Conference irnbru::scotland

Two stories in today's edition of "The Electronic Herald" highlight the 
ludicrous position in which we Northern British subjects find ourselves.

The first story is about how, if England were to be successful in its bid to
host the football world cup finals in 2006 and any of the home nations were 
to share in this success by hosting some games then the home countries 
could lose their "National" status within FIFA. The home "nations" hold a 
unique position in FIFA in that they can all compete individually although, 
under FIFA rules we should all play under the banner of a British team. 
Many FIFA members would like to see this special dispensation withdrawn.

The second story concerns four Scottish air stewards employed by British 
Airways. A Scottish industrial tribunal ruled yesterday that there is no 
difference between the Scots and the English and threw out their 
complaint of racial discrimination. 

If those unionist voting Scots who proudly belt out "Flower of Scotland" at 
Murrayfield and Hampden lose their outlets for their periodic misguided 
outpourings of "nationalism" then I hope they know who to blame. We are all 
British together. You can't have your cake and eat it!
    

re -1

Maybe Im a bit thick today but I can't actually follow what point you are 
trying to make, or what you feel is strange about the two news items.

Can you expand a bit?

Rgds, Steve.

Re .268

Steve,

Here is an explanation of why I chose to link these two stories.

The average Scottish football and rugby fans are fiercely "patriotic" in 
their support of their "national" team. The truth of the matter is that
these are not national teams at all. They are regional teams. Scotland, 
England, Wales and Northern Ireland are all part of the British Nation
and under FIFA rules we aren't allowed to have regional teams. We 
have had a special dispensation from FIFA to enter regional teams. There
is strong support for some sort of devolution or independence in Scotland
at the moment but nationalistic views are more evident in the stands of
Murrayfield and Hampden than they are at the ballot box. Many of these
supporters who shout in support of Scotland in a mere game fail to support
their country where and when it really counts. The Government is aware of
the independence/devolution feelings of the Scottish people at the moment
and they support "The" Football Association's suggestion that if England 
hosts the world cup finals then some of the matches should be played in 
Scotland. The Government realises that there is a lot of money to be made 
in hosting this prestigious competition and that they would be under 
pressure to share these rich pickings throughout the UK. One of the ways to
do this would be to have Scotland (and maybe other home countries too but 
let's not complicate this discussion further) host some of the matches.
FIFA, being under pressure from some of its members to make the home 
countries toe the line and only enter one British team, are threating to
capitulate to the demands of these other member states if England does not
host all of the games themselves. This leaves the English (sorry - UK) 
Government between a rock and a hard place: If England tries to placate 
Scotland by letting us host some of the matches then the home countries 
teams will cease to exist in the eyes of FIFA and there will be no vent
for the outpourings of Scottish patriotism. This, more than the �17 Billion
Scottish deficit, the Rosyth V Devonport fiasco and the savaging of the
Scottish Steel industry is more likely to focus this patriotism in the
direction of the ballot box.

The story about the air stewards' case of racial discrimination being 
thrown out because there is no difference between Scottish and English
just proves that despite what we would like to believe we are all indeed
British Subjects. Subjects of "The Crown" at that but let's not get into 
that argument at the moment! It may help if I gave more details of this 
story. The four air stewards had worked on Scottish routes and had accrued
38 years of experience between them. BA has various perks etc based on 
seniority and experience and the 38 years experience of these crew members
was being zeroed because they were being re-assigned to English flights.
The irony of this situation is that "if" there is no difference between 
Scottish and English then how did they come to lose their experience/
seniority placings? If we are all British people together then the land 
mass must be British and a flight in Scotland is the same as a flight in 
England so how does BA justify its actions? 

Scotland has only been united with England for 290 years. We still have our
own education and legal systems (even if they are being constantly
anglicised by Forsyth and his crew) and this judgement contradicts those
90 minute patriots who cling to the idea that Scotland is still a proud
nation. Scotland can be a nation again but not by singing about it four
or five times a year but by voting for it.
    

  Eddie,

  Thanks for the explanations. I follow most of what you are saying but
  I must admit there is one thing puzzling me. It is why you equate a
  totally independent sporting body, the FA, to the Government and then
  you go on to state; "If England tries to placate Scotland by letting
  us host some of the matches....." Why on earth does England need to
  placate Scotland if the FA manages to hold the world cup?

  But other than that I take your point.

  Rgds, Steve. 


Re 76.270

The exact quote from the Electronic Herald is:

         "Scotland had been suggested as a venue for group matches
          if England won the nomination, and there was strong
          backing for that idea from the Government. In effect,
          the politicians were looking to be even-handed in
          handing out British subsidies to more than just the one
          country."

In answer to your question, Steve, it wasn't me who linked the FA with the
government. It was the author of the article and having just read it again
I can see why.

Eddie.
    

    The following article appeared in today's edition of "The Electronic
    Herald". It appears here without permission.
    
            Anger as Banks calls for a UK national football team

          By CAMERON SIMPSON

          SPORTS Minister Tony Banks yesterday proposed that the
          home soccer nations merge into one United Kingdom team.

          He said: "We've never really punched our weight in
          international football. Scotland, Wales, England, or
          Northern Ireland, we're not actually doing too well.
          What other small country chops itself up into bits and
          then loses collectively?"

          Last night, however, the radical vision of Labour's most
          outspoken and football mad MP was dismissed by the
          Scottish Sports Minister, Mr Sam Galbraith, who said the
          merger would happen "over my dead body". The Scottish
          Football Association was equally scathing, while the SNP
          said Mr Banks "should go homewards and think again".

          Mr Banks, who has been in office for eight days, said
          Tony Blair had told him " 'to get in there and liven it
          up' and I'm going to do precisely that".

          He said he had long been an advocate of a UK team. "I've
          put it forward in the House before and tried it in early
          day motions. It gets some support, though there's a lot
          of opposition to it, but I want to see success.

          "We used to play a football league team where you could
          bring in anyone who played anywhere and there were some
          wonderful bloody teams that were better than the
          international team because the English League tended to
          suck in the best players. We used to be able to put a
          fantastic team out to beat the world."

          Should a UK team fail to materialise, Mr Banks had
          another idea up his jersey. Foreign players living in
          Scotland should, he said, be made eligible to be chosen
          for Craig Brown's squad - raising the prospect of
          Gascoigne, Laudrup, and Di Canio pulling on the dark
          blue shirt of Scotland.

          The thought had come to him as he was watching England
          slump to defeat in the World Cup qualifier against Italy
          in March. "It's not Government policy, but let's discuss
          it.

          "Why don't we talk about it?"

          He added: "The more we're involved in Europe we ought to
          think about if you (a footballer) play in this country
          for one of the league teams you can play for the country
          as well - in other words the right to play is not one of
          birth but one of residence.

          "Think about it, freedom of movement within the European
          Union, able to vote, let's start thinking the
          unthinkable - if people are playing over here and want
          to play for England and Scotland why not play?"

          England lost the game to a goal by Chelsea's Italian
          striker Gianfranco Zola.

          Banks, himself a Chelsea supporter, said there were a
          lot of Chelsea players looking at that match and saying
          "Do well Zola, do well". "Wouldn't it be better instead
          of sitting there and saying 'Do well Zola', when he
          actually puts your international team out, instead
          saying 'Zola, you're over here, we're paying your wages.
          Why don't you play for England?'

          "These are things worth discussing. It's no good saying
          it's rubbish, we can't do it. Why shouldn't we discuss
          it? My road here is to be a bit challenging and
          controversial and to act as a catalyst."

          Mr Galbraith said last night: "Some of the great
          overseas players who have graced our national game in
          recent years have been a joy to watch. However, there is
          nothing the Scottish public likes better than homegrown
          effort and sometimes a bit of homegrown success.

          "I think we will continue to see Scottish football hopes
          raised, dashed and raised again for a long time to come.
          As for merging our team into a UK outfit I join Scottish
          fans in saying over my dead body."

          The SFA, along with the associations of England, Wales,
          and Northern Ireland, has consistently battled with
          Europe's soccer bosses at UEFA to keep its independent
          status.

          Chief executive Jim Farry said any proposal to rob
          Scotland of its national football identity would be
          unlikely to find a place in a Labour manifesto north of
          the Border.

          Mr Farry also dismissed the prospect of foreign players
          living in Scotland being eligible to be chosen for Craig
          Brown's squad. He said: "We would not want John Collins
          playing for France or Paul Lambert playing for Germany.
          It cuts both ways."

          SNP sports spokeswoman Roseanna Cunningham said: "This
          is a silly idea and a complete non-starter. At the very
          time when the Scottish national team is working hard to
          qualify for the World Cup - cheered on by the loyal
          tartan army - the last thing it needs is this nonsense
          from the English Sports Minister." - May 15
    

I hate the thought that I agree with Tony Banks...

//atp