Conference hydra::dejavu

    Cindy,

    I was asked to make this submission to a Los Angeles-based group 
    of Consultants and Visionaries, one of whom has a contact on the 
    Clinton-Gore Transition Team.  The following paper is one of 31
    papers that was published in the full Presidential transition 
    document.

    You have my permission to post this in Notes Conferences of your 
    choosing.

    Richard Bradley  (SWAM2::BRADLEY_RI)

    =======================================================================

                     BLUEPRINT FOR PRESIDENTIAL TRANSITION
                       By Richard Bradley, October, 1992
    
    
                             PUTTING PEOPLE FIRST
    
    
    "Putting People First" is not just an apt and catchy slogan for a 
    political campaign.  It has been an important theme for my life's work.  
    It is, as well, a rational basis for the building of a civilization 
    worthy of the intelligence of our species.  People are, after all, the 
    reason for Highways and Bridges, Farms and Factories, Schools and 
    Hospitals, Legislatures and Lending institutions.  It is most 
    appropriate that we inaugurate this hope-filled new administration with 
    programs, demonstrations, speeches, awards and new institutional forms 
    directed at "Putting People First".  I wish to propose a few ideas to 
    help the new Administration begin its work.
    
    The first 100 Days we should establish the theme "Putting People First" 
    by having it be the keynote of the Inaugural Address. President Clinton 
    should make it clear that this Administration consists of a coalition 
    of people from differing political philosophies, the rich and poor, 
    from highly educated University Professors to Migrant Workers, from 
    CEO's to High-Tech Industries to Custodial Workers in hospitals.  We 
    are making a solemn commitment to re-dedicating American institutions 
    to their rightful place--ennobling, educating, feeding, our people: 
    providing meaningful work, insuring access to affordable healthcare, 
    restoring our children's right to plan for bright futures.
    
    Here are specific elements of this new thrust:
    
    INCREASING RESPECT FOR PEOPLE-RELATED PROFESSIONS:
    
    The President could establish a new category of awards for those in the 
    "People Professions".  The Presidential Medal of Freedom could be used,
    or an entirely new Award system could be established.  Let me give 
    examples:
    
    1.  Awards for outstanding Public School teachers, by category 
    (elementary, junior high, high school, small college, University).  We 
    must do more to elevate this area of public service so that more of our 
    "best and brightest" will choose this profession.
    
    2.  Human Sciences Exemplars.  It is time that the developments of the 
    new sciences of Psychology, Sociology, Anthropology be given a platform 
    to share what is now known about human behavior.  I would be careful to 
    avoid adoption of an "official orthodoxy" by the Administration, 
    surely, there can be ways to find topics where there is reasonable 
    consensus, or where several dominant points of view could be shared 
    about such important topics as:
    
    	 o Child Rearing
    	 o Self-esteem
    	 o High-Performance Teaming
    	 o How to manage the marriage relationship
    	 o Menopause and its psychological consequences to the marriage 
    	   relationship
    	 o Multi-cultural neighborhoods in U.S. cities: what to do, and 
    	   what not to do
    	 o How to work with persons suffering with mental illness
    	 o Optimal performance for Seniors: how to get the most from our 
    	   wise men and women
    	 o Dealing with Technophobia: how to increase computer literacy
    	 o The efficacy of Meditation and Relaxation techniques
    	 o How to reduce and ultimately eliminate the reason for Urban 
    	   Gangs
    
    This, of course, is a minute sample of the kinds of people-issues that 
    cry out for informed discussion, well-formed research, and most 
    importantly, a significant platform where our brightest, most 
    accomplished social scientists can share what they've learned.
    
    3.  Healthcare Awards
    
    Hundreds of thousands of Healthcare workers risk their lives every day 
    caring for us.  Emergency Room Technicians, Nurses, and Physicians 
    place their very lives in jeopardy handling a bleeding, unconscious 
    patient--who just might be infected with a dangerous, infectious 
    disease.  How do we thank the people who save our lives?  Surely this 
    is a category of awards that is long overdue.  Here are suggestions for 
    Award categories:  I hesitate to describe them, as I assume that once 
    you read the names describing their work, you'll understand why this 
    written offering is too short to give adequate explanation for their 
    extraordinary contribution to helping our civilization work.  The Nobel 
    Prize for medicine would never be given for their service, but just ask 
    the Mother of the little boy who can walk because of the dedication and 
    love of a Physical Therapist, or the Mother whose Neonatal Nurse has 
    nursed her 2-pound "premie" into smiling, healthy infant hood.
    
    	 o Pediatric Nursing
    	 o Obstetrics
    	 o Psychiatric Social Work
    	 o Rehabilitative Medicine
    	 o Oncology
    	 o Surgical Specialties (Ophthalmology, Neurosurgery, Limb 
    	   Restoration, etc.)
    
    4.  New Developments in Human Functioning
    
    For about a generation, pioneers of the human spirit have been at work 
    building a vast body of work: books, practices, games, techniques-- 
    known to a tiny minority of our country.  This work encompasses the 
    full range of human functioning from psychological health, to 
    nutrition, martial arts, meditation techniques, body therapies, dance, 
    sports, music, arts and much, much more.  Some of the developments 
    spawned by what is often called, "The Human Potential Movement" have 
    quietly entered the ordinary Corporate life via Sensitivity and 
    Encounter Groups where they now form the basis of "Teaming Training".  
    Many sales organizations now offer training in Neuro-linguistic 
    Programming (NLP)--a linguistic and behavioral technique also 
    championed by some psychotherapists and courtroom lawyers.
    
    Esalen Institute (Big Sur, California) is credited with being a seminal 
    place for the development of what is now known as "The Human Potential 
    Movement".   Michael Murphy's legacy of 100 plus acres of land 
    overlooking the Big Sur Coast was converted to a place where some of 
    the most accomplished pioneers of human development showed off their 
    life's work.  Among them were such as Fredrick "Fritz" Perls, 
    Buckminster Fuller, Paul Tillich, Abraham Maslow, Aldous Huxley, Rollo 
    May, Carl Rogers, Will Shutz, George Leonard, Ida Rolf, Moishe 
    Feldenkrais, and many, many others.  Some of them are still with us and 
    could help to present to the American people many new and old ways of 
    becoming fully human.  Here's some of what is available to help Put 
    People First:
    
       o Michael Murphy, Founder of Esalen Institute, has just published 
    	 a book, "The Future of the Body: Explorations Into the Further 
    	 Evolution of Human Nature" (Jeremy P. Tarcher, Inc.).  It is as 
    	 scholarly work, some 15 years in gestation, which explores the 
    	 full range of human capabilities and suggests how we, as a 
    	 species, might consciously make shifts in human consciousness as 
    	 significant as the development of language.  Surely a goal this 
    	 important deserves exploration (not endorsement by the 
    	 Administration).  Transforming our culture into one fomenting 
    	 human evolution, rather than one whose crowning glory is the 
    	 development of fast cars and $10,000 watches just might be worth 
    	 our while.
    
       o Alternative Medical Practices.  This ranges from Vegetarianism 
    	 and its permutations to Acupuncture, Vedic Medicine, Body 
    	 Therapies of a wide variety (Rolfing, Massage, Acupressure, and so 
    	 on), Herbal medicine, plus combinations of some of the above with 
    	 conventional Western medical practices.  Surely, it is worth 
    	 exploring less expensive medical intervention, to allow our people 
    	 a wider range of choices.
    
       o Human Performance Training.  It is abundantly clear that 
    	 American industry is not getting the best from our people.  Most 
    	 Managers have not been exposed to training processes which elicit 
    	 optimal performance from our people.  They don't know of the 
    	 existence of small companies such as Sportsmind (Seattle, 
    	 Washington), where a well-hewn mix of Human Potential processes 
    	 are used (for example) to train thousands of people at a very 
    	 large Communications company.  They are learning through real 
    	 experience how to become committed to accomplishing difficult 
    	 tasks with diverse people.  Recently (August, 1992), I saw several 
    	 women, well in excess of 200 pounds leap from the top of a 65-foot 
    	 high pole, onto a trapeze bar--accompanied by the cheers and 
    	 encouragement of their team members.  They will never be the same 
    	 as before they began that course.  In addition, they attended 
    	 sessions covering such topics as:
    
    	      - Dedication to Customer
    	      - Choice
    	      - Awareness
    	      - Accountability
    	      - Honesty and Integrity
    	 
    	 Sportsmind sent their own Consulting Chef to the Resort where this 
    	 four and one-half day training took place to insure that the 
    	 participants learned how to live on a low-fat, nutritious diet, 
    	 with 7:00AM stretching exercises and cardiovascular walks.  Are 
    	 there any companies in our country whose performance could be 
    	 enhanced through training such as this?  The White House could 
    	 catalyze our industrial (and Governmental) institutions to 
    	 increase the performance of our people.  It is essential in this 
    	 age of Global competition and to save scarce government dollars in 
    	 an age of gargantuan deficits.
    
    Putting people first is the theme; the intention is to infuse the 
    American people with a new enthusiasm to build the world's best 
    civilization.  The Clinton-Gore Administration can get this process 
    started by providing a forum for our exemplary performers in the 
    "People Professions", by giving them a platform for enlightening the 
    rest of us, by awards which indicate what we value: highly developed 
    human skills, courage, patience, caring, love of our fellow humans.  
    There are thousands of us ready to help.
    

    
                                  Biography:
    
                              Richard L. Bradley
                         Digital Equipment Corporation
                              1909 Glendon Avenue
                         Los Angeles, California 90025
                               FAX (714)850-3114
    
    I was born in Chicago in 1942, and was raised during my formative years 
    in a Public Housing Project in South Chicago, Altgeld Gardens.  Despite 
    this inauspicious beginning, I received a superior education from 
    dedicated teachers at George Washington Carver (elementary and high 
    schools).  I then attended Howard University in Washington, D.C., where 
    I obtained a B.S. in Psychology.  Immediately after school I joined the 
    IBM Corporation where I remained for twelve years.  I learned computer 
    technology through IBM's internal schools, as there were no University 
    courses at that time (except at MIT and similar places).  Over the past 
    twenty eight years of working life I have worked at four computer 
    companies (IBM, Honeywell, XEROX and for the past eight years, Digital 
    Equipment Corporation).  I now manage Software Consultants in Southern 
    California for Digital.
    
    My avocation for the past twenty years has been Human Potential 
    Facilitation.  I was initially trained at the Topanga Center for Human 
    Development (Topanga, California) by Psychologists and Psychiatrists 
    who had received substantial training at Esalen Institute.  I have also 
    become affiliated with Esalen Institute over the past twenty years 
    where I have attended workshops in Gestalt Therapy, Neurolinguistic 
    Programming, Aikido, Arica, Meditation, Leonard Energy Training and 
    much more.  I have also assisted in training with George Leonard, my 
    principal mentor over this period.  Through my association with Esalen 
    I developed a relationship of long-standing with Neuropsychologist Karl 
    Pribram, now director of the Brain Research Laboratory at Radford 
    University, (Radford, Virginia).  Pribram is credited with the 
    development of Holonomic theories of Brain organization and Perception.  
    This work has been of special importance to me over the past fourteen 
    years.  In 1979 I developed a Workshop to explain this extraordinary 
    work to my friends and associates.  I am currently developing a 
    Workshop on the subject of Diversity, which I expect to present at 
    Esalen Institute.
    
    I recently was a Guest Lecturer for Betty Friedan at the University of 
    Southern California in her program, "New Paradigms of Leadership".  I 
    am currently writing a book on Diversity with a working title, "Toward 
    Diversity and Unity: American Forges a New Destiny".

        If you  liked  the  Carer  Administration  y'll  LOVE the Clinton
        Administration!
        
        Steve Food_for_the_Greys/Reptoids

       Let's see....what Will the similarities be between the Carter and 
    Clinton administrations, failed rescue attempts? Micro-management?
    Great international accords signed followed closely thereafter the
    assasination of one of the signees? Russia sending us all of THEIR
    criminals this time? The signing away of the Mississippi river passage
    rights? Hmmmmmmm.
    
    Drew.
    

I find the discussion of politics in this notesfile to be even more
offensive than the petty bickering on the spirit/no-spirit debate. Please stop.

    Re .4

    I'm not so sure. After all politics and politicians have about as much
    connection with reality as some of the stuff that gets actively
    discussed in here.

    Jamie.

    Re .4
        You're probably correct. In the future I shall refrain from making
    any political commentary in this notes-file, satiricly.et al.
    
    Drew
    

    
    I think your note entry was very interesting and gave some great
    information. HOWEVER, one of the reasons I love reading this notes file
    is because I learn about other peoples spiritual quest.  
    
    I as a Sales Rep most of days are very stressful....
    
    Reading this file relaxes me....could we keep this file on more of
    spiritual side???? The thought of Clinton gets me a little stressed
                                                                      
    Just a thought............
    
    
    Mindy
    
    

I think the topic would be interesting and pertinent if we looked at 
it with a spiritual perspective - as a product of the sixties do 
Clinton and Gore carry those values many believed in then (love, 
brotherhood, peace, etc)?  Do they believe that YCYOR?  

I suspect the paper in the base note was written by a person with a 
deep spiritual/metaphysical/holistic background (I could be wrong) and 
that the paper could be used as incentive for us all to take back our 
own power and help create the reality many/most here would like to see.

FWIW

Ro

    1771.9
    
    OK...Then lets look a little deeper and examine what this all means...
    
    Are you aware of "initations?"  Presently the US is moving into its
    second initation; meaning it has made it decision to move towards the
    light of spirituality...What if any effect will this ADMINSTRATION have
    on us and our planet???
    
    I wasn't even born til 1965...what were the sixties like and do you really
    see any similarities of today??
    
    Thank you for letting me see the other side of this
    topic................
    
    
    Mindy

    I am dismayed that anyone would take this to be a document of
    "political advocacy".  That was not the intent when I wrote this, and
    I'm sure it was not Cindy Painter's intention when she re-posted the
    essay.  As I mentioned in the essay itself, I suggested that the
    Clinton-Gore constituency would be made up of people from many
    differing points of view from very Conservative to very Liberal
    (whatever those terms mean).  The point of my submission was simply to
    make some suggestions to the Administration about how they could "Put
    People First".  Among those suggestions was that they could give a
    forum for a book written by Michael Murphy, Founder of Esalen
    Institute, entitle, "Future of the Body..."  That work is an
    exploration of practices, many of them "spiritual" in nature, which
    will help human beings gain extraordinary functioning in twelve areas:
    1. Extraordinary perceptions of things outside the organism.
    2. Extaordinary somatic awarnesses and self-regulation.
    3. Extraordinary communication abilities, including the transmission of
    thoughts, volitions, and ecstatic states through extrasomatic
    modalities.
    4. Superabundant vitality
    5. Extraordinary capacities to alter the environment
    6. Extraordinary movement abilities
    7. Self-existent delight
    8. The supreme intellectual capacities evident in some works of genius.
    9. Volition exceeding ordinary will, which unifies separate impules to
    produce extraordinary actions.
    10. Personhood that simultaneously transcends and fulfills one's
    ordinary sense of self while revealing one's fundamental unity with
    others; and individuality based upon the extraordinary capacities
    listed above.
    11. Love that transcends ordinary needs and reveals a fundamental unity
    with others.
    12. Alterations in bodily structures, states and processes that support
    the experiences and capacities just noted.
    
    I hope this helps you in understanding this document.
    
    Richard Bradley

    Ahhhh, the promise of Utopia yet again ......

>    Ahhhh, the promise of Utopia yet again ......
    
    Hey, it's worth a shot, eh ?   I haven't seen a better ideal
    to strive for lately.  :-)

Hi Richard B!!!  (.11)

from my note .9 in this string:

<<I suspect the paper in the base note was written by a person with a 
<<deep spiritual/metaphysical/holistic background (I could be wrong) and 
<<that the paper could be used as incentive for us all to take back our 
<<own power and help create the reality many/most here would like to see.

Guess I was right!  8^)

Thanks for elaboration in .11!!!

Hugs,

Ro

                       
    Re.4
    
    Mike,
    
    You can always use the next unseen key.
    
    Re.8
    
    Mindy,
    
    >I am a Sales Rep most of the days are very stressful....
    
    Then you would especially benefit from some of the suggestions and ideas 
    put forth in the paper.  
    
    You might even consider a trip to Esalen, Kripalu, or any of the many 
    retreat centers that emphasize mind, body, and spirit.
    
    Re.11
    
    Yes - to what Richard said.  The election is over.  Finished.  What
    politics are there to talk about?  Never once were the words "Democrat"
    or "Republican" mentioned.
    
    The paper is about spirituality.  It's not about politics at all.
    Michael Murphy (Esalen founder) has appeared on the front cover of 
    "Yoga Journal".  Clearly a spiritual (mind/body/spirit) publication.
    
    What is spirituality good for, if we can't infuse it into our daily
    lives outside of this notesfile?   
    
    What a wonderful opportunity this is to really take all the excellent
    concepts and ideas we've been discussing here for many years, and
    actually get them into the mainstream.  Even better that one of our own
    participants here is actually doing something about it in a fairly
    major way. 
    
    For those of you who assumed that the paper was only political based on
    reading just a few paragraphs, I encourage you to go back and read it
    thoroughly.  Then after you've read it entirely and have comments you'd
    like to make, we (Richard and I) encourage you to do so.
    
    Cindy

    re .15
    
    Bravo, Cindy!

    Nice going, Ro!!
    
    :-)
    
    Richard B

    Strange, the latest Nostradamus book, the absolutely real and dead
    genuine interpretation of the great man, says that Bush was going to
    win. Do you think that I was robbed?

    Jamie.

    The reference was to your mention of Nostradamus in .19

    Jamie.

    Cindy,
    
    Your suggestion to `just UNSEEN' past uninteresting notes ignores
    a quirk of DECwindows:  It reads in an *entire* note, and you can't
    do a NEXT until it has finished.  Thus, you are cavalierly advocating
    that people waste a great deal of their time.
    
    I assume that you are unaware of this effect, and that you would
    have been more thoughtful if you had known.
    
    						Ann B.
    
    P.S.  Y'all, please convey this information to other conferences
    where the same breezy advice is being given.

    
    Thank you, Ann.
    
    Cindy

    re .25
    
    Then you'd lose all the other advantages of windows, to say nothing of
    not having the mouse to play with  ;-)

    
    re: .15 (Cindy P.)
    
    Technically, the election isn't over until mid January.
    
    
    guy

    Thank you Cindy for posting this Essay and thank  you Richard for
    writing this item.
    
    It seems to me that this type of Notes activity would be embraced in
    the sanctuary of Dejavu.  I guess there's the Spiritual and the
    less-spiritual among the population.  Indeed, it is helpful to have the
    less bouyant spiritualists in our fellowship to keep a tether on the
    topic.  Then again it hinders our ability to soar freely.
    
    This topic is ripe with "soar-ability".  Let's cut those lines that
    anchor us and allow us the birthright to be free.
    
    Thank you,
    
    Tony
    (silent noter, sometimes.)

    Thank you silent Tony.  It's good to be appreciated.
    
    Richard B

    You don't have to personally experience "raw brutality and truth" to
    have no conscience about acting!  Or perhaps that's what is sick in US
    society these days?
    
    Brian

    .31 confuses me -- unless the author is unaware that the "faith"
    of our Founding Fathers was atheism and agnosticism, and that
    Franklin has *many* mistresses, and Jefferson at least one.
    
    						Ann B.

    re: .33, Ann,
    
>    .31 confuses me -- unless the author is unaware that the "faith"
>    of our Founding Fathers was atheism and agnosticism, and that
>    Franklin has *many* mistresses, and Jefferson at least one.
    
    I doubt it's quite that simple.  There's a tradition of
    'illuminated politics' that takes different forms and reflects
    the expression (or attempt to express) of certain kinds of spirituality 
    in political ideology.  In the case of the founding fathers of the
    U.S., many people believe, I think with some good cause, that the
    transcendentalist movement (most often linked to Emerson, et. al)
    was very popular with this group, and showed up in many of their
    decisions in various ways.   I don't know how significant you can
    say this influence is, or what the significance is, but it does 
    make sense to say that they were men of 'faith,' though they were
    also not particularly sympathetic to the Churches of the time.
    
    						kind regards,
    
    						todd
    

                             
    .31 has disappeared, and I didn't get to see it, however here is some 
    information which may be helpful...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following presidents were Unitarians:  John Adams, John Quincy Adams, 
Thomas Jefferson, Millard Fillmore and William Howard Taft.  

Abraham Lincoln also attended Unitarian churches on occasion and has this 
to say about Christianity (from the brochure "Introducing Unitarian 
Universalism", by John Nicholls Booth):

    "I have never united myself to any church, because I have found
     difficulty in giving my assent, without mental reservation, to the
     long, complicated statements of Christian doctrine which characterize 
     their Articles of Belief and Confessions of Faith.  When any church 
     will inscribe over its altar, as the sole qualification for 
     membership, the Saviour;s condensed statement of the substance of
     both Law and Gospel, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all 
     thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy mind, and thy
     neighbor as thyself,' that is the church I will join with all my
     heart and soul."

Lincoln was censured by evangelist Peter Cartwright for attending the
Universalist church in Urbana, Illinois.  Lincoln remarked to him, 
"Parson, I used to think that it took the smartest of a man to uphold
and defend Universalism, but now I think differently, for I believe it
to be the easiest doctrine to defend that I have yet heard.

Also, it was the Universalists who were the first body of religionists
to go on record as opposed to human slavery in any form, in 1790 in
Philadelphia.

    re: .36,
    	That's interesting, Cindy.
    
    	I don't know anything for sure about it, but it get the impression
    	that many of the early U.S. political founders were also
    	masons, or members of other somewhat universalist and
    	'illuminated' fraternal organizations as well.  Seems to me there are 
    	legends about the symbols on the dollar bill being based on symbology 
    	culled from these groups.  I've never had the chance to read about this
    	in depth, but it sounds intriguing.  Anybody know anything
    	about it can mail some pointers me or post a response ?
    
    						kind regards,
    
    						todd

    Shades of the Illuminatus Trilogy. :-)
    
    PJ(Who knew that stuff about the Prezes and BF.)

              
    Re.37
    
    Todd,
    
    I was just reading about that a few weeks ago, and the book is:
    
          "Ancient Voices, Current Affairs", by Steven McFadden.
    
    Excellent reading.  In it he talks about the mason connection.  
    
    Steve also wrote, "Profiles In Wisdom", which profiles 10 Native
    Americans and their views of the past, present, and coming times.
    Got a very good review by the NY Times, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.
    
    Cindy 

	EPISCOPALIAN             	    UNITARIAN
	    George Washington 		        John Adams
	    James Madison                       John Quincy Adams
	    James Monroe                        Millard Fillmore
	    William Harrison                    William Taft
	    John Tyler
	    Zachary Taylor                 METHODIST
	    Chester Arthur                      James Polk
	    Franklin Pierce              	Ulysses Grant
	    Franklin D. Roosevelt               Rutherford Hayes
	    Gerald Ford                         William McKinley 
                                                
        PRESBYTERIAN                            
	    Andrew Jackson                 BAPTIST
	    James Buchanan                      Warren Hardin
	    Grover Cleveland          	        Harry Truman
	    Benjamin Harrison                   Jimmy Carter
	    Woodrow Wilson                      
	    Dwight Eisenhower              QUAKER
						Herbert Hoover
	DISCIPLES OF CHRIST                     Richard Nixon
	    James Garfield                      
	    Lyndon Johnson                 CONGREGATIONALIST     
	    Ronald Reagan                       Calvin Coolidge
                                            
	LIBERAL                		   DEIST	
	    Abraham Lincoln                     Thomas Jefferson    
                                           
	CATHOLIC            	           NONE
	    John Kennedy                        Andrew Johnson    

        REFORMED DUTCH
	    Martin Van Buren
	    Theodore Roosevelt
	
	[ George Bush and Bill Clinton are not included in this list ]

    
    Re.41
    
    Thank you!
    
    Do you have a source for that information?
    
    Cindy

    
    	The information for .41 was gathered from an old
    	World Almanac of 1986.
    

    I read that Clinton is a Southern Baptist and Hillary is a Methodist,
    and has often been a Lay Preacher (Watch the jokes!)
    
    To Montalvo:  Let me again clarify my offering.  I suggested that we
    make use of what knowledge there is to assess how to solve or better
    handle many social, interpersonal, and even intrapersonal issues
    through having the Administration sponsor Conferences, Town Halls,
    Speeches, Presentations, etc. that enable Social Scientists including
    Psychologists, Sociologists and Anthropologists to tell us what they
    know.  Then, it is up to people like you and me to decide what makes
    sense to do.  It seems to me that there is apalling dis-use of
    scientific information in the Social Science realm.  WE (you and I) are
    paying for all of this research at Colleges and Universities--and,
    then, not using it.  That strikes me as singularly dumb.  Why is it
    that I've not yet read a single quote by an Anthropologist about (for
    example, the Los Angeles Riots or the Rodney King incident?  
    
    And finally, Clinton has proposed that all of us engage in "Life-long
    Learning".  I have made my offering of topics that I think are worth
    learning more about.  What do you think?
    
    Richard B

RE:        <<< Note 1771.35 by HAMER::MONTALVO "everything just happens" >>>
    
�    likewise, all the 'ideas' and 'programs' detailed in .1, seem to be
�    a wish list. reality may dictate his programs.
    
    Given that there are those amongst us that regard "reality" as
    something elastic, to be moulded, changed, and directed at one's whim,
    perhaps you'd care to expand that remark.
    
    Laurie.

HAMER::MONTALVO 
    
    >the only way to stop crime, is for us to stop using drugs. period.
    
    So that stops theft, violent crime, fraud?  
    
    Drugs have been used since the beginning of time by Shaman and seeker
    alike.  Drugs don't cause crime.  People cause crime. 

    
	Crack was a response to the WOD.  It's a form a cocaine.  If
        drugs were decriminalized and cocaine were available in it's
        natural form... there probably wouldn't be any problems with it...
        same with marijuana.  Criminalization creates more problems than
    	the drugs themselves do.  The profit and the violence that goes
        with it comes from drug laws not drugs.  The same thing happened
    	during Prohibition.... the same violence.... similar conditions.
    

HAMER::MONTALVO 
    
>    the religious right will not allow drugs and prostitution to be
>    legallized. why? morally reprehensible?
    
	This country isn't a theocracy.
        
>    the mafia was started when prohibition was instituted.
>    it has not gone away.
    
         The mafia existed before prohibition was instituted.
    
>    what do you think will happen if they legalize drugs?
    
	 What happened in other countries where the decriminalized drugs?

   re: 48
    
    
    
    
    To quote John Kennedy "ASK NOT WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU BUT
    WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR COUNTRY."
    
    The whole message of the New Age Culture is that YOU ARE
    RESPONSIBLE...take responsibility for what is happening around. 
    
    If you look at past Presidents we all know that nothing has ever
    changed.  It is up to all of us to take action.
    
    People are divided into three groups:
    
    Those who make things happen,
    Those who watch things happen,
    Those who asks, "What happened?"
    Which one are all of you??
    
    

    
    
    	To convert a piece of coal into a diamond requires
    	extremely high pressures and temperatures for a very
    	long time.  If the piece of coal could talk, it would
    	probably complain how much pain and suffering it is
    	going through, but at the end, it would probably say
    	that it was worth it.
    

    Re .50

    >What happened in other countries where the decriminalized drugs?
         
    Well Mary as you know I live in the in Amsterdam, fairly near the
    centre. Soft drugs, cannabis usually in its resin form, can be bought
    and sold in certain ,"multi-media centres" and some "Coffee shops". In
    these establishments you will not be encouraged to "try something a bit
    stronger".

    However we have one of the worst hard drug problems on the continent of
    Europe. My apartment is currently above a "Rehabilitation centre" this
    is where they send those who have burnt their minds out with drugs to
    keep them off the streets. The place operates office hours, but alas
    its clientele are not really aware of the exact hour of the day, or day
    of the week for that matter. Thus it is not unusual to be wakened at
    02:00 on a Sunday morning by one of them trying to get in.

    My car has the radio in the glove compartment, Harry's, like everyone
    else in our neighbourhood, is removable. Anyone leaving a visible radio
    in the car will come back to find a smashed window and the radio
    missing. The lock on the trunk of my car is disconnected, it can only
    be opened from the inside. I got fed up replacing the lock every few
    months.

    In my experience liberalizing drugs in no way reduces the drug problem.

    Now back in Edinburgh, where I come from, they got a nice left wing
    local government who decided to take a lenient stance on drugs.
    Edinburgh now has one of the biggest drug problems in the UK, and has
    the highest per capita incidence of AIDS in the country.

    Jamie.

    I can't see how your situation is any worse than it is here though,
    Jamie... and in many ways, it seems better.

    >> and in many ways, it seems better.
    
    Without speaking for Jamie, I have to disagree most strongly.  The
    situation as I have experienced it personally in the 'problem' areas of
    Edinburgh is not something you'd want transplanted even into the USA.
    Spain legalised cannabis some years ago (is it still legal?) and the
    tourist industry soon cottoned on to where the users were and advised
    travellers to stay well clear of those towns.  Kind of destroyed some
    towns' economies.  Now, if you'd like to come live down in DC, I'll
    swap houses with ....
    
    brian

DCOPST::BRIANH::NAYLOR 
    
>    Without speaking for Jamie, I have to disagree most strongly.  The
>    situation as I have experienced it personally in the 'problem' areas of
>    Edinburgh is not something you'd want transplanted even into the USA.
    
     Well ... I don't know.. but maybe the situation in New York or L.A 
     would give Edinburgh a run for it's money.
    
>    Spain legalised cannabis some years ago (is it still legal?) and the
>    tourist industry soon cottoned on to where the users were and advised
>    travellers to stay well clear of those towns.  Kind of destroyed some
>    towns' economies.  Now, if you'd like to come live down in DC, I'll
>    swap houses with ....
    
     :-)... reefer madness, huh?
     I don't think that most American towns would suffer very much
     economically due to a lack of tourists who were afraid of marijuana 
     smokers..., brian ... just an observation on my part though..
     pot smokers aren't known to be an especially violent crime-ridden
     bunch.
    

    
    Drugs have been used since the beginning of time by Shaman and seeker
    alike.  Drugs don't cause crime.  People cause crime. 

Mary,

I've seen you put this argument forward before in the Gratefull Dead notes 
conference and you seem to think that (at least there) that all these Native 
American Medicine Men use drugs in their ceremonies. This view is way off 
base. It is a view that was started by the piece of crap called Carlos 
Casteneda novels. These are not a picture of native american spirituality. 
They are MADE UP stories. This is a small use of Peyote by North American 
Native Americans in ceremony but this is very, very small. As someone pointed 
out to you there, most traditional North American Medicine Men do NOT use any 
drugs of any kind.
	When you say, used by the Shaman, that may be true (for South 
America), but that is so different from what you are talking about. This is 
not the average person. This is someone highly trained for at least 10-20 
years and perhaps a lifetime, and it is done in a sacred manner, in the right 
kind of atmosphere. It is NOT something done everyday and it is NOT something 
done for a "high" or to escape anything, as they are used in this country. 
And also, it is a specific ceremonial substance, and not things like 
marijuana or cocaine. These are poisions, not things to "see."
	I'm sorry if I sound angry but there is this false "New-Age" view of 
Native American Spirituality that crap books have started.

Sam

IAMOK::BOBDOG::GENTILE 
    
    Sam,
    
    Pot seeds have been found in ancient megalithic sites.  Shaman have
    been around for hundreds of thousands of years .. they are not just
    a part of today's native American culture.
    
    >When you say, used by the Shaman, that may be true (for South 
    >America), but that is so different from what you are talking about. 
    
    Not so very different in my opinion.
    
    >And also, it is a specific ceremonial substance, and not things like 
    >marijuana or cocaine. These are poisions, not things to "see."
    
    Marijuana isn't a "poison" at all, Sam.  That's not true.  It's a plant
    and it is something used to 'see'.
    
    >I'm sorry if I sound angry but there is this false "New-Age" view of 
    >Native American Spirituality that crap books have started.

    You can be as angry as you want, Sam... it's a free country, you know?

RE: .59 (Mary)

>    Shaman have been around for hundreds of thousands of years .. they are
>    not just a part of today's native American culture.

    In fact the word "shaman" refers literally to the "priests" (for lack
    of a better word) of an ancient North-Asian (e.g., Siberian) religion.
    It is applied to Native Americans only metaphorically or by
    generalization.

				    Topher

    That's what I ment.. :-)

>    Not so very different in my opinion.


Sorry, it took so long for me to respond but my new job has me very, very 
busy. It is very different in my opinion. I don't think you read what I said 
in my note. Yes, it's true that there are Shamans all over the world and that 
they use plant substances to "see". But as I pointed out in my note, this is 
very, very different then the use of drugs here. It couldn't be more 
different. If you study the shaman's traditions you will find that the "drug" 
is used only in special circumstances, in order to do something or find 
something out for the good of the people, not for oneself. It is only used by 
someone who has trained in it's use for 10 years or more. The big difference 
is here people are taking drugs totally to avoid things, not to find things. 
It's used for pleasure. Also, people have not been trained in the use and 
what could possible happen. It's very different in my humble opinion.

Sam

    Gee, I wonder what this has to do with the Clinton Administration? 
    Perhaps, Bill should have said that he inhaled.
    
    Richard B

    	As an aside, since we're digressing here anyways.... :^)
    
    For those interested in possible reasons for *controlled* 
    decriminalization of drugs, you may want to read "Storming Heaven" by
    Jay Stevens. Fairly scholarly history of drug usage, with an emphasis
    on LSD's history, esp. "the 60's", Tim Leary, etc.
    
    Good documentation of results such as 90% alcoholism cure rate
    after 1 "controlled" LSD trip, etc., lend some credence to the
    perspective of decriminalization of some drugs for controlled 
    psychotheraputic use, irrespective of one's feelings re:
    "self-medication". 
    
    Again, not an opinion, merely a pointer to some very enjoyable reading
    which can provide further food for thought on this issue. 
    
    				Happy Holidays,
    
    					chuck
                                                              

    There was a good show on re: LSD and its resurgence last nite on the TV
    show "48 Hours".  It talked of that controlled setting where an
    alcoholic was cured.  It also showed people who claim to have been
    damaged by their excessive amount of "trips".
    
    In regards to the CLinton administration I have high hopes but I read
    something by gossip columnist Liz Smith this morning which I found
    disturbing.  She said Linda Bloodworth and her husband (forgot his
    name) were close friends of the Clintons.  They are also TV producers -
    one of their shows is Designing Women.  Well, it was said that CBS was
    considering firing them versus Delta Burke when that issue became a hot
    media topic but a senior official at CBS received a call from Gov.
    CLinton stating he hoped they would agree with the producers to get her
    off the show.  Now, how much of this is true, I don't know, but if it
    is I don't find this very kosher.