Conference hydra::dejavu

    We all wake up and go have a party together to celebrate.

To anyone who knows and plans to answer this note, if it's not too much
trouble, would you happen to know what the price of DEC stock will be?
Also, what will they be serving for lunch?

Thanks.

    The stock will have split several times by then... but of course by
    then everyone will be manifesting unbridled abundance so stock itself
    and the money system itself will have no meaning.  They were just part
    of The Games.
    
    Tacos, fresh vegetables, meat roasting on an open fire, lots of breads
    and cheese, and fresh fruit and an assortment of nuts will be served.
    
    The Dead will be playing (of course) ... The Dead always play in
    Valhalla.

    My birthday is May 9, will I live?

                               
    Re.3
    
    Mary
    
    >meat roasting on an open fire...
    
    Eeeeeeeeee!!!!!!  [But you knew I'd say that. (;^)]
    
    There isn't any prana in meat anyway.
    
    I hope that we evolve to such a state that total non-violence is 
    the only possible scenario.
    
    Cindy

    :-)
    
    Then you'd better stop torturing all those vegetables, Cindy.
    
    You know ... they did studies with some plants and plants are
    conscious (in their own way) and aware (in their own manner).
    
    Face it.... life feeds upon life and even if we evolve to the point
    where we can photosynthesize light, we'll probably find out that
    light itself is alive (I suspect so already :-)
    
    So I figure that I'll be grateful to that life that feeds me and not
    waste... but I can't pretend that plants are not alive. :-}

Re .3, Mary, you're right about the stock -- who'll care? You're lunch
prediction sounds fabulous. And don't forget the glass of wine!

    Ok .... wine and beer and mead for the elders... :-)

    Because I choose not to, of course. :-)  I'm fond of them.  I've fond
    of my plants too but I realize that I have to eat something... that
    is the nature of reality after all.

VAXRIO::MARCOS                                        
    
>So the difference is that you're fond of your pets but you're not fond of 
>cattle so eat them.

    No... the difference is that I *choose* to eat cattle so I do, but I
    *choose* to not eat my pets (for irrelevant reasons) so I don't.
    
>I wonder if the The Society for Animal Protection celebrates their achievements
>with a barbecue.
    
    (good one, Marcos) :-)

    
    I don't have pets.....so I can eat whatever I want, right? ;-)
    
    
    guy

    Well.... within reason.... :-)
    
    Your wife might not object to being eaten, but your neighbors would
    probably prefer a polite hello and a wave.

                                                         
    Mary,
    
    The plants are alive - that's true.  That was even measured quite a 
    while ago by an scientist from India - Bose was his name.  Burbank did 
    a lot of work in this area too...complete with talking to certain cacti
    to convince them to give up their thorns because he wouldn't hurt them
    (reference to both of the above: "Autobiography Of A Yogi", by
    Yogananda).
    
    Meat doesn't contain prana.  Plants do.  That's why this diet is far 
    better for you.  Along with all the other countless reasons (killing
    animals is really gruesome, for starters)...but this is the main one.
    
    The best of an *energetic* life to you,
    
    Cindy

    You're probably right, Cyn... I was a vegetarian myself for years and
    years.  It's much easier to go oobe that way.

    re: .14 (Mary)
    
        8-)
    
        Pleasant thoughts! (Now if only I had a nice, compliant wife or
    wife-substitute!  :-}  )
    
        More seriously, perhaps, as Lazaris has told us, the biggest
    danger for vegetarians is in their negative egos.  That is, that
    they feel superior or more spiritual because they are vegetarians.
    While Lazaris has indicated to us that we are "working towards"
    vegetarianism, it is not necessarily what is best for each one
    of us.  And it is not indicative of superior spirituality.
    
    
    Frederick
    

    I love these predictive dates-thing! ;-}
    
         My whole life has been filled with these.  When I was a kid
    (so very long ago to many of you  ;-)  ) the first big date that
    was predicted was 1960.  That was the year something-or-other 
    within the Catholic church was going to be revealed.  Well, 1960
    came and went.  The next biggest date (and there were others,
    much smaller in import) was perhaps 1984.  But, as we've all seen,
    1984 has come and gone.  The harmonic convergence, another date,
    has come and gone.
        I certainly don't speak for everyone, as witnessed by those 
    among us who continue to be "woo-wooed" by dates, but I, for one,
    am very jaded by "predictive dates."  I don't give a shit, anymore,
    about some goofball off in the nether reaches who predicts something
    for some date.  Not only are they invariably wrong, but I resent their
    cheap hit of power, getting others to notice them and to attach 
    significance to their beingness.  Rather, I would prefer to recognize
    that *I* am in charge of my reality, and that *I* can make things
    different.  *I* do not need to comply with the dates that others
    attach significance to.  If it makes sense to me, then I'll listen.
    If it's a source that has a pretty significant predictive accuracy,
    then I might also listen.  That would indicate that those parts of
    my reality to which I have allowed the mirroring effects are 
    functioning as desired or intended.  Those others, flukey kinds of
    off-the-wall predictions, I'll dismiss as manifestations of 
    my negative ego.  It would seem to me that others would be well
    off by similarly making those discernments.
    
    Frederick
    

re: base note.

May be I would take Samadhi on that day.  

Over the last so many years "End of World" was predicted so many times. It sure
caused panic for many.  A full scale nuclear war seems unlikely now that USSR
is broken into pieces.

girish

� That's why this diet is far 
�    better for you. 

Hogwash! You should have heard a friend-of-mine's doctor complaining bitterly
about vegetarians, and the amount of vitamin & mineral pills he has to dish
out continually to people extenuating a sub-nourishing diet... my girlfriend
is a vegi and she has been suffering from fainting fits, strange mood swings
etc.. and has recently been for a blood test, I'm just waiting for the
"inevitable" diagnosis of the (underlying) cause.

Animals have done nothing for me, I'll eat 'em. Anyway, they taste good.

Sorry to sound harsh, but the aformentioned `aloofness' of vegetarians really
pisses me off. For an example of "righteousness" look at the Biblical example
where devils were cast into the herd of pigs, who then ran into the river and
drowned! So much for the importance of animals vs. righteousness...

As for plants, they *are* every bit as sensitive, probably more so than stupid
animals, and tactile and capable of incredible displays of "intelligence" across
species. For long examples, experiments, discussion - see "The Secret Life Of
Plants". You're doing as much harm ripping a vegetable to shreds as you are
killing cattle, you just feel righteous because you can't hear *it's* screams,
out of sight, out of mind? 

We all kill to feed. It's nature.... "Eat As Thou Wilt" :-)
								- JIM CAD*

    Just finished a couple of books by Ruth Montgomery, and she maintains
    that her "guides" (the folks who guide her writing) have told her that
    the earth will shift on its axis sometime around the year 2000. As a
    result of this there will be tidal waves, earth masses will shift, and
    climates will change. She also maintains that scientists will be aware
    of this beforehand, and that the governments will act to help minimize
    the damage (e.g. moving people to inland locations).
    
    I really liked her books, thought they were on target, but am skeptical
    about this and other doomsday predictions.
    
    /Thorgan

    Oh gee... I never take this stuff very seriously... I figure...
    pick a date (any date at all) and let's see what we can make happen.
    
    Of course,... I prefer parties to disasters so I manifest Dead concerts
    in Valhalla instead of massive upheavels.
    
    You guys worry too much anyway.

    re .24
    
    I am also a strong supporter of the Bill of Rights, wal... and will
    defend it always.

HAMER::MONTALVO 
    
>    "see the lillies of the field. they neither weep nor spin. for they
>    think not of the morrow."
>    
>    forget about tomorrow.
>    you may not be around to see it.
    
    You just discover mortality, -wal?

    I'm sure I saw an article in a medical periodical a little while ago on
    the subject of vegetarians and their diet. If I remember rightly, they
    came to the conclusion that there was a VERY close link between being a
    vegetarian and being bent.
    
    Seems like a logical assumption to me !!
    
    barry
    

    re: .27 (Wal)
    
        Forget about tomorrow?  I don't think so.
        Letting go of the past is virtually mandatory (not forgetting,
    but letting it no longer be the reason for doing things.)  Living
    in the now is certainly the way to live.  But the motivation for
    life is in the future.  As Lazaris says, it is the future which
    determines the present against a backdrop of the past.
    
    Frederick
    

    
    Re.28
    
    Marcos,
    
    Why can't I enter further details in this conference?
    
    Cindy
         

                                                           
    Re.22
    
    Jim,
    
    I have been a vegetarian for several years now, and I feel and look far
    better than I ever have.   I have many friends, mostly from India, who
    have been vegetarians all their lives, and are not suffering from any
    of the symptoms you state.  However, their cuisine is such that it
    includes all the necessary vitamins and minerals...something that
    really hasn't made it to the west yet.
    
    If you want to eat meat, fine.  That's up to you.  *I* choose not to 
    eat meat.  I chose this out of having consumed meat all my life, and 
    as a result, I look and feel at least 10 years younger than my age.  
    
    Getting back to my original point which you completely missed - there 
    is no 'prana', or 'life force' present in meat.  At the very same time, 
    I also do not eat canned anything (vegies, juice, etc.) because there 
    is no life force present in such things either.  When I ingest too many 
    things that do not have an abundance of prana present, I feel very 
    nauseous.  This goes for alcohol, refined sugar, caffeine, and many 
    other things.         
    
    There are (still) lots of cigarette smokers on the planet who call 
    non-smokers 'aloof', even though it's been proven (except by the 
    tobacco companies themselves, for some odd reason) that smoking is 
    not good for your health.  Eventually the same will be shown re: meat
    consumption.  I feel your comment was very unfair, btw. 
    
    There are other, more esoteric reasons for not consuming meat...I may
    go into that later on if time allows.
    
    Wishing you an *energetic* life,
    
    Cindy

    
    Re.30
    
    Barry,
    
    >being a vegetarian and being bent
    
    Translation please.  (;^)
    
    Cindy

    
    Re.22
    
    Jim,
    
    And as for your comment about plants being sensitive, go back and read
    .15 - where I had already stated that.  Apparently you missed it.
    
    Cindy

    RE: .33 (Summoning up the energy to type) :)
    
    Cindy,
    	I didn't miss your point on "prana" - I didn't have an issue with
    it - it was the "improved diet" bit (or those words, can't check the
    exact phrase on this VT right now)... here in the West (UK, US???)
    the most part of vegetarians are going about it all wrong and as such
    are having a sub-normal nutritional diet, and wasting valuable NHS
    time getting free pills...
    
    	I don't have an issue with it if it's done "passively", I just get
    fed up with the veggies who make comments everytime *I* eat meat. Why
    can't they just butt out! I don't make an issue out of their food,
    but I do make an issue out of a bad attitude... and of course, I know
    not all veggies are like this, but IMHO too many are. 
    
    	What right do they have to condemn me for *my* choices, I will
    suffer, not them - and that's fine by me. It also grates a bit that
    since I am going out with a veggie I get fed up with all the petty
    issues like (putting something on a tray in the oven) - "It hasn't had
    meat on it, has it?". (Buying a pizza)... I have to get a ****ing bland
    veggie one, etc. etc. because of *her* foibles & money restrictions.
    
    	I don't agree with the evolvement argument, IMHO Man was designed
    to eat meat. That's it. The pros and cons type arguments can go round
    and round all day depending on which side of the fence you sit, so
    maybe that's fruitless.
    
    	As for elephants and horse (Marcos), isn't that a little oblique as
    an argument? Just pick a couple of vegetarian animals, and say they
    "look energetic" :-) Very odd! If I was running away from a carnivore
    I'd say that was pretty energetic too! BTW - I think that horses are
    one of the stupidest animals to grace the earth, and just don't like
    them at all. Elephants - I don't know.
    
    	What about my points about plants, I was being serious about the
    silent suffering. Read "The Secret Life...", it's easily available
    from libraries etc... a very good (interesting) read. If the extremist
    veggie faction took a hard line on no suffering they'd actually starve
    by inclusion of the above evidence in their model...
    
    	*Personally* I see vegetarianism as a pointless exercise, but wish
    other people would leave me to my meat, (in silence). After all, what
    are those sharp teeth for?
    
    	Sorry about typos etc... (chuffing VT!)
    
    								- JIM CAD*

re:      <<< Note 1705.36 by FORTY2::CADWALLADER "Reaping time has come..." >>>

�    meat on it, has it?". (Buying a pizza)... I have to get a ****ing bland
�    veggie one, etc. etc. because of *her* foibles & money restrictions.
 
    You don't have to do anything your don't want to do.
    In this case, *you choose* to get a certain type of pizza because
    you wish to avoid an argument, or you wish to please her, or you
    think that maybe she'll do smething nice for you, or...
    
    You could always order two small pizzas, one your way, and one hers...
    And I'm sure there are lots of other alternatives, too.   Don't
    blame your unsatisfactory pizzas on your girlfriend.
    
    Of course, this probably belongs in another note.
    
    FWIW,  I don't think anyone has been able to replicate the
    results described in _The Secret Life of Plants_.
    Which does ot mean that plants are not sensitive...
    
    /bruce
      
     
 

I had been a vegetarian while I was a child.  I was very healthy then.
When I came to U.K. I was advised to eat meat so that I will have the 
necessary immunity against T.B.  I was hence a non-vegetarian for a while.
Since the last 10 years I have again become a vegetarian.  I don't wish to argue
which one is better.  My father was a vegetarian and he lived healthily upto the
age of 82.  My mother is a vegetarian and is very fit for her age.  My wife has
always been vegetarian and she is in excellent health. 

What I never knew was that I was bent most of my life, and that my parents
and have been bent all the time, as one of the previous noters implied.

girish (born of Indian parents)

                        
    Re.36
    
    Jim,
    
    About the pizza thing...
    
    If you because nauseated every time you ate something, and someone
    close to you knew about it, how would you feel if they kept trying to
    get you to eat it anyway?  To me, this is a total lack of basic
    respect, politeness, and consideration.  
    
    If you have a problem with vegetarians who give you a hard time about
    eating meat, then direct your feelings toward them at the time they do
    it - and not me in a public conference. 
    
    Cindy

    (Guess who's waiting for his X-Windows to come back!) :)
    
    The non-reproducible results were one of the issues described in TSLOP,
    due to plants being sensitive to agreeable and agressive/non-caring
    investigators. There was a lot of talk of plants "fainting" as if the
    input stimulus/threat became overpowering in cases where they were
    threatened by the prospective investigator's nature.
    
    >Pizzas...
    
    I failed to mention that I am a student with big money problems so I
    was annoyed at perhaps having to buy two whole pizzas, and hence miss
    out on meat-pizzas-only offers etc.... for such a petty issue as
    vegetarianism. Our only local out-of-hours food source is (bloody)
    Domino's Pizza, rather expensive. We don't even have a local chipshop
    or takeaway and live many miles from town centre.
    
    I wasn't blaming her as such, just *another*, Oh no! Not *that* again
    sort of case. I am so ingrained into eating and enjoying meat that I
    really can't relate to people who won't even eat from the same area
    that meat has been, how petty can you get?
    
    								- JIM CAD*

    
    Re.36
    
    Jim,
    
    About getting NHS pills - I think it's far more preferable to get
    vitamin pills than to have to go through coronary bypass operation.
    A lot less cheaper too. 
    
    Where did the 'evolvement' comment come from?  I never brought that up.
    
    Cindy

    Cindy,
    
    	I take your points, *but* I responded just because another "veggie"
    responded to someone's reference to meat IN A PUBLIC CONFERENCE. That
    is what got my goat, not your ideals nor your reasoning nor your
    particular tastes... just the someone-having-a-go-at-someone-else 
    personal views as if they "know better", which is exactly why you are
    probably annoyede at my replies.
                    ^
    		    |
    		oops!!!
    
    All points taken in BTW - I am listening, I just don't agree with a lot
    of it. Maybe we could use it to start a (non-personal, non-aggressive)
    discussion? ...
    
    								- JIM CAD*
    

    Cindy,
    	Evolvement was in Marcos' note, I couldn't easily edit my reply on
    VT though...
    								- JIM CAD*

�So it isn't the diet that is wrong but the way some people are going about it.


Yes, I'd agree with that.

YIKES! Sorry, must dash! See you all tomorrow...

								- JIM CAD*

    This is just to say that I can personally vouch for Cindy feeling good.
    (Give her a hug some time. Sorry Cindy I just hadda say it. :-)  )
    
    Looking very good and healthy. She positively glows with energy. She
    also takes care of herself. I have seen Cindy eat pizza. It is veggie
    pizza. I like the artichoke pizza real good myself.
    
    Personal preference on veggie vs. nonveggie? I eat meat. I've tried to
    slow it down, but do not have the strenght to stop entirely yet. I will
    find the way to do so eventually. I still like the taste a little to
    much.
    
    PJ

    Well guys,
    
    Since it's my party and all.... :-)... how about if there is a wide 
    variety of food available and everyone can eat what they want?
    
    Ever notice how the more things change.. the more they stay the same?
    :-)
    
    p.s.  I'm not sure but I seem to remember a couple of famous vegetarians 
    who died of bowel or stomach cancer?  Adele Davis comes to mind and
    Joe Neary.  I could be mistaken though... 

    
    Though there are some prophecies that state the world (Earth) will end, 
    I believe that they are all speaking about the ending of the structures
    of our world.  These structures are no longer working and need to go.
    I also believe that the Earth itself is shifting into a new alignment
    and that we may go through some physical upheavals.  I don't believe
    that the Earth and all of us are going to be annihilated!  If each of
    us takes the time to heal ourselves, these changes will not be as
    difficult as some say they will be.
    
    Re: vegetarianism, meat, etc.
    
    Part of the Polarity Energy Balancing program I took last year focused
    on nutrition.  Specific food groups vibrate with specific elements
    within out energy field.  This is a fascinating study and one worth
    considering.  Some foods are considered 'dead' and others are 
    considered 'alive'.  Eating freshly picked fruits, nuts, grains,
    legumes, and vegetables is the most alive diet one can have.
    I have not switched over to a full vegetarian diet (it takes time to
    break old habits! ;^)), but I'm on my way.  It all just makes so
    much sense to me.
    
    Carole

I've heard from reliable sources that parts of California near the San
Andreas fault will end. Or at least become unviable.

    Now I know the END is near.I ask a question about the end of
    the world and I get replies about DIET.
    Ho God nobody listen anymore.
    Ariel

  Perhaps you missed the answer in the replies so far, because you
  didn't hear what you wanted to.

    Animal's don't have souls IMHO.
    
    		"And tears mirror all things good..."
    			"And in blood flows all things bad..."
    
    					Foretold - Six Comm/Death In June
    
    								- JIM CAD*

    re: .52 (Mike)
    
         What's a "reliable" source?
    
    re: .55 (Wal)
    
         Sounds good, but that's not correct.  If life were about only
    the now, it would spiral to a halt.  Think about this a little while.
    If life were only about the NOW moment, life would become a
    still-frame; life would stop and become a frozen instant.
         Now then, since I've gotten your attention, ;-)  ,from where
    does life emanate?  If it were the past, it, too, would soon cease
    to function.  Why?  Because there would be a constant need/desire
    to return to that which was previous.  Do you want me to repeat these
    words again so that it sinks in or can you read them again until
    it makes sense?  hint: if life were about an attempt to "come from
    the past," then all energy, living or inanimate, would be retreating
    from the source from which it came.  I don't think it takes a great
    mind to realize that we would once again wind up with nothing.
        It is the FUTURE which determines the present.  It is the FUTURE
    which all the cells in our body are working to attain.  It is the
    FUTURE from which all dreams which direct our lives come from.  It
    is the FUTURE which pulls us to strive to be more, to be greater,
    to see, to hear, to do, to have...in short, it is the FUTURE which
    gives us any sense of life and any hope of fulfillment.
        SO, I will repeat, holding onto the past is counter-productive
    to a useful life.  Living in the now, without the benefit of a 
    future to draw into, is also counter-productive to life.  Though
    the yogi's and others of Eastern thought may work very hard to
    find the "NOW," what they are achieving is only the sense of the
    void (which is there) but without any real chance of LIFE!  The
    only useful, helpful way to live life is by attaching to the most
    positive future you can draw from (and there are infinite potentials)
    and then letting that future direct your present NOW.
    
    Frederick
    

Wallie,

I must be in a disagreeable mood! :-)

I'm afraid that I don't agree again with assumption, conciousness = soul
being present.

I think dreams are a rather tenuous area to use as "proof" too, since we can
only speculate as to what they are. If they are, in the main part, the process
of the brain clearing out it's "waste" for the next day then I would say it
is a pretty good bet to say that most (all) sentient life has dreams (of a sort),
i.e. an amoeba probably doesn't have much "mind waste" :-)

I think the soul is part of the complex make-up of a sentient being, but that
part which is unique in beings possessing that certain spark of "divinity".
Animals may have supra-physical elements to their make-up, but I don't 
beleieve personally, that they have that *crux*, the soul. In fact, without
wanting to stretch the scope of discussion, I would doubt whether they even 
have that much supra-physical makeup.

What do other people think? Have other people source which go one way or t'other
on the matter. (I ask since I remember reading in several sources that animals
do not have souls, but true to Jim Cad* form can't remember where!)...

								- JIM CAD*

...for those not decided (and even for those who have decided but are curious at
another point of view) I highly recommend a short book called The Souls of
Animals written by Gary Kowalski. He is also the minister of our U.U. Church
here in wonderful (but cloudy!) Burlington, Vermont.

re.51  Carole that was wonderful.. thank you.  I really felt the
	person that started this  note  was looking for a serious
	answer, and yours I certainly agree with.

	take care,

	Mikki

    Hi Mikki,
    
    Good to see you noting again.
    
    Missed you,
    
    Roey
    

    
    Good to hear from you again Mikki!
    
    Carole

HAMER::MONTALVO 
    
    
    It seems to me that time is a tool that The Creator uses to implement
    change within Itself.  Isn't that what time appears to be... a way of 
    viewing and indicating change?  
    
    
>    it is desire which programs your mind into thinking that it is from the
>    future. our minds create the problem and then it searches for
>    solutions. why? because no-one is happy as they are. 
    
     I'm happy as I am.
    
>    it is greed. it is desire. it is self-is-hness. it is the idea that the
>    world revolves our wants and desires; that exsistance has to give us
>    whatsoever we want. it is our desire to be god, to have controll over
>    everyone else but our-self-s. it is to make the "other" like
>    our-self-s. it is because we do not know our-self that we think that we
>    will find it in the other.
    
     I disagree with you, wal.  Things are the way they are because that's
     how they are supposed to be... don't you think?   I mean.. change is
     movement... growth is change... life moves and grows and changes
     always.. that's what makes it alive.
    
>    we are all hypocrits.
    
     Nah... you're too rough on God :-)  We are what we are and we do what
    we can to learn to be the very best of what we are... that's what The
    Games are all about, no?
        
>    why not just accept what ever comes? if death comes it does not matter:
>    we will be no position to argue the merits of symantics.
     
     The choice is yours. :-)
    
>    if there infinite potentials then how can there be one present if it 
>    the future which makes the present? if there infinite futures, then
>    there must be infinite "nows" and infinite passes. and they all reside
>    in the mind. sounds like delusion to me. schizophrania.
    
     That's your label... your choice of perspective.. of attitude.    
    
>    "we" are the center of exsistance. why? why does everything have to
>    revolve around our understanding? what is man? what is the meaning of
>    life? why bother answering questions which have no answer? why is the
>    sky blue? why is the grass green? what is green? what is sky?
    
     "Wake now discover that you are the eyes of the world."  
     
     Finding your right place in the grand scheme of things is nature's way of
     maintaining harmony.... don't you think?  I mean... we are *conscious*
    ... we are alone among nature's creatures to be conscious in the manner
    that we are... perhaps our role is to be the consciousness of reality..
    that reality may perceive itself.. may evaluate itself.. and ultimately
    may change itself if it so wishes.
    
>    all life is special; whether one thinks it has a "soul" or not. even
>    stars are alive. 
>    as to amoebas....
    
     Yes... I agree... everything has a soul...we are all part of The Whole
     ... of The Divine.. each with our own function and role to play.    
    
     So I guess I just agree with everyone..... as usual. :-)    

    re:    <<< Note 1705.70 by VERGA::STANLEY "what a long strange trip it's been" >>>

    
�     So I guess I just agree with everyone..... as usual. :-)    

    Mary, What's come over you??  :-)
    You must be listening to some good music lately!
    and getting ready for BG...
    
    /bruce
    

    Must be.. :-)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
>    time a tool?
>    Which the Creator uses to implement change within Itself?
     
     Yea... sort of makes sense ... don't you think? :-)
    
>    time is of the mind.
>    it is a social convention/invention.
    
     So is most everything else.. at the quantum level ..it seems to me that
     way... all very illusive...  matter becomes a wave and what is a wave?
        
    >what year in the chinesse calendar is it? in the jewish? what year was
    >it in Star-Trek the next generation? 
    
    What difference does it make?  You're treating time as if it were real
    ... as if it were an object instead of a perception.
    
    >if some space people landed and said it was 876r807qw3p fkwCEJG;
    >What would that mean to us?
    
    It would tell us that they also have a manner in which they calculated
    change... it would indicate to us that this way of perceiving change
    is a Strange Attractor perhaps... that change may be perceived in 
    different ways by different beings/planets/cultures.. but all seek to 
    measure it to bring order into their perception of their own existence.
    That's what it would mean to me anyway.
    
>    2] what if one doesn't believe in god or creator?
    
    What if one doesn't?  So what... I mean.  Does your existence depend
    upon whether I believe in you? :-)  Does England exist even though I've
    never been there?  What is.. is..
        
>    3] i'm happy that you disagree. in fact i am ecstatic. 
    
    Why? 
    
>       no, i don't think. ha. ha. ;-)
>       change is movement. to see that change is to be in the "now". to say
>       that it changed is to be in the mind. 
>       you describe a "process".
 
        It is a process.  
    
        You talk as if the now is a solid timeless place
        but anywhere that life is... change is.. and anywhere that change
        is..  people find ways to measure and perceive that change.. to
        incorporate an understanding of it into their perceptions.
        It is how we learn and grow... it is how we benefit from
        our experiences.  
    
        >4] The Game? with rules? there can only be one winner. all others are
        >then losers. {i'm enjoying this. really.}
    
        I make the rules in my game. :-)  
    
        My rules are that everybody wins... all of us.. the species.. the
        planet... reality itself.  Because we survive.. Life Itself wins 
        ... and that means God wins as well... :-)
       
       The good guys always win, didn't you ever watch cowboy movies when
       you were a kid? :-)
            
        >5] what is reality?
       
        You are.  
    
        I am.
    
        >we all have different realities. there are as many realities as
        >there are minds.
    
        So?
    
       >so what is the real reality?
    
       All of them.  Which is the real petal on a flower?  Which finger
       on your hand is the "real" finger?  Which of my sons is my real son?
       :-)  
        
>    philosophy 1.01 has been brought to you by the good folks of dejavu.
>    and you all thought this was serious....
>    naaahhhhhhhh. 
    
     :-)    
    
>    well, Ariel? still thinking/fearing tomorrow? 5/5/2000. hummmm....
    
    Ariel will learn to play too. :-)

     Ok.ladies and gentlemans,
    thanks for your replies,but to me still,I don't know how
    to swim.So I'm taking a vacation day today,see if a could find a
    serius teacher(a female).Well guys/gals keep me up to day.
    see you later.
    Ariel.

    Marcos,
    Thank you for your entry.I printed and take it home with me so I could
    read it all in peace.
    Marcos 35 years ago I was born and I was born DIABETIC.Ever since
    5 years old I been taken insulin and having somewhat of a diet.So when
    I heard things about diet is like if you heard about,your car insurance
    is going up again.I know a good diet is good and I admire people who
    are in a diet and stick to it.But like me sometimes you get tired of
    it and then you start having problem when you don't fallow it.
    So Marcos,If you have an diet and you follow it,you are a good man.
    I'm not.
    Ariel
    
    

Note 1705.0                
                                        
  -   Can anyone in this note could tell me what really is going to
  - happend on this date 5/5/2000 ?.That is as the view point of the
  - scientist.And if there is another note on this topic let me know
  - and delete this one.
  - Thanks
  - Ariel
  ------------------------------------------------------------------  
  Ariel,

  I asked my friend.

  He told me that on the 5th of May in the year 2000 the new Moon
  will be on one line with the Earth, the Sun and Saturnus.
  On the other side of the Sun five planets are moving away from
  the Earth.
  Uranus will be on one line with the Sun and in a straight angel
  on the line of Saturnus, Jupiter the Sun and the Moon.
  
  It is the disturbing power of Uranus that gives the invisible
  gravity line of the Sun, the Moon Saturnus and Jupiter enough
  power to move the polar axes of the Earth.

  Based on that power the Sun activities will be about 17 percent
  higher than today.
  
  On the other hand you have to realize that we are moving to that
  situation. In other words, the 5th of May wouldn't be much
  different than the 4th of May.

  Does this answer your question?

  Regards, Wim. 
  
  

    Well, somebody thinks THE END OF THE WORLD will be on Oct. 28th of this
    year, 1992. I've seen posters around Nashua advertising the 2nd coming
    on that date. They also include a quote from Ecclesiastes. (sp?) don't
    remember it offhand, but it was a familiar one when I read it. It'll be
    interesting to see what happens on that date. It's a Wednesday BTW.
    Bummer, just before payday and Halloween. 
    
    I didn't read the fine print, so I'm not sure who posted these things.
    I'll look closer tomorrow. 
    
    PJ

    OCT. 28 is my sisters b-day, mine is OCT.31.  Guess we won't get any
    older this year if thats true.:-)

re: 1705.82 
WMOIS::CONNELL 

>    Well, somebody thinks THE END OF THE WORLD will be on Oct. 28th of this
>    year, 1992. I've seen posters around Nashua advertising the 2nd coming
>    on that date....

	I suspect, although I haven't verified it, that the October date
	may be when Rev.Moon is released from prison.  Most of the people
	in DC who are handing out those flyers seem to be members of his
	church.

	-Art

    Rev. Moon HuH? It figures. And here I thought it was gonna be something
    good. Not to knock those who believe in him or there choice, but I have
    my oppinion on that subject.
    
    PJ

          Thanks for all yours input,
    NOW WE'RE TALKING.
    I understood that the earth was going to shift,because the weight
    of the polar ice.???????
    thanks guys/gals
    Ariel.

    
    So how come the axis didn't shift during the last couple of
    ice ages?

    Hello,
    
    Forgot to tell you, the axes did shift;
    80.000 years ago from Yukon to the Greenland Sea,
    50.000 years ago from the Greenland Sea to the HudsonBai
    15.000 years ago from the Hudson Bay to the present position.
    
    Regards, Wim.
    

    
    You mean magnetic axis, maybe? I was thinking of polar axes--they wander
    (so the North star wasn't allways), but they don't jump around.
    A coupla months ago Scientific American had a chart of the shifts
    in the magnetic axes over the past few million years; there were
    more shifts than I could count. I dunno what difference it makes if the
    magnetic axes shift--maybe some confused birds and bacteria (and
    orienteers)? 

    The idea that `too muc' ice at the poles will cause a change in the
    axial tilt comes from the very bad `science' fiction novel, _The_Hab_
    _Theory_.  It is utter nonsense, requiring that the center of gravity
    for Earth not be in the center of the earth.
    
    The magnetic poles, not the axial poles, are the ones that have changed
    in the past.
    
    						Ann B.

    
    (Someday I'll put everything into just one note...)
    
    Besides, there's no correlation between the dates for the shifts
    given in .88 and the ice ages.

  Re .90 (Ann)

> The idea that `too much' ice at the poles will cause a change in the axial
> tilt comes from the very bad `science' fiction novel, _The_Hab_Theory_.  It
> is utter nonsense, requiring that the center of gravity for Earth not be in
> the center of the earth.
    
  I've never heard of the above but unless the author was a contemporary of
  Verne, Wells, & co. [rather than 50's/60's/70's pulp], I suspect that his/her
  story was based on this argument being used as explanation for biblical
  catastrophes by a pseudoscientific priest at the turn of the century. 
  (If not, maybe the priest read SF ? :-)

  [ FWIW, there has been a fairly recent revival of polar flips as a serious
  hypothesis but all it gained the proponent was a change of 'rating' from
  "mainstream/serious" to "fringe/crank". ]

> The magnetic poles, not the axial poles, are the ones that have changed
> in the past.

  To be pedantic, all that is known is that the location of the magnetic poles
  apparently changed between specific igneous events : the probable mechanism
  is still under discussion, the effect on the planet & inhabitants at the
  time of a change is not known, and it is only the fact/belief/hope that the
  planet is inherently stable that suggests that the field moves under a static
  shell rather than the shell [=axial poles] moving within a static field 
  [=magnetic poles].  People will only 'know' after the next event.  For my
  part, if I'm still around then I'd love to find out what *really* happens :-)
  
  Frank

    Re: .94 Marcos
    Thank you for entering that, Marcos, for all to read and ponder.

    re .82
    
    Well, today is Oct 28th and it looks like we are all here.  I saw the
    Nashua flier as an advert in the Boston Globe this week and the fine
    print says 1999 I believe, not 1992.  
    
    I heard on the radio that thousands of people in Korea were gathering
    at a church because the end of the world or Rapture was supposed to take
    place this morning Boston, Ma. time.  Also, there were people gathering
    in Africa for the same reason.
    
    Anyone have any more info?  
    
    Karin

    
    Do watch Mark Russell at 8pm (EST) on PBS (Channel 2 in Boston).
    He might have something to say about it.  (;^)
    
    Anyway, it'll be worth it just to hear what he has to say at the last
    minute about the Nov.3rd elections.  Should be good!
    
    Cindy

    Re .96

    >I heard on the radio that thousands of people in Korea were gathering
    >at a church because the end of the world or Rapture was supposed to take
    >place this morning Boston, Ma. time.

    Yes and I also heard that they turned on their priests when they found
    out that yet again they had been fed lies. Some people are amazingly
    gullible.

    Jamie.

    Jamie,
    
    What *I* heard was that they did NOT turn on their priests when they
    found out that yet again they had been fed lies.  This just confirms
    your closing statement.
    
    							Ann B.

    Well the TV (I'm not sure which channel all the American ones sound the
    same to me) reported that they were turning on their priests. It
    appears that they had sold all their possessions, houses included, and
    given the money to the church. Now the Church has shut up shop.

    It is a con game that is as old as time. The wonder of it is the fact
    that it works every time. Public flogging of the Charlatans might deter
    future would be conmen.

    Jamie.

If public flogging/executions/amputations don't stop alcohol/murder/theft in
Muslim extremist countries, what hope is there that such would deter a few
conmen (or women) in these quasi-religions?  Jamie's opinions are widespread
enough that there is little risk to the perpetrators.

Like the murder rate in Washington DC would decrease if the vote had been in
favour of the death penalty.  To quote a famous personality, "Bah, humbug!"

Brian

    Brian, there is one heck of a difference between public flogging and
    capital punishment. I strongly resent your implication that I am in
    anyway in favour of capital punishment. Please do not put words into my
    mouth.

    Jamie.

    Who's putting words into who's mouth?  All I'm pointing out is that no
    matter what the level of punishment, it invariably doesn't work.  Your
    suggestion that people be publically flogged has been tried, is still
    being used today in some parts of the world (and was used by us British
    in India for many years, remember?) and has no effect on the level of
    crime whatsoever.  You jumping to conclusions that I'm saying you're in
    favour of capital punishment just shows how you misunderstand the
    arguments presented to you.
    
    Brian

    Am I therefore to take it that you are unable to differentiate between
    capital and corporal punishment?

    As to your assertion that corporal punishment does not work I find it
    to be directly at odds with my personal experience. When I went to
    school corporal punishment was very much in vogue. Persistent offenders
    were brought to the front of the class and received several whacks on
    the palm of the hand with a belt. I found that I tended to think about
    the pain an action would get inflicted on me before I did it and this
    modified my behaviour patterns.

    Jamie.
                

                                                         
    Jamie,
    
    That may be true for you....that you actually think about things
    beforehand.
    
    However, observing society as a whole, there are vast numbers of 
    people who don't think about these things.   If they did, then
    theoretically we wouldn't have any more crime in the world.  Not
    to mention the spread of a certain disease which currently has no
    cure due to unwillingness to take certain precautions (leaving 
    accidental contamination aside for the sake of discussion). 
    
    Cindy

    I think there are also many "criminals" who believe that they are too
    clever to get caught.

    Vlad the Impaler had a severe code of punishments for transgressions.
    
    It was stated that a naked virgin, carrying a jewel-encrusted
    goblet, could walk from one side of his domain to the other without
    being molested in any way.
    
    It is generally believed that the above two statements are causally
    related.
    
    						Ann B.

    Oh.
    
    Yes, Vlad the Impaler was the historical antecedant for Dracula.
    Let's not bother to comment on that -- in this string -- shall we?
    
    					Ann B.

Well(!) they had the lash at my school, and it didn't seem to make any difference
to behaviour - except that some kids had a tally of who had had the most
lashings. 

The classic style was to get the culprit to balance a jotter on his wrist, so 
that the teacher could whack with all his strength and the culprits wrist would
be protected, but his hand would not. Entertaining yes, effective no.

Dougie

If corporal punishment really worked, then there would be no crime as the mere
threat of the punishment would be sufficient to deter any would-be offender.
If capital punishment really worked, then there would be no capital offences
committed as the mere threat ..........

Ergo, they are the same.

I was punished (corporally) only once at school - for a witty comment not
appreciated by the teacher at the time.  I "got away with" other things for
which punishment was proscribed.  Others were caught and caned.  The deterent
made no impact that I could detect on the offenders - "Just part of the risk
you take" was the general comment, before continuing the same behaviour.
We could open up a whole argument here about the merits of caning a 9 year old
boy in front of his peers for an early expression of satire?  I felt aggrieved
that those who laughed as heartily as I received no similar treatment, but
learned along the way that life is seldom "fair".  However, I digress.

Is Jamie conditioned by the threat of physical harm, and could we exert such
pressure through a notes file to force him to conform to ideas, about which he
has expressed extreme doubt or cynicism?  :^)

Brian

    Re .110 Brian
    
    >                                  ... I "got away with" other things
    > for which punishment was proscribed.
    
    This is correct, sice punishment was forbidden for these things, you
    hsould have gotten away with them. Or did you mean *prescribed*? 8^)
    
    Wearing my pedantic hat today......
    
    
    Marilyn

    OK, OK :-) :-)

    
    The book, "Polar Shift" stipulates that the world will shift 90
    degrees on that date.
    

    I found this little snippet whilst gathering this morning's news. I
    thought I would put it in this file and did a title search. Do you know
    that we have no less than four topics dealing with the end of the
    world.
    
    Jamie.
    
    RTw  11/15 0006  PEOPLE

    End of the world is off

    KIEV (Reuter) - Ukrainian police announced that the "end of the world"
    prophesied by the Great White Brotherhood cult had produced an
    anti-climax, with no incidents reported.

    "Today is off. The end of the world is hereby cancelled," Deputy
    Interior Ministry Valentyn Nedrehaylo said. "The sun is shining and the
    brothers and sisters are in prison in good health." Police last week
    detained the cult's two main leaders. But the pair insisted in
    detention that the mass "resurrection" of the cult's "living god,"
    Marina Tsvygun, and nearly 150,000 followers would go ahead without
    them.

    "Today is even calmer than usual," police said.

    REUTER

    

    
    There's an upcoming TV program on the biblical prophecies pertinent to
    the end of the world, tomorrow March 1st on ch.4 (Boston) 8:00 PM EST.
    It might be interesting !
    
    /todd

    Each evening as I drive home I listen to the BBC World Service news
    bulletins. There are two, one is World News and the second is British
    News. As the first bulletin ends the news reader solemnly intones, "And
    that is the end of the world news!"  But the world never seems to end.

    Jamie.

    Jamie, the news never seems to end either.
    
    PJ