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Conference hydra::dejavu

Title:Psychic Phenomena
Notice:Please read note 1.0-1.* before writing
Moderator:JARETH::PAINTER
Created:Wed Jan 22 1986
Last Modified:Tue May 27 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2143
Total number of notes:41773

894.0. "jack the ripper" by ADVAX::MARSHALL () Mon Oct 24 1988 14:38

    Just curious but did anyone see the series on Jack the Ripper that
    ended last night? The final theory is that the queen's doctor was
    the ripper and it was a cover-up, and opinion's?
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
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894.1Very well done!FOOT::STRIJCKER7th in the family and the biggest!Tue Oct 25 1988 04:455
    Yes, I saw the series. I liked them as well.
    
    I suppose it could be true. This probably accounts for its quality.
    
    Wivine. 
894.2<< well.....>>ANT::MPCMAILTue Oct 25 1988 10:136
    I saw the movie, and it was good. It kept you thinking  as if you
    were inspecting the murders and putting everyone on trial. I do
    not really think that the Doctor to the queen did it as much as
    the man who led the social parades through the town.
    Other than that, I enjoyed it very well.
    
894.3I vote for the doctorRVAX::SMITHTue Oct 25 1988 12:2010
    I also saw it and enjoyed it very much. I think they went to great
    lengths to show just how involoved the investigation was and how
    complicated the case.
    
    Now that everyone connected with the case has been dead for a good
    many years, it would be nice if England would reveal the truth if
    in fact the movie was correct in its assumption.
    
    
    Steve
894.42c worthCIMNET::PIERSONMilwaukee Road Track InspectorTue Oct 25 1988 12:2423
    I saw it (in parts).  I agree the "production values" were high,
    I suspect that has more to do with the budget for the job than
    with the accuracy of the conclusion.  There have been several
    studies if this, each seems to come to a different conclusion.
    
    Unfortunately, the nature of the production process allows the
    director/author almost total control over how the evidence is
    presented.  Ferinstance: Other studies have made no mention of
    the psychic, Lees.  This production made no mention of the fact
    that "juwes" is a word in Masonic tradition.
    
    I see two interesting angles to this show, re this file:
    one is the view (if accurate) of Lees (Leece?) perceptions,
    and the difficulty of using them in the investigation.
    Another, is to compare this to other versions, and consider how
    "evidence" can be interpreted different ways, and how a production
    can select and control what is presented.
    
    I believe that Fox Network will have a _different_ look at the same
    subject tonight, 25 Oct.
    
    thanks
    dave pierson
894.5Theories?USAT05::KASPERYou&#039;ll see it when you believe it.Tue Oct 25 1988 13:385
I didn't see it, but have a question.  Did the show get into the proposed
theory that he (Jack the ripper) keeps popping up at different times in
different places around the world?  Has anyone else heard of this theory?

Terry
894.6We may find out in 1999!NEXUS::ENTLERthe WizardTue Oct 25 1988 16:1510
    RE: Jack
    
    	In the LONDON notes file, they are also discussing this topic.
    Supposedly, the police files on the subject have been closed to
    the public and are not to be opened until 1999!
    	The same speculations are occuring in that files, but if you
    add the idea of a sealed file regarding the subject, then its more
    easy to assume that Royalty was involved.
    
    Dan
894.7ADVAX::MARSHALLWed Oct 26 1988 09:465
    re 6.
    
    Could you tell me what the node name is for the london notes file,
    thanks..
    
894.8VITAL::KEEFEBill Keefe - 223-1837 - MLO21-4Wed Oct 26 1988 10:105
    re: .7
    
    It's located at YUPPY::LONDON
    
    	- Bill
894.9ADVAX::MARSHALLWed Oct 26 1988 11:042
    thanks..
    
894.10Why the reports are sealed.BTO::BEST_GA Lerxst in WonderlandMon Oct 31 1988 08:0810
    
    
    Oh come on you guys!  Don't you know that the Jack the Ripper case
    was solved back in the 60's by Gene Roddenberry?  The Star Trek
    show "Wolf in the Fold" explains everything.  Jack the Ripper was
    an entity that traveled through space feeding on fear.
    Sheez!  The silliness of it all!
    
    Guy
    
894.11AYOU17::NAYLORDrive a Jaguar, fly a CheetahMon Oct 31 1988 10:443
    He was actually the Boston Strangler who was deported under another
    name .....      Re-appeared as an amazing likeness to one Mr
    Schikelgruber but under a different pseudonym ....
894.12BTO::BEST_GA Lerxst in WonderlandTue Nov 01 1988 07:009
    
    Now he is incarnate again (to get his Karma in order) collectively
    as the Meese commission ('cept he blew it).  
    
    :-)
    
    
    Guy
    
894.13Yours Truly, ....STRATA::RUDMANThe Posthumous NoterFri Nov 11 1988 14:01208
    The "Ripper-through-the-years" theory may be made clearer if the
    read Rumbelow's book (see below).
    
    I posted the following in the UCOUNT::TV file.  I'd normally say
    access that file but the node is bogged down and it would take you
    10 minutes to find the note.  I first answered the question of
    which book I was refering to when I mentioned P.J.Farmer's Ripper
    theory.  And it was my understanding the files were closed in 1888
    with the std. 100 yr. seal--this was the hook for the Fox broadcast.
    
    							Don
    =====================================================================
     The Farmer novel is GODS OF RIVERWORLD.  It contains the 3-man
     coverup theory.
     
     As for the Channel 25 broadcast, it was nothing but a Fox 
     viewer poll.
     
     It was hinted new evidence from the previously closed files 
     would be revealed.  Not even.  Opinions of the panel were 
     expressed with little or no background evidence.  Rumbelow 
     (JACK THE RIPPER: THE COMPLETE CASEBOOK) was interviewed: 
     one whole question.  He did have the post-mortem knife found 
     in the supposed Ripper's effects, which made good copy.  (In 
     retrospect, it wouldn't surprise me if all the reenactment 
     info came from his book!)  And they had the nerve to offer 
     two quotes from a letter (written by Warren, I think) 
     recorded in their files and NOTHING ELSE--with 5-6 thick 
     volumes of evidence strewn around the table!  (I think the 
     actual Ripper file was a few pages stuck in the book Leeming 
     was reading from, and we were being hyped.)
     
     Now, no mention was made of the potential "2nd man" but they 
     did touch on the possibility of a conspiracy by the 5 women to 
     blackmail the prince, resulting in Gull, Warren, and another 
     ranking govt. official (name escapes me) murdering them in such 
     a way as to indicate a madman's work.  Ustinov linked the word 
     "Juwes" found written on a wall the night Stride was murdered 
     ("The Juwes are not the men that will be blamed for nothing.")
     to the Freemasons, of which Gull & Warren were members, so, to 
     protect the Prince (also a Freemason), they took it upon 
     themselves to eliminate the threat.  This theory wasn't posed 
     to the "panel of experts".
     
     Ah, the experts.  
     
     -Pathologist Wadell dismissed *all* Ripper letters as hoaxes, 
      making no explanantion of why one contained info which should 
      have been known only to the Ripper himself.  

     -The FBI's Hazelwood gave a fascinating profile of Jack, but 
      nothing specific.  Also, Douglas (the 2nd FBI man) agreed with
      Wadell, saying the letters didn't fit the profile.  The profile
      pointed to one man.

     -The British judge (Queen's Counsel Mallalieu), when asked who 
      was the least likely suspect, immediately picked (need a drum 
      role?) Prince Albert.  Well, of *course* he didn't do it.  He was 
      never near the place.  He had witnesses who would swear on a 
      stack of titles he was elsewhere; why, during one of the murders 
      he was in Scotland.  (Wasn't he?)  And wouldn't shew just like to get 
      Queen Victoria on the witness stand!
      [Incidentally, I don't think the prince was the Ripper.]

As for the rest of the suspects:
     
     -Sir William Gull couldn't be the one, as he was 52 and had had a 
      stroke (sticking to the single man theory) and was too genteel 
      and intelligent to fit the profile.  The Queen's physician?  Be 
      serious!  (Wonder why Ustinov chose Gull--never did explain his 
      reasoning.  I guess when its your job to cast the deciding vote 
      in case of a tie and the panel is unanimous you feel you'd be 
      pissing in the wind.
     
     -D'onston, who wrote acticles which seemed to have info only the 
      Ripper could know, and claimed to know who the Rippers was, was
      dismissed as a suspect because the killings had no signs of
      devil-worship.  I wonder if the Yard looked for any?

     -M.J. Druitt, a failed lawyer and teacher lived near enough to
      the murder scenes to do the deeds and vanish quickly.  He
      was a strange one; even his family thought he was the Ripper.

     -Kosminski, the last suspect, was a Polish immigrant who did odd 
      jobs and was purported to be mad, winding up in an asylum for 
      the rest of his life.  He was a sleazy, unwashed, anti-social
      fellow who lived in the shadows of life who also lived in the 
      area.  A night person who fit the bill as someone who'd be 
      out and about and on the prowl at 4AM.

     The producers' theories were interesting but the experts ignored 
     them.  The only suspect which I felt didn't fit was Dr. D'onston,
     the Satanist, who came off from all angles as a publicity hound.  
     The experts didn't mention the tunnel which might have been used 
     by Druitt for a quick & quiet escape, and no mention was made 
     if the police patrolled it or not.  So what did they do?  They 
     chose the path of least resistance.  See after <FF>.  And, both 
     producers and experts ignored a few points made by the TV-movie. 
     (See after <FF>.)  One of the burning questions I had was why the 
     manhunt was called off when Druitt was fished out of the Thames, 
     and I waiting for the panel to address it.  Seems the police thought 
     the Ripper was finished, whoever he was.  Or was Scotland Yard just 
     lucky the killings stopped?  [I was wondering if maybe his goal was 
     to thoroughly cut up a person and when he has sated himself he either 
     killed himself or experienced a complete personality change.  Or 
     moved away.]
     
     Rather, it was mostly reenactments of the murders, repetition
     of producers' theories and pre-commercial hints at "new
     evidence" & startling disclosures.  The show was quite thorough
     in providing known info and their own speculations, but few
     fact-based conclusions.
     
     And every 15 minutes Ustinov was telling you which numbers to 
     call to cast your viewer vote!  How could the show be anything 
     else but a Fox ratings poll when they wanted you to call in your 
     vote after each suspect was "examined"!?!?!  Can you imagine 
     doing that during an actual jury trial?
     
     And the commercial breaks increased in frequency as the show 
     wore on.  And when it was over all I could think was "Gotcha!
     They trolled and you took the bait."
     
     In short, my wife summed it up with one word: "Bogus."
     
     re -.1  Right on!  The clue was given when Gull was looking at 
     Kelly's photo.  He mentioned he had practised vivisection (not 
     uncommon, but you need a callous streak to do it.)  And perhaps 
     you felt a twinge when he didn't bat an eye when he first looked 
     at the photo.
     
     No new (significant) evidence was revealed.  The panel didn't 
     identify the Secret Identity of Jack the Ripper, they *guessed*.  
     
     The path of least resistance was Kosminski.  No family, no friends, 
     no social life, little interaction with hardly anybody (sorry; 
     any*one*).  It seemed to me the most damning evidence was that 
     his MTBB (Mean-time-between-baths) was quite large.  No distinction 
     there, as Whitechapel was a haven for the poverty stricken--4 pence 
     for a night's lodgings, no bath. 
     
     Some more unanswered questions:
     
     -How did the Ripper manage to kill 4 and slice up 2 victims out 
      in the open w/o an outcry?  True, Whitechapel murders were more 
      common than you'd think, but with the vigilance of the people 
      and the police it is amazing how silent he was, and how expertly 
      he carved in the dead of night.  #4 was cut up in less than 10 
      min., according to the police patrol rounds reports.  Evidence 
      seems to indicate it would take more time.   Did he act alone, or 
      have a confederate?  
     
     -He easily he made his escapes, too.  Why, with all the patrols, 
      and people on their way to work in the early AM, did no one spot 
      him?  Given the spurting of blood everywhere, he must have been a 
      gory sight on at least two occasions.
     
     -Was Jack or wasn't Jack surgeon-like?  The doctors disagree on that
      point, but the Yard seems to have leaned towards a strong medical
      connection.  Having a post-mortum knife doesn't make you an expert
      on anatomy.  Unless they used to come with instructions.
     
     -Why, really, was the "Juwes" note washed off the wall before a 
      photo was taken?  Since Pizer, the Jewish butcher, was cleared 
      of all charges, and the note indicates the Jews weren't going to 
      take the heat for it, why was it so important it be wiped?  It was 
      recorded, so a photo wouldn't be much worse.  (Apparently this view 
      was shared, because Sir Charles Warren resigned soon after.  Or was 
      it because he was in on it and felt morally obligated to resign.  
      And do good deeds, like the Boy Scouts.)
     
     -Why did a witness identify Kosminski (a down-and-out nobody) and 
      then refuse to testify?  I suppose you could say he didn't want 
      someone to know he goes to Whitechapel, but you'd think the 
      notoriety of being The Eye-witness who nails Jack would far outway 
      other considerations.  And there were conflicting reports of what 
      happened to him after incarceration.
     
     -Why has so much documentation disappeared over the years?  You'd
      think the compilation and safe filing of the most grisly serial-
      murder to date would be primo in the eyes of Scotland Yard.  Even
      despite the City Police/Scotland Yard rivalry.

     So who really was Jack the Ripper?  (Answer after <FF>:)


     			Insufficient data.










     							Don
    ==================================================================
    I perused the book a few days ago.  The author picked Lukes (oh
    Darn-I can't recall the exact name) although he (and I) really
    liked the Gull theory.
    
    We'll never know, but one thing we can be almost certain of:
    
    The Ripper is dead.
    
    							Don
894.14WAGON::DONHAMWaste is a terrible thing to mindFri Nov 11 1988 14:177
        >The Ripper is dead.

        For now, at least...
    
        =8^O
    
    Perry
894.15STRATA::RUDMANThe Posthumous NoterTue Nov 29 1988 13:055
    re: -.1
    
    Planning a trip to the surgical supply house?
           
    						Don
894.16Just adding a psychic touchSUBURB::ODONNELLJTue Sep 26 1989 16:1613
    Mary Jane Kelly, the last victim of Jack the Ripper, was seen by
    a friend ON THE MORNING OF HER MURDER at a time when the Doctors
    believe she had been dead for some hours.
    
    Did Caroline Maxwell see her ghost?
    
    The face of a young woman was also seen at the window of the room in
    which she was murdered, until the house was demolished. 
    
    There were also reports of screams near the site of the murder of
    Elizabeth Stride for some days after her murder.