Conference hydra::dejavu

    RE: .0
    
    I have what I believe to be a recollection of a past life.
    
    As long as I can remember I have had a recurring dream where I start
    out in a garden surrounded by a low stone wall staring off into space 
    at three pyramids.  After doing this for awhile, I turn around and 
    enter a stone building with a wooden door.  Upon entering I wake up.
    
    The amazing thing about this is I once looked into a book about
    Egyptian archaeology and saw THE SAME PICTURE I had been looking
    at all of these years.  It is the one with the Sphynx, only in my
    dream the Sphynx is missing.  Also there is a ruined temple at the
    site of the picture, which gives the same angle that I see in my
    dream.  I have never been to Egypt and certainly hadn't seen any
    archaelogy books before I was 5 years old.
    
    Kathleen
    

    I can't say I have any direct recollections, but I'm not sure it
    would mean anything even if I did.  After all, they could the
    recollections of another spirit on the same wavelength as you(as
    opposed to your own subconcious recollections).  Still, I get the
    feeling this whole thing has been played out before.
    
    I know alot of cultures have a good deal to say about reincarnation.
    Unfortunately, I'm completely ignorant of their philosophy.  My
    own person opinion is that this level of existence is something
    one must perfect before moving on to a higher level.  In other words,
    if you don't get it right, you have to do it again.  And again.
    And again.
    
    That's why I'm doing my damnedest to finally get it right.  I don't
    know about you guys, but it is does get tiring, doesn't it?
    
    
    						Fred
    
    (Hi, Marcia!  Snoof!)

    I mentioned this topic briefly in note 77.14.  This note has inspired
    me to expand somewhat on it.  Please note that the following comments
    are about the technique of past-lives regression, not about whether-or-
    not reincarnation occurs.  I'm pretty much wide open on the latter
    issue.

    When we explore the amazing psychic abilities of people we have to keep
    in mind their equally amazing psychological abilities.

    If I, as a hypnotist (and I am an experienced hypnotist), ask a
    hypnotized person about their trip to the supermarket the previous day,
    I will quite likely get a detailed account: who they met, what they
    bought, what they saw but didn't buy, prices -- the works.  They will
    relive the experience in detail.

    Unfortunately, this will probably happen even if they didn't actually
    go to the supermarket.  The hypnotized person, wishing to be
    cooperative, convinces themself that they were at the supermarket and
    their subconscious freely generates as many details as are needed.

    What is more, without any specific suggestion to that effect, when the
    person "wakes up", they will probably *still* be convinced that they
    went to the supermarket the previous day.  This will likely occur even
    in those cases where the hypnotized person does not remember what
    occurred during the hypnosis session.  This is why previously hypnotized
    witnesses should not be put on the witness stand.

    In the case of the imaginary supermarket trip, the person presumably has
    a contradictory set of memories.  Under hypnosis people accept
    contradictions without really noticing them, but this is not true in the
    "normal waking" state.  This produces what is called a "cognitive
    dissonance" the result of which is that the "illusion" of having gone
    to the supermarket will usually naturally fade over time.

    If the trip wasn't imaginary, but the hypnotist asks for an unremembered
    detail (say the price of bananas) the hypnotized person will
    unconsciously invent a plausible amount and remember it.  When
    questioned after awaking they will still remember it.  In this case,
    however, there is no contradiction, therefore no cognitive dissonance,
    therefore no special fading of the memory.  The imaginary price of
    bananas that day will be forgotten at roughly the same rate as the
    actually remembered price of, say, apples.  Things actually remembered
    but not "relived" in the hypnosis session will be forgotten *more*
    quickly than the made up details.

    You probably see where this is leading.

    If a hypnotist asks someone while they are hypnotized, to remember
    details of a previous life, they probably will.  The source of those
    details will almost certainly be the hypnotized person's astoundingly
    creative subconscious.  It will invent details based on what seems
    plausible to them based:

	* on what they know (including things they don't consciously know
	    they know),

	* on what they unconsciously think will satisfy the hypnotist
	    (judged in part on reading subtle cues involving his/her
	    voice, posture, wording etc.),

	* and on what they *want* to be true.

    The result will be a story which will be very believable to the
    hypnotized person (and probably to the hypnotist) which will, what's
    more, seem to supply the answers they're looking for -- but it will
    be fiction nevertheless.  Furthermore, there will be no illusion
    destroying cognitive dissonance produced by contradictions with what
    they know.

    All past-life regression that I have ever heard of is done with
    hypnosis.  Sometimes the hypnosis is self-hypnosis, and sometimes it
    is *called* something else, but it is always fairly clearly a form
    of hypnosis.

    There have been a few cases (a very few out of literally tens of
    thousands) where the person seems to have tapped into a source of
    information not normally available to them.  Whether this source of
    information is memories of past lives or unconscious clairvoyance is
    an open question.  But the vast, vast majority of cases seem to be as
    I have described above.

    Now that I have been a spoil-sport let me say some positive things.

    If it is understood at the outset that what you will remember will be
    false (though very convincing), past-lives regression is harmless,
    interesting, fun and even informative.  What is being explored,
    however, is the present-life subconscious rather than past-life
    memories.

    I have never undergone past-life regression myself, but as a hypnotist
    I have on a couple of occasions helped others to do so (always with
    the above clearly understood), so I'm not speaking entirely out of
    theory.

		    Topher

    RE: .3
    > * and on what they *want* to be true.
      
    I guess this is why there are literally _thousands_ of people who
    "were Cleopatra in their previous life", even though there has only
    been one Cleopatra :^).
    
    I have some other memories of previous lives, but one thing I've
    noticed is that I've never been anyone of extreme importance.
    
    /Kathleen
    

    RE: HOW many Cleos??
    
    I am contentedly sure that I've never been anyone of importance
    either.  In fact, if I remembered some peasant existence, it would
    interest me greatly, especially from the pure survival standpoint.
    The fact that I'm your basic peasant in this life feels very good
    and proper, thank you.
    
    I'm curious: how did you approach the remembering process?  Were
    you regressed, or did you dream, or just have spontaneous recall
    or what?
    
    Thanks,
    		Marcia

    RE: .5
    
    I don't think I approached the remembering process, it's more like
    it approached me.  I've had a few other recurring dreams, or I see
    something that jarrs my memory.  For example, a couple of years
    ago I was hiking above the treeline on the Alpine tundra medows
    and remembered a life in Switzerland during the medieval times hearding
    cattle and making and selling cheese.  As I remembered it it was
    amazing to me how many people I knew in that lifetime I presently
    know.  That is more of a feeling, remembering the mannerisms, etc.
    Some of this is done throught dreams.  
    
    In other cases I run accross someone who had a prominent role in
    a previous life and remember them.  For example, I know someone
    who I murdered in a previous life.  He was, understandably, hostile
    toward me for no apparent reason.  We needed to work this out. 
    We are now on friendly terms.
    
    What I find _really_ fascinating about this is when someone remembers
    me.  I have a friend who was doing a Tarot reading for me one day.
    She asked me if I knew why she used the deck that she uses.  When
    I said that I didn't she pulled out the High Priestess and said
    "now you do".  The High Priestess in this deck was wearing the same
    style robe that I wear in my Egyptian dream!  Then she proceeds
    to tell me about the shape of the garden, and what happened to her
    there (it wasn't as pleasant for her as it was for me).
    
    Kathleen

    re above:
    
    An alternate to "past lives," as I have "noted" elsewhere is the
    idea of a "racial memory" or "collective subconscious."  There's
    no metaphysical reason to feel that there miight not be a vast pool
    of knowledge that we all can tap under certain conditions.
    
    If there is, then the supposed "past life" might be a memory sequence
    from some one else's life.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

RE: .3

    I re-read my own posting and realized that one paragraph might need
    some clarification:

	>All past-life regression that I have ever heard of is done with
	>hypnosis.  Sometimes the hypnosis is self-hypnosis, and sometimes it
	>is *called* something else, but it is always fairly clearly a form
	>of hypnosis.

    I am pretty sure that my comments are true -- past-life regression is
    illusion.  HOWEVER, this only applies to memories "discovered" by
    deliberate regression using hypnosis.  It does not apply to
    spontaneously discovered memories such as Kathleen describes.  It
    also does not apply to memories discovered by any non-hypnotic
    techniques (that I have never heard of such techniques does not mean
    they don't exist).

    Personally I am inclined to give "the benefit of the doubt" to many
    cases of spontaneous past-life memories, particularly when there are
    confirming details of one kind or another as in Kathleen's garden.
    Like Steve, I'm not very sure just *what* is going on (previous life
    memories, racial memory, spirit contact or ESP) but if it *acts* like
    reincarnation, I might as well treat it as that.

    As a scientist, of course, I can't grant the benefit of the doubt.
    In that role, I have to say that spontaneously remembered "past-life"
    memories frequently seem to have a vericidal component to them, but
    there are many possible explanations for them, no one of which stands
    out as a "best" scientific explanation.

    One further piece of clarification: there is one way of inducing
    past-life regression which is not "fairly clearly a form of hypnosis."
    Various psycho-active drugs have been reported to cause past-life
    regression.  The effects of drugs, however, seem to depend much more
    than we generally realize on what the person taking them *expects* to
    happen.  I strongly suspect that drug induced past-life regression is
    a form of drug-aided self-hypnosis, and so my statement stands.  Not
    only are such drugs risky, but they are likely to lead only to self-
    deception.

			Topher

    Topher, reading your info on hpynotism has been enlightening.  But
    one thing distresses me a little, and that is that it doesn't seem
    that many people will want to relate their experiences in this regard
    because they will have completely discounted them.  I'd have preferred
    to read them first-hand and then think about them for myself, rather
    than discounting 99% of everything someone might relate before I've
    even been told about it.  Even with your information in mind, I
    feel willing to consider the truth of anything anyone would tell
    me.  I know, through my astrological studies, that every individual
    possesses remarkable and unique capabilities, AS WELL AS absolutely
    unique ways of experiencing the potential of their chart.  I never
    discount what a person figures out about how a particular planet's
    energy is manifesting in their life--I only help expand their inter-
    pretation of it.  After all, I'm not sitting in their head--they
    are.
    
    As to any regression experiences I would undertake, instead of
    discounting everything that might happen, I would adopt a unique
    mindset of mine that I've used to good advantage in other exercises.
    I know that I'm a pretty good hypnotic subject, but with the
    peculiar stubborn aspect of my subconsious refusing to perform for
    the hypnotist.  It performs in its own good time.  One experience
    I remember well was a guided meditation in which we were instructed
    to visualize a pleasant place and then travel around it, looking
    for an object of great value to us.  The guide stressed that we
    were not to actively imagine what we would find, but to see what
    we happened upon that suddenly struck us as wonderful, then to take
    that wonderful thing into our heart center.  In my mind's eye, I
    found myself on a beach I used to walk when living in Hawaii, and
    by the time of the meditation's end, I had "found" nothing.  Since
    everyone else came out of the exercise came out glowing with new
    knowledge and a sense of a self-symbol, I was miserable.  But I
    let the experience stand.  Two weeks later, while sitting at my
    desk, the beach flashed up in my mind's eye, and with it, my
    valuable object--a glass Japanese fishing float.  Needless to
    say, I was ecstatic; the symbol was so right for the way I felt
    about myself at the time.  But I also learned an important lesson
    about the way my mind works.  So I would not find it at all 
    unusual to be hypnotised and have a spontaneous experience 
    weeks later.  And since I'm very familiar with the what I call the
    "ring of truth" I experience when attaining a true insight (as
    opposed to speculation) I would interpret anything against that
    "ring", and examine it at leisure for roots in my present life's
    experiences.
    
    Anyone else care to comment?
    
    	Marciae

    I quite agree.  I would rather hear the episodes and draw what reason
    I can out of them.  Whether or not past life regression, racial
    memory, or whatever is the cause, I appreciate the sharing in a
    open and forthright manner that this notesfile has shown.  In my
    own peculiar way, after reading Topher's note, I would consider
    that I am simply displaying my compliant and guilable nature to
    the world, rather than expressing something that is true for me,
    even if not universally.  I agree that science, logic, and reasoning
    hve a place in here; I refuse to agree that it is the only answer.
    Could we go back to sharing, and refrain from quite so much analyzing?
    
    In the words of Ramtha, though J.Z. Knight, "I am pleased you are
    here".
    
    Dave

    re .10:
    
    Speaking for myself, I'd say that there is no conflict between sharing
    expoeriences and logical/scientific (or parascientific) analyses.
     Indeed, the latter can enhance appreciation of the former.
    
    By all means, share experiences, but allow the more analytical of
    us to see whether we can add a bit of structure to the pile of bricks.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

Re: .9

    Sorry, Marcia, people may well have been discouraged from relating
    their experiences, and that was not my intention at all.  I only
    meant to give what I considered important information relevant to
    interpreting this kind of experience.

    That (in my opinion) hypnotically induced past-lives regression is
    unlikely to produce information relating to previous incarnations,
    does not make such experiences irrelevant.  They are still a
    marvelous tool for self-exploration.  It is just that I have reason
    to believe that they normally reflect directly on this life rather
    than on any previous lives we may have lived.

    I wish to encourage readers of DEJAVU to post experiences of this type.
    I think that they are interesting and relevant.  I will read such
    postings with respect.  They are reflections of the inner life, and
    therefore deserve it.  If the poster expresses the belief that the
    experience represents actual history without presenting any evidence
    to convince me, I will not agree but I also will not think less of the
    person.  I don't read this "conference" because I like to listen to
    people I have a low opinion of.

    If you look to past-lives regression to provide you with the historical
    cause of your present-day psychology, it is my belief that you will
    fail in that goal.  And as I said, because of the nature of hypnosis,
    you would be putting yourself in a position where you are likely not
    to realize that you have failed.

    If, on the other hand, you look to past-lives regression to provide you
    with insight as to the nature of your present-day self, you have a good
    chance of coming away with what you wanted.

    An analogy to another hypnotic technique, time or age progression, may
    be helpful.

    Several years ago, a friend came to me with a minor weight problem.
    Part of her problem, as she saw it, was that she could not really
    imagine herself as trim.  As a result it was hard for her to motivate
    herself, or to plan a strategy of careful, gradual weight loss.

    I am not a therapist, and do not do therapy.  I do know a number of
    of self-help tricks which make use of hypnosis, and I sometimes help
    friends to utilize them.

    In this case I hypnotized my friend, and we did some time progression.
    That is, I had her imagine that she was moving forward in time and had
    her stop "several years in the future, after you have successfully lost
    the weight you want to".  I then asked her to do things like look in
    a mirror, tell me what she liked about having lost the weight, and how
    she had gone (will have had gone? :-) about losing the weight.

    After I had brought her "back to the present" and woke her up.  We
    discussed the experience.  She knew perfectly well that the experience
    was imaginary (though at one level she felt as if she had actually
    lived through it).  Nevertheless, it gave her the confidence she needed,
    and the sense of what success would mean to her (and what it wouldn't
    mean) so that she could get on with the actual work of losing the
    weight.  Furthermore, the process of remembering how she "had" lost the
    weight gave her a start on planning a sensible program.

    There was nothing noticeably precognitive about the affair.  The
    strategy that she imagined as having taken place was not the one she
    actually used (successfully, I'm glad to say).  Although the experience
    was not "truthful" in an external sense of truth, it *was* helpful,
    valid, and growth promoting.  And in a strictly *internal* sense of
    truth, it was a truthful experience, since it told her truth about
    herself.

    Similarly, though I don't think that you are likely to learn much about
    literal past lives through past-lives regression, I think you can learn
    quite a bit about yourself.  In note 105.5 Marcia observed that she
    suspected that she would find that she had previously lived as a
    peasant. This is a simple example of the type of insight one might get
    from this technique (though Marcia was applying the process in reverse,
    so to speak).

    There is no better guide I know of then that "ring of truth", and you
    should trust it.  It is, however, a reflection of "inner truth" not
    "outer truth."  I have seen people subvert that ring by associating
    its message to incidental details.  My friend, for example, could have
    insisted on using the precise plan envisioned to lose her weight, and
    likely would have failed (it wasn't very realistic).  Instead, she
    understood the essential truth that was there, and which rung true for
    her: that losing weight was something under her control.

			Topher

    re .11
    
    A good example of my reply...
    
    If you read this in one light, it means well,  however, read slightly
    differently, it projects that those who enterpersonal experiences
    are not analytical or very structured.  An unfair comparison at
    the very least, and stifling at the worst.  I agree the science/
    logic methodology needs be entered, but please keep it impersonal,
    make it truly objective.
    
    Dave
    

    RE: .11,.13
    
    As one who has on several occasions related personal experiences,
    I'ld like to say that I haven't felt stifeled by the "more analytical"
    sorts of replies.
    
    However, I agree with .13, please keep it impersonal.  There may
    be others who are more easily put off than I.  Who knows how many
    people read this file and would post personal experiences but need
    to feel absolutely safe in order to do so?  I for one would like
    to hear from them.
    
    Kathleen
    

    Obviously, I don't feel threatened.  I will continue relating as
    I feel the need to.  I have had outsiders, in particular my tarot
    group, express that they found certain items, shall we say, in poor
    taste.  
    
    But then,  the growth thrives on controversy.
    
    Dave

    So, now that we've got that understood, anybody have any more
    "bricks" for such as Steve and Topher to help build structures
    from?
    
    -M-
    

    ...the line starts on the right. Gee, can't help notice that folks
    aren't exactly clamoring to share their innermost remembrances here.
    
    so, Topher's managed to get a lot of attention and repeatedly
    underscore his professional status. fine. He also totally diverted
    and co-opted the stated original purpose of the note. I've noticed
    that I have a blind spot; when out at night, if I try and look directly
    at a star, I CAN'T SEE IT. Psychic phenomena tends to fade when
    observed with a critical eye.
    
    Karl Moeller
    SWS Tucson AZ

    Well, looks like I'll be the first to try.  I just got into this
    file and saw this, so I may be talking before reading everything
    else, but this interests me.
    
    I don't really know if I've ever been here before.  All I know is
    that I have a feeling that I have.  Silly little things lead me
    to believe this; my unexplicable fear of fire, my watching a movie
    of the Hindenberg explode, and then telling my mother that it didn't
    happen exactly as they showed it (explaining that it was up in the
    air longer, tilted and then fell piece by piece), my undaughting
    belief in God with no religious background (to speak of from childhood)
    that began as soon as I could remember, my feeling of panic when
    I watched a movie of the Great Fire in Chicago, and my ability to
    learn so easily.
    
    I talked to someone about this once, a collegue.  He felt that all
    of that must have stemmed from things I heard or saw as a child.
    Could be.  But I don't know, it feels funny...  I see so many people
    that I think I've seen before, then when I go up to them to say
    "Hi", I realize that I have no idea who they are, and they don't
    know me either.
    
    I don't know if this is what you were really looking for, Marcia.
    I kind of feel like I rambled on, because I really don't know much
    about the subject- and I was always a little afraid to find out.
    
    Dale
    
    

    HOWDY,
         I NEVER KNEW THAT PEOPLE UNDER HYPNOSIS WOULD MAKE UP SO MUCH
    STUFF.  I STILL DON'T KNOW IT, BUT I'LL BE LOOKING FOR CONFIRMATION
    FROM OTHER SOURCES.  THAT WAS A VERY VALUABLE BIT OF INFORMATION,
    WITH LASER LIKE DIRECT BEARING ON THE SUBJECT AT HAND. THERE IS
    A SAYING BY JULIAN HUXLEY ABOUT HERBERT SPENCER: "HIS IDEA OF A
    TRAGEDY IS A THEORY KILLED BY A FACT." SO IT GOES.  IF IT'S NOT
    OBJECTIVELY TRUE, THEN WISHFUL THINKING WON'T MAKE IT SO.
         COURAGE IS CONFRONTING FEAR AND GOING ON ANYWAY.  MOST OF THE
    TIME IT DOESN'T INVOLVE LIFE THREATENING SITUATIONS, SO WE CAN JUST
    DECIDE TO NOT LET FEAR STOP US.  IF YOU HAVE A REGRESSION EXPERIENCE,
    I'D LOVE TO HEAR IT.
         ONE OTHER THING; SOME OF THE EXPERIENCES RECOUNTED HERE DON'T
    SEEM T BE AT ALL SUBJECT TO HYPNOSIS DOUBTS.  I PERSONALLY DON'T
    THINK THE IDEA OF A MERCIFUL GOD MAKES ANY SENSE AT ALL WITHOUT
    THE IDEA OF REINCARNATION. WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS UNEXPLAINED PHENOMENA;
    IT WILL BE WHAT IT IS, NOT WHAT WE WISH IT TO BE.  I'D LIKE TO FIND
    OUT WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON, WITHOUT BEING TOLD NOT TO THINK ABOUT
    IT, WITHOUT SEEING SOMEONE TOLD NOT TO MENTION ANY UNWANTED FACTS.
    I THINK PEOPLE HAVEN'T ENTERED REGRESSION EXPERIENCES BECAUSE THERE
    ARE PROBABLY RELATIVELY FEW PEOPLE WHO'VE DONE IT (HYPNOTIC
    REGRESSION).
    MIKE GAUTHIER

Re: .0
An earlier attempt was made regarding your use of all uppercase
(94.6), but it wasn't too direct; so I'll take the responsibility
to ask you to *please* use lower case characters both in your
titles and the body of your text (observing the usual rules of
captialization).  Reading more than just a few words in all
uppercase is hard on the eyes and is a convention typically
reserved to let others know you're SHOUTING (usually done in
"flame mode" to let others know they can skip on to the next
unseen entry if they don't want to read your "flame"). 

I think you'll attract more replies if you try this.

Thanks,
Chuck

    	I feel this note turning toward the deep hole dug in the Life
    notes file a while back.  In that file there was a powerful
    conversation going on about reality and the best way to deal with
    it.  This note has the potential to plumit into this abyss and get
    stuck.  I would like to see it loosen up and express more openly
    what people have to say.
    
    							Jorge'

    I've been hypnotically regressed several times back to "previous
    lives."  One time I was farm hand in Nebraska who had a heart
    attack in a wheat field, came to in the farmhouse, and died there.
    Another time I was a mentally retarded native american in the 
    pacific northwest.  Don't know if it was before or after the white
    man came.  The guy's name was Gar and that's about all he knew.
    He appeared to be treated well by his fellow tribesmen.  Another
    time I was a wealthy chinese trader/explorer.  Don't know the exact
    time period.  Things didn't change much in china during my "lifetime"
    and I didn't see any calendars.  I managed to sail far enough south
    to find a small penquin and bring it back with me.  It didn't survive
    very long in china.  Another time I was a priest of some kind in
    mexico along the atlantic coast.  I meditated a lot in a pyramid
    -like temple and had almost life and death control over the people
    in my "flock."  I've been an englishman a couple of times.  Once
    back during the time america was still a colony I emigrated to the
    new world and became some kind of businessman.  The other time was
    later on and my last name was William Wentworth.  I think there
    were several englishmen named William Wentworth.  I don't know 
    which one I was.  Last but not least, I was some kind of guard in
    Atlantis.  It was in the Atlantic Ocean.  I was overseeing some
    slaves(?) building some kind of stone structure.  They were all
    bald men who were muscular and were lifting stones that seemed
    to heavy to lift.  It was warm.  There were palm trees.  I was
    shirtless and had some kind of crystal pendant strung around my
    neck.  Except for Atlantis, not suggestion as to location or time
    period was given to me by my regressor.  The nebraska farm hand
    was supposed to be my previous incarnation.  The regressor tried
    to get me to regress to a lifetime in which I was female but it
    didn't work.  Don't ask me why.
    
    Now lets see you pointy-headed guys go to work on this stuff.
    
    Mike Baker
    

I wish to thank you for sharing those experiences with us. 

I think that they are interesting, valid and probably of great personal
significance.

Nothing you have said, however, gives me any reason to change my opinion
that what you experienced involved looking *inward* rather than *backward*. 

The other night I dreamt that I could unscrew my fingers.  I'm going to
think about this until I think I understand *why* I would dream that.  When
(if) I succeed at this, I will have learned something about myself.  I
treasure the dream.  But I don't think for a moment that I can *really*
unscrew my fingers. 

When we are small children we learn that (most) dreams are not literally
true.  The hypnotic state produces a waking dream (despite appearances to
the contrary, hypnosis is a waking state, not a sleeping one) and we have
never had the opportunity to learn that what we dream when awake is not
true.

THIS IS NOT IN ANY WAY A PUT DOWN.  It is applies to *everyone*, myself
included.  What people dream when hypnotized seems as real as any other
experience and is therefore emotionally very convincing. 

The information which would provide an intellectual counter to that
emotional belief is not particularly available.  I attempted to provide it.
I have an almost religious belief that ignorance is never preferable to
knowledge. 

I do not expect that the information I gave will in any way dull the impact
of those experiences.  It should not!  They are to be treasured. 

You are welcome, of course, to reject the validity or the applicability of
my information.  This simply means that we disagree, and I will not respect
you any the less for that -- I disagree on *something* with almost
everyone. 

But let's try to keep personal insults out of this conference... 

		Topher

    Topher,
    
    Did you ever see the episode "Demon with a Glass Hand", starring
    Robert Culp?
    
    							Ann

    I apologize for what might of sounded like an insult.  I am frequently
    chided by my friends for being over analytical.  I feel the need
    to analyze or find a pattern in nearly everything I encounter in
    life.  I am one of the most "pointy headed" people I know.  I think
    this analytical inclination is both a fault and a virture.  I meant
    no offense to anyone.  Sorry if it came across that way.

    I shared my experiences primarily because the original request in the 
    note was for just that, someone to share their experiences with 
    regression.  I'm not out to change anyone's mind.  I don't feel
    threatened or bothered by anyone's rejection of my experiences.
    After much thought, I've decided just to accept them as a part of
    me and not worry about any cosmic significance.  Actually, each
    time I was regressed, I didn't expect anything to happen and sort
    of felt like I was making the whole thing up.  I was real surprised
    that I had any previous lives at all especially the ones I did have.
    Whatever it was, it was a real interesting experience.
    
    Mike Baker

    It's been quite a while since anyone has replied to this note,
    however I just found it and want to share my experiences.
    
    I've been given past life information from a few psychics, none
    of whom used hypnotism.  They just related previous situations
    that they felt would give me certain information that I could
    use NOW to deal with issues that are current.  All have been
    interesting and helpful, but in no way life changing.  Except
    for the reading I had last May.  The way I found this person was
    a classic case of "coincidence upon coincidence", but I won't 
    go into that here.  Anyway, this woman usually wakes up the 
    morning of your reading with some information about you.  She
    brings her notes with her and she begins by relating some information
    to you.  She states up front that she does not want to do all the
    talking, and that she would prefer an interactive dialogue with
    you, so as she is giving you information that intuitively and
    psychically comes to her, she will ask you to respond and to also
    share anything that "comes to you".  She also works with body
    energy and can "see" any places where energy is stuck.  Very often
    these places in the body will really become activated when the
    source of the "stuckness" is discussed.  I got in touch with a
    pain that I've been carrying in my heart for many, many lifetimes,
    and it has literally kept my heart chakra closed.  What I walked
    away with was, as she put it, the beauty of who I really am and also 
    the ability to consciously open my heart center.  When my heart center
    is open, I feel so much more alive, and people definitely respond to
    it.
    
    I did pay a fairly high fee for this reading.  However, I will always
    view it as a gift.
    
    Carole
    

    
      OK, I'm gradually working my way thru this notes file whenever
    time permits.  Maybe farther on there's something about the question
    I want to ask now, but I'll ask it anyway while it's on my mind.
    
      Much is written and discussed about past-life regression, whether
    it is backward or inward, etc.  Many people CAN be persuaded to
    regress convincingly backward in time for many centuries and through
    many previous lives. I won't argue about that they're really doing,
    because I don't know, either.
    
      Now the kicker: has anyone ever experimented systematically with
    FORWARD projection of the personality, hundreds of years ahead,
    thru SUCCEEDING lives?  If one accepts the theory of reincarnation,
    the present existence is only one short sequence in a life-stream,
    and whether the good ol' race succeeds in blowing itself up or not
    the souls will march on into new vestments.
    
      I've never been hypnotized and from what I've heard I'd be a poor
    subject for various reasons.  But I've seen convincing demonstrations
    of the (art?)(science?)(?) and don't question its validity.
    
      Topher, you seem to know a lot about the subject.  What happens
    if a skilled hypnotist attempts to persuade a subject to project
    his/himself forward a goodly number of lives?  Does the experiment
    fail because he/she has no subconsciously recorded data to draw
    upon in fashioning an image of that future?  Does he/she simply
    envision something out of "Soylent Green" or other Hollywood-type
    trivia implanted in the mind.  Or is a new and startling view
    of world/civilization/existence going to emerge?
    
      The answer might throw some weight onto the "backward vs inward"
    scales...
       
                                                 --- Herb

    
      Make that "his/HERself" in the previous reply, before the brickbats
    fly!
                                  -- Herb

    In the book Far Journeys, Robert Monroe described what he saw about
    1000 years hence after being "taken" there by a higher intelligence.
    He was not hypnotized at the time. Without spoiling it for those
    who want to read the book, what he saw was decidedly different in
    a very positve sense.
    
    	- Bill

    
    re. .28
    
       I have had a number of experiences regressing myself to the past,
       and have regressed  others as well.  The most interesting one I did
       was  when I regressed thru the womb (this time) to the holding place
       or whatever it's called, just prior to this past entry.
    
       Regarding progressions, I know several people doing  them
       now and have tapped into it several times myself.   I believe
       all information is available to those who believe in themselves
       and can get past the neg. human programming that we 'can't' do that
       (whatever THAT may be).  Being sensitive with proper intent helps
       too :). 
                
       Because we have free choice the future is always subject to change.
       We can change the past by changing the present.  Seth speaks to
       the power of NOW, as does Ram Dass.  It's been my experience
       when an energy block  releases in the present it
       effects the past as well as the future.  When the release occurs,
       patterns supporting the original block can also break and effect 
       present and future behavior. It's also possible for one person
       freeing a block to release the same block in another. It's probably 
       the same principle which bring two peoples heartbeats into synch 
       when they hold hands.                                    
    
    Lora

RE: .28

I've heard of people doing this, but I haven't heard enough detail to
comment on the results.  It would be interesting to try it.

As discussed briefly in note 105.12, simple age/time progression is a
commonly used tool in hypnosis.  Usually it is presented, implicitly or
explicitly, as progression to a possible (successful) future.

A priori belief is not very important with "good"/deeply hypnotized
subjects.  In lighter hypnosis, however, it can be an important factor.
A lightly hypnotized person who believes in past-lives regression is more
likely to get results than one who does not.  I would expect, therefore,
to be unsuccessful somewhat more often with "future-life progression" than
with "past-lives regression" (if presented as "real", as opposed to
"what if you could").

Other than that, I don't think that there would be any problem in producing
material with future lives progression.  It would again come out as a subtle
amalgam of expectations, memories, wish fulfillment and pure creativity.

I think that, like the regression material, and other types of channeled
material, some of what comes through would seem transparent, naive,
reconditioned Buck Rogers, or Christianity (or some other religion) dressed
up as Buck Rogers.  I would expect other material to be much more
sophisticated, and very difficult to distinguish from what would be
expected if progression were "real".

I guess that the only evidence I would find worth considering would be
facts which were both confirmable and unavailable here/now.  A valid
proof of Fermat's Last Theorem would be impressive to say the least.
So would confirmable, unknown, scientific facts.  Even some technology,
sufficiently in advance of today's, but nevertheless buildable,
would also serve.

Even in these cases, however, we would have problems distinguishing
"real" progression from "ordinary" precognition.

(By the way, there are lots of myths floating around as to what does and
doesn't make someone hypnotizable.  You may be basing your opinion of
your poor ability to be hypnotized on misinformation.)

				Topher

    RE: .30
    
    Exactly what is and is not hypnosis is a complex subject.  I would
    interpret the state that Robert Monroe as in as probably a form
    of "self hypnosis" (all types of hypnosis are forms of self hypnosis).
    
    			Topher
    

    Since there is so little on this topic to date, I might as well
    put in my little foray into the fray.
    
    At my last job (I've been at DEC for 7 weeks now) I joined a 
    meditation club, run by a man I'll call Bob.  He was into various
    forms of meditation and chanting - whatever came his way that seemed
    of interest and had possibilities.  He got results from most things
    he tried.  End of Bob's background.
    
    Bob told me about past life regression, and suggested I try it under
    his supervision.  He was learning from a teacher, and I was to be
    his first case.  Bob's experiences were many; the most exciting
    one for him was a story about being pounced upon while "out standing
    in the field" (quotes are due to a particular greeting card. please
    excuse.) farming.  He had a (what he thought was) useless stick
    with him.  The pouncers took him away, whereupon he was sacrificed
    to the local (somewhere in what is now northern South America or
    Central America) gods, performance including the tearing out of
    the still-beating heart.  [That's what makes these past lives so
    memorable.]  What made the thing exciting for him was the stick.
    Some weeks or months after the experience Bob saw a public TV
    presentation about the history of farming, and saw that the first
    farming implements, used for many millenia, was a stick of similar
    description to his.
    
    My experience was a bit more mundane.  I had only one session, during
    which I recalled (?) being strapped in a chair for questioning,
    and being beaten over the head with a stick or rod.   A psychological
    explanation of this might be that I didn't want to be in the chair
    for the past life experience, but I've been to a psychologist before,
    and *I* wouldn't make a direct 1-1 relation there.  Anyway, I found
    it difficult to see the difference between what I was getting and
    what my imagination might dream up.  I stopped (other reasons, too).
    
    re: hypnosis   
    	It is possible that some form of hypnosis was present, probably
    self-, but it was not called such.
    
    	ed

    	Are all past-life experiences so violent?
    
    	Is that a "prerequisite" for having them?
    
    	Larry
    

    RE .35

    My answer is no.  I've been regressed/hypnotised/whatever several 
    times and can't recall any violence in any of the experiences.  Either 
    there wasn't any or the regressor didn't ask me, the regressee, to 
    remember any or they were so bad I suppressed them.  In one I was a 
    farmworker in Nebraska in the late 1800's.  I suffered a heart attack 
    in a wheat field, was carried to the farmhouse on a horse-drawn wagon, 
    and died in bed.  That's the only one in which I remember dying.  
    Not very violent or exciting.  Maybe I've just been lucky.

    Mike    

    RE: .35
    
    I've been regressed and self-regressed several times, and have a
    mixture of violent memories, and non-violent memories.
    
    Some examples include:  Being sacrificed as previously described
    (still-beating heart removed), low-level priestess of a god in Egypt,
    where I lived to be rather old, a cattle farmer in Switzerland, a
    Franciscan monk, a Lady in a feudal castle, again I remember being
    rather old, and a participant in a race-riot on one of the Caribbean
    islands in about 1700.
    
    So, as would be expected, there are a mixture of memories.
    
    Elizabeth 

    	If these past life experiences are true (I'll admit I'm still
    skeptical, probably due to my Roman Catholic upbringing which says
    that when you die, you go on to a higher reality and never come
    back - unless the Big Man Upstairs has a special assignment for
    you), then these should be great ways to learn about human history.
    Has anyone learned/revealed anything previously unknown about some
    past society which modern historians later discovered to be true?
    
    	Larry
    

    Re .38:
    
    I've never heard of anything of the like, though that's just me.
    Note that whether past life, racial memory, or ETP (extra-temporal
    perception), the results would be the same -- learning something,
    er, mystically, that later would be verified (or refuted) by
    conventional means.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

RE: .38
    
    Although I don't remember the details, there is a well documented
    case where someone was "regressed" and experienced being under siege
    in (I think) a church or synagogue.  Something (sacred documents,
    bodies?) was placed in a hidden, sealed "crypt".  The building was
    found and the hidden items located.
    
    Since
    
    	1) we know that people can find out things which they cannot
    	   otherwise know about, without a suggestion of past-lives
    	   memory,
    
    	2) this type of "veridical" information turns up very rarely
    
    	3) when it does show up it is frequently mixed in with lots
    	   of completely incorrect details
    
    	4) we know that people can create in their subconsciouses
    	   intricate, seemingly complete worlds
    
    Occam's Razor (see current discussion elsewhere) suggests that we
    are exploring the subconscious and that the subconscious is
    supplementing its creations using ESP.
    
    Similarly, retrocognition (what Steve refered to as ETP in .38)
    when confirmed can always be explained as clairvoyance, and so it
    is usually not considered distinct from it.
    
    				Topher
    

    Re. "Any responses from Steve where you refer to racial memory"
    
    I have been thinking about the concept of "racial memory" as you
    have presented it in relation to past-life recollection.  I accept
    the concept of a "storehouse" of all human experience which can
    be tapped into.  This is referred to by some as the Akashic Records,
    and there are individuals who claim they are able to read the
    records in this storehouse and provide information to people that
    will be of value to them.  I have also heard that this is a very
    rare gift.
    
    A question that I would like to ask you Steve is that, based on
    your premise, do you think the person would have 1) an
    "intellectual" remembrance or 2) would they also have "emotional" and
    "bodily" remembrance.  My own thoughts are that a "racial memory"
    would not carry the emotional and bodily memories - that in order to 
    have a #2 remembrance the individual would have had to have the
    original experience.
    
    Any comments?
    
    Carole
              
    

    Re .41:
    
    Carole, the distinction might be more artificial than real.  The
    problem here is that if we say that someone only has an "intellectual"
    memory and that person is in a highly suggestable state (such as
    hypnosis) the mind might fill in the other details so that it is
    turned into, say, an "emotional" memory.
    
    If you'll pardon the pun, my mind's open on this.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    I can't give you a textbook definition of the Akashic Records.
    The term has been used in esoteric disciplines to describe what
    I feel is a "storehouse" of all human experience.  Psychics of
    the caliber of Edgar Cayce have been said to have the ability
    to tap this source of information when doing readings for
    people.  If I can find some more info I'll enter another
    reply.
    
    Regards,
    
    Carole
    

    RE: the definition of the akashic records.

    One definition I've seen is as follows:
        
    Each soul has a record of its past lives. This includes major factors 
    of each life such as the approximate place and time, the person's 
    gender, occupation, age at death, accomplishments, failures. These are 
    spiritual records and not easily read. They are also referred to as 
    God's Book of Judgment. They are sometimes called soul records.

  Well, here goes...
  
  My boyfriend and I felt attuned with each other from when we
  first met.  He was curious about the possibility of us being
  soul mates.  So he had a friend hypnotize him.  It would seem
  that we met briefly during the Civil War in South Carolina. 
  I was a nurse, him a soldier.  She gave him dates of birth and
  death, plus names.  I was Ainee'.  (my middle name now is Ann)
  This was the most recent lifetime he recalled...  interesting?...
  
  Theresa Ann.

    Until I was hypnotically regressed by Lora Wallis (note .31) I was
    quite liable to listen to arguments discounting the experience.
    After the experience, the obviousness of the lives as ones I had
    been compulsively gathering data on much of my life became clear.
    I'd been looking in books for what I had far more information about
    internally by actual personal experience. In short, having been
    there was superior to a lifetime's compulsive scholarship. QED.
    
    - Boleslaw 

    re: .48
    
    Sounds to me like you're confusing cause and effect.  The areas
    where you have been compulsively gathering info. are precisely those
    where you would be expected to similarly fabricate "lives" when
    regressed.
    
    /Bevin

    The significant gain in 'being there' was the ability to directly
    'see' things that my own scholarship did not itself contain @ all. 
    
    Did I 'fabricate' them? I seriously doubt I did. I could involve
    myself in an extensive tail-chasing exercise trying to 'verify'
    the 'new findings' that I 'saw', & in fact, I immediately began
    to do just that. Lora cautioned me that it was simply another
    intellectual exercise with no spiritual value or content. QED.
    
    But I continued to try to 'prove myself wrong' for days thereafter.
    {Ex}.I disputed with my 12th c. self that the term 'Baie de la Ficelle'
    was absurd, it was 'Baie de la Pucelle' (Jeanne d'Arc's nickname).
    Ah, but, Jeanne d'Arc lived in the 15th c. And 'baie' wasn't correct
    French, it's 'Manche' (sleeve, literally), like La Manche (English
    Channel.) Wrong on both counts in the present: 'Baie' IS Bay; &
    has always been; 'Ficelle' is a thin-thread, i.e. a narrow-inlet,
    like a fjord in Norwegian. Fishing-nets are made of 'ficelles',
    or what we call 'strings' in English.  The argument w/ myself was
    both absurd & futile as well as simply incorrect on all counts.
    
    Proving? That the 'direct observation' & naming was accurate in
    that century, despite all my lifetime's reading, scholarship. QED.
    
    Presumably this wonn't convince Brett. Try regressing & come back
    with something you now know 'directly' & you'll be both astonished
    & quite tolerant of the whole experience, when you hear others;
    I did & am & I had had an [absolute] block against it until then.
    
    -Boleslaw          

    " As for me, I am not only a mystic; I am also the reincarnation
    of one of the greatest of all Spanish mystics, San Juan de la Cruz 
    (St. John of the Cross).
      I can remember vividly my life as San Juan, of experiencing divine
    union, of undergoing the dark night of the soul of which he writes
    with so much feeling. 
      I can remember the monastery and I can remember many of San Juan's
    fellow monks. "
    
    -Salvador Dali, from an interview with Ben Martin " Dali Greets
    the World " N.Y. Herald Tribune magazine, TODAY'S LIVING 24 JAN
    1960, in REINCARNATION, An East-West Anthology Compiled and Edited 
    by Joseph Heard and S.L. Cranston (The Julian Press, NYC, 1961)
                                                                   

    Here's to the topic that seems to undergo occasional rejuvination,
    from a relatively new-to-DEJAVU noter, both reader and writer.
    
    I've been past-life-regressed during meditation, which is close
    to hypnosis.  I was a Tibetan monk-child, male, of course, walking
    down the dirt path through a villiage nearby the monastery.  Another
    memory from this lifetime was the moment directly before the third-eye
    opening, where I lay in a darkened room, anticipating the pain,
    but feeling positive about that which the pain would give.
    
    I was a gypsy (female), travelling through the forests with my family
    and our wagon full of gaudy schmoo.  I did crystal ball readings.
    
    I was a Roman princess, whose family had gone/been exiled (?) to
    England; there was a courtyard in which there was a buried body
    of one whom my father, the King, had killed, and this was being
    kept secret from everyone, including myself, but I *felt* its presence.
    
    During my ordeal with the people from Denver who wanted me for
    themselves, I had much more violent recollections; of being the
    sacrifice on the stone; they went to cut out my heart, but I was
    an identical twin, and my heart wasn't where they expected it to
    be. I will spare you more of these less-than-pleasant memories.
    
    My thoughts on these;
    
    I am open as to whether or not these are actually "past-life" memories.
    They could be the manifestation of creativity; of those many things
    which our brains take in, of which we are not aware on a conscious
    level, but our brains construct these realities, and they are within
    us, from which, we may learn.  They could be the brain's way of
    making analogy to the present life situation (the fact that violent
    death memories happened when people were trying to suck my energy
    furthers my belief that this is true).  Either way, I think that
    they are valuable, and can definitely help us to gain insights into
    ourselves.
    
    Meredith, aka Wednesday Lobsang-Rampa ;-)

    There's a pro-reincarnation Interview with Dr. Ian Stevenson, a
    Scot, educated @ St. Andrew's U. (in Fife) in OMNI Jan. 88 issue
    pp. 77-8,80,108[end]. The 'tickler' above the Interview states:
    
    " Amassing carefully documented case histories of children who
    claim to remember past lives, this psychiatrist is presenting
    the first evidence -ever- for the possibility of life after death."
    
    Stevenson (69) holds a Chair at the University of Virginia endowed by
    Chester Carlson (deceased, 1968, inventor of the Xerox machine)
    & heads the division of personality studies at the UVA hospital
    where he was chief psychiatrist (1957-64).
     
    Stevenson's publications from the University Press of Virginia
    are all presently in print:
            20 CASES SUGGESTIVE OF REINCARNATION; 
            CASES OF THE REINCARNATION TYPE (4 vols.); 
            UNLEARNED LANGUAGE: New Studies in Xenoglossy; 
            TELEPATHIC IMPRESSIONS: A Review and Report of 35 New Cases.
      
    He is no fan of hypnosis: 
    " I'm not saying hypnosis is not a useful tool, but a large part
    of what emerges under hypnosis is is pure fantasy. Some of the previous
    lives have been traced to historical novels. " (p80, call-out) 

    During a psychic reading I learned that I helped build the great
    wall of China (this talent has disappeared 8^) ) and that I was
    "Stonewall" Jackson....hmm just realized the connection there. I
    find this all very interesting.
    
    Mark Higgins