Conference 7.286::sports_90

    The A's have had the luxury of dominating in the playoffs of late.  The
    only other time they fell behind in the playoffs was the World Series
    with the Dodgers.  We'll find out what they're made of now relative to
    how they bounce back.
    
    Some front running teams can't successfully deal with being behind or
    winning close, critical playoff games.  Take the '84 Lakers for
    example! ;-)
    
    Mike

    
    Because he looks dorky, Steven, unlike me........
    
    Hawk
    

   >Some front running teams can't successfully deal with being behind or
   >winning close, critical playoff games.  Take the '84 Lakers for 
   >example! ;-)
    
    While other front running teams have relatively easy success in early
    playoff games, get complacent, and end up losing the series.  Take the 
    '90 Celtics for example!  :-) :-) :-)
    
    						 glen j.

    Silly Glen, the '90 Celts were NOT a front running team. Even someone
    as biases as 'lil Mikey Heiser knows that.

    The Suns did that a couple times last year.  Although they won 2 close
    games in the Forum (and blew LA out in Phoenix), they still blew a 23
    point lead to the Blazers in Portland.  
    
    It turned out to be a crucial loss.
    
    Mike

    A friend of mine just called with some distrubing news.....Cin 5 A's 4
    in 10 innings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Said it was decided on a bad call with
    the ball being hit down 3rd base line, looked foul to my friend and
    so does it to me, even if I haven't seen it yet!!! :-) 
    
    What I got to see, I liked a pretty good game, but the A's still look
    like they are shook up!!! I don't know why, they just seem to be
    nervous or something. Which they should be!!! Oh well, I still say the
    A's take 3 at home and shove one down Cinci's throat in Cinci!!!
    
                                                M.J.(hoping for miracles)

    
    	Cincy wins 5-4 in 10 innings in what was truly a great effort by
    both teams.  Lots of great plays(Canseco's homer, Rickey throwing out
    Sabo at 2nd, and his shoestring catch in the 9th, Braggs 9th inning
    hit to tie the game, the Dibble/Canseco confrontation, Hatcher setting
    a record for consecutive WS hits, etc.).
    
        Cincinnati is playing exceptional ball right now, staying close and
    in position to win.  Bad calls or not, Oakland is killing themselves 
    with horrendous fielding, leaving too many men on base, and shoddy pitching
    from their starters(witness the #'s 1 and 2 batters - Larkin and Hatcher 
    - not only getting on base, but with doubles and triples).  They simply
    are not making the plays.  Who would have thought that the Reds would
    beat Stewart *and* Eckersley.    
    
    	Game 3 will be Browning vs. Moore on Fri. night in Oakland.
      
    	                                         glen j.

   re: .9 Dibble/Canseco
    
    	Basically, Lansford led off the inning with a single to 1st.  Next 
    up was Jose.  So here you have Dibble, who can throw heat over 100+,
    facing Canseco, who had homered earlier to spark the 3 run 3rd inning,
    in a potentially game deciding at-bat.  Dibble pitches low and inside
    with a fastball, and Jose looks at a called strike one.  The second pitch, 
    Dibble again comes low and inside with the fastball and Jose whiffs for 
    strike two.  Rob then throws an off speed pitch for a ball and then an
    outside fastball to even the count.  Dibble comes back with the inside
    fastball.  Jose hits it directly to Larkin for the DP.  Dibble then 
    retired McGwire to end the inning.
    
    	I looked forward to seeing Dibble/Canseco match up against each
    other.  And the setting couldn't have been better: man on 1st, top 
    of the ninth, tie game.  Two of the money players of the series facing
    each other with the game on the line.  Though I was hoping that Jose 
    came through, it was fun to watch no matter the result.   
    
    	I get the feeling that they'll face each other again in a crucial
    situation later on.
    
    						 glen j.
                                                        

    Thanks!!!!! I thought you meant some type of fight or something and in
    a way that is a fight!!!! 
    
    The A's seem to hit alot, but they are straight at the fielders, and
    they hit into double plays and really kill their selves, I'm not taking
    anything away from the Reds,they are pitching great!!! But usually the
    A's don't do that to the amount they have done it in the past two
    games. IMO........ I still have faith that the A's will wake up and
    make this their 2nd in a row!!!!!!!
                                                            M.J.

      About half way through the game there was a break for one of those
    IBM You Make the Call questions that they run. This one showed a
    firstbaseman running toward the dugout and jumping over a fence in
    front of the dugout to catch a foul ball (in the dugout). The question
    was, Is this an out or a foul ball. Well I was shocked to hear the
    answer they gave, it was an out because the dugout is in play. If that
    is the case, why is it that a ball thrown into the dugout is dead and
    the runners move up a base? I thought they really blew the call. This
    guy actually jumped over the fence and caught the ball while standing
    in the dugout. He did not catch it as he jumped over. Anybody else
    think their answer was wrong?
       Is Billy Hatcher having a series or what?
    
    Paul
    

    The last at bat of the game was indeed fair.  The ball hooked third
    base and landed in fair play.  The game was exciting, but there
    were 4 errors in the game.
    
    I also disagreed with the IBM You Make the Call.  Does anyone have
    a rule book to look this up.
    
    The Wizard

    Re: .12 & 13
    
    I wonder if that ruling was some type of home field ground rule
    for the Astrodome.
    
    John

    My guess about the You Make the Call is that the ball is in fair play
    until it makes contact with something in the dugout.
    
    For instance, if a ball were to go into the dugout on a hop and, very
    hypothetically, the backup man on the play was standing in the dugout
    and fields the ball before it ever made contact with anything in the
    dugout, I would assume the ball is still live.  
    
    In other words, where a player is when he catches a ball is not
    important, it's what the ball makes contact with.  
    
    But that's just a guess based on the situation presented in the You
    Make the Call.
    
    And, FWIW, it was easily a fair ball that ended the game last night. 
    No controversy whatsoever.  
    
    	--dan'l

Terrific baseball last night.  Two very good teams playing for all the
marbles in October.  Gotta love it.

And ya gotta love the Reds being up 2 - zip!  Still a long way to go
for the Reds, but a significantly *longer* one for Oakland.  

Random thoughts from last night:

o Will Oakland ever get Billy Hatcher out?

o Jose Canseco ain't at 100%.  A healthy Jose (or a healthy anybody,
  probably) would've caught Hatcher's triple in the 8th.  Seems to
  me LaRussa oughta know if his player is hurting that badly and 
  substitute appropriately.  Guy can hardly move out there.

o Beating Eckersley gives the Reds there 2nd psychological boost in
  2 games.  (Beating Stewart was the first.)  These 2 trends are a 
  very bad sign for Oakland.

o IMO LaRussa stuck with Welch too long, and then stuck with Honeycutt
  too long.  Seemed he was on the managerial defensive all night long,
  while Piniella was on the offense.  

o Rickey Henderson is a great ballplayer.

o Rickey Henderson is a showboating hotdog.

o If I were Rob Dibble it would take all the self-restraint in my body
  to *not* stick my 99 MPH heater in Rickey's left ear.

o Why do the Henderson's (Rickey and Dave) smile so much?  Wonder if they're
  still smiling?  Also didn't notice Eckersley firing his pistol at anybody
  last night, 'specially Cinci's weak hitting utility infielder and weak
  hitting catcher!


- ACC Chris
    

    I couldn't believe Hatcher didn't tag from third in the 8th (?)
    inning on the fly to Canseco in right.  They'd been aggressive on the
    basepaths the entire series, and then they hold him up.  I don't think
    Piniella was too pleased either.  Fortunately, it didn't come back to 
    haunt them.
    
    I was amazed at Larkin's hit in the bottom of the first.  I think it
    was an 0-2 count, and the pitch was a fastball over his shoulders, which
    he lashed to right for a ground rule double.
    
    Oakland's gotta be feeling the pressure about now.  All their studs
    have been hit pretty hard.
    
    I saw an awful lot of head shaking and f'in's being directed at the
    home plate ump, by both teams.  Glad to see he had skin a bit tougher 
    than tissue paper and didn't give anyone the heave-ho.  
    
    					Steve

>    I couldn't believe Hatcher didn't tag from third in the 8th (?)
>    inning on the fly to Canseco in right.  They'd been aggressive on the
>    basepaths the entire series, and then they hold him up. 
    
    Hatcher said that because of the crowd noise he thought he heard the
    third base coach tell him to stop.  Never did mention what the third
    base coach really said.
    
>    I saw an awful lot of head shaking and f'in's being directed at the
>    home plate ump, by both teams.  
    
    In the past few World Series, didn't they have a camera mounted somehow
    way above home plate?  Or was that just in Minnesotta in the dome? 
    Anyway, I thought that was a great view.  It certainly would have made
    me feel better during the NLCS because I thought that there were a lot
    of outside balls called as strikes...especially the one against Redus
    during the Pirates' last at bat in game 6.

    
    > I saw an awful lot of head shaking and f'in's being directed at the
    > home plate ump, by both teams.  Glad to see he had skin a bit tougher 
    > than tissue paper and didn't give anyone the heave-ho.  
    
    Bingo!  I saw a hell of a lot more crying, whining, muttering,
    head-shaking, gesticulating and general "showing up" of the umpire from
    Rickey Henderson, the Reds' dugout, and especially Jose Canseco than
    what supposedly merited Roger Clemens' "warning".  I think the Clemens
    incident may have paved the way, at least till the end of this season, 
    for the players to say or do whatever they please with the umpires.
    
    I like Canseco, but the guy's become almost insufferable.  He gave away
    at least two, and probably three, outs out in right field.  Yes, he's 
    got a bad back, but this type of defensive play is not totally out of
    character.  I've seen in person similar Jose follies in Fenway Park 
    over the past two years.  LaRussa is not providing Jose any excuses,
    either.  He said that if you want to win the game, you've got to make
    the play on Hatcher's triple.  Most of the fault on that play was due
    to a poor jump, and maybe the bad back only prevents him from
    recovering from what's already a bad play.  The called third strike 
    thing on Canseco was a joke, too.  Yeah, Jose, maybe that fastball 
    down the center of the plate was two inches above the belt instead of 
    just one.  Sit down, please.
    
    Agreed on leaving Welch and Honeycutt in too long.  I couldn't believe
    that LaRussa didn't call for the Eck in the eighth after Hatcher tripled
    and O'Neill walked, to pitch to Davis.  It turned out okay (maybe, maybe
    Eckersley could have come up with a couple of big strikeouts there and
    held Hatcher at third), but why hold Eckersley back, even if it isn't 
    the way he's usually used?  This is the World Series, man.  Who cares 
    who gets the save, or whether it's the ideal beginning-of-an-inning save 
    situation that the Eck usually works with?  He might even be able to go 
    the next inning with a day off before Game 3.  I consider that to be 
    very conservative managing, even if Eckersley eventually didn't seem to 
    have it anyway. 
    
    A great game.  The A's cannot be happy about the Mike Moore situation
    on Friday night.  Realistically, I think they have to hit like hell and
    win three of three in Oakland now.  If I were LaRussa, I'd move Dave
    Henderson ahead of Canseco and McGwire in the lineup against Browning.
    Those two have just not been getting the job done for over a month now.
    
    glenn
    

    The ball in the 9th was fair.  The Dibble/Canseco confrontation
    was good, but the following one to McGwire was even better.  Dibble
    blew him away for the K.
    
    Billy Hatcher is simply 'blessed' right now.  Amazing.   Why doesn't
    Canseco DH?   Because it would mean benching Baines?  They could
    play either Dave Henderson or McGee in right, I would think.
    
    Couldn't LaRussa have done a late defensive switch...j
    
    Reds are playing with confidence.  See the sullen, angry looks of
    the dazed A's when they left the field?  They must be feeling snakebit.
    They get Orelly Gibsoned in one series, they get earthquaked in
    another, and so far they are being Hatchered in this one.....must
    be tough....
    
    JD

    
    Can Baines play right field?
    
    
    
    
    Steve

    
    > Can Baines play right field?
    
    Any better than Canseco?  Hard as it may seem, doubtful...
    
    glenn
    

    re: LaRussa
    
    Tony's just suffering from DH Brain Paralysis.  (DHBP)  He'll be okay
    once the series resumes in Oakland.
    
    Heh heh!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Did anyone else's television blackout temporarily (maybe a second) on a
    couple of occassions?  It was eerie as hell, with it being the one year
    anniversary of the quake.  I wasn't sure if it was our cable system, or
    a power problem at the park.
    
    					Steve

    	Steve,
    
    	Our reception went out a coupla time for just a second or two.
    	I'm on Warner Cable in Nashua.
    
    	Scott

    Go Reds!

    re .14
    
    Of course the dugout is in play .... how many times have you seen a
    catcher or 3rd baseman go diving into the the dugout to make a great
    catch ?
    
    The key is whether or not the ball hits anything IN the dugout - then
    it's a dead ball and auto. 1-base advancement ....
    
    Doc

    Yeah, our cable flickered too. (I'm in CT)  First thing I though of 
    was earthquake.   But in Cinci ?  Naw !!  Maybe the Ohio River
    overflowed its banks.

    If the A's come back and win this thing, then they truly are a great
    team.  However, I cannot see them going back to Cincy leading 3-2.
    
    Rickey Henderson a hot dog?  I only saw one play where he hot dogged
    it, and that was after that snow cone catch.  Heck, I'd be pumpin' away 
    if I made a super catch like that too!
    
    Is a possible Canseco homer worth less than average defensive play in
    right field?  Apparantly, LaRussa feels it is.  Yeah, Jose hit one out
    last night, but I have a feeling it's the only one he's going to get.
    They definitely need some homers from McGwire and the Hendersons.
    
    BTW Chris, Dave Henderson smiles a lot because that's his style
    (personality) and he's enjoying the game and being in the World Series. 
    Is anything wrong with that, or should he be looking pissed off?
    
    Hawk

    - LaRussa is getting outmanaged right now by Pinella. 
    
    And Lou Pinella is no Joe Morgan.
    
    - Can't believe that :
    
    Canseco  wasn't challanged by Hatcher in the 8th ...
    Welch stayed in as long as he did.
    Honeycutt stayed in as long as he did - where was Scott Sanderson ?
    
    To be continued ....

    That Rickey Henderson is a hot dog is a long and well established fact
    Hawk.  In addition to the incident you mentioned he taunted Billy Bates
    in the 10th when Sabo drilled his single to left.  Trouble is
    Henderson's so good he can back up his arrogance.  (Hence my intense
    desire to konk him on the haid if I had a 99mph fastball!)
    
    I'll grant you that Dave Henderson smiles alot and generally seems to
    enjoy himself out there.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
           Stick a fork in the Hot Dogs, they're done!
    
           :-)
    

    A bit of a rathole but:
    
    an earthquake in or near Ohio is very possible.  One was centered near
    Cleveland in the spring of '86.  
    
    And the same guy who predicted the San Francisco earthquake last year
    almost to the date has predicted that the largest earthquake to shake
    North America will occur in Missouri (I think) on December 15 (I think)
    this year.  This guy is a seismologist, not a psychic.  Apparently, one
    of the biggest fault lines in the world runs the length of the
    Mississippi River.
    
    Get ready.
    
    	--dan'l

    Re: Missouri
    
    I forget when it happened, but that area has experienced one of the
    strongest earthquakes ever.  Something like 9 or 10 on the Richter
    scale.
    
    Mike

    Re .12
    
    Is a ball that is caught when a player reaches and/or falls into the
    stands an out? Yes.  Is a ball that is thrown into the stands dead? 
    Yes.  No difference with the dugout.  You don't see it happen often
    (those cement steps are hard) but is does occasionally.
    

    > Get ready.
    
    Rare Earth(quake).
    
    Hawk.

    .9�                -< Fill us in on Dibble/Canseco confrotation!! >-
    
    	"Confrotation"? What? Get it right!
    
    B.A.

    The reason Ricky and Dave Henderson smile so much is because there BUTT 
    BUDDIES!!!!!!!!!!! HA ! HA ! HA ! HA ! 
    
                             THE THRILL

    Enough of this with the badmouthing of plate stackers !! :^(  Ain't
    nothing wrong with a bubble high proud and tight.
    
    Purty funny that, after hearing 14,379 times in the last two weeks
    about how ol' .210 hitting All-Star crater face is the best defensive
    1B in the ALmost that the big lug lurches for a hot grounder and 
    overshoots his mark and comes up empty on a play that shouda been made
    and probably blew this "dynasty's" 2nd Title.  Haa.
    
    The fault in question is the New Madris Fault, which runs roughly 
    along the Mighty Mississip from way above St. Louis down through 
    Louisiana.  The New Madrid quake was during the mid-1800s  and woulda
    keelt a_estimated 100,000+ with today's population distribution.  The
    Big One is predicted to epicenter along a hot spot along the fault near
    the Missouri/Arkansas border, and was predicted by a biochemist who 
    accurately predicted the San Fran quake and others.  He is actually a
    business consultant now, and has the genius of reducing complex
    physical systems to elegant simplicity for purposes of predictions 
    that he makes for money.  His basis for the December 3 prediction (and
    he recognizes that he may be off 1-2 days either way) is that at that
    time the moon, and thus its gravitational pull, will be closer to the
    earth on that day than it has been for decades.  He's about 70 years 
    old, and since his prediction on S.F. people outside his high-powered
    corporate consultancy clientiele now take him very seriously.
    
    In a similar vein, a fight trainer from Minnesota who worked briefly
    with Buster Douglas predicted on Minneapolis TV the day before the
    fight that Buster would wear down Iron Mike with his strong jabs,
    deflect his body blows, and begin beating him up once Mike grew
    fatigued and finally knock him cold.  Which is exackally what happened.
    
    MrT
    

    
    > Purty funny that, after hearing 14,379 times in the last two weeks
    > about how ol' .210 hitting All-Star crater face is the best defensive
    > 1B in the ALmost that the big lug lurches for a hot grounder and 
    > overshoots his mark and comes up empty on a play that shouda been made
    > and probably blew this "dynasty's" 2nd Title.  Haa.
    
    Not to mention that pick-off throw that went right through him just
    moments after McCarver made the "best in AL" comments.
    
    glenn
    

    > Enough of this with the badmouthing of plate stackers !! :^(  Ain't
    > nothing wrong with a bubble high proud and tight.
    
    That's what Antoine says.  Antoine just loves plate stackers, proud and
    tight.........
    
    And now that I think of it, has anyone ever seen Antoine and MrT
    together in the same place?  Hmmmmm.......
    
    Hawk

    I still say Sid Fernandez has no equal, in baseball anyway.
    
    Everytime I watch a game in which he's pitching all I get is 19" of
    butt.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    > .....all I get is 19" of butt.
    
    Stop braggin' Chris, or I'll sent Antoine after ya....  :-)
    
    Hawk

     
                    A's Fans compared to Red Sox Fans
    
       Reading the notes i see the A's Fans in these notes are still
    sticking with them and not badmouthing them  or making excuses.
    I wonder how RedSox fans would be reacting if Boston was in the 
    same situation. When they were down 2 game to none in the American
    league series all i heard was a million excuses why they were sown, and
    most fans had already counted them out.
    
    steveo

    >        -< Ball was fair (saw chalk fly), but not by much. :^) >-
    
    Even if it landed foul there, the ball was still a fair ball.  As long
    as it hit the ground in front of the bag, and passed by the bag fairly,
    it doesn't matter where it lands.
    
    Dan

    
    No, A's fans have a little bit more reason to be confident than Sox
    fans did when down 2-0 to the A's.  And the A's are going home.
    
    glenn
    

    re .49
    
    Dan, be 4 reel .... if that was the case, then there would no reason
    for foul poles and lines right ? 
    
    The ball has to land fair *past* third base.

    re: .49
    
    All true Dan, but that ball never hit the ground in front of the bag. 
    The first time it touched mother earth after leaving Oliver's bat was
    past 3rd base.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    
    Dan's got it right.  The foul lines and poles are only for balls that
    pass third or first base on the fly.
    
    glenn
    

    
    > All true Dan, but that ball never hit the ground in front of the bag. 
    > The first time it touched mother earth after leaving Oliver's bat was
    > past 3rd base.
    
    You sure about this?  That's not what I saw.
    
    glenn
    

    >Not to mention that pick-off throw that went right through him just
    >moments after McCarver made the "best in AL" comments.
    
    Mattingly fields rings around McGwire.  McGwire is a huge target for
    infielders and does a good job scooping low throws, etc.  I think Hrbek
    and Joyner are better all-around fielders also.  I want to see more of
    Frank THomas, who's easily got the best throwing arm I've seen in a 1B.
    
    Dan

    >Dan, be 4 reel .... if that was the case, then there would no reason
    >for foul poles and lines right ? 
    
    >The ball has to land fair *past* third base.

    You're quite wrong, Doc.  The reason for foul poles and lines, if you
    want like-minded reasons, is in the case of fly balls.
    
    If you're still uncertain, I'm certainly willing to put a sawbuck or
    two on it.
    
    Dan
    

    >All true Dan, but that ball never hit the ground in front of the bag. 
    >The first time it touched mother earth after leaving Oliver's bat was
    >past 3rd base.
    
    Come again?
    
    Dan

    re: .52
    
    Are you yankin Dan's chain or did you miss that little bounce the ball
    took about thirty feet down the third baseline.

    The ball doesn't have to bounce in front of the bag.  That is why the
    foul lines run all the way to the wall.  
    
    Remember, line drives don't bounce in front of bags either, but the
    foul lines determine their validity.
    
    Mike

    >Probably ashamed at the adulation.
    
    I think you're on to something, cuz when they zoomed close ups
    on ol' .210 hitting crater face he was, you may recall this phrase
    from our past, averting his eyes.  Also, during the dugout shots
    I saw he-must-be-a-genius-cuz-he's-a-lawywer-we-all-know-how-smart-
    lawyers-are LaRussa wrinkling his brow again!  In fairness, though,
    his counterpart the recovering CLOPster Lou made a fool of himself
    when he got in over his haid in his mishandling of real-time lineup 
    tactics caused by the absence of the DG.
    
    ACCaught, you watch baseball games like you administer contests.
    As for Midnight, go e-z on him.  Baseball's obviously not his thrust
    and there's no need to humiliate him any more than he'll manage on 
    his own.
    
    MrT - Lifetime Reds Man

    I think Dan's right on this one.  If the ball touches the playing
    surface in fair territory before it passes either 1st or 3rd, and
    is untouched by a defensive player, then the key as to being fair
    or foul is whether or not it was in fair territory as it passed
    the particular base.
    
    If it doesn't touch the ground before it passes 3rd or 1st,, and then 
    touches down in foul territory, it's a foul ball.

    Why is this even a question?  I guess whether or not it did touch
    before passing the base is still questionable to some noters, but
    the rule itself shouldn't be any mystery.

    Lee

    
    Good explanation LeE! Ifn someone haid said it earlier we could've
    saved the company some disk space! 
    
    
    
    
    
    Steve

    Isn't it great?  The A's, a team that handles success well, are
    at one another's throats after a little adversity: LaRussa criticizing
    Jose's defensive jump, Stewart critcizing the scouts, ol' me-before-
    the-team Rickey criticizing Willie, unnamed players (correctly) 
    criticizing LaRussa's bonehaided 8th tactics...
    
    Reminds me of a prime time soap opera called.....  Dynasty.
    
    Haaa.
    
    MrT - Lifetime Reds Man 

    MrT, why don't you just lay back and enjoy it, especially being a
    lifetime Reds man?  All this complaining about those loser A's cain't
    help the ulcers much.  Or are you just burnin' some cal's off that wide
    butt of your's?
    
    Hawk

    I honestly didn't realize the ball had bounced once prior to settling
    down on the chalk.  
    
    If it had (and apparently everyone is in violent agreement that I'm
    wrong :^( ) then Dan is, of course, correct.
    
    
    - ACC Chris 

    While the last thing SPORTS needs is to have Dan proved correct for the
    first time in his life :-) - I stand corrected.
    
    Chris, as a convicted felon, you have infinitely more in common with     
    MorT than I do.
    
    As for McGwire, the announcers said that McGwire was the best in the AL
    *at the present time* (given Mattingly's back woes I assume). Still a
    point of contention, but it must be noted that they did qualify the
    statement before the error.
    
    As for the A's 'bickering' like I pointed out to the SoxVanes in this
    note - harmony per er is B.S. Winning is what counts ....
    
    

  �  As for McGwire, the announcers said that McGwire was the best in the AL
  �  *at the present time*    

   I'm certain what he said was:

   McGwire is the best in the AL *in the present game*

   HTH
   MikeJN
    

    Re: .10	Refering to Dibble as a "money player" would not likely
    make him very happy at the moment.  He would likely call himself a
    "lack of money player".
    
    Will the DH be in effect in Oakland?  I try to pay as little attention
    to that AL anomaly but it would help Oakland greatly.  Putting Canseco
    as DH would help as Baines was a decent outfielder with the CHISOX and
    McGee is a great one.
    
    As an anniversary reminder of the SF Quake (one day late), yesterday 
    we had a small one (4.0) centered almost right undernith the CWO 
    (Costa Mesa CA) office.  It was centered within probably a quarter mile
    away.  A small quake is not so small when you are right on top of it.
    One hellava jolt woke everyone up and I saw some OJ Simpson moves with 
    folks running for doorways!
    
    ...John

    re .68:
    
    Yes, the DH is in effect in Oakland.
    
    
    py

>    Chris, as a convicted felon, you have infinitely more in common with     
>    MorT than I do.

For cryin' out loud Doc would you get your facts straight.  I WAS DECLARED
NOT GUILTY.  I AIN'T NO FELON.  If you keep this up I might haveta bring
you up on some type of character assassination charges or somethin'.

As to MorT, well, if lying and obfuscating are crimes he's not just a felon
but a *habitual* felon.  But even psychopaths hit the truth often enough
(that's what makes 'em so difficult to diagnose) and so it is with his
evaluation of McGwire.  The Reds are blatantly pitching around an injured
Canseco to get to him - not exactly a tribute to his clutch hitting
prowess.  No way does the guy get around on a Nasty Boy heater, and his
defense looks a little, er, clumsy out there.  

    
>    As for the A's 'bickering' like I pointed out to the SoxVanes in this
>    note - harmony per er is B.S. Winning is what counts ....

Right Doc, which is exactly why the A's are bickering.  (i.e. They ain't
winnin', they're whinein'.)

All of which is not to say they won't *start* winning.  If I were the Reds
I'd forget about the 2-0 lead and just (here comes a cliche worthy of
the cliche note) 'Take 'em one game at a time'.  IMO the Reds have more
important things going for them than a simple 2-0 lead.  They have a
*psychological* edge.  Consider:

o They've broken the unbreakable Dave Stewart
o They've broken the unbreakable Eck
o They've broken the unbreakable A's

In addition the A's have shown no ability to break the unbreakable
Nasty Boys.

If the Reds remain confident they can win this thing, whether it's 4 games
to none or 4 games to 3.  Stay confident, play every game all-out to win,
and let the chips fall where they may.


- ACC Chris
    

    
    Who, exactly, are the Nasty Boys, and why?
    
    Hawk
    

    Dibble, Myers and one other player who constitute a major portion of
    the Reds bullpen, but I don't know why they're called the Nasty Boys.
    
    John

    There are 3 official Nasty Boys:
    
    o Norm Charlton
    o Rob Dibble
    o Randy Meyers
    
    They all got together at the start of the season and coined the term
    (actually I think Dibble did the coining) and it's due to the fact that
    they all throw *hard* (90+ anyway) and are nasty to go up and hit
    against.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    >I WAS DECLARED NOT GUILTY.  I AIN'T NO FELON.
    
    Doc, how *dare* you liken me to this main?!
    
    After all I've done for you and now you come 'round squatting 
    over me peenching this kinda crap O man U cain't trust nobody
    nohow noway nowadays I'll get you for this...  Chrisp, you got
    it wrong: The impartial jury bless their hearts declared you
    Not Guilty By Reason Of Criminal Insanity and specified that to
    remain in the file you had to have the demons that haunt you
    excorcised but for legal reasons the moderators were forced to
    let you remain at-large, legal technicality-style.
    
    re: World Series
    
    I forgot one back bite in my list: The contralto TV-loving Dave
    Stewart also back bit Jose Canseco in the press.  
    
    Kudos, though, to Eck for being main enough to admit he got beat
    and that he made a_error with the pitch that beat him.  Class.
    
    MrT

    Like the p_name, Stevie_boy.  Gotta get me some of that demoxinil.
    
    Hawkmer

    The A's will be the also-rans in this series because of the Ex-Cub
    factor.  The A's have more ex-Cubs than the Reds do(even LaRussa is an
    ex-Cub) and for the past few years, the team with the most ex-Cubs has
    lost the Series!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    Reds win 8-3, they're now up 3 games to none.
    
    JaKe

    It's over.  An astonishing four-game sweep by the Reds over the A's.
    
    Game 4 final was 2-1.  Jose Rijo pitched 8 1/3 innings of 2 hit ball
    and the Reds scratched out 2 runs in the 8th inning to nail it down. 
    They had lost Hatcher and Eric Davis to injuries in the early going but
    still won.
    
    Rijo was MVP but I would have picked Hatcher and Sabo as Co-MVPs.
    
    This is the most shocking World Series sweep since Baltimore swept the
    Dodgers in 1966 and the Giants swept the Indians in 1954.
    
    I think the A's can put away their "dynasty" dreams for a little while. 
    They thought they had this one in the bag.
    
    Unbelievable.
    
    Bob Hunt

    I love it!!!  Dave Stewart on the news whining about how the A's
    are much more talented, blah, blah, blah.  How if the Reds had
    to play in their division they wouldn't have made it to the World
    Series.
    
    And they say only Red Sox players whine and makes excuses......

    CONGRATULATIONS, CINCINNATI!!
    
    A well-deserved rout over the style over substance Oakland A's; nothing
    could be sweeter!
    
    A few thoughts:
    
    o I find it amusing that Dave Stewart would run his mouth like he did,
      cause my initial observation (well documented too ;^) ) was that this
      was no mismatch.  The Reds are a very, very fine team with no
      weaknesses, and they proved as much.  My fear is that all the focus 
      will be on the A's and their horrendous showing.  My thoughts are 
      that even if the A's hadn't fallen flat on their faces and played
      good ball the Reds could still have beaten them.  They were capable
      of beating Oakland even if the A's were at their best.  
    
    o Tony LaRussa, for my money, is too 'robotic'.  Joe Morgan gets
      accused of managing by the seat of his pants, but I'll tell ya,
      sometimes that's what ya gotta do!  He stuck with his starters
      too long (game 3 was simply ridiculous) and held Eckersley out 
      for his 1-dimensional closer role.  In game 4 the Reds had 
      threatened 2 innings in a row and were threatening again.  You
      need a strike out, you've got a strike out pitcher in the pen
      (Eck), and yet I don't think Tony even *considered* bringing him
      in.  THERE'S NO TOMORROW, MAN!
    
    o I probably would've given the MVP to Hatcher or Sabo too, although
      Eric Davis' 2-run homer in Game 1 seemed to somehow be the most
      devastating blow in the Series.  Hate to say it, but the A's seemed
      to lack some heart.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Has there ever been another world series that ended on a foul pop up?
    
    I realize that's a trivial question, but all the images of WS victories
    I have in my mind end with a ground out, fly out, or strike out.  The
    way game 4 ended just seemed slightly askew.
    
    Thanks.
    
    	--dan'l

                            
    The Reds were clearly the better and more deserving team.  Forget Dave
    Stewart's 162-game comments.  If the Reds are healthy all year (namely 
    their starting pitching staff of Rijo, Jackson, Browning, Armstrong, 
    and Scudder/Charlton), and the A's the same (Canseco, Weiss), I think
    the Reds are better.  I agree with the statements that the NL is the
    better league at the top right now than the AL.
    
    I thought Rijo was a most deserving MVP.  Several players contributed
    to the offense, most notably Hatcher and Sabo, but Rijo went out and
    dominated *two* games in a four game series.  You don't get much better
    than that.  If Davis had held that ball in Game 4 (which he would have
    had he not seriously injured himself), Rijo doesn't give up a run
    the entire series in two near-complete games.
    
    Dave Stewart now wants to take on Rob Dibble after Dibble criticized
    him for hitting Hatcher.  "You tell Rob Dibble he's a punk, and tell
    him I said it.  He's stupid, he doesn't know how to pitch.  He's got a
    fastball and that's it.  You tell Rob Dibble to come back and talk to
    me when he's won 20 games or saved 40.  He's not even on my level." 
    Stewart then went on to dismiss Dibble as a blowhard and said he'd
    "kick his butt" if Dibble wanted to discuss the matter face-to-face
    (quotes from The National).  Is there space in that rubber room with
    Clemens for Stewart?  Is he stressed?  [Stewart is now 2-3 in World
    Series play, by the way.]
    
    glenn
    

    Dibble simply should've shut his mouth.  Clearly, Stewart was not
    aiming to hit Hatcher.  I agree, that Dibble is a punk and needs his
    clock cleaned.  No rubber room necessary for Stewart.......
    
    Good sport that Dibble, eh?  Let's kick 'em when they're down......
    
    Hawk

    Even Chris Sabo said that the Reds had a "Great start ... and great
    ending ... and a lot of mediocre ball in between".
    
    The Reds played a fantastic series, and the A's bats went almost
    completely dead (except for Rickey Henderson). Toss in some great
    starting pitching by Rijo (who was in one of his patented hot streaks),
    and the great bullpen of Cincinatti, and a dose of bad managing by
    LaRussa, and there you have it.
    
    The A's won 101 games, you don't do that with smoke and mirrors. They
    simply got outplayed in the series, but all of these wagon-jumpers who
    are now insisting that the Reds could whip the A's anytime (where the
    hell was these people a week ago ?) are really tripping.
    
    The Reds are a good, above-average team that got really hot at the
    right time. Let's just remember that most people felt that they
    wouldn't get past the Pirates - and with good reason.
    
    The A's will learn from this and be back again - but will the Reds ?
    
    Hmmm ......
    
    DrM

dave stewert is a crybaby and whiner. He whined when he didn't 
win the Cy Young, twice. He whined when the Red's won the 1st 2 
games and pinned the blame on the scouting. He was pounded in both
his starts, but if you listened to dave you'd learn that almost 
everyone else is to blame except dave stewert.

Now he's whining again. 

Shut up Dave, we're sick of you.

daryll

    I agree that Stewart has shown a talent for whining lately.  It has
    helped improve Michael Jackson album sales, however.....  :-)
    
    Hawk

    No stats available, but it sure seems to me that the A's hitting
    was waaaaaay of, both during the WS and the series with the Sox.
    
    Lots of singles, but few extra base hits.
    
    Anyone got the numbers?
    
    Lee

    re .86
    
    > Clearly, Stewart was not aiming to hit Hatcher.
    
       Clear to you perhaps, but not to me.  It was a "message" pitch.
       Hatcher had been ripping the A's and Stewart wanted to send a
       warning to the Reds.  Now. I'm not saying Stewart deliberately
       threw at Hatcher, but based on his attitude it wouldn't surprise me.
       
       Bob V.
    

    > They simply got outplayed in the series, but all of these wagon-jumpers 
    > who are now insisting that the Reds could whip the A's anytime (where the
    > hell was these people a week ago ?) are really tripping.
    
    Where were these so-called wagon-jumpers?  Why right here, of course.
    Here's my note before the series even started, just in case ya missed
    it:
    
           <<< OURGNG::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;2 >>>
                 -< OURGNG::SPORTS - Digital's daily tabloid >-
================================================================================
Note 226.203            Pgh. Pirates NL East Champs 1990              203 of 204
RHETT::KNORR "Carolina Blue"                         16 lines  14-OCT-1990 19:22
                                -< Reds in 7. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Congrats to Zinzinnati - terrific season that'll now be capped off by a
    trip to the World Series.
    
    I'm not quite as pessimistic about the Reds chances.  The only clear
    superiority I give the A's at this point is their starting pitching,
    but given the way Cinci performed against a good hitting team like
    Pittsburgh even that's not a given.
    
    The Reds play solid defense (spectacular against the Bucs, actually),
    have some power, have great speed, and have the games best bullpen.
    
    This doesn't sould like the stuff of a mismatch.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    

    
    The Athletics are a bunch of crybabies.  All this stuff about
    Cincinnati "outplaying" an otherwise "superior" team is horse manure.
    A sweep doesn't prove much, does it?
    
    Steve

    The A's are the first World Series team to sweep one year and get swept
    the next!
    
    My hats off to the Reds for doing to Oakland as Oakland did to Boston!
    Stewart has no excuse to berate Clemens now.  What a whiner!
    
    BTW - Hatcher, who is a native of Williams, Arizona, has just had his
    high school baseball field named after him!  His whole family still
    lives there.  He was the 8th of 11 children!
    
    Mike

    Just read Scott Ostler's article in today's The National (pg. 2), which
    says it all in a Dave Barry sort of way, about the A's whining and who
    the best team really is.  Good reading.  I especially liked his Sam
    Kinison "impression" in the end of the column......
    
    Hawk

    I think that Stew was sending a message at Hatcher by pitching inside -
    that's baseball. But I doubt seriously that he was headhunting. As hard
    as Steward throws, a beanball would have done more than bruise his
    wrist .....

    And why would you hit a guy with an 0-2 count?
    
    NAZZ

Cincy led their division from Day 1, took the NLCS, and then
swept the Series.  Kind of makes sense to me....



Glad baseball's finally over, too.


'Saw

    The Seattle Times had a pretty good article on the A's yesterday
    - and said are "The A's getting old?"
    
    Talked about chinks in the seemingly invincible armour of the A's.
    
    1)  McGwire's batting average has dropped each year that he's been
         in the league (Dave Stapleton effect..) from a high of .285
         to this year's .237
    
    2)  Some key performers are getting old:  Lansford, Stewert, Eck,
        Dave Henderson
    
    3)  Jose Canseco's fragile body, and the effect his huge contract
        is having on the team (Canseco bashing and hometown fan booing)
    
    4)  The possibility of Welch leaving to sign with Detroit, and whether
        or not they can sign McGee
    
    5)  The horrible season of Mike Moore - experts said he lost a lot
        in one year - was it an aberration or the start of a decline?
    
    Food for thought:  If Welch leaves, Moore doesn't regain his form,
    and Stewert even falters a little, this team's starting pitching
    is a shambles.  And if the Eck even has a slighlty subpar year,
    they are in trouble.
    
    Of course, the article still went on to say they are the most talented
    team in teh AL and is the team to beat, but that the aura of greatness
    has been tarnished.
    
    JD

>    1)  McGwire's batting average has dropped each year that he's been
>         in the league (Dave Stapleton effect..) from a high of .285
>         to this year's .237
    
    'cause everyone knows now that he can't hit a curve to say his life!
    
    Mike

    >Has there ever been another world series that ended on a foul pop up?
    
    I'll bet there's been a few which fits in well with the incidence of
    foul pop ups in baseball.  I can remember one off the top of my head -
    1978, Gossage pitching to the Dodgers (forget the batter).  Popup, back
    of the plate.  Munson under it, catches it, and the Yanks win!
    
    Dan

    The best thing about this World Series is that it leaves the Yankees as
    baseball's last dynasty!  Hoo-ray!
    
    Dan

    BTW, for all us McGwire bashers, how 'bout the error he got charged
    with in the endless 2nd inning in game 3?  I believe only 2 of the Reds
    7 runs that inning were earned, thanks to his big E.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I've only seen a few quotes of the A's, but they doesn't befit a league
    champion.  If you get swept, and your hitting doesn't show up, then
    you GOT to credit the other team.
    
    By throwing darts at the Reds, the A's are debasing their own stature
    in baseball.
    
    They are the best team in the AL.  The Reds are the best in the
    NL and the "world".
    
    Sour grapes never taste good.
    
    Stewart's comments are cheap and whiney.  But, they aren't in the same
    catagory as Clemenses.

    Is Canseco still worth his salary?
    
    Lee

    While it doesn't matter much now anyway, I don't think McGwire's error
    was entirely his fault.  The pitcher (Welch?) threw him a curve ball,
    which clearly baffled McGwire.  Before they announced the error, I
    honestly thought it was going to be charged to the pitcher.......
    
    Hawk

    That's a good one Hawk! ;-)  McGwire can't hit curves and now he can't
    catch them either ;-)
    
    Mike

    Hadn't looked at it that way, Mike.  You're right!
    
    Hawk

    You'll have to excuse me, Chris, I'm still feeling the lingering
    effects of the worst flu I've ever experienced.  Add the fact that I've
    had very few brewskies in the lastest 3 weeks, and you can clearly
    understand why I confuse everyone around me.......
    
    HTH.
    
    Hawk

    Mr. he's-a-genius-cuz-he's-a-lawyer-we-all-know-what-big-genius-
    laywers-are-just-lookit-'Merica Tony La Russa - the animal rights
    activist - managed to outdo his dumb performance from two years
    ago this year.
    
    EVIDENCE: The A's do not do well under pressure, they fall apart,
    which tales ya something about the manager.  La Russa blew critical
    moments both in Cincy and Oakland.  He failed to control his players
    and ended up with a_open feud between Rick "SuperPout" Henderson
    and Willie McGee and it went unresolved.  When things went bad he
    seemed more concern about protecting his own image and blasted a_
    injured player for not making a very tough catch when in fact the
    *manager* blew the game by having a 98 year old arthritic catcher
    in the game to drop the game-losing peg at the plate.  Here's a 
    snapshot of La Russa genius lawyer animal rights activist leadership
    in action: Dave Stewart criticizing the scouts, Rickey on McGee, 
    Steinbach on the manager, SuperStar on the manager, the manager on
    SuperStar...
    
    You get the idea.  To understand just how geeky this overrated 
    coddled bunch of prisses has got understand that after a devastating
    loss in game two the extremely overrated "superstar" MacGwire had the
    nerve to complain publicy that a play that he clearly bungled was 
    ruled a_error!
    
    The only A's with any class in the Series were Carney and Eck, who
    happen to both be ex-BoSox.
    
    Hopefully, the rifts put in place by La Russa's mishandling of the
    team the past week will tear it apart for good.  But no, Alderson
    will just go out and hypnotize another GM and sign another passel
    of high quality talent to cover for his dunderhaided wrinkle brow.
    
    MrT  

    Sorta suprises me that noone started an 
    
     "Oakland A's Fold File"
    
    Oakland is changing the A from meaning Athletics to A$$holes.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    All true T, but you missed the part where LaRussa is most guilty -
    handling his pitchers.
    
    In yesterdays USA Today the Cinci GM (Quinn, the ex-Yank) commented
    that Lou Piniella seems to have great instincts for when to yank a
    pitcher.  
    
    Contrast this with LaRussa, who seems paralyzed to make a move unless
    elements fit into some type of complex mathematical algorithm.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I saw some stats this morning, which show the A's hitting .207 in
    the series, vs. 317 for the Reds.
    
    ERA's were quite different, as could be expected.  The A's were
    over 4, the Reds just over 2, if I remember right.
    
    I'd still like to know what the A's hit against the Sox.
    
    Anybody?
    
    Lee

   � In yesterdays USA Today the Cinci GM (Quinn, the ex-Yank) commented
   � that Lou Piniella seems to have great instincts for when to yank a
   � pitcher.  
    
    Yeah, like yanking Jose Rijo after he had retired 20 straight batters
    and was getting stronger with each pitch.
    
    Admittedly, the move worked as Randy Myers got the final 2 outs but
    Sweet Lou would have been roasted to a crackly crunch if the A's had
    taken control at that very point.
    
    Bob Hunt

    	Bob,
    
    	I sure thought Lou shoulda left Rijo in. I mean, he was
    	shutting them down pretty well. I wonder if Rijo was
    	mad, or what.
    
    	Scott

    I read that when Lou went to the mound, Rijo said "Do what you have
    to do"  That, to Lou, translated to some indecision on Rijo's part,
    and cemented the idea of yanking him.  Supposedly, if Rijo was
    confident, he would have told Lou.  It was a 1 run ballgame - one
    swing by Jose CantIhit could have tied it.   Good move by Lou.
    
    Remember - this was for the World Championship!   
    
    JD

>    I read that when Lou went to the mound, Rijo said "Do what you have
>    to do"  That, to Lou, translated to some indecision on Rijo's part,
>    and cemented the idea of yanking him.  Supposedly, if Rijo was
>    confident, he would have told Lou.  It was a 1 run ballgame - one
>    swing by Jose CantIhit could have tied it.   Good move by Lou.
    
     Actually, it was the left-hander, Harold Baines, who was the scheduled
     hitter, and who had hit the Series' longest HR the night before off
     Tom Browning.  Canseco pinch hit for Baines when Lou brought in Myers.

>    Contrast this with LaRussa, who seems paralyzed to make a move unless
>    elements fit into some type of complex mathematical algorithm.
    
    I had a chemistry teacher like this once.  He foamed algebra at the
    mouth but couldn't tie his shoes by himself.  
    
    The truly intelligent man has common sense as well as book-smarts!
    
    Mike

    Thank you, Mike.
    
    Lee

    The funniest quote i've heard is Canceso's wife calling Larussa a PUNK
    for not starting Jose in the last game.  It's obvious to me that Dave
    Parker was the glue to that team last year.  They missed him on the
    field and off.
    
    ra

    
    hosehead and his  wife belong together..
    
    
    dinz
    

    
    I wouldn't mind getting together with "hosehead's" wife.  :-)  
    
    Hawk

    
    Jose:  "Can you believe that guy taking me out of the lineup?  Well,
            SCREW HIM!"
    
    Mrs. Jose:  "I did.  You're batting cleanup tomorrow."
    
    Dickster
    

Hawk, you probably couldn't afford her price.....

    yeah stupidity is really expensive!