Conference 7.286::sports_90

    While this will probably be moved to a more appropriate place by the
    moderator, I can answer the question.  Karlis was a holdout.  Igwebuike
    kicked so well as a replacement that the Vikings have told Karlis to
    take a hike.
    
    John

Perhaps the moderator or original author can change the title of
the topic to "Minnesota Vikings Topic" and we can use it for that,
unless that topic already exists....

'Saw

    This has gotten to be a_annual thing with Rich: His stupid agent
    tales him to holdout, he does, only to be released when his team
    (first the Broncos now the Vikes) signs a better kicker.
    
    Karlis was holding out for $425K, Igweibuike will boot for about
    $310 this year.
    
    The real mystery in all of this is why ol' dumb bunny, the coach
    down in Tampa, would release a kicker who is considered among the
    most accurate of all time.  Too bad he's not the Jets coach still.
    Perkins explained that he got rid of Iggy cuz he couldn't kick deep
    on kick offs.  Each kick off against the Cheifs Sunday was a touch
    back, except for one late in the game where the return man got
    frustrated and tried to run it out ill advisedly and got nailed on
    the 9 yard line.
    
    The Vikes may have the best kicker in the league now.  If they only
    had a punter...
    
    MrT

    Hey Ray ... what about doing what a lot of NFL teams do, and let the
    punter kick off ???
    
    nah, makes too much sense....

    Perkins' release of Iggy ranks with the most inexplicable of all
    waivers.  If they didn't like his free spirit personality, they
    shoulda put him up for grabs and watched the 2nd and 3rd round
    draft choice plus cash offers roll in.  He's among at least the
    top 3 of all FG kickers, and the Dykes got him for nuttin'.  
    
    Btw, not being a_amatuerish outfit like the Bucs, Mike Lynn is
    hanging onto Karlis under contract and seeing what he cain get for
    him.  It's costing him a few bucks, but he knows that after a few
    missed big kicks over the next week or two he'll get a trade offer
    from some aggreived squad.
    
    MrT

      I wonder if Karlis' agent told him to jump off a cliff, and 
    if Richie would do it?   Probably would;^^
    
    
      Tim

    Hugh Culverhouse dropped the big bomb yesterday as to why they 
    released Iggy, one a the NFL's most accurate kickers:  He allegedly
    tested positive for alcohol.  That's right, alcohol.  Also, there
    is a story going around that he lied about his age being 29 and 
    may in fact actually be, by Hugh's guess, either 31 or 34.
    
    Are these guys in Tampa Bay sad-sacks or what.  Say, isn't that 
    where the deposed failed industrialist heir Gorge SpendBlender hails
    from?  
    
    Iggy's response to these grave accusations was, "hey, I'm young and
    single and I like to have fun.  Yes, I admit it: I've experimented
    with alcohol, I've drunk beers.  If drinking beer is a sin, I'm a
    sinner.  Convict me."
    
    Welcome to Minnesoulta, Iggy.  I luv ya already.
    
    MrT

    The Vikes have become, over the last 3 years, something of a case
    study in underachievment.  Lotsa talent, lotsa big game losses and
    no Super Bowl appearance.  Hail, till the Chicago Bares (tm) finally 
    went back to their Abe Gibron/Bobby Douglass roots last year, the
    Vikes hadn't even won the lousy NFC Central for a decade.
    
    The standard answer is: No heart.  I'd like to posit a_alternative:
    Crummy game coaching on the offense.  Their inexcusable loss to the
    Cheifs is a perfect case-in-point.  4 minutes to go, on a drive, a
    fourth down and a foot at the 30 yard line with the choice of either
    kicking for a 7 point lead or getting the first down and running down
    the clock and maybe taking a_11 point lead.  
    
    So what do the coaches choose to do?  Why, what they've always chosen
    to do in crucial game situations the past five years: Make it as
    difficult as possible on themselves by choosing a ridiculous play.
    
    Here's what they did: First thing, they put Herschel Walker, the big
    muscular hammer-stud they traded 5 draft choices and 5 players for,
    on the sideline to rest.  Second, they put in Alan Rice to replace the 
    hammer-stud at running back.  On the lockerroom depth Alan's ranked as 
    the team's fourth best RB, not to mention the smallest.  Third, they
    put in at OT a substitute for a_injured starter, a guy they'd pick up
    off the waiver wire a few days earlier.
    
    Then, but of course: They handed the ball to the halfback, Rice,
    instead of the fullback.  Rice ran away from the left side of the
    Vike's line, you know, the side with the two All-Pros, and instead
    directly to the hole blocked by the no-name waiver wire refugee.  Not
    being a big man, Rice lost yardage.
    
    And the Vikes lost the game.
    
    Duhhh.
    
    MrT
                                                 

Tested positive for ALCOHOL????

Shee-yit!

On any given day in here, you could probably find traces of alcohol
in me, when you come right down to it.

I got to rugby practice Tues and Thurs.  After practice I got to the
bar to get a burger or sandwich and have a pint or two with the
guys.  If you tested me on Wed and Friday morning, I'd probably show
traces too.

And he lied about his age?  What were they gonna do?  Marry him???

Too funny!

'Saw

    If he's got an alcohol problem, Igwebuike will fit right in with the
    Vikings.
    
    They gonna give him driving lessons soon ???
    
    Bob Hunt

    Re: Iggy testing positive for alcohol
    
    The bar tab for the Viking New Year's party just went up.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    
    re -1
    
    It should stay about the same, Kramer's gone.
    
    

    >    It should stay about the same, Kramer's gone.
      
      Maybe he goes back for reunions or happy-hour.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.
    

    re .13
    
    Bruce, at least in Minnesota they suck on beers.  How're your
    precious 49ers doin', btw?
    
    MrT

    
    "T-ing off" on everybody today, eh T?  Musta been the mushrooms
    in the spaghetti sauce.
    
    Dickster
    

    
    
    49ers are in first place, with the main competition a game back after
    one game.  With the way the D looked, they are in great shape for a 3
    peat.
    
    BTW-- I didn't just see you wardling over to the Bengals now that the
    Vikes lost, did I?  Your buddy Page will be urinated.
    
    
    Bruce
    
    

Bruce,

 The O looked good against that tough Aints D....

daryll

    	I watched the entire games last night. Just as I was
    	getting to sleep, my wife wakes up and starts yelling,
    	"Back up, back up." She musta thought we were in the
    	car, or something. I'm a little groggy this morning.
    
    	Herschel looked awful. He fumbled a couple and let the
    	punt go through his arms.
    
    	Chris Carter (formerly of the Eagles) looked good. He scored
    	on two pass plays. On the first touchdown, he was W I D E open.
    	I mean, the defender was way out of position.
    
    	I though Gannon looked good. He made a few mistakes, but overall
    	looked like a good QB.
    
    	Waters does look like he's trying to injure someone.
    
    	I thought the refs made some bad calls. The one where the Viking
    	player was called down was awful. It was clearly a fumble; the
    	Eagles recovered and ran it back I believe for (what woulda been)
    	another TD.
    
    	I think the last coupla Monday night games have been real good.
    
    	Scott (Too groggy to remember it all)

    � Herschel looked awful. He fumbled a couple and let the	punt go
    � through his arms.
    
    I don't know what is on Herschel's mind these days.  Maybe he's been
    sniffing the freon at the bobsled tracks.  But, I thought that Gifford,
    Michaels, and Dierdorf were about ready to declare "National Herschel
    Walker Mourning Day" the way they consistently tried to tell us how
    sorry they felt for him.
    
    � Chris Carter (formerly of the Eagles) looked good. He scored on two
    � pass plays. On the first touchdown, he was W I D E open.  I mean, the
    � defender was way out of position.
    
    And Buddy Ryan said he couldn't go deep so he cut him.   Nice move,
    Buddy.   However, Carter was wide open on his first TD only because the
    defender, Izel Jenkins, bit big time on the flea flicker fake.
    
    � I though Gannon looked good. He made a few mistakes, but overall	
    � looked like a good QB.
    
    Gotta love them Delaware Blue Hens ...
    
    � I thought the refs made some bad calls. The one where the Viking	
    � player was called down was awful. It was clearly a fumble; the	
    � Eagles recovered and ran it back I believe for (what woulda been)	
    � another TD.
    
    They evened out in the end.  The Eagles got a gift TD on an inbounds
    call but the Vikes got it back when Herschel's fumble was ruled dead.
    
    A terrible, terrible game.   The Eagles got the "W" but they still got
    beaucoup problems.  The Vikes just have problems.
    
    Bob Hunt
    

                                                        
    > A terrible, terrible game.   The Eagles got the "W" but they still got
    > beaucoup problems.  The Vikes just have problems.
    
    Is it just me or is this becoming a trend with nationally televised NFL
    games?  I turned the TV over to a Nixon documentary on PBS I was so
    bored, ferchrissakes.  Then I turn back at 11 PM and they're only just
    starting the second half with a penalty on the kickoff, and Dierdorf
    points out that the Eagles are on course to break the all-time penalty
    and yardage records.  That was all I needed to hear.
    
    glenn
     

    I'm glad I wasn't working last night's game.  If I had, I probably
    would have been a basket case by the end of it.  Most of our
    statistical problems come when people can't hold onto the ball and they
    certainly couldn't hold onto it last night.
    
    Yo, Bob Hunt, you don't have to love the Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
    when your alma mater is 0-14 against them lifetime, dude.  I'm
    beginning to feel the same way about Delaware that you felt towards
    Clemson.
    
    John

    I was hammered at a bar lasted night and didn't catch the reasoning for
    not giving the Iggles the TD on the Walker fumble.

    Has Minnesota management set the firing date for Jerry Burns yet???
    If not, I think they will soon.
    
    When Burns gets fired, look for Lou Holtz to jump Notre Dame ship and
    take the reigns over for the Vikes.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Any word on A. Carter hamstring?? He hurt it the Monday night game with
    the off week I was wondering if he was playing this week? 
    
    
    
    Neil

Burns has agreed to finish out the year.

The clod from N.D. will take over next season.

The way these guys are playing, they deserve good old Lou.

daryll

If Burns loses at Home against the Donks... 

He should be fired. Same wif Hershal Walker if he caint gain yds vs Denver
Fire him. 

    
    I can't believe that Lou is that popular in Minnesota, after the stuff
    he pulled with the Gophers.  It is pretty clear to me that he used UM
    as a holding ground until Gerry Faust got fired at ND.
    
�RSST6::RIGGEN "Burley from biking" 
    
    This p-name always reminded me of an old Three Stooges routine.  A
    reporter walks up to Curley and says "I'm Brown from the Sun", to which
    Curley replies "that's too bad, are ya peelin'?"
    
    =Bob who-used-to-know-every-line=

    > I can't believe that Lou is that popular in Minnesota, after the stuff
    > he pulled with the Gophers.  It is pretty clear to me that he used UM
    > as a holding ground until Gerry Faust got fired at ND.
    
    I read in the paper this weekend that one of the media outlets in
    Minneapolis ran a sizable poll (survey of 1000 voters) and that it ran
    about 85% to 15 *against* Holtz.  That's a very negative sentiment,
    probably even worse than his popularity ratings in Arkansas after they
    found out he was getting paid by Jesse Helms to do campaign spots back
    in North Carolina.  I'm not sure the guy has *ever* left a job in good
    standing (maybe NC State?). 
    
    glenn
    

    Is D.J. Dozier still a Viking or was he cut/traded?  Seems to me that
    he never lived up to his potential, but I think anything is better than
    Herchal Dropper.
    
    	--dan'l

    re .32:
    
    D.J. Dozier is pursuing a career in baseball; he spent the summer playing 
    for one of the Mets' single-A farm teams.  Don't know if he's still
    Viking property or not.
    
    
    py

    A few things about our dreadful Vikings:
    
    Burns WILL finish out the season, no matter how bad it gets.  He had
    thoughts of resigning after the Philly Shame Game (for both sides -
    Was that the most inept, pathetic football game you ever saw by
    officials and both teams involved?  I would have been embarrassed to
    say I was there) Anyway, Burns was talked into staying for the rest of
    the year.  Hey, it's not his fault.  This is the same team that has
    128 Pro Bowlers and yes they've had injuries, but c'mon...
    
    Herschel is history after this year.  I've even heard that Lynn will
    take him to the W-LAF.  I guess he could be top joke there!  :*)
    If you didn't hear, Herschel fumbled on the Vikes opening offensive
    play last Sunday vs. the Pack.  Burns was smart and gave him only three
    carries for the second game in a row.  Herschel keeps saying that
    Herschel needs to carry the ball more.  Well Herschel, when Herschel
    shows us Herschel can hold on to it better than 50% of the time, maybe
    Herschel will carry it more.  (If you don't know, Herschel is third
    person guy)  
    
    DJ Dozier is still Vikings property, but wants to be traded.  He played
    minor league ball through training camp and into the first couple of
    games.  It appears now that if he does play in the NFL, it will not be
    with the Vikes.  It sounds like he is progressing quite nicely in
    baseball though, and may be in AAA next year.
    
    Gannon had done OK.  He is just getting his chance now, but has really
    passed quite awful the last couple of games.  His turnovers have killed
    the Vikes.  I guess I'm one of the few, but I like Wilson and look for
    him to be the starter without question when he returns in December.
    It don't matter now though, these guys were buried a couple of weeks
    ago against Detroit.
    
    My hope is that they come back strong next year ala the Bears this
    year.
    
    And NO, we don't want any Lou *^&%$ Holtz here.  I thought I heard the 
    players had a vote and it was something like 82%-18% against as well.
    Lou, you can sling that BS only so long...  
    The Pros are a completely different game and rah-rah aint gonna work.
    You thought Les Steckel was bad...
    
    
    Spud

Vikes looked pretty good last night overcoming a 16 point 
deficit. 

Nice to see since they could've rolled over after the 1st qtr.

And hey, they're actually throwing to AC again!

daryll

    Anyone else think back to the Donk/Skins Superbowl during last night's
    game?
    
    When will the Donks learn that you have to play both halfs?
    
    Mark.

    More on Dozier:
    
    DJ states in this morning's paper that he has been invited to the Mets
    major league camp next spring.  He just returned from a Mets
    instructional league and says that depending on whether Strawberry
    returns to the Mets next year, he will either be in AAA or AA.
    
    
    Spud

    ESPN ran another episode of a regular program last night called "NFL's
    Greatest Moments".  This is *not* new footage and it's probably been
    shown at least 2 or 3 dozen times previously.
    
    But part of the show was about old No. 30, Bill Brown, of the Vikings. 
    The old crew cut, the bloody nose, the running into the goal posts, the
    cold weather in Minnesota, the whole thing ...
    
    And it dawned on me (one more time) that if any professional sports
    team was ever affected more drastically by a move inside to a dome, I
    haven't seen it.   The Minnesota Vikings are just not the same team
    anymore and I don't see them *EVER* winning a title indoors.   No dirt,
    no cold, no icy breathing, no bare-armed linemen, no intimidation.
    
    They've got the players who can play outside.  Doleman, Millard,
    Browner, and so on can all be vicious inside or out but somehow the old
    Viking mystique is just plain gone.  And the dome did it.
    
    Bob Hunt

�    returns to the Mets next year, he will either be in AAA or AA.
                                                                ^^    
    
�    Spud

	Sad to see another Viking with a drinking problem.

				/Don

Bob --

Good point.  

There's a team psyche that gets fed by that tough stuff.  It grows,
and it's inside you and you develop a fierce pride about it.
That pride is what enables you to win when it's tough to win.

I've seen it cultivated on the Wanderers this year.  We've been
worked horrendously hard over the course fo the season, and the
reason we've been given is that in the last ten minutes of
a game we want to be fitter than the other team.  It's tough to
be that way, but that's the goal.

That knowledge gets you through, and the pride in that toughness
enables you to keep going and win.


I'm sure the Vikings have lost a lot of that.  I remember the
no heater sidelines under Bud Grant....that shit builds character,
and character builds pride, and pride wins football games...

Bill Brown...whatta player!

'Saw

    I grew up a Vikes fan as a kid, Tarkenton, Foreman, Gilliam, Page, et
    al ... and I remember how the visiting teams in general and the Rams in
    particular would be psyched out by the Vikes at the old Met.
    
    That edge was worth a few wins a year, and was a HUGE edge in the
    playoffs .... in bad weather, it seemed like the Vikes were unbeatable.
    
    Remember how the Rams always had to go up to Bloomington to get their
    hearts broken in the NFC title game ? Then in 77 or 78, Tarkenton broke
    his ankle, and the Vikes had to play the Rams in LA. 
    
    Piece of cake - LA finally at home, and Minnesota had to start Bob
    Lee in place of Fran - easy win for the Rams, right ?
    
    Except that nobody reckoned on LA getting dumped with about a foot of
    rain - haven't seen that before or since. And when you took one look at
    the LAC (it was a friggin quagmire) , you knew the Vikes would do it
    again.
    
    And they did, 14-7.
    
    Those were the days ....
    
    Doc

    
    Too many domes and too much phonyturf in the NFL all-around these
    days... with great franchises like the Colts moving from the dirt of 
    Memorial Stadium to the squeaky-clean carpet of an inflatable dome in 
    a Midwestern city where they probably ask "Johnny who?".  Watching the 
    first half-hour of the game last night (it was all I could take) all 
    that came to mind was what a once-great old NFL matchup like the 
    Colts-Giants had become.  I'm not usually much for old-fogey 
    sentimentality, but the NFL can't be any better off for the changes 
    they've made.
    
    glenn
       

    > I grew up a (fill in the name of any NBA, NFL, or MBA team) fan 
    > as a kid, ...
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    > I grew up a (fill in the name of any NBA, NFL, or MBA team) fan 
>    > as a kid, ...

'Fess up, Chris. You ain't never grown up. You're still all Baby Blue.

TTom

    Actually Chris should say :
    
    I (ACCCaught) ran many rigged contests as a kid [insert basketball,
    marbles, whatever] ......

Bob,

>>    But part of the show was about old No. 30, Bill Brown, of the Vikings. 
>>    The old crew cut, the bloody nose, the running into the goal posts, the
>>    cold weather in Minnesota, the whole thing ...
  
That's so true - what an image those teams had.  Reminds me of the time that
Joe Kapp tried to hurdle someone - I think it was Walter Johnson of the Browns
- and came up a bit short so that his knee almost went through Johnson's
forehaid.  I think it took about ten minutes with smelling salts and all to
get Johnson on his feet.

Right there a lot of people thought it was gonna take some doin' to beat a
team like that.

Indeed it did, since I'm pretty sure that was the year that they went to the 
Super Bowl highly favoured and got whipped by the Chiefs.

rick ellis

    Wasn't it only about a week ago that I asked, "Where is DJ Dozier?"  Well
    he just signed a contract to return to the Vikings and he will begin
    practice today.
    
    I don't think Dozier will help much.  Curt Warner was Waived by the Rams. 
    How about that potential Penn State backfield?  Nah!
    
    	--dan'l

    What happened to Igwebweke?  He wasn't kicking last night.  I thought
    all that trouble was cleared up.
    
    	--dan'l

    Nice catch AC.
    
    Vikes are now very much a force in the playoff picture.  Sure didn't
    expect it after their 1-6 start.  Defense has looked as good as ever
    the last few weeks.  They forced six turnovers vs. the Bears and five
    vs. the Pack last night.  
    
    Did Noga make Manderich look like a HS player?
    
    
    Spud

    Iggy was indicted last I heard...

       Walt's right, he was given a leave of absence to clear up 'personal
    problems'.
                                        Denny

    Thats alright by me.................Faud Rivee (sp) seems to me a
    consistent and fairly strong kicker. Looked good against the Pack.
    
    Look for a BIG upset in Jersey this weekend against the Gints.
    
    Vikes-26
    Gints-20
    
    Purple Blooded

    only upset in jersey yesterday was Bill Parcells ill effects from
    
    kidney stones
    
    
    dinz
    

    Dins, where ya been?  I was gettin worried about ya. 

He hasn't had much to say the past couple of weeks.

That seems to have changed....

daryll

    Does anybody out there know of Wilson' progress, return time?
    I've seen him the last 2 games on the sidelines suited up and ready
    to play. I hope they're not waiting for Gannon to be injured before
    they use him. Get him in there now IMO; not that Gannon is doing a
    poor job, but get Wade some playing time in these last three games so 
    that when Post-season is upon us, the man is warmed, refamiliarized
    and ready to kick some butt. Assuming they make it to Post-season!!
    
    Looking to bounce back next weekend.
    Purple Blooded

    
    Last I heard was that Gannon had earned the # 1 spot and he's the
    starter unless he fails to perform.   Unfortunately for the Vikes one
    loss could eliminate them.
    
    This was from some commentator as I flipped between games so it may not
    be totally accurate.
    
    Pat
    

    hi bruce,
    
    Good one  daryll, but i didnt have much to say during the giants
    
    10 game winning streak either, too much going on, only time for
    
    me to realistically get in here is  before normal working hrs.
    like 630 est :)).
    
    dinz
    

    Raiders are gonna kick some Viking butt this saturday!
    
    Raiders - 24
    Vikings - 17
    
    Carlos

    Vikings have 4 players starting in this years Pro-Bowl:
                 Guard - Randall McDaniel
                   End - Chris Doleman
            Cornerback - Carl Lee
                Safety - Joey Browner
    
     Kind of surprised to hear that Anthony Carter didn't make the squad...
     even as a non-starter.
    
    Big, big win coming this weekend fot the Vikes.....the Dublin House
    will be rockin' with waves of Purple. Caint wait!!
    
    Vikes- 31
    Faiders-17