Conference 7.286::sports_90

    <<< Note 339.1 by AXIS::ROBICHAUD "Free Case of Sammy's for the trip" >>>
          -< Bob Stanley - The Most Hated Man in Boston?  Why?  8^) >-

    

    Dr Double-ott, you're really starting to grasp for straws with this
    racism crap.
    
    Until you just mentioned the fact that Stanley is black, I too,
    didn't know.  Nor did I care.
    
    Mark.

   
   <<< Note 339.0 by FRSBEE::BROOKS "A radical thinker on a musical level" >>>
           -< Jerome Stanley - The Most Hated Man in Boston ? Why ? >-
    
   > And I have to wonder, is it the fact that Stanley is black, aggressive,
   > and sure of himself the reason why the Boston media has spewed so much
   > bile ?
    
    NO. Doc, until you mentioned it in this note, I had no idea 
    that Stanley was black.
  
    I could care less.

    The media is ripping Stanley apart because of the Brian Shaw 
    circus. Shaw signs a contract, then the two of them go to court
    to try and get the  thing invalidated? Can you imagine if Clemens
    had tried this? Mike Childs would be bashing bigtime. Was Stanley
    his agent when he signed that contract? I got the impression he wasn't.
    It doesn't really matter. It was sleaze. He signed the contract and he
    should abide by it. Then, coincidentally(!), Stanley (NOT LEWIS) comes
    out in  the papers and states that Reggis is done in Boston, right after 
    he loses the Shaw case. 

    Agreesive? maybe
    Sure of himself? Comes across as more of a whiner than 
    anything.

    Being black has nothing to do with it.

    daryll

    Yo wait a minute !
    
    *I* didn't know Stanley was black till today. Nor did I care much. What
    gets on my nerves is that I have never seen so much fur fly over an
    agent. 
    
    Ever.
    
    re Shaw,
    
    Shaw signed the contract without an agent.
    
    Correct me if I wrong on the timeline :
    
    1. Shaw comes back from Itlay to talk contract. He'll play one more
    year there (maybe), then return to Boston.
    
    2. Shaw fires his agent.
    
    3. Shaw signs new contract with Celts. Without an agent.
    
    4. Shaw wants to reconsider - too late ! He's already signed.
    
    5. Stanley is hired to salvage a bad situation.
    
    6. Shaw and Stanley take C's to court.
    
    Don't blam (tm) Stanley for his role - he's sticking his finger in the
    dike, for all intents and purposes.
    
    Oh yeah, something else - Stanley's mug was plastered all over the
    Boston papers. I've never seen the agent get so much photo space before
    - have you ?
    
    And Mark, before telling that I'm "reaching" read a few of the papers
    over the last few days first.
    
    Doc

    Now, now, let's not begin judging DrM before we know if he's black,
    white, pink, purple, green, or even Carolina Blue.  It just wouldn't be
    keeping with the tone of this topic.
    
    Facetiously yours,
    
    	--dan'l

    The Kendricks brothers and Howard Slusher are but 3 agents who've
    incurred similar wrath as Stanley.
    
    Mark.

Doc,

I don't read the Boston papers and frankly haven't been following 
this any further than what I've heard on the radio and tube. 

I got the impression that Stanley was hired by Shaw right after 
he signed the Celtic contract, but before he decided to 
reconsider. Like I said, I haven't been following this closely, 
but, either way, it doesn't really matter.

daryll

    I have read the papers and I have listened to the talk show, and
    you're right about the media slant.
    
    I'm just tired of being accused (not me personally, but as a fan
    of the local teams) as being racist for speaking out against a public
    figure like an athlete or an agent, even though I've made NO reference
    to that figure's color.
    
    Mark.    

i agree with the circus comment, reaching for the racial angle is a bunch 
of bull.  if that was the cause why would they stop at stanley and not continue
the prejudice against reggie or shaw?

reggie was being vastly underpaid, that's agreed.  to think that stanley had to
make a circus out of it, including tarnishing reggie's reputation with the
fans, is belittling to the sport.


i know this will draw accusations of prejudice, but it shouldn't, but i'm 
waiting for don king to start representing bb players!


stanley's handling of shaw and reggie is embarrasing.  these guys shouldn't 
have to make threats to get their worth.  jerome, like all agents, is playing
his clients for all they're worth.  and the people who are suffering are the
players and the fans.

    re .8
    
    I'm a mixed shade of Oiler and Rice Blue, Texas Southern Maroon, Philly
    and Houston Cougar Red, and Laker Purple ....
    
    Of course, the fall always makes me turn a certain shade of (Columbia)
    blue .... :-)

    re .11
    
    Whoa there !!!!!!!
    
    I thought I had explicity said in the basenote that I am EXCLUDING the
    Boston fans from this affair.
    
    My comments were towards the Boston MEDIA.
    
    Geez ..... it's a good thing I'm not saying this around you during
    hunting season ..... :-)

From the basenote :
    

>>    Notice I didn't mention the fans - most people are juding Brian Shaw on
>>    his own, and most people haven't sounded anything like Will McDonough
>>    and half of the Boston media.
  
>>    And I have to wonder, is it the fact that Stanley is black, aggressive,
>>    and sure of himself the reason why the Boston media has spewed so much
>>    bile ?
    
>>    Let's hear it for the liberal Boston media. :-(
    
    I did not include the Boston fans in this cesspool that the media is
    trying to create. I thought I had made that clear. People are jumping
    Brian Shaw for being stupid (a judgement call) for signing the
    contract, going to court - and that's okay. 
    
    What is setting me off is the hatchet job that the media is doing on
    Stanley.
    
    I thought that paragraph was clear - if not, then I apologize.
    
    But I still charge the media with racial bias, until I can be convinced
    otherwise (and yes I'm keeping an open mind).
    
    Doc
    
    Dr Midnight

    re .12
    
    Tarnishing Reggie's rep ? Come on ... Lewis was a nice guy before, is
    still one as far as I know. If his rep is tarnished by this, then the
    depth of people's feelings didn't extend very far now did it ?
    
    You'd think Reggie slept with Margo to listen to the media here ....

    I thought Boston's 2 Most Hated Men were brothers (Bob & Jerome) until
    Doc let the cat out of the bag ;-)

    In the Reggie Lewis case, I think it's because Reggie sort of has grown
    up, hoops-wise, in Boston, first as a Northeastern Huskie and then as a
    Boston Celtic.  The media got to know him as an 18 year-old freshman,
    he's always seemed very cooperative and friendly; and then when he was
    alleged to have made the statement that he wouldn't be a Celtic next
    year, it became very easy for everyone to blame Stanley for
    brainwashing Reggie.  I'm not saying he did, heck, it could be that
    Reggie has suddenly "grown up" and changed before everyone's eyes, but
    the sudden change in Reggie was too much to deal with and Jerome
    Stanley became a convenient target.  Alan Segal, who works for WBZ
    radio sports and is an avowed college basketball fanatic, supposedly
    said that the Reggie at the press conference Tuesday was not the Reggie
    he'd gotten to know over the past 4 years.  Since it was so radical a
    change and since it's hard to believe Reggie did this on his own, lets
    blame Jerome.
    
    Stanley is also a convenient target because of what is perceived to
    have happened with Brian Shaw.  He re-signed, he seemed happy and then
    he made a sudden 180-degree turn and told the Celtics to take a hike. 
    Again, I think Stanley is being blamed for it.  I don't know whether
    it's fair or unfair but that's how I see it.
    
    John         

    Jerome Stanley is just the flavor of the month.
    
         Bill Laimbeer, Dale Hunter and a host of others get it with both 
    barrels when they come to town.  So does Ralph Sampson and so did Jabaar.
    
         Bob Stanley was oft vilified.  Luis Tiante was lionized.  You
    could argue that Russell and Rice didn't get the respect they deserved
    but then there are no shortage of Yaz detractors either.  
    
         Boston's a funny place.   

     I know everyone out there is saying to himself "Well gee whiz what
    does Tommy Brydie think about all this ?". I say congradulations
    Reggie. If I'm Reggie I've got to be ecstatic. Will McDonough says
    that the Celts were willing to give Reggie the money before he pulled
    what amounted to a hold up. Well if I'm dealing with Jan Volk I
    assume nothing in fact I assume the worst. As far as the racism
    goes I don't think there's any involved. I think that McDonough and
    alot of people thought of Reggie as this shy, quiet, get the job
    done kid who was corrupted by Stanley. Reggie's no fool and he's
    got 16.5 mil that says so. As far as the fans go their memory is
    even more short term than the media.
    
    

the tarnished image is one which used to say we (team) and now cries ME!

I think if reggie's case was handled more professionally, i.e. no statements
this is my last year blah blah blah, he'd have gotten the 3mill/year and would
still be thought of as a team player.

you're accusing the media of being racist with absolutely NO facts.  The fact 
that Stanley is black and that he's being ragged on and that you don't agree, in
my opinion doesn't warrant you calling them racist.  Actually it's absurd!
If they were racist they'd have a lot more targets than simply Jerome, like
80+% of the players in the NBA.  If anything, your accusation that a
predominantly white media is prejudiced of Stanley is racist -- you're
prejuding them as much as if not more than what you're accusing them of doing.
I think a lot of people are getting tired of the racist argument!


The fact of the matter
is that reggie, like all atheletes is an entertainer.  As such, we have a right
to expect him to be a little obsequious to us -- even if it is acting.  we're
paying his salary and when he mocks us, we have a right to disapprove.
If he hates boston that's something he should keep to himself; 
to do otherwise is unprofessional.



I think when people here
the word racist they get defensive because the words ring of conspiracy

    Doc,
    
    As a lifelong Massachusettes resident (through no fault of my own, I
    might add :-), I just want to say that, sure, there are yahoos here
    that prejudge based on a person's skin color - just as there are
    yahoos that prejudge based on a person's sex, religion, hair color, or
    personal node (:-) - just as there are yahoos in virtually every major
    city in the country (hell, forget city, how 'bout rural Georgia?) that
    haven't got enough brains to figure out that people are INDIVIDUALS!
    
    But has it ever occurred to you that by continually bringing the
    subject up, and, in fact, viewing the world as if EVERYONE in it was
    prejudiced, is itself a form of (reverse) prejudice?   And, just maybe,
    that by constantly bringing it to everyone's mind, you are prolonging
    the prejudice?  (And what if _I_, a white mail, had a p-name as
    obviously racially motivated as "Dr. Midnight"?  You'd be all over my
    'lily-white-ass'!
    
    Before you knew that Stanley was black, I didn't see you in here
    complaining about the media treatment.  I said that Stanley was a moron
    before I knew he was black, and if Lewis hadn't signed, I'd STILL be
    saying it - because I know that _I_ didn't come to that conclusion
    because of racial considerations, but by his actions. (Now that Reggie
    is signed, I'll lay off - but NOT because I found out he's black, for
    crissake!)
    
    Finally, anyone with half a brain around here knows that you can't
    believe a tenth of the spew that the Glob spreads around...  I really
    think that people in this day and age are intelligent enough to read
    the FACKS (the few that exist in the Glob), and come to their own
    conclusions - without your help, and without blindly accepting the
    written word.
    
    Non-racially yours,
    
    ML
    

�     I know everyone out there is saying to himself "Well gee whiz what
�    does Tommy Brydie think about all this ?". I say congradulations


You know, on my way home last night after reading the first replies
to this interesting yet controversial note (perhaps we should move
the discussion Live onto Geraldo), anyway, thinking about this note
on my way home I was saying to myself "Well, gee whiz, what does
Tommy Brydie think about all this?"

And the longer the day wore on the more I cogitated on this all 
crucial piece to the puzzle.

Thanks, Tommy, I can sleep better at night now.  Have you called
Letterman to tell him what you think?

[served with *MANY* 8^)]
'Saw

 Right on DOC!!!! Tell it like it is. As I see it Stanley did indeed get
 lambasted by the press and anyone who doesn't think his color had something
 to with it is blind. Who runs the majority of newspapers in this area?
 White Ultra conservatives, staunch republican I'd say. I certainly know 
 that to be the case with my worcester rag.

 Wether Doc is into reverse discrimination I can't say but the fact of the
 matter is that there is still alot of racial prejudices in this area and
 Doc has every right to speakout against. Who knows he might just reach a
 few people in here and changes their ideas and further break down the walls.

 Shaw was dumb stupid and hustled to the max by the Celtics. Here's a kid
 who supposed to be one of the cornerstones of their rebuilding process
 and they sign him to a little over a million dollars a year for 5 years.
 Big deal! For christsakes kids are coming out of college getting 2 million
 a year. All Stanley was trying to do was right and obvious wrong and the
 guy got treated like a criminal. Sure the fault lies with Shaw but the
 Celtics are so dirty in this situation it sickens me and we all know
 how I feel about my team.

 mike

    re Last 1/2 ton of notes ....
    
    Before I go on vacation, I'll just issue a general reply :
    
    1. I've talked to several people off-line, and combined with comments
    by John and others, I'll say that it is very possible that the media
    sees Stanley as a "corrupter of the innocent" (the thought makes me
    smile - from what I've heard, both Shaw and Lewis are two mature young
    men, and while perhaps a little naive, are no babes in the woods).
    If so, then I am off base, and I'll say so.
    
    It's certainly a factor that I underestimated.

    2. Peter makes the point that I have "no proof" that the media is
    racist. As MrT would say - Haa ! The proof is in the writing. I'm a (to
    put it nicely) voracious reader. I read between the lines very well,
    and the media here (as Carr implicitly noted) makes the alleys big
    enough to drive through. 
    
    Things like Will McD snidely implying that Stanley may have a problem
    getting his money out of Lewis - that's offensive to Lewis and Stanley.
    It's uncalled for, and petty and small-minded.
    
    I also admit that I'm biased against the Boston media - they are a
    often small-minded, petty, and bigoted bunch - although there are some
    sterling exceptions. It may color (no pun intended :-) the way I read
    my papers.
    
    Sure, people can make up their own minds - but many DO read the paper,
    and it DOES shape the opinions of many. Moreover, I used to write
    myself, and I have a healthy regard for the Bill Of Rights, and that
    little part about Freedom of The Press. The crap I read in these papers
    is as much a rape of the right as Pravda.

    3. Dave Carr, if you called yourself Dr. Midnight, I'd ask you what
    size condom you wore, and ask for your secret .... :-)
    
    Racially motivated ? Give me a break. Was the comic book character
    Captain Midnight racially motivated ? (BTW, he was white.)

    On a more serious note, you raise a multi-leveled issue beyond, the
    question "Does The Doc Yell 'Racist" Too Much ?"
    
    I probably don't note it enough.
    
    I've often said nothing, bend over backwards, ect to give an issue the
    benefit of the doubt. And having felt racist behavior from at least the
    age of 5 onward, in school, work, play, sports, ect, I think I'm a
    pretty bitter-free person. If I was half of what you implied Dave, I
    wonder if a John Hendry or a Steve Nazzaro could work/interact with me
    for any length of time. I don't mean to put anyone on the spot, but
    I've worked and socialized with them, and people like Glen Donnelly,
    Hawk, the Saw, and others. I'm fairly sure I don't blast them with
    anti-white rhetoric, or make the lives uncomfortable in word or action.
    If anything, I believe it's quite the opposite.
    
    Moreover Dave, I have *never* accused a noter in SPORTS of being racist
    or indulging in racist behavior. I attack institutions, not people.
    
    SOAPBOX is another story .... :-)
    
    Another thing, maybe it looks like I point out race when I see it (and
    when you *don't*), but that's a perception that I can't help you with.

    I was one of the more vocal *opponents* of John Thompson and John
    Chaney on Prop 42 - or do you remember ? I can whip out a few more
    examples where I could have fit your ready-made profile of me, but
    didn't. Think about that next time.

    Most importantly, I raise issues, because *I* can't ignore them - I
    can't afford to. And Sports is a microcosm of our world - even more so
    than before because of the intrusuion of the dollar (or the
    Billion-dollar to be more accurate). Our illusions are being stripped
    away AL little at a time. 
    
    And you know something Dave ? It's a pity that this basketball issue
    became a race issue. Basketball probably features more cultural
    integration than any other sport - hell more than any school I've been
    to (and I've been to a lot ! :-).
    
    Example : Larry Bird plays a very, uh ... "white" style. Micheal
    Jordan plays a the ultimate version of "black" ball. But nobody doubts
    that they can be appreciated together. We all do it - almost
    unconsciously. There is a real integration of culture - without a loss
    of idenity. It's part of the beauty of the game.
    
    But on the business end, affairs are still in a regressed state. 
    
    And in this world - money talks.
    
    Dave, you wondered why I didn't say anything sooner ? Partly I wanted
    to wait until I got the facts. I was confused as hell as to why the
    media is jumping down this guy's throat so damned hard. It never
    occurred to me that he could be black. 
    
    A black agent ? Gee, that's a rare sight - so rare I couldn't think in
    those terms. *That* ought to tell you something about minorties being
    in areas of financial clout.
    
    Anyhow, it wasn't just the attack of Stanley as an agent, but this
    personal attack on the man as well, not to mention the
    out-of-left-field cheap shots tossed in for good measure. And the use
    of words like "arrogant" (God, I've heard *that* one before),
    "churlish", "sullen", etc. 
    
    To you, it's just another adj. To me, it's often been a code-word for
    something worse.

    Lastly, I speak out, even when I might be wrong, because nothing is
    ever accomplished by saying nothing. NOTHING. If in fact, I'm right,
    and I say nothing, then I'm a accessory. Aiding and abetting if you
    will. 

    The very fact that you took the time to reply (as well as John, Peter,
    Steve, and others) is heartening - even if you are dead wrong on some
    of your contentions. It meant that you considered and thought about
    what I said. And unless people think, the status quo can't be
    challanged. 
    
    And I've had enough of Shoal Creeks in life as well as sport - haven't
    you ?

    And thanks for thinking a little.

    (And to anybody else who hung in to read this whole note ! :-)
    
    Dr Midnight - take it how you will .....

    
      Bob Lobel reported last night on the 11 o'clock news that sometime
    in the next few days, it will be announced that Brian Shaw WILL PLAY
    for the Celtics this year. The signing of Lewis probably had an
    important part in this decision.
    
      Jim 

RE: .20

Is this the same Tom Brydie I worked with a few summers back in a stockroom in 
LMO2 (and past the time taping Ed Sullivan's pens to his desk)??

-Scott


PS Sorry guys, back to the topic....

    After taking some time to get my thoughts in order, I want to chime in.
    
    Boston generally, and the Boston sports media in particular, are more
    racist than most of us would like to believe or admit.  Remember that
    some of the worst school integration riots occurred here - not in the
    South.  We're *still* talking about the necessity for forced
    integration of public housing, while every other city that I know about
    has simply done it and it's no longer an issue.  Certainly when you
    look at the complexion of our professional teams, it is usually lighter
    than their opponents.  This doesn't mean that other teams and other
    areas don't have racial problems of their own.  They do.  But possibly
    we need to remove the beam from our eye before dealing with the mote in
    other's.
    
    Doc really does us a favor by pointing the prejudice out from time to 
    time.  Progress is made one individual at a time, and is a painful and 
    slow process.  Consider in your own heart if it's possible that some
    proportion of the media outcry about Bob Stanley might be due to his
    race.  Certainly there has been enough in his handling of Shaw to cause
    the rancor all on its own.  But I for one believe that there is also a
    percentage that dislikes the color of his skin.  And to that degree I
    wish the press would just shut up and leave it alone.  In the end, the
    value of both deals will be played out on the court.
    
    A&W 

re; 25

The proof is in the writing?  I haven't seen it.  Maybe I ought to read 
between the lines ;-)   Voracious reader -- all that means is that you read 
alot...

If you're going to make an accusation of racism, you should be able to back it 
up with some facts, other than that you didn't like the outcome of a particular
scenario...  If you're just going to cry racism everytime a black and a white
interact, and the black doesn't get the best judgement (in your opinion), you'll
sound a lot like the person crying wolf too much.

I agree that racism is a serious issue -- as such it should be treated more
seriously by you.  I don't mean to suggest that it's not an important
issue for you; I know that it is.  But before accusing a writer(who by the 
way I don't like in the least) of being racist you'll need more facts than 
he ragged on a black agent. How about investigating how he has written about 
white agents who have pulled the same shenanigans, or how about how he 
has written about black players compared to how he writtens about whites?

I forget who said it, but there's that old reply to the question do you hate
blacks (or whites, or asian): No, I hate everybody.  Maybe Will McD is such a 
person -- rags on everybody.

Being on guard isn't a crime, but libel is...

If these racist tendencies can be shown, maybe we ought to write a letter to
the globe's editors pointing this fact out.

    
    
    Come on though guys, "$3.3 million" ???  Isn't that a little 
    steep??????
    
    	What kind of money are the rest of the players going to 
    want ??
    
    	What about the "wonderful" salary cap??

    Just a note:
    
    I always crack up when folks use the "liberal Boston media'.  It's
    too funny.  The Globe is considered a liberal paper - mostly because
    of the stand it took during the busing crisis.  Yep, the liberal
    Globe took the side of desegragation - something that didnt' set
    right with many Bostonians/Massachussettians.  The Herald is a very
    conservative paper, folks.  SO are many of the other town papers.
    
    Blaming stuff on a 'liberal media' or for that matter a 'conservative
    media' is a cop out.  The media DOES not make the racial tensions
    in the city, it doesn't make the politics.   The people do.   
    
    I haven't read the papers on the Lewis signing, mainly cuz we don't
    get the Boston papers in Seattle.  But I've followed Reggie Lewis
    since he was a spindly frosh on NU, hitting 35 points in his first
    NCAA game, on through his 4 years at NU, his momental battle with
    Len Bias when NU played Maryland, his french fry accident, his ascent
    from a #6 man on his h.s. team to a #1 pick and a budding star in
    the NBA.   If Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Chris Ford, Joe Kleine or
    Micheal Smith held out or had an agent like Stanley, they'd be no
    problem or discussion.
    
    JD

    PLEASE NOTE THIS FOR ALL FUTURE REFERENCE:
    
    Reggie Lewis NEVER said he would not play in Boston after this 
    season.  THAT WHAT THE WRITERS INFERRED from when he said "I'll
    play 150% for the Celtics this year, and after that, I'll do
    what's best for me."  HE NEVER SAID HE WOULDN'T NEGOTIATE WITH THE
    CELTICS.  It was obvious that he didn't know Stanley and Gavett
    would reach an agreement so quickly.  And no, his number for the
    next six seasons are far from out of line.
    
    For the record, this is what he's making:
    
    1990-91	$450,000, plus a $1.5 million signing bonus total $1.95
    		million
    1991-92	$2 million
    1992-93	$2.5 million
    1993-94	$3 million
    1994-95	$3.5 million
    1995-96	$4 million
    
    THis seems to be a fair contract for both sides.  Jerome Stanley
    negotiated it quickly, and got it done.  My one beef against Stanley
    is that he shoots from the lip a bit too quickly, and has to cover some
    of his tracks later, but he has done very well by Reggie and the
    Celtics fans.  How well he does by Brian Shaw remains to be seen.
    I think the Celtics brass originally thought they could take undue
    advantage of Stanley perhaps because of his color, perhaps because 
    of his inexperience.  They have been proven wrong.
    
    As for the pathetic attmepts at journalism by McDonough and Shaunessy
    in the GLobe, and Fitzgerald in the Herald, the less said the better.
    
    NAZZ

    Re: -1, Nazz, are you serious about Lewis' salary figures in -.1???
    If you are, I've got to find my note from last week (I think it was in
    Celts), 'cuz I'm up for "Carnac of the Year" award!
    
    Re: Doc,
    
    Thanks for an intelligent reply to my note (instead of the expected
    bash :-)...  I still stand by my comment that "until you knew he was
    black, you weren't complaining about his treatment through the media",
    and I do think that the media would've treated a WHITE agent that
    pulled these stunts similarly.  After all, you threaten an institution
    (Celtics), and most people that love that institution dislike the
    attacker.
    
    But, I also wholeheartedly support your right (and, as Alison points
    out, perhaps your duty) to speak out against racial injustice, WHERE
    YOU SEE IT.  I just don't happen to agree that it applies IN THIS CASE,
    as I'm not sure the MEDIA knew he was black before he came to Boston!
    However, that is spoken as a WASP, who obviously cannot internalize or 
    truly comprehend the sting of racial prejudice.  I guess that as
    someone that has grown up with many good, black, friends, that I tend
    to see the world through my (UNprejudiced) eyes, and expect that others
    see the world the way I do - colorblind! 
    
    Hope you have a great vacation!
    
    ML 
       

>    
>         Bill Laimbeer, Dale Hunter and a host of others get it with both 
>    barrels when they come to town.  So does Ralph Sampson and so did Jabaar.

	How times have changed, a few years ago Chris Nilan would have been
at the top of that list.  

mc

    
    Why? What did Chris Nilan ever do?
    
    
    
    
    Steve

    Chris will get the biggest ovation when he takes his first shift more
    so then any other B. 
    I still will never forgive him for the butt end to Middleton.
    

>    I still will never forgive him for the butt end to Middleton.

	yea, even Chris has said it is not one he is proud of.
mc
    

    Here we go with this racist crap again.  Have any of you guys who
    think Boston is a racist city ever been down south.  You think Boston
    (Mass) is racist go down to Alabama or Mississippi!!!!  I dont care
    what color the guy is.  I am sick and tired of people crying wolf!!!!
    While I was in the service I was talking to one of my co workers - A
    black female.  A discussion ensued about here being female, pregnant and
    black.  She turned to me and said " Hey Greg I am pregnant, black, and
    female, how and hell do you beat that one."  Her and I laughed so hard
    we where holding are ribs from the pain.  Now why cant people take all
    this crap in stride and go with the flow.  I am from Italian desent. 
    I have heard them all - Ginny, WOP, etc.  Bottom line - Reggie Lewis agent
    is a very good agent.  He put his cards on the table and said hey look
    Reggie is worth this.  In my mind Brian Shaw just dosent want to play
    in Boston, period.
    
    Greg  
    
    Greg
    

    Greg, I'm from Houston, and spent 10 years there.
    
    And there are times when I think that San Diego, CA. is more right-wing
    than both put togther.
    
    nuff said.

 Doc, did ya catch Fitzgerald's columun in the Hearld yesterday? I think
 he must have been taking dictation from Red... ;^)

mike

    RE:-< Cry Wolf!!!!!!! >-

    > Here we go with this racist crap again.  Have any of you guys who
    > think Boston is a racist city ever been down south.  You think Boston
    > (Mass) is racist go down to Alabama or Mississippi!!!!  

    I happen to be from the South and have travelled to Alabama, Mississippi,
    et al. And I happen to believe that Boston is one of the most racist
    cities in which I have been.

    Now in the year or so I have been reading Dr. Midnight's notes, I have
    been in agreement about twice...this base note is one of them. And while
    I may not like the tenor of the basenote the content is on target for
    me. Now I really dislike going down "rat-holes" which is why I normally
    would have let your comments slide. If you believe that Dr M is "crying
    wolf" that's your prerogative. But he happens to be right that Boston
    is racist...I know that personally !

    Is it that you believe that Boston is not racist or you are just tired
    of Blacks saying it is so ?

    Blacks too often take [racist] crap in stride and go with the flow.
    Sometimes it is imperative to speak out !

    As for Jerome Stanley, he is a marketing genius...Just picture this
    you are at DECworld and say to an  existing IBM customer who is about
    to make his/her first buy of a DEC system...when you buy one of our
    systems here is what IBM is going to do: Phase 1 is FUD-Fear, Uncertainty
    and Doubt which they will generate; then they will try to convince
    your manager that you have "lost it", and Phase 3 they will have your
    Executive VP give you a call. But if you stick with the fact that
    our solution solves your business then you will be OK.

    Then lo and behold it happens just the way you describe it--the
    customer is yours as long as you continue to communicate.

    Stanley told Reggie exactly what would happen--and it did !


    Edwin    
    

    re .40
    
    Yeah, Mike I saw that hatchet job. Ole Fitzie was stubmbling all over
    himself to call Stanley a jerk, a con, and about 1,000 other things. 
    
    Funny too how these writers keep harping about how Stanley has "cost
    Reggie Lewis a lot of the 'goodwill' that he bulit up through HS and
    college".
    
    Give me a break. The minute Reggie hits a jumper - it's all forgotten.
    I personally think that this is mostly in the minds of the media, but
    it's been said that if you tell a lie often and loud enough, it becomes
    truth.
    
    Furthermore, I think that Boston press, not Lewis looked bad by the
    press conference. They went all out to denounce Stanley because
    allegedly "Reggie wasn't going to stay in Boston - PERIOD". As Nazz has
    pointed out, that was never said. Instead, Stanley negotiated a fat and
    fair contract in a very quickly. Hell, that alone ought to get Stanley
    a cheer in this age of holdouts. 
    
    But instead, the media got caught with a very large egg on its face,
    and all of the shrill whinings of Fitzgearld and others will not change
    that at all.
    
    DrM

    re .41
    
    Ed, trust me on this - the Celts are slime. End of story. You'd agree
    with me a lot more - and you'd be a happier man if you saw the obvious.
    
    Lakers = Good
    Celtics = Evil
    
    :-)
    
    Doc

    RE: -1 Agreement
    
    No those of you who do not know it the Doc and I have a very open
    and honest relationship.
    
    
    
    
    
    We can't stand each other !
    
    
    Seriouly though, Doc, 2 for 100, you need to bring your average up.
    Now, if you only root for the LA Dodgers, maybe, maybe there is
    hope for you.
    
    Edwin 

    	I don't know why people blame Jerome Stanley for anything because
    basically he's doing what his clients want him to do.  If he gets
    Shaw more money from either the Celtics or another team, fellow
    NBA'ers will be beating a path to his door.  As it is the deal he
    got Reggie will be noticed by other players.
    
    				/Don

    
    Boston more rascist than Alabama!!! I'm dyin! I'm cryin! HA HA HA!!!!
    I think you may have to re-think that one. I don't ever remeber seeing
    any signs up here that say "We reserve the right to serve to who we
    want" Give me a break. Now I am not saying that Boston is a Utopia of
    good will towards men, because certainly there are some big racial
    problems, as you would find in any large metropolis these day's. Like
    L.A., Chicago etc... Rascism was born and bread in the deep south 
    and is still quite prevelant today.
    
    
    
    
    Steve 

    RE:.46 Boston more racist than Alabama
    
    Only those who experience it firsthand know the depth of
    racism in Boston. 
    
    Have you ?
    
    Edwin
    BTW: Birmingham has a Black Mayor when do you think Boston will ever
         have one ?
    

    Re: South
    
    I think racism is more restricted to the southeast than the southwest.
    Phoenix and LA are real melting pots and I haven't seen too many racial
    problems despite the efforts of gangs to resurrect them.
    
    Re: large cities
    
    I don't believe the big cities have all the problems.  LA is #2 and
    Phoenix is #7 population wise.  Boston is somewhere around 15th and we
    have a long slide backwards to reach their level.
    
    Mike

    � Rascism was born and bread in the deep south and is still quite
    � prevelant today.
    
    Racism was born when apes stood up and walked.
    
    Bob Hunt

    I've never been to the "deep" south unless you include Georgia.  But if
    the racism there is worse than what I've seen in Pittsburgh or heard
    about Boston from people who have moved away...
    
    ...there's just nothing to say other than it's disheartening.
    
    Sniff.
    
    	--dan'l

>          -< Is a little racism better than a lot? No, it's all bad. >-

and we'll never completely be rid of discrimination, whether it be race, sex, 
age, weight, or whatever.  

I think that many people believe New England/Boston to be far more "liberal"
minded than our neighbors to the south.  Whether that's true or not, I can't
say.  The northeast keeps it's hatred, for the most part, quiet (subtle).  
The south is more vocal (harsh).  It's there, either way.

JMO.

    Re: -1
    
    Southerners are friendlier than the Northeasterners ;-)  New England
    has had the stereotype of being cold to outsiders for awhile.  
    
    Mike

    That may be but we weren't talking about "friendlier," you jerk! (-:
    

    Re: -1
    
    You don't bother me, I'm also from the "Cold Curtain" ;-).  FWIW, it
    seems DECcies traveling to New England are better received than those
    visiting other parts of the country.
    
    Mike

    re Sapp
    
    Ed, my favorite NL teams are San Diego and Houston. 
    
    Which should give an idea of how I feel about the Dogderetts ....
    
    If you guys would fire Lasorda - I might feel better about them.
    
    re Racism,
    
    Bob and others are right on one thing - racism is not new, nor is it a
    Southern invention.
    
    The South is in a perverse way, more honest about it's racism. In the
    NOrth, some institutuions appear liberal, and then others are just as
    virulent in its bias as any Southern state. 
    
    Like I've said, I've lived all over the country, and each area has
    enough racism so that there is no way that it can look down on another
    region. If you do, you'll be in for a big shock.
    
    As Los Angelinos about Watts ... or Detroiters (???) about 1968 ...
    
    Sulfuric acid is the same, whether it's in a steel drum, or a soda
    bottle .... you had better treat it with care in both cases ....

    
    Bob, I was talking about this country. And yes I have seen rascism
    first hand in Boston as well in the South, and I still can't understand
    why Boston is more rascist. Segregation is one thing, lynch
    mobs and crosses burning are quite a different story. Personally I
    despise anyone with that mentality. I also feel that it is bred into 
    you, thank God my parents were not hateful. I couldn't begin to
    understand it's plight though, my only knowledge of it exist through 
    watching it, and listening to friends tell about there struggles.
    Once I attened a black friends wedding in Clearwater, Fla. I had a 
    great time and was treated with the utmost respect by everyone I met.
    I got a few stares but mostly smiles. I did experience a taste of what
    it might feel like for a black man to be the sole representitive of his race
    surrounded by white men. A bunch of us went out to a night club in 
    Tampa, and I was the only white man in the bar. Although I felt very
    out of place, and I'm sure I was, nothing happened. I was a little
    scared and even paranoid at times even though I was surrounded by 
    friends. I got quite a few stares, but I had no problems. It gave me
    a new insight, and it's something I'll never forget.
    
    
    
    Steve

    I have a similar story to yours, Digger.  This was back around 1976 or
    so.  While working in Nashua there were a couple of black guys that worked 
    there who lived in Roxbury.  Their car broke down and seeing as I lived in 
    Maynard I told them I'd give them a lift.  When I went to drop them off, 
    they said, "come on, let us buy you a beer".  I was a bit apprehensive
    at first, but we went to the local bar, and sure enough I was the only 
    white dude in the place.  Quite a different perspective to say the least.
    
    					Steve 

    RE: Last Two
    
    Now suppose you were the only white dude in your neighborhood, your
    town, in your group at DEC. 
    
    There is a possibility today that one or two of your neighbors may
    not speak to you. They may be doing you a favor. But what if you
    were the only white ? Wouldn't it gnaw at you to know that maybe,
    just maybe it was because you were white ?
    
    And what about DEC ? You go into a meeting and have major philosophical
    differences. Wouldn't there be an uncertainty in your mind if
    you were the only white that maybe, just maybe it was due to
    being white ?
    
    Take the above day in day out and maybe just maybe you have an
    appreciation of what many Blacks go through in this area.
    
    Edwin

    Edwin, I don't have to be told what I've experienced.
    
    					Steve

    
    That goes double for me Edwin. I already stated that I have no 
    idea what "it" would feel like, just that I got a small taste
    ot "it".
    
    
    
    Steve

    Sounds as if we are in violent agreement !
    
    Edwin

    
    I should have punned your node name......
    
    
    
    XSCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSE MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
    
    
    Steve 8^)