Conference 7.286::sports_90

    BBall RESULTS:
    
    Nebraska 83
    Creighton 86
    
    Kansas State 75
    Tulsa 69
    
    
    
    TODAYS GAMES:
    
    Bradley at Missouri
    Minnesota at Kansas State
    N. Iowa at Iowa State
    Oklahoma State at Tulsa
    Pepperdine at Kansas
    
    Cowboy
    
    

    and MIZZOU just keeps on winning...amd winning...and winning....

    BBALL RESULTS:
    
    Kansas 98
    Pepperdine 73
    
    Kansas State 68
    Minnesota 69
    
    Missouri 86
    Bradley 77
    
    Oklahoma State 80 (OT)
    Tulsa 95
    
    Iowa State 92
    Iowa 80
    
    
    NEXT:
    
    Texas Southern at Oklahoma State
    
    Missouri vs. Illinois at St. Louis Arena
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    Fiesta Bowl
    
       Hard one to pick. I dont know what the line is or if the line is out
       yet. Nebraska has not recieved respect this year because of schedule.
       Possibly that is as it should be. However, Nebraska is a legit top 5
       team in my opinion. I'm sure the Colorado Clippers would agree and I
       know from quotes that the Oklahoma sooners agree.
    
       Fla State crushed Miami. This makes it hard to pick Nebraska.
       However picking according to how teams beat other teams is many
       times not a good barometer.
    
       Based on Nebraska's more diversified offense this year, (Gdowski
       has given them a passing game) I'll pick Nebraska by a small margin.
       This is mostly from the heart though as I know little about FSU
       except that they beat Miami and Bowden is a truely great coach.
    
    Nebraska     28
    FSU          24
    
    Orange Bowl
    
       Colorado has earned respect. And rightfully so. They have had a
       tough schedule and are undefeated with a huge 'special teams' win
       over Nebraska.
    
       However, in my opinion Colorado had been playing 'a bit' over their
       heads this year because of their using the death of Sal for emotion.
       They had big problems moving the ball against Nebraska outside of
       one big play and would not be in the Orange bowl if not for the 2
       punt returns and a few refs who are blind to clips.
    
       However, they did what it took to win and thats been the name of the
       game for CU. Notre Dame will be at least at tough as Nebraska and
       this game will not be at Boulder. Notre Dame may have gotten soundly
       beaten by Miami but they have immense pride and a very strong fan
       following. They will bounce back for this game. There will be no ND
       letup. Holtz will find something to get his team up with. I truely
       do believe that the Buffs are up against it here. If the Buffs can
       use Sal once more they may pull off a win and a national
       championship but I wouldent count on it.
    
    Colorado 17
    ND       24
    
    
    Now I've done it. I have virtually guarantee'd FSU and CU wins.
    
    						Nebraska Marty 

    The Line on the Fiesta is Fla St. 3.5 
    
    On the Orange ND 1.5 over CU. 
    
    
    Jeff
    
    
    

    The Denver Post has the following line:
    
    Florida State 4 over Nebraska
    
    Notre Dame 1^ over Colorado
    
    
    I'll have to go with FSU over Nebraska because of NU's loosy Big-game
    record and the fact that FSU usually seems to be underrated and over-
    looked.  Colorado looks too much like the better Sooner teams--the
    confidence to win against anyone.  It doesn't matter if they're against
    a better team or not--CU will still win the game.  ND is mortal--they
    can be beaten and have been already.
    
    Florida State 31
    Nebraska 17
    
    Colorado 24
    Notre Dame 21
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    Marty,
    
    	I don't think Sal's death is the only thing that motivated
    	CU.  You keep mentioning it like that is the only reason
    	they won all their games this year.  I believe they wanted
    	to win all those games more for themselves than for him.
    	I'm not saying his death wasn't a factor.  It's just gets 
    	old hearing people say that they are using his death to
    	win their games.  They're not!  They're winning those games
    	with the right mental attitude and their physical abilities.
    	There's no divine spirit looking over them!  They went out
    	on the field 11 times this year.  They won all 11 games by
    	playing better than the other team and nothing else.......
    
    	I contend that they could have gone undefeated without him
    	dying.  But, that is pure speculation........
    
    Claybone

    BBall RESULTS:
    
    Oklahoma State 79
    Texas Southern 77
    
    
    
    TODAY:
    
    Missouri vs. Illinois at St. Louis Arena
    
    
    
    FRIDAY:
    
    Arizona State at Kansas
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    re: .7
    
    Claybone, I dont mean to make it sound like CU's talent has had nothing
    to do with success this year. It has to a great extent. That cant be
    deny'd.
    
    All I'm saying is that emotion is a huge part of football. It's an
    emotional game. The Sal thing has given them an added extra emotional
    edge and they are milking it for all it worth. I'm also not saying that
    the feelings the CU players and staff have for Sal are made up. Sal was
    of questionable moral character (Arested for something not too long ago
    and got the coaches daughter pregnent illigitimatily) but he was the
    type of person that everybody liked. The CU players loved him very
    much.
    
    weather or not CU would have been undefeated without the passing of
    Sal will, of course, never be known. I personaly believe that the
    "magic" atmosphere that this has created has propelled CU beyond the
    physical capabilities of the team. It has transformed a good and
    talented team into a team on a mission. Extra mental toughness. And
    mental toughness is the thing which seperates great teams from 
    championship teams. It remains to be seen if CU can keep up this edge
    playing in the always tough Orange bowl against a recent powerhouse.
    I personal believe that if the Nebraska game were played at nebraska
    that the Huskers would have won. Now it's ND in the orange bowl. I'm
    sorry but I just dont think CU will win this game. It would be great
    for the Big-8 if they did.
    
    One theory that has been thrown out about Nebraska is that they lack
    that mental edge due to Coach Osborne's unemotional stature. This may
    have truth to it. When Bob Devany (A legand in Nebraska) was coach
    NU won back to back national championships. Devany was a firey
    emotional, kick butt kind of coach. His offensive coordinator was
    Tom Osborne. Osborne called ALL the offensive shots while Devany
    fired up the team. Thus - back to back in '70 and '71. Glorious !!!
    
    I think NU is also up against it in the Fiesta. Bowden is a great
    coach and he dosent believe all this krap about Nebraska not really
    being that good this year because of the schedule. He knows about
    Nebraska. He has, I think, 2 wins over NU in the 80's but these were
    close, hair of your chinny chin chin wins. He's also been litterly
    blown out by the Huskers 2 or 3 times in the 80's. He wont be taking
    the Huskers lightly. I do think NU will pull it out. I have a lot of
    confidence in Gdowski.
    
    						Nebraska Marty

    The CU players probably have handled Sal's death the way *They*
    wanted to.  Obviously, it wasn't handled the way the Husker press
    thought it should be and I can't see that what the Huskers think
    about it really matters.  Since NU lost to CU most of the griping
    is about the Sal thing and that a overachieving CU won because
    of *phoney* emotions.  Personally, I can't see any truth to the
    NU talk.  Is this CU team really overrated?  What did they do
    last year in Nebraska?  CU dropped the ball on the way to a TD
    to tie the game.  It looks to me that CU *CAN* compete with the
    *mighty bugeaters* and have shown it.
    
    CU *can't* compete with NU when it comes to excuses and complaints.
    
    Cowboy
    

    re: -1
    
    Cowboy,
    
    Yes, CU dropped the ball while in the open running toward a TD last
    year. But NU also fumbled on CU's 1 yard line while going in for a TD.
    It's a wash. I was at the game.
    
    Your right, NU fans are #1 for whining and excuses. But that's all out
    of frustration because we are sssooooooooo close every year and yes,
    I'll admit it, choke every year. But at least the Huskers are "there"
    every year and have a shot at it. One of these years its got go come
    together. Law of averages.
    
    The CU fans are no better for their excessive hatred toward NU as the
    result of being blown away for so many years. It's only natural on
    both sides.
    
    And your wrong on your emphisis about what the NU fans are miffed
    about regarding the NU/CU game. The Sal thing is a minor point with
    Husker fans. The thing that REALLY REALLY pi$$ed NU fans, players, and
    coaches off was the 2 missed obvious clipps on each of the 2 punt
    returns. The following week when NU played Kansas at NU, half of the
    reff crew were the same reffs that did the CU game. The NU fans boo's
    the reffs without mercy the whole game. When the Huskers came out of
    the locker room to start the game they got a tremendous ovation.
    
    My only point in bringing up the Sal thing was to state that I believe
    that has been the thing which, added to CU's talent, has placed them
    over the top (so far) to where they are now. This has been that
    "intangable" factor that NU has not been able to find. It as been the
    difference maker for an already compettitve team. I fail to see what
    is insulting about that. ??? !!!
    
    						Nebraska Marty
    

    Milking Sal's death?  That's a pretty harsh statement don't
    you think?  You've been reading too many Nebraska newspapers.
    Face it, Big Red fans could't handle defeat so they resort to
    belittling the CU players by saying they USED his death as 
    some sort of mental springboard.  That's low..............
    
    Sal had his share of scrapes with the law.  I think the majority
    of young men do!  He also got a girl pregnant.  You could accuse
    of him of not using good judgement regarding birth control.  The
    girl could be accused of this as well.  But, does this equate to
    his moral character being questionable?  I think not.  He was no
    saint, but, neither are 99.99999999999% of the people in this
    world.
    
    You're right about footbal being an emotional game.  You're wrong
    about CU "milking Sal's death".
    
    Claybone

    Every winning team has to have a winning attitude.  You (and the
    Nebraska press) make it sound like CU was looking for a good
    way to get the team's attitude right for winning and decided
    that they would use Sal's death:
    
     >> The Sal thing has given them an added extra emotional
     >> edge and they are milking it for all it worth.
    
    I can't argue that:
    
     >> The Sal thing has given them an added extra emotional
     >> edge
    
    but:
    
     >>      and they are milking it for all it worth. 
     
    is a statement that both cold-blooded obviously sour grapes.
    
    If NU is so tired of choking in the big games and is always
    so close to the national championship then why don't they
    do something about it?  Get rid of Osborn if he can't fire
    up the team.  NU has one of the best football programs around
    don't they?  Don't they have a red-shirt program that has as
    many coaches, as much money spent, etc, as many *varsity*
    programs have?  Why don't NU fans quit their crying and do
    something that will eliminate the problems?  Just because NU
    chokes every years doesn't mean that they should be able to
    bitch and moan every year.
    
    Cowboy
    

    	
    I'm not exactly a CU fan but have stuck up for them this year. They
    have a heck of a team but don't get the credit they deserve. Like I
    said before, the NU game was the worse CU played all year.
    Unfortunatly, that is the game the nation saw. I agree that the
    milking his death for all it's worth comment was very crude and down
    right ridiculous. Yes, a big deal has been made of it. But believe it
    or not when they are on the field they have other things on their minds
    than a friend and team-mate that passed away. His death certainly was
    not unexpected, after he was diagnosed as having inoperable cancer. Yes
    he did get in trouble a couple of times. How many of you in here never
    got into any kind of trouble when you were about 20 years old? (Or just
    didn't get caught?) Yes, he got the coaches daughter pregnant. Big
    freakin' deal! How many girls get pregnant in this country every single
    day without, heaven forbid, being married? Of course it wasn't any of
    her fault. I bet you don't know that several people took blood tests to
    determine who the father was. Sal Aunese was no saint but some of you
    Nebraska people ripping him up because CU beat NU is sickening.
    
                                                    HOOT
    

    
    Don't take him seriously, guys.  Marty has a well-documented problem
    handing out credit without rescinding it in the very next paragraph 
    with some derogatory term like "clippers", "milkers", or "cheaters"
    (not necessarily limited to Colorado, either, as I have learned).  
    It's almost as if he means well when he starts his notes but then 
    the years of bitterness well up inside him and overtake him.
    
    I honestly believe that the Aunese tragedy had little more to do with
    Colorado's success than the fact that it placed a more talented QB in
    charge of the offense.  It may have provided inspiration to the lives
    of individual team members in the way they approach their individual
    lives, but once they hit the field it's football, not a prayer service.
    How many times have we heard you yourself, Marty, say that "Aunese
    may have carried the overachieving Colorado this far, but once they run
    up against (insert one: Oklahoma/Nebraska/Notre Dame) they'll be in
    over their heads."  And then it never happens.  Marty, you're the only 
    person in here stirring up the mud with the Aunese business, which is
    the very same reason for which you're criticizing both Colorado and the 
    media.  If and when Colorado finally loses (maybe sometime next year, 
    even) are we going to have to hear you tell us "I told you so, the 
    Aunese magic has finally worn off"?
    
    A challenge to Marty: if Colorado knocks off Notre Dame for the
    National Championship, are you willing to cease and desist with the
    clippers/milkers/questional-moral-character crap and give the Buffs 
    the credit they deserve for their performance *as the best* in the
    country this year?
    
    glenn
     

    Alright, lets end all this bull-krap !!!
    
    I made the statement (Milking...) in regards to useing something to 
    get the team up. That this has been CU's "extra edge" to TO GO WITH
    THEIR TALENT.
    
           "TO GO WITH THEIR TALENT"
           "TO GO WITH THEIR TALENT"
           "TO GO WITH THEIR TALENT"
           "TO GO WITH THEIR TALENT"
           "TO GO WITH THEIR TALENT"
           "TO GO WITH THEIR TALENT"
           "TO GO WITH THEIR TALENT"
           "TO GO WITH THEIR TALENT"
    
    
    How many times do I have to say this so you will hear what I am really
    saying. I did state that I believe the CU emotions were genuine. Maybee
    this will help. If, God forbid, a prominant Husker player died, the NU
    team would do the same thing.
    
    I simply stated that this added edge has propelled CU beyond their
    normal physical abilites. It would any team. It natural. This is no
    cut. You guys are way over sensitive.
    
    As far as the comments about NU changing things. Possibly firing coach
    Osborne. I agree. Something needs to change. After 18 years straigt
    finishing top-10 (A streak which could possibly end if NU looses to
    FSU), getting top-10 again is like kissing your sister. Something
    needs to be done.
    
    But think about it. How many programs would fire the coach after a
    decade in which their team had the winningist record overall and
    finished top-10 every year? Not many, and it wont happen at nebraska.
    Unfortunately, nothing will change soon at Nebraska.
    
    					Nebraska Marty

    re: .16
    
    Absalutely Glen. If CU wins the natl championship over ND in the Orange
    Bowl I will be a believer.
    
    The name stuff works both ways. Bugeaters started in here long before
    clippers. And you know what, go back to the old file. I dident start
    clippers. I picked up on if from another noter who is not seen to often
    here. I have even on many occasions called NU the Bugeaters which I 
    think is just as stupid and funny as NU's maskot - Harry Husker.
    
    You guys are over reacting way too much.
    
    					Nebraska Marty

    Come-on Marty....
    
    The real reason that the CU team is pumped up that McCartney has
    promised his second daughter to the Orange Bowl MVP.
    
    That's the "EXTRA EDGE"
    
    Jeff 

    Gee whiz Marty, you should be proud of Cornhusker heritage.  Since
    NU's nickname actually was the the "Bugeaters" you shouldn't take
    it as an insult.  I've heard the Cowboys called "the Aggies" more
    times than their real name and always beam with pride.  (OSU was
    "The Oklahoma A & M Aggies")  There's chills going down my spine
    right now!
    
    Cowboy (tearfully)
    

    BBall RESULTS:
    
    #4 Missouri 93
    #5 Illinois 101
    
    (U of M's first loss)
    
    Cowboy
    

    			    BIG-8 ALL-DECADE TEAM
    
    1ST TEAM OFFENSE    		1ST TEAM DEFENSE
    
    QB-Turner Gill	Nebraska       	DT-Rick Bryan		Oklahoma
    WR-Hart Lee Dykes	Oklahoma State 	DT-Leslie O'Neal	Oklahoma St
    OG-Dean Steinkuhler	Nebraska       	NG-Tony Casillas	Oklahoma
    OG-Anthony Phillips	Oklahoma       	DE-Broderick Thomas	Nebraska
     C-Dave Rimington	Nebraska     	DE-Darrell Reed		Oklahoma 	
    OT-John Clay	Missouri       	LB-Willie Pless		Kansas
    OT-Karl Nelson	Iowa State     	LB-Brian Bosworth	Oklahoma
    TE-Keith Jackson	Oklahoma     	DB-Mark Moore		Oklahoma St
    RB-Barry Sanders 	Oklahoma State 	DB-Rickey Dixon		Oklahoma
    RB-Mike Rozier	Nebraska      	DB-Mickey Pruitt	Colorado
    RB-Thurman Thomas	Oklahoma State 	DB-Eric McMillan	Missouri
    PK-Larry Roach	Oklahoma State 	 P-Barry Helton		Colorado
    KR-Irving Fryar	Nebraska
    
    
    HONORABLE MENTION
    
    OFFENSE				DEFENSE
    
    OT-Conrad Goode	Missouri        DE-Neil Smith		Nebraska
    OT-Howard Richards	Missouri       	DE-Kevin Murphy		Oklahoma
    OG-Mark Hutson	Oklahoma       	DL-Danny Noonan		Nebraska
    OG-Paul Blair	Oklahoma State	LB-Kanavis McGhee	Colorado
    WR-David Verser	Kansas       	LB-Jimmy Williams	Nebraska
    RB-Dwayne Crutchfield Iowa State 	LB-Ricky Young		Oklahoma St
    QB-Jamelle Holieway	Oklahoma        LB-Mark Munford		Nebraska
    QB-Mike Gundy	Oklahoma State  LB-Dante Jones		Oklahoma
    PK-Cary Blanchard	Oklahoma State  LB-Mike Knox		Nebraska
    PK-Tim Lashar	Oklahoma        DB-Adrian Jones		Missouri
    PK-Bruce Kallmeyer	Kansas       	DB-Victor Scott		Colorado
    KR-Jeff Campbell	Colorado       	DB-David Vickers	Oklahoma
    KR-Jo Jo Collins	Colorado        DB-Scott Case		Oklahoma
                                       	DB-Eric Wright		Missouri
                                        DB-Bret Clark		Nebraska
    					DB-Barton Hundley	Kansas St
    					 P-Bucky Scribner	Kansas
                            

    If basketball had bowl games, that Missouri-Illinois game would've been
    called "The Investigation Bowl".  
    
    If they play again next year it could probably be renamed to "The
    Probation Bowl".
    
    Heh heh.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    I dont know about Illinois, but I do know that Mizzou is in deep water
    with the NCAA in basketball. Too bad, I like Tigers Basketball.
    
    Anybody know more details about this?
    
    						Nebraska Marty

    		BIG-8 BBall Standings  12-25-89
    
    			Conference 	All games
    			W   L   Pct	W   L   Pct
    
    	Kansas		0   0   .000	11  0   1.000
    	Oklahoma	0   0   .000	 5  0   1.000
    	Missouri	0   0   .000	 9  1    .900
    	Colorado	0   0   .000	 7  2    .778
    	Okla State	0   0   .000	 5  2    .714
    	Iowa State	0   0   .000	 4  4    .500
    	Kansas State	0   0   .000	 5  5    .500
    	Nebraska	0   0   .000	 4  5    .444
    

    Games tomorrow:
    
    James Madison at Oklahoma
    Missouri at Memphis State
    Pittsburgh vs. Oklahoma State in Kuppenheimer Classic
    
    Also in Kuppenheimer Classic at Atlanta-1st round
    	Morehead State vs. Georgia Tech
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    BBall Results:
    
    Oklahoma 142
    James Madison 109
    
    Missouri 71
    Memphis State 65
    
    
    
    Kuppenheimer Classic:
    
    Oklahoma State 81
    Pittsburgh 92
    
    Georgia Tech 98
    Morehead State 76
    
    
    Today:
    
    Oklahoma State vs. Morehead State in Kuppenheimer Classic
    Austin Peay vs. Kansas State in Sun Carnival
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    BBall Results:
    
    (for 3rd place in Kuppenheimer Classic)
    Oklahoma State 84
    Morehead State 77
    
    Next games:
    
    Kansas vs Texas-Pan American in BMA Classic
    Kansas State in Sun Carnival
    Oklahoma vs N. Texas in All-College tourney
    Colorado (-10) vs Massachusetts in Mile High Classic
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    Well, the bowl games are over and BOTH Big-8 teams loose. 
    
    The Big-8 has obviously fallen off. I noticed a patern in both the
    Orange Bowl and Fiesta Bowl. It has to do with passing. Both offense
    and defense.
    
    Neither CU or NU could stop their opponents passing game. It killed
    both teams. CU's passing game was virtually worthless against both
    ND and NU. Nebraska's passing game was better than in the past this
    year but not great. Same goes with Oklahoma. The pattern in college
    football the past few years has been that the pro sytle offenses have
    been the powerhouses. Miami, Fla State etc. Also ND has had an
    extremely balanced attack with a real good passing game.
    
    NU, OU, and CU dont defend the pass well because the Big-8 is 15 years
    behind the times. It is not a passing conference overall. Yes, there
    are a couple of teams who throw a lot, but the Big-8 is still known as
    a rushing conference.
    
    The Big-8 needs to modernize !!! Untill Osborne, McCarney, and the OU
    coach realize this we will see todays results repeated again and again
    on future Bowl days.
    
    						Nebraska Marty

    
    				Fiesta Bowl
    
    Maaaannnnn, is that FSU QB a great one. Awesome! He made the Husker
    backfield look like a bunch of cheerleaders. Willis - 421 yards, 5 TD's
    and zip interceptions. The young NU backfield was helpless. Willis was
    also very courageous bacuase he spent half the night on his back
    due to the NU line and linebackers were all over him. But this dident
    rattle him in the least. Normally if you pressure the QB like that you
    can stop the passing game. Not this guy. Can you believe Willis and
    Gdowski have sat the bench the last 3 years? Unbelievable !!!
    
    How about that first quarter. It's obvious Osborne knew he had to pull
    out all the stops to win. And Bowden came back with a roosky of his
    own. At the end of the first quarter I thought it was going to be a
    battle to the end.
    
    Then Willis took over and it dident take long to see just how good
    FSU is. I believe they would have won against anyone. They wont get
    number one but I think they are the best team in the country. You saw
    what they did to the Huskers. And while the Huskers are not as good as
    in past years, they still arent duck soup.
    
    Speaking of that, I dont think NU is a top-10 team this year. They are
    still a good team but not the traditional powerhouse people are used to
    seeing in NU. However, they are a young team by Nebraska standards.
    
    Nebraska has averaged 12 passes a game this year. Osbornes offensive
    scheme is a good one to throw from. I think that if they averaged 20
    to 25 passes a game they would be a much better team. Also they should
    work on backfield recruiting. I'm sure they will.
    
    I think you will see Osborne make some adjustments. But not any major
    changes - unfortunately. One thing is for sure: THE HUSKERS WILL BE
    BACK!!!!
    
    						Nebraska Marty

    
    				Orange Bowl
    
    My condolences to you CU fans. I know the dissapointment. I know it
    first hand. I'm a Cornhusker fan so I know what it is like to have my
    team blow the national championship. The hurt afterwards is terrible.
    Thus, when I have heard the CU fans being so confident going into the
    Orange Bowl I would just shake my head with a knowing smile on my face.
    And I knew that CU being a very good but a one dimentional (Run) team
    would problably get beat. 
    
    CU played a good game. Blowing the oportunities in the first half
    killed them. You cant do that against quality teams and win in most
    cases.
    
    The obvious problem CU had was what I spoke about in .29 - passing!!
    CU's passing game was hapless and they had much trouble stopping the
    ND passing game.
    
    CU has nothing to be ashamed of. They had a great season and, yes, SAL
    would have been extremely proud of them - win or loose the Orange Bowl.
    
    	WARNING - CU fans may not want to read what follows. Just type
                  NEXT to skip it. And dont say I dident warn you if you
                  do read the rest of this note !!!
    
    
    First off, now that the season is over and SAL has been an inspiration
    to his teamates, LET THE KID DIE PLEASE. The rest of the country
    outside of Colorado is sick to death of hearing about it. Sal would
    have been proud. Now he's gone, just let him rest in peace.
    
    Holtz hit the nail right on the head with just about everything he said
    this week. He saw all the game films. He knew why CU was where they
    were. His statements about CU living a lie this season and ND taking
    over in the second half were exactly right.
    
    CU went undefeated because they have been on a mission. Win it for SAL.
    The CU fans have underestimated this. CU has played above their
    physical talent largely because of it. CU is a very good team but not
    a national champion calaber team. Holtz knew this. CU is vulnerable to
    the pass and their passing game stinks. They are way to one-dimentional
    to win the national championship.
    
    As I stated in .30, NU is not a top-10 team this year. And CU literally
    struggled to get by them AT HOME while they were flying high with
    emotion. Holtz saw whe CU NU films. He knew this.
    
    Lets face it Colorado and Nebraska fans, the Big-8 is out of stride and
    a cut below now. But we all know that what goes around, comes around.
    The Big-8 will again be a top conference but some modernization must
    take place.
    
    I still say that the best team did not represent the Big-8 in the
    Orange Bowl. But it is a moot point with Nebraskas showing against FSU.
    Again lets face it, the better Big-8 teams cant match up to the
    national powerhouses who have pro style offenses. I know that Barry
    Switzer would agree with me as he saw some of his great Okie teams
    loose to pro style Miami.
    
    CU will be back next year and will challenge for the Big-8 title again.
    However, SAL will not die again next year, the Nebraska game is in
    Lincoln, and this years young Husker squad should be better next year.
    I CANT WAIT. Bring on the Buffs!!! Go Big Red. Even though the Big Red
    has a red face now. I hope Osborne makes some big changes!!!
    
    						Nebraska Marty

    And for all you fans of Big 8 hoops:
    
    Friday, December 29, first round of the Mile High Classic:
    
    The University of Massachusetts 78
    The University of Colorado      71
    
    John

Re: 27.31 by CSC32::M_HENDERSON

In spite of the loss to Notre Dame, I tip my hat to the entire
CU staff.  McCartney did a hell of a job with the team all year.  They're
still a young team and will be back next year.

I'd like to think that had CU scored at least two times in the first
half, the outcome would have been different, but somehow I think
Notre Dame would still have used their experience to pull the win
out.

Notre Dame's experience in big games really came through in the second
half.   Have to give 'em credit.  However, I still disagree with Holtz'
comment about CU living a lie all year...CU was clearly the best of
the Big-8 this year...Nebraska's debacle against Florida State was
proof.

Dale

    CU needed to score atleast 10 points in the first half but ended up
    with 0.  This may have been enough to keep the momentum going long
    enough to win it.  You have to give ND credit for coming out in the
    2nd half with the changes to take control of the game.
    
    *Next year* was supposed to be Colorado's year so expect to see
    them back stronger.  I expect them to be working on their passing
    game more for next year.
    
    Congrats to CU for a great year.
    
    Cowboy
    

    Yes, I have to agree with the assessment of Nebraska, not much there
    last night. I predicted in the old Sports Note a big FSU victory, I'm
    glad I wasn't wrong. 
    
    Despite the "sour grapes" from middle America, CU gave a better account
    of themselves than Nebraska would have. I hate to say it because I
    can't stand Notre Dame, but ND would have crushed Nebraska almost as
    badly as FSU did.
    
    Had the 'Buffs not blown the potential for 17 first half points, the
    outcome might have been different. I got the feeling watching the game,
    that the longer it went on, the more it favored ND.
    
    CU has nothing to be ashamed of. They had a great season, and the few
    times we were able to see them here in the east, they were fun to
    watch. My hat is off to them and their fans, and we'll be watching for
    them next year.  

    BBall games today:
    
    Austin Peay at Missouri
    W. Kentucky at Kansas State (-13^)
    Colorado at E. Michigan (-3^)
    
    
    			BIG-8 Standings
    
                Conferences	All games
    		W  L	Pct.	W  L	Pct.
    Kansas	0  0	.000	13 0	1.000
    Oklahoma	0  0	.000	 8 0	1.000
    Missouri	0  0	.000	11 1	 .917
    Oklahoma St	0  0	.000	 6 3	 .667
    Colorado	0  0	.000	 7 4	 .636
    Iowa St	0  0	.000	 4 4	 .500
    Kansas St	0  0	.000	 6 6 	 .500
    Nebraska	0  0	.000	 5 5	 .500
    
    
    
    BIG-8 Coach's Poll:			Denver Post's Picks:
    
    1 Missouri     46 votes             1 Missouri
    2 Kansas       45                   2 Oklahoma
    3 Oklahoma	   38                   3 Kansas
    4 Oklahoma St  31                   4 Okahoma State
    5 Kansas St	   24                   5 Kansas State
    6 Colorado	   16                   6 Colorado
    7 Iowa St	   16                   7 Iowa State
    8 Nebraska	    8                   8 Nebraska
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    	I beg to differ on the matchup of CU/ND and FSU/NU. I think
    Nebraska matches up better with ND, due to size and strength, and
    CU better with FSU due to team speed. I had a feeling NU was going
    to be crushed, but was hoping otherwise. I still think that Miami
    and FSU are the 2 best teams in the nation. If they played each
    other 10 times, it would probably end up 5-5.

    -1
    Might be, but that assumes that Nebraska is a good football team, which
    they are not. At least a half a dozen bowl teams would have cleaned
    their clocks over and above what FSU did to them....Auburn, Miami,
    Notre Dame, Tennessee, Alabama, and Clemson come to mind. I'll even go
    a few better and add Michigan, USC, and perhaps Arkansas, and 
    Texas A&M.
    
    Marty said it all before, it's time for a change in the Big 8. 

    	Given, a lot of teams would have cleaned Nebraska's clock 
    yesterday. They fumbled 5 times losing 3, and were intercepted 
    2 times. 5 turnovers are hard to overcome. Colorado could have beaten
    ND had they not made mistakes, Arkansas would have beaten Tennessee,
    the list can go on. FSU had no turnovers yesterday and would have
    beaten ANY ONE OF THE TEAMS that played yesterday. They played
    error-free ball and just dominated the Huskers plain and simple.
    	NU this year is not deserving of a top ten ranking for the first
    time in ~15 years, they couldn't beat a good team.
    There, I said it and I feel better.........
    
    Keith

    -1
    Have to agree with you. FSU probably would have beaten just about
    anyone. Their hopes for a National Championship died in the last minute
    of the game on Opening Day (their loss to Clemson the next week not
    withstanding). Only goes to show you, can't always take those opening
    day "bunnies"  for granted! 

    You cant say that Nebraska is not a "good" team. You can say they are
    not a great team and that they are not anywhere close to past Husker
    quality. You can also say that the Big-8 style of play is out-dated.
    The Huskers have lots of talent.
    
    And how can you say that any and all bowl teams yesterday would clean
    NU's clock? Remember, NU almost beat CU at CU. This shows that they
    can play with very good teams. Your reasoning sounds like a little
    "sour grapes" itself. I repeat myself, however, NU is not a top-10 team
    this year. And Keith, this will be the first time in 20 years that
    NU wont finish top-10.
    
    I believe that FSU is the best team in the country. And yes, the Buffs
    have nothing to be ashamed of and lots to be proud of.
    
    					Nebraska Marty

    Nebraska Marty, at least you were a good sport about it all.  You gave
    your honest opinion and didn't go on a personal attack.  And, you had
    the courtesy to forewarn the readers that they may not like what you
    wrote hidden by a form feed.
    
    Those who attacked you are out of line.  They simply should've hit that
    famous N/U key, and they would've went home a little happier.......
    
    And thems the facks.
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Hawk

    BBall results:
    
    Kansas State 75
    W. Kentucky 51
    
    Missouri 84
    Austin Peay 48
    
    
    
    Today:
    
    Alaska-Anchorage at Oklahoma
    Chicago St at Oklahoma State
    
    Cowboy
    

    Marty
    I have no idea how you can call my statement "sour grapes".  I did,
    however, tell you a month ago that FSU would abuse Nebraska. They did,
    and by the way, so would 8 of the 10 teams mentioned.  
    
    I personally have no feeling one way or the other about Nebraska, but  
    I've thought for a long time that they are over-rated. I have no
    affiliation with any Big 8 school, so I can assure you there are no
    "sour grapes" here. 
    
    Lighten up, Nebraska isn't as bad as you make them out to be, and hey,
    if you're lucky, you too, will  have the chance to be abused in the 
    Orange Bowl by the 'Canes next year! We (BC) have a date with them next 
    November 17th, and I can assure you that the score will be huge!
    
    Later.....
    Jerry
    

    
    Just for the record, Marty, Nebraska has finished out of the Top 10
    (AP) as recently as 1985.  They have finished in the Top 20 every year
    since 1969, however, and no school matches that.
    
    glenn
    

    Yeah right, Hawk.  He puts a big disclaimer right before the form
    feed that CU fans better not read past this point.  Gimme a break.
    What are we supposed to do?  Let his corn-fed fingers spew a bunch
    of trash about the Buffs and do nothing?  You're right.  It's just
    his opinion.  Well, here's mine.......he's been reading too many
    Omaha newspapers!  
    
    I don't agree that CU needs to *change* their offense to a pro-
    style.  They shoved it right down ND's throats in the first
    half.  It easily could have been 17-0.  Their offensive philosophy
    didn't hurt them.  Mistakes did!  If they did score 17 in the first
    half, and you add the 6 in the second, the final score would have
    been 23-21.  I know, I know, if if if......
    
    amf,
    
    Claybone

    
    Claybone, 1st and goal from the one and no touchdown isn't exactly
    ramming it down ND's throat.......If it easily could have been 17-0
    why wasn't it? Notre Dame like many other top defenses bends but
    doesn't break.....
    
    mike
    
    

    Coach McCartney said after the game that they would be improving
    the passing game and this isn't an idea that popped into his head
    during the ND game.  At the beginning of the season last year Mac
    planned on getting the rushing perfected and the passing game to
    a point were it was effective.  The following year (1990) he
    planned to work on the passing to get it to where Hagan would be
    a "good" passing QB.  Mac thinks Hagan has the talent to be passing
    threat.
    
    Mac seems to have his team to the point were they're supposed to
    be now.  If CU had been able to work on passing more this last
    season I'm sure that the ND/CU game would have had a different
    outcome.
    
    Cowboy
    

    Mike,
    
    	I qualified it with "if if if...".  You call that bending?
    	I call it a piece of swiss cheese.  They got lucky and
    	plugged the right hole ;^).  I KINDA thought Bienemy scored.
    	Mac should not have called a sneak with two huge linemen
    	lined up over the center.  They should have called Bienemy
    	up the middle again on 2cd down and 3rd if they needed to.
    	It appeared Bienemy was heading to the endzone when the
    	leprochaun ran out onto the field and knocked the ball out
    	of his hands.  That's 14.  How many times do you miss a
    	22(?) yard field goal?  There, 17 points.  See how easy
    	it could have been 17-0?  It's easy for this Buffalo headed
    	individual!  
    
    	What sour grapes come Sunday?  Are your jints gonna lose?
    
    Claybone

    The only thing the BIG 8 teams need to change is the defensive strategy
    into a Pro-style 4-3 that the Bears, Eagles teams run. This Defense has
    proven itself as a Pro-style pass killer.
    
    The Big 8 has proven that a ball control run orientated offense kills
    the clock which is how to win against the Miami's and BYU's. 
    
    Jeff

    re: .50 
    
    when was the last time the big 8 beat miami ??????
    
    big 8 has a horrible record against miami and fsu in the '80's.

    When was the last time the Big 8 beat Miami ??????
    
    
    I don't care....
    
    
    All I said is the way to beat a Pro-style offense ala Miami, BYU is to
    instill a 4-3 defense. 
    
    Jeff

    
    Nebraska beat Miami in the Gotham Bowl!
    
    Bob V.
    

    re: last few
    
    No Big-8 team has beaten Miami in the '80s.
    
    Nebraska came close in '83 when the Huskers were the better team (by
    national consensus) but still got beat. Of course on Miami's home
    field in a bowl. Geez I am a whiner arent I !!!   ;^)
   
    This makes 2 statements - Miami's talent and Pro style vs Big-8 grind
    it out style of play.
    
    re: .45
    
    Glen, your right, there is an * behing the statement about Nebraksa
    finishing top-10 for each of the past 19 seasons. It should read
    that NU has finished top 10 in at least one of the 2 polls for each
    of the past 19 seasons. The one season that you mentioned they made
    # 10 in only one of the polls. This is something that Osborne can be
    proud of even though he has blown the national championship most of
    those years. The top-10 thing is what has kept him in favor with the
    Nebraska people in the face of all that choking.
    
    re: .46
    
    Claybone, you have a point there but history has proven one thing. When
    a grind it out team gets behind - it's over! Forget any thoughts of a
    comback. A mistake or 2 early, a good team gets ahead by a couple of
    TD's and it's over for Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Colorado.
    
    Now if a grind it out team grunts and grinds out a lead, then it's
    easier for them to hold it with a couple of 8 min drives. But against
    other powerhouses this does not always work.
    
    As I see it, here is what has happened to NU. In the late 60's and into
    the late 70's NU was the nations leader in weight training. In the 60's
    they hired a strengh coach named Boyd Epply. He was ahead of his time.
    He began the strength program at NU with advanced (for that day)
    methods and this largly explains NU's back to back natl titles in 70
    and 71. Up untill about the mid 70's NU held a large advantage in this
    field. Then other colleges started coming to Nebraska and Boyd Epply
    to study their program. Among the distinguished vistiors was a guy
    named Joe Paterno. The list is long and impressive. Several of Epply's
    assistants over the years have gone onto be strength coaches at other
    major universities and have spread Epply's philosophies to other
    schools.
    
    Man, you should see Nebrska's training room. Huge!!! They've got all
    the latest hi tech stuff and enough work stations for every single NU
    football player to work out SIMULTANIOUSLY !!! And they are going to
    spend 500 thousand more on it this year. Geez!
    
    There is only one problem now. Many other schools have caught up to NU
    in this area and have players just as strong as NU overall. This means
    the Huskers cant play grind it out in your face against the top teams
    any more and expect to win with consistancy over top-10 teams. Just
    look an Nu's bowl record in the 80's. Enough said.
    
    Well, toward the end of the 70's Osborne begans to see Oklahoma teams
    that were just as physically strong as NU but with all this great team
    speed to boot. So he started going for more speed (However not with
    enough emphisis on it in my opinion) in recruiting. In a few years you
    started seeing people like Ivring Fryar, Turner Gill, Roger Craig,
    Stever Taylor etc in a Husker uniform. Better speed. But still not
    good enough. But you will notice all of the names I mentioned are
    offensive players.
    
    As the 80's have progressed, he has recurited quicker defesive players
    such as Broderick Thomas, Bret Clark, Neil Smith etc. His defensive
    line has shrunk in weight somewhat in favor of more speed and his
    linebackers have gotten quicker also. But not enough. Miami has proven
    you can have BOTH strength AND speed. NU needs to follow that lead.
    
    As I said before, Osborne's offensive scheme is a good one to pass
    from. His schemes are very deceptive. It's just that he's been way to
    predictable with it. If he would just pass 24 or so times a game
    instead of 12 and spend more time practicing the passing game, NU 
    could be a powerhouse again, and start winning bowl games. Could
    you imagine it, a great passing game to go with NU's rushing? Geez
    it would be devastating. If this dosent happen then history will
    repeat itself time and time again.
    
    By the way Epply is still the NU strength coach. Pro and college teams
    have tried to lure him away thru the years but he likes it an NU.
    
    I'll have to get some Omaha papers from my brother to see what the
    fan reaction is after the Fiesta Bowl. I hope it's one of outrage and
    discontent. Maybee this will help nudge Osbore to some action.
    
    Nebraska still has a top program, it's just been outdated. You gotta
    change with the times.
    
    					Nebraska Marty

    In the past, Nebraska seems to have been successful by recruiting
    "skilled " position players (RB, WR, DB, QB) and growing its linemen
    through a combination of its walkon program, its weight program
    and the fact that every kid in every small town in Nebraska probably
    wants to play for the Big Red.  In other words, they got the size
    from home and the speed from other parts of the country, and took
    the raw material for the line and developed it in-house.
    
    Only problem with that now is that in Florida, for example, they
    develop linemen who are just as big as those in Nebraska, but faster
    and quicker.
    
    The times they are a-changin', and Nebraska is going to have to
    change with them or fall behind.
    
    John

    Big-8 fans can be proud of something. Osborne and McArtney! They are
    men of high character and morals. I know more about Osborne than I
    do about McArtney since I lived in Nebraska my whole life untill
    recently. So I will concentrate more on Osborne since I have more
    knowledge of him.
    
    But first McArtney. He and Osborne are both professing and practicing
    Chistians. It's not just something in theory for them, it's a way of
    life.
    
    McArtneys handling of his daughters illigitamate pregnacy via Sal is
    quite impressive. First, he supported and loved his daughter in the
    face of this. Secondly, instead of coming down on Sal, he worked with
    him. Knowing Sal had a troubled background he was patient and non-
    condeming. He brought Sal to Christianity before he passed away.
    Now that is love, patience, and character. He is now a very proud and
    loving grandparent. Much better than an abortion or rejection of the
    people involved. He turned a negative into a positve. Excellent role
    model !!!
    
    Now for Osborne. Most people not close to Nebraska football just assume
    that Osborne and NU are a dirty program just because they are a winning
    program (Winningist in the 80's by the way. I just HAD to ge that in).
    This is not so.
    
    I'll give you a little amuseing story as an example. A couple of years
    ago, I think it was in 87 or 88, Nu was playing lowly Iowa State at ISU.
    NU had a very lackluster first half and was only ahead by 7 or
    something like that. Iowa State had more yards then NU and looked good.
    I have heard Osborne say many times that if NU is getting beat he does
    not get upset with the players IF he feels they are giving 100% effort.
    Well in this case he felt the players were not putting out anywhere near
    100%.
    
    Well, the NU players came out the second half and royaly stopmed big
    time. Total domination. Post game interviews with the players indicated
    why. It seems that Dr. Tom got royally mad at halftime because of lack
    of effort by his players. They were dogging it. Osborne could be heard
    from outside the locker room yelling at his players. Can you imagine
    it, Tom Osborne??? Well, the big deal about all of this according to
    the players was that the Osborne used the word "dagummit" when yelling
    at them. "Dagummit" !!! The players said that Osborne NEVER swears
    period and using this word was tantamount to some other big coach
    swearing up a blue streak at halftime. This is one of the few known
    times that Osborne raised his voice.
    
    (I believe that if he yelled more and used "dagummit" more, he would
    win more big games, but thats not the point of this note)
    
    I guarantee you that any garbage illeagle stuff than may be going on
    at Nebraska is done behind Osborne's back and without his knowledge.
    For example steroids or booster stuff. Also, Osborne does not turn
    his head to claim ignorance such as Switzer appeared to do. I dont know
    about McArtney but I would guess he is the same way based on his
    character as a man also.
    
    A good source for more info about Osborne is his book "More Than
    Winning"
    
    Us Big-8 fans have much to be proud of in these 2. I know that us
    Nebraska people are proud as can be of Osborne, even with his flaws.
    Dagummit !!!
    
    					Nebraska Marty

    Marty,
    
    	You're right about history and grind it out teams.  The ONE time
    	I saw a grind it out team come back from a BIG deficit was
    	Oklahoma at Nebraska.  That's not a dig.  I still maintain that
    	CU would have won with their grind it out game plan but their
    	own mistakes killed them.
    
    	I can appreciate your comments about coaches and chewing out
    	their players.  We had a coach in high school who needed his
    	mouth washed out with Janitor-in-a-Drum!  I woulda loved to 
    	have kicked him in the filberts!  Did anybody catch the
    	Tennessee-Arkansas game.  A Vol player was coming off the
    	field and the coach was giving him a real earfull.  The TV
    	guys had a microphone on the sideline which picked up
    	everything.  Did you see Mac put his arm around Culbertson,
    	the kicker, after his screwups?  It didn't appear he was
    	chewing him out.  Of course, there was no microphone nearby...;^)
    
    Claybone

    re: -1
    
    Marty,
>    
>    	You're right about history and grind it out teams.  The ONE time
>    	I saw a grind it out team come back from a BIG deficit was
>    	Oklahoma at Nebraska.  That's not a dig.  I still maintain that
>    	CU would have won with their grind it out game plan but their
>    	own mistakes killed them.
    
    Claybone, this is exactly my point. A grind it out team has to play
    flawless ball to win against a top team. I mean flawless. An early
    mistake or 2 any your dead. And it's difficult (not impssible) to
    play flawlessly after a 6 week layoff before a bowl game.
    
    I dident take the OU NU reference as a jab. It's just fact. Man, I
    was so Pi$$ed after that game I had to go outside and trow rocks at
    a tree else I would have broken something in the house.  ;^)
    
    By the way, I've noticed how people are taking great joy in bashing
    Nebraska in notes 59 and 96. Im not just speaking of CU fans who may
    be reacting to my opinions. But fans in general.
    
    Well I'm not upset about this at all. It simply tells me that the NU
    program is recognized and respected around the country as a top notch
    program.
    
    Sports fans in general have one thing in common. They like to see a
    winner beaten and an underdog win.
    
    When the Celts win championships and win 60+ games a year people like
    to see them get beaten. Same for the Lakers. Same for the 49'ers, the
    Oakland A's and on and on.
    
    You know, it's no shame for the Huskers to be down this year. How many
    teams have kept up a top 10 program for so long. NONE!! Other schools
    would love to have NU's record and success. What goes up must come
    down. It's just the way things work. Sooner (No pun intended on OU)or
    later your going to have a down period. It's just life in the jungle.
    I know they will be back anyway. GO BIG RED!!!
    
    					Nebraska Marty

>I KINDA thought Bienemy scored.

Clay, that's an accepted and expected part of playing Notre Dame.  If CU
continues to build its program and you keep playing ND, you'll get used to
it.

I've been watching USC and ND play for over 15 years and I've seen
so many of those, it's not funny.

You should here the ND ex-players joke about the refs.  It's an on-going
rite of passage.

Dan

    
    Unfortunately, Dan, it's been my observation that USC ranks a close
    runner-up to Notre Dame as the media darling of college football.  At 
    least it was that way in the 70's, but USC hasn't been good enough in 
    the 80's for me to continue to make that claim.  Something about the
    big city, the massive Coliseum, the uniforms, the USC band, the mascot 
    Trojan horse, the cheerleaders, the David-versus-Goliath rivalry with 
    the Big 10 in the Rose Bowl all combine to make USC an irresistible 
    team.  I must admit that even I'm sucked in by it.  I've rooted for USC 
    in the Rose Bowl ever since Pat Haden connected on that 2-point 
    conversion in the '75 Rose Bowl to slay the evil Woody Hayes and the 
    hated Buckeyes... ;-)
    
    USC has also got a few officiating beauties to their credit, not the
    first of which was the holding call on Michigan's fake punt in this 
    year's Rose.  *The* absolute worst call I have ever seen in football 
    was Charles White's phantom touchdown in the 1979 Rose, when White
    dropped the ball on the three-yard line as he started his take-off. 
    That call gave USC the winning touchdown in a 17-10 victory over
    Michigan that earned them a share of the national title for 1978.  (I
    guess Bo's got a short memory.)  The Colorado goal line call doesn't 
    even compare to that one.
    
    glenn
    
                                                  

> I've rooted for USC 
>    in the Rose Bowl ever since Pat Haden connected on that 2-point 
>    conversion in the '75 Rose Bowl to slay the evil Woody Hayes and the 
>    hated Buckeyes... ;-)

That game was one of the great ones, wasn't it?  Pat Haden to the coach's
son, JJ McKay.  They scored to be down by one after a great drive at the
end of the game and went for 2 to win the game.  That's the way football
should be played, not like Ara or Pat Dye.

I'll agree that 'SC gets hyped, especially in the old days of Student
Body Right, but they haven't really pressed an advantage because of
it, nor have they (to my memory) so tastelessly abused their fame
as Notre Dame has gotten away with for years.  So compare, but
don't forget to contrast.

    >USC has also got a few officiating beauties to their credit, not the
    >first of which was the holding call on Michigan's fake punt in this 
    >year's Rose. 

On camera, they have the Michigan player with his arm wrapped around
the contain man on 'SC.  That's a flagrant penalty, one I'm sure is about the
easiest to call for a ref, since it happens at the end of the line like that.  It
also led directly to the success of the fake punt, because with no contain
man, all of a sudden its all green for the punter.   If Bo doesn't raise a fuss,
its an accepted but damning call.

But what happens next?  They punt, and Marinovich marches 'SC down field
for the winning score.  Bo sat there and wailed and forgot about playing the
game.  USC went through them so easily, that they unexpectedly left too much
time on the clock, and Michigan still had another chance.  And didn't gain a 
yard.  It was scary because they got some unnecessary makeup call (piling
on I think) to put them at the 40, but they've got a QB who makes Tony Rice
look like a passer in Taylor.

   >*The* absolute worst call I have ever seen in football 
   > was Charles White's phantom touchdown in the 1979 Rose, when White
   > dropped the ball on the three-yard line as he started his take-off. 
   > That call gave USC the winning touchdown in a 17-10 victory over
   
That one I'll give you.  As I recall, they made a great goal line stand for 2 or 
3 plays before the call.  But you certainly can't point to a pattern of such
calls, or benefits of overhype that ND enjoys.

Dan

    BBall results:
    
    Oklahoma 101
    Alaska-Anchorage 81
    
    Oklahoma State 67
    Chicago State 59
    
    Iowa State 75
    Ill-Chicago 76
    
    
    Today:
    
    Kansas at Wichita State (+14)
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    
    Sour grapes are back!!!
    

    BBall results:
    
    Kansas 93
    Wichita State 66
    
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    Some of the BIG-8 started their conference games Saturday.
    
    Missouri 78
    Oklahoma State 68
    
    Missouri win in Columbia with 2 players fighting the flu and
    another with a cracked rib.
    
    
    Kansas State 72
    Iowa State 68
    
    In Manhattan, KS.  KSU's Steve Henson scored 21 pts and sank
    2 free throws with 10 seconds left to beat ISU.  Henson had
    made his 100th consecutive start.
    
    
    Oklahoma 66
    Colorado 61
    
    In Boulder.  CU hasn't won a BIG-8 opener in 10 years but
    put a scare into 10-0 OU.
    
    
    Other BIG-8 games:
    
    Nebraska 99
    Sam Houston 91
    
    
    Cowboy
     
    
    Kansas 94
    Wihthrop 51
    
    Also,  with #2 KU's win over Winthrop and Syracuse's loss to
    Villanova KU will take over the #1 spot.  KU was 15-0 last
    during 1935 when Phog Allen coach them to a 21-0 start.

    Bball results:
    
    #1 Kansas 98
    Nebraska 93
    
    In KU's first game as #1 they had to come from a 13 point deficit in
    the 2nd half to win.  Kansas hasn't been ranked #1 in 33 years.
    
    
    
    Today:
    
    Ark.-Little Rock at Oklahoma
    S. Utah at Kansas State
    
    -------------------------------
    
    The BIG-8 is taking over the AP TOP 5.
    
    	#1 Kansas
    	#4 Oklahoma
    	#5 Missouri
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    
    Can anybody give me the schedule for CU or Missouri Basketball.
    Looking for the date of the Missouri at CU game.
    
    
      Thanks,   Drewski
    
    
    
    
    

    re: -1
    
    Yeah, can someone post the BIG-8 Bball schedules?
    
    
    Bball results:
    
    Oklahoma 134
    Ark.-Little Rock 81
    
    Kansas State 102
    S. Utah 56
    
    
    Today's games:
    
    Iowa State at Houston (+9)
    Kansas at Miami, Fla. (+21)
    New Orleans at Oklahoma State
    Southern U. at Missouri
    
    
    Cowboy
    

                  -< Missouri Tigers #1 in the Big-Eight... >-

    and MIZZOU just keeps on winning...amd winning...and winning....

    the big one JAN. 27th....Kansas at Missouri.....
    
    I'll take Mizzou by 5....
    
    

    Results:
    
    Iowa State 82
    Houston 83
    
    Oklahoma State 73
    New Orleans 61
    
    Missouri 106
    Southern U. 87
    
    Kansas 100
    Miami, Fl 73
    
    Cowboy
    
    

    my daughter informs me the mizzou - kansas game is JAN. 20th...
    
    not Jan 27 as I stated in .71...
    
    
    

    Bball results:
    
    Kansas 91
    Oklahoma State 77
    
    Oklahoma 103
    Texas 84
    
    Missouri 111
    Nebraska 95
    
    
    In this week's AP Poll....BIG-8 teams in 3 of the top 4:
    
    #1 KANSAS
    #2 Georgetown
    #3 OKLAHOMA
    #4 MISSOURI
    
    
    Today's games:
    
    Chicago State at Nebraska
    Creighton at Iowa State (-2^)
    Missouri at Oklahoma State (+1^)
    Oklahoma at Kansas State (+10)
    
    Cowboy
    

    Bball results:
    
    Kansas State 66
    #3 Oklahoma 51
    
    At Manhattan, KS, this was OU's first loss and was
    kept 71 points below their average. 
    
    
    #4 Missouri 72
    Oklahoma State 71
    
    Close one is Stillwater.  Cowboys should have a team that will
    compete by the end of the season.
    
    
    Creighton 99
    Iowa State 94
    
    Nebraska 92
    Chicago State 57
    
    Cowboy
    
    

    Bball results:
    
    Colorado 92
    Wisconsin-Milwaukee 74
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    RE:-1
    I hope that the 64 teams are assembled better than this ranking
    was assembled.  It's obvious that the BIG-8 is the superior
    conference this year.  The Big Ten and others will be knocked
    out of the tournament by 4 BIG-8 teams.
    
    Cowboy
    

    
    Hmmm. OU sure showed how powerful they really are the other night, huh?
    As long as they can play the Northeast Tulsa States, they look
    unbeatable.

    Hey, they got beat by another BIG-8 team.  It's got to be the
    toughest conference around!!!
    
    Cowboy
    

�    Hmmm. OU sure showed how powerful they really are the other night, huh?
�    As long as they can play the Northeast Tulsa States, they look
�    unbeatable.
    
    Hoot, it's not their fault.  It's the curse of the Longhorns.  When a
    ranked team beats Texas, they lose their next game.  It happened to LSU
    first, then OU.

    Re: last few
    
    
    
    BARF!!!!!
    

    Bball results:
    
    Oklahoma State 92
    S. Utah 68
    
    A S. Utah player broke his back during play under the basket but
    seems to have all his feeling--not paralized.
    
    Kansas 132
    Elizabeth City State 65
    
    
    
    Cowboy
    
    

    Oklahoma Baseball:
    
    OU named Stan Meek as new baseball coach to replace
    resigning Enos Semore.  
    
    Cowboy
    

    Anyone chastising Oklahoma for a early season wimpy schedule, check
    out that super-power, Elizabeth City State. Their lucky to have
    scored 65 points. 8^
    

    Yes, but Kansas will be lucky to score 65 against Missouri this
    Sat......hope their 132 vs. Elizabeth City State has their heads
    in the clouds cause Missouri Tigers will bring them back to earth..

    Kansas and Missouri should be a good match up.  KU doesn't have
    the individual stars but can really play as a team.  Missouri
    just barely got by Oklahoma State (72-71 at Stillwater) and KU
    didn't look that superior beating OSU by about 20 at KU. (OSU
    had turnover trouble and then cold shooting at the end).
    
    I don't know of another team they have both played.
    
    Cowboy
    

    Missouri 95  Kansas 87
    
    Missouri the only one of top 8 teams in country that didn't lose
    last week...LSU also got beat...Georgetown got beat...
    
    
    Missouri next tues against Rutgers on espn...hope they don't have
    a letdown...

    Missouri 89
    Rutgers  84
    
    next game Missouri at Colorado Jan. 27th
    
    

    Bball games today:
    
    Oklahoma State at Colorado (+2)    7:35 on 1090 AM Denver radio
    Akron at Kansas State 
    Iowa State at Oklahoma (-18)
    
    
    
    Missouri pulled out a close one last night on ESPN.  I hope they
    don't get careless and loose their #1 rating.
    
    Cowboy
    

    re: .90
    
    I agree because as others have proved the only place to go when
    your #1 is down...so it's just a matter of time...
    
    As long as they show up at NCAA playoff time ratings mean nothing
    other than everyone guns for you....

If the Tigers hadn't been at home they wouldn't be #1 right now. Rutgers came
to play (and not like an 8-10 team). They were up by ten before Mo. knew the
game had started.

Mike JN

================================================================================
Note 127.0                       Three #1 seeds?                       2 replies
MAIL::MCNIEL                                         19 lines  24-JAN-1990 12:06
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -<Let's talk NCAA Tourney possibilities for the Big Eight>- 
     
    	I count three:
    
    	Kansas  
        Missouri
    	Oklahoma
    
    QUESTION 1: Does a young Okie State or Colorado, or even a scrappy
    	        K-State stand a chance at getting in?
              
    QUESTION 2: What would their record(s) have to be?
    
    The BIG EIGHT is going to be seasoned and tough to beat come tourney
    time.
    
    Go Hawks!
    
    MGM      
================================================================================
Note 127.1                       Three #1 seeds?                          1 of 2
CNTROL::CHILDS "All's I need is a rope and a tree G" 12 lines  24-JAN-1990 12:59
             -< plus as they play one another losses will pile up >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    MGM, doubt you'll ever see three #1 seeds from any conference. The
    balance around the country is just too good right now.
    
    I'd say that the regular season Big 10 Champ, and the winners of
    the big east tournment, acc tournment and big eight tournment will
    get the number 1 seeds. Although last year Indiana did get screwed
    out their #1 seed but that had more to with not wanting to let the
    Hooisers play their first round games at their second home court...
    
    
    mike
================================================================================
Note 127.2                       Three #1 seeds?                          2 of 2
FTMUDG::REED "Oklahoma State athletic supporter"     19 lines  24-JAN-1990 13:05
                            -< I counted four.... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >	I count three:
    >
    >	Kansas  
    >   Missouri
    >	Oklahoma
    
    	Oklahoma State  (I count four)
    
    OSU lost to Missouri by 1 point and played Kansas (in Kansas) a good
    game. Turnovers lost the game for them. 
    
    The Big-8 is tough this year and I wouldn't be surprised to see all
    four of these teams loose to the other BIG-8 teams once or twice.
    (Other than to Nebraska, that is)
    
    Cowboy
    
    
    
    

    Mike,
    
    Oh, I agree...three (3) #1 seeds is just wishful thinking.  More
    like a #1, a #2, and/or #3 or #4 for the tri-state powers in seperate
    regionals would be more realistic.
    
    Hey Cowboy!  I am a Jayhawker and a proud resident of the State
    of Kansas (49th in tourism)...And, I am pulling for you goat-ropers
    to get in!  I think Oklahoma State has great atheletes and can beat
    anybody in the country on a given day.  My concern is with the coach.
    Can you tell us a little about him?   Is he like a Roy Williams
    (soon to be coach of the year), or is he more like Tubbs and Normys
    hands off/let em play style?
                                                                 
    MGM
    
    

    
    Colorado doesn't stand a chance of getting in the NCAA tourny. They
    aren't good. Colorado St. will get in though. Colorado will be lucky 
    to get a NIT bid.

    re: Oklahoma State BBall coach
    
    Leonard Hamilton is in his 4th or 5th year as head coach.  He was
    hired from Kentucky where he was an assistant and known as an
    excellent recruiter.  Hamilton seems to be a good coach but relies
    on his recruiting talents rather than "developing" players.  He
    apparently goes after the stronger type player.  His recruiting
    talent has paid off, too--I read that he has taken the top state
    prospect from OU every year except one.
    
    I wouldn't be surprised to see him have OSU run with OU rather than
    try to slow it down.  He's recruited the right players to play a fast,
    physical game--as long as they don't turn the ball over they can play
    with anyone. (Which is the one thing that has hurt OSU this year.)
    
    Hamilton has gradually improved the team each year which goes back
    to his ability to recruit.
    
    	Games OSU could win:
    		Kansas at OSU
    		OU at OSU
    		OSU at OU (a long shot, I admit)
    		OSU at Missouri (another long shot but not surprising after
    			the UM/OSU at OSU)
    
    This BIG-8 season is looking like it may be better than the KU/OU
    championship year.
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    Bball results:
    
    Oklahoma State 71
    Colorado 68
    
    OSU overcame a 16-pt deficit in the 2nd half with a 11-2 run to
    end a 3-year losing streak at Boulder.  CU's loss began after
    Stevie Wise's 3-pointer upped CU's lead to 64-55 with 3:53 left.
    Buffs coach Tom Miller thought that they got relaxed and started
    going individual.  From that point CU only made 1 basket while
    OSU scored 16 points.  OSU's Byron Houston's turnaround jumper
    with 2:15 left pulled them to within 2 at 66-64 and then his
    dunk with 1:14 tied it at 66.  Houston played the entire 2nd
    half without picking up his 4th foul--and managed to draw
    several fouls.  He scored 10 of his 16 points and got 6 of his
    12 rebounds in the 2nd, also.  OSU's game winner came at the
    buzzer when John Potter made a 3-pointer. (Potter missed the
    potential game winner against Missouri last week).  
    
    CU committed 10 of their 14 turnovers in the 2nd half and with
    Rodell Guest fouling out at 6:45 left and Asad Ali with 3:34
    left the Buffs apparently fell apart. CU's conference leader
    Shaun Vandiver missed 2 shots at the end and was held 10 pts
    below his conference leading average.
    
    
    Oklahoma 107
    Iowa State 96
    
    OU took control of this see-saw match in Norman with a 10-3 
    run.  Billy Tubbs said, "We're struggling, but you've got
    something going right when you shoot 44% and the other team
    shoots 51% and we win."
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    
    The Bedlam Series turns to basketball this Saturday in Norman.
    
    OOOOOOOO   SSSSSSSS   UUU  UUU            OOOOOOOO   UUU  UUU
    OOOOOOOO   SSSSSSSS   UUU  UUU            OOOOOOOO   UUU  UUU
    OOO  OOO   SSS        UUU  UUU            OOO  OOO   UUU  UUU
    OOO  OOO   SSS        UUU  UUU            OOO  OOO   UUU  UUU
    OOO  OOO    SSSSSS    UUU  UUU     AT     OOO  OOO   UUU  UUU
    OOO  OOO    SSSSSS    UUU  UUU            OOO  OOO   UUU  UUU
    OOO  OOO        SSS   UUU  UUU            OOO  OOO   UUU  UUU
    OOO  OOO        SSS   UUU  UUU            OOO  OOO   UUU  UUU
    OOOOOOOO   SSSSSSSS   UUUUUUUU            OOOOOOOO   UUUUUUUU
    OOOOOOOO   SSSSSSSS   UUUUUUUU            OOOOOOOO   UUUUUUUU
    
        (I'm a little excited)
    
    This game is nearly always an exciting battle--no matter how the
    talent is--either at Norman or Stillwater.  Hey, these players
    hate to lose to the other hated school.  
    
    (11:05 P.M. tape replay on Denver channel 7 Saturday.)
    
    I'll take OSU to pull the upset (of course)
    
    Cowboy
    

    Cowboy,
    
    I agree with you on the Big Eight being stronger this year vs. the
    OU/KU final four match-up two years ago.  Sure we had KU, KSU, 
    IOWA ST, MU, and OU (am I missing anybody?) in  And,  if I recall,
    we placed 4 in the final sixteen, 3 in the final eight, and of course 
    2 in the final four.  I think this year, the Tri-state will send
    the big-three - KU, mu, ou (intentional lower-case) and hopefully
    OSU (intentional upper-case).
    
    To me the difference is simply:  Quality vs. Quantity.  The odds
    of a National Championship for the Big Eight are better because
    the teams are better.  FYI - Yes, I believe, Roy and the Boy's would beat
    Manning & the Juniors like a step child 8 out of 10 times they played.
                                 
                                                                          
    
    GO HAWKS!
    
    MGM 

    There are 2 BIG-8 games on the tube tomorrow:
    
    Missouri at Colorado         (2pm Sat. on Denver channel 7)
    Oklahoma State at Oklahoma   (11:05pm Sat. on Denver channel 7, taped)
    
    CU has to be still boiling after letting OSU come back and win by
    a bucket and should be taking it out on UM.  OSU should be feeling
    good after putting it together against CU and thinking that they
    can whip OU who was close to losing their 3rd game in a row.
    
    Cowboy
          

    Missouri 108
    Colorado  89
    
    next missouri game at home feb. 4th, not sure on opponent...

    Bball results:
    
    Oklahoma 109
    Oklahoma State 92
    
    Close game until 2nd half where OU went to half-court man-to-man
    and caused OSU problems.
    
    
    
    Missouri 104
    Colorado 89
    
    Missouri had no problem keeping their lead over the Buffs.
    
    
    Iowa State 91
    Nebraska 83
    
    Cowboy
    

    Missouri 95
    Iowa     93
    
    another close call by the Tigers, but all these close games will
    make them tougher for the final four...!!!!
    
    next game at home feb. 4th against Colorado...stay tuned

    All BIG-8 teams played conference games last night:
    
    #1 Missouri 95
       Iowa State 93  Close call in Ames as the Tigers lead much
    		      of the game.
    
    #2 Kansas 90
       Colorado 69    No problem for KU as CU's BIG-8 road loss
    		      streak climbs to 47 games.
    
    #9 Oklahoma 105
       Nebraska 64    NU never had a chance in Norman.
    
       Oklahoma St 89
       Kansas St 67   OSU's Royce Jeffries scored 10 of his 21 pts
                      during a 5 minute period in 2nd half.
    
    Cowboy
    
    
    

    			BIG-8 Standings
    
    		
    		CONFERENCE		ALL GAMES 
    		W-L	PCT.		W-L	PCT.
    Missouri	6-0	1.000		20-1	.952
    Kansas	4-1	 .800		21-1	.955
    Oklahoma	4-1	 .800		15-2	.882
    Okla. St	3-4	 .429		12-7	.632
    Kansas St	2-3	 .400		12-9	.571
    Iowa St	2-3	 .400		7-10	.412
    Colorado	1-5	 .167		9-10	.474
    Nebraska	0-5	 .000		7-11	.389
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    Saturdays games:
    
    Iowa State at Oklahoma State
    Kansas State at Nebraska
    Oklahoma at Kansas
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    Saturdays games:
    
    Iowa State at Oklahoma State (-8)
    Kansas State at Nebraska (pk)
    Oklahoma at Kansas (-5)
    
    
    The OU/KU game will be shown (tape replay) on Denver channel 7 at
    11:05pm tonight (Sat).  This has to be a good one!
    
    Cowboy
    

    Missouri 93
    Colorado 69
    
    Missouri next game on ESPN thur. I think...
    
    stay tuned

    Bball results:
    
    Saturday:
    
    #2 Kansas 85
    #9 Oklaoma 74
    
    OU's #2 scorer and #1 rebounder William Davis was left home for
    "disciplinary reasons" and probably hurt the Sooners chances to
    beat KU in Lawarence.  There were 55 fouls in this game.
    
    
    Oklahoma State 86
    Iowa State 78
    
    The Cowboys continue to win the games that they should. If they
    could upset Missouri, Oklahoma or Kansas their chances of making
    the NCAA-64 should greatly improve.  Bryon Houston continues to
    be a force scoring 24 points and Royce Jeffries scored 22.
    
    
    Nebraska 74
    Kansas State 71
    
    The Cornhuskers finally won their first conference game plus
    hurt KS's chances of making the NCAA tourny.
    
    
    Sunday:
    
    Missouri 93
    Colorado 69
    
    #1 Missouri has no problem with the Buffs.
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    		BIG-8 Standings
    
    		
    	    CONFERENCE	     ALL GAMES 
    		W-L		 W-L
    	
    Missouri	7-0		21-1
    Kansas	5-1		22-1	
    Oklahoma	4-2		15-3	
    Okla. St	4-4		13-7
    Kansas St	2-4		12-10	
    Iowa St	2-4		 7-11
    Colorado	1-6		 9-11
    Nebraska	1-5		 8-11
    
                

    Wrestling:
    
    Oklahoma State's Randy Couture upset Arizona State's Rex
    Holman at 190 pounds and the #1 ranked Cowboys (15-0)
    survived a controversial call at the buzzer for a 19-13
    victory against #2 Arizona State (15-2-1) with both losses
    to OSU).
    
    OSU NCAA wrestling champs 2 years in a row?  
    
    
    class:
    118	Zeke Zones (ASU) d. Tony Purier 8-7
    126 Kendall Cross (OSU) d. Shawn Charles 4-2
    134 Chris Owens (OSU) d. Andy McNaughton 6-4
    142 Thom Ortiz (ASU) d. Chuck Barbee 3-1
    150 Townsend Sanders (ASU) d. Todd Chesbro 3-1
    167	Dan St. John (ASU) major d. Robby Hadden 13-5
    177 Chris Barnes (OSU) major d. G.T. Taylor 11-2
    190 Randy Couture (OSU) d. Rex Holman 8-7
    Hwt Kirk Mammen (OSU) d. Mike Anderson 5-4
    
    Cowboy
    

    When does Missouri play Oklahoma??

    re:-1
    The Missouri/Oklahoma game *may* be this Saturday.  It might be
    the 11:05 taped replay on Denver channel 7 this Sat. night.  I'll
    try to check the TV guide.
    
    Others this week:
    
    Oklahoma at Iowa State--Wednesday
    Kansas at Oklahoma State--Wednesday
    Missouri at Kansas State--Thursday
    
    
    Cowboy
     

    RE: -.1,-.1
    
    Asked my daughter yesterday(freshman at Missouri) she said that
    Oklahoma was at Missouri Feb 18th and it is scheduled for NBC...
    
    Missouri has Kansas State thurs on ESPN...and the BIG ONE at
    Kansas next Tues. on ESPN.....not sure about Sat.....
    
    

    RE:-1
    
    You're probably right.  I pretty sure that there's a BIG-8
    game on Denver 7 saturday night at 11:05 and thought it was
    Missouri but I'll try to remember to check tonight.
    
    Cowboy
    

    
    			BIG-8 Standings
    
    		
    		CONFERENCE		ALL GAMES 
    		W-L	 PCT.		 W-L	PCT.
    Missouri	7-0	1.000		21-1	.955
    Kansas	5-1	 .833		22-1	.957
    Oklahoma	4-2	 .667		15-3	.833
    Okla. St	4-4	 .500		13-7	.650
    Kansas St	2-4	 .333		12-10	.545
    Iowa St	2-4	 .333		 7-11	.389
    Nebraska	1-5	 .167		 8-11	.421
    Colorado	1-6	 .143		 9-11	.450
                         

    I know it's not football season but I just got a Nebraska recruiting
    update from a DEC employee in Omaha. This Calvin Jones is a very
    highlt touted back...
    
>	Well Marty Calvin Jones of Omaha Central verbally committed to NU
>last week we also got a verbal commitment from one of the top 5 saftys in
>the nation so if they sign it looks like NU could have a pretty good class
>of Freshmen. The saftey was verbally committed to Miami but he backed out
>and committed to the huskers. Supposedly he has already met Prop. 42
>requirements. I dont know if Calvin Jones has or not. I will keep you
>posted. 
    
    Nebraska Marty       Go Mizzou and Kansas in Hoops !!!
    

    
    Marty,
    
    Nebraska also got some hotshot running back from North Carolina,
    perhaps some of our ACC friends can tell us more.
    
    Oh, by the way, at least NU is better than CU in basketball. :-)
    
    Bob V.
    

    Bball results:
    
    Nebraska 91
    Colorado 82
    
    Kansas 83
    Oklahoma State 76
    
    The Cowboys did it again--they started off cold allowing KU a 10 point
    lead before making any baskets.  KU was ahead by 24 several times but
    OSU got to within 6 near the end of the game.  Lots of fouls on both
    teams.
    
    Oklahoma 86
    Iowa State 81
    
    ISU gave all the Sooners could handle.
    
    
    
    Today:
    
    Missouri at Kansas State
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    			BIG-8 Standings
    
    		
    		CONFERENCE		ALL GAMES 
    		W-L	 PCT.		 W-L	PCT.
    Missouri	7-0	1.000		21-1	.955
    Kansas	6-1	 .857		23-1	.958
    Oklahoma	5-2	 .714		16-3	.842
    Okla. St	4-5	 .444		13-8	.619
    Kansas St	2-4	 .333		12-10	.545
    Nebraska	2-5	 .286		 9-11	.450
    Iowa State	2-5	 .286		 7-12	.368
    Colorado	1-7	 .125		 9-12	.429
                                                    

    Football news from Oklahoma and Oklahoma State:
    
    Cale Gundy (younger brother to Mike--OSU's BIG-8 recording setting QB)
    has said to be going to OU.  Cale has broken most of his brother's
    QB records at high school.  It looks like OU is serious about running
    a passing offense since they have signed OSU's Offensive Coordinator,
    Larry Coker, and will have a standout QB--Gundy--to run it.
    
    The reason that OSU was able to land players like Hart Lee Dykes, Mike
    Gundy and Thurman Thomas was because of the more traditional 'I'
    formation that better suited these guys.  (OU didn't really go after
    Barry Sanders since it was thought that he was too small for a RB and
    the Sooners talked of using him as a defensive back.)  With OU
    apparently making these major changes to their offense I expect that
    OSU will have even more difficulty snatching up quality players.
    (Mainly those from Texas that want to go to an Oklahoma school.  Many
    of the in-state HS grads have made up their minds long before they
    graduate).
    
    Cowboy
        

    Some nasty allegations were reported in today's Atlanta
    Journal-Constitution regarding Missouri.   Two former Mizzou players
    (Daniel Lyton & P.J. Mays) told the paper they have been granted
    limited immunity by the NCAA in return for their testimony about
    alleged rules violations by Tigers coaches that include using an
    illegal talent scount, obtaining free meals, and providing
    transportation to summer jobs.
    
    Missouri's case will be heard after the basketball season is over, so
    they'll be spared any possible sanctions this year.
    
    Several other alleged sanctions were mentioned, including:
    
    o Possible connection between an apartment being rented by Nathan
      Buntin's mother
    
    o Illegal payments by asst. coach Rich Daly to players, including
      airline tickets and money in exchange for some minor yard work
    
    o Allegations have been raised that the high school transcript of
      Doug Smith may have been tampered with
    
    o asst. coach Jon Sundvold purchasing meals for the coach of a recruit
    
    o Ben Kelso, coach of Daniel Lyton, has said Missouri offered "more
      than a scholarship" for his player.
    
    
    Since Missouri hasn't been under sanctions before it's possible the
    NCAA may go easy on them.  But Norm Stewart has few friends and many
    enemies among Big Eight coaches, and many are on record as saying if
    the NCAA doesn't sock the Tigers, they're gonna raise a big ole stink.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    OU must be paying better than OSU these days, Cowboy.  Er, at least
    maybe they're offering better fringe benefits.  (Didn't Hart Lee
    Dykes take half the schools in the Southwest down with him before they
    found the real reason why he ended up at State?)
    
    No comments on Tom Osborne's admission that on more than one occasion
    running back Doug DuBose underwent treatment for cocaine dependency,
    yet no action was ever taken against him?  I thought one Nebraska Marty
    assured us that if anything was going on at Nebraska, we could be
    damned sure that Honest Tom knew nothing about it.  I don't know how
    Nebraska keeps managing to stay one step ahead of the law...
    
    glenn
    

    I hate to see another BIG-8 team go down but this crap has got to
    stop.  I wish that the NCAA would allow the schools to pay a small
    amount to athletes to help cover living expenses.  These athletes
    often come from poor families and can't always help out financially.
    And why not pay the athletes?  They are providing the schools
    advertising and the fans entertainment--in exchange for an education
    (of questionable quality and value).
    
    If rich boosters buy the athletes cars then sue these guys or somehow
    make it hurt so they won't want to do it again.  It the schools screw
    up then give them an automatic death penalty and make it hard for the
    guilty party to work again.
    
    Cowboy
    

    Yeah, Glenn Dykes *did* make out financially at OSU but I have to
    think that he wanted to play at a passing school rather than a
    wishbone.  I thought that Keith Jackson made a big mistake for
    playing at OU.  As it turned out Jackson was able to catch KEY
    balls to gain national attention.  Had he dropped a couple of
    those it would have been difficult for him to make it up and
    go as early in the draft as he did, IMO.
    
    Cowboy
    

    IMO, having colleges pay atheletes money is completely unfair to
    the average student.  I'm here forking over $17,000 a year, while
    some basketball or football player gets full tuition paid and then
    gets PAID to go there.  That's BS.  I play a lot of basketball in
    my spare time and I've also played members of the school team. 
    These "super atheletes" quite often LOSE against me, but because
    I put school and my career ahead of sports, I lose out on tuition.
    
    NO, NO WAY IN H*LL SHOULD COLLEGES PAY THEIR ATHELETES.
    
    The Wizard   8^(

    
    Where are you going to school?  The Celtics are looking for a couple of
    "super athletes" right about now.  You can always go back for your
    degree, right?
    
    glenn

    One thing is that athletes are prohibited by the NCAA from holding
    a job during the school year.  You're not.  I don't know much about
    your background, but very often athletes come from very underprivileged
    families.  Finally, athletes in college football and basketball
    bring in millions of dollars to their schools and don't see very
    much of it.  Something is unfair there.
    
    John

    These athletes SHOULD be paid because in reality they are working for
    the schools.  They are entertainers with a chance to make it big in
    the pros.  Most of them chose to make a living in sports rather
    than with a regular job.  The education is just a technicality--they
    have to pass classes.
    
    I think most of us (including me) are envious of them and would feel
    that we deserved living expenses paid, if we were in their positions.
    
    Cowboy
    

    Marc, I've seen both sides of the fence. And I made it through school
    with an engineering scholarship (no way in hell *my* parents could
    afford to send me !), and I was broke more often than not (just
    like now :-).
    
    But I've got to disagree with you. 
    
    S-A's can't get jobs, and according to NCAA rules, they can get
    $50 a month for a stipen, tops. My freshman year, my stipend was
    $166/month. And I never played a minute of sports.
    
    Another thing, these athletes are bringing in MILLIONS to the schools.
    At many of the schools, they are paying for your (generic) lab
    equipment. 
    
    As an example, Akeem Olajuwon generated over $12 million for UH
    in his three years there.
    
    Why shouldn't he get something ?

    Kansas St. 65
    Missouri   58
    
    State did a great job shutting down the inside game and owning
    the boards....stormin normin can't be happy at what he saw last
    night.....they better be ready for TUES. at Kansas cause Kansas
    watch watching last night and will be ready....
    
    Missouri will still be there at final four time though...

>Finally, athletes in college football and basketball
>bring in millions of dollars to their schools and don't see very
>much of it.  Something is unfair there.
    
    So, should ALL athletes be paid or just the football and basketball
    players.  I was on an swimming scholarship to Ohio U and the athletes I
    knew on the non-revenue sports (swimming, golf, track, etc.) were very
    conscientious students.  The basketball and football players were exact
    opposites.  I don't think that it's much different at any other
    Division I school.
    
    We, the non-revenue athletes went to class and got no special
    treatment.  The football and basketball players hardly ever went to
    class yet passed them anyway.  Now we want to pay them?  Yes, there's
    an arguement for payment to student athletes, but we need major reforms
    in athlete academics first.
    
    Mr. moderator, I think we should move this discussion somewhere else. 
    It's going to get lengthy.
    
    	--dan'l

    re:-1
    
    The BIG-8 is tough this year!  That must have been an exciting
    game for the Wildcats in Manhattan.  Missouri was held 32 pts
    below its season average.
    
    
    Saturday's games:
    
    Kansas at Iowa State
    Nebraska at Missouri (Will the Cornhuskers catch Missouri down?--naa)
    Oklahoma State at UNLV
    
    
    Cowboy

    Oklahoma State U signed Mike Gundy as Receiver's Coach.
    
    Gundy was OSU's QB for the last 4 seasons and set several
    BIG-8 records.  His younger brother, graduating from HS this
    year is supposed to be going to OU.
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    re: .132
    
    >So, should ALL athletes be paid or just the football and basketball
    >players.  I was on an swimming scholarship to Ohio U and the athletes I
    >knew on the non-revenue sports (swimming, golf, track, etc.) were very
    >conscientious students.  The basketball and football players were exact
    >opposites.  I don't think that it's much different at any other
    >Division I school.
    
    Pay ALL athletes who are on scholarships *a small amount* for living
    expenses--$150-$200/month tops.  Maybe reinburse other athletes, not
    on scholarships, for expenses that involve their sports activities.
    
    Cowboy
     

    You Big Eight defenders are quick to drag this discussion into a
    "should they be paid or shouldn't they", which implies that maybe
    Mizzou is just a victim of unjust NCAA guidelines.  (I personally feel
    the athletes *SHOULD* be paid, as does Dean, BTW.)
    
    BUT ...  let's not lose sight of the fact that there are other charges
    being brought up against Missouri that have nothing to do with money
    dispursements.  The grade-tampering charge against Doug
    Smith comes to mind.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    First, my appoligies to the readers of this note who aren't going
    to listen to this argument.  If someone sets up another note dedicated
    to this discussion, then I will gladly move on to it.
    
    Second, COL'LEGE n. school of higher learning.  Colleges and
    universities exist because they are to teach the younger generations
    how to deal with the real world.  *Most* atheletes in these higher
    education institutes wouldn't be there, except that they play their
    sport well.
    
    I was unaware of the NCAA ruling that stated that atheletes couldn't
    have a job.  Due to my sudden understanding of this I can understand
    paying them *a small amount* of money that would otherwise be obtained
    by having a job.  However, since colleges and universities exist
    to better mans' knowledge people shouldn't get unfair treatment
    by getting tuition free.  
    
    If you want to set up a seperate "school" for atheletes, then I have 
    no quarrel with paying them, but you go to school to LEARN. 
    
    Like I stated originally, this is just my opinion.  I happen to
    feel very strongly about it, but it is just an opinion.
    
    The Wizard

    
    I agree.  The money paid should not be a negotiated salary, but a 
    reasonable, flat stipend.  If the requirement is to grant this stipend 
    to *all* scholarship athletes, then fairness to all student-athletes 
    is maintained and the proceeds from big-time athletics are at least in 
    some way funneled back to the participants.
    
    Of course the big-time sports programs will still realize a profit from
    these athletes.  *If* the player receives a non-revocable scholarship 
    and reasonable living expenses, I'm not convinced that the system would 
    be exploitative of the athletes, though.  If the colleges agree not to 
    restrict player movement into the true professional ranks (talent
    willing) I would think that the system would be mutually beneficial. 
    Many coaches are already quite honest about this with their top
    athletes.  The appeal of college sports is still less about the 
    attraction of individual stars than the attraction of the alma mater,
    so I disagree that full-scale professionalism of college sports is in
    order.  Placing the athletes on the open market would lessen the appeal 
    of college football and basketball for me (which I prefer over the pro
    games), just as blatant professionalism in the Olympics did.  The NCAA 
    just needs to do away with the current petty, hypocritical definition 
    of an "amateur", though.
    
    glenn

    
    Wizard,
    
    Your points are well taken, but your suggestions are tantamount to
    complete abandonment of college sports as we know them.  Maybe we're
    all hypocrites, but a great number of us enjoy college sports and do
    enjoy seeing them broadcast on the tube.  Your system would eliminate
    an opportunity for thousands of underprivileged kids.  A common
    assumption is that most of these kids wouldn't and shouldn't have been
    in school had they not excelled in a sport in high school.  I disagree.  
    Certainly some shouldn't, but many make great use of the opportunity
    and move on to bigger and better things.
    
    A return to the 1920's, with sports relegated to a local interest only,
    or a down-scaled Division 3 no-TV, no-scholarship type format just 
    wouldn't make many of us happy, I'm afraid.  I don't see where it would
    necessarily be fair to students in general or student-athletes in
    particular, either.
    
    glenn
     
                                                       

    I too am an avid fan of college sports, and partake in watching
    them quite often.  However the discussion was whether athletes should
    be paid (above and beyond the free things they already get), not
    how to separate sports from the universities.  My "suggestion" wasn't
    meant to be taken as completely serious and I don't know if a "fair
    and impartial" method will ever be found (I hope it is), but unless
    the scholastic ability of the atheletes meets the university standards,
    then (sorry if this sounds harsh) they should go to a lesser school.
    
    These people provide a needed entertainment, but until someone like
    myself, who will better the community of the future, gets the same
    tuition paid treatment that they do, then things just aren't fair.
    I'm not saying all this because I didn't get my tuition paid either,
    because for my freshmen year I received a small scholarship for
    running cross country.  I am grateful for the small sum of money
    I received, but my statement still stands, until everyone is treated
    equally I will dispise anyones suggestions of *paying* college 
    atheletes.
    
    The Wizard

Pay all student atheletes a living expense stipend if they qualify for it
financially. Why give a student money if they don't need it ?


Let them leave school at any time to move onto the pro-ranks....

That way if the person is just there as a minor leagues for the pros they
can move on whenever they want to. If they are there to actually make use of the
school and further their education then they stay for the 4 years. 

Metz

    >Second, COL'LEGE n. school of higher learning.  Colleges and
    >universities exist because they are to teach the younger generations
    >how to deal with the real world.  *Most* atheletes in these higher
    
    >by having a job.  However, since colleges and universities exist
    >to better mans' knowledge people shouldn't get unfair treatment
    >by getting tuition free.  
    
    Not now (and probably not ever).  Colleges, that support sports
    programs, exist for both education and athletics.  That's reality
    in the real world now.  Not everyone can go to school and graduate
    with a high-powered degree and then work at a desk job.  It's not
    mentally possible.  I see nothing wrong with someone, with athletic
    ability, going to school to "learn" the finer points of his sport
    and going on to the pros--if he's good enough.  This helps everyone.
    The schools, fans, city, state--and the athlete.
    
    Cowboy
    

    I agree that all the athletes on scholarship should be treated equally.
    If the football players and basketball players are going to be allowed
    stipends, then all the scholarship athletes should.
    
    I also agree that if an athlete doesn't meet a school's academic
    standards, then s/he shouldn't go there.  Unfortunately, the colleges
    are now being asked to do the jobs of our elementary and secondary
    schools.  Too often, students go to college without a sound backing
    in the fundamentals and they shouldn't be allowed to attend college
    without them.  And it just so happens that many of the top athletes
    come from inadequate school systems, especially in basketball, where
    so many of them come from our worst public school systems, from
    the inner cities.
    
    There has also been a radical change in the nature of colleges since
    the NCAA was first formed.  Back in the days of yore, if you weren't
    qualified to go to college out of high school, you didn't go and
    you probably never went.  If you couldn't afford it, you didn't
    go and probably never went.  Since WW2 (the Big One, Sarge), college
    has become more and more open to people - financial aid has improved,
    continuing education and non-traditional programs have flourished,
    and more and more people have taken advantage of the programs. 
    College has become less and less of an elite thing.  While this
    has been good in many ways, colleges and universities have devalued
    themselves with easier programs and a degree has become less valuable.
    There are now many more easier programs - continuing ed is probably
    easier than full time attendance.  It has to be, because they are
    meeting the needs of the non-traditional student juggling family,
    job and so forth.  I went to a night MBA program and it was a lot
    more flexible and probably easier than an equivalent daytime program
    would have been.
    
    These non-traditional programs give colleges and universities great
    opportunities to stash athletes in less demanding programs to keep
    them eligible.  An athlete should be allowed in these programs because
    s/he should not be kept from them just because s/he is an athlete.
    I feel more strongly though that an athlete should get no more breaks
    academically than a normal student.  Athletic department sponsored
    tutoring is OK, special consideration for travel is OK but nothing
    beyond that.
    
    The solution isn't at the college level.  The solution is to improve
    the elementary and secondary educational programs first to make
    sure the kids who go to college have the sound background they need.
    Then, colleges have to tighten up their standards and not accept
    kids until they can handle the work.  Unfortunately if they tighten
    up now, half the college populations will go away.
    
    John

    The requirements to go to a state school in Oklahoma are probably
    the same in most states.  It's easy to get in--not always easy to
    stay in.  That's the way it should be too.  Everyone should have
    an equal shot at college.
    
    A problem is when athletes are expected to study AND participate 
    in sports.  Some are gifted enough (and/or have a good background)
    to take pre-med, engineering, law, etc., and still be a standout
    in sports.  What about the ones that don't have the same mental
    capacity?  They are in school to learn sports and that's where
    their interests are.  They should be allowed to take "sports"
    related classes and have the opportunity to get a degree in sports.
    At least they could get a sports-related job after graduation.
    (as a school coach, sports equipment sales, health spa, etc.)  There
    seems to be alot of talk about what some of these athletes are 
    majoring in--and I agree.  It seems that some schools have dumby
    classes set up for the athletes to take to give the appearance that
    they are going to school.  A real "sports degree" should be offered
    since that's what they are interested in.
    
    Cowboy
    

    
    What does a degree in Physical Education entail?
    
    -Dick
    

    I don't know but during football games sometimes the player's
    major is displayed.  Some of these "majors" sound really phoney
    and that's a waste of time their time. A "real" sports degree
    should *have* to be offered to athletes and of course they would
    have to pass to play then.
    
    If this were the case at all schools participating in sports
    then it would be hard, IMO, to argue against the living expense
    payment to the athletes.  They would be attending school to work
    towards a "real" degree.
    
    Cowboy
     

ah yes...

The famous Undergradute Studies Major...Listed on at least 1/2 of the seniors 
for most any big-time (TM) college game...

Metz

    A Phys Ed major isn't as easy as it sounds.  There is a limit on
    how many "gym" classes one can take towards the degree.  A Phys
    Ed major must take Zoology, Physiology, Anatomy, Physiology of
    Exercise, Kinesiology and other science-oriented courses.
    
    John

    Then maybe that's why there are so many "Undergradute Studies Majors".
    Anyone know what this really is?
    
    Cowboy
    

    Springfiled College, a school not nationally recognized for their
    sports program, is nationally known for their physical education
    department.

    Phys Ed is serious business, especially if you want to get into
    sports medicine. I used to think it was a 'basket weaving' major
    until I met a few people who were serious P.E. majors.
    
    Quite a bit of biology and science ....
    
    DrM

I know I'm going to misspell this word, but they also have to
take a course called Kineseology, which is the study of how
the body moves, with it's muscles and tendons and everything...

Chainsaw

    Kinesiology is the one.  In my undergraduate days, working as a
    student trainer, I took the science courses as electives that a
    PE major would need to take.  I took Zoology and Physiology as a
    sophomore and they were brutal because they were taught in the Zoology
    department.  Think of all those poor PE Majors in science classes
    with pre-med majors and you get the picture.
    
    Anatomy, Physiology of Exercise and Kinesiology were taught within
    the Exercise Science division of the school of Physical Education.
    While a little bit easier, they were still beasts.
    
    John

    All this stuff about these "student-atheletes" learning how to become
    professional atheletes kills me. Less than 2% of college atheletes
    make a substantial living off of their chosen sport. Might be less
    than that. I agree with stipends, but I dont agree with illiterate
    college students. If you caint read, you caint play. Nyah,nyah.
    Doesnt seem unfairr, does it??
    			Raider_Rich
    

    re: Raider_Rich
    
    I don't think anyone implied that student/athletes should be
    able to play if they can't read.  In fact, I was saying that
    the sports-colleges should have to offer "real" classes that
    fall into the athletes interests.  My thoughts were that these
    classes should help them get a job in sports--not basket-weaving
    that won't ever do anything for them.  Jobs like in health clubs
    and sporting shops, etc.  Kind of like a technical degree.
    (We're talking about the athletes a bit short on study habits
    or background. The other athletes would be taking normal classes
    of their choice.)
    
    My point is that the more people that are put into jobs and not
    on welfare or living off of crime the better we all are.  As it
    is now, many/most of the athletes are not going to make a dime
    as a pro, but they should get a shot at it.  As they are giving
    us fans enjoyment they could be *really* attaining a degree that
    will help them out--not sliding through classes and ending up
    with nothing but bad turf knees.
    
    Cowboy
      

    Bball results:
    
    UNLV 100
    Oklahoma State 84
    
    Kansas State 93
    Colorado 65
    
    Missouri 107
    Nebraska 85
    
    Kansas 88
    Iowa State 83
    
    Oklahoma 89
    Seton Hall 84
    
    Cowboy
    

    Bball today:
    
    Iowa State at Colorado (+1^)
    Kansas State at Oklahoma (-17)
    Missouri at Kansas (-6) 	 ESPN 5:30pm
    
    
    			BIG-8 Standings
    
    		
    		CONFERENCE		ALL GAMES 
    		W-L	 PCT.		 W-L	PCT.
    Missouri	8-1	 .889		22-2	.917
    Kansas	7-1	 .875		24-1	.960
    Oklahoma	5-2	 .714		17-3	.850
    Kansas St	4-4	 .500		14-10	.583
    Okla St  	4-5	 .444		13-9 	.591
    Nebraska	2-6	 .250		 9-12	.429
    Iowa State	2-6	 .250		 7-13	.350
    Colorado	1-8	 .111		 9-13	.409
    
    Cowboy

    Bball results:
    
    #2 Missouri 77
    #1  Kansas 71	Missouri beat Kansas for a second
    			time--this time in Kansas.
    
    Colorado 83
    Iowa State 60	CU wins in Boulder before a crowd
    			of 1,402 fans! (seats 11,199)
    
    Cowboy
    

    Oklahoma at Missouri this Sunday scheduled for N.B.C.
    
    stayed tuned...should be a tough game for the Tigers....???

    Is this in Norman?  If so OU might win it in a close one.
    
    Cowboy
    

    
    Ou might win, if Missouri decides to run all night long like OU would
    like. Missouri I think plays better defense and can get more physical
    than OU. Kansas played great last night, except for a small stretch
    when Smith was on the bench for Missouri last night and his replacement
    really did an excellent job on clogging the lane but Missouri still
    won because they were able to physically control the game in the
    paint......
    
    Peeler sure knows how to go after his own misses.....
    
    mike

    what really got me was that Kansas was totally dominating the boards
    which is what you have to do to win games but then they had two
    spells where even though they controlled the boards they went down
    and took bad shots....toward the end Missouri started to rebound
    and made the stats closer I assume but Kansas should not have loss
    with the amount of rebounds(offensive and defensive) they had.
    
    Taking bad shots and not hitting from free throw line kills you
    every time. Always tell my kids:
    
    	" close games are won with rebounds, defense, foul shooting"

           -< Kansas is a great team...final four they'll be there >-
    
    Yeah, they'll be there but so will Missouri and Oklahoma.  OU
    doesn't seem to be complete like the other two but all three
    should put up a good fight.  It looks like Kansas State and
    Oklahoma State still have a shot at getting in and in OSU's
    case I hope they slip in for the experience they'll gain.
    
    Cowboy
    

    If Peeler stays in control, Smith/Buntin control the defensive boards
    and the supporting cast plays within their game...Mizzio will win
    by alot.
    
    
    
    Ruben_who_picked_Tyson_to_win_in_the_first.
    
    
    

    Oklahoma 85
    Kansas State 69
    
    Oklahoma State 103
    Nebraska 84
    
    

    BIG-8 Football Recruits:
    
    OKLAHOMA and NEBRASKA did the best with COLORADO just behind.
    
    OU got Texas' top prospect, LB Aubrey Beavers and Oklahoma's
    top two prospects, QB Cale Gundy and TE Ricky Brady and
    Rangeview All-American RB Earnest Williams plus more good
    recruits from Texas.  Houston-based recruiting analyst Max
    Emfinger said, "It's one of the top recruiting classes ever
    for a team on probation."  
    
    Nebraska lost Dallas Safety C.J. Richardson to Miami after
    he pulled back on his commitment.  NU did get RBs Derek Brown
    and Calvin Jones although Brown was a Prop 48 last year and
    Jones may academic problems.  Also NU got All-American QB
    Todd Gragnano and LB Brian Havens from Calif.
    
    Colorado landed standout wingback Erik Mitchell from Calif.
    
    Missouri got a highly ranked QB from Missouri, Jeff Handy, who
    averaged 345 yards a game passing and Texas RB Ryan Lyons who
    rushed for 2,318 yards.  Also signed Kenneth Dunn, the 4th
    ranked WR, on analysts lists.  On defense UM added 5 juco
    players.
    
    Kansas landed 1 national recruit from Detroit, LB Sylvester
    Wright.
    
    Oklahoma State failed to sign anyone of note.  With their
    probation and their coaching staff leaving, OSU is in for
    bad times.  Ex QB Mike Gundy was recently hired as Receivers
    Coach and tried to win over his brother Cale but lost him,
    and Offensive Coordinator, to OU.
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    BIG-8 Basketball deal:
    
    The BIG-8 just signed a contract with ESPN for next season.
    A BIG-8 game will be aired, along with a SE Conf game, every
    Tuesday night during January and February.
    
    This should help give some due respect to the conference.
    
    Cowboy
    

    
    It sounds like Oklahoma came out with the best recruiting class
    in the Big-8.  Despite winning the conference and playing for the
    national title, the Buffs' class was considered near the bottom
    of the top 20 nationally.  CU just doesn't have the extensive training
    facilities, large stadium with consistent sellouts, or the tradition
    of other national powers.
    
    According to most analysts, some of the best classes were signed by 
    Florida State, Notre Dame, Texas A&M, Southern Cal, Ohio State, &
    Michigan, not necessarily in that order.         
                                                                        
    Here's one vote saying that the Jayhawks won't get any farther than
    the Sweet 16.  Since the Preseason NIT, the only top-notch competition
    they've played is OU and Missouri twice, and Missouri beat them
    both times.  As for the tourney selections, the Big-8 will probably
    get 4 teams, K-State being the fourth.  I don't think the committee
    will take both OSU and KSU, and KSU has the edge with wins over
    OU and Missouri.               
    
    A good game on SportsChannel tonight at 9 MST: New Mexico St. at
    UNLV.
    
    
    Joe

    Kansas U cancelled basketball games aginst Notre Dame during
    1992 and 1993 because of ND's decision to remove their home
    games from the 5-year deal with ABC and ESPN.  ND's decision
    will cost the CFA $50 Million.
    
    Bball tonight:
    
    Colorado at Oklahoma (-23)
    
    Cowboy
    

    
    YES!!!	
    Way to go KU!!
    
    I hope more big-name basketball schools follow suit and drop ND!
    
    
    Joe

                  
    
    

    That's the way I look at it too.  The schools need to do what's
    the best for ALL of them--not "look out for #1".
    
    Cowboy
    

    My hats off to Kansas. Good job!!!
    
    
    Nebraska Marty

    I knew they had it in em.  I too hope the trend continues with other
    colleges folowing suit.  
    
    Remember:  God is a Jayhawk fan.
    
    
    
    Kansas Comet

    >	Remember:  God is a Jayhawk fan.
    
    No way!  He's always rooted for Oklahoma State who are battling
    the evil from Norman.
    
    Cowboy
    

    Joe & Co.,
    
    The Jayhawks "wont get any further than the Sweet 16".  
    
    What is this? 
    
    Aren't you confused, at least historically speaking, with Missouri's 
    inability to advance in the tourney?  In defense of our hawkers, 
    KU's strength this year, which typically has been a weakness in our 
    past (ala L. Brown & T. Owens) is KU's ability to win on the road.  
    We've always had trouble with scrappy KSU, ISU, OSU, even CU & NU on 
    the road, and, the out-of-conference road history has been a no show
    prior to the now Roy (in the bag "coach of the year") era.
    
    phew...dont get me going. 
    
    KU will easily get into the 16 because of a 1, 2, or 3 seed.  And,
    wont see peer caliber competition until it makes its second road trip.
    Yes, they could lose but it is unlikely...Pritchard, Gueldner, and
    Calloway have all been there, and know the goal is to win 6 away games 
    at 3 differnet sites.   
    
    No predictions here but, they will at least get to the Sweet 16 and
    probably the final 8, and. maybe even ah...never mind-I got carried away.
    
    And now something completely different: A Jayhawk fan plugging Missouri.  
                                            oooh...this is difficult.
    
    Missouri is a very good team.  They remind me of the '86 FINAL FOUR
    Jayhawk team of Manning, Kellogg, Thompson, Dreiling, & Hunter.  When 
    the Tigers are ON...like the '86 J-hawks...they are unstopable.  But,
    they also have the ability to beat themselves...mentally, certainly not
    physically (KSU for example).  Peeler (thank you Larry, we could of had 
    him) is a young playmaker with a lot of courage/confidence for a 
    Sophomore.  He is raw talent and will only get better.  Reminds me a
    little bit of a young Isiah Thomas.  Doug Smith, best big guy in the
    Big 8... but he is no Manning.
    
    I'm pulling for them, because I understand this maybe there last NCAA
    appearence for awhile.  They are under a full NCAA investigation.  No
    death sentence, but, probably 1 year out and a few painful recruiting
    years.
    
    OU?  no comment.  
    
    Other than:  Billy Tubbs & Barry Switzer - What's the difference?
    
    See you in Denver.
    
    
    Kansas Comet                                
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    This year is different. Missouri

    Cowboy,
    
    Rightie oh mate.  I agree with you on the evil empire from the Norman.
    
    Maybe we could join forces.  Hon solo, obeewancanobie, and Darth.
    There is a sequel in this somewhere.
            
    
    Kansas Comet

    Yeah Comet, whatever it takes to stamp out evil and corruption.
    It looks like it'll be tough to whip 'em in football for awhile
    but they should go down in the other sports.  
    
    Cowboy
    

    
    What?!  I'll give you baseball in the OU-OSU rivalry, Cowboy, but in 
    what sports is OU going down?  If these recruiting reports are accurate, 
    OU is looking better than I allowed for in my previous gloom-and-doom-
    for-the-90's notes.  Still can't get used to OU throwing the football,
    though.  Can this Gundy kid run the option if necessary, like Steve 
    Davis did?
    
    I'll agree with you on Tubbs; I've liked him even less than Switzer.
    At least Barry wasn't blatantly open about running up the score.  That
    and the fact that Tubbs hasn't yet proven that he can coach in the 
    last few minutes of a crucial game.
    
    God may indeed be on the side of State.  He just hasn't been doing a 
    very good job to date, that's all.
    
    glenn

    MIZZOU 92
    OU     90

   > What?!  I'll give you baseball in the OU-OSU rivalry, Cowboy, but in 
   > what sports is OU going down?  If these recruiting reports are accurate, 
    
    Sorry glenn, I was playing hookie yesterday so have 1000s of notes
    to read this morning. Ahh, another busy day!
    
    I wasn't saying that the *quality* of OU sports is going down.  It's
    the that fact that OU will be going down in defeat to OSU in several
    sports this year. (insert smiley thing here)
    
    	Last I read, the cowboys were undefeated in wrestling (have you
    ever seen an OU/OSU match in Stillwater?  It gets really wild!!).
    In Baseball OSU usually handles the Sooners.  Same in golf (but who
    watches golf anyway.
    
    	In basketball and football, the Sooners are still ahead of course
    but the distance is narrowing quickly in bball.  As for football,
    with the recruits OU got this year--and the ones OSU didn't get--will
    be real lopsided for a few years.
    
    	I'm just glad there are more sports than football.
    
    
    OSU football:
    
    Jeff Bower, after 2 years as Offensive Coordinator at S. Miss,
    will take the same position at OSU.
    
    
    Bball results:
    
    Missouri 92
    Oklahoma 90
    
    Iowa State 84
    Loyola, Chicago 79
    
    Kansas 94
    Nebraska 67
    
    Kansas State 93
    Iowa State 90
    
    Oklahoma State 71 (Women)
    Arkansas State 68 (Women too)
    
    
    Game today:
    
    Oklahoma State at Kansas State (-4)  Will the winner go to the NCAA?
    
    
    Cowboy

    glenn, on Cale Gundy:
    
    I doubt he will be running the wishbone in normal OU style.  I
    can see him used as an option QB like his brother Mike was at
    OSU.  He broke Mike's high school passing records plus he has
    more size and is a better runner.  (Mike had very quick feet
    and was an excellent scrambler but was not a good straight
    ahead runner). Cale is probably too big to be a Holiway but
    with his arm and *good* legs has a chance to be very dangerous,
    complete QB.
    
    Wish he hadn't gotten away.
    
    Cowboy
    

    Bball results:
    
    Kansas State 66
    Oklahoma State 60
    
    Today's games:
    
    Kansas at Colorado (+12)
    Iowa State at Missouri (-14)
    Oklahoma at Nebraska (+12)
    
    Cowboy
    

    Kansas signed Bob Williams as Wide Receivers coach.
    
    Colorado and Tennessee were picked to play the Disneyland
    Pigskin Classic August 26 at Anaheim Stadium.  Kickoff
    is at 2:00pm MDT on a Sunday and shown on TV by Raycom.
    Both teams receive $550,000. (I believe that this game
    is in addition to their regular schedule -- not going
    to replace a game.)
    
    Cowboy
    

    Results:
    
    Kansas 103
    Colorado 71
    
    Missouri 89
    Iowa State 85
    
    Oklahoma 88
    Nebraska 66
    
    
    Saturday Games:
    
    Kansas State at Kansas
    Nebraska at Iowa State
    
    
    			BIG-8 Standings
    
    		
    		CONFERENCE		ALL GAMES 
    		W-L	 PCT.		 W-L	PCT.
    Missouri   11-1	 .917		25-2	.926
    Kansas	9-2	 .818		26-2	.929
    Oklahoma	8-3	 .727		20-4	.833
    Kansas St	6-5	 .545		16-11	.593
    Okla St  	5-6	 .455		14-10	.583
    Nebraska	2-9	 .182		 9-15	.375
    Iowa State	2-9	 .182		 8-16	.333
    Colorado	2-10	 .167		10-15	.400
    
    Cowboy

    sunday:
    
    Missouri at Oklahoma

    Sooner fans,
    
    Congrats on the Mizzou win.  You caught Peeler & associates in 
    "brick-mode".  And yes, Tubbs looked liked Mugsie the gangster 
    in that double-breasted, horns toothed, cheesy lapel suit in front
    of national television.  Where's Elliot Ness when you need em?
    
    Of course "There's no place like home"
    
    See on tuesday.  I guess we'll both have to stomach Vital Dick.
    Did I get that backwards?  I dont think so.
    
                                   
    Kansas Comet
                                   

    Bball results:
    
    Kansas 70
    Kansas State 58
    
    Iowa State 101
    Nebraska 85
    
    Oklahoma 107
    Missouri 90
    
    Oklahoma State 81
    Colorado 74
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    The Sooners' at-home-win-streak continued to #44--second best in
    the nation--when they beat #1 Missouri.  Tuesday, soon-to-be #1,
    Kansas will fall prey (in my humble opinion) to the Sooners in
    Norman.
    
    Colorado's on-the-road-LOSS-streak-against-BIG8-teams continued
    against Oklahoma State (Loss #51).  It was a good, close game with
    both teams scoring good and having a rebound battle.  The difference
    was CU trying to keep up with the quick Cowboys and committed too
    many fouls.  OSU had 2 key players hurt--and they don't have much depth.
    Cowboy's Byron Houston scored 31 points.
    
    This Saturday, after the Sooners beat the second #1 team within
    a week will travel to Stillwater to play the Cowboys.  Of course
    the Sooner will fall to defeat to a improved (health-wise) OSU team.
    Look for this game to be a very emotional game as most of the "Bedlam
    Series" match ups are.  Denver channel 7 will cover the tape replay
    at 11:05 pm Saturday.
    
    Cowboy
     

    
    Have to agree with the previous reply that the Sooners will beat
    KU tonight, and I think it'll be real convincing.  OU should have
    some fun tonight.
    
    If OSU does beat OU this Saturday, that should be the win that gets
    the Cowboys into the tourney.  They probably kept their hopes of
    an NCAA bid alive by hanging on against CU Sunday.

    Tonights game:
    
    Kansas at Oklahoma (-5^)   ESPN 5:30 Mountain time
    
    
    ****************************
     5 BIG-8 teams in the top 5
    ****************************
    
    >   			    AP POLL  (2-26-90)
    >
    >
    > RANK (1st Place votes)	RECORD	POINTS	PREVIOUS
    
    >  1 KANSAS (41)    	 27-2	1,570  	 2
    >  2 UNLV (14)               24-4	1,492  	 4
    >  3 MISSOURI (5)            25-3	1,448	 1
    >  4 Connecticut (1)         24-4	1,293	 6
    >  5 Duke (1)                23-5	1,288	 3
    >  tie OKLAHOMA    	         21-4 	1,288	10
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    			BIG-8 Standings
    
    		
    		CONFERENCE		ALL GAMES 
    		W-L	 PCT.		 W-L	PCT.
    Missouri   11-2	 .854		25-3	.893
    Kansas     10-2	 .833		27-2	.931
    Oklahoma	9-3	 .750		21-4	.840
    Okla St  	6-6	 .500		15-10	.600
    Kansas St	6-6	 .500		16-12 	.571
    Iowa St 	3-9	 .250		 9-16	.360
    Nebraska  	2-10	 .167		 9-16	.360
    Colorado	2-11	 .154		10-16	.385
                                                    

    Cowboy,
    
    Now just a minute.  You want to talk emotional games?  What about
    tonight in Normam?  Vital will be his usual nut self and will be
    championing the Final 4 rematch from two years ago...not to mention 
    the OU loss in Lawrence (revenge factor).  And, in my opinion, if that
    were not enough hype, KU WILL WIN because they tie for the Big 8
    championship (at least on paper) with MU if they win tonight!
    
    Additional fun facts:
    
    - Roy and the boys are rested, OU is tired from Sunday.
    - OU cant possibly duplicate its scoring from the MU game 
      (only one place to go from up...)
    - Roy is a coach.  Billy is a den mother.
    - Away games motivate KU...not intimidate (like MU was)
    - KU's big men are bigger/taller & will control the paint.
    
    This is all wishful thinking of course, but on paper the hawks
    have this one.  
    
    Kansas comet
    

    comet,
    I wish we had cable and could watch this one!  It's hard to compare
    the Sooner team that lost to Kansas (in Kansas) 70-58(?) earlier.
    OU is playing good ball and with their win streak at home (44) they
    deserve the 5^ point spread.  Please don't call me a Sooner fan but
    they do have the advantage going in.
    
    Atleast both will go to the NCAA and play for the big one.
    
    Cowboy
    

    Re: .193           Ditto to McNiel.
    
    K.U. will surprise the Cowboy with a solid defeat over the Sooners
    in similar fashion to the fast-paced K.U.- O.U. NCAA championship.
    O.U. will want revenge, but out-of-control emotion from Tubbs and
    his cronies are no match for Jayhawk discipline, composure, and
    quality coaching.
     
    Billy Tubbs' method of running a basketball team is to recruit the
    best possible athletes and then let them run out of control so as to
    confuse the enemy.  His recruiting ability is quite good, but he seems
    to measure coaching ability by how many technical fouls he receives.
    
    Of course, you know if those of us who publicly agree with .193 are
    wrong, the bits of revenge will flow across the network like salt in
    an open wound.  Where are the Sooner fans?  They are probably busy
    installing home security systems in fear of criminal activity by the
    Sooner football squad (are they out of jail yet?) during the off-season.  
    Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Go KU.
      
    JHawk
                              
    
    
    

    re:-last few Jawhawker crazies
    
    Like Tubbs style or not you can't forget OU's ability to win at home.
    KU has a good consistant team but OU's style can blow a team out
    of the game in a hurry.
    

    We have the "Beasts of the East" in Georgetown.  Hmm, what is OU, the
    "Misfits of the Midwest"?  Here is a Tiger fan rooting for the Hawks to
    run up the score on bad Billy and his bunch of spitting gunners, even
    if it does mean the Hawks and Tigers tie for league leadership.
    
    How can you like a team that has free rein to shoot once they cross
    half court.  Sunday they had the good fortune of hitting >50% of their
    bombs, and 38% of their inside shots.  Also, the Peeler that killed KU
    was no where to be seen.  OU is on a roll, and are tough to beat in the
    Noble house of Norman.  Hopefully the streak will end tonight, and the
    real cream of the Big 8 will reside at the top.  Go HAWKS (that's
    really hard for a Mizzou fan to say)!

    CBS is already planning on broadcasting the 3 games between the
    pre-season powers: Oklahoma, Nebraska and Colorado next fall.
    
    It wasn't mentioned if the OU games were to be tape-delayed.  Don't
    the Sooners have a couple more years of TV-less football?
    
    Cowboy
    

    
    
    You're confusing your Cowboys with my Sooners, Cowboy. ;-) I'm pretty 
    sure that OU is back on TV this year, and next year back in the Orange 
    Bowl.  OSU is back on TV in 1991, and eligible for the post-season in 
    1992.
    
    Why are all these anti-Sooners coming out of the woodwork all of a 
    sudden?  Where's the conference pride, guys?
    
    glenn
    

    
    Awesome!  How can you *not* like that style of play?  What was it, 
    27 Jayhawk turnovers?
    
    glenn
    

    Missouri will move back to #1 after they beat Kansas St. tonight...
    
    reason is UNLV loss to USCB, and Kansas loss to OU....
    
    stay tuned....

    
    It looks like KU was intimidated, not motivated.  The Jayhawks were
    never really in it, although they did cut it from a 22 point deficit
    to 10 just before half.  KU also trailed by 26 at one point in the
    second half, but managed to cut it to 12 or 14 a couple of times.
    Good thing the Sooners were tired and emotionally drained from Sunday's
    win over Mizzou, or it might have been worse.
    
    Big game tonight with CU at NU for 7th place!  If the Buffs win
    tonight, they can finish out of the cellar if NU loses their last
    game, which is against who, Cowboy?
    
    
    Joe

    re .200 & .201
    
    Don't know where my head was with the anti-Sooner stuff, although I am
    not a Tubbs fan.  I have had some good experiences in Norman watching
    my Tigers win in hoops and get Dupreed in football.  Congrats to the 
    Sooners on the thrashing of KU.  If all goes as expected the rest of the 
    week, we could have the Sooners at #1, MU #2, KU #3.  Go Georgetown 
    tonight against UConn.
    
    It will be a strong statement to the strength of the league to have a
    ranking like that from a "football" conference.
    
    Speaking of football, any chance for Missouri to return to some
    previous glory years and at least crack into the top 4 in the
    conference.  I'll always assume that OU and NU will take 2 of the
    spots, but who will the other 2 be next year?

    oops!
    
    Last night I kind of felt like Butch & Sundance being relentlessly
    pursued by the Sherriffs posse and saying - "Who are those guys?" 
    
    Brief notes sabatical here, til tourney time.  I hope we're not 
    out of gas.  Congrats Sooners...you were as good as it gets.  Hope you
    can take it on the road.
    
    My beak is temporarily out of joint,  
    
    
    Kansas Comet
                            
    

    re .203
    
    	Why the CU Buffs of course!  ;^)
    
    Clay

    I don't know what Missouri's chances are next year, but I do know
    that Bob Stull is known for turning around football teams in a hurry.
    Bob took a declining UMass team that had gone 3-8 and got it to
    7-4 his second year.  When he left to go UTEP, the next year's team
    went 8-3.  At UTEP, he took one of the worst Division 1 teams in
    the USA and got it to a bowl in his 3rd year before leaving for
    Missouri.  I have no idea what the Tigers were like in football
    last year but if his previous history is any indication, they'll
    be OK.
    
    The only problem is that he was Don James' Offensive Coordinator
    for many years at the University of Washington, and it is rumored
    that he'll be James' hand-picked successor when it's time for James
    to retire.
    
    John

    > It will be a strong statement to the strength of the league to have a
    > ranking like that from a "football" conference.
    
    I pulling for OU to make it to #1 (a one week reign would be enough).
    Three teams in one conference ranked as #1 in a season!  Anyone know
    how many times this has been done by a conference?  The BIG-8 really
    shouldn't be considered a "football" conference when all the NCAA
    championships are considered.  After the leaders, UCLA and USC,
    Oklahoma State and then(?) Oklahoma follow as the schools with the
    most NCAA winners in all sports.
    
    > Speaking of football, any chance for Missouri to return to some
    > previous glory years and at least crack into the top 4 in the
    > conference.  I'll always assume that OU and NU will take 2 of the
    > spots, but who will the other 2 be next year?

    Here's my prediction:
    
    	Oklahoma
    	Nebraska
    	Colorado
        Iowa State
    	Missouri
    	Oklahoma State, Kansas and Kansas State (battle for the cellar)
    
    Hey glenn, are you sure that OU is off TV probation already?
    	time flies.......
    
    OSU hired Keith Armstrong as tight ends coach.
    
    I think CU has OU at CU, NU at OU and CU at NU.  Unfortunately, OSU
    will be lucky to stay out of last place next year.
    
    
    > Big game tonight with CU at NU for 7th place!  If the Buffs win
    > tonight, they can finish out of the cellar if NU loses their last
    > game, which is against who, Cowboy?
    
    CU has something to fight for--the losing streak of theirs--51 BIG-8
    consecutive road losses.  Not to mention winning the cellar spot again.
     
    
    			BIG-8 Standings
    
    		
    		CONFERENCE		ALL GAMES 
    		W-L	 PCT.		 W-L	PCT.
    Missouri   11-2	 .854		25-3	.893
    Kansas     10-3	 .769		27-3	.900
    Oklahoma   10-3	 .769		22-4	.854
    Okla St  	6-6	 .500		15-10	.600
    Kansas St	6-6	 .500		16-12 	.571
    Iowa St 	3-9	 .250		 9-16	.360
    Nebraska  	2-10	 .167		 9-16	.360
    Colorado	2-11	 .154		10-16	.385
    
    Cowboy
    

    OK.....so the Sooners beat us (Jayhawks) by millions of points and
    dominated the game very decisively.  Ya but, Glenn, I bet my dad can
    beat-up your dad with both arms tied behind his back.  So there.
    
    Jhawk (with a salted wound)
    

    Buck Up Jhawk.  There's still revenge at the tourney.
    
    Cowboy
    

    Game results:
    
    Nebraska 96
    Colorado 82
    
    Missouri 65
    Kansas State 60
    
    Today:
    
    Oklahoma State at Iowa State (-3)   7:30 on ESPN (Mountain Time)
    
    
    CU's head basketball coach was fired Monday but it wasn't announced
    until after their 52nd consecutive BIG-8 on-the-road loss last
    night. CU's last win was against Kansas back in Feb 10, 1983.
    
    Missouri clinched the BIG-8 title with their win over Kansas State
    last night.
    
    OU is being called the #1 team in the nation by a Denver Post writer.
    Of course I'm hoping for the Cowboys to upset them in Stillwater this
    Saturday but would also love to see OU make it to #1.
    
    Cowboy
    

    Here is interesting possibility given the recent NCAA events:
    
    #5 O.U. defeated both #1 Missouri and #1 Kansas.  #7 Georgetown defeated
    #4 Connecticut.  #2 UNLV got upset by some obscure team from
    California.  #5-tied Duke got beat by Clemson.
    
    Here's my prediction:
    
       #1 Oklahoma
       #2 Missouri
       #3 Kansas
       #4 Georgetown
       #5 ???????
    
    Go Big-8!
    
    

    re:-1
    I'd like to see it!
    
    Cowboy
    

    Question to Cowboy:
    
    How far up in the ranking could O.S.U. go if they beat Oklahoma?
    What would that do for their NCAA tournament bracketing?
    

    Re: .211
    
    Seems to me that you should swap #1 and #2 since Mizzou has also
    beaten Oklahoma and beat Kansas twice.
    
    -- FooBear

    Game results:
    
    Iowa State 83
    Oklahoma State 72
    
    
    >    How far up in the ranking could O.S.U. go if they beat Oklahoma?
    >    What would that do for their NCAA tournament bracketing?
 
    Don't know but after OSU's game last night and the way OU's playing
    right now I expect the Sooners to blow out the Cowboys on Saturday.
    
    
    Cowboy           
    

    Missouri got trounced by Notre Dame.  How?  Why?   
    
    I don't understand such an outcome, but Missouri just blew an excellent
    seating in the NCAA tourney and probably will get knocked down below
    the AP top 5.  Besides that, Missouri's lost blew my prediction for
    the upcoming NCAA rankings with OU, KU, and MU in the top 3.  I'm glad
    I didn't bet anything.
    
    Norm, what happened?  That is not a good way to begin March madness.
    
    JHawk

    Bball results:
    
    Kansas 96
    Iowa State 63
    
    Kansas State 80
    Nebraska 57
    
    Missouri 98		Missouri coach Norm Stewart said, "We just weren't
    Notre Dame 67	very good today, and I'd have a tough time explain-
    			ing that, so I won't."
    
    Oklahoma 107       	After only a 3 point lead at the half OU came back
    Oklahoma State 94   out with one of their patented runs of 27-4 and
    			looked to have started a blow out.  (OSU had led
    			much of the 1st half.)  OSU got fired up and staged
    			a comeback which got them to within 4 points with
    			3 minutes remaining but couldn't pull out the
    			upset.  This was another game typical of the the
    			"Bedlam Series" meetings of  OU and OSU.  I think
    			OU had atleast 2 and OSU 1 player foul out in this
    			emotional game.
    
    It looks like the BIG-8 will have 4 teams in the NCAA: Kansas, Kansas
    State, Missouri and Oklahoma.
    
    Cowboy
    

    		The BIG-8 Tournament at Kemper Arena, Kansas City, MO
    
    Friday:       Saturday:    Sunday:
    
    KS 11:10am---
                 \________
                 /        \
    OSU----------          \
                    12.10pm ----------\
    UM 1:20pm ---          /           \
                 \________/             \
                 /                       \
    CU-----------                         \  
                                    2:20pm ----------  BIG-8 Champion
    OU 5:10pm ---                         /
                 \________               /
                 /        \             /
    NU-----------          \           /
                     2:20pm ----------/
    KU 7:30pm ---          /
                 \________/
                 /
    ISU----------
    
    

    
    Well, Missouri went out and TOTALLY embarrassed the Big-8 by losing
    to lowly Notre Dame.  What's even worse is the Irish are sure to
    get a bid to the tourney.  It would have been great to see ND get
    left out and playing in the "other tournament."
    
    Members of the selection committee could help get back at ND for
    breaking away from the CFA by not giving the Irish a bid, but it
    looks like they have to give them an invite now.  If ND didn't get
    into the tourney, it would have cost them about $250,000 per round.
    At least KU got back at ND, even if Mizzou didn't.  Thanks for nothing,
    Tigers.
    
    It's too bad that the best matchup of the Big-8 tourney is the first
    one in the middle of the day, when none of us working stiffs can
    see it. 
    
    
    Joe
    

	Looking at their point output(67) leads me to believe that the kids
just couldn't get up for this one. With NCAA's and conference play comming
up and the last game of a l..o..o..n...n..g..g season can you blame them???

	I'm not taking anything away from the Irish cause they came to play
and did a great job, but I have to feel that Mizzou along with other top
team are getting worn out. The college season is too long and the conference
play only serves to put money in the cash registers. Why play all season and
win your conference and then have a dam playoff to decide the winner??? Sorta
doesn't make much sense except to enhance some college administrator career
when he/she says I brought in x amount of dollars when I was blah blah blah...

	It's time the people that administer these things started thinking about
the dam kids....as it stand now athletes in college are nothing more than a
product that are used to bring in money with no reguard for the athlete at all.
Many are just getting burned out....

	Bobby Knight was right....

    My BIG-8 Tournament picks:
    
    1st ROUND:         SEMI-FINALS:       FINALS:
    
    OSU over KS
                       UM over OSU
    UM over CU
                                          OU over UM
    OU over NU
                       OU over KU
    KU over ISU
    
    
    Cowboy
    

  <<< Note 27.222 by CNTROL::CHILDS "Watch out MSG, here I come GO FRIARS" >>>
                   -< UNDER-Rated Conference that's all  ;^) >-
                      ^^^^^
    
    Hoping this helps
    

    Much as I *detest* Notre Dame, I can't help imagine them getting a
    chuckle out of having a team on probation getting holier-than-thou on
    them.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re .216 and .219
    
    Yes, Mizzou did probably blow a #1 seed and the opportunity to knock ND
    out of the tournament.  #$%^&*!!  They played poorly and deserved to
    lose.  No excuses.
    
    My hope is that they have gotten their usual post-Big 8 tournament
    disappointment out of their system now.  Believe me, I have suffered
    through many long months of March thanks to schools like Lamar, Xavier,
    Iowa, and others I care to forget.  I still look for the Big 8 to get a
    minimum of 4 teams in the NCAA's, and maybe a fifth if OSU does well in
    Kansas City.
    
    Of the big 3, OU, KU, MU, I would expect to see all of them reach the
    final 16, but unfortunately I doubt this year will be a repeat of 1988. 
    KU and MU seem to have peaked, OU is playing well but has not won too
    many close games, especially if the score is kept under 90 or even 100.
    
    Hope I'm wrong.  GO YOU TIGERS!!!
    
    John

    
    I've read rumors that OU's quarterback recruit, Cale Gundy, is an
    excellent baseball prospect and is considering turning pro this summer,
    after the amateur draft.  Cowboy, you heard anything about this?
    
    glenn
    

    OKLAHOMA STATE TAKES THE BIG-8 TOURNAMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!1
    
    McGill scored 16 points to lead OSU to a 72-65 win over
    Kansas State, giving OSU their first BIG-8 Tournament 
    title and an automatic NCAA Tournament birth.
    
    Way to go Oklahoma State!!!!
    
    Cowboy
    
    
    PS That was the CowGIRLS winning the title.   0 8^D

    Baseball America Rankings 3-5-90
    
     1. Wichita State    8-0
     2. Florida State	14-2
     3. Stanford	16-5
     4. Georgia Tech	12-1
     5. OKLAHOMA STATE	 8-0
     6. Miami, Fl	15-2
     7. Southern Cal	12-7
     8. Illinois	 7-5
     9. Texas		16-7
    10. Arizona St	16-8
    11. Creigton	10-0
    12. Arkansas	 8-2
    13. L. Beach St	15-6
    14. UCLA		14-6
    15. Loy. Marmt	11-6
    16. Miss. St	 5-4
    17. Georgia		10-4
    18. Clemson		 6-1
    19. S. Jose St.	13-1
    20. Fresno St	 9-7
    

    glenn, 
    
    I haven't hear anything about Cale Gundy yet, other than he's
    supposed to be in Norman next year.  Also, I didn't know Cale
    knew baseball.  I hope he does play football *somewhere* after
    all the hype about him.
    
    Living in a vacuum
    
    Cowboy
    

    		All-BIG-8 team:
    
      1st TEAM:
    Doug Smith		Missouri, jr, 6-10, 215
    Keven Prtichard 	Kansas,	sr, 6-3, 180
    Anthony Peeler	Missouri, so, 6-4, 188
    Byron Houston	Okla St, so,6-7, 225
    Shaun Vandiver	Colorado, jr, 6-10, 220
    
      2nd TEAM:
    Skeeter Henry	Oklahoma, sr, 6-7, 180
    Steve Henson	Kansas St, sr, 6-1, 180
    Mark Randall	Kansas, jr, 6-9, 230
    Nathan Buntin	Missouri, sr, 6-9, 215
    Victor Alexander	Iowa St, jr, 6-9, 265
    
      HONORABLE MENTION:
    William Davis, OU		Clifford Scales, NU
    Stevie Wise, CU		Jean Derouillere, KSU
    Rick Calloway, KU		Lee Coward, MU
    Jackie Jones, OU		Damon Patterson, OU
    Rich King, NU		Doug Collins, ISU
    Terry Woods, ISU		Jeff Gueldner, KU
    Royce Jeffries, OSU		Smokey McCovery, OU
    Terry Evans, OU
    	

    
    Might as well put in a tourney pick, since this note has been somewhat
    quiet lately:
    
    1ST Round           Semi's            Final
    
    KSU over OSU
                      KSU over UM
    UM over CU
                                       OU over KSU
    OU over NU
                      OU over ISU
    ISU over KU
    
    I realize there's some big upsets in there, but you never know.
    It's tournament time!!
    
    
    Joe
                                                  
    

    1st ROUND:
    
    Colorado vs. Missouri (-18)
    Oklahoma St vs. Kansas St (-4^)
    Nebraska vs. Oklahoma (-21)
    Iowa St vs. Kansas (-12)
    
    Cowboy
    

    If someone hears a final on the KSU-OSU game, please pass it on.
    That game should be ending a little after 1:00.

	Second half score, KSU 53, OSU 50

    Is there a radio station carrying the games?
    
    Cowboy
    

    The only game I'm aware of on the radio is the CU-Missouri game
    this afternoon on KYBG, AM 1090 out of Denver.  This station doesn't
    come in very good down here in Colorado Springs, but you can pick
    it up in the daytime.
    
    
    Joe

    If you go to the Dublin House, they will probably be showing the games.

    Finals Clemson 79-70 Wake Forest
           Uconn 76-58 Seton Hall
           Okie St 82-78 Kansas St.    <---------------------- YES!!!
           Texas 92-84 Tex A & M
           Mia,Ohio 108-80 Toledo
           Miss 84-80 Tenn  30 seconds left
    Half time N.C. 35-34 Virginia
              Georgetown and Providence tied at 33
    
    Cowboy
    
    

	Final: Oklahoma State 82, Kansas State 78

    A score just in:
    
    Oklahoma State 82
    Kansas State 78
    
    Cowboy
    

    This loss will seriously hurt the Wildcats' chances at an NCAA bid,
    while keeping OSU's slim chances alive.  Nevertheless, OSU or KSU
    has to get a bid based on the strength of the Big-8.
    Tune in Sunday afternoon.
    
    Joe

Missouri was losing by a dozen early in their game with Colorado...

   
    The Cowboys will go against Missouri next (unless Colorado upsets MU).
    Although I picked Misouri to beat OSU in the 2nd round you still can't
    count out the Cowboys.  They are playing with more confidence and
    Missouri may be "coasting" some until the NCAA.
    
    GO Cowboys
    

	Final score:
	Central Michigan 82, Kent State 65

	Second half scores:
	Colorado 49, Missouri 37
	Louisiana State 47, Auburn 37
	Houston 70, Rice 62

	First half scores:
	UCLA 39, Oregon 25
	New Mexico State 15, Fresno State 15	

    > 	Second half scores:
    > 	Colorado 49, Missouri 37
    
    Maybe CU will help OSU get to the NCAA!?
    
    Cowboy
    

    CU and MU have just went to OT.  The Buffs blew a 9-point lead with
    a little more than a minute to go.

		Colorado 92, Missouri 88 OT final

	SEC:	Auburn 78, LSU 76  final

    
    Rats! Boy was I hoping CU would beat OU for the BIG-8 "title". That
    would have served the NCAA selection committee right for giving
    automatic bids to the winners of these stupid end of season crap shoots
    and call them the conference champs. That epitomizes why these end of
    season tournaments are a joke. CU is not a good team. They got
    lucky/hot for two games and almost were given the conference title.
    
    For those who missed it, Oklahoma St. showed their sportsmanship on
    Saturday. With 3 seconds left in the game, and CU the obvious winner,
    an OSU player threw an elbow to the face of a CU player. Then this same
    idiot went over to the CU bench and punched another CU player. Then
    there was a big pile up. To OSU's coaches credit he was tossing his
    players all over the place. He was not pleased with their very poor
    sportsmanship.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    I'm pretty sure that the comference itself is allowed to determine
    which champion goes to the NCAA tourney, the regular season or the
    tournement Champ. And even if the Tourney champ has to go, more
    conferences could be like the Big 10 and not have an "end of the season
    crap shoot". But, of course, that won't happen because the crap shoot
    brings in lots of $$$ to the conferences.
    
    There are a lot of things you can slam the NCAA for, but i don't think
    thaty this is one of them.
    
    Dennis
    

    I don't remember all the scores from the BIG-8 tournament:
    
    1ST Round           Semi's            Final
    
    OSU over KSU
                      CU over OSU/82-72
    CU over UM
                                       OU over CU/92-80
    OU over NU
                      OU over KU/95-77
    KU over ISU/118-75
    
    
    OSU Bball:  John Potter (guard/forward) was suspended for an
    undetermined amount of time for fighting in Colorado game.
    
    Cowboy
    

    Wrestling:
    
    Oklahoma State won their 4th consecutive BIG-8 title
    
    	Scoring:
    Oklahoma State	83.25
    Nebraska		70.5
    Oklahoma		67.5
    Iowa State		57.75
    Missouri		18.5
    
    Cowboy         

    
    Three cheers for OSU's b-ball coach for suspending Potter. I don't know
    who he is, big guy, but he was obviously PO'd coach after the cheap
    shot elbow and sucker punch at the end of the CU game. He litterally
    threw two players across the floor with one hand as he pulled them off
    a pile.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    Baseball scores:
    
    Iowa State 3
    Washington State 2
    
    Rice 2-3
    Kansas 1-8
    
    Texas A&M 2
    Iowa State 0
    
    Cowboy
    

    Some observations on the tourney brackets:
    
    -What in the world is ND doing in the tournament?!?  I guess it
     is quite obvious that the committee wants a marginal team in there
     that's a good draw instead of a team that really deserves it, e.g.
     Southern Illinois, Long Beach St., or DePaul(who beat ND twice).
     Oh, what a coincidence, the ND-UVa game is on ESPN Friday night!!
     They know everybody will tune in to that one, because everyone
     loves to see ND lose.
    
    -The Big West Conference got shafted by the committee, by either
     letting UCSB or Long Beach St. in, depending on the outcome of
     Big West championship game.  The worst part is that the committee
     admitted they were "punishing" the Big West for playing its
     championship game so late on the day of the selections.
    
    -It's apparent that the death of Gathers seriously hurt the seeding of
     LMU, because they only got a #11 seed, when they probably would
     have gotten a 5 or 6 seed had he not died.
    
    -Georgia Tech only got a 4 seed after winning the ACC tournament,
     and Alabama only got a 7 seed after winning the SEC tournament,
     and got shipped out to the West. 
    
    -Arizona a #2 seed?  I don't understand this one.
    
    
    Joe

    The selection committee usually picks an independent or two to go
    to the tourney.  While DePaul beat ND twice, they didnt' do much
    (at least in the games  I saw them) - and ND did have a few big
    victories.  For weeks they figured it would come down to DePaul
    and ND getting one independent spot.  I kind of think ND's win over
    Syracuse really helped seal it.
    
    And while they may not be deserving, neither are a lot of the bigger
    schools that made it.  Oh yeah, I forgot, it's all due to the ND
    conspiracy, right?  ND isn't the only 'marginal' team in there that's
    a bettter draw than some of the second or third echelon teams. 
    Is it fair, no, but ND is hardly the root of the problem, the all
    glorious NCAA and CBS is.
    
    JD

    Joe,
    
    I agree.  Arizona #2 seed?  Who are those guys?....and weren't they
    ranked #15 prior to the NCAA's?
    
    Hey, anybody know anything about New Mexico St?  
    
    I hear they are a serious Dark horse and could possibly upset 
    Michigan and then Arizona?  I this reality or is somebody 
    smokin there socks??
    
    Kansas Comet

    
    	re: New Mexico St.
    
    	They have to get past an unequalled emotionally determined LMU
    first.

    re: New Mexico State:
    
    They are for real. I must admit to a certain amount of prejudice, being
    as how my college diploma starts with the words "The Regents of the New
    Mexico State University..."
    
    But... I have also been a bigtime college basketball fan for
    twenty-five years, and can say with all honesty that I have never seen
    a quicker team than this year's Aggies. I have seen better, and faster,
    and stronger, but not quicker.
    
    The Ags are quite capable of scoring 125 points in any game. If there
    were an over/under line for the Aggie/LMU game it would have to be in
    the low four figures. 8*)
    
    Their best player is Ron Brown, a transfer from Houston. Most of the
    Ags are from the Chicago area. 
    
    Coach Neal McCarthy is an old NCAA hand, having taken Weber State
    there several times. His players adore him because he is a teacher as
    well as a coach. His philosophy is "Play -- HARD."
    
    This year they split with UTEP and swept the traditional two-game
    series with New Mexico, winning in the Pit by four points. They beat
    UNLV for the first time ever in a real thriller on Jan. 8 in Las
    Cruces. 
    
    They play the style of ball that so distresses Eastern basketball
    aficionados; along with LMU, Oklahoma, and UNLV; run, run, run with a
    very sticky pressing defense. (I believe the Ags did, in one game, hold
    the ball for seven seconds.) In fact, the teams that give them the 
    toughest games are those who can run with them.
    
    The Ags were among the top ten teams in number of turnovers forced,
    averaging over 22 turnovers forced per game. 
    
    In fact, I believe one of the best games in the first round will be the
    LMU-Aggie game. Don't try to keep score; you'll set the paper on fire.
    Just sit back and enjoy some bigtime basketball.
    
    
    
    ..mike the Aggie

    Unfair advantage McNiel.  You didn't say that you would be polling the
    notes file for information about the NCAA before you entered your NCAA
    tourney picks.  
    
    New Mexico State sounds like a potential surprise team for the tourney
    and I noticed that you picked them to make the final 16.  If you win
    the contest because New Mexico State goes far, I think you should buy
    everyone in the WIO office a piece of pie.
    
    Whoever is listening out there.  I want to know more New Mexico State
    and which teams they have defeated, etc.  Are they capable of Final
    Four competition?
    
    JHawk            

     
    RE: New Mexico State (from USA Today)
    
    Strengths: Defense; its solid matchup zone and team quickness combine
    to force 22 turnovers a game from opponents.  William Benjamin has
    been strong off bench.
    
    Weakness: Aggies attack by letting their guards penetrate and pass.
    When that's cut off, or they're faced with a packed-in zone, their
    outside shooting can let them down.  
    
    The Aggies are the first team to win or share the Big West title
    since UNLV joined in '82-'83.
    
    I saw them play twice.  The first was against New Mexico in December,
    and I don't remember much from that one.  The other time was against
    UNLV in Vegas, and the Rebels blew them out, mainly to the fantastic
    night shooting the Rebels had; UNLV was 10 for 13 in the first half
    on 3-pointers in that game.
    
    
    Joe

    
    NCAA Women--1st round:
    
    Michigan 77
    Oklahoma State 68	Cowgirls were leading 33-31 at the half in their
    			1st NCAA Tournament appearance.
    
    
    NCAA line:
    
    Oklahoma (-27) vs. Towson State
    Kansas (21^) vs. Robert Morris
    Missouri (-13) vs. N. Iowa
    Xavier, Ohio (-2) vs. Kansas State
    
    
    NIT game today:
    
    Tulsa at Oklahoma State (-7)
    
    Cowboy
    

    Score just in - Northern Iowa 74   Missouri 71.  Peeler with one basket
    (in the last minutes to boot) and Doug Smith fouled out with 9 minutes
    to go.
    
    A sad end to a season that looked sooooo... promising a month ago after
    the sweep of the Jayhawks.  To finish the season with the blowout at
    Notre Dame, the loss to Colorado, and now this!  Can I change the title
    on my diploma?
    
    Go rest of the Big 8.  Learn from a disappointed Tiger to never count
    on them in the postseason.  Add N. Iowa to the list of powers like
    Xavier, Lamar and others who have brought solid Mizzou teams to the
    ground.
    
    A disappointed Tiger now pulling for the Jayhawks.
    John

    If this were the New York Times I wouldn't say anything, but since it's
    SPORTS, what the hey.
    
    Someone mentioned a week or 2 ago about drug rumors swirling around
    Anthony Peeler.  Am I the only one who's a bit suspicious when a kid of
    his immense talents only scores *ONE* basket in an NCAA Tournament
    game??  (Please spare me the z-inducing "Nothing has been proven" stuff. 
    We've heard enough of that over in the Hank note and this is obviously
    sheer conjecture.  I must say though this kind of performance adds to
    the credibility of the rumors.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    Chris,
    
    That's one of the things about today's sports scene - I also wonder
    now if a player's 'off' day or 'off' year is caused by chemicals,
    and not fate.  I hope it is just an off day for him.
    
    On the same line - I wondered why, IMO, Roy Marble's play seemed
    to slip last year.  I thought he was super as a soph, but didn't
    feel he developed, and even slipped a bit.  When I read earlier
    this year that he had been suspended by the NBA, I wondered if the
    problem existed lasted year also.... sigh.
    JD

    re -1
    
    I know what you mena JD.
    
    A fews years back, UH was in teh Final Four against North Carolina.
    Their big gun was All-American Rob Williams. (Akeem was a freshman,
    and was showing the signs of greatness, but was unpolished.)
           
    Rob had been pick the MVP of the Regionals the week before.
    
    Well, he went 0-8 for 2 pts against NC, and the Coogs lost by 6.  
    
    He was drafted by th NUggest in the 1st round, bombed out, and hasn't
    done anything since, due to drugs.
    
    It turns out now, that Rob was snorting coke and partying, and didn't
    get to his room (in New Orleans) until 4AM the same day of teh NC
    game .....

    Big 8 fans,
    
    In leiu of what happened over the weekend...
    I think I speak for everyone in this notes conference when I say -
    
    "Go Ball State!!!" 
    
    
    Kansas Comet
    
    

    
    Awesome showing from such a power-house conference.  
    
    These guys make the big 10 look good!
    
    /Jeff

    (approximately) "The ACC is the most overhyped conference in country."
    
    - Billy Tubbs
    
    
    Well Bill, how's it feel to get bounced from the tourney for the 2nd
    year in a row by an ACC team?
    
    Never prouder to be,
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    BTW - how many teams from the Big 8 are left in the tourney?  ;-)
    
    NAZZ

    The BIG-8 looked tough--until BIG-8 Tournament time.  That's
    when the "power houses" slacked off and the upsets began.
    Missouri started their slide just before the tourney against
    Notre Dame.
    
    Oh well, anyone know when the NCAA wrestling meet is?  Maybe
    this coming weekend?
    
    Oklahoma State is still alive in the NIT and visiting New
    Mexico (-5) Tuesday.
    
    Cowboy
    

    Oh yeah, how could I forget!!!!!
    
    BUSTY HEART--"America's BIGGEST Sports fan"   (That's how she's billed)
    
    		live show
    
    	at PT's & BOOGIE DOWN
    
    Thursday, Friday, Saturday
    
    
    [80 MMM 26-32]    atleast that's what the paper said.  The
    		      picture does make her look like she's
    		      way past the training bra stage.
    
    BUSTY HOTLINE-934-9370  for more information
    

Shows you how much the polls mean ...

Once Kansas got on top in December, the only way they could relinquish No. 1
was to lose.  Their only losses would come to conference foes.   Therefore, 
the conference foe that would beat them would take over No. 1.

So, first Mizzou and then Oklahoma would take turns sharing the top spot with
Kansas.

Come tournament time and this so-called "Big Three" wasn't ready for the 
leaner, hungrier teams with records chewed up by tougher conference play.

And now they're gone ...

Bob Hunt

    The top 64 teams seem to all be capable of beating each other.  When
    you consider the close games and upsets early in the tourney the
    strengths must be fairly close.  If a team is to make it to the
    Final Four they must play each game like it is for the championship
    and not let down.  I expect that, atleast in OU's case, they may
    have been trying to take it easy--expecting to win against the
    lower rated teams.  
    
    I guess my point is that even though the one that wins the championship
    deserves all the credit and glory but on the other hand if that team
    would play an unranked team a week later they might loss.  It's all in
    how well a team can keep playing at a level above everyone else (and
    above their own level?) and not lose their momentum.
    
    Congrats to the winners...Cowboy
    

	I have no special feelings pro or con for Snuffy Smiff and the boys,
and I also never lost anything in Oklahoma, so I just watched the game for fun,
and really didn't care much who won.

	1) North Carolina looked a LOT better than the games I had seen about
mid season.

	2) Both teams had some awkward moments... but

	3) I've been watching a lot of hoop, and at that particular time, I
don't think there was another team in the country who could have beat either NC 
OR OU.

	4) I  have to give Snuffy credit. A couple of times he had one or
another of his kids do something relatively stupid. They'd pan the camera over
towards him, and  Smiff would just be kind of nodding and giving a thumbs up to
the kid, like ` No problem, kid, pull it together and go gettem'. At first it
surprised me, because if one of my ten year olds did something so stupid, I'd
be in his face (and these guys are in COLLEGE), but he's right, and I do the
same thing myself: by the time you get to the playoffs, they either know what
they're doing or they don't, so you might as well just offer encouragement when
needed and relax, because it's really too late to be trying to teach them
anything.

Mike JN

    So, the Big 8 is a joke?  Gimme a break!  It's all a matter of
    who's hot when the NCAA tourney starts.
    
    If the tourney were held at the beginning of the season, Kansas
    probably would have won it......they knocked off the #1 and #2
    ranked teams in the country.  I didn't hear anybody calling the
    #1 and #2 teams' conferences a *joke* then.  It's not fair to
    call the Big 8 a joke now..........GO LMU, BALL ST., AND XAVIER!
    
    Claybone

    The win over Oklahoma had to be one of the sweetest for Dean in a long
    time, mainly because he had a chance to play a role he's not used to: 
    UNDERDOG.  Heck, the line on the game was 8.5 points.  The line on the
    California vs. UConn game, IN HARTFORD, was only 7!  They were giving
    California a better chance than UNC.
    
    Anyway I think your analysis is right Monty.  At this point in the
    season there's no pointing getting too upset about anything a player
    does anymore than to complain about the poker hand you've just been
    dealt.  Ya gotta play the cards you got and you ain't gettin' any new
    ones.
    
    Dean was funny in the post-game interview, uncharacteristically so.  He
    was practically giddy.  Kinda joy-drunk if you will.  I was dying when
    he disclosed that at half-time he got down on his knees and begged 'em
    to do one thing -- WIN.  That answer wasn't exactly what I woulda
    expected from Deano!
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    

    
    Tubbs only has himself to blame.  I expressed my reservations about his
    coaching come tournament time in an earlier note, and he's come through
    again.  My question: why does OU get away from their all-out press, 
    run-and-gun style in the NCAA's?  This is not to take anything
    away from UNC, because their strategy was a big part of reason that OU 
    never got untracked.  I'll admit I'm not a sophisticated basketball
    fan, but this was not the same team, playing with the same intensity,
    that I saw blow Kansas off the court twice in the last three weeks.
    If Tubbs likes the frenetic style, I wish he'd follow through with it 
    all the way to the end.  Shades of OU-Kansas in the 1988 Finals...
    
    I must admit, though, that both teams played well throughout.
    Great games this weekend, but many of them showed one team struggling
    over large periods of the game.  Not this one.  UNC-OU were trading 
    baskets and 3-pointers right and left down the stretch, which made 
    for an extremely tense and exciting game from my vantage point.
    
    glenn

    OU found themselves in a real Catch-22 in this game.  It was pretty
    obvious in the 1st half that they had 2 ways to stop Carolina.  One was
    there 1-3-1 trap, which was working effectively and causing trouble for
    the Heels.  The other was their zone defense, which held UNC without a
    field goal for a long stretch.  Trouble is, when OU plays zone it runs
    counter to the style of play they're trying to generate, (i.e. run and
    gun, uptempo.)  so even though it worked effectively Tubbs hardly used
    it at all in the 2nd half.  The fact that OU was almost always behind
    in the game (but only by a little) may have caused Billy to be
    reluctant to use the zone.  This was probably a mistake on his part. 
    
    The other defense that was working in the 1st half was solved by UNC in
    the 2nd by going into a 4-corners set.  King Rice played the middle of
    the floor and consistently split the OU defense to create 2 on 1
    scenarios.  This was particularly apparent late in the game, when we
    scored on 5 of our last 6 possessions, many coming against the 1-3-1.
    Bottom line is they played right into our hands with the man-to-man and
    1-3-1.  Better strategy would've been to stick with the zone until we
    made a few outside shots.  Carolina is not a very good outside shooting
    team.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    Tubbs didn't make too many friends during his stay in Austin.  After
    the first round game he complained about the organization of the event
    (apparently the box score for the game was late), and the attendance
    (he claimed the Erwin Center was only half full for the start of the
    game and people were still filing in at half time which meant no big
    game atmosphere for most of the game).  Before the UNC game he blasted
    the media for picking on one of his players.

ACChris,

	Who the hell you callin` Monty?!?!?!?

Mike JN *;'D

    
>    Anyway I think your analysis is right Monty.  

    Thank's ACC!!!!    
    
The_Real_Monty

    > The_Real_Monty
    
    Not to be confused with The_Real_Hoot!  :-)
    

    The Big-8's performance (or lack of it) in the tourney shows that
    this conference is not quite on the same level as the Big-10, ACC,
    or the Big East in basketball.  IMO KU would have finished in the
    middle of the Big East.  Granted, they beat UNLV, St. John's, and
    LSU in the preseason NIT, but if KU would have played UNLV 1 or
    even 2 months ago, the Rebels would have won easily.  I'm not trying
    to downgrade the conference because I am a Big-8 fan, but I just
    think that the Big-10 and Big East are superior leagues from top
    to bottom.  If it wasn't for the big 3 (KU, MU, OU) the Big-8 never
    would have even been mentioned as one of the top conferences this year,
    and KSU probably wouldn't have made the tournament.
                                   
    The Big-8: Still a football conference, but getting better in
    basketball over the last few years, without a doubt.
    
    
    Joe
    

    I'm *SO* embarassed Mikey!  And to think, you were the foreman who got
    me aquitted!
    
    Embarassingly yours,
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    
    Re. .280:
    
    Tubbs should keep his mouth shut when it comes to bragging about how
    many points his team will score, etc., but I thought he was justified
    in defending Skeeter Henry from the media attacks.  The media has 
    gotten a lot of mileage out of this stereotypical image of the 
    Sooners as a bunch of dumb JUCO recruits undeserving of college
    scholarship, and Henry, because of his on-the-court antics, has taken 
    the brunt of it this year.  I don't condone all of Henry's actions,
    but like with Dennis Rodman, I don't think his brand of enthusiasm
    should be removed from the game, either.  By his teammates' account, 
    Henry is a good guy to have around, excitability notwithstanding. 
    
    Skeeter did not impress versus North Carolina, though...
    
    glenn
    

    >  Where's Cowboy?
    
    >  You out there gaucho?  Remember when you chided me as being uptight
    >  cuz I "knew" that the Final Four was gonna be a_all Big8 affair?
    
    >  Haaa.
    
    I'm sitting right here!!!
    
    It's been difficult to monitor SPORTS today.  Someone told me to
    do some work or something!!  Enjoy it while you can, T because
    there are other sports going on now.  How 'bout wrestling and
    baseball?  HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
    
    See ya at the NCAA wrestling tournament?  no???
    How 'bout the College World Series then?  
    
    Couldn't help myself
    
    Cowboy
    
    

    Fellow Jayhawks and Big 8 fans,
    
    Admittedly so...
    
    KANSAS played at the same level of performance from game 1 to 
    game 30 this season.  And basically, everybody caught up with them
    (even some teams in the Big 8).  It's easy to be a rabid fan for 
    a team that was picked last in the league preseason and unranked
    nationally.  Let's face it, they played a back to the basic fun brand
    of ball!  You also had to be pulling for Minnesota, UCONN, and others
    that shook up there respective conferences as well.
    
    LOST THE BATTLE. WON THE WAR! 
    
    The Jayhawks successful season is a tribute to skilled coaching and
    extra effort from non-blue chip talent.  Sure, we LOST THE BATTLE... 
    a defeat in the tourney.  But, we WON THE WAR...The Kansas program is
    clean again!  And with Roy at the helm, it'll probably stay that way.
    Coach of the Year.  And, a class act.  
    
    
    As Roy would say "Dadgumit we lost".  I wonder what Billy would say?   
    
    
    Kansas Comet
    

    re .290
    
    Billy would say, "I don't sound like Jack Nicholson...he sounds like
    me!"  ;^)
    
    Claybone

    
    Football: CU moved their Sept. 8 game against Stanford to Sep. 6
              so it can be televised by ESPN.
    
    Basketball: Gary Colson is no longer in the running for CU's head
                coach in basketball, because he took the head coaching
                job at Fresno State.  The Buffs are also interested
                in Hawaii head coach Riley Wallace.  Other coaches on
                CU's potential list are Nolan Richardson (Arkansas)
                and Joe Harrington from Long Beach State.
    
    
    Joe

    The last BIG-8 team bit the dust.  Oklahoma State lost to
    New Mexico in the NIT in the final seconds. (2nd round)
    
    New Mexico 90
    Oklahoma State 88
    
    
    On to Wrestling Finals and Baseball
    
    Cowboy
    

    National Wrestling Coaches Association Poll (3-20-90)
    
    				QUAL	PTS
     1. OKLAHOMA STATE (11)   	10	315
     2. Arizona State (5)	 9	309
     3. Iowa			 8	287
     4. NEBRASKA		 9	267
     5. Indiana			 8	244
     6. OKLAHOMA		 9	239
     7. IOWA STATE		 9	206
     8. Minnesota		 5	198
     9. Cal St.-Bakersfield	 8	197
    10. Northwestern 		 5	182
    11. Penn State		10	132
    12. Northern Iowa		 7 	121
    13. West Virginia		 8	119
    14.	North Carolina 		 6	101
    15. Navy			 6	 83
    16. Bloomsburg, Pa.		 6	 73
    17. Ohio State		 6	 71
    18. Wisconsin		 4	 42
    19. Michigan		 4 	 34
    20. Clarion 		 6	 31
    
    others:
    Oregon	25 (5)
    Maryland	23 (7)
    N. Car St	22 (8)
    Army	16 (3)
    Illinois	 7 (1)
    Lehigh	 7 (2)
    Lock Haven	 4 (5)
    Notre Dame	 3 (5)
    Clemson	 2 (6)
    
    
    Cowboy
    
    

Ah, these guys obviously don't know what they're talking about.

I didn't see Hulk Hogan U. or Ultimate WArrior School of Wrasslin'
anywhere in that list....

8^)
8^)

'Saw

    Story in the Denver Post has Purdue's Gene Keady coming out to take
    over Colorado's basketball program.

    The NCAA Wrestling Tournament has started.  Anyone have the
    team scoring after the 1ST Round?
    
    Cowboy (SFA)
    

    doesn't matter, ASU will walk away with it again!

    But Oklahoma State has a shot at 2 Championships in a row.  I scanned
    the paper this morning and it looked like OSU won all of their 1st
    round matches but lost 1 in the preliminaries.  The BIG-8 as a group
    could have a good showing--unless they contract the same disease that
    their bball teams went down with.
    
    
    BIG-8 rankings going in:
     	(from memory--[my wife says that my memory is as short
    	as some parts of my anatomy--not sure what she's getting at]).
    
    #1 Oklahoma State
    #4 Nebraska
    #6 Oklahoma
    #7 Iowa State
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    Oklahoma State captured their 29th NCAA Wrestling Championship
    and their 2nd title in two years.  They had 2 individual 
    Champions.
    
    The BIG-8 takes 4 of the top 9 spots and 5 of the top 27.
    
    Final Team Scoring:
    
     1 OKLAHOMA STATE	117.75  ****
     2 Arizona State	104.75
     3 Iowa		102.75
     4 Northwestern	 66.75
     5 NEBRASKA		 64.25  ****
     6 Penn State	 57.50
     7 OKLAHOMA		 48.25  ****
     8 Indiana		 45.50
     9 IOWA STATE	 43.50  ****
    10 Minnesota	 42.25
    11 Northern Iowa	 40.50
    12 Cal St.-Bakersfld 30.50
    13 Navy		 29.
    14 Ohio State	 27.
    15 Clarion		 26.25
    16 North Carolina	 23.50
    17 Lehigh		 21.50
    18 West Virginia	 17.50
    19 Illinois		 15.
    20 Cornell		 14.
    21 (tie)
       Bloomsburg	 13.
       Stanford		 13.
       Wisconsin	 13.
    24 Cal St.-Fullerton 12.50
    25 New Mexico	 11.75
    26 William & Mary	 11.50
    27 MISSOURI		 11.     ****
    28 Syracuse		  9.50
    29 Clemson		  9.
    30 (tie)
       Morgan State	  8.50
       Oregon		  8.50
    
    
    Cowboy

    According to today's Denver Post Oklahoma is canning their
    Women's Basketball program due to lack of support.
    
    
    
    
    You'd think that unsupported women running up and down the
    basketball court would draw crowds.
    
    Cowboy
    

    
    It was announced on the radio this morning that Joe Harrington has
    been hired as CU's new head basketball coach.  Good timing, with
    all the media in town for the Final Four.  Harrington was reportedly
    about to be hired on with the great University of Miami, otherwise
    known as college football's "Team of the 80's, storming into the
    90's!!"

    This was a real shocker and bad news for Oklahoma State:
    
    OSU Basketball coach Leonard Hamilton was hired by Miami, Fla.
    The reason he took the job was because of the great potential
    number of recruits in the area (not to mention the $$ ?)  He
    had done a great job recruiting players for OSU in the 4 years
    at OSU.
    
    Also, Kansas State hired Marshall bball coach.
    
    Cowboy
    

    
    		OU Threatened with a Lawsuit
    
    (AP) OKLAHOMA CITY--Saying he had "a slamm-dunk case" against the
    University of Oklahoma, a Washington, D.C.-based attorney demanded
    yesterday that the school reinstate its women's basketball program
    or face a federal lawsuit.
    
    	Arthur Bryant of Trial Lawyers for Public Justice, a public
    interest law firm, said last week's decision by school officials to
    eliminate the women's basketball program was in violation of the U.S.
    Constitution and federal law.
    
    	This decision is blatantly illegal," he said.  "This is a slam-dunk
    case.  It is a winner."
    
    	Bryant was the lead attorney in a successful sex discrimination
    lawsuit against Temple University that was settled in 1988.  he said he
    had been retained to represent members of the Oklahoma team.
    
    	He said he notified attorneys for the university that he would file
    the lawsuit today if officials did not rescind the action eliminating
    the women's program.
    
    	Bryant said the action violated the Title IX provision of federal
    law requiring equal opportunities for women in college athletics.
    
    	His comments came at a news conference attended by players,
    Oklahoma City attorney James Browne and Tim Stoner of the Women's
    Basketball Association.
    
    	Stoner said his organization would support Bryant's group in any
    action to reinstate the women's program at Oklahoma.
    
    	Officials at the university had not commented on the threatened
    lawsuit by late afternoon.
    
    	Bryant said he had been notified that Oklahoma officials would
    have a response this morning, either in a news conference or with a
    statement.  A spokesman for the university said late yesterday she
    could not confirm that.
    
    	Bryant said it is important that the matter be resolved quickly
    because Monday is the last day the Oklahoma players can accept
    scholarships at other schools.
    
    ------------------------------------
    Cowboy
    

OU is expected to announce the reinstatement of the women's basketball
program today. 

TTom

    > 	Bryant said the action violated the Title IX provision of federal
    > law requiring equal opportunities for women in college athletics.
    
    
    What's Title IX say?  And what is considered "equal opportunities"?
    
    Schools don't offer baseball for women but probably offer softball.  Is
    this considered "equal enough"?
    
    I've never heard of women's hockey teams in college (but we don't have
    hockey in the schools I've been around).  Where's the "equal opp" here?
    
    Same goes for football.  Do schools offer some phoney touch football
    league for the women?  (That could be a great co-ed sport).
    
    I don't see any *real* "equal opportunity" as sports is organized now.
    Any who takes the BLAM(tm) for this?  (I felt that should be added for
    the RCASOites(tm pending)).
    
    
    Cowboy

    I've heard of womens college hockey, but the newest one around
    here is womens lacrosse. Just imagine at po'd lady with a lacrosse
    stick in her hand!!8^
    				Rich
    

    Does that mean that they also support a *men's* lacrosse team
    or does the women's lacrosse team exist to fill the female
    spot (no pen intended) created by men's football?
    
    All this "equal opportunity" is real unclear to me. EO should be
    upheld but what are the guidelines that the schools have to go by?
    
    Cowboy

    I think footballl is exempt from the EEO guidelines because of its
    cost, size and the fact that no women (or so I've been told) play
    tackle football in college.  Except for football though everything
    else has to be equal.  And the schools are supposed to offer equal
    accomodations, equal travel and so forth, so if the men's basketball
    team flies to go on a road trip to Podunk U then the women's basketball
    team must also fly - they can't be sent by van or bus.  The women's
    basketball team must receive equity in hotel accomodations, meal
    money, support services (tutors, trainers, etc), equipment and so
    forth.
        
    For a sport like ice hockey, the school must also field a women's
    ice hockey team or the equivalent, ie, field hockey.  Men's lacrosse,
    women's lacrosse.  Men's soccer, women's soccer.  And so forth.
    I don't know how they handle sports like wrestling (or if was still
    an intercollegiate sport) boxing.  Now that I think about it, I
    don't know how OU expected to get away with eliminating women's
    hoops.  And as a side note, sports such as swimming, track and
    gymnastics are very often run as coed teams on the college level.
    High school too.
    
    John
    

    > I think footballl is exempt from the EEO guidelines because of its
    > cost, size and the fact that no women (or so I've been told) play
    > tackle football in college.
    
    My dad used to practice medicine in Tulsa and had the opportunity
    to be the team coach for a womens football team.  This was a short
    lived, semi-pro group.  He said that some of these gals were huge.
    I know I wouldn't want to tangle with'm.
    
    

    > and the fact that no women (or so I've been told) play
    > tackle football in college.
    
    Yuh-huh!  Bernie Kosar played QB at Miami.
    
    	--dan'l

    re:-1
    But he got his "start" playing on the women's lacrosse team in drag.

    OU, to avoid legal action, reinstated their Women's
    basketball program.  The budget is set at $300,000
    for the 13 to 15 players which is 1/4 the total
    women's athletic budget.
    
    Unfortunately, the reason for cutting the program
    will still exist.  No fan support.
    
    Cowboy

    Eddie Sutton has been hired to take over head basketball coaching
    at Oklahoma State replacing Leonard Hamilton.
    
    Anyone know his background and why he was pressured to quit at
    Kentucky?  Is this guy likely to cause problems at OSU?
    
    Perspiring mimes what to, no?
    
    Cowboy

    > Anyone know his background and why he was pressured to quit at
    > Kentucky?
    
    Cause he's a low-down, shifty, unscrupulous, snake-bellied scoundrel,
    that's why.  His bald-faced lies on CBS when James Brown interviewed
    him (right before he got canned) saying he was innocent (hah!) rank 
    right up there with my all-time  "Make me wanna BARF" moments.  This
    guy is your worst used-car-salesman nightmare.  
    
    The fact that OSU could hire him given the stuff that went
    on at Kentucky is reason #1 why college athletics has the problems it
    does.
    
    Anything, repeat, ANYTHING, for some W's.
    
    (BTW - If you want a list of improprities that went on at Kentucky
     I'll be glad to provide some of 'em.  It's a long list though.  :^( )
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Was Hamilton his (Sutton) assistant?  Hamilton, imo, is a real
    quality person/coach.  If Sutton is as bad as you say then
    I caint imagine where the OSU athletic dept's brains are.
    
    As to winning at all costs, I love to win.  But its obviously
    not everything.  In all true, it would be ideal if every school
    took their turn at winning and so make competition even and more
    exciting.  Fat chance, eh?
    
    Cowboy
    

I'm certainly not defending Eddie Sutton but he had none of these
problems at Arkansas (at least that I know about). At Kentucky, however,
he rewrote the book on violations yet some how was allowed to escape
essentially without punishment. The schools went on probation and he's
free to move to the next assignment.

Of course, his big connection to OSU is that he played there.

As to why they would consider him, consider this: in Kentucky there was a
ground swell of support for Sutton to run for US Senate. You figure it
out.

TTom

    I don't know why the NCAA doesn't require that all people that
    are involved be found either guilty or not-guilty.  Too many
    coaches ride off in the sunset with a cloud over their haids.
    The fans deserve to know their involvement as do the universities.
    
    Rich boosters need to be exposed too, when they spoil programs
    behind the schools' backs.
    
    Cowboy_striving_for_live_liberty_and_the_pursuit_of_busty_heart

    > had none of these problems at Arkansas (at least that I know about)
    					      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    There's the key TTom.  Just cause he didn't get caught before doesn't
    mean he wasn't committing some crimes.  Take a look at some of the top
    flight talent he lured to the Hogs, then take a look at Sutton's
    criminal mug, and it's not hard to come up with some purty interesting
    recruiting scenarios.
    
    Anyway even if we stretch our imagination and imagine Sutton being
    lilly-clean at Arkansas his activities at Kaintuck are still
    inexcusable.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re .317
    
    Sutton was never really examined at Arkansas, but when Nolan Richardson
    took over, there was very littlew talent that was left there, and
    what was there was using drugs. He had to clean up a drug scandel
    at UA, and then restock the shelves so to speak ...              
    
    I believe that Eddie Sutton got out of Arkansas in the nick of time.

    Isn't Sutton an OSU alum?
    
    NAZZ

    re: -1
    
    yes
    

    Kansas State hired Jim Kerwin for assistant bball coach.
    
    
    Apparently OSU hasn't hired Sutton yet but will:
    
    From the Denver Post:
    
    	The university president will recommend to its regents
    a new basketball coach--reportedly Eddit Sutton--at a
    special meeting tomorrow.
    	University president John Campbell confirmed yesterday
    that he met with Sutton Saturday and said a four-year
    contract was being worked out.  But he stopped short of
    saying Sutton would be his sole recommendation.
    
    
    Cowboy

    
    Miami likes those OSU coaches!!

    OSU officially hired Eddie Sutton yesterday.
    
    Sutton: "I always had a dream I might someday come back
    	to my alma mater....I've always thought of Oklahoma
    	as my home."  [That's understandable]
    
    The board of regents met for 90 minutes and voted 7-1
    to hire Sutton as the school's 16th bball coach.  The
    only dissenter said he had no problem with Sutton but
    felt the search process was not as thorough as it could
    have been.  Sutton had been the front-runner for the
    job.
    
    Sutton played for the Cowboys in the late 1950s.  He's
    54 and has a career record of 430-164 in 20 years of
    college coaching at Creighton, Arkansas and Kentucky.
    
    Cowboy
    

    
    Should there be a contest as to when Okla. St. will get the death
    penalty? With their football improprieties coupled with Sutton taking
    over the b-ball program, they will be hard pressed to not get the death
    penalty.

    OSU's football program should be in good hands with Pat Jones
    as head coach.  That is, if boosters with $$$ can be kept
    from doing things behind the school's back.
    
    With Sutton's past problems (but not proven guilty, right?)
    I was shocked to hear that they even considered him.  I
    hope that he was just guilty of being in the wrong place
    at the wrong time.  The BIG-8 basketball competition is
    starting to get as tough as football so if he's the type
    to buy talent then it should show up right away.
    
    Cowboy
    

    
    Cowboy,
    I was really surprised that a school that has had problems, probation
    for the football team, would hire a b-ball coach that has been just
    barely dodging the bullet for quite some time. Wasn't Sutton the guy
    who supposedly sent the bag of money that popped open at the wrong
    time?

    I don't remember who it was HOOT.  I, too, can't believe that
    OSU's basketball program needs to take any chances in regards
    to NCAA problems.  Like the paper said, none of the regents
    nor the school pres had any problem with hiring Sutton which
    tells me that Sutton, by himself, shouldn't create problems
    at OSU.
    
    > Sutton played for the Cowboys in the late 1950s.  He's
    > 54 and has a career record of 430-164 in 20 years of
    > college coaching at Creighton, Arkansas and Kentucky.
    
    His w/l record *is* impressive, tho'.  Could be that that
    is what the regents really looked at, but surely they're
    smarter than that(?)
    
    Cowboy              

Sutton himself was slippery enough to have an assistant coach do the
actual sending. In fact, of all the harm to any one 2 guys got the
biggest shaft. A black player, Manuel (I think) who's permanently banned
from NCAA level 1 competition, and the assistant coach, also black.

Perhaps we need a little ABC scooping in this area.

TTom

    How bout if coachs' contracts had a clause stating that if the
    school ends up violating NCAA rules during the coach's reign,
    and the violations could have been avoided by the coach, then
    the coach owed the school the pay he received during the
    rules violation period.
    
    Cowboy
    

    
    3 Buffs have been named to the Playboy preseason All-American team.
    They are linebacker Alfred Williams, punter Tom Rouen, and offensive
    tackle Mark VanderPoel.  The issue comes out in August.
    
    Big Eight scoring and rebounding leader Shaun Vandiver has announced
    that he will not enter the NBA draft, but will stay at CU for his senior
    season.  Vandiver had previously said that if head coach Tom Miller
    was fired he would leave CU.  
                                                  
    
    Joe
    
    J

    anyone catch the Oklahoma State/Arkansas game last night on PSN?
    
    Cowboy
    

    
    Kansas State is negotiating to play Oklahoma in a regular season 
    football game in Moscow next season or Northern Illinois in Italy 
    in 1991.
    
    Joe

    It seems like two more evenly matched teams would be more
    exciting for the deprived soviet fans.  The money must be
    good for the two teams tho.
    
    Cowboy
    

    		BIG-8 GOLF TOURNAMENT
    
    TEAM STANDINGS:
    1 Oklahoma State	284-272--556
    2 Oklahoma		290-293--583
    3 (tie) Colorado	304-292--596
    	    Kansas	298-298--596
    5 Nebraska		295-302--597
    6 Iowa State	293-309--602
    7 Missouri		301-304--605
    8 Kansas State	301-305--606
    
    INDIVIDUAL STANDINGS:
    Wentworth, OSU	70-65--135
    White, OSU		70-70--140
    Hainline, OSU	78-64--142
    Lee, OU		68-74--142
    Vuilllineo, KSU	71-71--142
    Thayer, KU		71-72--143
    Se Serrano, OSU	71-73--144
    Peterson, NU	72-72--144
    Bell, OU 		73-72--145
    May, OSU		73-73--146
    
    Cowboy
    

    
    Hey Cowboy,
    What makes OSU a top golf school? They seem to always be lingering near
    the top, nationally. Are there allot of courses around there? Is it the
    coaches reputation or maybe some of the ex-student players?
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    > What makes OSU a top golf school? They seem to always be lingering near
    > the top, nationally. Are there allot of courses around there? Is it the
    > coaches reputation or maybe some of the ex-student players?
    
    HOOT, tradition must keep OSU at the top but there *are* plenty of
    golf courses (and highly rated) throughout the state with big-name
    players playing a lot of the courses.  It's a big sport in the state
    (even tho I don't follow it much).  The wealthy, country-club set from
    the oil-boom days probably should get credit for some of the growth of
    the game, too.
    
    Cowboy  

I would also hazard a guess that the weather is pretty much conducive
to year round play, something that doesn't happen up here in the 
Northeast....

    Yeah, there are idiots that'll swing clubs in lightening storms
    and during snow blizzards.   Actually, it's too hot/humid in
    the middle of a summer afternoon in Oklahoma to be chasing a
    golf ball.  The sun fries your skin and after a short time
    outside all your clothes get sweat-soaked.  Night golfing
    is popular in Tulsa for that reason.
    
    Give me Colorado's weather anytime!
    
    Cowboy
    

Didn't realize the weather there was that bad. ;^)

Oh well, kinda blows another theory....

chainsaw

    FINAL RESULTS
    
    BIG-8 GOLF TOURNAMENT
    
    TEAM STANDINGS:
    1 Oklahoma State	284-272-293--849
    2 Oklahoma		290-293-297--880
    3 Colorado		304-292-291--887
    4 Iowa State	293-309-307--909
    5 Kansas		298-298-315--911
    6 Nebraska		295-302-317--914
    7 (tie) Missouri	301-305-314--920
         Kansas State	301-305-314--920
    
    
    TOP 10 INDIVIDUAL STANDINGS:
    
    Wentworth, OSU	70-65-76--211
    White, OSU		70-70-72--212
    Lee,OU		68-74-71--213
    DeSerrano, OSU	71-73-72--216
    Hainline, OSU	78-64-76--218
    Glaesel, CU		74-74-70--218
    May, OSU		73-73-73--219
    Thayer, KU		71-72-79--222
    Webb, ISU		75-74-74--223
    Vuillimon, KSU	71-71-81--223
    
    Cowboy
    

    Oklahoma State's athletic director to retire and become
    president of the national Wrestling Hall of Fame.
    
    Denver Post. Myron Roderick announced yesterday he is resigning
    as Oklahoma State's athletic director since 1983, will become
    president of the national Wrestling Hall of Fame. [in Stillwater]
    His resignation is effective June 30.
    
    "It was a tough decision to make because I love Oklahoma State
    and love what I'm doing,"  Roderick said.
    
    Roderick was a 3-time NCAA wrestling champion at OSU.  He became
    coach of the Cowboys at age 22 and led them to 7 national
    championships in 13 years.  He was a co-founder of the U.S.
    Wrestling Federation spending 5 years as its executive director
    before returning to OSU as athletic director...
    
    
    Cowboy
    

    CU has announce that they will play a two-game series with America's
    premier college football team, the Miami Hurricanes.  They will
    play in Boulder in 1993 and in Miami in 1996. 
    
    Joe

    Oklahoma State won their 1st round game against Fullerton State
    in the CWS 14-4.
    
    In the 7th inning, OSU scored 7 runs with Neil Szeryk and
    Michael Daniel both hit homers to put FS away.  Daniel
    drove in 4 runs, 3 on an inside-the-park homer that sent
    FS left fielder Rich Gonzales to the hospital.  Gonzales
    collided with the left-field wall trying to catch Daniel's
    drive and was taken from the field in an ambulance.  He
    later was reported to be in good condition with no serious
    injuries.
    
    OSU had 18 hits, at least 1 from each starter and 4 apiece
    by Brad Beanblossom and Daniel.
    
    Cowboy
    

    Saw the replay of Gonzales meeting with the wall. Boy was that scary.
    He held on to the ball but the umps had to give the Cowboys an inside-
    the-park HR cuz he made no attempt to remove the ball or show it to
    the ump. I think this rule needs to be re-evaluated. I imagine the 
    centerfielder could have gotten to the ball and and least held the
    guy to a triple. Just seems kind of unfair to penalize a team after
    such a gutsy play.
    				Rich
    

    It sounds like the problem was that the umps don't know whether
    to call it an out or not and with runners on base that need to
    know if they are supposed to tag up or go ahead and run the 
    bases.  It is too bad that that Gonzales made the painful effort
    for nothing.  If this play is going to be questionable in any
    way atleast it probably didn't decide the final outcome of the
    game.
    
    Hoping OSU beats LSU tonight.
    
    Cowboy

    Rumors are flying that the SWC may merge with the Big-8.  These were
    sparked by the rumor that Arkansas may pull out of the SWC to join the
    SEC.

    That could be great with sports like baseball, golf, tennis,
    track, etc but how could other sports like football work?
    There aren't enough games played in the schedule for all
    the teams to play each other.  I'd rather keep the BIG-8
    the way it is.
    
    Cowboy
    

    Oklahoma State won their 2nd round game against LSU 7-1.
    
    Pitchers Brad Gore (1st 7-1/3 innings) and Ritchie Moody
    (relief) limited LSU to the lowest hit total in 7 years
    in a CWS game. (2 hitter)  Michael Daniel hit a 3-run
    homer.  Next game is Thursday against the winner in
    Weds game between The Citadel and LSU.
    
    They're still Hot!!!
    
    Cowboy

    Denver channel 7 reported last night that Colorado is
    under NCAA investivation for minor aligations.  The
    BIG-8 doesn't need any more of this!
    
    Cowboy

    re:-1  I need to add that this is rumor and denied by CU

NCAA :== Salem Witch Hunt

    Oklahoma State continued their CWS winning with a 2nd win over LSU,
    11-3.  Michael Daniel started a 6-run 6th inning with a home run
    and Brad Beanblossom capped it with a run-scoring single to send
    OSU into the Championship game.
    
    The big inning wiped out a 3-2 LSU lead and eliminated the Tigers
    from the series.
    
    Gordie Tipton (10-1) stopped LSU on 4 hits over 8 innings and
    struck out 7.  Tipton retired 15 straight batters after giving
    up 3 runs in the first 2 innings.  He has won all 7 of his
    starts since coach Gary Ward brought him out of the bullpen
    in late April.
    
    Bobby Carlsen drove in three runs and hit a CWS record-tying
    3 doubles to lead OSU's 19-hit assault against a record
    7 pitchers.
    
    In their 3 CWS, the Cowboys have scored 35 runs on 46 hits.
    
    
    
    * This will be OSU's 6th appearance in the title game
    
    * OSU won the national championship in 1959
    
    * OSU finished 2nd in 1961, 1966, 1981 and 1987
    
    * Only USC (12), Arizona St (9), and Texas (8) have made
      more championship game appearances than OSU.  Arizona
      also has played in 6 title games.
    
    
    One more game!!!
    
    Cowboy

    Here's the team scoring of 2nd round of the NCAA golf tournament:
    
    1	Florida		287-283--570
    2	Arizona		288-285--573
    3	Georgia Tech	292-288--580
    4	Arizona St	296-288--584
    5	Florida St	293-293--586
    6	Oklahoma St	294-294--588
    tie	Clemson		289-299--588
    8	Oklahoma	290-300--590
    

    Oklahoma State would have to pull out a miracle finish to
    win the golf championship this year.  I was hoping for 3
    NCAA championships this year.  They have a good shot for
    2 now.  Unfortunately, OSU has a habit of sucking wind
    when it comes down to the final CWS game.  In the past
    they won their games with hot bats and mediocre pitchers.
    It seems this year--atleast the end of the season--the
    bats have been ablazin' and pitching is really good.  During
    the CWS OSU pitchers have kept hits way down so far.
    
    I'll be watching the game in the car tomorrow while my
    wife drives us to Oklahoma for some time off. (Hope there's
    a close station at game time.)
    
    Cowboy

    
    Cowboy,
    Got any individual scores?

    That's about all the golf I saw in the Denver Post. It did say
    that Florida was looking good in individual scoring too.  This
    would be their 1st team championship, according to the Post.
    
    Cowboy

    NCAA golf tournament:
    
    team scoring             2nd round 	Final
    
    1	Arizona St	292-288--584	1155
    2	Florida		287-283--570	1157
    3	Arizona		288-285--573	1159
    4	Oklahoma St	294-294--588	1163
    5	Oklahoma	290-300--590	1167
    tie	Fresno St	 ?   ?    ?	1167
    
    
    individual scoring		final
    
    1	Mickelson, ASU		279
    2	Miskell, Fresno St	283
    3	Karcher, Duke		284
    tie	Zerman, AU		284
    5	Lane, OU		286
    
    
    Cowboy
          

    OSU's baseball coach, Gary Ward, is negociating his new contract.
    He's probably the BIG-8's lowest paid baseball coach at $46,000.
    The word is that he will take the $9,000 increase that was offered
    but will still leave him well below other coaches at other big
    baseball schools.  Texas Univ's coach gets $85,000).  Ward has
    had job offers from private businesses, minor leagues and other
    schools.  Supposedly, he wants to stay but the only thing that
    is holding up the signing is Ward wants guarantees that OSU will
    continue to support the baseball team enough to get back to the
    CWS.  That could be a problem because of sports revenue down
    from their football probation.  (OSU may have to cut back $250,000
    next year).
    
    Ward, 672-203 in 13 seasons at OSU, has made 8 trips to the CWS
    in the past 10 years, finishing 2nd 3 times, 3rd once and 4th once.
    
    
    New AD at OSU:
    
    Jim Garner has been hired to take over Myron Roderick's job (who is
    becoming the executive director of the National Wrestling Hall of
    Fame in Stillwater, OK).  Garner has a tough job to do with the
    downturn of sports income due to the football program.
    
    Cowboy 

    A-S-U! A-S-U! A-S-U! A-S-U! A-S-U! A-S-U! 

    Yeah, congratulations.  Florida must have blown a good 2nd round
    lead somehow.

    Supposedly, the SWC is wanting to add Oklahoma U, but AD Donny Duncan
    hasn't heard from them yet.  He did say that he's not happy with the
    setup in the BIG-8 where schools that make the $$$ from TV, etc, has
    to share with the have-nots.  Can't BLAM him for that but then again
    that is one of the "securities" of belonging to a group.  I think
    that the almighty buck has grown to the point where its the *only*
    reason behind decisions now.  It would be refreshing to start hearing
    more about keeping old rivalries alive and allowing traditions to
    become actually *old* traditions.  
    
    Cowboy
                                     

    Rusty Hilger is now QBing for the Oklahoma City Twisters (Minor
    League Football System).
    
    Other ex-Oklahoma State recruits are:
    
    Ronnie Williams-TE, the QB that Mike Gundy replaced, had an
    incredible arm but no touch and turned receiver his senior year.
    I seriously doubt that there's a pro QB that has a better arm. I've
    seen Williams throw a *bullet* for 80 yards.  Unfortunately for the
    receivers he throws his screen passes with the same velocity.  These
    guys would need the ball surgically removed from their rib cages.
    
    Mitch Nash-RB, an over-looked RB with big league moves and
    strength.  Physically, he's a carbon copy of Thurman Thomas but
    had the bad luck of playing on the same team as him.  When
    Thomas graduated then came Barry Sanders.  Nash could make the
    big bucks if he gets a chance.
    
    Others: 
    
    Woody Pippins-FB
    Donnie Maloney-FB
    Willie Snead-WR
    Ben Rudolph-DL, 6 years with the Jets
    
    Head Coach:
    
    Darryl Rogers--Michigan State, Arizona State and Detroit
    
    
    Cowboy

    
    I heard on CNN (I believe...) that Heisman candidate and CU star
    running back, Eric Bieniemy has been suspended for the season
    opener against Tennessee.  Has anyone else heard about this...?
    I think they said he was arrested for assaulting a fireman who
    came to put out the fire at his parents house?  Anyone in Colorado
    know more about this?  
    
    Also, you CU BuFF fans, any thoughts on the upcoming season?
    Tennessee is a very tough team...how do you think we will do
    without Bieniemy?  I know JJ Flanigan graduated because he was there
    while I was still at CU.  Do we have any great up and coming 
    tailbacks?
    
    
    Peace/ed (CU alum living in the Boston area--Cambridge, MA to be exact)

    Ed,
    
    	You've got the story correct.  He will practice with the team
    	but is banned from playing against Tennessee.  His first game
    	will be the home opener against Stanford.  
    
    	I don't know who his backup is.  
    
    	They will have a tough time with the Vols.  I believe they run
    	out of a *pro* set which gives a 5-2 defense fits.
    
    	I believe they will be just as good as last year.  Whether or
    	not that's good enough to win the Big 8 is a good question...
    
    	Claybone

    I also heard (sportscenter possibly) that Bieniemy also gave
    the police a false name, but I don't know what the charge for
    that was.
    
    Jimbo

    re: .363
    
    Right on Cowboy !!!
    
    
    Nebraska Marty
    
    (Oh, and you guys thought maybee I went away and crawled under a rock
     or something.  ;^)  )

         1990 Nebraska Huskers Football Schedule

Sept.  8    No. Illinois     Oct.  20    Oklahoma State
Sept. 15    Baylor           Oct.  27   @Iowa State
Sept. 22    Minnesota        Nov.   3    Colorado (Revenge !!!)
Sept. 29    Oregon State     Nov.  10   @Kansas
Oct.   6   @Kansas State     Nov.  17   @Oklahoma
Oct.  13    Missouri         Jan.   1    Orange Bowl

                         1991

		Sep. 7	Utah State - HOME
		     14 Colorado State
		     21 Washington - HOME
		     28 Arizona State
		Oct. 12 Oklahoma State
		     19 Kansas State - HOME
		     26 Missouri
		Nov.  2 Colorado
		      9 Kansas - HOME
		     16 Iowa State
		     23 Oklahoma - HOME
				
                         1992
	
		Sep.  5 Utah - HOME
		     12 Temple - HOME
		     19 Washington
		     26 Arizona State - HOME
		Oct. 10 Oklahoma State - HOME
		     17 Kansas State
		     24 Missouri - HOME
		     31 Colorado - HOME
		Nov.  7 Kansas
		     14 Iowa State - HOME
		     21 Oklahoma		
		
                         1993
	
		Sep.  4 Wyoming - HOME
		     11 Texas Tech - HOME
		     18 UCLA
		     25 Colorado State - HOME
		Oct.  9 Oklahoma State
		     16 Kansas State - HOME
		     23 Missouri
		     30 Colorado
		Nov.  6 Kansas - HOME
		     13 Iowa State
		     20 Oklahoma - HOME	

                         1994
	
		Sep.  3 Wyoming - HOME
		     10 Texas Tech
		     17 UCLA - HOME
		     24 Utah State - HOME
		Oct.  8 Oklahoma State - HOME
		     15 Kansas State
		     22 Missouri - HOME
		     29 Colorado - HOME
		Nov.  5 Kansas
		     12 Iowa State - HOME
		     19 Oklahoma
		
                         1995*
	
		Sep.  9 Michigan State
		     16 Arizona State - HOME
		     23 Utah State - HOME
		     30 Washington State - HOME
		
		
                         1996*

		Sep.  7 Nevada-Las Vegas - HOME
		     14 Michigan State - HOME
		     21 Arizona State
		     28 Colorado State - HOME

* 1995 and 1996 Big Eight Schedules still to be determined

    re: -1
    
    I know, I know, man is it ever a whimpy schedule. Just like last year.
    I dont like it either. I dont schedule em, I just root for the team.
    Gets a little better in comming years, but still not great.
    
    Nebraska Marty

    Marty, any idea which games are going to be nationally televised this
    year ?  I'm a Big Red fan too.

    re: -1
    
    Go Big Red !!!  I would be supprised to see anything televised but
    the Colorado game. If Okie State has a good year that one may be on
    ESPN or something. The Baylor, Minnesota games are extremely remote
    chances. I think Oklahoma is still on TV suspension arent they?
    
    Used to be Nebraska got TV games because they are Nebraska. And they
    used to have a tougher schedule. Because of the schedule the last
    few years and the beating they took in the bowl, they wont get any
    games on TV JUST because they are Nebraska this year. Huskers did not
    finish top-10 last year for the first time in some 20 years.
    
    Nebraska Marty

    Will Osborne ever get away from the wishbone and start playing more of
    the proset offence, much like Miami ?  They seem to have trouble with
    such teams, and in reality the wishbone is a thing of the past.  the
    pro-set offence would also help the Neb. players who want to catch on
    with pro teams.

    	Osborne doesn't use the wishbone, ala, OSU, OU. He runs a straight
    power I formation, primarily using the deep back following the
    fullback. They do run quite a few QB options out of the formation, too.

    re: -1
    
    Well lets hope so. Nebraska has run variations of the power I for many
    years. When the Huskers won back-to-back national championships in 70,
    71 Osborne was the Offensive coordinator with Bob Devany as head coach.
    
    Osborne has run pretty much the same offense since then. It's a good
    offense but to keep up with the times he has to pass more from it. It
    is a good set to pass from. He just needs to call more pass plays, pass
    more to the backs and wide recievers and less to the tight ends. As
    it stands now, everybody and their brother knows whats comming. A
    strong team can stop it. The Missouri's and Kansas States of the world
    cant. I dont think Nebraska's problems have been from lack of talent.
    
    Throw 30 passes a game mixed with their rushing game and it could be
    an awsome combination. Osborne has good athletes to work with also.
    I have no idea if the FSU game woke Dr. Tom up or not. I know that
    McCartney at CU is going to concentrate on the pass more. Lets hope
    Nebraska follows the trend.
    
    I have no word out of Lincoln. Living in Colorado Springs I dont get
    much media news out of Omaha. The guys in field service in Omaha are
    never in notes (Node Husker !!!) so I dont get much news their either.
    
    Nebraska Marty

    >	Osborne doesn't use the wishbone, ala, OSU, OU. He runs a straight
    
    OSU doesn't use the wishbone either.  They use the I formation.
    
    Cowboy

    re: My note a few back.
    
    It should be "re: -2" I did not realize Keith added a node just before
    me.
    
    re: -1 personal name
    
    Hey Cowboy, has Okie State won 29 NCAA national wrestling
    championships? If so * THAT * is awesome !!! If they have gotten 29,
    then how many has Iowa and Iowa State had???
    
    Nebraska Marty

    Yeah, they won the NCAA the last two years.   Hopefully, OSU
    will continue their comeback.  They've been slacking off for
    a few years.  BTW, the National Wrestling Hall of Fame is in
    Stillwater, although I've never been in it.  It's always
    closed when I'm in town.  Supposedly, my wrestling coach from
    years back is mentioned there.  His name is Merle Jennings.
    His twin brother, Berle and him were both 3 or 4 times NCAA
    wrestling champs back in the '40s.  I don't remember what
    school they wrestled for tho.
    
    Sorry, I have no idea how many championships any schools have
    (other than OSU of course).
    
    Cowboy

    
    	AP reported this morning that OU RB Mike Gaddis has not recovered
    from a knee injury suffered last season and will miss the entire
    1990 season.  He will only have one year of eligibility left if he 
    is able to fully recover.  The injury is similar to that suffered 
    by former Penn State RB Blair Thomas, however OU coach Gary Gibbs
    and team doctors have determined that Gaddis is 'not nearly where
    he needs to be.'
    
    						 glen j.
    

re: -1

I bet they got 3 others just about as good ready to go.

Nebraska Marty

>I bet they got 3 others just about as good ready to go.
    
    	Won't make any difference.  
    
                                        	 glen j. 

    Regarding .365/.366 - I have heard that a red-shirt freshman named
    Snowden is Bienemy's backup.
    
    The story I have heard is that there was a fire at the brand new home
    of Eric's mother.  After the flames had been put out, a fireman took an
    axe and started knocking a hole in one of the walls.  Eric thought that
    the fire was out and that it was unnecessary to knock a hole in the
    wall, so he jumped the fireman.  Eric's outburst was wrong, but it was
    due to his concern for his mom's new home.
    
    McCartney's decision was unpopular with many here in Colorado.  I feel
    the coach's decision was a prudent one.  Eric has an incredible future
    waiting for him on the horizon.  But he needs to control his "hot
    head" and the coach's decision to bench him for the UT game will help
    reinforce that.
    
    I still think CU will win the game, but I am relieved that the game is
    being played on a neutral field.  I have been to games at Neyland
    Stadium in Knoxville.  96,000 wild Vol fans!
    
    My husband is a grad of UT and I am a CU alum.  I could have lived my
    whole life without these two teams every having to play!!!!!  But no!!!
    
    Jan

    
    I just saw Colorado's non-conference football schedule...
    They play Tennessee, Stanford, Illinois, Texas and Washington.
    Wow, pretty impressive....Tennessee and Illinois are legitimate
    top ten teams, Washington is top-twenty and Stanford and Texas 
    aren't slouches either.  If Colorado can be 5-0 at this point,
    then another run at the national championship is not outta
    the question.  All they have to do is beat Nebraska at
    Lincoln, which of course we know they will...
    
    Peace/ed

McCartney seems to be a fair and prudent man. My guess is that he
has a team rule about this and he makes it consistant accross the
board. Young college football types need this type of discipline.

Good choice by McCartney. Other coaches would benefit by this type
of coaching.

Nebraska Marty

    I was in Oklahoma City saturday night and saw that Barry Switzer
    was still around doing commercials for a local car dealership.
    He must have more credibility in Oklahoma than I thought.  
    
    Cowboy

> McCartney seems to be a fair and prudent man. My guess is that he
> has a team rule about this and he makes it consistant accross the
> board. Young college football types need this type of discipline.
    
    He just signed a multi-year contract that *HE* asked to contain
    a clause that said something like if he didn't punish every
    player that got arrested then he (coach Mac) would be fired.
    
    Anyone remember more about what the wording REALLY said?
    
    Cowboy
    

re: .381,383

>>I bet they got 3 others just about as good ready to go.
    
>    	Won't make any difference.  
    
>                                        	 glen j. 


>                     ...If Colorado can be 5-0 at this point,
>    then another run at the national championship is not outta
>    the question.  All they have to do is beat Nebraska at
>    Lincoln, which of course we know they will...
    
>    Peace/ed


Now, now young men. Such arrogance before the season has even started...
Geez, I don't know...

Only time will tell.

Nebraska Marty

    I seriously doubt it if OU has 3 others as good as Gaddis ready
    to go, but they do have some good ones.  Gaddis was fantastic before
    his injury.
    
    Bienemy's replacement for the UT game will probably be 3rd year
    sophomore Matt Bell.  It is a good thing the UT game is not in
    Knoxville.  Let's hope ND gets their tails kicked later in the year
    when they visit Volunteer country.  CU's non-conference schedule
    is very tough; one poll (I think it was Lindy's) had the Huskies
    ranked 5th nationally.
    
    Is NU any closer to picking a starting QB?  Last I heard Mickey
    Joseph had a very slight edge over the other QB, whose name I can't
    recall.  I was reading that NU is only returning 2 starters on offense,
    but Osborne doesn't seem to be too concerned.
    
    Joe
       

re: -1

>    Is NU any closer to picking a starting QB?  Last I heard Mickey
>    Joseph had a very slight edge over the other QB, whose name I can't
>    recall.  I was reading that NU is only returning 2 starters on offense,
>    but Osborne doesn't seem to be too concerned.

The other guys last name is Grant I think. Mickey Joseph was very highly
touted out of high school. Grant wasent considered a blue-chipper but has
come on strong.

The guys I talked to back in Omaha say they have heard nothing about who
will be starting. I will say that Osborne usually waits until the week
before the first game to announce it.

Only 2 starters returning on offense is why many of the football magazines
are picking Nebraska in the top 20 but not top 10. However, the Huskers
normally only have 4 to 6 returning starters on offense due to their 5
year program. Many of Nebraska's starters year after year are 5th year
redshirt seniors. It's not unusual for a NU kid to start only 1 year in
his college career at Nebraska. I also heard that Osborne is not concerned.

Hopefully to counter that is the fact that they have many defensive 
starters returning. Plus the fact that they have a pud schedule and can
get some starting experience into the offense before they play anyone
halfway decent. There are good and bad things about that though.

Nebraska Marty

    
    I hope that Notre Dame goes undefeated (yes, I know that means 
    beating Miami at South Bend) and Colorado goes undefeated so
    we can have a rematch in the Orange Bowl--because I think this time
    Colorado would kick Notre Dame's butt...and Lou Holtz by the third
    quarter would be "grab-bagging...."
    
    If Miami beats Notre Dame...I don't know...playing Miami in the Orange
    Bowl on New Year's Day is like playing the Roadrunner when your name
    is Wile E. Coyote...
    
    Peace/ed

    The Miami-ND clash is definitely college football's game of the
    year.  It is also the last game between the 2 schools in the series
    because ND is dropping Miami, but we won't get into that.  I'll
    go on record now as saying that Miami will win fairly easy again.
    Remember the date: October 20th.
    GO 'Canes!!!
    
    Joe

Note .369 has the Nebraska football schedule. Does anyone have the
complete Big-8 schedule?

Nebraska Marty

There might be some typos, but I think this is it...


Colorado
--------
8-26   Tennessee
9-8    Stanford
9-15   @ Illinois
9-22   @ Texas
9-29   Washington
10-6   @ Missouri
10-13  Iowa St
10-20  @ Kansas
10-27  Oklahoma
11-3   @ Nebraska
11-10  Oklahoma St
11-17  Kansas St

Nebraska
--------
9-1    Baylor
9-8    No. Illinois
9-22   Minnesota
9-29   Oregon St
10-6   @ Kansas State
10-13  Missouri
10-20  Oklahoma St
10-27  @ Iowa St
11-3   Colorado
11-10  @ Kansas
11-17  @ Oklahoma

Oklahoma St
-----------
9-8    Tulsa
9-15   No. Iowa
9-22   @ TCU
10-6   Oklahoma
10-13  @ Kansas St
10-20  @ Nebraska
10-27  Missouri
11-3   Kansas
11-10  Colorado
11-17  @ Iowa St

Oklahoma
--------
9-8    @ UCLA
9-15   Pittsburgh
9-22   Tulsa
9-29   Kansas
10-6   Oklahoma St
10-13  @ Texas
10-20  Iowa St
10-27  @ Colorado
11-3   @ Missouri
11-10  Kansas St
11-17  Nebraska

Iowa St
-------
9-8    No. Illinois
9-15   @ MInnesota
9-22   @ Iowa
9-29   West. Michigan
10-6   Kansas
10-13  @ Colorado
10-20  @ Oklahoma
10-27  Nebraska
11-3   @ Kansas St
11-10  Missouri
11-17  Oklahoma St

Kansas
------
9-1    Virginia
9-8    Oregon St
9-15   @ Louisville
9-29   @ Oklahoma
10-6   @ Iowa St
10-13  @ Miami
10-20  Colorado
10-27  Kansas St
11-3   @ Oklahoma St
11-10  Nebraska
11-17  Missouri

Kansas St
---------
9-8    West. Illinois
9-15   New Mexico St
9-22   @ No. Illinois
9-29   New Mexico
10-6   Nebraska
10-13  Oklahoma St
10-20  @ Missouri
10-27  @ Kansas
11-3   Iowa St
11-10  @ Oklahoma
11-17  @ Colorado

Missouri
--------
9-8    TCU
9-15   Utah St
9-22   @ Indianna
9-29   Arizona St
10-6   Colorado
10-13  @ Nebraska
10-20  Kansas St
10-27  Oklahoma St
11-3   Oklahoma
11-10  @ Iowa St
11-17  @ Kansas 

HA! Stevie Boy, beat ya to it... (and mine even had dates!)

'Saw


PS Don't mind me, it's monday.....

A little Husker news from Omaha.

Terry Rodgers (Nebraska Heisman winner Johnny Rodgers Son) reinjured his
knee which was recovering from surgury. Osborne said he is concerned.

Wingback Nate Turner is hurt also. A leg problem, not a knee though.

No news on the QB thing.

Nebraska Marty

I got some more news from the boys in Omaha Field Service:

	Got some more huskers news. T.O. says that Grant and
	Joseph are dead even for first team QB. Also expect an 
	anouncement regarding Terry Rogers. Just another trivial 
	tid bit. T.O. said that if the Huskers ever did have a couple
	of bad seasons he did'nt know if it would be worth staying
	because of all the flack.


Nebraska Marty

    RE: -1
    
    Does it sound like T.O. is getting tired of his job?

More Husker news from Omaha Field Service:

	The Baylor game originally scheuled for Sept 15th has been moved
	to a Sept 1st night game and will be on ESPN. ALRIGHT !!!!!!!!

	For any noters who live in the Colorado Springs area - I'm havin
	a GO BIG RED HUSKER PARTY !!!! YEEAAAAAAAAAA !!!

	Wingback Nate Turner is out for 6 weeks with a broken colar bone
	I think. They are moving a 6'4" 240 lb Freshman to 3rd string
	wingback.

	Loetis Flowers is now 1st string halfback but word is he will be
	severly challenged by Scott Baldwin.

Nebraska Marty

    Hard to believe that Flowers is being challenged at I-Back.  It
    sounded like he was going to be their main man after finishing with
    a 7.5 yard average last year.  Of NU's top 3 rushers from last year,
    Flowers is the only one left - the others being Gdowski and Clark.
    Any news on how Terry Rodgers is recovering from the injury a couple
    years ago?
    
    Joe

    I don't usually thrown stones at schedules...but I heard Nebraska tried
    to squeeze the Boys Town Tech in, but refused to play them away from
    Lincoln. What happened to the Huskers I used to respect.....you
    know..with a championship schedule.  Come on NU fans...don't stand for
    this insult of a schedule.  
    
    What is the strategy....point to two games, CU and OU, and surround
    them with cream puffs.  Jeepers!!!!!

Any comment from the Big 8 troops on Nebraska going to the Big 10 or Big
11 or whatever it's called today? USA Today has an article on all the
movement and it projects Nebraska to the Big 10.

In fact, it labels the Big 8 as a possible loser in the shuffle with what
they call 'no natural way to go' in terms of expansion.

TTom

    
    Loetis Flowers?  Tell me this guy wasn't either born at Woodstock
    or raised on a commune with Dweezle Zappa and Moon Unit.
    
    Dickster
    

    re: -1
    
    Flowers is from Omaha, Nebraska. Went to high school at Omaha Central.
    
    re: few back
    
    I just read the article in USA Today. Looks to me like an article based on
some fact with a huge amount of speculation thrown in. This is the first I
have heard of the Husker/Big-10 thing.

Here are the articles statements about Nebraska:

	Nebraska is, or should be, off to the finacially more lucrative Big
	Ten. But the Huskers repelled that league's advances late last 
	month. But maybe the Big Ten people will count heads in Lincoln, NE
	and realize that the Kansas City and St. Louis that Missouri has 
	makes more sense.

	But already signs have started that Nebraska is rethinking about 
	flirting with the Big Ten. Two school administratiors said last 
	week the Big Ten had a certain appeal.

Their speculation of conference make up:

	Big-10			Big-8

	Nebraska		Iowa State
	Iowa			Missouri
	Michigan		Kansas State
	Pen State		Kansas
	Ohio State		Oklahoma State
	Illinois		Oklahoma
	Michigan State		North Texas
	Minnesota		TCU
	Northwestern		SMU
	Wisconsin		Baylor
	Purdue			Houston
	Indiana			Rice

They are placing Colorado and BYU in the Pac-10

Wierd stuff. Lots of speculation based on SOME fact.

Nebraska Marty

    
    Word here is that if Texas, Colorado, BYU, and Texas A&M joined the PAC
    10 they'd have 25% of the US television market.  The problem is that
    with the increased revenue from certain sports (football, basketball)
    they'd also have significant increases in the travel expenses for the
    less popular sports.
    
    Bruce   

    
    Does anyone have any word on the Buffs offensive line and how deep
    is it? 
    
    
    
    Drewski
    
    

    RE -2
    
    CU lost 2 players from last year's offensive line, guard Darrin
    Muilenburg and tackle Bill Coleman, but the returning 3 are strong all-Big
    8 candidates.  Joe Garten, an All-American last year, returns at
    left guard, Jay Leeuwenburg returns at center and Mark Vander Poel,
    a 6-8 305 pounder, returns at right tackle.  The projected starter
    at left tackle is Ariel Solomon, a 6-6 275 lb. senior, and at right
    guard it is Russ Heasley, a 6-4 265 lb. junior.  Garten is a 6-3
    280 lb. senior and Leeuwenburg is a 6-3 265 lb. junior.  The Buffs'
    starting offensive line is rumored to be 2nd best in the nation
    behind Michigan's.  One of McCartney's main concerns on this team
    is depth on the offensive line, so let's hope the starting 5 stay
    healthy.
                                  
    Joe

    UPI Preseason Poll (1st place votes in parentheses)
    
    1. Miami (25)
    2. Notre Dame (15)
    3. Florida State (8)
    4. Auburn (8)
    5. Colorado (2)
    6. USC
    7. Michigan
    8. Nebraska
    9. Tennessee
    10. Clemson
    11. Texas A&M
    12. Illinois
    13. Ohio State
    14. BYU
    15. Arkansas
    16. Washington
    17. Alabama
    18. Penn State
    19. UCLA
    20. Pitt
    21. Virginia
    22. Michigan State
    23. Arizona
    24. Syracuse (tie)
        Texas         
    
    The Sooners are not ranked because UPI doesn't rank teams on probation.
    
    Joe

    This year's Buffalo squad returns 8 All-American candidates, led
    by junior QB Darian Hagan, one of the preseason Heisman favorites.
    The others returning are OG Joe Garten, OT Mark Vander Poel, TB
    Eric Bienemy, NT Joel Steed, OLB's Kanavis Mcghee and Alfred Williams
    and punter Tom Rouen.  Overall, CU returns 6 starters of offense
    and 7 on defense.
    
    Bienemy has been suspended for the first game against Tennessee
    and Michael Simmons has been named as the starter at tailback for
    that game.  Mike Pritchard will start at wingback against the Vols,
    but will be move to wide receiver after this game, a move he made
    in the spring.  McCartney says the Buffs will be passing more this
    year, mainly because they need to be less predictable against stronger
    opponents.  Hagan averaged less than 8 passes per game last year,
    although he left a few games at halftime because the Buffs had big
    leads.  The offensive line returns 3 starters and is one of the nation's
    best.  In addition to Garten and Vander Poel, center Jay Leeuwenburg
    also returns, and one preseason publication had all 3 of them on
    its all Big-8 team.  McCartney said that David Arterberry and Chuck
    Snowden may also see some time at tailback against Tennessee.
                               
    On defense, the Buffs will be very dominant, led by the bookends,
    outside linebackers Kanavis McGhee and Alfred Williams.  On the
    inside, the starters will be Greg Biekert and Chad Brown, who was
    a starter at the end of last season.  Terry Johnson, who was one
    of the inside 'backers last year, has lost his starting job.  Only
    nose tackle Joel Steed returns on the defensive line, but Garry
    Howe, who will start at one end, played more than Okland Salavea
    in the final weeks of last season.  The other starter on the line
    will be redshirt freshman Leonard Renfro.  In the secondary, Deon
    Figures has been named the starter over David Gibbs at one cornerback
    spot.  Figures was a starter 2 years ago, but was suspended last
    season.  Also returning in the defensive backfield are cornerback
    Dave McCloughan and strong safety Tim James.  
    
    Jim Harper, a juco transfer, will replace the departed Ken Culbertson
    at placekicker.
    
    Outlook: On paper, CU has a better, more experienced team than last
    year, but they may not go undefeated again because the schedule
    is tougher.  The Buffs play on the road against Texas, Illinois,
    and Nebraska, 3 teams which they got at home last year.  Plus they
    play Tennessee in the inagural Pigskin Classic.  Also, Washington
    and Oklahoma are both expected to be better this season.  Eric Bienemy
    is expected to return to the starting lineup for the Sept. 6th home
    opener against Stanford.  That game is slated for 6pm(MDT) on ESPN.
    
    
    Joe

    
    
    I just saw that Colorado is a 5 point favorite over Tennessee
    for this Sunday's college football opener.  Any opinions on
    this?  I think this is a bit on the high side.  Tennessee is
    a good team and this is being played on a neutral field and
    CU won't be playing their star running back--Eric Bieniemy.
    I think last year CU finished 4th and Tennessee finished 5th
    in the final AP poll.  I think maybe CU favored by 1 or 2 would
    be more appropriate.
    
    However if I do have to make a prediction, I would say:
    
    Colorado   31
    Tennessee  27
    
    
    Peace/ed

    
    Tennessee by 11,Chuck Webb to get over 150 yards to win MVP of game.
    
    
    
    d.s.
    

    UT by 20.

CU is serious about this game. McCartney is showering UT with complements on 
the Offensive side of the ball. 

I expect a CU 42 UT 10. 

Kanavis McGee 4 sacks

    UT's offense is as strong as CU's if not better with Chuck Webb
    returning, but the Vols have some problems on the defensive side of
    the ball.  Last year they were dead last in the SEC in passing defense.
    With that in mind, I expect Hagan to pass about 15-20 times Sunday.
    The Buffs will start off the season on a good note.
    
    CU 38
    UT 20
    
    Joe
    
    

    If you were to wager on this game give up the points, UT will
    not score many points in this game.
    
    Take it to the bank 
    Jimbo

    .415�    UT's offense is as strong as CU's if not better with Chuck Webb
    .415�    returning, but the Vols have some problems on the defensive side of
    .415�    the ball.  Last year they were dead last in the SEC in passing defense.
    
     Tennessee recruited 5 of the top ten Jr. college players to help the
    defense.One defensive lineman had more sacks last year than the whole 
    UT defense.They are also returning 8 starters on defense which should
    make them a little more experienced this year.
    
    d.s.

This game was too early. Both teams sloppy. 9 turnovers total. I dont
think this game can be used as an accurate measure of either team. We
dont know how good either team really is.

There is one set of stats that may mean something however:

                          Colorado             Tenn.

	Passing yards    5 - 19 68yds 3 int   33 - 53 368yds 3 int

Tenn had 235 yds passing in the 4th quarter.

Its a good thing Colorado wasent the team behind by 14 in the 4th.

Its the same old Big-8 story. Cant pass and cant defend the pass. I
have a strong feeling that Nebraska will be the same was against strong
passing teams also, not to mention Oklahoma as well.

By the way, why dident the Tenn. coach go for the 2 point conversion after
either of the 2 comback TD's. I seem to remember a coach that DID go for 2
with the national championship on the line in the Orange Bowl. It dident 
pay off with a win, but the rest of the football world respected him for it.

Nebraska Marty

Gee, the silence in this note is deafening !!!
Why no discussion of the game? I dident see it and would like to hear
some opinions.

Nebraska Marty

    The Buffs had to be happy to be tied at halftime after turning over
    the ball 4 times.  The defense did a good job stopping the Vols
    when they had good field position in the first half, but the 21
    4th-quarter points by UT was a big disappointment.  After CU went
    ahead 24-10 on a punt return by Dave McCloughan, UT went 70 yards
    in 42 seconds, 87 yards in 1:35, and 74 yards in 1:44.  That is
    pathetic, and one of the big reasons for these quick drives was
    lack of a pass rush.
    
    Hagan's passing was very bad, and I thought he should have tucked
    the ball and run on a few occasions.  His running and pitching game
    was impressive, especially on the pitch to Pritchard for a 78-yard
    TD run, although that one was close to being an illegal forward
    pass.  I also feel that CU was forcing the passing game.  I realize
    that Coach Mac wants to improve the passing game, but the Buffs
    had a nice 19 play, 97 yard drive which included only 1 pass.  CU
    still has one of the nation's best running games, even without Bienemy.
    
    Pritchard looked very impressive at tailback (20 carries, 217 yards,
    2 TD's), but he probably won't be playing there any more unless
    Bienemy gets hurt.  Boman had a good game at tight end. 
    
    Overall, the defense was impressive thru 3 quarters, and the Buffs
    came back nice after a terrible start on offense.  And they did
    tie a top-10 team despite turning the ball over 5 times.  If CU
    is going to improve the passing game, obviously Hagan will have
    to develop better accuracy.  On all of his picks, it look like he
    overthrew his receivers.  Penalties and turnovers are also areas
    where the Buffs need to improve to remain a top-10 team.
    
    Did anyone notice the offensive pass-interference penalty against CU
    on their 2nd posession?  The Buffs were penalized 15 yards PLUS
    loss of down, so it was 2nd and 25.  The only time I've ever seen
    a penalty and loss of down is on intentional grounding.
    
    RE -1
    Majors didn't go for 2 because he thought his defense could stop
    CU in 3 plays, and the way his offense had been moving they could
    get into field goal range quickly.  As it turned out, they almost
    did but time ran out.  I thought all along if UT scored to make
    it 31-30 that they would go for 2.
    
    
    Joe
    
    

    In retrospect, not going for 2 was an excellent decision.  A tie is
    a fair result to this game (which I listened to for most of the
    fourth quarter, and watched some of the first half).  Now, if each team
    goes undefeated the rest of the way, they can still play for the
    national championship on New Year's Day.  It's gonna take a really good
    team to beat either Tennessee or Colorado.
    
    For those who didn't see the game, Tennessee scored with 2:35 left and
    kicked the point after to tie the game at 31.  Colorado got one first 
    down but were stopped at midfield.  Tennessee got the ball back with 50
    seconds left, and with 7 seconds left Webb ran for 25 yards to the
    Colorado 16, but time ran out.  The radio announcers made a big deal
    out of Tennessee letting 15 seconds run off the clock before using a
    time out during this last drive.  Seems like it cost them the game, but
    I'm hazy on the details.  Can anyone fill me in?  Thanks.
    
    NAZZ

re: -1

Ah, I see. If there was that much time left and UT had momentum, then
the UT coach made the right decision.

Thanks for the info NAZZ.

Nebraska Marty

    If both teams can go undefeated the rest of the way it would be a hell
    of a matchup for the national title except Tennessee would be locked
    into the Sugar Bowl and Colorado into the Orange Bowl.
    
    :-(
    
    John

Are the BUffs ever going to let this Sal Anuse thing die ?
I don't want to sound un-sympathetic but it has been over a year and the
team is still doing tributes to him. Now before every kickoff they raise their
helmets in "tribute to their fallen leader" (that's what they said on tv)

I'm almost in agreement with Mr. T on this issue and that is scary.


Metz
 

    re. 421
    
    While it is true that CU overcame 5 turnovers, let's not forget that TN
    also had 4 turnovers including at least interception in the CU endzone.
    
    re. 422
    
    I think that TN will lose at least 2 games this year.  Sept. 29 at
    Auburn and whenever ND comes to Neyland Stadium.  Not everybody has as
    loose a pass defense as CU and there are certainly lots of teams that
    have much better passing attacks than CU.
    
    On another note, can anyone believe the selection of Hagan as player of
    the game?  5-19, 3 int., 68 yds passing.  I think Pritchard or
    Kelly would have been much better choices.  I guess the people who made
    this selection just could not resist the pre-season hype.

    re: .425

>Are the BUffs ever going to let this Sal Anuse thing die ?
>I don't want to sound un-sympathetic but it has been over a year and the
>team is still doing tributes to him. Now before every kickoff they raise their
>helmets in "tribute to their fallen leader" (that's what they said on tv)

Ooohhhhh watch out !!! I agree with you but Colorado fans are 

                     E  X  T  R  E  M  E  L  Y

sensitive on this issue.

I mentioned it at the close of last season in this note and got BLASTED
for it. Basicaly, Colorado fans feel VERY strongly about this while most
fans outside of Colorado feel this had been run into the ground.

Nebraska Marty

    As far as national championship hopes go, this tie will hurt CU very
    little.  They may drop 1 or 2 spots in the polls because they were the
    favorite in the game.  CU was ranked 5th in the AP preseason poll.
    
    NU is ranked 7th in the AP poll and OU 22nd.
    
    Joe

    >As far as national championship hopes go, this tie will hurt CU very
    >little.  They may drop 1 or 2 spots in the polls because they were the
    >favorite in the game.  CU was ranked 5th in the AP preseason poll.
    
    Only Notre Dame gets that kind of respect in the polls.  CU will drop
    by more than that.  If you're a fan, best that they got it out of the
    way early.
    
    Dan

    Dan,
    
    You really are unreal.  I thought you hated Wade Boggs or the Celtics
    more than anything, I realize it is Notre Dame.  Here is a note
    about the BIG 8, specifically about Colorado, and you put in a cheap
    shot on ND.  Grow up, willya.
    
    JD

    I agree with an earlier reply that CU forced the passing game to
    quickly, they were running the ball extremely well, they have a
    punishing ground game. They shouldn't have thrown as much. They've
    only been able to work on the passing game in practice, then to 
    come out against a team like UT in the opener and to think that
    the passing game will click was a big mistake by CU. They should
    have gradually worked it into the system, next week they play
    Stanford, that would have been the time to open it up a litlle
    more.
                                                 Dan

What's a matter JD, the truth hurt?

;^)

mike

    OK, let's get this straight:
    
    - Unless you went to Notre Dame, you are not allowed to make comment on
    the team.
    
    - If you are talking about other schools or college football in
    general, you cannot mention Notre Dame in comparison no matter how
    fact-based your comment is.
    
    Are there any other rules we should be aware of so as not to offend the
    holier-than-thou alums and fans?
    
    	--dan'l

    Here is a perfect example that shows how much favoritism ND gets in the
    polls:  In the first poll released after the weekend Miami whipped the
    Irish 27-10 last year, one sportswriter actually gave ND a first place
    vote!!  And then Holtz the jerk has the nerve to cry that his team doesn't
    get a fair shake in the polls.
    
    Joe  

Gee, you guys have hotels ??!!!??

In Nebraska all they have are tents and all transportation is by horse.
Of course, you must carry your gun at all times for fear of Wild Indians
and Okie's.  (Ten Thousand little simily's)

By the way, Nebraska plays Saturday evening on ESPN vs the Baylor Bears.
I've heard Baylor had a good defense buy NU is favored by something like
15 points. Anyone have more info???

Nebraska Marty

I got some more info from the boys in Omaha Field Service.

	NOTE: All non-complimentary references to the Baylor team are
              not Nebraska Marty's idea, nor are they supported by said
              author of this note. (However, you gotta admit, it is
              pretty funny)

>		Here's a couple of notes from husker land I thought
>	you would be interested in. 
>	1. T.O. announced the starting QB for the Baylor Game, it is
>	   Mike Grant but he said that Joseph will play in the first
>	   Half.
>	2. Mike Petko, the Huskers fastest middle line backer ever.
>	   made a miraculus recovery on the knee he injured and will
>	   start saturday night against the Baylor Buttheads.
>	3. Here's a Baylor note for you also. It seems that the 
>	   Buttheads starting Q.B. twisted his knee and according 
>	   to the Baylor coachs will not play saturday night against
>	   the Huskers. A Freshman option QB will start instead. The 
>	   Husker coaches think that the regular QB will start and 
>	   that it is a ploy to fool the Huskers. We'll have to wait
>	   till Saturday night to know for sure.

Nebraska Marty  c/o the boys back in Omaha

   >Grow up, willya.
    
    Never.  Principle knows no age.
    
    Dan             

    RE Dan'l
    
    My note was direct at Dan Schneider.  No one else.  What did his
    comment have to do with CU and Tennessee's tie?  Nothing.  That's
    what.  In what, 1966, ND and Mich. St played to a tie - that's the
    basis of the complaints. Dan is roughly the same age as me - I was
    7 year's old in 1966.   Ancient history and no bearing on the
    discussion.
    To mr. Conatch - So, there was one lunatic fringe voter.  Happens
    all the time - and believe it or not, it happens with other schools,
    included, -gasp- , your mighty'canes.
    
    JD, not an alum, nor holier-than-thou - at least no more than Dan
    is about HIS favorites, Mr. Conatch is about Miami, or Dan'l you
    are about the Steelers.

    I attended the CU/UT game in Anaheim on the 26th.  It was truly an
    exciting game--a real nail-biter at times.  I was pleased to see such a
    good turn-out.  There were over 33,000 people there--with lots of CU
    and Tennessee fans there.
    
    As a CU fan, I was disappointed at our many mistakes, but it gave the
    team an opportunity to see where they needed to improve.  It was great
    playing such a good team early in the season.  CU really didn't play a
    super-tough squad until the OU game last year.  So it was goodness to
    play UT prior to our tough preseason schedule.  
    
    re: .426 - Hagan was not the MVP for the game.  Mike Pritchard and Andy
    Kelly received the MVP awards.
    
    During half Coach Robinson of Grambling received an achievement award
    from the Pigskin Classic/Disney organization.  It was a great half time
    show and a great tribute to a well-respected coach.
    
    CU does a good portion of their recruiting in California, so it was
    good to be playing a ballgame there in LA.  We sat in back of a group
    of guys who had gone to high school with Rico Smith.  They went nuts
    went he caught a key 4th down pass in the fourth quarter.
    
    re: the complaint about continuing the "Sal Anuese thing", I am one of
    those touchy fans Marty was talking about.  That tragedy had a strong
    effect on those kids, and it is not something they will easily shrug
    off.  But look at it this way--they had an incredible season last year. 
    Doesn't it make sense that they would continue some of the traditions
    of last year, ie, raising helmets during kickoffs.  I think that has
    more to do with team solidarity than Sal.
    
    In closing, I am glad and amazed that CU, after all their mistakes, did
    not lose the game.  I know they will learn a lot from this game.  And I
    am glad it was a tie--partly because my husband is a UT grad, but also
    because both teams are so good, it's great that neither is going into
    preseason with a loss.
    
    Regards,
    Jan

    >re: .426 - Hagan was not the MVP for the game.  Mike Pritchard and Andy
    >Kelly received the MVP awards.
    
    The telecast that I watched (NBC) certainly gave it to Hagan. I was
    pretty much in shock when they made that announcement. Pritchard and
    Kelly were certainly the deserving parties for the award IMHO. 

    
    
    
    Taken from Don Heinrich's 1990 College Preview:
    
    Baylor finished last in the SWC in total offense last year with a 307.4
    yard per game average and only 22 TD's.  This year's offensive line is
    experienced, and BU plans to go to more of a ball-control offense. 
    Running back Robert Strait is a redshirt freshman who missed last
    season after arriving as the best RB recruit ever at Baylor. 
    
    The defense should be solid, although they lost James Francis, last
    year's SWC Defensive Player of the Year.  They return 3 starters on the
    defensive line in their 4-3 defense.  The Bears led the SWC and
    finished ninth nationally in total defense yielding 279.7 yards per
    game last year.  BU returns 7 starters in all on defense, and should be
    a fairly good test for NU's young offense.
    
    The game should be interesting for about a half, but I think NU will
    end up winning by about 3 or 4 TD's.  This should be NU's toughest
    non-conference opponent.
    
    Joe

>    The defense should be solid, although they lost James Francis, last
>    year's SWC Defensive Player of the Year.  They return 3 starters on the
>    defensive line in their 4-3 defense.  The Bears led the SWC and
>    finished ninth nationally in total defense yielding 279.7 yards per
>    game last year.  BU returns 7 starters in all on defense, and should be
>    a fairly good test for NU's young offense.

Since Nebraska is only returning 2 offensive starters and the QB is new,
I think that the Huskers may sputter in the first half. You may see some
dumb mistakes such as penalties, fumbles, problems in passing game etc...

I also thing that the Bugeaters (Nebraska's nick-name before it was the
Cornhuskers) will prevail big in the second half.

Nebraskas defense is the Huskers fastest ever. I think they will be tough.
Baylor may have trouble scoring. My prediction, and remember, you heard it
here FIRST (But remember, I am almost NEVER right on my predictions):

	Halftime	Final

	Huskers  10	Huskers  38
	Bears    7	Bears    10

Nebraska Marty

    re:442 
    
    I was at the game and Mike Pritchard and Andy Kelly received trophies
    for MVP from the Disney sponsors of the game.  That would make them the
    official MVP's.  It looks like NBC just nominated their own MVP!
    
    Jan

    	Why did Tennessee go for the tie?  Because they saw Florida
    State lose any chance for the mythical national championship a few
    years ago when they lost to Miami in the first game of the season.
    With about 2:00 to go neither coach was going to risk winning the
    game.  Take the tie and the chance for a better bowl game with more
    money.  That's what college football's all about.
    
    				/Don

   I've never agreed with the thinking that says:

   Down 1   a few seconds left   you run or pass the ball for 2 pts.
    
   and ` go for the win '.

   My guesstimate, just from watching a lot of college ball, is that the 2
   point play stands about a 20% chance of success, while the kicked extra
   point is successful about 95%+ of the time.

   I call it going for the loss.

   It's only one game out of a season. Take the tie. Be a hero next week.

   Mike JN

    
    Well, I am glad that at least one other person saw NBC award the MVP to
    Hagan.  Bill Walsh was shocked to say the least.
    
    Majors now holds the lead among active 1A coaches with the most ties. 
    Teams of his now have 9 ties.
    
    TN was 2 stoopid(TM) plays away from at least having a chance to win the
    game.  They had 2 and 1 on the CU 41 with 25 seconds left.  They threw
    2 incomplete passes with ran 18 seconds off the clock.  They then ran
    the draw play that took the ball to the 16 and time ran out.  They
    could have run the draw on 2nd down and gained 5 or 6 yards to put them
    in FG range.  The CU defensive line was totally worn out by that time
    of the game.
    
    I will be glad when real football season starts(you know, when the SEC
    season gets underway).

    
    1. Colorado        Last year was no fluke. The Buffs are loaded with
                       talent and will repeat as Big-8 Champions.
    
    2. Oklahoma        People are underestimating OU. The Sooners had a lot
                       of injuries last year and have a strong defense.
                       They get NU in Norman.
    
    3. Nebraska        Inexperience on offense but very solid on defense.
                       They will miss Gdowski, but should win no less than 
                       9 games for the 22nd consecutive year.
    
    4. Iowa State      Will depend on the running of Bryant very much. The
                       Cyclones may go to a minor bowl.
    
    5. Oklahoma St.    With Gundy gone there's a big hole in the offense,
                       but the Cowboys will be respectable.
    
    6. Kansas          This team has a positive attitude going into 1990,
                       but with the tough non-con schedule KU may not match
                       last year's 4 wins.
    
    7. Missouri        The Tigers have an explosive passing game, but not
                       much of a ground game and a Swiss-cheese defense.
    
    8. Kansas State    No comment.
    
    
    Joe 

re: -1

No comment unitll I see the results of Nebraska, Oklahoma, and
Colorado's first 4 games or so.

Of course, as a Nebraska fan, I have much more optimism for the Huskers
than 3rd in the conference. But I wont predict yet.

Nebraska Marty

    Yesterday Tom Osborne announced that they were Officially putting 
    
    Terry Rogers jersy (#20) back into retirement. He said that Terry
    
    just had to much pain in his knee to continue playing and that he
    
    was going to take a medical hardship year to maintain his 
    
    scholarship. Maybe some day the huskers will again have the 
    
    opportunity to bring the jersy out of retirement for Terrys son.
    
    Terry was a terrific benifit to the husker squad, and he will
    
    be greatly missed.
    
    Go Huskers

Too bad about Terry Rodgers.

He was the blue-chip halfback recruit son of Johnny Rodgers, the former
Nebraska Wingback Heisman Trophy winner who played during the Huskers
back-to-back National Championships of '70 and '71.

When Nebraska won the recruiting battle for Terry, the Huskers decided
to bring Johnny's number 20 out of retirement for son Terry. It looked
like Terry would have a promising career at NU.

But the Knee thing has sidelined it for now. Hope he can come back. And
most of all I hope the kid gets an education !!!

Nebraska Marty

    Overall, the Huskers did not look inpressive in their season opener
    vs Baylor. 13 - zip Nebraska.
    
    Both teams blew chances. Or should I say Nebraska blew 2 chances inside
    the 5 while Baylor blew 1.
    
    Nebraska's young offense looked quite rusty. However they do look very
    talent laden. They may be able to put it together by the time they hit
    another tought opponent. Baylor was no Florida State buy they werent a
    Kansas State either. The Bears D is a good one.
    
    Mike Grant had a nice touch on his passes. He looks like he has
    potential to be a good field general also. Scott Turner is one awesome
    back. Definately better than Flowers, and Flowers is good.
    
    Coach Osborne said that backup fullback Lance Lewis (Sounds like a
    comic book character) could be Nebraska's best fullback EVER. Now that
    is an amazing statement considering 2 factors:
    
    	1. S.F. 49ers Rathman played at Nebraska.
    	2. Osborne hardly every gives out praise like that.
    
    Now if Osborne would just throw to his backs a little more...
    
    Anyway, the Huskers offense only has 2 return starters and they are
    both offensive lineman. By the way, 3 of NU's starting offensive line
    are walk-on's.
    
    It also looked like NU has some wingbacks who have a little quickness
    also. If only coach would just throw a little more...
    
    Scott Turner is going to be one great back. He also has the size to
    go onto the pro's. This guy is going to get a lot of attention. Bet
    on it.
    
    The Husker defense looked real good. NU has some horses on D this
    year. They look mean and they look tuff!!! Cooper (free safety) and
    Deaf tackle Walker look particuraly good. Linbacker Tyrance was also
    impressive.
    
    By the way, When Baylor funbled inside the NU 5 after their only
    sustained drive of the day, the replay clearly showed the funble
    was caused by a helmet shot to the ball by Tyrance.
    
    Baylor dident throw much but they attempted to throw more than the
    stats reveal. NU had 5 sacks. The NU defensive line was all over the
    Baylor QB.
    
    In summary, the Huskers offense if VERY young and needs much fine
    tuneing. However they are loaded with talent. The potential is there
    to be VERY good. Time will tell.
    
    The NU defense if experienced and fast. We'll have to see how they
    handle a pro set passing offense though.
    
    GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED 
    
    Nebraska Marty

    
    You can bet Dr. Tom will be a little more selective next time he's
    looking for a Soft touch to begin the season. Those Baylor boy's did
    some serious hitting on the Cornholer's from Lincoln. One or two less
    mistake's and  the Bear's would've been the one's celebrating.
    
    Cadzilla

    IMO the Baylor-NU game was pretty entertaining despite the lack of
    scoring.  I thought NU's inability to move the ball consistently was
    more because of Baylor's tough, hard-hitting defense, although the NU
    offense is quite green.  It seemed that Osborne kept the offense fairly
    basic, with only 8 pass attempts and not much of the perimeter option
    game.  
    
    One thing that should be brought up is that NU recovered 2 first-half
    fumbles by Baylor, but the ballcarrier was ruled down.  Replays clearly
    showed that the ballcarrier was not down and it should've been NU's
    ball.  
    
    In other Big-8 games:
    
    OSU    10            #15 Virginia  59
    Tulsa   3                Kansas    10
    
    Don't forget that CU plays this THURSDAY at 6 MDT on ESPN against
    Stanford.  This should be CU's only non-conference breather.
    
    In this week's AP poll, CU dropped from 5th to 6th and NU dropped from
    7th to 10th.
    
    Joe

>         ... I thought NU's inability to move the ball consistently was
>    more because of Baylor's tough, hard-hitting defense, although the NU
>    offense is quite green.  It seemed that Osborne kept the offense fairly
>    basic, with only 8 pass attempts and not much of the perimeter option
>    game.  
    
I agree. It was very obvious that Dr. Tom was being even more conservative
than normal with his "green" offense. I watched the tape again and with 
this in mind it was clear to see that NU had supperior talent. We will see
how long it takes for this "green" offense to mature. It's loaded with
potential. It could make for another great NU-CU clash.

>    One thing that should be brought up is that NU recovered 2 first-half
>    fumbles by Baylor, but the ballcarrier was ruled down.  Replays clearly
>    showed that the ballcarrier was not down and it should've been NU's
>    ball.  

I wasent gonna say anything about it but since someone else did...

These were both bad calls. re: -2 with this in mind I think it should be
that with a few correct calls this could have been a normal NU blowout.
And I stress the "could have" !!! Baylor is gonna give some other good
teams some fits this year.

Nebraska Marty

    Being a Big Red fan I sure was glad to see them slip by Baylor.
    They have some awesome talent but my concern is the conservative
    nature of NU offense.  Osborne has not yet learned that a quarterback
    can throw the ball every once in a while. This will always limit their
    chances for a national championship.  Marty, your p-name says it all.
    
    John R.

    re: My own note a few back...
    
    It's Scott Baldwin, not Scott "Turner". Dont know where I got that.
    Guess maybee I was hoping for the spirit of Turner Gill to reutrn to
    Lincoln    ;^)
    
    Nebraska Marty

    What's the story on Baldwin?
    
    Where's he from and who recruited him?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bob V.
    

    Baldwin?
    
    He's from Piano, Ohio.   Recruited by a guy named Steinway.  He
    may be a key contributer.  He's an upright guy.  He's cut from the
    classic mold, but he's tough when his bach's to the wall....
    
    JD

   GOOD GRIEF!!!!!!!

    JD, you forgot that Baldwin played his college days in Minnesota.  He
    really excelled in the home games at the MetroNome.
    
    Dan

    
    Baldwin works for Apple in the off-season.
    

    OSU's defense may be finally improving this year.  Lasted week's
    game against Tulsa the Cowboys gave up only 159 yards with 83
    of that being in the air against 4 year starting QB TJ Rubley.
    In the past three games against TU they gave up a total of 888
    yards and 6 TDs.
    
    Offensively, OSU should have a more experienced line than last
    year.  With speedster, Curtis Mayfield and Brent Parker as
    receivers and several good RBs they should start to show some
    productive offensive--that is, if QB Chris Smith can run the
    show.  He has been backing up Mike Gundy until MG graduated
    last year.  (Gundy is still around since he's been hired as
    an offensive coach).  Smith has good size for a QB and a
    strong, accurate arm.  He seems to have a cool head but may
    lack Gundy's scrambling and improvising abilities.  It's hard
    to tell since Smith only played the last few minutes of any
    games until last week.  In his first start, against TU last
    week, his stats looked fairly good: 9 completions out of 18
    with no interceptions for 60 yards.  The Cowboys kept it on
    the ground mostly, with 230 yards.
    
    This week will be a better test: at Florida
    
    Cowboy
    

    The Buffs play a mediocre Stanford team tonight with a decent offense,
    but the only question is how much CU will win by.  I think the Buffs
    will more than cover the 20-point spread.  It will be interesting to
    see if CU continues to pass the ball more, how Hagan looks throwing the
    ball, and how Bienemy does in his first game.
    
    A good game featuring a Big-8 team this Saturday is OU at UCLA.  I
    believe it is on ABC, but not sure.  Yes, the Sooners are still on
    probation, but can be on TV this season.
    
    Joe
                                       

    
    Halftime score Stanford 14 Colorado 0.
    
    CU is going to have to hustle to cover the spread.
    

    Any new scores to report on the CU game??
    
    
    
    

    14-14 with 11:38 to go
    
    #86 for colarado just dropped a 35 yd td pass wide open on 3rd down.
    
    cu missed a long field goal.
    
    Tom

    
    More More........Sounds like a good game,but like CU is making this
    game harder than it should be.
    
    
    Drewski
    
    
    
    

    Final CU 21 Stanford 17

    Sanford leads 17-14 with 3 down ..... 
    Wait...
    Colo first down at the Sanford 3...
    not too much time left...
    Officials call for a measurment...
    inches short of a first down
    4 down and inches... 2 yard line...
    The play...
    QB sneak...
    First down!!!!!!!!!!!! for Colorado... 33 seconds  left..
    officials want a measurment ... first down!!!!!
    WOW what a game....
    time out...
    Colorado with 2 time outs remaining... Ball on the Sanford 1 yard
    line...
    The hike... 
    Hemingway... up the middle.. 1/2 yard...  time out Col.
    30 seconds left...second down...
    Hand off Hemingway again... no gain time out COl....
    third down... 1/2 yard to go... will Col. go for the tie or the win...
    22 seconds left...
    COL will go for the win....
    The ball is snapped...
    Fake hand off to Hemingway..   the QB throws up a pass to the TE...
    incompleted......
    fourth down and Col is going for it...
    QB hands off to (enemie sp) and scores!@!!!!
    21-17   with 12 seconds left to play....
    
    What a game....
    
    Final... COl. 21 Sanford 17... 
    
    REK
    

    
    Sounds like a close one..................Hope CU get It Together...
    
    
    
    Drewski
    
    
    

    
    Thanks REK,
    
    That was a Great Play by Play call, We don't have cable here.
    that we can get too.
    
    P.S REK you should think about trying out for a play by play
        analyst..I could see exactly what you were saying.
    
    Drewski
    
    

    
    Gee that mediocre bunch of guy's at Stanford almost pulled it 
    out! I caught the last couple of minutes, which turned out to be
    about 15 minutes actual time! Bienemey looks good, could be a 
    Heisman candidate.
    
    
    
    
    Steve

    Well, a disappointing showing, but CU showed some adversity in coming
    back from the 14-0 deficit.  Stanford was showing some different looks
    on defense with a stacked front, daring the Buffs to throw.  The
    intriguing aspect of the game is that Stanford was able to stop the CU
    running up the middle AND on the perimeter.  CU's passing game is
    getting better but still needs quite a bit of work.  3 or 4 of Hagan's
    passes were dropped, the most prominent of which was the drop by a
    wide-open Rico Smith at the goal line when is was 14-14.
    
    Overall, the defense had a good game.  On Stanford's 2 first-quarter
    scoring drives, they only had to go 20 yards and 1 yard.  After it was
    14-0, Stanford only got 1 first down until their field-goal drive late
    in the 4th quarter.  CU held Stanford to 75 yards rushing and outgained
    Stanford 432 to 230 in total offense.
    
    Penalties and turnovers are still hurting the Buffs. 
    
    CU definitely needs to step it up a notch when they go into Champain
    next week.  After this showing last night, the Buffs deserve to drop 2
    or 3 notches in the polls IMO.
    
    Joe

Colorado's first 2 games brings up some questions:

	Is Colorado Over-Rated ???

	Is Colorado not Over-Rated and it's just that everyone is just
	 gunning extra hard for them ???

	How good/bad is Stanford ???

	How good/bad is Tennessee ???

	Colorado is supposed to be better than last year because of
	 experience and returning starters. If this years expectations
	 are based on last year - then was last years season really 
	 just a Cinderella season then ???

	Is the Colorado team pressing to try to meet expectations ???

	Has the Colorado team lost last years mental edge (aka - SAL) ???

	Is this just early season bugs that Colorado will work out ???

	Was it just that Colorado has rarely ever been a 21 point favorite
	 and they were over-confident ???

	What will happen if they get behind 14-0 to a powerhouse ???

Only time will tell !!!

And what about Nebraska ???

	Is Nebraska Over-Rated considering their inexperience on offense ???

	Is Baylor any good ???

	Will Nebraska's young offense gell with experience ???

	Nebrska's defense looked very good against Baylor. But will it
	 hold up against a passing team (aka - FSU) ???

	Since we know the Huskers will go to the Orange Bowl this year,
	 will they win it ???   (Just a little joke you guys !!!)

Only time will tell !!!

And what about Oklahome ???

	?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
	?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
	?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
	?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
	?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
	?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
	?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
	?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Only time will tell !!!

Nebraska Marty

   >>	Is Colorado Over-Rated ???

        No, but just because they have the talent, they still must do more 
        than just show up.
 
   >>	Is the Colorado team pressing to try to meet expectations ???

        I think they might be, especially Hagan, being a Heisman candidate.

   >>	Has the Colorado team lost last years mental edge (aka - SAL) ???

        The Sal factor may be gone, but the Buffs are driven this year by:
         1) To become the first CU team to repeat as Big-8 champs
         2) Wanting to win the national championship after coming 
            within 1 win of it last year.
         3) Prove last year was no fluke and they belong among the nation's
            elite college football teams.

   >>	Is this just early season bugs that Colorado will work out ???

        I certainly hope so.  The passing game will go through some growing 
        pains, but they must cut down on turnovers & penalties.  One of the
        keys to last year's success was they only had 13 turnovers all season.

   >>	Was it just that Colorado has rarely ever been a 21 point favorite
	 and they were over-confident ???
 
        Yes, I definitely think so.

   >>	What will happen if they get behind 14-0 to a powerhouse ???

        Good question, but the smart thing to do would be to stick with their
        game plan unless it's late in the game.

   >>	Is Nebraska Over-Rated considering their inexperience on offense ???

        For this early in the year, I say yes.  If they were playing a top-20
        team last week, NU would be 0-1.

   >>	Will Nebraska's young offense gell with experience ???

        Without a doubt.  They will have plenty time to gel with their schedule,
        and they will undoubtedly go into the CU game 8-0.

   >>	Since we know the Huskers will go to the Orange Bowl this year,
	 will they win it ???   (Just a little joke you guys !!!)

        HA HA!!

   >>   And what about Oklahome ???

	I think they will be much improved, and they are on ABC tomorrow at
        1:30 against UCLA.

   >>   Only time will tell !!!

        The best answer to all these questions!


Joe

    CU's offense should improve with each game.  When you look at
    how many of Oklahoma's early games that were close and that
    they should have lost then its obvious that CU has the same
    problem.  It takes a few games to get the timing down in the
    Wishbone and probably makes it more difficult when they're trying
    to make Hagan a passing QB at the same time.
    
    Cowboy  

    Is Colorado overrated?
    
    Yep - they were last year, and they are again this year.   They
    suffer from 'Bronco-itis' - fanatical fans, lots of hype, but fish
    bones in the throat when it matters.
    
    JD

re: .476

The Colorado fans answers...

Disclaimer: This is meant to be humorous. The OBVIOUS overstatement
            should convince all readers that THIS IS A JOKE !!!

>	Is Colorado Over-Rated ???

	  Are you kidding. They are under-rated. They should be rated
	  number 1 in the universe. Everyone knows the Buffs are gods !!!

>	Is Colorado not Over-Rated and it's just that everyone is just
>	 gunning extra hard for them ???

          Obviously !!!

>	How good/bad is Stanford ???

          The way they played Colorado, they should be rated number 3.

>	How good/bad is Tennessee ???

          They were lucky to be even close in the Colorado game. However
          they should be rated a distant 2nd !!!

>	Colorado is supposed to be better than last year because of
>	 experience and returning starters. If this years expectations
>	 are based on last year - then was last years season really 
>	 just a Cinderella season then ???

           NO, NO, you got it all wrong. The whole countries expextations
           of the Buffs have NOTHING to do with last year. Everyone knows
           that CU has THE most talent and the BEST coach in the universe.

>	Is the Colorado team pressing to try to meet expectations ???

           NO, they are totally relaxed !!! Remember they played the
           numbers 2 and 3 teams in the nation the first 2 games.

>	Has the Colorado team lost last years mental edge (aka - SAL) ???

           Aw come on. We all know that half these guys dont know what
           the word mental means. Exept for the entire CU team. I think
           every starter is a Road Scholar aint they ???

>	Is this just early season bugs that Colorado will work out ???

           Bugs, what bugs, where's the Raid !!!

>	Was it just that Colorado has rarely ever been a 21 point favorite
>	 and they were over-confident ???

           Geez, the pre-game spread means nothing. The oddsmakers know 
           that CU is the best college football team ever, even better
           than the great Nebraska and Oklahoma national champions of past
           years, they just do this to sucker people into betting the
           mortgage.

>	What will happen if they get behind 14-0 to a powerhouse ???

           Inconcieveable Unbelievable Unspellable and not Possible

> Only time will tell !!!

           Time ??? Oh yea, it's lunch time.

And what about Nebraska ???

>	Is Nebraska Over-Rated considering their inexperience on offense ???

           Absalutely !!! The Bugeaters are over-rated every year. They 
           should something like number, uh, year, number 50 or so.

	Is Baylor any good ???

           Baylor should be rated about number 120 or so. Just think what
           problem Nebraska would have with number 3 rated Stanford. 
           Probably something like Sanford 55 and NU 3.

>	Will Nebraska's young offense gell with experience ???

           The only "gell" they will ever have in on their greasy heads !!!

>	Nebrska's defense looked very good against Baylor. But will it
>	 hold up against a passing team (aka - FSU) ???

           Nebraska sucks period !!! Dosent matter that they have NEVER
           been on probation even though the NCAA has gone thru the
           program with a fine-toothed comb recently, we just hate them.

>	Since we know the Huskers will go to the Orange Bowl this year,
>	 will they win it ???   (Just a little joke you guys !!!)

           Nebraska in the Orange Bowl ??? They have never been there
           in history and never will be.

Only time will tell !!!

           Time, oh yea, it's time for desert.

And what about Oklahome ???

           Oklahoma ??? Oh it dosent matter that they creamed us for 5000
           seasons in a row. We beat them last year when half the team was
           injured and now THAT monkey is totally off our back. The Okie's
           are no problem. Cant that Nebraska Marty spell anything ???

Only time will tell !!!

           Geez I'm getting full.


Nebraska Marty in Jest

re: .476

The Nebraska fans answers...

Disclaimer: This is meant to be humorous. The OBVIOUS overstatement
            should convince all readers that THIS IS A JOKE !!!

>	Is Colorado Over-Rated ???

           Without a doubt. This season will show that last season was
           a complete and utter joke and CU played over their head in
           every game because of "you know who" (cant say THAT name or the
           CU people will have a cow) and they are the scum of the earth.

>	Is Colorado not Over-Rated and it's just that everyone is just
>	 gunning extra hard for them ???

           What ??? Why try harder for a bunch of no-named scumm bucket
           nose pickers who wade in moutain pond scum ???

>	How good/bad is Stanford ???

           Stanford is terrible. They should not be in the top 100. NU
           would beat them by 60 points with the second team !!!

>	How good/bad is Tennessee ???

           They are from the south. They must be even worse than Stanford.

>	Colorado is supposed to be better than last year because of
>	 experience and returning starters. If this years expectations
>	 are based on last year - then was last years season really 
>	 just a Cinderella season then ???

           Obviously !!!


>	Is the Colorado team pressing to try to meet expectations ???

           They can never meet this years expectations because CU sucks !!!

>	Has the Colorado team lost last years mental edge (aka - SAL) ???

           Of course. That is the ONLY thing that gave them any success
           in last years lucky season !!! They are doomed this year. And
           Colorado fans should not even think about the next year, unless
           they like nightmares.

>	Is this just early season bugs that Colorado will work out ???

           Bugs, they got bugs alright, right up the... (Censored for the
           benifit of our family readers)

>	Was it just that Colorado has rarely ever been a 21 point favorite
>	 and they were over-confident ???

           What kind of Moron would make the Colorado Clippers a 21 point
           favorite againse ANYONE ???

>	What will happen if they get behind 14-0 to a powerhouse ???

           Try 35 point. Against the Might Nebraska Huskers that is, this
           November 3rd !!!

> Only time will tell !!!

           Time ??? Oh yea, I think I'll go steal the Cu fans lunch.

And what about Nebraska ???

>	Is Nebraska Over-Rated considering their inexperience on offense ???

           No way man !!! Nebraska is under-rated every year. In fact, the
           Huskers have had the best team on the field every year since the
           back-to-back national championships of '70 and '71. It's just
           that the refs, an NCAA plot, a Russion plot, and God have taken
           it away from us every year.

	Is Baylor any good ???

           Oh, Baylor is definately a quality team. Best defense in the
           nation, behind the Huskers that is, and they should be rated
           number 2.

>	Will Nebraska's young offense gell with experience ???

           Gell ??? They are already the best in the universe !!!

>	Nebrska's defense looked very good against Baylor. But will it
>	 hold up against a passing team (aka - FSU) ???

           Heck, are you kidding. Baylor was one of the best passing
           teams around. We sacked them 5 times then they were afraid
           to pass so they ran into out sky high corn wall !!!

>	Since we know the Huskers will go to the Orange Bowl this year,
>	 will they win it ???   (Just a little joke you guys !!!)

           Aw, dont be a silly willy. Of course we will win the Orange
           Bowl over Notre Dame and the national championship. We want
           ND just because thats who CREAMED the Colorado Clippers in
           last years Orange Bowl that we let CU go to.

Only time will tell !!!

           Time ??? Time is no factor in Nebraska. Everything has been
           the same here for the last 15 centuries.

And what about Oklahome ???

           Probation U sucks PERIOD !!! They are out of our hair now
           anyway now that the world knows how much they CHEAT !!!
           Not to mention rapes in the dorms, shootings, coke ...

Only time will tell !!!

           Time dosent need to tell us anything. The Huskers are THE
           greatest !!!

Nebraska Marty in Jest (Not really, I believe in everyting in this note
                        with all my heart !!!!)   ;^)   

re: .476

The Oklahoma fans answers...

Disclaimer: This is meant to be humorous. The OBVIOUS overstatement
            should convince all readers that THIS IS A JOKE !!!

>	Is Colorado Over-Rated ???

           Duuhhhhh, we just want Switzer back !!!
           All the radio stations accress the country should play more
           Boomer Sooner !!!

>	Is Colorado not Over-Rated and it's just that everyone is just
>	 gunning extra hard for them ???

           Duuhhhhh, we just want Switzer back !!!
           All the radio stations accress the country should play more
           Boomer Sooner !!!

>	How good/bad is Stanford ???

           Duuhhhhh, we just want Switzer back !!!
           All the radio stations accress the country should play more
           Boomer Sooner !!!

>	How good/bad is Tennessee ???

           Duuhhhhh, we just want Switzer back !!!
           All the radio stations accress the country should play more
           Boomer Sooner !!!

>	Colorado is supposed to be better than last year because of
>	 experience and returning starters. If this years expectations
>	 are based on last year - then was last years season really 
>	 just a Cinderella season then ???

           Duuhhhhh, we just want Switzer back !!!
           All the radio stations accress the country should play more
           Boomer Sooner !!!


>	Is the Colorado team pressing to try to meet expectations ???

           Duuhhhhh, we just want Switzer back !!!
           All the radio stations accress the country should play more
           Boomer Sooner !!!

>	Has the Colorado team lost last years mental edge (aka - SAL) ???

           Duuhhhhh, we just want Switzer back !!!
           All the radio stations accress the country should play more
           Boomer Sooner !!!

>	Is this just early season bugs that Colorado will work out ???

           Duuhhhhh, we just want Switzer back !!!
           All the radio stations accress the country should play more
           Boomer Sooner !!!

>	Was it just that Colorado has rarely ever been a 21 point favorite
>	 and they were over-confident ???

           Duuhhhhh, we just want Switzer back !!!
           All the radio stations accress the country should play more
           Boomer Sooner !!!

>	What will happen if they get behind 14-0 to a powerhouse ???

           Duuhhhhh, we just want Switzer back !!!
           All the radio stations accress the country should play more
           Boomer Sooner !!!

> Only time will tell !!!

           Duuhhhhh, we just want Switzer back !!!
           All the radio stations accress the country should play more
           Boomer Sooner !!!

And what about Nebraska ???

>	Is Nebraska Over-Rated considering their inexperience on offense ???

           Duuhhhhh, we just want Switzer back !!!
           All the radio stations accress the country should play more
           Boomer Sooner !!!

	Is Baylor any good ???

           All the radio stations accress the country should play more
           Boomer Sooner !!!
           Duuhhhhh, we just want Switzer back !!!

>	Will Nebraska's young offense gell with experience ???

           Duuhhhhh, we just want Switzer back !!!
           All the radio stations accress the country should play more
           Boomer Sooner !!!

>	Nebrska's defense looked very good against Baylor. But will it
>	 hold up against a passing team (aka - FSU) ???

           Duuhhhhh, we just want Switzer back !!!
           All the radio stations accress the country should play more
           Boomer Sooner !!!

>	Since we know the Huskers will go to the Orange Bowl this year,
>	 will they win it ???   (Just a little joke you guys !!!)

           Duuhhhhh, we just want Switzer back !!!
           All the radio stations accress the country should play more
           Boomer Sooner !!!

Only time will tell !!!

           Duuhhhhh, we just want Switzer back !!!
           All the radio stations accress the country should play more
           Boomer Sooner !!!

And what about Oklahome ???

           Duuhhhhh, we just want Switzer back !!!
           All the radio stations accress the country should play more
           Boomer Sooner !!!

Only time will tell !!!

           Duuhhhhh, we just want Switzer back !!!
           All the radio stations accress the country should play more
           Boomer Sooner !!!

Nebraska Marty in Jest

    
    	Better not quit your day job.
    
    	Claybone

    
    	Claybone:
    
     You'd think he could find a better way to waste KO's money than
    that useless BS.
    
    Cadzilla

    re: last 2
    
    Did it on lunch hour. Get a personality, get a sense of humor,
    Get a life !!!
    
    Sick of you picky, whiny, super senditive Buff fans. Geez, I tore up
    NU fans just as much. Just trying to have a little fun. Is it in you
    to have some too ???
    
    Nebraska Marty

    
    Hell boy Could care less about CU. Being on your lunch does not give
    you any priv to write anything you wish. Get real, don't take everything
    so damn personal. As I've been lead to believe bashin each other is 
    part of this here conference , just ask the Saw man. 
    
    Cadzilla

    Hey Saw Man, is bashin each other a part of this conference ???
    
    ;^)
    
    Nebraska Marty

    
  
  >  Did it on lunch hour. Get a personality, get a sense of humor,
  
     I've got a sense of humor.  I sense you ain't funny unless you
     count looks.
    
  >   Get a life !!!
   
     Got one.  Thanks anyway.
     
  >  Sick of you picky, whiny, super senditive Buff fans.
   
     Don't puke on the carpet.  Use the men's room.
     
     Claybone

    Ahhhhh yes. Another day of general and personal mud-slinging here
    in the Sports Notesfile. What would we do without this to brighten
    up our days???   ;^)
    
    Nebraska Marty

    Maybee we could start a new note. We could call it:
    
    	Ask the Saw Man.
    
    Nebraska Marty

>
>    Maybee we could start a new note. We could call it:
>    
>    	Ask the Saw Man.
    

Sure, why not.   I know answers to a lot of questions (in fact I'm 
vicious at full contact Trivial Pursuit), and the ones I don't have
answers for, I'd just make up answers...

Hey, sounds neat, let's do it!

'Saw

    re: .483
    
    Hey Claybone, I guess this hurts my contract negotiations with the
    Comedy Corner, huh !!!
    
    Not a good comedian,
    
    ...but a die hard Husker Fan,
    
    Nebraska Marty

    
    Yo Marty
    
      Who's the Cornholers soft touch this week?
    
    Cadzilla

    re: -1
    
    See note 27.369 for the Huskers schedule over the next 6 years.
    
    Nebraska Marty

    WHAT !!! No CU at Illinois predictions ???????????
    
    Nebraska Marty

    
    re-2
    
    	Here's one for you Marty
    
    
    	nu 60 minn. 3
    
    
    	Uncle tom runs it up on another soft touch.
    
    Cadzilla

    re: -1
    
    I'm the first to admit that NU's schedule STINKS !!!
    See not 27.370
    
    Nebraska Marty

    
    re-1
    
      Glad to see an honest fan. It would seem to me that Osborne would
    want a few tough games before he gets into the Big 8 schedule. Even
    though it's been nu and ou for so many years, one of the little
    6 could sneak up on him sometime. 
    
    Cadzilla 

    re: -1
    
    Thru the '80s NU had teams such as Penn State, Florida State, UCLA,
    Auburn, etc... on the schedule. It has only been in the past 2 years
    that this whimpy schedule stuff started.
    
    By the way, one of the little 6 already did sneak up on NU and OU.
    Colorado last year. We shall see if they can change the Big-8 football
    situation into a Big-3 Little 5 for more than a year or 2. Time will
    tell.
    
    I would make a prediction for the CU/Illinois game but I dont want to
    doom the team I pick to win to a sure loss !!!    ;^)
    
    Nebraska Marty

    Not a prediction but a statement.  If they don't stop turning
    the ball over, they won't come close to the season they had
    last year.  The next two weeks are going to be a good indicator
    of how good a team they are.  Illinois was thumped last year
    by the Buffs at Boulder.  They'll be looking to avenge that loss
    this year at their home field.  UT is looking good this year and
    should be a much tougher test than last year.......especially
    since the game is in Austin.
    
    Claybone

    I predict that CU will be playing a Division 1 school.  How about
    Nubrasca.  Who are they playing---Northern Iowa Dental Technicians.
    
    Hey Marty, is it going to be nationally televised?
    
    Jan and Ed in Denver

    re.502 - NU will be fillng a cavity in Northern Iowa Dental
    Technician's schedule!!!
    
    We predict CU over Illinois by at least two touchdowns.  They are going
    to be serious this weekend, especially knowing that Nubrasca is in the
    meat of their pre-season schedule.
    
    Jan and Ed in Denver

    Re: 27.503
    
    What's your problem ?  Do you really think Marty has a say-so on who
    Neb plays ?
    
    You CU fans remind me of skinny nerds who lift weights for a month and
    think they are bad-asses.  When you sustain a level of success like
    Neb. then start bashing.  One good year does not make a dynasty.
    
    GO BIG RED!!!!
    

    Actually, Nebraska doesn't even play this week.  They play Minnesota
    the 22nd and Oregon State the week after.  This year's NU non-con
    schedule really isn't quite as bad as some people make it out to be,
    with 3 schools from big-time conferences and only one Division II (or
    is it Division I-AA) school in Northern Illinois.  But on the other
    hand the NU schedule does leave quite a bit to be desired when you look 
    at CU's, OU's, or Kansas' non-conference games.
    
    Joe               

re: .502,503

Dear Jan and Ed in Denver

Many CU fans have reached a high state of arrogance after only 1 season
of success and after only 2 wins over Nebraska in the entire decade of the
80's. Plus, the CU team is not playing good ball right now. Hardly a basis
for arrogance.

A team and it's fans should carry arrogance (The good kind*) after it has
proven itself year after year. CU had a very good year LAST YEAR but has
yet to prove that they can sustain it. They may or may not be able to, I
don't know.

Actually, the CU HATE of Nebraska is quite illogical. Consider this:

	Nebraska has NEVER been under NCAA probation.
	Oklahoma has been under probation TWICE since the mid '70s.

	Oklahoma has many more Big-8 championships than Nebraska.

	Nebraska has defeated CU something like 22 times in 24 years.
	Oklahoma beat CU something like 24 years straight until last
	 year. (Correct me if I'm wrong on this)

Oklahoma has been more of a thorn in the side of CU than Nebraska has,
yet McArtney set up Nebraska as his "designated rival" the minute he
took over as CU coach. The CU fans HATE Nebraska, yet they sort of 
maybe dislike Oklahoma a little. Their fans do not get up for the
Okie's near as much as for NU. It does not make much sense.

I'm not whining, I'm merely stating a fact. I live in Colorado and I know
how the CU fans and media react first hand. They beat OU and it's a big
feat to them. But they beat NU and it's like the Red Sea has just been
parted and the Egyptians (NU and their fans) have drowned.

WHY ???

There is one thing I know for sure. And that is that when CU comes to
Lincoln the sea of Red in Lincoln will be up for it big time. CU will be
walking into a noise pit of 76,000 crazed fans just like NU did last year at
CU (I guess CU's stadium holds only 55,000 or so). And you cannot tell me it
makes no difference. Plus the spirit of SAL wont be driving the Buffs this
year. I don't think CU fans have much to be arrogant about YET. You though
it was hard to beat Nebraska LAST year (and it was of monumental difficulty)
this year will be even harder.

By the way, did you know that Nebraska's Memorial Stadium as sold out EVERY
game since 1962. Every time a game is played at Nebraska a new NCAA 
attendance record is broken.

Proud of the Huskers winning record, character, fan loyalty, and longevity
of success,

Nebraska Marty

* By "the good kind" I mean the type of arrogant attitude that winning
  year after year gives a team. Such as the Celtics, Lakers, old Yankee's,
  Canadians, UCLA during it's basketball dynasty etc...  I'm speaking
  of the arrogant attitude that says, "were the best and have proven it
  year after year, it's a mistake when we loose and you are up against
  it because you are playing US !!!"

    Northern Illinois is a Division 1-A independent and a former member of
    the Mid America Conference.
    
    John

    
    > This year's NU non-con
    > schedule really isn't quite as bad as some people make it out to be,
    > with 3 schools from big-time conferences and only one Division II (or
    > is it Division I-AA) school in Northern Illinois.
    
    Snicker, snicker... Are you saying this in jest?  Northwestern plays in
    a big-time conference, too.  For a big-time program, the schedules
    don't get any easier than Nebraska's.  It's every bit as bad as people
    make it out to be.  Unfortunately for Nebraska, with computer evaluations 
    and strength-of-schedule statistics around nowadays, the pollsters are 
    getting wise to this kind of blatant padding.  Sports Illustrated said 
    that they weren't really sure how good Nebraska would be, but they 
    couldn't in good conscience rank them very high because of the
    schedule.  And, of course, Nebraska is living proof that the easy
    schedule might get you in or near the top 10 every year, but it don't
    help you in winning the Orange Bowl...
    
    Another big test for Oklahoma this weekend with Pitt at home.  It'd be
    reassuring to see them stuff another passing offense (contrary to
    popular belief, OU's number one problem in the past has been stopping,
    not executing, a passing offense).  If they can pull this one out, a 
    10-1 season is a definite possibility.  Coming in the last year of a
    probation, I'd take it.  (Hell, some of OU's best teams ever have been
    the ones on probation, like the 21-0-1 teams in '73-'74.)
    
    Boomer Sooner,
    glenn
     

    Boomer Sooner Glenn,
    
        If every Sooner player who got in trouble with the law ended up in
    jail the prison team would be Oklahoma's best football team.:):)
    
    GO BIG RED!!!!

    
    Re -.1:
    
    You better believe it!
    
    glenn
    

re .504

>    You CU fans remind me of skinny nerds who lift weights for a month and
>    think they are bad-asses.  When you sustain a level of success like
>    Neb. then start bashing.  One good year does not make a dynasty.

	Oh reeeeeeeeeeeeeeally?  Wanna work out sometime?  We'll bash
	any time we feel like it padnah.  I didn't know that the
	team you happen to root for has to have played good ball for
	20+ years in order to qualify to bash.

re. Marty

	I think part of the reason for the dislike of NU is because
	of what happened last year.  They could not take the loss
	with class.  They whined about a call or two and yapped about
	the best team not winning.  To top it all off, they criticized
	the Buffs for their personal handling of Sal's death.  

	Regardless of your definition of arrogance, OU is not seen
	in the same light as NU because they don't spew nearly as
	much trash (not counting Bosworth).

>Plus the spirit of SAL wont be driving the Buffs this
>year. 

	Why don't YOU give this a break.  I'm getting tired of you
	bringing this up as if it were the only reason the Buffs
	beat the mighty Huskers last year.  

>Proud of the Huskers winning record, character, fan loyalty, and longevity
>of success,

	Hey, that's great.............

Claybone

    Marty, I think you are a great NU fan.  You are fiercely loyal to your
    team, knowledgeable about the team and the conference, and you have a
    good sense of humor.  I hope that you took the note from Jan and Ed in
    the spirit in which it was written--playful teasing.
    
    If more NU fans were like Marty, I doubt that there would be the hatred
    that exists in the hearts of CU fans for Nebraska.  It's true, the NU
    teams over the last many decades have been great and the NU fans have
    every reason to be proud.
    
    But what is unique about NU fans (as opposed to OU fans) is that they
    have historically not been gracious winners.  They have consistently
    "rubbed their fellow Big 8 opponents' noses into it".
    
    The thing I loved the best about the CU/Tennessee game was that
    afterwards as we were going out to the parking lot, we passed rabid
    rabid rabid Tennessee fans, all painted up in Orange----and across the
    board they all graciously said "Y'all played a great game".   I am sure
    they would have said that if TN had won or if CU had won.  They are
    that kind of fans.
    
    CU fans don't "hate" Nebraska's football team--it's the fans, fans like
    the noter in .504.  Now that is a quintessential Nebraska fan.
    
    My closing comment--------You reap what you sow.  Learn to live with
    it.

re: .511

Claybone, I agree with some of your statements but disagree with some.

>	Oh reeeeeeeeeeeeeeally?  Wanna work out sometime?  We'll bash
>	any time we feel like it padnah.  I didn't know that the
>	team you happen to root for has to have played good ball for
>	20+ years in order to qualify to bash.

Thats fine, but you better have something very substantial to back it
up with because others dish out AT LEAST as good as they get.

>	I think part of the reason for the dislike of NU is because
>	of what happened last year.  They could not take the loss
>	with class.  They whined about a call or two and yapped about
>	the best team not winning.  To top it all off, they criticized
>	the Buffs for their personal handling of Sal's death.  

Last year may have aggrivated the situation. BUT the basic premis of
your theory is bull. CU fans have HATED Nebraska LONG before last year.
I can see some reason for it. Untill last year when the Huskers came
to Boulder for the anual wipe out, there would be about 20,000 CU fans
in the stands and about 30,000 NU fans in the stands. It was like a
Husker home game. But that just shows VERY strong fan support. That
shouldent be (and I dont think it is) the only reason CU hates NU.

>	Regardless of your definition of arrogance, OU is not seen
>	in the same light as NU because they don't spew nearly as
>	much trash (not counting Bosworth).

This is not a totally accurate observation by the CU fans.

By the way, thanks for giving me credit for my loyalty. Thats good to
hear from a CU fan.

re: a few back about NU's schedule

No excuse can be made for this year and last year. But up untill then
Nebraska has had good strong pre-Big-8 schedules. You cant knock it
much up untill last year.

re: .512

Thank you VERY much. Sometimes I do get carried away with it though.
You have to understand, Big Red fever is VERY powerful. Us Nebraskans
(and formar Nebraska residents in my case) are proud to a fault of
our ONLY team. We have no pro, and no other big college in the state.
I know that a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch. Believe me, the
majority of Husker fans are NOT as you describe.

EVERY young boy that grows up in Nebraska totally idolizes the Huskers.
Kids dream of growing up to be a Husker. On fall Saturday afternoons
the stores are virually empty because people hover around thier TV's
or radio's for the game. Home victories vs Oklahoma end with the goal
posts not only being torn down, but a giant parade downtown with them.
If you walk around downtown Lincoln before a game you see thousands of
people walking around ALL dressed in red. It's kind of like when a very
small high school makes the state tourny, everyone gets excited. The
state of Nebraska has nothing to be proud of outside of agriculture and
the Huskers are the rallying point. Much like the USA rallied around the
Olympic hockey team in 1980. Us Nebraska fans consider what has been
accomplished by the NU program as being VERY amazing when you consider
the very small population of the state and the northern proximity of the
state. There is even a highway named after the coach - the Osborne
Expresway. In short, we are proud as Hell of the Huskers - win or not.

I know where you are comming from. OU fans come into Lincoln and rub
our noses in it when they have beat Nu at Lincoln. Nu fans consider
OU fans bad winners just as CU fans consider Nu fans bad winners.
It's too bad because I believe that MOST NU and OU fans are not that
way. A few bad apples...

Nebraska Marty

    IMO most of the dislike for NU is probably because of NU's great
    success over the last 20 years.  The Huskers have been a perrennial
    powerhouse year-in and year-out without being on probation or having a
    bad image like OU or Miami.  People love to talk about "Irish
    tradition" crap, but Nebraska has one of the nation's most successful
    programs on the field over the 2 decades.  ND had 2 consecutive losing
    seasons a few short years ago; Nebraska has won at least 9 games for 21
    consecutive years and is one of only of 2 division I-A teams to win 40
    games in the last 4 years (Miami is the other).  People like to
    bad-mouth Big Red fans, but they are very well behaved compared to
    other college fans around the country.  For the most NU fans are very
    gracious losers and are among the best at traveling with their team on
    the road.  I recall NU fans giving the Buffs a standing ovation after
    NU had a hard-fought 17-7 victory over CU at Lincoln in 1985, and also
    after NU lost to CU 20-10 in Boulder in 1986.
    
    We CU fans consider it a big achievement to beat a perrenial winner
    like Nebraska, especially after all those terrible seasons in the early
    80's.  Also, alot of the dislike for NU has been spawned by McCartney
    making NU their designated "red-letter game", which I think is great
    since CU really didn't have a rival or a game they point to every year. 
    I don't think NU fans should take it as personal or a vendetta against
    their team, but as a tribute to their success on the gridiron. 
    McCartney seems to have achieved his goal of making NU their big rival,
    because the Huskers are already shooting for the Buffs this year, and
    they don't meet until November 3rd. 
    
    Joe
       

    re: marty;'s note of .513
    
    Marty, you are the kind of fan I am.  I love CU and will always love CU
    and will back my team always--win or lose.  That really is the easiest
    way for me to feel connected with the college that most of my family
    has attended for generations.
    
    But then there are the fans that are aggressive and are more motivated
    by humiliating the other team than by that love of their school and
    team.
    
    Sorry to sound so philosophical.  But I have run into a far too many of
    the latter type of fan--and usually they are dressed in RED
    
    Jan

    
    Anyone happen to have the scores of the Colorado-Nebraska and
    Colorado-Oklahoma games since 1962?  Thanks.
    
    Bob V.
    

    
    Marty,
    
    	The first part of my reply wasn't directed at you.  It
    	was aimed at the NU fan who didn't feel CU fans had
    	any room in here because CU hasn't maintained a high
    	level of play for 20+ years.  
    
    	Your loyalty was never in question.  The statement
    	"Hey, that's great....."  should have read  "I think
    	I'm getting a cavity from being fed this sugar coated
    	drivel".
    
    	For the most part, I'd say most *fans* are well behaved.
    	NU fans hold no distinction in this category.  
    
    	I never despised NU until last year after the CU-NU game
    	was over and the comments about calls, best team, and
    	Aunese's death/fraud were made.  Then when you chimed
    	in with your Aunese comments, well, let's just say I felt
    	strongly that you were in no position to make those comments
    	and that it was sour grapes on your part (as well as the
    	newspaper writers in Nebraska).  I didn't see any ghosts
    	out on the field tackling NU ball carriers or running CU's
    	offense.  It irks me that some NU fans are so *arrogant* to
    	think that CU never would have had such a good season without
    	some sort of divine intervention.
    
    	FWIW, I admire Tom Osborne and his program.  I can also understand
    	the fanaticism for NU football now that you've explained some
    	of the reasons (as far as Nebraskans are concerned).
    
    	Claybone

re: -1

No doubt there is now bad blood between NU and CU from * BOTH * sides
of the spectrum. It's not going to get settled here and I'm not going
to get into it now.

All I can say is - I cant wait for November 3rd. I'm working on tickets
to the game in Lincoln and I would drive the 600 miles one way just to
be a part of the Husker atmosphere in Lincoln that day.

Nebraska Marty

    Claybone,
    
             I think your comments were directed at me.  What I meant in my
    note was that the CU fans are going a little overboard in their
    comments regarding NU and their schedule.  Any noter is welcome here
    but to jump all over someone was uncalled for.  BTW I thought you were
    an OSU fan.
    
    Re: Sal
    
             He was a leader who led by example, and who never gave up his
    fight.  He became a rallying cry not for adv. but because he was truly
    loved and respected.  The media took a personal tragedy and made it a 
    media show so you can not fault CU.  I hope that they keep the memory
    of Sal in their minds and make him part of the CU school tradition. 
    BTW don't the Bears wear the intials "GSH" on their sleeves as a
    reminder of Halas ?
    
    No bones with you Claybone,
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    John,
    
    	They were.  But they main culprit of NU schedule bashing
    	is Mr. Brown (aka Cadzilla).  He's one of them U. of
    	Texas fans from way back.........."only two things come
    	from Texas"  :^)  )
    
    	Me?  An OSU fan?  Heh, heh...no way.  My pap-inlaw is
    	an Okie and I have to listen to how good OU and OSU
    	are for 4-5 months every year.  Damn near killed him
    	when Switzer left........
    
    	Claybone

    
    Thanks, Claywad
    
    	Yep you got it. I read the same BS about Sal and all the other
    crap flying round bout these two last year. Hope we don't have to read
    more of the same this year. NU's soft schedule will only effect them
    down the road when the Sooners come around. I don't think CU will be
    much of a test for them this year. From what I've seen of the
    Buttphaloes (tm) this year if they do not wake up soon they won't get
    past K.state.
    
    	Just my unbiased opinion!!
    
    Cadzilla
    
    PS
    
    Two things from Texas
    
    1. Running Back's (Earl Campbell,Billy Sims,Doak Walker,John David
    Crow,Donny Anderson,Thurman Thomas,TimBrown,MikeThomas,MercuryMorris,
    DuaneThomas,EricDickerson,CraigJames)
    
    2. Fastball Pitchers (NolanRyan,RogerClemens,GregSwindell,Monty
    Stratton)

    I have proof positive that NU fans are more loyal than CU fans.
    
    When a Cu fan gets cut he/she does not bleed gold.
    
    When a NU fan gets cut he/she bleeds HUSKER RED !!!
    
    Yaaaa Ha, Ha Ha, Ha Ha Ha Ha, Haaaaaa Yeeaaaaa !!!
    
    By the way, lets get real. As it stands now this note is sort of a
    minor conflict between Cu and NU fans. If all of us REALLY noted
    in here what we all REALLY felt, this would be an all out WAR !!!
    
    Lets just call it "diplomatic nogotiations"    ;^)
    
    Nebraska Marty

    Hey Clayboner, I'm sure you *meant* to say that it would 
    be a great honor to be an OSU fan.  Anyway, it pains me
    to say it but, for the BIG-8 champs, I'm picking the bad
    boys from Norman (who are trying to mend their ways).
    NU doesn't have the talent nor the schedule to be ready
    to compete with anyone above the Kansas' strengths and
    last year's CU team is gone.  Besides, CU doesn't seem
    to have a cause to fire them up--atleast not yet.  
    
    1st...OU
    2nd...NU
    3rd...CU
    4th...5-way tie (lets have a moment of silence and show
    	some respect for OSU who is nearly terminally ill)
    
    let the games continue....Cowboy

    re .523
    
    Actually very few of last year's CU team is "gone".  I predict it will
    be
    
    		1st	Buffs	
    		2nd	Cornhuskers
    		3rd     Sooners
    
    Jan

    
    Let's see I predict,
    
    
         1st CU " LETS DO IT AGAIN BUFFS "
    
         2nd OU " OH IT FEELS SO GOOD TO BE HALF-WAY BACK SOONERS "
    
         3rd NU " NO! THIS DON'T FEEL RIGHT/ CAN'T BE RIGHT CORNHUSKERS "
    
    
    Drewski
    

Now here's what will really happen. CU has lost it's edge, OU is much
improved but NU will win this thing with * D * E * F * E * N * S * E *

     1st   Nebraska   ! Back where they belong
     2nd   Colorado   ! Still in unfamiliar teratory
     3rd   Oklahoma   ! Oh so close to taking 2nd, would get a good bowl
                        if not for probation

Take this to the bank !!!

Nebraska Marty

    CU takes on the Illini at Champaign tommorrow at 1:30 MDT.  The game is
    being carried on ABC, although it is only regional.  The Buffs are a
    3.5 point favorite.
    
    A good matchup if you look at the rankings, but both teams are
    struggling.  We know about CU's early season sputtering, and Illinois
    lost their opener to Arizona last Saturday.
    
    I think CU will have a good game tomorrow, although they may still have
    some problems adjusting in their passing game.  Defense appears to be
    coming together after a good outing against Stanford.
    
    CU by 13.
    
    Joe

    
    My prediction...
    
    CU        31
    Illinois  21
    
    
    
    Peace/ed

    Heartbreaking loss for Cu by 1 point.
    
    All 3 CU games so far have been soooo close they could just as easily
    be 3-0 as they could be 0-3 as they are 1-1-1.
    
    Vulnurability to the pass still evident in CU's defense.
    
    OU looking VERY tough. Will the Big-8 return to normal this year with
    another NU and OU shootout for conference title ??? I dont think you
    can count CU out yet and Nebraska has LOADS of YOUNG talent.
    
    Stay tuned folks, this could get VERY interesting...
    
    Nebraska Marty

    How long will OU be on probation?  I was watching a college football
    recap on the tube and the announcer mentioned that they cannot be
    ranked because of the probation.  In my Sunday morning paper, the was a
    "No. 14" next to Oklahoma.  I'm assuming that they can still be ranked
    but cannot participate in a bowl game, no?  If that's the case, what if
    they were that good to be ranked #1 at the end of the season going
    undefeated but can't get to the Your_name_goes_here Bowl, the one that
    usually "decides the national champion", but the #2 and #3 ranked teams
    play each other?  (I suppose the winner and loser would wind up 1 and 2
    with the previous #1 which didn't go to the almighty bowl winding up
    #3).
    
    Hawk

    OU has 2 years remaining on their probation.
    
    UPI will not rank teams that are on probation.  AP will.
    
    OU cannot go to a bowl game but obviously can be on TV.
    
    Probation teams have won the AP championship in the past.

   CU looks like penguin puckey!
   I'm from Illinois, so I managed to enjoy the game, but probably won't
   enjoy seeing CU beat by Nebraska and Oklahoma, which will surely happen
   if CU doesn't get it's act together. You have to bring something to a
   game besides last year's press clippings.

   Miami at California..... give me a break!
   Miami should be put on probation. Maybe even arrested for harboring
   escaped assholes. People like to rag on Notre Dame, but if Lou Holtz's
   players gave such a disgusting exhibition of poor sportsmanship, and
   acted like terminal jerk-offs, he'd have them riding the bench for the
   first performance, and off the team if they did it again.

   Virginia looks for real.

   Mike JN

    Didn't see the Miami-Cal game, but the Canes aren't the only ones who
    like to whoop it up.  The 'we're better then everybody' Irish were
    whooping it up pretty good when they got up on Michigan 14-3, but the
    Wolverines came back with 21 straight points and showed ND that they
    are far from unbeatable, even at home.  So the Miami players like to
    celebrate good plays and incite the crowd.  Watters was pumping his
    fist all night and urging on the crowd.  Part of the excitement and
    electricity of college football IMO.
    
    As for CU, it's time for the Buffs to stop thinking about national
    championships and big-time bowls and start playing the kind of football
    they're capable of.  They have excellent talent, and need to start
    focusing before they end up with 3 or 4 losses this year, which would
    be a big disappointment.  It doesn't get any easier with Texas at
    Austin this Saturday night.
    
    IMO, the problem with CU's offense is this incorporation of the passing
    game.  I know you NU fans probably think I'm crazy saying CU should
    give up this passing deal, but CU has the talent to run the ball 80% of
    the time in a game and win.  They did it last year, and look what OU did
    to a top-20 team on Saturday.  I think they only had about 70 yards passing.
    
    Speaking of OU, Holy Smokes!  I heard on the radio this morning that OU
    is ranked #11 in the new AP poll, which is a joke.  You know that the
    pollsters aren't giving the Sooners credit because they're on
    probation.  OU should be ranked in the top 5, and would kill Notre
    Shame if they played right now.  Michigan practically ran the ball at
    will against the Irish, and OU would have a field day.
    
    Joe   
        

   Gimme a break Joe. I'm not talking about whooping it up, or shaking
   your fists in the air, or even a little endzone dance. I'm all for
   emotion and excitement. I'm talking about straddling a fallen opponent,
   shaking your finger in his face while laughing, and not allowing him
   to rise. I'm talking about ludicrous capers, bumps and grinds after
   every (usually pedestrian) catch. I'm talking about continued,
   repetetive (of course... they're not bright enough to think of anything
   original or creative) behavior that paints themselves, the team, and
   the entire school as a pack of sub human anal retentive sleazoids.

   As you may have guessed... Miami has rapidly become one of my least
   favorite teams.

   Mike JN

    Joe,  What Mike JN said - urging the crowd on is fine - pointing
    at opponents, hot dogging it, and that sh*t is what turned me off
    to the Canes - and they can thank JimmY Johnson for it.   I don't
    remember the Canes of pre Johnson doing that crap.  
    
    JD

  <<< Note 27.523 by FREMNT::REED "OklaSt--#29 NCAA Wrestling Championship" >>>

    Hey Clayboner, I'm sure you *meant* to say that it would 
    be a great honor to be an OSU fan.  Anyway, it pains me
    to say it but, for the BIG-8 champs, I'm picking the bad
    boys from Norman (who are trying to mend their ways).
    NU doesn't have the talent nor the schedule to be ready
    to compete with anyone above the Kansas' strengths and
    last year's CU team is gone.  Besides, CU doesn't seem
    to have a cause to fire them up--atleast not yet.  
    
    1st...OU
    2nd...NU
    3rd...CU
    4th...5-way tie (lets have a moment of silence and show
    	some respect for OSU who is nearly terminally ill)
    
    let the games continue....Cowboy
    

    re: last few
    
    It's the difference between celebrating and TAUNTING !!!
    
    Miami taunts
    
    ND celebrates
    
    Nebraska Marty

    >It's the difference between celebrating and TAUNTING !!!
    
    The biggest difference between taunting and celebrating is the
    perception of the viewer, i.e. what team they play on/root for.
    
    Dan

    
    Sorry Cowgirl.  I sez what I means and I means what I sez.
    
    I will agree with your assessment of the final big 8 standings.
    Unless CU realizes that the football season has started and
    starts playing up to their potential, they'll finish 3rd and
    possibly 4th.  I also agree with whoever said that they don't
    need to throw for >2000 yds. this year to be successful.  Their
    main weapon is the run and it should stay that way until they
    find a QB who is a consistent passer.  They need to work on pass
    defense if anything.  I wonder if Coach Mac knows what cover 1
    means?  Their zone is too easy to break.  Pressure the QB and
    let the DBs go man to man.  
    
    CU has the horses to stop OU's running game.  But, OU is on
    a roll and is my pick for the *team to beat*.  CU does play
    them in Boulder so it will be interesting.
    
    Claybone

    Dan,
    
    That's where you are clearly wrong.  Pointing fingers at an opponent,
    dangling the ball in there face, spitting at them is taunting -
    no matter who does it.   When LT goes into his pistol shooting act,
    that's showboating and taunting and I don't like it.  Celebrating
    or raising one's hands to get the crowd cheering is not taunting,
    and IMO, there is nothing wrong with it.  Cortez Kennedy did it
    last year and it was fine.  Gyrating like a sick Revere hooker is
    taunting.
    
    JD

RE .536
    
    Cowboy, if, "NU doesn't have the talent nor the schedule to be ready
    to compete with anyone above the Kansas' strengths", how do you
    come up with this?
    
    "1st...OU
     2nd...NU
     3rd...CU"
    

    I'm a fan of neither Miami or ND, but I can tell the difference.  Miami
    taunts.  ND celebrates.
    
    John

Actually, I hate that stupid no taunting rule.  Even though I'm in 
a note pertaining to college football, I'll say that the NFL rule
is stupid. 

If a team wants to celebrate, they should be able to.  They should be
able to jump up and down, do cartwheels, flips -- in short anything
and everything they can and want to do within the guideline for 
getting a NEA grant -- as long as they do it within the prescribed
amount of time for getting the next play off so they don't delay the
game.

There is no person in the world that can tell what's taunting or
what's celebrating, unless perhaps he stands next to the player
who's just sacked the qb and hears him say "In your face, you pansy".
But even that's part of the game.....

'Saw

    >That's where you are clearly wrong. 
    
    I respect your opinion JD, but there is nothing clear about it.  There
    is a very fine line between cheering for your good fortune and the
    other team's misfortune, and I'm not gonna draw it.
    
    Dan

    >Cowboy, if, "NU doesn't have the talent nor the schedule to be ready
    >to compete with anyone above the Kansas' strengths", how do you
    >come up with this?
    
    >"1st...OU
    > 2nd...NU
    > 3rd...CU"
    
    O.K. so I was getting carried away, but I *do* think that NU better
    keep their minds on some of the other BIG-8 teams, tho.  It wouldn't
    surprise me at all to see Iowa State or Kansas State upset them this
    year.  These teams are starting to play respectable ball.
    
    Cowboy
    

    The distance between NU, OU, CU and the rest of the big-8 is HUGE.
    
    Upsets can happen at any time but I for one consider that the 3
    teams mentioned above would all have to have a VERY off day to loose
    to any big-8 team but the other 2 biggies.
    
    OU this year is scarry for sure. I also think that NU is underestimated
    (Not in the polls but by the noters in this note). They are young but
    loaded with talent and speed. NU has been trying to convert from power
    to speed for years and now it looks like they are starting to achieve
    their goal. NU will have time to mature offensively by the time they
    run into another real good team (Yea I know the schedule does stink)
    and I think they will be ready.
    
    With CU at NU, OU at CU and NU at OU this will be VERY interesting.
    
    If the above mentioned games were played right now I would predict:
    
    	1st   OU
        2nd   NU
        3rd   CU
    
    However, these games are not played for about 7 weeks or so. Therefore
    here is my final prediction:
    
    	1st   NU
        2nd   OU
        3rd   CU
    
    Thing return back to normal in the Big-8.
    
    WHAT, did you actually expect me to predict Nebraska NOT to win the
    BIG-8 ?????? You should know better than that. I'm WAY too biased
    to NOT pick the Big Red of the North !!!!!!
    
      GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED
      GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED
      GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED
      GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED
      GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED GO BIG RED
    
Nebraska Marty

    Hey NM, if you are expecting the teams to end up in their normal
    positions:
    
    1..OU
    2..NU
    3..OSU
    4..MU
    5..CU
    6..ISU
    7..KU
    8..KSU

    Cowboy,
    
    Good point !!! Your right. But what I meant by "normal" was the 1st
    and 2nd positions being occupied by the "Big-2" Nebraska/Oklahoma.
    
    Last year was the 1st year in 20 years that that did not happen.
    
    By the way, did you know that Nebraska and Oklahoma are 5-5 against
    each other in the '80s ???
    
    	'80  Okies won
    	'81  Huskers won
    	'82  Huskers won
    	'83  Huskers won
    	'84  Okies won
    	'85  Okies won
    	'86  Okies won
    	'87  Okies won
    	'88  Huskers won
    	'89  Huskers won
    
    By the way, regarding the disussion about CU and the passing game.
    I agree that CU plays best and is competitive when it runs 90% or
    so of the time. But this will not achieve a national championship
    in the current scheme of things. True, running primarily, they can
    win 9 or 10 games a year and challenge for Big-8 championship. But
    the '80s have shown that, for the most part, have belonged to the
    pro-set passing teams.
    
    Look at the Nebraska teams of '82 and '83 and some of the great Oklahoma
    teams of the '80s, there teams did not beat a Miami team in the '80s.
    And the whole world agreed that in '83 Nebraska was the better team.
    But Kosars passing game won it. Same against Oklahoma.
    
    Thats why I talk about why Osborne at Nebraska needs to throw out
    of his sets more. If things continue at NU as they have been, then
    Nu will continue its 9 or 10 win top-10 season with close losses
    on bowl-day to passing teams. (I realize last years FSU game was not
    close, but thats the ONLY bowl Nu has EVER been blown out of big time).
    
    I think that as long as CU has Hagan at QB they should concentrate on
    the run but they should recruit a passing QB. I havent seen Grant and
    Joseph at NU much but Grant looks like he has a nice passing touch.
    Hope he develops.
    
    Nebraska Marty

    
>    Good point !!! Your right. But what I meant by "normal" was the 1st
>    and 2nd positions being occupied by the "Big-2" Nebraska/Oklahoma.
    
>    Last year was the 1st year in 20 years that that did not happen.
    
     Not quite, Marty.  The 1986 final Big-8 standings looked like this:

     OU  7-0
     CU  6-1
     NU  5-2

Joe

    Yeah, CU probably needed to pass the ball to win the National
    Championship--but not with Hagan doing the throwing.  CU's
    only chance at all the marbles was to go with the run.  Now
    they will have to fight to stay in the top 10.
    
    I have to put the blame on coach Mac's stubbornness to stick
    with an idea (or dream) when its too unlikely that it can
    be fulfilled.  Take his "dream" at the end of last season.
    It became obvious that CU needs to be able to pass the ball
    to beat the top teams.  It should have been obvious last
    season that Hagan would not be an instant passing QB by the
    next season.
    
    Mac made a similar mistake a couple years ago against OSU.
    He had made the statement just before the game that he
    didn't want to run on every first down--he didn't want the
    OSU defense to be waiting for the run.  That definitely
    makes sense but what CU ended up doing was passing on
    nearly every first down play!  They only completed 2 or
    3 and of those 1 or 2 turned into fumbles and then points
    for OSU.
    
    Cowboy
    

 Gee, I must live on Planet Claire cause I knew it going in and was proven
 right that Miami was the better team in 83. Sure NU was great team but
 Miami had both a running game and passing game and NU lacked the passing.

 ;^)

 mike

    re .551
    
    The only reasons Miami won in '83 was because they were playing at home
    and because Osborne went for two.  
    
    Miami National Champs?  No way!  At best they were 49-state Champs,
    'cause they weren't Florida State Champs!
    
    FSU 
    
    
     

    re: .551
    
    Your statement is partialy correct, at least the way I see it.
    
    That Nebraska team was one of the Huskers best passing teams. They 
    had Irving Fryar and another good wingback, I cant think of his name
    now, I think Brown. Anyway the QB was Turner Gill who was too small
    for the NFL but went to the CFL and was the leading passer in the
    league for a few years before being retired by several concusions.
    The whole offensive line went on to the NFL and some are still playing.
    
    They also had Heisman winner Rozier (who was one of the NFL's leading
    rushers a few years ago) and the 49ers Rathman.
    
    That was one thing that made them so good, they COULD BOTH pass and
    run. Maybee you will recall the pass that Gill hit Fryar with in the
    Miami end zone. Perfect pass and Fryar just droped it.
    
    No, I disagree, Miami did win the game and they were brilliant
    (especialy Kosar) but Nebraska did have the best team. Remember, the
    game was played at Miami's home field, the song "Hurracain Warning"
    was played over the PA system, when Fryar dropped the ball there were
    2 "Orange bowl officials" dressed in official Orange bowl jackets
    jumping up and down celebrating.
    
    This was an impartial bowl ???  B.S. Play the game at Nebraska with the
    sea of red and I would have been different. Or even on a neutral field
    and Nu would have won 8 out of 10 that year from Miami. Schellenberger
    even said in recent interviews that it was a MAJOR upset.
    
    In the 4th quarter Nebraska, down by 14, just bowled over Miami. In
    Osbornes book "More Than Winning" he states that NU was by far the
    strongest team in the 4th quarter of that game. Miami was VERY
    fortunate to hold on. They won by a missed 2 point conversion. And
    remember, Nebraska COULD have kicked the extra point and won the
    national championship.
    
    Big Red of '83
    The BEST that will ever BE
    
    Nebraska Marty

 Well I don't exactly recall Turner Gill being all that great a passer.
 Given the wider fields and motion all over the place I don't find it
 surprising that he could go up to Canada and lead the league. Wasn't he
 also a prospect as a baseball pitcher? Irving Fryar was then is now and
 forever shall be one the most overrated, wasted gifts of talent I have seen.
 Given that Miami was a 17 point underdog yes it was an upset but I didn't
 see it that way. Miami had pounded OU, ND and others earlier in the year
 and I figured that they're brand of offense would be too much for NU.

 As far as the comeback goes how many times do we see both pro and college
 team blow big lead by down shifting into protect the ball eat the clock
 and play prevent on defense? Why if Miami had stayed aggressive the score
 porbably would have been 40 to 14...

 I do applaud Osboune for going for the win. This is college, they're not
 playing for money so you should always go for the win. Ties are like kissing
 your sister. I'd rather loose by a point and have the satisfaction of knowing
 my team was man enough to go for it than walk away with the empty feeling a
 tie leaves.....

 mike

    Mike, Gill was a great passer - one of the best option passers I had
    ever seen, and in fcat matched Bernie pass for pass in that game
    (taking into account Bernie threw a lot more. Gill went to the CFL,
    didn't do too badly, but had a problem with concussions (he had 3 in
    one season). Doctors told him to retire, and he did. Last I heard, he
    went into the Indians' farm system as a SS, but was at least 3 years
    ago.
    
    As for Fryar, I think he has matured a lot in the last few years, but
    he's on the wrong team to take advantage of his talents. Believe me, if
    the Pats wanted to trade him, there would be no dearth of buyers.
    
    If the Pats ever get Irving the ball 50 times in a season, look out.
    
    As that Orange Bowl, it still ranks as the best college game I've ever
    seen. I strongly believe that bowl games should have an OT. That was
    the wrong situation to force a team to go for two. And I did, and still
    do support Osborne's decision. That was one hell of a game.
    
    drM

    Regarding this, I will give you that the Miami teams since '83
    were better than Nebraska. I'm just saying that the '83 Miami
    team was not a better team than Nebraska of that year.
    
    One interesting thing about that '83 Husker team. After Nu beat
    OU in '83, Switzer said that he thought that the '82 Husker team
    was better than the '83 team. The '82 team had everybody list
    in previous notes PLUS Roger Craig. And we all know how good Craig
    is.
    
    The '82 squad won the Orange bowl but lost AT Penn State in the last
    min. of the game. That '82 NU Penn state game was also a fantastic
    game. That was the year that the Penn state had 2, not 1 but 2, very
    controversial catches in the final drive.
    
    Now here is another knock on the rating system. Osborne alluded to this
    in his bood "More Than Winning." Penn State barely beat Nebraska early
    in the '82 season. Penn State had a loss to someone else (Anyone know
    who?) fairly late in the '82 season. These were the only 2 losses for
    both teams.
    
    Factors:
    
    	Penn State beat NU
    	Nebraska loss was an early season loss
    	Penn State had a late season loss
    
    We all know about the late and early season loss krap that influences
    the ratings. Penn State ended up #1 and Nu #2. It really could have
    gone either way. Just a little nit pick.
    
    Never, never, never has a team been so good for 2 years in a row and
    come sssooooooooooooo close to #1 both years and miss by such a small
    margin as Nebraska did those 2 years. It could have just as easily been
    back to back for NU as it was #2 for 2 years. Colorado fans, you dont
    know what close is. Last year you were close to it. But not as close as
    Nu in '82 and '83. Frustrating, but thats life. And it is only a game.
    
    Nebraska Marty

�    The biggest difference between taunting and celebrating is the
�    perception of the viewer, i.e. what team they play on/root for.

   I don't buy it, Dan. I think it's usually pretty obvious which is
   which, and it doesn't have a lot to do with which team you're rooting
   for. I hate the Ninerth... but when Ronnie Lott makes a monster hit,
   he'll shoot his arm in the air, or make like a little punch motion, as
   if to say `All Right!!'. Then he sticks out his hand and helps the guy
   up. He doesn't stand over the poor schmuck screaming and waving his
   finger in the guy's face. It has to do with a quality that most people
   recognize, but find difficult to describe.... Class. It also has
   something to do with timing. The fans expect a show of emotion after a
   TD, Major Hit, Sack, Fantastic Catch or Run, etc.; they don't expect
   you to leap about and put on a ludicrous bump and grind display because
   you were agile enough to run across the field without tripping over
   your own feet and falling down. In a competition, any success is, of
   course, going to be equally balanced by a lack of success on the part
   of your opponent, so yes... your celebration is at your opponents
   expense; but this does not make it taunting. Celebration expresses
   happiness.... Taunting is malicious, and I can tell the difference
   whether it's at my (or my team's) expense, or not.

   Mike JN

    I don't recall who handed Penn State a loss late in the 1982 season but
    I would guess it was Pitt with Dan Marino at quarterback.
    
    Penn State went on to win the Sugar Bowl and the national championship
    on 1-Jan-1983 over Georgia, I believe.   Herschel Walker's last game
    before he headed for the USFL.
    
    Bob Hunt

    
    Ah yes, the 1983 season, remember it well.
    
    Going into the bowl games, the polls were:
    
    1) Nebraska (11-0)
    2) Texas    (11-0)
    3) Auburn   (10-1 with wins over Georgia and Florida and an opening
                      game loss to Texas)
    4) Iowa     (10-1)
    5) Miami    (10-1 with an opening day 35-3 loss to Florida(you
                      remember Florida, the team that was beaten by Auburn)
    
    So we have the bowl games:
    
    Miami beats Nebraska 31-30 in the Orange Bowl
    Georgia(who lost to Auburn) beats Texas 10-9 in the Cotton Bowl
    Iowa(as usual for the big ten) loses in the Rose Bowl
    Auburn beats Michigan 9-7 in the Sugar Bowl(remember the SEC champion
    is tied to the Sugar Bowl so they had no choice of opponent)
    
    Seems reasonable to me that Auburn would win the national championship
    since they were the highest ranked team that won and since they played
    the toughest schedule in the nation and beat both Florida and Georgia.
    But no, in their infinite wisdom, the UPI and AP final polls were:
    
    1) Miami
    2) Nebraska(so much for late season losses counting for more than early
                season losses)
    3) Auburn(didn't even change positions)
    
    The '83 and '84 seasons(BYU winning the national championship by
    beating a 6-5 Michigan team by a couple of points) cost the UPI and AP
    any credibility they may have had...
    

Marty,

>    The '82 squad won the Orange bowl but lost AT Penn State in the last
>    min. of the game. That '82 NU Penn state game was also a fantastic
>    game. That was the year that the Penn state had 2, not 1 but 2, very
>    controversial catches in the final drive.
    
	This is what I was talking about a few notes back.  Let me ask
	you something.  Has anybody EVER beat NU decisively (in your
	honest opinion of course) ?  Has anybody ever beat NU without
	divine intervention or massive help from the referees or without
	luck?  Please, enlighten us.

>    Never, never, never has a team been so good for 2 years in a row and
>    come sssooooooooooooo close to #1 both years and miss by such a small
>    margin as Nebraska did those 2 years. It could have just as easily been
>    back to back for NU as it was #2 for 2 years. 

	Are these excellent losses (tm)?  


>   Colorado fans, you dont
>    know what close is. Last year you were close to it. But not as close as
>    Nu in '82 and '83. Frustrating, but thats life. And it is only a game.
 
	Now why would you single out Colorado fans?  We were close to
	being close eh?  I'd say one or two blown first half scoring
	opportunities in the Orange bowl is close.

Claybone

>	Now why would you single out Colorado fans?  We were close to
>	being close eh?  I'd say one or two blown first half scoring
>	opportunities in the Orange bowl is close.

  Well Claybone, I said the simple fact of the matter was that CU was playing
  ND not Miami who was clearly a better team than ND so you weren't as close.
  Hell FSU was a better squad than ND and CU last year also..

mike

    re: Claybone
    
>                     ...Has anybody EVER beat NU decisively (in your
>	honest opinion of course) ?  Has anybody ever beat NU without
>	divine intervention or massive help from the referees or without
>	luck?  Please, enlighten us.

    Of course Nu has had some pure losses. FSU last year, Miami in the
    Orange Bowl a couple of years back, Oklahoma games have been close
    almost every year but there have been a few years where OU handed
    it to us on a platter. UCLA beat NU bad 1 time in the '80s. It dosent
    happen often but there have been times when NU has been soundly beaten.
    
 
>	Now why would you single out Colorado fans?  We were close to
>	being close eh?  I'd say one or two blown first half scoring
>	opportunities in the Orange bowl is close.
    
    Only reason I mentioned it was because this is the Big-8 conference
    and CU is comming off last years Orange Bowl game real close to a
    national championship. I'm just saying that NU has done that many
    times and a missed 2 point conversion and a last second Penn State
    drive are closer losses than being behind the whole second half
    and losing by, hmmmm, I dont remember what the Cu ND score was???
    Was it 7 or 10 points? 
    
    A bit nit-pickey yes.
    
    Nebraska Marty

    re .560
    
    Wade, Marty was right. The Penn State game was so infamous that I
    remember a T-shirt that the game inspired. It had a fooball field on it
    that had an extended sideline in one spot (where a Penn State player
    made a catch at least 2 feet out of bounds, but was allowed), and a
    funny endzone as well (I believe the winning TD was out of the back of
    the end zone).

    
    Mike,
    
    	In terms of the way college teams are ranked, ND was the better
    	choice than Miami or FSU......regardless of who was playing
    	better ball in December.  Hey!  I know!  Let's start a playoff
    	system like the NCAA has in every(?) single other sport!  
    
    Marty,
    
    	Well alright!  There are one or two objective bones in your
    	bugeater body!
    
    Claybone

    re: Claybone
    
    I'm a Bugeater through and through !!!!
    
    Ya haaaa ha, ha ha ha, yeaaaa.
    
    Bugeater Marty

    re .563
    
    The P.State field diagram included the two spots where P.State was
    given a call by the same ref, who, believe it or not was a cousin
    of Coach Paterno!
    
    One was an out of bounds pass by P.State against NU that was called in
    and the other was an inbound end zone pass by 'Bama that was call out!
    
    The diagram was something like the following:
    
    
                                 P.State field layout
    
                   _____________________________________________
                  |                                            |
                  |_                                           |
    'Bama catch ->  |                                          |
                  |-                                           |
                  |                                            |
                  |                                            |
                  |                                            |
                   -------  -----------------------------------
                         |__| <- P.State catch
    
    
    P.State should have had two loses, instead were "National Champs"
    

    
    Such distortion of facts...
    
    First of all, in the Penn State-Nebraska opener in 1982, only the first
    call was an out-of-bounds play, and yes, it was questionable.  I'm not
    exactly sure what down the play came on, and therefore its effect on
    the outcome of the game.  The second call was in the end zone, but was
    a catch/trap call for the tight end.  It sure looked like a good catch 
    to me.  At the very least he pulled the ball in under his body and if
    he dropped it there's no way anyone would be able to see it.  (What was 
    that guy's name?  Bowman?  Bauer?  Something like that.)
    
    Penn State was beat by Alabama that year, 42-21, in mid-season.  The
    reason there wasn't much doubt that they deserved the National
    Championship that year (under the de facto guidelines of the system)
    is that 1) they beat Nebraska head-to-head, and 2) they played and beat
    undefeated and untied Georgia in the Sugar Bowl while Nebraska came up
    with their usual lackluster Orange Bowl effort in defeating only a
    fair LSU team (9-2-1 coming in) by the less-than-overwhelming score of
    21-20.  Even in Lincoln, I don't believe there was outrage over this
    one.  (By the way, SMU was voted number 2 over Nebraska).
    
    The same criteria apply to Miami's championship in 1983.  Auburn had no
    case after taking out 9-2 Michigan in a 9-7 yawner.  Nebraska was a
    powerhouse like no one had seen in years and were upset by an
    up-and-coming Miami.  There was zero doubt in the minds of the voters.
    Auburn didn't even finish second, and rightly so.  (Also, I don't 
    believe that Miami ever beat Oklahoma behind Kosar.  I'm pretty sure 
    there were only the two regular season victories behind Testaverde and 
    the Orange Bowl win behind Walsh.  I think Miami beat Penn State that 
    year, but then again everyone did, including a revenge thrashing by 
    Nebraska in the Kickoff Classic the likes of which Joe Paterno has 
    never experienced before or since.)
    
    glenn

    re: last few
    
    T-shirt. The Nebraska game of '82 had a 3rd or 4th down play in Penn
    States winning last min. drive on the left sideline. Replays showed
    he was clearly out. It depends on which down it was. If 3rd down then
    State would have another chance if the call were made correct. If 4th
    down then the call did blow the game. Anybody remember which down it
    was ???
    
    The Other part of the t-shirt represented the Alabama game which was
    played the following year. That's the end zone thing. But he was right
    about the fact that it was the SAME ref.
    
    Good job Glenn, man you remembered your facts well.
    My whole point in this is how %$&*^$ing close NU can 2 straight years.
    
    Nebraska Marty

    re .567
    
    So, you are saying that you are only as good as your last game?  It
    doesn't matter that Auburn had the toughest schedule in the nation and
    that they beat Georgia and Florida and that there loss was the first
    game of the season?  They were only as good as their 9-7 win over
    Michigan?  A 1 point win in a game where 61 points is scored is less
    convincing to me than a 2 point win in a game where 16 points are
    scored...

    
    As far as I was concerned, the team that played and beat Nebraska in
    1983 had the "toughest" schedule.  Yes, Georgia, Florida, and Texas
    were all excellent that year, but Nebraska was head and shoulders over
    anyone, probably the best all-around team of the decade.  Their average
    margin of victory was 52-16 coming into the Orange Bowl, and it didn't
    come against the kind of patsy schedule they're playing now.
    
    Go back and research it if you're interested.  Go ask the experts. 
    Hell, ask Marty, he'll tell you.
    
    The worst part of it, I'll admit, is that Auburn never even had the
    opportunity to take on Nebraska because of the conference commitments,
    and they ended up playing a poor game against a mediocre opponent known
    for regularly losing in the bowls.  But I don't think they'd have
    touched Nebraska.  Miami won the only way possible, via the pass.  They
    indeed were a more worthy opponent.  Who was Auburn's quarterback in 
    1983?
    
    No, I do not come to this conclusion based on one game.  Auburn was
    most definitely not screwed in the polls in 1983.
    
    If you want real controversy, look at Notre Dame over Alabama in 1977, 
    USC over Alabama in 1978 (UPI only; maybe the most illogical voting in 
    my time following college football), or BYU in 1984.  The rest of them
    were pretty reasonable decisions.
    
    glenn
     
    

    
    I don't buy that crap about Nebraska being so awesome.  If they were as
    good as you say, then Miami would not have beaten them.
    
    Of course, it doesn't really matter what we think.  Division 1A
    football will not have a true national champion until they go to a
    playoff system.  The next best thing would be to sever all
    conference/bowl tie-ins so that the best teams can play each other.
    
    Anyway, to get back to Big 8 Sports.  If OU wins the Big 8, does the
    Orange Bowl have to take another Big 8 team or can they take anyone? 
    It seems that if the Orange Bowl is tied to the Big 8 champion and that
    team is not eligible for a bowl then all tie-ins are off.
    
    BTW, the Auburn quarterback in '83 was Randy Campbell.  Of course, AU
    ran the wishbone that year so the quarterback would not be that well
    known...

    John, even though you are an Auburn fan I'll reply to your note
    anyway. And by the way, Nebraska WAS THAT awesome in '83.
    
    My understanding is that IF OU wins the Big-8 outright, then they 
    are NOT obligated by contract to invite the Big-8 runner up. They
    could invite anyone they want. This would be to the Orange bowls
    advantage IF the Big-8 second place team is NOT in the thick of it
    for a national championship.
    
    However I am not sure about this. Anyone know for sure ???
    Of course, this is all water under the bridge because Nebraska IS
    going to win the Big-8.   ;^)
    
    Nebraska Marty

    re .568
    
    Hey Marty, I deserve an assist !