Conference 7.286::sports_90

    Hey, is this note for just the NFL as an entity, or anything to
    do with the NFL and it's member teams?
    
    Wantless minds inquiring
    
    Lee

    Any NFL discussion you wish to start.
    
    Feel free to start a team specific note...

    Question:
    
    Why do the Dolphins play the Chiefs twice when they are not even in the
    same division?
    
    jab

    Last place teams (or next to last-not sure) play each other twice 
    the next year.  Green Bay plays Dallas twice this year as well.
    
    
    Spud

Atlanta Falcons tight end Brad Beckman was killed early this
morning in an auto accident on Interstate 85 near Lilburn,
Georgia.  

Beckman, who would have been 25 in two weeks, is the second
Falcon player to be killed in an auto accident this season.
Rookie tackle Ralph Norwood was fatally injured last month.  

Police said Beckman's car skidded on an icy surface and hit the
rear of another vehicle.  Beckman's car slid into the opposite
lane of traffic and was struck broadside by a truck.  

Beckman played at Nebraska-Omaha and was a seventh-round draft
pick of the Minnesota Vikings in 1988.  He was cut and later
played 12 games with the New York Giants.  Beckman joined the
Vikings last March.  He had 11 receptions for 102 yards and one
touchdown this season.  

The Falcons said funeral arrangements were incomplete.  

    
    
         New Orleans 30, Philly BEagles 20.
    
         GIANTS are now back in first place where they belong. 
    
         I sincerely hope that they get to play the Rams at the Meadowlands
    where it will be lovely GIANT weather.  We have one helluva payback for
    them.
    
                                                 GJ
    

    
    heres my scenario...
    
    giants defeat raiders [bo dont know  giant defense :).. giaNts have
    week off..  then i get full reign of house  for  game  jan7th as
    the giants host  ..... the pack or  the vikings.. phila is home
    wildcard  they deafeat rams....  as giants  defeat nfc  central
    champ...  phila defeats niners in san fran.. giant  host  championship
    
    game in meadowlands against phila...
    
    pretty easy huh?? :))
    
    dinz

    Could someone post the scoring summary for last nights game.  A
    co-worker is sweating out his fantasy football playoffs and needs to
    know who scored the last 2 td's for New Orleans and how far of a play
    they were??
    
    Chuck

    re Chuck
    
    With the score 20-16, Fourcade threw a 20 yard touchdown pass to Eric
    Martin.  Then, Buford Jordan scored on a 1 yard run after an
    interception by Dave Waymer.  I don't have the complete summary,
    however.
    
    HTH
    
    jab

    
    	re: .7
    
    	only one problem with that scenario... the giants aren't going
    to be playing that conference championship game in nj.  that's right,
    and remember who has divs on payback for a playoff game a couple
    of years back that hospitalized montana.  :)

    WELL, TIME WILL TELL.. niners certainly are tough..
    
    dinz
    

    
    	well the way it looks now, the only way the niners and giants
    would meet would be in the conference championship...  i sort of
    hope joe plays in chicago at least a little bit because otherwise
    it will be a month layoff before he plays again.  needless to say,
    the nfc championship game will be the superbowl game in my mind.
     :)

    Dinz has it right. The Eagles are going into San Francisco and will
    knock Montana unconscious. 

    I just don't think San Fran is physical enough to handle the Eagles.
    The Giants get a laugher against Green Bay after Minnesota chokes
    at home against Cincy and then it's the real NFL championship 
    Philly at NJ  on Jan 14 with game time tempaerature a balmmy 13
    and the wind chill minus 20. Simms doesn't wear gloves,Megget doesn't
    get the ball near the goal line and LT's ankle is better.
    
    Denver only has to stay awake to advance in the AFC. 
    
    If you look at my title in the Ultimate Handicapper predictuions
    for this past week,it said "Giants thank New Orleans". Thank you
    Saints!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Thank you New Orleans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   

                                                           
>        I just don't think San Fran is physical enough to handle the Eagles.

    	who won the s.f. - philly game earlier this season?  surely
    if n.o. can handle them, the team with the best record in the nfl
    and toughest schedule can win.
    
    sean

    Correct me if I am wrong, but the playoff scenerio should go like this:
    
    Wildcard winner vs. San Francisco
    NFC Central Champ. vs. NFC East Champ.
    
    Therefore, Phila. would have to beat the Gints first before they could
    play the Niners.
    
    The point is moot, the Browns will win the Super Bowl.
    
    jab

    Void the last reply.
    
    I forgot the Giants were going to win the division because Phila.
    CHOKED last night.
    
    My apologies.
    
    jab

       The wildcard winner can't play against the Conference Champ from
    its own division in the 1st round, them's da roolz!
                                 Denny

    
    	the wildcard winner *CANNOT* play the divison winner from its
    own division:
    
    	NY cannot play PHILA (only in conference championship)
    	S.F. cannot play L.A.   "  "     "          "
                                     
    sean

    My paper said that Montana will play against the Bears.

    ANyone have a boxscore from last Monday nights game, the Rams
    vs. the 49ers, or perhaps remember the scorers?  I know Montana
    to Taylor for 2 tds.  ANyone?
    
    JD

             <<< STKCSC::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]NFL.NOTE;1 >>>
                          -< NFL - American Football >-
================================================================================
Note 133.41          Tell Me! Who Can Beat The Forty Niners!            41 of 52
LEVERS::STROUT "a pound of obscure"                  46 lines  13-DEC-1989 20:42
                               -< s.f. vs. l.a. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    
    	according to the summary in the paper today, here is how the
    game went:
    	
    	FIRST QUARTER:
    
    	Rams TD  (7-0):	Bell 3 yd run
    	Rams TD (14-0):	Johnson 4 yd. pass (highlight - 42 yd pass
    			interference call)
    	Rams FG (17-0):	Lansford, 25 yds.  (keyed by Irving interception)
    
    
    	SECOND QUARTER:
    
    	S.F. FG (17-3): Cofer, 19 yds
    	S.F. TD (17-10): Taylor, 92 yd. pass (highlight: TAYLOR!)
    
    
    	THIRD QUARTER:
    
    	L.A. TD (24-10): McGee, 13 yd pass from Everett
    
    
    	FOURTH QUARTER:
    
    	L.A. FG (27-10): Lansford, 22 yds.  (key - 30 yd total penalty
    			 against Haley of S.F.)    
    
    
    	S.F. TD (27-17): Wilson 7 yd pass from Montana
    	S.F. TD (27-23): Taylor 95 yd, missed extra point (highlight:
    			 Everett fumble)
    	S.F. TD (27-30): Craig, 1 yd run. (highlight: fumble on kickoff
    			 return)
    
    
    	What a truely incredible comeback for the 49ers.  If the Rams
    had not failed on a fake field goal attempt the game would have
    probably been dramatically different.  I bet L.A. wishes they could
    redo that play.

    
    I think someone a few back forgot that SF beat Philly by 10 early
    this season.  Or that several people last year said that the niners
    couldn't go all the way because they don't play physical football
    (would someone tell Ronnie Lott that he doesn't play physical?).
    
    Last night's game just showed that the Eagles are a young team.
    With maturity they will begin to play with more consistency, but
    until that happens, there will be games like last night.  I wonder
    if Buddy Ryan is the one to teach the Eagles maturity.
    
    I am not unconviced that the Eagles are 2nd best team in the NFL,
    and I'm a Giants fan.
    
    Bruce
   
     

    Not to demean the 49ers,the most successful team of the 80's,but
    the victory over the Bears last year was a against an injury decimated
    team. The win in Philly earlier this year was more Montana magic.
    I just can't see the Niner's OL keeping White,Pitts,Brown and Simmons
    from knocking Joe out of the game. Can Steve Young do it? That's
    the key.

    
    The niners seem to make up for an average OL by throwing short quick,
    passes that don't give the pass rush enough time to develop.  Last
    year's injury thing just played into SF's hand.  They too had several
    injuries but hte real strength of the team is their depth.  If the  
    Bears had made some decent draft picks, they'd have some depth also.
                                                                  
    Bruce

    As long as everyone keeps underestimating then 49ers, they should
    repeat as Super Bowl winners. I agree that they mightn't be the
    top defensive or offensive team in the leagure but they've got the
    right blend to go all the way again. It won't be easy but this is
    the NFL and every team has shown that on the day not too many can
    be taken for granted.
    
    
    Ted. (Let's go 9ers)    

        
    re:
    	actually, they are the top rated offensive team in the NFL.
     Seeing as they have beaten both the Giants and Philly (not sure
    about Minn.. help?), I see the only real *super* threat as the l.a.
    rams.  that will be the super bowl game to watch if they meet in
    the conference championship.
    
    sean

    
    The niners have also beaten the Vikes.  I can't see LA posing much of a
    problem after what happened to them a week ago Monday.
         
    Bruce

    The 49'ers were 15-1 a couple of years ago when they ran into a buzz
    saw Vikes squad. The major difference is that they have played the
    toughest schedule in the NFL (-the Bronco's) this year and proved that
    they can beat the entire NFL. 
    
    I see (aka Karnac) a Roger Craig injury causing a loss to a Giant or
    Philly team in the NFC championship.
    
    Then we can here Mendez whine about the injury well into the 90's...
    
    

    
    Correction:  the niners were 13-3 when they lost to the Vikes. 
    The year they were 15-1 they trounced Miami in the 'bowl.  They
    would have been undefeated that year but Ray Wershing missed a game
    winning chip shot with no time left on the clock.
    
    The team has used the '86-87 season (when they lost to the Vikes) as
    a tool to remind themselves of what not to do.  Ronnie Lott was
    talking about this just the other day.
    
    Bruce

    
    	I have to disagree that the Broncos have played a tougher schedule
    than the Niners (could be wrong).  if someone has a listing of the
    teams played by the niners and broncos, could you compare them by
    adding up points for each team they defeated based on wins:
    
    	1	Dallas
    	3	Atlanta
    	4	NY Jets
    	5	San Diego, New England, Tampa Bay
    	6	Chicago, Detroit
    	7	Kansas City, Seattle
    	8	Buffalo, Miami, Indianapolis, Cleveland, Pittsburgh,
    		Raiders, New Orleans
    	9	Houston, Washington, Minnesota, Green Bay
    	10	Philadelphia, Rams
    	11	Denver, NY Giants
    	13 	San Francisco                      
    
    	does Denver get more points than S.F.?  (mind you I know this
    isn't the *correct* way to measure strength of schedule but I would
    just like to know).  thanks
    
    sean
    

    I'm saying the 49'ers played a tougher Schedule...
    
    The didn't play the Bronco's...
    
    (- Bronco's)
    
    Jeff

    An article in today's paper suggested that the rash of rumors about
    college players giving up eligibilty to join the pros next year is due
    to a proposed rookie salary cap that he league wants to impose in 1991. 
    Agents are reportedly urging college juniors to get out now while there
    are still big bucks available.

    
    	re: .32
    
    	oh, sorry.  but anyways, i think it would still be interesting
    to see who gets more points since most of the afc teams are in the
    middle and the nfc teams are on the edges.

The 49er's did not play the Vikings this year.

HTH.

daryll

    What people seem to forget from a couple of years ago-when the Vikes
    blew out SF in the playoffs, was that the two teams had virtually
    the same record, minus those fake practice (strike) games.
    
    As for this year, the Vikes have struggled on the road, although
    their last three losses (Philly, GB and Cleveland OT) have been by
    a total of eight points.  The offense didn't play too well in any
    of those games.  Conversely, at home the Vikes are unbeatable. 
    As the only unbeaten home team in the NFL, I don't see them choking
    vs. Cincy.                                          
    
    Then, beware Giants, you may see the real Vikes show up in the
    playoffs!  Of course a win by Philly in SF would put us at home
    for the NFC Championship, but let's not get carried away... yet.
    
    
    Spud

    
    Spud,
    
    The Vikes did not beat SF in the strike year, I think it was the
    year after.
    
    

VIKINGS LEAD WITH SEVEN PRO BOWL SELECTIONS
-------------------------------------------

The Minnesota Vikings placed seven players on the National
Football Conference Pro Bowl team announced today.  The N-F-C
team will face the American Conference in the Pro Bowl at
Honolulu on February 4th.  

Six Vikings were selected as starters, including defensive end
Chris Doleman, defensive tackle Keith Millard, safety Joey
Browner, cornerback Carl Lee, guard Randall McDaniel and tackle
Gary Zimmerman.  Tight end Steve Jordan was selected as a
reserve.  

The San Francisco 49ers and the Los Angeles Rams each had six
players selected.  The Cincinnati Bengals led the A-F-C Pro
Bowl team with six players chosen.  

Joe Montana of the 49ers was selected at quarterback and wide
receiver Jerry Rice was the only unanimous selection to the
N-F-C team.  Running back Roger Craig, guard Guy McIntyre, wide
receiver John Taylor and safety Ronnie Lott also were selected
from San Francisco.  

Three Rams will start -- Tom Newberry at guard, Jackie Slater
at tackle and Jerry Gray at cornerback.  Linebacker Kevin
Greene, wide receiver Henry Ellard and center Doug Smith also
were chosen from the Rams.  

Lawrence Taylor of the New York Giants was selected for the
ninth straight year and will start at linebacker for the N-F-C. 

Rookie Barry Sanders of the Detroit Lions and Neal Anderson of
the Chicago Bears were selected as the starting running backs
for the N-F-C.  Green Bay's Don Majkowski was picked as the
backup quarterback.  

In the A-F-C, tackle Anthony Munoz of the Bengals was named for
the ninth straight year.  He is joined in the starting lineup
by running back James Brooks, tight end Rodney Holman and
safety David Fulcher of Cincinnati.  Quarterback Boomer Esiason
and guard Max Montoya were selected as backups.  

Houston's Warren Moon was named the starting quarterback for
the A-F-C.  Christian Okoye of Kansas City joins Brooks in the
backfield and Andre Reed of Buffalo and Webster Slaughter of
Cleveland were chosen as the starting wide receivers.  

Bruce,

I think Spud is right. It was in '87 which I'm pretty sure was 
the strike year.

daryll

Just goes to show what kind of a steal he was in the '88 draft.

daryll

    How many Rookies have made the Pro Bowl?
    
    Cowboy
    

    
    Does anyone have a complete list of the Pro Bowl selections.
    
    If Michael Dean Perry didn't get a starting nod, its a crime!
    He was voted as the AFC Top Defensive player of the year just
    recently... by the coaches.
    

    	The Vikings did beat the Niners in the strike year.  I think
    the Vikings non-strike record was 8-4 and the Niners non-strike
    record was 10-2.  Just a small nit Bruce, but in the strike year
    the 49ers were 13-2, since they only played 15 games that year.
    The Redskins then beat the Vikings 17-10 in RFK and pounded the
    Broncos in the Bowl.
    
    				/Don

    Bruce, if I remember right, that was the year the Vikes "backed
    in" at 8-7.  In reality they were 8-4.  After the wild-card romp
    over N.O. and SF win, the Vikes were 10-4.  SF finished the season
    at 10-3 in reality, 13-3 with the fake games.  Vikes went on to
    lose at Washington in the NFC Championship.
    
    I guess it's our turn to knock you guys off this year.  :*)
    
    
    Spud
    

    
    It's not your turn.  If you remember the Twins also beat the A's
    that year, leading to a Vikes win.  The A's won this year, so...
    
    8^)

NFC:

Offense:

WR - Jerry Rice, Sterling Sharpe

TE - Keith Jackson
OT - Gary Zimmerman, Jackie Slater
OG - Randall McDaniel, Tom Newberry
C  - Jay Hilgenberg
QB - Joe Montana
RB - Barry Sanders, Neal Anderson

Defense :

DE - Chris Doleman, Reggie White
DT - Keith Millard, 
OLB - Tim Harris, Lawrence Taylor
ILB - Mike Singletary, Chris Spielman
CB - Jerry Fray, Carl Lee
S -  Joey Browner, Ronnie Lott

Special :

P - Rich Camarillo
K - Ed Murray
Returns - Dave Meggett
Special Teams : Ron Wolfley


AFC

Offense:

WR - Andre Reed, Webster Slaughter
TE - Rodney Holeman
OT - Anthony Munoz, Chris Hinton
OG - Mike Munchak, Bruce Matthews
C - Ray Donaldson
QB - Warren Moon
RB - Christian Okoye, James Brooks

Defense:

DE - Bruce Smith, Lee Williams
DT - Michael Dean Perry
OLB - Derrick Thomas, Clay Matthews
ILB - Larl Mecklenburg, John Offendahl
CB - Albert Lewis, Frank Minnifield
S -  David Fulcher, Erik McMillan

Special :

P - Reggie Roby
K - David Treadwell
Returns - Ron Woodson
Special Teams : Rufus Porter


Minnesota lands the most spots.  Atlanta gets shut out

Steve

    The AFC's leading punter did not make the pro-Bowl.

    
    how Moon made it over Bubby I'll never know. Maybe Bubby will be
    the afc MVP... ;^)
    
    mike

    
    Bubby Brister.
    
    
    Reggie White making first team is kind of shakey. He hasn't had that
    good of a year. Getting wrestled to the ground half the time doesn't
    help, though. Howie Long not making it is highway robbery. Greg
    Townsend lead the AFC in sacks last year and was jilted. This year he
    is at or very near the top again and shut out again. I am very happy to
    see Spielman make first team. I only saw him once this year,
    Thanksgiving, and he had an outstanding game.
    
                                                    HOOT
     

�                               -< whose bubby? >-
    
    sean, you really should start paying attention to things other than
    Worthy and the Lakers.  You are really missing something.
    
    ;^)

    re: -1
    
    	not if it is from the AFC!!!  :)
    
    	(so who is bubby?  brister???  really, i dunno! :)
    
    sean

    Re sean:
    
    Bubby Brister is the Steelers' starting QB.
    
    
    py

----I think Simon Fletcher (Donks) leads in sacks (definitely one of the
leaders). I feel he should have made it to the Pro Bowl this year. He didn't
even make it as an alternate. For the Broncos, Besides Mecklenberg and
Treadwell as starters, Kragen and Dennis Smith made the first team, and Vance
Johnson, Steve Atwater, and Bobby Humphrey were selected as alternates.

Mike JN
    

re:Mike JN
    
Why don't you just put down the whole team....

Makes me laugh that the paper had Collie boy whinning because the whole
team didn't make it...  RALLLLLLPPPHHHHH!!!

The others that you listed Humpty dumpty and Flat top wern't even considered...

Monty

    
    I can't believe Don Griffin didn't make it for the 9ers.  Part of
    his problem is that he has only one inty because everyone has been
    throwing at Pollard with McKyer being out. 
    
    Minny leads in # players again.  Wonder if they'll make it past
    the 1st round of the playoffs.
    
    Bruce

� Why don't you just put down the whole team....

Lighten up, Se�or Parrot,

	I only listed one person from the Donks who I thought should have made
it..... Simon Fletcher. For what it's worth, I also think Howie Long should
have made it, but the fact that he was injured earlier in the year probably
hurt his chances.

Mike JN

    
    	offerdall from miami was injured for the first 6 games of the
    season and he still made it for the 4th consecutivce time in 4 years.

    
    Long missed the exact same number of games as Dennis Smith, 3.
    
    I always love these Pro Bowl arguments. Offerdall and Smith have been
    injured and missed games but were praised by the media. Long has been
    injured and missed games the last couple of years but took heat from
    the media. The facts are that some of these guys make it due to
    reputations, not necessarily because they were the best at their
    position for that year.
    
                                                    HOOT
    

    It could be a lot worse, Hoot.  Like baseball, it could be left up to
    the fans........
    
    Hawk

    
    Meggett shouldn't go over Gray or Stanley for return yards.  Could
    be first time punt and kickoff return leaders come from the same team.

    
    Well considering that the vote is by the players so you must also be
    well liked too. I was happy to see the guys forgo this usual practice
    and vote Tim Harris in to the bowl this year. Alot of guys don't like
    him but he is one hell of a player.
    
    I was rooooolllliiinnnggg big time watching ESPN when the announcer
    actually suggested that it was a surprise that ankle-biting Jim Everett
    wasn't selected in front of Montana cause of higher individual stats...
    
    mike

    
    Hawk,
    That reminds me...Last night I saw a commercial with English, Lever and 
    Adams practically begging the fans to vote for the Nuggets for the All-
    Star game. Unbelievable!

>    Meggett shouldn't go over Gray or Stanley for return yards.  Could
>    be first time punt and kickoff return leaders come from the same team.

	Walt, Meggett may have been selected #1, because he got lots of 
attention in the last couple of weeks, and #2, because he returns both
punts and kickoffs, and is in the top 6 in both...

Jim M

    Just about every year, the selections go out and the qb slots
    change prior to the pro bowl.  Starters and backups decide to
    have their knees or other body parts operated on immediately 
    following the season and replacements show up in their place.
    
    BoB

The Pro Bowl/All Star/All-Everything picks are about as useful and fair
as the DEC Excellence Awards.

Take a situation like that guy from Green Bay (Harris?).  Anyway, he's
good.  I've seen him and he's good, but no one likes him.  Therefore
not enough votes.

Personally, the week after the Super Bowl, I'm ready to watch National
Full-Contact Nude Twister instead of more (and *meaningless*) football.

It would make more sense for the NFL to take and spend the money that they
spend sending these guys to Hawaii, on something useful and meaningful,
like putting up some homeless people, or donating it to charity.

Sorry, JMHO,
Chainsaw

NFC:

Offense:

WR - Jerry Rice, Sterling Sharpe		John Taylor, Henry Ellard
TE - Keith Jackson				Steve Jordan
OT - Gary Zimmerman, Jackie Slater		?
OG - Randall McDaniel, Tom Newberry		Guy McIntyre
C  - Jay Hilgenberg				Doug Smith
QB - Joe Montana				Don Majkowski
RB - Barry Sanders, Neal Anderson		Roger Craig, ?

Defense :

DE - Chris Doleman, Reggie White		Charles Mann
DT - Keith Millard				Jerry Ball
OLB- Tim Harris, Lawrence Taylor		Kevin Greene
ILB- Mike Singletary, Chris Spielman		Vaughn Johnson
CB - Jerry Fray, Carl Lee			Eric Allen
S  - Joey Browner, Ronnie Lott			Tim McDonald

Special :

P  - Rich Camarillo
K  - Ed Murray
Returns - Dave Meggett
Special Teams - Ron Wolfley


AFC

Offense:

WR - Andre Reed, Webster Slaughter		Anthony Miller, ?
TE - Rodney Holman				?
OT - Anthony Munoz, Chris Hinton		?
OG - Mike Munchak, Bruce Matthews		Max Montoya
C  - Ray Donaldson				?
QB - Warren Moon				Boomer Esiason
RB - Christian Okoye, James Brooks		?, ?

Defense:

DE - Bruce Smith, Lee Williams			Howie Long
DT - Michael Dean Perry				Greg Kragen
OLB- Derrick Thomas, Clay Matthews		Leslie O'Neal
ILB- Larl Mecklenburg, John Offendahl		Shane Conlan
CB - Albert Lewis, Frank Minnifield		Kevin Ross
S  - David Fulcher, Erik McMillan		Dennis Smith

Special :

P  - Reggie Roby
K  - David Treadwell
Returns - Ron Woodson
Special Teams - Rufus Porter

                    -< Who can fill in the question marks >-

NFC:

Offense:

WR - Jerry Rice, Sterling Sharpe		John Taylor, Henry Ellard
TE - Keith Jackson				Steve Jordan
OT - Gary Zimmerman, Jackie Slater	      >	LOUIS SHARPE
OG - Randall McDaniel, Tom Newberry		Guy McIntyre
C  - Jay Hilgenberg				Doug Smith
QB - Joe Montana				Don Majkowski
    RB - Barry Sanders, Neal Anderson	      Roger Craig, >DALTON HILLIARD

Defense :

DE - Chris Doleman, Reggie White		Charles Mann
DT - Keith Millard				Jerry Ball
OLB- Tim Harris, Lawrence Taylor		Kevin Greene
ILB- Mike Singletary, Chris Spielman		Vaughn Johnson
CB - Jerry Fray, Carl Lee			Eric Allen
S  - Joey Browner, Ronnie Lott			Tim McDonald

Special :

P  - Rich Camarillo
K  - Ed Murray
Returns - Dave Meggett
Special Teams - Ron Wolfley


AFC

Offense:

WR - Andre Reed, Webster Slaughter	       Anthony Miller,>BRIAN BLADES
TE - Rodney Holman			      > FERRELL EDMUNDS
OT - Anthony Munoz, Chris Hinton	      > TUNCH ILKIN
OG - Mike Munchak, Bruce Matthews		Max Montoya
C  - Ray Donaldson			      > KENT HULL
QB - Warren Moon				Boomer Esiason
    RB - Christian Okoye, James Brooks	     > THURMAN THOMAS,ERIC DICKERSON

Defense:

DE - Bruce Smith, Lee Williams			Howie Long
DT - Michael Dean Perry				Greg Kragen
OLB- Derrick Thomas, Clay Matthews		Leslie O'Neal
ILB- Larl Mecklenburg, John Offendahl		Shane Conlan
CB - Albert Lewis, Frank Minnifield		Kevin Ross
S  - David Fulcher, Erik McMillan		Dennis Smith

Special :

P  - Reggie Roby
K  - David Treadwell
Returns - Ron Woodson
Special Teams - Rufus Porter

    

    re Everett over Montana:
    
    Did they say Everett had better individual stats than Montana? 
    Which ones?  Not rating, or %, I think Joe has more yards also.
    Everett does have more ints.
    
    Bruce

    It has been a terrible year for the Cowboys, but they do have one
    player who deserves All Pro status and that is MLB Eugene "the Hitting
    Machine" Lockhart.  Has set a new individual club record for tackles
    and currently leads the NFC (maybe the whole NFL) in tackles with some
    170+ tackles to date.  He has played solid all year and deserves the
    recognition.

    
    I believe Bruce that he does have more yardages and they definately 
    said he had more TD's.....
    
    mike

     Lockehart has over 200 tackles.  He should be in the Pro Bowl.
    Really though,  does it mean anything,  I think not !!
    
    Big Game

    Last week Lockhart went over 200 tackles for the year. Unbelievable.
    Also, Kevin Greene should start over Lawrence Taylor. I'm sick of
    hearing how great LT is. He's not even the best on the Giants anymore.
    Sure he makes the great plays occaisonally, but I've seen him blow
    assignments and be out of position numerous times, he's also lost
    a step. Cocaine will do that to you. Banks and maybe even Reasons
    are more deserving from the Giants, IMO.
    			     Raider_Rich 
    
    

    
    Jack,
    The Pro Bowl might not mean much to the fans but it means an awful lot
    to the players. 1)payed vacation to Hawaii in Jan., 2) extra paycheck,
    3)large bonuses from respective teams in contract incentives, 4)feather
    in the players cap come contract time. In other words, it means a heck
    of a lot of money and pride that their peers chose them as one of the
    best.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    Raider_Rich, having a broken ankle as LT does might cause one to loose
    a step as you put it. Obviously you didn't see him at the begining of
    the year. The only thing I've ever seen Kevin Greene do is a sack a QB.
    Has he ever caught a back or QB 15 yards downfield as LT does
    regularly?
    
    mike

    Mike,
    
    	If LT would make the play at the line of scrimmage, he
    wouldn't have to make the play 15 yards down field.....;^)
    
    Claybone
    

    
    Not necessarily true Claybone when they run away from him most of the
    time, he can't be expected to make the play at the line....
    
    mike

     Hoot,  The Pro Bowl is a joke.......  Just like the All Star Games
    in Baskeball And Baseball.  Yea,  some of the best players get voted 
    in by the other players of fans but are they really the best at their
    respective posistions?  Sometime yes, sometimes no......  Most of the 
    time it is pretty close but some guys that really deserve to go don't
    get to because they play for shitty teams or are just plain not like
    by many other players/fans.  Howie is a perfect example of a player
    who made it to the Pro Bowl on past performance.  Kinda rings of how
    you and Monty keep saying "The Raiders WERE this and the Raiders WERE
    that" don't it.  LT is another that shouldn't have gone but did because
    he has a big name.....    I can think of quite a few that should have
    gone over Howie and LT but didn't for that very *REASONS*....  and you 
    can take that to the *BANKS*.....   Get It !!!
    
    
    
    Big game

    For those people saying LT shouldn't make it this year, how many
    Giant games have you watched this year. In week 1, Taylor played
    the best half, I've ever seen a linebacker play. He shut down the
    Redskins on his own. Just before the half, he nearly passed out
    from heat exhaustion. If he could have maintained that level of
    performance throughout the game, the Redskins would have never gotten
    back into it.
    
                                Steve J.

    Jim Everett is snubbed again this year for a Pro Bowl spot!
    
    Last year, he was the second highest rated QB closely behind a very
    efficient Marc Wilson (mainly because of the receivers, look at his
    fall this year), with the most number of TDs of last season, 31 I
    think.  Yet, Randall Cunningham, the 7th or so rated NFC QB was picked
    with Wilson, I forgot who's the starter.  The reasons: Wilson was the
    highest rated guy and Cunningham was the guy who got most of the press. 
    That seems to be the formula.
    
    This year, even a bigger crime against Everett than last year.  The
    same formula was used once again, of course.  The QB with the highest
    ratings, Joe Montana.  No complaints about him, of course, he is as
    close to God as you can get for playing that position.  He leads the
    league in ratings, efficiencies, TD-INT ratios, etc. etc., even the
    most important W-L column.  He deserves the start.  
    
    But Don Majkowski?  GIVE ME A BREAK!!!
    
    The Green Bay Packers are an exceptional team this year and I hope they
    make the playoffs.  Majkowski is a big part of their success.  But in
    no way can he be picked over Jim Everett.  
    
    Jim Everett this year once again proves that he can be consistently one
    of the league's top QBs, repeating if not surpassing his success last
    year.  Majkowski is just emerging this year, and in no way more
    spectacular than Everett's performances this year or last.  Everett
    once again leads the league in TDs this season, I think 28 so far now
    so if he gets a few more in frigid Foxboro this Sunday he can tie or
    surpass his own mark.  Think about this, leading the league in TDs two
    years in a row and got snubbed at a Pro Bowl spot?  Majokowski has many
    TDs this years as well, but at least 4 or 5 less than Everett so far as
    I recall.  And Majkowski was intercepted more often also.  As for
    ratings, Everett is the second highest rated once again this time only
    behind the immortal Montana.  Majkowski?  Is he 4th or 5th?  And did
    you see Majkowski's passing last week against Kansas City?  Pro Bowl,
    huh?  Talk about leading the team to come from behind, yes, the Packers 
    did that almost all season, but the Rams did that many times as well.  
    Against Dallas.  Against New Orleans.  Against San Francisco.  All 
    magnificent drives by Everett.  Now even Henry Ellard made the Pro Bowl 
    with only half a good season.  In the second half of the season, Willie 
    Anderson picked up if not surpassed Ellard's pace.  Who's behind this?  
    Ellard or Anderson or Cox or else, making it look like there's no 
    difference at all?  
    
    These days, when people talk of the elite (proven) QBs of the league, a
    new name added to the list of Montana, Marino, Kosar, Esiason, Kelly,
    Elway, etc. is who?  Majkowski-who?  It's Everett again.  Give me one 
    good reason why Majkowski is better.
    
    I have one, actually.  He got more press, the surprise Packs, Cardiac
    Packs and all that.  Sure, as a team they deserves a lot of credits but
    individually as far as the Pro Bowl is concerned, Jim Everett is a
    better player.  Just a low key guy getting ignored even in la-la land.
    
    Charles

    
    	I tend to agree with the Majkowski bit.  It had to do more with
    the fact that Green Bay finally had a winning season and maybe a
    playoff spot.  Majkowksi is a good quaterback, but in my opinion,
    Everett is a great quarterback (coming from a niners fan!).  His
    past two seasons have been exceptional and yet he has been snubbed
    both times.
    	When I look back at this season a couple of years from now I'll
    probably remember it as the season G.B. had a decent record because
    of the fact that they beat the niners, possibly made the playoffs
    and got their qb elected to the pro bowl.  
    	IMO Everett over Majkowki any day..
    
    sean

�    Last year, he was the second highest rated QB closely behind a very
�    efficient Marc Wilson 
    
    Did Wilson even take a snap last year?
    
    I think you answered your own question on Majkowski.  The Rams are a
    very good football team.  They have been consistently in the playoff
    hunt (if not in the playoffs) in the 80's.  The Packers came out of
    nowhere mostly on the back of their QB.

     I like Majkowski but I have to agree with .81........  
    Thats why I said that the pro bowl is a joke.  People
    like Howie Long and A few others always seem to get in 
    on past performance. Others like Majkowski make it on
    the sholders of the press.  And some like Everett don't 
    get in when the deserve to.  It's a Joke...........
    
    
    Big Game

    
    the reasoning is simple, Maj has more filberts than Everett. Everett
    like Eason will bite the dust at a moment's notice. Everett is blessed
    with possible the best o-line in football. Maj is a man, Everett is not
    and the players vote reflect that....
    
    mike

    While Mak is in the pro bowl, Everett will lead his team to a Super
    Bowl victory!!

    Re:.85
    If painting you face with charcoal and being a MAN and putting that kind 
    of a face and show on would get you into the Pro Bowl, and if the votes 
    are because of that, I would have to say that the guys who voted are 
    pretty dumb.
    
    If you think Everett is not a strong QB under pressure you ought to
    watch him play more often.  And how did Majkowski do against the K.C.
    defense last week anyway?
    
    Charles

    
    Charles, I agree with ya that the voters are dumb. Half of them
    only have a third grade education. The Rams are a contender with or
    without Everett, the Packers aren't even close without Maj. I guess
    this is what they based their votes on.  Plus Everett suffers from the
    John Elway syndrome....
    
    mike

 Re:-1  The Pack played the Bears last week and he did very well. He ran
    for TWO Td's and passed for another.

    I said Marc Wilson in .81 but I meant Wade Wilson.  Too much Patriot
    junks I've been hearing here in Mass.
    
    Charles

    
    There may be another reason why Everett wasn't chosen.  When the
    Rams went through that 4 game losing streak in mid season much of
    the blam was put on Everett's shoulders.  Those 4 games he was not
    very good.
    
    Bruce

    How is it Blades made it?  I have seen him in 3 games this season.
    He made a few good catches but he also droped at least one in each of
    the games I saw. He droped 2 certain TD passes at Denver. Maybe I
    just caught him on the bad games?
    
    BoB

    The race for the first draft pick is over.  The winner is Atlanta.
    Here's the listing:
    
    	Dallas		1-15  No first round pick
    	Atlanta		3-13
    	NY Jets		4-12
    	
    	@ 5-11  NE, Phoenix and TB.  I don't know in what order.
    	@ 6-10  SD and Chicago.  I don't know in what order.
    	@ 7-9   Seattle and Detroit.  I don't know in what order.
    
    Live from Charger Central....
    
    Glenn

Patriotsh get the 3rd pick...

    How about that AFC!
    
    Denver takes the AFC West despite losing 4 of their last 5 games.
    
    Cleveland takes the AFC Central by winning their last 2 games (Houston
    blows it by losing their last two).
    
    Stuggling Buffalo manages an AFC East crown.
    
    Two, count them 2, wildcard teams from the AFC Central - and one of
    them is the Pittsburgh Steelers who started off the year looking like
    the Dallas Cowboys.
    
    The 1988 AFC Champ did not make the playoffs.

    Re -1:
    
    Correction....Denver takes the AFC West despite losing 3 of their last
    4 games.  (Not 4 of 5).
    
    Live from Charger Central....
    
    Glenn

    The NFC beat the AFC this year in head-to-head games, 28-24.  The
    series was tied 23-23 going into the weekend with 6 interconference
    games, and the Rams, Giants, Redskins, Saints and Vikings all won.
    Pittsburgh was the only AFC team to beat an NFC team last weekend.
    
    RE:  Many notes back - KC played Miami twice this year and Green
    Bay played Dallas twice this year because these were the last place
    teams in 5-team divisions.  KC played GB once and Dallas once, Miami
    played Dallas once and GB once.  Next year, the Jets play San Diego
    twice and the Bucs play the Cowboys twice.
    
    John

   Here's the order for the April 22-23 NFL Draft:
1.x Dallas		15. K.C.
2. Atlanta		16. New Orleans
3. N.Y. Jets		17. Buffalo
4.y Phoenix		18. Pittsburgh
5. New England		19. Houston
6. Tampa Bay		20. Green Bay (Cleve.)
7. San Diego		21. Green Bay
8. Chicago		22. Atlanta (Wash.)
9. Detroit		23. Minnesota
10. Seattle		24. L.A. Rams
11. Miami		25. Philadelphia
12. Seattle (Ind.)	26.z Denver
13. L.A. Raiders	27. N.Y. Giants
14. Cincimmati		28. San. Fran.

x-Selected Steve Walsh in Supp. Draft
y-Selected Tim Rosenbach"  "     "
z-Selected Bobby Humphrey  "     "

    Looks good for the Pats, they have the 3rd pick, but in reality it's really
the 2nd considering the Jest pick ahead of them!
                                 Denny	

    Correction on sack leaders in AFC:
    
    	1.  Lee Williams, SD 	14 sacks
    	2.  Bruce Smith, Buff	13 sacks
    	3.  Leslie O'Neal SD	12.5 sacks
    	4.  Simon Fletcher, Den	12 sacks
    	5.  Porter, Sea		10.5 sacks
    	    Townsend, Raid	10.5 sacks
    	6.  Grossman, SD	10 sacks
    	    Cross, Mia		10 sacks
    	    Hand, Ind		10 sacks
    	    Thomas, KC  	10 sacks
    	7.  Holmes, Den		 9 sacks
    
    Live from Charger Central....
    
    Glenn

    Hasn't anyone heard the latest BO rumor? KC Royals have offered
    him something like 20 MILLION!! over 5 or 6 years to play BASEBALL,
    and leave his football hobby alone. Is that true?
    
    
    
    John

    
    	yeah, those stupid baseball jerks know that football is a real
    sport and bo might get injured.  i hope bo tells them where to go.
    
    sean

    
    I heard something like 5 years 15mill to play just baseball

    re .100:
    
    I have heard talk that the Royals are going to make Bo the offer you
    described, can't confirm if the offer has actually been made yet.
    
    
    py 

    			FINAL 1989 INDIVIDUAL LEADERS
    
    AFC Quarterbacks			NFC Quarterbacks
    
    		   ATT COM YDs  TD INT                  ATT COM YDs  TD INT
    Esiason, Cin   455 258 3525 28 11 	Montana, SF  	386 271 3521 26  8
    Moon, Hou	   464 280 3631 23 14	Everett, Rams	518 304 4310 29 17
    Kelly, Buff	   391 228 3130 25 18	Rypien, Wash	476 280 3768 22 13
    Kosar, Clev	   513 303 3533 18 14 	Hebert, NO	353 222 2686 15 15
    Marino, Mia	   550 308 3997 24 22	Majkowski, GB	599 353 4318 27 20
    DeBerg, KC	   324 196 2529 11 16	Simms, Giants	405 228 3061 14 14
    Krieg, Sea	   499 286 3309 21 20	Miller, Atl	526 280 3459 16 10
    O'Brien, Jets  477 288 3346 12 18	Cnghm, Phil	532 290 3400 21 15
    Elway, Denver  416 223 3051 18 18	Wilson, Minn	362 194 2543  9 12
    McMahon, SD	   318 176 2132 10 10	Hgbm, Phoe	364 204 2591 14 19
    
    
    AFC Rushers				NFC Rushers
    		   ATT YDs  AVG LG TD			ATT YDs  AVG LG TD
    Okoye, KC	   370 1480 4.0 59 12	B.Sanders, Det	280 1470 5.3 34 14
    Dickerson, Ind 314 1311 4.2 21  7	Anderson, Chi	274 1275 4.7 73 11
    Thomas, Buff   298 1244 4.2 38  6	Hilliard, NO	344 1262 3.7 40 13
    Brooks, Cin	   221 1239 5.6 65  7	Bell, Rams	272 1137 4.2 47 15
    Hphry, Den	   294 1151 3.9 40  7	Craig, SF	271 1054 3.9 27  6
    Jckson, Raid   173  950 5.5 92  4	Andrson, Giants	325 1023 3.1 36 14
    Stephens, NE   244  833 3.4 35  7	Wkr, Dll-Mnn	250  915 3.7 47  7
    Worley, Pitt   195  770 3.9 38  5	Riggs, Wash	201  834 4.1 58  4
    Hector, Jets   177  702 4.0 24  3	Fullwood, GB	204  821 4.0 38  5
    Butts, SD	   170  683 4.0 50  9	Settle, Atl	179  689 3.8 20  3
    
    
    AFC Receivers			NFC Receivers
    		   NO YDs  AVG  LG TD			NO YDs  AVG  LG TD
    Reed, Buff	   88 1312 14.9 78  9 	Sharpe, GB	90 1423 15.8 79 12
    Blades, Sea	   77 1063 13.8 60  5	Carrier, TB	86 1422 16.5 78  9
    Johnson, Den   76 1095 14.4 69  7	Monk, Wash	86 1186 13.8 60  8
    Williams, Sea  76  657  8.6 51  6	Rice, SF	82 1483 18.1 68 17
    A. Miller, SD  75 1252 16.7 69 10	Sanders, Wash	80 1138 14.2 68  4
    Hill, Hou	   66  938 14.2 50  8	Clark, Wash	79 1229 15.6 80  9
    Slaughter, Cle 65 1236 19.0 97  6	Rathman, SF	73  616  8.4 36  1
    McGee, Cin	   65 1211 18.6 74  8	Ellard, Rams	70 1382 19.7 53  8
    Clayton, Mia   64 1011 15.8 78  9	R.Johnson, Det	70 1091 15.6 75  8
    Brooks, Ind	   63  919 14.6 55  4	E.Martin, NO	68 1090 16.0 53  8
    Toon, Jets	   63  693 11.0 37  2	Byars, Phil	68  721 10.6 60  0
    
    
    

Bo has said he'll give up football to concentrate on baseball. But he doesn't
know when yet. $4million or so per year might give him an inkling.

	Anybody heard any word yet as to whether or not there will be a
supplemental draft this (next?) year? There are quite a few talented juniors
out there that could probably start in the NFL.

Mike JN

    There will be a supplemental draft if anyone becomes eligible to
    be drafted between the regular draft and the start of the preseason.
    
    John

    
    I didn't realige that GB had played Dallas twice.  Combine that
    with their playing in the weakest division in the NFC and their
    record doesn't quite so good.
    
    Bruce

    
    	what a joke.  i just saw the ad for the miller lite player of
    the year:
    
    	Randall Cunningham, Boomer Esiason, Jim Kelly, Don Majkowski,
    Joe Montana, Christian Okoye
    
    	Jim Kelly?????  Player of the Year??  please tell me this is
    a joke.
    
    sean

    
    no joke. alls one has to do is be player of the week once to qualify.
    Kelly before his injury was the AFC's leading QB by the ratings and
    by TD tosses....Some people do remember the begining of the year when
    they consider these awards....
    
    mike

Between Montana and Majic, flip it.

daryll

    			AP ALL-PRO TEAM
    
    1st Team-Offense:
    
    WR-Jerry Rice, SF		Sterling Sharpe, GB
    TE-Keith Jackson,Ph
     T-Anthony Munoz, Cin	Jim Lachey, Wash
     G-Tom Newberry, Rams	Bruce Matthews, Hou
     C-Jay Hilgenberg, Chi
    QB-Joe Montana, SF
    RB-Christian Okoye, KC	Barry Sanders, Det
    
    
    1st Team-Defense:
    
     E-Chris Doleman, Min	Reggie White, Phil
    NT-Michael Dean Perry, Cle
    DT-Keith Millard, Minn
    OL-Tim Harris,GB		Lawrence Taylor, Gia
    IL-Mike Singletary, Chi	Karl Mecklenburg, Den
    CB-Eric Allen, Phil 	Albert Lewis, KC
     S-David Fulcher, Cin	Ronnie Lott, SF
    
    Specialists:
    
    Punter-Sean Landeta, Giants
    Place-kicker-Mike Cofer, SF
    Kick returner-Rod Woodson, Pitt
    
    
    2nd Team-Offense:
    
    WR-Andre Reed, Buf		Webster Slaughter, Clev
    TE-Rodney Holman, Cin
     T-Jackie Slater, Rams	Chris Hinton, Ind
     G-Mike Munchak, Hou	Max Montoya, Cin
     C-Kent Hull, Buf
    QB-Don Majkowski, GB
    RB-Thurman Thomas, Buf	Dalton Hilliard, NO
    
    
    2nd Team-Defense:
    
     E-Bruce Smith, Buf		Lee Williams, SD
    NT-Tony Casillas, Atl
    DT-Ray Childress, Hou
    OL-Pat Swilling, NO		Kevin Greene, Rams
    IL-Eugene Lockhart, Dal	Vaughan Johnson, NO
    CB-Jerry Gray, Rams		Frank Minnifield, Cle
     S-Dennis Smith, Den	Joey Browner, Minn
    
    Specialists:
    
    Punter-Rich Camarillo, Pho
    Place-kicker-Ed Murray, Det
    Kick returner-John Taylor, SF
                     

>> -< Montana in a landsliiiiiide >-

What a terrible shame. How bad was he hurt? 

    Glad to see Eugene Lockhart made at least the AP second team defense.
    He had an amazing year stopping the run with over 200 tackles and
    also played on the passing defense. He's become a complete LB.

    Chuck

    
    	I can't believe that Majkowski got the nod for 2nd team
    	all-pro over Boomer Esiason, Warren Moon, and Jim Everett. 
    
    	He had a great year, but the other guys were better.

Jeff,

Are you serious?

daryll

    Majkowski deserved it over Esiason, Moon and Everett....
    
    How could you think otherwise?
    
    JoJ

    Boomer had the best game any QB did against the Vikes this year,
    but I also like Majkowski.  I had the chance to see him several
    times and he was the main difference in the Packers resurgence.
    That team was 4-12 last year and wasn't expect to improve much this
    year.  Majkowski had some great games this year against the Niners,
    Rams, Vikes (once).  You put a Lynn Dickey or whoever the Pack has
    used during the 80's on this years team and they probably go 6-10
    at best.  
    
    I don't like the Pack, but this guy is an exciting, winning player
    and deserves the nomination.
    
    
    Spud

    Not to mention, of course, that Don Majkowski was a Virginia Cavalier.
    
    Hey, admit it, you'd have been disappointed if I didn't say it.
    
    Go Wahoos.  Send the Illini packing ...
    
    Bob Hunt

    Courtesy of SF Comical.  I tried to put in the records of teams
    that have supporters in here.  If I missed one, I'll put it in if
    I can find time.
    
    TEAMS OF THE DECADE
                    
    Team   W   L   %    POR*  YIP*  CT*  SB
                        
    SF     104 47  .688 10-4   8    3    3
    Wash   97  55  .638 11-3   5    3    2
    Miami  94  57  .622  6-5   5    2    0
    Denver 93  58  .615  4-4   5    2    0
    Chic   92  60  .605  5-4   5    1    1
    Raider 89  63  .586  8-3   5    2    2
    Rams   86  66  .566  2-6   7    0    0
    Cleve  83  68  .549  2-6   7    0    0
    Giants 81  70  .536  6-3   5    1    1
    Cinn   81  71  .533  4-3   3    2    0
    Dallas 79  73  .520  5-5   5    0    0
    Sea.   78  74  .513  3-4   4    0    0
    N.E.   78  74  .513  3-3   3    1    0
    Minn   77  75  .507  4-4   4    0    0
    Pitt   77  75  .507  1-3   4    0    0
    Phil   76  74  .507  2-3   4    1    0
    Jets   73  77  .487  3-4   4    0    0
    SD     72  80  .474  3-3   3    0    0
    Buff   69  83  .454  2-3   4    0    0
    NO     67  85  .441  0-1   1    0    0
    KC     66  84  .441  0-1   1    0    0
    GB     65  84  .438  1-1   1    0    0
    Phoe.  62  88  .414  0-1   1    0    0
    Hous.  62  90  .408  2-3   1    0    0
    Det.   61  90  .405  0-2   2    0    0
    Atl.   57  94  .378  0-2   2    0    0
    Ind.   54  97  .359  0-1   1    0    0
    TB     45  106 .299  0-2   2    0    0
    
    *POR= playoff record
     CT = conference titles
     SB = superbowl victories    
                    

    the clowns suck no the jackasses suck ARF ARF ah shuddup you girly mon
    the midgets suck oh yeah the afc is a wimp conference BLAM BLAM hey you
    wanna talk a girly mon conference how come the big ten has only won
    eight rose bowls in the last nine gazillion tries ARF ARF ARF reeves
    should have been coach of the year no joe walton should have got it to
    win even one game with that jets team was a miracle oh yeah chuck noll
    shoulda been coach of the year who else could have made the playoffs
    with a qb named bubby BLAM BLAM sez you pittsbooger sucks oh yeah
    howscum sucks worse BARF BARF BARF bernie kosar is you no who parade in
    lake erie well that's a crock BLAM BLAM every one knows john elway is
    athlete of the decade and on and on the banter goes and when it'll end
    nobody knows probably with the two or three 49ers fans in here letting
    the final results speak for themselves... 

    
    Nice!
    
    		real nice...

    Good one !
    
    	That just got you a nomination for "Junk Noter Of The Year"
    
    Big Game

    Sorry, couldn't resist doing one junk note in here before the decade
    comes to an end...happy 1990 everyone!
    
    
    Paul

    
    Paul Yankowhatever reduced to junknoting.  What's next?  Wierd things
    must happen on the last work day of the year.    Go Broncos!
    
    Bruce

    
    Just read an article in the paper that amazed me, and should amaze
    the rest of the handicappers in here.  Some guy has correctly picked
    all 14 winners in Oregon's NFL lottery- on *two* seperate weeks.
    He has also picked 10 correct teams 3 times.  Yes, they do bet against
    the LAs Vegas lines.
    
    Bruce

Path: shlump.nac.dec.com!decwrl!sun-barr!apple!voder!pyramid!unify!csusac!ucdavis!iris!snapp
From: [email protected] (Steven R. Snapp)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football
Subject: NFL - The 80's
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 2 Jan 90 08:19:09 GMT
Sender: [email protected]
Reply-To: [email protected] (Steven R. Snapp)
Distribution: na
Organization: U.C. Davis
Lines: 103
 
 
Happy New Year football fans!  I imagine you have all seen
something like this in your local newspapers, but I decided
to post it anyway.
 
The following are the regular season results for the 1980's
for standings, rushing, passing, receiving and TD catches.
This list appeared in 'The Sacramento Bee' on 12/31/89.
 
It is fairly long, so hit 'n' now if you don't care to read
all of this stuff.
 

 
 
STANDINGS
=========
Team		W-L-T		Pct.		GB
----		-----		----		--
49ers	       104-47-1		.689		 -
Redskins	97-55-0		.638		 7.5
Dolphins	94-57-1		.623		10
Broncos		93-58-1		.616		11
Bears		92-60-0		.605		12.5
Raiders		89-63-0		.586		15.5
Rams		87-65-0		.572		17.5
Browns		83-68-1		.550		21
Giants		81-70-1		.536		23
Bengals		81-71-0		.533		23.5
Cowboys		79-73-0		.520		25.5
Patriots	78-74-0		.513		26.5
Seahawks	78-74-0		.513		26.5
Eagles		76-74-2		.507		27.5
Vikings		77-75-0		.507		27.5
Steelers	77-75-0		.507		27.5
Jets		73-77-2		.487		30.5
Chargers	72-80-0		.474		32.5
Bills		68-84-0		.447		26.5
Saints		67-85-0		.441		37.5
Chiefs		66-84-2		.440		37.5
Packers		65-84-3		.436		38
Cardinals	62-88-2		.413		41.5
Oilers		62-90-0		.408		42.5
Lions		61-90-1		.404		43
Falcons		57-94-1		.377		47
Colts		54-97-1		.358		50
Bucs		45-106-1	.298		59
 
STATISTICS
==========
Rushing
-------
Player		Att.		Yds.		Avg.	TD
------		----		----		----	--
Dickerson	2,450	       11,226		4.6	82
Payton		2,290		9,800		4.3	51
Dorsett		2,188		9,300		4.3	52
Riggs		1,788		7,465		4.2	52
Allen		1,781		7,275		4.2	52
McNeil		1,605		7,146		4.5	30
Warner		1,649		6,705		4.1	55
Craig		1,545		6,625		4.3	41
Brooks		1,320		6,343		4.8	42
Campbell	1,517		6,260		4.1	42
 
Passing
-------
Player		Pct.		 Yds.		TD	Int.
------		----		 ----		--	----
Montana		.639		30,058		215	107
Fouts		.599		28,301		172	141
Marino		.596		27,853		220	125
Simms		.541		26,235		156	137
Kramer		.551		24,775		159	157
Lomax		.576		22,771		136	 90
White		.599		21,229		152	126
Elway		.542		21,195		120	114
Kreig		.578		20,858		169	116
Esiason		.564		18,350		126	 76
 
Receiving
---------
Player		No.		Yds.		Avg.	TD
------		---		----		----	--
Monk		662		9,165		13.8	47
Largent		593		9,336		15.7	69
Newsome		546		6,360		11.6	34
Winslow		516		6,486		12.6	43
Lofton		499		9,299		18.6	44
D. Clark	488		6,518		13.4	48
Craig		483		4,241		 8.8	16
Green		468		7,684		16.4	62
Chandler	459		7,425		16.2	48
Morgan		435		8,087		18.6	47
 
Touchdown Catches
-----------------
Player		No.
------		---
Largent		69
Rice		66
Clayton		63
Green		62

Being a big Marino fan, I did find it interesting to note that Marino played
two full season's less than Fouts and 3 full seasons less than Montana, thus
acounting  for 1 full season worth of total passing yardage (vs Montana)
and about 1 1/2 games worth of total passing yardage (vs Fouts) during the
'80s.....Not to mention the fact that he has outthrown both in TD's...

One other minor trivia note...Officially, the decade of the 80's does not
end until December 31, 1990 (a decade runs from 1-10, not 0-9). Officially,
Marino has one more season to pass Fouts...And I wonder how it would affect
Montana's stats...

(Picky, true, but I'd still rather have Marino over Montana..)


-Mike

>    Paul Yankowhatever reduced to junknoting.  What's next?  Wierd things
>    must happen on the last work day of the year.    Go Broncos!
>    
>    Bruce


What's next, 'Quake?

Well, I was on VC last week, so I didn't have a chance to tell you
*my* New Year's resolution...

You heard it here first....NO MORE JUNK NOTING FOR THE CHAINSAW


read it and weep, Doug ;^) 8^) 8^)

'Saw

    Did anyone stick around long enough in .133 to see Largent had 3
    more TD's than Rice?  That is in 5 more years plus one that Rice
    wasn't a starter.
    
    Bruce

    
    Yeah but Bruce looks who's been on the other end of the TD's.... ;^)
    
    Of course Rice will break his record someday but considering the
    obvious physical gifts Rice has, Largent's accomplishments should
    not be taken lightly....
    
    mike

    Boomer Esaison is not going to the Pro Bowl.  He considers the game as
    open season on QB's and will not risk injury by playing for the AFC. 
    He claims that the defensive lineman are just waiting to tee off on a
    QB and that he can't trust a line that he has not played/practiced
    with.

    RE. .134
    
    You would rather have Marino over Montana.
    
    The stat you seemed to miss was TDs to INTs. Montana was the only QB
    on the list with TWICE as many TDs as INTs. The turnover seems to be
    the deciding factor in almost any BIG game. For his accurracy and his
    ability not to throw INTs in big games I choose Montana.
    
    P.S. Montana has not thrown a single INT in three Superbowls.
    
    Randy

    Heard this morning that Montana was named league MVP.  Majkowski
    came in second and Millard third.
    
    
    Spud

    Montana was also named offensive player of the year.

    Green bay head coach Lindy Infante was also the NFL CoTY. 
    
    

     I think I heard at lunch time that Joe Robbie the owner of the 
     Miami Dolphins died.

    Chuck

Yes, it is true.

Joe Robbie died at age 73...  They didn't give the cause on the
radio (heard it on my way to work...)

Chainsaw

    	Steven, Bob Ryan doesn't cover the Patriots.  He was the beat
    writer for the Celtics, and back in the mid 70's the Red Sox.  He
    now does a column for the paper.  I don't know about his knowledge
    of football, but at the time of the Patriots drug scandal the football
    writers for the Globe were Will McDonough and Ron Borges.  I forgot
    how funny Howard could be.  He was a very entertaining sportscaster.
    
    				/Don

    Joe Robbie died after a "long illness", whatever that means.
    
    I, too, saw the ESPN Sports Reporters show on Sunday.  I've blasted
    Bill Conlin of the Philly Daily News before because of his role in
    silencing Steve Carlton and bad-mouthing Mike Schmidt.   He still has
    nothing new to add.
    
    Cosell was wonderful.  I'd forgotten how much we miss him.  You can
    criticize his style all you want but the man is a true intellectual and
    he's a purist as well.   The "tell it like it is" style is wonderfully
    refreshing.
    
    I loved the story he told about the educator who turned down a high
    post at Miami in favor of one at NYU.  Apparently, the job description
    at Miami was to make the school #1 in both football and basketball.
    
    The "National Fantasy League".  Have to remember that line.  It's a
    good one.
    
    Bob Hunt

    I recently read "I Never Played the Game", Howard Cosell's latest
    autobiography (thanks, Jim.  Want it back?).  While it was at times
    exasperating for the huge ego, I found a lot of interesting items in
    it.  Leave it to say that Howard claims to practically have invented
    Sports Journalism and excelled in it, and he makes a decent case for
    himself.  Some of the more interesting chapters (if not for the way
    theiy are told) is that of the NFL and allowing franchises to move and
    the one on Ray Leonard.
    
    I found out Howard was going to be on the Sports Reporters too late. 
    Can anyone tell me what was discussed?
    
    Dan

================================================================================
Note 5.149                     Official NFL topic                     149 of 149
HOTSHT::SCHNEIDER "Some folks trust in reason"       13 lines   8-JAN-1990 14:00
       -< He overstates his role in everything, but he did participate >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   I found out Howard was going to be on the Sports Reporters too late. 
>   Can anyone tell me what was discussed?
    
>   Dan

	Howard Cosell was the main topic of discussion.

       Bronko Nagurski Also died over the weekend. Somebody had a good
    story about him yesterday: It seems he was running for a TD, he
    broke a couple of tackles, bounced off a goal post and ran right
    through the endzone into a wall. After the game when they asked
    him about the score he said: "It was a pretty good run, but that
    last guy hit me pretty hard!"
                                       denny

Only person ever to be voted all-American at two positions.

He played fullback AND tackle for the University of Minnesota, I believe
he was voted All-American in 1929.  He was also a charter member of
the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Who will ever forget the name or the man?

RIP Bronco...

Chainsaw

     Bronko was great.....   May he RIP.
    
     Now,  I have a question that speaking of Bronko has reminded me
    of.  A few years back I was watching some "NFL Films" show and
    they had this oldtimer on there that they were show films of.
    It seems this guy was on Defense and proceeded to knock the whole
    offensive back field out of the game.  He had this real funny 
    style of hitting.  Anyone know who I'm talking about  ?
    
    Big Game
    

    I wonder if that was the legendary Hardy Brown of the 49ers. He
    was a linebacker in the 50's who knew how to sort of cock his shoulder
    and then release it for maximum impact. I'd heard stories about
    the guy hitting one player so hard, the victim's eye almost came
    out of his socket (no exaggeration) ! I saw an NFL film where he
    almost dismembered this guy with one hit. Damn !
    
    BTW, if you get a chance, rent or buy "Crunch Course" from a video
    store. After watching that, I was ready to tackle a bus !
    
    DrM

    
    My father talked to a man who claimed to have played against Bronco.
    
    According to him, Bronco chewed tobacco while he was playing and would
    spit tobacco juice into the eyes of the guy trying to tackle him!
    
    Bob V.
    

    the Bears could have used "The Bronk" this year.
    
    (I guess that should read "last season" for any Bear fans.)
    
    Chip

Legend has it that the way the Bronk was discovered:

	Football dude is driving thru Minnesota in this rural area. He spots
this big kid out plowing a field.... without a horse. He stops and asks the kid
directions, and the kid picks up the plow with one hand and points. So he
signed Bronko Nagurski on the spot.

Mike JN

They showed a clip on the news last night of this phenomenal run
by Nagurski.  Check this out.

He lines up in what appeared to be the single wing.  He took the
snap, shotgun style, just as he came out of his three point stance.
The QB was fading back, trying to fool the defensive line, I guess.

Any way, Bronko busts through the line, and heads upfield.  Gets
by one guy with a cut, and this guy dives at his knees to tackle
him, and (no flies here) just BOUNCES off... Bronko rambles
to the sidelines and onto what one assumes is a TD, but they cut
the clip at that point....

I was impressed....

Chainsaw

    Re: Midnight
    
     I think that was the guy.....  He was absolutely amazing !!
    
    Big game

    Not to mention that Bronko Nagurski is probably the all-time best NAME
    for a football player.
    
    I mean just his name alone reeks of toughness.
    
    Can you imagine Truman Capote the fullback ???  Or Phil Donahue the
    midlde linebacker ???  Or Richard Simmons the right guard ???
    
    Nah ...
    
    Bob Hunt

The name game....

	Dick Butkus, Ray Nitschke, Tommy Nobis, Otis Sistrunk...

all manly names, for manly football players.

Anyone know any more?

How bout some girly-mon names....

Bronko played running back on offense, and linebacker on Defense. He was 235
pounds, which back in the 30's was pretty substantial weight for a footballer
(in fact, it's pretty damned good today for those positions).

Ernie Nevers said when Bronko ran with the ball it was awesome, and that one
person could NOT bring him down. He said if you hit him low he would just run
right over you, and if you hit him high, he would knock you down and THEN run
over you.

Red Grange said Bronko was just as incredible on the other side of the ball.
Red  was a pretty fair ball carrier himself, but he said running into Bronko
was like running into a brick wall. You just stopped... Wham!.. and that was
it.

Mike JN

Bubba Smith
Vern Denhurter
Mike Ditka
Conrad Dobler
Webster Slaughter
Hacksaw Reynolds
Snake Stabler
Assassin Tatum
Mean Joe Green

Girly mon names:

Rosie Grier
Berni Kosar
Toni Eason 
Phyllis Simms
Joy Montana
Flutie
Bambi
Cornelius
Claudie
Lavelle
Merlin

    Some more great football names ...
    
    Chuck Bednarik, Knute Rockne, Roman Gabriel, Bill Bergey, John Riggens,
    Sid Luckman, ...
    
    Some wimpy names ...  Remember, it's just the names that are wimpy.
    
    Gayle Sayers, Duane Thomas, Raymond Clayborn, Seth Joyner, Irv Pankey,
    Percy Snow (now *there's* a wimpy name), and any kicker especially
    Morten Andersen.
    
    Bob Hunt

It's good that you noted just the names were girly-mon...

Merlin Olsen, Rosie Grier...a couple of the more manly players
with girly-mon names!  
    

    		Lance Rentzell and Joey Heatherton.

    
    
    Switching briefly to hockey, Murray Craven is possibly the
    worst name for a pro athlete ever!
    
    
    Charlie

    Steven!  "Clay" is not a girly-mon name!!!!
    
    My choice for most girly-mon would be Dick Buttkiss (sp?)  ;^)
    Bob Lilly comes to mind too..........
    
    Claybone
    

    	Tough name:
    
    		Titensor (tight n sore)
    
    	Funny name:
    
    		Flipper Anderson

    Manly names:  Richard DENT, Sam HUFF, Jim Katcavage, Sonny Sixkiller,
    Bubba Paris, 
    
    Girly-mon names:  Nesby Glasgow, Yale Lary, Steve VanBueran, Marv
    Hubbard, Deacon Jones, Jack Ham, Andy Russel, Eddie Murray, 
    
    JD

Gee Bud, what's Flipper trying to tell us?

I'm not sure, I think he's trying to say that White Shark down there
interfered with him.

Gee Bud, do you think we should follow him?

Sure Sandy, let's go...I'm sure we'll find him in Davey Jones LockerRoom...


(fade as music comes up)

'they call him flipper, flipper, lives in a world full of wonder..."

    
    Manly:  Dexter Manley
            Jack Youngblood
    
    Wimpy:  Babe Parilli
            Steffan [sic] starring
    
    

    
    Correction. that should be
    
        Manly:  Manley
    
        Wimpy:  Dexter
            
    

But his brother Studley Manly had more testosterone than Roseanne Barr!!!!

    Flipper..... Flipper..... I don't even know her!

    
         Hawk, before REK says it, I will. You WOULD think of 
    Emerson *Boozer*
            
    Bull
    

    Wimpy :
    
    Bernadette Kosar
    John Elway (Sounds like Jetsons relative)
    Keena Turner
    DAn Fouts
    Fran Tarkenton
    Merrill Hoge
    Sam Wyche
    Ickey Woods
    
    Manly :
    
    Dr. Midnight
    Matt Millen
    Sam Huff
    "Night Train" Lane
    Willie Lanier
    Jim Braxton

    
    
    Larry Zonka ( and that's just what he did!)

>    Larry Zonka ( and that's just what he did!)


Tom, you forgot the "C", as in Czonka....see when he hit someone
it actually sounded like
	
		KA-Zonka!  

8^)

ZCzhainsaw

    Cthank cu, Cthank Cu, Cfrank!
    
    How could I possibly forgotten that?
    
    
    		Ctom

>>                         -< I thought it was Csonka? >-

 
I was, but it seems more manly with a Cz, you know....

8^)   

    Yeah, my lasted name used to be Sabo, in the days when I always wore
    lace.  Then, I decided to be manlier, and I added the `z'.  Now I shave
    my legs with Chainsaw's axe and I line my lace underwear with
    sandpaper, 60 grit.
    
    HTH.
    
    Hawk

    What about Jack Youngblood or Jim "Hacksaw" Reynolds.

    An All-American middle linebacker from Penn State back in the late
    60s went by the name of Steve Smear. My favourite is still the one
    that appeared in a previous note, Steve Stonebreaker, he was a
    linebacker with the Colts in the 60s.
    
    What about Jim Kiick who ran in the Csonka backfield.
    
    Ted.

    
    	Ex-Bengal Stanley Wilson was arrested Friday night for scuffling
    with police officers and possessing drug paraphernalia. This arrest
    comes only after a couple days that Wilson accuses two other teammates
    of joining him the night before the Super-Bowl in doing Cocaine. 
    	Around 1:30 a.m. Deputies found Wilson's car in the middle of an
    intersection. Deputies spotted a pipe in the middle of the seat. Wilson
    got out of his car and scuffled with police. The case is to be
    presented Monday.
    
    B.A.
     

       Lomax also has the last 2 years of his contract 'guaranteed'.
                                      Denny

    Regular Season records during the eighties:
    
    San Francisco	104-47-1
    Washington		 97-55
    Denver		 93-58-1
    Miami		 92-59-1
    Chicago		 92-60
    Raiders		 89-63
    Rams		 86-66
    Cleveland		 83-68-1
    Cincinnati		 82-70
    Giants		 81-70-1
    Dallas		 79-73
    Seattle		 79-73
    New England		 78-74
    Minnesota		 78-74
    Pittsburgh		 77-75
    Philadelphia	 76-74-2
    Jets		 73-77-2
    San Diego		 72-80
    Buffalo		 69-83
    New Orleans		 67-85
    Kansas City		 66-84-2
    Green Bay		 65-84-3
    Phoenix		 62-88-2
    Houston		 62-90
    Detroit		 61-90-1
    Atlanta		 57-94-1
    Indianapolis	 54-97-1
    Tampa Bay		 45-106-1
    
    John
    
    PS - Someone contacted me in mail yesterday with a question about
    the Bills at Patriots game in November.  Please send mail again.
    I no longer have your mail address

    re -1
    That means the NFC East is the toughest division of the 80s
    NFC East had 80% of the teams above .500 during the eighties.
    AFC Central had 75%
    AFC West had 60%
    NFC West had 50%
    AFC East and NFC Central had 40%.
    
                                Steve J.
    
    P.S. Plus those four teams all participated in Superbowls.

   � That means the NFC East is the toughest division of the 80s
   � NFC East had 80% of the teams above .500 during the eighties.
    
   � P.S. Plus those four teams all participated in Superbowls.
    
    Steve,
    
    I won't argue with you that the NFC East has been the toughest
    division in the 1980s.   However, I will point out that the Dallas
    Cowboys have most certainly *not* seen the inside of Super Bowl
    during this past decade.
    
    1981	Eagles vs Oakland
    1983	Redskins vs Miami
    1984	Redskins vs Los Angeles
    1987 	Giants vs Denver
    1988	Redskins vs Denver
    
    No Cowboys to be found anywhere.   They did, however, lose the NFC
    Championship game three years in a row from 1981 through 1983.
    
    Bob Hunt

    Thanks for the correction, Bob.
    
                              Steve J.

    
    Can anyone out there post the selections to the All-Madden team?
    
    Steve

    Guess...
    
    P - Cunningham
    Special teams - Meggett, Wolfley, Reyna Thompson
    QB - Majik, Elway, Montana
    RB - Craig, Rathman, N. Anderson, O. Anderson, Humphrey, Hilliard
    WR - Sharpe, Rice, the Wash. posse,forget the rest
    OL - Slater, McDaniel, Newberry, couple of others
    
    DL - Marshall, Millard, Doleman, Hampton
    LB - Taylor, Banks?, Harris, Swilling, R. Jackson, V. Johnson, Haley...
    DB - Griffin, Lott, Dennis Smith... forget the rest..
    
    Gee, think the Broncs would be on there if they weren't in the 'bowl? 

    Madden changed his mind on Elway when he saw him step off the plane
    in New Orleans wearing a double-breasted suit.

Path: shlump.nac.dec.com!decwrl!ames!ncar!boulder!tigger!rsk
From: [email protected] (Rich Kulawiec)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football
Subject: All-Madden Team List
Keywords: Madden, NFL
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 21 Jan 90 23:22:35 GMT
Sender: [email protected]
Reply-To: [email protected] (Rich Kulawiec)
Organization: University of Colorado at Boulder
Lines: 37
 
The concentration of NFC players may be explained by reference to one
of the criteria for selection: Madden stated that he had to see the players
in a game this season.  Since Madden works for CBS, which covers NFC
games, it is not surprising that only a handful of AFC players made the team.
 
Offense
 
Quarterback: Joe Montana, 49ers; John Elway, Broncos; Don Majkowski, Packers
Running back: Dalton Hilliard, Saints; Neal Anderson, Bears; Bobby Humphrey,
	Broncos; OJ Anderson, Giants; Roger Craig, 49ers; Tom Rathman, 49ers.
Tight end: Keith Jackson, Eagles; Donny Warren, Redskins
Line: Keith Kartz, Broncos; Randall McDaniel, Vikings; Tom Newberry, Rams;
	Nate Newton, Dallas; Jackie Slater, Rams; Jim Lachey, Redskins;
	Stan Brock, Saints
Wide Receiver: Jerry Rice, 49ers; Gary Clark, Redskins; Art Monk, Redskins;
	Ricky Sanders, Redskins; Sterling Sharpe, Packers
 
Defense
 
Line: Reggie White, Eagles; Jerome Brown, Eagles; Richard Dent, Bears;
	Leonard Marshall, Giants; Chris Doleman, Vikings; Keith Millard,
	Vikings; Dan Hampton, Bears; Greg Kragen, Broncos
Linebacker: Lawrence Taylor, Giants; Pat Swilling, Saints; Ricky Jackson,
	Saints; Vaughn Johnson, Saints; Tim Harris, Packers; Leslie O'Neil,
	Chargers; Kevin Greene, Rams; Charles Haley, 49ers; Matt Miller, 49ers
Corner: Jerry Gray, Rams; Don Griffin, 49ers
Safety: Chet Brooks, 49ers; Tim McDonald, Cardinals; Dennis Smith, Broncos;
	Ronnie Lott, 49ers
 
Special teams
 
Punter: Randall Cunningham, Eagles
Kick Returner: Dave Meggett, Giants
Kick Blocker: Ron Wolfley, Cardinals
Kick Coverage: Rene Thompson, Giants
 
Referees: Jim Tunney, Ben Dreith

You forgot:

Mascot - Cleat (Rottweiler) Phil. bEagles

	They had a film clip of him eating a sofa

Mike JN

 	We have reputations elsewhere........
    
    Claybone
    
>                   STKCSC::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]NFL.NOTE;1 >>>
>                          -< NFL - American Football >-
>================================================================================
>Note 146.14                     NFL rules changes                       14 of 15
>STKSMA::AHLGREN "No commercial potential!"           20 lines  25-JAN-1990 09:27
>                         -< A word from your sponsor. >-
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    RE: .8
    
>    I should actually delete this note because it violates the conference
>    rules, but I will let it stay due to two things. The information
>    that is in the note has been commented, and the abuse wasn't directed
>    to a particular person.
    
>    THIS MESSAGE IS FOR ALL:
    
>    One of the objectives with this conference was to discuss football
>    at a higher level than the one in SPORTS. During the last part of
>    this season I've seen the quality of the discussions detoriate.
>    This conference should discuss football in a civilized manner without
>    either people- or team- bashing. 
    
>    Could everybody PLEASE try to keep it that way, and that we next
>    season raises the discussion to the level it had last season.
    
>    Paul.
>    (Mr Moderator.)

�    One of the objectives with this conference was to discuss football
�    at a higher level than the one in SPORTS.
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

                    Maybe castration might help them ????

Mike JN

�    One of the objectives with this conference was to discuss football
�    at a higher level than the one in SPORTS.
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Are they all Hopped up(tm)???????

Anybody else hear this?  I guess you were wrong Mikey C......
    
Claybone
    
    
            <<< COMET::COMET$DISK6:[NOTES$LIBRARY]COLORADO.NOTE;5 >>>
                                 -< Colorado >-
================================================================================
Note 1060.37                 FORTY NINER fans unite!                    37 of 37
BSS::JSANDERS "Bart Simpson for Class President"      9 lines  25-JAN-1990 14:40
                             -< What's the deal ? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I just heard that 3 quarterbacks have tested POSITIVE for drugs and
    Elway was NOT one of them.... The three named were Montana, Kelly,
    Marino. This would not keep Montana from the Superbowl however it would
    keep him from the Probowl. Anyone else here this on the radio ?????

    Go Broncos

    			-Flash

     I can beleive Joe Montana on Coke.....  Just look at 
    the little girly mons eyes sometime.
    
    Big Game

    
    Hunter just spiked his Pepsi, just like he did to D.C's mayor.

    So what if they take a few puffs or a few toots?  Don't bother me in
    the least, and my kids won't be effected by it as long as the media
    shuts up.  And, it obviously doesn't affect the on-field performance. 
    Well, Kelly maybe.  :-)  So, what's the big deal?
    
    Hawk

    ESPN made the story, that was aired by a D.C. tv station, look 
    pretty hoaky.  It appears to me they were just trying to up
    their ratings.
    
    Hawk, for one thing, it's illegal.  Another thing is the league
    rules prohibit this.  If it were true, these guys would be putting
    money into the supplier's hands to make another shipment with.  One
    day, part of one of these shipments may make it to your kid.  The
    media isn't going to shut up either, true or not.
    
    Claybone

    Claybone, you're absolutely right, the media won't shut up about these
    things.  I still maintain that what a person does in the privacy of
    their own home and on their own time is their business, regardless of
    what "league rules" are.  The time is coming where DEC will have their
    own "league rules" controlling our actions away from the workplace. 
    Will you agree with and abide by them?  Heck, many of us get upset at
    what can or cannot be said in SPORTS, which, by the way, has "league
    rules" governing it.........
    
    Don't take this as "picking on you", Clay.  You just happened to reply
    to my reply......  :-)
    
    Hawk

       According to Will McDonough it was 'a Denver telivision station'
   that put out the names of Montana, Kelly, and Marino.
                                  Denny

    Sorry guys, but if drugs affect the performance in the workplace,
    you should be tested. It obviously has an effect in athletic
    competition, so I'm in favor of testing. I feel that if I'm shelling
    out $$$ (big $$$ at that) for a NFL game, at least I should see
    athletes at their best, and not coked out. 
    
    Strictly from a business standpoint (owner's), if I invest millions
    in a player, I will do my damnest to protect that investment - even
    if it means saving a idiot from himself.
    
    Doc

>       According to Will McDonough it was 'a Denver telivision station'
>   that put out the names of Montana, Kelly, and Marino.
 

Why am I not surprised that it was a Donk T.V. station!!!!

Monty

       He also said someone else threw Jim Mcmahon's name into the mix.
    So we have 4 names and only 3 openings.
                                     Denny

Hawk, it's a tough situation to say the least.  I think mandatory testing
is a presumption of guilt before innocence.  But, Dr. 00:00 does have
a point.  The owners invest alot of money in these guys to perform with
their bodies.  The owners probably sip champagne while watching them
perform too!  Sort of "do as I say, not as I do cuz I'm forking out
the bucks".

What do you do with guys like Ben Johnson?  He probably would not have
won those olympic races without the aid of steroids.  He could claim
"foul" because what he does in the privacy of his home is his business.
Do we have separate drug-aided/drug-free olympics?

On one hand, if you have mandatory testing at the workplace, people
will think twice before snorting that line which would decrease
demand.  I'm all for making it harder on the suppliers.  On the other
hand, I think people should be judged on performance alone.  If a
person abuses drugs, their performance will likely suffer.  If a 
person is busted by the cops for drugs, then the employer could deal
with them as they see fit.

I'm counting on me to educate my kid(s) about drugs.  Hopefully,
when he/they are confronted with the choice, he/they will make
the choice I consider right.  The people that use drugs are the
ones that cause our kids to have to make that choice.  The users
support the suppliers.

I hope DEC doesn't adopt a mandatory testing policy for it's
employees.  If faced with the decision to provide for my family,
or submit to a test............I don't know what I'd do yet!
I have nothing to hide, but I don't agree with the presumption
of guilt that the tests are based on.

Clay

ps  Sorry to ramble.  I didn't feel that you were picking on me
    either.

>     I'm surprised anybody believes it. (The McDonough article)

	It was reported on Sportscenter last night that the names
came from a Denver RADIO station, WBYG? Sports Radio or something
like tha, and that they came out in the morning.
    
Jim M

�    Sorry guys, but if drugs affect the performance in the workplace,
�    you should be tested. 

	And maybe someday, we'll have the technology to do a full brain scan,
and determine what OTHER evil thoughts and ideas or practices might affect
performance. And maybe they can even CHANGE us... so our performance is always
at optimum... and we'd be perfect little workers... and perfect little
citizens. Wouldn't that be NEAT !!??!?!?

MIKE `COUNT ME OUT' JN

    
    Here here Mike!
    
    Clay,
    DEC has already instituted a drug testing program. It's not everyone,
    yet, but it is there. It is scarry as to how right Orwell was. "Give me
    your gun, boy", "pee in the jar boy", where's your papers boy"...
    What's even more scarry is that the silent majority is doing nothing to
    stop this BS.
    
    
    Nightline last night said all Denver TV and radio stations denied that
    they were the ones that named names.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

     I 3rd Mike Jn's comments.....   Hoot make some good points too.
    The Orwellien society is just around the corner.  I don't want
    anyone to think that I am supporting people doing drugs in the 
    work place or while they are behind the wheel of a car or at home
    for that matter.  But the one thing that I am in favor of is freedom
    of choice.  (See yesterdays Superbowl note)  
    
    Big Game
    
    Stop this shit before it gets out of control !
    

    Hoot, I was aware of that new policy that came down.  I was
    referring to an *all* employee policy.  I think it will take
    a mass movement by the testees (go ahead guys :^)  ) to put
    an end to it.  EVERYONE will have to unite to stop the testing.
    Where do I sign up?
    
    Clay

    One day, Clay, we'll all be filberts!  :-)

�    One day, Clay, we'll all be filberts!  :-)

Come again?

Mike JN

    I think he ment the he didn't have any BALLS !!
    
    Oh well,  We all have our own cross to bare  .....  ;^)
    
    Big Game

    Teary_eye_ward!
    
    Claybone

    > we'll all be filberts....
    
    Ya see, Clay said something about us DECies becoming *testees*. 
    Testees..........filberts..........get it?  :-)
    
    Nevermind.

Re Drug Testing....

I have very mixed feelings on this.  Good points have been made by
all, and while I have very specific feelings on drug use, I have
some specific feelings on mandatory testing.

I am one of the staunchest supporters of my private life not being
controlled by my employer.  However I do feel that the employer
has a right to ensure that I don't come to work trashed.  I enjoy
drinking.  As anyone can tell you, I can exercise my elbow with the
best of them, but DEC does have a right to expect me to be sober
at work and when I come to work.  I don't think DEC has a right
to ascertain whether I drink during my off hours.

Drugs are a touchier matter...

Also, the drug testing procedures are not air tight.  People have 
tested positive who have never used drugs, and also, I'll be dam*ed
if I'm gonna have someone watch me pee into a bottle to make sure it's
my pee-pee.....

If anyone wants to know more about this testing stuff, I have a couple
of vaxmail names I can get you....send me some mail...

Sorry for the digression.


'Saw

    Chainsaw, I doubt that "someone" will be watching you pee to make sure
    it was your pee-pee.  In this day and age, it'll be on video tape for
    official review, sort of like instant replay in football!
    
    :-)
    
    Hawk

One Hellacioius thought:

	John Madden, with telestrator in hand, doing a color commentary
	on someone whizzing in a cup...

Gawd, it *has* to be monday morning!

    Both John Elway and Joe Montana will skip the Pro Bowl this year due to
    elbow injuries.  Montana's may require surgery.  Elway injured his
    during the first quarter of the SB when he hit the turf.  The injury
    wasn't serious and will probably not require surgery.

    Carl Mecklemburg (sp?) of Denver and John Taylor of SF will also miss
    the Pro Bowl.

    Rypien will replace Montana.
    
    Elway was already a replacement for Esiason.  Who will it be now? 
    Kosar won't play because of the injury (will he?).  Perhaps Kelly or
    Brister.  My money is on Bubby due to the popularity and respect he
    garnered during the playoffs.
    
    	--dan'l
    

   > Elway injured his
   > during the first quarter of the SB when he hit the turf.  The injury
   > wasn't serious and will probably not require surgery.

  Naw!~!!!  He was pullin his groin before the game and blew it all then!!!!!
;^)

    Monty...
    
     Sure is easy for you to come in here and SLAM(tm)
    the Broncos after they get blown out of the SB. I
    only have one question for you.  When was the last 
    time you could even root for the Faiders in post
    season play...   Been a while ain't it.  I got  $5.00
    thats says the Broncos finish ahead of the Faiders
    in the AFC again NEXTED(tm) season.   
    
    Quit being a JERK, Monty,
    
    Big Game

    John Taylor of SF and Mecklenburg (sp?) of Denver will also skip.
    Mark Rypien will replace Montana.  Rypien in the Pro Bowl?  What a
    laugher.  
    
    By the way, I read that Majkowski may not play in the Pro Bowl also
    because if he does not have a contract by Feb. 1 he will be a free
    agent and without a contract and the included insurance he will not
    play in Honolulu.  
    
    Charles

    
    	Just one question... Who the HELL is Rypien??? :)
    Why not Everett??  Oh well...  yawn
    
    sean

    I hope Everett if selected as a replacement will consider not going (or
    maybe he already refused, hence Rypien?), after being snubbed initially
    like that (ala Mailman's case).  Get Lomax, that'll be quite a way to 
    end a career.
    
    Charles
    

    
re:    Big Game


	Yeah it is easy because my team Won the big one 3 times!!!!!

But you have   "Big John" !!!! 8^))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

    	I think the Pro Bowl should be cancelled due to lack of interest
    from both the fans and players.  I never watch this game, but would
    love to see it live!
    
    				/Don

    
    Elway's bum elbow sounds like a cop out to me for his performance
    last sunday. I never saw him hit the turf that hard or come up favoring
    his elbow at all.
    
    I think Monty's has it right he blew it out in the bathroom. After
    seeing Janet though, I can't say I blame him for going that route..
    
    ;^)
    
    mike

    Here's the odds in yesterday's USA Today:
    
    49ers                3:1
    Rams                 6:1
    Giants               8:1
    Broncos,Vikings     10:1
    Eagles              12:1
    Bills, Browns,
          Bengals       15:1
    Saints, Redskins    20:1
    Oilers, Packers,
             Bears      25:1
    Steelers           100:1
    Chiefs, Raiders   1000:1
    Dolphins, Colts   5000:1
    Seahawks, Lions  10000:1
    Patriots, Chargers  100000:1
    
    Jets, Falcons, Cardinals, Bucs, Cowboys    1 million:1
    
    
    Hell, drop a buck on the last 5, you may get lucky.
    
    
    JaKe
    
    

    
    I'd rather drop 10 on the Lions and atleast have a chance, rather 1
    on the last five....
    
    Got to love the Steelers at 100-1. Atleast if they get there, they'll
    show up....
    
    mike

Elway hurt his ebbo choking....

his chicken....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH(tm)

    Want even a bigger laugh....Cunningham was selected to replace
    the Majic Man, and will start!  Talk about an undeserving selection.
    What a crock....
    
    How the hell is Everett not on the team?  And Rypien had a better
    year than the overrated Iggle.
    
    JD

    Can somebody tell me the scores of the two games the 49'ers lost
    this year?  Thanks in advance....
    
    Claybone

    
    	LA over SF 13-12
    	GB over SF 21-17

    re pro Bowl
    
    Dave Kreig will replace Elway.
    
    Jim Everett was asked to play in the Pro Bowl, but has a disc problem
    in his back, so he decided to stay home. Rypian was a good pick.
    I think that the Posse (the Skins' WR's) should have gone. None
    of them will ....

    Glad to see Everett bypassing a silly game like this.  The way the Pro
    Bowl is going, it may not last much longer.  Why don't they just have a
    All-Pro Golf Tourney or a Pro Bowl-ing Tourney in Hawaii instead?  Who
    needs a boring football game like that after one season?  Let's have
    some fun!
    
    Charles

How bout the seeing the Perdue Bowl instead...

That's where the Whole Turkeys take on the Perdue Parts team.  It
would be wild, wouldn't it?  Or would you all call fowl?

Chainsaw

    The Cowboys announced that they would not protect long-time 'boys
    Too Tall Jones, Jim Rafferty, and Everson Walls.
    
    The owner announced that Tom Landry will be put on the "Ring of
    Honor", but not right away, cause they don't want it to seem like
    a publicity stunt so soon after his induction into the HOF. (Whadaf*?)
    
    They also exercised their rights to all 8 draft picks in the H.Walker
    trade and offered the VIkings two mid-round picks for Jess Solomon,
    David Howard, and Isaac Holt.
    
    
    Former Bear RB Calvin Thomas, who served a 30-day drug suspension
    2 years ago, said he saw 4 teammates getting high on drugs just
    days before the 87 test.  Thomas said the players were steered clear
    of substance abuse problems with the aid of the team - help he claims
    he never received.  Bears management denies everything.
    
    Florida's Emmit Smith and Virgina RB Marcus Wilson will test the
    waters in this year's NFL draft (both are undergrads, BTW)
    
    Dan Reeves said he'll look into a reverse altitude theory suggested
    a few years ago by a fan to try to explain the Broncos routinely
    putrid play in the Super Bowl.
    
    Players started arriving for the NFL's version of the "Miss America
    Pageant" in Indianapolis.
    
    Sarge

�    They also exercised their rights to all 8 draft picks in the H.Walker
�    trade and offered the VIkings two mid-round picks for Jess Solomon,
�    David Howard, and Isaac Holt.
    
    The Vikes haven't answered on this yet.  The picks will be the Cowboys
    3rd round choices in '90 and '91 (I'm sure about the round, not sure
    about the years).  If the Vikes turn the offer down, the Cowboys will
    not protect Solomon, Howard, and Holt.  In turn, the Vikes would have
    to give up some draft picks per the original deal.  One of these picks
    would be the Vikes 1990 first rounder.  The Cowboys would not get all 8
    picks unless the players aquired stayed with the Cowboys.
    
    In other Plan B news, Doug Williams of the Redskins may be available.
    There is speculation that the 'Skins won't want to pay $1+ million for
    a backup QB.  Mike Rozier of the Oilers turned down a relatively low
    offer from Houston and told them not to protect him so that he could go
    plan B.

    
>    Dan Reeves said he'll look into a reverse altitude theory suggested
>    a few years ago by a fan to try to explain the Broncos routinely
>    putrid play in the Super Bowl.
    
 I think that if he looked at the game films he would see that it his
own stupid play calling that resulted in PUTRID play.......

Monty

    Also, on the PLan B front, speculation is that the Seattle Seahawks
    will not protect RB Curt Warner, who suffered through his worst
    year last year (personally, I feel the O-Line had a lot to do with
    it, though Curt has lost a step, and appear tentative at times -
    but he is a good receiver and my be worth a look-see)  The big question
    is if the Boz will be protected or not...
    
    JD

    re .271
    
    Realtively low ? Ha !
    
    Rozier was offered $160,000. He made over $600,000 last year. 
    
    And that's why the Oilers aren't going to win jacks--t !
    
    If this keeps up, I'm goona become a Clowns fan .... :-(

    Hey Midracingstripeinyourshorts:
    
    Why in the HELL would you move over to the Clevescum Brown(spot)s(tm)
    when the up and coming Steelers will be the AFC team of the '90s???
    
    Bernie "Fudgepacker" Kosar and the skidmarks are going nowhere but to
    the bottom of the AFC Central.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    More Plan B news:  
    
    The Oilers will protect 4 of their running backs and release 2 tight
    ends.  They will be going more with the run and shoot offense, so they
    fell the TE won't be that important.  The amazing thing is that the
    despite going to a 1 back offense, they are keeping Highsmith, Pinkett,
    Rozier, and (forgot).  Perhaps they are keeping them to trade them
    rather than losing them for no compensation.  They also won't protect
    some of their starting OL.
    
    The Giants will not be protecting Morris or Anderson.  Other players
    expected to be free agents are QB Rutledge, NT Smerlas, and QB Kramer. 
    The head of the players union doesn't think there will be much action
    on the free agent front this year because the owners don't want to
    drive up salaries again.
    
    The trade for Herschel Walker is finally wrapped up.  The Cowboys will
    be keeping Holt et.al., have 3 of Minnesotas high round draft picks,
    and will give up third round picks in 1990 and 1991 and a 10th round
    pick in 1990.

    
    Doug Flutie has been left unprotected by the Patriots (something
    that can be said about all the Pats' Quarterbacks this season.)
    
    Just pick 'em up, and make your parade arrangements. 8^)
    
    -Dick
    

    
    Mr Brooks...well...I guess we can fit you on, ya know, with all
    the Browns fans in this file....you never know...be sure to get
    a good seat.
    
    WOOF
    

    The 4th Oiler RB is Lorenzo White. I can see them keeping Pinkett,
    Highsmith, and White. They should try to sign Rozier and trade him
    for a wideout for the run-n-shoot.
    			Raider_Rich
    
    

    
    Houston runs a variation of it at times.
    
    
    Guess who said he wants to be a RAIDER, other than half of the league.
    This guy is a conditional free agent. 
    
    
    None other than Don Majkowski. The RAIDERS are interested. He wants at
    least $2mil a year. Green Bay is expected to match any offer, though.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    He's not worth 2 mill a year.  I hope I'm wrong but his magic will be
    gone soon.

    The Oilers have too many good RB's to commit to a R&S. they should
    not do it. 
    
    SF used two backs and a TE pretty well, I'd say.
    
    Keep the diversification, and they should go to the Super Bowl,
    but they won't go anywhere by letting 3 backs go stale, instead
    of 2 .....
    
    DrM

    Well, I guess we can see that there's no truth to the RUMOR that
    the nfc is better than the afc.  The pro bowl proved that.  The
    nfc had to rely on 3 defensive td's and even then, the afc would
    have won the game except for a bogus call which nullified an afc
    game-winning td.
    
    Claybone

    I nearly lost my cookies last night when the sportscaster
    announced Jim Kelly's new contract.  
    
    Around $3.5M per year for 6 years????  I thought Elway
    was doing well at $2M but $3.5M?  Kelly may be one of
    the better QBs right now--when he's on....but I question
    his leadership.  Maybe the Bills think he's one and with
    that kind of $$$$ they apparently do.  They must be
    weeding out the real troublemakers and must think that
    Kelly is not one of them. (Remember all the bickering
    the whole last season?)  For that kind of money Kelly
    will have to produce or will be run out of town by the
    fans.
    
    Cowboy  (go Bills)
      

    The Pro Bowl is not indication whatsoever of which conference is
    better.  Half the players picked don't play and the teams play under
    a very restrictive set of rules.
    
    The Pro Bowl is no better an indicator of quality than the first
    preseason game of the year.
    
    John

An interesting remark by Tom Landry yesterday.

In a sideline interview on the Pro Bowl, he listed some 'dynasties'
that he thought of to compare to the 9ers.

He mentioned Green Bay first, then he also mentioned Pittsburgh.  
Then he said that when he first came into the league, Cleveland was
going strong...

FWIW,
'Saw

    
    Can someone supply the score of the Pro Bowl for us here in the
    U.K. ?
    
    Also who scored the TD etc ...
    
    Many Thanks 
    
    Walker

    Final was 
    
    
    NFC     27
    AFC     21
    
    Don't know the other particulars, though.
    
    
    JaKe
    

Some highlights:

	
One NFC TD scored by Dave Meggat of the Giants, on a nice pass over the
middle from Randall Cunningham.  Later in the game Meggat was *wide open*
down the right sideline, but that stiff from Washington, Rypien overthrew
him!

Millard from Minnesota return a Dave Krieg (Seattle) fumble (WHAT ELSE?)
for a TD.

Tim Harris (Green Bay) made a diving interception of a Warren Moon pass.

Gray (LA Rams) returned a Warren Moon interception back for a TD...

Ronnie Lott (SF) had a clear int overturned on replay.  The refs, trying
to make a boring game more interesting decided they couldn't make a 
conclusion, on a replay where EVERY sane and rational person in America
(and probably quite a few irrational one too) could see that the ball
hit Lott on the ground, stayed on his leg, and then was grabbed by Lott.

The ball never hit the ground....he was jobbed by the instant replay(DORK)
ref....

Just some highlights...

Chainsaw

       According to Will McDonough Mike Holmgren will stay with the
    9ers.
                                      Denny

    
    The best part of the pro bowl was in the 1st quarter.....
    
    Durring a break in the action...the camera went to the stands...
    
    They found two girls in bikini tops...one was pink and when the
    girl noticed that she was on camera, she started jumping and waving...
    not to mention.....B O U N C I N G !!!!!   WOW!  I COULDN'T BELEIVE
    IT.
    
    

Damn!  Damn!  DamnDamn!

I *knew* better than to watch the f----ing hockey game first!!!!!


ARGGHHHHH!!!!!!

Chainsaw

  
>>    They found two girls in bikini tops...one was pink and when the
>>    girl noticed that she was on camera, she started jumping and waving...
>>    not to mention.....B O U N C I N G !!!!!   WOW!  I COULDN'T BELEIVE
>>    IT.
  
    
    Hey Whitehead, In case you didn't notice, those two girls were Bernie
    Kosar and Matt Bahr.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Yeah, I got her on tape.  It gives me a warm feeling to see girls
    enjoying a game of football so much.  (I had to do an instant
    replay after my wife went to the kitchen).
    
    Cowboy (still suffering with this damned warm feeling)
    

First it gets warm, then it gets blue...
You know what I mean, and they do too...

    At 9:24pm MST, on 4 February, the 1989 NFL season ended.....
    
    I think a moment of silence is in order.
    
    Live from Charger Central.....
    
    Glenn

    re. .284 and .286
    
    	Damn!  And here I spent all kinds of money on bait and only
    	caught one...;^)
    
    Claybone

After reading bout Jim Kelly's contract, Joe Namath jumped into my head.
    Does anyone remember the name of the Jets owner at the time and
    the terms of Joe's contract i.e. the sum and length.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    The owner was Sonny Werblin.

       Wasn't it $400,000? Don't remmeber the other terms. But I remember
    he signed it right after his last (Bowl) game.
                                      denny

    In keeing with recent history, the Broncos are looking at another
    old Cowboy.  Rumor has it that Denver is interested in Everson Walls.

    If that was really true about the $3.5M/year for the next 6, sayyyy,
    that's pretty good!
    
    Imagine, then, what the Bills would be willing to pay a guy with more
    class who knew when to keep his mouth and ego more in check, and who
    didn't have a real knack for throwing 3 or 4 game-losing interceptions
    a season!
    
    Or, how much will they be willing to pay Frank Reich, the guy the
    majority of Bills fans voted that they'd rather see at QB!
    
    

    re .29999999
    
    Seems to me B'Way Joe signed for three years for a total of $427,000.
    
    Can't imagine what the extra $27,000 couldabin.
    
    BTW, I've seen lots of notes debating whether or not he was the
    greatest QB of all time or not.  Performance-wise I would say he
    wasn't, and that's probably easily proven.  The fact that he had enough
    plastic in his knees to make a car seat should be considered...
     
     In every other way, he was easily the most influencial player in his era:
     He lent credibility to the AFL, was a known boozer and woman-chaser
    which added the Playboy element to the game, and in an Ali-like manner,
    announced that there was no way that the Jets were going to lose that
    Super Bowl (everyone laughed at him) and they didn't.
    Some of the things he did really changed the game and it's image.  What
    other guys can we put in the same boat as he, Ali, Gretsky or Richard, 
    Mantle or Aaron??
    
    rick 

    I was talking to a guy in Pittsburgh yesterday who is helping us
    organize a Black and Gold club here in Charlotte.  He mentioned that
    the NFL is looking into taking games out of satelite transmission or
    something like that.  In fact, there are already law suits against the
    NFL filed in South Florida to prevent it from doing so.
    
    Does anyone know any more about this?  Is it a rumor?  If it's true, this
    would crush a lot of relocated people who want to watch their favorite
    teams.  I must admit that the Browns fans have the greatest followings
    in distant cities (probably because they all liked the Browns but hated
    living in Cleveland); the dawgs certainly wouldn't let this happen.
    
    	--dan'l

First off, perhaps I'm ignorant, but what's a Black and Gold club?

Second, I would think, and perhaps this is a too common sense approach
to this, but if the signal is being broadcast, it's a transmission
everyone should be able to receive...  I don't think the NFL is right.

The fools should realize that they'll have more fans if they leave it
as is.  Let's say I move to Seattle or Arizona or some place where
they don't show the Giants.  If I have a dish, and can grab the signal
from the Giants games, I'll be a happy camper.  If not, I'll probably
join a soccer league and play on Sunday afternoons...


I'm getting so I hate big-time sports! Why???? $$$$$$$

'Saw

    
    re: -2
    
    	Ok, here is the scoop as far as the transmission goes.....
    
    	Currently, ABC/CBS transmit on two transponders...Telstar 1
    & 2.  NBC transmits in the C-band...which has to be picked up
    by a different type of feed horn (on the dish)(cost-aprox 2 - 500.00).
    These transmitions are direct feed from the stadium and cann't be
    blacked out.  Other transmissions, say by super stations and large
    city ABC/CBS/NBC networks (ones that have commercials) can be 
    blacked out.  For instance....on transponder Satcom 4, ch 18, from
    Baltimore...black out most of their baseball transmissions for one
    reason or another.
    
    	So....Yes black-outs can and do happen, but, if you take the
    time and serch through the spectrum before actual game time...you'll
    probibly find the game you want to watch.
    
    	I'm not worried!
    
    	Hal
    

    re: Black and Gold Club
    
    A Black and Gold Club is a Pittsburgh sports fan club.  If you haven't
    noticed, all professional Pittsburgh teams wear black and gold.  There
    are Black and Gold Clubs (sometimes under a different name, i.e. the
    Atlanta-Pittsburgh Club) all over the country.  They are called Black
    and Gold Clubs as opposed to something like the Charlotte Steelers Club
    so as not to be limiting to a specific sport.
    
    Thanks for the soap box!
    
    	--dan'l

re .-1


Thanks Dan'l.  I didn't realize that they had such things...

learn something new every day....

Chainsaw

       They stole their colors (black and gold) from the Broons.
    Especiall the Penguins, who did it a few years ago!
                                  Denny

    re: .310
    
    The Penguins didn't "steal" their colors from the Bruins; it goes like
    this:
    
    - The Steelers always wore some form of Black & Gold (with white)
    - The Pirates switched from black and white uniforms to modified black,
    white, with some gold in 1970 when they moved into Three Rivers; they
    modified the uniforms in the mid-1970's to the interchangeable black,
    gold, and white tops they wore through the 1979 World Series (and
    afterwards); the emphasis on the gold was partly due to the Steelers
    success in Pgh. and they (the Pirates) wanted the fans to identify with
    the winning Steelers.
    - During the 1980 Super Bowl (3 months after the Pirates had won the
    1979 World Series, the Penguins announced that they would switch from
    their blue and white uniforms to the black and gold ones for the same
    reasons the Pirates had; the Penguins wanted to be identified with a
    winning tradition and colors in Pgh.  In fact, the actual announcement
    was made during half-time of the Super Bowl when the network covering
    the game switched live to a group of 10 Penguins at a Mt. Washington
    restaurant/bar watching the game; a Penguins official announced at that
    time that the uniform switch would be made.
    
    Summary...while the Pens uniforms may be similar to the Bruins, they
    didn't "steal" the colors from Boston, but rather from the Steelers and
    Pirates.

    'Saw,
    
    	Where is this wonderful place that doesn't broadcast
    	Giants' games!?   :^0
    
    Clay

Gee Claybone, I got mixed up.

It's not that they don't show Giants games.  They do, but they only
show three of them.

	Giants  16
	Broncos 13

	Giants  39
        Broncos 20

	Giants  14
        Broncos  7

Over, and over, and over again....

8^)

Chainsaw

    RE: .10
    
    The reply in .11 is correct.  However, when the Penguins did switch to
    Black and Gold, Boston protested saying that those were its colors. 
    The NHL laughed at the protest.  
    
    RE.11
    
    Didn't the Pirates have gold in their uniforms earlier than the 60s?  I
    thought I remember them having gold P's on their caps in the 50s (which
    is before my time so I can't be sure).  I know the Pirates once had sky
    blue in their uniforms, though I'm not sure when or for how long.
    
    Anyway, gold has always been a Pittsburgh sports color.  The Steelers
    and the Panthers both have had it since color-schemed uniforms came to
    be.  And, of course, one of Pittsburgh's many nicknames (both good and
    bad) is the Golden Triangle.
    
    	--dan'l

    And then there is the case of the LA Kings forgoing the purple and gold
    (the colors normally associated with kings) in favor of the Raider
    silver and black.

    re: .315
    
    The Pirates did have a gold "P" on the black caps they wore from the
    late 40's or 50's until mid-1970, so I guess technically they always 
    had some gold in their uniforms.   

           <<< OURGNG::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
                 -< OURGNG::SPORTS - Digital's daily tabloid >-
================================================================================
Note 5.307                     Official NFL topic                     307 of 317
ROULET::WHITEHAIR "Let it snow!"                     23 lines  14-FEB-1990 09:24
                     -< WHAT???  NO BROWNS GAME?  NO WAY! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    re: -2
    
    	Ok, here is the scoop as far as the transmission goes.....
    
>    	Currently, ABC/CBS transmit on two transponders...Telstar 1
>   & 2.  NBC transmits in the C-band...which has to be picked up
>   by a different type of feed horn (on the dish)(cost-aprox 2 - 500.00).
  
    This isn't the way it is nor has it ever been this way. CBS
    uplinks to Telestar 1 and 2, Comstar 4 and host of other SATELITES.
    During the football season if a certain NFC game can't be found
    on these Satelites than a search of Westar 5 or the Spacenet 1,2 or
    3 will cheer you up. ALL NFC games can be found on CBS Unscrambled
    except those games in which a AFC team is visting a NFC team. In
    this exception NBC has the broadcast rights and has in the past
    scrambled most of there Q band feeds. (BTW CBS and ABC broadcast in
    C BAND and NBC in Q band, NBC also has one C band transmission at
    Satcom F1R, transponder 8.) Q Band is kind of a option that you
    can purchase for your dish. If you got a Q band READY reciever
    than for a small fee of $500 you can catch all the AFC games that
    aren't scarmbled. (Last time I heard NBC was getting away from
    scrambling there football feeds.) For your money you get a duel 
    feed feedhorn and I believe two LNB's. 


  > Other transmissions, say by super stations and large
  > city ABC/CBS/NBC networks (ones that have commercials) can be blacked out.
    Probably the only time you'll ever see football game blacked out....
    is in the area of the game. You will never see this on Satelite.  
    Superstations only have rights to Pre-season games so I doubt
    you'd ever see a blackout.
        
  > Baltimore...black out most of their baseball transmissions for one
  > reason or another.
  
    HTS (Home Team Sports) is a scrambled network on Satelite. It can be 
    bought for around $15 bucks a week.  I doubt they've ever blacked out
    a sporting advent. There programing is much like Sportschannel, NESN,
    MSG, ESPN and others.
    


    Mark    

    re .318
    
    Excusae me, but in Houston we used to get almost every football
    on CBS and NBC, except that sometimes we couldn't find Oilers games to 
    save our lives. And these would be the *home* games for Houston.
    
    Why was that ?
    
    Doc 

       You said you could get football games in Houscum, that's why you
    couldn't get the Oilspots. Simple really.
       BTW, Home Team Sports carries Capitals, Orioles and Bullets games.
                                                 Denny

    RE: .318
    
    Did you have a dish?  If you did, don't know why.  If you were just
    trying to pick it up off the local station, a game has to be sold out
    before it can be shown locally.  
    
    	--dan'l

    No this was off the dish....one theory was that some games were
    transmitted via phone lines, hence no dish in the world would help,
    but I couldn't be sure. Could it be that another satillite had the
    games ?

    
    RE: Mark AJA, whatever.....
    
    	Geesh, can you get off my back now!  Holly cow, I never said
    that I was the expert.....as you are?
    
    	I don't want to get into a know it all match, but, all I said
    is that CBS and ABC transmit directly to Telestar...It is a direct
    transmit if you get no commercials, no anouncers, and you pick up
    the game 2 or 3 hours before game time.  This type of transmition
    can not be scrambled!  If it did, who would be able to use it?
    This is unlike the cable programs where the down link does the
    unscrambling.  
    
    	Reguarding the Super Stations....a mistake by me....I really
    someone would have gotten the idea.  Its the large city stations,
    ie; Boston, Chicago, LA, etc that actually transmit commercials
    that could scramble.  
    
    	Well then, I wonder what it means when I see
    
    		"BLACKOUT IN AFFECT FOR THIS PROGRAM"
    
    	Hmmmmm, It must mean that it isn't blacked out.?
    
    	In any rate, I really can't see the blackout that was mentioned
    really bothering many people.
    
    	Hal

Seem's that  I recall that next season the Networks are swappin games 
around....

The AFC West is going to be carried by CBS... we used to be NBC
The AFC central is going to NBC
and the AFC east.. who cares!!!  ;^)

I was thinking about a Ku band reciever but CBS can be picked up mostly
out west here by C band...

Does anyone know the exact Network coverage for next season????


monty

    
    re:  Monty
    
    	Oh no, I certainly don't like the sound of that.  I hate NBC!
    I have to watch it on Satcom 2 (good reception but, they don't play
    the games every weekend) or I have to watch it on F1, as Mark said.
    The only thing wrong with this is that its soo low to the ground
    that I don't get very good reception at all, but, if I can't get
    the game anywhere else, I watch it with fuzz.
    
    	Mark, Ok, so I also got the C and the Ku band mixed up...but...
    what is the Q band???? 
    
    	Monty, How can you pick up Ku from a C band receiver?  Where
    do you find them???
    
    	Hal
    

    
>    	Monty, How can you pick up Ku from a C band receiver?  Where
>    do you find them???
    
 re:   	Hal
   
I was thinking of buying a Ku band reciever and feedhorn... I do not think
that you could change the feedhorn only since the I.F. freq is very
much different 70mhz as related to i think 200mhz or something like that...
Glenn would know more about this since he watches all the Chargers games...

Yeah... NBC really sips(tm) when it comes to coverage of games, I would
not wish any of their coverage on anyone but hey we won't have to put
up with them anymore...  for awhile....

monty
 

    Are you sure about that AFC coverage, Monty?  I haven't heard anything
    about it.  Maybe some of the AFC west games will be on CBS because they
    will be playing NFC teams those days.

       None of that stuff will be decided until the NFL signs a new TV
    contract.
                                             Denny

    
    Correct, Denny. It is just speculation that the AFC will go to CBS and
    the NFC will go to NBC. I have also heard that ABC will give up Monday
    Night Football to NBC and pick up the AFC contract. Time will tell.
    

    Anybody know what network had the best ratings???
    
    Hal, sorry if I sounded like I was riding you. This was not my
    intention. Q band is just a higher frequency that certain
    stations or networks use to transmit their programing. My
    Channel Master is Q ready. It will decode this frequency if
    I have the right set up outside. A couple of years ago I
    checked it out and it would of cost me $500.00 to have with
    my C band. If your reciever is not Q ready than it will cost
    a little more.
    
    The only thing I have ever seen Blacked out...was wrestlmannia stuff
    and some boxing matches however these can be bought and recieved
    with a dish.
    
    Mark

    I got a full set of the official NFL rules from Art McNally yesterday,
    so now I should be able to quote chapter and verse when a question
    comes up.
    
    John

       John, cain you look up the section on the special rules favoring the
    Donks? Or is there an 18-page gap in the rules? I'll bet Art left that
    'secret' part out, didn't he?
                                      Denny

    The NFL has granted permission for juniors to enter the draft.  Major
    Harris has declared himself available.  Sounds like the talent in this
    year's draft got better practically over night.

This year's draft is looking pretty good, but next year is going to stink
to high heaven.

Mike

    
    Yep, Harris finally made it official. Hey Doc, it was reported last
    night on ESPN's Sportscenter that Harris ranks as "the 10th best QB in
    this year's draft". Apparently I'm not the only one that thinks he is
    highly over-rated. I don't think I can name 10 QBs that will be in this
    years' draft without looking them up.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

       Major also advised Ware to come out this year.
                                                   Denny

    Tough decision for Andre. He he waits, barring injury, or a stinko
    senior year, he will be the top QB in the draft (knock on wood).
    
    However, he could be a 'slotted' player, if the rumors are true.
    
    There is definitely a lot of dollars riding on his decision, that's
    for sure. But will he get more if he leaves now, or waits ?
    
    Doc

    Hmm, Harris and Ware -- and the Pats with the 3rd pick...........
    
    -- dg

    There is a cover story in the newest issue of Product Insight, a DEC
    product news magazine published by DEC, on DEC use in the NFL, titled
    in the cover, "Using a VAX Formation," and in the article "VAX Network
    Leading the League into the 1990s."
    
    The helmuts for 6 teams, Denver, Buffalo, S.F., S.D., Cleveland and
    Giants, were on the cover.  Four quotes from teams were highlighted in
    the article next to a picture of the teamss helmuts:
    
    "Football is still going to be football, regardless of computers, but
    we have become dependent on them for the success of our daily
    operations."  Troy Campagna, S.F. 49ers, information systems
    
    "Some reports that the computer can produce would take forever to do
    manually.  There's only one week between games and the coaches need to
    be prepared for every Sunday, so the reports are pretty important to
    them."  Ary Kalika, Denver Broncos, information systems
    
    "If we're on the road, we talk to another club over the network about
    accommodations, ticket requests, and even what the weather's like."
    Bill Consoli, L.A. Rams, information systems
    
    "The network has helped immensely.  It's much more reliable than the
    old (Western Unions's) TWX system.  The big advantage is that you 
    can go straight from doing something on your desk and send it 
    anywhere in the league."  George Hoffman, Cleveland Browns, 
    information system
    
    Some other interesting points:  The NFL makes info available to each
    club at the same time electronically so that the competitors receive it
    all at the same time.  A network extends across the country linking
    VAXes in each team's office and the league headquarter.
    
    Each team originally received one uVAX II but some have upgraded to
    uVAX 3600s.  "Some teams, such as the New York Giants and the Cleveland
    Browns, track players' weight patterns and training schedules; others
    like the Minnesota Vikings and the Los Angeles Rams, run sophisticated
    game analysis.  The NFL now invests close to a million dollars a year
    in Digital equipment and services."
    
    "Although the ALL-IN-1 messaging software carries memos more commonly
    associated with office information, the NFL uses the network for
    football activities.  Some of these include:
    
    * Exchange of player contracts
    * Balloting or Pro Bowl teams
    * Maintaining officials' schedules
    * Sharing of press releases
    * Processing Super Bowl information"
    
    "The main office conducts the NFL draft in April.  After a team
    representative chooses a player, the information is entered into the
    local VAXcluster.  A software program compiles facts about the player
    from the VAXcluster database, including college, position, personal
    characteristics.  The application formats the data and sends it out
    instantaneously to the 28 teams via the network."
    
    ....
    
    Check in our in your site library :) if you do not receive it directly.
    
    Charles

    Correction:  It was a Vikings helmut on the cover not a Charger's.
    They did it (also the quotes) according to who was in the playoffs.
    
    Charles

    correction:  it's helmets not helmuts.  Helmuts are what are found in
    Cleveland's Dawg Pound ;^)

    Yes, of course....

    I work pretty closely with the Patriots computer department in my
    statistician's job.  The MicroVax and ALL-IN-1 were a step out of
    the dark ages for the NFL.  Telex isn't much better than 19th century
    technology.
    
    We have a computerized stats system we've been using for the last
    5 seasons in parallel with our manual effort.  There was also a
    good system developed for the Bears that I saw when they came to
    play us in 1988.  The two best features of these systems have merged
    and a standard system was tested in the NFC Central this year. 
    After the success of its test at the Super Bowl, it looks like the
    NFC Central and AFC East will be the pilot sites for the system
    for next year.
    
    Unlike most years, it's going to be a busy off-season for me.
    
    John
    

    Can anyone tell me what the new name for the NFL conference is ?
    I seem to have some trouble accessing it.
    Thanks,    Wayne

    Same node as NFL, but it's now called AMERICAN_FOOTBALL
    
    John

    The NFL has added TWO more wildcard teams to the play-off picture for
    next season. I expect one for the NFC and one for the AFC. It seems
    ABC signed a contract for around $900,000,000 that includes all
    Monday night games, plus one Super Bowl. They demanded more and
    the more appears to be at least one Wild card game a year through the
    years 90-94.
    
    The Pack
    

Speaking of the Pack...

I'm currently reading "Run to Daylight" by Vince Lombardi.

I would *highly* recommend this book to any football fan.  There
are few who will disagree with me when I say Lombardi was one
of the greatest coaches whoever lived, perhaps even the greatest
(although there are some who would debate that 8^))

Anyway, if you haven't read it, check it out...It's VERY interesting...

Chainsaw

       They also added a week to the season so each team will get 1 week
    off. This will also limit the time between conference champeenships and
    the Super Bowl to 1 week instead of 2. This will play hell with fans
    trying to make arrangements to go.
                                       Denny

    re .349
    
    yup chainsaw,
    
    Run to Daylight is a good one.  
    
    Also of interest is the biography of Lombardi edited by Jerry Kramer
    called "Winning isn't Everything" (?).  It is basically a compilation
    of anecdotes from all his former collegues and players.
    
    I can never get over what a motivator Lombardi was.  He could get 'em
    believing anything....
    
    rick

The neat thing Rick, is that so many of his former players who
have excelled in *life*, have attributed their success to
having played under Lombardi.

Not to get on a tangent, but I think it should be required
reading for all management types around here....

latered,
Chainsaw

      Hi All,
    
        I read 'Run to Daylight' many years ago.  Yeah, that was
        a good book!  I still have it; I think it's a first printing.
        I've read the Kramer books too including Distant Replay.
    
        Lombardi sure was something.  It would be interesting how
        he would have adapted to the changing football player (how
        they are as people).
    
        Kramer wrote a book on Lombardi that was real good too.
    
                                            Tony

       Instant replay has survived for another year.
       The Raiders are moving back to Oakland after their lease expires in
    2 years. Al Davis ends up stiffing Irwindale for $10million
    (non-refundable).
                                                 Denny

    
    He didn't "stiff" anyone. There was never any committment to go to
    Irwindale. 

    Of course he didn't stiff anyone, and now that he has a handsome
    wallet he is going to fund an investigation into the "Immaculate
    Reception" play for the good of the league.

Chuck

    The replay rule is still in effect with a couple of small changes.  The
    replay official will not be able to hear the broadcasters while
    reviewing the play in question.  All replays must be resolved within 2
    minutes.
    
    CBS will again be carrying the NFC while NBC gets the the AFC.  ABC,
    NBC, and CBS will each get a Super Bowl in the next three years.

�    The replay rule is still in effect with a couple of small changes.  The
�    replay official will not be able to hear the broadcasters while
�    reviewing the play in question.  All replays must be resolved within 2
�    minutes.
    
Damn!  Damn!  Damn Damn!

    
>    CBS will again be carrying the NFC while NBC gets the the AFC.  ABC,


Double DAM!!!!!

    
    I heard that in order to shorten NFL games to less than 3 hours the NFL
    was considering and/or had adopted the following changes:
    
    1)  Clock starts with the placement of the ball following out of bounds
        plays (don't know about incompletions)
    
    2)  Halftime reduced from 15 to 12 minutes.  
    
    #1 could sure have an impact on the end of half and end of game. 
    
    Has anyone else heard anything about these changes? 
    
    
    /Jeff

       It just applies to 'some' out of bounds plays, the paper wasn't
    specific. It also excludes the last 2 minutes of the 1st half and the
    last 5 of the 2nd half.	
                                 DENNY

    I can tell you about the impact of the changes:
    
    1.  3 fewer minutes to complete the half-time summary
    2.  3 fewer minutes to hit the men's room and get a snack at half
    time before the second half begins.  And believe me, when you're
    rooted to one spot standing (like I am) for 3 hours with the only
    chance to take a break being halftime, 3 minutes is very significant.
    
    John

    Right, 3 minute reduction in half time, the refs will signal the clock
    to start on some out of bounds plays when they decide that both teams
    look ready (with the exceptions Denny noted), there are also some
    changes about starting the clock after change of possession.  While
    they are going to enact these time saving changes, they will also be
    adding a few more minutes of commercial time.

       Sounds good to me slasher, 'specially when it's about 10 degrees out
    there.
                                       Denny

Personally, I think they should can that *&^*&%(%ing instant replay
rule.

Get the refs to be as good as the umps in baseball (who over many more
plays average approx 95% correct calls), get rid of the replay and
the pansy refs who are afraid to overrule.

Cut the TV timeouts.  I get sick of seeing 55 Subaru commercials in
a row during one quarter, and 55 Mich Dry commercials in the next.

JMHO,
'Saw

    
    Put another asterisk in the record books.  The new rule, yet another
    structural change, will result in fewer plays per game while commercial
    time-outs remain the same.  Changing the quarters to 13-14 minutes
    each would have the same overall effect.
    
    While I'm not big into TV cynicism (because I do enjoy watching sports
    on TV), the NFL's gall is incredible.  They've actually taken to
    changing the rules to correct a problem caused by instant replay and
    increased TV timeouts.  Am I allowed to bash Don Shula for this one? 
    
    glenn
    

    I heard on KOA that while they're cutting time here and there, they're
    adding more commercials so they can make more money.
    
    Live from Charger Central...
    
    Glenn

    
    Rules reportedly being discussed:
    
    dump the in the grasp rule but defenders can't touch the QB after he
    throws the ball (closing one Pandora's box and opening another, how is
    	a player going to immediately stop when the QB releases the ball?)
    
    one foot inbounds for a legal catch (stupid! these are pros, keep it as
    	is)
    
    intentional grounding will be legal (stupid! if it is at any time.
    	there will no longer be any sacks, as soon as a QB is about to
    	go down he will throw the ball into the ground to not lose yards)
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    Heard today that Dan Marino wants to be traded to one of 4 teams...one
    being Chicago.  He says he can't get along with Shula.
    
    pete

    Gee... From watching the NFL you would never know that intentional
    grounding wasn't legal.   :*}
    
    Dennis
    

    I wonder if Uncle Al will snatch-up Marino?  I could see this
    happening.......
    
    Hawk

    re Marino
    
    The 3 other teams that he would accept a trade to are Indianapolis,
    Pittsburgh and the Raiders (wherever they may be).
    
    other news
    
    Eric Dickerson has been given permission to pursue a trade deal with
    the Giants or Redskins.
    
    pete

    
    re: Marino..
    
    Can't get along with Shula, but he want's to play for DITKA!  
    
    Boy that makes a lot of sense.  Has this guy taken one to many hits to
    the head or what?  
    
    /Jeff

    It's not so much that he doesn't get along with Shula, it's Don's son
    that Marino is at odds with.  And like any dad, he'll back his son
    first......

    Don's son is now the Offensive Coordinator in Dallas, so I don't think
    that he is Marino's problem. 
    
    Another team in the rumor mill is Philadelphia, and they are talking of
    a Marino for Cunningham trade. I can't see either team doing it.
    Randall woudn't fit very well in the structured Miami offense, and the
    Eagles offense is shaped around the mobile QB, something Marino's never
    been accused of.
    
    Dennis
    

	You want to talk TV cynicism, how 'bout the extra wildcard game added?
ABC has to dish out more money for Monday Night Football even though the ratings
have dropped over the years.  ABC says to Mr. Tagliabue "Hey Tags we want 
sumpin' to sweeten da pot."  so the Commish says  "How 'bout a playoff game?"
ABC says  "That'll do 'er Tags.  Deal."   So we get another wildcard game.
Maybe it's just coincidence ABC is gonna do the game?  Naaah...

				/Don

    I heard Denver is another city Marino would play in.
    
    Cowboy
    

It's a proven fact that ABC MNF's ratings have dropped because USA
network is carrying "WWF Prime Time".  If ABC wants to up their
ratings, they should get Jesse The Body Ventura to do color for the
game....

You heard it here first,
Chainsaw

       According to a Texas paper (Houston Post) Andre Ware has decided to
    enter the draft.
                                              Denny

    Hey Hoot- can you see Marino throwing to Swervin' Mervyn and
    Willie Gault?? We be jammin'!!!!
    			Raider_Rich
    

�So we get another wildcard game.
�Maybe it's just coincidence ABC is gonna do the game?  Naaah...
    
    Nobody ever said otherwise.  In fact the article I read on the deal
    stated that the extra playoff game was requested by ABC to justify the
    contract.

     <<< Note 5.375 by SNDCSL::HAUSRATH "Who,Stones in '89. Zep in '90" >>>
                 -< Would make Chicago very tough next year. >-

    
    >>re: Marino..
    
    >>Can't get along with Shula, but he want's to play for DITKA!  
    
    >>Boy that makes a lot of sense.  Has this guy taken one to many hits to
    >>the head or what?  
    
    >>/Jeff

    
    Nah, it's the result of too much nose candy during his college days
    starting to catch up with him.
    
    JaKe
    
    

    	Gee BigMac, it's good to see the league being honest about
    prostituting the extra playoff game for more money.  8^)
    
    				/Don

    Another proposition on the floor is to change the policy regarding
    steriod testing.  Instead of the one time, pre-season testing done last
    year, steriod testing will be performed on a random basis as much as 4
    times/year.  It is thought that this way it would be harder to mask the
    use of steriods from the tests.

    
    RAIDER_Rich,
    You forgot about Tim Brown, Alexander and Dyal. Yeah, we can dream but
    I think that is about as far to reality as it will come.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    Eric Dickerson announced yesterday that he had lost his enthusiasm for
    the game, and was retiring.  He said his body couldn't take the
    punishment any more.
    
    Now the question is, will this work out as his ploy to get traded?
    
    =Bob=

    Dickerson has said he will retire if Indy doesn't trade him.  He
    equated playing for the Colts with playing Russian Roulette - sooner or
    later he is going to die.  It was reported in today's Austin
    American-Statesman that the Oilers have been added to the list of teams
    he would like to be traded to.  I can't see this happening as Houston
    needs defensive help and doesn't know what to do with all of the
    running backs they have now.
    
    Irsay has said there is no way they will trade Eric.

    
    Irsay played that game before with John Elway and lost.  I think he's
    wiser (although maybe not smarter) now.
    
    glenn
    

    
    	Somewhere John Robinson is smiling....
    
    	I remember last year that Dickerson said something to the
    	effect of "John wanted to mess with me, so he sent me to
    	Indianapolis.  Well, Indianapolis is a great place.  I like
    	it here."
    
    	I guess not... 

       Irsay says if Dickerson quits he'll owe the Colts $1 million.
    Supposedly it's in his contract.
                                     Denny

    Hey, he caint retire, I own him in FFL_C, and as his owner, I refuse
    to let him retire.  If he does, Eric will hear from my attorneys.
    
    Hrumph.
    
    JD - Owner/Manager/Chief-Hokey-Fa-Nokey Pernicious Gits Football
    Club...

    Jim Kelly signed a 7-year $20M contract to be the highest paid NFL
    player.  Where does Buffalo come up with their big $$$?  If this
    sets a new standard for NFL players what would a real winner (Montana)
    sign for next time?
    
    Cowboy
    

================================================================================
Note 5.395                     Official NFL topic                     395 of 395
FTMUDG::REED "Give smix smegma a chance...."          7 lines  23-MAR-1990 08:49
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

�    Where does Buffalo come up with their big $$$? 

	CBS, NBC, ABC, TNT, ESPN.  All of this without real free agency
either.  No wonder the owners are skeert of unlimited free agency.  I
guess they just cain't help themselves.

   				/Don

       Each team will get $30+ MILLION per year from TV.
                                    Denny

    Now Jim Kelly is not just the most overrated QB in football, he's the
    Most overrated overpaid QB in football.
    
    JoJ

    Look for Thurman Thomas to ask for the big bucks next.  Isn't his
    contract a yearly setup because of his suspect knee?  He has reason
    for getting mega-bucks since his rushing/recieving yards were so
    impressive last year.
    
    Cowboy
    

    
    Montana doesn't have to worry.  He jkust signed a deal with Sega
    for a football video game sponsorship for something like $5mil.
    He makes 3-4 times his salary in promotions now.
    
    Bruce
    

    The Bills probably looked at the number of fans Kelly has been putting
    in the seats and decided to give him a cut.  Attendance in Buffalo has
    picked up substantially since Kelly was signed.

    It was recently announced that TNT would be carrying the NFL games
    instead of TBS.  Although TNT is available to fewer households, TNT
    uses local advertising thus is expected to be a better revenue
    generator than TBS.

    And, this forces a lot of cable companies to install TNT.
    
    I'd rather see a lot of cable companies dump TBS.
    
    ...mike

    I may be wrong, there's always a first :^), but I don't recall
    ever having watched an NFL game that TBS (the Ted Turner station
    right?) aired.
    
    Claybone

    
    but Mac, those same people who fill the stadium in newspaper poll
    last year vote by majority to give the job to Reich after his three
    game win streak.....
    
    mike

    
    Clay,
    TBS just bought 8 Sunday night games for this coming season. Turner 
    then decided to show them on TNT instead of TBS.

>>    but Mac, those same people who fill the stadium in newspaper poll
>>    last year vote by majority to give the job to Reich after his three
>>    game win streak.....
    
    
    Yeah, but Mike, it's just like Giants fans that wanted Scott Brunner.
    Except Reich is good.
    
    JoJ

    
    Mac, stay in Texas will ya!!
    
    ;^)
    
    mike

Path: shlump.nac.dec.com!decwrl!uunet!lll-winken!looking!clarinews
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: clari.sports.football
Subject: Mandarich says body built by desire, not steroids
Keywords: college football, football, men's college, men's professional
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 30 Mar 90 16:23:34 GMT
Lines: 38
Approved: [email protected]
ACategory: sports
Slugword: mandarich
Priority: daily
Format: daily
ANPA: Wc: 409; Id: s1120; Sel: ns--s; Adate: 3-30-1045aes
Codes: ysfcdxx., ysfpdxx., xxxxxxxx
 
 
	LANSING, Mich. (UPI) -- Former Michigan State tackle Tony Mandarich
has told a Lansing newspaper he built his massive body with ``desire''
and not illegal steriods as reported in the Detroit News.
	In Detroit, The News said Friday it stands by the original story
and disputed remarks by Mandarich in his interview with the Lansing
State Journal.
	In the March 21 story former players told the News steroid activity
was common during Mandarich's collegiate career, which peaked with the
1987 Rose Bowl season.
	``The article didn't surprise
Thursday. ``This will go on my whole career. It's like a plague that's
labeled me. I have no proof except for medical records. People think
there is no explanation for being 6-6, 300 pounds, strong and fast -- no
excuse for it unless you're supposedly taking drugs.
	``My answer to that is, what gets you there is desire, how badly
you want something.''
	Mandarich, now a player with the Green Bay Packers of the National
Football League, said he passed a steroid test several times while he
was at MSU.
	Mandarich also told the State Journal he did not learn of The News
story until a day after it was published. But the News said Mandarich
was given detailed accounts of the story several days earlier by his
agent, Vern Sharbaugh of Cleveland, and by the manager of an East
Lansing bodybuilding gym used by Mandarich.
	``We gave Tony Mandarich numerous opportunities to talk to us
before the story was published,'' Bob Giles, publisher and executive
editor of the News, said Thursday. ``We find it unusual that he waited
this long to say anything. We would invite him to sit down with our
reporters and go over the story line by line.''
	Jeff Case, a former Spartans player who said he had obtained
seriods from Mandarich and had been injected with them by Mandarich and
at least one of his roommates, called the News' story ``totally
accurate.''
	``There's no change in my mind whatsoever,'' Case said. 
	The News said its story was written after more than 100 interviews,
on and off the record, with players, coaches, parents, physicians and
police.

Path: shlump.nac.dec.com!decwrl!uunet!looking!clarinews
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: clari.sports.football,clari.sports.top
Subject: Falcons might deal for Ware
Keywords: football, men's professional
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 30 Mar 90 18:39:41 GMT
Lines: 46
Approved: [email protected]
Xref: shlump.nac.dec.com clari.sports.football:3
ACategory: sports
Slugword: fbn-ware
Priority: major
Format: regular
ANPA: Wc: 472; Id: s1588; Sel: ns--s; Adate: 3-30-125pes; Ver: sked
Codes: ysfprxx.
 
 
	HOUSTON (UPI) -- Atlanta would consider trading the No. 1 pick in
the upcoming NFL draft to take Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback Andre
Ware, Falcons Coach Jerry Glanville said.
	Glanville said he will work out the former University of Houston
player in Houston next week. Ware is among 28 non-seniors coming out
early for the April 22-23 NFL draft.
	Glanville said he believes Ware is a certain early pick in the
first round.
	``I think somebody will want to move up to take (Illinois
quarterback) Jeff George, and we could still end up getting Ware,''
Glanville said in an interview published Friday in The Houston Post.
	The Falcons apparently have cooled on Alabama linebacker Keith
McCants, who had been considered the most likely No. 1 pick in the
draft.
	George, another junior coming out early, is high on the list of the
New York Jets and New England, which will pick second and third,
respectively.
	Glanville, who will install a red gun offense at Atlanta, is
interested in Ware because of his run-and-shoot background at Houston.
The two offenses are similar except for one aspect -- the quarterback in
the red gun operates from the shotgun.
	The Falcons, 3-13 last season, are in need of help on both sides of
the ball, although Chris Miller, a first-round pick in 1987, is
considered to be one of the NFL's rising young quarterbacks.
	Atlanta has three of the first 27 picks, with the first, 20th --
acquired from Washington in a 1989 trade -- and 27th, the Falcons' own
second-round selection.
	``Ware will be gone by our second pick in the first round,''
Glanville said.
	There are only 25 first-round selections this year because Dallas,
Denver and Phoenix made 1989 supplemental draft picks that cost them No.
1 selections.
	``I think this will be the greatest draft ever,'' said Oilers Coach
Jack Pardee, who coached Ware at UH and succeeded Glanville at the
Oilers' helm after last season. He has expressed interest in acquiring
Ware.
	``I'd be very surprised if Andre is still there when we get around
to pick,'' he said.
	The Oilers, with the 15th choice overall, need help most on
defense, but would be hard-pressed to pass up Ware as the ``best
available athlete,'' Pardee said.
	Ware threw for 4,699 yards and 46 touchdowns last season.
	Cody Carlson, the Oilers' backup behind quarterback Warren Moon,
does not have a contract for 1980 and has asked to be traded. The Oilers
did not make him eligible for Plan B free agency.

Path: shlump.nac.dec.com!decwrl!looking!clarinews
From: [email protected] (United Press International)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.football
Subject: NFL Plan B Free Agent Signings
Keywords: football, men's professional
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 31 Mar 90 17:43:09 GMT
Lines: 100
Approved: [email protected]
ACategory: sports
Slugword: fbn-sign-list
Priority: regular
Format: table
ANPA: Wc: 533; Id: s0788; Sel: ns--s; Adate: 3-31-1235pes; Ver: 2takes
Codes: &sfpaxx.
 
 
	NEW YORK (UPI) -- Team-by-team list of Plan B free agent signings
(player, position, former team):
                               _N_F_C
                             _A_t_l_a_n_t_a
	Jackie Cline, DE, Miami; Tracy Johnson, RB, Houston; Ronnie Lee, T,
Miami; Ben Utt, G, Indianapolis
                             _C_h_i_c_a_g_o
	Kurt Becker, G, LA Rams
                              _D_a_l_l_a_s
	Tommie Agee, RB, Kansas City; Louis Cheek, G, Miami; Terrence
Cooks, LB, New England; Antonio Gibson, DB, New Orleans; Rod Harris, WR,
New Orleans; Greg Johnson, G, Miami; Walter Johnson, LB, New Orleans;
Keith Jones, RB, Cleveland; Dennis McKinnon, WR, Chicago; Jay Novacek,
TE, Phoenix; Lybrant Robinson, LB, Washington; Tony Slaton, G, LA Rams;
Vinson Smith, LB, Pittsburgh; Anthony Spears, DT, Houston; James
Washington, DB, LA Rams; Mike Williams, WR, Detroit; Curtis Wilson, C,
New England
                             _D_e_t_r_o_i_t
	Mark Duckens, DE, NY Giants; William Judson, CB, Miami; Aubrey
Matthews, WR, Green Bay; Herb Welch, DB, Washington; Eric Wilkerson, RB,
Pittsburgh
                            _G_r_e_e_n_ _B_a_y
	Aaron Chubb, LB, New England; James Cribbs, DE, Detroit; Donnie
Dee, TE, Seattle; Paul Frazier, RB, New Orleans; Dale Hatcher, P, LA
Rams; William Harris, TE, Tampa Bay; Jerry Holmes, CB, Detroit; Flip
Johnson, WR, Buffalo; Shawn Miller, DT, LA Rams; George Yarno, C,
Houston.
                             _L_A_ _R_a_m_s
	Hank Ilesic, P, San Diego; Moe Milinichik, G, Detroit; Curt Warner,
RB, Seattle
                            _M_i_n_n_e_s_o_t_a
	Cornell Burbage, WR, Dallas; Ira Hillary, WR, Cincinnati; Shawn
Knight, DE, Phoenix; Robert Lyons, DB, Cleveland; Doug Marrone, G, New
Orleans; Harry Newsome, P, Pittsbrugh; Andy Schillinger, WR, Phoenix;
Adam Schreiber, C, NY Jets; Ken Stills, DB, Green Bay; Craig Wolfley, G,
Pittsburgh
                            _N_Y_ _G_i_a_n_t_s
	Howard Feggins, DB, New England; Bob Mrosko, TE, Houston
                           _P_h_i_l_a_d_e_l_p_h_i_a
	Harper Le Bel, TE, Seattle
                             _P_h_o_e_n_i_x
	Tracey Eaton, S, Houston; Bill Lewis, C, LA Raiders; Lorenzo Lynch,
CB, Chicago; Jeff Walker, DT, New Orleans.
                          _S_a_n_ _F_r_a_n_c_i_s_c_o
	Greg Cox, S, NY Giants; Hanford Dixon, CB, Cleveland; Wayne
Radloff, C, Atlanta; John Shannon, DT, Chicago; Fred Smerlas, NT,
Buffalo; Dave Waymer, DB, New Orleans
                            _T_a_m_p_a_ _B_a_y
	Adam Bob, LB, NY Jets; Evan Cooper, DB, Atlanta; Eric Everett, DB,
Philadelphia; Rodney Rice, DB, New England
                            _W_a_s_h_i_n_g_t_o_n
	Mark Adickes, G, Kansas City; John Brandes, TE, Indianapolis; Tom
Brown, RB, Miami; Brad Edwards, DB, Minnesota; James Geathers, DE, New
Orleans; Ron Middleton, TE, Cleveland; Walter Stanley, WR-KR, Detroit;
James Wilder, RB, Tampa Bay
	Don Smith, RB, Tampa Bay; Rick Tuten, P, Philadelphia
                            _C_l_e_v_e_l_a_n_d
	Mike Baab, C, New England; Raymond Clayborn, CB, New England; Larry
McGrew, LB, New England; Ken Rose, LB, NY Jets; Ralph Tamm, G,
Washington; Rhondy Weston, DE, Tampa Bay
                            _C_i_n_c_i_n_n_a_t_i
	Mike Barber, WR, Phoenix; Paul Palmer, RB, Dallas
                              _D_e_n_v_e_r
	Ty Allert, LB, Philadelphia; Lorenzo Hampton, RB, Miami; David
Little, TE, Philadelphia; Mark Mraz, DE, LA Raiders; Elliot Smith, DB,
San Diego; Chris Verhulst, TE, Houston
                             _H_o_u_s_t_o_n
	David Arnold, DB, Pittsburgh; Bernard Ford, WR, Dallas; Carl Harry,
WR, Washington; Terry Kinard, S, NY Giants; Leander Knight, DB, NY Jets;
Gerald McNeil, WR-KR, Cleveland
                           _K_a_n_s_a_s_ _C_i_t_y
	Jeff Donaldson, S, Houston; Peter Shorts, DE, New England; David
Ward, LB, New England; Frank Winters, C, NY Giants
                            _L_A_ _R_a_i_d_e_r_s
	Ron Brown, WR-KR, LA Rams; Ron Burton, LB, Phoenix; Joe Campbell,
LB, San Diego; Max Montoya, G, Cincinnati; George Streeter, DB, Chicago
                              _M_i_a_m_i
	Donnie Elder, CB-KR, Tampa Bay; Kerry Glenn, DB, NY Jets; Cliff
Odom, LB, Indianapolis; Tony Paige, FB, Detroit; Mike Reichenbach, LB,
Philadelphia; Karl Wilson, DE, Phoenix
                           _N_e_w_ _E_n_g_l_a_n_d
	George Adams, RB, NY Giants; Ernest Gibson, CB, Miami; Richard
Harvey, LB, Buffalo; Ilia Jarostchuk, LB, Phoenix; Damian Johnson, G, NY
Giants; Zeke Mowatt, TE, NY Giants; Bob White, C, Dallas.
                             _N_Y_ _J_e_t_s
	Glenn Antrum, WR, New England; Mark Boyer, TE, Indianapolis; Travis
Curtis, S, Minnesota; Pat Kelly, TE, Denver; Joe Kolhbrand, LB, New
Orleans; Trevor Matich, C, Detroit; Emanuel McNeil, NT, New England;
Brett Miller, T, San Diego; Tom Rehder, T, New England; Dave Zawatson,
T, Chicago
                            _P_i_t_t_s_b_u_r_g_h
	Billy Griggs, TE, NY Jets
                            _S_a_n_ _D_i_e_g_o
	Ronnie Harmon, RB, Buffalo; John Kidd, P, Buffalo; Joe Mickles, RB,
Washington; Bruce Plummer, S, Indianapolis; Mark Rodenhauser, C,
Minnesota; Thomas Sanders, RB, Chicago; Tom Toth, G, Miami
                             _S_e_a_t_t_l_e
	Dave Ahrens, LB, Miami; Rick Donnelly, P, Atlanta; Ron Heller, TE,
Atlanta

       Pats picked up Jamie Morris of Ayer, Mass. He was a Plan B from the
    'Skins. I watched him and Joe play in H.S. Jamie was better. Hope he
    gets to play more than on kick returns..
                                         denny

    RE: .410
    
    Somebody explain somethin'.  If Atlanta has cooled on McCants, and Ware
    is the man they want, why don't they just use their first pick to take
    him?
    
    Just don't seem logical to listen to all the other teams saying, "Well,
    he'll probably go mid-round."  If he's the guy you want, screw opinion
    and select him.  Why would you trade down and take a chance at missing
    him?
    
    	--dan'l

    One reason is that teams rate players by best athlete overall and
    best player by position.  There's a school of thought that says
    you take the best overall player regardless of position, and if
    you have to reach down to get a player (such as the Falcons with
    Andre Ware), you aren't really getting full value for the pick.
    If Andre Ware isn't really the best football player in the draft
    and isn't going to go until later in the round, it makes more sense
    for the Falcons to trade their top pick to another team, try to
    get the pick that will allow them to get Ware for his true value
    and pick up some other picks besides.  Opinion has nothing to do
    with it.
    
    John

    Yeah, I know all that.  But look at all the "best available athletes"
    that were washouts and all the great players that came as late-round
    picks.  That best available athlete stuff just doesn't pan out.
    
    Analogy:  Say I run a construction company and I have $30,000 to buy a
    vehicle.  I can use that money to buy a Cadillac or a Ford dump truck. 
    The Cadillac is the "best available vehicle" for that money, but the
    dump truck is what I need make my business successful.  If I know it's
    what I need and I'm convinced it's gonna make me successful, I gotta
    select it regardless of other available merchandise.
    
    Is that a fair analogy or am I mixing apples and oranges.  What do I
    know about business; I was an English major.
    
    	--dan'l

Vince Lombardi was one of the big proponents of "get the best
athlete" in the draft.  I think he fared well with the philosophy.

Atlanta appears to need help all over, and at this point, I think
they should just grab whatever they can get with that first round
pick.  They'll be able to pick up a QB later on perhaps....

I may not know what I'm talking about either ;^)

Chainsaw

    re: .415
    
    I don't agree with the best available athlete either but I do agree
    with getting full value for the pick.  If Andre Ware is in their
    judgment going to be available for a late #1 or later pick then
    they are foolish to spend the number 1 pick in the entire draft
    on him.  They should trade down and get some value for that pick
    in addition to drafting Ware later.
        
    John

RE: �               <<< Note 5.411 by JUPITR::MOK "Charles P. Mok" >>>
    �                       -< UPI: Plan B signings >-
How come I get all these backwards question marks before each letter of the
teams' names??? Is that for like a diffent font or something? I have a VT330,
is it something that shows up only when printed.... or what?

Mike JN

                                  _N_F_C
                            _A_t_l_a_n_t_a
                            _C_h_i_c_a_g_o
                              _D_a_l_l_a_s
                            _D_e_t_r_o_i_t
                         _G_r_e_e_n_ _B_a_y
                            _L_A_ _R_a_m_s
                         _M_i_n_n_e_s_o_t_a
                         _N_Y_ _G_i_a_n_t_s
                     _P_h_i_l_a_d_e_l_p_h_i_a
                            _P_h_o_e_n_i_x
                   _S_a_n_ _F_r_a_n_c_i_s_c_o
                         _T_a_m_p_a_ _B_a_y
                        _W_a_s_h_i_n_g_t_o_n
                         _C_l_e_v_e_l_a_n_d
                        _C_i_n_c_i_n_n_a_t_i
                              _D_e_n_v_e_r
                            _H_o_u_s_t_o_n
                      _K_a_n_s_a_s_ _C_i_t_y
                        _L_A_ _R_a_i_d_e_r_s
                               _M_i_a_m_i
                      _N_e_w_ _E_n_g_l_a_n_d
                            _N_Y_ _J_e_t_s
                        _P_i_t_t_s_b_u_r_g_h
                         _S_a_n_ _D_i_e_g_o
                            _S_e_a_t_t_l_e

    
    Did anybody listen to WFAN about 8 AM Sunday morning? They announced
    that the Jets had called an 8:30 pess conference to announce that they
    had traded Ken O'Brien & 2 first round draft choices to Miami for Dan
    Marino. They had folks calling in and sounding like they were going to
    jump out of windows. They finally announced that it was an April Fool's
    gag (as if that wasn't apparent), and then went on discussing other
    gags that were proposed but not implemented. Leading that list was the
    Knicks firing Stu Jackson. That one was discarded because it was too
    beleivable, will probably happen soon, and would not upset anyone.
    
    Dennis
    

�           <<< Note 5.416 by CAM::WAY "Outfielder in the Bourbon" >>>
�    I may not know what I'm talking about either ;^)

	GO for it Frank! (You never fail to crack me up)

	I side with John to a certain extent regarding the best available
athlete. Sometimes your needs dictate what you choose, and if the organization
has competent people, you will find them trading up and down in order to
positon themselves to take the best available athlete AT THE POSITION THEY
NEED. I think the `best available athlete' chestnut does have some validity,
though, depending on your needs. If you need a quarterback, you'd better get a
quarterback, and if you need a breakaway running back, you'd better get one of
those. But if you need a standout free safety, and the best available athlete
is a corner, or an outside LB, or a DE, then I'd say take the best available
athlete.

Mike JN

       According to yesterdays Globe Toni Eason will probably be the Jest
    starter!
                                          Denny

    The order you are chosen in the draft also has a lot to do with how
    much you will be paid.

    RE: Atlanta and Andre Ware,
    
    I'm not sure why the Falcons are interested in Ware at all.  Not that
    he isn't a quality player, but so is Chris Miller.  Miller was a first
    round pick in what, '87?  I think they should trade down in the first
    round, but not to get Ware...to get extra picks, a veteran and help
    where they need it (DB, DL, OL.....even another RB)!!
    
    What are the chances that Glanville is using this 'interest' in Ware as
    a smokescreen?
    
    
    Nelly

    
    My guess is that maybe they feel Miller is fragile Nelly....
    
    I can't recall him be healthy for a full season yet...
    
    mike
    
    

Does anyone have any background information on a recent NFL player
named Quentin Walker?   Evidently, he played for the Cardinals for
2 years and then Tampa Bay for 1 before tearing an achilles tendon.

Graduated from Virginia, probably 5 years or so ago.

I went to college with Quentin Walker.  He was a tuba player, and
he now manages Edwards Food Warehouse in Enfield, CT.

Somehow I don't think this is the Quentin Walker that you're interested
in....

Chainsaw

    Satellite dish gurus:
    
    I hope to have a satellite system going before the nexted kickoff.
    Howsabout some input on where some of the NFL (and college) teams
    can be found.  Some of the info that would be helpful is:
    
    Is Ku band necessary?
    Which teams require a descrambler?
    Where are certain teams found? (Buffalo and Detroit in particular)
    
    
    Living too far from civilization for cable/network TV
    
    Cowboy

    Ku is neceassary for NBC (AFC) games, since they have been exclusively
    on Ku for about four years now.
    
    I don't know what bands are scrambled.
    
    ...mike
     

    I just moved into a house with a satellite dish so hopefully I can
    help ...
    
   � Is Ku band necessary?
    
    Not really but the "state-of-the-art" dish freaks will tell you it
    is.  Ku is a much "shorter" frequency than C and it works best
    with a solid dish.  Sometimes the mesh on the screen dishes is too
    wide to capture the signal and the beam passes right through the
    dish instead.   I've got a screen dish but its mesh is supposed to
    be fine enough (less than �") to collect Ku.  Ku is supposed to be
    a sharper picture and better sound than C but I can't compare them
    for you because I don't have Ku equipment yet.
    
    Of the three major networks, only NBC has gone heavily into Ku. 
    Both ABC and CBS are still mostly on the C band.
    
    It seems that ABC doesn't really care that much about the
    scrambling issue.   They use quite a few birds to flash all sorts
    of wild stuff around for free.   I missed "The Wonder Years" the
    other night at 8:30pm EDT but caught it three hours later on the
    ABC Pacific Coast feed.   
    
    CBS has very little, if anything, that isn't scrambled on C.   And
    NBC has only one feed on C band and it's scrambled.
    
    You can buy all three networks together in a package called
    "PrimeTime24".  This is ABC out of New York, CBS out of Chicago,
    and NBC out of Atlanta.  Cost for me is about $4.00 per month. 
    Like I said, this is the only way to get CBS and NBC on C band. 
    ABC is part of this package but they also blast a lot of stuff in
    the clear, too.
    
    You will need, of course, a VideoCipher II unit to descramble the
    signals.  They can be a little on the pricey side.  $500.00 is
    about average.
    
    ESPN, WTBS (Turner), and TNT are all scrambled and are also
    available in another package similar to cable TV's "basic" package
    for about $5.00 per month.   I mentioned Turner and TNT because
    I'm not sure who's doing what with the NFL in the new television
    contract.  ESPN, of course, will still have their Sunday Night
    portfolio.
    
    And that's all ...   You won't find the NFL on anything but one of
    the three networks, ESPN, and next season on one of Turner's
    stations.    
    
   � Which teams require a descrambler?
    
    It's irrelevant.   No team has its "own" broadcast facilities.  
    They all participate in the league's contract.   You might be able
    to get lucky with a preseason game or two but once the season
    starts, the broadcast medium is not an open issue.   NBC shows the
    game when a visiting team is from the AFC, CBS shows it when the
    visitors are NFC, ABC has Monday Night, and ESPN has Sunday Night
    during the last half of the season.   Again, I don't know what
    chunk Turner's got for next year.  Perhaps he has Sunday Night for
    the first 8 or 9 weeks, I don't know.
    
   � Where are certain teams found? (Buffalo and Detroit in particular)
    
    Buffalo is in New York and Detroit is in Michigan.  Sorry, I
    couldn't resist.  Like I said, this is largely irrelevant.  You'll
    see Buffalo when they're on "national" tube like a Monday Night
    game or part of a "local/national" doubleheader package or in the
    playoffs.
    
    I'm hoping that there may be some "wild feeds" as they're called. 
    Finding a "wild feed" means just scanning all the birds looking
    for unannounced "clear" broadcasts.   I've already found lots of
    neat things up there.   I saw the Lakers-Hornets game last month
    on "Pacific Coast Sports" on a transponder that was supposed to be
    blank.  And NASA has some neat stuff, too.  It's fun.  
    
    SportsChannel is still unscrambled for the most part.  They are
    neck deep in their hockey coverage right now.  Of course, with the
    Flyers out of the playoffs for the first time in 18 years, I could
    care less.
    
    Hope this helps ...
    
    Bob Hunt
                                                

    Re.427
    
    Buffalo can be found in Rich Stadium and Detroit can be found in the
    Silverdome, both 8 weeks out of each season.
    
    
    JaKe
    
    :-) :-) :-)
    

    Thanks for the good info!  Denver cable is lucky enough to get PSN
    an unscrambled sports channel that had lots of good games (mostly
    college) last year, BTW.
    
    Cowboy

    and thanks for locating Buffalo and Detroit!! 8^D
    

   � Denver cable is lucky enough to get PSN an unscrambled sports
   � channel that had lots of good games (mostly college) last year,
   � BTW.
    
    This brings up something else I forgot.   I chose *not* to
    subscribe to the "Denver 5" or whatever it's called but another
    dish programming package that's available is a set of five
    stations out of Denver.   I think the network feeds out of Denver
    are in that package as well as some of the Denver independent
    stations.    If I remember, I'll check my guide and publish some
    better information on it some other time.
    
    And I think that "PSN" you refer to is "Pacific Sports Network"
    which may have been what I saw a few weeks ago watching the
    Hornets play the Lakers in Charlotte.
    
    I should also mention that I have a regular VHF antenna as well as
    the dish so I can pick up the local Charlotte network affiliates. 
    Gotta get the local poop, don'tcha know ???    Picked up a simple
    passive line switching box at a local Radio Shack so that I can
    toggle between dish, antenna, and VCR.
    
    Hey, just an all around technoweenie kindaguy ...
    
    Bob Hunt

    We get the Denver VHF channels via attenna fairly well most of the
    time so wouldn't have to pay for those.  (Hey, FREE "BRONCO BEAT")
    
    re:PSN  
    
    This channel looked to have continuous college football games--much
    more than ESPN.  Then during other seasons the programming continued
    to look great.  Its hard to believe that its not scrambled.  I could
    survive on PSN and peanut butter sandwiches for years.
    
    Cowboy
    

    If you want to watch an AFC team (I'm exclusivley a Charger fan) then
    you MUST HAVE a KU system, since NBC broadcasts the AFC and NBC uses
    KU.  Specifically satellites K1 & K2.
    
    Live from Charger Central....
    
    Glenn

    
    
      If I'm not mistaken, the 'Denver 5' feeds out The John Elway Show,
    The Dan Reeves Show, The Doug Moe Show, The Denver Huddle, and 
    highlights of the East Stands at Mile High being moved out for
    baseball. Round the clock.  
    
    
       Iy my opinion, the only good dish is one filled with eggs.
       Unscrambled, of course.
    
    
    Steven
    
    

   � If you want to watch an AFC team (I'm exclusivley a Charger fan) then
   � you MUST HAVE a KU system, since NBC broadcasts the AFC and NBC uses
   � KU.  Specifically satellites K1 & K2.
    
    But, Glenn, as I stated earlier, NBC still has at least one
    station on the Clark band.  WXIA is an NBC affiliate out of
    Atlanta that is part of the PrimeTime24 package that also includes
    WABC, the ABC affiliate from New York, and WBBM, the CBS station
    from Chicago.
    
    NBC did make an almost total cutover to Ku a few years ago but
    WXIA is still around on C.
    
    Hey, I'm still new to all this dish stuff so I could be dead
    wrong but my eyes are sure seeing "peacock" out of Atlanta and I
    don't have a Ku box.
    
    Bob Hunt

   �   If I'm not mistaken, the 'Denver 5' feeds out The John Elway Show,
   � The Dan Reeves Show, The Doug Moe Show, The Denver Huddle, and 
   � highlights of the East Stands at Mile High being moved out for
   � baseball. Round the clock.  
    
    Good thing I saved my money.
    
   �    Iy my opinion, the only good dish is one filled with eggs.
   �    Unscrambled, of course.
    
    Kathleen Turner is a pretty good "dish", don'tcha think so ???
    
    Bob Hunt
    

    
    To watch AFC football, you need KU band, simple as that. Although one
    NBC affiliate is C band, the backhauls for the most part are all KU
    band. Likewise, the backhauls for the NFC gmes on CBS are all on KU
    band and are in the clear. Last couple of years, the ESPN feeds for pro
    football have been screambledd using BMAC technology, which is
    incompatible with the VCII. I haven't missed an Eagles game the four
    years I've had my dish. 
    
    Baseball, however, is another story. The baseball backhauls are pretty
    much all scrambled in a manner that makes it unavailable to the home
    dish owner.
    
    For more information, try PEARL::SATELLITE, which has all kinds of
    Satellite TV stuff.
    
    Dennis
    

    Re: -1 Just a nit but CBS games are C band. Although CBS does scramble
    it's regularing programing it DOES NOT scramble it's FOOTBALL FEEDS.
    So if your team is from the NFC your chances of watching 95% of the
    games is excellent. I watched 15 Packer games via CBS telecast and
    the other game I caught locally. (KC vs GB) I also watched all
    four pre-season games vis a station out of Green Bay. I live in
    Vermont. AFC is another story which has be stated in a previous note.
    
    The Pack

    Thanks for the response to my satellite question.  It looks like
    the best bet is to look for a C/Ku combination system and have
    the ability to see anything (atleast if its unscrambled).
    
    Servicemen are constantly moving out of Colorado Springs and are
    unloading their systems at give-away prices--usually $500.  I don't
    know how old/outdated some of this equipment is tho.
    
    Thanks again for the input, Cowboy

    Well Bob, you're right about a couple NBC affiliates out there, but I
    interpreted the question to mean that if you want to follow "your" AFC 
    team every week, then how do you do it.  And for that you need Ku band.  
    
    I watch the Chargers on either K1 or K2 every Sunday regardless of
    where they play or whom their opponent is.  They might be on the 2 NBC
    affiliates occasionally, but not week in and week out.
    
    Just a different slant:-)
    
    Glenn

Indianapolis Colts QB Jack Trudeau, who went to that Big 10 School 
Illinois, was arrested Tuesday on a charge of driving while intoxicated 
at Noblesville, Ind. Trudeau was stopped by police for speeding and 
erratic driving. He had a blood-alcohol level of .19%.

At this point let me make the following perfectly clear:

o It is not known if he was a victim of sexual harassment.
o The genders of the arresting [sic] policepeople [sic] was not announced.
o What is it with people in Indiana who tolerate such behavior.
o There is a_ill wind blowing for Illinois.
o This is definitely related to sports.
o I love all my neighbors.

TTom

    With all due respect TTom I think this info belongs over in the Big 10
    note.  After all, if ex-ACC/Big10 coaches are to be held accountable,
    certainly the players are too.
    
    :^|
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re Trudeau
    
       For those of you who don't know how the blood-alcohol level
    works here goes... Assuming a 180 pound male, for every drink
    that you have (12 oz beer, 5 oz wine, 1 measured shot) your
    BAL goes up .02   After one hour, your liver metabolizes .02
    worth of alcohol.  So, if you drink one drink per hour your BAL
    would stay pretty close to .00  However, if you have a dozen drinks
    over the course of two hours, then your BAL would be .20
    
    	( .02 * 12 = .24  alcohol ingested - .02 *2 = .04 metabolized
    	alcohol for a net BAL of .20).
    
    This reading suggests that Trudeau had 12 in 2 hrs, 13 in 3, or 14 in 4
    etc...  Of course, people develop tolerances and a .10 on one person
    very well might not have the same effect on another.
    
    Just wanted you all to know because Mikey has to balance his books
    somehow and I wouldn't want any of you folks to have what happenned
    to Jack Trudeau (or worse) happen to you.
    
    Jeff 

Yes, obviously, now this means that all Big Ten quarterbacks are drunk.

Life in T-Land is wunnerful, ain't it ???

Bob Hunt

    
    Why do you guys let T make you look like fools?
    
    
    The instances he pointed out happened when said people were still
    there. Trudeau has been in the NFL for what, 4 years? I don't see
    any relationship between a guy getting arrested for drunk driving
    several years after he leaves school and a coach ordering his team
    to cover-up/suppress evidence in a cocaine death while still holding
    said coaching position for the school. Or point shaving, grade fixing,
    pay-offs etc. WHILE STILL AT THE SCHOOL.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

Hoot,

Thanks for the intervention but look closely at the Lefty Driessel note.
Apparently, this "incident" took place very recently, not at all

>    ... WHILE STILL AT THE SCHOOL.

TTom

One nit wif da BAL:

	There are of course variations which exist.  The variation
	exists due to individuals having different metabolisms.
	Thus, some guys at 180 who have x amount of drinks over
	y amount of time, might have a different BAL that another
	guy, same drinks, same time.

	
	Also, the way BAL is measured will greatly affect the reading.
	Your typical breathalizer test will give you one reading, but
	if a blood sample is used, the reading will be higher.

	They have a new "street" test now, that officers are becoming
	certified in.  Evidently they shine a light in your eyes
	like the doctor would and have you follow it, as the move it
	towards the outside of you vision limits (ie your left eye, they
	move it way left).

	As your eye reaches its farthest point of travel to the outside
	it will bounce a little, back and forth.  On a sober person, this
	occurs at about the outside limits of your eye travel.  The drunker
	you get, the shorter the distance before your eye starts to bounce.

	Really expert cops can estimate the BAL from where your eye starts
	to bounce.

	Also, used to be that if you claimed a head injury in an accident,	
	you got a ride to the hospital, a check up, and no blood test.
	Now, if they suspect you've been drinking, and you claim head
	injury, you're getting a test no matter what....

HTH,
'Saw

    I find it interesting how the flavor of a football team remains even
    though the owner, coaches, and general manager change.
    
    I'm specifically thinking about the Chargers and their inability to
    deal with and handle successfully controversies with peculiar, but
    gifted, players.  Never have they had a player, who had contract
    problems, or wanted to renegoitiate their contract, who they've
    successfully dealth with.  
    
    John Jefferson was off-loaded to Titletown.  Chip Banks to the
    Dickerson show.  Gary Johnson, Fred Dean, and Louie Kelcher to the
    49ers.  Jim Lachay to Redskins through Raiders.
    And now Gary Anderson....to....????  
    
    All these guys were talented players, but somehow, got bored with the
    Chargers and were shipped out of town.  
    
    The Raiders have always dealt successfully with players like this.  The
    Cowboys never have, and so on.  Yet this label sticks with the teams
    regardless of front office moves.
    
    I find it interesting and wonder why it is so.
    
    Live from Charger Central....
    
    Glenn

    Disgruntled Lion QB Chuck Long worked out in Indy and Foxboro then went
    to work out for the Rams.  Wouldn't mind to see Long backing up
    Everett, that will be a reunion of the 2 highest drafted QBs that year. 
    Long has been overshadowing Everett much of their Big Ten careers, up
    until draft day and up to today :)  And the Rams can use a capable
    backup which they do not really have for a while.
    
    Charles

    I got my mailing from the NFL yesterday so I have the complete schedule
    week by week and also for every team.
    
    The open dates are going to be rotated on a divisional business.
    The NFC West is off the weekend of September 30; NFC East, October
    7; AFC East, October 14; NFC Central, October 21; AFC West, October
    28; AFC Central, November 11 and last year's 5th place teams, December
    16.
    
    The Thanksgiving games are Denver at Detroit and Washington at Dallas.
    The Saturday games at the end of the season are:  December 15, Buffalo
    at Giants and Washington at New England; December 22, Detroit at
    Green Bay and Raiders at Minnesota (that night, ABC will televise
    Washington at Indianapolis since there will be no Monday Night game
    on Christmas Eve); December 29, Kansas City at Chicago and Philadelphia
    at Phoenix.
    
    The New England at Miami game is the only game of the season to
    be played on a Thursday night.
    
    The Sunday games are (in order) 9/9 Philly at Giants, 9/16 Houston
    at Pittsburgh, 9/23 Detroit at Tampa Bay, 9/30 Washington at Phoenix,
    10/7 Raiders at Buffalo, 10/14 Rams at Chicago, 10/21 none (replaced
    by 10/18 New England at Miami), 10/28 Cincinnati at Atlanta, 11/4
    Denver at Minnesota, 11/11 San Francisco at Dallas, 11/18 Pittsburgh
    at Cincinnati, 11/25 Seattle at San Diego, 12/2 Green Bay at Minnesota,
    12/9 Philadelphia at Miami, 12/16 Chicago at Detroit, 12/23 Denver
    at Seattle and 12/30 Pittsburgh at Houston.
    
    The Monday games are (in order) 9/10 San Francisco at New Orleans,
    9/17 Kansas City at Denver, 9/24 Buffalo at Jets, 10/1 Cincinnati
    at Seattle, 10/8 Cleveland at Denver, 10/15 Minnesota at Philadelphia,
    10/22 Cincinnati at Cleveland, 10/29 Rams at Pittsburgh, 11/5 Giants
    at Indianapolis, 11/12 Washington at Philadelphia, 11/19 Raiders
    at Miami, 11/26 Buffalo at Houston, 12/3 Giants at San Francisco,
    12/10 Raiders at Detroit, 12/17 San Francisco at Rams, 12/24 none
    (replaced by 12/22 Washington at Indianapolis) and 12/31, Rockin'
    New Years Eve in Nawlins as the Rams visit the Saints.           
    
    John

    I saw the schedule last week in the paper and the first thought I
    had after seeing how the OPEN DATE is rotated is "Thank God my
    team didn't finish in 5th place."
    
    Why make the 5th place teams wait until mid-December to get their
    week off ???  If anything, give them an open date in the middle of
    the season.   Assuming that the 5th place teams from last year
    won't be substantially improved next year, this means they'll be
    racking up their own sets of injuries while the higher placed
    teams will be getting their open dates first and healing their
    wounded.
    
    So, banged-up 5th place teams will be playing healed or healing
    higher placed teams.  Real fair.
    
    Of course, it's the Cowboys who are getting shafted so I'm not
    *too* broken up about it.
    
    Bob Hunt

    Bob,

    Open date at the beginning, end, or middle of the season doesn't matter
    for Dallas. We still have Thanksgiving day game tho' ya hoooo. One 
    Sunday night game with San Fran, great just great, a slaughter in front
    of the whole nation.

    Chuck

But Chuck --

Look at it this way.  For years when the Cowboys were good, we all had
to watch them slaughter our teams.  We got to see in GREAT detail the
way Roger would pick them apart in his two minute drill (arguable the
best two minute drill QB the game has ever seen).

Now, it's our turn.  I cain't help it if I get a visceral thrill watching
the Cowboys get beat up...8^)

Hope this helps,
'Saw

'Saw,

     I know all about pay back being a bitch :-). Besides I've always
     liked the 49ers, in fact they have always been my second favorite
     team the last 2 years. Bandwagon jumping is fun and easy too.

 Chuck

YOU AR TOO BLAM!!!!1 CHUCKVANE!!!

I don't bandwagon jump. 8^)

My two favs are the Giants and Packers.  We both know how the Packers
could handle the 'boys years ago.  Now, hopefully the Giants will
their chance 8^)

Cain't wait for football season....

'Saw

    Can anyone post a complete 1990 NFL schedule?
    

    Only if you give me an optical scanner.  I have it but it's too
    much typing, even for me.
    
    John

    1990 Schedule
    
    January
    February
    March
    April
    May 
    June
    July
    August
    September
    November
    December
    
    Hope that Helped
    
    JD

        <<< Note 5.459 by FSHQA1::JHENDRY "John Hendry, DTN 292-2170" >>>

   > Only if you give me an optical scanner.  
    
    I think this is a good idea!! After all Mr.Hendry does provide for our
    statistic habit!!! Any one out there got a spare one???


Monty
    

    
    	you forgot...
    
    	home			away
    

John --

Send me a copy in inter-orifice snail, and I'll be glad to type it
in....

Send it to me @BMF....



Hep this schleps you all wonk,
'Saw

    	Did someone mention that Seattle's Brian Bosworth has officially
    stated that he is done with football?  Well, I just did.
    
    sean

    	now now H�wkster... let's be civilized.  8^)

    He played things right tho.  He got his money, and is pretty well set
    for awhile.
    
    Glenn

    But for someone who was a legend in his own mind by his junior year in
    college, he didn't amount to even a SLOF in the NFL.
    
    JaKe
    

Great use of SLOF(tm) there, Jake!

The Boz turned out to be the Bozo....

hahahahahahhahahahahhahahahaha(tm)

'Saw

    Yeah, and I'm sure he's crying all the way to the bank.
    
    

    The Eagles have offered Jim McMahon a contract and his agent said the
    possibility of singing with Philly is "intriguing."
    
    	

    Ed "Too Tall" Jones is expected to announce his retirement at a press
    conference later today.

    think hes too tall to retire?? :)
    

    Glad Too Tall is going to retire instead of playing for peanuts for
    another team. Bill Bates is the only one of Landrys good-old boys to
    still be on the team and he won't make the final roster. Too Tall was
    a great one and should have a shot at the HoF. As Hollywood Henderson
    says "the girls at my parties loved Too Tall because he could go all
    night."
 
    Maybe the Giants could sign Too Tall, after all they did sign Everson
    Walls :-).

Chuck

�    Maybe the Giants could sign Too Tall, after all they did sign Everson
�    Walls :-).

And with the Giants Walls' career will finally attain full bloom 8^) 8^)

'Saw

>> And with the Giants Walls' career will finally attain full bloom 8^) 8^)

   'Saw,
   
     I only hope and pray that Walls will be the starting DB when the Giants
     play Dallas. We'll be able to score a few TD's for sure then :-).

   Chuck

Nah, because Troy will be spending a lot of time on his
derriere....8^)

latered dude,
'Saw

    'Saw, I have to respectfully disagree with you on the Aikman comment.
    Troy will blossom this year, he will finally have some receivers
    who won't drop everything in sight.

    
    Ralph Rotten update...
    
    Every other Tuesday The Rotten One now prints letters sent to him.
    Today there was a great one, too bad I don't have the thing with me.
    I will just have to put in the jest of it. 
    
    But first we need a little background. About a week and a half ago
    Ralph printed this gushing story on the bum Gerald Perry, just after he
    got out of a rehab clinic. He went so far as to say the Perry is a good
    guy, never mind his ever growing criminal record.
    
    This lady wrote that Perry is a scumbag and donk fans are sick of
    having to root for a team with him on it. That Denver should have
    gotten rid of the scuzball two years ago. Then she really started 
    ragging on Ralph about his "Perry is a good guy" comment. The best line
    was something like, "what would you say if he wanted to take your
    daughter out?" Then she told Ralph that he is probably a closet RAIDER
    fan, which Ralph vehemently denied by saying "heaven forbid". Thank God
    for that! Unfortunately, The Rotten One didn't reply to the daughter
    question.
    
     	                                           HOOT
    

    Ken Sims was arrested on cocaine charges.  According to yesterday's
    Herald, he'll be shitcanned by the Pats.
    
    Mark.

    
    Too bad about Sims.  A number one draft pick who never really lived
    up to his potential, although I'm not sure if he ever played a full
    season due to a variety of broken bones.
    
    I heard on the radio that he reported to camp very overweight (300+
    lbs.) and that a clause in his contract required him to stay in
    camp until he got into shape.  If that's true, he had no business
    going back to Texas.
    
    I also believe that this is the second time he was involved in some
    kind of drug thing.  Wasn't he mentioned in the drug investigation
    after the Pat's Super Bowl appearance?
    
    Another case of a player shoving a career up his nose.
    
    Dickster
    

�    Too bad about Sims.  A number one draft pick who never really lived
�    up to his potential, although I'm not sure if he ever played a full
�    season due to a variety of broken bones.
 
    I think he had one or two complete seasons in which is was one of the
    team's leading tacklers.
       
�    I heard on the radio that he reported to camp very overweight (300+
�    lbs.) and that a clause in his contract required him to stay in
�    camp until he got into shape.  If that's true, he had no business
�    going back to Texas.
 
    He arrived at the Pats' mini-camp 25 lbs. overweight.  The Pats were
    said to have offered incentives to train in Foxboro, but he opted to go
    back home to train.   
    
�    I also believe that this is the second time he was involved in some
�    kind of drug thing.  Wasn't he mentioned in the drug investigation
�    after the Pat's Super Bowl appearance?
 
    He tested positive for marijuana in 1985 and was one of the players who
    confided in Berry.
       
�    Another case of a player shoving a career up his nose.
    
    Perhaps.  He was arrested for possesion of one small packet of coke. 
    There was another person in the car when he was stopped for speeding. 
    We haven't heard Sims' side of the story yet.    

    

    
    >    There was another person in the car when he was stopped for speeding. 
    > We haven't heard Sims' side of the story yet.    
     
    True, the details are still sketchy.  But I understand the packet
    fell out of Sims' wallet when he was getting his license out.
    
    Awfully nice of Kenny to keep his buddy's stash in his wallet for
    him/her.
    
    From the rumblings in the local press (for what they're worth),
    it does sound like the Pat's are going to give him the ol' Tony
    Collins heave-ho.  I'm not saying that's the right thing to do,
    but it does appear that the Pat's brass has already tried and sentenced
    him.
    
    Dickster
    

 Stop it Mac, your slaying me ;^)

 If it was LT or some other second time offender you'd be leading the
 lynch mob, but he's a dam patsies so.....

 gives a whole new meaning to the nickname "Gameday"....

 mike    

    
    It was revealed in today's Globe that this is not his second offense
    but his third. This was in a quote from an unnamed patriot official.
    That official was also quoted as saying that Sims' contract REQUIRED
    him to stay after mini-camp and work on strength and conditioning.
    When asked why no fuss was made when he didn't the reply was that
    the Pats aren't running a babysitting service. Also the league office
    stated yesterday that they would take a dim view of a Sims release
    strictly on the basis of drug charges until he is convicted.
    

    
    Big Bubba Paris may be on his way out of San Francisco. His estimated
    weight is anywhere between 340 and 370 lbs.! Reportedly, the 49ers have
    told him to lose "considerable" weight or he is gone. 
    
    Maybe he should go see Bo. While at Michigan Bo kept him on a tight
    diet and work-out schedule and he stayed just under 300 while there.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

    
    Why not dump him?  I saw him a couple weeks ago, and he was huge!
    He wouldn't be missed.
    
    Bruce

    
    He might have been huge but he also was very effective.

    
    I don't think he was that effective.  The year Montana went down
    with the bad back was because Bubba was repeatedly getting beat.
    He is a good run blocker, but I wouldn't trust him against the pass.
    
    Bruce

    DULL...DULL...DULL!
    
    Hockey over.  Basketball over.  Baseball on (big deal until the CS). 
    No Football yet!   
    
    DULL...DULL...DULL!DULL...DULL...DULL!
    
    Glenn

    The July edition of "Inside Sports" give a run-down on each team. 
    Here's a capsule for each team:
    
    Bills:  The Bills peaked in the AFC game of 1988 and are on the way
    downhill now.  Even if Kelly delivers, the Bills may not be able to.
    
    Colts:  On the wire!  If George pans out, they'll do fine.  If
    not...watch out.
    
    Dolphins:  Complacent team that can't overcome mediocrity.
    
    Pats:  Rod Rust cannot make the Patriots shine again.  Sullivan may be
    gone too if the Pats miss the playoffs again.
    
    Jets:  They'll move up, but O-Line looks horrible.
    
    Browns:  Bud Carson is in "win-or-else" situation.
    
    Oilers:  Glanville had best personnel in AFC and couldn't deliver.  Run
    & shoot O and will show more heart.
    
    Steelers:  Walton as O-coordinator will help alot.  Noll letting go of
    O.
    
    Bengals:  Super Bowl bound.
    
    Broncos:  Closer to winning Super Bowl than most teams.
    
    Chiefs:  Okoye can take Chiefs only to wild-card round of playoffs.  No
    further.
    
    Raiders:  Time didn't pass the Raiders by, the Raiders spent too much
    of the late '80s just passing time.
    
    Seahawks:  Back up the truck; it's time to start over.
    
    Chargers:  Not far away from being over the hump.  If Tolliver pans
    out...
    
    Giants:  Don't get rid of Simms for another year.
    
    Eagles:  Cunningham's not as good as he thinks.
    
    Redskins:  Gibbs is hinting at retirement.  Manley won't regain former
    stature.  Who's the every-down back?
    
    Cards:  Terrible move by forcing Stallings out.  Bidwell needs serious
    management training.
    
    Cowboys:  Johnson's an excellent coach and should stick to coaching. 
    The Cowboys should bring in an experienced GM.
    
    Vikes:  Herschel can't put the Vikes over the top.  A QB can.
    
    Pack:  Not the team of the 90's.  Re: Mandarich - "No one is a bust
    after one year."
    
    Lions:  Run & Shoot isn't just a fad!
    
    Bears:  Hampton's absence has a dramatic impact!
    
    Bucs:  To be this bad takes bad trading, scouting, coaching, and
    contract negotiating - and the Bucs have it all.
    
    49ers:  Could make history and make it a three-peat!
    
    Rams:  Could be ready for ultimate level.  2nd best team in football.
    
    Saints: 87's 12-3 mark was a fluke.  The decline has been gradual, but
    definate.
    
    Falcons:  Glanville will turn them into nasty, hustling, gambling team.
    
    
    Live from Charger Central.....
    
    Glenn

    
    I read some of it. I loved the wavering on the donks. The first line
    was one about being closer to winning a SB than most. Read further and
    they basicly say their OL, DL and D-backfield sux. Also that Elway "is
    not a great QB", that Bradshaw was right.(but we already knew that)
    Shoot, the only thing left is RB, Receivers and LB.
    
                                                   HOOT
    

       ...seem to be right on the mark with the raiders too, eh HOOT??
                                             Denny

    
    Pretty much. At least Al admitted he made the biggest football mistake
    he ever made and canned that stiff Shanahan.

    I read that article .... I.S. implied that Moon is not a Super Bowl
    caliber QB, and probably would be better off with another team.
    How ignorant can you get. 
    
    I'd like to ask a question of Bob Hunt (wherever you are) :
    
    The writer said that Cunningham is in love with himself, possibly
    lost some motivation after signing his contract, and shifts blame.
    It gave short shrift to his WR problems, and the offsensive
    coordination. 
    
    Have you heard any of these things on the Philly grapevine about
    Cunningham ?

    � I'd like to ask a question of Bob Hunt (wherever you are) :
    
    Right here, dude ...
    
    � The writer said that Cunningham is in love with himself, possibly
    � lost some motivation after signing his contract, and shifts blame.
    � It gave short shrift to his WR problems, and the offsensive
    � coordination. 
    
    Randall Cunningham is a young, gifted, talented athlete.  He's got good
    looks, a couple of fistfuls of cash, some cool cars, and kids want to
    wear his football jersey.   If *I* were Randall Cunningham, I'd like
    the heck out of myself, no questions asked.
    
    He likes the limelight, he likes the pressure, he likes being on
    Arsenio Hall's show.
    
    He also likes to win football games.  He has, by now, helped his team
    win some fairly important regular season games.  Just ask the New York
    Giants if and how Randall can beat them.   To date, Randall has not
    performed well in an NFL playoff game.  That's the next step.  He knows
    it.
    
    When it comes down to business, Randall Cunningham is a serious man. 
    He does the things that have to be done.   Things like late-night film
    sessions, extra game plan meetings, and so on.
    
    I believe that a number of things happened last year that may have
    taken some of the bloom off his rose, so to speak.   First, the
    contract.   It was Week 2 and he had just pulled off one of the
    greatest wins of all time.  The Eagles beat the Skins, 42-37, in RFK
    with an incredible comeback.  This loss just about buried the tough
    Skins for the year.   After the game, they announced his new huge
    contract.  Where could he go from there ???    I know that Joe Montana
    would have known that the journey wasn't over yet but the young Eagles
    quarterback may very well have concluded that he could "cruise" through
    the remainder of the season in that same high-flying gear.
    
    So, first, yes, Cunningham may have let down after he signed his
    contract and whupped the Skins on the same day early in the season.
    
    Factor No. 2:  Buddy Ryan went completely, totally, 100% into a
    running game strategy after that Week 2 win over the Skins.  It
    frustrated Cunningham, no doubt about it.   But it was effective.  Just
    ask the Donks and their fans about the Week 7 game in Mile High.   The
    Eagles took the opening kickoff and ran 14 straight running plays to
    get to the end zone.  Then they took the ball back and did it again. 
    All on the ground.  Yes, the Broncos did take a short-lived lead late
    in the game but the Eagles had plenty of gas left to stomp on and win
    the game.
    
    Randall naturally resisted the running game strategy but he had to see
    that it worked to the team's benefit.   They finished 11-5 and you
    don't win 11 NFL games without a running game to finish them off.  
    Unless you're Dan Marino.
    
    Ryan wanted the *total* game and he had to force-feed the running game
    into the Eagles offense until it was swallowed and digested and made a
    permanent part of the attack.  The Eagles had well over 1,500 yards
    last year on the ground.
    
    Factor No. 3:  Randall Cunningham is still a young man.  He publicly
    admits that he needs adult guidance.  Both his parents died in the same
    year a few years back.  Randall's "father figure" after he lost his
    parents was his quarterback coach, Doug Scovil.  Well, Scovil died the
    day before the Eagles played the rematch with the Cowboys with that
    whole "bounty" nonsense going on.  Early December, I think.   So there
    he was again alone to face the world, so to speak.   It affected him,
    no doubt.  Yeah, someday he'll have to learn to function all on his own
    but, hey, I'd be devastated if I lost my folks and then my coach /
    father, too.
    
    Conclusions ???   Randall Cunningham's NFL career has only just
    started.  There are still heights to climb and valleys to climb out of. 
    He is overrated by those who claim he is the "QB Of The 1990s".   But,
    then again, we still have 10 more seasons to go in the 1990s.  He could
    very well be that special athlete.   I'm signed on for the duration.  I
    believe in him and his abilities.   I'm glad he wears green and silver.
    
    Bob Hunt

    If I'm not mistaken, Randall is also the youngest sibling in his
    family.  His brother Sam who played for USC and New England is about
    14 years older than Randall.  I don't think he and Sam are at all
    close and I don't think he gets a lot of guidance from his siblings.
    That can't help either.
    
    John

    	Randall also lost Mike Quick.  Probably for good.
    
    				/Don

    �	Randall also lost Mike Quick.  Probably for good.
    
    Perish the thought.
    
    In my previous analysis of Randall Cunningham, I left out the injuries
    suffered by the Eagles' receivers.
    
    Not only was Mike Quick gone for the year after around Week 3 or 4 but
    Greg "Trash" Garrity broke his collarbone in the San Diego loss and
    Keith Jackson was banged up all year long.  He took a hit from Ronnie
    Lott that put him in the hospital with back spasms and then he had
    knee, shoulder, and ankle problems the rest of the year.
    
    Cris Carter and Ron Johnson stayed healthy but neither of these players
    has a "complete" game.  Unlike Quick, Cris Carter *hates* going over
    the middle.  Hates it and won't do it.   So, he runs sideline patterns
    and end zone corner routes.  He's got great hands but he limits his
    availability.  Ron Johnson will go over the middle but doesn't do well
    in heavy traffic.  Who does for that matter ???
    
    The Eagles picked up Carlos Carson midway through the season but he
    lost his hands en route from Kansas City.  Dropped everything thrown to
    him.
    
    So, essentially Cunningham lost his best "all-around" receiver in
    Quick.  Quick was also his only real deep threat since Carter won't run
    those routes.  He also lost his best "possession" receiver when Garrity
    went down.  Jackson was only half effective the whole year.
    
    What was left ???  Carter on the sidelines and in the corners, Johnson
    only if wide open, Jackson limping, and Keith Byars out of the
    backfield.  Byars has wonderful hands but he's a load and is not a deep
    threat.   He's a screen and safety valve man.
    
    Yes, every team has injuries.  Some more than others.  It's a team game
    and if part of the team goes down, well, the team suffers.  Millionaire
    quarterback or not ...
    
    Bob Hunt

    Thanks fo the great notes Bob. I've heard of many of those same
    factors, on and off the field. But I'll let you read the I.S. article.
    (Or I'll enter it when/if I have the time.)
    
    IMO, it was a thinly veiled hatchet job. It was alos the same writer
    who took some nasty cracks at a few other players as well, and I
    doubt if it was warrented ....

    
    re Playoff games,
    
    I thought he played pretty well in the Fog Bowl ..... 

    re: Mike Quick
    
    I saw a report (last week I think) on Mike Quick and it said his
    recovey is ahead of schedule. He has started running on a track and
    should be ready when the season is over.
    
    As far the Eagle's receiver situation is concerned, Gregg Garrity and
    Ron Johnson will both be released before training camp, and two of the
    draft choices have been designated as the "starting" wide recivers.
    Buddy said that Mike quick will be given every opportunity to get his
    job back, but that the Eagles aren't counting on him being there.
    Carter is supposed to be the third down WR that will com in in long
    yardage situations.
    
    Dennis
    

    
    I heard the PATS dumped Kenny Sims like a (large) sack of hot potatoes.
    they tried to work a trade, but there were no takers.  I'm sure
    there were no takers since it was clear the team was going to give
    him the heave-ho anyway.
    
    The "reason" was that he did not live up to his contract agreement
    to maintain his playing weight when he reported to camp (270 lbs.),
    and showed up in the "Fridge" rang of 130 lbs. or so.
    
    The news also reported that he had a $50,0000 bonus clause in his
    contract for keeping his weight down.  50 grand for losing weight??
    Hey, offer me fifty thousand clams to lose weight, and I'll say
    "How much do you want me to lose, when do you want it done by, and
    get me some Ultra Slim Fast(tm) and point me to the gym.  If you
    have the check with you, we'll go do liposuction this afternoon."
                                         
    Well, Ken, maybe "The Fat Boys" are looking for another member.
    
    Dickster
    

    
    -1  OOPS...the "Fridge" range is more like 330 lbs.
    

    	I thought you meant one of those portable models Dick.

Will McDonough was hypothesizing on the NFL's plans for expansion and realign-
ment over the next decade.  Chances are there'd be an expansion first and then
a realignment.

Apparently, the league plans to expand to 32 teams in 2 16-team conferences
with 4 4-team divisions in each conference.  This would make scheduling easy.
A team would play 6 games in its own division, 4 games from the other conference
with its division's partner for the year, and 6 other games in its conference.
A first place team would play the 3 other first place teams, a second place
team, a third place team and a fourth place team.  A second place team would
play the 3 other second place teams, a first place team, a third place team and
a fourth place team.  A third place team would play the 3 other third place
teams, a first place team, a second place team and a fourth place team.  A 4th
place team would play the 3 other fourth place teams, a first place team, a 2nd
place team and a third place team.  If I've done the math right, there's a bal-
anced schedule right there.

The realignment is the most interesting part.  McDonough said the alignment 
would be based on getting rid of the geographical anomalies first and then 
balancing off the TV markets between the AFC and NFC.  Most likely teams to
change divisions are Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, Kansas City, New Orleans, At-
lanta, Tampa Bay and Indianapolis.  Most likely conference swap is Buffalo to
the NFC East and Philadelphia to the AFC East.

Among the more likely expansion cities (my own opinion) are Baltimore, St Louis,
Jacksonville, Birmingham, Memphis, Oakland or Los Angeles (depending on what the
Raiders do) and perhaps either Honolulu or Montreal.  The expansion will shape
the alignment but things are going to be radically different in the future.

John
    

Put Charlotte on the list of "most likely". You could say that they
bought their way in a couple of years ago when they gave the NFL a very
large line of credit at one of the local banks - NCNB - for a strike
fund. Ever since then, the local media has been talking almost like they
expect us to get one of the expansion teams.

TTom

    Naturally, I'm biased towards a Charlotte entry as well but I can't see
    Baltimore and St. Louis as automatic locks for a new franchise.
    
    I would hope that one of the first things that an NFL expansion
    committee would discuss is past history.  Believe me, I have nothing
    against Baltimore and St. Louis but the fans did not exactly bust down
    their doors trying to get in.
    
    Yes, Irsay is a jerk for spiriting the Colts out of town in the dead of
    night and, yes, Bidwill is an idiot for leaving and then blatantly
    charging the sky-high ticket prices he charges in Phoenix.   But should
    those cities get a "sympathy" franchise to make up for it ???
    
    I don't necessarily think so ...
    
    Bob Hunt

    I'm not sure, but I would suspect Birmingham to be out of the expansion
    picture since they are a city in the World Football League...right? 
    What other cities would this eliminate?
    
    	--dan'l

Memphis is also getting a WFL team. Whether this precludes NFL or if they
would roll in all into the same team is unknown by this noter.

The story line on St. Louis and Baltimore is that recent history suggests
that perhaps the lack of success in these franchise histories might be a
function of the owners. We shall see.

TTom

    I'm surprised no one mentioned Atlanta and Boston - neither one
    of these cities currently has a professional football team.
    
    ;-)
    
    JD

    I'd forgotten about Charlotte as an expansion site.
    
    I agree about St Louis, the football Cards didn't seem to be all that
    well-supported even when they did well.  I disagree about Baltimore. 
    Colts tickets were as tough to get as any in the NFL before Irsay took
    over the franchise.  They were extremely well supported and have a
    great tradition as well.
    
    John

    John,
    
    With your AFC East background, I would consent to your facts but I just
    don't recall the Colts drawing all that well in their bad years.  No
    doubt that they packed 'em in during the heydays of Johnny Unitas, Alan
    Ameche, Ray Berry, and such and then again during the Bert Jones years. 
    But did they really draw all that well when things weren't so rosy ???
    
    You are correct, though, about the 'tradition' of the Baltimore Colts. 
    One of the best themes running through "Diner", a great little movie
    from about 10 years ago that portrayed the young people who gathered at
    a small, late 50s Baltimore greasy spoon, was how one of the young men
    refused to marry his high school sweetheart until she could answer a
    series of Colts trivia questions.
    
    Talk about pressure ...
    
    Bob Hunt

    Bob,
    
    The Colts bad years really didn't start until Bob Irsay took over if I
    remember correctly.  I don't know how they drew from 1953-1956, when
    they started to get good, but from 1957 through the sixties and into
    the mid-seventies (when they were still good), Memorial Stadium was a
    guaranteed sell out all the time.  The Colts didn't get consistently
    bad until the late seventies and into the eighties, that was after Bert
    Jones was gone, when Tiger was firmly in control and Baltimore fans
    staying away from Colts games was a protest against ownership as much
    as it was a protest of bad football.  I'm convinced that had the Colts
    gotten bad under different ownership, the team still would have been
    supported and would probably still be in Baltimore today.
    
    Another thing about Baltimore is that there is still a Baltimore Colts
    Marching Band that is still active and in fact has gotten even bigger
    since the Colts left.  Contrast this to St Louis where there is almost
    no memory of the football Cardinals and in fact any references to them
    were booed when I made that trip with the Patriots last summer.  St
    Louis doesn't necessarily deserve a team but may get one (in defense of
    the St Louisans, their lack of fan support was probably anti-ownership
    as well) but I believe Baltimore deserves a team.
    
    John

�    With your AFC East background, I would consent to your facts but I just
�    don't recall the Colts drawing all that well in their bad years. 
    
    Other than the Giants, who does?

    Good point.  The Jints fans are legendary in their suffering.  So are
    Iggles fans.
    
    Bob Hunt

Quick work-related (believe it or not) question:

What's the status of instant replay officiating for the 1990 season? Did the
league decide to stay with it or abandon it? 

Thanks,
Brian

Instant replay is still intact but is now limited to 2 minutes. If the
replay booth doesn't overrule the call within two minutes than the call
stands....

mike

    Anyone hear who won the draft rights to Rob Moore in today's
    supplemental draft?  I think I read it was supposed to be at 1:00.
    
    					Steve

    According to the Patriots conference, the Jets drafted Rob Moore.  That
    gives them Al Toon, Reggie Rembert and Rob Moore to go along with Jo Jo
    Townsell and whoever else they have at WR.
    
    John

    	To bad the Jets don't have a quarterback to throw to all those
    talented receivers.
    
    				/Don

    There are about 20 other NFL teams that would start Kenny O if they had
    him.  Yes, at quarterback, /Don.
    
    Dan, anticipating /Don's snappy comeback

    This certainly gives the Jets a first rate crew of WRs...any
    possibility that one of them might be put on the trading block to try
    and fill another need?
                          
    
    py

    >This certainly gives the Jets a first rate crew of WRs...any
    >possibility that one of them might be put on the trading block to try
    >and fill another need?
    
    I doubt it.  Toon's still young (26,27).  He's much too good to trade
    also.  Rembert, tho' enormously talented, has some question marks
    besides being a rookie.  His college days didn't do the best job of
    preparing him.  Moore is very exciting, but again, just a rookie.  I
    can see a future planned around all 3, and from what I know about the
    rookies, they can be insurance for each other.
    
    The report on Moore is great speed (he timed "good" with a bad
    hamstring in rainy conditions - he says he has much better times),
    great hands, great patterns.  His leaping is extraordinary.  He was
    considered top 5 in the draft if he had come out in the normal phase.
    
    Perhaps they'd consider trading Rembert, but I wouldn't.
    
    Does anyone know if the Jets won the lottery for the right to draft
    Moore, or did another team, and then pass on him?
    
    Dan

Changing the subject slightly....

Did anyone catch that show on Discovery channel the other night
called Living Dangerously?

It profiled some former football players, and how crippled they
are from playing.  One was named Stillwell (I think) and he played
DL for the Bears.  The game films showed Scramblin' Fran QBing against
them, and Walter Payton on the squad, so perhaps that'll help date
it. (I caught the show midway through, and so I didn't catch names/dates).

The other player they showed was the great Jim Otto (Old 00 himself).

Both men are hurting.  Stillwell (or whatever-his-name-is) coaches high
school ball, but walks with a cane, needs a knee brace and back brace
and has to ice himself twice a day (back and knee).

Otto also walks with a cane, and his knees look BAD.  He had a back
operation also.  He owns three Burger King Restaurants in the
Northern CA area....

A pretty interesting and somewhat scary study.....

later,
f�

    
    "Hog" Hannah used to do some radio gab in Boston, and he used to
    talk a lot about how he paid his dues for the big money and the
    fame and the glory.  His legs and knees are shot, his back hurts,
    and his shoulder is at only XX percent of full usage.  Throw in
    some weak ankles, some scars, and some twisted fingers, and it is
    readily seen the permanent damage from football that these guys
    have to live with.
    
    I also understand that these guys have a notoriously short life
    span in relation to the general population, but some of that may
    be related to size alone.  I think those players who have been in
    the league for 5-plus years and do not have some kind of permanent
    damage are few and far between.
    
    Dickster
    

    Joe Montana's showed amazing resiliancy throughout his already long NFL
    career, and I'd hate to see what this guy winds-up looking like 10-20
    years after he retires.  The guy has made his mark on football, someone
    who may never again be bettered in our lifetimes, but if he winds up
    like a Jim Otto, would it be worth it?  
    
    H�wk

    Dallas won the lottery and passed.  Atlanta was second and passed. 
    Jets were 3rd and took him.  Patriots were 4th.
    
    John

Actually, I think the damage comes from the amazing amount of physical
contact.  Montana, as a QB, would be immune to a lot of that, compared
to a lineman.

I remember reading somewhere that it's not unusual for a lineman to
come into the league at 6'5 and over the next 7 or 8 years be compressed
to 6'3...

When does the NFL 1990 regular season begin?

Thanks,
Brian

    NFL regular season begins on Sunday, September 9 and runs through
    Monday, December 31 with the Rams at New Orleans.  This year's 16 games
    are being played over 17 weeks, each team has one week off during the
    season.  The Jets, Chargers, Cowboys and Bucs are off Week 14 (12/9),
    the NFC West is off Week 4 (9/30), NFC East is off Week 5 (10/7), AFC
    East is off Week 6 (10/14), NFC Central is off Week 7 (10/21), AFC West
    is off Week 8 (10/28) and AFC Central is off Week 10 (11/11).  The
    preseason begins with the Hall of Fame Game in Canton, Ohio on
    Saturday, August 4 (Bears vs Browns, I believe) and a game in Tokyo
    between Denver and Seattle.  The annual game in Wembley Stadium, London
    is on Sunday, August 5 between the Raiders and Saints.  Preseason gets
    underway in earnest the next weekend and continues through Labor Day
    weekend.  First round of playoffs is Jan 5-6, second round is Jan
    12-13, Conference Championships are January 20, Super Bowl XXV is in
    Tampa on January 27 and the Pro Bowl is in Honolulu on February 3.
    
    John

    The Philadelphia Eagles have signed free agent QB Jim McMahon as a
    backup to Randall Cunningham.

    Well, since you asked, the Jets season begins on Sunday, September 9th
    in Cincinnati where the Jets will crush the Bengals.
    
    The schedule is like this:
    
    9/9	 Cincy
    9/16 CLEVELAND
    9/24 BUFFALO
    9/30 Patsies  (look for /Don in his bikini in the stands getting a tan)
    10/7 Miami  (shootout, Kenny over Marino)
    10/14 SAN DIEGO (Glenn, double or nothing?)
    10/21 buffalo
    10/28 Houston
    11/4�DALLAS
    11/11 MIAMI
    11/18 Indianapolis
    11/25 PITTSBURGh
    12/2  SAN DIEGO (Glenn...triple or nothing?)
    12/9  no game
    12/16 INDIANAPOLIS
    12/23 PATSIES (/Don weeps as he buys me my 12 pack)
    12/30 Tampa Bay

    Well, since you asked, the Jests season begins on Sunday, September
    9th in Cincinnati, and ends there that same day!!  :*)
    
    Lee

    Jerry Seeman will be stepping down as an NFL referee after this season
    to replace the retiring Art McNally as NFL Supervisor of Officials. 
    Smilin' Jerry has been in the league for about 15 years and has been a
    referee since 1979.  He was the referee for Super Bowl XXIII in Miami
    between San Francisco and Cincinnati.
    
    John

    I see that they did eliminate the extra week between the Championship
    games and the Super Bowl.  As much as I hated the 2 weeks of SB hype,
    I'd rather have it back and take away those mid-season weeks off.  The
    main reason being that I'd like to see 2 well-rested teams in the Super
    Bowl, and adequate time for players to recover from minor injuries and
    be at their best, not slightly hampered......
    
    JMHO.
    
    H�wk

 Yeah Hawk that two weeks has made all the difference in the world for
 the Donks....  ;^)

 mike

    Acktually, I was going to say something in regards to the Donks and how
    that extra week doesn't help them anyway, but JD's been raggin' on 'em
    pretty good, and it ain't footaball season yet......  :-)
    
    H�wk

< Note 5.542 by CNTROL::CHILDS "just lookin for some good clean fun" >
                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Super tune, Mike.  That whole album is a bitchin' album.  The only
thing that would make it better were if Duane were with 'em.....


Re the Week off:

Personally, I like it.  I know that there's one Sunday during the
season that I can actually do something other than watch football.
I would never miss a Giants game...

I mean, it's funny.  When I was a kid, the nuns and priests always
told you how you had to go to Church every Sunday.  I thought that was
like a pretty big joke, kinda like the guys in Rotary, who couldn't
miss a meeting.

Well, I didn't care much about going to church, but I would NEVER miss
a Giants game....NEVER.

And it's the same now.  If the Giants are on, I'll find a way to watch
them.  Knowing that I have a Sunday in October where I can invite 
a pretty lady to check out the fall foliage, and do Sunday dinner, is
cool.

Course with my luck, it'd rain that day 8^)


'Saw

        <<< Note 5.544 by CAM::WAY "Candy crunch courtesy of McMahon" >>>


>Super tune, Mike.  That whole album is a bitchin' album.  The only
>thing that would make it better were if Duane were with 'em.....


Saw, when did the Album come out? I know I need one bad!!!

mike

Very recently.

I picked mine up last Sunday, in Sam Goody's at the Buckland Hills
Mall.  If they have it there, they've got to have it somewhere near
you....

Check out the title track 'Seven Turns' when you get it.  Dicky Betts
wrote it, and I kinda like it....

later,
'saw

    Sam Goody?  Wasn't he a tight end for the Broncos, but moved to
    center when they signed Elway, but quit the team saying Mr. Ed's
    hoofs were too cold?  That Sam Goody?  I didn't realize he owned
    a record store.  My, how the might have fallen.
    
    JD

Could be the same person, JD.

The store was decorated in an orange and blue motif, and most
of the staff was practicing the heimlich manuver on each other.

While I was there, a lady came in eating some chicken wings for
the KFC nexted door, and they threw her out... Only problem was
she was intercepted at the door....

Schlep this wonks your deen,
'Saw

    Pat "Weasel-Face" Sullivan just said no to Tony Collins who wanted to
    re-establish his old connections with the Patriots.
    
    Dan

    I like the week off before the super bowl, not for the media hype, but
    the teams get to rest a little longer to get rid of all those little 
    nagging injuries. I read an article about them taking away the week
    and how it will effect the fans of the two teams going to the super 
    bowl. The article said that it is taking time away from them on
    preparing for trip, (season ticket holders that elect to go). You 
    find out your going one sunday and you've got to make all the
    arrangements and be there in about 5 days, it was a real interesting
    article, it had more set backs about it, it made a lot of sense.
    Also very interesting how the Jets are playing the Bengals first week
    of the season, since the Jets new coach was the Bengals offensive
    cordn. 
    
                                                    Dan

   Keith McCants signed with the Tamp Bay Buc's last week. I think
   he was the 3rd player taken over all. Don't remember the exact numbers
   of the contract but it sounded like they got him cheap, relatively
   speaking.

Chuck

    
Here is something that I work on back in 1987 and now I see that the Will 
McDonough borrow my idea? I based my plans for expansion and realignment
of the NFL on Earl Weavers revised Major League Baseball. Also before St.
Louis became Phoenix. I didn't base this on TV rating either.


			The "Weaver Plan"
			Revised For The NFL

A plan on the same idea as Earl Weaver's for the NFL. This would mixed teams 
into geographic divisions but keep the AMERICAN CONFERENCE and the NATIONAL
CONFERENCE. The conferences would be broken into two divisions, EASTERN and 
WESTERN each with eight teams. The divisions would be farther broken into two 
conferences(like the old NFL). Keep the sixteen game regular season. Teams  
would play teams in their conferences twice and division opponents once (build  
in tie breaker for home field). This leaves six games free for the league to 
schedule.The playoff format could look one of two ways.

A. The conferences winners would play for the division titles. 
   The division winners would play for AFC and NFC titles.
   The AFC and NFC title winners would then play in the Super Bowl.
 

B. Teams finishing one and two in each conference would qualify for the 
   playoffs.(*)
   The first place team from one conference would play the second place team
   from the other conference but still in the same division. The conference
   winner would have home field regardless of their overall record.
   The winners would then play for the division championship.  
   The division winners would play for AFC and NFC titles.
   The AFC and NFC title winners would then play in the Super Bowl.
   
   (*)This could replace the wild card system now used. The problem that may 
      arise is teams with losing records or poorer records that another team in
      the other conference would qualify for the playoffs. Here is an alterna-
      tive plan that could be used. The conference winners and the next two 
      teams with the best records regardless of conference would qualify.  

Here is how the AFC and NFC would look under the "Weaver Plan"

				   AFC

		EASTERN DIVISION	          WESTERN DIVISION

Atlantic Conference Central Conference Midwest Conference Pacific Conference 
MIAMI		    BUFFALO	       CINCINNATI	  L.A. RAIDERS
NEW ENGLAND	    CLEVELAND	       DENVER	          SAN DIEGO
N.Y. JETS	    INDIANAPOLIS       HOUSTON		  SEATTLE	
EXPANSION TEAM (1)  PITTSBURGH	       KANSAS CITY	  EXPANSION TEAM (2)   


				   NFC

		EASTERN DIVISION	          WESTERN DIVISION

Eastern Conference Central Conference Midwest Conference Western Conference 
ATLANTA		   CHICAGO	      DALLAS		 L.A. RAMS
N.Y. GIANTS	   DETROIT	      NEW ORLEANS	 SAN FRANCISCO
PHILADELPHIA	   GREEN BAY	      ST. LOUIS		 EXPANSION TEAM (3)
WASHINGTON	   MINNESOTA	      TAMPA BAY		 EXPANSION TEAM (4)

Here is a list of prospective expansion teams
(1) BALTIMORE  (2) OAKLAND  (3) PORTLAND  (4) PHOENIX
Looks like a list of former USFL teams.

This mix of teams is set up into geographic divisions within a region. Natural
rivalries will be a by product of this. The owners might see a major beneficent
by cutting the cost of travel.This however didn't balance the strength of the
divisions or the conferences.


Here is a plan like Mr. Weaver's as we set up geographic divisions and align
teams regardless if they where in the NFC or AFC,but create a new AMERICAN
FOOTBALL CONFERENCE and NATIONAL FOOTBALL CONFERENCE. 
The schedule and playoff format could look the same as above.


				  NEW AFC

		EASTERN DIVISION	          WESTERN DIVISION

Northeast Conference Southern Conference Central Conference Midwest Conference 
BUFFALO		     ATLANTA	         CINCINNATI	    DALLAS
NEW ENGLAND	     MIAMI	         CLEVELAND	    DENVER
N.Y. JETS	     NEW ORLEANS         INDIANAPOLIS	    HOUSTON	
N.Y. GAINTS          TAMPA BAY	         ST. LOUIS(5)	    KANSAS CITY 

				   NEW NFC

		EASTERN DIVISION	          WESTERN DIVISION

Eastern Conference Central Conference Northwest Conference Southwest Conference 
EXPANSION TEAM (1) CHIAGO	      EXPANSION TEAM (2)   L.A. RAIDERS
PHILADELPHIA       DETROIT	      EXPANSION TEAM (3)   L.A. RAMS
PITTSBURGH	   GREEN BAY	      SAN FRANCISO	   EXPANSION TEAM (4)
WASHINGTON	   MINNESTOA	      SEATTLE		   SAN DIEGO

Here is a list of prospective expansion teams
(1) BALTIMORE  (2) OAKLAND/SACRAMENTO  (3) PORTLAND  (4) PHOENIX

*07/19/1990 Now I would add to expansion cities in this manner.
(1) BALTIMORE/CHARLOTTE
(5) Now ST. LOUIS becomes an expansion city with BIRMINGHAM and MEMPHIS added
    as possible sites for the opening in the new AFC Central Conference.  

JACKSONVILLE, MONTREAL, and TORONTO also as possible sites.

    The only flaw in the plan is balancing the TV markets between the two
    conferences, and keeping teams in 2 cities (Giants and Jets, Rams and
    Raiders) in 2 different conferences.  That's an important principle the
    NFL must follow in its realignment, and which is why McDonough
    mentioned the possibility of the Eagles and Bills switching
    conferences.
    
    John

Wk Team			Division
 4 ATLANTA		NFC West
 4 LA RAMS
 4 NEW ORLEANS
 4 SAN FRANCISCO

 5 NY GIANTS		NFC East
 5 PHILADELPHIA
 5 PHOENIX
 5 WASHINGTON

 6 BUFFALO		AFC East
 6 INDIANAPOLIS
 6 MIAMI
 6 NEW ENGLAND

 7 CHICAGO		NFC Central
 7 DETROIT
 7 GREEN BAY
 7 MINNESOTA

 8 DENVER		AFC West
 8 KANSAS CITY
 8 LA RAIDERS
 8 SEATTLE

10 CINCINNATI		AFC Central
10 CLEVELAND
10 HOUSTON
10 PITTSBURGH

14 DALLAS		NFC East
14 NY JETS		AFC East
14 SAN DIEGO		AFC West
14 TAMPA BAY		NFC Central

		    1990 NFL Schedule

     wk date     time  visitor          HOME
     -- -------- ----- ---------------- ---------------
      1 09-09-90 13:00 seattle          CHICAGO
      1 09-09-90 13:00 tampa bay        DETROIT
      1 09-09-90 13:00 la rams          GREEN BAY
      1 09-09-90 13:00 minnesota        KANSAS CITY
      1 09-09-90 13:00 phoenix          WASHINGTON
      1 09-09-90 16:00 houston          ATLANTA
      1 09-09-90 16:00 indianapolis     BUFFALO
      1 09-09-90 16:00 ny jets          CINCINNATI
      1 09-09-90 16:00 pittsburgh       CLEVELAND
      1 09-09-90 16:00 san diego        DALLAS
      1 09-09-90 16:00 denver           LA RAIDERS
      1 09-09-90 16:00 miami            NEW ENGLAND
      1 09-09-90 20:00 philadelphia     NY GIANTS
      1 09-10-90 21:00 san francisco    NEW ORLEANS

      2 09-16-90 13:00 atlanta          DETROIT
      2 09-16-90 13:00 chicago          GREEN BAY
      2 09-16-90 13:00 new england      INDIANAPOLIS
      2 09-16-90 13:00 buffalo          MIAMI
      2 09-16-90 13:00 cleveland        NY JETS
      2 09-16-90 13:00 phoenix          PHILADELPHIA
      2 09-16-90 13:00 la rams          TAMPA BAY
      2 09-16-90 16:00 ny giants        DALLAS
      2 09-16-90 16:00 new orleans      MINNESOTA
      2 09-16-90 16:00 cincinnati       SAN DIEGO
      2 09-16-90 16:00 washington       SAN FRANCISCO
      2 09-16-90 16:00 la raiders       SEATTLE
      2 09-16-90 20:00 houston          PITTSBURGH
      2 09-17-90 21:00 kansas city      DENVER

      3 09-23-90 13:00 minnesota        CHICAGO
      3 09-23-90 13:00 new england      CINCINNATI
      3 09-23-90 13:00 san diego        CLEVELAND
      3 09-23-90 13:00 kansas city      GREEN BAY
      3 09-23-90 13:00 indianapolis     HOUSTON
      3 09-23-90 13:00 phoenix          NEW ORLEANS
      3 09-23-90 13:00 miami            NY GIANTS
      3 09-23-90 13:00 dallas           WASHINGTON
      3 09-23-90 16:00 seattle          DENVER
      3 09-23-90 16:00 pittsburgh       LA RAIDERS
      3 09-23-90 16:00 philadelphia     LA RAMS
      3 09-23-90 16:00 atlanta          SAN FRANCISCO
      3 09-23-90 20:00 detroit          TAMPA BAY
      3 09-24-90 21:00 buffalo          NY JETS

      4 09-30-90 13:00 denver           BUFFALO
      4 09-30-90 13:00 green bay        DETROIT
      4 09-30-90 13:00 tampa bay        MINNESOTA
      4 09-30-90 13:00 dallas           NY GIANTS
      4 09-30-90 13:00 indianapolis     PHILADELPHIA
      4 09-30-90 13:00 miami            PITTSBURGH
      4 09-30-90 16:00 cleveland        KANSAS CITY
      4 09-30-90 16:00 chicago          LA RAIDERS
      4 09-30-90 16:00 ny jets          NEW ENGLAND
      4 09-30-90 16:00 houston          SAN DIEGO
      4 09-30-90 20:00 washington       PHOENIX
      4 10-01-90 21:00 cincinnati       SEATTLE

      5 10-07-90 13:00 new orleans      ATLANTA
      5 10-07-90 13:00 tampa bay        DALLAS
      5 10-07-90 13:00 san francisco    HOUSTON
      5 10-07-90 13:00 kansas city      INDIANAPOLIS
      5 10-07-90 13:00 ny jets          MIAMI
      5 10-07-90 13:00 detroit          MINNESOTA
      5 10-07-90 13:00 seattle          NEW ENGLAND
      5 10-07-90 13:00 san diego        PITTSBURGH
      5 10-07-90 16:00 green bay        CHICAGO
      5 10-07-90 16:00 cincinnati       LA RAMS
      5 10-07-90 19:30 la raiders       BUFFALO
      5 10-08-90 21:00 cleveland        DENVER

      6 10-14-90 13:00 san francisco    ATLANTA
      6 10-14-90 13:00 houston          CINCINNATI
      6 10-14-90 13:00 detroit          KANSAS CITY
      6 10-14-90 13:00 cleveland        NEW ORLEANS
      6 10-14-90 13:00 san diego        NY JETS
      6 10-14-90 13:00 green bay        TAMPA BAY
      6 10-14-90 16:00 pittsburgh       DENVER
      6 10-14-90 16:00 seattle          LA RAIDERS
      6 10-14-90 16:00 dallas           PHOENIX
      6 10-14-90 16:00 ny giants        WASHINGTON
      6 10-14-90 19:30 la rams          CHICAGO
      6 10-15-90 21:00 minnesota        PHILADELPHIA

      7 10-18-90 20:00 new england      MIAMI
      7 10-21-90 13:00 ny jets          BUFFALO
      7 10-21-90 13:00 new orleans      HOUSTON
      7 10-21-90 13:00 denver           INDIANAPOLIS
      7 10-21-90 13:00 dallas           TAMPA BAY
      7 10-21-90 13:00 philadelphia     WASHINGTON
      7 10-21-90 16:00 atlanta          LA RAMS
      7 10-21-90 16:00 phoenix          NY GIANTS
      7 10-21-90 16:00 la raiders       SAN DIEGO
      7 10-21-90 16:00 pittsburgh       SAN FRANCISCO
      7 10-21-90 16:00 kansas city      SEATTLE
      7 10-22-90 21:00 cincinnati       CLEVELAND

      8 10-28-90 13:00 philadelphia     DALLAS
      8 10-28-90 13:00 minnesota        GREEN BAY
      8 10-28-90 13:00 ny jets          HOUSTON
      8 10-28-90 13:00 miami            INDIANAPOLIS
      8 10-28-90 13:00 buffalo          NEW ENGLAND
      8 10-28-90 13:00 detroit          NEW ORLEANS
      8 10-28-90 16:00 washington       NY GIANTS
      8 10-28-90 16:00 chicago          PHOENIX
      8 10-28-90 16:00 tampa bay        SAN DIEGO
      8 10-28-90 16:00 cleveland        SAN FRANCISCO
      8 10-28-90 20:00 cincinnati       ATLANTA
      8 10-29-90 21:00 la rams          PITTSBURGH

      9 11-04-90 13:00 new orleans      CINCINNATI
      9 11-04-90 13:00 buffalo          CLEVELAND
      9 11-04-90 13:00 washington       DETROIT
      9 11-04-90 13:00 san francisco    GREEN BAY
      9 11-04-90 13:00 la raiders       KANSAS CITY
      9 11-04-90 13:00 phoenix          MIAMI
      9 11-04-90 13:00 dallas           NY JETS
      9 11-04-90 13:00 new england      PHILADELPHIA
      9 11-04-90 13:00 atlanta          PITTSBURGH
      9 11-04-90 16:00 houston          LA RAMS
      9 11-04-90 16:00 san diego        SEATTLE
      9 11-04-90 16:00 chicago          TAMPA BAY
      9 11-04-90 20:00 denver           MINNESOTA
      9 11-05-90 21:00 ny giants        INDIANAPOLIS

     10 11-11-90 13:00 phoenix          BUFFALO
     10 11-11-90 13:00 atlanta          CHICAGO
     10 11-11-90 13:00 minnesota        DETROIT
     10 11-11-90 13:00 seattle          KANSAS CITY
     10 11-11-90 13:00 indianapolis     NEW ENGLAND
     10 11-11-90 13:00 tampa bay        NEW ORLEANS
     10 11-11-90 13:00 miami            NY JETS
     10 11-11-90 16:00 green bay        LA RAIDERS
     10 11-11-90 16:00 ny giants        LA RAMS
     10 11-11-90 16:00 denver           SAN DIEGO
     10 11-11-90 20:00 san francisco    DALLAS
     10 11-12-90 21:00 washington       PHILADELPHIA

     11 11-18-90 13:00 philadelphia     ATLANTA
     11 11-18-90 13:00 new england      BUFFALO
     11 11-18-90 13:00 houston          CLEVELAND
     11 11-18-90 13:00 san diego        KANSAS CITY
     11 11-18-90 13:00 detroit          NY GIANTS
     11 11-18-90 13:00 new orleans      WASHINGTON
     11 11-18-90 16:00 chicago          DENVER
     11 11-18-90 16:00 ny jets          INDIANAPOLIS
     11 11-18-90 16:00 dallas           LA RAMS
     11 11-18-90 16:00 green bay        PHOENIX
     11 11-18-90 16:00 tampa bay        SAN FRANCISCO
     11 11-18-90 16:00 minnesota        SEATTLE
     11 11-18-90 20:00 pittsburgh       CINCINNATI
     11 11-19-90 21:00 la raiders       MIAMI

     12 11-22-90 12:30 denver           DETROIT
     12 11-22-90 16:00 washington       DALLAS
     12 11-25-90 13:00 indianapolis     CINCINNATI
     12 11-25-90 13:00 miami            CLEVELAND
     12 11-25-90 13:00 tampa bay        GREEN BAY
     12 11-25-90 13:00 chicago          MINNESOTA
     12 11-25-90 13:00 atlanta          NEW ORLEANS
     12 11-25-90 13:00 ny giants        PHILADELPHIA
     12 11-25-90 16:00 kansas city      LA RAIDERS
     12 11-25-90 16:00 pittsburgh       NY JETS
     12 11-25-90 16:00 new england      PHOENIX
     12 11-25-90 16:00 la rams          SAN FRANCISCO
     12 11-25-90 20:00 seattle          SAN DIEGO
     12 11-26-90 21:00 buffalo          HOUSTON

     13 12-02-90 13:00 philadelphia     BUFFALO
     13 12-02-90 13:00 detroit          CHICAGO
     13 12-02-90 13:00 la rams          CLEVELAND
     13 12-02-90 13:00 kansas city      NEW ENGLAND
     13 12-02-90 13:00 cincinnati       PITTSBURGH
     13 12-02-90 13:00 atlanta          TAMPA BAY
     13 12-02-90 13:00 miami            WASHINGTON
     13 12-02-90 16:00 new orleans      DALLAS
     13 12-02-90 16:00 la raiders       DENVER
     13 12-02-90 16:00 indianapolis     PHOENIX
     13 12-02-90 16:00 ny jets          SAN DIEGO
     13 12-02-90 16:00 houston          SEATTLE
     13 12-02-90 20:00 green bay        MINNESOTA
     13 12-03-90 21:00 ny giants        SAN FRANCISCO

     14 12-09-90 13:00 phoenix          ATLANTA
     14 12-09-90 13:00 san francisco    CINCINNATI
     14 12-09-90 13:00 seattle          GREEN BAY
     14 12-09-90 13:00 cleveland        HOUSTON
     14 12-09-90 13:00 buffalo          INDIANAPOLIS
     14 12-09-90 13:00 minnesota        NY GIANTS
     14 12-09-90 13:00 new england      PITTSBURGH
     14 12-09-90 16:00 denver           KANSAS CITY
     14 12-09-90 16:00 new orleans      LA RAMS
     14 12-09-90 16:00 chicago          WASHINGTON
     14 12-09-90 20:00 philadelphia     MIAMI
     14 12-10-90 21:00 la raiders       DETROIT

     15 12-15-90 12:30 buffalo          NY GIANTS
     15 12-15-90 16:00 washington       NEW ENGLAND
     15 12-16-90 13:00 atlanta          CLEVELAND
     15 12-16-90 13:00 phoenix          DALLAS
     15 12-16-90 13:00 houston          KANSAS CITY
     15 12-16-90 13:00 seattle          MIAMI
     15 12-16-90 13:00 pittsburgh       NEW ORLEANS
     15 12-16-90 13:00 indianapolis     NY JETS
     15 12-16-90 13:00 green bay        PHILADELPHIA
     15 12-16-90 13:00 minnesota        TAMPA BAY
     15 12-16-90 16:00 san diego        DENVER
     15 12-16-90 16:00 cincinnati       LA RAIDERS
     15 12-16-90 20:00 chicago          DETROIT
     15 12-17-90 21:00 san francisco    LA RAMS

     16 12-22-90 12:30 detroit          GREEN BAY
     16 12-22-90 16:00 la raiders       MINNESOTA
     16 12-22-90 20:00 washington       INDIANAPOLIS
     16 12-23-90 13:00 la rams          ATLANTA
     16 12-23-90 13:00 miami            BUFFALO
     16 12-23-90 13:00 tampa bay        CHICAGO
     16 12-23-90 13:00 cincinnati       HOUSTON
     16 12-23-90 13:00 new england      NY JETS
     16 12-23-90 13:00 dallas           PHILADELPHIA
     16 12-23-90 13:00 cleveland        PITTSBURGH
     16 12-23-90 16:00 ny giants        PHOENIX
     16 12-23-90 16:00 kansas city      SAN DIEGO
     16 12-23-90 16:00 new orleans      SAN FRANCISCO
     16 12-23-90 20:00 denver           SEATTLE

     17 12-29-90 12:30 kansas city      CHICAGO
     17 12-29-90 16:00 philadelphia     PHOENIX
     17 12-30-90 13:00 dallas           ATLANTA
     17 12-30-90 13:00 cleveland        CINCINNATI
     17 12-30-90 13:00 indianapolis     MIAMI
     17 12-30-90 13:00 san francisco    MINNESOTA
     17 12-30-90 13:00 ny giants        NEW ENGLAND
     17 12-30-90 13:00 buffalo          WASHINGTON
     17 12-30-90 16:00 green bay        DENVER
     17 12-30-90 16:00 san diego        LA RAIDERS
     17 12-30-90 16:00 detroit          SEATTLE
     17 12-30-90 16:00 ny jets          TAMPA BAY
     17 12-30-90 20:00 pittsburgh       HOUSTON
     17 12-31-90 20:00 la rams          NEW ORLEANS

NFL owners are set to confirm a plan for expansion for 1992 and 1993.
Supposedly, there is nearly unanimous agreement to expand and the only
issue is to reward franchises to some of the old cities - Baltimore and
St. Louis are being mentioned - or to some of the new cities, such as
Charlotte and Memphis.

TTom

       Don't they have to get a collective bargaining agreement with the
    players before they cain expand?
                                   Denny

    65 year old NFL referee Ben Dreith has filed an age discrimination suit
    against the NFL in protest of his demotion from referee to line judge.
    Fred Wyant is also being demoted but there's no suit involved there.
    
    There's a weekly column in the Sporting News called The Quarterback
    written by Vito Stellino.  Further details are in there.
    
    John

       We'd all be much happier if ol' Ben woulda retired in '75, eh John?
                                            Denny

    The Phoenix Cardinals opened up camped yesterday in Flagstaff, AZ.  
    
    DL Hairston (ex-Brown) was in camp.  Roy Green is expected to sign his
    contract and be in camp by week's end.
    
    Other than that it was non-eventful.
    
    Mike

    Austin, TX is starting to be bad news for pro football players.  The
    Cowboys are now holding camp in Austin (so far it's rained for the
    entire camp - something about this black cloud that follows the 'boys
    around).  WR Kelvin Martin was arrested for speeding the other night
    (Ken Simms, ex-New England Pat was arrested for same a few weeks ago).  
    
    This part should probably go into the Joke topic, but:  While trying to
    outrun the cops, he headed for a parking garage.  The problem was, the
    garage he decided to hide in was the one for the APD headquarters.

>        Other than that it was non-eventful.

    Just like the rest of the 1990 season.
    
    Mark.    

    
    The Detroit Lions are having some trouble with some of their
    players currently under contract.  Jerry Ball and Lomas Brown
    want their contracts re-negotiated.  Ball has two years left on
    a 5 year contract and Brown has a year left.  I can't understand
    these players that demand long term contracts, they get them and
    in the middle of the contract they want to renegotiate them.
    
    The GM for the Lions said "Why bother giving players long term
    contracts if they do not live up to them."  Are any other teams
    having the same trouble as the Lions?
    
    /pjb

    
    When the party of the first part signs a contract with the party
    of the second part, both sides are taking some risk.
    
    The player's (talking foo'ball, bassetball, and bazeball too)
    production may tail off, and he's still paid the big bucks. Take
    Bob Stanley as an example, or Mark Langston, or Tony Eason, (although
    I believe the Pat's had an "out" clause somewhere with Eason if
    he were released.)  If the contract is guaranteed, the player wins
    and management loses.
    
    On the other hand, if a player continues to excell, and comparable
    players in the league are surpassing his take-home pay, this player
    feels like he's screwed.  Funny, but this same player felt he was
    screwing management when he originally signed his contract.  Management
    wins and the player "loses."
    
    The only way re-negotions will stop is if management in all sports
    decide that "enough is enough. You signed it.  You don't like it,
    don't play.  How would the players association feel if we asked
    certain players to re-negotiate down after an off year?  We'd be
    in court so fast...."
    
    You pay/accept the money, you takes yer chances.
    
    Dickster
    

    Dickster,
    
    The difference between baseball and basketball vs football is that in
    the first two, most contracts are guaranteed.  In the NFL, very few
    are.  If a baseball or basketball player signs a long term contract and
    then turns into a dog, the team is stuck with him because the contract
    is likely guaranteed.  In football, since they aren't guaranteed, if a
    player starts playing lousy, it's see you later.
    
    In Eason's case, the team in effect had to pay him for half the season
    because he's a vested veteran.  NFL players accumulate pay at 1/16
    salary for each game they're under contract (active, inactive,
    developmental or injured).  A 5-year veteran gets half a season salary
    guaranteed if he's released before half the season is over.  After
    that, the team is only liable for each game he's on the roster.  There
    was no special out clause, he just didn't have a guaranteed contract.
    
    John

   Anyone had any word on whether or not they'll be allowing the teams to
   continue the developmental squads?

   I think it used to be up to six guys. I heard the players association
   was griping because pay for the D Squad was $1000 per week (for the
   weeks they are there... I think about 28 -32 weeks). The minimum for a
   rookie is $60K. I'd suspect the guys on the D Squad would like to tell
   the Players Association to put it where the sun don't shine (I hear
   people say that, and have always assumed they meant Seattle...
   HAHAHAHA  (tm)). They'd probably much rather be getting paid 28 -  32K
   to work on their game, than be getting whatever they might manage to
   earn in the real world.

   Mike JN

    The Developmental Squads have been discontinued, the teams will be
    allowed to have 45 men active for each game and 2 inactives per game
    for a total of a 47-man active roster.
    
    John

    To answer the note in the Charlotte Hornets note, the Queen City seems to
    have come out the front runner in expansion into new markets.  About
    half the front page of the Observer today shows newly released
    architectural drawings of the proposed stadium.  Looks suspiciously
    identical to Joe Robbie Statium.
    
    The article quotes the Chicago Tribune as saying the NFL plans to
    expand by two teams in '93, one new market and one city that previously
    had a team and that the front runners seem to be Charlotte and St.
    Louis.  
    
    Even though the stadium is a copy, it looks like a beaut, especially
    with the ever-growing uptown area in the background.  Joe Robbie
    stadium sits out in the middle of nothing which kind of makes it look
    like a monster on the horizon.
    
    FWIW.
    
    	--dan'l

    The articles in today's "Charlotte Observer" went on to explain that
    the architectural design firm is the same one that designed Joe Robbie
    Stadium.  Hence the coincidence.
    
    Also, apparently the late Joe Robbie gave some advice to the Richardson
    Sports group that is looking to bring a franchise to Charlotte.  Robbie
    advised the group to design a 70,000 seat stadium instead of a 65,000
    seater.   With 70,000 seats, the stadium authority can bid for the
    Super Bowl.  65,000 couldn't, I guess.
    
    One other factor is in Charlotte's favor and that is the plans for the
    stadium call for mostly, if not fully private funding.  Baltimore, on
    the other hand, will use all public bond issue funds for a new stadium
    and thus can't break ground until a franchise is granted.   The
    Richardsons have said that they want to wait until a franchise is
    secured but the fact is they *could* start the construction whenever
    they want to.
    
    An NFL team in Charlotte would be wonderful.   I would line up for
    season tix in a flash.
    
    Bob Hunt

>    Richardsons have said that they want to wait until a franchise is
>    secured but the fact is they *could* start the construction whenever
>    they want to.
    
    In fact, the city started clearing the land a few weeks ago so as soon
    as the papers are signed, the Richardsons will start digging and I hope
    the property value for my uptown condo will rise, not fall because of
    it.  That's what I was banking on when I bought the place a few months
    ago.  So you see, while I'm standing in line with Bob for tickets I'll
    be discussing either the great resale value I'll have or the biggest
    financial bungle of my young life.
    
    	--dan'l
    

   The paper today said a poll was conducted among EX-NFL  Quarterbacks
   inquiring as to who they would rate as the top quarterbacks among those
   currently in the league. In spite of such avowed Elway-haters as
   Bradshaw and Unitas (never forgave him re: Baltimore, so still has a
   stiffened appendage for Mr Ed) the results were:
   	1) Montana
   	2) Marino
   	3) Elway

   Mike JN

    At last!  An NFL team near my home!!! 
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

>   The paper today said a poll was conducted among EX-NFL  Quarterbacks
>   inquiring as to who they would rate as the top quarterbacks among those
>   currently in the league. In spite of such avowed Elway-haters as
>   Bradshaw and Unitas (never forgave him re: Baltimore, so still has a
>   stiffened appendage for Mr Ed) the results were:
   	1) Montana
   	2) Marino
   	3) Elway

   Mike JN


What do expect from a Denver paper to say the bum came in last? :^) How a
QB who has thrown as many intys as TD's can be rated so high is beyond me.
Again I guess they just rated him for his athletic ability and not his actual
play calling or leadership abilities....

Anyways thanks for the laugh, Mike....

mike 

�  Anyways thanks for the laugh, Mike....

Mike C

   Anytime...... Where's my Tee-Shirt?

   PS -  Sometimes I get so torqued at Elway I'm tempted to watch soccer.
   But all-in-all, he manages to win games. Not Superbowls (at least not
   yet, but at least he gets them there.... think of all the `loser' teams,
   that would love to make it that far.... like cleveland, atlanta,
   dallas, tampa, jests, etc.)

   Mike JN

 Tee Shirts have been ordered and hopefully will be done pretty soon.
 It might be a bit though as they realize that the game isn't until
 8/25 so they might get less priorities than other orders but rest
 assured they will be done and you'll get one, of course after I
 receive some moolha....

 mike

    Hey gang...does anyone have the schedule of "by's" for this season?
    
    JoJ

    JoJ, the list of byes is in note 5.554.
    
    
    py