Conference hbahba::cam_sports

Now that we have a separate topic, probably any and all interest will
expire ;-)

TTom

Well, I for one would like to know more.

Bridge is a game that, along with poker, seems to be popular in the military.
From what I've heard MacArthur loved to play bridge.

So, 'splain it to me teachers!

Bridge is not all that complicated.

You deal 4 hands. Each get 13 which you keep to yourself. Ace beats and
king, etc. 

There are 2 distinct parts of the game: bidding, or the contract, and the
playing.

Bidding has 2 general philosophies. In both, you try to reach a balance
between the amount and the suit that is trump.

The firsted, sometime called American is to announce the suit of your
choice that you'd like to see become trump. Then in a very subjective
manner, you and your partner attempt home in on how many of what you've
already been told is the best suit.

The second, of which there are many, starts with strength of hand.
Continued bidding is a_indication of mutual strength. Once you find the
level, the the suit sorta falls into place.

The basis of a bid is measured by what they call High Card Points (HCP).
An Ace is worth 4, a King is worth 3, a Queen is worth 2, and a jack is
worth 1. Nothing else counts for HCP. Most systems suggest that you keep
you mouth shut, at least at the opener, unless you have a minimum of 12
or 13 points.

Bidding is a declaration of how many tricks you think you can take. The
firsted 6 don't count so the most you can take/bid is 7 (6+7=13).

I'll post some typical bidding hands when I can find some. Most of the
ones in papers have wrinkles in them and aren't really suitable for
learning since they tend to emphasize exceptions.

Just like in Chess, there's some really good beginning and intermediate
boosk and some really bad ones. I have a couple at home and I'll post
'em.

Like I said, there's a pretty good set of stuff to get started but then
you can go fer quite awhile without worrying about some of the weird
stuff.

TTom

Thankee TTom.

I never figgered a toofless, West-By-Gawd-Virginny boy like you was into
something that complicated, seein' as how yer one of them thar fellas who
won't put no worm on his hook as it might interfere wif his fishin'....


Sounds complicated, but in a way (kinda sorta) it reminds me of setback.


'Saw

    Well maybe I'm wrong, it's been years since I sat down and read
    Charles Goren's Tome on bridge.  I think when they do duplicate they
    throw out deals which have little action associated but probably they
    shouldn't.
    
    	Making 1 spade or 2 diamonds is sometimes the most difficult and
    skillful type of play there is.
    
    	And as you all know; the big money is setting the zealous
    overbidders.  Nothing like those redoubled points 2-5-8-11(00).  Excuse
    me, 4-9-  Wait a minute how does it go ... Ttom,Steve,..?????
    
    billte having my neurons go on strike
    
    

The idea of taking tricks and trumping is something common to a lot of
card games, the most noteable exception being cribbage.

High card takes the trick whether you want it or not. 

Sometimes the trump is good and takes the trick - bridge, spades, etc. -
and sometimes it's bad and it counts against whoever won the trick as in
hearts.

I learned bridge at a very early age. Both my parents were avid players
so when I was old/tall/big enough to sit in a chair, put 13 cards in my
hand and understand a J from a Q and diamonds from clubs, I've been
playing.

I put this on hold for a while but returned to bridge mainly in one of my
firsted attempts to go to school. While pretending to go to school I
actually spent most of the day playing bridge and shooting pool. A buddy
turned me on to duplicate bridge which really appealed to me since it
removes a lot of the elements of luck in the game, primarily, the luck of
the draw. Pass that Yarborough to the nexted table and let them smell it!

Duplicate really works when you know what your partner means when he bids
and plays. Every bid, including Pass (i.e., no bid), means something and
the more precise you can narrow that meaning, the better you'll bid.

Same goes for the playing. You have to count the cards or you won't have
much success. And every card including when you're just tossing one on
the pile - discarding - is done to communicate something, like how many
in that suit you have.

TTom

I moved it hear so don't think we took your cards away:

Ah yes, scoring.

Well tricks count 30 each when hearts or spades are trump, 20 each when
diamonds or clubs are trump and when there's no trump, the firsted on
counts for 40 and the rest count for 30.

It takes at least 100 points to score a game. The firsted team to 2 games
wins the rubber. As soon as you win one game you attain a state known as
"vulnerable".

All that's called below the line.

If'n the other guys bid and don't make it, you get points above the line.
I'll dig up the matrix of what you get based on doubling, redoubling,
vulnerable, etc. Suffice it to say, you can lose more in one hand then
get for winning the whole rubber.

TTom

    I bid 2 no trump.
    
    NAZZ

>    I bid 2 no trump.

In some systems, this is demand bid, meaning that if'n you were holding
that there Yarborough you'd still have to say something. Since you have
no high card points, most people want to hear the suit in which you have
the most cards.

The convention[s] I play make 2 no trump a bid you can pass. I play weak 2
bids which describe a hand with at least 6 in the suit bid and no more
than 11 points (if'n you have 5, you have to bid 1 of the suit to show
point count.)

In that system, a bid of 1 club is forcing and no matter what you're
holding you have to say something.

Now this introduces a second level of bidding. It's one thing to have
your partner bid and the nexted guy pass. In this case you're responding
to a bid. There's all sorts of rules and guidelines for responding.

If'n the other guy bids, you are over-bidding and it takes more to
over-bid than simply respond. For one thing, it takes you off the hook
for required responses. Also, this is refered to as a free bid since the
auction will get back to your partner even if'n you and the nexted guy
pass. Since it's a free bid, you better have something to justify opening 
your mouth.

TTom

    Do you bid a fake 3 bid if you have at least seven of a suit with an
    honor?
    
    NAZZ

>    Do you bid a fake 3 bid if you have at least seven of a suit with an
>    honor?

What I balance is the High Card Points and the distribution.

My guidelines are

	if'n 12 points, bid 1 no matter distribution
	if'n 9-11 points, bid 2 if'n you got 6 or more
	if'n 6-8 points, bid 3 if'n you got 7 or more

The hardest thing to describe is you point totals. So I try to come out
of the shoot describing this. If'n you're still talking after a couple of
rounds, then you got the points for game and then it's just a matter of
which is the bested, if any suit.

As for the opening 1 bid, I play the standard convention that it promises
5 cards if'n I bid 1 spade or 1 heart. Else, I use a 1 Diamond that
doesn't mean a lot in terms of suits or distibutions but promises 12
points. And, as I said, 1 club is *STRONG*.

For a 1 No trump bid, my book says balance and at least 15 points.

TTom

    
    >I bid 2 No Trump
    
    Bearing in mind that this appears to be an opening bid (the first one)
    and that A=4 K=3 Q=2 J=1 and 1 point for each distribution point (1
    point for each card missing to make 3 cards in each suit, thus a
    distibution of 4 clubs, 4 diamond, 4 hearts and 1 spade yields 2
    distribution points since 3-1 = 2) using the convention system that I
    use;  You have just stated that you have 21-23 points with a stopper in
    at least three suits (stopper is an A or K with 1 backer or Q with 2
    backers)
    
    This tells me that you have a very powerful hand (hint all 4 A's = 16
    points and you said 21-23)
    
    Concerning the 3 something bid, this is known as a preemptive bid.  The
    intent of this bid is to tell your partner that you have a seven card
    suit but not that many points.  It also "shuts the other team up" so
    that (most of the time) they can not bid.  Most of the time, even
    though the bidder has less than � of the points, this bid is
    successful.
    
    Marc
    
    P.S.  TTom was right about the 0 point had as a "friendly rule"
    

There's a lot of different 2 bid conventions.

Usually, with 20 points you let the other guy know, one way or another,
that you're fairly loaded. Remember, you only need around 26 to have a
game so you're already close just using your hand.

Marc, the system I play doesn't count distribution at the earliest
rounds. I emphasize high card points. Voids and singletons are good to
know about and are mentioned as first of second round control of the
suits.

And No trump implies a fairly evenly distributed hand. Personally, I
never bid no trump with either a void or 5 hearts or 5 spades. These
major suits have special status in all of bidding cause it only takes
making a bid of 4 (6 that don't count plus 4) in a major, while clubs and
diamonds need 5.

TTom

    
    TTom,
    
    I'd be interested in knowing which books you recommend for different
    conventions.  I often disagree with the one I use and am looking for
    one that better suits my style of play (as well as my partners).
    
    Marc
    

I have to say I'm amazed at how much traffic this note is getting.  I had no
idea we had so many bridge players.  Hell, we should probably start our
own tournament, although I don't know how we'd begin....

'Saw

    
>And No trump implies a fairly evenly distributed hand. Personally, I
>never bid no trump with either a void or 5 hearts or 5 spades.
    
    After trying 1 NT with a 4-4-4-1, only to have my partner transfer
    me to my singleton, I vowed never again to open NT with a singleton
    either...
    
    Joe

    
    Joe,
    
    Obviously I don't know how the bidding went, but if you had enough to
    open with 1NT, why didn't you try to find a matching suit by rebidding
    one of your 4 card suits?
    
    Marc
    

Marc,

I'm on the road in Knoxville but when I get back tonight I'll look up the
current book I'm recommending. It's all about bidding and it has a good
summary of points, penalties, and all the other good scoring things.

As can easily be seen, everyone has their own little systems.

I'm biased to majors so I try to mention them if'n I can.

TTom

    
>    Obviously I don't know how the bidding went, but if you had enough to
>    open with 1NT, why didn't you try to find a matching suit by rebidding
>    one of your 4 card suits?
    
    That was the problem -
    
    If my partner's weak, we could be _worse_ off in another suit.
    
    If my partner's strong, he'll probably keep pushing to get me to
    bid his suit.
    
    As I recall, I bid his suit (figuring a _known_ 6 card match at
    the two level was no worse than what any other option), he bid
    again, and I moved us back to NT.  Went down, as I recall; my
    partner extracted a promise from me never to open NT with a
    singleton again on the spot... B^)
    
    Joe                               

The book that I keep around both as a reference and to settle some 
disputes about scoring and the like is

	_Commonsense Bidding_
	by William S Root
	with a Forward by NY Times Bridge Editor, Alan Truscott

Root is one of your better teachers who's actually a pretty good player,
too. Truscott is a_internationally ranked player as well as Editor.

This book is positioned pretty well in the learning curve. While not 
a_introductory book, you don't have to know all that much other than the 
52 cards, high card wins, bid, etc. type of things. But it's also a good
what I'd call a Level II book. That's the huge gap between barely knowing
the rules and being a_expert.

It's about bidding which is the hardest part of the game. I write a lot 
of Statements of Work and bidding is a lot like them. You try to 
accurately and precisely describe what's happening as well as how much 
the whole thing will cost. With a poor description, you're playing 
catchup on the project from jump. With the wrong price you're gonna
either lose the job of lose money doing it.

Now, this isn't to say that you have to agree with what Root or any other
buy says. He's just trying to tell you how most people bid the hands. For
instance, as stated previously, I strongly favor major suit bids. Root
thinks it's OK to open No Trump on a balanced hand even if'n you have 5
hearts of spades (i.e., 5-3-3-2 distribution). Note to Joe: this aint no
singleton ;-);

And the bestest part of this or any other book is to grab a partner and 
agree on what the hail you mean when you open your mouth.

TTom

    
> Root thinks it's OK to open No Trump on a balanced hand even if'n you have 5
> hearts of spades (i.e., 5-3-3-2 distribution). Note to Joe: this aint no
> singleton ;-)
    
    Yeah, yeah - though if I didn't open my 5 card major, I think my
    partner would be nearly as confused as a NT bid with a singleton... B^)
    
    Most interesting NT bid I've had - I had a 2NT open.  My partner bids
    4C - Gerber.  3 aces = 4NT response.  Partner responds with 5C -
    Gerber continuation.  2 kings = 5S response.  Partner bids 5NT?!?
    For lack of anything better to do, I pass.
    
    Partner then comes down with 7 clubs and an outside entry - on a
    favorable lead, we made 7NT; 6NT or 6C is cold.
    
    Turns out, while I was bidding Gerber, my partner was bidding
    Blackwood (4C was a natural bid)... B^)
    
    Joe
    

I thought you were gonna tell us that you answered told 'im how many
Qeens you had :*).

From Root (responses to opening 2 NT bids):

2NT show a balanced hand and 21-23 points.
Responder says
	pass with balance and 0-3 points
	3NT with balance and 4-9 points (no major)
	invite slam (4C Gerber) with 10 or more points.

Caint say four clubs and mean four clubs. You can say 3 clubs if'n that's
your suit, though.

TTom

    
    Reading the last couple reminds me of one of the most unusual hands
    I've ever seen that occurs last Saturday.  I'm the third person in the
    bidding order and I look at my hand and see 26, yes 26 points, the most
    I've ever seen in a hand.  
    
    So I'm expecting my partner and the opposition to pass, but NO, my
    partner opens with 3D.  I'm sitting there with a dumb founded look on
    my face because I have no clue what to respond with properly.  I ask
    for the book and guess what, no clues there either.  Hmm, what to do. 
    So I carefully reexamine my hand, see two potential losers, take a
    gamble and bid 6D, opposition doubles.  Result:  Partner makes the 
    slam and we get a TON of points.
    
    Marc
    

The guideline on responding to pre-emptive bids, like opening at the
three level is to count the number of tricks you can take, not just high
card points.

A pre-emptive bid, promises few, if any tricks if'n the suit bid is not
the final trump. If'n you don't get you're way, you're  hand is almost
worthless. So, to respond to a pre-empt, you have to have trick taking
power. I'm sure with 26 points, you had a_Ace or 2. 

In fack, with you're 26 and your partner's ~7 you're rightfully in the
slam zone.

The other thing in responding to a 3 bid is that No Trump should be
approached with caution. Your partner's hand by definition is very
distributional (7-2-2-2, or worse) and most likely lacking much strength
outside the suit bid. You may not be able to get to the hand to run that
suit.

TTom

    
From Root (responses to opening 2 NT bids):

>2NT show a balanced hand and 21-23 points.
>Responder says
>	pass with balance and 0-3 points
>	3NT with balance and 4-9 points (no major)
>	invite slam (4C Gerber) with 10 or more points.
>
>Caint say four clubs and mean four clubs. You can say 3 clubs if'n that's
>your suit, though.
    
    Not if you play Stayman over 2NT (which we do) - 3C asks for a
    four card major.  You could try 3C - whatever - 4C is you don't
    play transfers; we do, using 3S to transfer to either minor.
    The best bidding would have gone 2NT - 3S - 4C - 4NT - 5S - 6C,
    I think...
    
    Joe

    I believe one of the rules of Blackwood is to not use it in a no-trump
    contract where the Gerber is preferred except I never used Gerber and
    in that case would have used the combined points rules and interpreted
    suit bids as meaning "I have Ace here".
    
    Had a convention with an expert where he played "Unusual no-trump" to
    indicate forcing bid of best minor suit only not the minor suit but one
    under.  Ended up in 5-d double,redoubled, vulnerable and should have
    made it but blew it because I couldn't get back to dummy to lay down.