| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 169.1 | | CAMONE::WAY | Alas poor baldric | Mon Jun 06 1994 10:25 | 45 |
| Lee, I think that's the longest note I've ever seen you write. 8^)
You pose some awfully good questions, and I've often pondered that on quiet
evenings in the back yard, watching the sun going down, drinking a beer or that
cup of coffee after dinner.The questions for me usually come in relation to my
father, who was half a world away, fighting against the other Axis power.
On Saturday, I met a group of submarine vets from WWII. I naturally asked
if any in the group had served on the Spadefish, and one fellow said that
he hadn't, but that he'd been in the Sea of Japan with her. My dad had
briefly mentioned a wolfpack operation in 1945, where Spadefish, with
8 other boats had entered the Sea of Japan to wreak havoc. This fellow
had served on the Crevalle.
He asked me if my dad had related how they got into the Sea of Japan,
and that's one thing that I had pried out of my dad one time -- they
entered submerged, through mine fields. At one point a mine cable scraped
down the entire starboard side of the Spadefish -- so I guess by rights,
I shouldn't be here, because that mine should have detonated....
The cool thing was that my dad had no knowledge of this group of submarine
vets, and through my efforts, I've put him and them in touch with each
other -- kind of an early Father's Day present.
As to D-Day, all I can say is that the beaches and the cliffs of the
American area are imposing today, without all of the anti-invasion
obstacles and gunfire. To imagine hitting the surf a hundred yards out,
wading ashore, and trying to work your way up the bluffs today would
be difficult. I'm not sure I could do it.
Add to that equation a pack, a rifle that weighed probably 15 pounds
(but it was and still is a great weapon), and someone shooting artillery
and machine guns at you -- that all tilts the equation out of the realm
of imagination.
I can't come up with any answers for your questions, Lee. In some
instances, like with Eisenhower's decision to go and not wait two weeks,
hindsight shows it was the right decision, but for most, like the questions
you ask, we'll never know......
'Saw
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| 169.2 | | CSOA1::BACH | They who know nothing, doubt nothing... | Mon Jun 06 1994 10:46 | 20 |
| All Hitler had to do was respond with his two Panzer divisions
a bit sooner and we would have lost one heckova lot more guys
and more than likily not taken France.
All it took was a "feeling" by him that Normany was the invasion
not Calise.
I thought the best parts of the story was how they set him up with
the fake Patton army (FUMAC), and the double agent sending wrongful
information...
Ike and Bradley has some painful moments.
I also liked that fact that those destroyer captains decided to take
night positions during the day to cover the guys getting creamed on
Omaha.
Good shows about it, thats fer sure.
Chip_GSH_Bach
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| 169.3 | | CAMONE::WAY | Alas poor baldric | Mon Jun 06 1994 11:01 | 21 |
| >
> Ike and Bradley has some painful moments.
>
Ike carried the following message with him, from June 5th, until
July, in his wallet:
Our landings in the Cherbourg-Havre area have failed
to gaine a satisfactory foothold and I have withdrawn
the troops. My decision to attack at this time and
place was based upon the best information available.
The troops, the air, and the Navy did all that bravery
and devotion to duty could do. If any blame or fault
attaches to the attempt it is mine alone.
Good thing he never needed to send that one.....
|
| 169.4 | our furher | NWD002::JOLMAMA | smoke on the chess board | Thu Jun 09 1994 18:11 | 4 |
| How many names are on The Wall because of Clinton's actions during
the Vietman War?
|
| 169.5 | not buying what he's selling | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Thu Jun 09 1994 18:22 | 16 |
| Judging by reactions abroad and in here, every veteran respects the
office regardless of who's in it. It also seems that the veterans that
support who's in it are in the minority.
He did okay over there, but there definitely were some awkward moments
for him. Then there is some good ole-fashioned propaganda too. For
instance, he told some naval crews that he always loved the military,
watched lots of John Wayne movies, and wanted to be in the military
too. Information released just a couple years ago quotes him as saying
that he loathed the military.
What really took the cake was the political officials knocking U.S. flags
over at the graves, so the media could film him setting them back up -
was confirmed by one of our own U.S. Senators.
Mike
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| 169.6 | Partisan politicas and media gone wild - you fall for it every time... | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Thu Jun 09 1994 18:32 | 9 |
| | too. Information released just a couple years ago quotes him as saying
| that he loathed the military.
| What really took the cake was the political officials knocking U.S. flags
| over at the graves, so the media could film him setting them back up -
| was confirmed by one of our own U.S. Senators.
All HUGE things. And all things that NO president has ever done before.
Especially that great 'merican George Busch.
|
| 169.7 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Fri Jun 10 1994 11:35 | 12 |
| Re.
> How many names are on The Wall because of Clinton's actions during
> the Vietman War?
If you're looking to blame someone for prolonging the war, I suggest
you might try looking at who was in the Oval office at that time rather
than its present occupant. According to the new Haldeman Diaries,
Henry Kissinger advised Nixon to hold off on the peace settlement,
which was eventually signed in '73, because of the '72 election.
Ken
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| 169.8 | | SALEM::DODA | Workin' on mysteries without any clues | Fri Jun 10 1994 11:36 | 6 |
| Al least Bush had the decency to make his visit to the Vietnam
memorial a private one.
Pity the missed photo-op eh?
daryll
|
| 169.9 | | SALEM::DODA | Workin' on mysteries without any clues | Fri Jun 10 1994 11:40 | 6 |
| Re: .7
Of course, you could look at who sent them there in the first
place. Three hints, red, neck, incompetent.
daryll
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| 169.10 | | HANNAH::ASHE | I'm digging your scene | Fri Jun 10 1994 11:47 | 2 |
| Gee Mac must really be gone...
|
| 169.11 | | CAMONE::WAY | The last full measure of devotion | Fri Jun 10 1994 12:10 | 11 |
| >
> Gee Mac must really be gone...
>
Well, I just figure if I let these guys cluster up just a little bit
more, I can take them all out without wasting a lot of ammo.....
;^)
|
| 169.12 | I guess you blame JFK! | OLD1S::SYSTEM | | Fri Jun 10 1994 15:09 | 4 |
|
RE .9
Why would you call Eisenhower a redneck incompetent?
|
| 169.13 | | PTOVAX::JACOB | | Fri Jun 10 1994 16:50 | 26 |
|
>>Well, I just figure if I let these guys cluster up just a little bit
>>more, I can take them all out without wasting a lot of ammo.....
Reminds me of a joke. (imagine that).
This guy buys a new 30.06 rifle and a scope to go on it. His next door
neighbor is an expert with guns, and tells him to bring the gun over
and he'll install the scope and sight it in. He takes the gun over,
and while sighting the gun, the neighbor looks over towards the new gun
owner's house, and says, "Oooh Bill, bad news. Your wife and the
milkman are in your living room kissing and hugging, and now he's
taking your wife's blouse off."
Anguished, Bill hands his friend 2 bullets and says, "Do me a favor,
shoot my wife in the head with the first bullet, and shoot the milkman
in the p_nis with the other bullet."
The friend aims the gun and says, "Good news Bill, I only need one
bullet!!!"
JaKe
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| 169.14 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Fri Jun 10 1994 16:51 | 4 |
| Mac really is gone.
The Crazy Met
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| 169.15 | but it was just as good this time too.... | CNTROL::CHILDS | Temptation is a Gun | Fri Jun 10 1994 16:55 | 9 |
|
yup Mac's last day was last friday. Says he's going to get back in to
chemistry and come back and blow up all the guys who gave him trouble...
I told him it would cost him too much money......
;^)
I like the joke Jake but I think you told it before ;^)
|
| 169.16 | | SALEM::DODA | Workin' on mysteries without any clues | Fri Jun 10 1994 16:56 | 9 |
|
RE .9
>Why would you call Eisenhower a redneck incompetent?
How many did Eisenhower send over? How many did LBJ?
daryll
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| 169.17 | | CAMONE::WAY | The last full measure of devotion | Fri Jun 10 1994 16:59 | 6 |
| > This guy buys a new 30.06 rifle and a scope to go on it.
REAL men use iron sights.....
;^)
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| 169.18 | | CAPNET::LEFEBVRE | PCBU Asia/Pacific Marketing | Fri Jun 10 1994 17:00 | 3 |
| Rat on, Saw!
Mark.
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| 169.19 | | GENRAL::WADE | FearTheGovernmentWhoFearsYourGuns | Fri Jun 10 1994 17:23 | 4 |
|
Mac's a goner? No goodbye note? No nuttin?
Claybone
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| 169.20 | (8^)* | PTOVAX::JACOB | | Fri Jun 10 1994 17:41 | 6 |
| Well, if he's just used the damned iron sight, he woulda been in the
house and the milkman never woulda stopped by, ya know????
Woulda saved hisself having to clean up all that blood that was spilt.
JaKe
|
| 169.21 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Fri Jun 10 1994 17:48 | 8 |
| re: a few back
yeah Mac sent out mail about 3 weeks ago that he was probably gone and
then last week to confirm.
The Crazy Met
|
| 169.22 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | TCM - World's Greatest Sandbagger | Fri Jun 10 1994 17:50 | 11 |
|
Here's a topic commemorating a day when a lot of brave young
man risked their lives and some lost their lives fighting for
what they knew was right. We have a total of four replies that
have anything to do with the topic and the rest are our usual
rightwing buddies beating us about the face and neck with their
views (which is only slightly worse than when our leftwing buddies
do it) and we have someone who obviously has a dog-eared copy
of "Truly Tasteless Jokes". President Clinton being at Normandy
is no more a sacriledge than some of the things being posted
in here in this topic.
|
| 169.23 | | PTOVAX::JACOB | | Fri Jun 10 1994 17:55 | 15 |
|
>> do it) and we have someone who obviously has a dog-eared copy
>> of "Truly Tasteless Jokes". President Clinton being at Normandy
NOT!! Never even picked up a copy of it.
Like my putting that joke in here totally defiled all of those who gave
their lives so the world could live on FREE. Guess I better call the
Westinghouse Bridge up the road from the office and reserve a jump time
for tonight cause now I'm a national disgrace, huh??
Oooday Eeeemay
JaKe
|
| 169.24 | | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Fri Jun 10 1994 17:56 | 2 |
| Jake was in the Air Force so he earned the right to be tasteless in
this topic.
|
| 169.25 | | PTOVAX::JACOB | | Fri Jun 10 1994 17:58 | 10 |
| >>Jake was in the Air Force so he earned the right to be tasteless in
>>this topic.
Minor nit, Air FArce
^
Thank you
JaKe
|
| 169.26 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Fri Jun 10 1994 17:59 | 5 |
| I tell 'ya it is getting to be real easy to get Tommy going. Add
JaKester to the list. Good show guy.
The Crazy Met
|
| 169.27 | | OLD1S::SYSTEM | | Fri Jun 10 1994 18:59 | 10 |
|
RE .16
How do you figure LBJ to be incompetent. More legislation was passed during
his administration than any other President in the countries history. To me that
says the man got the job done. He inherits a war he can't win or back out of.
What would you have done? Maybe we should have elected Barry Goldwater and gone
over an Nuck'm till the glowed!!
Cadzilla2
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| 169.28 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Fri Jun 10 1994 20:17 | 6 |
| yabbut, Kennedy really started sendinf folks over. LBJ's 1964 campaign
was partially based on the promise not to escalate in Vietnam and
played off fears of what Goldwater would do.
The Crazy Met
|
| 169.29 | | SALEM::DODA | Workin' on mysteries without any clues | Sun Jun 12 1994 23:28 | 19 |
| Yeah, who could forget all that legislation that Lydon got passed
during his admin. Tell you what, pick up a history book and see
who proposed those wonderful bills and when. See how many of them
were written prior to say, November 1961.
The death of JFK as well as Johnson knack for bribery combined
to push through most of the legislation that, when submitted by
Kennedy, looked doa.
30 years later, Johnson's "War on Poverty" could well be the
worst piece of legisation ever written, if indeed, he had any
part in writing it to begin with.
Poor Lyndon got a war that he didn't start, so what else was he
to do? I would think that sending another few 100,000 boys over
would seem to be the worst and last option to all but the simple
minded. In that sense, I guess you're right, Lyndon sure was in
a bad spot.
daryll
|