Conference hbahba::cam_sports

    "That's okay, I flunked that class.  Actually, they gave me straight
    A's.  All I had to do was lead the SEC in rebounding." -
    
    Charles Barkley on his show last night after the co-host pointed out a
    mispronounciation to him.

    LSU travels to Lexington tonight to play UK.  Game time - 9:30 on ESPN. 
    Pitino stated last night on his talk show that this week was the first
    time he's been excited about the 'Cats all year.  In another note I
    mentioned some of the major weaknesses of UK - poor half court offense,
    etc.  According to Pitino, UK is playing much better offensively these
    days.  Setting screens, passing the ball more, etc.  
    
    Gimel Martinez is playing great ball the last couple games.  Rodney
    Dent scored 17 points in the 108-82 laugher over South Carolina last
    Saturday.
    
    It'll be interesting to see how improved UK is offensively tonight
    against LSU.
    
    Bob "WILDCAT" Roper

    I almost went to this fiasco.  Between clicking the Bulls verses the
    Mavs and this game, I had no trouble sleeping last night.

    UK rolled LSU big time.  Rhodes, Riddick, Ford, Prickett (sp?), etc,
    are showing why Kentucky was voted so highly (highest I think) for
    their recruiting last year.  They will be really tough for the next 
    few years.

    Vitale claimed there was no doubt Mashburn was gone after this year.

    If he stuck around for next year, the team would be incredible...

    Go-Kats!

    The selection of a new coach at South Carolina should be interesting
    for this Dean Disciple.  With the firing of their latest basketball
    coach amidst NCAA rules violations (found internally) there's a Vacancy
    for a hoops coach, and it's possible another Dean pupil could get the
    job.
    
    Despite the stupid rumors that BobbyCremins is their man (maybe so, but
    there's absolutely ZERO chance of that happening) the reality is that
    the South Carolina AD will probably hire a black coach.  George
    Raveling's name has been mentioned along with a couple_other high
    profile's, but everybody knows South Carolina aims higher than what's
    realistic.  Leave USC for South Carolina?  Gimme a break.
    
    Which leads us to the name of Jimmy Black.  Black was an assistant at
    South Carolina under George Felton (a man who was, IMO, unjustly fired,
    but that's another story).  He's also a Dean Disciple.  He's also
    available, assuming he'd be interested in the job.  (Not a given, with
    the way the Gamecocks turn over their personnel.)  I personally think
    he'd be a great fit and hope he's considered.
    
    Another possibility is Phil Ford, currently assisting Dean and doing a
    bang-up job on the recruiting trail.  I personally hope they don't go
    after Phil, cause the last time UNC lost an assistant the recruiting
    void that was left led to a significant talent drop-off.  Ultimately
    though, it'll only be a matter of time until Ford commands a job at the
    Division 1 level, assuming that's what he wants.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

What's this? A_error in KnorrLogic?

>    ... Leave USC for South Carolina?  Gimme a break.

Whattabout the current Gamecock AD who just left Southern Cal?

The problem with hiring Raveling is not the faux fack the Knorr missed
but with the fact that he has to be one of the most overrated coaches in
college hoops. What's thig guy ever done? Lately?

I like the idea of Jimmy Black and hope he has a chance to at least
interview. I don't see Phil Ford as a head coach. He looks to be in his
perfect job, under the continuing watch of Dean. 

TTom

Please.. not George Raveling... he seems to be following the Larry Brown
coaching roadshow technique.

The local paper interviewed Mike Jarvis (former coach of Pat Ewing at
Cambridge R&L, former coach of Northeasten, current coach at George 
Washington) and named him as one of the contenders for the job.

Since I live in Columbia, I get to see the ineptitude of USC on a daily
basis.   They also suffer greatly from Clemson envy.   I have yet to see
the athletic department do anything that resembled "big-time" athletics.
Don't  be surprised if they bring in someone from Coastal Carolina or
College of Charleston, especially if he's white.   I'm doubtful that 
South Carolina is ready to accept a black head coach.    

In fact, there'll probably be two openings in the state.  I can't see how
Cliff Ellis will make it to next year with his Clemson squad.   

Personally, I'd like to see Jarvis here at USC.   

    re: factual errors
    
    I've made no factual errors.  [As usual. :^)]  I was merely stating how
    I find it extremely unlikely that a *coach* (not_a AD, mind you) would
    leave USC to come to Columbia, SC to coach at a school long-renowned
    for their administrative ineptitude.  (BTW, the ineptitude began the
    day they left the ACC and continued to this day ...)
    
    
    re: Ross
    
    So, any talk of Jimmy Black getting an interview?  Assuming Jarvis is
    there man, don't assume he'll accept the job.  At the least I'd insist
    on a very long guaranteed contract.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    

Mike Jarvis is a great coach, but a small nit: he never coached at N'eastern, 
it was BU.  I'll be kinda surprised if he goes to Columbia, he seems to be 
attracted to big city schools.
 

�  there man, don't assume he'll accept the job.  At the least I'd insist

Call the there/their police, someone.

=Bob= as the 'Cadet 

    Big game tomorrow for UK.  Number 11 Vanderbilt strolls into town. 
    Vandy pasted the Cat's in Vandy January 13 by a 101-86 score.  Billy
    McCaffrey scored 22 points and handed out a school-record 14 assists in
    that game.  Look for this one to be a real barn burner!  Both Vandy and
    UK are tied for the Easten Division lead with one loss.
    
    I look for UK to win in the friendly confines of Rupp, but I'm not
    willing to stick my neck out and say by how much!!
    
    I remain, (Sorry Kev!)
    
    Still not understanding how IU is ranked above UK.
    
    - WILDCAT

    UK smokes Vandy....
    
    REK

    UK verses Arkansas Weds night.
    
    Time to anti-up and act like men.
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    Big game tonight at Arkansas.  Could be trouble physically for the
    Cat's.  Starter Rodrick Rhodes may miss tonights game with the flu. 
    Starters Travis Ford, and Dale Brown have also been rather sickly this
    week.  Time will tell...
    
    HUGE win Saturday over 11th ranked Vandy.  Vandy beat UK 101-86 in the
    first meeting.  UK came back to rout Vandy 82-67 this time around.  The
    difference in this one was UK's defence.  Kentucky held Vandy (SEC's
    best FG%) to only 32% from the field.  They also held McCaffrey in
    check.  Mashburn led the way with I believe 22 points.  However, Travis
    Ford was the offensive star, collecting 14 points while dishing out a
    career high 9 assists.
    
     - Bob

    Better not be looking ahaid to Notre Dame, there 'CAT!!
    
    MikeL
    

    re .13
    
    Could never look past the IRISH!  Particulary in South Bend.  IMO the
    UK-ND rivalry lost a bit of oomph when Digger left. :-(
    
    I can only hope UK wins in South Bend Saturday.  If not, I may be
    forced to change my P-Name from football to basketball!!
    
    - Bob

    Kentucky falls to Arkansas last night, 101-94.  Mid-way through the
    second half, the Razorbacks built a 15 point lead.  UK upped its
    defensive pressure and made the game close the last 5 minutes. 
    Arkansas is certainly a surprise this year.  I never would've thought
    they would be this good after losing Todd Day, Oliver, etc.  
    
    UK wasn't playing at 100% because of sickness, but those are the
    breaks.  In fact, the fact that Rhodes didn't play much may have been a
    blessing in disguise.  Freshman Jared Prickett, whom Pitino has raved
    about all year, came in and had approximately 15 points and 11 boards. 
    This guy is really a hard worker.  With play like that, he may replace
    Rhodes who's been a bit inconsistent of late.
    
    Travis Ford had a great game scoring I believe 21 points.  Ford hit 5-7
    three point FG's in the 1st half.
    
    Arkansas's pressure gave UK some trouble in the 2nd half.  UK brought
    alot of problems on itself though with some real sloppy passes inside.
    
    - Bob

    It's official, I am the Kiss-o-Death fer the Kats...

    I did get a call into the "Chris Collinsworth Sport Talk" last night,
    and was gonna axe him about the "Sick-Kats", but decided to ask a 
    BEARS question instead.
    
    (He likes Wanny, BTW)

    Shoulda axed him if he's gonna do ND games next fall.
    He sure took a lotta flack from some tunnel-visioned ND feigns ( not
    moi of course).  Even tho I disagreed with some_a_ his analysis,
    I think he brings some objectivity on occasion. If ah want out and
    out bias, I'll listen to Paul Hornung.
    
    MikeL
    
    PS GO ND, skin dem Cats on Saturday!
    

    re: .17
    
    >> PS GO ND, skin dem Cats on Saturday!
    
    Hey Mike!  Watch that kind of talk in the SEC topic!! :-)
    
    Looking forward to watching the game tomorrow.
    
    re: .16
    
    So Chip, got to talk to Mr. C last night huh?  I listened for a little
    bit and got sick!  Chris was really jumping all over UK's case last
    night.  He made the comment that UK had only 2 guys (Mashburn and
    Ford), and if they went south, the whole team did.  Well, tell me, what
    would happen to IU if Cheney and Henderson both had poor games?  What
    about Duke with Hurley and Grant Hill.  Cincinnati with Van Exel and
    Blount.  Kansas, Jordan and Walters. 
    
    Point is, take most any team in the country and if 2 of their stars
    have off nights than they'll likely lose!  Real dumb analysis Mr.
    Collingsworth!  And to think his Dad played at UK!!!  And Chris married
    a UK chearleader to boot!
    
    GO BIG BLUE,
    
    WILDCAT
    

    Was chating wif my tennis partner after another 'W' today (I'm riding a
    13 match win streak; Dean would be pleased) and she (mixed doubles,
    dontcha know) 'splains to me she's from Kaintucky.  Naturally we started
    talking hoops; naturally I brought up the subject of the Duke > 'Cats
    "Game of the Century" in last years NCAA's regional finals.
    
    Bad move on my part.  Seems her dad, a lifetime Kaintucky fan, had "a
    Big One" while watching the game.  Fortunately it wasn't "The" Big One;
    he survived after being rushed to the hospital via ambulance.
    
    Until the BigEast starts coming up with stories like this, I cain never
    call it one of the Top Conferences in the USA.  :^|
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    Yabbut,
    
    Chris, doncha know I hate to brag about me "Big One"!
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    "selectively" short (occasionally) !!!
    Kev
    

    Let's see if they Kain hang on to #1 fer awhile!!!!
    
    Go Kats.
    
    Chip_KOD_Bach

    I tell ya what, I have amazing Kiss_Of_Death powers with the Kats of
    Caintucky.
    
    Pitino better pay me good $$$ not to post anymore jinx notes for the
    boys_in_blue...
    
    From the "worst kept secrets dept", Jamal (Monster)Mashburn announced
    he will go pro nexted year.

    Folks, I tell ya, UK is on the type of roll currently that may bring a
    6th NCAA banner to Rupp Arena.
    
    Last night's 1st half was the best I've ever seen UK play in a half. 
    And remember, this is against a 5 seed, not 15 or 16!  That was simply
    the most dominating exhibition of three point shooting that I've seen. 
    At halftime, UK was 13 of 15 from three point land.  There's no team in
    the country that can withstand that.  Halftime score was UK 60 - Wake
    26!
    
    When Mashburn is on fire like he was (23 in 1st half), that really
    opens things up for the point man, Travis Ford.  Ford finished with a
    game high 26 points on 10-11 FG shooting!
    
    FSU can hang it up if UK opens tomorrow's game with the kind of
    intensity they have shown of late.  They've been on a major roll since
    the start of the SEC tourney.  The whole thing has been keyed by the
    defensive pressure.  They have definetly turned it up a few notches.
    
    The Cats have been jumping on teams early, which makes it tough to come
    back.
    
    Here's hoping for a trip to New Orleans!
    
     - Bob WILDCAT Roper

�    the start of the SEC tourney.  The whole thing has been keyed by the
�    defensive pressure.  They have definetly turned it up a few notches.
  

UK seems to really be playing the D.  They are very quick, and are helping out
each other tremendously.  Looks like it could be a UNC/Kaintuck showdown...

    I refuse to comment on this issue until June.  I've learned my lesson.
    
    ;-)
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    Well, the Kaints went down to Misch-gag-again in the final four.  It
    was heartbreaking to watch them flat-tire their way through the entire
    game, and poop-out in OT.  They were really off their game.  Noone
    wanted to shoot, and the stupid fouls cost them.

    At least I watched it in the heart of Lexington, in Rex Chapmans club
    called "Threes", so I was (for the first half) in the heart of catdome.

    Mashburns 4th foul was ridiculous, running down court with the guard
    and bumping him outta bounds.  His final foul (and the nail in the
    Kaints coffin) was a terrible call.  Luckily the refs stunk both ways
    and called a bad one againt Misch, too.

    Great year, coulda woulda shoulda, good luck to the Mash in the pros,
    hope to see the Cats back in two years...

    Chip_GSH_Bach

    Well, finally rested up enough to enter a note!  I was fortunate enough
    to get the Final 4 tickets advertised in the ACC topic a week ago
    Monday.  What a trip!  I thought I'd seen most everything after being
    in NYC a few years ago.  Bourbon street can hold its own with most any
    party town in the country!  What a wild place.
    
    Saw bunches of celebrities, etc.  One neat thing was that the National
    Association of Basketball Coaches (NABC) annually holds its meeting
    during the Final Four.  I went over to their motel one afternoon and
    saw Lute Olsen, PJ Carlessimo, Todd Bozeman (Cal's new coach), Bob
    Huggins, Pete Gillen and one of Duke's finest, Grant Hill.  I had an
    opportunity to talk with Pete Gillen, and he's one classy guy.
    
    UK-UM and UM-UNC were both extremely exciting games, with the slight
    edge going to the Semi-Final UK_UM game IMO.  I was pretty upset after
    the UK loss, but felt much better after learning what happened to Dale
    Brown the next day.  We never knew at the arena that Brown had
    suffered a separated shoulder with 6 minutes to go in regulation.  That
    was a huge loss for UK.  All in all, they played great considering they
    were without three starters during the OT.  
    
     - Bob Roper

    re .27
    
    Chip, you may not have to wait a couple of years to see a repeat Final
    4 appearance for the Cats. Next year they have a couple of additions
    that will defintely help.
    
    They have two recruits in the fold so far:
    
    	Jeff Shepard - 6'5 2-Guard - Player of Year in Georgia - Avg. 27.5 
        ppg. - According to Pitino, Shepard has the leaping ability of Rex
        Chapman, and the shooting ability of Kyle Macy!  Now if he only   
        lives up to half those expectations, he will be fine!
    
        Anthony Epps - 6'2 1-Guard - Player of Year in Kentucky - UK
        entered the race for this kid late, but still landed him.  He will
        be a walk-on his first year, and receive a scholarship for the 
        remaining three years.  Hopefully, he will be an adequate
        replacement for Travis Ford after next season.
    
    	Walter McCarty - 6'9 - Center/Forward - Prop 48 this season.  Super
        inside player out of Evansville, IN.  Pitino is extremely high on
     	Walter.  He said he was the most talented of all of this years
    	freshman!  Should eventually grow into Mashburn's roll. 
    	Apparently a good outside shooter also.
    
    	The real key could lie with Charles O'Bannon's decision.  O'Bannon
    	has narrowed his choices to UK-UCLA.  O'Bannon is a 6-7
    	Forward/Guard.  O'Bannon was a second team All-USA TODAY selection.
    
    	Pitino mentioned on his talk show this week that he is also looking
    	at a big man (probably JUCO) for next year.  Need someone to
    	replace the resident stiff Rodney Dent!
    
    	I look for big things out of UK next year.  Alot will also depend
    	Rodrick Rhodes attitude.  I wouldn't be shocked if he transfers to
    	Seton Hall this summer.  You heard it here first!
    
     - Bob Roper

    O'Bannon is not what Kentucky needs.  They need a center who can give 
    Pitino 22-24 minutes of head-banging defense and rebounding.  He
    seems to have enough shooters and wingmen, and if Epps can handle
    the point, center would be their only weakness.
    
    NAZZ

    re .30
    
    I agree with you NAZZ on the need of a big man in the middle.  Rodney
    Dent was suppoosed to be the answer this year, but didn't quite develop
    the way the UK staff expected.  Pitino stated last week that he has a
    JUCO possibility for center that he's looking at for next year.
    
    O'Bannon would be a huge catch though.  You can't get enough of the 6-7
    slashers, ala Grant Hill, etc.  UCLA is in the lead for him, but who
    know's?  He should make his decision this week or next.
    
     - Bob Roper

    Charles O'Bannon inked with UCLA yesterday.  O'Bannon apparently wanted
    to attend UK and play under Pitino, but family pressure to stay close
    to home was too great to overcome. 
    
    Bob Roper

    re: .32
    
    Wow, imagine the pay cut O'Bannon'll take going to UCLA.  Nobody but
    nobody shells out the bucks like the Kaintucks, and dats a fact.  
    
    My eyes were opened to the way the Cats do business when a buddy of
    mine went to school there and reported back on his findings.  (Sadly he
    was fully indoctrinated into the ways of the 2nd winningest program but
    1st most corrupt in college hoops and became a fan, but that only adds
    more credibility to his scoop.)
    
    Seems the thoroughbred Kentucky hoopsters were given high-paying
    summer jobs to operate the sprinkler systems for some fat 'Cat alums,
    'sept the sprinklers were of the "automatic" variety.  Not bad work,
    when ya cain get it.
    
    :^(
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I think your friend got confused when he saw that all-time hoops
    star Robbie Benson's job in the classic basketball movie "One on One".
    Best thing about that movie, aside from Melanie Griffith's cameo, was
    the awesome Annette O'Toole!!!!!!!!
    
    NAZZ

    Nope Nazz, my friends info pre-dates Robbie Benson's classic.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Yabbut,
    Does it pre-date the early 70's USC Trojans gittin' paid to shut off
    lights in the gym?
    
    MikeL
    

>    Yabbut,
>    Does it pre-date the early 70's USC Trojans gittin' paid to shut off
>    lights in the gym?
    
Annette O'Toole is FINE stuff.   I thought Nick Nolte was nuts for treating
her so bad in 48 Hours...


'Saw    

>               -< Yo 'Saw, re-play that last synapse and re-do! >-

I just forgot to erase the previous note, instead of highlighting
it.

But, if I didn't do things like that once in a while, you folks would
think I was turnin' NORMAL on ya....


'Saw




    

> But, if I didn't do things like that once in a while, you folks would
> think I was turnin' NORMAL on ya....

not cs cahnce.

The Crazy Met

    I just cain't beee-lieve a tarheals fan has the cajones to remark about
    how 'dose players get treated under da table...

    The Atlanta Hawks offered Rick Pitino their head coaching job Monday. 
    Reportedly, the offer was for 2,000,000/year.  Rick told them that he
    was very happy at Kentucky, and had no intentions of leaving at this
    time.
    
    I really believe Rick wants to win an NCAA title before he goes back to
    the pro game.  It's no secret that Pitino loves the pace and excitement
    of the pro game.  However, he's got it made in Lexington, and now has
    the talent to compete for a Final 4 slot annually.
    
     - Bob

    Now Rope,
    Ya best be prepared for the obligatory incoming regarding ol'
    Kaintuck!
    
    MikeL
    

    Pitino couldn't afford the pay cut to go to the Hawks.
    
    NAZZ

    re .43
    
    >> Now Rope,
    >> Ya best be prepared for the obligatory incoming regarding ol'
    >> Kaintuck!
    
    >> MikeL
    
    I hear ya Mike!  I'm still pondering my response to ACC Chris'
    slanderous reply a few notes earlier!
    
    BTW, Pitino's current income is estimated at greater than
    $1,000,000/year.  This includes University salary, television, radio,
    endorsements, shoe contracts, watering the football field, etc.
    
     - Bob
    
    

    Well, it's getting to be that time of year again!  Just read in the
    paper where Pitino has inked a blue chipper out of Miami.  6'5
    point-guard Alan Edwards.  Brother of NBAer Doug Edwards.  
    
    More on UK's recruiting later.  Suffice to say UK should be set up for
    visits to the Final 4 for a while now.
    
    Go Big Blue,
    
    Bob

    Edwards is good, not great.  Blue-Chipper?!  Maybe, but this is the
    kindof signing that'll keep you in the Top20, not get you to the
    Final4.
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    BTW Bob, just how many games to the Kaintucks trail UNC in the All-Time
    'W' contest, anyhow?!
    
    Haw haw!!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re .48
    
    Ha!  Seems as though a certain UNC fan keeps bringing up the all-time
    wins.  BTW, we both know who the best team was last season!
    
    UK fans don't concern themselves with wins and such.  We are most
    concerned with whether our program is one of high integrity, honest, and
    faithful to the academic development of the scholar-athlete.
    
    - Bob

Bob,

One question about the Kaintuck program: are there a lot of fans running
around pretending that they went the Lexington when they dint?

Just curious.

TTom

    
    > UK fans don't concern themselves with wins and such.  We are most
    > concerned with whether our program is one of high integrity, honest, and
    > faithful to the academic development of the scholar-athlete.
    
    You mean UK fans have expunged 99% of the program's history from the 
    books?
    
    glenn
    

    Bob I hate to throw facts your way, but after we reeled in the
    Kaintucks in the All-Time W's category the 'Cats started scurrying
    through the record books and finding wins!  They added around 6 or so,
    which meant it didn't take us long to pass you again.
    
    Haw haw!!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

                      <<< Note 84.51 by NAC::G_WAUGAMAN >>>
     -< Obliterating all references to Rupp, like Russia with Stalin ;-) >-

 >>   You mean UK fans have expunged 99% of the program's history from the 
 >>   books?
    
    Expunged 99% of the program's history!  Certainly not.  We've just
    decided to strike out or erase 99% of it!!!
    
    :-),
    
    Bob
    
    P.S. - Still chuckling over the title of your note glenn
    
    P.S.S. - Anyone check out Charlie Rose last night.  One of his guests
    was Dean Smith.  It was a good interview, all things considering!
    
    
    
    

    re: Edwards
    
    One teeny weeny item Bob neglected to mention is that Edwards is still
    a non-qualifier!  "Officials" are optimistic he passed the SAT the
    last time he took it, which is a Kaintucky way of saying somebody
    probably took the test for him.
    
    Haw!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Just picked up my first B-Ball mag last night.  Street and Smith's had
    UK ranked number 7.  Saw also where Sporting News I believe, had them
    number 2.
    
    Edwards was a fourth team selection by Street and Smith's.  Sporting
    News listed him as number 41 in the nation.  In any event, he has the
    one attribute you can't teach - SIZE.  A 6'5 PG!  You can bet one
    thing.  Pitino will get the maximum out of him.
    
    UK has a difficult non-conference schedule.  The biggies this year are:
    
    	Louisville - Home
    	Indiana - (Always tough - No matter how depleted IU may be)
    	UMASS - Road
    	Syracuse - Road
    
    Louisville is December 1 and IU is December 4.  Two highly emotional
    games back to back.  I'm pretty sure I'll have tickets to the IU game.
    
    GO BIG BLUE,
    
    Bob

    re: .55
    
    See .54.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    No problem w/ him passing the next test.  I hear through the grape-vine
    that he's hired an outside tutorial firm to give him guidance.  The
    firm is called EMSI (Eric Manuel SAT Incorporated).
    
    - Rope

    Small nit - the UMass game is at a neutral site, the Meadowlands,
    not an away game.
    
    NAZZ

    Yo ACC, I thought it was UNC that dipped back into time and pulled
    out some stats against a early game against some YWCA or sumpthin
    like that...
    
    Went to midnight madness.  Great time.
    
    I will miss the Monster_Mash this year...
    
    Go_Kats!
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    Chip, what time did you have to get in line in order to get into
    Midnight Madness?  My wife and I went back in 1987 when Rex Chapman was
    a Freshman.  We got in line at about 5:00 that afternoon.  Doors didn't
    open until 9:00 and we were still about number 300 in line!
    
    Countdown has begun.  Three weeks until the big game against
    Louisville, December 1.  Both UK and the 'Ville should be in the
    pre-season top 5.  I look for UK to win the game.  Crum just doesn't
    seem to get it.  The UCLA high-post is just a bit dated Denny.
    
    UK opens the Season Saturday November 27 against some no-name.  After
    the Louisville game the 1st, they will meet arch-nemesis Indiana in
    Freedom Hall on Saturday the 4th.  That'll be a huge week!
    
    BTW, the Louisville game will be played in Rupp this year.
    
     - Bob

    My brudder in law has a pal at Rupp.  We had to stand, but got in 1/2
    hour before.  Pretty cool, a little boring this year.
    
    I hated that "Pitino goes to NYC" thing they did...
    
    At U.K. the lines for bassit ball is usually long.
    
    I was there for the '78 pep rally after the NCAA championships and was
    the first person not to be allowed in.  (My picture and that of my
    buddies made a center photo in Sports Illustrated, March 16th, 1978
    issues, cover "A word from the Bird" wif Fidrych)
    
    (Or was that '79?)
    
    We had a soccer game and got there late.  (If anyones saves SI's, we
    are the guys in the red/white soccer uniforms, and our goalie in gold)
    
    Now, getting a picture in SI, *that* was cool.  hehehehhehe heheheheh
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach
    

    UK signed 6'8 Scott Padgett out of Lousville yesterday.  Scott is a top
    100 player who shoots well from long-range.  Sounds like he will fit in
    well with Pitino's system.
    
    The signing of Alan Edwards (6'5 PG out of Miami) is on hold until he
    passes his entrance exams.
    
    UK is apparently at the top of Antoine Walkers list.  Walker is about
    6'9 out of Chicago.  Again, Walker needs to pass the entrance exams,
    and will probably wait until the spring to sign.  Walker is according
    to most experts, one of the top big men in the country.
    
     - Bob

    Well, UK's opener is 8 days away against highly regarded Louisville. 
    Here's a look at last season's *best* team.
    
    GUARDS:
    
    Travis Ford      - 1G             - 5'9 Sr.
    Anthony Epps     - 1G             - 6'2 Fr.
    Tony Delk        - 2G             - 6'1 So.
    Jeff Brassow     - 2G             - 6'5 Sr.
    Jeff Sheppard    - swing          - 6'4 Fr.    
    Chris Harrison   - swing          - 6'1 Jr.
    
    FORWARDS:
    
    Rodrick Rhodes   - SF/2G          - 6'7 So.
    Jared Prickett   - PF             - 6'9 So.
    Walter McCarty   - PF             - 6'9 So.          
    
    CENTERS:
    
    Rodney Dent      -                - 6'11 Sr.
    Gimel Martinez   - Center/Forward - 6'8  Sr.
    Andre Riddick    -                - 6'9  Jr.
    
    This UK team is deep and talented.  It's tough to tell who has the
    better depth up front, North Carolina or Kentucky.  Even with the loss
    of All-World Mashburn and defensive ace Dale Brown, UK has a chance to
    better last seasons mark.  Alot will depend on the two sophomore
    forwards, Rhodes and Prickett.  With the right attitude, Rhodes has a
    chance to be UK's next All-American.
    
    Another key will be how well Delk handles the 2-guard spot.  Delk was a
    scoring machine out of Tennesee.  He had an up and down freshman
    campaign as most do.  Travis Ford has proven he's one of the nations
    top point guards.  Ford shot 52% from 3-point land last season!
    
    Here's my guess at this season's opening starting lineup.
    
    Point Guard    - Travis Ford
    Shooting Guard - Tony Delk
    Power Forward  - Gimel Martinez
    Small Forward  - Rodrick Rhodes
    Center         - Rodney Dent
    
    GO BIG BLUE - Rope
    

    Cat's open the season this Saturday 3:45 CBS against highly regarded
    Louisville.  Game will be at Rupp.  Here's my guess as to how the teams
    may line up.
    
    Forward - UK Jared Prickett 6'9 So  ---------> UL Jason Osborne 6'8 Fr
    Forward - UK Rodrick Rhodes 6'7 So  ---------> UL Dwayne Morton 6'6 Sr
    
    Prickett has a slight edge over the Super Prep Osborne if only because
    of experience.
    
    Rhodes has the most talent on UK's team, but is still in-consistent. 
    I'd have to give the edge to Morton here.
    
    Center -  UK Rodney Dent    6'11 Sr ---------> UL Cliff Rozier  6'9 Jr
    
    I'd have to give Rozier the individual matchup here, but UK wins this
    position battle with depth.  Louisville can't counter Riddick and
    Martinez off the bench.
    
    1-Guard - UK Travis Ford    5'9  Sr ---------> UL DeJuan Wheat  6'0 Fr
    2-Guard - UK Tony Delk      6'1  So ---------> UL Greg Minor    6'6 Sr
    
    Ford wins the point mathcup hands down.  I can't see a frosh point
    guard keeping Travis in check.
    
    You'd have to give Minor the edge at 2 guard.  Again, experience wins
    out here.  Delk will blossom into a fine 2-guard, but could have his
    troubles with Minor.
    
    Just looking at the starters, UL appears to have the slight edge
    winning three position battles to UK's two.  However, UK has a vastly
    superior bench, and that's where the game will be won.  Add to that the
    fact that UK has beaten UL like a drum lately and it looks like an
    opening day victory for the #2 ranked Wildcats.  I'll pick UK by 9 over
    the 'Ville.  Time to switch from the out-dated UCLA high-post Denny!
    
    Go Big Blue! - Rope

    Morton has a bum knee and is OUT for possibly quite awhile. 
    (Supposedly 6 weeks, but it could be more.)
    
    Kentucky should win this game with ease.  They're playing at home,
    perhaps Louisville's most important player is out, and Rope has already
    told us the Cats are the most talented team in the USA.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re .65
    
    >> Morton has a bum knee and is OUT for possible quite awhile.
    >> (Supposedly 6 weeks, but it could be more.)
    
    Better check your sources there ACC.  Last I checked, Morton's gonna
    start this Saturday.  So much for being out for 6 weeks with a bum
    knee :-)  You're probably thinking of the broken hand he suffered about
    three weeks ago.  According to Crum, he WILL play this Saturday.  In
    fact, Morton played in an exhibition against Athletes in Action last
    Saturday.
    
    >> ... and Rope has already told us the Cats are the most talented team
    >> team in the USA.
    
    blah, blah, blah...  Please point myself and our other esteemed noters
    to the note in which I allegedly said the "Cats are the most talented
    team in the USA".  Have fun with that one Chris!  
    
    No way UK wins by 25 against UL this weekend.  They are way too young
    as witnessed by tonights loss against a strong Austrailian National
    Team.  The Aussies were led by former Seton Hall star, Andrew Gaze.  I
    believe they won by a score of 94-85 if memory serves.  Kentucky will
    lose some games in December and January this year.  As they gain
    experience and maturity I expect them to be a force come tourney time.
    
    I still expect a win against Louisville, but as I stated earlier, by
    only 7 points or so.
    
    Go Cats,
    
    ROPE

    re: Morton
    
    No, I am not thinking about his broken hand.  My "Basketball Times
    Insider" (which just arrived yesterday) has the following quote:
    
    "Later reports indicate Louisville senior forward Dwayne Morton might
    be out longer than just six weeks following knee surgery.  That would
    be a huge blow to the talented but body short Cardinals."
    
    The fact that he's already playing has me confused, but irregardless,
    the Wildcats should have no problem with Louisville playing at home. 
    (I would watch the game myself to make sure but our local CBS affiliate 
    has inexplicably pulled the plug on the game, causing a *huge* uproar
    on our FAN outlet.  (SPORTS talk radio, which I aim addicted to BTW.)
    This isn't the first time they've done this, either, and we're in a
    stinkin' SEC outlet! 
    
    Unreal ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re: Morton
    
    Hmmmm, not quite sure where "Basketball Times Insider" got their info
    on Morton.  I was listening to 84.0 WHAS out of Lousiville yesterday
    and Coach Crum confirmed that Morton would be playing Saturday.  I
    honestly have heard nothing about his knee.
    
    I can't believe CBS in Atlanta (Is that where you're located) isn't
    carrying the game.  If you like, I can send you a tape of the game.  If
    it's any good that is!
    
    I suspect you'll see alot of turnovers by UK this Saturday.  Probably
    UL too being both squads first game.  It'll be a great measuring stick
    as to just where they're at however.  Can't think of too many better
    opening games than UK - Louisville.
    
    Happy Thanksgiving to all in SPORTS!,
    
    Bob

The Australian Natinal Team beat UK lasted night, 90-something to
80-something. Erstwhile Seton Haller, Andrew Gaze, plays for them.

More info to follow. Probably time to bring out the ExcuseOMeter.

TTom

    No excuses here TTom.  Final was 94-85.  Gaze chipped in 27 points. 
    These Aussies are one tough bunch.  They've already beaten UCLA and
    several other good squads.  The UK game was the third night in a row
    that they played.  The thing that won the game for the Aussies was
    their experience.  Most of them are in their late twenties and up. 
    Next up for the Aussies is Duke.  I think that game is tonight,
    although not sure.
    
    The Aussies easily picked apart UK's press.  UK wasn't rotating
    properly in the press which allowed the Aussies to get the ball to the
    middle time and time again.  Once the ball comes to the middle of the
    press, you're history!  I hope UK improves their rotation and press
    assignments by this Saturday!
    
     - Rope

    
    
    >>The thing that won the game for the Aussies was their experience....
    
    Yabbut once again that ol' adage "Age and Deceit shall always overcome
    youthful enthusiasm"!!!!!
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    (yawn) thinking I'll take a nap and scheme s'more
    Kev
    

    Da'Kats whup Dinny_Crumble.  Go Kaintuck!
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    Nice opening game for Kentucky.  All in all, I was fairly pleased with
    their play.  Here's some random thoughts:
    
    	 - Once again, UK slaughters UL from three-point land.  They 
           out-scored the 'Card by 18 points.  When will Denny Crum'b'
           learn to defend the 3?
    
    	 - As I pointed out in an earlier note, UK's bench proved to
           be superior.  UL has a great starting 5.  Rozier was a 
           monster inside scoring 29.  However, UK got 21 points out of their
           center tandom of Dent and Riddick.
    
         - UL's outstanding frosh Jason Osbourne was non-existant.  I
           believe he managed 1 point for the game!  What's interesting
           is that Crum has him playing 2-guard.  When Jason matures
           it could be scary with UL having a 6'8 2-guard!
    
         - UL will struggle until they get some production from the point.
           Dejuan Wheat is a frosh, and it showed!
    
    	 - UK got excellent production from the guards with Ford scoring
           14 and Delk 19.
    
    	 
    I don't believe UK should be ranked number 1 at this time.  They're too
    young.  Perhaps in February, but not now.  I'd put them at number 7 or
    so.  No way they should be above Kansas, Duke, and UNC at this
    juncture.
    
    Next up, Tennessee Tech Wednesday.
    
    Indiana in Indianapolis this Saturday.
    
    - Rope

    RE: Indian in Indy this Sat!
    
    Its a good thing we don't have to play that powerhouse Butler!
    
    ;-)

   <<< Note 84.74 by CSOA1::BACH "They who know nothing, doubt nothing..." >>>
>>    Its a good thing we don't have to play that powerhouse Butler!
    
    Agreed!  I watched that game on TV.  Butler has a transfer from Purdue
    named Trice who made 6 or 7 three pointers.  Alan Henderson had 13
    points and 12 boards for IU.  Henderson looked a step slow to me.  He's
    wearing a heavy brace on his knee.  Bailey played a good game finishing
    with 21 points.  IU's definetly hurting in the middle w/ Todd Lindeman. 
    Pat Grahm, one of IU's best outside shooters, had a sub-par game.  I
    believe IU will take their lumps early on, as they have to depend too
    much on freshman, etc.
    
    BTW, IU beat Butler last December 1992, 90-48!  What a difference a
    year makes!
    
     - Rope
    

    Rope-
    
    I thought we usually play IU at a neutral site?  What has happened
    since last year?
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

   <<< Note 84.76 by CSOA1::BACH "They who know nothing, doubt nothing..." >>>

>>    Rope-
    
>>    I thought we usually play IU at a neutral site?  What has happened
>>    since last year?
    
>>    Chip_GSH_Bach
    
    Chip,
    
    Despite the fact that IU is 40 miles south, Indianapolis is considered
    a neutral site.  Pitino said on his coaches show last night that IU
    typically has 65% of the fans in Indy.  The way the series is set up
    currently, they play in Indy one year, and Louisville the next.  The
    tickets are divided evenly for the Louisville contest.  UK generally
    brings between 10 K - 15 K to Indy.
    
    This format has been going on since 1987 or 1988.  I really miss the
    home/away format they used to have.  I used to love the
    tension/excitement of the games when Knight would bring the Hoosiers to
    Rupp or UK traveled to Assembly Hall.  You just don't get the same
    electricity when the game is played in a dome.  Unfortunately, because
    of ticket revenue, it appears the current format will remain in place.
    
    - Rope
    

    Top ranked Kentucky leads Tennessee Tech at the half by a whopping 
    60 -31.  No letdown after the Louisville game here!  
    
    A couple of real positives in the first half.  
    	 - UK has predominately powered the ball inside rather than take
           the outside shot.
    
    	 - Rodrick Rhodes play - Pitino had a one-on-one meeting with
           earlier this week.  He told Rodrick that he needed to be a 
           scorer like Bernard King, Calbert Cheney and Donte Bright.
           In other words, slash to the basket, and use your speed and
           quickness to blow the opposition away.  Rhodes has been
           depending on the outside jumper way too much in the past.
           So far tonight, he has 14 halftime points, most all on moves
           to the basket.
    
    Heard that Carolina has only a 3-point lead over Hawaii at the half in
    the Dean Dome.  Huh?  UNC fans better hope that score changes
    dramatically by the end of the game.
    
    More later,
    
    Rope

    Uk finishes off Tennessee Tech by a final of 115 - 77.  Here's a look
    at individual scoring:
    
    	Rodrick Rhodes - 21
    	Rodney Dent    - 19
        Andre Riddick  - 16
        Tony Delk      - 13
        Travis Ford    -  8, 8 Assists, No Turnovers
    
    Games like this are invaluable in that they provide a chance further
    develop your bench and young talent.  UK's center tandom of Dent and
    Riddick contributed 35 points compared to 21 in the Louisville game. 
    It'll be interesting to see what kind of post play UK gets in the IU
    game this Saturday.
    
    UK took only 13 three point shots tonight.  That is a record low for a
    Pitino coached UK team.  UK made 6 three's.  As UK becomes more
    confident with the inside game, you'll gradually see fewer 3 point
    attempts.  It'll still be an effective part of their arsenal, but they
    won't live or die by the three.
    
    Next up, arch-rival Indiana in the Hoosier Dome.  Game will be
    Nationally televised at 3:45 Saturday on CBS.
    
    I look for this game to be a fairly tight contest.  Even when UK was on
    probation during Pitino's first two seasons, IU won by only 3 and 2
    points respectively.  Pitino's evened the score with Knight the last
    two seasons winning both games by 2 points.  For IU to stand a chance
    of pulling the upset, Henderson and Evans must have *huge* games
    inside.  They also have to neutralize Dent and Riddick with their
    center tandom of the 7'0 Lindeman and 6'11 Mandeville.  If IU can hang
    close inside, that will allow Bailey and company the luxury of
    dictating a half-court contest.  Kentucky wins a fast-paced game fairly
    easily IMO.
    
    I don't believe IU has the bench this year.  I'll take Kentucky by 11.
    
    GO BIG BLUE,
    
    Rope

    Let's be fair Chris,
    
    This should be Day I RopeWatch. After all, Sunday is technically
    a day off, n'est-ce-pas?
    
    MikeL
    

    No fair speakin' those furrin' languages in this here topic...
    

	While Bob was, I'm sure, both shocked and disappointed by
	the Mildcats humiliating defeat at the hands of the slow,
	inexperienced, non-athletic Hoosiers (definitely lacking
	in nuclear widebody studs), I must say in his defense that 
	he's been off work this week due to a family medical emergency.

	When he comes back, I'm sure he'll be in here instantly to
	both analyze the Small Blue's shortcomings, and to deal
	with the contention that the Jellies can't be considered
	legitimate contenders for a national championship until
	Rick Pitino makes one basic change in his coaching philosophy.

tom (who's getting HUNGRY, Bob)

    Thanks tom.  I'll cease and desist with my Rope day-watch, and
    offer best hopes for his family emergency.
    
    BTW, Indiana did to the Kaintucks what I knew Carolina would do to 'em
    if only the Cats had been able to avoid chocking against Michigan.
    Namely, break their press with relative ease and score numerous cheap 
    hoops.  The Mildcats might be able to overcome this achilles heel *if*
    they're shooting well, but catch 'em on a night when the J's aren't
    falling and they can be had.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    
    
    

    Back to work, finally!  My wife had to go to New Jersey to see her 93
    year old Grandmother who is very ill.  She left Thursday morning and
    just returned last night.  I was left HOME ALONE w/ my 3-year old
    daughter.  All in all, I did okay.  She demands constant attention.  I
    was a ZOMBIE by the end of the day!  Needless to say, I couldn't give
    the IU game my undivided attention on Saturday.  Probably worked out
    for the best!  I do want to watch the tape of the second half however.
    
    I was indeed disappointed by UK's play.  The thing that disturbed my
    the most was their lack of rebounding.  There's absolutely no way IMO,
    that IU should have dominated the boards the way they did.  Dent was
    HORRIBLE.  Martinez was worse!  Riddick played a pretty decent game. 
    Rhodes played well in stretches.  I thought that the shot selection was
    poor also.  A couple of times they closed the margin to 5 points or so,
    only to go down the court and shoot an ill-advised three after one
    pass!  That's not Pitino's philosophy, just poor decision making by a
    very young team.
    
    I don't believe Pitino needs to change his coaching philosophy.  This
    same philosophy has taken UK to the Final 8 and Final 4 the last two
    seasons.  This team is young, and still searching for its identity
    after losing All-World Mashburn, and defensive ace Dale Brown.  They
    need someone to step up and take some pressure off of Travis Ford.  No
    one has proved they can handle the ball consistently other than Travis. 
    Last year, Mashburn handled the point when Travis needed a rest.
    
    In order for this years team to make a serious run for the title, Delk
    and the freshman Sheppard will need to make solid contributions at the
    guard position.  I think they will.  I said earlier that UK wasn't the
    number one team in the country at this time, and Saturday proved me
    correct.  I'd put them at 9 or 10 right now.
    
    ACC Chris, UK would have suffocated UNC with last years press.  No way
    you can compare last years UK team with this years.  Not having Brown
    and Mashburn makes a pretty big difference.  Pitino's willing to
    sacrifice some early games and let the team make mistakes in the press. 
    They will improve.
    
    - Rope

    > Pitino's willing to sacrifice some early games and let the team make
    > mistakes in the press.
    
    So it was truly_a ExcellentLoss then, eh?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>>    So it was truly_a ExcellentLoss then, eh?
    
    Yes.  UK obviously was the superior team talent wise.  Tom himself,
    mentioned that IU was slower, shorter, not as well coached, etc.
    
    This was an excellent learning experience for these YOUNG Cat's.  They
    didn't deserve a number one ranking at this point in the season, and
    this loss was needed in order to knock them down to their proper place
    in the rankings.
    
    - Rope
    

    Good time to take a hit.
    
    Kats shoulda never been #1 (yet).

	Bob, Bob, Bob.

	Tom did not say anything at all about Indiana not being as
	well-coached as UK.  In fact, as you and I have discusssed
	at other times, there's absolutely no doubt that Knight
	can coach rings around Pitino.  Ricky does dress nicer, however,
	and spends a lot more time and money on his hair.

	Now, if he spent less time on the hair and clothes and more
	time on his job, he'd probably notice that *GOOD* teams
	don't even bother to defend the 12-18 foot range against
	the Mildcats, because Ricky won't let them shoot from there.
	Makes a 5-9 point guard pretty easy to defend, and allows
	guys like Todd Lindemann and Richard Mandeville (Todd who?
	Richard who?) to effectively shut down Dent and Riddick.

tom

>        -< UNC would've *shredded* the Kaintucky press and won by +10 >-

And if'n the Heels lost, Knorr woulda quoted chapters and verses outta
the Excuse Bible in a_attempt to convince you that there was no way the
Heels shoulda won cause of some lame reasoning or another.

TTom

    "If" TTom.  "If".  Two (2) letters that form a small but
    oh-so-important word.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Have it your way:

When No Carolina loses, despite being the favorite, the fans, including
our own buddy Chris Knorr, read us the Excuse Bible.

We don't have to play what if. You're still whining about losing to
Marquette in that there other topic.

TTom

    > You're still whining about losing to Marquette
    
    I ain't whining.  I'm on record as saying the '77 UNC team overcame 
    incredible obstacles, including injuries, fate, and playing on another 
    teams home floor, to reach the final game.
    
    To state that they "choked away" a Title is simply not fair, not true,
    but mostly Intellectually Dishonest.
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Please explain how they overcame "fate".
    
    I must commend you on your note, Chris. It is vintage ACChris.
    
    Kudos,
    MikeL
    

�    Please explain how they overcame "fate".
    
    By playing the Fighting Irish in South Bend on St. Patrick's Day, of
    course.  Please try to keep up, MikeL.
    
    ACChris is real cocky with the predictions for games he knows won't be
    played.

    Please Mac,
    That's too easy an explanation. If that's "fate" he's been swallowing
    too many Knute Rockne stories. We're talkin' BBall here, even if
    da Irish had a knack of knockin' off #1's at home.
    
    MikeL
    

    Chris, please recall that UK was the favorite entering the Final 4 to
    win the title.  Had they survived the Michigan game, they would've been
    favored over UNC.  UNC had many problems with Cincinnati's pressure
    defense.  They would've faced more of the same with UK.
    
    - Rope

    What was UMASS' ranking when they beat UNC?  (Or Butler when they
    whooped INDY)
    
    The Kats play terrible and got beat by a ranked team at home (as far as
    I'm concerned Indy is home to INDIANA).  Big deal.  Noone expected an 
    undefeated season this year...
    
    I don't understand whut da big deal iz, anaway...
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach
    
    (Go_KATS!)

    re .100
    
    A voice of reason in a sea of darkness.  Thank you Chip!
    
    - ROPE

>    but mostly Intellectually Dishonest.

The Heels were favored and lost. They lost to the team that they were
favored to beat. With all their problems and/or injuries, they were
favored. They lost.

BMID is youre tripe about reading from the Excuse Bible.

But I do like the fate part. I strongly suggest incorporating this into
the injury, the other team was hot, the other team had a_end o' season
peak and all that other wonderful stuff about why the Heels lost.

TTom

    EKU?  (My alma mater)
    
    Well...  Go Kats.  I guess...

    re: choking
    
    So is it safe to say that anytime a team is favored by Vegas oddsmakers
    and loses that they choked?  Rope, can you help us out on this one?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>>               <<< Note 84.104 by RHETT::KNORR "Carolina Blue" >>>
>>                            -< Inquiring Minds ... >-

>>    re: choking
    
>>    So is it safe to say that anytime a team is favored by Vegas oddsmakers
>>    and loses that they choked?  Rope, can you help us out on this one?
    
    
>>    - ACC Chris
    
    I'd say no.  Maybe the team was just a media creation ala the FSU
    Seminoles.  To determine whether a team choked, you'd have to look at
    every angle.  Did poor officiating play a part, poor coaching,
    injuries, etc.  
    
    Does an entire team get the "choke" label if the loss is the result of
    horrendous coaching?
    
    Speaking Words of Wisdom,
    
    Rope
    

    I say a choke is an runaway favorite losing.

    If the oddsmakerz had team "1" to win by one, and they lost by one,
    wouldn't classify that as a choke...

    Whatever happened to Rodney Dobard?
    
    NAZZ

    re: .107
    
    Nazz, why are you posting an ACC question in the SEC note?  If_n you
    axe in 21 (and say purty please w/ sugar on top) I *might* be coerced
    into giving an answer.
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Don't need to know anywhere near that bad.
    
    NAZZ

    I'd help NAZZ, but I haven't a clue.  You'll find the SEC fans
    generally a bit more accomodating than ACC's.  
    
    Remaining Intellectually Honest and of Sound Mind,
    
    - Rope

    UK wins a close one from Eastern Kentucky 107-78.  Travis Ford had
    another good game netting 12 points and dishing out a school RECORD 15
    assists.  It appears the calculated IU defeat is already paying
    dividends.
    
    Go Big Blue,
    
    - Rope

    Quoting Basketball Commentator and Former Marquette Coach Al McGuire
    
    ********
    
    "My genuine opinion of the Kentucky basketball program is that there is
    only one and it is top drawer, Park Avenue, and that all other
    basketball programs in the country think they are, but they are not. 
    The closest ones to get to it (Kentucky) are North Carolina, maybe
    Indiana and UCLA.  But at Kentucky, basketball is a type of religion,
    such a fanatical obsession that they expect to be national champions
    each year, and they live and die with each ball game."
    
    "One of the things that is so different about Kentucky is that they
    have more than 100 stations that the games are broadcast over, while
    most colleges that have three or four think they are the greatest thing
    since sliced bread.  Kentucky puts SRO -- 23,000 people -- in Rupp
    Arena; if they built an arena seating 50,000, there would still be a
    waiting list."
    
    "I'm not looking to throw a party for Kentucky, but that is how I feel. 
    I think it's an honest appraisal because I've seen all the programs,
    touching them as a coach, a player, and as an NBC broadcast
    commentator ...I have touched all the so-called capitals of basketball,
    but when it gets down to the short stroke the only true capital of
    basketball is Lexington.  I even think there are times when the horses
    kinda bend down a little to the roundball."
    
    ******
    
    Thanks Al.  Couldn't have said it better myself.
    
    - Rope

    Carolina has the finest basketball *program* in the USA, of that there
    can be no doubt.  When you factor in the complete picture of conference
    affiliation, coaching continuity and excellence, TV exposure,
    graduation percentages, wins, titles, Titles, NBA players, NBA coaches,
    collegiate coaches, and (last but not least) the squeaky clean
    reputation of the program that places it above reproach, .....  wail
    it's quite simply alone in the Pantheon.
    
    HOWEVER, ....
    
    As much as I love Dean/UNC, I gotta admit that our "fans" often leave
    much to be desired.  Compared to Kaintucky or Duke the lard-aces that
    show up in the DeanDome are pathetic, if they show up at all! 
    Virtually *EVERY* televised game in Chapel Hill will reveal a slew
    of empty seats around the court, and for most games the crowd noise is
    minimal.  My dad went to the FSU game a couple years ago, which was the
    infamous "wine and cheese" game during which FSU handed us our haids. 
    ACC Chris' pop reports that the place was like a tomb at tip-off.  I
    went to the Blue/White game which was reportedly a sell-out, and there
    had to be *at least* 2,000 empty seats.  To say that the crowd was
    lethargic would be an understatement.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

�Compared to Kaintucky or Duke the lard-aces that
�    show up in the DeanDome are pathetic, if they show up at all! 
    
    And exactly how many of these games have you gone to?

    UK won their opening round game in the Maui Invitational beating Texas
    by 25 points.  What was extremely pleasing to me was the fact that they
    took only 4 3-ptr's in the 1st half.  Not sure what the game total was. 
    Rodrick Rhodes is really starting to play well.  He's really taking
    advantage of his athletic skills and driving to the basket much more
    then in the past.  Jared Prickett had a good game scoring 14 points and
    grabbing 14 boards.  Walter McCarty is going to be a great player once
    he gets some more strength and experience.  He shows some fine moves to
    the basket for a big man.
    
    Tonight UK faces Ohio State.  It'll be real interesting to see how they
    handle Funderburk.
    
    Anyone know what time the game is tonight?  I'm pretty sure it's on
    ESPN.
    
    Happy Holidays - Rope

Either 9:30PM or midnight if it is on ESPN.

The Crazy Met

    re: Funderburke
    
    Lawrence ain't playin' for squat lately.  He still hasn't recovered
    from gettin' both knees scoped.  Seems to have lost all his arrogance,
    too, which hurts his game.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

sorta like Montross, but Montross doesn't have those excuses.

The Crazy Met

    Kentucky-Arizona final, after the Wildcats toyed with Ohio State
    and Arizona upset Boston College.  ESPN tonight at 9:30.
    
    NAZZ

Was Arizona over BC an upset?? what was the final score, I turned it off 
with Arizona leading by 13 or so in the second half.

The Crazy Met

Arizona scored 9 of the last 11 points to win 70-65.  BC led by 61-57 with
3:40 left.

    
    
     Don't quite know why it's an upset the 'Cats where ranked ahead of
    the Eagles.
    
    Jerry

yeah I thought Arizona was higher ranked.

The Crazy Met

�     Don't quite know why it's an upset the 'Cats where ranked ahead of
�    the Eagles.
    
    Maybe it was one of those North Carolina/Notre Dame destiny type
    upsets.

    Big game tonight for UK.  Vandy and their All-American Billy McCaffery
    come to town.  Game presents two matchup problems for UK.  
    
    	1. Obviously McCaffery.  At 6'4 there's no way you put Ford on him.
    	   He'll have to be covered by Delk, who's still learning how to
           spell defense!  I suspect you'll see Sheparrd and Brassow on him
           quite a bit also.
    
    	2. Lawson in the middle.  Lawson's a big stud down low.  UK hasn't
           the size and strength to handle him with just one player.  UK
           will have to win this battle by wearing him down with a rotation
           of three.
    
    I believe UK's depth will spell the difference in the end.  Look for a
    9 point win.
    
    Watch out for UK's frosh Jeff Sheppard.  He's playing real good
    basketball lately.  He'll spell Tony Delk at 2 guard.
    
    GO BIG BLUE, 
    
    Rope

               <<< Note 84.127 by RHETT::KNORR "Carolina Blue" >>>
         -< Sheppard is from Peachtree City, GA, BTW. (Mr.Basketball) >-
    
    
    Sheppard won for class 3A I think.  Dontonio Wingfield (UC) won for
    class 4A.
    
    Is that right Chris, or do I have the classes backwards?
    
    - Rope

    High school classes in Georgia might as well by Nuclear Physics as far
    as I'm concerned.  Way too complicated to figure out.
    
    Wingfield is from Albany, GA.  (BTW, how come he didn't play in
    Cincinnati's last game.)  Sheppard from Peachtree City.
    
    BTW, Carolina's (only) signee, Shammond Williams, is a Top-200ish
    prospect who impressed late.  The kid's from South Carolina and it was
    down to South Carolina, Kaintucky, and UNC.  Once the 'Cats signed
    Edwards he narrowed it to USC & UNC before finally choosing The Tar
    Heels, where he'll likely spend most of career on the bench.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Re: .129
    
         I read somewhere that Dontonio Wingfield has suffered a stress
    fracture to his right foot, and will be out 3 to 6 weeks.
    
    Russ

    UK trounced Vandy last night by the tune of 107 - 82.  Offensively, the
    Cats are really starting to cook!  This is a vastly different team then
    the UK teams of the past 4 years.  This team is pushing the ball inside
    at every opportunity.  Rodrick Rhodes appears to have come of age this
    year.  He's much more patient, and is using his quickness to punish
    defenders.
    
    The only negative last night was the injury to Rodney Dent in the first
    half.  The team Dr. said he had a torn ACL.  If this is true, then
    that's a huge blow.  Dent's been the starter at center for the last two
    seasons.  Really hurts the teams depth in the middle.
    
    More later,
    
    Rope

    Thanks Russ.  Is it just me, or does it seem as though there's an awful
    lot of stress fracture injuries these days?
    
    I suspect one (1) of three (3) possibilities:
    
    1. Better diagnostic techniques to discover root problems;
    2. Shoe technology hasn't advanced nearly as much as marketing
       technique;
    3. Players logging many more minutes per year on the courts than
       in the past.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Probably a combination of all three, plus add in the fact that todays
players are bigger and in a lot of cases heavier than in that past.

'Saw

    Maybe these guys are falling asleep in locked hotel rooms.

    Its the shoes... The way the shoes are made nowadays they encase your
    foot and ankle so something has to give.....
    
    REK

    Jeff Sheppard won the Slam Dunk contest at the 1992 Boston Shootout.
    
    NAZZ

     <<< Note 84.137 by TNPUBS::NAZZARO "Gentleness overcomes strength" >>>
            -< Kentucky is deep enough to handle the loss of Dent >-
    
    Probably a correct statement NAZZ.  However, UNC is deep enough to
    overcome the loss of Montross, but it certainly wouldn't help their
    cause.  Same w/ UK losing Dent.  UK had a rotation of Dent and Riddick
    in the middle w/ Martinez playing the power forward position backing up
    Prickett.  Now this injury forces Martinez to play center once again
    which leaves UK with two "lightweights" in the middle.  One thing Dent
    gave the team was a wide-body down low.  Riddick and Martinez haven't
    the size to compensate for this loss.
    
    On the plus side, this may help out Walter McCarty quite a bit.  Walter
    should see significantly more playing time in the near future.  His
    only problem is again size.  He's 6'9 and about 205.  Put another 25
    pounds on the kid, and he will be a force.
    
    - Rope

	Wire service is reporting that Dent is out for season, and since
	he is not eligible for a medical redhirt, then his collegiate career
	is now complete.

    Well barring any unforseen circumstances such as inclement weather,
    I'll be travelling to Lexington tomorrow night to see Kentucky and
    Notre Dame.  I was in town last week to see the San Francisco game. 
    
    Shouldn't be too close, but it's always fun to see a game in Rupp with
    24,000 strong pulling for the 'Cats.
    
    Looking forward to seeing more of McCarty and Sheppard.
    
    - Rope

    Rope, what's the situation like for getting Kaintucky tickets?  Do you
    know somebody, or usually just scoff one at the door?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    ACC-
    
    If you need tics, drop me a line.  My brudder in law is mister
    Lexington (in his own mind) but knows everyone (it seems).  I have
    never had a problem getting tickets, and went to some good games
    in the past few years, iffin your in Lex, I'll give him a call...
    
    _GSH_

    re: GSH
    
    If Kaintucky & UNC resume their series, I just might make the trip to
    Lexington some time.  Otherwise, fergit it.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

�    Well barring any unforseen circumstances such as inclement weather,
�    I'll be travelling to Lexington tomorrow night to see Kentucky and
�    Notre Dame.  
    
    ACChris didya see this?  Rope is going to see his favorite basketball
    team in person.  How about that.

    What can I say Mac?  Rope is obviously a better fan than me.  Clearly.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Does this mean we don't have to read anymore Me&Dean stuff?

    > Does this mean we don't have to read anymore Me&Dean stuff?
    
    No, it just means you're making a bigger fool of yourself than usual.
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

               <<< Note 84.141 by RHETT::KNORR "Carolina Blue" >>>
                -< Seems like it oughta be a tough ticket .... >-

>>    Rope, what's the situation like for getting Kaintucky tickets?  Do you
>>    know somebody, or usually just scoff one at the door?
    
    Chris, unless you do know someone it's extremely difficult to get UK
    tickets in general.  The two games I saw in the last week had available
    seats because the students are still on semester break.  Otherwise, no
    dice.  If a person is willing, tickets can usually be bought from a
    scalper.  I've never gone that route.  I have a friend in Law School at
    UK that can occasionally get me tickets also.
    
    BTW, even if UNC doesn't play in Rupp in the near future, you should
    check it out if you're ever in the area.  Any B-Ball fanatic would love
    it.  You get pumped even if you're not a Cats fan when 24,000 strong
    are going crazy.  I enjoy seeing as many different arenas as possible. 
    I've seen games in the following places:
    
    	Assembly Hall       - Bloomington, IN (IU)
        Mackey Arena        - W. Lafayette, IN (Purdue)
        Freedom Hall        - Louisville, KY (Various)
        Riverfront Coliseum - Cincinnati, OH (Various)
        UD Arena            - Dayton, OH     (UD Flyers + NCAA Regionals)
        Market Square Arena - Indianapolis, IN (1987 Pan-American Games)
        Hoosier Dome        - Indianapolis, IN (IU, UK, NCAA Regionals)
    	Rupp Arena          - Lexington, Ky    (UK)
        Superdome           - New Orleans, La (1993 Final Four)
    
    I'm too tired to think about ranking them!  I can say quickly however
    that the Superdome is the absolute worst place I've ever seen a game.
    
    - Rope
    

    Tough to get a feel for the Cats last night.  Notre Dame simply is
    struggling mightily in basketball.  ND committed a Rupp Arena record 34
    turnovers!  Sadly, UK toyed with them much of the evening eventually
    winning by 25 points, 84 - 59.  Halftime had them up by 18 - 43-25.
    
    One obvious thing is that UK is really hurt by the loss of Rodney Dent. 
    Dent was the only "Big" inside player they had at 6'11 240.  Now UK is
    forced to start Riddick who is way too thin at 210.  If Riddick and
    McCarty can't put on some weight by tournament time, than this team
    will not be a serious contender for the title.  With Dent, UK was one
    of the favorites to take it all.  Without, only time will tell.
    
    UK travels to Georgia this weekend.  Georgia is extremely big up front. 
    They go 7'1, 6'8, and 6'10 if memory serves.  All are 225 and up weight
    wise.  I'm going out on a limb here and predicting an upset in Athens. 
    UK hasn't had enough time to learn to play without Dent.  Georgia by 6.
    
    - Rope

    Rope,
    	I'm surprised that you haven't done the second tier route of
    southern colleges like Mississippi Southern and others with the
    absolutely rabid, local fans for whom the home college basketball team
    is the biggest thing (sporting) in the world.
    
    	I have a friend who retired and starting visiting these hotbeds and
    msu was great.

                      <<< Note 84.150 by AKOCOA::BREEN >>>

>>    Rope,
>>    	I'm surprised that you haven't done the second tier route of
>>    southern colleges like Mississippi Southern and others with the
>>    absolutely rabid, local fans for whom the home college basketball team
>>    is the biggest thing (sporting) in the world.
    
>>    	I have a friend who retired and starting visiting these hotbeds and
>>      msu was great.
    
    Sounds interesting.  I have a buddy who is a rabid Notre Dame fan and
    alum.  He enjoys travelling to different Mid-Western Universities to
    see different stadiums, etc.  He tries to hit a different one each
    year.
    
    In the future, I'd like to target the following places for basketball.
    
    	- Millete Hall - Oxford, OH (Miami - Ron Harper - Alum)
        - Cincinnati Gardens - Cincinnati, OH (Xavier)
    	- Diddle Arena - Bowling Green, KY (Western Kentucky)
    	- ACC - South Bend, IN - (Notre Dame)
    
    I'd also love to catch a game in Madison Square Garden one day.  That'd
    be great.
    
    - Rope
    

    My two favorite madison sq. garden games were bc louisville, 66 nit and
    bc - ucla jan. 68 (alcindor).
    
    I go back to nit as early as 63 whence I recall an all white memphis
    state team playing.  Of course from 73-83 I caught just about all the 
    nits including seeing mchale play (upset by alabama) and a nd-so-cal
    game which needed a foul differential of 34-2 for the irish to prevail.
    (the ref who called the one foul on nd perhaps never did another nit
    game :-) )
    madison sq. crowds being very knowledgable can show tremendous
    appreciation for a good game.  umass re the other note interest of the
    day was one school that could draw a tremendously lively nit crowd
    circa 1970; the other, and best was uconn.
    
    palestra in philly was a great bball hotbed but had died by the mid
    70s.
    
    The tremendous city college basketball interest was dead by mid 60s; I
    am basically just old enough to know of the great excitement of the
    46-55 era; that excitement is only in the hinterlands today

    Well, as predicted, UK suffered its first SEC loss Saturday to Georgia
    94-90 in OT.  Biggest problem in this game as will be all season long
    without Dent was rebounding.  Georgia whipped UK 54-38 on the boards! 
    UK outscored Georgia by 30 points from three-point land and still lost! 
    Not sure what can be done at this point to improve rebounding.  When
    you're 25-30 pounds lighter across the front-line, you're gonna have
    problems.
    
    Rodrick Rhodes is back in Pitino's dog house.  He just isn't hustling. 
    At 6'7, Rhodes should be pulling down many more rebounds.  I believe he
    had 0 boards in the Georgia game.  Pitino said Jeff Sheppard, a 6'4
    freshman will start in his place this Wednesday.  Also look for
    Martinez to start in Riddick's place in the middle.
    
    More later,
    
    Rope

    In the biggest upset this weekend, an admittedly weak Alabama squad
    upset the number one team in the nation, Arkansas!  Arkansas fell to
    number three in the polls.
    
    - Rope

Kudo's to Rope for correctly calling the Georgia upset of Kaintucky.
The 'Cats lost in OT, but it took a miracle to get them there in the
first place.  (They were down six (6) with just over a minute left.)

Without an inside presence this Kentucky team is gonna be like *so*
many Pitino teams of the past.  They'll press.  They'll shoot the 3
(sometimes well, sometimes not_so_well).  They'll lay it on the line
every night.

And they will not win a Title.
    

>>Without an inside presence this Kentucky team is gonna be like *so*
>>many Pitino teams of the past.  They'll press.  They'll shoot the 3
>>(sometimes well, sometimes not_so_well).  They'll lay it on the line
>>every night.

>>And they will not win a Title.
    
    I would tend to agree with that statement.  Remember, Pitino in the
    past hasn't had the talent for a strong inside game with any of his
    clubs.  He's just know starting to get the strong inside people at UK. 
    It'll take a couple of years.  
    
    Riddick and McCarty will have to put on some serious poundage if UK is
    to realize their goals for this season (National Title).  Next year,
    they will be much stronger in the middle with the addition of
    Washington transfer Mark Pope.  Pope goes 6'9 and 240-250.  
    
    - Rope
    

    In football news, Tennessee Junior Heath Schuler has announced he will
    turn pro and skip his final year.  Schuler has been projected as a
    probable top 5 pick in this years NFL draft.  Draft experts aren't sure
    if he will be the first QB chosen however.  There is some kid out of
    Fresno State that's ranked highly.
    
    - Rope

    More SEC football.  David Palmer, Alabama's multi-purpose back has
    decided to go pro; likewise, James Bostic, tailback from Auburn, will
    go pro.
    
    - Bob

    Interesting comments from UK coach Rick Pitino on his radio call-in
    show last night.
    
    On the potential of this years squad minus Rodney Dent:
    
    - Anytime a team has great guard play, which we do with Travis Ford,
    Tony Delk, and Jeff Sheppard, they have a chance to win any game.  I
    believe that by tournament time, we will have a chance to compete for
    the title.  However, we must improve our rebounding to give ourselves a
    realistic chance.  We will become much more like the teams in my second
    and third year here where we will spread the offense and look for
    back-door opportunities, etc.
    
    When asked about the potential of UK joining the ACC Pitino had the
    following reply:
    
    "Ralph, that's one of the few things that I just can't comment on!"
    
    I took the statement to mean that C.M. Newton and the top brass have
    probably already been contacted by the ACC.  UK may seriously be
    considering joining the ACC.  Very interesting... I for one would
    welcome a move to the ACC.
    
    - Rope

    
    re. David Palmer
    
    	Damn!
    
    Claybone

    > I for one would welcome a move to the ACC.
    
    I for one would not.  We're already the best basketball league in the
    USA.  Why give Kentucky another biscuit to dangle in front of a
    potential recruit?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

                              
>    I for one would not.  We're already the best basketball league in the
>    USA.  Why give Kentucky another biscuit to dangle in front of a
>    potential recruit?
    
    Skeered UNC won't be able to compete with Kentucky on equal terms?  Why
    not welcome the challenge?
    
    glenn
    

                     <<< Note 84.165 by NAC::G_WAUGAMAN >>>
        -< Petty jealousies have no place in collegiate athletics, imo >-
    
>>    Skeered UNC won't be able to compete with Kentucky on equal terms?  Why
>>    not welcome the challenge?
    
>>    glenn
    
    I agree 100%.  Typically, the ACC is battling the Big 10 for "Best
    Conference" rights in any given year.  If the ACC added Kentucky, it
    would put them over the hump.  Also, think of some of the great home
    and home games with Duke and UNC.  That alone is worth the price of
    admission!  I'm interested in them joining the ACC strictly from a
    football perspective.  The SEC is killing them!  
    
    As far as basketball recruiting goes, they don't need much help if any. 
    They are one of the few schools as it is that can recruit nationally. 
    However, joining the ACC certainly wouldn't hurt.  Might be able to
    steal a few recruits from Dean's back yard!
    
    - Rope
    

    Me and Dean don't see any reason to give the Kaintuck's a helping hand
    recruiting_wise.  A better solution would be to resume the UNC-UK
    home-and-home, which the 'Cats dropped out of after getting pounded
    several years in succession and begging out of their 6-year deal.
    
    While not directly on the subject of the SEC, is anybody else tired of
    John Wooden's pompous arrogance?  I mean, the guy comes off as
    oh-so-humble, but don't believe it for a nano-second.  He quit college
    coaching right before the "modern" era began and now feels justified in
    implying he could win his ga-zillion Titles in a row in the 90's.  Ya,
    right.  
    
    For some unknown reason Carolina Blue felt the need to interview "The
    Wizard of Westwood" (wizard of oz, maybe) and he pontificated that he
    didn't really agree with alot of Dean's coaching philosophies, as if
    Deano himself is looking up to Wooden who dwells in the Pantheon alone.
    
    Ha!  The guy quit right before college coaching *really* got tough, and
    now plays like he's smarter than the games best minds who are still at
    work prowling the sidelines.
    
    STUFF UP, JOHN.  Yer thru.  Yer ancient.  Yer way, way, WAY overrated.
    
    There, I feel better now.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

>   While not directly on the subject of the SEC, is anybody else tired of
>    John Wooden's pompous arrogance?

no...The man is the greatest coach in the history of college sports...Dean
should be greatful if Wooden allowed him to sniff his shoes. 

And haven't you gotten spanked over this issue several times before by folks
showing that wooden's championships are unparelleled and Dean's measly 2 gifts
don't amount to squat compared to what Wooden did?

Metz

    Wooden is not directly on the subject of the SEC???  How about Wooden
    doesn't have anything to do with the subject of the SEC.  Get the hell
    back in the ACC topic.

    Ya know Metz, I cain handle Wooden and all his pretentiousness, but for
    him to say he could corner the talent market again and win a decade+
    worth of Titles is a bit much.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
>    Ya know Metz, I cain handle Wooden and all his pretentiousness, but for
>    him to say he could corner the talent market again and win a decade+
>    worth of Titles is a bit much.
    
    Why not?  Dean's proven that with a reputation you can handle the
    talent part.  The rest is just beating the field, which Wooden already
    proved he could do.
    
    Again, certainly Wooden couldn't again win the 10 titles in a 
    12-year stretch in today's game, but I think he could have pulled off 
    four or five over the course of Deano's post-Wooden coaching career, 
    just as he pulled off four or five in the years where UCLA was not a
    prohibitive title favorite. 
    
    glenn
    
                               

    > Again, certainly Wooden couldn't again win the 10 titles in a 
    > 12-year stretch in today's game, but I think he could have pulled off 
    
    So you agree with me then that Wooden is on an ego trip by attempting
    to raise the public perception of his past accomplishments by saying
    they could be done in the modern era then, eh?  Good, and mission
    accomplished.
    
    
    - ACC Chris    

    
>    So you agree with me then that Wooden is on an ego trip by attempting
>    to raise the public perception of his past accomplishments by saying
>    they could be done in the modern era then, eh?
    
    Naw, I'd probably respond the same way if I had some Carolina Poop
    Sheet flunky in my face, more interested in sucking up to Dean than 
    treating the topic with the respect that it deserves...
    
    glenn
    

    I'll never forget Wooden announcing his retirement before the title
    game with Kentucky in 1975.  I knew UK was in for a long day before the
    game even started.  That was a very strong UK team.  You had an
    All-American forward in Kevin Grevey, solid post play with Bob Guyette,
    solid guard play with Jimmy Dan Conner and Mike Flynn, and a group of
    freshman that would lead UK to the title 3 years later (Jack Givens,
    Rick Robey, Mike Phillips, James Lee).
    
    - Rope

    UK will try an improve their inside defense tonight against Ole Miss in
    Louisville.  Tennessee is on tap Saturday in Rupp.  UK should have no
    problem against either of these struggling programs.
    
    My only question is how long is Tennessee going to put up with Wade
    Houston and non-winning seasons?
    
    - Rope

    Rope, it would be tough to steal any recruits from Dean's back yard.
    As I'm sure you know, there are so few legitimate Division 1 players
    in North Carolina that Dean regularly must journey up North to steal
    some yankees to play for him down south.  If St. John's coulda kept
    half of the local talent that went to play for the Heels, little Looie
    woulda won a half dozen NCAA titles.
    
    NAZZ

    WouldaCouldaShoulda, Nazz.  That and a buck will get ya a cup of
    coffee.  North Carolina has produced the greatest basketball player to
    ever walk on planet Earth, along with the likes of Worthy, Ford,
    WalterDavis, and McAdoo, just off the top of my haid.
    
    Looks like Rick Pitino is thoroughly disgusted with Rodrick Rhodes.  He
    blasted the kid after the Georgia 'L' saying that he's discusted with
    his play.  He was particularly irate that the kid swore at a Georgia
    player (and picked up a technical foul in the process).
    
    Pitino also had the following dialog with the press after the Georgia
    game:
    
    Pitino:	"For all you so-called experts, now you'll listen to the
    		 coach that sees the players in practice every day....
    		 Listen to what I'm talking about."
    
    When a friend of Pitino's tried to rescue him from the media, Pitino
    snapped back "I'll go when I'm ready.  These are important people."
    
    Pitino then winked at a Lexington reporter.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re: Tennessee (@ Wade Houston)
    
    Now that the Volunteers have used up Wade Houston, Jr's services, it's
    time for Wade Houston, Sr. to get fired.  And fired he will git.
    
    The word is Ralph Willard is house hunting in Knoxville.
    
    
    - SEC Chris

               <<< Note 84.178 by RHETT::KNORR "Carolina Blue" >>>
            -< Q: Is Danny Manning's dad still coaching @ Kansas? >-
    
    
    Not sure about Manning's dad.  I always thought it was more than a bit
    sleazy for a program to hire a recruits father as an assistant.  Just
    smells bad!
    
    Interesting rumor on Ralph Willard.  One would suspect that he's not
    long for Western Kentucky.
    
    - Rope

    UK demolished Ole Miss last night.  Wasn't as close as the score
    indicated!  They are trying to learn a new offense in lieu of Dent's
    absence.  Pitino is instructing Martinez to play outside to draw the
    opposing center out of the middle.  Basically the rest of the team will
    try and use their athletic ability to drive to the hoop, etc.  
    
    Walter McCarty started for the first time last night at forward and had
    a huge game.  Walter scored 16 points in the first 5 minutes!  He
    finished with 24 points, tied w/ Jared Prickett for game high.  As I've
    stated before, McCarty just needs more weight and strength.  At 6'10,
    210, he gets pushed around a bit.  Offensively, McCarty's a stud.
    
    - Rope

    Heard a real nice recruiting rumor last week.  Oliver Simmons is a 6'9
    Junior from Nashville, Tennessee.  Simmons averaged 31 points a game as
    a sophomore and led his team to the Class AA State Championship.  This
    year he's averaging 27 ppg.  Apparently Simmons wants to announce his
    college choice on his birthday - TODAY!  Bob Gibbons says that Simmons
    will announce for Kentucky.  Only time will tell...
    
    - Rope

    Rodrick Rhodes won his way back into UK's starting lineup with another
    excellent performance last Saturday against Tennessee.  Rhodes had been
    benched because of poor rebounding.  He responded with 8 boards against
    Ole Miss on Wednesday, and 10 boards against Tennessee.  Walter McCarty
    also had a HUGE game against the Vols w/ 12 boards.  
    
    This UK squad can still be a threat for the Title if they can become a
    better rebounding team.  The last couple of games are positive
    indications that maybe they are turning it around.  Tony Delk also had
    10 boards in the Vol game.
    
    - Rope

    Kentucky will learn rather quickly if they have improved enough to be a
    serious Title contender when they face Florida tonight on the road. 
    Florida is one of the 3 or 4 top teams in the SEC Eastern Division.
    
    Game is to be televised on ESPN at 9:30.  Prior to the UK game, ESPN
    will televise Indiana at Purdue.  Should be a great night for hoops.
    
    - Rope

> Florida is one of the 3 or 4 top teams in the SEC Eastern Division

and there are what, 6 teams in the division??

The Crazy Met

    >> and there are what, 6 teams in the division??
    
    Yes.  6 in the East and 6 in the West.  The East is definetly the
    stronger of the two with 4 teams capable of winning the conference
    tourny in Georga, Vandy, Florida and Kentucky.  In the West, once you
    get past Arkansas and Auburn, there ain't much.
    
    
    - Rope

>    Yes.  6 in the East and 6 in the West.  The East is definetly the
>    stronger of the two with 4 teams capable of winning the conference
>    tourny in Georga, Vandy, Florida and Kentucky.  In the West, once you
>    get past Arkansas and Auburn, there ain't much.
>    
>    
>    - Rope

     Let's see, Alabama has already beaten Arkansas and LSU lost by 3 or 4
     in Fayetteville.  MSU is unbeaten in the conference so far.

     On the other hand, Georgia's ONLY good victory came against Kentucky,
     and Vanderbilt has looked so hot either.  Seems to me that the West
     really is just bout as strong as the east.

who gives a FF??

The Crazy Met

    Craze,
    Are you rapidly approaching male menopause or the snow/ice got to ya?
    
    8^)
    MikeL
    

    re: TCM  (Who cares.)
    
    Yo, Rope & Rollins, PU-LEAZE knock off this SEC basketball discussion
    in the SEC topic.  Don't you realize if events don't take place in the
    NorthEastCorridor that they may as well not even have happened?
    
    Thanks, but I must say I like Florida an awful lot tonight.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

> Thanks, but I must say I like Florida an awful lot tonight.
    

be nice to see ya in here tomorrow.

MikeL - come up with some other excuses, 'yer gettin' there.

The Crazy Met

�who gives a FF??
    
    What's a matter, real sports talk getting to you?

=Bob=

re. 191

I think the Cadets need to take a look at that. Decoder ring required.

The Crazy Met

                     <<< Note 84.186 by MIMS::ROLLINS_R >>>

>>     Let's see, Alabama has already beaten Arkansas and LSU lost by 3 or 4
>>     in Fayetteville.  MSU is unbeaten in the conference so far.

    Wasn't the Hog's loss to Bama in Tuscaloosa?  If so, I'd say Arkansas
    had the same problem as Kentucky at Georgia in that neither team had
    played a tough team on the road.  Georgia was UK's first real road game
    of the season!  IU was on a neutral court in Indy, and the Maui
    Invitational was of course neutral.  LSU has the potential I guess to
    be pretty strong with their two super frosh guards.  I'll check, but I
    don't think MSU has played anybody of consequence yet.
    
>>     On the other hand, Georgia's ONLY good victory came against Kentucky,
>>     and Vanderbilt has looked so hot either.  Seems to me that the West
>>     really is just bout as strong as the east.
    
    You may be right.  We'll be able to determine alot about the East with
    tonights game down in Gainsville.  Vandy has been hurt alot by Fogler
    leaving IMO.
    
    - Rope
    

    

    Yo Rope,
    Since you is a UK fan, Ft.Waynian, and close to South Bend,
    give me yo' analysis and prognostication for ND BBall... i.e.
    Is it conceivable that ND can become a national so-so power
    again someday??... do we need (as I believe) to join a
    conference... cain we attract national recruits??..
    
    We need hep main, give me yo' professional advice(no pun intended).
    Feel free to comment in Note #35(ND).
    
    Merci,
    MikeL
    

    Good call ACCChris on the Kentucky-Florida game. Florida wins by 2.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Definitely an ugly affair last night in Gainesville.  Kentucky looked
    *sick* man, SICK!  (The first half was particularly horrid by both
    teams.)
    
    Kentucky, in the hunt for a Title?  Haw haw haw!!!!!! (Sorry, Rope.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>>    Definitely an ugly affair last night in Gainesville.  Kentucky looked
>>    *sick* man, SICK!  (The first half was particularly horrid by both
>>    teams.)
    
>>    Kentucky, in the hunt for a Title?  Haw haw haw!!!!!! (Sorry, Rope.)
    
    Yes, ACC, I'd have to agree that UK looked a bit sick last night.  I
    said it when it first happened, and I'll reiterate, the loss of 6'11,
    240 lb Rodney Dent was and continues to be devasting.  DeClerq had 20
    rebounds!  Puuuleaaaze, 20 rebounds?  Was this Dennis Rodman or Charles
    Barkley?  NOT!  If this Kentucky team reaches the Sweet 16 this season,
    I'll be pleased.  It will have been a good year.  I guess UK fans can
    sit and wonder about what might have been with Dent in the lineup as IU
    fans did last year w/ Alan Henderson.
    
    20 REBOUNDS? - I DON'T THINK SO!
    
    - Rope
    

Rope,

I think you're supposed to save those injury excuses for the playoffs.

And on the issue of looking bad, Kentucky didn't completely stink up the
place like the Heels did at Georgia Tech. And they didn't quit, either.

TTom

>>And on the issue of looking bad, Kentucky didn't completely stink up the
>>place like the Heels did at Georgia Tech. 

>>TTom
    
    Good points.  I've been spoiled by too many seasons in the past like
    last years.  Florida does have a good team, and now will get the
    national attention that they deserve.  The Sagarin Index had them
    listed at number 21.  
    
    >> And they didn't quit, either.
    
    I've never seen a Rick Pitino coached UK team quit.  Which reminds me
    of a play that really ticked me off last night.  There's 7.6 seconds
    left in the game and Kentucky has the ball down by 3.  Logic dictates
    that they take a 3 to tie the game and go to OT right?  WRONG! Florida
    fouls Ford at Half Court and he nevers has the opportunity to shoot a
    three.  This is a bad rule in my opinion and not just because UK lost
    last night.  Force the teams to play defense down the stretch!  Maybe
    they should have 3 FT's for every foul committed by the team ahead
    within the last 2 minutes of a game.  Sounds crazy, I realize.  Just
    seems that since Florida fouled Ford while leading by 3 to keep him
    from shooting the potential game tying shot stinks.  He should have
    stepped to the line with the chance to hit 3 FT's.
    
    - Rope

The strategy of giving 2 FTs to prevent the 3-point attempt has been
around as long as the 3-pointer itself.

And the rules governing intentional fouls continues to evolve. The whole
issue here is whether the refs think this strategy falls into the
category of intentional. It seems that the latest interpretation is that
as long as it's not very physical, the most they'll call is a regular
foul.

TTom

�                            -< is it intentional? >-
    
    Aren't 99% of the fouls during the last 2 minutes of the game
    intentional when you look at the strict definition of the word?

Absolutley, Mac.

The intentional foul is just not called unless someone really gets
hammered.

TTom

    Refs should call the last two minutes the same way they call the entire
    game.  If anything, as opposed to flagrant fouls, non-fouls are called
    in the last minutes.  The losing team has to foul because they no
    longer can play the same aggressive defense they use the first 38
    minutes.
    
    At one time, (before tcm) the last five minutes of a game was liable to
    be a donneybrook because refs were reluctant to call fouls and that was
    disadvantageous to the team ahead.  So college refs were instructed to
    blow the whistle when the losing team breathed on the opponent.  Then
    came Valvano ball and now the absurdity of asking refs to decide the
    "intentions" of the foul-er.
    
    Cincinatti  - Loyola of Chicago comes to mind as an example of how a
    team can come from behind in the late minutes without fouling.

    Hey Bill the Elder you should tm BTCM
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Mississippi State shocks Arkansas 73-72 last night and remains
    undefeated in SEC play.  The 'Dogs own a 2 game advantage over the Hogs
    as does Florida over Kentucky.  Who'd of thought!
    
    Kentucky travels to Miss State this Saturday.  Wonderful.  It'll take a
    herculean effort for UK to bring home a victory.  Without one, they
    stand a chance of falling 3 games behind Florida.  That folks would be
    too large a deficit to overcome.
    
    - Rope

    Huge win for Kentucky on the road.  After trailing by 4 at halftime, UK
    simply wore State down with tenacious defense and a blistering press. 
    State was forced into 30 turnovers.  Richard Williams said that UK's
    press was much more effective than Arkansas'.  Travis Ford led the way
    with 17 points, all in the second half.  Rhodes turned in another solid
    performance netting 10 or so and pulling down about 8 boards.  Another
    plus was Florida losing Saturday at Alabama.  This pulls UK within a
    game of the Gators with Florida still having to come to Rupp.
    
    - Rope

    Tennessee received a HUGE verbal commitment from Peyton Manning QB out
    of New Orleans yesterday.  Most recruiting experts say Manning is one
    of the top 2 QB prospects in the country.  For those that may not know,
    his father is Archie Manning.  Peyton was recruited by most everyone in
    the country.
    
    The rich get richer. :-(
    
    - Rope

	You have to assume Archie had no influence on picking UTenn, since
he is an Ole' Miss grad.


  Cadzilla2

 Peyton said if went to Ole Miss, he'd be a legend before he even did
 anything. He wanted to go somehwere with less pressure on him is my
 take on it.........

 mikey

    Archie had stated that he'd like to see Peyton go to Ole Miss, but it'd
    be his decision.  Peyton was reported to have said yesterday that Ole
    Miss just hasn't had much of a football reputation lately.  What an
    understatement!  
    
    - Rope

    Cats in a real yawner yesterday 91-74 over Auburn.  Game was tied at 40
    at intermission, but UK's superior depth wore down the Tigers.  Tony
    Delk had a good game with 25.  Riddick also looked pretty good scoring
    16 and pulling down 8 boards.
    
    Alabama in Rupp this Wednesday.
    
    UK vs. UMASS Saturday in the Meadowlands. - Should be FUN!  UMASS's
    height and quickness inside could pose multiple problems for UK.
    
    After UMASS, UK had Arkansas and then Syracuse.  Pretty tough week
    upcoming.
    
    - Rope

    Kentucky has the Tide in Rupp tonight.  'Bama is 6-2 in the conference
    and is having a pretty decent year.  Be interesting to see how Andre
    Riddick plays tonight.  Pitino have him an ultimatum last week.  Either
    start showing me something now in your junior year, or you will be
    sitting the end of the bench next year!  Riddick responded Saturday
    with 16 points, 8 boards, and 5 blocked shots!
    
    - Rope

    Kentucky's press wore Alabama down in the second half Wednesday night. 
    Cats go on to win by 15 82-67.  Rhodes paved the way with 23 points,
    Delk had 21, and Riddick had 16 w/ 8 boards, and 5 blocked shots. 
    Riddick so far has answered Pitino's challenge and has stepped up his
    play.  He'll have to have a big game against Camby, Roe and company on
    Sunday.
    
    The matchup that concerns me Sunday w/ UMASS is the inside game.  This
    game along with the Arkansas game next Wednesday will be key indicators
    as to how well the 'Cats will do in March.  I've been really pleased
    with Rodrick Rhodes play of late.  He could have a big game Sunday.
    
    How will UMASS react to UK's pressure defense?  Are they a deep team. 
    Kentucky's had alot of success at wearing teams down in the second half
    this year.  Looks like it'll be a great game.  Lots of neat side
    stories for this one.  Pitino's alma mater, his being very influential
    in getting Calipari the job at UMASS, the NYC connection, etc.
    
    GO CATS - Rope

    Rope:
    
         During the last ten minutes of the first half in the game against
    Cincinnati, UMASS was clearly rattled by Cinci's trapping defense.  It
    wasn't so much full court pressure, but rather quick double teams when
    UMASS crossed midcourt.  Otherwise, Kellogg is pretty cool in the face
    of pressure, and usually can advance the ball against the press.
    
         I'm more concerned about Kellogg and Padilla getting in foul
    trouble trying to chase Delk and Ford.  With Williams out, if either
    of those two foul out, the game is over.
    
         UMASS has to shoot the ball much better than they have in recent
    games to pull out a victory.  Both Roe and Camby have to have solid
    games as well, and UMASS has to be on for the full 40 minutes.
    UMASS could win in a squeaker or Kentucky could run away with it and 
    it wouldn't be close.  I'll say 74-71 UMASS.
    
   
   

    If Rope's strategy is followed by K then I like the matchups and umass'
    chances as they like fast paced games and have shown in both cinci and
    epsecially last night that they can make a lot of quick hoops on
    transisition from full court pressure.
    
    But Kentucky can throw a lot of OFFENSIVE pressure and it's a full days
    work for the umass guard tandem.
    
    I agree umass will prevail but more like 95-93 with inside strength
    finally doing it.  Look for big big game from Roe, Camby I fear will
    fight foul problems.

    Okay, time for my prediction.
    
    	- Dante Bright and Rodrick Rhodes should nullify each other
    
    	- I believe Riddick will play "big" against Camby
    
    	- I'm worried about matching up with Roe - We need to contain him
          and hold him under 20
    
    	- I think UK's guards will exploit UMASS's - UK has been getting
    	  good backup PG play from frosh Anthony Epps - Jeff Sheppard has
    	  proved he's a strong player at 2-G.
    
    I look for UK to win this game down the stretch by a 5-point margin. 
    UMASS may even have the lead at half.  I'm hoping depth plays a big
    part in the second half.  
    
    I believe the only way UMASS can win is if they control the tempo.  UK
    won't let a team back into a game the way Cincinnati does.  If UMASS
    trys to run with UK than I'll predict a double-digit win for the Cats.
    
    Should be a great game!
    
    - Rope

          Well, of the BBreen, Russ, Rope oddsmaking trio, the Rope is
    truly the seer.  In a tough fought b-ball game with Tourney intensity
    the Wildcats emerge victorious 67-64.
    
    Russ

    Great game.  UMASS certainly did what they had to do to put themselves
    in a position to win the game; control the tempo.  They did an
    excellent job of forcing Kentucky to play their style of play.  It was
    a big win for Kentucky in that they proved to themselves that they can
    play a slower tempo game and come out on top.  Some random comments:
    
    - Lou Roe is an excellent post player - UK has nobody down low that can
      stop him defensively.  BTW, Pitino said if Roe could develop a jump
      shot, that he'd be a high 1st round draft pick.
    
    - I was wrong on my prediction of Riddick having a big game.  It was
      Prickett!  Prickett was incredible.  Jared scored 17 points and
      down 15 boards!!!  That was a huge game.  8 were offensive boards.
    
    - One thing I'm extremely pleased with was UK's rebounding.  They tied
      UMASS with 40 boards.  UMASS is so quick inside that it's nice to see
      UK come up with a big effort on the boards.
    
    - Walter McCarty almost single-handedly lost this game for UK in the
      first half.  The 'Cats got the ball down low to him at least 3 times
      at the end of the half, and he either dropped the ball or had it
      forced down his throat!  That kid has got to get stronger.  He's a
      liability at this point.
    
    - Dick Vitale most be an idiot.  He kept saying how he couldn't
      understand Kentucky not rebounding well when they had guys like
      Riddick, McCarty, and Martinez at 6'9, 6'8 6'8.  Duuhhhh Dick, think
      the fact that the guys average 205 pounds has anything to do with
      it????  They simply aren't strong enough.  Although Prickett as he
      showed yesterday has the potential to be a horse on the boards.  He
      collected 17 boards in a SEC game last week.
    
    - Tony Delk had a super game, and kept UK in it down the stretch.  Delk
      kept hitting those 10 foot jumpers in the lane.
    
    Good game.  Both of these teams could have a nice ride in the tourney
    this year.  Next up for Kentucky, #3 Arkansas Wednesday in Rupp. 
    Should be a great matchup.
    
    - Rope

     >> Dick Vitale most be an idiot.  He kept saying how he couldn't
     >> understand Kentucky not rebounding well when they had guys like
     >> Riddick, McCarty, and Martinez at 6'9, 6'8 6'8.  
    
        That sounds like Einstein's Theory Of Relativity compared to Brent
        Musberger's comments at half time with the Minutemen leading by 7 
        points that, "UMass will be making a big mistake if they think that
        this game is over." No kidding, Brent? 

         Geez Rope, no mention of Jeff Brassow off the bench.  I thought
    UMASS did a nice job of pressuring Delk and Ford out in three point
    land and forced them to drive to the key area for short but difficult
    shots on the run.  Delk did hit a fair number of those.  For whatever
    reason, Brassow was able to get open out in three point land and was
    deadly.  It seemed to me that two of his three pointers came just as
    the 35 second clock was winding down .... a demoralizing turn of events
    for a team who has made a nice defensive stand!  Conversely, UMASS lost
    the ball on a couple of 35 second violations, as they had no one who
    could create open shots for themselves!
    
         I was disappointed that Camby was not more of a factor on the
    offensive end.  However he did key the 18-2 first half run with 
    several blocked shots.
    
         I didn't hear any of Pitino's comments after the game, other than
    some obligatory praise for Lou Roe's game.  Did he say anything
    interesting?
    
         A very good college basketball game!
    
    Russ
        

    Russ, you're right, Brassow made a key contribution off the bench. 
    I taped Pitino's comments and will listen to them again tonight.  One
    thing he said that was interesting was that he felt this was the first
    time that UK had beaten UMASS "fair and square".  He mentioned that the
    first game in 1991 UMASS was coming back from a long trip (Hawaii
    maybe?) and were tired coming into Rupp.  The 2nd game of course was on
    a neutral court in the NCAA's w/ the controversial Technical on
    Calipari.
    
    - Rope

    RE: 221
    
         Rope, I think Rick Pitino is being a bit charitable in his "fair
    and square" statement.  True, in 1991 UMASS was coming to Rupp Arena
    straight from the Great Alaska Shootout and could have been a bit
    tired.  The flip side is that they had the benefit of three early
    season games, whereby Kentucky might have only played one game up till
    that point.
    
         In the NCAA the technical was called at an inopportune time, 
    and the momentum seemed to swing, but there was still 5+ minutes in the
    game at that point, and UMASS should have siezed the momentum back.
    
         In either case, if either game had come down to the last seconds
    all tied up, and I were betting man, I would have put my nickel on 
    Mashburn, Pelphrey, Feldhaus and Farmer, and not Jimmy McCoy and
    company.  I think this version of the UMASS Minutemen is a lot closer
    talent wise to Kentucky, than was the '91-92 group.
    
    Russ
        

It looked to me like before Lou Roe kicked the ball out
for the final shot that he had drawn a double-team.
As automatic as he had been in the second half down low,
he probably could have scored and drawn a foul.

dr.a

    I forgot to mention this in my earlier reply.  How 'bout that forearm
    to the head Dante Bright delivered to Prickett?  The Refs obviously
    didn't see it.  It certainly should've been a flagrant foul, and
    possibly an ejection.
    
    - Rope

    Arkansas vs. Kentucky - Rupp Arena Wednesday 8:00 P.M. - ESPN2
    
    Seeing as how I don't have ESPN2, will somebody invite me over to watch
    the game?
    
    - Rope

    I'd invite ya Rope, but I don't get it either!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Where are ya?  Framingham/Natick gets it I think...
    

�    I'd invite ya Rope, but I don't get it either!
    
    Ain't it the truth.

Rupp arena will be seen in CXO c'mon out Rope. 

Jeff

    >> Rupp arena will be seen in CXO c'mon out Rope.
    
    Jeff, any way I can get there by car if I leave from Dayton REAL early
    Wednesday?!
    
    Maybe I should drive to Mass. instead?
    
    Wishing Continental Cable of Dayton would get its act together,
    
    Rope

    Rope, sure come on over. I get ESPN2. Live in Cambridge.
    
    just a warning. they probably shoot Cowpoke fans at the border :-)
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Okay TCM, how 'bout directions from I-70.  Is Cambridge close to
    Columbus?
    
    - Rope

    Go North to I-90 (you can get that near Clevleand,Ithink). Take I-90 East,
    eventually it becomes the Mass. Turnpike. Get off at exit 18 (probalby
    take you about 8-9 hours to get to this point, with this weather more
    like 10-11) which is
    Cambridge/Arlington. after the toll, stay to the right. Go right at the
    fork and get into the left lane. Go over the bridge and go straight
    until you get to Mass. Ave. That will be a majot intersection, lots of
    stores, T stop for Central Square. Keep going straight - you will now
    be on Putnam. At the next traffic light make a left. You will now be on
    Harvard. I am at 345 Harvard St. Apt. 4A.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    CBS just paid millions to televise SEC and Big East football and hoops
    games.

thanks for the info Rope. Should be a good one and yes I'll be watching
it in Worcester MA...just a few blocks for MAC's pad.....If you're really
desperate to see it, I could probably plug in a tape for you on the VCR..

mike

    Thanks for offering to tape it Mike.  I'm fortunate that ::SPORTS
    resident IU fan Mr. Simpson works at my office and has offered to tape
    it for me.  Imagine an IU fan doing a UK fan a favor such as this! 
    What's the world coming to?
    
    - Rope

well if Mr. Simpson were a true buddy he would invite you over to
watch the game.

The Crazy Met

 ok. glad to hear you're all set.........

 mike

�    just a warning. they probably shoot Cowpoke fans at the border :-)
    
    I didn't think guns were allowed in the People's Republic.

border patrol always has guns :-)

The Crazy Met

    Arkansas used a suffocating defense in the 2nd half to beat Kentucky
    90-82 in Rupp Arena.  Kentucky held a 6 point lead at the half and got
    blown out by 14 in the second half.  Once again, the Cats have
    problems against a big physical team.  Jared Prickett turned in his
    second big rebounding game with 17 boards.  Arkansas used the 2-man
    tandem of Scotty Thurman and Corliss Williamson to hurt UK big-time. 
    Thurman lit it up from the outside which opened up the inside in the
    2nd half.
    
    Florida is leading Ole Miss by a bunch in the 2nd half, so UK will fall
    2 games behind the Gators in the SEC East.
    
    :-(,
    
    Rope

    yabbut UK led by 15 at one point.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    > yabbut UK led by 15 at one point.
    
    Last I checked the only point differential that matters is the one at
    the end of the game.
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    The only good thing about the Florida situation is that they still have
    to come to Rupp.  So essentially, they're only a game behind the
    Gators.  BTW, I had Prickett's numbers wrong.  He didn't have 17
    boards, he had 20 to go along with 11 points!  Too bad the rest of the
    team couldn't hit the broad side of a barn last night.  Yes Arkansas
    plays good defense, but not that good!
    
    - Rope

    Rope, did ja catch Pitino's post-game comments?  He sez he's never been
    more disapointed with a team in his life.  He labeled the game "a
    joke".  (BTW, did they *really* miss 30 outa 40 from the 3-point line?)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    But Travis Ford's 3 attempt in last minute may have pulled a win out if
    it dropped.  He's been cold (he was at meadow).

               <<< Note 84.245 by RHETT::KNORR "Carolina Blue" >>>
              -< You cannot win a Title without an inside game. >-

>>    Rope, did ja catch Pitino's post-game comments?  He sez he's never been
>>    more disapointed with a team in his life.  He labeled the game "a
>>    joke".  (BTW, did they *really* miss 30 outa 40 from the 3-point line?)
    
    Chris, I'm not sure about the 3-Point%.  I'll watch the game on tape
    this evening.  All I know is they sounded horrendous in listening to
    the radio broadcast.  Brick after Brick from outside!
    
    re -1
    
    Yep, Ford has been struggling lately from the field.  He's hitting
    around 36% from the 3-Pt line this year compared to >50% last season. 
    Care to guess why the huge drop in shooting %??? - JAMAL MASHBURN!!! 
    Ford's not quick enough to create his own shot; therefore without an
    inside scoring threat, teams can afford to play tough D on Ford.
    
    On the bright side, Pitino says that things are looking great on the
    recruiting front.  He's already inked 6'5 PG Alan Edwards and 6'8 Scott
    Padgett.  Bob Gibbons recently ranked Edwards as the number 23 player
    in the country and Padgett as number 93.  BTW, who did Gibbons rank
    #1??? None other than Jerod Ward 6'8 out of Mississippi who Kentucky is
    still in the running for.  Antoine Walker out of Chicago at 6'8 is also
    on Kentucky's list, and according to sources in Chicago, UK is at the
    top of his list.  It would be an astounding recruiting coup if UK were
    to get both of these inside players.  Forget IU's and UCLA's early
    signees, this would rank as the top class in the country.
    
    - Rope
    
    

Rope, trust me, skip watching the game. 

The Crazy Met

    You don't think it would be good therapy???
    
    - Rope

therapy? you gotta be out of your mind. That would be akin to
ACC Chris watchin UNC's last game of the year for years 1983-1992

The Crazy Met

    I saw Antoine Walker at the Boston Shootout lasted June.  He is one
    hell of a player!
    
    NAZZ

    
    
       Am I the only one who thinks that this Kentucky team isn't 
      at all impressive? They managed to eke out a win against U-
      Mass but didn't look that sharp doing it. And who is their
      "go to" player? Travis Ford? I hope not for their sake. He's
      too easily held in check because of his height and he doesn't 
      have Spud Webb-type quickness to compensate. UK is too thin 
      (literally and figuratively) to make much noise come tourney 
      time. 

    Tommy, the lack of a real "go to" player has been one thing that has
    haunted this years squad.  On the other hand, they have much more
    balance which will reap benefits in the future.  Currently they are
    starting 3 sophomores in Tony Delk, Jared Prickett, and Rodrick Rhodes. 
    That's a scary thought for their opponents the next couple of seasons. 
    This year the loss of 6'11 240 lb Rodney Dent has really hurt.  If they
    get a couple of the recruits I mentioned a couple back, then they will
    be a dominant team the next couple of seasons.
    
    BTW, even without the recruits, they will have 6'9 250 lb Mark Pope in
    the middle next year!  This guys a complete stud.  Pitino was saying
    even before Dent went down that Pope was the best post player they had. 
    Pope is a transfer from Washington, and was the PAC-10 rookie of the
    year 2 years ago.
    
    If they can somehow get more production from Riddick, then I believe
    they can still cause problems in this years tournament.
    
    - Rope
    
    Syracuse tomorrow at 4:00 CBS in Syracuse.  Should be a good game.  I
    look for UK to rebound from the loss to Arkansas and have a solid
    performance against Syracuse.  Look for major intensity out of the
    'Cats. Pitino was one unhappy coach after the loss Wednesday night.
    
    - Rope

Pope's a stiff. He can't run the floor and will be useless in the press except
to lope back upcourt and stand under the hoop ala Mark eaton....Saying he's
your best post up player isn't saying much...He was ROY because the Udub team
was so miserable that the only offense they had was to throw it in to pope and
let him put up the shot....

Metz

    Metz,
    
    I haven't seen him play, but Pitino says he's an excellent
    rebounder/post player.  They need just the size of a person like that
    for the inside game.  Shall be interesting.
    
    - Rope

Dent was considered a possible lottery pick coming into this season.
You lose a guy like that and you're going to look a bit less
impressive.

Ken

    Yep, no doubt about it, the loss of Dent is analogus to IU losing
    Henderson last season.  They're learning to play without him and are
    becoming a better rebounding team.  Lately, their shooting has been
    horrendous; particularly Travis Ford's.
    
    I'm looking forward to next year, but haven't given up hope on this
    season either.
    
    - Rope

  >> Currently they are starting 3 sophomores in Tony Delk, Jared Prickett, 
  >> and Rodrick Rhodes. That's a scary thought for their opponents the next 
  >> couple of seasons. 

     I didn't realize that those three were sophomores. That really is 
     scary. It also explains why in the few games that I've watched them, 
     they didn't really seem to have any discernible floor leader. Alot
     of talent but no real take-charge player. You'd know better than I,
     Rope but Rhodes looks like he'll eventually be that player. He re-
     minds me of Lou Roe when Roe was a soph, an obviously talented player
     with a great inside game who just needs the opportunity and a push to 
     come into his own.     
     

    Rhodes has alot of talent Tommy.  He has the potential to be a 1st-Team
    All-America by his Senior season.  I questioned his commitment to the
    game after last season.  He was in Pitino's dog house for the last
    month of 1993, and many thought he might transfer.  He stuck it out
    however, and has really impressed me this year.  He's much tougher
    mentally and doesn't hang his head when adversity hits.  I guess that
    comes with age and maturity.  The main thing he's had to learn is that
    he has the quickness and ability to take the ball to the hole on any
    defender in the country.  His primary problem last season was being
    content to stand behind the arch and shoot threes.  Pitino told him at
    the beginning of this season that in order for him to reach his
    potential, he had to be a Calbert Cheney type player and drive to the
    basket at every opportunity.  So far, so good.
    
    - Rope

	Good to see that Rick knows where to look when he wants to show
	his players how basketball's SUPPOSED to be played.

tom

    HOW 'BOUT THEM WILDCATS!!!
    
    Folks, I've just witnessed THE GREATEST COMEBACK IN NCAA HISTORY!!! 
    Kentucky made the record books tonight by coming from 31 points down to
    STUN LSU 99-95 in the Pete Maravich Center.  No team in the history of
    Division 1 basketball has ever come back from so great a margin to win
    the game.  Simply amazing.
    
    LSU led in the 2nd half with 15:15 to go by a margin of 68-37.  With
    less than 15 minutes to play in the game Kentucky outscored LSU
    62 -27!!!  UNBELIEVABLE.  If you stayed up and saw the game on ESPN,
    you got your moneys worth.  If you went to sleep thinking UK was out of
    it, than you don't know Kentucky basketball.  UK is never out of any
    game they play.  But what happened tonight defies all logic.  Pitino
    said after the game that at 31 down he called a timeout and told his
    team to just go out there and have pride in the fact that you play for
    KENTUCKY and try to keep the score close.  After the lead was cut to
    ten, Pitino told them to GO FOR IT!
    
    At the 2:22 mark, Kentucky cut LSU's lead to 4 points.  ESPN showed a
    closeup of Dale Brown kneeling on the sideline.  I said in a rather
    loud voice that nearly woke up my three year old - "CHOKE BABY
    CHOKE!!!"
    
    More later - I gotta get some sleep!
    
    KENTUCKY BASKETBALL - A STEP ABOVE.
    
    - Rope

    
    
    	Yabbut congrats Rope!  I didn't watch the game but when the radion 
    broadcast thisted morning reported what happend I was really impressed.
    
    
    I remain,
    still waiting...
    Kev
    

    Was an outstanding game Kev.  What's most impressive is that this
    comeback was on the road in one of the toughest gyms in the conference. 
    Add the fact that LSU and UK despise each other and it makes it SO
    SWEET!  What's also incredible is that the comeback was all in the 2nd
    half of play.  The were down 31 with a little over 15 minutes to play. 
    Most times when you see a big comeback, it starts in the 1st half. 
    Truly a phenominal game.  LSU will not recover from this one.  What in
    the world do you say to a team that has just lost a 31 point 2nd half
    lead?
    
    This Kentucky team is not the most talented team by a good stretch; 
    however, as is with any Pitino coached team, THEY NEVER GIVE UP.  Makes
    for some real exciting basketball even when you come a little short as
    they did last week against Arkansas and Syracuse (Came back from 15
    down in both games).
    
    - Rope

                     
    I'm assuming that Dale Brown's non-coaching approach had some play into
    this?  To score 62 points in less than 15 minutes you have to convert
    100% on 2-point possessions at a rate of over twice a minute, or on
    3-point possessions at a rate of almost 1.5 times a minute.  That
    should be impossible.  But knowing Dale Brown, with a 31-point lead he 
    would want to continue to rush up court as quickly as possible in order
    to humiliate the opponent...
    
    glenn
    

    Glenn, honestly I'm still in shock and am trying to digest how it
    happened!  UK made 12 3's in the second half but still scored 31 points
    the old fashioned way.  To score 67 points in the 2nd-half after only
    scoring 32 at halftime is phenominal in itself.  LSU did commit alot of
    turnovers during the run; they also didn't convert many FT's.
    
    This is defintely a game I'll watch again on tape.  Pitino said
    afterwards that he'd never seen anything like this in all his years of
    coaching.  Even given Dale Brown's track record, it was still an
    unbelievable comeback.  One thing that hurt LSU was Clarance Cesar
    having to sit down with 4-fouls with about 13 minutes to play.  Ronnie
    Henderson scored 36 points and was uncanny nailing 8 of 13 Threes. 
    Cesar added 32 points.  It's not often that you beat a team when two of
    their guys have over 30 points.
    
    - Rope

    Not to mention having two guys over 30 points and losing!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    This was an inredible comeback!  I watched off and on while "NYPD Blue"
    was on.  At the last commercial, I switched on the basketball game, and
    Kentucky was down 27.  So I watched the end of the show, and turned the
    game back on and UK cut the lead in half.  I kept the clicker silent
    and stayed glued to ESPN.
    
    What happened to LSU is that they have no floor leader.  No one settled
    down the offense.  No one took charge breaking the press.  When LSU
    broke the press, their offense stagnated.  Outside of freshman
    sensation Ronniew Henderson, LSU had no one stepping up to take a shot. 
    Jamie Brandon forced a couple, and threw up a ridiculous runner in the
    lane with LSU down one and a minute left.  Walter McCarty hit a couple
    of big threes, including the one that gave UK the lead.  What's more
    amazing is that Delk and Ford were not at their best.  It was the role
    players like McCarty, Martinez, Brassow (has he got great range or
    what!!!), and some guy named Harrison who carried the day for Kentucky. 
    
    One of the best college games I have ever seen.
    
    NAZZ

	Reminds me of the comment attributed to Bob Knight after Indiana beat
	LSU in the '87 regionals (paraphrased):

		I was really worried when we were down by 14, then I looked
		at the LSU bench and saw Dale Brown, and I knew we were okay.

tom

    Yep, Dale and Bobby probably don't exchange Christmas cards!
    
    To his defense, the wheels just came off last night.  UK got on the
    kind of roll that's rarely seen and just clobbered 'em the last part of
    the 2nd-half.  As NAZZ stated previously, LSU didn't really have a "Go
    To" guy at the end of the game.  Pitino stated after the game that when
    UK got to within 10 he knew the game was theirs.  He said he could see
    in LSU's players eyes fatigue and mental exhaustion.  Personally I
    thought once they got it to 10 that they had spent too much emotionally
    and physically to get over the final hump.  Glad I was wrong.
    
    - Rope

	Heard on the radio that the Kaintuck comeback was the 2nd best in
	NCAAs, not the best.  Sometime back in 1950 or so Duke came back
	from 32 points to beat Tulane.  Still a great effort Kentucky though.

	Kevin

 Cmon Rope, you're being too generous in defense of Dale Brown. The wheels
 have come off him many more times than just the other night. The man can
 recruit and waste talent with the best of them. He's right up there with
 Dean and Thompson when it comes to getting the least out the talent he
 has at his disposal.

 mike

    Yea Mike, I think you're right!  I was thinking last night that I'd
    been a little too kind to Dale.  He can motivate the daylights out of a
    team as Tom pointed out, but doesn't appear to be a good game coach
    period.  He's had many teams that have underachieved.  It's easy to
    point out the most recent with Shaq, Jackson, Roberts, etc., so let's
    go back a little bit.  Anyone remember the team he had in 1977-1979
    with Durand Macklin, Dwayne (Spaceman) Scales, etc.?  Macklin and
    Scales were incredible ball players; yet with Brown they went nowhere. 
    Their one claim to fame was pinning one of the two losses UK received
    when they won the national title in 1978 (95-90 in OT).
    
    It was an incredible comeback by UK.  Would it have happened against
    another well-coached opponent?  Who knows.  However, there are FEW
    teams in the country that could've made the comeback UK did even
    against Dale Brown (You can count them on 1 hand).
    
    I only hope they don't get down by 31 again!  I'd rather not go for
    anymore record comebacks!
    
    - Rope

>>       <<< Note 84.272 by CNTROL::CHILDS "I need a Rasberry Lollipop" >>>
>>                      -< IU, Duke, Michigan, Louisville >-
    
    Mike, are these a list of teams that you feel could come back from a
    31-point deficit?  The only one I agree with slightly would be
    Louisville.  Michigan is just too poorly coached; they're used to
    surrenduring huge leads not overcoming them!  It would be difficult for
    IU since they don't normally play a full-court pressure defense.  
    
    It takes several things to come back like that.  First you
    better be able to press full-court and cause some turnovers.  Second
    you have to be able to hit the 3.  Third, you have to be darn lucky! 
    Here are the teams I'd say can come back from a large deficit.
    
    - Kentucky (By virtue of having done it!)
    - Cincinnati (Tenacious pressure defense)
    - Arkansas
    - UNC (Great Athletes, Strong Bench, Good half-court trap)
    
    
    How 'bout some more thoughts on teams with the capability to rebound
    from severe deficits?
    
    - Rope
     
    

yes they are Rope. IU because of their coaching and DUke also but both
may not have the talent this year to pull off the feat. Michigan maybe
poorly coached but they are talented and experienced so in the right 
situation could overcome Fisher's coaching. Louisville is talented
and doesn't have a bad coach either. 

I agree on Arkansas but we all know UNC would cut the lead two and 
Dean would ask "how much time do I have left" catch a T and be gone
or bench his hottest player in order to give his senior more minutes...

mike

    My how quickly folks forget.  Last year UNC trailed FSU by a whopping
    21 points under the 10 minute mark and ended up winning by 7.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Kentucky beat Vandy in Nashville to up their record to 20-5 on the
    season.  This is the first time since 1986 that UK has beaten both
    Vandy and LSU on the road.  Travis Ford led the way with 22 points. 
    Delk had 15, and Rhodes 10.  Andre Riddick was TERRIFIC with 0 points. 
    Riddick is a role player and nothing more.  He was an adequate backup
    for Dent and played well for 5-6 minute stretches.  He is not a
    Division 1 starting center.  Next year he will return to the bench
    where he belongs with the addition of Mark Pope.
    
    On the recruiting front...  UK still leads in the Jerod Ward
    Sweepstakes.  Bob Gibbons and others have UK ahead of the pack. 
    According to Gibbons, Ward is the best player in the country.  At 6'9
    and the ability to shoot from the outside, he'd be a natural in
    Lexington.  According to Basketball Times, UK is also in the lead for
    Antoine Walker out of Chicago.  Walker is 6'9.  UK is also on Samaki
    Walker's list out of Columbus, OH.  What is a decent class now with 6'5
    Alan Edwards PG out of Miami and 6'8 Scott Padgett out of Kentucky
    could become the nations best if a couple of the aforementioned players
    commit to Kentucky.
    
    Next up - Tennessee Wednesday in Knoxville.  Should be the final nail
    in the coffin for Wade Houston.  Tennesee needs to revive a once proud
    basketball program.  First step is to get rid of Houston.  Oh for the
    days of Bernard King and Ernie Grunfield!  
    
    - Rope

    THIS IS HORRIBLE.
    
    Being intellectually honest, I must be the first to report this
    late-breaking story.
    
    Travis Ford, Gimel Martinez and Jared Prickett have been suspended for
    tomorrow nights game with Tennessee in Nashville.  The 3 were
    apparently involved in a scheme in which the wrong player went to the
    FT line late in the Vandy game.  As the story goes (Not all details are
    in yet), Martinez went to the line when Riddick was fouled and
    apparently in a separate incident McCarty went to the line when
    Prickett was fouled.  Again details are sketchy so I may have the
    parties mixed up but you get the meaning.  Travis Ford apparently was
    the one mainly responsible for this MESS. 
    
    Both Pitino and Vandy's coach have issued statements that these 2
    incidents had no impact on UK's 8 point victory last Saturday. 
    However, it was wrong and I APPLAUD coach Rick Pitino for taking SWIFT
    disciplinary action against the players.  Pitino apparently first heard
    of the story Sunday and had a team meeting after his radio program last
    night.  On the radio program, he mentioned that he had heard some
    disturbing news concerning the incident from a reporter and that he was
    extremely DISTRESSED over this.  He said that his players WILL NOT act
    in this manner if the report was true and that there would be severe
    repercussions.
    
    On one of the plays, Dan Hall, a Vandy player pointed out to the
    official that the wrong player was at the line.  The official told him
    that the right player was on the line and that was that.  GEEZ,
    shouldn't the officials have some control over the game!  It was
    terribly wrong for Travis Ford to instigate this (apparently), but the
    officials should know how was fouled.
    
    More later,
    
    - ROPE

    I disagree entirely on this.  Or is this a joke, Rope?  It's up to the
    refs to put the right man on the line and if the ref's a little slow
    then c'est la vie.
    
    This is part of sports, belongs in sports just like kicking the ball
    out on a tag, stealing home - where does this "ethics" stop.
    
    next they won't tally points but have judges decide the contest on how
    they played the game.
    
    erhghh

> next they won't tally points but have judges decide the contest on how
> they played the game.
    
yabbut then the Lakers would have beaten the Celtics every time, you
wouldn't have liked that :-)

The Crazy Met

    Chris, write it down.  It will take a performance like the one in
    Louisiana last week to get past Tennessee tomorrow night.  Pitino has
    suspended 2 starters and his top reserve.  This after losing Dent for
    the season.  The lineup now looks like this:
    
    C - Andre Riddick       - Junior
    F - Walter McCarty      - Freshman
    F - Rodrick Rhodes      - Sophomore
    G - Anthony Epps        - Freshman
    G - Tony Delk           - Sophomore
    
    RESERVES:
    
    F - Jeff Brassow 6'5 Senior
    G - Jeff Sheppard 6'4 Freshman
    G - Chriss Harrison 6'2 Junior
    
    Please tell, what happens if by chance one of the big men get in foul
    trouble?  They have 3 RESERVES with the tallest being Brassow at 6'5!!! 
    Sheppard is a freshman who hasn't played much, and Harrison is well,
    Harrison.  Tennessee will have to choke the way LSU did to lose this
    one.  This game should be easily won by attrition if nothing else.
    
    Again, I applaud Pitino for taking the action to suspend the players. 
    I'm sure every team has tried this.  That however doesn't make it
    right.  They got caught, and must face the music.
    
    - Proud of Coach Pitino (This might send him to the NBA! HAW!),
    
    Rope

�stealing home 
    
    Since when is stealing home against the rules?  We are talking baseball
    and not street crime here, right?

>>                      <<< Note 84.280 by AKOCOA::BREEN >>>
>>                 -< Rope, tell me please, that's a joke note >-

>>    I disagree entirely on this.  Or is this a joke, Rope?  It's up to the
>>    refs to put the right man on the line and if the ref's a little slow
>>    then c'est la vie.
    
>>    This is part of sports, belongs in sports just like kicking the ball
>>    out on a tag, stealing home - where does this "ethics" stop.
    
>>    next they won't tally points but have judges decide the contest on how
>>    they played the game.
    
>>    erhghh
    
    I'm sure this happens alot in basketball;  I also wish I was joking! 
    Yes, the officials should have caught it.  In fact has I stated
    previously Dan Hall of Vanderbilt brought it to their attention and
    they ignored him.  That is INCOMPETENCE!  I think one reason Pitino was
    so upset could've been because Ford was bragging about it.  Also, it
    just isn't right.  As Tom (IU) Simpson pointed out, it's analagous to a
    football player moving the ball up 2-yards when the ref isn't looking!
    
    Anyway, I'm happy Pitino has taken the action he has.  It speaks
    volumes about the man's integrity.
    
    - Rope
    

    
>>    This is part of sports, belongs in sports just like kicking the ball
>>    out on a tag, stealing home - where does this "ethics" stop.
    
    This is a very sad commentary on sports today.  It may be sports, but
    it certainly isn't sportsmanship.  "Just Win Baby" rings kind of
    hollow.

     >   Since when is stealing home against the rules?  We are talking
     >	baseball and not street crime here, right?
     
    
    My point is where does it stop.  Why do these players have to assist
    the refs in doing their job.  The "stealing home" just popped into my
    mind from a story Joe Dugan used to tell about his final days in bigs
    with the hapless braves under Wilbert Robinson.
    
    In one game they saw a chance to pull a steal of home and begged Wil to
    give the single.  "Uncle" Wil's retort
    
    "We'll win this game fair and square or we won't win at all"
    
    But apparently the Marquess of Queensbury's greatgrandson is running
    college baskteball today

               <<< Note 84.284 by RHETT::KNORR "Carolina Blue" >>>
        -< They're still pulling Mr.Basketball's off the bench! Haw!! >-
    
    
    Chris, please re-read the roster note and tell me how UK is so great! 
    They've got 3 GUARDS COMING OFF THE BENCH!  And I'll check, but I
    believe only 1 of them was a Mr. Basketball!  Doesn't matter if all 3
    were Mr. Basketball's.  A 6'3 guard CAN'T PLAY CENTER!!!
    
    3 RESERVES - All guards - Makes for a long night in Music City.  Add
    the fact that Epps is a freshman point guard who hasn't played many
    minutes and you get the picture.
    
    - Rope

    > Anyway, I'm happy Pitino has taken the action he has.  It speaks
    > volumes about the man's integrity.
    
    Excuse me while I barf all over my LK201.  The only thing this speaks
    volumes about is the man's ability to stroke the media and bait
    referee's for future games that he might just stand a chance of losing.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

�    My point is where does it stop.  
    
    Very simple -- when it goes outside the rules of the game.
    
�Why do these players have to assist
�    the refs in doing their job.  
    
    The refs shouldn't even be there if people played within the rules of
    the game.

               <<< Note 84.289 by RHETT::KNORR "Carolina Blue" >>>
              -< UK will still be a double-digit favorite IMHO. >-

    > Anyway, I'm happy Pitino has taken the action he has.  It speaks
    > volumes about the man's integrity.
    
>>    Excuse me while I barf all over my LK201.  The only thing this speaks
>>    volumes about is the man's ability to stroke the media and bait
>>    referee's for future games that he might just stand a chance of losing.
    
    Chris, this is one of the more inane comments you've made! :-)  You
    can't be serious.  ABSURD.  If you think UK will be a double-digit
    favorite than you know very little about the game.  And less about the
    Tennessee-UK rivalry.
    
    Tell you what.  I'll take any p-name wager or other you'd like to make. 
    No way UK will win by double-digits.  It's hard for me to actually come
    out and predict defeat for my favorite team, but it looks pretty
    certain to me.
    
    - Rope
    

Rope, if there is anything that Crisp is worse about than his apologetics
for Smiffy it is his total and complete lack of courage for standing up
for what he believes in the manner you suggested - and even when UNC is
involved.

The Crazy Met

    How can Pitino be considered to have such integrity?  Shouldn't
    he have known who should have been shooting the free throws?  Most
    coaches do know this.  If so, then why didn't Pitino step in
    immediately?
    
    Frank Mendez
    

                       <<< Note 84.293 by BSS::MENDEZ >>>
                              -< just a question >-

>>    How can Pitino be considered to have such integrity?  Shouldn't
>>    he have known who should have been shooting the free throws?  Most
>>    coaches do know this.  If so, then why didn't Pitino step in
>>    immediately?
    
>>    Frank Mendez
    
    I can't answer that Frank.  I suspect that he didn't see it.  Keep in
    mind that Vandy has the wierdest setup in all of College Basketball in
    respect to where the coaches and teams sit.  They are in the endzone to
    the far right of the basket.  This probably had alot to do with him not
    seeing it.
    
    - Rope
    

This is absurd:

The kids cheated in a minor way.

The refs screwed up royally by not catching it (unbeleivable).

The big-ego, big-image coach is making himslf look good by suspending the kids.

To me the biggest culprits here are the refs, who were so littl into the game 
that they didn't know who was supposed to go to the line.

=Bob=

    Yeah, just when did Rick Pitino obtain this "integrity"?  Was it some
    time after he pulled a Coughlin, telling Providence that yes, he was
    considering the Knicks job, but no, this new extension will now take 
    care of that matter, scouts' honor, but waitaminute, sorry I guess I 
    do like the Knicks' job better after all?  ;-)
    
    glenn
    

    I don't know Bob.  As a fan of UK, I'm disappointed it happened but am
    pleased with the response.  The kids may have cheated in a minor way,
    but they still cheated.  Pitino doesn't tolerate this, and he
    shouldn't.  See, if you let something like this go, than the cheating
    becomes a major offense shortly.  Discipline is the key here.  IMO, it
    has absolutely nothing to do with Pitino's ego.  That is absurd!  His
    ego isn't so big that he would throw a game in the last portion of the
    conference race.  A conference race that has them trailing Florida by 1
    game.
    
    - Rope

how does the SEC tourney work with 2 divisions? what format and how do they
rank the teams??

The Crazy Met

    TCM,
    
    The top team in each division (currently Florida and Arkansas) get
    opening round byes.  I'll have to enter the format later.
    
    - Rope

    Mac,
    	In a purely amateur event such as you are involved in this sort of
    gamemanship has no part.  Or if the refs,umps are working alone, low
    paid etc.  And in the reverse I can recall umping and not calling a
    runner out where the first baseman blocked him from the bag.  Why?
    Because this was softball and if spikes were used he'd have lost his
    foot.  The reverse of the kentucky thing.
    
    	But in college basketball where 90% of the "sport" is fooling the
    refs (fe. Tripucking - that is falling down to simulate offensive
    interference, a tactic perfected by former Notre Dame "great" Kelly
    T) where is the line supposed to be drawn.
    
    	Perhaps analogies cloud this issue.  Trying to take the free throw
    for a lousy ft shooter is as old as the peach basket and if Pitino is
    suspending the three without having clearly and specifically warned
    them not to do this then he's whatever ACC-Chris says he is.
    
    >	The big-ego, big-image coach is making himslf look good by
    >suspending the kids.
    
    Yeh, that.  What he said.
    
    Billte

    So, if people are getting paid (but aren't college programs amateur by
    NCAA decree?) it's OK to cheat?
    
    This is why people are disillusioned with pro sports.

    I'm shocked at these replies.  It's never allright to cheat, NEVER.  As
    I said earlier, it's like moving a football forwards 2 yards while the
    official isn't looking.  Pitino has done the proper thing by suspending
    those involved.
    
    - Rope

	Sending the wrong person to the line because you can get away
	with it is cheating.  It's as simple as that. And getting away
	with it doesn't make it right.  Comparing it to trying to get
	a charging call makes no more sense than comparing scoring in
	figure skating to an out/safe call in baseball, or a weight limit
	ruling in bobsledding.  Of course, this type of logic seems to
	be the "thought(less) du jour" in here today.

	The key point in all of this that no one seems to have noticed is
	that this is KENTUCKY we're talking about.  Cheating's a way of life
	down there, so unless Pitino wants to be spending his free time
	talking to NCAA investigators, he'd better Nip it!  Nip it in the bud!

tom

    And another thing: since Bill Gusic isn't around anymore to defend these 
    blind corrupt incompetent boobs, I guess I will.  Why are the refs the 
    biggest culprits for this minor, honest mistake?  If they get the call 
    right, the important thing, 99% of the time the right kid steps up to 
    take the shots, but maybe this time they weren't paying such close 
    attention and just couldn't remember afterwards who had been fouled 
    (regardless of what the coaches on opposite sides of the court are 
    screaming at them).  A couple of kids cheated, Pitino is grandstanding 
    clear out to the dollar seats, but it's da damn refs' fault. 
    
    There's just far too much whinning in basketball, by both players and
    coaches, pro and college, for me to place the blame at the feet of the 
    officials time and time again (recall that the treatment of the refs 
    is what sparked that Chaney-Calapari incident, and countless other ones...)
    
    glenn
    

    No, they just don't consider it cheating.  Actually for every action on
    the field, legal and illegal, there is a general consensus as to
    whether, with a qualified ref, it is cheating or "smarts".
    
    In fact, in Dugan's Uncle Wilbert story, the gentleman manager had
    gotten fed up with all the "cheating" and was trying to make a point
    but his lack of baseball knowledge betrayed him(*)
    
    So Mac, to use some of your logic.  Is pitching inside (deliberately)
    in baseball count as cheating?  Setting a pick and making it look legal
    when you know it isn't?

probably depends on whether your team is doing it or their opponents.

The Crazy Met

�    So Mac, to use some of your logic.  Is pitching inside (deliberately)
�    in baseball count as cheating?  
    
    I don't think there is anything in baseball's rulebook that prohibits a
    pitcher from throwing an inside pitch (it's called a ball, throw 4 of
    them or hit a batter and the batter advances to firstbase).  However,
    if the umpire thinks it is being thrown with intent to injure, the
    pitcher can be tossed.
    
�Setting a pick and making it look legal
�    when you know it isn't?
    
    If it is something the referee can call a foul on you for doing, yes.

    re. my (*) from .305
    
    Glenn, you are a baseball historian of sorts.  Did Dugan get his facts
    straight?  Could he have been talking about Judge Fuchs?  He used to
    claim the "I didn't room with Ruth, I roomed with his suitcase" as his
    own but the annals attribute it to an earlier roomate.
    
    Poetic license thou art an Irishman

Not Glenn :-) I'm pretty sure that Dugan story is correct. Least that
is the way I heard it.

The Crazy Met

    
>    Glenn, you are a baseball historian of sorts.  Did Dugan get his facts
>    straight?  Could he have been talking about Judge Fuchs?  He used to
>    claim the "I didn't room with Ruth, I roomed with his suitcase" as his
>    own but the annals attribute it to an earlier roomate.
    
    I don't recall the story of Wilbert Robinson considering a steal of
    home to be cheating.  Considering the high frequency of steals of home
    in those days it seems doubtful.  Maybe they wanted to run up the
    score, which would be bad form even today?  Plus, Uncle Wilbert was known 
    for sleeping during the games.  When he was managing the Dodgers with 
    Babe Herman et al they were so pathetic, he didn't have to worry about
    making the other team look so bad as much as the basics like coaxing
    his own players to score instead of pulling off such stunts as leaving
    three men on third on a triple (Herman's).
    
    glenn
    

    I am being very honest and sincere in telling Rope etal that in my day
    if a player had succeeding in taking and making a foulshot for a "wilt"
    type and it had decided the game he would have been honored immensely
    and been a legend in his time.
    
    Anyone contending that it was "cheating" would've been deemed a "figure
    skating lover" or worse.  If you truly disagree and enough do then I
    must be wrong for the first time ever.  But I still wouldn't know where
    to draw the line between this and that tripucking example I used.

�But I still wouldn't know where
�    to draw the line between this and that tripucking example I used.
    
    One is a direct rules violation.  The other is an attempt to garner the
    refs' sympathy.  Neither belong in the sport.

    Tripucking was/is an art form that matured into laimbeering, based
    on years of phelpsing.
    
    MikeL
    

    Mike,
    	Kelly had the pratfall down but Laimbeer patented the frown/look. 
    Kelly perfected it but the technique, I hear, came from a Dean -
    "Basketball Gamesmanship - Gaining the Edge" video

    re: Waugamain defending the referee's
    
    Gee what self-righteous altruism from Waugamain, whose beloved Penn
    State Nittany Lions got one of the most royal shafts in college
    basketball history.
    
    Haw haw haw!!!!
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

>            -< Where was this talk last year right after IU > PSU? >-
>
>    re: Waugamain defending the referee's
>    
>    Gee what self-righteous altruism from Waugamain, whose beloved Penn
>    State Nittany Lions got one of the most royal shafts in college
>    basketball history.
    
    If you recall, ACChris, I defended Mr. Gusic's points on refereeing in
    general to the hilt, and only objected to this one call because it 
    seemed so outrageous as to be indefensible (offensive foul in response
    to a hold on a breakaway lay-up to ice the game).  I dare say that one
    of the worst calls any of us has ever seen should be worthy of comment.
    This is in contrast to your and Dean's view of the referees as some kind 
    of an inferior sub-species, mere peons whose sole purpose in life is 
    to screw up the perfection that would be the natural by-product of the
    sport if left to the great coaches...
    
    glenn
     

    Well Chrisw,
    Will Dean let the underlings romp against vastly overmatched
    ND at the ACC tomorrow evening? Un(derdog)Irish have no chance agin
    monstah UNC; undertalented, unquick,unfast,untall,
    unugly(Montrossugh!@),uncoached(Dean>Mac),unTitled(thanksDigger),
    unrecruited,etc....
    
    Where's the BabyBlue staying this evening..?
    Woe is us....
    
    MikeL
    
    

    I listened to several opinions of the incident tonight including
    Pitino's.  Pitino stated that the "young men" made a mistake and would
    be held accountable.  Life goes on.  He stated that it was not a
    malicious thing they did, they just made an error in judgement.
    
    I find it difficult to understand how anyone could accuse Pitino of
    grandstanding.  That truly is rediculous.  It really doesn't merit
    discussion, but I'm a sucker when it comes to explaining logic when
    illogic abounds.  Truly you don't believe Pitino is willing to trade
    the Eastern Division SEC Title and moving from a potential number 2
    seed in the NCAA to a number 3 or 4 just to get some publicity?  The
    man has plenty of publicity.  He gets enough publicity to keep anyones
    ego stroked for years.  To think otherwise is simply mind boggling. 
    Just doesn't make sense.  Hmmmm, wonder If I've made the point yet. :-)
    
    Pitino ordered the suspensions because what the players did was plain
    wrong.  I suspect also that Rick was embarrassed by the situation. 
    Kentucky is 3 years removed from probation and the University certainly
    needs no further reminding of cheating, etc.  If they had run a clean
    ship than perhaps this would've gone over a bit easier.  I don't know. 
    What's clear however from Pitino's comments is that this sort of action
    will not be tolerated while he's the head coach at UK or anyplace else. 
    Whatever you think of the man, you'd be extremely biased not to
    appreciate the stance he's taken.
    
    - Rope

    Here's a couple other comments on the situation at Kentucky.  
    
    Van Vance the radio voice of the Louisville Cardinals stated he was
    very impressed with Coach Pitino for standing up for his beliefs.  He
    felt the situation was handled professionally.
    
    Chris Collingsworth (of Florida and Bengals Fame) said also that he had
    alot of respect for what Pitino had done.
    
    I've been listening to the radio much of the evening and the consensus
    is that Pitino did the right thing; and it took guts to do it.  
    
    COMMENTARY:
    
    I find it a shame that others don't police themselves in the same
    manner.  You look at a Bob Knight who's been an embarrassment not only
    to IU and the Big 10 but to college athletics in general.  He received
    his first suspension ever from IU just this season.  You take a John
    Cheney who threatens to "kill" someone and the gutless Temple
    administration gives him a one game suspension.  Pitino's stood up and
    given these 3 boys a pretty stiff kick in the pants.  You will never
    see this incident repeated however.  This is the way to run a program. 
    Hopefully others in the NCAA will take notice.
    
    Make all the snide remarks you want about Kentucky's past.  It's all
    out in the open.  No way you can accuse the current administration of
    C.M. Newton and Rick Pitino of not running a clean, honest program.
    
    - Rope

Now Bob,

	You're going down a rathole you reallly don't want to enter.  True,
Knight's only been suspended once by the university (also got suspended for the
chair, but I believe the conference did that).  On the other hand, I'm not sure
I could come up with other occasions when he should have been *suspended*. 
Perhaps you could.

	We'll contrast that with Kentucky, where the school was illegally 
paying players for decades, and only 10...no, wait, 7...no, was it 4...no, I 
actually think it was 0 (that's zero, NADA, the big goose egg, etc.) players or
coaches were suspended by the university for cheating.  Of course, I guess 
there's a good reason for that.  Who was going to do it, since the 
administrators were in on the CHEATING from the beginning?

	Pitino's move was a fine gesture, and the right thing to do.  Don't 
diminish it by comparing it to what other schools have done (or should have 
done) in the past.  KY's past just doesn't stand up well to that kind of
comparison. 

	But Have A Nice Day!

tom

    Thanks guys, all this "Objective" analysis has helped me enjoy the
    evening.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    >> We'll contrast that with Kentucky, where the school was illegally
    >> paying players for decades ... Who was going to do it, since the
    >> administrators were in on the CHEATING from the beginning?
    
    UK's past problems are well documented as is my stance.  They're an easy 
    target and I understand when attention is to be deflected away from another
    issue that this is likely to be dredged up ad nauseam.  So be it; we
    reap what we sow.  I would ask though exactly how many decades were
    they paying players, and which administrators were in on the CHEATING
    from the beginning?  Is this documented or hearsay?  I don't recall the
    NCAA ever mentioning this in any probe.  They stated there was a "lack
    of institutional control", but that's a far cry from administrators
    cheating from the beginning. :-)
    
    Now as far as coach Knight goes, I probably given enough time can come
    up with more than one feasible occasion in which IU should've suspended
    him.  That would serve no useful purpose however.  Suffice to say, he's
    been a MAJOR embarrassment to the university and the Big 10.  One
    comment on the chair throwing incident.
    
    Yes, the conference suspended him for this one.  The administration 
    didn't have the guts to touch him at the time.  The university president 
    at the time, Dr. John W. Ryan if memory serves, was the biggest Bob Knight 
    apologist in the state of Indiana.  Knight could have done anything
    short of committing homicide with Ryan around and gotten away with it. 
    The fact he was given only a one-game suspension after this black-eye
    is an indictment of the Big 10 as well as Ryan's administration while
    at IU.
    
    - Rope

    More on the GROWING SCANDAL!!! - I like that!
    
    Pitino stated this evening that the kids made a great mistake in
    judgement.  He went on to say "Not only did they make the mistake, but
    they made a joke of it as well".  This in reference to Travis Ford
    bragging about the substitutions to a reporter after the game.  CNN had
    this on tape this evening.  
    
    Pitino probably was most upset with Ford bragging about this
    afterwards.  I think he handled it well.  Will be fascinating to see
    how well they play with 8 players tonight; 5 of them being guards!
    
    - Rope

    How nice it is for me to be able to take the high road during this
    Kaintucky vs. IU cat fight.
    
    See, I'm a longstanding supporter of a coach who doesn't cheat *or*
    embarass himself and his university.
    
    Haw!!!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I am continually amazed at people who insist on taking cheap shots at
    Pitino.  He came into Kentucky and completely turned that program
    around, instilling its first bit of integrity EVER.  You might not like
    his style, his haircut, or his suits, but that should in no way cloud
    your perception of the remarkable job he did in completely rebuilding a
    tarnished, no disgraced program and establishing it quickly as a
    national powerhouse with scruples.  
    
    Pitino is doing things the right way at Kentucky for the first time
    ever.  I always was a Louisville supporter and a Wildcat hater, but
    Pitino has forced me to root for both schools.
    
    NAZZ

    I suppose if the players were bragging about the cheating later that
    Pitino did the right thing.  I can't fault him for this decision. 
    Still, when I hear how poorly the officials executed in letting these
    obvious violations get out of hand I'm very skeptical that Pitino 
    "saw nothing, knew nothing" as the game was ongoing.  Because
    everyone's so adamant about the officials' culpability in all this, 
    just for once in a big tournament game I'd love to see one of these 
    guys flag a player for a T for delay of game and the bench a T for
    unsportsmanlike behavior.  "Integrity" would go right out the window 
    and coaches, players, and partisan fans alike would be squealing like 
    stuck peegs.  But that'd be the "taking of control" that everybody 
    wants to see.  Come to think of it, we already saw something like this
    when Pete Pavia courageously laid down the law with Dean and sent him 
    into that demonstration of geekery, and look at what the response was...
    
    >      -< BTW Waugamain: Yer a hypocrite of the highest order. >-
    
    Stuff it, Chris.  You've taken a non-inflammatory discussion of how 
    officials, as human beings, can be psychologically intimidated by 
    these powerful whining windbags like Knight and Smith (I wasn't even
    upset so much as amused by the call in the Penn State game, and said 
    so) as a contradiction to my latest statement that there's too much 
    whining by coaches in college basketball.  Please help me out with 
    this supposed hypocrisy...
    
    glenn

    Chris,
    	(This is one time, one time only)

    	Dean would have stood by his players and defended them against this
    alleged cheating.  Would have explained to the ignorant that it was not
    cheating but common gamesmanship, practiced time immemorial by smart
    players and never expressly forbidden by him.

    	He would have taken the blame for not expressly forbidding it if he
    agreed that the modern tone of polictical correctness in athletics have
    outmoded this and perhaps other types of gamesmanship and assurred all
    that it would not occur again.

    	I have rooted against Dean since the days of the 4 corners but he
    would have acted with 10 times more class than that phony Pitino who by
    this dishonest stunt has lost my interest (he should go back to nba
    anyway).

    	Of course Dean doesn't have any players smart enough to pull the
    switch off.

    The problem I have is Ford did not consider what he did wrong.  If not
    the majority, a great many fans would agree with Travis.  By Pitino's
    action he has condemned Ford and if he must condemn he himself should
    take the blame.

    But I'll be a big Travis Ford fan from here on in so Rope your stuck
    with a UK fan by association.

    billte
    

    re: bill
    
    Dean is so clean he squeaks.  He goes so far as to virgorously prevent
    fans at the Dean Dome from waving their arms to distract an opposing
    free throw shooter!
    
    I've seen countless teams try to switch foul shooters.  I've never seen
    a Carolina player try it.  
    
    'Nuf said.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Chris,
    	I was apologizing to the rest of the noters.
    
    >	  I've seen countless teams try to switch foul shooters. 
    
    Agreed.  So, we ask, what's the big deal.
    
    And Chris, I agree that is not a Dean type of tactic and he probably
    has forbade it and similar expressly. Pitino obviously did not.
    
    My point was in a similar hypothetical situation Dean would have backed
    and defended the player.  That was what I wanted your comment on.

    >> But I'll bee a big Travis Ford fan from here on in so Rope your
    >> stuck with a UK fan by association.
    
    Anyway we can get 'em Bill!  Welcome aboard!
    
    I do disagree with your take on Pitino.  Again most people I've heard
    comment on the situation stand behind Pitino 100%.  It's a pretty cut
    and dried situation.  Players cheated, bragged about it afterwards to a
    TV station no less, and were suspended 1 game.  Case closed.  Again,
    call Pitino what you will, but the man is no dummy.  He isn't in the
    habit of throwing regular season games.  The man has absolutely nothing
    to prove to anybody and needs more publicity like he needs a hole in
    the head!
    
    - Rope
    
    

    The SEC offices severely admonished the officials of the Vandy game
    yesterday afternoon after reviewing tape of the game.  The ultimate
    responsibility has to lie with the officials.  Get this, one of the
    officials was the highly respected DON RUTLEDGE!  Rutledge has
    officiated several FINAL FOURS!!!  What a horrible job of officiating. 
    I don't have the full text from the SEC yet, but as long as we're
    in a suspending kind of mood, why not give the officials a 1 game
    break.
    
    - Rope

>    I don't have the full text from the SEC yet, but as long as we're
>    in a suspending kind of mood, why not give the officials a 1 game
>    break.
    
    I agree.  I mean everyone in the building saw what these clever kids
    were up to, except Rick Pitino of course...
    
    glenn
    

	I'm confused.  Are you talking about deflecting attention away
	from your "out of the blue" attack of Knight by mentioning
	Kentucky's history of cheating, or your attempt to put a spin
	on this Kentucky trangression (which, as I've said, Pitino
	handled well) by attacking Knight?

	Likewise, if we both put our energies to it, I'd bet I'll do a 
	better job of coming up with evidence of administration knowledge
	of Kentucky's cheating than you'll do of coming up with an
	instance of behavior on the part of Knight that would warrant, but
	didn't result in, suspension.  But that's hardly the point.   The 
        fact is that you and I *BOTH* support programs that are easy 
	targets.  I don't think you should be surprised when a cheap, easy 
	shot at Indiana gets returned.

	A serious question, though.  Given that the penalty in college
	basketball for threatening to KILL another coach, and threatening
	to "kick his ***" the next time you see him, is a one-game
	suspension, what exactly should be the penalty for throwing a chair?
	And should the penalty for throwing a chair be different than the
	penalty for throwing a coat, or throwing a towel?  My personal answer
	to the second question is Yes, but at the time of that incident
	it wasn't a position that was easy to defend against people who
	thought the answer was no.

	And, by the way, John Ryan was an idiot.  Much like those KY
	administrators you (incredibly) think didn't know what was going
	on.  The decision to do nothing and leave it up to the conference
	was stupid.

tom

    You obviously haven't seen tape of the play huh Glenn?  Your bias
    against Pitino is severely clouding your vision IMO.  Just come right
    out and say you can't stand the man for whatever reason; accusing
    Pitino of having any part in this is just a bit careless.
    
    Again, you must remember the man has rebuilt this program from ASHES. 
    His detractors I'm quite sure are just slightly jealous at his success. 
    The program was condemned by the NCAA for various forms of cheating. 
    UK needs no association with the term ever again, and with Pitino and
    Newton at the helm there won't be.
    
    - Rope

	Oops.

	.333 should be  Re: .322, of course.

tom

    >> I'm confused.  Are you talking about deflecting attention away
    >> from your "out of the blue" attack of Knight ...
    
    I'd hardly call it an attack on Knight.  Perhaps a slap on the wrist,
    but not an attack. :-)  I was simply pointing out how other
    University's had handled adverse situations in the past with their
    coaches.  Anytime you mention "adverse situation" and "coach" in the
    same breath, Bob Knight comes to mind like it or not.  The Chaney
    incident was easy being only 2 weeks old.
    
    >> A serious question though.  Given that the penalty in college
    >> basketball for threatening to KILL another coach, and threatening
    >> to "kick his ***" the next time you see him, is a one-game
    >> suspension, what exactly should be the penalty for throwing a
    >> chair...
    
    Well, unfortunately it's not a penalty from college basketball in the
    Chaney incident, rather from the spineless administration of Temple. 
    I don't agree with it.  IMO, it should've been greater.  The point in
    the Knight case is that the IU administration turned a deaf ear to it
    and cowardly placed the burden on the Big 10 to handle it.
    
    >> And, by the way, John Ryan was an idiot ...
    
    We agree.  Unfortunately, he and Bob Knight were bosom buddies.
    
    - Rope

>    You obviously haven't seen tape of the play huh Glenn?  Your bias
>    against Pitino is severely clouding your vision IMO.  Just come right
>    out and say you can't stand the man for whatever reason; accusing
>    Pitino of having any part in this is just a bit careless.
    
    No, Rope, what object to is the kind of coach- and team-worship that 
    leads an intelligent person such as yourself to make a statement like 
    "the ultimate responsibility has to lie with the officials".  You've 
    condemned the cheating, but it wasn't the officials who cheated, 
    allowed kids to cheat, didn't prevent kids from cheating, or whatever
    else might be the truth of the matter of why these Kentucky kids did
    what they did.  The officials are only responsible for the minor 
    technical mistakes they made, not the issue-- cheating-- and yet 
    you're calling for their suspension!  It's the usual response: praise 
    the coach as the shining beacon of virtue, downplay the role of the
    program or the kids by chalking it up as a lesson learned, and
    excoriating those incompetent refs who are the real culprits...  
    
    glenn
    

    Glenn, I didn't mean to imply that the officials should be held more
    accountable in this situation.  Certainly not.  The players are much
    more accountable and have been treated as such.  My sticking point was
    the personal attacks on Pitino which IMO have no merit whatsoever. 
    Again, I could care less if people like him or not, but to try and
    implicate him in some sort of bizarre master plan to bring more
    attention to himself is ludicrous.  
    
    The officials also need to take part of the blame.  Again, the players
    are at fault for taking advantage of the officials mistake.  It was a
    grievous error on the officials part though.  This was certainly a
    correctable error and not a judgement call.  The fact that it happened
    twice in the game is sad.  
    
    - Rope

    Somehow this:
    
�    Glenn, I didn't mean to imply that the officials should be held more
�    accountable in this situation.  Certainly not.  
    
    Doesn't jive with this:
    
�    The officials also need to take part of the blame.  

    Gimme a chance Mac, my synapses are misfiring!
    
     - Rope

    I'd like to make a few points:
    
        - 99% of all coaches are always aware of what's going on during
          the course of a game. This is to say that when your team is
          on the receiving end of a whistle and a free throw results the
          coach KNOWS who is going to the line. What am I saying? I'm
          saying that Pitino KNEW who was fouled and WHO should be
          attempting the free throws. He knew who was the better foul shooter
          so he kept quiet. This is conjecture on my part but if Pitino is
          so revered as a great coach then he must be assumed to know the 
          particulars. I've done the same. If in my opinion a ref has made
          a bad call ir judgement in my favor I'm keeping quiet.
    
        - Aren't there three refs for all Divison I games? You mean to tell
          me that three pairs of eyes couldn't figure out who was fouled?
          If the refs had been doing their job then none of this would have
          happened.
    
        - Travis Ford et al who were part of this incident may have tried
          this in the past but with no success. A lot of players try it. When
          it worked for the first time in this game the rest of the KY
          players caught on. Pitino should have caught on when it happened
          a second time.
    
        - Finally, what else could Pitino do but suspend the players? He
          had no other option. He's got a "big time coach" reputation to
          uphold and he did the obvious. This does not mean that he didn't
          know what was going on at the time. I believe this was a
          correctable error that Pitino AND HIS STAFF could have corrected
          during the game.
    
          Let's not canonize Pitino for his suspending of these players.
    
    Maj 

    Watching Rope crumble under pressure just might be the perfect
    preparation for tonight's Tonya vs. Kerrigan battle royale.
    
    Haw!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Nah,
    Rope's admittance of a unintended faux pas > abject denial.
    
    MikeL
     

    I remain standing above the fray!
    
    - Rope
    
    PS - There will be a pretty interesting game tonight!  I'm actually
    getting pumped to see how they do with 8 players 5 of which are guards.

    >>  I'm saying that Pitino KNEW who was fouled and WHO should be
    >> attempting the free throws.
    
    Wow.  Gotta hand it to you.  You're infinetly more talented than I at
    reading minds.  I rarely KNOW what another person is thinking.  I
    sometimes am pretty confident, but not to this extreme.
    
    Let's look at the facts.  Have you seen the replay on TV?   I have, and
    from the replay it's difficult to tell who actually got fouled because
    there are two UK players and 3 Vandy players in about a 3 square-foot
    area.  Point number 2.  THE BENCHES IN COMMODORE STADIUM ARE IN THE
    CORNER ENDZONES.  Not a good vantage point at all if you've ever seen
    them.  Geez, I also wonder if coach Pitino may have been talking to
    another player or coach about strategy, etc. at the time it happened? 
    Nah, too much of a coincedence.
    
    YAWN......
    
    - Rope

>    Let's look at the facts.  Have you seen the replay on TV?   I have, and
>    from the replay it's difficult to tell who actually got fouled because
>    there are two UK players and 3 Vandy players in about a 3 square-foot
>    area.  Point number 2.  THE BENCHES IN COMMODORE STADIUM ARE IN THE
>    CORNER ENDZONES.  Not a good vantage point at all if you've ever seen
>    them.  Geez, I also wonder if coach Pitino may have been talking to
>    another player or coach about strategy, etc. at the time it happened? 
>    Nah, too much of a coincedence.

     Point 1: Questionable, but definately the officials should have made
     this clear.

     Point 2: The best point made here.  The benches at Vanderbilt are far
     more removed from the action that in any other Division I arena in the
     U.S.  The last time the SEC tournament was held in Nashville, there were
     numerous complaints about the bench locations, and we in Georgia hear
     the same thing from Hugh Durham every year.

     Point 3: Very unlikely, and not at all reflected by Pitino's comments,
     nor by anyone else.  Very rarely during the course of play are coaches
     not paying attention to what is happening n the court.

>    Let's look at the facts.  Have you seen the replay on TV?   I have, and
>    from the replay it's difficult to tell who actually got fouled because
>    there are two UK players and 3 Vandy players in about a 3 square-foot
>    area.
    
    Yeah, contrary to your original assumption, Rope, I did see the replays
    of the sequences as broadcast by ESPN last night, and I thought the
    mistakes were fairly innocent.  Which is why I couldn't understand the
    public flogging of the officials over such a minor thing.  If this 
    thing doesn't get blown up by the UK players bragging about it, and 
    the suspensions, nobody thinks anything of it.  If the SEC really 
    did issue a serious reprimand to the refs, and I'm one of them
    (especially that respected veteran guy), I seriously think about 
    handing in my whistle if that's the way they do business in that 
    conference.  Just one more example of the coaches running the asylum...
    
    glenn
     

    Y'know Rope,
    
    Big-time college basketball is real intense and Pitino is an intense 
    coach so wouldn't ya think that he would be in on all the action and
    sense what was going on?
    
    I've seen the replay and I'll agree that it's a bit difficult to tell
    who was fouled....but Pitino was there..not watching it on TV so
    wouldn't it be possible for him to get a better angle?
    
    >>>I also wonder if coach Pitino may have been talking to
    >>>another player or coach about strategy, etc. at the time it
    >>>happened?
    
    Yeah that's possible...but very rarely does he take his eyes off the
    court. He's always the "virtual 6th man" for his team.
    
    Still hard to swallow that he may not have realized at the time that
    his team was benefitting from some poor officiating. 
    
    That's basically what I'm saying.
    
    Maj_who_has_been_on_both_sides_of_good_and_bad_calls_for_26_years

    Glenn, I agree that if Ford hadn't bragged to the press, perhaps not
    much would've have come of it.  I'll try to post the SEC comment on the
    officials.  They basically said that the officials should've been in
    control of the game and that it was certainly a correctable error.  Add
    the fact that Dan Hall of Vanderbilt told an official that the wrong
    guy was at the line and it looks real bad for them.
    
    - Rope

    re .348
    
    Maybe I'm giving Pitino more credit than is due, but I think he would
    admit it based on past actions.  I'm going to try and call the radio
    show next week and ask him the question.  If I get through, it'll be
    intersting to hear his reply.
    
    - Rope

    Q: Would Rick Pitino suspend three (3) players if his next game were
       against, say, Florida or Arkansas?
    
    A: Haw haw haw!!!!
    
    BTW Rope, why note axe this question when you get through on Ricky's
    radio show.  I'm oh-so-sure you'll get a straight answer.  [Not!]
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>>    Q: Would Rick Pitino suspend three (3) players if his next game were
>>       against, say, Florida or Arkansas?
    
>>    A: Haw haw haw!!!!
    
  Interesting situation. But I think we've seen this play out before..
    
    Q: Would StBobby Bowden suspend Tamarick Turnover if his nexted game
    were against, say  Notre Dame instead of Maryland?
    
    A. Haw haw haw!!!
    
    In others words,.. WTFC
    
    MikeL
    

    Great game last night.  Hmmm, not sure how good it was for Vol fans
    but...  UK trailed by 14 points in the second half but pulled it out. 
    A friend of mine taped it for me; can't wait to watch it tonight. 
    Pitino told the team that they needed to play aggressive but smart
    defense.  In other words they had to be extremely careful with only 3
    front-line players!  UK was down by 7 at half-time and Pitino told them
    in the locker room to give him just 5 more minutes and at the 15
    minute mark of the 2nd half, they would start playing KENTUCKY
    BASKETBALL!  The problem was UT wasn't tired and was bringing in fresh
    subs, etc.  UK started to press w/ 15 to play because up to that time
    they had been real careful and not committed many fouls, etc.  McCarty
    and Riddick and Rhodes finished the game with 4 a piece!
    
    Big game out of Delk and Riddick.  Delk scored 23 and Riddick added 16
    with 8 boards.  Riddick went up against UT's 7'0 Hamer who scored 18. 
    Anthony Epps also had a very credible game subbing for Travis Ford w/ 8
    points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists, and 2 steals in 20 minutes or so. 
    Brassow was steady once again with 11 points.  Rhodes had 13 points all
    coming from the FT line ( I believe he was the one actually fouled
    too!).  Rhodes was 13-16 from the line with many coming late in the
    game when they really needed them.
    
    This could be a thing which really gives this young UK team momentum
    heading down the stretch.  Only time will tell.
    
    - Rope

    > This could be a thing which really gives this young UK team momentum
    > heading down the stretch.
    
    Yea, and prove what a master media-manipulator Pitino is, not to
    mention master psychologist.
    
    Yuk.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    How well has Tennesee been doing since that early disaster (Was it
    Syracuse).?
    
    Surprised that Kentucky depth isn't stronger?  I too thought Pitino may
    have felt he had quality replacements worthy of a shot.
    
    These 3 point offenses are a lot like the run and shoot in football. 
    Impressive at times but not completely reliable.

    Does 7 = a double digit victory in ACChris math?

    >> Does 7 - a double digit victory in ACChris math?
    
    Good question Mac!  Actually though it was only a 4-point victory.

>>    Surprised that Kentucky depth isn't stronger?  I too thought Pitino may
>>    have felt he had quality replacements worthy of a shot.
    
    At the start of the season, Kentucky had PLENTY of depth Bill.  Examine
    closely what they were missing for the Tennessee game.
    
    6'11  Rodney Dent     - (INJURED)
    6'9   Jared Prickett  - (SUSPENDED)
    6'8   Gimel Martinez  - (SUSPENDED)
    5'9   Travis Ford     - (SUSPENDED)
    
    With the big men mentioned above, UK had incredible depth up front to
    start the season with.  For the UT game they were left with just 3 big
    men in Prickett, Rhodes, and McCarty.  UK started the season with 12
    scholarship players and played the UT game with 8, 5 being guards.
    
    - Rope
    

    Was watching 'Around the Rim' last night with the Dook geek John
    Feinstein and it looks like I'm gonna have to reverse my opinion on
    Pitino.
    
    The pocket-faced Feinstein sez Pitino is Guilty of grandstanding in a
    big way and couldn't believe the hypocrisy of him suspending
    players for a game against anemic Tennessee.
    
    Too bad, cause I really thought I was right.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    C'mon Chris, Feinstein has as much credibility as a sack of potatoes!
    
    - Rope

    Rope, you have to remember the ACChris definition of credibility -- if
    he agrees with me he's credible.

    Kentucky went on an 18-0 run at the start of the 2nd half to crush
    Georgia in Rupp Saturday, avenging a 4 point OT loss earlier in the
    season.  Even without Travis Ford who left with a hamstring injury in
    the 1st half, Kentucky cruised.  UK's sophomore studs Delk and Rhodes
    led UK with 22 and 15 points apiece.  Sophomore forward Jared Prickett
    snared 7 rebounds.
    
    Florida was upset by Vandy Saturday which allowed UK to draw even in
    the SEC East race.  This sets up a showdown in Rupp Wednesday for the
    East Division lead.  If UK wins this one, they wrap it up having to
    playa the hapless Gamecocks on Saturday.
    
    - Rope

    Wade Houston announced he's resigning from Tennessee after the season. 
    Houston had been abysmal in his 5 years at UT.  Tennessee has lost 24
    out of their last 30 SEC games.  Houston was never able to build
    anything around his Superstar son, Alan Houston who graduated last
    year.  Credit Wade with the wisdom to step down rather than be fired at
    the end of the season.
    
    I look for Ralph Willard of Western Kentucky to get this job.
    
    - Rope

    Kentucky is in the drivers seat for the SEC Eastern Division Title
    after last nights win over Florida.  UK proved once again, that they
    are NEVER out of a game.  Florida held a 19 point lead during the 1st
    half.  Once again, Tony Delk led the way with 18 points.  The future
    looks real bright for this team.  Rhodes, Delk, Prickett, and McCarty
    are looking great.  Nice thing is, they're all sophomores!
    
    I'm sure glad Pitino doesn't pull the starters when UK falls behind by
    > 10!
    
    - Rope

    UK dropped one they should've won Saturday to the Gamecocks.  Congrats
    to Eddie Fogler and his troops.  Fogler's one of the best coaches in
    the business.  Still don't understand why he left Vandy for USC
    however.
    
    Rodrick Rhodes paced UK with 24 points.  I believe Delk was 2nd w/ 14
    or so.  Once again, UK's nemesis was the inside game or lack thereof.
    
    I'll be pretty pleased with a Sweet 16 appearance this year.  Wouldn't
    be surprised to see them bow out in the 2nd round either.  I'm pretty
    pleased with a 23-6 record considering Dent's injury.
    
    - Rope

    This is great. We have Crisp in the ACC note moaning that UNC will be
    out of the tournament early this year. We have Rope in this note
    pooh-poohing UK's chances. Then we got MikeH in the Suns note pulling
    the same stunt with his team.
    Now we obviously need someone to start knocking  the Bruins chances and
    to make it complete one of those Cowboy fans needs to start bitching
    that the salary cap will guarantee that the Cowboys won't even make it
    to the Super Bowl next year.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

�    This is great. We have Crisp in the ACC note moaning that UNC will be
�    out of the tournament early this year. We have Rope in this note
�    pooh-poohing UK's chances. Then we got MikeH in the Suns note pulling
�    the same stunt with his team.
    
    You left out the Rangers and Knicks fans.

    Fantastic weekend for Kentucky.  They beat Mississippi State, Arkansas
    and Florida en route to their 3rd consecutive SEC Title.  In Arkansas
    and Florida, they beat a 1 and 3 seed for the upcoming NCAA tourney. 
    More on the games tomorrow.
    
    What's mind boggling is how UK was given a 3 seed and not a 2.  Not
    that it matters a lot, but I can't believe they weren't given a higher
    seed.  They knocked off the top team in the country Saturday, and
    defeated a top 15 team today.  They've already beaten 2 of the 4 number
    2 seeds in UMASS and Arizona on neutral courts.  Overall they were 7-4
    against teams in the top 25, 5-0 on neutral courts.
    
    One silver lining is that they will play Duke more than likely in
    Knoxville if both teams advance as expected.  Figures Duke is only one
    of 2 teams in the entire tourney, the other being Michigan, that
    presents significant matchup problems for UK.  That being a team w/ a
    big guard (Grant Hill and Jalen Rose) and a strong inside game.
    
    More later,
    
    Rope

    Actually, #1 and #2 does not usually matter all that much. Further down
    than that and a #3 can hit a pretty good #6 seed very early on.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Kentucky landed 3 players on the SEC All-Tourney team.  They were
    Travis Ford (Tourney MVP), Tony Delk, and Jeff Brassow.  What do they
    all have in common?  They're all guards!  One thing it takes to win a
    national title is good guard play, and UK certainly has it.  I still
    think they are a big-man away from being a serious title contender
    (Rodney Dent), but if they get past Duke I believe they'll go to the
    Final 4 for a 2nd consecutive year.  No way Purdue will beat UK for a
    trip to the Final 4.  
    
     - Rope

    Big recruiting coup for Kentucky this week.  Picked up a committment
    from 6'8 Guard/Forward Antoine Walker of Chicago.  Walker is a Parade
    Magazine 1st team All-American.  Still in the hunt for Jerod Ward or
    Samaki Walker.
    
     - Rope

    I'm real encouraged after this weekends games about UK's chances in the
    tournament.  In the Arkansas and Florida games, they played the best
    defense I've seen from them all season.  Funny thing is, it was a 2-3
    ZONE!  UK's been forced to a zone because of a lack of big men inside,
    and said zone was suffocating to the Hogs and Gators.  On several
    occasions both Arkansas and Florida couldn't get a shot off by the time
    the shot clock expired.  Offensively in the Arkansas game they could do
    no wrong by hitting a SEC tournament record 16 3-point shots.  Their
    spacing was excellent and they were constantly making the extra pass. 
    Arkansas contrary to popular belief plays very little man-to-man
    pressure defense;  they play alot of half-court zone traps.  When faced
    with a trapping team such as Arkansas, the first pass will always be
    contested.  If you can reverse the ball on the 2nd and 3rd passes than
    you will always find a man open.  UK did this to perfection and it
    probably helped more than a little that the open shots were falling.
    
    I mentioned in an earlier reply that Travis Ford was the Tourney MVP. 
    In the Arkansas game he scored 15 points and dished out 8 assists.
    
    Pitino once again proved that he will discipline any player, any time
    when Rodrick Rhodes was suspended for the 1st game of the tourney
    Friday night against Mississippi State.  Rhodes broke an unspecified
    team rule and was benched.  When asked about the violation, Pitino
    refused comment only stating that if the transgression were repeated
    that Rodrick will have played his last game at Kentucky.  Refreshing.
    
    - Rope

    Rope, be careful. You are beginning to talk about Pitino like someone
    else we know talks about Dean Smith.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Antoine Walker is perfect for Kentucky.  He's a 6-8 forward who can
    rebound, but he also runs the court really well and loves to shoot the
    3-pointer!  He'll fit right in at Kentucky.
    
    I saw him play in the Boston Shootout in 1992 (as a sophomore) and last
    year as a junior.  In 1992, on the same team with Chris Collins (Duke),
    Rashard Griffith (Wisconsin), and Ryan Hoover (Notre Dame), he averaged 
    13 pts and 8 reb, and shot 4-14 in 3-pointers.  Last year, he averaged
    23.3 pts and 8 reb, and shot 9-26 in 3-pointers.  Yes, he took 26 three
    pointers in just three games!  Like I said, perfect for Pitino!
    
    NAZZ

    That sounds good NAZZ.  I also read in Parade Magazine this weekend
    that Walker can play guard.  With 6'5 PG Alan Edwards and potentially a
    guy like Walker at guard, UK's press would be devastating.
    
    Both Edwards and Walker still need to pass the ACT or SAT.
    
    - Rope

    Well, looks like the recruiting season starts a little early for UK.
    
    I knew Marquette would be a tough game, but not that tough!  Marquette
    was simply dominant defensively.  They did as good a job of shutting
    down Kentucky offensively as any opponent all year.  Marquette was just
    too big and strong inside for Kentucky.  Next year that will change,
    but too much to overcome this season.  Marquette also did a very good
    job of breaking UK's pressure when Tony Miller had the ball.  He's a
    good looking point guard who was 3rd or 4th in the nation with 8.6
    assists/game.
    
    One reason why UK was so poor offensively was Rodrick Rhodes.  He had a
    horrible game.  I don't believe he scored a single point.  Without a
    strong performance from Rhodes, UK can't win.  He was sitting the bench
    the latter part of the game.  Pitino was fed up with him.
    
    - Rope

    Rhodes' horrible numbers 0-9,0-0 0 and boy did he commit some awful
    fouls. Pushes 25 feet from the basket. UK overacheived after losing
    Dent and fooled me into thinking they would get back to the final four
    again.
    
    Delk and his 5 threes were the only offensive bright spot for the
    declawed Cats.

    Losing Dent just hurt too bad.  The Kats pulled within two with 5:00
    minutes to go, in a huge effort, then suddenly had four on Rhodes and
    Mccarthy, the gas ran out and Marq held (much to their credit)...
    
    Next year...
    
    _GSH_

    How 'bout that SEC!!! 2 of the remaining 4 teams from the Conference. 
    Not bad at all.  SEC fans could've told the rest of the country how
    good Florida was, but alas SEC basketball isn't one of the media
    darlings.  Much better to prove it on the court as Florida did in
    beating 2 Big East foes, and Arkansas by beating one of the Big Ten's
    best.
    
    BTW, what has happened thus far just shows how important matchups are
    in basketball.  Kentucky is 4-2 against Final 4 teams!!!  Had the
    selection committee given UK the number 2 seed they deserved, than they
    certainly would've been in the sweet 16.  Don't know if they could get
    past Duke, but it would've been fun trying.  If only UK was in the East
    or West regions :-).
    
    SEC is now 10-2 in the tourney with only 4 teams!  Best in the nation. 
    What's extremely humerous is the great RPI ratings which had the Metro
    ranked 4th in the country and the SEC 8th!  What a joke.  Someone needs
    to take a real CLOSE look at those computer rankings.
    
    - Rope

    Almost forgot to mention Vanderbilt.  The Commodores are in the NIT
    Final 4!
    
    - Rope

    Louisville is apparently the frontrunner for 6'9 Samaki Walker out of
    Columbus, OH.
    
    Kentucky is still in the running for 6'9 Jerod Ward out of Mississippi. 
    Ward was named the National High School Player of the Year this
    weekend.  If UK gets Ward, I'll start planning on several National
    Titles for Kentucky immediately!
    
    - Rope

    The gators are not that good.  The east region turned out to be the
    easiest.  I know BC had a good run but they were not the toughest team
    out there.  And by the way,  Uconn chocked against the gators.
    
    Frank Mendez
    
    I am not a big east fan or a UNC fan.
    

>Uconn chocked against the gators.
    
I don't think that there is a UConn fan alive that would argue this with
you Frank.

The disappointment is tinged with disgust.  Donyell Marshall choked in the
clutch, following a series of chokes all game long, from what I've
heard, and couldn't put at least one in the hole from the charity stripe.

I mean, this is a guy who set a Big East record for consecutive free throws,
and he can't put one of two in?

Choke......


On the bright side, if you can find one, something like this might be the
catalyst to get things going even better next year.   One can only hope.....


'Saw

Florida reminds me a little of the Georgia team that beat No Carolina to
make it into the final four in 83. Scrappy team, no real star, just
playing real well as a team.

Unfortunately, I'd expect similar results and look for them to lose to
Duke.

TTom

            <<< Note 84.384 by HBAHBA::HAAS "The karma ran over my dogma"
    >>>
                               -< blast from the past? >-
    
    Florida reminds me a little of the Georgia team that beat No Carolina
    to make it into the final four in 83. 
    
    ---------
    
    ttom,	
    	I thought it was a big east team they beat to get to final four,
    either St johns or Syracuse.
    
    	This btw is the subject of a Derry trivia question that is still
    unresolved with my hazy recollections.
    
    	I also don't think Georgia has made the final four any other time
    in last 25 years.
    
    Billsmap

Georgia beat No Carolina in 83. Dominique had left the team before the
year. Vern Fleming played for them. Georgia basically beat the Heels with
excellent team speed. If'n you have speed you have a chance to beat the
Heels, who tend to field plodding teams despite a ridiculous level of
talent. The 83 team had Jordan and Perkins from the 82 championship and
the up and coming Brad Daugherty.

They lost to NC State in the semis, while Houston - Hakeem, Clyde, etc -
beat a very strong Louisville team. State went on to history by winning
it all. State beat Ralph Sampson in the Western Regionals in a repeat of
the ACC championship that year.

Georgia may have beaten a BigEast team or 2 on the way but it was the
Heels in the Regional finals.

TTom

� while Houston - Hakeem, Clyde, etc -
� beat a very strong Louisville team. 

I remember this game. It was one of those signpost games that said, "from here
on out, this is how basketball will be played, i.e. above the rim". It was a
true jam-fest.

Bruce

I've always wondered what woulda happened if'n State had to play
Louisville. I mean without Guy Lewis I don't think they'd have beaten
Houston.

TTom

    
    I dunno...
    
    I saw Florida play on the 'Gisland.  When the beat James Madison, I
    said, "bummer almost an upset for JMU, boy do the Gators look bad."
    then when the beat a very hot-looking Penn, I said "what a crappy
    looking winning team that Florida is"
    
    Next round I think to myself, "UConn better not overlook these guys."
    Boom.  Another ugly win.
    
    After BC, forget it - I'm not sure what's up with them, but it's not
    even that they are playing well or on a streak, if you ask me.  They
    just turn their opponents into drooling incompetents.
    
    I'm not betting against 'em anymore
    
    Go Dameathook!
    
    - Sean

    In 1983 Georgia beat Big East champion and number 1 seed St Johns in
    the East Regional semis. Terry Fair was the other star of that team.

    Don't be at all surprised if Florida beats Duke this Saturday.  I've
    seen the Gator's play Kentucky twice this season on the tube.  They are
    for real.  Kentucky beat Florida 2 out of 3 games, but all were
    extremely close.  Florida has outstanding guard play in Dan Cross and
    Craig Brown.  Couple that with a decent inside game with DeClerq and
    Hill and you have a pretty formidable opponent.  Lon Kruger has proved
    to be an excellent game coach.
    
    - Rope

    I was in Albuquerque in 1983 for that Final Four!  I got tickets from a
    scalper for FACE VALUE 15 minutes before the start of the doubleheader
    Saturday.  I was about 10 rows up from the court behind the Louisville
    bench, in the middle of the Louisville fans sections.  The scalpers got
    taken in New Mexico, because scalping is legal there, and everyone was
    selling tickets.  The scalpers also forgot that there simply aren't
    that many people in New Mexico, so the scalpers outnumbered the fans
    outisde the Pit on Saturday.
    
    Anyway, the Georgia - NC State game was god-awful.  Terry Fair, the big
    star for Georgia, couldn't throwe the ball in the ocean.  State's
    guards were having trouble hitting from the outside.  McQueen had a
    strong game, Charles played well, and State made its free throws to win
    by about eight.  The second game was one of the most incredible games
    I've ever seen, with Phi Slamma Jamma vs the Doctors of Dunk.  The
    McCray brothers, Rodney and Scooter, both played well, but Larry
    Micheaux and Akeem dominated the boards and led the break.  Clyde the
    Glide, Michael Young, and Alvin Franklin took off and dlew downcourt
    for slam after slam.  Louisville dunked its way back, but Houston kept
    on flying.  It was an incredible show.  Wisely, Guy Lewis stayed out of
    their way and let Phi Slamma Jama do their thing.  Too bad he decwided
    to try to coach on Monday night, and slowed down the game with seven
    minutes left, up eight.  A truly Dean Smith-inspired decision, and the
    rest is history.
    
    NAZZ

    Rope,maybe you can help me with this one.
    1978-9,team after national championship year had three top 15 recruits.
    Dwight Anderson and Clarence Tillman(Gene Banks' HS teammate) were two.
    I can't remember the third,but I think he transferred.1978-9 was too
    early for Brett Bearup wasn't it? It's not a big deal if you don't
    know.

    David, I'll get back to you on the recruits question.
    
    - Rope

    >> 1978-9, team after national championship year had three top 15
    >> recruits.  Dwight Anderson and Clarenct Tillman<Gene Banks' HS
    >> teammate> were two.  I can't remember the third, but I think he
    >> transferred.  1978-9 was too early for Brett Bearup wasn't it?
    
    David,
    
    The 3 recruits for the 1978-1979 season were Chuck Verderber (highest
    scoring 7.5 ppg as a Junior), Clarence Tillman (very average player),
    and Dwight Anderson (spectacular).
    
    Tillman transferred after his freshman season to I believe a school in
    Philly.  Nobody wept over that decision.  Anderson left the middle of
    his Sophmore season.  Anderson had a fantastic Freshman campaign
    averaging over 13 ppg.  After Dwight transferred to USC, he did
    nothing.  Anderson still plays in Dayton city league games.  I'm going
    to have to get out and see him one day.
    
    The class with 3 top 15 recruits you may be thinking of was the
    1979-1980 class.  That class actually had 4 recruits:
    
    	- Dirk Minniefield
    	- Charles Hurt
    	- Derrick Hord
    	- Sam Bowie
    
    Bret Bearup was in the 1980-1981 class.
    
    - Rope

    Thanks Rope-
    
    It was Verderber I was thinking of. Hall had one great recruiting year
    after another. 
    
    The 79-80 class finally made the NCAA's as seniors-but were embarrassed
    by Georgetown in the semis. Wasn't there another player named Jim
    Master-a Kyle Macy type outside shooter?

    Kyle Macy - the Kentucky Colonel!  Now there's a blast from the past.
    I hear he and Robey breed horses now.

    
    	Perverts!
    
    Claybone

    David,
    
    Jim Master came to Kentucky in the Fall of 1980.  Master played in my
    hometown of Fort Wayne, IN (Harding High School).  Harding and my High
    School were arch rivals.  Master was phenominal in High School winning
    the coveted Indiana Mr. Basketball as a Senior.  He had a pretty poor
    Senior campaign shooting wise at UK.  His lack of speed was never more
    evident than against Georgetown when late in the game the Hoya's were
    able to spread the court and go one-on-one against the UK guards.
    
    - Rope

	RE: My P-Name

	Think about it.  After the two rounds of the NCAA Nolan boldly 
stated his was the team to beat, so take your best shot.  No namby-pamby 
whining or sandbagging, crying to the media about all the imagined 
injustices being heaped upon him by stating the obvious (your the team to 
beat), just a manly challenge to all takers.  Very refreshing.  Wouldn't be 
surpsised to see a repeat (and Richardson wouldn't need a FredBrown/ChrisWebber
gaff to accomplish the feat either).

				  /Don

 you mean we won't hear Nolan stating next year about his team is too talented,
 or has to avoid injuries or mustn't run in to hot shooting can't be beat teams
 or ....or....or....or....

 mike

    Well folks, next Friday the 22nd is my last day at Digital.  I've been
    with the company almost 4 years, but have received an offer from a
    local company that can't be ignored.  My career goals are centered
    around software development, and my new job will allow me to do UNIX
    systems programming on Sun and Hewlett Packard workstations using C++.
    
    I've really enjoyed participating in SPORTS; particularly during
    college basketball season!  Trust me, you'll hear from me again
    especially if Kentucky wins the National Championship!  I'll have to
    ask SPORTS resident Hoosier fan Mr. Tom Simpson to enter notes on my
    behalf.
    
    - Bob "Rope" Roper

    Good luck Rope. Not a bad time to be leaving. Will you
    have an internet conenction?? Make sure to give
    Kev all your address/phone information.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Thanks TCM.  I'm assuming I'll have access to the internet, but not
    positive.  When I find out, I can get hold of someone and let them post
    it.
    
    - Rope

 Good luck and congrats Rope. If it's going to take KU win a championship
 for us to hear from you, I guess we'll never hear from you again....

 ;^)

 mike

    
    	Yabbut take care Rope!  How's about doing that development
    on Alpha with OSF/1?????
    
    	We could use the bizness!
    
    I remain,
    sayin "Say NO! to H-P and Sun!
    Kev
    

    Kev,
    
    I'll see what I can do about Alpha and OSF/1!  I'm not quite sure if
    they have any Alphas currently.  I'll certainly put in a good word.
    
    - Rope

    Good luck Rope and take care..
    Congrats on the new job and keep an eye or two out for us.
    
    
    May the 'Cats get a champeenship fer you someday (well maybe just one)!
    
    Bon chance,
    MikeL
    

    Best wishes, Rope.

    Rope,
    	Good luck.  Shouldn't be too long a wait.
    
    	And you are feeling especially magnanimous today to allow Mike
    Childs to refer to your Wildcat institution as KU.
    
    
    	I was severely castigated and almost went to the Mike Heiser
    memorial Crow note for making the same error.
    
    Bill the Elder

    >> And you are feeling especially magnanimous today to allow Mike
    >> Childs to refer to your Wildcat institution as KU.
    
    >> I was severely castigated and almost went to the Mike Heiser
    >> memorial Crow note for making the same error.
    
    Hah!  I remember that!  Actually after reading Mikes note I thought
    about saying something.  I figured it would be in poor taste even for
    me to correct someone who's wishing me luck!  
    
    I need to leave ::SPORTS on a high note.  This is a time for healing! 
    No one (are you listening glenn?) better mention Aldoph Rupp and
    UK scandals to upset my last week!!!
    
    :-),
    Rope

Bob,

	I, for one, certainly won't mention Adolph Rupp and/or UK's decades
	of building a national reputation for basketball by cheating at
	every opportunity in here.

	It just wouldn't be right.

tom

    Neither would I mention that this year's best Wildcats came from
    Arizona.

    re Rhodes and New Car
    
    Now Tom, we both know that Rodrick was probably borrowing a friends
    car...  Yeah, that's it.  Probably his girlfriends or something like
    that.
    
    - Rope

    Well folks, this is it for me.  It's certainly been fun talking sports
    the last few years in here.  Good luck to all of you.  If I'm ever up
    East again, I'll try and look some people up.
    
    - Bob Roper

Article: 4922
From: [email protected] (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.local.kentucky,clari.sports.basketball.college
Subject: Report: Pitino Staying At Ky.
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 20:50:06 PDT
 
	LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) -- Kentucky athletic director C.M. Newton
says Rick Pitino intends to stay as basketball coach of the
Wildcats.
	``The fact is, I intend for him to honor his contract,'' Newton
said Monday on his talk show on WLVK-AM radio. ``He has indicated
to me that is what his intention is. So we're going to leave it
there.''
	Pitino told USA Today in a story in Tuesday's editions that news
reports that he was about to sign a five-year contract worth $21
million with the Los Angeles Lakers were wrong.
	Pitino had his contract extended last year at Kentucky to the
year 2000. It carried a $1 million bonus if he fulfilled it.
	``I have not been offered a financial package by any
professional team,'' Pitino told USA Today on Monday. ``There is
nothing to consider. My plans are to name my assistant coaches in
the next week and be back at Kentucky next year.''
	The university announced Monday night that Pitino will hold a
news conference at 11 a.m. EDT Tuesday. The school would not say
what Pitino plans to discuss.
	Rena Vicini, the sports information director, said Pitino met
with his players Monday night at his Lexington home. She said the
players and Pitino would not comment on the meeting until the news
conference.
	Players Tony Delk, Andre Riddick and Walter McCarty refused to
comment as they left Pitino's home. They were closely followed by
school officials ordering the players not to talk.
	An unidentified woman who answered Pitino's door following the
meeting said he would not comment until Tuesday.
	Pitino was in Los Angeles last week to participate in a golf
tournament and address a Castrol North America gathering. He spent
the past weekend with Newton playing golf in Augusta, Ga.
	``If he's out there playing golf at the Bel Air Country Club and
(Lakers general manager) Jerry West is playing in the tournament, I
will tell you this, and I've talked to Rick for two days, there
have been no serious negotiations of any type with the Lakers,''
Newton said. ``Sure he has talked with the Lakers. I don't know who
else he has talked with.''
	Newton said he was tired of the news reports the past three
years that say Pitino is going to the NBA whenever there was a
coaching vacancy. The Los Angeles Clippers and Atlanta Hawks
pursued Pitino last season.
	``I don't really care a whole lot about the national press,''
Newton said. ``But I'm really concerned about our own media and
fans.
	``As I said last year, when we renewed Rick's contract, he and I
both indicated that we were not going to respond to every source
.... We were not going to do it. It took so much of my time last
spring and I got tired of saying the same thing over and over. I'm
just not going to do it.''
	Newton said he and Pitino agreed that ``if there was anything of
substance to any of these ... sources or rumors, that we would make
a statement. We'd do it together. That we would acknowledge there
was something of substance, and otherwise, don't expect us to
react.''
	Newton said Pitino has especially attractive credentials because
of his NBA and college experience.
	``That makes him a very unique property and commodity to the
NBA,'' he said. ``I recognize that. Rick recognizes that. That's
why we said to extend the contract last year to put a stop to this
kind of stuff. Let's don't react.''
	Newton added that he has been more than pleased with Pitino as
coach at Kentucky.
	``If Rick left tomorrow he would leave with my blessings,'' he
said. ``I care so much for this guy and respect him so much, not
only as a basketball coach but as a person ... that if it is his
judgment to leave Kentucky, and he really felt that that is what he
ought to do, he would leave with every good feeling I could
possibly muster.''

 just like he stayed at Providence after renegotiating his contract there.
 A million dollar bonus is peanuts if the Lakers are really going to pay 
 him 4.2 mill a year......

 I don't think it's over yet.......

 mike

Article: 4923
From: [email protected] (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.local.kentucky,clari.sports.basketball.college
Subject: Pitino To Stay With Kentucky
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 11:00:14 PDT
 
	LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) -- Kentucky coach Rick Pitino said Tuesday he
will remain with the Wildcats and is not taking a job as coach of
the Los Angeles Lakers.
	``If I had an interest in a job I will tell you I have an
interest in a job,'' Pitino said at a news conference at Wildcat
Lodge, responding to reports he had talked with the Lakers while in
Los Angeles.
	``There have never been any negotiations. I was on vacation.''
	Kentucky athletic director C.M. Newton said on his radio talk
show Monday night that Pitino was staying.
	``The fact is, I intend for him to honor his contract,'' Newton
said on WLVK-AM radio. ``He has indicated to me that is what his
intention is. So we're going to leave it there ...''
	Pitino, who coached the Wildcats to the Final Four in 1993, had
his contract extended last year at Kentucky to the year 2000. It
carried a $1 million bonus if he fulfilled it.
	Pitino, a former New York Knicks coach, said he is getting upset
by reports the past three years that he is considering job offers
from NBA teams.
	``I'm going on my sixth year at Kentucky,'' he said. ``You fail
to realize this. Since my second year, you've been writing about
this. Just take me at my word. The problem I have is there is no
way to put a stop to this.''
	Pitino said he had not been offered a financial package by the
Lakers.
	``There has not been an offer by the Lakers,'' he said.
	Pitino said he told his players in a meeting Monday night at his
Lexington home that he was staying at Kentucky.
	``I told them if I was serious about a job they along with my
family would be the first to know,'' Pitino said.
	Newton said he was tired of reports the past three years saying
say Pitino is going to the NBA whenever there was a coaching
vacancy.
	Newton said he and Pitino agreed that ``if there was anything of
substance to any of these ... sources or rumors, that we would make
a statement. We'd do it together. That we would acknowledge there
was something of substance, and otherwise, don't expect us to
react.''
--
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 that's ok with me. He made the Knicks better during his stay, we know
 we don't want him to do the same for the Lakers. Still don't trust
 him though.........

 mike

re: trust

Pitino made it perfectly clear at his press conference that if'n someone
had actually offered him that much money - >$4 mil/year, supposedly - he
would have to consider it. 

But he was also very believable in his assertion that he had not been
contacted by anyone.

TTom

    NCAA hits 'Bama with sanctions.  I tried to write them down as I heard
    them, but I'm not sure I got them all.
    
    Best as I can tell - 
    
    3 years probation, however, no post season appearances next year only.
    
    "Dozens of scholarships" lost
    
    Forfeiture of 11 wins from the 1994 season.
    
    They can still be on the tube this year.
    
    UMDan

>                             -< NCAA nails 'Bama >-

Basketball ?

    
    Hmm, does the forfeiture of previous games also translate to wins for
    the other team, or a non-existant game, or two loses.  Assuming we are
    talking about football, does this mean that there was some other team
    that Alabama beat that was that teams only loss and therefore they lost
    their chance at the mythical.  
    
    Puzzled in CO,
    Marc
    

    The penalties were against the football program.
    
    I am not sure how the assessment of losses goes, or what their record
    was last year.  Details WILL be in the Atlanta paper tommorrow.  I'll
    try to add more info then.
    
    UMDan
    

    Sounds like a relapse back to the Bear Bryant days, 'ceptin' Bear made
    sure he had friends in high places...
    
    glenn
    

    Incredibly stiff penalties for a program that's never been in any
    trouble of this sort before.  It boggles the mind to think that one
    loan and one player signing with an agent at a school that fully
    cooperated with the investigation over a THREE YEAR period would lose
    24 scholarships, get a 3 year probation, be denied a trip to a bowl,
    and have to forfeit an entire season.   I'm no fan of Alabama, but this
    is ridiculous.  If the punishment is commensurate with the crime, what
    will Miami possibly suffer?  Even the death penalty as it applies to
    sports would not be severe enough.
    
    NAZZ

I am a 'Bama fan and I agree....


Sounds to me like the NCAA is pretty inconsistent....

Nazz/Saw

Ya got is a little wrong there.

One of the principal reasons that 'Bama got these sanctions was cause
they were not forthcoming with information to the NCAA and in fack lied
on several occasions to the NCAA.

There were three things cited by the NCAA. The firsted two, as mentioned,
were the Jelks taking the money and Langham signing with a_agent. Had
that been the whole story, I'd agree that the penalties were too stiff.

But it's been shown that the head of the 'Bama committee to investigate
these issues knew at the time of his report to the NCAA that Langham had
signed and not only failed to report this but denied it as well. This
got the proverbial "failure of instituional control" clause.

Also, if'n you compare the penalties with Auburn, they got off light.
Auburn had a similar situation but at least they correctly reported their
internal findigs and still got bumped off of TV and couldn't play in
postseason.

TTom

>Also, if'n you compare the penalties with Auburn, they got off light.
>Auburn had a similar situation but at least they correctly reported their
>internal findigs and still got bumped off of TV and couldn't play in
>postseason.

Auburn got EVERYTHANG they deserved  8^) 8^) 8^)


(as any 'Bama fan would tell you....)


'Saw


PS thanks for the correction....

The whole issue is what did 'Bama know, when did they know it and what
did they tell the NCAA.

Right now there's 2 stories. The NCAA is saying with these sanctions that
'Bama knew and in a_effort to keep Langham eligible, lied to the NCAA.
'Bama denies this although they aren't saying exactly what they knew,
when they knew it or what they told the NCAA.

The NCAA claims it has documents showing that 'Bama knew that Langham had
signed. The SOP for this is for 'Bama to declare the player ineligible,
present the facks to the NCAA and then reapply for eligibility if'n
there's cause to believe that the player should be able to play. In many
cases similar to this, the NCAA then gives some token game or 2
suspension and then reinstates the player.

Then, on top of this, the formal report to the NCAA denied that Langham
had signed with a_agent.

TTom

> Also, if'n you compare the penalties with Auburn, they got off light.
> Auburn had a similar situation but at least they correctly reported their
> internal findigs and still got bumped off of TV and couldn't play in
> postseason.
    
    I hear ya about the lying TTom, but in fairness to the NCAA the Auburn 
    situation was not at all similar in the matter of the original sin.  
    The Auburn situation had Pat Dye flat-out handing a bag o' cash to that 
    scumbag DB...
    
    As far as I'm concerned, the NCAA can levy probations on Alabama St
    and Alabama-Birmingham too and drive the whole damned state back into
    Reconstruction... ;-)
     
    glenn
    

re: Pat Dye

Dye, like Tarkanian, had been on the NCAA's sheet sheet for awhile.

Dye was a nomadic coach who always seemed to be looking for the nexted
best offer. His style was to go to a program, promise 'em anything and
everything and then beat it outta town when someone else called.

I always thought that this was one of the reasons that Auburn got the
stiff penalties.

A guy on one of them talk sports radio shows was making a good point
thised morning. By penalizing 'Bama the way they did, the NCAA really
levied punishments against players who either had nothing whatsoever to
do with this or weren't even in school when all this happened.

He proposed that instead of taking TV and/or Bowls away, just fine the
school. He proposed that if'n a school like 'Bama was fined, say, a
million bucks, then that would hit the schools where it hurts, in the
pocketbook.

I thought it was a_idea worth pursuing.

TTom

>He proposed that instead of taking TV and/or Bowls away, just fine the
>school. He proposed that if'n a school like 'Bama was fined, say, a
>million bucks, then that would hit the schools where it hurts, in the
>pocketbook.
>
>I thought it was a_idea worth pursuing.

Makes too much sense for the NCAA to pursue.


What'll happen, in this day and age, or I should say what it would take for the
NCAA to get real, is the following scenario:


	Some phenom commits to play at school X.  Five years before,
	School X was doing some dirty deeds, buying players cars and
	paying their freight etc etc etc.

	NCAA comes down hard on School X, and says no TV, no Bowl Games,
	etc etc etc.

	The aforementioned phenom gets all huffy, and when pro-draft time
	comes he doesn't get drafted as high as he feels he would had they
	had the TV coverage and bowl games.

	Phenom sues NCAA for loss of revenue or something like that.
	Case goes to court.

	Big court fight, and regardless of who wins, NCAA revamps its
	penalty situation.


I might not have all the legalities down right, but its the scenario that
counts....


'SAw

I'm somewhat surprised that one of the chumps on these teams hasn't sued
the NCAA already.

I mean here you are, trying to ply your trade and because years ago a
couple of scumbags broke the rules and then some other sleazes lied about
it, you caint play on TV or in the Bowls.

TTom

    Speaking of suits what happened with that quarterback originally at
    Miami who transferred to Rutgers and sued Miami because they didn't
    fulfill the promise of making him a starter (or something like that).
    
    I would think the cancelling of bowls and tv would amount to about a
    million or more.  They probably don't have the straight power to
    actually levy a large fine.

Lasted I heard, the guy got zip.

In fack, he couldn't even hold down the starting job at Rutgers, which
dint help his case or his cause.

FWIW, that was under the Erickson regime which obviously wouldn't go into
any lawsuit with clean hands.

TTom

     one other correction, they had to forfeit the 1993 season not the
     94...
    
     now if they did fine Alabama, what's to keep Alabama from leaving
     the NCAA? They could ignore the fine and just go on. I don't see
     how they could legally enforce the fine unless Alabama had signed
     an early such agreement. Also if Bama left the NCAA's how long before
     about 100 other programs did the same??????
    
     mike 

Actually, 'Bama and about 90 others have almost left the NCAA for a thing
called College Football Association - with less certainty as the title
goes on :*) It's almost all of the Div I schools, minus the BigT1E1N and
PAC10 with Notre Dame in it when it suits their purpose.

It was a compromise between the NCAAs and the bigger schools who didn't
much care for sharing all that money with the lesser folks. As it stands
now, CF[A] gets to keep most of its money.

Now would 'Bama quit, I doubt it. For the short term, I don't think so.
Let's assume for the purposed of this discussion that they up and quit
right now. The firsted problem would be who they could play. The NCAA
wouldn't allow any of the SEC teams to play 'em since they would get the
wrath. Same goes for about any other team in any other conference. They'd
be left high and dry for at least a year. 

Meanwhile, the NCAA has slightly changed the rules allowing players to
leave teams that have been put on probation if'n they didn't have
anything to do with it. So, I'd expect many of the top players to bolt to
other programs. Auburn would readily have 'em, I'm sure.

In fack, about the onliest team that has the clout to play 'Bama if'n
they seceded would be Notre Dame who has approximately the same amount
of money as all the rest of the CFA.

TTom

    
    I understand what you're saying TTom but I just figured as you've
    pointed out with the reference to CFA that if Bama left they'd have
    no trouble finding opponents as many many would follow them...
    
    mike

Well, I, for one, would love to see the NCAA fall apart.

If'n this weren't a private, voluntary club, it'd be in court full time
over its otherwise unconstitutional methods.

Reminds me a lot of RICO, where they come in, don't even charge you, take
you car and house, and now you gotta prove your innocent to even be able
to try to get your stuff back.

There's no due process with the NCAA and that's just the start of the
hosing you can get.

And all the while, the bigger point is missed, namely, that big time
athletics is outta control, has sold out, and is only about money. And
meanwhile, the players take it heavy from both sides.

TTom

    
    	Saw an old buddy of mine this weekend.  He knows I root for
    	Bama.  He said the new Bama cheer is now "Parooooooole Tide!".
    	
    Claybone