Conference hbahba::cam_sports

    I'm trying to hunt down the part numbers for the rackmount brackets for
    the terminal server products.

Seek and ye shall receive.

The Repeater and Server Mounting Bracket Kit is H3119-AA. Its description
can be found on page 2-66 of "OPEN DECconnect Building Wiring Components
and Applications Catalog", part number EB-M4506.

TTom

This is a common box mount kit that comes with most DECservers. 

How about a free Suns ticket for the info. 

Jeff

    Jeff, never heard of it.  Is it for recessed rackmounting?

    What's this?  Another junk note?

    No, it's the hunting note so go to your own topic before we call the
    NRA!

    Cain we please keep the noise outta here?  This note is for mainly
    types like me an' Claybroon to discuss our ventures afield.
    
    Mark.

    Jeff, Tom, and I all work in the field.

    Can't wait to hear how Markie defends himself during an attack by a mad
    deer, or duck.
    
    Lee

    
    Yabbut Hay!
    
    Walt was hunting for more junk notes so'z it's OK fer him to be here!
    
    I remain,
    de defender!
    Kev
    

    
    	Thankee Mark.  Now ya'll GIT before I sick my hound on ya.
    
    Claybroon

	I came across these little helpful hints in the Jan F&S

	Never criticize another man' dog, even if he asks you.

	Smart dog owners never say never,and they never say always. But
	they always give their dogs the benifit of the doubt.

	Few things make me feel better than petting a dog. Worry seems to
	flow out through my fingertips.

	
	Never brag about yopur shooting ability, especially before you 
	start shooting.

	Why do so many of us think that good equipment is an excuse for
	practice.

	The best shooting instructor is a box of shells.

	Check the trigger pull on your guns at least once a year. Like clothes
	a trap gun can change its own measurements.

	Always carry a screwdriver that fits your gun.


	Everybody misses easy shots

	There are no easy shots
	
	Before you shoot at something a long way off, think about how long
	it will take to get there.


	There is no such thing as being to safe with a firearm   any firearm.

	Whenever you find something you really like, buy two or three , before
	they change it or stop making it.


	The more remote the gas station is, the earlier it closes. It will never
	be open on Sundays

	If you ask anyone  even a friend for directions you'll still get
	lost at least 50 percent of the time, maybe more.

	If you've never been lost, you've never beenb far from home.


	Local knowledge and real knowledge aren't always the same.

	Always ask your guide to repeat the directions about where you'll meet
	later, twice.

	Never underestimate your guide. Chances are he knows more about
	his business than you do about yours.

	Always tell your guide your five years older than you really are.

	Good fly-caster alwats get the best guide.

	When you fall into the river your no longer a fisherman, you're a swimmer

	Falling in is one of hte most exciting things that everhappens to a
	fisherman. It brings out the little boy in him.


	No one in camp ever has extra bootlaces!

	When you break the hook on a fly, you'll get a hit on the next cast.

	Any knot tied in a hurry comes untied in the same way.

	The worst waste of mioney is a cheap pair of binoculars.

	Using a fly rod guarantees windy conditions. 

	Always carry a spare ignition key. Better carry two , in different 
	places.
	
	When a once in a life trip comes up grab it, even if you can't afford it.

	The longer the trip, the more stuff you will take you don't need.

	If only trip were as much fun a planning them.

	Trips that include women are more funb than those that don't The same
	is not true of childern.

	The best thing to bring to a new place is open mind.

	What counts on a trip is not how good you are, but how much fun you are.

	Beautiful guns don't necessarily shoot better than plain ones. but they 
	always seem to.

	A woment who tells her husband to have a good time  is always beautifil.
	
	Always pay your own share and then a little more.


	Lying down and looking up at the clouds makes you feel younger.

	Everyone else is just as afraid of lightning as you are.

	Don't brag about your equipment or your skills. Once is obvious,
	and the other soon will be.

	No matter how good you are, someone is always better.

	A man with a really good gun probably knows how to use it.


	I never mad an enemy by praising someones shooting or his dog.

	re: .12

	Nothing like a good chuckle to start the day!

	Thanks,
	Bill

    Dat's Cadzilla Bill,
    
    He done gradiated from hunting aardvark in Texass! 8^)
    
    One more hint.
    
    When hunting bear with your partner, remember to wear running shoes.
    If'n the bear starts a chasing ya ( especially if yer foolish enough
    th hunt near her den wif cubbies), rememember you only have to outrun
    your partner not the bear.
    
    8^),
    MikeL
    
    

	Mike, I knew who entered the note, I just meant it sounded like
	the proverbial "murphy's law" for hunting/fishing.

	Bill

	Nooooooo Mikey!!

   Only things I ever hunt in TEXAS  are two legged dear (Bar-does) and good
   or better fishin holes.

   Cadzilla  

   Pescadores extradinaries,  Phd in Icthyology

    Ah, yes
    
    T E X A S S 
    
    Where Men 'r Men
    
    And sheep are scared!!!!
    
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
    Hate to tell you this jake , but we killed off all of  the Sheep
    50-60 years ago. Darn Chicken's and Rabbits take up more space than 
    sheep ever did. 
    
    And then you know why shepards always wear frocks..
    
      A Sheep can hear a zippers a mile away!!
    
    Cadzilla 
    
      I've raised a few beeves in my day. ;>)
    
    

    Any of you vatos ever go hunting for javelinas (wild piggies)?
    
    I'll be going in another two weeks in the southwestern part of N.M., by
    the Tejas, Ariz., and Mejico borders, and I'd appreciate any advice
    from anybody that's ever hunted 'em.
    
    Cheers, 
    Carloski
    

    This Vato has never even hoid of em, much less hunted em.
    Good luck though.
    
    Ben

    
    Carlos,
    
    	I thought they were actually a rodent and not a *wild pig*.
    	I wuz wrong once though....
    
    Claybroon

Ah yes, Javelinas.   Many folks dont' know this, but AMC's Javelin
line of cars was styled after these animals, and not for the
spear that Finns love to throw.

Anyway, a Javelina is a cunning and dangerous animal, and quick,
but like its Auto namesake, it doesn't last long, and is prone
to breaking down during a chase.

Folks are torn between methods of attracting them - some say a_apple
does the trick, others say applesauce, while some of Germanic
descent say a pot of sauerkraut will bring the Javelinas scurrying
fer miles.

JD

    This vato loco has hunted javelina a few times.  Do yourself a favor
    though and keep the dogs away from them.  They get nasty when cornered.
    
    They run wild up around my buddy's cabin up north.
    
    Mike

    
    Pack a sidearm, it may come in handy. A .357 ought to do.
    
    -TH

    
    We hav'em behind my house.  They run up and down the wash.  Ugly
    suckers.  One suggestion:  don't miss, 'cause like Heiser said, they
    are mean sob's.
    
    brews

I've never really hunted javelinas, per se, but I have shot a few
while deer hunting in West Texas.  I'll agree that they're tough
little critters, but I also think that there's a lot of myth about
them being dangerous.

From my experience, they'll run from you if there's any possible way.
If you corner them and don't give them a way out, they'll come at
you.  But I've never really seen or heard of a verifiable report
of them really attacking a person.  I suppose it's happened, but
I'll also wager it's pretty rare.

Depending on what type of rifle you use, they're not particularly
hard to bring down.  Of course, I've only taken them or seen them
taken with calibers more suited for deer, and that's usually a bit
much for an animal that might dress out at 45 lbs.  Your .270 ought
to be more than enough.

They can hide where you would think they couldn't, and can be tough
to locate.  But that's the way with most wild animals.

As for eating them, I've have good and bad experience with them.
Younger pigs and sows are definitely better than old boars.  My
BIL shot a big boar one time, and we tried eating the backstrap (loin).
It smelled kind of like a skunk as we were cooking it, and tasted
about the same.  We spit it out without even swallowing.  On the
other hand, I've take the hindquarters from younger pigs and baked
them.  These were very good, and tasted a lot like fresh pork.

One other thing.  When you dress them out, keep in mind that there
is a musk gland in the middle of the back.  It looks sort of like
a big, flat nipple (sorry, can't think of any other way to describe
it).  Be very careful to cut it out, and do not cut into it.  They
really can smell just like a skunk, and that gland is the reason why.

Jerry

P.S.  Re. the boar that my BIL shot.  It was feeding when he shot
it, and he dropped it with a clean, one shot kill.  When we got
to it, there was a pickly pear leaf (you know, one of those round
things with 3 inch thorns) in its mouth.  How's that for tough!

    
    	I bagged an either sex deer tag for 3rd season on Saturday.
    	It was an easy drag back to the house.
    
    Claybone

    Congrats, Claybroon...what did the tag dress out at?
    
    Mark.

    
    	I'll let you know in November smart guy....... :*)
    
    	I forgot to mention that an *additional* doe tag showed
    	up for folks who successfully drew either sex tags in our
    	game management area.  The reason for this is that our
    	area is undersubscribed (ie not enough folks put in applications
    	for the number of licenses available).
    
    	So, Claybroon has 2, count 'em 2, deer tags.
    
    	I'll be sportin' a bull elk tag too.  I hope Mr. 6X6 that I
    	saw last year is still hanging around when I get there.
    
    Claybroon

    
    Yes folks, Mr. Claybroom slowly squeezed his right index finger into
    the trigger.
    
    
    
    
    		YOU'VE JUST WITNESSED ANOTHER GREAT ATHLETIC EVENT!!!!!!
    
    
    
    
    
    ;^)
    
    

    
    >>Congrats, Claybroon...what did the tag dress out at?
    
    Claybroon wearing dresses with tags still on!!!   FILM AT 11!!
    
    JaKe
    

    
    	I'm sure that the letter "F" by itself doesn't ring any
    	bells for you guys.  Neither would the letter "O" by
    	itself.  Would the two of them together remind you of
    	anything?  Hmmmm?  ;^)
    
    	A male Minnie Pearl?  I'd have to practice my:
    
    		"HowDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
    
    Claybone

      F. O. ??? 
    
      Fanning off?  Far out?  
    
     ;^)

    F. Off..........
    
    REK

      Hey who's stinkin the place up?

    Is Hunting a sport?  What does JD think?
    

    
    	Yes.
    
    	Would you accept the opinion of a man who condones the use
    	of aluminum bats?  :*)  Or was that me?  I forget.....
    
    Claybone

      Hunting is a sport and is survival to.  Walking through heavy timber,
    snow, up and down hills & etc. gives you enough excersizing to call it
    a sport.
    
      There is another kind of hunting.  Have you ever heard the song "The
    Hunt" by Ly-nard Sk-in-ard? (I didn't "pronounced" it correctly)
    
      Tim

    
    Tim, 
    
    I LOVE IT!!!!!!
    
    I get a lot of exercising when I'm doing 12oz. curls!  Therefore,
    beer drinking is a sport too right?????
    
    I can see it now......"Golly sports fans, Kev's just taken another
    drink from his can of "Old Bohemium"
    
    
    	YOU'VE JUST SEEN ANOTHER *GREAT* ATHLETIC FEAT!!!!!!
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    whatta guy!
    Kev
    

    
      You're awfully damn full of yourself lately, Farley.

    
    	Cut him some slack Tommy.  He's just juiced cuz he found
    	out his plumbing still works. ;^)
    
    Claybone

As the smokehouse instructor at Fire School used to yell:

		"Fire in the hole!"

�      Hunting is a sport and is survival to.  Walking through heavy timber,
�    snow, up and down hills & etc. gives you enough excersizing to call it
�    a sport.
    
    And I thought hunting was sprinkling corn around a clearing and sitting
    up in a tree with a 12 pack and enough firepower to make Rambo look
    like a wimp.

Aluminum bats are for wusses.  Hunting is a sport.  Though I consider
bow hunting more of a mainly sport than gun hunting, and of course, the
best is running down da game and killing it wif yer bare hands

JD

    Mac, to quote yourself...
    
    "Smile when you say that."
    
    Mark.

    
    Mark,
    
    	Only the *fat kids that played on the line* hunt like
    	that.  Right?
    
    Claybone

    I have it on good authority that Claybroom and LuFay really do this!
    
    ;^)
    
               <<< PEAR::DKB100:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SOAPBOX.NOTE;1 >>>
                          -< SOAPBOX.  Just SOAPBOX. >-
================================================================================
Note 431.209                  Animals & rights.....                   209 of 221
WMOIS::BERUBE_S                                      81 lines  23-JUL-1993 12:56
                -< For those who don't know and don't want to >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    I also need to add I do hunt, deer mostly, and would like to give some of 
    you insight into the mind of a killer. Kinda my own personel hard copy.
    
    First I thought some of you might want to know the basics of hunting.
    Once a hunting party is established most of the folks get really drunk
    and pass out. Then we call each other in a few days to plan the hunting
    trip. Everyone plans something to cook, like stew, chilly, beans etc
    these food are carefully selected mostly because our wives won;t let
    us eat them normally due to the know side effects. The hunting trip takes
    lots of preparation and carefull planning, like how we're going to get 
    4 guys and all that beer in one pickup trunk. The food again is important
    because living off the land although has its rewards is damn hard to
    do, unless you eat roots and granola bars all the time. 
    
    Anyway once your loaded and ready to go, you have to go through the
    process of selecting the least loaded person to drive. And off you go.
    Once arriving at the camp site or hunting base as we refer to it
    because it sounds more oganized and military like, the next step is to 
    unload and set up camp. At this time another selection process take
    place, selecting who is going all the way back home to get the guns.
    Most often its the same guy who drove up because the others drank all 
    the way up and are already passed out. 
    
    Opening day, at the crack of dawn you wake up and zip up your sleeping
    bag and go back to sleep until 9:00 or so.
    
    In the woods is where it all becomes worth it, the fresh air, sounds of
    chirping birds, the wild animals and the ball game on your sony
    walkman. Then you hear it, that blast that stops the chirping and sends
    the smaller furry creatures scrambling for an empty tree without a
    hunter in it. Someone has bagged a big buck you think, everyone comes 
    together to share in the ritualized event. This is when you find the 
    first guy to get lost in the woods during the trip, many others will, 
    several times, which is why you bring some much ammo. But the guy 
    who gets lost will now do all the driving.
    
    After a long and intense hour or so its time for lunch and a nap back at 
    camp. This is where the consumtion of chilly, baked beans brings out the
    beast in the man, or at least you begin to smell like a beast.
    Once the early afternoon passes or when you wake up from your nap its
    back to the wild forest to once more stalk the elusive whitetail. 
    Usually this is the best time to hunt because most guys over sleep
    their nap and its alot safer in the woods at this time. 
    
    Then it happens the pinacle of hunting thrills that once and a life
    time buck jumps out from nowhere and scares the bjesus out of you, this
    can have nasty effects if you eaten more than you share of
    beans. You gather your wits and get ready to take your shot, all within
    a nano second, which is about how long it takes a deer to disappear
    back into the brush, you fire your gun but alas you miss, of course you
    wait a few seconds just in case there was another one hiding in the
    branches above you which is where you shot because you were shaking 
    to much to really aim.
    
    All the fellow comrades come running to see the trophy, and you explain 
    all about the  500 lb 48 point buck you just missed. This is where you 
    get blamed for being the second person to get lost and now have to do all 
    the cooking.
    
    Back at camp we settle down to reflect on our day in the palm of nature
    and share the campanionship of our fellow man. Most of this time is
    spent telling jokes and drinking. 
    
    After a few days however it must all end as we run out of beer and
    beans. We pack up and head home leaving nature just as we found it 
    with the exception of the small marsh like area used for relief in the
    woods, what bears do it don't they? 
    
    Although we leave empty handed without a trophy we don't measure this 
    experience by how many deer we got, but rather how many beers we
    killed. We head home to our families and back to the day to day 
    toil of our lives but with a renewed value in the natural aspects of 
    our world and the fact we won't have to deal with it for another year.
     
    
    SB
    
    
    
          

    I guess those ads for deer blinds and bait are just jokes.
    
    JD, I'm surprised you think hunting is a sport.  Afterall it is the gun
    that does the work.  If you don't hunt particularly well, just get a
    bigger gun or an automatic one.

    
>>>the best is running down da game and killing it wif yer bare hands


    Damm, that sounds a lot like Rugby!
    
    I remain,
    Kev_for_Hawk_II
    

    
    	It's hard to tell if you're just chain yanking or what Mac.
    	Deer blinds are used in deer hunting in some parts.  As
    	far as bait goes, if you're caught baiting deer out here,
    	the DOW will confiscate everything in your camp.  You could
    	possibly have your hunting priveliges suspended forever.  At
    	the least it would be many years before you could hunt again.
    
    	Buying a bigger gun or an automatic one does not increase
    	your hunting skills.........
    
    Claybone

�    	Buying a bigger gun or an automatic one does not increase
�    	your hunting skills.........
    
    I didn't say it did.  Knowing JD's stance on motorsports I was trying
    to draw a parallel.

    
    	From what I've heard about the Air Force Academy hunts, all
    	you need is a cookie and a hammer. 
    
    Claybone

    
    >>	From what I've heard about the Air Force Academy hunts, all
    >>	you need is a cookie and a hammer. 
    
    Whaddya get from this, an Air Farce General's haid to hang on yer rec
    room wall???
    
    JaKe
    

�>>>the best is running down da game and killing it wif yer bare hands
�
�
�    Damm, that sounds a lot like Rugby!
    
    Nah, we only kill for food.
    
    Like they say, "Rugby Players Eat Their Dead"

      __________________________
     /                          \
     |  Just Like Rugby!!!      |
     |                          |
     \__________________________/
                  L_ !
                 / _)!
                / /__L
          _____/ (____)
                 (____)
          _____  (____)
               \_(____)
                  !  !
                  \__/

>    
>    Like they say, "Rugby Players Eat Their Dead"
>

If we don't, our opponents will....

'Saw

    
    Yabbut isn't it time to get the blueing out, re-align the sights,
    stock up in ammunition and do a a bit of Bambi blastin?
    
    deeningly wonked
    
    I remain,
    thinking of spray painting "dawg" on Digger to keep him safe!
    Kev
    

    
    	November 6th is opening day for deer/elk for me.
    
    	Keep Digger away from unit 43 in Colorado and he'll be
    	safe.  :*)
    
    Claybone

    
    Yabbut Nov. 6th is also my birthday!
    
    >> Remember, I've got the .44
    
    That reminds me of my first encounter with a .44 Magnum, "da most
    powerful hangun which'll blow yer haid clear off...".
    
    T'was back in da early 70's when I was doing mainly thangs like
    pushups, learning how to salute, dig foxholes, march and polish boots
    and learn really neet ways to kill people at the U.S. Army's luxurious
    slice o' heaven at Fort Polk, Louzyanna.  Anyway, one of da guys in my
    platoon, Tommy Brenner, lived a short 9 house away, by car, in
    Arlington, Tx. and one particular weekend we got a pass and scooted
    to his home turf.
    
    After our arrival and subsequent "thirst refreshing ritual" we retired
    for the night and the next day, his dad, big brother, Tommy and me went
    out for some tin can plunkin.  These good ol' boys were really
    impressed with their first meeting of a Noo Yawk booy and I guess they
    needed to sho me how mainly they were - specially since this little Noo
    Yawker was the #1 rated expert rifleman in our Company (not with a real
    gun though, since Mattel made my M-16 so it had to be a toy, right?)
    
    So, I hopped into Tommy's 6-Pack and the others went in their pick-up
    truck and down to the river we went.  30-o-6, couple of other rifles, 
    .22's and his brother brought his fohty fohty maygnum.  Tommy's brother
    and dad were built like ex-NFL linemen, his brother moreso like
    "regrigerator Perry", if'n ya git my drift.  Bang!  Bang! Ratta tat
    tat.  BOOM! (that was the .44)
    
    Most of the hunting I did (to keep it related) was to the tin cans we
    broight and tossed into the water.  Did pretty well as I recall.
    Anyway, I asked if I could shoot the Magnum.  They laughed (in classic
    good ol' boy hearties)  ;^(
    Finally they gave in.  The brother opened up the gun and took out all
    the bullets, except for one.  He put the safety on and handed it to me.
    "Kid, stick both arms out, lock yer elbows, hold the gun in both hands.
    Don't bend your elbows because the recoil will snap back into your face
    and probably break your nose. (This was good advice because my body was
    no longer my property.  It was the property of the US Army and I could
    be court-martialed for damaging Gov't property if'n I got back to the
    Fort with a busted schnozola)
    "Don't try to aim 'cause these things don't shoot straight, just fire
    in the general direction (I guess he figgered the BOOM would scare the
    can into sinking?)"
    
    
    		AND WHATEVER YOU DO, DON'T LET GO OF THE GUN!"
    
    
    So, I faced the river and spend a few moments trying to sight the can. 
    I was concentrating real, real hard, but inbeknown to my,  my "pals"
    really turned out to be nice, considerate red-necks because they stood
    behind me real quiet like....
    
    BAA BOOMMMMMMM!!!!!!!
    
    
    Next thing I knew, I was flat on my back, looking up at the sky.    :*0
    
    
    Those red-necks musta been related to Jean Dixon or somebody, I figure
    'cause they, while I was sighting, were busily putting on the ground,
    directly behind me, three large coats and a blanket making a very
    comfortable landing zone.  Go figgure.....who'd ever think that
    a handgun had the kick of a irate mule?????
    
    So, the moral of the story is, if somebody wants ya ta shoot a .44
    Magnum, remember NOT to aim it and bring along some coats!
    
    
    I remain,
    satisfied with my Crossman bb rifle for plunking
    Kev_the_once_airborne!
    

    Opps, change  "house" to hours and it might make a bit more sense
    
    I remain,
    probably still suffering from having my bell rung!
    Kev
    

    
    	Yabbut here's a little gem that illegal bambi and bullwinkle
    blasters should know about.
    
    An organization named something like "Group Against Poaching
    Fraternity (GAPF) has a nationwide 800 number for people to call to
    report poaching.  Supposedly, within 15 seconds the caller's call will
    be tranferred to the appropriate state agency for reporting.
    
    The number is 1-800-800-Warden
    
    
    I remain,
    only a hunter of Digger_the_Goat_Dawg's land mines
    :^)
    Kev
    

�    The number is 1-800-800-Warden
    
    Kev's posting bogus phone numbers (9 digits?)

    
      
     re: poaching and 800-800-ward
    
      I just called that number and got a diatribe why scrambling
    and over easy is pass�, and poaching is tres bonne.
    
      Beav and June say HI!
    
    
        

    
    >>An organization named something like "Group Against Poaching
    >>Fraternity (GAPF) has a nationwide 800 number for people to call to
    >>report poaching.  Supposedly, within 15 seconds the caller's call will
    >>be tranferred to the appropriate state agency for reporting.
    
    Thanks, Kev.  I just called it and reported my neighbor, cause when I
    was talking to him this AM, he said his wife was inside as we spoke
    poaching eggs.  Guess they should pay him a visit REAL soon, huh??
    
    JaKe
    

Okay, this is not properly hunting, but does have to do with shooting.

An organization I belong to is having a turkey shoot.  It's like 5 shots
for a buck, and the best score wins the turkey.   

My problem is not that I want the best score.  Most of the guys in the
organization are ex-military, and there's enough EXPERT medals floating
around to show me I ain't gonna win -- no way, no how.

BUT I want to have a respectable showing.  I want all my shots on the
target, and if I can get a decent grouping around the center I'd
be more than satisfied.

We're using .22 rifles, in a range on the premises.  I don't know how
far away the targets are, because I haven't been in the range yet.


Any tips would be GREATLY appreciated....



'Saw

    > Any tips would be GREATLY appreciated ....
    
    Close one eye, look thru that metal thing on the top of the barrel (I
    think it's called a "sight"), aim for the bulls-eye, and pull the
    trigger.
    
    HTH, and yer welcome.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

|    > Any tips would be GREATLY appreciated ....
|    
|    Close one eye, look thru that metal thing on the top of the barrel (I
|    think it's called a "sight"), aim for the bulls-eye, and pull the
|    trigger.
|    

Which end of the gun to I put to my shoulder?

Seriously, thanks for the help Chris but I had that much figured out...8^)


'Saw

    
    Saw,
    
    Support the butt into your shoulder, Sight down the barrel at the
    target. I shoot with the rifle on my right shoulder sighting with my
    left eye. WOrks for me. Do whats comfortable. Next, with target in
    sight, take a breath and hold slightly, SQUEEZE the trigger. 
    
    Sounds like fun, and good luck.
    
    
    

>    Support the butt into your shoulder, Sight down the barrel at the
>    target. I shoot with the rifle on my right shoulder sighting with my
>    left eye. WOrks for me. Do whats comfortable. Next, with target in
>    sight, take a breath and hold slightly, SQUEEZE the trigger. 
    

Thanks.

I've shot stuff before (like woodchucks and the like) but never for a
score.   I think it's the scoring aspect that is getting to me.

Shooting animals is like a pass-fail course in college -- either it's
dead or it's wounded.  But getting a score, well, that's a little different.


I'll let you guys know how I do.....

'Saw    
    
    

�Shooting animals is like a pass-fail course in college -- either it's
�dead or it's wounded.  
    
    ...or you missed, or you shot your hunting partner, or you shot
    yourself, or you shot a dog, or...

      Maybe you should go to the range and practice?  This might help is
    getting your range down.
    
      Tim

>
>      Maybe you should go to the range and practice?  This might help is
>    getting your range down.
    
Their range isn't always open.

I might just take my .22 out in the back yard and shoot at things wicked
far away, like 50 yards and stuff.  If I can hit stuff that far away
I should be able to at least hit the target....8^)


'Saw

    I had lost my glasses prior to qualification week and that combined
    with never having had a rifle in my hands before left me trying to
    qualify on saturday (min. 180) with a best prior of 165.  But a special
    remedial class on Friday got my technicque and confidence back and
    
    On Sat. morning I was doing fine at 200 and 300 yds especially since
    the site serves to correct vision.  But at 500 yards I could not make
    out my target number 19 from 18 and 20.  So I sighted in on 17 and then
    moved down two clicks, looking thru the sight to 19.  This worked okay
    for about 6 or 7 targets until I shot what seemed a sure bullseye.
    
    But nothing happened.  I asked the spotter to radio the pit and they
    said they missed the shot.  Then I heard arguing two places down as a
    bullseye had appeared just as the guy was about to shoot.  Then
    Maggie's drawers went up on 19 (*).
    
    Yes, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls I had forgotten to click
    down from 17 to 19.  But the good news was that I still managed to
    qualify and my buddy Marty who had been having a rough time took the
    "gift bull" and managed to qualify also.
    
    But as for current advice I forget everything but at least after this
    you shouldn't be too worried about military marksmen :-)
    
    Bill

>    Maggie's drawers went up on 19 (*).

There's an expression I haven't heard in years....8^)
    


I'm just gonna shoot, and see what I can hit.  I've figured out a way 
to shoot a perfect score.

Instead of the standard target I'm gonna put a picture of my last 
project leader's face up there....8^)


'Saw

    >    Maggie's drawers went up on 19 (*).
    
    isn't she on "Northern Exposure"?

 Why don't you get your filthy mind out of the gutter, Heiser. This is a
family notesfile.

    	I agree with 'Saw.
    
    	I haven't heard the term "Maggie's drawers" since Marine Corps
    	boot camp back in 1965. 'Course, I was good enough not to see
    	"Maggie's drawers" often on my target.
    
    	Next stop, the butts.
    
    	Scott
    

> Why don't you get your filthy mind out of the gutter, Heiser. This is a
>family notesfile.
    
    Sorry cousin.

Not strictly related to hunting, but a gun question nevertheless......


Given a choice between the Colt Python .357 and the best that Smith&Wesson
has to offer (don't know the designation of their top .357 model) which
would you choose and why?

I know some folks that are partial to S&W, and others to Colt, but I'm 
interested in the "why" part of it....


thanks,
'Saw

    Saw, I used to have a S&W Trooper and sold it in order to by a Python.
    Better grips.
    
    Mark.

    
    I have a Model 686 S&W, 6 incher. The Colt is by far  the better
    weapon. (IMO) Better action, smooth, I liked the colt better but
    couldn't afford the Python that I wanted.
         

Thanks so far guys.

I've got a little $$$ to play with, so unless I'm  way low on my estimate
of the cost of the Python, I should be able to afford it.  I haven't checked
at the shop or with a dealer yet....


'Saw

    
    
    Kev_for_MtM
    

    
    	Shaddap!
    
    Claybone_for_'Saw

>    	Shaddap!
>    
>    Claybone_for_'Saw

Yeah, what he said.....


Oh, btw, I'm leaning towards the Python.  4" barrel, rubber combat stock,
matte stainless finish.   I got several more favorable reviews on that
last night.....


'Saw

>               -< How'd you make out on that turkey shoot 'Saw? >-

Didn't win, didn't lose.

Actually, I found out that it was a mostly random deal anyway.  Didn't
matter where you hit the paper, since the little boxes with the high scores
were randomly scattered around the target.  

But it gave me an opportunity to get into the range, do some shooting, and
have some fun.   Next year, I'm sure I'll do much better.   


On the other hand, I did fairly well the other day in my Basic Pistol
Course, getting some good groupings in the shooting portion of the
course, and learning all the safety rules and things like that.

Indirectly because of that, the Armorer gave me a tour of the weapons
room last night, and I had an opportunity to examine some of the rifles
up close, see a WWII vintage japanese light machine gun, and play with
(loosely speaking of course) a model 1911 Colt .45 sidearm.   He'd seen
me looking through the door at the WWII surplus posters on how to adjust
sights and things like that, and invited me in.   When he found I had
an interest in guns, he rolled out the red carpet and I got the tour....


Can't wait to be activated this summer and go to Camp, when we get
an opportunity to shoot some of the "big boys toys".....


'Saw
    

Well, I passed step 1. 

I'm now legal to carry in Hebron.  On Monday, I take a copy of that permit,
send it to the State with a check and an application, and in two weeks,
I'm legal to carry in CT.....


Actually, what this area (around me) needs is a good indoor range.  The closest
one is in Bristol, which is about 45 minutes away....


'Saw

    
    Saw, 
    
    What happens when that idiot governer of CT outlaws Handguns, or tries
    to ? Saw a blurb on a show over the weekend. Colt manufacturing is in
    hartford, no ? This guy what to put 900 plus people out of work for a
    little PCness. I hope he lands on his head in the next election.
    

>    What happens when that idiot governer of CT outlaws Handguns, or tries
>    to ? Saw a blurb on a show over the weekend. Colt manufacturing is in
>    hartford, no ? This guy what to put 900 plus people out of work for a
>    little PCness. I hope he lands on his head in the next election.
>    

I seriously doubt he'll be able to muster the support to do that.  Granted,
he fights dirty (just take a look at what he pulled on the gambling casinos)
but he won't pull it off.

He's not running for re-election.  I think he saw the writing on the wall.

Colt has been bailed out by the State.  They've had wicked financial
problems and the State bailed them out of bankruptcy.  

Personally, I think Lowell Weicker is just a lot of bluff and bluster.
He's never around -- he's always vacationing in the Islands.  He wasn't
even in the State during this round of snowstorms.   He got hung up
at a bunch of airports trying to get back.  Good thing he's not running
for re-election, since the last Governor that was out of state during
major storms didn't get re-elected (Meskill).


'Saw


PS  Applied for the State permit today, should know it about two-three
    weeks....  Guess I came up clean with the FBI......

    	I think the TV blurb mentioned Colt, Ruger, and 3 other
    	companies that make weapons, etc.
    
    	Scott

>    	I think the TV blurb mentioned Colt, Ruger, and 3 other
>    	companies that make weapons, etc.
    
This area has a lot of weapons manufacturers.  Colt and Ruger are in
CT.  Smith and Wesson is just to the north in Springfield.

The Springfield Rifle used to be manufactured in the building that 
used to be Digital's site in Springfield, Mass.

'Saw

    
    
    
    	News Flash!!!!!
    
    	CNN is reporting that during the Groundhog day tests, a rifle shot
    was heard by the crowd and PPhil was found to be shot dead! 
    Eyewitnesses raced to the grassy knoll and apprehended the rifleman who
    was heard to be screaming as he was being put in the paddy wagon
    "These people should get a room!!!!!  This lovefest with a rodent is
    the same thing as gerbling!!!!!!  A Room Dammit!!!!!!  Maybe now
    they'll let me have some peace!!!!!!"
    	CNN is reporting that the rifleman, whose name has not been
    released, was approximately 5'9", very dark hair and is alleged to
    be a resident of Massachusetts north shore, near Newburyport.  He's
    to be arranged later in the day.
    
    
    hth
    
    I remain,
    I don't know about you but I find this appalling!!!!!
    Kev
    

    The rumors around here, after the winter we've had so far, were that
    some locals were in touch with Gilooly recently.....
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
    	Marky_mark,  did I get the hometown name right?
    
    ;^)
    

I would think that the prime replies in the hunting note would be

	.22, .25, .30, .32, .38. .41, .44, .45, .50, .357, .380
	.762, .3006

More or less.....


'Saw


PS  Picked up a Colt Detective Special .38 caliber on Sunday.  Nice
    action -- very smooth.  Fixed sights take a little getting used
    to, but other than that, no problem.   Very concealable also.

    Colt had discontinued this model in 1986, but brought it back
    last year.

�I would think that the prime replies in the hunting note would be
�
�	.22, .25, .30, .32, .38. .41, .44, .45, .50, .357, .380
�	.762, .3006
    
    No, no, no.  The prime replies are 1, 3, 5, 7, 11, etc.

    Nope.  I'm 5'11" and live in Hampton, NH.  And what am I being arranged
    (sic) for?
    
    Mark.

    
    	5'11"?  I didn't know they stacked it that high....
    
    Claybone

I was in the EMA lounge last night having a beer and I heard
a great story.

A couple or three or four of the guys were in Vietnam, and 
we got talking about the weapons they had in basic (M14) 
versus the weapon they were issued to go overseas (M16).
To a man they preferred the 14.

At any rate, one of the guys started telling a story about
a guy in his platoon from Tennessee.  They were on the range
one day, and the guy kept firing at the target, and the
guy in the pit kept holding up the red flag ("Maggies Drawers")
meaning that he totally missed the target.

This happened a few times in succession and they guys
started getting on him, calling out "Hey Country, can you
guys from Tennessee shoot straight?"  (I learned that anyone
from the rural South was automatically called 'Country')

He ignored them, and kept firing, until the DI came over
and started to give him what for.  He asked for one more
shot.  The DI gave in, and the guy shot once more, and the
entire target fell right over.

He'd been shooting away at the 2x4s holding up the target,
and had basically "sawed" through them before the DI
came over and yelled.  His last shot took it right down....


To my way of thinking, from 200-300 yards, that's pretty
good shootin.....

Quick question for any of you gun enthusiasts....

Do any of you have any experience with Sig Sauer?  

A friend of mine recommended any one of the Sig Sauer P series (the 226
in particular I believe) as good semi-auto 9mm.

I've fired the Walther P88 9mm, and would like to look at Beretta too.
The Walther felt good, but the trigger was VERY touchy....

Any and all opinions welcome.....

'Saw

    
>>Do any of you have any experience with Sig Sauer?  
    
    What kind of kraut is that?????   I like my kolbassi smothered in sauer
    kraut.
    
    JaKe
    

    Saw, heard good things on Sig Sauer in a 9 mm...I've shot one only
    once.  Beretta is superior (IMO) but obviously rather pricey.  I've
    also heard from my friend who is a dealer that the Walther trigger is
    sensitive.
    
    I still prefer revolvers over semi autos as the semi's are more proned
    to jamming.
    
    Mark.

>>     <<< Note 57.106 by CAMONE::WAY "Horseshoes and hand-grenades, man" >>>
>>
>>Quick question for any of you gun enthusiasts....

If you post this question in the Firearms notes conference, you'll get
a lot of answers.  And the folks over there are pretty nice, too.

The conference is SIETTG::FIREARMS.

Try it, you'll like it.

Jerry

>The conference is SIETTG::FIREARMS.
>
>Try it, you'll like it.
>
>Jerry


Thanks, Jerry, maybe I'll give it a try.



re Mark:

	I prefer revolvers too.  My Colt Python just came in.  I couldn't
	get it in the royal blue, but I did manage to get my second choice,
	matte stainless.  At any rate, I should get a little money back
	from what I expected to pay.

	The Detective special is breaking in quite nicely too.


'Saw

    
    The Sig has a good reputation, i doubt you would be dissapointed. I own
    a Walther PPK .380, I am very pleased with it and it has *Never*
    jammed. Spend the bucks on a good quality 9mm, jamming will be
    nonexistent for your usage.

>    The Sig has a good reputation, i doubt you would be dissapointed. I own
>    a Walther PPK .380, I am very pleased with it and it has *Never*
>    jammed. Spend the bucks on a good quality 9mm, jamming will be
>    nonexistent for your usage.

We were talking about this last night.  The one drawback of a 9mm, at
least in terms of our discussion last night, is that the muzzle velocities
are so high now, with the new high-tech 9s, that you have to worry about
your ordnance going through the bad guy and causing some collateral
damage....8^)

I like revolvers, always have, and probably always will, but somewhere down
the road (say 6-9 months from now if all goes well) I'll want to add a
9mm to my arsenal.

I know it's not a total selling point but I know the FBI Hostage Rescue
team is using Sig, and that says a lot to me.


'Saw

    
    They pulled the so called 'killer ammo' that was designed to penetrate
    and not exit. That is the stuff I would/have used for home protection and
    hunting. To much media pressure, so now we can watch bullets hit
    multiple targets upon leaving the intended one. Makes perfect sense.
                   

>    They pulled the so called 'killer ammo' that was designed to penetrate
>    and not exit. That is the stuff I would/have used for home protection and
>    hunting. To much media pressure, so now we can watch bullets hit
>    multiple targets upon leaving the intended one. Makes perfect sense.


You can still get a lot of that stuff if you have the right sources.  And
while I don't do a lot of reading on it, my brother does.  If you like
I can get a list of the "anti-personal ordnance" that is still available
on the market and which is proven to do what it's supposed to and not
more than you bargained for.

btw, Black Talon is still available, which surprised me, but a lot of
tests showed that it wouldn't always open.....


'Saw
                   

    Two of the women I work with just bought 9mm's.  I'm thinking of
    getting one myself before the Brady bill goes into effect.

>    Two of the women I work with just bought 9mm's.  I'm thinking of
>    getting one myself before the Brady bill goes into effect.

Actually, the Brady Bill isn't so bad, least in terms of a  waiting period.

The fallacy that a bill like that, or "guns for goods" programs, will
actually get the guns out of the hands of the bad guys is self-evident,
however, to anyone with half a brain, which excludes more of the gubmint
folks....

Up here in CT, if you don't have a permit, there's a two week waiting
period.  Of course, if you have a permit, you can get it right away,
but then having a permit means that a background check has already been
done on you.  Don't know how the Brady Bill will affect that.


A .45 is a good gun too.  From what I understand they have a lot of stopping
power (as in, "if you hit it with a .45 and it gets up and comes after
you, it's a Terminator, so forget about it and give up") and they don't
have a tendency to pass through.  Or so I've heard....


'Saw

>The fallacy that a bill like that, or "guns for goods" programs, will
>actually get the guns out of the hands of the bad guys is self-evident,
>however, to anyone with half a brain, which excludes more of the gubmint
>folks....

    
      This is the "Hunting Note"  not the "Mike Heiser Foistering His
     Politics On Us Again Note".

>     This is the "Hunting Note"  not the "Mike Heiser Foistering His
>     Politics On Us Again Note".
    
    Let's cut MikeH a little slack, Tommy.  This may not be about politics.
    He might actually believe that these ineffectual handgun exchange
    programs really are part of a great conspiracy against hunters and
    sportsmen.  The one where the kids turn in the illegal guns for
    Phoenix Suns tickets is clearly a sinister and conspiratorial plot...
    
    glenn
      

Actually, I'm kind of pissed that the ineffectual "guns for goods" campaign
here in CT is over, as I didn't have a chance to make a quick buck off it,
and most of the gun stores were sold out of the cheap, small automatics
that I could have bought up and made a profit off of.  You know, the kind
of working gun you can pick up for around $40, and turn in and get
$100 worth of food, or shoes, or whatever....

The insult of the whole thing is that gullible folks actually believe the
political posturing that this program is actually doing some good.  The
news media has taken the bait hook, line and sinker, and it makes me want
to vomit when I see Janet Peckinpaugh get all excited over how many
guns have been turned in.


But hey, like Connecticut native P.T. Barnum said, "There's a sucker born
every minute and two to take him"....


'Saw

    So when does squirl hunting open?
    
    Gin

    
    	Same day as snipe season
    
    Claybone

    Snipe huntin' is my favorite!

    Who uses a 9mm for hunting?  Is that part of the judeo-christian
    heritage?
    

    Well I dunno about 9MM but when I go hunting in me backyard every
    spring I use my mashie niblick.  Yardkill every time.
    
    MikeL
    

>
>    Who uses a 9mm for hunting?  Is that part of the judeo-christian
>    heritage?
>    

I know folks who hunt large game (say bear, wild boar) who carry a 9mm
or a .45 as a safety gun.

One friend hunts those critters with bow and arrow (which would make me
lose my fudge in an instant) but carries a sidearm just in case.


'Saw

>
>    Who uses a 9mm for hunting?
>
>    

  Bounty hunters.

  George

|>
|>    Who uses a 9mm for hunting?
|>
|>    
|
|  Bounty hunters.


I don't know about other states, but Ct has bounty hunters.  There's an
old law on the books from the late 1700s that allows for bounty hunters
to track down bail jumpers.   

A guy in Hartford (who used to be a professional wrassler, but
I can't remember his ring name) is one, and they've written a couple of
features on him in the paper.

I'm not sure if they are allowed any special use of guns or not, other
than what the normal, avearge-Joe-Citizen with a permit could use......


'Saw

    Doctor 'D' David Shultz, Maniac.

    
    	Well, I guess by the deafening silence coming from California 
    	way, Gin doesn't wanna go snipe huntin'.  Shoot, we woulda let
    	her hold the bag......
    
    Claybone

>    Doctor 'D' David Shultz, Maniac.

Ah yes, that's it!  I couldn't for the life of me remember......

>I know folks who hunt large game (say bear, wild boar) who carry a 9mm
>or a .45 as a safety gun.
    
    the park rangers in Wyoming laugh at the fools who think a .45 will
    stop a grizzly.

    Let 'em laugh...a .22 or an arrow will kill a grizzly if placed
    properly.  Then again, it's hard to be accurate when you're quaking in
    your boots.
    
    Mark.

    well that's the point.  if you screw up, you just make them mad.

Well, if any of you have ever seen me, I'd much rather take a chance
with a .45 and a full clip, than to try and climb a tree 8^) 8^) 8^)

    I'm here and snipe huntin sounds like fun.  But what's the bag for?
    
    As to my silence.............
    
    I am leaving my position in the CWO office to start in IVO tomorrow.  I
    have trained someone to take over the lobby for me and she is doing
    well.  I have been going through old papers from the last two years of
    this job.  Now I have all my things in boxes and am ready to drag them
    over to IVO.  My time will be short there and I hope to get into here
    and note every now and then.  I still will have time to do my mail
    though so don't be strangers.
    
    Gin

Picked up the Python yesterday, and quickly decided it was worth every
penny I paid for it.  

To borrow a phrase from Linda Richman's "Coffee Talk", the action is as
smooth as butter.  After sighting it in, it was remarkably accurate.

The only disappointment, at first, was that it came through with target
stocks, not combat stocks, but after a few rounds I decided I liked them
just fine.

Glad I got the 4" model, though.  I'd bet the 6" model would be
kinda heavy.  The 4" weighs 2.2, I think.  At any rate, you know you're
holding something, no doubt....

'Saw

    Saw, my Trooper was 6" and was a bit unwieldy.  Much prefer the 4"
    Python.  Good luck.
    
    Mark.

>    Saw, my Trooper was 6" and was a bit unwieldy.  Much prefer the 4"
>    Python.  Good luck.
>    
>    Mark.

Thanks.

I shot both .38 special and .357 Magnum JHP through it yesterday.  Definitely
know the difference with the magnum loads, but there is something satisfying
in the heavier recoil....

I expect that the action will loosen up a tad, at least the action did 
on my detective special, and that will probably help accuracy a bit too.


My brother's been doing some target shooting with a Ruger .22 semi-auto that
he bought, and yesterday he put 9 of 10 inside the 10.  I was pretty
impressed with that.  I have a way to go to get that good ;^)


'Saw

Quick question for you hunter types....


I have this raccoon that keeps coming around, during the day.  He's not
the list bit skittish and seems to take his time doing whatever it is
he's doing.  

The dog couldn't get at him, because the dog's on his run and the lead
isn't long enough, but he was about 3' away, and the 'coon didn't run
off (he wasn't cornered) he just sat there and kind of hissed.

We have a lot of rabies in CT these days, and I'm thinking this 'coon
might be rabid, but I don't know of any other things to check for.

If he is, I'll call Animal Control or the DEP, since they use all sorts
of special precautions with suspected rabid animals.

My dog just has his shots about 6 weeks ago, so I know he's good and
ain't worried about that....



Anyone have any experience with rabid animals?


'Saw

re: racoon

'taint that why you buyed all them thar guns?  If'n it taint rabid, you cain 
make a mighty tasty stew...

  Shucks, may be you aught'ah go get the 'ol flint lock, power'er up, and go
shoot you a raccoon. Be mighty tasty what with some carrots, onion, and tadars
cook'en in the same pot. 

  George 

    
    	Sounds like rabies to me.  I'd call the authorities and get
    	their opinion.  Don't put it off!  Some kid just might try
    	to pet that racoon...
    
    Claybone

    
    
    	Yabbut I don't like the sounds of that 'saw.  A month ago my
    neighbor's dogs (2) Chesapeak 'trivers, were attacked ~12:00 noon on a
    Sunday.  They were tied up,  and had their shots up to date.  Did you
    know that if a dawg is bitten by a rabies-suspected animal, it has to 
    be put in quarranteen for 3 months!!!!!!
    	My friend couldn't find a place to put them and even if he did, the
    boarding fees 'll kill ya!  Unfortunately, he had to put them to sleep.
    
    	From what I recall, healthy  'coons are nocturnal and rather than
    take the chance, I'd shoot it right away.  This rabies epidemic isn't
    something to fool around with.
    
    I remain,
    here but also having diaper duty when I get home  ;^)
    Kev
    

    Call animal control or something and they will set a humane trap for
    it.  Meanwhile, keep your dog in a pen if possible, but with all that
    hair he may be safe.  Who knows?  Don't take chances.
    
    Gin

Yeah, I'm gonna call Animal Control.

I don't want to shoot it if I don't have to, because I know that the
DEP is taking special precautions with them, and if I'm not mistaken,
it makes their job a lot harder if it's head-shot.

I thought I had him dead to rights on my way home from drill last
night, as I got ready to turn into the driveway I saw eyes glowing,
but it was only the barn cat from the farm up the road (who happens
to look a lot like the cat from Pet Semetary....)

So, I'll let AC handle it -- hell, it's what I pay taxes for.

However, should a_emergency arise, I'll peg the thing right between the
eyes with either .357 jhp or .22 long rifle.  I'd rather use the rifle,
as the distance factor is a little bit better, but I've got the Python
dialed in and could probably give that 'coon a new nostril if I wanted
too.....


'Saw

    Saw, definitely call the Animal Control officer.  We had a big'n out
    front a month or so ago in broad daylight staggering around in circles.
    When the cruiser pulls in my driveway, the critter starts walking
    *towards* the officer.
    
    After the officer put it down, they brought it in for tests and
    confirmed that it was rabid.  I'm glad we didn't take any chances with
    all the pets and kids in the neighborhood.
    
    Mark.

    'Saw, 
    
    Watch out for that barn cat.  If it's been near your place as has the
    the other animal, it may have been in a fight with it.  
    
    Gin

Yeah, I thought of that too.  But I never see the barn cat during the
day, and because Rakkie's in at night, I'm not too worried.....

I'm just gonna put them at the top of my "To Shoot" list, along with
Revenuers and a guy I work with who shall remain nameless......8^)

Question for a little bit o' help......


	I was in a gun shop the other day browsing.  Well, I was looking
	for a belt pack, but that's another story.

	Anyway, this one particular shop had a large selection of used
	rifles and shotguns.  The had at least 6 or 7 used M1s, (the
	rifle, not the carbine).

	The price was pretty good, and the gun is a classic, if a bit
	heavy.  I understand that the only knock on the gun was
	its weight -- imagine storming the beach at Normandy with a 
	gun that heavy?  Blows me away.

	Anyway, the gun store has a 30 day guarantee on used merchandise,	
	and whatever M1 I'd buy I'd take down to the armory and have our
	armorer look over, but I decided it wouldn't hurt to solicit
	a little advice in here too.


	1. Have any of you bought any used rifles?  I know an M1 isn't
	   a hunting rifle, but I'm not looking to hunt, primarily this
	   would be used to qualify for and use on the rifle team.
	   If you were going to purchase a used rifle, what would you look for?

	2. Would you recommend buying used?


	I know the shop is reputable, so that's not a problem, and I know
	they'd make good any problems that I found.......


Any help/thoughts/advice appreciated....

I've bought used guns before. Lasted year I bought a used Browning BAR
30-06. It's one of the finest guns that I've ever owned.

The M1 is a good used gun primarily because it very easy to care for. I
don't own one but I've shot 'em. They break down easily and cleanly
making them easy to maintain.

I don't know about the most recent assault gun restrictions but it's my
understanding you caint buy the ones tricked out with bayonetts, anymore.
I went to a gun show right before the bill was passed and everyone was
talking about this being the lasted chance to get the full combat models.

Of course, these are mostly NRA types who apparently spend most of their
waking moments in stark fear that the liberals will take away their
constitutional right to pretend like you're in a militia.

TTom

>I've bought used guns before. Lasted year I bought a used Browning BAR
>30-06. It's one of the finest guns that I've ever owned.

Oh, that was a STUD gun, if it's the one I'm thinking of.  It won't
go full-auto though, right, or do you have a machine gun permit?  8^)



>The M1 is a good used gun primarily because it very easy to care for. I
>don't own one but I've shot 'em. They break down easily and cleanly
>making them easy to maintain.

Yeah, the guys told me that basically you could drop the thing barrel
first into a pile of sh*t, and it would still shoot.

It gets pretty heavy by the end of a match though.  All the guys told
me that too, especially when you fire your standing rounds.


>I don't know about the most recent assault gun restrictions but it's my
>understanding you caint buy the ones tricked out with bayonetts, anymore.
>I went to a gun show right before the bill was passed and everyone was
>talking about this being the lasted chance to get the full combat models.

Connecticut has an assualt rifle ban, but like everything else in this
state it is messed up.  You can't buy an AR-15, but you can buy the
Ruger Mini-14.  Go figure.  If it has a pistol grip, it's an assault
rifle.  There's some other pretty boguy criteria too.

I missed the boat on getting the AR-15 before the ban.  I would have liked
one -- they're light and accurate, and no more deadly than my Ruger .22.
In fact, my Ruger .22 has a higher round capacity.

Personally, I think that the M1 is probably more deadly that the AR-15,
especially is someone knows how to use it.  But I guess the legislature
doesn't think so -- it doesn't have a pistol grip....8^)

As to bayonets, well, hell, you never know when a woodchuck is going to
charge you 8^)....  Seriously, you can always mail order a bayonet.


>Of course, these are mostly NRA types who apparently spend most of their
>waking moments in stark fear that the liberals will take away their
>constitutional right to pretend like you're in a militia.

Well, I don't have to pretend -- I am.  We have bayonets and once a year
I have access to neat things like M-60s and M-16s and stuff like that.
Course, we don't use bayonets for anything 'cept ceremonies...


'Saw


PS  Sometime I'll have to tell you about the wonderful "Guns for Goods"
    program that was so badly mishandled the taxpayers (ie me) have ended up
    bailing it out.  We're all happy about that (NOT)

The BAR is made with a sorta modular type clip apparatus. It has a spring
loaded closure and the clips attach to it for loading. The clips hold 4
shots and you can put one in the chamber. You'd have to be a gunsmith to
re-engineer the whole breech for it to accept a clip large enough to
support a full auto. And yes, it's a cannon. You'd be amazed at the
damage it can do to a budwieser can.

As to the Mini-14, it's one of the examples of how stupid this new law
is. I'm not talking about the various political sides of this issue, just
the bill itself. A Mini-14 is OK with a standard stock. It's not OK with
a pistol grip. Same goes for the flash supressor which is a standard part
but put it on and you got yerself a_assault gun.

But back to the basic question, if'n I could pick up one of them M1s,
used and cheap, I'd do it. Hail, when you run outta ammo you can bludgeon
the beer cans.

TTom

>The BAR is made with a sorta modular type clip apparatus. It has a spring
>loaded closure and the clips attach to it for loading. The clips hold 4
>shots and you can put one in the chamber. You'd have to be a gunsmith to
>re-engineer the whole breech for it to accept a clip large enough to
>support a full auto. And yes, it's a cannon. You'd be amazed at the
>damage it can do to a budwieser can.

Okay, because I know that the WWII vintage BAR could go full-auto,
I believe.  Could be wrong...


>As to the Mini-14, it's one of the examples of how stupid this new law
>is. I'm not talking about the various political sides of this issue, just
>the bill itself. A Mini-14 is OK with a standard stock. It's not OK with
>a pistol grip. Same goes for the flash supressor which is a standard part
>but put it on and you got yerself a_assault gun.

That's what happens when you have well-meaning (in their minds anyway)
yet ignorant bunch of people trying to legislate stuff.


>But back to the basic question, if'n I could pick up one of them M1s,
>used and cheap, I'd do it. Hail, when you run outta ammo you can bludgeon
>the beer cans.

I'm seriously thinking of it.  Hell, I might even put a bayonet on it
and stab me a few of those beer cans....


'Saw

Well, last Thursday I picked up what will probably be my last (for a while)
and quickly becoming my favorite, aquisition.

My dealer had been unable to procure one for me, as they were tremendously
backordered through all his distributor's, so I decided to call up a local
retail outlet and see if they had them.  They had two left in stock, so
I picked one up.

I bought a SIG-Sauer P226.  I am very impressed with the quality and
workmanship of this gun.  It came with two 15-round magazines.  This piece
is, last I knew, the issue piece for the FBI Hostage Rescue Team, and I'd
also heard that the Navy SEALS were looking into it.

I was impressed with the fact that SIG-Sauer test fires every gun.  Included
in my owners manual was the 5 shot test firing target, signed and attested
to.

Took it to the range yesterday, and it is, to borrow a phrase from Linda
Richman's Coffee Talk, "like buttah".  

I tended to shoot a little to the right with it, but my brother put 4 of
5 rounds into the 10 ring on his first and only handling of the gun.  
Concentrating more, I had it all in the black by my second magazine.

It field strips very quickly and easily, and is a breeze to clean.


I purchased some Silver Tip Subsonic ammunition (I've heard that with 9mm
there is some possibility of over-penetration and collateral damage) and 
it works nicely in the piece.  I had been a little concerned that the subsonic
might not generate enough force to re-cock, but it worked fine.


If you're interested in a 9mm, I'd highly recommend this particular model...


'Saw

    And what do you hunt with a 9mm gun ???
    
    curious
    

>
>    And what do you hunt with a 9mm gun ???
>    

Humans....8^)


No seriously, I don't hunt.  I have two main interests when it comes
to guns.  I target shoot, which I find very relaxing -- having to focus
and concentrate seems to be a great stress reliever.

And, becuase I'm often times required to be in some dangerous area,
I have a permit to carry, and often do.

I don't hunt animals, other than with a 35mm camera....

    

'Saw

RE   <<< Note 57.160 by CAMONE::WAY "Try 664/668, Neighborhood of The Beast" >>>

>And, because I'm often times required to be in some dangerous area,
>I have a permit to carry, and often do.

  You wouldn't be referring to this notes file would you?

   3---+
   :*O}+
   3---+

  George

>
>  You wouldn't be referring to this notes file would you?
>


Uh, yeah, that's the ticket....8^)

No, actually, on numerous occasions I have to venture into areas down
here in CT that are downright scary.  But then a lot of folks from Mass.
would say that ALL of Ct is downright scary 8^) 8^) 8^)


'Saw

    I've been to the US once and say it's ALL scary ! ESPECIALLY Boston.
    Davie.

>                            -< Guns is for sojirs >-

Yeah, I've got that reason too... of sorts.


>    I've been to the US once and say it's ALL scary ! ESPECIALLY Boston.
>    Davie.

Next time you come, let me know.  You can pop down and we'll drink beer
in my back yard while we do up some steaks on the grill.   All utterly
un-scary.

Scariest thing is the neighbor's wife -- if you look her directly
in the face you might turn to stone.....


'Saw

    'Saw,
         might do that. Only thing is that if yer beer's warm. Ah'll blow
    yah goddam bollocks cleen off boah !
    
    Davie.

    On Friday and Saturday nights, Arizonans sport 9mm's when going out on
    the town.  Sort of a status symbol for men that don't wear pearls.

>    'Saw,
>         might do that. Only thing is that if yer beer's warm. Ah'll blow
>    yah goddam bollocks cleen off boah !
    
I'll have to sit on my kevlar then.....(Just a reference to a sojir's trick
when on air-assault missions)....

Nope, don't like warm beer.  Some beer should be served a cellar temperature,
which is okay by me, but I don't like warm beer....


Drank quite a bit of scotch this week, but the best I could get was Dewars..8^(



re 9mm.....

I like the SIG.  It's quality through and through.   I have to get with
my friend the cop and try her Glock sometime though -- we're gonna see which
we think is better (I'm betting on the SIG naturally)


'Saw

Question for anyone that might know:


	I've seen lots of shooting glasses with different colored lenses.

	Mine are yellow, and I like them just fine. I mean, they protect
	my eyes, and I can see the target and all -- that's cool.

	But I've seen lenses that are tinted lighter shades of red and
	seen some that are variations of grey.


What gives?  Is it just personal preferance, or are they for different
conditions?

Right now I shoot indoors, but chances are that pretty soon I'll be
doing a lot of outdoor shooting too, and I was wondering.....


'Saw

>Right now I shoot indoors, but chances are that pretty soon I'll be

Saw, you found a_indoor range that will let you drink beer and shoot at
the empties?

TTom

    'Saw
    
       Shooting glasses come in different colors for different
    applications.  Yellow glasses are for shooting in low light conditions
    such as dusk, or indoors.  Vermillion (rose) are for shooting the
    orange clay pigeons.  The rose lenses make the targets stick out
    better.  Other lenses have "blue blockers" for people that are
    sensitive to the sun.  Then you've got regular green glasses which are
    for bright days.  All these different colors come in many shades or
    variations.
    
    Jeff
     
       

>
>Saw, you found a_indoor range that will let you drink beer and shoot at
>the empties?
>


I wish.  8^)

Nope, my indoor range is very strict, but I like it that way.  When I'm
on the firing line I never worry about myself -- I've shot with enough
ex-military types that I know if you point the muzzle ANYWHERE but down
range you're libel to be severely beaten about the haid...8^)

But I do worry sometimes about the other folks on the line.  I've never seen
anything that would cause me worry, but you know there's always at least
one bozo in any crowd.  That's why I like the range I go to -- they're
strict....

>    sensitive to the sun.  Then you've got regular green glasses which are
>    for bright days.  All these different colors come in many shades or
>    variations.
    
Thanks Jeff.  I didn't know that -- especially the part about the red
lenses, that's really interesting....


'Saw     
       

    
     re: hunting glasses..
    
     I keep different colored glasses on my terminal, and
    change them according to which note I'm in..
    
    

    Hey Steven
    
    I bet you really like those orange and blue ones the best!!!!

    
    	A final score in from this past weekend:
    
    			Claybone 6
    
    			Ducks    5

    Hunting season 1
    Lufay 	   0
    
    Spending nearly all of November in the Far East :^(.
    
    Mark.

    >Ducks    5
    
    Does this mean you got shot five times by a duck?

|    >Ducks    5
    
|    Does this mean you got shot five times by a duck?

Oh, I thought it meant that he went hunting with a bunch of guys who 
play hokey in Anaheim.

=Bob=

    
    	Yes....

    
    
    Clayboy
    
    Don't that just quack you up! 
    
    
    You  know who

    Let him beak his mind...
    

|    Let him beak his mind...

He'd just duck the question...

    This is getting pretty fowl.
    
    Mark.

    do ducks taste like chicken too?

>
>    do ducks taste like chicken too?
>

Nope.  They taste like rattlesnake.....

    
    	Rollin' 'Saw!
    
    	I forgot to mention one other score from my huntin' trip:
    
    			Bee	1
    			My son  0
    
    Claybone

>    	Rollin' 'Saw!
>    
>    	I forgot to mention one other score from my huntin' trip:
>    
>    			Bee	1
>    			My son  0
>    


Bees are good eatin....  Too bad lil' Clay wasn't quick enough with the
swatter -- he coulda had hisself a snack....

8^)

    
    	Let me 'splain a little further, that bee left a welt on the
    	back of my son's neck!
    
    Claybone

>                       -< hollered like he'd been shot >-
>
>    
>    	Let me 'splain a little further, that bee left a welt on the
>    	back of my son's neck!
>    


Well, in that case, that bee DESERVED swattin', and lil' Clay (no matter
what his name is, I like the way lil' Clay sounds.....) could've soothed
his achin' neck by eatin' the critter that got him....


Hope you had a little aloe wif ya.....


'Saw

    Wad, when does Junior start shootin' "clay" pigeons?
    
    Mark.

    
    	Clay Troy Wade II is his name.  I call him Mach II for short...  
    
    Claybone

    
    	Not for a while there LuFay, he's still plinking at pop cans
    	with the Red Ryder....

>    	with the Red Ryder....

COOL!!!!!

Lil' Clay wif his Red Ryder....  It just don't get any better.....

    
    	I just spit a little tabacky juice on it....

    ...but rattlers taste like chicken too.

  Anyone know what chicken tastes like?

  Seems you'd always get a mouth full of feathers.

  George

    
    
    	I've eaten rattlesnake and it did not taste anything like chicken,
    fried or otherwise.

            <<< DOGS::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CANINE.NOTE;1 >>>
                                  -< CANINE >-
================================================================================
Note 1656.0                        "SAD STORY"                         5 replies
SALEM::DILLON_D                                      38 lines   5-OCT-1994 13:33
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well folks, it's that time of the year again. Every year you hear the same 
hunting horror stories, only this time it happened to us. It was 5:30 PM, Aug. 
28th, supper time in Hudson, NH, and my husband went to bring our 14 month
old puppy inside to eat. We keep her in a pen, outside when we're not home.
As he always does, he opened the gate to let her out to relieve herself
before putting her on the leash. She either heard something, (he didn't),
or picked up a scent, because she went into the wooded part of our backyard.
My husband figured it was just a squirrel, she loves chasing them. Before he
could turn around and recall her, a young, heavy set man shot her with his
hunting arrow. When he heard the dog yelp, he ran to the edge of our yard
and saw him, and the man said, "The dog was coming at me, I have a right"!
My husband was in shock! At first he said it didn't register. Brandy never
barked or growled at this person. This "hunter" was in our backyard! He was
about 50 feet from our house! The "hunter" then took another arrow out and
reloaded his bow! This is where my husband grabbed Brandy and ran! She had two
large holes from the arrow in her rear leg, she was bleeding profusely. My
husband preceded quickly to get her to the Vet's, he yelled to me in the
house call the Police Brandy has been shot with an arrow. She spent two
hours on the operating table because this "hunter" thinks he "has a right".
Brandy is now home and it will probably take 6 - 8 weeks for her to heal.
 
Unfortunately, the "hunter" drove away in an older model, four door black car.
We have not been able to find the arrow, even with a metal detector. We  
notified the police and Fish & Game.

We're looking for this person and the police will follow up on all leads we 
give them. If you would like more information, please feel free to contact me 
off line.

regards,

Diane
Salem::Dillon_D
DTN: 285-3248

    Please read the replies to that note before you fly off the handle.
    
    Mark.

    
    
          I read the replies?
    
    Chap

You can't condemn all hunters on the basis of one person who apparently
was unsafe.  (I'd like to see if there was another side to this story
too -- the person who started writing sounded like she's had lots of problems
before and how does that color the story).

But, even if the hunter was unsafe, it's no different than many other things
out there.  There are ALWAYS going to be people who, through either
ignorance or negligence, are unsafe.

I almost got killed fighting a fire one day because a new rookie behind
me did something unsafe.  I've seen people playing golf in lightning storms
which is pretty unsafe.  Hell, people who go to Yankee Stadium are doing
something unsafe 8^)


For every hunter who is as (apparently) stupid as this one was -- though
keep in mind we don't know the other side of the story -- there are ten
who hunt safely and responsibly....


And that's from a non-hunter......


'Saw

    
    Chappy,
    
    	I saw a guy get the snot beat out of him at a Raider game one
    	time.  On national TV no less.  The Raiders attract a criminal
    	element for fans.  They should be banned from playing football
    	and nobody should be allowed to root for them.
    
    Claybone

Personally, I feel it's an epidemic we're facing, of irresponsible people.

I was talking about this with my honey last night, as she was telling
me some guy almost killed her on the highway when he ignored a yield sign.
She had no where to go (the lane to her left was full).


So many people these days either just don't care, or feel their entitled
to something, or what I don't know.  But they don't realize that their
actions affect not only themselves but others too.

Hell, last night, I saw a guy in New Haven, with two little kids, one
in each hand, just step out into traffic without even looking.  I mean,
okay, you wanna do that to yourself, fine, we could always use one less
a__hole in the world.  But the guy had his two KIDS with him.  Man, that's
stupid!

To be honest, the hunter with arrow and the poor bleeding puppy dog story
bothers me less than that jerk last night with his kids....



Sorry, guess I got carried away there.....


'Saw

    
    
        ClayboneHEAD,
    
    
            What does that have to do with some stupid F$#@ing hunter
    shooting a Dog with his little Bow and arrow? Take it to note 46. :-)
    
    Chappy

    Chappy, we'll explain this slowly, so even YOU can understand.
    
    You:
    
    1. Some slob shoots a dog.
    2. This slob happened to be hunting.
    3. All hunters are slobs.
    4. Therefore, hunting should be banned.
    
    Clay:
    
    1. Some guy gets beat up at a Raider game.
    2. This buy happens to be a Raider fan.
    3. All Raider fans are criminals.
    4. Raiders fans should be banned from attending football games.
    
    Clear?
    
    Mark.
    

    
    
    Glad you cleared that up for me Lufeyyyy.
    
          But 1. Some Slob shot a dog?
              2. This slob was hunting?
              3. Most hunters should have to be able to read, and be
    prouder of their HS diploma than their NRA certificate.
              4. ALL Hunters should be more responsible!
      ------------------------------------------------------------------
             1 The guy got beat up at a Raider game?
             2 I saw two guys kissing at a 9er game
             3 Yankee Stadium is in the Bronx.
             4 Total World Championships in Boston in the past 20 years is
                3.    (Celtics should be reclassified)
    
       Moral of the story is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO?
    
                                                      Chap

    
    	Thank you Mark.

   > You:        
    
   > 1. Some slob shoots a dog.    
   > 2. This slob happened to be hunting.    
   > 3. All hunters are slobs.    
   > 4. Therefore, hunting should be banned.        
    
   > Clay:
            
   > 1. Some guy gets beat up at a Raider game.    
   > 2. This buy happens to be a Raider fan.    
   > 3. All Raider fans are criminals.    
   > 4. Raiders fans should be banned from attending football games.
    
There is a difference, Mark, Clay (and 'saw's golf line of reasoning).
    
    The dog was out in his back yard, minding his own business.  The Raider
    made a conscious decision to go to a Raider game.  However stupid that
    decision was, he made it knowing the consequences.  The dog didn't have
    that opportunity.
    
    brews  

RE      <<< Note 57.209 by SOLANA::MAY_BR "QUIET--case study in progress" >>>

>    The dog was out in his back yard, minding his own business.  The Raider
>    made a conscious decision to go to a Raider game.  

  Is this why Raiders fans always act a little strange around fire hydrants?

  George

Hey, wait a minute.... could that hunter have been




		REK???????

    
    >>      But 1. Some Slob shot a dog?
    >>          2. This slob was hunting?
    >>          3. Most hunters should have to be able to read, and be
    >>prouder of their HS diploma than their NRA certificate.
    >>          4. ALL Hunters should be more responsible!
    >>  ------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    One addition to that list, the Hunter should have to abstain from
    consumption of the massive quantities of alcoholic beverages that are
    considered a "right" of the hunting weekend by many.  No wonder they
    have to dress up like a traffic cone to avoid getting shot by their
    buddies.
    
    JaKe
    

    Reading The Enquirer again, Jake?
    
    Mark.

    No, I used to hunt, and I know many many peoples that go hunting, and
    fer most, one of the pickups is packed wif beerski and some harder
    stuff, and one group of "people" I know, who have a 3 hour drive to
    their camp, will not pass any bar on the way without stopping in for at
    least one beer.  There have been 2 DUI's in the lasted 5 years amongst
    this group just from the trip to the camp.
    
    I also had a friend killed in the woods by a drunken asshole wif a
    30.06.
    
    JaKe
    

    Could it be more of a comment PA hunting?
    
    I've been hunting for 20 years, my Dad nearly 40.  We've hunted in
    Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine and Mass.  I've hunted with over 100
    acquaintances.  I have met dozens of hunters through Digital notes
    files, many of which I've been afield with.
    
    Not one, I repeat - NONE, have ever been with me under the influence
    of alcohol while hunting.  So where are all these stiffs?
    
    So while there are idiots that go hunting under the influence, it has
    been my experience that they are rare.  You're more likely to see some
    stiff behind the wheel on your way home from work today.
    
    Mark.

    I'm not saying that the woods are FULL of drunken hunters, although
    there are those that go into the woods altered.  The other end of
    things is that there are many who go into the woods with mean
    hangovers and are probably not in the best shape to make a judgement
    between a rock and a hard place, much less deciding whether to fire
    their weapon.
    
    Personally, I haven't hunted in quite some time, but I wouldn't,. and I
    stress wouldn't, go into the woods hunting with someone who was
    shitfaced or hung over horribly, probably would try and keep them from
    endangering others, too.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
        My three Uncles all hunt. They go with about 6 other guys up to
    Vermont. They consume about 10 cases of beer and 3 or 4 bottles of
    either Yukon or Wild Turkey, BUT THEY SAY IT"S TO KEEP EM WARM.
    
    
     A couple Friends from Digital all drink when they go out. Matter of fact
    one chased a deer across a back yard with a knife after it hit the deer
    with his car. A little girl saw the bloody deer trying to run awat
    through her yard. Thank god she didn't see what happened when he caught
    the deer.
    
    
    Chap

While I agree with Mark that most hunters I've run into (and remember
I don't hunt, so I've usually encountered them hiking or like that)
are responsible hunters, I have heard stories of irresponsible people hunting.

While I don't hunt (it's just not my thing) I don't mind hunters, especially
the responsible one.

I do own and use guns (handguns primarily, but rifles too) and the one
golden rule is never drink when you're going to be near or handling a firearm.


'Saw

>    
>     A couple Friends from Digital all drink when they go out. Matter of fact
>    one chased a deer across a back yard with a knife after it hit the deer
>    with his car. A little girl saw the bloody deer trying to run awat
>    through her yard. Thank god she didn't see what happened when he caught
>    the deer.
>    
    
Maybe it would have done her good to see someone putting away a wounded
animal, rather than just letting it go.

I had a cousin who trailed a deer for 10 miles one afternoon (well, 10
by dead reckoning, we didn't measure) to finish it off, rather than wonder
if it was wandering around wounded.


'Saw

    
    
>>I do own and use guns (handguns primarily, but rifles too) and the one
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    handguns are easier to use in convenience stores, huh Saw????
    
    JaKe
    

    
>> Maybe it would have done her good to see someone putting away a wounded
>> animal, rather than just letting it go.

    I agree. I think it would have been therapeutic for her to see someone
    slitting Bambi's throat and disembowling the harmless little forest 
    creature.
    

    
    
        Especially after he slit the Deer's throat it still wanted to fight
    and he had to use a belt to pull back on the deer's head till it
    stopped fighting.
    
        Yeah real good for her to see.
    
    
    Chap
    
    

    >    I've been hunting for 20 years, my Dad nearly 40.  We've hunted in
    
    you should take a rest, you must be exhausted!

    
    
    >>					disembowling the harmless little forest 
    >>creature.                  
    
    'specially if he was a "real man" and ate the thang's heart, hot and
    raw, like I've HEARD is a macho duck thang.
    
    JaKe
    

>    I agree. I think it would have been therapeutic for her to see someone
>    slitting Bambi's throat and disembowling the harmless little forest 
>    creature.
    
    Especially an OJ cut down to the bone where you could pull its head
    off.

 >> 'specially if he was a "real man" and ate the thang's heart, hot and
 >> raw, like I've HEARD is a macho duck thang.
                                    ^^^^
    
    Yeah, them ducks just ooze testosterone.    
    
    

Can we rename this the Gunphobe knee-jerk note?

daryll

    
>>Can we rename this the Gunphobe knee-jerk note?
    
    If yer referring to me, DO ME!!!!
    
    I ain't against anyone owning or discharging or doing whatever they
    want wif guns, I go shooting wif my father in law 4 or 5 times a year,
    what I am against is the drunken assholes that go into the woods and
    act irresponsibly, and I know a few peoples that don't hesitate to tell
    you their "war stories" and a few who tend to brag about the time they
    "went hunting drunk as a skunk."
    
    I mentioned a freind who got killed by a drunk brandishing a 30.06. 
    Here's the scoop.  About 7 years ago, he went hunting with his father,
    father-in-law, and 14(or was it 16)year old son, who was hunting deer for 
    his first time(the kid, that is).  Well, they stopped in a clearing to
    eat and just take a breather, and even though they're all decked out in
    hunting orange suits/hats/everything, this drunk puts a bullet just
    above John's left ear, and the right side of his haid exits all over
    the kid.  
    
    This kid has been thru a lot of mental problems since then, and has
    finally got his life together, but still is haunted by his dad getting
    blown away less than 3 feet from him.
    
    The drunk spent 6 months in the slammer and is now free as a bird, and
    probably doesn't think twice about it, while this kid has the scene
    permanently etched in his haid, and always will.
    
    I think anyone caught hunting while drunk should have the barrell of
    his gun shoved up his a$$ and the trigger pulled until the weapon is
    emptied.
    
    JMNSHO
    
    JaKe
    

No I wasn't referring to you specifically. I do not hunt. I never 
have. I have no intention to ever hunt. I do have friends and 
relatives that hunt. They do not drink before or during the day 
they are out. 

What I'm seeing here is folks who are making generalization a new 
artform. Some know people who get stinkin drunk before they go 
out. That proves nothing more than the people you know are 
morons. Period.

Many more people go out and get falling down drunk and then get 
behind a wheel. Therefore everyone does it right?

The majority of hunters out there are safety conscious, 
law-abiding citizens. Those are the facts.

daryll

    Jake, one of my best friends from college was killed by a drunk driver.
    Drunk drivers often boast of how much liquor they can hold.  
    
    What's your point?
    
    Mark.

Jake,

I don't hit convenience stores -- I prefer fast food restaurants and video
stores, that way I can either eat or browse for the latest release while
I'm holding the joint up.

Some handguns are easily concealable, some are not.

I don't know what the law is in Pennsylvania, but in CT, if you have a pistol
permit, you must carry the weapon concealed.  If it is not concealed, or
if you haven't concealed it very well, you're subject to a harrassment charge
at the very least.  

For example, you've got a sweater on and you've got a little Browning .380
in a belt holster.  You're in 7-11 and you reach up to the top shelf to
get some Cheez-Its.  Your sweater rides up and a little old lady sees your
gun.  Unbeknownst to you, she calls the cops.  You have your valid permit,
but the cop does take you aside and tell you that you could get into trouble
for what just happened.

So, in CT, concealed means concealed.  I have several ways of carrying my
guns, if I'm carrying.  If I'm going to the range, I have a "range bag"
which contains my ammo and places for several pistols, magazines etc.


CT just pulled a fast one on us LACs (Law-Abiding Citizens).  Used to be
if you had a concealed weapons permit, you could buy a gun and leave the
store with it that day.  Since 1 October, the gun dealer has to verify your
permit with the State Police Weapons Unit (they are the ones who handle that
stuff).

Only problem is that the weapons unit is undermanned, a total paper
organization (no computerization yet) and the line is always busy.  They've
lost a $25 check I sent them, and it's been a bitch trying to get in touch
with them (phone or mail) to work the problem out.   Not good.


As to putting down the deer with a knife -- if you take the knee-jerk out
of it, and you look at it objectively, slitting an animals throat is probably
one of the most humane ways (save for a round through the brain) to put
it down.   Butchers have known that for centuries, as did the Jews at
Masada....


'Saw

re: wait period for gun

I'm pretty sure that is part of the Brady bill, Feds, not state.

The Crazy Met

>re: wait period for gun
>
>I'm pretty sure that is part of the Brady bill, Feds, not state.
>
>The Crazy Met


No, it's not.  Despite the Brady Bill, in CT, if you have a pistol permit,
prior to 1-Oct you could leave the store with the gun.  I know, I bought one
in August.  8^)

CT has had a two-week waiting period for people who didn't have a permit for
a number of years, ostensibly so that a background check could be performed.

I guess the rationale was that if you passed the check to get a permit, they
were not going to have you wait for another check.


My only gripe with this new "validation" is that they are not set up to
quickly and efficiently do it.   You cannot get through to them on a phone
line, and their system is not computerized.  If it were, terminals could
be set up in places like Sports Authority, or Hoffman's Gun Center, and
a computerized check (similar to a credit card authorization I'd think)
could be performed....

'Saw

    
    >> As to putting down the deer with a knife -- if you take the knee-jerk 
    >> out of it, and you look at it objectively, slitting an animals throat 
    >> is probably one of the most humane ways (save for a round through the 
    >> brain) to put it down.   

       Neutering pets is pretty humane but I don't think that I'd want a
       six year old girl witnessing that either.

    

>
>       Neutering pets is pretty humane but I don't think that I'd want a
>       six year old girl witnessing that either.
>

Depends on how its done.  I've seen what they do to bulls and believe me,
it's nothing *I'd* want to watch again.  8^)


I know what you're saying, but I guess I'm just giving the guy the benefit
of the doubt.


btw, down here if you hit a deer and it's still alive, you're supposed to
call the Game Warden.   If you hit a deer and kill it, you're supposed to
callthe Game Warden.  Then, supposedly, you have a choice.  If the deer
damaged your car, you can make an insurance claim but cannot have the
deer.  The deer is turned over to the prison system, I believe, for
meat.   If you choose to keep the deer, you can't make the insurance claim
on your car.   It's pretty bizarre.

I've been lucky.  The times I've had deer run in front of me, I've had
plenty of notice.  I usually stop in time, turn off the headlights leaving
the parking lights on.  I've seen whole "families" of deer -- doe and fawns
or yearlings or whatever they call them -- walk across the road in front
of me.  Course, I'm usually on some backroad out here when that happens.
It's such a pretty sight.


'Saw
    

    
    I almost ran into an elk with my motorhome when I was fishing weekend
    before last.  Stupid thing just stood there, and I'm trying to keep on
    the road and off the elk.  It was a nice sized one too, I coulda fed
    everyone in here for weeks.  
    
    
    Anyone ever see how they cut the tails off of puppies?  THAT is cruel. 
    Poor little things just got there eyes opened and ain't sure WHAT it was
    that just got twisted off of them.
    
    brews

    
> btw, down here if you hit a deer and it's still alive, you're supposed to
> call the Game Warden.   If you hit a deer and kill it, you're supposed to
> callthe Game Warden.  Then, supposedly, you have a choice.  If the deer
> damaged your car, you can make an insurance claim but cannot have the
> deer.  The deer is turned over to the prison system, I believe, for
> meat.   If you choose to keep the deer, you can't make the insurance claim
> on your car.   It's pretty bizarre.
    
    And we're supposed to believe that Connecticut is an all-around decent
    place to live?  ;-)
    
    glenn
    

>    And we're supposed to believe that Connecticut is an all-around decent
>    place to live?  ;-)
    
Unless you're a deer it is....

There's been quite a controversy lately over game management relating to
deer.

Seems that there is an overpopulation of deer, and they want to open the
hunting up a bit more -- more deer are starving and more orchards are
being "raided", but there's a faction that doesn't want to do that.

There's not exactly a surplus of a deer's natural predators down here, so
it would seem hunting is the only other way to manage the population size,
save for starvation....



re puppies:

	Why would anyone want to take a dog's tail off?
	Is it for like dog-showing or something?  Seems pretty mean....



'Saw    

re: deer

Is this the season when deer heards are at their biggest?

I've seen deer in the most unusual places the past couple
of weeks.  Once right by an exit on rt. 495 in Westford,
and once in some pretty shallow woods I run in.

=Bob=

>
>Is this the season when deer heards are at their biggest?
>

Not sure.  I don't know much about how they mate and stuff.  I know that
they usually have their babies in the spring, I think.

>I've seen deer in the most unusual places the past couple
>of weeks.  Once right by an exit on rt. 495 in Westford,
>and once in some pretty shallow woods I run in.

About six weeks ago the dog and I scared up a buck while we were out walking
through a new housing development area up the street.

Deer are smart critters and don't come out much around hunting season.
I don't know when the season starts around here, not being a hunter....

    Where I started from with my point is in .212.
    
    I never said ALL HUNTERS ARE DRUNKS.
    
    JaKe
    

    My wife's family are ALL HUNTERs,they hunt everything everywhere and
    when there not hunting there fishing (BASS, the only real fishing)..
    
    But lets think about this, my father in law is in a lull he hasnd
    landed a dear for 7 years now (Dry Spell) he calls is.  So here's a guy
    how gets up everyday during the hunting season (NO HUNTING ON SUNDAYS)
    at 4am to get ready for first light (cant go into the woods when its 
    dark can you ?) stays in there until he goes to work then comes out of
    work goes hunting until dark, then all day on saturday... 
    
    Now lets think about what he does, sometime's he sits in a tree stand
    ALL DAY, sometimes he wonders thru the woods, and this whole time he
    has some sort of loaded weapon ???
    
    I think all hunters need to GET A LIFE :-) No wonder there are so many
    accidents, these guys have to be bored stiff, they see something move
    and they shoot it.
    
    Seems like every year somewhere in New England there is a hunting
    related death and im sure there are many unreported injuries (My father
    in law was had some buck shot in his leg from an accidental discharge).
    
    I think its dennis leary (ON HBO) who jokes about the NRA's bumper
    stickers. "Youll get my gun when you pry it from my dead bodies hand"
    Ok whatever :-)
    
    Go to any Liquor store in Vermont/NH/Maine and ask them how much there
    sales go up during Hunting season, and then tell me that most hunters
    dont DRINK when they hunt...
    
    								mab

>         -< Of course these accidents are more STUPIDITY then DRUNKs >-

Good think you don't hunt then, Mab....


>    My wife's family are ALL HUNTERs,they hunt everything everywhere and
>    when there not hunting there fishing (BASS, the only real fishing)..

So what's wrong with that?  Maybe they enjoy it.  

I can think of many a fine, relaxing hour spent on the bank of a pond, 
worm on hook, hook thrown in the water, sitting back against a tree, feeling
the sunlight, listening to the water....  I could honestly care less if
a fish bites that hook, and most times, unless it's a nice trout, I toss
it back anyway....

    
>    But lets think about this, my father in law is in a lull he hasnd
>    landed a dear for 7 years now (Dry Spell) he calls is.  So here's a guy
>    how gets up everyday during the hunting season (NO HUNTING ON SUNDAYS)
>    at 4am to get ready for first light (cant go into the woods when its 
>    dark can you ?) stays in there until he goes to work then comes out of
>    work goes hunting until dark, then all day on saturday... 

Well, he likes to hunt -- what's wrong with that?

You can't hunt before first light -- that's game laws.

    
>    Now lets think about what he does, sometime's he sits in a tree stand
>    ALL DAY, sometimes he wonders thru the woods, and this whole time he
>    has some sort of loaded weapon ???

I don't hunt, but my cousins do.  The way they hunt, they put one guy
in the stand, and the other two drive games towards it.  

And yeah, if you're hunting, you usually have a loaded weapon -- even if
it is just a camera.   If you're walking through the woods with an unloaded
weapon, it's more like hiking, not hunting.

btw, how does he "wonder through" the woods?  Is that like some kind
of existential, paranormal thing he does with his mind?

    
>    I think all hunters need to GET A LIFE :-) No wonder there are so many
>    accidents, these guys have to be bored stiff, they see something move
>    and they shoot it.

They have a life.  They enjoy being in the woods and hunting game.   Me,
I just enjoy being in the woods, especially this time of year.  I don't
like to hunt.


>    Seems like every year somewhere in New England there is a hunting
>    related death and im sure there are many unreported injuries (My father
>    in law was had some buck shot in his leg from an accidental discharge).

Depends Undergarments work well for accidental discharge.

    
>    I think its dennis leary (ON HBO) who jokes about the NRA's bumper
>    stickers. "Youll get my gun when you pry it from my dead bodies hand"
>    Ok whatever :-)

That's right.  But it goes like this

	You can take my gun when you pry it from my cold dead fingers.


>    Go to any Liquor store in Vermont/NH/Maine and ask them how much there
>    sales go up during Hunting season, and then tell me that most hunters
>    dont DRINK when they hunt...
    
Of course, the fact that hunting season is a colder time of year, when there
is less outdoor activity and things slow down, in exceedingly rural
areas where there can tend to be alcohol problems to begin with, wouldn't
have anything to do with that fact, right?

Nope, it's all them drunk hunters who're out there right now, maybe outside
your backyard in, where is it, Athol?, waiting to shoot your son or your
daughter if they're wearing anything other than International Orange....


Sheesh, wait'll I do my research and publish my paper on drunk NBA fans
who worship Mikey Air_Nathan Detroit Jordan......

                 <<< Note 57.243 by MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS >>>
         -< Of course these accidents are more STUPIDITY then DRUNKs >-

  >  Seems like every year somewhere in New England there is a hunting
  >  related death

     Seems that everyday somewhere in New England there is a 
     drunk driving related death....
 
  >  Go to any Liquor store in Vermont/NH/Maine and ask them how much there
  >  sales go up during Hunting season, and then tell me that most hunters
  >  dont DRINK when they hunt...
   
   Prove it. Post the numbers if you have them. 

   I doubt it. I'd bet that sales increase during the summer and 
   at the holidays. The rest is just noise. 

   daryll

    Bumper Sticker seen in the Meadowlands Parking lot
    
    
    Ted Keddedy's car killed more people than my Gun !

    
    
    
          Well I don't have this in writing, but. My buddy works for his
    father (he owns a Package store.) He told me that MORNING sales of
    alcoholic beverages has a LARGE SPIKE during the October/November
    time frame.
    
            Now maybe this is just kids playing hookie or drunken football
    fans getting ready for the big HS games on Turkey day!
    
    
    
    Chap

    One thing you can always count on, when you start taling about how many
    people are killed by guns (Accidental/Crime) you always get these
    people who point to other things that kill.  So becuase people drive
    cars (Drunk or not) and poeple are killed in car accicents it should
    be ok for people to carry guns and kill people.....
    
    I know Ive used this logic myself sometime in trying to prove a point,
    doesnt make it right.  I would never VOTE against someone haveing the
    right to carry a gun but anyone who doenst think its just too easy to
    bye/carry a gun is fooling themselves.  1 person shot and killed by a
    gun is too many.  People always look at it "That will never happen to
    me" but when and if it every does I bet it would change some minds.
    
    Yup Im up in athol, HUGE hunting country around dis her parts.  Ive
    talked to several teenagers and they said that GUNS are not common in
    there schools.. So hopefully at least my kids wont have to worry about
    getting shot in school just so everyone has the right to carry a gun.
    
    								mab

    RCASO is alive.
    
    Mark.

    
    
         MAB,
    
    
          'cept for them 3 boys who went down to Florida and killed that
    old fella. The one that did the shooting had brought a gun into school
    just 3 weeks earlier (1st ever case of this). BTW he stole the guns
    from some Mountain man up in Vt.
    
    
    
    Chap

    >    RCASO is alive.
    
    yeah, but he changed his name.  I wish I could find my decoder ring!

So there's a huge spike in the sale of alcoholic beverages in Oct/Nov.

Please connect that to hunting for me.  Please eliminate all the other
possibilities of what it could be.


There will always be hunting accidents.  And there will always be an
element in any activity (hunting, driving, golfing, boating) that is stupid
and irresponsible.   But let me clue you all in on something.   Lumping
all hunters together based on a stupid hunter you've seen or heard of
or if you just don't like hunting, is the same as lumping an ethnic or
racial group together....  Same difference.

  I don't lump hunters together with the drunks. If people want to hunt then
that's fine. 

  I still say, however, that most hunting is not a sport because the two
competitors are not evenly matched. Using a shotgun against a pair of antlers
is hardly a sport. It's as much sport as having the Dallas Cowboys with
equipment play tackle football against a junior high girls touch football team
in tee-shirts and shorts. 

  Now one hunter hunting bear with a bow and arrow seems to come a lot closer
to being a sport (as long as you don't take a gun along for protection). There
is an even chance that you might get the bear or the bear might get you.
Either is equally likely to end up being the other's supper. 

  Lion with a cross bow also seems about even, that would be a sport.

  But shotguns and ducks? No way. That's just gathering food. That's about
as much sport as when I pull up to the window at McDonald's to collect my
Big Mac and fries.

  George

>So there's a huge spike in the sale of alcoholic beverages in Oct/Nov.

Football?

                 <<< Note 57.248 by MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS >>>
     -< Very tricky subject, If I live in the city, would I have a gun ? >-

  >  So becuase people drive
  >  cars (Drunk or not) and poeple are killed in car accicents it should
  >  be ok for people to carry guns and kill people.....
   
   No one has said that in this note.
 
   The point that we're trying to make is that we don't damn 
   every driver on the road as a drunk because of the actions of a 
   few. Yet people insist on doing just that with hunters.

   Silly isn't it?

   daryll

                                                  
    
    
    	The thing that frosts me about incidents like these (the dog
    shot with an arrow out behind the house) is that it is so easy for
    jerk who did it to get away.
    
    	It should be easier to identify the jerks who are out in the
    woods. Something like when you get you hunting license, the state
    should issue you a mandatory orange vest, with an ID number in large
    black numerals, front and back.
    
    	Then at least, when somebody does something stupid and/or criminal
    at report can be filed with a description more concrete than "Some
    guy with a gun and an orange hat shot my dog"
    
    	Caught in the woods without your numbered vest? Hunting without a
    license.
    
    	I believe one of the reasons that the vast majority of
    responsible hunters take it on the chin all the time, is because the
    jerks can get away too easily.
    
    	Somebody with a loaded weapon just shot your dog. Do you walk up
    to him and demand he show you his ID??? I think not....
    
    JimH
    

I'll agree that it's not evenly matched. If it were, every hunter 
that walked into the woods would come out with something almost 
all of the time. They don't do they?

Reminds me of the skiing line: "Downhill skiing isn't a sport. 
You're at the top of a mountain where else are you going to go 
but down? Go up the hill on skis, that's a challenge."

Oh and please save us the shrilled, "If it saves just one life" 
pablum ok?

If you want to use that arguement, be prepared to use it for 
anything where the risk of death exists.

daryll

RE  <<< Note 57.257 by SALEM::DODA "Clowns to the left, jokers to the right" >>>

>I'll agree that it's not evenly matched. If it were, every hunter 
>that walked into the woods would come out with something almost 
>all of the time. They don't do they?

  No, if it were evenly matched, then when a hunter went into the woods there
would be an even chance that he would come out with supper or end up being
something's supper. 

  George

    -2 Im not sure if that if it saves one life was too me, I didnt say
    ban guns if it will save one life, I said one person shot and killed
    is too many (Especially if its your spouse/child).  And most people
    could care less and have the "It will never happen to me" Attitude
    when its someone they never knew that got killed....
    
    This is just one of about 500,000,000 things that are wrong in this
    world....  Im not sure what kills more Vehicle Related accidents or
    guns but clearly I can live my life without a gun not so sure I could
    without transportation...
    
    								mab

    
    
    
          I didn't say there was a spike in OCT/NOV, I said there was a
    spike of MORNING buying of booze. Now what reason would that be
    Hmmmmmmmm. Maybe......more early afternoon cocktail parties in early
    Fall?
    
    
    Chap

Football season. Games start at what noon-1pm? Smart folks might 
want to get out and pick up beverages/snacks before they settle 
in for a day of football. Certainly a valid explanation, but, it 
doesn't fit your agenda does it?

daryll

    
    
       All during the week Smart guy!
    
          Most Packise are closed til noon on Sundays By the Way???
    
    
    Chap

Of course, how could I miss it. Liquor store starts selling more 
booze in the AM once fall/winter arrives. Obviously it's because 
all the hunters are loading up for their next outing. It's so 
obvious I don't know why I couldn't put 2&2 togther.

How stupid of me.

daryll

  Maybe it's the other way around and it's the hunters buying all that liquor 
that causes fall and winter.

  8*|}

  George

    what's the best all-purpose gun for a rancher to have?

  His wife's when she finds out?

  George

    Hot off the presses...don't miss this one...check your local 
    bookstore today!
    
    
    "Homonyms: there fun!" by <guess who>

    Does it matter, who cares.  I would never say ALL (100%) of the hunters
    drink before hunting, but Id say I personally know approx 25-30 Hunters
    and at least 1/2 do.  And Ive heard (Second Hand) that HUNTERS are
    great costomers to all those mom and pop liquer stores (The Owners LOVE
    THE HUNTERS).  Now I dont know if its because the hunters make good
    conversation or are buying alot of booze, but I can guess.
    
    How many hunters do you know that carry a flask (Claiming its too help
    keep them warm) ??? Be Honest, Alot of them do..
    
    Of course just becuase they all/most/some may have a drink doesnt mean
    it effects there thinking (Just sometimes).... Same as with driving,
    can anyone (Other then people who just dont drink) say they have never
    ever driving a vehicle after having 1 drink.  My wife has a 1 drink
    rule if Im driving AT ALL she wont let me have more then 1 beer.
    
    								mab

    What did he say?

    
    Winchester 30-30

I handle firearms.

I drink.

However, you'd have to go a long way to make the point that I drink while
handling firearms.

You can't equate the spike in liquor sales with hunting unless you eliminate
a lot of other factors.


'Saw

    
    	There's only one effing "smart guy" in this note Chappy....
    
    Claybone

    
    
        Thanks ClayBone. That means alot coming from you.
    
    
    
    Chap

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------Note
    57.253                   Official Hunting Note                   253 of
    274HELIX::MAIEWSKI                                      21 lines 
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
    
>    It's as much sport as having the Dallas Cowboys withequipment play 
>    tackle football against a junior high girls touch football team
>    in tee-shirts and shorts. 
    
    Careful there, George.  Members of the Cowboys have been known to go to
    jail for just this reason.  Don't act like it don't happen.
    
    brews

  Good point.

  George

    ...and their leading scorer of all time did it!

That there 30-30 might be a bit on the small size but it really comes
down to what you're trying to accomplish.

For killing vermin, you want to make sure it's gone if'n you hit it. And
there's a lot of game for which a 30-30 will be underpowered. Long
distances and/or wind may also be contraindicated.

A 30-06 fits the bill but it might be a bit much for your ol' lady to
handle. In which case you caint do much better'n a .243.

TTom

Get a vintage M-1 Garand rifle.   A bit heavy, but according to Gen. George
S. Patton, it was the finest rifle he'd ever seen.

'Saw

  Of course if you want to take out the neighbor's pickup truck in one shot you
might want to consider a WWII type bazooka. 

  Then again if you are looking to wipe out the neighbor's ranch and your
counting in square miles instead of acres like the rest of the country you'll
probably need something of a thermal nuclear variety. 

  But I still say the best gun a rancher could have in his possession is the
one that belongs to his wife and the best time to have it is when she finds out
that he's been play'en under the sheets with the lady what run the saloon. 

  George 

No, seriously, the M1 is a good rifle to have.  A lot of rifle teams use
it in competition.

Our Rifle Team has generally used the 1903 Springfield (bolt action) and
just recently cut over to the AR-15.  But, the main practice rifle with
most of the guys has been the M1.

I can't get my hands on a bazooka, but I know where I can get my hands
on a WWII Japanese light machine gun.....8^)


'Saw

    .270's and 7mm rool!
    
    Mark.

    I already have an M1.  
    
    You should see some of the WW2 weapons a friend took off of victims in
    Europe.  Some cool Nazi and French guns!

Continuing from the NFL note:


                <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                  -< SPORTS >-
================================================================================
Note 9.3675            The National Football League (NFL)           3675 of 3677
MTWAIN::BURROWS "Volkl: Smoke'm if you got'm."       25 lines  20-JUL-1995 11:49
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

|Penalty for posession of any firearm without an FID card is a "mandatory" one 
|year jail sentence.  I don't know the penalty for having a handgun without the 
|LTC, even though you may have an FID.
|
|I don't know how this applies to non-resident travelers.

I think there is something special you can get.



>If you think this is complicated, you should see the &%$$##?!! you have to 
>go through (includes classes, etc. and arbitrary approval of your local police 
>chief) to get either of these.

It's not too awful bad down here, but it does vary by town.

In CT you apply for a town permit first ($15).  Mine was from Hebron.
Since the State Police cover Hebron, I underwent a State Police check, was
fingerprinted and the prints were sent to the FBI who did a standard FBI check
on me.  

After you receive your town permit, you can then apply for a State Permit ($35)
which allows you to carry anywhere in the confines of the State -- except for
the following places:

	o Federal or State Court buildings

	o Military bases

	o Legislative Office buildings.

There are certain places that have signs that don't permit carrying but I'm not
sure of the legality of that....


'Saw

Hey Igot the drift.

Don't even go up to New England/MA with a gun.

Sheet, if'n they'd outlaw rifles in gunracks in pickups, there'd be some
really uncivil war downt there here parts.

But I am getting a_NC concealed permit and I have permits to have my
handguns so maybe they'll overlook that Jesse Helms is one or our
senators and give me a permit for up there, too.

If not, they up theirs...

TTom

>But I am getting a_NC concealed permit and I have permits to have my
>handguns so maybe they'll overlook that Jesse Helms is one or our
>senators and give me a permit for up there, too.


When you get your NC permit, it can't hurt to apply for the Mass permit.

Gimme a shout.  I got a buddy that's got all the information on obtaining the
application and getting the permit....  It's just a lot easier if you already
have a valid permit from another state.

'Saw

Will do.

We start to get 'em around the firsted of December. It's one per person
than you can carry any weapon that is otherwise permitted. Each handgun
requires a separate permit to purchase/own.

TTom

>We start to get 'em around the firsted of December. It's one per person
>than you can carry any weapon that is otherwise permitted. Each handgun
>requires a separate permit to purchase/own.

Wow.  That's pretty stringent.


Although it's probably a variation of what we have here.  When you purchase a
handgun, certain paperwork to "register" the gun goes to a division of the
State Police.  It's probably similar to what you will have.


'Saw

Yeah, ours is done through the local sheriff. It costs 5 bucks per permit
which is good for one handgun. Supposedly they check you out for priors
and the like.

About the screwiest handgun law in NC is that you can wear one out and
about, anywhere, in fack, except where it's explicitly stated that you
caint. Going to the gun shows is really a sight to behold!

Like with a lot of things, I act like a real sap when it comes to guns.
Everything I have is legal, with all the proper permits, etc. I won't
even buy a sawed off shotgun, making do with my Mossburgh 500 ACPs that
have a legal, 18�, factory barrel. Now there's a real six shooter!

TTom

>
>Like with a lot of things, I act like a real sap when it comes to guns.
>Everything I have is legal, with all the proper permits, etc. I won't
>even buy a sawed off shotgun, making do with my Mossburgh 500 ACPs that
>have a legal, 18�, factory barrel. Now there's a real six shooter!
>

Nothin' wrong with that IMO.

I'm all for owning guns, and I'll even put up with some of the bs laws that
make it more difficult for regular folks to own guns, but the crooks find a
way around, but I want everything above board.

In CT you cannot carry any way but concealed.  If you're carrying concealed and
someone spots it (ie you haven't been careful to conceal it) you can be cited
for harrassment.

If you're carrying without a permit, it's a felony.


I basically have my permit for two reasons:  1. I like to shoot.  It's very
relaxing, and it's a very satisfying thing to hit the 10-ring on a target.
There's almost a little zen involved, I think, and when you hear of the really
good guys, who squeeze the round off between heartbeats, it's pretty cool
stuff.

2. I go into a very bad area of Hartford on a regular basis at hours which are
   not conducive to being there.  It never hurts to be prepared.   At other 
   times I'm on jobs that require us being in bad areas of other places, and 
   again, it never hurts to be prepared.


Those were the two reasons I put down on my application, and I was approved.


I don't have a shotgun yet, but I'm probably going to get one before the year
is out.  I'd like to try skeet shooting sometime.  It looks like a lot of fun.

And I'm still waiting on getting my M1.  A place in California sells completely
reworked, refurbished, re-machined surplus M1s, but they want $995 for one.

I can get a surplus one in good condition, that maybe needs some stock work for
a lot less....


'Saw

re: shotguns

One nice thing about Mossburgs and I guess a lot of other shotguns is
that you can buy one shotgun with a variety of barrels. In a manner of
moments you can remove the 18"er and put on a long one, with or without
choke for skeet.

I've tried shooting skeet with the short barrel but end up frustrated and
shooting the dang ol' skeet machine instead ;-).

TTom

>One nice thing about Mossburgs and I guess a lot of other shotguns is
>that you can buy one shotgun with a variety of barrels. In a manner of
>moments you can remove the 18"er and put on a long one, with or without
>choke for skeet.
>
>I've tried shooting skeet with the short barrel but end up frustrated and
>shooting the dang ol' skeet machine instead ;-).

That's funny.


My brother has a Mossburg I believe.  He also got a "magazine" extender before
they became illegal.  He can hold 7 rounds instead of 5 or something like that.

Kim's brother-in-law has a Remington he wants to sell, and that's probably what
I'll buy.

I don't hunt, never could get into it, but skeet sounds like fun.  I'll make
sure wherever I go that the machine is shotgun proof...8^)

    
    	Skeet tastes like chicken..........
    
    Claybone

The hardest part about going shooting is preparing all the targets.

You gotta drink that beer afore plinking the cans...

TTom

>
>The hardest part about going shooting is preparing all the targets.
>
>You gotta drink that beer afore plinking the cans...
>

Yeah, and them Bud and Miller cans don't stand up to punishment like those
Black Label and Piels cans -- so if you want GOOD targets it's harder still.



Claybone --

I'm writing a cookbook for skeet.  Let me know if you want some recipes.  8^)

    
    
     You want real targets, try the toner powder recepticle for a LN03. That 
    black power gives you instant news of your hit.

>    
>     You want real targets, try the toner powder recepticle for a LN03. That 
>    black power gives you instant news of your hit.
>

Now THAT's an idea!

And we got about a dozen or so of 'em that don't work.

Hail, I'll just take the whole printer. Keep shooting until you caint
recognize it. I like to stand real close to make sure I really blast it.

TTom

Old VT100s make WONDERFUL targets.

>Don't even go up to New England/MA with a gun.

Don't include all of New England.  You and your gun are welcome in
New Hampshire !

Live free or die.....

re: New Hampshire

I shoulda figgered they wouldn't pry my cold hard stiff hand from the hot
gun or whatever that saying is besides when criminals have all the
bullets only people will get shoot people.

And I do happen to have a_old VT100 (with apologies to the Department of
Redundant Duplicities).

TTom

>And I do happen to have a_old VT100 (with apologies to the Department of
>Redundant Duplicities).

Yeah, I shoulda made my apologies too.

But to me and VT100 ain't quite as old as it might be.  I cut my teeth on 
a_old VT05 (ah yes, the ought-five) and a VT52 (gotta love them colored keys).

So, a VT100 was a GREAT technological improvement for me when it came along.


'Saw

My VT100 has them neat l'il colored keys. At the time, I coulda had one
with a WPS keypad tyoe insignias, but I wasn't into that sorta thing
then.

TTom, who still thinks ^S/^Q was pretty clever

Yep.

That was made back when we had our manly Blue logo.  

Now with the kinder, gentler, wussier "Maroon" logo, we don't use manly things
like ^S/^Q any more.  We have a key for that.  

I still caint figger out the new logo.

Firsted of all, I see some version of |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| most often without
any (tm). Also, wasn't there some issue about the dots over the is being
sqauer and not round?

TTom

>    that vt100 would make a great tire wedge.

Is that where you walk up behind the tire and pulls his draws up and
outta his pants?

TTom

re logo:

	No, the dots are round now.  We had to get kinder, gentler and
	wussier.

	The "g" is softer too...  and the letter blocks are closer
	together.   Something about being "warmer"....


	Buncha bullshit if you ask me.


re tire wedge:

	TTom is right, but it only is a tire wedge if you do it on extremely
	plate-stackable folks...like Sid Fernandez or the Chainsaw...


'Saw

Okay, I'll say it here too -- stop it.

Well, as I might have mentioned, about two or three weeks ago I went out
with my buddy to shoot his M1 Garand.  It was a good trip and I learned more
about the rifle than I had known before.

Yesterday, I bought one.  Hoffman's Gun Center in Newington was having their
annual sale and there was 10% off surplus guns.  They had some M1s to pick from
and I got the one that seemed the best of the lot.  A couple of small nicks
on the muzzle but not near the bore, and it was missing a stacking swivel.
(Not like I'm going to be stacking arms any time soon).

I like the way the M1 handles -- it has less recoil than the Springfield '03,
because the gas is bled off to work the action, and it's a sturdy piece.
The damn thing weighs 9� pounds, but you don't really notice it at first.

I bought a couple of clips for it.  The one drawback of the rifle is that it
holds eight rounds, but you can't (that I know of) remove a partially fired
clip and top it off.  When you've fired off the eight rounds, the clip ejects
from the breach with a little "ping."  I've heard from some WWII vets that the
enemy used to listen for that ping and then make their move.  Always helps to
have a buddy with you I guess.

In another week or so I'll take it out and fire some rounds through it and see
how it goes.  I've got a 30 day money back on it, so there's no real rush.

The M1 is an excellent rifle for competition.  Most of my friends who shoot
competitively shoot them....


'Saw

The thing I like about the M1 Garand is that even if'n you run outta
ammo, you can bludgeon the beer can to death. I've always wanted one
myself and have had to settle for the largesse of others.

I guess I better just get me one. I mean if'n Saw has one, shouldn't all
of us just be honest and get one too?
^#)

TTom

>The thing I like about the M1 Garand is that even if'n you run outta
>ammo, you can bludgeon the beer can to death. I've always wanted one
>myself and have had to settle for the largesse of others.


Had a very interesting discussion lasted week with a Lt. who was describing the
changing theory of warfare and why the M16 is better than the M1.

His point ran like this:

	o Takes 3 enemy support personnel for each enemy KIA

	o Take 6-9 enemy support personnel for each enemy WIA

	o Therefore, better to WIA than KIA.

	o From that point he argued that the M16, with its .223 ammo
	  will do a better job of that, and is

		a) lighter (the rifle)
		b) lighter (the ammo)
		c) easier to manufacture (stamped parts vs. machined parts)


	o He then asked what rifle we'd prefer if we were out of ammo.
          I answered the M1.  Makes a helluva club, and the bayonet for
	  it is longer and sturdier....


Still, I like it just fine.  If someone's shootin' at me, you can be damn
sure I'm not shootin' to wound.....


'Saw

With the M1 and M16, you have 2 completely different guns.

It's like comparing a Jeep with a Camaro. It all depends on what you're
up to and sooner or later you'll wish you had both or at least the other
one.

Now, if'n you're into plinking the .223 is hard to beat and comes in many
other flavors, like the mini-14.

But I'm 30 caliber kinda guy myself. I'm looking to really shred that
Budweiser can. 

TTom

oops to you, too, bub 8^).

The pname reminds me of a bumper sticker:

	I FISH THEREFORE I LIE

TTom

Yeah.

He was just making the point of how combat has evolved.

The nice thing about the M16 is that there is very little kick, so you
can "two hand it" around corners and over walls and stuff, should you need to.

But like you say, I like the .30-06, full metal jacket.  If'n it's me and them,
let me hunker down in a nice safe spot with lots of rounds.  I'll take a few of
them with me at any rate....8^)


Shoot that little lollipop at 200 yds,
'Saw

>Shoot that little lollipop at 200 yds,

This might be some kinda oxymoron. I mean if'n the guy has a little
lollipop, how can you see it at 200 yds?

TTom

>
>This might be some kinda oxymoron. I mean if'n the guy has a little
>lollipop, how can you see it at 200 yds?
>


At 200 yds, the bullseye on a standard target took pretty tiny.  When you have
your sight picture set up right, that little dot sits right up on top of the
post (front sight) and is centered in the circle formed by the peep (rear
sight).  It looks like a little lollipop.

If'n we were talkin' about a guy's lollipop it'd put John Holmes to shame for
it to be tiny at 200 yds....


hth,
'Saw

    
    
      My favorite.
    
    My wife says if I go fishing again she'll leave,  I'm sure going to miss
    her.
    
    2nd
    
    Work is for people who don't know how to fish.
    

  200 yards, that's about a 3 iron for a pro isn't it?

  George

    
    
    Having qualified with both the M-14 and M-16, I take the m-16. You
    shoot a target at 300 yards with a 14 and the barrel drops before the
    target. With a 16 you see the target go down while looking down the
    sight. Man drawback to the 16 was it needed to be kept spotless. Damn
    thing would jam in a heartbeat if it's seen any mud. The 556mm with the
    223 lead makes for good ballestic speed. It was a glancing round. By
    that I mean once it hit the body the lead would glance off the bone.
    Might enter dead on and come out a 90 degreees.
    
    You hear some say the AK47 was better than both.

Amen all all the things said about the M16.  No kick, light, but you have to
keep it spotless (M60 machine gun too).

The M1 could be dumped in a pile of s__t and come out firin'....8^)


Truth be told, I could easily afford the M1.  You can't get an AR-15 in
CT, but you can now get the Colt Match Target -- same gun, just no bayonet
lug and no flash supressor -- only problem is it is almost $1K.

Guess it cost Colt a lot of money to REMOVE the lug and supressor so they
passed it on to the consumer ;^)

If it was cheaper, I'd have both.....


'Saw

>    
>    I picked up one of those "street sweepers", I needed it for hunting. 
>    I also got some armor penetrating bullets, I needed them for hunting.
>


Last week we had a training session in graveside ceremony and firing party.
There's a guy in the outfit kind of like Forrest Gump, only much less charming
and a lot dumber.

I looked at this guy with a gun in his hands and I was just plain scared.

Somehow that doesn't scare me half as much as the thought of Paul with a gun.


'Saw

>    I'd never shoot another human being -

I don't hunt.  


There are certain circumstance where I could shoot another human being,
but as for animals (Claybone will call me a wussy I'm sure) no way.  I've tried
it, and unless I was starving, it just ain' happenin' for me....

'Saw

Thankfully, I missed em :-)

daryll

Who said anything about hunting and the NRA?

You mentioned hunting.  I mentioned that I don't.


I target shoot.  Trying to qualify for the rifle team....


'Nuff said....

We don't need no steenking hunting.

And we shore don't need no steenking LDUC about hunting, NRA and the
likes. There's a wonderful conference designed for exactly that type of
thing, KP7 and all that stuff...

TTom

I think the only hunter who writes in here any more is Claybone, maybe
Darryl "Camptown Races" Doda....


'Saw

    
    	No way Frank.  You ain't no wuss.  Everybody has their own
    	opinion and is free to make that choice (to shoot an animal).
    	
    	What irks me is the folks who condemn me for hunting but don't
    	think anyting of going to Safeway and picking out a nice juicy
    	steak or some seafood.  They don't have the guts to even think
    	about what goes on in order to prepare them the main course of
    	their chosen meal.  They usually make their remarks about me
    	while wearing leather shoes.  Hypocrits.........
    
    
    	Claybone

So you're OK with flak from vegetarians? :*)

The only hunting I condemn is not really hunting. Spotlighting deer,
shooting animals and leaving them, wounding animals cause you're a lousy
shot, that sorta thing. 

TTom

>
>The only hunting I condemn is not really hunting. Spotlighting deer,
>shooting animals and leaving them, wounding animals cause you're a lousy
>shot, that sorta thing. 
>


Yeah, I agree.

I mean, I don't hunt, but I don't begrudge anyone else their hunt.

But, if you're gonna hunt, do it fair and square...


I know my main main Claybone is a good hunter, so I'd never question him.....


(Roland, that was the equivalent of my "Glenn is objective and neutral", FYI)


'Saw

    
    
         No its not Roland, He has to say that Claybone is his Main main at
    least 50 times to be up there with his Glen Wagiiiman worshiiiiping.
    
    Chap

>(Roland, that was the equivalent of my "Glenn is objective and neutral", FYI)

Thank you for the clarification, 'Saw.  I'm still wondering how I got
compared to Tommy Brydie.  I don't consider it good or bad, just confusing.

I know *squat* about hunting, but I do have one big problem with it.  Actually,
calling these folks "hunters" is a stretch, but they do exist.  I'm talking
about folks who open fire when they're near a populated area without having
absolutely identified their target.

It really hits home for me, since my land abuts 13,000 acres of State Forest
land, and I have a wife, two little ones, and a dog, any of whom could be
wandering around our back yard at a particular time.

This isn't meant to open up any kind of LDUC - just venting a hunting-related
pet peeve.

Roland

    
    	A big amen for Roland.  Not only should they identify their
    	target but they also should know what is beyond their target
    	if'n they miss (ie don't shoot at something silhouetted against
    	the sky - like  on top of a ridge).  I've run into my share
    	of slobs out there.  They are a small percentage overall in my
    	experiences.
    
    	Claybone  

A lot of these "hunters" are scary.

I've been fortunate.  Most of the folks who used to hunt around the house
in Hebron I either knew personally, or knew of, and knew they were good
hunters.

I'd say that I'm fortunate in my target shooting pursuits that most folks are 
safety conscious enough, but there's still the story about the dumb guy who 
had a hang fire, got excited, jumped up from the port, turned around with his 
rifle, and almost blew the armorer's head off.   Needless to say he was 
drummed out of the outfit right quick.....  He was lucky that's all it was.
The armorer back then was a big s.o.b. who wanted to get a few licks in first.


Some folks just never get it....


IMO, Claybone is a good hunter.... 

(Roland, that's me sucking up to Claybone 8^))


'Saw

I don't hunt and haven't fired a weapon in over 10 years (skeet).
I have a problem with people who like to pick and choose which 
sections of the BOR and constitution they'd like done away with.

Charles Schummer D/NY leads the shrill bunch of em.

daryll

>I don't hunt and haven't fired a weapon in over 10 years (skeet).


Daryll, you ever try that skeet lightly broiled and smothered in a 
marsalla sauce?   YUUUUUUMMMMYYY....8^)

The hat trick! Woodies, Hitler and now flag burning.

No more calls folks we have a winner. Take 'im out and have him shot.

&')

TTom

    
    	I saw a great t-shirt the last time the flag burning issue
    	came up.  It read:
    
    			
    		"BURN THIS ONE A$$HOLE!" (t-shirt had the stars n stripes
    					  on it)
    
    	Claybone

I don't get all jazzed up about flag burning.  

I mean, all them veterans that fought and died did it so some a__hole would be
capable of doing that.

You can burn the flag, but you can never burn what it stands for and what it
means.


'Saw

    
    	Final score from last Saturday's hunt for the elusive
    	greenhead:
    
    			ducks  7
    		     Claybone  3

Yes, Claybone, but adjusting for park effects, you only
had 1.8...  :-) :-) :-)

I'm gonna pick me up one of them slings and try to get some groupers and
snappers whilest under water.

You caint bring your spearguns.

TTom

    
    	Rollin' Roland!  Hey, I'm a poet and didn't know it.
    
    Claybone

	I can see it now.  The ducks rolling in and diving out of the sun,
	bombs at the ready, the lead duck in the vee drawing a bead 
	on the USS Claybone's head.

	Suddenly the USS Claybone opens up with its anti-duck-craft gun	
	and downs three of the diving duck-craft.

	But seven get through and deposit their bombs right on the
	USS Claybone's head with a resounding splat.


	Not a pretty sight, but then we all know that war is hell.....

    
    	Nah.  The USS Claybone is 100% stealth.  They didn't know what
    	hit 'em.
    
    Claybone

I forgot to ask, Claybone... were these home ducks, or away ducks?

A "Stealth Claybone"


Now, if I were writing a porno script, I'd have field day with that one....


Them ducks make good eatin'?



'Saw

    
    	They were home ducks.  I doubt any of the northern birds have
    	been pushed this far south yet.
    
    	Good eatin'?  You betcha.  Soaked 'em in orange juice all
    	day yesterday.  BBQ'd 'em yesterday on the grill with a
    	little garlic salt.  Mmmmmm mmmmmm.  :*)
    
    	I was grinnin' at your dive bomber note.  It reminded me of
    	some geese that came over us.  It's not goose season yet so
    	when they flew over us, my partner pointed his finger at them
    	and said, "Boom!".  The lead goose looked down and he let go
    	a large amount of goose doo.  Splatted about 10 feet from me.
    
    Claybone

>    	I was grinnin' at your dive bomber note.  It reminded me of
>    	some geese that came over us.  It's not goose season yet so
>    	when they flew over us, my partner pointed his finger at them
>    	and said, "Boom!".  The lead goose looked down and he let go
>    	a large amount of goose doo.  Splatted about 10 feet from me.
    

Goose doo is nasty stuff.  Nasty stuff.  When it dries up it looks like
little cigar butts.



I'm a little disappointed you didn't invite me over for some duck 8^(

Deer 0 - Clark 0 (OT)

    
    	It was more like Deer 20 - Ron 0. Remember deer is a 4
    letter word.
    
    Ron :^)

    
    	Headin' out in a little while.  The drive should be a load of
    	fun (freezing rain & snow).
    
    	Ya'll be good.
    
    Claybone

	If'n yer freezer gets too full, feel free to send
	some of dat wild meat out this way.

	I'm salivatin' just thinkin' about it.



	billl

    
    Final score:
    
    			Claybone - 1
    			     Elk - 0
    
    			    Deer - 1
    			Claybone - 0
    
    	Sorry there billl.  My elk is getting split up too many ways to
    	fill my freezer.  Maybe next year.  :*)
    
    Claybone

    Never had elk, what's it taste like besides chicken 8*)
    
    Jimbo

Claybone, have the hide tanned and get some mocs or boat shoes made!

I think Elk tastes a lot like skeet, unless you fry it, in which case it tastes
like rattlesnake, which tastes a lot like chicken...

    
    So we tanned his hide when he died Clyde, and that is hanging on the
    shed! Poor elk does not stand a chance against them ARkansas
    sharpshooters.

    
    	Elk tastes like.......elk.  :^)
    
    	I gave the hide to a taxidermist, Roland.  For future favors
    	of course.
    
    Claybone

  Elks taste like beer. That's because they drink so much. They wander around
in packs called "clubs" which oddly enough have numbers rather than names and
when ever they assemble they drink gallons of suds and burp a lot.

  Strange species those Elk,
  George

	I ate elk once while I was stationed in Alaska.  A neighbor
	had gone out on a 'hunt' and came back with all sorts of
	different meats (elf, moose, bear, caribou).  He then put
	on one of the best feeds I've ever attended.

	As I recall the elk was pretty similar to moose, but not
	as fatty.  BTW, moose tastes nothing like chicken.



	billl

>    	I gave the hide to a taxidermist, Roland.  For future favors
>    	of course.

Hope so.  I've got a pair of Quoddy boat shoes made from elk hide.  10 years
of wear, not even close to ready for the scrap pile...

    
    
    Murderer!!

>          <<< Note 57.381 by OUTSRC::HEISER "watchman on the wall" >>>
>
>    re: -1 
>    
>    that implies that I kilt them.

     So, you ate them live ?  Kinda like goldfish, right ?

>
>     So, you ate them live ?  Kinda like goldfish, right ?
>


Well, I've hesitated to say this, because I doubt anyone in here would resort
to it, but 




	It could been ROADKILL!


YEEEEE_UK!

    
    	Bagged me a BSEE on March 23.  It'll soon be hanging on the
    	wall.
    
    Claybone

    
    
    Congrats on recieveing your skin there Clay!!

  BSEE, let's see.

  Big ... Slow ... Enormous ... Elephant ??? no, 
  Big ... Slow ... Emaciated ... Elephant ??? no,
  Big ... Silver ... Energetic ... Elephant ??? no,
  Blue ... Southern ... Electric ... Eel ??? no,

  ... I give up, what's in the bag?

  George

      good job Claybone!
    
      Tim

Congrats my man.  Well deserved, well earned.

Tell me now, does it taste like chicken?

    
    	Thanks all.  The stalk was a long one.  No 'Saw, it does not
    	taste like chicken.  It tastes like......."Victory!" ;^)
    
    Claybone

>    	taste like chicken.  It tastes like......."Victory!" ;^)
>    
>    Claybone

Stop it Claybone!  You'll give me a woodrow....

>    	taste like chicken.  It tastes like......."Victory!" ;^)

... and smells like napalm ...

So was it one of those high speed kinda chase things where you pulled it
over after a chasing it down the interstate for a couple of miles and
then beat the crap outta it?

Now that's a manly sport :=]

TTom

>So was it one of those high speed kinda chase things where you pulled it
>over after a chasing it down the interstate for a couple of miles and
>then beat the crap outta it?

If it hadn't run, he wouldn't have had to beat it so hard.

I think we need a couple more VPs to investigate this shameful episode.

TTom

    
    TTom,
    
    	It were slow and agonizing.  But it's done!
    
    Claybone

>    	It were slow and agonizing.  But it's done!

When it comes to VPs, the slow and agonizing part fits like a glove.

But it never ends, the race goes on Judah...

TTom

    
      I was out in the back yard hunting squirrels the other day.
     I almost got one too. But I wrecked the car when he ran up a
     tree.
    
                 _Emo Phillips

>    
>      I was out in the back yard hunting squirrels the other day.
>     I almost got one too. But I wrecked the car when he ran up a
>     tree.
>    
>                 _Emo Phillips


Emo is hysterical.  His delivery and everything is so, so, so....psychotic.


TTom:

	Shameful, fits like a glove?  Hmmmm, where have I heard THAT
	before.


'Saw

    
       I saw a homeless man eating out of my garbage last week.
      It really bothers me to see another human being eating out
      of the garbage.  
    
      So I made him this really nice racoon costume. But do you 
      think he wears it?
      
    

Emo greatly benifits from the fack that he looks funny.

At the start of the -.1, I thought we were gonna get something more on
VPs...

TTom

He has a joke that he does that I don't completely remember, but it's something
like

	You know it's going to be a bad day, when you wake up and
	realize that you have to kill several members of your
	immediate family for being possessed by the devil.


Emo cracks me up.

	You know it's going to be a bad day, when you wake up and
	realize that you have to kill several managers of your
	immediate unit for being possessed by the devil.

TTom

>	You know it's going to be a bad day, when you wake up and
>	realize that you have to kill several managers of your
>	immediate unit for being possessed by the devil.

Change the last line to 

		complete flaming a[CENSORED]s  

and you're close to the point 8^)

Wail, it's time to gear up for the nexted annual Bug Hunt.

Heading to Key West to go underwater as the state lets you dive for
lobsters for a couple days afore the commercial season starts.

They're the spiny kind with no pinchers so they're relatively easy to
catch with a little prodding stick and some nets. 

The onliest problem is with the other wildlife which in Key West is
manifest. Biggest danged ol' barricudas I ever saw. The sharks are mostly
of the timid and non-lethal manner. Also, thanks to Bertha, I'm expecting
the water to be closer to pea soup than Cayman Islands.

You're limited to 6 per person per day. What we usually do is have
several people who don't really dive and we get six for them, too.

TTom

    
    Do lobsters hunt people?

Not the ones that I hunt.

They taunt you, make noises and faces at you, tell the sharks and 'cudas
about you, but they pretend like they're defenseless.

I wouldn't turn my back on 'em, at least not in a group. One-on-one
they're nice enough but they're given to the mob mentality.

TTom

I survived the deep encounters with the large and unusually aggressive
larry and barry cuda as well as my firsted encounter with a shark of the
bad kind.

We went bug (aka spiny lobster) hunting in Key West where the wild life
reign supreme. Normally, intruding into their space is OK if'n you stick
to the bugs.

Thised time, we were with a couple of other guys and they decided they
wanted to do some spear fishing. The net effect was very few fish and a
whole lot of chum. Larry and Barry thrive on this and worked theyselves
into a suitable fury. About anything that moved got their attention.

Meanwhile, in the nexted channel, I met a genuine black tip shark. He was
only a teenager and not full grown. He was about 6 feet and the master of
his domain. He made it quite clear that he ran that section of town and
that I could either slink away or he's run me off. All the while he was
coming at me I kept thinking that he prolly was a much better swimmer
than me and that I'd best heed his notice and beam.

Other than that, good times were had by all, catching the limit of 6 per
day relatively easily. Got in a couple of days of Dolphin fishing. These
are fish, folks, so don't fret about your friendly faux mod killin
Flipper.

TTom

    
    Do fish spear hunt humans?

Them that gots a spear, do.

When you're down under, you're in their domain and in places like Key
West they're liable to gig, chew, gnaw or spear you.

TTom

  Two China zoo staff eat endangered deer

   BEIJING (Jan. 30) - Police have arrested two staff of a zoo in central
   China who killed and ate an endangered white fallow deer, officials
   said Thursday.

   Police in Wuhan, Hubei province, detained the two after their Jan. 23
   feast, a zoo official said. The two men entered the deer pen, broke
   the deer's neck, cooked and ate it, the official said.

   The Wuhan zoo had just bought three of the endangered deer that live
   in southern Europe for $480 each.
 

Maybe they did it "Just for the Zen of it..."