Conference hbahba::cam_sports

Is BC really tied for the lead? Nice to see SU tied for the cellar. Hopefully
Seton Hall will keep them there. Should be a good game tonight. Will someone
please force John Thompson to retire!!!!!!!

mike

    
    Oops!  Didn't see this topic here so, see 14.1 and 14.2 for some B-E
    stuff from the weekend.
    
    Ifg I knew how, I'd move it but I ain't a bit haid technoweenie so I
    won't.
    
    I remain,
    so happy to be back at the lockerroom!
    Kev
    

>Nice to see SU tied for the cellar.

Don't feel too happy Mike.  You SU-haters say the same thing nearly every
year (when SU struggles at the start of the BE regular season), yet at
the end....

I'm not sure how to read this team.  They're struggling from the perimeter
(supposedly their strength).  Autry ain't makin' it happen at the point,
and McRae just hasn't improved to the next level in the pivot.  And with
Wallace being a freshman, the defenses are keying on Moten (quite often
double-teamed), leaving SU with a struggling offense.

They looked pretty good Saturday night against Miami (was there in person).
Autry finally came alive.  He's the key (as is any college team's point guard).
He sets the rest of them up.  He's following The Pearl and The General, and so
far has been a disappointment.  His game is man-to-man, full-court basketball,
and he doesn't always play with intensity.  He does very little against zone
defenses.

Hopkins (despite popular belief) doesn't have an outside shot, and really
isn't a good 2G.  Lucious Jackson had a great game off the bench Saturday.
Three 3-pointers.  He really is coming into his own at this level.  I
stated earlier that it appeared that with Harris red-shirting this year,
Jackson was being groomed for the starting 2G spot in '93-94.  After Saturday
night, he may get more time this year than I expected.

Edwards' suspension is great, as far as I'm concerned.  It means Lazarus
Sims gets minutes this year (as he did Saturday night).  When he went in
for Autry, all of the sudden there was ball movement around the zone.
No coincidence that when Autry returned his battery was recharged and
he started making things happen....gotta love good healthy competition.

ONE (David Johnson's) graduation has left a big hole in this team.
I think Wallace is a very good player (23 pts Sat), but he's still a
freshman (6 turnovers).  Autry, Jackson and Sekunda need to give SU
more than they have so far.

    
    
    Yabbut,
    
    Tonight on ESPN @ 7:30
    
    SU Orangemen @ SH Pirates.
    
    hth!
    
    I remain,
    just trying to help!
    Kev
    

    what are ya talkin about Kev?

    quick with the move key, eh Mike?
    
    I remain,
    slower on the draw, I guess.....
    Kev
    

    Caught wind of some comments the hoops-knowledgeable Steve Nazzaro made
    over in the Boston C's notes conference about the BigEast and thought
    they deserved some kudo's.  Here's a guy who, despite living in the
    NorthEastCorridor, where every main, womain, and child is brainwashed
    into believing that:
    
    BigEast == CollegeBasketball_at_its_best
    
    is bucking trends and discovering what's obvious to the rest of the
    country.  Namely:
    
    1. BigEast basketball is boring.  Too much fouling, too much
       "defense", too much ball control.
    2. BigEast recruiting is way down, resulting in less talent and
       therefore less interesting/exciting games.
    3. BigEast basketball is now on a level playing surface with the 
       Atlantic10.
    
    Question is, are things going to get any better?  Tough to be overly
    optimistic.  The early returns show the BigLeast has continued its
    trend of signing good players but not great ones.  Only one (1) outof
    the Top25 players in the USA signed with a BigEast team, and there's
    only 1 or 2 top-flight players left unsigned.  Add in the Syracuse
    probation and the demise of the Georgetown program and you're lookin'
    at problems, people.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Watch it there Subway,
    
    Not all us KNORReasterners believe the BigEast is the cat's meow,
    KNORR do we all like the conference.
    
    Watcheth thine generalities,
    MikeL
    

    
    > Not all us KNORReasterners believe the BigEast is the cat's meow,
    > KNORR do we all like the conference.
    
    Yeah, ACChris, basically who even cares?  After football season it's
    wake me up for the tourney time...
    
    glenn
         

    This is how Nazz (a 4 letter word btw) ranks the B-E and the A-10.
    I wuz pained to see his #17 and doncha know I sent him off a note real
    quick tellin him he wuz wrong and mebbe should stick to "Lap Sitting
    Contests"!  ;^)
    
    
        <<< OOBIE::OOBIE$DKA200:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOSTON_CELTICS.NOTE;1 >>>
              -< Welcome Back to the Boston Celtics Conference! >-
================================================================================
Note 67.431                    College Basketball                     431 of 442
TNPUBS::NAZZARO "Why won't BC play UMass?"           28 lines   7-JAN-1993 14:37
                 -< A-10 is better this season, top to bottom >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    IMO, Cheaney will be a mediocre pro at best, as he is too small to
    be a force at SF and doesn't have the ballhandling skills to be an
    off guard.  Right now, he reminds me a lot of Kevin Gamble.
    
    As for the A-10 vs the Big East, Seton Hall is the best team in either
    league.  After that, I'd say UMass and GW are next.  Here's how I'd
    rank all of the teams in both leagues if they were combined into one:
    
    1) Steon Hall
    2) UMass
    3) George Washington
    4) UConn
    5) West Virginia
    6) Georgetown
    7) Temple
    8) Rhode Island
    9) BC
    10) St. Joseph's
    11) Pittsburgh
    12) Providence
    13) Rutgers
    14) St. Bonaventure
    15) Miami
    16) Villanova
    17) St. John's
    18) Syracuse
    
    NAZZ

    The recruitment of Rasheed Wallace could very well be a bell-weather
    for BigEast basketball.  He's one of only a couple unsigned Top25
    "impact" players and he happens to live in the heart of the BigTVeast.
    (Philadelphia, PA)  The fact that he hasn't already signed with a
    BigLeast school says something.  This C/BF has the whole package and
    *will* be a collegiate big-timer.
    
    His personal "Final 4" are as follows, with my comments added:
    
    1. Temple.  Obviously influenced by this schools close proximity to
                home.  Perhaps mom and/or dad hold Temple as a sentimental
    	        favorite.  Signing Wallace would be a coup for John Chaney,
    		but it takes a special kindof player to want to put up
    		with the crap he dishes out.  (i.e. 5:00am practices,
    		constant zone defense and slow-down style)  Gotta list this
    		as a long-shot.
    
    2. Georgetown	In bygone years JohnThompson woulda had this kid in
    			his back pocket.  A 2nd big guy to go w/ Othell
    			Harrington?  Return of the Twin Towers?  Heaven you
    			say.  Obviously Rasheed has other ideas or he'd
    			already have signed.  Gougetown might be a good
    			choice for him, cause he wants to play PF.  So why
    			hasn't he signed?!  Dunno.
    
    3. Villanova	Another hometown favorite.  My own thoughts are
    			that if he wants to play in the BigEast he should
    			go to Georgetown cause then he cain play PF.  At
    			'Nova, he'll be a Center forever.  
    
    4. North Carolina	Ah, now we're talkin'.  Perhaps the reason Wallace
    			hasn't already signed with Georgetown (or anybody
    			else) is cause he was hopin' Dean would come 
    			knocking.  Carolina got in on the "Wallace
    			Sweepstakes" late because they were waiting on
    			academic testing results.  I don't know what those
    			are, and I'm worried about Rasheed's temperamental
    			performances.  (Cliff Rozier brings bad memories
    			to Carolina fans.)  Working in UNC's favor is that
    			we've already got a 7-footer being redshirted
    			(Zerge Zwikker) who's good, allowing Wallace to
    			play PF, UNC has absolutely nobody in the wings
    			to play PF, and, a_course, nobody preps big men
    			for the NBA better than Dean.
    
    The guess here is that if he's an academic qualifier he'll sign with
    North Carolina.  IMO, he's an absolute necessity for the BigEast if
    they want to salvage any kind of "good" recruiting year.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    2. BigEast recruiting is way down, resulting in less talent and
>       therefore less interesting/exciting games.
>    Question is, are things going to get any better?  Tough to be overly
>    optimistic.

Hey Chris, if the BE isn't getting any real good players now, I suppose
it's possible that in the future, when all of the best players in the
country are in the ACC, Big 10, Big 8, SEC (and these schools have no
scholarships left to give), the recruits may be forced to accept a
scholarship from the likes of little ol' Georgetown, or lowly, pond-
scum-sucking Syracuse.

> Hey Chris, if the BE isn't getting any real good players now, I suppose
> it's possible that in the future, when all of the best players in the
> country are in the ACC, Big 10, Big 8, SEC (and these schools have no
> scholarships left to give), the recruits may be forced to accept a
> scholarship from the likes of little ol' Georgetown, or lowly, pond-
> scum-sucking Syracuse.
    
    Who said anything about "in the future".  That's *already* the case. 
    The B10 and ACC have been smoking the BigEast the last 5 years in both
    on-court performance and recruiting.  The last few have seen the SEC
    and Big8 pass the BigEast in terms of recruiting success.  The on-court
    results are proving this out.
    
    Compare the upper-tier stars to sign with the BigEast against the ACC,
    Big10, SEC, or Big8 and you're gonna find_a discomforting disparity.
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    Caught wind of some comments the hoops-knowledgeable Steve Nazzaro made
    
    Is that like "Break Wind"?

    
    
        ACC Chris.. " Nobody Preps big men Like Dean Smith.  ?????????
                       JR Reid
                  
                  Ever Heard of Mutombo, Ewing, and Mourning?
                        Chappy

After reading Nazz' combined A-10/BE standings, does anyone take him
seriously ?  If you do, you're as much a fool as he is.  UMass among the
top 3 (or was it 5) ?  6-4 UMass ?  I've seen pieces of 2 of their games
and have been very unimpressed.  Can anyone score on this team ?

And Villanova is at the bottom of his list...and Syracuse is last.

    
    I hate to provide ACC_Chris with potential stuff but he MIGHT
    have a point of value if ya consider that lasted week, the
    Syracuse-Georgetown game wasn't on network tee vee!
    
    I remain,
    wondering the Lasted Time that happened?
    Kev
    

>    and Big8 pass the BigEast in terms of recruiting success.  The on-court
>    results are proving this out.

Chris, are you including last year's Big8 NCAA on-court performances in
mind in making this statement.  And when you're talking about the ACC,
please give me something they've done (on and off the court) after Duke,
NC and GT.

I believe SU lost some TV time once the probation was announced.
I'm sure I saw schedules both before and after the announcement and
SU lost some TV games (definitely one CBS game).

    Joe, Joe, Joe.  [Insert face of ACC Chris sadly shaking his head as he
    realizes da_oder_guy just ain't gettin' it.]  Are you trying to somehow
    deny the unmistakeable evidence that the BigEast just ain't what it
    used to be?  Are you (truthfully, under oath) steal tryin' to pull the
    wool over our eyes, like so_much NorthEastCorridorMediaPropaganda? 
    Cain you site *any* objective evidence to prove your case?  [No.]
    
    My suggestion: Belly up to the bar and admit that there's a problem.
    		   Don't be like Digital in the 80's and wait_and_wait_and
    		   _wait until it's too late.  Own up to the fact that the
    		   BigTVeast is in decline and write letters to your
    		   congressman, newspaper, and league commisioner.  Enter
    		   notes in this conference recognizing there's a problem,
    		   and outline steps on how they can be corrected. 
    
    In the meantime I have absolutely no problem with you rooting your guts
    out for your beloved Orangemen who, BTW, had pretty darn good
    basketball long before Dave Gavitt came along.
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC  Chris

Chris,

Tell ya what.  Whenever you decide to show some honesty regarding Deans
woeful failure to produce with some of the greatest talent ever, then
perhaps some of the Big Easters may come forth.   But since you've never
been man enough to come clean about Dean, and given your convenient
disappearance from the file, how can you be trusted.

You already made it clear in past files that you don't like the Big East
because fans were 'struttting their chests' in the 80's.

And remember, last year, the ACC and Big-10 had more TV exposure then
the Big East - so your TV-claims, as usual, are wrong.  

2 more seasons for the "Greatest Recruiting Class of All Time" to get
a champeenship under the guidence of THRC.

JD

PS:  Nazz ratings are a joke.  UMass is living off last year's magic.
I'm perusing the Top 25, searching for some of those powerhouse Atlantic
10 teams.

P.P.S.  Can someone explain the infatuation the pollsters have with
Florida State?  9-5 and still ranked.

    
    Yabbut lasted night, JoSH's team hosted a visit from the Syracuse
    orangemen at the exit16W Meadowlands.
    
    SH won, 80-73 to bring their B-E record to 4-0 (best ever for them).
    
    SU is now 1-4!
    
    SH isn't widely regarded for their defense but last night SU shot ~38%
    from the floor.  Saturday night they did the same thing to PC.  What
    gives?
    
    Luther Wright, 7-2 center looks like he dropped about 50 pounds and is
    solid!  Last year he had so much blubber that when he came down from a
    rebound_attempt, it took about 40 seconds for the fat to stop
    vibrating.  This year, he's in shape and sorta does whatever he wants
    around the basket.  
    
    Hurley, Hurley, Hurley.....
    That name is beginning to make me puke!  I've been Hurley's to death!
    Anybody catch the faux pas lasted night when the ESPN guy called SH's
    (Danny) Hurley "Bobby"?  This kid's playing pretty well, learning from
    his brother over the summer but sheesh, change yer name OK kid?
    
    I remain,
    looking foward to SJU on tee vee tomorrow (Wednesday)!
    Kev
    

    Yea, I caught the SU @ SHU game last night.  (Gotta do some advance
    scout work, cause Carolina's visiting SHU 1/24.)  Couple of
    notes/observations:
    
    o Seton Hall had a *ton* of turnovers.  Gotta be especially galling for
      PJ cause, like Kev pointed out, SU ain't exactly known as a defensive
      powerhouse, 'specially with the amount of zone they play and their
      lackluster talent level.
    
    o The 3-pointer that Moten forced up at the end was a game-ender. 
      Absolutely horrid shot selection.  No patience on their offensive
      end whatsoever.  Plus they threw the ball away *twice* in the last
      2 minutes against a very passive 1-3-1 defense.  Not good.  Not
      good at all.
    
    o Anybody catch PJ's act at the end of the 1st half, screaming (and
      I do mean *SCREAMING*) at Terry Dehere all the way from the court
      to the lockeroom.  I absolutely *detest* this kindof thing.  I didn't
      see much of first half so don't know how bad Terry was playing, but
      *nobody*, repeat, *NOBODY*, deserves to be humiliated on national
      TV like that.  This was a page straight outa one of BobKnight's
      sorry books.  
    
      The ultimate point is, if you have to yell at somebody, why not
      at least wait until they get into the lockerroom and outof the glare
      of ESPN's cameras and the 15K spectators on-hand?  I also question
      how effective these tactics are.  Jim Calhoun had a player quit on
      him recently cause he was fed up with his intimidating yelling/
      screaming and his (Calhoun's) response was "You should expect that
      at this level".  Is that true?!  Should someone "expect" to be
      verbally abused just cause they're playing Div.1A basketball?  Does
      Dean humiliate?  [no]  Did Wooden humiliate?  [no]  Heck, CoachK
      will scream and yell at a kid at practice, but I've NEVER seen him
      scream at a kid in front of TV/spectators.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Maybe Dean should yell at his boys a little more, maybe he'd get the kind
of results that Bobby and PJ recently have gotten. We're not talking little
kids here. We're talking supposedly grown men who if they need to be yelled
at should be able to take it.

Big East basketball while in a slight decline is still enjoyable. It would
have been impossible to keep up the torrid pace they set in the early and
mid eighties. Plus you throw in the facts that the Final Four has become
such BIG business and so many new conferences have been formed that the
talent pool is much more spread out across the country. 5 or 6 years ago
no way a California gets a Jason Kidd. Plus the play in the Big East should
speed up a bit with the exception of Thompson because the new coaches and
younger coaches realize that the kids want to play uptempo. Also going back
to the 5 foul rule instead of 6 should clean up the play. Looking at the
scores this year many games already played have gotten into the 80's with as
I say the exception of Georgetown.

take Duke out of the ACC and the Big East would probably have more Final
Four Appearences is the last 5 years than the ACC. So in reality this so
call superior ACC attitude you have is based on the success of Duke and
no one else. Don't that just make your day, Chris???

mike

    If ACChris says that the Big East is in decline, does that mean that he
    admits that they are/were a powerhouse?

Chris, I caught your little jab at SU's inferior talent...you're really
trying too hard to compensate for what you believe is my incorrect view
of things in the BE.

Maybe you believe that you have to get superstars to have a top pgm.
I don't.  I think a good pgm can be built from good players throughout
your 12-man roster, that's why I've said that SU has more talent on
this team than any other in their history.

I'm very serious when I ask for the following information:

	Since you have information on rankings of HS players (and I'm
	assuming you have this for the last few years), could you provide
	me with Syracuse's HS player rankings ?  eg: Top 25, Top 100,
	Top 5 point guard, etc...

	Their roster and current recruits, and the year the player graduated
	from HS:

	Mike Hopkins ('88),  Dave Siock ('88),  Conrad McRae ('89),
	Michael Edwards ('89),  Adrian Autry ('90),  Scott McCorkle ('90),
	Lawrence Moten ('90),  Glenn Sekunda ('91),  Lazarus Sims ('91),
	Anthony Harris ('91),  Luke Jackson ('91),  J.B. Reafsnyder ('91),
	John Wallace ('92),  Otis Hill ('92),  Charles Gelatt ('93),
	Todd Burgan ('93)

I know for sure that McRae, Autry, Harris and Wallace played in McDonalds
All-Star games.  Moten obviously is a terrific talent.  Sekunda was Mr.
Basketball in NJ; Harris the same in Conn.  Gelatt is supposed to be one
of the best power forwards in the east.

I've gone through this before, and you're ignoring it.  You must have
something else to base your judgements on.  So give me the info you're
looking at so I can be straightened out.


As for last night's game:

	-  SU's shooting % has been down all year, so don't credit SH's
	   defense too much

	-  Moten's shot was a very poor decision...but he's just a sophomore,
	   and I love that he wants the ball in the big moment

	-  SH did commit a lot of turnovers, but they shot extremely well
	   (Raftery said it was their best game all year), and had to to
	   win that game...anything less than their 55-60% from the field,
	   and they lose on their home floor

	-  SU's 2 killer turnovers were by a center (who shouldn't be
	   in the corner passing the ball), and a freshman...cut 'em
	   some slack, they committed only 2 turnovers in the 2nd 1/2,
	   8 in the game


At this rate, SU will be in the lower 1/2 of the BE Tournament bracket.
Which one of you guys wants 'em in the 1st round ???

    
    Just a nit,
    
    SH actually shot 51%.  
    
    I remain,
    nitpicking dastistics(tm)
    Kev
    

If recruiting guarenteed champeenships, Dean would have a truckload
of rings by now.   But recruiting is only part of the game.  

JD

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't SU 1-4 in a league that BigEastBigot
    MChilds admits is in the midst of a down year?!  
    
    'Nuf said,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    Didn't we hear this same tired old refrain about a conference in
    decline directed at the Big Ten a few years back?  And didn't the Big
    Ten bounce back, if it had ever even slipped in the first place? 
    Again, who cares?
    
    glenn
    

    
    Yabbut while SU may be 1-4, SH is 4-0.
    
    so what's the diff?
    
    I remain,
    grinning and wondering what anybody has to say about NC State's record!
    ;^)
    Kev
    

NC State beat that powerhouse Davidson. Great road win for the Pack. But
then again, I'm a little prejudiced since I actually attended the school.

TTom

>         -< No need to rate talent. Results speak for themselves ... >-

Chris, I'm genuinely sincere.  I really would like to see the national
ratings of these kids.  I can't believe that I'm reading comments from
analysts who don't know what they're talking about...year-after-year.
I mean, since Pearl, SU has had a highly regarded recruiting year
every year.  The Owens class was ranked #2 (and Hopkins and Siock
are still here), and the Moten-Sekunda-Harris-Jackson-Sims-Reafsnyder
class was ranked #8.  And then Wallace-Hill, and now Gelatt-Burgan.

    re: Joe
    
    The key point in my analysis of the downward spiral of BigEast
    recruiting is NOT that the league as a rule is having "bad" recruiting
    years.  On the contrary: they're getting "good" players.  Syracuse
    currently has lots of "good" players.
    
    The problem is that they're not getting the great ones.  The Billy
    Owens'.  The Pearl Washington's.  The Patrick Ewing's.  The Rasheed 
    Wallace's. The Bobby Hurley's.  The Grant Hill's.  The Jerry
    Stackhouse's.
    
    Moten-Sekunda-Harris-blah-blah-blah are good players.  They're players
    that'll put you in the Top 25, perhaps.  They *won't* put you in the
    Top 5, or even the Top 10.
    
    If you look at the Big East right now you've only got one (1) team in
    the Top 10.  Realistically Seton Hall is a *very* long-shot to win a
    Title.  The league simply has dropped a notch because, for whatever
    reason, they are not getting the great HS talent.  
    
    Now, let's agree and move this discussion along and maybe we cain
    figure out what the problem is.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Now that we understand that the BigEast is not getting the Great
    players, let's try to understand why.  Here's a few theories:
    
    1. Weather.  The ACC offers nicer weather in the spring/fall/winter
    (i.e. when school is in session).  Mighty big diff between Providence
    in February and Wake Forest.  (Goes without saying that the, er,
    "scenery" at Duke/Wake/UNC is more attractive than, say, St. John's
    too!)
    
    2. 6 fouls vs. 5.  The 6-foul rule in the BigEast (now rescinded, thank
    goodness) hurt the aesthetics of the game because it promoted too much
    fouling.  
    
    3. Overcoaching.  The likes of_a JohnThompson or Rollie Massamino and
    their insistence to be the main attraction instead of the players leads
    to boring games in the 60's, not exciting games in the 80-100's.  
    
    4. Style over substance.  The Big East was clearly a made-for-TV
    affair.  Perhaps when a recruit made his on-campus visit and compared
    the BigEast with the competition he was a tad disapointed in the
    BigLeast.  I mean, there's a big difference between Louie and JT
    bear-hugging and exchanging sweaters and a Dean vs. CoachK blood-bath!
    
    5. Football.  That's right, football.  Unlike the BigTVEast, the ACC,
    et al. have legitimate rivalries in *all* sports, not just basketball. 
    The BigEast, when stacked up against the competition, might just come
    across as a bit 1-dimensional.
    
    Other theories welcome,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    
         Bad Recruiting???
    
                Chris where do you rate Othella Harrington with the
    rest of this years freshmen class? I here he was rated the number ONE
    big man coming out of HS. Do you guys get the papers down there in NC?
    
             No Conference can stay on top O the world like the BE in the
    eighties but they are still one of the top conferences in the country,
    and again if it wasn't for Duke I wouldn't rate the ACC in the top 5.
    
                     Doesn't GT play NC tomorrow night. What do you think
    NC's Chances are?
    
    Chappy 

    
    Ahem, Chappy....
    
    Chris is in Hotlanta, home of the "whatchamacallit"?
    
    rumor is it they get papers there.
    
    Of course, can they read is another question, for another note!
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    likeing the sport of basketball, primarily.
    Kev
    

Hey Chappy,

Chris does not live in NC. His opinions concerning the ACC and Big East
reflect those from someone who did not attend a school in either of
those conferences.

Please keep the slurs to the point and to the person.

TTom

    I realize Gougetown signed Harrington.  Trouble is, when compared with
    the ACC/B10/SEC, their top-notch-stud-ratio was still woefully lacking.
    Same applies this year.  Only one (1) Top 25 player is going BigEast,
    compared to 4 or 5 to the ACC/B10/SEC.
    
    Git it?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Looking at this week's Top 25, the obvious conclusion is that at this
point in the season *THE* conference has to be the Big 10.

They have 7, count em - 7, schools. The Big East has 5, followed by the
ACC with 4. Regardless of recruiting, coaching, shamery, chokery or
whatever, them's the facks and here they is:

AP Top 25 through Jan. 10

                      Record Points  Pvs        Conf
 2. Michigan (14)       12-1  1,545    3        Big10
 6. Indiana             13-2  1,323    5        Big10
13. Iowa                11-2    701    8        Big10
17. Purdue               9-2    588    9        Big10
19. Minnesota           10-1    441   --        Big10
21. Ohio State           9-2    260   --        Big10
23. Michigan St.         8-3    157   14        Big10

 7. Seton Hall          13-1  1,244    7        BigEast
15. Connecticut          7-2    594   19        BigEast
20. Georgetown           8-2    299   17        BigEast
22. Boston College       9-2    226   --        BigEast
24. Syracuse             9-3    146   21        BigEast

 3. Duke (1)            10-1  1,496    1        ACC
 5. North Carolina      12-1  1,324    6        ACC
 8. Georgia Tech         9-1  1,199   10        ACC
14. Virginia             9-0    687   25        ACC

 1. Kentucky (50)       11-0  1,608    2        SEC
 9. Arkansas            11-1  1,035   13        SEC

 4. Kansas              11-1  1,395    4        Big8
10. Oklahoma            11-2  1,014   11        Big8

12. Arizona              7-2    750   20        PAC10
15. UCLA                10-3    594   15        PAC10

11. Cincinnati           9-1    974   16        GreatMidwest

18. UNLV                 6-1    516   12        BigWest

25. Utah                10-2    145   --        WAC

TTom

    
> The Big East has 5, followed by the
> ACC with 4.
    
    Yeah, I noticed this at lunch.  And this is in spite of the fact that
    ACChris has pointed out to us for at least the past three years that
    the Big East has just had its worst recruiting season ever.  One of
    these days this total self-implosion of the Big East that Chris has
    become pre-occupied with in these arguments with himself will actually 
    occur, I'm sure.
    
    glenn
    

In fairness to Chris Knorr, he has to concentrate on such things as
recruiting and how much money the players make in the NBA. What you
actually do in between is apparently not his emphasis.

TTom

    
    
          Sorry about the Carolina (the States) slur guys. I was just
    trying to find out where ACC chris gets his info. My Fathers from N.C.
    even though he hates sports, he can read I think :-). 
    
         OK Chris explain to us how 5 BE teams in the top 25 and only 4 ACC
    teams makes the ACC a better conference.
    
    Chappy

    BE > ACC?!  Haw haw haw!!!!!  That's rich, but does go to prove how
    manipulative statistics can be.  
    
    For the record, the ACC has three(3) teams in the Top 10 to the
    BigLeasts 1.  When comparing teams 1-for-1 I'd say the only matchup
    favoring the BigEast is last place.  Clearly NC State is worse than
    anybody in the BE.  
    
    Other than that, forget_about_it.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    Tonight's B-E Schedule:
    
    St. John's @'Nova (ESPN 9:00PM)
    DePaul @ Georgetown (Obviously non league)
    
    I remain,
    planning on taking a break from shovelling snow at 8:59PM!
    Kev
    

Chris,

You're leaving the domain of credibility.

>    Moten-Sekunda-Harris-blah-blah-blah are good players.  They're players
>    that'll put you in the Top 25, perhaps.

Moten is a *GREAT* player.  Some had him as the freshman of the year
in the whole country last year.  John Wallace is a *GREAT* player, or
doesn't Parade All-America give him that distinction ?  That's two
GREAT players on one team.  And that team is made up of 3 other
McDonalds' All-Stars, and a couple of Mr. Basketballs.

When it comes to my team, you ain't backin' me down.  I've asked you
to pull your sources and show HS rankings for these Orangemen so we
can determine the validity of your "slipping recruiting" argument.
You aren't going to do that.  So as far as I'm concerned, there
ain't no problem with SU recruiting.

And I look around the BE and see Harrington, Curley, Dehere, Wright,
Smith, Marshall, Miller, McNeal, Scott, Edwards and every team has
big-time recruits.


>    Realistically Seton Hall is a *very* long-shot to win a Title.

IMO, it would be an upset if they don't make the Final 8, and anyone
who gets that far isn't a "*very* long-shot".  The only proper way
to settle this dispute is for NC to play SH in the tournament.

    Hows about Pitt lasted night beating UCOnn????
    
    didn't get to see any of it or hear any of it, but saw the highlights
    on ESPN.
    
    GO Pitt
    
    JaKe
    

    SJU beat Villanova.
    
    BE is back to the usual: hey all beat up on one another.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

What I want to know is how did this kid Kittles of Nova get away from Thompson?
I thought JT had the New Orleans area locked up. The kid is quite a player...
Also Green from SJU was quite impressive. Given time he might replace Cain
at the point....

mike

Mike -

What are you talking about?   Haven't you been reading this note?
Those guys can't be good players, and have no chance of being
great, cuz they weren't in the top 50 of the McDonalds list
or some other list.

Don't you know that the idea of college basketball is to get
the top recruits, and then let them play.   What do you think,
that  its possible for a coach to take an average high
schooler and make him good?  C'mon, Mike, if Dean can't do 
that, then no one can.

JD

(isfh, of course)

>    Hows about Pitt lasted night beating UCOnn????
>    
>    didn't get to see any of it or hear any of it, but saw the highlights
>    on ESPN.
    
UCONN played LOUSY defense.  I didn't watch the game, (I'm not that
much of a hoops fan, and I opted to see the second part of a Roseanne
two-parter), but I did see all the reports on the local news.

I think Calhoun has some good talent this year, but it's gonna take
sometime to season it a bit, so I don't expect much this year.


'Saw    

    
    While ESPN was twiddlin and diddlin during the delay (when they had to
    repair the backboard in the Duke-Wake game) they did a thing on some
    hot shot HS basketball player who has narrowed down his list to 4
    schools - UNC, Georgetown, 'Nova and Temple.  'Nova and Temple
    because they're in Philly (kid's hometown), GU and UNC because of their
    coaches reputation for getting the kid into the pro's.
    
    The thing I thought I heard is this kid hasn't scored 700 on his SAT's
    and that (as reported by ESPN) Georgetown, UNC, and 'Nova have *Never*
    admitted a prop 48 student.
    
    I found that suprising.  Did I hear right?
    
    I remain,
    forgetting who the kid is too!
    Kev
    

    Take a look at note 23.12.
    
    I remain,
    
    Disapointed that Kev doesn't do his homework.  :^(
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    Yabbut here's some (partial) info on the SJU-Nova game
    lasted night.
    
    SJU jumped out ahead, 2-0.  then 'Nova came back to tie it 6-6 then it
    was 6-8 'Nova.  11-8 SJU, 16-15@11:46.  With 24 seconds to go in the
    half 34-31, Nova.  Cain took a shot with one tick on the clock making
    the score 34-33 Nova.
    
    Then I went to bed.  (I did say it was a partial!)
    
    Final score
    
    	SJU 76
    	'Nova - 70
    
    I remain,
    astonished we're tied for 2nd place in the B-E!
    Kev
    

    
    Yabbut but considering the source of .12, that note CAIN'T have any
    credibility!  ;^)
    
    But since I reported what ESPN did, my note is "objective and
    credible"!
    
    'sides, you never mentioned that 3 of the 4 *never* accepted a prop 48
    therefore, it's new info!
    
    Of course I don't do homework, I been watching tee vee!
    
    I remain,
    rolling the vertical hold screw
    Kev
    

>Also Green from SJU was quite impressive. Given time he might replace Cain
>at the point....

Forget about it Mikey.  Cain is MY MAN !!!  An 8th-round pick and the kid
is scoring in the teens and twenties !!!!!!  Mahoney has word from me that
Cain is to stay for the rest of this year...defense of my BE Rotis Championship
depends on it.

    If you guys think ACChris has been bad-mouthin' the Big East, just wait
    til you pick up the new issue of SI - there's an article about the
    demise of the conference and - yes, probably most important of all- how
    they haven't been recruiting the top-notch players in recent years. 
    The article's titled "The Big Least."
    
    
    Joe 

    Listen ya knucklehaids, this SI article (which I haven't seen yet -
    could someone type it in or FAX it to me?) only confirms the obvious. 
    The BigLeast is in a serious state of decline - so much so that even
    SI is on the case.
    
    I wish it weren't true (as that idiotic guy doing the NFL commercials
    said, "I'm a BIG fan!") but the facts speak for themselves.
    
    My advise for you BigTVeast fains is to take a look at my "Theory" note
    and help me and SI figure out what's wrong.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Wow!! Redmen at 4-1 in the BE (9-4 overall; 3 losses to Kentucky,
    Indiana and UConn).  I'm sure this will all get sorted out soon enough,
    but I'm (and Kev too, I'm sure) are going to enjoy this all week; the
    Redmen are off until playing at Syacuse on Saturday.
    
    Redmen Phil
    
    

over the weekend Pitt knock Seton Hall from the unbeaten ranks with a 76-73
victory. Business as usual in the Big Least. If the Big East is in decline
so be it, atleast it's enjoyable basketball where anything is possible. The
talent from top to bottom isn't as dispersed as the other conferences where
the teams at the top are miles ahead of the bottom team. 

mike

    Thanks to the covert work by a BigEast fain of honest integrity (whose
    name shall remain anonymous, lest he be subjected to unfair ridicule or
    maybe even be forced to watch a_entire BigEast game) I've received the SI
    article "The Big Least", written by Alexander Wolff.  Amazingly, the
    man broke little ground from what I've been preaching for awhile (see
    23.36, among others), but maybe the fact that a magazine with the 
    credibility of a Sports Illustrated will force Big East fans to take a 
    look in the mirror, recognize there's a problem, and do what most other 
    top-notch hoop players have done: find another league.  (Haw!)
    
    I'll just hit the high points here.
    
    1. Top 25 recruits signed since 1988-89 (including this year):
    
    	1. ACC	(27)
    	2. B10  (26)
    	3. SEC (14)
    	4. BigEast (12)
    	5. Big8 (8)
    
    2. Jeff Sagarin judged the BigEast only the sixth-best conference last
       year, and he didn't include one of the league's teams in his Final
       20.  (Gulp!)  This year, only SHU (#16) is presently in his Top20.
    
    3. Since placing 3 teams in the 1985 Final 4, the Big East has sent
       only three (3) teams there since.   The league that boasted six
       different schools that reached the national semifinals in its first
       10 seasons hasn't had a single representative in the Final 4 the
       past 3 years.  
    
    The article goes on to describe the "why's", most of which are points
    I've already brought up (that nobody in here wants to acknowledge).  
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    
    Yabbut for those of us who happen to like Big East basketball, here's 
    tonight's special:
    
    UConn @ Georgetown   ESPN     7:30
    
    the night game:
    
    Kansas @ Kansas State  ESPN  9:30
    
    I remain,
    doing my homework on da schedule!
    Kev
    

    > Why won't BC play UMass?
    
    For the same reason none of the BigLeast teams want to play a team from
    the A10 ('specially a halfway decent one like UMass): THEY'RE NOT THAT
    GOOD, THEIR CONFERENCE ISN'T AS GOOD, AND THEY DON'T WANNA HIGHLIGHT
    THE FACT.  
    
    BTW, horrendous scheduling is highlighted in The Big Least SI article. 
    They also point out the fact that it was the *Big East Coaches* who
    wanted out of the BE vs. ACC Challenge.
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Thanks Chris - knew I coulkd count on an objective guy like you!
    
    NAZZ

    
    
    Yabbut there also happens to be a quote in there by Mike Tranghese, BE
    Commish ' "But if you go to the Big 10 or the ACC, and you give them
    truth serium and ask them which conference they fear most, they're
    still going to say us...."
    
    so there!
    
    I remain,
    liking the GAME!
    Kev
    

The Atlantic 10 is perhaps the most overrated noveau trendy 
conference there is.  UMASS ain't that good, nor are any of hte
other schools.

Boy, Jeff Sagarin, who had Nebraska #2 in Football before the 
polls - yeah, he's someone to quote.

JD

    FWIW I agree - UMass isn't that good from what I've seen.  To be fair
    though, one of their best players has been hurt.
    
    
    re: Sagarin
    
    The point, JD, is that the BigEast has long held a (justified)
    reputation as playing a weak schedule, and that's something the Sagarin
    ranking takes into account.  When you consider:
    
    o Villanova lost to a sub-.500 St. Jary's team that UC Santa Barbar 
      later beat 79-37;
    
    o Pitt trailed Cornell by 13 at home before winning 80-72;
    
    o Georgetown defeated the Anteaters of UC Irvine by 4;
    
    o St.John's subdued Niagara by 4 and Hofstra by 2.
    
    Wail, I trust you get the picture.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Chris -

Yawn.

JD

    
    Meanwhilein a different part of da lockerroom the following discussion
    took place.
    
    "Yabbut I know that lasted night Georgetown stomped (many times
    literally!) UConn and won by somethang line 17 points!  Didja know that
    UConn was originally favored to win by 4?"
    
    "Yup, probably had something to do with the game being played at the
    Haffa Civic Center."
    
    "Yup"
    
    "Ya know, this was the firsted time I saw the Hoya's on tee vee thisted
    year and boy o' boy was I shocked with something I saw, or rather
    something I didn't see."
    
    "Like what?"
    
    "Wail, remember when Patrick Ewing started that fashion trend
    of his, ya know, like wearing a undershirt under his playing jersey?
    And then the NCAA made a rool that if he wuz gonna wear a undershirt,
    it would have to be the same color as his jersey?  Remember?"
    
    "Oh yeah, I do 'member.  As I recall, after he started that trend, it
    spread throughout the world and before ya knew it, almost everybody was
    playing basketball in their undershirts!"
    
    "Wail, lasted night NOT A SINGLE GEORGETOWN PLAYER WORE A UNDERSHIRT!!!
    First time in what, 10 or 12 years that they didn't?"
    
    "Wow!  Yer kidding - right?"
    
    "Nope, I ain't"
    
    "Got any ideas why the change?"
    
    
    "Nope, does anybody?"
    
    
    ;^)
    

re: losses to weak teams

Isn't Georgia Tech in the ACC?? Didn't they lose by 17 to College of Charleston
right after they beat Duke?? Guess the ACC is really overrated as well.

The Crazy Met

    
    
              Well by far G'town's best game of the year last night. The
    chemistry was just there. Total dominance by the G'town Big men
    Spencer, Churchwell and that nobody ACC Chris said we have whats his
    name OTHELLA HARRINGTON.
    
      College of Charleston > Georgia Tech > Duke > NC.
    
    Chappy

    
    
    Joey Brown = Thug
    
    Robert Churchill = felon
    
    GougeTown was in full effect last night.
    
    I remain,
    wonderin how fast it'll take MikeC to hop in?
    ;^)
    Kev
    

Well MikeyC just happen to get a ticket from his aunt last night and got to see
the game in person. Super Seats thanks Auntie!!! This was by far the best game
I have seen Georgetown play in 5 years. The chemistry was greatmThompson let
them run, the offensive was as distributed as I ever seen it, they shot the ball
straight and there was no chippiness, no intimatition acts going on. The defense
was solid and ole JT actually left his starters in for most of the second half
instead of the mass platooning style he's used. If he just lets the boys play
and doesn't overcoach we could break the Final Four jinx.

UCONN is in trouble, Calhoun is loosing it. A player makes a mistake he sits
down, that's no way to teach em'. The crowd was as delicious as always, whinning
over every call, disecting every play and just generally having their worlds
colaspe on every UCONN turnover. I LOVE IT!!! OF course I kept my cool though
as I hope Auntie will invite me back.

Oh Cris could you please tell me where Georgetown's recruiting class ranks
this year? The only frosh I've seen better than Harrington is Kidd and you
throw in Spencer and Micoud and I suspect Georgetown finished in the top 5.
If not somebody didn't do their homework.

One of the biggest Big East problem is the refs. They call too much. Of course
it does keep the game more pure. I mean if the Big10 ACC and others wanna let
their boys travel just like the NBA so be it....

As for you Kev, thanks I got my tape. Joey Brown is the best point guard in 
America and they were pushing and shoving Churchwell all night. I'd get a
little testy too....

;^)

    
    'bout time you got in here Mikey!
    
    "...no chippiness....no intimidation...???????????????????"
    
    What game yo at boy?  There was the case of the technical foul for
    "taunting" that Churchwell got bagged on when he did a "in YO face"
    jam or don't you remember that part?
    
    Of course, UConn was polite enough to choke and miss both ;^)
    
    As I recall, and I haven't seen the papers, I think JT played 7 players
    (max) for the game and I'd bet the starters played 22 minutes each in
    the 2nd half.
    
    For a big guy, Othello shure is a sight when he lumbers down the floor,
    eh?  Good, no make that great hustle!
    
    I'll give Joey his due but he's still a thug!  Tee vee don't lie.
    Churchwell should have been arrested for assault, especially in the
    first half.
    
    jmo, of course  ;^)
    
    I remain,
    suprised at how easily GT blew them out in the 2nd half tho.....
    Kev
    

    
    Serving up tonight's Big East funfest has:
    
    Providence @ Miami
    
    My guess is it will by shown on Ch6 (WPRI?) out of Providence.
    Cable fans, get out your rabbit (can I say that in here?) ears.
    
    
    In other games, (ie the ones on ESPN) your treats include:
    
    	Indiana @ Purdue 7:30
    	Kentucky @ Alabama 9:30
    
    
    then it's off to bed!
    
    I remain,
    working the homework
    Kev
    

Othella Harrington is the best offensive big man Georgetown has ever had.
He'll destroy Ewing's and Mourning's offensive stats.  If they get Rasheed
Wallace (who wants to play power forward...a perfect fit at G'town), they'll
be a Final Four-type team next year.

Some other observations:

	-  Rick Barnes is in trouble...I went to the PC-SU game Sat night
	   at the Providence Civic Center and his team is playing hesitantly,
	   and with little emotion...the crowd was very unhappy

	-  UConn is where Syracuse was a few years ago...enjoying big
	   recruiting success (imagine that ?) after a couple of big
	   years, but Calhoun isn't getting the talented individuals to
	   play together...as I said at the beginning of the year, this
	   year will say more about Calhoun's coaching abilities than any
	   of his previous years at UConn  (ie: Smith's gone, he's got his
	   recruits to work with)

	-  SJU is off to a very good start, BUT, a look at the schedule
	   shows that they haven't played:  Georgetown, Seton Hall, Syracuse,
	   Boston College...they have played UConn (lost) and Pitt (won),
	   but the rest of their BE opponents all have losing records

    Anybody want to speculate why the 'Nova - SH game was changed from
    tonight to lasted night?
    
    I was very very suprised to see/hear ESPN report on that game.
    
    Any comments?
    
    I remain,
    still enjoying SJU's position!
    Kev
    

    Joe, I agree.  I'm sitting here wondering when the other shoe will
    drop.  
    
    By the way, this may be a little late, but I saw where NYC G Rich
    Ashmeade left UConn to transfer to Rutgers.
    
    Here's hoping the Redmen put on a good show at the Dome Saturday.  I
    noticed SU activated Edwards for SJU.....
    
    Redmen Phil
                    

    
    I cain't believe my buddy (who LIVES in Noo Yawk) failed to mention
    that the * BIG EAST PLAYER OF THE WEEK * jest happened to be my main
    man (for this reply anyway!) David Cain from 
    
    				SJU
    
    
    
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    so there and stuuf!
    
    I remain,
    considering a raise in Phil's annual fee he pays me to note here
    Kev
    

Kev, are you seriously trying to tell me that the UCONN boys were angels out 
there? Brown and Churchwell didn't do anything to anybody that wasn't already 
done to them....

 Up to now with their 80-71 victory over BC last night, Pitt has to be the
 surprise of the conference. Cmon Evans gag will ya....

 does anyone have the standings. Is SU in the cellar still???

 ;^)

>    I noticed SU activated Edwards for SJU.....

Phil,  Edwards played last Sat @PC.  I don't know why he's back.
Bum-heim is really an idiot.  Why retard the growth of Sims for
a dick like Edwards (who's graduating this year anyways).

I was hopeful that Boob-heim would take this year as an opportunity
to play all his young kids...no matter how raw...to get his returning
team ready for next year.  He is playing Jackson and Sekunda a lot
(Jackson replaced Hopkins in the starting lineup @PC), but Sims should
be getting a few minutes each night, and Reafsnyder should play once
a week, at least.

> does anyone have the standings. Is SU in the cellar still???

NO THEY'RE NOT !!!  (so there...)


	SH		5-1
	SJU		4-1
	Pitt		5-2
	G'town		4-2
	BC		3-3
	UConn		3-3
	SU		2-4
	Miami		2-4
	PC		1-5
	Vill		1-5

Sunday, 12:30pm, CBS:

	talent-poor seton hall takes on RECRUITING GIANT NORTH CAROLINA

    re: UNC @ SetonHall
    
    FWIW this game is being played because of an interesting strategy Dean
    let the faithful in on a few years ago.  The ACC in general (and North
    Carolina in particular) has always recruited well in the
    NewYork/NewJersey area.  From BillyCunningham to DougMoe to LarryBrown
    to BrianReese/DerrickPhelps/PatSullivan (and maybe Rasheed Wallace,
    although he's from Philly) North Carolina has mined the talent-gold
    from the NorthEast corridor as well as anyone in the USA.  
    
    Anyway Dean said a few years ago that he guaranteed he'd play at least
    one game in the NorthEast *every* year.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Redmen at SU tonight.  Boy, would it be great to win up there.
    
    Is it true that BC has gotten transfer F Bevan Thomas from BU?  Also, I
    saw where HS scoring king Ochiel Swaby (great name) has transferred out
    of Miami to Central Florida.
    
    Redmen Phil
      

    
    SJ beats Syracus in Syracus 78-71.
    BC beats Villanova.
    
    Meanwhile UNLV, coached by Villanova's old coach, destroys Georgetown
    96-80.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    I can't believe the ending to that Pitt-Miami game.  For those who
    missed it, Pitt was down by 2 with about 11 seconds left and there was
    a timeout on the floor.  When the timeout was over, the Miami players
    stayed huddled over by their bench and the refs let Pitt inbound the
    ball without the Miami players on the court!  Needless to say, Pitt
    scored on that possession.  
    
    Doesn't the ref give the teams some kind of warning?  I guess the teams
    are responsible for getting out there upon hearing the horn, but I
    don't see how a coach could let that happen.  
    
    Definitely one of the stranger things I've ever seen happen in a game.
    
    
    Joe

    What win for the Redmen at SU Saturday, 78-71.  The redmen are now 5-1
    in the BE (3-0 at home, 2-1 on the road).  What's crazy is that the
    Redmen could be 6-0 --- if they had won with their 2 pt. lead with 6 
    seconds to go in regulation time loss @ UConn early in the season ---.
    
    In Saturday's gmae, the Redmen built a 16 point 2nd half lead before
    holding off the SU charge.  Moten had no points in the first half; I
    think it was a combination of his not looking for his shot and Derek
    Brown denying him the ball.  Teh Redmen got solid performances from
    David Cain, Shawnelle Scott, Lamont Middleton and Derek Brown once
    again.
    
    Tomorrow evening, the Redmen are at BC before coming to the Garden
    Saturday evening for a rematch with UConn.
    
    Remden Phil
      

    > What's going on here??????
    
    What's going on here is that the BigLeast is so mediocre that even a
    very mediocre St.John's team can be in first place.
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    Moten had no points in the first half; I
>    think it was a combination of his not looking for his shot and Derek
>    Brown denying him the ball.

I only heard pieces of the 1st 1/2 (on radio) and the St. John's announcers
said that Moten was frequently being double-teamed.  It's got to be tough for
him.  When SU has Autry and Hopkins in the backcourt, they've got no outside
threats.  People have been packing zones on SU, daring the backcourt to shoot.
Autry has proved to be a penetrator, with little outside game.  Hopkins is
a great defender and spiritual leader, but has very little offensive scoring
ability.  Luke Jackson hasn't done anything since Bum-heim started him
against Providence a week ago.

This can't all be attributed to David Johnson's graduation, or their being
on probation...  I hope Harris comes back next year and provides that
outside scoring.

    
    >What's going on here is that the BigLeast is so mediocre that even a
    >very mediocre St.John's team can be in first place.
    
    You know, I don't like or dislike any of the teams involved in this
    conversation.  However, ACC, you have me curious.  How do you explain
    that the all powerful and mighty North Carolina team from the best
    conference in the land could only manage a 4 point victory over a
    team from a mediocre conference that isn't even in first place?
    
    >Let's keep this in perspective.
    
    Yes please do.  You can start with you NEXT message concerning NC.
    
    Marc
    

YOu know, the thing that I find so humorous is that everybody is so
down on the Big East.   I mean, really, what difference does it make?

I don't watch a lot of basketball, but to sit down and watch UCONN
play Georgetown or St John's, or Seton Hall is always fun cause it's
such a rivalry.

The conference may not be as old and moldy as the ACC, but who gives
a rat's heiny?   The games are fun to watch, and that's what counts....


Just my 2� worth....


'Saw

    The thing is Saw, the games aren't as much fun anymore (the last 2-3
    seasons in particular) because the elague has turned from an exciting,
    emotion-filled standard of excellence to a mediocre, hack-ridden,
    overlong, boring miss-capade - kinda like watching variations of the
    Tigers playing the Angels with Cecil Fielder out of the lineup.
    
    BTW - it was nice of Rollie to play his third string the last three
    minutes so Georgetown could cut a 33 point deficit down to a more
    respectable-looking 16.
    
    NAZZ

    > The games are fun to watch ...
    
    If the only thing that matters is that "the games are fun to watch",
    then the BE is on par with my alma mater, which played exciting games
    in front of_a couple hundered people in NCAA Division 3.  
    
    BTW, lots of people disagree that the games are fun.  My college's
    games were over in less than 2 hours (unlike the foul-a-thon BigLeast)
    and the scores actually got up into the 80's and 90's.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    Boingggggg!
    
    
    This main's sporting a Paul Bunyan sized woodie 'cause of SJU!
    
    I don't give a troll's toe about all this conference bashing crap!  As
    'Sawmain so eloquently stated, this is fun!  
    
    Yahooeeeee   Johnnies!!!!
    
    I remain,
    shakin my head at what they've done!
    Kev
    

What a conference! Our biggest SJU fan didn't go to SJU. Our biggest
UNCfan did not go to UNC. Sounds like MikeL is out of place here :-)

The Crazy Met

Well, don't forget folks, I'm not that big a basketball fan.

If I'm in the mood to watch hoops (which is rare), then just about
any game will do......

'Saw

'Saw

so is age affecting how often you're in the mood???? 

:-)

The Crazy Met

    TcM,
    
    If that little flatulence was aimed at me, Lemme tell ya, I "was going"
    to SJU before you were born (circa 1956, 1957).  I have also attended
    a seminar or two there when I lived on lawn guyland so.......
    
    Besides, to look at it another way, what's the difference between me
    pickin SJU (assuming I never went there - which is wrong) as a team to
    root for and YOU picking the NY Mets.  Have you ever played ball
    in Shea stadium?
    
    
    But, I really, really appreciate being called "the biggest SJU fan"!
    made my day!
    
    I remain,
    holding off a nosebleed - heights doncha know!
    Kev
    

    
    Tonight's B-E tee vee game on ESPN is:
    
    
    		'Nova at Providence.
    
    
    followed by (as was mentioned in another note)
    
    		Nebraska at Colorado
    
    and for the TcM's who don't sleep at midnight you've got:
    
    		U Cal SB at New Mexico State.
    
    
    maybe I'll floss tonight......
    
    I remain,
    kev
    

    Tomorrow Night SJU travels to BC.
    
    Do I have any chance if getting a ticket if I show up there after work?
    
    Any wild guesses what $$$ is required?
    
    I remain,
    wondering if BC will sell out?
    Kev
    

TCM,

No, age is not affecting when I'm in the mood.

For certain things (going out all night, getting falling down puke
all over myself double vision drunk) I'm hardly EVER in the mood any more.

For other things, like Big East Basketball I'm in the mood once in a
while.

And for the thang I'm sure you were aiming at, I find that, contrary to
what I've heard, I'm in the mood now more than I ever was before....


'Saw

   
    Do I have any chance if getting a ticket if I show up there after work?
    
    Any wild guesses what $$$ is required?
    
Well Kev seems that all this depends on how fast you are driving. 70-55 
recently went for about $65.00. 

I remain under the legal limit. 
Jeff

Kev,

Why don't you just call and see if there are any tickets left?

The Crazy Met

    re: .106
    
    Kev, since you were obviously interested in the late game I wanted to
    post the result so you could see it first thing in the morning - or
    whenever you get in.
    
    New Mexcio State beat UCSB 75-64.
    
    Reporting from the late night beat,
    
    The Crazy Met
        ^^^^^
    

    Anybody have any idea what time the Villanova @ PC game ended last
    night?  Talk about your boring affairs, ... here's two (2) teams going
    absolutely nowhere staging a foul-a-thon that went on *endlessly*. 
    With 5 minutes to go I flipped over to watch the last two (2) minutes
    of the Virginia @ W&M debacle, went on to watch the entire OT (yes,
    William & Mary took the pathetic Cavaliers into overtime last night),
    flipped back to ESPN only to find somebody-or-other shooting free
    throws, ... with TWO MINUTES still to go in the game!!!!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

This from the man whose "team" was responsible for the most boring
offensive tactic ever in the game.....


8^)

>    Do I have any chance if getting a ticket if I show up there after work?
>    Any wild guesses what $$$ is required?
>    wondering if BC will sell out?

They're sold out for the SJU game tonight.  Tickets run $12 (all tickets
same price).

    Thanks Joe,
    
    Guess I'll do some AM frequency searching tonight instead.
    
    I remain,
    too lazy to call
    Kev
    

Yeah wasn't there this one UNC-Virginia game bacj before the shot clock
was instituted where UNC held the ball for about 9-10 minutes. I seem to
recall that awesome display of boredom was the incident that finally made
the NCAA institute the 45 second shot clock.

The Crazy Met

    I never claimed North Carolina's 4-corner offense wasn't boring.  I
    *am* pleased with your implicit agreement with me that BigEast
    Basketball is tremendously dull.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

The 4 corners was - and is - well suited for Dean and the Tar Heels. It
was the ticket to all that they stand for. It got them 20-25+ victories a
year and no national championships. 

In fact, of all the things most amazing about No Carolina is that the
master of the 4 corners, Phil Ford, didn't win a ring. 

You might not realize this but it is a rather difficult offense to run
requiring a point guard who can dribble and pass and make about 90% of
his free throws. The rest of the team must also be good passers. All in
all, it's a lot harder to run than most people think. Look at it another
way: if'n it wasn't hard to run the 4 corners, why didn't other use it?
And others did indeed try and mostly fail.

As to what's boring and what's not, if'n you don't like it, don't watch
it. But if you think the ending of the Villanova-PC game was boring, you
need to switch to decaf or otherwise enter some detox program.

TTom

Geez, do I need legalese at the end of every statement that debates
ACC Chris? Add to the end of my note:

No agreement regarding the Big East being dull is explicit, implicit,
or otherwise implied.

I was politely saying people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw
stones.

The Crazy Met

re: .118

TTom, what was the ending of the Providence-Villanova game, I must admit
I was not watching.

The Crazy Met

PC was ahead most of the game and at crunch time were up 8-10 points.
Villanova scratched it back to 2 with about a minute to go. They played
extremely intensely on the defensive end and it looked like PC wouldn't
get a shot off. With about 1 second left on the shot clock they got the
ball inside for a dunk and a foul. PC held on to win, 77-66 but it all
came down to that one play.

FWIW, this is the worst start for 'Nova since the early 70s, something
like the 7th straight conference lost.

TTom

    re: implicit endorsement that BigEast is boring
    
    Sorry, but my logical mind has trouble dealing with things like:
    
    A = B (Boring == 4Corners)
    B = C (4Corners == BigEastBasketball)
    
    then
    
    A <> C (BigEastBasketball <> Boring)
    
    BTW, it wasn't me who compared the 4Corners to the BigEast.  HTH.
    
    But if it *doesn't* help, here's a clever quote from the infamous SI
    "The Big Least" article that (apparently) most haven't bothered to
    read:
    
    "The Big East called the misbegotten six-foul rule, which it adopted
    for three seasons and abandoned this year, an "experiment".  So were
    Dr. Jekyll's tinkerings in the lab.  The rule was sold as a favor to
    fans, as a way to keep marquee players in the game for the public's
    entertainment.  More likely, the league's coaches wanted to curtail the
    referee's power to banish their stars.  The conference still hasn't
    shaken off the notoriety resulting from the endless, foul-plagues games
    that ensued, and the sanguinary style of play seems to have taken
    permanent root.  On Jan.4 Seton Hall forward Jerry Walker, following a
    72-69 victory over Connecticut, bemonaed how he had emerged from the
    Pirates' nonleague schedule relatively unscathed.  "I was coming out of
    preseason games with no bruises", he said.  Then he pointed to a fresh
    cut on his knee, made by a colllision with Huskey Donyell Marshall's
    mouth.  "I Love it", crowed Walker. Few others do.  The next night,
    during Providence's 86-76 defeat at St. John's, officials whistled so
    many fouls -- 48 -- that fed-up Redmen fans actually booed calls
    benefiting the home team.  So sue us, the Big East might say.  As it
    happens, James Madison guard Kent Culuko just may.  Culuko needed three
    stitches to close a split lip caused by a flagrant elbow from Seton
    Hall's Terry Dehere on Dec.30, and he and his father, Cliff, have hired
    a lawyer.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
         

Sorry Chris but I did not make any equation between 

4 corners and BigEast basketball,
hence your postulates are false. Once one of your postulates is
false your whole transitive property falls apart.

The Crazy Met

All things considered, the elbow by Dehere was almost criminal. It was
totally deliberate and without provocation.

Not much of it was made at the time and I've heard nothing since except
how great Dehere is. 

As to Knorr Logic (cf. military intelligence), I missed the part about 
the 4 corners equals Big East. But one thing that should be pointed out
it all of this holier than thou stuff is that if ever there was a "made
for" conference it's the Atlantic Coast Conference. The only reason that
it wasn't structured around TV was that there weren't none back then. But
you can rest assured that the entire raisin detre for the formation of
the conference was to make money marketing college basketball. An example
of this is the fact that the conference has always had a tournament that
deteremined the championship. It was set up for big bucks and it's worked
great.

TTom

    re: (Very) Crazy Met
    
    Your fast backtracking reminds me_a Clinton's spin doctors 
    explaining to us what he *really* meant with all them campaign
    promises.
    
    For the record though, 1Way brought up the BigEast == 4Corners
    comparison, and you endorsed it with your history lesson 'bout the
    Carolina vs. UVa game in the early 80's.
    
    I'd personally like to here somebody address the issue at hand (Why
    does SI call the Big East Conference "The Big Least"?!) instead
    of all this incessant ACC Chris bashing.  [sniff, sniff]
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    For the record though, 1Way brought up the BigEast == 4Corners
>    comparison, and you endorsed it with your history lesson 'bout the
>    Carolina vs. UVa game in the early 80's.
    
Bullshit.

Read what I WROTE.

I said that it was might funny hearing someone talk about boring Big East
hoops, when their favorite school was responsible for the 4-Corners.....


For the record, to me ALL basketball is boring 8^)


'Saw

Can it ACC Chris your beginning to whine almost as much as MrT did.
Anyways I simply do not agree with 'Saws equating of 4 corners and
the BigEast; to repeat, once I do not accept one of your equations 
the rest of your proof falls apart - thats just basic high school 
geometry.

Now I don't have any data to back up the following, just a gut feeling
from watching many games. There are far fewer blowouts in the BigEast
than in most if not all conferences. Last I heard it was close games that
generated excitement, while 30 point blowouts were pretty boring.

The Crazy Met

    re: 1Way
    
    > Read what I WROTE
    > <explictive>
    
    Hmmm now, did you not point out the hypocrisy of me accusing the
    BigEast of being boring, what with me being a fan of the team that used
    to use the boring (but highly effective) 4-corner offense?!  DIDN'T
    YOU?!  
    
    [insert sight of sweat starting to pour off 1Way's brow ...]
    
    DOESN'T THIS IMPLY AN EQUATION BETWEEN BIGLEAST BASKETBALL AND NORTH
    CAROLINA'S 4-CORNERS OFFENSE?!?!  [yes]
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    

>Anyways I simply do not agree with 'Saws equating of 4 corners and
>the BigEast; to repeat, once I do not accept one of your equations 



Here is what I wrote:



                <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                  -< SPORTS >-
================================================================================
Note 23.113                      Big East Sports                      113 of 127
CAMONE::WAY "Cheez-Whiz, Choice of Champions"         5 lines  26-JAN-1993 08:27
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This from the man whose "team" was responsible for the most boring
offensive tactic ever in the game.....


8^)




Now, tell me, point out to me, show me WHERE I ever said that the the
Big East was equated with the 4-Corners.   I did't even mention the
4-Corners.


I merely pointed out that fact that ACC Chris is always complaining about
Big East hoops being boring and that I thought it was funny that he
did so, considering his favorite team has, over the years, played some
of the most boring basketball on record......

That's what I stated......


Sheesh!


'Saw

>    re: 1Way
>    
>    > Read what I WROTE
>    > <explictive>

EXPLETIVE.....8^)
    
>    Hmmm now, did you not point out the hypocrisy of me accusing the
>    BigEast of being boring, what with me being a fan of the team that used
>    to use the boring (but highly effective) 4-corner offense?!  DIDN'T
>    YOU?!  

No, I just said that I thought it was funny, you always complaining about
boring big east hoops, when in fact your favorite team played some boring
hoops in their time.

    
>    [insert sight of sweat starting to pour off 1Way's brow ...]

Nope, I used my Sprinkle A Day....
    
>    DOESN'T THIS IMPLY AN EQUATION BETWEEN BIGLEAST BASKETBALL AND NORTH
>    CAROLINA'S 4-CORNERS OFFENSE?!?!  [yes]
    
    
NOT......


8^)    
    

    TCM, don't worry about it.  ACC Chris has long been known for his
    attempts at twisting semi-related statements into ringing endorsements
    of his position.  Everyone pretty much ignores him now.
    
    'Saw, don't forget that basketball was developed to give rugby players
    something to do while waiting for the snow to melt.

'Saw

My mistake for not going back and checking your initial reply. I should
know by now not to accept ACC Chris' interpretation without first checking
the original source myself.

The Crazy Met

>    
>    'Saw, don't forget that basketball was developed to give rugby players
>    something to do while waiting for the snow to melt.

I guess that's why I like to play it (although poorly) more than watch it.


TCM:

No sweat dude.  I just figured I'd better spell it out so that folks
wouldn't take the Crockmeister's word for it.....8^)


'Saw

    
    
         Btw SI. Now this is a great magazine. Chris have you ever heard of
    the SI cover Jinx? They show some good (team, kid,)prospect and as soon
    as it comes out that kid/team goes down the tubes. Don't put all your
    apples in one basket just because some sportswriter doesn't like the BE
    and has the power to print it in a National Magazine.
    
             I have never considered a close game between 2 evenly matched
    teams boring. What was boring was watching the 4 corners being used in
    the late 70's early eighties by Dean's(I suck as a coach) Tar Heels.
    
    Chappy

>>  No sweat dude.  I just figured I'd better spell it out so that folks
>>  wouldn't take the Crockmeister's word for it.....8^)


 Crock, serious???  hahahahahaaa thanks for the laugh Saw...

    Bc beat St Johns and Miami up-sat Conn.....
    
    REK

    
    Despite my dislike for John Thompson, and sorta liking Rollie
    Massamino, I have to say that the ease at which UNLV (University of
    Lopsided Victories) disposed of Georgetown with someting like a 27
    point lead halfway in the 1st half, I found the game boring and sort of
    embarrassing.  Thankfully I had other things which needed to be done
    and I didn't watch almost 3/4 of it but I commend Rollie for putting
    the subs in to keep the margin lower and MikeC from doing a hari-kari!
    
    I remain,
    appreciative of BBall contests!
    Kev
    

    
    And now, the rest of the story....
    
    Miami - 80
    UConn - 65
    
    Since I don't get NESN, I couldn't watch the SJU-BC game so's I started
    surfing the AM wave.  Did you know that in the range of 990 - 1100AM
    frequency, you can pick up Duke BBall, UConn BBall, BC Bball, and SJU
    BBall?  It was wild!
    
    
    Anyway, for the first time since the '88-'89 season, BC beat SJU.  This
    loss was also SJU's first ever in Conte arena.  SJU started the game
    2-0 BC tied  then SJU got hot leading by 6 (14-8) with 12:34.  14-12 @
    11:22 and BC called a TO.  They came back with a zone and it took SJU a
    while to adapt to it since they're really not a very good outside
    shooting team.  SJU 20-14, 20-19 @ 2:58, 23-19, 25-19 @ 1:43, 27-23
    @:11.  2 ticks left in the half, Middleton gets fouled, makes the shot
    and the half ended 28-23 SJU.  SJU had great rebounding and Cain was
    distributing th eball and penetrating well.
    
    2nd half was a reversal.  Credit the Eagles for adapting.  36-34 (BC!)@
    14:58, 36-36@14:22, 42-42@10:50.  BC goes into another zone defense,
    44-42 SJU, 45-44 (BC), 48-46, 51-46, 53-48, here comes a 9-0 BC run, 
    57-48; Blackwell gets a "T", SJU gets 4 shots and the ball.  Score
    57-53 BC @ 5:32.  SJU inbounds and throws the ball away. BC
    posession59-53, 62-55,64-58@1:49, 66-60 @1:06, 70-61@ :36.
    
    Final score BC - 71
    		SJU - 61
    
    BC's BE record - 5-2
    SJU's BE record - 5-3 & they're knocked out of 1st place.
    
    side note - Abrham's returned to the team last night after BC lifted
    his suspension.
    
    I remain,
    unhappy thisted AM 'cause they lost
    Kev
    

>        -< NC Skate is so bad this year, TTom turns BigEast fain! :^( >-

NC State is horrible and terrible, that's fer sure.

Sure I'm a Big East fan. Also a Big 10 fan. Hail, I'm just a college
hoops fan type a guy.

But lest it be unsaid, I think the Atlantic Coast Conference is the
bestest of all. I just don't feel compelled to put down them other
people, like some of us obviously do.

TTom

    Jeff Sagarin's men's conference ratings, taken from today's USA Today:
    
    1. Atlantic Coast	85.13
    2. Big Eight	84.69
    3. Big Ten		84.51
    4. Great Midwest	83.88
    5. Atlantic 10	82.00
    6. Big Least	81.91
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Beating your chest over a 0.09 difference in rankings?

    > Why is it ...
    
    Why is that the NorthEastCorridor noters in here can't belly up to the
    bar, recognize the BigEast ain't what it used to be, and help me
    propose constructive criticism to help turn things around?!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Possibly because the criticism you offer is never constructive ??

The Crazy Met

And probably because, to quote one of my favorite characters of
all time, 

	It don't amount to a hill of beans.....


8^)

    
    > Why is that the NorthEastCorridor noters in here can't belly up to the
    > bar, recognize the BigEast ain't what it used to be, and help me
    > propose constructive criticism to help turn things around?!
    
    'Cuz as we've said time and time again we don't care?
    
    glenn
    

re: .147

The answer to that question is obvious.

The Crazy Met

    re: BigEastBigots not facing up to problems
    
    Here's my theory:
    
    After *years* of chest-puffing they cain't deal with the fact that
    their beloved conference was nothing but_a cheap facade created by
    Dave Gavitt in back-room deals with TV exec's.  The BigEast was/is
    style over substance, and that combination invariably leads to_a ugly
    exposure, kinda like looking behind the fake walls put up on a
    Hollywood movie set.  
    
    Thank gawd in the ACC we have legitimate rivalries created by years of
    hate, as opposed to BigLeast "rivalries" typified by
    JohnThompson/LouCarnesseca sweater exchanges.
    
    Many :^)'s ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Hey Crisp,

Do you ever get the feeling you are only talking to yourself? I know we get the
feeling that you are noting only to read your own replies.

WGAF?

  Metz

    
    No Chris, some of us ignorant pointy-headed "NorthEastCorridor" types 
    aren't even fans of the Big East, truth be known.  I've long made it
    clear that I'm happy that Penn State moved to the Big Ten instead of
    the Big East.  Now when you "SouthAtlanticFauxBubba"-types going to
    fess up that the ACC is a second-rate football conference a-skeered to
    take on the superior SEC teams in your own back yard instead of all
    of those 1-AA patsies?
    
    glenn
     

    re: Waugamain
    
    Okay, I confess:  ACC Football < SEC Football.  Oh, and lest I ferget:
    
    SHAME ON U ACC FOR LOADING UP ON DIVISION 1-AA FOOTBALL PATSIES!!!
    
    Now, cain we possibly hear similar soul-cleansing confessions from some
    of the BigEastBigots who've been puffing their chests for so many
    years?!!!!  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    Now, cain we possibly hear similar soul-cleansing confessions from some
>    of the BigEastBigots who've been puffing their chests for so many
>    years?!!!!  
    

I don't have a puffy chest.  I have a nice manly chest that is constantly
being sculpted by working in the weight room.....

hth,
'Saw

    
    Sorry, I stopped puffing on December 13.  Cain't help ya.
    
    However, I HAVE picked up 10 pounds!
    
    I remain,
    tight at the waist!
    Kev
    

	Pitt		6-3
	SH		5-2
	SJU		5-2
	G'town		5-2
	BC		5-3
	UConn		4-4
	SU		3-5
	Miami		3-5
	PC		2-6
	Vill		1-7

    Disappointing loss for SJU Tuesday night at BC.  I thought Mahoney let
    O'Brien dictate SJU's lineup (3 guards), which put SJU in a woeful
    state.  Mahoney has to stick to his guys and try to win with them, not
    trying to match BC's subs.
    
    Another big one for the Redmen Saturday evening at the Garden vs.
    UConn.  Redmen are 3-0 at home and 2-2 on the road and have 4 of their
    next 6 at home, before ending with 3 of 5 on the road to finish the BE
    regular season.
    
    By the way, anyone have any Spring recruiting info out there?  Still
    seems like some teams have holes to fill.  I see SJU needing another
    big body, another PG and a backup C.
    
    Redmen Phil
                        

Recruiting info ?  I don't have anything on prospective signees, but
here's how prep players who have already committed to BE schools are
doing in their HS seasons:

	BC	Danya Abrams,  6'8", 286 lbs, PF, Tarrytown, NY...
		25ppg, 12 rpg having a good year despite double- and
		triple-teams

		Keenan Jourdan, 6'7", G/F, 13 ppg, 9 rpg, 6 apg, Brewster
		Aca. (NH)...has struggled learning the pt g spot, but
		appears better on the wing...he wants to play the point,
		but his coach says he doesn't have pt g mentality

	UConn	Kirk King, 6'7", F, 27 ppg, 15 rpg, Baton Rouge, LA...
		terrific athlete

		Ray Allen, 6'5", 2G, 27 ppg, 14 rpg, 5 apg, Dalzell, SC...
		one of the top wing players in nation

		Ruslan Inyatkin, 6'6", G/F, W Hartford, CT, 18 ppg, 11 rpg...
		been injured most of season

	G'town	no committed players

	Miami	Alex Fraser, 6'8", PF, Miami, 29 ppg, 12 rpg, 6 bpg...
		tenacious inside...powerful...gets fouled a lot and is making
		his foul shots

		Jamal Johnson, 6'8", PF, Pensacola JUCO, FL, 15 ppg, 7 rpg...
		JUCO All-America candidate...but hasn't been consistent

	Pitt	Willie Cauley, 6'7" WF, Dodge City JUCO, KS, 18 ppg, 8 rpg,
		5 apg...gifted JUCO All-America candidate...versatile, playing
		4 different positions

		Jaime Peterson, 6'9", F/C, Champlain College, VT, 12 ppg, 9 rpg
		...rebounding well, but not consistent, not always focused

	PC	Eric Williams, 6'8" PF, Vincennes JUCO, IN, 21 ppg, 10 rpg...
		JUCO All-America candidate...tough player who plays hard

		Austin Croshere, 6'10", F, Santa Monica, CA, 22 ppg, 15 rpg...
		agile and powerful

		Jason Murdock, 6'3", G, Raritan, NJ, 18 ppg, 8 apg, 6 spg...
		great athletic ability, all the makings of a great player
		(he is related to Eric...brother ?  cousin ?)

		Piotr Szybilski, 6'10", C, Brewster Aca, NH, 17 ppg, 13 rpg,
		5 bpg...still learning, and somewhat passive at times, but
		could emerge as a standout prospect

	SJU	James Scott, 6'6", F/G, Spartansburg, SC, 21 ppg, 10 rpg,
		9 apg...could be national JUCO player of the year...all-around
		talent

		Roshown McLeod, 6'8", F, Jersey City, NJ, 16 ppg, 9 rpg...
		3 different all-tournament teams...a leader on the court

	SH	Donnell Williams, 6'8", F, Bayonne, NJ, 21 ppg, 8 rpg...
		inside and outside talent...beat out top HS players
		Randy Livingston and Damon Flint for MVP of United Carolina
		Bank Tournament

	SU	Charles Gelatt, 6'8", PF, Binghamton, NY, 23 ppg, 10 rpg,
		4 bpg...huge inside player, who plays physical, but can
		also shoot the "3"

		Todd Burgan, 6'6", G/F, Detroit Pershing, MI, 12 ppg, 6 rpg,
		3 apg...versatile, played wing last year, but playing point
		this year...averaged 24 ppg in 2 games last week

	Vill	Alvin Williams, 6'5", PG, Fort Washington, PA, 25 ppg, 9 rpg,
		7 apg...one of the nations best playmakers...has 6 triple-
		doubles...handles and passes as well as any guard in the
		country

		Zeffy Penn, 6'5", WF, Pittsfield, ME, 17 ppg, 7 rpg...athletic,
		agressive...working on perimeter game

    St. John beats Connecticut.
    
    Folks, we could be in a for a special treat in the next day or so.
    Not only do we get to listen to ACC Chris discuss UNC's woeful showing
    against Wake Forest, we may also be privileged to hear from Mike Childs
    on Georgetown's 10 point loss to BC. I am greatly anticipating those
    notes.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    SJU did it again, besting the Huskies Saturday evening at the Garden. 
    Redmen now are 6-2 (4-0 home; 2-2 away) in the BE, all by themselves 
    in first place (thanks to the Hall'a loss to SU yesterday).
    
    Gtown is in the Garden tonight with their Frosh and helter skelter
    play.
    
    Derek Brown, who had 19 in the 1st half (finished with 24) vs. the 
    Huskies, kept the Redmen in the game when Uconn extended to a 25-17 lead.
    Mahoney called a timeout, and SJU went on 31-11 and 45-18 tears.  Scott
    had a nice 2nd half, as did Middleton, and Fr. Fred Lyson hit a couple of
    big hoops in the 2nd half.  Again, PG David Cain was outstanding, with
    only 2 turnovers and 14 assists, 2 short of Mark Jackson's school record.
    
    Scott Burrell was out for UConn, and Calhoun's comments makes one think
    that they may be without him for a while, due to various injuries.
    
    By the way, its easy to understand why Toraino Walker quit this team. 
    At every opportunity, Calhoun is in his player's faces for the most
    minor mistakes.  At one point, I thought he was going to fight with
    Travis Knight and Eric Heyward for some soft board play.
    
    After tonight's game, its on the road for the Redmen to Pitt and PC, so
    we need this one.
    
    Redmen Phil
                                                                   

 I think the problem for Georgetown is simple, no more saturday games...being
 the students that they are they usually study on saturday so the games are
 messin' up their bio rhythms. Of course if JT had played the 3-guards of BC
 straight up more often it might helped. BC's experience whooped the kids
 again. Joey Brown  has been off a bit too lately with his passing, call it
 a mild case of Hurleitis. They're young, they're fun and if they peak at
 the right time they can still go far.

 Way back to Chris,  I figured the problem out for you this week, gosh darn
 if it didn't take me until 3:30 am saturday. It's the refs. The Big East
 ref are just too good still too pure. The ACC and Big Ten refs use a motified
 pro set of rules imo. Preferential star treatment, traveling, palming, you
 name it. And the established coaches pipeline to the refs' ears are incredible..
 Kids these days don't have the discipline to play in conference like the Big
 East, they all wanna go where they can be like Mike....

 mike

    re: .-1
    
    Even though the sarcasm was heavy, I applaud MChilds for at least
    attempting to address the multiple problems confronting "The Big
    Least".  (SI, Circa Jan. 1993)
    
    Gotta be rough when the two (2) games showcased on the tube last
    weekend resulted in a humiliating blowout on the road (UNLV > Georgetown) 
    and a loss on the home floor of the best team the conference has to offer
    (UNC > SHU).  Times are, indeed, tough.
    
    BTW, North Carolina was originally scheduled to play Villanova last
    weekend as part of the fullfillment of a home & home series with the
    'Cats.  However the BigTVeast has a rule that states that a team must
    be in the top 6 preseason in order to participate in a non-conference
    national telecast.  Dean was not pleased about this and emphaticially
    did NOT want to play Seton Hall.  (Had to play 'em last year on their
    home floor, plus he was basically being dictated to on who he
    could/couldn't play.)  Alas, Dean knew he was fighting an uphill
    battle.  Here's hoping he steps up the "sideshow" for the services of
    Rasheed Wallace, who's a talent the league can ill-afford to lose.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    Folks,
    It's time to wave bye bye to Georgetown in the top 25.
    
    Say hello to SJU in the Top 25!
    
    SJU stomps Georgetown 79-61 to maintain sole possession of 1st place!
    Rookie coach Brian Mahoney may not have man-for-man superstars but does
    he have them playing well coached team basketball!
    
    Yahoo!
    
    btw, tonight's "Thug of the Game" belongs to Hoya's Morgan.
    
    more tomorrow
    
    I remain,
    remembering SJU was supposed to finish on the bottom or next, as picked
    by the "experts"!  HA!
    Kev
    

    Good to see SJU at 7-2. I hope it continues this way. But Kev keep in
    mind this is the Big East where they all beat up on each other,
    especially this year. SJU could still end up 7-7 (I think its 14 game
    season). Unlikely, but in the Big East ...
    
    Always fun to beat Georgetown.
    
    Mets in '93
    The Crazy Met
    

    Feels like I just left this place.  Stayed to watch the SJU-Gtown game
    last night at the Garden, and just trained it back into the City.  
    
    Another decent performance from the Redmen last night.  In all reality,
    the first 25 minutes were sloppy as all hell.  Then the Redmen went on
    a 16-0 tear, punctuated by 3's from reserve So. SF Sergio Lyuk, who had
    11 points for the evening.
    
    Fr. F Charles Minelend had a super game with 13 points, and tremendous
    hustle on the boards during the run.  Jr. C Shawnelle Scott did a good
    job on Harrington, and contributed 19 points, and So. 2G Derek Brown
    and Sr. PG David Cain had fine games.  By the way, Cain went the whole
    way.  Sr. BF Lamont Middleton was a horse once again, and Fr. SF Fred
    Lyson made some nice contributions.  
    
    At 7-2 (5-0 home; 2-2 away) in the BE, the Redmen now travel to Pitt
    Saturday evening and then PC away next Tuesday evening.  I'll gladly
    take a split of these two games. 
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    
    Phil,
    
    It's major woodie time for me!  First, yesterday afternoon my PC grad
    brother called me and told me he was able to scarf 2 tickets to the
    SJU-PC game next Tuesday!!!!!  Of course, all the grovelling I did
    after the PC-SHU game probably embarrassed him no end so.....
    
    And of course, an already excellent day was closed out with the GU win.
    Even though the Hoya's have Othello, there's no way he can overpower 3
    SJU guys in the paint and it seemed that they were always withing 4-5
    feet of "O".
    
    SJU opened up with a 9-0 spurt to start things off, 9-2, 11-5, 11-9,
    13-9 (at this point GU has 7 turnovers - that's what killed them),
    15-15, 19-15 (SJU) @ 11:01, 19-15.  GU has 10 turnovers, SJU - 4 BUT,
    GU is shooting 50% to SJU's 41%.  I didn't keep track of the 'bounds
    but I think SJU had them by a pretty large margin.
    30-24 @ Halftime.  GU is shooting 50%, SJU 34%!!
    
    17:41 score is tied @32.  GU goes out in front 40-38 @12:57.  @11:45
    it's tied at 42 all (5th tie of the contest). Luyk hit a 3 pointer,
    45-42 SJU.  Harrington gets hit with his 4th foul, 50-42, 52-42 (SJU)
    then GU's morgan and Mineland go after a loose ball and Morgan gives a
    classic Hockey shoulder check into Mineland and tosses him 3 rows into
    the stands.  Ref's call "T", 2 shots w/possession.  Hit one, 53-42,
    Othello comes back in and SJU goes on a tear scoring 16-0! 58-42 SJU!
    
    Bigtime bummer, the phone rang and by the time I returned to the game,
    there was ~6 seconds left, SJU ahead 79-59!  
    
    Final SJU- 79
    	  GU - 61
    
    Made my day!
    
    I remain,
    gigglingly happy over this team!
    Kev
    

    Kev, FWIW, SJU outrebounded Gtown 14-3 on the offensive boards in the
    first half (21-10 in total).  That's the good news; the bad news is
    that SJU had 15 more shots than Gtown at halftime and only led by 6
    points.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    
    Yabbut, 
    
    can you imagine what the score COULD HAVE BEEN if we shot better than
    41% in the 1st?
    
    Not really bad news, shooting % can be improved.
    
    Mahoney did a great job - this team's a team!
    
    
    I remain,
    amazed Phil's wwritten 2x in ONE day!   ;^)
    Kev
    

    Wassamatter Tommy, miss JD?
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    not taking the bait for the Master Baiter Wannabee!
    Kev
    

    
    Yabbut he *DID* achieve 700+ wins.  IMO, that's a teeny bit :^)
    better than mediocre!
    
    Kev
    

    But Kev, how many champeenships did he win?

    Central Mass OUTSTANDING running back and OUTSTANDING basketball player
    Zack McCall has decided to leave NE  and will sign a letter of intent
    to play...
    
    Football at
    
    Syracuse.... he does not plan on playing basketball at Syracuse...
    
    REK

                <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                  -< SPORTS >-
================================================================================
Note 23.172                      Big East Sports                      172 of 174
PATE::MACNEAL "ruck `n' roll"                          1 line   2-FEB-1993 11:43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    But Kev, how many champeenships did he win?
    
    
    
    
    Actually quite a few Mac. Several NIT's, a B-E or two, Lapchick
    tourneys.....  I could go on and on but you get the point, I'm sure.
    
    hth!
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    answering the question "as written"!!!!!!!
    Kev
    

Kev, ignore Mac he's in an anal retentive mood today.

Anyways SJU under Looouiee never had the distinction of having "the greatest
recruiting class." He made do with a lot less than Smiffy did, and Smiffy
only won 1 championship with a lot more talent over the years.

The Crazy Met

Sheesh, I must be slippin' it took almost 3 hours to get personal mail
on this thread  :-). Mission accomplished.

It has been a bit*h of a week.

The Crazy Met

I suppose this could be entered by JoSH or JoJ_Not but since I'm here first
tough!

;^)

I'm not a technoid but if I try to be JoSH for a moment, how'd I do?

JoSH - The PC Friars travelled down to Noo Choisee to play the Pirates 
Of Seton Hall, losers of their last 3 games.  Would the home cooking help 
PJ and SH?  Only the mindless would worry.

Anyway, since I hang around weenie airheads, here's how the game went (as 
described in CISC mode).  But first, anybody who wants ta know what CISC
is, send Brydie and TCLW mail.

SH scores first, 2-0, and begins to look almost OK.  6-5, 9-5, 13-8 !
However, Karnishinovas collects his THIRD foul early in the game.  14:44 
for those who really care.  Maybe this will help PC make a run for it?
Lets see... 15-8, 16-8, 18-8, 20-8.  nope PC better adjust - 23-12(!),
32-23 (!) @3:02		Halftime - 38-29.  Comments; PC's Abdul Abdula
won't play because of some wimpy excuse about a 101 degree temperature;
Franklin Western sprains an ankle.

2nd half - PC comes out ready and closes to 4 in 1:25! Sh gets a second wind 
and does a bit of scoring - 41-34, 44-34, 51-43 @ 14:58 *BUT* Luther collects 
his FOURTH foul!!!!  Looks like SH better play it conservative and PC has
to go for the jugular! More SH fouls and @ 10:04, Friars are in the 1-1 bonus 
situation. (Good for PC, they're 11-14 so far while SH is 4/7).  Did I mention
that @9:23 SH is up by 14? No?  Tough!  (66-52).  68-52, 68-54, 68-57, 70-59,
73-59, 77-60@3:02, 79-62, 81-65, 83-68, 88-71@:06 and finally, mercifully,
the game ends with Seton Hall defeating Providence College 90-71.


And, 

for those without much time, here's the game description in RISC mode:

SHscoredfirstneverlostleadwon90-71.


(technical disclaimer - We're looking at a RISC-RISC process and it looks
like someday we'll be able to say SHbeatPC90-71 but today the technology
to do this is too immature)
signed; Dr. Rotor, Chief PropellerHaid


;^)


I remain,
hopping PC cain't recover from this until nexted Wednesday!
Kev

    
    See 24.38
    
    The Crazy Met
    

Syracuse beat UConn (minus Burrell), at UConn, 70-67.  They scored the
last 9 pts of the game, and UConn only got off 2 FG attempts in the last
2:43 of the game.  Syracuse had led most of the way (until midway thru
the 2nd 1/2), but UConn pulled off a 14-0 spurt, and had a 67-61 lead
when SU had their game-ending 9-0 run.  Moten scored 7 of the final
9 pts (including a 3-ptr to take the lead at 68-67).  Hopkins had 16 pts
in the 1st 1/2, none in the 2nd.  SU's bench had no points.

Syracuse has won 4 of their last 5, and is now 5-5 in the BE.

    
    Has anybody got:
    
    a)	The present B-E standings w/ conference records 
    and 
    b)  a Chart of who beat whom and who lost to whom?
    
    I don't have it and I'm curious!
    
    I remain,
    Kev
    
    

    Miami Fr. C (NYC) William Davis will be redshirted this year due to a 
    knee injury.
    
    Heard that Matt Alosa has quit the PC team.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    
    Phil,
    
    If Matt Alosa really quit, that's gonna hurt them because he was
    supposed to be a pretty good 3pt shooter.  The way SJU clogged up the
    paint, if PC doesn't have an outside threat, they're toast on Tuesday!
    
    If'n the game is on tee vee in NY, look for me ~20 rows up from
    center court and I think we're facing PC's bench.  Aisle seats too!
    
    I remain,
    more excited about Tuesday than Saturday!
    Kev
    

    Given the way the BE results are coming in, I would be delighted if the
    Redmen split these next two games on the raod vs. Pitt and PC.  Last
    night's Pitt loss to 'Nova was good for the Redmen in that Pitt lost. 
    However, it was off campus and the crowd was dead.  Saturday evening,
    the game is on campus and Pitt will be smarting from last night.
    
    Re: Alosa; next Tuesday's game at PC is still a real tough one; PC
    needs a win, and SJU caught a break at home vs. PC when Smith did
    nothing and was saddled with fouls.  I do not expect that to happen for
    SJU on the road.
    
    Redmen Phil 
             

    Phil,
    
    Yabbut ya gotta remember that PC's at best, a 41% shooting team, they
    have 2 players currently nursing sprained ankles, Abdul's weakened from
    the flu.
    
    Cain should take apart their frontcourt and I believe SJU's inside
    game, both offensively and defensively, is no match for PC.
    
    Of course, I might have my rose colored glasses on too!
    
    I remain,
    wondering if I should make a prediction?
    Kev
    

    Attended the UCONN vs. Syracuse game Tuesday night down in Hartford.
    As Joe said UCONN came back from a 9 point deficit to go up by
    5 or 6 with 2 minutes or so remaining.  Syracuse goes up by 1
    with 8 seconds remaining, time out UCONN.  Calhoun is going to
    set up the game winning play.  Time out is over 1 Huskie takes the ball 
    out at the midstripe.  The other four Huskies are basically in their
    free throw position as if they were at the line. 2 Huskies break to
    the exact same spot 5 feet in front of the guy taking it out..lob pass,
    collision, TWEEEEEEET, traveling on the guy who caught the ball.
    UCONN fould immediately no the inbounds, Syracuse makes the two 
    free throws, UCONN puts up a 40 foot brick to end the game.
    
    This was UCONN's game to lose and they DID!  On the up side they
    played well without Burrell, which I was not expecting.  Brian
    Fair had quite a few 3's with Donyell Marshall filling it up also.
    Ollie actually made some exciting drives to the hoop.  If he could
    ever find a jump shot he'd be dangerous as no one even covers him
    if he's over 15 feet from the hoop.  With Burrell out Travis Knight 
    got some quality minutes which can only help in the future.  Eric
    Hayward is a nice hustling wide body with some decent inside moves.
    He's much better than advertised.  Cormier didn't play much, I think
    due to Ollie's all around good game.  
    
    Jimbo

    
    a quick call down to the Providence Sales Office confirms, according to
    one of my "insiders" that Matt Alosa has really quit the PC team.
    
    Mad that Barnes only plays people for about 20 seconds and pulls them,
    mad he didn't get the chance to "show his stuff"  and I guess really
    really mad that there's only one basketball!
    
    I/ve said all along, PC has great individual playground athletes
    but no team.
    
    I remain,
    da investigative reporter!
    Kev
    

    re: PC
    
    Does everyone in BigLeastLand realize that PC's coach (Barnes) wanted
    the Virginia job when Terry Holland left, but that then-commish Dave
    Gavitt talked him out of it?  
    
    Wonder how he feels having turned down a clearly more attractive job
    cause of a guy who ended up abandoning ship himself?!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    In Saturday night games - probably missed some:
    
    PC beat Georgetown in OT
    Pittsburgh beat SJU 71-69 at Pittsburgh
    BC beat Seton Hall
    UConn lost to Fla St (out of conference game)
    I know Miami played, not sure of the result.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

      Didn't they beat the Irish?

    Another dismal weekend of dismal hoops for the NorthEastCorridor.  On
    the Heels of the UNC @ SHU loss and the UNLV > Gougetown humiliation,
    this weekend brought:
    
    o The Charlie Ward-less Florida State Seminoles easily defeating 
      the BigLeast's Connecticut, @ Connecticut.
    
    o WakeForest absolutely pasting Temple, @ Temple.  The Deacs managed
      to ring up 106 points, most ever on the Owls home floor.
    
    Wonder what Rasheed Wallace was thinkin' bout these results?!  (HINT:
    he was probably home studying extra-hard for his SAT's, cause if he 
    passes my strong hunch is he's headed south to Chapel Hill.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Miami beat Syracuse.
    
    The Redmen lost a big chance to steal one on the road at Pitt, but
    couldn't convert in the last 6 seconds.
    
    Its on to PC tomorrow evening, with the Friars coming off a big road
    win at G'town.
    
    Redmen Phil
          

OK all,

I'll be tooling into Chi-town and Champaign nexted weekend to watch the
2nd place B10 Fightin' Illini paste Pitt all over the floor on National TV
and hopefully get some recognition for the good work they are doing this
season. To celebrate the live hoops action, thought I'd see if any of the
Pittsburgh/big least supporters might want to put a p-name on the game, as
another big least ranked team bites the dust...

Murph

    re: .-1
    
    Kudo's for the efforts Murph, but don't go holding your breath waitin'
    for any BigLeast fans to put anything substative on the table where
    interleague games are concerned.  (Unless a_course you want to compare
    Pitt's academic performance with Illinois, in which case I'd have to
    set The Line as a 'Pick Em'.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re: .-1
    
>    Kudo's for the efforts Murph, but don't go holding your breath waitin'
>    for any BigLeast fans to put anything substative on the table where
>    interleague games are concerned.  (Unless a_course you want to compare
>    Pitt's academic performance with Illinois, in which case I'd have to
>    set The Line as a 'Pick Em'.)

    Are we talking about the school, or the team? (better be the team or the
    flames will get hot VERY fast)  At least Illinois does suspend
    the players who are deficient - Larry Smith, TJ Wheeleer, and Latka Gravas
    all sat out a season getting their academic houses in order, and graduated
    or are on track to do so. Lou has been very selective in his picks of
    athletes with no academic future - if you are going to get a dummy,
    make sure he doesn't NEED the degree.  Gill, Anderson, Battle, and Liberty
    are mental midgets - but they have locked up some pro dollars, and since
    Illinois has been sending more players to the pros than almost all NCAA
    schools, they have a built in support system to try and make sure none
    of them pull a Jack Clark.
    
    Murph
    

    > thought I'd see if any of the Pittsburgh/big least supporters might
    > want to put a p-name on the game, as another big least ranked team
    > bites the dust
    
    Could hear a *pin* drop in here!
    
    Haw haw!!11
    
    
    - ACC Chris

These in season games are not the kind of games that inspire p-name
challenges. Bowl games, playoffs, NCAA tournament games are the right
place for p-name challenges.

The Crazy Met

Chris,

Since I spent the first 18 years of my life in the 'burgh I am proud to say I
am a Pitt fan.  Now that is not to be confused with being a raving lunitic 
over a team/conference.  That being said, I happen to think that your predictions
on the outcome of this game are out in left field, but so are most of your notes.

As far as the p-name bet goes, I hate to disappoint you, but I only make those
type of wagers if I have some direct influence over the outcome of the event 
(just ask Kev and Metz).

Bill

In simple words, Bill is saying that he's a wimp. :-)

The Crazy Met

Hey TCM,

Stick it in your Met!

Murph, you're on send me mail.....

How about my Hoyas? I open my mouth about them and they go in the tank. Must
come from knowing --> Dinzdale....

mike

Mike, 'ya beat me to the punch. It is always nice to see Georgetown
lose.

The Crazy Met

    
    Yo!  Anybody got the Glob?  Care to share who's favored tonight
    in the PC-SJU game?
    
    I remain,
    ready to p*ss off the Friar fans!
    Kev
    

    Being a Big East fan and all, I decided to take Murph up on his bet. 
    In fact, in anticipation of the Pitt loss, I've already adjusted my
    p-name.  If_n my Panthers spring the upset I fully expect him to alter
    his p-name accordingly.  (i.e. Big East == Atlantic 10)  
    
    Meanwhile what about that Gougetown @ SU game last night?!  Woweee,
    excitement city, baby!  [NOT]  Lowlights included:
    
    o John Thompson getting hit with a technical after *his* guy made a 
      shot (3-pointer, even)
    
    o John Thompson blowing a very sportsmanlike kiss to the referee(s) while
      walking off at halftime
    
    o The usual BigLeast foul-a-thon.  At the start of the 2nd half I
      started running a little tally.  8 of the first 10 trips down court
      resulted in a referee's whistle.  I flipped to the Austin Peay game on
      SportsSouth after this.
    
    o Dickie Vitale moaning 'bout how the BigEast's problems are the result
      of unrealistic expectations after the '85 season.  (The was *7*
      years ago, Dick!)
    
    o Dickie 'splain how the BigEast clearly is not one of the top 3 
      conferences in the USA (Da ...) but is in the "top 5".  Vitale's
      personal power rankings somehow put 'em past the A10 and into the
      5th spot.  Vitale sez both Thompson & Baywhine admitted the "problem"
      is the lack of Point Guard's in the league.  I concur, but would
      add to the list centers, power forwards, wing forwards, and big
      guards.  Haw haw!!
    
    o Othello Harrington, who JD sez has more offensive ability as a frosh
      than Montross does now (despite the fack that most commentary I've
      read rank Eric as perhaps the premier post player in the USA) did
      ZIP offensive, but ...
    
    o Can't forget about the Hoya's completely inept offense, a John
      Thompson staple.  Even if Harrington has some offensive ability
      there's no way he was gonna see the ball the way Syracuse's very
      mediocre 2-3 zone was packed in.
    
    o The crowd was so dead Dickie was desperately trying to fire 'em up.
      Fack is, Syracuse ain't what it used to be (the probation has hurt
      'em, no question) and Georgetown is just plain mediocre.
    
    o Dickie pointed out (correctly) how the Hoyas are certainly no cinche
      for the tournament, what with their void of quality W's.  (Cain we
      still consider BigEast wins "quality"?  Dunno ...)
    
    One question for MChilds though:  Exactly what is it about Georgetown
    that would make someone a fan?!  They've *got* to be one of the most
    boring teams in the country to watch.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    -1 Who cares!! 8^)
    
    Make sure you behave as usual Kev, and make a spectacle of yo'self
    and git on TV. Wear one of Loooie's deesgustin' sweaters.
    
    MikeL
    

Crisp -

Why do you consider the A10 better then the Big East - other then
blind hatred?

If Montross is the premier center in the nation, then this
country is in trouble.   Herman Munster has more moves then
Eric.

And you count fouls and whistles?   ALmost every college game
I watch has a foul a thon going on.

If you hate the conference, whey do you watch the games?

I'll predict that Harrington will be a much better pro player
then Montross will ever be.  How's that Crisper.

JD

    > If you hate the conference, whey do you watch the games?
    
    What jo talkin' 'bout?!  I'm *ON RECORD* as saying I'm a fan of the
    BigEast.  (Witness the fack that I'm the only one to take Murph up on
    his wager, on the record anyway.)  Just cause I'm main enough to
    recognize there's a problem doesn't mean I'm not a "Big Fan".
    
    What I'm clearly *not* a fan of (and this goes back a very long ways)
    is BigEastChestPuffing.  As Leary suggested over in the ACC note, I've
    always said "NO!" to conference love-fests (your loathing of BC not
    withstanding) which is my perception of what BigLeast fans have been
    crowing about for far too long.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    Chris,
    
    Lessee now - 3 years ago the BE crushed the ACC in the ACC-BE
    challenge.  Right?  2 years ago I think the BE was up by one game.
    Am I right?
    
    Like any in-conference game, ya root for ya team.  Naturally, ya do the
    same thing when there's a inter-conference game.  The B-E fans root for
    the BE and the ACC fans root for the ACC.
    
    I don't see how that kind of rooting can be equated to "BE
    Chestthumping" or whatever.....
    
    'sides, there isn't any more BE-ACC challenge and I really don't
    remember (outside of the BE-ACC challenge stuff), the last time
    any BE rooter engaged in "my conference is better than your
    conference".  Of course, I'd like to say the same thing about the ACC
    rooter(s) but I cain't !   ;^)
    
    So, may I offer a few woords of yer long lost buddy who REALLY is gone
    from DEC -
    
    
    		Shaddup!
    
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    on my bested behavior tonight
    Kev
    

Kev -

First of all, the chestthumping ACCrook talks about was what
he heard in the 85 time frame from fans of different conference
teams.   Po Chris.  Carrying that grudge ever since.

Soup -

How come all your criticism is of the league, the coaches,
the players = and not the fans?

Who are the chest thumpers in here?

You are the biggest chest thumper of all time for the ACC - so
in other words, you cain do it, but other caint....

Good spin control though.  Whoosh, whoosh, whoosh...

JD

    Surprised no one in here mentioned the Villanova-St. Joseph's game
    on Sunday.  'Nova goes up by 19 in the first half, but it's nip and
    tuck by halftime, and St. Joe's blows them away down the stretch.
    Final score:  77-66 the Hawks.  Current A10 vs Big East tally this
    year is 3-1 in favor of the A10.
    
    One reason people may prefer to watch the A10 over the Big East is that
    the A10 has at least5 exciting temas to watch:  UMass, W Va, URI, GW,
    and St. Joe's.  You could add Rutgers if you like to watch a talented
    team implode every game!
    
    NAZZ

Like yourself Chris I really dig overrated coaches......but in my case thanks
to some eye opening experiences in ::sports and in person I can truthfully say
the problem is Thompson. He used to get the best of the best at all positions
but has reduced that to only getting the premier bigman. What good is it for
a shooting guard or small forward to attend Georgetown when he knows he'll
be second or third option at best. When he used to get the primo stuff he did
manage to make three final fours in a row and miss three championships by what
4 points? Anyways I regress, I fell in love with the defensive press and the
triple OT when they closed Manley in SU's face...Now unfortunately I think
they've lost 7 in row to SU. Doesn't sit well but what are you going to do?
Jump Ship? Naw don't think so.....

 mike

    Chris - what do I care about the A<10?  We are talking about Big 10
    country.  I'm defending my prime turf, if you want in you'll have to
    do likewise. And if I lost, what would I care if my name were A10=Big
    East - both conferences blow...
    
    Think I will be dealing with Mr. Childs - he seems more serious.
    Though I really wanted some Panther meat.
    
    Murph
    

    Redmen continue to surprise with a sterling defensive job last night at
    Providence, a nice road win for the Redmen, now 8-3 in the BE.
    
    4 of the Redmen's remaining 7 BE games are at home, starting Saturday
    evening with BC at Alumni Hall.  If BC beats Miami on the road tonight,
    both teams will come into Saturday tied for the BE lead.
    
    Lee Green started in place of Derek Brown, who was out with a sprained
    neck.  He did well, as did Sergio Lyuk off the bench.  Lamont Middleton
    and Shawnelle Scott had good games as well.
    
    Redmen Phil
                         

    
    Yabbut ya shouldda been there Phil, I could have used a pal!
    Nothing like wandering into the "enemy's den" wearing the red SHU
    baseball hat and sitting all around the PC season ticket holders!
    
    Since my personal affairs aren't quite up to date, I felt it wise to
    "tone down" a little bit.  Still, I did have some (old) lady come up to
    me after the game in a less than affectionate mood (!).
    
    True, SJU played real good defense *BUT* PC really helped by playing
    like cr*p!  Anyway, PC scored first 2-0, then again, 4-0 and finally
    SJU popped for 2 and at 16:04, although I didn't know it at that time,
    SJU would never again  relinquish the lead. 12-6 @14:05, 20-11 @8:40,
    29-15, 30-19@1:41 and 33-19 at the half.
    
    Scott, Middleton and Foster were quick and dominant in the paint. 
    David Cain is perhaps the best point guard in the BE, PC just didn't
    know how to handle him - he broke every defense they threw at him.
    PC's practices (imo) are held at a local bricklayers school.  I think
    they shot 22% from the floor in the 1st half.
    
    Didn't see Derek Brown on the bench so I don't think he made the trip.
    
    during the Intermission some PC supporter told me "You wait till the
    2nd half, we're a good 2nd half team!".
    
    I said, "so are we :^) "
    
    2nd half:  41-21 (!), 47-32, 49-33@11:24, the PC crowd starts to leave.
    I'm having a great time with come other SJU rooter across the arena. 
    He'd wave his SJU hat, I'd wave my SJU hat.  I'd pump my fist, he'd
    pump his fist.  The PC rooters near me would "boo" when I did my SJU
    thing and the PC rooters near him bood when HE did his thing.  We sorta
    did to the PC fans what SJU was doing to the PC bball team - follow my
    lead!  Great time.
    
    Anyway "future COY" Brian Mahoney started substituting at about 9:30 to
    go.  PC closed to 53-38 @8:25 (closed to 15 points btw), then made it
    to 11 (55-44) when the PC crowd FINALLY started to get into it.  They
    woke up, started to cheer and somebody must've unplugged the band
    because even they got into it! (BTW, SJU had zero cheerleaders, only
    the team &staff).  Now we're into nip and tuck - 55-46, 59-48@3:53 and
    PC's strategy is to begin the foul-a-thon.  :*(
    
    66-54@1:48, 68-54, [email protected] and PC's offense is horrible except for a
    really neat "sky hook - 2 pts" which brough the (remaining) fans to
    their feet. 71-60, 72-62, and the final score - 
    
    	SJU 73
    	 PC 64
    
    
    Absolutely loved it!!!!!
    
    Of course, now I gotta hope that Saturday's game against BC is shown on
    local tee vee!  If it's not, who has MSG? (Hi 'saw)  ;^)
    
    I remain,
    'static over lasted nights happenings!
    Kev
    

           <<< Note 23.203 by RHETT::KNORR "Atlantic10 > BigEast" >>>
              -< Objective Analysis of last nights SU > GT game. >-

    Being a Big East fan and all, I decided to take Murph up on his bet. 

P-name bet is with Childs.  Couldn't care less about Chris' terms.
Something about this "Atlantic 10 conference". Isn't that the one with
Portland State and Drexel?  

Wager is
Illinois wins - Childs = Hoyas - least of the least
Pittsburgh wins - Murph = Mets in '93

Murph

    So Childs is rooting for the Mets this year.  When are you finally
    going to decide on baseball team, Mike.

    I just can't sit here and see people ragging on Mike C. When Murph
    and I had a p-name wager on the KC-Denver game at the end of the season
    the p-name that Murph had to use was "John Elway - Girly Mon Supreme"
    this was donated by Mike C. Mike has graciously agreed to require Murph
    to use the "Mets in '93" p-name as a return favor. Talk about strange
    things - I will actually be rooting for a team from Pittsburgh to win;
    since it is non-conference it does make it easier.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    Yabbut in the "great news" department,
    
    Miami just beat BC by about 4 points.
     
    What's great about it is that SJU has sole possession of firsted place.
    Saturday's game can increase our lead!
    
    I remain,
    wondering is this a great country or what!
    Kev
    

Thanks TCM but as Mac and anyone else who's been here knows, I root for the
Mets in the NL and the Indians in the AL. Besides, I'm of the Turbo_out_Control
train of though when comes to snoozeball anyways.....

mike

	SJU		8-3
	SH		7-4
	BC		7-4
	Pitt		7-5
	SU		6-6
	G'town		5-6
	UConn		5-6
	Miami		5-6
	PC		3-8
	Vill		3-8

I think I saw that UConn beat Vill on Tues, is that correct ?

>I think I saw that UConn beat Vill on Tues, is that correct ?


Yeah.  I think it was by about 20 points but I'm not sure of that.  Just
heard it in passing on the radio.....


'Saw

    Nice win by the Canes last night over BC.
    
    A few Redmen scheduling notes for next year:
    
    SJU, tentatively set to visit Duke next season, is looking for a major
    nonconference opponent to play at Madison Square Garden and may try to
    bring in North Carolina.  Another ACC team, Georgia Tech, is a leading
    contender to join the Redmen n the ECAC Holiday Festival for next year.
    
    Because of scheduling constraints caued by SJU's participation in the
    1993 Preseason NIT, next year's Lapchick Tournament might be reduced
    to a single game event.
    
    Redmen Phil
                                                                        

    Pittsburgh beat Illinois 95-79. I would like to welcom Murph into NY
    Mets fandom, if only for a brief period of time. My one regret is that
    I will be overseas for a week, returning evening of Monday Feb. 22 and
    it is unlikely I will see his notes until then. The flip side is that
    there will be an appropriate p-name in the file even though I will
    be away.
    
    Way to go Mike C. !!
    
    The Crazy Met
    

          
         Yabbut as Flounder would say, "this is GREAT!"

         Here I am, in the comfort of my warm home in central Taxacchusetts
         while I imagine Redman Phil fighting the traffic onto the Grand Central
         Expressway and then onto the Cross Island and then onto the
         suicidal curve to the Southern State Parkway while he heads home
         with one thought in mind - " I gotta tell Kev about the best game
         I've seen SJU play so far...".  :^]

         Of course, if he takes the L.I.R.R. to Hicksville, he'll have more
         time to ponder this...maybe next time he'll use the laptop?
    
    Ha ha - beat cha!
    

         ;*)   :*)   :*)   :*)


         HA HA HA - Phil I beat ya to it! But I'll let ya fill in the "Up
         close and personal parts since I was there" segments.
    
            First off, this was "Senior Night" (What's that mean -
         ceremonially speaking?) and it happened to be the last game on
         campus (Alumni Hall) for the seniors.  All the rest of their games
         are either away or at Madison Square Garden (of course this
         doesn't include their trip to the "Big Dance"!

         For all of you who love this stuff, here's how it went down - 
         (and for those who don't  -> tuff SLOF!)

         SJU draws firsted blood, 2-0 and then shows BC that they (SJU)
         mean to fight to keep the #1 BE position. 6-2 (SJU), 10-2;
         SJU defense, like they have been all season, is great!  Slap da
         ball, take it away and pass it to a teammate for either a layup or
         a 2 pointer.  SJU is up for this game.  It should have been the
         game to break the tie for #1 but since Miami beat BC earlier this
         week this game's emotional thing  was somewhat decreased. 
         However, SJU is playing GREAT team ball (imo)!

         16-6, 16-8, 16-10, 19-10 (@10:29) of course SJU is in da lead!
         21-12; 24-14 and Lee green makes a GREAT 3 point shot to make it
         24-17 (boo!), 26-20, 28-20, @4:58, 

         (Did anybody else notice that Alumni Hall's walls were whiter and
         smoother than usual?  Does anybody but me know that when you see
         the ceiling that you are actually seeing the bottom of the
         swimming pool? YUP!  The SJU swimming pool is directly above the
         court!

         Anyway, My main main from my hometown (Franklin Square) Derek
         Brown makes a great looking dunk.  Later on, Lamonte Middleton
         gets fouled and I noticed that, in addition to his bent knees
         position, he releases this shot while pushing off on his toes.
         (Somebody tell him that this is bad form -OK?)  Anyway, SJU is
         making BC look pretty bad, mostly because of their great
         defensive play.  At the Half - SJU 38 BC 23!

         Just for fun  so far
                   SJU       BC
         Shooting%  55       30
         Turn over   7       11
         PaintPoints24       4

         Did I Mention Curley had 2 fouls so far?

         Anyway, 2nd half------

         42-31, 42-37 (BC is shooting outside), 42-39 BC has the ball on a
         fast break, Derek Brown (SJU) Makes a great shot block but in the
         fracas David Cain gets called for a "T".  Somehow the score
         becomes 43-42 and BC leads for the first time in da game! 
         Anyway, regular BBall and then ther's a bash under the hoop,
         Curley gets a clean block, Middleton (SJU) gets hammered and a
         "T" gets called. After the fouls and the f/t's, SJU leads by 1,
         46-45. Phil starts to get worried and wakes up the crowd - Alumni
         Hall starts to roar!

          (thanks Phil  ;^)

         Lyuk (sju) makes a 3 pointer 49-45 SJU!  BC has problems- SJU is
         playing great defense!  SJU crowd helps!  College Basketball
         is at it's best!!!!!!!!!  Rah, Rah, Rah!!!!!

         MrT's ghost is in NYC - "T" is called on SJU, later, it's BC.

         57-56 (SJU) @ 3:40
         59-56 (SJU) @ 0:46 (seconds - fwi)
         60-56       @ 0:30 - foul fest starts but not really a game
         killer.

         BC's Eisley fouls out 
         SJU Scott (my MVP for the game) fouls out :21 to go

         60-58 SJU


         Final (Yahoo!)

         SJU -     65
         BC        61

           
         BTW - did anybody mention that BC is the #1 3pt team in the BE?
         no?
         Did anybody mention that Curley it the #1 free throw shooter in
         the BE?

         didn't think so...

         <set mode big - big - smile! >

         I remain,
         older but yet faster than my buddy Phil!
         Kev
 - 
          
         Wuzzit great or what?  Whatta game!  

    At this time next week, I'll guarantee that UMASS will be
    ranked ahead of any Big (L)East teams since Seton Hall & Pitt should
    have their typical weekly loss.
    
    I still don't understand how this conference is  getting this much
    respect in the rankings still.  They usually have 3-4 teams ranked
    in the bottom 25 even though most of them have 5-8 losses.  BTW,
    who are Seton Hall & Pitt playing this week?
    
    Larry

    Larry,
    
    1st things firsted:
    
    BC @ Pitt Tuesday
    UConn @ Pitt Saturday
    
    SH @ SJU Wednesday (ESPN 9:00PM start)
    Georgetown @SHU Sunday.
    
    gth!
    
    re: B-E getting so much respect in the rankings....
    
    You been dipping into dInZ's schrooms again?  ;^)
    
    I remain,
    wondering how we'll look on ESPN on Wednesday?
    Kev

And the game wasn't the worst part of the trip - but that is another story
for another notes file.  A few too many turnovers and some definite mismatches
on D.  Lookin past Pitt to IU.  At least not a conf loss.

M

Gee, and Atlantic 10 just strikes so much fear.  The overrated UMASS
club
and then a bunch of nothing teams playing simple, easy schedules.

When's the last time a_Atlantic 10 team won a champeenship anyway?

Boy, all these trendy noveau fans.  One year UMASS does good and they
are out of the woodwork chest strutting.  

Hey ACCrook - how cain you like a bunch of chest strutters like these
folks?

JD

    	JD, you're just jealous because UMASS is better than Northeastern.
    
    				/Don

    >Gee, and Atlantic 10 just strikes so much fear.  The overrated
    >UMASSclub and then a bunch of nothing teams playing simple, easy schedules.
    
    I'd bet the A-10 plays just as strong of a out of league schedule as
    the Big East does now.  UMASS has played Florida St, Oklahoma
    & Cincinatti out of league and in its three losses, none were worse
    than 8 points and two were played without their leading scorer and
    A10 MVP last year.  St. Bonnaventure beat Notre Dame, Temple beat
    BC, URI beat Providence & St Josephs beat Villanova..Not a cream
    puff schedule like some of the Big East teams play (read Georgetown).
    
    And why do you say UMASS is over-rated?
    Larry                                                                            
    

    JD thinks everybody is overrated.

Oh boy, the Bonnies played Notre Dame.  Now that's tough - NOT.

Larry, why is UMASS overrated - because so many trendy hanger-ons
have suddenly become Minuteman faux fans that it is sickening.

Before last year, a handful of folks intoned Dr.J stories and that
was it.   Now every other person is a big time UMASS fan and saying
that they and the A-10 are a_elite conference.

Purty darn funny - but its really rich that Accrisp is on da 
bandwagon, cuz he loathes the BigEast (of which he's a fain) for
the chest strutting fains that we see the A-10 suddenly having.

The A-10 has one team that has the tradition to be mentioned wif
da big boys - Temple.

JD

Mac -

I think you are underrated, FWIW.

I think a lot of college hoops teams in non 'name' conferences
are vastly underrated.

I think a lot of college hoops teams are overrated because of
conference affiliation.

JD

    JD,
    
    I didn't jump on the UMASS bandwagon, I am a UMASS alumni and have
    followed the basketball team since the mid 80's.  The #3 seed
    last year might have been a little high - probably should have
    been #4 or a #5 but they did make it to the sweet 16 and have
    a great chance to do it this year and for the next few given
    the quality of the recruits they are real good this year.
    
    Let me think, didn't Notre Dame beat BC fairly easily earlier this
    year??
    
    Larry

    
    JD,
    
    Is there any possibility that you had a Vulcan mind transplant with a
    x-noter from minnsoda?
    
    I keep thinking " reach out and taunt someone (tm)" when I see yer
    name!
    
    Anyway, as Tommy said, I remain and
    I'm not afraid to hit the big issues!
    Kev
    

    FWIW,
    
    
    UConn vs. Syr tonight.
    
    ESPN 7:30
    
    I remain,
    glad the <heart> day is over!
    Kev
    

    AActually JD's bumbled onto something.  This sudden infatuation with the
    A10 and UMass is starting to remind me of the 80's when the whole
    NorthEastCorridor jumped on the trendy BigLeast's bandwagon.  In a
    matter of a few short years the BigTVeast was suddently "the best" 
    conference in America, supposedly better than the storied ACC and B10.  
    
    Yuk.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Jd's 100% right in saying that there are suddenly a lot of fans of UMass and
the A-10 conference. I say, " So What? " I'm happy for the talk about the A-10,
I'm happy that a formerly trodden University has finally hit the big time in
at leat one mens sport, I'm happy that they're playing in front of big crowds
and inspired students....

If JD lived in Cincy he'd be spouting the same crap about the Bearcats.

It's nice to be an alumni of a school that is starting to get some name 
recognition. It's nice to be an alumnus of the school you're rooting for.

I just with we got Madison Garden Channel out here. Instead I got to rely 
on my folks calling me up and telling me the score after tha game. 

I'm a happy camper and I bet John Hendry is also...


Metz

    
    >>               -< I hope Calipari stays for 10 years... >-
    
    I had an order of Calipari once, it was fried and sort of rubbery.  If
    ya kept it fer 10 years, wouldn't it be really rotten.  Isn't it really
    just squid wif a funny name???
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

I thought it was octopus. If'n it tasted rubbery then you got some bad stuff.
Good fried calamari just sort of melts in your mouth...

Distinctive taste though..

Metz

Correction:

	Ninj will be on MCI Mail.


re ACC Chris and his BigEastOPhobia(tm):

		@broken_record.com



re Calipari:

	Jake, are you sure it was Calipari and not Scungili?


8^)

    Unofficial A10/Big East rankings, as of 2/15:
    
    1) UMass
    2) Seton Hall
    3) George washington
    4) St. John's 
    5) Pitt
    6) Rhode Island
    7) St. Joseph's
    8) BC
    9) Sorryexcuse (tm)
    10) Temple
    11) West Virginia
    12) UConn
    13) Rutgers
    14) Georgetown
    15) St. Bonaventure
    16) Providence
    17) Villanova
    18) Miami
    
    Tournament teams:  NCAA - UMass, George Washington, Rhode Island
    			      Seton Hall, St. John's, Pitt
    		       NIT - West Virginia, Temple, St. Joseph's
    		             Boston College, UConn
    
    I predict Georgetown will get an invitation to the NIT, but Thompson
    will instruct his team to turn it down.
    
    NAZZ

    
>>Good fried calamari just sort of melts in your mouth...
             ^^^^^^^^
    
    Calamari?????  Not Calapari???
    
    (set mode/voice=Emily Latella)    N E V E R M I N D !!!!!
    
    (8^)*
    
    BTW, isn't  "Good Calamari" an oxymoron???   SOrta like "Jumbo Shrimp",
    or Military Intelligence"????
    
    Didn't think there was such a thang as "good calamari"!!
    
    JaKe
    

    Re: 224
    
    Kev, great job on the play-by-play.
    
    Still, a few notes:
    
    BC Coach Jim O'Brien has stated that the crowd behind his bench at SJU's 
    Alumni Hall was the most vulgar he's seen in all the years he's been 
    coaching.  No doubt about it, the Crowd was great!  We need more games
    like this at Alumni Hall.  SJU will probably play BC at the Garden next
    year.
    
                                                                  
    O'Briene had his team sit on some tiny folding chairs on the court during
    timeouts.  
    
    The game was a real BE slugfest, with chippy fouls and 5 technicals
    called.  The players from both teams came close to a brawl during the
    second half after BC had made their run to get back in the game.  No
    doubt SJU was frustrated.
    
    After the game, O'Brien walked off the court to the dressing room with
    out shaking SJU Coach Mahoney's hand.  Mahoney sought him out to shake
    hands, but O'Brien then refused.
    
    Lot's of talk today on WFAN (Mike Francesa and Chris Russo were on
    press row Saturday evening) today re: the game.  Both noticed the
    above, and Russo stated today that Billy Curley has been quoted as
    saying that he wishes the BC crowd were as into the game as the SJU
    crowd was.
    
    If anyone has any articles from Boston way, please send them to me
    @NYO.
    
    Next big game is Wednesday (ESPN, 9 PM) at the Garden v. SHU.  Terry Dehere
    always plays great vs. SJU, so this should be a good one.
    
    Redmen Phil 
          

    	I was enjoying the Richmond/George Washington game on ESPN
    yesterday afternoon when suddenly I realized that I was watching
    a team from the Atlantic 10 that had lost to UMASS!  But I must
    confess that much like a junk food junkie can't resist those Ring
    Dings I continued to watch and enjoy.  Hi, my name is /Don and I'm
    a fan of the Atlantic 10...
    
    				/Don

re:  UMass not getting respect

They've had one big year, and got to the Sweet 16 via a "cushy" homecourt
advantage.  I think respect will come if they get back to the Round-of-16
this year, and don't play anywhere in New England along the way.

    I don't see yelling vulgar and personal insults at the other team to be
    a plus in terms of fan support.  Loud yeah, personal stuff no...
    

    
    Yabbut Walt,  please remember, these *ARE* noo yawkers.  Like you'd
    expect different behavior?
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    Phil never told us 'zactly where he sits, did he?
    Kev
    

Nazz ranks UMASS ahead of the Hall and Pitt?  Haw!

JD

    Re: 249 and 250
    
    I do sit on the side of the benches, but not behind either one.  I'm 10
    rows up at center court.  I taped the game and watched it last night. 
    During a break in the action, they were panning the crowd, and wouldn't
    you know, there's the missus and I on the screen!
    
    On WFAN yesterday, a number of SJU ticket holders called in stating that 
    O'Brien's claims on the vulgarity of the crowd were totally false.  In
    fact, most complained that O'Brien was bitching about every single
    call.  From my vantage point, I would agree.   Then, I watched closely
    last night when I viewed the tape, and lo and behold, there was O'Brien
    in the Refs faces on every single call.   Hmmmm.....
    
    Maybe he was hearing himself.....
    
    (Proud to be part) Redmen Phil 
                                   

    For years now folks have been all over JohnThompson for playing so many
    cupcakes early in the year.  This season was no exception as the likes
    of St. Leo, Md-Eastern Shore, and Morgan State "invaded" Gougetown U.
    
    But is this *really* badness?!  On the surface, yes, but let's take a
    closer look.  The "cupcakes" we're talking about (the ones that
    typically get their haids hainded to 'em by embarassing margins) make a
    good deal of CASH for these sacrificial games.  In fact, a program can
    almost pay for their entire expenses for the year, thanks to_a big
    payday against a top-quality club.  I wouldn't exactly call this
    situation bad for college basketball.  Quite the reverse, actually. 
    Instead of Georgetown playing, saying, North Carolina and both teams
    banking big checks, the current Thompson "philosophy" actually spreads
    the wealth and, IMHO, is *good* for the game.
    
    My change of heart on this matter (I've critized Thompson myself on
    this issue, as well as Clemson, et al) is the situation that College of
    the Charleston finds themselves in.  For years now their games against
    Division 1 opponents like Georgia Tech have literally paid for the
    entire program.  Now that they're good, Tech won't play 'em, and for
    good reason.  (Nothing to be gained; lots to be lost.)  They're now
    facing a situation where they've actually gotten too good to get pay
    days against the collegiate cash cows, yet they're not good enough to
    gain consistent entrance to the NCAA tourney, where typically a
    $250,000 check is yours (or your conferences to share) just for
    qualifying for Round 1.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Chris,

What you speak of is not new.  Its been done if football also.

East Carolina about 7-8 years ago, played a brutal schedule -
I think 8-9 away games, including 3 homecomings (they played
Miami, FSU, etc...)   They were a horrible team, that got
downright kilt.  However, did they bring in serious cash.

Now that money was used to upgrade both sports programs and
academics - the Pirates hoops teams have improved to the point
where they were decent clubs.

Of course, even the East Carolina football coach at the time
questioned it because of the negative impact it had on the
players...

JD

    The East Carolina football coach likely was Bill Lewis, the current
    coach @ GaTech.
    
    For me a *vewy* interesting question I'd like to axe John Thompson is
    whether or not he's overtly scheduling these cupcakes to supplement
    their programs.  It wouldn't surprise me, especially in the cases where
    he's playing black (or predominately black) colleges.
    
    Thompson is a very principled man.  (Whether you agree with his
    principles is another matter.)  He's also very stubborn, and I can
    easily see him not offering this to DickieVitale or the rest of the
    media as an "excuse" as to why he plays these cupcakes.  Also consider
    that if the univerisity felt he was intentionally diverting funds (that
    *is* what we're talking about here) they likely would take a very dim
    view to the idea, despite the untold *millions* JT has brought into the
    program over the past several decades.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    How can a coach "intentionally divert funds" by scheduling a cupcake?
    
    Are we sure Chris' change of heart about Georgetown isn't because of
    Baby Blue scheduling practices?

    Chris, I think this "cupcake scheduling" argument you (and many other 
    apologists before you) use is only defensible if you agree with the
    premise that there should be some 300-odd basketball programs in the
    country trying to take a crack at big-time status.  Fact is, most of
    these programs attempting to get in over their heads lose money hand 
    over fist whether they receive such help or not, as do most Division I
    athletic programs in general.  As for Thompson, if his ideal for 
    contributing to black universities is to help create more Georgetown
    basketball programs, then once again as with his opposition to Prop 48
    (did you guys catch Arthur Ashe's well-argued case on this subject in
    SI?) his efforts might be sincere but are misplaced.  Personally, I think
    it's a stretch to believe that he's not just padding the old Georgetown 
    U schedule like everyone thinks... 
    
    glenn
    

    .256  Re: Soup's change of heart
    
    I tend to agree with your inference that soup is now trying to justify
    UNC schedule.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

>    .256  Re: Soup's change of heart
>    
>    I tend to agree with your inference that soup is now trying to justify
>    UNC schedule.
>    
>    John "D Cowboys" R.


There was always something about Soup that I couldnt' quite put me finger
on.  He reminded me of someone, but I couldn't quite figure out who.

Then it hit me.

Soup is just like Gollum from "Lord of the Rings".  Gollum never had the
guts to come around when any of the real heavy hitters where out and
about, but as soon as they left the scene, out he came, spewing his
meaningless babble. 


Yep, that's it in a nutshell....


'Saw

"Ah yes, my precious."

Conisoir of all the Lord of the Rings tales,
Bill

    Six hours to SJU/SHU at the Garden.....
    
    ESPN, 9 pm.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    Face it people:  Yer afraid that I really *aim* the ObjectiveAnalyst
    I claim to be, in which case you're stuck with the realization that the
    BigLeast really *is* the 7th best conference in the USA.  (Used to be
    6th best, but the RPI ratings today dropped 'em to 7th.  Haw haw!!!)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    
    
    JaKe
    

    
    As I've said before, ACChris is almost pathologically involved in this
    intense argument with himself, one in which he can't win but will 
    inevitably take the big fall for.  Heaven help him if it's a Big East
    team that does the dirty deed to his UNC team in this year's tourney.
    That would have to vault right over Dean Smith's getting bounced from
    the semis two years ago as the most thigh-shuddering moment in SPORTS
    history.  Not saying that it'll happen, but something totally
    unexpected and unusually cruel usually does to da Heels.  'Course he
    can then do what he did then: turn up missing for several months...
    
    glenn
     

>               -< Okay ObjectiveAnalist, what round this year? >-
>
>    
>    As I've said before, ACChris is almost pathologically involved in this
>    intense argument with himself, one in which he can't win but will 
>    inevitably take the big fall for.  Heaven help him if it's a Big East
>    team that does the dirty deed to his UNC team in this year's tourney.
>    That would have to vault right over Dean Smith's getting bounced from
>    the semis two years ago as the most thigh-shuddering moment in SPORTS
>    history.  Not saying that it'll happen, but something totally
>    unexpected and unusually cruel usually does to da Heels.  'Course he
>    can then do what he did then: turn up missing for several months...
    

As is typically his style he keeps beating that dead horse that no one
in here is really interested in....  

I guess it's hard to be Objective when you wear Baby Blew glasses, (glasses
that you didn't by as an alum, btw)......


Pathological is a good word there, Glenn....


'Saw     

    4 hours to SJU/SHU at the Garden.  
    
    This should be a good one.
    
    ESPN, 9 PM.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    All I axe is a simple confession from you BigLeasters and I'll be on my
    Way.  It goes something along the lines of the mainly Brydie's
    soul-cleansing:
    
    I, [fill_in_name_of_NorthEastCorridor_BigLeast_chest_thumper], do
    solemnly admit that the Big East conference was a made-for-TV league
    that, even in its "glory" years (all 2 or 3 of 'em) couldn't hold a
    candle to the ACC or Big 10.
    
    Furthermore it's now a conference in decay, patently inferior to even
    the Atlantic10.
    
    Signed,
    
    Former Big East Chest-Thumper [your_name]

    I'm not a Big East chest thumper, so maybe this doesn't count:

    I do solemnly admit that the Big East conference was a made-for-TV
    league designed to increase the income for its member schools (not that
    that is bad, BTW; I don't see the ACC refusing any TV dollars).  In its
    glory years it was better than the ACC and Big 10, but those years did
    not last long.  It is a conference that is currently down, about equal
    in overall results this year to the Atlantic Ten Conference.

================================================================================
Note 77.30                Official UMASS Athletics Note                 30 of 32
MSBCS::BRYDIE "The Peter Principle in action"         5 lines  17-FEB-1993 08:21
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   >> -< Next Up: He's a URI fan, a Rutgers fan, a GWU fan, a ..... >-
    
      Ack Chris, I said I root for LOCAL teams and athletes. I didn't
      say I adopt a half assed program from a university I never attended,
      in a state I don't live in.
    
    
    
    ==  For the record, I fit the reverse profile.  I did adopt, I didn't
    "officially" attend, and I don't live in Noo Yaawk (anymore) either.
    
    I also root for Grafton HS (didn't go there), and the team my brother
    coaches (13 yr. old girls) in No. Smithfield R.I.
    
    
    I remain,
    a faux-fan of SJU and my brother?
    Kev
    

    Thge Big East has a good record on teams that make it to the NCAA
    tourney... What has the Big-10, ACC, Pac 10 done these years?
    
    1983 5 teams BC, GT, SJ, Syr, Vill
    1984 4   "   GT, SJ, Syr, Vill
    1985 6   "   BC, GT, Pitt, SJ, Syr, Vill
    1986 4   "   GT, SJ, Syr, Vill
    1987 5   "   GT, Pit, Prov, SJ, Syr
    1988 6   "   GT, Pit, SJ, SH, Syr, Vill
    1989 5   "   GT, Pit, Prov, SH, Syr
    1990 6   "   Ucon, GT, Prov, ST, Syr, Vill
    1991 7   "   Ucon, GT, Pit, SJ, SH, Syr, Vill
    1992 5   "   Ucon, GT, SJ, SH, Syr
    
    REK

Very entertaining BE game lasted night.  Lots of surges and momentumn shifts.
Looked like SJU was in control mid second half, but SH came roaring back.

Flat footed tie for first - for now.

Cmon now Bob, it was the Big Least, how could the game be entertaining
and furthermore why weren't you watching the Pres' speech???

;^)

great game. Dehere was certainly ALL_WORLD last night....Reguardless
of the outcome I would say Mahoney is the BE coach of the year without
a doubt. I hear that he is trying to schedule some big time opponents
over the next few years. Hopefully he will lead the rest of the conference
in this direction and away from the JT cupcakeamania.....

long live the BIG EAST the greatest CONFERENCE in the World!!!!!!!!!

mike

�Cmon now Bob, it was the Big Least, how could the game be entertaining
�and furthermore why weren't you watching the Pres' speech???

If it warn't for all da BigLeast bashing, I wouldda said it was a great game. 
If I had, I'm sure someone wouldda said "full of turnovers and bad passes, 
blah, blah, blah".

I watched all of the prez's speech, but turned to the game during the applause.

=Bob=

Geez -

Wasn't there a period when the ACC didn't send teams
to the Final Four.  Same for Big10 too - if I remember
teh Bob Hunt, MrT information correctly.

Glenn hits it on the haid.  IgKnoor is arguing wif hisself.  He 
has no roots in da ACC.  No real college ties.  And he done hitched
hisself up wif the wrong school in North Carolina.  

I do know that Big East was in 5 title games in the 80's.  And missed
3 titles by a total of 4 points.  

I don't know why he isn't harping on the Metro conference.  They had
two champeenships (including a win over a_ACC team) in the 80's, but
nary a peep for a long, long time...

Soup is a combination of Chicken Little and the Boy Who Cried WOlf.

JD

>Glenn hits it on the haid.  IgKnoor is arguing wif hisself.  He 
>has no roots in da ACC.  No real college ties.  And he done hitched
>hisself up wif the wrong school in North Carolina.  

I guess when you cain't find anyone else to play, you play with
yourself.......


8^)

'Saw

    Well, the throat is sore, but I couldn't be prouder of the Redmen. 
    Picked to finish 9th in the BE this year, they had the top rated BE
    team, SHU, on the ropes last night, but let them escape.  
    
    In the first half SJU suffered with Derek Brown and Lamont Middleton out
    with 2 fouls each.  Even though the Redmen were tied at 37 at the half,
    the foul differential was clearly in favor of SHU.
    
    And for the second half, and for the first 3 minutes of OT, SHU had
    only 7 fouls (that's 7 fouls in 23 minutes!).  A team with Luther
    Wright and Jerry Walker can't just have 7 fouls in 23 minutes.  I'd
    like to see the boxscore on this one.
    
    As I said previously, Dehere kills SJU.  And, last night he lit SJU
    up for 41 points!!  Boy, is he quick.  Even when he didn't shoot, he  
    dropped the ball off for easy hoops to the inside guys.
    
    Derek Brown hit a couple of 3's in the last minute of regulation to
    give the Redmen a chance, but the problem for SJU was the period of
    time that SHU stopped their running game in the 2nd half and forced
    them into a half court game.
    
    And, to add insult to injury, I got home at 12:30 AM and the VCR never
    kicked in.....
    
    Tough one upcoming Saturday evening in Miami. The Redmen need this one
    to make up for the home loss last night.
    
    Redmen Phil
                          

    For Soupy....
    
           I Mark Matthew Chapalonis do solemnly swear that the Big East
    conference was a made for Tv league that has won more Championships in
    its brief being in the NCAA's than Snuffy's underachieving overated
    "Team's" have ever came close to winning.
    
                  Other than one ACC team (Duke) the ACC has been shut out
    of the finals for the last 10 years. Face it Chris nobody is buying
    your Southeastern chest thumping routine and furthermore.....
    
           I'm willing to run the next Pool: 
    
                  Pick the round that Snuffy will be knocked out of the
    NCAA's this year and send your selections to WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M and
    we'll see who the winner is....
    
          PS I got Rd 2...:-)

>     In other news, there's a remote possibility that as many as four 
>    teams from Massachusetts could make the tourney. UMass is almost 
>    certainly in as is Holy Cross. Northeastern has a good shot and BC 
>    is on the bubble. This state isn't basketball crazy like Kentucky, 
>    Indiana or North Carolina so this really would be something.

     Massachusetts is almost certainly in; I believe that if BC ends in the
     Big East's top 4 teams they are in.  Holy Cross is not certainly in;
     they play in a weak conference that will get only one bid.  HC and
     Bucknell have identical records in the conference and overall; they
     will likely meet in the conference championship, where they must win
     to go to the NCAA's.  Similarly, Northeastern is in a conference where
     both Drexel and Delaware are as good as NE; the Huskies would likely
     have to beat both in the conference tournament to make the NCAA's
     (it is not likely they will end up as the #1 seed in the NAC).

    Northeastern spends this weekend at Delaware and Drexel - this trip
    will determine NAC seedings and home court advantage for the tourney.
    Being first is especially important this year, as the other two teams
    will have to play each other in the semifinals and then travel to the 
    top seeded team's gym to play the championship game.  The Huskies and
    Drexel each have one conference loss; Delaware has two.
    
    As for the Big Least, SI has a nice scoreboard article on why the
    Big East sips in this week's issue.  SI is right on target, focusing
    on how ugly Big Least teams play, and how the coaches (especially
    O'Brien) not only condone it, but seek to makew it more ugly.
    
    Until the Big Least looks hard into a mirror, the conference will
    continue its downward tumble.
    
    NAZZ

    Redmen lost to the 'Canes last night in Miami.  Its a shame, because BC
    lost also.  
    
    Boy, that loss to SHU last week really hurts!   SHU/Gtown moments from
    starting.
    
    Redmen Phil
             

    UCONN wins two on the road last week to bolster their shot at
    getting in the big dance.  Did anyone catch the UCONN/Pitt game
    Saturday night?  All I've seen so far is the final 81-80.  
    Huskies are now 13-8 and 8-6 in the conference tied for third with
    BC.  They have 4 conference games left, 2 on the road (Hall?, and PC).
    They also have a bunny win against Maine next week.  I think if they
    win 3 of 4 conference games along with Maine it would be tough to leave
    them out at 17-9, 11-7 plus the BE Tourney.  At 16-10, 10-8 they might
    need to win 2 games in the tourney to get a bid.
    
    Jimbo
    	

	Jimbo,

	Which team was on the 81 end of that score?  My instincts tell me that
	it was not Pitt.  They seem to be pacing themselves out of any invite 
	to either post season tourney.  From what I've seem on the tube Pitt
	is capable of some impressive minutes, but have had trouble making
	it last for 40 minutes.

	Bill

    The Huskies won 81-80 but that's all I know.  The Sunday Globe is
    THE worst paper for Saturday night hoop coverage!
    
    Jimbo

Most analysts have been saying that any team that finishes above .500
in BE play will get into the NCAA tournament.  I think UConn is a lock
the way they're playing lately.  Ollie looks good, and point guards
make a world of difference in the tournament.

I saw BC play SU at Conte last Saturday, and BC is flirting with not
making the NCAA tourney if they don't right the ship.  Marc Molinsky
and this Grant kid were the only ones who kept them in Sat's game,
and that's mostly because SU ignored them.  Curley played OK, but he's
clearly not a creator, and therefore cannot carry that team.  The 3
guards (Abrams, Eisley, Huckaby) were nonexistant.  They have 2 tough
ones on the road (UConn, SH) and 2 winnable games at home (Miami, PC).
IMO, they have to split, and win one in the BE tourney to get in the
NCAA tournament.

As and SU fan, it was fun watching McRae and Wallace swat away BC shots
time after time.  Wallace WILL be a star, possibly as early as next year,
and a sure lottery pick when he comes out.


BTW, latest reports in BE Briefs have NBA scouts saying that the BE's
two top seniors have slipped in draft position.  Dehere has raised
some questions with his poor play in a number of games this year, and
most NBA teams are afraid Burrell will play baseball.  Dehere appears
to have slipped out of the lottery, and Burrell should be at the back
of round 1.  Surprisingly, SU's McRae should go late round 1 or early
round 2.  The 3 scouts interviewed all said that he has disappointed
in his 4 college years (after a high billing coming out of HS), but
at times has shown promise.  They say he's big and athletic, and with
a lack of big men in this year's draft, he'll get picked by someone.

The scouts say that the dearth of senior talent (not one franchise-type
player), there will be a number of underclassmen coming out and dominating
the lottery (eg: Hardaway, Webber, Mashburn, etc.).

    The Pitt-Providence game lasted night was perhaps the WORST game in a
    horrible season of Big East bball.  The Friars shot 10-24 from the foul
    line, and they were the hot team from the stripe!  Pitt was 5-14!!!
    The Panthers went over 8 1/2 minutes without scoring late in the
    second half, and still had a chance to win!!!  But who's taking two of 
    their final three shots?  Some guy from the end of the bench who the
    announcers had never heard of.  Unreal.
    
    NAZZ

    Redmen won at G'town last night in a very sloppy game to go to 10-5 in
    the BE and 15-8 overall.  With 2 home games (vs. 'Nova and Syracuse) and
    a regular season finale left at SHU, the Redmen may have cemented their
    NCAA spot for '93.
    
    Jr. C Shawnelle Scott was out of action last night due to a sprained
    ankle, but he should be ready to go for the final 3 games.  6'6" Fr. F
    Charles Minlend spent most of the night guarding 6'10" Fr. C Othella
    Harrington, and he did a credible job.  For SJU, Lamont Middleton and
    David Cain once again led the way, with Derek Brown and Sergio Lyuk
    providing needed support as well.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    The big east I agree has lost a lot of entertainment value.  I watched
    10 minutes of Iowa State - Kansas Monday night and saw four or five
    clean drives to the hoop demonstrating the artistic, athleticism which
    has made college basketball such a great game to watch over the years.
    
    The Big East has both a lot of contact and a lot of referees calls
    making it rare to see the type of driving to the hoop that entertains.
    
    It will be interesting to see St Johns in the NCAAs if they make it as
    they won't be coached by Louie.
    
    Providence with their sheer physical and athletic bodies may be a dark
    horse in NCAAs but then again are a dark horse to make the NCAA.
    
    So much of Big East success in post season will depend on the way the
    games are referreed.  Assumming any teams other than St Js and Seton
    Hall make it - Syracuse winning tourney and beating Conn.,/Prov/BC on
    the way could be a disaster.
    
    Bill

Does the Big East still have the 6 foul rule for league play?
That may contribute to the more physical play that goes on.

Mike

    
    
        6 Foul rule/ NO
    
    Chappy

re:  BREEN

What do you mean by 'clean drives to the hoop'?????

DO you mean uncontested layups?  If that's the case, then what's so 
great about that.  I've always thought that defenders should never
give up anything easily.

I also think the physical play stuff with the Big East is overrated
by detractors.  The Big 10 has always and will always be a very,
very physical game.   I think the Big East detractors remember the
fights, etc. of past years - and other conferences have had their
share of them too.

I see sheer athleticism in every college hoops game I watch - no matter
the conference.

The BE does not have the 6 foul rule anymore.  

Basketball, as anyone who has played it knows, is a contact sport.

JD

    JD,
    	Watched some of the BC - Conn game last night and was impressed by
    both quality and entertainment value.
    
    	I also watched for drives to the hoop which were effectively
    defensed in the 5-10 minutes I watched and I would agree that active
    feet not fouling was the key.
    
    	I will guess however, that in the Big 8 kids are coached more to
    stay away from fouling on such drives whereas in big east I can see
    that (I think that this relates to your point) they are particularly
    loathe to give up the base line.
    
    	Horse on me then, I need to watch more big east as unquestionably
    they are playing very aggressive, tough defense which is great and if
    it means I don't get to see my artistry so be it.
    
    	However, one defensive technique pioneered by Tripucka and Laimbeer
    of the 70s Irish is the falling down, particularly when receiving
    incidental contact after a drive and layup has occurred.
    
    	More and more I see referees ignoring this and I love to see the
    no-call when a defender has made no attempt to stop the drive but
    merely moved to a spot that the offensive player will land.  Since,
    often some pain is received defenders may abandon this if the call is
    not made.
    
    Bill
    
    btw why only 5-10 minutes of watching??  because that is when my 3yr
    old popped Rescuers Down Under into the VCR and switched the tv to
    channel 3.  He is honing his George C. Scott (McGlitch) impressions.

The BC-UConn game was a goodun.

Poor Curley got beat up bad in the middle. The definite difference was
Burrell, although BC had some guard who was awesome down the stretch. Who
was this guy? In any case, it all came down to a final stretch run and
that's about all you can ask for any game, no matter your opinion of the
conference(s) involved.

TTom (who watched but didn't listen)

 Gerrod Abrams was the "hot" guard for BC last night. Also the brainless
 one who forced that last shot.....

 mike

Abrams looked like he thought he was Michael Jordan in the NBA and almost
expected a call before he flung it up, or whatever you might want to call
it.

Calling it a shot it giving it some credibility. 

TTom

    Kev, I wasn't able to get you the BE Tourney ticket application; my friend
    never got it.  However, at the Garden Saturday night, they were announcing
    that there were still tickets available for the Tourney, so you might
    want to contact the Garden directly if you're still interested.
    
    Re: Saturday's game vs. 'Nova - SJU is falling into a bad pattern,
    where they get a big lead (in this case, 17 points in the 1st half),
    only to lose most or all of the lead (as they did vs. 'Nova).
    
    Thanks to a late T on Steve Lappas (another BE coach who's on the refs for
    every call), and a big 3 from Derek Brown, the Redmen were able to win to 
    go to 11-5 in the BE, with a home game tonight at the Garden vs. SU, and 
    then the finale on CBS Saturday at the Hall.  Redmen are 16-8 overall, and 
    should have finalized their spot in the NCAA.  What a pleasant and
    rewarding season!!  The way I see it, Brian Mahoney has got to be BE
    COY.  He is also a finalist (among 12) for National COY.
    
    On another note, there's a rumor circulating that Fr. PG John Giraldo
    is considering transferring from Monmouth to SJU.  He would have to sit
    out next year if this is true.  Giraldo was considered a major recruit
    for Monmouth this year.
    
    Redmen Phil
    
    
    

Redmen Phil,

That Giraldo guy you mentioned in -.1 has been saying that he's not going 
anywhere.  He's happy at Monmouth and sees no reason to move on.

I'm local to Monmouth College so I've heard a lot about this.  The Monmouth team
is young and has struggled this year but they expect to improve greatly as the
players mature.  However, they'll never be in the spotlight like St. Johns is...
so you never know!

Dave

    Big game tonight.  UCONN at PC.....I had tickets for this one and
    had to give them back.  Both teams NEED this win, PC a bit more than
    the Huskies since their conference record sips.  I don't think
    this one is even going to be close UCONN 82 PC 70.
    
    Huskies have been playing well the last few weeks and if not for a 
    total UNC-like choke job would have beaten the HALL Saturday.  They
    went from up 5 with 5 minutes to go to down 14 with 1 left.  
    
    Jimbo

that easy enough to understand. Calhoun is wasting talent the same way
Dean has been squandering it for years....

    Re: -2 ..... Yeah, and the Redmen needed UConn to take that game, but
    the Hall's spurt did the Huskies in just as the Hall's spurt did the
    Redmen in two weeks ago.
    
    However, on a more pleasant note, the Redmen swept the O'men last night,
    90-70 in the Garden.  A thoroughly enjoyable evening, to say the
    least.  Shawnelle Scott showed he has gotten over his sprained ankle,
    with a 20 pt/10 rebound effort.  David Cain (16 points/11 assists),
    Sergio Lyuk off the bench with 14 (a few 3's), Derek Brown, Lamont
    Middleton (another consistent, double figure effort),  Carl Beckett,
    Mitchell Foster and Charles Minlend, all with nice efforts off the 
    bench, all contributed to the Redmen rout.
    
    Redmen are now 17-8 overall and 12-5 in the BE.  I never thought I would
    be saying this, but the SHU/SJU game on Saturday at the Meadowlands is
    for 1st place.  It wouldn't hurt for BC to win at SHU Wednesday, but I
    must admit that SHU is clearly the class of the BE this year.
    
    Redmen Phil
    
                                                               

>    However, on a more pleasant note, the Redmen swept the O'men last night,

I want St. John's in the BE tourney.


from a Syracuse fan, whose toughest season is almost behind him...

    BIG LOSS last night for the Huskie faithful!  Almost an identical
    game as the loss against Seton Hall.  From 5 minutes to go until 1
    minute to go UCONN is held scoreless!  You can't win if you go cold
    at the end of a tight game.  Score was 74-71 but PC was up 11
    with under a minute to go.  I guess the KOD still works 8*)
    
    Huskies have 1 game left @Hoyaland this weekend.  I see it a an
    absolute must win.  If they win they'll be 16-10 10-8 in the 
    conference.  No matter what they do in the BET that should get them in.
    If they lose to go 15-11, 9-9, they would have to make the finals
    of the BET to get the NCAA bid.  If they are on the bubble
    with teams like BC, Pitt, and PC I think UCONN will get the nod due
    to having 2 semi-marquee players in Burrell and Donyell, along with
    their decent showing the last 3 years.
    
    Jimbo
    
    Mikey you have no leg to stand on with the Hoyas in your corner.  If
    their not playing the worst hoop in the league, I don't know who is!

The Parade All-America Teams were announced this past weekend, and
wasn't it "special" to see Charles Gelatt (6'8" C, Binghamton, NY)
on the 4th team ?

He's headed to Syracuse next fall.

I don't think you can say Pitt, UConn, PC, or BC need "X" number
of wins (including BE Tourney) to get into the NCAA Tournament.
With all of the variables considered, it's purely speculation.

Of the 4, I think PC is in the worst position (despite their win
last night vs. UConn).  They have some weak losses in the earlier
part of their schedule.  I'm sure they need to win @BC Sat night,
and get a 1st-round win in the BE Tourney, but would they need
to get to the Championship round ?

The NCAA considers many things, one being Sagarin's ratings.
UConn looks good here, but BC, PC and Pitt don't.

	Seton Hall	#12
	St. John's	#22
	Syracuse	#32
	UConn		#36
	BC		#45
	PC		#49
	Pitt		#50
	G'town		#80
	Vill		#108
	Miami		#109

    UConn a guaranteed Big Dance participant with 16 W's??  I hardly think
    so, not with the BigEast being the sixth or seventh "best" conference
    in the USA, depending on whose ratings you consider.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    UConn a guaranteed Big Dance participant with 16 W's??  I hardly think
>    so, not with the BigEast being the sixth or seventh "best" conference
>    in the USA, depending on whose ratings you consider.
    
UConn's is playing for the NIT at this point.  Burrell has a career night
last night.  Only problem is the rest of the team forgot to show up....

There's always nexted year....

'Saw

    Chris, if UCONN wins at Georgetown and ends up 10-8 in conference
    play they will get a bid.  I don't think the # of wins is going
    to matter as much as conference record.  You know as well as
    I do that they'll take a 16-10 UCONN over a 19-7 East Idaho St.
    Hopefully, they'll win a few in the BET or just win the whole
    shootin match and not worry about getting a bid.  
    
    BTW.  Just stay over in your ACC note and defend that #1 ranking! 
    Since they have to ship Seton Hall out of the East, and if UNC
    gets the #1 seed in the east will DUKE stay in the east?
    
    Jimbo

    No way are they gonna put Duke and UNC in the same region.  No way. 
    Duke can stay in the East only by winning the ACC Tournament, IMO, and
    even then they might not git it.  [Course, all this discounts the fact
    that Dook has their AD on the selection committee and invariably gets
    *terrific* draws in the tourney.  :^(]
    
    And I steel think that 16 W's for UConn in no way, shape, or form
    guarantees an bid.  At best they can hope for few upsets in conference
    tournaments to open up their shot a bit.  I personally wouldn't invite
    'em unless they beat Gougetown and win at least 1 BigLeastTournament
    game.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    IMO, the loser of the PC-BC game Saturday goes to the NIT, unless
    they win the BE tourney.  The winner of that game must win at least
    one BE tourney game to get in.  If UConn beats Gougetown and wins one
    tourney game, they're in.  Pitt has to hope UConn gets beat by
    the Hoyas for any chance.  No more than 4 teams will get in from the 
    BE, with an outside chance only 3 will go.
    
    On another topic, can the Monmouth fan fill me in on how the kid Ryan
    from Andover is doing for Monmouth?
    
    NAZZ

    I agree (cringe) with ACC.  Duke and NC get split up, just like Indiana
    and Michigan would be...
    

My opinion is that Duke is going West if Arizona finish up strong and
makes the #1 seed. Obviously being the weakest #1 they'll give Duke
as easy a ride as possible in attemp to repeat. 

Big East I feel is going to need one of the lower teams to win the tourney
in order to send 4 teams to the Dance. SJU and the Hall should be locks and
whoever finishes the strongest between the PC/Pitt/UConn/BC gets the 3 spot.
Given the situation it probably means SU who's on probation will win the
tourney and cost someone a berth....

You guys keep knockin' em as dumb etc, but I have hard time seeing a team
as talent as Michigan and as deep not making the finals again. 

mike    

>    IMO, the loser of the PC-BC game Saturday goes to the NIT, unless
>    they win the BE tourney.  The winner of that game must win at least
>    one BE tourney game to get in.  If UConn beats Gougetown and wins one
>    tourney game, they're in.  Pitt has to hope UConn gets beat by
>    the Hoyas for any chance.

I agree with everything you've said except that Pitt needs some help from
Georgetown.  While Pitt has been sliding a little lately, they have two
very impressive wins outside the conference (UCLA, Illinois).  Smoking
Illinois on their homecourt, on national TV, is going to carry A LOT
OF WEIGHT.  I think if Pitt gets one more win (either @ Syracuse on Sat,
or in the 1st round of the BET), they're in.

Contrary to what Chris is saying, I think the BE is going to get 4 teams
in the NCAA tourney.  It isn't the 6th or 7th conference in the country.
And a winning record in the conference is enough justification.

1	SH		13-4
2	SJU		12-5
	BC		9-8
	Pitt		9-8
	SU		9-8
	UConn		9-8
7	PC		8-9
8	G'town		7-10
9	Miami		6-11
10	Vill		3-14

    Redmen got blown away by SHU yesterday, and as a result, got a more
    difficult seeding in the BET.  It now looks like they'll have to play
    and beat BC on Friday instead of PC (who, by the way, is hot right
    now).
    
    SHU gets the winner of gtwon/Miami, while SU gets Pitt and UConn gets
    PC.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

If only Georgetown could play UConn every night...sigh 
Can't ever recall the Hoyas having to play on thursday
nite. What an insult. I hope JT's loosing sleep, cause
I am. The only way it could get worst would be to loose
to SU in the finals.....

mike

>             -< as predicted Seton Hall dominated the conference >-

Speaking of predictions Mike, didn't you predict that Syracuse would
be playing Thursday night ???  That one came back to haunt you, didn't
it ?  :^)


>The only way it could get worst would be to loose to SU in the finals.....

C'mon Mike, the Horrors would take great pride losing to anyone in the
finals this year !

'93 BET (@MSG):

10  Vill
7   BC

	?
	2  SJU

	6  Pitt
	3  SU

9   Miami
8   G'town						
	
	?
	1  SH

	5  PC
	4  UConn


A statistical look at previous BET results:

	      # of	# of Champ	Overall		Thurs	1st-round-
School       Titles	Appearances	Record		Games	and-out
------	     ------	-----------	------		------	-------
Georgetown      6    	     8		25-7		0-0	   2
Syracuse	3   	     9		22-10		0-0	   2
St. John's	2   	     3		12-11		0-1	   6
UConn		1   	     1		4-12		1-2	  10
SH		1   	     1		8-12		2-2	   7
Villanova	0   	     3		12-12		1-0	   3
BC		0   	     1		6-13		3-2	   9
Providence	0   	     0		5-13		2-3	   8
Pittsburgh	0   	     0		4-10		1-0	   6
Miami		0   	     0		1-1		1-0	   0

The Syracuse-G'town dominance of this tournament is clear.  They're
2 of only 3 schools with winning records in tournament play.  They
have 9 of the 13 titles, and have 17 of the possible 26 title-game
appearances.  They've met 5 times in the championship game, with G'town
dominating at 4-1 (G'town holds a 5-4 edge over SU in overall BET play).

1	SH		14-4
2	SJU		12-6
3	SU		10-8
4	UConn		9-9
5	PC		9-9
6	Pitt		9-9
7	BC		9-9
8	G'town		8-10
9	Miami		7-11
10	Vill		3-15

and someday, maybe someday that prediction will come true Joe....

;^)

I do agree it would be a nice run for them to make it to the BET final but
if that miracle happens they dam well better win it or atleast loose to a
good team like Seton Hall....

:^)

mike

    
    
        Keep the faith Mike.
    
             Beat Miami (easy)
             Beat SH (toughest Game)
             Beat SU
             Beat SJ
        Go to the Big Dance for the 15th year straight. :-)
    
            I know I'm Praying
    
    Chappy

>        Keep the faith Mike.
>             Beat Miami (easy)
>             Beat SH (toughest Game)

Not out of the realm of possibility.  As my note (.319) says, as much as
we all say "this tournament is anyone's" each year, that's proven to be
false.  G'town and SU consistently know how to advance.  I mean, St. John's
(at one game over .500) is the only other school to have a winning record
in 13 yrs of BE Tournament play.

Now, as I say this, I'll admit that I'm not confident at all that Syracuse
will beat Pittsburgh.  They just played Sat, and SU has already beaten them
twice.  I know Evans stinks, and Pitt has a horrible record in BET play, but
I also remember Evan's Navy team knocking SU out of the NCAA's on the Carrier
Dome floor.

    After a day or mourning I'm back!
    
    I'm so disgusted with UCONN's last five minutes of play in the last 3
    games.  They were in and could have won each game, but when it came to
    crunch time they diappeared.  They did not have a basket in the last
    8 minutes against the Hoyas Sunday.
    
    NCAA hopes are fading fast.  I would think they would have to make
    tHe finals of the BET to get in.  That would mean beating PC
    and Seton Hall.  Beating the Hall on national TV the day before
    the selections could do it.  
    
    I think it will be Hall, St Johns, Pitt, and possibly the UCONN/PC
    winner going to the NCAA's.  They might just take 3.  I did a mock
    tourney draw and came up with 70 teams who should make it.  6 of them
    will be battling in the NIT
    
    Jimbo - Not looking forward to UCONN-HOYAS in the NIT final
    

Is that the Big East Conference sitting at #4 in Jeff Sagarin's conference
ratings ?  Not bad, for a conference in the midst of a down year.

Speaking of the ratings, here's where the BE teams currently sit:

	Seton Hall		11
	St. John's		27
	Syracuse		29
	Providence		37
	Pitt			50
	UConn			51
	BC			55
	G'town			73
	Miami			107
	Vill			116

If Providence can beat UConn Friday, they should be in.  UConn has put them-
selves in a position of having to win 2 (I think).  Pitt may cry about having
to play NCAA-tournament-suspended Syracuse, but given their sorry play of late,
they're fortunate to have the opportunity to play the #29 team in the country
in the 1st round of the BET.

Pitt's, UConn's and BC's NCAA hopes get dimmer with each upset winner in
a weaker conference's tournament.  So far, 6 of 12 regular season champions
have not won their tournaments.  Since most of these conferences usually
send only one team to the NCAA tournament (ie: their automatic bid), the
upset winner forces the NCAA to have to look closer at the possibility
of that conference getting 2 bids.  For example, Western Kentucky won
the Sun Belt, beating New Orleans.  New Orleans is #21 in the Sagarin
ratings, and deserves a bid.  Western Kentucky could hurt a team like
Pittsburgh.

 For the good of the conference SU should just rollover and play dead for
 Pitt, dontcha think Joe?

 ;^)

 mike

    I think Syracuse will do just that!  Now only if Providence would
    do the same, and then Seton Hall and then......
    
    Jimbo

> For the good of the conference SU should just rollover and play dead for
> Pitt, dontcha think Joe?

An argument can be made for this.  But I don't think that's going to
happen.  This is the SU team's only chance for something meaningful
in this difficult season.  And don't think Boeheim's going to forget
the reports from some HS recruits that other BE schools were trying
to play SU's troubles into their recruiting advantage.  National TV
exposure in the semis and championship game can help Boeheim's
recruiting for next year too.

I want another shot at St. John's !!

re: .329

Some people just can't handle 20 point drubbings  :-)

The Crazy Met

>Some people just can't handle 20 point drubbings  :-)

Perhaps we'll get to see how you handle one after this weekend ??

...many :^)

re: .331

Did I just sense a p-name bet being offered??

The Crazy Met

B.C. got a big break missing Conn/Pitt, SHU.

Assuming they beat V'nova at least they have a chance with
SJU, and even SU-Pitt winner.  Prefer Pitt there.
    
    Thurs game may warm them up for rest of tourney.
    
    $35 for a ticket?????  Mindbending.

I'd just as soon see them in NIT anyway.  At about $10 a pop.
    

bill
    

    Anybody going to the Turney?
    
    Rick
    

    
    
    G'Town 67 Miami 40..
    
         Peaking at the right time. :-)
    
           Bring on the Hall. There going down.....
    
    Chappy

    BC bopped Villy... 70-66? It was a 4 point win...
    
    REK

There's alway hope Chappy but Seton Hall has been peaking also. Georgetown
probably has the best shot of knockin them off especially if Spencer contributes.
Should be Seton HALL'S tournement in a coaster simular to the Hoyas in 89...

 mike

    
    
    
           Is the Game at 2:30 today?
    
    Thanks Chappy

1992-93 BE Award Winners:

	PoY	Terry Dehere, SH

	Rookie:	Othella Harrington, GT

	Defensive Player:	Jerry Walker, SH

	Coach:	Brian Mahoney, SJU

	First Team:	Dehere, SH
			Moten, SU
			Curley, BC
			Marshall, UConn
			Cain, SJU

	2nd team:	Karnishovas, SH
			Scott, SJU
			Smith, PC
			Eisley, BC
			McCullough, Pitt

	3rd team:	Popa, Miami
			Middleton, SJU
			Walker, SH
			Autry, SU
			Burrell, UConn

	All-Rookie:	Harrington, GT
			Wallace, SU
			Edwards, Miami
			Kittles, Vill
			Brown, PC

>Georgetown probably has the best shot of knockin them off
>Should be Seton HALL'S tournement in a coaster simular to the Hoyas in 89...

Hey, c'mon mike, let's at least acknowledge SU's presence in this
tournament.  They've owned Seton Hall (forever)...except for some
recent Pirate wins at the Meadowlands.  In BET play, The Hall should
have beaten them a couple of times (both semifinal games), but spit
the bit both times. Very little goes right for Seton Hall when they play
SU.

Of course, SU has to get past Pitt and SJU/BC 1st.

BTW, BE Briefs reports in its latest issue that SJU recruit Roshown
McLeod (Jersey City St. Anthony) told a NJ TV station that he was
told by both Wake Forest and Fla St. that if he came to their school
he could "have anything he wants".  When the reporter asked him to
define 'anything', McLeod said, "I guess it would mean if I wanted a
car, I could get a car...or if I wanted to live here or do this,
or a certain amount of money, I guess that's what they were trying
to say."

    Oh no!  Trouble in Huskie land.  PC 36 UCONN 23 at the half.  UCONN
    came out cold for the first 10 minutes to go down 19-7.  They
    shot 1 for 12 or something........
    
    I'm hoping for a BIG second half!!!
    
    Jimbo

re .342 Title:  SU won't get by Pitt though Joe....

	Yeah, What he said!

	Billl

Providence beat UConn, 73-55.  They out-played them the whole 40
minutes.  PC was more aggressive, taking it to the hole constantly,
and beating the hell out of them on the boards.  They looked REAL
good, and are definitely in the NCAA tournament after this very
impressive performance.

I never thought they'd be at this point when I saw them in January.
Give Barnes a lot of credit for changing the player rotation and
finding a winning combination.

Calhoun says UConn doesn't deserve an NCAA bid.  It's up to BC and
Pitt to get another win for the BE to get that 4th school in the
tournament.

>Calhoun says UConn doesn't deserve an NCAA bid.  It's up to BC and
>Pitt to get another win for the BE to get that 4th school in the
>tournament.

I heard Calhoun on the news last night saying that the world wouldn't
end if they didn't get the bid (although this impending snow storm might
make it sound that way).

He said the program will go on, and that they'll just work all the harder....


'Saw

    Seton Hall beat Georgetown 83-69. 
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    
           DUUUUUUUUUUUUUPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEE
    
          I can't belive how bad them refs were.... :-).
    
                         Who do I sound like?
    
    Chap...

Revenge IS sweet !

    I didn't see tha game but it sounded like Syracuse was in control
    most of the way. Here is hoping Seton Hall wins the game n Sunday.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Seton Hall beats Syracuse 103-70 to win the BE tournament.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    re .344
    
    Ahhh nevermind.
    
    Billl

    
    Good, more at large bids to pass around to other BE teams :^)
    
    Go PC!!!!
    

    Even tho' I like da Hall, would have been ironic if the Orange
    had taken the BigEast champeenship, on NCAA probation and all
    that rot. Not that we neded clarification, but as AC/DC says,
    "Money talks.".  What a joke.
    
    JMHO
    MikeL
    

    
    PC got ROOKED!!!!
    
    Only thing I can figure is
    
      1) They didn't want 2 teams from the smallest state.
      2) The NCAA has decided to reinforce the Atlantic 10 as a new power
      3) They didn't want the darlings getting too much competition on
         their way to the FF and PC would be a disrupting latecomer.
    
    I was bummin' twice, once for that, and then for the total boring
    lineup I get to go see in Syracuse next weekend!  Well, except for
    UMass, but it won't be like when they played the 'Cuse last year.
    
    Oh Well, Go HC, URI, and UMass!!!!!!!!
    
    - Sean
    
    P.S. Hope the Big East comes back with a vengeance next year and shows 'em
         all.

    PC got rooked, what about UNLV. Also, wasn't there a top 20 team that
    did not get in? Basically there were too many real upsets in the
    Conference tournaments; this left a lot of the "buble" teams out of the
    tourney. Should be a heck of an NIT!
    
    The Crazy Met
    

 PC's out of conference schedule did them in. Sure they beat 'Zona but
 how good is "zona anyways? 

 UNLV is a payback for the Tark years....

 Nice game yesterday by the Hall.....

 Mike

�    PC got rooked, what about UNLV. 
    
    Is UNLV still on probation?
    
�Basically there were too many real upsets in the
�    Conference tournaments; this left a lot of the "buble" teams out of the
�    tourney. 
    
    Another think that puts "bubble" teams out is the automatic bids to the
    conference championships, some of whom are outside of the top 100.

    A disappointing weekend, to say the least, for the Redmen.
    
    After a solid effort in the 2nd half Friday evening vs. BC, they
    sleepwalked Saturday vs. SU.  They had trouble containing Moten, Autry
    (who had been horrible vs. SJU the first 2 games this year), Hopkins
    and Sekunda.  
    
    BTW, MacRae is a jerk.  No particular reason, but I'm glad to see him
    gone from the BE.
     
    I thought it was interesting that not once during the second half, CBS
    did not try to get the story on why Middleton did not play from the 13
    minute mark of the first half.  As it turned out, he had a hip pointer
    (although, in reviewing the tape, he looked like he was moving well in
    the 1st half).  Poor, at best.
    
    However, I was extremely happy to see SHU romp over SU yesterday.  
    
    SJU got seeded higher (#5) than I expected in the East, going down to NC 
    to play Texas Tech on Thursday.  If they get by TT, they would probably
    meet Arkansas Saturday.
    
    Redmen Phil
    
    

    re. .355
    
    	I agree.  My dark horse and they're not even in it.  I hate to see
    NCAA politics leave out a team with so much potential, on what? the
    basis of a slow start.  Does losing to SJU at HOME => NIT??
    
    	Back in c81,82 Bradley cleaned the NIT and fans were left with
    question - would they have won the big show?
    
    > .3
    
    	I thought the same way - what if they knock of a Michigan or
    Arizona (GW, Temple routes).
    

Seton Hall played a terrific game...nothing Syracuse could do to stop
them.  They had the best team (by far) in the Big East, and should have
won it.  I'll be rooting for them in the NCAA tournament, as they are
our only chance for a Final Four appearance.  The tournament committee
game them a tough road, potentially having to beat Fla St. and Kentucky.


The Providence exclusion is a crime of criminal proportions.  They
were awesome the last month of the year.  If you saw them (especially
their mauling of UConn last Friday), you were totally impressed with
their physical dominance of some teams.  No way they shouldn't be in
this tournament...especially if Pitt gets in !


Hey Leary, which tournament is ND playing in ?

Phil, re: Middleton, are you sure it was his hip that kept him out
Sat ?  I figured that the flow of the game (being dictated by SU)
necessitated his removal.  They needed shooters and people who could
come up with some steals out there.  It wasn't that bump-and-grind,
banging type of game which he does well in.

St. John's had a good year.  You had be a little nervous when you
saw that they'd meet SU for the 3rd time, having beaten them twice
already.

A statistical look at BET results:

	      # of	# of Champ	Overall		Thurs	1st-round-
School       Titles	Appearances	Record		Games	and-out
------	     ------	-----------	------		------	-------
Georgetown      6    	     8		26-8		1-0	   2
Syracuse	3   	     10		24-11		0-0	   2
St. John's	2   	     3		13-12		0-1	   6
SH		2   	     2		11-12		2-2	   7
UConn		1   	     1		4-13		1-2	  11
Villanova	0   	     3		12-13		1-1	   4
BC		0   	     1		7-14		4-2	   9
Providence	0   	     0		6-14		2-3	   8
Pittsburgh	0   	     0		4-11		1-0	   7
Miami		0   	     0		1-2		1-1	   1

    Joe, you're right about having to face a team for the 3rd time after
    having swept them.  It's not a good situation to be in, and what
    happened was not unexpected.  In all fairness to SU, they played a
    fine game, hitting key shots the few times SJU attempted to get back in
    the game.  They thoroughly beat SJU. 
    
    Re: Middleton - It definitely had to be a hip pointer problem, for the
    following reasons: he's still only probable for Thursday afternoon's
    game vs. Texas Tech (by the way, a Friday evening/Sunday slot would
    have been best for SJU so that he would get more recuperation time); if
    Mahoney was looking for shooters, his pick would not have been Minlend,
    since he's a non-entity from the outside, and he is still a freshman,
    albeit I believe he's going to be a good one and finally, Middleton is
    a large part of the heart and soul of this team.....he had to be hurting
    or I'm sure he would have been in there.
    
    Re: Thursday vs. Texas Tech - this should be interesting; they seem to 
    have two (2) key players, a 6'8" Sr. F and a So. G who both had great
    games vs. Houston to help win the SWC title.
    
    Redmen Phil 
    
    P.S. - Has anyone seen or heard from Kevin Farley ??
    

    Yabbut is Redmen Phil a GREAT straight man or what?  ;^)
    
    I'm bacck!
    
    First, I wish I knew the right words to use to express our (Carol and
    I) deepest and sincerest feelings of thanks for everything all you have
    done to help us through this tragedy.  The outpouring of love, prayers,
    calls and just being with us really, really helped and means so much to
    us.  Greg's death created a tremendous void in our lives but everyone's
    kinds words and friendships we didn't know we had have helped us deal
    with this better.  We'll be OK.
    
    Now, down to bizness!
    
    It took 3 days to catch up on the 1700+ unseens you loonies put in here
    the lasted 3 weeks.  'special "Thanks" to Needle for making the shadow
    conference.  Without it, I's probably need 3 more weeks to catch up
    (Hint, c'mon Saw, get those folks off their butts and have the new
    links put in NOW!!!!!~)
    
    Kinda interesting to fantasize about the possibilities of SJU serving
    Snuffy his annual chicken bone huh?  Betcha ACC_Chris is beginning to
    have sweaty nights worrying about which of us will overachieve so much
    that UNC gets a good ol fashioned butt kicking!  I'm hoping that SJU
    presents the "piece de resistance"!  Go Redmen!!!
    
    I'm tickled silly with how well SJU did this season.  Great job fellas.
    The B-E tourney was slightly dissapointing but ya gotta remember, SJU
    traditionally and consistently gets booted early most often in the 1st
    round so getting to the semi-finals was pretty good!
    
    I thought I saw that SJU is favored against Texas Tech by a few points,
    mebbe 2 but it could be more.  Rest assured that my radio will be
    turned on Thursday at noon.  FYI, GE makes a radio that picks up AM/FM
    and TeeVee sound.  It sells for about $40.00 so if ya wanna hear what
    CBS is broadcasting while yer in the office, this is one way to go.
    
    snorting schlepps!
    
    I remain,
    planning to attend the get together too!
    Kev
    

     Nice to see your replies back in here :-)

    
    Yabbut danka!
    
    I was totally amazed that when I read da Woostah paper a couple o' days
    ago about the AP AA team, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and Hororable mentions.
    
    Doncha know that, as I 'member, there is only ONE (1), Uno, single BE
    player in the HM catagory!!!!!!!  This is priceless, his name is
    
    
    
    
    
    
    	Bill Curley !!!!!!!! (??????????)
    
    
    C'mon gimme a break, no way!
    At least they could have done was put SJU's David Cain there.  He had a
    incredible season.  Middleton too while I'm at it!
    
    I remain,
    seething Redmen RED!
    Kev
    

    Kev, there's no need for me to jump on this.  It's an established fact
    (documented in SI, among other places) that BigEast just ain't got the
    talent level to compete with the B10/ACC.  This, of course, comes as no
    shock to me, since I've been documenting their recruiting failures for
    years now.  I may not be one of those recruiting "nuts" Waugamain
    thinks I aim, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that
    recruiting subpar HS kids is gonna lead to subpar collegiate kids.
    
    Not even Dean can turn water into wine.
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re. 363
    That's an interesting chart. Perhaps the most significant aspect to
    the Hall victory over the Orange Sunday was it's the first time since
    the Big East was formed that Seton Hall beat the Orange on a neutral
    court. Their record is something like 3-25 . 
    
    I think they lost to syracuse something like 3 times in 4 years in the
    Big East semis-all the sam e type of agonizing games where Douglas or
    Coleman takes it away at the end.
    
    But the Pirates ended the futility with vengenance didn't they?
    
    Let's hope they carry it over to the tourney. I hope Pitt is bounced
    quickly. Hoping the Redmen get a chance to face Smiff at the
    Meadowlands.
    
    Too bad the Redmen don't have a good record against the ACC in recent
    years in the tourney.
    
    
    
    

    Dave,
    
    Which tourney?  In the BE-ACC challenge lasted year, SJU played the
    NCAA Champs, Duke and lost by 10.  A year earlier, they played the
    KKKenny Anderson led squad of Goergia Tech and beat them 73-72 (OT).
    
    Lasted year's NCAA loss in the 1st round was to Tulane by 4 (what
    conference they in anyway?;*)
    
    A year earlier (90-91) they lost to the eventual NCAA champion, Duke
    78-61 (in the Final 4 if memory serves me correctly).
    
    
    hth
    
    I remain,
    sounding like the 'ninj or what?
    ;^)
    Kev
    

    Kev:
    
    In 1990-91 Duke beat the Redmen in the regional finals.
    At least one of the other Sealy teams was eliminated by Duke(1990?).
    
    The Big East ACC challenge is irrelevant compared to the NCAA's. Some
    teams just play better earlier in the season.
    
    I know that the final four team in 1985 beat NCST in the regional
    finals and in 1979 they beat Duke in Greensboro-the same night that
    Penn shocked Smiff's boys.

    
    	I couldn't find a box score on the Seton Hall game yesterday.
    How many points did Terry Dehere have?
    
    
    
    s

Dehere had 19 last night....

Dean may not be able to turn water into wine but he sure can turn wine into piss.

how about Lute Olson he's in the selective company of JT, Boehiem, Frider and
Dale Brown as coaches who can make Dean Smith look good. 

Speak of Dale and the class act that he is, it's reported that he was quoted
after last nights game as saying Cal has a snowball's chance in hell against
Duke tomorrow. Way to go Dale take that loss like a man!!!!!!!

 BE undefeated in the NIT, will UCONN be the first to gag???

 mike

    Like UCLA and the PAC-10 in the 60's, it appears to me as though Seton
    Hall is going to single-handedly earn the BigLeast some much-needed
    respect.  They're Final4 bound folks, and could win the whole thang.
    
    Why?  They're healthy, they're peaking, they're talented, they're
    well-coached, they play terrific defense, and they played a tough
    non-conference schedule to git 'em preped.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    Why?  They're healthy, they're peaking, they're talented, they're
>    well-coached, they play terrific defense, and they played a tough
>    non-conference schedule to git 'em preped.

Now I'm confused. I thought "peaking" and "well-coached" were mutually
exclusive. We've all heard about how bad the end of season peak is and
that it's not something that should be pursued.

I agree with all of the above about Seton Hall and also like their
chances. I'll be there at the regional to see 'em.

TTom

    re .374
    
        <<< Note 23.374 by RHETT::KNORR "DECwindows Support, US/CSC" >>>
                            -< Bye-Bye Kaintucky. >-

    Like UCLA and the PAC-10 in the 60's, it appears to me as though Seton
    Hall is going to single-handedly earn the BigLeast some much-needed
    respect.  They're Final4 bound folks, and could win the whole thang.
    
    *******************
    
    So Chris, you willing to place a little P-Name bet on this?  Kentucky's
    pressure defense will make Seton Hall fold like the proverbial house of
    card's!!!
    
     - Bob

    Bob, I even have a p_name all chosen for ACC Chris if he accepts.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    A most enjoyable season ended yesterday at the hands of Arkansas, as
    the Redmen let a 10 point second half lead get away. 
    
    I was disappointed in their play at the end, seemingly giving up
    without fouling the last 30 seconds when down only 6.
    
    I'll have more to say in a few.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    Some thoughts from a very disapointed Joisey Seton Hall fan:
    
    Strange game from Terry Dehere. 30 points but bricksville from 3 point
    range and several crucial turnovers  especially getting picked on the 
    dribble in the last 2 minutes.
    
    The team unraveled in the end. WK's unrelenting pressure was just too
    much in the end. Seton Hall's guards were just not up to it. With 
    "only" Walker and Dehere leaving next year should be successful if 
    Luther Wright improves. 
    
    I just wonder how much the Big East's abysmal tournament showing
    says about the conference's strength. Pitt was embarrassing. The
    Atlantic 10 placed two teams in the sweet 16.

 You got to hand it to Chris, He was right on with that KOD. Man he's
 startin to rival the Dinz...

 Hats off to Western K, they wanted it more and proved it. Unfortunately
 PJ put to much stock into defending the conference and pushing Dehere
 for the lottery and his boy came up badly lacking in motivation. No
 excuse for the sloppy boardword work and passing....

 SJU unfortunately just got gassed. I think Mahoney knew his guys had
 nothing left for an OT and conceeded instead of fouling and prolonging
 the misery. Too bad...

 mike

>    Strange game from Terry Dehere. 30 points but bricksville from 3 point
>    range and several crucial turnovers  especially getting picked on the 
>    dribble in the last 2 minutes.

This is going to sound strange (given the guy's the all-time BE scorer),
but there are parts of Dehere's game I don't like.  1st and foremost, he's
a scorer, and can sometimes look like he's more concerned with getting
his shot than playing with his teammates.  He's also shown that when
things aren't going right, he "sort of" disappears.

I think he'll be a good NBA player, but I'm not sure he'll be an
All-Star.


>    With "only" Walker and Dehere leaving next year should be successful if 
>    Luther Wright improves. 

Wright and Karnishovas ARE THE TEAM next year, and because of that, I think
Seton Hall is much easier to defend.  Karnishovas benefited from Dehere's
presence, but I want to see what he does now that he's the primary offensive
option.  And Wright will be the main focus of defenses inside.  Walker
carried that load the last two seasons.  Two significant adjustments.

Seton Hall didn't sign a big-time recruit last year, and it appears the
same will happen this year.  They should be a #4-6 team in the BE next
year.

    Newsday reports that immediately after the Arkansas loss, a fan
    (supposedly an SJU fan) yelled at Brian Mahoney - "So when is Felipe
    signing?"  - a reference to NYC Jr. HS AA 6'5" Swingman Felipe Lopez. 
    Lopez is the Number 1 rated HS Jr. in the U.S..  SJU is trying to sign
    him ASAP along with 6'11" Jr. C Zendon Hamilton (out of LI, who probably
    is headed to LI Lutheran (Private) HS next school year).  I've heard
    they're friends, and would be interested in going to college together
    (although every time I see that, it never seems to happen (i.e., note
    Kidd and Rhodes)).
    
    Isn't it interesting how the sting of a bitter loss can be removed by
    talking about those future, potential recruits.
    
    Redmen Phil
                     

Tough loss, no doubt, but when you look at where everyone expected SJU
to finish and the predictions for their year, you have to be very pleased
too.

Hell, at least they didn't gag on a dog bone like my Huskies did the last
five games o' the year.....8^)


'Saw

>    Newsday reports that immediately after the Arkansas loss, a fan
>    (supposedly an SJU fan) yelled at Brian Mahoney - "So when is Felipe
>    signing?"  - a reference to NYC Jr. HS AA 6'5" Swingman Felipe Lopez. 
>    Lopez is the Number 1 rated HS Jr. in the U.S..  SJU is trying to sign
>    him ASAP along with 6'11" Jr. C Zendon Hamilton

I'm glad you brought up Lopez, I've been meaning to put something in here
re: the HS juniors.

Big East Briefs reports that Lopez, Hamilton and Adonal Foyle (Hamilton, NY,
but originally from the Caribbean) are 3 of the country's premier juniors.
Apparently the East is loaded with top junior prospects, so the Big East
must keep these kids home (and I don't mean the A-10).

Here are the East's TOP juniors:

	Carlos Cueto - 5'11" pg, Jersey City St. Anthony...heady, quick,
		fundamentally sound...good 3-pt shooter...BC, Mia, PC,
		Pitt, SH, Vir, Duke, NC St, WF, WI, NoWstrn

	Billy Dispaltro - 6'7" F, Morristown, NJ...fluid stroke, not that
		tough, potentially a big-time player...BC, PC, SH, Pitt,
		SU, Vill, WF, Vandy, Vir, ND

	Danny Forston - 6'8" PF, Pitt, PA...inside/back-to-the-basket-
		type player, needs to improve strength...great hands...
		PC, Pitt, Vill, Cin, WI, MI, Oh St, UNLV, Duques

	Adonal Foyle - 6'9" C, Hamilton, NY...tremendous physical and mental
		maturity...body of an NBA power forward...intimidating
		inside presence with superb rebounding and shot-blocking
		ability...every major school in the country is after him

	Zendon Hamilton - 6'11" C Floral Park, NY...one of the best big
		men in the country...lefty...active on the glass, runs
		the court well, soft hands, finishes around the hoop...
		needs to improve strength and shooting...most BE schools,
		Fla St, GT, Vir, NC, Duke, UCLA, MI, Ari, UNLV, SC St, Eliz City

	Chris Herren - 6'2" 2G, Fall River, MA...quick, good with both hands,
		finishes, great passer...needs to improve jumper...mostly
		BE and A-10, some other conferences

	Allen Iverson - 5'11" PG, Hampton, VA...spectacular athletic ability,
		may be most explosive guard in prep ranks, indefensible
		penetrator...score almost at will...best small guard since
		Kenny Anderson...most of the nation's top schools

	Pete Lisicky - 6'4" 2G, Whitehall, PA...similar in game and stature
		to Vandy's McCaffery...excellent student...BC, Mia, PC, SU,
		SH, Vill, UCLA, Vir, Stanford, Ind

	Felipe Lopez - 6'5" 2G, NY Rice...magnificent athlete who has
		Jordanesque rise...handles and passes like a pt guard,
		can shoot 3's...only BE schools on his list are SJU, SU,
		SH, others are NC, Fla St, GT, Oh St, Ind, UCLA, Ari, KS

	Norman Nolan - 6'7" F/C, Baltimore Dunbar...strong inside, power
		jumper, great hands, good rebounder, not a back-to-basket
		player...BE and ACC

	Shawn Smith - 5'9" PG, Phila Simon Gratz...improving in judgement,
		maturity, shooting...SJU, Temple, UCLA, WI, WF

	Alez Sanders - 6'7" PF, Mouth of Wilson, VA...power lefty...body
		of a Greek god...good baseline moves...SJU, WI, Minn

	Curtis Staples - 6'1" 2G, Frederick, MD...plays bigger than his
		size...excellent athlete, explodes to hoop, great shooter...
		Pitt, SJU, SH, Vill, UCLA, KS, Ken, Fla St, Vir, WF

    Its good to see SJU involved with 5 of the top Jrs. in the East. 
    Let's hope they get a couple.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    re .387
    
    So did Lopez take Kentucky off his list?
    
      - Bob

>    So did Lopez take Kentucky off his list?

Big East Briefs is pretty reliable (they have a "900" # to get up-to-the-
minute recruiting information !).  If they don't have Kentucky on this
kid's list, they most likely aren't.  I've found their info to be very
accurate in the past (eg: when Donyell Marshall was going to sign early
with SU and then changed his mind when the investigation news broke;
John Wallace leaning toward SU, despite concerns about possible penalties...
etc.).

After watching the scare UCLA put on Michigan I can only say I'm glad
Taver and O'Bannon went west....Those two, Moten, Autry and MaCrea
would have been down right scary....

mike

Luther Wright is entering the NBA draft and leaving Seton Hall.  His agent
says Wright would stay if he knew that he was going to play 35 minutes and
be the #1 option.

    ...and he credits Eric Montross as factoring into that decision. 
    Wright said they weren't any challenges left in the NCAA.

    I'm all for a player going pro to earn the big bucks and all, but the
    fact that Wright (presumably a college student - ha!) is talking thru
    an agent coupled with his NBA-style "play me or trade me" attitude is a
    tad hard to swallow.
    
    A far more interesting case to follow will be whether or not Eric
    Montross goes pro.  In typical Dean-fashion Eric is talking the party
    line of "We'll sit down and talk to the NBA scouts and evaluate the
    situation", but there are some interesting dynamics that come into play
    here, like:
    
    1. Eric doesn't need the money.  His dad is *loaded*;
    2. Eric is sick of getting banged around in college, much in the same
       manner as Shaquille O'Neal;
    3. Education is a non-issue.  He's on slate to graduate early anyhoo;
    4. Montross truly walks to the beat of a different drummer, as anyone
       who read the SI piece on the kid will testify to.
    5. Pro scouts have already guaranteed he's a lottery pick.  No need to
       even wonder about this one - it's a lock.  A done deal.
    
    Of all these, #4 is the most significant, and my gut tells me he's not
    overly anxious to go pro no matter how frustrated he may be at getting
    knocked silly each-and-every time he steps on the floor.
    
    - ACC Chris

Chris,

You forgot to mention how the SI article on Montross quoted Dean as
saying he only wanted Montross to learn two moves.  A baby hook and something
else.  Is this Dean's standard method of "developing" a big man?   Or will
Eric be one of those guys who needs to go to the pros to expand his game?
I think Montross would be taking a big risk to not go pro this year.   He's
not going to be rated any higher than he is right now.

    I'm disapointed that you didn't learn anything from the SI article
    Ross.  I would've hoped you'd_a seen yourself as one of the folks who
    wants to chistle away at Eric and turn him from the true 7-foot post
    player he is into a slick handling jump shooter.  (Don't feel too bad
    though.  Every coach in the ACC 'sept for Dean would absolutely *LUV*
    to see Montross develop more moves away from the basket, so they
    wouldn't have to deal with the 2 or 3 he's got that have just
    so-happened to prove unstoppable.
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>   Ross.  I would've hoped you'd_a seen yourself as one of the folks who
>   wants to chistle away at Eric and turn him from the true 7-foot post
>   player he is into a slick handling jump shooter.  

This is about the third time you've tried to claim that I think Montross 
should become a point guard-type player.   That's never been my contention.
If you think that there are only two moves possible from the low post, then
I suggest you need to look at players like Kevin McHale, Kareem, Ewing,
Robinson, Olaujawon, etc.   None of those players would be considered 
slick handling jump shooters, yet each has the ability to do more than
shoot a  baby hook (which Montross uses about once every three games) and
dunk the ball.   Ever seen Montross ball fake?  drop step?  I'm sure he'll
be attending Pete Newell's big man's camp after UNC and then we'll hear 
quotes like "I never realized how many different post move there were!"
from Eric.   

>(Don't feel too bad
>    though.  Every coach in the ACC 'sept for Dean would absolutely *LUV*
>    to see Montross develop more moves away from the basket, so they
>    wouldn't have to deal with the 2 or 3 he's got that have just
>    so-happened to prove unstoppable.

Unstoppable in your definition translates to  15 points a game I guess.
What will he be if he ever hits for 20 in a tournament game?
How come Montross is not the go-to guy late in the game when there's noone
even close to his size on the floor against Cinn.?   I think it's a telling
point that Montross is not the first option when the game is on the line.
That's because his offensive repetoire is so limited.

How can a guy be unstoppable if he only scores 5-8 baskets a game?   Solid,
yes.  Unstoppable, hardly.  Dean does a good job of keeping him under 20 points
a game.

    Montross will be the second coming of Joe Wolff when he dons on an NBA
    jersey.  While he may be considered "solid" and a good college player
    he will not be able to make it in the pros.  
    
    To back Doug, Montross has developed very few moves and can barely shoot 
    the ball three feet away from the basket.  In college he plays against
    players who are shorter and smaller then him and can therefore position
    himself that close to the basket, but in the pros....
    
    A UNC player that I think may be develop into a decent NBA player is
    Don Williams, that is if Dean leaves him alone.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

Objectively speaking:

Because of his size and unique appearance, I tend to focus on Montross when I
see UNC games.  I can honestly say that he is a very effective power/post up 
guy, but that if he goes into the draft this year, he will be an NBA "project".
He just isn't polished enough to not get eaten up by the raw talent AND 
experience guys like Hakeem, Ewing, etc.  He needs not only some more moves, 
but to learn position, get "finnesse" boards, etc.

Question is: Will Dean teach him that stuff?

=Bob=

    Bob, I agree that Montross is very effective but this is against guys
    shorter and smaller than him.  Could it be that you focus on him
    because he is so much bigger than his opponents and sticks out ?
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

John "D"

I am basically agreeing with you that Montross' success to date is largely
a product of  his size and strength.  I contend that he has NBA level power
right now, but it in the rest of his game in which he will be eaten alive
in the NBA.

=Bob=

    
    
         Get Montross out of the Big East topic. he's to much of a girly
     mon to ever play in the BE.
    
          On too the important stuff.
    
              The Hoyas after only scoring 14 pts in the 1st half last
    night poured on the D in the 2nd half as they waltzed past UAB to make
    it to the finals of the NIT.
    
                 They face Minnesota (beat Providence 76-70)Wednesday
    night 9:00 at MSG.
    
    Chappy

    re: Montross is only good cause he's big
    
    If that's true, how come I keep hearing that his progress over the last
    year is "off the charts"?  He's just as big now as he was as a
    freshman.
    
    To further the cause of hypocrisy and illogic though, Doug Ross says
    (outa both sides of his mouth) that:
    
    a) Montross has no moves
    b) Dean hasn't developed him
    
    What does a+b equal?  Why:
    
    c) Carolina should go to him more in clutch situations
    
    Go figure.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>   To further the cause of hypocrisy and illogic though, Doug Ross says
>   (outa both sides of his mouth) that:
>   
>   a) Montross has no moves
>   b) Dean hasn't developed him
>   
>   What does a+b equal?  Why:
>   
>   c) Carolina should go to him more in clutch situations

Wait a second.. You were the one who said Montross is unstoppable.  If 
that is the case, then how is it hypocrisy to ask why, then, does Dean
not go to him in the clutch?  I never said Dean SHOULD go to him.  I asked
why he doesn't if the guy is so good.    That's not hypocrisy. 

Is Montross the number one option in the clutch?   Is he number two?  This
weekend, he seemed to be number 4, after Williams, Lynch, Reese.   And this
was against a much smaller center.  Why?   

No hypocrisy here.  No illogic here.    My contention from day one is that
Dean has not done as much for Montross' development as a big man as other
coaches might have done.  He should be learning more than two moves.  He
should not be subbed for unless he's tired or in foul trouble.   He should
not be running around at the point on defense hounding guards.    He could
have been putting up the same numbers as a freshman as he is doing now.
It makes nice copy to turn Montross into some sort of project that Dean has
developed, but it just ain't true.   

    > but it just ain't true.
    
    Yes, it is true, and each and every NBA scout I've heard, combined with
    each and every TV analyst I've listened to, sez Eric's improvement from
    HS to now is "off the charts".  Question is, is DougRoss a better
    talent evaluator than, say, Jerry West?!
    
    I dunnot think so.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

ACC Chris,

How many times do you think Jerry West saw Montross play in H.S.?  How
many UNC games do you think West watches?   I would guess that the majority
of information the "experts" get comes second hand. 

Jerry West claims Glenn Robinson is the number one pick if he comes out.
Do you agree Chris?   If not, then who cares, you're opinion is not worthy
of consideration because you aren't an NBA GM.   Believe me, I can't think
of a single NBA GM who has not made disasterous evaluations of NBA talent
at one time or another... check out SI's ratings of the drafts of the 
1980's last week.  So how does their opinion count for more?    

I think anyone who has played, coached, and watched basketball for 20
years can probably make some sort of informed observations about a players
ability.    I don't see anything in Eric Montross' game to show that he can
play with NBA centers better than Greg Kite or Mark Eaton.   We'll only
find out sometime in the future who's right.

I think we can agree that Montross right now is somewhere between "stiff"
and "unstoppable".    He's probably better than I think he is and also
not as dominant as you believe.

> I think we can agree that Montross right now is somewhere between "stiff"
> and "unstoppable".    He's probably better than I think he is and also
> not as dominant as you believe.

Doug what could you be thinking?  Offering a compromise in ::SPORTS is against
the rules. Now be a man about it and apologize like I did yesterday for
using facts in an argument :-)

The Crazy Met

    Not so fast Ross.  You've been denegrating Montross for *years* now -
    even before he got to Carolina.  Now the kid has turned into a 2nd team
    AP All-American, First Team ACC, guaranteed lottery pick and I'm supposed
    to be thankful you're offering a compromise that he's somewhere between
    a "stiff" (you) and a force (me)?!  
    
    I dunnot think so.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

Hey Ack, do all supposed "forces" disappear from their team's offense after
getting a few of their shots swatted into the cheap seats? Sure looked like
Frankentross was scared stiff to put the ball up after those Cinncy boys
pinballed them shots out of there....

Let's face facts here, Dean retarded Montross's growth as a freshman by
making the kid ride pine and teaching the kid two moves. Now the kid is 
playing near his potential and Dean's supposed to get credit for that?

mike

USA Today reports that Rasheed Wallace is still undecided about which
school he will sign with this month, during the Spring signing period.
But the latest issue of Big East Briefs claims that statements from his
HS coach seem to indicate that he's leaning toward Villanova, with
Temple his 2nd choice.  Villanova is close to home, and they've already
signed his best friend, Alvin Williams (?).  Temple also offers the
'close to home' advantage (not to mention a very good, young team,
coached by one of the best).

It's hard for me to discount Georgetown and Thompson when it comes to
big men.  His track record shows he almost always gets them.

The Briefs reports that Wallace will make known his decision the first
day of the signing period (April 14).



Hey Chris, I see you mentioned the 'ugly' 45-41 G'town/Ala Birm game,
so what did you think of that pitifully low-scoring (mid-60s in reg)
NC-Cin game ?  Let me guess, "good defense"....  BTW, which game does
NC bow-out on ?  I say it's the final.  Their only hope is if Mich
upsets Kentucky.

 Hopefully the closeness of the Gt/Minny will convince Wallace that he's the
 missing piece to lead the Hoyas to the promised land....

 I think you're wrong Joe, Kansas has size, speed, a better backcourt and
 better coach, you also throw in the spittin' in the mississippi and I see
 them taking UNC out.....

 mike

    re: Rasheed Wallace
    
    My gut tells me UNC is outa the picture on this guy.  Da Poop Sheet
    quotes him as rooting for Kaintucky to win the whole thing.  Also
    mentioned him going to the same school as his buddy, who already signed
    with Nova.  
    
    All this could stem from his failure thus far to qualify.  UNC cannot
    admit him until he scores 700+ on his SAT's, which he has not yet done.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    
    
           I heard he wanted to win a couple Nat'l championships and he
    knows he won't get that with the Snuffmeister.
    
    Chappy

�    Of all these, #4 is the most significant, and my gut tells me he's not
�    overly anxious to go pro no matter how frustrated he may be at getting
�    knocked silly each-and-every time he steps on the floor.
    
    If he cain't take it in college, how is going to survive the NBA?

    > If he cain't take it in college, how is going [sic] to survive
    > the NBA?
    
    Ask Shaq, who reportedly left college for the pros for this very
    reason.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re: .420
    
    Forgive me for reporting what the man (and his college coach) said.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    > do you really think that that is why O'Neal left college
    
    I think it was a contributing factor, albiet a small one.  But when you
    factor in the fact that it's highly likely Montross is far less in need
    of hard currency than O'Neal, I'd say it could play a large factor in 
    Eric's decision.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    -1,
    GOOOOONG! Sound of alarm bell. Tommy, re-read yo' text. You
    have just made an impossible request. Lose 1 turn.
    
    
    MikeL
    

    
    
           Yo ACCACK
    
                  I know Shaquille O'neal and believe you me senator
      Eric Montross is no Shaquille O'Neal
    
    chappy

    
    The Shaq was not in any kind of desperate need for money when he left
    college.  The pounding he was taking and the risk that the pounding
    represented relative to his future earnings was very much a part of his
    decision.  After all, it was widely publicized for the longest time 
    that his parents badly wanted him to finish school, and it was 
    supposedly the treatment that he was getting in college hoops that 
    finally allowed him to convince his dad (a strict military type) to let
    him go pro.  I don't think the story was invented for media
    consumption, either...
    
    glenn
     

    Re: Great big men and how Smith "ruins" them
    
    Let's look at the top 5 centers in the NBA currently(by most standards)
    
    Ewing-Stomper developed
    Hakeem-Guy Lewis
    Brad Daugherty-Dean
    Shaq-Dale Dale Brown
    Robinson-Navy
    
    On the next tier you have two more Georgetowners Mutumbo and
    Mourning,Parish from Centenary,Bowie from Kentucky,Duckworth(?).
    
    So John thompson appears best at developing big men and Smith is in the
    second group. What can't miss big man has he ruined? J.R Reid ?
    Montross is no Shaq but judging on the careers of some other
    big men,his size alone guarantees him a 10 year career if he isn't
    injured.
    
    Surround Eric with the right complement of players and he may have a
    few rings before he is done.

    Dave, I believe it is rather difficult to measure how a coach
    "develops" a player.  A players's inherent talent can make a bad coach
    look good, and this is exactly the situation with Dean Smith. He has
    arguably had the best talent in the 80's (please refer to how many
    Tarheels are in the NBA) and yet has one ONE championship.
    
    Coach K has won two in a row and in the same period only two of the
    Blue Devils actually contribute to their NBA team (Dawkins and
    Laettner). 
    
    Which coach has UNDERACHIEVED and which coach has OVERACHIEVED ?
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.
    

    Quite a weekend for NC recruit Jerry Stackhouse. He'll be on every
    sports highlight show for his dunk where he jumped over another player.
    
    I think he was the MVP in the allstar game yesterday. Is McGinniss also
    going to UNC? Where is he from?

yeah, Stackhouse looked so good yesterday and in the dunk contest that
I'm sure we can expect at least 4 points per game and 8-12 minutes of
"quality time" next year on the Tar heels.  Dean will probably play him
at center in order to "develop" his ability.

    re. 430
    
    If Smith is so ruinous to a players' career why do the best keep coming
    to Chapel Hill?
    
    There's no way Stackhouse will not get quality minutes next year. Hey
    ,we're taling ACC in the Big East note.

     
  >  If Smith is so ruinous to a players' career why do the best keep coming
  >  to Chapel Hill?
   
     There are a lot of things that I did at 17-18 that in retrospect were
    stupid or at best shortsighted.  How about you ?
     
     I think the point is not ruining a career, but not allowing full
    development of a player's potential.  Most of these players would have
    made it into the NBA regardless of Smith.  Why do ex-UNC players seem
    to blossom in the NBA in the way they never did in their college
    careers ?
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.
     
  

    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11111
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    it's highly likely Montross is far less in need of hard currency

We're not talking about helping mom and dad with the grocery bill, or
getting them that new Chevy pickup truck, we're talking about cashing
in on your talent and becoming rich...this is a life-setting decision here:

	go in the draft, get drafted in the 1st round and make millions
	NOW, or stay in college and take the chance of blowing a knee
	and never getting those millions

>    If Smith is so ruinous to a players' career why do the best keep coming
>    to Chapel Hill?

Same reason kids keep going to Syracuse.

I don't have time to provide info on all teams (I will later), but for
you SU fans (are any others out there besides Joe Cotanch ?), here's what
BE Briefs reports regarding SU's recruiting efforts:

	"With NCAA sanctions taking a scholarship away from them in each
	 of the next two years, Boeheim apparently will hold on to the two
	 he currently has available.  SU realizes that next year's senior
	 class is loaded with talent and has gotten a head start recruiting
	 three of the finest prospects in New York State and the nation:
	 centers Zendon Hamilton (Long Island) and Adonal Foyle (Hamilton),
	 and guard Felipe Lopez (NY City)."

If they have 2 scholarships to offer now, and Boeheim is holding them,
he should have a total of 3 available next year (the 2 he's holding,
PLUS the 2 he gets when Autry and McCorkle graduate, MINUS the one
that's taken away by the NCAA).  3 is plenty with all of the young
talent he has on this team.

I guess his top priority is a center, but from everything I've heard
about Lopez, he's a player that can take you to the next level.
Boeheim's been good at getting top Eastern prospects, so hopefully
he'll get at least one them.

    Joe, Lopez and Hamilton are two kids SJU is going hard after, as well. 
    Hamilton is more of a BF/SF than a center.
    
    In any event, I hope that all three stay in the BE.
    
    Isn't today the start of the Spring signing period for the remaining
    seniors?
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    Joe, I saw where 6'7" So. F Glenn Sekunda (NJ) has received a release to
    transfer to another school (any idea where?), and Anthony Harris, a 6'1" 
    G (Ct), who was redshirted last season, apparently will be lost because 
    of his grades.
    
    Is this a case of SU opening up some more scholarship spots for this
    coming recruiting season?
    
    On another note, 6'11" C Jason Lawson finally chose Villanova (over
    many schools) because he will a "featured player" for Villanova next
    year. 
    
    Hmmmmm....
    
    Redmen Phil 
    

>    On another note, 6'11" C Jason Lawson finally chose Villanova (over
>    many schools) because he will a "featured player" for Villanova next
>    year. 
    
 
 He'll be sharing that spotlight with Kittles....

 mike    

    UConn reserve PG Covington Cormier is leaving the Huskies to play for
    a college team closer to his La. home, according to WFSB-TV.
    
    Redmen Phil
          

    No great loss on the court, but Covington Cormier is a GREAT name!
    
    NAZZ

>    No great loss on the court, but Covington Cormier is a GREAT name!
    
Yeah, it's it's a french pronounciation to boot:  Cor-me-eh, not
Cor-me-er.....

Gotta love it.....

    Heard that SHU recruited some hot shot from Louisiana and that he
    averaged 35 ppg in HS this year.  His name might be Andre Brown and he
    may be a 6'3" 2G.  Also, heard that Ira Bwoman is transferring to a NJ
    school from PC.
    
    Redmen Phil 
                                   

>    Joe, I saw where 6'7" So. F Glenn Sekunda (NJ) has received a release to
>    transfer to another school (any idea where?), and Anthony Harris, a 6'1" 
>    G (Ct), who was redshirted last season, apparently will be lost because 
>    of his grades.

I hadn't heard this Phil.  Both would be big losses.  Sekunda's leaving
definitely weakens this year's team.  I think he's a good forward off
the bench, providing scoring punch.  The only place I saw for him as
a starter, is the small forward spot (he doesn't play "big" enough to
be the power forward), and that would require moving Moten to the back-
court.

Maybe he wasn't going to start as long as he stayed at Syracuse, and he
wants more.  I wonder if this is a sign that Boeheim has indicated that Otis
Hill (red-shirt frosh) or Charles Gelatt (incoming frosh) will be getting
the starting center spot, leaving Wallace and Moten as the forwards ?

Harris had 3 years left, and I was really hoping he'd turn into an explosive 2G.

    More items:
    
    According to Boeheim, Anthony Harris is not expected to return to SU 
    due to "low grades".
    
    Malik Russell, a 6'7" G/F from Brooklyn, has left NDU and will transfer
    to South Carolina (there goes Eddie Fogler getting that NYC connection
    going again).  He will be eligible to play during the 1994-95 season.
    
    Washington U. 6'9" F Mark Pope is transferring to Kentucky.
    
    5'7" Shandue McNeill, a NYC PG, is going to St. Bonaventure next year.
    
    Redmen Phil
     
    
     
    

    re: Eddie Fogler at USC
    
    Eddie is definitely a fast mover.  Virtually all of the kids he'd
    recruited for Vandy (and it was not a bad bunch) are following him to
    South Carolina.
    
    Looks to me like the Gamecocks finally did something right by hiring a
    Dean Disciple.  Eddie will have 'em in the Big Dance in no time, and
    given the significant recruiting advantages he'll enjoy in Columbia
    (Vanderbilt is a top shelf academic school and not given to make
    exceptions for their hoopsters - they steal require a 900+ SAT score
    for admittance) I'd look for them to be a Top20 fixture before long.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>  Looks to me like the Gamecocks finally did something right by hiring a
>  Dean Disciple.

What a surprising statement :-)

The Crazy Met

    SU's Glenn Sekunda has transferred to Penn State.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

Hey Mike, here's Georgetown's only recruit:

	Chiech "Ya Ya" Dia, 6'10" C, Frederick, MD...8ppg, 7rpg, 4bpg...
	a native of Senegal...a reserve on his HS team (St. John's Prospect
	Hall --> #8 in the nation)...he's a "project", and may elect to
	attend prep school instead
	Grade: C


The rest of the Big East (BE Briefs' provided the Grade...if they give
G'town a "C" for that stiff above, their scale is skewed !!!):

BC	Danya Abrams, 6'7" (285 lbs) PF, Tarrytown, NY...24ppg, 14rpg...NYS's
		Mr. B-ball
	Keenan Jourdan 6'8" G/F, Wolfeboro, NH (Brewster Aca)...15 ppg,
		9 rpg, 4 apg...needs to improve ball-handling skills
	Brad Christianson, 6'7" F/G, Menomonee Falls, WI...26ppg, 10rpg,
		4 apg...40% from 3-pt...loves to pass
	Grade: B

UConn	Kirk King, 6'7" F, Baton Rouge, LA...25ppg, 13rpg, 8bpg...finishes
		around the basket...tough competitor
	Ray Allen, 6'5" 2G, Dalzell, SC (Hillcrest)...28ppg, 14rpg, 5apg,
		3spg...SC's Mr. B-ball...sharp-shooter
	Ruslan Inyatkin, 6'6" G/F, West Hartford, CT...21ppg, 18rpg, 3bpg...
		from Ukrainia...good shooter...hasn't met Prop 48
	Marcus Thomas, 6'0" PG, New Castle, PA...10ppg, 8apg...xfer fm Houston
	Grade: A

Miami	Alex Fraser, 6'8" PF, Miami Pace...24ppg, 11rpg, 7bpg...loves to bang
	Jamal Johnson, 6'8" PF, Pensacola, FL (JUCO)...14ppg, 8rpg...big-time
		board-crasher
	Torey McCormick, 6'3" G, Snellville, GA...25ppg, 10apg, 6spg...
		combo-guard, good defender
	Grade: B+

Pitt	Willie Cauley, 6'7" F, Finger Lakes, NY (JUCO)...18ppg, 8rpg...
		unstoppable on the blocks (240 lbs)...started year at
		Dodge City, KS (JUCO) but transfered due to disciplinary
		reasons
	Jaime Peterson, 6'9" F/C, Champlain College (VT)...13ppg, 10rpg,
		3bpg...needs to bulk up
	Sotiris Aggelou, 6'3" 2G, Ellwood City, PA...25ppg, 6rpg...Greek
		import...3-pt shooter
	Grade: B

PC	Eric Williams, 6'8" PF, Vincennes, IN (JUCO)...22ppg, 12rpg...220lbs...
		loves to drive to the hole
	Austin Croshere, 6'10" C/F, Santa Monica, CA...24ppg, 16rpg, 5bpg...
		1st-team City of LA...offense better than defense
	Jason Murdock, 6'3" G, Raritan, NJ...18ppg, 6apg, 5rpg, 4spg...
		Central NJ PoY...quick hands, outstanding leaper
	Piotr Szybilski, 6'10" C, Wolfeboro, NH (Brewster Aca)...17ppg, 13rpg,
		5bpg...Polish import...245lbs...shows signs he could dominate
		in post...may be a couple yrs away
	Grade: A-

SJU	James Scott, 6'6" G/F, Spartansburg (SC) Methodist College...19ppg,
		11rpg, 10apg...1st-team JUCO All-Amer both yrs (only Grandma-
		ma has done that before)...a triple-double guy...finesse and
		strength combo
	Roshown McLeod, 6'8" F, Jersey City, NJ (St. Anthony's)...16ppg,
		11rpg...66% FG shooter...needs to add weight and play more
		aggressively
	Grade: A

SH	Donnell Williams, 6'8" F, Bayonne, NJ...19ppg, 7rpg...1st-team all-NJ...
		unselfish...needs to strengthen upper body
	Andre Brown, 6'4" G/F, Houma, LA...39ppg, 10rpg, 5apg...shoot from
		any distance...state Class 3A MVP...needs to learn to play
		w/out the ball
	Dwight Brown, 6'4" G, Vincennes, IN (JUCO)...16ppg, 7rpg, 5apg...
		quick & strong...loves to drive to the hoop
	Grade: B

SU	Charles Gelatt, 6'8" PF, Binghamton, NY...24ppg, 10rpg, 4bpg...230lbs...
		1st-team all-NYS, 4th-team Parade All-Amer...very effective
		around the basket...good ball-handler and passer...needs to
		increase endurance
	Todd Burgan, 6'6" G/F, Detroit Pershing...15ppg, 7rpg, 4apg...1st-team
		all-Detroit...lefty...played all positions except C...outside/
		inside player...just now blossoming & has promising future
	Grade: B

Vill	Alvin Williams, 6'6" PF, Fort Washington, PA...22ppg, 10rpg, 7apg,
		3spg...7:1 Assists/Turnovers ratio...outstanding playmaker...
		great court savvy and superb defender
	Jason Lawson, 6'10" C, Philadelphia, PA...25ppg, 15rpg, 8bpg...1st-team
		Philly, 2nd-team Parade All-Amer...great competitor...always
		around the glass...can sprint the floor
	Arthur Quarterman, 6'8" PF, Savannah, GA...28ppg, 12rpg, 4bpg...
		finesse or power player...1st-team all-state
	Zeffy Penn, 6'5" WF, Pittsfield, ME (MCI)...15ppg, 7rpg...plays hard
		all the time...great defender
	Kevin Ward, 6'8" F, Frederick, MD (St. John's Prospect Hall)...18ppg,
		9rpg...great speed and jumping ability...hasn't met Prop 48
	Grade: A


BE Briefs, and Tom Konchalski, believe Vill had the best class.  The
conference's overall recruiting was helped by getting the JUCO's.

    SJU coach Brain Mahoney received a seven (7) year extension to his
    contract, which will now last until the year 2000 (according to NY
    papers, he and Rick Pitino are the only College coaches extended that
    far, although that's hard to believe).  He reportedly also received a
    hefty yearly raise.
    
    Mahoney said he and his staff of George Felton and Ron Rutledge are
    preparing for the key summer recruiting period, beginning July 5, with 
    the target of Felipe Lopez and Zendon Hamilton at the top of the Redmen
    recruiting list.
    
    Redmen Phil
              

>    the target of Felipe Lopez and Zendon Hamilton at the top of the Redmen
>    recruiting list.

This is going to be a blood-bath Phil.  Obviously Syracuse has them at
the top of their list too.  It was even reported that Boehiem didn't
recruit any seniors this Spring, electing to focus on the juniors,
and saving some scholarships for next year.

I know SU needs a center, but when I read that Lopez has "Jordanesque"
rise, I hope they land this kid.  Boeheim does well recruiting guards,
and players who like to have the freedom to create on the open floor
(in front of big crowds).  Wallace and Gelatt were both Parade All-Americans,
so Boeheim did well during the difficult last 2 years.  But now he needs
to land a big fish (Top 5 in the country).

Top HS seniors in the East:


Felipe Lopez, 6'5" 2G, New York Rice...25.1 ppg, 8.7 rebs, 2.9 steals,
		2.6 assists
		-Parade 1st-team All-American; NYS Class A PoY
		-Blessed with natural athletic ability, extraordinary
		skills and court savvy.  Fluid, versatile player who can
		slice to the hoop as well as hit the 3-ptr.  Fine ballhandler
		and passer.  Has the complete package.
		-Konchalski:  "Given his skill level, his physical ability,
		and his tremendous appetite for the game, he has the potential
		to be a great player, not only at the next level, but beyond
		that."
		-His list:  Syracuse, SJU, SH, NC, GT, Fla St, OH St, Ind,
		UCLA, Ari, KS

Zendon Hamilton, 6'11" C/F, Floral Park, NY...24.6 ppg, 12.1 rebs, 5.7 blocks...
		-Parade 2nd-team All-American
		-Most scouts say he's the nation's premier big man.  Excellent
		mobility, great hands, good ballhandling skills.  More
		advanced offensively than defensively.  Smooth...perfers to
		face the basket.  Great 2nd and 3rd efforts around the hoop.
		-His AAU coach:  "I would now consider him the top player
		in NY, and the country, over Felipe."
		-His list includes every BE school except UConn.  Also
		considering KS, Fla St, Cal, UCLA, Mich.  He plans to
		pare the list to 10 before the July 5-31 evaluation period.
		According to his AAU coach, Syracuse, SJU, KS, Fla St, and
		Cal should make the list.

Adonal Foyle, 6'9" C/F, Hamilton, NY...23.6 ppg, 16 rebs, 7 blocks, 3 steals,
		3 assists...
		-Power player, with a "chiseled" 245-pound body.
		-Intense competitor and relentless rebounder.
		-Intimidator who challenges and contests every shot.
		-Konchalski: "You're not going to find anybody more physically
		mature at his age."
		-His list:  Syracuse, SJU, SH, Mia, G'town, Duke, NC, Ind, WI,
		OH St, Vir, KS, Mich, ND, Vandy, Fla St, Geo Wash, IA, Ken, Wake

Danny Forston, 6'8" PF, Pittsburgh Shaler (ineligible last yr because of illegal
		transfer)
		-Born scorer who's indefensible in the paint.
		-Konchalski:  "There may not be a better scorer in the East...
		maybe even nationally."
		-Was the leading scorer (33.4) and rebounder (16) at AAU
		in Akron.  Averaging 40 ppg in summer league play.
		-His list:  Strong on Cinn, but also considering Mich, UNLV,
		Vill, Syracuse, Ken, Wake.  Pitt's a longshot 'cause he wants
		to leave the Pittsburgh area.

Allen Iverson, 5'11" PG, Hampton, VA...31.6 ppg, 9.2 assists, 7.7 rebs
		-Parade 1st-team All-American, Virginia PoY
		-Explosive leaper who can dunk at will.
		-Outstanding penetrator who can't be defended one-on-one.
		-Could be top prospect in Class of '94.
		-Konchalski:  "He's the most physically gifted guard I've
		ever seen."
		-Top football player, and is being recruited there too.
		-His list:  Doesn't have one yet (he's facing some criminal
		problems).


BE Schools and the # of scholarships available for '94:

	BC	4
	UConn	0
	G'town	3-4
	Mia	0
	Pitt	4-5
	PC	5-6
	SJU	4
	SH	5
	SU	4
	Vill	2-3

With the top talent in the country disproportionately located in the East,
and the BE having a lot of scholarships to give, it's very important that
they keep these kids home and have a huge recruiting year.


For you SU fans, here's what they're looking for:

	- Centers, wing players, point guards

	- Prospects:  Zendon Hamilton;  Felipe Lopez;  Adonal Foyle;  Allen
		Iverson;  Danny Forston;  Willie Mitchell 6'7" WF Detroit;
		Mickey Curley 6'9" C Duxbury, MA;  Kareem Reid 5'9" PG Bronx;
		Charlie Miller 6'5" G/F Miami;  Jerod Ward 6'8" F Clinton, MS;
		Chris Herren 6'2" 2G Fall River, MA;  LaMarr Greer 6'5" 2G
		Cape May Court House, NJ;  Rashaan palmer 6'5" WF East Orange,
		NJ;  Tarik Turner 6'4" PG Frederick, MD;  Antoine Walker
		6'8" WF Chicago;  Jelani Gardner 6'5" 2G Bellflower, CA

Hey Phil, Lopez was supposed to pare his list to 5 schools by July 5.
Have you heard anything ?

    re: Lopez
    
    He's got it down to:
    
    UNC
    Duke
    GaTech
    UMass
    Fordham
    
    HTH,
    
    ACC Chris

    I saw an article on Lopez in Newsday last week, but there was no word on his
    paring the list down, although there was a commment that SU is in the
    lead.
    
    Redmen Phil
       

>  I saw an article on Lopez in Newsday last week, but there was no word on his
>  paring the list down, although there was a commment that SU is in the
>  lead.

Thanks Phil, I needed some good news.

I don't know why, but when I read about this kid (being from NYC, loving
the open floor game, being a guard), I had a gut-feel that he was SU material.
It may not happen, but in the past, I knew we really didn't have a shot at
the Mournings, Dennis Scotts, James Forrests, but this kid feels good to me.
Kenny Anderson almost went to SU.  Those guards love it up there, and they
should...Bummer was one, and he lets his guards play.

re: .451

Todd Burgan, recruited by Syracuse, won't play this season. He's going to
go to a prep school (not identified) to improve his college entrance test
scores.

TTom

>Todd Burgan, recruited by Syracuse, won't play this season. He's going to
>go to a prep school (not identified) to improve his college entrance test
>scores.

That's too bad.  With Anthony Harris supposedly academically ineligible,
Burgan would have possibly gotten some time as a backup guard (limited
but some).  Initially I had thought Burgan would be red-shirted because
of the overflow of SU guards.  Now they might have a deficiency at those
2 positions.

I wonder if Burgan will stick with SU, ala Moten, after his prep school
stint ?

Speaking of Syracuse, one of the players making headlines in the Hornets
free agent and rookie camp is Stevie Thompson. He led all scores with 22
the other night in a scrimmage. Thompson has virtually no chance to make
the team but hopefully with this type of showing he's attracted attention
of some teams.

TTom

    I just finished reading a NEWSDAY article on Felipe Lopez; the most
    important news in the article is that he will wait for the Spring of
    1994 to make his collegiate choice.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

>                -< Felipe Lopez to wait until the Spring..... >-

If Syracuse is leading the pack at the moment, this isn't good news for
them.  Usually these kids like to get this decision over with and just
enjoy their senior year and not get hassled by recruiters.

He must still be mostly undecided.

    > He must still be mostly undecided.
    
    Any word on his SAT's yet?  Sometimes kids wait when they haven't
    passed, since this can play a significant role in the decision making
    process.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>            -< Does SyrExcuse take non-qualifiers? (ACC doesn't.) >-

One of this year's kids (Todd Burgan) didn't pass the SAT requirement,
and he's heading to prep school.  A few years back Moten did the same
thing.  So my guess is that they do NOT accept kids who don't make
the cut.

    re: Garbarino
    
    I suspect you're right.  (i.e. SU doesn't take SAT flunkies.)  I would
    be very surprised to find out Lopez has already qualified.  If he had,
    he'd make his decision in November.  If he hasn't, it makes an awfully
    lot of sense to wait until Spring signing.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Supposedly Lopez is a decent student coming from a top NYC Catholic HS.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

Some different news on Lopez from Big East Briefs.  They say most college
coaches and "observers" believe St. John's is leading the recruiting race.
Although, his HS coach says he "isn't close to making a decision...the
big question is, 'does he want to go away or does he want to stay home?'...
He hasn't made up his mind yet."  Lopez still includes SU and SH on his list
of 11 schools (3 ACC, 2 Big-10, 2 PAC-10, 1 Big-8).

Also, Zendon Hamilton appears to be favoring SU and St. John's, with no
clear-cut leader.  Hamilton is considering 6 BE, 1 ACC, 1 Big-8, 2 PAC-10,
1 Big-10, 1 Big West.

Another top Eastern recruit is Adonal Foyle.  He lists only 1 BE school (SU).
He's considering 5 Big-10, 3 ACC and 1 Big-8.

Keep an eye out for Stephon Marbury (a Jr. PG, and Hamilton's HS teammate).
He was the star of the Converse ABCD Summer Jam.  He excels on both ends
of the floor, and is getting Kenny Anderson-type attention in NYC.


Some CBS games involving BE teams in non-conference match-ups:

	SH @ Purdue 1/9
	G'town @ DePaul 1/22   (what a yawner...)
	Minn @ SJU 1/30
	Kentucky @ SU 2/12

NC was supposed to play SJU, but they were afraid and chickened out...

no, they had a "scheduling conflict"


SU's Charles Gelatt is attending summer school to be eligible at SU this
Fall.  He didn't complete his HS core req's.  His grandfather was ill this
spring and passed away.  He's on course to be at SU in Sept.

Even with Gelatt, SU has only 9 scholarship players, but Bummer isn't concerned:
"we've got a lot of guys who can play 2 positions, so depth isn't a problem."
Recently he's used 8 or 9 kids in a game, but this year he may revert to his
6 or 7-man rotation.

    I like seeing SJU on course with two key recruits, Lopez and Hamilton.
    
    However, Marbury (NYC) and Hamilton (LI) are not HS teammates.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    re: UNC not playing St.John's
    
    Dean couldn't give a rats bee-hind 'bout playing the Redmen, and he
    certainly ain't skeert to play 'em, what with his full stable of horses
    coming back.
    
    HOWEVER, ... the man does covet the New York talent market and has made a
    pledge to play a game in NYC every year, preferrably in Madison Square
    Garden but The Meadowlands will do.  The Preseason NIT will hopefully
    fit the bill on this score, assuming UNC makes the Final4.  (Gotta beat
    two (2) Sweet 16 teams to get there though ...)
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    OMIGOD - it's started already, and it's only August!!!!
    
    ACC_Chris - please take your poormouthin- over to the ACC note
    where it belongs.  The defending national champs had the best
    recruiting class in the country and return what, eight of the 
    top ten players from that team?
    
    They should walk through the preseason NIT with all that experience.
    
    NAZZ

    re: Nazz
    
    I ain't doin' no poor mouthin'.  The last time I checked, the
    winner of a sporting contest is determined by who has the most points
    at the end of the game, not by the press clippings of your schoolboy 
    phenoms.
    
    It would be an insult to Western Kaintucky and Cincinnati (who had UNC
    on the ropes, to say the least, in the NCAA's) to assume an automatic
    Tar Heel 'W', despite the fact that we is playin' in the DeanDome.
    
    While we're on the subject of poor-moufin' though, when are you going
    to come clean and admit that UMass is a prohibitive A10 favorite and a
    probable national contender (certainly top 10 in USA)?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Chris,
    	UMASS will be lucky to win their league let alone go undefeated.
    Their not even the best team in New England UCONN is.
    
    Jimbo

    UMASS is just the fashionable team to pick for the so called experts.
    UMASS is not a national power.  2 good seasons does not prove anything.
    
    UMASS is a good team maybe #3 in New England.  
    
    Jimbo

What other stong teams are there in NE??

The Crazy Met

    Jimbo obviously you ain't seen this 7-footer play yet.  Trust me when I
    tell you that he's the kind of kid you build a team around.
    
    The thang about UMass is, they already *have* that team!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    So here I am, holding a sewing needle in my fingers.  Y'all are about
    to have your bubbles bursted!
    
    Naturally, SJU is a powerhouse too!
    
    I remain,
    fulfilling the obligatory....
    Kev
    

    If I were a BigEast fan (which, BTW, I'm not - heh heh!) I'd be
    seriously worried about Bobby Cremins snatching Lopez away.  Bobby's
    got the PT to offer and has a very long history of signing up top-notch
    NYC studs.
    
    If Hamilton commits to SU (as expected) fairly early Baywhine will have
    momentum on his side, which is a very powerful recruiting tool these
    days.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    hi
    
    About 3 years ago a High School basketball player out of Durfee High
    decided to go to Boston College. I am not sure of his name but he was
    the star player on Durfee's State champion team..  Does anybody
    remember his name and how he did or is doing at BC. All I remember
    about him was he was a showboat on the court and I always wondered how
    he would turn out in collage. He seemed to be a very good High School
    player butttttttt could he make it in DIV 1 collage ball.
    
    any help???
    
    thanks
    Gary

    I believe your talking about a kid named Herren.  He's playing at
    BC but is a sub.  His little brother is lighting it up for Durfee.
    
    Jimbo

    DUXBURY KAren............
    .
    REK

Herren did transfer...don't remember where.

    hi
    
    Thanks
    
    Herren was his last name.
    
    I remember reading the sports note file back in 1989-1990 when Durfee
    won the states. Back than the topic was on the High school State
    basketball playoffs. A number of people in notes went to the state
    finals and made comments about Mr Harren. They all seemed to agree that
    at the high school level he was a very good player but they all seemed
    to not  like his showboating and one person made the comment that this
    acting will not do at BC...  I guess that  person was right.
    
    
    GO BC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    
    Thisted AM on the way to work, I happened to see a guy walk out of a
    stationary store wereing a t-shirt.  As he turned towards his car door,
    I had the opportunity to see the front.
    
    		"Georgetown Hoya's"
    		-----------------
    		-               -
    		-  picture      _
    		- (not clear)   -
    		-               -
    		-	        -
    		-----------------
    
    		See You In Court
    
    
    
    
    I immediately thought of MrT (Gougetown) and MikeC (who I think is in
    Maine on vacat).
    
    I remain,
    posting it for your reading pleasure!
    Kev
    

 No I'm not vacationing I'm just in class this week. Must be for all those
 fine law students on the team....

 ;^)

 mike

    I see that mighty Syracuse had to scramble to club powerhouse
    Cincinnatri at the Dome..
    
    Anyone catch this tilt?? The Orangemen were bitching about being
    leapfrogged in the polls but look as if they've deserved the
    leapfrogging with a indifferent game vs a overmatched Texas squad
    and then having to eek out a 3 pt win over Cinci with 17(?) straight
    points in the final 8(?) minutes?
    
    Can BC expect to see the same lethargic Orange at the Carrier dome
    next week?
    
    Me doubts it.
    
    MikeL
    

    
    Syracuse whining became a valued tradition under Dick MacPherson.  Why, 
    the nerve of that lousy, weak, third-place SEC finisher Auburn kicking 
    a field goal for the tie to take away our hard-earned and much-deserved
    undefeated season and national championship!  In recent years, you can
    bank on it: when Syracuse starts whining, something bad is just about
    to happen...
    
    glenn
      

    
    Yabbut Glenn, you're just saying all that stuff 'cause you know da
    Ninj' isn't here to stomp yer butt for saying those nasty thangs about
    MacPherson!
    
    If he was here, I think he'd do a major "COWABUNGA" on your haid!
    
    I think I'm gonna tell him what you said
    
    Yeah, that's the ticket!
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    ::Sports future tattle-tale!
    Kev
    

I won't defend SU basketball (ie: Jim Boeheim), but Syracuse football
has nothing to be ashamed of.  Six straight bowls without a defeat,
and they've been beating up on a number of so-called "power-houses"
from the South and West.  They've risen to the occasion, unlike their
"hoop brethren".  And they're doing it with Fla St's, ND's, Miami's,
etc...recruiting leftovers.  And now that they've had some success,
and Miami's on their schedule each year, they're starting to get some
big-time recruits (this year's frosh were rated by some as a Top-10
class).

They have had a tendency to overlook some weaker opponents AT HOME.
So the Cin game is no surprise.  But their road record, and bowl
record have been terrific.  No excuses at Texas...special teams
lost the game.

So Mr. Leary, when's ND going to return the favor (SU putting them
on their basketball schedule for a # of years) and give SU a couple
of games ?  With a roster filled with All-USA's, I can't see why
they wouldn't take on lowly Syracuse :^)


And Glenn, Pat Dye is a disgrace to big-time sports competition.
Why play the game if you're decision is to walk away with a tie ?

    Joe,
    
    You talkin' SU-ND football? Love to see it! Have the two schools
    ever played/talked about a matchup? Would be interesting ( recruiting-
    wise for both schools, ND hasn't recruited much in NY).
    
    MikeL
    
    

I don't think Syracuse would be getting as much flak if'n Graves would
shut his mouth except to call the plays. 

You can't complain about a lack of respect and then tie Texas and almost
lose to Cincinnati. One can only wonder how much he's thinking about the
Heisman instead of the task at hand.

TTom

    
> I don't think Syracuse would be getting as much flak if'n Graves would
> shut his mouth except to call the plays. 
    
    This was my point.  The exact same "lack of respect" thing was being
    thrown around last year by Graves and company before the Miami game.
    And although Syracuse fought back valiantly in that game, ultimately 
    they lost due to some misfires on the final series and Graves left the
    field semi-conscious, puking his guts out.  The Miami players didn't
    much take to his mouth, either...
    
    glenn
      

    Local newspapers here in NY are saying the following:
    
    Felipe Lopez -    It might be down to St. John's or Indiana.  Bobby
                      Knight is pushing hard and making contact himself, an
    		      indication he wants Lopez.  Unsure on when he'll
    		      decide.
    
    Zendon Hamilton - This one may be down to SU and SJU (Hamilton's dad
      		      wants him to attend SJU!).  He will not decide until
    		      the Spring.
     
    
    Redmen Phil
      
    

    re: Lopez
    
    Bobby must've jumped in late because IU wasn't considered one of the
    leading contenders as of a week or so ago.  North Carolina was pushing
    hard for this kid, so this news is surprising, 'specially since Bobby's
    had virtually no presence in NYC through the years.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

               <<< Note 23.500 by RHETT::KNORR "Carolina Blue" >>>
               -< Lopez to Indiana?  I can't see it myself ... >-
				       ^^^^^^

					shouldn't that read "DON'T WANT TO"

	If this guy is as good as you guys talk it could mean number 4 for
 Bobby..........

 mike

    Tell ya what, if The Big East loses Lopez to Indiana it's time to take
    the pulse of the league, cause IMO it's D-E-A-D.  I could see a team
    like Carolina coming in and landing this kid 'cause of our long
    standing NewYawk connection, but Indiana?!  Never.
    
    BTW, those preliminary preseason polls are starting to show up at
    newstands.  The general consensus is NO Big East teams in the Top 10. 
    Two (2) teams in the bottom top 20ish.  (Georgetown & SorryExcuse)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Man, o Man is Syracuse reeling or what?
    
    24-21 horror show vs mighty Pitt. With Pitt 4th down and goal on
    the 2 with time running out. 
    
    They'll be cannon fodder for Miami if they continue to play like they
    have.
    
    MikeL
    

Latest BE Briefs says Hamilton's father does want him to go to SJU, but
that's only because the family could then see him play.  Hamilton himself
appears to be leaning to SU 'cause he grew up a Syracuse fan and Coleman
was/is his favorite player.

As for Lopez, BE Briefs says his final list includes:  Syracuse, SJU, SH,
Indiana, UCLA, Fla St, Ohio St, NC, and KS.  Boeheim was the 1st to make
a "home visit", and Mahoney will be the last.  They do not identify a
favorite.

The 3rd of the Top 3 eastern recruits is Adonal Foyle.  His final list
includes Syracuse, Duke, KS, Wisconsin and Colgate.  These five were
chosen because of their academic reputation and the coach's reputation.
He may decide during the Early Signing Period.  I would guess that it's
really down to SU and Duke.  Will Coach K help his good buddy Bum-heim
and bow-out of the running if Jimmy doesn't get one of the above 2 ?

    re: .-1
    
    Good info Joe.  How many of these three (3) have qualified thus far?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    Good info Joe.  How many of these three (3) have qualified thus far?

They specifically state that Foyle has met Prop 48 requirements (he's an
honors student).

Also, SJU's visit with Lopez (the last of the schools to visit his home)
was 10/9.  I would guess that his list has been pared considerably by
now.

    Mike H. yer the only person I know who probably owns AND wears Rush
    Limbaugh Underroos!!!
    
    (8^)
    
    JaKe
    

nah JaKe, I now people who make MikeH look like a raving liberal. now that
is truly frightening.

The Crazy Met

    re.509
    
    That is TRULY SCARY!!!!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    It just occured to me that if I took Joe's "Big East Brief" in
    combination with my "Poop Sheet" we'd pretty much describe the state of
    affairs for my son, who's 2� years old and desperately trying to grasp
    the art of toilet training!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Jake we all know you're Rush's #1 fan.  Besides, my Rush underroos have
    a big brown stain on them.
    
    Hillary and Rush happened to be alone in the same elevator in
    Washington a few weeks back.  She started to tear off her clothes and
    said, "Rush, make a REAL woman out of me!"
    
    Rush started to remove his clothes and said, "Here, fold these."

I just found out today that SU basketball (single game) tickets went on
sale yesterday...that's 1-2 weeks earlier than usual.  I called and was
surprised to hear that tickets were still available for the Kentucky
game on Sat, 2/12 (a CBS game).  I got 8 of them.  Usually big game
tickets are gone after the first day.  Perhaps the early selling date
caught everyone by surprise.

    
    	Yabbut I know I'm probably 3-4 weeks too early for this but 
    are we gonna do the B-E rotis thing again this year?
    
    I remain,
    savin mah money so if I don't beat MikeC thisted year, it won't hurt
    as much as lasted year  ;^(
    Kev
    

    I want to officially apply for a franchise in the B-E rotis.
    
    You guys don't want any of those UCONN stiffs on your team
    anyways.....

    With all due respect to the enjoyment I've garnished from B-E rotis,
    cain't we all come clean and admit that the talent level is *so* low
    that we oughta cancel it due to lack of interest?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Felipe Lopez has eliminated Indiana from his list, which is down to
SJU, Syracuse, SH, UCLA, Fla St, Ohio St, NC and KS.

Zendon Hamilton has knocked UNLV off his list, which includes SJU,
Syracuse, PC, Vill, Fla St, Cal and So Carolina St (why ?).

Adonal Foyle is down to Syracuse, Duke and Colgate.

Others:		Chris Herren (Fall River, MA) -> SU, BC, Fla, Wis
		Mike Maddox (Atlanta Mays) -> Vill, W Ken, KS, Vir
		Bobby Lazor (Norwich, NY) -> SU, Pitt, Vir, Ariz
		Jahidi White (St Louis) -> G'town and others
		Norman Nolan (Balt Dunbar) -> PC, Mich, Geo Tech, Vir


SJU got a verbal commit from 6'5" PG Tarik Turner.  Turner was leaning
toward SU, but rumor has it that he chose SJU after Stephon Marbury
(the nation's #1 Jr. point guard) told him that he was likely going to
sign with Syracuse next year.  Turner denies that Marbury's statement
influenced his decision.  He says Syracuse told him that they were going
to recruit 2 guards this year, and one next.  He went to a program that
told him that he was going to be the man at the point.

This is terrific news for Syracuse fans.  Marbury surprisingly stole
the spotlight from some HS seniors this summer.  At Converse's ABCD
Summer Jam, "his entire week was a highlight film"..."people knew he
was excellent, but I don't think they realized how good he really is.
He was probably the most mesmerizing player there" (Konchalski).
"He plays on both ends of the floor...he's the best defensive guard
in the country" (one of the top college coaches).

At Five-Star's August session he was named 1-on-1 champ, best playmaker,
and most promising prospect.

Konchalski also says, "he's the Rolls Royce of guards in the Class of
'95".  He's being likened to Kenny Anderson.

Unfortunately, he's said that he likely will NOT go to the same school
as HS teammate Felipe Lopez.  If Marbury is serious about signing with
SU, that could mean that Lopez is NOT serious about them.


BTW, the early signing period is 11/10-17.

    A few notes from the Big Apple:
    
    SJU Coach Brian Mahoney, on the eve of the initial 93/94 practice
    session, said he expected that 6'5" PG Tarik Turner (a Top 60 player
    from MD/VA?) was going to sign with SJU on Nov.10, although his No. 2 
    school was UVa, not SU (I wonder about that story about Marbury and SU).
    
    This recruit is interesting in that So. Maurice Brown was supposedly the
    PG for the next 3 years.  In the same article, Mahoney states that the
    93/94 PG will be either Brown, Sr. Lee Green (I hope not; poor ball
    control but great defense) or 6'6" JUCO James Scott (a surprise to me).
    
    The signing of Turner could be a blow to Brown, but one thing to keep
    in mind is that Brown will be a Jr. when Turner arrives, and Turner
    could back him up for a couple of seasons.
    
    On the Lopez/Hamilton fronts, here's the latest from the Big Apple:
    
    Lopez has publicly narrowed down his choices to SJU, Fla. St., SHU, N.C. 
    and Kansas, but he has actually cut his choices to SJU and SHU.  SJU gets
    an advantage for its Latin enrollment, while SHU gains an edge because
    of a more campus-like atmosphere.
    
    As for Hamilton, its more of the same; it has come down to SJU and SU. 
    Hamilton's dad is said to be pushing hard for SJU (as a result he
    probably will go to SU).
    
    Redmen Phil
                                                                 

>    session, said he expected that 6'5" PG Tarik Turner (a Top 60 player
>    from MD/VA?) was going to sign with SJU on Nov.10, although his No. 2 
>    school was UVa, not SU (I wonder about that story about Marbury and SU).

By his quoted comments in Big East Briefs, Turner was confirming his lean
toward SU, and Marbury's statement about signing with SU next year.


>    Lopez has publicly narrowed down his choices to SJU, Fla. St., SHU, N.C. 
>    and Kansas,

This is consistent with my impression from Marbury's statement (he isn't
going to the same school as Lopez, so that means Lopez isn't going to SU).


>    As for Hamilton, its more of the same; it has come down to SJU and SU. 

The kid must be leaning toward SU if his father is pushing that hard
for SJU.  In another article I read, it seems that with no real center
at SU currently, Boehiem should have this kid in his back pocket.

    Joe, remember that SJU has the same problem at cneter.  Hamilton could
    step right in and play next year, what with Scott moving on (R/S 6'10" 
    Fr. Tom Bayne is not the answer for the future.
    
    More on Lopez: According to local paper Newsday:
    
    "Recent reports stating Felip Lopez has included NC and KS on his final
    list of colleges are incorrect.  One of those schools still might make 
    the list, but as of this moment, each merely is vying for a spot.  This 
    much is definite: Lopez is visiting Fl. St. this weekend (Halloween), 
    will visit SHU the weekend of 11/12-14 and will go to UCLA 12/3-5.  This 
    much is heavily speculated: local favorite SJU is in the final five."
    
    Redmen Phil
     

    FWIW Lopez has already visited UNC, and despite all the BigLeast
    propaganda that it's down to SorryExcuse and SethingHell, Carolina/Dean
    have had a way of getting in late with a kid and closing a deal. 
    (Exhibit A was Rasheed Wallace.  We were supposedly on the outs with
    his final list until Dean showed up at his doorstep the day after the 
    Title and, wail, I do believe I saw him wearing baby blue during Dickie 
    V's Midnight Madness show.)
    
    It's also worth pointing out the sorry track record of the Big East
    over the last 5 years in signing top shelf talent on a consistent
    basis.  Lopez might help turn that tide, although with all the talent
    in the NorthEastCorridor this year it would've been tough *not* to do
    well.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    More on Lopez: According to local paper Newsday:
>    much is heavily speculated: local favorite SJU is in the final five."

From everything I've read, he's got "Jordan-esque rise", so if SU isn't
going to get him (which appears to be the case), I hope either SH or SJU
does.

Chris,

The local word is that Lopez was *VERY* impressed with Chapel Hill. At
least that's what the local media and talk-shows are reporting.

TTom

    re: .524
    
    If Lopez ends up signing with Carolina me_thinks the integrity of some
    of these BigLeast rags that are being quoted are open to serious
    integrity questions.  
    
    Humph.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    If Lopez ends up signing with Carolina me_thinks the integrity of some
>    of these BigLeast rags that are being quoted are open to serious
>    integrity questions.  

Come again Chris ???  Phil is quoting NY's NEWSDAY, a local paper, and
no BE publication.  And I provided info from BE Briefs, which only said
that Indiana was out, and 7 schools were still "in" (including NC).
What's your beef ???

yeah  right IggKnorr....

and if Dallas doesn't win the superbowl again this year you should question the
integrity of all those publications that predicted they'd win as well...

Metz

    Geez,
    Enuf of this BBall stuff. Have you guys given up on Big East football
    yet?
    
    Interesting matchup this weekend. Va Tech at BC. Tech gave Miami
    a tussle before losing 21-3 and actually had West Virginny on the
    ropes before succumbing in Morgantown. BC's been on a roll but
    I bet Tech will give them all they can handle. The Eagles might be
    primed to be upset.
    
    How bout the West by Gawd Virginny Mountaineers?? Pasted A Syracomatose
    team 49-0, at da Dome!! When do the Mountaineers (led by ex-Domer
    Kelchner) play da Canes?? I think they have both Miami and BC at
    home and really have no remaining hurdles away, n'est-ce-pas??
    
    Man, people go on about Micgigan being overrated... jest take a look
    upstate NooYawk way with the Syracomatose Orange. Outscored 92-0
    in their last two games. Weren't they rated #4 or 5 nationally in the
    pre-season polls? Something is really wrong up there. This team
    has out and out quit... 
    
    
    MikeL
    

Michigan and Syracuse are four-star flops.

They aint alone in Football Chokedom. Stanford, Arizona St, and Iowa are
all doing their best to maximize underachieving.

I agree that Va Tech-BC should be a goodun.

TTom

    
    West Virginia plays at BC Friday Nov. 26th

    Thanks,
    I thought it was BC at West Virginny.
    So the Eagles get the Mountaineers one week after BC travels to
    South Bend. 
    
    BC's schedule(I think)
    
    11/6   Va Tech
    11/13  at Pitt
    11/20  at ND
    11/26  West Virginia
    
    Gut check time for Coughlin and crew.
    
    MikeL
    

>    BC's schedule(I think)
    
>    11/6   Va Tech
>    11/13  at Pitt
>    11/20  at ND
>    11/26  West Virginia
    
>    Gut check time for Coughlin and crew.


Virginia Tech will beat BC this weekend.  To-date, BC's only big win is
over Syracuse, and in light of how they're playing, you have to question
if that's a big win.  BC will be fortunate to go 2-2 over their last 4.
My guess is 1-3.


re: something wrong at Syracuse

You've got that right, Mike.  Even when they weren't a national player
(during the late-60s and '70s), they were never pounded like they have
been the last 2 weeks.  Other than their 1st 2 games, they've played
poorly all year.  There should be a lot of questions around Paul
Pasqualoni now.  McPhearson rebuilt this program, and had it on track
to become a perennial top 10 contender.  Recruiting has never been
better.  But they've taken a huge step backwards this year.  And in
college sports, a bad year can snowball quickly if it affects that year's
recruiting.  Going into the year, Syracuse was positioned as the #2
choice in the BE, behind Miami.  With their performance this year,
and the success of BC, V Tech, and W Virg, they must be in trouble now.

Jake Crouthamel (SU AD) has shown a patient hand (look at the idiot
he's got coaching the basketball team), so Pasqualoni may not be in
trouble.  But going from NCAA championship contender, to a bowl no-go
is shocking.

	Well if it's any consolation the 11/13 game vs Pitt should be no
	problem for BC.  As much as I hate to admit it, Pitt has become the
	doormat of Big East Football this year.  (Even if they are "the best
	Pitt football team" good old Lou has ever seen.)


	billl

    
    I was just astounded at Syracuse's performance since the BC game.
    Granted, BC controlled that game, but at least SU put up a fight.
    They seemed to have quit since then. They were fortunate to escape
    Pitt and then the two blowouts. Guess it's MORE gut check time
    (longterm) for the Orangemen now.
    
    MikeL
     

    
    
    I agree that SU hasn't been the same since the BC game. Against WVU,
    they looked like a team that quit. Their game against Temple could be
    a real disgrace...
    
    This IS gut check time for BC. They should loose to ND, but of all
    their remaining games, I'm actually most afraid of Pitt.
    
    BC played WVU to a draw last year in Morgantown. Last year WVU had
    James Jett (LA Raiders) and Adrian Murrell (NY Jets) and it was a
    close game that BC really should have won. The field goal kicker for
    BC missed a @25 yarder that could have won it. At no point in the
    game was WVU able to really contain BC's offense. I think BC is a 
    much better offensive team this season. Since the game's at BC, I
    think BC could take it.
    
    Virginia Tech is a good team, but I sense that Coughlin will have the
    team ready to play. VT is ranked above BC, and I believe that will also
    motivate them.
    
    The Pitt game is in Pitt and comes before big games at ND and against
    WVU at home. Pitt's been in against everybody and will have nothing to
    loose. Pitt's confidence is growing after the Rutgers game. Majors is
    a top flight coach....This is the game that scares me!
    
    

>    BC played WVU to a draw last year in Morgantown.
>    was WVU able to really contain BC's offense.

SU beat WVU at Morgantown last year, and look what WVU did to them on
the road !  WVU has the #2-ranked defense in the country against the run,
BC will have to put it up.  And their QB (the kid that transferred from
ND) really is good.


I've said many times (over the last decade) that the Syracuse football team
has risen to the challenge of a big game, whereas their buddies on the basket-
ball team, more times than not, go the other way.  So what's happening now
is really a reversal of that pattern and must be a concern for the athletic
dept.

    Gee Joe,
    
    Don't be so bleak about SU's BBall program... after all you can do
    worse and be an ND fan!
    
    And did I see right that the Syracuse-Temple game is a NL??
    Why no line? Has the Orange sunk so low in the estimation of the
    betting regime?? Wow!
    
    MikeL
    

Zendon Hamilton appears to be heading to the Big East.  His final list
is:  Syracuse, SJU, Villanova and South Carolina State.  Hamilton's AAU
coach, Gary Charles:

	"Zen is keeping his options open.  At Villanova the power forward
	 spot is open.  St. John's is in the picture because it's home,
	 there's a lot of media coverage in NY, and he has a bunch of
	 friends on the team.  Syracuse was his first love...they have
	 the Dome, which is very attractive to him.  At this point I
	 don't think he can go wrong with any of those particular schools."

South Carolina St. is on the list because they felt it was important to
give an all-black college consideration.

Hamilton has NOT met Prop 48 requirements, and will not make a decision
until the Spring.


Felipe Lopez is making official visits to Fla St, UCLA and SH.  During the
Jan/Feb he will also visit SJU, and ONE OF Syracuse, KS, NC, or Ohio St.
He originally eliminated Syracuse, but added them back to his list (although
most believe he's not strong on SU).  SH and SJU appear to be the favorites.
He will also wait until the Spring to sign a letter of intent.

Adonal Foyle and Chris Herren WILL sign during the Early Signing Period
(11/10 - 11/17).  Foyle will choose between Duke, SU and Colgate (Foyle's
guardian, Jay Mandle, is a professor at Colgate).  Herren will choose between
BC, SU, Florida and Wisconsin.  It's believed that BC is the favorite, as
Herren says, "it'll come down to whether I want to stay close to home or
not."


SU has four scholarships to give (plus they're holding one for Todd Burgan,
a recruit last year who didn't meet Prop 48 req's).  Their prospects:

	Hamilton, 6'11" C/F, Floral Park, NY
	Foyle, 6'9" C/F, Hamilton, NY
	Lopez, 6'5" 2G, NYC
	Herren, 6'2" 2G, Fall River, MA
	Bobby Lazor, 6'8" F, Norwich, NY
	Willie Mitchell, 6'7" WF, Detroit, MI
	Eggie McRae, 5'10" PG, East Boston, MA
	Jelani Gardner, 6'5" G, Beliflower, CA
	Jason Cipolla, 6'6" F/G, Tallahassee Community College
	Samaki Walker 6'9" PF, Columbus, OH

They reportedly have a very good shot at both Hamilton AND Foyle, and
are in decent shape with Herren and Lazor.  They and Cal-Irvine lead
the race for McRae.  Mitchell is a former teammate of Todd Burgan's, and
Cipolla was recruited by SU last year.

    I thought I had read that Herren has picked BC.....
    
    REK

>    I thought I had read that Herren has picked BC.....

Did you read that over the last couple of days ?  BE Briefs usually updates
its info at the middle-to-end of the week, and it's in your mailbox at the
beginning of the next.

    I thought I read it the the Globe Sunday or Monday....
    
    REK

>  There's a lengthy article about Herren in today's Globe. He doesn't
> specifically say so but it would seem that he's leaning toward BC.

Today's Globe says Herren has cancelled his BC visit for this weekend,
and is holding a press conference today to announce his signing with
Syracuse.  That article yesterday seemed to indicate this was coming,
as the kid said he liked SU, and was closer to making his decision
after his visit there than he was before it.

If Boehiem lands both Herren and Foyle during the early signing period,
he'll have a great start toward having the best recruiting class of
the year.  Early signings can influence Spring signings, and these 2
may help Hamilton with his decision.

>                         -< SU gets a BIG recruit !!! >-

oooops !  Never mind....


Did this kid and his HS coach play the Globe like a well-tuned fiddle,
or what ???

    There was a great article on Felipe Lopez in NY Newsday yesterday.  When
    time permits, I'll enter some info.
    
    Brendon Boyce, a 6'6" C from Martin Luther King HS in NYC, signed with
    Bridgeport.
    
    Darryle Flicking, a Fr. at Riverside (Ca.) CC, gave a verbal to
    Cal-Riverside.  As a NYC HS Sr. last year, this guard averaged 25 ppg
    and 7 rpg.
    
    By the way, if Herren signed with BC, I believe that's the topping on a
    great class for them.
    
    Redmen Phil 
    

>    By the way, if Herren signed with BC, I believe that's the topping on a
>    great class for them.

The locals are claiming it's possibly a Top5.  Not bad, given the early signing
period started just yesterday.

Gee Chris, with BC's success, and the *possibility* that SU could get
Foyle, Hamilton, etc., the BE may have a rebound recruiting year.  Now
admit it, your life will be much more fun with this favorite adversary
back at full strength again, won't it ?

    Early indications are the BigEast is off to a very strong start,
    breaking recent trends of signing the "good but not great" players.
    
    It's those Top 5/10 players who will take programs to The Promised
    Land.  The fact that a typically 2nd-tier school like BC is locking
    down the talent is also a strong sign, since ya know
    Syracuse/Georgetown are gonna get their share.
    
    This was a year the league simply had to have, what with the top-flight
    talent more concentrated in the NorthEast than normal.  The fact that
    North Carolina/Duke are pretty well loaded for the future helped keep
    'em out, and for some reason Bobby Cremins hasn't been working his New
    York magic much lately.
    
    In order to maintain their rightful spot as the #1 conference for years
    to come the ACC needs some of their 2nd-tier schools (especially NC
    State) to pick it up a notch.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    In order to maintain their rightful spot as the #1 conference for years
>    to come the ACC needs some of their 2nd-tier schools (especially NC
>    State) to pick it up a notch.  

Hail I'll take this slur as a compliment. One can only hope that they
avoid the 9th place slot.

TTom

what's wrong with Thursday night??

The Crazy Met

    re: TTom
    
    "2nd-tier" as defined as everybody besides UNC & Duke.  
    
    
    re: Crazy Met
    
    Thursday night is in reference to the hideous "play-in" game the ACC
    Tournament had to implement when it went to nine (9) teams.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

So you're saying State is as good as Georgia Tech, Wake, Virginia?

Again, thank you. You're being much too kind.

Yeah, rather than that stupid Thursday night, they should just let the
9th team stay at home. Isn't that the Big East way?

The onliest part that I like about it is when the tournament is at the
Charlotte Coliseum. You can usually get into this Thursday night game and
then just look for the losers heading home and you're probably get a
whole book of tickets.

TTom

BE always had 8 play 9. Now they have 7 play 10 and 8 play 9.

The Crazy Met

That seems like penalizing the 7 team.

The stupidity of this is that any team involved with a play-in has to
play a_extra game making upsets even less likely. Not to mention the fact
that it's more time away from class and generally harder on the players.

All that for not much extra revenue: 1 more TV game that few are
interested in.

On this 8/9 thang, I guess I was thinking of how they made the 9 team
stay home to avoid abuse in the ACC-BigEast showdowns. Certainly, this
year, State would've been spared the trip.

TTom

> The stupidity of this is that any team involved with a play-in has to
> play a_extra game making upsets even less likely. Not to mention the fact
> that it's more time away from class and generally harder on the players.

	TTom, we don't care about that stuff up here. We just want our
 players to go out and hammer one another. Haven't you been paying
 attention to Chris? Why do you think all them sissy playmaking guards
 go south? They don't want to be hit....

> All that for not much extra revenue: 1 more TV game that few are
> interested in.

 If you could see the bar at MSG for one of these games you'd change your
 mind about how much extra revenue is generated. I got to laugh at these
 people who pay 35 bucks for a seat and then spend the game in the bar
 watching it on TV....hahaa

 mike

Mike, 

What I was refering to is the revenue the league gets out of the game.
It's a Thursday night game between the 8th and 9th teams in the ACC. How
much can ESPN be paying? 

Now if'n ESPN is making big bucks outta it somehow, more power to 'em.

And how we got to the MSG, I have no clue.

TTom

>  And how we got to the MSG, I have no clue.

 We are in the big east note and the 8-9 game now the 8-9 and 7-10 games
 are played at MSG.......

 mike

    So, given all of this, who's signing who?
    
    Please advise.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

>    So, given all of this, who's signing who?

Talked with a friend back in Upstate NY last night and he said that Bobby Lazor
(6'8" power forward) has signed with Syracuse.  Lazor (Norwich, NY) picked
Syracuse over Pitt, Virginia and Arizona.  His stock rose during the NIKE camp,
and the NYS Empire State games.  Aside from his physical skills (soft touch,
size, jumping ability), scouts rave about his POTENTIAL.  He just turned 17
in Sept.  His father (Bob Lazor, Pitt class of '57) believes he will end up
at 6'10", 230-240 lbs.  He was NYS Class B player of the year as a Jr. (20ppg,
10 rebs/gm, 44% on 3-pt shots).

It's reported that he has an ability to play big in big games.

    If he's long on potential Joe, why's he going to play for Bumheim?!  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    The gist of the article on Lopez in Newsday last week is that he is
    down to 8 schools, Fla. State, Kansas, NC, SHU, SJU, Ohio State, SU and
    UCLA.  Expected to make his list of Final 5 are SJU, SHU, Fla. State, NC
    and Ohio State.
    
    The reasons: SJU has local media attention, fan adulation and the
    Garden and is home; SHU offense is geared to the 2 Guard, and is close
    to home; Fla. State is in only if Sura is gone after his Jr. year, the
    same story as NC and Donald Williams; while Ohio State has Ayers, the
    only minority coach.
    
    Each member of Lopez' family has a specifc job in tracking the
    recruiting of Lopez.  He is already ok SAT-wise, and will sign in the
    Spring.
    
    Redmen Phil  
    

Phil, Chris,

Any news from the weekend ?  Has Foyle decided ?  Duke or SU ?

    Foyle gave a verbal to Colgate this AM.  A real shocker for SU.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    Joe, just kidding on Foyle.  I really haven't heard anything.
    
    Redmen Phil
    
    

Just heard that Pittsburgh hoops got 2 years probation. Something about
major rules violations. No post season ban, though.

What's worse: violations of major rules or major violations or rules?

TTom

    Pitt got a light slap on the wirst, 2 yrs probie, and lost, I think, 2
    scholarships over the two years.
    
    JaKe
    

    BTW, the violations occured over the recruitment of Jamal Faulkner outa
    NYC who ended up going West (probably for more $$$).
    
    One thing I wish college basketball had was the equivalent of a 'Hard
    Copy' TV show, where we'd all find out what *really* happened.  When
    the NCAA issues their press conferences to announce these things they
    make the violations seem oh-so-normal, as if it was probably just an
    oversight by Pittsburgh (in this case) and we can all assume they
    probably just gave him an extra hat or somethin'.
    
    The 'College Basketball Hard Copy' report would go something like:
    
    "Billy Joe Smith, Pittsburgh Class of '59 and owner of the Best Buys 
     Used Chevrolets car dealership, paid Faulkner several thousand dollars 
     during his official visit to Pitt for drying off cars using the new 
     clothing he'd supplied Jamal with.  The NCAA discovered that these 
     services were actually never performed."
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Pitt will be limitied to 12 athletic scholarships in 1994-95 and
    1995-96.  Also, recruiting visits will be cut from 15 to 12 next
    season, and for 6 months, only the head coach and 1 asst. may
    recruit off-campus, rather than 2 assts.
    
    In some recruiting news, BC signed 5, notably 6'2" G Chris Herren, G
    Duane Woodward of Queens, NY, and Mickey Curley.  6'9" BF Bobby Lazor 
    signed with SU.  G'town added 6'9" BF/C Jahidi White from St. Louis,
    and SJU got 6'5" PG Tarik Turner from Va.
    
    Today, Adonal Foyle will choose among SU, Duke and Colgate.  I'm and
    SJU are rooting for SU, since Zendon Hamilton will probably choose SJU
    if Foyle goes to SU.
    
    Redmen Phil
     

>    Today, Adonal Foyle will choose among SU, Duke and Colgate.  I'm and
>    SJU are rooting for SU, since Zendon Hamilton will probably choose SJU
>    if Foyle goes to SU.

Foyle chose COLGATE !!!!  He's one of USA Today's Super25 HS players, and
he chooses COLGATE over SU and Duke.  Go figure....


Your suspicions may be right Phil.  Perhaps Foyle believes Hamilton is
going to commit to SU, and saw a conflict.  I hope so.

    Shock City..........re: Foyle.
    
    Redmen (I'll keep this nickname forever, even if SJU changes it) Phil
    

    re: Foyle
    
    It's noteworthy that *both* of Foyle's guardian's are perfessors at
    Colgate.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    It's noteworthy that *both* of Foyle's guardian's are perfessors at
>    Colgate.  

True, but what are they thinking ?  Is playing at Colgate really in
his best interest ?  It's not like Colgate is some academic giant.
It's a good school, but nothing special.

 Family Values and all that Joe, it's just a game remember...if the kid's
 a player with NBA caliber he'll find his way there no matter what school
 he attends...

 TOWNSON ST????????????????????????????????

 mike

    Can we *really* consider the Towson State 'W' over St. John's an upset,
    what with the fact that the BigLeast is *so* down and the Redmen are
    not one of the better teams in the league?!
    
    Just wonderin' ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Needless to say, a poor showing by the Redmen last night.  The only one
    who showed up to play was C Shawnelle Scott, with 24 pts.  Townson St.
    consistently beat SJU off the boards.
    
    For SJU, JUCO James Scott has promise, but was far too tentative.  Fr.
    F Roshown McLeod is going to be a real good one.  He's got the St.
    Anthony's/NJ stamp all over him, and is plenty smooth.
    
    Beyond that, Fred Lyson played well, but the PG position is a problem. 
    So. Maurice Brown was very tentative, and back up Lee Green is still too out
    of control.
    
    The good news is that SJU has 12 days to fix a number of problems,
    before their next game.
    
    Redmen Phil
                                                                   

	Just in case everyone missed it, Pitt beat Temple this past Saturday.


	Whoopeee,
	billl

    re: .-1
    
    I assume we're talking football here, cause there ain't no way the
    probation-bound Pitt basketball team is beating a vewy skary Temple 
    basketball team this year.  Uh-uh.  No way, no how.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Thanks to Boston College for making my weekend !  One of the few times
I'm on their side...but I'm on everyone's side who goes up against the
joke of the Catholic schools (ND).  I almost felt ill when they showed
that candle in the grotto....Lou Holtz and a religious reference, what
heresy !

Will West Virginia get a shot at the title if they beat BC ?  I'm sure
the writers would love to pass-up Nebraska.

    Joke of the Catholic schools?
    
    What the hell does that mean Joe? What kind of idiotic statement
    is that? 
    
    I feel like keeping my job so I'll refrain, in this conference,
    from telling you where you can go.
    
    MikeL
    

    In Mike's defense there is an article in glob today about daily mass at
    ND and no athlete dorms.
    
    And for a guy who goes back to Terry Brennan comic books and the days when
    the Irish were underdogs until Parseghian brought them back in 60s I
    used to root for the Laimpuka teams of the 70s amidst a storm of
    anti-notre dame abuse.
    
    	So being a softy anyway I think we need to go a bit easy on Mikel
    this week... at least until the powers that be rig a way for ND to pull
    of the mnc.
    
    Basking-bill

    Gee basking-bill,
    
    I liked your note until the last sentence 8^)
    
    I ain't overly touchy more than usual after a miserable-MNC-ending-
    upset-to-a-brave-bunch-of-well-coached-marvelously-ezxecutable-bunch-
    of-Jesuit-led-school-football-team....I'll just have to hear about
    it ad nauseum from the bandwagon jumpers BC fans like those idjits
    on TV and radio for 24 hrs a day... Me touchy?? Nah. The real BC
    fans have cause to celebrate and they should..
    
    Me? I'm a BC fan this Friday ( selfish reasons a_course)!
    
    MikeL
    

Calm down Mikey.  Take a deep breath.  The support systems are there - we'll 
get you through this.  No need to lash out...  One day at a time.

The Catholic schools I've gone to (both Jesuit, BTW) have some integrity
and values.  To me, Lou Holtz is one of the coaches who represents MOST
of what's wrong in big-time college athletics.  He had a long trail of
accusations before he got to ND, and now, after The Book, he's brought
his crap there.  ND shows how much they care by hiring him, and standing
by him.

Money's the name of the game at big ND...IMO, they've compromised (at least
temporarily) the values of a catholic education.

As a comparison, look at what the Univ. of SF did years back by dropping
their division one basketball program after it compromised that institution's
values.  But that's a Jesuit school too.

    Ah so you're stooping to the level of Jesuit vs Holy Cross Fathers.
    What is it with this stupid internecine comparison that you've
    concocted? You certainly didn't get this merde from the Jesuit
    priests did you?  What a load of baloney. And you think I'm
    brainwashed?? Not once have I ever put down any Jesuit-run
    school, I happen to think they offer a fine education.
    What whisperings have you dreamed up about the "integrity and
    values" or lack of at a Holy Cross-run institution?
    You impugn ND because you have an emotional crusade against
    Holtz?  What do you know about ND or how they run their school?
    Absolutely nada I believe. Calling ND a "Catholic joke" is
    nothing more than a knee jerk reaction against Holtz and an
    insult against a university about which you probably know
    nothing.
    
    If you have something against Holtz, fine. I'm not here to argue
    the merit of the man, and btw, I believe you're dead wrong about
    him. 
    
    I don't know Joe, but from quick interpretation of your words,
    I believe jealousy comes to mind. I don't know why, but didn't
    they teachyou at those fine Jesuit institutions that jealousy
    is a sin? ( thast's sort of a joke, son).
    
    MikeL
    
    
    What a load of rubbish. Insinuating that ND has no integrit

�    Ah so you're stooping to the level of Jesuit vs Holy Cross Fathers.
    
    Holy Cross is a Jesuit school, Mike.
    
    Do you have to be Catholic to attend Notre Dame?

    -1,
    I did say in that paragraph "I believe", meaning that Joe is
    entitled to his own opinion of the man, oh sneering one
    
    MikeL
    

    Mac,
    Of course not. Notre Dame is run by the Order of Holy Cross Fathers,
    and Boston College as well as other schools, are run by the
    Jesuit orders, two separate orders of Catholic priests. 
    
    To Catholics, there has always been friendly rivalry and bantering
    among different orders of Catholic priests ( Holy Cross, Jesuit,
    Dominican, Salesian, etc). Pretty harmless or so I thought.
    
    MikeL
    
    

re .591

RRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLWWWWWWAAAAARRRRDDDD