Conference back40::soapbox

I see he's got a flat tax proposal as well, which seems to be a bit more
attractive to the middle class than Forbes' plan.

And he seems to be committed to smaller Fed Gov.

What are the negatives on this guy? Too far to the right?

He certainly has plenty of political experience, whether for the good or no.

Ok - in the spirit of the Steve Forbes topic (thanks, Phil), what do we have
to say about Phil Gramm?

    Anybody but Dole.

	Graham is much angrier than Dole. Not good.

>	Graham is much angrier than Dole. Not good.

'Splain?

I must admit that I haven't been following Gramm too carefully so far,
but I'm interested to hear all sides.

Is this the "mebbe too far right" part?

    well, he's prettier than Forbes and Dole, but less attractive than
    Clinton and that's all i have to say on the sub-ject.

    
    Angrier?  Too funny, Glen.  Have nothing of substance so go with the
    "mean spirited" angle.
    
    
    

| <<< Note 634.5 by MOLAR::DELBALSO "I (spade) my (dogface)" >>>

| >	Graham is much angrier than Dole. Not good.

| 'Splain?

	Everytime he talks, he sounds pissed off at someone. It doesn't matter
if it is a dem or a repub. He's just pissed.

| Is this the "mebbe too far right" part?

	That might have something to do with why he is so angry. 

    
    re: .8
    
    Clear, concise and inane...
    
    Keep up the good work!!!
    
    
    :)
    

    
    re: .3
    
    Glenn,
    
     Kinda strong sentiments for someone who has no stake in the
    matter/outcome... no?
    

Entered politics as a Democrat and reached chairman in at least one
committee. He was removed from that post in the 80's because he was
seen as a spy for the republicans, this because he supported many of
the things the repubs proposed, against democratic party line.

He switched parties when it was clear his beliefs were no longer supported
by the dems (read: The party has changed from its core beliefs of decades ago),
this during a time when the repubs were in the minority (no small decision).

Since then he has been a supporter of conservative fiscal proposals and
family based social solutions. He often butts heads with republican leaders
when they compromise away their core positions and beliefs.

He has been remarkably consistant for a politician.

He has been in Congress long enough to know how the system works. He has used
his office to stop legislation that he felt strongly against (which would
otherwise have passed). He has demonstrated a consistant character, voting 
pattern and an ability to lead in the environment of confrontation.

Doug. 

    and the pro-lifers like him cuz he looks like a fetus.

    Well, seems to me there's a lot of experts on things Canadian who don't
    have a stake in them. Just returning the favour.

RE: .11

So Doug, you like him then?

    re: .12
    
    Great!
    
    Bob

re: GENRAL::RALSTON

> So Doug, you like him then?

  Undecided. I like many things about him, the least of which is his ability
  to follow his convictions rather than compromise them away. I have far more
  respect for a man which switches from the majority to the minority than
  that which would wait till he became the minority to switch to the majority.

  At any rate, he's head and shoulders above the current CIC.

Come to think of it, he surely is in the best position to criticize the
opposition having been a member of that party for quite some time.

Combine that with all the recent converts and the repubs should easily
discredit the publicized intent of the dem party.

Question is, will they?

    Problems with Gramm:

    .May have a difficult time defeating Clinton because many people
     think he's too far right (not me!!). Many people believe he's
     too close to the NRA (not me)...the press has made a big thing
     about how the NRA is his largest contributer. This will turn-off
     a lot of moderates.

    .Promised to balance the budget in his first term or else not seek
     re-election. This is a silly thing to say....largely because:

    .When asked what cuts in entitlement programs he would make
     beyond the current Republican proposals for Medicare/Medicaid he
     said "none".

    
    Just the same...he's on my list of possible candidates.

    						Ed

 Isn't gramm a cracker?

 >> Isn't gramm a cracker?
    
    I thought he was a metric unit of mass.  We'll have to see about the
    density factor, however, if we have to turn down the volume.
    
    Chris

    
    Phil Gramm.
    
    Totally unelectable.
    
    Next.

    
    	Well, that settles that.
    

				He's got my vote!
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    there's that little cracker!

    
    Wooden Aggie.  My p_name for this man is "Klaghorn".

I would have problems voting for Phil Gramm for about anything.

Like most of the Republicans,  he wishes to establish religion in public
schools.

He is more anti-environment than most of the Republicans

I do not think he could do a good job with foreign policy.


On the plus side

He is more supportive of science funding than most of the Republicans.

    He does no want to "establish" religion on public schools.  Allowing
    voluntary prayer, or a moment of silence, is not establishing religion.

    
    .13
    
    so bitter. why are you so bitter???? did you run out of IPA's
    perhaps???? lighten up mr personality.

    
                      ^`.
       ^_              \  \                  SHADUP!!!
       \ \             {   \                    /
       {  \           /     `~~~--__           /
       {   \___----~~'              `~~-_     /
        \                         /// `  `~.
        / /~~~~-, ,__.    ,      ///  __,,,,)
        \/      \/    `~~~;   ,---~~-_`~=
                         /   /
                        '._.'
    

    <-  Let me get that apostrophe for you.  And I've bRonco horse
    remover to get rid of the cologne too.

    
    rough crowd lately, like sharks at feeding time.

>Like most of the Republicans,  he wishes to establish religion in public
>schools.
    
    This reads incredibly McCarthyesque. Seriously. Upon what do you base
    this assessment, his support for a moment of silence at the beginning
    of the schoolday during which children who want to pray may pray and
    the rest are required to actually respect that? I've gotta admit, that
    does seem like the end of the world as we know it.

Like it or not, I see a bit of a double standard here.
Many of us who are pro 2nd amendment see any small incremental infringement
as a wedge, a foot in the door, which inevitably leads to greater and 
greater infringements - and we know what the ultimate goal is from the start.

It could be that, if a group/party/candidate/whatever has theocratic
leanings, they would start in just this manner.

    I would agree that if one is predisposed to a phobia of governmental
    imposition of institutionalized religion, one might view anything short
    of overt hostility towards religion as being the camel's nose. I
    disagree with such a position, but I can understand it. The 2nd
    amendment, on the other hand, has been under open attack for decades.

    Gramm,
    
    1.  Promoted the Viet Nam conflict while using a student deferrment to
    avoid being drafted, and did not volunteer.
    
    2.  like Dole and Gingrich, divorced his first wife who had gone
    through the lean times with him as soon as he became successful.  
    
    3.  Proponent of the Gramm Gingrich bill to confiscate all assets of
    anyone and their family who is convicted of simple possession of any
    illegal substance.  
    
    meg

>    1.  Promoted the Viet Nam conflict while using a student deferrment to
>    avoid being drafted, and did not volunteer.

Do you have any documentation on this, Meg? I question it only because due
to Gramm's age, I find it highly unlikely that he was susceptible to the
draft for VN.

He's only 52, so in 1965 he would have been 22.

/john

Holy Smokes! I would have guessed he was over sixty!

The man has not aged well, at all.

    
    jjack
    
    i've met you, I wouldn't worry.
    
    He actually admitted it in "60 Minutes"  
    His excuse was thhat being college educated he would have wound up with
    a desk job.  Tell that to my cousin, who was drafted with three years
    into his degree.  He was a Ranger and helicoptered in to god awful
    places in VN.
    
    meg

RE: 634.34 by WAHOO::LEVESQUE "memory canyon"

The first amendment is under open attack.  Look at the attempts to put the
Bible's story of origin into science classrooms,  for one.


Phil

>Look at the attempts to put the Bible's story of origin into science 
    >classrooms,  for one.
    
    Your town's inability to elect a school board without a zealous agenda
    has not been replicated on a national scope. It appears to this
    observer that you've become over-sensitized to this issue and are
    seeing spooks in every dark closet and under every bed. A moment of
    silence at the beginning of the day is not the same as forced
    recitation of government provided prayer, your repeated assertions to
    the contrary notwithstanding.

    This is what happens when you base your theology on "This Present
    Darkness" and "Piercing The Darkness".

    re: .35
    
    Meg,
    
    >3.  Proponent of the Gramm Gingrich bill to confiscate all assets of
    >anyone and their family who is convicted of simple possession of any
    >illegal substance.  
    
    Do you have an HB number for this?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bob
    

Anyone have details on Gramm's flat tax plan relative to Forbes'?

RE: 634.41 by WAHOO::LEVESQUE "memory canyon"

> Your town's inability to elect a school board without a zealous agenda
> has not been replicated on a national scope.

Yet.


> A moment of silence at the beginning of the day is not the same as forced
> recitation of government provided prayer,

No.  The Constitutional Amendment that Gramm says is needed is one to allow
local government provided "voluntary" prayer in public schools.  That would
require an Amendment to the United States Constitution,  of course,  as the
First Amendment states "Congress shall make no law respecting an
establishment of religion",  and the Fourteenth Amendment extends this
prohibition to the States,  and thereby to local governments.

As I understand the United States Constitution,  a scheduled moment of
silence in public schools is probably allowable under the first Amendment.
Unless the State Constitution has something to say on the issue,  as does
New Hampshire's.


Phil

    
    
    Coming to your screen soon..
    
    Phil Hays "Closet of anxieties"
    
    
    Binkley couldn't hold a candle to you, guy!!!
    

    
    After digesting all that's been said and done, I've decided to go with 
    Phil Gramm...
    
    
    
     

   he's a little tall for you.

	Milady...too funny.

				You'll be sorry, you cigar mangler you!
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    Gasp!!! However did I know...!!!!!
    

    
      The La. results indicate that Phil is in trouble.  Buchanan, not
     even trying to be appealing to centrists (which Phil is), captured
     all of the right-to-life, and all of the anti-affirmative-action
     votes, plus some intellectual conservatives as well.  This is a
     state the Republicans will certainly carry no matter who they
     nominate - even the Democratic senator, Breaux, is firmly
     right-to-life, and La. legislatures have consistently tested the
     extent of Roe-v-Wade by passing bipartisan laws placing various
     restrictions on abortion (some of these passed SCOTUS, others not).
    
      The new GOP governor of Louisiana was appreciative of Pat B for
     coming to campaign for him.  Phil comes from right across the border,
     but his more moderate conservativism didn't sell here against Pat.
     The difference is anger.  Louisiana voters are angry at the Federal
     government, even its inside conservative critics like Gramm.  Which
     means it will be a tough year for "moderate conservatism".
    
      bb

I heard that only 5% of La. Repubs voted in the caucuses.  Apparently the
rules were pretty esoteric.

    There were only 42 polling places in the entire state for the causus,
    and they were only open 4 hours apiece, and not the same 4 hours.  Time
    periods varied locally.  One had to be commited and knowledgable to
    vote.
    
    /jim

> One had to be commited and knowledgable to vote.                    
    
    As indicated by the outcome.

    Who cares whether Buchanon won in Louisiana? It means nothing.

> One had to be commited and knowledgable to vote.

Perhaps one had to have an effective organization to get out the vote for
one's candidate.

    
      Gramm will withdraw after NH, next Wednesday.  You heard it here
     first.
    
      bb

    i like how Phil says iiiaaawaaahh.

Sounds like Aow-wah to me.

    Ah-oh-wah, much like Oh-hi-yah.  Not to be confoosed with Ten-sea,
    and Wah-oh-min.

    it's more like aaahhh-ooohhhh-waahhh, cuz he really holds
    on to each syllable for a long time.

    Phil's a goner...Now maybe he can get back to concentrating on being a
    Senator again.
    
    Bob

    
    KuhNAAAAAAAtuh.
    

    kah-nah-dah.  emphaziz on syllable #2.

    Not as silly as the way Americans pronounce Kanata.

    "wherezat"?  Emphaziz on the blank look.

    Near Ah-doe-wah and Knee-pee-in.

    Don't forget Keerup!

    
    I know *I* never will.
    
    

There are lots of great place names in Quebec.  Kuujjuaq, Quaqtaq,
Kangiqsujuaq, Kangiqsualujjuaq.

    alas, the first casualty after iowa, 'ol phil has dropped out.

    his family must be devasted...

	What a nice Valentine's Day present he is giving us. 

                       When were they vasted?

    Bonnie must be gleeful that a type-o-fetus is out of the race now!

    well, that's the way the cracker crumbles...

                               That's the way the cookie crumbles.
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    not only is he out the race, he seems to have lost his identity.

    I just asked my counterpart here why she wouldn't vote for Phil Gram.
    
    She gives me this look and says...
    
    
    Because he looks like Yoda.
    
    Now we know why Gram dropped out of the race.
    
    

    "Eeeh heheheheh, remember, a republican's strength flooooows from the
    force."

    Contwol..Contwol....YOU MUST LEARN CONTWOL!!!!!

    Elmer Fudd was a Jedi?

    may the farce be with ewe.

> 'ol phil has dropped out.

Probably little point in attending the rally Bob Smith had scheduled 
for tomorrow evening in Manchester, then ...

    
    
    Sheeeeeeesh...
    
    
    Now I have more deciding to do...
    
    
    I'll have to go back and see what Alan Keyes has to say....
    

    Phil Gramm cannot.
    In good conscience.
    Ask.
    The American people.
    For their continued.
    Support.
    God Bless Y'awl!