Conference back40::soapbox

    I'm sure you can still get tickets for the Javelin Catching heats.

    
    O-LYM-PIAAAAaaaaaa...
    

         The Kleptathalon ?  (Editorial in The Lowell Sun)
      -------------------------------------------------------
    Here's one Olympic event for which no gold medal will be awarded : fast
  hands and tight fingers.
    The problem confronting the Atlanta hosts of next summer's games is
  what to do with athletes getting unauthorized 100 percent discounts on
  merchandise or, as it is more commonly described, shoplifting.
    The city has already had a couple of brushes with shoplifting athletes at
  pre-Olympic events.
    Officially, the Atlanta Olympic organizers say that athletes nabbed while
  stuffing designer jeans into their sweat pants will receive no special
  treatment.  However, there is a certain nudge-nudge, wink-wink factor here.
    Instead, a wayward foreign athlete will, after consultation with his
  team authorities, be treated to a fast dash to the airport and a long
  flight hime.
    And that is the correct course of action.  Send 'em home.  Fast.  It's
  the sporting thing to do.
    We welcome the amateur athletes - not the professional thieves.

    re: .0
    
    Did you HAVE to do this?????  Everything has already been so
    commercialized, that I don't even consider it an athletic event...it's
    a circus:-(
    
    Bob

    
    You can run but you can't hide.
    

    re: .5
    
    I've done pretty good with the OJ circus, why not this?
    
    Bob

    
    Well, it's a long shot, but if you put some effort into it, you
    may be able to clear the hurdles.  I'll relay your concerns.
    

    Well, I'm looking forward to seeing Canada win a drug free gold in the
    men's 100 meter dash.

    Put this Ben Johnson thing to bed for good.

    I just received notification that I shall be in the 1996 Olympics,
    as a spectator - mountain biking and soccer.  Flight reservations 
    are made too.  My athletic son will be almost 6 and this event should 
    make a lasting impression on him.
    
    As anyone who follows a sport knows, being there adds a dimension that
    the TV can't touch.
    
    Tickets are still available according to Monday's mailing - archery,
    equestrian, soccer, boxing, field hockey, ...  So if you really want
    to be there, you can.

    
    OK, we'll all stay at MadMike's house!
    
    
    
    

    I'm planning on leaving town for the duration!
    

    
    Rent your digs while you're gone.
    

    Are they going to have bowling this year?  Now there's a real sport, I
    say.  Even better, synchronized bowling...

    How about snooker? I'd like that.

    
    Snookums?
    
    

    Yes, poopsie sweets?

    Wasn't there an old movie character called Baby Snookums?
    
    

    
    Hey, at least Bowling or Snooker are more of a sport than 
    Figure Skating or Synchronized Swimming!
    

    Apples and oranges comparison.

    
    Nonsense.  Anything that requires subjective "judgement" is no
    sport in my books.  Sports have scores, or times, or other clearly
    measurable results.
    
    Figure Skating and Synchronized Swimming are performance arts, and
    belong with Opera and Ballet, or at least with Modern Dance.
    
    John:  1
    Glenn: 0
    
    

    
    But 'sports' should require athletic ability, stamina.  Figure skating
    and synchronized swimming do; snooker and bowling don't.  Therefore,
    figure skating and synchronized swimming are sports; snooker and
    bowling are pastimes.
    
    John  1
    Glenn 0
    Deb   1
    
    

    
    Snooker or Bowling require at least as much physical or "athletic"
    ability as Archery or Pistol Shooting, which are both considered
    sports.
    
    Ballet requires considerably more stamina than all four.
    
    John:  2
    Glenn: 0
    Deb:   1
    

    A fat archer can shoot the bowler, the dancer, the figure skater and
    the snooker.
    
    John:   2
    Glenn:  0
    Deb:    1
    Archer: 4

    
    <-----  Foul!!!
    

    
    Figure skating and synchronized swimming are in the same respective
    families as speed skating and competitive swimming, which no-one would
    dispute are sports.  Figure Skating and Synchronized Swimming merely
    combine beauty with the sport.
    
    Snooker and bowling are related to what sports?  
    
    Furthermore, while archery and pistol shooting take skill, precision, 
    and strength, snooker and bowling can be played by fat drunk
    chainsmokers who don't even break a sweat.
    
    John   2
    Glenn  0
    Deb    3 
    
    
    

    
    >Figure skating and synchronized swimming are in the same respective
    >families as speed skating and competitive swimming...
    
    The point being, however, that speed skating and competitive swimming
    have empirically demonstrable results (skater/swimmer X finished 1st,
    Y finished 2nd. etc.).  Figure skating and synchro swimming lack this
    objective result.
    
    >Snooker and bowling are related to what sports?  
    
    Non-sequiter
    
    >Furthermore, while archery and pistol shooting take skill, precision, 
    >and strength, snooker and bowling can be played by fat drunk
    >chainsmokers who don't even break a sweat.
    
    Ahhh, yes, but not played *well*...
    
    John   4
    Glenn  0
    Deb    3 
    

    
    >The point being, however, that speed skating and competitive swimming
    >have empirically demonstrable results (skater/swimmer X finished 1st,
    >Y finished 2nd. etc.).  Figure skating and synchro swimming lack this
    >objective result.
    
    AHA!  WRONG!  8^)  You lose a point.  Figure skating DOES have
    objective results - the skater's program is submitted to the judges
    beforehand, and its difficulty is calculated - then there are mandatory 
    deductions for certain errors (downgrading or completely skipping 
    planned maneuvers, falling, stumbling, etc.).
    
    >Non-sequiter
    
    Non sequitUr.  Spelling and punctuation error, you lose another point 8^).
    

    John   2
    Glenn  0
    Deb    5
    
     
    

    
    >AHA!  WRONG!  8^)  You lose a point.  Figure skating DOES have
    >objective results - the skater's program is submitted to the judges
    >beforehand, and its difficulty is calculated...
    
    Then why is more than one judge required, huh?  HUH?  And why is s/he
    called a "judge" anyway, as opposed to a "goalkeeper"?  I get my point
    back.
    
    >Non sequitUr.  Spelling and punctuation error, you lose another point 8^).
    
    Fair enough, but I'll be watching your spelling closely from now on...

    John   3
    Glenn  0
    Deb    5
    

    
    You can have half the point back 8^).
    
    More than one judge is required because they also judge subjectively on
    the beauty of the performance, not just its difficulty.  You've got to
    have a panel and average out the results for fairness with that sort of
    thing.
    
    What about gymnastics?  Don't they have a panel of judges (I don't know
    if this is true or not)?  Wouldn't you say that gymnastics is a sport
    also?
    
    I don't think you can define sports as easily as who came in first,
    considering that when the Greeks started this whole Olympic Games
    thing, the competitors competed naked so the spectators could see the
    beauty of their bodies and movements.
    
    John   2.5
    Glenn  0
    Deb    7
    
                               

>    considering that when the Greeks started this whole Olympic Games
>    thing, the competitors competed naked so the spectators could see the
>    beauty of their bodies and movements.
>    
>    John   2.5
>    Glenn  0
>    Deb    7

I'm confused, then. Does Glenn wend up with +1 or -1 for dropping trou?
    
                               

    
    HEY, Jack, PLAY or get off the field!!!
    
    ;^)
    
    P.S.  Dropping trou earns one point, but one time only.
    

What. This isn't a spectator sport?

    
    Full body contact.
    
    I hope.
    

    
    >You can have half the point back 8^).
    
    Hey, I don't question the questionable way you award yourself points!  
    THE FULL POINT IS MINE!
    
    >More than one judge is required because they also judge subjectively on
    >the beauty of the performance...
    
    BINGO!!  You lose a point, and I gain one, 'cause you scored on your own
    goal.  Who cares about beauty, sports fans or artists?
    
    >What about gymnastics?
    
    Not a sport.  :^)
    
    >...the competitors competed naked so the spectators could see the
    >beauty of their bodies and movements.
    
    I'm OPPOSED to that sort of thing!
    
    John   4
    Glenn  0
    Deb    6
                               

    
    By the way...
    
    pastime - n.  1: a pleasant recreation or hobby
                  2: a sport or game
    
    You lose another point!
    
    John   4
    Glenn  0
    Deb    5
                               

    Hey John... take it easy would ya?  If figure skating and synchro
    swimming were removed from the Olympics, the Canadian medal count would
    probably be cut in half (at least!)

    i understand a new event has been added... LA jury sequestration
    marathon... results to be posted in '97.

       
       !Joan, apparently still in a jetlag-induced stupor, inadvertently
       stumbled across a brilliant idea in .21: include opera as an
       Olympic event.  
       
       Can you not just imagine it, the leading prime donne (and tenors,
       too!) from all over, all on the same well-reinforced stage,
       singing their guts out against each other.  I'd even share rights
       to the idea with the Collins character (shame you didn't get Colin
       as a first name), except that Schickele (I'm sure I misspelled
       that) thought of it first.

    
    HEY!  Boston is in the same time zone as Toronto.
    
    I'm simply stuporous *all* of the time.
    

    
    >BINGO!!  You lose a point, and I gain one, 'cause you scored on your own
    >goal.  Who cares about beauty, sports fans or artists?
    
    Wrong!  I get my point back, and you lose three.  I said they ALSO
    judge the beauty of the performance.  And as far as the query 'who
    cares about beauty, sports fans or artists', I seem to recall several
    sports announcer statements along the lines of "Oh, a glove save, and 
    a beauty!".
    
    Just about EVERYONE admires something that is attractive much more 
    than something that is merely utilitarian.
    

    John   1
    Glenn  0
    Deb    19
                               
                                              

    
    >...I seem to recall several
    >sports announcer statements along the lines of "Oh, a glove save, and 
    >a beauty!".
    
    So?  They don't get extra points for "beautiful glove saves".
    
    >Just about EVERYONE admires something that is attractive much more 
    >than something that is merely utilitarian.
    
    Well, let's just add a "swimsuit" competition to the Olympics, 
    then (ooo err).                
    
    And you unfairly deducted points from me, so...

    John   20
    Glenn  0
    Deb    19
                               
                                              

       > Just about EVERYONE admires something that is attractive much
       > more than something that is merely utilitarian.
       
       Context is everything, dear lady.  
       
       Suppose, for example, that you found yourself at the Louvre. 
       While you might indeed admire the Mona Lisa for its inimitable
       beauty, you might well admire the less beautiful but more
       utilitarian toilettes had you been walking around for hours and
       needed desperately to pee.

    
    >So?  They don't get extra points for "beautiful glove saves".
    
    Ah, but no-one said they did, and they don't in skating, either - it's 
    just part of the scoring.  My point was merely that beauty is admired
    in other sports also.  
    
    
    >Well, let's just add a "swimsuit" competition to the Olympics, 
    >then (ooo err).                
    
    Ah, but that's gratuitous and would be judging people solely on
    personal attractiveness, not on athletic ability.  Skating doesn't judge 
    athletes on personal attractiveness - it's the beauty of the athletic 
    performance as well as the athleticness of said performance.
    
    >And you unfairly deducted points from me, so...
    
    Not true, so you lose even more points for such an unkind remark 8^).
    
    John   -15
    Glenn  0
    Deb    42,294,102,229
    
    
    I think you should give up now.
    
                               
                                              

    
    
    >you might well admire the less beautiful but more
    >utilitarian toilettes had you been walking around for hours and
    >needed desperately to pee.
     
    Admire them, nay.  Be happy to see them, definitely 8^).
    
    On the subject of toilettes, though, just check out the bathroom
    fixtures section of any department store - the attractive fixtures are
    much more expensive.  And if you go into the bathroom of any 'nice'
    house, the bathrooms are often very well appointed with gold and
    marble.
    
    A plain white potty would do just as well, but people do seem to want a
    nice bathroom.
      

    
    >John   -15
    >Glenn  0
    >Deb    42,294,102,229
    
    You're cheating!  You have now been disqualified.
    
    I WIN!!!!
                               
    Yay!
                                              

    Somehow I knew I would come in second. At least I get the home version
    of the game and some parting gifts.

    
    > Just about EVERYONE admires something that is attractive much more 
    > than something that is merely utilitarian.

    and of course if you, Ms Deb, are in the area, ALL the men would be 
    admiring, nay standing stuporous, basking in your radiance....
    :-)

    
     John   -15
     Glenn  0
     Deb    42,294,102,229
     Kirby  42,294,102,230
    
    

    8^@

    Anybody else think we should give Kirby a Pepsi bottle and straw?

      Labor Shortages in Atlanta intensify for some industries.

    Security guards, bus drivers and food-service workers are scarce as
 companies gear up for the 1996 Olympics, which start in July. Metropolitan
 Atlanta's unemployment rate is below 5%, but seems even tighter for many
 employers.  As clients clamor to step up security during the Olympics,
 Barton Protective Services Inc, Atlanta, plans to temporarily add some 500
 workers to its 1500-person payroll.  Barton recruits guards from other
 states and offers cash incentives to workers who house them.
    Brick masons remain in high demand as the $500 million Olympic-venue
 construction program continues.  Those earning $13 to $14 an hour two years
 ago now command $17 to $18, says Larry Gellerstedt III of Beers Construction
 Co.  But with the end of the boom now in sight, the run-up in wages and
 costs appears to have peaked, builders say.
    The big question on economists' minds : Where do the thousands of
 Olympic-related workers go after the Games ?

      Nudist Resorts Dress Up For International Tourists 

    Even nudist parks jockey for Olympic profits.  Several in the Southeast
 expand capacity and renovate facilities for 1996.  Hidden Valley Resort in
 Dawsonville, Georgia adds on to its pool area, builds a gift shop and
 remodels its clubhouse.  Bell Acres Recreation Enterprise, known as Bare,
 adds a campground and a 12-person hot tub.  "Europeans are much more
 attuned to the nudist lifestyle," says Evans Bell of the Maysville
 Georgia facility.
    Marketing can be tough, though.  Owners say they have been frustrated
 in efforts to get listed as local attractions in Olympic brochures.  But
 ads on the Internet and in nudist publications are paying off.  Georgia's
 Mountain Creek Grove will offer shuttle transfer to the Games.

    
    
    I wish they would televise more of the equestrian events.  I'd love
    to see the dressage competitions.
    
    Mary
    

    The mountain bike races are to be held at the equestrian center.  It
    could get real messy if the horsey events go 1st.

   Take My Home, Please : Atlanta Homeowners Seek To Cash In On The Games


    Looking to capitalize on a shortage of lodgings, thousands sign up with
 real-estate agents to rent out their houses.  Rates often run from $300
 to $500 per bedroom per night - so even a modest three-bedroom home can
 bring $20,000 or more for the 17-day event.  Some owners offer to work as
 maids and cooks in their own homes.
    Corporate party planners stoke demand for columned mansions in tony
 neighborhoods.  "Everybody's in search of Tara," says Jerry Attkisson,
 president of FJB Corp., an Atlanta brokerage.  "They want to re-create
 'Gone With The Wind,' with a barbecue one night and a ball the other."
 Hundreds of loft apartments are being created in downtown warehouses to
 meet demand.  The rental downside : commissions of up to 45% and income
 taxes erode homeowner's profits.  A newly formed tenants' rights group
 pressures landlords who try to evict tenants and raise rates for the Games.
    

    Some nice kind folks in Atlanta, gave me an official olympic sweatshirt
    a couple of years ago. Some nice rsoul, not sure where, nicked it.
    
    it was a nice shirt too !! 

   Pampered athletes : For the first time, all Olympic Village dorms will be
 air-conditioned.  The village on the Georgia Tech campus will have a hair
 salon, bowling alley, concerts, a shopping mall - and free Big Macs at
 five different MacDonald's.

   The Paralympics, a competition for disabled athletes two weeks after the
 Olympics, will inject $327 million into the state economy, according to a
 study by the Economic Development Institute at Georgia Tech.  The economic
 inflow from the Olympics, meanwhile, will be $5.1 billion, a University
 of Georgia study says.

   More than T-shirts :  Licensees will sell more than $250 million worth of
 Olympic T-shirts, towels, and other items at retail.  But hot sales in the
 Southeat haven't spread yet to the rest of the country, some licensees say.
 Among the goods : a limited-edition Faberge egg that sells for $5000.

   Some will lose money when the games come to town.  The widely expected
 Olympic windfall won't benefit everyone.  Many downtown businesses say
 company earnings will fall when thoroughfares are closed.  Accountant
 Robert H. Woosley estimates billings at his firm, Frazier & Deeter, will
 dip 10% to 15%.  Employees will be asked to work as early as 5:30 a.m.
 to avoid traffic, but they will also leave early, work from home and
 schedule outside meetings - all of which tend to cut productivity, Mr.
 Woolsey says.
   "We're expecting an enormous disruption in our practice," says Jacinto
 del Mazo, who heads a downtown physicians' group.  He says many of his
 elderly patients won't brave the crowds to visit his office.  Like others,
 the medical group will transfer some of its business to a suburban satellite
 office.  Many businesses encourage workers to take vacation time.  Georgia-
 Pacific Corp. will make do without about 300 employees it allowed to
 volunteer for the Games.

   Tiny Hogansville Georgia mulls an unofficial name change to "Holstenville"
 when German beer maker Holsten-Brauerai AG occupies the local inn and
 several antebellum homes next summer.

   Limousines for vistors are scarce and pricey : one fleet charges $2200
 a day for a 10-seater.

    
    I'm planning to make the trip down next summer.... Got an invite
    already!!! :)
    
     I don't plan on ordering/purchasing tickets... just gonna wing it and
    see what's available... more fun that way, and I'll see events I
    wouldn't normally...

    My father was one of the lucky ones and got tickets to some of the
    events.  He'll come down and take my daughters to them.  I plan on just
    "winging" it.  If there is an event that I want to see, I'll just go on
    down with cash in hamd and see if I can score a ticket.  If not, no big
    deal.  Now if I could only figure out a way to rent my soon to be
    built tool shed out for big bucks...
    
    Dan

    
    I got a phone call about 2 weeks ago from the Olympic people. They
    called and said that they sent my ticket confirmation, but it was sent
    back to them. I had to give them my address again (when I looked at the
    copy of the ticket request form I sent in, the address was correct).
    They said that I will be receiving the confirmation in about 1 week.
    After 2 weeks and no confirmation, I called them. After many recorded
    messages, wrong numbers, and being put on hold for about 10 minutes 
    (they don't use an 800 number and I am calling from MA), I finally got
    to talk to a customer rep. After they verified my information they
    checked and found that my 2nd confirmation was also returned to them.
    When they read back to me the information on the form I sent in, it was
    all correct. They then confirmed to me over the phone that I was
    getting tickets to baseball, judo (finals), and boxing (did not get 
    basketball).
    
    This whole ticket process (pay before you know what you get, no refunds
    unless you don't get the tickets issued, and no guarantee of consecutive 
    seating) has me a bit worried. All the events I supposedly have been
    confirmed for (not official until I get the confirmation letter in the
    mail) are for 4 tickets each (me, my wife, my 12 year old and my 9 year
    old sons). If we don't get to sit together, the Olympic experience will 
    not be what I was hoping for and no way are my children sitting away
    from me. The letter of confirmation is also just a letter. The tickets
    are to be coming in the spring. If they screw up my tickets as they
    have the confimation letter, it could become a real pain.
    
    Luckily I have a free place to stay with my inlaws about an hour
    outside of Atlanta. I am planning a 2 week vacation around the
    Olympics and my family is psyched about it, so I hope this initial
    frustration with the ticket requesting process does not carry over into
    having to adjust our vacation plans.
    
    Patrick

    Hope things turn out for you - I went to the Montreal Olympics in '76
    and it sounds like the ticket ordering process was fairly similar. Dad
    could only get 4 tickets per event so that meant that 2 of us in our
    family of 6 took turns doing something else. Saw a weeks worth of track
    and field and loved every minute.  Bet your boys will too.

   Trial run raises a host of questions for Atlanta's Olympics
  -------------------------------------------------------------
   By Jere Longman, New York Times

   ATLANTA- The Summer Olympics begin a month from today, but the anticipation
 and excitement are tempered by continuing questions about Atlanta's
 preparedness to host the centennial Games.
   While major construction is nearly completed, and chief organizer Billy
 Payne continues to insist that preparations are "on time and on budget,"
 the ongoing U.S. track and field trials have raised important concerns
 about the heat, drug testing, transportation, and technology.
   And despite the $1.7 billion price tag these Olympics carry, visitors
 may be struck by the curious lack of grandeur.  Compared with previous
 Olympics, there is a distinct bargain-basement feel to the Olympic
 Stadium and the entire Games, a sense of impermanence that a coat of
 paint, the hanging of bunting, and the planting of trees and shrubs may
 not be able to camouflage.
   For his part, Payne, who turned an improbable dream into the reality of
 Atlanta's playing host to the Olympics, continues with unflagging optimism
 to say that the Games will be the most successful ever.
   While acknowledging that downtown streets must be paved, sidewalks must
 be cemented and some $150 million must be raised, Payne said yesterday,
 "We're sitting where we want to be."
   "It's gone from nervousness and fatigue to excitement," Payne said.
   Still, there are more than a few kinks to be worked out.
   Some athletes have complained that while other stadiums have an adjacent
 warm-up track, the Olympic Stadium warm-up track is a half-mile away.
 Athletes must leave the heat of the warm-up track, spend 10 minutes in an
 air-conditioned bus to the stadium, then return to the heat.  Some have
 said they feel this climate change is partly responsible for the number
 of muscle cramps that have occurred during the trials.
   "Since they built the stadium from the ground up and they were tearing
 down houses all over the place, you'd think they would find a few more
 to tear down and build a practice track," said Carl Lewis, the winner of
 eight Olympic gold medals.
   Payne said that organizers thought it was inappropriate to displace
 families living near the stadium or on land that had been set aside for
 redevelopment to build a practice track.
   "We're dealing with issues of choice," Payne said, adding that neither
 "Mr. Lewis nor any of the athletes live in, grew up in, or have equity in"
 the neighborhoods surrounding the stadium.
   Bob Kersee, the coach and husband of three-time Olympic champion Jackie
 Joyner-Kersee, said that it was "ridiculous" for athletes to be spending
 long periods exposed to the sun and 100-plus-degree temperatures on the
 track without any protective shelter.
   Payne and other Olympic organizers said that shelters for both athletes
 and spectators would be made available during the Games, along with an
 increased number of misting devices that will be placed at outdoor arenas
 such as track and field, and field hockey.
   The awkward bus system at the track raises questions about the vast
 transportation plan designed to accomodate 2 million visitors for the Games.
   During the Olympics, traffic will essentially be banned downtown.
 Spectators will park at perimeter lots and be bused to the various
 competitions.
   Track athletes said that a 5- or 10-minute taxi ride between a downtown
 hotel and the Olympic Stadium is taking 20 minutes to an hour on a bus
 during the Olympic trials.
   Payne said the routing from the athletes' village will be more direct
 during the Games.
   Other areas still to be worked out include technological bugs in the
 results system at the Olympic Stadium.  Glitches in the Swatch timing,
 IBM Computers and Xerox copying systems have held up the distribution of
 results at the track trials for up to an hour and a half for some events.

 

    while living in atlanta i, too, was struck by the 
    curious lack of grandeur.

   Why don't they just leave the air-conditioning off in the bus?

   >Why don't they just leave the air-conditioning off in the bus?
    
     Sounds like a good idea, but they should have had a practice area next
    to the stadium. Not having it demonstrates they chose an inappropriate
    venue.

           <<< Note 553.66 by WAHOO::LEVESQUE "show us the team!" >>>
    
>  but they should have had a practice area next
>  to the stadium. Not having it demonstrates they chose an inappropriate
>  venue.

	well yeah, obviously.

    I've always believed that Atlanta was going to be a "difficult"
    venue at best, if not outright inappropriate.  I can't wait to see
    the spin control when things start going awry this summer; it'll
    probably be at least as entertaining as the games themselves.
    
    Chris

    Damn you Yankees!!  8^)    This is a conspiracy, I tell you.  Sports
    Illustrated prints some quote (that may have been taken out of context)
    in which Donovan Bailey (Canadian and world champion in the 100m, in 
    case you didn't know - apparently our PM has no idea who he is!) claims
    that "Canada is as blatently racist as the United States" and now
    there's a big broohaha in all the papers.  
    
    I think it was just a ploy on the Yankee journalists part to distract
    Donovan from winning the gold and erasing the never-ending stigma of the 
    Ben Johnson scandel!

    agreed.

>         <<< Note 553.70 by TROOA::BUTKOVICH "chairman of the bored" >>>

>    I think it was just a ploy on the Yankee journalists part to distract
>    Donovan ...

	so you don't think he actually said it?

    Who knows?  You can't believe everything you read.  Apparently Bailey
    won't hold a news conference to discuss it because he wants to try and
    keep his focus on the 100m final.  That'll be hard when I'm sure he'll
    be asked about it over and over again.  Ben Johnson really screwed
    things up for the few elite athletes we have in Canada.  Imagine
    winning the World Championship and the first question somebody asks you
    is about the Johnson fiasco.

>         <<< Note 553.73 by TROOA::BUTKOVICH "chairman of the bored" >>>

>    Who knows?  You can't believe everything you read.  Apparently Bailey
>    won't hold a news conference to discuss it because he wants to try and
>    keep his focus on the 100m final.

	did you read that somewhere?

    <----  8^)     guilty as charged.... however the fact that no press
    conference has been held in the last couple of days leads me to believe
    it.

    
    	I don't know about you, but I read it in .73.
    
    	Please try and follow along, Diane.
    

>         <<< Note 553.75 by TROOA::BUTKOVICH "chairman of the bored" >>>

>    <----  8^)     guilty as charged.... however the fact that no press
>    conference has been held in the last couple of days leads me to believe
>    it.

	I have no trouble believing that he doesn't want to hold a 
	press conference.  It's the _reason_ that might be in question. ;>

    The commercialism of the "amateur" Olympics and its infinite parasites,
    as bad as it's been in the last few Olympics, has finally pegged my
    meter this time.  You can't go anywhere, read any newspaper or
    magazine, listen to the radio, or watch any TV without getting
    inundated.  Cripes, you can't even watch "Jeopardy" without getting
    hit up.
    
    I'm going to hide somewhere, and I'm not coming out until this whole
    greedfest is in the past.
    
    Chris

 re .78



 I'm going to do the same, I think.  

I plan to be underwater for a lot of it.

Me and my buddies, Larry and Barry Cuda.

    I will be watching the 100M final, like millions of other Canadians.
    Put this Ben Johnson thing behind us for good.

    isn't it jonson?

    .82
    
    I'm not your son, and I don't know this Jon person.

   .82   oph, please stop mentioning what's-his-name.  it's very
	 painful for the canadian noters, you see.

    I guess since you guys win so many gold medals you couldn't relate to
    what a let-down it was for us! 8^)
    

    We are also a small country and it did bring much disgrace especially
    after the inquiry that followed.

    
    It's nice to know that there are still countries where disgrace is
    considered an issue.
    

    oh yes, yes, i know.  canadians are all noble folk and we're
    scum here in america.  let's all kill ourselves.
  

    
    	We'll let Jack Martin go 1st.
    
    	But fear not ... we're right behind you, Jack!!
    

    <waves passport>

    Thank you...your honor!

make it happen!

Di, aren't you of French-Canadian ancestry?  If so, you don't need to kill
yourself.  A lobotomy will do.

    Eh canuck, go away or we will taunt you some more.

    Anyways, I was listening to a doctor on As It Happens on CBC radio last
    night and he was saying that only the least sophisticated dopers will
    be caught as the sophisticated ones can only be caught through blood
    tests. In Atlanta, only urine will be analyzed.

    Apparently there is some drug that can boost hemoglobin by almost 40%.

blood doping is generally a (successful) effort to introduce a
chemical (of which there are many) into the blood stream that 
allows the blood to carry more oxygen.

there will be, as always, many athletes that do this and won't
get caught because each year new "masking" agents are developed
that make the current detection techniques obsolete. So each 
year the chemists must develop new tests to get around the masking
improvements only to be faced with the same problem. 

This is a fulltime job for these folks. Each year literally
dozens of chemicals are banned by the various worldwide sports
organizations.

    And the score is 2 athletes already sent home and one being
    investigated.  Interestingly, the one under investigation (Italian
    woman) tested positive for traces of a substance that (she claims)
    came from herbal tea.

    
      So this starts tomorrow night ?  Does anybody have an Olympic
     TV schedule, for those of us with no lives ?
    
      Also, have they written any new pageant-type horn music, or are
     we gonna hafta listen to that same set of Olympic themes ?
    
      bb

    First event is the "Long Distance Cup Pee"  Canada is favoured.
    I hear they can hit a beer can from 20yds.

-1 where do you think the term "hoser" came from?

    
    bb,
    
    if you get the 'tv guide' (the real one, not the ones included in some
    newspapers), there will ge an olympic guide in the issue that is out
    now (july 20-26...if you get it delivered, it should arrive today).
    
    
    -raq
    

        Celine Dion is the opening act. Quite an honour for that little
    half-pint Qu�becoise.

    She'll need a bigger cup then?

    Bluuurrggghhhhhhh.... I can't stand Celine Dion.  You guys are welcome
    to her!
    
    You might find a schedule on http://www.Olympics.nbc.com
    
    I'll be flipping stations between NBC and CBC for the next couple of
    weeks.  I love this stuff.  ( I know, I know - I need a life!)

    I heard on the local radio this morning that she is going to take a
    break from the entertainment industry, and concentrate on enlarging her
    family.
    
    Entertainment of a different kind hey!!

    I saw her in an interview an she is obviously tired of show business.
    She looked tired and worn out and hardened. Good for her if she takes a
    break.

    <---  good for us, don't you mean?  8^)

    Well, I don't listen to her either, but I admire her as a fellow
    Quebecer.

  .108  yeah, i know what you mean.  i admired albert disalvo as a 
        fellow bostonian.

    But you didn't listen to him?

    Celine Dion kicks butt!!
    She rules!!

    
      For the first time in the 100 years of the modern Olympics,
     no live doves will be released.  Animal rights activists succeeded
     in jawboning the Atlanta organizers into substituting kids running
     onto the field with dove puppets mounted on sticks.
    
      bb

    
    	Maybe they could dump a few hundred pounds of dead doves onto
    	the ground from a cargo plane instead?
    

'scuse me, but:

When did Doves need protection?

yah, releasing them by the hundreds probably doesn't do them a heck of a
lot of good, but then again, it's probably pretty minor compared to all the
other things we've done to their habitat.

     
    
     No Doves! But they release 100's of balloon's into the air to fall
    back to earth and rot,pollute and be eaten by small animals that will
    die from this garbage. But no Doves boy will I sleep better tonight!
    
     What a crock!
    
    Dave

    puh-leez.
    
    Watch, 3 or 4 kids will be trampled to death and impaled with those
    dove-stick things so we could save a few doves.  

> When did Doves need protection?
> 
> yah, releasing them by the hundreds probably doesn't do them a heck of a
> lot of good...
    
    It probably doesn't do the audience below them a heck of a lot
    of good, either.
    
    Chris

The real reason why doves are being released was detailed in the
investigative reporting that Jeff Foxworth has done.

He concluded that if'n a flock of doves were let loose, the shotguns
would be coming outta the pickups real fast.

TTom

Foxworthy?

    Don't know if this has been discussed before or not. 
    On the news this morning, and last night, a lot of athletes, are
    complaining about the transport to and from the various events. 
    
    There are reports of coaches not turning up at all, and sometimes even
    3 hours late. 
    

 Question my son and I had whilst watching (which I had intended not to do,
 but he was enjoying it)..when a team wins a gold medal, does each member 
 get one, or is just one medal awarded and if that's the case, to whom does
 it go?



 Jim

    <---  each player receives a medal.  I don't think the coach does,
    though.
    
    I think they should change the "Parade of Athletes" to the "Race of
    Athletes" - see which team can get into the stadium and to their
    assigned area the fastest.... man, I thought that was never going to
    end!
    
    And, I was wondering, just what exactly is "Parkinson's disease" and
    can it be attributed back to Ali's boxing career?
    
    Another observation - could John Tesh possibly be more of a "homer" -
    yeesh!  

    
    i am not exactly thrilled with the coverage of the games.  why can't
    they just show the events one at a time???  do they really need
    to cut back and forth between whatever events they are covering.  it
    took forever to see the end of the women's road race...
    

	raq, when they switch coverage, they stop the event that is going on,
until the coverage comes back on. So you didn't miss anything!!! :-)

    That's the problem with covering parallel events in a serial medium,
    Raq. 

    I am failry pleased with the coverage so far with the exception of the
    commercial breaks.  Sheesh.  Two minutes of coverage and fifteen
    minutes of McDonald's, Nike, Kodak.......
    
    Brian

    
      The Olympic TV audience is unique for sports, because it is
     heavily female.  The choice between "straight" sports coverage,
     which men prefer, and the "collage + human interest" approach
     was elaborately market-tested.  It doubles the female audience,
     and while the guys grumble, they stay tuned.  In fact, the
     "fade to vignettes in the lives of the athletes" is the part
     that does best with the test audiences.
    
      bb

    i hate those stupid, corny profiles of the athletes.

	Well most of them train in the cornfield states ya know!

    Shannon Miller is from Oklahoma.

  .127  they didn't ask us 'boxer-type wimminfolk.
	vignettes are the worst.

I had to turn the volume off during the womans gymnastics, especially
during the beam exercises. I don't think those commentators could find
enough ways to say the american team s$%^@#cked at that event. It really 
p%$$^^ssed me off!!

And who is that annoying woman who comments on the swimming events? Her
voice cuts right through me (past olympian?)! Take that womans microphone
away!

Doug.

    <--- I think you must mean Summer Sanders (? not sure about the last
    name)
    
    One of the good things about living in Canada is that we get the
    coverage on CBC AND NBC.  So, you can pick and choose which events you
    want to watch.  Also, the CBC has hours more coverage - I saw the
    ending of the woman's road race a long time before NBC showed it.  I
    think CBC shows more "live" events while NBC shows a lot of "tape
    delayed" stuff.  (which is not necessarily a bad thing - some people
    are only interested in the highlights and don't want to watch all the
    other coverage)  I must say, that tiny weight-lifter from (Hungary?)
    was impressive!.

    It's nice to be able to switch to CBC whenever Bob Costas comes on and
    starts droning on and on and on and on. Geez, what a hog.

| <<< Note 553.134 by POLAR::RICHARDSON "Carboy Junkie" >>>

| It's nice to be able to switch to CBC whenever Bob Costas comes on and
| starts droning on and on and on and on. Geez, what a hog.

	Must be Leslie talking!

    some kid who had just swam his heart out and won a silver
    was asked 'how does it feel to win a silver _again_ and 
    barely miss a gold?'  i was hoping he'd shove the twerp
    into the pool.

    
      "What was going through your mind as you fell off the bar in
     front of our two billion viwers ?..."
    
      bb

    
    
    	wow...what a jerk.
    
    

    Namesnik. Lost by a hair to Tom Dolan, media darling. I really wanted
    the kid to say "what a stupid <r.o.> question! How would you feel,
    <r.o.>?"
    
     I think the bias of the sports/entertainment-casters is shameful.
    During that race, even when Namesnik was winning, they always spoke
    with respect to Dolan. "Dolan's now in second. He's gaining on the
    leader." (Namesnik) Positively shameful. It's obvious within 20 seconds
    who the commentator's favorite is, and that's poor telejournalism.

    
    The question I remember being asked of Namesnik, right after they
    talked to Dolan about his asthma was something like, did you try to
    play on his weakness. The reporter was a real ass.
                                                     
    >I think the bias of the sports/entertainment-casters is shameful. 
    
    I don't remember the names, but a good example of this was during the
    Women's bicycle race yesterday. The announcer made sure that all the US
    viewers hated the German winner, before the race even began.
    
    
    
    

    
      French, I believe.
    
      bb

yes, she is French. she has won every conceivable women's
race including the the Women's Tour de France, but never a
gold medal.

however, she has the temperment Laurent Fignon.

    
      By the way, I agree that the bike piece was a hatchet job,
     and one of NBC's weakest segments.  On the whole, the coverage
     hasn't been bad, in between the surfeit of commercials.
    
      And Atlanta is turning out a pretty good show, contrary to
     expectation (the pick-up trucks and country-western part of
     the Opening Ceremonies set the tone I feared, but not too much).
     Won't be many records - too hot and humid !
    
      bb

    I couldn't figure out WTF the women's cycling announcer was talking
    about most of the time.  Sounded like backstabbing insider gossip,
    but it made no sense at all to someone who just wanted to know: 1)
    who's in front, 2) who are the contenders, 3) how far are they from
    the finish line, and 4) what their physical condition has been/is at
    present.  The announcer sounded hysterical to me (and i don't mean
    "amusing", I mean "out of control").
    
    Leslie
    
    P.S.  Good for Longo--winning an Olympic road race in her 30s!

    Is anybody keeping track of how many of the athletes profiled by NBC
    actually go on to win. Their record doesn't seem to be very good.

         They get cursed by the profiles. Did you see that Chinese gymnist
    who fell through the rings? One minute he was a Chinese hero, the next
    it was all over. 

         The coverage this year is unusually poor - commercials every ten
    minutes and annoying, choppy reports. Plus those infuriating profiles
    about atheletes who may or may not choke ten minutes later. Still, the
    opening ceremonies were great - too bad this year' s "Dream Team" is
    such a dud. But the women's softball looks very strong - did anyone
    note the 78 mph fastball their pitcher threw? The volleyball teams also
    looked impressive, as did the water polo team, even though that sport
    is a total bore. 

    
    	With multiple events occurring simultaneously [sorry, Ed, I
    	know that's more than 2 syllables, but if you want you can
    	always look it up  8^)], there is no choice but to have a
    	"choppy reporting" style.  Either they show you the entire
    	event, and you miss an event that they decided to skip, or
    	you get "choppy reporting" and see portions of multiple e-
    	vents.
    

         Yes, but that's only because NBC has a monopoly on the coverage.
    Other stations, such as ESPN, should be allowed to show certain events
    in their entirity. Even a pay-per-view approach would be more
    satisfactory than the frustrating and tedious coverage NBC is giving
    us. Typically, coverage of an event involves about ten minutes of
    actual live action footage, fifteen minutes of commercials, and twenty
    minutes of profiles. Maybe they should keep the profiles until after
    someone actually wins an event. 

         You know, the Olympics have never been the same since the collapse
    of the Soviet Union. No more bad guys. No more hammer and sickle being
    raised, along with their great national anthem. 

 Didn't NBC lose their shirts with Pay Per View coverage 4 years ago?




 Jim

         Hey, since I'm so into the Olympic spirit, I want to add one more
    thing. Doesn't it seem like some atheletes are more worthy of their
    medals than others? Take, for instance, someone who trains their entire
    life to be a gymnist, starves and exersizes themselves to freakish
    proportions, and suffers terrible injuries. And then, in another event,
    some clown picks up an air rifle, fires ten shots, and gets a gold
    medal. In some events, the smallest mistake means the end of a
    career, while in others they can put on a halfhearted show (Dream Team)
    and still walk away with the gold. 

i guess we can ignore the ignorant remark about shooting not being
a sport, but i do agree with you. my personal opinion is that
professional athletes should not have been allowed in the Olympics.

that would still leave the question around the fairness of country
supported athletes and programs.

my guess is that most of the guys on the dream team worked extremely
hard to get to where they are today. just a guess though.

    >my personal opinion is that professional athletes should not have been 
    >allowed in the Olympics.
    
     I disagree. Other countries have for years had "amateur" athletes
    who were completely supported by the state and who did nothing but
    train. These are essentially professional athletes. Allowing
    professional athletes is a perfectly sensible response to this
    travesty of pseudo-amateurism.

    
    	re: clown with an air rifle
    	
    	You obviously have no idea how much dedication is involved in
    learing to properly shoot. These people also practice every day. Just
    because they don't have bulging muscles doesn't mean they aren't highly
    skilled and deserving of their gold medal.
    
    
    jim

Jim, i guess we need to remember that Ed entered that note :-).

Doc, i don't quite know what the right response should have been, but
something other than allowing pros in.

i mean for gawd sakes, how do you think some of these third world
countries feel walking onto the basketball court with the U.S.? that
doesn't fall into my "fair" category.

>i mean for gawd sakes, how do you think some of these third world
>countries feel walking onto the basketball court with the U.S.? that
>doesn't fall into my "fair" category.
    
     You don't get it- and I didn't get it until I read a column from (I
    think) Bob Ryan.
    
     It's not about fair. Fair is not what the Olympics are about. The
    Olympics are about the best athletes competing against each other.
    
     The original "Dream Team" obviously had the highest concentration of
    talent in the 92 Olympic basketball tournament. A point which was lost
    on me (and appears to be lost on you) is that the other teams WANT to
    play the very best we americans have to offer. They don't want to play
    a bunch of unproven college kids. There's no glory in beating anything
    short of the very best the US has to offer. Indeed, many opposing teams
    would be insulted if we sent less than our best. When the Dream Team
    went to Barcelona, the opposing athletes were pretty much awed to be on
    the same floor as them. They wanted to get their pictures taken with
    these star athletes, the cream of the crop. They now have a souvenir
    that proves they played against the very best players in the world- and
    they are very proud of this.
    
     This year, the Dream Team II" (bogus name; there's only one Dream
    Team) is not walking over the opposition as easily. Perhaps this team
    is not as good, but the simple fact is that the other teams are
    catching up. And there will be a day in the future, perhaps in 4 years,
    perhaps in 44, that the US team will lose. It's the natural order of
    things. The best example of this is the red hockey team of the USSR. An
    upstart team of americans beat them, professional athletes in all but
    name, the unbeatable team, in Lake Placid. Stuff happens. Weep not for
    the others, they are getting exactly what they wanted, and what they
    deserve. They deserve the opportunity to play our best.

i really don't believe every athlete wants to go up against the
very best america has to offer if it means certain defeat (or
even embarrassment) under certain conditions (pros v. amateur).
 
of course, i can't prove the degree of my opinion just like you 
can't, Doc. i'm sure there are athletes on both sides of the fence.

you can't tell me that every athlete wishes to go into a 
losing situation. after all, this very concept that we are
debating is the reason why nearly every sport in the world
stratifies specific attributes, e.g. age groups, skill
levels, handicaps, etc... 

i don't disgaree with altogether, but i don't agree with you
altogether.

    
      The Turk v. Greek "pocket Hercules" weightlifting stole the
     show yesterday, in my view.  What drama !
    
      What has happened to the vaunted Chinese ?  In swimming, they
     seemed sluggish.  Their gymnasts were falling off the apparatus.
    
      How close the pitcher's mound is in women's softball !  Only
     40 feet - it's like Little League size, but the people are large.
    
      Are the Russian gymnasts really human, or are they some sort of
     stamped out bionic automata ?  The only emotion seems to be
     expressed in constant male kissing in between routines, a habit
     shared by the Ukrainians, Belorussians, and Bulgarians, but NOT
     by the Chinese or Americans.  Is this a Slav thing ?
    
      bb

    
> i really don't believe every athlete wants to go up against the
> very best america has to offer if it means certain defeat (or
> even embarrassment) under certain conditions (pros v. amateur).
 
    I have a huge problem with the leave the Olympic to the amateurs
    argument.  

    First, being an "amateur" is no great ideal.  When the Olympics
    started "amateur" essentially meant a rich guy who had the time and
    resources to play a game and essentially excluded anyone without
    outside support.  Over time remaining an amateur progressed to be more
    inclusive as long as you didn't mind living near poverty level.  
    
    Second, of course we should send the best in each sport!  Try reversing the
    argument.  Do our male gymists hope the Russians keep there best
    gymnists home so they can come closer to winning?  Do our weightlifters
    hope the hungarians don't send their best?  I don't want anyone
    representing me who doesn't want to compete against the best.  In some
    sports that means we get to trash folks (basketball, softball, etc) in
    others we get to get trashed.  
    
    The essence of sports is to spend the time and sweat to be the best you 
    can be and to compete against the best and to see how you stack up.
    
    No forget that, let's handicap every event so every event ends up in a
    tie for every competitor and each one gets a snow cone and a gold
    star (oh I forgot that's tee ball for 6 year olds).
    
    Greg
    

    >  The Turk v. Greek "pocket Hercules" weightlifting stole the
    > show yesterday, in my view.  What drama !
    
     Yeah, that was some gold medal showdown.
    
    >  What has happened to the vaunted Chinese ?  
    
     Scairt out of using steroids due to pre-Olympic hype over testing?
    (Note that since the last Olympics, a number of their better performers
    have been nabbed using steroids, etc.) Thus the explosive performance
    in Barcelona and last year's world championships coupled with the
    current unimpressive performances would appear to be explicable.
    
    

>you can't tell me that every athlete wishes to go into a 
>losing situation. 
    
     This situation is hardly immutable. Eventually, even sending pro
    ballplayers, we're gonna lose. And that will be much more special to
    the country that does it than if we sent college kids to play against
    pros from other countries.

    The US Olympic baseball team is made up of college kids ..... terrific
    talents that may become solid professionals one day ...... they'll
    probably medal, but are not a lock ..... this is fun to follow
    and watch ........... too bad it can't be the same with basketball.
    
    The US basketball "team" is a bore.  I won't be following.  
    
    

    the u.s. women's softball team is supposed to be awesome.
    hope we get a glimpse of them.
    
    u.s. men's basketball team...why bother?

    Well, Atlanta really has a transportation mess/embarrassment on their
    hands. Athletes are checking out of the village and getting their own
    rooms and transportation to ensure they are not late for their
    scheduled events.

    How embarrassing.

>          <<< Note 553.159 by GAAS::BRAUCHER "Welcome to Paradise" >>>
    
>      The Turk v. Greek "pocket Hercules" weightlifting stole the
>     show yesterday, in my view.  What drama !

    That were good.
    
>      Are the Russian gymnasts really human, or are they some sort of
>     stamped out bionic automata ?

    Was wondering that, too.  No smiling, lots of perfunctory kissing.
    They were amazing though.

    
    	I think the pitcher's mound is always about 40' away on a soft-
    	ball field ... or maybe it's 44'.
    
    	Glen?
    

    40 feet.

    Must really smell bad after a long game, eh?

    what? the pitcher's mound?

    Well, come to think of it, that probably does too. Probably right up
    there with Gomer's Pile.

   While I can buy the argument about other countries' teams wanting to play
   against our "dream team" I still think it's ridiculous to have pro players
   at the "Olympics".  Wasn't it just a few years ago that people couldn't
   even be in the Olympics if they'd ever made money off their sport (eg, pro 
   athlete), or taken outside contributions?  Or was that specific sports?
   (Skating, etc.)

   Note that the Globetrotters don't usually play regular teams and expect a 
   fair game, either.  But that's different.

   It's also "interesting" timing that these guys get to go show the world
   how good they are, after signing $20 mil/yr. contracts, etc.  Nice little
   vacation as a signing bonus, eh?

   I thought the Saudi (?) woman in the shooting competitions was
   interesting.  Due to their society's dress code women can't compete in any
   sports other than shooting and chess.  "You can't look at her face, but
   she can blow you away!  And accurately!"  :-)

   -- Sam

   P.S.  Yes, chess.  Chess as an Olympic "sport"?  You decide.

    i encourage all saudi women to learn how to shoot.

    
    	I was surprised to hear that Ping Pong [PC name Table Tennis]
    	is an Olympic sport.
    
    	Next we'll have Olympic bowling and Olympic pocket billiards.
    

   >While I can buy the argument about other countries' teams wanting to play
   >against our "dream team" I still think it's ridiculous to have pro players
   >at the "Olympics".  
    
     So countries should not send their best athletes to the games, then?
    Why bother having them, if we're only going to go through the motions?
    And what to do about countries that actually sponsor their teams,
    paying their athletes to compete for the country? That's by definition
    a professional athlete. The current system is the least illogical.

    Some variant of ballroom dancing will be an Olympic sport before long.

    Yes, and a Canadian pair is ready to waltz in and take the gold.

    
    	Reel funny, Glenn.
    

    >>     Next we'll have Olympic bowling and Olympic pocket billiards.
    	
    Shawn!  You could be in the Olympics!  I understand you play a mean
    game of pocket pool.  

    >	Next we'll have Olympic bowling and Olympic pocket billiards.
    
    I can't wait to see the Olympic Team Bowling Shirts, it'll make
    for a great sight during the Opening Ceremonies Parade.
    
    Chris

    re: .172
    
    The June issue of the Delta in-flight magazine had a summary of a book
    written about 10 years ago, debunking the myth of the Olympics being
    for non-professionals only.  I'm sorry I don't recall the author or
    title.
    
    Bob

    Bob, you actually READ those in-flight mags?
    
    8)

I believe chess has been in the Olympics for a while.  "Beach volleyball,"
on the other hand, is new this year.

The Olympic committee jealously protects the name "olympic," to the point
where a tomato variety named "Olympic Flame" was forced to change, and
(allegedly) a Greek restaurant in Atlanta called "Olympic Pizza" had to
cover their sign.  So how come I can buy Olympic Stain in any paint store?

    Well, tug of war used to be an Olympic sport. I think that was
    discontinued as it was overrun with professionalism.

    
>    The June issue of the Delta in-flight magazine had a summary of a book
>    written about 10 years ago, debunking the myth of the Olympics being
>    for non-professionals only.  I'm sorry I don't recall the author or
>    title.

    One example of those true non-professionals of yesteryear ... I'm a track
    guy and common practice for Americans in the 50s, 60s, and 70s was to
    do the European track circuit during the summer.  They wanted to remain
    an amateur so they could not be paid; however getting expenses paid for
    was OK.  So as a Boston based runner I'd schedule 8 meets in 2 weeks
    in Europe and get my 8 round trip plane tickets and 1st class hotel
    accommodations.  Then I'd cash in the extra 7 sets of tickets and get a
    refund on the hotel room as I downgraded the accommodations.  Yup,
    those guys and gals were amateurs all right.  BTW - I have no problem
    with the athletes of that day but of the system that tried to maintain
    a silly image of "amateur" while driving such behavior and denying the
    economic benefit of track meets from the athletes and letting the
    promoters keep the vast majority of the bucks. 
    
    Greg
    

    re: .182
    
    On a four hour flight with Marina asleep next to me, I'll even read the
    safety information:-)
    
    Bob

    
>    	I was surprised to hear that Ping Pong [PC name Table Tennis]
>    	is an Olympic sport.
    
>   	Next we'll have Olympic bowling and Olympic pocket billiards.
    

Bowling makes as much sense as any other sport.

It is scored rather than judged and both women and men can play

It is also a "popular" sport on TV.  Here in Mass, candlepin bowling (to me this
rates well below infomercials) routinely get in the top 10 for sporting event
viewers every week.


Tim

    I think billiards would be cool. Technically demanding, just like
    shooting.
    
    Snooker players practice at least 6 hours a day.

| <<< Note 553.186 by ROWLET::AINSLEY "Less than 150 KTS is TOO slow" >>>

| On a four hour flight with Marina asleep next to me, I'll even read the
| safety information:-)

	Kinda explains why she went to sleep. Maybe next time you should pay
her some attention! :-)

    Bob, you read the inflight magazine to Marina? How sweet!

         I don't care what you people say - air rifle shooting is a lame
    event. They should have to do something else as well - make it a summer
    triathlon (sp?). Now womens' beach volleyball - THERE'S a sport!
    

    as others have already mentioned... the guy on NBC who does the
    post-race interviews is pathetic.  Did you see the Russian (Propov?)
    and American (Hall?) after the 100m freestyle?  It was a great race
    which the Russian won by .07 seconds.  The reporter interviewed both
    swimmers at the same time and kept going on about the pre-race "trash-
    talking" and what effect it had.  I thought Propov handled himself
    well, although he did not look amused.
    
    And if I was the Irish girl (Michelle Smith) who had just won a gold
    medal, I would have told him to F off when he started asking about the
    possibility of a drug-enhanced performance.
    
    On another note:
    
    The Canadian women's softball team is looking good.  Those girls are
    tough!

         Anyone else notice the sexist comments that one NBC announcer
    keeps making? It would be nice if the commentators did not completely
    humiliate our country in front of the rest if the world. 

>       <<< Note 553.193 by MFGFIN::E_WALKER "I'm out of p-name ideas" >>>

>         Anyone else notice the sexist comments that one NBC announcer
>    keeps making? 

	man or woman?

    
    	He said "announcer", not "announcess".
    
    	Please pay attention.
    

    That guy that does the gymnasts?

    
    	Ooh err.
    

         Hey, there's a rumor going around that the womens' gymnastics team
    just took the gold, beating out the dreaded Romanians. If so.....
    USA!!! USA!!! USA!!!!!!!!!
    

    Please don't tell me, anybody. I'm recording the games (no commercials
    :)_), and I've done very good at not hearing about any results. Please
    don't spoil it for me.
    -ss

         Official Olympic snarf!!! USA!!! USA!!! USA!!!!!!
    

>
>i really don't believe every athlete wants to go up against the
>very best america has to offer if it means certain defeat (or
>even embarrassment) under certain conditions (pros v. amateur).
    
    As the husband of a Welsh International athlete, I can tell you that
    she'd prefer to run and lose to Sonia O'Sullivan (I know she's Irish
    but you haven't got many good middle-distance prospects right now) than
    to Freda Bloggs who no-one ever heard of.
    
    As to the "amateur" nature of the competitors, 99% of those taking part
    lose money - the folks like Carl Lewis / Linford Christie earning
    millyuns are the smallest minority you can imagine. Wendy's
    participation in races in the last year cost us for travel &
    accomodation - but we don't mind. We really like the idea that she can
    take part. Perhaps that's the part of the Olympic ideal that Americans
    forget, having so many winning athletes in their team - there are many
    counties who have yet to win a medal EVER.
    
        
    /a

the women gymnasts did indeed win the team gold for the first time
ever!!!!!!!

way cool!

    Kerri Strug's second vault which she took after having already injured
    her ankle made me proud to be an american, I'll tell you that. Way to
    go, girl! Congrats to all of the women in the US gymnastics contingent.
    What a great performance, only further underscored by how much better
    they were yesterday than during the compulsories and even during last
    month's olympic trials. They nailed routine after routine to make
    history. Way cool.
    
    re: Michelle Smith
    
    I wouldn't be surprised if she were using performance enhancing drugs.
    After all, she didn't swim fast enough to qualify for the games by the
    July 5th deadline, and two weeks later she wins the gold? Hmmm. Not to
    mention the fact that the IOC, which is well known for
    anal-retentivity in adhering slavishly to all rules no matter how
    arcane, allowed her to race at all after having DQed wrestlers for 
    showing up at the wrong venue for a weigh-in. Can you say
    inconsistency? I knew you could.

>    re: Michelle Smith
>    I wouldn't be surprised if she were using performance enhancing drugs.
>    After all, she didn't swim fast enough to qualify for the games by the
>    July 5th deadline, and two weeks later she wins the gold? Hmmm. Not to
>    mention the fact that the IOC, which is well known for
>    anal-retentivity in adhering slavishly to all rules no matter how
>    arcane, allowed her to race at all after having DQed wrestlers for 
>    showing up at the wrong venue for a weigh-in. Can you say
>    inconsistency? I knew you could.
    
    1) Her coach enquired and was told twice that the deadline was July 20.
    2) Drugs: Ms Smith says "test me". She has been tested on several
       occasions, including Sunday mornings just as she got up.
    
    Are the OC incosistent? Certainly. Does that mean Ms Smith takes
    performance-enhancing drugs? No.
    
    Can you say "sour grapes"? I knew you could.

    >Are the OC incosistent? Certainly. Does that mean Ms Smith takes
    >performance-enhancing drugs? No.
    
     Who ever said that it did? Nice kill on that straw man, Andy. You've
    been practicing in your absence, I see.

    So tell me something, Andy. In the last Olympics, when the Chinese
    women swimmers performed alarmingly better a few months after being
    visited by bulgarians who were known to be the architects of the
    steroid abuse that country engaged in, were you at all suspicious? The
    chinese womens swimmers did not test positive for any known banned
    substances. So any of the athletes that complained were engaging in
    "sour grapes" then, huh? That newer more sophisticated drug screens
    caught these same swimmers using banned substances in the subsequent
    world championships doesn't mean anything, right? The mere fact that an
    athlete is willing to take a drug test is no more proof that
    that athlete has not taken performance enhancing drugs than a sudden
    improvement in performance is proof that they did.

    
      For once, the day's premier event, women's team gymnastics,
     lived up to the hype.  Storybook ending.  And before anybody
     gets on Coach Bela for pushing her on to do the winning vault
     with a risk of serious injury, let me say I think there are
     some risks that should be taken.  Kerri Strug would have to
     live her whole life as "the girl who fell down and then chickened
     out" if she didn't.  I bet Kerri and her (very anxious-looking)
     parents would agree.  You could hear Bela shouting "you can do it"
     all the way, and she proved him right.
    
      bb

    re: .207 Wasn't it Jaycie summat that fell off, not Ms Strug?

    I'm not sure it was really needed, though, Bill. Anybody know the
    margin of victory for the americans? If it was more than .5 pts, they
    could have taken one of the falls as a score and still won. But I
    heartily agree that it was a risk worth taking. I'd have done it- in a
    heartbeat. Now she's known for her courage and strength of character.
    It was a great and dramatic ending. (I only wish I hadn't gone to
    Headline News to check the Sox score prior to the denouement).

    
      I meant, on the vault.  Dominique and then Kerri, with a seeming
     lock on the event (any 7.5 on any of the next 4 vaults), proceeded
     to sit down on the next three landings, not managing over 7.2,
     putting all the pressure on Kerri with only one chance yet.  She
     limped back, did a perfect vault and stuck the landing, with a
     severely sprained ankle, tried to limp off, collapsed, and was
     carried out on a stretcher, returning in Bela's arms carry for the
     medal ceremony.  Talk about "Home of the Brave".
    
      bb

    >re: .207 Wasn't it Jaycie summat that fell off, not Ms Strug?
    
     Kerri Strug injured her ankle on her first vault when she came out of
    it too shallow (and ended up on her butt). She, on the last vault of
    the competition, landed her second vault but further injured her ankle.
    The second vault secured the gold for the americans. She is doubtful
    for the all around competition, for which that vault qualified her.

    I have to agree with the pride thing.  That took a lot of courage and
    sacrifice.  The gamble would have been not to redo the vault but
    possibly compete in the all around competition and then injure herself
    there, or not.  She chose to try for the team which says a lot. 
    Hopefully folks in the viewing audience will take note and look to this
    athelete for inspiration.  
    
    I was expecting the gymnasts to be unexciting and boring.  Boy was I
    ever surprised.  Truly awsome performances by all the atheletes they
    showed on the tube.  T'was a very emotional competition on several
    levels.   
    
    Brian

>    <<< Note 553.206 by WAHOO::LEVESQUE "you don't love me, pretty baby" >>>
>
>    So tell me something, Andy. In the last Olympics, when the Chinese
>    women swimmers performed alarmingly better a few months after being
>    visited by bulgarians who were known to be the architects of the
>    steroid abuse that country engaged in, were you at all suspicious? The
>    chinese womens swimmers did not test positive for any known banned
>    substances. So any of the athletes that complained were engaging in
>    "sour grapes" then, huh? That newer more sophisticated drug screens
>    caught these same swimmers using banned substances in the subsequent
>    world championships doesn't mean anything, right? The mere fact that an
>    athlete is willing to take a drug test is no more proof that
>    that athlete has not taken performance enhancing drugs than a sudden
>    improvement in performance is proof that they did.

    re: .206
    
    (May I say that I was disgusted by the Chinese, whose athletes have been
    caught cheating via drugs more times in the past few years than any
    other country.)
    
    The FIMA unannounced drug tests have been stepped up since the chinese
    mysteriously got rather good at swimming, just as have the tests on
    their middle-distance runners. Funnily enough, their performances have
    subsequently declined. What's sauce for the goose is also sauce for the
    gander however. The FIMA tests (and Olympic tests) are much more
    thorough than previously and the Irish lass has been regularly tested
    as much as they or anyone else. 
    
    The allegations made about Michelle Smith by Janet Smith are basically
    vague innuendo and lack any substance. 
    
    Let's clear this up: Michell Smith has had three tests in three months
    by FIMA, another by the Irish Olympic Committee and the mandatory two
    tests for any medallist. In other words she's been clean for at least 3
    months of any detectable drug. Allegedly the screening kit used by FIMA
    and at this Olypics is capable of detecting steroids taken up to three
    months ago - so she's been clean for at least 6 months. Most benefits,
    if not all, of steroids, will dissipate in that time.
    
    She won. Janet Smith didn't. Sorry, but that's the result. 
    
    Finally, OF COURSE I have no idea whether she has ever taken
    performance-enhancing drugs. But as an impartial observer, she seems to
    be clean.
    
    /andy
    
    PS for gods sake let's not mention Flo-Jo.

    
      Sorry, numbers wrong in .210.  They needed a "9.5", one out of
     4, but didn't get better than "9.2".  Kerri's last vault was 9.712,
     basically on one+ foot.
    
      bb

    >The allegations made about Michelle Smith by Janet Smith are basically
    >vague innuendo and lack any substance. 
    
     It's Janet Evans, BTW. And she didn't accuse. All she said was that
    people were talking about it. Obviously she was pissed off that she was
    edged out for the final spot. I don't blame her. It _seems_ and by no
    means do I state this as an objective fact that when the US tries to
    get a waiver to a rule or petition an athlete to compete, more often
    than not the IOC is unbending and really anal about the rules. But when
    the US's interests lie in strict enforcement of the rules, they seem
    far more sympathetic. It's just an impression, but there you have it.
    Think back to the gold medal basketball game in, what, 76? Total BS
    interpretation of the rules. And it was the US that got boned.

    Sorry about the slip-of-the-fingers with Janet Evans name. 
    
    It's a bit naive, thinking that her saying "drug rumours always
    circulate" isn't stirring the pot just a little.
    
    ...and hey, if the US and the IOC don't get on so well, how come you
    get 2 out of the last 3 summer Olympics?
    
    As to useless Officials, they're probably ex-DEC VP's.

    .191
    
    > air rifle shooting is a lame event.
    
    I suspect you don't know what you're talking about when you say "air
    rifle."  These are not Daisy B�B guns, these are precision rifles that
    are just as accurate as the very best "gunpowder" rifles.  They also
    are about the same size and weight as "gunpowder" rifles, and shooting
    them requires exactly the same skills as the "big kids" have to have. 
    The *only* difference is that the propulsive force is compressed air
    driven by a spring-loaded piston instead of gases produced by the
    combustion of nitrocellulose.
    
    Bottom line:  Get a clue.
    
    Speaking of "gunpowder" guns, American Kim Rhode took gold in double
    trap yesterday!

From:	US5RMC::"[email protected]" 23-JUL-1996 22:45:38.33
To:	polar::richardson
CC:	
Subj:	Would you be so good as to inform 'boxdom of this in topic #553?

I've been taking advantage of my recently acquired idle time to improve
my mind and broaden my interests. As a result of this opportunity, I've
been watching much of NBC's coverage of the Centennial Olympics.

The games are yet young, but I have the feeling that as they progress, the
self-enriching possibilities will continue to unfold.

Today, for example, I had the good fortune to observe a most memorable and
enlightening competetive event which I trust will have positive impact on
many of my outlooks for some time to come.

If you happen to have the chance to catch any of the Women's Beach
Volleyball matches, I would strongly advise that you do so. The intellectual 
benefits are wicked awesome.

nnttm,
-Jack


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	That Jack has such luck. He gets to enhance his interlectual side while
he is at home.

    >...and hey, if the US and the IOC don't get on so well, how come you
    >get 2 out of the last 3 summer Olympics?
    
     Which does the US own, Seoul or Barcelona?

    Yawn!  How are things going down there?! 

    
      It is interesting how the IOC snubs Jimmy Carter.  They will
     stay sore at him for Moscow at least till he dies.
    
      bb

    Well, it was a bogus decision, after all.

    whups, 2 out of 4.

    re: .190
    
    How do you think she got to sleep? :-)
    
    Bob

    
    
    	I've always enjoyed watching the gymnastics competetions during
    	the Olympics.  I have not been impressed with the men but our
    	women are fantastic, and last night proved it.  I was so tense
    	after Kerri made that first vault and injured her ankle.  We
    	were told she needed to get at least a 9.453 for the Americans
    	to clinch the gold and I wasn't sure that she'd be able to do
    	it with the injured ankle.  But as she proved in some of the
    	other events, she was the team anchor and pulled through to win
    	the gold for the team.  It will be a terrible shame if the
    	sacrifice she made with her ankle prevents her from competing
    	in the indivual competitions.
    
    	JJ
    

    
    gymnastics is one event i always love to watch.  i started watching
    last nite's competition, and got really tired.  not because the game
    was boring, but because i was exhausted.  anyhoo.  i saw all the uneven
    bars (US), and most of the balance beam, and then dozed off just before
    the floor exercise (my fav).  i knew we were in first, tho not by much
    at that point.  next thing i know, i wake up to screaming, and i see
    them carry kerry strug off on a stretcher.  thankfully, the showed what
    had happened.  i had goose pimples just watching it.  then there were
    tears in my eyes for her.  she was incredible.  from what i had seen,
    the us team was in tip top shape last nite.  i just wish i had seen it
    all.
    
    congrats to those 7 fine young ladies!!!!
    
    (by the way, i was rather annoyed how john tesh kept referring to all
    the gymnasts as 'little girls'.  yes, they are young, but they are on
    the 'womens' team (i know there was a discussion about this earlier)...
    

    .226
    
    > It will be a terrible shame if the
    > sacrifice she made with her ankle prevents her from competing
    > in the indivual competitions.
    
    That is what the word "sacrifice" means.  She risked the potential loss
    of solo glory for the glory of the team.  She is a hero.

Heroine.

    nntth

    .229
    
    hero, n.  A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose,
    especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life: soldiers
    and nurses who were heroes in an unpopular war.
    
    The word is nonsexyst, unless, of course, some sexyst pyg wishes to
    make it an issue.
    

    
    The women's gymnastics was GREAT yesterday!  I was not looking forward
    to it and planned to do other exciting stuff like pay the bills but
    couldn't get away form the TV.  While I was watching I was thinking of
    yesterday's conversation in here.

    The US gold was the final step in a 20-25 climb of women's gymnastics
    from a poor also ran to the best in the world.  This climb started
    after the 72 and 76 Olympics when Olga Korbat and Nadia Commenich (lord
    I have to learn how to spell) caught the imagination of the country and
    most importantly our young female athletes.  Olga and Nadia, of course,
    were the standouts members of state-sponsored juggernauts.  In 72 or
    76 did we think the Russians and Romania's should not bring their best
    gymnasts because they would crush everyone else? Did we think Olga and
    Nadia (Michael Jordan) should have stayed home because they were so much
    better than others?  No, seeing the best and competing against the
    best planted the seed that led to this years amazing gold, IMO.
           
    The second thought is many of the great stories of Olympics deal with
    dominant folks ... Nadia, Jean Claude Killey, Edwin Moses, Pavlo Nurmi
    ... folks that absolutely dominated their opposition.  Trying to
    eliminate dominance would eliminate such performances and take away from
    the essence of the games.  The 92 men's team ranks as a great team, IMO
    , while the 96 team does not.  The next great event will be when we
    lose which will be HUGE for the team that takes us down, just us our
    victories during our climb in gymnastics were HUGE for us as we beat
    the big bad Russians and Romanians.

    Greg
             
                    

>     <<< Note 553.231 by SMURF::BINDER "Errabit quicquid errare potest." >>>

	American Heritage is crap!  Mr. Postpischil said so, so it
	must be twuuw. 

        {blink, blink}

    well, i must say i'm fairly sure both claudio and leander were glad
    their respective heroes were female.

    Has anyone called Kerri "America's sweetheart" yet?  I think that title
    had been reserved for Dominique M(??)o but she may have to take a
    backseat to all the hoopla that's going to be given to Strug (and
    deservedly so)
    
    It was a great competition - and I'm glad NBC decided to show some of
    the other team performances.  The all-around competition is going to be
    good.
    
    The performance by the American mens' 4x100 freestyle was also exciting
    to watch.  Another good job by Hall Jr.  I've been comparing body
    styles in the different sports and have decided that the swimmers are
    just too skinny!  I know, it must be hard to keep the weight on.  On
    the other hand, the water polo guys ....

     <<< Note 553.217 by SMURF::BINDER "Errabit quicquid errare potest." >>>
>    > air rifle shooting is a lame event.
>    I suspect you don't know what you're talking about when you say "air
>    rifle."  These are not Daisy B�B guns, these are precision rifles that
>    are just as accurate as the very best "gunpowder" rifles.  They also

Not to metion the bullseye is 1 mm (one millimeter) in diameter, to be hit
from 10 meters away, if they use the usual international rules.

I have an RWS air rifle of similar construction. 22 caliber pellet, 850 feet
per second, can shoot through 1/2" plywood, though it doesn't always make it
through. It's definitely not a toy.

    .236
    
    > Not to metion the bullseye is 1 mm (one millimeter) in diameter...
    
    No, I don't think so.  At least not on the internationally sanctioned
    targets I use.  One millimeter is 2/3 the size of this letter -> o
    
    I have a Weihrauch cal. .22 air rifle with a competition peep sight on
    it.  Ask the tree rats that encountered it when it was in the Doctah's
    hands whether it's a toy.

    Well, I must admit I did have some fun with it.

    i had to do that last summer.  it was no fun, but i
    had to do it.  they were everywhere.

    I find it amazing (and pretty inspiring) to see these
    atheletes with asthma (some quite severe) competing and winning.
    
    Last night (Jeannie? Van Dyken ?) won the women's freestyle
    swimming event (400m?), and she is evidently on a similar medication 
    regimen to mine.  One of the male swim team members is also a
    severe asthmatic.
    
    I wonder if they are allowed to use steriod medications during
    the games?
    
    
    

    I'll admit to having gotten caught up in watching the games last night;
    the pre-games hype is worse than the actual event once it's underway.
    
    And I'm glad that I did get caught up in it last night, because it
    was amazing.  Strug is positively inspirational for people of all ages.
    You don't see that kind of sacrifice and team spirit much in today's
    "Me First" America.
    
    She'd been performing way above expectations all along, even helping
    to pull the team out of its initial compulsory beam doldrums, and then
    to finish it off like this... wow.  I still get chills thinking about
    what must've been going through her mind.  The image of Coach Karoli
    carrying her to the Gold Medal podium will be one of those immortal
    "moments in sports" that you see replayed through the years.
    
    Normally I bristle at the suggestion that sports figures are
    considered "heroes", because the media and the sports business misuse
    the word.  Well, Strug is a genuine, legitimate sports hero.
    
    What's even better is that my kids were extremely impressed and moved
    by what she did (they replayed the whole thing this morning for those
    who missed it late last night).  So maybe there's some hope that kids
    can learn some real values (other than how to put the squeeze for
    hundreds of millions of dollars, that is) from athletics.
    
    Chris

    Oh, and just so that I can say that I don't always bash TV coverage
    and the like... NBC did a pretty good job on the Strug story.  The
    overhead shot of her on the stretcher with hordes of photographers
    surrounding her was remarkable, as well as the coverage of the medal
    awarding ceremony.
    
    They also did a good job covering the coaches' reactions.  It was
    interesting seeing Karoli's face change once he realized how much
    Strug was hurting.
    
    Chris

    Karolyi.
    
    Really, no thanks whatever are required.

    
    	Thanks for bringing that up Chris.  I was hoping someone
    	would haul off and slug a few of those photogs.  She had
    	just clinched the gold for the team, was in some SEVERE pain,
    	sitting on a stretcher with doctors trying to help her and
    	here are these MORONS getting in the doctors' way so they
    	can get a few snapshots.
    

         Olympic history has been made - again. More swimming world records
    broken - Kerri Strug's heroic performance - and air rifle shooting is
    STILL a lame sport!  USA!!! USA!!!! USA!!!!!!!!

    I fell asleep watching the equestrian. Why don't they do away with that
    and substitute it for something cool like rabbit hunting. Yes! They
    could section off a couple acres of land, let a few rabbits (or
    squirrels) loose, and see which country comes back with the most in 15
    minutes.
    -ss

         What?!? How could you fall asleep during that event? Did you see
    the American rider on that Nirvana horse go through most of her routine
    and then crash near the end? I like the rabbit idea, though. 

    I heard they had to shoot the horse. Oh well.
    -ss

         No, no, Nirvana is still fine and expected to finish out the
    event. Just an unlucky slip. 

| <<< Note 553.249 by THEMAX::SMITH_S >>>

| I heard they had to shoot the horse. Oh well.

	That was curt cobain.... 

         What happened? No Olympic updates all night? 

    Good. No spoilers for the 5 hour tape I've recorded tonight to get
    caught up on these games.
    -ss

    News or somesuch.
    
    
    Guess who won another gold medal.
    
    Not a brit, that's fer shure.
    
    Anyhow, the mens gymnastics kept me awake way past my bedtime. I
    thought the Chinese bloke - Li Xioashuang - who won was frankly
    brilliant. The second and third (Nemov, Scherbo) were stunningly good,
    especially the floor exercises, which beggar belief, even with a sprung
    floor.
    
    The american chap did well too, 5th I think. No disgrace in such
    exalted company.
    
    
    Having not seen Strug's vaulting until last night, I, too, was
    impressed by her courage, if not her coach. But....since her 2nd vault
    was unnecessary, why didn't the US team, with all the technology
    around, KNOW this? (Perheps becuase someone else failed later?) BTW:
    she described a call from Clinton to congratule her as "Neat....he's a
    pretty influential person". 18 years young, that one.
    
    /a
    
    PS For gods sake! Don't mention Flo-Jo!

    BTW: IBM's scoring last night SUCKED BIG TIME. They showed totals for
    two events with three event scores displayed below - y'know, 18.summat
    with three 9.summats below. I was confused, I bet the competitors were
    too.
    
    Someone shoot 'em and get DEC in :-)

    >Anyhow, the mens gymnastics kept me awake way past my bedtime. I
    >thought the Chinese bloke - Li Xioashuang - who won was frankly
    >brilliant. 
    
     Absolutely. I was especially impressed with the way he nailed his
    dismount on the last event, the highbar, when it was clear he needed a
    major score to beat Nemov. Talk about rising to the challenge. A great
    comeback from the team competition.
    
    >The second and third (Nemov, Scherbo) were stunningly good,
    
     Yes. They certainly kept it from being a runaway. It was a great
    competition.
    
    >Having not seen Strug's vaulting until last night, I, too, was
    >impressed by her courage, if not her coach. But....since her 2nd vault
    >was unnecessary, why didn't the US team, with all the technology
    >around, KNOW this? 
    
     Going into Dominique Mosceanu's vault, the US team needed a 9.453 to
    clinch the gold, with several russians left to compete. She sat on both
    of her vaults, so it was up to Strug to try to clinch. When Strug took
    her first vault, there were two russians who hadn't been scored yet.
    Had they both gotten 10s and had Strug not improved the US' final score
    beyond 9.12, the russian team would have won. That's why she took the
    last vault. To ensure the victory- even though in the final analysis it
    became moot.

    
      According to this month's New England Journal of Medicine, the
     training, isolation, and leg stress of teenage gymnastic training
     "borders on child abuse".
    
      bb

I argued with myself yesterday about replying to this string.
I have strong feelings about it but know myself to be lacking the
"sports chromosome," i.e. the killer competitive spirit, so I
thought perhaps I'm so far beyond the pale that I should exempt
myself from the discussion.  (Here's how naive I am: when my 
then-boyfriend got into a stupid who-owns-this-parking-space
fistfight with another guy, I tried to *break it up*.)

At any rate, I'm very uncomfortable with the seemingly universal
sentiment that Strug is a "hero[ine]".  Of course she is a 
brilliant athlete; she's courageous, spunky, and dedicated to
her team.  But did she have a *choice* about making that second
vault?  I don't fault Karolyi for encouraging her ("You can do it!"),
because at that point only she knew how injured she was.  And I
think gymnasts are trained to ignore injury for the sake of the 
sport, the team, the win.  I assume because of that training, the
possibility of acknowledging the injury and choosing her body
over her team was unthinkable to Strug.

I *HATE* THAT!

I know I'm just shoveling against the tide, but I wish the world
could remember that they're the Olympic *GAMES*.  It disgusts
me that athletes burst into tears because they've "only" won the
SILVER.

I watch the games because the athletes in action are (sometimes)
beautiful; it's turning to a fascinated horror, though, as
deformed bodies cheat death in fevered succession.  I think I'm
on the brink of a boycott; I just can't support this madness, and 
I can't justify it to my daughter.

Leslie

    But this is international competition. To get to this level, normal
    life is forfeited. Daily norms can't be applied. It's not normal to be
    in the Olympics so don't expect normal behaviour.

    |it's turning to a fascinated horror, though, as
    |deformed bodies cheat death in fevered succession.
    
    i don't understand this statement.

    I don't mean to speak for Leslie but it seems that she's saying that
    many of the (gymnastics) maneuvers are actually pretty dangerous, and
    that serious injury or even death could occur as a result of a fall on
    a particular apparatus, for example. And she's saying that instead of
    appreciating the artistic and athletic value of the exercises, she
    finds herself fascinated by the danger (if I understand correctly.)

>I argued with myself yesterday about replying to this string.
    
    Now that must have been a sight to see. Did it come to blows or were
    you decorous with yourself? ;-)
    
>But did she have a *choice* about making that second vault?  
    
    Yes and no. She did have a choice but because of her
    personality/character/makeup she probably would not have made the other
    choice unless she were simply unable to make it. I totally identify
    with such a sentiment.
    
>I don't fault Karolyi for encouraging her ("You can do it!"),
>because at that point only she knew how injured she was.  
    
     Me neither and I don't understand why other people find it useful to
    do so. What's he supposed to say, "don't do it?" I thought the camera
    trained on him said it all- he was elated by her performance but it
    certainly didn't stop there. He wasn't a general sending young boys to
    their death 'for the good of the country'. He was a concerned mentor
    working to assist her in realizing her potential, but also concerned
    about her well being.
    
>I assume because of that training, the
>possibility of acknowledging the injury and choosing her body
>over her team was unthinkable to Strug.
    
     Personally, I don't think the injury was all that bad until she did
    the second vault. It may be difficult to relate to if you aren't
    familiar with sports injuries. I've had my share of twisted ankles,
    some of which resulted from continuing to play after having rolled it
    once already, and it wasn't until the second time that it really became
    a problem. And I wasn't in a tournament or anything; I was playing
    because I wanted to play. Had I been in a position to win an Olympic
    gold medal, there's simply no question that I would have played. And if
    I twisted it worse in so doing, that's the price one pays. Getting an
    olympic gold medal is such a rare achievement that it's literally
    unfathomable to me that one would go all the way there and stop just
    short due to a minor injury. Now if my team already had it in the bag,
    I'd be inclined to rest for awhile, but I'd probably want to get back
    into the game before long. It's just the way I am.
    
>It disgusts me that athletes burst into tears because they've "only" won the
>SILVER.
    
     I wonder if you are misinterpreting the tears. In most cases, I don't
    thnk the tears result from "only" winning a silver or bronze. When you
    are involved in an athletic competition, typically you have to put your
    emotions to the side in order to be able to perform at your maximum.
    With all the conditioning and training and effort you undergo, to put
    yourself in a position requiring precise emotional control when you're
    under the influence of adrenaline- once it's over if you've done less
    than you know you could have the frustration along with the release of
    all that bottled up emotion can spout the water works. I know, cuz I've
    done it. (Then you get to add that humiliation to the mix.)
    
>it's turning to a fascinated horror, though, as
>deformed bodies cheat death in fevered succession.  I think I'm
>on the brink of a boycott; I just can't support this madness,
    
     Chacun a son go�t. I find the olympics tremendously inspiring.

    Thanks Doc, yes.  Increasingly I feel like I'm driving by a mangled
    car wreck and fighting the urge to rubberneck; I *know* something
    horrible is going to happen, and I don't want to witness it, but 
    something in me doesn't want to miss it either.  I'm deciding to
    go for the miss.
    
    Deformed bodies: athletes whose extensive training has reshaped
    their bodies to non-natural (to me...) proportions.  The wrestlers,
    for instance, or many of the women athletes with virtually no
    breasts or fannies left.  Cheat death: the men's high-bar (the
    NBC commentators sounded afraid to watch!), or how about the
    asthmatic Dolan, who gets only what, 20% of the oxygen non-asthmatics
    get?  Fevered succession: One after the other, pumped with adrenaline
    and feeling just a bit of stress...
    
    Good point though, that international competition removes one from
    normal life and assumptions (what you said; this editor won't let
    me go back to see the reply).  It just ain't for me.  Competition
    ends at the point I need it for survival; sport to me is competing
    with *myself*.
     
    Leslie

    >how about the asthmatic Dolan, who gets only what, 20% of the 
    >oxygen non-asthmatics get?  
    
     That's when he's having an attack, not when his asthma is under
    control (like, during competition).

    re: .263
    
    Asthma doesn't get better when you sit around doing nothing.
    The best defense against asthma is the strongest, healthiest
    lungs you can cultivate.  I'm willing to bet Dolan's got that.
    

as i understood it, Karolyi stated that the choice to do the second
vault was entirely up to Strug. the "you can do it remark" was in
support of her decision, not to encourage the decision. this was
stated in an interview with BK by BK.

i think "cheating death" a bit excessive as an assessment. most sports
certainly do have elements of danger/risk for injury, even serious
injury, but death is a very rare occurance.

i have exercise induced asthma. it isn't very, very bad, but enough
to have a constant prescription of Proventil. I try to use it only
when i know i have to put in a serious effort on the bicycle, like
the Mt. Washington Hillclimb will be a must. 

as Doc stated, athletes, the really hard core dedicated-to-their-
sport/team athletes do think and act differently. this difference
is makes them better than the rest. it's that little (and sometimes
it is little) extra drive, that better than average courage, and the
discipline to endure beyond extreme discomfort and pain that makes
a world class athlete (genetics and proper training notwithstanding).

there are only a handful of world class athletes in the world. it's
rare to get all the components in one human being and rarer for that
human being to take advantage of that gift. 

i give all of these athletes, regardless of their performances in this
event, my greatest admiration and respect for it truely is a sacrifice
and labor of love.

I was told recently that in a poll of world-class athletes, 56% said that 
they would take a drug that would only give them only ten years to live if 
it would also make them a world champion.  I recall a man several years ago
who had broken his leg, but he still needed to do his last performance on 
the rings.  He knew that the landing was going to seriously damage his leg,
but he was determined that he was going to perform.  He stayed on his feat 
on the landing, just like Strug, and the commentators admired he dedication
and drive to win.  What I fear is that millions of kids watch this and are 
convinced that playing hurt is the right thing to do regardless of the injury.

Jim

    >What I fear is that millions of kids watch this and are 
    >convinced that playing hurt is the right thing to do regardless 
    >of the injury.
    
     Well, frankly I'd prefer they do that then smoke cigarettes or engage
    in unsafe sex or drop out of school. A lot of these things are
    indicative of a lack of self-respect and self-esteem, and developing a
    skill can help a person acquire these things. While I agree that
    there's a danger of a loss of perspective, it would seem that such a
    danger is far less of an issue than what happens with teens who are
    "just hangin' out" with "nothin' to do."

      ::::::::   :::::::: 
    :+:    :+: :+:    :+: 
   +:+        +:+    +:+  
  +#++:++#+   +#++:++#+   
 +#+    +#+        +#+    
#+#    #+# #+#    #+#     
########   ########       
                          
      ::::::::  ::::    :::     :::     :::::::::  :::::::::: 
    :+:    :+: :+:+:   :+:   :+: :+:   :+:    :+: :+:         
   +:+        :+:+:+  +:+  +:+   +:+  +:+    +:+ +:+          
   +#++:++#  +#+ +:+ +#+ +#++:++#++: +#++:++#:  :#::+::#      
        +#+ +#+  +#+#+# +#+     +#+ +#+    +#+ +#+            
#+#    #+# #+#   #+#+# #+#     #+# #+#    #+# #+#             
########  ###    #### ###     ### ###    ### ###              
                                                              

>>What I fear is that millions of kids watch this and are 
>>convinced that playing hurt is the right thing to do regardless 
>>of the injury.
>    
>Well, frankly I'd prefer they do that then smoke cigarettes or engage
>in unsafe sex or drop out of school. 

Frankly, I'd rather prefer that kids smoke cigarette or engage in unsafe
sex or drop out of school than inject heroin or join gangs and kill people.
The fact that you can find some activity that is worse is no reason to 
approve of a lesser activity that is bad for them.

Jim

>Frankly, I'd rather prefer that kids smoke cigarette or engage in unsafe
>sex or drop out of school than inject heroin or join gangs and kill people.
    
    What a stupid comment.
    
>The fact that you can find some activity that is worse is no reason to 
>approve of a lesser activity that is bad for them.
    
    No sher, <r.o.>lock! Which is why I explained in the part of my reply
    that you elected not to quote that I didn't think it was ok for kids
    not to consider the impact of an injury when deciding whether to play.
    Unfortunately I worded it under the assumption that the reader had an
    working brain, an assumption that appears not to be well founded at
    this juncture.
    
     LKet me make it easy for you. I (that refers to me) don't (this is the
    opposite of 'do') think (I don't imagine I can help you here) it's
    (contraction of the words 'it' and 'is') ok (all right) for kids
    (children) to play (what kids do) hurt (e.g. boo boo) in all
    circumstances (you're on your own). /hth 
    

    ya know,
    
    sometimes, you guys are so nice to each other, this place just gets
    boring.

One of the best things about Soapbox is to see someone lose context and 
go off on a babbling tirade.

Jim

    
      I saw a news item that one lady competitor collapsed from the
     heat during the pistol shooting.
    
      bb

    
    I need to get out more I guess. I just found this note (hangs head in
    shame). Last nights events were good. The women's 400 IM was fun to
    watch. I love the swimming events. I alos caught part of the mens
    ggymnastics, but only watched up to the 3rd rotation. I fugured
    Scherbo and Nemyov were going to be close. I take it Li to long to
    spell from China won the gold medal? His pommel horse routine was
    great, he also did good in the floor excercise, just a little hop on
    a landing. I've been watching the Olympics every night and I enjoy
    all the competition immensely.

    i love the track and field events.  no deformed
    bodies there, no siree.

    
    .276
    
    Is ben Johnson performing this year?

    there you go!  you just _had_ to bring him up, didn't you?!

    
    little ol trouble maker me.

    {thud}

    
      As the freckly Irish swimmer went through the gold medal
     ceremony for the THIRD time, it occurred to me that I have
     absolutely no idea what the Irish national anthem is.  So
     far as I could tell, only she and her parents were singing it.
    
      bb

    
    in regards to Michelle Smith, she has been tested 11 times in the past
    13 or 14 months. all negative. she swam great.

    however, she is guilty by association because her
    boyfriend, a t&f man, was disqualified for using
    performance-enhancing drugs.

she also had to practice in (i believe) Denmark because 
Ireland doesn't have an Olympic size pool.

    Re:-2  What a reason to be guilty !!
    BTW Michelle has been cleared by initial drug tests. What do Janet evans
    has to say now ? All this mud slinging would not have been there if
    Michelle had failed to qualify and Janet had won. Talk about
    competition ! Sheer hypocracy.

    .279
    
    You're an olympic meddler.

She hasn't failed a test for a *known* performance enhancing drug...

That makes her innocent right?

Tim

    beating everybody else makes her guilty.

    and speaking of anthems.... I miss the days where they used to show the
    medal ceremonies for "other" countries that won.  So far, I have only
    heard the Irish (once), Chinese (once) and American anthems.  Too bad
    we'll never here the U.S.S.R. anthem again - it was very stirring.  I
    have the piano music at home - you might find the words interesting if
    I remember to post them... then again, you might not. 8*)
    

    The Irish National anthem is "God Damn The Queen".

    i notice they're mentioning the bronze meddle winners, 
    at least. for awhile there they were concentrating only 
    on the gold and silver meddlists.

    
    i was told I have mettle. though not in gold or silver.

    <--  A big plate of it in your noggin, no doubt.
    
    
    Mike
    

                         A brassy comment!

    .165
    
    Several teams have moved out of the Olympic village, NOT because
    they've been late or missed events.  The Latvian team decided to
    go back to Rome, Ga. (not exactly around the corner from the 
    events) because they found the OV and all its activities too
    distracting.  This team and others trained in small towns outside
    of Atlanta for many months leading up to the games.  They are trying
    to remain focused for their particular events.   ACOG wanted to roll
    out the red carpet for the athletes, some teams found it distracting
    them when they know they need to concentrate on their performances.
    
    .203  It's difficult to decide about Michelle Smith.  Four years ago
    she wasn't close to being a factor.  She met her (now) husband in Barcelona
    4 years ago; he's been banned from participating in events for 4 years
    for using performance enhancing drugs.....seems just a bit too co-
    incidental for me.  I'm with the Doctah on this one, all the
    tests have proven is that she's not using KNOWN performance enhancing
    drugs.  Age isn't a blessing to swimmers but we're to believe she's
    knocked 13 seconds off her best time at a period in her life when
    most swimmers are starting to lose their best stuff.  Angel Martino
    is a prime example of the age factor; Angel is still dynamite on
    the relays, but the best she can do as an individual is bronze.
    Remember, the Chinese were not caught in Barcelona, they got caught
    at following international events.  One sports doctor said the
    Chinese ALMOST had the drugging down to a science; as other teams
    before them they used the drugs while training and "thought" they
    knew when to stop and flush them from their systems while still en-
    joying the boost when it came to winning Olympic gold. Time will tell.
      
    What bugs me more is that Smith was allowed to compete at all in
    that one race where Evans didn't make the cut (I believe Smith's
    paperwork was in order for the other events she had earlier 
    announced she would swim. As the saying goes "it ain't over until
    the paperwork is done". Smith didn't fail to get her paperwork in
    for this one particular event by a few hours, she missed it by
    10 days!!!
    
    .258 "choosing victory over her body".  The network feeds were very
    repetitious, but another interview with Strug by a local anchor showed
    Strug stating "I've worked too hard for too many years to pass up that
    opportunity.  No one forced me to do the second vault; I knew I was
    hurt but I also KNEW I could make that vault".  FWIW, although Strug
    won't compete in the all arounds, she hopes to compete in two events
    on Sunday......one of them is the vault....considered her speciality.
    I think of her a heroine because she put the interests of the team
    ahead of her personal goals for the gold <--- to me, this is what the
    Olympics are all about.  Personal gold medals make for great product
    endorsement opportunities; this young lady wasn't swayed by that fact. 
    
    I forgot to note who mentioned it, but I was also surprised to see
    the Russian athletes crying.  Along with Romania they've dominated
    this event for years; they were excellent and performed beautifully,
    they should take pride in this.  IMHO their coach was the biggest
    crybaby of all complaining that the crowd was too partisan and noisy;
    I wonder what he would have said if these games were being held in
    Moscow???  The American gymnasts had to suck it up, grin and bear
    it for a LOT of years; this is their turn to shine.
    

<<< Note 553.287 by CADSYS::FENNELL "Nothing is planned by the sea and the sand" >>>

>She hasn't failed a test for a *known* performance enhancing drug...

>That makes her innocent right?

	The rules specify the drugs and types of drugs that are banned.
	The governing bodies test for the drugs or the types of drugs
	that are banned. She has been tested for all of these substances.
	All the tests have been negative. By definition, this makes her
	inocent.

Jim

    RE: .296

>    Personal gold medals make for great product
>    endorsement opportunities; this young lady wasn't swayed by that fact. 

    As a complete guess, I would think that what she did increased her
    product endorsement value by at least a factor of 10.

    -- Dave

         Just heard rumors of some mistakes during womens' gymnastics
    individual performances. Reportedly, Dominique Dawes took a tumble.
    Anyone know if there's any truth to this? I want to know what to expect
    before I watch the tape. 

         Official snarf of the American womens' gymnastics team! 
    USA!!! USA!!!! USA!!!!!!!!!!!

    Ed, I think you need to be a part of the U.S. womens gymnastic team.

    I'm sure he would enjoy being the leotard cleaner.

         Hey, the way things are going in the Olympics, maybe they'll add
    air hockey as a sport and I can join the team. 

    >>>Hey,  the way things are going in the Olympics, maybe they'll add
    >>>hockey as a sport and I can join the team.
    
    
    You could join if they added monkey pumping.
    :)_ss

    Steve Nunno (sp?) (Shannon Miller's coach) seems kind of sleezy to me.

>    <<< Note 553.263 by MPGS::WOOLNER "Your dinner is in the supermarket" >>>
>    Deformed bodies: athletes whose extensive training has reshaped
>    their bodies to non-natural (to me...) proportions.  The wrestlers,
>    for instance, or many of the women athletes with virtually no
>    breasts or fannies left.  
    
    Uh, not all women have the body fat needed for larger breasts (no
    insults intended to anyone by this statement) and indeed they get in
    the way of runners, to take one example. Remember that the natural
    athletic body is not the body type to have excess ounces.  As to
    "fannies" - given that you are referring to the american meaning of
    this term as opposed to british (I laughed when I read the note
    originally), a muscular backside is far more attractive to some than a
    droopy one.
    
>    Cheat death: the men's high-bar (the
>    NBC commentators sounded afraid to watch!), or how about the
>    asthmatic Dolan, who gets only what, 20% of the oxygen non-asthmatics
>    get?  Fevered succession: One after the other, pumped with adrenaline
>    and feeling just a bit of stress...
    
    All *kinds* of stuff is dangerous. The mens floor exercises contain
    moves that would cripple most of us - but so can driving a car if you
    don't know how. It's what they have trained 10+ years for and even
    experienced car drivers crash sometimes.
    
>    Good point though, that international competition removes one from
>    normal life and assumptions (what you said; this editor won't let
>    me go back to see the reply).  It just ain't for me.  Competition
>    ends at the point I need it for survival; sport to me is competing
>    with *myself*.

    Most atheletes compete with themselves. My wife is prouder of PB's than
    beating other athletes. When she knocked her marathon time down to 3:07
    she was 64th woman in that race, but #1 in my eyes.
    
    BTW, nice name,
    
    Andy
    

>          <<< Note 553.283 by 30188::OLIVER_B "it's about summer!" >>>
>    however, she is guilty by association because her
>    boyfriend, a t&f man, was disqualified for using
>    performance-enhancing drugs.
    
    a) Quite a long time ago.
    
    b) She tested clean. That's C L E A N. ok? More tests every day show
    she is CLEAN. If any tests show she isn't, then condemn her.
    
    Interesting interview with here pointing out that she was SLOWER than
    Janet Evans winning her medals last time. "If I was taking drugs", she
    said, "wouldn't I have been FASTER?". 
    
    The real suspicion here is on people who performed far better than now
    when the testing was less severe. No, I don't necessarily point to
    anyone in particular, but ... maybe the chinese swimmers provoke a
    little concern?
    
    a

>                    <<< Note 553.284 by WMOIS::GIROUARD_C >>>
>
>she also had to practice in (i believe) Denmark because 
>Ireland doesn't have an Olympic size pool.

    Holland.

i can't believe the inane pessimistic remarks being entered in
here about Smith. you really ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

if there were some good reason for suspicion that would be
different. 

all i see going on in this situation is people and the media
ruining a person's lifetime dream by all the poking and
prodding. 

the worse part of this is that it will go on for some time
beyond these Olympics and will forever taint he moment.

btw, for all the doubting Thomas' out there, sports history
is filled with literally thousands of underdogs rising to
the occasion and performing far beyond their history of
performance in a moment's time. 

this performance by Smith IS NOT an extraordinary feat.

so until there is something of substance to hang some
guilt on, you should hold those wagging tongues.

    The Olympics is boring the pants off me,and playing havoc with the
    regularly scheduled programmes.
    
    Eg,I had to wait until 8.30 pm to watch EastEnders,rather than the
    usual 7.30 pm slot.
    
    It`s a disgrace to us license payers.
    

    >.203  It's difficult to decide about Michelle Smith.  Four years ago
    >she wasn't close to being a factor.  She met her (now) husband in Barcelona
    >4 years ago; he's been banned from participating in events for 4 years
    >for using performance enhancing drugs.....seems just a bit too co-
    >incidental for me.  I'm with the Doctah on this one, all the
    >tests have proven is that she's not using KNOWN performance enhancing
    >drugs.  Age isn't a blessing to swimmers but we're to believe she's
    >knocked 13 seconds off her best time at a period in her life when
    >most swimmers are starting to lose their best stuff.  
    
     Just to reiterate- I haven't taken a position as to whether I think
    she did or did not take performance enhancing drugs. I merely said I
    wouldn't be surprised, solely on the basis of her near miraculous
    performance improvement. When you couple that with her boyfriend's
    experience with performance enhancing drugs, it doesn't seem at all
    unreasonable that something could be amiss. Note that recognizing the
    possibility is not an accusation (a point others seem to be missing.)
    
    As for Jim's assertion that testing clean makes her innocent, I am
    forced to scoff at the naivety of such a comment. That's like saying
    that prior to the invention of the means to observe a virus that
    viruses didn't exist. Let's suppose for the sake of argument that Smith
    has indeed taken performance enhancing drugs, and furthermore that
    people involved have a scientific understanding of the underlying
    chemistry involved in the testing process. It is not out of the realm
    of possibility that another drug could be developed that prevents the
    current set of tests from finding the metabolites of the banned
    substances (by turning them into new, unrecognized substances or
    causing them to be flushed from the body in a faster than normal
    manner.) In such a case, testing "clean" would hardly be evidence of
    innocence.
    
     Note that the above is a hypothetical, not an accusation or
    speculation about what is really the case. I have no opinion about
    whether Smith has used banned substances, and I am not particularly
    concerned about it. Just trying to be clear, lest someone else
    mistakenly conclude I'm accusing anyone of anything.

    
> btw, for all the doubting Thomas' out there, sports history
> is filled with literally thousands of underdogs rising to
> the occasion and performing far beyond their history of
> performance in a moment's time. 

    I know of few cases where someone has been an established international
    athlete for 8 years and then had an amazing improvement of performance. 
   
    Smith swam in the 88 and 92 Olympics and came in around 25th in all her
    events and is 26 years old, which is a very unusual age for such a
    dramatic performance improvement.  Suddenly having a drastic improvement
    in performance and becoming a gold medalist now after marrying a
    athlete nabbed for using drugs sure *looks* bad.  
                            
    The coverage is so bad, however, that lots of information is missing that
    would shed a lot of light on the situation.  We know Smith recently
    moved to Holland to train in an Olympic size pool.  We know nothing
    about how she used to train and how she trains now ... has her yardage
    doubled? does she train with other world-class swimmers where she used
    to train alone?  If someone would provide some of these type facts it would
    sure make it easier to get a handle of what the truth might be.

    Greg

                                                                         

-1 but Doc, you can apply that hypothetical to most
   every event, sports related or not.

   hey, Clinton could be innocent of all charges and
   may have never cheated on his wife, if you reverse
   the hypothetical. :-)

   P.S. i believe you are not accusing...

>-1 but Doc, you can apply that hypothetical to most
>   every event, sports related or not.
    
    Hey, OJ Simpson was found no guilty of murdering his ex and her friend,
    but that doesn't mean he factually did not commit the murders.

 re  314



 70% of Americans agree with you!

>>That makes her innocent right?
>
>	The rules specify the drugs and types of drugs that are banned.
>	The governing bodies test for the drugs or the types of drugs
>	that are banned. She has been tested for all of these substances.
>	All the tests have been negative. By definition, this makes her
>	inocent.
>
>Jim

In my mind that makes her not guilty.

    <<< Note 553.311 by WAHOO::LEVESQUE "you don't love me, pretty baby" >>>

>    As for Jim's assertion that testing clean makes her innocent, I am
>    forced to scoff at the naivety of such a comment. That's like saying
>    that prior to the invention of the means to observe a virus that
>    viruses didn't exist.

	No, it is not. It called "playing inside the rules". You read the
	rules carefully and then you find the loopholes. Then you use those
	loopholes to your advantage. There is nothing wrong with such an
	approach. It is used in numerous sporting competitions.

> Let's suppose for the sake of argument that Smith
>    has indeed taken performance enhancing drugs, and furthermore that
>    people involved have a scientific understanding of the underlying
>    chemistry involved in the testing process. It is not out of the realm
>    of possibility that another drug could be developed that prevents the
>    current set of tests from finding the metabolites of the banned
>    substances

	It is not outside the realm of possibility that Smith is the
	space alien child of Elvis Presley either, but is is hardly
	probable.

>     Note that the above is a hypothetical,

	It exceeds hypothetical and goes straight to speculative fiction.

Jim

<<< Note 553.316 by CADSYS::FENNELL "Nothing is planned by the sea and the sand" >>>

>In my mind that makes her not guilty.

	If we were dealing with a court of law I might agree. But here we
	are dealing with someone who has not been officially accused, 
	nor has even the smallest evidence of wrongdoing been found.
	That's "innocent" in any reasonable definition of the word.

Jim

    .307
    
    \>however, she is guilty by association because her
    \>boyfriend, a t&f man, was disqualified for using
    \>performance-enhancing drugs.
           
    \a) Quite a long time ago.        
    \b) She tested clean. That's C L E A N.  ok? More tests ever
    \y day show she is CLEAN. If any tests show she isn't, then 
    \condemn her.
    
    i was being facetious, okay?  F A C E T I O U S.

>          <<< Note 553.319 by LANDO::OLIVER_B "it's about summer!" >>>

	<snicker>

    
    	I missed Dominique Dawes' floor exercise, but I did notice that
    	she ended up with a 9.  Someone here told me that she stepped
    	off the mat, but there had to be more to it than that to lose a
    	whole point, yes?
    

  .321  she nearly fell down at the end of a tumbling series.

    
    	Hmmm, so she almost tumbled after a series of tumbles?
    
    	I'd think she'd get extra credit for that.
    

    She actually fell prior to going out of bounds.

�          <<< Note 553.283 by 30188::OLIVER_B "it's about summer!" >>>
�
�    however, she is guilty by association because her
�    boyfriend, a t&f man, was disqualified for using
�    performance-enhancing drugs.

    Would it make a difference if he were a t&a man??
kb

It could have been that she's just a great athlete.

Naw, I guess it couldn't be that...

    What's the deal with Dawes and Miller?  They go into the floor exercise
    1st and 2nd, and they BOTH blow it.  Sheesh.  I really feel for them,
    though, that would be tough to swallow.  
    
    I think that a 9.0 was a bit low for Dawes.  Up to the near-fall out of
    bounds, she had performed very well.  They must have taken off 8/10 of 
    a point for that one mistake.  
    
    Miller stepped out AND made several mistakes, her score was not much
    out of line, IMO (I still thought it was a bit low).
    
    Who ended up winning the gold?  I went to bed after the back to back
    screw-ups.
    
    
    -steve

    > What's the deal with Dawes and Miller?  They go into the floor exercise
    > 1st and 2nd, and they BOTH blow it.  Sheesh.  I really feel for them,
    > though, that would be tough to swallow.  
    
    I thought that swallowing wasn't going to be an Olympic event until
    the 2000 Olympics, along with chess and fingernail trimming.
    
    Chris

    .326
    
    i give up.

   .329  ;>

	still workin' on that sarcasm smiley face thing, Bonbon?

    why, you weisenheimer! 
    
    ;-)

Re women's gymnastics all-around:
    
>    Who ended up winning the gold?  I went to bed after the back to back
>    screw-ups.
>    
    
    Lilia Podkopayeva of Ukraine took gold (she's also the current world
    champion). Romanians took silver and bronze: Gina Gogean took the
    silver and Simona Amanar and Lavinia Milosovici, the 1992 Olympic
    bronze medallist, tied for bronze.

    re: .332
    
    Wait a minute, what happened to Mo Hui Xlian (sp!! I know that
    is not correct)?  She was in first place when I went to bed....
    
    

    -1 She had to score 9.870 to clinch gold in the floor exercise but
     she stepped out of the mat and scored 9.600. She finished fourth.

    Hmmm, they must have shrunk the floor mat last night,
    every other gymnist seemed to step out.  I'm sure this
    is my naiviety in the sport showing, but I would think
    the floor exerecises would be the easiest item in the
    rotation.  I mean, you get to stay on the ground the
    whole time.  But while they were sticking 4 and 5
    series of flips on the high beam, they were blowing
    the floor exercises left and right.  I don't get it.

  it's hard to achieve a glossy mat finish.

    Combination of flips, twists, speed, height *and*
    confined space *and* use all of apparatus == REALLY NOT EASY.
    
    								-mr. bill

    Tomorrow is being billed as "Super Saturday" for Canada - our rowing
    team is supposed to kick butt!  It's also the final for the mens 100
    metre - our hopes are high.  All 3 Canadians (Surin, Bailey and Gilroy)
    made it through their heats today. I hope I get to cheer for the Maple 
    Leaf at least a couple of times.
    
    Predictions for the 100 metre?
    
    I'm going to say.....	Gold	Bruny Surin
    				Silver	Frankie Fredericks
    				Bronze	Donovan Bailey
    
    I didn't realize until today that there is no practice track at the
    Stadium - it's a 12 minute ride away (sure.... I bet it's not with all
    the traffic problems they've been having)  In my best Ross imitation...
    "well, that's just dumb!"

    
| it's hard to achieve a glossy mat finish.
    
    Not according to one "critic."
    
    								-mr. bill

    re .306, Andy....
    
    	*BLUSH!*  I just found out the British meaning of that
        f-word I used  =8'O  :')  but glad it gave you a laugh!
    
    And as the Doctah says, chacun a son gout as far as body shape goes.
    (On fat distribution and percentage, I take comfort in the phrase,
    "Fat feels good in bed!")
    
    re: replies about asthma and Dolan
    
    I went back to that impeccable source, TV Guide :-) to review what
    I'd read about Dolan, and the profile said his oxygen intake is
    limited (all the time, one must assume) by an unusually narrow
    windpipe.  It also said his asthma is exercise-induced, so while
    sitting on one's duff may not be the best way to deal with asthma,
    it would seem that extreme exertion may not be the best way for him,
    either.
    
    Leslie  (Great name, agreed!  Not sure why the 'rents chose the
    traditionally male spelling for it as a given name but I do like it
    better than Lesley) 

    
    	RE: Stepping off the mat
    
    	I think that the athletes are also trying to do more complicated
    	maneuvers, which requires more floor space ... and when they're
    	off a bit they just sort of bounce out of bounds.
    

    
    	Oh, and who was the girl that did that triple twist dismount
    	off the side of the balance beam?  That was really neat.
    

    Two Spanish fencers were arrested for indecent exposure.  They were
    slightly intoxicated and urinated in the presence of females at the
    Olympic village.  Charges against Jose Francesco Guerra and Oscar
    Fernandez have been dropped.

        Charged for behaving like Spaniards eh?

    For those of you who don't watch the tube, or who are still stuck
    at work.... an "explosion" occured about an hour ago at the
    Olympic Centenial Park.
    People have been killed.  The explosion was most likely a bomb.

    Any more details?
    
    meg

    Reports are that it was a pipe bomb.  Two people killed, more than 100
    injured.  There was a 911 call before the explosion, made from a pay
    phone near Centennial Park, and the tape is being analyzed.  The park
    was one of the few public places where there was no metal detector - it
    was thus packed "like sardines," says one NPR reporter, and it would
    also be easy for a bomber to get in.
    
    Flags are flying at half mast at all Olympic venues, and the events of
    the day were begun with a moment of silence.
    
    Security has been stepped up - at Lake Lanier, where the rowing events
    are behing held, soldiers are patrolling with loaded fully automatic
    rifles.

    .319 That's not facetious, that's   S N I D E.

    Don't worry, Oph. Not all of us were unable to figure out what you were
    saying. (Not that we would have insisted we knew better than you what
    you meant had we misread you, either, but, well, you get the
    picture...)

    congrats to Canada and Donovan Bailey for a new, clean world record in
    the 100. Pretty strange race, all told. 3 false starts, including two
    by defending gold medalist Linford Christie. To be quite honest,
    although the first one was a clear false start, the last two seemed
    pretty fair to the naked eye.
    
    And how about that US/Australia softball game? What was up with that? A
    US player hit a home run, but the Aussie's appealed that she failed to
    touch home plate and she was sent back to third base where she was
    stranded. So instead of being 1-0, USA, it was 0-0 until extra innings.
    In extra innings in softball at the Olympics, they put a runner on 2nd
    base at the start of each inning. In the US half of the final inning,
    they scored to make it 1-0. The US pitcher who had pitched a perfect
    game whiffed the first two aussie batters and got two strikes on the
    third when she gave up a home run, winning the game for the aussies.
    The aussie announcers were dumbstruck, as were the americans. Strange
    ending to a strange game. Hopefully the US will bounce back and be even
    stronger for the experience.
    
     I was simply shocked by the scoring in the floor exercise (men's) last
    night. Everything was normal until the final few competitors. Until
    that point I had been guessing scores within .25 points for each
    competitor. I thought Nemov had a very strong performance. They
    underscored him slightly, and compounded the error by overscoring the
    greek competitor. His tumbling runs were good, but he had no artistry
    or poise, IMO. Then the chinese competitor had what appeared to me to
    be far and away the best routine, and he was scored under the greek. It
    made no sense at all- he stuck every landing. I scored it a 9.875, and
    they scored it a 9.837. He should have taken the gold.

    .336  9.2, 9.4, 9.5, 9.0, 10.0 and a 6.0 from the Russian judge.

    > ... and a 6.0 from the Russian judge.
    
    Nice to know some things never change.

    
      The bombing had all the telltale signs of an amateur from the US.
    
      I've changed my mind.  Beach volleyball is actually a sport.
    
      Unlikely countries have taken gold : Italy in the men's rings;
     Greece in the men's floor exercise; Syria in the women's heptathalon.
     (Quick : name the events in a women's heptathalon.)
    
      In a battle of unbeatens, Cuba defeated the US in a wold baseball
     game, 10-8.  Dreamers crushed the Croats.  US women's soccer goes
     on to the finals v. China.  US gymnasts did nothing execept Amy
     Chow took a silver on bars.  Stunning victory for the US' Charles
     Austen in the high jump at 7'10".  Carl Lewis qualified for today's
     long jump final, with the longest jump on his third try.  A gold
     would tie Al Oerter's record of 4 golds in different Olympics.
     The US was elimnated in tennis doubles, despite Agassiz.
    
      bb

    
      Oh yes, and a Swiss (of Chinese origin) won the men's pommel
     horse.
    
      bb

 I wonder if anyone is keeping track of how many times the various clips
 of the blast have been replayed..better yet, how many times in an hour
 on CNN.



 Jim

    Canadian rowers did well this past weekend.
    
    1 gold
    3 silver
    2 bronze

    .348
    
    /That's not facetious, that's   S N I D E.
    
    oh no, sweetie darling.  you are wrong again.
    snide would describe the "reporters" who chose
    to include this bit of data in their news articles.
    my facetious comment is pointed directly at them.
    get it now?

     Oph! ;>

     Poor Andy, didn't catch on right away, so he
     had to resort to a wimpy little retort.
     Tragic, really.


     

    
    I would have to say, I think that was the best I've witnessed of
    the USA swim team. 13 gold medals in all. Bravo, dudes and dudettes.

        
    	RE: Bomb
    
    	I hate to say this, but the sad part of this whole thing is
    	that I'm surprised it took this long to happen.  I suspected
    	that the ideal time to pull something like this off would
    	have been during opening ceremonies, although I'm sure that
    	the security for that night was practically impenetrable.
    
    	I'm sure that they also knew that something like this was
    	bound to happen, but they can't cover all the bases, and
    	something was bound to slip through.
    

    Steve Redgrave took a Gold in rowing for the 4th successive Olympics.

>     (Quick : name the events in a women's heptathalon.)

Hepatitis A, B, C, D, E, F, and G.

    i liked it when the greek gymnast got the gold
    for his floor exercise.  first time since 1896!

    
    	Wow, it's very rare that a guy would have to wait 100 years
    	between gold medals.
    
    	I applaud his decision not to give up.
    

    >i liked it when the greek gymnast got the gold
    >for his floor exercise.  
    
     I was glad he performed well and thought he deserved a medal, but his
    was not the best performance.

    i was torn.  i was happy that he won, but the
    chinese guy's performance seemed flawless.  not
    that the greek kid's performance rated very high.

    After the team competition, Ioannis Melissanidis was 2nd,
    Li Xiaoshuang was 4th on the floor.
    
    That qualified them for the individual floor exercise.
    I thought Ioannis Melissanidis performance was better in the final.
    
    
    (I still want to know why 1/4 rotation off (plus or minus) on the 10
    meter platform results in scores of "2.something" while kissing the
    pommel horse with your face nets a "9.something".  On the "that's
    gotta hurt" scale, it seems like they'd both be damn close.)
    
    								-mr. bill

 posted on behalf of The Executioner, lucky Jack:

TTWA1:

	Have the laws of physics changed substantially in recent times
	such that the incandescence from a photo phlash from the stands
	at an Olympic Stadium event is sufficient to actually illuminate
	anything more than 10 to 15 feet away?

TTWA2:

	How many Olympic spectators are going to be thrilled with the fine
	phlash photographs of the headtops of the folks within the few rows
	ahead of them against a dark, or, perchance, a brightly	illuminated
	but nondescript background?

TTWA3:

	Whether or not the energy wasted in the innappropriate firing of
	several thousands of sagans of phlash bulbs in Atlanta during the
	Centennial games during this calendar year would be sufficient to
	bring, for example, Biafra or Sri Lanka, out of its third world
	status?

    Carl Lewis won his gold. Mike Powell hurt himself badly. Joe Greene was
    third with a (nameless) Jamaican in 2nd.
    
    The 400m was a foregone conclusion with Roger Black of the UK getting
    silver.
    
    The US is out of the handball competition. Monica Seles is out of the
    tennis.
    
    The 400m women was won by a fast russian, Mutola's tactics were
    crappier than usual.
    
    <yawn>

    
    <----- other than all that, just another day at the Olympics.

    Nice to see Shannon Miller coming back from several subpar performances
    in the individual all-around and individual events to win a gold on the
    balance beam in her last ever olympic competition. She'd been such a
    steadying influence on her teammates during the team competition but
    had fallen apart so much during the individual all-around and
    individual events that it was good to see her suck it up and regain 
    her composure and nail her routine.
    
    I thought the american gymnast who won the silver on the parallel bars
    was pretty courageous considering the holes he had on his hands. He had
    a near flawless performance that must have been quite painful.
    

    <-- Agreed, Herr Doctah.  I think Dawes got a low score on the
        floor exercise.  I thought the bars were scored a *lot* more
        consistency than the floor.  Course, that's just my .02
    
    
    Mike
    

    <-- oops, please insert a "with" after the word "score".
    
    
    Mike
    

    >I think Dawes got a low score on the
    >floor exercise.  I thought the bars were scored a *lot* more
    >consistency than the floor.  
    
     I didn't see the Romanian's whole routine, but from what I did see I
    was surprised that she outscored Dawes. I did think that Prodkopayeva's
    routine was a gold medal winning routine when I saw it.

    If I'm thinking of the right one (Prodkopayeva) while it was a
    very good routine, I thought it lacked some tougher elements, and
    only had two passes...
    
    Mike aka Mr. Short term memory
    
    
    

    Dina Kechetkova. Fwoooarrrrrr!

    It was of course the 800m, not 400m that the russian won.

    re: .368
    
	> Have the laws of physics changed substantially in recent times
	> such that the incandescence from a photo phlash from the stands
	> at an Olympic Stadium event is sufficient to actually illuminate
	> anything more than 10 to 15 feet away?
    
    Bwah-hah!  I always think of this, too, whenever I see it on TV or
    at some event, usually outdoors and involving moderately long
    distances.  Most flashes are ineffective much beyond 15 feet, and
    even the most powerful detachable units (which only a few people
    seem to have) aren't much use beyond 40 feet or so, if I recall.
    
    Now, this would be one thing if people did it once, saw the results
    when the photos came back from the lab, and then never did it again.
    But they keep doing it, and doing it.  Of course, one problem is that
    many of today's no-brainer cameras have a built-in flash and some kind
    of "foolproof" fail-safe that disables the shutter release if the light
    level is too low and the flash isn't turned on, or something like that.
    
    But still.  If you want to take photos in such settings, you really
    need to buy a better camera/flash and learn something about photography.
    Most of these events are quite well-illuminated for TV or whatever,
    and if you get a single-lens reflex camera with a fast lens (say, f1.7),
    you can actually take reasonable flash-less photos under these
    conditions with the lens fully open (I'd say "diaphragm", but that
    would land me in the "Phrases that sound sexy but aren't" topic),
    and a shutter speed of about 1/30 or so, just enough to minimize
    blurring caused by camera movement.
    
    Chris

re .368:

At least that makes more sense than those who try to photograph fireworks
with a flash camera!

    > I thought the american gymnast who won the silver on the parallel bars
    > was pretty courageous considering the holes he had on his hands. He had
    > a near flawless performance that must have been quite painful.
    
    Indeed... and considering today's panic-mode thinking regarding
    "biohazards" (or whatever the correct term is), I'm surprised that
    the powers-that-be let athletes perform with what appeared to be
    open exposed wounds that directly contact the apparatus.
    
    Chris

> At least that makes more sense than those who try to photograph fireworks
> with a flash camera!
    
    By the way, the settings that I mentioned earlier (e.g., f1.7 at 1/30)
    work pretty well for fireworks too.  I always take too damned many
    fireworks photos (slides, usually).  They're pretty to look at, but
    ultimately monotonous.  Fireworks is one of those "you gotta be there"
    things.
    
    Chris

    
|At least that makes more sense than those who try to photograph fireworks
|with a flash camera!
    
    ...through a window.
    
    								-mr. bill

re .381:

Fireworks shot with a few seconds exposure (on a tripod of course) look very
impressive.  The picture don't look like what really happened but it can be
very nice.

re .382: agagagagaga!

         Shannon Miller finally got a gold - she looked pretty sorry
    Sunday night. Any bets on whether or not Carl Lewis will try for a
    tenth gold medal? 

    Walker,
    
    While doing an interview with Bob Costas last night, Lewis indicated
    that he would LOVE to try for a 10th gold medal, but the only event
    left for him is a relay race and the coach has apparently
    told Lewis that he (Lewis) would not be part of the relay team.
    
    

    Lewis continues to be a jerk. Along with every other US athlete who
    failed at the trials in an event, he didn't get selected for the relay.
    
    If he runs, he may well cause the US to fail in their attempt for Gold
    - he was last in the trial.

    
      In 393 AD, the Emperor Theodosius abolished the Olympic Games,
     citing boycotts, corruption, and poor sportsmanship as his reasons.
    
      It was 1896 before humanity decided these were no longer a danger.
    
      bb

    
    Andy, you sure seem to have a bug up your ass in regards to US
    atheletes this Olympics. Or is it just my imagination?

    Imagination. I have nothing but regard for many american athletes, but
    Lewis' 9 golds do not make him a saint - or worthy of selection for an
    event that he failed to qualify for.
    
    May I say that Mike Powell had a rough time and I have every sympathy
    for the poor soul.

    
    Couple of comments on the Olympics...
    
    The most amazing performance I have seen was the one by
    Dominique Moceanu on the balance beam where she feel on her head
    and somehow, somehow managed to not only finish the routine, but
    finished it beautifully.
    
    I am also extremely impressed with the photography; most
    notably on the diving events.
    
    							Hank

    -1
    
    It's too bad she fell...she had a great routine going.  

    >Lewis continues to be a jerk. 
    
     Upon what do you base this assessment?
    
    >If he runs, he may well cause the US to fail in their attempt for Gold
    >- he was last in the trial.
    
     Did you watch the trial? Do you know why he was last? I'm betting you
    are noting from a position of ignorance.

>          <<< Note 553.392 by WAHOO::LEVESQUE "inhale to the chief" >>>
>    >Lewis continues to be a jerk. 
>     Upon what do you base this assessment?
    
    Years of interviews, both tv and written.
    
    
>    >If he runs, he may well cause the US to fail in their attempt for Gold
>    >- he was last in the trial.
>     Did you watch the trial? Do you know why he was last? I'm betting you
>    are noting from a position of ignorance.

    No-one else is a special case. Gwen Torrance didn't qualifdy for her
    favoured event, no-one said "Hey, she's the Olympic 200m champ, let her
    do it!". Over the years the US Olympic TRials have been cruel but
    equally so to everyone. To make a special case for Lewis would be to
    make a mockery of years of good practise.
    
    /a
    

	Steve, did something happen during the run that made him come in last?



Glen

    >Years of interviews, both tv and written.
    
     So in other words, there's nothing he's done lately to earn your
    scorn. So "continues" is based more on your biases than anything he's
    done or said. Figures.
    
    >No-one else is a special case. 
    
     You're funny. If you knew what you were talking about you might be
    dangerous. The coach has discretion over who is on the relay team, same
    as for other sports, same as for other countries. Two examples that
    contradict your false assertion that "No-one else is a special case"
    are the women's swimming relay team in which Jenny Thompson anchored
    the team (to a pair of gold medals) despite having a poor US trials
    meet in which she did not qualify for a single individual event, and
    the decision by the Romanian gymnastics coach to replace individual
    female gymnasts who had qualified for the individual apparatus events
    with other team members because he felt it gave them a better
    opportunity to medal. It is up to the coach to set the relay teams, and
    his job is to use the athletes who have the best chance of winning
    regardless of their trials performance. You can disagree with this
    notion all you want, but it's been in place for years, and to claim it
    doesn't happen is to be ignorant of the facts.
    
     Since I'm feeling generous today, I'll tell you why Lewis in the 100M
    final. The practice track is a 10 minute bus trip from Olympic Stadium.
    During the trials, the weather was HOT. At the time, they were using
    air conditioned buses to shuttle the athletes from the practice stadium
    to the Olympic Stadium. This caused a number of athletes to cramp,
    including Lewis. So while he'd had some very strong preliminary races,
    he got a cramp for the final. BFD. He's still a great sprinter. So he's
    arrogant. At least he doesn't refuse to leave the track after being
    DQ'ed for a pair of false starts.
    
     I don't really care one way or another whether he's put on the relay
    team. It's the coach's decision. End of story.

I thought Dwight Stone's comment that Lewis should run in the relay for the 
good of track and field as a sport was an interesting approach.  If Lewis does
run in the relay it will be more for the marketing of the sport than anyone
believes that Lewis is one of the four strongest runners.  I understand that 
several sports may be dropped because they don't draw well or don't generate
enough fan interest (baseball is an example of a sport that is being considered
for being dropped) and replaced with new "sports" (don't be surprised if the 
large TV audience drives ballroom dancing to become an Olympic sport and we 
someday listen to the national anthem being played for the gold medal winner 
in the Tango).  Emperor Theodosius didn't have commercialism on his list of 
reasons to abolish the Olympic Games.

Jim

    It would help some sports if the cameras weren't switched off once the
    americans had been eliminated - one of the sailing competitions has a
    brit in, but we were told NBC weren't providing coverage.
    
    THis may well be untrue of course, but if it is .... fails word me.

    Sailing was not to be covered at all.  I also found this to be quite sad
    given the number of fleets competing and the number of athletes
    involved.  Far more exciting to watch than skeet, synchronized swimming
    or badminton.  IMO of course.   

    Watching a sailing competition is, for the average American couch
    potato, almost - but not quite - as interesting as picking belly button
    lint.
    
    Skeet and badminton are at least relatively fast-moving sports; shot
    travel at speeds approaching that of sound, and shuttlecocks hit a
    screaming 200 MPH.
    
    Synchronized swimming is much underrated; it is in the same league as
    women's floor exercise except that there are eight women out there at
    the same time.  Its athleticism impresses me and its visual beauty
    strokes my sense of aesthetics.

    
      Watch sailing ?  Don't tell me living humans voluntarily watch
     sailing !  Sail themselves, sure.  But, I mean, watch it ?
    
      bb

>     <<< Note 553.400 by SMURF::BINDER "Errabit quicquid errare potest." >>>
>    Watching a sailing competition is, for the average American couch
>    potato, almost - but not quite - as interesting as picking belly button
>    lint.
    
    ..and so a new Olympic sport is born.

    >  Watch sailing ?  Don't tell me living humans voluntarily watch
    > sailing !  Sail themselves, sure.  But, I mean, watch it ?
    
     Well, the America's Cup has been worth watching on occasion.

    Lewis was neither arrogant or whining during his interview with
    Costas.  He said he would LIKE to run the relay, he didn't say
    he was ENTITLED to run the relay.  I think his reaction was
    *human*, not arrogant.  Lewis is bright enough to realize that if
    he ran the relay and the team lost, he still wouldn't get that
    10th medal.
    
    

    I've never particularly liked Lewis, but it seems that this year, the
    fact that age is catching up with him is both reducing his arrogance to
    tolerable levels as well as making him a quasi-sympathetic figure.

    did anyone watch the weight-lifting contest?
    what does it mean to "win the snatch"?

    It means you can perform oral sex?

Re: Watching Sailing

I thought so at one time also.  Being landlocked in the
midwest doesn't provide much opportunity for sailing
let alone watching it.

However, when the Americas Cup was off Australia (8-10 years ago?)
I was facinated by the race.  I must admit that the coverage
was great (I can't remember who carried it).  They had cameras
on many of the boats and from several other angles.  The direction
was superb, and I think they did a good job of fostering excitement.

    Yes, watching it.  Sailing is tactics and crew work.  One design sailing
    as in the Olympics is extremely difficult to be competetive.  The boats
    are all the same with small exceptions allowed by the rules.  I will 
    grant you that some races turn into a parades but for the informed, 
    sailing can be quite exciting to watch.  Tornadoes (cats) are fast and can 
    provide for a lot of excitement as a spectator.  If the conditions are 
    rough, it is even that much more exciting to watch.  Like I said, IMO.  

    
    	Yeah, sailing ranks right up there with golf on the "lullabye
    	sports" list.
    

I used to participate in one design sailing racing and a good race can get
quite interesting at times, the heavier the wind the more "interesting".
I think good coverage could be provided if they covered the start and the
first to arrive at the course marks, and in between they can cover other
sports.  But certainly continuous coverage wouldn't make it.

What class(es) of one designs are raced in the Olympics?

    .407
    
    no, i don't think it means that.

    Stars and Tornadoes for sure.  Lasers, 470, Finns?  There were at least 
    5 classes I believe.  I agree on how the coverage should be.  Mark
    roundings, starts, and the finish with very little in between.  

    >did anyone watch the weight-lifting contest?
    >what does it mean to "win the snatch"?
    
     That means bringing the weight above your head in a single,
    uninterrupted motion. As opposed to the 'clean and jerk' where you pick
    the weight up to your clavicle, then press it above your head in a
    second motion.

>    what does it mean to "win the snatch"?

In West By Gawd Virginee, it might mean you outran your sister...

re .413:

Do they race Snipes?  I think they used to.

    Olympic class boats are as follows.
    
    Mistral	Board sailing
    Finn	Singlehanded men
    Europa 	Singlehanded women
    Laser	Open dinghy
    470		Doublehanded women
    Star	Doublehanded men
    Tornado	Multihull
    	
    The Flying Dutchman was booted as was the Soling.  
    
    With a max of 30 craft competing in each class, there were a possible
    300 or more atheletes competing.  No coverage other than a few cameos 
    during the stupid montages they have been doing.  :-/
    
    	

    
     >Finn        Singlehanded men
     >Europa      Singlehanded women
    
    That's nice that they include amputees in the competition.
    

    .418   agagagagag.

re .417:

oh, it was the Flying Dutchman that I was thinking of, not the Snipe.
(they had cool spinnakers)

re .418:

...and underendowed flashers, too.

>    Laser	Open dinghy

    I find that racing a Mistral One Design in light winds is much more
    challenging than a decent breeze.  So evenly matched that it's
    virtually all tactics.  Must be painful to watch tho'.
    
    Colin

    Is it becoming a trend or something as to why I keep seeing US athletes
    make there victory laps or whatever carrying the flag upside down.
    Just curious.
    -ss

 You are aware, I assume,of the impact of curiousity on the cat.

>>    It would help some sports if the cameras weren't switched off once the
>>    americans had been eliminated - one of the sailing competitions has a
>>    brit in, but we were told NBC weren't providing coverage.
    
	..read this...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NBC coverage of Olympics...
Date: Thursday, August 01, 1996 10:12AM


This kinda reflects a very popular feeling regarding the olympic coverage
by NBC...This is a letter from a British Student here to her friend in UK.


Helen,
Right now we are suffering through American coverage of the olympics. Mark,
 it is beyond a joke. Aside from being extremely biased the commentary is
 horrid. It is boring, offensive (Axel tries to be PC and call it culturally
 insensitive) and nauseating. We watch entire swimming races knowing only
 that Todd (Team USA!!)  is in lane 5 and that his wife is dying of cancer.
 We have come to the conclusion that you can't go to the olympics unless you
 have a) lost a close relative to breast cancer, b) your wife/husband is in 
a
 coma and c) you either had a baby within the last eight years or are making
 a comeback (having retired two weeks before).

 They have these little mini movies about the atheletes they usuallyshow
 them when there is a race with no americans or if it's gymnastics and the
 chinese are preforming. If the little movie is about an American you hear
 about their dedicationand hard work, how they have a teddy bear named Fuzzy
 (she's just your average all American girl) and their mother, grandmother,
 or neighbours uncle is suffering from complications following an operation
 for an ingrown toenail and the gold medal is in honour of this poor sick
 person.

 If however the athlete is chinese then we hear about how at age seven the
 chinese government noticed her talent and her mother gave her up for the
 good of the nation. Yes the mother sacrificed her daughter (this is a 
quote)
 and sent her  1500km away. Then we have a series of rhetorical questions
 "Does her mother know that little Mo Chee Wee Fan has a friend called Wee
 Mee Wong?" " Does she know who her daughter is, her fears etc?" " Does her
 mother know that Mo has a 200 sisters at her new school" And they drawl on
 and on like a funeral dirge. You hear a piano sadly plinking in the
 background.

 Meanwhile when you do see the chinese team you have never seen a happier,
 healthier looking bunch of girls. The Americans on the other hand look like
 they all need a dose of Prozac and suffer from bulimia. You can see STRESS
 written across their forheads and see their parents and you know they are
 living the dream of some maniac parent who never made it. Meanwhile Mo
 Chee's mother is busy bringing in the rice harvest and although she 
probably
 boasts about Mo's achievements she probably doesn't really care whether Mo
 was a gymnast or not and would love her just as much if she had an injury
 and would never tumble again.
 The American coverage brings out the worst on us. You sit with your friends
 and wish hateful shit on americans. We will them to drown, to trip, to 
break
 their necks and hope that the soft ball jams in their throats and
 chokes them.


 The Dream Team is playing against Angola (no doubt we shall hear the
 tragic war stories of each of the Angolan players). We were watching
 gymnastics before but a few Americans screwed up and they are now unlikely
 "to medal" (yes, " medal" is a verb now) so the coverage has switched to
 this basketball game which the Americans are bound to win.  We shall
 probably not hear a thing again about the men's gymnastics.

 Then there are  the medal ceremonies or should i say lack of them. One of
 the nice things about the Olympics is being able to see the different
 medalist on the podium. You know the pride as their anthem is played, the
 tears etc. We've had nothing but the bloody star spangled
 banner!! They don't show the medal ceremony unless an American has gotten
 gold. That way we can all clutch our hearts and sing "Oh say can you see".

 I'm telling you even when they get silver or bronze they don't show it. 
Well
 not the part where the gold medallists anthem is played.

 Then there was the opening ceremony:

 African nation enters - "Well here's another of those small African nations
 with no hope of winning a medal".
 (Did it ever occur to them that the vast majority of the 600 and how many
 atheletes they sent have ab-so-lute-ly no hope of winning a medal!)

 Cuba enters - "Wonder how many of them will be going back to Havana"

 Iraq enters - " This is that country which we fought in the gulf
 war....suspected of using chemical weapons"

 China enters - " Well i wonder how well they will do this year..now that
 they've cracked down on the drugs"

 Bolivia enters " Yes here is bolivia...this country was the last refuge of
 Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid"

 Then about the fantastic costumes in the opening ceremony." These costumes
 were made by Peter minshall who lives on a small island called trinidad
 where he makes them for the local carnival"
 Then at the end some paper doves are brought in " THESE DOVES WERE MADE BY
 WHAT'S HER FACE FROM CALIFORNIA, YES SHE DESIGNED THEM HERSELF, TOOK EIGHT
 WEEKS TO MAKE THEM!!!" then we get her entire resume, where she got her
 inspiration from etc. Eight weeks!!!!! Minshall was making his costumes
 since last year!!! Over a year it took him. All the costumes were made in
 Trinidad. The main dancers and preformers were from trinidad, but we got
 more commentary on those stupid chrome pick-up vans!

 Helen i could go on and on. All romanians are described as hungry waifs,
 mind you the American gymnasts who are just as stunted are cute and bubbly.
 Chinese athletes bear the weight of their nation on their shoulders the
 Americans are doing it for "Mom who died last year" or "my wife who almost
 died last year". "Since i was seven my dream was to win olympic gold" 
That's
 not their dream!! Nobody dreams of that when you are seven for
 christ's sake!!! you dream of icecream and playing with your friends the 
next
 day when you are seven. That was obviously their parents dream!

 These Americans really haven't
 got a clue about the Olympics it's all gold medals for them or "medalling"
 as they say. They think they've got the human side covered when they show
 these little movies and tell us these stupid stories. it's so forced! just
 show us the races or whatever. Just tell me what the gymnast is doing, what
 is that move called, how difficult is the routine compared to the other 
one.
 I don't want to know that he has a twin brother who he speaks to every
 night. I don't need this information when he's in the middle of his iron
 cross on the rings!!  When there is a race we like to know what is going on
 in ALL the lanes. we want sports commentary not fairy tales! The stories
 will make themselves. Show me a variety of sports and people from different
 countries winning. Forget the bloody medal count!

 This is seriously putting me off the Olympics... What i would do for some
 BBC coverage. OK they are a bit biased too (you do see an inordinate amount
 of equestrian events) they have to cater to their own, I don't blame NBC 
for
 that although they take it to the max. but the BBC gives you proper sports
 coverage like they would cover any other meet. I mean when you see a horse
 race you expect racing commentary (..and as they approach the five furlonge
 mark it's Red Rum out in front with Nirvana close behind etc). We don't
 expect to be told what the damn horse was like as a foal and what he eats
 for breakfast, and what his favourite colour is.

 With the BBC you see practically every medal ceremony. And they interview
 the winners at the end all of them, yes even if they are not british. And
 they tell you who is in each lane...yes even if it's only a heat. And the
 miracle of it all...no advertisements!

 Christine

    re: .424
    
    Thanks for reminding me why I haven't watched any of the Olympics for
    years.
    
    Bob

Dear Christine,

I'm not familiar with British TV but the Merkin kind have these two
wonderful devices. One changes the station and another turns the TV off.

Thank you for sharing.

Wishing you would get a life, etc...

I've been told that the word "Merkin" refers to a pubic wig.

nnttm.

Wasn't that a political rival of a pubic tory?.

How do you keep such a wig on?

> How do you keep such a wig on?
    
    Maybe Demi Moore has some spare clips.
    
    Chris

Does she keep half of them in her demisemiquaver?

    
    And does she crochet them?
    

    Today, a merkin is a pubic wig.  In certain repressed cities,
    naked-lady dancers are required to wear them to conceal the real stuff.
    
    200 years ago, a merkin was the wet mop with which a cannon was swabbed
    out to extinguish lingering cinders before the next charge was loaded.

    Boy, you merkins have really gone downhill recently.

    .434
    
    I'll bet you're glad you got that off your chest.

    .424
    
    Christine,
    
    I read your entire note.  I'd have to say that we agree on a lot!  I
    remembered watching the Olympics and being educated on each country as
    they took their gold medals and I heard THEIR anthems. I remember as a
    kid when the English received a gold medal and how surprised I was that
    the anthem played was the same as ours.
    
    I miss good coverage of the events myself.  However, I take exception
    to your sweeping insults towards Americans.   A media coverage does not
    a country make.
    
    Nancy
    
    
    

    
    .424
    
    typical brit response. i think they secretly wish they were 'muricans.
    
    the author I'm afraid needs prozac, and bad.

    .437
    
    I'm insulted!

>>    typical brit response. i think they secretly wish they were 'muricans.

	I should say I agree with most of whats been said in that mail, and 
especially about the commentary during the opening ceremony. Some of the 
comments ranged from silly to outrageous to a bit insulting.

	I am not sure if they showed any badminton at all, at least not during
prime time. Not surprising considering that Americans are not tipped to 'medal'
in badminton.

/Jay

    
    we don't need no stinking medal in badminton. we've already taken the
    gold in the good sports. basketball, swimming, track & field. etc...
    
    while I will admit, some of NBC's comments have been incredibly
    stupid. overall it's ok. Also, the games are in the USA, why wouldn't
    they focus on American teams, individuals, etc....  When the games
    move to Australia, they can concentrate on whomever they wish.

    re: 437
    
    >typical brit response. i think they secretly wish they were 'muricans.
    
    Uhhhhh, Yeah, and the pope smokes dope. 
    

Actually, some of what Christine says has merit. I remember in Olympics past
hearing many national anthems - if I came fresh to 96, I don't think I would 
have heard any other than USA. Granted I have not been watching religiously.

Their "up-close-and-personal" bits really suck this time - looks like they
hired some out-of-work art students - gave them the "theme" and let them go
for it. All the repetitive "eye" closeups. Anyone see the bit with the US
diver where he fell off the diving board into the water, to signify his
descent into depression? And backwards back out later. Laughable if it wasn't
so sickening.

Looks like lowest common denominator to me. But that's supply and demand I
guess. The big three networks catering to their core audience.

    
      Well, the Olympics had the 7 largest ratings in the USA in the
     first week, and have set records for viewers for Olympics, or any
     sort of sports.  It is sports that draw both genders, and it sells
     potato chips in vast quantities.  If I were them, I'd say the
     public has spoken, by glueing themselves to their sets for the
     whole thing.  Wouldn't change a thing.  The NBC executive offices
     probably have an Olympic size pool of advertizing money, for the
     chief officers to roll in, whenever they like.
    
      bb

    re: .444
    
    A lot of these "Olympic Moments" look like bad videos for
    MTV.....

> Actually, some of what Christine says has merit.
    
    Absolutely.  This is the most offensively nationalistic Olympic coverage
    ever (out of the 8 or 9 that I've seen).  Nothing else even comes close.
    
    
> Anyone see the bit with the US
> diver where he fell off the diving board into the water, to signify his
> descent into depression? And backwards back out later. Laughable if it wasn't
> so sickening.
    
    Oh, I saw it all right, and I was instantly on the floor screaming
    in laughter.  It's without a doubt one of the most pretentious,
    artsy-fartsy things I've ever seen on TV that backfired so badly.
    And then they did it again... and again... and then *backwards*,
    this time TA-DA! wearing his Olympic diving duds.  How inspiring.
    
    I guess we can blame Dick Ebersol, if it all has to come down to one
    person.  He's also the guy who ran "Saturday Night Live" in the early
    80's (while Lorne Michaels was in exile), and also gems like "Friday
    Night Videos", "Midnight Special", and "Late Night Wrestling" or
    whatever NBC's foray into weekend late-night wrestling was titled.
    
    He has explicitly stated time and time again that he's packaged the
    Olympics in this manner because this is how he thinks women want to
    see it.  Thus the gratifying irony of seeing the signature "Christine"
    at the bottom of her mostly-on-the-mark tirade.
    
    Once in a while, I'd like to see something where an American doesn't
    win the gold, or isn't in the running.  Once in a while, I'd like to
    see a medal ceremony where some other nation's anthem is played.  I
    mean, I'm as patriotic as anyone, but this is ridiculous.
    
    Chris

    re:  .424
    
    I agree with her on the mini-movies... enough is enough already.  I
    watched the Olympics while I ate dinner, but finally got aggravated
    enough to turn the TV off and go do something constructive.  More time
    was spent on the mini-movies than on showing the events.
    
    And just because an American isn't in the finals does not mean that the
    race/whatever isn't worth watching.
    
    Hmm... maybe I aught to thank NBC for boring me out of my inaction. 
    8^)                                

    The lack of medal ceremonies for non-USA athletes is nothing less than
    pitiful.  I mean, Greece takes a gold medal in gymnastics for the first
    time in 100 years and we don't get to see the ceremony.
    
    The commentary is totally outrageous, using "loaded" words to describe
    EVERYTHING.
    
    The worst, though, has to be the implication that if you got the silver
    or the bronze that you are a LOSER.  Come on now....the fact that you
    even got the Olympics at all is pretty impressive.  
    
    EEEEEEeeedddiots.
    
    Lisa

    .424
    
    Personally, I think she's full of it.  Of course the coverage is
    geared toward the Americans.  Why do you suppose other countries
    send members of their press/media to cover the games?  To provide
    the coverage that would be of interest to THEIR respective audiences.
    
    Am I to believe that if I were in London viewing the games that I
    wouldn't see ANY extra attention being paid to athletes from the UK?
    
    Methinks the comment about the Star Spangled Banner says it all;
    again, of course she's hearing it a lot.....we're way ahead in the
    medals race :-)  That aside, the US has suffered lots of "droughts"
    in previous games; we got to hear plenty of other anthems then. It's
    rather sad to see others feel we shouldn't be allowed to enjoy games
    held here in our country and applaud our athletes who are doing
    extremely well.  I refuse to apologize or be embarrassed because our
    athletes are kicking some butt (for a change) and our press/media is
    focusing on that!!
    
    .437 Mark, I agree :-)
                      
    

    Oh, and speaking of "The Star Spangled Banner", I wish that the IOC
    (or whoever selects these things) would've found a different version
    than the one they're using.  It has that loud, intentionally-dissonant
    sounding note on the "free" of "land of the free" at the end, and it's
    extremely grating.  Thank you.
    
    Chris

    -1  Chris,
    
    Would you rather the IOC would allow ACOG to have various "celebrities"
    sing it ala Roseanne?
    
    

    > Would you rather the IOC would allow ACOG to have various "celebrities"
    > sing it ala Roseanne?
    
    Arghk!  :-)  Hmmm, maybe they should have the athletes sing it
    themselves.  That might actually be interesting...
    
    But the version they're using is so... melodramatic, especially
    on that one "freeee" note.  Reminds me of "Victory at Sea", or
    something like that.
    
    Chris

    
    They should play All along the watch tower!
    
     Now thats an American song!
    
    Dave

    >Oh, and speaking of "The Star Spangled Banner", I wish that the IOC
    >(or whoever selects these things) would've found a different version
    >than the one they're using.  It has that loud, intentionally-dissonant
    >sounding note on the "free" of "land of the free" at the end, and it's
    >extremely grating.  Thank you.
    
     I find even more annoying the extra half rest after "last gleaming".
    Talk about ruining a rhythm.

    re: last few
    
    I think we've come up with some very good arguments for having
    America The Beautiful as our anthem ;-)
    
    As far as rhythm and verse; blame that on Francis Scott Key.
    
    Personally, Oh Canada is my favorite (and no, I do not have any
    Canadian ties).
    
    

>I do not have any Canadian ties

How 'bout Canadian shoes?

    re .449> ...them implication that if you got the silver or the bronze
           > then you are a LOSER
    
    Lisa, a recent Nike ad goes further than implication--it says "You're
    not winning the silver, you're losing the gold."
    
    In the Sportsmanship category, I hereby award them the Rusty Suppository.
    
    Leslie

    Our anthem was played twice and I was lucky to see both ceremonies.

>    As far as rhythm and verse; blame that on Francis Scott Key.
    
Actually the music is that of an old drinking song.  FSK just came up with
new words.

>    Personally, Oh Canada is my favorite (and no, I do not have any
>    Canadian ties).

I find the Canadian anthem neat as well (but I do have Canadian ties, sort of)

And like .-???? I found the old USSR anthem rather neat.

As to "America the Beautiful" the anthem, isn't that the one that's the same
music as "God Save the Queen"?  Might really confuse the Brits.

 America the Beautiful would never work..it mentions God, and we can't 
 have that.



 Jim

    
    God Save the Queen = My Country, Tis of Thee
    

 We sang "My Country Tis of Thee" in church last week (no need to go into
 the background as to why, but it was rather humorous).  Reminded me when
 I was in public school as a kid and we sang it then (after the pledge of
 allegience), something I'm sure doesn't happen today.



 Jim

    GStheQ is a bloody dirge.  The Sex Pistols are on a reunion tour in the
    states this week.  I wish they'd use their version.

re .462:

Doh! That's right...

    
    	RE: .462 etc.
    
    	I think that song is also referred to as "America", which could
    	explain the confusion with "America the Beautiful".
    

    I believe we should change our National Anthem to that beautiful song!

So basically, Americans stole the language from the English and then
plagarize their tunes.

 Actually, they should play the version of the Star Spangled Banner/America
 the Beautiful that Smokey Robinson sang at Fenway Park during the <gasp>
 1986 World Series..gives me goosebumps when I hear it.


 
Jim

    
> 1986 World Series..gives me goosebumps when I hear it.
    
    	Because it reminds you of Bill Buckner?
    

AAAAARRRRRRRRGH!
He said that name!

 I shoulda known better than to bring up that series, but it was a 
 beautifully done tune.



 Jim

    
    	I wonder if it would have worked out any differently had Bill
    	Buckner sang the National Anthem and Smokey Robinson played
    	1st base?
    

    The would have won by a miracle?

>So basically, Americans stole the language from the English and then
>plagarize their tunes.

The British cobbled together a form of communication based on bits and
pieces of languages used by occupying forces; it took America to make it a
language.

    The Anglo Saxons brought their language to Britain.  "British"
    or Brythonic Celtic had been around for a few thousand years before
    that.

    .478
    
    I wasn't aware that the Beaker People were classified as Celts.

    
      I can't remember when (Lichtenstein at the Lake Placid Winter
     Games ?), but I recall that in one ceremony, the gold medalist
     came from a country that had never gotten around to HAVING a
     national anthem.  I mean, what do you play if the Cook Islands
     win ?  Elevator music ?
    
      bb

    True Dick, "a thousand or so" for the Celts beforte the Angles turned
    up.

    
    	True Dick?
    
    	And the opposite of that would be ...
    
    	... anyone?  Bueller?
    

re .480:

Probably the same thing that happened so often at the 1992 Olympics whenever
those from the former USSR won, played the Olympic music.

| <<< Note 553.478 by SMURF::WALTERS >>>

| The Anglo Saxons brought their language to Britain.  

	Are they related to John Saxon?

    who he?

	He was the 7 million dollar man (the price went up).

    Oh.  A basketball player.

	That would be a minor league basketball player. This was the 2nd
version of the 6 million dollar man. But bionics went up, so this is the
result!

         Hey, anybody see the pentathlon? Now there's an event, combining
    shooting, fencing, running, swimming, and riding a horse. The Olympics
    need more events like that. 

    .489
    
    Was it ever on?  Seriously, if so, it had to be one of those brief 2
    minute updates.

    re .490
    
    I saw something about it on the BBC this morning, while I was lazing
    around the house.

         On Tuesday night I saw a report on this event. The American
    competitor only finished 16th, and I think the winner was from
    Kazakistan or some other remote country. This must be a very old event,
    but they didn't give any history.

	Old as in above 14?

    <<< Note 553.492 by MFGFIN::E_WALKER "Future Chevy Blazer Car Bomber" >>>

>This must be a very old event,
>    but they didn't give any history.

	I think that it's been in since the beginning of the modern
	games. One bit of trivia that they related was that Lt. (later
	General) George S. Patton competed as a pentathalete. He placed
	7th due to his poor showing during the marksmanship competition.

Jim

    Johnson sets a(nother) new world record in the 200 in winning the gold.
    What a race.

    Amazing, ain't it. Johnson wins the 200m & 400m and is Superman. His
    feat is 'unsurpassed' and 'wonderful'.
    
    Perec wins the womens 200m & 400m and is ignored.
    
    This is not just the 'murrican meedja, this is briddish meedja too.

  .496  SSDD

    >Perec wins the womens 200m & 400m and is ignored.
    
     It's no fun to be the second person to do something.

    Johnson wasn't the first to do it. Merely the first man.

>             <<< Note 553.497 by PENUTS::DDESMAISONS "person B" >>>
>  .496  SSDD
    
    Good to see you're considering the content of your response.

>       <<< Note 553.500 by 42333::LESLIE "Andy Leslie | DTN 847 6586" >>>
    
>    Good to see you're considering the content of your response.

	What - you don't know what the letters stand for, is that it?
	Or did you misunderstand what I meant by applying them there?
	What I meant is that it's nothing new for men's achievements
	to be played up more.

	Hope this helps.

    I misunderstood your intent.
    
    /a

>       <<< Note 553.502 by 42333::LESLIE "Andy Leslie | DTN 847 6586" >>>

>    I misunderstood your intent.

	We're even, then.  I misunderstood your location before
	(in regards to the UK media vs. BBC business - sorry about
	that). ;>

    
    Andy, doc means second as in females. Valerie Briscoe-Hooks was the
    first to win gold in the 200 and 400 meter races. LoS Angeles 1984.

    Dunno about that - it read as though he thought MJ was the first of
    either gender.

    
    I can't tell you how often I heard "if he wins gold in both the 200 and
    400, he'll be the first to do so" in the past weeks.  Actually, no, he
    was the third to do so.
    
    And let me understand this.  A dream team (watching them play puts people
    to sleep I guess) non-medal game gets plenty of air time.  Women's
    Football (WINING GOLD IN FRONT OF A CROWD OF 80K!) we get a snide
    "interesting choreography" comment, and we get to see more of the
    team in flags then we saw them playing.
    
    								-mr. bill

    Battis got it right. 
    
    >it read as though he thought MJ was the first of either gender.
    
    That doesn't make any sense. Even if I didn't know that V B-H had done
    it in 84, Perec completed her sweep before Johnson took to the track,
    so he still wouldn't have been first. That men get more publicity for
    doing something that women have already done is nothing new, nor any
    reason to get worked up about the US media in particular. It's not like
    they haven't done enough other things that are worth getting worked up
    over.

  .507  He said it wasn't just the US media.  And, well, it's not
	a _bad_ reason to get worked up.  In my humble opinion, of
	course. 

    
      The Japanese trounced the US men's baseball team in their
     semifinal, relegated the US to the bronze game v. Nicaragua.
    
      I am hoping the Japanese do the same to the vaunted Cubans,
     and take the gold.  I've always liked Japanese baseball.  If
     you are ever in Japan, try to get to a game - fascinating.
    
      bb

    >And let me understand this.  A dream team (watching them play puts people
    >to sleep I guess) non-medal game gets plenty of air time.  Women's
    >Football (WINING GOLD IN FRONT OF A CROWD OF 80K!) we get a snide
    >"interesting choreography" comment, and we get to see more of the
    >team in flags then we saw them playing.
    
     While I agree that this coverage didn't win any applause from me, NBC
    seems to be appealing to their target audience just fine. While I
    personally would have rather seen more of the women's gold medal game,
    I realize that my desires are not universally shared. More of the
    target audience would rather see the men's b-ball. (Not that they
    really showed all that much of it. They showed more diving than
    b-ball.)
    
     What's the deal with the team from Yugoslavia? Is this from Serbia or
    what? I know there's a team from Croatia. I thought Yugoslavia was an
    anachronistic term at this point.

    
      One thing the Olympics has convinced me of, is that I need to
     invest in a new atlas.  I cannot find these places in my old
     Rand-McNally.  Ah, for the days of colonialism and the USSR.
     Geography was so much better then...
    
      bb

    
    well Michael Johnson basically destroyed the field in the 200. I
    watched his semi-final run and he pulled up shortly after the turn.
    He could have set the record on that run if he wanted to.

	Did that Dan guy become the next Bruce Jenner? (but a cute version)

    Yes, he took the gold in the decatholon.

    US Women's Softball Team, Gold! 
    US Women's Soccer Team, Gold! (i think)

    Yugo girl!
    
    BTW- we also took gold in archery. And the guy who did it is only ~19
    or something. What a shot!

    
    I love watching archery no matter when it's on.

   <anticipating archery pun>

    the captain of the softball team is a 
    30-something surgeon.  she's called 
    "grandma" by her team mateys.  she hit
    a home run to clinch the game!  
    
    you gold, girl!

I'll sling no arrows towards mods today...

   <anticipating archery pun>
    
     I'm all aquiver with anticipation.

  .519 Dot Richardson?  She's a character, eh?

    
    .522
    nah. just another one of Glenn's personalities.

    
    I guess I'll just bow out of this punfest now.

    .522  unfortunately, i missed any interviews
          they may have had with her. :<

   .525  oh, she's very low key.  not.
	 beaucoup energy.

 Z   BTW- we also took gold in archery. And the guy who did it is only ~19
 Z   or something. What a shot!
    
    It just goes to show that women sin less than men!

    re: .527
    
    The fellow that won the gold in archery is 21, and, IMO, quite 
    handsome :-)
    

    .528
    
    Uh Huh, I agree.  He's a q-t.
    
    In his inteview he said all of his friends basically thought he was
    boring talking about all of this archery and olympics stuff and how
    cool it was going to be when showed them the gold. :-)
    
    BTW, are they really gold?

    
    	Well, they're not maroon, and they're certainly not aqua, so
    	yes, I'd say that they are really gold.
    

Gold plated, actually.

Then there's the story of the guy from West By Gawd Virginee who was so
proud of winning a_Olympic gold medal, he had it bronzed...

    
    Re. 528
    The archery gold medal guy lives down the road from me. Wonder
    if he will get a parade?
    
    Regarding USA today poll asking if Carl Lewis should run in
    the 4X100 relay. Here's the latest results:
    
    Should Lewis run the 4X100 meter relay?
    
    821 No
    274 Yes
     20 no opinion
    
    
    Would the USA have a better chance of winning gold with Lewis?
    
    828 No
    174 Yes
    109 No opinion
    
    Do you think the coach should offer  Lewis a spot on the team?
    
    809 No
    261 yes
     41 No opinion
    
    Do you think Lewis put undue pressure on the coach?
    
    847 Yes
    190 No
     72 no opinion.
    
    
    
    
    

    
    	Do I think that, on average, Americans are a bunch of idiots
    	and therefore wouldn't put much stock in their collective op-
    	inion anyways?
    
    	  0 No
    	  1 Yes
    

    .533
    
    Does anyone else but me find this anti-american stuff really
    offenseive?

    I think the broad brush makes the statement not worth reading, but I
    don't see anything anti-American.

    
    	USA Today polls 1100+ Americans, 95% of whom have no clue what-
    	soever about athletics and/or the athletes themselves, and you
    	say that MY reply isn't worth reading?
    
    	Had USA Today polled 1100 athletes, or 1100 athletic coaches,
    	I might have some faith in the numbers.
    

    And this makes the average American a idiot because????

    
    They watch "Roseanne" and daytime talk shows?
    

    Mr. Leslie, why would you expect the BBC or US media to pay
    particular attention to Perec?  She's representing France; I
    WOULD expect French media to give her plenty of press.  The
    crowd at the stadium was well aware of Perec's accomplishments
    and IMHO I think they did show her their appreciation for the
    wins.  Audiences watching the aquatic and gymnastic events were
    not sitting on their hands when athletes from another country
    were clearly the best in any of the events. These audiences are
    very knowledgeable about these events and are quick to show their
    appreciation when someone "nails" a performance.
    
    I think the Doctah hit it on the head; whether we like it or not
    NBC is going to give their primary attention to those events that
    they already know will draw top ratings.  I could care less about
    the Dream Team & basketball, but according to a local NBC sports
    anchor the Dream Team was the #1 draw for tickets etc.  Track and
    field and gymnastics were about even for second place.  I loved
    the archery and I KNOW what an accomplishment it was for the
    women's soccer team to fill a stadium in Athens, Ga. when the 
    Georgia Bulldogs AREN'T playing :-)  The soccer game must have
    been a nail-biter; baseball was a yawn.
    
    The local NBC sports anchor also pointed out that we have so many
    new events added this year and so many athletes that even with
    simultaneous coverage, many events are going to get short-changed.
    Like it or not, we are NOT going to see many medal ceremonies if there
    are no Americans on the podium.
    
    IMO, NBC is doing an OK job of hitting on most of the events; their
    "color" commentators leave a lot to be desired.  I'll NEVER forgive
    NBC for wimping out and passing over Greg Louganis to cover the
    platform diving.  If I could be at the Tech aquatic center I would
    gladly shove a wet towel down the throat of that idiotic, overly-
    critical female who is covering the diving.  She probably would
    have criticized Louganis if she had been covering Barcelona.  The
    one Russian diver and the Chinese were superb. I finally turned the
    sound off, watched the dives and waited until the scores were
    posted :-)
    
    By the way, just heard Johnson has had to pull out of the relay;
    the hamstring injury is more serious than he initially thought.
    Hmmmm, will this make room for Carl Lewis?
    

    >They watch "Roseanne" and daytime talk shows? 
    
    Well, OK then.   :)

    Phewww.... close call.  Turned on the tv before work this morning and
    the Canadian 4x100 team was very very close to being disqualified. 
    Very bad hand-off between Bruny Surin and Donovan Bailey. Donovan got
    the baton in his hand milli-seconds before stepping out of the zone.
    The Americans looked very good - very smooth.  2nd heat goes tonight. I
    hope Carl Lewis does get to run the anchor leg... because I think
    Bailey can whup him! 8^)
    

| <<< Note 553.538 by POWDML::HANGGELI "Will Work For Latte" >>>


| They watch "Roseanne" and daytime talk shows?

	What's wrong with Roseanne and Rosie?

    They're mental midgets that's what!

| <<< Note 553.543 by MKOTS3::JMARTIN "Madison...5'2'' 95 lbs." >>>

| They're mental midgets that's what!

	from the glass house man himself! :-)

    Pfffffffttt!
    
    What ARE you going to do without me next week Glen!!? :=)

	The same thing I do with you... nuttin honey.... you don't appeal to
me....you Ross wannabe!

    
    	RE: .537
    
    	I didn't say that THIS made the average American an idiot.  I
    	said that the average American IS an idiot, and therefore it
    	would be ridiculous to have any faith in such a survey.
    

    > The local NBC sports anchor also pointed out that we have so many
    > new events added this year and so many athletes that even with
    > simultaneous coverage, many events are going to get short-changed.
    > Like it or not, we are NOT going to see many medal ceremonies if there
    > are no Americans on the podium.
    
    Yes, but, why couldn't NBC farm off coverage of some of the lesser
    watched events to some other outlet like TBS or ESPN, or even their
    own CNBC?  I know that this happened during at least one other recent
    Olympics, and it was great because we got to see events and countries
    that we'd otherwise never have been able to see.
    
    Perhaps NBC is afraid that we'll spend more time watching the
    "B"-level coverage (we sure did, back when they did it before :-)).
    
    Chris

    >I said that the average American IS an idiot, and therefore it
    >would be ridiculous to have any faith in such a survey.
    
    I know that is what you said. And I said your note wasn't worth reading
    because it was a broad brush.
    
    Unless of course you mean THE average American, which is only one
    person.  :)

    
    	Tom, that note is a prime candidate for a TTWA entry.
    
    	8^)
    

    .548
    
    Chris,
    
    Good point; why don't you send them E-mail asking that question?
    
    If I were a betting person, I'd bet the answer would be that they
    did not want events put on stations that would only be available
    on cable and thus, be unavailable to folks who couldn't afford
    cable.
    
    

         Last night I just watched a womens' soccer game for the first
    time. NBC finally decided to show one - the gold medal match. Too bad
    we missed the others - I guess they were too busy with all the
    commercials and profiles. This coverage is infuriating. 

  What's the race that was on tonight where they run aruond the track
a bunch of times, leaping over hurdles, then plopping into a small 
 pool of water as they continue around the course?


 Can't be much fun running around in wet shoes, that's for sure.


 Jim

 .553  steeple.  kinda like with horses, only you don't
       see many refusals.

    I don't think I've complained much about the coverage.... but the
    commentators for the mens 4x100 relay were a laugh.  What a build-up
    all week... would Carl run so he could win his 10th Gold Medal?  As if
    all the other teams were already relegated to fighting for the silver.
    And then when the Canadian guys won (!!!!), they immediately started
    talking about mistakes the U.S team had made.  I wish Carl had run,
    although I guess then the focus would be on the fact that Tim Harden(?)
    didn't have enough experience or something else.   It couldn't simply
    be that the Canadians had run a better race? No, that couldn't possibly
    be it.  To top it off, Dennis Mitchell was interviewed after the race
    and said that the American team "just came in second.  We didn't lose
    the race"  Huh?  What's up with that?  At least Jon Drummond showed a
    bit more class.
    
    **** end of rant *** (sorry 8^)  )

    I watch it all from CBC now, it's easier that way.
    
    That race wasn't even close.

    Congrats to the Canadians for being the first team to ever outrun the
    US in a 4x100 relay. 

    hurrah!
    
    The tediously boring Olympics are finally over.
    
    No more hours and hours of ping pong,weight lifting,cycling ad tedium.
    
    And what`s more,the football season starts again in 2 weeks. Good to
    watch some proper sport again. 
    

    
      Speaking of football, I was VERY glad Nigeria came back to beat
     the Argentines in the Olymoic Gold Medal game, 3-2, after the
     Argentines took a 2-1 lead on the grossest staged fall leading to
     a penalty kick.  TV replayed it over and over, showing that the
     Nigerian never touched him.  What a crock by the refs.
    
      bb

I didn't watch the closing ceremonies.  Decided to 
catch up on some much needed sleep.

This morning my oldest son was very disgusted.  He
said that the during the medal ceremony for the
marathon they announced that this was the last Olympic
marathon of the millenium.  After pondering for a 
bit we came up with the following reasons for this
statement.

1) My son mis-heard it.

2) They've decided not to hold the marathon in the 
   Sidney games.

3) The Sidney games are going to be held going to be
   held at the beginning of summer instead of late
   spring.  Thus running the marathon on January 1,
   2001.

4) The IOC, USOC and/or AGOC (I'm not sure what 
   official made the announcement) doesn't know how
   the calendar works. (I hope it was the IOC.  The
   U.S. has had enough embarrassment over these
   games.)

    
      Nope.  The IOC says Sidney will be the first games of the new
     millenium, which they think starts at midnight of 12/31/1999.
    
      This is a matter of debate.  See Stephen Jay Gould's essay
     presenting both sides in his collection "Dinosaur in a Haystack".
    
      I bet that in terms of the popularity, the IOC view would win a
     poll.
    
      bb

    
    Sydney.
    
    au, tisgnttm.
    
    

 
 Oh, brother, not this discussion again!  

    	
    	Too bad Brian Markey's not around to call me stupid again,
    	even though I was right.
    
    

    
      By the way, after all the criticism of coverage being too
     centered on Americans, Saturday I did a quick statistical
     check.  I found a bias, but a very modest one.  Foreigners
     who actually won were covered extensively.  Losers got short
     shrift, even shorter if foreign.
    
      By the way, how come they called the Cuban-American gold medal
     boxing match a knockout ?  The Cuban was leading on points when
     the American decked him.  The Cuban was up at the count of 5 or 6,
     but the ref stopped it.  In the pros, this fight would have been
     continued if the Cuban was still game.  Is this a judgement call
     of the official ?  I think it was a European ref.
    
      bb
    

    
    I wonder if Argentina had won the gold, would anyone be talking about
    their "tainted medal" earned by acting?
    
    								-mr. bill

    re: .565
    
    TKO == "Technical Knock Out"

In my own way, which has all too frequently been falling under the
ubiquitous "mean-spirited" label for the past few years, I wonder why
residents of remote parts of Georgia, who will never realize one whit or
jot of benefit from the 1996 olympics, must pay for the four thousand
Georgia National Guardsmen to be at the olympics?

Or for the same matter, why people in 49 other states must pay for the
_fourteen thousand_ U.S. military people who were quietly ordered
to the olympics? 

According to an AP report, the military people have been acting as bus
drivers (they were ordered to get GA bus driving licenses), chauffeurs
for bigwigs, grounds keepers, and general menial gofers. 

One answer: to maximize Atlanta profit. 

I also wonder why people call it Hotlanta, which can't be, because the
average temperature in July is 79 - or so they said on their application
to the IOC.

I'm glad it's over.

JMHO,

Art

    Does anybody have a final count on the medals won by each nation?

   James?