Conference back40::soapbox

    
    The radio reports this morning said some places had lines waiting
    to get Win95 while other stores had nothing.
    
    

    
    > Or is it enough "to make a grown man cry"...
    
    More like enough "to make a grown man barf"
       
    :-P
    Dan

    P.T. Barnum would be proud.

    Conform or die!!
    
    

    
    "...Give me liberty, or give me death..."
                 or maybe
    "...Give me a real OS, or give me death..."
    

    Windoze '95 is just a plot to keep whatshisname on top of the
    richest-man-in-the-world pile.

    
    from what I have read about it, it still falls short of Apple's os
    ease of use, but it will sell millions of copies, thus making Bill
    Gates an even more wealthy individual.

    I heard that some Apple employees are walking around today with
    T-shirts that say "Been there, Done that".
    
    					heh-heh-heh...

    .8
    
    I had my "Been there, Done that" T-shirt on Tuesday, but I forgot it
    today.

    Wiv such loyalty from their most "stalwart," Spindler & Co. are doomed...
    

    
    
    
    
    I was waiting for Dick to get in on this.  I have a better 
    idea for a T-shirt...
    
    "Where do you want to GP Fault today."
    
    Apple is where Digital was a couple of years ago.  Yet another
    failure by a hardware driven computer company.
    
    
    
      

>    Apple is where Digital was a couple of years ago.  Yet another
>    failure by a hardware driven computer company.
    
A couple of years ago, Digital was deeply in the red.

    
    
    True.  But Apple is in a purely defensive situation because of
    bad marketing decisions regarding its software technology (in
    that sense it's like Digital).
    

    The difference, Pvt Parts, is that Apple has been there since 1984 and
    has long since learned how to deal with it.

    
   - The difference, Pvt Parts, is that Apple has been there since 1984 and
   - has long since learned how to deal with it.
     
    
     Yah, with Plug-and-Play pink slip devices.
    
        

    
    just shut off the radio, turn off the tv, and most of all,
    stay away from computer stores, and you'll get over it.

    if, on the other hand, you get swept up in all of this and
    insist on installing win95 on your pee sea, be prepared
    to pull your hair out installing it. "but this is supposed
    to be the version that makes installation a breeze," you say?
    rotfl over that one i am... oh yes. rolling indeed. the
    fun begins when some piece of hardware you own is not native
    to win95 and you need to find a driver... and then you'll
    find there is no driver and that piece of hardware makes
    a nice boat anchor... this is especially true for video
    boards. oh the fun you'll have. the joy! who could ask
    for more than to max out your credit card trying to feed
    the system enough RAM? or hard disk? think of the over-
    whelming sense of pride-of-ownership you'll have when you
    discover that the 16 bit ISA-based disk controller in your
    computer causes the system to go into what Microsoft has
    termed "DOG MODE". Not to mention the sheer exhilaration
    as you realize that much of your game and CD-ROM software,
    including (shhhhh, don't tell anyone) microsoft's flight
    simulator, will not run in the DOS window.

    -b
                            

    sounds like someone's gonna make a million $$$'s by starting up a 
    Windows 95 support group and counselling retreat

    I haven't seen a Windows 95 logo yet...
    Haven't seen an ad for it..
    Haven't heard an ad for it...
    
    Dang, I must be abnormal.

    -1 or you're really Helen Keller... :-)

    
    > Dang, I must be abnormal.
    
    No jes VEEERRRRRYYYYY LUCKY !
    

    
    re: -19
    
    i was gonna say "your name isn't `tommy', is it?" :-) :-)
    
    -b

    Nobody should purchase this software without getting (in writing,
    if necessary) a money-back guarantee, which, by the way, is usually
    not available when buying software unless you choose your store
    very carefully.
    
    Actually, even better advice would be the first five words of the
    above...
    
    Gazillions of wide-eyed, glazed-over folks will buy this binary
    buffoonery, and either won't be able to install it at all, won't
    be able to run it at all, or will find significant parts of their
    hardware or application software that won't work.  But beyond that,
    I'll predict the biggest single problem will be that most people's
    machines are simply not adequate for running Winlose 95 either at
    all, or with as good performance as they're getting out of Windows 3.1.
    When your computer doesn't work anymore, or doesn't work as well
    as it used to, then what do you do?  You're out $90, at least.
    
    Are all these people prepared to spend hundreds on memory/disk/chip
    upgrades?  Not everyone's a power user.  I made the point several
    weeks ago about available technology outpacing the needs and abilities
    of most of their users.  I believe that we've reached that level.  It
    was interesting that Leonard Greene made that same point in his
    Herald editorial the other day (I was amazed to find him in agreement
    with me on anything :-)).
    
    It's also quite interesting that simultaneously available with the
    release of Winlose 95 are most, if not all, of Microsoft's expensive
    office applications for 95, as well as other Microsoft Win95 add-ons
    to improve your Windows 95 "experience", as Egghead so thoughtfully
    informed me in the brochure they sent me containing my Windows 95
    To-Do List.  Meanwhile, most other apps (especially office apps)
    in that brochure from other vendors were the old "clunky" 16-bit
    versions.
    
    Nah, no competitive advantage for Microsoft apps, nosiree...
    
    To answer what someone said in another note, this isn't about sour
    grapes at all, at least not for me.  It's just my normal level of
    resistance to marketing hype, coercion, media blitzing, scams, and
    general attempts at conformity or submission.  I have the same reaction
    to Barney, Power Rangers, and so on, which is my God-given right as
    a cranky, cynical old curmudgeon guy.
    
    Chris

Hey - I installed it with absolutly no problems at all...

True - some old PC's might have troubles if they have a video card
that does not adhere to any standards or isn't made anymore, but those
people need to upgrade anyways since those cards are usually dogs performance
wise!!!

I think a lot of this windows bashing is just pure jealosy on the part of
people who are unable to get, are stuck with macs, or upset that they are
not getting a piece of Win95's action...

/scott

    Why does anyone "need to upgrade" if the product they have does the job
    they want?
    
    This is the pitch made to the suckers out there..."bigger, better,
    faster!"
    
    But hell, if you're going down to the store and back, you can do it on
    a bike. You don't need a Ferrari.

    .23
    
    > but those people need to upgrade anyways since those cards are
    > usually dogs performance wise!!!
    
    (reformatted for my convenience)
    
    What a snot-nosed elitist attitude you have.  There are thousands, or
    millions, of systems that fall into the class you mention.  If those
    systems are doing what their users want, with performance that is
    acceptable, the only need to upgrade is the one perceived by the dweebs
    who earn their bread by conning satisfied customers into coughing up
    money they don't have on things they don't want.
    
    > jealosy on the part of people ... who are stuck with macs ...
    
    Let me put it to you this way:  If you handed me a P100 with 16 megs of
    RAM and a 1.2 gigabyte disk and a 17" .28mm dot-pitch monitor, I'd sell
    the thing and buy a Mac with the proceeds.  You support a PeeCee, fine,
    but don't look down your nose at those of us who were smart enough not
    fall into the Microsquash trap in the first place.

    .21
    
    No, it's part of that hibernation thing...I'm preparing to crawl back
    into my cave.

>    Why does anyone "need to upgrade" if the product they have does the job
>    they want?

Hey - I understand... until recently, I still has a Coleco ADAM computer.
And I still play my Atari 2600, 5200, 7800, Colecovision, and Intellivision
on a regular basis...

But I do own a Pentium too, and an Atari Jaguar... 

Why upgrade? If your current product can do what you want, fine. But if you
upgrade you could (should) be able to do the same thing faster, along with
being able to do newer things too...

For instance, I don't NEED a GUI interface, but it make word processing 
a LOT easier...

/scott

    re: .23
    
    Yeah, but what does "old PC" mean?  That's one of the core issues
    here.
    
    The Big Lie says that you need to get a new PC every 2-3 years
    or your dried-up old bones will fall apart in the wind created
    by everyone else blowing by you.
    
    I don't buy this.  I believe that <insert a high percentage here>
    of PC's *and their software* are already more powerful and
    feature-laden than what their users need or are capable of using.
    
    Sure, there are power users out there who need to have all four
    or five of Microsoft's office apps chugging away simultaneously
    on their 17" monitors, but most people just don't work that way.
    I'd be amazed if even 10% of Windows 3.1 users know how to use
    OLE, or even the Clipboard.
    
    Given that, this whipping-up of the general public into a frenzy
    over something that will actually give them very little of substance
    is disingenuous and fradulent, particularly because most people are
    blissfully unaware of the hardware upgrades that their systems
    are going to need, and Microsoft is well aware of that.
    
    Chris

>    What a snot-nosed elitist attitude you have.  There are thousands, or

I think you missied my smily in the title of my note... Boy - I really
touched a nerve in ya, eh???

>    You support a PeeCee, fine,
>    but don't look down your nose at those of us who were smart enough not
>    fall into the Microsquash trap in the first place.

I don't look my nose down at anyone - but talk about the pot calling the
kettle black!!! har! har!

"those of us who were smart enought not fall into the Microsquash trap"???

HAR! HAR!

bottle. kettle. black.

/scott

>bottle. kettle. black.

I can't explain why I typed "bottle" instead of "pot", but I did... must
have mangled "pot" and "kettle" together, and my internal spell checker 
thought I meant to type "bottle"

;-)

/scott

    .30
    
    > my internal spell checker
    
    Get a Mac and put the American Heritage Dictionary on it.

    
    
    And it's a direct hit from Mr Binder to Mr Marrison........

	so, the Mac makes a good book holder?

    
    well Scott, I own a P75 and no mac, but the Mac has had win95
    capabilities for years, and Microsoft stole alot of Apple's "feel"
    in launching windows 95. On the other hand, Apple stole from MS
    alot of their new os as well.
    
    Mark

    
    Chris, I have to admit I'm one of the 90% that don't/haven't used
    Clipboard. :-(  To me anyways, it sounds as if it's a big scratch pad
    or holding tank of info, until you need to paste it into a document.
    
    Am I correct??

    re: Clipboard
    
    Yes, that's a good way of thinking of it, like a scratch pad or
    holding tank.  It's pretty neat, actually, when used in conjunction
    with cut-and-paste menu commands in your applications.  I've used
    it a few times to, for example, take a drawing that my son has
    created in a "paint" application, and put it into a page of a report
    that he's writing with either the "Write" app or MS-Word.
    
    OLE (object linking and embedding) does that and much more, for
    example firing up the proper app when you want to modify a
    spreadsheet that you've embedded or linked into a document.
    Lots of stuff here that I've never used myself, actually, other
    than to play around with it to see if it worked.
    
    There's lots of neat stuff in 3.1, actually.  :-)
    
    By the way, for a good chuckle, check out notes 727.* and 730.*
    in RANGER::WINDOWS95, especially 730.3.
    
    Chris

    > What a snot-nosed elitist attitude you have.  There are thousands, or
    > millions, of systems that fall into the class you mention.  If those
    > systems are doing what their users want, with performance that is
    > acceptable, the only need to upgrade is the one perceived by the dweebs
    > who earn their bread by conning satisfied customers into coughing up
    > money they don't have on things they don't want.
    
    What kind of car do you drive?
    

    .37
    
    It's not an Acura NS-X.

    NSX.  There's no - in NSX.
    
    NNTTM, HTH

    .39
    
    Gues I'd'a' knowed that if my car wuz one of them beasts, huh?

    Mebbe, mebbe not.  

    The thumper index of this topic is incredible.

    \john

    
    a couple of dudes from dec (he meant digital) were on 107.9 this
    morning talking about the new windows '95...didn't really say a whole
    heck of a lot, except that it makes things a lot easier to use...if you
    have the right software...
    
    

    
    > it makes things a lot easier to use...if you have the right software...

    Which we'll sell you for a SMALL additional charge....  :-|

    I wonder how the sucker...er...customers are gonna take it when they
    realize that they've been had?

RE: 530.16 by MPGS::MARKEY "Look at the BONES!"

Microsoft's flight simulator runs under WinNT.  Sound doesn't,  but who
wants to listen to "drrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...CRASH.


Phil

    
    re: .44
    
    Well Dan, according to a Tandy official, they sold 50,000 copies
    nationwide in those two hours on Thursday morning. So, what you are
    saying is that those 50,000 people, are suckers, correct?? I wonder
    if it ever occurred to you, that maybe, just maybe, those people had
    a P75 etc with 16 meg of RAM, a large hard drive etc... and the
    software to run underneath it. MS office 95 edition... Some people will
    be able to use it right away, not everyone's an idiot for buying it.
    hth
    
    Mark

    
    Mark, You didn't hear the people they were interviewing on the radio...
    I'd bet dollars to donuts that those people have NO CLUE what it is
    that they just bought....

>    Well Dan, according to a Tandy official, they sold 50,000 copies
>    nationwide in those two hours on Thursday morning. So, what you are
>    saying is that those 50,000 people, are suckers, correct??

They're idjits for not waiting till a reasonable hour.

    And I'd bet loonies to croissants.

I'm pleased and impressed with Win95... Installed it last night, no
troubles (except I had to free up disk space on my C: drive...)

One nice feature is that I can hide my uncompressed host drives, I don't
think I was able to do that in DOS 6.2...

Also, my DOS game that I've been programming runs perfectly fine under 
Win95, going a full 60fps in Mode 13h... (320x200x256, for those 
saying 'huh?') One particullary nice thing is I can do all my development
now in Windows and don't have to exit to DOS to run my program... that
makes things A LOT easier for me.

DOOM runs good. ST:TNG ran good... Microsoft Arcade was a bit slower, but
I didn't expect it to run very good anyways... so that wasn't a surprise.

Ran a few apps, and noticed things felt to run a bit faster than under
Windows 3.11. 

Took me awhile to get use to that fact that I didn't need to bother with
disk caching or virtual memory stuff anymore... However I still load my
EMM386 stuff for when I goto DOS. (However, if I don't need DOS, I don't
need EMM386 at all)

Considering the wide arrange of hardware out there, it did a good job 
detecting and setting up my SCSI CD-ROM, soundcard, modem, EIDE, etc.

Mac's have it easier where everything is just SCSI... Mac plug and play
is for kids, Win95 plug and play is for adults!

Oh - BTW - I use to use a Mac in college. As a door stop.

/scott

"Shall I tell you what I find beautiful in your species. You are at your best
when things are at their worst".

And to my pal ::DKILLORAN..."even the best workers doing the best job will not
succeed if the product is bad." I suppose events such as this will help broaden
your perspective.

    
    .50
    > Mac's have it easier where everything is just SCSI... Mac plug and play
    > is for kids, Win95 plug and play is for adults!

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.....ok <snicker> if YOU say so...

    .51
    > And to my pal ::DKILLORAN..."even the best workers doing the best 
    > job will not succeed if the product is bad." I suppose events such as 
    > this will help broaden your perspective.

    Why so?  Snake oil salesmen have been making a profit for years....
    until they get caught.  Just because these snake oil salesmen have
    fooled a lot of people, doesn't mean they can do it forever "...You can
    fool some of the people all of the time ..."  It's just a matter of
    time until they get caught.  I, for one, have converted many former PC
    followers to the true religion of Macintosh.

>    Why so?  Snake oil salesmen have been making a profit for years....

How is Windows and/or Microsoft the same as snake oil???

/scott

p.s. sounds like you are just jealous that your system isn't as popular,
     which is understandable considering it's an Apple... 

;-)

    
    
    What folks are buying is a migration path to NT which will be
    the dominant OS by the year 2000.  
    

re:.52   < this will help broaden your perspective.

<< Why so? 

<sigh>. Well, one can always hope.

<< Snake oil salesmen have been making a profit for years....

You're _saying_it_ Man! 
 
   

    
    i've had various versions of win95 for about a year now; as i've
    mentioned before, microsoft has a program called "the microsoft
    developer network" (MSDN), whereby you pay them too much money,
    and four times a year they mail you a scad of cd-roms with all
    their operating systems on it (MS-DOS, all flavors of Win, NT,
    etc.)
    
    as of the next-to-last "pre-release", ms flight simulator did
    not run, at all. the reason was that ms flight simulator requires
    the EMS driver to be loaded... and (i'm a bit fuzzy on this,
    as we're talking last march) it wasn't recognizing what win95
    configured as EMS. i'm glad to hear (as phil reports) that it
    works now...
    
    one of my development systems has a hercules graphite pro card
    in it... about a year old, and hardly out of date (they still
    sell these boards). when i received the most recent win95
    prerelease, i checked to see if there was a driver for this
    fairly popular video board... there wasn't. ok, call hercules.
    to my surprise (really) hercules has a post on their bbs
    saying that they will not be doing their own driver for
    win95... i called their tech support line and the person i
    spoke with told me the hercules developers "decided it wasn't
    worth the trouble." microsoft has their own driver available
    on CompuServe, but it only doesn't use the capability of the
    "pro" versions of the graphite board which have 2meg of VRAM.
    so the catch 22 is that if i want to run win95, i can't run
    (for example) photoshop (an application i use extensively)
    in 24 bit color mode, unless i buy another video board.
    
    then there was the "turtle beach" experience. i use turtle
    beach sound cards (the "multisound" to be specific) because
    they are the best sounding/lowest noise boards available
    for the pc. i do audio editing on a pc using an application
    called "software audio workshop" (saw). no win95 driver is, or
    will be, available for this board.
    
    for digital audio i/o (for cd mastering) i use a CardD+...
    again, no driver, and none forthcoming.
    
    my disk controller in this system is a future domain scsi
    16 bit isa interface. thus, i'm intimitely familiar with the
    so-called "dog-mode". basically, the internals of windows
    now run in 32 bit mode and really really don't like doing
    16 bit disk transfers. no they do not.
    
    then there was word version 6. everything seemed to work fine
    when i installed win95, except the spelling checker. it
    always failed to load the spell dll. i tried everything...
    really, everything. i burned one of my free calls to microsoft
    (i used to get 10 calls a year as an msdn level 2, now i only
    get 2 calls)... i installed various ole kits... and moved/
    copied various dlls from the original disks and and and...
    it never worked. when i "punted" and went back to win3.1,
    the spell checker still wouldn't work. even re-installing
    the app didn't work. nuking the entire app and re-installing
    it didn't work. i now run spell-checker on my notebook when
    i need to... it no longer works on the system i had it
    installed on before...
    
    then, there was family tree maker, a genealogy application.
    wouldn't run (dll problems again) under win95... and wouldn't
    run after reverting to win3.1. after some seriously painful
    debugging, i got it to work again.
    
    and on, and on, and on...
    
    i really like the new ui and there's tons of other features
    in win95 (ole 2.0 for example) that are very nice. but i
    predict that there will be many people who fail to install
    this operating system. a _vast_ majority of systems out
    there RIGHT NOW are not fully "win95" compatible because
    they don't have: 1. the plug and play BIOS and 2. peripherals
    that allow full software configuration. The comment that
    plug and play is better on a pc than it is on a mac is
    asinine, even if it was meant as a joke. my macs really
    are much closer to the concept of "plug and play" than any
    pc.
    
    
    yes, if you go out, buy a BRAND NEW pc and BRAND NEW peripherals,
    tons of memory and a big disk (and make sure they all bear the
    win 95 logo for "plug and play compatibility", win 95 is excellent...
    but if you're the typical schmuck with an existing system... chances
    are excellent you're about to be hosed... one way, or another.
    
    -b

    
    > How is Windows and/or Microsoft the same as snake oil???
    
    Crapola that doesn't work, or doesn't work properly, or doesn't work
    well...i.e. snake oil.
    
    > sounds like you are just jealous that your system isn't as popular,
    > which is understandable considering it's an Apple... 
    
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA.......No, you can have the headaches
    involved with owning a PoS PC....I got better things to do with my life
    than try to keep a lame OS limping along.....<snicker>
    

>p.s. sounds like you are just jealous that your system isn't as popular,
>     which is understandable considering it's an Apple... 
    
    Far be it from me to come running to Dan's defense, but... popular
    simply does not translate into better. People drink thousands of
    barrels of budweiser for every glass of Gordon Biersch's m�rzen, but
    who's under the illusion that the bud is better?

    The old Beta is still better than the latest transmogrification of VHS
    for example.

    Historical question (as opposed to rhetorical)...why did Beta fail and
    VHS dominate?

    Sony hogged it.

	Beta was betta than VHS when they first came out, wasn't it?

    .62
    Still is...that's why I'm asking...

    Sony hogged it.

>>    Still is...that's why I'm asking...

	is it?  it's been so long since i've heard anyone compare the
	two, i didn't know if things had changed.

    .64
    
    ummm...can you elaborate?

    Well, they didn't let anybody else, except Sanyo I think, make VCR's in
    the Beta format. VHS was open to anybody.

    .63
    
    The answer, Jim, was given.  Sony hogged Beta.  They refused to license
    it to everyone but Sanyo.  Which is precisely what Apple did for so
    long with the Mac - no licenses, no clones except the now-defunct
    Outbound, which got by using reclaimed Mac ROMs in its excellent line
    of laptops.  Now, there are licensed Mac clones, some of them better
    than the Apple variety.  Apple is learning.  Winlose95 will accelerate
    the curve.

    The real reason VHS overtook Beta quickly was that the VHS systems
    recorded for two hours ( in standard play mode ) vs one-hour for Beta.
    
    In the ealry days of  
    home VCR's there were no video stores. The primary use was to record
    programs off the air. If you were a big football fan as I was, you
    could tape an entire football game ( approx 3 hrs ) using VHS in the
    extended play mode wheras as a beta machine in extended play mode would
    have crapped out at the end of two hours.
    

    Thanks for the explanations...
    
    I didn't know Sony owned the rights to hog...that's the missing piece
    of information that made it confusing to me. I'm surprised, considering
    my interest in Macs, that I haven't seen the Mac/Beta comparison
    before. 
    
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

  > The real reason VHS overtook Beta quickly was that the VHS systems
   >recorded for two hours ( in standard play mode ) vs one-hour for Beta.
   
  The real reason was VHS was cheaper (just like PCs to MACs). Everyone
  was making them and the competition drove down the price.

  Sony, being the only supplier of BETA, priced the "Ours is better than yours"
  version accordingly (Just like MAC).

  Had BETA been licenced, the competiton would have quickly come out with
  longer play products for BETA and VHS would have died ...

  Had the MAC been licenced in the early eighties, the PC would not be nearly
  so prolific ...

  Doug.

    .71
    
    > Had the MAC been licensed in the early eighties...
    
    1.  It's Mac, not MAC.  It's not an acronym, it's short for Macintosh.
    
    2.  The Mac did not EXIST in the early eighties.  It made its public
        debut late in January 1984.

>    Crapola that doesn't work, or doesn't work properly, or doesn't work
>    well...i.e. snake oil.

no problems for me on 2 vastly different machines that I've installed on
it... One is all SCSI, 486/33. The other is a SCSI/EIDE/PCI/P60...

No problems. All runs fine and smooth and fast...

I will agree that there will be problems out these due to large about of
hardware available on PC's... but it is literally impossible to support 
every piece of h/w ever made for the PC. For the majority, the install 
should go smooth. And over time (i.e. a few years) it'll not be a hassle
at all... 
    
>    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA.......No, you can have the headaches
>    involved with owning a PoS PC....I got better things to do with my life
>    than try to keep a lame OS limping along.....<snicker>

I've had some headaches when dealing with DOS 6.x, but no headaches with
Win95. Thank you very much.

/scott

>    Far be it from me to come running to Dan's defense, but... popular
>    simply does not translate into better. People drink thousands of
>    barrels of budweiser for every glass of Gordon Biersch's m�rzen, but
>    who's under the illusion that the bud is better?

I agree 100%... I love my Atari Jaguar game system, but it will not
be the most popular of the next generation systems...

but the mac still sux eggs...

;-)

/scott

p.s. the only found memory of the Mac I have is playing "Crystal Quest" (I
     think that was the name of the game)... BOING!  BOING!  BOING!

    For anyone interested, WSJ says Windoze '95 sales topped $700,000,000
    the first day, which just happens to support my theory posted 40-some
    odd notes back.  8^)
    
    
    -steve

    
    re:.74
    
    > but the mac still sux eggs...
    
    Based on.....?
    
    .75
    
    Steve, what was your point?

>    > but the mac still sux eggs...
>    
>    Based on.....?

it being an apple...

;-)

    Can anyone who has installed win95 tell me:
    
    What system features are prereq to running win95?
    
    Do you still need:
    
    	DOS?
    
    	QEMM or the like?
    
    	WINSOCK for PPP connection to run netscape?
    
    Thanks,
    Dick

    re: Beta v. VHS
    
    Besides all the other responses, I have an additional theory as to why Beta
    failed...
    
    The tapes were too big!  The VHS tape was smaller, thus easier to store.  
    I mean really, who cares about picture quality, recording time, and
    stupid technical details like that?  8^)
    
    Sony goofed on this one, to be sure.  Stingy grunts should've licensed
    Beta out to several REAL electronics manufacturers who could do
    something positive with the format.  For similar quality, you need to
    buy an S-VHS player/recorder (too bad there aren't any S-VHS rentals
    out there, or this might be worthwhile to the average quality-conscious
    consumer), which is a tad more pricey.
    
    FWIW, Sony may have not learned their lesson, they are currently on the 
    opposing side to a DVD standard that could be made compatible for both
    audio/video and CD-ROM players (Sony is backing a two-sided disc- like
    a small laserdisc- vs. the opposing standard of a one-sided disk).  I 
    think all the parties involved are meeting to discuss backing one 
    standard, hopefully they can agree on something and have the DVD players 
    out in '96.
    
    
    -steve  
                              

>    Can anyone who has installed win95 tell me:
>    
>    What system features are prereq to running win95?
>    
>    Do you still need:
>    
>    	DOS?
NO ( Though you will need DOS/Windows v#.# to install the upgrade package) 
   
>    	QEMM or the like?
NO
    
>    	WINSOCK for PPP connection to run netscape?
NO
    
Geoff

    
    .79

    >The VHS tape was smaller, thus easier to store.
    
    Not to MY recollection...
      

    >Can anyone who has installed win95 tell me:
    
    >What system features are prereq to running win95?
    
    	386 20mhz (at least), 8 meg, 13 meg free hd space. but
    	there's no way you could really use such a configuration,
    	that's just the bare bones minimum. It goes on to say
    	that the recommended system is at least a 25 mhz 486
    	with 16 meg. Plus much more than 13 meg of free disk
    	space for "virtual memory".
    
    >Do you still need:
    
    >	DOS?
    
        there is no more "DOS"; at least as you know it... Win95
    	is what starts when the system is booted. There is a "DOS
    	box" for running DOS applications under (and if you insist
    	on having a DOS prompt to type at)
    
    >	QEMM or the like?
    
    	Built in, not needed.
    
    >	WINSOCK for PPP connection to run netscape?
    
    	TCP/IP is built in. The socket library is on the "plus"
    	edition.
    
    -b

    
> >    > but the mac still sux eggs...
> >    
> >    Based on.....?
> 
> it being an apple...

    Sounds like sour grapes to me.  Scott admit it, you're embarrassed by
    the PC and all its failings....Don't worry we understand.

    Good stuff!  Thanks for the info.  Does the sockets (plus?) edition
    cost more?

    
    all computers suck. these religious wars over operating systems,
    languages, instruction sets and busses are a crock. i'll be the
    first to admit, i'm a whore (or perhaps a mercenary, if that
    analogy better fits with your sensibilities)...
    
    all things considered, i think the mac is more powerful and
    has more of the tools available that i'm personally interested
    in (graphics, audio editing, video editing, etc.), but i've
    made a hefty amount of the green stuff from that stupid old
    ibm box and while i don't think it, or the os it runs, is
    all that great, i'm not giving any of the money back.
    
    -b

    Steve, Beta tapes for consumer vcr's are nearly half the size of VHS
    tapes. Are you confusing Beta with a U-matic?

    >Steve, Beta tapes for consumer vcr's are nearly half the size of VHS
    >tapes. Are you confusing Beta with a U-matic?
    
    i would have guessed the confusion was between beta and beta-max,
    the so-called "newsroom standard".
    
    -b

>> it being an apple...
>
>    Sounds like sour grapes to me.  Scott admit it, you're embarrassed by
>    the PC and all its failings....Don't worry we understand.

embarrassed? hardly! I didn't design it!!!

Seriously - the Mac isn't bad... neither is Windows... I think Windows under
DOS is a great achievment considering what they had underneath it (DOS).
Also - I think Win95 does an excellent job of providing a nice way to
move to the next gen of an OS while still retaining the ability to use your
old DOS or Win16 programs in an easy manner.

To bash either system seriously is a waste of time... however, if bashing is
done just for fun, it can be very fun.  ;-)

/scott

    Religious wars aside, I've come to a couple of conclusions about
    computers.
    
    Except for the few who buy computers because they want to play with
    them for fun they find in playing with the computer itself (not the
    games or whatever that it runs), I don't think people want to buy
    computers at all.  I think people need or want to accomplish something. 
    Make professional-looking documents, mix music tracks or videos, keep
    payroll accounts, experience the thrill of blasting imps, whatever. 
    The purchase of a computer arises out of those needs or wants because
    the computer is the easiest/best/most efficient way of doing the things
    people want to do.
    
    So what does that mean?  It means don't buy a computer because it's a
    Mac or because it's a PC.  It means buy a computer that does what you
    want to do, the way you want to do it.  If that means you buy a Mac
    because it's better equipped to produce your "Intel Inside"
    commercials, then buy a Mac.  If it means buy a PC because it offers
    file-exchange compatibility with a greater number of other people's
    computers, buy a PC.
    
    And then, you've bought a computer, feel free to get religious about
    why the other kind sux.

    re: .87
    
    That's definitely a possibility.  8^)
    
    
    -steve

    So how much freeware and shareware is there for Macs?

    .92
    
    OOdles.

    So you no longer have to go through Apple to release software for the
    Mac?  When did that happen?  I always thought that was the biggest
    drawback to Macs for both users and developers.

    'nother question about win95:
    
    What was that about pluggable BIOS or whatever that was?
    
    Is that something you need for win95, or is that something any new
    system would likely have, or wot?
    
    Thanks,
    Dick

    .94
    
    There are things for which it is advisable to go through Apple.  For
    example, if you want to get an official assignment of file type and
    creator IDs, you have to go through the formality of registering them
    with Apple.  If you can use IDs associated with other programs, or if
    you don't care about being "official," don't bother.  Thousands of
    programs have their own type and creator IDs that aren't registered. 
    Sometimes they stomp on each other, most times they don't.
    
    As for "have to go through Apple," nope.  No way nohow.

    
    re: .95
    
    the plug and play bios... basically, it is extensions to the
    bios roms that allow the hardware, prior to power-on-self-test
    (post) to query the various devices in the system to determine
    the installed hardware. most computers out there now do not
    have this... a computer will only have this if its packaging
    displays the _WIN95_ logo (not the regular Win logo)...
    
    it's the same thing for peripherals... the peripheral has to
    be able to respond to the query from the bios. most existing
    peripherals do not. which means that you have to go through
    the manufacturer's installation and setup procedures, not
    the whiz-bang win95 driver install/setup. so, a big
    selling point of win95 is _completely_ lost on a vast
    majority of the PeeSeas out there today... for a _vast_
    majority of people, the _only_ reason to get win95 is
    the sexier user-in-your-face. that's why i'm so perplexed
    about everyone getting a win95 woody, excluding, one assumes,
    janet reno. :-)
    
    -b

    You said woody and Janet Reno in the same sentence

    
    Sometimes, a woody is just a woody.
    

    
    Sometimes, a snarfy is just a snarfy.
    
    

    
    SOMEBODY, FOR GOD'S SAKE, STOP HER BEFORE SHE SNARFS AGAIN!!!!!
    

    
    Is someone snarfing woodies?

    or peckers?

Which brings me to the choice of the "jingle" for this 12K line wonder.

I mean "Start Me Up" ?

Ain't the last lines of that "You'd make a dead man come" ?

For that (ahem) functionality I'll gladly remain anachronistic. ;-)

    
    I hope Bri "Penis Man" Markey doesn't enter a note.....

    kick-stands, if you sleep on your side.

    >> all computers suck. these religious wars over operating systems,
    >> languages, instruction sets and busses are a crock. i'll be the
    >> first to admit, i'm a whore (or perhaps a mercenary, if that
    >> analogy better fits with your sensibilities)...
    
    Bwah-hah... truer words have rarely been spoken.  My cousin, who's
    just getting into the rabid neophyte stage of PC-mania, is frequently
    amazed at my overall disdain for these machines and what they've done
    to... uh, "for"... society.
    
    As for Winlose 95, it's lots of fun to bash something that so many
    others are attempting to coerce me to love.  It's just part of my
    overall defiance.
    
    But you know... I think I've just changed my mind about Windows 95,
    because in a live address by Bill Gates and Jay Leno, according to
    the Boston Herald:
    
    		"I think it will revolutionize the way
    		 people work and play," Leno gushed.
    
    So says noted computer expert Jay Leno.  Good enough for me!
    
    Also in that article:
    
    		     Later, a demonstrator on camera moved a
    		photograph of Leno from the center to the upper
    		right side of the computer screen.  [Ooooo... - CJR]
    		     "Isn't that neat?" exclaimed one member
    		of the audience at the World Wide Trade Center.
    		     "That's neat!"  agreed the man next to him.
    		     When Leno drove off from the stage at
    		Microsoft headquarters in Redmond, Wash., in a
    		tiny car built like a computer mouse, a man in the
    		Boston audience shouted "That car's really cool!"
    
    What did they used to call these people, "plants" or "shills"? 
    I wonder how much they got?
    
    As for early sales, lots of people bought New Coke at first, too.
    The real measure of the success of this will be the problem reports
    on installation and running, the number of (attempted) returns, and
    the long-term sales, as well as overall customer satisfaction levels.
    If a substantial percentage of people end up feeling deceived by all
    of this hype, the damage could be considerable.  "Fool me once..."
    
    Chris

    
    <--- {grin}
    
    on a side note, it seems that the msdn "final release" of win95
    found its way to my office today... what a strange coinkidink.
    
    -b

tits to Windows 95, it won't boot on my PC anymore 'coz of an internal
error.  I'll stick with Linux, which runs Doom very nicely tyvm.

Chris.

    Snarf Me Up.

re: Pvt. Parts

>    What folks are buying is a migration path to NT which will be
>    the dominant OS by the year 2000.  
 
I don't follow. If I were going to upgrade to NT I'd simply do so and
bypass Windows '95 altogether. What would be the point of the extra
step?

re: Beta v. VHS

I bought my first VCR in 1984 and was perfectly free to choose VHS but
was "talked into" Beta by a friend who should have known. The first machine
was a monaural Sanyo - worked OK. Wanted to upgrade and time-shift a year
or two later and made the fatal mistake of buying a SONY Beta-Max (same
form factor as normal Beta, BTW) SLHF-4000. Biggest POS I ever purchased.
Spent more time in the shop (just after warranty expired) than it did
in my entertainment center and hasn't ever really worked well since. Of
course now I've got hundreds of L-750s recorded so I can't really
trash it altogether in good conscience. Since then I've invested in
some excellent Zenith and Quasar Hi-Fi VHS machines which cost me less
and have been virtually trouble free. If Beta presentation is any better,
you couldn't prove it by me, and I'm watching on a 27" screen with a
100 watt sound system.

 Microsoft - New Windows 95 users are flooding help lines. Digital mentioned
	{The Wall Street Journal, 28-Aug-95, p. B1}
   Lured by the promise that Microsoft Corp.'s Windows 95 software makes
 computers easier to use, Philip Jackson couldn't wait to start it up.  But
 after more than six hours on the phone over two days with Microsoft
 technicians Don, Madeline, Robert, Carter and Ron, he's still waiting.
   "I'm ready to throw the whole thing against the wall," said Mr. Jackson,
 owner of Steel City Bolt & Screw Inc. in Birmingham, Ala.  "My phone bill is
 going to cost me more than I paid for this."
   Windows 95, which has been flying off the shelves at an unprecedented rate,
 is supposed to make computing about as simple as driving a car.  But many
 enthusiasts are finding it difficult getting out of the garage.
   Installation of the complex operating system - the PC's command center - is
 proving to be downright agonizing for many.  And if early complaints are any
 indication, it appears the industry is still a long way from its goal of
 making computing simple even for novices.
   Since the Thursday release, Microsoft help lines - requiring a long-distance
 call, but no additional service fee for the first 90 days - have been jammed.
 Busy signals were standard during the day Friday and Saturday.  Within 10
 minutes of opening yesterday morning, callers got busy signals.  And the lucky
 customers who got through faced typical holds, with toll charges accumulating,
 of 45 minutes to an hour.
   "Even WE [italics - TT] have to sit on hold for 70 minutes if we have a
 question," said a Digital Equipment Corp. technician managing a Windows 95
 help-line.  Digital, which was one of five companies hired to help field
 calls, received 600 calls on a toll-free line by mid-Friday from people
 willing to pay $30 for help.
   "Our teams are pretty busy because people are getting sick of waiting on the
 Microsoft line," said Bob Webb, another Digital trouble-shooter.
   Frustrated customers found little help from computer manufacturers, whose
 help lines referred Windows 95 questions to Microsoft unless the software had
 come preinstalled on the PC.  Microsoft, in turn, appeared understaffed
 despite the months of elaborate launch plans.  The software giant added
 capacity to handle 20,000 Windows 95 calls a day, nearly doubling its usual
 load.  But with more than 300,000 copies sold in the U.S. in just the first
 day, capacity was overwhelmed.  A spokeswoman said the technical assistance
 lines were so overloaded at peak times that officials turned on the busy
 signal to keep customers from running up huge bills with "unreasonable" waits.
   Microsoft says its normal capacity for all its other products, not including
 the special Windows 95 support,  is 23,000 calls per day.  Microsoft projected
 its Windows 95 needs based on historical call data, a spokeswoman says.
 Company executives had predicted their help lines would be overwhelmed in the
 first few weeks.
   "All calls tend to be on setup," said Jennifer Moede, a spokeswoman for
 Microsoft.  "Once they get it on their system, they see it's easier to use."
   Getting there was a battle for Burns Searfoss, a stamp and coin dealer in
 Los Altos, Calif., who rushed out to buy the software after midnight Wednesday
 and then spent 13 hours over two days installing it.  "I'm extremely
 disappointed in it," he said.
   Even computer consultant Romano Dickerson had a five-hour ordeal installing
 Windows 95 on his machine, eventually having to reconfigure much of the PC's
 internal software to get it to work.  "For the person who is no PC expert,
 they are going to have problems," said Mr. Dickerson.
   To be sure, many early buyers of Windows 95 were happy converts, an no one
 expected such a massive new product launch to come off without complaints.
   Chris Chandler, a college student in Atlanta, installed his copy in 45
 minutes.  "It's more than I expected," he said of the software.  "I like it a
 lot."
   Justin Stangel, a comedy writer in New York, said his installation went
 well, even with two calls, each less than 10 minutes on hold, to Microsoft
 helpers.   The software, he says, is "very cool.  It all works very well."
   Sales figures, too, have been impressive.  PC Data Inc., a Reston, Va.,
 market research firm, estimates total U.S. retail sales of Windows 95 at about
 $20 million on Thursday.  CompUSA Chief Executive James Halpin said yesterday
 that the company has already reordered, though he declined to discuss actual
 numbers.  Mr. Halpin said there were some returns, but "nothing unusual," and
 95% of the customer response he has heard has been positive, with most
 complaints centering on installation problems.
   ARS Inc., a market research concern in Irving, Texas, said 85% of retailers
 surveyed found sales on Friday and Saturday were as good or better than the
 had been on the first day.  Microsoft said it expects to release early sales
 figures tomorrow.
   Mike Hagan, vice president of ARS, said only four of the 20 retailers
 surveyed reported any returns at all.
   At an Egghead Software store in Cambridge, Mass., manager Jim Averill said
 most customers had few if any problems, though a couple discovered they had
 received defective disks.  Help-line experts at Digital said the biggest
 problems they've seen so far are when customers' hardware - the PC itself and
 all the drives, modems and printers that go with it - isn't compatible with
 Windows 95, or when the software crashes in the middle of installation,
 leaving the computer crippled.
   The crush of calls is likely to get worse.  Compaq, for example, said it
 received only eight calls on its special Windows 95 help line Thursday, and
 fewer than 100 on Friday.  But Compaq customers who bought PCs this summer
 with vouchers for the new software won't receive Windows 95 until Friday.
 When that happens, Compaq expects call volume to rival the level of last
 fall's frenzy over a small math bug on Intel Corp's Pentium microprocessor.
   To ease the crush, Microsoft recommends that customers consult on-line
 services where installation tips, technical information and answers to
 frequently asked questions are posted.  Over time, computer users will become
 more familiar with the system, and will be able to help friends, too.  And
 customers willing to pay more for help may get faster service.  Microsoft has
 a toll-free line that requires a $35 service charge and a 1-900 service that
 charges by the minute, up to $35 per problem.
   None of that is much help to Mr. Jackson, the Birmingham businessman left in
 the lurch at least until today, when a top-level Microsoft "mentor" is
 supposed to call him.
   Three weeks ago, Mr. Jackson bought a Toshiba Corp. portable built to handle
 the memory-intensive Windows 95 program.  He picked up a copy early Thursday,
 and the computer died midway through.  Thus began a series of calls to
 Microsoft technicians who had him trying all kinds of fixes.  "We changed
 everything.  Everyone had new ideas," said Mr. Jackson.
   Late Friday, technical Ron Wollin told Mr. Jackson he was going to bump his
 query up one more supervisory level.  "Is Bill Gates available this
 afternoon?" Mr. Jackson quipped.
   He complained about losing a work day.  "But I guess I'll stick with it,"
 Mr. Jackson said.  "I'm more curious than anything right now."

    
>    I don't follow. If I were going to upgrade to NT I'd simply do so and
>    bypass Windows '95 altogether. What would be the point of the extra
>    step?
    
    
    That's not a bad question considering Win95 requires more resources
    than was orignally intended and NT has slimmed down tremendously.
    Currently people are recommending that NT have 16 meg, whereas
    8 meg is being recommended for Win95.  That is about a $400 difference
    in hardware.  Of course NT 3.5 Workstation costs about $400 as well,
    whereas Win95 costs about $90. Given that the PC market is highly 
    inelastic, that $790 difference is still substantial to lot's if
    folks.
    
    Anyway, Win95 was originally conceived as a way of nudging apps to
    use the WIN32 interface (invented for NT) and perhaps to increase
    the minimal acceptable amount of resources.  To earn one of those
    cute little Win95 logos for your app you must run against both
    Win95 and NT.  This is B.G.'s way of ensuring that the full set
    of apps that are Win95 compliant will easily transition to an NT
    market when MS goes to a single code base (i.e. NT) in a few years. 
                                                                       
    
    
      

    .112
    
    "...you make a grown man cry."
    
    Yeah, at least at install time.

    re: .113
    
    I paid $550 for 16mb parity memory.  NT Workstation is closer to $200
    retail.
    
    Bob

Hmmmmm. Lemmee see -

Spend $800 now and upgrade once or spend $200 now and $600 later and
upgrade twice. Decisions, decisions .....

>Spend $800 now and upgrade once or spend $200 now and $600 later and
>upgrade twice. Decisions, decisions .....

You will still need to upgrade again, because once NT and Win95 merge, they
will have a Win95 GUI look and feel...

/scott

    
    The Win95/NT upgrade stuff has nothing to do with you
    customer/user stiffs... it's for those that are
    creating _applications_. Application developers are already
    looking at a very different UI style guide for Win95,
    as well as the painful migration to the 32 bit API to
    realize the "full potential" (unless one is using some
    of the C++ libraries [e.g. the Foundation Classes] that
    make the change somewhat transparent.) Win95 gives these
    folks a stepping stone enroute to NT.
    
    Like OS/2, the expectation is that good NT applications
    will be mutlti-threaded, which is one potentially painful
    undertaking for developers. But even moreso is the fact
    that NT is a "protected" operating system. All the "fondle
    the hardware" hacks (in VBXs and the like) that we've
    been doing for years to squeeze performance out of Windows.
    are verboten in NT. There's a lot of code that breaks on
    NT.
    
    -b

    
    
    I heard on a local radio station that REM turned down big bucks
    for the use of the song "Its the end of the world as we know it".
    The Rolling Stones were second choice.  

    
    That's great
    It starts with an earthquake
    Birds and snake and aeroplanes
    And Lenny Bruce is not afraid...
    

>    I heard on a local radio station that REM turned down big bucks
>    for the use of the song "Its the end of the world as we know it".
>    The Rolling Stones were second choice.  


I must stop listening exclusively to talk radio.

"Start me up", at least I'd heard once or twice.

I don't think I even know what a REM is, outside of a BASIC program or
my AUTOEXEC.BAT file ....

REM sleep (rapid eye movement).  nnttm.

    .121
    
    You should listen to a better quality of music.  I've never heard
    "Start Me UP," but I know REM well.  _Green_ is a great album.

    .123
    
    Now THAT man is a hermit.

    
>>    Now THAT man is a hermit.

	that's him in the corner...

    .124
    
    What, me a hermit?  Just because I can't be bothered to pay much
    attention to a superannuated Brit who shouts about his lack of a sex
    life while prancing half-naked about on a stage in front of swooning
    microboppers?
    
    Get real.

    > What, me a hermit?  Just because I can't be bothered to pay much
    > attention to a superannuated Brit who shouts about his lack of a sex
    > life while prancing half-naked about on a stage in front of swooning
    > microboppers?
    
    Are you talking about John Major? :-)
    
    -b

>    You should listen to a better quality of music.

Actually, unless it's on a CD that I own, I don't listen to much of
any music at all. The only reason I happened to have ever heard
"Start Me Up" was that once, about 13 or 14 years ago, I subscribed
to an over-the-air pay-TV service called Prevue/Preview which used
to broadcast on the Worcester station, ch. 27. At the time I had my
subscription, they were selling a pay-per-view performance of a
Rolling Stones concert and everytime they ran the ad (about eleventy
times a day) they'd lead off with that song.

>>     <<< Note 530.126 by SMURF::BINDER "Night's candles are burnt out." >>>

	once you start him up, he never stops.

    All the more reason not to listen to his "music."

   .130  i meant you. ;>

	 and i _like_ jagger.  stones always had that raw edge that's
	 missing from most of the new stuff.  and they roll, not just rock.
  

    .131
    
    > i meant you. ;>
    
    Of course you did, my dear.  We understand, your hearing and judgment
    have been damaged by overexposure to that Jagger person.  I prefer my
    music with a little music in it.

   .132  i haven't been overexposed to Jagger.  i'd remember that, i'm
         quite sure. ;>  

	 expand your horizons, dear - it can't hurt.

    
    One who likes Oscar Peterson and Stanley Clarke is well on
    her way to excellent musical taste, so lapses like the
    Rolling Stones and the Cranberries are quite forgivable... :-)

    -b

    Oscar Peterson?  Give me Art Tatum and Teddy Wilson.

	yeah, Oscar Peterson.

	<genuflecting>

	hey, Bri, the Stones and the Cranberries are good.  i don't hold
	them in the high esteem i do other musicians, but they have their
	merits, imo.  

	re Peterson, Richard always has to say "oh, you like _that_
	excellent musician (vocalist, whatever)?  well, they suck compared
	to [fill-in-the-blank-with-his-favorite]."  it's some sort of
	compulsion i think.

    I get paid to say nasty things about musicians, so cope.  :-)

    
    <-- Yes, see 14.3582 8^).
    
    

    'Sides, I didn't say Peterson sucks.  He doesn't.  But I prefer Tatun
    and Wilson.  I also prefer James P. Johnson, the all-time master of
    stride piano.

    Speaking of the song "Start Me Up", what was the somewhat off-color
    lyric towards the end of that song?  I thought that someone had
    posted it in here once, but now I can't find it.
    
    Whatever it was, it seemed either strangely appropriate or
    counter-appropriate to the whole Windbag95 thing.
    
    Chris

    
    
    I kow it!  I know it!
    
    
    :*)
    

    
    Might it be: "You'd make a dead man cum"?
    
    -b

    
    > I kow it!  I know it!
    
    you KOW it?  .....hhhhhmmmmm... wonder what that means....
    

    
                          (__)
                          (oo)
                   /-------\/ 
                  / |     ||  
                 *  ||W---||  
                    ~~    ~~  

    

    
    
    <-------------
    
    
        Great knitting job mz_deb!!!!!!!!!!!!
    

                              /
                   __       //
                   -\= \=\ //
                 --=_\=---//=--
               -_==/  \/ //\/--
                ==/   /O   O\==--
   _ _ _ _     /_/    \  ]  /--
  /\ ( (- \    /       ] ] ]==-
 (\ _\_\_\-\__/     \  (,_,)--
(\_/                 \     \-
\/      /       (   ( \  ] /)
/      (         \   \_ \./ )
(       \         \      )  \
(       /\_ _ _ _ /---/ /\_  \
 \     / \     / ____/ /   \  \
  (   /   )   / /  /__ )   (  )
  (  )   / __/ '---`       / /
  \  /   \ \             _/ /
  ] ]     )_\_         /__\/
  /_\     ]___\
 (___)

	  oO)-.
	 /__  _\       
	 \  \(  |      
	  \__|\ {                                             
	  '  '--'   
    	
    	   eh?

    
    re: 145

    I always wondered about that cow rendering... I mean, what
    kind of cow has udders _and_ horns? Is there anything in
    Leviticus about it, and is it legal for it to marry in
    Colorado?

    -b

    >> Might it be: "You'd make a dead man cum"?
    
    Yeah, I think that's it, hah!  Seems appropriate to Windbag 95!
    
    Chris

    
    re: .147
    
    Ooooooooo... Mike!!!
    
    Pearl Bailey woulda been proud of you!!!
    

    .149
    
    > what
    > kind of cow has udders _and_ horns?
    
    A cow has one udder.  As for what kind of cow has an udder and horns,
    look up "polled" in a good dictionary.  That'll tell you what kind
    doesn't.

    
    Doya think, Anj?

    Is that a 10 foot polled?

    Ask Andy, but I don't think he's that tall.

    Perhaps his schtick?

    
    
     And that fish I caught was this looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong!!!
    

    fish schticks now?

    
    Nope.... ash schticks....
    

    
    schticks and Stones...
    

    <---- Oh I hate that, when you sit on a bleacher that had Coke spilt
    all over it.

    Okay, I give up... what's .148?
    
    Chris

    
    A frog?
    

    
    Get with it Chris.  It's Hedley Lamarr's frog.
    
     

    I figguered it had to be the blurred areas of some old
    photographs, but looking at it again it looks more like your
    brain on windows 95

    
    
    Blurred??
    
    Did someone say "alien genitals"???
    

    .147 would most assuredly look better on black velvet.

    
    Bri, You got a black velvet monitor !!!!! COOOOOOL where'd ya get it?
    

    I finally saw the commercial last night (of course last night was
    also the first time I watched tv this week).  I noticed they
    only used the beginning of the song and not the part where they
    sing,
    
    "You make a grown man cry."
    
    Evidently they're saving that for when you're trying to install
    it.......
    
    

    
    
    :*)
    

re:.112
>The software giant added
>capacity to handle 20,000 Windows 95 calls a day, nearly doubling its usual
>load.  But with more than 300,000 copies sold in the U.S. in just the first
>day, capacity was overwhelmed.

What, they couldn't find enough help from Asia, Mexico, Latin America, et al.? 

------ Forwarded Message

Microsoft Windows 95 Stuns World
     
Friday August 25 09:31 a.m. EDT        Rob Freundlich [email protected]
     
Redmond, Wash (AP) - Fans and detractors of the long-awaited Microsoft 
Windows 95 have been stunned and amazed by the incredible events 
surrounding the August 24 release. Windows 95 has been hailed by industry 
giant Pierson Holcombe Pewter as "the most advanced operating system ever 
produced."  But even he could not have predicted yesterday's events.
     
It began when peace was declared in Bosnia.  Said Ahmad G'Hui, 
spokesperson for the Serbs, "Now that [Windows 95] has been released, we 
just don't see any reason to fight each other.  This is an amazing 
product."
     
Then France announced its intention to stop all testing of nuclear 
weapons. "We used to think that our national boundaries were of utmost 
import.  To safeguard them, it was necessary to continue testing 
[nuclear weapons]," said Jacques Fenetre of the French government.
"The Microsoft Network (tm) has changed all of that.  It's such a small 
planet!"
     
On the other side of the "small planet", George Bush and Saddam Hussein 
met face-to-face for the first time.  After a tense greeting, they 
started sharing notes about their experiences as Windows 95 beta-testers.
Soon the two lifelong enemies were laughing and chatting like old friends. 
In a startling display of candor, Hussein said "If I hadn't been so 
frustrated with the beta, I'd have backed off from Kuwait much sooner." 
Bush laughed and commiserated with Hussein, saying "Well, Saddam, I
*told* you it'd be released eventually, all you had to do was wait. 
Hey!  Let's play some FreeCell!"
     
Oil prices dropped as OPEC transferred their accounting software to the 
new platform.  Loggers in the United States' Pacific Northwest turned 
their axes in for spades after seeing a Microsoft Video of spotted owls 
using Windows 95.  In an economic shocker, the Peso reversed its 
downward spiral due to huge Windows 95 sales in Acapulco and Mexico 
City.
     
On the health front, Hildegard Wicca, a housewife in Boston, MA, reports 
that Windows 95 has removed her facial warts.  "I sat down in front of 
the computer, pressed 'Start', and felt something odd on my face.  When 
I looked in a mirror, my warts were gone!"  Even more amazing is the 
story of Mark Cense, the Los Alamos man who was reported last week as 
having an incurable, fatal form of cancer.  His doctors were amazed 
yesterday when, after simply buying Windows 95 at the local Computer 
Universe store, his cancer went into remission.
     
When asked for a comment on these almost miraculous events, Microsoft's 
Bill Gates, recently declared to be the richest man in the United States, 
replied "If you think *this* is good, just wait until you see Windows 
97!"
     
Reports that China's release of dissident Harry Wu was contingent on his 
returning with "as many copies of Windows 95 as he can carry" are 
unconfirmed at this time.

------ End of Forwarded Message

    
      According to Microsoft, Windoze95 exceeded 1 million users after
     about 4 days from its market release, a new world's record.
    
      bb

    
    
    RE: .173  SOURCE.....Where's your source??????  Lie, why do you lie?
    
    
    

>      According to Microsoft, Windoze95 exceeded 1 million users after
>     about 4 days from its market release, a new world's record.

I don't doubt that 1 million customers had the product in hand. Whether
or not they are actually users yet is a separate matter.

>            <<< Note 530.175 by GRANPA::MWANNEMACHER "NRA member" >>>
>                                    -< :') >-

     
>    RE: .173  SOURCE.....Where's your source??????  Lie, why do you lie?
    
 I find lieing is a good way to infuriate all you libs :-}   
    
:-}

    
    Low blow, Amos. :')

    >I find lieing 
    
     lying. /hth

    
>     lying. /hth

I find that when busy lieing/lying I'm too busy to spell :-}

    Apple did a little bit of cashing in on the Windows '95 hype,
    in their typical laid-back California way.  Big moving billboards
    driven around the Silicon Valley and in major print ads, hi-lighting
    the limitation that Windows '95 has only finally surpassed, a decade
    behind the Mac:
    
    C:\ONGRTLTNS.W95
    
    ROTFL,
    
    DougO

You've got some extra letters there.

    The Stones.  I give 'em 5 thumbs up.  Ya.
    Blender, go buy "Some Girls" tonight and turn it up when you get home.

You've got five thumbs?  Have you ever dropped in to Roswell, NM?

    
    
    ssshhh.  don't disturb dick.  he's listening to his roger whittaker
    tapes...
    

    Either that or Zamfir (sp?  The dude with that fairy-flute deal).

    
                          (_|_)
                          (oo)
                   /-------\/     meow.
                  / |     ||  
                 *  ||WWW-||  
                    ~~    ~~  

    

    
    That's when you lived near Love Canal, yes?
    
    

    Does anyone know how to disable the virus detection software. I haven't
    been able to load Win95 because virus protection in enabled. I have an
    AT&T PC with an Award BIOS.
    
    ...Tom

    
    I'll tell you as soon as I can stop laughing about this "easy
    to install" software not installing.
    
    -b

Guy on WBUR this morning was saying people might replace their PCs with new
ones with Windows 95 already installed so they don't have to upgrade.

    re: .191
    
    This is how I've felt the last two evenings.

    
    Win 95's no doubt interpreting "virus" as "something written by
    someone other than Microsoft"!!! BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAA !!!!
    
    -b

    :)

>> Guy on WBUR this morning was saying people might replace their PCs with new
>> ones with Windows 95 already installed so they don't have to upgrade.
    
    I'm sure that this has also occurred to the hardware vendors.
    I've been reading lots of PC mags in the last few months, and
    they're all orgastic over this whole thing.  Now at first glance,
    that's pretty strange.  Why should they care about a software
    upgrade, unless they're convinced that it will bring them in
    lots more money in new hardware sales?
    
    Before anyone buys Win95, I strongly suggest going into the
    RANGER::WINDOWS95 conference, set seen/before=24-aug-1995,
    and read through the stories, keeping in mind that the people
    wrestling with this beast already know quite a bit about PC
    hardware and software.  Now imagine the "average" person at
    home trying to deal with this thing.  Ho-ho.
    
    Chris

re .193:

Yup.  When working with NT on an Alphastation 200 it would complain
about the "virus" on its other disk.  That disk had Unix on it.

Purty smart software, I'd say.

    I love the cover of the current issue of PC Magazine, which of course
    focuses on Winwoes 95.  On the cover, next to the words "The Complete
    Windows 95 Guide", appears this goodie in large type:
    
    
    				1,001
    				Drivers
    				You Need
    				To Make
    				It Work
    
    
    What the hey?  :-)  On top of a new CPU, doubling the system memory,
    and adding a second hard disk, now I need one thousand and one drivers
    to make it work?
    
    The articles inside are interesting, if for nothing else than to
    demonstrate just how counter-intuitive much of this remains.  The
    ads contain, to my eye, a tinge of insistent desperation (or should
    that be desperate insistence)?
    
    Chris

re: .198

Don't be a dork.

SOME (read: NOT MANY) people will need a new CPU.  SOME people will
need 2x memory.  SOME people may even need a second disk. MOST people
won't need to find ANY new drivers (it's with the OS), and SOME who
do will need 1/2dozen at most.

The flaws in Windows95 stand very well on their own, thank you very much.
There's no need to spread FUD like it's manure.  You just wind up stinking
yourself.

Or do you wanna start talking about init-conflict-catchers, rebooting
to change from printing to modems, that old Claris that won't work on
System 7.5, and "Garbage means garbage except for dismounting a floppy?"

\john

re a few back, what do other OSs do that Win'95/NT can't?

Er, how about; multiuser facilities, more comprehensive data protection,
better file systems, much better efficiency (that one sounds a bit vague,
so I'll back it up with a figure I heard recently, which is that Unix
runs about 30% faster on the same hardware [personally I think that is
a conservative estimate])  Once I find out more about the internals, I'm
sure the list could be extended quite a bit!

Chris.

    re: .199
    
    Reality check time:  .198 is a joke.  Of course nobody will need
    1,001 drivers to make Winboze 95 work.  It's just that the wording
    of the article title on the cover made the situation look quite dire.
    
    I can't believe you thought that I took that "1,001 drivers" thing
    literally and at face value...
    
    As for the need for upgrading CPUs, disks, and memory, I'll hold fast
    however with my assertion that there's a lot more people out there
    limping along with 386's, 4 MB memory, and 80MB hard disks, than the
    industry would care to acknowledge.  And most of the literature I've
    been getting would seem to corroborate this, being so intent on the
    hardware upgrades.  I still believe that there's a substantial
    percentage out PC owners out there who won't upgrade the OS because
    they don't want to spend a lot of hardware bucks.
    
    Chris

RE: 530.200 by CBHVAX::CBH "Lager Lout"

> re a few back, what do other OSs do that Win'95/NT can't?
> Er, how about; multiuser facilities, 

I'm not sure if Win'95 has any multiuser facilities,  but Windows NT sure
does.


> more comprehensive data protection,  better file systems, 

Win'95 has the old,  creaky,  junky FAT file system,  hacked to use longer
filenames.  WinNT has NTFS,  which is a modern,  reliable file system.


> much better efficiency (that one sounds a bit vague,  so I'll back it up 
> with a figure I heard recently, which is that Unix runs about 30% faster 
> on the same hardware 

The highest "efficiency" is going to come from an OS like DOS:  with NO 
protection and checking.  Given a choice between faster DOOM screens and
being able to disallow access to a file for group "Kids",  DOOM loses.

Now,  I agree that some types of Unix are a better (more secure) OS than 
is MacOS,  but Unix isn't an operating system.  It's a family of operating
systems.  "You are in a twisty maze of operating systems,  all alike.  Or 
all different,  as the case may be."


Phil

For the record I've had no troubles on my PC upgrading to Win95...

It's a P5/60, 8MB, 256k Cache, PCI EIDE, PCI S3 video 1 MB,
SoundBlaster AWE32, SCSI controller w/ a NEC 3Xi SCSI CD-ROM, 
14.4K modem, 3 IDE disks, 2 3.5" floppy drives.

All went fine from 6.22. 

Then I did have a problem. My system disk died on me. But it wasn't
Win95's fault, as my disk continued to corrupt itself even after 
installing DOS 5.0... so I had to disconnect that drive, so now I've
just 2 drives (1.5GB compressed) to play with. 

Rebuilt my system from scratch, and all runs smooth. Since I like 
this kinda stuff, I'm thinking of going up to 16MB, and maybe 512K cache.
(I can actually goto 1 MB cache, if I wanted to)

I'd also like to upgrade my SCSI to a really fast card, since I've only
got a 1022 (or whatever it is... it's the bottom line apdetec card...)

Maybe get a 1.x GB disk too...  ;-)

Oh ya, and a tape backup system (SCSI tape device preferred...)

/scott

>Oh ya, and a tape backup system (SCSI tape device preferred...)

I know where there's a spare 150MB Viper... probably not much use, tho'! :)

Chris.

>I know where there's a spare 150MB Viper... probably not much use, tho'! :)

Anyone have a spare TLZ06 w/ the Win96 drivers and backup program???  ;-)

/scott

    Why do they call the 3.5" drives "floppy" drives?  They don't flop a
    bit.  The 5" ones flopped quite well, but the 3.5" ones are actually
    quite rigid. 

    He's showing his youth and inexperience.  Ask me about 8" floppies
    sometime, Steve.
    
    DougO

Doug just claims they're 8" floppies.  Ask his SO how big they really are.

>    Why do they call the 3.5" drives "floppy" drives?  They don't flop a
>    bit.  The 5" ones flopped quite well, but the 3.5" ones are actually
>    quite rigid. 

Well - you can slid the little metal shield and see the disk part and 
bend it... Or you could crack the case open and flop it between your
fingers, or use it as a small frisbee...

/scott

    
    8" floppies, they weren't too floppy.  Now punched cards or paper
    tape, that stuff was floppy.
    
    								-mr. bill

    
    	Didn't the TRS80 Model II's use 8" floppies?
    
    	I used to hate those machines ... didn't even do graphics.  Give
    	me a Model III any day.
    

    
    Which reminds me.  Why are laptop drives given as inches in diameter
    and mm height, when they really are mm in diameter and inches in
    height?
    
    And how does IBM get away with redefining "MB" to be "million bytes".
    
    								-mr. bill

    
    	What's the difference between 14MB and 14 million bytes?
    

    .211
    
    Model I's kicked Model III butt.

    When I worked for CPT Corporation ('82 -'85), the state of the art
    machine had a full page screen, dual 8" floppies, 128k of memory, all
    for the bargain basement price of $10,995.  The Tempest model was
    $14,995.  Knew some sales types that were pullin down $200k= in those
    days.
    
    Dan

    Uhm...folks.  I was kidding.  It was a joke, a funny (a very small one,
    obviously).  8^)
    
    Tongue was firmly planted in cheek when I posted my previous.  

    
    GEEEZZZ 8" floppies, punch cards, paper tapes!
    
    I thought I'd heard the last of those goddard things!  This line of
    discussion belongs in the GAK note!
    :-|
    
    Dan
    

The Philips P4000 booted of 8" floppies (I vaguely know those systems as
I'm one of the rabble imported into Digital from Philips Informiation
Systems, affectionally known as `Piss')  The P4000 was (is, in fact) one
of the oddest systems I've ever seen.  If anyone could explain how it
worked I'd be grateful!

Chris.

Does Win'95 have a driver for a punched card reader?

Chris.

    
    > Does Win'95 have a driver for a punched card reader?
    
    No I'm sorry, the punch card reader driver is not available until
    Win'97.  Scheduled to be released in 2010.....HTH
    
    

>    No I'm sorry, the punch card reader driver is not available until
>    Win'97.  Scheduled to be released in 2010.....HTH
    
oh well, I guess I'll just have to adapt the telepathy driver.

Chris.

    >GEEEZZZ 8" floppies, punch cards, paper tapes!
    
    Remember all the nasty things that could be done with all those
    zillions of punch thingies?!   :)

>    Remember all the nasty things that could be done with all those
>    zillions of punch thingies?!   :)

...like extremely crap confetti?  Now, onto the Monty Python `string'
sketch...

Chris.

    It's just a flesh wound!
    
    Your arms off!
    
    I've had worse.

    
    	come back here ya pansy! I'll bite yer kneecaps off!
    
    

    I cannot be defeated! (jumping around with no arms)
    
    You're a loon.

>    You're a loon.

er, yeah, pot and kettle and all that stuff... :)

Chris.

    <---- THAT'S NOT A MONTY PYTHON LINE!!!  Get with the program.  8^)

Oh alright then.  Slight change of direction...

"You're a loony!"

"But I get so bored..."

    DECmate I's (basically a PDP8) used 8" floppies
    

    Has anyone downloaded and used Microsoft Money, that is free until the
    end of October. I am considering doing this and am interested in
    anyone's experience. Quicken is firmly planted in this brain so it
    resists this change. However, I will overcome if it seems worth it.

	I'll take some free Microsoft Money.  Is Bill Gates signing
	the checks ?

Had my first experience of NT last week.  Call that a *real* operating
system?  It was crap.

Chris$unimpressed.

    I've been using Windows95 since about a week following it's release. I
    am not a sophisticated user but, all in all I like it very much. The
    thing I like most about it is that I never seem to run out of memory on
    my 8meg machine. I'm am glad I bought it. I also downloaded Microsoft
    Money (IT WAS FREE AND I LOVE FREE). I love it, after using it for one
    day I exported all of my Quicken files and dumped Quicken from my
    Hard drive. MS Money was written for Win95 and it shows. I'm looking
    forward to new software developed for Win95.
    
    I am a satisfied customer. 

I must admit, despite my disdain of NT, I quite like Windows 95, it has
probably the best user interface I've used so far (and that includes
Macs!)  IXI have now released a version of Motif that looks identical,
unfortunately this costs money so I haven't used it yet, but it's available
for Digital Unix; if anyone's interested, I'll dig out the details.

Chris.

    So, how are Win 95 sales going?  It seems that after the first
    rabid week or so, things kinda died down.  In most stores that
    I've been in during the last month, I see pallet-loads and stacks
    of this stuff on the floor, but it doesn't appear to be moving
    very fast.  In one store I overheard one clerk talking to someone
    on the phone saying that they hadn't sold any Windows 95 stuff
    the whole day.
    
    Any idea of the percentage of, er, penetration so far amongst
    Windows 3.1 users?
    
    Chris

from:
OnLine Today
WOR Radio Metwork
_______________________________________________________________________________

The Last Person on Earth without Windows 95 !
     
  There was a knock on the door.  It was the man from Microsoft.
     
  "Not you again," I said.

  "Sorry," he said, a little sheepishly.
     
  "I guess you know why I'm here."
     
  Indeed I did.  Microsoft's $300 million campaign to promote the
Windows 95 operating system was meant to be universally 
effective, to convince every human being on the planet that 
Windows 95 was an essential, some would say integral, part of 
living.  Problem was, not everyone had bought it.  Specifically, 
_I_ hadn't bought it.  I was the Last Human Being Without Windows 
95.  And now this little man from Microsoft was  at my door, and 
he wouldn't take no for an answer.  
     
  "No," I said.
     
  "You know I can't take that," he said, pulling out a copy of
Windows 95 from a briefcase.
     
  "Come on.  Just one copy.  That's all we ask."
     
  "Not interested." I said.
     
  "Look, isn't there someone else you can go bother for a while?
There's got to be someone else on the planet who doesn't have a 
copy."
     
  "Well, no," The Microsoft man said.  "You're the only one."
     
  "You can't be serious. Not everyone on the planet has a
computer," I said.  "Hell, not everyone on the planet has a PC! 
Some people own Macintoshes, which run their own operating 
system.  And some people who have PCs run OS/2, even if Microsoft
claims that that's just a rumor. In short, there  are some people
who just have no use for Windows 95."
     
  The Microsoft man looked perplexed.  "I'm missing your point," he
said.  
     
     
  "Use!" I screamed.  "Use! Use! Use! Why BUY it, if you can't USE
it?"
     
  "Well, I don't know anything about this 'use' thing you're going
on about," The Microsoft man said.  "All I know is that according 
to our records, everyone else on the planet has a copy."
     
  "People without computers?"
     
  "Got 'em." 

  "Amazonian Indians?" 

  "We had to get some malaria shots to go in, but yes." 
     
  "The Amish."
     
  "Check."
     
  "Oh, come on," I said.  "They don't even wear BUTTONS.  How did
you get them to buy a computer operating system?"
     
  "We told them there were actually 95 very small windows in the
box," the Microsoft man admitted.  "We sort of lied.  Which means 
we are all going to Hell, every single employee of Microsoft." He 
was somber for a minute, but then perked right up.  "But that's 
not the point!" he said.  "The point is, EVERYONE has a copy. 
Except you."
     
  "So what?" I said.  "If everyone else jumped off a cliff, would
you expect me to do it, too?"
     
  "If we spent $300 million advertising it?  Absolutely."
     
  "No."
     
  "Jeez, back to that again," the Microsoft man said.  "Hey.  I'll
tell you what.  I'll GIVE you a copy.  For free.  Just take it 
and install it  on your computer." He waved the box in front of 
me.
     
  "No," I said again.  "No offense, pal.  But I don't need it.  And
frankly, your whole advertising blitz has sort of offended me.  I 
mean, it's a computer operating system! Great.  Fine.  Swell. 
Whatever.  But you guys are advertising it like it creates world 
peace or something."
     
  "It did."
     
  "Pardon?" 

  "World peace.  It was part of the original design.  Really.  
One button access.  Click on it, poof, end to strife and 
hunger.  Simple."
     
  "So what happened?" 

  "Well, you know," he said.  "It took up a lot of space on the 
hard drive.  We had to decide between it or Microsoft Network.  
Anyway, we couldn't figure out how to make a profit off of world 
peace."
     
  "Go away," I said.
     
  "I can't," he said.  "I'll be killed if I fail." 
     
  "You have got to be kidding," I said.  

"Look," the Microsoft man said, "We sold this to the AMISH.  
The Amish! Right now, they're opening the boxes and figuring out 
they've been had.  We'll be pitchforked if we ever step into 
Western Pennsyvania again.  But we did it.  So to have YOU holding 
out, well, it's embarassing. It's embarassing to the company. 
It's embarassing to the product.  It's embarassing to BILL."
     
  "Bill Gates does not care about me," I said.
     
  "He's watching right now," the Microsoft man said.  "Borrowed one
of those military spy satellites just for the purpose.  It's also 
got one of those high-powered lasers.  You close that door on me, 
zap, I'm a pile of grey ash."
     
  "He wouldn't do that," I said, "He might hit that copy of Windows
95 by accident." 

  "Oh, Bill's gotten pretty good with that laser," the Microsoft 
man said, nervously.  "Okay.  I wasn't supposed to do this, but 
you leave me no choice.  If you take this copy of Windows 95, 
we will reward you handsomely.  In fact, we'll give 
you your own Caribbean island! How does Montserrat sound?"
     
  "Terrible.  There's an active volcano there."
     
  "It's only a small one," the Microsoft man said.
     
  "Look," I said, "even if you DID convince me to take that copy of
Windows 95, what would you do then? You'd have totally saturated 
the market.  That would be it. No new worlds to conquer.  What 
would you do then?"
     
  The Microsoft man held up another box and gave it to me.

  "'Windows 95....For Pets'?!?!?" 

  "There's a LOT of domestic animals out there," he said.
     
  I shut the door quickly.  There was a surprised yelp, the sound
of a laser, and then nothing.

    re: .238
    
    Excellent!  Once in a while you run into something that makes
    you say to yourself, "I wish I'd written that!"  Especially the
    paragraph with the 95 little windows for the Amish.  Bwah!
    
    Chris

	A friend of mine was showing me her house last week. She said her
husband was going to have his computer room in the basement. Later she showed
us this other room that I thought would be a great computer room. So I told her
that, and said it would be a better room because this one had windows. She and
a friend of mine groaned..... but it took me a while to realize why..... I hate
when I say a joke, but don't know it. :-)

re: .234, Chris

Just out of curiosity, what problems do you find with NT?

    
    Just last night, I had another installation-from-hell
    experience with Win 95. It still isn't right; I'll
    probably burn most of tonight on it.
    
    I'm also installing Win NT Server 3.51... should be loads
    of fun. I swear, if I didn't make my living from this
    stuff...
    
    -b

    re: .249
    
    I've got both on the same system.  The win95 was an upgrade from wfw
    3.11 and nt was an upgrade from 3.5.
    
    Don't know if I can help, but call me if you get stuck and I'll try.
    
    Bob

>Just out of curiosity, what problems do you find with NT?

my main problem with the thing was a lack of a command line (when will
we see DCL or ksh ported to it? :), a lack of adherence to some standards
as regards networking, relatively poor performance, rather untidily
designed system admin facilities, awkward user configuration; and the
fact that I basically didn't enjoy using the system.  At all.

Chris.

RE: 530.251 by CBHVAX::CBH "Lager Lout"

> my main problem with the thing was a lack of a command line (when will
> we see DCL or ksh ported to it?

There is a "MSDOS" command line,  and there are both ksh and csh freeware
command lines that can be added.  I haven't seen a DCL one.


Phil

>There is a "MSDOS" command line,

urgh, vomit!

>  and there are both ksh and csh freeware

ah, should've known they might crop up... can they be invoked remotely?

Chris.

    Ah, I've seen THAT syndrome before...
    
    The best example was in "The Producers" where the little old lady said
    to her chauffeur:
    
    "OOhh RoDOLfo!  You dirty PIG!!!
    
    Pull Over!"
    

Chris,     
    
    Here's something that a co-worker discovered.  It may be of use to
    you if you're using tcp/ip.
    
    Regards,
    MadMike
    
I recently attended a class on TCP/IP and Windows NT.  It was very useful, and I 
wanted to bring one particular item to your attention.   Although many of you 
probably know this, you can (sometimes greatly) increase TCP/IP performance on a 
Windws NT system by adding a value to the registry and restarting the machine.  

Go to the key:

\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Tcpip\Parameters
and add a value of type REG_DWORD called:		tcpwindowsize
click OK, then select decimal, and type in 4380 and click OK.

This parameter tells TCP/IP to use a sliding window buffer of 4K, rather than 
the default of 8K.  On most networks, this cuts down on dropped packets at the 
router, and increases performance.  On my system, I saw a performace increase of 
over 60% immediately.  It has made a huge difference in my performance. 

I hope this helps you as much as it helped me!

    
    chris,
    
    you might also take a look at the Resource Kit.  it contains 
    a posix subsystem as well as lots of executables that allow
    you to grep, ls, cat etc. from dos command line.  you need
    to set a path to the reskit path.
    
    bob
    

       And from the POSIX command line, you can just type dcl and use any
       DCL command!  At least that's how it works on my system...

These have possibly already been posted, but what the heck, patches have been 
issued for a few particularly nasty bugs



http://www.microsoft.com/windows/software/updates.html
http://www.zdnet.com/~pcweek/news/1009/twinbu.html
http://www.zdnet.com/~pcweek/reviews/1016/tr42bug.html



\C

Okay, so we have an operating system that looks a bit like Unix and VMS,
but is about 30% slower than either and unproven.  So why not just use
Unix or VMS?

Chris.

    
    | Okay, so we have an operating system that looks a bit like Unix and
    | VMS, but is about 30% slower than either and unproven.  So why not just use
    | Unix or VMS?
    
    NT has a ways to go to get the server market.  There is going to 
    be closer coupling between VMS and NT and VMS will support the
    WIN32 api.  The workstation market however is a different story,
    NT is doing very well there because the ability to run windows
    apps. 
  
      

    re: .259
    
>but is about 30% slower than either and unproven.  So why not just use
>Unix or VMS?
    
    Last time I checked, VMS won't boot on my 486.  Is there a flavor of
    Unix that will run all my Windows apps on my 486 and costs < $200?
    
    Bob
    

    Hmmm... does NT run DOS apps, or only Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 apps
    (as well as "NT apps", of course)?
    
    Chris

RE: 530.262 by DECWIN::RALTO "Clinto Berata Nikto"

I'm a reasonably happy WNT user.  Well over half of DOS apps run under WNT.  
Games,  about half.  Serious programs,  most will work well.  Usual sort of 
reasons why they many not are:

Wanting to directly touch the hardware.  Some DOS applications want to
directly read (ug) and write (GACKKK!) the hard drive.  Some DOS and Win31
applications want to directly read or write floppies,  so far I've found
workarounds for these.  Most common problem is not getting sound as the 
application wants to directly talk to the sound board.  Sometimes lack of 
sound isn't a big problem,  sometimes it is.

I've also gotten a DOS program that wants to rearrange the memory map "to
improve video".  It dies in a really messy fashion,  it queues up a bunch
of memory as a print job?!?  I not sure if this is a good example,  as I
can't get it to run under DOS as well.

Also,  I can't use one company's program with their "fancy" fonts,  only with
True Type fonts.  Not sure why.


Phil

    That's interesting, thanks Phil.  I've been wondering if/when to
    go to NT, sometime after I get this new motherboard installed,
    mainly so I can catch up on Visual C++ versions.
    
    In my case, I suspect that most of my DOS programs want to access
    the video hardware directly.  For this reason I've been skittish
    about even attempting to run any of them from Windows at all, so
    typically I jump in and out of Windows a few times a day.
    
    I don't think this approach will be very effective with NT... :-)
    
    Chris

>    Last time I checked, VMS won't boot on my 486.  Is there a flavor of
>    Unix that will run all my Windows apps on my 486 and costs < $200?
    
on the VMS front, I think that it was a major cock-up of DEC (surprising,
eh?) not to make it available for other platforms in the early days.  If
they had, it would probably be one of the major OS's around today rather
than a niche player.

On your second point, there's a flavour of Unix which costs nothing which
will run very well even on a cheapo platform like a 386 with 4MB of
memory (and even on such a limited platform, it is *fast*), called Linux.
A product is being developed, although I'm not sure how far it is from
completion, called WINE, which will quite happily run your windows
applications for you.  A bit like Sun's WABI, only quicker as it doesn't
have to do code translation.

Chris.

...just an additional thought... why Windows applications, specifically?
Just because they're popular, it doesn't make them particularly good.

Chris.

    
   | ...just an additional thought... why Windows applications,
   | specifically? Just because they're popular, it doesn't make 
   | them particularly good.
    
    well, mr. gates is a pretty smart guy, and he realized about a
    decade ago that if you dominate the desktop you'll eventually dominate
    the entire industry including servers.  people are visual creatures
    and most do not want to futz around with computers, they just want
    it to solve real problems.  much in the same way my little girls
    used to call a terminal at home "the computer", peoples notion of
    what a computer is has been fashioned by what they see at the
    desktop.  for all its quirks, windows is ubiquitous, and provides 
    a defacto standard set of apps for doing things (e.g. access, word).
    this notion has not been lost by management who travels at 30,000
    feet for the better part of a year banging on their laptops.  when
    they get back to the office and munge on their server systems, they
    don't want another interface and set of tools to do the same things
    they do when traveling or at home.  this becomes a big issue when
    hiring folks to do stuff.  if you had to outfit your office with
    desktop software, would you pick apple, os/2, or windows?  you probably
    would go with windows because of its dominance.  a lot more people
    know it, hence your pool of technically competent employees is bigger
    to chose from, hence you probably can hire them for less money and
    possibly spend less on training (assuming they took their licks
    spinning up on windows apps elsewhere.)
    
     
      

I guess I'm just old fashioned... I used VMS and Unix for quite a while
before I had to use DOS; not surprisingly I didn't like it, and as they
say, first impressions die hard...

Chris.

RE: 530.264 by DECWIN::RALTO "Clinto Berata Nikto"

> In my case, I suspect that most of my DOS programs want to access the 
> video hardware directly.

I have seen one problem with a program (a shareware game) traceable to how it 
accesses the screen.  It was trying to maintain it's own mouse pointer. 
Didn't run under prerelease,  ran under 3.1,  didn't run under 3.5.


Phil

    re: .265
    
    I'm familiar with Linux.  
    
    re: Wine. Any O/S or software that causes my software to run noticably
    slower than it currently does on my 486 is unacceptable.
    
    Bob

    re: .266
    
    Because I have almost as much money invested in software as I do in
    hardware.
    
    Bob

    I just bought a 28.8 modem to replace my old one. What's the best way
    to make the switch with WIN95?
    
    

>         <<< Note 530.272 by DASHER::RALSTON "screwiti'mgoinhome.." >>>
>
>    I just bought a 28.8 modem to replace my old one. What's the best way
>    to make the switch with WIN95?
    
I theory, you should just be able to pull out the old modem, plug in the 
new modem and turn on the PC.  When Windows 95 boots it should notice the 
new modem and take you to the add hardware set-up wizard.

In reality, Let us know...

--Geoff   

    
    RE: .273
    
    I really can't take laughing that hard this early in the day.
    Please, stop, you're killing me!!!! :-)
    
    -b

    There are two ways to add a modem that I can see. One is to just
    replace the old one and start "add new hardware". This is suppose to take
    care of it, as long as Win95 recognizes the modem. The other is to
    start the modem program using the Modem icon. What I would like to know
    is, do I have to set the switches on the modem for the Com Port I want
    or will Win95 reconfigure using the modem's default setting. 
    
    I think I will first delete my old modem using "modem delete". Next I will
    set my new modem switches to Com4, which is where win95 has it set now.
    Then I will shut down the machine and switch the modems. I will boot up
    the machine and then use "add modem".
    
    I've had very good experience with Win95 up until now. I hope I can say
    that after this.

Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft
From: [email protected] (Matthew J. Bouchard)
Subject: This Message Will Self-Destruct
 
	 		Impossible Mission Force
				  IMF
 
			   T O P  S E C R E T
 
 
Good morning Jim,
 
Bill Gates will attempt to take over the entire Nation of the United 
States of America hostage.  By using marketing tactics, inferior code, and 
his patented "Super-HYPE-O-Tron" (TM), he has effectively brainwashed 
almost all computer users of the world. Not satisfied with only 
"competing" in the Operating System, Wordprocessor, Spreadsheet, Network, 
Games, Compiler, Database, Drawing, Charting, Unix OS, and more recently 
the Sound Card and mouse markets, Mircosoft has recently embarked on a 
more ambitious venture. THE COMPANY, headed by William Gates III, will 
attempt to make a "hostile takeover" of the United States of America, 
thus turning unsuspecting citizens into common slaves.
 
	Microsoft has been secretly hoarding trillions of dollars that
they made selling any of their various products.  While most sane people
would suspect that Microsoft has profited only several billion dollars,
they do not realize that the bulk of Microsoft's programs are coded by
THREE GUYS FROM QUEENS in about two weeks!  With almost pure profit from
the sales of Mr. Gates software, he invested half in himself (Microsoft),
and saved the other half in a Swiss bank account.  When his stock recently
split, he accumulated the amount of money to make his bid for the United
States.  Seeing that the USA is in Chapter 11 bankruptcy, Mr.  Gates will
make his bid on the nation and attempt to "buy out" the ailing country.
 
	The problem for us is that people don't care.  They have been
under Microsoft's reign for so long that they have forgotten what good
software look like, and thusly, have forgotten how to think logically. 
The most difficult part of your assignment will not be putting Microsoft
out of business, but, will be leading the people of the United States back
to a world of free thinkers. 
 
	Your Mission, should you decided to accept it, is to release the 
condemned man.
 
This message will self destruct.

    Would be better than what we have now.

Found this when I logged in this morning...I think it fits here...
    
Forwarding addresses removed


The real name of "the" Bill Gates is William Henry Gates III.  Nowadays he
is known as Bill Gates (III), where "III" means the order of third (3rd.)

By converting the letters of his current name to the ASCII-values and
adding his (III), you get the following:

B       66
I       73
L       76
L       76
G       71
A       65
T       84
E       69
S       83
+        3
 --------------
       666 !!

Some might ask, "Just how did Bill Gates get to be so powerful?"
Coincidence?  Or the beginning of mankind's ultimate and total
enslavement???

YOU decide!

But, before you decide, there's more!  Consider the following:

M  S  -  D  O  S     6  .  2  1
77+83+45+68+79+83+32+54+46+50+49 = 666

W  I  N  D  O  W  S  9  5
87+73+78+68+79+87+83+57+53+1 = 666

Coincidence? 

"If sex is so personal, why do we have to share it with someone?"-variously
ascribed.

 --
Putt's Law:
Technology is dominated by two types of people....
     Those who understand what they do not manage, and
     Those that manage what they do not understand.

Internet headers removed

    Nice p_name. :-)

 So, if I get a new system with Windows 95 on it, can I install DOS based
 stuff from my old pc on the new (and run said stuff)?


 Also, how do I transfer stuff like my compuserve software on the new?



 Jim

    .280
    
    You can install it, but it's anybody's guess whether it will run.  The
    DOS boxes in Winlose95 are notoriously cranky.

    
    
    if rumors are true things like flight simulator won't run.
    

    
    The alternative is to create an "MS-DOS mode" in the startup
    menu of a Windows 95 system. You can press F8 when DOS boots,
    and this will give you a menu. Choose item #6 (Command prompt
    only)... a better method, which doesn't require you to catch
    the startup at the right time with the F8 key, is to create
    a menu in CONFIG.SYS/AUTOEXEC.BAT (very simple to do, actually).
    That way, when you start your machine, you can choose MS-DOS
    or Windows 95.
    
    -b

    > if rumors are true things like flight simulator won't run.
    
    FS had problems on the early beta releases of Windows 95. Runs
    dandy on the retail version.
    
    However, I opt for a special boot environment for FS becuase it
    doesn't run well without a bunch of EMS (like 2 or 3 meg) and
    nothing else I run cares; and once memory is declared as EMS,
    it's only accessible through the DPMI interface, which is slow.
    For this reason, my startup menu has an option for "Flight
    Simulator".
    
    -b

    Actually, if you only have a few apps that won't work in 
    a Win95s DOS box, you can run the app itself in MS-DOS Mode
    by right-clicking on the DOS program's icon, selecting Properties, 
    selecting the Program tab and then clicking on the Advanced button.
    At that point you'll see a MS-DOS Mode check box.  Select that
    and then the DOS program will always run in DOS mode.
    
    /Greg

    >   At that point you'll see a MS-DOS Mode check box.  Select that
    >    and then the DOS program will always run in DOS mode.
    
    Except when is doesn't work.

    
    
>    if rumors are true things like flight simulator won't run.
    


 @#$@!@%! that's the one I wanted to run :-/

    Flight Sim 5.1 runs fine for me.  Watch, I'll start it up right now...
    
    (Dum de dum, fly fly fly, crash)
    
    Nope, works fine, took off from Meigs, crashed my plane right into the
    tower.  Never had a problem with it.

 great..now to wait for the right sale to come along...




 Jim

     |   > if rumors are true things like flight simulator won't run.
    
     |   FS had problems on the early beta releases of Windows 95. Runs
     |   dandy on the retail version.
    
    
     great.  now if you could tell me how to land a lear jet on
     the admiral nimitz...

    .290
    
    Aim it at the island, full flaps, high angle of attack, and pray lots.

 I landed the Lear on the carrier in FS4, but couldn't get it to stop.  I did
 have a shareware version of a DeHavilland Twin Otter which I landed on the
 carrier just fine.



 Jim

    How long is the carrier?  Even using the whole length of the carrier,
    rather than the normal landing area, I don't see how you can stop the
    Lear with only brakes and reverse thrust, before becoming an U-boat
    commander.
    
    Bob

 I dunno how long it is..I usually hit full throttle and get airborne right
 quick, though I do come perilously close to the surface of the ocean.



 JIm

    The only piece of software I have not been able to run on Windoze 95 is
    Wing Commander II.  Even in straight MS-DOS mode it won't run:-(
    
    Other than that everything works better than ever.
    
    --Geoff
    
    P.S. for a good article on Microsoft and where they want to be check
    out http://www.around.com/microsoft.html