Conference back40::soapbox

    >Izzit the responsibility of the person in front to give way to the
    >person in the rear?
    
     It's no more discourteous to tailgate than it is to block a lane. And
    the person being tailgated can almost always eliminate the problem by
    moving over; the person who wants to get by frequently cannot get by
    the lane blocker. People who are not willing to go at the prevailing
    speed should move over- it's a simple concept of courtesy which is why
    it is so far beyond so many people's ability to grasp.

    Re .7137:
    
    >  It's no more discourteous to tailgate than it is to block a lane.
    
    Being blocked is merely an issue of how fast you get where you are
    going.  Tailgating is dangerous and illegal.
    
    >  And the person being tailgated can almost always eliminate the
    > problem by moving over; the person who wants to get by frequently
    > cannot get by the lane blocker.
    
    "Can" is not "should".  A person obeying the speed limit at 55 has a
    perfect right to use the left lane to pass a car doing 50.  They are
    sharing the road, and there's no reason they should have to be stuck
    behind the car doing 50 while everybody else passes.  So when they take
    their turn to pass while obeying the speed limit, everybody else should
    wait their turn, just like people wait in line at grocery stores, movie
    theatres, and elsewhere.
    
    > People who are not willing to go at the prevailing speed should move
    > over . . .
    
    The person who wants to go faster than the speed limit wants to break
    the law and drive unsafely.
    
    There is no obligation to help any person break the law, and nobody
    should help another person impose a danger on others.
    
    > . . . it's a simple concept of courtesy which is why it is so far
    > beyond so many people's ability to grasp.
    
    It's a matter of law and safety, which is why it is so far beyond your
    ability to grasp.
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

    >    it's a simple concept of courtesy which is why
    >    it is so far beyond so many people's ability to grasp.
    
    Even more a wonder why people can't grasp that it can also be a matter
    of survival...

    .7137
    
    Remind me never to sit in your car while it's moving.

    
    Andy's Law... (not done on highways BTW...)
    
    If you're doing the speed limit, in the proper lane, and someone is
    tailgating you, slow down to 5 MPH below said speed limit. 
    
     It's amazing the veins you can see popping whilst observing the driver
    in your rear-view mirror!!

re .7138:

>    > People who are not willing to go at the prevailing speed should move
>    > over . . .
>    
>    The person who wants to go faster than the speed limit wants to break
>    the law and drive unsafely.
>    
>    There is no obligation to help any person break the law, and nobody
>    should help another person impose a danger on others.

...other than to obey another (rarely enforced) law... Keep Right Except
to Pass.

>>      <<< Note 12.7138 by RUSURE::EDP "Always mount a scratch monkey." >>>
>>So when they take
>>their turn to pass while obeying the speed limit, everybody else should
>>wait their turn, just like people wait in line at grocery stores, movie
>>theatres, and elsewhere.

	I don't remember the Doctah suggesting that they shouldn't.  I
	thought he was talking about cases where the lane blocker can
	move over and doesn't.  Doc?

    
    "Andy's Law", starring Sylvester Stallone as Andy Krawiecki.
    

    To the tailgator thingy....
    
    If the car in lane "A" is going 50, and the car in lane "B" is doing 
    55, then the car behind the car in lane "B" should either pass or 
    slow the "F" down, 
    
    if the guy behind me can't pass me, it would make sense that I can't
    get into lane "A" either....or most people would...
    
    I hate tailgators, if you want to go faster than the posted speed
    limit, be my guest, but don't ride my back if I'm in the passing lane
    already exceeding the speed limit, passing the other car the next lane.
    Last week some lady kept speeding up on my tail, backing off speeding
    up passing in one lane, falling behind then almost drove off the rode
    because she was more concerned with giving the guy the finger in the 
    other lane...wish she drove off the rode and dented her car.
    
    
    I'm babbling and in a crummy mood....
    

    .7138
    
    > The person who wants to go faster than the speed limit wants to break
    > the law and drive unsafely.
    
    Non sequitur.  I hve repeatedly cited not one, but *two*, independent
    studies commissioned by the USDOT, *both* of which found that on
    average, US highway speed limits are from 10 to 15 MPH too slow. 
    These too-low limits are in fact *causing* accidents, not reducing
    them.
    
    The studies found further that drivers who travel at 70 in a 55-MPH
    zone do not travel at 80 in a 65-MPH zone; they tend to drive at 70 in
    both cases.  This suggests that 70, as the limits were set before 1984,
    is *still* the proper speed for high-speed driving.
    
    There will always be some who drive at 80.  They're breaking the law. 
    So are those who drive at 56 in a 55 zone.  Do you think the courts are
    realy set up to handle the *tens of millions* of drivers who habitually
    break the law to a greater or lesser degree?  Do you think they should
    be, or do you think lawmakers should reconsider teh frivolity of their
    policies wrt speed limits?

    one important thing people have not mentioned. it's the speed LIMIT
    people! 50 is absolutely legal in a 55 zone.
    
    wanna fly? buy an airplane.

    Mr. Binder, too fast or too slow, it's still the law.
    
    the study does not support the fact that the speed limit causes
    accidents. you know that. it's people doing stupid things (generally)
    that causes the accidents.

    Driving is a skill. some are skilled at high speed driving others are
    not.

    .12
    
    You are wrong.  The speed limits cause accidents because they fail to
    account for the way real live people will really drive.  There are some
    drivers who will drive at 70 no matter what the limit is, and there are
    some who will obey the limit.  A 70-MPH driver is far less likely to
    get into a crunch with someone obeying a 65-MPH limit than with someone
    obeying a 55-MPH limit.  Make the law sensible, don't make it goody-
    goody.  HCI succeeede in passing a goody-goody gun law, and what
    tangible benefit has it had?  Zero.
    
    And before you start citing the relatively constant death rate over the
    past 25 years, you really should read the studies showing that this is
    due not to reduced speed limits but rather to the improved safety of
    the vehicles themselves.

re .12:

However, slow traffic encourages people to do stupid things, like
tailgate or pass unsafely.  So indirectly too slow limits can cause
accidents.

FWIW:

Yesterday's Globe had an article on speed limits out West.  They had
a chart showing Montana's highway death rate since '72.  When the 55
limit went into effect the death rate dropped.  When the limit went to
65 it dropped again.  The story basicly suggested these drops weren't
related to the speed limit but the generally increased safety of cars.

    The speed limit "laws" do indeed detract from safety on the highways,
    because constantly scanning for cops takes your attention away from
    traffic.
    
    It's true -- when I come down through Maine every morning in 65 mph
    limit, everyone is going maybe 65-70 or a little more.  But once I get
    on 495 in Mass, where it's 55, everyone is going 55-80.  I have to go a
    little faster on average to keep up with traffic in the left lane on
    495.
    
    The premise that raising the limits will cause people to drive faster
    is a crock.  The state's real interest is in raising fine revenue.
    
    There's a paperback book called, "How to Avoid Speeding Tickets" or
    something like that, written by an ex New York State cop, that is very
    interesting.  Says same thing -- main purpose is revenue, not safety,
    otherwise why do you think the cops all drive 70 and 80 themselves. 
    They certainly aren't any safer than most of us are, and many of them
    have years less experience than many of us do.
    
    Actually, I think maybe they so strictly enforce speed and DWI laws
    mainly because they have handy little gadgets with which to measure
    those things, so they can successfully and profitably prosecute.
    
    And if you don't believe it...
    
    Check out the highway death rate in France and other european countries
    where they have much higher or no speed limits, and much less draconian
    anti-alcohol laws.  France's highway death rate is actually lower than
    ours.  So somebody's lying...    What else is new?

    Highway death rates, as listed in the popular almanacs on newsstands,
    have dropped slowly ever since the 50s.  There are no significant drops
    in response to nationwide changes in things like speed limits or
    drinking age.
    
    In fact, one study I read about found that any change in a speed law
    will cause a temporary drop in accidents, whether the speed limit goes
    up or down.  Maybe just the fact that something has changed causes
    people to pay more attention for a while...
    
    

    .14 no, you're wrong. no law will account or control law breakers.
    
    nice spin... you dizzy yet?

    .18
    
    > no law will account or control law breakers.
    
    My point exactly.  Since it is impossible to make a law that will
    control lawbreakers, at least let's bring the law a little more into
    line with reality.  We'd cut down on accidents, and we'd cut down on
    the overloading in our courts.
    
    Montana, BTW, has a really excellent system of speeding fines.  If a
    statie pulls you over for speeding, the fine is $5.00.  Payable at the
    scene.  No ticket, no record, no hassle.  Have a nice day.

    
    <-----

    I could deal with that.  It's a financial irritation, as opposed to
    being seriously detrimental to your life style.  It slows ya down, but
    doesn't hurt ya too bad....hhhhhmmmmmm

    -1 -1 me too! where do i sign up!

    Re .6:
    
    > ...other than to obey another (rarely enforced) law... Keep Right
    > Except to Pass.
    
    Rarely enforced because it is also imaginary.  Even if some
    legislatures have enacted it, a court would rule it unconstitutional on
    grounds of stupidity after the defense lawyer pointed to the existence
    of a left exit on any highway in the state.
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

    Re .7:
    
    > 	I don't remember the Doctah suggesting that they shouldn't.  I
    >	thought he was talking about cases where the lane blocker can
    >	move over and doesn't.  Doc?
    
    But a person traveling 55 in the left lane _can_ move over during some
    parts of the pass, before they are too close to the vehicle being
    passed.  But they _should not_ because they have a right to continue
    using the road to pass, even if the idiot behind them doesn't like the
    speed with which they are passing or the safe distance they require
    ahead of the passed car before switching back to the right lane.
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

    To make it interesting, let's talk about highways with six or seven
    lanes.  There is no excuse for someone being in any of the 3 left lanes
    except to pass or to go the prevailing speed.
    
    I am tired of having to pass living fossils from the North who insisit
    in being in the leftmost lane by moving to the right lane.
    
    Also, note that there is also a minimum speed posted.  In this area the
    urban minimum speed is 50 MPH and the speed limit is 55 MPH.  Many
    people in non-rush-hour traffic going below 50 MPH. As previously
    stated this is very dangerous and even more so if it is in one of the
    leftmost lanes.
    

    .22
    
    You, of course, are blissfully unaware that such a law exists, and is
    in fact POSTED, in Florida.  Drive the Florida's Turnpike sometime. 
    Even you would be able to see the signs.  They're white, with black
    lettering, and posted along the guardrail to the left of the left
    lane.

    
    re: .8
    
    Naaaaaaahh.... He's too short!! :) :)
    

    .27
    
    The "he" in question being, of course, our friend Andrew.

>>       <<< Note 528.23 by RUSURE::EDP "Always mount a scratch monkey." >>>
    
>>    But a person traveling 55 in the left lane _can_ move over during some
>>    parts of the pass, before they are too close to the vehicle being
>>    passed.  But they _should not_ because they have a right to continue
>>    using the road to pass, even if the idiot behind them doesn't like the
>>    speed with which they are passing or the safe distance they require
>>    ahead of the passed car before switching back to the right lane.

	I don't remember the Doctah suggesting that anyone should
	tailgate someone who's in the process of passing and can't safely
	move over, either.

    Re .29:
    
    > 	I don't remember the Doctah suggesting that anyone should
    >	tailgate someone who's in the process of passing and can't safely
    >	move over, either.
    
    .23 refers to part of the pass during which a vehicle could move back
    to the right lane before they are too close.
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

    
    One of the things I've noticed about NH/MA drivers is that when driving
    in New Hampster, if you're in the left lane, and come up behind
    someone, they will usually move to the right and let you by.  If the
    person does not move to the right, 99.999999999999% of the time the car
    has a Mass plate on it.  Why is that?
    

    Re .24:
    
    > There is no excuse for someone being in any of the 3 left lanes
    > except to pass or to go the prevailing speed.
    
    a) There's a left exit.
    
    b) The highway splits and you want the left branch.
    
    c) The right three lanes are closed.
    
    d) The right three lanes are congested, and you're not taking the
       exits they are congested for.
    
    e) You want to travel faster than traffic in the right three lanes
       but less than the prevailing speed in the fourth lane.
    
    f) There's a dangerous driver or other situation in the right three
       lanes.
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

>>       <<< Note 528.23 by RUSURE::EDP "Always mount a scratch monkey." >>>
    
>>    ...But they _should not_ because they have a right to continue
>>    using the road to pass, even if the idiot behind them doesn't like the
>>    speed with which they are passing or the safe distance they require
>>    ahead of the passed car before switching back to the right lane.

	I don't remember the Doctah suggesting that anyone should tailgate
	someone who is in the process of passing.

    Re .26:
    
    You've reversed cause and effect.
    
    
    Re .25:
    
    I'm not saying that there is no section of road on which such a
    regulation exists, but there is no such general law for all multi-lane
    roads.  Keep in mind that not everything posted on a sign is law, and
    not even everything passed by a legislature is law.

    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

    >If the
    >person does not move to the right, 99.999999999999% of the time the car
    >has a Mass plate on it.  Why is that?

     There is a prevailing attitude in eastern massachusetts drivers which
     is basically agressive. Never let the other driver see you look. Take
     the right of way if you can. Everyone around you is out to get in your
     way so you'd better get in their way first.

     There is a reason their car insurance is so bloody high ...
   
     Doug.

    Re .33:
    
    > 	I don't remember the Doctah suggesting that anyone should tailgate
    >	someone who is in the process of passing.
    
    You should work on your memory.  The complaint in .1 targets cars that
    can move over and makes no exclusion for cars that are passing.  It
    says "People who are not willing to go at the prevailing speed should
    move over".  I've presented the situation of a driver who is passing,
    at a speed faster than the vehicle being passed but not at the
    prevailing speed, who can move over safely but should not.
                                                              
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

    The difference between rights and courtesy seems to be far too fine a
    point to bring to this discussion.
    
    You may have the "right" to be a lane blocker, but that doesn't make
    you any less of an <anal opening>.

>>    You should work on your memory.  The complaint in .1 targets cars that
>>    can move over and makes no exclusion for cars that are passing.
    
    If they are passing, then they are not able to move over.  Can't do both.
    The complaint in .1 target cars whose drivers are "lane blockers".
    Someone who is using the passing lane for its intended purpose is
    not blocking the lane.  

re .22:

No the law does exist and is law in Mass. and most other states.
It's posted on the Mass. Pike.  Also in New Jersey they do 
enforce the law, my cousin was a court clerk and she told me
violations of "keep right except to pass" was the second most
popular traffic ticket (speeding was #1)

Yes of course it has exceptions for left exits, forks, congestion
etc. but the law, barring exceptions in the immediate area is simply
keep right except to pass.

    Re:  All the above
    
    Well!!!  I always wondered who that was in the car behind me.

    
      I've noticed "moving violation" rules are different in different
     states.  In the PRM, you can pass on either side on a divided
     highway, and there is no law requiring signals when changing lanes.
    
      But I was stopped (warning) in Maryland for changing lanes without
     a signal.  Statie said out-of-staters should not violate the local
     custom there.
    
      bb

    > I am tired of having to pass living fossils from the North
    
    Whaaa!?  I didn't think anyone drover faster than Canadians...
    
    Or are you seeing lots of dogsleds out there on the hiways and biways?

    I drive to and from work at 80 mph every day. Have done so for 11�
    years. Never a ticket.
    
    Vroom vroom!

    
    <--- I must report you to our overlords now.
    

    And here I thought you conservative types were law-abiding.
    
    Silly me.  don't you think it is immoral not to obey the traffic
    regs with a joyous and non-rebellious heart?
    
    meg

    
    Conservatives don't believe in traffic laws.    ;^)
    

    In Canada, you have to be going over 120 kph in a 100 zone before they
    will even bother with you.

km/h, not kph.

NNTTM.

    no, it's klicks.

    
    re: .28
    
    >The "he" in question being, of course, our friend Andrew.
    
    I'll have you know, oh lanky one, that I'm taller than Sly!!(isn't
    everyone?? :) :)

    Yeah, Andy, but Sly *looks* tall.  You don't.

   .52  what a meanie.
	andy didn't strike me as being short.
 

    
    Daddy said "Son you're gonna drive me to drinkin'
    If you don't stop drivin' that Hot Rod Lincoln."
    

    
    Di, Andy struck you?!
    
    Oh dear.

    
    > I'll have you know, oh lanky one, that I'm taller than Sly!!(isn't
    > everyone?? :) :)

    HEY !  Watch it you mutant giant, or I'll have ta bust your knee caps !

    :-|

    .53
    
    If Andy struck you at all, you can be rich overnight.  Call my
    attorneys, Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe.

  .58  thank you, clever lad.  i was about to point that out myself.

       <<< Note 528.2 by RUSURE::EDP "Always mount a scratch monkey." >>>

>    The person who wants to go faster than the speed limit wants to break
>    the law and drive unsafely.
    
    	Probably by the time I read through the rest of the existing
    	replies this will have been addressed, but I'll add my voice
    	to those saying that "faster than the speed limit" does not
    	necessarily translate to "unsafely".
    
>    There is no obligation to help any person break the law, and nobody
>    should help another person impose a danger on others.
    
    	Deliberately remaining in the way of a faster driver when 
    	common courtesy provides a simple alternative also imposes
    	a danger.  Deliberately angering the driver behind you can
    	end up being akin to angering a man pointing a gun at your
    	back.  You risk your own safety, and you risk that of the
    	others he will later encounter up ahead once he finally 
    	manages to get by you.
    
    	I just don't see this "right" being so worthwhile that one
    	should die defending it.

    
    Thank you Di, for coming to my defense, however I strike you! :)
    
    Dan??? get a clue!!! (or at least go back and read for
    comprehension!!!! :) :) :)
    

    
    eeerrrr Andy, you're not taller than Sly?
    

    
    
    Errrr... Dan? Did I not mention back there that almost everyone in this
    world (except for kids maybe) Was???
    

    
    Was???   Don Was?
    

    <--- He a ball player or sumtin?

    
    > Errrr... Dan? Did I not mention back there that almost everyone in this
    > world (except for kids maybe) Was???
    
    You really are pushing it you know Andy..... NOT EVERY ONE IS TALLER
    THAN SLY.... <mumble><grumble>....mutant giant....<mumble><grumble>
    

    
    
    You a kid Dan???
    
    
    :) :)
    

    
    BTW...
    
    re: mutant giant
    
    See Phil Hays...
    
    :)
    

    
    How tall is Sylvester Stallone?

    
    35mm.
    

    
    
    Let's just say you wouldn't have to strain your neck too too much deb
    dear...
    

    
    No way.  He's got to be tall.  Don't burst my little fantasy bubble
    8^).
    

    Re .39:
    
    > If they are passing, then they are not able to move over.
    
    Seeing as I've already describe a situation to the contary, stating
    otherwise without explaining how the situation doesn't apply has no
    merit.
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

    Re .40;
    
    > Yes of course it has exceptions for left exits, forks, congestion
    > etc. but the law, barring exceptions in the immediate area . . .
    
    Which was my point.
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

    
    Andy... let me put it this way, I don't get carded anymore :-(....
    and I can look Ms Deb right in the eye (without tilting my head up too
    much)
    
    
    
    Although it is very difficult for me to drag my eyes up there
    ;->
    

    Re .61:
    
    > 	Deliberately remaining in the way of a faster driver when 
    >	common courtesy provides a simple alternative also imposes
    >	a danger.
    
    A motor vehicle law-breaker is owed no more courtesy than a thief.
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

re:     <<< Note 528.76 by DEVLPR::DKILLORAN "It ain't easy, bein' sleezy!" >>>

You should try harder. She has very nice eyes.

    .77
    
    > A motor vehicle law-breaker is owed no more courtesy than a thief.
    
    About the same as those afflicted with rectal-cranial inversion
    syndrome, in my book.

    
    For goodness sakes, Dan, how tall ARE you?
    
    Thank you, Chanceux_Jacques 8^).
    
    

    
    
    re: .78
    
    And teeth, Jack!! Don't forget the teeth!!
    
    :)
    
    
    
    Sorry Dan... didn't mean to hit a sore spot...
    

    There's only one rule on the highway that makes any sense:
    
    	Stay alive, and try to help others to do the same.
    
    Any other rules or laws are counterproductive and dangerous.

    Re .79:
    
    Same thing.
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

       
>>    Seeing as I've already describe a situation to the contary, stating
>>    otherwise without explaining how the situation doesn't apply has no
>>    merit.

	Once you move over, you're no longer passing people in the lane
	you move into.  You can pass again, of course, but you're not 
	in the act of passing.  The Doctah did not suggest that anyone
	tailgate someone who is in the act of passing.  If you want to infer
	that that's what he meant (and clearly you do), well I guess that's
	your prerogative.  I prefer not to read anything into what he 
	wrote.

    
    > For goodness sakes, Dan, how tall ARE you?
    
    {ahem} well I'd be glad to show you some time, but this being a family
    notes file and all that....aaahhh wait a minute.....
    
    Never mind!
    
    By the way, Ms Deb has beautiful eyes, teeth, legs,....eeerrr.... I
    think I'll stop here...
    

re .77:

OK so at least we agree a left lane bandit is not owed courtesy.

    
>>    By the way, Ms Deb has beautiful eyes, teeth, legs,....eeerrr.... I
>>    think I'll stop here...

    good.  it's all true, but it's truly sickening when you repeat it
    so many times.
    

    
    
    TTWA...
    
    Is Dan as tall as a Hoover? A Kirby???
    
    :)
    

    
    well Di, I think of Dan like the Energizer bunny, he keeps going and
    going.. etc..

    
    <-----------

    ONLY if the ladies appreciate it....
    
    I don't care if yous guy don't like it, it's for ladies only...
    

Judging from his large hoovering capacity, I think he must be as tall as
one of those big shop-vacs.

    
    re: .90
    
    >I don't care if yous guy don't like it, it's for ladies only...
    
    It's not that we don't like it.. it's... well... You know how when you
    use the vacuum cleaner at home? How good (peaceful) it sounds when you
    shut it off??
    
    :) :)
    

    Perhaps Kirby-san is stressed out over the positioning of the dirt bag?

    
    .91:
    
    Wet/Dry capacity?
    

    From the responses in this string it is apparent that there are far too
    many folks holding licenses to drive that do not deserve them.  To you
    folks that will pull out into faster traffic regardless of the speed
    and pass at a slower speed than the prevailing flow, a pox on you and
    yours.  One can only hope you will not be in a position to pass on this 
    reckless behavior to new drivers.  "Oh, but it's my right to pass a
    slower vehicle at 55 if they are going 50 blah, blah, blah."  Horse 
    hockey.  It is unsafe, it causes others to react to your stupidity when
    you place yourself in harms way.  If you are going to pass, do so
    quickly and with purposefully.  If that means speeding up to not
    impede others, so be it.  If you are not comfy with this, don't pass.  
    
    It never ceases to amaze me at the reckless manner in which folks will
    go out of their way to disrupt the flow of traffic.  The morons that
    let left turners go at a light or those that stop in the middle of the 
    road to let people out of parking lots etc.  The only time it is 
    approproiate to impede the flow of traffic is when required by traffic 
    signals, signs, or road hazards and construcion.  Go on the greens,
    stop on the reds.  
    
    People in here rant and rave about rights but I would venture to bet
    many will gladly give up their right of way when driving.  
    
    And another thing, use your friggin' signals fer chrissake and turn
    thosed <r.o.> fog lights off while you are at it you poser you, same
    with the high beams you thimble headed gherkin and use the damn ash
    tray instead of flicking your cinders on the road.  Is the world your
    own personal garbage can for cryin' out loud!?!?!?!?!?  
    
    There I feel slightly better now.  
    
    Brian

       <<< Note 528.77 by RUSURE::EDP "Always mount a scratch monkey." >>>

>    > 	Deliberately remaining in the way of a faster driver when 
>    >	common courtesy provides a simple alternative also imposes
>    >	a danger.
>    
>    A motor vehicle law-breaker is owed no more courtesy than a thief.
    
    	I would expect that if that thief were armed with a dangerous
    	weapon you would have the common sense not to get into his
    	way.
    
    	Or is there some "right" in the thief scenario that you would
    	also consider worth dying for...

    
    I don't drive.
    
    Just thought I'd say.
    

    
    The one VERY important thing about roolz of the road (right or wrong),
    is that they allow you to predict, within reason, what the other people
    around you are going to do at any given moment and in any given
    situation.  And when travelling at 55-65 mph, and with traffic going
    the same speed in the opposite direction, that can be extremely useful.
    

    
    One thing that aggravates me is that on some highways such as I290
    trucks are not supposed to travel in the left lane but constantly do at
    a high rate of speed.

    and that snarfs the heck out of me!

    This AM the following behaviors were observed.  
    
    Grey Blazer, 2 dr, passes industrial size dump truck at an approx. 5 mph 
    difference on right and immediately moves over to the left lane, and parks 
    there.  No one ahead in either lane.  You never know, he may have passed 
    someone eventually.  I and at least fifteen other cars passed him on
    the right as he was not budging, no sir, no way, unh uh. 
    
    POS Mercury Marquis decided to pass the person he has been tailgating
    for about 3 miles just as I am about to overtake.  No blinker and
    apparently in no hurry to get the deed over with.  At least he was
    consistent as he then moved back over without the blinker and about
    two feet in front of the car he just passed.  
    
    I am sure they are good decent people though.  
    
    

    Just one of those little things that helps take the 
    boredom out of Rt. 128

    
    Has anyone ever noticed that the more expensive the car, the less
    likely that they come equipped with turn signals?
    
    My real pet peeve is the cigarette smokers that toss their lit
    cigarettes out the window of a moving car.  I had one come into my car
    last summer through the sun roof.  Thank goodness no one was hurt and
    that we were able to put it out in my *clean* ashtray (I don't smoke)
    and then disposed of it later properly.

    >Has anyone ever noticed that the more expensive the car, the less
    >likely that they come equipped with turn signals?
    
     I find a tighter correlation with license plate. MA = rarely uses
    signals. NH = frequently uses signals. Same with getting out of the way
    in the left lane. MA cars seem to have this MINE concept, like "this
    lane is MINE."

    Re .84:
    
    > Once you move over, you're no longer passing people in the lane
    > you move into.
    
    Who cares about after you move over?  The situation I presented was
    where a car is in the left lane AND is passing AND still has sufficient
    room to move over safely before catching up to the car being passed.
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

    This lane is my lane,
    This lane's not your lane,
    From my spacious driveway,
    To the four lane highway,
    From the country blacktop
    to the mall's parking lot,
    This lane was made for me, NOT you.
    
    (Woodie Stationwagon.)
    

    
    <-----------
    
    <clap>,<clap>,<clap>,<clap>
    
    BRAVO !
    

    <----- BWHAHAHAHAH!
    
    Native New English drivers are all cut from the same moth eaten bolt of 
    cloth.  New Hampsters have a tendancy to drive slower but they possess 
    the same clueless habits of their equally clueless neighbors to the south.  
    Vermonters on the other hand are more likely to be found in their 
    correct lanes on the 4 lanes inside their own state lines.  They drive
    even slower than New Hampsters though everywhere else. 
    
    

    >>The situation I presented was
    >>where a car is in the left lane AND is passing AND still has sufficient
    >>room to move over safely before catching up to the car being passed.

	That car is arguably not passing.  

	But anyways, where did the Doctah condone, in .1, tailgating someone
	who's in the act of passing?

    Here's one that happened to me this morning, twice:
    
    I'm on a two-lane freeway, approaching an entrance ramp where
    vehicles are entering the freeway.  And they're entering the
    freeway very slowly, as usual, so as I approached the ramp,
    I went over into the left lane.
    
    In the string of cars entering the freeway, one of the cars
    just entering decides he doesn't like how slowly the car or
    truck in front of him is entering, so as soon as he clears
    the ramp, he cuts over into the left lane to pass the slower
    guy in front.
    
    Unfortunately, the "speed demon" is only going about 40 MPH
    himself, because he's not up to freeway speed yet.  But he
    doesn't care that I'm barrelling down on him at, er, 55  :-).
    He's in there, and of course it's his "right" to be there,
    forcing all of the left lane traffic to slam on their brakes
    to avoid an accident.
    
    And he'll take his sweet time getting up to freeway speed, too,
    oh yes.  And when he finally does, he'll end up going 75-80 and
    pulling away from the mess he's created behind him.  He looks
    in the mirror with satisfaction.
    
    Twice, just this morning... once by each gender.  Usually it happens
    once a day.
    
    Chris

    Outrageous. If you decide you can't STAND remaining behind someone who
    holds the misconception that getting onti a freeway is best
    accomplished through judicious use of the brake pedal, it is incumbent
    upon you to hit the left lane in such a manner as to obviate the need
    of current left lane denizens to alter their driving whatsoever. This,
    of course, requires the cubes or a turbo if traffic is not already
    dead...

>            <<< Note 528.111 by WAHOO::LEVESQUE "the heat is on" >>>
>    of course, requires the cubes or a turbo if traffic is not already

How about 500+ cubic inches plus a turbo. THAT combo works for me :-}

(anybody know what 7.3 liters actually equates to???)

Amos

    .112
    
    About 442 cubes.

    re: .111
    
    Right... and the funny thing was that the woman who did it
    this morning had a sports car that could probably do 0-60
    in about 3 seconds, but she was either oblivious or was trying
    to yank our left-lane chains on purpose.
    
    This isn't the first time I've seen this either... why do 
    people go out and buy these high-performance cars, and then
    drive like old fogies?
    
    Chris

>    This isn't the first time I've seen this either... why do 
>    people go out and buy these high-performance cars, and then
>    drive like old fogies?

By the time they afford them, they _are_ old fogies.  Right, Dr. Dan?

>    .112
    
>    About 442 cubes.

SHUCKS! is that all? Phooeey! I thought I had a real engine :-}



Thank you Dick.

    
    Amos, what's that 442 in?  You gots a turbo on it toooo???
    
    Way cool!
    

    You ever seen me drive, WizeGuy???
    
    Dan$Ticketed... :-)
    

    
    > Dan$Ticketed... :-)
    
    Hey Dan, try a Radar detector, it cuts down on those dam things a whole
    lot.
    

    
    to all those who think the left lane is for _travel_: move the
    hell over idjit, it's for passing....

    and to all those who tailgate even on single-lane roads when the
    person in front of you can't go anywhere because there's
    92,000 cars in front of him... you're what God invented sun-roofs
    and big wads of phlegm for... :-) :-)

    -b

    
>    Amos, what's that 442 in?  You gots a turbo on it toooo???
 
Now what would a gun-totin, NRA member, riech-winger be driving?



A pick-em-up of course!

   
>    Way cool!
    
Thank you.



Of course it is a deisel, but it scoots :-}

    I've always thought of a "turbo-deisel" an oxymoron or sorts.  8^)

    
    Not to mention a misspelling.

    .122
    
    No problem with diesels using high-pressure air at the intake...

Dunno what this is all about, but I just thought I'd pop in and say "hi"
and "hugs".  Oh, and I'm glad no bastard got in my way when I was wafting
along the A414 at 135MPH the other day, and that there were no jam
sandwiches around (or are they called `battenburgs' now?)

Chris.

    
    So there I was driving to the Regency last night on 495 North.  I was in
    the right lane - I keep right, except to pass - going about 65.  Nobody
    else in the lane as far as the eye could see.  People don't like the
    right lane, so I get it all to myself.
    
    This black car comes zooming up on my left in the middle lane at warp
    speed and is immediately stymied from going any further by the guy in 
    the middle lane just ahead of me who is going about 60.  The guy in the 
    black car is obviously not happy with this situation and wants to cut me 
    off but I'm going faster than he is.
    
    I think to myself, "What an idiot!  I bet Dan Killoran drives like this." 
    8^).  [Hi Dan 8^)]
    
    So I continue on to the Regency and park.  What do you know, the black
    car parks directly beside me.
    
    Guess who was driving it 8^))))))))))))))))))))))))))).

    
    
    Dan!  :*)
    

	Looks like Dan went against his own parameters. He stated last night if
one was driving a sheeeeeetbocs, they could drive recklessly and it is ok. But
not in a nice car...... hmmmm...... this troubles me....

    
    Ms. Deb, I think you're taking some liberties in your description of my
    driving style ! ! ! !

    > The guy in the 
    > black car is obviously not happy with this situation and wants to cut me 
    > off but I'm going faster than he is.

    I would NEVER cut off a lovely lady such as your self.... now a homely
    git like Glen is another matter altogether!  :-))))

    > "What an idiot!  I bet Dan Killoran drives like this." 

    You wound me..... :-((((  I'm DEEEEPLY hurt by such a statement.

    OBTW - I saw you as I went past, so I figured I should hassle you a
    little bit.  I would have been VERY embarrassed if it had been some
    other woman who look almost as attractive as you.... naaahhh that couldn't
    happen :-)

    shameless.

    agreed.

    re: .127
    
    Quick.... very quick....
    

    
    Smooches, Dan 8^).
    
    

    
    > Smooches, Dan 8^).

    Promises, promises.... all you do is lead me on... :-|

    No fool, that Mz_Debra.

    > all you do is lead me on...
      
    Pssst. Mz Deb... I know where there's a lovely cliff... :-)
    
    -b

I'd hate to drive my car around in the 'States, I'd have a bugger of a time
trying to lean out of the passenger window to stick my fingers up at all the
other drivers...

Chris.

    
    
    <-------
    
    No problem... they'd just shoot you anyway....
    

    Chris, one of the first things you learn over here is that "Dodge Ram"
    is an abbreviation for "Dodge, or I'll Ram you".

    Chris,
    
    Can't you flip the bird with your left hand, I do it all the time :-}
    
    

	am i, like, the only person left in the galaxy who's never
	given anyone the finger?  it's such an unimaginable gesture
	to me.  maybe i'm seriously ill.  yes, i'll bet that's it.

> it's such an unimaginable gesture to me

<scratches head> <ponders>

>><scratches head> <ponders>

	oh, sorry.  i didn't word that well.  it's unimaginable
	to me to execute the gesture.  crude to the max.  yes,
	i'm probably quite ill.

    
    Di....
    
    Next time someone needs to have "an unimaginable gesture" thrown at
    them, just ball your hand into a fist with just the pinkie pointing up. 
    
    They'll ask "What does that mean?"...
    
    You can tell them..."You don't deserve my very best!"
    

   .145  ;>  thanks, kiddo.

    
    "ill", Di?  Deranged, maybe.  But not ill.
    
    :^)
    

    She has to be deranged, she puts up with us.

I prefer the two fingered salute... "**** off" seems more appropriate
than "up yours" when driving...

Chris.

I suspect that Queen Elizabeth has never given anyone the finger.
Even Lyndon LaRouche.

    .150
    
    > I prefer the two fingered salute... "**** off" ...
    
    Oh, so that's what Churchill was doing in all those WWII photos.

    
    So, we're heading north on 495. Diane is driving. We're late
    for a meeting, and she's tearing along... I won't say how
    fast we were going, but it's, well, fast. We're in the left-
    most lane.

    We get to the route 4 exit (to Chemsfid) and we hit a snag
    in the left lane. No problem, we back off a bit; we'll
    wait it out. There's a clump of cars in both lanes to
    our right, we're not going anywhere.

    A van comes up behind us, and is tailgating horribly. When
    there is a one car-length break between us and the traffic
    in the middle lane, he pulls in, so we back off. No problem.
    But, then he pulls one of these "I'm going to show you
    a lesson" things and intentionally, cuts into the lane,
    without a signal, and before he has even fully passed
    us. We had to slam on the breaks to avoid hitting him.

    OK. No problem. Got his license plate, and a description,
    got off at the next exit, and called the Massachusetts
    State Police. I left my name and number.

    They called me back this morning, the New Hampshire state
    Police had apprehended him on route 93 and arrested him.
    The Massachusetts SP wanted to know if we were willing
    to press charges for driving to endanger, and we said
    yes. I'd say he's pretty much effed. He was driving a
    company vehicle too. I suspect they will not be pleased
    with this guy.

    -b

    Be most wary of company vans. Especially Post Office van drivers. They
    don`t give a monkey`s.
    
    
    

    Well done b.

>          <<< Note 528.154 by MPGS::MARKEY "Mercenary geeks rool!" >>>
>    So, we're heading north on 495. Diane is driving. We're late


Yah, it's amazing how seriously cops take citizen complaints.  A few years
back I and many others were passed by some dizzy dame, on a
single-lane-each-direction road, double yellow, the whole bit. Unbelievably
dangerous maneuvers... The local PD was right on my drive home. I gave them
the plate number, and on the scanner I heard the dispatcher send someone over
to her residence about 15 minutes later.

    
    	Yes, good job.
    
    	What did he expect to gain by doing that?  A car length, perhaps?
    	And where does that leave him?  One car length ahead of where he
    	was before and still stuck in traffic.
    
    
    	I had this bozo try to cut right in front of me in the Westboro
    	rotary last night.  I was in the rotary, just coming from Lyman
    	Street and headed to the back road to Upton, and he decides that
    	he's going to cut right in front of me instead of YIELDING like
    	the sign says he must.  Well, he tried.  I hit my brakes to slow
    	me down just enough so that I could stop if he didn't, but I
    	didn't stop and zipped right around him instead.  And we're not
    	talking rush-hour traffic here either, since it was after 8PM.
    
    	I feel bad that he was 3.5 seconds later in getting to where he
    	was going, but I guess it's too late to fret now.
    

    
    Can the person reported to the police find out who reported em?

    
    	If it goes to court, I believe the accuser [who pressed the
    	charges] has to show up also.
    
    	But not before that, no.
    

    
    I asked, and yes, if I press charges I must agree to appear
    in court (if the DA takes the case), in which case I will
    be asked to make a sworn deposition beforehand that will
    include taking my name and address.

    This, however, does not particularly bother me, for reasons
    which I will leave to your imagination.

    -b

>            <<< Note 528.159 by HANNAH::MODICA "Journeyman Noter" >>>
>    Can the person reported to the police find out who reported em?

Well, in my case, they never even asked who I was. They just asked if I
wanted the slip of paper with the plate number back, I said, "no, you can
keep it", and they said "thanks for the report, have a nice day".

    
    >This, however, does not particularly bother me, for reasons
    >which I will leave to your imagination.
    
    	Because you're a gun-nut and you'll just shoot the guy if
    	he gets too close?
    
    	8^)
    

    The case will probably not get to the point of needing you to go to
    court.  If nothing else, maybe he will get a lesson out of it.  

    
    	Like, "Hmmm, there's much less traffic in the median ... maybe
    	I'll try that next time"?
    

	Brian M., I hope if yer gonna shoot the guy if he bothers you, that you
have taken one of Amos' gun self defense classes! :-)

    
    Shooting anyone is not in my current plans. Sorry to disappoint
    y'all. :-)

    -b

 A woman with whom I work was heading home, north on 495 last night, and
 encountered a traffic jam of Biblical proportions (highway was closed due
 to an accident earlier in the day).  As she sat, she looked out her window
 and off of the breakdown lane a couple guys were engaged in fistcuffs, 
 apparantly over a traffic related disagreement.




 Jim

  .168  well i certainly hope she jumped out of her car and tried to
        break it up.  there's far too much indifference in the world
	these days, dontcha know.

    
    Well, if she had a firearm she could have just shot them.
    
    -b

    I thought this only applied to altercations on bridges?

    Who was the person who said, "if you don`t like my driving stay off the
    sidewalk"?

	I'm trying to picture a traffic jam of Biblical proportions.... people
parked reading Bibles? No wait.... there were people fighting.... ahhhhh.....
they were people from the box arguing over Bible interpretations!!! I swear it
was not me and Joe! :-)


Glen

re: -b

I wonder if perhaps your idjit was apprehended in NH for a different
infraction, rather than your complaint. It was my understanding that
cops are usually reticent to apprehend and ticket people for violations
that they haven't personally observed, as they can't provide sufficient
personal testimony to bear witness against them in court, and often have
no way of knowing whether the witness will be willing to do so.

    If I`m responding to a fire and my blue is on and people refuse to give
    way I can write there plate numbers down and the would be charged with
    impeding an emergency vehicle. Most folks are real good about and some
    aren`t. I haven`t had any problems yet.

    
    Apparently, it was the nature of what he did and that it
    was done intentionally. According to the trooper, that
    put it outside of the normal realm of a traffic stop (they
    would have pulled him over and let him cool his heels
    for a while; at least that's what I was told). But because
    he basically did something with the intent of causing
    an accident unless we took specific measures to avoid
    him, he, in essence, assaulted us.

    I have no doubt that he did more than that and got nabbed
    for it. The DA's office hasn't called yet, so I have
    no further information.

    -b

    
    BTW - the guy's a nude hampsterite and the van is registered
    in N.H. I still don't know his name or the company that
    owns the van.
    
    -b

    
    	Traffic jam of Bibical proportions?
    
    	How about waiting for a line of animals, parading 2-by-2, to cross
    	a major highway?
    

>    BTW - the guy's a nude hampsterite and the van is registered
>    in N.H. I still don't know his name or the company that owns the van.


Not to worry, then! We've just recently been discussing, in NEW_HAMPHSHIRE,
the fact that anyone can buy the info at a bargain rate!

    A driver gestured to me to let me out of a turning,and on me turning
    into the road,he then bizarrely seemed to do his best to go into the
    back of my car. Only by accelerating hard then hitting the breaks to
    avoid going into the back of another car did I avoid a crash.
    
    why,oh why,oh why?! And who would the insurance company believe? Me
    saying he gestured to let me in,or him saying I dangerously pulled out
    in front of him?
    
    

    A guy ran through a red light and totalled my car (no injuries, and 
    it didn't take much to total *that* car).  I had witnesses aplenty. 
    After the cops were finished interviewing everyone, I asked them if
    they were going to charge the driver with anything, and they said no. 
    
    I asked why, and they said because they weren't there to witness the
    incident, so they didn't really know what happened.
    
    That was in Maine last year.
    
    In Maryland 30 years ago some guy sideswiped my car when he tried to
    change lanes right into the side of my car.  I followed him and got his
    plate number.  At the next light I was behind him -- he got out to look
    at his car and never even glanced at mine.  So I went to the police
    station to complain, and they gave me his name and address (I had his
    plate number), and said I could call him myself.  I asked them if they
    could help, and they said no, they weren't there so they couldn't know
    what actually happened.
    
    I wonder if things have changed, or if they just tell you what you want
    to hear when you complain.

    
    Obviously the last two replies are referring to drivers in the 50% of 
    the population that ISN'T expected to drive carefully since the other 
    50% of the population IS expected to do so.
    
    
    

    Lane changing with impunity, must have been a MAN!

    
    similar thing happened to me about 6 years ago.  i was driving down a
    side street in my tank, er, i mean car with my friends and we were
    approaching an intersecting street from the right.  the woman went
    right thru her stop sign, turned left onto the road i was on, and was
    in my lane.  i swerved to miss her, she swerved, too.  we hit.  she
    thru her car in reverse to disconnect us and park on the side of  the
    road.  i left my car where it was (i had always been taught not to move
    your car from the scene until told to do so).  no one was hurt, but i
    was pretty pissed.  cops eventually showed up and all 5 of us gave them
    the same story.  she ran her stop sign and then was on the wrong side
    of the road.  i asked if they were going to charge her with
    *something*, but the cop said no, they were not there to see it.  i
    don't even think they checked her bac...not saying she was drunk, but
    it was a good possibility, and i don't think it would have been out of
    the question...but they were not there to see it...
    
    i have been told, tho, if you see a 'bad' driver, you can report it,
    and if there are enough reports against the driver, something can be
    done...maybe that was the case...
    
    

    I have never had these kinds of problems after an accident. I have been
    involved in one and my wife in one. Both times the police made an
    assessment of fault and issued a ticket (to the other person in both
    instances :).  FWIW, both accidents were in Colorado.

    
    Some of you are not listening! :-)

    Let me repeat, that what made the situation I described
    different was that the person deliberately tried to
    cause a collision. Deliberately. When you deliberately
    hit something, it's not an "accident" is it? So what
    is it called when you deliberately hit someone with
    an automobile? It's called "assault". Are you following
    me now? Good. Even though he did not hit us, he attempted
    to hit us. Thus he was "driving so as to endanger"
    which was the complaint sworn against him.

    Police don't have (much) interest in accidents; they
    have slightly more interest in assault.

    -b

    
    	I consider "running a red light" a very good candidate for "driv-
    	ing to endanger".  Wouldn't you?  Maybe if the fine for running a
    	red light were similar to MA's system for speeding fines, we'd see
    	more "concern" on the part of the police.  Maybe $10 for every foot
    	they run the stop sign/light by before either being stopped by the
    	police or hitting something?
    
    	That way the cop can follow him for 1/2 mile before stopping him/
    	her and then the fine would be somewhere around $26K.  Then maybe
    	this person would think twice about doing it again, or maybe even
    	start paying attention to the road when [s]he is driving.
    

    We're listening, it's just that there must be some legal considerations
    involved in charging someone with something.  If anyone can pick up the
    phone and tell the cops the driver of plate xxxxxx did something wrong,
    and get that person arrested, fined, ticketed, or whatever, then people
    would do that all the time just to get people's goats.
    
    I was actually kind of glad to see it is not so easy to have legal
    action taken against you by the state.  Kind of refreshing.

    
    and i was just relaying a story....
    
    

I drove back through London last night.  Idiot drivers, too many vehicles,
forests of red-phased traffic lights, non-existant signposting, potholes,
smelly denizens eyeing up the car for something to nick every time I stopped,
police riot vans trying to bludgeon their way through stationary traffic,
senile old buggers slowing everybody down, drunkards in staggering in the
road, bus drivers causing obstructions by not using the stopping spaces,
morons with carphones not thinking about driving, Bedford vans with a
constant stream of crisp packets, drinks cans and pages of The Sun streaming
out of the windows courtesy of the hairy-arsed brickies who consider the
streets to be their litterbin, frizzy haired floozies driving white XR3is
setting fire to themselves by attempting to smoke and drive at the same
time, greasy smells emanating from nauseaus kebab emporiums mingling with
the diesel fumes, psychotic lorry drivers, kamikaze pedestrians, people
parking in clearways, worn out clutch plate, sore left ankle and no
petrol.

Gawd, how I hate London.

Chris.

    
    Sounds just like, well... everywhere else.
    
    -b

I suppose it is, only worse, and you get the whole assortment of driving
pleasures all at once...

Chris.

        Nothing's changed, Chris - I did that for four years working
        on-site FS in central London sites '81 through '85 while living
        in Tidmarsh (Weatherfox Cottage) near Pangbourne, near Readinge
        (no "sp").  Ah, the joys of the M4, 'ammersmiff flyover, the West
        End, Piccadildo and then all points between Marylebone Rd and
        Smithfield market. Was just the same.
        
        Andy
        

    Aye up.
    
    I come from Pangbourne,and to this day still drink in the Copper Inn on
    a Sunday evening. 
    
    Great place,isn`t it?
    
    
    
    
    

        Copper Inn was a good bar - I used to head for the George or the
        Greyhound more often than not. One thing about Pangbourne is
        plenty of pubs! (Was it the Swan over by the lock?) Been a
        while...    
        
        Andy
        
    
    
    

    uh,huh.
    
    The George I go to occaisonally. The Greyhound - is that the one in
    Tidmarsh,or the one in Witchurch? 
    
    For true Pangbourneian status,you have to drink in the Working Men`s
    Club,of which membership is scarce. 
    
    

>    The George I go to occaisonally. The Greyhound - is that the one in
>    Tidmarsh,or the one in Witchurch? 
        
        Yes. :^) I lived in Whitchurch across the toll bridge for a time
        and my then wife's kids used to frequent the George or the
        (Whitchurch) Greyhound. When we eventually bought the cottage in
        Tidmarsh the (Tidmarsh) Greyhound was just a short stagger away.
        
            

    That toll bridge is a right cheek. It`s now 8 pence for crossing it.
    
    

    YOU BLOODY WHAT !!! That's extortion. 

    They cut you up... just flick 'em the snarf.

    8 pence is indeed outrageous.
    
    However,the bridge is protected by a Law going back er,a few hundred
    years or so. Something to do with King Henry VIII being chummy with
    the land owner back then. Or something like that.
    
    Us Pangbourneians have being paying ever since. It`s a national
    disgrace etc,etc.
    

    It used to be tuppence when I lived in Shinfield.  I always thought of
    it as a kind of enforced opportunity to stop & take in the bucolic
    English scenery.

        I think it was tuppence when I lived there too. At least when I
        ambled underneath the bridge in my old boat on my way to a Sunday
        pub lunch at the Beetle and Wedge I didn't have to pay - the old
        biddy toll-taker used to mutter darkly that she should be able to
        extort tolls from boats too. :*)
        

You went *under* the bridge?!  What about the troll????
Yer a brave mon &dy!


\C

8p!?!     I don't get charged anything when I cross using my m'cycle.

DG

        Ahh no worries, Chele - the troll had emigrated to Oz ages ago ;*)

        

I guess that means the Billy goats Gruff must be taking it easy then...


\C        

    
    you people drive like maniacs. I normally go 65-70 on expressways, and
    that's in the right hand lane. you travel 80-85 in Illinios, and you're
    most likely going to have a $85-100 ticket.

 I usually do just change lanes and let them pass.  Of course I have to
 engage the parachute on the back of my car so I can slow down enough not
 to slam into the rear of the car in front of me in the other lane.

    
    now I see why your insurance rates are so dang high.

 At least I can spell the name of the state in which I live

Two reasons why Mass insurance rates are so high:

1) Insurance regulation
2) Massachusetts drivers

Discuss among yourselves.

    
    typo, jimbob, typo.

    re:>you people drive like maniacs.
    
    If your car can safley do 90, and you are in a 3 car convoy, all three
    cars doing 90+ then they is nothing wrong with the speed. As long as
    you slow down in the traffic, your OK. But when it comes to moterway
    driving. As far as I am concerend if you are in the fast lane, and the
    slow lan in empty then you should have pulled over long time ago. What
    makes me real angry is when drivers hog the fast lane only doing 70.
    When I approach them from behind, and they do not move over, they are
    forcing me to break the law and take them on the wrong side.
    
    I have no problems pulling over for some who is going faster than I am
    if I am doing the speed limit. If I am already doing 90, and they try
    to force me over by flashing there lights, I just do the ol fog lamp,
    works all the time. They soon get the message.
    
    Steven

    sometimes you can't get out of the way. you can be doing 85 in the
    passing lane and the right lane is a gauntlet of traffic doing 65 and
    the guy behind you wants to do 90. That's the time when I think you can
    bury your speedometer, your excuse can be that you were just trying to
    get out of the way.

    What I noticed in my recent trip to the US is that doing 80 is very
    common now. How things have changed in 20 years.

    
    	It doesn't matter how fast you're going ... if someone comes up
    	behind you and wants to pass, and you have room to move over,
    	just do it.  If you're already speeding, that's still no reason
    	to play cop just because you've decided that the speed that you
    	are travelling at is the "correct" amount in breaking the law.
    
    	And BTW, passing on the right is not illegal on a multi-lane
    	divided highway [MA, at least].  But if people had any consid-
    	eration it would be unnecessary at the very least.  I make my
    	best time in the right lane most of the time.
    

    re: .216 
    
    >And BTW, passing on the right is not illegal
    
    Its the only way to pass over here.
    
    >It doesn't matter how fast you're going ... if someone comes up
     behind you and wants to pass, and you have room to move over,
     just do it.
    
    I would. But if there is no room then I am not going to make any
    attempt to speed up. I am already speeding and he/she can wait their
    turn.
    
    Steven

>       <<< Note 528.217 by KERNEL::FREKES "Like a thief in the night" >>>
    
>    Its the only way to pass over here.

	It's

	hth

    One thing I like to do is what the expression on a tailgater when I jam
    on the breaks and let go.  It really makes their colon defibulate!

    re: -1
    
     See the title.

    Martin! Thats a good way to become roadkill! Ever hear of road rage?
    Whelp... thats the way to make em rage at you. And if your good enough
    at it, someone might pull out a hand gun and blow you off the road. I
    would play that game if you were behind me!!
    

    George, I'd put you out of your misery fast.  Bopth you and your Limo
    cap would be flying into the woods! :)

    
    	That reminds me of the woman driving on Rte. 9 last
    	week when I was headed to my doctor's appointment.
    
    	She was zipping along in the right lane.  I entered
    	Rte. 9 behind her, coming off of 495.  Apparently,
    	she chose that moment to glance up in her rearview
    	mirror and wondered, "Where'd that car come from?", because
    	she immediately slammed on her brakes, and drove at 25 miles
    	an hour in morning rush hour until we reached the next exit,
    	which was hers.
    
    	I was early for my appointment and didn't mind slowing down,
    	except for the three cars that nearly hit me from behind.
    
    	idjit indeed...
    
    	My guess is that she assumed that the only way for me to
    	pop up right behind her was that I'd been speeding, so	
    	she decided to "teach me a lesson".
    
    

Do you drive a car that looks like a copmobile?

    Now Jaaack. We musnt get angry about this. Are you having another bad
    hair day? :)
    
    

    George that was about as funny as a one legged man in a bumb kicking
    contest!

    
    	RE: .224
    
    	I would have given her a ticket for obstructing traffic.
    

    
    	re .224
    
    	I drive a car that looks like a mom-and-pop-mobile.
    
    	Besides, why would someone slam on her brakes and proceed
    	to drive 25 miles an hour if she thought a cop was behind her ?
    

    See the title.

What's the rush, y'all?
I do 60-65 in the rightmost lane, for the 12 miles I'm on the highway.  I bet
I drive farther than most of you.

    
    	No rush, I just didn't like the idea of getting
    	hit from behind, especially with the precious cargo
    	I'm carrying.
    
    

    With a 36" inseam, you drive further than me just by sitting still. 

"y'all" = no specific subjects, just all you speeders in general

>I do 60-65 in the rightmost lane, for the 12 miles I'm on the highway.  I bet
>I drive farther than most of you.


 I drive 22 miles each way on 93

    I was driving back from Cambridge last night. It was about 01:30 this
    morning and I was cruising at about 90. I came up behind two cars, they
    were in the other two lanes, so I had a clear route past them. As I
    passed the first car I thought, he was going slow, then I realized why.
    He was following a police partol car. The police car must have know I
    was speeding, but did not do anything. So I crawled past him at 70, and
    as soon as we got out of sight, floored it to put some distance between
    us. Then left the motorway at the next junction. 

	If you do 90 and there is a donut shop nearby, you are golden.

>   <<< Note 528.234 by CSLALL::HENDERSON "Give the world a smile each day" >>>
> I drive 22 miles each way on 93

Jeez, I go farther than that on the back roads. The speedsters are usually up
my tailpipe most of the way, at 5-10 MPH over the speed limit.

 Oh.  I thought you only went 12 miles.

    >The speedsters are usually up my tailpipe most of the way, at 5-10 MPH
    >over the speed limit.
    
     That's not even speeding! (under most conditions, given the posted
    speeds on most of the 'backroads'; other caveats available upon
    request)

    
    	Yeah, I'd estimate that about 1/2 of the drivers are comfortable
    	doing limit+15 on back roads.  However, I'm not very comfortable
    	around THEM.
    
    	I try to keep it within limit+10 ... usually limit+5 or limit+7.
    	But only because I got sick of getting at least one speeding
    	ticket per year.
    

    
    Funny, I never get tickets.
    

    Slab lacks mammaries. :-)

    Hey!  I never get speeding tickets either.

    
    Yeah, but I speed 8^).
    

    
    	RE: .241
    
    	Yes, and maybe Mr. ::BURT can tell you why.  8^)
    

I got a written warning this week. Wasn't paying attention.

    
    	Lucky break.
    
    	The fine for not paying attention is pretty hefty.
    

mz deBRA doesn't get tickets cause the cops' some testosteroned blue balled 
wimps massaging a pistol bigger than his gun whoms just wrenching in the gut 
for the chance to get a phone number or cheap thrill from a women prettier'n 
what's at the local whore house.

weak minded pigs, just like the simpleton's letting the fast cars off cause 
'hey, look what's under the hood... how could you let this baby just stroll 
along at these wimpy speeds? a real man needs this power' while the regular jake
gets raked cause he's just driving a wimpmobile.

cops have no sense of real dignity, just power.

ogre.

    'The power of the skirt...'

    well ogre, at least you're not bitter about it.

    >>Funny, I never get tickets.
    
    yeah, i know...
    
    >> Yeah, but I speed 8^).
    
    since when???  or was that 'posed to be sarcastic??
    
    
    
    

    Whhoooo-Haaaa! That came out of Reg's mouth! Reg yha old goat! 
    cough-cough I mean Org! Yha need a faster truck.:)
    
    

    
    The heaviness of my foot on the accelerator depends on how much I want
    to get to what's waiting for me at the end of the drive.
    

    >The heaviness of my foot on the accelerator depends on how much I want
    >to get to what's waiting for me at the end of the drive.
    
     By that standard, the guy in the Contour in front of me this morning
    must have been on his way to a punishment of some sort.

    har!

    >If you do 90 and there is a donut shop nearby, you are golden.
    
    We don't have donut shops on our motorways. The cops over hear don't
    seem too interested in eating donuts either.