Conference back40::soapbox

It's a US problem, from my viewpoint at least.  As long as they continue
arsing about like this, it'll never go away.

Chris.

    
     Well, if you guys would rather be friends with Fidel, be our guest.
    
     You can have all the sugar and cigars you want.
    
     We'll keep our distance, thanks.
    
     bb

>     Well, if you guys would rather be friends with Fidel, be our guest.

I think the Canadians would like it if the U.S. said that.

    
      Canada is independent.  Supposedly developed, too.  It is a fact
     of life that sometimes countries are at-odds, and as a third party,
     you cannot avoid offending one side or the other.  Don't whine
     about it, jest pick yer pizen.
    
      We do this all the time ourselves.
    
      bb

                     <<< Note 476.5 by CALLME::MR_TOPAZ >>>

>       Right, it really makes sense to treat Castro as a pariah and then
>       to suck up to the honorable folks who run El Salvador et al.

	Was anyone expecting US Foreign Policy to make sense?

Jim

    
      How old is Castro ?
    
      bb

    Big boys with big toys. Fetch them some water and a cloth.

    
      Long as Deng, yoiks !  How come commies can smoke like chimneys
     and last so long...
    
     bb

Lets see, Fidel overthrew a government friendly to the US, he invites the Soviets
to plant nucear missles aimed at the US mainland, sends his criminal population
to the US via rafts, and in general, has not been a very nice neighbor.

And some expect this government to kiss and make up with this guy?

Cuba will be a US friend when Castro is gone, not before.

    US policy toward Cuba is US business.  (It does appear from abroad to be
    driven more by the political power of the Cuban exile community than by
    any other factor.)
    
    Canadian policy toward Cuba is Canadian business.  European policy
    toward Cuba is European business.  Attempts by US to use trade
    sanctions to force other countries into line with their Cuba policy
    are naturally resented.
    
    This has been brewing for a while (see 189.8)
    
    -Stephen

    > Lets see, Fidel overthrew a government friendly to the US, he invites the 
    > Soviets to plant nuclear missiles aimed at the US mainland, sends his 
    > criminal population to the US via rafts, and in general, has not been a 
    > very nice neighbor.
    > 
    > And some expect this government to kiss and make up with this guy?
    > 
    > Cuba will be a US friend when Castro is gone, not before.

    I agree with you in principle, but what torques me off is the brain
    dead way that we are handling it.  If Cuba is our enemy, shut them
    down!  Period, end of discussion!  Institute a full blockade.  Don't
    let anything (MAYBE food and medicine) into the country.  The way we've
    been handling it will only prolong the agony.  Just cut them off and
    let them stew.  I believe that it will only be a short period of time
    until the people overthrow Fidel (especially if we are providing weapons
    to any insurgent.  If they have no insurgents, we can provide those as
    well.)
    
    Dan

Well, you see, there is this "agreement" between the US and the Soviets/Russians
stipulating what is unexceptable behaviour towards Cuba, and a blockade is
certainly one of them.

Besides, the current economic isolation has produced discomfort for decades
in Cuba and they haven't thrown him out yet. If they wish to tolerate
such conditions then that's their business. 

He'll be gone when he'll be gone ....

Doug.

    re: .15

    Minor nit....

    The USSR doesn't exist anymore.  That seems to me that we no longer
    have any obligation to them.

    Dan

>    Minor nit....
>
>    The USSR doesn't exist anymore. 

Er, well, shall we forget about all our treaties with the USSR then? Nukes and all?
For all intent and purpose, the Russian government is the former USSR so yes,
I still think these agreements still concern us.

Or did you forget the Smiley  :-)

Doug.

    
    No, I did not forget the smiley.  I left it off intentionally.  I still
    maintain that we do not have any agreement regarding Cuba with the
    USSR.  Therefore we can do anything we like with them.  I have already
    itemized my suggestions.  If you would like something clarified, I'd be
    glad to explain in more detail.
    
    Dan

    Cuba and the USSR may not be dating anymore, but I believe the USSR
    would launch a strong protest agianst us...
    
    Hell, I know it was 30+ years ago, but they were ready to use tacticals
    if we waded ashore.

    that's "against"...

    .19
    
    > I believe the USSR
    > would launch a strong protest
    
    Repeat after me.  The USSR does not exist.
    
    Write that 500 times on the whiteboard, and then come back with an
    alternative suggestion to "the USSR would [do anything]."

>    Repeat after me.  The USSR does not exist.

About a year ago I remember reading something about the US and
the USSR signing some sort of treaty, regarding nuclear weapons
I think.  There wasn't an explanation how this could be, as the
USSR, last I looked, still doesn't exist.

    .22
    
    > About a year ago I remember reading something about the US and
    > the USSR signing some sort of treaty
    
    And you believe everything you read, don't you.

    sorry Mr. B... insert <some former USSR tribe> 

>    And you believe everything you read, don't you.

Didn't say I did.

    .25
    
    > Didn't say I did.
    
    But you *did* imply that your *having read that the USSR and the USA
    concluded some sort of treaty recently* led you to believe that the
    USSR would still be able as a political entity to protest treatment of
    Cuba that it didn't like.

    	re .26
    
    	He implies nothing of the sort.  Go back and reread the last line
    	of his .22 (which precipitated your discussion with him.)

Will Binder eat crow twice in one day?

    .27
    
    Read the second clause of the first sentence in .19, and then read the
    first sentence of the four-line paragraph in .22.  The second sentence
    of that four-line paragraph says that MadMike doesn't understand how
    the US and the USSR could sign a treaty, but it does not invalidate his
    statement that he remembered reading about their having done so.
    
    .28
    
    Not thus far.

re .26:

>    But you *did* imply that your *having read that the USSR and the USA
>    concluded some sort of treaty recently* led you to believe that the
>    USSR would still be able as a political entity to protest treatment of
>    Cuba that it didn't like.

I implied nothing of the sort.

I mentioned the article simply as something that I saw that I cannot explain
but one possible explanation is that somehow, there may be a political
entity known as the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics still in existance,
for reasons unknown, probably to deal with loose ends left over from the
dissolution of the nation known as the USSR.

Since I have no idea whether this entity even exists I cannot have any
opinion to whether it would or could protest any treatment of Cuba,
or if anyone would notice if it did.

I have seen no other evidence that any entity known as the USSR has
existed since late 1991.

Now how do you like your crow? :-)

    .31
    
    Well, let me rephrase a little.  YOU may have implied nothing of the
    sort, but YOUR WORDS in .23 did.

    
     I just read a columnists' article in the Ottawa Citizen Business
    Section about a transcript from Jesse Helms. Apparently, it targets
    a Canadian Pizza Company doing business in Cuba. This is a local
    Canadian chain and has made a foray into Cuba , opening 2 outlets.
    
    In the transcript, this company is taking undue advantage of the
    vacuum left by the American blockade.
    
    J.Helms proceeds to win sympathy from the American Pizza lobby,
    courting them with this letter.
    He mentions that Pizza Nova can't be targeted directly since they
    source all their pizza ingredients in Canada.
    
     There is a mention of why this Cdn. company doesn't do business in the
    U.S., but according to the owner of Pizza Nova, he'd be crazy to
    compete with the likes of large chains such as Pizza Hut.
    
    
    Is this a witch hunt or what!!
    
    Norm
    

>    He mentions that Pizza Nova can't be targeted directly since they
>    source all their pizza ingredients in Canada.

There's nothing like Canadian olives.

    ....or pineaples

    
    I like Canadian bacon.

 I like Canada geese

    
    I like Cuban sugar.
    

    Is that why they beat a red path to your door?

    
    <----  HAR!    ;^)
    

    
    Are you sure it's not a red door?

    I guess it was a Canadian inside joke.

    
    I've never been inside a Canadian.

    Once you have, there's NO TURNING BACK BABY!

    
    When in Toronto, be sure to visit the Redpath Sugar Museum,
    on Queen's Quay East.
    
    

    
    I'll rush right over 8^).

    perhaps the US is still having problems dealing with a leader that they
    tried to assassinate.
    
    Failed murder attempts do tend to deter future friendships.
    
    
    
    
    Brian V