Conference back40::soapbox

    I've added "and other useless legislation" to the topic name, so we
    aren't limited to just the "anti-terrorist" bill.  Not that the topic
    name ever limits discussions, mind you.  8^)

    
    Steve,
    
    Your basenote has been forwarded to the FBI.
    
    NNTTM.
    
    ;^)
    

    > And whatever you do, do not carry any
    > anti-government litterature in your car/on your person, as this will
    > undoubtedly be reason enough to suspect you of sedition.
    
    As if it was not easy enough to plant the stuff on someone after they
    arrest and handcuff you. :-(
    
    Dan

CONGRESS:          104
BILL NO:           S. 735
  
OFFICIAL TITLE:    An act to prevent and punish acts of terrorism, and for
                   other purposes
  
SPONSOR:           Dole
DATE INTRODUCED:   04-27-95
BRIEF TITLE:       Comprehensive Terrorism Prevention Act of 1995
  
COSPONSORS:        7 CURRENT COSPONSORS
  As Introduced    Hatch, Nickles, Thurmond, Simpson, Brown, Kyl, Gramm.
  
COMMITTEE/SUBCOMMITTEE REFERRAL: No Information Available
  
VOTE TOTAL OUT OF HOUSE COMMITTEE: No Information Available
  
LEGISLATIVE ACTION:
 04-27-95    Introduced in the Senate. Read the first time. Placed
             on Senate Legislative Calendar under Read the First
             Time.
 05-01-95    Read the second time. Placed on Senate Legislative
             Calendar under General Orders. Calendar No. 102.
 05-25-95    Measure laid before Senate by Unanimous Consent.
 05-25-95    Considered by Senate.
 05-26-95    Considered by Senate.
 06-05-95    Considered by Senate.
 06-05-95    Cloture motion on the Dole substitute amendment (SP 1199)
             presented in Senate.
 06-06-95    Considered by Senate.
  
AMENDMENTS:        This Bill has
                   53 SENATE AMENDMENTS
  
                   SENATE AMENDMENTS
  Leahy            05-25-95               SP1198
                   No Description Available
  Dole             05-25-95               SP1199
                   In the nature of a substitute
  Lieberman        05-26-95               SP1200
                   To amend the bill with respect to emergency wiretap
                   authority
  Feinstein        06-05-95               SP1202           (Passed)
                   To amend the bill to authorize requirements for tagging
                   of explosive materials, and other purposes
  Smith            06-05-95               SP1203
                   To make technical changes in Sec. 102 of the Dole-Hatch
                   substitute
  Pressler         06-05-95               SP1204           (Passed)
                   To designate the Federal building at 1314 LeMay
                   Boulevard, Ellsworth Air Force Base, South Dakota, as
                   the "Cartney Koch McRaven Child Development Center"
  Pressler         06-05-95               SP1205
                   To amend title 18 of the United States Code regarding
                   false identification documents
  Specter          06-05-95               SP1206           (Passed)
                   To authorize assistance to foreign nations to procure
                   explosives detection equipment
  Brown            06-05-95               SP1207           (Withdrawn)
                   To extend U.S. sanctions against Iran to all countries
                   designated as "terrorist countries" by the Secretary of
                   State
  Kerrey           06-05-95               SP1208           (Passed)
                   To authorize funding for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
                   and Firearms and the U.S. Secret Service
  Feinstein        06-05-95               SP1209           (Passed)
                   To prohibit the distribution of information on the
                   making of explosive materials with intent or knowledge
                   that such information will be used for a criminal
                   purpose
  Coverdell        06-06-95               SP1210           (Passed)
                   To provide that proof of citizenship may be required for
                   voter registration, that voter registration cards may
                   not be used as proof of citizenship, and for other
                   purposes
  Kyl              06-06-95               SP1211
                   No Description Available
  Kerry            06-06-95               SP1212
                   No Description Available
  Boxer            06-06-95               SP1214           (Passed)
                   To increase the periods of limitation for violations of
                   the National Firearms Act
  Lieberman        06-06-95               SP1215           (Passed)
                   To amend the bill with respect to revisions of existing
                   authority for multipoint wiretaps
  Kohl             06-06-95               SP1216
                   No Description Available
  Nunn             06-06-95               SP1213
                   No Description Available
  Kennedy          06-06-95               SP1218           (Passed)
                   No Description Available
  Feingold         06-06-95               SP1220
                   No Description Available
  Kennedy          06-06-95               SP1219
                   No Description Available
  Biden            06-06-95               SP1217
                   No Description Available
  Biden            06-06-95               SP1224
                   No Description Available
  Lautenberg       06-06-95               SP1221
                   No Description Available
  Lautenberg       06-06-95               SP1222
                   No Description Available
  D`Amato          06-06-95               SP1223
                   No Description Available
  Feinstein        06-06-95               SP1225           (Passed)
                   No Description Available
  Abraham          06-06-95               SP1228           (Withdrawn)
                   To clarify the procedures for deporting terrorist aliens
  Brown            06-06-95               SP1229           (Withdrawn)
                   To express the sense of the Senate concerning officials
                   of organizations that refuse to renounce the use of
                   violence
  Biden            06-06-95               SP1226
                   No Description Available
  Boxer            06-06-95               SP1227
                   No Description Available
  Heflin           06-06-95               SP1230           (Passed)
                   To ensure that the cooperation of fertilizer research
                   centers in preparing studies
  Leahy            06-06-95               SP1238           (Passed)
                   To provide assistance and compensation for United States
                   victims of terrorist acts, and for other purposes
  Leahy            06-06-95               SP1240           (Passed)
                   To increase the special assessment for felonies and
                   extend the period of obligation
  Gramm            06-06-95               SP1231
                   No Description Available
  Gramm            06-06-95               SP1232
                   No Description Available
  Simon            06-06-95               SP1235
                   No Description Available
  Hatch            06-06-95               SP1233           (Passed)
                   To ensure air carrier security
  Simon            06-06-95               SP1234
                   No Description Available
  Bradley          06-06-95               SP1236
                   No Description Available
  Specter          06-06-95               SP1239
                   No Description Available
  Graham           06-06-95               SP1242
                   No Description Available
  Specter          06-06-95               SP1237
                   No Description Available
  Heflin           06-06-95               SP1241           (Passed)
                   To amend the Solid Waste Disposal Act to list the nerve
                   gases sarin and VX as a hazardous waste
  Levin            06-06-95               SP1243           (Passed)
                   To amend the penalty provisions for the use of
                   explosives or arson crimes
  Levin            06-06-95               SP1244
                   No Description Available
  Levin            06-06-95               SP1245
                   No Description Available
  Leahy            06-06-95               SP1246
                   No Description Available
  Leahy            06-06-95               SP1247           (Passed)
                   To give the President authority to waive the prohibition
                   on assistance to countries that aid terrorists
  Smith            06-06-95               SP1248
                   No Description Available
  Biden            06-06-95               SP1249
                   No Description Available
  Specter          06-06-95               SP1250           (Passed)
                   To ensure due process in deportation proceedings
  Nunn             06-06-95               SP1251           (Passed)
                   To authorize the Attorney General to request, and the
                   Secretary of Defense to provide, Department of Defense
                   assistance for the Attorney General in emergency
                   situations involving biological or chemical weapons of
                   mass destruction
  
COMMITTEE/CONFERENCE REPORT NUMBERS: No Information Available
  
RELATED LEGISLATION: No Information Available
  
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD PAGE REFERENCE: No Information Available
  
BILL DIGEST......  Apr 27, 95.
    TABLE OF CONTENTS:
    Title I: Substantive Criminal Law Enhancements
    Title II: Combating International Terrorism
    Title III: Alien Removal
    Title IV: Control of Fundraising for Terrorism Activities
    Title V: Assistance to Federal Law Enforcement Agencies
    Subtitle A: Antiterrorism Assistance
    Subtitle B: Intelligence
    Subtitle C: Additional Funding for Law Enforcement
    Title VI: Terrorist Interdiction
    Title VII: Criminal Procedural Improvements
    Subtitle A: Habeas Corpus Reform
    Subtitle B: Criminal Procedural Improvements
    Title VIII: Marking of Plastic Explosives
    Title IX: Miscellaneous Provisions
    Comprehensive Terrorism Prevention Act of 1995 -  Title I:
Substantive Criminal Law Enhancements  - Amends the Federal
criminal code to increase penalties for: (1) conspiracies
involving explosives; (2) specified offenses, including the
murder of foreign officials, official guests, or internationally
protected persons; and (3) the use of explosives or arson.
    (Sec. 102) Establishes penalties for acts of terrorism
transcending national boundaries. Sets forth provisions regarding
limits on prosecution, investigative responsibility, evidence,
extraterritorial jurisdiction, the statute of limitations,
detention, and wiretap authority.
    (Sec. 103) Sets penalties for: (1) conspiring to kill,
kidnap, or maim people in (currently limited to injuring property
of) a foreign government; and (2) possessing stolen explosives.
     Title II: Combating International Terrorism  - Amends: (1)
the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 (FAA) to prohibit assistance
to countries that aid, including providing military equipment to,
terrorist states; and (2) the International Financial
Institutions Act to direct the Secretary of the Treasury to
instruct the U.S. executive director of each international
financial institution to oppose assistance by such institutions
to terrorist states.
    (Sec. 205) Revises FAA provisions regarding antiterrorism
assistance to permit arms and ammunition to be provided under
such provisions only if they are directly related to
antiterrorism assistance. Limits the value of equipment and
commodities provided. Repeals a prohibition on using such funds
for personnel compensation or benefits. Sets a $1 million limit
on assistance provided to a foreign country for counterterrorism
efforts in any fiscal year, subject to specified conditions.
    (Sec. 206) Amends the Federal judicial code to provide that a
foreign country designated as a state sponsor of terrorism (state
sponsor) shall not be immune from the jurisdiction of the U.S.
courts.
    (Sec. 207) Directs the Secretary of State to provide annual
reports to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the
Chairman of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations that
include: (1) a list of all products and technologies that could
be used to promote or engage in terrorist acts (critical
technology) (and prohibits any product or technology manufactured
or developed in the United States or by a subsidiary of a U.S.
body that is determined to be critical technology from being sold
by the U.S. Government or private U.S. commercial interests to a
state sponsor to any entity or organization operating within such
state); and (2) detailed assessments of any country that provided
support for international terrorism, individual country efforts
to take effective action against state sponsors, and U.S.
Government efforts to implement provisions of the Export
Administration Act of 1979 regarding terrorism.
     Title III: Alien Removal  - Amends the Immigration and
Nationality Act (INA) to establish procedures for the removal of
alien terrorists. Authorizes the Attorney General to take into
custody and retain in custody any alien with respect to whom the
Attorney General certifies, under seal to a special court
(created by this title), that: (1) the Attorney General or Deputy
Attorney General has approved of the proceeding under this title;
(2) an alien terrorist is physically present in the United
States; and (3) removal of such alien terrorist by normal
deportation proceedings would pose a risk to U.S. national
security by disclosing classified information.
    Requires the Chief Justice of the United States to publicly
designate not more than five judges from up to five U.S. judicial
districts to hear and decide cases arising under this title.
    Sets forth provisions regarding: (1) custody and release
pending a hearing; (2) special court procedures; (3) the special
removal hearing, including the introduction in camera and ex
parte of evidence; (4) deportation determinations; (5) appeals;
and (6) extradition of aliens who have committed crimes of
violence abroad.
    (Sec. 303) Revises INA provisions regarding terrorist
activities, including the definitions of "terrorism activity,"
"terrorist organization," and "terrorism." Limits alien access to
Government information.
    (Sec. 304) Authorizes Attorney General access to certain
confidential immigration and naturalization files through court
order for specified identification and criminal law enforcement
purposes.
     Title IV: Control of Fundraising for Terrorism Activities  -
Amends the Federal criminal code to authorize the President to
regulate or prohibit, within the United States or by any person
subject to the jurisdiction of the States anywhere: (1)
fundraising or the provision of funds for use by or for the
benefit of any foreign organization, including persons assisting
such organization in fundraising, that the President has
designated as being engaged in terrorism activities; or (2)
financial transactions with any such foreign organization.
    Authorizes the President to designate any foreign
organization based on finding that: (1) the organization engages
in terrorism activity; and (2) the organization`s terrorism
activities threaten the national security, foreign policy, or
economy of the United States. Directs the President to prepare
and transmit to the Congress a report containing a list of the
organizations that the President has determined engage in, or
provide support for, terrorism activity. Sets forth provisions
regarding revocation of such designation, supplemental reports,
and judicial review.
    Prohibits any person within, or subject to the jurisdiction
of, the United States from: (1) raising, receiving, or collecting
on behalf of, or providing funds to or for, an organization or
person so designated by the President, or attempting to do so;
and (2) acting for or on behalf of any such organization or
person to transmit, transfer, or receive any funds raised in
violation of such provision or to transmit, transfer, or dispose
of any funds in which such an organization or person has an
interest.
    Sets forth provisions regarding: (1) authorized transactions
(including regulations setting forth procedures to be followed by
persons seeking to raise or provide funds for designated
organizations and licensing requirements); (2) special
requirements for financial institutions; (3) investigations; (4)
recordkeeping and reporting and civil actions by the Attorney
General; (5) penalties and injunctions; (6) extraterritorial
jurisdiction; (7) discovery and introduction of classified
information; and (8) penalties for providing material support to
terrorists.
     Title V: Assistance to Federal Law Enforcement Agencies -
Subtitle A: Antiterrorism Assistance  - Requires the Director of
the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to study all applicable
guidelines and laws regulating domestic surveillance and report
to the Congress its findings and suggestions for enhancing
domestic surveillance in support of investigations.
    (Sec. 502) Amends the Fair Credit Reporting Act to require a
consumer reporting agency (CRA) to furnish to the FBI the names
and addresses of all financial institutions at which a consumer
maintains or has maintained an account when presented with a
written request for that information signed by the Director which
certifies compliance with this section. Authorizes such
certification only if the Director has determined in writing that
such information is necessary for the conduct of an authorized
foreign counterintelligence investigation and specified other
conditions are met.
    Sets forth provisions regarding: (1) the furnishing of
identifying information by a CRA; (2) court orders for disclosure
of consumer reports; (3) confidentiality; (4) payment of fees;
(5) limits on dissemination; (6) damages and disciplinary actions
for violations, with a good-faith exception; and (7) limitation
of remedies and injunctive relief.
    (Sec. 503) Authorizes administrative subpoenas to be served
upon a common carrier or innkeeper determined to have records or
other tangible objects that may be relevant to a foreign
counterintelligence activity.
    (Sec. 504) Amends the State Department Basic Authorities Act
of 1956 and the Federal criminal code to increase the maximum
rewards for information concerning international terrorism.
    (Sec. 505) Requires the Director to report to the Congress on
the effectiveness of Federal provisions regarding providing
material support to terrorists.
     Subtitle B: Intelligence  - Directs the Attorney General and
the Director to: (1) study all applicable laws and guidelines
relating to electronic surveillance and the use of pen registers
and other trap and trace devices; and (2) report to the Congress
its findings and recommendations for the use of electronic
surveillance of terrorist or other criminal organizations and for
any legal modifications.
    (Sec. 512) Amends the Federal criminal code to authorize: (1)
wiretapping for terrorism and related offenses; (2) the
participation of foreign and State government personnel in
interceptions of communications; (3) the disclosure of
intercepted communications to foreign law enforcement agencies;
and (4) interceptions of communications for specified
terrorism-related offenses.
     Subtitle C: Additional Funding for Law Enforcement  -
Authorizes appropriations for FY 1996 through 2000 for FBI
activities to combat terrorism. Directs the Attorney General,
with such funds, to: (1) develop digital telephony technology;
(2) support and enhance the technical support center and tactical
operations; (3) expand legal attaches; (4) enhance Federal
wireless communications and antenna site lease shortfall; (5)
expand and improve the instructional, operational support, and
construction of the FBI academy; (6) expand and improve
investigative and managerial training courses for State, Indian
tribal, and local law enforcement agencies; (7) construct an FBI
laboratory and provide laboratory examination support; and (8)
create a special FBI counterterrorism and counterintelligence
fund for costs associated with terrorism cases.
    (Sec. 522) Authorizes additional appropriations for the U.S.
Customs Service and the Immigration and Naturalization Service.
    (Sec. 524) Authorizes appropriations to the Drug Enforcement
Administration for FY 1996 through 2000. Directs the Attorney
General, with such funds, to: (1) fund permanent change of
station transfers for special agent personnel; (2) establish and
maintain an adequate motor vehicle base; and (3) purchase
aircraft and replacement parts.
    (Sec. 525) Directs the Attorney General to hire additional
Assistant U.S. Attorneys. Authorizes additional appropriations
for the Department of Justice.
    (Sec. 526) Permits funding for authorizations provided in
this subtitle to be paid for out of the Crime Control Trust Fund.
     Title VI: Terrorist Interdiction  - Directs the Secretary of
State to implement an upgrade of all overseas visa lookout
operations to computerized systems with automated multiple-name
search capabilities.
    Declares that the Department of State shall be considered a
law enforcement agency for purposes of access to the National
Crime Information Center and other FBI criminal records with
respect to functions involving the processing of visas and
passports and for other immigration-related purposes.
    Amends the INA to make membership in a terrorist organization
a basis for exclusion from the United States.
    Sets forth provisions regarding the use of the Automated Visa
Lookout System and the convening of an Accountability Review
Board with respect to the processing of visas for admission into
the United States.
     Title VII: Criminal Procedural Improvements - Subtitle A:
Habeas Corpus Reform  - Amends the Federal judicial code to
establish a one-year statute of limitations for habeas corpus
actions brought by State prisoners.
    (Sec. 702) Specifies that: (1) there shall be no right of
appeal from a final order in a habeas corpus proceeding; and (2)
unless a circuit justice or judge issues a certificate of
appealability, an appeal may not be taken to the court of appeals
from the final order in a habeas corpus proceeding in which the
detention complained of arises out of process issued by a State
or Federal court. Permits such certificate to issue only if the
applicant has made a substantial showing of the denial of a
Federal constitutional right. Requires the certificate to
indicate which specific issue or issues satisfy the showing.
    Provides that if the applicant has failed to develop the
factual basis of a claim in State court proceedings, the Federal
court shall not hold an evidentiary hearing on the claim unless:
(1) the claim relies on a new rule of constitutional law, made
retroactive by the Supreme Court, that was previously unavailable
or on a factual predicate that could not have been previously
discovered through the exercise of due diligence; and (2) the
facts underlying the claim would be sufficient to establish by
clear and convincing evidence that, but for constitutional error,
no reasonable factfinder would have found the applicant guilty of
the underlying offense.
    Requires that a second or successive motion be certified by a
panel of the appropriate Federal Court of Appeals to contain: (1)
newly discovered evidence sufficient to establish by clear and
convincing evidence that no reasonable factfinder would have
found the movant guilty of the offense; or (2) a new rule of
constitutional law, made retroactive by the Supreme Court, that
was previously unavailable.
    (Sec. 706) Sets further limitations on second or successive
petitions.
    (Sec. 707) Sets forth special habeas corpus procedures in
capital cases.
    Requires (with exceptions): (1) a district court to render a
final determination of a petition for a writ of habeas corpus
brought in a capital case within 180 days after the date on which
the application is filed; and (2) a court of appeals to hear and
render a final determination of any appeal of an order granting
or denying such application within 120 days after the date on
which the reply brief is filed and to decide whether to grant a
petition for rehearing en banc within 30 days after the date on
which the petition for rehearing is filed.
    Sets forth provisions regarding failure to render a timely
determination.
    Requires the Administrative Office of U.S. Courts to submit
to the Congress an annual report on the compliance by the courts
of appeals with the time limitations under this section.
     Subtitle B: Criminal Procedural Improvements  - Grants U.S.
courts jurisdiction over an offense of: (1) aircraft piracy if a
U.S. national was aboard the aircraft, an offender is a U.S.
national, or an offender is afterwards found in the United
States; and (2) destruction of aircraft or aircraft facilities if
a U.S. national was or would have been on board the aircraft, an
offender is a U.S. national, or an offender is afterwards found
in the United States.
    (Sec. 722) Declares that all the territorial sea of the
United States is part of the United States, is subject to its
sovereignty, and for purposes of Federal criminal jurisdiction,
is within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of
the United States. Provides that whoever commits on, above, or
below any portion of the U.S. territorial sea specified crimes
which would be punishable if committed within the jurisdiction of
the State, territory, possession or district in which it is
situated, shall be guilty of a like offense and subject to a like
punishment.
    (Sec. 723) Makes exceptions to foreign sovereign immunity in
certain cases involving acts of international terrorism, torture,
extrajudicial killing, aircraft sabotage, hostage taking, and
genocide in a foreign state.
    (Sec. 724) Adds: (1) foreign murder as a money laundering
predicate offense; (2) terrorist offenses to the Racketeer
Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) statute; (3)
terrorism offenses to the money laundering statute; and (4)
conspiracy to terrorism offenses.
    (Sec. 725) Expands the weapons of mass destruction statute to
set penalties with respect to any U.S. national who, outside of
the United States, uses, threatens, attempts, or conspires to
use, a weapon of mass destruction.
    Includes within the definition of "weapon of mass
destruction" any poisonous chemical agent or substance,
regardless of form or delivery system, designed for or capable of
causing widespread death or injury.
    (Sec. 731) Provides for pretrial detention for possession of
firearms or explosives by convicted felons.
     Title VIII: Marking of Plastic Explosives  - Prohibits: (1)
the manufacture, importation, exportation, shipment, transport,
transfer, receipt, or possession of any plastic explosive which
does not contain a detection agent, with exceptions; and (2) any
person (other than a U.S. agency or the National Guard of any
State) possessing any plastic explosive on the effective date of
this Act from failing to report to the Secretary of the Treasury
the quantity of such explosives possessed, the manufacturer or
importer, any identification marks, and such other information as
the Secretary may prescribe.
    Sets forth: (1) penalties for violation of this title; and
(2) affirmative defenses.
    Directs the Attorney General to exercise authority over
violations of this title only when committed by a member of a
terrorist or revolutionary group (and, in such case, the Attorney
General shall have primary investigative responsibility).
    (Sec. 802) Requires the Secretary of the Treasury to direct
the Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms to
study and report to the Congress on the tagging of explosive
materials for purposes of identification and detection, the
possibility and practicality of rendering inert common chemicals
used in manufacturing explosives, and the feasibility of imposing
controls on certain precursor chemicals used to manufacture
explosives.
     Title IX: Miscellaneous Provisions  - Provides for
severability of provisions of this Act.
.

|   Before I fly off the hadle once more (not counting my comments below,
|   of course  8^) )  regarding the passage of the so called "anti-terrorist" 
|   bill, I'd like to see the actual text of it.
    
    There are three, which are you interested in?
    
    HR 1158, which was sent to Clinton and *VETOED*.  (You all were
    whining on and on about that just the other day.)
    
    S 735 and HR 896 are still making their way through the legislative
    process.
    
|   Is this info on-line anywhere?
    
    Yes.
    
|   If so, I'd appreciate it if someone would post it here.
    
    No.  Learn to feed yourself.
    
    http://www.house.gov/
    http://thomas.loc.gov/
    
|   I'll admit to not keeping up as well as I should be, but I THOUGHT this
|   was the bill that was shot down in the House.
    
    You have no clue.
    
    								-mr. bill

    My understanding is the senate passed the bill.  There should be an
    similar bill in the house, if the house passes their version the
    2 are consolidated and sent to the prez for signature.  
    
    My calls/faxes and letters don't mean squat so I'm not getting worked
    up over it.  I'll read the ACT and check it out.  I'll see if it
    applies to me and if so, how.  (this all applies to once both houses
    pass the bills and the president signs it).  I suppose what I'll
    really do is lean all over my state help and ask them to remember
    "jurisdiction".  In other words, let DC play around, up in DC.  What
    they do is irrelavent in Georgia - usually.

        Welcome to post-Constitutional America!

        We have laws authorizing prior restraint, assumption of guilt,
        confiscation without due process, warrantless searches, trial
        without jury, guilt by association, and the use of the military to
	engender law enforcement.

        We have laws abrogating free speech, religious expression, free
        association, the right to petition the government for the redress
        of grievances, and the right to defend ourselves.

        We have laws that federalize education, crime, police, and the
        organized militia.

	We have regulations on just about every conceivable human activity
	with legislation in the hopper to address whatever hasn't been
	covered yet.

	We are being led into captivity. 

	TonyC
		

    
|   I'll see if it applies to me and if so, how.
    
    Why waste your time?  If it applies to you, it won't apply to
    you anyway.
    
    
    								-mr. bill

    re: Mr. "US CODE"
    
    Is an ACT the same as a BILL the same as a RESOLUTION?
    Yes/No?
    
    Is an ACT, once signed, the same as a bill thats been enacted into
    LAW?
    Yes/No?
    
    What is the difference, legally, Mr. Bill?
    Notice, while this bill does amend a portion of the US code (section
    18 probably), it also amends many ACTS.  I caught a portion of the
    bill during the debate which applied to "US citizens" which caught my
    eye.  Doesn't apply. 
    
    I'm not above the law.  I obey the supreme law of the land.  I don't
    blow up buildings or cause problems for others, so don't worry about
    me.  This act is useless.  This act is over reaction on the part
    of congress,  I don't want to freak out and say it's part of a 
    conspiracy to erode our rights.  Whatever the reasoning for enacting
    this trash, it's not good.
    
    MadMike          

    How long has it been since there was any "useful legislation"? This has
    been an oximoron for the last 50 years.
    
    ...Tom

    oxymoron

    <----- Sorry  

    To make things simple, the bill should read as follows. Anybody who
    commits a terrorist act against the US and/or its citizens and kills 
    anybody(innocent or not) should get the chair. Excuse me if this sounds
    barbaric, but I can not stand any acts of violence against defenseless
    people.
    
    

                     <<< Note 456.14 by CSLALL::SECURITY >>>
>    To make things simple, the bill should read as follows. Anybody who
>    commits a terrorist act against the US and/or its citizens and kills 
>    anybody(innocent or not) should get the chair.

Well, I define "terrorist act" as "entering a note in SOAPBOX under an
anonymous account name, for instance ::SECURITY".

I'm sure you get my point...

Last time it was "assault weapons". It didn't fly, so the laws got rewritten.
We now have laws banning guns with pistol grips, a very dangerous and
destructive firearm accessory. What this time, rental trucks? Fertilizer?
Kerosene?

Blowing up buildings is already illegal.

    Aside from all of the other issues (another intrusion into what's
    left of our Constitution, and so on), would the features of this
    bill have enabled law enforcement types to prevent the OKC bombing?
    
    If yes, how?  If no, what's the point of this bill other than yet
    another power grab by the Big Government Dems and Repubs?
    
    Chris

    So what is the answer?  Do we wait until after the dastardly deed has
    been done?  Do we wait until someone blows up another federal building
    or guns down an elected official or blows up another Planned
    Parenthood building or strings up someone because of the color 
    of their skin or their sexual preference?  How do you suggest 
    we take action to avoid these things from happening?
    
    
    		JUST ASKIN
    
    
                  Art 

    re: Mr. Bill
    
    Thank you for your kind response.
    
    However, please realize that I DO NOT HAVE access to the internet, thus
    I asked others with access if they would help (thanks, Jim).
    
    Have a nice day.
    
    -steve

RE: <<< Note 456.17 by SALEM::STYVES >>>

>>How do you suggest  we take action to avoid these things from happening?
    
        For the most part, we cannot prevent these things from happening.
        How does the current legislation prevent terrorism?  If anything,
        it's likely to provoke terrorism by giving the less stable types
        more reason to believe the fedgov has been taken over by aliens.
	We cannot prevent terrorism with paranoid, knee-jerk, fascist
	legislation. 

        However, we can take action against the perpetrators by punishing
        them to the full extent of the already existing laws.  At the very
        least, this would prevent these creeps from wreaking any more
        havoc, at least while they are incarcerated, or especially if they
        have been executed. 
	
	TonyC
	

>                      <<< Note 456.17 by SALEM::STYVES >>>
>    So what is the answer?  Do we wait until after the dastardly deed has

How about putting criminals in jail and keeping them there? Radical, eh?

As far as this bombing, nothing at all could have prevented it, short of
total police state crackdown around all Federal buildings, at all farm supply
houses, at all diesel fuel depots, at all truck rental agencies, etc. etc.

Sometimes people just go nuts. Doodoo happens. If you want to live in a
sealed box, go for it.

    .13
    
    > bill to require manutufacture to add tiny
    > colored plastic to all explosive as fingerprint.
    
    This will actually work, too, because of the little known law of
    physics that makes it impossible for anybody except licensed
    manufacturers to make explosives.  I guess the fulminate of mercury
    and gunpowder and nitroglycerine I made during the summer of 1961
    weren't actually explosives, so it's all okay.  Sleep well.

>       <<< Note 456.21 by SMURF::BINDER "Father, Son, and Holy Spigot" >>>

>    This will actually work, too, because of the little known law of
>    physics that makes it impossible for anybody except licensed
>    manufacturers to make explosives.  I guess the fulminate of mercury
>    and gunpowder and nitroglycerine I made during the summer of 1961
>    weren't actually explosives, so it's all okay.  Sleep well.

Your friendly gov't agents will be around shortly to; 
1) provide you with a supply of plastic tags/balls to put in your homebrew
2) To ask you politely "please don't make anymore nasty stuff"
3) beat the snot out of you, your family, your canary, trash your house
   and throw your butt in prison for what you might do with the knowledge.

Pick one!  :-} 

BTW in a few years when all that non-biodegradable plastic bits from 
fertilizers start showing up floating in our rivers, or just piling up
on perfectly good farmland what will the eco-freaks say?

Amos

    They'll say....
    
    "Like wow you know, there's plastic and stuff in our lakes, you know,
    and it's causing all sorts of harm to the snail darter, you know, Like
    totally bogus man."

    re: tagants in commercial explosives....
    
|   I guess the fulminate of mercury and gunpowder and nitroglycerine I
|   made during the summer of 1961 weren't actually explosives, so it's all
|   okay.  Sleep well.
    
    You can thank the NRA for that.  You see, orginally, black
    powder were going to be tagged as well.  Well, don't get near that
    buzzsaw.  The ILA presented lengthy testimony that 16 percent of
    the bombings that take place in the US are insignificant.
    
    Unanimous approval of the amendment was possible only *AFTER* bowing
    to the NRA (and Dole).
    
    								-mr. bill

    
    
    Art,
    
    Good question, unfortunately the answer is that in a free society you
    cannot prevent such things.  There are always going to be the nutter
    out there who will participate in this type of activity.  
    
    
    Mike

    re: tagants in commercial explosives....
    
|   I guess the fulminate of mercury and gunpowder and nitroglycerine I
|   made during the summer of 1961 weren't actually explosives, so it's all
|   okay.  Sleep well.
    
    And in another spin.  I guess 84% (the bombings done with commercial
    explosives, where taggants would significanly aid in the identification
    of the perpetrators) is not good enough for you.  The old 100% or
    nothing diversion.
    
    
    Don't put VIN numbers on motor vehicles, because afterall, only an
    insignificant number of them are ever in any way involved in a crime.
    
    								-mr. bill

     Gee, I'm sure that the percentages will stay the same once they start
    putting taggants in commercial explosives... After all, gun crime
    stopped once they started putting serial numbers on guns...

>   <<< Note 456.24 by PERFOM::LICEA_KANE "when it's comin' from the left" >>>
>    The ILA presented lengthy testimony that 16 percent of
>    the bombings that take place in the US are insignificant.

Yah, right.
Now tell us what they actually said.

> "when it's comin' from the left" >>>

	... then it's probably coming from the victim of a government brain
	laundry.
	

    >So what is the answer?  Do we wait until after the dastardly deed has
    >been done?  Do we wait until someone blows up another federal building
    >or guns down an elected official or blows up another Planned
    >Parenthood building or strings up someone because of the color
    >of their skin or their sexual preference?  How do you suggest
    >we take action to avoid these things from happening?
    
    
    Have I been asleep or are these things illegal already??
    
    ...Tom

    
|Yah, right.
|Now tell us what they actually said.
    
    "Using BATF's statistics [black and smokeless powders comprised 16
    percent of criminal bombins in 1991], it seems apparant that black
    and smokeless powder are not a major part of the bombing problem."
    
    Tell that to the woman who pulled into a service station with a pipe
    bomb under her car.
    
    I submit that two bombs a day *is* a major part of the bombing problem.
    I submit that the Unibomber *is* a major part of the bombing problem.
    
    But the ILA/NRA disagrees.
    
    								-mr. bill

Unabomber.  NNTTM.

    .26
    
    You just don't get it it, Mr. Bill, I guess you've been spending too 
    much time with Sluggo again.
    
    If there are taggants in commercial explosives, more people who would
    otherwise use commercial explosives will make their own bang-stuff.
    
    Anybody - yes, ANYBODY - can safely make black powder using materials
    that are readily available over the counter and are ALL sold for
    purposes other than the manufacture of explosives.  Since two of the
    constituents of black powder are available for medical use, I doubt
    seriously whether taggants can be added to them without causing a
    furor.  Of course, I suppose we could start requiring a prescription
    for them, as if nobody ever stole a prescription pad and faked a few
    lines...
    
    Get real.

   <<< Note 456.31 by PERFOM::LICEA_KANE "when it's comin' from the left" >>>

>    "Using BATF's statistics [black and smokeless powders comprised 16
>    percent of criminal bombins in 1991], it seems apparant that black
>    and smokeless powder are not a major part of the bombing problem."
 
	Seems fairly straightforward. You may disagree with the
	interpretation of the statistics, but the stats themselves
	are clear.

	You failed to mention (error of ommision?) that none of the
	manufacturers of black or smokeless powders had studied, or
	could predict, the effects of taggants on their products.

	Nit time. While blackpowder is classified as an explosive,
	smokeless powders are not. Smokeless powder is listed as
	a flammable, not unlike gasoline.

Jim

>       <<< Note 456.33 by SMURF::BINDER "Father, Son, and Holy Spigot" >>>

I can see it all now Dick, A license from the BATF for Charcoal for the
ol' BBQ.

We experimented with Nitro glycerin in HS, never got it stable, blew lots
of small craters in the local sandpit :-}

    .35
    
    > We experimented with Nitro glycerin in HS, never got it stable
    
    One assumes you were using H2SO4 and doing the mixing in a cooler?

        Following mr. bill's logic, we should return to alcohol
	prohibition.  Alcohol has been shown to be involved in about half
	the highway deaths.  What's that, about 25000 booze related
	highway deaths per year?  I'll venture that alcohol figures
	prominently in crimes involving firearms, too.

	After all, if it saves one life ....
	

    
    
    	Mr. Bill's logic is an oxymoron.....
    
    
    

    
 >   Tell that to the woman who pulled into a service station with a pipe
 >   bomb under her car.
  

 What would you have then? Maybe a couple of thousand people bought a pound
 of that particular lot of powder. Any evidenced connecting the tangent in the
 powder to anyone of the thousands of people who buy this stuff would be
 purely circumstantial and almost worthless as evidence. 

 Or to put it another way, tangents would be no more useful than what we have
 today. That is, "The bomb was made with 3 pounds of 4096, the accused had an
 empty can of 4096 in his trash barrel. He is obviously guilty your honor."

   
 >    I submit that two bombs a day *is* a major part of the bombing problem.
 >   I submit that the Unibomber *is* a major part of the bombing problem.
 
  You're spot on there. But I submit that tangents would be useless and possibly
  misused in court, and potentially destablizing to the product which creates
  a new problem without solving the original one.

  Does not the speed at which this piece of legislation is moving without so
  much as a cursory study being done bother you? Or do you just prefer to 
  disagree with any position the NRA might take on any particular issue?

  Doug.

    
    
>  Does not the speed at which this piece of legislation is moving without so
>  much as a cursory study being done bother you? Or do you just prefer to 
>  disagree with any position the NRA might take on any particular issue?
    
    	Oh!!! Oh!!!!! I know the answer!!!!!
    
    
    

    
    The Secretary of Treasury shall conduct a study....
    
    								-mr. bill

    
|	You failed to mention (error of ommision?) that none of the
|	manufacturers of black or smokeless powders had studied, or
|	could predict, the effects of taggants on their products.
 
    You are incorrect.  Studies have shown that taggants do not
    effect the explosive qualities or the safety.  The ILA strawman
    was that nobody *specifically* studied the effect of taggants
    in muzzle loaders.
    
    								-mr. bill   

    In this new bill, is there anywhere in it that defines exactly
    what a terrorist is?
    
    I sure would hate to be labeled one for buying powder for my 
    muzzle loader.  Or will "THEY" try to take that away as well?
    
    This kind of reminds me of this little thing I read once...
    My own version,
    
    When they took my gun, nobody protested...
    When they took my hunting away, nobody protested
    When they took my rights away...There was nobody left to protest...
    
    A nation of SHEEP, ready to be fleeced under they guise of OUR NEW
    STEP FATHERS who know best...
    
    Sin-te-da

From Risks Digest 17.17:

Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 09:27:50
From: [email protected] (Mycal!)
Subject: The Internet is a Dangerous Place

I just learned yesterday that the Internet is a dangerous place.  It seems
someone up in Canada posted a message about a bomb and made it look like I
wrote the message.  Well, guess what happened, I got a visit from the U.S.
Secret Service.  It seems that they don't quite understand the Internet and
think that, just because my name and E-mail address appeared in the text of
the document, I wrote it.

If anyone knows of any `bomb' files that have my name on them, would you
please tell me what archive they are stored at, because I didn't write them
and I want my name off them?

Thanx, Mycal Johnson  [email protected]

    
    	big-brother is watching....
    
    
    

   <<< Note 456.42 by PERFOM::LICEA_KANE "when it's comin' from the left" >>>

    
>    You are incorrect.  Studies have shown that taggants do not
>    effect the explosive qualities or the safety.  The ILA strawman
>    was that nobody *specifically* studied the effect of taggants
>    in muzzle loaders.
 
	Since you mention muzzleloaders, I'll have to assume that you are
	refering only to blackpowder. 

	Use in muzzleloading firearms and the safety of such additives
	in this application would, of course, concern the NRA. I really
	do not know of other uses for blackpowder, although I imagine
	that there are still a few folks that use it as a commercial
	explosive.

	It's been some time since I was "into" muzzleloaded pistols, but
	typically, even though charges are given by weight, you measure
	by volume. Any additive would, of course, change the volume
	required (it would also change the weight of the charge).

	As for smokeless powder, all charges are measured by weight, so we
	have the same problem with additives. Weight changes of as little
	as .5 grams can have fairly serious consequences for reloaders of
	handgun ammunition, depending on the caliber and the powder being
	used.

	A serious issue of cost/benefit is legitimately raised. How many
	people would be injured by charges that unintentionally dissassemble
	guns as opposed to how many are injured by the criminal misuse of 
	black/smokeless powders. 

	Of course, it could all be a plot to make firearms as unsafe as
	possible so as to justify further regulatory measures, but I prefer
	to think that it is simple ignorance rather than a malicious
	conspiracy.


Jim

    guys, guys, guys,...
    
    liten up on mr bill... he has obviously just missed taking his medicine
    today.
    
    mr bill, I've been reading you messages with interest.  I have yet to
    read on that is complete and coherent.  Please for our sake stay up to
    date on your medication, so that hopefully your comments will make more
    sense.  I do hate to see you make a fool of yourself through rambling. 
    It's much more interesting when you make a clear and incorrect point.
    
    Hope this helps :-)
    
    Dan

    Re:  456.31
    
    The Unabomber makes his/her own explosives.  The first couple of bombs
    were made from scrappings of match heads.  Several have been made from
    home-made black powder.  Supposedly some of the later devices have been
    some form of nitro-cellulose based compound.
    
    Taggants would not help in this case.
    
    /jim

    re: .46
    
|   Since you mention muzzleloaders, I'll have to assume that you are
|   refering only to blackpowder. 
    
    It was nothing but an NRA strawman that tagging smokeless powder was
    in the President's bill.  So yes, I'm refering only to blackpowder.
    
|   Use in muzzleloading firearms and the safety of such additives in this
|   application would, of course, concern the NRA.
    
    If they presented testimony that was limitted to such a concern, then
    they would have presented testimony in their area of expertise. 
    Instead, their testimony regarding muzzleloading was *shorter* than
    the testimony they presented on several how-to-make-a-bomb fantasies.
    Including a couple of "easy to make yourself" detonators which would
    indeed be "easy to make yourself."  But, showing their lack of
    expertise on the matter, these "easy to make yourself" detonators
    were also "easy to blow yourself up" detonators.  Which, if so many
    people didn't die when bombers blow themselves up, would be a feature,
    not a bug.
    
    Then they went on to present even more misinterpret-a-fact testimony
    when they went on the give their admittedly non-expert testimony on
    the value of taggants in bombing cases.
    
|   I really do not know of other uses for blackpowder, although I imagine
|   that there are still a few folks that use it as a commercial explosive.
    
    It is also used widely in criminal explosives.  But never mind that,
    because, after all, you can just brew up a batch in your kitchen, if
    you know what you are doing.
    
|   As for smokeless powder....
    
    Tagging smokeless powder was *never* included in the bill.  Just
    blackpowder.
    
    								-mr. bill

RE:  <<< Note 456.49 by PERFOM::LICEA_KANE "when it's comin' from the left" >>>

	Ah, yes, the Schumerites never use distortions or biases to amplify
	their case.  Only the other side does.  Typical liberal
	demonization of anything they don't understand. 

	The issue is not whether explosives are evyl.  They cannot be evyl.
	They have no consciousness.  They are not aware.

	Punish those who misuse these substances.  They are individuals
	responsible for their own actions.  They are evil.

        You cannot live by the rule of law in the Constitution and enact
        rubbish like the AT bill in an attempt at un-Constitutional prior
        restraint.  You cannot prevent terrorism, you can only punish it.

	This deliberately stupid piece of junk legislation feeds on knee-
	jerk emotionalism to lead us closer to tyranny. Is it simply ironic
	or is it the smirking cynicism of the collectivists that such attempts
	to prevent terrorism will only establish it?  Citizens will be
	caught in the squeeze between an increasingly tyrannical government
	and an escalating violent response to same.

	mr bill, your emotional appeal to "tell it to the woman that was
	blown up by the pipe bomb, blah, blah" can be used to justify
	virtually any intrusive ordinance. Perhaps we should put serial
	tags on pipe sections to help capture or discourage the perpetrators.

        Tell it to the parents whose children were killed, maimed, raped,
        or otherwise brutalized by drunks last year.  There were alot more
        of them than were killed or injured by criminal, accidental, or
        suicidal gunfire. 

    > It is also used widely in criminal explosives.  But never mind that,
    
    Obviously your area of expertise.
    Gee wizz you criticise other right quick when YOU BELIEVE that they are
    talking outside of their area, what is your knowledge of making
    exposives ?   :-/
    
    Dan

   <<< Note 456.49 by PERFOM::LICEA_KANE "when it's comin' from the left" >>>

>    If they presented testimony that was limitted to such a concern, then
>    they would have presented testimony in their area of expertise. 
>    Instead, their testimony regarding muzzleloading was *shorter* than
>    the testimony they presented on several how-to-make-a-bomb fantasies.

	If they did this, then you and I agree. Bomb-making is not an 
	area of expertise in the NRA. People should not testify before
	Congress on areas in which they are not expert.

Jim

> > If they presented testimony that was limitted to such a concern, then
> > they would have presented testimony in their area of expertise. 
> > Instead, their testimony regarding muzzleloading was *shorter* than
> > the testimony they presented on several how-to-make-a-bomb fantasies.

	> If they did this, then you and I agree. Bomb-making is not an 
	> area of expertise in the NRA. People should not testify before
	> Congress on areas in which they are not expert.
    
    Jim, it may be an area of expertise of the person speaking, or possibly
    the information was being quoted from experts research.  I have not
    heard otherwise.  All I have heard is mr bill's take on it.  From my
    experience mr bill tends to spout with weak facts.
    
    Dan

                    <<< Note 456.53 by DEVLPR::DKILLORAN >>>

>    Jim, it may be an area of expertise of the person speaking, or possibly
>    the information was being quoted from experts research.  I have not
>    heard otherwise.

	Wouldn't matter. Anyone representing the NRA should not even
	try to give testimony on bomb-making. Legitimate testimony
	should be focused firearms and the potential problems that
	might face shooters. Weaknesses in the bill, relating to the
	ease of producing blackpowder would also be fair game. Anything
	past this should not be brought up by representatives of the
	Association.

Jim

    > Weaknesses in the bill, relating to the
    > ease of producing blackpowder would also be fair game. Anything
    > past this should not be brought up by representatives of the
    > Association.
    
    Jim, I agree with you here.  My point was more that the fact that the
    testimony was not necessarily incorrect.  It seemed that mr bill's
    assumption was that since it was the NRA, they only know about guns,
    and not about anything else.  I was pointing out that the testimony may
    in fact be correct.  If it is correct, then it is important regardless
    of what organiztion presented it.
    
    Dan

                    <<< Note 456.55 by DEVLPR::DKILLORAN >>>

>    Jim, I agree with you here.  My point was more that the fact that the
>    testimony was not necessarily incorrect.  It seemed that mr bill's
>    assumption was that since it was the NRA, they only know about guns,
>    and not about anything else.  I was pointing out that the testimony may
>    in fact be correct.  If it is correct, then it is important regardless
>    of what organiztion presented it.
 
	I don't think there is an issue of "correct" or "incorrect" for
	me. The issue is "appropriate" or "inappropriate". My opinion
	is that it is inappropriate for any NRA rep to testify regarding
	a bombmaking recipe. The rep DID do this and should not have.



Jim

-- [ From: Gene Haag * EMC.Ver #2.2 ] --

So now we're going to have an anti-terrorism bill - passed by all
those who fear being labeled "for" terrorism by the press should
they have voted no. The president and press corps did something
they do very well since the Oklahoma City bombing - that is 
scaring the hell out of as many Americans as they could to 
advance their own political goals. All at our expense financially
and through a further erosion of our constitutional rights as free 
citizens.

If you ask, most people will tell you the passage of this bill doesn't
make them feel any safer from potential terroristic acts. Those that
told me "yes, I do feel safer" couldn't tell me how or why. I'm being 
forgiving here since most didn't use the word "safer", they used
the word "better". Huge difference. Like somehow the passage of
this legislation is tied to the healing processes associated with
the OKC tragedy. Its more legislation that is supposed to make us 
feel safer. But will it really help? Well let's summarize who really 
benefits from the passage of this legislation.

Its important to keep in mind that inside the DC beltway who "really"
benefits from new legislation is measured strictly in monetary terms.
Money talks, and in political circles its money that creates, maintains,
and grows organizational structures. This is OK if those oganizations
provide a worthwhile value and, in this case, a measurable service to
the people. 

The Anti-terrorism bill was passed so hastily that, like many government
hand-outs, very little was discussed about how the receiving organizations
would actually spend the money. General terms were discussed in
committee's but there remains almost no accountability of any receiving
organization from an outside agency. In other words, these organizations
were given this money with virtually no strings attached. In fact, if any
organization doesn't spend its allotted money during any fiscal year 
(practically unheard of in government circles) it will have those monies
automatically rolled over in their following years' source of allotted 
funds.

So who got what? Here is the monetary breakdown taken from the
actual bill itself. These figures represent the additional funds granted
to each organization that are to be used strictly for anti-terrorism
activities (which are whatever each organization defines them to be)
 over the next four years. The additional comments are mine.

$28 million for the Forest Service.
Presumably we could be attacked by spotted owls sometime soon.
The Forest Service didn't even ask for the money but as a Federal
Policing Agency they were granted the money to do their part in a
coordinated, comprehensive Federal effort to combat terrorism. Keep
in mind that a "comprehensive Federal effort" implies that everyone
is getting onboard to address the problem. The president demanded
that. Participation requires money, so goes the DC logic, so the 
Forest Service gets an early Xmas present.

$25 million for the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS)
This money is to be used to investigate and deport those foreign
peoples suspected as terrorists who may be living here illegally. 
This is a joke. First, if the INS knows of someone living here illegally 
why do they need more money, and yet another suspected illegal
act - terrorism, to boot them out? Second, one needs only be
suspected of terroristic activity (something no where near close
to being defined) to be given the boot, arrested, or worse. The 
INS asked for, and was refused by congressional vote last year, 
about that much money to help beef up its own internal swat 
team - complete with military style training and weapons. 
What a coincidence.

$100 million for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (BATF)
This is an organization that is scheduled to under go congressional
hearings next month into suspected abuses of power that led to the
death of innocent civilians. Many of us screamed to the high heavens
to withhold this money until those hearings were complete. BATF
will no doubt use significant chunks of that money to ensure its
political survival during those hearings. What a slap in the face to 
those who are waiting to see if the deaths of loved ones were the 
result of deliberate, hostile actions by this rogue agency.

$162 million for the Presidential Secret Service (SS)
This money was allocated specifically to the SS to ensure the
president gets "the level of protection from terroristic actions as
affords the office". How ignorant do these people think we are? 
The request is obvious. Basically, how could any congress person
vote against protecting the president? Not one bothered to ask the
SS why they weren't providing the president that kind of protection
as a matter of daily activities. The SS certainly hasn't been lobbying 
congress for that kind of funding in recent years. Like flies to the dung 
heap, every agency scrambles for the "easy" and "free" money.

$400 million for the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA)
This money was appropriated primarily because of one issue.
That being, the alleged culprits of the OKC bombing are alleged to
have sold drugs to finance the operation. It was more likely
appropriated because of the lobbying abilities and political
connections of its leader. Think about it, this is the agency 
that has spent Billions of the taxpayers money on its now 
infamous war on drugs program. The success of that 
program is painfully obvious as witnessed by the daily 
shootouts and killings on the nightly news. This is the
same agency that recently lobbied congress for more
money based on its self proclaimed success of reducing
Americans expenditures on illegal drugs from $64 Billion
a year in 1986, to "only" $48 Billion last year. The DEA
withdrew the request when confronted by facts that the
lower number was due to increased competition among
major drug dealers which had produced a "glut" of drugs 
on the US market thus reducing the cost while usage was 
still increasing. The DEA was attempting to use its failures,
disguised as successes, to obtain even more money to use
on worthless programs. DEA officials didn't even bother 
apologizing for the attempted fraud. That congress didn't do anything 
about it either tells lots about the budgeting processes inside the
beltway.
 
$1.226 BILLION for the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)
The bulk of this money is to be used to used to monitor terrorists
and those suspected of "terroristic activities". Sounds good, doesn't
it? But what constitutes "terroristic activity"? Its NOT DEFINED in this
legislation. Its leaves much of that determination in the hands of the
Attorney General of the US. Such ill defined activities are ripe for
abuse. The past is a damned good indicator that if you give an agency
that much unaccountable leverage, they will abuse the rights of 
innocent citizens. Perhaps the most dangerous aspect of this new
funding will be its use against people not for criminal behavior but for
LEGAL political activities that are opposed by the ruling elite.

You really have to ask why each of these agencies need their own
military-style trained SWAT teams.  Each of these policing agencies
will compete on a yearly basis for ever more funding to "combat terrorism".
That kind of competition will strongly discourage the kind of "coordinated,
cooperative" set of activities that are required to address such a complex
topic. They will use as measuring sticks goals given them by those on high.
Consider the BATF's most important measuring stick for this year is to
reduce the number of legally licensed gun dealers around the US. The
president has demanded it. So the BATF will use anti-terrorism money
to drive a political agenda by putting many honest business people out
of business. I suppose if you're a gun hater this doesn't bother you. But
as these agencies expand their base and power the chance of you or 
your loved ones being directly and negatively affected by their mistakes and/or
abuses rapidly grows.

I don't know about you, but as a law abiding citizen of this country the
anti-terrorism bill DOESN'T make me feel "safer" or "better". I feel like
WE THE PEOPLE were just raped again with many saying "ahhh, that
FEELS better".

    
    Does the `anti-terrorist' bill contain a provision to limit appeals
    in capital cases?
    

re: .58

The Senate version does.

The House version contains a amendment that declares any gun crime other than
robbery, as a terrorist act.

Bob

Tuesday, November 7, 1995 7 Page A18
)1995 San Francisco Chronicle
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Reform Federal Cops -- Don't Expand Wiretaps

    IF ANYTHING HAS been learned from the catastrophic government assaults
    on the Branch Davidians in Texas and the Weaver family in Idaho, it is
    that the authority of federal law enforcement agencies must be reigned
    in, reformed and closely supervised.

    Congressional hearings on both tragedies revealed a dangerous pattern
    of arrogance, paranoia and possibly illegal behavior by gun- toting
    federal agents, backed by tanks and helicopters, who left more than 80
    dead in Waco and two innocent members of the Weaver family dead at Ruby
    Ridge.

    Conflicting testimony by federal officials and the refusal to testify
    by five FBI agents during the Ruby Ridge hearings only added to the
    perception of unfettered federal law enforcement agencies.

    With this as the recent background, the FBI is now seeking a new,
    national wiretapping system that would expand the government's
    eavesdropping capacity far beyond its current ability or needs.

    FBI Director Louis J. Freeh argues that the court-ordered wiretaps are
    the most effective investigative technique and ``without this law,
    adequate funding and reasonable technical solutions, the nation's
    public safety and national security are un questionably jeopardized.''

    Horsefeathers!

    The huge potential expansion of surveillance makes telephone industry
    executives wonder why the FBI needs such access to private phone
    conversations. The plan has also sent a frisson through privacy
    advocates fearful of more Big Brother-style prying.

    Congress still must approve more than $500 million to finance the plan,
    and court warrants would still be required, but the mere proposal
    suggests the government believes the American public cannot be trusted
    and must be carefully observed. Critics argue that such a new
    generation of wiretap technology would encourage law-enforcement
    officials to greatly expand their use of electronic surveillance.

    ``This proposal would dramatically reduce the privacy rights in the
    United States because it would . . . result in a significant increase
    in the number of innocent third- party conversations intercepted by law
    enforcement officials,'' said Laura W. Murphy, of the American Civil
    Liberties Union.

    In an unrelated, but coincidental development, California has a new
    law, effective on Jan. 1, 1996, that will expand police authority to
    wiretap cellular phones and digital pagers.

    As technology advances, so does the potential for police abuses and
    infringements of individual rights at all levels.

    We join the advocates of liberty and privacy in urging Congress to view
    the FBI's proposed high-tech wiretapping scheme with gimlet eyes, and
    to withhold financing at least until a serious threat to the republic
    is demonstrated.

Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 10:29:40 -0400
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Beware Power Grab


BEWARE POWER GRAB

By

Clark Mathews
Technology & Liberty Column
THE SPOTLIGHT
pg 10
24 July 95


It appears the FBI investigation of the Oklahoma City bombing has
not been going very well.  Federal prosecutors have requested
delays and extensions to keep the bombing suspects imprisoned so
the government can develop enough evidence to obtain indictments.
None of these questions has prevented the leadership of both
political parties in Congress from falling all over themselves to
approve extremely dangerous, so-called "counter-terrorism"
legislation.

At the heart of virtually all this proposed legislation are
systems for massive domestic surveillance and control of
Americans' lives, jobs, families, friends, assets, transactions
and movements.

Also contained in the House bill, H.R.1710, are provisions to pay
for the surveillance system with property seizures and surcharges
- not constitutional appropriations by Congress. And this
headlong rush down the slippery slope into a total surveillance
state is happening despite the disarray in the bombing
investigation, court delays and grave doubts by millions of
Americans about the progress and direction of the Oklahoma
bombing investigation.

NEW TECHNOLOGY

Now there is evidence the Federal Oklahoma investigation has
already started using these new technologies to develop a
terrorist "conspiracy" case from the records of 66,000 telephone
calls.

It sounds like the worst kind of guilt-by-association, but they
don't seem troubled.  Perhaps they like it because it could be a
highly profitable exercise, allowing federal authorities to
"solve" the crime, silence their critics, and seize millions of
dollars for use in rapidly expanding these grotesque new
telephone-snooping systems, all at the same time.

Take a good look at what is happening before your eyes, in
America, under the Clinton administration and it's masters.
Today.

MAKING QUESTIONS GO AWAY

H.R.1710 is the key "counter-terrorism" legislation now before
the House.  It appears designed to make the annoying questions
about the Oklahoma bombing provocation "go away."  They could 
even be used to make critics of the Clinton administration and
both political parties "go away" too.  Maybe that explains the 
rush to pass them. If these bills aren't stopped in the House,
rapid roundups of the administration's political opponents and 
independent journalists, investigators and thinkers could quickly
follow.

These bills allow Attorney General Janet Reno to seize the assets
of troublesome, uncooperative people like these - in civil
proceedings - to pay for the telephone surveillance system.
Under H.R.1710, she can get the money she needs and silence the
opposition at the same time.

TECHNOLOGY OF TERROR

It looks like Americans are about to see a frightful preview of
the power of this technology, as federal investigators use it to
create an Oklahoma "conspiracy" from the telephone calls of
thousands of citizens.  Law or no law, federal investigators have
already rolled out their high-tech "big gun" to find a "terror
conspiracy" to solve the Oklahoma City bombing case.

The federal government's secret weapon is a highly specialized
computer database that uses very large amounts of telephone data
to discover "who knows whom."

This is a key part of the sinister telephone surveillance
technology that the administration wants legalized by the so-
called "counter-terrorism" bills now before Congress.

In a major lapse of Establishment "truth control," the June 3
issue of the Washington Post revealed how the FBI is using it's
specialized computer databases and telephone records from across
the country.  According to the agents and specialists quoted in
the Post article, the new equipment has already been used "to
establish more than 66,000 calls made by [chief suspect Timothy]
McVeigh, [unindicted suspect Terry] Nichols, and other
associates.  These calls were punched into the database, allowing
investigators to sort for patterns.

Wait a minute:  66,000 telephone calls?  Made by two people and
their "associates?"  How many "associates" do these guys have?
And the Post article continues, explaining how - since these
thousands of unfortunate people have now been "associated" with
the accused Oklahoma bomber - their assets, property and credit
records are being checked.  To establish how much these folks are
worth.  Under H.R.1710, the FBI won't even need a warrant to
obtain this information.

Consider the immense amount of data indicated by the Washington
Post's stupendous gaffe.  The 66,000 records were extracted from
a much greater number of telephone records from across the
country.  And these 66,000 victims - pardon me, telephone calling
records - were "punched into a database."

Baloney.

The 66,000 records were automatically loaded into the database
within a few minutes.  Why, I bet the database is a highly
specialized, "large sparse" system prototyped in the 1970's.  It
might even be capable of holding the telephone numbers of
everyone in the United States.  It could have the logic to link
addresses, family members and assets to every telephone number in
the database.  It could even update itself automatically by
running financial profiles on every "terrorist associate" it
finds; or every person in the database.

Starting to see the danger?  Stop H.R.1710 and all "counter-
terrorism" travesties in Congress.

    
    I had heard that the house of reps had already taken the teeth out of 
    H.R.1710 due to intense lobbying from the NRA.  I can't remember most
    of the details.  They took the "fertilizer marker" provision out, I'll
    try to find out what else was taken out of it to date and post it
    tonight.

                        NRA-ILA FAX ALERT
           11250 Waples Mill Road * Fairfax, VA  22030
            Phone: 1-800-392-8683 * Fax: 703-267-3918
Vol. 3, No. 11                                            3/15/96
                                 
                  TERRORISM BILL PASSES HOUSE 

     This week, the U.S. House of Representatives passed H.R.
2703, its version of anti-terrorism legislation.  The bill
focuses on implementing an effective death penalty for terrorist
acts, partly by ending abuses of the right to writs of habeas
corpus (a right rarely involved in firearms cases).  NRA supports
this ancient right -- but like most Americans, favors limiting
abuses in which convicted murderers file writ after writ to avoid
execution for decades.  

     The highlight of the week's action was when two years of
hard work by NRA paid off as key amendments were adopted
addressing widespread concerns about expanded federal law
enforcement authority.

     The first was offered by pro-gun Rep. Bob Barr (R-Ga.), and
addressed key civil liberties and Second Amendment concerns.  The
Barr Amendment

     * deleted provisions of the original legislation that would
     have given the government new powers to investigate non-criminal 
     activity;

     * preserved current protections against widespread,
     unreviewed wiretapping; 

     * blocked the use of secret evidence to deprive persons of
     their liberty; 

     * deleted the language allowing punishment of gun sellers
     who "should have known" a gun would be used in crime. 
     (Under existing law, prosecutors have to prove beyond a
     reasonable doubt that the seller knew the gun would be used
     in crime);

     * blocked study of putting potentially dangerous "taggants"
     in black and smokeless powder; and

     * changed the proposed "armor-piercing ammunition" study --
     from a study that might have provided easy grounds for the
     Clinton Administration to push a "performance-based" bullet
     ban, to one that will reveal the truth.  That truth is, in
     the last decade, no law enforcement officer has been killed
     because a projectile fired from a handgun penetrated the
     protective material of a bullet-resistant vest.  The study
     will also reveal that law-abiding gun owners' rights would
     be seriously undermined by a "performance-based" ammunition
     ban.

     Despite heavy pressure from fellow Republicans, including
House Judiciary Committee Chairman Henry Hyde (R-Ill.), Rep. Barr
stood fast in his insistence that the government not be given
"vast new powers."  The NRA told the Congress that, without
Barr's amendment, NRA would oppose the bill.  The Congress
responded to this legitimate call -- and passed the Barr
Amendment on a bipartisan vote of 246-171.

     That majority did not include Rep. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.),
who did not miss a chance to bash NRA during the debate by
calling our civil liberties concerns "tortured fantasies."  Nor
did supporters include President Clinton and Attorney General
Janet Reno, who claimed Barr's pro-civil liberties amendment had
"gutted" the bill.  When the likes of Charles Schumer and Janet
Reno complain that their provisions were "gutted," you can be
assure that these are the kinds of provisions gun owners DON'T
want in legislation!

     The House also passed an amendment by Rep. Roscoe Bartlett
(R-Md.), which would create a blue-ribbon commission to help
restore public confidence in federal law enforcement agencies by
looking into past abuses and recommending solutions to any
problems.  This is the very commission NRA has been urging for
two long years. The Commission will also evaluate various aspects
of these agencies to ensure professionalism, coordination and
accountability. 

     The addition of those amendments earned NRA's support for
what had started out as a very bad bill; the bill now goes to a
conference committee to iron out the differences between the
House and Senate versions.  That conference will also, we expect,
eliminate the frivolously anti-gun amendment added by anti-gun
Rep. Rosa DeLauro (D-Conn.), increasing criminal sentences for
the use of laser sights in a crime.  It's time that Congress stop
attacking new technology -- especially when Congressman Schumer
"joked" that he wouldn't mind banning the devices themselves! 
And NRA will continue to strongly urge the conferees to stick
with the House version -- and to avoid any encroachments on civil
liberties.

     In the meantime, NRA members owe a debt of gratitude to
Reps. Barr and Bartlett, and to all their colleagues who
supported their amendments.  We'll keep you posted!

                       3/14/96 Toughen
anti-terrorism laws, limit death row appeals

House Approves Crime, Anti-Terror Bill

The House approved a watered-down crime and anti-terrorism bill
March 14 that drew fire from an unusual coalition of liberal Democrats
and conservative Republicans. 

The GOP-sponsored measure passed 229 to 191. Fifty-eight
Republicans, mostly conservative freshmen, voted against the bill, as did
a number of liberal Democrats. 

The measure, which began as a response to last year's Oklahoma City
bombing, would strengthen statutes that allow federal law enforcement
officials to combat domestic and international terrorism. It would also
limit the number of habeas corpus appeals by death row prisoners to
federal courts. 

The bill also would require federal courts to order convicted criminals to
pay restitution to their victims, ease the government's ability to deport
criminal aliens, and ban most forms of material support that is
knowingly given to, or received from, nations or foreign organizations
designated as terrorist by the Secretary of State. 

Many of the bill's tougher anti-terrorism measures, however, were
stripped from the legislation in a vote March 13. 

Proponents hailed the measure as an effective compromise between the
need to guarantee civil liberties and the need to combat terrorism. 

"The challenge of a free society is to have a government strong enough
to protect us from danger but carefully enough constrained to itself not
be a danger," said House Speaker Newt Gingrich of Georgia. 

Liberal opponents of the measure objected to the habeas provisions,
while some conservatives complained that the bill would give federal law
enforcement authorities too much power. 

President Clinton, speaking to reporters aboard Air Force One as he
returned from an anti-terrorism conference in the Middle East, described
the bill as too weak to do much good. He said he hoped it would be
strengthened when it's reconciled with a tougher version passed by the
Senate. 

--By Eileen Simpson, CQ Staff Writer 

Copyright Congressional Quarterly Inc. 

    I understand Representative Connie Mack from Florida and Representative
    Lieberman of Connecticut are putting forth a bipartisan bill declaring 
    May 14th as "Speak No Evil Day".  This will make May 14th an official
    day of no talebearing, no backbiting, and the striving for cordiality
    and friendship.
    
    While I see the tenets as quite admirable, there is no bill that can 
    help us overcome the human condition.
    
    The communist had a stranglehod on Yugoslavia for years.  Once it
    lightened up, the factions went at it again...just as they had done in
    years past!