Conference back40::soapbox

    Japan Winds Up Its Mission in Zaire / 
    First troops sent overseas under their own command 


    Keith B. Richburg 

    Goma, Zaire 

    Enter the Japanese military camp situated among Goma's squalid refugee
    camps,  and your shoes are sprayed with disinfectant by a soldier
    fitted with a yellow tank on his back.  Fresh vegetables and meat are
    flown in on Japanese air force C-130 transport planes from Nairobi,
    prepared  Japanese style, then served in a spotless mess tent. 

    After dinner, troops can call home twice a week on satellite phones or
    relax at  the ``Goma Hot Springs,'' a traditional Japanese bathhouse
    constructed in tents complete with slippers lined  up at the entrance,
    potted plants and a view of Goma's Nyiragongo volcano as a scenic
    backdrop through an  opening. 

    The 260-man Japanese military contingent is served in style. It is the
    last  foreign military unit assisting more than 1 million Rwandan Hutus
    who fled to Zaire in July after the takeover  of their country by the
    Tutsi-dominated Rwandan Patriotic Front. 

    The operation is considered a first for Japan, an economic powerhouse
    still  feeling its way to a larger political role -- the first time
    Japanese troops have been dispatched overseas  for a humanitarian
    mission under their own command. 

    Japanese troops assisted in Cambodia and Mozambique, but both of those
    missions  were defined as peacekeeping operations under a U.N. command,
    and the Japanese were given a  limited role in areas considered safe
    and protected by troops from other nations. 

    After three months in Goma, the Japanese now are leaving -- they are
    due home  before the end of the year -- but their officers hope their
    brief tour has advanced an image of Japan  in a little-known corner of
    this poor continent. 

    ``When I arrived here, I asked, `Do you know Japan?' and they said yes,
    because  they know Toyotas . . . and other products made in Japan,''
    said U.N. refugee official Yoshio Nagawa,  who laid the groundwork for
    the arrival. ``But they never saw the face of a Japanese.'' 

    That has changed. 

    Japan's military doctors at the Goma hospital treat about 50 patients
    each day.  Its military engineers are building a drainage system at one
    refugee camp, and its volcanologists have  installed five monitoring
    stations around nearby volcanoes. 

    ``Our mission is to conduct this operation successfully,'' said Colonel 
    Mitsunobu Kamimoto, the Japanese commander here. ``If our operation
    succeeds, Japan will conduct more  humanitarian operations.'' 

    The mission was made possible after the U.N. High Commissioner for
    Refugees,  Sadako Ogata, made an impassioned appeal during a one-week
    vacation in her native Japan that Tokyo  assist in the Rwandan crisis
    not simply with money but with manpower. 

    ``Without Mrs. Ogata, I don't think the Japanese Self-Defense Force
    would have  been mobilized for this type of activity,'' said Nagawa, a
    U.N. refugee agency officer in Tokyo who is  in Zaire to act as liaison
    between the Japanese troops and international relief agencies. 

    But as in the two previous cases when Japanese troops went overseas,
    this  mission has attracted controversy back home, particularly among
    lawmakers and others who see in it a  heightened military role and a
    possible violation of Japan's postwar ``peace'' constitution. 

    But the Japanese have faced no conflict, although they, like other
    relief  workers, say gunfire is heard nightly. ``Sometimes near this
    camp, we hear rifles, even hand grenades,'' said  the press officer,
    Major Katsuyuki Kamiguchi. ``In the night, it's very dangerous.'' 

JAPAN
=====

Alibu City			Kobe
o ??? 				S Junior 		TOGO Japan, Inc.	1993

Ayameike Yuen
o ???				S Loop, Corkscrew	TOGO Japan, Inc.	1983

Dakarazuka Amusement Park
o Miracle Coaster		S Family		Meisho			1994
 
Dreamland			Nara
o Screw Coaster 		S Corkscrew		Arrow Development Co.	1979

Expoland			Osaka
o Space Salamander		S Loop, Corscrew	Arrow Development Co.	1980
o Kamikaze			S Twin Track		???			19??
o ???				S 5-track Racer		???			19??
o ???				S Stand-up		TOGO Japan, Inc.	1992

Fantasy Dome			Tomakomai
o Bandit 			S Enclosed 		TOGO Japan, Inc.	1990
o Crazy Mouse			S Wild Mouse		TOGO Japan, Inc.	1994
 
Fujikyu Highlands
o Mad Mouse			S Mad Mouse		???			19??
o Giant Coaster			S Twister		Sansei			1965
o Double Loop			S Double Loop		Meisho Co., Ltd.	19??
o Moonsault Scramble		S Shuttle		Meisho Co., Ltd.	1988
o ???				S Enclosed		TOGO Japan, Inc.	1988

Funabashi Health Center	
o ???				S ???			TOGO Japan, Inc. 	1961

Geopolis (Tokyo Dome Korakue-n)	Tokyo
o Geopanic 			S Enclosed		TOGO Japan, Inc. 	1992

Glucks Konigreich		Hokkaido
o TBA				S Suspended Looping	Vekoma Intl. b.v.	1995*			New-4-95

Hakkejima Sea Paradise
o Surf Coaster			S Twister		TOGO Japan, Inc. 	1993
 
Hanayashiki			Asakusa
o Roller Coaster		S Junior Out and Back 	TOGO Japan, Inc.	1953

Himeji Park			Himeji 
o TBA				S Inverted		B & M			1995*			New-4-95
		 
Ikoma Sanjo			Nara
o Ultra Twister			S Spin-Rotating		TOGO Japan, Inc.	1993
 
Itozu Yuen
o Diving Shooter		S Flume/coaster		TOGO Japan, Inc.	1993

Joypolis			Yokohama
o Rail Chaise the Ride		S Enclosed Multi-track	???			19??

Kagoshima Jungle Park
o ???				S ???			TOGO Japan, Inc.	1982

Koraku-en			Tokyo
(o ???				S Shuttle		Arrow Development Co.	1980/19??)		MIA (Re-located ?)
o Ultra Twister			S Spin-rotating		TOGO Japan, Inc.	19??
o Jet Coaster			S Enclosed		TOGO Japan, Inc.	1992

Minamichita Beach Land
o ???				S SL Coaster		TOGO Japan, Inc.	1989

Mitsui Greenland		Kyushu
o Double Stand-up 		S Stand-up/Sit-down 	TOGO Japan, Inc.	1990/1991
o Ultra Twister			S Spin-rotating		TOGO Japan, Inc.	1993
 
Mukagacka Yuen
o Dios 				S Themed Outdoor	TOGO Japan, Inc. 	1992

Nagashima Spaland		Kuwana-Gun Mie
o Corkscrew			S Corkscrew		Arrow Development Co.	1979
o White Cyclone			W Twister		Starkey/Intamin Japan	1994
    
Nasu Highland
o Lightning Coaster 		S Twister		Meisho Co., Ltd.	1990
o TBA				S Suspended Looping	Meisho/Vekoma Intl b.v. 1995*			New-4-95

Natalie Park			Hiroshima
o Coaster			S Twister		???			19??

Navel Land			Kyusyu
o TBA				S Mine Train		Zierier			1995*			New-4-95
o TBA				S Junior Twister 	Zierier			1995*			New-4-95

Nippon Space World		Kitakyushu, Japan
o Space Coaster 		S Enclosed		???			1990
 
Nishi-Nihon Korakuen		Kijima
o Jupiter 			W Twister		Intamin/Summers		1993			Japan's 1st Woodie!

Portopialand Park		Kure
o Bobsled 			S Bobsled		Mack			1991
o Bavarian Mountain Railroad	S Terrain		Zierer/Schwarzkopf	1992 			(1987?)
 
Seibu-en
o ???				S ???			TOGO Japan, Inc.	1966
o Loop-Screw			S Loop, Corkscrew	TOGO Japan, Inc.	1985

Shima Spanish Village
o TBA				S Family		Mack GmbH & Co.		1994

Space World			Kitakyushu-shi
o Titan				S Mod. Out-and-Back	Arrow Dynamics, Inc.	1994

Summerland			Tokyo
o ???				S Enclosed		TOGO Japan, Inc.	1966
o Tornado			S Loop, Corkscrew	Vekoma Intl. b.v.	1986
o Hayabusa (Falcon)		S Suspended		Arrow Dynamics, Inc.	1992
 
Tokushima Amusement Park	Tokushima
o Kiddy Roller Coaster  	S Junior		TOGO Japan, Inc.	1991

Tokyo Disneyland		Tokyo
o Space Mountain		S Enclosed		Vekoma Intl. b.v.	1983
o Big Thunder Mountain Railroad S Mine Train		Vekoma Intl. b.v.	1983
o Gadget's Go-Coaster		S Junior Twister	Vekoma Intl. b.v.	1995*			New-4-95

Toshima-en
o Cyclone			S Out-and-Back		TOGO Japan, Inc.	1965
o Loop Coaster			S Shuttle		Intamin AG/Schwarzkopf	19??
o Corkscrew			S Corkscrew		Arrow Development Co.	1980

Washyuzan Hiland		Okayama
o Ultra Twister 		S Spin-Rotating		TOGO Japan, Inc.	1991
 
Yagiyama Benyland
o Corkscrew			S Corkscrew		Arrow Development Co.	1979
o Cyclone			S Mine Train		Arrow Dynamics, Inc.	1988

Yatsu-Uen Park
o Corkscrew			S Corkscrew		Arrow Development Co.	1977

Yoshinogawa Yuen
o ???				S Junior		TOGO Japan, Inc.	1991

Yomiuriland			Inagi-shi (Tokyo)
o ???				S ???			TOGO Japan, Inc.	1966
o Loop Coaster			S Multi-element 	TOGO Japan, Inc. 	1979
o Bandit			S Terrain		TOGO Japan, Inc.	1988
o SL Coaster			S ???			TOGO Japan, Inc.	1988
o ??? (Racer)			S Stand-up/Sit-down     TOGO Japan, Inc.	1991
o White Canyon 			W Twister		TOGO Intl., Inc./RCCA	1994

    
      Always been impressed by the Japanese.  The effort.  The secrecy.
     The attention to detail.  The bravery.  The minimalism.  The ability
     to listen.  The discipline.
    
      I wish America could learn something from them.  No, we can't be
     the same, and shouldn't want to be.  But we could be better than
     we are if we imported some of this.
    
      imho, bb
    

    A haiku for the occasion:
    
    Japan, sitting east,
    eats Yankee marketplace whole,
    as US croaks, ah!

    
    The Japanese will eventually form a Pacific Area Free Trade Agreement.
    I'm sure they'll include China, their old nemesis.  

    Good thing it wasn't Pacific Origin Free Trade Agreement. They never
    would have been taken seriously.

    Glenn

The emperor is 61 years old on December 23,   What do you know
about him?  What's your views?   Note that the Shouwa Emperor died 
six years ago.

_Tak

RE:210.7 by TKTVFS::NEMOTO "no facts, only interpretations"

Domo ari gotto _Tak-san,

Please pardon my poor attempt at Japanese,  and welcome to Soapbox. 

I know that the emperor is a first class scientist,  and I wish him a happy
birthday.  


Phil

    i miss hat-son.

    hat-son CRAP, it'll be YOU we abandoned ones'll be missing soon enuf.
    
    But 'tis true, Hatashita was a true original.  And one of the few
    'Boxers funnier than you, Haag.  ymmv.
    
    |-{:-)
    

    .6
    
    At least not by our limeys.
    
    ;^)

>and welcome to Soapbox. 

Oh, I'm in THE Soapbox. ;-)   I don't read in so often.  
My English is not so good - I hope you guys not bite me off every single word. 


Enough said, another food for thoughts.  

Guns are illegaly owned, and used by YAKUZA or that sort of people in 
struggles for the leadership or interests.  So, "casualties" are also among 
them.

That may, however, be no longer true..  Reportedly, there were 2,048
gunshot events this year.  Of 38 persons shot to death, 12 were citizens, 
while 10 other citizens injured.  Some other numbers this year: of 1,733 
guns confiscated (seized?), 503 were from non-YAKUZA (citizens) that accounts 
for 30%.  It seems that guns are spreading slowly beyond the wall.

Rumor has it that the selling price of a gun ranges from 200,000YEN to
1,000,000YEN -- "scarcity value" to say the least.

_Tak
Ps. Guns in Japan usually mean handguns.  

    It seems like handguns are a commodity for the wealthy over there, 
    if I remember my exchange rates as being approximately 100Y to the
    dollar, that means handguns go for 2 to 10 thousand dollars over there. 
    Quite a bit of a "markup" from the "normal" range of $250 to $500 for a 
    .22 or 9 mm semi-auto, .38 or .357 magnum over here. Premium brands like 
    S&W and Colt are about 50% higher. 
    
    
    Japan is the source of about 90% of the ham radio equipment in the
    world, the rest comes from smaller US and European specialty companies.
    I have been in the ham radio hobby for about 15 years and the business
    (HRO and others) for about five, so I thought i'd give it a mention.
    
    
    
    
    

    The following article reflects one perspective of the internal debate
    within the Japanese government on the regulatory public policy issue,
    written earlier this month.
    
    DougO
    -----
    We need a decision for deregulation

    Ichiro Shirakawa, Deputy director-general of research at Japan's
    Economic Planning Agency



    The debate on the need for deregulation in Japan has been brewing for
    nearly a  decade. In recent years and especially since reformists outed
    the long-ruling Liberal  Democratic Party and held power from mid-1993
    to mid-1994 deregulation has been elevated to  a major policy theme.
    Yet few would argue this development has yielded much in  practical
    terms. 

    The Japanese government will announce a 5-year deregulation package in
    March,and bold promises for concrete action are expected. It is not an
    exaggeration to say  that Japan's economy has come to a crossroads, and
    its future path depends on that  plan of action. 

    NO BASIS FOR A CAUTIONS APPROACH 

    Nobody disputes that consumers would benefit from hacking away at the
    country's regulatory barrier patch. With the removal of restrictions to
    allow low-priced  imports to flow into the Japanese market in greater
    volume, prices for all goods would fall  and consumer choice would
    expand. 

    Some argue, however, the need of a cautious approach when it comes to 
    deregulating the economy and industry in practice. The basis for this
    argument is the  potential impact on employment.To be sure, if certain
    government rules and protectionist measures supporting industry were
    abolished,it would mean job losses for some people  employed in the
    targeted sectors. 

    But to oppose deregulation by overstating this point is a mistake, The
    job  losses, most likely a short-term effect, should be accepted as the
    pain of forward-looking  adjustment.

    Recognizing this becomes all the more important, given today's
    situation in  which Japan must promote a dynamic international division
    of labor with its Asia neighbors.  As Asia rapid economic development,
    a shift in Japan's industrial structure toward  production of
    high-value added goods is unavoidable. As for the worsening in
    short-term  employment picture, Japan had better prepare for the
    necessary costs of this adjustment. 

    USING THE DOMESTIC-FOREIGN PRICE GAP AS A STANDARD 

    There is a plan that calls for setting targets to reduce uniformly the
    number of  regulations over which government ministries and agencies
    have jurisdiction, but I'm afraid  it may turn out that authorities set
    deregulatory targets themselves.In the end, the  standard for
    deregulation should take into account the gain for consumers, based on 
    correcting the difference between prices for goods in Japan and the
    correspondingly lower price abroad. That is because the gap is a mirror
    reflecting the existence of barriers  limiting free competition. A key
    approach to correcting the price gap is strengthening the  application
    of antitrust laws along with deregulation. In Japan's case, beefing up 
    enforcement of antitrust laws would involve raising the weight of
    indirect regulation under the  Japan Fair Trade Commission's
    jurisdiction to cover 70-80 pct of the economy's output while keeping
    the weight of direct regulation by the government at a level to GNP not 
    to exceed 20-30 pct of GNP. 

    BLAMING BUREAUCRATS ONLY IS WRONG 

    If broad deregulation dose not happen, many people will blame the
    bureaucrats  for trying to cling to administrative powers to regulate
    and approve. But this, in my view,  is not necessarily fair. 

    The amending of Japan's large-scale store law, for example, was
    implemented by  the Ministry of International Trade and Industry in
    order to liberalize the  distribution system and make it more
    efficient. Make no mistake, this is one of the big reason for  today's
    "price revolution." Indeed, to evaluate such things fairly we must base
    our  judgment on reality. 

    Of course there is plenty of room for bureaucrats to change their ways,
    too, but  at the same time industrial circles must reform the cozy
    corporate practices which have  come under much public criticism. The
    duty of recognizing failures in the system that  inhibit free
    competition rests with everyone the government, private enterprise,
    households. 

    We have already spent too much time merely discussing deregulation
    issues.  Practical steps, bold ones of lasting value, are needed.
    Deregulation represents a choice  for the vitality of Japan's higher
    the costs we all must pay. 

(12/12/94)



    Ichiro Shirakawa, Deputy director-general of research at Japan's
    Economic  Planning Agency 



    Ichiro SHIRAKAWA 

    Born in 1943 in Kagawa Prefecture. In 1968 he entered the Economic
    Planning  Agency. After taking office he became a first secretary in
    the Japanese mission to the  OECD at the Foreign Ministry, the Director
    of Distribution Sector Office at the Fair  Trade Commission, Director
    of the Business Statistics Research Division,the Director  of Price
    Policy Division at the Economic Planning Agency, and Deputy Director
    General of Research at the Economic Planning Agency in July of 1994. 

    Reference: 'Difference in Prices Between the Domestic and Foreign
    Countries:  Another Problem on the Issue of Price.' By Ichiro
    Shirakawa. Published by  Chuo-Koron-Sha, October, 1994. 

    The following article, as several others I've posted today (two in the
    cartoons topic on the Kimba/Lion King issue, and one earlier in the
    Japan topic) are from the online news service called "Shima Media
    Network", which appears to be a leading industrialist's propaganda
    newsletter.  It covers international and internal Japanese political
    and economic issues with a Japanese perspective, in English.  Very
    useful...websurfers see http://www.eccosys.com/SMN/
    
    This article discusses a recent mainstream publication editorial
    calling for the abolition of the very politically connected Ministry of
    Finance.
    
    DougO
    -----
    The Ministry of Finance is Unnecessary

    Hajime Takano, INSIDER editor in chief



    More Talk of Disbanding the Ministry of Finance 

    On November 24th the 'Nihon Kezai Shimbun' made an unusual move 
    (particularly for such a staid publication) by vigorously attacking the
    Ministry  of Finance. In an editorial entitled, 'Is the Ministry of
    Finance Banking Bureau Necessary?'  the paper stated there is a choice
    between 'protecting the organization of the Ministry of  Finance
    Banking Bureau and let banking deteriorate, or reforming the political
    structure  and in a way that would revive banking. The path to take is
    quite clear.' On the heels of  this editorial, the 'Shukan Toyo Keizai'
    made a similar suggestion in its December  3rd issue (which went on
    sale at the end of November). A feature entitled 'Break Up the 
    Ministry of Finance' suggested that the Ministry should be split four
    ways. In addition,  the coalition government's political reform project
    team (headed by Akio Nakajima), which is handling the matter of
    revamping special incorporations, revealed research  results which
    showed that the Ministry of Finance had the most retirees going to
    special  incorporations. Fifty retirees moved to 42 incorporated
    entities. The Ministry of Finance (which  has jurisdiction over only
    three incorporations) has far more retirees in special  incorporations,
    even more than the Ministry of International Trade and Industry. The
    reason is  that the Ministry of Finance is using its authority to
    divide up budgets and finance  funds in a way that spreads its power to
    the incorporations which are under the jurisdiction of  other
    ministries. In this way the Ministry of Finance presents the main
    obstacle to  political reform. 

    The Sins of the Ministry of Finance 

    In the featured article in the Toyo Kezai, Takahiro Miyao (a  professor
    at Tsukuba University) lists the sins of the Ministry of Finance as 
    follows: 

    1. The Ministry of Finance made mistakes in directing the economy from
    the end  of the 1980's, making the depression more serious than it
    should be. 

    2. The Ministry of Finance, as a direct consequence of error cited
    above, is  having trouble handling the credit of banks which have gone
    under. There is no sign  that this problem will be solved. 

    3. The stock market cannot get out of the deep rut it is now in. 

    4. The Ministry of Finance cannot handle the rapid internationalization
    of money  and stocks. The reason is that the Budget Bureau and the Tax
    Bureau are geared up to handle only internal matters, and since these
    are central in the Ministry this  is causing a hollowing out in
    financial circles. 

    5. The Ministry of Finance has 'tunnel vision' concerning finances and
    taxation.  And, concerning the matter of raising the consumption tax,
    it started off from the  conclusion that such a tax would be a
    fail-safe way of generating revenue, without giving  due consideration
    to fundamental questions of how taxation should be conducted. 

    How To Do Away With Power Centralization in the Budget Bureau 

    The Toyo Keizai states that the Budget Bureau's budget function, the
    Tax  Bureau's taxation function, the Finance Bureau's national holdings
    management and fund  handling functions, and the watchdog functions of
    the Banking Bureau and Securities  Bureau are all entangled. As a
    possible remedy the Toyo Keizai states that there should be  four
    separate functions, and that the Budget Bureau (which is said to know
    'all about  politics and nothing about finance') is spreading its
    jurisdiction over the other bureaus  and creating problems. The
    suggested solution is to make the following four  divisions: 

    1. Budget Bureau 

    2. Tax Bureau + National Tax Administration Agency 

    3. Banking Bureau + Securities Bureau + International Finance Bureau 

    4. Financial Bureau + Printing Bureau + Mint Bureau 

    The proposal also calls for a further revamping of some of these
    entities,  thereby reducing the amount of power which is centralized in
    the Budget bureau. 

    In addition, Miyao provides an argument for splitting up and
    dismembering the  Ministry of Finance which involves separating the
    Banking Bureau, Securities Bureau, and the International Finance 
    Bureau from the Ministry of Finance, and making this a Finance Agency. 

    Banking administration would then be left up to the Bank of Japan and
    insurance mechanisms to protect the depositors and handle securities
    would be relegated to independent committees (such as the Securities
    Exchange Commission in the US).  This would do away with the Ministry
    of Finance, and would take the function of  planning and presenting
    bills on budgetsand taxation away from the Budget Bureau and Tax 
    Bureau. This function would be given over the Cabinet. The bureaus
    would only be  responsible for carrying out the actual policies. 

    A Full Financial Mobilization System Is No Longer Needed 

    The fact that the Ministry of Finance had all authority concerning
    budgets and  taxes played a great role in Japan's modernization and its
    development into an  industrialized nation. This is especially true in
    light of the fact that Japan was still  predominantly an agricultural
    society even after the Meiji Era (the number of 'primary industry' 
    employees fell below fifty percent for the first time in 1930). The
    Ministry of Finance  took land taxes from these farms and put that
    money into city building and industrial  development. But the age of
    industry has passed (the number of 'third industry' employees  passed
    fifty percent in 1975). We are now in an information-service society,
    and further internationalization is no longer an option but an outright
    necessity. As a  result the role of the Ministry of Finance as a full
    financial mobilization system has outlived its  historical usefulness.
    Perhaps the Ministry of Finance, as its last role, could play a part 
    in the transformation of the tax system from a Shoup system, which is
    centered around  direct taxation, to an indirect taxation system fit
    for a service society. In reality,  however, the Ministry has lost even
    the  capability to make suggestions from a proper historical
    perspective, and instead  is interested only in immediate tax
    increases. 

    Breaking Up the Ministry of Finance is the Key to Localizing Power 

    The discussion about localizing power is reaching a crucial point, but
    the  government needs to stand firm in the knowledge that breaking up
    the Ministry of Finance is  the key to local distribution of power.
    These facts need to be considered together and  should be done in such
    a way that people are satisfied with the government's explanation.  It
    is not clear whether the arguments concerning the splitting up of power
    will lead to  things such as the establishment of prefectural States,
    or the formation of geographical  regions which have their own
    governments. In any case, it is clear there can be no  localization of
    power without breaking up the Ministry of Finance. If this isn't done,
    local  governments will not be able to exercise any control over their
    own finances or taxation. 

(12/3/94)



      Hajime Takano, INSIDER editor in chief

    	Japan suffered a fairly severe earthquake today. I don't have all
    the details yet.
    
    
    								S.R.

    Yo HAAG, 
    
    After reading .13 or so; Sounds like we need to get into the import
    export business..
    
    
    Sounds like a great place to introduce the 2nd... Gotta take
    care of the Yakuza's.
    
    
    Sin-te-da

    re -1
    
    yup.

>    It seems like handguns are a commodity for the wealthy over there, 
>    if I remember my exchange rates as being approximately 100Y to the
>    dollar, that means handguns go for 2 to 10 thousand dollars over there. 
>    Quite a bit of a "markup" from the "normal" range of $250 to $500 for a 
>    .22 or 9 mm semi-auto, .38 or .357 magnum over here. Premium brands like 
>    S&W and Colt are about 50% higher. 

Wealthy?   No.. 
It's just a magic of the exchange rates.

At any rate, after posting my reply, newsmadia said that YAKUZA had sold a 
handgun for 1,400,000YEN to a citizen who shot a doctor to death.  
The murderer had been a patient of the doctor.

_Tak

    KIlling a doctor with a $14000 gun,  
    Whatever happened to suing for medical malpractice, (forget it, the
    US has a monopoly on greedy lawyers ;^)
    
    What would be the penalty for this kind of crime over in Japan (I am 
    presuming that there is no death penalty)? In Florida it can be the 
    

    originally from 203.62, reposted per request:
    
    > For those who don't know about the Japanese character sets, we use
    > three  sets for writing: Hiragana, Katakana, Kanji.  Kanji is Chinese
    > origin.
    
    I thought 'Romaji' was considered a forth character set for writing
    Japanese, especially useful in ASCII environments.  For example, the
    words  Hiragana, Katakana, Kanji, and Romaji are all written in Romaji.
    
    DougO

re: .20  death penalty
    
I don't have an updated info about it.  Death penalty (the law) exists 
in Japan, though.


re: .21 (DougO)
Thanks for reposting.

Technically, yes.  It can be counted as a fourth character set.
But in our daily life, it's only a supplement.  

Romaji is a way to express "Nihongo" (aka, Japanese) with roman (characters).
I can think of only two examples right now where Romaji is used: Signs 
(direction) may be written in Romaji (eg, Tokyo) under Nihongo signs (eg, eh..
if I show it you'll get garbage charaters here on your display.. ) which may 
help visitors and those people who are not familier with Nihongo, otherwise 
you'll get lost ;-).  A computer input method is another example where Romaji 
may be used, since most of the terminals don't accept direct-input of Nihongo.  
We input words to a terminal in Romaji and then convert them into Nihongo.  

Historicaly, Romaji was first adopted in elementary schools during 1947.
It's been, however, considered as supplementary.  Nihongo in writing is an 
ideograph, a mixture set of Kanji, Hiragana, and Katakana.  Although 
sentences can be written in Romaji, it's very (I repeat, VERY) troublesome 
to read it one-by-one and to understand what's written.  So, in daily life, 
we seldom use it.  

_Tak

    
    Romaji is very useful to newcomers when taking the train or subway so you 
    know where the heck you are 8^).
    
    I can't tell you how many times I got on the express orange train to
    Chofu that didn't stop at Musashisakai because the appropriate word for
    "express" wasn't readable to me 8^p.

re: .23 

>    I can't tell you how many times I got on the express orange train to
>    Chofu that didn't stop at Musashisakai because the appropriate word for
>    "express" wasn't readable to me 8^p.

You are not alone.  The "expression" of "express" by one railway company 
differs from others, which is sometimes confusing me, too. ;-)

By the way, I know Musashisakai and Chofu.  The latter place is where I live
now for a while.  You never get to Musashisakai as long as you are heading for
Chofu, since they are on different railways. ;-)

Cheers,
_Tak

    
    No wonder I kept getting lost 8^).
    
    Where DOES that train go that I kept getting on that didn't stop at
    Musashisakai?  20 years has played hell with my memory 8^).

>    Where DOES that train go.......?

I should've put more ;-)'s..

The orange trains mean Chuuo-sen (Chuuo Line).  The Most heading for Takao.

"Express" trains stop at:
Shinjuku -> Nakano -------> Mitaka -> Kokubunji -> Tachikawa -> Hachioji ->Takao
                        ^                                         |
                        (Musashisakai)                            |
                                                                  +--> Other 
                                                                       Line
Some stations might be new to you.
As for Chofu, it's Keio-sen, departing from Shinjuku, too.

Cheers,
_Tak
Ps. if you would like to know about Chofu nowadays, send me mail.  

A powerful earthquake hit western Japan, ~5:40AM January 17 (JST).

As of noon (~6 hours before from now), a news on the TV here said:
	-  203 people killed
	- ~300 people missing
	- ~700 people injured

A news clip may be found in WOMANNOTES-V5, #37.348.   

_Tak

Major hit Kobe city and Awaji-shima(Island) and beyond including Osaka, Kyoto.

Disaster

Latest info (now), 

		1247 people killed
                1005 people missing
		3965 people injured
		9759 houses, buildings corrupted

		Fires 

_Tak

For the geographically challenged, Kobe is 25 miles from Osaka; Kyoto
is about 30 miles from Osaka and 50 miles from Kobe.

The region is about 275 miles from Tokyo.

/john

    
    I thought Japan had strict building codes, being on the faults and all.
    
    Word is the USA is offering disaster relief.  Good idea, but I wonder
    whether we can be of any use.
    
      bb

    
    
    My son Matthew's best friend at school moved here from Japan last
    year.  He still has quite a few relatives over there, which the family 
    has not been able to reach.  They were very upset when I dropped
    Matthew off there this morning. (He goes there to wait for the bus
    every morning.)  I had coffee with the boy's mother.  Before I left,
    we talked to the kids for a bit.  Matthew was very upset for his
    friend, but Steven seemed to be doing better.  He and Matthew had
    talked for a while about it, and about Japan.  
    
    I'm so glad I have such a good person for a son.  He's probably one of
    the most compassionate nine year olds I know.  I hope he can help
    Steven to get through all this.  I think he can.  The child has a heart
    of gold!
    
    Terrie, the proud mom. :*)
    

    We're going to send disaster relief to Japan, when we can't even cover
    our local disasters?  California most recently...to the tune of 29
    counties being declared disaster areas.
    
    Our relief fund is down to nil...or close to it.
    
    I didn't see Japan (or anyone else) offering us aid when hurricane
    Andrew pummeled Florida, or when our midwest flooded out, or when Calif
    had the earthquake a few years ago...or...or....  etc.
    
    
    -steve

    Don't get me wrong...I'm not against helping, it just seems like we are
    stretching ourselves a bit thin these days.  What happens if we have
    another high $$ disaster here?  (like the 14 billion for the the east
    coast hurricane)  Our disaster fund is at an all-time low.
    
    
    -steve

    I'd rather see US assistance going to Japan, than some of these other
    places that Klintoon and co. are dumping vast sums of money, and
    military manpower into, with no hope of any real returns.
    True, no other country has offered us aid after a disaster, even those
    we generously help out, but I suppose that's the price for being the
    big boy on the block...
    
    Building codes and heavy construction can only help reduce damage and
    injuries, they can't eliminate them.
    
    

    ...how much $$$$ do you think we'll offer them in consideration of
       their current tragedy?
    
       ...and should we?
    
       Chip

    
    
    Death toll from quake is over $3500.
    
    
    Anything sent from this country (IMHO) should be done in way of private
    contributions.
    
    
    Mike

US (Air?) Force at Yokota base is sending 37,000 blankets with C-130 
aircraft(s) to Japan Self Defence Force that then sends them to 
earthquake victims.

_Tak 

    I've never seen a death toll measured in dollars before.

    The cousin of a Digital employee was lost in the quake.  The girl was
    13 years old.  The parents heard her in the collapsed building and
    after a while the sounds stopped.
    
    It brings home with quite a shock what 3000 deaths really mean.
    
    On the BBC world service this morning there was an interview with a
    Japanese senator.  She was giving excuses why help was slow in reaching
    Kobe.  Supposedly the roads are clogged, the terrain is difficult and
    to get there one would have to walk.  This really puzzles me - what
    about helicopters?  Kobe is a major port, what about getting in by sea?
    
    Axel                                                               

    Well, if we've got enough money to give Mexico $40,000,000,000
    or whatever the exact figure is, then we probably have enough
    to help out Japan.  But is it really money that they need, or
    do they instead need supplies, transports, food, logistical
    help, and so on?
    
    Chris

    
    When the really big one hits the west coast someday. We may need
    their help.

    Question:  When we had our last several disasters, Hugo, Andrew, SF and
    LA quakes, Midwest floods, Midwest drought etc.  Did anyone come to our
    rescue?  Did anyone offer assistance?  I am looking for statistics or
    reported instances of aid other than from friends and family abroad. 
    BTW in case anyone is wondering, I think we should help the Japanese
    out regardless. 
    
    Brian 

>    
>    It brings home with quite a shock what 3000 deaths really mean.
>    

Toll is well over 4,000 by now, and heading rapidly towards 5,000.  21,000
injured, many still missing.

	We beseech thee, O Lord, mercifully to defend us and grant
	that the earth which by reason of our sins thou hast caused
	to tremble may by thy heavenly power be established in
	security; that the hearts of all men may see and know that
	the punishments which thou sendest of thy wrath are abated
	by the clemency of thy mercy.

    
    So, God caused the earthquake because the Japanese are sinners?
    
    

    rat hole....rat hole...rat hole...rat hole.

God caused the earthquake because we are sinners.

    I did it...I did it...I did it. Now can I go to hell?

    
    I admit it. My knee was jerking.
    
    

    Tectonic stress caused the earth quake, not Adam.

RE: 210.47 by COVERT::COVERT "John R. Covert"

> God caused the earthquake because we are sinners.

So then I'd guess you don't see any reason for the USGS trying to learn how
to predict earthquakes or volcanoes.  Zero that budget!


Phil

    .50
    
    well, yasee, ackshully, adam's sin torqued god off so much that he
    pitched a real big asteroid at the earth, and that made such a big bang
    that it broke up pangaea into laurasia and gondwanaland, and that was
    the start of plate tectonics.  the debris from this event is recorded
    in genesis as the rain of fire and brimstone on sodom and gomorrah.

You'd guess wrong.

We can do much to alleviate the problems of the world with technology, but
technology is only part of the solution.

/john

    .51
    
    > Zero that budget.
    
    no, we should redirect it to billy graham.  he's got god's ear, and he
    could argue with him the way abraham did about 50, or 40, or 30, or 20,
    or 10 righteous people.  he could give us the high sign when he started
    arguing, and if he argued long enough we'd have time to move people out
    of the area.

Far be it for me to turn the string back to a
secular discussion of Japan, but...

I've been mighty impressed by one aspect of the
country's culture, post-earthquake:  no looting.

RE: 210.53 by COVERT::COVERT "John R. Covert"

> You'd guess wrong.

Then I'll guess that you are going to write to your CongressCritters and 
complain about that part of the Republican budget plan?  


Phil

    By the same token:
    
    "The rain shall fall on the righteous as well as the unrighteous."
    
    I do believe God allows these things to happen as a wake up call!
    
    -Jack

    I've experienced plate tectonics in my dishwasher before, do you think I
    could get some-o-dat there funding?

    A wake up call for what? 
    
    "Hey get up! You have a city to rebuild! No time to lose!"

Why did Clinton send a "panel of experts" to
Japan?  To render an expert opinion such as,
"You have most definitely had a very huge
earthquake here.  Our expert advice is to
begin clean-up and rebuilding as soon as
possible"???

    
    RE: .55
    
    re: looting...
    
     My impression too....
    
    I was just thinking that if this happened here, would the police have
    the nads to shoot the (probable, alleged) looters?

    <---- Yes, they would.
    
    RE: God's own wake up call......
    
    You all forgot the IMOs and "I believe.."s. 
    
    Then again the really scary part is that the LA quake that hit the
    center of porn for the universe happened almost to the minute one year
    earlier!  It must be a warning, it must!  Pat Robertson told me so, yes
    he did.  
    
    Brian
    
    

Eiichi Ando
Salomon Brothers Asia Limited Tokyo Branch
Business Technology Organization - Production - Wide Area Network Group
Tel : +813-5255-5238  Fax: +813-5255-5585  E-mail : [email protected]

      TOKYO, Japan - The Southern Hyogo Prefecture Earthquake in
western Japan struck at 5:46 AM JST on January 17, 1995.  The quake
was the worst such disaster in Japan since 1948 and caused unexpected
deaths and destruction.  The following summary on the emergency from
the Inforum Project at GLOCOM was first compiled after one day of
local reports in Tokyo, and updated on January 20 from journalist and
academic sources as well as local interviews.  The death toll of over
four thousand was worse than first reported and damage estimates range
from 3-8 trillion yen ($30-80 billion).

         The Tuesday quake measured 7.2 on the Richter scale and 6 on
the Japanese scale that peaks at 7.  The epicenter was 12.5 miles under
the island of Awaji in the Inland Sea off the coast from Kobe, but the
worst destruction ran along a northeastern fault on the coast up from
the Kobe port to the Takarazuka area closer to Osaka.  Osaka, as
Japan's second largest city, and Kyoto and Shiga, further to the
northeast with extensive museums and temples, also reported extensive
damage from the quake.

        In Japan, all observers are shocked by the death and
destruction.  The National Police Agency reported 4047 confirmed
deaths, and 727 missing along with 21,671 injury victims.  The total
dead and missing (about 4774) make this quake the worst since the June
28,1948 quake in Fukui Prefecture that killed 3895 according to the
Asahi Nenkan.  The total dead and missing is not as great as the 1923
Great Kanto Earthquake that killed over one hundred forty-two thousand
people, but the extent of damage is great.  Note that the wire
services carried glaring errors in their historical data on previous
quakes, but the point is correct that this is a major disaster.

 Within Japan, the media did not always agree on details, but overall
the journalists were highly professional as they covered uncontrolled
fires, derailed trains, and collapsed expressways in extra-edition
newspapers and during all night coverage on television.

        Among the media coverage, television was by far the leading
source for current information.  Public television on NHK was careful,
and tended to underestimate deaths and missing.  Yet the expert
commentary on NHK was frank, self-critical, and precise as much of the
material from Kobe including helicopter shots meant that NHK gave the
most comprehensive coverage.  However, private stations also broadcast
alternative coverage that gave images of utter destruction and scenes
resembling war zones.  A lasting image came from a local TV newscaster
who grew up in Kobe and walked among the downtown ruins that left him,
at one point, speechless and at the point of tears.

        Japanese citizens are especially distraught by the failures of
prevention and warning.  The wire services made Associated Press file
an accurate story about the population's loss of faith in technology.
Compared to Los Angeles in 1994 and San Francisco in 1989, Kobe and
its population of 1.4 million people suffered far more extensive
damage.  No block of city was spared some destruction with many
buildings leaning on their foundation.  Many professors of engineering
and construction experts are making statements to the press and on
television about their miscalculations.  The collapse of elevated
expressways and railway bridges will take much time to rebuild, and
the homeless in smaller wooden dwellings and larger high rises will
need immediate shelter from near-freezing temperatures.  Many local
people are bitter that the Tokyo area received attention and warnings,
but no such forecast was ever made for this southern Hyogo quake.

        Specialists have lost confidence in their forecasts about
location and construction for earthquakes.  Severe quakes have hit
northern Japan as well as Kobe, but none have occurred near Shizuoka
or Tokyo where quake experts predicted.  Also, engineers who looked at
Japanese standards as the highest in the world must now reassess their
ideas about bridges, roads, and buildings.  In the U.S., Los Angeles
and San Francisco officials emulated Japanese building standards said
to protect against 8.3 magnitude quakes of the 1923 Kanto scale, but
they must now reconsider the extent of damage to Kobe-area expressways
and railroads.  At the moment, Japanese officials are skeptical about
creating economically viable standards that can withstand a quake such
as yesterday.  Such standards allowed Kobe to create two large
developments on landfill, but these areas suffered broken surfaces,
flooding, and sludge or mud holes where their buildings sank into the
bay.

        Politicians and civil servants moved to reassure the
population.  The Prime Minister, Tomiichi Murayama, was quoted by wire
services as focusing on minimizing the damages, while waiting to blame
or to analyze all the causes.  Murayama visited the area of Awajishima
and Kobe on Thursday, January 19.  The Land Agency moved to provide
disaster relief and local governments lent supplies.  Local TV in
Tokyo area covered a fleet of Yokohama city water trucks as they left
to drive to the west.  Though preparations were extensive, an estimate
100,000 people spent the near-freezing (zero Celsius) night in parks,
automobiles, schools, or public buildings.

        The shaking and aftershocks continue.  The initial shaking of
about 20 seconds and several weaker quakes continue to hit the region.
Experts estimate that restoring the basic services of electricity (one
week), water (two weeks) and gas (one month) will keep life from
normal.  Construction of transportation and buildings will of course
take much longer.

        The financial damage is extensive but difficult to determine.
Economists note that the total impact is severe.  Estimates range from
$30 to $80 billion, but the exact estimates are unclear.  The Hyogo
governor has asked for four trillion yen (about $40 billion), Other
economic impacts are mixed.  In Tokyo, insurance company stocks are
down, but construction, concrete, and glass stocks are up.  Damage in
Osaka closed Japan's second-largest stock market and the Kansai area
will face major disruptions.  Of course, Kobe is a port, export-hub,
shipbuilding and steel-manufacturing center, as well as a historic
international city.  Kobe also handles 12 percent of Japan's exports.
The damages to this area, and its people, will likely leave a major
mark not just on the economy, but also on the future of Japanese
society as a whole.
  

by Stephen J. Anderson ([email protected])

Inforum Project Director
The Center for Global Communications (GLOCOM)
Associate Professor
International University of Japan (IUJ)


For more information, write to:

Stephen J. Anderson ([email protected])

Inforum Project Director
The Center for Global Communications (GLOCOM)
Associate Professor
International University of Japan (IUJ)
Fax:  (81-3) 5412-7111, Phone:  (81-3) 5411-6677
1F, 6-15-21 Roppongi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 106 JAPAN

    Hey, makes no diff to me...I'm just giving an opinion!

6.2 off the coast of Hokkaido.

No reports of any significant damage.

I think the report in .64 made a good summary of what's going on in Japan
in the light of a world wide news. 

Many have pointed out the "lack of crisis management system" as a whole.
In contrast, the Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA) of 
the US was often brought up as an good example that Japan should take into 
consideration seriously when reviewing our current systems or procedures to 
make improvement.  It was said the FEMA worked nicely when the LA earthquake 
happened.  Although Japan sent a team to LA, it seems that we haven't learnt
from it.

Could anyone give me an overview of FEMA?  In particular, who declars as a
disaster, who to report to get the FEMA involvement, how FEMA acts after
the involvemet, and what responsibilites and autohrities are given in
"managing" the disaster.  I've also heard that "one-stop center" worked
well, in Hurricane Andrew and LA disaster cases for example, by which survived
victims were taken care of, whereas Japanese gerverment is trying to set 
up immideately.

Sorry for the sketchy note, but this is what's said that Japan is lacking
in taking quick & effective actions.  

_Tak

re: .60

>    In Japanese mythology who is the God of Earthquakes? Do they also have
>    a God of Thunder like Thor?

I'm not sure..  There are gods in mixture of Shintoism and Buddisum, and is 
no God.  They do have their own name.  However, when it comes to nature, 
I think it's rather spiritual and no names (like Thor) - more like just 
"Umino-kami (eg, a God of Water(the Sea)", "Yamano-Kami (eg, a God of Forrest/
Mountain)" and so on.  I can't recall similar one referring to 'a God of 
Thunder'.

re: 20 seconds (in .64 report)

NHK TV showed the 20 sec moment of the earthquake.  They previously set up, at
every branch office (Japan wide), an equipment on a wall at a floor so that 
automatically starts taping upon sencing an earthquake.

5:46AM, 0 second, a BIG shock.  By 3 second, all (desks, booksheleves, etc) 
continuously moving and swerving.  By 5 second, smaller ones flying out like 
bullets, and (big) bookshelves falling down.  For the 20 seconds the big shock
continuing.   A (stand-by) newsreporter NEVER managed to get out of his bed, 
the only thing he could do was 'struggling'.  Imagine for the 20 seconds you 
could do nothing but struggle.  Furniture, walls, ceiling are falling down on 
you.  The powerful earthquake did happen right under the cities and directly 
hit them in the early morning.

_Tak

            ... that they are caused by supernumerary apostrophes.
    
    ...and I'm STICKING with it!
    

    
    Note 210.72
    
    >1. Giant Cat Fish flapping it's tail
    
    Probably not.
    
    >2. God's punishment and warning
    
    Rrrrrrrright. 
    
    >3. The Eurasian, Indian, and Pacific plates rubbing together
    
    Tell me more about this `rubbing together' stuff.

    I am troubled and resentful about the apparently intentional omission
    ov my perfeckly possible theory as expressed in .71, from the
    aforeposted ballot.  Despite the unavoidable fack that this is NOT
    Friday, I find myself having to INSIST on its validity, on a co-equal
    basis with Scientific Creationism.
    
    You, sir, will hear from my solicitor, Hillary Rodham Clinton, in the
    morning.
    
    |-{:-)
    

    reason 5.

    Unexplained graviton pulses from the Gamma Quadrant.

    ...hypertrophied and supernumerary "i"s for the vanilla supernumerary
    apostrophes.  
    
    But far be it from moi to overpick a nit.  I yam overwhelmed with
    happiines's that my Scientific Supernumerary Theory has been added to
    the ballot, and thus it is with great pleasure and pride that I cast my
    vote:  
    
    To Wit, 4.
    
    Why are you not surprised!!!!???? :-)
    
    |-{:-)
                                            

Info based on a NHK radio news (1/22), of the nearly 5000 death toll 
at that time, 93 people were identified as:

	Korean           67
	Chinese           8
	Taiwanese         5
	Brazilian         8
	American          2
	Myanmar           2
	Swiss             1

_Tak

    This is very interesting.  It just goes to show how monolithic Japan
    is!
    
    -Jack

    
    Japan is a large block of stone?

I got word from a friend that no Digital Japan people were killed but
some of their families were killed or hurt.  The plant in Kobe was
damaged and it's closed.

					-K-

Just went to look it up, but not in my dictionary...

What's "Myanmar"?

    myanmar is what used to be burma.

>    myanmar is what used to be burma.



  Is that why there's no more burma shave?  somehow myanmar shave doesn't
 have the same ring

Should I change the way we address Christmas cards to my wife's Aunt Burmah?

Ahh, t'anks.

Dat's what happens when the older dictionary is on the
office desk but the shiny, up-to-date world atlas is
on the desk at home.

    Monolith:  A large organization that acts as a powerful unit. (Adj:
               monolithic).
    
    Well, I always understood monolithic countries were ones that didn't
    encourage immigration.
    
    -Jack

    Not only that, they don't like people from other countries moving
    there.

    
    Thank you Gilligan...
    

>             <<< Note 210.47 by COVERT::COVERT "John R. Covert" >>>
>       -< All of creation is fallen as a result of Adam's transgression >-
>
>God caused the earthquake because we are sinners.


Somedays it just doesn't pay to hit NEXT UNSEEN . . . .

    if all creation has fallen as a result of adam's transgression
    i say we know who the guilty party is. let's beat the crap outa
    this guy for making this a living hell! 
    
    Chip

    .91
    Ya, but didn`t Eve lead him down the path to sinning? 

    re; eve, okay we'll set the MSO babes on her...
    
        Chip

Eve did that?  Naughty girl.  Better spank her!

    
    And after the spanking...

    
    
    	yessssssssssss???????
    
    

    Since Eve is my wife`s name I`ll practice all this stuff on her...I
    know I`ll enjoy it.

    I do not recommend the knee-jerk entry.

    Hope this helps.

    Glenn

    From what friends who have been to Japan have told me, one is as safe
    or safer walking around in TOkyo or any other city over there, than
    they would be walking around in Merrimack NH. Virtually no street
    crime, and the Yakuza generally doesn't mess with tourists and visitors
    (except maybe in bad movies). Looting after a didaster is something
    that probably has not entered anyone's mind over there.
    
    Between the risks of living on the "pacific rim" or "ring of fire" 
    like earthquakes, volcanoes and tsunami (tidal waves for those of you in 
    RIo Linda California and Little Rock, Arkansas), typhoons and being
    uncomfortably close to a few potentially hostile neighbors with big 
    armies, could make one just a tad nervous, to say the least.
    
    I for one would be sure that Japan would be more likely to return the 
    favor of any assistance rendered unto them than would Mexico, Russia 
    or any of the other generally bankrupt countries we regularly send aid to.
    

    Who is our first best friend? 

    
    Brador!

    Bourque!

    
    I'll take Adam Oates 8^).

    Actually, Canada is the U.S.'s largest trading partner.

re: .104, Brian

I also was curious as to who held the "honor" or "beating out" the
Japanese to be our "best friends".

    I would place a tie here between Canada and England.

    some define "friends"... Japan? Not in my book baby.
    
    Chip

    contrary to what might be expected, the yakuza hasn't done anything to
    capitalize on the kobe disaster.  quite the contrary, actually - on the
    day of the quake they chartered a ship and a helicopter and set up a
    relief operation, beginning with water.  as of yesterday they had
    already distributed some 100,000 meals to refugees.
    
    the authorities are accusing the yakuza of trying to clean up their
    image.  okay, fine.  let 'em.

    if one defines 'biggest friend' as 'largest trade partner' then
    rankings such as first, second, 3rd, fourteenth, might actually make
    sense.  but don't assign any further interpretation to the word
    'friend' if that's the definition used.  there were a heckuva lot more
    British troops than Japanese in Desert Storm.
    
    DougO

    in Japan's defense (which i really dislike doing) i believe they
    were not allowed to deploy their military outside of their country
    (conditions of the surrender?).
    
    i don't believe that we (U.S.) consider Japan a military ally.
    
    Chip

    Ah, Chip, you are certainly correct, but I wasn't bashing Japan
    (btw, the no foreign deployments is part of their constituition, not
    their surrendur treaty), I was merely cautioning people to beware of
    the operative definition of 'friend'.
    
    DougO

    truely a caution worth mentioning, DougO...
    
    Chip

re: .89 or so

>    Not only that, they don't like people from other countries moving
>    there.

The hardest hit port city of Kobe is home to ~44,000 foreigners from 
97 countries.   

From the news (two days ago).. the toll of foreigners over 160.  
  
_Tak

    You must learn of Gilligan-san.

I was merely saying that there are a number of people from other countries 
here than one might possibly think.

I'm glad to learn from your views.
_Tak

A report from the Holy Catholic Church in Japan:

NSKK NEWS RELEASE

Nippon Sei Ko Kai Provincial Office
General Secretary
65 Yarai-cho, Shinjuku-ku, Tokyo 162 Japan
Jan 27, 1995

Thank you for your many messages of care and concern for NSKK following the
Great Hanshin Earthquake of Jan 17 1995. The secular media have provided
wide coverage and this will fill in about the Anglican Church in Japan.

As previously reported, there have been no clergy deaths. So far there have
been reported in the Diocese of Osaka three deaths of church members, and
in the Diocese of Kobe six deaths of students in church-related schools.

The Diocese of Kyoto has reported no deaths or injuries and no heavy damage
to churches. They have decided that the Diocese can care for any needed
repairs with their own resources. We will no longer include Kyoto in these
reports.

The Diocese of Osaka, in the western part closest to Kobe, had damage to
Christ Church Kawaguchi Pro-cathedral where the brick tower was separated
from the building and leans, the floor was buckled and the brick wall was
heavily damaged. The area was declared off limits to people and the
building unsafe. St. Peter's Church in Nishinomiya, while not collapsed,
had heavy damage to the rectory and kindergarten with roof and wall
separation. St. Mark's Church in Ashiya, while not heavily damaged, was in
an area of houses that were mostly destroyed, so the kindergarten served as
a refugee area and the rector and his wife helped rescue many people from
collapsed homes.

The Diocese and city of Kobe was hardest hit by the quake and following
fire. While none of the five churches were completely destroyed, they were
all damaged in the walls and roof, as was the Diocesan Center and office.
St. Michael's Pro-cathedral lost its interior ceiling, and the tower was
damaged and cracked. Many church members lost their homes and offers of
space have come from other church members around Japan. The church-related
schools all seemed to have survived without damaged and have been used as
refugee centers and as morgues. The Flying Angel was not damaged. Students
in the middle of the exam period have been offered outside home-stays and
people are struggling to carry on their lives with limited resources. The
help of volunteers is much appreciated and church members have been heavily
involved.

The future needs for rebuilding are yet unknown, but people need immediate
housing, clothing, food and support which is being provided by many
volunteer agencies, including the people of NSKK. We hope you will continue
in your prayer support for all those victims of the earthquake and those
who are working to help recovery.

The Rev Nathaniel Makoto Uematsu, General Secretary, NSKK.

Sent from the Anglican Communion Office in London UK
at 10:55 am GMT on Mon, Jan 30, 1995

James Lee Witt, the director of FEMA, and his team are visiting Japan.
A newspaper says that FEMA has 2516 employees in its headquarters in
Washington and 10 training facilities nation wide, and there are 4000
disaster reserves to help the agency.

The Japanese goverment has been considering the set-up of a central
disaster coordinating agency.  

Well.. what'll come out.  

From what I knew, FEMA was given its new life by Witt and worked well
for the LA quake.  Prior to that, however, it had been different.
Just wonder if I'm on track.

_Tak

RE: 210.124 by TKTVFS::NEMOTO "no facts, only interpretations"

Tak-san,

You are on track.  I would agree that FEMA has done a good job with the 
LA quake.  The point to having an agency like FEMA is to provide 
coordination between all the different disaster relief agencies,  charities,  
etc.  A problem with such an agency is that it's hard to see if it's really
ready to work well until a disaster strikes.  It's a job with long years of 
boredom interrupted by days of frantic activity.

If Japan decides to create a "Japan Disaster Coordinating Agency" or
JDCA(?),  I have one suggestion:  don't put it in Tokyo.


Phil

>I have one suggestion:  don't put it in Tokyo.

You hit the right place on the nail. 



Thanks,
_Tak

    <-------
    
    :)

    Perhaps FEMA has indeed done well in the LA quake from one year ago. 
    People where I live do not speak of it very highly, however; in this
    part of California, FEMA's response to two other disasters (the Loma
    Prieta earthquake of Oct 1989, and the Oakland Hills fires of 1990)
    came in for much criticism; slow, inadequate response, too much red
    tape, and callous disregard for the additional suffering imposed by
    these failings.  If those who suffered from 1994's Northridge quake
    don't echo our criticisms, then ours must have been heeded, and the
    grounds for them corrected.
    
    DougO

    <<< Note 210.128 by SX4GTO::OLSON "Doug Olson, SDSC West, Palo Alto" >>>

>    Perhaps FEMA has indeed done well in the LA quake from one year ago. 

DougO,

I believe Clinton made a point of improving how FEMA operates. But don't 
look for much credit to come his way from this forum.

In Japanese calender, today is "Kei-chitsu", the day on which
insects appear from their holes in the earth after the long
hibranation.   It also suggests Spring is just aournd the corner, 
but it snowed a bit two days ago in Tokyo..

_Tak

A newspaper had it yesterday that Japan is likely to go on daylight saving 
in '96.  Set the clock one hour ahead on the first Sunday of April and
reset on the last Sunday of October.  In the past, Japan adopted the daylight 
savings between 1948 and 1951, when Gen. Douglas MacArther headed U.S. 
Occupation Froces.  The system was discontinued because the public believed 
it would lead to longer working hours, the newspaper added.

If memory serves, this issue raised at least three-or-so times previously
and didn't make it happen..  Just wonder will it happen this time?

_Tak

    What are the reasons given in favor of going on daylight savings
    time?
    
    It's one of the biggest pains in the posterior that I can come up
    with on short notice.  Twice a year, everyone's living habits and
    sleeping schedules get thrown into a tizzy (not to mention having
    to change all thirty-eight clocks), and for what?  So some farmers
    in the midwest can have more daylight in the morning or evening?
    
    If you don't have some very solid, definable, tangible objectives
    and reasons for doing this, it's a very bad idea, in my opinion.
    
    Chris

Farmers hate daylight savings time.

    
    I read somewhere that the fall-back date was arranged by candy
    companies so they could sell more Halloween candy.
    
    Anything is possible, I guess.

I wish we would go on DST and stay on it.  None of this on-off-on stuff.

Bob

> I wish we would go on DST and stay on it.  None of this on-off-on stuff.

We did for a year or so in the '70s.  I think we did during WW2 as well.

Help stamp out daylight savings time!

I dunno about the geniuses that dreamed up this thing, but it seems to me
that the Earth continues to turn once every 24 hours regardless of what our
clocks say...

Farmers get up with the Sun.

    dst is supposed to give all of us nonfarmers more evening hours with
    light for doing all the fun stuff we can't do while we're at work.  i
    say off with its head.

>> Farmers hate daylight savings time.
    
    That's interesting, I was mistakenly assuming that it was done for
    agricultural reasons.
    
    Why do we do it then?  I can't stand it, needless to add...
    
    I agree that we should stay on DST permanently, but I feel that
    way mostly because we're on the more easterly side of the time
    zone (I think), so the local sunset seems to happen relatively
    early for us, and DST makes the day seem longer by shifting the
    daylight period over in our favor, so to speak.  I may have this
    backwards, but it's too strange to think about in detail right now...
    
    Chris

    Actually, the reason (as I understand it) is so the kids heading to
    school in the morning can walk/wait for the bus in the light.
    
    Of course, I also believe the candy/Haloween consipircy timing to
    reverse the change also.

    I remember seeing a report one time from someplace that didn't switch
    over, and they did have kids walking to school in the dark.

    
    Hey, I walked to and from the train in HS in the dark and it didn't
    kill me 8^).

    Yes, but it may have stunted your growth.

    on standard time, it grows light earlier in the morning.  late in
    december, when the daylight hours are as short as they get, it's not
    fully light at walking-to-school time in some places.  switching over
    during the winter is a bad idea because it would aggravate that
    problem; on dst in late december, it wouldn't get light until an hour
    later than it does on standard time.

    re: .144
    
    Uphill.. both ways.... right????
    
    
    :) :)
    

    I'm trying to piece this together.  "Spring forward, fall back."  So
    what was 10 am standard time (in the summer) is 9 am savings time (in
    the winter).  So if we stayed at standard time, and the sun came up at
    6 am, it would come up at 5 am daylight savings time.  So it would get
    light an hour _earlier_ on savings time.
    
    (I'm fairly certain that daylight savings time takes place in winter,
    when there's less daylight and therefore more reason to save it.)

    
    .145
    
    And exactly what are trying to say, Mr.Richardson?  Hmmmmm?
    
    .147
    
    Andy, I'm not _that_ old 8^).
    

    You're a foot shorter than I am.

    no, chels.  we do standard time in the winter, savings time in the
    summer.  savings time means it's 1 p.m. on the clock when the sun is
    at the zenith.  the later time means that there are more evening hours
    of light by the clock - as in it gets dark at 10 p.m. instead of 9.
    
    spring forward - when the clock says 2 a.m., set it to forward to 3.
    
    fall back - when the clock says 2 a.m., set it to back to 1.

    Why are we saving dayling in the summer?  It's hardly a scarce
    commodity then.

>    (I'm fairly certain that daylight savings time takes place in winter,
>    when there's less daylight and therefore more reason to save it.)

You're wrong.  DST is in the summer.  It prevents "wasting" those early
morning hours when the sun's up and you're still in bed.

    
    .150
    
    I am NOT, I...um...I...er, um
                               
    {crumple}
    
    {sob}

    > (I'm fairly certain that daylight savings time takes place in winter,
    >  when there's less daylight and therefore more reason to save it.)
    
    nope.  you got the spring ahead fall behind right, but when we spring
    ahead its to put the clocks onto daylight savings time, because we have
    extra daylight hours to screw around with in summer.
    
    DougO

I like DST. The fact that it doesn't get dark until after 8PM in June is
great. I always detest that Sunday in October when you've just set the
clocks back and it's dark an hour earlier.

    so move to kentucky, jack.  it stays late an hour later there because
    they're an hour farther west - but they're still in the eastern time
    zone.

    
    Why is Kentucky so, um, nondescript?  I grew up 40 miles from the
    Caintuck line and can only speak about Kentucky in cliches.  Hazard, KY
    is a coal-mining town of the poorest sort.  Louisville is beautiful
    horse country.  Moonshine.  Fort Knox.  Wendell Ford.  Phyllis George
    married the governor (who owned Kentucky Fried Chicken at one time).
    Anything else?  
    
    jeff

.139>I dunno about the geniuses that dreamed up this thing, 
    
    	I believe it was Benjamin Franklin.  It saved tons in wax candle
    	costs to not have to waste an hour of daylight by sleeping.  He
    	showed the math, and congress bought it.  So did France.

What did the candle lobby say about it?

    .158
    
    kentucky is not nondescript.  it is simply one of the westernmost
    places in the us portion of the eastern time zone.

DST doesn't seem to recieve warm welcome. :-)

>    What are the reasons given in favor of going on daylight savings
>    time?
    
The Japan government's efforts to promote energy conservation and give 
us another hour of daylight for leisure activities in summer.  Remarks 
supporting them came in from Energy Center (a research foundation) that 
550,000 kiloliters of crude oil would be saved annually if DST was 
introduced.  No more details info on the conservation.  

Besides energy conservation, does DST really help you (Americans) for 
leisure activities?   Moonlight workers as well as daylight workers. 8-)

_Tak

    > Besides energy conservation, does DST really help you (Americans) for 
    > leisure activities?
    
    Yes, absolutely, and I love that aspect.  DST comes into effect in
    early April and, whereas it would be getting dark by 7pm, sudden;y it
    doesn't get dark until nearly 8pm.  If I leave work at 5 or so, that
    gives more than 2 hours for a bicycle ride.  I can ride evenings from
    April until September; without DST, it would be more like only from
    late May until mid August.  It works for me.
    
    DougO

You mean, just as you start waking up in daylight, suddenly you have to
crawl out of bed in the darkness again?  That's one of the things I
*really* hate about them arsing about with the timezones.

Chris.

    and it fades the curtains

    Yes, DST is fine... it's going back and forth that I don't like.
    Let's just stay on DST all year.  If it means kids are standing
    at bus stops in the dark during the winter months, then I submit
    that school is starting too early, so let's shift school hours.
    This would probably fit in better with working parents' schedules
    anyway.
    
    One practical problem with going back to standard time at the end
    of October is that I have no time at all to rake the leaves at
    the exact time when they're coming down in earnest, because that
    hour or so of daylight in the evening has been rudely snatched
    away.  Plus, it's mucho depressing getting out of work in the dark.
    
    I like the Kentucky solution.  That's the real problem; we're so
    far east in our time zone that our local sunset is far too early
    when we're on standard time.
    
    Chris

I believe Indiana doesn't do DST.

    
     In Indiana, they don't know what time it is.  No doubt, it doesn't
    matter.  It is one of those state with a time zone line running
    through it, not along its borders.  One I stopped there and made
    the mistake of asking a Hoosier the time.  He looked like a deer
    caught in the headlights...
    
    bb

 I think parts on Indiana observe DST and some don't.  I discovered this
on my return trip from Colorado this last summer and it confused the heck out
of me.





Jim

    the state of indiana, as a whole, is in the eastern time zone and does
    not observe dst.  a small area across the ohio river from louisville,
    kentucky, does observe dst.  and a small aprt of the northwest corner
    of the state, near chicago, is on central time and observes dst to stay
    in synch with chicago.

    the state of indiana, as a whole, is in the eastern time zone and does
    not observe dst.  a small area across the ohio river from louisville,
    kentucky, does observe dst.  and a small part of the northwest corner
    of the state, near chicago, is on central time and observes dst to stay
    in synch with chicago.

 Hmmm...maybe you're right about Indiana..I do remember being quite confused
 when checking into a hotel in Indiana thinking I was too late for using the
 pool only to find it was an hour earlier than I thought (and an hour earlier
 than just a mile or 2 up the road in Ohio..




Jim

    Saskatchewan does not observe Standard Time.

 . . . nor most other 20th century customs.

( :^) )

    Newfoundland tried double daylight savings for one year, it didn't go
    over well. Tthey have half a time zone. So if it's 4:00 in Halifax,
    it's 4:30 is St. John's.

A bit different news:

McDonald's Japan is offering a bacon and letterce cheeseburger for 
145YEN, half the usual price. For the month of April, it will 
reduce the price of four hamburgers by 30% to return profits to
customers that were chlked up becuase of the strong yen, which
made imported raw meterials cheaper.
                                    (March 10, Asahi Evening News)

~90YEN = $1.00, probably now.  It was ~100YEN just a couple weeks ago.
We as consumers don't get good returns so far except the burgers..

_Tak

>customers that were chlked up becuase of the strong yen, which
                     ^^^^^^
                         should read: "chalked"

re: time zone

Fourtunately enough, Japan is so small islands that we have only
one time zone; Japan Standard Time (JST).

    
    If it is Friday at noon in Maynard, what time is it JST in Tokyo ?
    
      bb

    
    I think Japan is 14 hours ahead, so it'd be 2:00 Saturday morning.

>    I think Japan is 14 hours ahead, so it'd be 2:00 Saturday morning.

Right.  

14 hours - zone including Boston
17 hours - zone including Los Angeles

_Tak

I just came back from my lunch. 8-)
    

    
    How is Monday going so far?  You and Martin & Chele, I swear 8^).
    

Ur.. um.. slow start.

    It's nice to read Nemoto-san's notes after lots of years of not seeing
    them.  Too bad he has to write here.  Guess there's no action in
    JPNCLT, which I haven't read in a long, long time.
    
    Dozo yorushiku onegai shemasu, Nemoto-san.

> APSMME::RAMSAY

Natsukashii(My dear).. ;-) ;-)    It's been long time since last read your
note there.

>Too bad he has to write here.

Not so bad
"so far", I think.   8-)

There are notes conferences that run under a context of its hosting country; 
this soapbox would be a good example.  I write in when and where I think 
would fit.  I can't be an active contributer, regardless to say.

_Tak

re: day light saving

A study group on Summer Time System was formed yesterday of 47 members 
from Sangiin (the Upper House) for legislation in hopes to be submitted 
to the Diet (Congress) in April.

_Tak

    
    Last night I saw a newsclip of Japanese government armed men
    seizing chemicals from buildings run by cults.  I did not
    understand the commentary, but gathered this was related to
    the incidents on the subway trains.
    
    In Japanese justice, what happens now ?
    
      bb

    What I would like to know is, what are these people on about?!?

    
    "allegedly" about if you please....
    

    It's some sort of cult; they claim to be Buddhists, but their
    tactics make that difficult to believe.
    
    Their leader has been predicting the end of the world and has
    been urging his followers to prepare for death.  I only caught a
    part of a clip the other night; it showed the leader being 
    wheeled out on some sort of throne.  His urgings to his followers
    were eerily reminiscent of Jim Jones, the only twist being they
    seemed to be determined to take many thousands of innocent Japanese
    citizens with them.
    

Report I heard said they worshipped the Hindu god of destruction(Shiva?)
and were afraid of being attacked for their beliefs.

But we all know the media (allegedly) lies. :-}

Amos    

    wow.

Not much to say about it since many things are going on. 

As you might have already known, the sect name is "Aum Shinri-kyo", and they
claims to have 10,000 people in Japan.  ("Aum" is pronounced as "Ohm" of 
the Ohm's Law.)  They have a few branches outside Japan, including the US 
and Soviet, and others that I can't remember offhand.  They obtained a 
one-hour time of a radio broadcasting program in a Soviet media from which 
their messages were being trasmitted toward their Japan's members. Yesterday,
I heard that Soviet canceled the service after the police raids.

"Aum" stands for three words or phrases in Sanskrit, if memory serves.

>Report I heard said they worshipped the Hindu god of destruction(Shiva?)

Yes, and also of creation.   


allegedly,
_Tak

	If you want to know who we are,
	We are gentlemen of Japan,
	On many a vase and jar,
	On many a screen and fan.

    
    We figure in lively paint
    Our attitude's queer and quaint
    You're wrong if you think it ain't
    Oh! 

    <whistle>

    <hum, whistle>

    SNARF!

The next reply to this note contains, as far as I'm concerned, an objective 
view of what's going on. 

The Japan Times  
Sunday March 26, 1995

Editorial
More than religion is involved

  Is the nation about to discover the identity of the culprits behind the 
heinous sarin nerve gas attack on the Tokyo subway system during last Monday 
morning's rush hour?  That was the tantalizing possibility as the week 
ended with another series of massive National Police Agency raids on all 
compounds and facilities of the controversial Aum Shinrikyo sect.  In their 
first searches last Wednesday, ostensibly in connection with the abduction 
of Tokyo man by cult members on Feb. 28, the police seized huge quantities of 
various toxic chemicals required for the production of sarin, along with 
large amounts of cash, gold ingots and documents.

  The nation is justified in demanding an early solution to the dastardly 
crime on the capital's subways, the most frightening case of anonymous urban 
terrorism Japan may ever have experienced.  Ten innocent people have already 
died and 5,500 were left ill as a result of the toxic gas placed in five cars 
on three metropolitan subway lines as the trains converged on Kasumigaseki, 
where most central government offices are located.  Yet most Japanese were 
not prepared for the scope of last week's raids, which began with some 2,500 
police offices in riot gear and gas masks meeting only token resistance from 
sect members.

  While the public watches transfixed as the drama unfolds on their 
television screens, it is necessary not to lose sight of the face that Aum 
Shinrikyou was officially recognized as a religious foundation by the Tokyo 
Metropolitan Government in 1989 and thus claims constitutional protection.  
The sect was established that year by Mr. Shoko Asahara (born Chizuo 
Matsumoto), 40, as the successor to an earlier group he founded in 1984.  
Today Aum claims some 10,000 members in this country and perhaps 30,000 in 
Russia.  It also has small branches in Bonn and New York.

  Controversy has dogged the group from the very beginning.  Although it 
describes itself as a Buddhist sect, it is known to also include elements 
of Tibetan mysticism and Hinduism as well as the practice of yoga. Even if it 
proves not to be directly linked to the production of deadly sarin, it has 
left itself open to urgent questions about many other apparently illegal 
activities, in particular the abductions or unexplained disappearances of 
several people critical of the group.  Perhaps the most notorious case 
involves a lawyer, then 34, who was representing some former Aum members, 
along with his wife and infant child, all of whom vanished without a trace 
from their home one day in 1989.

  There also have been continuing reports of coercion and confinememt of 
members, of the requirement that they sign over all property and financial 
assets to the sect, of bizarre initiation rites and painful required 
physical regimens, as well as outright abuse of any member who attempts to 
leave the group.  In their raid last Wednesday on the facilities at 
Kamikuishiki, Yamanashi Prefecture. the police found some 50 followers 
unconscious or dazed and incoherent from apparent malnutrition, possibly from 
fasting. despite the presence of three doctors.  Six individuals, who 
appeared to have been drugged, required hospitalization.

  Throughout last week's events, representatives of the sect and subsequently 
Mr. Asahara himself - on videotape (his whereabouts remained unknown) -denied 
any involvement with the subway sarin murders or the earlier still unsolved 
sarin poisoning case in Matsumoto, Nagano Prefecture, in which seven people 
died.  They insist that they are being persecuted for their religious beliefs 
and that there is an innocent explanation for all the chemicals confiscated by 
the police: They were used in its various business and manufacturing 
activities.  Outside experts disagree, calling the dangerous substances the 
ingredients for a "chemical factory."

  As the week ended, the police announced their intention of questioning Mr. 
Asahara, who indicated through his lawyer his willingness to cooperate.  In 
the eyes of the law, he is innocent until proven otherwise.  He has much to 
answer for, however.  Sect publications warn of a cataclysmic end to the 
world in 1997, Mr. Asahara urged them to help him in his time of need and to 
be ready for death.  Even stranger is the fact that in a speech delivered on 
April 27 1994, he predicted his "first death" would be from "the phenomenon of 
poisonous gas such as sarin."

Sorry to get back off the subject again so quickly, but I just happened
to notice that Tom Powers posted a succinct and rational explanation for
Daylight Savings Time in 372.7 in CDSRV::ASKENET_V5.

>>    I think Japan is 14 hours ahead, so it'd be 2:00 Saturday morning.
>
>Right.  
>
>14 hours - zone including Boston

The US has entered DST. (right?)  Japan is now 13 hours ahead.

_Tak  

    
    The US should be able to handle that. At least you're not
    13 years ahead. :-)
    
    Heiko
    (11:05 MEST)

>    The US should be able to handle that. At least you're not
>    13 years ahead. :-)
    
Granted, but I'm ahead more than that.  *-)

    China is not a member of the WTO.  Japan is.  Our responsibilities in
    that agreement to Japan should preclude us from unilateral sanctions of
    that nature against Japan, if I understand the WTO rules.  If we do
    proceed, we are subject to WTO rulings against us- and given that we've
    fought so hard and so long to win worldwide acceptance of the WTO, much
    of it based upon US initiatives for opening markets in services and
    intellectual property protection, it would be extremely
    counterproductive were we to flout it during its first six months of
    operation.  I dunno what kind of ninnies Clinton has "advising" him to
    take unilateral sanctions against Japan as I read in the papers, but
    they clearly don't have a clue of the longer-term big picture.
    
    DougO

    -1 and what is the answer DougO? how do we rectify this gross
      imbalance of trade and policy?
    
      inquiring minds...
    
      Chip 

    
    So DougO.... how many more years do we wait for Japan to get with the
    program???
    
      Do you have a better way to "prod" them?
    

    
    Alas, Sliq is playing to the unions, not to consumers.
    
    For a multinational such as Digital (tm), this is very bad news.
    We buy and sell in Japan and other Pacific Rim countries, and do NOT
    need a trade war out there.
    
    But for General Motors, the Sliq demagoguery may be good news.
    
      bb

    Do we have better ways to prod them?  Of course we do- through the WTO
    ourselves.  If we can make a case in that forum for Japan's structural
    impediments, then they'll have to abide by it, or risk trade sanctions
    themselves.  Going after them unilaterally is stupid.
    
    Of course, I don't think our case is all that strong.  I don't think
    that Japan's government has all that much to do with why the Japanese
    don't buy very many American cars, any more.  Ten years ago maybe- but
    not now.  Clinton playing to the unions?  Naw, he's playing to the big
    three automakers who can't beg borrow nor steal their way into Japanese
    markets, much less sell into them.
    
    DougO

    
  >                                          It just guarantees
  > the open market of US.
  
    Since when is the US market open. Quotas on beef imports spring to
    mind.
    
    Gabor
    

    .214 - well spotted
    
    From the Australian embassy - April 1995
    
    Total level of government support as a percentage of the total value of
    production (Source: OECD Committee for Agriculture)  This is in the
    form of a graph - so I am eyeballing this to the nearest 5%
    
    Wheat
    	Australia 5%
    	US        50%
    	Europe    60%
    
    Beef/Veal
    	Australia 5%
     	US	  10%
    	Europe    60%
    
    Milk
    	Australia 25%
    	US	  50%
    	Europe    60%
    
    Sugar
    	Australia 10%
    	US	  50%
    	Europe    70%
    
    Any-one got a comparison for Japan?

I'm trying to figure out what you're saying.

Are you complaining because we have taxation structures in place to
limit the importation of foreign beef?

    The point is that the US complains about Japan being a
    closed market while the USA is a w i d e open market.  In some parts of
    the world (like Australia and NZ) the US is regarded as a closed
    (protected, subsidised) market, especially (maybe only) in agricuktural
    products.  The subsidy table shows that indeed the US does support
    agricultural business significantly and therefore makes imports
    uncompetitive, so the US is not as wide open as is claimed.

    It is an excellent point- the US market is not by any means completely
    free of trade distorting mechanism such as subsidies and tariffs, and
    especially in agricultural products.  Of course, we're not the worst by
    any means; its nearly impossible to ship rice, beef, or apples into
    Japan, and getting France to accept caps in the EU agricultural
    subsidies program nearly sank the Uruguay round of the GATT talks 18
    months ago.  btw, the 50% subsidy figures you provide don't match my
    recollection, but it has been several years since I've seen decent
    comparitive numbers.
    
    I would argue that the US has, more consistently than any other nation,
    tried to lead the way to open markets worldwide, but of course we've
    our own protectionist politics obstructing the way here.  Witness Ru.
    Protectionists pay a high price in the long run- their consumers pay
    more for lower quality goods, and their protected sectors become
    uncompetitive in the world markets.
    
    DougO

Well, pardon me a moment for donning my snooty nationalistic hat of conceit,
but why the hell would we want to encourage the importation of lesser foreign
agricultural products when we've got plenty of high quality home grown
stuff right here? In areas where we can't necessarily compete on a quality/price
comparison (electronics, etc.) we're more open. In areas where we're really
not interested in foreign goods (agricultural products, etc.) we're not.
Go peddle your farm goods someplace where they're wanted.

    I would argue that Australian beef is "better" than US beef but that's
    not the point - it's just a small dig that maybe the US is not quite as
    open as it would like to appear.
    
    And to paraphrase:
    but why the hell would Japan want to encourage the importation of lesser
    foreign automotive products when they've got plenty of high quality home
    grown stuff right there?
    
    The other economic argument is that you (and I) are paying 50% more
    than we should for US produced agricultural product.  

    re: .219
    
     Sounds like a dime store rationalization, Jack. If we are truly "not
    interested" then there is simply no harm by allowing foreign produce
    equal access to our markets. If our price/quality ratio is as good as
    you calim it is, then they won't be able to compete for market reasons.
    I suspect they are not, which is why the subsidies and protectionist
    practices exist in the first place.
    
     The Doctah

>    And to paraphrase:
>    but why the hell would Japan want to encourage the importation of lesser
>    foreign automotive products when they've got plenty of high quality home
>    grown stuff right there?

_I'm_ not complaining about that. Personally, I think Japan has every right
to limit the importation of American cars. I don't buy any SONY crap, either.
(OK  - I do buy some Japanese electronics. Just no SONY crap.)
    
>    The other economic argument is that you (and I) are paying 50% more
>    than we should for US produced agricultural product.  

I don't see an overwhelming number of Americans writing to their
congresscritters petitioning them to do what's necessary to lower the
prices for US Ag. products. It's just not important enough. All the
cholesterol in the beef will kill me far earlier than it could ever matter.

>    The other economic argument is that you (and I) are paying 50% more
>    than we should for US produced agricultural product.  

Where do you get this idea?

>    I suspect they are not, which is why the subsidies and protectionist
>    practices exist in the first place.

Well, I can't claim to be a connoiseur of all foreign beef, Doc, but if it
isn't any better than that miserable shoe leather from Argentina that they
tried to foist on us about 20 years ago, I'll pass. I'd seriously doubt
that there's significantly better beef available than that raised in the
American midwest.

    .223 >Where do you get this idea?
    
    Beats me, if I understood economics and had an answer to the
    international trade situation I wouldn't be sitting in a cube typing
    notes ;-)/2
    
    If the US government really does subsidise US agriculture to the 50%
    level then I'm paying once for the actual goods and then another 50%
    through my taxes.  In theory if you abolish the subsidy then the most
    efficient (local and foreign) producers will dominate the market and
    compete on price and quality.  The price theoretically drops - maybe
    not by the full 50%, my mistake.

    I don't think it matters whether there is any better beef from foreign
    sources or not; the fact is that we are effectively prevented from
    finding out on our own what we'd like to spend our money on by a set of
    regulations and tariffs that do not allow the market to find its
    balance. Such artificial restrictions also remove incentives on
    domestic sources to be competitive on the world market, which has
    ramifications on both domestic prices and the balance of trade.
    
     So maybe there are and maybe there aren't foreign sources of "better"
    beef, but say there are foreign sources of beef that are 90% as good as
    our best midwest beef, but 50% of the price. Why should we be denied
    the option?

.226, Doctah

It matters insofar as it's probably the case. Millions of Americans go
abroad every year. What I don't hear when they come back is, "Gosh - I had
the most delicious steaks in [Sydney/Buenos Aires/Barcelona/etc." What I
do hear is, "There's _nothing_ like midwest American beef." I'll take
their word for it. 90% as good at half the cost isn't what I want to buy,
even if it did exist. If _they_ think it's so good, let them try to sell
it here at a loss until it catches on and there's a demonstrated demand
for it. That will help the market adjust, too.

    >90% as good at half the cost isn't what I want to buy,
    
     But it likely is what millions of other americans want to buy, such as
    those on foodstamps, WIC, etc.
    
     My point is that free trade is a win for the consumer. You are a
    protectionist, which is essentially the antithesis of a free trade
    proponent, so you think it's ok that we pay more than we need to. I
    disagree, and doubt we'll find common ground on this.
    
     I'm a little surprised that you'd be a protectionist, given the fact
    that it's tax dollars out of your pocket and into somebody else's (with
    plenty of intereference along the way.) Protectionism is very
    expensive- not only do we pay subsidies directly to the farmers, we
    also pay higher prices as consumers and the cost of social programs
    like food stamps and WIC is also higher. lose-lose-lose. Unless you're
    a farmer.

>     But it likely is what millions of other americans want to buy, such as
>    those on foodstamps, WIC, etc.

Hey, everybody knows that people on foodstamps live on lobster and raspberries.

          <<< Note 210.228 by WAHOO::LEVESQUE "luxure et supplice" >>>

>     But it likely is what millions of other americans want to buy, such as
>    those on foodstamps, WIC, etc.
    
    	Or just your average middle-income person concerned more with
    	budget than quality -- like me.

    
    re:218
    
     >Of course, we're not the worst by any means; its nearly impossible 
    to ship rice, beef, or apples into Japan.
    
    Not entirely true DougO, there is a large amount of beef shipped from
    the U.S. to Japan, it's just that it only comes from ranches that are
    owned by the Japanese!
    
    

    The United States. Japan  and other countries who use government controls 
    to "protect" their economies, are actually hurting the living standards of
    their citizens. The only way for all people to gain personnally and 
    economically is in a system of free and open capitalism (laissez-faire). 
    This kind of capitalism simply means no government control or interference 
    over individuals and their property. Within this kind of atmosphere,
    individuals are free to create and build businesses, including big
    businesses, even monopolistic big businesses. Within this kind of
    atmosphere government would have no power to support big business or to
    protect monopolies, such as the banking, utility and communication
    company monopolies that are protected by government. Without government
    protection or assistance, big businesses and monopolies could exist and
    grow only by continually delivering better value than anyone else.
    Whenever any monopoly failed to deliver maximum value, the free market
    dynamics in the absence of all government controls would cause that
    monopoly to either to deliver better values or yield to others
    delivering greater values. Market dynamics free of government controls
    will sooner or later always collapse uncompetitive or harmful
    businesses, monopolies or cartels. The competitive effort needed to
    continually produce greater value than a rival quickly produces
    values beyond imagination. Lack of government controls would quickly
    produce the greatest asset to humankind, the cure for all of man's
    fatal diseases. In this realm government control is synonymous with 
    poverty and murder.
    
    ...Tom

    AP 10 May 95 1:00 EDT V0661
 
    Copyright 1995 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
 
    AP Top News At 1 a.m. EDT

    Wednesday, May 10, 1995
   
    [...]
    
    US-JAPAN AUTOS 

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Clinton administration has drawn up a formal
    complaint against Japan for closing its auto markets to American
    products. Officials said preparation of the complaint, which would be
    filed with the new World Trade Organization in Geneva, was to be
    discussed Wednesday with reporters by U.S. Trade Representative Mickey
    Kantor. Kantor also was expected to hint at other actions, such as
    punitive trade tariffs targeting a list of more than $1 billion in
    Japanese products. 
   
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    So, it turns out that we *are* using the WTO to take action against
    Japan.  Good!  This will strengthen that organisation whether we win 
    or lose our case, as long as we abide by the rules we agreed to.
    
    DougO

I heard that it's only recently that US car companies started selling
RHD vehicles in japan.  If that's true, it's not surprising that they
didn't sell many!

Chris.

    the U.S. market is small because they're twice as expensive to
    purchase (let alone the numbers allowed in).
    
    to make a blanket statement like the U.S. practices protection is
    useless. many of these countries (including japan in a big way)
    receive aid and other concessions from the U.S... 
    
    so don't go telling me that the U.S. is as bad unless you're going to
    talk about a specific country and you're going to include the
    relationship and not something as myopic as a car discussion.
    
    Chip

Can WTO handle this properly?  I've read in a newpaper that WTO has not
been fully organized yet.  They are stragling with the members selection.

_Tak

    A statement was made that it was felt the U.S. didn't have a chance
    of getting the WTO to support the sanctions. 
    
    Globe - yesterday.
    
    Chip

    
    
    WTO = UN in drag??
    

    > Can WTO handle this properly?  I've read in a newpaper that WTO has
    > not been fully organized yet. 
    
    They've certainly been crippled by the fact that though the
    organisation was supposed to be in full operation as of 1/1/95 there
    were three candidates to head it up- the US supporting the former
    president of Mexico, the Europeans supporting Ruggiero from Italy, and
    many from the Far East supporting a candidate from South Korea.  That
    stalemate was finally broken when the candidate from Mexico got his
    escutcheon tarnished with the peso collapse, and the US grudgingly
    agreed to support Ruggiero- after badmouthing him as too protectionist
    for the previous six months.  Ruggiero has been on the job for a month
    or two and no, the WTO is not fully up to speed- but they should still
    be able to handle a trade complaint, its arguably among their most
    important functions and should get priority.
    
    People who don't recognize the acronym "WTO" and liken it to the UN
    have gotten their prejudices confused- WTO is successor to the GATT
    organisation, and was created from the successful ratification of the
    Uruguay round of GATT negotiations.
    
    DougO

    
    
    just for clarification....
    
    WTO = UN (impotence wise)
    
    

Guardian Angles.   They are planning to establish a Tokyo branch here.
The sarin attack seems to have made them beleive that Japan is no longer 
a safe country.

I tend to think Japan is much safer country than the US. 

Ur.. sorry..   8-)
  
_Tak

       The problem is not the safety of the country; the problem is the
       unholy amount of time that's required to get between Tokyo and
       Narita. 
       
       --Topazsan

    
      The newz today has more Japan cults and bombs.  Whatsup ?  bb
    

Asahara, 40, the leader of Aum Shinri-kyo, was arrested on suspicion
of murder in connection with the sarin gas attacks on the Tokyo subway
system.  

More later if I have time.

    
    
    	Word has it they had to cut through steel reinforced walls to get
    to him and that they had 1,000+ cops in riot gear carrying canaries in
    cages to detect gas attacks. Must been a heck of a sight.....
    
    
    jim

I heard it was carried live on Japanese TV.

    
    >live canaries in cages
    
    Detector, Gas, M1A1 

    >US announced 100% tariff yesterday on Japan's luxury cars.
    >Take effect on Saturday 12:01 May 20.
    
    As usual government interference, under the guise of "saving" US
    economics, will:
    
    	1.	Raise the price of the superior Japanese cars.
    
    	2.	Squelch any need for American auto makers to continually
    		produce a better and more competitive product.
    
    	3.	Adversely affect the Japanese Auto makers and dealers that
    		operate in this country.
    
    	4.	Cause increased animosity between Japanese and Americans.
    
    All so Bill Clinton can act like he is doing something good, yea right!
    
    The power of the elitist government of the USA. Isn't it grand?! :-)
    
    ...Tom

    So how does the U.S. go about trying to get the Japanese to allow U.S.
    imports if they can't resort to tariffs?

    >> All so Bill Clinton can act like he is doing something good, yea right!
    
    Fear not, most of us are onto his little games.  Except, of course,
    for my father-in-law's SO (Forrr WHATTT?!!).
    
    What is a "Japanese luxury car" for the purposes of this tariff?
    What percentage of all Japanese cars sold in this country does
    this comprise?  Does this include made-in-USA cars from Japanese
    companies?
    
    Chris

    Lexus, Acura etc.

    re: .251
    
    Because as usual, he's dinking around, trying to straddle the middle
    instead of really dealing with the issue.  Either do it right, or
    don't do anything.  Furthermore, the problem he's really trying to
    solve here is his own re-election.  This is clearly a pander to
    anti-Japanese sentiment amongst the blue-collar traditionally
    Democratic strongholds.
    
    If he really wants to "do this" (not that I agree), he should
    make it all cars, or all imports, or close the borders, or something
    a bit more effective than making it harder to buy the Yuppiemobiles
    that are despised by the potential voters that he's attempting to
    impress with this move.
    
    Chris

>    What is a "Japanese luxury car" for the purposes of this tariff?

There's a list of 13 models (2 Acuras, 5 Lexi, 3 Infinitis, 2 Mazdas
and 1 Mitsubishi).

>    What percentage of all Japanese cars sold in this country does
>    this comprise?

1994 sales were around 235,000 units.

    At least the U.S. is allowing the imports, what about the Japanese?

    When pressed, the Japanese government puts forward excuses such as the
    fact that the steering wheels of 'Murican cars are on the wrong side. 
    
    The fact is that almost all 'Murican models are also available with
    steering wheels on the right side and are sold that way in other
    countries.  In addition, many Japanese consumers seem to find that a
    wrong-sided car has a certain cachet, and the most popular 'Murican
    Ford product in Japan is currently the Mustang, which is NOT available
    with a right-hand drive.

    I think the U.S. is within its rights to impose the tariff.

    Just tell Japan that all trade between our two countries will cease
    until a 100% free and open market is allowed between the two countries.
    The shores of both countries will totally open to each other within a
    month.
    
    The best thing this country can do for its economy is to adopt a policy
    of Laissez-faire capitalism for itself and insist that any countries
    that wish to trade with us do the same.
    
    Politicians will never do this because it takes the power out of their
    hands. Remember, regulation is required in order to even need a
    politician. Eliminating regulation results in increased economy and the
    laying off of most all politicians.
    
    ..Tom 

    <--- Oh sure a complete trade embargo. That's real good for everybody.

    > I think the U.S. is within its rights to impose the tariff.
    
    Except that the USA is a signatory to the World Trade Organization pact
    that prohibits unilateral retaliatory tariffs...

    The stupidity of punitive tarriffs is painfully obvious.  This will
    impossibly besmirch our 50-years hard-earned reputation as the
    champions of free trade.  This will backfire in Clinton's face- wait
    for the news media reports of out-of-work innocent american salespeople
    who happen to work for large luxury car dealerships.  long-term, this
    removes the american automobile industry's need to compete at world
    levels- and while the US is the largest car market, Detroit can't
    afford to ignore the rest of the world, which is growing a lot more.
    
    I can't beleive they're putting in a deadline only three days from now.
    Stupid, stupid, stupid.
    
    DougO

    >> I think the U.S. is within its rights to impose the tariff.
    
    The point is that if his real goal is to "put the screws",
    then at the very least the tariff should have been applied
    to all Japanese cars, not just the luxury cars.  If he really
    wanted to "get tough", there are other things that he could
    do as well, which have been enumerated in previous replies.
    
    But that's not his real goal, you see.  His real goal is to
    get the parking-lot crowd to shout "Yesssssss!", to regain the
    shaky-at-best support of the lower/middle class blue collar
    folks who have felt threatened by foreign imports for so long.
    It's just playing to the crowd.
    
    Chris

re .259    

>   The best thing this country can do for its economy is to adopt a policy
>   of Laissez-faire capitalism for itself and insist that any countries
>   that wish to trade with us do the same.
    

fortunately for the rest of us, US politicians are not as arrogant as you'd
like them to be!



andreas.

    >I can't beleive they're putting in a deadline only three days from now.
    >Stupid, stupid, stupid.
    
     Contrary to the May 20 date, I heard that the tarriffs were not to
    take effect for 30 days, giving the japanese plenty of time to come to
    a settlement. I don't think for a minute that Clinton is actually going
    to impose any tarriffs unilaterally, particularly given the fact that
    we're going to the WTO with our grievances (as is Japan, to protest the
    threatened tarriffs.)

    >Oh sure a complete trade embargo. That's real good for everybody.
    
    Read the whole thing dunderhead. As reflected in the trade imbalance
    between our two countries, Japan needs us as much or maybe more than we
    need them. We would have open trade within a month. Of course this
    means totally free and unregulated trade.
    
    ...Tom (no offense ment, I just like to say dunderhead  :))

    >fortunately for the rest of us, US politicians are not as arrogant as
    >you'd like them to be!
    
    This is a joke right? I didn't see the :) so I wondered.
    
    
    Yea, it must be, no one would seriously make this statement. 
    
    
    Yea, I'm sure it's a joke!! :}
    
    ...Tom

    It's ok, it's the second time today that I have been the object of a
    personal disparagement.

    
    Don't feel bad; I was personally disparaged yesterday 8^p.  We can form
    a club or something 8^).

.268, no sir, no joke. it seems pretty arrogant to me to insist that the rest
of the world should reintroduce laissez-faire capitalism in order to trade with
the US.

very definetly arrogant! unless i have totally misread you of course. :-}


andreas.

re: .250

>    	2.	Squelch any need for American auto makers to continually
>    		produce a better and more competitive product.

I wonder if, after coming as close to death as they once did, American
auto makers would really be so stupid as to make that mistake again.
This time they know what could happen - last time they didn't believe
it was possible.

    The tariffs will be assessed as of shipments starting May 20 but will
    be held in escrow until JUne 28, when the putative tariffs would
    become official.

    	I wonder if the tarriffs will encourage price gouging for
    	competing American- and European-made cars sold here...

    >I wonder if the tarriffs will encourage price gouging
    
    
    If you mean will the law of supply and demand take affect, I would
    think rightfully so.
    
    ...Tom

    >rightfully so.
    
    Oh, yeah, introduce a tariff doubling the price of 1/3 of the supply,
    distorting market efficiencies terribly, and stand back and say
    "supply and demand"!
    
    If I thought you had the vaguest notion of what 'rightfully so' means
    with regard to mechanisms of market efficiency, I'd eat my hat. 
    Fortunately, you've given me no reason to suspect that you do.
    
    DougO

    	Well, yeah, Doug, supply and demand.
    
    	If 1/3 of the supply is essentially eliminated by the tarriff
    	(due to the exhorbitant price) then the prices would be expected
    	to rise on the remaining two thirds of the supply if the demand
    	remains the same.
    
    	I would have thought you would have agreed with that notion.

    Actually Dougo it is difficult for anyone to know the mechanisms of
    market efficiency since all markets are controlled. 
    
    But since you are now a self-proclaimed expert, perhaps you should
    enlighten us all. Rightfully so means that if consumers are priced out
    of a certain market, due to government controls, the remaining market
    will have additional demands. These demands will force the prices up.
    We all learned this in 5th or 6th grade. 
    
    ...Tom 

    Doug was objecting to your "rightfully so" comment on the basis that it
    indicated that price gouging by the competing sector of the market was
    a good thing, additionally, one would suspect, in your characterization
    of "supply and demand" as being the dominant force in the upwards price
    pressure.

    supply and demand is used as shorthand to imply a bunch of things about
    market efficiencies.  in a strict technical sense, it merely describes
    the relationship between supply and demand.  There is nothing
    'rightful' about this relationship, it has no moral character; it is
    more a natural law.  the "rightfully so" comment is implying the
    extras, the shorthand, the assumptions that the operation of
    the natural law is a good thing for everybody because it delivers the
    goods that people are willing to buy at the price they are willing to
    pay.  But having distorted that mechanism with punitive tarriffs,
    you've invalidated the assumptions.  There is nothing 'rightfully so'
    about it.  Yes, supply and demand describes the price you'll have to
    pay; but without the benefit of the efficiencies the market would have
    demonstrated in the absence of punitive tarriffs.
    
    DougO

    I'd read last night that the particular car models involved here
    were chosen not only because of their high cost (though that
    certainly helps from a political standpoint), but because they
    are not manufactured at any American plants, which answers one
    of the questions I'd asked earlier.
    
    The American jobs potentially at risk here would thus appear
    to be salespeople, who could presumably switch to another maker
    if things get tough, which they frequently do anyway from time
    to time.
    
    Chris

    Oh, and I'd also read that the reason for starting the tariff
    immediately (or to be more precise, making it conditionally
    retroactive or some other legal gobbledygook) was so that Japan
    wouldn't try to flood the market for quick sales of these cars
    between now and the date next month when the "official" date
    kicks in.
    
    Chris

    >Doug was objecting to your "rightfully so" comment on the basis that it
    >indicated that price gouging by the competing sector of the market was
    >a good thing, 
    
    It is not a good thing but is always the result of this kind of
    government control. Putting an end to the control will increase
    competition. This will increase product quality and decrease product
    cost.
    
    >additionally, one would suspect, in your
    >characterization
    >of "supply and demand" as being the dominant force in the upwards
    >price pressure.
    
    The dominant force is the business of making money. That is why
    businesses exist in the first place. Business should be able to charge 
    what they can get for their products. This is the capitalist system.
    Government control stops the normal flow of business by the use of 
    dictatorial regulations. Without this regulation consumers always move
    toward the best products at the best cost. With the regulation they
    have to take what they can get.
    
    When I say rightfully so, I mean it is right and natural within a
    capitalist system for prices to rise under government control. What is 
    REALLY RIGHT is free enterprise under a free market capitalist system.
    
    ...Tom 

    So, how else can the U.S. pry open the Japanese market? Eventually some
    sort of punitive measures will have to be used if the Japanese insist
    on closing their markets to certain imports.

    > So, how else can the U.S. pry open the Japanese market? Eventually
    > some sort of punitive measures will have to be used if the Japanese
    > insist on closing their markets to certain imports.
    
    Who says that the reason American cars don't sell in Japan is because
    the market is closed?  This is an unproven assertion, and the proper
    place to assert it is where we've previously agreed to, at the WTO in
    Geneva.  Not with hot air and threats to start a trade war with
    unilateral actions which we've also previously agreed NOT to use, and
    which open US up for legal sanctions.
    
    DougO

    aren't U.S. cars exported to Japan subjected to unfair tariffs?
    
    that's what i remember reading (outragously high) but can't remember
    the details.
    
    Chip

    >aren't U.S. cars exported to Japan subjected to unfair tariffs?
        
    I'd expect to see a LOT more news coverage of that were it the case.
    Consequently, I don't think it is.  What I have read about is that not
    many Japanese car dealership will accept American cars for display in
    their show rooms- and that car mechanics don't buy American-made spare
    parts.  And for this we're trying to start a trade war?  STUPID.
    
    DougO

    What's hugh been up to lately that his deficit would cause such a
    brouhaha?

    
    That's it; anyone named Hugh should stand up and volunteer to be traded
    to Japan.

    I suggest we trade Hugh Beaumont right away.
    
    ...Tom

    What's this I hear about Americans being lazy and slobs by a Japanese
    automaker being threatened with a recall?

    
    
    
    The plastic used to make the seat belt clasps used in many
    automobile models has a tendancy to break down after long term
    exposure to sunlight, and regular usage.
    
    The Japanese company that makes the seatbelts is claiming that
    the p[lastic isn't the problem.  It's the way Americans eat and 
    drink in their car that's the problem.
    
    
    Horse puckies.....
    
    Terrie
    

    What good is a car that you and the kids can't eat in?!

    .294
    
    It is not necessarily horsepuckey.  Upon examination, buckles that have
    failed in accidents have shown quantities of animal hair and food
    jammed inside.

    > It is not for that to start a trade war.  It is for the hugh
    > trade deficit.
    
    On simple accounting principles, the trade deficit is a measure of how
    much more Americans consume than they save.  It is our OWN FAULT that
    we have to borrow from abroad to finance our lavish overexpenditure, it
    is our own fault that Americans don't save enouugh to not have huge
    trade deficits.
    
    This is also a STUPID excuse for starting a trade war.
    
    DougO

    
    -1
    
    I thought the US has had a trade deficit since the 1900s and it only
    reversed during the war years.  Which means that there was a deficit
    when many Americans were too poor to consume foreign goods or save,
    and there was a deficit when the US was at it's peak of peacetime
    exports and domestic per capita income?