| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 90.1 | | ANNECY::HUMAN | I came, I saw, I conked out | Tue Nov 22 1994 09:36 | 9 |
| Get your quotes correct first:
"The love of money is the root of all evil"
^^^^
In any case it ain't so.
martin
|
| 90.2 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Tue Nov 22 1994 09:45 | 1 |
| Or, as Rev. Ike would say, "Lack of money is the root of all evil."
|
| 90.3 | Money, I like it! | DASHER::RALSTON | Who says I can't? | Tue Nov 22 1994 10:19 | 9 |
| Money is created only through the creation of competitive values for
self, others and society. Money is the measure of competitive value
production, which moves society forward. Almost without exception, those
who vilify, undermine and drain business publicly scorn money and
the values it produces, and are actually obsessed with usurping money
and values in order to live without producing competitive values for
others.
...Tom
|
| 90.4 | | SMURF::BINDER | vitam gustare | Tue Nov 22 1994 10:42 | 9 |
| .1
> "The love of money is the root of all evil"
> ^^^^
>
> In any case it ain't so.
according to the bible it is. 1 timothy 6:10.
|
| 90.5 | | VMSNET::M_MACIOLEK | Four54 Camaro/Only way to fly | Tue Nov 22 1994 10:50 | 31 |
| re: Note 90.3 by DASHER::RALSTON
Ah, but WHAT is money? At one time, and according to the Consitution
our money was backed by gold or silver. It was considered lawful
money. What we have now is script. It's not backed by anything other
than a "promise" to pay.
Script money is a contract. It is a promise to pay real money at a
later date.
From 1865 to 1923 our money said
"This certifies that there have been deposited in the Treasury of the
United States (of America) X Dollars in silver (or gold) coin payable
to the bearer on demand... This certificate is redeemable for customs,
taxes and all public dues, and when so received may be reissued."
Then there is the Aldrich-Vreeland act of 1908. This bill authorizes
banks to issue notes not only against US government securities
deposited in the Treasury, but on other types of securities as well
such as stocks and private bonds. A "legal" debt pyramid.
From 1916 to 1929 the inscription mentioned only "government
securities", but in reality our money was backed by other paper
(IOU's).
In 1929, "someone" started a selling frenzy on wall street. The
Federal Reserve banks who acted "prudently (sat on gold)" remained solvent
while state and national banks went belly up. Competition with the Federal
Reserve was eliminated and we went to a central banking system
against the wishes of our Founding Fathers who forsaw that as
undesirable.
|
| 90.6 | Generally speaking, I agree... | GAAS::BRAUCHER | | Tue Nov 22 1994 10:59 | 7 |
|
I dunno about ALL evil, but the love of money is certainly a big
trap in life. I know whereof I speak. Many in my family have
eschewed higher paying positions for other reasons, as have I.
Never regretted it a second. But then, I don't spend all I get now.
bb
|
| 90.7 | | ANNECY::HUMAN | I came, I saw, I conked out | Tue Nov 22 1994 11:03 | 6 |
| look, this note is obviously going to/was-set-up-to-be yet another
platform for bible-thumping.
forget it. there is no hope for rational debate in America.
martin
|
| 90.8 | | MOLAR::DELBALSO | I (spade) my (dogface) | Tue Nov 22 1994 11:05 | 2 |
| Somehow, I doubt that MadMike was setting a stage for thumping, Martin.
|
| 90.9 | | HAAG::HAAG | Rode hard. Put up wet. | Tue Nov 22 1994 14:30 | 1 |
| "memory and disk are like money. you can't have too much.
|
| 90.10 | | ODIXIE::CIAROCHI | One Less Dog | Tue Nov 22 1994 14:59 | 11 |
| I think the only time MadMike would thump a bible is over an intruders
head, if it happened to be handy (the bible). Unless the dog got out
of the way. Then he'd shoot 'im (the intruder, not the dog).
Humorously enough, my folks still think the dollar is backed by gold.
My father was very upset to hear that the US Treasury sold the last of
its gold under the Carter administration. He suggested that even as
stupid as Carter was, he wouldn't commit treason by doing that.
(My father hadn't yet heard that Carter is now a saint, and still
thinks of him as stupid.)
|
| 90.11 | | MIMS::WILBUR_D | | Tue Nov 22 1994 15:32 | 8 |
|
.5 > Ah, But what is money?
A unit of power.
|
| 90.12 | just hang around awhile | ANNECY::HUMAN | I came, I saw, I conked out | Thu Nov 24 1994 03:12 | 2 |
| just you wait and see, i guarantee (no money back) that this will degenerate
into a bible thumping session.......
|
| 90.13 | I'm sure you will be hanging around - but why?? | SOLVIT::ALLEN_R | | Thu Nov 24 1994 04:46 | 4 |
| and I can guarantee that -.1 will find it even if it isn't there.
or will make it happen even if there is no intent.
are you a prophet-in-training?
|
| 90.14 | No need to thank me | ALPHAZ::HARNEY | John A Harney | Thu Nov 24 1994 08:45 | 6 |
| re: .-1
Translation:
Yes, it will degenerate, but I'll insult you for noticing.
\john
|
| 90.15 | | SUBURB::COOKS | Half Man,Half Biscuit | Thu Nov 24 1994 09:01 | 5 |
| It always stikes as an interesting coincidence that those who say
they are not materially minded,and that they don`t need money always
have a nice big house,a nice car,take expensive holidays etc.
|
| 90.16 | | USAT05::BENSON | | Thu Nov 24 1994 10:19 | 11 |
|
well that can only explain the statement. everyone know's money is
important. some folks forget this when they get to the level of their
comfort.
as a matter of fact our affluence as a country has led to much of the
nonsense we deal with daily. if we were actually striving to make a
living we'd have no time for all of these "luxuries" which seem so
important to us at the moment. its a fantasy really.
jeff
|
| 90.17 | Conspiracy Haven | STRATA::BARBIERI | God cares. | Mon Nov 28 1994 09:02 | 20 |
| Quick "money" question...
If our money is not backed by gold, is it backed by the
possessions of its private citizens (among other things)?
Hypothetical Question:
Lets say the debt is unmanageable. We finally officially
go belly up (so to speak). Lets say the ultimate bank to
which we owe is an international bank such as the IMF -
International Monetary Fund.
Do I own my possessions or does this 'bank' (to whom we now
might have some subservience to) own them? Do any of us own
anything anymore?
I know this is all hypothetical, I am just wondering what the
repercussions of the government lacking collateral is.
Tony
|
| 90.18 | | GRANPA::MWANNEMACHER | | Mon Nov 28 1994 09:05 | 9 |
|
Everyone's acting on good faith witht he notes we pass. Whoever is
holding them when the creditor calls them is liable for their debt, it
is a bearer instrument.
Mike
|
| 90.19 | | VMSNET::M_MACIOLEK | Four54 Camaro/Only way to fly | Mon Nov 28 1994 09:18 | 17 |
| re: Note 90.17 by STRATA::BARBIERI
You know all those farms (land) that got foreclosed on in the '30's?
Who owns them?
You OWN nothing if you have a colorable title. You merely possess
something, which someone else can take away without due process. There
are ways to lawfully OWN your property (once it's paid for).
The biggest problem many Americans have is DEBT. If you are in debt
you are basically owned by someone else, or can quickly be bossed
around. By using "cash" or FRN's you agreeing upon, or obligating
yourself to certain things and conditions which can hang you up.
Another nice trend is allowing Americans to get 40 year mortgages
and school loans that last forever. All federally backed, of course.
Read the fine print in all your "legal" paperwork.
|
| 90.20 | | CSOA1::LEECH | annuit coeptis novus ordo seclorum | Mon Nov 28 1994 10:49 | 8 |
| Another interesting tidbit...personal debt of Americans is more than
the national debt.
It's all fantasy money. We are set up for a currency collapse unless
things change drastically over the next decade (and unfortunately,
current trends are in the wrong direction).
-steve
|
| 90.21 | | ODIXIE::CIAROCHI | One Less Dog | Tue Nov 29 1994 13:29 | 32 |
| re: a few back....
the federal deficit (which is different than the national debt) is
money owed by the federal government to the federal reserve bank.
Money owed to other sources, including outstanding certificates (real
money) is the national debt, and is insignificant.
Your mortgage, and all of your loans are colored money - federal
reserve notes. Should the crisis occur, and FRNs are no longer
available, the liens could be called by the lien holders. Since near
to all of the land is held by the secondary mortgage market companies,
(fanny mae, freddy mac, ginny mae, etc), the stockholders of these
companies would hold title to your home. [for those of you who don't
know, banks and mortgage companies resell your mortgage and then
service the mortgage for a fee to the mortgage holder - the bank does
not actually own the mortgage lien].
My guess (I don't know, for sure) is that these stockholders are the
same stockholders who own the federal reserve, or pretty close to it.
There is also the possibility that they are subsidiary companies to the
federal reserve.
If this is the case, were the federal government to default its
contract with the federal reserve (a.k.a. the U.C.C.), in all
probability the default owners of all of the privately owned US land
currently under mortgage would be the owners of the federal reserve.
Kinda spooky really, except there are ways you can protect your
investment. Probably only one homeowner in 10,000 does it, though.
Conspirationally yours,
Mike
|
| 90.22 | | VMSNET::M_MACIOLEK | Four54 Camaro/Only way to fly | Tue Nov 29 1994 14:02 | 10 |
| You can either alienate your property, or become a lienholder onto
the property in such a way it is uneconomical to foreclose and
have to settle the lien.
This is clearly obvious in that personal property can be taxed, while
private property can not. It is against the law (so said the sCotUS)
to tax a right (the right of ownership), thereby proving you merely
have possession). Even after you pay off the mortgage, you still
possess a colorable title and must alienate the property to be able
to defend the fact of ownership in court.
|
| 90.23 | I mentioned lawful money earlier... hmmm... | VMSNET::M_MACIOLEK | Four54 Camaro/Only way to fly | Tue Jan 10 1995 15:38 | 18 |
| Hmmm, an interesting thing came in my electric bill (holy $$$$) today.
A huge photocopy of a $500 bill.
McKinley is the portrait. At the top it says "Federal Reserve Note"
Series 1934.
At the bottom it says "will pay to the bearer on demand"
"FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS"
Above the FR seal it says
"This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private, and is
redeemable in LAWFUL money at the United States treasury, or at any
federal reserve bank".
Made me wonder, if there's such a thing as "lawful" money, then the
$500 bill is essentially acknowledging the fact that it ISN'T lawful
money.
|
| 90.24 | | EST::RANDOLPH | Tom R. N1OOQ | Wed Jan 11 1995 15:25 | 7 |
| Yep, I have a $1 silver certificate that, believe it or not, I got in change
at the grocery store. It has words to the effect of: "Certifies that there is
on deposit in the Treasury of the U.S. one dollar in silver, payable to bearer
on demand". Silver certificates have blue ink on the front where there's
usually green ink.
Makes me wonder if dollar bills under the gold standard said similar stuff?
|
| 90.25 | | WMOIS::GIROUARD_C | | Thu Jan 12 1995 06:52 | 10 |
| -.1 yes they did. however, the gov't will not honor the certificates
redemtion in the precious metals anymore. i remember my father
getting a $2.00 gold certificate (i think it was a $2.00 bill)
when i was about 10 years old.
there was a last gasp effort by the gov't (i think in the '70's) to
get the silver certificates out of circulation by offering silver
in exchange.
Chip
|
| 90.26 | | MAIL1::CRANE | | Thu Jan 12 1995 07:30 | 3 |
| I think the only difference is it says gold instead of silver and I
don`t think they issued them in $1.00 bills. My brother has a hundred
gold certificates and they are all $20.00 bills.
|
| 90.27 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Thu Jan 12 1995 10:30 | 6 |
| > there was a last gasp effort by the gov't (i think in the '70's) to
> get the silver certificates out of circulation by offering silver
> in exchange.
Been there, done that, 1965 I think. I was under the impression that up until
they yanked silver certificates, you could always exchange them for silver.
|
| 90.28 | | WMOIS::GIROUARD_C | | Thu Jan 12 1995 12:28 | 1 |
| ... i beleivve that was the case too...
|
| 90.29 | | IMPROV::RANDOLPH | Tom R. N1OOQ | Tue May 09 1995 15:20 | 13 |
| Hey, any truth in this? Is this newsworthy? What do you think?
> From: [email protected] (Thomas Woolman)
> Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
> Subject: US Economic Collapse: More Indicators
> Date: 2 May 1995 17:43:15 -0400
> FWIW, I just learned that effective May 1, 1995 the U.S. Treasury has
> changed the rules governing U.S. Savings Bonds. In another desperate
> attempt to delay the debt from ruining this nation, the Treasury Department
> can no longer guarentee the 4% interest rate on savings bonds. That's
> really sad.
|
| 90.30 | New money! | N2DEEP::SHALLOW | Subtract L, invert W | Thu Sep 28 1995 17:42 | 17 |
| New Money! Yes crisp new 100 dollar bills are coming to a treasury near
you. From what I remember of the CNN blurb I heard last night, new
C-notes, with a bigger picture of Ben will be out soon. To follow in
approx 6 month intervals, will be 50's, 20's, and so on. Is this to
discourage those who counterfeit for a living, or...
Seems there is also some legislation in congress to "clean up" the
underground supply of money (the drug dealers, and other criminal types),
by making the "old" style money non-negotiable. Trade in your bucko's,
for the "new" bucko's. And if you have a whole lot of it, and don't
have an explanation as to why, the IRS, and other government agencies
will want to have a talk with you.
If someone can search the newsgroups, and find info, please post it
here.
Bob
|
| 90.31 | Tom's got a big mouth.... | PERFOM::LICEA_KANE | when it's comin' from the left | Fri Sep 29 1995 09:18 | 10 |
|
It's a ZOG/NWO conspiracy, it is. Zbignew and I were just talking
about it the other day. But you think too little. The new bills
have more advanced sensors. They can be scanned by the DSS sats.
I'm still a bit upset that the jokes I told over a Guinness
ended up getting broadcast yesterday.
-mr. bill
|
| 90.32 | Reh!! | DECWIN::RALTO | At the heart of the beast | Fri Sep 29 1995 12:12 | 9 |
| I saw a photo of the new $100 bill in the newspaper.
Ugliest damned thing I've ever seen. I'd be embarrassed to
carry around anything this grotesque. Hey, I know... it's
their way of promoting a cashless society! We'll all be happy
to have subcutaneous bank chips rather than carry around these
ugly bills.
Chris
|
| 90.33 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Pettin' & Sofa Settin' | Fri Sep 29 1995 12:17 | 2 |
| I love Canadian bills, especially the bright red 50 note with the snowy
owl on the back.
|
| 90.34 | | TROOA::COLLINS | Wave like a flag... | Fri Sep 29 1995 12:21 | 3 |
|
Face it, Glenn, you miss the $10 bill with Sarnia on the back.
|
| 90.35 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Pettin' & Sofa Settin' | Fri Sep 29 1995 12:23 | 1 |
| Well, er um, no. But I do miss the RCMP Musical Ride on the 50.
|
| 90.36 | | BUSY::SLABOUNTY | Act like you own the company | Fri Sep 29 1995 12:25 | 6 |
|
Just as Dick Binder will accept unwanted pennies, I am willing to
accept unwanted new-style $100 bills.
And I WILL pay postage, even if you ship the bills 1 at a time.
|
| 90.37 | | TROOA::COLLINS | Wave like a flag... | Fri Sep 29 1995 12:34 | 3 |
|
Have you got two tens for a five?
|
| 90.38 | | CSOA1::LEECH | Dia do bheatha. | Fri Sep 29 1995 15:27 | 3 |
| Yep, new bills are ugly. I doubt this will bother me too awfully much,
however, since I rarely carry one around with me.
|
| 90.39 | Like potato chips, they can't stop after just one | DECWIN::RALTO | At the heart of the beast | Fri Sep 29 1995 15:32 | 8 |
| But this is only the beginning... they're going to be re-designing
all of the bills over time. And if they're as uuuuuuuugly as this
thing, well, I'll just have to close my eyes whenever I pay for
something.
Which probably isn't a bad idea, actually.
Chris
|
| 90.40 | | CSC32::J_OPPELT | Wanna see my scar? | Fri Sep 29 1995 15:55 | 6 |
| A report I read in the News Briefs topic said that these won't
REPLACE the old bills -- at least the old ones won't be recalled
and will remain legal tender.
If this is true, then how will that address counterfeiting of
the old bills?
|
| 90.41 | | CALLME::MR_TOPAZ | | Fri Sep 29 1995 15:58 | 14 |
| re .40:
> the old ones will remain legal, tender.
The old ones that I'm thinking of might be legal, but I
certainly wouldn't classify them as tender.
_____________ _______ ________ _________ ______ _________ ________
/ __ __ // ___ \ /_______// ___ // ___ // ___ //_______/
/ / / / / // /__/ | / / / / / // /__/ // /__/ / _/ _/
�� / / / / / // __ _/ / / / / / // _____// ___ / _/ _/
/ / / / / // / \ \ / / / /__/ // / / / / / / /___
/__/ /__/ /__//__/ \__\ /__/ /________//__/ /__/ /__/ /_______/
|
| 90.42 | | DEVLPR::DKILLORAN | Uneasy Rider | Mon Oct 02 1995 09:31 | 9 |
|
> The old ones that I'm thinking of might be legal, but I
> certainly wouldn't classify them as tender.
I don't know T, the old ones I've "known" have been tender, and very
...eeerrr... well educated. ;-)
What was it Ben Franklin said about older women being better lovers?
|