Conference napalm::guitar

    I've been meaning to start an Epi note, myself. I have checked out 
    the Emperor, Sheraton, Les Paul, SG, Strat, and Accu-bass. They all
    seem to be great values, especially the Accu-bass which can be had
    for about $219. 
    
    I especially like the Sheraton, and Emperors, because they are
    original Epiphone models, not copies. They are very ornate, and
    come with plush-lined hard shell cases. Selling prices are around
    $500 for either of these. I mentioned the Epiphones in Dan Webers
    archtop note (#1016) and Dan commented that Epi's are pretty good
    value, but resale value would not be very good. I agree, but when
    you consider the cheap selling prices, resale value becomes moot.
    To get a Gibson Archtop comparable to the Emperor, you would have
    to spend in excess of $2000.
    
    The biggest dissapointment in the line is the '59 LP standard copy.
    The wood they are using on these is so plain, it has little or no
    curl to it. The sunburst staining is washed out. If I was to buy
    an Epi LP copy, it would probably be one of the LP custom copies,
    in white, gold, or some other color. In contrast, the wood they
    are using on the Emperor is quite stunning, especially on the
    ones with a light natural finish.
    
    I have played 2 Emperors, and both played very well. I have played 
    an Accu-bass, and it too played very well, especially for an axe
    with a selling price of $219. The SG standard is perhaps one of the
    best SG standards I have ever seen. 
    
    Despite my opinions of the current Epi's, I still would have a tendency
    to look for a good used Gibson before buying one, that is unless I
    could find a used Epi for a ridiculously low price.
    
    I am really quite surprised that Gibson is not advertizing the Epiphone
    line very aggressively. Come to think of it, they don't even advertize
    the Gibson line very aggressively either. Apparently, these guitars
    sell themselves.
    
    Great topic !!
    
    Mark

I've only seen/played one, a LP copy that belongs to J. So (who I'm sure 
will want to make some comments).

Overall it's a very pretty, good feeling, and sounding guitar.  However I 
did notice that their attention to detail might not have been as good as 
on a "real" Gibson.  Seemed like they might have skimped on a few things,
like the hardware and nut.  Just my impression.

I know that it didn't have the frets carefully leveled because I redid this 
to lower the action and there were several high and low ones.  Also, the 
truss rod adjustment seemed to only have an effect from about the 7th fret 
to the nut, which seemed very odd to me. 

I'd say they're worth the price, but check out the one you buy especially 
carefully to be sure it doesn't have any problems you can't live with.

Greg

    The only Epiphone les Paul I demoed was significantly lighter than my
    '76 Deluxe.  I wonder about the wood they used to build that "copy". 
    It seems to me if it was different, the tone would be affected.  The
    hardware looked a little "cheaper" to me as well, but it is a low end
    product.  My opnion is it's a pretty good value if you like the way it
    plays and sounds.
    
    FWIW,
    
    Steve

My buddy and counter part (Wayne) had an Epiphone semi-hollow
335 (a few years old mind you) that was just dreamland to play.

we couldn't find A THING to complain about, and both of us
being ES335 lovers, we sure as hell tried...

I'd say for the money, can't beat em with a tire tool..

    	I did a side by side comparison of the New Epiphones and New Gibson
    LP Standards a few months ago and to be honest I liked both guitars.
    
    The Gibson was definitely made from a different wood because it weighed
    about 3 lbs more than the epiphone.
    
    	Both guitars played really well. The action wass low and the neck
    felt pretty nice...(if you don't mind a painted neck) I only had them 
    plugged in to a Molecule sized practise amp so it wouldn't be fair for
    me to comment on their sound. No fret Buzzzzzz though.
    
    	I didn;t much care for the Tobacco sunburst on the
    Epiphone...looked really washed out...
    
    	In my Opinion these are 2 different guitars that look the same.
    They both play well, but if you prefer the feel of the Gibson and don't 
    mind the 700 + dollar price tags......buy the Gibson. On the other hand for
    200 dollars less your still getting s great guitar if you buy the
    Epiphone.
    
    	For some reason it always boils down to....If you like it and can
    afford it (or have room on the cards) then buy it.
    
    
    						Brian

    Net ate my reply, originally slated to be .3.  I'll try again!
    
    I own a cherry sunburst Epi L.P., and have for about a year.
    I saw it at one of my musical haunts, and picked it up, "Just
    to look at it. I mean, I'm not gonna buy it, or anything".
    
    This is a fine guitar all around. The finish is well done, with no 
    drips, runs, etc. The coloring is pleasing, almost a little "aged",
    but not too light of a sunburst. The top of this specimen is a fine
    example of curly maple, with AWESOME "tiger-striping". The action is
    low, clean and quiet. 
    
    I weighed this guitar, and it weighs 13.5 lbs., which is about average
    for an L.P. It's PLENTY heavy on my shoulder, even with an extra-wide
    git strap! The only things I did to this guitar to meet my personal
    specs. were to change the Kluson machines immediately (I HATE Kluson
    machines on anything), put on a new set of strings, and "top off"
    one fret that would kill some bent notes.
    
    The only problem I had with this guitar was when I tried to use 
    Super-Slinkies (.009 High E) instead of the regular SLinkies I normally
    use (010 high E). The scale length DOES NOT WORK with extra-light string 
    sets, period! This scale length has NEVER worked well with X-lights, 
    IMHO, no matter whether Kalamazoo, Memphis or Korea built the axe.
    
    Bill
     

    
    I own one, too, as Greg mentioned.  It's a cherry sunburst and I really
    don't have too many complaints at all.  Especially since I bought it 
    new for $512 with a hard case and including tax.  It's true what 
    Greg said about the frets, but the action that I had to compromise 
    to is not bad.  It's just about as close as my Ibanez.
    
    If I ever wanted the action closer, I think it's going to be just 
    a matter of taking it down to Rice Music and have them put it on 
    one of those heat fret board straighter dealies...
    
    I really like the tone, though.  I've compared this to an actual LP
    going for $1200 and I like the feel and the tone of Epi better!  The 
    biggest complaint I have about it is that it tends to feedback a lot 
    when using mega distortion and loudness.  I could fix that very easily 
    with EMG 85 at the neck and 81 at the bridge, tho...  I love the color 
    and the finish!  And of course, it wouldn't be a LP if it didn't weigh 
    a ton!
    
    I use the Floyd a lot, therefor I use the LP for only a few songs, but 
    if I wanted a LP for a main axe, I might have gone and bought a real
    thing, tho.  Who knows?  Epi is still a good axe.  
    
    J-Dot
    

    re .7: An idea to fix the feedback from your Epi if you wanted to hold
    off on changing the pickups is to stuff some foam padding underneath
    the pickups so that each pickup is tight. The one thing I thought I
    noticed about the pickups was that they were somewhat loosely mounted.
    I made a mental note that if I got the guitar that I'd probably have
    to fix that.  By stuffing foam underneath, the pickup is dampened thus
    eliminating microphonic feedback that can occur when you got the gain
    way up on your amp and boxes.
    
    I also have noticed that some sunburst finishes for the Les Paul model
    seem washed out, but that's personal. Some might think it looks aged
    when its that way, or maybe when the guitar does age it really looks
    like a vintage mellow instrument. I've seen both clear and washed
    finishes so you gotta pick what you like, they're not all the same.
    
    Besides the Les Paul model, I've also seen the SG, which I think is a
    really fine copy, in fact the best. I looked at a Gibson and a Epi
    side by side yesterday at Mr C's. From the looks, I could only tell the
    difference by the name on the headstock and the price tag.  I didn't
    play either though I have tried both on different (and separate)
    occaisions. Daddy's had a sale for them during the month of April for
    $279. They normally mark em at $319. Mr C's marked his for $399. So its
    obvious there's some room for negotiation. 
    
    "sakman"

    I liked the Epi LP copy at C's. It had a beter flame than the real LP.
    BTW I never failk to go Huh? every time I hear a LP player complain
    about weight, try lugging my ash baretta around, it's by far my
    heaviest bow , but I havn't got an LP yet so haven't weighed 'em.
    
    EP is ok. But if I had the bucks for an EP I'd cubby hole it and 
    save, then dig up a sale price LP and not be so picky about the 'right LP'.
    
    Of course, I am a wicked concieted snob, so what do you expect?
    Toe of the Foot Clan. Die Rat!
    

    You probably could find a nice used Gibson LP for the price of a new
    Epi LP........sumthin' to think about....I only have $415 in my 1976
    Deluxe and it's cherry!
    
    Steve

    What is an Accu-bass?? Can someone give a description.

    An Accu-bass is a clone of a Fender Precision...the name is a pun, I
    guess...
    
    							Brian

    It's sort of a P-bass clone, but has the slanted (hockey stick)
    style headstonk found on Jackson-Charvels, and other modern
    solid bodies.
    
    They play pretty damn good considering the rock-bottom price.
    The only thing weird about them that I noticed was the string
    spacing at the nut was kind of close. This could easily be
    changed if someone found it a problem.
    
    Mark
    

    
    	Hi.  I am looking around for a steel string acoustic (as opposed
    	to a classical - have one already).  Last night I stopped at
    	Hampshire Music to check out this month's "1/2 price, going out
    	of business sale".
    
    	I picked up an epiphone, I believe the # was PR350 (?).  New,
    	without case, $132.00  (1/2 list +$10).  They also had a used
    	Yamaha, I think FG410 (?).  That was $129 w/o case.
    
    	I tried 3 of the epiphones, and the yamaha.  I offered them
    	the $129 for the yam. if he threw in a used case.  No deal. 
    
    	Questions:
    
    		1.  What do you folks think about the epi. as opposed
    		    to something else?
    
    		2.  How about the prices?  Do they sound reasonable?
    
    		3.  If I put a bit more effort into this, can I do better?
    
    	Oh yeah.  Use.  I will be using it for general playing, camping,
    	etc.  So, don't need any megabuck guitars, couldn't live with
    	myself for hurting something like that.  My own feeling is that
    	I will spend up to around $200 for a decent long lasting, nice
    	sounding guitar.
    
    	If desired, I will give my impression of the above guitars, but
    	I would like your opinions to be unbiased by my opinions.
    
    	Thanks much, Glenn M. Roy
    

     yo buddy; check out the applause git' some guy's selling in 
    note 2.?  I think the price is right and for outdoor use you won't beat
    it.
    -Bill

    I tried out a new Epiphone model the other day in Daddy's Shrewsbury
    store. This model is a steel-string acoustic/electric which bears the 
    name Epiphone "Orville". It's a very interesting design, especially
    the headstock. The top of the headstock is round, and it has a
    Crescent moon with a star below it. This guitar features a rounded 
    cutaway, a pickup mounted under the saddle (ie: Fishman Transducer, 
    Martin Thinline, etc.), and a battery powered preamp with a slider 
    for gain, bass, mid, and treble. The preamp is mounted on the side
    in the curved area between the upper and lower bouts.
    
    The price was marked $249.00. I don't think this price included a 
    case. I played it both acoustically, and through an amp. It played
    and sounded very good in both modes. The only minor nit I could find
    was that the high E string was not quite as loud as the other strings
    through the amp. I've seen much more expensive instruments with the
    same problems, some were worse. A little eq would probably remedy
    this.
    
    Overall, this is a good playing guitar, and very interesting to look
    at, especially the headstock. For someone on a low budget, I'd
    recommend it highly.
    
    
    I'm a little surprised to see the name Orville on an Epi, since this 
    is the first name of Gibson's founder. They could have saved this
    name for a high-end Gibson acoustic, but they probably figured they
    wouldn't sell enough to make it worthwhile. An American-made acoustic
    with these features and the fancy headstock inlays would have to be
    priced over $1k. At that price Gibson probably wouldn't sell many.
    
    The Emperor still catches my eye every time I see one. Have any of
    you checked out prices on Gibson archtops lately ? I have ! I'd love
    an ES175 or some of their other models, but prices start well over
    $800 for used instruments.
    
    Mark
                             

    Speaking of Gibson, as I mentioned under the Leo R.I.P. topic, I
    recently purchaced Tom Wheeler's new (revised?) The American Guitar
    book. It contains a HUGE section on Gibson. I haven't read too much of
    that part yet, but it promises to be pretty interesting, especially if
    you're a Gibson lover.

    BTW, I too would love an ES175! In the early seventies I played in a
    band with a guy that had one (mid-sixties vintage) and a blackface Super
    Reverb. A truly great combination! I've secretly lusted after one ever
    since.
    
    --ron

    Damn, nothing to satisfy my GTS over Christmas. I did however go down
    to Hampshire Music the other day. I've had my eye on Les Pauls lately.
    Well, Harry's got a Les Paul Std. It's nice, I like the color, this
    could most definitely be my friend for awhile if I brought it home.
    While I was there, I noticed he also had a Epiphone LP copy. So I,
    tried an A/B compairson. God I hate playin' in a music store. The
    freakin amp never sounds right, some buthead kid is dickin around with
    megadistortion blastboost, another dude is in the corner tryin' an
    acoustic, the radio is blasting, etc. All this would drive me insane if
    I worked there.
    
    Anyway, the LP was not even close to being in tune so my comparison was
    really limited to the axe's look. Except for the headstock, I could
    hardly find a difference between the two. I thought the LP might be a
    slight bit heavier, but I might have imagined that. The Lp also had
    fatter frets, but not by much. For either the weight or the frets, If I
    weren't looking with a close eye, I'd never have noticed.
    
    I did play the Epiphone. Sounded great, and played like a fine
    instrument. I played on some Yamaha jobbie that competes with a Fender 
    Twin. Now, given the circumstances of playing on that amp and in a
    Music store, I can't say this guitar will give me the Allman Bros tone
    I'm looking for. But I will say this, for $330 (List/2+$10) for an
    absolutely beautiful axe that plays great and sounds great in its own
    rite, it strikes me as a great value. Sure, $500 more and I could be
    sure that I had the right tool for the sound I'm looking for. But
    goddam - 500 bucks?!!!!
    
    But see, here's the thing (and this part of what I call the curse of
    being a guitar player), I'd bet I'd play that sonofabitch for a year or
    two and for some imagined reason, I'd be looking at something else. Maybe 
    even a guitar that did say Gibson on the headstock. And the other thing
    is neither one of 'em are gonna do anything different than my current
    guitar does for me. I gotta keep focused on my objective when I go into
    a music store these days, "I'll take a pack of strings please".
    
    "sakman"    
            

    Well, I've probably said this before, but I knew a guy that had an
    Epiphone Les Paul and I didn't think it sounded nearly as good as a
    real one.  Played nice and looked great though.  Maybe with different
    pickups it would have been better, I don't know.
    
    Greg

    That's always a tough call, between a "knock-off" by the same
    manufacturer, maybe built in the same factory, maybe same parts,
    big price delta.  What do you do?
    
    I'll tell you one difference between a Gibson Les Paul and an Epiphone
    Les Paul --- resale value.  That means that if you never sell it, and
    there's no difference in tone or playability, you win with the Epi.
    
    But when the nagging doubt monster sets in, and you decide to upgrade
    to the "real" headstock, you'll never get your investment back on the
    trade-in unit (unless you've earned money playing it).
    
    When I was in the market for a Les Paul, I played the same game...
    Heritage, Epiphone, Gibson, maybe a Standard instead of a Custom, etc.
    I stuck with the Gibson LP Custom because of the greed monster.
    
    Soon I hope to buy a Strat type for my collection.  Same rationale...
    buy a USA Fender American Standard Stratocaster and be done with it.
    Pick a color.
    
    When I was in the market for an acoustic-electric in 1990, I bought a
    Martin Shenandoah model (import parts, Nazareth factory, lifetime
    warranty, built-in 332 Thinline pickup).  Well, did I buy a Martin, or
    not?  Should I have spent another $800 and gotten a "real" Martin 
    (non-Shenandoah) and had a pickup installed?  Should I trade it?
    Will it ever be worth anything?  It plays nice, but.....? ? ?
    
    After I made that purchase, I decided to buy the "best" I could afford,
    and to buy the "real" thing whenever possible.
    
    On the other hand, I have two used oriental clones, an LP and a Strat
    style, that I love to play and that sound nice.  I paid less than $200
    for both.  But if I ever really need firewood... :7)
    
    Some people are not as materialistic as I am.  Most are more.
    \Gary

    regarding the resale:
    
    Well check me out on this. If I bought a Gibson for say 800, and was
    able to get $500 on a resale, there's not much difference between
    that *rental* and a owning an Epi and just keep the damn thing. 
    
    Now you might say, oh yeah but you might get 600 in a resale. I
    wouldn't say that's impossible, but it always seems like when I wanna
    get rid of something I want to move it fast because I got my eye on
    something else. And to hear the sorry trade in story "well see we just
    don't get many requests for *this* guitar anymore. Hell I got two of 'em
    hangin over there and they haven't moved for months." 
    
    Save the Business Principles 101 lecture fellas, I know I'd be the same
    were I the proprietor. What I'm really sayin is that GTS sucks!!! I
    want this, gotta settle for that cause its a better value, and then
    sometime down the road, I gotta get something else cause it's
    different. 
    
    But back to the topic, one thing I think I'd do if I did get either the
    lp or the Epihione, I'd change the pickups. I always do. I'd probably
    put in DiMarizio's too. I *almost* always use DiMarzio's.
    
    "sakman"

    
    The only thing that helps a bad case of GTS is a good dose of patience. 
    Let somebody else buy it new and you buy it from them when they're
    lusting after some new piece.  If you want a custom, pick up the want
    ads and find the guy who's selling his to buy the latest toy.
    

    
    GTS is a serious disease - maybe we should put a telethon together or
    something.  Over the holidays, Andy & I picked up an Epiphone Sheraton
    and a Les Paul custom.  Both are beautiful instruments, and we're very
    happy with them.  Now all we gotta do is stay out of the stores...
    
    

 Can somebody give me an idea on how much a fairly new Epiphone Les Paul would
go for? I haven't seen the guitar, a friend of mine is looking to sell one.  I
don't know what bells and whistles it has on it, so perhaps we can assume it is
a "standard"?




Jim

    I wouldn't pay more than about $275 for a good used one with a
    case.....used Gibson Les Pauls can still be found in pawn shops in the
    $450 to $600 range......
    
    Steve

    As I remember the Epi's go for around $450-$500 new, so let that guide
    your used price.
    
    gh

I paid $600 for mine with a Hamer Les Paul case back three years ago(it was new)
FWIW.

Jmystr

I'm contemplating an Epiphone,
Looking for some opinions..

Got my Eyes on a Sheraton II

This is an Archtop (ala ES335) with gold hardware...

I've played em, the play nice, sound good 
and they're wicked pretty..

I think their in the 600 price range with a hard case..

Anyone have experinces to share ??

    Played several in music stores; very nice axe for the money.
    I'd look for one used for really low dough.
    

    A friend of mine had an opportunity to buy one for chump change. 
    He passed. If I had known he wasn't serious about buying it, I
    would have grabbed it in a heartbeat.
    
    This particular Sheritan was mint. It was sunburst with a brand new
    hardshell case with wine-red lining. The guy was asking $300 but 
    would have accepted $250. My buddy still hasn't heard the end of this. 
    
    BTW, Sheritans are more or less Gibson ES355's, not 335's. The 355 
    has the fancy inlays, gold hardward, bound neck with block inlays,
    etc.  The neck on this particular Sheritan was a 5-ply and had a
    great feel to it. It sounded awesome through a Fender Champ.
    
	Most Sheritans are imports, but Gibson made a limited run of
    these in the US. The US version has the old-style Synchromatic
    tailpiece. The import has a stop bar.
    
    	Personally, I wouldn't buy one new. At $600 they will not hold
    this value for long. A good used one should be a steal at $250 - $300.
    
    	Mark

    A bandmate of mine plays an Epi 335 copy. I'm not sure if it's a
    Sheritan or not. This axe absolutely blows my mind. He recently bought
    a Crate Vintage 30 to play it thru. Tone from Hell. Freddie King will
    never die with this rig around.
    On the other hand, I read in this conference somewhere that there are
    some really great Epi's out there as well as some pretty bad ones. Take
    a good look at what you decide on before the big purchase. May be
    comparing a few of these wouldn't be a bad idea.
    
    =kev  

    Epiphone also reissued the Casino which is the equivalent to a Gibson
    ES335. At one time, I was considering buying a Emperor. 
    
    The concensus seems to be pretty positive for Epiphone, however, I
    would recommend you shop used. 
    
    Mark
    

    the "Joe Pass" model is another beauty of a guitar.
    
    
    						Ian

I did play a Joe Pass model,, 

Very nice, there's a used "Joe Pass" (Natural) in 
the store I haunt, the guy who owned it put it up as
trade bait for the Sheraton...    Very pretty
and DEAD mint..  not a mark on it...

but I think I'm gonna stick with the hunt for the Sheraton,
I really like this one..

I think the price I was quoted was $550, new from
Dave,  so around 300 sounds about right for a used one.

and if ya have a chance check the Gibson Mall on the
web, they're offering the Sheraton II for $1,028 direct
mail order ????  Sort-of outragousely high...

    Has anyone seen one of the 1939 Epiphone Emperor reissue models?
    This supposedly has a carved top and is fully acoustic. I've
    seen pictures in a catalog, but have never encountered one in
    the flesh.
    
    Mark 

In the 1995 catalouge there's an Emperor Regent with
F holes, (no round whole) and a mini humbucker aft-neck.

Tone/Vol controls on pickgaurd...  Strings in the pix
look to be light or medium gauge elec.  Pretty nice
looking piece, single cut-away ala Joe Pass with
a staggered tailpeice.  Not sure if it's an 'acoutsic'
or just a fancy single HB Archtop.  looks sort-a like
a single cut-a-way version of the Riviera.. The top
is listed as Select Spruce, so may it is intended to be
an acoustic....

There is another one that looks more like a traditional
acoustic (round hole cutout, single cut-a-way) with the 
same mini humbucker aft-neck as the Regent., and that one 
is dubbed, The "Howard Roberts"..  VERY pretty...  all
gold h.w. strings appear to be Phospher Bronze Acoustic
from the pix...  maybe this is the one you're talking about..


There's also a Semi Hollow Les Paul too,, That looks 
interesting....

/pelks..

    I played one of the Emperor Regents described in .-1.  It looked, felt
    and sounded pretty nice, but feedback was a serious problem at what
    I thought were unreasonably low volume levels.  That problem may be
    endemic to archtops with suspended pickups, though.
    
    Paul

    I tried a couple of Epi Nighthawks, and neither did anything for me.
    The 1st Nighthawk I played was a 3-pickup Gibson, and it was awesome!
    
    I ended up buying a 2-pickup Gibson NH for just a couple bucks more than
    an Epi 3-pickup Nighthawk sells for.
    
    Larry 
    

   I've played the "Joe Pass Emperor II", the "Howard Roberts", and several
   Sheraton models.  They're all real pretty, and are worth every bit of the
   money compared to Gibsons of a similar type.  The only thing you'd lose on
   is resale value, which I consider to be of very little concern when making 
   a new guitar purchase.  I rarely sell my old stuff, after all.  :-) 
   Besides, it should be a lust thing.

   The H.R. I played was the most "50s style" of the bunch.  Floating neck-
   only pickup, arched/carved(?) top, round/flattened soundhole, "floating"
   pickguard with controls mounted on it, etc.  It was also the best sounding
   of the bunch.  The place I saw it is generally pretty good with their
   prices, and the H.R. was marked $689, with the J.P. - which wasn't nearly as
   nice sounding as the H.R., but more flexible - at $589.  I didn't see a
   Sheraton at this place, but I've seen 'em for  around $475-500 new, with
   case.  Compare that to a $1200 (or more?) ES355.  I've had the chance to
   play these two side x side too, and the Gibbo does sound better, but I'm not
   sure it's $750 better...  Another reason not to be so concerned about
   resale.

   And, after all this "playing around" (just don't tell my wife! :-)) I've
   decided I really am a solid-body kinda guy, after all.  As much as I like
   the sound and looks of the semi- and full hollowbodies, they are limited in
   their flexibility (they seem to only get "one sound", changed only slightly
   by reselecting pickups) and potential volume (due to feedback - esp. the
   full hollowbodies).

   -- Sam

 <I didn't see a Sheraton at this place, but I've seen 'em 
 <for  around $475-500 new, with case.

wow! That's REALLY low...

If you check the Gibson Web page, and cruise their
Internet Mall you can order a Sheraton II for $1,028!!
(such a deal from the factory huh ???)

Anyways, from what I've seen, the Sheraton II's list for 
something like $929...  So I'm wondering,, is there a Sheraton,
and a Sheraton II ?  Or is there just the Sheraton II.

The S-II has all gold hardware and a really pretty 
inlay in the headstock..

I think BRAND new, with the Epi case, it's looking
like  high 500s low 600s...  They come in Tobaco S.B.
White, Black, and Natural.   

And the one's I've noddled with play really nice, and I
thought they sounded great,,,...  I'll probably pick one
up eventually for a change of pace...

    I've played 3 different Joe Pass Emperors and all three were in
    dreadful playing condition.  All three needed neck adjustments
    (which wouldn't have bothered me too much), but two of them had
    more serious problems: loose frets, a high spot on the fretboard,
    poorly finished (and sharp!) frets...  They did look nice.  They
    played so badly, though, I didn't even try to evaluate the sound.
    
    Maybe it was just a fluke...  
    
    Jim

    I dunno about that "fluke" thang. I also played one of those JP models
    and it was brutal. It buzzed terribly, all over. I agree that they look
    nice , but I defenitly don't think that too much "quality time" was put
    into these gits before they hit the stores.
    
    fwiw,
    
    kev

    I think a Sheraton II is a Nashville-made guitar, but I wouldn't swear
    to it.
    
    Danny W.

I played a Joe Pass just last week..

Played great...
  so who knows..

    	Was down a Steve's this weekend and noticed a Tele style Epi. It
    had a HB in the neck position and a SC at the bridge. What got me
    about this guitar, besides the $289 (Can.) price tag, was the weight of
    it. It was a very solid little unit. It also had an all natural finish,
    and a maple neck. The headstock was explorer style. Machine heads
    looked of fairly good quality as well. Can't say the same for the
    bridge hardware though. 
    Anyways, has anyone seen one of these? I'm just looking for some
    feedback and comments on it. 
    It also had "limited edition- made in Korea" on the neck plate. 
    
    -kev  

that would be the T-310 Custom...

The only thing I don't like about this one is the
headstocks on the 310 series... 

udder than that, it's probably a great buy for the
money. 

Hey.. speaking of Epiphone,, I picked up a Sheraton a
few weeks ago... NICE! Real nice..  Plays REAL PURRTY
TOO!...

I had to order it, under the stipulation that if
I don't like it, and it's not a set up problem, I don't
take it..  The store agreed, and ordered it.

It showed up two fridays ago. It's flawless, and played
alright, right from the factory..  I had my bud Dave
at Action in Leom. set it up, and intonate it.
after about an hour of fiddling with it in the store,
it was sold...  I luv it...  it's about all I've played
since taking it home...  big-n-comfy, nice-n warm sounding,
machine heads nice and smooth, volume and tone pots real
quite, and the frets are really clean, nice finish, cool
case, pretty much a complete package..

At anyrate, figured I'd post my braggin rights...  This
is one nice piece..  I really wouldn't hesitate to seriously
look at another epiphone, although the Sheraton is just about
the only Epi that caught my eye, (yea the JP and the Emporer are
cool too but, not really for me..),,, 

although I can't get too many more bright ideas,, the toy bank is 
sufficently busted and the stock pile of old stuff to boot out is 
toast at this point..  so I'm done  for now anyways.

Now the only problem is which guitar to bring to rehersal????

/r

    
    
    Congrats. BTW, what finish did you get?
    
    Mark

Tobacco Sunburst...

The come in White, (naw,,) Black, (nope..) 
Natural,, (hmmmmm.. maybe) and TBS...

Purtty....!

   I just fell in lust again.  You know the scene - stop by a music store
   for something minor, "just look", and the next thing you know it's all
   you can think about....

   Didn't get the model name/number.  It's a "sort of" Strat shaped body
   (more like a PRS, actually), solid body, bolt on 22 fret neck, solid
   tailpiece, single/single/humbucker EMGs (I think), 5 pos. switch, maple
   neck/fingerboard, highly grained top with dark gray translucent finish
   (VERY PRS, now that I think about it).  Selling price, $350 new.  Man, 
   I wish I didn't have so many other projects I need to spend money on!

   -- Sam

   P.S.  Somebody buy my Gibson and/or Jasmine!  :-)

    Sell me ur fender...cheap!
    
    :-)

re: 50.. Hmm, that's  not listed in my 95 catlouge...

But speaking of lusting...

there's a dead mint LP100 studio at Gordons in Leom/Fitch
for 295 w/case...  Action is set nice -n- low, and didn't
buzz....  Sort of a Sunburst,,, really nice shape...

good buy..

   re: Coop:  See your own personal name.  :-)

   re: .52  Oops, I must hang my head in shame.  It's not even an Epiphone.
            Wrong topic, sorry.

   It is, believe it or not, an:

   

   	Alvarez!

   Yep, Alvarez seems to have gotten into the electric market, at about the
   same quality level or their recent acoustics.  That is, well made, but
   far (?) lesser priced than the old Alvarez/Yari line.  I've got one of
   their 12 strings.

   I didn't catch whether it was made in Japan or Korea, but I'm pretty sure
   it's one of the two.  It's very light, and I was also wrong about the
   neck: it's maple with a rosewood board.  "Alvarez" labelled pickups,
   probably EMGs.

   It's almost embarrasing to be this turned on by a $350 guitar, but I
   really like it.  We'll see how things pan out.  

   -- Sam

    Music One in Billerica MA has an Epiphone Casino in an unusual
    "sea green" kind of color, that just about brought me to my knees.
    It was tagged at over $700 (I forget the exact amount), which seemed
    pretty steep for an Epi, but what do I know...
    
    Fortunately, the mental image of an infuriated spouse quickly brought
    me back to reality.  :-)
    
    Chris

    
    re-1
    
    aaah,the infuriated spouse syndrome....
    
    
    
    been there,done that...couldn't handle it again! 8)
    
    
    							ian

   < Music One in Billerica MA has an Epiphone Casino in an unusual
   < "sea green" kind of color, that just about brought me to my knees.
   < It was tagged at over $700 (I forget the exact amount), which seemed
   < pretty steep for an Epi, but what do I know...
    
  
That feels pretty steep...

The Casino is a stripped down ES335-alike...  no bindings,
chrome hardware, standard tuning keys...... etc..

Given I paid $650 for the Sheraton, (guitar, case, tax..
and the going price for the sheraton with out dickering
is around $780 something...) the Casino ought to be closer 
to $500, or there abouts, if you're trying to get around 40%
off..

If you're interested in finding out more price wise,
let me know,,,,  I can get you a solid idea on what you 
should expect to pay reasonably...

    That's good info on the Casino and Sheraton, thanks... I'd been
    thinking around $550 for the Casino might be reasonable.  In any
    event, I can't buy another guitar until I hit a birthday that ends
    in either a "5" or a "0", by more-or-less mutual agreement. :-)
    
    The Sheraton does seem nicer than the Casino, actually, now that
    I see them side-by-side.  I should try to find a "comparative
    features" guide... the specs at the Gibson web site don't seem
    all that informative to make comparisons.
    
    Thanks,
    Chris

< I'd been thinking around $550 for the Casino might be reasonable.  

That is a better ball park cost. (that ought to include
the case too)  If I get a chance, I'll check this weekend.


<    The Sheraton does seem nicer than the Casino, actually, now that
<    I see them side-by-side.  I should try to find a "comparative
<    features" guide... the specs at the Gibson web site don't seem
<    all that informative to make comparisons.

The differences are:

	Sheraton has lamintaed maple body and top with a 5 peice
	malpe neck, and 2 humbers.  (of course, all the pretty stuff
	too like the bindings, gold hardware and the Vine inlay on
	the headstock.)

	The Casino has a laminated maple body, with a lam. spruce
	top, mahagony neck, 2 P90s, (and Chrome hardware, no bindings, no 
	inlay.. I also *think* the casino has a trapeze tailpiece, where
	the sheraton is a stop piece (like a 'paul..)

One of my friends that plays comment that he thought the sheraton
was the nicer of the line Epihpone made,,, he's probably owned
6 epiphones in his time, so not sure how to read that...

I know that I like mine, (except I don't like the Pickgaurd with the
BIG WHITE E!) and at the cash register, it costs way less than
an ES355,,  Plays great, sounds nice,, I like it!

If I get a chance to stop in to the store I got my Shearton,
I'll check the Casino price and reply here..

lata...

	Anyone have any experience with the EPI Chet Atkins? Thats the
	nylon string classical. I see them selling for around $400 and was 
	wondering how they compare to the Gibson model?

	Thanks,
	John

Not sure about that specific model, but for the average,
the Epiphones hold up pretty well when you compare them..

Once you have them side by side, you can see the Gibson's
are a bit cleaner, tighter tolerances where parts meet,
the finish is somewhat better,

Again, I've not seen a Chet Atkins, but if that model follows
inherent Epiphone, I'd bet you'd be happy with it..

    
    The major differances between Gibson and Epiphone imports are as
    follows:
    
    	Fret-dress: Gibson tends to do a much better job dressing
        frets on their USA-made instruments than the importers do
    	on Epiphone instruments. If you are good with a fret file,
    	or don't mind spending a few extra bucks for a luthier you
    	can clean up the frets on an Epi and it will make a big
    	improvement on playability. 
    
    	Parts: Some people think that "parts is parts" but there
     	is a differance between the parts on a Gibson and the
    	parts used on the Epiphones. The biggest differances are
    	in the pickups and the tuning machines. Most Gibsons come
    	through with either Kluson (vintage style) or Grover tuners.
        The Epiphones generally use an imported style tuner. You also 
        get much better plating on Gibson parts overall. Electrical
    	components such as switches and pots are also much better
    	on Gibsons. I've seen people replace the parts on an Epi 
    	until they have essentially upgraded it to Gibson Specs.
    	The cost of doing this is non-trivial especially if you
    	replace the pickups. 
    
    	The same differances are noted between USA made Fenders and
    	the imported Fenders.
    
    	    Mark

    Thanks for the Gibson/Epi comparison info in the last few replies.
    My next guitar will probably be a Sheraton, but (wahhh) I'll have
    to wait a couple of years for the "5/0 year rule".  :-)
    
    Chris

Well, it'll be worth the wait, you'll like it..

check out,

	HTTP://www.gibson.com/products/epiphone/archtop/archtop.html

They're all there...

have fun..

lata..

/r

    I was thumbing through the latest Daddy's listing last night and came
    upon an Epiphone "Chet Atkins" model.  Might this be Epi's copy of the
    Gibson Chet Atkins? (Which is, in turn, a Gibson in Gretsch clothing)
    ....;^)....seriously, I think I might like to try one of these; has
    anyone seen one?
    
    						--Eric--
    
    P.S. For the uninitiated, the Gibson Chet Atkins is a hollow body thin-
    line with a single cutaway, "neo-classic" fret markers, two humbuckers
    and a Bigsby - sort of a Gibson "Country Gentleman" :^]
    
    P.P.S. Does Epiphone have a catalog?

    The only Epi "Chet" I know of is a clone of the Chet Atkins
    classical/electric and/or SST clone-- acoustic/electric guitars,
    not hollowbody electrics.
    
    Jim

re: Does Epiphone have a catalouge..

Yep!  Check out WWW.GIBSON.COM, click on Instruments, go to
the Epiphone page, and click on ORDER NEW CATALOUGE...

>    P.S. For the uninitiated, the Gibson Chet Atkins is a hollow body thin-
>    line with a single cutaway, "neo-classic" fret markers, two humbuckers
>    and a Bigsby - sort of a Gibson "Country Gentleman" :^]
>    

Actually, this would be a part of the CHET ATKINS Series from GMI..
Gibson has about 8 guitars in this 'series' and among them
are the Tennessean, the Country Gent, as well as a few of the acoustics
and a few more semi-holow eletrics.

The Epiphone Chet Atkins is a thin body sold electric/acoustic (nylon
string) pretty much a knock off of the original Chet Atkins electric 
acoustic from Gibson.

Check out the  gibson web site, you can see the whole line of Gibson
and epihone there...

/ray

    re. last couple
    
    Thanks for the replies.  I forgot about those solid-body "acoustic" jobs.
    
    Our computer isn't hooked up to the Web, but my daughter's is ... I'll
    just ask her to get a catalog for ol' Dad ;^)
    
    Eric-who-STILL-would-like-a-Country-Gentleman

you may like to have the guitar, but I doubt you'd enjoy
paying for it!

:^)

you can also get Epiphone catalouges at the dealers...
Not sure where you live, but I know of a few places
around my area where they're readily available.

I went to the web site this afternoon, but I couldn't
get back to the catalouge order button,,, I don't think
they've changed it, just couldn't find it, you may have
to go gropping... It was there though, cuz I've got one
in my office that I snapped off the web..

/pelkster

>you may like to have the guitar, but I doubt you'd enjoy
>paying for it!
>
>:^)
    
    Amen to that....
    					--Eric--

    See note 1257 for more Gretsch talk. 
    
    Mark

    Has anyone had the oppurtunity to try an Epi Emperor Regent locally
    here in New England?  I recieved a Musicians Friend Catalog last night
    that had a picture of one. The price was around $850 with case. 
    
    I'm wondering if the quality of wood used in these is higher than some
    of the other Epi's I've seen....?
    
    Rick
    

I've not had a chance to actually play one either Rick,
but my buddy Dave, (his store is/was an api-dealer)
claims that for the money, it's a GREAT buy..  I'd
go on Dave's recomendation any day, the guy knows his
stuff. 

I beleive the top is select spruce, where if you look at
the specs for the other Epiphone archtops they're all 
listed as laminated.

You'll definetly not want to make an REAL decision
unless the gutiar has been set up..  They don't generally
come setup too well from the factory.

I've got an Emperor as my next 'most likely' guitar.
Of course, there's Jumbo Guild acoustic that's been
catching me eye... but probably would still pick
up the Emperor...  if you find one, let me know, I'd
like to try one out too.. 

(There's a guy on USENET (ALT.GUITAR) that's selling
a blonde one, he's asking 750 for it, but I think $600
would buy it..)

    
    	What about the Riviera model ? Wulitzer's sells one for
    650.00...what is the difference between the Riviera and the Sheraton?
    MDW sells the Sheraton for 549.00 and Riviera for 609.00...
    
    	Why not just buy a Samick....saw one last week, looks just like
    the Sheraton, wanted 500.00 but a mail-order could be had for 412.00...

Riviera - chrome hardware 1.62 nut, trapeze tail piece
	  mahogony neck, less binding

Shearton - Gold hardware 1.68 nut, tune-o-matic bridge
	   binding, maple neck...

price wise anyones guess

    "Sherman, set the Way Back machine for..."
    
    Thanks to Dear Old Dad, who no longer plays, I am now the proud
    new owner of an old Epiphone.  I'm trying to date the beast and I've
    had no help at the Epiphone web page.  I'd like to find out it's age
    as well as the Gibson model it most closely resembles.  If any of you
    puzzle solvers can help, here's what I know:
    
    		Inside I can see a label with this info:
    
    			E252
    			Broadway
    			849089
    			Epiphone Guitar Company
    			Kalamazoo, MI
    
    		And here's the description of the guitar:
    	
    		single cutaway archtop
    		bound body and neck
    		(don't know the neck scale, but it's quite narrow at the
    		 nut)
    		floating bridge (not permanently attached to top)
    		split (compensated?) trapeze tailpiece
    		2 f holes
    		floating pickguard with "E" logo on it
    		two pickups (neck and bridge)
    			(don't know if they're humbuckers or P90s)
    		three-way selector switch on upper bout
    		two volume, two tone pots arranged as on Les Pauls
    		jack on bottom side
    		square MOP inlays on neck fret markers
    		Epiphone MOP inlaid on headstock along with some sort of
    			logo (not the usual "E" Epiphone logo). It looks
    			like some sort of pedestal with a half-round object
    			on top of it (hard to describe)
    		there are NO numbers inscribed anywhere on the headstock
    		there is NO access plate on the back
    
                                           

by today's models, you've described something
that would be similar to what the Joe Pass
model is today.,

my best guess, it would have been some sort
of Emporer, or possibly a Triumph...

Sounds like a USA built one too,, I'll bet it's
a honey!

    What's the mystery? It's a Broadway made in the Gibson factory.
    Probably early-60's. The skinny neck is common for this era.
    
    Chances are, Tom Wheeler's book "American Guitars" will have
    a write-up including serial numbers and other specs. This is
    probably a laminated top guitar as apposed to a solid spruce
    top.
    
    Lucky score. I wish someone would give me a nice guitar like 
    you've described. Enjoy!
    
    Mark

    Mystery?  Well, maybe not, but even labels can lie.
    
    I'll check out "American Guitars" for details.  This guitar is slimmer
    than the Joe Pass and Emperors that I've seen, but for all that it has
    a surprisingly balanced tone between the lows and the highs.  The top
    _is_ laminated by the looks of the cross-section at the f-holes.
    
    I've run it through my Crate CA-125D acoustic amp and it sounds better
    (more natural) than my piezo-equipped Washburn acoustic.  And through
    my Peavey Special 130 with the pre-gain and presence cranked, it really
    growls.  I haven't been able to try it at volume on the Peavey or 
    through my Deluxe Reverb yet.  The DR was the amp my Dad used with
    this guitar for a long time and at modest volumes it is sweet and
    clean,  but of course, I want to see what happens when the volume knob
    moves past 5, he he he.  Should be able to draw some way cool tones out
    of it then.
    
    This is no museum piece, FWIW.  It's got a horrible patch on the back
    where belt buckles have worn all the finish off and there's a lot of
    checking of the finish all over.  The frets are mostly all quite flat
    and those below the 5th fret have various amounts of string groove in
    them.  The MOP inlays on the fingerboard could stand cleaning, but the
    binding has the kind of yellowed patina that can only come from long
    nights in smoky bars (at least that's the way I like to think of it,
    romantic that I am... ;-))
    
    This is a working guitar and I hope to keep it that way.
    

    
    
    Does this help?
    
    http://www.amug.org/~necro/clay/epiphon2.html
    
    1958 Broadway Electric specs:
            Gibson made, cutaway model. 
            Acoustic model discontinued. 
            Fat column peghead inlay. 
            2 New York pickups. 
    
        1961 Broadway Electric specs:
            2 Mini-humbucking pickups. 
            Tunematic bridge. 
    
    

    Thanks Kevin,  that's very helpful.
    
    It sounds like I have the 1958 specs (floating bridge, fat column
    peghead etc.)  So mine should fall between 1958 and 1961.  Does
    anyone know how to identify "New York" pickups or how they differ from
    the mini-humbuckers?
    
    	Rick

    The serial number section of the web page in .-2 places my guitar in
    1962 (the year after I was born, cool huh?).
    
    It has the mini-humbucking pickups (these are Gibson-made and
    apparently have better sound than the "New York" pickups made by
    Epiphone), "Frequensator" tailpiece.  I still need to get a dollar
    figure, but the information I found at this site was outstanding.
    
    	Thanks again for all the help.
    
    	R 

    Rick,
    
    Try http://www.gibson.com/fog/vintage/vintage.html
    
    
    This will date and price your new aquisition..  :^)
    
    Rick

    Thanks, but I tried that early on.  It seems that page, while taken
    from the Vintage Guitar magazine, is strictly Gibson products and does
    not include Epiphone (or any other subsidiary product).
    
    	Rick

    re: Epi Emperor Regent
    
    >I beleive the top is select spruce, where if you look at
    >the specs for the other Epiphone archtops they're all
    >listed as laminated.
       
    Gibson/Epi may refer to it as "select spruce" but that doesn't mean 
    that it is solid (and carved) spruce.  I'm fairly sure the Emperor 
    Regent has a pressed laminated spruce top.
    
    Jim

    Yeah, "select" seems to be one of those codewords used by mfgs, typically
    to denote a lower quality than the feature it modifies.  "Select hardwoods"
    is another common example.
    

re: .96

>    Yeah, "select" seems to be one of those codewords used by mfgs, typically
>    to denote a lower quality than the feature it modifies.  "Select hardwoods"
>    is another common example.
    
"Select" is a real term used in wood grading.  It isn't the highest grade,
though.

-Hal

    I also wonder if some of the older Epi's that were made by Gibson
    in Kalamazoo were pressed spruce tops? As were there Gibson
    equivalents?  For example Epi Triumph Regent as compared to
    the same year Gibson L7c?
    
    Rick
    

    On the subject of misleading advertising sales claims (and Epiphone
    related)...
    
    I received a new AMS catalog the other day.  I was rather amused by
    the "review" of Epiphone Les Paul guitars it contained.  The
    (uncredited) author wrote how he had always wanted a Gibson Les Paul but
    could not afford one.  Someone suggested he try an Epi, but he never
    did-- he wanted a *real* LP.  Then someone told him the story of how
    Les Paul had made his first electric guitar from an Epiphone archtop
    that he had split in half and inserted a 4x4 (Les's "log" guitar).
    The implication was that since Les had experimented with Epiphone
    guitars, that an Epi LP was just as real as a Gibson.
    
    Of course, other than the name, the Epiphone of today has no direct
    connection to the company that created the guitar that Les modified.
    
    Then the review states that Les eventually persuaded Gibson to move
    forward with his ideas, leading to the production of "the first solid
    body guitar in 1952."  I hope that they really meant to say "Gibson's
    first solid body guitar" since Leo Fender had already been building
    solid body electrics for a few years (not to mention the Rickenbacker
    "frying pan," etc.)
    
    Jim

According to my source, the emporer has a solid
top, hence the price tag (close to $900 at 40% off
list)

but who really knows...

    If I remember correctly, both the Acoustic Guitar and Guitar Player
    reviews of the guitar indicated the top was laminated spruce.  
    Re: price.  Actually, the  $900 price tag makes me tend to believe it 
    is *not* solid.  A solid spruce top on an arch top is typically carved-- 
    a very labor intensive operation.  Bending a solid top doesn't
    generally work real well, although Martin and other have tried it.
    
    If I get a chance I'll double check the Acoustic Guitar write-up.
    
    Jim

don't really know, and not 100% how much it would really
matter anyway,,,,  I've never tried one of these, but
I'd like to, (Emperor Regent..)

Looks like Epi has expanded their line for 97..

Adding new Archtops, adding to their les paul line,
and adding some new signature series, adding lots
of Bigsby units, (guess they're staging a comback..)

Looks like they've reissued the Broadway, issued a new
Sheraton (staggered trapeze like the original) putting
P90s in lots of guitars) and put up a new black beauty
with a bigsby.

New amps, new electircs, new acoustics and yep, a price
increase..

    re: previous notes on the materials used for the Emperor Regent...
    
    According to the October 1996 issue of Acoustic Guitar, the Epi Emperor
    Regent does have a pressed laminated spruce top.  
    
    Jim

>    According to the October 1996 issue of Acoustic Guitar, the Epi Emperor
>    Regent does have a pressed laminated spruce top.  

    It doesn't compare to a solid spruce top to my ears. It really
    lacks warmth.I actually had a selection of 3 to try at Mr Music in Alston,
    not they were especially to my likeing as the finishes were silver flake,
    gold flake and some other "custom" color like pink flake.  :^(   A real 
    potential instrument for a refinish experiance... :^) They also had a 
    fairly light gauge string on them which didn't help.....

Mr Music actually had a decent selection of archtops whereas you could play
a $900 Epi,a variety of used lowend Gibsons and Guilds for under $1k,at $2k a
Gibson Es175,at $2.8k Mesrobian 17inch,at $3.2k Heritage GE,at $4.7-$5k aGibson
WesMon. L5,and at $20k Gibson Citation(natural)

I liked the Mesrobian the most,and I hear he is a local builder? But for
$3k I'm sure you can find a used Borys?

I'd probably steer someone to a used Guild or Heritage archtop before I'd
consider an Epi Emperor Regent. 


    
Rick

    >It doesn't compare to a solid spruce top to my ears. It really
    >lacks warmth.
    
    AG described it something like "loud but not particularly rich in
    character..."
    
    I'm still kicking myself for passing on a mint used Golden Eagle for
    $1,500 a couple of years ago.  
    
    Jim

well, seriously, I'd expect something that cost 3 to 4 times
the cost of the Epi import to be a WAY better instrument..

Personally, with the stuff I'm involved in, I'd get limited
use out of a full sized archtop anyway,,, It'd basically be
something I used around the house, maybe an occasional jam,,
I don't see it being practical for much else for me..  so given
that I really couldn't justify big bucks for one of these.

The only Guild I saw that was a cut above the imports was
the Artist Award, but I head they were big bucks (around $3k.)
The other guilds looked more like 175 knocks than anything else,
not in the style of the Emporer (Which is something like the
Gibson La Grande)

    I saw some mail order place selling them for $859. For something
    to use around the house and an occasional jam? Seems like an awful
    lot of money. Your right about the 175 spin offs,even though Gruhn
    has a solid top Guild Ca100 for $1k,but this is a 16 inch body.
    
    re I'm still kicking myself for passing on a mint used Golden Eagle for
        $1,500 a couple of years ago.
    
    If you need some help with the kicking let me know!  :^)
    
    Even a Heritage Sweet 16 cost's more....and 575's are a little cheaper.
    
    Then again I remember a blonde Gibson L5c for $3100 I passed on a few
    years ago...  :^(
    
    Rick
    

yea, it is a lot of dough for it new,, I dunno,, if I had
the bucks even if I would actually spring for it...

I saw a second hand on ein th3e want adds for 600...

    
    >re I'm still kicking myself for passing on a mint used Golden Eagle for
    >        $1,500 a couple of years ago.
    >
    >If you need some help with the kicking let me know!  :^)
    
    No, I'm more than capable of handling the kicking myself.  The guitar
    was mint, but I couldn't get comfortable with the neck, so I decided to
    pass.  It was a great deal even then, and archtop prices have since well
    out-paced inflation.  Oh well.  Just one of many that I should have
    grabbed--
    
    	o The Gibson Chet Atkins classical electric for $400
        o The 1920-something Gibson L12 for $1100 (one previous owner!)
    	o The Ibanez George Benson for $390
        o The early sixties tele (looked terrible, played great) for $99 
    	  (OK, so this was almost 20 years ago, but still)...
    
    Jim

    
    
    To all of the folks who recently bought Epi Les Pauls...
    
    Any comments on the guitars?  Quality of finish?  Frets?  Binding?
    Thickness of the maple top?  Sound?  Do the pickups compare with 
    Gibson originals?
    
    Inquiring minds and all that...
    
    Kevin
    
    

    Kev--
    
    As a former Gibson owner, I can share with you my honest feelings
    re: four Epi les pauls
    
    Quality of finish	Superior
    Frets		Above average
    Thickness of top	Excellent
    Quality of wood in
     neck/body		Superior
    Pickups		Excellent (no plans to change em at all!)
    
    Honestly, the only difference between an Epi and a Gibson, sans the
    headstock logo/design, is the weight of the guitar.  The Epis are
    no slough, but they aren't like a Twin, either.
    
    I'm wicked happy with mine.  As noted, they all did need a setup,
    but afterwards, they rocked! 

well, Buck, all I can repeat is this: I bought an 
Epi-Sheraton last May, it's one of the nicest playing 
guitars, and definetly has a distinct tone to it, so
the pickups are probably gonna stay on this one too.

So, to make it stage worthy, I've not *had* to modify a 
thing, but I did change the  cheesy pickguard.. 
Bought a black/white/black lam. one for it, (special 
order from WD) and it was the  finishing touch to making 
the Sheraton look like a top notch piece.  (The big E 
logo on the stock tortoise gaurd  gave it a weird look..)

My next axe:  Most likely it will be another Epi,
I'm interested in the Emporer Regent archtop.

    so are Epi's just manufactured overseas instead of the USA?

    -1
    
    Could be.  Mine say "Made in Korea"

    Mine says "Made in USA" ;-)
    
    Even has 6666 in the SN - beyond "The Beast"

all epiphones made in the last few years are imports.

I don't know when the switch was made,,,, but it's at least
been in the last 4 years.

    >>Mine says "Made in USA" ;-)
    
    Good thing -- gotta justify that outrageous price tag somehow, I
    guess?!  8^)
    
    

    
    I always thought Epi's were made abroad?
    
    
    as for Heritage...I've seen some really pretty models but the
    headstocks are ugly as all hell!
    
    
    					ian

|    Good thing -- gotta justify that outrageous price tag somehow, I
|    guess?!  8^)
    
    Looking at the Epi prices being tossed around in here makes the Gibson 
    deal I got even better.  

    
    I think $400 is the best price I've ever seen or heard of for an Epi
    standard.
    
    how much did you pay for you Gibson?
    
    
    						ian

general question Ian ??

I bought a wine red standard in August, $1,200, list was $2,200
there up to $2,400 I think presently..

I'm happy with it, but to be honest I'd never shell that kind
of bucks out again for an instrument. It's just TOO much $$$$$

Honestly can't understand why these things can't cost
around $1,000 new,, that's a fair price, don't ya think.

    $700 for my Gibson LP Studio (white w/gold hardware).

    $800 for my 30th anniversary gold top reissue...
    
    'course this was back before Gibson went bonkers on their prices.
    
    /Steve

    
    For me, it's a "lust" issue.  As a high school student, I'd stand in
    those music stores staring at the Les Pauls, SG's, Flying V's, etc.
    I couldn't afford the Gibson, but I could afford a copy.  But I
    didn't *want* the copy.
    
    When I open my Les Paul case, I always think "It took me a looong time
    to get you."
    
    For me, that's what it's always been about.  It was never a
    blind-folded, which-guitar-is-actually-better test.
    
    Of course, I kept a Hagstrom Swede as my main guitar for 18 years, so
    what do I know. 8-)
    
    

yea, but when I was back in high school you could
pick up a Les Paul for roughly what the Epiphone
pauls are running today..

my 1st Paul was a '73/74 gold top, with baby 
humbuckers,  Paid ??$450-$475?? for it with the 
case, back in 74...

I think I bought my strat (Which was a 72) for
$275, and my 69 Tele was like $185...

A pack of strings was $2.50..

*** DHEM were the DAYS  ***

    Lessee...
    
    $700 ($735 w/tax?) for a Gibson Studio LP, which imhop is a bare-bone
    no frills guitar ... or $800 (no tax) for two Epi LP's of equal or
    better quality.
    
    To each their own
    

    does that include the custom Gibson "coffin" case?  mine did. 
    
    btw - why do you think gold hardware is bare-bone, no frills?

    Gibson Studio guitars, while nice are what Buck said "bare-bones Gibson". 
    Gold hardware isn't that big a deal.  Bindings, select wood tops,
    inlays etc... make the big stink. :-)
    
    Now, the studio is a fine instrument, but a Epi-custom or standard is
    pretty darn nice too.  I think I (personally) would go with the Epi.  
    
    However, I still love Ibanez...And since I've got a "collectable" 550
    and USA custom along with my strat, I think I'll stick where I am.
    :-)

    Coop took the words out of my mouth.
    
    What I meant by "bare-bones" was the following features on the 
    Studio:
    
    - "one-piece" body (i.e., no figured top), and which typically isn't
      a great piece of wood (most studios I've seen have been painted vs.  
      a natural/translucent finish.  I mean, if the studio featured a 
      nice piece of maple, that would be a different story...
    - No binding on body, neck or headstock.
    
    
    For price/performance, any one of the Epi STD's holds up real nice in
    comparison to a "real" Gibson Studio model.
    
    Buck, who may bring an Epi or two to this Thursday's Guitar Center
    	  Noter soiree.
    
    

Gee buck, I could have sworn all the LP Studios I looked 
at had a 1/4" 2 pc. maple top.. Infact, I saw a pretty darned 
niced wine red flamed top on one at Mr. Cs, infact, came 
inches from buying it, but went ahead with the wine red
standard..
  
but true, I do think the big difference is no binding,
gives a whole new look though..

/pelkster.

    >I don't know when the switch was made,,,, but it's at least
    >been in the last 4 years.
      
    
    Epiphone was originally a US company.  They were most noted for their
    acoustic archtops (big & loud).  Gibson bought them out in the late
    fifties (if memory serves me correctly).  Gibson transferred production
    to Kalamazoo and made guitars under the Epiphone label into the
    sixties.  The label was then retired.
    
    In the seventies, Gibson reintroduced the Epi label as a lower-end
    label for imported guitars.  In the last several years, Gibson has been
    emulating Fender's success with its Squire series by selling copies of
    Gibson designs built in the orient under the Epiphone name.  This has
    been coupled with attempts to raise the overall quality.
    
    I also seem to remember Gibson building some Epis in the US a while
    back-- one of the 335-style guitars-- probably as a way to help further
    bolster the Epi name.

    re: pelkster
    
    Could be, donno.  I'll take your word for it.  All the studios I've
    seen were "painted" -- i.e., you couldn't tell what they were made of?!

well I know that they're supposed to all have a 1/4" maple
top, (according to the specs on the web),  and since you
can rest assured that a single piece maple top would be
astronomical in price, my guess is most would be a 2 peice.

the only visibile diff between a studio and a standard
is the binding, as far as I know...

>the only visibile diff between a studio and a standard
>is the binding, as far as I know...
    
    If that is the case, then Gibson is sure guilty for the price
    difference they charge for the binding then!

Guilty as SIN buck,, but they're run on the philosophy
of charging what the market will bear.  If we're dumb enough
to buy them, then we're part of the problem too..

    -1
    
    Which is why I went Epi -- just couldn't justify the extra $1k for
    a "name"
    
    Same goes for why I won't buy a Harley ($20k for a cycle, sha...)

I must confess,,,

Another acute attack of GAS has come-n-gone, and
the damage was one Epiphone Emporer II (Joe Pass) 
archtop...

Guys! it was one of them things,, I just could help myself..

wicked cool,, natural finish, gold hardware...
I completly dig it, and it plays and sounds pissa.

wanna see it ??? Check out...

http://www.gibson.com/products/epiphone/archtop/3.html

cost ? (get this) $560!.. not including the Case, which
I'm not sure what I'm gonna do just yet, I took it home in
a Martin Dreadnaught case, fits pretty good, and I can take
that for 80 bucks (not much of a bargain there) but I'm 
thinking for terms of resale, the Epi-Joe Pass Case 
would probably be the way to go, cost is the same..

hell of a deal regardless, list price is $1229, so,, 
this comes in at 55% off list, 

Sure, it aint no Johhny Smith, but it is *quite* cool, 
and how could ya beat the price!

/pelksta..

    And where, praytell, did you get this deal?  You never know when you
    a GAS attack might hit...
    
    	Rick

    and how, pray tell, did you get this one by the wife?

    > and how, pray tell, did you get this one by the wife?
    
    oooh yeah...  forget my first question, just answer this one....

-- where: Action Music, Leominster..  

-- convincing the wife: that's never a problem,
she really doesn't mind me buying this stuff.  I never
use any house-hold funds,, I just unloaded an old PA
and some outboard stuff I wasn't using, I was gonna upgrade
the PA, but I really have no need for that at this time,
so I popped for the Emporer instead.  Not sorry I did.

seriously, just too damn good a deal to pass up.  I don't know
what Guitar Center has got these going out the door for, (I 
thought I saw $659, last time I was in there, could be wrong)
but I do know Musician Friend is advertising $699 (with case)  
add shipping, figure $720/725 complete, and Mr C's was looking
somewhere around $800, but he did say he would try and
match (as close as he could) musicians friend, even though
the caveat here is the Musicians Friend's price reflects the
previous list price $1189 (w/case=$1289),,  The best Jim C.
would have done was $750, and he could not get Natural which
was the finish I really wanted anyway...

/pelksta