Conference 7.286::sports_91

 damit!!!!!!!!

 It just gets harder and harder to keep a smile in here....

 Bob, I hope you can hook as sportswriter, we all know you've got the
 talent...

 another ruined friday.......

 mike

    S**T. And this from someone who knew about the whole Charlotte fiasco a
    few weeks back; still can't believe they are just closing down a site
    irregardless of the talent and skill that exists there. It is
    incomprehensible to me that a site is closed becuase it won't be molded
    into the image of its management, arrrgghh!!
    
    FWIW Bob, many of us in your organization were stunned by this
    decision, we figured that people with certain skills would be safe
    wherever they were based; what foolish thinking.
    
    I take it the official last date for you folks is 8/28?
    
    It keeps getting worse and worse. I concur with .1 completely
    
    another ruined friday.......
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Bob,
    I'm still stunned, shocked and the anger of what they've done
    to you and Dan'l will come later.
    
    I've told ya offline some of my feelings but suffice it to say, through
    this medium, you and dan'l have become more than just friends.
    
    I'm prayin and hoping you guys get a safe landing, real soon.
    
    bummed to the max,
    Kev
    

    
    DAMN!
    

  This is bad news  :^(  Your group helped our Region with a big project, so
  I know how competent you are technically and with customers.

  On the non-professional side, I always found the Hornets topic terrific, 
  even if it was about the *other* expansion team ;^)  Good info and analysis.
  Who'll be left in Charlotte to keep it going?

  Bob, you've got a great career in sportswriting waiting IMHO if that's what
  you decide to go after.  Good luck, guys.

  Kath
  bummed out in Miami :^(

    Man, I can't believe this stuff.  
    
    So much for a good weekend..
    

    Well, guess I'll use this note to enter my weepy good bye.  

    It's been a rough month for me.  Around the beginning of the month, Jai
    came to me with the most frightened of looks on her face, gave me my
    things back, and walked out of my life for good.  Her parents have
    forced her back into their home where she must remain and wait for them
    to arrange a marriage to a South Korean guy who they already have there
    for her morning, noon, and night.

    Putting a few pieces of the puzzle together in the last few weeks, I
    think I finally understand what happened.  I do believe, after months
    of ineffective parental ploys (including beating the crap out of the
    girl once), Jai's mom and dad probably threatened to have me hurt or
    killed if she continued to see me.  It was that kind of fear that was
    in her eyes that last day.  She did it to protect me.  Haven't seen or
    heard from her since.  

    In a way, this strangely parallels the situation with our coward
    manager up in New Hamshire and our office.  With little regard for the
    substance of these people in Charlotte, he chose to just judge us at
    face value (i.e. we were remote) and kill us.

    I've seen my skill set take less and less prominence in this office, so
    I expected to be laid off.  However, to shut down the entire office is
    a shock to everyone.  Some of the best people in this whole company
    work here.  In a sense, I'm one of the lucky ones because I've been job
    hunting for about two months now and may be offered a job the week
    after I get laid off.  My dear friends in this office aren't so
    fortunate.

    One of the hardest things to accept is my anger over past feelings of
    guilt.  There were times when I wondered if I had spent too much time
    noting, especially in this conference, and not enough time working. 
    Folks, it just didn't matter.  Had I entered 1000 more notes or 1000
    less, our fate would still be the same.

    I will walk out of here proudly, knowing I did the best I could with
    the intelligence and skills I had.  I pulled off some major successes
    in my five years with Digital and made the company some money on their
    investment in me.  Now Digital is using the "Don't let the door..."
    adage on me.

    But life goes on and I'm going to be one tough son of a bitch after
    August 1992, a month I'll mark in my personal history as both the
    saddest in my life and the turning point to my true destiny.  I will
    find a new job and I will find a new lady to love.  And in both cases,
    there will be times when the new will not live up to the old, and there
    will be times when the old will not live up to the new.

    You've all become great friends (except for Gronowski, but I won't
    spoil this note with negatives).  Thanks for being there when I needed
    you.  The knowledge and creativity in this file is a testimony to its
    value.  

    Take care, my dear friends.

    	--dan'l

    Wow, I was too busy last Friday to log in very much, and this has come
    as a shock to me.
    
    Bob and Dan'l, best of luck in your futures.  Keep your chins up. 
    Don't get sour on the world, as it will affect your life.
    
    I got whacked from my last job, first time ever laid-off.  I knew it
    was coming, but that didn't ease the pain and frustration I felt.  But,
    life does go on, and I had to stop gazing down.  Too much was
    happening, and I got tired of missing out.
    
    It won't be the same in here without you guys, just as it hasn't been
    the same since Dinz and JOJ and Kwah and others left, for whatever
    reasons.
    
    Wishing you the very best,
    
    Lee

       This really sux! Good luck guys. Is TTom in your office too? 
    Bob, just extract your notes in here and give them to the sports
    editor, I'm sure he'll find a place for you.
                                    Denny

    Just gopt a chance to read this string and, quite frankly, I am
    shocked. 
    
    Dan'l, I didn't know you very well, enjoyed your notes and wish you the
    best. 
    
    Bob - since I started in this conference when I was "Trapped in the
    Tundra" and SPORTS was on RUBY, I have enjoyed your wit and
    objectivity. I have also come to appreciate your technical abilities
    through other conferences and via word of mouth.
    
    It is inconceivable that Digital is allowing good people to leave. I
    know that gut wrenching decisions had to be made and that cuts were
    ineveitable. But I always thought that the true talent of DEC, the
    individual spirits that made us different from our competitors, would
    be retained for their unique and special qualities.
    
    I've still got my original DEC badge. It's black and white. A simple
    thing. I look at that badge, it's simplicity, and wish for those simple
    days to return. You work your butt off, use your mind, get paid and get
    a pat on the back.
    
    Now, it seems, all vestiges (sp?) of the DEC ken Olsen built are either
    gone or going away. The dignity of Bob, Dan'l, Dinz and others who
    are/have left is a testament to the caliber of employee DEC has.
    
    I also think of the unbelievable human toll this thing is wreaking. I
    know Bob relocated to a new part of the country. Perhaps you desired
    it, Bob, but a move is stressfull and, bottom line, you did it for DEC.
    You brought your much loved micro-Hunts to a new state to start over. I
    have two good friends who went through TDP that also went to Charlotte
    and will probably meet the same fate.
    
    The whole thing is numbing. Canobie Lake, in and of itself, is a minor
    thing. But it represented the fabric of this company. It mirrored Ken
    Olsen's acceptance of an employee's family as part of the employment
    bargain. The bulk of the US workforce had the opportunity to partake in
    Canobie Lake and most did. It was a chance for DEC to tell the wives,
    husbands and children of employees, no matter what level they were,
    "Hey, we appreciate what your family member did for us and we'd like to
    thank you by offering a family day".
    
    Bob, Dan'l, as a man who is sweating each day out and who hasn't slept
    right in weeks, my heartfelt best wishes on your future. I am deeply
    disturbed by this note because of the individuals involved. I am also
    hurt at the loss to the company of such fine people who are now
    hardened and bitter. 
    
    Best of Luck,
    
    Rich
    

    I'm working days this week because of some training I have tomorrow
    thru Thursday, and i was off Friday, so I just got in here, and after
    reading this note, am, simply, stunned.
    
    To see that more of our compadrays in ::SPORTS are leaving, and the
    coldness at which these decisions are being made, deeply saddens me.
    
    Bob and --dan'l, I cain only hope and pray that both of you find
    yourselves positions in greener pastures, and with people who care
    leading you.
    
    To see how the lifeblood of this notesfile has been eroded over the
    past couple of years really hurts.  It seems that all of the people who
    give(gave) this notesfile a very unique personality of its own are
    being sent on their (not so)merry ways.
    
    I don't often find myself at a loss for words, or NOT feel the need to
    try and cheer people up via some kind of humor, although 99.9% of my
    attempts at humor are lame, but right now, there is nothing funny to
    say, and this is no time to say it, anyways.
    
    The rumor mill around here has the announcements of layoffs in our
    office happening either nexted week, or the week after, and frankly, I
    wonder if I'll be around after those announcements.  
    
    Sadly
    
    JaKe
    

I will never forget when I first came into Sports.  It was late in my
stint in France, and soon after I got home, some things in my life
changed radically and I needed Sports as a place to get a laugh and blow
off steam.

I'll never forget the Eagles fan that I ran across in here.  Over time I
realized that Bob was much more than just an Eagle fan.  He was an extremely
literate man, with views that I enjoyed reading about whether I agreed or
not.  And that, my friends, for those of you who might not know, is the
mark of a great writer.   

Over the years I've come to think of Bob as a friend, although I live
a bunch o' miles from North Carolina.  I've come to think of him as a
good natured rival when it comes to writing, although to use an
analogy, I'm constantly seeing the number on his back as I try to catch up.

Meeting Bob was special to me, that night at the OPP.

I feel sad now that there will be no one there to appreciate the fact that
I gush sometimes...


And I remember another noter, with a fabulous story about dancing with
Rosanna Arquette.  He marvelled me with tales of boating, and things like
that, and I finally got to meet him.   I'll never forget his terse
remark when I said that Dickster was going home to suck face with Casey.
Dan'l replied "Not if I get there first".....


I will miss both of you greatly.   I'm still planning on coming down next
year, when my brother goes to tour Rusty's shop.  I'll expect to have the
Mother of All Get Togethers with you.


As with the Parting at Grey Havens, this sad day is issuing in a new,
sadder and less innocent era.......


Godspeed, my friends,
'Saw

    Bob, Dan'l:
    
    Never got to meet you, but I always enjoyed your notes in here.
    
    All the best to you in your life after DEC...
    
    
    py (whose department finds out about the layoffs today)

    Yes, it's really getting dark and somber all over these days, and will 
    probably continue to do so for some time to come.  There's not too much
    more that can be said, I guess, except to express my sincere hope and
    best wishes that things will work out even better for you wherever you
    might decide to go (considering the talents in question that's a 
    likelihood, I think).  Guys, look to your families to evaluate and list 
    your priorities.  That's what I try to do these days, at least...
    
    glenn
      

Good luck to both of you. You will be missed.




Steve

    The sad part of this is not only for dan'l and Bob, but for all of us,
    since we will be deprived of their intelligence and wit.  We (however
    many of us left) will miss them.

    As others have stated, with your talents, I'm sure each of you will
    land on your feet,  It is my sincere wish that it happens expediantly
    and favorably.

    =Bob=   
    

      Good luck guys!  Maybe this is the light at the end of the tunnel.
    
      Since our business has been sold to an outsource,  the "rumor" is our
    plant/business is getting the swipe this or next week.  Not all people,
    but some none the less.
    
    
      Tim
    
    

    It's hard to think of just how to reply to this topic. I feel kinda
    like the way chickens look after they've just seen a couple of their
    buddies beheaded by the cruel farmer with his axe. If you guys have
    never seen this, it's very very quiet in the coop, and it's almost like
    if they're wondering which one will be next. Of course farmer Jones
    goes away, things get back to near normal (although it'll never be the
    same with henny penny & chicken little in the coop)....at least for
    awhile, until he comes back and does it all again. 
    
    Bob, Dan'l, unfortunately this time around it's you guys that are
    chicken little & henny penny, and this coop will never be the same
    without youse. And right now you guys are probably in a world of anger,
    dispair, and maybe even feeling a little lost, but I'd like to
    encourage you both in that you both ate, drank, and enjoyed life before
    Digital, and you will hopefully continue to do so after Digital. Heck,
    in twenty years from now you may look back and see that it was all part
    of the master plan for your lives, and 'tho it sucks now, it might turn
    out to be the greatest thing that ever happened to you. I guess in the
    end, it's God's agenda for our lives that takes precedence, instead of
    our own. And as one chicken who's wondering when it'll be his neck on
    the block, I hope you guys will accept my prayers that God will bless
    you both abundantly beyond anything Digital could ever have given you.
    
    Cheers, Carlos
    

  I just get kind of numb reading through this note. I don't know what
  to say.

  Bob, Dan'l, I've always enjoyed reading and answering your notes. I will
  truely miss you. Being a Steeler/Pirate fan, ex Bobcat and a swimmer, it will
  be especially hard to say good bye to Dan'l.

  There's an old Chinese proverb that goes something like - "Out of chaos,
  comes opportunity". I hope that opportunity comes quickly to each of you
  and that you seise the moment.

	Keith

    I'm saddened, but not necessarily stunned that Digital has come to
    this.  It is a sign that our once proud company that was a fun, happy
    place to work has become just another insurance company.  Well, maybe
    it has to be that way to insure its future survival but it doesn't mean
    we have to put up with it.  Bob and Dan'l, maybe you are the lucky
    ones at this point.  It may not seem so now but knowing both of you
    (mostly through notes but also through a neat live meeting with each of
    you), I feel confident that both of you will end up in better
    situations and be far, far better off in the long run.
    
    I'm saddened that you have to leave under these circumstances.  I'm
    saddened that I'll probably never see either one of you again.  I'm
    most saddened that I'll never read your notes again.  Of all the people
    who've left I think this hurts the most because I know you guys were a
    part of a great unit and it seems so shortsighted to lop it off like
    this.
    
    Bob, I know you have Cindy and the MicroHunts in the area with you so I
    know you'll have lots of family and emotional support.  Dan'l, I know
    it's going to be harder on you having lost Jai under such miserable
    circumstances.  I've been there.  It's no fun.  For both of you, I want
    to speak on behalf of everyone in here when we say y'all can count on
    us for emotional support.  Get the phone numbers.  Call when you need
    to.  This conference has given me lots of emotional support during
    times when I've needed it and I never even said anything about it.
    
    In my case, I'm beginning to follow the advice of my mentor, one
    Richard F MacPherson.  "Don't let the bastards get you - get them
    first."
    
    Ninj

    
    Well, if we didn't have enough examples of poor management/decision
    making, this kinda reinforces it....
    
    I had the pleasure of meeting Bob and dan'l both, and mere words could
    never _begin_ to tell you all what terrific people they are.  'Course
    those of you that have met them both know this to be fact.  
    
    I have no doubt that you will both leave DEC and shine even brighter,
    if that's possible.  You will both move forward and begin another
    chapter, enriching other's lives as you have ours.  Of that I have no
    doubt!
    
    Clearly, this is Digital's loss.........
    
    
    
    Peace,
    
    Cath

    It's tough to return to topics like this after a long vacation.  I'm
    going to miss reading the soothing calm in Bob's notes and the
    Adventures of dan'l.
    
    I offer you these 2 things to ponder as you go through this new
    transition...
    
    1. GO SUNS!
    
    2. CONSERVATIVES ROOL!
    
    Mike ;-)

 �   1. GO SUNS!	... and take the Cardinals with you !!!
 
 �   2. CONSERVATIVES ROOL!
 
 Ah, I see we have with us yet another graduate of the J Danforth Quayle
 Schoole of Goode Spelling.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Saw,
    	If Bob gets the job wif the sports paper, he cain gets us in to the
    pits at Charlotte!  :*)  Give me a buzz when you come down to visit
    Rusty.
    
    Bob and Dan'l,
    
    	You guys keep your heads up and be proud!  From all indications,
    you've done very well at your positions.  Take your knowledge and grow
    with it!  Take every job away from DEC that you can. That's what we're
    fixin to do down here! And I can't think of a better reason than being
    shitted out of job!
    
    Best of luck to you in the future!  I'll be in Rock Hill in Oct. Love
    to get together!
    
    B.A._who_knows_all_to_well_how_they_feel!

�Take every job away from DEC that you can. That's what we're
�    fixin to do down here! 
    
    That will be easy to do since DEC is no longer in the business of
    making PWBs, just stuffing them.  DEC never sold PWBs outside either. 
    It's also prudent business not to tick off someone who potentially
    could be your largest customer.
    
�And I can't think of a better reason than being
�    shitted out of job!
    
    Two things.  First, this isn't appropriate language for a notes
    conference.  Second, according to reports I've read, AMP-AZKO is not
    only buying the facility, but taking all the employees there as well. 
    From what we've heard, few if any will be out of work as a result of
    this.

Best of luck to both of you guys. I realize that DEC has to make some
crucial decisions in the up coming months but with services being one
of the few sectors of the company turning a profit I'm hard pressed to
figure out the drive to cut DEC's service sector...

Being a software guy I'm also getting tired of watching the way DEC
continues to toss in software to leverage a hardware sale that doesn't
make any money. 

Basically we've bet the company on Alpha and we're paring down to try 
to lose as little as possible before Alpha kicks in.

I predict that DEC will soon become a reseller of Microsoft NT on Alpha
boxes and losing money the whole way...

Anyway's I wish you guys the best of luck and I hope that you won't be
out of work long. Keep sending in those Publishers Clearing House 
Sweepstakes and good things will come your way:-)

Metz

    Like the Phoenix, you shall both rise from the flames and ashes to
    bigger and better thangs.
    
    
    JaKe
    

Grantland Rice said it best, and this is the way I feel:



			Game Called

	Game called.
	Across the field of play the dusk has come,
	The hour is late, the fight is done
	And lost or won the player files out through the gate.
	The tumult dies, the cheer is hushed, 
	The stands are bare, the park is still,
	But through the night there shines the light
	Of home, beyond the silent hill.

	Game called.
	Where in the golden light the bugle rolled the reveille,
	The shadows creep, where night falls deep,
	And Taps has called the end of play.
	The game is done, the score is in,
	The final cheer and jeer have passed,
	But in the night, beyond the fight,
	The player finds his rest at last.

	Game called.
	Upon the field of life the darkness gathers far and wide.
	The dream is done, the score is spun
	That stands forever in the guide.
	Nor victory, nor yet defeat,
	Is chalked against the player's name.
	But down the roll the final scroll
	Shows only how he played the game.





You two guys played the game okay in my book.  I hope you feel some
of the hope that's in Rice's poem.

However, like the fan that waits at the railing after the players
have filed into the clubhouse, I shall miss you, and look forward to
a day when we get to see you play again......


8^(

'Saw

    Bob Hunt is one of the nicest guys I have ever come in contact with
    through the notesfiles.    I bet the place he will be missed most is at
    the DECUS symposiums, where Bob has an unmatched reputation with the 
    people who matter most in this business - our customers and his peers.
    
    The unforgiveable thing that DEC has done to too many people like Bob
    is to offer a new job in a new location and then rip it away after two
    years.  I've seen it happen to some people in my group in less than 12
    months.    
    
    I was about an inch away from leaving DEC to go into business for
    myself a month ago but decided to stick it out with the hope that 
    something positive would happen.   I'm still waiting.
    

    >> The unforgiveable thing that DEC has done to too many people like Bob
    >> is to offer a new job in a new location and then rip it away after two
    >> years.  I've seen it happen to some people in my group in less than 12
    >> months.
    
    Try this one on for size. DEC employee goes through 6 months training
    to change career. Program paid for by DEC. Housing, per diem included.
    New location had to agree to take employee on. Employee graduates from
    training, relocates from New England to greater Washington DC area in
    December. Reports to work, not given any guidance. Employee looking for
    place to live, finds condo, makes a deposit on the place. The day
    papers are to be passed, employee is told that services no longer
    needed. Layed off. Elapsed time from day left New England until day of
    layoff: 2 weeks.
    
    The above is a true story. And, unfortunately, similar horror stories
    exist from the Chicago area.
    
    Rich
    

For many of the folks who uprooted and went to Seattle to work on the large
Boeing projects, and were told they were extremely valuable employees and would
have work when the projects ended, the end is near.  I've heard many have been
given a set amount of time to find work or be gone.  You can't imagine the
money DEC spent on relo costs alone.

That's the reward some of those folks get for spending 3 years or so at a 
hostile environment, with no support from corporate DEC.

JD

    re: .33
    
    Sounds like a bunch of COD folks I know. Some already had settled into
    new locations and homes. DEC had covered their relo plus the very
    generous program to cover most losses on houses they sold.
    Then the metrics changed and corporate DEC reneged on some things and
    these people were layed off either in TFSO I or II.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Just to add a bit more bitterness;
    
    DVN - BP speaks;
    
    "This is not Bob Plamer.  This is not the way we go about becoming
    competitive.......we will, of course, make every effort to utilize the
    talented people that will be involved......"
    
    
    Yup, sure seems clear to me......
    
    :*(
    
    Kev
    

�I predict that DEC will soon become a reseller of Microsoft NT on Alpha
�boxes and losing money the whole way...
    
    You mean like IBM did with MS-DOS?  Or perhaps like Wang providing
    software for IBM boxes?

Historically the problem is that DEC has always used software to leverage
hardware sales instead of selling it in its own right.

Iron is becoming a commodity.  Those that come out with the newest, hottest,
most reliable software are going to rule the world.


And there are those of us in the software side of the house who aren't 
forgetting just who it is behind Windows NT, where he came from, and that
we could have been the ones selling it as our own.....

Losing him has the same impact as if the Sox traded Clemens for two 
AA relief pitchers and a peanut vendor to be named later....


'Saw

    re: .38
    
    Yes and no on the NT thing. Keep in mind that one of the forces that
    kept DEC from entering the UN*X market place until others were way
    ahead of us were the folks who had developed VMS. Brilliant software
    developer, yes, but without Microsoft's marketing might I am not sure
    how successful that project would be. Basically, as long as people were
    beating on DEC's door to buy from us only the software counted, other
    skills did not matter much. Today ...  Think of it as a top pitcher who
    gets no run support from his team - like Ryan the year he led the
    league in K's and ERA but had a losing record.
    
    The Crazy Met
    
    

 Funny that Doug Ross should mention DECUS.  Our group in Charlotte has had
 a phenomenal relationship with DECUS over the years, specifically the
 Office Automation SIG.   We used to send an entire army of about a dozen
 or more specialists to DECUS to give presentations, work on customer
 problems, drum up new business, and just be with customers in general.
 
 We used to have a slot on the OA SIG steering committee.  We used to be in
 charge of setting up the demos in the Campground areas.  We used to have
 sitting members in their technology Working Groups.  The whole nine yards.
 
 Soon after we were merged into the Cross-Industries EIC, we were told to
 stop doing DECUS.   The reason was that it couldn't be measured.  There
 were no beans to count.   Nothing we did there could be measured or
 tracked or tallied or in any way credited to us.  If one of us spoke to a
 customer from, let's say, Seattle while at DECUS and he then went home and
 placed an order for 1,000 user licenses for ALL-IN-1 or whatever, we got
 no beans.
 
 So they called it a waste and ordered us to stop doing it.  In the same
 breath, they said that the CIS EIC "vision" was supposed to include the
 concept of "customer enthusiasm" which was later amended to "customer
 delight".
 
 [Aside: We wondered when it was going to move to "customer arousal" and
 then perhaps "customer foreplay" and then ...]
 
 So we kept trying to send 2 or 3 people instead of 10 of 12.   And each
 time we got last minute approval to send the 2 or 3, mostly because we had
 submitted sessions that had been requested by the OA SIG and then
 scheduled for the Symposium.   
 
 And each time, I'd come back and file my report that said how "enthused"
 and "delighted" the customers were with us.  It was no bull, either.  
 Doug Ross and Yoseff Francus have both seen upfront what Charlotte did at
 DECUS.   A lot of hard but very satisfying work.   Each time DECUS holds a
 symposium, over 5,000 customers show up.   And we "delighted" more than
 just a few of 'em each and every time.
 
 But it had no beans in it.   In retrospect, we should have seen the
 anti-DECUS hostility as a warning sign about our entire group's security. 
 They wanted us to "delight" our customers but they never figured out how
 to measure "delight".   No beans, no delight, no Charlotte.
 
 Bob Hunt

    So, will there be a Charlotte, NH instead of NC?

    Good luck Bob and dan'l.  Will miss the wit, insight, insults, 
    and Dean bashing (he is the greatest college coach ever, right?)!
    
    You two guys started the Larry Johnson bandwagon back when others
    lobbied for Mutumbo and Billy Owens (I preferred Owens).  
    LJ turned out to b da'man!
    
    If you make it to any Hornet games, come find us (TTom, etc) -
    very TOP row, dead center court, facing the benches.
    
    Dan'l, we'll miss you at volleyball.  Maybe we can invite DEC alum's
    to participate(?).
    
    Hang in there guys (and Go Hornets!)
    Pat

       Bob, any chance you might be able to work for DECUS? Or do you even
    want to at this point?
                                  Denny

>    Yes and no on the NT thing. Keep in mind that one of the forces that
>    kept DEC from entering the UN*X market place until others were way
>    ahead of us were the folks who had developed VMS. 

No disagreement there.

>Brilliant software
>    developer, yes, but without Microsoft's marketing might I am not sure
>    how successful that project would be. 

Two points:  

	a) you should NEVER let a brilliant software developer get away.
	b) if the project is successful with Microsoft's marketing might,
	   then shouldn't DEC be working on some marketing might of
	   there own?


>Basically, as long as people were
>    beating on DEC's door to buy from us only the software counted, other
>    skills did not matter much. Today ...  

Only the SOFTWARE counted?  You mean Hardware right?  I mean we used
to GIVE software away.

Oh, I think I see what you mean, though....

We've got to be a complete team, from Sales, to Marketing to Engineering
etc etc etc...

>Think of it as a top pitcher who
>    gets no run support from his team - like Ryan the year he led the
>    league in K's and ERA but had a losing record.
    
Gotcha now.  I see yer point.


'Saw    
    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
�I predict that DEC will soon become a reseller of Microsoft NT on Alpha
�boxes and losing money the whole way...
    
>    You mean like IBM did with MS-DOS?  Or perhaps like Wang providing
>    software for IBM boxes?


Nope..the way IBM currently does with MS-DOS. You don't see Big Blue
making money hand over fist any more do ya? Granted they returned to
profitability this quarter after reducing their workforce by almost
70K employees but they have a much firmer market space than DEC. They
aren't making any money selling PC's any more..

As 'Saw said, hardware is a commodity business right now. Our sales guys
love pushing hardware because it enables them to roll up big revenue
numbers. However no matter how big the revenue numbers are if there 
is no profit in it the company still loses money. The hardware service
contracts don't make up for the amount lost selling and producing the
hardware but they help.

We don't make any money selling software right now either but it's the
only place we have the potential to make it other than services in
the future...

Microsoft sells 1 million copies of windows a month...that's a huge 
market. They'll soon own the world when UNIX shops start dropping
it for NT. 

Applications is where the $$ is and applications on top of PC's and
NT is where the future is.

You gotta remember that this comes from a guy that thought VMS was a
great OS and that UNIX is wonderful too and that PC's are still toys
until they get out from under DOS and onto a real OS. 

However I've seen the light and I'm learning to write windows code.

DEC and all the other Hardware/UNIX vendors are in deep poo right now.
CHeap PC's and whizzy applications are the wave of the future...

With DEC reselling NT on Alpha Microsoft makes the big profit and DEC
takes the pipe until it can't afford to any longer...

Metz

    re: DECUS
    
    Yup as Bob H. says the Charlotte folks were quite popular at DECUS.
    Kicker is I never had any problem from the same EIC in going to DECUS,
    but the catch was that other groups were paying for my time to do the
    Ultrix/OSF guru support stuff and make sure the term farm and internet
    were running ok. BTW I am going to DECUS in December to do an Alpha
    presentation - money comes out of some Alpha funding we have; an
    indication of how messed up this place can be.
    
    re: 'Saw
    
    Yup, you never let a BRILLIANT software designer go away. Heck you
    attempt to never let any top notch people leave.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

� Applications is where the $$ is and applications on top of PC's and
� NT is where the future is.
�
� However I've seen the light and I'm learning to write windows code.
�
� CHeap PC's and whizzy applications are the wave of the future...
 
 And now you know why I can't understand why our group is being cut.  The
 manager who made this decision declared openly that he no longer wanted to
 be in the desktop systems integration business.   
 
 All I've done for the last year is Windows programming on PC's with
 PATHWORKS and Novell tying them into VAX'es.   If you think it came cheap
 for DEC to train me on all this new stuff, guess again.   This is one
 nutty company.
 
 Bob Hunt

�Nope..the way IBM currently does with MS-DOS. You don't see Big Blue
�making money hand over fist any more do ya? 
    
    IBM took someone else's software, AND someone else's chips to make
    their PCs.  Other companies hopped on the bandwagon and started cloning
    IBM's PCs by buying the software and the chips from IBM's suppliers.
    
    Noone else can make an Alpha chip, and noone yet has come close to
    getting Alpha type performance out of their chips.  Noone else is
    offering a system that you can run just about anybody's software on. 
    That's what will keep DEC away from your doom & gloom scenario.

    re: .48
    
    Possibly. The problem is that you have to look at the margins we make
    on workstations which is pitifully small. Some markets we have to be
    better than price/performance competitive, at least at first. That
    market is the Workstation Ultrix/OSF market. So now the real question
    becomes how many Ruby's and Cobra's will we sell. A problem along the
    same lines is do we charge the same for OSF and VMS. If we charge what
    the premium that VAX/VMS has generally charged we are sunk before we
    even start. So should we be optimistic about Alpha? Yes, but about the
    potential of Alpha. The best technology does not necessarily win, and
    unless we learn to properly market Alpha ....
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    -dan'l,  I'll miss your Browns bashing..  won't be the same
    without you in here keeping us Browns fans "in line"... Jake's just
    going to have to work twice as hard now.  
    
    Bob,  Didn't really spend to much time in the college hoops/ACC topics, 
    however, I really enjoyed your weekly LA Law updates.  Saved me a whole
    hour every thursday night!  
    
    On the bright side you guys are both walking out of DEC with a  
    severance...  not sure how much longer that's gonna happen around here, 
    so in some respects maybe it's a good thing you're getting the bad news
    now.  I'm afraid I'm not as optimistic as Mac is about the future of 
    Alpha and DEC...  
    
    Best of luck to both of you, and anyone else out there who hasn't yet 
    checked in with their "news".   
    
    /Jeff 
    

Intel's 586 and 686 chips will give Alpha a run for it's money. However
the big problem with Alpha is not speed in terms of number crunching
and FLOPS but in terms of graphics speed. With the continued advent of
multi media on inexpensive PC's the need from graphics power becomes
as important as MIPS.

Bruce, Can you tell anybody anything about the new chips sets coming
out of Intel?


Bob,

I can't understand how any manager would want to drop out of the
systems integration business unless they were told to by their manager.
It's one of the few places to make big bucks right now. I bet you could
catch on with a VAR or a big contract systems integrator company like
Arthur Anderson (not that I'm really fond of the work they do..JD can
tell you more about them and Boeing) in a short amount of time if you
decide that sports writing is not the career of choice...Personally I
think you should mortgage the house and buy a Minor league team and
invite me to manage it for you :-)

Metz

    Mail has been circulating that HP is announcing a machine in September
    which has benchamarks that are better than Alpha and a less expensive
    upgrade path. Reality is that the benchmarks are not better, but if they
    are really close then we could have a problem.
    
    The Crazy Met
     

    
    >>-dan'l,  I'll miss your Browns bashing..  won't be the same
    >>without you in here keeping us Browns fans "in line"... Jake's just
    >>going to have to work twice as hard now.  
    
    That's as long as I'm here.  Runor has it that "cut down" day here is
    on Monday, and I guess if that's true, I'll find out one way or the
    other at 3:30 in the afternoon.  Sure hope I'm in here this season to
    keep Hal's predictions in line.
    
    (8^|*
    
    JaKe
    

    Dan'l, the word around NIO, at least the group I'm in, is that next
    Monday is our day, too.  It was supposed to be last Monday.
    
    Anyway, I heard yesterday that DEC was asked about a major layoff, and
    that the response was that there would be NO major layoff, so no
    announcement.  Apparently, DEC will NOT have a corporate-wide layoff on
    any given date, but will scatter this action around the company on
    different dates for different places.  That greatly reduces any
    negative publicity, unless some news agency gets hold of the entire
    action and puts out a total number.  That would catch people's eyes and
    get a lot of publicity, which seems to be what the top level guys want
    to avoid while still making big cuts.
    
    Lee

I'd just like to remind anyone who does get laid off, and finds another
job in the computer industry, or someplace that has network access, to
find out what net you're on and try to get onto the internet, so that
we can all stay in touch....

'Saw

    Also, fwiw I have the home addresse and phone numbers (I've been
    collecting them) for A&W, MrT, BobH, Doc Midnight, Hawk and B_A.
    
    To anyone else who gets pushed off the cliff if you want to send me
    the same info and I'll use it to compile a "extended family mailing
    list".
    
    I remain,
    a part-time social director,
    Kev
    

Jake and Lee -

Good luck next Monday.  This past Monday was our day, and even though deep down
I thought I was 'safe' - it was still one of the most stress filled days of
my life.   Not because leaving DEC would be that traumatic.  In fact, I was
very prepared for it (and in all honesty, a part of me was hoping for it...).

The problem was the overall tension at the workplace, and having to see 
managers walking around calling people into their termination meetings.

That was the toughest part.  Everytime someone walked by, I was ready for
the "Can you come with me..." line.

Out whole group went out for drinks later in the day.   

JD

    	I was at a "team-building" meeting off site Monday. Monday
    	was also "the day" for documentation here in LJO. Then I
    	received mail from my supervisor indicating there was an
    	urgent meeting that I had to attend at 2 PM. I basically
    	said, "All I want to know is do I still have a job." If no,
    	I'm outa here like a newborn. She replied, "You have a
    	job. Get to the meeting." The meeting was to read a statement
    	from IDC. That was it.
    
    	I received mail this morning that 50 people in IDC (CUP + DCD)
    	got the axe. All individual contributors. NO management.
    
    	
    	Very interesting.
    
    	Scott

Scott -
I"ve received 3 different rumours of total numbers.

BTW - we were told that policy was that supervisors and managers WERE not
to disclose the names of folks (other than direct reports) that were laid 
off.

However, I've heard that some managers actually handed out a list to their
reports.   That, I don't like.  

I did hear that it was about 10%, which would make 50 too small.

JD

    	JD,
    
    	Too small for sure. When CUP and DCD came together, we had
    	(I heard) 1123 people. So, 10% would of course be 112 people.
    
    	Ah, well. The remainder of this year and the beginning of next
    	year will be interesting, to say the least.
    
    	Scott

Scott -

I believe DCD already had layoffs - but I may be wrong.

I sure expected a lot more....

JD

Reminds me of the stories football players tell about the last cut
before the season.

The "Turk" comes around the dorm after lights out, wakes the players
up, asks them to bring their playbooks, and they're never seen again.


Scary stuff.


'Saw

DCD did indeed have a previous layoff - really deep too.  I heard up to 50% 
of certain groups.

I work for work for the "other" tech writing group in Digial, NAC Pubs.  We cut
10 out of 80 people, but 8 of ten were contractors.  Seemsed like a smart thing 
to do.  Problem is our VP is re-orging in September, and there could be another 
hit.

re: .51

Great idea.  I cain just see BobHunt as owner of the Asheville Tourists, 
lecturing a group of baby-faced hopefuls, prospects, suspect, and bushers on the
importance of fundamentals, while Metz paces back and forth in the ramshackle 
clubhouse muttering "software, software, software".

=Bob= 

Bob =

One thing we heard was that we would be using more contractors in the future,
and that DEC as a whole might be going that way.

Who knows?

JD

    re JD and Scott a few back:
    
    My management gave us (VMS/Alpha Documentation) a slightly different
    set of figures for IDC:
    
    There were approximately 950 permanent employees before the SERP plan 
        was offered back in the spring
    73 people took SERP
    68 people were laid off this week (about 8%)
    Additional attrition in the last few months of about 25 employees.
    
    My department lost two permanent employees (out of 38) and discontinued
    the contracts of three external contractors. 
    
    
    py        

    
> The "Turk" comes around the dorm after lights out, wakes the players
> up, asks them to bring their playbooks, and they're never seen again.
    
    A buddy and I have been using "The Turk" analogy for a couple of years
    now, joking about how when the manager says "get your playbook" you
    know it's all over, or "The Turk tapped Person XYZ today".  Black humor, 
    the great tension reliever...
    
    glenn
    

    I used to be "The Turk" during the summer when I interned with the
    team, sort of.  I wasn't the one who actually told them (a scout or
    coach always did) but I was the one who made the plane reservations and
    got the guy to the doctor for his pre-release physical and then to the
    airport for the trip home.  It's not a fun job and it certainly didn't
    prepare me for lasted week.
    
    Ninj

    The CIS-EIC that Bob, Dan'l, and I belong to are getting at 35-40% hit.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

	We've been told for the last three weeks that "next" monday 
	will be "the" day.  You can imagine how agonizing it is trying
	to go through the normal paces of the workday praying that your
	beeper doesn't go off.

	Up here at MKO2 in field service we have a pretty good idea 
	we will be hit, but have only speculated how deep and who.

	Good luck dan'l and Bob,

	Bill

    Bill, I know what you mean.  We've been hearing "Next week" since early
    July.
    
    The same thing happened back in February when we had our first hit.  We
    lost 3 engineers out of around 20.  Then, we lost 5 who went SERPing.
    However, we took on some small groups, so we're still over 20.  We've
    been told that the SERPers were extra, and that there are billets for
    them.  The billets would go first.  However, there are lots of stories,
    so I don't put any credence in any of them right now.  Too many of them
    are wishful thinking on someones part, and I can't tell the difference.
    
    I've been thru it before, and got hit, too, at another company.  It
    doesn't help to have already experienced it.  Matter of fact, I think
    it's worse because I know now how it felt at the time.
    
    Funny, though, it did work out for the best at the time.  That company,
    Centronics (printer Mfg.) eventually went out of business and sold out.
    The buildings are empty, but I ended up at DEC and have been here for
    almost 8 years.  At the time, things weren't that good in the
    marketplace, and now they are worse.  So, I did alright then, but it
    took awhile to realize that.  Pride can be an awful thing to have
    damaged, even when it really can be just the result of a business
    decision.
    
    Lee

	Boy if this doesn't give me a nice warm feeling...
	
	I just found out that all of the supervisors in our district
	are at a TFSO training seminar.  Also called the "How to 
	give them the boot and make them like it" class.

	I haven't had this much fun since my last root canal.


	Bill

If Bob Hunt gave me the opportunity to manage in the minors, software
would be the last thing on my mind... :-)

You'd see one heck of a hit and run, great defense, superb pitching
minor league powerhouse under my rule though :-)

You'd see 6 burners and 2 thumpers and pitchers that would be forced to
hit even if it was an AL farm club, you'd see green grass, picnic areas,
alcohol and family sections, no-smoking sections and guys wearing their
pants so that you could see the stirrup :-)


You'd see guys eager to play each night..or else...

and you'd see an Annie Savoy clone in the stands picking out her rookie
each and every year... :-)

Metz

    There's been a whole lot of water under our collective bridges
    since the last time I've checked into this arena. I needed to
    catch up on a bunch of stuff in here and I had a lot to 
    say too but what else is new?  Anyway, all that seems like  nothing
    but trivial drival now and it looks like monday is the day of
    rekoning around here also. If Vegas was giving odds they'd 
    probably be giving me around a 50-50 chance of being here by
    this time next week. We've been living like this for weeks now
    and the arrival of monday will be a major relief. No matter how it goes 
    we can once again get on with the business of getting on with our
    lives.    
    
    BoB    

    >>We've been living like this for weeks now
    >>and the arrival of monday will be a major relief. No matter how it goes 
    >>we can once again get on with the business of getting on with our
    >>lives.    
    
    >>BoB                 
    
    I wholeheartedly agree with ya BoB. I think that sitting around with
    the huge black cloud hanging overhead not knowing whether it's going to
    rain or blow over is nerve-wracking. I just wish they'd announce who
    goes as fast as possible and get it over with.  All of this D-day crap
    has probably produced more than a few ulcers, IMHO.
    
    Dragging it out and making people sweat over the weekend is definitely
    being sadistic.
    
    JMHO
    
    Still here(at least til Monday)
    
    JaKe
    

    I read through all the notes in here, and all I can do is chime in on
    all the "hope it doesn't happen to you" and "best of luck" sentiments
    that have already been expressed. I also have to agree with the
    absolute sickening feeling that managers are safe, and the people doing
    their work are not. There is NO such thing as "corporate logic."
    
    My group went through this a while ago. It was about October of 1990
    that the rumors started flying, and there's no way you could not let it
    affect your morale and performance, no matter how you tired to
    rationalize the rumors. Finally, in April 1991 they told us we would
    ALL get the boot... 350 writers, editors, graphic designers and video
    producers from 5 different sites. I was actually relieved, because I
    could at least get on with my life. Needless to say, none of the
    managers got hit, and they all found jobs inside Digital or with
    Quantic Communications, a subsidiary of DEC that masks itself as an
    independent company, but can't compete for MarComm jobs on a level
    playing field on its own.
    
    Digital still needed to get the work done, so many of us have come back
    as contractors. It's an accounting hoax, where instead of paying for me
    as an employee (overhead) they pay more (even without benefits) for my
    service as a vendor. Makes no sense, but I spose the boys on Wall
    Street think it makes DEC look better.
    
    The corporate policies and decision making are reeking like three-day-old
    mackerel, rotting in the afternoon sun. All I can say is I hope everyone 
    gets whatever they deserve out of life, whatever that may be.
    
    Tom

    FYI if you think you will be included in TFSO I would suggest printing
    out things like your resumes and other personal stuff before the
    official notification date. Although the official policy is to leave
    accounts and non-priv access intact until the last day of work some
    places have been cutting off access on the day people are informed.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Well, this is the doom and gloom note, so I guess this is the place -
    
    	It's been nice knowing you.  
    	The whole group of you that is.  
    
    I haven't been offically tapped yet, that is supposed to be Black
    Monday I believe, but the rumors are detailed enough that I believe
    them.  I have been keeping my ears to the ground for a while now and
    after the last company, I prefer this way, even as painfull as it is.
    
    I am going to miss ::SPORTS and I am going to miss the DEC culture. (I
    am NOT going to miss the travel.  Hopefully my dues are paid ;^) ) 
    
    I've been mostly RON for an extented period of time, but have been
    religiously keeping up to date.  For me, writting anything that can't
    be compiled is a laborous process.  I've long stood in awe of the
    writting skills of some in here.  I'm sorry that some of the good
    people in here will be leaving also.
    
    I hired on in the field way out on the edges, and for a long time felt
    more like a customer than an employee.  Notes and ::SPORTS in
    particular helped me make the transition.  I will be forever thankfull
    since the good qualities of the culture are truely remarkable and I am
    richer for being part of it.
    
    My frustration level has been high for a while.  But I'll try to be
    civil and not say things I may or may not mean.  I think that Digital
    has many good things going for it, but I have few good things to say
    about middle management.
    
    God, this never gets easy.
    Scott Kirkman
    
    
    PS  I too have heard rumors that Digital is seriously looking at
    subcontracting services (hardware, consulting) like SUN is. It may
    work, but is it ever high risk.

 And here's a deep thought for you all ...  More and more of my colleagues
 here in the Charlotte OPA office are sharing their emotions and feelings
 as these last days dwindle down.  All of our front-line managers have been
 laid off as well as us so they're suffering just as much.
 
 I'm going to keep the names out of this but one thing we're finding out is
 that we were often referred to as "whining prima donnas" in some of our
 upper-level management circles.   Those same circles that have chopped us,
 no doubt.
 
 And therein lies a fundamental problem with Digital.  Think about it. 
 Management is overhead.  Always has been.
 
       *** NO ONE GOES TO THE OPERA TO HEAR THE 'DIRECTOR' SING ***
  
 Digital management has to understand that it serves the individual
 contributors who in turn serve the customers.  Not the other way around. 
 You and I don't make any money for Digital by making our bosses happy.  We
 make it by making our customers happy.   Money flows in one direction only
 in this case.   Your boss doesn't pay your salary ... Your *customer*
 does.   Your customer pays for your boss, too.  And her boss.  And his
 boss.  And so on right on up to KO and BP.
 
 Without front-line cash earners like us, there is *nothing* left to
 manage.   There will be no beans to count.  This all sadly reminds me of
 some of the moans and groans I've heard from system managers over the
 years ... 
 
 "This system would run just fine if we could somehow get these cranky
 users off of it !!!" 
 
 Fool, without those users, you don't have a *JOB*, ace.   
 
 There's little doubt in my mind that we irritated the sheet out of our
 upper-level managers.   We were always asking annoying questions, always
 asking for approval for investment funding, constantly thinking up new
 ways to get nearer to customers, consistently yawning and acting bored
 when they paid us a "royal visit" and tried to talk to us about the
 numbers and the vision and the organizational structure and who reports to
 so-and-so and who's in charge of this-and-that and on and on and on ...
 
 I'm not at all surprised that they thought we were whining prima donnas. 
 But they missed the whole point.   They were supposed to be there for us. 
 To lead and to guide.  To nurture and to protect.   To encourage and to
 reward.   To learn and to teach.
 
 I actually feel much better now knowing someone thought I was a "whining
 prima donna".   Proves to me we really were important.
 
 Bob Hunt

Bob, 

Your whole note reminds me of the joke Denny sent around yesterday about
the crew race between IBM and DEC. 

    

         IBM and DEC decided to have a boat race, on the
         Thames, following the famous Oxford vs Cambridge course.
         
         Both teams practiced hard, and came the big day, they were as
         ready as they could be.
         
         IBM won by a mile.
         
         Afterwards, the DEC team were very downhearted, and a decision
         was made that the reason for the crushing defeat had to be
         found, so a working party was set up to investigate and
         report.
         
         Well, they had everybody on the working party, Sales, Systems
         Engineering, Marketing, Customer Education, Field Service,
         the whole lot, and after 3 months they came up with the
         answer, and the working party co-ordinator gave his summary
         presentation.
         
         "The problem was", he said, "that IBM had 8 people rowing
         and 1 steering, whereas we had 1 person rowing and 8
         steering."
          
         The working party was then asked to go away and come up with
         a plan to prevent a recurrence the following year, for DEC's
         pride had been damaged, and another defeat was not wanted.
         
         2 months later, the working party had worked out a plan, and
         the coordinator gave his (customarily brief) summary--
 
         "The guy rowing has got to work harder" 
    
	 So the following year the two teams met once again by the banks
	 of the Thames.  And again IBM won by a wide margin.

	 The DEC team reconvened their working committee, which spent
	 several more months investigating the defeat and formulating
	 a recovery plan.  After exaustive study it was determined that
	 in order to win they must lighten the boat ...

	 ... so they threw the rower overboard.





That is what they have been doing.  Throwing the rowers overboard.
Granted, I've seen some rowers who don't have their oar in the water, and
they deserve to be chopped, but this shotgun method that is happening
is just not helping.

Digital's problems started when mid-level management began to get
heavy.  And all too often the philosophy of "well, he/she didn't get
the job done, so we will promote them and put them on a special
project" has come back to bite us in the a__ with the ferocity of a
rabid dog.


The only advice I can offer to folks is, if there's anyway to enhance
your skill set, DO IT.  You might need it....


'Saw

 Re: The over-abundance of middle-level management ...
 
 The Roman Catholic Church has 800,000,000 members and has had a simple
 five (5) layer organizational chart for close to 2,000 years now.   Think
 about it.   Pope, cardinal, bishop, priest, flock.
 
 And they ain't "rightsizing" anytime soon, either ...
 
 Bob Hunt

    Face it, if all but one individual contributor gets laid off, that lone
    individual will require 5 layers of management above him/her to
    analyze, criticize, ostrasize and, eventually, rightsize.
    
    Rich
     

re: .82

>    analyze, criticize, ostrasize and, eventually, rightsize.

Didn't Bob Dylan write this song?

TTom

    
    Tis a sad, sad reflective time indeed. I'm shaken by this constant
    reduction of our valiant corps. Two soldiers, nay, two generals,
    are the most recent of our losses. The Light Brigade itself could
    not withstand such trauma. But we must try. We, however temporarily,
    must overcome this wrong, remembering the insight and wisdom of
    our soon-to-be liberated builders. Alas our edifice known as SPORTS
    has had its mortar shaken. Our vital foundation has been loosened.
    Granite-like icons in repose, those known as Hawk, Mike Jn, Doc,
    JoJ, Glen Johnson, Dinz, BA, Alison, MrT, Dan Schneider, Madge,
    and now Bob Hunt and dan'l, remain in memory ensconsed as in the
    figures of Mt. Rushmore, their legacies frozen in prose.
    
    With no disparagement meant towards the others dearly departed, I
    always felt a certain kinship to Three; dan'l. Bob and MrT. Why?
    All three had noting skills, however dissimilar, seemed to embody
    the essence of each. Bob, with his masterful, insightful command
    of Sportslogic, opened my eyes onmany occasion. Dan'l, with his
    forcefulness, vibrancy and bouyancy ( no pun) reflected his
    damn the torpedos (oes?) attitude towards life, moistened my eyes
    with laughter on many occasion. I was fortunate enough to meet
    these two gentleman and now I say thanks. And MrT? Well MrT should
    suffice. His many eructations of verbiage has closed my eyes on many
    occasion 8^). 
    
    IMO, we have lost Three Regents of SPORTS. Akin to the Three Elven
    Rings of Lore, this Triad is passing before us. I envision this
    passing just as Cirdan the Shipwright sadly watched the Three 
    passing from the Gray Havens to the West to fulfill their legacy
    
    And although our SPORTS foundation of Gondor is being assailed
    by the forces of change, we shall forever be able to reflect on
    the musings of our brethren in the image of the Three Orbs, the
    Palantir. In our minds, we shall always "see" our shapers.
    
    How will I recall our Triad. With of course, sovereign-like
    monikers.
    
    The King of Schwing- need I describe more fully the joie de  
                         vivre attitude of our seaworthy Neptune.
    
    The King of Deaning- deaning, aka to dean. An almost untranslatable
                         description of "laying one bare" You need only
                         to read his myriad of notes in 17 to capture
                         his duende-like, Solomonic cleansing of a 
                         so-called Sacred Cow.
    
    The King of Sling-   No need to say more. With an array of twists
                         that old Hibernian legend Brian Boru would
                         genuflect before, the Master of plot.
    
    
    Sigh, thank you gentlemen, God-speed, and good luck.
    
    MikeL
    
                         

    
    The Crazy Met
    

    re .85
    
    You covered Groucho, Harpo and Chico. But there was a 4th Marx bother
    who had every bit the impact on ::SPORTS that MT had.
    
    Let us not forget Dan "Park Effects" Schnieder.
    
    Rich
    

    
     Well,  looks like I got in here just in time.  Good luck to all
    and,  May The Force Be With You !!!
    
    Big Game
    
    P.s.  I find it very interesting that here in Colorado we really
          haven't  lost any management that didn't want to go.  In 
          fact, early on in the whole shitty process (We've been through
    	  4 rounds of this crap in manufacturing) some mgmt were pulling
    	  strings to get the big bucks with jobs already lined up with 
    	  the competition, customer or supplier.  They should have been
    	  fired, instead they were rewarded.  I've worked for DEC for 
    	  13 years...  the company has been good to me and my family.
    	  It has provided me with a good living and a safe place to 
    	  work.  I have met many very intresting people and have made
    	  many friends I will never forget.  I beleive that DEC is on the 
    	  verge of losing it's conscience and middle mgmt is to blame.
    
    
    	

    Damn, Saw.....now I've got to re-read the entire Tolkein Trilogy....and
    I might as well throw in The Hobbitt too!!!
    
    The analogies you chose painted vivid images in my mind!!!!
    
    
    NOW CUT IT OUT!!!!!
    
    
    Nelly
    

    I'll loan you dinz' hallugeons too nelly 'cuz while 'Saw mighta been
    the inspiration, ah was the perspiration.
    
    8^),HTH
    MikeL
    
    

>    Damn, Saw.....now I've got to re-read the entire Tolkein Trilogy....and
>    I might as well throw in The Hobbitt too!!!
>    
>    The analogies you chose painted vivid images in my mind!!!!
    

Nelly, it weren't me.  It was MikeL that did that too you.  Last time
I read the Trilogy I was in France, but it's clear enough for me
to remember it.

Just might be that if this winter is as cold and bleak as they say it
will be, I might just pick it up again too.....  You can never read the
Trilogy too much.

'Saw    

    You also need to reread the Simarillion which is where some of the
    stuff in MikeL's note comes from.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    MikeL,
    
    Sorry to give credit to the wrong author!!  I went back to find out how
    it was I became confused.....it must have been your reference to
    Chainsaw in your P-Name!!!!
    
    
    
    Anyhoo...........best of luck to you all......hope this interuption in
    your careers turns out to be a positive one in the long run!!!!
    
    
    
    Regards,
    
    Nelly

    Twas jest teasin' Nelly,
    I'm jest tryin' to tickle 'Saw into one of his classic Onan-filled
    platitudes!!
    
    MikeL
    

>    I'm jest tryin' to tickle 'Saw into one of his classic Onan-filled
>    platitudes!!
    
Oh man.

Onan...  Does that take me back.  Onan was the guy in the Bible who
went blind for spilling his seed.  Which is where the saying "If you
don't stop it you'll go blind" came from.

Hmmmm.......

I have to be honest though, and say that for me it is very tough to
come up with something right now.  I have such downhearted feelings.

I mean, Sports has always been a Sports Tavern, and you could always
come in, grab a barstool, have Hawk or whoever was behind the bar draw
you a cold one, and next thing you know you'd be arguing with Doc
about Larry Bird, or you'd be debating George Bush's war record with
MrT, or you'd be berating ACC Chris about Dean, hoping that BobHunt
would stop in for a cold one to lead the charge.

But now the Tavern is changing.  Hell, it's not just the Tavern, it's
the whole neighborhood that's changing too.  I mean, the little Tudor
house across the street, that had been there for a couple of hundred
years just got torn down.  I hear they want to put a 7-11 in there.
And the nice brownstone on the corner got torn down to put in a parking
lot.   And the row houses just down the street to the south were
torn down for a Citgo station....

Yeah, the Tavern is changing.  I mean, to me, it would be like Cheers
without Norm, Sammy, Cliff and Woody.  And that's what is happening
here.

Hey JD.  Nope, Kelly Stauffer hasn't come in yet.... He's still
scared to I think....


I mean, we can get Kev behind the bar sometimes, but we have to watch
that he doesn't drink one, serve one, drink one, serve one....8^)

And, nothing against all the new folks who have been popping in, but
they are new.  Not that the Sports Tavern is anything like old Maine,
where if you haven't lived in a town for 8 or 9 generations you're
a newcomer, but it will take time for us to get to know the new folks.


Yeah, times change and folks move on.  I think of the fondness with which
my dad speaks when he remembers guys who were on his sub in WWII.  After
the war they all went their separate ways.  But for a couple of years,
they lived together in cramped quarters, they sweated together,
and they knew they might die together.  And then one day it was all
over.

Perhaps my dad was luckier, because it ended one day, and the next
everyone said goodbye and scattered to the Four Winds.  In here, 
people are drifting off, pulled away and there are those of us left
behind who miss them.


Yeah, the Tavern is changing.  Not that the Chainsaw was a phenomenal
writer or anything, but he could always be counted on to give it his
best try come holiday time.  Nowadays the Saw can't even find the
inspiration to fill out a subscription card to renew his Playboy subscription,
never mind write an essay.


Hey!  You over there.  Don't sit on that stool!  That's Bob Hunt's stool.
No, he's not here, but that's his stool, man, that's his spot.  No, *I*
said you can't sit there....  Hey, are we gonna have to step outside?
Just don't f___ing sit there...

Sheesh, see what I mean?  This place is changing already.


I heard they're gonna put in a new window in the front, and change the
sign around a little.   They're talking about resurfacing the bar.
I'm bummed about that.  One night, someone took out a penknife and
carved "1 for 31" in the bar.   I mean, that's our heritage, that's
moments in our life that someone would be sanding down and shellacking.


Wait a minute there buddy...  No, you don't shellack a bat, stupid,  you laquer
it, and if you have any smarts, you only lacquer it HALFWAY! Geez, these new
guys.



You know the sad part is that they want to re-do this bar.  They're using
some fancy name for it...rightsizing I think.  The problem is that they're
messing with the bar.  Now if they wanted to fix it up a bit, they should
start in the back, with the Men's room.  I mean, that toilet back there
has never worked too well.    Why mess with what works?

And the Franklin stove over there.  I mean, how many times did we
sit around that in January, just after the SuperBowl (or long before
if you're a Patriots fan) and talk about the coming baseball season.
Hell, we even had lEe who used to play American Legion ball with
Babe Ruth telling us stories by that stove.....   Well, the new owners
want to take that out.  Something about a new fire code or something...



Kev, draw me another beer, will ya?  This reminiscing is thirsty work.


The Trial.  Twenty-five hundred blocks that could most probably be called
The Golden Hour of Sports.  A cast of characters that Cecil B. Demille
would have envied, and more twists and turns of plot than in a Hitchcock
thriller.

heh, heh, heh, remember "Oh Bob, it's all thrust up and knobby"?  How
could you forget?

MrT, playing the parapalegic lawyer in the wheelchair, draped in the
American flag witha bottle of Jack Daniels underneath it.   Boy, 
what a psychoanalyst couldn't do with that little tidbit eh?


How bout Moochie Matt?  I mean, you try to do one nice thing and
everyone is ready to move you off your stool and send you to the
Fern Bar a few blocks over, calling you Alan Alda in the process.

And who could ever forget the endless DeanBashing.  Why, for a while
there I thought we had created perpetual motion, as we'd go around and
around and around....

And, from the sublime, we would go to the ridiculous.   How many times
has x Team won a championship.    Hell, that could be Sports' Eternal
Question...


No, we never solved anything.  But we did make some fast friends.
And you know, while we all had our differences, while we all had
our opinions, I have a feeling if some guys from the IBM SportsBar
decided to come in here and look for trouble, we would have, to
a man (or woman), defended our turf....


Yep, it's all changing, and I don't know if what it becomes will ever
approach what it was.   The Golden Age is passing, and I fear we're
on a downhill slide.   In fact, if you listen hard, you might hear
the Goths and Visigoths coming over the hills....


Kev, a Glenlivet on the rocks please.  I'll need something a little stronger
to deal with  the Goths.   Thanks dude.


Well, my father taught me some good toasts, but I'll try one of my
own:

	To Hawk, To Dinz, To Doc, To BobHunt, to Dan'l,
	To Dan, To A&W, to Mike JN, to all the rest of the gallant
	Sports Noters of yore, I offer this toast.

	And as my friend Nick (he of the 3rd Amored
	Cav) and all his Army buddies would say:

	To Absent Comrades....




Man, that's good stuff.


Well, it's about time I was movin' on.  I hear that Kelly is cookin' up
some fine food tonight, and I've got to stay a little sober for dessert
if you get my drift....


Yep, Sports is a lot like rugby.....after a while they always whistle
No Side....


'Saw

      This note depresses me.
    
      I better do this now since I may not have time tommorrow, and I have
    cranial vapor lock as to when your last day is so,
    
      even though I never met youze guys,  good luck to both of you on your
    new ventures!!  You will be missed from this conference!  There is your
    kind of work to be found in this country and I'm sure you will do just
    that if your "hobbies" don't take off to what fun you would like to
    have with them.
    
      If you come to Colorado for whatever reasons, please enjoy it and
    look some of us up!
    
      Bumming all the way,
    
    	Tim

    
    This might be the most sincere and sensitive note I'll ever write and
    please save the flaiming......
    
    Almost five years ago I was going through what would be the most
    unsettling, troublesometime of my life.  Pre-JEC I was a CC MGR,
    leading 17 junior people in HLO.  We were spending almost $300Million
    a year as DEC tried to catch up.  They were ~6 years behind the "state
    of the art" and the stuff/timelines needed were incredible.  I was in
    line to take over the whole magilla and was looking forward to the
    promo to a level 11 (after JEC it's ~= to level 39).  HLO management,
    with their anal rententive behavior cided to look outside for s
    someone"from the outside" to fill the position DESPITE the fact that
    I was originally from the outside AND had a VP from DEC inquire why I
    wasn't being considered.
    To make a long story short, I ran the entire group for 9 months without
    **ANY** degradation in performance.
    They found somebody (from Fairchild, silicon valley) 9 months later
    He became my boss
    I became #2 
    He hired 3 of his buddies
    I became #5
    JEC came along
    
    He felt me as a threat since I was " the one  the staff went to when
    things needed fixing" AND the SOB was a sonofabitch who cared less
    about those under him.
    
    JEC came along and I was grade lowered to *BELOW* mt original hiring 
    level! ( only  7 years later)
    
    Then to add insult to injury, I was transferred to another CC and
    group.
    
    I was devistated...............
    
    While they looked for a job for me, I found SPORTS.  This was when
    Frankwa was in france, Crunchie was a nut, DinZ's keyboard was waccho
    and RCaso hadn't been hired.  MrT was unable to do anything less than
    a 200 line reply, Karen was active and MtM was yet to be a *F*.
    
    I RON'd for over a year but the facts that I was able to follow this
    conference was undoubtably responsible for me being able to cope.
    
    Bob, dan'l, Schneid, Waggamain, 'saw, and everybody else......
    you helped me through the toughtest times since then.  For that, you're
    alway's going to be my "family".  I remember folks moving to different
    locations, changing nodes and the sports they discovered.)
    
    
    I HOLD MY FAMILY IN HIGHEST ESTEEM!
    
    (I'ts late, I'm upset and I apologize for not including all those
    members of my family in this note.  It was inadvertant and hopefully
    I'll include you later.)

    Go to bed Kev...no one should be up this late... (sincere smiley might
     go here if I believed in them...)
    
    
    If I don't get in here tomorrow... good luck to those fortunate enough
    to not worry about Turk anymore.  And may this be a parallel step to
    greater heights in the future... and go UNCC!!! (I put 2 C's in Bob,
    so don't get upset...)

    Well, since some have gone back aways, let's not forget other noters
    that have been whacked, like Hoot and Monty, two of my altime favorites
    because of their blind loyalty to the Raiders.
    
    Best of luck to all who are leaving, and to those that may find that
    they too are exiting come Monday.  It's okay to look back a bit, but
    remember that the future lies in FRONT of you, so go and make the best
    of what life has in store for you.  Just keep in mind that all of you
    have friends here who will, at times, wonder what has become of you and
    your families.  And, that DEC is filled with nice people, most of whom
    do NOT have a say in the way things are decided and done.  
    
    Spit out any sour taste you may have, so that you may savor the good
    things in life that you will find on your journeys.
    
    Those of us that remain will not forget the brothers and sisters who
    are no longer amoungst us.  Please keep the stayers in mind, because
    they will need all the help they can get to overcome this loss.
    
    Lee, who looks like a pretzel, what with fingers and toes and arms and
         legs and eyes crossed.
    

                        Re- this whole note....
    
              Wow insert goosebumps here.
    
           I've been with Dec for 6 yrs and only with a system account for
    3. I added Sports into my personal file back than but never really had
    the time to keep up with all the notes flying to and fro. Just recently
    (2 months ago)reaquired Sports into my file and I have enjoyed it
    immensely.  I guess I've missed the majority of BoB HuNt's and Dan'l's
    replies but reading through about 8700 old notes and the past 2 weeks
    I realize what I'm gonna miss and what I really have missed. Snuffy
    himself would have tears in his eyes if he was allowed to read through
    these last hundred or so replies, the Big guy upstairs must have some
    grand plan, or he wouldn't deprive us of thes 2 LITERARY GIANTS. 
    
    
               The Stool shall be blazened in Gold, and any new
    unrespectful drinker outta this Sports keg who dares degragate it had
    better beware.
              " If God were here he'd tell it to your face man your some
    kinda sinner."
    
                                           Chappy...

    Geez, anybody got a box of Kleenex I cain borrow!!   (8^)*
    
    Bob Hunt and --dan'l, and anybody else who is leaving REAL soon,
    best of luck to ya all!!!!
    
    Bob and --dan'l, specially, I'll never forget that night at the Paper
    Doll Lounge, NEVER!!  One of the best nights of my life in recent
    years.
    
    Too bad I don't have a picture of that lipstick imprint, though.
    
    I think 'Saw summed it up perfectly beck 5 or so notes, in saying that
    things are changing in here.  When I first got in here about 4 or 5
    years ago, not too long before The Trial, this was the only place I
    wanted to get into first thing when I logged onto the system.  Anything
    you wanted, you could get at the Tavern.  Now it seems this place is
    going to just have a couple of old farts sitting at the bar running up
    one whale of a tab, and waiting for the Social Security check each
    month to pay some of it off.
    
    I pray for you guys that this has only been a stepping stone for younz
    and that what lies ahead is much better than what you had here.
    
    Send somebody mail on the E-Net so's they cain enter it here for ya.
    
    JaKe

    Maybe was should change the title of this note to
    
    "The Cindy Note"
    
    as a tribute to how our vocabulary has been expanded (AND it's
    not DECspeak!)
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    

RE: Kev's story

As I've told Kev, I have a very similar experience with my job a couple of 
years ago, and my sentiments are very similar.  

During trying times most people have a tendancy to become disenfranchised from 
their work group.  This happened to me when my job disintegrated, and I felt
like an outsider in my own building.  My work place contact group became my 
friends in ::SPORTS (and my running buddies).  While I didn't enter as many 
notes as some, the file was, none the less a salvation for my sanity.  A lot of
the departed, and soon to be departed with their wit, wisdom and insanity were
a beacon in a foggy time.

If BobHunt and dan'l get to read these notes, I too wish them the best.  As I 
said, I'm certain they will do well in their lives.  To those of us left, as 
difficult as it may be, maybe we can keep the spirit of ::SPORTS alive.

On a less serious note:

There's no way Kev could be the barkeep - he couldn't see over the bar!!

    	So long and good luck gentlemen.  We'll always have Paris.  8^)
    
    				/Don

>There's no way Kev could be the barkeep - he couldn't see over the bar!!

Bob, 

Rent "Silverado", see Linda Hunt (no relation to Bob) as the barkeep.... 8^)


'Saw

>    	So long and good luck gentlemen.  We'll always have Paris.  8^)
    

This could be the start of a beautiful friendship.....


'Saw

    
>>Rent "Silverado", see Linda Hunt (no relation to Bob) as the barkeep.... 8^)
        ^^^^^^^^^
    
    What's a failed Savings & Loan have to do with barkeeps???
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe

|>>Rent "Silverado", see Linda Hunt (no relation to Bob) as the barkeep.... 8^)
|        ^^^^^^^^^
|    
|    What's a failed Savings & Loan have to do with barkeeps???
|    


Jake, Jake, Jake.

Dan'l would tell you it's one of the BEST western movies of all time.
It start Scott Glenn, Danny Glover, Kevin Costner, and the guy who's
name escapes me but who played in The January Man.....


Cool flick,
'Saw

    Was that Kevin Kline, maybe????
    
    JaKe
    

>    Was that Kevin Kline, maybe????
>    
>    JaKe

Yeah, that's it!

Couldn't think of his name to save my life.....    

>Onan...  Does that take me back.  Onan was the guy in the Bible who
>went blind for spilling his seed.  Which is where the saying "If you
>don't stop it you'll go blind" came from.
    
    NOT!  Read Genesis 38.  Onan was slain by God for spilling his seed.
    
    Mike

     We would like to apologize for the way in which Digital management
     is represented in this forum. It was never our intention to imply
     that they are weak-kneed, political a$$-coverers who are concerned
     more with their personal vendettas and private power struggles, than
     the problems Digital currently faces, nor to suggest at any point that
     they sacrifice their credibility by admitting their mistakes in the
     mistaken impression that 'Doing The Right Thing' comes before 'Doing
     The Thing Right', nor to imply at any stage that they are squabbling
     little toadies without an ounce of concern for anyone but themselves.
     Nor indeed do we intend that we should consider them as crabby ulcer-
     ous little self-seeking vermin with furry legs and an excessive add-
     iction to alcohol and certain explicit sexual practices which some
     might find offensive. I am sorry if this impression has come across.

     Slightly plagarized, but it had to be said. *^)
     Neal-mostly-a-RON

    re: .115
    
    Impressions, what nonsense. This conference concentrates solely on
    FACK's, imagined or real.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

re Onan:
	
	Mike, I *knew* that.  What makes you think I didn't know
	that 8^) 8^)

	I was just takin' a little literary license.....


re .115:

	Well, where I come from there are two classes of people:

		worker bees
	
	and

		lizard pig dog bosses.


	Anyone can read anything they want to into that.....8^)


'Saw

    re .115 & .117
    
    True AND rollward ver both of these!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    JaKe
    

     Well, I'm off for vacation for two weeks. I hope when I return 
    they've decided to keep my building open. Word is we may close 
    which of course would have a deleterious effect on my employment
    situation. I also hope that everyone here is still here when I 
    return. Good luck to those of you on your way out - you'll be
    missed.


    _Tommy
    

 
                        *** A Walk Down Memory Lane ***

 Okay, here it goes.  We have been informed that we will be "officially"
 notified of our termination of employment on Tuesday, 8-Sep-1992.  I am
 anticipating a lot of "final" activities around the office these nexted few
 weeks so I'm going to post this farewell note now.  So, buckle your seat
 belts, get yourself a box of fresh tissues, and get ready for some fond
 memories, deep thoughts, and some good laughs ...

 SPORTS is so deeply embedded inside my very soul that I will probably have to
 check into the Betty Ford Clinic for a few weeks of SPORTS detox.  I'll
 probably just curl up in the fetal position and waste my days mumbling things
 like "nexted", "Snuffy", "Iggles", "rollward", "Homer", "Sir Mistake", "lats",
 "Plato", "rugby", "I remain", "Jihad", "Voltaire", "Ninja", "Wardle Shooter",
 "Soup", "Raving One" and a hundred gazillion million more ...

 I've been an active SPORTS noter since 1986.   There's only a very few left in
 here who also go back that far.   I think John Devlin, Lee Timmons and maybe a
 few more were here earlier.   I've seen SPORTS reside on RUBY, ASABET, MILVAX,
 and OURGNG as well as CAM.  And there may be other nodes I can't recall.  
 I've seen Dan Schneider, Tom Shaughnessy, Dennis Parziale (RIP), Mike
 Johnston, Ralph Caso, Al Cote (RIP), Hoot Gibson, John Szabo, George Brooks
 and several other distinguished SPORTS noters come and go.   And don't forget
 those wonderfully amazing CLEMSON lads from RAVEN1 at the Greenville, SC
 plant.  And now I join them and others who are leaving Mother Digital for the
 wide open spaces.

 My first "crusade" here in SPORTS was against the Celtics fans.  I was living
 in Delaware at the time and was a rabid Philly Phan.  1986 was the zenith for
 the Bean Boys.   Larry Bird didn't just walk on water; According to his
 faithful, he didn't even get his feet wet.
 
 Someone would enter a perfectly innocent note in here like "Can anyone tell me
 who quarterbacked the Raiders before Daryle Lamonica?" and the instant reply
 from a Celts fanatic would always be "Larry Bird", of course.   Didn't matter
 what the topic or the time of day ... To his fans, Larry Bird was responsible
 not only for the Celts' successes but also for finding a cure for cancer,
 solving the international banking crisis, standing in for Mother Theresa, and
 establishing meaningful contact with extraterrestrial lifeforms.   He simply
 could do no wrong.  It was the blindest of blind faiths and it had to go down.

 And so I christened them the "Larry Bird Jihad" to signify an acknowledgment
 of both their passion and their radicalism.   And I named their team "The Holy
 Green Sweat Socks" and got trademarks for them both.   And, oh you should have
 heard the hue and cry.  Many a wail and a moan was heard from points north.  I
 got all kinds of amazingly serious hate mail and several impassioned replies
 in here to my shocking mother of all blasphemies against their hero and his
 pals in green.

 I was called several names ... mostly jealous.  I blasted the Celts for giving
 my hoops hero, the great Dr J, a piece of their stupid parquet floor as a
 going-away gift.  I dug my heels in and stood my ground and did not budge.  
 My crowning moment of glory in my anti-Jihad crusade came when I posted a
 fictional press release detailing the Jihad's pathetics attempts to terrorize
 me a la Salman Rushdie for publishing a book called "The Celtanic Verses". 
 This marked the high water mark for me for that particular crusade and I soon
 moved on to better windmills.  Dr Midnight had come in shortly before "Verses"
 was published and he was only too eager to pick up the torch.  Doc and I had a
 great bond in SPORTS.  I've never met him but I feel like I know him very very
 well through our shared cause.  Although he did have a curiously high number
 of all-time favorite teams ... :-)

 And so I moved on to other crusades ... With MrT against Air Schneid on the
 Designated Geek ... Against MrT on the ACC versus the Big Ten ... With MrT on
 Prop 48 ... Against MrT on God only knows what else (Joe Stalin in the
 Ukraine, fer cripes sakes) ... And then with him again on a few hundred more
 topics.  I learned how to note in here from Tom Shaughnessy.  I have to give
 him credit for that. 

 I've never seen anyone wield a "pen" like that before or since.   Most of what 
 he said was total horsecrap and he knew it.  His only goal was to keep the
 debates going.  He never meant anything personal although it was extremely
 tough to tell most of the time.   He forced me to examine each and every
 single one of my arguments and issues looking for ways he could trap me or
 turn my tables on me.   He made me focus on the facts to the utter exclusion
 of all else.   I don't remember how many times I fell into one of his clever
 little traps but I always tried to learn from each one of them and then make
 my own arguments that much tighter and that much stronger.  I'd like to think
 I made him sweat on more than just a few occasions.  Believe me, I earned
 those moments.

 So what are some other things I've accomplished in here ???   Until last
 summer, I ran an annual "Kiner's Korner" note where I posted the incredibly
 funny malaprops uttered by Mets' announcer Ralph Kiner and printed by a gifted
 sportswriter, Jayson Stark, at the Philadelphia Inquirer.   I even got one
 published myself back in 1989 when I called Stark at his office and told him
 that the night before Kiner had called a Slim-Fast'ed Tommy Lasorda just "a
 shadow of himself" during a Mets-Dodgers game.  Stark laughed with me and then
 printed it the nexted week.   Man, that felt good.

 And what about my favorite pro teams ???  I entered this conference as a
 lifelong Philadelphia fan.  Hence, my love for the Eagles, Phillies, Sixers,
 and Flyers.  Of these teams during this time period, the Eagles have fared the
 best, I suppose.   We saw the five-year reign of His Rudeness, my nickname for
 Buddy Ryan.  Ryan brought the Iggs to new heights with the 1988 NFC East crown
 but they got fogged out against Da Bears and they haven't been back to that
 level since.  Ryan is gone and the Iggles are still a Supe contender but this
 hard-boiled fan knows better than to count any eaglets in the nest before they
 actually hatch.  Voice of experience ...

 The Phils haven't done squat since 1986 although I've spared no gush raving 
 about my all-time baseball hero ... Mr Michael Jack Schmidt, the greatest hot
 cornerman of all time (sorry, Brooks).   The Sixers won the 1990 Atlantic
 Division title but not much else.  And I don't even know half the Flyers
 roster anymore.   All in all, I have a few things worth cheering about but no
 rings.   What I have tried to do with my Philly Phandom is to be as phanatical
 as possible while maintaining absolute objectivity in my arguments.  *No* one
 has bashed the Eagles harder than I have yet I'd walk through the Gates Of
 Hell themselves defending them against the heathen Deadskins, Jints, and
 Pokes.

 And I've done the same with my newly adopted love ... the Charlotte Hornets.  
 After slightly more than midway through my tenure here in SPORTS, I packed up
 my beloved Cindy and our MicroHUNTs and we moved to the Queen City.  I have
 not regretted it for one single second.  I love living in ACC country once
 again and the weather is to kill for.   And the Hornets are like being a
 teenager in love all over again.  A fresh young zit-faced team that, more
 often than not, trips on its own untied shoelaces while asking the pretty girl
 to the prom.

 Fresh new players, fresh new fans, a gorgeous new coliseum, upset victories,
 high draft picks ... A total pro hoops rebirth.  I recommend whole-heartedly
 that if you ever move to another sports city, give your fan's soul to your new
 team as soon as you arrive.  You won't regret it.   My transformation to a
 Hornets fan was complete when I soared right alongside Sir Larry Johnson on
 his incredible thunder slam earlier this year in the Spectrum that beat my
 formerly beloved Charles Barkley and his Sixers.   As Larry's dunk went down,
 my fist went skyward.   I've tried to apply the same sense of objective yet
 passionate criticism of the Hornets.   No one bashed JR Reid harder lasted
 season for his lethargic play but no one saluted the young stud as quickly as
 I did this year when he played inspired NBA ball for the first time.

 And I take particular pride in whip-cracking the horses pulling the Larry
 Johnson Bandwagon all the way from a No 1 draft pick to the 1992 NBA Rookie Of
 The Year.   Sometimes it just feels so right.   Watching that young man play
 lasted season was an exercise in restrained joy.   The impulse to scream "I
 Told You So!" was oh-so-strong.   But "professional decorum" prevented me from
 doing something so blatant and so obviously self-serving in return.   Suffice
 to say that a certain baby blue fan will most likely think twice before making
 that same "mistake" again.

 And what about my beloved Wahoos ???   I know we have several alums in here
 from various academic institutions and that I'm not alone in wearing my school
 colors on my sleeve for all to see.  But I am alone in bleeding Virginia
 Orange and Blue to the ultimate max of all maxes.   These past 6-plus years
 have been quite interesting for my alma mater's teams.   The basketball team
 has been fairly competitive.  They have no rings to show for their efforts
 unless you count the 1992 NIT champeenship (which I don't).   But they have
 been entertaining and have fought hard with a 1989 Final Eight berth as their
 high point.

 The football Cavaliers soared to unheard of heights in the 1990 season and
 then came crashing down to earth in a string of shattering defeats.  I still
 can not comprehend, after all those years of 2-9 and 3-8, that a Virginia
 football team actually ruled the world for about a month.   Yes, I admitted
 that their talent had peaked past their schedule's strength but I was not at
 all ashamed of sitting at No 1 for that month of October 1990.   The
 disappointing end was inevitable, I suppose.  After all these were the Wahoos
 we were dealing with here.   But that ride was unlike any other.

 And now we come to the "personal" stuff ... I'll probably miss a few items
 here and there but I can recall adding more than just a few entries to the
 peronsal side of SPORTS culture.  One is my dear wife, Cindy.  Most of you
 wouldn't know her to look at if she ran up to you and smacked you in the face. 
 But you all know what kind of movies she likes to watch ...  Bear with me now
 as we recall one more time what makes a "Cindy Movie" ...

 First off, it's always a family.  The dad is a drunk who's lost his last six
 jobs.  The mom scrubs floors at night to make ends meet but she really wants
 to make it to Nashville so she can be a country and western star.  Her older
 brother is a 'Nam vet who's been in and out of psycho wards ever since '68. 
 Her kids either need an operation or some time in reform school.  Grandma and
 Grandpa were evicted from their house and are sleeping in her bedroom.  And
 the dog ran away ...

 Then, all of a sudden, she meets up with a talent agent in the Piggly Wiggly
 checkout line.  Dad dries up and opens up a car repair garage, her mom and dad
 win the Florida lottery, older brother gets his Agent Orange settlement and
 goes to work in the garage and her kid's cancer is cured.   Her C&W hit called
 "Help Me, Lord Jesus, To See Mister Sun Again" goes Top 10 with a bullet ...
 and the dog comes home as the credits roll ...  And they always star has-been
 tube actresses like Lindsay Wagner or Valerie Bertinelli.

 About two years ago, I started writing some fun commentary in here about LA
 Law, the NBC show about a Los Angeles law firm.  I don't know how it caught on
 with such popularity but, before you knew it, we had something going here. 
 Hawk actually wrote me thanking me for the LA Law write-ups 'cause that was
 the only way he was gonna "git some" that night.  Apparently, his wife was one
 of my fans and she had cut some interesting "bargains" with our man Hawk.  
 Who'da thunk it ???

 I'd watch the show, jot down a few notes, and then dress them up into a long
 but fun recap of the previous night's show.  I had a lot of fun doing that and
 you guys helped by showing your appreciation in return.  I used to see how
 many different ways I'd could come up with clever decriptions of some of the
 sexual interplay on the show ... tonsil tickles, lip lock boogie, sheet
 hockey, horizontal bop, and so on ...

 Even though the show itself has seen better days, I have enjoyed writing them
 up for you guys.  I read in the paper recently that they fired Conchata
 Farrell who played lasted year's co-MVP and runaway ROY winner Susan Bloom. 
 So, perhaps now it's fitting that I leave here while she leaves SoCal.

 And here's another little story for you ... I came on board here in Charlotte
 in late 1989-early 1990.  One of my first assignments was to fly to St Louis
 and do some work with a third-party software group who was doing some ALL-IN-1
 DESKtop stuff for us.   And Dan Medvid flew out to St Louis as well to help
 with some of the documentation and training stuff.  We really didn't know each
 other very well and it was hard to imagine much in common between us.

 We were there for three days or so and I guess about midway through the second
 day maybe, things sorta lulled a bit.  So I logged on to their system and
 dialed back into my account and hooked into SPORTS to catch up on things.  So,
 I was zipping through and reading and replying and just soaking it up when,
 all of a sudden, I started laughing out loud at one of the notes in here.  So,
 Dan comes on over and asks what's up ???   
 
 I asked him if he was a sports fan and then, rather than explaining the
 OURGNG::SPORTS forum to him, I just pointed to my screen where the latest
 rollward reply to the "Kissing In The NBA" topic was displayed.  Dan'l, to his
 everlasting credit, knew in an instant that he had found a new haven.  And we
 shared an instant bond.  One that we've both enjoyed and plan to maintain for
 a long while to come.   I guess in some ways it's fitting that we're bowing
 out in tandem.

 Well, that's about it ... I guess that just about does it.  I can't think of
 anything else that I might be remembered for here in SPORTS.  I'm sure I've
 left a few small minor things out but nothing really major.  I've met a lot of
 you and missed meeting several more.  I met MrT in Minny.  Hawk and Schneid in
 Haverhill.  Ninja at one of his DEC softball games.  JD at the Eagles-Jints
 game in 1987 and at DECUS.   Doug Ross at DECUS and at the Southern Rookie
 Review in 1990 in Rock Hill, SC.   And Chris Knorr here in Charlotte (will he
 ever forget "Pepper" ???) and again in Atlanta.

 Those two wild nights at The Other Place this past March were a real treat. 
 Frank Way, Yoseff Francus, Mike Leary, Walt Ashe, Tom Hill, Don Robichaud,
 Rich Jacob, Denny Rieu, Glenn Waugaman, Kevin Farley, Dick Hamel, Jeff Needle,
 Tom Chappel, Bob McCullough, Dan Medvid, ... Oh God who am I missing ???  And
 then the next night with JaKe, Dan and Cathy Finucane and Jo Barrows.   They
 were nights for the record books.   The Mothers Of All SPORTS Get-Togethers.

 That about does it.  Nothing else left to say.   I'll still be here for a week
 or two more ... packing up and signing the papers and saying the good-byes and
 chasing down some leads for work and much much more I'm sure.   We'll still
 have mail access for a while to come so I'll try and answer each one as I find
 the time and the words.  I have received a lot of very warm and touching mail
 messages and I thank you for them.  I'm glad I was able to brighten your days
 up a bit just as you did mine.  I am convinced there is life after Digital. 
 Wish me luck 'cause I'm on my way.

 Your friend,

 Bob Hunt

 P.S.  Oh, yeah, there was one other thing I almost forgot.  I might have
 casually mentioned Dean Smith just a few times.  Not much, maybe every so
 often.  You know, one of those "when the mood strikes" thangs. :-)
 

    Great note Bob... I also used to print out the LA Law note and let
    my wife read it... It was GREAT!... I am sad to read/hear about my
    net-friends leaving dec and wonder if I am going to be next...
    You did forget one of the better notes in an earlier sports-file..
    
    Steve-on-sports...
    
    REK
    
    I have been noting in sports since 1984 and even though I'm not one of
    bigger writers I still like reading in here and laughing at the fun and
    pun...

GREAT note, Bob.  Superb.


There just aren't any words....

'Saw

 5 minutes later and I still got goosepimples all over... ;^)

 Bob I'm going to miss ya bad. you always were my NOTY year in and year out..

 mike

 ps. I mailed the poster to ya....of Sir Mistake...

Damn, wished that I hadn't left early Friday - couldda read BobHunt's not live,
instead of in re-run Monday morning!  

What a way to start the week...

=Bob=

       Great note Bob! If you do become a sportswriter, please send your
    articles to one of us so we cain put 'em in here!
                                       Denny

    fwiw
    
    During the SERP period, in the ::SERP notesfile there was a lot of
    discussion about MCI and how it gives people access to easynet and
    hence, can send mail into DEC and vice versa.
    
    I think this costs ~$7-$8/month.  I copied the contact information
    and the "how-to" from there so if anybody would like this information
    let me know and I'll pass it on.
    
    standard disclaimer on no financial interest or otherwise.
    
    Kev
    

Dumb question:

	Is there access to the Internet from any services similar
	to Prodigy or Compuserve?


'Saw

 Yes, you can reach me (and others) via Internet on CompuServe.
 
 From an internal Digital system, my CompuServe mail address looks like
 this ...
 		DECWRL::"[email protected]"
 
 I promise I will answer all intelligent mail messages ... That obviously
 excludes the Jihad and the Carolina faithful.  :-)
 
 Bob Hunt

    
    
    	Geez, just got back from vacation and the crap is hitting the fan!
    
    Sorry to see both of you go.  I enjoyed reading replies from both of
    you over the years.  Bob brought back a lot of memories in his note..
    to think that I forgot about RUBY::SPORTS!  Geez, it has been a long
    time poping in and out of here.
    
    	I've never had the chance to meet either of you, but maybe sometime
    down the road, I can.  If either of you are in the Springfield Mass 
    area, please look me up.. maybe I can give you a guided tour of the
    Basketball Hall of Fame.
    
    	Take care both of you and know that this noter will miss both
    of you.
    
    	Good luck,  Bill Gusic
    

Geez sorry.  Just got back from PA. and wanted to get into SPORTS.

Instead, I got into ALAN::ALDA

Geez.   Reading this note is like taking saltpeter...

JD

Po' JD......


'Saw

> Yes, you can reach me (and others) via Internet on CompuServe.
> 
> From an internal Digital system, my CompuServe mail address looks like
> this ...
> 		DECWRL::"[email protected]"
> 
> I promise I will answer all intelligent mail messages ... That obviously
> excludes the Jihad and the Carolina faithful.  :-)
 
GREAT!

I wasn't sure if that was a possibility.  (Do you get charged for 
incoming mail?)


Ain't the Internet a *wonderful* thing.....


'Saw

    JD's still looking for Herb Welch...
    

    Re: trial reunion
    
    I'll bring the band!
    
    After reading the trial transcript, I hate to admit I actually miss
    MorT's baiting and Onan Dan's whining (especially at the Faker's
    expense).
    
    Mike

    Just finished reading the Trial transcript. Absolutely brilliant stuff,
    it read like a disjointed stream of consiousness novel but unlike
    Joyce's Ulysses it was a pleasure to read.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    TcM,
    
    I yam amayzed!!!!!  It only took you 6 days (including a weekend) to
    read a paltry 500 page book!
    
    Wassamatter, did the big words give you trouble?  Disappointed that
    there were no pictures?
    
    ;^)
    
    I don't recall the fray about the forgery, there were too many
    sub-plots going on and as a juror, even if I did, I couldn't tell ya!
    ;^)
    
    Q#2 - didja REALLY use a restricted notesfile?
    A#2 - YUP! shure did BUT the jury decided to create our own
    distribution list and E-mail the really juicy stuff and deliberations
    to each other just to make sure that if there was a nasty RON lurking
    around, he/she would only see what we intentionally planted there!
    We DID take our empowerment seriously (for a bunch of freekin'
    loonitics anyway).
    
    Unfortunately, I, for lack of disk space, deleted my personal file of
    the jury e-mail messages and I think the jury notesfile is gone.
    Any help from others?
    
    Kev
    

    Kev it actually took me about an afternoon, was away Friday
    afternoon-Tuesday morning, for the most part and did not print it out,
    kill too many trees that way.
    
    too bad about the jury stuff, would have loved to see the
    "deliberations".
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    TcM,
    sounds to me like a "sorryExcuse"!
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    
    btw - want that copy of Newsday with the title "SILENCE OF THE METS"
    dated 5/58 when they said they wouldn't talk to the press anymore?
    I have the complete issue!
    
    ( I bought it 'specially for you! and in either case you owe me $.35)
    ;^)
    
    hth,
    Kev
    

    Well at least I don't have to make sorryExcuses all the time :-)
    
    I was in NY during much of the "Silence of the Mets" bit, but I am
    truly grateful that you were thinking of me :-) In order not to spoil
    your joy I will allow you to take that 35 cent loss :-)
    
    The Crazy Met
    
    ps anyone have that jury stuff hanging around? Jim McFall??
    
    

>    
>    ps anyone have that jury stuff hanging around? Jim McFall??
>

I had the jury stuff for quite a while.  I cannot remember why I had it,
since I wasn't on the jury, but I do remember MikeJN copying me on
a TON of stuff from the jury.

Deleted it after a year or so when cleaning up my personal directory.



Does anyone have a pointer or a copy of MrT's WONDERFUL note about the
guy with the supporating sore?????


'Saw    
    

If you want to copy Kev's "trial file" and not tie up your terminal/ws window,
you can use FTSV, which is instaled on most internal VMS machines.  It works 
just like $COPY, except it does it in batch.  Just type $FTSV, and then issue a 
"COPY" command.

=Bob=

    Who was Judge Wapner?

    Snideair was da judge!

FTSV is a "spool" copy.  It just puts some commands around it for other options.

On some systems the command is spool, but the prompt will be ftsv.....


hth,
'Saw

    Thanks Denny.  I thought it was Schneider, but when that Chan person 
    popped up, I wasn't so sure.

Yeah, Dan was using her account as a smoke screen.

When some of us figured out it was Dan, Jim McFall took over as the 
REAL Judge....

No Faux Judges for OUR trial......


'Saw

    Yeah 'Saw it was a complete
    Faux trial the whole kit 'n caboodle.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

	Sorry, I don't have the jury's notesfile anymore. There was not
much in it, however, because as Kev said, most of the good stuff was in mail,
and I was not privy to it, until the final verdict (surprising, but inevitable)
was reached.

	JJ

 This is *not* a hoax.  We have been given a last-minute reprieve from the
 warden.  The layoff death squads were supposed to be here next Tuesday,
 8-Sep-1992.   We have been told as of today that they will _not_ be here
 nexted week.   That is all we are being told as of now.
 
 I've never seen such chaos and confusion inside Digital in the entire time
 I've been here.   At this point, most of us here are just sitting around
 waiting to be shot.  We've said our good-byes, we've smoked our last
 cigarettes and we've adjusted our blindfolds ... 
 
 The only thing missing is the firing squads.   Ya think maybe they're in
 New Orleans ???
 
 Bob Hunt

    <set mode sarcastic>
    
    Bob,
    
    I wouldn't be surpised to hear that the reason for the delay is so
    they can pay the higher plane fares since the supersaver's supposedly
    expire on Sept. 9!
    
    Sorta like being Alice in Wonderland, eh?
    
    Kev
    

    I wish they would just hurry up and get it over with.  A company I'm
    interested in working for asked me to pee in a bottle already so it's
    looking positive.  Now what if I can't accept an offer because I don't
    know when (not if) I'll be laid off.  Digital is beginning to screw me. 
    Never thought they would do that.
    
    And for those of you who don't think you're affected by this, guess
    again.  Of the 40-50 people in the Charlotte office, no one is working. 
    We're all looking for other employment or, as Bob said, sitting around
    waiting to be shot.  We hear it is costing one man-year salary a day to
    keep this office open.
    
    	--dan'l

    As the Great Bobby Knight once said, "...lay back and enjoy it."
    
    I feel for you guys.  I've been there and managed to escape.  Hopefully
    everything will work out for you.
    
    Mike

    Is this another college prank being perpetrated in memory of MrT?
    
�Now what if I can't accept an offer because I don't
�    know when (not if) I'll be laid off.  
    
    DEC cannot stop you from leaving.
    
�We hear it is costing one man-year salary a day to
�    keep this office open.
    
    What do you guys do down there anyway?  Turn gold into flax?

 No, it's not a prank.  We were supposed to be axed today.  Last Friday, we
 received a very terse mail message saying that the only thing definite
 they could tell us was that we would not be axed this week.     No reason
 why; no new date; no indication of when we would be told anything new. 
 Anyone who thinks this is just one helluva rockin' good time for us is
 missing some serious clues. 
 
 You're right, Mac, Digital can not stop you from leaving.  However, I defy
 you to just blithely walk away from a carrot-on-a-stick severance package
 that represents a deadly serious safety net for a lot of innocent people
 and their families.   It ain't easy.
 
 And no, we do not spin flax into gold.  I believe the estimate of one
 man-year per _day_ is in error.  It's more like one man-year per *week*. 
 We have about 50 of us here in OPA and that represents roughly 2,000
 man-hours per week ... which is roughly one man-year.   We have been idle
 for about 4 weeks now.  We've stopped work on all current projects and
 we've referred all new business to different cost centers.   I believe an
 estimate of 4 man-years wasted is fairly accurate.   That's not chump
 change in anyone's book.
 
 Wake up on the wrong side of the bed again, Mac ???
 
 Bob Hunt

>�Now what if I can't accept an offer because I don't
>�    know when (not if) I'll be laid off.  
>    
>    DEC cannot stop you from leaving.
    
    You miss my point...however selfish it is.  I've been told I'm being
    laid off and have been given information about a severance package. 
    I've gone out and it looks like I've found another job, except that
    Digital won't tell me exactly when I can start the other job because
    they won't tell me when they are planning to be through with me.  I
    want what was told would be mine and the other job.  
    
>�We hear it is costing one man-year salary a day to
>�    keep this office open.
>    
>    What do you guys do down there anyway?  Turn gold into flax?
    
    Actually, Bob and I figured out this week that it cost them one
    man-year a week to keep the office open.  Still, that's about 75K a
    week Digital is losing on us.
    
    	--dan'l

� Wake up on the wrong side of the bed again, Mac ???
    
    The "college prank" bit was a joke.
    
    As for my other comments I'm just tired of hearing/reading
    misinformation and rumors and don't like to see them propogated here.
    
    Not long ago we heard how DEC was just giving folks a "don't let the
    door hit you on the way out" send off, but now folks are worried about
    jumping ship without that nice friendly DEC going away gift.

    While it would be nice to get the package, if I could find another job
    outside DEC I'd be gone in a heartbeat - package or not.
    
    I feel trapped.  I'm unhappy in my present job and am not happy with
    where I'm living.  I need to make some changes in my life.  Job
    changing is difficult and the real estate market is slow (I own my
    home).  In other words, I know what I need to do but the things to get
    done are out of my control.  I also have the anxiety of having become
    obsolete with so much concentration on our operating systems over the
    past few years of my career.
    
    In other words, this isn't a particularly happy time right now.  I'd
    like to think no amount of money is worth this feeling, but there are
    practical realities too.
    
    Anybody got any advice?
    
    Ninj

    Play Rugby and LIVE!!!!!!
    
    Kev_for_Mac!
    
    ;^)
    
    

    Mac, the "don't let the door hit you attitude" is still here, we just
    don't know how fast the door is closing on us and exactly when to move
    our butts out of the way.  You haven't heard it from us because the
    initial shock of this insensitive attitude has now worn off and it's
    just not worth addressing.
    
    John and anyone else, tell me you wouldn't be upset if someone told you
    you were going to get about $10,000 and then said, "Well, maybe not." 
    What sounds better, a new job and 10K or just a new job?  Of course
    we're bitching...who wouldn't?
    
    	--dan'l

       Any chance at a full time NFL job John? something like a consultant.
    OR do they already have something like that for stat crews?
                                    Denny

    Dan'l, I wasn't trying to criticize you for feeling what you're feeling
    and I apologize if it came across that way.  The $10000 would be hard
    to walk away from.  It just seemed like a good place to put my feelings
    at this point.  I'm pretty low right now.
    
    Denny, I'm already sort of known as a consultant for the stat crews. 
    I'm on that user committee for the stat system, wrote a supplemental
    manual and have taken a couple of calls.  There's not enough work to
    make it full time.  Working for an NFL team full-time would mean an
    almost-certain relocation and I don't want to move further away.
    
    My real problem is this.  I'm stuck in a job with little to no chance
    for advancement, little to no chance to do anything else and it's going
    to be tougher and tougher to do the job due to budget and headcount
    cutbacks.  In addition, I'm lonesome.  I've lived apart from my family
    for a long time and while I was dating someone I could handle it.  Now
    where I'm not seeing anybody and with no chance for change on the
    horizon, I can't handle it anymore.  Compounding the situation are the
    things that happened this past summer - my niece and nephew being born
    and my mom getting sick.                        
    
    I'm also finding living alone when I have a bad day at work I don't
    have anyone to talk to when I get home.  It was especially tough during
    layoff week, where I was so heavily involved, but there have been a lot
    more bad days than good days lately.
    
    Despite the fact that my folks are only 50 miles away, I feel a very
    strong pull to be closer.  There are lots of spur-of-the-moment type
    things that everyone else does and I don't always get asked to them
    due to the time and distance for me to get there.  I feel like I miss
    out on a lot.
    
    My salvation has always been to get involved in outside activities but
    even those are few and far between where I am.  In retrospect, when I
    bought this house in 1986, I moved in the wrong direction - I should
    have moved closer to the folks then instead of waiting until now.  Now
    I feel trapped and I hope I can feel untrapped soon.
    
    John

 >>   The "college prank" bit was a joke.
 
 Whoops, silly me.  I should have known in an instant that any and all
 notes written by Keith MacNeal containing anything with even the slightest
 hint of an antagonizing remark was in actuality a rip-roaring and
 side-splitting, totally freakin' rollward attempt at gosh-honest humor.
 
 Next time, Mac, try some of these ... :-) :-) :-) :-) ... It'll help mere
 mortals like me from making that same hideous mistake again.
 
 By the way, the above literary technique is known as "sarcasm".
    
 >>   As for my other comments I'm just tired of hearing/reading
 >>   misinformation and rumors and don't like to see them propogated here.
 
 Yeah, I agree.  The only thing worse than hearing or reading about
 misinformation and rumors, Keith, is actually *LIVING* with the
 painful, confusing, and stressful consequences of them.  I'm sorry you're
 tired of hearing about them.  Try hitting {Next Unseen} next time.
    
 >>   Not long ago we heard how DEC was just giving folks a "don't let the
 >>   door hit you on the way out" send off, but now folks are worried about
 >>   jumping ship without that nice friendly DEC going away gift.
 
 Jumping ship ???   More like pushed off, shoved aside, cleared away, AMF. 
 Since when is someone facing a layoff "jumping ship" ???   And forgive us
 if the pilots of this sinking ship offer us a *LIFE* raft and then yo-yo
 the bloody thing right in front of our faces for weeks on end.  Maybe
 that's their twisted idea of humor, too.
 
 Bob Hunt

    
 >>Jumping ship ???   More like pushed off, shoved aside, cleared away, AMF. 
                                                                        ^^^
                                                                        |||
    
    What does this stand for, Bob???
    
    (8^)*
    
    Inwuiring minds and all the SLOF
    
    JaKe
    

    Gee.... I think the A is for Adios....
    
    Dennis Faust
    

    Thanks Dennis, I had the back 2 nailed but #1 was a puzzler.
    
    'preciate it.
    
    About 2 years ago a pal o' mine said " We're being managed into
    bankruptcy" and I thought he was nuts.
    
    Now I'm not so sure....
    
    I remain,
    _NOT_a banker either!
    
    Kev
    

    Yo Bob Hunt,
    
    	It's not nice to use "AMF" in this heah notes conference.  I 
    	know.  I was the first one to get his hand slapped for it! :*)
    
    	BTW, good luck to you and dan'l.  I'll miss you're notes.....
    
    Claybone

    Bob, I think you've misunderstood me and are lumping a couple of things
    I said into the same idea.
    
    My point about the complaints that DEC is just saying "don't let the
    door hit you on the way out" ring a bit hollow in my ears when I see
    the severance package and the job placement assistance being offered to
    those being layed off.  Now if DEC was saying "Here's the door, you can
    pick up your next check at the unemployment office over there", I'd
    agree with the complaints.
    
    As for your situation, I agree, it's lousy to be offered something and
    have it pulled back.  It's even worse that you're being put into limbo.
    
    I can't say I've been in your shoes, but I have been close.  My
    assignment at MCC ended around the time of the first and second
    "transitions".  When I went to Austin I was told I'd have a job when
    the assignment was up.  When the assignment was up, very few groups
    were hiring and the group with the best fit (or so I thought at the
    time) had been hit hard by transition.  Couple that with the fact that
    DEC was becoming less interested in MCC, and there didn't appear to be
    any transition package for someone in my situation, and it was a bit
    scary to say the least.  I did have a guarantee that I'd get an office
    and a phone in the Mill from which to find another job if I couldn't
    find anything immediately.

 >>   My point about the complaints that DEC is just saying "don't let the
 >>   door hit you on the way out" ring a bit hollow in my ears when I see
 >>   the severance package and the job placement assistance being offered to
 >>   those being layed off.  Now if DEC was saying "Here's the door, you can
 >>   pick up your next check at the unemployment office over there", I'd
 >>   agree with the complaints.
 
 Ah-ha, now I'm one of "those being layed off".   Before I was "jumping
 ship".   Nice spin control, Keith.  If you don't want to be misunderstood,
 then say *exactly* what you mean the first time and every time and it
 won't happen.
 
 For the record, I'm not the least bit bitter about the severance package. 
 I've got nine years with Digital and it will provide a solid safety net
 for me and my family and it will enable me the freedom to choose the next
 best career option that comes along.   I am grateful for that.   Never
 said I wasn't.
 
 What I strongly protest against is this yo-yo nonsense we're going
 through.  They've postponed our execution twice now and the rumors and
 confusion and stress are really nasty.   They should either let us go or
 keep us.  One or the other.   Right now, we've been standing on the
 gallows with the nooses around our necks for far too long.   People have
 lives they want to get on with.
 
 I'm sorry if all this is painful medicine for all the new Palmer Acolytes
 to swallow.  Personally, I find it incomprehensible that the skill sets on
 hand in this group are being tossed away so casually when we seem to be so
 compatible with our new chairman's early visions.  Somebody ain't passing
 down the new bossman's orders.
    
 >>   As for your situation, I agree, it's lousy to be offered something and
 >>   have it pulled back.  It's even worse that you're being put into limbo.
 
 More spin.  Before you said that Digital could do nothing to stop us "ship
 jumpers" from leaving ... Now you're sympathetic to our limbo.   Forgive
 me if I "misunderstood" you again.   Maybe I need a decoder ring.
 
 Bob Hunt  

    Bob, please don't take you frustration out on me.  I don't think I've
    done anything to warrant it.
    
� Ah-ha, now I'm one of "those being layed off".   Before I was "jumping
� ship".   Nice spin control, Keith.  
    
    You wanna show me where I said that?  My "jumping ship" comment was in
    reference to dan'l's comment about having another job lined up (and yes
    I know he was told to find another one).
    
� For the record, I'm not the least bit bitter about the severance package. 
    
    Did I say *you* did?  No, I didn't.  In fact, I don't recall saying
    anyone was bitter over it.  
    
� More spin.  Before you said that Digital could do nothing to stop us "ship
� jumpers" from leaving ... Now you're sympathetic to our limbo.   
    
    Again, that was a comment addressed to dan'l's first complaint that he
    couldn't leave for another job (I didn't realize he meant that he might
    not be able to leave *and* take a nest egg with him).  I might not have
    participated in the gushfest, but I've never been unsympathetic to your
    limbo and I'm pretty sure I've even expressed sympathies to you over
    the entire situation via MAIL.
    
�Forgive
� me if I "misunderstood" you again.   Maybe I need a decoder ring.
    
    Maybe you need to step back and think about what I wrote rather than
    letting your emotions shoot from the hip.

Lads, lads.....

Let's ALL step back here, and take a look at what we're doing.


Last time *I* checked, we were all playing for the same team.  I mean,
my uniform has blue and white hoops on the jersey, with a little Digital
logo on the left chest, and I think everyone else's do too....


Everybody is just a bit more testy these days, what with all the wonderful
new "opportunities" (read that BOHICs) coming our way....


Take a blow guys, grab some water, and let's see if we can't get back 
into the game........


'Saw

    
    
    I'm jumping ship?
    
    Thanks, Mac, you know how to make a guy feel really good.
    
    
    

    I give up.  You guys are right.  I really am a cold hearted SOB.

>    I give up.  You guys are right.  I really am a cold hearted SOB.

Careful Mac, everyone'll start calling you The Turk.....


'Saw

    There's been some real bad stuff going around as of late. 
    15 packages last friday. I know them all and don't like
    seeing it happen to most of them. We could second guess 
    them from now till hell freezes over and it won't matter
    at this point. Analysts and therapists are developing
    theories on us already. We're called 'survivors'. 
    Beleive me, I've been a 'survivor' before and this 
    isn't what it feels like. What I'm saying is I don't
    have a survivors attitude but I have changed over the
    past several weeks.  If there's any truth to the saying
    'No pain. No gain.' then we all probably gained a great deal.
    
    BoB 

    Reading all these replies has been painful. I can empathize with Bob
    and Dan'l totally. The uncertainty that is being perpetuated by
    decision-makers "somewhere" is stressful to the nth degree and
    certainly counter-productive.
    
    And, John, your notes are jumping out at us and telling us that you are
    in trouble. You are clearly unhappy with your job and your job
    location.
    
    People are tense. Folks are biting back instead of responding in a
    joking way. But, sadly, this is the environment that has been created
    during the past 12 months. The uncertainty, the rumors, the erosion of
    the culture we once knew.
    
    I have just been told I am at risk. My 20 year anniversay will be in
    November. I have moved my family from Massachusetts to Vermont back to
    Massachusetts and now to Virginia. Both moves out of Massachusetts were
    not initiated by me. I was solicited.
    
    So, I have been living in a funk for the past 12 months...dreading each
    pass of the layoff. This has caused stress in my marriage and in my
    relations with fellow employees. I made a decision last January to
    give the company everything I had by agreeing to a 3 month residency
    600 miles away. Got a super review from the DEC program manager...came
    home to lousy reviews as a husband and father.
    
    Within a few weeks of returing from the residency, I once again started
    hearing about pending layoffs...I better watch out. The stress starts
    again. You curtail your living habits...stop thinking about buying a
    car or buying a prized set of baseball cards or putting an addition on
    your home. 
    
    Each day at work you talk to fellow employees about rumors. You pore
    through the DIGITAL notesfile looking for concrete information. You get
    farewell messages from folks you worked with in the past telling you
    how they think they have been hosed. 
    
    Then they look for more money for medical insurance and noe disability
    insurance. Finally the car plan.
    
    ***This is not intended to start a discussion about the validity of the
    company car. Just my personal situation***
    
    I don't meet the minimum criteria to keep one so, even if I can hang on
    with DEC, they will take the car away. This was sold to me - my first
    day in the field - as a benefit NOT a tool. So, I sold my other car.
    The lack of a company car represents an added car payment, insurance
    and taxes. 
    
    All these things are weighing on me. I see friends like George Brooks
    and Hawk being let go. I hear the plight of Bob and Dan'l. And I hear
    John H's lamented cries.
    
    I can just think that this is what folks at Wang went through. The
    pain, anguish and stress. How is this being managed? How can we account
    for the lost time each and every employee is spending in discussions or
    thoughts about layoffs? How many of us can honestly say that it is fun
    to come to work today? 
    
    Bob brought out some points about a bitterness created by the current
    environment in DEC. And, there is such a true ring to his thoughts and
    words. How can a person who has been put through so much stress ever
    want to put out so much for a company in the future? 
    
    I honestly don't know what I will do if I get "wacked" - (Managements
    cute word for downsized employees). I know I'll have a reasonable
    amount of cash from TFSO (if I get axed soon...rumor is that, within a
    few months, time in company will mean nothing) to hold me over for
    awhile.
    
    But, I'll end up selling my house. Probably have to move my kids, for
    the fourth time, to another school. I'll have to buy another car. Given
    that I've been with DEC so long, it will be very hard to get a job that
    pays what I get now. I don't know what kind of medical and dental
    coverage I'll get. I'm stressed out.
    
    I also realize that DEC had to do something. And downsizing is painful.
    But the lives that are being damaged and, in some cases, ruined, need
    to be considered more. So many of us have given so much to DEC in the
    past and, yes, DEC has rewarded us handsomely. But, we are not whores.
    We are people with families and feelings. There needs to be something
    more to a job than a weekly paycheck. And, we always had that.
    
    I am being made to feel like I am an enemy of DEC. That my existance
    hurts their P/L. And so are many other folks in this office. 
    
    I sincerely wish Bob and Dan'l the very best. Should they end up
    staying with DEC, I hope they work on meaningful projects that provide
    self-fulfillment. Should they leave DEC, I wish for success beyond what
    they achieved at DEC.
    
    I want DEC to succeed. For 20 years DEC has been half of my life. I've
    spent more time within DEC walls than with my kids. So I retain a
    degree of loyalty for the company. But I don't know how much longer I
    can go on with the uncertainty and stress that greets me daily at work.
    
    Rich
     

>    I honestly don't know what I will do if I get "wacked" - (Managements
>    cute word for downsized employees). I know I'll have a reasonable


Funny, but this is the same word they used in "Goodfellas" when someone
got hit....


'Saw
     

    Well, nobody axed, but here's what I'm doing to avoid having my 
    livelihood determined by a bunch of fat-assed corporate bureaucrats.
    It may work for you, also, but it takes alot of self-discipline, and
    some luck.
    
    After I got married 5 years ago, I made a decision that my first real
    estate purchase wouldn't be a house, but a piece of rental property.
    I saved $20K or so and bought a 4 unit apartment bldg.  I then bought
    a house a year later, and another rental house a couple of years after
    that.  No, I don't make a big salary, and neither does my wife.  We
    also don't live in a mobile home with cantaloupe crates for furniture.
    Our house was bought new.  I have a ski boat and two almost-new cars.
    All it takes is some self-discipline and not doing recreational
    shopping.  We also delayed having kids until we felt we were in a very
    good financial position.
    
    Now, if DEC give me the boot, I have well over $100K of real estate 
    equity (not counting my house) to use for buying my own business, or 
    whatever.  I'm actively looking for a business to buy, but the good
    ones are few and expensive.  
    
    Of course, I'm now at the mercy of the real estate market instead of
    Digital, and my strategy would have been a disaster if I'd done it in
    NH or Mass in the early '80s.  But, the basic premise of building a
    sizeable investment before you start living hand-to-mouth is something
    I think everyone should do.  I'm lucky in a couple of respects.  My
    wife isn't the type to spend money as fast as she can, and the real
    estate market in Seattle has held up pretty well.  I also have a
    background and education that gave me the basic skills I need to run
    my own business. 
    
    My motivation to have my own business is due to my frustration in
    getting a monetary reward here.  I've been here 4 years, gotten two
    promotions, good reviews, and an average of a 6%/year raise.  Wheehaaw!
    I'm still at the bottom of my salary range.  And, being in Finance, I
    ocassionally find out what people make.  Don't kid yourselves.  Some of
    your co-workers are raking in big-time money for doing the same job
    you are, just because they have been with the company a long time.
    It would be nice to actually get a financial reward for a job well-done
    for once.  
    
    Your financial advisor,
    Pete

    Pete - Glad you seem to have things in hand, so to speak.
    
    However, you have to understands that each and every one of us has a
    unique financial situation. We all have our own priorities.
    
    Having joined DEC in 1972, I was told from the get go that, although
    DEC didn't pay as well as some of our competitors, the company was more
    or less committed to no-layoffs. I recall actually partaking in the
    famous parking lot sweeps of 1973/74 just to keep people busy. 
    
    I turned down a couple opportunities opting instead for the security of
    DEC. Having just gotten married, this was important to me.
    
    Then the little ones start to come. My wife and I decided to stash some
    away for their college. And for our retirement. Not a lot but something
    to augment another one of DEC's perks - company pension plan, and
    Social Security.
    
    Now, at age 44, I may end up using up the retirement money we've saved,
    dip into the kids college fund just to get by. After all these years in
    the company, I have achieved a level of salary that I can't get on the
    outside. So, chances are, I'd be taking at least a 20% pay cut at
    another job. 
    
    Sure, TFSO will help for awhile but once everyday life kicks into gear,
    I'm operating at a large financial deficit.
    
    Today, I'm not so naive. I know that no job is for life anymore. No
    matter how much you sacrifice. So, I won't make the same mistakes I
    made in the past in trusting DEC.
    
    But, on the other hand, perhaps I will be able to keep my job at DEC.
    The problem is, the situation is constantly changing and you don't know
    what to do. I've had feelers out and have listened to some offers that
    are substantially less than what I now make.
    
    Pete, you can make a case for a lack of vision on my part. And, I
    grudgingly agree. However, my situation is tempered by a culture that
    used to exist in DEC and a mindset that siad, "If you work well, we
    will give you employment". 
    
    I am so sick of this situation................
    
    Rich
    

I think it's sad that loyalty, and hard work gets rewarded with
a kick in the teeth.

People do not value the quality of work any more, and unfortunately
it shows in a lot of American products.  And in the way workers get
treated....


Man, I wish I could write some words that would make everyone feel 
better.....

8^(

'Saw

 The following article appeared in the Business section of today's
 "Charlotte Observer" ...
 
                                  * * *
 
    The Charlotte Observer
    Thursday, September 10, 1992
    
    by staff writer Jennifer French Parker
    
    
    Struggling Digital Equipment plans to lay off 53 more Carolinas workers
    
    
    Digital Equipment Co. will lay off 53 Carolinas workers, 35 of them in
    Charlotte, within the next month.
    
    Nikki Richardson, the company's information manager, said the workers'
    jobs are being eliminated as part of an ongoing corporate downsizing.
    
    "We are consolidating and eliminating redundancies," Richardson said
    Wednesday. Technological changes and weak demand for computers are
    behind many of the changes, she said.
    
    In Charlotte, the company is closing its Enterprise Integration Center,
    which creates software to customers' specifications.
    
    The center's workers, mostly computer programmers, were told last month
    to start looking for work. Richardson said their work will be done in
    other parts of the company's Charlotte operation.
    
    The remaining 18 workers to be laid off will come from the company's 11
    other Carolinas sites, she said.
    
    The latest reduction will leave Digital with 175 Charlotte workers,
    down from 210. Three years ago, the company had 244 workers in
    Charlotte. Since September 1989, it has eliminated 23,000 jobs
    worldwide, leaving it 137,000 workers in 97 countries.
    
    Just last month, the company sold its 475-employee plant in Greenville,
    S.C., to a joint-venture of AMP Inc. of Harrisburg, Pa., and AKZO Co.
    of Hauppauge, N.Y. Richardson said those employees are still employed
    at the plant, which makes printed wiring boards.
    
    The sale and the layoffs have reduced the company's Carolinas work
    force by half. It began the year with 986 Carolinas workers.
    
    In New York Stock Exchange trading Wednesday, Digital closed at $37.75
    a share, up $2.125.
              
                                  * * *
 
 Granted that most of this stuff is corporate PR boilerplate fluff but Ms.
 Richardson's (whomever she is and wherever she comes from) facts and
 numbers seem to be inaccurate virtually across the board.   We are not
 losing _35_ people in this facility; more like 50 plus.   And almost none
 of our work will be assumed by "other parts of the company's Charlotte
 operation".   A lot of our work is just being dumped in the bit bucket and
 quite a bit more is going overseas to places like Reading, England and
 Turin, Italy.
 
 And I have no idea where she got the 137,000 total employees number given
 then we have already or will lay off 23,000.   Even with all the
 acquisitions and hiring we've been doing overseas, I'm not sure we ever
 had 160,000 people on the books at any time in the recent past.
 
 And of course the standard knee-jerk response about "consolidating and
 eliminating redundancies" is especially irritating since there's little
 redundancy here at all.   Lasted time I checked, demand for custom
 software solutions was growing ... especially in the office and PC
 sectors.
 
 One thing is for sure ... The Charlotte Observer knows we're getting layed
 off.  We, of course, aren't being told anything.   Maybe I should call the
 reporter and ask her to get Nikki back on the phone so she can tell us
 when we're actually going to go.
 
 This is one nutty company.
 
 Bob Hunt

Well I work over in the "other parts of the company's Charlotte
operation" and Bob is right about the EIC work *NOT* being shifted to
here.

Some work is being shifted due to the cuts in the Carolinas. But a lot of
it is simple no longer being done. This is the third round of wackings
(love that expression!) for this office, CEO. In the previous 2, when
someone left, their work fell on the rest of our shoulders. In most cases
they asked us to pick up the customers and the technology, so a lot of us
became instant "imaging experts", "PC experts", or "whatever experts".

As Sales Support is being trimmed, the Sales Reps are being told to use
regional centers of expertise which, of course, runs up the costs of
doing business just in the travel costs alone and usually anybody any
good is already booked solid.

I did my bit for local headcount by taking a new job that doesn't belong
to the Carolinas. I work in network services for a group out of Atlanta,
although I'm still at CEO. That means one less Sales Support to wack.

TTom

� As Sales Support is being trimmed, the Sales Reps are being told to use
� regional centers of expertise which, of course, runs up the costs of ...
 
 Guess what we were ???   You got it, a "regional center of expertise." 
 We've done lots of collaborative efforts with CEO.   Not no mo'.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Struggling Digital Equipment plans to lay off 53 more Carolinas workers
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Great...just great. Now the media is portraying us a struggling. Puts
    us in the same boat with Chrysler, DG and other companies who are
    either just treading water or going down for the 3rd time. 
    
    I think the indecision has affected the workforce badly and if a
    media/financial/investment type talks to an employee, this feeling is
    manifested in a company struggling to stay alive.
    
    Perhaps we are. Perhaps DEC is on the edge. But, a decisive management
    could take the bull by the horns, make the hard cuts and get on with
    business. 
    
    We are totally preoccupied now with cutting people from the workforce.
    This is the message we send to Wall St, to customers, to the media.
    Rather than focusing on what we will do to be profitable, we focus on
    layoffs.
    
    Sure, layoffs are a part of the pie. But, stop and think about how much
    productivity is lost because of layoffs. Mini-bureaucracies have been
    built to administer them. Supervisors and managers are in a constant
    state of ranking and rating employees. Employees are into notefiles and
    sending mail to "track down the latest rumor".
    
    Our productivity is down by as much as 10%, I'd guess (4 hours out of a
    40 hour week spent on layoff talk), and we need to send a message to
    our customers that we are in it for the long haul. We aren't doing it
    as well as we should, in my opinion. Witness the     "Struggling Digital 
    Equipment plans to lay off 53 more Carolinas workers" headline in tha
    Charlotte paper. 
    
    And don't think that just because the Observer is a paper from a small
    market like Charlotte makes things better. The Observer was the major
    source of information during the Jim Baaker fiasco and every paper in
    NY, Philly, LA and Chicago had daily quotes attributed to the Observer.
    
    So, this headline is now dangling out there and other business page
    editors will see it. It will plant a seed.
    
    Great, Just Great!
    
    Rich
    
    

       Nikki Richarson is in Corp. PR. She's quoted quite often on DEC
    matters. She's always referred to as a "DEC Spokesperson."
    
                                       Denny

    Everybody take the weekend off. Forget about this place
    and go fishing. The situation will not be improved by
    monday but I can assure you that at least for a little bit
    you'll feel much better. 
    
    BoB

      Rumor has it the re-ranking is going to happen here within the next
    couple of weeks.  As long as it's handled better than the last time. 
    
    The west parking lot of CXO will be virtually empty come 1/1/93....
    
      Our business's will be shipped to the valley and Springfield by then.
    
    	Tj 

Latest Course Offerings for Couples ;^)


SEMINARS FOR MEN:

1.  Combatting Stupidity
2.  You Can Do Housework Too
3.  PMS - Learning When to Keep Your Mouth Shut
4.  How to Fill an Ice Tray
5.  We do not Want Sleazy Underthings for Christmas.  GIVE US MONEY.
6.  Understanding the Female Response to your Coming in Drunk at 3am
7.  Wonderful Laundry Techniques (formerly called "Don't Wash my Silks")
8.  Parenting - No, it Doesn't End with Conception.
9.  How not to Act like an Ass, When you are Obviously Wrong
10.  Get a Life - Learn to Cook.
11.  Spelling - Even you can get it right
12.  You - The Weaker Sex
13.  Reasons to give Flowers
14.  How to stay awake after sex
15.  Why it is Unacceptable to relieve yourself anywhere but the Washroom
16.  Garbage - Getting it to the Curb.
17.  #101 - You Can Fall Asleep With Out It - If You Really Try
     #102 - The Morning Dilemma - If It's Awake, Take a Shower
18.  I'll Wear it if I Damn Well Please
19.  How to put the toilet lid down (formerly called "No, It's Not A Bidet")
20.  Give me a Break - Why we know your excuses are B.S.
21.  The Weekend and Sports are not Synonymous
22.  How to Go Shopping with your Mate without Getting Lost
23.  The Remote Control - Overcoming your Dependency
24.  Romanticism - Other Ideas Besides Sex
25.  Helpful Posture Hints for Couch Potatoes
26.  Changing your Underwear - It Really Works
27.  How Not To Act Younger Than Your Children
28.  You Too Can Be a Designated Driver
29.  Male Bonding - Leaving your Friends at Home
30.  Fluffing the Blankets after Releasing Gas is NOT Necessary
31.  The Attainable Goal - Omitting ]@#$&$ From Your Vocabulary
32.  Honest, You Don't Look Like Mel Gibson - Especially When Naked



SEMINARS FOR WOMEN 

1.  Combatting the Impulse to Nag
2.  You Can Change the Oil Too
3.  PMS - Learning to Sleep Over at Mother's
4.  How to Fill a Beer Mug
5.  We do not want Stationary for Christmas - PUT ON SLEAZY UNDERTHINGS
6.  Understanding the Female Cause of Male Drunkenness
7.  How to Do All Your Laundry in One Load and Have More Time to Watch Football
8.  Parenting - Your Husband Gave You Children so You Could Have Someone
    Other Than Him to Boss Around
9.  How Not to Sob Like a Sponge When Your Husband is Right
10. Get a Life - Learn to Kill Spiders Yourself
11. Balancing a Checkbook - Even You Can Get it Right
12. You, the Whining Sex
13. Reasons to Give _ _ _ _  _ _ _ S
14. How to Stay Awake During Sex
15. Why it is Unacceptable to Talk About Placentas During Breakfast
16. Shopping - Doing it in Less Than 16 Hours
17. #101 You Can Use a Bed for More Than Just Sleep
    #102 It's OK to Do It Outside of the Bedroom
18. If You Want to Know How That Looks On You, Ask Your Mother
19. How to Close the Garage Door
20. If You Don't Want an Excuse, Don't Demand an Explanation
21. Payday and Shopping Are Not Synonymous
22. How to Go Fishing With Your Mate and Not Catch Pneumonia
23. Living Without Power Windows - How to Turn a Crank 
24. Romanticism - The Whole Point of Caviar, Candles, and Conversation
25. How to Stay Alive While Your Husband is Relaxing
26. Putting On Something Sexy - Why it Won't Ruin Your Brain
27. How to Act Younger Than Your Mother
28. You Too Can Carry a Backpack
29. Female Friendship - Why Your Best Friends Are Not the Women Who
    Complain About You the Most
30. Apologizing for Farting When You're On the Toilet is NOT Necessary
31. The Attainable Goal - Catching a Ball Before It Stops Moving
32. Honest, My Eyes Are Closed Because of the Passion I Feel

 I just got off the phone with Nikki Richardson.  She acknowledged that
 most of the numbers in the article were misquoted and wrong.  137,000
 employees is the high-water mark and we're now down to about 113,500.
 
 She also said that she wasn't going to push the reported for a corrected
 story since that would mean a second story with gloomy news and perhaps
 one of the national wire services would pick it up then.   Obviously, her
 job is to control the spin as best she can ... I don't envy her job at
 all.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Rich, I do understand that everyone's situation is unique.  I was
    hesitant to enter my note for that reason, but I thought I could 
    make people think about a few things.  I may have a stronger need
    for independence than most people.  
    
    I guess my point was to make people, especially those in their 20's,
    to think about their options and realize that there aren't many
    companies left that offer you lifetime employment.  Relying on any
    company is running a risk.  I'm trying to minimize mine.  You don't
    have to have a high income in order to build some assets over time.
    It's not for everyone and I certainly am not trying to "convert"
    anyone.  I see some of my buddies driving around in BMW 525s and
    300ZX's and wonder if I'm doing the right thing sometimes.
    
    Of course, the best thing to do is to marry a smart woman with good
    earning potential, like I did 8^).
    
    Pete

I'm gonna tell Terry you said that....

Personally I think the best thing you can do for yourself is try and keep 
your skills current. You always have to be thinking about looking for a new
job. Peruse the want ads weekly just to see what is out there. Go on occasional
interviews, keep your resume current. Most of the software guys won't have a
real tough time finding a job if you stay on the cutting edge...right now this
means learning C++, MS Windows and distributed system technology.

You also have to be willing to relocate to where the jobs are.

I feel sorry for any middle management types trying to find jobs right now.
People love to blame middle management for many of the problems in this 
company (rightly so for many of them) and most of them end up on their feet
because of the old boy network (usually the bad ones) but the good managers
who don't play the game will have a tough time finding jobs in the current 
work environment...

Metz

  Obviously, her job is to control the spin as best she can ... I don't envy her job at
 all.
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Personally I think she should be axed along with all the public relations mgrs. 
Jack Kellog is CX*'s and the guy is a total dweeb. He beleives that VMS lost
to UNIX. 


I think every VP should be responsible to control the spin not some well spoken
and versed corpoate puppet, after all if I was paid the VP type salary range
I'd expect to be intellegent enough to talk about the state of the company. 

Jeff

    re Metz
    
    Good points. 
    
    I concur about the dilemma many management types face. I also am
    outraged when I see so many manager types appearing magically in other
    areas of our company in new jobs while their old departments melt away.
    
    Another thing to mull over...as if things aren't gloomy enough. The job
    market is flooded with highly qualified people now. Good software
    people. Good engineers. Good managers. Good accountants. Most major
    corporations are either going through restructuring or putting a cap on
    hiring. 
    
    I'm not too sure about the situation out on the West Coast but the East
    Coast is in bad shape. New England? Close to 10% unemployment. New
    York? The heart and soul of the NYC economy is finance and Wall Street
    has scaled back in a major way. Middle Atlantic? Well, it seems that
    the US Government now employs more folks than all of US Manufacturing.
    That means more people work for Uncle Sam than GM, Ford, IBM, Nabisco,
    etc combined. So, government jobs are propping up the MD, DC and
    Northern VA economy. Southeast? Treading water, for the most part but
    showing some strain.
    
    What this means is that the chances are excellent that if you apply for
    a job, there will be 4 or 5 others of equal skill applying for the same
    job. You may luck out. You may find that job that just seemed to be
    created for you. But I have been seeing too many cases of well
    qualified individuals accepting jobs at wages substantially less than
    what they were making at DEC. There are also more and more highly
    skilled people stocking shelves at the local Winn Dixie just to keep
    money coming in to a family budget. Then there are those who hold out
    for the same bennies and wages they got at DEC. And these folks have
    been waiting a long time.
    
    I am scared to death. I'm in software now but my real experience is in
    manufacturing. I can do some VMS system thangs, some Pathworks stuff
    and a little ULTRIX. But I can do mfg engineering tasks to beat the
    band. Tell me, though, where are there opportunities in mfg?
    
    Well, sorry for getting so long winded. I seldom get so emotional about
    anything work related but when you tuck your kids in for bed each
    night, peck them on the cheek, blow them a kiss as you walk out of
    their room and then stop dead in your tracks and close your eyes and
    wonder if you will be able to provide for them as you have been - well
    it shakes you up.
    
    Rich
    
    

    I'm lucky.  I only have to provide for myself.  I could pay off my car
    now if I wanted to and my only major expense is my house, and I'm
    attempting to sell that.  Also, I find my job isn't in any real danger
    but the cloud hangs over me all the time.
    
    My real handicap in job hunting is that I don't interview well.  I
    dress well for interviews and make a good first impression but when I'm
    meeting someone for the first time, I'm quiet and reserved.  I don't
    come across like the "hail fellow well met" that politicians, for
    example, do.  I have an air of sincerity and honesty but interviewers
    want a sense of enthusiasm and energy.  While I have it, I don't show
    it.  That's where I think I lose out.
    
    From being on the other side of the interviewing table, I remember what
    handicaps me when I'm out there and I bend over backwards to make sure
    the folks who are like me get a fair shake in the process.  
    
    John

>    From being on the other side of the interviewing table, I remember what
>    handicaps me when I'm out there and I bend over backwards to make sure
>    the folks who are like me get a fair shake in the process.  
    
John, you have highlighted the tip of what I see as a big iceberg in
the American workplace.

In the American workplace, people tend to be evaluated against a certain
norm, whether it be for a job interview, or a performance evaluation.
The biggest assumption made is that all workers or potential workers
are the same.   

That is the most incorrect assumption going.


In education over the past 10-15 years, they have realized that children
are different, and are motivated differently.  All children are capable
of accomplishing pretty much the same things, but their paths are different.

Some are like robots, who just get it done.  Others are motivated by 
various means, different from "The Norm".

Teachers are learning to find out what motivates kids to learn and accomplish,
and tailor the learning process to the individual.

Unfortunately the American workplace has not caught up.


In my situation, I've always excelled when put in positions over my head,
and have been told, you don't have what it takes.   Put me in that position
and I go to town.  Maybe it's fear of failure, maybe it's a stubborn 
streak, I don't know.

Unfortunately, for me, that is the opposite of the way most companies 
evaluate your performance and promotion.   

It isn't a big problem for me.  As a southpaw, I've learned to live in
a right-handed world, but it is a pain.


Someday, the American Manager is gonna get a smart as an American Teacher,
and when that happens, watch things take off.


And remember what they say:

	Those who can do, do,
	Those who can't, manage   [many 8^)]


'Saw

    Frank, I understand exactly what you are saying.  People have to work
    according to their personalities.
    
    I've been around an awful lot of football coaches in my life, for
    example, and have noticed two general types - the professorial type,
    who's a real student of the game (like, for example, Rod Rust) and the
    Marine type, who can get his guys to run through brick walls (like, for
    example, Vince Lombardi).
    
    Now, the professorial type has to be able to motivate his players and
    the Marine type has to be able to do the Xs and Os.  The real trick is
    doing what you in a way that's consistent with your personality.
    
    I'm like Rod Rust.  I can't motivate people by yelling, screaming and
    losing my temper because that's not me.  It wouldn't be genuine and
    people would see through it very quickly.  I also can't come across as
    gushing with enthusiasm because that's not me either.  Conversely, the
    Lombardi-type couldn't motivate his troops by acting like me because
    that's not his personality either.
    
    Where it hurts me is that people see me across the table and just
    because I'm quiet and not bouncing up and down in my chair like I've
    overdosed on coffee, they seem to think I don't care.  I do care.  I'm
    excited.  I don't show it.  I tried to get into teaching in this
    company and did a presentation so they could see how I was in front of
    an audience.  They said I wasn't enthusiastic enough.  I'm convinced I
    can teach but I have to do it my way, and not fit into some
    preconceived notion of what a teacher is.
    
    It works the other way too.  You have to know what motivates your
    people.  For example, I've found that the "loud" coaches are the ones
    who coach the linemen because playing line is hard work and those guys
    have to really be pushed.  The professorial types coach the positions
    like quarterback.  Or as one coach once put, "some guys you kick in the
    butt, some guys you kiss their butt and some guys you wipe their butt."
    
    John

>    Where it hurts me is that people see me across the table and just
>    because I'm quiet and not bouncing up and down in my chair like I've
>    overdosed on coffee, they seem to think I don't care.  I do care.  I'm
>    excited.  I don't show it.  


One tip, that you might or might not know about....

If you can't convince them on the "enthusisam" scale, make and maintain
direct eye contact as much as possible during the interview.  I mean
almost to a fault.

Invariably, that creates a feeling of sincerity, and that my be a good
substitute for the enthusiasm scale.

Not all interviewers are looking for someone who could be a contestant
on "Let's Make A Deal" or "The Price Is Right"...  The trick is convincing
the ones who are that they don't NEED that kind of a person 8^)




>    For example, I've found that the "loud" coaches are the ones
>    who coach the linemen because playing line is hard work and those guys
>    have to really be pushed.  



Geez, NOW I know why the coaches are ALWAYS screaming at the forwards
when they're on the scrum sled....  

But I've always maintained that just because a rugby forward or football
lineman is big and dumb, it doesn't mean they're deaf [many, many 8^)]


'Saw

    John,
    
    Your situation underlies much of what is wrong in corporate management
    today. The art of being interviewed is a skill that is important. BUT,
    the art of being an effective interviewER is equally important. A good
    interviewer knows what questions to ask to really know what a candidate
    has to offer. They know how to make the candidate feel at ease. They
    know how to filter out the glitz from the meat.
    
    However, too many folks in a decision making position don't have these
    skills. They are influenced by the glitz and showmanship that, in many
    cases, ends up with the employment of a person with little substance.
    
    'Saw brought out a good idea with eye contact. Also, when you wish
    to emphasize a particular strength, lean forward in your chair. When
    the interviewer talks to you, lean forward and maintain eye contact. By
    eye contact, this mean picking out the spot directly at the bridge of
    the node and staring at it. Simple things like eye contact and body
    language can play a big part in how you are perceived.
    
    In many cases in industry, technically competent people are rewarded by
    promotions to management positions. Some of these folks do a great job.
    But others lack the instincts to be a good manager which includes
    employee selection. 
    
    I know what you are talking about. First time I met you I was impressed
    by what I perceived was your interest in what I had to say. You are an
    excellent listener which is important to many people. You made me feel
    at ease and broke the ice nicely. 
    
    Don't sell yourself short so soon, John. You have many good qualities
    that an effective interviewer will pick up on.
    
    Rich
    

    I do both the eye contact and leaning forward in my chair thangs.
    
    I really listen hard when I'm listening, too.  A lot of it is because I
    can't hear people when they're talking too softly.
    
    John

>    anyone.  I see some of my buddies driving around in BMW 525s and
>    300ZX's and wonder if I'm doing the right thing sometimes.
    
    Pete,
    
    I used to wonder that too, back in the '80s when (if you believed the
    media) everyone made $200,000 at age 25... I can't comment about your
    friends, but most of the time when I see a young guy driving a $40,000 
    car, I figure it msut be one of 3 things: A) He's a poor little rich
    boy B) it's a leased car or C) he's a drug dealer :-0 (only kidding on
    the lasted one) With a leased car, you pay a ton more in the long run, 
    but that's the only way to drive a car you rally can't afford. A very
    '80s thng to do... (BTW I've got a rusty 1983 Toyota wif 97,000 miles
    on it, and it runs great!) 
    
    
    Ninj,
    
    I hear ya loud and clear on the interview process. I've been looking
    into this quite a bit over the last year, and have had more than a few.
    I've been told I come across as the "quiet professional" type, who
    answers questions in a matter-o-fack way. I've also been told to "show
    more enthusiasm" which can mean gesturing with the hands, eye contact
    and ranging the pitch of your voice. Most of all, it has to be
    something YOU are comfortable doing. Nothing is worse than someone you
    can see right through.
    
    There isn't a lot you can do if they are looking for a flashy smooth
    talker, and you ain't that type. If that's what they want, chances are
    you wouldn't be happy there anyway. You have to be yourself. Also, YOU
    are interviewing THEM. Ask yourself if YOU like the environment, work
    attitude and specifics of the job and the company. In a lot of ways,
    you are in a decent position. OK, so you might not like your current job, 
    but if you get an offer where your gut feeling is not right, you won't feel
    pressure to take it. If you were out of work, you'd jump at any halfway
    decent opportunity. This way you can bide your time and keep plugging
    away at identifying your "ideal" job, and going after it. It won't be
    the end of the world to stay in a dead-end job a bit longer if it means
    making a positive step to something much better.
    
    This kind of stuff is never easy to do and it's easy to get
    discouraged, so hang in there!
    
    Tom

    Well, friends, this is it.  Just received notice that notification will
    be Monday at 9:00 A.M.  If this is true this time, Monday will be our
    last day but we'll have use of the system through Friday.
    
    Since I don't have much else to do other than wait for a job offer from
    the people who took my pee, I'll probably be in here next week, but
    that's it.
    
    It's been fun.
    
    	--dan'l

    Dan'l, hope your urine checks out and you're on to better things.
    Same to you, Bob.  I'll bet in a year you'll look back on leaving
    DEC as a positive.
    
    On the expensive cars front, one of my buddies driving an expensive
    car is a perfect illustration about what you all have been talking
    about re: interviewing.  The guy was such a bad CPA that our firm
    almost fired him (he was saved because a very nice guy at the firm
    said he'd personally see to it that he became productive).  But, he
    was real slick with the clients, who didn't know he didn't know a
    damn thing.  He landed a job as CFO with one of our high-tech clients
    and then talked the owner into doubling his salary.  He's still getting
    by on charm and B.S.  And to think I thought doing a good job got you
    ahead.  All the more reason to escape big-company bureaucratic hell.
    Elsewhere, substance counts more than style.  
    
    My other friend with the BMW is leveraged to the max.  He has a huge
    house, the BMW and a new Cherokee.  He and his wife pull in about $130
    K or so, but they probably have about $200 in the bank.  I'm a deferred
    gratification kind of guy, and probably always will be.  I'm gonna 
    splurge soon and remodel our rental house with a phenomenal view of Lk
    Washington.  It'll be nice if I can ever afford the remodel.
    
    Pete

    re interviews:
    
    The best interviews I've ever had was when I had nothing to lose; i.e.
    I already had a job.  It seems if you go in with a " I got a job, I
    don't need you, so you'd better convince me to work here" attitude, you
    come across as very in control, which is what interviewers like.  
    
    Brews

 Okay, boys and girls, things are gonna get real tight around here so I'm
 saying the big good-bye now.  We all got officially axed this morning and
 that's the end of that.   
 
 I'm sorta an oddball case since I gotta make a biz trip to Italy tomorrow
 to transfer a project I'd been leading.   I should be back nexted Thursday
 and then have just two days to pack up and git.  I don't know how much
 longer I'll have this account ...
 
 So, it's been real, keep the faith, illegitimi non carborundum and all
 that rot ...   Say your prayers for Digital.  There are some seriously
 misguided people making some God-awful decisions these days.
 
 I'll miss you all ...
 
 Hugs and kisses,
 
 Bob Hunt

    In a few hours I sign some papers and that's it.  I'll be in and out
    the rest of the week, but officially I don't have to return. And to
    tell you the truth, the North Carolina weather is just about hitting
    its usual September perfection so I doubt I'll spend my days indoors.
    
    Here's my address and phone number if you would like to keep in touch
    or if you're ever in the area.  I still think we need to do a SPORTS
    bonding in Charlotte.
    
    	Daniel Medvid
    	224 N. Poplar St. #28
    	Charlotte, NC  28202
    
    	704/333-1433 (or 333-1HED)
    
    I know some of you have already sent me your addresses and phone
    numbers, but it's been busy and I don't know if I collected them all,
    so if you wouldn't mind sending them again...
    
    And I've still got some Charlotte Sharks Water Polo T-shirts if you're
    still interested.
    
    It's been a pleasure, friends.  I'll keep in touch through TTom to let
    you know how I'm doing and who I'm doing.
    
    Take care...all of you.
    
    	--dan'l

    
    Again, best of luck, Robert and dan'l.  You *will* be missed...
    
    glenn
    

 And now for the final indignity ... After I've spent the last coupla weeks
 trying to put together an expertise transfer kit for one of our current
 projects to deliver to our sister group in Turin, Italy and looking
 forward to my last official assignment for Digital in Turin, they've
 canceled the trip.   I was even going to take Cindy with me.
 
 The reason ???   Because I need to *physically* be in the office on the
 Monday of the final week in order to be properly laid off.  Can't use
 modern technology like telephones, FedEx, or FAX machines.   Has to be a
 physical presence.    So, they were going to try and have me sign the
 papers *today* but get an exception extension to stay until *next* Friday. 
 No can do.  Too much paperwork, not enough time.
 
 Digital just ate about $2,500 worth of non-refundable plane tix plus
 they've now got a corporate project on real shaky ground.  We've already
 got some live customers who've paid us big bucks for some of the project
 deliverables and they have legal contracts entitling them to technical
 support.  And now we be gone ...  DEC better get its legal engine cranked
 up.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Unbelievable! 
    
    Jeez, I figgured at the least you'd get to spend a few days in Italy,
    which is pretty nice this time-o-year... Best O Luck Bob, and if you
    get on the internet, keep in touch!
    
    Tom

One more time from me too:

Best of luck to you guys, I'm sure you will both do great things in the future.  
As I said before, your departure is OUR loss, especially those of us here in
::SPORTS.

=Bob=

    Well, friends, life got a little better yesterday.  Signed my layoff
    papers at 4:00 P.M., went home, phone rings at 4:47, First Union
    National Bank makes me a verbal offer.  
    
    Haven't accepted yet because I don't want to jeopardize any severance
    package stuff (though I don't think I would be even if I did), but I
    think 47 minutes is a new record for shortest unemployment in history.
    
    Went out to celebrate with my buddy lasted night and met a nice young
    lady who bears a strong resemblance to Roseanna Arquette.
    
    Musta been my lucky day.  Thanks for all your support.
    
    	--dan'l
    
    PS: Saw a great bumper sticker yesterday: "Saddam Hussein still has a
    job...Do you?"

    re-.1
    Good luck to ya, --dan'l, maybe she's a distant relative of Ms
    Arquette(sp?)!!
    
    JaKe
    

As Alabama would sing:

	You can't keep a good man down......




'Saw

    
    We had quite a few get whacked here yesterday, including about a
    quarter of our sales support people.  Now I've gotta be able to explain
    the technical aspects of Athena/DCE to my customer, by myself.  right.
    
    Brews  

CEO checking in...

Turk round III struck yesterday. Looks to be in the 15% range. It's hard
to tell because while they're wacking some groups, new groups are
forming.

In Sales the number was split between Reps and Support. Services has been
broken into 2 groups. The first used to be Field Service and they have
met the reaper. The second used to be Software Services and they're due
nexted Monday, although everyone knows if they're going or staying.

To put some perspective on this - NOT - some of those being wacked made
their budget and some that are staying didn't. 

TTom

    Eddie Money also sang "You can't keep a good man down"

      Love that p_name Mike!!!

    
    Brews,
    
    Just send me a ticket, I'll do the presenttion. Piece of cake.
    
    The Crazy Met
    
    

    Well, friends, that's it for me.  Just thought I'd get in here for one
    final good bye.  I haven't turned in my badge yet (and there are one or
    two things I want to do in the office tomorrow), but I doubt I'll be
    back in SPORTS after I hit the Exit key this time.

    SPORTS is what I'll miss most about Digital.  In the coming months,
    I'll often think of what I would have written, I'm sure.
    
    I have most of your addresses and phone numbers and I promise I'll be
    in touch if I'm ever in the area.  I hope you will do the same if you
    ever get down Charlotte way.

    Treat everyone you meet with equal respect.  Racism and bigotry not
    only hurt, they make you an ugly person.

    Go Steelers!  Go Pirates!  Go Penguins!  Go Sharks!  Go Clinton!

    	--dan'l

    sniff
    
    
    JaKe
    

    
    FWIW,
    
    My group got the OK to unfreeze the req. for a job on the Competitive
    Hotline.
    
    See the ::Jobs notesfile, #4229.
    
    
    Kev
    

 Good-bye and good luck to all my close friends and colleagues here in
 SPORTS.  I'll never forget you and I'll never forget what we've built
 here.   Your friendship and support over these last few weeks have meant
 more to me than you can ever imagine.
 
 - Carry on the old traditions but don't forget to invent new ones.
 - Keep the faith but don't neglect to renew it as often as you can.
 - Cherish your memories but keep on dreaming.
 
 Every end has a beginning.  I now stand at that juncture.   Tomorrow I
 start all over.   Wish me luck as I wish for you.   I loved Digital for a
 long time.   This is *not* the same place.   I hope someone steps forward
 and decides to make it a better place than it is now.  You all deserve
 better than this.
 
 Keep the faith, my dearest of friends ...
 
 Bob Hunt
 1050 Belmar Lane
 Rock Hill, South Carolina 29732
 803-366-5013
 
 P.S.  And if the Iggles should happen to win it all this year, know for
 sure that you would have seen an explosion of joy in here unlike any
 you've ever seen before.
 
 P.P.S.   Dean Smith is the biggest gagjob choker of all time.  No one is
 worshiped so hard by so many for doing so little with so much for so long.

    Good Luck, Bob!  You sure will be missed in this file, as you were one
    of the best noters in here.
    
    Joe

    
    Peace, Bob.
    
    (sniff.)
    
    Cath

And to quote Jim McKay, on that dreadful evening in Munich 20 years
ago:


	"And they're all gone"

Rest assured Bob, everytime I'm watching L.A. Law, I'll be thinking, "How
would've Bob Hunt reported this in ::SPORTS.

Good Luck Bob,

Tom Chappel

Go get 'em in the real world, BobHunt.

    Got mail from Bob. He says hi to everyone. He is now part owner
    of a new software company. He will be in Alabama the next few weeks
    doing some All-In-1 software project for fleet management.
    So things are looking up for him.
    
    He also reminds everyone to root for the Eagles on Monday night against
    the Cowboys.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    Well, I guess JUST for Bob, I could root against the sowboys.
    
    Brews

    Sowboys play in Washington ....  aka  Hogs, deadskins! or is that pork
    skins 
                                            
    :^))

    No.... the Cowboys play at the Vet tonight. The Eagles are winning 10-7
    just before halftime.
    
    Dennis Faust
    

    I was refering to the the name Sowboys. Not the Cowboys. A Sow is an
    adult female swine or HOG.  The Hogs play in RFK.

>    I was refering to the the name Sowboys. Not the Cowboys. A Sow is an
>    adult female swine or HOG.  The Hogs play in RFK.


To quote Dennis Leary:   WRONG....

	Cowboys 	:== Sowboys
	Redskins        :== Deadskins (or foreskins)


hth,
'Saw

>                   -< BobHunt must be one happy dude today >-

Bet he's absolutely woodyward.

I cain just see him down there in 'bama, sittin' in the hotel
bar rootin his haid off for the Eagles....


'Saw

    BobHunt in a bar?? Nahhhh :-)
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    I sho hope Bob Hunt is happy. :(
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.
    

    where was the internet r whatever it is, address for Bob Hunt????
    
    Thanks
    
    JaKe
    

>    where was the internet r whatever it is, address for Bob Hunt????
    

 		DECWRL::"[email protected]"
    
There you go.

If you get any problems, you can also use DECPA:: instead of DECWRL::


'Saw

    Thanks, Saw.
    
    JaKe
    

Whereabouts of BobH and Dan'l.......

           <<< CNOTES::DISK$SHADOWS:[NOTES$SHADOWED]DIGITAL.NOTE;3 >>>
                          -< The DEC way of working >-
================================================================================
Note 2172.0                      Live after DEC                       No replies
MRKTNG::UTRTSC::SCHOLLAERT "BP: *S*ervices, *S*ervi" 39 lines  21-OCT-1992 18:03
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Good to see that there is live after DEC for a number 
    of my former ALL-IN-1 collegues....
    
    Jan
    
                <<< IOSG::LIB0:[NOTES$LIBRARY]ALL-IN-1.NOTE;3 >>>
                     -< ALL-IN-1 (tm) Support Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 1246.36               Charlotte to close down...                   36 of 37
DEVIL1::CAFE1 "Mike Lampson - [email protected]." 27 lines  21-OCT-1992 20:00
                                  -< update >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well, some of us ex-Charlotteans are back contracting to DEC:
    
    Contracting to DEC-Canada @AKO1:
    --------------------------------
    Mike Lampson - GIADEV::CAFE1
    Steve Sealy  - GIADEV::CAFE2
    Jack Creamer - GIADEV::CAFE3
    Hal Pryor    - GIADEV::CAFE4
    
    We're only here for a short while.  I am available on the Internet at
    DECWRL::"[email protected]".  I now work for Excellent Office
    Systems, Inc. along with Don Vickers, Mike Gozaloff and Joe Whatley.
    
    Hal has started a company called Phoenix Technology Assoc.  Jack
    Creamer and Bob Hunt have joined him.
    
    At least 8 ex-Charlotte people now work for Network Computing Corp. in
    Charlotte.  Sadly, they do not have network access.  Those people are
    Brenda Lampson, Murali Atyam, Dave Yommer, Rebecca Jandrisevits, Danny,
    Twitty, Mark Cotton, Pat Rosa and Douglas Welton.
    
    Dan Lanphear joined Glaxo in the RTP area.  Dan Medvid joined First
    Union bank.  Others are still looking.
    
    Cheers,
    
    _Mike

    Got a t-shirt in the mail today... and a note...
    
    Walt,
    Here is your official Charlotte Sharkes Water Polo T-shirt.  Sorry it
    took a few weeks to get it to you.   Hope it's not too cold up there
    now to wear it.  Since I'm not planning on any trips to New England in
    the near future, you won't have to worry about snow.
    
    Started my new job at First Union National Bank on Monday.  That was 
    orientation (a bunch of facts and figures... including the lovely lady
    from West Virginia who sat next to me).  So yesterday was really my
    first day on the job.  And what I am doing already but wasting time
    writing to you.  Actually, this gives me a good chance to learn
    Wordperfect.
    
    I hope you'll communicate all of this to the SPORTsters... those that
    are left that is.  Got word that John Hendry left Digital also.  I do
    miss SPORTS.  Had withdrawals most of the few weeks AD (After Digital).
    
    Basically up until Monday I've been on five weeks paid vacation.  I
    went to the beach for a week.  Went to Pittsburgh for the NLCS.  Stupid
    me forgot to take the information on how to contact JaKE, Crazy Met and 
    Wagamain so please apologize to them for me... I did look for them in
    the parking lot though.
    
    I've pretty much put Jai and that entire debacle behind me.  And I met
    another nice lady in the meantime.  She's very nice, funny and
    intelligent and it doesn't hurt that she's a drop-dead gorgeous,
    professional model.  I can't say that it's serious yet, but we're both
    kind of moony eyed so there is potential for a good relationship.  Bob
    Hunt asked if I "planted the eight ball in the side pocket yet" and
    gave me all kids of grief when I told him she was worth waiting for...
    but I'm chalking up my cue in the meantime.
    
    This past weekend, the Sharks played in a tournament at NC State.  We
    won our first three games on Saturday against NC State, VMI and the
    Tarheels (YES!!).  The average margin of victory was six points. On
    Sunday we faced James Madison in the championship game.  Don't know how
    they made it that far because we destroyed them 22-4.  I had five goals
    in the first quarter.
    
    I am going to love my new job.  Already they think I'm a PC expert. 
    Hate to disappoint them.  They get this notion from something I did
    yesterday.  They had a demo diskette of Word Perfect Presentations that
    they had tried to run on Monday with little success.  They asked me to
    try it.  So I put the diskette in the A drive, set default (actually
    CD for change directory... got to start think in those DOS terms now),
    and typed DEMO.  VOILA!  Everyone was astounded.  "How did you know how
    to do that?"  This is going to be fun.
    
    It's a drag wearing a suit to work everyday, but I guess I'll get used
    to that after a short time.  One of the great things about this job is
    that I can walk to work.  Boy that's nice.  No traffic, no expense, no
    mileage on the power bulge.  Another nice thing is that I get those 
    ridiculous federal holidays off.
    
    I was talking to the "system manager" here yesterday and he said that
    there is a chance in the future that we could have access to
    CompuServe.  If that happens, I'll be communicating electronically with
    y'all.  But since they can't even figure out how to run a demo
    diskette, I think internet access is a long way off if I had my guess.
    
    Digital's error in shutting down the Charlotte office is beginning to
    glare.  Of the 50-60 people they cut, about 95% of them have landed
    jobs already.  You still have to factor in that Charlotte's economy
    is very strong, but to have most of those pick up jobs within three
    weeks of being laid off shows the calibre of workers Digital let go.
    
    Well, time to get going.  Gotta get First Union into the top 10 banks
    in the country (right  now, we're #11).
    
    Go Clinton! Go Penguins! Go Steelers! Go (away) Barry Bonds!
    
    					Dan'l

    fwiw Ron Stoke's (my section head, formerly Bob H's and dan'l's section
    head) is resigning and moving to another position in Digital.
    
    The Carzy Met
    

    In all fairness for a while he was an ok manager; wouldn't rank him
    among the best but certainly competent. It is when all the reorgs
    started 2.5 years ago that lots of things started to change. But in
    1989 and 1990 he was not bad. fyi: he was my manager in those days, he
    became Jeff's, Bob's, dan'l's manager only much later.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

>    In all fairness for a while he was an ok manager; wouldn't rank him
>    among the best but certainly competent. It is when all the reorgs
>    started 2.5 years ago that lots of things started to change. But in
>    1989 and 1990 he was not bad. fyi: he was my manager in those days, he
>    became Jeff's, Bob's, dan'l's manager only much later.
    
Sounds like the Peter Principle......



The inherent problem is that over the years, so many boobs have been
promoted to middle management.   Instead of being canned for incompetency,
they were promoted.   

Now, when the company is on the line, the same boobs are making the decisions
about which of us stay, and which of us go....


I am still very surprised that we have not read of a "Post Office"
scenario yet at DEC.....


'Saw    

Hi all,


Well, last evening I received a phone call from


Our main main, Dan'l Medvid!


He said to say hi to all the SPORTS noters, and to tell you all that
yes, there is life after DEC.  He is VERY pleased with his job, and said
that he has received more recognition and praise in the short time with
the Bank than in all his time with DEC.

He says he does have to wear suits to work, but that he's used to it, 
and of course, walking to work is a big bonus.


Things are going well with his love life (what else!) and the model
that he mentioned is still very much in the picture.  He says he'll keep
me informed on how it goes.

He told me that he and Bob will be attending the Viginia-Ohio U hoops
game nexted fall.


We talked for about half an hour, and I have to say it was REALLY good
hearing from him.


Sounds like things are working out for him, and he said to tell everyone
that his life is starting to fall into place again.



'Saw

    Well that's good to hear. It's strange working with a 
    group of people who feel like there is a sword hanging 
    over their heads constantly.  I've resigned myself to the
    fact my days are numbered here.  In spite of that, I 
    show up every day and work hard.  It probably won't 
    matter to DEC but it's important for me.
    
    BoB  

    Well folks, it looks like the end is near for me as well. However, this
    is GOOD news for me, since I have been looking to move on ever since
    my whole group got TSFO'd in the summer of '91. (I've been very fortunate 
    to have been able to remain contracting here since then, but it was a 
    short-term situation at best.)
    
    On December 14th I'll be starting my new job at a "small software
    company" (where have we heard that before?). I will be writing a lot of
    the marketing communications/PR literature similar to what I do/did at
    DEC, and I'll also be heavily involved with the international
    organization.
    
    Anyway, I'll be on Internet, so I'll still be able to keep in touch
    with my "electronic" friends. I'll post my address when I find out.
    I've enjoyed meeting all you noters at various get-togethers and I'm
    looking forward to the next one. Whoever is organizing the Patriots Day
    Sox game, I'm there!    
    
    I feel fortunate that I was able to land on my feet, and considering
    the overall climate of the company, I hope that anyone else who finds 
    tough times ahead will also be able to weather the storm. I've got tons
    of job hunting material that was very useful to me, and I'll be glad to
    copy it and send it along to anyone that could use it. 
    
    I remain, 
    
    stealing Kev's closing
      
    Tom 

    
    Good deal, Tom.  Best of luck to you.
    
    Dickstah
    

Good luck Tom.

Enjoyed the literary quality of your notes...

=Bob=

Hey mon,

Have an i-ree time at de new company mon.  Tell them to listen to reggae
music every day!


Get Together, Get Together alert....


'Saw

    
    No sadness here fo you Tom.  I'm glad you'll have something better.
    You start 12/14.  When will you walk out the door here?  Gotta know
    if'n we're gonna 'rainge a get together.
    
    I remain,
    and YOU'RE not!
    ;^)    :*(
    
    ??????????
    Kev
    

    FISH Rool...
    
    -Fish_on_leave

    
    Buena suerte, Tom.  Take good care of that t-shirt that we won, ok? 
    
    8-)
    
    
    Cath

We were told today that 80 people in CXO and ALF are history. 

Seems like Dec 14 is my last day in Sports. 

Jeff

       Good luck Jeff, any other Sportsters in your group?
                                 Denny

    Damn... Good luck Jeff. 
    
    
     I heard today at lunch that it's 100 total out of the CXO1,2, and 3
    sites.  About 35 to 40 out of manufacturing and the rest out of site 
    services and the Customer Support Center.  The Shit is really hitting
    the fan.  The list that was submitted for disparate review was rejected
    for some formatting reasons.  folks that were to be notified today of
    their upcoming demise will not hear until nexted(tm) week.  I've also
    heard from people involved in the selection process that is the best 
    that they've participated in so far as far as fairness, etc...  Oh
    well,  I wish it would just be over
    
    BG

    
    Good luck Jeff, you were one of the few sportsters who I'd met in
    person and with whom I'd actually done real work.  AS I said on the
    phone, hopefully it'll work out.  Personally, I'm screwed without your
    group.
    
    Brews

      Good luck Jeff.  You are one of the 1st people that I met at DEC and
    still remember the shirt swapping bet that you had with Gary that one
    year.
    
       It must be that 8x jinx?
    
      Tim

    
    Sorry to hear about it Jeff. Good luck in whatever you end up doing.
    
    As for a get together, yeah, I'm up for it. Pretty much any time is
    good for me, other than Dec 8th. I'll be in and out of the office here
    tying up the loose ends, so even if we don't get to it until after the
    14th, I'll still be around. I don't know how long they let you keep
    your mail account, but my wife has one, and I'll also be on the
    internet, so I'll be able to keep in touch one way or the other.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Tom