Conference 7.286::sports_91

       Anyone see the 60 Minutes piece on Auburn lasted night? I missed it
    but wondered if anything new came out.
                                    Denny

    Most excellent congrat's to the University of Miami, the finest pro
    football team south of Joe Robbie Stadium.  In a significant but
    little noticed investigation Dennis Ericksen testified recently about
    how UM officials knowingly falsified Pell Grant applications so that
    federal money could be used to pay off the football players.
    
    MrT

    And how 'bout Auburn?  Anybody see 60 Minutes last night?  Ain't 
    heard voices that sneaky since the Watergate tapes.  
    
    Yes, this proud Nation a ours will learn a critical lesson from these
    Eric Ramsey revelations: Do all your brown bag deals on the football
    field where the scholar-athlete ain't wearing a wire!
    
    Ahhh, how proud I aim to think that Indiana took Auburn to the last
    play in that bowl game before finally going down in defeat to a...
    pro team.
    
    MrT

    Lest we come off as cynics weighted down with negative attitudes, let's
    recognize some clean programs:
    
    Indiana
    Notre Dame
    Purdue
    Michigan *
    Duke
    Wisconsin
    Penn State
    
    MrT

MrT,

Don't forget the plethora of small schools, who have good football programs,
and true scholar-athletes...


'Saw

    Gee T,
    When I first saw this topic's title and yo' P Name in the basenote,
    Ah thought we was a headin towards censure. 8^)
    
    Tell me, under clean programs, any special significance to the * nexted
    to Michigan?
    
    BTW, all the college sleaze here in the state revolves around
    ex-Dukakoid administrators who belong to the organization NAP,an
    acronym fer Not Another Pedophile.  Mucho 8^)'s.
    
    MikeL
    

    Probably talked about this last week but it's worth a mention here:
    
    Loved the Miami running back who ran up over $3K on a charge card
    mistakenly mailed to his address...and his two former Hurricane
    teammates who helped him do so.
    
    	--dan'l

    >any special significance to the * nexted to Michigan?
    
    Yes.  Yes, there is: Michigan had a_asst. baseball coach who forked
    over some dough.  True to the midwest's rock solid apple pie rep, he's
    going up on felony charges.
    
    MrT

Loved the comment from the paper the other day...


"Unlike UNLV the Miami Heat has a Salary cap". 

    Glad ta see Michigan keepin' its house clean.
    
    Notre Dame just turned itself into the NCAA for a minor violation
    regarding the Mike Miller situation. Seems that since Miller in now
    a student at Houston, and is deemed recruitable by all colleges
    because he plays no inter-scholastic sports. ND violated NCAA
    policy when Holtz unwittingly ( yea, yea, I hear ya ) mentioned
    to South Bend journalists that Miller had contacted ND admissions
    office people about coming back to school. Tis considered a no no
    I guess. All ND says about the matter now is "Our admissions office
    has been contacted by Miller".  Holtz now only says "No comment."
    Doubt anything becomes of this, but ND stepped forward once they
    realized their mistake. It was either that or wait for Houston to turn
    them in. Houston wants Miller to remain at UH and run track in the
    spring.
    
    MikeL
    
    
    

>   Yes, this proud Nation a ours will learn a critical lesson from these
>    Eric Ramsey revelations: Do all your brown bag deals on the football
>    field where the scholar-athlete ain't wearing a wire!


Poor..poor Eric Ramsey....He's just as sleazy as the Auburn football program.
This kid took money for 4 years from the program all the time making secret
tapes of the conversations....Got a $9k loan and probably got his wife a job
paying beyond her skills....

Then When Eric doesn't make a pro team and doesn;t have any money he decides to
go public to show America what Div 1 football is all about...Poor Eric is also
going to write a book about his trial and tribulations as a black football
player at Auburn where he was "treated like a piece of meat" by the coaches
and football program...Poor, poor eric...

Poor, poor eric never decided that he was breaking the rules while he was at 
school and never thought about turning the money over to the NCAA. Nor has
poor Eric justified taking teh money in college other than by saying "everybody
else was getting it, why shouldn't I?"

Poor poor eric was also turned in by other students for cheating on a psych 
exam and used threats of his tapes to get that investigation dropped.

Ramsey is just as big a sleaze (probably bigger for ratting on people based on 
his own agenda after taking the bucks for 4 years ) as coach Dye and the 
rest of the coaches...

Don't anybody think Eric Ramsey is doing this for the good of student athletes
and the wish to clean up Div 1 football. Eric Ramsey is turning over his 
tapes (not admissable in any court BTW) for $$$ for Eric Ramsey....


John

Thanks Metz couldn't have even come close to saying it that good....

mike

    
    RE-2, -1
    
    Don't they teach you how to earn a living at Auburn.  Not your standard
    option but it will go over as a profit making venture.  Ol' Eric could
    also be leading himself to a little dance with the IRS.  Believe me
    some of the Tiger faithful are working the background over.
    
    Roy L.

    >T, what about Alonzo's wardrobe?
    
    Talk to me.  What about it?  Do we have some material to work over
    in connection with the Sneering One's duds?  Sure hope so.
    
    MrT

 naw just rehashing some ole trash from last year..his 2K leather he was spotted
 around the Big_Apple with last year at the tournement....

 have to wait till march before I can give ya an update on what's chic this
 year....

    A $2,000 leather coat?  That's hard to believe from the Horrors.
    After all, this is the program that gave us scholar-athlete-Michael 
    Graham and Patrick Ewing's heart-tugging "dyslexia."
    
    MrT

>    A $2,000 leather coat?  That's hard to believe from the Horrors.
>    After all, this is the program that gave us scholar-athlete-Michael 
>    Graham and Patrick Ewing's heart-tugging "dyslexia."
    

    But T, atleast all of JT's boy graduate....unless of course they
    somehow matriculate or disappear...but of course JT has nothing
    to do about those type of decisions....

 mike

                                                            
    What exactly was shown on "60 Minutes"?  Was Pat Dye himself caught in 
    the act?
    
    No question about it, Eric Ramsey is a Grade A sleazeball.
    Unfortunately, Dye and his fast-talking lawyer readily pass off
    this fact as if it's somehow relevant to Dye and his coaches' own
    conduct, and some of the Auburn faithful are taking the bait.  It's 
    not relevant.  If Ramsey has the goods that prove that the Auburn
    braintrust were cheating by paying him, then their actions speak for
    themselves.  Maybe Ramsey will get locked up for extortion as an
    added bonus...
    
    glenn
    

The only thing directly related to Pat Dye were two conversations he recorded...

The first one dealt with getting him a $9k loan at a bank that had turned him 
down previously but the Dye was very influential at. After talking to Dye where
Ramsey mentioned that he needed a loan because the money he got from another 
coach went to pay his bills...He got the loan the next day without having to fill
in any paperwork...

The other conversation dealt with Ramsey talking to Dye about the fact that his
financial problems were getting all cleared up. Only Ramsey is talking, You 
never hear Dye mention a word....Ramsey's lawyer state that this is 
incriminating because Dye didn;t question Ramsey's talks about financial stuff..
Dye's people are saying that he was busy playing with Ramsey's son and wasn't
really listening to Ramsey....


Metz

    In fack in that 2nd conversation Dye DID say a word, several a them.
    He responded to direct questions with words like "yes," "good," and
    so forth.
    
    Forget Ramsey: Dye's a cold-busted crook who got caught red handed.
    If the NCAA has anything left in its arsenal in this post-Tark era
    Pat Dye will never coach in the NCAA again and Auburn'll go SMU way.
    
    MrT

    
    Metz,
    
    	You mentioned that the tapes won't stand up in court.  The
    	NCAA doesn't care about that.  They can use any *evidence*
    	they want when handing down penalties.
    
    T,
    
    	When was Colorado ever in trouble?  I honestly don't know.
    	Was it during McCartney's era?
    
    Claybone

    While waiting at a_airport gate in Jacksonville returning from 
    their bowl game several FSU grid players became "very abusive
    and physical" with airline and airport employees.  The police 
    were called and took the players into custody.  They later were 
    released and the police stated that assault charges would not be 
    filed. 

The report I heard on the radio this morning stated that the players
were hurling racial epithets at the gate employees....


Any new news on this?

    Sorta reminds me a Carolina last year, accosting the referee and
    tussling with the police.  Bowden, like Smif', is lauded for running
    a "classy" program and now this.
    
    MrT

    Nah, 
    Couldn't have been racial slurs, had to be Casey Weldon bitchin' at
    havin' to wait. Seems he had to babysit whilst his wife registered
    him for "his" classes,of which "she" has to do the homework. 8^)
    
    HTH
    MikeL
    
    

    
    > Couldn't have been racial slurs, had to be Casey Weldon bitchin' at
    > havin' to wait. Seems he had to babysit whilst his wife registered
    > him for "his" classes,of which "she" has to do the homework. 8^)
    
    That may or may not be worse than what happened to Amp Lee, who was 
    suspended and is now apparently bounced out of school for academic
    non-achievement.  Maybe Bowden learned a partial lesson on that front
    from Deion Sanders, who, as it turns out, didn't go to classes at all 
    his senior year, period, but who didn't get suspended until he was 
    involved in some off-campus fracas before the New Year's Day bowl game. 
    
    Yes, the hypocrisy rampant in college sports just keeps piling up...
    
    glenn
    

    Bowden probably learned no dang lesson from Sanders, Glenn. His hand
    was probably forced somehow in suspending Lee. And then he musta been
    real proud to hear and read Weldon's garbage. 
    
    MikeL
    

BTW - Lee will attend junior college this spring semester and then re-apply for
admittance for the fall semester...They expect no problems getting him readmitted
in time for fall practice and the start of a new season....

Convienent, huh?


  Metz

    Wait a sec Metz,
    I thought Lee was a senior. That is correct procedure for
    re-admittance, but is not all his foosball eligibilty gonzo?
    Or was he red-shirted/injured one year? Anyone know da facks
    'bout Lee?
    
    MikeL
    

    
    Amp Lee's got another year of eligibility left unless he decides to
    turn pro.  Considering his academic standing, it might not be a bad
    idea to cease with the charade and just become a professional
    *officially*, regardless of his current draft prospects.
    
    glenn
    

    Yes, St. John's name is being dragged through the mud.  A former 
    Redmain hoops player or recruit (forget whether he actually attended
    St. John's and also forget his name) now at another school has
    charged that he was offered $30,000 to play by a_alumnus.  Louie and
    school officials have promised an investigation.
    
    MrT

Did anyone catch the blurb at half time of the Va-Wake game last night
about the players (Camp?) who's been given a scholarship at Houston even
though he only has 1 year of eligibility?

His history had him attending 4 different schools. I forget where he
started but that ended when he was busted for kidnapping and other such
stuff. He eventually was acquited, played JC ball, went to Arizona where
he got into more trouble (credit card, I think) back to JC and now to
Houston.

The debate was that he only got that many chances because he was a
superstar on the floor.

TTom

Yep, I saw it, TTom.   Funny but I can't remember his name either.  Sam 
somebody.   He's starring for Houston right now.

Started out at Iowa State under Johnny Orr but was accused of a kidnapping 
and robbery crime.  Was acquitted but was booted off the team anyway.  Went 
to Arizona but never played there because he was involved in a credit card 
scam, like you said.

Then went to JC and now is at Cougar High.   Yes, the issue was raised that 
perhaps a "normal" college kid wouldn't have been given this many chances.  
Valvano had the final word on it ... Yes, any "normal" college kid can get 
as many chances as he/she can finagle but they can't get *scholarships* 
with to go along.

Bob Hunt  

That's the whole point: anyone can theoretically go back to school after
1 or 2 or more brushes with the law but the scholarship is the key.

Hey DrM! Tell us the deal about this kid.

TTom

    The fella is Sam Mack and let me tell you he can *flat-out* **PLAY**.
    He absolutely torched Carolina in our meeting last month.  Inside,
    outside, rebounds, 3-pointers, ball-handling, ... you name it, he's got
    it!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    So, of you are arrested but not found guilty, you are still guilty and
    should go around with some kind of Scarlet Letter tattooed on your
    chest.

That was something I missed. Why was he thrown outta Iowa State if'n he
was acquited? Is it a Big8 violation to go to court to defend yourself?

And he was found guilty in the credit card offense. He got 3 years
probation.

TTom

I forget why he left Iowa State.  I think Orr just booted him.   His other 
pal in the kidnapping and robbery case pleaded guilty but Mack (thanks, 
Soup) went to trial and beat it.   Don't know why.

He was guilty of the credit card scam in Tempe.   Probation with the 
threat of jail time if he didn't stay outta trouble.

Bob Hunt

�He was guilty of the credit card scam in Tempe.   Probation with the 
�threat of jail time if he didn't stay outta trouble.
    
    So he was already punished for his crime.  The entire NCAA should also
    pass sentence?

    
    > So he was already punished for his crime.  The entire NCAA should also
    > pass sentence?
    
    I don't know anything about this kid, so maybe I'm dead wrong, but the
    point is that most NCAA schools don't give a crap whether the kid
    pretends to be a student or not.  With that kind of a record I'll go 
    out on a limb and say that if he were a normal student he wouldn't get 
    into those schools, period.  The problem isn't with kid, it's with the 
    schools.
    
    Since when is Jimmy Valvano the conscience of the game?  Like he knows 
    all about "normal" students like Washburn, Shackelford, etc.
    
    glenn
    

Actaully Valvano was fairly candid about this whole thing. He said
upfront that he knew about these issues because it was part of the
problem he had at NC State. 

Not defending Valvano here but there was no ducking and no passing it off
like it didn't happen to him or it wasn't really his fault.

Actually, a lot of programs have a history of taking a chance or going
for marginal students. Even our good friends at No Carolina-Chapel Hill.
The guy Williams, who's playing for Indiana, is an example of this. Not
saying he was in trouble with the law but he was a bona fide marginal
student who couldn't attend No Carolina because of technicality: he
didn't graduate from high school.

On the issue of academics, the college presidents have proposed a sliding
scale for incoming freshmen. The old 700 SAT has been replaced with a new
scale that is dependent on the student's grade point avg in core classes.
A 700 is required *IF* the student has a 2.5. If the student has only a
2.0 avg, that student needs a 900 on SATs to qualify for freshmen
eligibility. As the GPA increases, the SAT requirements decrease.

I think this is only a proposal at this point.

TTom

    re: .-1
    
    I thought they said the lowest SAT that would be allowed with the
    sliding scale was 750, not 700.  In any case, the new rules don't come
    into play until 1995.
    
    BTW, Williams did do well on his SAT's, which is why he was admitted to
    UNC.  All schools make the assumption that he's gonna actually go ahead
    and graduate ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    No, it, called Prop16, was passed.  And quit defending Vulvano 
    willya TTom.
    
    MrT

If it doesn't go into effect until 95 then we still have time to hear
from John Thompson and then here from T about John Thompson.

Someone mentioned last night that as many as 70% of black freshmen
athletes may not be able to meet these standards. The question is, will
the NCAA help these high school student-athletes.

TTom

    The NCAA is not responsible for helping these high school with
    deficient credentials.  They ARE responsible for showing some
    leadership at a time when this country's losing market share,
    respect, and real average income going into a era when brainpower
    and value-added is critical to the nation's well-being.
    
    The reason these kids are in this situation has nothing to do with
    racially-biased testing (a ridiculous and irresponsible notion) or
    with poor school districts (it's much easier to get a 2.5 in an
    inner city school than a suburban school); it has to do with the
    fact that they're hanging out at the court all night or watch TV
    too much or are just plain lazy cuz after having seen the likes of
    Patrick Ewing and Michael Graham presented to them as BMOCs they
    make the reasonable assumption of, "why bother?"
    
    MrT
    

    MorT,
    
    Regarding your (late - I posted that rumor days ago) feeble attempt
    to drag St. John's through the sleeze mud, I'd like to provide you with
    a few irrefutable facts.
    
    1) The NCAA suspended 6'7" Dexter Cambridge of Texas for
    accepting $7,000 after graduating from some JC, 
    
    2) Cambridge then said he was offered $30,000 to play at St. John's
    by somebody (n.b. - Not a member of the coaching staff)
    
    3) On TV, LOUIEEEE denied *ANY* knowledge of the alleged offer and 
    insisted that his accuser be brought forward to identify the "offeror"
    
    4) It was reported last night that Dexter Cambridge was unable to
    provide any kind of a description on the "alleged" offeror!
    
    
    My conclusion is that for some reason, he's p*ssed at SJU and dreamed
    up the whole thing.  There's *NO* evidence, sans the verbal accusation
    by 1 individual that this took place.
    
    Please sir, in the future please refrain from attempting to associate
    the honorable LOUIEEEE and SJU with the sleeze element.  OK?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Kev
    

    >In the future... please refrain from... OK?
    
    In the attempt I'll continue to post allegations as they are 
    reported, whether true or false, in the press, and will refrain
    from nothing.
    
    MrT

    even if they are *OLD* and repetitious?
    
    ;^)
    Kev
    

    Farloid, why the urge to muzzle noters from typing in allegations
    as reported by AP, and distorting them as "dragging through mud"
    and such?
    
    Questions abound: Last nite Dexter stuck to his story on the ESPN
    intereview.  So why are the NorthEastCorridorCircleJerk-oriented media
    insisting he's backed off when he hasn't?  Dexter sez he was shown the
    dough.  Why would a guy fork over $30,000 of his own money.  Wasn't
    the money somebody else's, like St. John's?  Or if it were his money
    did he propose to fork it over out a sheer altruism or was he promised
    something in return by St. John's?
    
    Questions.  Troubling questions.
    
    MrT

    MorT,
    
    Naw, I'm not trying to muzzle ANY noters, 'specially you (cause there
    aren't any big enough for your yap) [isfh] from typing in anything.  My
    point(s) were a) What you put in was redundant ('cause I reported it
    earlier, and b) according to the reports *I've* heard, he couldnl't
    even come up with a description of the "offeror"!
    
    Sorry but I didn't see ESPN last night so I missed what they had to
    say.  Please be so kind as to share your observations.
    
    BTW, nothing in my SI even mentioned this.  I believe the story broke
    before they would have gone to press.  Why do you this this kind of a 
    juicy one wasn't mentioned?  Could it be that SI felt it didn't have
    enough valildation to be considered as anything but an unwarranted
    smear against LOUIEEEE and SJU?
    
    
    He's probably not backing off for the same reason that guy in Texas
    "taped" all that stuff - the chance to make a name for himself (15
    minutes of fame) and perhaps some cash!  Imo, of course.
    
    go for it.....
    
    Kev
    

    >I'm not trying to muzzle ANY noters
    
    Oh yeah?  Then why these chilling inaccurate statements in your
    "warning" note?
    
    >Regarding your... feeble attempt to drag St. John's through the
    >sleeze mud...
    
    >Please sir, in the future refrain from attempting to asociate the
    >honorable (Louie Carnagesickum) with the sleeze element.  OK?
    
    No.  If citing allegations as reported in the press is attempting
    to mud-drag or sleaze-connect then I cain't.  No. 
    
    MrT

    I aksed ya to "report" what was said on ESPN.  You haven't done that.
    All you've done is rant and rave about (until you tell us) hearsay
    allegations.
    
    You're ducking the answer.  Whatya anyway, Chris's clone??????
    
    ;^)
    

    What are you moaning about?
    
    What I did was type in what Associated Press reported, and then what
    was said during the half-time interview.  Beyond that I've only pointed
    out that *if* the $30,000 were indeed flashed it's hard to believe it
    was a act a alumni altruism.
    
    Dexter said that he met the main, saw the dough, and plans to describe
    him to the investigators.  Meanwhile the spin artists in front a the
    cameras at ESPN continued to wrongly report that he coulddn't even 
    describe this agent a crookery.
    
    MrT

    SyrExcuse, they of the startling recruiting success, has admitted
    that players were paid cash money, received free services, etc.
    
    Per usual, these things were done without the knowledge of the school
    or AD, and were "isolated incidents."
    
    MrT

 Boeheim also made it quite clear his feelings that *ANY* school would 
 scare up a couple of these "minor" transgressions if they just poked
 around long enough ... like a year long internal investigation.
 
 Really, Jim ???
 
 Bob Hunt

    Boeheim is right to a certain extent.  The NCAA regs are so confusing
    and contradictory that every school probably commits a few inadvertent
    violations every year, through no fault of its own.
    
    Seems to me that the Syracuse violations are more than just minor,
    though.
    
    John

    Careful MorT.  None other than BobKnight himself has stated that it's
    completely *IMPOSSIBLE* for a college head coach to know everything
    that's going on with his players.  If an alum comes up to Alan
    Henderson and slips him a $50 spot for a particularly good game there's
    no way Knight would know about it.
    
    (Now when players who came from the inner city start showing at
    practice driving new sports cars, well, ... that's a bit different, ala
    Tark, etc.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Got to luv poor put-upon Tark.  It's only mildly surprisng that his
    starting lineup likes to sit in hot tubs with convicted game-fixers;
    what got me was a CBS Sunday Morning spot on the poor bedeviled UNLV
    Runnin' Rabble the morning of their game with Arkansas last year.
    
    They showed the Rabble players coming and going from practice in their
    cars.  As I remember, that amateur Larry was wheeling a BMW 735i which
    is only about $45K, Stacey had a real nice Mercedes 500SL, but my fave
    was Eric's ride, it was a BMW M3, a homologated street racer that lists
    for about $60K.
    
    MrT

    Hmmm
    All garnered of course from their eminently successful
    "entrepreneurial" business dealings.
    
    MikeL
    

    Well Karen,
    After many attempts, you finally found an appropriate home fer your
    note!
    
    MikeL