Conference 7.286::sports_91

    Connors now must face Michael Chang........

    Change the title please.
    
    Mark.

    Ditto .2!!!
    
    "Frog" (as I'm sure the author is aware) is a derogatory term, so far
    as the French are concerned.  Whereas it is considered inappropriate
    (and showing very poor taste) to use slang terms for Hispanics, Jews,
    etc., why should the French be subjected to such bullshit?
    
    
    Warmest Regards,
    
    Nelly

re last 2

I can't imagine why *you* would be offended.

This conference is *full* of some pretty nasty nicknames/slang terms that are
only meant in jest and that's the way we take them.  Can't see any difference
here.

Oh, and don't use four letter words in here as they could offend some people.

rick

    I'm as thick-skinned as the next guy, and personally, I'm not offended
    by the term.  However, if someone started a "spic", "nigger" or "kike"
    note, you could rest assured that SPORTS would be shut down but pronto.
    
    In the interest of keeping SPORTS out of trouble, I again *suggest* you
    change the title.  There are DEC employees in France, you know.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Mark.

    Gotts agree with Lufy on this one....
    
    REK
    
    Please change the title.........

AS a Moderator, I'd like to strongly suggest that the title be changed.

We just don't need the hassle, and this one could potentially be as bad
as the dwarf-tossing note.


Frank

    Hawk, some things are going a little too far....
    
    REK

    Frank, being a mod why don't you change it?
    
    REK

    RE: .9
    
    �...some things are going a little too far....
    
    Funny that the same sentiment was expressed to me over the phone last
    week in regards to some of the notes entered in this conference.
    
    I, too, vote to have the title changed....either by the author or
    via a moderator.
    
    Joann

    Change it, NOW!
    
    Lee

    
    Agreed.
    
    Please change the title Rick...or Frank.
    
    Cathy

The reason I didn't change it was because I wanted to give the author
a chance to do that.  It didn't occur to me that SHIRE is in a different
time zone, and that after about 11am or so, they're gone.

I'm not going into mega reasons why this was changed.  It didn't sound right
to me, so I changed it.  I don't think the other mods would disagree.

We push the limits in this conference a lot.  Some of it is okay, some
of it isn't okay.

I could give you all the Valuing Differences hoo-hah, but I won't.  Let's
just say that you can't come in here and use deragotory words about 
black people to Walt or Doc, you can't use derogatory words about
hispanics to Carlos, and you can't use derogatory terms about Lesbianism.
If you wanna think it, it's fine with me, but when it comes to printing
it in the file, that's a no-no.

Now, unless someone REALLY did have a tennis playing frog in Paris, 
(and from some Mark Twain stories I've read, frogs can do amazing things!)
let's get back to tennis talk.....

'Saw

    I got in here after the title was changed.  Based on the discussion, it
    was "the right thing to do" -- thank you.
    
    I'm watching.  Saw much of McEnroe's first round match, followed by
    Conners'.  (Listened to a lot of the rest of the coverage, and screwed
    up my VCR timer yesterday such that I *didn't* get to see yesterday's
    play :-(  ).  I'm amazed that Conners is still in it.  I'm sorry for
    Johnny Mac that he isn't.  It appears that Mac has his temper under
    much better control (finally), but that now he can't win.  I sincerely
    and honestly hope that he can put it all together to win another major
    championship and go out a winner.  Conners will go out a winner when he
    eventually quits regardless, simply because he's a pretty class act,
    recognizes that he's unlikely to ever make the finals again, but loves
    the play and gives it his best.
    
    A&W

    Has Becker ever won on clay?
    
    Mark.

    Kwak, 
       Wimbledon is played on grass, but I'm sure you knew that :^>
    
       I *think* I heard it mentioned that Becker has won once on
    clay. Monte Carlo, maybe?
    
    Bull~
    

RE:

> Has Becker ever won on clay?
    
>    Wimbledon, I'm pretty sure, I think, maybe...
    
	That's A GRASS tournament, Hawk!  'Bout the only one left...

RE:

> Has Becker ever won on clay?

	I'm not sure if Becker HAS won a clayfest, or if he will...

RE:
>   Conners will go out a winner when he
    eventually quits regardless, simply because he's a pretty class act,
    recognizes that he's unlikely to ever make the finals again, but loves
    the play and gives it his best.

	And isn't it great to see the 'old guy' (hell, almost MY age!) *^)
	still crankin' it up!  He's a grand example of someone who keeps
	playing because he enjoys what he does...

- Steve

	

Actually, I don't get into Cycles hardly at all...

I figured we push it a lot in here.  If we're gonna get taken down, I wanna
get taken down for some good ol woody-lacquerin'-sass-mouth-smash-mouth
pissin' and moanin...not for a thing like reptilian tennis...


8^)

I didn't know Becker won on grass.  Don't they test for stuff like that?????

    Squawk, the only thing I know right now is that you better have a fresh
    vat of either Guiness, Bass or John Courage on tap Monday.
    
    Mark.

� pissin' and moanin...not for a thing like reptilian tennis...
 
 Ummm, 'Saw, I think that should read "amphibian tennis" but the point
 is well made regardless.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Is the German Open (or championship, or whatever) on clay?  I think it
    is, and I think that's the one that Becker has won on that surface. 
    Somehow the French, of all the major tournaments, seems to have the
    most "weirdness" in it, of seedings not working, of upstarts getting to
    places they have no business being, etc., etc.  Makes it kind of fun to
    follow, and a challenge for the reporters as they try to come up with
    adequate excuses for what happens....
    
    
    About Conners......it feels weird to me to have him being the "grand
    old man" of tennis.  I started following the sport when he was the
    brash kid beating up on the established stars, sort of like where Chang
    and Agassi are now.  Why is it that the years ending in a "9" seem to
    be the stressful ones that mark the passage from being one "age" to
    another???
    
    A&W

Sorry Boys and Girls,

I couldn't change the title because

1. I wasn't here any more when the Thought Police arrived
2. I wouldn't have a clue how to change it - need technoweenie (now if THAT
   isn't namecalling/stereotyping I don't know what is!) advice on this. ;*{)

Anyway, it wasn't very exciting yesterday because Wilander got zapped by this
hot little French guy named Patrice name-always-escapes-me - poor Mats was
lucky to win the 4 or 5 games he did scrounge.

Ditto for Sampras, as Thierry Champion, who made it to the quarter finals
last year, didn't seem to miss a single shot to slaughter him, too. Wild.

Then Pat Cash lost to Chersakov (who beat McEnroe in 5 sets Tuesday) in 5 sets 
to top it all off.  So that's twice that Chersakov has won this week by 
standing at the baseline and waiting for the other, more impatient player to
make mistakes.

The highlight of the day for me was Seles (who has filled out most nicely)
played this South African girl who would beat any of us in arm wrestling!!
She was huge, but unfortunately cannot play, and was wiped out.  I see that
Seles is still marching around in that determined way...

A couple of other points:

Yeah, Becker has won on clay, but nothing spectacular - I think Monte Carlo
sounds right - no jet lag for him there as it's just down the street!!

There is no real German open as such (you'd have had a heart seizure at my
title if there was! ;*{)), but Koeln/Cologne has a big tournament.

rick

OOOOUUUCCCHHH!!!

Bob, you got me good!  You know, that bugged me all last night, because I knew
that frogs aren't reptiles, but I couldn't for the life of me think of
amphibian.  (Must not be getting enough sleep because I've been drawing
blanks lately).

Anyway, thanks for the correction 8^)


For my penance I'll have to be Jim on Wild Kingdom for the next week....

'Saw

    Interesting that this year's Quarterfinals include 3 Americans.
    
    Andre Agassi
    Michael Chang
    Stefan Edberg &
    Jim Courier (I believe)
    
    I would love to see Agassi take it after coming so close lasted(tm)
    year.

    Some semis already know.
    No surprises in the women tournament:
    
    		Seles - Sabatini
    		Graf - Sanchez
    
    One huge semi-final in the men tournament:
    
    		Agassi - Becker
    
    Other quarter-finals are played today.

>>    No surprises in the women tournament:
    
>>    		Seles - Sabatini
>>    		Graf - Sanchez
  
There were two pretty neat matches between Sabatini-Novotna and Martinez-Seles.
Novotna nearly beat la belle Gabriela - had two match balls in the 2nd but
blew them and started swearing (we think) and throwing her racket.
Martinez got blown away in 20 minutes in the 1st and then scared Seles big
time in the 2nd.

The ladies side is a total toss-up in my mind.

The mens side is about the same, although I hope, too, that Aghastli takes it
Joann.  He is playing like a dream and looks very confident and determined.
In spite of all the fuss about his hair, earrings, and whatever, he sure is a
nifty player, and quite the sport, too.

Just for the heck of it, I'll say Courier beats Edberg, then Stich or Davin.
Agassi takes Boom-Boom then Courier in 4 sets each.  For some reason, Courier
is my favourite.

Forgot to mention Connors, who really put on a show.  He had Chang beat like a
stepchild in spite of the back problems he had from the 3rd set on.  I dunno
if you saw it on US TV, but they had to carry him up the stairs to the dressing
rooms - brave performance to say the least.

rick

    I hope Becker thrashes the crap out of Agassi.  I sure wish Jimmy
    Connors was in his prime - so that he could whip Mr. Overhype's butt
    from one end of the globe to another.  Agassi has never won a grand
    slam event - in fact he's one few majors, yet he's overhyped, over
    endorsed, and has a new-modernistic yuppie attitude problem that makes
    me want to kick his face in.  
    
    Until Agassi proves he belongs by winning a grand slam, he cain take
    his "Attitude is everything" schtick and double fault with it.  I'd
    rather watch Becker, Chang, Connors, Edberg - guys who play the game
    with heart then watching him.
    
    JD

    Men's semi-finals
    
    		Agassi - Becker
    		Courier - Stich
    
    An all American-German affair.

re .31

Couldn't agree with you more, JD.

Agassi needs a good swift kick, hopefully right out of the limelight.  He's as
much a product of hype and Nike as he is of good tennis.  Although it might be 
just as much hype, Becker seems to play the nice guy in the pro tennis soap 
opera.

=Bob=

    We didn't see pics of Conners getting carried up the stairs, but we
    heard about it.  Jimmy himself is playing it down, somewhat.  I find
    myself wondering if he'll continue to try and play, or decide that his
    body has had it and retire. :-(
    
    Agassi seems to be growing up a little, and paying more attention to
    tennis and less to the image.  His various endorsement campaigns here
    in the US (I don't know if they go international) certainly haven't
    helped him a whole lot with a lot of the fans, but you don't get to be
    #4 in the world without a whole lot of real good play.
    
    I wouldn't say that Courier won yesterday, so much as Edberg lost. 
    Still, I expect Courier to beat Stich, who hasn't played a seeded
    player yet.  That section of the men's side has seen some really
    strange results.
    
    Question:  Does anyone know which order tomorrow's matches are being
    played in?  I want to record the Becker/Agassi match, as I expect it to
    be more interesting.  Both ESPN and NBC are broadcasting tomorrow, but
    because of my cable/VCR setup, I can only record one channel on the
    timer.
    
    A&W
    
    

    With the 1,2,3 and 5 seeds making it to the semifinals on the women's
    side, I wonder why they even bothered to play the tournament at all.
    
    John

>>  Question:  Does anyone know which order tomorrow's matches are being
>>  played in?  I want to record the Becker/Agassi match, as I expect it to
>>  be more interesting.  Both ESPN and NBC are broadcasting tomorrow, but
>>  because of my cable/VCR setup, I can only record one channel on the
>>  time

NBC is carrying the Becker-Agassi match live starting at 1000 EDT.  ESPN 
has the Courier-Stitch match starting at 1300 EDT.

>> but you don't get to be #4 in the world without a whole lot of real good play

This in one of the vagaries of the ATP ranking system.  They take your best 14
tournaments throughout the year as counting towards your ranking.  In addition,
if you do as well in the same tournament for two consecutive years, your
points don't change.  i.e., if you lose in the 1st round of the French two 
years running, then it won't affect your ranking all that much.  I remember one
year (1988 I think), when Agassi was ranked 6th, he won 4 tournaments, none of 
which was really major, but he was catapulted up the rankings because he had'nt
done anything the year before.  Same thing has happened now.  Agassi has yet
to win a Grand Slam title, has'nt done *anything* of significance throughout
his chequered career, and still has a #4 ranking.  Major flaw in the ranking
system of the ATP.  I still don't understand all the intricacies, but what I 
do know does'nt lead me to put much faith in the ranking system.

Sameer

    Women final
    
    		Seles	-	Sanchez
    
    
    Sorry folks,
    
    
    			ANDRE AGASSI just qualified for the finals
    
    
    Patrick

    .37�    			ANDRE AGASSI just qualified for the finals
    
    	He beat Becker?  Wow!
    
    B.A.
    

    Wow - does this mean that Andre might actually be in the position to
    win something??  Imagine the endorsements he'll get if he wins a major
    tourney.  Oh, what it will do to his attitude!!!  Who will he play?
    
    I still hope he gets his butt kicked.  Too bad he didn't face Connors -
    Ida loved to see Jimmy whip him - and show him you have to earn
    'attitude' and not get it written for you by Madison Avenue.
    
    JD

Well, well, it's all over with Sanchez folding against Seles and Courier
zapping Agassi.

Of course I'm thrilled:  Since Courier has exited under rather strange 
circumstances the last two years, I had been betting on him - relieved the
boys of quite a bit of lunch money around here what with him upsetting Edberg 
AND Agassi.  Seriously, though, he seems like a really nice guy in addition
to being a great player - he was laughing and joking even when it looked like
he was in trouble.  

Agassi, on the other hand, seems to have lost his sense of showmanship and
humour.  That together with Agassi's lukewarm congratulations for Courier make
me wonder if he's such a good buddy after all - maybe he's a great friend of
Courier's as long as he is winning and Courier aint.  

This puts Courier #4 ATP and Aghastly #5.

And Joann, Connors specifically said "See you next year!", but sadly I doubt
it.  I was scared big time that he was gonna snuff it right in the middle of 
the Chang match :^{(.

rick

    
    Rumour has it the Agassi will finally play Wimbledon.  He will conform
    to the white attire that Wimbledon requires.
    
    I understand that Agassi had the match pretty well in hand until a
    1 hr rain delay.  During the hour rain delay Courier got to talk to
    his coach and discuss the appropriate strategy to defeating Agassi.
    I guess it worked.
    
    I saw some of the Ladies final.  Sanchez was up 4 - 1 in the 2nd set
    when I left.  I was suprised that Seles came back and won the 2nd set
    and the match.
    
    \pjb

I didn't see the entire match, but it looked like it went right down to the wire.
It wasn't like Agassi didn't have it and was upset by a nobody, they looked 
pretty even to me.

Happily, Agassi was robbed of another chance to get his mug in front of the 
cameras, and be the "rebel" of tennis.

Gawd, I hate the guy.

=Bob=

> Happily, Agassi was robbed of another chance to get his mug in front of the 
> cameras, and be the "rebel" of tennis.
    
    Plus, if losing in another Grand Slam final wasn't enough, he did it to
    some dorky guy who looks like the Dave Wottle of tennis... 
    
    glenn
    

RE: .44   >>   the Dave Wottle of tennis...

... even WITHOUT the hat...!

    Thank you Jim Courier.  Thank you.  (BTW - he doesn't have the same
    profile as Wottle - Wottle had a beakier nose!)
    
    Andre in all white at Wimbleton?  Oh my.  Calling the Image Police,
    calling hte IMage PolIce....
    
    JD

    I can't believe that Agassi is caving in!! (Wimbledon)  I've always
    admired people who've challenged stupid rules.  (All white -- spare
    me, its the 90's for cryin' out loud)
    
    J

I agree!  The "all-white" BS should have been challenged YEARS ago (Billie
Jean, where were you THAT time?? (;^}) )...

Aggassi has been a PLEASURE to watch, IMO -- BECAUSE he kicks tradition-for-
its-own-sake so frequently!  It WAS fun to watch Courier yesterday, joking
and chuckling and generally having FUN out there; normally, that's what I've
enjoyed most about Andre:  his _panache_ (along with the fact that he
USUALLY was a MUCH better sport than Johnnie Mac ever dreamed of being...) --
he has added some color (in so many ways) to an otherwise becoming-increasingly
boring sport...  [Or do you really enjoy repeated baseline topspin volleys,
instead of go-get-'em angle-shots...?]

All in all, a fine match for all concerned...

- Steve

    
               RE: 47
                        Oh, excuuuuuze me, Ms. Neon!..........8-)
    
               Melster
    
    

    I watched the whole match.  [Well, actually, I saw the last set on tape
    delay, 'cause the genetic derivitive had graduation yesterday and that
    sorta took precedence :-) .]  It really looked like Agassi was going to
    run away with it, until there was the rain delay.  Courier came out
    playing completely differently after that point.  Good, enjoyable
    tennis from both men, in a very toughly fought match.
    
    I was home sick Friday and watched the semis as well.  I felt that
    Becker lost, while Courier won.  The difference between the two is
    subtle, but I have a feeling that in the end, the semis told the tale
    of who was better prepared for the final when it came to the final set.
    
    In a surprising way, I find myself agreeing with Connors/Bud Collins. 
    The pros, particularly the men but probably including the women, need
    to change some of the rules to encourage the shot-making prowess and
    discourage the pure power game.  Restrict the racket size perhaps, or
    the materials.  Other sports control the tools of the game very tightly
    -- look at hockey's rules about stick length and blade curvature, or
    baseball's rules about bat and ball composition, or squash rules on
    what the racket is.
    
    And irritating as Agassi's hype is, I still enjoy watching his matches
    over many other's.  Something about the way he approaches the game
    makes it fun to watch, leaves you wondering what's coming next.  I'm
    looking forward to how many different ways he finds to shake up the
    Brits at Wimbledon.  :-)
    
    A&W

RE: -1

A&W, I know what you mean about Becker, even though I was here, working away 
on Friday ;*).  A couple of months ago Sports Illustrated did a story on how 
he seems to come up with bad days at the worst time.  Interesting and 
unfortunate, since he ususally plays very entertaining tennis.

RE: Agassi

I guess my problem with the guy is that his flambouyance seems contrived to me.
He seems to be doing it for his immage, rather than his ideals.  Kinda reminds
me of Sugar Rim (tm).

=Bob=

 After the match yesterday, Bud Collins asked Agassi what I thought was a
 dumb question or at least the answer to it should have been obvious.
    
 Collins asked Agassi if perhaps concentration (or lack thereof, I suppose) 
 was the difference between his loss and Courier's win.
    
 I thought that was kinda silly ... You don't lose in five long sets over 4
 grueling hours because you didn't concentrate.  Yeah, I suppose you could
 say your head wasn't in the game if you got blown out in 3 quick ones but
 Agassi hung in there until the very bitter end.
 
 I saw two tennis fighters totally zeroed in and slugging away on every
 single point.  Courier got the clutch points when he needed them; Agassi
 didn't.  Simple enough.
 
 Bob Hunt
    

RE: .52

It's funny, Collins used to be witty, informative and provocative at
the same time -- in his writings as well as in his commentary...

Looks like Bud (aka Bob_Dunbar_who_died_for_your_gins) is starting to 
ease back and coast home...  Surprised he kept the edge as long as he
did in the face of the Enbergs/Stocktons/Schenkels/et al with their 
OWN vapidity...!

- Steve, who_knew_him_back_when_the_light_burned_much_brighter

Bud's always been an overblown Pompous *ss IMHO. More so in his writing than in
his TV personality. 

I think that Agassi has to learn he can't turn it on and off again at a moments
notice. If you've watched him play throughout his career you notice that he 
tends to "tank" a set once he's significantly behind and concerve his energy for
the next set. He tanked the 4th set yesterday after he was down 4-1. Then he
tried to turn it back up for the 5th only to fall short.

I think he's concentrating more on his tennis lately and it will show soon. I 
liked Couriers personality also. I thought it was a good match though I was
rooting for Agassi. The image is a little much but he's still a good player and
he's toned down his image a bit in the last year. As Madonna would say 
"controversy" is good if it makes people take an interest....


Metz

Sorry for the dumb question, but who is Wottle anyway? (my gawd whadda name!)

Re Bob H.:  I don't think it's a question of Agassi concentrating as much as
it is of being able to handle the pressure.  Many times Courier's shots were
just in and Agassi's just out, and Andre couldn't turn it around.  Courier
was much looser, had nothing to lose, and just kept playing his game.

Agassi has chosen to put a lot of pressure on himself with his attitude and
dress (I couldn't care less), and that means he always has all the eyes on
him.  That pressure must add up somehow...

Re Joann:  I believe that Agassi's ensemble for Wimbledon will be mostly white,
not all white.

rick

Who's Dave Wottle!!!!111

That's like asking who's Bob Lutz!!!  ;*)

Seriously, Dave Wottle was a U.S. runner in the 1972 Olympics in Munich.  He 
came from last place to win the 800 meter race in a very close finish.  He went 
to college at Bowling Green, and won a bunch of titles in the 800 and 1500.

The reason that people here are comparing him to Courrier is that he wore a 
white golf cap while he ran, and had something of a nerdy overall appearance.

=Bob=

Gee =thanks= =Bob=,

I don't remember hardly anything about the '72 Olympics - the PLO thing still
sticks out in my mind :^(.  Can't imagine what I was doing that year...

To me, Courier is this down home boy who looks like he should have a big chaw
of 'bacco in his cheek.  I wonder if he is originally from Florida or really
from Des Moines Iowa or Bimigi Minnesota or somewhere like that ;^{))

=rick=

I loved it when he got clay on his hat - almost looked like he was sweating 
blood.

==Bob

    To the best of my knowledge, he has never competed in a tournament
    where the playing surface was living green stuff :-)  
    
    In addition, he's stated in the past that he dislikes traveling and 
    living in Europe (I can sympathize, I love to travel in the US, but 
    have found my foreign trips far more stressful).  Since the accepted, 
    normal process is to play a couple of smaller tournaments in the UK 
    between the French and Wimbledon to get used to the change in surface, 
    he isn't likely to be a real happy camper for the next month.  I don't 
    expect him to do well at Wimbledon as a result.
    
    A&W

AWWW Poor Andre doesn't like going to Europe.  Poor guy, he actually has to play 
tennis to make his enormous sums of money.  I feel really bad for him.

Maybe we could buy him a new ear ring and he'll be happy.

=Bob=

>>    So, has Agassi ever played on grass?  I did, back in the '70s.  But, I
>>    won't get into that...
  
Hawk,

I think that's what I was doing during the '72 Olympics. :*)

HTH,

rick==

    I changed the title of this note to open it up for general tennis
    discussions.

    First there was Nolan Ryan, then came George Foreman.  Now there is
    Jimmy Connors.
    
    39-year old Connors advanced to the quarterfinals of the US Open
    yesterday after battling his opponent for over 4 hours.  Connors
    himself said that he is surprised that he is competing with and beating
    players 15 years younger than he is.  Jimmy was true to form as he
    blasted the line judge on a call during the match.
    
    Question:  In tennis, is the line in or out of bounds?

>>    Question:  In tennis, is the line in or out of bounds?

Depends on how badly you need the point!!  It's supposed to be in, however.
Any part of the ball touches the line - it's in.

Re Connors:

    I still can't stand this guy.  I don't like his "celebrating", or antics
    or his hair.  Anything.  And I can't believe he got all those people
    rooting for him.  He's just so *&^*ing "Uncool".   Granted that most
    the new players are emotionless stiffs, at least they don't make we
    switch the channel.

Missing Johnny Mac Bigtime,

Warren

    I watched the entire Connors/Krickstein match yesterday.  Absolutely
    amazing tennis.  Krickstein isn't getting enough credit for the effort
    that he put into it -- at least from the commentators and the crowd. 
    
    
    I happen to prefer Connors to Johnny Mac, but both of them play games
    that are awe-inspiring in their shot-making.  Very unlike the current
    crop of Sampras/Chang/Courier/Agassi who are far more interested in
    power than placement.
    
    The other outstanding match of the weekend, much to my surprise, was
    Edberg/Chang.  I don't normally find either of them particularly
    interesting to watch, but Sunday night's match was another one of those
    "how did he even *get* there, let alone hit the silly thing so well?"
    tours de force that is the best of tennis.
    
    A&W

>    I still can't stand this guy.  I don't like his "celebrating", or antics
>    or his hair.  Anything.  And I can't believe he got all those people
>    rooting for him.  He's just so *&^*ing "Uncool".   
    
>Missing Johnny Mac Bigtime,
    
    What's the difference?  
    
    I never liked Connors until I started watching his game a few years
    back.  Like any vet, he began using style and finesse rather than speed
    and power to win.  I began appreciating him then and now I think he's
    pretty cool.  
    
    I loved when CBS left the microphone on yesterday after the official
    made that terrible reversal call.  "I've got my 39 year old ass out
    here running around and you're doing stuff like that to me?!?"  For the
    most part, I would have acted the same way.  
    
    	--dan'l

    There was always a big, big difference between Connors and Mac. 
    Connors was never as bad as Mac was with his antics.  Connors was more
    in the Ille Natase ilk.  He used the arguing to get himself up for the
    rest of the match.  Mac was different.  His temper took oer.
    
    I've always been a Jimmy Connors fan.  Why?  I've never seen the guy
    give up.  Never.  He never quit.  He played his heart out.  He's good
    for tennis.  If Agasse had 1/1000000000000 the heart or the guts that
    Jimmy Connors has, he'd be worthy mentioning him as a tennis 'star' -=
    instead of an overblown, pampered baby on an ego trip.
    
    Connors has had 2 great matches this tourney - vs. Pat McEnroe and vs.
    Krickstein yesterday.
    
    He's rekindled my interest in tennis - an interest that was great
    during the Borg/Macenroe/Connors heyday, but has been tempered by the
    automatins playing the game - or by the image is everything crowd.
    
    GO Jimmy, thanks for a great tourney so far!
    
    JD

More on Jimbo:

Re. the last couple who think Conners is a really neat guy:

   I just can't stand the way he celebrates after big points.  All that two
   fisted pumping and stuff.  I just think he's a bad sport.  When he win's
   he's a showoff.  When he loses, he used to go into a funk and skip press
   conferencse and stuff - not sure if he's still that much of baby.  Maybe
   he's finally matured.  And EVERY point in the Krickstein match when Aaron
   was serving, Jimbo would walk around and wipe himself and play with his
   strings in his lovely yellow racket. I think Krickstein showed great 
   restraint in not going over and smashing his racket upside Connors head.

   Now, Johnny Mac was terrible on the court, but he didn't over-celebrate
   when he won and cry and skip town when he lost.  And Johnny Mac seems to
   have a sense of humor.  Connors forces some jokes but doesn't make it.
   It's like comparing David Lettermain to Johnny Carson.

   I'd have to put Connors up there with people like Ricky Henderson and Carl
   Lewis as the biggest babies of SPORTSdom.

Warren
   

    >You'd never see Connors and McEnroe applaud their
>    opponent during a match...
    
    Gawd, I hope not.  Nothing gets my goat more than watching someone
    congratulate a_opponent during a match or game.  Or helping an opponent
    off the field after a hit.  Save it for when the game is over.
    
    "Show my a good loser, and I'll show you a loser."
    
    Connors roolz!

       Yeah, Markie's right. Martina does that 'clap, clap' stuff all the
    time too.
                                  Denny

    Warren -
    
    How can you think Johnny Mac had a sense of humor?  He used to throw
    baby tantrums, yell, scream, hold his breath til turning purple, cuss,
    demean.  He let emotions get the better of him.  It was what kept him
    from being the greatest ever - the inability to handle his temper.
    
    Connors changed his game around at a late age to try to compensate for
    the newer power game.  
    
    I like the way he shows emotions, pumping fists, playing to the crowd -
    afterall, isn't the crowed there to see good tennis and be entertained?
    
    ANd if Krickstein was bothered about Connors slowing the pace - a good
    ploy for a 39 year old, why didn't he DO something about it.  He was 15
    years younger, and had Connors on the ropes a few times and Connors
    gutted his way out.
    
    Perhaps if Johnny Mac hadn't up and quit like he did, he'd be in
    Jimmy's shoes now.  But he was a quitter.
    
    As for calling Carl Lewis a 'crybaby' - I can't understand how you
    could say that - except if you've only seen Carl a few times in your
    life.  He's not the most emotional guy - but he's the best we've ever
    seen.  He has constantly improved himself, and has improved those
    around him - see Burrell, Mitchel, DeLoatch, etc..
    
    Agree on Rickey Henderson, though!
    
    

    The liner that Connors hit in the tie breaker was called in by the line
    judge.  Krikstein questioned him and the umpire (or whatever you call
    the guy in the chair) overruled the linesman.  There is no way he had a
    better view from across the court and at that angle.  
    
    Connors had every right to complain about that call until the cows came
    home.  It could have cost him the whole match and when those matches
    are worth as much as they are, I bet there's not one of us who would
    have let it slide either. 
    
    	--dan'l

    Antics such as those exhibited by Connors and McEnroe are what turn me
    off about tennis regardless of how well they play.  It's one of the
    reasons why I applaud the anti-celebration rules of the NFL and why
    I've become a rugby fan.  In rugby, there's no place for that crap.
    
    John

    Ninj, the *real* reason you have disdain for on-field celebrations is
    that the Pats never have an opportunity to do so.
    
    ;^0.
    
    Mark.

>>             <<< Note 159.65 by CNTROL::MACNEAL "ruck `n' roll" >>>

>>    I changed the title of this note to open it up for general tennis
>>    discussions.
 
Rats.

I'd even thought of a non-racist title for the new topic I was gonna 
put in this morning:

"U.S. Open Tennis at Flushing Toilets"

rick

PS: Connors has gonads the size of grapefruits to be carrying on like that at
    his age.  And he's no suck - he always congratulates his opponents when he
    loses as well as when he wins.

    
     Connors, MacEnroe and Agassi should be locked in a room and forced to 
    watch Brian Bosworth and Marvin Hagler movies while Rex Reed gives a 
    running commentary.

    You guys dont seem to get it, Professional sports are part of the
    entertainment field weather you believe it or not.  Of course nothing
    is as fixed and cheorographed like Wresslin but to make it you either
    have to be GREAT or have a GIMMIC.  Now Johnny Mac had them both,
    people paid $$$$ to see johnny Mac not only play GREAT but also deep
    down wanted to see him strut his stuff (so to speak).  Conners is the
    same way they know how to fill the stands and bring in the $$$$ thats
    why they get the endorsment $$$ as well.. Agassi is trying to build
    the same sort of image, rebal !!! This will sell tickets and will bring
    in the endorsment money, this happens in all sports not just tennis.
    
    This is the way it works, do you really think madona has the best voice
    of any female vocalist....  If so try listening to more music.  But she
    is either brilliant or has great trainers/producers/agents.  She has
    built an Image that is loved by the young and Teenage girls of the
    WORLD... Were talking BIG $$$$$$$.
    
    One other great example of a Gimmic is TWISTED SISTER, did you know
    that 1/2 the original group were in the middle to late 40's and were
    a Country Western Band for Years and Years.....Now there Millionears.
    
    							M_A_Brooks

    >>  Millionears
    
          Shhh!!!!!    They might hear youuu!
    
    
    ;*)
    
    Kev
    

    
    Johnny Mac is making a lot of noise that he's a wanna be for
    
    appointment to the US Olympic Tennis Team.  He's said that
    
    since he's faithfully represented the US on the Davis Cup team for 
    
    so long that they should reward him by giving him a slot even if he's
    
    not one of the best players. 
    
    He also said that he expects to retire in 'bout 2 years and since 
    
    the Olympic Gold is the only real award which has eluded him, it would 
    
    be really nice for him to win at the twilight of his career.
    
    Mac's biggest problem is convincing the Olympic folks that he also
    
    wants to bring his kid and wife into the Olympic village and have them 
    
    stay with him.
    
    I wonder if he wants free room and board for them too?  Pretty big
    
    filberts but hey, the guy *IS* from New York!
    
    Kev
    

    
     Lest it go unmentioned Jennifer Capriati played excellently last
    night in defeating the eminently babe-ticious Gabriela Sabatini. Her
    game is really maturing rapidly although from time to time she lets
    her youth show.
    
     

    re .81 and .86
    Agagme's name should not be mentioned in the same sentence fragment as
    Connors and Johnny Mac - because Johnny Mac and Connors have real
    talent, not just gimmick, and have the champeenships from Wimbleton, US
    Open, etc., to prove it.  Aggassi has nothing but commercials and a
    good agent.
    
    Credit Jimmy Connors and Chris Evert, respectively, for the rebirth of
    the popularity of tennis.  Every Jennifer Capriati out there should say
    a prayer to Chrissie every night.  Every Chang and Krickstein and even
    Aggagme should say a prayer to Jimmy C and also to Johnny Mac.  They
    raised US tennis back into the consciousness of the public. 
    
    Connors is a fierce competitor, yet most of his 'rivals' respect him
    and even 'like' him.  Heck, Krickstein and Connors are very good
    friends.   
    
    Re Hawk:  So, Connors is playing up the age thang.  Big deal.  He's
    winning and packing the crowds in.  Nothing wrong with that.  He's not
    playing 'patsies' or in easy tourneys - he's playing the best tourneys
    and taking on everyone.  Heck, he's rated something like #135 in the
    world right now - so this is an achievement.  If some 19 year old
    unknown was in the quarterfinals, folks would be ga-ga over him. 
    
    re Kev
    
    I heard the Johnny Mac thang.  I think one of the criteria for making
    the US squad is that you've played in the Davis cup competition.
    
    Johnny Mac (and incidently, Jimmy Connors) played Davis Cup matches
    even when he was #1 in the world.  He always played for the US, when
    others declined because it didnt' pay, no endorsement money, not a lot
    of coverage, etc...   I've always respected him for that.
    
    One thing that slips everyone's mind is that Jimmy Mac was one of the
    best doubles players in the world.  He has a few Wimbleton Double's
    champeenships to go with his singles titles.   Davis Cup and Doubles -
    he can play team-oriented and let his ego take a back seat...
    
    re .82
    
    Brooks - ah yes gimmicks, like shoes and tongue's sticking out, shaved
    haids.  Sounds like someone from Chicago.
    
    JD

    JD,
    
    I'm not bashing Johnnie Mac for the Davis Cup remarks.  Didn't 
    
    intend it to be interpreted that way.  Sorry if I wasn't clear.
    
    I also admired (and still do) Mac for his "nationalistic pride" and
    
    willingness to play on the Davis team without compensation et cetera.
    
    I just got a kick out of the "tone" of his voice "since I did so and
    
    so, you should feel [sic] obligated to do this and that".  As you
    
    (should) know, I really won't be following tennis that much @the games.
    
    T & F baby!!!!!
    
    Kev
    

    Kev -
    
    Hey, He is a nEw Yawker, as you said, so it doesn't surprise me.
    
    JD

    Not to detract from Jimmy's performance vs. Krickstein (sp) but I
    thought the referee let him get away with far too much crap.  Connors
    was playing to the crowd and the camera and showing up the referee. 
    This should not be tolerated in any professional sport.  I realize that
    to give him a warning (I don't think one was given) would have probably
    incited the crowd but enough is enough.  Nobody should be allowed to
    call a referee names, antagonize or intimidate them (finger pointing
    after a winning a point).  I would like to see Connors penalized and
    wouldn't be surprised if he is fined for his antics, however, he should
    have been given a warning, followed by a point penalty if the warning
    was not heeded.  That would have shut him up quickly, believe me.  I
    think the referee lost control.
    
    Regarding the match, I thought it was great, but only because of the
    closeness.  I wasn't that impressed with either players' level of play. 
    I don't know the stats but it seemed like there were alot of unforced
    errors by both players.
    
    Prediction: Courier wins it all on the mens side.
    Hope: Capriati wins the womens final...but she probably won't make it
    by Seles.

    I thought Jennifer played real well and took it to Sabatini.  Gabriela
    commented that she didn't have the opportunities to come to the net. 
    Jennifer had plenty but only came in on a few.   If Jennifer ever gets
    a net game she will be the player to beat.  Her serve, ground strokes
    and defensive game are excellent.  Good luck, though, against Seles.

    
    Wally (1/2 of WVBF's morning team of Lorin and Wally) had this to
    
    say about Jenny's play lasted(tm) night,
    
    "I watched a few minutes on ESPN and BOY DO I LOVE THE WAY SHE
    
    SWEATS!!!"
    
    seriously rollward,
    
    Kev
    
    

 Jimmy Connors knows how to work a New York tennis crowd.    He's got
 them eating out of his hand.
 
 New Yorkers are suckers for the loud-mouth, showboating, ill-tempered, 
 middle-aged underdog.
 
 Bob Hunt

    ...he might have had them 'eating out of his hand' but he also won.
                                         Denny

 �   ...he might have had them 'eating out of his hand' but he also won.
 
 Sure, he did.  Aaron Krickstein never had a chance.
 
 Connors is an entertaining show, no doubt about it.   But Jimmy knows
 exactly how to get a big city mob behind him and thus gain the mental
 edge.   And it's a total effort, too.   He knows how to get the press
 and the tube to focus on him.  He knows just how far to push an
 umpire.    He knows how to shake his fists at the crowd at just the
 right moment after just the right shot.
 
 He's a master showman.   Put the two of them on a court in the middle
 of a corn field in Iowa and Krickstein (or any other 24 year old
 tennis pro) kicks his butt.   Put them on the tube in New York and
 Connors walks on water.
 
 It's great theater but it's hardly great tennis.
 
 Bob Hunt

       How did the adience watching on the tube and the commentators on CBS
    have anything to do with the win? I could jump up and down like a
    madman in my livingroom and I don't think Connors woulda heard me.
    Pat Summersault coulda blown him kisses all day and Jimmy probably
    wouldn'ta seen them.
                                        Denny

    re .96  I agree wholeheartedly.
    
    re .97  You missed the point. What Connors has done is essentially he
            has created a homefield advantage for himself. The crowd is on
            his side which would be totally acceptable if he had won them
            over with his play rather than his boorish antics.
    
    re. .?  You cannot equate Michael Jordan's on court behavior with that
            of Connors. Did you hear Connors tell the judge to kiss him
            before he did that to him again ? Are you equating Jordan
            sticking his tongue out with cheap one-liners ?
       
    

Krickstein has never beaten Connors, in an Iowa cornfield or anywhere
else.

the kid self-destructed as much as the crowd having anything to do with it...

    You can be a good Tennis player with all the athletic ability to
    win it all but You will never be great without the mental aspect
    as well.  You have to be able to concentrate on what your doing
    and not think about weather the crowd likes or dislikes you.  And
    note that I said Agassi is trying to do the same, he lacks the heart
    I believe he has the athletic ability to be great but is in it too
    much for the money.  Im waiting for agassi to do a commercial with the
    swedish bikini team !!!!   A Conners VS Macenroe would have been incred
    able.
    							M_Air_Brooks
    And Jordan does not rely on gimmicks, slam dunks are part of the
    game.  Now people who constantly fack falling down on ther a$$ in
    attempt to get a foul like ___ (Insert 1/2 of detroits players)
    thats a gimmic...

>  the kid self-destructed as much as the crowd having anything to do with it...

    You got that right, 'Saw.   He blew it, in a big way.

    Connors won the crowd over from play, not by antics.  He did it first
    vs. Patrick McEnroe, when he was down 2-0 and seemingly out of it, but
    rallied to win - and he was down to Krickstein, seemingly lost, and
    came back.  That's damn good tennis, both were great matches to watch,
    and the crowd didn't get into it cuz of 'antics'.
    
    Boy, hasn't Mikey turned into a real God.  Ya can't criticize him at
    all, or the WannaBeLikers (TM) go into a tizzy.  heck, I havent' even
    mentioned his crybabing over Isiah and the Olympics - his still
    brooding about the alledged freeze out years ago at an all-star game.
    
    Wah, Wah, Wah, poor Mikey.
    
    JD

    I'll say this.  In all my years of reading this file, I've never seen
    response to tennis like this.  Someone, somewhere, must be doing
    something right to get folks watching!
    
    Like I said, I watched the whole match.  Connors had the crowd with him
    as he came onto the court, but lost their support during the first set
    (which he lost).  The crowd support came back during the second set,
    but only in a lukewarm way.  He didn't really get full crowd support
    behind him until the fifth set.  Krickstein played a great game, and
    was in it until the last few points.  I keep going back to the game
    that went to 7 or 8 deuces - the one where Krickstein broke a blister
    on his racket hand - the one that Connors eventually broke Krickstein - 
    the one that took them past the 4 hour mark...that was where the match
    was won.  It was a war.  It was emotional.  And it was 20K or so vs. 1.
    
    I'm also amazed that Jimmy didn't get a warning.  A warning he could
    have lived with, and probably would have backed down after getting one. 
    But I could also see the intensity of his play pick up after the
    original tirade.  The "antics" seem less calculated to me than those of
    Agagme (tm that puppy - it's great) his first year on the tour.  They
    were more an emotional response to the crowd and the moment.  And it's
    part of what makes Connors (or MacEnroe or Becker) fun to watch.  Lots
    more fun than an Edberg/Lendl match would be, although the quality of
    the tennis is likely to be similar.  Actually, Chang showed quite a bit
    of emotion in his match against Edberg, too.
    
    On Johnny Mac and the Olympics.  I'd take a wait-and-see attitude,
    based on how he does the rest of this year and early next.  His heart
    isn't in the tennis at the moment, and it shows in his play.  But his
    contributions to US tennis have been outstanding over the years, and
    that certainly deserves to be a consideration.  Is he on this year's
    Davis Cup team, or is it Chang, Agassi, who?
    
    A&W

    
    re .103  I wasn't defending MJ. All I said was that you couldn't com-
            pare his on court antics to those of tennis' answer to Hulk
            Hogan. Obviously you've got a hair across about MJ.
    
    re .104  I think the fact that there is so much activity in this file
            due to Connors' actions is exactly what is wrong with his be-
            havior. Everyone is so caught up in his sophmoric BS that no-
            body mentions that Capriati played brilliantly or that Courier
            vs. Sampras promises to be a monster match. No better to talk
            about the old beating someone he's only beaten five times
            before.

    	I can't believe all this discussion about a sport that ranks
    above soccer on the Wuss-O-Meter!
    
    				/Don

    
    re .105
    
    Lessee, Ol Air slammajams, tongue sticking out, pumps his fists to the
    crowd, crowd goes crazy.  Ol Jimmy charges the net, volleys, and hits a
    winner, pumps his fists to the crowd, crowd goes crazy.   But one is a
    God, the other is a fake.  I understand.
    
    As for the rest of the action, I hope Seles beats Capriati, but I'd
    like to see Seles lose in the finals.
    
    Sempras will win.
    
    Doubles has had some good matches too.
    
    JD

    re. 106
    
    It was nice to see Courier trash Enberg back in June (little guy
    beating on the big guy), but I agree watching Tennis is like watching
    SquareDancingRugby(tm).  8^)
    
    
    Conan
    

    
    >>It was nice to see Courier trash Enberg back in June (little guy
    >>beating on the big guy), but I agree watching Tennis is like watching
    >>SquareDancingRugby(tm).  8^)
    
    
    Hey, When did Dick Enberg give up announcing sports and take up playing
    tennis???????????????
    
    
    JaKe
    

    You're quick JaKe, very quick!
    
    Conan
    

I still can't stand him! I would say that in a rating of the most obnoxious
people in the world, in order, I'd have to go with:

	1. James Scoot (Jimbo-fist pump) Connors
	2. Sammy Hagar
	3. Sammy Hagar
	4. Sammy Hagar
	5. Sammy Hagar

	6. Big tie between the rest of humanity

Warren

    
    Warren,
    
    You are entitled to your opinion, in keeping with the kindler and
    
    gentler spirit of the reborn ::LDUC philosophy but I strongly disagree
    
    that Jimbo is obnoxious.  Jimbo clearly knew all through the match that
    
    HE was in charge and was gonna win.  I call that confidence. 
    
    Confidence is not, however, enough to guarranty a victory. He still
    
    had to go out and win - which he did quite well.  He was pumped up,
    
    in control of himself and had everything in perspective.  Clearly
    
    he was enjoying himself as was indicated by the verbal comments
    
    he kept making to Vitas (who, btw went to my HS alma mater -
    
    Archbishop Molloy!).  Being 39 years old certainly adds a certain
    
    amount of perspective to whatever you endeavor to do.  That's
    
    how I saw his performance.
    
    He may be a bit of a ham and hot dog but he still had to go
    
    mano-a-mano.  (OK so there were 20,000+ people rooting for him
    
    making it 20,001 to 3 which slightly modified the mano-a-mano
    
    balance  ;^))
    
    My $0.2
    
    Kev
     

Jimbo is an actor.  Let's not forget it.  The real Jimbo was seen circa 1977
when he was hammered in the Finals against G.Vilas and stomped off the court
in quite a pout and drove away a few minutes later.

The current Jimbo is like the president - being advised on how he should act
so he can please his adoring public.  Someone mentioned a few back about
Jimbo playing Krickstein in a cornfield in Iowa.  First of all, Jimbo
wouldn't show up.  And if he did, he'd be pouting big time.

Re. Vitas G.

In the mid-70's Vitas was on the Team Tennis Pittsburgh Triangles and I used
to go to the matches.  He was great.  He has his owned chearing section called
the G-Men. He had a great attidute, too.  Jimbo played for another team (Balmer
I believe) and it was great because you could boo the sh!t out of him. Jimbo
was gone after one year - couldn't handle the non-worship I guess.

Warren

>
>Jimbo is an actor.  Let's not forget it.  The real Jimbo was seen circa 1977
>when he was hammered in the Finals against G.Vilas and stomped off the court
>in quite a pout and drove away a few minutes later.

Yeah, right.  
The guy's a tennis player, who has a style that ticks you off.  Bottom
line, he still gets it done.  When he started he was by far and away
the premier tennis player, and it's just been the last few years
that the rest of the pack has caught up.

You can't attack the man's tennis ability, so you attack his personality.


>The current Jimbo is like the president - being advised on how he should act
>so he can please his adoring public.  Someone mentioned a few back about
>Jimbo playing Krickstein in a cornfield in Iowa.  First of all, Jimbo
>wouldn't show up.  And if he did, he'd be pouting big time.

Wrong again.  

It's like I'm playing in the biggest match so far in the biggest tournament
of the year, and I'm gonna worry about my popularity rating?  Earth to
Warren, Earth to Warren....  

That's a ridiculous as me worry about which way my collar is supposed
to go on my rugby jersey before the Boston game....

Connors loves tennis, he loves playing, and he loves pleasing the crowd.
He'd show up to play in Iowa, and he'd beat Krickstein again, because the
kid has a mental block when it comes to Connors...


And I don't even like tennis that much.  
(I'd rather see them use the rackets on each other....)


'Saw

    Quote from John MAcenroe on Connors:
    
    "I wish I could love the game as much as he does."
    
    that sums it all up.   Connors has said that he loves the role he's in
    now.  He *knows* he's not one of the top players anymore (ranked 174 in
    the world) - but that he loves getting the chance to play spoiler in
    tourneys - just like the guys who played spoiler to him when he was on
    top.
    
    Who advises COnnors to act like he does, Warren?  Do you think someone
    choreographs his matches (Jim, go down 0-2 to Mac, then 0-3 in third
    set, 0-40 in game - then turn it on and come back!)
    
    He's having FUN out there.  FUN!  Its great to see.  IN his heyday, he
    didn't have as much fun due to PRESSURE.  He was expected to make the
    finals of all tourneys.  
    
    SI has a good piece on him and Agagme(TM) - Andre should read it and
    learn something.
    
    His competitors like him, and they respect him.  That should say
    something.
    
    JD

    Well said, JD.
    
    Mark.

 In his heart-pounding, fist-pumping, crowd-yelling, marathon match of
 the ages against Aaron Krickstein, Jimmy Connors had 7 double faults,
 106 unforced errors, and failed to convert on 19 break points.
 
 Great drama ???   Yes.    Great tennis ???   No.
 
 Bob Hunt

    JD,
    I read that article on Agagme. But I'm not sure who loves himself more,
    Agagme or the writer, Curry Kirkpatrick. Isn't Kirkpatrick the one
    who adores UNC BBall?  That little Gobshite
    
    BTW, I like Connors, he's got cojones
    
    MikeL
    

> And I don't even like tennis that much.  
> (I'd rather see them use the rackets on each other....)
>
>
>'Saw

Well I love tennis.  I play tennis all the time.  I played in high school.
I tried to play in college but the Penn coach said "Have you thought about
maybe trying out for the squash team".  So, I can clearly recognize that Jimbo
is a great player.  I think he has the best return of serve of all time.
The ball comes back faster than the fricking serve sometimes.  Maybe that's
why he gets me so p.o.'ed because I enjoy watching good tennis and his
personality just ruins for me.

> You can't attack the man's tennis ability, so you attack his personality.

So, you're right 'Saw.  Do you have his number?  I'd like to invite him over for
a game.  Maybe he could bring his wife.

Warren

    
     Since we seem bent on flogging this equine cadaver into dust let me 
    chip in my $.02.
    
     Like the previous noter I enjoy tennis. I don't enjoy watching people
    who fake getting hit in the groin for a cheap laugh or who talk to
    spectators and announcers while the game is being played. I don't enjoy
    false, contrived displays of emotion whose only aim is to gain crowd 
    support. I don't enjoy seventy-odd trips to the towel in the course
    of a match. If I enjoyed those things maybe I'd like Connors but I
    don't, I like tennis.
    

  JC became the world's best tennis player when an aging Ken Rosewall was
  getting ready for retirement.

  JC was widely regarded as the world's best tennis player when a young 18
  year old called Bjorn Borg started to raise some eyebrows.

  JC was still fighting for and winning championship's when Borg was in his 
  prime. 

  JC was still one the favorites when a young 18 year old called John Macenroe
  emerged on the tennis sceen. He was supposed to be the next American 
  champion to replace JC.

  Borg is now long gone. Mac's game is no where near the level it was in
  the early 80's. All of the other great champions of the 70's and early 80's
  who played against Connor's for Grand Slam titles are long gone (Guilermo 
  Vilas, Arthur Ashe etc). Even Boris Becker has talked about retirement
  while JC makes the semi's in a Grand Slam tournament and is talking about 
  getting ready for his next match.

  JC never had a big serve in a game which has been dominated by players
  with great serves for the last 20 years. But JC did have the best return 
  of serve the game has ever seen plus one of the best backhands and a unique 
  shot called the sky hook. The greatest tennis shot I've ever seen came
  from Connor's rackett against Panatta in the US Open in 1978(?) when Connor's
  was close to being beaten. 

  Last I heard, JC had a record 105 professional singles titles. He's won
  the US Open on grass, clay and hard surfaces. 

  Sure he's been an ass at times like the time Vilas beat him in the US
  Open and he stormed off the court refusing to talk to the press or 
  stay for the award ceremony. Does anybody else remember the time in the
  US Clay court championship against Jose Higueris when Hiqueris asked the
  linesman to look at the ball mark and Jimmy ran over and walked all over
  the mark ? Against Kricksteen, I don't blame him for being upset at the
  umpire but he did carry on for far too long.

  Some people say he doesn't play great tennis anymore. But the US Open is
  one of the world's most cherished tournament's with 128 of the World's 
  best trying their hardest to win it. You don't make it to the Semi's
  by playing bad tennis. 

  All in all, in the 20 plus year's I've watch tennis, I've never enjoyed
  watching anybody play more than JC. You can always bet your last dollar
  that he always plays to win and will never give up. Everytime he steps
  on the court you know that he loves paying tennis. 

					Keith

    Maybe some people in here dont realize this but for one some people
    sweat more than others....Im serious here and that is why some people
    need more trips to the towel.  I realize that Conners needs those 25
    seconds in between points to rest but he is 39years old give the guy
    a break.  If the rule says 25 seconds thats what he should be allowed
    to take.  I dont care if he takes his 25seconds in between each and
    every point the rules are there for a reason.  NOW MORE IMPORTANTLY
    
    What is wrong with Sammy Hagar (warren).  Hes a great performer, In
    case you have never seen his live act (LIVE).  I saw him in concert
    4 times as Sammy Hagar and twice with Van halen.  At this point in time
    hes one of the very few ROCK performers left that I will shell out the
    big BUCKS to see live.  If you ever listen to his early solo albums 
    youd find many, many, many guitar solo's that are very good and his
    voice was incrediable when he was younger.  I enjoyed him much more
    when he was on his own (before every knew who he was).  But what can
    you do.  Dont judge him on just his music in the 80's and 90's he like
    most performers change with the times alot of his earlier music is
    excellant.
    						M_Air_Brooks

I sweat a lot (ask lufay) and I understand why JC goes to the towel....

    
     The coroner has officially certified that this horse is indeed dead.
    In fact it is not merely dead it is truly and sincerely dead or however
    that line from the Wizard of Oz goes. Next subject. Let's here some
    predictions for the weekend.

Re. .123

Wow, I finally hooked a Sammy Hagar fan. Took almost all day.

Well I'll tell ya, I was flipping around lasted night between the Jimbo
Connors "towel-off, check-strings, win-point, celebrate-with-pumped fists-
whilst-producing-sweat, repeat"  and the eMtv stuff and it must be because
I was already irrated and it must be because I caught Sammy at a wrong moment.
(like during this decade).  So, I used to like him too.  I was just checking
for life.

Warren

    I have a couple of VIntage Hagar Cuts on 2 Montrose Albums I have,
    I believe Montrose was the first band he was in I have never come
    across anything earlier that that (early 70's)  There are about 4 or 5
    real good songs on these tapes but He wasnt the lead singer on them..
    
    Conners will need more than a miracle to win on saturday but Ill be
    rooting for him.
    								M_A_Brooks

 I saw Sammy Hagar in 1979 in Charlottesville.  He opened for Boston
 at a concert in University Hall.   
 
 We all went to see Boston and instead saw Hagar absolutely own the
 night.   He blew them away.   You could see that Boston was almost
 embarassed to take the stage after Hagar had finished.
 
 Jimmy Connors is a great tennis player.  If tennis had a Hall Of
 Fame, he'd already be in it.   What he's doing right now, though, is
 playing at a very high level of inspiration.   He's not playing great
 tennis; he's' playing highly *inspired* tennis.   
 
 Sometimes we get swept up in the manufactured drama and confuse
 inspiration with greatness.   Bjorn Borg, who quit too early in my
 opinion, never needed this kind of crowd-pleasing inspiration to play
 great tennis.
 
 There *is* a difference.   And it's no sin to play inspired tennis if
 you can't play great tennis anymore.   Connors is great theater right
 now.   He is *not* great tennis right now.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Great tennis or inspired tennis.  Either way it could earn Connors
    another champeenship, and that's all that counts, right SPORTS_fans?
    
    I believe there is a tennis HoF and that it resides in Newport, RI.

> Jimmy Connors is a great tennis player.  If tennis had a Hall Of
> Fame, he'd already be in it.   What he's doing right now, though, is
> playing at a very high level of inspiration.   He's not playing great
> tennis; he's' playing highly *inspired* tennis.   
    
    First, tennis most definitely *does* have a HoF.  It's in Newport, RI.
    
    Second, I don't agree with your distinction between inspired tennis and
    great tennis.  Your stats about 100+ forced errors and 7 double faults
    prove nothing.  7 double faults in a 5 set match is very, very few. 
    And when you're looking at two (2) baseliners like Krickstein and
    Connors, almost *every* point is going to involve an "unforced" error.
    
    Jimbo is playing tennis at a very high level indeed, although it's
    worth pointing out he's enjoyed a favorable draw to this point.  (That
    will end on Saturday, when he faces Courier ...)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 I stand corrected on the Tennis Hall Of Fame datapoint.   I'm sure
 it's one of the more lovely tourist attractions in Newport, RI.
   
 As for my evaluation of Jimmy Connors' current run thru the US Open,
 I believe it could stand up to scrutiny.    He's playing on guts and
 emotion and if wins he will have written a great sports story.
 
 But, he's not playing *technically* great tennis.  Usually, though
 not always, that is what will win a championship like the US Open.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Jimmy Connors has made a career playing on 'guts and emotion'.  What
    you're seeing in this years Open is vintage Connors.  His serve is
    relatively average; his baseline game is strong; his determination, guts,
    and grit is unparalleled.  
    
    Connors is playing 'technically' as well as he's ever played in his
    career, so there's no reason to start drawing the distinction at this
    point.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Anyone have Krickstein's stats from Monday's game handy?  I believe
    that his stats and Connors' stats will be very, very close to even.
    
    I normally "listen" to sports on the tube, and only watch the replays
    of the outstanding stuff.  Last night's game, I got a lot done on my
    needlework.  Monday afternoon I got very little done.  (Call it
    the A&W rating scale.)  That says to me that last night's game wasn't 
    that great, and Monday's was.
    
    I don't expect that Connors will beat Courier, although he may.  But it
    has been some wonderful, interesting, emotional sport that I've watched
    over the last two weeks.  And personally, I'd rather have the emotion
    than technical brilliance robotically executed.
    
    A&W  

 Soup knows hype.  That much we all know.
 
 Bob Hunt

    i think wee cud get BoB cigar and Jon Macnrow even up for Jimy Corners
    and Samy Hagger cuz you are too BLam!!1
    
    CaSo
    

    Over the weekend, someone I know was looking for a copy of the Connors/
    Krickstein match on videotape.  If anyone has such an animal and is
    willing to loan it out, could you please send me mail at AITE::WASKOM?
    
    Many thanks.
    
    A&W 

Squ�ck

Smart observation.

Didja notice how Monica has fluffed up in the Titles dept. in the last year.

I reckon she's 10 times cuter than Steffi even if she does look like a rat
and screams like that Asst. Sheriff's nymphomania wife in Ft. Lauderdale 
when she shoots.

HTH,

rick

Seles looks hideous.  I wouldn't diddle her with YOUR diddler...

First, I can't stand the way she grunts.  It sounds to me like she's
sitting one stall over when she does that.

Steffi is hot (except for the nose).  Gabriella it wicked hot too.

Monica is NOT a babe, and she wouldn't give a dog a bone (as Wayne would
say).....

'Saw

    
    	Geez 'Saw, Monica has always spoken well of you.  :^)
    
    	Claybone

'Saw,

Some interesting comments from you pal:

In .114 when in response to nasty remarks about Jimbo (jimbo) Connors:

 > Yeah, right.  
 > The guy's a tennis player, who has a style that ticks you off.  Bottom
 > line, he still gets it done.  When he started he was by far and away 
 > the premier tennis player, and it's just been the last few years
 > that the rest of the pack has caught up.

 > You can't attack the man's tennis ability, so you attack his personality.

Then in .139 your feelings on 17-year-old Seles:

 > Seles looks hideous.  I wouldn't diddle her with YOUR diddler...

 > First, I can't stand the way she grunts.  It sounds to me like she's
 > sitting one stall over when she does that.

So, would the correst response be:

 You can't attack the woman's teenis ability, so you attack her personality?

Warren

    I was just gladd Seles beat Capriati.  Oh boo hoo hoo Jennifer.  Seles
    has been dominant in Grand Slams this year.
    
    Wanted Courier, but Edberg was the better man.
    
    JD

Nope, you can't say I'm attacking her tennis, because I'm not talking
tennis.

I'm talking about how Monica fits on the Saw's Loinal Fire Index(tm)....

Monica is an excellent tennis player ( I get tired of the grunting though).

She just looks hideous....  

Like she needs a new 'do, and her 'tude could use a little work.

But she's an excellent player as her recent victory proved....


'Saw

    From what I saw of Conners match if he is much energy into his game as
    he did his little celebrations he would have beat Curier....

    REK

�    I was just gladd Seles beat Capriati.  Oh boo hoo hoo Jennifer.  Seles
�    has been dominant in Grand Slams this year.
    

JD,
    Perhaps Monica has been dominant this year, but Jennifer scores a 
solid 8.0 on the Wood-O-Meter(tm), and is rising fast.

I would pay a large amount of cash for a pair of her sweaty....ah, never 
mind.

Chap

 Careful, Chap.  That's a 15-year old you're talking about there.
 
 Bob Hunt

�< Note 159.148 by CTHQ1::LEARY >
�                         -< he meant 6 years from now >-

	No I didn't, 6 years from now she'll be over the hill..


:-0 (OH MY)

Chap
    

Re: last 100 or so replies trashing John McEnroe...

This is a classic case of believing what the media feeds you.  I have been 
watching McEnroe since the first days of his pro career (when he qualified for
Wimbledon as a 17 year old and then lost in the semi's in 4 sets to a then at
his prime Connors in 1977).

Did any of you watch the interviews they did with McEnroe, Borg and Connors 
(and its Connors, not Conners) during Wimbledon this year?  In the McEnroe 
segment, they had about 15 clips of his career, and all but 2 of them were
of him trashing the ump, linesmen or what have you.  Can you honestly say
that NBC could'nt find more than 2 instances of his dazzling tennis over his
illustrious career?  That interview really galled me.  But that's what most
occasional tennis watchers see, and its the image NBC wants to project 
(actually, not just NBC, but nearly all the media).  

In 1977 as a 17 year old, Fleet street hounded him like they had'nt done to
anybody before, and he, not knowing what to do, lashed back occasionally.  
Fleet St. immediately dubbed him "Super Brat" and that was the end of that.  
He never got a chance to redeem himself, and things went from bad to worse 
(aka the snowball effect).  Sure, he brought some of it on himself, but *most*
of the time, he (being the perfectionist that he is, and he is one) would be
screaming at himself during matches, umpires would give him warnings, and then
he's get even more angry which would lead to more trouble.  These silly rules
that the ATP have put into effect don't help either.  Its part of the reason
(IMO) that the number of people who view tennis has been steadily diminishing.
When you have automaton like Lendl, Edberg (I love the way he plays, BTW), 
Courier, Chang etc on TV, who would want to watch?  Gone are the days when 
you could have characters like Nastase, McEnroe, Connors, Gerulaitis come
up through the ranks, because nowadays, if you so much as open your mouth, your
liable to get a warning, then a penalty point and ulimately default the match.

If pro-tennis contiues the way it is, its popularity is going to decline 
even further.  Sure, the big tournaments will get their share of spectators, 
but overall attendance will diminish.

RE;  Davis Cup:

McEnroe has continued to play Davis Cup whenever requested, even when the so
called better players have decided to stay away from less marquee matches
when their agents tell them that it is'nt worth their time to play (e.g., 
this years Cup match against Spain in Newport RI in June).  You can bet that 
they will be playing against Germany.  McEnroe has always said- "Tell me
where and when and I'll be there".  Contrast this to Borg and Connors who 
would'nt play because there was'nt enough money in it.  Borg, in fact, used to
play exhibition matches when Sweden was playing its Cup matches.  McEnroe used
to play both singles and doubles (translated, this means he played 3 best of
five set matches in three days, and in those days, the Davis Cup did not 
have a tie break, so you continued to play till somebody won the set by a
difference of atleast 2 games).

And the people who called McEnroe a quitter...all I can say is that you should
get your facts straight.  I can recall atleast half a dozen matches that I
personally watched when I thought that he was down and out, but still managed
to come back and win.  (e.g., a 6.5 hour Davis Cup match against Mats Wilander
which he won in 5 sets, a 7-6 in the fifth set win over Connors in a US Open
semi-final in 1980 or '81, when he was down 2 sets to 1 against Wilander in 
the 1985 US Open semi's and a break down in 115 degree temperature, when he
was down 7 championship points to Borg in the 1980 Wimbledon final, but forced
the match into the fifth set, and this years match against Chang when he 
Chang was outplaying him but he still managed to take it to the fifth set).
I could go on, but you get the picture.

Oh and one other thing...whatever you say about McEnroe, he never whines at
a press conference.  And he does'nt make excuses about his fitness either. How
many times have you heard Lendl, Becker etc at a press conference after a match
they lost and complain about some injury or the other.  You can bet your
bottom dollar that if the injury was bad, they would'nt be on the court.  

Sameer

    Sameer,
    
    Great note about Mac but, and forgive me if I'm wrong, but I
    
    don't recall reading much serious Mac bashing - most of it
    
    was Connors stuff.  No reply necessary because you did an
    
    excellent job defending Mac, even if IMO, it weren't necessary.
    
    BTW, Jimmy Connors has withdrawn from a tennis match in Paris,
    
    citing "leg problems"!  ~/~
    
    Kev
    

    Spoiled, whiney brats - all of 'em.
    
    Rich
    

Re.150

Great Johnny Mac note.  The bottom line is that if he's playing I'll watch the
match. If Jimbo (BTW it is Jimbo, not Connors) is playing I'll see what else
is on. And that goes for the tennis as well as the post game interview.

I do enjoy watching Enberg, Lendl, et al but I'm a great tennis fan.  I can't
see the masses getting into these guys.  Oh well.  They're all overpaid anyway.

    Dick Enberg plays tennis?  I thought you said you are a great fan?
    
    
    Mark.

Oh my. That settles it. What with this Notre Dame crap.  He's on the air too
)(*&(ed much.  Time to move him to the Curt Gowdy home for sportscasters who
I've had it with.

Warren

    
    I was willing to go along with this Connors miracle crap until he made
    that ridiculous crack to the umpire about being "38 years old and
    busting my butt and you make a call like that!".  Can you imagine, say,
    Nolan Ryan whining to the umpires that they shouldn't be squeezing a
    44-year-old geezer like himself?  To me, that said Jimmy was doing a
    little bit more than concentrating on his tennis (which was amazing for
    a stretch), and had his eye on his news clippings just a little bit...
    
    glenn
     

    Pampered, spoiled, whining brats they are.
    
    Rich
    

    Hawk and Glenn -
    
    You guys take the comment way too seriously.  Geez.   It was a horrible
    call, FWIW.
    
    JD

What gets yelled in the heat of athletic combat is seldom thought out
or planned.  Athletes don't waste concentration on that stuff.

The funniest one I've ever heard was at the NY Irish game last season
when Eddie Brewer (who's of Irish descent) broke up a fight as it was
starting between a NY rugger and one of us.  The NY rugger took exception,
but couldn't get a shot in at Eddie, so he yelled at him "You got a big
nose and flat ears!".  I almost peed myself.

No, these things are not thought through and usually happen like this:


	out_file = fopen(thought_stream,"w");
	fprintf(out_file,"First thing that comes to mind\n");


hth,
'Saw

    Just because we haven't heard on TV some of the things said to umpires
    doesn't mean that they don't exist.
    
    Who knows if Ryan or Seaver or John or others haven't made a similar
    comment regarding their "stature" to an umpire?
    
    Agreed, JD....the call was horrendous.
    
    Mark.

    
     The difference between Nolan Ryan and Jimmy Connors besides the fact
    that one has class and the other is a moronic exhibitionist is that one
    has class and the other is a moronic exhibitionist. Had to laugh though
    when ole Jimbo told the interviewer after getting smoked by Courier that
    he was glad that he could still 'play with these guys'. If he had drawn
    Courier in the first round instead of a playing a parade of stiffs we'd
    have all been spared his phony act.

    DEFINE CONNORS_J_MCENROE SPOILED::WHINERS_IN_WHITE_SHORTS

    The TENNIS conference has moved.  Hit kp7 to select...

    
> What gets yelled in the heat of athletic combat is seldom thought out
> or planned.  Athletes don't waste concentration on that stuff.
    
    Which is exactly the point.  I agree with this completely, which is why
    I don't necessarily hold it against a guy for throwing a temper tantrum 
    occasionally (unless it becomes a regularly expected thing, like with
    McEnroe).  In all my experiences with sports, though, I've never heard 
    of anyone coming up with something as calculated as "I'm so old 
    (fat/dumb/ugly) and you're doing that to me!" during a competition, 
    *precisely* at the time so much national attention was being paid to 
    that very fact.  Even George Foreman left it at the press conferences.
    I guess that's the benefit of having the open mikes in tennis.  
    They're there to be used.  Just my opinion, of course...
    
    JD, who are you to be telling me that I'm taking something too
    seriously?  Everything I've ever learned about ranting and raving over
    a minor point concerning an athlete's character has come from you, the
    master (read: Namath, Clemens, Lemieux, Jordan, Miami Hurricanes, et 
    al)!!!  ;-) ;-)
    
    Just as a follow-on, I agree wholeheartedly with those who pointed out 
    that someone who says that "Athlete X is the only thing that keeps Sport
    Y from being a boring, lifeless exhibition populated by automatons"
    probably isn't a true fan of the sport.  That's not a slight, either.
    I think it takes a lot of time and effort to really appreciate even
    *one* sport, and for the rest of us who don't know a lob from a volley, 
    players like McEnroe and Connors certainly do bring attention to the 
    game.  For those who love tennis for itself (not me), I can see where 
    those kind of theatrics overshadow the essence of the event, the 
    *tennis*, and that criticism of great players who don't feel the need 
    to make jerks of themselves for the masses as "bland" could really be 
    aggravating.  It bothers me with the sport I really enjoy, baseball, 
    at least...
    
    glenn
     

    Aggasi has been named to represent the US in the Davis Cup in the
    semi-finals against the Germans.  I think Courier was also selected,
    but I'm not sure.

    Glenn -
    
    Yeah, But i don't take Jordon, Lemeuix, et al seriously at all.  I do
    it to tweak folks - like an Air Brooks.  I find blind idolotry of
    sports figures by adults to one of the funniest things in life.  As a
    kid its fine.  As an adult, IMO, its a litte strange.
    
    Before a mountain lion jumps me, let me say that blind idolotry is not
    the same as admiration, respect, like or even love.
    
    Hey, my all time favorite tennis player was doing  commentary for USA -
    Vitas Gerulitas.  My other all-time favorite tennis player was probably
    having sexy dreams about me - Chris Everett.  ;-)
    
    JD

    
    JD, and I'm not quibbling ((:^))
    
    It's  E V E R T,  Chrissie Evert, 'fer cripes sake ! (although my
    personal Everett, Jim, looks like he should be on a tennis court
    these days ...)
    
    
    In other news, Agassi and Courier defeated Stich and Steeb to give
    the US a 2-0 lead in the Davis Cup quarterfinals, on Friday, 9/20.
    
    Courier beat Steeb 4-6, 6-1, 6-3, 6-4, while Agassi took care of
    Stich in 101 minutes 6-3, 6-1, 6-4.
    
    The US can wrap the quarters up today with a win in doubles (Scott
    Davis and David Pate).
    
    - acp

    
    
      A Hollywood promoter is offering to produce a $1 million winner-
    take -all  match between Jimmy Connors and Monica Seles. David Krieff
    plans for his Destiny Productions to produce the match for pay-per-view
    television.
    

 It's so.   Certainly in the planning stages.
 
 Also certainly makes me wanna revert to cynic mode.   We tried ...
 oh, we tried ... to discuss Mr Connors' oh-so-crafty tendencies
 towards the, a-hem, "theatrical" side of the game as he and the
 almighty tube roared through his no-seeds quarter bracket at the
 recent US Open.
 
 Of course, at that time, the theatrics were in full prime time swing
 so how dare we notice the emperor's naked butt cheeks ... ooops,
 sorry, I mean ... his new clothes, of course.   Oh, no, we were
 seeing the most amazing display of tennis guts, courage, and stamina
 since the Bronze Age and blah, blah, blah ... 
 
 Now, of course, when the spotlights are dimmed and the tube has
 turned back to its regularly scheduled hype, Mr Connors' image
 machine needs a refill.   Bah.
   
 I can see it now ... 
 
   "What ?!?!?!   I'm out here at 39 years old playing against this
   top-ranked grunting 17-year old teeny-bopper who won three-fourths
   of the Grand Slam and would have won Wimbledon if she didn't have
   shin splints and you're doing this to *ME* ???   You're a disgrace
   !!!   Get outta that chair !!!   You're a bum !!!"
 
 We'll be right back after this message from one of our sponsors ...
 
 Bob Hunt

    > A Hollywood promoter is offering to produce a $1 million winner-
    > take -all  match between Jimmy Connors and Monica Seles. David Krieff
    > plans for his Destiny Productions to produce the match for pay-per-view
    > television.
    
    Yeah, the proposal includes fewer serves for Connors and a wider
    court for Seles to hit towards.  I hope one of these two have the 
    common decency to just say no.  I doubt it will be Jimmy, though...
    
    glenn
    

    Re: Hollywood producer
    
    Is his last name Riggs?

   �                   <<< Note 159.118 by CTHQ1::LEARY >>>
   �                 -< he's got a lotta Bobby Riggs in him >-

 Wow, MikeL really *nailed* this one.   Dead solid perfect.   A rocket
 serve that kicked up chalk and thundered past everyone.
   
 Bob Hunt

    Bob,
    Mebbe I'm perverse, but I know Jimbo (and Riggs) is a-tuckin' it
    to the staid tennis echelon and ultimately us and I kinda enjoy
    the slicksterism. If ya know what their game is, just smile and
    laugh at it. I think there's a little bit of Jimbo/Riggs in all of
    us.
    
    JMHO
    MikeL
    

       I've got no problem with this 'exhibition' either. If people wanna
    pay to see something like this, who am I to tell them they caint? I
    wouldn't pay for it, but I'm sure somebody else will. Like I always
    say: If you nail 2 things together, SOMEBODY will buy it.
                                           Denny

 Believe it or not, I have no problem with the exhibition, either.   
 
 If Jimmy and Monica want to get it on for a million bucks, let 'em.  
 It's no cash outta my pocket.    In fact, I'll bet it'll be a great
 show.   Jimmy, resplendent in his Nike "Air Jimbo" tennis duds, will
 pump his Georgio Armani fists every time he scores a Miller High Life
 point and Monica, decked out in her Virginia Slims threads, will
 grunt on every single shot.    She'll be grunting "Bud!" with each
 shot.
 
 Jimmy will sweat soak half a dozen towels.   Towels imprinted, of
 course, with a Coca-Cola logo.   And, afterward, the winner gets a
 bucket of Gatorade dumped on his/her head.   And then the
 Southwestern Marketing Manager for the Luxury Car division of the
 Nissan Motor Company USA will present the check for $1,000,000.
 
 And, of course, the Neilsen ratings will call it a big success but
 CBS will lose a bundle anyway.   Lights, camera, action ...
 
 Think they'll play it in an Iowa cornfield ???   Nah, me neither.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Congrats to the French Davis Cup Tennis Team!
    
    First time in fifty-nine (59) years to win the Cup!
    
    If anybody else watched the (final) match yesterday, I have an
    inquiry - Who was that beautiful brunette in the blue sweater (WOW!)
    sitting in the front row with the rest of the French team??? Could she
    have been Guy Forget's main squeeze? a trainer?  DTW, pleeze.
    
    Kev
    

    Kev -
    
    The brunette was Mme Forget.  As in, she's taken, mon.  :-(
    
    Actually, I watched all the coverage.  Kind of fun to hear fans like
    that at a *tennis* match - screaming and shouting and cheering their
    team on to victory.  After the first day, I figured that Sampras wasn't
    going to win, but that we'd still pull it out.  Then Flack & Seguso
    went down in flames and the crowd kicked in and, well,  the French just
    played inspired.
    
    It's been a long time between wins for them.  Be interesting to see how
    they do for the next couple of years.
    
    A&W

    
>    Kind of fun to hear fans like
>    that at a *tennis* match - screaming and shouting and cheering their
>    team on to victory.  
    
    No way!  That means you're obnoxious and arrogant.  And since they
    were cheering against the Americans, it makes them politically
    incorrect too.
    
    Just thought I'd clear that up.
    
    	--dan'l

    Read this in USA TODAY:
    
    (AP) Salt Lake City - Utah Jazz G.M. Frank Layden blamed the U.S. loss
    to France in the Davis Cup finals on Isiah Thomas.  "The French know
    all about Isiah too.  They don't buy it, and neither do we anymore."
    Scottie Pippen was unavailalbe for comment.
    
    
    HTH
    
    JD

    rollin bigtime JD - good one!
    
    A&W, 
    RATS!!!!! :*(
    
    I can still fantacize tho (as long as my SO doesn't find out)
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    

It looks like everybody's favorite 13 year old tennis phenom, Jennifer Capriati,
is turning into everybody's forgotten 14+ year old burn out.

Seems that Jennifer was in tears at her press conference after losing in a 
second set tie breaker yesterday to Gabriela Sabatini.  She lost the match on
three straight unforced errors, and afterward said that the pressure on her is
tremendous.  She has been trying to move up from her #6 rating in the world, but
has been unable to do so recently.  The article  I read said, that aside from her 
visible dissapointment, she is also showing other (unspecified in the article) 
signs of burn out.

=Bob=

>    A sweaty, braless Monica Seles is also enjoyable to watch... :-)
    
She grunts too much.  She reminds me of Spam Squeely(tm)...


Now for me, Steffi still does it...and Gabrielle too!


'Saw    

Monica, Gabriele, Steffi...

They could all sweat on me!

    Who was the female tennis player who wore the one-piece outfit that
    caused such an uproar at staid Wimbledon?
    
    Deen to wonk
    MikeL
    

    Thanks Ninj,
    As I remember she was no flash, jest an attention-getter. I could be
    wrong tho.
    
    MikeL
    

    Anne White was never much of a tennis player but she sure created waves
    at Wimbledon.
    
    My personal favorite was always Pam Shriver.  Tall, intelligent and a
    heck of a tennis player stuck behind Evert and Navratilova, and then
    stuck behind the Kiddie Corps.
    
    John

       Pam did win some hardware though. She was Martina's doubles partner.
                                       Denny

    Anyone hear a report that Arthur Ashe has AIDS... from a transfusion
    from open heart surgery 10 years ago?
    
    -Walt
    

    Walt,
       I read in another conference that one of the networks is reporting
    that.
                                     Denny

    I heard something on WFAN at lunch, but it was kind of fuzzy...
    *@#&(*#&...
    
    My mom saw him in O'Hare a couple of weeks ago and compared notes. 
    Pretty much decided there was a connection between families somewhere.
    Now this...
    

From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: clari.sports.tennis,clari.sports.top
Subject: Arthur Ashe reportedly has AIDS virus
Keywords: tennis, men's professional
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 8 Apr 92 17:13:07 GMT
Lines: 25

	NEW YORK (UPI) -- Former tennis great Arthur Ashe reportedly has been
infected with the AIDS virus, apparently acquired during heart surgery
13 years ago.
	Ashe, a Wimbledon and U.S. Open champion, called a news conference
for 3:30 p.m. EDT in New York, at which time he was to discuss his
situation.
	Ashe, 48, suffered a severe heart attack in July 1979 and underwent
quadruple-bypass surgery in December of that year. A relapse of his
heart condition necessitated further surgery.
	Ashe would be the second major sports figure to announce he has
contracted the AIDS virus. Magic Johnson revealed he is HIV-positive
Nov. 7, 1991.
	Born in Richmond, Va., July 10, 1943, Ashe was one of the first black
tennis stars. As an amateur, he won the first U.S. Open in 1968 and
captured Wimbledon in 1975 with a stunning upset over Jimmy Connors. In
all, he had 33 career titles and rose to No. 2 in the world rankings in
May, 1976.
	Since his forced retirement as a player, Ashe has been a strong,
dignified spokesman for tennis. He served as U.S. Davis Cup captain from
1981-85, winning the cup the first two years. Currently, he is a tennis
broadcaster, and he authored a a three-part book, ``A Hard Road to
Glory,'' a history of the African-American athlete.
	Ashe was an All-American tennis player at UCLA from 1963-65, winning
the NCAA Championship in 1965. He now lives in Mount Kisco, N.Y.

    Will there be thinly veiled accusations about Ashe's lovelife like
    there were for Earvin Johnson's?

    Why?  It says where he got the virus from in the article.

>	Ashe, 48, suffered a severe heart attack in July 1979 and underwent
    							 ^^^^
    For those of you who are surprised by this date and the connection to
    AIDS, do youself a big favor and read the Rolling Stone article "The
    Origin of AIDS" (about two issues ago, Wayne's World cover).  You will
    be amazed.
    
    	--dan'l

       How about a synopsis dan'l.
                                   Denny

I know that many doctors today, if they have a patient who will undergo
surgery, advocate that the patient donate blood prior to the operation
to be used if blood is needed during surgery...


Scary times folks....


'Saw

 Synopsis of the AIDS article in the recent Stone was that the frantic rush
 during the 1950's to develop a polio vaccine may have accidentally caused
 the mutation of the Simian Immunodeficiency Virus (SIV) into HIV.
 
 Polio vaccine was cultivated inside the kidneys of certain species of
 African monkeys and their SIV virus may have crossed over into our HIV. 
 And the experiments with the new polio vaccines back then were carried out
 in large numbers in African villages ... where AIDS is far more widespread
 than here.
 
 And then the circa 1960 revolution in the Belgian Congo sent all the
 Europeans home and so they imported cheap Haitian labor into the country. 
 And Haiti is now another AIDS disaster area.
 
 Salk and Sabin admit the possibility of the mistake.  They knew they were
 on the cutting edge in virology and that they might not catch all the
 viruses that might've crossed over.   
 
 There's another doc (I forget his name) from the Philly area who did a lot
 of the African village inoculations (with an open mist sprayer directly
 onto the mucous membranes of the throat) who still has some frozen samples
 of the virus "seeds" from back then.  But he's resisting this theory and
 refuses to turn any of the source stuff over for HIV testing.
 
 It certainly sounded plausible.  I try not to get suckered into every
 half-baked conspiracy theory angle but, just like "JFK", this one *might*
 have happened.
 
 Bob Hunt

    You really have to read the entire article to get the feel for the
    magnitude and eventual controversy, but here's a short synopsis of the
    Rolling Stone article "The Origin of AIDS":

    Main thrust of the article implies that (make sure you're sitting down
    for this) AIDS is a manifestation of the polio vaccine.  That's right.
    The vaccine that was hailed as saving humankind from the dreaded
    disease of polio just may be the origin of the AIDS virus.

    There were three prominent doctors (Salk is the only one I can
    remember) who pioneered the vaccine for polio.  The way the vaccine was
    first produced was through (yick) mashed up monkey kidneys.  The
    vaccine was cultured in the monkey kidneys and extracted.

    Now, here are the connections:

    	- an HIV-like virus has been discovered in monkeys.  It is called 	
    	  SIV (Simian Immuneo Virus).  SIV can live in the monkey's system
    	  with no apparent danger to the monkey's life.  What they
    	  suspect, however, is SIV hitched a ride with the polio vaccine
    	  and was introduced into the human body, became HIV, and
    	  eventually AIDS.

    	- the largest concentration of AIDS in the world is in the
    	  Belgian Congo where thousands of people have AIDS.  It is in
    	  this exact same area where one of the doctors (some Polish name)
    	  without the approval of the World Health Organization,
    	  inoculated thousands of Africans with the polio vaccine 
    	  via a mouth spray.

    When you read the article, you start saying "Yeah, but..." and then
    damn it if the next paragraph doesn't answer your question.  All bases
    are covered.

    The three doctors are all very defensive and keep answering questions
    with, "Why worry about it? It won't help find a cure by finding the
    origin."

    Read it.

    	--dan'l

      Thanks guys.

    
    It is pretty scary to think that there may be many more people than
    ever imagined out there who have been infected as long as maybe 20
    years ago.  Think of the days of wild abandon of your youth, or the
    people you know (or even yourself) who have received blood during
    surgery.  The extent to which this killer disease has spread is
    still a big unknown.
    
    Dickstah
    

    As the note previously noted, Arthur Ashe was from Richmond and this
    news will hit the community here very hard. He was an eloquent speaker
    and a champion for inner-city youth. Along with Willie Lanier, Ashe has
    helped raise thousands of $$$ for programs to help the city's
    youngsters.
    
    Rich
    

    I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that this Polio/SIV theory had been 
    debunked by AIDS experts, as the virus has been successfully traced
    back as far back as a couple of hundred years with a corpse found in
    France.  Who knows, maybe we're talking about a completely different
    strain or something, but for right now it seems that with a lot of
    mystery around the virus you've got to be a medical expert to filter
    through all of the various farfetched (some much more than others)
    theories to understand what's most likely instead of just what's
    remotely possible...
    
    glenn
    

    Well, the source of this virus is interesting and important, but right
    now I feel very badly for the Ashe family.  Not only for his having
    this dreaded disease, but the publicity that he was trying to avoid in
    regards to it.  He's known about it since 1989, I believe, and his
    family (wife and daughter) are aware of his condition.  They continued
    to live their lives, and Ashe has continued to be VERY involved with
    inner-city youth.  But, because of his celebrity status, this story was
    going to break in the papers so he had to go public.  Perhaps it's all
    for the best, but it would have been better, in my mind, if he had made
    the decision to do so, rather than to have it forced on him.
    
    He is the one who made me think about how tennis is a VERY difficult
    path for the non-rich, as is golf.  Perhaps hockey is also in this
    category, unlike baseball and basketball and football.  The costs are
    often out of reach for many people.  That is, the cost of the equipment
    and the cost of renting time on a rink or court or course is much more
    than the cost of a baseball glove and bat, or a pair of sheakers and a
    BB.  Football is usually funded somehow, so the cost to the player
    isn't as high as golf or tennis.
    
    lEe

    >Well, the source of this virus is interesting and important, but right
    >now I feel very badly for the Ashe family.  Not only for his having
    >this dreaded disease, but the publicity that he was trying to avoid in
    >regards to it.  He's known about it since 1989, I believe, and his
    >family (wife and daughter) are aware of his condition.  They continued
    >to live their lives, and Ashe has continued to be VERY involved with
    

Well, when Ashe was on ABC Nightline last night, he said his daughter did not 
know and he and his wife were going to tell her today.  The main reason for his 
silence was to avoid the publicity and also the AIDS biggotry (my words not 
his) that this will be bring into young her life.

Really makes you think...

Scott

    What bothers me about this forced publicity is what a Boston Herald rep
    (editor?) said on the news last night.  He justified it as the people
    paying Ashe's salary have a right to know.  The way I see it, he's been
    long-removed from the pro tennis scene and has been a private person
    since before his HIV contraction.  Big, big difference between his
    situation and Magic Johnson's as far as the paying public is concerned,
    IMHO.
    
    BTW, I've been meaning to say this for a while.  I've done some "soul
    searching", if you will, about a lot of the things I've written in here
    in particular about Magic Johnson, and I regret the harshness of my
    criticisms.  I wish I could take it all back, but it's too late.  I
    only hope that people who may have objected to my old and admittedly
    classless opionions who probably have formed negative impressions about
    me personally will understand and realize what I'm trying to say here. 
    I know, I know, it's sappy, but it's for real....
    
    Hawk
    

   
    >> I only hope that people who may have objected to my old and admittedly
    >> classless opionions who probably have formed negative impressions about
    >> me personally will understand and realize what I'm trying to say here. 
   
       Hawk, if it's any consolotaion I didn't form any negative impressions 
       of you from the opinions you expressed here. I formed negative impres-
       sions of you after I met you in person .
    
       
       HTH
    

Hawk,

It's not sappy, but no amount of groveling will ever make us forgive you
for f___ing up the ticket thing...


8^)



What I object to about Ashe's treatment is that it is REALLY nobody's 
business.  The damn media should leave the man's privacy to the man.

Magic I believe chose to go public.  Ashe did not.  The media should have
respected his wishes.


I feel for Ashe, both for his ordeal facing him, and because the ever-peering
eye of the media wouldn't let the man be....


'SAw

    Hawk, I think your reaction to Ashe's condition is exactly what he
    would have hoped for. You aren't the only one who was unthinking, my
    friend. I think FINALLY, a person who can generate so much
    soul-searching can enlighten all of us.
    
    As far as the media, they stink. Whoever leaked the news was a close
    confident of Ashe. Yet, of course, the reporter will NOT divulge the
    rat's name. Ashe showed much more courage in what he did that that
    weasel who Ashe considered a friend.
    
    Rich
    

    A statistic I find amazing is that there are only 15-20 known cases of
    people contracting AIDS from blood transfusions during that window of
    years where the blood may have been tainted.
    
    Even more amazing is that somebody famous is one of those people.
    
    	--dan'l

    Given how long it takes for people to become symptomatic after
    contracting HIV, I'm not entirely surprised that we have so few known
    transfusion-caused cases.  Also, it isn't something that the victim is
    likely to publicize, because of the almost automatic assumption that it
    was contracted from behavior which most of society feels is "no good". 
    The other factor at work there is that there were fewer cases in
    general then -- transmission seems to be on an exponential increase,
    which is common with epidemics.
    
    Arthur Ashe always was and continues to be a class act.  I hope that
    those who deal with his family on a daily basis, particularly his
    daughter, don't change their interactions with them too much.  Some
    change is inevitable.
    
    
    And Hawk - what you've said (and continue to say) on this topic
    reflects the attitudes and opinions of a lot of people.  The fact that
    you continue to think about it, learn about it, and are willing to
    change and grow as you learn is to your credit.
    
    A&W

	Just because Arthur Ashe is an exceptional individual doesn't mean 
the media is slime for wanting to report that he has AIDS.  I would think 
it would be a tough call for an editor, but if Arthur had cancer or MS 
instead of AIDS would you still think badly of the media for reporting it?
He still is a public person and although I see no way the fact that he has 
AIDS affects the things he does, saying that the press had *no* right to 
report it bothers me.  Because if you say you're not to report this kind of 
thing about Arthur Ashe, then you shouldn't be allowed to report it about 
George Bush, or anyone for that matter.  If I were and editor I wouldn't 
print the story, but the law can't account for bad taste.

	    			/Don

    I disagree to some degree /Don.  Bush affects us because he runs this
    country.  Magic because he was a public figure who chose to quit to
    extend his life and there had to be a reason to come forward with its
    abruptness.  Arthur  1) didn't want to go public with it because of the
    perception of those like Mac (no offense) who immediately wondered
    about innuendos about his sexual life and other stigmas and didn't want
    to put his daughter through that at an early age and 2) I don't think
    if Ashe had cancer or leukemia it would as big a deal.  He had heart
    surgery and that was news, so I can see this to some degree, but back
    then he was a commentator, a Davis Cup captain, etc.  Now he does none
    of that.  
    
    I mean, I didn't really care if Tsongas had cancer, if Kerrey
    or Silber lost some of their limbs, my concern was could they do what
    they said and did I like what they said.  The other crap to me meant
    nothing.  The press made some issue about it because they were running
    to lead the people.  Ashe wasn't trying to do any of that.  I mean what
    if DTW ran an ad saying you had AIDS and confirmed it with you?  Would
    you want everyone knowing if you wanted to keep a low profile?  No one
    writes about the problems John Williamson was having, no one made a big
    deal about David Woodley until he had his surgery.  I think the press
    should respect a person's wishes if there's something like that going
    on.  He didn't break the law, have an affair, sleep with an alien or
    anything like that.  The perception of ignorant people towards him
    isn't worth what he'll be put through.
    
    The people who needed to know were the people closest to him.  They
    knew, that's all that need to.  He's not endorsing products or anything
    like that...
    

�Arthur  1) didn't want to go public with it because of the
�    perception of those like Mac (no offense) who immediately wondered
�    about innuendos about his sexual life and other stigmas and didn't want
�    to put his daughter through that at an early age and 
    
    WHOA THERE.  I think you misunderstood me, Walt.  I went on record in
    the Magic Johnson topic as being appalled at the amount of innuendo and
    outright accusations being thrown at Johnson.  I was simply asking if
    Ashe would get the same sorry, unfair treatment that Johnson had to
    endure when he first went public.

    I Took Mac's comments as Trying To draw a reacTion from a noTer in
    parTicular who drew a conclusion ThaT perhaps Magic Johnson had a thing
    for liTTle boys...
    
    Hawk
    

    I don't know, /Don. I don't see any value in an editor running a story
    on Ashe having the HIV virus. It's like divulging Rod Laver tested
    positive. Who cares? He hasn't actually got the virus, actually. He has
    just tested HIV positive. 
    
    I think Arthur agonized over how to handle this with his daughter. She
    is only 5 and I believe he and his wife were waiting for her to attain
    a certain level of maturity so they could discuss it. 
    
    Since Ashe is not a politcal leader, does not compete physically, has
    no live or die bearing on anyone other than his family....I don't think
    the media needed to report this.
    
    We always chuckle at the headlines of the Star and Enquirer as we
    check out at the newstand. This reporter and the editorial board has
    now relegated Arthur Ashe to this same level of headlines. Watch,
    within 2 weeks, Ashe will share headlines in those tabloids with Oprah,
    Fergie, Liz Taylor and Senator Ted. Is this fair to a man who has led
    such a fine life and who has given back so much to underprivileged
    kids?
      
    VA Gov Wilder was very close to Ashe and related in the news today a
    conversation he and Arthur had yesterday. The Guv said Arthur told him
    that he was not folding his tent; that he would continue to adapt and
    fight. 
    
    FWI - I also learned that Ashe has lost use of his right hand after a
    biopsy was taken a few years back. Wow, talk about a guy who has had a
    bad deck of cards dealt him...
    
    Rich
    

    FYI, he not only has the HIV virus, he has the disease as well...
    
    Sorry if I misunderstood Mac, little sensitive about this one...
    

    
    Ashe wanted to keep it quiet, and his wishes were not respected.  The
    reporter or whoever told him to come out with it or the reporter would
    do it for him is a slimeball.  I don't see a "public has the right to
    know" here.
    
    Dickstah
    

    I have to believe that the media will get it's comeuppance - soon.
    
    Why can't they leave the man the hell alone ? 
    
    I was reading the Globe last week, and all of the sports writers were
    doing their share of soul-searching over the issue. What really sickens
    me is how some were hiding behind "if I don't break the story, someone
    else will" ...
    
    Can you say cop-op ?
    
    Disgusted yet again,
    
    Dr 00:00

    re .221
    
    Rich, from what I understood, Ashe found out he had AIDS because his
    hand went completely numb, and while having that checked out, the tests
    turned up AIDS ...
    
    Another good thing about all of this, Ashe looked really good and said
    that his good/bad day ratio was about 6:1, and that the bad days were
    more like "so-so" at worse, and then only during the morning. When you
    consider that he was exposed to the virus 13 years ago, it should give
    a lot more comfort to other victims - the upper ceiling on the virus is
    much higher than previously thought.
    
    Slash, I have to agree with Walt. I don't care to know something like
    this about Ashe if he didn't want to make it public, and I'm sure at
    least 90% of the general public feels the same way. But once again,
    media greed for 'the scoop' led to this. This 'public figure' and
    'right to know' crap has gotten way out of control.
    
    And now watch some a$$**le at The Star come up with a headline that
    features Heather Hunter and Ashe ... give it three weeks.
    
    And the minute we demand to know the source who broke this news, we'll
    hear 'I have the right to protect my sources ...' :-(
    
    The only good I see so far is the increased tolerance shown for Ashe,
    I'm sure it is in aprt due to his (well-deserved) reputation for class
    and grace, but I hope part of it is also due to the realization that
    this isn't "God's Revenge On The Homosexuals" - it is an
    equal-opportunity killer ...
    
    Doc

    Did anybody see Ashe's interview with Baba Wahwha on 20/20 Friday
    night? He and his wife displayed so much class and composure to the
    usual Baba questions, ("I just HAVE to ask this..."). This couple in no
    way deserved to have their privacy invaded. We're not talking Jimmah
    Connors or John McEnroe here. Arthur never sought the limelight unless
    it was to benefit other people.
    
    Doc - you bring up good points about how Ashe looks. He appears healthy
    and alert. Doesn't display the image many of us have with AIDS
    sufferers. And, BTW, he confirmed that he found out in 1988 during his
    brain surgery procedure.
    
    Rich
    

    I missed the interview, but I think I'm glad I did...
    

     Saturday morning while watching ESPN I saw the score of the 
    great Seles vs. Graf match in the French Open finals scroll by 
    on the bottom of the screen. Well, I figured I'd watch it later
    on in the afternoon when it was being televised on NBC but after
    about fifteen minutes of listening to Monica Seles sound like the
    climatic scene from "Debbie Does Dallas" I turned the tv off
    and went bike riding. I did however manage to watch Jim Courier
    dismantle Petr Korda Sunday.
    
     

    I'd sure hate to be the unfortunate person having a room in a hotel
    nexted to Monica's when she brings home some studly schlock after a hot
    night at the disco...  :-)
    
    Hawk
    

    
    Re.  French open
    
    The Ladies final was outstanding tennis.  A 10 - 8 third set.
    
    I wonder if Monica "madonna" Seles will be a no show at Wimbledon
    this year?  If she does show up will she be dressed like Madonna
    to shock the British fans?
    
    Mens final was OK.  I watched the first set, the first 4 games
    of the 2nd set left to run some errands come back and Courier is 
    serving for the championship.  Did Mr. Korda have the rope to tight
    around his neck.
    
    \pjb

>    The Ladies final was outstanding tennis.  A 10 - 8 third set.
    
    Best tennis I've seen in years.  Why was it not shown live like the
    men's final?
    
>    I wonder if Monica "madonna" Seles will be a no show at Wimbledon
>    this year?  If she does show up will she be dressed like Madonna
>    to shock the British fans?
    
    If she's dressed like Madonna in the latest issue of Playboy, you'll
    see some very shocked Brits and some very high TV ratings.
    
>    Did Mr. Korda have the rope to tight
>    around his neck.
    
    Courier was a tennis-playing machine yesterday.  Would have been tough
    for anyone to beat him let alone the 200th player in the world who
    ended up in the final.  Courier is the best player I've seen since
    Lendl was at his peak.  He could make a bundle in marketing if he
    weren't so vanilla.  It's ashame slobs like Agassi can make so much for
    being so mediocre.
    
    Courier impressed everyone by saying his thanks in very articulate
    French yesterday.  And I thought the Johnny Carson acknowledgement was
    classy too.
    
    	--dan'l

    
     Are you sure Korda was ranked 200th ? I thought that I heard
    during the match that he was ranked 8th. Korda started out like 
    he was going to put up a struggle but too many unforced errors 
    eventually did him in.

Can't STAND Monica Seles.....


But, I would have turned the sound down and watched Steffi any day.....


'Saw

    > Can't STAND Monica Seles.....
    > But, I would have turned the sound down and watched Steffi any day.....
    
    According to a blurb that I barely caught on ESPN last night,
    apparently, the Wimbeldon officials suggested that she tone it down a
    bit, in pretty much those words.  I was rolling!  Anybody have the
    exact text of that "suggestion"?
    
    Hawk
    

    I don't know, but if you can hear a Seles match blindfolded, tennis is
    the last thing you'd think she was doing ....

Heard on the radio while doing an errand - 
 
Michael Chang became the first seeded player upset at Wimbleton today.

=Bob=

 � Michael Chang became the first seeded player upset at Wimbleton today.
 
 Which just goes to prove, once again, that they shouldn't even bother
 seeding clay court specialists at Wimbledon.  
 
 Betcha Chang didn't make hotel reservations for the full two weeks.   He
 knows that grass ain't his game.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Andre Agassi won the men's final at Wimbledon, 6-7, 6-4, 6-4, 1-6, 6-4. 
    He becomes the second lowest seeded man to win the title.
    
    John

    McEnroe and Stich won the men's doubles this morning in the longest
    doubles match in Wimbledon history.  I think the final score in the
    fifth set tie breaker was 18-16.
    
    	--dan'l

    Well, with Agassi removing his hands from his throat after seven years
    and joining Lemieux in the "yes-I-can-win-the-big-one" category, that
    leaves Dean Smith and Barry Bonds in the current big gagger category. 
    I hope Dean is all by himself come October.
    
    	--dan'l

    Actually, Dean Smith isn't quite a gagger since he has won the big one
    once.  Not that I'm a Smith fan or even an apologist, just thought I'd
    point it out.  :-)
    
    Ninj

    
    yabbut, aGASsi is only 22 years old.
    
    Just thought I'd mention that.
    
    yer welcome,
    Kev
    

Have to admit Agassi played well throughout Wimbledon.  He totally dominated 
yesterday, and was poised, and played his game.  

It will be interesting to see if he now raises his game to a new level, or 
goes back to his chicken-boned ways in the US Open.

On bash (I cain't resist) - how 'bout those crockodile tears for his adoring 
fans after he won.

=Bob=

    
     I never thought I'd sit through an entire Agassi match or root for
    him to win but I did both of those things yesterday. 

    re: McEnroe/Stich win
    
    That was 18-16 in GAMES, in the 5th set, not a tie breaker. Grand slam
    events do not use a tie breaker in a deciding set (3rd for women, 5th
    for men). Absolutely amazing that 2 teams are so evenly matched.
    
    To say Agassi dominated is a bit much. He did need 5 sets to win.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    
    	I couldn't get myself to pull for the long haired Iraninan! YUK!
    
    Better luck next year Johnny Mac!
    
    B.A.

Agassi was hanging on for dear life in the final set.  The croation's serve was
unbelievable in that set!!   He seemed overpowering until he double faulted twice
in the final game.  How many aces did he deliver in that set?  It seemed he aced
at least two of the games in the final set.

		Bob  

    re .244 and others
    
    
    Andre-bashing.
    
    
    ay, ay, AY!  Watchit.  Yer less than adoring remarks have caught the
    eye of one who will defend her SportsHero to the max, dude.  Only Andre
    Adultators may call him names.  
    
    Many :)'s
    
    
    kimBO who couldn't have been happier if the San Diego Padres went to
    another Series and bored us to death again
    
    
    

I was pulling for Agassi the entire time, and sort of like Tommy, I rarely
watch tennis, or any match in its entirety.

Agassi hung tough, really tough, and he won.  I kept thinking that 
Ivanesevic would self destruct.  I don't know why, it was just a feeling.

At any rate, it was one of the most enjoyable, close tennis matches I've
ever seen.

As to Agassi being overcome by emotion, I cannot imagine why not.  Few of
us in our lives will accomplish something on that grand a scale....  I can't
even begin to think of what I would do 8^)



And Johnny Mac and Stich played a helluva doubles match too!


'Saw

I was rooting for Agassi because he was the better player. Ivanisavich is a great
server but he's an average player. I was rooting against him because I like
to see tennis not just serving.

I like power tennis but just watching a guy serve for his games is pretty 
boring.

I also rooted for Steffi even though Monica didn't grunt. It just went to show
everybody that she could have stopped it when she chose it wasn't involantary.

Metz

>I also rooted for Steffi even though Monica didn't grunt. It just went to show
>everybody that she could have stopped it when she chose it wasn't involantary.

I was in heaven watching Steffi and Gabrielle.  Didn't know who to root
for so I just sat there woodyward for the entire match.....

sigh.


'Saw

>I also rooted for Steffi even though Monica didn't grunt. It just went to show
>everybody that she could have stopped it when she chose it wasn't involantary.
    
    She did show she could stop when she wanted to, but I wonder if
    concentrating on not grunting cost her concentration on her tennis.

    
     I agree with Mac (!). I can't help but wonder if thinking about not
    grunting didn't detract from Monica's tennis.
    
     As for Andre, he just played a really beautiful match. He made about 
    two dozen or so sparkling winners and alot of the time his return of
    serve was so incredible that it just left Ivanesevic flat-footed. My
    feeling and it's shared by many others is that the powers that be in
    tennis are going to have to place some limits on the advances in tech-
    nology in the equipment or else one day we'll see two guys playing each
    other with the same style of tennis Ivanesevic displayed Sunday.

    It's a shame that Ivanesevic's game doesn't get more credit. He's
    really made strides in the mental half of the game as well. Goran would
    have probably beaten almost anyone else Sunday, Andre was just 'in the
    zone' - fantastic tennis. McEnroe couldn't believe some of the shots
    that Andre' was bombing him with.
    
    Now, get ready for the Andre media blitz - if you thought the
    commericial blitz was bad before, get ready for The Deluge.
    
    Back to Goran ... see Roscoe Tanner. Ivanesevic will be a much better
    player.
    
    And I agree fully about limiting the technology.

    
     Ivanesevic has made strides, Doc but there were times Sunday when his
    serve didn't blow Agassi away that he looked lost and discouraged but
    the kid is only 20.

    It's a testament to the power of Ivanesevic's serve that Agassi's
    return received so much credit in a match where he allowed an
    incredible 38 aces!
    
    glenn
    

    Ah, but it can make for exciting tennis, because it wasn't as if
    both men had a strong serve and no return. Ivan*.* played some great
    serve and volley, and Agassi nailed some unreal passing shots.
    
    Talk about power service - Ivan*.* got more than a few of those 38 aces
    off his *second* serve. Andre tried to cheat on what he thought would
    be a 'softer' serve, and Ivanesevic blew him away down the 'T' ....
    
    Great match to watch - and I seldom sit through a 3 set match - much
    less a 5 set match ...

My dad got to go to Wimbleton this year (last Tuesday).  He had court 1 tickets 
and watched Steffi and Martina play (not each other).  He then heard that 
Gabriella and Jennifer C were playing on Centre Court.  Well, like most 
red-blooded men, my dad has a very high opinion of Ms. Sabatini and waited 
outside Centre Court as people left (many locals leave around 4-5pm no matter 
the stage of the current match for tea or dinner or what not) asking them if 
they were done with their tix and could he have them so he could get in and 
watch the match.  Two little old British ladies gave him their tix, and next 
thing he knew he was there, 5th row, player side, and right in front of him 
she sat.  After sitting 5 rows behind the sweated-up Gabriella's chair at 
Centre Court at Wimbleton, he said he was tempted to quit his job, by a VW 
microbus, and go on the tennis tour.  But shhhhh, don't tell my mom!  8^)

Scott

Scott,

I'll drive his microbus for him, if he'll buy me a ticket to see her play...8^)


'Saw

    Besides his serve I think Goran played an average match. (well 5th set
    anyways) Reason why when the match was over Andre's  first serve 
    percentage was down under 35%. If 65% of the serves your looking at
    are second serves (which was the case for Goran) you should be able to
    win the set you play a good set. All he had going in that 5th set was
    his serve. That's why I kept waiting for him to put these second serves
    away but he was just keeping it in play. But wow what a serve.
    
    
                                                      Dan

    I guess everybody's just in awe and frozen with the action at the U.S.
    Open going on in NYC right now, right?
    
    Kev
    

Early rounds are real yawners.  the only exictement I saw was some guy named
O'Brien took a set from Courrier.

       Stephie's first set took 12 MINUTES!! Whole match took 42!
                                    Denny

    If anyone has a Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year issue they
    don't want to keep, can you send it to me?

�    If anyone has a Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year issue they
�    don't want to keep, can you send it to me?

Are they sold out already?

Walt,

Once I get mine and read it, yup you can have it. Just tell me where
to send it.

The Crazy Met

    I could buy a few copies, but if people are gonna toss 'em anyway, I
    may was well save 'em from the recycle bin...
    
    -Walt (who hopes his copy is in the mailbox today)...
    

I'll send ya mine after I'm through with it walt...


tell me where