Conference 7.286::sports_91

    I was horrified Friday night to see Coffey skate out for that
    first power play.
    
    No, not cuz I'm skeert a his speed and puck-handling  prowess.
    Cuz the main has a broken jaw wired together, a_injury that could
    be exacerbated by playing hockey to the point a permanent injury.
    
    I'm calling on the NHL here and now to force the Penguins to scratch
    Coffey from the Stanley Cup series.  Badger Bob has no business putting
    at risk the face a this fine player.  I am also calling on objective
    puck fans everywhere to join me in this high-minded campaing to stop
    this Coffey abuse.  JaKe, Charlie, show me that you value human jaws
    over what is in comparison a measly Cup and join me in this campaign to
    place face over this sad exhibition of win-at-any-cost mores.  Join MrT
    and other concerned hockey fans in calling on the Penguins to treat
    poor Coffey like a human bean and not like a piece a meat.
    
    MrT

    I cain understand what the Bruins fans were saying about this goon
    Ulf Samuelson.  Anybody see that unbelievable cheep shot he laid on
    Bellows Friday night?  30 ft. away from the puck and Ugly Ulf blind
    sides Brian with a skate-by job where he caught knees with him, lifted
    and threw, thus twisting Bellows' knee.  And no penalty.
    
    Gainey realized then and there that it was a mistake to've scratched
    Basil and Churla.  The Stars, incensed by Ugly's ugly act, left their
    game plan and went the revenge route and fell into the Pens' hands.
    Sunday night was a different story, with Basil and Churla put on the
    ice as a mainly message at the game's start when Coach Bob noticed that
    Badger Bob had his hatchet main on the ice with the first line.  So he
    put his "safety valves" on the ice too, and Ugly spent much a the night
    being wiped from the glass...
    
    Don't mess with the Stars.  They don't like the rough stuff, but
    they'll not be intimidated by Pittsburgh's cro-magnon goon tactics! 
    Even Modano is flexing some muscle.  Had to, said that he "was getting
    sick of Gordie Roberts skating around ignoring the puck trying to lay
    shots on people for no reason."
    
    Git 'em, Michael!  Let's not forget our priorities here.  Win the Cup,
    but separate a few shoulders and dislocate a few knee caps on the Pens,
    who right now make Chicago look like a Cub Scouts den in comparison!
    
    MrT(he North Stars)

    I'll join you there, T.  Not because Coffey is injured, but because the
    injury is making him timid.  He's not helping the team at all on the
    ice.
    
    Apparently, Lemiuex strained his back Sunday night as he bent down to
    tie his skates.  It was a total surpise to everyone when he didn't come
    out on the ice...including his teammates.  I don't think it would have
    made much of a difference, as the North Stars completely dominated
    after Pittsburgh failed to put the puck in during several good
    opportunities in the first period.
    
    	--dan'l

    Star light, Star bright
    
        Stars you make me feel so right
    
    Stars' might, Stars' fight
    
        Stars sneering at poor Pens' plight
    
    
    Star light, Star bright
    
        make star Lemieux's back too tight 
    
    Stars' flight, Stars' delight
    
        Star's soaring to 3-1 tonight
    
    
    O Star light, lovely Star bright
    
        Gordie & Ulf are goons of fright
    
    Stars' height, Stars' sight
    
        Stars cleanse Cup of a geeky blight
    

    Bootiful, simply boootiful...
    
    Ha - that's the best I've read in a looonnnggg time..
    
    
    JD

    
    Congrats for setting the record straight on Ulfie, T.
    
    Mark.

    Y'know, I never had les Pittsbourgeoisie pegged for being bloodthirsty,
    but Ugly Ulf has taken Stanley Cup hockey to new lows.  If they have
    any class out there they'd line up in the concourse when the Pens fly
    home after tonight's loss and beat the guy with heat-tempered broom
    sticks.
    
    MrT

    The grape growing must be danged good in the hills surrounding
    Pittsburgh.  No whine before it's time, and Badger Bob sez that
    now's the time.  
    
    The Pens were plastered all over local TV last night... whining.
    
    Whining about 10 minute bus rides to skate cuz there was a_ice
    show in the Met.  Whining about stiff mattresses in hotels (hey,
    Bob!, quit staying in those flea bags in St. Paul and maybe poor
    Mario would be able to show up for a Cup final!).  Whining about
    the press.  Just plain whining.
    
    Ugh.
    
    MrT(he North Stars)

    Hey T,
    	Haven't been able to watch any of the Series so far, but you see
    the light as far as the Swedish Meatball goes. Has he been jamming his
    right hand into Stars' faces all along and hiding behind his shield?
    This was the stuff that Neely got upset about. He don't mind getting
    the occasional right cross to the cheek as long as he cain give a jab
    or two back. Not wif Ulfie tho, he just hides behind his shield. Neely
    said he thought Samuelsson had a cast on his right hand cuz he felt 
    " a loaded glove" every time Ulfie chicken-(d) livered a yella-streak
    right to Cam's already misshapen pugnacious face thenst running and
    hidin. Me suspicions was semi-confirmed when said villian was noticed
    shakin Bruin hand wif his left. 
    
    Gotta root for the Stars cuz the Pens got Ulfie,
    
    MikeL
    

    re .9
    
    Ah, Neely is a quiche eating, limp wristed, zinfandel sipping crybaby.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Hey JaKe,
    What's wrong wif Zinfandel. Goes great with Vodka,gin,Hawaiian Punch
    and Ginger Ale in a Wineskin at football games
    
    MikeL
    

Whine, whine, whine about Ulfie.... 

Hahahahahaha....


$20 bucks to the first person that can go and tell all this to Ulfie's
face, about how he's a lilly-livered no good so and so etc etc etc.
If you prove to me you've done it, I'll hand over a Jackson....

(stiches would be acceptable proof)


8^) 8^) 8^)

'Saw

    Hey 'Saw,
     How's about a severe Charley Horse to da thigh from a knee-shot.
    Would that be acceptable troof?
    

I taint afraid of tellin' Ugly Ulfie to stock it up his arse. 
I do it in a heart beat. Just tell the big stiff to leave his
wimp shield at home.


Steve

    'Saw, 
    I'll bet if I offered Ulfie $10 of the $20, he'd take the money and run
    and not care what was said about him.
    
    I theorize that his problem stems from growing up under communist
    oppression.  Now he's just reacting the way that the communists would,
    someone gives ya a hard time, break their legs and see if they still
    give ya a hard time.
    
    Re Neely, does he wear an earring??  Does he drive a beamer???
    Does he live anywhere near San Fran???  He's a wuss, 'nuff said!!
    
    JaKe
    

    Come to think of it, Has anyone ever seen Cam Neely and Bernadette
    Kosar in the same place at the same time????Cam has that same whine!!
    
    JaKe
    

    There is no truth to the rumor that Neely lets lyndon byers drive.
    
    Mucho smileys
    

    Speaking of Neely and Byers, how long should we wait for REK's
    retraction?
    
    Mark.

    RE: Saying that to Ulfie's face for $20
    
    I might, but knowing how sleazy he is on the ice, he'd probably be so 
    low as to hit a woman.  Not worth the twenty bucks to have that waste
    of human flesh hit me.  'Saw, you just saved yourself $20!
    
    RE: A few back
    
    Neely drives a Porsche!  What a man! (BTW Mark, don't even think of a
    retraction from REK....afterall it takes a BIG man to admit he's made
    a mistake! 8^))
    
    Amazing how the PissburgH Pigpens fans have to resort to picking on 
    the BaHston Broons when they're playing the Stars.....
    
    Oh yeah, FYI, Samuelsson was born in Fagersta, Sweden.  Didn't know
    that was a communist country.  Who is that is the ::SPORTS geography
    expert??  I think I gotta go take a lesson!  8^) 8^)

�    that was a communist country.  Who is that is the ::SPORTS geography
�    expert??  I think I gotta go take a lesson!  8^) 8^)

	That would be MrT Jo, he's our "resident expert" on geography.

    
    
    >>Oh yeah, FYI, Samuelsson was born in Fagersta, Sweden.  Didn't know
    >>that was a communist country.  Who is that is the ::SPORTS geography
    >>expert??  I think I gotta go take a lesson!  8^) 8^)
    
    Ok, I admit, I fornicated up!!!
    
    I got Ulf's home of origin confused with Jarimir Jagr's.
    
    Sheez, Life's a bitch and then you marry one.
    
    BTW, somebody mentioned Scam Kneely back a few and that makes him fair
    game.
    
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Hey, what a minute - how did Cam Goon Neeley get involved in this note?
    
    Spare me.  The man is a goon, and a Yuppie goon at that - drives a
    Porsche, drinks whine coolers, and is a cheap shot artist (like most
    Broons).
    
    Ulfie didn't do any cheap shotting vs. the Broons - cuz the Broons are
    the cheap shot kings - they have a bunch of guys like Lizaro who hide
    behind the shield while wielding the stick.  
    
    Agaisnt the Stars, Ulfie has been really gooning it up, cuz the Stars
    don't have cheap shot artists - Ulfie would be the PERFECT Broon.
    
    JD

    
    
>>     <<< Note 154.19 by WMOIS::BARROWSJ "Golf club wielding psychopath" >>>
    
>>    Neely drives a Porsche!  What a man!
    
    If Scam Kneely was a REAL man, he'd be driving a beat up '72 Duster
    complete with a 340, bald rear tires and rust holes!!
    
    JaKe
    

    Luffy, what retraction? CAM_GOON and Byers have not said a word about
    it...
    
    REK

    The Pens BEAT the Stars tonite, 5-3.  The series is now once again
    equal at 2 games apiece.
    
    Pens penatly killing again excelled.  The Stars managed 2 power play
    goals tonite.  They now have 3 power play goals in something like 25
    chances.
    
    Pens held the Stars to NO SHOTS on goal for the final 7+ minutes.
    During those final 7 minutes, the Stars also had an almost 5 minute
    power play.  
    
    Back to the Civic Arena Thursday night for game 5.
    
    Thanks to the win tonite, I'll be able to watch the Pens take the cup
    in game 6!!!
    
    BTW, if I have to hear Gary Glitter's "Rock and Roll Part 2" another
    million or so times, I think I'll shoot myself.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Ulfies from FAGestra, Sweeden!! HA HA HA HA!! I thought the fella
    wore figure skates! HA HA!!! 
    
    Anyway, good game by the Pens lasted night. They came out on a mission
    to score the first goal and wound up with the first three! Ulfie tried
    his damnest to let the Stars back in it with a plethera of cheap shot
    penalties, but the Pens hung on. Casey probably took the mostest bone-
    headedness penalty so far, when he tripped Phil Bourque behind the net
    thus nullifying a minute and a half of a 5 minute major on the Pens.
    Stupid. Pens did a great job killing off that penalty BTW. 
    
    Oh ya, did I mention that Ulf was a goon. HTH
    
    
    
    Steve

    
    
    	I'd love to see the Pen's open up the Civic Arena's dome during
    one of these games.  It hasn't been done often, but it would be an
    amazing sight...The golden triangle in the background, with scores
    of fans watching from highrises as the Pens take their first Cup.
    
    
    								bill..g.
    

    REK, Kevin Paul Dupont reported in the Sunday Globe that Neely told him
    the alleged fracas was nothing more than Neely refusing to let Byers
    drive.  According to Dupont, Neely pushed Byers up against the wall and
    took his keys.
    
    So much for your "brawl".
    
    Mark.

    Great song, T.  I was rollin'.  
    
    I love the way Ulf hits.  Gets me pumped up and thigh-shuddering.  He's 
    also not a shabby player defensively.  I, as a proponent of clean, hard
    play, do wish he'd keep that right hand down out of the guy's face when 
    he checks, though.
    
    Great game from Mario last night at both ends of the ice.   Conn-Smythe 
    (if Pens win) to him or Stevens so far.
    
    Fantastic penalty-killing by both teams, but the Pens were monster
    gamers in the 5 minute major.  
    
    Casey continues to excel, but last night Barasso made the bigger saves.
    It appears that the Pens have started to beat him a little more
    consistently, much like they did later in the series against Moog.
    
    I called my parents who claimed my season tickets when I left the 'burgh 
    to let them know I'm issuing my reclamation rights for game 7.  If my
    boss lets me go, I'll be there for the clincher!
    
    Charlie
    

    Charlie, let's hope the Pens wrap this thing up in game 6.  I'd love to
    see the Stars fans (who are great fans....no knocking them) have to
    endure Mario holding Lord Stanley's Cup.  Party at Greater Pitt later
    that night.
    
    Opening up the igloo would:
    
    	- melt the ice (I think)
    
    	- create a void of crowd noise, but man would it be impressive
    
    They only open up the Civic Arena for concerts and rarely do they do
    that because it costs hundreds of dollars in electricity to do so. 
    Great idea, though.
    
    	--dan'l

re Neely/Byers:

	well, if he pushed him up against the wall to take his keys,
	what enquiring minds wanna know is


		DID HE STICK HIS HAND IN BYERS POCKET TO DO IT?

Releated questions;

	Was Byers carrying a roll of quarters?

	Was it as good for Feely-Neely as it was for Byers?


National Tattler needs to know......

    I have to echo what Dan'l said about opening the Igloo.  The weather
    for the rest of the week here is high 80's and the ice would become
    slush all too fast.
    
    JaKe
    
    PENS IN 6, Fer Sure
    
    
    

    Dan'l and fellow Pgh'ers
    
    There is a movement by some of the Pens fans here to try and get Myron
    Cope to sing the National Anthem, proceeded by his Penguin rap, before
    either game 5, or game 7, if the cup hasn't been firmly placed in the
    Pens hands beforehand.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    If the ambient temperature affected the ice surface that much, the
    Oilers and Bruins would have had to play on roller blades during last
    year's Stanley Cup final games at the Gahden.

    re.35
    
    How come you always come along and pi$$ in my Wheaties??????
    
    
    Jake
    

    RE: Myron Cope and the Nation Anthom
    
    Let's hope that they schedule it for game 7 and that this potential
    tragedy never takes place due to the Pens owning The Cup by then. 
    
    In my heart, though, I'd love to hear him do it.  I would think it
    would sound like Burgess Merideth's Mic from "Rocky" singing it...and
    we all know what character he played in "Batman"...and Batman is at the
    games.  The Convergence is upon us and it will happen at the igloo!
    
    	--dan'l

    Why don't you Pittsburgeoisie just drop the National Anthem altogether?
    After what you subjected the Nation to last week is one reason; the 
    other is that they kind a hockey you play runs counter to The Americain
    Way.
    
    MrT

    First the discombobulated Bobby Vinton in last year's NLCS, then last
    week's travesty, now Myron Cope?  Please, no, Pittsburgh's gonna give
    Rosanne Barr a good name...
    
    glenn
    

    
    	Back to opening up the Civic Arena..
    
    	I don't think the ice would melt.  As pointed out, the Bruins would
    of needed water skis quite a few times if the temp. had that much to
    do with it.  Acutally, I wonder what the temp is kept at inside anyway.
    Take 16K worth of fired-up people loaded with Iron City, and I'm sure
    the inside temp is near 80.  Now, if they open up the Civic Arena,
    the outside air temp at night could be in the low 50's to mid 60's..
    I think it would make for an impressive sight.
    
    	At least, if they win the cup at home, open it during the parade of
    the cup!  
    
    	There's not a more beautiful skyline than that of the Steel City
    with the added feature of the Pen's parading the cup around the rink.
    
    	On a side note about the opening of the dome, I think it has only
    been opened about 10 times in its near 30 year history.  One of those
    times I just missed.  It was a Pink Floyd concert just after they
    had released Dark Side of the Moon.  From what my friends said, it
    was a pretty awesome sight to be listening to Floyd and watching the
    night sky open up while they played.
    
    	Last I heard (about 5-6 years ago), it costs almost 10K to open
    the dome.  But until Toronto built their retractable dome, the Civic
    Arena was the largest retractable dome in the world.
    
    	Sorry for the digression...back to the program.
    
    				
    							bill..g.
    

    
    Remember Arena football?  The Pittsburgh team was the Gladiators 
    (I'm proud possessor of Pittsburgh Gladiators AND Pittsburgh Maulers
    t-shirts).   They opened the Arena for the 3rd home game in the
    first season.  The announcer said something about the first indoor
    football game outside.
    
    Charlie
    

    
>SHALOT::MEDVID "when our worlds they fall apart"     16 lines  22-MAY-1991 13:27
>    Charlie, let's hope the Pens wrap this thing up in game 6.  I'd love to
>    see the Stars fans (who are great fans....no knocking them) have to
>    endure Mario holding Lord Stanley's Cup.  Party at Greater Pitt later
>    that night.
    
    No way is that my preference!  Which is better: to torment some fans 
    or to get to go nuts with the players on your own ice?  Which would
    the Pens prefer?
    
    I agree that the NStars fans are (now) amazing!  During a pause in the
    game in the 2nd, they gave a 5-minute standing O!  Pretty fired up
    bunch of people.
    
    Charlie
    
    

   > Why don't you Pittsburgeoisie just drop the National Anthem altogether?
   > After what you subjected the Nation to last week is one reason; the 
   > other is that they kind a hockey you play runs counter to The Americain
   > Way.
    
   > MrT

    Hey T, Why don't you go backoff in your own jackyard????

    
    >	On a side note about the opening of the dome, I think it has only
    >been opened about 10 times in its near 30 year history.  One of those
    >times I just missed.  It was a Pink Floyd concert just after they
    >had released Dark Side of the Moon.  From what my friends said, it
    >was a pretty awesome sight to be listening to Floyd and watching the
    >night sky open up while they played.
    
    I was at a concert at the Arena in the late 70's, I think it was
    Electric Light Orchestra, and they opened the roof at the beginning of
    the first encore.  It was one of those 75 degree-full moon nights in
    the middle of the summer.   It was truly AWESOME!!!!!!
    
    Also, every summer there is a series called "The Civic Light Opera"
    that is done in the Arena with the Dome opened(weather permitting)
    and the seating theatre style.  Never been to one but heard it's pretty
    nice and is almost like an amphitheatre.
    
    JaKe
    

    1. Exactly what is the fuss about the national anthem at the first
    game?  I didn't see/hear it and no one is being specific.
    
    2. Doesn't it take something like two hours to open the dome?
    
    3. Is Mario back to 100% for tonight's game?
    
    4. Anyone know of a sports bar in Myrtle Beach, SC so I can watch the
    game Saturday night?
    
    	--dan'l

    Nyah... shaddap Squawk.
    
    Stars fans have supported a cruddy team the past 10 years.  The Gund
    brothers tried to stick up the state and city, failed, then got with
    SuperGeek Zeigler and put together an unbelivable deal where the Stars
    would be sold for $30 million but would bear the brunt of providing 
    players to the Gunds' expansion team in San Jose.
    
    It should be noted that the Stars attendance fell off the table when
    it 1) was open to question whether they'd remain in Minnesota, and
    2) it seemed that the Stars would be worse than an expansion franchise
    while the Sharks would start off with a leg up.
    
    MrT(he North Stars)

>    I cain't believe all this praise for the NorthStars pseudo-phans. 
>    And now, all of a sudden,
>    they're jam-packing the place and screaming their fool heads off for
>    "their" team.  
    
    You mean like Mr.T, "Born-Again-Stars-Fan-Now-That-They-Are-Good"?
    
    	--dan'l

    Stars rool.  'Nuff said.
    
    Mark.

    According to the last report I heard on Sportschannel about 8,000(!) new
    season tickets have been sold for the Stars' 1991-92 season.  The
    seating capacity is somewhere around 14-15k.  

    The key for the Stars is making a QUICK START.  Their last two 1st
    periods saw them in a daze.  First time Casey - hockey's premier
    goalie - shut them down.  Second time the defense was *so* bad that
    he relenquished 3 penetrations in the first 2:58.
    
    The Stars' style is such that they're not a good come-from-behind
    team.  They need to jump out on the Pengoons and they know it.
    
    Also, what in the hail has happened to their power play?  Playing a
    goon squad like the Pengoons means they gotta sexploit PP time, and
    they ain't did that.  Game 4 they get the puck to the blue and the
    other skaters would be on the opposite side a the rink from the puck
    handler.  The whole night it seemed like the Pengoons had one more
    skater than the Stars.  They were completely dominated the first half
    a the game, blowing chance after chance, often with beautiful centering
    passes going in front a the crease with no Star there to pick it up.
    Other times, a player'd get it to the blue with nobody skating with
    him or completely checked, and the puck handler'd end up slapping a
    long, and useless, attempt from way out.
    
    The game shoulda gone into OT anyway, with a sure goal robbed by a
    desperate Barasshole kicking the net off its moorings just before the
    score could be made.  There's a rule against that, but in the Pengoons
    case the rules are held in abeyance.  
    
    Stars don't have anybody but themselves to blame for the game 4 loss,
    with Bellows and Broten BOTH shanking open net shots.... they were
    Barasshole's best friend.  He didn't deserve the win but we gave it to
    him anyways...
    
    MrT(he North Stars)

    Speaking a_Perrier, Coronas and fern bars, how's the moonlighting job,
    Squawk?
    
    Mark.

    MrT!
    
    Surely you don't think Casey is the PREMIER goalie in the NHL?  I can
    think of one Patrick Roy who any team would pick over Casey!  Belfour
    might be considered, but will he suffer the sophomore jinx nexted(tm)
    year?

    Here are some a the products gracing my house:
    
    1.  Perriers (natural flavor, by the case)
    2.  Brie cheeses 
    3.  Heineken, Fischer, and Pilsner Urquell Beers 
    4.  Saab Turbos
    5.  Giorgio fragrances
    6.  Baguettes
    7.  Pates (goose liver in addition to du boeuf)
    8.  Maille moutards (Grey Poupon is low-class)
    9.  Smoked salmon
    10. Evian flat water
    
    Does this make me less a a main?  Then what is this ape-furred chest
    all about?  Does guzzling piss-water like Budweiser somehow make
    someone's more gonadial?
    
    And forget the ferns in the fern bars.  Everybody knows these places
    make the cash registers ring cuz a the fauna there, not the flora
    (i.e., the yupettes).
    
    re 1
    
    John Casey is the best goal tender there is.  And that's that.
    
    MrT 

    
    ........Hey Jo'.....T's right, so nah, nah!....Put that between yer
    crackers and bite it.                                           8-)
    
    Melster

>    Then what is this ape-furred chest
>    all about?
    
    What does how you dress for kinky sex have to do with anything, T?
    
    	--dan'l

    Oh, I forgot Squawkmeister, I also keep a bag or two of the Pepperidge
    Farm Goldfish crackers around too.  Really.
    
    MrT(ough)

    Gonadial!
    
    Too funny.
    
    Mark.

    
    
    >The game shoulda gone into OT anyway, with a sure goal robbed by a
    >desperate Barasshole kicking the net off its moorings just before the
    >score could be made.  There's a rule against that, but in the Pengoons
    >case the rules are held in abeyance.  
    
    T, you sure are reaching now.  If somebody else hadn't made that
    inference in here some notes back, you wouldn't have had anything to
    say about it.    Casey, although playing well, ain't the "GOD" of
    goaltenders.  Hell, even a blind pig finds an ear of corn once in his
    lifetime.
    
    Somehow, when I see your notes, T, I am reminded of the southerly
    facing end of a northbound mule.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    
    >John Casey is the best goal tender there is.  And that's that.
    
    >MrT 
    
    Yeah T, he's so great that the first period just ended and he didn't
    make it thru it.  He got nailed for 4 goals on about 7 shots.
    
    BTW, Casey is the best there is, huh????
    
    I guess that explains why Barasso has the best goals against average
    in the playoffs this year, right??
    
    It also explains why Barasso has the highest save percentage of the
    playoffs this year, Huh???
    
    Re Goons    North Stars   Basil McRae(sp?)
    Nice hit he put on Barasso to injure him.   Hope Pietrangelo shuts the
    NoStars down completely for the rest of the game.

    >>9.  Smoked salmon
    
    You forgot smoked baloney.
                             
    Second period is ready to go, Pens lead after 1, 4-1.
    
    THE PENS WILL PREVAIL IN 6!!!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    PENS!!!!!              PENS!!!!!            PENS!!!!!
    
    
    Pens HOLD ON to beat the NoStars, 6-4 tonite and now lead the Stanley
    Cup Final series 3 games to 2.
    
    Having Pietrangelo in goal, especially the way the NoStars were playing
    in the third period, gave me a sick feeling.  He just seemed to be down
    on the ice all too often.  The NoStars had a lot of chances that they
    wouldn't have had if Barasso had been in there.  Barasso pulled a groin
    muscle when being decked by Basil McRae in the first period.
    
    The Pens scored their sixth goal with under 2 minutes left in the game
    when Ron Francis and Troy Loney went into the Stars end and Loney went
    towards the net, the puck bounced off of the NoStars goalie and
    eventually was defelcted in off of a Nostars(name escapes me) skate to
    make it 6-4.
    
    Pens power play scored 2 goals but also gave up 2 short handed goals.
    The Pens once again shut down the NoStars power play.  
    
    
    ********************PENS IN 6!!!!**************************************
    
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
    Great update...thanks...
    
    B.A.

    Barasso's groin pull is termed "slight".
    
    The NoStar who kicked in the final goal for the Pens last name is
    Broten.  Troy Loney gets credit for the goal.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Elvis Boinked Cinderella!!!

    That goal off Broten's skate was a back breaker.  I really figured the
    Stars were coming back.
    
    Great game.
    
    Mark.

    JaKe,
    
    Will ya get a clue?  Its BaRRaSSo!!!!!!!  8^) 8^) 8^)
    
    RE:
    
    Elvis boinked Cinderella
    
    I couldn't believe that Sportschannel even showed that!  I was
    hysterical.
    
    Jo
    
    BTW, In the off-season I hope Phil Bourque learns how to measure
    his sticks!!!!! ;-)

    
    My only question in this whole sordid affair is *if* the Pens pull this
    thing off will JD be a main and give Mario his due... As I recall,
    there was a big argument a couple of years ago on Mario's merits in
    which JD brazenly proclaimed that the The Best would never win a 
    champeenship, forever distinguishing himself from the Great One.  At
    the time I wondered aloud whether Gretzky would ever sip the champagne
    again either, without the supporting cast in LA that he had in
    Edmonton.  Well, Mr. Mario, you're on the brink now with far less a
    team than ever graced Edmonton's championship ice while Wayne's at
    home again in Hollywood.  Congrats!  
    
    Did MrT ever answer the question of how he can in good faith endorse
    this Minnesota Miracle given his oft-stated opinions on open
    post-season tournament free-for-alls?  I don't believe I ever heard an
    explanation...
    
    glenn
    

  
   Big win for the Pens. That 6th goal was a killa! I can't see the Stars 
winning 2 in a row. It looks to me like they are starting to come un-glued
a bit. The 'guins(I don't know why but it seems ridiculous to call them
the 'penguins'!) are really playing a good brand of swarming defense, even 
though they let the Stars back in the game by sitting on the lead. They had
the Stars tied up at center ice and forced them into a dump and chase game
which is not the Stars style. I'm sure the fair weather fans in Minny will
be hyped for game 6, but will it be enough? 


Steve

    Wail, if the Stars must lose it's good to see the whole thing 
    cheapened by the Pengoons and the officials.  The two cross-
    checking calls were both bogus dive-jobs, the most ridiculous
    of the two the slight push that sent Lemiuex "crashing" to the
    ice behind the net.  5-3, Stars work themselves into exhaustion,
    bye-bye to any chance for a comeback from 4-3.  
    
    Then, to top it all of (or better put, to bottom it all out) they
    allow a goal kicked in a good two seconds after the goal had been
    pushed off its moorings by a Pengoon standing in the middle of where
    the net had been standing before he skated through both defenseman
    and goalie!  Two rules out the window: 1) No goals with net off, 
    2) no scoring from inside the net.
    
    Sigh.
    
    The 'Goons are more talented, faster, than the Stars.  They don't need
    this kinda bull.
    
    MrT

    RE: -1
    
    The rules were changed just last summer giving the referee discretion
    as to allow a goal with the net OFF of the moorings.

    Glenn -
    
    I'd stilltake Gretzky in a second over Mario.  The guy farts and the
    Hockey Night in Canada guys get an erection.   A strange year, with the
    Stars and Pens in the finals.  If the Pens win, this still doesn't make
    Mario out to be the new "great one".  He still doesn't impress me as
    much as others.  He's no Gretsky.  He's no Bobby Orr.   That's for
    certain.
    
    He does get away with murder, however.  
    
    I'll congrats Mario and the Pens - but to me the story of this final
    has been that Barrasso has finally put a couple of good games together.
    That and the penalty killing - the defense has done a decent job of
    laying back and denying.  However, the Pens have let up twice with
    leads.  I hope they realize these games are big games.  They should
    lhave scored 10 goals last night, but they gave up.
    
    If, and its a big if, Mario can carry this team so that it becomes a
    regular in the finals, then, and only then, will Mario approach the
    great one.  THe Pens have a great supporting cast.  Lets see if Marion
    can lead them to the promised land more than once (if they hold on...)
    
    JD
    
    Barrosso for hte MVP if they win, but Mr. Overhype will get it.
    
    

    >The rules were changed just last summer giving the referee discretion
    >as to allow a goal with the net OFF of the moorings.
    
    Which is entirely irrelevant to this case.  The rule change was
    intended to stop homo teams on defense from kicking off the net in
    order to save a goal (as the Pengoons have done serveral time this
    series).  
    
    In this case a Pengoon skated into the net, knocked down the goalie,
    knocked the net WAY off its moorings, then reached out with his skate
    and dragged the puck in.  GOAL !!
    
    Pengoons hAckey at its worst.
    
    MrT

    T, unless I'm confused about the goal in question, the puck went in
    off Broten's skate.
    
    Mark.

    A full two seconds, T?  What game were you watching?
    
    JD, Mario is a cream puff, but come on, give the guy his due.  Now that
    you might have to eat your words about Lemieux not leading Pittsburgh
    to a cup, you change the criteria.  Come on, you're a better noter than
    that.  
    
    	--dan'l

Not only did the puck go off Broten's skate, Broten pushed Loney into 
Hayward. It was just one of those goals the other team gets when your
busting your butt to tie up the game.



Steve

    
    	What is this, whinning about the ref's...again?  I thought that
    stuff only happened with Celtic fans?
    
    				

    >	What is this, whinning about the ref's...again?  I thought that
    > stuff only happened with Celtic fans?
    
    That's just MrT, jumping midstream bandwagon-style into a corrupt 
    sport he knows nothing about and then snifflin' and poutin' when he
    finds out that it ain't clean and it ain't "fair".  I'll be the first
    to admit that the North Stars are probably the most refreshing thing to
    happen to the NHL in years, but if you stop to think about it that says
    a lot about the way the league and its playoffs are set up, don't it?
    
    glenn
    

    The Pens deserve to win the whole ball of wax.  They have been down 0-1
    or 0-2 in every series they have been in.  Once they feel they can beat
    you, your dead.  Their defense isnt so swift, but they play a game of
    attrition, to beat us you must outscore us.  There are not to many
    teams that can outscore the Pens.  I expect the Stars to play a big
    game Six, but the Pens have to many guns.
    
    Greg
      

    Now that's not fair Glenn and you know.  All I'm doing is what I do
    best.  It's a crock of steam-table offal that Broten pushed Boner
    into the net, and mega-dittos on the bullsheet part about the Pengoon
    not pulling the puck back in with his skate.    Even the multitudes
    on the Pengoons bandwagon don't dispute the pussy calls that robbed
    the poor Stars a a chance to make a run in the last five minutes.
    
    No, I'm doing what a_objective analyst by nature must do: Pointing out
    the facts.
    
    MrT

    
    > to beat us you must outscore us
    
    What a concept!
    
    8^)
    
    Dickstah
    

    Re back somewhere    Ok, so it's BaRRaSSo, not Barasso, I'll adjust
    myself to typing the "R" twice...thanks
    
    Re "T"  If you weren't in here, we'd have very little to laugh at.
    I'd like to know if you were watchiung the same game as I was last
    night.  First, 2 seconds, HAHAHAHAHAH, if you got it down as 2 seconds,
    you better take your watch to the repair shop. 
    
    Second, Loney reached out and dragged in the puck with HIS skate...
    They only showed the replay three hundred zillion times and from twelve
    billion different angles and it they were all conclusive that the puck
    went off of Broten's skate, plus Loney was pushed into the replacement
    for, as you said it, "the greatest goal tender".
    
    I saw the net as coming off at the same time as the goal or slightly
    thereafter.
    
    Re the refs, I agree in a way, the refs are calling some bad penalties.
    BUT, and thats a big BUT, the NoStars have been getting away with
    MURDER thruout this series.  Was your cup and string cable system up
    when Either Loney or Recchi got a blatant cross-check right in front of
    the NoStar goal and nary a whistle sounded????  
    
    Go buy a book on Hockey, T, and come back in 27 years when the NoStars
    make it to the Stanley Cup final the next time.
    
    "T":==MR CLEMSUCK himself
    
    JaKe
    

                             
    > Now that's not fair Glenn and you know.
    
    But MrT, you miss my drift completely.  I don't know or care to know
    how bad the NHL officiating is or how goonish the Penguins are.  I 
    just think that it's a riot that you've "discovered" this pro hockey 
    thing and that you've *chosen*, voluntary-like, to engage in BROONS-
    style righteous indignation over it all.  Get a_holt of yourself, man!
    Pretty soon these endless NHL and NBA playoffs will be over and you'll
    be able to go outside again, free to go out in the fresh air and take 
    in the boys of summer again (well, strike the fresh air part in 
    Minnesota, alas), and before you know it the real men, the gridiron
    warriors, will be smashing at themselves in glorious and uncontrived 
    fury!  Just think of the wonderfulness of it (in stark contrast to
    these hockey goons taking phony dives and engaging in all these phony 
    wrestling matches)! 
    
    I'm really worried for MrT, people.  First this Hockey Krishna revival,
    and now the startling revelations in the Mike JN Memorial Junk Note.
    Objective anal-ist or not, I really think he's losing it...
    
    glenn
     

    Glenn
    
    Judging from his portrayal of the Pens sixth goal and his viewpoint of
    the games thus far, I think he got a bad batch of mushrooms or some
    other unclean halugeons somewhere.  Also, up there in Minnesota, they
    still haven't discovered coaxial cable and are running a can and string
    style of cable tv which is as effective as a screen door in a
    submarine.  That could be his problem with his assessment of the games,
    thru the fuzz on the screen, he can't make out which team is which and
    calls it as he hopes it, not as he sees it.
    
    JaKe
    

    I have come to understand that hackey fans are a_analog a the game
    itself: sneaks, cheats, and bellowing bleats.  JaKe, sad case, is 
    the worst analog of all.  It wasn't even close on that 6th goal, not
    even close.  He's not totally off the deep end, though, he DOES admit
    that the refs are going quick whistle whenver it looks like the
    Pengoons could use a power play.  
    
    Kudso JaKe !!
    
    MrT

    "T"
    
    Methinks you is drinking too much of the puss from the sore in your
    head.
    
    >>I have come to understand that hackey fans are a_analog a the game
    >>itself: sneaks, cheats, and bellowing bleats.
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Dunno T, from these descriptions, this is all I've ever seen in your
    notes over the last XXX years that I've been in notes.  All those plus
    paragraphs of meaningless inane drivel.
    
    Maybe we in ::SPORTS_91 should take up a collection to get you real
    cable TV and buy you a new watch.
    
    By the time we reconvene on Tuesday, Mario and the rest of the Pens
    will have skated around the rink carrying Lord Stanley's Cup elevated
    above their haids, while the NoStars went to their locker room to carry
    each other's cups in a little known ceremony notorius to losing
    Minesota teams.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    BTW T
    
    I agree that the Refs are wuick with the whistle, but only after
    turning their haid to let the NoStars own goonism go then turning back
    and nailing a Pen with a penalty for retaliating after being laid into
    for the umpteenth time in the game.
    
    JaKe
    

    Gotta get that finger fixed that keeps hitting "W" instead of "Q".
    
    JaKe
    

>RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JO "Be Excellent to Each Other"       28 lines  24-MAY-1991 12:31
>    Glenn -
>    
>    I'd still take Gretzky in a second over Mario.  
    
    Better take Messier, Kurri, Glenn Anderson, Coffey, Tikkanen, Lowe, 
    Moog, and especially Fuhr in that second, too, JD!  You might want
    to try to get Sather as your coach, too.  
    
    Surely it hasn't escaped your notice that the Oilers were essentially 
    the Campbell Conference All-Star team during 1983-1988.  They consistently 
    had 3 players in the top 10 scoring every year.  *And* they had All-
    Star goalie, Vezina trophy winner, Grant Fuhr.
    
    Surely it hasn't escaped your notice that Gretzky has NOT won the 
    Stanley Cup in LA.   And surely it hasn't escaped your notice that 
    the Oilers won ANOTHER Stanley Cup without Gretzky!  One man doesn't
    win the Cup, 20 men do.  (In the 80's, the pattern has been that 20 
    men led by a dominant center and backstopped by hot goaltending win 
    the Cup.)
    
    I agree that the Penguin TEAM, led by Mario, has to win 4-5 Stanley 
    Cups before Mario will be considered to have had the impact that
    Gretzky did.  Now the Penguins have the great scorers to complement 
    Mario.  Now the Penguins have the good front office.  They still may
    lack consistent goal-tending, but if Barrasso's play this year portends 
    his future play, then perhaps the Penguins have all the pieces they need.
    
>    If, and its a big if, Mario can carry this team so that it becomes a
>    regular in the finals, then, and only then, will Mario approach the
>    great one.  THe Pens have a great supporting cast.  Lets see if Mario
>    can lead them to the promised land more than once (if they hold on...)
    
    I agree.  Mario's individual skills are unsurpassed by anyone.  But
    he must perform over time and he must carry the Penguin team with him.
    
    Charlie
    
    
    

A year ago, he couldn't even bend over to tie his own skates.  Tonight,
he lifted the Stanley Cup trophy above his head, surrounded by the jubilant
Penguins he led to glory.

				-====- 

June, 1984.  A man sits alone in his hotel room.  General Managers from
across the league call, offering a fortune for a chance to sign a 18-year-old 
boy.  One Stanley Cup contender offers any 6 players for a single draft pick.  
The man denies them all and the next day drafts "From Laval Voisins, numer
soixante-six, MARIO LEMIEUX!".   The "most heralded athlete to ever come out 
of North America" was given the task of dragging the perennial worst team 
in the league to the top of the mountain.

Mario Lemieux scored a goal in his first NHL game on his first NHL shift.

Through MVPs, All-Star Games, scoring streaks, and 8-point nights he goes 
on to show that he has the skills to surpass any player who has ever played
the game.  He makes moves that take your breath away, he takes over games
as only one man has ever done before.  He breaks the records of the Great 
One whose records they said could never be broken.  Surrounded by mediocre 
players and worse coaches, that young superstar carries his team on his 
broad back for 6 years.  Finally, as his team slowly improves, his back 
gives out.  He may never skate again, the doctors say.  

Through agonizing pain, Mario fights to once again play the game he loves.
He would not be denied the chance to writ his name large on the roll of the
Cup, as he has already writ his name in the record book.

Finally, his team mired in 3rd place, the man whom God put on earth to play 
hockey returns to the ice.  Once again riding Route 66 through the heart of 
Pittsburgh, the Penguins win the Patrick Division, the Patrick Division 
Championship, the Wales Conference Championship...and the Stanley Cup.

The critics said, "Sure, he's a great player, but he's never WON anything."  
Today, along with a supporting cast worthy of his greatness, Mario Lemieux 
is a winner.

Who says Penguins can't fly?


Charlie

    Congrats to the penguins, and i wish i could have watched
    Ron  FRANCIS SKATE THAT CUP AROUND, BET HES STILL SMILING!
    
    way to go RON, YOU deserved it!
    
    dinz
    

It was an amazing win in utterly convincing fashion.

Ulf scored the first goal, and Ronnie scored a break-away goal in the
second period.  Mullen scored twice, and Barasso got his first (ever?)
shutout.

Especially nice was Jimmy Paek's goal -- scoring your first NHL goal in
the Stanley Cup final game ain't too shabby.


Like Dinz I'm happy for the ex-Whalers who inhabit Pens uniforms now.
Especially Ron Francis.  And you wanna talk class, here's a guy who had
his nose rubbed in it big time by the Whalers (non)Management.  I don't
know if I could have been as gracious upon winning the Stanley Cup as
he was.  He could have done a wicked bash job on EJ et al, but he didn't.

Anyone catch Phil Bouque's finac�e, "Big Red"?   YOWZA YOWZA YOWZA....


Great game!


Congrats to all you Pens fans, btw.....


'Saw

    
    Mario reigns supreme!  Long live Mario, the bestest player in the
    world!  (Maybe Barrasso should have been playoff MVP, but the
    second-highest playoff scoring total in history ain't no farce...)
    
    Francis may have been classy, but Barrasso really gave it to Buffalo
    big-time over his treatment there after posting the shutout in the
    ultimate game ("I've got the Cup and they don't...").
    
    One other note: since the legendary 1927 Yankees laid the wood to the
    Pirates in the World Series that year, Pittsburgh teams have gone an 
    amazing 8-0 in championship series.  Only a few of those Steelers'
    squads could really be called dominant, either.  It's a phenomenon
    that amazed me throughout the 70's, but when it comes to the very big 
    one, Pittsburgh fans don't know disappointment!
    
    glenn
    

    Congrats to Charlie Partee and teh few Pens fans in here.  Congrats to
    the Pens.  Congrats to the NoStars for a Cinderella race to the finals.
    Congrats to Tom Barraso - who played like he did as a youngster.
    Congrats to Mario - they went out and bought a team to go around him,
    and he finally produced something.  Now lets see if the Imposter to the
    Throne can do the repeat thang.
    
    JD

    Have to agree with Glenn on the MVP....thought that with his play in
    the last 3 games that Barrasso deserved the Conn-Smythe more than
    Mario.
    
    BTW, the Conn-Smythe has got to be the UGLIEST trophy ever!
    
    Now I wonder if the NHL will retire the Stanley Cup and get a new
    one or just add another layer to the current one.
    
    Anyone else see the story on the Stanley Cup in betwixt periods?  I
    couldn't believe that Peter Pocklington was so sleazy as to have his
    father's name put on the Trophy!

    The only regret I have from the final game is that I had to watch it on 
    Sportschannel instead of geting to hear Mike Lange call the game. 
    Lange has suffered thru a long list of lousy seasons.
    
    I think also that BaRRaSSo should have gotten the Conns Smythe but I'll
    live with it the way it is.
    
    The key to the Pens winning the Cup was the Pens outscoring the NoStars
    10-2 in the first period of the last three games.
    
    The breakaway goal by Mario was true highlight film material.
    
    Anybody want to patronize my new business, JaKe's Prognostications??
    I said before the series started "Pens in 6".
    
    Quick, Somebody pat my back so my arm doesn't break!!!!
    
    Hey "T", pretty silent today, HUH!!!
    
    NoStars fans now know how the Donks fans felt during the 55-10
    drubbbing at the hands of the 49ers.
    
    'Saw, I ditto ya on Borque's "Big Red".  Wowwie wow wow wow!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    
    	Can't believe the Pen's won it.  The Steel City reigns supreme
    again!  
    
    	Congrats to the Pens...and of course to all those Iron City fans!
    
    
    								bill..g.
    

    The City of Pittsburgh today held a reception/rally at Point State Park
    in Pittsburgh for the NHL Champ Penguins.
    
    There were a reported 80,000 fans at the rally.
    
    Saturday night when the Pens returned from Minnesota, there were
    ~20,000 fans at the airport to greet them.  
    
    Pretty good turnouts for the team which averaged almost 16,000/game
    this year.  ALL FAITHFUL.  Not like some team that was runners-up in
    the Finals who averaged something like 4,000/game then had hypocrites
    who came out in droves saying, "Oh yes, Muffy and I backed the Stars
    all season, I just couldn't make it to any games because the Beamer was
    in for repairs, and the quiche hadn't cooked all the way thru yet, Hrah
    Hrah"
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    re -1
    
    Jake,
    
    I  think that quote should start "T and I..."

    
    JD, you misspelled 'heir' as 'imposter' in .96
    
    
    HTH,
    Charlie
    

    Hi,
    
    Anyone in the 'burgh know if and when the Pens are coming to the
    White House?
    
    Someone mentioned Mike Lange earlier.  Any new sayings this year?
    I left town when he was buying Sam a drink and his dog one too.  He has
    to be one of the greatest announcers of all time - up there with
    "the Gunner".  (Totally unbiased opinion)
    
    I think Mario deserves the MVP all the way.  Tommie B. made some big
    saves but the play by Mario during that one stretch in the first
    period of Game 6 when they were shorthanded ... Nobody has ever been
    better.
    
    Also, thanks again to the Hartford fans for Ron Francis and ULF.  I
    really liked Cullen and thought Zarley was good but those two seemed
    to be the missing ingredient.
    
    Warren

Why should the Pens be invited to the white House? Why the heck are you guys 
getting so excited anyway? Everybody knows Hockey isn't a major sport. Get 
excited when the Pirates or Steelers win the big one again.

Or when the NHL joins the big leagues of professional sport.....

Metz

I'm refusing to celebrate Springfield winning the Calder Cup.  Big f-ing
deal.

The Whalers management has grasped on to that victory like a drowning man
catches a straw.  Like the over-confident Japanese preparing for Midway
with tales of their great victory still stroking their egos, the Whalers
management are using gallons of lacquer on their tiny woodies as they 
predict great things for this upcoming season.  Sure.....


TV3 Sportscaster Dave Smith gave a GREAT commentary the other night.
Here it is in its entirety:

	The Whalers have stated that they are not raising their ticket
	prices for the upcoming season.

	THEY WOULDN'T DARE!


I'd like to publicly thank EJ for the trade.  Francis was a huge favorite
in Hartford, and many, many people started keeping an eye on the Pens after
the trade.  The Hartford fans wanted to see a ring on Ronnie's and Ulf's
fingers, and if they had to be traded to do it, fine.  Congrats boys....

Finally, I don't think they call her Big Red because she's tall and
has red hair 8^)

'Saw

    Eddie DeBartolo announced that he has no plans to sell the Penguins.
    
    He did announce the teams three priorities for the off-season, those
    are:
    
    Kevin Stevens, Mark Recchi, and Ron Francis.
    
    Eddie said he will do everything he can to sign these three players,
    but also stated that ticket prices will go up as a direct result.
    
    Hell, a summer without the announcement that Pens ticket prices will
    raise would be like a fall without Dr. Midwife claiming that Warmand
    Mooned is the greatest QB ever.
    
    DeBartolo has lost $24 million since he took over the Pens 10 years ago
    and I guess he wants to make it up in one or two years.
    
    BTW, Pittsburgh is just the 11th franchise to win Lord Stanley's cup.
    
    Speaking of the cup, lasted night on the radio they were telling
    stories of things players did with the cup in the thrill of victory.
    
    There were tales of then Oilers taking it to a stripper joint and some
    of the goings on, etc.   
    
    Well, Mario had a party at his place the other night and somebody(name
    was not disclosed) jumped into the pool, cup in arms, and broke the cup
    portion off of the trophy, necessitating some repair work.  Sheez, give
    a guy a few drinks......
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Hawk,
    
    I'd be questioning the choice if the great One did what Mario did. 
    Wrong again, Hawkster.  I'd say Fuhr was the MVP of many of the Oilers
    triumphs.   Without Barrasso, the Pens don't win the cup - no matter
    what Mario does...
    
    JD

Hey JAKE, 

If you don't want to pay more for tix, you could become a Whaler fan.  They
aren't raising their tix prices this season!  8^)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....

I'd pay more money for tix, gladly, if that Cup was on display in Hartford....

And Pittsburgh is lucky to have Francis.  He's a very community oriented player
who does a lot of things to improve it....

'Saw

    >"Mr. T knows how Donks fans feel"

    For your information Mr. Smarty-Pants I *am* a Denver Broncos fan
    and have been for 20 years!
    
    re: Pengoons' Crass Cup
    
    Lookit it objectively: The Class Stars were bone tired, having fought
    their way - heroically, proudly -  through the 3 top teams in the NHL
    this year (Blackhawks, Blues, Oilers).  Meanwhile, the craven 'Goons
    hacked their way through a line a "competitors" who woulda had trouble
    advancing through the WCHA playoffs.
    
    Too bad the NHL doesn't seed the playoffs a la the NCAA.  That way we
    coulda found out for certain just who the best squad in the '90-'91
    NHL actually was.
    
    MrT

  <<< Note 154.110 by ANGLIN::SHAUGHNESSY "Plato,Homer,Voltaire,BobKnight" >>>

    > Meanwhile, the craven 'Goons hacked their way through a line a 
    >"competitors" who woulda had trouble advancing through the WCHA playoffs.
    
    Whoa!  Careful there big fella.  Us Broons fans resemble that remark.
    
    Mark.    

    
    
    >>For your information Mr. Smarty-Pants I *am* a Denver Broncos fan
    >>and have been for 20 years!
    
    Hell if that's the case, answer me a ???.  Did tgame 6 bring back any
    haunting feelings??? (8^)*
    
    >>Lookit it objectively: The Class Stars were bone tired, having fought
    >>their way - heroically, proudly -  through the 3 top teams in the NHL
    >>this year (Blackhawks, Blues, Oilers).
    
    Oh Christ, Here come the excuses!!!!!!
    
    Just face it, "T", the Pens beat the frogsnot out of the NoStars and
    deserve the cup.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    >the Pens beat... the NoStars... 
    
    No arguin' about that.
    
    >... and deserve the Cup.
    
    HALT.  Like I said, do they?  What if the Pens had to fight their 
    way through the 3 best teams in hockey to make the Finals?  What then?
    Would they'd a been too pooped to keep up in the center ice?  Too
    emotionally drained?  Quite possibly.  As I said, the route they took
    to the finals more resembled the WCHA playoffs than any playoff hockey;
    the Stars' route looked a helluva lot like Murderer's Row.
    
    And, as I said, the other sad aspeck a all this is *Pittsburgh*, of all
    places, winning the Cup.  Better Los Angeles!  My *gawd*, I mean... the
    Steel City, where ice skates are associated only with Mickey Mouse,
    Goofy, and Dorothy Hammill?!  Nearly all Candians were rooting for the
    Stars, and the reason for that is that the Twin Cities are hockey towns
    with most kids lacing up every night after dinner to play pick-up
    hockey under the lights on the outdoor ice on hundreds of park rinks.
    
    Pittsburgh?!  It's as if Johnny C. Wadd Holmes and Ron Jeremy rolled
    out their fire hoses and decided to pee in the grand old Cup.  YUCK.
    
    This is the year a Hockey Sacriliege and Pittsburgh is the dirty altar
    (the Igloo, fake Elvis impersonators and cellulitic old ladies jiggling
    in the stands) on which this perverted accident happened !!
    
    MrT

    Hey T, go to the Library and do some research afore you attack 
    (enter manly intro music here) "PITTSBURGH" again.
    
    You act as if we are Florida, with an average temp of 75 degrees year
    round.
    
    Well maybe our streams don't stay frozen until the 4th of July as they
    do up there in Minny-soda, but they do freeze(normal winters) for most
    of the winter.   I played hockey on a frozen stream every winter from
    the ages 13-18.  If only I ever woulda learned to skate
    backwards!!!(8^)*
    
    Pittsburgh has had hockey teams, either in professional or amateur
    leagues dating back to 1923, so don't try and make it like Pittsburgh,
    since the Pens are*ONLY* 24 years old, is in it's hockey infancy.
    
    >>Nearly all Candians were rooting for the Stars
    
    Breaks my freakin' heart that they were distapointed!!!!
    
    The NoStars, at least in games 1-5 never seemed to quit.  Games 4 & 5
    the Pens jumped out to leads that woulda put a tired, "pooped" to use
    your term, team outta the game after period one.  The NoStars fought
    their way back in each of these games only to fall short.  I didn't get
    the chance to see but 2 of the games but from what I read, heard and
    saw, the NoStars didn't play like a bunch of tired out overachievers.
    They played fairly good hockey but finally met their match and
    Cinderella's coachmen turned into, what else, PENGUINS!!!!!
    
    Give the NoStars were tired little boys crap a rest!!.
    
    JaKe
    

    > Too bad the NHL doesn't seed the playoffs a la the NCAA.  That way we
    > coulda found out for certain just who the best squad in the '90-'91
    > NHL actually was.
      
    Even the NCAA (and MrT by public proclamation) has trouble with
    admitting "moochy-mooch welfare-state" teams with losing records 
    into their little party...
    
    Sacrilege?  Certainly no more so than those pansy-assed hanky-waving
    great-outdoors-fearing dome-dwelling baggy-worshipping noise-metering
    "carpet"-bagging front-running nouveau-crass Minnesota "Twinks" fans of
    a few years ago.  Oh, lemme guess, the present morgue-like state of the
    MetroDome is strictly due to mismanagement and duplicity on the part of
    the notorious Pohlad brothers, and no reflection whatsoever on the fine
    upstanding people of Minnesota...
    
    Did I read correctly that the No Stars drafted Guy LaFleur in this
    re-entry thing?  Hahahahahaha.  Sorry, guys, you can't buy class...
    
    glenn
    

    >the present morgue-like state of the MetroDome
    
    Whaddya talking about *now*, Wagglebrain?  The Twerps are drawing 
    just fine, even despite their mediocre team.  Get yer facks straight
    willya.
    
    re: last 2
    
    Ok, based upon the inputs from you two (read: fluff) it's agreed: The
    North Stars chances in the Cup Finals were damaged by the heavay
    westaward tilt in the quality of NHL hockey right now, and that the 
    Pengoons' piss-filled Cup is therefore much cheapened.  Thank you over
    and OUT.
    
    MrT

    >>the present morgue-like state of the MetroDome
    
    > Whaddya talking about *now*, Wagglebrain?  The Twerps are drawing 
    > just fine, even despite their mediocre team.  Get yer facks straight
    > willya.
    
    I apologize, T.  The Twinks' attendance last year, 20th out of 26
    teams, is indeed most excellent in light of the North Stars' general 
    level of support, especially so considering the ownership situation and
    the number of other things to do in Minnesota and the attractions of
    downtown St. Paul and blah blah blah blah blah...
    
    > Ok, based upon the inputs from you two (read: fluff) it's agreed: The
    > North Stars chances in the Cup Finals were damaged by the heavay
    > westaward tilt in the quality of NHL hockey right now, and that the 
    > Pengoons' piss-filled Cup is therefore much cheapened.  Thank you over
    > and OUT.
    
    I acknowledge that the Penguins' chances were improved by playing in
    the Wales conference.  I guess I missed this "point" within all of the
    "substance" of your opinions on the city of Pittsburgh and the style of
    the Penguins' play, especially what with you being a confirmed hockey 
    expert, prone to seeing things others don't and all.  Last I checked, 
    though, conference association in the playoffs is the way it's done in
    all major professional leagues (your beloved Broncos being a most
    grateful and willing recipient of that policy), the major difference 
    with the NHL being that most leagues require a division title (which 
    the Penguins had) or something close to it to qualify.  Whose title 
    is "cheapened"?
    
    MrT, you've managed to undo most of what you've stood for in the name 
    of "quality" in the attainment of sports titles over the years with 
    this brief yet tawdry, ill-advised one-night stand with the North 
    Stars.  Was it worth it?  Will you be able to live with yourself in 
    the morning?
    
    glenn
    

    > Too bad the NHL doesn't seed the playoffs a la the NCAA.  That way we
    > coulda found out for certain just who the best squad in the '90-'91
    > NHL actually was.
    
Out of the 16 teams that made the playoffs, Chicago was 1st overall
while Minnesota finished 16th. Therefore,....WHAT'S YOUR POINT.

Andy

    
 >> <<< Note 154.116 by ANGLIN::SHAUGHNESSY "Plato,Homer,Voltaire,BobKnight" >>>
 >>                    -< then we have consensus on this... >-
    
>>    Ok, based upon the inputs from you two (read: fluff) it's agreed: The
>>    North Stars chances in the Cup Finals were damaged by the heavay
>>    westaward tilt in the quality of NHL hockey right now, and that the 
>>    Pengoons' piss-filled Cup is therefore much cheapened.  Thank you over
>>    and OUT.
    
>>    MrT

    Lessee, my last reply was in .114.  Where did I say anything that
    "cheapens" the Pens winning of the Cup.
    
    Fack:  For the next year, the Stanley Cup resides in Pittsburgh, so "T"
    if you can't get that to sink into your haid, take it to CRY::BABY
    where your arguments belong.
    
    Over and Out,
    
    JaKe
    
    

    >Whose title is "cheapened"?
    
    Why, Pittsburgh's, of course.
    
    And your wailing about how I allegedly prostituted my principles is
    without merit.
    
    As for *you*, JaKe, YOU are what the zoologists term a "sore winner."
    
    MrT

    > And your wailing about how I allegedly prostituted my principles is
    > without merit.
    
    Please 'splain the apparent contradictions then.  (And I don't want to
    hear any of that macho WPA-project bricklayers crap... where were 
    these guys all year, and what in the hail were they doing in a
    suddenly legitimate playoff system that you've railed against in the
    past!?)
    
    glenn
    

    Hahahahaha........sounds just like Bruins/Whalers fans with team names
    substituted for Penguins/North Stars!
    
    Keep it up guys, this is entertaining to say the least.

    > Hahahahaha........sounds just like Bruins/Whalers fans with team names
    > substituted for Penguins/North Stars!
    
    The best part of it is that between T and I we've probably seen about
    two NHL games in person total (I've only got one and am proud of it--
    being from the great state of Minnesota and considering his offensive
    comments towards the city of Pittsburgh I'm *sure* that MrT has 
    attended many college and amateur games, though). 
    
    The difference between us in this matter, however, is that I have 
    honor... ;-)
    
    glenn
    

    >and what in the hail were they doingin a suddenly legitimate 
    >playoff system that you've railed against in the past.
    
    What were they doing in it?  Playing?  And Herr Ziegler legitimized
    it, not poor MrT.  
    
    There is no contradiction expressed or implied - none, zilch, zip,
    nada, non, rien, zero, nein, uh-uh, 0.00% - between my highbrowed
    stand against TV producer sports pimpery of playoff formats and my 
    heartfelt classy support of the North Stars' Stanley Cup run.
    
    If there were, you woulda outlined it.  Instaid, 3 weeks later and
    you're steal stuck merely implying it!  Haa.  Bien, je suis correcte
    (comme habitude), et j'ai victoire deja!  HAAAA.
    
    MrT

    
    >>As for *you*, JaKe, YOU are what the zoologists term a "sore winner."
    
    >>MrT
    
    Yeah, Right "T".
    
    Who opines that the Pens title is "Cheapened"?
    
    Who claims that the Pens won the title thru "goonism"?
    
    Who claims that a beautiful city like Pittsburgh shouldn't be allowed
    to win the Stanley Cup?
    
    Whose team averaged only a handful of people attending their games
    UNTIL they made the playoffs, then their "fans" came out of the
    woodwork like cockroaches with cockamammie excuses as to why they
    couldn't attend beforehand????
    
    Not Pittsburgh, that's for sure.
    
    You are the one who is bitching about the Pens having the "Cup".
    
    What the f__k did I say that makes me a "sore winner".
    
    Sounds more to me like you're afflicted with "let's demean the winner
    cause we lost" syndrome.
                                
    I'm tired of having a war of minds with you cause you're unarmed!!
    
    THE PENS WON THE CUP, and next year your (No)Stars will be lucky to win
    25 games, whilst the Pens will be firmly on the road to a repeat
    championship.  
    
    May the Sacred Cow of India leave a deposit on your Pillow, "T"!!
    
    BTW what does "T" stand for????    Toddler????
    
    
    JaKe
    

    >Whose team averaged only a handful of people attending games 
    >UNTIL they made the playoffs...
    
    There goes JaKe-the-Sore-Winner again.  This time blabbing with
    this fibbery about how the Stars were averaging only a few thou
    a game until the playoffs started.  Not true.  Not true at all.
    But that doesn't matter to the Pengoon players or to their feigns,
    now does it.  Just make it up however you like for appearance's
    sake.  Sad.
    
    1) Pittsburgh not only has no ice outside, they also have the NHL's
       worst ice (mush?) inside.  Ever heard a refrigeration systems?
    
    2) Pittsburgh is such a rotten feign town that they failed to sell
       out NLCS playoff games last year.  World's shortest book?  Registry
       of Hockey Players From Pennsylvania.
           
    3) Many were hoping that this Cup Final would lay to rest the rule
       that cheating was a prerequisite to winning.  Enter Ulf-the-Under-
       Handed to lay *that* hopeful thought to rest.
    
    Bah.
    
    MrT

    Just returned from Myrtle Beach.  We got to watch game 6 on big screen
    with about 40 other Pens fans.  What a great time.  I was with my
    little southern gal Trena and she got to see her first hockey game. 
    What a great one to see.  She loved it.  And she loves the Pens!
    
    Pens with the Stanley Cup will be on the Weaties box in the next few weeks.
    
    Thanks for all the notes in here.  I got to relive the whole experience
    once again.  I get chills thinking of Mario's shorthanded breakaway. 
    Even Jimmy Paek scored!  And to hear T crying so, I can imagine how the
    rest of the born-again-stars-fans are doing.  
    
    RE: Pittsburgh not losing a championship game or series since 1927
    
    The SportsChannel posted a list of teams (including the Triangles) that
    had all won.  Now a few questions:
    
    	- can anyone reproduce the list?
    
    	- is there a poster or T-shirt floating around Pittsburgh with such
    	  a list on it?  If not, there will be as soon as I can get the
    	  list and make a few phone calls.  I can use some extra cash and
    	  that certainly would sell in the City of Champions.
    
    But not to spoil the party: didn't the Pittsburgh Gladiators lose the
    indoor football championship in 1988?
    
    	--dan'l

    --dan'l,
    
    I, too, saw that list that the Sportschannel announcers produced.
    
    The key element to the statement was the word 'finals'.  I don't
    know the exact quote, but they said whenever a PittsburgH team
    went to the Finals, the won.  Could this explain the '88 question
    you have?
    

    Since the Pirates were wiped out in 4 straight by the 1927 Murderers
    Row Yankees, no Pittsburgh pro team in a major sport has reached its
    championship final and lost.  This includes:
    
    the 1990-91 Pittsburgh Penguins
    4 Super Bowls by the Steelers
    3 World Series by the Pirates
    
    It could also include the 1967-68 Pittsburgh franchise in the ABA,
    which I believe was called the Condors, which had Connie Hawkins (among
    others) on the team.  Don't know about the Gladiators or the Triangles.
    
    John
    

    I thought that the Gladiators played the Chicago whatevers in the first
    indoor football championship game.  I may be wrong.  Maybe it was a
    playoff game.
    
    That list was amazing yet true.  No professional Pittsburgh team has
    ever lost once in a final game or series since 1927.  I've got to
    believe I'm wrong about the Gladiators since that list included several
    obscure Pittsburgh professional teams.
    
    	--dan'l

    
    
    	Dan'l, the list I saw did not include the Triangles, or the
    Gladiators.  I too seem to recall that the Gladiator's were in the
    finals.
    
    	Anyway, the quote I saw, mentioned 8 finals; 4 with the Steelers,
    3 with the Buc's, and 1 with the Pen's.
    
    	And, the Pittsburgh ABA franchise was indeed the Condors, but 
    they never made it to the ABA finals as I recall.
    
    	Maybe the powers to be were only considering the "big 4"?
    
    								bill..g.
    
    

    The most troubling thing about Pittsburgh "winning" this Championship
    is the Pittsburgh Feign.  They failed to sell out Pirate NLCS games 
    last year.  Sure,  for a year or two the glow a victory will bask in 
    the Steel City.  But then what?  Is it time for DeBartolo to look at
    moving the franchise to a hockey town?  Milwaukee, perhaps?  Or how 
    about Seattle?  Maybe Denver is ready for another shot.   
    
    But, pu-leeze!, put the squad somewhere where fans are fans and they
    know how to skate.
    
    MrT

    Hawk -
    
    The real test of how 'great' the hockey fans of Pittsburgh are will be
    when "Super" mario retires.  I dont' remember the fans flocking to the
    Pens before then.  Now that they've been winning a few years, the fans
    have been flocking to the games.  We'll see.  The fans in New York,
    Boston, Montreal, etc., have been going to the games year in, year out
    - take the Rangers (please!) - no champeenships in 50 years, but they
    seel the Garden out every night.  ANd they don't have a draw like
    Mario.
    
    
    You've seen really against the No Stars fans - Minny used to have good
    attendence, the Gunds almost kilt the team.  The Fans stayed away. 
    Hopefully they'll start coming back - if they don't, then I'll agree
    that the playoffs attracted teh quiche eaters ;-)
    
    JD

> They failed to sell out Pirate NLCS games last year.
    
    Yeah, big deal, they failed to sell out a couple hundred blocks of the
    lousiest overpriced upper-deck nosebleed seats.  Not that unusual, but
    for some reason Pittsburgh received all the negative attention.  My 
    brother had no problem walking right up to the ticket office and 
    buying seats in Cincinnati on the day of the game for the very same 
    NLCS.  Baseball-crazy Cincinnati had a problem moving all their tix, 
    too.  How come we don't hear about that?
    
    'Course we shouldn't pay too much attention to a guy whose hails from a
    city where they'll only watch their baseball under the most sanitized
    of conditions ("we can't have people coming to the park from all over
    the state and then have it rain...boo hoo hoo"), and even then just
    barely...
    
    glenn
      

The List:

	Steelers 1974, 1975, 1978, 1979
	Pirates  1960, 1971, 1979, 1991?
	Penguins 1991
	Triangles 1975   (World Team Tennis:  Featuring Ken Rosewall, Evonne
				Goolagong, Vitus Gerulitus.  Also a very
				cute mixed doubles player - Renee Fox!
				They were owned by a guy named Frank Fuhrer
				who was the George Stienbrenner of WTT - he
				once made Goolagong cry).
	Pipers    1968	 Pre-Condors.  Did have Connie Hawkins.  I can't
				remember what happenned to them.

	Pirates also won in 1909 and 1925. Lost in 1903 and 1927 - the only
	two losses in Pro Finals Pittsbugh History.

re .-1

	Piitsburgh sold out a vast majority of the hockey games this year - and
	has the last several years - when they didn't even make the playoffs.

Warren 

>>  <<< Note 154.132 by ANGLIN::SHAUGHNESSY "MrT: SPORTS' Objective Analyst" >>>
                                                                    ^^^^^^^
                                                                    ^^^^^^^
    Hey "T", shouldn't this read "MrT: SPORTS' Objective Anal Cyst"???
    MeThinks it should.
    
    
    >>  The most troubling thing about Pittsburgh "winning" this Championship
    >>is the Pittsburgh Feign.  They failed to sell out Pirate NLCS games 
    >>last year.  Sure,  for a year or two the glow a victory will bask in 
    >>the Steel City.  But then what?  Is it time for DeBartolo to look at
    
    >>2) Pittsburgh is such a rotten feign town that they failed to sell
    >>   out NLCS playoff games last year.  World's shortest book?  Registry
    >>   of Hockey Players From Pennsylvania.
    
    MsT:  Before the NLCS started the Pittsburgh Pirate baseball club
    announced that the games were all sold out.  
    
    Then, just before the first game that was played in Pittsburgh, the
    Pirates discovered that they had a SNAFU and had many tickets left.
    The Pirates have admitted that they made no large press announcement of
    the available tickets because it could have brought embarrassment upon
    their marketing dept.  There was a big stink over this in the off
    season here because they didn't announce that there were these tickets
    left.  Had the announcement been made, the stands would have been full.
    So go suck an egg over this one.  But I know, being the analcyst you
    are, you'll still argue fans not club!!
    
    >>3) Many were hoping that this Cup Final would lay to rest the rule
    >>   that cheating was a prerequisite to winning.  Enter Ulf-the-Under-
    >>   Handed to lay *that* hopeful thought to rest.
    
    A).  Who are the many, you and your Mom?????
    
    b)Cheating-Blow it out you dirt chute, bozo.  The dirtier of the hits
    thruout the series was from the Minny-Brained No-Stars, but being so
    freakin' "objective", you failed to see the scum pouring forth from the
    no-Stars.
    
    As for ice in Pittsburgh outside, I've crossed the Allegheny river on
    foot during the winter here, and it was FROZEN not scummed over like
    your swimming pool.
    
    You're searching for bogus crap to pin on Pittsburgh.
    
    Lessee, the Pens averaged 16,000+/game, the No-Stars averaged, what,
    slightly over 6,000/game WITH Dorky giveaways to entice people into the
    stands.   Sounds like a comparative "handful" to me.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    The list the SportsChannel showed last Saturday included the Triangles.  
    For those of you wondering, the Triangles were Pittsburgh's pro tennis
    team and the big star was a young Evon Goulagong (sp?).
    
    T, isn't it about time you jumped on some other bandwagon and let your
    envy of Pittsburgh stop corrupting your usually rational, yet
    geographically-flawed notes into Knorr-like fantasy?
    
    I called my parents from the beach the Sunday after the Penguins
    wrapped it up.  My dad had to cancel his golf game that morning because
    of the great number of fans trying to get to the airport to greet the
    Pens and The Cup.  So many, they caused a traffic jam over five miles
    long, prompting many to abandon their cars right on the parkway and
    walk the distance to the airport.  
    
    My dad sent me a cartoon from the Pittsburgh Press' editorial page.  It
    was of a Steeler and a Pirate, already on a pedestal, lending a hand to
    a Penguin player to assist him in getting on the pedestal also.  This
    was even before the championship series.
    
    	--dan'l

    > The real test of how 'great' the hockey fans of Pittsburgh are will be
    > when "Super" mario retires.  I dont' remember the fans flocking to the
    > Pens before then.  Now that they've been winning a few years, the fans
    > have been flocking to the games.  We'll see
    
    A gross misrepresentation.  Penguins' attendance was good but not great
    when I was going to school in Pittsburgh before Mario arrived, and it
    boomed after he got there even though the then-foundering franchise 
    failed to make the playoffs year after year even with The Franchise in
    the fold.  I remember going back to Pittsburgh one Thanksgiving about 
    5-6 years ago and not even being able to buy a ticket to see an early-
    season game featuring this last place club!  Contrast this with the
    whiny-faced North Stars fans who demand a Stanley Cup contender up 
    front before they'll even consider parting with a coupla lousy bucks!
    
    If truth be told, all things considered, I'll admit that the city of
    Pittsburgh supports its shiny-new hockey team more finely than their
    tradition-laden baseball club.  Not something I'm particularly happy
    about, but the truth...
    
    > You've seen really against the No Stars fans - Minny used to have good
    > attendence, the Gunds almost kilt the team.  The Fans stayed away. 
    > Hopefully they'll start coming back - if they don't, then I'll agree
    > that the playoffs attracted teh quiche eaters ;-)
     
    The verdict is in from at least one *true* Minnesotan.  Old friend Spud
    was lamenting the bandwagon-jumping qualities of his fellow staters in
    the BASEBALL file and the damage it was doing to Twins' support (can't
    expect Minnies to execute their canned front-running routine for two
    teams simultaneously, can we?).  I for one am inclined to go along with 
    the judgement of a straight-shooter like Spud than a bluff-and-bluster
    guy like ol' T...
    
    glenn
      

    
    
    >>T, isn't it about time you jumped on some other bandwagon and let your
    >>envy of Pittsburgh stop corrupting your usually rational, yet
    >>geographically-flawed notes into Knorr-like fantasy?
    
    hey Dan'l:
    
    Think if we ignore him, he'll maybe like "go away", or will he be like
    a bad hemmorhiod(sp?) and keep coming back for more?????
    
    JaKe
    

    re: .136 (list of the Burgh's championships)
    
    ...just getting caught up here
    
    The Pipers won the 1st-ever ABA championship in the 1967-68 season,
    then moved to Minnesota (ironic, considering the train of notes here)
    to become the Minnesota Pipers for 1 year.  They then moved back to
    Pgh. the next year and were renamed the Condors.  I don't remember if
    Connie Hawkins was with the original Pipers, or if he showed up when
    the Condors arrived.
    
    Also, could any of you AHL fans|{people with a record book} check
    something...did the Pittsburgh Hornets (the Pens' AHL predecessors) win
    the Calder Cup in the 1966-67 season?  I went to the last Hornets game,
    and vaguely remember that they won the Calder Cup that year over
    Hershey.  Correct, or just a figment of my then 8-year old mind?
    
    As to the Cup, etc...(then back to read-only)...I went to some
    horrendous Penguin games going back to the early years and saw some
    pretty bad teams; it's great to see them win.  Seeing the Bucs running
    away with the NL East, and hoping for a good Steelers team this fall,
    it's once again fun to be a Pgh. sports fan.
    
    

    This is great, this has turned into a classic "My city is better than
    your city, my fans are better than yours, nah nah nah nah nah" note.
    
    We've now had the obligatory "fans greeting the team en masse" the
    note, the proof the other cities' fans aren't 'real' fans note, the
    other city fans are 'bandwagon jumpers' note, the oh yeah, lets look at
    history note, blah blah blah.
    
    Its gone from every game a sell out to the mass majority to the
    historical perspective.   The fact that historical perspective for the
    other city doesn't count doesn't seem to phase anybody.  
    
    Fans are fans.  They will root for a winner, or they will root for a
    tradition, or they will root cuz it is trendy.  The bleachers in
    Chicago's Wrigley field and to an extent, Fenway, are more trendy now
    than a decade or two ago.  The teams with the huge season ticket base
    and the consecutive sellout numbers are the teams to envy.  
    
    Fans who jump on the bandwagon due to one player are not fans, but
    bandwagon jumpers.  It's trendy to root for a Gretzky, a Canseco, a
    Mario, a Montana, a bird, a Jordan, a Ewing, or a Magic....
    
    JD

The onslaught of Pittsburgh support continues...

I would compare the Pens to the Steelers of the early seventies as far as fan 
support.  The team is beginning to attract a much wider base of support which 
will guarantee sellouts for all games (like the Steelers).  Hockey is such a 
GREAT sport to see in person that once people go -- they'll want to go back.  

Even without Mario, the Pens did great in attendance during the first 50 games 
this season. And they were only a little over .500 during that span.  A larger 
majority of fans have finally seen the light that's all.  I'd say that for a 
team that has never done anything, previous to this year, Pittsburgh has had 
great support.

Of the NHL teams which sell out all it's games, how many don't have a
tradition of winning?  Or live in a city with 10 million people (that would
be the Rangers)?

Warren

>    Think if we ignore him, he'll maybe like "go away", or will he be like
>    a bad hemmorhiod(sp?) and keep coming back for more?????
    
    Let's put it this way: the NorthStars went away and T is still around. 
    If we ignore him, the problem is still there.  That's a trademark of
    parasites. 
    
    But like most parasitical sycophants, in time he will jump to others to
    fawn over and degrade against.  Give it time; it will never go away but
    it will spread to others who will empathize with your misery.
    
    	--dr. dan'l
    

    JD, if it wasn't readily apparent to you, there have been more than a
    few tongues planted firmly-in-cheek throughout this note...
    
    Rest assured, the Giants/Knicks/Rangers' fans remain the bestest in the
    entire world... ;-)
    
    glenn
    

    I couldn't remember whether the Pittsburgh team with Connie Hawkins
    that won the 1967-68 ABA Title was the Condors or not.  It was the
    Pipers.  OK, fine.  By the time the team moved back to Pittsburgh, the
    Hawk was in the NBA.
    
    John

    Glenn,
    
    It has been apparent.  I've been having fun.  Besides, the best fans in
    the world are Cricket fans.
    
    JD

    I hate to interrupt this ::LDUC (tm) but I gots to mention
    
    
    
    Vitas Gerulitas graduated from 
    
    
    ARCHBISHOP MOLLOY HIGH SCHOOL - same one as Kenny Anderson, Kenny
    Smith, Me, Brian Winters, Kevin Joyce and a few thousand others!!
    
    Go Stanner High - Whatta School!!!!!!
    
    HTH
    
    Kev
    

    It's apparent that the Pengoons' goons (i.e., feigns) are deeply
    disturbed and very insecure.  From what does this insecurity stem?
    Perhaps the industrial decline that nearly saw the city shut down
    10 years ago.  Or perhaps the gene pool down in that valley (populated
    by folk migrating down from the hills, mainly from West Virginia) are
    just plain mean.
    
    But, to review: Pengoons put on dirtiest display a hockey ever.  Glenn
    Waugaman, usually very virile and hair chested, delivers a "apres
    victoire" confessional of fear (I'm afraid...").  Dan'l goes proctologist
    and starts seeing bugs.  JaKe.  JaKe.  *JaKe*, at this point, stands out
    at this point on a ACCrook-like plane of excuse-grinding.
    
    Hey, tale me more about these 5 mile traffic jams.  Could it be that the
    Sore Winner syndrome has reared it's ugly haid in the Steal City again?
    Was it more car burnings, hit and runs, looting, and murder as we have
    seen before down there?
    
    Why this insecurity and sore winning?  Maybe in the case a the Pengoons
    it's cuz people don't ice skate and feel alienated (or like aliens) and
    not a little bit uncomfortable following a sport foreign to them.  
    
    Sneering sore winners, folk prone to patting their own backs and failing
    to mention that in Minnesota they have a NBA franchise to compete with
    while Pittsburgh doesn't rate one.  Success in failure?  Also there's the
    perpetually sold-out Minnesota Golden Gopher hockey team, who stands as
    the University of North Carolina of college hockey: great recruiting,
    possibility of Title each year, and then playoff gag jobs followed by
    renewed faith and still more sellouts.
    
    Maybe that's it.  Maybe that explains the sore winnership going on down
    there by the Monongahela.  These people aren't sure of themselves, and
    dammit, THAT I cain understand just by looking at the plain facks on the
    table!
    
    MrT
    
    btw, for any CLASSY Pengoons feigns out there, I extend my classiest
    congrat's to you.
    

    T, your geography fails you once again.
    
>    Was it more car burnings, hit and runs, looting, and murder as we have
>    seen before down there?
    
    That was Detroit after the Tigers and Pistons championships.
    
    Now let's see which is better on championships:
    
    Miinneessoottaa		Pittsburgh
    ===============		==========
    
    No Stars 	0		Penguins	0
    Vikings	0		Steelers	4
    Twins	1?		Pirates		4?
    Timberwolves (ha)		XXXXXXX
    
    So it seems like the only way Minnesota outranks Pittsburgh is by
    creating a pro team in a sport that Pittsburgh doesn't field.   We are
    going by national titles right?  Otherwise, you can't claim Bob as a
    better coach than Dean, right?  
    
    If our northernmost contiguous state contains a great sports town  (it
    must since T seems to  have all the knowledge of what makes one)  they
    wouldn't have to hang the state moniker on the team name rather than
    the city.
    
    T, stop trying to bate us into your silly arguements that are feeble
    attempts to make up for the Pens dismantling the No Stars.  You, sir,
    are a wiley cat and I enjoy your noting.  Don't lower yourself to an
    Knorr/UNC and Hal/Cleveland level.  Concede now, stop dumping on the
    great city of Pittsburgh, and go back to Dean bashing where at least
    your arguements hold water.
    
    	--dan'l

    My geography is fine.  It was Pittsburgh, Pennsylania, where many
    UGLY things happened after the Pirates' "We Are Fami-lee" Title.
    ("We Are Riot-ing?").
    
    Explain that.  Also, remember that Pittsburgh started it with their
    sore losership class-lack badmouthing of this innocent state!
    
    MrT

>    My geography is fine.  It was Pittsburgh, Pennsylania, where many
>    UGLY things happened after the Pirates' "We Are Fami-lee" Title.
>    ("We Are Riot-ing?").
    
    Maybe I'm wrong.  JaKe, Glenn, et. al. do you remember any of this?  I
    sure don't and I was there.  I would think that a city so used to
    celebrating championships would be able to do so quite professionally
    by '79.
    
>    Explain that.  Also, remember that Pittsburgh started it with their
>    sore losership class-lack badmouthing of this innocent state!
    
    No, you explain it.  When did Pittsburgh badmouth Minnesota?  Please be
    specific.  How could Pittsburgh be sore losers when they didn't lose? 
    And if you're referring to notes in here, I hope you'll recall that
    before the series was over I stated that I wouldn't be sorry, if the
    Pens had lost, that the North Stars, their fans, and owner would be the
    champs.
    
    You on the other hand, were ingracious in defeat so much so you had to
    attack a great fair-playing team, the city it represented, and its
    fans.  I think your notes define sore loser.  In fact, you were so
    confident in your eventual loss, you started such badmouthing and
    complaining around game 2.
    
    Come on, T, let it rest.  Pens are champs, NorthStars are runner up. 
    Both deserve their respective distinctions.  What's so gosh-darned
    wrong with that?
    
    You're alone on this one, T.  I doubt that even JD will argue your
    point.  But if you do, JD, remember that Pittsburgh is above the
    Mason-Dixon line and that the Flyers of the early 70's were perhaps the
    "gooniest" ever and they and their fans are pretty proud of that claim.
    
    	--dan'l

>>    My geography is fine.  It was Pittsburgh, Pennsylania, where many
>>    UGLY things happened after the Pirates' "We Are Fami-lee" Title.
>>    ("We Are Riot-ing?").
 >   
 >   Maybe I'm wrong.  JaKe, Glenn, et. al. do you remember any of this?  I
 >   sure don't and I was there.  I would think that a city so used to
 >   celebrating championships would be able to do so quite professionally
 >   by '79.
    
    I don't remember anything about it, either.  I know I was at the final
    two games in Baltimore and I remember reserve Mike Easler smashing some 
    guy's face for stealing his hat in the celebration.  As this could be
    construed as a "goon-like" act, maybe it also constitutes the "riot"...
    
    glenn
    

    How'd I get draged into this????  I don't give a rats ass about
    champeemship celebrations - never have.  Geez.  
    
    And I *loathe* the Flyers.
    
    JD

    What?  So now you guys suffer palimpstets?  
    
    Be pacific, Dan'l?  OK: Halfway thru the series (when it looked like
    they were gonna lose) Niel Wilkerson and two other 'Goons were being
    interviewed and took the opportunity to impugn the Stars' fans.  I 
    might also mention that feigns like YOU, JaKe (oof), and the once
    objective quant glenn Waugaman have also dabbled in this unfortunate
    practice.  Reprints from the Pittsburgh papers showed more of the same,
    as if the Cup Final was about Minnesotans (who don't riot) on trial and
    not the Stars.
    
    After they took the Cup, we saw more a the same from the players, the
    papers, and, to be sure, you heels.
    
    MrT

    T, that's the first I heard of any of this.  Seems like a bunch of
    hearsay to me.  Please provide reprints.  And please be specific about
    the out-of-hand celebrating in '79 also.  That's your assingment for
    the week, young man.  Go to the library, get the microfish about the
    death and destruction in '79 and post it.  Otherwise, quit now while
    you're wrong instead of later when you'll be really wrong.
    
    JD, sorry to drag you into this.  I chose the person that was most
    likely to jump to T's defense since you are such a Mario hater.  But,
    that was my exact point, T is on his own and it's pretty laughable.
    
    	--dan'l

    I don't think there was a media outlet in the entire country who didn't
    bring up the bandwagonesque qualities of the Minnesota fans.
    
    I also didn't see anything vaguley resembling "sore winnership" until
    after a series of wailing and whining by a certain sore looser.

    This whole thing has wheeled outta control.  JaKe launching hurtful
    phraseology at poor MrT.  Dan'l "forgetting," conveniently, the
    sordid past for which the world knows Pittsburh feings.  Even the
    once great Waugaman pours out a fear confessional.
    
    The Pens and their townspeople - at the moment of what shold have been
    a refreshing, positive, celebratory victory - instead turned their
    sneering visages toward a_innocent state that knows 1000x times more
    about hockey than they and went off on a rampage of unwarranted
    criticism.  
    
    All of this was made worse by the cheaty tactics that they were in
    effect endorsing.
    
    All this happened, and demands a very detailed looking in to.  
    
    MrT

    Hey Dan'l
    
    As far as th hit and runs, burning, rioting, goes here's what I
    remember:
    
    There was one guy in the "Polish Hill" who got drunk while celebrating,
    backed over his mother-in-laaw, drove off, ran into a parked car, which
    burst into flames, then punched out the owner of the parked car.  (I
    understand that this was an every week thing with this guy though)
    (8^)*
    
    "T"'s claims, from the Pens to the supposed rioting etc. are all
    completely unsubstantiated and unproven BULL$HIT!!
    
    He won't go to the library to get the info cause he knows it's not
    there.
    
    He is ::SPORTS_91's Rosey Ruis(sp?)  Never there till the finish, and
    completely fabricated.
    
    I refuse to get into it with him (or is it IT) over the Pens anymore
    cause he can't take it that the Pens CLEANED THE NoSTARS CLOCKS!!!
    Along with the fack that the Steelers ran it to the Vikes years ago.
    
    
    Y'know Dan'l, I was wondering where I had seen similarities like "T"'s
    inane chit-chat before, and your bringing up the Hal/Clevescum
    connection hit the nail on the head.  Two from the same mold.
    
    
    JaKe
    
     

>    All this happened, and demands a very detailed looking in to.  
    
    But you just refused to do so several notes ago.  
    
    You and you alone are bringing forth these claims.  You prove it, I'll
    believe it.  Until then, sir, SPORTS is laughing at you.  
    
    See ya tomorrow.
    
    	--dan'l

    
    >The Pens and their townspeople - at the moment of what shold have been
    >a refreshing, positive, celebratory victory - instead turned their
    >sneering visages toward a_innocent state that knows 1000x times more
    >about hockey than they and went off on a rampage of unwarranted
    >criticism.  
    
    Maybe your calim of Minny-Sodains knowing 1000x times more about hockey
    is why Craig Patrick went out and brought in Badger Bob, who hails from
    Minny-Soda.  And why shouldn't Minny-Sodians know more about hockey,
    Sheez, you're ice encrusted, what, 10 months a year????
    
    Give it a rest, "T"ball.
    
    JaKe
    

    If Minnesota is so steeped in hockey tradition and talent, why is it
    that this was their first appearance in the Stanley Cup finals?

As a new noter, I was looking through some old replies to get a better
feel for some of the noters and came upon this note:
    
================================================================================
Note 7.687              The National Hockey League (NHL)             687 of 1031
ANGLIN::SHAUGHNESSY "NorthStars: Miracle On 24th St" 10 lines   6-MAY-1991 10:44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ain't never beena_NHLockey game in my life.  But, thanksa
    fellow Digitite, I'll lose my virginty tonight in what promises to
    be one a the wildest scenes here in ages.  Everybody's talking about
    what a bunch a stiff the fans in Edmonton are, and are determined
    to raise holy hail to pull the NorthStars onward toward their Miracle
    On 24th Street.
    
    I cain't tale ya what the heck icing is, but I know how to yell.
    
    MrT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

So much for all this "Minnesota is more of a hockey place than Pittsburgh"
malarky.  I've been to hundreds of hockey games.  I even know the rules.
And I'm from Pittsburgh.  How the hail can this be?

    re .167
    
    Thanks for putting that in here.  "T" doesn't even know the rules and
    he's being an "objective sports Analcyst" thruout this whole thing????
    
    Hey "T", get the PUCK outta here.  You has been exposed, and it ain't a
    pretty site.  ALL FAKE!!!!HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
    
    
    .167 sorta puts all of the dung flying from "T" in perspective, doesn't
    it???HAHAHAHAHA I LUV IT!!!!!

    So "T" is one of the many that couldn't get to the games when there were
    ten thousand empty seats to choose from, didn't even know the rules, but
    as soon as the NoStars win a couple of playoff games against opponents who
    took them too lightly and figured them as pushovers, "T" joined Muffy and 
    Biff who went in their Beamer to the games(They took their own Quiche and
    Sushi, BTW)




    JaKe
    

    >you're ice encursted, what, 10 months a year ????
    
    Winter here is roughly the same length as in Boston, sometimes
    longer, sometimes shorter.  I *do* rember reading a few months
    back about how Minnesota averages 100 mo sunny days a year than
    Pittsburgh, which was pacifically held up as a_example of a_overcast
    place. 
    
    Maybe that explains the dark outlook a you people.  It's also much
    drier here, which might explain the difference in humor.
    
    re 1
    
    Wake up and smell the Rosie's willya bub.  Want me to spread 'em for
    ya?  That way maybyou'll be better able to discern the already 
    obvious from the folds a what's being probed.
    
    MrT

This note reminds me of the story we tell about one of the guys on the
team and his girlfriend.  His roommates, also on the team, hear them
arguing:

		Him:  F*** You!
		Her:  No, F*** You!
		Him:  No, F*** You!
		Her:  F*** you!  You can't say that to me.
		Him:  I certainly can, F*** You!
		Her:  No, F*** You!

This goes on for hours, sometimes until 4am....

(If it were me, I'd get a new girlfriend 8^))

Anyway, that's what this note has turned into.  In case anyone didn't
notice, Pittsburgh beat Minnesota, took the Cup back to Pittsburgh, and
the season starts again next October.

All the rest of this crap is just that....bovine scatology.....


JMHO,
'Saw

> Anyway, that's what this note has turned into.  In case anyone didn't
> notice, Pittsburgh beat Minnesota, took the Cup back to Pittsburgh, and
> the season starts again next October.
    
    It's jest that that reality hasn't set in yet for a certain noter,
    'Saw, and like the guy that pays to go out on a cheap first-time "date" 
    (he did say he was a virgin) and becomes obsessed and keeps calling and 
    calling and calling for something that's no longer there even after the 
    object of his affection has dumped him on the street so much like the 
    entire North Stars' franchise has done to their "fans" he's no longer 
    able to cope, finally dropping keystrokes now on his video screen that
    is but mist through the tears of his sad but oh-so-genuine malady...
    
    Get some help, man.  I sympathize with ya, and am very worried...
    
    glenn
     

    Hit NEXT UNSEEN if'n ya don't like it.  
    
    :^) / 2
    
    Mark.

No Lufay, I cain't do that...

I'm a moderator, and the rules of the job say ya gots to at least look at
each note, to make sure no one has scanned in Christina Applegate's
exquisite titles.....

8^)

'Saw

    Geniuses.
    
    A "new" noter rocks the place with the revelation of something that
    had been flatly stated from the beginning.  Then it's uncovered that
    the season is over and a next season is planned.  
    
    Avoiding the subjects at hand?  [yes]
    
    MrT

    
    
>>each note, to make sure no one has scanned in Christina Applegate's
>>exquisite titles.....
    
    I think I'd pay for someone to scan her titles and acquisitions in
    here!!   (8^)*  (8^0*
    
    JaKe
    

    re: whatever note way back around 150
    
    1) 'burgh rioting...don't think so in 1979; I think most of that was
    gotten out of everyone's system after the 1971 series, and that stuff
    was mild compared with Detroit and most others.  The usual rolled cars,
    drunken fights, etc. happened after each championship in Pgh., but
    nothing to compare with, say, the 1960s riots (unlike other places).
    
    2) Pens as the "dirtiest team ever..."  Yeah, right...anyone remember
    the Blues (Steve Durbano, Battleship Kelley) and, of course, the Flyers
    (Dave Schultz) from the early 1970s?  Of course, all 3 of them later
    played for the Pens, but they still couldn't win then.  It takes a lot
    more than an enforcer or 2 to win the Cup.  Even Dave Schultz had a hat
    trick during the finals one year the Flyers won; they won by scoring,
    defense, etc., the same way the Pens won this year.
    
    
    I second whoever said...season's over, the Pens won, back to the blocks
    for next year.

    
    Boy I haven't thought about Batteship Kelley (Kelly?) in years.  Number
    22 if I recall correctly.  Now there was a masterpiece.  Every time he
    hit the ice, Vince Lashied would play Anchor's Away.  I don't think he
    actually ever "fought" anybody.  Everybody just knew he was the best
    fighter going and tried not to get him angry.  He would just skate
    around looking for something to hit and then head back to the bench.
    I don't think he ever even broke a sweat.  If he actually touched the
    puck, he would hit the red line and shoot.
    
    Needless to say, the Penguins have come a long way since then.
    
    Warren

    Saw where the PenGoons used their pick to take home boy Fitzgerald,
    hailing from Duluth, Minnesota.  Ugh.
    
    MrT

11 PENS ABSENT AS CAMP BEGINS
    
reprinted from Pgh. Post Gazette, Sept 6, 1991, without permission
    
By
Tom Mcmillan

	Talk about distractions.
	The Stanley Cup champion Penguins rumbled into training camp today at
the Civic Arena without their coach, and, at least for the moment, without 11
of the players who helped them win the NHL title last season.
	Five players are at the Canada Cup tournament and will be back as early
as next week.  But six more are free agents who have not signed contracts and
will not report.  it should be a strange sort of a day.
	"It doesn't seem like this is the way it should be the year after you
win the Cup, does it?" said Kevin Stevens, one of the unsigned free agents.
	No, but the Penguins must persevere.
	General Manager Craig Patrick will return this morning from a Canada
Cup game in Detroit to oversee camp with Scotty Bowman, the team's director of
player development and recruitment.  Assistant coaches Barry Smith, Rick
Paterson, and Rick kehoe will run the show on the ice.
	They will proceed with heavy hearts, because Bob Johnson, the team's
coach, remains in Mercy hospital, where he underwent brain surgery last
Thursday.  Johnson is sitting up, speaking, and writing notes of encouragement,
but his condition is still listed as critical.
	"And, obviously, for all of us--players, coaches, everyone--our main
concern is Bob,"  Stevens said.
	johnson had been expected to miss the first week because of his
coaching assignment with Team USA in the Canada Cup, and five of the team's
best players remain involved in the tournament.	
	Paul Coffey and Larry Murphy are playing for Canada,  Joe Mullen is
playing for the US, Jaromir Jagr is suiting up for Czechoslavakia and Ulf
Samuelsson is dishing out checks for Sweden.
	Of a more pressing concern is six unsigned players---including Stevens
and Mark Recchi, the team leaders with 40 goals apiece last season.
	The other unsigned free agents are Ron Francis, Scott young, Gordie
Roberts, and Jim Paek.
	"It doesn't look like anything's happening," Stevens said.
	Stevens, Recchi, and Paek are here(in Pittsburgh), but they have been
unable to reach contract agreements.
	Roberts' agent said the veteran defenseman was on his way here last
night in hopes of landing a new deal.
	Francis and Young remain at their off-season homes in Connecticut and
in fact, skated and worked out together yesterday.
	"I really don't expect anything for a couple of days now," Francis
said.
	The most volatile situation involves Recchi, who had a contract offer
from the Philadelphia Flyers.  It is not known if Recchi will pursue that offer
today.
	Meanwhile, Patrick and Bowman will try to help mold another title
contender out of the available bodies.
	In all, 63 players have been invited to camp.  There aren't expected to
be dramatic changes in the championship-caliber roster, but among the most
intriguing candidates are:

	* Jamie Leach--The 22-year old right winger fired 33 goals in 43 games
	  	at Muskegon last year, but he played sparingly here after being
		recalled.  Could this be his year?  At 6 feet 1, 205 pounds
		he's got the ability to bang.

	* Ken Priestlay--In a suprise move, Patrick and bowman protected the
		5-11, 190 pound center over popular Randy Gilhen for the June 
		expansion draft.  That means he figures in their plans.

	* Gilbert Delorme--After missing all last season with a stress fracture
		in his leg, Delorme, 28, is attempting a comeback.  If he
		succeeds, he'll add experience and depth to the defense.

NOTES---Today's practice was closed, but the Penguins will hold their third
annual training camp tournament tomorrow, Sunday, and monday at the Arena, with
sessions open to the public all three days from 9am to 5 pm.  Admission is $2
for adults and Children under 12 will be admitted free.


JaKe
 

>    <<< Note 154.179 by CELTIK::JACOB "Sex is DIRTY..when done properly" >>>
>                              -< Pens camp opens >-
>	Talk about distractions.
    
    The most devastating news, however, is that the guy who played Elvis at
    the Igloo died in a plane crash several weeks ago.  T'is truely a cruel
    world.
    
    	--dan'l

    
    
    Dan'l,
      I don't think it was Elvis who died.  It was the father of the
    father/son team that dressed in tuxedos and penguin noses and tramped
    around A and B-sections banging Pens signs with their canes.
    
    Charlie

    Heard on ESPN this morning that the Penguins have matched the Boston
    Ruins offer sheet and Kevin Stevens will be with the Pens this year.
    
    
    JaKe
    

       The reports I heard this morning were from a Pitt. TV station. The
    Pens and Stevens agent wouldn't confirm them.
                                 Denny

    RE .183
    
    Normally, as far as I see it, that would mean that the Pens have agreed
    to match the offer but that the Contract just hasn't been signed yet.
    
    AMF
    
    JaKe
    

    He was on TV last night at 11:30ish on channel 5 (live) I believe and
    said that the Pens did indeed match the Bruins offer.  He said he would
    either be playing in Pitt or pitt would trade him, but pitt would not
    deal with boston in a trade.
    								MaB

    The Penguins overcame a 6-2 deficit in the 3rd period , and won in OT
    .vs. the Islanders, 7-6 on Phil Borque's goal at 2:30 of the overtime
    period.Mario Lemieux scored 3 goals for his 27th career hat trick.
    
    The Pens are now 3-1-1
    
    JaKe
    

    re-.1
    
    And Ron Francis is still holding out from the Pens.
    
    The Pens mgmt, being true to form for ANY Pittsburgh team's mgmt, isn't
    offereing Francis too much.
    
    JaKe
    

    re: Francis
    
    I know the Pens have offered $700k, and I've heard that they have
    offered $800k.  I'd say that's about what Francis is worth.  Francis 
    is looking for $900k.  The Pens need him, but he's not worth quite 
    that much.  Like Franco, he wants to be paid for what he did, not what
    he can do.  Talk to Hartford if you want remuneration for the past,
    Ron!
    
    The Pens have been playing hardball, but in the end they've shelled out 
    the dollars and signed the guys they had to sign.
    
    As of today, Stevens is most definitely overpaid.  Maybe his game legs
    just aren't there yet.
    
    Inside Hockey says that the Pens have the two best players in the game
    right now: Mario and Jaromir Jagr.  In the games I've seen, Jagr has
    been extremely impressive.  Made some almost Mario-calibre moves
    against the Isles last week, turning a few guys inside out with 
    spectacular stick-handling.  In 2-3 years, he's going to be making 
    megamegabucks.
    
    Charlie

    Pens beat the Islanders lasted night, 8-5. No details, though.
    MyUS(eless)a TODAY is the Atlantic Ocean edition, methinks!!
    
    JaKe
    

>    Pens beat the Islanders lasted night, 8-5. No details, though.
>    MyUS(eless)a TODAY is the Atlantic Ocean edition, methinks!!
 
    Paul Coffey broke the NHL scoring record for defensemen and Bob
    Errey had three goals.  Coffey had 2 assists, giving him 1,053
    points for his career.  That broke the record of 1,052 held by
    Denis Potvin.  The record was broken when Coffey slipped the puck 
    to Errey behind the Islanders' net in the third period, when the
    Penguins broke the game open.  Jaromir Jagr's goal halfway through
    the third period snapped a 5-5 tie and brought the Penguins back
    to life after a listless second period.
    

    re.190
    
    Thanks for the summary.
    
    JaKe
    

    The Pens blew a 5-2 lead lasted night and had to settle for a tie with
    the Broons.  Sheez, when are these guys going to wake up and start
    playing some real hockey.  With Francis signed and playing, I sort of
    expected the team to be back to full strength, but their playing like
    their head is up their backside.
    
    
    JaKe
    

       There was a story on the sports lasted nightthat Lemieux told Kevin
    Stevens that the 2 of them were going to be traded to Quebec for
    Lindross and $15million!
                                       Denny

    
    Actually, the Pens didn't play that badly, JaKe.  The Bruins had
    2 5-on-3's that they scored on.  Otherwise, wouldn't have been close.
    They also only have 3 healthy defensemen.  Phil Bourque is back 
    playing defense and he doesn't play D quite as well as his namesake does.
    
    Penguins' new owners seem like total slimeballs.  They may sell players
    to pay for their purchase.  Some memos from Baldwin talking about selling
    "assets" have been leaked.  What's the point of buying a team if you
    immediately run it into the ground?
    
    If they sell Mario, I'm going to have a hard time supporting the team.
    
    Charlie

    
    The sale of the team hasn't been approved by the Board of Governers
    yet.  Ziegler (the spineless wonder), Baldwin and a prospective
    minority owner, Paul Martha (who leaked the Baldwin memos in protest)
    are talking in NY today.
    
    With any luck, the sale of the team will be negated (in part due to
    the links between the Flyers' owner and Spectracor, the company
    which bought the Civic Arena).
    
    Charlie
    

    If that trade (Stevens and Lemieux for Rights to Lindros) was actually
    offered, Quebec would be foolish to turn it down...

    The sale of the Penguins has been put on hold by the NHL.  Paul Martha
    and tha investors, it is rumored,  had been squeezed out of the deal. 
    It is the outright "sale" of players that the new owners reportedly
    were planning that has the team on hold.  There is a clause in the sale
    to keep the team in Pittsburgh for the nexted 25 years unless the
    attendance drops below an average of 12,500 per game, upon which the
    new owners could take the team and skip town with them.  Selling off
    Mario, Stevens, and Coffey would help drop the attendance below 1250
    per game, let alone 12,500 per game.
    
    The people buying the team, or trying to buy the team, it appears to
    me, are first class morons.
    
    JaKe
    

>    If that trade (Stevens and Lemieux for Rights to Lindros) was actually
>    offered, Quebec would be foolish to turn it down...
    
       Don't forget the small matter of $15 million being included too.
    With Mario's back, I don't know.
                                      Denny    

    Da Pens massacreed da San Jose minnows tonite, 10-2.
    
    JaKe
    

    RE -1:

        I hear that when Sharks grow up they like feeding on Penguins. In a
    couple of years they should be munching on a steady diet.

                                                     Night Flier   ~~v~~

    Mario called on carpet by league official's over "Garage League"
    comment.  Film at 11.
    
    JaKe
    

        If I was Mario, I'd tell the league to 'stuff it' Guess the truth
    hurts for old Ziggy.
                                             Denny

    The Pens have stopped worrying about winning the division title, and
    are now worrying about making the playoffs.  Over their lasted 19
    games, they are 4-12-3.  They are playing mostly horrible hockey, and
    have lost too f___ing many leads in the third period.
    
    Ah, well, after one year of glory, I guess it's "Same Old
    Penguins"!!!!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    re: .203
    
    Some of us would gladly take one year of glory and end up in last the
    following year.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    
    The Pens traded goalie Frank Pietrangelo to the Hartford Whalers today
    for Future Considerations.
    
    'Saw,
    
    Who is this guy, Future Considerations, and what position does he play???
    Is he any good????
    
    JaKe
                      

Jake,

I got home lasted night about 10:15 from a BRUTAL rugby practice.  I had to
call my mom because she'd left a message to call her...

She told me about the trade.   As Iron-Mike-On-Lithium would say "I is 
ecstatic!".

I saw Petrangelo play in the playoffs last year and was impressed.  
What the Whalers actually wanted was for Burke to be traded to Calgary and
then to make a deal for Vernon.  I knew that was impossible, because there
are not enough rolls of Bounty in the stores in Hebron for me to deal with
that thigh-shuddering possibility....  (And I would have felt bad for Vernon
too)


But this was the nexted best thing.


Future Consideration is a 1993 draft choice.


Now I'm having a big problem, though, because it seems as if we finally
have a good goalie.  The Dork sucks, and Mary Kay Whitmore plays more
like Mary Kay Cosmetics than a goalie.


I guess if I think about this logically, considering the sieve-like defense
EJ has provided the Whalers, this new goalie will be shell-shocked before
the season is out...


Now if we could just get rid of John "Sweet Boy" Cullen.....




'Saw

    Dem Pens won lasted night, as the Devils lost, so the Pens clinch 3rd
    place and will play the Washington Caps in the firsted round of the
    playoffs.
    
    Shoot, that means I won't have a chance to win the P-name wager with
    TCM, cause the Devils will knock off the (De)rangers in the first
    round.
    
    JaKe
    

    Wash Caps slam it to the Pens again tonite.
    
    Series comes back to Pgh Thurs for the start of the Pens four straight
    wins.
    
    JaKe
    

    re: .208 Dream on. But I hope you are right. I would much rather the
    Rangers face the Pens than the Caps. Rangers match up very badly (2-5
    this year) with the Caps.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    TCM,
    
    The Rangers ain't gonna get past the Debbils(tm).
    
    JaKe
    

>              <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS_91.NOTE;1 >>>
>               -< CAM::SPORTS -- Digital's Daily Sports Tabloid >-
>================================================================================
>Note 25.1391                   Questions & Answers                  1391 of 1392
>SHALOT::HUNT "Happy Happy, Joy Joy"                  20 lines  23-APR-1992 16:31
>                                    -< :-) >-
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Fred Hickman over on CNN makes me laugh too.  Lasted night, CNN Sports
> Tonight gave the POD to Mark Rypien and George Bush for their White House
> Rose Garden ceremony.  Rypien gave Bush a Skins jersey and then teased him
> that it wasn't the Oilers colors.   Hickman said something like ... "I've
> said it before and I'll say it again, the best part of being President is
> all the free stuff the teams give you."   Great line.
    
    Don't know if this was ever reported in here or not, but it just goes
    to show what a boob we have for a president.  Lasted year when the
    Stanley Cup champs were invited to the White House, Bush read his
    little speach in which he praised the team, especially the Pens' stars,
    and especially Lemieux.
    
    Upon completion of the speech, Bush is presented a team jersey by none
    other than Lemieux to whom Bush asks, "Thank you. And who might you be?"
    
    	--dan'l
    

    I saw that, that was hilarious... The Redskin line was good too...
    at least he recognized the Redskins (I guess, right?)

    Mario Lemieux and some other guys beat the Wash. Caps tonite, 6-4.
    
    Mario was in on the scoring of all six goals, getting a hattrick and 3
    assists(though his third goal was into an empty net).
    
    Pens in 6
    
    JaKe
    

    Jake you'll have o be a revisionist real quick, no chance of Pens
    winning this series in 6.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

Pens were down 3-1 in to Da Debils(tm) lasted season, and won the
Cup.....


Wonder if they can do it again.....

    Were the OPens down 3-1?? Could be, don't remember it though.
    
    Lots more teams been coming back from 3-1 deficits in games in recent
    years so it sure is possible. Last years Pens were really peaking, this
    years edition looks pretty flat, so far.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

They mentioned on the Bruins game on Saturday night that the last
bunch o' Cup Winners have been down 3-1 in their opening series.

Pittsburgh, Edmonton....


Then they went back three years and said that the Flames had a game
7 go into OT in an early series, the year they won the Cup....


'Saw

    I seem to recall in 1989 the Flames played Edmonton in a 7 game sereis
    that was decided towards the very end when Steve Smith knocked the puck
    into his own goal.
    
    I guess if Buffalo, Detroit, Pittsburgh, or Vancouver win the first
    round series everyone else better watch out :-)
    
    The Crazy Met

    I watched about half of the game Saturday night and the Pens played
    some of the most UNINSPIRING playoff hockey I've ever seen.  They just
    didn't seem to want the game, and it translated into a sever pounding,
    with Dino C. knocking them on their asses almost single handed.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens beat the Caps tonite to bring the series back to Pittsburgh with
    the Pens down 3 games to 2.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens force it to 7 games with a 6-4 win.
    
    They jumped out to a 2-0 lead 5:05 into the game and then went to sleep
    for the rest of the first period, ending it trailing either 3-2 or 4-2.
    
    SUPER MARIO had 5 pts.
    
    On to Landover Md. for the 7th game Firday night.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens play Caps tonite for chance to advance.
    
    In the last 3 games the Pens have played to clinch playoff series, they
    have outscored the competition, 21-4.  But that was lasted year.
    
    Cain they make it 3 in a row and knock off the Caps????  We'll know
    tonite.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens win tonight!!!!!
    
    REK

    Pens did indeed win tonite, completing a comeback from being down 3
    games to 1.
    
    The Pens special teams got it done tonite, scoring one power play goal
    and one short-handed goal, in addition to the empty netter with 33
    seconds left.
    
    I guess I gotta belly up and take a helping of crow after prediciting
    earlier in this series that they wouldn't recover.
    
    On to the Rangers and a p-name friendly wager hangs on that series,
    starting Sunday.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens won yesterday, 4-2, over the New Yuck Rangers.
    
    Mario has a 24 game scoring streak in the playoffs. He had two assists
    lasted night.
    
    It scares me to see the Pens win the first game of a playoff series,
    seeing that lasted year and against the Caps, they seemed to ALWAYS be
    coming from a game or two down.
    
    JaKe
    

    Rangers beat Pens tonite, 4-2, scoring 3 goals in the final period to
    come from behind.  Lemieux was slashed across the hands and had to
    leave in the first period, Joey Mullen was pounded and left the game
    with a possible concussion.  
    
    JaKe
    

>    Rangers beat Pens tonite, 4-2, scoring 3 goals in the final period to
>    come from behind.  Lemieux was slashed across the hands and had to
>    leave in the first period, Joey Mullen was pounded and left the game
>    with a possible concussion.  
    
Jake,

I tried.  I partly rooted for Da Pens.  Unfortunately, Da Broons needed
so much of me last night that there weren't much left for Da Pens...


But I know that in the next game, the ref is gonna charge the
Rangers with a plotcher....


'Saw    

The  turning point of this game came early in the 1st period.

First Lemieux is slashed and has to leave. Serously folks, if you or I
did this to someone on the streets it would be assault, battery or
whatever the crime is when you whack someone with a large stick with
purposes to maim.

Then the Pens have a 2 man advantage for about a minute and a half and
don't score.

Mr. Mo moved to the Rangers.

TTom

    Sorry TTom, I don't think much of that excuse.  The Rangers were
    playing without Messier from the beginning.  Heck, the B's Ray Bourque
    left their game under similar circumstances and the B's were able to
    pull out a win on the road.

Not trying to make any excuses. Seriously. My only affilation with the
Pens is that a lot of the people I know in Charlotte seem to be from that
area.

My point was how it turned the game - not that it was a_excuse for the
loss. That and the guy who did it should be arrested. He got a 2 minute
slashing penalty which is approximately equivalent to less that a wrist
slap. In fact, the Pens didn't score so it cost the Rangers nothing to
take Mario outta the game.

TTom

    How long is Super Mario out?
    

    Walt,
    
    I haven't heard how long he may be out, but lasted night they didn't
    know whether it was just bruised or broken, or what.
    
    JaKe
    

    IMHO
    
    Adam Graves should be arrested and have the stick he slammed Mario with
    inserted in the part of him that faces south when he's facing north!!
    
    He says he had no intent to injure Lemieux
    
    RIGHT,
    
    Believe that and you'll also believe that Bobby Bonilla is giving ALL
    of his $29 mil(over the nexted 5 years) away to help Mike Tyson buttock
    fondling victims(at $1.25 each).
    
    JaKe
    

    Just heard that Mario's wrist is
    
    
    BROKEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Fer the rest of the playoffs, the Pens should insert their sticks in
    every opening on Graves bod and snap them off!!
    
    Looks like Mario cain only watch the playoffs from here out!!
    
    Sob
    
    (8^(*
    
    JaKe
    

    Might as well start sporting the Crazy Met's P-name now, JaKe.  Pens
    are a solid team with Stevens, Jagr, and Barasso, but no way can they
    beat a team the calibre of the Rangers without Mario.
    
    However, I would make Francus admit that the Rangers' victories are
    tainted from here on in because of their cheating ways.
    
    Just when Pittsburgh was starting to roll too.  Damn!
    
    Yet another reason to hate New York teams, New York, and New Yorkers.
    
    	--dan'l

    re: .237
    
    Glad you're so confident. Remember I am a Rangers fan and we tak
    NOTHING for granted.
    
    re: .236
    
    Jake, It really is a shame that Mario is out, no kidding here. He is a
    great player and fun to see. It will probably help tyhe Rangers, which
    is good, but it still is too bad. As far as Graves. I did not see the
    play. Graves this year in NY has played good tough clean hockey. I
    doubt that he purposely tried to injure Mario. Unfortunately those
    things happen in hockey.
    
    The Crazy Met
    ]

    re: .237 
    
    Admit that victories are tainted?? No way! Ranger did have the best
    record during the regular season, so it is not like a Rangers victory
    in this series is an upset of any kind./
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    A correction to my lasted note.
    
    Mario's wrist is OK.
    
    
    It's his hand that's broken.   Sh__, Sh__ and triple Sh__.
    
    He's definitely OUT indefinitely.
    
    The NHL is reviewing the films to see if the play warrants any
    disciplinary action towards Graves.  Personally, I'd like to see the
    death penalty applied to Graves for this attrocity.
    
    JMHO
    
    JaKe
    

       Ray Bourque has a broke haind too. He says he's got a 'playing cast'
    and will play if he cain hold the stick. Why isn't Mario doing the same
    thing?
                                     Denny

	I heard Bourque only broke his finger. Where Mario broke his hand.

	Stick a fork in Pittsburgh there done. Grave's MVP

    	I heard Bourque only broke his knuckle.  Mario's hand is broken.
    Saw the slash on TeeVee and the only thing you can say is it's
    definitely a slash, can't really tell if there was intent to injure.
    Sad that JD ain't here to defend what he claims Da Broons� do all
    the time.  8^)
    
    				/Don

    If this year's rendition of the Broons can go this far without Neely,
    then a much more balanced team like the Pens should be able to overcome
    the loss of Mario.
    
    Sorry Pen fans, no excuses will be accepted.  THe team should suck it
    up and move on.  
    
    Mark.

       Gee, didn't Neely get conveniently taken out by a Pengoon lasted
    year?
                                      Denny

    Sorry, Mark, but as much as you'd like to believe it, Neely is no
    Lemieux.  Mario is a superstar and Cam is still reading the how to
    book.  A balanced team like the Pens will be good, but without one of
    the most prolific scorers in NHL history, they are no better than the
    Rangers.

    Ulf Sammuelson took out Neely lasted year, Denny.  Cheap shot all the
    way. 

    	--dan'l 

    Dan'l, my point is that Neely means as much (perhaps more) to the
    Broons than LeMeow (tm pending) does to the Pens.  At least you have a
    couple of other potential 50 goal scorers to step in.
    
    Mark.

>    Dan'l, my point is that Neely means as much (perhaps more) to the
>    Broons than LeMeow (tm pending) does to the Pens.  At least you have a
>    couple of other potential 50 goal scorers to step in.
    
Perhaps I should put this in the Broons note, but the thing that is
amazing to me is how well the rookies are playing for the Broons.
Hell, when the Flounders get rookies it takes them years to start to
play well....


LeMieux will be missed, but I agree with Mark.  They won the Cup last
year without much of Mario's service....


'Saw

    I saw the slash, hard to tell any intent. Kevin Stevens said that it is
    a standard move trying to slash the stick. Be interesting to see what
    the league does. Tonights game could be a war.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    OK, guys, I will take back my excuses.  You have made me see the light. 
    Please understand that I get very little hockey news and/or coverage
    down here (cause TTom never invites me over to watch SportsSouth with
    him...probably afraid I'd bring I.C. Light...and Bob Hunt and I never
    hook up on a hockey night).
    
    Go Pens.  Beat them Rangers.  They are capable of doing it.  
    
    Saw's bullets are to woodchucks as Ulf is to Graves.
    
    	--dan'l

Graves admits to trying to "whack" at his glove - a "standard" practice
when killing a penalty.

The worst part about this is that he's right, except that his version of
this standard practice was a two-fisted swing and he made good contact,
good enough for break Limieux's hand.

TTom

    
>>LeMieux will be missed, but I agree with Mark.  They won the Cup last
>>year without much of Mario's service....
    
    One correction, 'Saw, lasted year, Mario missed about 50 games during
    the regular season, but during the playoffs, he only missed a couple.
    He tied, I think, the record for points in the playoffs, while missing
    two or 3 games with back spasms.  More or less, he carried the Pens on
    his sore back, 'specially during the series with the NoStars.
    
    Having him out with the broken hand is a HUGE blow to the Pens, and
    probably a morale booster for the Rangers.
    
    Still think somebody should single Graves out tonite and make it a
    necessity for him to see a proctologist to get his stick back.
    
    JaKe
    

    Finally saw the Graves incident.  Hey, that's hockey, folks.  He
    doesn't deserve to be suspended.  But you could tell Mario was in
    tremendous pain from the second it happened.  He's been known to put on
    a show and take a dive now and then, but anyone (such as Mark let's
    say) who thinks Mario should be in there playing with a busted hand
    is really showing a lot of ignorance.
    
    Pens have no excuses for losing lasted night.  They were 1-10 on the
    power play.  Probably would have won with Mario.  Shame.
    
    	--dan'l

    I personnally feel that when a play such as that, Stick around waist
    high, swung at an opposing player that causes injury to the recieving
    player, the player swinging the stick should be suspended.
    
    There's no need to bring the stick that high and chop at the hands. 2
    minutes in the bin is a very easy price to pay when taking out one of
    the worlds best, and it will continue unless something is changed in
    the rules.
    
    
    I.E. an injury caused to another player by using ones stick, the player
    causing the injury with the stick will be suspended for x amount of
    time, and fined. I guess the other end of the spectrum would be to send
    out the team goon and pull a Wayne Mackie on the opposing teams
    superstar.
    
    
    
    Hockey looks more and more foolish every year, crap like the Lafontaine
    incindent, and now this.
    
    
    -TH 

>    I.E. an injury caused to another player by using ones stick, the player
>    causing the injury with the stick will be suspended for x amount of
>    time, and fined. I guess the other end of the spectrum would be to send
>    out the team goon and pull a Wayne Mackie on the opposing teams
>    superstar.
    

Derek was talking about this last night.

First off, he says that he's never seen the sticks so high as they
have been the past couple of years.  He feels the way to end that is
to call it consistently all of the time.

(My feeling is empower the linesmen to call stick penalties)


When asked about retaliation, he said that he thinks nowadays it's more
of a hitting/check oriented thing.  Player A busts up your star player.
You now have a choice -- you can go after Player A's team's star in the
same fashion, or you can just make sure that you check the crap out
of player A next shift.  Derek says the latter is what happens today.

He did say that in his day you would have sent out the goon to beat up
the guy.


'Saw

>He did say that in his day you would have sent out the goon to beat up
>the guy.

    Elvis ain't left the building yet, and the Pens have the quintessential
    goon named Ulf.

    	--dan'l

    Sticks are carried high because of face masks.  Players from little kid
    hockey on up are not learning to respect the stick.  I realize the
    purpose of face masks, but if they were gotten rid of, it would help
    eliminate a lot of the high sticking.  Getting rid of helmets would be
    a move in the right direction as well.
    
    John

re Ulf:

	Ulf is not a goon in the sense I'm talking.  I'm talking the
	Nick Fotiu kind of guy with minimal hockey skills, big shoulders,
	and fast fists (although I did LOVE watching Nicky play).

	Ulf might give you the cheap shot, but he ain't gonna come off the
	bench, skate right for the guy, and start beating him up, like
	that guy (who's name escapes me) from the Flyers back in the old
	days.

	Ulf is more like a Ted Lindsey 8^)

	Ulf doing a cheap shot to injure would be like what Derek was saying
	does NOT happen.


>    Sticks are carried high because of face masks.  Players from little kid
>    hockey on up are not learning to respect the stick.  I realize the
>    purpose of face masks, but if they were gotten rid of, it would help
>    eliminate a lot of the high sticking.  Getting rid of helmets would be
>    a move in the right direction as well.
    
I'll go on the shields, but not on the helmets.  Definitely need those
helmets.....


'Saw

    I have to agree somewhat with John, But would stop at leaving the
    helmets on. Todays players are to big and strong, when they hit, they
    hit hard. I would'nt want to have my derby unprotected when Rick
    Toccett comes in to ring my bell.  
    
    In pee wees, through college, the sticks are everywhere, except where
    they should be. In college with the full face masks and the no fighting
    rules, these guys carve each other up on regular intervals. It carries
    right over into the pros. They know that nothing will happen to them,
    I.E no goon will smack em around and if the ref does'nt see it, oh
    well.
    
      Saw,
    
     The guy your thinking of for the Flyers, is one of my old time
    personall fav's Dave 'The Hammer' Shutlz. What an animal.
    
    I remember when they played the Russians, the Ruskies where skating
    rings around em and the Broad street Bullies decided to give the CCCP
    team  a good ol' fashoned  Philly welcome. The Ruskies did'nt want to
    come out for the 3rd period. They also would call Booby Clarke 
    BOOObie. It would drive him nuts, an he would grin an them with his
    toothless smile and shaggy hair, They thought the whole team was
    Whacko.
    
    
    Those where definetly Hockey's finest hours......
    
    
    -TH
    
    

    If it wasn't for high slap shots, we'd could even go back to the days
    of the maskless goalies.  While I draw the line at that, I believe no
    face masks from high school on and helmets optional in the pros.  After
    all, how can you have an all-ugly team if everyone wears a helmet?
    
    John

    	Here, here John!  But the days of respect for what the stick
    can do are gone forever.  They'll just have to make the equipment
    more protective.  Bob Lobel (local sportscaster) had Don Cherry
    on last night and he said if Lemieux didn't go down every time someone
    breathed on him maybe Graves would've gotten more than a 2 minute
    minor.  8^)
    
    				/Don

No, I'm definitely for the helmets.

I used to think it was cool as the number of helmetless stalwarts from
pre-1979 dwindled, but in reality, it doesn't take much of a wang in the
noggin to REALLY mess up your life for a long time after hockey...

I'm not a fan of face shields unless someone is playing with an injury.

But I couldn't see them getting rid of the helmets.


'Saw

    Isn't the reason players are wearing face shields because they been 
    sliced and diced by a stick? I've seen a lot of players over the last
    few years who do not wear face shields until they're hit with a stick
    or puck then they come back with the shield. I agree if they did take 
    away the face shields they'ed probably be less incidents. But there
    will always be the guys that will still get you with the stick. It
    seems like it's gotten pretty bad lately with the cheapshots, which is
    too bad because I felt the NHL could of landed a real tv contract if
    they would just make an attempt to clean up a little. But they don't so
    I don't want here them crying about no tv contract.
    
                                                         Dan

Face shields are an elective thing.  Some have them, some don't.

I can see the half shield protecting your eyes from pucks, but a high stick
UNDER that shield will do more damamge that if you didn't have it, I'd 
bet....


'Saw

    Face shields are mandatory at all levels of United States amateur hockey.
    I don't know what the requirements are North of the Border.
    
    When kids play without face shields, they learn to keep their sticks
    down, because they know raising the stick can cause facial injuries,
    whether accidental or intentional.  A few 5-stitch cuts will help teach
    that to them, especially when they're getting the stitches.
    
    With the face shields, kids don't get hurt unless the stick goes under
    the shield.  Therefore, they don't learn to keep the sticks down. 
    Then, there's an injury caused by an accidental high stick.  Then the
    kid who gets hurt figures that if he's going to get hurt by the high
    stick then he's going to keep his stick up to protect himself.  Then,
    we have the real bad-ass who says let's see how far we can push this
    and goes out to hurt people.
    
    That's the problem with face shields.  In trying to prevent minor
    injuries (and most facial injuries in hockey are just that, minor)
    they've opened up a whole new negative aspect of the game.
    
    It's like the Megnets now used to anchor goals instead of the big
    posts.  Players used to never crash the net because the net didn't move
    and they knew they could get hurt - as witnessed when guys accidentally
    crashed it.  So, the league started using Megnets.  Then, there's no
    more fear in crashing the net so they crash the net and as a result,
    the goalies are getting cheap-shotted more often.
    
    John 

>    Face shields are mandatory at all levels of United States amateur hockey.
>    I don't know what the requirements are North of the Border.
    
Yes.  I didn't mean to give the impression that the shields are elective
there.  I mean in the NHL.

Watching hockey played without helmets, btw, gives me that same queasy
feeling as I used to get riding my motorcycles w/o a helmet (the one
or two times I did it)....


'Saw

    RE.265 
    
    Bingo !
    
    -TH

I have been an advent of the 'faceshield=high-stick' theory for 
quite some time. This is evident at the college level in particular.
They are fearless in college, the sticks are allway's up when
checking and the little whacks and grabs are generally let go. 
This carries over from level to level and finds it's way to the
pro ranks, where the full face mask is not required. However old
habits are hard to break, and these players still carry the stick high.
Although the face shield/mask, prevents injuries, it adds a new 
dimension to the game, giving players a sense of, 'Hey how can I get 
hurt with this thing on', and they play accordingly. What needs to be
done is to start calling penalties at EVERY level of play consistent
to a set of rules set by some governing body, and these rules MUST be
enforced. It's either that or force NHL players to wear a full mask and
let em play Roller Ball style.



Steve

         <<< Note 154.253 by SHALOT::MEDVID "i can't lick that far" >>>
    
>    a show and take a dive now and then, but anyone (such as Mark let's
>    say) who thinks Mario should be in there playing with a busted hand
>    is really showing a lot of ignorance.
    >
    
    Whoa, Dan'l.  I never intimated that Mario should be playing with a
    broken hand, but that the rest of the Pens should suck it up and prove
    that they're not a one man team.  Big difference.
    
    Mark.

>    Whoa, Dan'l.  I never intimated that Mario should be playing with a
>    broken hand, but that the rest of the Pens should suck it up and prove
>    that they're not a one man team.  Big difference.
    
Pens did suck it up and pulled out a nice OT win on Saturday night.

What a bonus for me, who, after watching the Bruins SWEEP the Habs, and
was tremedously woodyward, got to see some more hockey from Pittsburgh.

For that game at least, it appeared that Ronnie Francis was filling
Mario's skates OK.


What really made it nice though, in seeing Francis get the hat trick
and game winner, was a little bit of info I picked up during the week.
It seems that EJ, the GM of Hartford, will not refer to Francis by 
name.   He'll always mention him as "The other guy", as in  "When I
traded Ulf and the other guy".

Well, EJ, take a good look at where the "other guy" is and what he's doing,
while your major acquisition John "Sweet Boy" Cullen is out falling down
on the golf course.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....



'Saw

    Did Graves get a 4 game suspension for the hatchet job on Mario ?
    
    -TH 

    
>    Whoa, Dan'l.  I never intimated that Mario should be playing with a
>    broken hand, 
    
    No?
    
>================================================================================
>Note 21.71         Official SPORTS Trademark (tm) Expressions           71 of 72
>RANGER::LEFEBVRE "PCs 'R Us"                          5 lines   7-MAY-1992 12:21
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    LeMeow  - to feign injury when your team needs you the most.
>    
>    Example: With their backs to the wall, the Plattsburg(h) Pipsqueaks'
>    leading scorer LeMeowed, thereby preventing the 'Squeaks from repeating
>    their faux champeenship.
    

    Dan'l, you of all people should recognize tongue-in-cheek.
    
    Mark.

I cannot say enough about Ronnie Francis in this series.  While I have
not seen all the games, the ones I have show Ronnie stepping up and filling
in for Mario.

This is a man that that boob EJ got rid of in Hartford.  Instead of trying
to pull in good talent around him, he got ride of him for one of the most 
useless and gutless players ever to lace up a pair of skates.

Even John Davidson, acknowledged by many to be the best and most knowledgable
color man in hockey, has praised Francis.

You folks in the 'burgh are lucky to have him....


'Saw

    
    And to think he was drafted as a defensive center type. I don't think
    the Rangers can pull it out. Pitt has some explosive players and they
    seemed to be in control of the flow of the game while the Rangers were
    playing catch up. 
    
    The Rangers outshot the pens but could'nt buy a goal.
    
    -TH

       Wonder if Nielson will send out the troops to incite another bench
    clearing brawl at the end of this series too?
                                       Denny

    Pitt wi...Pittsburgh wins.  Got to see the game in Charlotte! 
    Actually, I've had the chance for quite some time now it seems, but
    didn't know it.  A few months ago, Sports South went from subscriber to
    part of the basic package and I didn't know about it.  Since I had the
    chanel deleted from my TV lineup, I never even knew I was missing the
    hockey games.
    
    Jagr certainly put lemieuves(tm pending) on the Rangers with the
    penalty shot and the game-winning goal.  Anyone still think the
    Penguins are a one-man team?
    
    Rangers outplayed the Penguins in the 2nd and 3rd periods, but couldn't
    put it through the pipes.  Barrasso played well, but the Pens
    defensemen were the key.
    
    The goal they took away from Borque was a crime.  I've seen lots worse
    allowed.
    
    	--dan'l

>    
>    Jagr certainly put lemieuves(tm pending) on the Rangers with the
>    penalty shot and the game-winning goal.  Anyone still think the
>    Penguins are a one-man team?

Can't forget Ronnie Francis...8^)
 

    A friend just FAXed me an article from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. 
    First two paragraphs:
    
    	Pittsburgh -- Now that the Pittsburgh Penguins have disposed
    	of the New York Rangers, an improving Mario Lemieux is planning
    	a comeback to try to help his team nail down a second Stanley 
    	Cup.
    
    	Doctors say it takes four to six weeks to completely recover
    	from a broken hand, but Lemieux may return three weeks ahead
    	of schedule and be available sometime in the Wales Conference
    	finals against the Boston Bruins, a best-of-seven series that 
    	gets underway Sunday in Pittsburgh.
    
    Yes!
    
    	--dan'l

    He was trying to get ready to play game 7 if necessary, so that doesn't
    surprise me that much...
    

    What have the Penguins done?  They've gone up 1-0 in the series!  I
    don't know if they know how not to come back!
    
    Did anyone doubt what was going to happen when Jagr made that Lemieuve
    right before he scored in OT?  Moog was playing great, but Jagr's
    move on the defender left Moog a sitting duck.  
    
    If Moog and Barrasso keep playing like that, this series will go seven. 
    
    	--dan'l
    

    If the officials did their job, this game never would have seen OT. 
    Bourque was clearly in the crease on the 3rd Penquin goal.
    
    Barrasso was the reason the Broons didn't win this game 6-2.  Save for
    a 12 minute spurt in the 2nd period, Boston outplayed Pittsburgh in
    every facet of the game except scoring.
    
    But alas, scoring is what counts.  It was a very entertaining game,
    however, and I hope they are all as good.
    
    Here's hoping for a split.
    
    Mark.

    Read somewhere the Pittsburgh mayor is offering Ray Flynn IC beer and
    Clark bars in da Broons win and wants lobster and beans if da Pens
    win.  Does that seem fair to you?
    

    Lobsters are at or near record highs in $/pound.  Flynn is being taken
    to the cleaners.  
    
    Mark.

>    If the officials did their job, this game never would have seen OT. 
    
    You mean the same officials who missed a Bruin break a stick across
    Trottier's back?  It all evens out.  Stop whining.
    
    I still give Boston an edge because the Penguins have a very tough time
    in the Garden.  A good beating tomorrow night and the Pens will fold.
    
    	--dan'l
    

    Not whining...just stating the obvious.
    
    Van Hellemond was right there at the Bruins net when he made the
    non-call.  He was facing the play.  He blew it, but the Broons should
    not have been in a position to have the ref affect the game.  No
    excuse.
    
    Don't know if he saw the the slash.
    
    Joe Juneau is for real.
    
    Mark.

    Looked to me that he was in the crease because he was pushed in by
    Juneau, not the case?  He didn't interfere with Moog.  

    Walt, although Juneau was skating with Bourque through the crease, the
    replay clearly shows he wasn't pushed.  Bourque had plenty of
    opportunity to leave the crease while McEachern came from behind the net
    to well in front of the crease for his shot.  But he didn't.
    
    As I said, the B's had plenty of opportunities to make that (non)call a
    moot point but they didn't.  'Nuff said.
    
    Mark.

>    Walt, although Juneau was skating with Bourque through the crease, the
>    replay clearly shows he wasn't pushed.  Bourque had plenty of
>    opportunity to leave the crease while McEachern came from behind the net
>    to well in front of the crease for his shot.  But he didn't.
>    
>    As I said, the B's had plenty of opportunities to make that (non)call a
>    moot point but they didn't.  'Nuff said.
    

In fact, Bourque pushed his way back INTO the crease.

As usual the refs blew it.


Mark is right however.  The Bruins carried the play most of the game.
The goal by Callen-someone-or-other should never have happened.  Weimer
should have been looking at what the heck he was doing.

Pens score on a broken play to win in OT as the puck dribbles through.
For most of the rest of the game Jagr was a non-entity.


Okay, give the Broons their one rusty game from the layoff.  Time to
get busy and beat up on the Pens...


'Saw

    Word here in Pittsburgh is that Mario should be ready to play by game
    5, if it goes that far! (8^)*
    
    Lemieux has been working out and is still having a little bit of
    trouble with stick handling, but his new cast fits inside his hockey
    glove and, reportedly, he'll get a new, smaller, easier to maneuver the
    hands type cast before game five.
    
    JaKe
    

Word here in Boston is that Bourque will be ready to play nexted game...

For those Pitt fans still drooling over Jagr's goal, in Moog's
defense, it was tipped in by Matt Hervey, a Bruins defenseman.
A nice move yes, but a little luck on the shot.



Steve

And even then, it didn't go in by much. 8^)

Not to take anything away from Jagr, because as Derek kept saying, he's
a game breaker, but I thought the Broons did a nice job of neutralizing
him for most of the game.  It took a busted play to spring him....


The Broons have to start scoring.  Bowness had better get them scoring
somehow.  But in my opinion, a lot of the non-scoring on Sunday was
because of the layoff.  Guys putting shots OVER the net is usually
because they're rusty.

Should be a better game tonight...  If the Broons can keep winning the
faceoffs, and peppering Barasso, then they should start tallying...



'Saw

    Bourque will be ready tonight.Funny noone mentioned the fact that
    Boston won just about evry faceoff. Poulin, Oates, are great faceoff
    men, and that I feel was a factor in the B's controlling the play for
    most of the game.Jagr needs to be banged around abit, rattle his cage,
    he'll fall apart. The only thing is, is you must catch him first.
    
    -TH

    Not to harp on the McEachern goal but Bourque (Phil) was in the crease
    of his own volition although he didn't interfere with Moog at all on
    the shot. As Slash mentioned awhile back (and Mark) the refs need to
    show more consistency and whistle the play daid ( and sh*tcan the
    obligatory interference call when there is none as in this case).
    No excuse however and not whining. B's lost as the Pens took advantage
    of two costly Broon defensemen boners ( Weimer and Murphy ) for two of
    their goals. Dang, only if Oates hadn't missed the open net by shooting
    high late in the third! 
    
    Heard on the radio this AM, that Barrasso might have re-injured his
    hip on Sunday night. Can any of younze corroborate?
    
    MikeL
     

    C'mon, I had always had respect for you Bruins fans, but your whining
    (yes, Mike, you and the others are whining) is beginning to remind me
    of a certain NoStars fan around this time lasted year.
    
    Don't make me lose respect for you and your team.  
    
    	--dan'l

    Haven't heard anything on the Barasso injury.
    
    Rumor from the Pens is that Mario just may be in uniform and ready to
    play tonite or Thursday.  It is said he has had excellent practices the
    past 2 days and may be ready to play with cast on his hand.
    
    JaKe
    

    Da Broons say they were watching tapes and Barrasso had problems
    getting up after a couple of saves.  

    Awright dan'l, We'll stop dwelling on the non-call( was too in da
    crease! 8^). Last word; IMO didn't affect the goal, I just wish in
    the macro sense of it, that the refs showed consistency in all aspects
    of the game,but then again, I'm an idealist. Perish the thought of
    being likened to a neophyte FauxStar feign!  On to game two, and
    if JaKe is right about Mario makin' an appearance, SHEEEEEEIIIT.
    
    MikeL
    
    BTW, 'Goon fans, what happened to the Burgess Meredith Penguin
    Wannabee in the stands?
    

    Dan'l, go back and re-read the notes and please tell me what words you
    don't understand.
    
    Each one of us said that the Broons should not have put themselves in
    position to let the refs affect the outcome.  Each of us said no
    excuses.
    
    A reason is not the same as an excuse.
    
    Mark.

    And lobster is $3.99/lb., no where near a record.  It was, however,
    over $14./lb just a week or so ago.
    
    lEe

    Maybee the 2 week-old faux lobster they serve in Haverhill :^).  The
    stuff coming off the boats in the Seacoast area are still quite high.
    
    Mark.

    	I think the two mayors should bet each city's debt, with the
    loser assuming it.  Then you would see the community get behind
    their teams!
    
    				/Don

    
    Bonds and van Slyke up against Greenwell and Burks.
    
    I like this bet, and if we lose, who cares!
    
    8^)
    MikeL
    

I'm not whining about the call.

I've seen the Bruins both benefit and be hurt by this non-call all playoffs
long.

I agree with whoever said it earlier:  The rule should be if a man
is in the crease, NO GOAL.  If he's not interfering it's just a washout,
if he is interfering, then a washout and 2 in the box.

And it should be consistently called.

Again with emphasis, the Bruins have no one to BLAM but themselves on
that goal....


'Saw

Hey, dan'l.  Stop whining about their non-whining, or I just may or may not
lose respect for ya...

:-)

Hawk

    Markie, the price that my son-in-law gets off of his boat in York, Me.
    has dropped a GREAT deal over the past 2 weeks, and a report on Monday
    over a Boston station said the price had dropped from a recent $14.99
    to the 4-5 dollar level.  Supply is up, demand is down (at least until
    everyone realizes the change in price).
    
    Maybe you're getting ripped off because N.H.'s coastline is so short!
    
    :*)
    
    lEe

    - Mario was back.  At first he seemed like a liability out there, but
    that soon changed.  Bruins had their hands full when he and Jagr were
    on the power play together.
    
    - Jagr is the fourth best player in the league behind Mario, Gretzgy,
    and Hull.  To have two of the best on the same team is a deeeeeelite
    for Pens fans.
    
    - Someone said yesterday that the Bruins needed to put some hard hits on
    Jagr.  They did.  Didn't do much.
    	
    - Jimmy Paek is an unsung hero.  What a great defenseman!  And I also
    have a special place in my heart for Koreans these days.
    
    - I know a lot about hockey but not so much the mentality.  Is Marios
    empty netter a slap in the face to the Bruins or is that goal expected
    with the net wide open?
    
    	--dan'l
    	

    Dan'l, some might say that Mario's goal was bush, but not me.  I would
    have done the same.  Sets up dirt in the Boston papers, get's the fans
    squawking, and serves as an exclamation point.  Could backfire, though.
    
    Besides, he has to catch up to Oates and Jagr in the Conn Smythe
    campaign.
    
    Mark.

I don't think that empty netter meant that much to either team. 
Actually it's kind of expected that the team that pulls the 
goalie will get scored upon. No big deal. B's were outplayed, 
they know it, they don't make excuses in the press, the player's
that is! 8^)


Steve

    Scary game for the B's. If the 'goons can bottle up the B's that
    well in a larger ice surface then they'll be completely stifling
    in cozy Boston Garden. Great game by Pittsburgh, totally dominated
    the B's, humbled them even.  Let's see what a change in venue will do.
    And dan'l, that goal was not a slap in the face. No big deal, as Steve
    and Mark pointed out. 
    
    Nice sign about Neely, that loser must support Duquesne too. 
    Mike Milbury gets my vote as Gentlemen of the Evening with his
    profanity-laced invective against Dennis Morel, in front of a priest
    no less! 8^). Actually Morel sipped bigtime for both clubs. Gotta
    shake your head when the ref calls chickenpoop stuff agin both teams.
    Really does wonders for lettin' both teams garner a consistent flow
    to their game.  Maybe I ought to thank Morel, score might habe been
    8-2.
    
    Sigh,
    MikeL
    
    BTW, Ulf still sips
    

They weren't hitting Jagr hard enough.

You want to hit the guy so hard that the fillings in his teeth come lose.
You want to make him THINK every time he has the puck.   Put a guy on
him who's just supposed to hassle him...

It's like in rugby and your a prop, and you know you're getting to their
hooker.  You don't stop, you work even harder, and make him think you're
relentless.  That way, he's more worried about you than he is about the
hook, and you start taking his hooks.

So, they have to hit harder.


Actually, I think the B's will have an advantage in the Garden, because
Jagr and LeMieux won't be able to roam as much.


But, they'd better get off their duffs and play!

RE Milbury and Morel.  Milbury was probably correct in everything he called
   Morel.


'Saw


PS  Anyone else notice that Morel looks like Pat Paulsen?

    Anyone know the story behind Jagr's driving?  The announcers were
    saying he hasn't quite got the hang of it in the states.  Has he hads
    some crackups in Pittsburgh?
    
    Also liked the anagram: Jaromir => Mario Jr
    
    	--dan'l
    

    Lemiuex (sp?) was amazing. Unfortunately I can't see how Boston can win
    this series.
    
    Mets in '92
    Go Bruins (at least in this round)
    The Crazy Met
    

Despite the inconsistency of Morel's officiating, I think Milbury's tirade was 
pathetic and an embarrassment.  Sour grapes at it's worst (reminded me of Team 
USA and their display after the Olympics).

I hate to say it, but Ulfie played a terrific game.  He was hustling and 
hitting, too bad more of the Bs weren't doing the same.

The Bs simply cannot allow Mario, Jagr, or whoever to camp out in front of the 
Bs net.  The Pens allowed it on Murray's goal, and then didn't let it happen 
again.  The Pens always seemed to have an open man in front of the Bs net.

Big hole to climb out of now...

Scott

    	Leave it to 'Saw to bring a rugby analogy into it.  8^)  'Saw
    I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.  The Broons� can't
    keep up with PittsburgH's best skaters.  You can't hit what you
    can't catch.  If the Broons� win the next two game I wouldn't be
    shocked, but they can't win the series.  And Ulfie will never get
    by respect.  If you want to play that kind of game fine, but when
    someone calls you on it stand and fight like a main.
    
    				/Don

>    	Leave it to 'Saw to bring a rugby analogy into it.  8^)  'Saw
>    I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.  The Broons� can't
>    keep up with PittsburgH's best skaters.  You can't hit what you
>    can't catch.  If the Broons� win the next two game I wouldn't be
>    shocked, but they can't win the series.  And Ulfie will never get
>    by respect.  If you want to play that kind of game fine, but when
>    someone calls you on it stand and fight like a main.
    
Well, the rugby analogy is right.  The other thing that happens in
rugby a lot is that if someone knows you're injured, they go after it.

I never had a problem with my busted hand, cause I was in C side games,
but if I'd been A side, I would have rubbed mud on the white tape to
try to conceal it...


Broons skated with Jagr in the first game....


It ain't over till the fat lady sings (even though she might be warming
up now)


'Saw

    I like the position the Pens are in right now, leading 2 games to none,
    BUT, it brings back memories of lasted year when the Pens TRAILED the
    Broons 2-zip, then came back to win 4 straight and move on to the
    No-Stars and Lord Stanley's Cup(why did the guy donate just his cup and
    not his whole jockstrap????).
    
    Mario did look rusty early(I worked a dayshift yesterday and therefore
    got to watch the game lasted night), but looked pretty good later in
    the game.
    
    Didja see the sign that said "We miss you, Cam.  Love, Ulfie"
    Love it.
    
    The Pens always seem to have troubles in the child sized rink in
    Bahston but I'd love to see them pull the broom out Saturday night.
    
    IF, and that's a big "IF", the Pens get by the Broons, I look for a 7
    gmae series with Chicargo.  The Pens seem to have a way af rising to
    the level of their opponents in these playoff thangs(in years past,
    excepting lasted year, I would have said the Pens have a way of laying
    down for  ANYBODY in the playoffs), and could give Chicargo a run fer
    their money.  This team looks like it is playing up to the potential of
    all of that talent, finally, and can run with anyone. 
    
    2 months ago, I would've almost laid money against the Pens being where
    they are right now, sure glad I didn't.
    
    --dan'l, love that JAROMIR:==MARIO JR deciphering, heard it first
    lasted night on the raido on the way home from work.
    
    JaKe
    
    
    

Will someone get these Pen-Goons fans some kleenex please?????


'Saw

    What's this I hear about the Pen's changing their logo?
    

    Walt
    
    I heard something about a logo change lasted night on the radio fer the
    first time.  Heard the new logo looks horrible, though.
    
    Saw
    
    Whaddya mean, we ain't gots no reason to be crying!!  (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    Kelly Bundy is still Ulf Samuelsson in drag.
                      
    Hope this helps...
    
    
    py

    Frank, this IS the Penguins note.  After 23 years of futility, I think
    we are entitled to a little gushing over last year and this.  I mean
    it's not like we have another local hockey team we can jump to when we
    tire of an old one...
    
    They showed the Penguins future logo on SportsChannel lasted night. 
    Hate it!  Why change?  Pens have one of the best logos in pro sports. 
    The new one is this streamlined Penguin (upper half only) emerging from
    a triangle.  Home uniforms will have "Penguins" on the front; road
    uniforms will say "Pittsburgh".
    
    	--dan'l

    
    >>Frank, this IS the Penguins note.  After 23 years of futility, I think
    >>we are entitled to a little gushing over last year and this.  I mean
    >>it's not like we have another local hockey team we can jump to when we
    >>tire of an old one...
    
    --dan'l, well put.  I stand behind what ya said here 100%.
    
    Hail, when the BoSox finally win a World Series(if it's in my
    lifetime), we'll NEVER here the end of the gushing and jeans soiling
    they'll do.
    
    Does Clevescum have a hockey team of any kind or does the ice keep
    igniting up there????
    
    JaKe
    

    
    > --dan'l, well put.  I stand behind what ya said here 100%
    
    gee what a surprise :-)
    
    Go Bruins (at least in this round)
    The Cray Met
    

    23 years of frustration!!??
    
    Why you dadgum Pittsburghese didn't know what the hail hockey was
    till lasted year. When the NHL came to Pittsburgh, younze thought
    hockey was a new lungee spitting sport! 
     Reminds me of a certain Walleyet trout of a 10,000 laker idjit!!
    
    Mucho 8^)'s
    
    MikeL
    

    MikeL
    
    I've followed AND rooted for the Penguins since they joined the league.
    
    I also followed and rooted for the Pittsburgh Hornets when I was truly
    a young'un.
    
    Sure, REAL hockey didn't start to show up in Pittsburgh until Mario
    arrived, but I watched and rooted and was thoroughly distapointed by
    the teams of the lasted 25 or so years.
    
    JaKe
    

    Wail JaKe,
    If'n ya rooted fer the Hornets ( what league were they in, the IHL?)
    ah guess you're entitled.
    
    I remember goin to see the Broons play the Pens in the early 70's
    when the Pens had Bryan Watson and Ron Hextall's dad ( Bryan?).
    Hated their old uniforms. Hate your new ones to cuz ya copied dem
    from the Broons! ( and yes, I know the real reason) 8^)
    
    MikeL
    

    I think it was the IHL, but I was only a elementary schooler back then
    and not concerned with the league they was in, and that WAS a long time
    ago.
    
    JaKe
    

Re dan'l and Jake, snobby Pen-Goons fans 8^)

	Guys, I was ONLY kidding!  I don't begrudge anyone gloating
	over their team a little (or even a lot) because for most
	teams, glory comes only fleetingly.  BTW, if the Broons were
	out of it, I'd be rooting FOR Pittsburgh because of Ronnie
	Francis...

	Now, as to jumping teams, let me repeat what I've said since
	the beginning.   I was a Bruins fan for years before the Whalers
	came to town.

	I cut my "hockey teef" on guys like Orr, Bucyk, Esposito, Hodge,
	Cashman, Awrey, Dallas Smith, Westphal,Cheevers,McKenzie (Pie, not
	Doug or Bob) and those guys.  I lived for the days that Espo would
	beat his brother Tony when the Bruins beat Chicago.  In 7th,
	8th and 9th grade I lived and died with Boston -- and because I
	was SO into hockey, I never really got interested in hoops, and
	to this day could care about hoops.

	All I'm guilty of was having a little home town loyalty when the
	Flounders came to town.   Switching back to root for the Bruins
	was like a prodigal son coming home, or an unfaithful husband
	returning to his wife (and being accpeted back I might add).


	So, it's not like I just jumped.  There's a lot of history there.
	A lot.


re the Pen-goons logo:

	I haven't seen the new one, but I like the old one.



'Saw

    Dan'l
    
    You really think Jagr is better than Yzerman?   You kidding, right?
    
    Mario simply wasn't as hurt as he made out to be.  
    
    JD

>    You really think Jagr is better than Yzerman?   
    
    Yes, and I'll say it again in a different light so that it may even
    please your anti-Mario brain: Jagr is one of the top four players in
    the NHL.
    
>    Mario simply wasn't as hurt as he made out to be.  
    
    That's it, JD, when all your other anti-Mario arguments fall through,
    just say he was faking injury so he wouldn't have to play wit doz bad
    bad Rangers.  May I remind SPORTS noters of your feelings from last
    spring?  You might want to begin a search for the crow cafe note. 
    
>              <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS_91.NOTE;1 >>>
>               -< CAM::SPORTS -- Digital's Daily Sports Tabloid >-
>================================================================================
>Note 154.73          !!!!!!The Pittsburgh Penguin Note!!!!!            73 of 332
>RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JO "Be Excellent to Each Other"       28 lines  24-MAY-1991 12:31
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >.
    >.
>    .
>    If, and its a big if, Mario can carry this team so that it becomes a
>    regular in the finals, then, and only then, will Mario approach the
>    great one.  THe Pens have a great supporting cast.  Lets see if Marion
>    can lead them to the promised land more than once (if they hold on...)
>    
>    JD
    
    Pens just can't gain respect.  With Mario they are a "one-man team." 
    Without Mario, they "have no excuses" and proved so against the
    Rangers.  
    
    Sorry, folks.  Pens are a great team.  {Had to say this now since I'll
    be on vacation nexted week.  Hope JaKe didn't soil too much of the
    Mrytle Beach sand.}
    
    	--dan'l

Mario and Jagr can be stopped.  The Garden will help, with it's smaller
rink.

On Pittsburgh ice, you've got to find someone to put on him who can skate
and check, and shadow him constantly, nipping at him relentlessly like
a terrier.  If you do that, and can keep him out of 85% of the play, you
might have a chance to win.

Jagr needs to be hit, hit hard, and hit relentlessly.  


Both are extremely good and talented hockey players.  Yet even Goliath
was felled by David.


Broons have an uphill battle.....



'Saw

    
    re: MikeL
    
>    Hated their old uniforms. Hate your new ones to cuz ya copied dem
>    from the Broons! ( and yes, I know the real reason) 8^)
    
    	Actually, it makes being a fan of Pittsburgh easy.  All I have to
    do is wear a black hat with a gold 'P' on the front and depending on
    which team is in season or which one is doing better, I am recognized
    as a fan of 'a' Pittsburgh team.
    
    	It also saves a lot on buying stuff too.  Same color scheme for
    all the teams was a great idea.
    
    	
    	bill..g_who_wears_his_P-hat_proudly!!  
    
    p.s. and this 'P' hat doesn't have one of those one size fits all
    plastic straps...I've got the real McCoy.  No plastic tab hats allowed
    in my family!!
    
    

 <<< Note 154.332 by RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JO "DaBronx,DaHill,PugetSound,Wilton..." >>>

>    Mario simply wasn't as hurt as he made out to be.  
    
    ie, he was "lemieuxing" (tm)?

    Dan'
    
    Well, if you think Jagr is better than Yzerman, then I guess you must
    
    be a noveau faux Pens are on top Jagr scored a great goal type fan.
    
    And I ate my crow last year, and also put in notes - without excuses,
    after the Pens beat the Rangers.   
    
    I'm not even sure Jagr is in the top 5 players.  I'd take Messier
    before him.  ANd Ray Borque.  ANd I haven't even started with Goal
    tenders yet.   Put give me Patrick Roy before Jagr.    He's damn good -
    but he isn't in the top 4.  Heck, I think a healthy Cam Neeley is
    better.
    
    Just your blind Pens loyality getting to ya.
    
    Stick to boating.
    
    JD

    Jagr isn't even the 2nd best player on the Penns, let alone in the top
    5 of the NHL.  Stevens, by far, is a better complete player than Jagr. 
    The fact that he had 50+ goals with 200 minutes of penalties is
    indication that Stevens likes the physical stuff, can check, and can
    play defense.
    
    Mark.

    
    I think the fact that Jagr is still only 20 years old should be
    factored in as to whether you'd rather have him than some other player.
    He might not be in the top five now, but how 'bout in 2-3 years?
    
    One thing that Pittsburgh has showed is that offense really is half the
    game, so that part of the game shouldn't be discounted, as it often is.
    Over the long haul there's nothing spectacular about Tom Barrasso or
    the Pens' defense, but goal hawks like Jagr make up for it...
    
    glenn
    

    I agree.  (But I'm biased).  I'd take Yzerman over Jagr.  If Yzerman
    had a supporting cast like Stevens, Francis, Lemieux, Tocchet and company,
    there's no telling what he could do.  I'd like to see what a guy like
    Lafontaine could do too.  And that's not even mentioning Messier.
    Jagr can become a great one, but I don't think he's in the top 5 yet.
                                                                  

    However,  I will give that he's better than Syl Apps, Lowell MacDonald
    or Jean Pronovost...
    

>    And I ate my crow last year, 
    
    Like hell you did, JD.  When?  After the Pens did what you said they
    couldn't do, what you claimed Mario couldn't lead them to, what should
    have been a fess-up to being wrong, you jumped on a horse with Mr.T and
    road herd on the low-blow cattle drive because you couldn't think of
    anything nice to say.  
    
    You disputed Lemieux's MVP, claimed Pittsburgh fans would go away after
    Lemieux retired, claimed the fans didn't know or appreciate hockey. 
    None of that seems like crow to me.  You were in league with the lowest
    sore loser to grace this electronic medium instead, so I wouldn't go
    around claiming falsehoods as truths like he often does.
    
    And I'll accept your arguments as to better players in the NHL.  I
    guess I did get carried away.  But if it were up to JD alone, I doubt
    he'd put Lemieux in the top 5.
    
    	--dan'l

    IMO, if I were to start a team tomorrow...
    
    1. Lemieux
    2. Gretsky
    3. Yzerman
    4. LaFontaine
    5. Neely (healthy of course)
    6. Bourque
    7. Messier
    8. Leetch
    8. Stevens
    9. Moog
    10. Jagr
    
    Notable exception is Patrick Roy who seems to disappear every year in
    the playoffs.  Others include Esa Tikkanen and Brian Bellows who seem
    to turn it up a notch during the playoffs.  I admit my Wales Conference
    bias.  
    
    Mark.
    winger who Harry drafted  

You guys just watch Joe Juneau.  Maybe not this year, maybe not the
next, but just keep watching.....


'Saw

    Hull doesn't make your top 10?
    
    off the top of my head, if I were to start one tomorrow...
    (not worrying about marketing...)
    
    1. Lemieux
    2. Hull
    3. Yzerman
    4. Roenick (future)
    5. Bure (ditto)
    6. Stevens
    7. Jagr (youth again)
    8. Leetch
    9. Juneau (went to RPI)
    10. LaFontaine
    11. Messier
    12. Bourque
               
    For now I'd do this:
    
    1. Lemieux
    2. Hull
    3. Yzerman
    4. Gretzky
    5. Messier                  
    6. Roenick
    7. Stevens
    8. Leetch
    9. Jagr
    10. Bourque
    
    and take my chances with a goalie later (understanding a hot goalie
    can carry you pretty far...)

 Don't forget Eric Lindros.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Sports South is showing, instead of the hockey game tonight...
    
    
    
    Coca-Cola 600 Pole Day
    
    oh boy!
    
    	--dan'l

    Didn't forget Lindros, but since he's not under contract, I didn't list
    him...
    

Dan'l

The scoreboard out on Independence will be showing the game. They'll have
the pole day on one screen, a couple of baseball games, and the "blacked
out" NHL game.  Best call ahead to be sure but this is what they've been
doing with the other games: getting it from the satellite, not from
SportsSouth.

TTom

    Dan'.
    
    Mario is the best playerin the NHL.  Bare none. Shoots that record
    down.
    
    And you should know that likeNinj, I don'treally believein MVP awards -
    cuz they tend to go to the guy on the champeenship team, or media
    darling.   IMO, Messier was MVP of the NHL this year, but prbably won't
    get it.
    
    I congrated Pens fans -  like Mr. Partee and Mr. Schramm who were here
    for yearsspouting off Mario is God crap.   
    
    JD

    JD,
    
    Messier probably will get MVP this year. MVP voting is done before the
    playoffs begin and the Rangers did have the leagues best record (much
    good it did them :-( )
    
    Go Bruins (at least in this round)
    The Crazy Met
    

>    Mario is the best playerin the NHL.  Bare none. 
    					  ^^^^
    I'm sure there's a lot of womens who would like to see Mario bare ALL. 
    And Jagr too from the swooning I hear.
    
    Hope our place at the beach picks up SportsChannel because this series
    is going to go to the 7th game.  Keep your chins up, Bruins fans.  Pens
    have not had the practice of being out front and staying there.  Two
    losses in Boston might just crack them.  And then I'll be rooting for
    the Bruins vs either the Hawks or the Oilers.
    
    	--dan'l

    
    >>	teams, glory comes only fleetingly.  BTW, if the Broons were
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Sorta like a Fleet enema, here now, gone in a minute, eh 'Saw!!
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    Stop trying to patronize us dan'l as you're probably sportin an
    ear to ear grin, and that's not from boatin' either! 8^)
    
    What cain I say. Devastating. Men toying with boys. Let's not crown
    the Blackhawks quite yet. The Hawks might be fast but the 'Goons
    are big and fast! Damn Lemieux, Jagr, Stevens, Tocchet, Francis, and
    throw in solid 3rd line center Trottier. Doesn't Trottier amaze
    everone? Seventeenth flippin' year in the league, five Stanley Cup
    rings, goin' for one more. Still plays a solid game, not as flashy
    or productive as previous years, but the Pens don't need him for that.
    I can't believe how effective he is as a third line center as well as
    Francis as the second line center. Deep and talented team. The Fat
    Lady's warming up the chords for Saturday. Bruins, while game, are
    simply outmatched.
    
    MikeL
    
    PS. I walk into my office this morning and find that it's bedecked
    with signs " PENS DO IT AGAIN" and "BARRASSO SAYS NOT. PRINCE OF
    WALES CHAMPIONS PENS"  Dadgum female co-worker, native Pittsburgese,
    U of Pitt grad and major ungracious winner! 8^)
    

>   <<< Note 154.353 by CELTIK::JACOB "QUAYLE is DAD of MURPHY BROWN'S KID" >>>
>
>    
>    >>	teams, glory comes only fleetingly.  BTW, if the Broons were
>               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>    
>    Sorta like a Fleet enema, here now, gone in a minute, eh 'Saw!!
>    
>    (8^)*
>    
>    JaKe



In the Roman Empire, when a conqueror would parade triumphantly
home in his chariot, riding down the streets through the throngs
of citizens, a slave would be positioned at his right hand.

The slave's duty was to, every so often, whisper in the conqueror's
ear "Momento Mori"......

"Remember, you are mortal".


Glory is fleeting......

;^)    

    	Is this the same JaKe who when I met him at the "Great Other
    Place Beer Keg Draining" and told him I thought the Pengoons would
    beat the Rangers said they wouldn't make the playoffs?
    
    				/Don

>    	Is this the same JaKe who when I met him at the "Great Other
>    Place Beer Keg Draining" and told him I thought the Pengoons would
>    beat the Rangers said they wouldn't make the playoffs?
    
    And if you would have told me that, I would have responded the same
    way.  With what little hockey news I could pick up here in the south, I
    saw that the trade for Tochett and Samuelsson was not working, they were
    still recovering from Jagr's ungodly long suspension, and the Pens were
    doing a fold around that time.
    
    They survived to make the playoffs.  When they met the Caps and went
    down 3-1, I wrote them off.  Then something happened, team spirit
    perhaps, and they won (unlike lasted year's first rounder that was
    handed to them by the refs over NJ).
    
    When Lemieux went down at the hands of Graves, I wrote them off.  Then
    folks like Mark and Frank jumped in here and said, "No excuses."  So I
    backed off cautiously but with little hope.  Then something happened
    again, gut check it seems this time, and they won.
    
    Now they are pumping on all cyliders.  This is not the same Penguin
    team that we knew at the Great Other Place Get Together.  They are
    focused and hungry...and I think Badger Bob's memory has a lot to do
    with it too.
    
    	--dan'l
    	

>    folks like Mark and Frank jumped in here and said, "No excuses."  So I


I never said "No excuses"...that was JD. 8^)

I said that I thought they did well without Lemieux last year, and I also
praised the Pens, and said that folks like Ron Francis would need to
step to the fore, which he did, they beat the Rangers and now are beating
up on the Bruins.

They may have played like shit this year, but they are definitely peaking
at the right time.  Barasso is getting hot -- he ain't as good as Moog,
but he is getting hot, and with the offense the Pens have going, well....


'Saw

From:	DECWRL::"[email protected]" "James Wardle" 22-MAY-1992 11:04:08.58
To:	[email protected] (frank way), [email protected] (/don), [email protected], [email protected] (mike childs)
CC:	
Subj:	Goons, Loons, Buffoons, BROONS

Hey youze  guys, whats wrong wit da broons?

hawwww....get out the brooms....sweeeeeeepppppp!

joJ

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% Subject: Goons, Loons, Buffoons, BROONS
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% Date: Fri, 22 May 92 10:56:56 EDT
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when's somebody going to BLAM (tm) IT on Saw???

 mike

    And just to show you that Penguin fans are beer-drinking main's main,
    let me share this with you.  
    
    Ever since Borque has been playing for Pittsburgh, my friends have been
    playing a drinking game while they watch the Pens on the tube. 
    Everytime Borque's name is mentioned, you say "Borque, Borque, Borque,
    Borque" (ala the Swedish Chef from the Muppet Show) and then drink.  If
    he scores, you chug.
    
    This game really gets fun when Pittsburgh plays Boston.
    
    My one buddy called one of the radio shows the other day and told them
    about our game and apparantly they broadcast it and it was  picked up
    by a few other DJ's on other stations they liked the idea so much.
    
    	--dan'l

 There's just no end to the fascinating creativity, razor-sharp wit, and
 lovable little-boy charm of those marvelous young lads from Pittsburgh, is
 there ???
 
 What will they think of next ???
 
 Bob Hunt

    Hey, we're still Borquing it up in Pittsburgh while Philly is playing
    Zoom-Shwartz-Perfigliano.
    
    Besides, I wanted to share that with the Bruins fans so that they can
    play tomorrow night...makes the game much more fun and with Borque�,
    you're mostly unconscious by the third period.  
    
    	--dan'l

    Yeah Slasher, this is the same "JaKe".  See --dan'l's note.
    
    At the point we met, the Pens were pulling a Titanic act, and the bow
    was barely above water.  About 20 minutes after my prediction, somebody
    patched the leak, pumped the water, and I been eating crow ever since.
    
    I know I predicted they wouldn't make the playoffs, but go back and
    read --dan'l's note and see if you woulda thunk the same if you watched
    them night in and night out and same them blow leads, make mental
    errors by the dozen, etc.
    
    Just cover the crow with mustard and give me a Newkie Brown to wash it
    down and then we'll get on to whether the Pens will help the Broons get
    to their early Tee times after game 4 or game 5.
    
    JaKe
    

    As Badger Bob would've said, 
    
    It's a GREAT day for hockey.
    
    And it WAS a great day(night) for hockey.
    
    The Pens repeared tonite as Stanley Cup Champoins, defeating the
    Chicago Blackhawks, 6-5, and sweeping the best of seven series.
    The Pens tied an NHL record, set this year by the Blackhawks, winning
    11 straight games enroute to the Championship.
    
    Twas a great night for hockey
    
    JaKe
    

 you knew they were doomed when Hunter came out of the closet as a fan....

 ;^)

    RE .366
    
    Are you sure about winning 11 straight, I know they swept Boston and 
    Chicago but I thought the Rangers won game 4 to make it 2-2 then the
    Pens won the last 2......I may be wrong though...
    
    
    Tom

    Pens won last 3 in a row against the Rangers.  Game 4 was the turning
    point of that series.  The Rangers, with a 2-1 lead in the series, had
    a lead in the Igloo.  Pittsburgh tied it late and won it in OT before
    taking games 5 and 6.
    
    John

  Not only have the Pens won, but the Pittsburgh teams have continued
  their incredible record of winning when invited to the big dance.

  In my lifetime, they've never lost when the championship was on the line.

	Pirates		60, 71, 79
	Steelers	74, 75, 78, 79
	Pens		91, 92		
	
  Some people would also include the Pitt panthers when Tony Dorsett lead
  them to a national championship. And I believe a Pittsburgh basketball
  team also won a non-NBA championship.

	Keith

>  Some people would also include the Pitt panthers when Tony Dorsett lead
>  them to a national championship. And I believe a Pittsburgh basketball
>  team also won a non-NBA championship.
    
    As did the Pittsburgh Triangles (pro tennis).  The entire list is
    somewhere in the depths of this note right after last year's Penguins
    championship.  However, I still contend that the Pittsburgh Gladiators
    played in and lost the first-ever arena football championship.
    
    	--dan'l
    

    mike, Youre  right i was rooting for them hawks, i like them uniforms
    
    very happy  for Franics and Ulfie
    
    
    Dinz
    

�< Note 154.374 by AXIS::ROBICHAUD "NobodyDoesBlewLikeDockers�" >
�              -< Dinz, please root for DaBulls.  Pretty please? >-


Stop begging, will ya. Just cough up the money for a Manis� tee shirt.    

    go portland.. 

    - Darryl Sutter, Scotty Bowman's assistant, says he has been promised
    the head coaching job next year.
    
    - The Penguins victory party will be at Three Rivers Stadium Thursday
    at noon.  Pirates have a game that night.  Hate to be the clean up
    crew there.
    
    - Lemieux said of winning the Conn Smythe Trophy, "It should have gone
    to Tommy.  I thought it should be him all the way."
    
    - Jagr: "I don't know what is so hard. I have been here two years and I
    have won two Stanley Cups."
    
    - Ron Francis admitted he has been playing with torn knee cartilage
    since February and will have to have surgery.
    
    - Trottier wants to return next year to try for his seventh Stanley
    Cup.
    

    dan'l,
    Darryl Sutter is the Chicago asst. coach. You sure USA didn't say he
    was promised the Blackhawks' head coaching job by Mike Keenan?
    
    MikeL
    

    What is the record number of Stanley Cups won by a player??
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    I would guess Henri Richard. 

    Possibly any of the old Canadians;
    
    Henri or Maurice Richard
    Jean Beliveau
    Dickie Moore
    Doug Harvey
    Jaques LeMaire
    
    
    Rich
    

    I would go with Beliveau or the Pocket Rocket.
    
    They won Cups together in 68-69, 71 and 73. Also think they were around
    for '66. That's six. Possible two others in the early 60's. 63 and 65??
    
    MikeL
    

    
    Question asked of Scotty Bowman.
    
    Would you return as coach of the Penguins next year?
    
    "I don't know.  But if I can get a contract like Pat Riley or Chuck
    Daly, I'll coach.  Who wouldn't?"
    
    \pjb
    

    Henri Richard played from about 1955 to the early '70s, so that's a
    lot of Cups. Maurice was quite a few years older than Henri. He played
    through the 40s to around 1960.
    
    Tom

    My bad.  I misread the paragraph regarding Daryl Sutter.  Keenan is
    expected to give up the job and Sutter has been promised the position.
    
    Henri Richard (according to the same article) holds the record of 11
    Stanley Cups.
    
    	--dan'l

>    Henri Richard (according to the same article) holds the record of 11
>    Stanley Cups.
    
That's a ring for each finger,
a ring for each toe, 
with one ring left to be put on his.....


	uh, Nose, yeah that's it, his nose.....

�That's a ring for each finger,
�a ring for each toe, 
�with one ring left to be put on his....
    
    Even if we don't count the thumbs as fingers, that's 19 rings...

>�That's a ring for each finger,
>�a ring for each toe, 
>�with one ring left to be put on his....
>    
>    Even if we don't count the thumbs as fingers, that's 19 rings...


I was talking Base 5.  In base 5 21 = 11 in base 10...yeah, that's it.
That's what it was....


(Hey, it rhymed pretty well didn't it?)

    There was a big victory celebration here in Pittsburgh today for the
    Pens Back-To-Back Stanley Cup wins.
    
    They held it at Three Rivers Stadium and got between 35,000 and 40,000
    fans on this wet rainy dingy day. 
    
    I had set the VCR to record the event, which BTW was being carried live
    on three local stations, but the Boro of Pitcairn, where I live,
    decided to cut power at 11:30 for some changing of a transformer about
    2 poles down from my house, and the damned memory cleared on the thang
    and I didn't get any of it.  Me and Mrs. JaKe along with the 2 youngest
    JaKes had stepped out to a local legendary restaurant fer a quiet(sure
    with a 6 year old and a 3 year old)lunch, so I missed the thang
    altogether.
    
    Someone said that Mayor Sophie Masloff(900 years old and an IQ of 7, on
    a good day) practiced introducing Metallica and Black Sabbath a few
    times from the stage, but I don't believe them.  (8^)*  Sorta a private
    joke that only Pgh'ers or someone familiar with the old bag would
    understand.
    
    More when I get it on the Big Celebration.
    
    YEAH PENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    
   > I had set the VCR to record the event, which BTW was being carried live
   > on three local stations, but the Boro of Pitcairn, where I live,
   > decided to cut power at 11:30 for some changing of a transformer about
   > 2 poles down from my house, and the damned memory cleared on the thang
   > and I didn't get any of it.
    
    Another lawsuit!
    
    glenn
    

    
    >>Another lawsuit!
    
    >>glenn
    
    Who do I sue, the Boro power guys or the VCR manufacturer????
    
    I know, I'll sue the TV stations, too, since they didn't record and
    then show it on delay, plus the Pens for scheduling it at noon instead
    of 12:30 when the power was on, the city of Ptiisburgh because Sophie
    is a moron, The State of Pennsylvania for GP's.
    
    Know any good lawyers who work on contingency basis?????
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    	Geez JaKe, I could've sworn that was you sliding across the
    tarpaulin in Three Rivers on the news lasted night.
    
    				/Don

    Rumor has it that there was a party at Mario Lemieux's house on
    Wednesday night and the boys took the cup swimming in his pool.
    
    They drank IC Light out of it in the locker room the night they won.
    
    	--dan'l

The event got coverage on our local staion, WFSB-TV3, on the Sports News.

Since Ronnie Francis is *still* big news in Hartford, Dave Smith, our
first-string sportscaster, showed a clip, with Mario in the front, and
Scottie Bowman etc etc.

Ronnie Francis was slightly in the background, and Dave Smith says

	"And if you look in the background, there's Ronnie Francis.
	 Oh, by the way, the gray hair he's starting to get came
	 from being here in Hartford"


Brutal, Dave, Brutal!


'Saw

    
    re: Mario's pool
    
    They did the same thing last year.
    
    Boring..8^))
    
    Steve

    	Yeah, at least the Oilers brought the thing to an exotic dancing
    establishment in Edmonton.  Now there's imagination.
    
    				/Don

Wait a minute here! They're drinking I.C. Light. All bets are off.

TTom

    Mac and MikeL, why is Bob Johnson so glorified?  I think Scotty Bowman
    put it most eloquently yesterday:

    "The coach of the Penguins will always be Bob Johnson.  Thanks to Bob
    Johnson, all of this is possible."

    	--dan'l

I think he was one of those rare people who truly loved what he did,
and could spread the infectious joy about what he did to other people.

There are not many people like that around, that I know of.  And sometimes,
they're here for an all too brief time.   In Shakespearean terms you'd say
"their hour upon the stage" was cut a little short.


'Saw

    Bob Johnson will forever be the coach of the Wisconsin Badgers.  Sorry
    noveau-Johnson fans in Pittsburgh.  The guy was great, but its at
    Wisconsin where he was at his best, where his greatness came out - and
    not in his short tenure  in Pittsburgh - try as the noveau Yuppie
    hockey fans of the Used-to-be-Steel town try...
    
    JD

                               
    > Bob Johnson will forever be the coach of the Wisconsin Badgers.  Sorry
    > noveau-Johnson fans in Pittsburgh.  The guy was great, but its at
    > Wisconsin where he was at his best, where his greatness came out - and
    > not in his short tenure  in Pittsburgh - try as the noveau Yuppie
    > hockey fans of the Used-to-be-Steel town try...
    
    Good one, JD.  At least those nouveau Penguins' fans aren't quite so
    nouveau as you to recognizing hockey talent, as in greatness, as in
    Mario.  "Badger" Bob did...  ;-)
    
    glenn
    

    Glenn -
    
    C'mon now.  Anyone who has been in this file for a long time - longer
    than perhaps you have been - and I know longer than Dan'l - knows that
    my Mario comments were in direct responce to one and only one person -
    Charlie Partee.  Who for seasons put in long notes everytime Mario
    broke wind, yet Mario never did anything for his team (until last
    year).
    
    The other person was a guy named Schramm - who in here, and as TCM can
    testify, in the NYMETS conference, we had friendly rivalries over the
    Pens and Rangers.  
    
    You and Dan'l simply have reacted without knowing history.  Much as
    folks have to my Air Jordan bashes - which were in direct response to
    one and only one person - M_Air Brooks and his Pro-Jordanian notes...
    
    JD

    
    I was jest teasing you a bit, JD, but you do take that "this guy ain't
    worth a damn unless he's just won a ring" philosophy.  I disagree that 
    Mario "never did anything for his team" until he won a championship--
    hell, he saved the franchise, long before the Pens were Stanley Cup
    contenders.  I remember a few years ago arguing with you that
    circumstances *do* matter, that Gretzky was a winner because he was
    great *and* because of the surrounding cast and that we'd see what 
    would happen with the LA Kings-- I believe you predicted they'd win 
    the Cup before Mario would because Gretzky "makes everyone around him 
    so much better", the implication being that Lemieux didn't.  Two
    Stanley Cups later, that hasn't held up.  I have a historical 
    perspective on this...
    
    Whatever happened to Charlie Partee, anyways?  ;-)
    
    glenn
     

    Glenn -
    
    I got the "GUy aint worth  a damn without a champeenship ring" schtick
    from Celtics fans, who used to prove that Greg Kite was better than
    AKeem or someone like that.  ;-)
    
    jD

    So, JD, if you only have a problem with one particular noter's view of
    the world, why not take it off line?

    Mac -
    
    It was usually back and forth type stuff - which goes on all the time. 
    
    JD - 
    

    
             -< Sports Illustrated Magazine when Penguins won Cup >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Looking for the Sports Illustrated Magazine when the Pittsburgh
    Penguins won the Stanely cup a couple of weeks ago....

    If anyone has this laying around and is about to throw it out, send me
    mail.... 

    Thanks!

    Tom Skabo
    SPEZKO::SKABO
    ZK01-1/F22
    381-2798

    Yeah I probably have it but have no intention of sending it to
    any steeenkin' Penguin fan :-) Well if JaKe changes his p-name to
    NY Rangers in 1993 I might send it out :-)
    
    Seriously, I'll look around tonight, if I still have it lying around
    its yours.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

   I heard a rumor while I was in Buffalo yesterday:

    Jim Schoenfeld is gonna be named the coach.

    Can anybody confirm this ??

    Schoney's been hit in the head with a puck too many times, if you ask
    me.
    

    Say it ain't so, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!
    
    Rumor has it that Eddie Johns(T)on, yep, good ole EJ hisself, is going
    to be named as the next Pens head coach.
    
    The Pens ahve had trouble getting anybody to take the job.  Guess it
    has something to do with taking over a two time cup winner and the
    pressure there'll be to win a third, or sumpthin.
    
    Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit!!!
    
    JaKe
    
    
    

Say it ain't so....


Bill

    	When a team has the talent the Pengoons� do the coach doesn't
    matter.  DaBroons� won a Stanley Cup with Tom Johnson (A.K.A. BowTie,
    no relation).
    
    				/Don

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa


heehheeehheeeheeeheeehhehhhehheheheeeee


Oh that's rich.....



hahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahaha


hee heeh hee heee..........

    
>>           <<< Note 154.415 by CAMONE::WAY "Feed My Frankenstein" >>>

>>hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa


>>heehheeehheeeheeeheeehhehhhehheheheeeee


>>Oh that's rich.....



>>hahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahaha


>>hee heeh hee heee..........

    
    Cold, 'Saw, Cold!!!
    
    JaKe
    

	Hey JaKe, 
	
	Nice p-name:

>>  CSOA1::JACOB "Carp Per Diem"

	You must be dreaming about those fine meals you will be having on your
	trip to massatwoshits.   ;^)

	Bill

    re-.1
    
    Pittsburgh Surf and Turf=
    
    Carp and Kielbasa
    
    JaKe
    

    I heard while was in the Steel City that Jagr was signed to a multiyear
    contract.  At his age I hate comparing him against the likes of
    Lemieux, but his skills are really phenominal.  
    
    Can you say "three-peat"?
    
    Bill

       Hope your right Bill, I got LOTS a Jagr rookie cards!!
                                       Denny

	Does anyone know who is coaching this team during the pre-season?

	I really find it hard to believe that nobody wants this job.  Then
	again, without the newspapers in Pgh, it may be that they are trying
	to find someone to do the job for minimum wage.


	Bill

    SCHONEY !   SCHONEY !! SCHONEY!!
    

>    SCHONEY !   SCHONEY !! SCHONEY!!
    
       BBBZZZZZTTTTT!! Sorry, wrong answer, he signed on to be a color main
    on ESPN.
                                                Denny

    Pens have a news conference scheduled for 5pm today, reportedly to
    announce the signing of Super Mario to a long term deal worth major
    donero.
    
    JaKe
    

    Mariosigns contract worth $42mil over the nexted 7 years.
    
    Word has it that it is either 7 years or "lifetime" if'n he retires
    before the 7 year point.
    
    ANyroad, after he retires, he goes into the Pens organization for the
    rested of his life.
    
    Not too shabby
    
    JaKe
    

    
    ESPN reported that this contract *only* puts him in 6th place
    of the "all-time big contracts" list.
    
    For extra credit, name and list the pay for the top 5.
    
    (hint: 1st place is owned by a basketball player)
    
    I remain,
    wondering how many players will wanna renegotiate their paltry
    contracts?
    Kev
    

    1. Magic 
    2. Ryne Sanberg
    3. Patrick Ewing ?
    4. Bobby Bonilla 
    5. Some other basketball shmoe... 

 Ripken makes more than Bonilla. I'd also venture a guess that David Robinson
 and "I wanna by like me" belong there...

The sad part, Karen, is that you are WORTH the big bucks too!


;^)

    Uh 'Saw waht did you mean by that?? ;-)
    
    deen to wonk (tm)
    
    The Crazy Met
    

What I meant was that like many other folks in this company,
Karen is not paid anywhere near what she's worth, for the job she
does.

Of course, DEC already has a salary cap in place, so it's highly
unlikely any of us will ever make the really big bucks we deserve 8^)


'Saw

    The Pens announced this AM that, once again, and not a moment too soon,
    Scotty Bowman will be the coach this year.
    
    He signed a new 5 year deal with the Pens which will have him doing
    "various jobs" within the organization for the nexted five years.
    
    
    Schnort Schitt Schleps
    
    JaKe
    

       Dale Arnold was talking to the ESPN play-by-play guy on WEEI this
    morning. They thought it would have been a neat idea if the Pens waited
    to announce the coach. What they could a done was, when the lights went
    down for the Anthem they sneak Scotty out and hide him under the bench.
    when the lights come on, he pops up like a Jack-in-da-box. Either that,
    or he comes out with a bag over his haid. They both thought Bowman
    woulda gone along with it too!
                              Denny

    	Harry Sinden is being the doom and gloom prophet over the Mario
    signing.  I guess his "cash poor" Broons will have to raise ticket
    prices again next year to stay competitive.  Poor Harry.
    
    				/Don

    
    I wonder who that was holding up a PENS-1 *New Hampshire* license plate 
    early in the Pens' opener last night?
    
    glenn
    

re: PENS-1

	Glenn,

	I saw that same plate on the tube last year during the payoffs.
	I've been looking for it up here in "Cow Hampshire", but I figureed
	it must be a transplant that lives down there now.

	Maybe next time my plates are due to be renewed I'll check to see 
	if it is available.


	Bill

    Anybuddy out there with a newspaper that could post who scored during
    the Pens Islanders game lasted night???
    
    I know it ended 7-3, Pens, but who scored????
    
    Thanks
    
    JaKe
    

    >> Anybuddy out there with a newspaper that could post who scored during
    >> the Pens Islanders game lasted night???
    
    >>  I know it ended 7-3, Pens, but who scored????
         
    
            First Period:
    
                      New York, Berg(2) (Fitzgerald, Mullen) 2:47
                      Pittsburgh, Tocchet(2) (Stevens, Lemieux) 17:08 pp
    
            Second Period:
    
                      New York, Norton(1) (Thomas, Ferraro) 5:44
                      Pittsburgh, Murphy(1) (Jagr, Lemieux) 6:03
                      New York, Turgeon(1) (Kurvers, Thomas) 10:13 pp
                      Pittsburgh, Stanton(1) (Lemieux, Stevens) 19:24
    
            Third Period
    
                      Pittsburgh, Jagr (1) (Murphy) 2:20
                      Pittsburgh, Lemieux(2) (K. Samuelsson) 8:38
                      Pittsburgh, Lemieux(3) (Jagr, Jennings) 11:44
                      Pittsburgh, McEachern (Francis, U. Samuelsson) 14:34
    
    
    			- tfb -

    re.440
    
    Thanks a ton.
    
    JaKe
    

	On a brighter note...

	The Pens are playing habs tonight at the Igloo.  God willing, 
	Mario & Co. will make stides at healing some of Pgh's sports
	wounds.

	Bill

    re-.1
    
    Pens lead at the end of 2 periods, 4-1.  Mario has a goal and 2
    assists.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens beat the Habs, 5-2.
    
    Pens are 3-0-2. with 8 points.
    
    JaKe
    

    Thanks JaKe for the update and final score.  I talked TCM into a
    few Fosters and we talked about lots of changes we'd like to see,
    but all in all he was successful in talking me out of the trip
    to the bridge.  And thanks to the JaKester, I'll sleep well this 
    evening.
    
    
    Bill

    Bill
    
    I got a reserved jump time of 9am Monday morning(it was the first
    opening they had) at the Westinghouse bridge.
    
    There is a $5 cancellation fee, though, so I don't know if I'll back
    out cause I cain't afford the $5.
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    While you're bridging it Jake, please get Chico Lind's autograph.
    And make sure you wrap it in plastic. Don't want it to get wet when you
    hit the drink.
    
    Mucho 8^)'s
    
    MikeL
    
    
    And JaKe, at least you guys got to the LCS. Don't look like the Sox are
    gonna be near dat thang for a while. Sigh
    

    fwiw: None of the 3 bridges in downtown Pittsburgh are that high up.
    People who jump would very likely survive - unless they didn't know how
    to swim.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

	TCM,

	It's not the height that will kill you, it's what you will be jumping
	into. ;^)

	fwiw,  there are a great deal more than 3 bridges in the burgh.  
	Why else would it dubbed "The City of Bridges"



	Bill

    Actually, the rivers in Pgh are pretty clean nowadays, but in their
    heyday, they had more metal in then than the Steel mills.
    
    The bridge I've got my time reserved at is the Westinghouse Bridge in
    East Pittsburgh, about 9 miles east of the city, and it may still be,
    but it USED to be the world's highest concrete arch bridge.  It's
    something like 335, deck to railroad tracks down below, with a small
    tributary of the Monongahela riverflowing thru it, called Turtle Creek,
    which, on a good day, is about 4 feet deep, not enough to break a fall
    of that proportion.
    
    JaKe
    

    PENS WIN!!
    
    The Pens beat Vancouver tonite, 5-1.  Mario had 2 goals and an assist
    in raising his league leading point total to 22 in 7 games.  He has a
    seven game scoring streak, having scored in every game so far this
    season.
    
    The Pens are now 5-0-2.
    
    JaKe
    

	re: preseason

	Yabut, it's how you do in the "preseason" that determines home
	ice  in the "regular season"


	Bill

>>    Pitts.  9  Detriot 6
	
	I know I probably shouldn't mention this, but better me than
	JaKe_the_Jinx,

	What is the record for unbeaten NHL teams at the beginning of the
	season?

	Bill

    Bill, ya forgot to mention that Mario had 5 more points lasted night,
    raising his league leading, on record pace total at (damn I wish we had
    newspapers here) I think 27 in eight games.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Jsut what is Mr. Not-So-Great-One-Anymore Gretzky's record point total
    anyways????  And how many games per season was played way back then???
    
    JaKe
    

    Gretzky's point record is 212, 92 goals (a record), 120 assists.
    Number of games was 80.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

                                                                
 >   Gretzky's point record is 212, 92 goals (a record), 120 assists.
 >   Number of games was 80.
 
    My reference shows 215, in 1985-86, with 52 goals, 163 assists.  Has
    Lemieux broken 200 points in the last three seasons?  He has, right?
    
    glenn
    

    Gee... If he breaks the record, does he get an asterisk next to it, to
    signify the longer season? Where is Ford Frick when you need him?!?!?!
    
    many ;*)
    
    Dennis Faust
    

    
    >>My reference shows 215, in 1985-86, with 52 goals, 163 assists.  Has
    >>Lemieux broken 200 points in the last three seasons?  He has, right?
    
    That was an 80 game season, right??
    
    Is this year going to be a longer season?????  
    
    We without newspapers of any wualilty wants to know here in Pgh.
    
    Anyhow, if he SHOULD break it, and does it in less than 80 games, or in
    the 80th game, then the asterisk a__holes have nothing to complain
    about, right??
    
    JaKe
    

    Part of the agreement lst April was an 84 game season in 1992-3.
    
    Glenn is right, 215 points. Record for goals is 92, record for asists
    is his 163.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Jeesss... JaKe, take a chill pill, it was a joke...
    
    Dennis Faust
    

    Mr Faust,
    
    I sorta forgot to enter the "(8^)*", if'n ya know whut I mean.
    
    Sorry
    
    
    JaKe
    
    

>NAC::G_WAUGAMAN                                       9 lines  23-OCT-1992 17:08
>    My reference shows 215, in 1985-86, with 52 goals, 163 assists.  Has
>    Lemieux broken 200 points in the last three seasons?  He has, right?
    
    No.  Mario's best was 199 points in 88.  He missed 4 games that year
    due to a scratched cornea.  Also that year, he had 5 low-point games 
    (6 points in 5 games) due to severe chest bruises from some stick 
    brutality by former-Ranger David Shaw.  Since that year, Mario's 
    missed at least 20% of each season due to injuries.
    
    After last night, Mario has 30 points in 9 games.  Unless he scores
    7+ points against Ottawa on Tuesday (a possibility, of course; he had a
    2-5-7 game against San Jose last year), this year isn't even his fastest 
    start.  In 89, he had 37 points in 10 games.   It's just getting more 
    publicity this year because of EPSN and because the marginal hockey fans 
    (like the SportsCenter writers) are more aware of the Penguins and of 
    Mario due to their consecutive Cups and Conn-Smythe trophies.
    
    The projection to 280 points for the season is highly questionable 
    due to Mario's health.
    
    Gretzky has four 200+ point years.
    
    The above is from memory, so I could be wrong.  (I'm wondering if 
    maybe Mario's fastest start was 34 points in 10 games...)
    
    Charlie
    

One thing that I'm really pleased about, as a non-Penguin fan, is that
Ronnie Francis seems to have found such a comfortable niche in Pittsburgh.

The man obviously is not a Mario or a Gretzky, but he certainly has class.

I know when he was in Hartford he used to do a lot for the community.
Is he doing a lot out there?  Or is it hard to find out without newspapers....


'Saw

    
    The Pens kept the winning streak going tonite, beating Ottawa 7-2.
    
    Mario extended his scoring streak to 10 games, and Ulf Samuelsson had a
    good night, scoring a coupla goals and some assist(s).
    
    
    GO PENS!!!!!!!!!1
    
    JaKe
    
                                                                   

    JaKe,
    
    You probably mean the unbeaten streak. Actually how many in a row have
    the Pens won?? When do they play the Rangers for the first time?
    
    The Crazy Met
    

	TCM,

	The Pens play the rangers in an away-home, back to back, series
	on Nov 23 & 25.

	Hopefully it will be on SportsChannel


	Bill

    Bill, 
    
    Where you been living? NHL is now on ESPN not SportsChannel, hopefully
    it will be in ESPN.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

>    Where you been living? NHL is now on ESPN not SportsChannel, hopefully
>    it will be in ESPN.
    
Wrong.

NHL is still carried on SPORTSchannel if there are contract wif local
teams.


hth,
'Saw    

    But only on the local SportsChannel so in the Boston area
    Rangers-Penguins would be on ESPN. Also neither team is on
    SportsChannel - well I am sure the Rangers are not.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    SO I made a mistake, I think they've won 4 or 5 in a row, though.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    The Pens unbeaten streak came to an end lasted night at the hands of
    the St. Louis Blues.  Mario had two goals, but I don't know if he had
    any assists, but he extended his scoring streak to 11 games with the
    performance.  He now has 16 goals in 11 games.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens shutout the Islanders tonite, 2-0.
    
    Mario's 12 game scoring streak came to a close, though.
    
    JaKe
    

    And Mario was named NHL's player of the month for October.

	Pens drop two this weekend, to Toronto and the Blackhawks.  Oh well,
	like someone said earlier this is just the "pre-season".


	Bill

    An unnamed Penguin is now said to have been in the motel room with
    North Star Quinn when he allegedly raped a young woman a few nights
    ago here.  According to the news, Quinn was out with his former teammates
    and some of them helped set up the encounter.
    
    Lemieux is said to be his best friend, but no one is saying he is
    involved.
    
    
    Spud 

    Check that, this morning's Minneapolis Star Tribune said that Lemieux
    IS reported to be the Penguin involved.  The alleged incident occurred in 
    his room and according to the woman's friend (who was also in the room) 
    Lemieux restrained the friend from helping the woman being assulted. 
    The article also mentioned that North Stars players saw Lemieux leaving
    the Met after Tuesday's game through a back exit still in uniform.
    
    According to police, no one other than Quinn is to be charged at this
    time.  
    
    
    Spud

    A.)  Lemieux and Tocchet(sp?) were both "interviewed".
    
    B.)  The Red Wings tattooed the Pens tonight, 8-0.  nuff said.
    
    
    JaKe
    

	Anymore news on the alleged wrong doing by Lemieux?  
	
	Since the thrashing by Detroit the Pens have gone on to beat the 
	likes of Buffalo, da Debels (twice) and dem dere Rangers last night.

	Scotty must have given them a real earfull after the Red Wing game.

	Bill

    Sounds like payback time, bigtime. Score is 10-3 Rangers in the 3rd.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Pens whip the Islanders, 7-3 lasted night.
    
    THe Pens are probably going to petition the league to let them play all
    of their games at the Nassau Coliseum, seeing as they're 9-1-1 in their
    lasted 11 appearances there.
    
    Mario Lemieux scored his 30th goal of the season lasted night, and also
    has 38 assists fer 68 points thru 27 games, a pace of 91 goals and 186
    points fer the season.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens beat the Winnipeg Jets tonite.  Maintain best record in NHL.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens won tonite over the Phlyers.
    
    The Pens have called a news conference to announce that the CLARK candy
    bar company is going to produce a candy bar using Mario's name, sorta
    like the Reggie bar a number of years ago.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens beat the Phlyers, 5-4 in OT as Jaromir Jagr got his 7th game
    winning goal of the season, and his second of the game.  
    
    JaKe
    

    How about dem Broons playin the Pens tonight.
    
    6-2 Pens, Final.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    ...Yeah, didn't seem to miss Mario after the 1st period either.
    
    ...Mel

    Mario re-injured his back lasted night.  They say it's nothing serious,
    just a little tightness, but they sat him out after he re-hurt it just
    as a precaution.
    
    As Mel said, the Pens didn't seem to miss a beat without him, though.
    
    JaKe
    

The guys on WFAN were saying that the Pens get along just fine without
Mario, and they listed some of the goal scorers.

They talked about Ronnie Francis having 11, and then said (quote)
	
	"That was the steal of the century.  I'm sure Hartford
	 fans don't want to hear it, but that was definitely the
	 steal of the century."

They then went on to talk about how one columnist said that Francis could
probably run for Governor of CT and win hands down.....


Anyway, that's the one thing I like about the Pens -- they gave Francis
a chance to win a ring or two (or three the way it looks now....8^))


'Saw

    That trade set the Whale back five years(even losing Ulf the ultimate
    PenGoon).
    
    Burke's gotta try and dig out from under. Po' Cullen had his work
    cut out from the beginning. The fact that he sucked pond water
    certainly didn't help his cause. All the Whale fans had to do was
    see Francis sipping from the Cup and watch SweetBoy do his
    impersonation of Greg Louganis.  He's lucky he's not in the AHL
    
    MikeL