Conference 7.286::sports_91

    
    	My favorite is "Hoosiers".  I still get goose bumps when
    	Jimmy nails that long jumper to win the state champeenship(tm).
    
    	To me, the best part is when Jimmy comes into the town meeting
    	where the townsfolk are deciding Coach Dale's fate.  I love the
    	look on that worm's face when Jimmy sez, "I play, Coach stays.
    	He goes, I go."
    
    	Claybroon

1st tier

Hoosiers
The Natural
Field of dreams
Eight men out
Bang the drum slowly
chariots of fire

2nd tier

Downhill racer
major league
the longest yard
boy blue

3rd tier

gus the mule that kicker field goals
the strongest man in the world
son of flubber

 The Jim Thorpe Story. It was the begining of my anti-establishment/authority
 upbring. Take his medals away how dare they!!!!!!!!

 mike

    All this sports movie stuff got me to thinking about a_old
    ::Sports version, maybe 3 years ago.
    
    The discussion was about the athelete of the year and everybody
    was sticking stuff in that note about guys like Edwin Moses,
    Al Oerter, Joe Namath, Nolan Ryan, et al ad nauseum...
    
    Anyway, Ken Upton (where is he anyway?) put in what, IMO,
    had to be one of the absolutely best notes I ever read.
    
    Ken said something about the best athletes in the world had to be
    the guys in the porno flicks, having to put up with the poor
    working conditions, hot lights, cameras inches from their johnsons,
    their "endurance", etc.
    
    Incredible, simply incredible.......
    
    my $0.02
    Kev
    

    Rating: 	*****
    
    	Hoosiers
    	Bull Durham
    	Eight Men Out
    	Field Of Dreams
    
    Rating:	****
    
    	The Natural
    	The Longest Yard
    	North Dallas Forty
    	Bang The Drum Slowly
    	Pride Of The Yankees
    
    Rating:	***
    
    	Major League
    
    Rating:	**
    
    	Semi-Tough
    	Amazing Grace and Chuck
    
    Rating:	*
    
    	The Fish That Saved Pittsburgh
    	Any of the Bad News Bears garbage
    
    Rating:	
    
    	A Dome Named Dean (whenever it comes out)
    
    For starters ...
    
    Bob Hunt

    One of the best: Raging Bull with Robert DiNiro, directed by Martin
    Scorcese.  (I probably spelled both wrong).  
    
    I also liked Rollerball.  Now, *that's* a sport!
    
    Pete

    I'm surpised at the sport noters in here.. One of the all time great
    movies about football has not been mention...
    
    James Caan... Billie Dee WIlliams...
    I shouldn't even tell you what the movis was about... ANY TRUE FOLLOWER
    OF SPORTS WILL KNOW WHAT MOVIE I AM SHOUTING ABOUT!
    
    George Plimpton (SP) did a couple of off the wall stuff with the Lions
    and Bruins...
    
    REK
    

    >>James Caan... Billie Dee WIlliams...
    >>I shouldn't even tell you what the movis was about... ANY TRUE FOLLOWER
    >>OF SPORTS WILL KNOW WHAT MOVIE I AM SHOUTING ABOUT!
    
    
    Funny, I didn't notice Billy Dee Williams in "Misery".  For that matter,
    I didn't notice anything relating to sports in "misery", either.
    
    
    JaKe
     

    Jake, get a clue will you!!!
    
    How about the Chicago bears.... Brian and Gale...
    
    REK
    
    SOME NOTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 "Brian's Song" was *NOT* a sports movie.   I'm sorry ...  I know it was
 famous and all that but that was a tear-jerker movie all the way, baby.
 
 My wife and I have this long-time running joke about what I call by her
 first name ... "Cindy Movies".   
 
 As soon as I hear the story line about, oh, I dunno, the bum alcoholic
 father who leaves the home, the mother working three jobs, the dog has
 cancer, the kid needs an operation, the other son is a druggie Nam vet,
 the older sister was a stew on the doomed hijacked TWA flight, they lose
 all their money when Love Canal was polluted and on and on ... man, I just
 roll my eyes skyward and shake my head because here comes another "Cindy
 Movie".
 
 I can even tell you who plays in these things ... Lindsay Wagner, Valerie
 Bertinelli, Mary Tyler Moore, Jean Stapleton, ...   I mean, you *NEVER*
 catch *real* women like Cher or Kathleen Turner or Michelle Pfieffer
 playing these roles, do you ???   And you never see Nicholson or DeNiro or
 Duvall in these, either.
 
 What were we talking about ???  Oh, yeah, "Brian's Song" was 1,000% "Cindy
 Movie".  It is *NOT* a sports movie if my wife makes unbreakable plans a
 week in advance to see it for the 15th (or was that the 19th ???) time.  
 They made that movie for the buckets of tears, pure and simple.
 
 Case in point ... I'm typing this from my den at home and Cindy just
 walked in the room, looked over my shoulder and read a line or two of what
 I have been typing, and said ...
 
 	"'Brian's Song' ???   Oh my God, do we have *that* on tape ???"
 
 Case dismissed.
 
 Bob Hunt

    How about "Bingo Longs' Traveling All-Stars and Motor Kings"
    Starring Billy Dee Williams,James Earl Jones, Richard
    Pryor and a few other popular black actors and actresses.
    It's about a Barnstorming Baseball team that later gave
    the Major leagues Jackie Robinson. The movie is Fiction. 

    The best sports move of all time was:
    
    
    Kansas City Bomber!!!
    
    A real sport - roller derby - a real broad - Racquel Welch, action,
    suspense, tears, joy, Titles and Acquisitions.
    
    Raquel's best stuff since 10000000000 years BC...
    
    JD

    Hunt, the movis was about a sports figure. get a clue will you!

    re .12
    
    The only difference between a "Cindy movie" and a "Marcia movie" (my
    wife) is that Marcia is partial to "true stories".  It never fails that
    one of them shows up on TV on Sunday night.
    
    I went to a football camp when I was in high school, and every time it
    would rain they would show "Brian's Song".  By the end of two weeks,
    200 teenagers were saying the lines of the movie along with the actors. 
    It was pretty funny.
    
    re .14
    
    You're right JD, Kansas City Bomber was a dream come true for the
    average 15 year old (saw it three times myself).
    
    =Bob=

Hows about "Slap Shot" with Paul Newman and those two idiotic brothers?

What the heck was the name of their hockey team?

rick

�    Hunt, the movis was about a sports figure. get a clue will you!
    
 Oh, really ???  Since when do they make a "sports" movie about a slow
 white second-string running back from Wake Forest who played maybe 2 or 3
 years for a mediocre Chicago Bears team in the mid-1960s ???
    
 Brian Piccolo stays healthy and that movie *never* gets made.
 
 Geez, I can hardly wait for "The Brad Muster Story" ... starring Lindsay
 Wagner as Mrs. Ditka, right ???
 
 Bob Hunt

    Hey Hunt, get a real clue.. Read the title in the base note.
    Brian's sony was about him and the team.
    
    REK

    
>And you never see Nicholson or DeNiro or Duvall in these, either.
    		   ^^^^^^^^^
    
    'Terms of Endearment,' of course he was the only saving grace for this
    one.
    
    Ever go to a theater to see one of these?  When the lights go on, it's
    one of the funniest sights.  Every woman is balling and every guy is
    sitting there with chin resting on hand asking himself why he paid
    money to see something like that.
    
    	--dan'l

 � Every woman is balling ...
 
 Shouldn't that be "bawling", Dan'l ???    That's one helluva Freudian slip
 there, guy.
 
 Maybe I ought to go to the movies more often !!!
 
 Bob Hunt

    re .17:
    
    >	Hows about "Slap Shot" with Paul Newman and those two idiotic brothers?

    >   What the heck was the name of their hockey team?
    
    It was the Hanson brothers (there were three of them), and the team was
    the Charlestown Chiefs.  One of my favorite mindless flicks.
    
    
    An oldie but goodie I haven't seen for a while -- "Requiem for a
    Heavyweight", an early 60s black and white flick about a boxer,
    struggling to come to the realization that his career isn't going to go
    on forever...Jackie Gleason was in that, can't remember who played the
    boxer...
    
    
    py

 > I mean, you *NEVER*
 >catch *real* women like Cher or Kathleen Turner or Michelle Pfieffer
 >playing these roles, do you ???   
    
    Bob, you were doing good until you mentioned Cher.  Did anyone else see
    her last night?  YUCK!!!  I think she wears that horrendous, big,
    fluffy wig because she has so much plastic surgery that she's got a big
    old gob of skin in the back of her haid from where they keep pulling
    her face tight.  Then she has the audacity to prance around with just a
    g-string on, flaunting her extremely substandard aquisition thats got
    some spider web tattoo in an obvious effort to hide the cellulite.  She
    makes things even worse by wearing this ripped up top that could have
    bared her titles and no one would have known because they ain't there. 
    I think one of them Almond brothers stole them when they split.  The
    way she was looking, I think she was trying to make a play for one of
    her daughter's girlfriends.  But it got worse.  She started singing. 
    At that point I realized it was really Sonny who carried her with his
    load of talent way back when they were Lee's favorite act.  I watched
    about 30 seconds of that crap and decided it was time to do something
    more fun, like pluck my nose hairs.
    
    Bruce  
 

    
    
    	How about _Pride of the Yankees_?
    

    
    > The only difference between a "Cindy movie" and a "Marcia movie" (my
    
    You guys marry the Brady sisters or something?  That's what too much
    TV'll do to ya...
    
    glenn
    

 or those Dam Yankees....

 "whatever Lola wants Lola gets" Geez I wasn't even old enough to know what
 Lola wanted but I was willing to give it to her....

 mike

.22�    An oldie but goodie I haven't seen for a while -- "Requiem for a
.22�    Heavyweight", an early 60s black and white flick about a boxer,
.22�    struggling to come to the realization that his career isn't going to go
.22�    on forever...Jackie Gleason was in that, can't remember who played the
.22�    boxer...

	I think Anthony Quinn played the boxer and Mickey Rooney played the
trainer.  Proved Rod Serling could do something other than Twilight Zone 
episodes.

				/Don

    If I'm not mistaken Gwen Verdon (who became Don Ameche's wife in
    Cocoon) played Lola in Damn Yankees.
    
    John

Pride of the Yankees was great, with Gary Cooper.

But someone, I forget who, but it was a ballplayer who knew Gehrig
and watched Cooper making the film, said that compared to Gehrig,
Cooper was the world's biggest sissy, and that he couldn't throw
worth a damn....

'Saw

    
    
    	Awright REK and Bob Hunt, both of you go sit in the corner
    	of your offices!  This topic can cover *any* sports related
    	movie that youse wants ;^)
    
    	I'd like to offer up some categories:
    
    Best Football Movie = The Bear (I think that's the title; it was about
    				    Coach Bryant)
    
    Best Baseball Movie = The Natural
    
    Best Basketball Movie = the name escapes me but Robbie Benson had the
    			    lead role
    
    Best Hockey Movie     = Slap Shot
    
    Best Boxing Movie     = Rocky I
    
    Best Sports Comedy    = Major League
    
    Best Cindy/Marcia Movie = Brian's Song
    
    
    
    Claybroon

    
    	Check that Best Basketball, make it "Hoosiers"!
    
    	Claybroon

One on One was the bebson movie...you probably just liked O'Toole's Tittles...

;^)

mike

    Football recruiting movie... Johnny be Good...

    My favorite sports movie is the one about the major league pitcher
    who loses his leg to a hunting accident, but makes a comeback.  I
    can't remember the title other than "The Monte Stratton Story".
    
    Jimmy Stewart played the lead ..... I think.  Great flick.
    
    Also, nobody has mentioned " Fear Strikes Out".  Another good one.
    
    
    Slap Shot ....... funny funny movie.  Remember the Hanson brothers
    wrapping their hands in aluminum foil before the game ?
    
    
    Greg

The Monte Stratton Story it is.  Great movie.

I always liked Jimmy Stewart.  

'Saw

    
    
    	One great baseball movie that I've only seen once and can't
    remember the title though... 
    
    	It was one of those B/W's make in the 40's and was a comedy.
    The story was about a guy who invented this stuff that would repell
    wood.  He put it or gave it to a pitcher to use as hair tonic and 
    when the pitcher would get that stuff on the ball and throw it, the
    ball would move right around the bat.  Clearly this was in the days
    of the spitter..  I do remember that he accidently dumped the stuff
    down the drain before the "big game", but realized that his catcher
    was using the same "greasy kid's stuff".  So everytime he wanted to
    load up, he'd call a conference and rub the catchers head.  The 
    movie ended when he was low on "oil" and caught a vicious liner with
    his pitching hand to end the game, and end his career.
    
    	Anyone know the name of this movie?  I'd love to see it again!
    
    	Then there was the one about the ump (same time period) and used
    the wrong eyedrops and started seeing double.  
    
    	Then old ones were corny, but were pretty funny.
    
    
    
    								bill..g.
    

    Best baseball movie (and Cindy movie, too): "Bang the Drum Slowly"
    
    Re: .37 -- Is it "Son of Flubber"?
    
    /Ed

    'The Natural' is a great baseball movie and it's easy to get hooked on
    it.  But everyone should do themselves a favor and read the book
    instead if you really want to get the most out of the story and what
    baseball really means juxtaposed to life.  Redford ruined the ending
    and much of the setup for it.
    
    'One On One' was a good flick.  Maybe Todd Marinovich should watch it.
    
    Best canoeing movie - Deliverance 8-)
    
    	--dan'l

Funny movie about a scientist/baseball fan who accidentally discovers a 
solution that repells wood.  Works great on baseballs.  Stars Ray Milland.

Not like Son of Flubber.


P.S. Rocky I was great, but Raging Bull is the big leagues.

		Bob Cohen

Here is my list:
    
Rocky
Raging Bull
The Gambler
Fever Pitch
Brian's Song
Let it Ride
    
Greg

    The Ray Miland movie about the wood repellant for baseballs was called
    "It Happens Every Spring".
    
    I also remember a baseball movie call "Safe at Home".  It was made in
    1962, and featured Mickey Mantle and Roger Maris (really).  The basic
    plot was about a star-struck kid trying to get to meet his two heros,
    and finally doing so in spring training.  A real can of corn.
    
    =Bob=

    Slapshot was made in none other than Johnstown, Pa.  as was the Tom
    Cruise movie where he's a high school football player and Craig T.
    Nelson is the a$$hole high school coach who f___s him over for half of
    the movie, but I can't remember the name of the flick.
    
    JaKe
    

All the Right Moves

    Tom Cruise and Craig T. Nelson movie was 'All The Right Moves.'  Good
    entertainment, some tragically true, some totally unbelievable.  The
    girl from 'Footloose' was the hometown cutie...and boy was she ever.
    
    And that reminds me of 'Vision Quest.'  Same description as above...but
    the lead lady in that was was out of sight!  And a cool Madonna song to
    boot.
    
    	--dan'l

    Sorry dan'l u is wrong. Lea THompson was the "cutie". Lori Singer was
    da chick from Footloose.
    
    Vision Quest is an awesome flick.

    He's right, dan'l, Lea Thompson was the babe in "All The Right Moves". 
    Outta sight titles.
    
    Linda 'something' (Farentino or Francisco, I think) was the older woman
    in "Vision Quest" with Matthew Modine as the high-school wrestler who
    had the hots for her.
    
    Best moment for me in *that* movie, as a former high school wrestler
    myself, was when he was warming up to the song "Lunatic Fringe".  Said
    it perfectly.
    
    Bob Hunt

    I'm surprised "Brian's Song" hasn't been mentioned.

    I kind of like Brian's Song myself...
    
    Fish that ate Pittsburgh was a classic.  Any movie that had the
    likes of Eric Money, John Shumate, Ticky Burden and Spencer Heywood
    working with Stockard Channing has to get 2 snaps from 3 point range
    from me.
    
    Bull Durham - Susan Sarandon and candles, nuff said.
    
    Slapshot was great too.  Filmed in Johnstown PA.
    
    -Walt

    How 'bout:
    
    Mid-60's	"The Lonelyness of a Long Distance Runner" (just for
    Sid and JD)
    
    Late '80's	"The Jericho Mile"
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    

    >><<< Note 95.37 by SA1794::GUSICJ "Referees whistle while they work.." >>>
    
    >>	Then there was the one about the ump (same time period) and used
    >>the wrong eyedrops and started seeing double.  
    
    Bill,
    
    That movie was "Kill the Umpire" which starred William Bendix as the
    ump whose claim to fame was the double call.  In his early days he had
    used the wrong eye drops and double called everything earning him the
    nickname.....Two-Call Johnson.
    
    JaKe
    

    Best flatulence movie......Blazing Saddles
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Another good hoops movie was 'Fast Break' with Gabe Kaplin.  It's one
    of those 70's movies, but if you can look past the fashion it's a
    pretty good knee slapper.
    
    And another really great great great story with bad bad bad acting
    (except for Kevin Costnar) is 'American Flyers.'  Which also remindes
    me of 'Breaking Away.'  They tried to make 'Breaking Away' into a TV
    show.  I thought it was pretty good but it got canned early.
    
    	--dan'l

    
    
    
    
    
    "Johnny Dark"
    
    You know......that race car driver.
    
    
    How about that old movie with Pat Boone and he was a horse and buggy 
    driver and the old man taught him how to race?  Obviously I forget the 
    title.
    
    I like the old movies cause they are more believable.
    
    I liked that old Ronald Regan movie where he played some Alexader ???
    somebody and he had trouble seeing and well I just liked seeing old 
    Ronnie toss strikes I guess.
    
    What about a MAD MAD MAD MAD WORLD?  Great race!
    
    
    
    

    
    
    	Don't remember if this one was mentioned, but _The Hustler_ was
    excellent.  Yea, I know, pool aint really a sport_sport, but "Fat's"
    and "Fast Eddie" were great, not to mention the master, Willie Mosconni
    in the background.
    
    	Another movie that I'd like to see released is the story of the 
    Pistol.  I've read where the movie is complete but they can't find 
    anyone to distribute it.  I guess it's mainly about Pete's days as
    a highschooler.  I remember them trying to find a kid that young with
    the ball handling skills that were necessary.  After a long search,
    the kid still had to be "schooled" by Pete himself....then Pete died
    tragically.
    
    							bill..g.
    

    Re:  flatulence
    
    "They Call Me Trinity" is pretty good too!

All Time Best Sports Movie:

Barbarella - This was made before Jane became a wierdo and turned
traitor. It is also the only movie of hers I've ever seen, since I
refuse to contribute to her livelihood. One time my wife came home with
one of Janie's exercise tapes. I calmly explained about Hanoi Jane (it's
best to always be calm about these things. If that doesn't work you can
always throw the refrigerator through a window... by way of punctuation)
and she returned it immediately.

Most sports movies gag me to death, however the one with Costner(?) and 
Susan Saradon (?)... where the chick takes the kid pitcher under her
wing (or something) was pretty good.

	`Hey! Are we gonna screw... or what?'

Mike JN

 That was "Bull Durham", Mike JN, and I agree.  I gave it FIVE stars in an
 earlier note.
    
 So many classic lines from that movie ...
    
 "Hey, Meat, I heard you couldn't hit water if you fell out of a f***in'
 boat."
    
 "He hit that like he knew I was gonna throw him the fastball."
    
 "Man, anything that flies that far ought to have a stewardness on it,
 don'tcha think ???"
    
 "The rose goes in the front, big guy."
 
 And then, of course, the wonderful "What I like" speech by Crash Davis
 that ended with "and I like long, slow, deep wet kisses that last three
 days."
    
 Great, great flick.  Robert Wuhl was hilarious as the fast-talking
 assistant coach.  Susan Sarandon was awesome.   And they even had Max
 Patkin in there, too.
    
 "The Show", "throw me that weakass s**t", garter belts, breathing through
 the eyelids, candlesticks make a nice gift, ...
 
 I have it as the front end of a four-hour tape with "Eight Men Out" on the
 back end.  A prized possession, to be sure.
    
 Bob Hunt

    Bob, it was the "I believe in" speech. I posted it in BASEBALL. 

Demmit, bubba! That don't mean ya cain't post it in here, too.

Mike JN

    "After 12 years in the minor leagues, I don't try out.  Besides, I
    don't believe in quantum physics when it comes to matters of the
    heart."
    
    "What do you believe in then?"
    
    "Well, I believe in the soul, the c*ck, the p*ssy, the small of a
    woman's back, the hanging curveball, high fiber, good scotch, that the
    novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent overrated crap.  I believe
    that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.  I believe that there ought to be a
    constitutional amendment outlawing astroturf and the designated hitter. 
    I believe in the sweet spot, soft core pornography, opening your
    presents Christmas morning instead of Christmas Eve and I believe in
    long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days.  Good night."
    
    John

Sounds reasonabobble to me.... `cept for the high fiber part.
Also, it's best to open Christmas presents Christmas Eve AND Christmas
morning.
Also, he forgot SPORTShrooms (tm).
And I `spect he meant bourbon instead of scotch.

`Side from that Ole Crash is rat arm!

Mike JN

    RE: Several back
    
    The Pete Maravich story is out.  It's being presented by Chick-fil-a of
    all things.  It is called "The Pistol, The Birth of a Legend, The
    childhood story of Pistol Pete Maravich."
    
    Rated G.
    
    They are planning a sequel or so they say on the news.
    
    	--dan'l

    
    	Now that we have the classic "Crash Davis believes in..", could
    	somebody post the "Church of baseball" opening that Susan Sarandon
    	did at the beginning of the movie?  I liked that just as much as
    	Crash's spiel........
    
    	The music in "Bull Durham" was great too.  I thought "60 minute
    	man" (I think that's the name of the song) was "really out there,
    	ya know?" :^)
    
    	Claybroon

    When I bought the Bull Durham soundtrack, I was very depressed to see
    that both "60 Minute Man" and the song by Edith Piaf weren't on there. 
    Those were the main reasons I wanted the tape in the first place (along
    with "Centerfield", which is on there).
    
    The monolog goes as follows (No I don't have it and the Costner speech
    memorized, I have them posted in my office):
    
    I believe in the church of baseball.

    I tried all of the major religions and most of the minor ones.
    I've worshipped Buddha, Allah, Vishnu, Siva, trees, mushrooms and
    Isadora Duncan. 

    I know things.

    For instance, there are 108 beads in the Catholic rosary and there
    are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus
    a chance. <sigh> But it just didn't work out between us. The Lord
    laid too much guilt on me.

    I prefer metaphysics to theology. You see, there's no guilt in
    baseball, and it's never boring, which makes it like sex. There's
    never been a ballplayer slept with me who didn't have the best
    year of his career. Making love is like hitting a baseball. You
    just gotta relax and concentrate. 

    Besides I'd never sleep with a player hitting under .250. Unless
    he had a lot of RBIs or was a great glove man up the middle.

    You see there's a certain amount of life wisdom I give these boys.
    I can expand their minds. Sometimes when I've got a ballplayer
    alone, I'll just read Emily Dickinson or Walt Whitman to him and
    the guys are so sweet, they'll always stay and listen. Course a
    guy will listen to anything if he thinks it's foreplay.

    I make them feel confident and they make me feel safe...and pretty.
    Course what I give them lasts a lifetime and what they give me
    lasts 142 games. Sometimes it seems like a bad trade, but bad
    trade's a part of baseball. I mean who can forget Frank Robinson
    for Milt Pappas, for god's sake? 

    It's a long season, and you gotta trust it. I've tried em all, I
    really have, and the only church that truly feeds the soul, day
    in, day out, is the church of baseball.

                                     Annie Savoy
                                     "Bull Durham"

    
    

That's Great!
I had forgotten that. I'll have to see that again.
I might have to extract that to an .sdml file and doc it up so it'll
print pretty.

Mike JN
    

    Well, so much for discussing Sports movies....

I'll second the Jericho Mile with Peter Straus.

Anyone ever see "Number One" starring Charlton Heston as an NFL 
QB?

No?  Don't bother, talk about lame.

daryll

�Anyone ever see "Number One" starring Charlton Heston as an NFL 
�QB?


Wiat, lemme guess.  He's trying to lead the team off the field 
through a sea of fans.  Yards behind, Edward G. Robinson plays 
a battered nose guard, who says:

		"Where your Moses, now, see, where's your Moses now!"

    Best Hoop Movie:  Go Man Go
    
    Best Footaball Movie:  Longest Yard
    
    Best Track Movie:  Either the Mariel Hemingway move ;-)  or the Billy
    MIlls Story
    
    Best Baseball Movie:  The Jimmy Piersall Story
    
    Best Racing Movie:  Crash 
    
    Best Skiing Movie:  Vivian KNows Vail
    
    Best swimming Movie::  Esther Williams does it best
    
    Best Tractor Pull Movie:  The Fat Man Strikes Out
    
    Best Boxing MOvie:  Requiem for a Heaveyweight
    
    Best Hunting Movie:  Bambi
    
    Bested Wrestling Movie:  ALl the Marbles
    
    Bested Roller Derby Movied:  KC Bomber
    
    Best Fishing Movie: Fantastic Voyage
    
    Best Hockey Movie:  SlapShot
    
    Best Gymnastics Movie:  Debbie Does Dallas
    
    Best Cheerleading Movie:  The Cheerleaders
    
    Best Chess Movie;  Russ Meyer's flicks...
    
    JD ;-)

    
    You like Bambi too, eh JD?
    
    But I always cry when his mother gets shot in the meadow.  "Damn... the
    hunter shoulda had that trophy buck! (sob)  What an awful shame."
    
    Dickstah
    

    DIcstah,
    
    Re: P_NAME - didn't know Beantown starting selling advance tickets to
    the Columbus Day Parade.
    
    JD

    
    No, no, JD.  The Red Sox.  THE RED SOX!!
    
    Columbus' sailing is the recent past, compared to the last time the Sox
    won the series.
    
    Dickstah
    

    Good boxing flick - James Earl Jones playing Jack Johnson in 'The Great
    White Hope'....i also liked 'All the Right Moves' pretty good football
    flick, along with the Nick Nolte football movie - what was that? North
    Dallas Forty?
    
    "White Lighting' with Richard Pyror playing Wendall Scott - race car
    movie.
    
    The Mash movie had some funny sports stuff also....
    
    ra

�    The Mash movie had some funny sports stuff also....
 
 When Hot Lips led the cheers on the sidelines ...
 
 	"69 is divine.  69 is divine.  69 is divine."
 
 Bob Hunt

    re Mash. 
    
    Or when they drugged the other team's ringer and when the third quarter
    ended he took off like he was runn'in the 100. Too funny. 8^)

    The Richard Pryor movie was Greased Lightning...

    The BEST baseball movie ever made was a 1985 HBO movie called "Long
    Gone", adapted from the excellent novel by Paul Hemphill of the same
    name.  Long Gone really captures the feel for minor league baseball in
    the 1950s.  It is funny, sexy, and the baseball scenes are authentic.
    
    It stars William Petersen, the voluptuous Virginia Madsen, Dermot
    Mulrooney as the rookie, and Henry Gibson and Teller (of Penn and
    Teller) as the father-son owners. 
    
    FWIW, these are my Top Ten Sports Movies:
    
    1) Long Gone
    2) Eight Men Out
    3) Field of Dreams
    4) Hoosiers
    5) Bingo Long Travelling All-Stars and Motor Kings
    6) Bull Durham
    7) The Natural
    8) Breaking Away
    9) North Dallas Forty
    10 tie) Slap Shot; Major League
    
    NAZZ

    I hope it was better than the classic HBO throwin - Blue Skies Again
    with Harry Hamlin...
    
    

>    I hope it was better than the classic HBO throwin - Blue Skies Again
>    with Harry Hamlin...

	Long Gone was excellent. The guy in Knots Landing(The MCKenzie's
neighbor-ex-cop-witness relo, etc.) played a late-season call-up. Virginia
Madsen went on to do a couple more HBO only movies, one with Treat Williams
was great.

	I think Long Gone exemplified life in the minors pretty well.

	Jim M

    Don't think anyone has mentioned "Caddyshack" yet, funny golf flick...
    
    
    py

     I liked Stealing Home, but just because of Jodi Foster...
    
    JD

    
    >     I liked Stealing Home, but just because of Jodi Foster...
    
    Oohhh...I'd *kill* for Jodi Foster!
    
    -John Hinckley
    

    
    Little Jodi, the tomboy sure has BLOSSOMED into quite a woman.
    
    Where can I get her #??
    
    
    
    AL

re Caddyshack:

	Fifty bucks says the Smales kid picks his nose....


re Jody:

	Call the Yale Alumni office. 

re Dickstah:

	You know that's pretty sick, don't ya?  Sure, I knew ya did 8^)

>    Little Jodi, the tomboy sure has BLOSSOMED into quite a woman.
>    Where can I get her??
    
    same place everyone else got her.

    
    >same place everyone else got her.
    
    Was that the "Hotel New Hampsire"?
    
    
    
    BTW, the best road rally movie: "It's a mad, mad, mad, mad world!"
    
    
    Al

    re Greased Lighting
    
    It was based on the life of black stockcar pioneer Wendell Scott. I
    read in the Sporting News a month ago that Scott passed away in
    Danville, VA. at the age of 68 (?).
    
    RIP, Wendell.

    Anyone know when the movie about Babe Ruth starring John Goodman is
    scheduled to be released?
    
    
    py

    Gene Shallet (sp?) panned the "The Babe" this morning on the Today
    Show.  He said the only people who might enjoy it would be those who
    didn't know much about baseball or about Babe Ruth.  
    
    Hardly any of the bambino's bad traits are portrayed as he really
    was...a hard-drinking womanizer.  Then Gene said that there are glaring
    errors in the movie when it comes to baseball itself, the most obvious
    being at the end where Ruth is playing his final game in Pittsburgh and
    hits three home runs; he is pinch run for after the first two homers. 
    First of all, you don't pinch run for home runs (do you?) and second,
    if you are pinch run for you don't re-enter the game.  Gene even posted
    the box score to show that there were no pinch runners in the game.
    
    	--dan'l

    Yeah, but is John Goodman a better Babe than Wlliam Bendix?
    
    Rich
    

    That's what I hate about hollywood.... Even a marginal baseball fan
    would know these things, and why tinker with the real story when there
    are even people alive today who have seen Babe play. I mean, it ain't
    exactly some obscure interpretation of history that can be debated.
    
    Too bad, since John Goodman might have been a good "Babe" -- with a
    good script.
    
    Tom  

 So what if Gene Shalit didn't like "The Babe".  He didn't like "Bill and
 Ted's Excellent Adventure" either and that was merely the greatest movie
 ever made.
 
 Bob Hunt

Bill and Ted? Greatest movie ever made? Sure I liked it and all but I can
imagine a conversation with one of the microHunts, wherein Daddy Bob
tries to explain this opinion.

But I agree with the 'who cares' about Shalit. And while we're at it,
it's a freakin movie. Who cares if'n it's not *THE TRUTH*.

TTom

    Bull Durham was a great movie because the Director had played minor
    league ball, and knew what was right and what wasn't.  The Natural was
    a great movie because they hired a consultant from MLB (Gene Kirby, who
    used to be Director of Broadcasting for the Sox) who helped them get
    the little details right.  Sounds like the maker of The Babe should
    have done the same thing.  On the other hand, I'll enjoy watching it
    for the story line without being anal-retentive about the details.
    
    John

� Bill and Ted? Greatest movie ever made? Sure I liked it and all but I can
� imagine a conversation with one of the microHunts, wherein Daddy Bob
� tries to explain this opinion.
 
 No explanation needed.  The MicroHUNTs are big fans of The Two Great Ones. 
 [You oughta see 'em do some mean Wyld Stallyns 'air guitar' riffs.]  No
 doubt influenced by their slightly off-kilter paterfamilias.
 
 Bob Hunt
 
 P.S.  One of our HuntPC dogs is named "Rufus" after you-know-who.

 � Bull Durham was a great movie because the Director had played minor league
 � ball, and knew what was right and what wasn't.
 
 He's the same one who directed the current "White Men Can't Jump".  A big
 playground hoops nut and that's helped his authenticity in this flick too.
 
 Ron something.  Shelton or Burton ???
 
 Bob Hunt

    
    Ron Shelton, ex-Oriole farmhand who while with the Rochester Red Wings
    saw a young phenom named Bobby Grich come up through the ranks and
    wisely decided to call it quits...
    
    glenn
    

    Ron Shelton.  Ron Burton is a former Patriots player.
    
    John

Bob, one thing about growing up with Bill & Ted is it will pretty much
disqualify them from going to Chapel Hill. No sense of humor there, fer
sure.

TTom

    I guess what I was getting at is that it is not hard to get the minor
    details right. If you are going to do a semi-factual movie about a real
    life person, you should at least *try*. Not having seen the movie, I
    dunno if there was a significant plot-related reason for the
    pinch-runner, so why bother writing that into the script. It's just
    plain sloppy and detracts from the movie.
    
    Tom 

>    Not having seen the movie, I
>    dunno if there was a significant plot-related reason for the
>    pinch-runner, so why bother writing that into the script. 
    
    My hunch is that it's used as complete melodrama for the movie's end. 
    There's poor Babe, the greatest player of all time, in his
    career-ending game, almost unable to walk to the batters box.  Yet he
    is able to muster enough strength to knock three balls out of massive
    Forbes Field.
    
    Another nitpicky thing Shalit mentioned was that Goodman is right
    handed.  Ruth was left handed.  Goodman's swing as a left hander is so
    awkward, any baseball fan is going to get distracted by the clumsiness
    of the swing.
    
    The movie is rated PG so it will probably be on HBO 8 billion times
    next year, three times a day on the weekends.  
    
    	--dan'l

    You wanna talk about a movie that's not real? Check out Necessary
    Roughness. NO way can kathy Ireland take a shower in the men's football
    locker room and no one peeps. Big 'ol Samoan or not. 

    
    	The movie 'Pistol' will be aired on the CBN network on May 2nd.
    Good movie about Maravich, but it only covers one year during his
    youth.  Still a good movie for the family though.
    
    
    

    They showed "Pistol: The Pete Maravich Story" on my flight back from
    Switzerland in November.  I couldn't stand it.  Was this the way things
    really were for young Pete?  Was he the quiticential good-guy, work-
    ethic-wins-over-evil-bully in real life or was that a bunch of social
    melodrama to make a movie?
    
    And for some reason, it had a PG rating.  It was the 'G'est of G movies
    I have ever seen.
    
    	--dan'l

    
    	According to Pete, who helped supervise the movie, that's the way
    it was.  The movie is a blowup of a couple of chapters from his book
    _Heir to a Dream_ in which he paints an uphill battle for exceptance
    all his life.  
    
    	Don't forget that in the movie, I believe Pete is only in the 8th 
    grade but ends up starting for his High School team.  So, I could see
    were he would have some trouble with the older guys.
    
    	I guess, it all comes down to if you're a Maravich fan.  I grew up
    and played ball about the same time as Pete.  Since he was from around
    Pittsburgh, he used to have a camp at California, Pa. which is only
    about 30 minutes from my hometown.  My Jr. Hi. coach was good friends
    with Pete's father Press and sent his kid to Pete's camp.  All I can
    remember are the stories this kid had about Pete's camp where Pete
    would put on 'showtime' for the campers that left their mouths hanging
    open.  
    
    	The guys I all hung around with adored Pete and we all wanted to
    be 'just like Pete'.  So, I guess if you're a fan, you might be more
    inclined to like the movie.
    
    
    								bill..g.
    

Well, since I was in Couch Potato (no "e") mode this weekend, I hit the
video store and rented some videos.

I finally saw "Eight Men Out".


It was interesting that this movie focused on Buck Weaver, and not Joe
Jackson, which most of them usually try to do I guess.  It was also interesting
seeing all the stars in this movie too.


I enjoyed the movie very much, although I have no idea how historically
accurate it was.  I came away thinking how very sad the whole situation
is, and how, just like in any other group, a couple of unscrupulous
people can drag a whole bunch down.


One blooper I saw was the singing of the "Star Spangled Banner".  If I'm
not mistaken, this custom didn't start until World War II time period.


Things that were accurate however, were the players leaving their gloves
on the field when they came to bat, and the uniforms and old style gloves
were cool....


'Saw

    re .109:
    
    > It was interesting that this movie focused on Buck Weaver, and not Joe
    > Jackson
    
    Weaver hit over .300 (.314 I think) in the 1919 World Series.  I think
    as much of an injustice (if not more) was done to him than to Jackson.
    
    
    py

>    
>    Weaver hit over .300 (.314 I think) in the 1919 World Series.  I think
>    as much of an injustice (if not more) was done to him than to Jackson.
    

I cannot imagine living my life without the thing I love best.  I really
cannot.   It must have been a heavy burden to bear.


'Saw

I'm dustin' off the cobwebs, but as I recall, "Eight Men Out" sold itself on 
being historically accurate.  The thing that I forgot until I saw the movie was 
that the "Black Sox" were acquitted in court, and were nonethless banned from
baseball by Judge Landis.

=Bob=

    The thing that got me about Eight Men Out was how the owners ruled the
    game in those days, well, actually until the '60s. At that time
    baseball was influenced by gamblers, and players were considered
    rogues. Christy Mathewson was considered an ambassador for the game
    because he was well-mannered, educated, articulate, a gentleman and a 
    great pitcher to boot. Compare him with Ty Cobb, who went into the stands 
    to beat up a heckler with no arms... 
    
    Judge Landis was a stooge, hand-picked by the owners to keep the status
    quo. They were more concerned with the image of baseball than the game
    itself. Eddie Cicotte won 29 games, and would earn a bonus if he won 30. 
    His manager sat him for the last 2 weeks, just so he wouldn't win #30. The
    players were totally wrong in throwing the series, but considering
    everything, I can undertstand how they felt used by baseball's power
    elite.
    
    Tom   

    If I recall Weaver was not in on the fix, but was banned for knowing
    about it and not reporting it.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

>    If I recall Weaver was not in on the fix, but was banned for knowing
>    about it and not reporting it.
    

That's a weak reason to ban for life though.    

I could see the logic behind a year's suspension, but to equate him to the
folks who did the deed......  I dunno, I just don't see it.....


'Saw

>                     -< Neither do I ... Weaver got hosed >-


It would be like a situation where your boss is stealing from the company
and you know about it.  Your boss has made all the innuedos to you
about you being a "stand up guy"  (ie keep your mouth shut).

What do you do?


Yeah, afterwards, you could be culpable, but NOT as culpable as he was.


I agree Doc, Weaver got hosed.


'Saw

    

 'Saw,
 
 Nexted thing you want to be doing is picking up a copy of Eliott Asinof's
 book "Eight Men Out" which, of course, was the basis for the excellent
 flick.
 
 As for historical accuracy, the movie sorta kinda simplified the tangle of
 money.   Asinof goes into much more detail about what sorts of payments
 were made and by whom to whom and when and where.  It was awfully tangled. 
 Abe Atell was running part of the scam and so was Sport Sullivan and so
 was Rothstein and some guy named Evans from St Louis and so on ...
 
 There's no question that Buck Weaver got the shaft.   Jackson was an HOF
 shoo-in but Weaver and Cicotte could have made it as well with several
 more serious seasons.
 
 Both the book and the movie spare *no* effort in slamming Charlie
 Comiskey.  A pompous tightwad with a control fetish.
 
 My only teeny-tiny complaint with the flick was the choice of D.B. Sweeney
 for the role of Shoeless Joe.   Jackson was in his mid-30's when the '19
 Series was played and he had that hard-drinkin', tobacky-chawin' Southern
 redneck look to him.   Sweeney's got a baby face deluxe.   The actor who
 played Chick Gandil (same guy who was in 'Days of Thunder' with Cruise)
 would have looked like a better Jackson.
 
 Bob Hunt
 
 P.S.   Feels good to be back in the US of A.

    re: Bob Hunt, back in the US of A
    
    Welcome back, Bob!  Bet that 1st 'Mericain haimburger's gonna taste
    mighty good!  :-)
    
    Hawk
    

    Yea, How was the Singapore Slings? 
    And what time is it, Bob?  Ya must be bushed.
    
    Back in time to welcome Herschel into the Iggles fold.
    
    MikeL
    

Welcome back, my friend!   Glad to see Shalot::Hunt instead doodah::guest.


> Nexted thing you want to be doing is picking up a copy of Eliott Asinof's
> book "Eight Men Out" which, of course, was the basis for the excellent
> flick.

Good point.
 
> There's no question that Buck Weaver got the shaft.   Jackson was an HOF
> shoo-in but Weaver and Cicotte could have made it as well with several
> more serious seasons.

Cicotte actually played for the Red Sox early in his career, and had
a season with the Indians as well.

 
> Both the book and the movie spare *no* effort in slamming Charlie
> Comiskey.  A pompous tightwad with a control fetish.

I agree.

 
> My only teeny-tiny complaint with the flick was the choice of D.B. Sweeney
> for the role of Shoeless Joe.   Jackson was in his mid-30's when the '19
> Series was played and he had that hard-drinkin', tobacky-chawin' Southern
> redneck look to him.   Sweeney's got a baby face deluxe.   The actor who
> played Chick Gandil (same guy who was in 'Days of Thunder' with Cruise)
> would have looked like a better Jackson.
 
Yes, I thought the same thing.  When I looked up some of these players,
most lived into the 70s.  Jackson died in 1955 and is buried in Greenville,
SC.   Cicotte died in the 60s I believe.

I think that the stress of this must've gotten to Weaver, since he did
in 1956, at the age of 66, but it could have been anything else.

Yeah, the guy who played Gandil was pretty cool.   In fact, there
were a lot of stars in that movie that I've seen before.  Even the
"college boy" was in My Blue Heaven.

Sweeney was recently in that hokey figure skating movie, but I liked
him in Memphis Belle....


> P.S.   Feels good to be back in the US of A.

Amen.




'Saw

    Actually the banned players played the 1920 season as well. 

 That's true.  The "Black Sox" played the entire 1920 season and continued
 to throw games.   They kept the pennant race with the surprising Indians
  close all year long ... never too far in front, never too far back.  The
 gamblers made a pile on the Sox that year.  The players were trapped and
 they ultimately layed down and coughed up the pennant to the Tribe who
 beat the Brooklyn Robins in the Series afterwards.
 
 The '20 season is every bit as tainted as the '19 Series.   1920 was also
 the year Carl Mays killed Ray Chapman with a beanball.   A really horrid
 year.
 
 Babe Ruth was about to save the game.
 
 Bob Hunt

> That's true.  The "Black Sox" played the entire 1920 season and continued
> to throw games.   They kept the pennant race with the surprising Indians
>  close all year long ... never too far in front, never too far back.  The
> gamblers made a pile on the Sox that year.  The players were trapped and
> they ultimately layed down and coughed up the pennant to the Tribe who
> beat the Brooklyn Robins in the Series afterwards.


My Encyclopedia of Baseball says that the players were suspended with
three games remaining in the 1920 season, and that helped cost
Chicago the pennant.


> the year Carl Mays killed Ray Chapman with a beanball.   A really horrid
> year.


What year was it that the put the new baseball into play (as alluded to
in the movie) and that they banned the spitter and loading up the ball?

'Saw

    Bob, I understand that Mays wasn't throwing a beanball, Champman was a
    notorious plate-crowder, and a tight pitch got away from Chapman.
    
    I knew that the Sox were throwing games in 1920, but did it really cost
    them the pennant ? And wasn't some of the players under the death
    penality by gamblers ?

 Frank,
 
 I think 1920 was the last year for the old "deadball".   Babe Ruth hit 59
 dingers for the Yanks the very first year of the lively ball.  That might
 have been in '21, I can't recall without a stat book.
 
 Two important developments came out of the Mays-Chapman tragedy ... One
 was the famous banishment of the spitter, the shiner, the scuffball and
 other trick pitches and the other was a more subtle change ... umpires
 began to replace dinged-up and worn-out baseballs a *lot* quicker.   
 
 Back then, they would use the same ball inning after inning after inning. 
 After a while, it got all banged up and dirty and ragged and there was
 some speculation that Chapman couldn't see the pitch that killed him for
 that very reason.   Now the umps toss a ball if it's got the slightest
 nick.   Makes sense.
 
 Doc,
 
 Asinof's book makes the point that the Black Sox threw the entire 1920
 season.  The gamblers had them by the short ones and squeezed them with
 constant death threats and promises to expose them if they didn't
 cooperate.   
 
 Hugh Fullerton, a Chicago baseball writer, and others were calling for an
 investigation into the '19 Series all throughout the 1920 season and a
 grand jury was finally formed in the later part of the season and the
 eight players were indeed suspended with just a few games left.  
 
 Cleveland held on to win the pennant and took the Robins in a Series made
 famous, of course, by Bill Wambsganss' unassisted triple play.
 
 The trial took place between the '20 and '21 seasons and Landis suspended
 them almost immediately after they were acquitted.   The trial was rigged
 as well ... Three grand jury confessions mysteriously "disappeared" (Both
 Rothstein's *and* Comiskey's lawyers conspired to make that happen) and
 all eight were freed on lack of evidence.   Landis suspended them the next
 day.
 
 The White Sox next saw the Series 40 years later in 1959.   Their last
 Series win was 1917.  They were a true juggernaut back then and they
 quickly broke down after the eight were booted.   Comiskey's last years
 were miserable.
 
 Bob Hunt

    As far as the accuracy of the movie goes, there was a guy (a reporter?)
    who kept on saying that something was fishy. Now there has been enough
    wierd stuff happen in baseball so that some good players having a poor
    series, etc. shouldn't be TOO unusual.   
    
    What was it that caused them to investigate it? Was it someone who
    opened his mouth?
    
    Tom

�    As far as the accuracy of the movie goes, there was a guy (a reporter?)
�    who kept on saying that something was fishy. 
 
 That was Hugh Fullerton.   He and Ring Lardner worked closely together at
 that time.
    
�    What was it that caused them to investigate it? Was it someone who
�    opened his mouth?
 
 All kinds of things ... The Sox were *heavy* favorites and the odds
 leading up to the Series reflected that.   Then, at the last minute,
 *huge* sums of money started going down on the Reds and the odds came back
 to about even money on both teams.
 
 It probably wasn't a case of any one person talking ... just a general but
 intense "Have you heard?" atmosphere.   Gambling was much more "personal"
 back then.   You didn't have public "Vegas" odds ... instead you had lots
 of personal so-and-so gave you-know-who 6-to-5 odds on the Reds and ...
 ooh, that's better than what's-his-name gave me and so on ...
 
 With an atmosphere like that, secrets are *real* hard to keep.   There had
 to have been a lot of "I can't believe they'd do *that* !!!" disbelief
 among those who lost their bets.
 
 Bob Hunt

Fullerton was played by Studs Terkel in the movie.  What a great job
of casting that was.

And they way he and his buddy sportswriter kept separate scorecards... I
liked that....


'Saw

    re: 1920 series
    
    That series also had the first Grand Slam hit in a WS game, and the
    first HR hit by a pitcher in a WS game.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    1) Didn't the pitcher hit the Grand Slam ?
    
    re The 'Black Sox' :
    
    Interesting choice, that Judge Landis. he was a judge that constantly
    got his most important decisions overturned in court. From what I
    remember, the Supreme Court basically called him a cowboy, one who went
    overboard on crime and punishment, and was called out for his arbitrary
    judgements. 
    
    When the owners gave him unlimted power, he must have thought he had
    died and gone to heaven.
    
    In retrospect, it was probably best that the players got banned. I
    wonder how the fixers could have ever played afterwards with the
    potential of death threats no matter what ...
    
    But it still doesn't excuse the shaft that Weaver and (to a lesser
    extent) Jackson got.
    
    And I can't say I'd shed many tears for Comminsky ....
    
    Doc

    Also had a_unassisted triple play...1st & 2nd, no one out, runners both
    going. Line drive to the 2b Bill Wambsganass, he catches it, tags the
    runner coming from 1st and steps on 2b before the other runner could get 
    back.

� Fullerton was played by Studs Terkel in the movie.  What a great job
� of casting that was.
 
 And John Sayles, who directed "Eight Men Out", played Ring Lardner. 
 Looked just like him, too.  Even down to the natty bow tie and the straw
 hat.
 
 Bob Hunt

> And John Sayles, who directed "Eight Men Out", played Ring Lardner. 
> Looked just like him, too.  Even down to the natty bow tie and the straw
> hat.
 
Ring Lardner...  He didn't just write sports did he?  He also wrote
short stories or novels, later in life, perhaps?  The name sounds more
familiar than in a SPORTS sense to me.....

'Saw

    Ring Lardner wrote lots of novels and short stories and not just on
    sports either.
    
    John

>    Ring Lardner wrote lots of novels and short stories and not just on
>    sports either.
    
Thanks John.  I thought I had recognized the name from one of my
high school english classes.  WE read lots and lots of short stories!


I have a feeling that was a trend in those days too.  Wasn't Dashiell
Hammett (author of "The Maltese Falcon") some kind of a reporter to
start with?


At any rate, I'm going to look for the book "Eight Men Out" also....


'Saw

� I have a feeling that was a trend in those days too.  Wasn't Dashiell
� Hammett (author of "The Maltese Falcon") some kind of a reporter to
� start with?

 I think Damon Runyon is the reporter-author you're thinking of.  I believe
 he covered the '19 Series as well.

� At any rate, I'm going to look for the book "Eight Men Out" also....
 
 Shouldn't be hard to find.  I found mine at a chain bookstore in a mall. 
 Might've been Waldenbooks.   
 
 You'll like it a lot.   Stephen Jay Gould wrote the foreword and I started
 reading some of *his* essays on natural history after I'd finished "Eight
 Men Out".   Gould's post-scandal theory that Babe Ruth saved the game with
 the owners' collective consent is especially compelling.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Bob .. that part about Babe Ruth saving the game with the owner's
    'collective assent'... could you elaborate ?

 Doc,
 
 Gould's essay on Ruth's salvation certainly goes a lot deeper than I can
 here but the major points were ...
 
 1) From the earliest beginnings of organized baseball in the mid-19th
 century, owners had always been concerned with the competitive balance
 between pitching and hitting.   
 
 It was felt that a "global" batting average of around .260 was the optimum
 balance point between too little offense and too much.   Too little
 offense meant too many 1-0 and 2-1 games which would lead to bored fans
 and dwindling attendance.   Too much offense would mean too many 8-7 or
 10-9 games and the same result.   .260 would mean a good supply of both
 types of games which would keep fan interest growing.
 
 So the owners juggled and tinkered with the rules all throughout the
 pre-modern era looking for that balance.   Strike zones varied, ball and
 strike counts varied, pitching distances lengthened, and so on all in an
 attempt to make sure that neither the hitters *nor* the pitchers got too
 far ahead of the other.
 
 2) The scandal hit.  The worst possible blow to baseball (or any sport) is
 lack of integrity.  Forget whether a foul ball counts as a strike or not. 
 If the public smells a rotten game, they'll go elsewhere.
 
 3) Ruth gets traded to the Yankees ... and hits the astonishing total of
 59 dingers in his first year in the Bronx.   The previous high was like 29
 or something ... Ruth's 59 dingers in '20 (or '21) would be something like
 Marquis Grissom stealing 275 bases to break Henderson's mark or Roger
 Clemens whiffing 700 batters to break Nolan Ryan's record or Cecil Fielder
 hitting 120 home runs or whatever ...
 
 [Aside: Gretzky's first 200-point season was the same sort of impact.]
 
 4) So what do the owners do ???  Here you've got a guy who just made the
 previous 70+ years of baseball look silly but you've also got a scandal
 that could shut you down for keeps.
 
 5) They let Ruth rock-n-roll.  No other conclusion fits.  The Twenties
 were a Roman orgy of baseball offense.  Rogers Hornsby hit .424 one year,
 Ruth continued to crush dingers (with his apex coming during 1927, of
 course, when he hit his famous 60 taters), Lou Gehrig started knocking in
 around 150 RBI's a season and so on.
 
 1930 was the high point.  The *entire* National League hit over .300.  Say
 that again slowly.  The entire league got a hit more than 3 times out of
 10.   The famous Chuck Klein trivia question comes from 1930 ... Klein hit
 .386, had 250 hits, 40 dingers and 170 RBI's and didn't lead the league in
 any one of those four categories.   If he did that now, he'd be on a
 Wheaties box for life.   But back then, he didn't even have front row
 seats.
 
 Gould's essay tried to say that the owners feared a fatal fan loss and
 thus did *not* take steps to keep the offensive balance in line.   Fans
 got caught up in all the high-scoring fireworks (the economy was rolling
 then, too) and attendance rose ... and the game was saved.   And Ruth was
 the largest savior of them all.   He was the marquee name and he put the
 most butts in the seats by far.
 
 Sometime in the early-mid '30's, the balance started to swing back towards
 a more balanced game.  The famous Gas House Gang in St Louis with their
 outstanding pitching, incredible defense, and speed game on the basepaths
 brought "little ball" back into favor.   Ruth retired, Gehrig got sick,
 and DiMaggio and Teddy Ballgame were waiting to step in and start a new
 era.
 
 I love baseball history.  Endless source of fascination.
 
 Bob Hunt

    re: .139 - fascination with history of baseball
    
    It is that kind of history that helps make baseball a sport that
    basketball, football, hockey can't come close to.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    I marvel every time i read about Ruth.
    
    A GREAT pitcher with the Bosox. A GREAT hitter with the Yanks. Amazing
    
    

    Re Chuck Klein
    
    The thing about him was that he put up his numbers in the Baker Bowl,
    which had a RF fence of +- 310 feet and a high Fenway-like wall. He
    always thought he never got the respect that other hittes got, even
    though his road numbers were similar.
    
    Part of the "balance" during the 'teens had to do with Park Effects.
    Most of the "new" parks of that era were built between 1909 and 1915.
    For the most part, OF fences were very far away, more condusive to
    triples than HRs. Braves Field was something like 400 ft down the lines
    and over 500 to straightaway CF. In the 1920s the game became more
    popular and owners increased seating capacities. In Ebbets Field, which
    was a pitchers' park, stands were built in LF to bring the foul line 
    distance from =/- 400 ft to about 340, and CF was brought in from +/-
    450 to about 400.
    
    A lot of this info comes from a book "The Lost Ballparks" which
    features a lot of photos of different old parks in various stages.
    Great book if you like that sort of thing.
    
    Tom

    
    Don't forget, though, that Ruth's home run explosion was not
    accompanied by a proportional offensive explosion by the rest of the 
    league.  Offense picked up noticeably after 1920 but run-scoring was 
    still at or below that of today's game until the 1930s, when it went
    stratospheric (as attendance during the Depression went the otherr way).  
    Ruth himself, however, did go stratospheric in the 1920s.  As late as 
    1927 Ruth alone was still out-homering EVERY OTHER SINGLE TEAM IN THE 
    LEAGUE.
    
    I agree that the powers that be in baseball made the necessary 
    adjustments to keep the game interesting, but they did not create 
    Babe Ruth.  They may have fed him and nourished him once he hit the 
    scene, but his arrival was coincidental to the timing of the Black 
    Sox scandal.  Sometimes things just happen, sometimes to everyone's 
    betterment, and Base Ruth was one such "miracle".
    
    glenn
    
    

    re .139
    
    Thanks Bob, I'll have to check that out. 
    
    Don't forget that Klein played at the Baker Bowl too - made Fenway Park
    look like the Grand Canyon ...

    And cricket is baseball on Valium.  Or is it quaaludes?
    
    Ninj
    

  �  I agree that the powers that be in baseball made the necessary 
  �  adjustments to keep the game interesting, but they did not create 
  �  Babe Ruth.  They may have fed him and nourished him once he hit the 
  �  scene, but his arrival was coincidental to the timing of the Black 
  �  Sox scandal.  Sometimes things just happen, sometimes to everyone's 
  �  betterment, and Base Ruth was one such "miracle".

Most "miracle saviors" are indeed products of good timing and amazing 
coincidence.  Gould did not say that the owners "created" Babe Ruth; simply 
that his exploits and larger-than-life profile sparked fan interest when 
it was so desperately needed and the owners realized the incredibly obvious 
value he provided and "allowed" him to rule the game for close to 15 years.

They simply hung on for the ride ... which went against every ownership 
impulse they'd ever had.  And there's no doubt that they "may have fed and 
nourished him" ... They built Yankee Stadium, arguably the most famous sports 
venue in the world, for him.

Babe Ruth was and always will be the greatest overall impact player in major 
league baseball history.   Jackie Robinson comes in a close second.

Bob Hunt

Over the weekend I had a chance to see "A League of Their Own".

This movie was great.  I haven't laughed so hard in a long time.  And
the baseball was good too.  (Those actresses must've worked very hard
to get that good).

John Lovitz, as the scout, stole the early part of the movie.  Absolutely
hysterical.

Tom Hanks played his part really well too.

Geena Davis, Lori Petty, Rosie O'Donnell and Madonna all were fantastic too.


This movie, IMO, is worth the money spent to see it.


'Saw

       Heard somebody say lasted week: "Geena Davis makes Madonna look like
    a sack a doorknobs!"
                                       Denny

While I'm not a big Madonna fan, she was quite good in the movie.  
Geena Davis did a great job too.   They both looked good!


It was one of the few movies I've seen in the past couple of years that
I would actually go to see a second time in the theatre, instead of 
waiting for it to come out on PPV.....


'Saw

While not strictly a sport movie, HBO is going to broadcast

	"When It Was a Game II"

this evening at 10pm.  

(Guess I'm going to have to tape Northern Exposure....)


'Saw

    Geena's li'l sister was better looking than either of 'em.
    
    Mark.

    Anyone know if "The Babe" is out on videocasette yet?
    
    
    py

    
    >    Anyone know if "The Babe" is out on videocasette yet?
    
    Check out the section in the back of your local video store.  Or
    maybe we aren't thinking of the same movie....
    
    Dickstah
    

    re: .152
    
    Yup it is out on video. I assume you know enough to ignore Dickstah 
    when he gets into one of his ornery moods :-)
    
    fwiw I saw it on a plane (movie PY is talking about) and it was no
    great shakes.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    re Dickstah, tooo funny...
    
    Yeah, I heard that the movie was mediocre at best, just wanted to watch
    it to see how much screen time the "Chiefs of Staff" (1988 International 
    Barbershop Quartet Champions) got...
    
    
    py (card carrying member of the S.P.E.B.S.Q.S.A.)

    
    PY I got the last couple there
    
    Barbershop Quartet Sociate of America
    
    Now  what does S.P.E at the beginning stand for??
    
    The Crazy Met
    

Society for the Preservation and Encouragment of Barbershop Quartet
Singing In America.....


Pronounced Speb-skwa, they even have a song about it.....



'Saw, who's favorite barbershop tune is "Sincere" from the Music Man.....

    'Saw has it, except that for some reason they make two words out of
    Barbershop (Barber Shop) in the title.
    
    Reason for the long-winded name?   THe society was founded in the
    1930s, at a time when FDR was creating a lot of New Deal organizations
    with long winded names.  Society founder O.C. Cash decided to go the
    pres one better....
    
    
    py

I thought it was the society to propose the extinction of barber shops, quiche
and singing the anthem (by goofs like micheal bolton).


Metz the long haired one whose wife has decided he needs a hair cut..

>Metz the long haired one whose wife has decided he needs a hair cut..

	Aw come on Metz.  Splurge a little and get 'em all cut.

BADOOM!

Claybroon

	How can there be, any sin in sincere?
	Where is the good in goodbye.
	Your apprehensions confuse me dear,
	puzzle and mystify.... Tell me
	what can be fair in farewell dear,
	While one single star shines above?
	How can there be any sin in sincere?
	Aren't we sincerely in love (oh we're in love......)


				--  Meredith Willson (with a little
				    help from the Buffalo Bills)