Conference 7.286::sports_91

    Well the BUllS havent been playing up to my standards yet I feel they
    have blown about 4 shouldhavebeen wins.  AFter there 111-102 win over
    NJ last night it puts them at 22-10 and have already lost 3 at home.
    One of there big games of the month is tonight at Philadelphia, the
    only good thing is that philly has not been playing all that great the
    last few games so maybe we can still one on the road from them, if its
    a close game going into the 4rth then Bulls will take it in the stretch
    but I have a bad feeling with the way MJ's teamates have been shooting
    consistently under 40% (although last night they were around 44%)....
    MJ is 3rd in the league with 30.5 pts per game, king's at 30.577 (30.6)
    and barkley's at 30.7, so 2 of the top scores will have it out tonight
    ID be happy if they help MJ under 20 as long as the team could hit
    around 60%+......GO BUlls..
    
    							M.Air.Brooks

Got the neatest poster from my brother the other day.

He knows I'm a big Star Trek fans, so he give me this poster and
the way it's rolled all you can see is "Space -- The Final Frontier".

Well, I unrolled it, and it's this wicked cool picture of Jordan
going in for a reverse layup, but instead of having a basketball in
his hand, he's got the moon...

Too cool,
'Saw

    Rumor Control: Hopson for Walter Davis.  Nuggets want more...
    
    Dan

    Well the Bulls pulled off a good win last night at Philidelphia..107-99
    MJ was spectacular as usally (just watch the highlights)...I miss my
    chicago channel (my cable company dropped it)....And MJ scored 40 pts
    this combined with barkley only scoring 29 has put MJ in the leading
    scorer position for I think the 1st time this season with 30.8, both
    barkley and king are at 30.6 !!!!  They are now +1/2 on detroit and
    -1 1/2 on milwaukee thanks to Boston Beating Milwaukee last night
    without bird....
    
    The other Key thing to add is that THe BOSTON CELTICS are now the
    proud owners of the best record in the NBA 28-5 .848 and portland
    after losing to dallas are 30-6 .833
    							M.Air.Brooks

    See what you miss when you cant watch a game, Michael Jordan scored
    his 15,000th point in last nights win.  He did it faster than any
    other player (other than wilt chamberlin).  Hes on a 2,500+ pt per
    season average, too bad he only plans on playing 10years in the NBA.
    
    Could someone post the NBA all-time leading scorer list (if they have
    the time to do all that typing) just curiour were MJ will finish if he
    sticks to his original plans with retireing in 1995, thanks.
    								M.Air.B

    Anyone see the dunk by Jordan over Bol last night?  Definite highlight
    film material!
    
    					Steve

    
    
    	Jabbar		38387		20 years
    	Chamberlain	31419		14
    	E. Hayes	27313		16
    	Big O		26710		14
    	Hondo		26395		16
    	West		25192		14
    	Moses*		24868		14
    	English*	24850		14
    
    
    	*At the start of this season...
    
    

    Another point about Air-head Jordan...
    
    He scored his 5,000 and 10,000 points in Philly also...
    
    REK
    
    Read that in the paper this morning.....

    It's worthwhile to note that Jordan has scored his 15,000 career points
    in approx. 460 games, the second fastest of all time.  As wonderful as
    Jordan has been, Chamberlain did it in almost exactly 100 less games!
    
    Dan

    The Nuggets want Kukoc...

    RE: .9 But I bet Cham's didn't do it at the line!
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    Even I one of the bigest jordan fans can say anything bad about
    chamberlin....Oh well I must be losing it....I was re-reading an
    article about MJ, it said he plans to retire after the 1995 season
    and says that 10 years, but he was drafted on june 20 1984 which
    would be 11 years....Im a little confuse here that would make this
    MJ 7th season ??? Ill have to look into this a little closer for 
    some reason I thought this was his 6th ???? Oh well the brain is
    tired this week.
    							M.AIR.B

    Is Jordan the greatest ALL-ROUND player the game has ever seen ??
    
    The Irish Ballhopper.

    I don't know, it's a different game today.
    
    I'd have to seriously consider someone like Dr J for any such title,
    tho.  Of course, Jordan would be in the select group.
    
    Any other nominees?
    
    Lee

    I think MJ may outdo DRJ for the title, MJ's supporting cast which
    I was blink in thinking would improve....Realy stinks up the court
    at some time. They should have 3-5 more W's at this poing, although
    last nights loss was a team effort even MJ shot horrible, Oh well.
    MJ is still the greatest just with the bulls as a team were a little
    better, I keep reading about all these trades going on, dont the bulls
    know they need a few changes to get the rings.......Hope they make a
    move at someone or something soon....Will still be the bulls and the
    celtics in the eastern finals...
    							M_Air_Brooks

I think each player can only be judged within his `era'.

Michael Jordan is god, but Wilt Chamberlain is still holding records
today that might NEVER be beat.

Mike JN

    
    > Any other nominees?
    
      Hank Finkle.
    

    as far as wilt chamberlins records I would almost bet my life against
    anyone ever scoring 100+pts in my lifetime, wont be done, not even by
    MJ himself.  MJ will proberbly score his 2000+++pts a season for the
    next 5 years but if he retires around 1995 he wont break to many
    records as far as all time scoring goes.
    							M_Air_B

    To Michael's credit, unlike some a his Star Heel brethern his idea
    of a pregame sandwich is a Big Mac.
    
    MrT

�    To Michael's credit, unlike some a his Star Heel brethern his idea
�    of a pregame sandwich is a Big Mac.
    
MrT,

But as James Worthy might ask:

What the HAIL is the matter with the occasional taco?!?!?

Mike JN

    Magic or Russell could be put on that list I guess as nominees.
    Or the Big O...

    Magic who.......I hope you dont mean Majic Johnson, please, you cant
    put him on the same plane(sp) as Air Jordan.....Hes great but not that
    great..Magic...Gimme a break (can ya tell I dont really like da lakers)
    				
    								M_Air_B

    Yeah, I do... haven't seen Jordan at forward or center.. or with a ring...

    Well beleive me if there was a way to grow 6 inches in your mid 20's
    Michael would find it and hed be playing center and forwad on the same
    night....He doesnt have the supporting cast that the lakers have.....
    Could yo uimaging Jordan on the lakers of the early to mid 80's without
    Magic, the lakers would have quite a few more rings...Jordan does more
    for the bulls that magic for the lakers....Try to imagine the bulls
    with magic instead of Michael....Theyd be lucky to get thru the 1st rnd
    of the playoffs.......
    							M_Air_Brooks

    Gee, I thought Magic was 6' 8" and Michael was 6'6".  And we all
    know Michael can leap more than Magic.  So what would be the
    problem.  Barkley can play inside and he's 6' 5"....
    
    I don't agree with Magic and Air switching teams.  Can't see
    there being 1 ball for Jordan, Scott and Jabbar.  I can see
    Pippen and others scoring more with Magic.  Agreed Magic has
    a better supporting cast.

    Im sorry I thought that Magic was 6'10" ???? They did a profile on the
    almost Magic VS Michael one-on-one and they had Magic with a 4"hight
    advantage and like a 4" arm length advantage ???  Must of been a miss
    print.  Magic is fun to watch (unless there playing the celtics) but
    Michael is just much better and more exciting, he makes points out of
    plays that NOBODY else would stand a chance at doing...Thats what makes
    him great, even with 3 defenders on him, hell split ya draw the foul
    and toss the ball in the bucket...leave you standing around looking
    like a fool.....Awsome....Although I didnt get to see the NJ game they
    just lost but the bulls are holding onto 1st in the central by a very
    thin margin.
    								M_Air_B

    According to Petersen's Tragic Johnson is 6 feet, 9 inches tall
    and 220 pounds....
    
    REk

    Anyone have the final score of last nights Bulls game, I know they won
    just curious what the score was, I was also wondering if anyone can
    confirm that Portland won 117 to 102 against NJ, thanks in advance.
    								M_Air_B

    I'm looking for the results of the Bulls till now.Can somebody get
    these for me?
    
    Thanks
    
    Patrick

>>    I'm looking for the results of the Bulls till now.Can somebody get
>>    these for me?

Not enough Bulls coverage in Belgium ;-)?  Always glad to help out our
international hoop fans...

==== SCHEDULE FOR CHICAGO ====
  (all times EASTERN - don't know Belgium times ;-))

--- NOV ---
 2 LOST 116 124 PHILADELPHIA
 3 LOST 102 103 at WASHINGTON
 6 LOST 108 110 BOSTON
 7 WON  96 91 at MINNESOTA
 9 WON  120 100 at BOSTON
10 WON  105 86 CHARLOTTE
13 WON  84 82 at UTAH
15 LOST 93 103 at GOLDEN STATE
17 WON  116 95 at SEATTLE
18 LOST 112 125 at PORTLAND
21 LOST 107 109 at PHOENIX
23 WON  105 97 at LA CLIPPERS
24 WON  151 145 at DENVER
28 WON  118 94 WASHINGTON
30 WON  124 95 INDIANA

--- DEC ---
 1 WON  120 85 at CLEVELAND
 4 WON  155 127 PHOENIX
 7 WON  108 98 NEW YORK
 8 LOST 101 109 PORTLAND
11 LOST 87 99 at MILWAUKEE
14 WON  128 88 LA CLIPPERS
15 WON  116 98 CLEVELAND
18 WON  112 103 MIAMI
19 LOST 84 105 at DETROIT
21 WON  114 103 LA LAKERS
22 WON  128 118 INDIANA
25 WON  98 86 DETROIT
27 WON  128 113 GOLDEN STATE
29 WON  116 91 SEATTLE

--- JAN ---
 3 LOST 92 114 at HOUSTON
 5 WON  108 92 CLEVELAND
 8 WON  111 102 NEW JERSEY
 9 WON  107 99 at PHILADELPHIA
11 WON  99 96 ATLANTA
12 WON  106 95 at CHARLOTTE
14 WON  110 97 MILWAUKEE
16 WON  99 88 at ORLANDO
18 LOST 105 114 at ATLANTA
21 WON  117 106 at MIAMI
23 LOST 95 99 at NEW JERSEY
25 WON  108 87 MIAMI
31 LOST 102 106 at SAN ANTONIO

--- FEB ---
 1 WON  101 90 at DALLAS
 3 LOST 86 99 at LA LAKERS
 4 WON  108 97 at SACRAMENTO

Upcoming games:

 7  800 at DETROIT
12  830 ATLANTA
14  730 at NEW YORK
16  830 NEW JERSEY
18  330 at CLEVELAND
19  830 WASHINGTON
22  830 SACRAMENTO
23  830 CHARLOTTE
26  830 BOSTON

--- MAR ---
 1  830 DALLAS
 2  730 at INDIANA
 5  830 MILWAUKEE
 8  830 UTAH
10 1200 at ATLANTA
12  800 MINNESOTA
13  830 at MILWAUKEE
15  730 at CHARLOTTE
16  730 at CLEVELAND
18  830 DENVER
20  830 ATLANTA
22  730 at PHILADELPHIA
23  830 INDIANA
25  830 HOUSTON
28  730 at NEW JERSEY
29  800 at WASHINGTON
31 1230 at BOSTON

--- APR ---
 2  830 ORLANDO
 4  830 at NEW YORK
 5  800 SAN ANTONIO
 7  330 PHILADELPHIA
 9  830 NEW YORK
10  730 at INDIANA
12  800 at DETROIT
15  800 MILWAUKEE
17  730 at MIAMI
19  730 at CHARLOTTE
21  330 DETROIT

    Thanks for the quick response.It suprises me of the minor interest for
    the Bulls in the conferences.Especially when the best player is playing
    for them.We used to have a regular update of the NBA competition on
    EUROSPORT or the Luxemburg/Belgium (RTL) channels.But for an unknown
    reason they stopped broadcasting it this season.So...
    During my reading of the conferences I noticed that Bill Cartwright
    isn't mentioned anymore in the game analysis.Something wrong?
    
    Bull Patrick

    I think part of the problem for Bulls coverage (I feel it for the
    Blackhawks, Cubs, and Bears, as well) is that we don't have very 
    many members of the conference - if any - who live in the Chicago 
    area.  So there isn't anyone around with the little "tidbits" you 
    get from local coverage, talk radio and actual attendance at the 
    games.
    
    It's a shame, 'cause the town has some great teams.
    
    A&W

    I use to post alot of INFO on the bulls, but there really wasnt much
    response or intrest, mostly just BUll Bashers...calling them one
    dimensional and a one man team...Got kind of boring, its nice to know
    there some true fans out there......Im counting down the days to Mar
    31st when I get to see the Bulls Play the Celtics at the Garden, I have
    seats 1st row off the floor...I cant wait.....I already have my Offical
    Bulls Team Jacket and my hat ready to go..I just have to latch on to a
    warm up suit so I can sneak onto the floor and Jam a few baskets over
    Michael...Hold on Im waking up now...Still get to see them though...
    I will try and post info in here about The Bulls, Im still trying to
    find which paper is the best for Info on the Bulls living in NE you get
    mostly Celtics info.....	Eastern Division Champions Chicago Bulls
    							M_Air_Brooks

    -2, you were entering as I was, but your right, are there any Digitals
    in chicago, I would think there were at least a couple.  Oh well, just
    have to rummage thru the local papaers to see what you can dig up I 
    guess.  I like to watch SC early in the morning they usally give a
    little up to date into on the teams.  The national also has a weekly
    update I think on wednesday of all the teams. (NBA).
    							Michael_Air_Brooks

    re .34
    
    Yes, there are offices in Chicago-land.  Pretty good size one, I
    suspect, as there's a Customer Service Area HQ, Ed Svcs training
    site and a competency center in addition to normal sales and field
    service offices.  I really don't understand why no one from the
    area seems to be active here.  :-(
    
    A&W

I've always been a Bulls fan...
Michael Jordan is god
Scotty Pippen has really been awesome lately.
Cartwright's been hurting.
This will probably be his last year.

Funny... Michael Jordan was really high on the idea of acquiring two
specific Denver Nuggets last year. 
Danny Schayes and Fat Lever.
Nobody listens to Michael evidently, but he was right... both of those
players could have had a major impact. Too bad.

Mike JN

    Yeah, he also wanted to acquire Walter Davis, but Portland beat them to
    it. He said that if HE were the GM, they'd have a better team....
    The flip side is that he is supposedly heavily biased toward former Tar
    Heels....  

    I wish they would acquire somebody, they need more then what they have
    they should relize this by now.  last night they did however beat
    Detroit in the palace for the 1st time, it was a close game the lead
    changed something like 26 times...Great game down the stretch, heres
    the bulls #'s
    
Pippen	7-11	6-10	20
Grant	4-8	1-1	 9
Cartwri	2-6	0-0	 4
Paxson	3-4	1-1	 8
Jordan 10-21   10-12	30
Perdue	0-2	0-0	 0
Hopson	2-5	0-0	 4
King	2-5	0-0	 4
Armstro	5-7	2-3	12
Levings	2-4	0-0	 4
WIlliams0-0	0-0	 0
Total  37-73   20-27	95

CHICAGO		25	19	25	26	95
DETROIT		26	15	29	23	93
    
    	Chicago was up by 1pt and had the ball with 14 seconds left and
    	took a time out.  On the in bound pass to MJ, dumars attmepted to
    	hold Michael so He couldnt get to the lob pass, but the refs had
    	there eyes open and saw the play, foul...Then MJ misses the 1st
    	free throw and makes the 2nd one makin it a 2 pt game.  Detroit
    	takes a time out, on there imbound pass they eventually work it
    	over to lambeer for a 3-pt attempt (lots of foul troble so a tie
    	and ot would have been a lose for detoit), detroit then got 2 OFF
    	rebounds and had 3 attempts to tie or win the game, on the final
    	offensive rebound MJ swatted the ball away and Pippen cought it
    	and the rest is history.  The bulls are now 2 wins (and 1 lose)
    	behind Detoit, the paper has this listed as 1/2 game back but there
    	bulls percentage is actually .002 higher than detroits, so I think
    	they are actually leading the division ???  Then now play 6 of
    	there next 8 at home and only 2 teams over .500 and both of them
    	are at chicago....They need a nice 10 game winning streak after the
    	all start break to get them selves in position for best record in
    	the east or at least get a good lead on detroit........Looking
    	forward to the next month of BUlls Ball....Untill next week, have
    	a good all-star weekend..
    						Michael_Air_Brooks

Here's a strange game/win for the Bulls, the team shot an awsome
65% from the field for the game and 81% from the stripe...But MJ
was only 55% from the field and 77% from the line...They still
pulled off a 9pt win with a 122-113 victory.  2 of there most
difficult games of febuary were there last 2 wins, detroit and
now atlanta.  There around 3-4 games back from boston and more
or less even with detroit, a nice win streak in febuary will help
this team in many ways.  Heres some of last nights numbers.

Pippen		 6-10	4-4	16
Grant		10-13	3-4	23 77%field and 75% from the line
Cartwright	 7-10	0-0	14
Paxson	 	 3-5	0-0	 6
Jordan		12-22	7-9	32
Perdue		 2-2	1-1	 5
King		 1-2	0-0	 2
Armstrong	 8-10	2-2	18 WOW 80%field and 100%from the line
Hodges		 1-3	0-0	 2
Levingston	 2-3	0-1	 4
		52-80  17-21   122

Now if just King and Armstrong could both have good games consistently
on the same night....Cartwrights numbers arnt too shabby either.....

							M_Air_Brooks
    

    I am a former Chicagoan who lives in MA and misses all the teams.  When 
    I watched the game against the Nets the other night and saw the Big
    Barn (The Chicago Stadium) on Madison St. rock, it made miss home and
    being at the game.  It's a real shame they had to tear down old
    Comiskey Park.  The charm of these old stadiums can never be replicated
    
    Mark

    Id love to see a Chicago game Live at Chicago, I have to settle for the
    Mar 31st Game at the Boston Garden (but hey its better than not seeing
    them at all).  How long of a drive is it from boston to chicago.......
    	Just Curious...
    
    The Bulls play tonight at home against sacramento....then Charlotte...
    SHould extend there win streak to 9, now if just
    Detroit/Lakers/Portland and Boston could lose a few wed be doing OK
    
    							M_Air_Brooks

    Re. last two
    
    Mark,
    	I'd love to see a Bulls game at the Stadium. I've been to a few 
    Blackhawk-Bruins games in the early to mid-70's at the Stadium with my
    Chicago area roomies when I went to school at ND. It was the rockingest
    place I've ever witnessed a game. Have you been to that great bar just
    down the street from the Stadium,Red Kerr's?  What a place. I'll tell
    you,I thought Boston fans were wild,but Chicago fans are even more
    rabid.
    
    M_Air_Brooks
    
    I think it is around 1000-1100 miles from Boston to Chicago. When I
    went to school at ND I would drive occasionally from Boston to South
    Bend( around 90 miles east of Chitown) and it took me anywhere from
    16-18 hrs straight through. Add a couple more to get to the Loop in
    Chicago. Chicago area noters could get more specific. HTH
    
    
    MikeL
    

    I doubt Id have the $$$ or time to make a trip to chicago even if it
    were possible to get a tickey, I think I will try my luck at getting
    my hands on a pair of playoff tickets for Bulls VS Boston (I have a
    good feeling they will meet for the Eastern Champ).  
    
    As for how things are going, Chicago has now rattled off 9 straight W
    and have there biggest game of FEB on the 26th VS Boston.  If they win
    this tuesday they will be the new owners of the best record in the east
    they are 1/2 game behind boston and 3 1/2 up on detroit.  They are also
    only a 1/2 game behind the Lakers so if somehow Philly can come up with
    a win tonight theres a good chance that the Bulls will be holding the 
    #2 overall best record (at least for a week or so).  What scares me is
    that boston blew what should have been an auto win, so to make up for
    it they need to take a close one, I think this will be a tough game for
    the Bulls and wouldnt put any money down on this one.  I hope Chicago
    can come up with there first double digit win streak of the season,
    after the Boston game they have dallas at home Indiana on the road and
    they Milwaukee at home.  They need to take all 4 of these games because
    they then have a killer March.
    						Go Bulls   M_Air_Brooks

    I hear the celts were hammered last night ! anyone any details on the
    game ?
    
    The Irish Ballhopper.

    Not any worth repeating, unless you're a Celtics fan.  The Bulls had a
    21 point lead after the first quarter and kind of coasted home from
    there.  They were up by 26 at the half and by 36 after 3.  They final
    score was 129-99.
    
    I don't have a box score so I don't have any more details.
    
    John

It was a blow out from the beginning.  Jordan and Pipen both had
great games (30+ points each) and took turns dominating the game.  I was
amazed by Pipen's performance.  Every part of his game was great (driving
to the hole, outside shot, assists, defense, rebounding, getting loose balls).
He gave a super star performance.  The game was even more lopsided than
the score (hard to believe) with the Bulls leading by 40 early in the 4th only 
the have the Celts cut the lead to 30 during garbage time.  The Celts were
obviously not up to snuff but the Bulls looked unbeatable.


                                                            Alan

    It's possible to leave from work on a Thursday evening and get to
    Chicago by 6 the following afternoon, including a rest stop in eastern
    PA (I've done it several times).  For the truly loco, this makes
    a driving 3-day weekend in Chicago feasible.  If the schedules worked
    out, I think a spring weekend of Bulls, Hawks, and Cubs would make
    a truly wacked-out, enjoyable combo.  (So, I'll join the freakin'
    lunatics club.)
    
    Last night's game was something else.  I still haven't figured out
    if the C's were really that bad, or the Bulls were really that good,
    or if the stars were simply misaligned.  For a game I'd been looking
    forward to, it was a disappointment.
    
    A&W 

    
    The Bulls are not at 100%, Dennis Hopson is out and Harvey Grant
    went down in the 1st quarter. Celt's were bad, while the Bulls 
    were great, it all adds up to a MAJOR blowout.
    
    
    
    Steve

>>    The Bulls are not at 100%, Dennis Hopson is out and Harvey Grant
>>    went down in the 1st quarter. Celt's were bad, while the Bulls 
>>    were great, it all adds up to a MAJOR blowout.

Harvey Grant plays for Washington.  Horace plays for Chicago.

    
    oops!

    Did anyone catch Michael Jordan on First Person with Maria Shriver last
    night?  He is a "CLASS" act.  He had a humbling experience in high
    school, he was cut from the varsity basketball team.  Besides having
    some privacy, Michael wants to play professional golf.
    
    Going to Boston to Chicago, it takes about 18 hours.  The fastest way
    is to cut through Canada via Detroit and then Buffalo.

This one's from Sean @rit.  He used to be a co-op and went back to
school.  I can't for the life of me remember his last name, but
most of you know him.

I'm posting this for him.....

 
------
 
(for the bulls topic) :
 
	ICE BABY!!!!  MJ and BULLS are taking a major chill pill for a 
	heavy gell spell this time round.  Detroit's fallibility is 
	a definite welcomed sight.  I guess all those false claims by
	certain *unnamed* Cadaver fans about this "one man" teamed are
	most definitely SILENCED BABY!!!!!  We're looking at the second 
	best record in the NBA and some serious hang time approaching as
	we start edging into the playoffs scene.  NO ONEEE IS TWO BLAMM BABY!!
	MJ BABY AND CO ARE LAYING SOME MAJOR FAHRVERGNUGEN'S.
 
	Oh by the way... hope everyone is doing good.  8^)  Hope Doc, Don,
	Debil Dawg, Denny, JD, Whitey and all you other freaking lunatic
	JN's (TM that one BABY) are BLAMMING AND JAMMING!!!!  
 
	gotta fly (literally) so LATER!!!
--------
 

'Saw

    Bulls Dropped an important win to Indiana, they have a tought enough
    month without dropping the should be wins.  The only thing that saved
    us was the other top teams didnt fair to well (each losing at least
    one over the weekend)  So chicago is still sitting with the second
    best overall record in the NBA and only 2.5 games behing portland.
    About 25 more games to go in the season, hope the bulls can hold tight
    they still have a 5 games edge on Detroit.....
    							M_Air_Brooks

    Playoff Race (Current standings)
    
Eastern		 W  L  PCT  GB		Western		 W  L  PCT  GB

CHICAGO		41 15 .732   -		PORTLAND	45 14 .763   -
Boston		42 16 .724   1		LA Lakers	42 16 .732   2.5
Detroit		38 22 .633   5		*Utah		38 18 .679   5.5
Milwaukee	36 23 .610   6.5	Phoenix		37 19 .661   6.5
Atlanta		33 25 .569   9		SA		36 19 .655   7
Philadelphia	32 25 .561   9.5	Houston		33 24 .579  11
Indiana		27 30 .474  14.5	Golden State	30 26 .536  13.5
New York	27 31 .466  15 		Seattle		28 28 .500  15.5

Washington	22 36 .379  20		Dallas		21 35 .375  22.5
    

    Things are gone very quite in here lately......anyone got any news on
    the currrent standings.
    
    The Irish Ballhopper.

    Last time I looked the Bulls had clinched a playoff spot and were
    holding a pretty commanding lead (7-8 games) over the Pistons and Bucks
    in the Central division.  The beat the Bucks last night by a single
    point, but they won.
    
    Dave W.

    The Bulls are Currently sitting at 46-15 (again thats the best record
    in the NBA at this time).  They played 12 games in Febuary and lost
    just 1 game that was at LA, so far in march they are 6-1 losing just
    to Indaian (at Indiana).  So there 17-2 for the last 2 months.  Too
    bad for the Indiana loss they would have had the longest win streak
    this season if they could have pulled that one off.  They have won
    5 in a row and play a few of the non Playoff bound teams next.  They
    have Charlotte and Cleveland away and then have Denver at home.  Who
    knows maybe they can get a Double Digit win streak going again.  The
    thing they need to do is get that Home Court Advantage, they are 28-3
    at home (best in NBA) and with Home Court through out Playoffs they
    could get a ring on MJ finger.  I just want them to stay hot, I will
    be seeing them Play the Celtics on Mar 31st and it should be a great
    and Important game in the standings.  GO BULLS.....
    							M_Air_Brooks

    Could someone inform me of the latest status of the
    playoffs ??
    
    How have the bulls/michael been doing ?
    
    The Irish Ballhopper.

 Bulls lead the series 3-1 and can wrap it up at home on tuesday...

    The Bulls set the tone in game one by whipping the crap out of philly
    and then kept it going in game 2.  Game 3 went to the wire with Philly
    saving some face by coming away with a 2 pt win on there home court. 
    But Chicago will not be denied and won game 4 in philly and play game
    5 tuesday in chicago (Should be the last game)  However the latest is
    that Michael Jordan is suffering from Tendernites in his Knee(s) and
    may sit game 5 out (I find this hard to believe, but dont know how
    severe the injury is).  This could be a devastating blow to the sports
    profession, the Possible best Basketball Player of all time having his
    career shortened, theres alot of records that will be safe if this is
    true......GO BULLS, and get well soon MJ
    							M_Air_Brooks

                   
    > that Michael Jordan is suffering from Tendernites 
                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Trademark this baby, M_Air!  First Roger Clemens suffers from the
    Tendernites during last year's stretch run, now Jordan.  Maybe these
    highly-paid studs should think about celibacy when the playoff 
    money's on the line, no?
    
    glenn
    

    ...to appeal to the gentle lady in your life.
    
    A&W

    Did the Bulls win the series last night ???
    
    Also, what's this I hear about Michael's injury ? 
    
    The Irish Ballhopper.

    YEs the Bulls closed it out in 5 games.  Pippen had a great 1st half
    and jordan had a great 2nd half and they won by 5 pts.  Jordan is
    limping and having a little trouble getting back on defense but still
    has his explosiveness when driving for the basket.  I dont really know
    the true severity of his injury but appears to be just a bothersome
    that he will have to Mentally/Physicall deal with.  I think hes strong
    enough mentally to play in Pain, he wants a ring and this is hes year.
    
    							M_Air_Brooks

Well, for a guy who's injured, Jordan certainly had a second half, scoring 22
points and grabbing 12 rebounds (he finished with 38 points, 19 rebounds - a
career high, and 7 assists).

    ANY MORE NEWS ON THE PLAYOFFS.....THE LAST I HEARD, THE BULLS WERE
    LEADING DETROIT 1-0. 
    
    WE REALLY ARE STARVED OF NBA INFO HERE IN IRELAND !!!
    
    THE BALLHOPPER.

    Bulls lead detroit 2-0.

    Sorry for not keeping Sports people update, ive been putting most
    of my replies in the Boston Celtics notes file, I think its on
    BIRDS::BOSTON_CELTICS so if you want to add that one in youll get
    more Bulls Info..
    								M_Air_B
    
    

    re .74
    
    Keith, that note belongs in the Junk Notes topic.

Ya, right along with ALL of your replies! 8^))


Steve

    Re: .74
    
    That's where all the best basketball minds on the net congregate.

    Bulls just completed a 4 game sweep over the Pistons.
    
    
    Tom

    Congrats to the Bulls fans.  I said back last June (off the record),
    I expected a Bulls-Blazers final. (Well, that might be half right, and
    I had the Blazers taking it)... I thought the Bulls would finally crack
    through.  The deserved it.  Didn't see any of the game yesterday, taped
    the game at the wrong speed on the tape.  Don't think I want to....
    
    Congrats and good luck,
    Walt

    Aweful quiet in here.  Lakers take Game 1, 93-91 on a 3-pointer by Sam
    Perkins with about 20 seconds left.
    
    The Bulls were kilt on the foul line, where reminiscent of last series,
    the Lakers had 34 attempts to Chicago's 18.   Pippen and Jordan had 5
    personals - and the two had 55 of Chicago's 91 points - 36 for Jordan,
    19 for Scootie.  Bill Cartwright disappeared.
    
    The Lakers got Magic's 29th career playoff triple-double (19,10,11), 22
    points from Perkins and Worthy, and 16 points and 14 rebounds from
    Vlade.  
    
    We even got a little shoving match between Michael and Byron.  Tsk.
    Tsk.
    
    JD

    
    
    	Personally, I can't figure out why Jordan, who is known as Mr.
    I_get_every_call, didn't drive on that last shot.  Here's a guy who
    is arguably the best driver/one on one player in the game taking a
    18 footer to win the game.  I could agree with that if he was a good
    outside shooter, but I just don't understand why he didn't drive.
    
    	As for the Bulls, I hate to say it, but the series is in effect
    over.  I don't think the Bulls have the mental toughness nor the
    tools to pull it out, especially after being put away in the first
    game at home.
    
    	Another bad omen for the Bulls was the fact that Jordan had an
    incredible game and the Bulls still lost.  If Bird had compiled those
    stats yesterday, we'd sure be hearing about it.  Jordan scores 36,
    grabs 12 rebounds and dishes for 8 assists and the Bulls still loose.
    
    	I think yesterday's game just showed that Jordan is MVP, but Magic
    is still the best all-round player in the game.  Talent being basically
    equal, Magic has the ability to lift the other players around him, 
    which puts him above Michael.
    
    							bill.g..
    

    re .80
    
    JD, did you say that Micheal and Bryon started shoving ?
    
    You know this makes Bryon mass-murdering, classless scum, right ?
    :-)
    
    BTW, check out Friday's National. The column in the back of the paper
    was excellent (re. the Pistons and Bulls) ... I could send you a copy.
    
    re .82
    
    Goose, I wouldn't say that the talent is "basically equal". I think
    that it is no coincidence that Cartwright disappeared, and Vlade had
    another great game ... not to mention Perkins. Man !
    
    Was Dallas that stupid and unimaginative ? Is LA's half-court game that
    suited to Sam. Or is it purely Magic (pun intended) ?
    
    Bottom line - the Lakers are a vet bunch, they have been tested and
    retested in the fire. Tempered steel if you will. Sometimes, no amount
    of talent can substitute for that. No Bull has been around the block
    the way the starting unit of the Lakers (and AC Green and Thompson)
    has. The only Bull that can relate is Phil Jackson. It will be up to
    him to keep some perspective on his team.
    
    Doc

    Bill (and others) -
    
    The key to beating the Bulls, IMO, is not to stop Jordan - let him
    score - but stop the other guys.  If you keep Pipen to around 20 - it
    means Jordan has to score 50, or Grant, Cartwright and Paxson have to
    score some serious points - Grant and Cartwright killed the Pistons -
    yesterday, the other 3 scored 18 points between them.  You can't win
    the finals with 2 guys scoring.
    
    Also, double-teaming Magic plays into his strong point - passing to the
    open man.  The Lakers are a worse team the more Magic scores.   Also,
    the Lakers have an advantage in that Scott can at least play some
    defense on Jordan - but Paxson can not guard Magic at all - which
    forces the Bulls to put either Jordan or Pippen on him.  Which means
    that your offensive threats have to play serious defense, and can't
    cheat for open shots.
    
    Also, this series, Scottie Pippen has to cover someone - last series
    the only front court guy doing anything for the Pistons was Aguirre -
    this series Scottie has to cover Worthy, Magic or Perkins.  He only
    shot 7-19 from the floor, after being HOT vs. the Pistons.
    
    The pressure is really on the Bulls in Game 2 (why wait til
    Wednesday??) - if they lose, it is over.  However, if they win, they
    can still easily take the series...
    
    JD

    Doc - 
    
    Though this is really fior the NBA note - regarding Dallas and Perkins.
    I think Dallas was dumb - they have problems with player development
    and moves.  This is the team that had 3 first rounders (in the first 16
    picks) during one of the richest draft years, and picked Detlef
    Schrempf, Bill Wennington and Uwe Blab.  They needed a center, so they
    pick two guys, who are basically the same.  Then they trade for James
    Donaldson the same year - dumb moves.  They never use Schrempf
    correctly - the coach doesn't like him.  They dump Scrempf - who wins
    the NBA 6th man award.  
    
    Not a smart front office - not at all.
    
    Send a copy of that article to my mail stop (TUK).
    
    
    jd

    re .84
    
    Let Jordan get his ...
    
    The famous Wilt 'defense'. Another factor JD, the Lakers have some
    soild indivdual defenders as well as team defenders. Magic can do a
    very good job on Grant in the post. Perkins and Worthy as well. We
    already know about the Lakers team D. All of that means two things :
    
    1) The Bulls have to find a way to get some low-post offense generated,
    and some cheap baskets. If the Lakers keep the score in the 90's, the
    BUlls are in trouble.
    
    2) The Bulls have to get some scoring from Paxton and BJ. Paxton from
    outside, BJ off the penetration. Trouble is, Paxton can't guard Magic.
    Bj can't guard anyone (so they say) ....
    
    Doc

    re .85
    
    I think the Globe talked about Dallas' many blunders after developing a
    contender. That year (85 ?) they could have had Joe Dumars OR Karl
    Malone. They took Wennington (stiff), Blab (maga-stiff), and Schrempf. 
    They misused Perkins, gambled big on Tarpley (and have lost it seems),
    and of course dumped Dale Ellis on Seattle, wherehe raises his scoring
    average from 7 ppg to 25.
    
    Forget the Clippers - that's *stoooopid* !

The Bulls got the Kiss o Death from NBC yesterday when they named him
Player of the Game when the outcome of the game was still in doubt.

TTom

    Perkins was 3-4 from three point land!

>    Perkins was 3-4 from three point land!
 
 so what who cares???  ;^)

 good exchange yesterday between Dan and Don, Don questioning Dan about the
 foul discrepencies. Dan claims  "well the Lakers like to go inside so they
 draw alot of fouls." Don comes back with "The Celtics always went inside too."
 Dan conclusion: "Lakers still get screwed but never blame the refs for loss,
 Celtics have the refs in their backpockets."

 Don't you just love colored glasses?

 ;^)

    hawk axed if Perkins hit a few bombs, I gave him the answer. 
    
    

    
    	Doc, I wasn't refering to team talent in my comment.  I was
    refering to the talent between Michael and Magic.
    
    								bill
    

	- I figured frontcourt matchups would be vital in this series.
    	  Lakers have more talented big men than any other team Chicago
          has faced during the playoffs thus far.  LAs starting frontcourt
          had 60 points/21 rebounds compared to 31 points/21 rebounds for
          Chicago's.
         
        - Bulls will need more than just Scottie & Michael.  Outside of
          those 2, no one else scored more than 6 points.   Scottie
          was horrendously cold from the outside for most of the game.
    
    	- Lakers bench was pathetic, twice giving up leads when they 
          were in there.  
    
        - MJ had 18 first half points for Chicago.  Bad sign - that 
    	  basically means he is the offense.    
    
    	- Experience is a big intangible; LA has it, Chicago needs more 
          of it.  Bulls also need to penetrate more instead of relying on 
    	  the outside shot so much.  That will get them to the foul line 
          more often.  
    
        - Matchup problems all over for Chicago - Michael covers Magic,
          which means he's got to work harder defensively.  If you 
          double Magic, he'll find the open man for the easy shot.  No 
    	  way Paxson can guard Magic.  Grant had major problems guarding
    	  Perkins, so Jackson switched Cartwright on him, freeing up Divac 
    	  on the offensive boards.  Worthy/Pippen is a wash, just sit back 
    	  and watch 'em work.  Bulls will have to stay out of foul trouble.
    	
    
    	  					 glen j.
                               

    
    > And, there's no excuse for leaving Perkins wide-open in that situation. 
    > Big man, or not.  Outside the 3-point circle, or not.  When the game's
    > on the line, the defenders' have to be in their man's face, not playing
    > the gambling zone `D'.
    
    Nor was there any excuse for the Lakers allowing Jordan to take a
    virtually uncontested 18-foot jumper in the final seconds, about as
    good an opportunity as you'll ever see in that situation. 
    Unfortunately, Jordan must have felt the collar tightening, as he'll
    hit that shot most of the time...
    
    glenn
    

>>    hawk axed if Perkins hit a few bombs, I gave him the answer. 
  
 and since when did you become Hawk's personal answering service?

 ;^)

 unlike Knight's excellent advice "I will not sit back and enjoy it...."


  
    

    
    re: .89
    
    The 2-3-2 format didn't seem to affect the Pistons last year as they
    went into Portland tied 1 - 1 and swept the 3 games in Portland.
    
    The NBC announcers were always saying that the more Magic has to score
    the Lakers are in trouble.  The same goes for Jordan.  The first
    quarter the rest of the Bulls team was watching Michael score 15 pts.
    
    I don't think they ever got into the game.
    
    \pjb  

    Hawk -
    
    The Bulls werre favored in this series.  Many picks were Bulls in 6.
    
    I agree on the dragging out.  Are they going tyo play 3 &4 back-to-back
    on Sat and Sun???  Totally stupid format.
    
    I thought the Pistons swept the Blazers last year???
    
    JD

    This is the format for the finals:
    
    Game 1-Sunday (June 2nd)
    Game 2-Wednesday
    Game 3-Friday
    Game 4-Sunday (June 9th)
    Game 5-Wednesday
    Game 6-Friday
    Game 7-Sunday (June 16th)
    
    There's a couple strange things about this format that caught my
    attention.  First of all, there's no traveling between games 1 and 2,
    and they have 2 days off.  Then they travel between games 2 and 3, but
    they only have 1 day off.  Go figure.  
    
    Also, I think that game 4 this coming Sunday doesn't start until 7pm
    Eastern time.
    
    Joe
    
       

    Interesting on the timing of Sunday's game.  Probably dictated by NBC,
    which has both the NBA and the finals of the French Open.  I really,
    really don't understand why game 2 is being played Wednesday instead of
    Tuesday, however.  What's NBC have on tonight??
    
    A&W

Actually, NBC has a new 5 part series starting tonight at 10:00 pm called
"C. Everett Coop, MD" on the health care system in the US.  A friend of mine
co-produced the first part and produced the 5th, so I'll probably watch it.

NBC did'nt want to pre-empt their highly profitable Thursday night line-up, and
also thought that too many people would be outdoors on a Sunday afternoon, hence
the 7:00 pm start time.

Sucks, but that's life.

Sameer

    But for us West Coasters, the 7:00 pm start time Sunday translates to
    4:00 pm - so if its nice it means sitting on the patio, flipping
    burgers, drinking brewskis, with the black n white portable outside -
    tis a great life!
    
    JD

 Sameer's correct it's the thursday nite lineup that they didn't want to
 interupt. God forbid the Hara LALAWRITES miss their fix...

 ;^)

Wrong Mikey, it's all reruns now 8^)

'Saw

I watched "C. Everett Coop" lasted night, and I give my compliments to the guy
who produced it - it was excellent.  It was a real eye opener about the state of
health care in the U.S.

Anyway, about hoop.  Is this not the latest in the year the finals have ever 
gone?  I remember thinking in past years that it was outrageous that they would
strech into June, leave alone mid-June.  Once again the networks are dictating
how a sport is run.

Obviously the problem the Bulls had was not that Michael was scoring all the 
points, but that the team was standing around watching him do it.  This has been 
their problem in past years, and their success this year had been due to the 
fact that other people were getting involved.  I think in game two it is very 
important for the Bulls to break this trend.

=Bob=

Re: -.1

According to an interview with Michael, he started cooking in the 1st Q
because the other guys were slow starting up, and by the time they woke
up, they'd been standing around watching him for too long...

Let's hope Action Jackson can get "the other 3" by THAT barrier tonight,
or this could be a SHORT series...

- Steve

    I love it.  I love it.  What comes around goes around....
    
    Phil Jackson is whining in the papers today about how the Lakers got
    all the calls. WAH WAH Phil.  You whined enough to get the refs on your
    side vs. Detroit - but now its a different ballgame - you are at the
    disadvantage.  Tough crap crybaby.  Of course, maybe you'll get the
    same sympathetic refs you had last series, and you'll get your way. 
    Perhaps holding your breath until turning purple will help. 
    
    Poor, poor Phil.  Perhaps if you simply prepared your team to play
    hoops, instead of looking for divine intervention from the striped
    shirts, they wouldn't have played flat for most of Game 1.
    
    Boy, if the BUlls lose tonight, Ol' Phil will really be crying a river.
    
    Hey Phil - I know what you can do - blame it on Rodman...
    
    JD

    I see in the paper that Jackson may have Pippen more on Magic.  It's
    not a bad move for the Bulls - it puts Jordan on Worthy, where he can
    hack with impunity, and probably means the Bulls will look to double
    Magic a lot more than Sunday.  It will be interesting to see what
    happens when Magic starts posting up.  What it will mean in the end is
    that Perkins will have to have a big game for the Lakers to win, and I
    know he has it in him.
    
    Dan

    
    >>it puts Jordan on Worthy, where he can hack with impunity,
    
    Do you mean to insinuate that Jordan never gets hacked? Or that
    Jordan's defensive style is to hack? Why do you feel Jordan will not be
    called for a foul? How many fouls were called on Jordan Sunday?
    
    Are you insinuating that anyone who defends a Laker hacks? 
    
    Rich
    

    
    re.  Phil Jackson whining in the papers about how the Lakers got all
    of the calls.  Our local sportswriter was writing about the upcoming
    series between the Lakers and the Bulls.  It was all done tongue
    in cheek but it was pretty funny.  In game 1 Jordan drives the lane
    the whistle blows foul on Bill Laimbeer.  Oops Laimbeer is not playing
    in this game.
    
    \pjb

    >>it puts Jordan on Worthy, where he can hack with impunity,
    
    Is this an example of the excellent, insightful, and thoughtful
    analysis you claimed in the "Going Away Party" topic?

    Rich, when Jordan fouls Magic, the star factor cancels out and the refs
    blow the whistle.  If and when Jordan fouls Worthy, the star factor is
    in full effect and the ref swallows the whistle.  This was in full
    effect on Sunday, when in one of the few times Michael covered James
    posting up, Michael pushed him waist level as he jumped then jumped
    with him and got him on the arm.  No call of course, and I wasn't
    expecting one.  It's the way of the world.
    
    Dan

    Dan,
    
    Jordan couldn't have done that. If you dont' believe me, I'm sure Air
    Brooks will explain the play in slow motion for ya.  Besides, according
    to everyone, from Pat Riley and Phil jackson to Jordan, the Detriot
    (tm) Pistons are the only hoop team that puts a hand or body on the
    opposition while shooting.
    
    C'mon Dan, get it straight.
    
    JD

I agree that it is somewhat amusing that Phil Jackson is whinning about calls, 
but I also think that a lot of times coaches will do that to take the pressure
off the players.  Jackson is not going to come out and say "Yea, we lost 
because Scottie Pippen and Bill Cartwright sleep walked through a good portion
of the game".

The image of them calling a foul on Laimbeer is pretty amusing though.  If 
Michael had the ball and Laimbeer were in the stands watching, he'd probably
get the call.


=Bob=

 in my bestest Markie impersonation: "How 'bout 'dem Lakers?"

 ;^)

WUZ I DREAMIN'?   (;^9)  (tongue firmly-in-cheek - or Michael-driving?)

Coulda SWORN last night, while I thot I was watching the NBA finals, that
I saw, within about 5-minutes:

1.  Magic NOT get a Blocking call on one of his patented dive-at-the-basket,
    lay-out-prone-and-land-on-somebody-then-fall-down-in-agony shots...

2.  Magic GET a charge call, merely for running head-on into a feet-planted-
    in-concrete defender (WIlliams, I believe it was)...

3.  Magic bobble a soft pass out of bounds, with no defender within 5 feet...

Can it BE he's human, after all -- and even the REFS are thinking so...?


Meanwhile (so as not waste space with another Note), Michael sure was
awesome last night -- 13 straight, including the 12th the hard-way...  But
what was more impressive was the way he set up the rest of the team in the
first half; if the Bulls can keep to that strategy (and keep Pippin on
Magic), this could go in SIX...

- Steve, a_lifelong_Celts_fan_who_LOVES_seeing_real_basketball_again

Magic must have been injured lasted night, yea that's it! He had a roid 
or somin'. Otherwise the Lakers would've easily won this game.



Steve

    Could I have been dreaming or did the Bulls turn into the Pistons???
    
    I mean, before the game starts, they show a slo-mo clip of Michael
    guarding Magic in game 1, and HORRORS!!! Jordan is bumping magic, he's
    hand checking him, he's bumping him some more!!!  Quick!!! Get the
    Media police- call David Stern - arrest that man!!!  Maybe Jordan is
    Rodman....
    
    And then, wait....I'm watching the game, and Scottie Pippin is bumping
    and grinding Magic so much I thought Magic was paying Scottie for a
    table dance.  I checked my set - surely that was Dennis Rodman doing
    that, and not ol' sourpuss Scottie.
    
    But then I see Cliff Levingston, Horace Grant and Bill Cartwright, on
    seperate occassions applying facials to Magic - and no flagrant calls,
    in fact, on two of 'em, there are NO calls....caint be - only Laimbeer,
    Salley and Manson do that type of thing!!!
    
    And the Bulls play 'aggressive' defense - they look like the Pistons...
    
    I caint understand it...
    
    JD
    
    PS:  He was absent after Game 1 - but will Air Brooks show up now that
    the bulls won??

JD, if that was Bird and the Celts you were talking about instead of
Magic and the Lakers...well you can guess the rest.


Steve_who_is_wondering_why_the_hell_it's_ok_for_some_but_not_for_others

    Steve,
    
    Actually, my note was a cut at Air Brooks.  The Bulls did exactly what
    the Pistons do on defense, and Air complained about it til no end.  Of
    course, he'll make up some excuse bout it.
    
    If the Celts were playing the Bulls, I'd say the same thing, in the
    same circumstances (I.E. whining by Bulls fans...)
    
    I don't really care who wins, but figure that if the Lakers win, I
    won't have to listen to the Jordan Jihad, I'll think its funny to see
    the Bulls lose and their fans whine, and it would piss the Celtics fans
    off.   That's a lot of good natured ribbing I can hand out if the
    Lakers win.  If the Bulls win, I'll have to listen to Glenn demand I
    give Jordan his due, like he did with cheapshot Mario.
    
    
    If the Bulls win, its because of the Knicks connection (Jackson/Mr.
    Bill/Marv ALbert..)
    
    JD

    > If the Bulls win, I'll have to listen to Glenn demand I
    > give Jordan his due, like he did with cheapshot Mario.
      
    Sorry to disappoint you, JD, but as I said before I'd just as soon see
    Magic win his sixth as Jordan his first.  I have respect for both
    players.  You state that you don't care but your "objectivity" always 
    manages to come shining right on through...
    
    And on the Mario thing, if you're going to make a statement like
    "Mario will *never* win the Cup because...", hey, you're going to get
    called on it.
    
    While we're at it, anybody else getting sick of this "jihad" crap?  Is
    there any popular team or player not represented by a "jihad" in here,
    responsible in someone else's eyes for all atrocities known to man?  ;-)
    
    glenn
               

>    While we're at it, anybody else getting sick of this "jihad" crap?  Is
>    there any popular team or player not represented by a "jihad" in here,
>    responsible in someone else's eyes for all atrocities known to man?  ;-)
    
    Yeah, the Donks.
    
    Mark.

JD, I guess it depends on which jihad you'd rather listen too.
The Jordan Jihad or the Magicabalamajad(tm). Personally I could
care less who wins. I just like to watch the roles reverse in here, 
I find it quite amusing, not to mention some great b-ball action!


Steve

    Yeah, but Steve, I figure more Celts fans will be rooting for the Bulls
    than the Lakers, so it will be more fun if the Lakers win...
    
    Glenn - Jihad - hey its a word.  Could always think of another one...
    
    And remember, teh best thing that happened to the Pens was Mario being
    hrut.  No secret that they win the cup in the year he misses a majority
    of the games.  If he had been there all season long, I'd wager they
    dont' make the big trade with harfed, and they are playing golf early
    as usual.  If I was the Pens, I'd have Mario get a hang nail for half
    of nexted season so they can play good hockey again!  ;-)
    
    Hawk - yeah, but then we can have fun nailing the Laker (non-jihad word
    goes here)
    
    JD

    Yes, but the Laker Jihad is such an honorable, honest lot.
    
    Dan

    JD = BROKENRECORD.COM
    
    Right outta the Dr. M book.
    
    NAZZ

    Nazz can you do a Delete Brokenrecord.com for me Im sick of listen to
    that tune :-) (jd = brokenrecord.com I like that one).....
    
    Talk about your hypocrit...After praising Detroit Defense in one breath
    you turn around and say The Bulls are playing dirty like Detroit ??????
    
    Last Years Pistons Compared to This years Bulls...Who had the better
    regular season record, and who had the better playoff record.  The
    bulls are currently 14-2 in the playoffs and had a 61-21 reg season.
    What were the pistons records from last year.
    
    Im truley enjoying alot of notes in here, the only thing that could
    have made it more enjoyable is if Jordan had hit that final shot in
    game 1.  Now were at the point were people will use injuries as excuses
    when the fact is that the BULLS were the BEST TEAM IN THE NBA THIS YR
    HANDS DOWN.....I dont care if the Blazers had a better regular season
    they play in the Weaker West Division :-)....This could be 3 in a row
    for the Eastern Central Division, but of course the east is weaker...
    
    Is jordan finaly getting his due, maybe, but many other GREAT players
    have never won a championship and they are still considered great. 
    Jordan will go down as one of the best ever to play the game, as well
    as Magic and Bird.  
    
    One thing thou, this is not over...ALot of people were counting chicago
    out of it after they lost ther first game...How wrong they were, so
    dont count LA out yet...When the BULLS win there 4rth game in the
    series it will be over, Im not celabrating untill that happens.. I
    remember celabrating to the REDSOX World Series Win a little too soon.
    The Bulls had a great season and are having a terrific post season, why
    because I dont bet on them anymore :-)...I think im there worse jinx.
    So I never gurantee a win and never bet on them to win :-)..Go bulls.
    
    							M_AIR_Brooks

    Air -
    
    Get a clue.  You didn't understand a thing I said.  You don't even know
    when people are mimicing YOU - which is what I was doing.
    
    Very convenient that you disappear from here - until the Bulls are up
    3-1.  
    
    And look up hypocrit in the dictionary - it will be like looking into a
    mirror.  YOU are the one who accused the Pistons of playing dirty hoops
    - not me.  I praised Detroits' defense - only to have to hear your
    cries and whines about dirty play.  I find it very amusing that the
    same aggressive defense (which I like) when employed by your beloved
    Bulls is simply aggressine - not dirty.  
    
    Try being objective about something - you might discover some things.
    
    Ta ta boopie.
    
    JD

    
    Oh yeah - CONGRATS on discovering what paragraphs are - you are ALMOST
    readable now...
    
    

	I still dont see how you can compare the current bulls game
	to the pistons game, unless of course your a lakers fan, than
	I can understand the whinning. (page Break)
New Paragraph
		The Bulls are playing great defense but are not pushing
	people out of bounds, wrapping up magic anytime he comes in the
	paint.  And to my knowledge they do not have a Magic rule !!!!

	Great Defense and/or Agressive Defense do not get you 62% shooting
	The only wrap up in the paint on a drive I've seen was magic on
	jordan (not vice versa).

	This has been an incredible series (best in my memory of course 
	this could have something to do with being a bulls fan) I cant
	wait for next year watching my bulls play in May (and hopefully
	June)

	And I DID NOT DISSAPEAR WHEN THE BULLS WERE DOWN 1-0 I was home
	in bed recovering from cardiac arrest (I was out that entire
	week, in case you didnt notice).  Im sure you had a very easy time
	reading all the notes last week, no run-run-run on sentances and
	paragraphs from ol babling.  OF course when I got back this monday
	the bulls were already back up 3-1...What am I suppose to do enter
	a note about how worried I was, when I never had any doubt. :-)

	I hope the Bulls keep levingston around, but Ive finally giving up
	on stacey King, dump him in the off season...Maybe we can trade him
	for some new balls or something....:-) (Game 5 Tonight)
								M_Air_Brooks

	I still dont see how you can compare the current bulls game
	to the pistons game, unless of course your a lakers fan, than
	I can understand the whinning. (page Break)
New Paragraph
		The Bulls are playing great defense but are not pushing
	people out of bounds, wrapping up magic anytime he comes in the
	paint.  And to my knowledge they do not have a Magic rule !!!!

	Great Defense and/or Agressive Defense do not get you 62% shooting
	The only wrap up in the paint on a drive I've seen was magic on
	jordan (not vice versa).

	This has been an incredible series (best in my memory of course 
	this could have something to do with being a bulls fan) I cant
	wait for next year watching my bulls play in May (and hopefully
	June)

	And I DID NOT DISSAPEAR WHEN THE BULLS WERE DOWN 1-0 I was home
	in bed recovering from cardiac arrest (I was out that entire
	week, in case you didnt notice).  Im sure you had a very easy time
	reading all the notes last week, no run-run-run on sentances and
	paragraphs from ol babling.  OF course when I got back this monday
	the bulls were already back up 3-1...What am I suppose to do enter
	a note about how worried I was, when I never had any doubt. :-)

	I hope the Bulls keep levingston around, but Ive finally giving up
	on stacey King, dump him in the off season...Maybe we can trade him
	for some new balls or something....:-) (Game 5 Tonight)
								M_Air_Brooks

    JD, did you ever get that article ?
    
    And where is my prize from the Celtic elimination contest ?

    Air, I distinctly remember sports reports stating that the Bulls made a
    conscious decision to mimic the Pistons tough defensive style of play.
    
    Kind of like when the Lakers started working on their half court game
    and defense to keep up with the Celtics.

    Scottie Pippens 'chest bump' defense is exactly the defense Dennis
    Rodman used against Scotttie.  The defense Phil and Mikey and Scottie
    cried and whined against and the refs disallowed last series.  It's a
    great defense.  I like it.  Just wish it was universally allowed, and
    not allowed on the whim of a cowering, cowardly, gutless ref.
    
    re:  Dr. Midnith
    
    Doc - I have your prize, and am in the process of mailing it.  I'm 
    sorry about not doing it sooner.  I mailed Walt's - but I owe you, Bob
    M. and Scott Kirkman.  I will mail by end of week.
    
    JD

    yes, yes, its all over but the whinning..Thoses big terible nasty bulls
    cheated. ....The Bulls might have mimiced the Pistons STYLE of defense
    but they still do not CHEAP SHOT, KICK peoples hurt ankles, step on
    people feet (intentianaly) or throw poeple into the seats.  The only
    way I could actaully enjoy watching the bulls if they did play that way
    was if they were playing the pistons...:-)
    
    Bulls Repeat in 92 !!!!!!
    							M_Air_Brooks

          <<< AIADM::WORK$DISK:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOSTON_CELTICS.NOTE;5 >>>
                         -< Boston Celtics (volume V) >-
================================================================================
Note 72.409                       Chicago Bulls                       409 of 409
VLNVAX::MBROOKS                                      24 lines  17-JUN-1991 15:17
          -< A few Tidbits to quench the Hunger...Un_Bull-ieba_Bull >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Latest and Greatest BULLS-News
    
    	Pippen Signed to Big Time Multi Year Contract.  Scottie Pippen
    	signed a 5yr extension worth 18Million, this will be spread out
    	accross this season(past) the next 2 seasons and the 5 year
    	extension.  This averages out to $2.6 Million a year over the
    	8 year period that runs thru the 1998 season.  I think jordan's
    	contract runs out in 1995, hope he extends for a few years, but
    	I think he'll retire after that season.  That means the bulls
    	have a great shoot at being the team of the 90's !!!!!!
    
    On another note, the HYATT hotel chain annonunced a deal with Michael
    Jordan, they will be entering the Restuarant Buisness.  Hyatt will
    open there first "Michael Jordan's" in january in downtown Chicago.
    The Resturant will also have a gift shop to sell jordan's line of
    everything :-) ...
    
    In last months SI they had an article on Jordan VS Magic, they both
    make almost the same amount of $$$ from the NBA but jordan makes about
    $1Mil more a year in endorsments, I wonder how much Hyatt is dishing
    out :-) ... Last year Jordan was estimated at a net worth or $40+Mil
    I wonder how many years untill he passes the 100Mil mark.  Talk about
    a great buisness sense...And he can play ball too :-)
    							M_Air_Brooks
    

    
    
    Well the mayor of the city of Detroit Coleman Young came out and
    blasted the national press for their coverage of the city of Chicago's
    celebration of the Bulls NBA championship.  Coleman in effect said
    that he was extremely upset at the biased reporting of the trouble
    that occurred in Chicago.  References to 3 shootings and looting of
    a sporting goods store was mentioned.  Young compared the coverage of
    the Pistons championship where a drunk ran down a crowd of people and
    that incident was all over the national press.  Not a word in the
    national press about the above mentioned incidences.
    
    \pjb

    He has a point ....

Two wrongs don't make a right...

    No he doesn't.  First he complains that the Detriot incident gets
    national coverage.  Then, when the press does what he would have called
    the right thing had they done it to Detriot, he whines that the Chicago
    incident doesn't get covered nationally.  He wants it both ways.  The
    guy has a persecution complex and ought to just do his job and not
    worry about everyone else's.
    
    Bruce  
    
    

    RE: Young has a point...
    
    Yeah, too bad his hat usually hides it.
    
    News is news.  If the media felt the incident was new-worthy they'd
    report it.  Face it, Chicago's just a much nicer city.
    
    Go_Cubbies
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

I heard that the Chicago fans got drunk ransacked the local Nike outlet. 
Shot some guns into the night sky and killed inocent bystander. Did any-
thing else occur that wasn't covered ? 

    Nice to see that Detroit's mayor has as much class as the Pistons!
    
    I heard the report of the arrests and looting in Chicago on CNN.
    Is that national enough for mayor Young?
    
    NAZZ

    While one piece of chicago's puzzle is gone.  Not that he was a huge
    piece but in my eyes an important one.  Scott Williams sigend with a
    eropeon team, this means king will more than likely still be a bull
    next year.  Oh well, the only player still without a contract for the
    upcoming season is Mr Bill (cartwright).  I believe everyone else is
    inked, I beleive even there 1 draft pick is inked (not positive). 
    More info as it comes, although most of my time will be concentrating
    on Football for the next 5-6 months.
    
    							M_Air_Brooks

       Hey Brooksie, did you see yourself on TV last night? They did a
    story on Ch4 about the FY91 earnings and rolled the old DEATHworld tape.
                                                    Denny

    -2, No I missed it ... Im a star and didnt know it...As long
    as there was nothing like... And now a tape of the next people
    in the Dec Cutbacks..Roll Tape.  
    							M_Air_Brooks

    
    	Mo-Money Mo-Money Mo-Money
    
    	MVP and Member of the WORLD CHAMPION CHICAGO BULLS
    	Michael Jordan Inked a deal with Gatorade, exact ##'s
    	are unknown but are believed to be around 18Mill for
    	a 10 year Deal.  Id like to have a percentage of his
    	intrest...Whew..
    							M_Air_Brooks

Like the Gatorade commercial says:

	I wanna be like Mike.....

    
    "Hi, this is Michael "Air" Jordan for B & M Baked Beans..."
    

Nope.  B&M have a "regular guy" campaign just about to be launched:

	
	[Chainsaw in rugby shirt]  Hi, I'm Frank Way and I play
	rugby.  But when I'm not rucking and mauling and scrumming,
	I love to sit down to a hearty dish of beer and B&M Brick
	Oven Baked Beans.

	Thick and saucy, these babies give me all I need on my
	training table.  Why, there's nothing like getting into
	a scrum and cheesing a few off to make the game more
	interesting.  

	And when I need to cheese 'em, I count on B&M Brick Oven
	Baked Beans.  One can for dinner the night before a game
	and I'm ready for 80 action packed minutes on the pitch
	the next afternoon.


	Next time your in my neighborhood, stop by, set a spell,	
	and share some B&M Brick Oven Baked Beans.  Then we'll
	cheese a few off, and talk about rugby.....

    Saw the Gatorade commercial last night.  Hated it.
    
    "I wanna be like Mike...???"   If Mike was a Doctor, or a scientist, a
    teacher, or someone performing a useful function in society, it would
    be great.  But a hoopster who can slamma jamma?  Nah.   
    
    JD

    Re: I wanna be like Mike
    
    But I already am!
    
    *Mike*

    -2, If you dont want to be a positive role model to todays youth
    THEN DONT...
    							M_Air_Brooks

JD's got a point.

I've got nothing against Jordan, in fact I like him.  But there are tons
of roles models just as good (some even better) than Michael Jordan shilling
Gatorade.

We need a few more nuclear physicists, and a few more medical wizards who
might cure some of these diseases around today.  We could use a few more
people who can just read and write and perhaps even take a modicum of
commen sense into that Zoo we call Congress.

Personally, I'd opt for the Doctors rather than another slamma jamma
hoops star.....


'Saw

    
    Re: other role models
    
    Can't you just picture an ad showing a dusty street in some poverty
    stricken corner of the world, and from out of one of the run-down
    houses comes a robed female figure;  the camera begins with the hi-top
    pumps sticking out from beneath the hem, then pans slowly to the
    smiling face of Mother Theresa herself, swigging from a half-gallon
    bottle of Gatorade.  Now thats how to use a role model in advertising.
    
    Dickstah
    

    Get real folks.  Americans have always idolized sports heros.  Why is
    it Jordan is all-of-a-sudden being picked on?  
    
    That 99.9% of kids in American would like to be like him is obvious. 
    He's rich.  He's famous.  He's smart.  He's talented.  He's
    well-spoken.  He's humble.  He's played for Dean.
    
    Personally I'd take all-of-the-above long before I'd take the headaches
    that go along with becoming a doctor.  Besides, last I checked there
    was no shortage of egghead nerdy nuclear physicists.  What there *is* a
    shortage of is roll models for inner-city kids, and Jordan fits the
    bill better than anybody *I* can think of ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    If Michael Jordan being a sports hero inspires kids to stay off drugs,
    stay out of trouble, do well in school and go to college to pursue a
    degree and a career then fine, I have no problem with that.
    
    If Michael Jordan being a sports hero inspires kids to try to be just
    like him as a person then that's OK too.
    
    If Michael Jordan being a sports hero inspires kids to count on a
    career in pro sports then that's wrong because most kids who try for a
    pro career won't make it and if they do, the odds are that their career
    won't be for very long.  Unfortunately, that's how a role model like
    Jordan will more likely inspire kids and that's not good.  That's why
    he's being bashed.
    
    An athlete like Michael Jordan should inspire kids like this "I know I
    made it but the odds were against me and they will be against you too. 
    If you want to emulate me, emulate the effort that got me here, channel
    that effort into academics and play the game for recreation.  Don't
    make it your whole life and make sure you have something to fall back
    on for the day when sports ends for you because it will end, long
    before the productive part of your life is over."  That sort of
    statement coming from a Michael Jordan will make more of a difference
    and be better for more kids in the long run.
    
    John 

    RE: role models
    
    Especially that new Hanes commercial with him, his dad, his wife, and
    the red underwear.  Next thing you know every kid will want to wear
    red girly-mon panties!

    Saw, Chris and John H. all hit on what I was saying.  I figured some
    folks would all of a sudden figure I was bashing Mr. Jordan.  The
    commercial has some shots of Jordan playing hoops with kids.  And of
    Jordan playing hoops.  Fine.  But in the scheme of things, Jordan the
    Hoop player (and to placate Mr. NC Sensitive, Chris - all sports
    figures) is not the best role model.  Why?  Because the chances of
    making it as a hoop star are extremely minimal.
    
    As for Chris "nerdy Doctor types" I should remind him that while those
    with money and especially those in nice cushy suburbs have plenty of
    doctors, the US has a shortage in rural areas and in some inner city
    areas.  (Another rathole, but some folks caint get basic services, but
    others can get breast augmentation and other petty services...)
    
    If the commercial played on Mr. Jordan's college degree, his taking
    care of his family, etc... then it would be better.  These commercials
    are not geared for older folks who 'know' the real Michael.  They are
    geared for the folks who know him for sticking his tongue out, wearing
    black sneakers, shaving his haid, and slamma jamming.   That's not a
    great role model.  The song is 'Be just like Mike...'
    
    And for those of us who are old enough, we know that Mike can be nasty
    at times...
    
    JD

    I can see it now...2 7yr old kids... He man I just picked up a pack
    of nobel piece prize cards want to trade some... No way man I have 
    that whole set Im currently collecting PHD cards...WOW...
    
    Get real this will not happen and if you want to know who fault it is
    that sports people are idelized Id say sports is a good place to start.
    Were the ones who watch the game, buy sport goods, pay the high ticket
    prices and therefore create the old Supply and Demand.  Our entire
    society is to blame...
    
    Jordan does stay in school commercials, he does dont do drugs
    commercials and coke had a commercial with his family and now haynes
    has a commercial with his family.  What more do you want, jeff dahmar
    commercials.
    
    IF we as a country did not give out sports scholarships, did not pay
    HUGE $$$ for athlete's, then kids would concentrate more on there
    acedemics and play sports for fun.  
    
    But this is not how things work, we as a society have have put too much
    into sports, so why not have someone who is known and respected be a
    role model.  If you can implement a better way, YOU have my support.
    
    							M_Air_Brooks

As usual, another reply that is a sterling example of logical thought,
carefully exposited ideas leading to a perfectly logical conclusion...

Read what we said, and then tell us that a) we're bashing Jordan, and
b) we want kids running around trading Nobel Peace prize cards.

Gatorade is to blame because they are cravenly trying to obtain more $$$
by cashing in on the phenomenal hoops ability of Jordan.


The people that *I'd* like to see be role models are the athletes that ABC
highlights sometimes that have high GPAs yet still managed to play varsity
ball.

'Saw

    Sorry to introduce a tangental type blip into a real good
    circular-logic rathole but I felt this was very,very important
    (especially for ACC Chris) ;^)
    
    
    
    
    SNL 25th season kicks off on Sept 28 and the special guest
    is none other than the deity hisself,  Mr. Michael "air" Jordan!!!
    
    I'm sure Chris caint wait to go home tonight and program his vcr for
    that key event!  Anybody else care to sign up and take the baby-blue
    pledge????
    
    schlep etc., etc.
    
    Kev
    

    Mr. Brooks -
    
    As usual, you are taking this way too personally.  I know its hard to
    handle the thought that some folks treat sports idols like normal human
    beings, and not like demi-Gods.
    
    However, in a society were huge proportions of kids - especially
    minority kids - think that they will have pro sports careers (and I'm
    talking high school age - not 7 year olds) - then there is a BIG
    problem.
    
    Last year, a study found that 43% of Negro high school males thought
    they were going to have pro sports careers.  The actual percentage is
    extremely lower (by contrast, the number was 14% for white high school
    males...)
    
    So, its fine to have sports heros, we all did as kids - however, the
    line of reality has to be drawn at an early age - and energies put into
    preparing kids for the reality of life - not for the false hopes of
    'being just like Mike' and making millions shilling products and slamma
    jamming.  
    
    And why I don't see kids trading Nobel Peace cards - it would be nice
    if kids knew what the Nobel prizes were....
    
    JD

Da Nobel prize...  

Dats the 13 million you still make agin Mike Tyson even if he put you
out before da bell.....


[many 8^)]

> As usual, another reply that is a sterling example of logical thought,
> carefully exposited ideas leading to a perfectly logical conclusion...

Spare us the intellectual snobbery.  Brooks brought up the key point
to this whole discussion.  Namely, that 'Being Like Mike' means much
more than just being the worlds greatest basketball player.  It means
getting an education and being free from drugs, both of which are subjects
Jordan has been outspoken about.  


> Gatorade is to blame because they are cravenly trying to obtain more $$$
> by cashing in on the phenomenal hoops ability of Jordan.

Hah!  Gatorade to blame?  Ya gotta be kidding.  Gatorade is paying Mike
a ton of money to promote their product, just like thousands of other
companies have paid thousands of other celebrities mega-thousands of
dollars to promote their product.  It's called 'Free Enterprise', and
it's The American Way.  There's nothing wrong with it.

The trouble you folks are having is a failure to recognize that youthful
adoration with Jordan (or any other sports figure) to the point where
they plan on having a pro sports career is a *symptom* of the problem,
not *THE* problem.  The problem is a breakdown in the family unit, plain
and simple.  Inner-city kids have no role models (in most cases their
fathers are long gone) and hence are reaching for a way out.  In many
cases, Pro Sports, however remote the likelihood, is perceived as the
only possibility.  

To lay this problem at the feet of Jordan is ridiculous.  He's endorsing
a product just like so many other people.  He's a terrific role model.
He's leading by example by maintaining a solid family life.  He's an
outspoken proponent AGAINST drugs and FOR education.  What more would
you have him do???  


> The people that *I'd* like to see be role models are the athletes that ABC
> highlights sometimes that have high GPAs yet still managed to play varsity
> ball.

Are you implying that Jordan failed in this regard?  How do you know he 
didn't have a high GPA?  
    

> If the commercial played on Mr. Jordan's college degree, his taking
> care of his family, etc... then it would be better.  

Better for who?  Gatorade ain't shelling out millions for a community
service ad.  Let's not be so naive.  The fact is, though, that Jordan's
image is one of pro-eduction/anti-drug/pro-family, and that's undoubtedly
the reason he's bringing down the HUGE commerical bucks.
    

> And for those of us who are old enough, we know that Mike can be nasty
> at times...

Interesting observation that is right on the mark.  Jordan is an outright
ferocious competitor who hates to lose.  Matt Doherty repeated a story
during the NBA finals that I'd heard before about Jordan losing in pool
when he was a freshman and getting *unbelievably* upset.  He hates to lose
in anything, whether it's ping pong, the NBA finals, or some pick-up
game with a cocky HS kid.  

I'm not saying this is necessarily a characteristic to be admired, but
it certainly is a fact about his personality.


- ACC Chris
    

    Chris -
    
    In the commercial I watched, I'd have no idea that Mr. Jordan hada
    degree, was anti-drug, or cared for his family.  I see him bouncing a
    ball with kids, and playing in a bulls uniform.  And the "wanna be like
    Mike:"
    
    Now, wouldn't it be great  if Gatorade did a commercial showing Jordan
    (after leaving school as a hired gun to get his millions in the NBA ;-) 
    ) wearing a cap and gown with a diploma, with kids singing "Wanna be
    like Mike" - a commercial where Mr. Jordan has no hoop identity - no
    sneakers, no jackets, no balls, no slamma jammas.
    
    That would be great.
    
    You assume that the age that those commercials are geared to - 8 - 14
    or so know all about the non-hoops Jordan.  Sure some do - but I'd bet
    ya a year's salary taht most of them no nothing about Jordan the
    person.
    Heck, most ADULTS and sports fans don't know anything about him.
    (Except of course you and Brooks, who know howmany times he wipes after
    a poop ;-)  )
    
    Advertising helps in causing the problems - its a symptom.  To deny
    that is to be too naive - or just another happily blind surburbanite.
    
    JD

>Spare us the intellectual snobbery.  Brooks brought up the key point
>to this whole discussion.  Namely, that 'Being Like Mike' means much
>more than just being the worlds greatest basketball player.  It means
>getting an education and being free from drugs, both of which are subjects
>Jordan has been outspoken about.  

Brooks totally, illogically, and complete missed our point.  You know it,
I know it, the whole f___ing world knows it.  If you took off your baby
blue glasses and watched those commericals, you'd know that the entire
thrust of them is that Michael Jordan is a damn good basketball player
who commands millions for his performances.

There is nothing, zilch, zero, (not even 1 for 31) in those commercials
to indicate that a kid should stay drug free, and stay in school.
Kids equate Mike with basketball and mondo bucks....  Nothing wrong with
that, but there's more to life that being a slamma jamma hoopster with
millions of dollars in yer pocket.


>Hah!  Gatorade to blame?  Ya gotta be kidding.  Gatorade is paying Mike
>a ton of money to promote their product, just like thousands of other
>companies have paid thousands of other celebrities mega-thousands of
>dollars to promote their product.  It's called 'Free Enterprise', and
>it's The American Way.  There's nothing wrong with it.


Take it in context.  In the issue at hand here, it's not Jordan who's
at fault, but Gatorade for displaying the picture that they want to 
get across.  

Just because thousands of companies pay tons of money to a lot of athletes
doesn't mean that their commercials are always socially responsible.


I like what JD said.  If Mike did a simple commercial about staying in
school, staying drug free, and giving everything your best shot, then
it would make more of a statement...  


'Saw

>Nothing wrong with that, but there's more to life that being a slamma jamma
>hoopster with millions of dollars in yer pocket.

yeah there's women, wine and songs....

    Jordan does do (for Nike I think) an ad telling kids to stay in school. 
    Look at the whole picture, not just one sponsor/ad.

    re .175:
    
    Yes, it is a Nike ad.  Mars Blackman (Spike Lee) asks Jordan what makes
    him jump so high (or something to that effect), and Jordan states some
    complicated law of physics.  Mars then asks Jordan "where did you
    learn that?", and as Jordan responds "In school", the camera pans and
    Mars and Jordan are in the midst of a classroom.  Great ad...
    
    
    py                                                      

Maybe this is obvious, but it would be different if the thrust of the commercial
weren't "I wanna be etc.".  If it were a simple "Michael drinks Gatorade" or 
something, that would be different.  Unless they have changed since I was one,
kids are going to go to the playground, put on their best slamma jamma move, and
shout "I wannna be like Mike", and think nothing of diplomas family, etc.

=Bob=

    
    	I just hope I can teach my children what is right and wrong, cause
    I sure don't want to leave that up to Mr. Jordan or any commercials.
    Gatorade is doing what they want to do with that commercial, selling
    gatorade.  It's the American way, use what ever sells.  That fault
    doesn't belong to gatorade, it belongs to Americans.   Why the hell are
    we picking on Mike when we have a low life like Howard Stern on TV?
    
    Kat

Okay everyone READ MY LIPS.

I'm not picking on Mike.  I'm not picking on Mike.  I'm not picking on Mike.

I think Michael Jordan is a fine athelte, I *love* the Nike Commercial.
His views on that are great, and I think he's a fine person.

What I'm saying is that I think the Gatorade ad is just a craven attempt
to make money without thinking about the message that's getting across.

Parents are horrendously important, but have any of you read the latest
statistics on how long children spend in front of the Glass Teat every day?
Quite a bit of time.  Those "commercials" are influencing young kids.

Hey, even a simple "Stay in School" at the end of the Gatorade commercial
would make everything tons better...


'Saw

    Could someone please explain to me what's wrong with wanting to play
    hoops like Michael Jordan?!  And while you're at it, please explain to
    me why every commerical Jordan makes is expected to be a public service
    message?  (All other athletes/celebrities are apparently exempt from
    this requirement, BTW.)
    
    Gawd.  With all the raunchy filthy crap on TV today, factors that have
    contributed GREATLY to many of the horrors of the modern day (non)
    family, I find it incredible that a clean-cut Jordan (whose image is
    untarnished and is far beyond simply that of a great hoopster - hence
    his top $$ draw from Madison Avenue) is being targeted simply for
    stating the obvious: That Kids Wanna Be Like Mike.  
    
    Unreal.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>
>    Could someone please explain to me what's wrong with wanting to play
>    hoops like Michael Jordan?!  And while you're at it, please explain to
>    me why every commerical Jordan makes is expected to be a public service
>    message?  (All other athletes/celebrities are apparently exempt from
>    this requirement, BTW.)

Nothing's wrong with that.

As to our expectations, I see it this way.  When you're top shelf quality
people expect more of you.  I see Jordan as a quality person.  The 
report they did on him on 60 Minutes a few years ago showed me that.

I'd expect more from him than from Jose "MeMeMeMeMeIIIIIIMeMEMEMEME"
Canseco.

Again, read my lips.  I'm not bashing Mike.  Granted, he might have had
some creative say in the commercial, but then again maybe not.


>    Gawd.  With all the raunchy filthy crap on TV today, factors that have
>    contributed GREATLY to many of the horrors of the modern day (non)
>    family, I find it incredible that a clean-cut Jordan (whose image is
>    untarnished and is far beyond simply that of a great hoopster - hence
>    his top $$ draw from Madison Avenue) is being targeted simply for
>    stating the obvious: That Kids Wanna Be Like Mike.  

And our problem with that is, as JD has eloquently stated, that most kids
see that as a pro hoops career.  We as adults can make the value judgements
and comparisons, and say, yeah, Jordan's a quality person, but how many
kids give two shits that Jordan is drug free.  They will see it and wanna
be slamma jamma hoopsters to make tons of $$$$.....

JMHO,
'Saw

    
    	OK, you're not picking on Mike, but what makes this comercial any
    different from most of the others we see today?  Aren't they all just
    trying to make money?  How many of these companies really give a shit
    about our children?  No, I mean REALLY?!?                        
    
    
    Kat

    > most kids see that as a pro hoops career.
    
    Perhaps so, but why lay the blame (or at least responsibility to
    correct it) at the feet of someone whose pro-education/anti-drug 
    commericals have reached more kids than just about any other 
    athlete/celebrity.
    
    This is where your argument crumbles quicker than the LA Dodgers lead
    in the NL West.  (Braves are tied for first in the 'L' column, folks!)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    1.  Parents have the responsibility to teach their children right from
    wrong, bad from evil and point them on the path to righteousness. 
    Parents also have the responsibility to teach their children that just
    because athlete X or movie star Y is selling a product or is admirable
    is his/her chosen career, that:
    
    A.  That person isn't necessarily an admirable person
    B.  The odds of being in the same career field as that person are
    unbelievably long.
    C.  Admire the effort that got them to where they are and if you want
    to emulate anything, emulate that.
    
    2.  Many children have absentee parents or parents who otherwise
    abdicate their responsibilities.  In that case, if a child is looking
    for a role model, I'd much rather have that child have Michael Jordan
    for a role model than 99% of the potential, recognizable role models
    out there.  I wish doctors, lawyers, scientists, writers, poets and so
    on were more recognizable as role models but they aren't and that's
    reality.
    
    3.  Celebrities and the companies who hire these celebrities to push
    their products have certain responsibilities that go along with this
    role.  Said celebrities and companies must recognize that along with
    the marketability comes the fact that the celebrity will be held up as
    a role model.  The role model and the company therefore have
    responsibilities - the stay in school, stay off drugs, admire what it
    takes to get the career and not the career itself - you know, those
    types of messages.
    
    4.  I believe the more visible the role model is then the higher the
    responsibility for doing so.  Michael Jordan is arguably the most
    visible and positive role model there is for lots of kids who come from
    these dysfunctional families therefore he has the biggest
    responsibility to do these sorts of things.  Magic Johnson is a close
    second.  Athletes have a responsibility to not only teach kids the
    positive messages but to also teach them the odds of making it to where
    they are.
    
    NOTE THAT NONE OF THE ABOVE IS TO BE CONSTRUED AS A BASHING OF MICHAEL
    JORDAN.  I LIKE MICHAEL JORDAN.
    
    In conclusion:
    
    I don't and never have agreed with the task of athletes as role models. 
    They have no greater responsibility to stay off drugs and so on than
    any of us.  If you're going to cast them in the job as role model then
    they have the responsibility to teach kids about education, staying off
    drugs and then above all, do not count on having the same type of
    athletic career as I did.  Strive for it, yes.  Put the effort in, yes. 
    Learn from it and use it get the education you so desperately need
    because you have a better chance of needing the education than in
    making it in the NBA or NFL.
    
    Now, ACC Chris, tell me - where did I bash Michael Jordan?
    
    John

>    Perhaps so, but why lay the blame (or at least responsibility to
>    correct it) at the feet of someone whose pro-education/anti-drug 
>    commericals have reached more kids than just about any other 
>    athlete/celebrity.
    
C'mon Chris.  What do I have to do, ruck over yo haid???? 8^)

I'm not picking on Mike.  I'm grumbling about the commercial.
I've repeatedly stated my views on Michael Jordan (jeez, I mean, I've
even got his poster up in my room, right next to the one of Christina
Applegate!!!!!)

I'm picking on the commercial.

You're the one who keeps insisting I'm picking on Mike.

'Saw

    You state that you don't agree with the task of athletes as role
    models, yet also say that Jordan has a greater responsibility than
    any other athlete.  I'm confused.
    
    I'm also confused about the implicit criticism of Jordan for his
    'I Wanna Be ...' spot, despite the documented fact showing Michael
    doing very visible commericals for Nike that are
    pro-education/anti-drug.
    
    Given the fact that this is the first Gatorade commerical that Jordan
    has done, isn't it conceivable that in the future they'll include some
    of these 'public service' type messages as well?  Or do you think that
    *every* commerical that Jordan is in should be of the 'community
    service' variety?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    I always wondered just how much impact sports/celebrity advertising
    really has on sales.  Like, does Coke really show an X % increase after
    signing Michael or Paula Abdul?  Does the rent-a-car company really
    rent more cars because O.J. runs to their counter in an airport?  Do
    rednecks really buy more Penzoil for their pickup trucks because
    Madonna uses it in her limo?
    
    The only items I can ever remembering buying which was related to a
    celebrity endorsement was a Ted Williams model bat and a Davy Crocket
    lunchbox, and that was a long time ago.  I agree that heroes sell a lot
    of stuff for kids (see Ninja Turtles), but do they have much impact on
    mature adults?
    
    Dickstah
    

    You're confused because I'm a bit confused.  Let me try to explain:
    
    My whole argument against athletes being role models comes from drug
    testing because I've never felt that athletes should be held to any
    higher standard for their off-the-field behavior than the rest of us. 
    Thus, I was very much against mandatory drug testing for athletes when
    you and I weren't going to be tested.  Of course, I am against drug
    testing for anybody anyway.
    
    I was then asked - what about athletes as role models?  I then argued
    that athletes shouldn't be held up to be role models anyway because
    parents should teach their kids that an athlete isn't necessarily
    someone to emulate just because he's an athlete, that the odds of
    making it just like that athlete are so high it's not realistically
    worth pursuing and that if anything is to be admired, it's the effort
    it took to get him there - and channel that effort into education.
    
    Recognizing that athletes are going to be held up to be role models
    because the world isn't perfect (ie, with either absentee or neglectful
    parents abdicating their responsibilities to their children), I would
    then like to say that if an athlete is going to accept the endorsement
    money that comes along with being a star, then that athlete has a
    responsibility to balance the ads he appears in with public service
    type stuff - the staying in school, the stay off drugs, that sort of
    thing.  I also feel that the more visible the athlete is, then the more
    responsibility he has to do these things.
    
    Take Robert Parish for instance.  He does no ads that could be
    construed to be aiming at children.  He keeps a very low profile, he
    says very little, is reluctant to give interviews and all he really
    does is show up, play the game and go home.  He has very little
    responsibility, I feel, to do anything for anybody, because he's not
    trading on his fame to make extra money.
    
    Now, contrast that with someone like Michael Jordan.  The following
    statement is not a bash at Michael Jordan but to be blunt about it, he
    is trading on his fame to make money.  If all he did during his free
    time was go out and play golf, then the only responsibility he would
    have would be to improve his handicap.  But he doesn't.  He has become
    a very visible spokesman for a lot of products.  There is nothing wrong
    with that, but if he's going to do so then he has a responsibility to
    give back to the community.  He is not responsible for solving the
    world's problem nor does he have to make every ad into a public service
    ad, but I do feel that along with the ads he does, he and the companies
    he promotes have an equal responsibility to do an equal amount of
    public service work.  In other words, if he's got an ad showing himself
    soaring through the air with a basketball with the greatest of ease
    then he and that company should also run an ad talking about the odds
    of making it to the NBA.
    
    The above paragraph goes for any athlete who trades on his name to make
    money.  I don't mean to single out Michael Jordan but he is a very
    charismatic and visible spokesman.  Marketing surveys have shown him to
    be the #1 choice among companies who want to use an athlete to endorse
    someone.  I am not bashing Michael Jordan for what he does or doesn't
    do because I don't know.  I've never seen the Gatorade ad.  All I'm
    trying to say is that if he's going to use his basketball skill to sell
    products then he should be telling children about the odds of making it
    in sports and selling the value of an education with the same effort
    with which he sells Nikes, Gatorade and Wheaties.
    
    How's that?
    
    John

    re: .188
    
    I have no problem with that.  My entire point (as Brooks pointed out
    long ago) is simply that Michael Jordan *DOES* do many public service
    spots (i.e. anti-drug/pro-education) and is therefore completely
    excempt from the type of criticism he's receiving in here.  In fact, he
    should be held up and APPLAUDED for his efforts in this regard.
    
    Now folks are criticizing the Gatorade at, but remember that this is
    only the first one he's done.  I would anticipate that in the future
    you'll see Jordan doing something similar to what he's doing with Nike. 
    This first commerical could be looked at as a 'hook' to grab kids
    attention ("I wanna be like Mike the basketball player") and the later
    on delivering the more subtle pro-education/anti-drug message.  ("I
    wanna be like Mike and get my Geography degree, preferrably at North
    Carolina").  This kindof approach would, IMO, be far more effective
    than clubbing kids over the head with the education/drug thing, and I'd
    almost guarantee that Gatorade has plans to do some ads like this in
    the future, just like Nike.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    I have no problem with that.  My entire point (as Brooks pointed out
>    long ago) is simply that Michael Jordan *DOES* do many public service
>    spots (i.e. anti-drug/pro-education) and is therefore completely
>    excempt from the type of criticism he's receiving in here.  In fact, he
>    should be held up and APPLAUDED for his efforts in this regard.

Now, Chris, if you *really* think that **anyone** is ***completely***
exempt from criticism in SPORTS, you need yo haid examined. 8^)
    


>    Now folks are criticizing the Gatorade at, but remember that this is
>    only the first one he's done.  I would anticipate that in the future
>    you'll see Jordan doing something similar to what he's doing with Nike. 

When you come right down to it, (ie the nuts and bolts, dollar and cents)
Dickster put it best.

I don't buy Gatorade because Michael shills it, I don't buy it because
it's on the sidelines of every NFL game...  

If I buy Gatorade, it's because it's either a) cheaper than 10K at the
grocery store, or b) it's what cold in the cooler at the convenience
store.  Otherwise I buy 10K cause I like the way it tastes better...


Ain't no way in da world that Gatorade is gonna get this white man's
butt high enough to slamma jamma....


8^) 8^) 8^)

'Saw

    re: Dickstah and Davey Crockett
      Come on 'Fess up', you had a coonskin cap too, didn't ya?
                                      Denny  ;^)
    
    

    Heck, *I* wanna be like Mike.  I could use the extra money.
    
    I think companie are looking more to make sure you recognize their
    brand on the shelf more than have you say "Gee, Mike Jordan drinks
    Gatorade, I should too."  People are more apt to buy something they are
    familiar with than try something new.  Sometimes the glitz of the
    commercial backfires and people don't remember what's being sold.  A
    good case in point was some of the old Alka Seltzer ads.  People
    remembered the slogans like "I can't believe I ate the whole thing",
    but couldn't remember which product it was trying to sell.

    Chris -
    
    Please, for once - just once, forget the UNC baby blue bias that blinds
    you.  
    
    I also like Michael Jordan.  I like the NIKE ads (also note, Chris,
    that last time I LOOKED Nike and Gatorade were two different companies,
    unless there's a new "Air Citrus Cooler" I missed).
    
    Comments were directed at the GATORADE commercial.   Did that sink
    through?  Understand.  G-A-T-O-R-A-D-E no N-I-K-E.   Get it?
    
    And the problem that I had with it was the "Wanna be like Mike" - a
    catchy, sing-song ad slogan that will easily be picked up by kids.
    The commercial does not show Michael, the savior of the free world, the
    man who causes a run to the Lacquer store, the fantastic, super,
    wonderful, PERFECT, fault free man.  It shows the hoops Jordan.
    
    And if would be great if folks could grow up to be just like Mike in
    the hoops world.  Every college team would have their own Jordan. 
    However, this will NEVER, EVER, EVER happen.
    
    The discussion was originally intended to discuss Jordan's GATORADE
    commercial.
    
    Not the Nike Commercials.  I think the Jordan/Mars Blackman commercials
    were some of the best commercials ever produced.  Inventive, funny,
    entertaining...
    
    I would not want other athletes to be role models either.  I can only
    think of a handful that would be.  Unfortunately, many aren't stars -
    they are guys like Rory Sparrow - who has done more for inner city
    youth than Jordan ever has - but Rory is a simple hoops plaer (or was,
    since he's out of the league now, I believe).   
    
    Now, if Michael could forget golf and play for the gold, things would
    be really great...
    
    JD

    
    >    re: Dickstah and Davey Crockett
    >  Come on 'Fess up', you had a coonskin cap too, didn't ya?
                                      Denny  ;^)
    
    Yep.  And speaking of 'Fess', whatever happened to the guy who played
    Davey, and didn't he look *remarkably* like Dan'l Boone on the TV show.
    Say, come to think of it, has anyone ever seen Davy Crockett and Dan'l
    Boone together???  You don't think........ Nah, couldn't be.
    
    Dickstah
    

RE: Advertising

The whole purpose of advertising is to lure the MARGINAL buyer to your product,
rather than your competition's.  The assumption is that there will be some 
people (not just kids) who will be influenced by a 'star' endorsement.  It may 
not work for 'Saw of Mac, but the companies wouldn't launch a multimillion 
dollar endorsement style ad campaign if their research didn't show that some 
of their target market would be influenced by it.

BTW - A chemist/engineer/marathoner friend of mine once explained why Gatorade
      was no better than water to drink while you are playing/running/etc.  
      Something about Polymers being too large to to get into your system fast
      enough, or something.  He said 10K was better, and that Exceed was the 
      best.

=Bob=

>BTW - A chemist/engineer/marathoner friend of mine once explained why Gatorade
>      was no better than water to drink while you are playing/running/etc.  
>      Something about Polymers being too large to to get into your system fast
>      enough, or something.  He said 10K was better, and that Exceed was the 
>      best.

Bob,

You're the second person who's said this.  I really like 10K.

I've never had EXCEED but I've heard that when mixed according to the 
directions on the package, it's really somewhat thick.

Any comments?

EXCEED is what they most often have on the course during marathons.  I usually 
start drinking it instead of water about half way through the race.  I think it 
makes a big difference in how soon you 'hit the wall' or if you do at all.  They
also make a high carbohydrate drink that can help you carbo load.  It is good 
for people who can't eat before they exercise, but could use the extra carbs.
 
I've never mixed it myself, but I've also heard that if you use the proportions 
they tell you to on the label it comes out strong.  The danger with that is that
if it is too strong it can upset your stomach.

The other thing about EXCEED is that I've never seen it in supermarkets, and it
is quite expensive in sporting goods stores, etc.  

Gatorade was the first one on the market as a fluid replacement drink, and I 
suspect it is based on old technology.

=Bob=

    Wow This is Rathole...But I did start it...Sorry...But Ok Ive got
    an Idea picture this...
    
    Your Kid (or someones kid if you dont have one) is watching tv...On
    Comes Michael Air JOrdan...I wanna be like me da da da da da Playing
    B-ball with kids slamma jamming the whole bit ...Commercial ends kids
    thinking to himself ..WOULDNT IT BE GREAT TO BE LIKE MIKE...ALl of a
    sudden on comes Nike's Stay in school dont do drugs commercials....Were
    Talking IMPACT.
    
    The way I look at it is if a kid see's this commercial (Gatorade) 10
    times and does start thinking along the lines of Be Like Mike, that 1
    time he see's the Stay in School or Dont do Drugs commercial may have
    a greater impact.  Although I think Jordan should do some commercials
    that show how hard it was to make it in the NBA and all sports should
    stress the near imposibilites of making it big in sports....But again
    we pay there salaries :-)
    							M_Air_Brooks
    
    Oh and by the way I dont buy any products based on who indorses them
    Although Weaties and Total are the only cereals I eat, I only buy them
    when there on sale and I have a COUPON. :-)

    
    You guys are too much!  The Gatorade thing is a *great* commercial.
    Not only does it accomplish what was intended for the advertiser,
    to sell product, but I can't help but watch the thing without getting
    something positive from it.  In part because of what we already know 
    about Michael Jordan and what he represents, the commercial is 
    uplifting.  In Jordan's interactions with kids, his smile, his 
    mannerisms, his entire personality, what the average guy and even kids 
    take from the spot is that, dammit, this Michael Jordan guy is a good 
    person after all (whether he is or not in real life, when you get 
    right down to it), regardless of his athletic skills!  Why do you
    think we don't see "I Wanna Be Like Mike (Tyson)" or "I Wanna Be
    Like Jose" commercials?!  They make a lot of money, too, don't they?
    
    What you guys are doing is insulting the intelligence of most of
    the American public and especially inner city folks by implying that 
    *they*-- but certainly not *you*-- are mindless automatons subject 
    to every irresponsible suggestion from the advertising moguls. 
    I don't think that's the case at all.  Sure, some problems do need
    reinforcing, but I don't think we need round-the-clock, heavy "this 
    is your mind on drugs"-style TV ads.  There's more than one way
    to go about something, and I can guarantee you that a constant
    authoritarian pounding sure doesn't work...
    
    In short, I think the Gatorade commercial is a perfect depiction
    of the little bit of joy a person like Michael Jordan might bring
    into the world.  Is it going to change the world much one way or
    the other?  No.  There are bigger windmills to tilt at, folks...
    
    glenn
    

    > What you guys are doing is insulting the intelligence of most of
    > the American public . . .
    
    "You'll never go wrong underestimating the intelligence of the American
    public."
    
                        -- Madison Avenue axiom
    
    Sid

 great rebuttal there Glenn.

 mike

    Glenn -
    
    There could be worse commercials.  As an inner-city, low income kid
    (although I happen to be caucasian), I do have problems with that ad
    (and many, many others).   A whole generation is being lost in the
    inner cities, and IMO, commericals like that help to keep the cycle
    closed.   Granted, in the scheme of things, the gatorade commercials
    are way down on the list (really way down) - but it is an easy target
    because it is shown so much.
    
    JD

    JD - find somethin' else to bitch about, willya!?!  ;-)
    
    I agree with you 100%, Glenn!  Great job!
    
    NAZZ

    Invisa Bill (I love that name) was signed to a 3 year deal......
    The starting 5 from last years championship team will no doubt
    be starting again.  What happen to Hopson anyway...Maybe hell wake
    up this year and help this team get better, as if they needed to
    get any better.
    
    	Graig Hodges + Bill Cartwright + Dennis Hopson to NY for Ewing
    
    	:-)...Everyone else was talking a trade hows that one, Id 
    	personally dont like ewing but cant imaging how many rings
    	him and michael could collect...
    							M_Air_Brooks

 
 
	CHICAGO (UPI) -- Michael Jordan is a dictatorial superstar
       who is disliked by his teammates and ridiculed behind his back.
	So claims a new book about the Chicago Bulls and last year's
       championship season. The book, ``The Jordan Rules,'' was written
       by Sam Smith, a sports writer for the Chicago Tribune. Advance
       copies were obtained by the rival Chicago Sun-Times.
	Smith paints basketball's most breathtaking artist as a selfish
       and vindictive player.
	In one incident Jordan allegedly warned teammates not to pass to
       center Bill Cartwright in the final four minutes of a game.
	``If you do,'' Jordan is quoted as saying, ``you'll never get the
       ball from me.''
        In the closing minutes of the title-clinching game against the Los
       Angeles Lakers, Jordan supposedly was reluctant to pass to hot-shooting
       John Paxson. Coach Phil Jackson called timeout and pleaded in the 
       huddle for Jordan to find the open man.
	``M.J., who's open?'' Jackson asked.
	There was no answer.
	``Who's open?'' Jackson repeated, only louder.
	Again, no answer.
	 Jordan finally acknowledged Paxson was open and began feeding him the
        ball.
	 Another time, Jordan is said to have punched teammate Will Perdue in
        the head during practice.
	 The book says Jordan's teammates make fun of his scoring runs. As he
        would head for the basket time-and-time again, the other players would
        have trivial conversations on the court.
	The book is published by Simon and Schuster and is being shipped to
        bookstores this week. Jordan acknowledged seeing galley proofs.
	 ``A lot of things appeared that were said in confidence,'' he said.
	The book also chronicles the nocturnal adventures of Horace Grant and
        Scottie Pippen, among others, and addresses the worsening relationship
        between Jordan and Grant.
	 ``We've all been waiting for the book,'' Grant said. ``Everyone wants
        to see what's in it. The book will be a big test to see if we can get
        along.''
    

 Ho hum.   Big Eff-ing Deal.  All-World Mega SuperDuperStar isn't loved and
 adored by his oh-so-inferior Bulls supporting cast.   Boo hoo hoo ...
 
 Without Jordan, the rest of the Bulls have empty ring fingers and no
 playoff bonus mega-checks.   If they hate being on his team so much, then
 ask for an immediate trade to the T'Wolves or some other so-happy-together
 team.
 
 Geez, the old Charlie Finley Oakland A's used to beat the crap outta each
 other on the field, in the dugout, in the clubhouse, on the sidewalk, in
 the bars, ... all while winning three straight World Series.
 
 This ain't the Boy Scouts, fellas ...
 
 Bob Hunt

     re .206
  
     You're holding back, Bob. Tell us how you really feel and don't pull
     any punches.  
    

     [insert smiley face here]
    

    Anybody else read the SI article about Phil "da hacker" Jackson
    and his life?
    
    Pretty good but I gotta say that I've always like ol' Phil, especially
    because he was a member of the NY National Guard.  Big deal you say?
    Well, lemme tell ya.  A short while back, circa 1971, the NY Post
    office dudes went on strike.  Phil was activated & as a demonstration
    of protecting the constitution, he sorted mail.
    At that time, the NYS constitution had a bibbet that said anytime a
    member of the NY NG was federalized, as a reward, they'd get a year
    dropped off their 6 year conscription.  Phil got a_honorable release
    after 5 years and it was HIS LEAVING that created an opening for
    me!!!!!!
    Saved me from going to the land of GREAT GRASS, GREAT HASH, lousy
    times.  Instead, I defended Freeport, L.I. from enemy invasion.  ;^)
    
    Thanks Phil,  I owe ya!
    
    SGT. Kev
    

RE: .205

Michael Jordan is egotistical and selfish? Didn't he learn everything
from Dean?

TTom

                                    
    Sounds like one of those fraudulent, trumped-up exposes to me.  Other 
    stars in all sports who are "dictatorial" are known as leaders.  It 
    ain't a bible reading out there.
    
    glenn
    

Who wrote that book? Kitty Kelly? Gee a book about selfish profesional athletes
do tell..



Steve

    I didn't know that the fact that Mike Jordan is selfish and egotistical
    is news, I thought it was general knowledge.
    
    

    
    Is it just me, or is Michael Jordan fast becoming one of the most
    disliked figures (at least by the media) in sports?  Seems like
    every other day I pick up the paper and there's something in there
    about Michael missing this practice or that appearance, or that
    he should be doing so much more for society because he owes it to 
    us because of all the money he makes.  For a guy who by all 
    appearances is a devoted family man (which in the wake of the Magic 
    affair seems to be a prime criterion for role model status) and a 
    good guy, Jordan sure is under a lot of heat.  Maybe he should inject
    a little bit of nasty into his public personality like Laimbeer or 
    Barkley and people will see him as more human and like him more 
    (even if the way he appears is the way he really is). 
             
    Sure, Jordan's not camera shy, but I don't envy the guy's private 
    life.  The NBA personalities have definitely got it the worst...
    
    glenn
    

    Anyone ever hear that good news sells?  I haven't.  Sensationalism
    sells newspapers and magazines and broadcast time.
    
    It's a reversal of that old adage, where the media now says, "If you
    can't say something bad about someone, don't say anything."
    
    Maybe I missed it, so can someone tell me where and when Jordan said he
    wanted to become the best PERSON in the NBA?  And why do many of us
    blandly accept the opinions of writers and critics and reporters? 
    Sure, if you already like their subject, then you're readily going to
    accept the accolades for him/her.  Say you rate a guy as one of the
    best ever.  These "experts" then rate him as THE best ever.  Don't most
    of us now parrot that view?  It reinforces our own opinion, therefore
    it must be true.  
    
    It works in reverse, too.  We think a guy is not much of an athlete, 
    and when anyone writes that he is the worst, we agree with that opinion.  
    Afterall, it just goes to show how smart we are.  A nationally know
    "expert" agrees with us!  An ego boost, for sure.  
    
    So, if a guy happens to be having a bad day, which we all have, and
    becomes short-tempered with some writer who is asking silly and inane
    questions, we're gonna read how impolite or crude or rude he is.  Some
    other reporter will see that, and reach back into his memory bank and
    tell all about what had happened to him, too.  It doesn't matter that
    the subject may well be the best athlete in his field, his halo is now
    seen as tarnished.  This is the same halo that the media presented to
    him.  But if he doesn't kowtow to the media, they'll turn on him.
    
    I don't mean to castigate all media, there are some fine and fair
    reporters out there.  But the name of the game is selling, and good
    news just doesn't hack it in the long run.
    
    lEe

    Can someone from Chicago-land fill me in on what's going on with Scott
    Williams?  I read where he'd signed to play in Europe, and yet I saw
    him in street clothes during last nights game with the Pistons.
    
    thanks,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    	Didja see Jordan go after that loose ball in the crowd last
    night?  I'll take that action on my team anyday.  
    
    				/Don

    Hey JD, was that you writing into USA Today (under a false name)
    complaining about having to see MJ every where you turn?  ;^)

    I can't believe this!  Michael is PERFECT.  It is all LIES!  We all
    wanna be just like him!  He's the PERFECT role model.  He can do
    whatever he likes!  Other players have to live by codes and suffer
    judgements by fans and the media BUT NOT MICHAEL!
    
    Leave him alone.  The man is perfect.  The man is a GOD.  The Droods
    (TM) would dress up like him at Halloween.  I can't believe it!
    
    Only guys like Isiah and Bill and Charles and Moses and the like are
    egotistical and ball hogs!  Michael could bugger children in his  spare
    time - it is no one's business!  He's the best.  He's the greatest. 
    He's beyond criticism.  He's beyond reproach!
    
    LEAVE HIM ALONE.  DON"T READ THE BOOK.  DRINK GATORADE!
    
    JD
    
    (PS:  He gets everything he deserves.)

     JD, What the hell took you so long ??? I figured the minute I entered 
    the original note you'd be all over it like William Perry on a bucket
    of chicken. The minute I came across that tidbit I said to myself, "Self,
    this here piece of information is a lead pipe cinch to set JD to rant-
    ing and raving about that greatest basketball player that ever lived, 
    idol of millions and all-around good Joe, Michael Jordan." I just didn't 
    figure it would take nearly this long.
    
    [insert smiley faces where appropriate]
    

    Tommy -
    
    I LOVE MIKE JORDAN!   I realize he is the true supreme being!  I'll
    names my kid Jordan Devlin.  I'll snub whomever I damn well please.  IN
    fact - I don't plan on going to my next staff meeting - cuz I wanna be
    with my family instead!   i lIKE mike!!!  He GREAT!
    
    The cheerios got chucked this morning - only WHEATIES for my family.
    I've drank so much gatorade my urine is green.  I'm working on the
    liking Nike's though...
    
    The big bad media is trying to cut the man down!  It won't work - not
    with the millions of zombies like me chanting the Jordan-i-tudes!
    
    
    J(ordan)D

    Tommy,
    
    wanna save a few keystrokes & get immortalized in da process??
    
    Howabout (tm)'ing that sucker ISFWA?
    
    Don't it stand for "Insert Smiley Faces Where Appropriate"?????
    
    pleh ot dalg,
    Kev
    

    I forgot my beeper battery and didnt know what was going on.  basically
    all the statements made in here have been exactly what I would expect.
    
    Someone already said it best.  If you already dislike somebody, or some
    thing and all of a sudden someone writes a book about it.  Of course you
    will agree.  The only thing Im mad about is that I wasnt in position to
    write a book on strictly hear-say about a controversal subject and make
    millions of $$$$.   (Wrong place at the wrong time).  
    
    I guess it comes down to whats more news worthy (Or bitch worthy).  A
    player thats too big for his britches (1/2 the nba) or the players who
    admit to sleeping around, doing drugs or whatever.
    
    How badly were the decoder rings needed... Oh by the way the upset and
    forever fighting bulls are at 10-2, best record in the NBA.
    
    					M_shitloadofwork_Air_Brooks

    Well, poor Micheal got fouled the other night, and in a fit of rage,
    throw the ball right at Greg Anthoney of the Knicks.  Of course,
    Micheal didn't get called for any fouls.  He was retaliating for what
    was called a flagrant foul.  Isn't it something how when anyone but
    Michael throws the ball at another player, its an automatic technical -
    but not Michael. pat Riley got a T for yelling at the ref, who was
    scared to call a T on "Just Like".   Boy, most folks get fined for any
    type of retaliation....I guess the NBA should be renamed "Jordan
    Rules".
    
    
    Oh yeah, and somehow "Just Like" was linked to a coke dealer.  Nothing
    serious though.   I didn't read the whole story, cuz I know Just LIke
    can do no wrong, so it was probably just the Media making something up.
    
    JD

 Ole Michael's loosin it...it'll be interesting to see what Stern does or
 doesn't do about it....

 great comment by Lambieer a few notes over....

        
>    Oh yeah, and somehow "Just Like" was linked to a coke dealer.  Nothing
>    serious though.   I didn't read the whole story, cuz I know Just LIke
>    can do no wrong, so it was probably just the Media making something up.
    
    Well, if we use Isiah's precedent of lending money to a friend/coke 
    dealer/organized crime figure, there shouldn't be too much doubt what 
    the penalty'll be: nothing.
    
    glenn
    

        <<< OOBIE::OOBIE$DKB300:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOSTON_CELTICS.NOTE;1 >>>
                              -< BOSTON_CELTICS >-
================================================================================
Note 24.49                World Champion Chicago Bulls                  49 of 49
16421::HEISER "electric warrior/acoustic saint"      35 lines  16-DEC-1991 11:34
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Article 2860 of clari.sports.basketball:
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Money from Michael?
Date: 14 Dec 91 20:22:10 GMT
Priority: regular


	CHARLOTTE (UPI) -- A convicted cocaine dealer claims he received a
$57,000 loan from Michael Jordan, but federal prosecutors say he got it
from illegal activities.
	Investigators froze the money in James ``Slim'' Bouler's account on
Nov. 1, alleging he won the money in a golf match in Hilton Head, South
Carolina, according to a story in the Saturday's Charlotte Observer.
Records filed in Charlotte's U.S. District Court do not tell who he won
the money from.
	Bouler pleaded guilty in 1986 to selling and possession of cocaine.
He has been convicted of two probation violatons since then. Officials
say there is no evidence that Jordan knew about Bouler's past.
	Betting on golf is illegal in South Carolina and punishable with up
to six months in jail and a $1,000 fine.
	Bouler has filed documents in federal court saying the money came
from a loan from Jordan to build a driving range.
	Bouler, 40, runs the Golf-Tech Pro Shop in Monroe, N.C. and has
organized several charity golf tournments in the Charlotte area.
	U.S. Attorney Tom Ashcroft told the Observer Jordan is not a target
of the probe into Bouler.
	This office does not have an investigation underway on Michael
Jordan,`` said Ashcroft.
	Jordan has confirmed that he has known Bouler for ``four or five
years'' and that he has loaned him money.
	Bouler's attorney, James Wyatt of Charlotte, has filed with the court
copies of a certified-mail envelope from Jordan's management company,
Pro-Serv, and a cashier's check for $57,000.
	Jordan's agent at Pro-Serv, David Falk, said he was
    

    
    Great "slam" by Jordan after a steal last night.. made my entire
    night!!  The guy sure seems distracted this year.  
    
    /Jeff

     Christmas comes early for JD this year. Michael "The Man, The Myth, 
    The Legend" Jordan is SI's Sportsman Of the Year and graces this week's 
    cover. Yet another honor for the greatest player to ever play the game.
    

    
>    Christmas comes early for JD this year. Michael "The Man, The Myth, 
>    The Legend" Jordan is SI's Sportsman Of the Year and graces this week's 
>    cover. Yet another honor for the greatest player to ever play the game.
     
    I guess it'll pain JD to no end to see this.  (Still a subscriber,
    JD?  Act now, our operators are on duty.)  The worst thing about
    it is that, true to their tradition, SI will no doubt print all
    sorts of nice things about Michael Jordan, the caring family man.
    The monster craves, and the monster is fed!
    
    glenn
    
    

    
     The best part is that they've got a hologram-type picture of the
    man himself on the cover so JD can see his hero from every angle.
    
    
    

    Unfortunately JD's on vacation for a few weeks (?) so we're
    gonne be deprived of his "ACC Chris Worship notes" similiarities and
    I figure that he'll not be able to catch up on all the notes in ::SPO
    when he comes back and he just might not know about the SI award.
    
    How about, just be sure he finds out about it, everybody send JD
    a mailgram tellin him and follow it up with a copy of the SI article
    in the interoffice snail system?
    
    I'm sure he'd sport a tremendous woodie in appreciation of the 
    "Noters of Sports_91" Christmas gifts to him.
    
    just thinking of others, I remain
    Kev
    ;^)
    

    	Michael in 3D!  God I luv it!  If they took that kind of picture
    of Isiah you couldn't get the full effect because he's so shallow.
    
    				/Don

    /Don 
    
    I also heard he was only a two dimensional player.  They'd need 2D.
    ;-)
    
    Chip_RedKerr_Bach

         
  "Mike reminds me of a pizza. No, not just any pizza but a pepperoni
   pizza with extra cheese and when you get it the cheese is still
   bubbling hot and that smell is wafting right up at you and making your 
   mouth water and your stomach growl. Or maybe he's more like a bacon 
   double cheeseburger.  Yeah, that's it a bacon double cheese burger with 
   real cheddar cheese and with a large order of fries. Or maybe..." 
                               -Frank Layden

  "I get the same feeling watching Michael that I get when I'm reading
   Sartre's 'Being and Nothingness'." -Larry Bird

  "You see it's alot like rugby..." -Frank Way

  "I oughta kick his ass." -Isaiah Thomas

  "How can you give an award to a guy who wears brown shoes with
   a blue suit ?" -Pat Riley

   "Oooh, Michael is God! He's the greatest thing since sliced bread! He
   can snub the Prez or hang out with drug dealers and still get an award!
   I wanna be like Mike! Who doesn't ?"  -JD
    

    re .238
    
    HAHAAHHAHAAAAAAAA !!!!!!!!!
    
    re . Mike in hologram
    
    Where is Doug Ross when you need him ?
    
    
    
    Because I hear James Worthy is getting a 3-D cover too ! 
    
    Doc

    -2... Great note..Im still roolllinnggg... And to laugh after last
    nights game....Thats difficult.  Bulls where making out there X-mas
    lists and X-mas cards on the sideline... I swear they showed the
    chalkboard and The Coach was writing his x-mas list out... Jordan 
    was sending an autograph copy of the SI cover to his biggest fan -JD.
    
    They just didnt show up... Jordan missed a slam, maybe his first ever
    ....Definatly out to lunch metally on this game.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Either that or they felt bad for magic and gave the lakers a win for
    x-mas :-)   :-)   :-)   :-)
    
    
    On to NJ friday night
    
    								M_Air

See, it's a lot like rugby......

    Boy - you guys worry more about how I feel about JOrdan than I do.  
    Haven't picked up the mail yet - but I'll read it.  However, it warms
    my heart to know that still, after all these years, some of you don't
    have a clue about my Jordan feelings.  Never said he wasn't a great
    hoop player, one of the greatest ever (I don't label folks the greatest
    - impossible to judge....) - but mainly make fun of folks who go around
    with woodies everytime he farts - a noter a few back is the prime
    example.
    
    Sorry to disappoint guys - but I have better things to think about then
    how other Sports Noters will react to things.
    
    Ta-ta 
    
    JD

    Im not sure who you are refering to about getting a woodie every time
    he farts but seeing im proberbly the biggest bulls fan (note I said
    bulls fan not jordan fan) Ill assume you meant me.  Sports are a small
    part of my life but I have to take advantage of the fact that the bulls
    are finally on top and I can admit that the only reason they are there
    is due to jordan.  Everyone asks me why I became A bulls fan, while its
    too easy to like the celtics (being from massachusetts), dont care for
    the lakers/pistons/knicks so had to pick someone else.  I love the Bull
    on the bulls uniform (had channel WGN from 1985-1989) and started
    watching alot of bulls games (im not sure if it was WGN I just know it
    was a chicago channel that coverd 30+ games a year).  So No jordan is
    not god and No I dont Idiolize him, but with all the other athelets out
    there who get caught doing drugs, selling drugs, taking steroids,
    sleeping with prostitutes, sleeping around in general (catching aids)
    driving drunk, killing people etc...etc...etc... I feel pretty good
    about the fact that one of the greatest BBall players of all time is a
    pretty good human being as well (note not perfect), role model, well
    better than most if I had a child who was old enough idiolize(sp)
    someone Id have no problem with it being a jordan/bird over some drug
    doing stud.
    
    So think what you want, but if you want to put down athletes there's a
    huge list of athletes in front of jordan who deserve more attention
    from a negetive stand point.  Unless you condone (insert above list of
    things athletes have done in 91)....Have a Nice Day and a Happy New
    Year :-)
    
    							M_Air_Brooks

    well put  Air  brooks!
    
    dinz

    When did I ever say I didn't *like* Mike Jordan.  How can you *like*
    someone that you don't know?   
    
    ALl I've ever done is make the cardinal mistakes of not going ga-ga
    over everthing Jordan does.  To not fall all over myself whenever a new
    Mike commercial comes on.  That's it.  
    
    It is funny, if someone doesn't swallow the whole Madison Avenue image
    of someone, then they are assumed to *hate* someone.  Can't hate
    someone that you don't know - now can ya?
    
    As with all athlete's, I think its great when they do community
    service, etc - but then again, i think its great when ANYONE does
    community service.  It a zillion times more difficult for a working
    stiff with a family, fighting to stay ahead of the bills, to do
    volunteer work with the Special Olympics, or other groups, then some
    pampered millionaire with lots of time on his/her hands.  That's my
    opinion.  To me, those folks are the real heroes - the real role
    models, not the millionaires.  
    
    In a basketball sense, I stated numerous times the obvious - Jordan is
    one of the best ever.  Like all superstars he gets special treatment,
    but it seems that he gets extra special treatment.  I've found it
    funny, and in many ways sad, that while others superstars can get
    criticized for doing things, Mr. Mike can't - or the Jordan Jihad jumps
    down your throat.  
    
    I'll enjoy his hoops for the years to come - just like I did Magic and
    Bird and Kareem and COwens, and Havlichek and Bradley and Frazier and
    Lanier - and will continue to enjoy Mullin and Ewing and Hakeen and
    Clyde and the rest.  He's just another hoops player - a damn good one -
    but that's it.  He ain't no god.  He' ain't no superman, and he ain't
    perfect.   
    
    JD

    	JD's right.  Personally I believe that Jordan is responsible
    for the budget deficit.
    
    				/Don

    
    figgers that Dinz was able to decipher M. Brooks' note.   8^) 

    
>    ALl I've ever done is make the cardinal mistakes of not going ga-ga
>    over everthing Jordan does.  To not fall all over myself whenever a new
>    Mike commercial comes on.  That's it.  
    
    Nice spin move, JD.  More like you've gone out of your way to criticize
    Jordan at every opportunity (including on that last commercial).  No 
    problem with that, but then a couple of us engage in a little funnin'
    with it and you get sensitive on us...
    
    glenn
    
    

    What cover thin?
    
    Spin Move - yep, with my tongue out.
    
    Criticize at every turn?  Well, I don't praise him at every turn, like
    most folks do.  Hey, I feel that Mike Jordan should be hit with a
    technical for chucking a ball at another guys face, just like Kenny
    Gattison would.  Simple enough.  What's the message being passed down
    by not enforcing rules equally?  
    
    But that's that.  Sensitive.  Nah.  Just keeping folks honest.  Certain
    noters (I.E. Jordan Love-SLaves) like to twist everything around.
    
    JD

    	I don't know JD.  I think you've been a little sensitive lately.

I wish I had kept it, but there was an excellent editorial in a recent
Sunday edition of the Hartford Courant, about why Sports figures should
not be role models.

With today's media coverage (Oh, gee, Mr. Jordan, is that a hemmerhoid
you have there?) it's just not a good idea.  The eye of the media looks
very closely these days, and men, who just happen to throw a baseball
better, or shoot a basketball better than most men, are not necessarily
qualified to be idolized....


'Saw

    There You go again throwing in ga-ga over jordan,  who is ga-ga over
    jordan.  Id admit there's been times when hes made a move on the court
    thats put me in shock, but so havnt many other bball players.  And
    who's buying his image.  He got mega money to play a game, signed mega
    contracts to endorse product and instead of spending it on hookers, 
    booze, drugs and women he's started up companies and invested his
    money.  Fine he may be a louwsy buisness man, but he hired good
    investors.  Thats still better then snorting it up his nose.
    
    Again I dont thinks hes god, I dont go gaga, I dont get woddies (over
    him) and I dont worship him.  I more or less enjoy watching him play
    the game (And I have to admit I sometimes like to get people going in
    this notes file by saying something I know will set them off) Sorry.
    
    Oh and lastly sorry I didnt include the Patended Brooks-Decoder-Ring
    on my last few notes :-)
    
    And to show you how much I know.... I know even know who won last
    nights game.... can somebody give me the final score and how much did
    jordan score... Thanks
    
    					M_overworkedtired_Brooks

    (-1) Im not sure what context to take that in, but my partying
    days are over.  My last pary cost about $$$ while I want put the
    exact figure in buy I destroyed my parents house while they were
    in florida.... And after thinking my father would end my life I
    kind of calmed down.  I may be only 24 but I also have my 5th yr
    at dec coming up as well as my 5th year wedding aniversary and my
    daughters 1 yr b-day.  (Im trying to pack a full live into 30yrs)
    :-)  Tried to do 4yrs of college in 3 and got burnt out never finished
    
    But would like to get to one of the sports get togethers at the bull
    one of these days seeing that I can walk to the bull from my house.
    The only noters Ive met are Dennis and Dickstah (and thats at work).
    
    Oh well now all you heavy drinkers out there (Which im sure there are
    plenty of you) take it easy tonight on the drinking.  The Policemen
    are working double shifts and over time to make your holidays something
    special.  Although the Maynard Polices Concreate beds are very cold and
    comfortable...And Marlboro has brand newrooms for your overnight
    pleasure Im sure you dont want the experience :-) ...

    Gee.. nothing about Chuck Person doing a number on John Paxson
    last night... Flagrant foul... and tossed... Jordan and the Pacers
    coach Hill both gets Ts for yelling at each other....
    
    REK

    "doing a number" is an understatement here, REK.  Person had his arm
    cocked and unloaded right into Paxson (basket good, BTW).  Then he has
    the nerve to deny it was intentional.  
    
    Malone's hit on Isiah was crushing, but at the same time there is a
    shadow of a doubt that it might have been good, hard basketball.  Not
    this one.  Person went in locked, loaded, and ready to terminate.
    
    	--dan'l

    Sounds Like I missed a good one... But still who won and what was the
    final score ? Thanks

Like the guy on WPLR always says:

	Don't drink and drive, drink and stay put.  And make them
	cook you breakfast....


M_Air --  slow down a little.  There's plenty of time for everything,
and when you get burned out, it ain't any fun....8^)



Hawk, do me.  



'Saw

       I partied with Brooksie at DW90. He didn't even barf on my shoes!!
    
                                          Denny 8^)

    Saw the Person shot on film clip. Suspend him and fine him big time. No
    excuse for that.  None whatsoever.  We'll see what the NBA does with
    him.  Using their logic, he'll either get a big fine, or a wrist slap
    because - 1.  Chuck ain't one of the marketable superstars, and 2.
    Paxson aint a star.
    
    JD

    JD, I think he was fined $7500 and no suspension.  Whatta joke.
    
    Mark.

    You think Bush was getting back at Jordan for snubbing him by
    postponing the basketball game Christmas night?

    Person should be out for a couple of games for that.  Low blow..

    Does anyone know what Person's comments were about this?  I know Karl
    Malone swears his brush with Isiah was unintentional.  Can Person
    possible try to convince us of the same?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    He said he tried to foul him hard, but not hurt him.

    Person not getting suspended is a total joke.  Guess he doesn't wear
    the right uniform in Stern's eyes to get a real punishment.  Karl
    Malone's posturing, to me, is more proof that he did it intentionally,
    but he's too chicken to admit it.  
    
    JD

      Mike adds the Sporting News Sportsman of the Year to the list of
     end of the year honors he's received. 
    

 Karl Malone has renegotiated his contract just about every year he has been
 in the league, I would say his threat of retirement is more of a negotiating
 ploy than a sincere reaction to the criticism...

    > He said he tried to foul him hard, but not hurt him.
    
    Boy, talk about a stretch.  Since when do you try to foul a guy hard
    when he's taking a wide open jump shot?!  Person wasn't even in the
    vicinity of Paxson when he launched his wide-open 'J'.
    
    Not suspending Person (and fining him an amount that, relative to his
    salary, would have to be considered minute) is a joke, but obviously
    justice is NOT the name of the FANtastic NBA game.  :^(
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I think JD took his note about how he doesn't bash Jordan, inserted UW
    and Pac-10 in place of Mike, and reposted it in the college football
    topic.
    
    Malone wouldn't have been fined and suspended either if he didn't draw
    blood.

    
    Does anyone have the score of yesterday's Bull game?
    
    Thanks in advance.
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    
    	The bullcrappers lost in tripple overtime........Jordon got booted
    from the game for swearing at the ref.  something like 136-132
    

>    from the game for swearing at the ref.  something like 136-132

    
    
    	There were no indications of swearing! He was just stating his point
    on a terrible call. If you can read lips, then you might have seen
    something short of swearing. Other than that, he was just hot around
    the collar.
    
    B.A.

    If you can read lips, might you have seen something long of swearing?
    
    
    Inquiring mimes need a life,
    
    Nelly

    Thanks for the answer.  I think.

    This is starting to sound like a certain Red Sox pitcher a couple of
    years ago ...

    FWIW score was 126-123
    
    The Crazy Met
    

 Good Excellent amybe the Refs heard Magic's commentary on Sunday and are
 finally going to Ground his wiggly waggly tongued Airness�!!!

 I couldn't be happier...

 JD

 ;^)

 ps. disclaimer it's me taking liberties with my friend. I'm sure he won't
 mind    

    He said enough to be ejected, must have said something... his beef
    was "you don't call fouls like that that late in the game..."
    
    Gee, I thought a foul was a foul...

  Jolt Joe Dimagio...let's go with 1953

    Right player, wrong year... '48...

 cause I never looked at the header to see where I was.... ;^)

    IN the account I read, it was first thought that Jordan bumped the ref. 
    The other ref said that wasn't the case, and that Jordan must have said
    some of the 'magic' words to get booted.   It was actually an ejection
    that had no bearing on the game - there was very little time left -
    though the extra shot did let the Jazz get a 3 point lead.  
    
    P{hil Jackson was mad because he felt that the refs had been trying to
    'give the game to Utah' all night long, but the BNulls kept coming
    back, and that the refs must have 'decided to finally let the home team
    win'.
    
    FWIW, Jordan missed two opportunities to ice the game - and when he was
    called for the foul he probably was p.o.ed at hisself..
    
    JD

In the replay on the news last night, Jordan clearly bumped the ref.
Whether or not it was unintentional I don't know.

In the man's defense I do have to say that what I saw did not look like
enough to warrant an ejection.  If he was saying any of those bad words,
he certainly wasn't heated up about it.


Could be that the ref just wanted to bring Air Jordan down a peg or two.

I believe there was like .5 seconds on the clock or so.


IMO, ref should've let it go....based on what I saw.



'aw

    For the most part, from what Ive seen in the notes file from folks
    with BBall knowledge and from people around in my group that watched
    the game, it was both a very poorly officiated game and both the call
    agaisnt jordan and the ejection were questionable.  Maybe the refs did
    decide to keep jordan in line and were trying too hard to not be
    favorable towards him (THerefore being too strict).  Just as in the
    case against Detroit where Chicago kept influencing the refs by
    chanting over and over about Detroits Cheap Shots maybe the refs are
    getting to much heat over favoritism... OF course they still had to
    favore the home team, they dont want to get killed.
    
    I didnt see it live so I cant be sure but calling a fould with .5
    seconds left thats quesitonable is stupid.  Yes a foul is a foul
    no matter how much time is left, but to call a questionable foul at
    that point of the game is useless.  Why didnt the refs just say hey
    coach pull jordan out and let him rest, NO way are you winning this
    game.
    							M_Air_Brooks
    (But the refs made the call and sent jordan to rest)

    From what I saw, Jordan :
    
    1) DID foul the guy - not even close. I guess Jordan thought he was
    Larry Bird - I mean only the Birdman could get THAT kind of call - and
    only at home. :-)
    
    2) DID bump the ref - and that usually gets an ejection in any sport
    99% of the time. I mean Jordan followed the ref, got in his face and
    bumped him.
    
    It was a good call.

    
    At least this road trip has stopped the ridiculous talk of the Bulls
    winning 70.

    Its still not ridiculous, they were on track and have lost some
    questionable games.  They have yet to be blown out and all 8 of there
    loses where winnable.  From November 6th thru January 25th the bulls
    were 36-3, 16-2 on the road and 20-1 at home.  15 were west coast
    games.  So they already proved they could do it, its just not likely
    that every game during a season will come down to who has the better
    team.  82 Cleanly Called games is impossilbe and to ask your team to
    stay focused for that time frame is not likely possible.
    
    So with 35 games left in the season, and seeing they already had s
    stretch of 36-3, asking them to go 31-4 down the stretch is not
    impossible by any means... Just unlikely.  They should finish with
    the best record this year, thats the most important thing to gureentee
    Home Thru out the Playoffs...  If any team in recent history has had
    a shot at breaking the Lakers record, this bulls team is the one.  I
    was right about one this, these 10 games were the story, and there only
    1/2 thru them.  (I hate it when im right, I wish they proved me wrong
    and won all 10) :-)...
    							M_Air_Brooks

    I also saw the replay and Hussein Jordan clearly fouled Jeff Malone.
    What most people don't know is that Hussein missed 2 free throws with
    30 seconds left in the 2nd OT.  Paxson missed an 18' jumper just before
    Jordan fouled Malone.  The Bulls lost this game themselves.
    
    Re: poor officiating
    
    That occurs whenever Karl Malone is involved in a game.  Bird has
    nothing on Malone.  Karl leads the NBA in free throw attempts on a
    regular basis.  Last Friday night, the refs gave the Jazz a 117-116 win 
    in OT over Phoenix at the new Delta Center.  The Mailman alone went to 
    the line more times than the entire Suns team (21).  What's really 
    disturbing is that Phoenix scored twice as many points in the paint than 
    the Jazz.  A team taking it to the hole usually gets a break here and 
    there, but not in Utah.
    
    Suns will attempt to tie the franchise's home consecutive win streak
    tonight against the Bulls (19 in a row).
    
    Mike

	Air Jordan has been grounded by the NBA for tonight's game
	in Phoenix.

 dam that's good to hear. Justice for all...

 mike

    
    I think it still may have something to do with Jordan pulling his name
    from the NBA...FWIW
    
    B.A.
    

    That's too bad because Bulls' fans will have an excuse.

    Like I said in the Celts notes file, this is ridulous... The Bulls had
    a shot at breaking the Lakers record and then the refs take away 2
    games in a row... A game here and there, fine, 1 or 2 bad calls, fine.
    But to outright hand 2 games away is a bit too much.  Why not just tell
    them hey stay home tonight you getting a L.  Oh well this was the one
    and only way a team like phoenix was going to beat the bulls.....They
    should have called 5 fouls on pippen in the 1st just to be sure.
    
    They still have the best record and will be in the finals again,
    hopefully against LA (so there guareenteed to repeat).  For that matter
    I dont see any team in the west who can beat the bulls in a 7 game
    series.  The only team that beat the bulls on there own was San Antonio
    so hopefully they wont make the finals.
    
    							M_Air_Brooks

    Stop droppin acid Brookster.  Phoenix played without Chambers.  BOTH
    teams were without their #1 option on offense.  Phoenix still whupped
    them bums by 12!
    
    From the rule book: "...any intentional physical contact with an
    official results in an AUTOMATIC suspension."  Hussein Jordan did it to
    himself.  The refs had nothing to do with it.

    
    re: .298
    
    Excuses... excuses... excuses...  Hey, the refs give the Bulls
    alot of games too... Jordan can travel and hack all he wants,
    he has the SuperStar "Don't call a foul on me" Pass.

    Just like DickieV's comment last night when Laettner was called
    for travelling.  "TWEET!!!
    
    DickieV: "Next year he'll be able to take 2 more steps before they
    call it!"
    
    THAT's why I don't really like FANtasticball!
    
    Kev
    

    re .301
    
    You're just jealous, because they're all tall... 8^)
    
    
    Conan
    

    re .303
    
    Nah... I'm only on work release.   But what a great opportunity to
    commit crimes...   8^)
    
    Conan
    

    
    'Bout time Jordan was made to play by the same rules as every other
    player in the NBA.   Hope this signals the end of Jordan getting 
    preferential treatment.  
    
    
    Glad to hear that he didn't stick around and watch his teamates play..
    Instead, he hopped in his private Jet and headed down to Orlando..  
    
    /Jeff

    re .296...
    
    That's the refreshing attitude that made him Sportsman of the year,
    right?
    

    I keep expecting for David Stern to fire the refs for calling a foul on
    his highness and for suspending him.  If that was Barkley, or Isiah, or
    Rodman - they'd be gone for more than a week.
    
    It all evens out - at least - in the end - and I'm sure the non-fouls
    MJ commits (like all superstars) vastly outweighs any questionable
    fouls called against them.
    
    JD

    	Mike took a lot of heat for not letting the NBA market his face,
    but it seems like Karl Malone and quite a few others are doing the
    same thing.  Guess Mike ain't the only !@#$%^& in the NBA.
    
    				/Don

    	Somebody would want an "exclusive" contract on Jordan.  From
    what I've read a portion of the royalty money the league collects
    goes to the pension fund, and if all the stars follow Jordan's
    lead (Malone already has), substantially less money will go to the
    fund.  Supposedly Nike isn't forcing the issue, the players are.
    
    				/Don

    Well I for one would like to know Who is the Driving force behind
    this issue.  Is jordan saying No NBA/ALLSTAR/OLYMPIC Materials with
    my face/name on it or is it nike.  Also I cant believe it someone
    (JD) actually agreed that All stars get special treatment.  As I
    posted in the Celts note, Magic and Bird in there prime got the
    same treatment but there both old/gone so nobody cares anymore.
    
    Im sorry but being it just my Humble view but the Defending World
    champs that had a run of 36-3 and still have the best record in the
    nba appear to be a better team then Phoenix (But I could be wrong)
    just give me more then Chambers as a reason.  Although Im a firm
    believer that any team can win on any night (The Heat Beat GS) so
    Phoenix may have had a chance with jordan in, but at least agree that
    Phoenix teams/coaches/players were relieved to not have to defend him
    and if you cant agree to that, you must be able to see that the bulls
    without jordan are in FACT less of a threat....
    
    Lastly If Jordan is in FACT the one saying no NBA/ALL-STAR/OLYMPIC
    material endorsments with his name/image I will be the first to call
    him a 
    
    	NO_GOOD_MONEY_GRUBBING_LOWLIFE_ATHLETE_SCUMBUCKIT
    
    and you can quote me and hold me to it... I may even have to go back
    to rooting for atlanta (or even an expasion team that dont have any
    All -mightly-$$$ players)
    
    						M_   _Brooks

 Air, if you can't see that All-Stars get extra special as in kid glove 
 treatment by the NBA refs then you're obviously not watching the same
 game. Michael Jordan is allowed to palm and travel like no other player
 in the league. Also if it weren't for Karl Malone he'd be the most protected
 "you can't touch me, that's a foul" player in the game. Granted he's
 wonderfully talented but those talents are very tainted by the BS he's
 allowed to get away with.

 He's also one of the biggest whinners in the game, which makes absolutely
 no sense given what he's allowed to get away with. Of course we all know
 he picked up that aspect of his game from his "systems" college coach.

 mike

   Gee, Mike goes from bumping a referee to being Jeffrey Dahmers evil
  twin in one week. It's really too bad that when you're the best there's 
  ever been certain people want to try and knock you down a peg. Take heart 
  Mikey J, I been there myself.  
     
    

    I can see that the ALL-STARS get special treatment but some seem to
    forget that there others getting the same special treatment the jordan
    gets.  And again unless you see every game and every play you cant say
    that jordan gets the most calls...  And Ive seen every player complain
    about call but not all players get looked at thru the Microscope that
    jordan is inspected thru...  You think he gets away with too much due
    to his STAR status... I think he gets put thru too much due to his
    star status as well..
    								MaB

 Personal Opinion due to Personal Bias
    

        <<< OOBIE::OOBIE$DKB300:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOSTON_CELTICS.NOTE;1 >>>
              -< Welcome Back to the Boston Celtics Conference! >-
================================================================================
Note 24.181               World Champion Chicago Bulls                181 of 182
FSOA::JHENDRY "John Hendry, DTN 297-2623"            51 lines   7-FEB-1992 13:05
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The money from NBA merchandising is a drop in the bucket compared to
    league-wide revenues (or so I've heard), somewhere in the low seven
    figures.  Most if not all of this money goes into the NBA Players
    Association pension fund.  In other words, what MJ is doing isn't so
    much screwing the league directly as it is screwing his fellow players. 
    All accounts I've read also indicate that he and Nike are jointly
    enforcing the exclusivity clause in his contract.
    
    I see several problems with what's happening.  I don't blame Jordan for
    trying to get all the money he can get.  It does, however, set a few
    dangerous precedents that could hurt the league in the long run:
    
    1.  There are about 80-85 other players who have the same sort of
    contract with Nike.  If all of them choose to enforce the clause then
    the NBA starts to lose more money.  That's bad for the league and more
    importantly, bad for the players.
    
    2.  Before the era of peace and harmony that started in the late
    seventies, the NBA's image was poor and most teams were losing money. 
    The things that turned it around were the start of the Johnson/Bird era
    but more importantly, unprecedented cooperation between the league and
    its players.  What Jordan is doing could see the reversal of that
    cooperation.
    
    3.  International growth is very important to the future of the NBA and
    it becomes more difficult to market if the league's brightest star is
    not a part of it.
    
    4.  Jordan is trying to put himself above the game.  While I don't
    blame him for trying to get all the money he can get while he can get
    it, what he's doing has short-term benefit for himself and potential
    long-term harm for his sport.  There are clauses in every player's
    contract about doing personal appearances and so on to benefit his team
    and his league because it is to everyone's benefit for the athlete to
    do so.  One of the things that's really helped turn the Patriots around
    is a reversal of the policy that said players couldn't do personal
    appearances during the season - now folks are clamoring for Patriots to
    do spots and in turn, this will boost ticket sales.  In other words, I
    feel Jordan has an *OBLIGATION* to help the organization that has
    helped him make all this money and he has an obligation to help those
    marginal players (and the players who have come before him who benefit
    from the pension fund) and not enforce this clause.  Nike has no such
    obligation but I hope they're smart enough to realize that they could
    be hurting a sport that helps them.
    
    In conclusion, I believe the NBA should have its own exclusivity clause
    for any future contracts guaranteeing them the right to use images of
    the players on their official merchandise.  I believe Jordan is being
    short-sighted and greedy, and he has tarnished himself in my eyes.
    
    John
    

    	It would be kind of funny if next summer the NBA tries to sell
    an Olympic t-shirt and everyone on the team had their face blanked
    out.  Kind of like the Kennedy-Smith trial.
    
    				/Don

 I see your points John but aren't the players ready to strike a new deal
 with the NBA? I know the players are fed up with the salary cap because
 so many teams are over the cap, the free agency market has become somewhat
 restricted. Perhaps by Jordan's action and other's like him they're building
 up bargaining positions with the owners?

 mike

    	Good point Mike.  Actually the salary cap was implemented when
    the league was much less popular and idiots like Ted Stepien were
    running teams far into the red.  They probably don't need one now
    because even the rich teams can only afford so many superstars before
    the salaries take their toll on the bottom line.
    
    				/Don

    The Warriors beat the Bulls both times they played them.  I guess
    Golden St. is better.

    BZZZZZZZZ... Wrong... I can Finaly say FACT and its un arguable.
    The Bulls lost to GS on 11/5 in chicago then went on a 14 game W
    streak and GS was during that strip @GS, they swept a 6 game west
    coast swing.... phew...From 11/6-1/25 there were 3 loses @Philly
    Lakers and @milwaukee they are however 1-2 VS Milwaukee so Milwaukee
    is a better team :-)... No West Coast Team Will Sweep the bulls this
    season :-), I believe its already too late, theyve beat each west
    coast team at least once so far, I know this means nothing but what
    they hey...Most of what I type in here means nothing ;-)
    							M_   _Brooks

    
    According to this week's Sports Illustrated, Nike is forcing the issue
    with these exclusivity clauses.  They quoted some exec as stating that
    Nike knows it's not a lot of money directly at stake, but that if Nike 
    doesn't retain control as a matter of principal, then the value of 
    their investment in a player is compromised by the player's diminished
    scarcity in the market.  As long as the unauthorized endorsements are 
    restricted to the NBA, I think that's total BS.  Exactly who do these 
    guys think Michael Jordan works for?  Do they think that it's his role 
    in TV commercials that makes him an attraction in the NBA instead of 
    the other way around?  
    
    For what it's worth, the clip also said that it's expected that Nike 
    will follow with similar action for other NBA players.  I think that if
    pursued further this is eventually going to turn out to be a major 
    PR gaffe on Nike's part.
    
    As for Jordan's suspension, I saw the films and he received the
    punishment he deserved.  If anything, Stern's decision should have put the 
    cynical Jordan-bashers to rest for a change, but instead I'm hearing that
    it wasn't enough.  Other players would have received a week's
    suspension?  Please...
                                                 
    glenn
    

    .313
  > Gee, Mike goes from bumping a referee to being Jeffrey Dahmers evil
  >twin in one week. It's really too bad that when you're the best there's 
  >ever been certain people want to try and knock you down a peg. Take heart 
  >Mikey J, I been there myself.  
    
    Welcome to the world of "Can't beat them, so let's bash them to death".
    This coming from one of the biggest Thomas/Piston bashers in here,
    right?

    
    Who can't beat the Pistons... They finally beat Cleveland this year,
    stopping Clevelands winning streak over the Pistons at 5.

    Well the 1st half is behind us, and Chicago has to regroup stop
    reading the press and get back on track.  They still have the best
    record in the NBA and will have to regroup to keep it.  They cant
    let all these distractions take away from there game.  I just realized
    that in the Utah game Pippen had already been fouled out of the game
    and then jordan got tossed.. Im glad I wasnt watching that game.  
    
    The Bulls can start taking advantage of there schedule after this week
    its smooth sailing.  Most of there west coast games are done with and
    there longest road stretch left is 4 and thats vs ORL, MIA, NJ and Wash
    Cant wait for that.  So they got hot and stayed hot at the right times
    except for last week.. THe 70W season is more or less done but they can
    still match or improve on last years record (bulls best season).  They
    can still afford 3L and hit 70 but I think they will get 1 L this week
    so its not very likely.
    
    Well Fellow bulls fans (if there's any left) here's to a great 2nd 1/2
    and a shot at repeating...GO BULLS 2 in row..
    							M_   _Brooks

    Good to see Scottie could be on the same court as Isiah for the
    all-star game....
    
    Good to see MJ play despite not having 3 Bulls named to the team
    (unless you count Phil).  Did any teams have 3 players on the team?

 sure Walt I'll play your fool :^)

 Rodman, Thomas and Dumars of the Pistons....

    Oh thanks Mike... 

    Mike were you really play-acting ? :-)

    Too many Celtics....

    At least the East won when there were 2 or greater Celts on the team.

    I heard the called in a specialist for this game...
    
    Vince from the good ol WWF was on hand to help write
    the script..........................................
    
    
    							MaB :-)

    Chicago Bulls Clinch Playoff spot (as of yesturday afternoon) mar 8th
    Thats not a bad time to clinch.  They have a nice 10 game lead over
    cleveland and I think a 7 or 8 game lead over Portland.  They can 
    clinch home-court thruout with about 10 more wins.... GO BULLS....
    
    51-12, they wont hit the NBA record but should break the team record
    set last year... ALthough they would trade that for another
    Championship..Here's hoping they get there...
    
    The only other happening is that Jordan has 5 scoring titles in a row
    and looks like he will get #6 this year.  He could then tie Wilt next
    year and has all the potential of breaking wilts record...
    
    							M_Air_Brooks

Article 3834 of clari.sports.basketball:
Path: shodha.enet.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!news.crl.dec.com!deccrl!decwrl!uunet!looking!clarinews
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: NBA investigating Jordan, betting
Date: 20 Mar 92 15:25:07 GMT
Lines: 40

	CHICAGO (UPI) -- The National Basketball Association has begun an
investigation of reports that checks apparently written by Chicago Bulls
star Michael Jordan to cover gambling debts were found in the possession
of a bail bondsman who was killed.
	``We're going to be looking into this,'' NBA spokesman Brian McIntyre
said Thursday.
	The Charlotte (N.C.) Observer said Jordan's checks totaling more than
$100,000 to repay debts from poker, dice and golf games played in Hilton
Head, S.C., were found among the possessions of Eddie Dow, a Gaston, N.
C., bondsman who was killed in a robbery.
	According to the Gaston Gazette, two Jordan checks, for $20,000 and
$77,000, were made out to Dean Chapman, a friend of Dow's. The two
checks were repayments of loans made to Jordan so he could gamble or
payments of wagers on golf and poker in which Jordan and Dow
participated, Dow's lawyer, Stephen Gheen, told the newspaper.
	Gheen was quoted as saying Jordan and Dow often wagered $1,000 a hole
in golf matches.
	Gambling is a misdemeanor under South Carolina law. No charges have
been brought against Jordan.
	The NBA said it will look into the checks under its ``good-conduct
rule,'' which concerns moral character and the integrity of basketball.
	NBA players are prohibited from betting on NBA games and there were
no allegations that Jordan had violated that rule. But sports leagues
usually advise players to avoid business arrangements with anybody of
questionable behavior because a player might fall into debt and be asked
to influence the outcome of a game.
	Jordan refused to comment on the investigation.
	The Observer quoted Dow's brother, Freedie ``Flip'' Dow, as saying
Jordan had invited Eddie Dow and several friends to play golf. He said
his brother did not play golf, but bet on other peoples' matches and
lent golfers and poker players money to gamble with.

    No comment on the gambling (much to chagrin of Tommy B.  ISFH)
    
    Quote from Peter Vecsey:
    
    "The message I"m getting from stars like Jordan and Barkley is they can
    do what they want, that they're above the rules."
    
    
    Ah, what the heck. It is expected, after all:
    
    The new Jordan Commercial:
    
    "I wanna bet like Mike...
    I wanna hang with drug dealers...
    
    I wanna bet like Mike...
    Still get millions from Nike...
    
    You can't use my face...
    Don't plaster it around the place...
    
    You may think it sucks...
    But I want my bucks...
    
    I wanna bet like Mike...
    Gonna tell you to take a hike...
    
    Now that I got  my ring...
    Of everything I'm the King...
    
    For those who think I may one day burn...
    Remember I own the guy named David Stern...
    
    I wanna bet like Mike...
    Gamblers, bookies I do what I like...
    
    I'll do whatever I want, any day...
    Or I'll simply threaten to no longer play...
    
    I wanna bet like Mike..."
    
    
    JD

    As much as I'm becoming an anti-Mike, as long as long as his gambling
    didn't enter the realm of NBA Basketball at all, then it's of trivial
    importance.  I consider Mike being caught smoking a joint as more
    harmful to his idols and fantasketball than him making golf bets with
    others who also don't have real jobs and have megabucks to burn....
    
    Hawk
    

    I think that Jordan should be suspended, say, for maybe 10 games at the
    least for this link to big-bucks gambling (this isn't a new story, by
    the way, just a continuation of the earlier allegations after the payee
    recently turned up dead and his records confiscated).  Unfortunately, 
    as Jordan's gambling is not directly connected to his NBA employment, 
    it's doubtful that the commissioner's power to suspend him from his job 
    would hold up in the courts.  The most recent precedent in pro sports 
    was Lenny Dykstra's loss of $80K in illegal poker games, and he was 
    given a virtual wrist-slap, some sort of internal MLB double-secret 
    probation that didn't mean anything...
    
    glenn
     

   re .342  

    Thank you Box Office Willie for saving me the trouble of responding to 
   JD's truly horrendous attempt at poetry. Given how petty the alleged mis-
   deeds are there's no doubt that if Mike wasn't the greatest player that 
   ever lived and idol of millions, it wouldn't even be an issue. But Mike,
   much like myself, has to live with the petty jealousies of less talented
   people.
   
    

 The Jordan gambling controversy is getting some serious ink here in
 Charlotte.   It certainly appears that it's all big cash golf and poker
 bets with his buddies (however questionable they might be) in Hilton Head
 where Jordan has a summer home.
 
 Problem for His Airness is that South Carolina has some misdemeanor laws
 on the books prohibiting this kind of private wagering.   While it's a
 long shot that Jordan would actually get slapped for it, it would seem as
 though someone is going to have start the spin control machine soon.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Tommy -
    
    I thought it was obvious that the 'poem' was merely for your benefit
    (and if he's around, Air Brooks).
    
    In your eyes, it seems that just because his highness is a star and an
    idol, then he should be above the fray.  
    
    If the S.C. laws are as Bob Hunt says, then folks have probably
    been fined or served some time (or community service) for violating
    those laws.  I'd bet that Jordan has nothing to worry about in that
    department.  And its because he's a celebrity, and lives by different
    rules than the common folk.  Sure, he gets some bad publcity - because
    of his stature - but no where near the positive press he gets.  
    
    He has nothing to worry about.  Nothing will happen to him.
    
    JD

    Truth be told, JD, I could care less about Michael Jordan and/
   or the Chicago Bulls. I just regard these instance when Mike 
   stumbles as opportunities to torque you up a little bit. So don't 
   take my respones quite so seriously.
    

    So Tommy - we end up torquing each other. [isfh]
    
    jd

 The problem ain't the bets.  Everyone knows that golf, dice, and poker are
 played for money.   And I have no problem with Jordan losing $165,000 in
 the process ... It's utterly foolish to think that the man will play
 simple nickel-dime-quarter poker like the rest of us.
 
 Uh-uh, the problem is the association.  This guy, Eddie Dow, who got
 himself shot and killed was a known high-stakes gambler.   And among his
 personal effects were photcopies of big checks that Jordan had written to
 him to cover his losses.   *THAT* is the problem.
 
 Lenny Dykstra got fined a hefty chunk lasted year and put on probation by
 MLB for the same type of betting.  And don't forget that the NBA cracked
 down swift and hard on both Charles Barkley and Mark Jackson when they
 said they had made a friendly bet on who would hit the winning shot in a
 Sixers-Knicks game.   They both got $5,000 fines and a woodshed visit with
 David Stern.
 
 Mike's problem is his association with gamblers, not the individual bets
 nor the big sums themselves.   He put himself in a tough position where
 someday he might have to owe them a favor and not just some checks.  The
 NBA has to crack him.   The NBA, not so long ago a laughingstock, is now
 the envy of professional sports.   Jordan is the NBA's primary meal ticket
 right now and they have to tell Mike in no uncertain terms that he cannot
 put everyone in jeopardy like this.  Strictly business.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Bob -
    
    Exactly.   But I still say nothing will happen.  He's untouchable. 
    He's not Barkley or Jackson.  He's Air Jordan.  David Stern won't do a
    thing.
    
    JD

You guys can torgue each other all you want.

Just watch the foot-pounds, and please don't give each other a torsion....


'Saw

    Mike will get read out on this one JD. I know you'll have problems
    handling it ... but it will happen  ... :-)
    
    The NBA has to protect itself - and Mike will be damaged *because* of
    his stature, Dykstra can let it roll off his back - heck it fits with
    his image, but Jordan ?
    
    Nope ...

    In case you nit wits cant tell the difference.... Barkley's bet was on
    BASKETBALL.... Pete Rose bet ON BASEBALL.  From my understandment
    Jordan Bet on GOLF (Which he should have never done because hes not
    very good at golf :-)... ).  And Im not sure if I read/heard this right
    but he did not lose the money directly to the guy who was killed ???
    but he lost the money to someone who owed that guy money, is this
    correct ????  who knows maybe my mother's, brother's, sister's dog
    use to doggie style with this guys poodle..... you think theyll link
    me with him....
    
    The only people who will make a big deal out of this, are Newpapers,
    smut sells and jordan bashers (Id say jd's good for about 10 more notes
    on this subject).  I havnt been paying much attention becuause its no
    big deal.... and if you think its a REAL BIG DEAL...stop and really
    think about it.  Id say maybe somewhere around 100-200K sports players
    could be linked to gambling in one way or another.  And if you think
    jordan is going to lose his net worth of 50-60 Million playing golf at
    1000 a hole your not very good a math, that would be somewhere in the
    facinity of 3,333 golf mathches (18 holes) without winning a hole.
    
    Dont give up your day job...
    								M_Air_B

    Thanks for the laugh m-air_b.  Glad to see that everything has zoomed
    on by...
    
    Re Doc -
    
    I still don't think anything will happen.  If it does, good, cuz he
    should at least get admonished.  
    
    re M_air_B -
    
    What do you mean Air's not good at Golf?  I've read where he wants to
    go on the pro tour after hoops and shoots in the 70's.
    
    JD

  Chances are Mike will be fined but the man's got a bazillion dollars
 so how much good will that do ? And if they suspend him he'll prob-
 ably just play golf anyways. The only real harm that I can see in what
 he's done is the point that Bob Hunt raised - conceivably he could put 
 himself in a compromising  position. What he's accused of, in and of itself,
 is nothing that most people who've ever played any kind of game haven't done 
 despite what his detractors (and you know who you are) say. And as for having 
 broken the law, this type of wagering is a msidemeanor in South Carolina us-
 ually punished by a measly fine.
    

    
    
    Mike Jordan is a excellent golfer. His HDCP is 0. He's good enough to
    turn pro, or be a top ranked amature.
    
    Mike

 M_Air_Brooks ...
 
 I'm sorry you feel that way but you're not thinking this thing through
 clearly.   Michael has chosen his friends poorly in this case and the NBA
 has to take some serious steps with him to insure its' future growth.  
 
 There is *no* other sports enterprise on this planet, professional or
 otherwise, that depends so heavily on its players for its net worth --
 balance sheet -- the bottom line -- than the NBA.   And with Magic's
 unfortunate contraction of HIV and Larry Bird's chronic back woes, Michael
 Jordan *IS* the NBA right now.
 
 Whatever the convoluted personal relationships may be, Michael Jordan has
 chosen to befriend some people who are involved in large stakes gambling. 
 Again, it doesn't matter if he can afford the bets.  We all know he can
 and no one begrudges his freedom to plunk down $10K on a putt if he wants
 to.
 
 But in doing so, he puts himself at risk.  And by doing that, he puts the
 entire NBA at risk.  Is he a special case ???   Absolutely.  He's so
 special that he has to be told in no uncertain terms that he simply cannot
 comtinue to do this or the NBA as a business is doomed.   
 
 We, the public, may never be told what David Stern will tell Michael
 Jordan.   But, I guarantee that Stern will talk with him and he will lay
 the cold bare truth out on the line to him.  It must be cleaned up and it
 must stop.
 
 Bob Hunt

I don't have all the facts here, but here's my opinion.


Until America has legalized Sports Betting, like they do in Britain, it
is probably not a good idea for athletes to associate with known gamblers.

Look at the problems that Mantle and Mays had when those casinos wanted
them to be spokesmen.

The sports establishment frowns on that stuff.  That's a reality.  It's
probably from our puritanical roots, but it is a reality.


If Mike wants to be this big role model, he should be very careful, as
should all athletes.


While I wonder what it's like to have so much money that I could just
go out and gamble it away, Mike can do what he likes with it.  But he
should be careful, because sports history has shown that gambling involvment
causes more problems that not.  He seems like a prudent man, and he
should be prudent in this case...


If he's looking for things to do with his money, will someone give him
my address?

thanks,
'Saw

re Bob Hunt:


Good points Bob.


When you're a superstar, sometimes you have to be held more accountable
than the average Joe.   

Kind of like if you're King or Queen.  People don't like hearing that
their King is diddling the milk maiden, even if the Queen is a cold
hearted hag.   If the King wants to diddle the milk maiden he should be
smart about it, very discrete, and realize that if he gets caught, there
might be hell to pay....


Like Bob said, Mike *is* the NBA right now.  He is doing in the 90s what
Bird and Magic did in the 80s.  The NBA can't afford even the slightest
hint of a scandal...


'Saw

    Saw  -
    
    Its called being in the public eye.  It is why the media is allowed to
    dig into the personal lives of celebrities more than they can with the
    average Joe (covered in Journalism and First Ammedment law classes...)
    
    When a person enters the public eye, that person, is in effect, putting
    themselves in the limelight, and opening themselves up to mre scrutiny
    and to being held more accountable for their actions.  
    
    And like it or not, Mr. Jordan, as bob Hunt has said, is the NBA.  He's
    the image of the NBA.   And that means that who he chooses to hang
    around with will be scrutinized, and he probably will be 'urged' to
    disassociate himself from certain types of folks.
    
    JD

    IVe seen jordan in I think 3 tounnies on tv, once he was plus 9 after
    I think 3 days and once he was a whopping +18 after 3 days... I cant
    remember the other score.... They did mention (both times) that once
    he was sick and the other was after a busy week... So maybe he is good
    enough to go pro... But the times I Watched him (on the tube) he was
    not that great.
    
    Now, some of the same people who think its prejudice to not let Magic
    play bball think its ok to tell people who they can and cant associate
    with...???? Vey puzzling.  (the ol DBL standards). Magic and worthy can
    hang with hookers, every tom dick and harry proberbly know 2 dozen drug
    dealers... I do agree jordan has to be careful, but its his choice....
    The nba shouldnt have the right to chose a players friends... I hope
    none of his family members are linked to Illegal activity... Jordan
    will have to disown them....????
    
    Im still waiting, whats the real scoop.. DID Jordan make the checks
    Directly to the Decease Drug Dealer/Illegal Gambler or where the
    checks in fact made out to someone who then signed them over.  And
    did jordan make the bets directly with the deceased and was the
    Hood in question playing golf with jordan... I keep hearing diff Ver
    of the story... Whats the scoop...
    

    NAir, the freedoms you describe are exactly what Mike and the other
    superstars would love to have, but as previous noters tried to point
    out to you, they simply lost it all by being in the media's eye, the
    role model, etc.  Heck, one of Jordan's biggest beefs is that he cannot
    enjoy the simple pleasure of taking his wife to a movie theatre.  When
    you think about it, the man has less freedom than you and I.  But
    that's the price he has to pay for what he is.  Get it?
    
    Hawk
    

    It is also well known throughout professional sports that it is a no-no
    to asscoiate with professional gamblers.  Some sports even have written
    policies against it.  Mike knew this (or should have known this) going
    in.
    
    JD, did you think Tyson was going to get away scot-free too?

 �   Im still waiting, whats the real scoop.. DID Jordan make the checks
 �   Directly to the Decease Drug Dealer/Illegal Gambler or where the
 �   checks in fact made out to someone who then signed them over.  And
 �   did jordan make the bets directly with the deceased and was the
 �   Hood in question playing golf with jordan... I keep hearing diff Ver
 �   of the story... Whats the scoop...
 
 There are now a total of *FOUR* Jordan checks that are "in the news". 
 Three were uncovered with this Eddie Dow guy's death and the fourth was
 from lasted summer ... that "Slim" Bouler fellow.
 
 In Eddie Dow's private papers were photocopies of three (3) checks ...
 
 1) Cashier's check for ~$70,000, Sovran Bank, ProServ account, made out to
 Dean Chapman, a local Charlotte construction contractor, close friend of
 Dow, and high-stakes golf/poker/dice buddy with Jordan.   ProServ is
 Jordan's agent.
 
 2) Two personal checks from the private account of Michael and Juanita
 Jordan, Firstar Bank Of Illinois.   Signed by Michael Jordan.  One was
 blank but the amount was $11,000, if I recall.   The other check was
 another $10K+ check made out to Dean Chapman again.
 
 The fourth check is the one Jordan wrote last summer to Bouler, another
 pal and betting buddy.  Jordan got in some heat last summer 'cause Bouler
 was suspected of drug dealing, I think.   That check was a Sovran Bank
 cashier's check and it was cut on the exact same day as the Chapman check
 and its' serial number is exactly one number removed from the Chapman
 check.  The inference there, of course, is that they were cut at the same
 time and in sequence.  This check was for more than $50 grand too.
 
 Total was about $165,000 and Jordan and everyone involved has stated that
 they were to cover his betting losses.   That's it.  The Charlotte
 Observer printed pictures of the Dow check photcopies.  I read the article
 and saw the pictures.   The numbers might be off a little but not by a
 whole lot.
 
 Bob Hunt

I think Hawk said it about the best.


To everything there is a price.   Look at me.  I'm an average Joe. I can't
slam dunk, I can't shoot, I can't play hoops.  But I don't make the kind
of money Mike makes either.   Nor do I have the media poking a camera
in my bathroom everytime I go in to take a dump.


Associating with known gamblers, as Mac said, is a sports no-no.  It just
is.  Jordan should know that.   Associating with drug dealers isn't
cool either, but in the sporting world, gamblers are perceived as worse.


Mike cannot afford these indescretions like you or I could....



'Saw

And hey, M_Air,

In case you haven't figured it out, life AIN'T fair.   Never was, ain't now,
and probably never will be.

But there are compensations.  Mike makes megabucks....  If I could make
megabucks, I could deal with some of the unfairness he has to deal with
I'm sure....


What a sweet world it would be if life WAS fair....8^)


'Saw

    Mac -
    
    I fail to see  your logic (as usual).  Tyson's case and Jordan's have
    absolutely nothing in common.  IN fact, the only simularities the two
    have is they were professional athletes.  Other than that, you seem to
    be adrift in a see of fuzzy, or misguided, 'logic'.
    
    Tyson was charged, tried, and found guilty of a crime.  A crime, IMO,
    much, much, much worse than any allegations against Jordan.  
    
    JD

    JD,
    
    Huh?
    
    I asked a simple question.  Many people felt that Tyson would get off
    because of his name.  You're saying the same thing now about Jordan.  I
    was just wondering if you felt the same way about Iron Mike.
    
    It seems to me that even if Jordan is convicted of committing a
    misdemeanor and gets the appropriate punishment you'd come back and say
    it was only a wristslap and he got over because he's Air Jordan.  

The obvious danger here is that Michael Jordan is/will become a compulsive 
gambler.  If his addiciton takes over his life, he could fall into so much debt 
that he would consider shaving points or throwing games.  I know this is not
likely with the kind of money he has, but nothing is impossible.

Let's face it Michael is a great basketball player, but if these allegations are
true, he clearly made a mistake here.  To deny this is to be the ultimate 
apologist.

    
    Not to change the subject..  but there is no way that Michael Jordan
    would make it as a pro-golfer.   That's a pipe-dream if I ever heard 
    it...  
    
    "I knew Jack, I partied with Jack..  Michael, You ain't no Jack"
    
    				- Arnie

    
    re .371
    
    You don't have to be a Jack to be a professional golfer. If Michael was
    able to dedicate enough time to golf as he does to basketball, then I
    think he'd have a chance. Will he be as good as Jack??... Probably not!
    Could he make a living at it??....I think he could.
    
    re  a few back
    
    I saw Mike play golf in a tourney on TV once. He shot a 67 for 18. Not
    too bad for a guy who only plays the game for leisure.
    
    Mike

    
    re: -1.
    
    Sorry, Mike..  he wouldn't make a living at it.   As much as golf is 
    frowned upon as a not being a true "sport", it does take a great deal
    of skill and a sh!tload of practice.  Jordan is years behind the guys
    who take up the game at the age of 6 and play 3 rounds a week until 
    they REALLY get serious in high school and college.  
    
    I think you have the same misconception that a lot of folks have about 
    professional golf.. it takes a lot more than a scratch handicap to make
    it as a professional.  Lots and lots of folks have scratch handicaps,
    but the real pro tour (the only one you can make a "living" on), only 
    accepts a few hundred.   Just ask Fran Quinn of Pleasant Valley how 
    tough it is on the tour! 
    
    /Jeff 

I think Mike might have a better shot at the Seniors tour.  When he
retires, if he does nothing but play golf, when he turns 50 he can join...


And speaking of how tough golf is, (and I agree) it is simply amazing the
way Fred Couples is burning up the courses these days....


'Saw

    Well I disagree with most of you on one thing, Ive always felt that
    if you put your mind (and time) to it you can do anything.  When jordan
    retire's from basketball and starts playing golf full time he will more
    then likely get good enough to turn pro... he may not win any
    tournaments but will travle the circuit.  He will more than likely get
    endorsment contracts for golf equipment regardless of his performance
    on the golf course.  NOW to get back to the Gambling, the 4 checks that
    were written NONE of them were made out directly to this big time
    gambler ??  So again hes not linked to him directly he paid off a dept
    with one guy  who then used them checks to pay off another guy....
    
    Again some will make this out to be bigger then it really is, but I
    and the Chicago Bulls more then likly wont lose any sleep over it.  Im
    sure managment and Mr Jordan lawyers are already prepaired for anything
    that may come out of this.  Yes he should be charged and punished for
    this MISdameaor (I wonder how many of those Ive done in my life) but
    that should be the end of it.  He will more then likly continue to bet
    on his golf playing.....Of course I also felt pete rose was shafted, if
    he never bet on a game that he had influence in...But I guess you can
    assume he was thowing games to repay Depts too....Whatever...
    
    Is there a gambling note, move this to there... On with BasketBall
    Bulls VS Denver Tonight, I would say easy win but after losing to
    Orlando anything is possible...
    							M_air_B

 � NOW to get back to the Gambling, the 4 checks that were written NONE of
 � them were made out directly to this big time gambler ??  So again hes not
 � linked to him directly he paid off a dept with one guy  who then used them
 � checks to pay off another guy....
 
 The check from last summer to Bouler was made directly to him.  
 Photocopies of these latest three checks were found in the late Eddie
 Dow's personal effects at his home.   One of them was blank which means
 Dow could *easily* have cashed it himself.
 
 What more link do you want ???
 
 And let me state it again for the record ... I have *no* axe to grind with
 Michael Jordan.  I think he's an incredible talent and he handles the
 demands of mega-celebrity as well as any athlete ever has.   But he has to
 be made to understand that he's flirting with the death of his golden
 goose and that of hundreds of other professional basketball players and
 thousands of player hopefuls.   And, no that is *not* blown all out of
 proportion.   He is that important to the game at this point in time.
 
 Stern can lay all this out to him in strictly business terms alone.  No
 need for Michael to be publicly humiliated ... other than to serve as a
 deterrent for other players.  If Stern doesn't do something, the risk is
 very real ... and Stern makes millions himself so he certainly will have
 something to say.
 
 Bob Hunt

    RE .373
    
    Sorry Jeff, but you have no idea what you're talking about. I know what
    it takes to be a pro golfer. I golf myself, and a kid I went to
    high-shcool is a pro golfer. He's never been in a major tourney, yet he
    somehow makes a nice $60k a year living. I never said that Mike would
    be superstar (although if he dedicated his life to it from the time he
    was 10 then I think he has the talent to). There are many regional
    tourneys and foreign tourneys that a decent pro can make a living at.
    In fact my friend has never even won a tournement. 
    
    Mike

You don't need a direct link, only the merest association with a gambler.


Gambling is a stigma in American sports society.  Karras and Hornung were
suspended for betting on football games -- not games that they were in, but
football games.

In Britain, I don't think that would be a problem, but here it is.

If Mike is smart, he'll have to keep his eyes open to who he's hanging around
with, and who that person's associates are....


Maybe someday, if we ever have fully legalized betting here, you won't see
this problem.  But today it exists....


'Saw

    
    Sorry to you Mike, but now you're showing that YOU have no idea what
    you are talking about.  If it's sooo easy to make 60K being a golfer, 
    why doesn't every unemployed autoworker take up the sport?  Your friend
    obviously has enough talent to survive as a Pro, however, for every 
    sucess story there are 10X as many stories of failure.  Granted, Jordan
    has the bucks in the bank so he can float it, but you can't buy talent,
    and you can't buy yourself onto the pro golf tour. 
    
    There is a big difference between a club pro and a touring pro.  And
    being a club pro is no picnic, talk about bad hours..do you really
    think Michael Jordan aspires to be a club pro, or a touring pro on
    anything but the PGA tour?  
      
    As far as the seniors tour goes, I don't see Jordan being allowed in,
    since I believe they are currently attempting to limit participation 
    to "legends" of the game, and he'll never be a golf legend.  
    
    /Jeff

Oh, I hadn't heard they were limiting it to legends of the game.
That changes things a bit.  Although I know John Brodie was playing
for a while...


Damn, just when I thought I could spend the next 17 years practicing up!


'Saw

    
    Jordan could make it as a pro golfer.  There are a few (not many, but a
    few) golfers on the tour who didn't take up golf until their twenties. 
    As a matter of fact there is someone (his name escapes me) who didn't
    start playing until he was 29 and is now on the tour.  
    
    As far as making a living, there are two ways to go, as a touring pro
    or as a club (teaching) pro.  If you take a look at the year end money
    list for the tour and draw a line at $100K, those above the line made a
    living.  Those below it are starving, and will probably soon end up as
    a club pro.  The expenses on the pro tour are high, sponsorships are
    few and far between (unless you are a John Daly), and the travel is
    horrendous.  A club pro in a good situation can make $100K+, and not
    have the expense issues.  A decent teaching pro probably makes anywhere
    from $30-75K.
    
    Bruce  (worked at a golf shop for 12 years, caddied for one of the guys
    who qualified for the tour, but didn't make any money at it)

    
    RE .379
    
    I'll agree with you to some degree. You're making the assumption that
    Michael dosn't have the talent, and the he dosn't have the ability to
    get the talent. That's a big assumption. For a guy who just plays the
    game as a leisure sport and s able to shoot in the 60's and who has a 
    0 HDCP seems to me that he's got a lot of talent. I know that when I
    play more, my HDCP goes down. I know I don't have the talent to be a
    pro. I don't shoot in the 60's, yet I've been playing a lot longer then
    Mike has. Less then 1% of the golfers in the US have a 0 HDCP.
    
    Mike

    
     Calvin Peete took up golf (I believe) when he was in his thirties.

    
    BTW the seniors tour isn't limited to legends. Take a look at the guy
    who won the Digital Seniors last year. He had only 1 previous pro title
    to that victory. In fact there are several retired players on the
    Seniors who never played pro golf until the Seniors.
    
    Mike

    John Brody, ex 49er QB and ex-sportscaster, won events on the senior
    tour when he started.  He quit sportscasting to join the tour.
    
    And remember, Jordan doesn't have to make a living out of playing golf. 
    He'll have enough to live very comfortably, and he'll probably still be
    endorsing products after he retires.  
    
    Re MAC:
    
    Still no link between Tyson and Jordan - you are reaching big time. 
    And I don't have to make any comments on any Jordan punishment - folks
    have already made up what I'll say anyway...
    
    JD

    
    Re: senior tour.. they are discussing limiting play to "legends", It 
    hasn't been implemented yet, however, it appears likely.  After all, 
    who wants to see Joe Blow - club pro who aged well, taking home all the 
    prize money.   People want to pay to see Arnie, Jack and the like.
    
    Well, let's see, if 1% of all golfers are scratch, and 250 or so are on
    the tour then only .1% of scratch golfers are on the tour (assuming 25 
    million golfers - or 10% of the population).  Jordan's gonna have to
    work awful hard to make the top .1%...  And based on his major betting
    losses on the links, he's either giving too many strokes, or he just 
    ain't playing well!   
    
    /Jeff
    

    Reete was the guy I was trying to remember.
    
    re .488  I think the comment was "less than 1%" of all golfers are
    scratch.

    
    Jeff....You need a reading comprehension course. I said "LESS then 1%".
    The operative word here is LESS.

 I think you guys are overstating Jordan's worth to the NBA. Sure he's a
 big part of their success but the league would florish without him. Magic's
 gone and the league hasn't lost any popularity. With the ever heightning
 popularity of the NCAA and 17 and 18 year old stars being born out there
 there's always somebody out there to fill the void. 

 FWIW, Charlotte is the third leading seller of NBA franchise material.
 The NBA makes more money off of team logos than individual stars.

 My guess is that Jordan could be a golf pro. He supposedly an excellent
 baseball player. Just an all-around athlete from what I see. Given he
 probably averages 5 rounds or so a week and he's a 0 hncp, I would assume
 with total dedication he could lower that.

 I can't see the NBA doing much more than talking to Mike as he might just
 take his ball and go home given some of his past displays. Lord knows he
 set for life and doesn't exactly need basketball anymore.

 Hawk, 21 seems like an awfully late start for that putter to get some use...
 
 ;^)    

    I have to laugh everytime I hear "I wanna be like Mike" now.

� I think you guys are overstating Jordan's worth to the NBA. Sure he's a
� big part of their success but the league would florish without him. Magic's
� gone and the league hasn't lost any popularity. 
    
    Could it be becasue Magic passed on the torch to Air?

    You need more than association.  They tried to pin that on Isiah last
    summer or the one before I think.  Nothing came of it.
    
    Peete had an ugly swing because he couldn't straighten his arm out. 
    Can't remember why.
    
    I think Jordan could do it if he wanted because he's a great athlete...

    
    I still say it takes a lot more than being a great athlete to make it 
    in golf and Jordan is years behind the rest of the field, but there's 
    no way we're gonna settle it here, so I'm dropping the subject.
    
    We'll just have to wait till Jordan retires and tries to make the tour 
    and then we'll see who was right.  Actually, Mike, help us out!    Why 
    not get started this year.. You've got your championship, let the Cavs
    take it this year.  
    
    /Jeff

    Peete had an arm injury as a kid if I remember right.
    
    If you want bad, try Charlie Sifford. Shrapnal from WWII necessitated
    the fusion of his knee. Yet he still became a big winner and
    trailblazer for other black golfers.
    
    Mike Royko had a hysterically funny column once about Sifford, and how a 
    friend of his hated him, because Sifford's style went against just
    about every 'expert' golf manual ...

    
  >> Mike Royko had a hysterically funny column once about Sifford, and how a 
  >> friend of his hated him, because Sifford's style went against just
  >> about every 'expert' golf manual ...
    
     Sounds like a real knee-slapper, Doc.
    
      
      

If I'm not mistaken, Sifford plays, or has played on the Seniors tour, 
and is allowed the use of a cart.  The long handled putter has been
a god-send to him also...


'Saw

    Yep, a truly amazing man ....
    
    re Brydie
    
    Sorry if you can't see the humor, but *I* thought it was a funny
    column.
    
    And anyone who watches anybody acheive athletic success with a
    'unconventional' or seemingly unsound style could appreciate it.

    
     Just busting you a little, Doc. However, a small sampling might
    help some of us appreciate the side splitting hilarity of it all.

    Sorry, I read the column at least 1 1/2 years ago ... and most of the
    humor comes out of imaging Slats Grobnik (if it was him), burning his
    dog-eared golf manual, crying in his beer because his mechanics are
    'solid' and his handicap is still high. On the other hand, Sifford is
    violating 1/2 of the golfing commandments, and winning mega-bucks.
    
    It might wind up in one of Royko's books - if it hasn't already.

    
    From today's Boston Globe...
    
    Michael Jordan won't be punished by the NBA following an investigation
    of published reports about gambling by the Chicago Bulls star. Comm-
    issioner David Stern said the league found no cause for disciplinary 
    action against Jordan, who reportedly gambled on golf and cards with a
    convicted cocaine dealer and another man who later was killed in an un-
    related robbery.
    
    

Michael helped himslef out at the last minute by apologizing for his
indiscretion for associating with bad company.

Now all those who said that he'd be punish, go to the Crow Cafe.

TTom

    Jordan's biggest offense in this affair may turn out to be not his 
    gambling or his association with some shady characters but the fact 
    that he provided testimony to a grand jury stating that the check he 
    wrote to golf pro-shop owner and convicted cocaine peddler James "Slim" 
    Bouler was not to pay off a gambling debt but rather a personal loan 
    (relieving Bouler of any tax commitments on the money).  The case is 
    being re-considered after federal prosecutors released a tape where
    in a conversation with a friend Bouler claims that "I bet a <EXPLETIVE 
    DELETED> out of $200,000" and then goes on to state that he'd like to 
    avoid paying taxes on the money.
    
    Whether or not the tape was legally obtained and therefore admissible
    in court and whether or not Jordan was the aforementioned mark remains 
    to be seen, but if so, perjury is serious business...
    
    glenn
     

    But Judge the bet was simply this, If I beat you Mike you lend me
    money to open a Driving Range... So you see it was still a Loan :-)...
    
    							MaB

    
     It seems Michael "The Greatest Who Ever Played" Jordan has his mind 
    set on playing minor league baseball this summer perhaps for whatever 
    club is in the Charlotte area.

    Correct.  Micheal Jordan has asked George Shinn, owner of the Charlotte
    Hornets and also the Cubs AA club the Charlotte Knights, if he can
    pitch for the team this season.
    
    Of course, I heard this yesterday (April 1), so throw caution to the
    wind.
    
    	--dan'l

       Tidbit in the Glob says that the Charlotte owner has allowed Muggsey
    Bogues and Dell Curry to play for his minor league team.
                                    Denny

 �  Tidbit in the Glob says that the Charlotte owner has allowed Muggsey
 �   Bogues and Dell Curry to play for his minor league team.

George Shinn owns *TWO* minor-league teams, the AA Charlotte Knights (Cubs) 
and the A Gastonia Rangers (Rangers).   Bogues and Curry played part of one 
game lasted summer for the A Rangers, *NOT* the Knights.

Big difference between AA and A ball.  Each major league organization has 
as many as three A teams and several rookie teams as well but only 
one AA team.   The players at AA level are true prospects and pretty 
much had to survive competition among a hundred or so other players their 
age just to make AA.  It's the hardest jump in the minors.

Jordan wants to play for the AA Knights, *not* the A Rangers.   He'd be 
going up against solid baseball players.

Bob Hunt

    Jordan usta take BP with the White Sox.... I dunno, it is kind of a
    distraction to the players. I wouldn't want to be the guy who misses out 
    on a chance to make it becaues the owner wants Jordan to play and ring
    those cash registers. If it's a one-time stunt, why not, but anything
    more, no way.

Anyone catch the 6'oclock news on ch. 4 lasted night (Boston)?

Well they did this nice piece on a young teenage boy who was 
dying of cancer, and his one dream was to meet Mochael Jordan.
Well due to the generosity of one Dee Brown, and a particular
children's foundation he chairs, whose name escapes me at the
moment, the youth and a friend got some great tickets to the 
recent Bulls/Celts game and also a chance to meet the great,
wonderful, Mr. Jordan. Well they show the boy's having fun, yelling
and cheering for Mikey, and they interview this courageous kid
who plays off the fact that  he is really ill, and then they show 
him getting to meet the Jordan. Mike comes out of the dressing room 
with an entourage of lawyers and body gaurds, stops in front of the
young man, nary a smile to be seen on this hero's face. The young
boy asks Mike to sign his ball and Mikes say's "ok, but then I have to
go". WOW! Gee what a heart this man has! Couldn't you at least pat the 
kid on the head you jerk! Maybe smile at the boy, ask him his name?
No! Sign the steenkin ball and leave. What a guy. Now I know Mr. Jordan
is inandated with these types of request and all, but he couldn't
find 10 lousy seconds of time for a dying youth, just to acknowledge
a 'special' moment in his life. I think that's pretty sad, and if that's
what it means to be a 'superstar', I would never want any part of it.



Steve

Steve -

You must have seen it wrong.  Jordan was great.  It was the kids fault - or 
Isiah's fault.  

JD

(Sarcasm intended)

    
    I saw the piece, too, Steve, but one thing I have a real problem with
    is how the media will take a snippet like that and try to represent it 
    as some kind of a true picture of the person (and I've seen this kind
    of thing time and time again, with Roger Clemens and others who do give
    their time but always manage to fall just short in the public's eye).  
    Did Jordan know who he was meeting?  Did he have any understanding of 
    the circumstances?  Or to him was it just one of a thousand people a 
    day he comes into contact with that wants a small part of him?  If he 
    did know, he's a jerk; it he didn't, he was actually quite polite.  I
    guess I have a hard time trusting Bob Lobel, who's had a long-standing
    record of running down players, any more than I'd trust the athlete... 
    
    glenn
    

Really Steve, how can you get on Michael's case I mean his team just lost
for them a meaningless ballgame. You expect him to be happy about that?

 ;^) hahaa

 mike

    
    Yes, you are right JD. I almost forgot to eat ma Wheaties this morn,
    after a bowl full or two, I see that I was wrong.
    
    
    Steve 

    
    Glenn, I assumed that Dee Brown had talked to Michael about
    the boy, and if not then at least Michael knew what Dee's
    organization is all about. No? Maybe I'm being unfair, but
    it still pissed me off.
    
    
    Steve

   Steve that sounds pretty pathetic but it doesn't surprise me. I 
  saw Andre Tippett do pretty much the same thing last year at Patriot
  Picture Day down at Bryant College. What happened was, I had brought
  my nephew down to meet the players, get some autographs and maybe
  get his picture taken with some of the Pats. Well, we're standing in 
  line along with a few hundred other people next to this fenced in 
  tennis court waiting to go into this tent where the players will be 
  signing. Eventually ,the players come out of the gym and walk along the 
  other side of the tennis court towards the tent all except Andre Tipett
  that is. Andre chose to walk on the side of the tennis court where the
  line of fans was. This guy in back of me tells his son, "Go ahead
  shake his hand." This kid, musta been about nine years old, steps out
  of line and directly in Tippett's path and extends his hand. Tippett side-
  stepped the kid and completely ignored him. The kid was crushed. His father
  tried to tell him that maybe Tippett didn't see him but that was bullsh*t
  because Tippett had to step *around* him. It was the most pitiful display
  I've ever seen. It would have taken Tippet ten seconds to shake his hand
  and say hi to the kid and it would have made the kid's day. To top it all
  off after all the festivities we're getting ready to go when I see Andre 
  walking toward the gym and there's this other kid running after him obvious-
  ly trying to get an autograph. The kid's shouting Tippett's name and trying
  to catch up with him and when he finally does Tippet snubbed him too ! Al-
  though Tippett was by far the worst he wasn't the only player who seemed
  to think that meeting the kids/fans was an inconvenience. 
    

    As usally what a scum bag that jordan is.. And you didnt see the worst
    of it, after he signed the ball (IN typically clemans, magic, etc, etc
    etc fashion) and went back and stole the ball untill the kid could 
    produce $15 for the autograph... Man what a jerk.
    
    							M_Air_B :-)...

�                 -< The Babe would never have acted that way. >-
    
    Remember that kid that Babe visited in the hospital.  The one he
    promised to hit a homerun for?  Well, the Babe ran into the kids father
    a couple of years later.  He introduced himself and told him how much
    that visit meant to his son.  After the guy left, Babe turned to one of
    his teammates and asked "Who the hell was that?"

    
    
    Well, the Bulls looked pretty sad last night without Michael.  I know 
    these are all meaningless games, but will the Bulls be able to turn 
    it back on when they count?  
    
    Why so many Bulls fans in Richfield?  
    
    /Jeff

 oh that's easy Jeff it's because  "I want be like Mike"

 :^)

    I can in no way justify or apologize away Andre Tippett's behavior, if
    that indeed was what happened.
    
    I can understand and justify Michael Jordan's behavior to a certain
    extent - and not because he's Michael Jordan.
    
    Along with their stature as athletes comes the belief that they can
    solve any problem, cure any disease, help any cause - whatever, their
    mere presence can work miracles.  Well, it can't, but no one believes
    it.  While I agree athletes have an obligation to help in the
    community, they can't possibly do everything asked of them.  Miracles
    aside, there literally isn't enough time to do everything.
    
    Also, athletes get a very defensive posture about them in the sense
    that most people who approach them do so because of their stature and
    not because of the real person, and want something because of it. 
    (That's one of the reasons for the boom in paying for autographs.  As
    an aside, Dave Justice is alleged to have refused to sign a baseball
    card of himself that was going to be given to a sick child (the request
    coming from one of his teammates BTW) saying "he's probably going to
    sell it and split the proceeds with you.").
    
    Look at the Jordan case.  In every city he goes into there are probably
    pleas from folks begging him to say hello to sick children, speak in
    the neighborhoods about stay in school/stay off drugs, speak at a
    charity, whatever.  As he's coming out of the locker room, he sees this
    kid and may well be figuring to himself "Great, another sick kid, what
    do they expect me to do, lay my hands on him and cure him?"  In a more
    cynical moment he might say "How much money are they after me for?" 
    So, he only says hello for a minute and then goes.  This is especially
    true if Dee Brown didn't set it up right beforehand - and we don't know
    if we did or didn't.  All we have is the sensationalism of a TV station
    wanting to make Jordan look bad.
    
    I know we say "for the money these guys are making, they owe an
    obligation" and I agree, there's an obligation.  There's not an
    obligation to do everything.  There's not an obligation to do what's
    humanly impossible.  There's not an obligation to be perfect - these
    guys are still human and are entitled to have a bad day, make mistakes
    with their lives, get in arguments with their families and in short,
    they are entitled to be human.
    
    John

    	Anybody in here ever have a real "bad day"?  I sure have.  Athletes
    can't have "bad days" because when they do they're jerks.
    
    				/Don

    Yeah, /Don, I recall extending a high five to you when you were
    barreling down from 5-5 to the cafe. You scowled and huffed right past
    me.
    
    See Sportnoters? Even /Don, high paid DEC employee, can have a bad day.
    
    Rich
    

 >>  I can in no way justify or apologize away Andre Tippett's behavior, if
 >>  that indeed was what happened.
    
     I didn't make it up, John. It happened not three feet away from me and
     it was all I could do to keep my big mouth shut. My brother-in-law and
     I were stupefied. If I was that kid's dad I would have went ballistic. 
     The really sad part is that Tippett could have taken the same route as 
     the rest of the players and avoided the fans until they got to the sign-
     ing tent but he seemed to want to go out of his way to be an a--hole.
     I've taken my nephew to Picture Day for the last couple of years but I
     don't know if I want to put up with the attitude you get from a bunch of
     mopes that have never won squat.


 >>  Anybody in here ever have a real "bad day"?  I sure have.  Athletes
 >>  can't have "bad days" because when they do they're jerks.
    
     I've had bad days but I've never snubbed a little kid and I've never 
     forgotten how lucky I am to have what little I have. Some of these guys
     get to the point where they lose their sense of values and they squander 
     a hundred grand betting on golf or they ignore some little kid who looks 
     up to them like they're Zeus descended from Olympus. They're having a bad 
     day ? Fine then fake it, you get paid enough or better still pump gas
     for a week and tell me how bad that 'bad day' looks.
    

>    See Sportnoters? Even /Don, high paid DEC employee, can have a bad day.

Yeah, but he might have still been recuperating from his bout with Hare
Smithna...

TTom

    Then, I can in no way apologize for or justify what Tippett did.  I do
    have a suggestion though.  If you feel that strongly about it, you
    should contact Sam Jankovich (but keep me out of it, please) because he
    takes stuff like this very, very seriously (though it would have had
    more impact if it had been done right after the fact).
    
    John

    
     Actually John, what I did was write the Globe which is something I'd
    never done before. Unfortunately they didn't publish my letter. I liked
    Andre before that incident but now I hope they ship him to Green Bay or
    something.
    
    BTW - the nicest guy I met that day was old-timer Len St. Jean. I guess
          it takes being away from the game awhile to appreciate how lucky
          you really were.

    
    I've never claimed that all actions of all players are excusable.  In
    the case of Tippett, he's had a couple of off-field incidents that have
    landed him on the police blotter, far more serious incidents than what 
    you've described, Tommy.  Innocent until proven guilty, but after a
    couple arrests/convictions, you do have to wonder...
    
    I just don't know what that has to do with Michael Jordan, though. 
    Athletes are no more the same than you or I are.  They're not all good
    and they're not all bad.  I usually reserve personal judgment until 
    when I meet up with someone in person (as Tommy did with Tippett). 
    Otherwise, how do we feel we know anything about these people?  If
    we're predisposed to believing that they're all rotten because they
    make some money doing what they're good at, then they never really
    have a chance, do they?
    
    glenn
    

    Len St. Jean? Was he a center around '74, I think I have an old
    football card of him. 

    Len St Jean - G - Northern Michigan - 1964-73 - cut in 1974 preseason.
    
    John

 Does anyone think if this series goes to a game 7 that Scotty Piddlypants will
 get another migrane? Talk about a disappearing act. I think his coronation to
 superstar status as been proven to be a bit premature. To think he actually
 had the gall to criticize the LEGEND!!!!!!!!!

  come back when you're a main Scooter Scotty.....

 mike

    re: .434
    
    > To think he actually had the gall to criticize the LEGEND!!!!!!!!!
    
    huh? I am sure I missed something here.
    
    Would LOVE to see this series go 7 games. Repeat this mantra, in game 7
    anything can happen. Of course the question is can the Knick not die in
    the final minutes ala games 2 and 5?
    
    The Crazy Met
    

>>  huh? I am sure I missed something here.huh? 

 Back in feb. when the Bulls blew away the Celtics, Pippen was in the news the
 next day running down Bird ala Rodman style. Who the heil does he think he is?
 His greatest claim to fame is still that he plays with Michael. He reminds me
 of another whipping boy by the name of Jimmy Clang. He's great with his partner
 but without he can't carry the team....

 The capitals were directed at Doc in case he thought I was going senile
 with my support...

 ;^)

 sorry about that TCM, I'm apt to start a tangent anywhere. atleast I started
 in the correct note for a change of pace...

 mike 

 Some Choice Riley comments for you Slasher:

 "this is not a game for the Sisters of Mercy, This is a very, very physical
  game."

  In reply to P. Jackson (calling the kettle black) who labled the knicks
  a "dirty team"

 "To me, it's utterly rediculous that a couple of hard fouls tourn out to
  be a 48-minute game"

 mike

    The thing that kills me is they called 2 hard fouls (delibrate fouls)
    So Chicago got 2 free thows and the ball each time and turned that
    into 0 POINTS....  Thats Bad...... Phil has to try something, hes
    losing it (the battle of the coaches).  Lucky for Phil he has the
    more talanted team becasue if the games were decided strictly by
    Coaching hed get swept.  I still say Game 4 was the bulls if he left
    BJ in and Paxson on the bench.... Game 6 tonight, should could
    hopefully its OVER....
    
    							M.Air.B

    
     First of all on this Pippen-Bird thing, Pippen did not say any-
    thing that hasn't been echoed by numerous people including Celtics 
    and Celtics' fans.
    
     Secondly, Brooksie on this Pat Riley thing, Riley is an excellent
    coach not just a whiner with excellent timing. If all it took to be
    a successful NBA coach was to know when to bitch then there's a few
    thousand folks with excellent potential wandering the halls of DEC.
    
     Thirdly, (off on a tangent) while I'm not ready to concede the series
    just yet I will say that IMHO this Cleveland squad has the talent, the
    balance and the coach to beat anybody ,yes anybody, in a seven game
    series.

    
>    a successful NBA coach was to know when to bitch then there's a few
>    thousand folks with excellent potential wandering the halls of DEC.
    
    Good one, Tommy!  
    
    Wish I had the confidence you seem to have in the Cavs..  They're
    playing well, but I wish they could maintain the level  of play we saw
    last night throughout all their games.  Game 2 is a classic example of 
    what happens when the Cavs don't play inspired ball.  
    
    /Jeff
    

    Well thats why I was hoping the celtics would somehow take out the
    Cavs.  The Bulls will have a hard time with the cavs but I think they
    would have taken the celtics in 5.  Of course the bulls could still
    lose to the NY Knickerbonkers and Jordan could be Golfing early  NOT..
    
    Please end the Knicks enevitable fate tonight... Thank you.
    
    All I have to say is Jordan nor Pippen have had a big game yet, there
    both due... I hope they win tonight without either one of them
    exploding so they can save it for the Cleveland Series.
    
    								M.Air.B

    Jordan got 37 in game 5, not sure what you define as a big game.
    Love to see Cavs-Knicks conference final, but you know that if the
    Bulls miraculously lose to the Knicks NBC would love a Boston-NY
    series. I would put my money (no p-name left to bet) on Cavs-Bulls
    series.
    
    Mets in '92
    TheCrazy (blah) Met
    

    Yes 37 is alot of points, but what % of his shots did he make and
    how many were from the line.  Both him and Pippen have been shooting
    poorly, if either one were hitting ther shot % the series would be
    over....
    							M.Air.B

The Celtics have the ability to make many teams "look" good.  Remember Indiana?
NBA history, 16 flags, Boston Garden and the LEGENDS will do that.  Good copy
and a rite of passage for many a team.

The Cavaliers are truely a good team, but the Bulls are not the Celtics.
The Cavaliers may even be peaking too early.  We'll see, they haven't won 
it YET!!!!

		Bob Cohen

    Well /Don was right there will be a game 7..Knicks crushed the Bulls
    with a tough D in the 4th quarter to win by about 12.....I think the
    Bulls only scored like 16 pts in the 4th quarter....
    
    Tom

    Knicks outscored Da Bulls 30-16 in the 4th, includeing the first 13
    points of the quarter. Awesome.
    
    Mets in '92
    The Crazy Met
    

      No sweat! as long as Pippen shows.  If not,  Mikie won't be able to
    carry the load IMO.
    
      I must say that this series has gone alot farther than I predicted. 
    Hats off to Riley and his team for playing some great ball,  physical
    or not!
    
    	Tim

       Gotta hand it to Patrick. The guy was playing on one laig! Hope
    he's okay for Sunday.
                                       Denny

    
    The Knicks are playing the same type basketball that the Pistons
    have been playing.  Only last year Phil Jackson convinced the
    refs to call the game tighter.  It was reported that Krause tried
    to influence the refs before the series even started with the Knicks.
    
    \pjb

>    The Knicks are playing the same type basketball that the Pistons
>    have been playing.  Only last year Phil Jackson convinced the
>    refs to call the game tighter.  It was reported that Krause tried
>    to influence the refs before the series even started with the Knicks.
>    
>    \pjb


Eh, Phil, 'ow was Canada, eh?


;^)

Yea, credit to the Knicks, they sucked it up last night, and held tough when 
the Bulls made their run.  Seventh should be interesting.

=Bob=

    How long before the comparisons to Willis Reed? (Puke) 8^)
    
    Knicks rose to the occasion. With any luck(und skill) tonight, we'll
    get ta see a doubleheader on Sunday afternoon.
    
    MikeL
    

       Hey Brooksie, gettin' noivous??
                                      Denny  8^)

    Accodring to ex-Bulls coach Doug Collins, the Bulls likely felt that
    with the Knicks upset (?) of the Pistons, the Bulls felt like they were
    home free, since the "only" physical team in the East was gonzo.
    
    Suprise ... :-)

    	So Doc, do you think Riley will suspend Starks for his cheapshot
    on Pippen since he doesn't condone that sort of thing?
    
    				/Don

    What happens when Pippen and co. play face a more physical
    international game in the Olympics... I hope Scottie is ready
    for it...

    re: .456
    
    Thats ok, some players on that team, ie Ewing will know how to play
    that kind of game, so will Barkley. Pippen will just soak up bench
    time.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

I thought the clemsuck refs (tm) did their best to try and keep Chicago in
the game for a least the firsted half last night. 

First Jordan nails the X man with both the body and then rakes him with the
arm.....no call...

Then oakley pounds somebody down low...no call...

Then Jackson gets a touch foul called against him...

I'm glad the Knicks overcame the clemsuck refs (wierd to get clemsuck refs on 
your home court) to win last night.....Ewing's drive to the hoop on a bum ankle
was a joy to behold....

Metz
 

    Yo Slasher, are you willing to conceed :
    
    1) The Celtics used thug tactics in 1984-86 ?
    2) McHale was pond scum for clothesling Rambis in 1984 ? 
    2a) McHale should have been suspended for it ?
    3) That the Celtics brand of so-called "blue-collar basketball", was in
    fact thug tactics and deserving as such ?
    4) M.L. Carr was a cheepshot artist ?
    5) Danny Ainge was in the same mode ?
    6) Red Auerbach enjoys picking up thugs like Carr, Clyde Lovelette, and
    Jim Lostucuff ?
    
    If you can say YES to all six points, I'll meet ya halfway.
    
    Until then, you are nothing more than a craven, pandering, hyporcrite.
    
    Nuff said.
    
    Doc

    
    I ain't the Slash but I'll take a stab.
    
    1.Nope
    2.Yup
    2a.Yup
    3.Nope
    4.Nope.
    5.Nope, jest a whiner
    6. ??? What the hail is this statement? Was Wayne Embry a thug,Willie
     Naulls?, Bailey Howell, Paul Silas? You're reachin'
    
    MikeL
    

    Did I menion Embry, Naulls, or Silas (who I liked to watch play) ???
    
    No.

    Same type of players as Loscutoff and Lovellete.
    

    -x,y and z... MOve this talk to a note that cares... The Lakers are
    gone the Celtics are gone.. This is the Bulls note.. And Denny am I
    nervous, not any move :-).  The bulls came out and played they way
    I thought they would have player from game 1-4 in a series sweep. But
    they had to come back after a week's rest and lose the opener and lead
    NY to believe that they were actually a good team NOT...  The truth 
    came out with there backs against the wall the best team won.  Now the
    question is, if the bulls were laxed due to having a week off then they
    should come out on fire tuesday night at home in the 1st game of the
    Eastern Finals.  A month ago I would have said bulls all the way over
    cleveland but Now Im not so sure ... Ill be rooting the bulls all the
    way but If they try to play Cleveland shot for shot they will lose. 
    They ave going to have to do what the cletics should have done, drive
    the lane get there big men in foul troulbe and get to the line.  This
    series is easily winnable for the Bulls if they drive the lane. 
    Outside shooting game will be won by the cavs....
    							M.Air.Brooks

    re: .463
    
    >> and lead NY to believe that they were actually a good team NOT
    
    Did we watch the same series?? No argument that the Bulls are a better
    team. One of the marks of a good team is playing their game which the
    Knicks were able to do for 6 of 7 games. For the Knicks to have won the
    NBA Championship this year would have taken a minor miracle, but the
    difference between not being a good team and not winning it all is a
    huge one. Enjoy the rest of the playoffs. This is one Knick fans that
    feels no animosity towards the Bulls, other than Phil Jackson mouthing
    off and some of Pippen's trash they're an ok team.
    
    Mets in '92
    The Crazy Met
    

    Like about 99% of the sports world No one would have guessed that NY
    could beat the bulls twice let alone 3 times in a 7 games series.
    The bulls swept NY last year in the playoffs, took NY in all the
    regular season games and where on fire, if not for the week off and
    Chicago getting out of sinc it would have been a totaly different
    series.  They wont admit it but when NY traveled into Chicago Im sure
    that some of them were thinking, I HOPE WE DONT GET BLOWN AWAY TOO
    BAD, next thing you know the bulls are Ice Cold and the Knicks are
    red hot, once they won that first game (confidence builder) many of 
    the knicks were playing at a higher level then ever before.  Once they
    started to believe they could actually beat the bulls the bulls were
    in for Trouble.  I think this first game in the Cavs series is very
    important for the Bulls they cant start out down a game and give the
    Cavs any more confidence then they already have.  It must have been a
    huge emotinal drain on many of the knicks playing with that much
    emotion and they were bound to get worn out and return to there regular
    season form (7th game).  I will give them credit for game 6, backs
    against the wall (like the celtics) and they fight it out for a game 7
    but then again how often do jordan and pippen shoot a combined 25% ?.
    
    I wonder what the Bulls would have to give up to get a top quality
    center to go with Jordan/Pippen/Grant/BJ paxson's getting old I think
    BJ's just about ready.  Some how some way I want to see the bulls get
    a big name big man.
    
    							M.Air.B

    RCASO lives !
    
    AirBrooks, don't give us that crap. The Bulls came in taking the Knicks
    lightly, and got burned. And then they got serious and found out that
    the Knicks were well-coached, executing, and WINNING.
    
    Chicago got out of sync, because NY knocked them out of sync.

    re: Jordan and Pippen shooting 26%.
    
    Sure that does not happen often. But look at the first 6 games and the
    Knicks had to be doing something right to hold down the shooting
    percentage of those 2.
    
    Right on about game one with the Cavs. Of course Cavs were 2-3 against
    the Bulls this year. Once again the 2 top teams (by record) make it to
    the East Finals. When was the last time that did not happen??
    
    Mets in '92
    The Crazy Met
    

    Will Pippen do another disappearing act during the Cavs series?

    Perhaps, depends on the assignments.  Daugherty should do real well on
    Cartwright.  Nance vs. Pippen would be real intersting but he may play
    Grant and put Sanders on Pippen.  What did Lenny do in the regular
    season?  Would he put Ehlo on Pippen the way he put him on Lewis for
    some of the games?
    

    -4, the key word here is Knocked, the Knickeds KNOCKED there HEADS
    out of SINC.  A team on a roll is hard to beat, both Chicago and
    Cleveland have to feel pretty good about themselves and both are 
    coming in on a high.  In the NY vs Chic series Id give the emotion
    (roll) to the Knicks, they had just won a game 5 (backs against the
    wall) while the Bulls were coming off a sweep and spent too much time
    reading about how they would sweep thru to a repeat.  I think this
    series will help them towards repeating rather than take any thing
    away from them.  My biggest worry is not Price but the frontcourt,
    the cavs have big guys WITH talant rather than just big guys, although
    there not as big as NY.... Purdue will play a HUGE ROLL in this series
    He needs to play some qual Mins or Cartwright will be toast.  Jordan
    and pippen should have a good series but BJ and Paxson will be in
    trouble as well.  I think this should be a great Basketball Series.
    Two GREAT BASKETBALL TEAMS playing BASKETBALL.... No Thuggary as far
    as I can see, cartwright might have big elbows but I dont think anyone
    worrys about him or considers him a force...
    
    	I cant wait untill tuesday night, Im having withdrawals already..

    If you think your having withdrawals now, wait until the Blazers KNOCK
    your precious Bulls OUT in the Finals.
    
    Glen.

    
    Michael Jordan, the best player on the planet and indeed in the best
    player to ever lace up a pair of sneakers, has won his third MVP trophy.
     

    	Leave it to Midnight to bring in all kinds of extemporaneous
     crap when he's losing the arguement.  The point I was making has
    nothing to do with your six points.  Plain and simple, when Riley
    said the kind of ball the Celtics played was goonism you agreed,
    then when his team played that kind of ball and called it mainly, you
    agreed again.  I have no problem with the Knicks physical brand
    of ball, but will not let you pull this 180� without an explanation.
    
    				/Don

    Come on Slash, you do a p**s-poor impersonation of MrT when it comes to
    obfusticating.
    
    Either s**t or get off the pot !
    
    Doc

    Doc,
    How cain he agree when five of your six points are so brazely 
    subjective and biased?
    
    MikeL
     

    
    Does anybody have the score for last's night game, I am stuck over in
    Ireland where Basketball news is hard to come by.Hey what a brave show
    put up by the Hawks on Monday night,you just got to love them a bit
    like the Cubbies.
                          Pat
    

    
    Game 1 is tonight.
    

    Nobody won.  They're still tied after 7 OT's.

    
     Sorry guys 
                 Pat
    

    
     re .480
    
     Nothing to be sorry about.

    I can give you the score now, the Bulls won 122-89.  The Blazers shot
    like 65% from the field in the first half and were down by 15.  WHY
    because jordan was in the middle of setting 3 records.  He was 6-9
    from 3pt land, breaking the record for most 3pts in a 1/2 and tying
    the record for most 3pts in a game.  He also broke a 30year old record
    set by Elgin Baylor for most pts in a 1/2, was 33 jordan scored 35.
    The 3rd qtr where jordan only scored 4pts and played minimul minutes
    was the iceing, at one point the bulls were up by 40......
    
    Onto game 2, Friday night in Chicago at 9pm eastern time.  I will try
    to enter a note in here friday night or saturday morning for you over
    seas folks...
    							M.Air.B
    of course if they lose I may not have the energy

    I think it's now 35* (see note in NBA) topic...
    

    Did anyone happen to videotape the last game between Da-Bulls, and the
    Trailblazers?????
    
    I am trying to do a favor for a friend in Geneva.  I would like to send
    a copy for his son, who is a huge Air Jordan fan.
    
    I am aware that European standards are different, but can get the US
    version converted.  I will accept a copy taped either in the US or
    Europe.
    
    Can anyone help me????
    
    Thanks,
    
    Susan Powers
    GOLF::POWERS
    

In a survey on celebrities, tied into marketing (survey to adults), Mr. Air
fell from 4th to 34th this year.  Despite the cries and whines of certain
noters in here, the fall among adults of Jordan's popularity was not just
JD.  Once again, you guys are wrong.

He does still remain very popular among kids.  Maybe that's why some of you
were so upset when I poked holes in his Phoniness' public persona.

JD

    
> In a survey on celebrities, tied into marketing (survey to adults), Mr. Air
> fell from 4th to 34th this year.  Despite the cries and whines of certain
> noters in here, the fall among adults of Jordan's popularity was not just
> JD.  Once again, you guys are wrong.
    
    Wrong about what?
    
    glenn
    

Glenn -
That I was the only one who had anti-Jordan sentiments.  You know, one of
Mac's "Tilting at Windmills" type anti-JD tirades...

JD

       What makes you think that just because he fell in the 'polls' that
    that means people are "anti-Jordan"? Pretty big conclusion to jump to!
                                        Denny

    
    "The Poll" means that JD is of the same mind set as a large portion of
    Americans who are into pop culture.  If that's being right, I'll be
    wrong, thank you.
    
    Brews 

Bruce -

Huh?  Pop culture?  What is pop culture?  I don't have a clue what it is?

I'm sure a quiche eater like you does, though.

It means that His Airness isn't seen as a demi-God by many of adults.  Which
is great.  

Denny - actually I did use a wrong term.  I'm not anti-Jordan.  He's a fantastic
hoops player.  I just don't see him as a good role model.  

Jd

 >> Denny - actually I did use a wrong term.  I'm not anti-Jordan.  

    Of course you're not. How the hell could anyone come to such a rid-
    iculous conclusion (even if it was yourself) ? Why it's absurd. One 
    need only sift through your notes here in 49.* to see that you're no 
    more Anti-Jordan than Hannibal Lechter was anti-social. It's amazing
    how these little misunderstandings get started !
    

 wow Tom welcome back.....it'd been too long since we heard from ya...

 Slasher, I'm still rooolllllliiiinnnnnn''''''''!!!111!@!123
                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                                in memory of Dinz

 

Tommy.

Hannibal Lecter was EXTREMELY social.  He just like to eat people instead
of talk with them....8^)


'Saw

    I don't see Air as a role model either and I think he's great, but 
    overrated in hoops.  

 care to explain the reasons behind the overrated statement?

 mc

    
     Take it with a grain of salt, Mike. Mike Heiser is the same guy who
    called Scottie Pippen the best player in Chicago and he actually 
    thought that a Western Conference team had a chance of being anything
    but a speed bump for either Cleveland or Chicago last year.
    

>     Take it with a grain of salt, Mike. Mike Heiser is the same guy who
>    called Scottie Pippen the best player in Chicago and he actually 
    
    You're wrong Tommy.  Never said that.  
    
    I'm not so sure Air is the best player to ever touch a basketball like
    some assume.  
    
    Mike

>   I'm not so sure Air is the best player to ever touch a basketball like
>   some assume.  
    
 
    Trust me he is. It kills me too cause Russell used to be THE MAN!!!

 mike 

    re: .499
    
    Still think that Bird and Magic in their prime were better than Jordan.
    Sure Jordan scores more but Bird and Magic did the other things -
    assists, rebounds,  elevating the level which their teammates played -
    better than Jordan.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

>    Still think that Bird and Magic in their prime were better than Jordan.
>    Sure Jordan scores more but Bird and Magic did the other things -
>    assists, rebounds,  elevating the level which their teammates played -
>    better than Jordan.
    
Bird and Magic made the league.  The literally MADE the league.

Jordan is good, but I doubt he'll ever accomplish, in that sense, what
Magic and Larry did.....


'Sa    

I think Jordan is as talented as Magic and Bird, but does not have the 
leadership of either of them.  Also, the timing was more right for Bird and 
Magic to make major impacts.  Those guys took it to a new level.  Jordan is in 
it for the money.

 all three players are in a different posistion. all three have been asked to
 do different things for their team. When Michael has been asked to take the
 point he goes there and turn triple doubles. Neither of the other two can hold
 a candle to Michael defensively. Michael still has less surrounding talent than
 either Bird or Magic had. Bird and Magic timing as saviors for the league is
 alot of poob. David Sterns' marketing genuis is what turned the league around.
 
 Also Bird and Magic are still number 3 with Russell being number 2.....

  mike

    
        re .503
    
        I agree 100%.

    
    Jordan also appears to be in it for the champeenships.  If he doesn't
    raise the level of his teammates' play then apparently he doesn't need
    to.  Will he do something Magic or Bird never did-- win three in a 
    row-- without nearly the amount of talent those two had around them?  
    How many present Chicago Bulls are HOFers?  One.  Michael Jordan.  #1.
    
    glenn
    

Put me in the group that thinks Mr Jordan is the bestest ever. Don't get
me wrong, he ain't my favorite but he's the Greatest.

TTom

    	I agree with my Brother_Jihad.  You want to talk about "raising
    the level of their team"?  Think about what Grant or Pippen would
    be without SIR MICHAEL.  Put SIR MICHAEL on either the '79 Lakers
    or '79 Celtics and see what you get (more titles).  Case closed.
    
    				/Don

        <<< OOBIE::OOBIE$DKA200:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOSTON_CELTICS.NOTE;1 >>>
              -< Welcome Back to the Boston Celtics Conference! >-
================================================================================
Note 27.1067                        NBA News                        1067 of 1067
LCALOR::PETRIE "I feel lucky today"                  27 lines  17-SEP-1992 09:20
               -< timeout from the "Database Concepts" book... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(unrelated stuff removed)


  Bulls/Heat Benefit Game
  -----------------------
  Just to tell you it's real, Jordan *will* play, and the 700 floor seats 
  are being given by the Heat to homeless kids from the Homestead/Florida
  City area.  Appears this was M_Jordan's idea:  as he & Billy Cunningham
  were playing golf a couple weeks ago, Mike asked BC if there was anything
  he could do to help the cause.  Presto:  exhibition game.
    
    (unrelated stuff removed)

    Mac -
    
    So, what's the big deal?  The Pats, the BYU teams, and others are doing
    charity for the hurricane victims too.
    
    But, thanks.  At least I know you still don't get it.  Keep trying
    though.  One day you may see the light.
    
    I'm happy that the heat and bulls are doing this.  Congrats.
    
    Sorry to disappoint ya.
    
    JD

    besides, if Jordan really wanted to help the victims, he'd charge those
    homeless kids for their seats.
    
    Brews

    Jordan was subpoenaed to testify on Oct. 19th in the trial of the N.C.
    drug dealer.
    
    BTW - USA Today sports is available on Usenet now, but its copyrighted.
    
    Mike

>    BTW - USA Today sports is available on Usenet now, but its copyrighted.
    
Which news group?

    Yeah, which newsgroup. I run a full newsfeed and haven't seen
    this one yet.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    usa-today.sports
    usa-today.scores
    
    usa-today.ads
    usa-today.bonus
    usa-today.energy
    usa-today.health
    usa-today.inter
    usa-today.invest
    usa-today.issues
    usa-today.law
    usa-today.news
    usa-today.real
    usa-today.snap
    usa-today.tech
    usa-today.travel
    usa-today.weather
    usa-today.banks
    usa-today.insur
    usa-today.telcom
    usa-today.trends 

       you forgot:
    alt.sex.hamster.ducttape!
                                  Denny

    Mike,
    
    Are you able to read the USA Today newsgroups from within DEC??
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    nntpd does not read USA Today... maybe I'll try nntpd2 and see...

>    nntpd does not read USA Today... maybe I'll try nntpd2 and see...
    
    I told you it was NNTPD2!

    I KNOW you did...  I NORMALLY use nntpd.... I will TRY nntpd2...

    
     According to today's Globule, Michael Jordan has been named one
    of People Magazine's `Best Dressed'. If I know Michael (and who 
    knows him better ?), this award means more to him than the MVP or 
    the NBA Championship or the Olympic Gold Medal.

 >    According to today's Globule, Michael Jordan has been named one
 >   of People Magazine's `Best Dressed'. If I know Michael (and who 
 >   knows him better ?), this award means more to him than the MVP or 
 >   the NBA Championship or the Olympic Gold Medal.


And it ALL starts with Hanes underwear.

Right this very minute I am wearing Hanes Underwear.  Wny?
Because I wannabe like Mike.

In fact, I might give up plain white for some of those different colored
ones he shills with his dad.


Why, I'll bet if I do that, that my life might turn around.  Why, in the
future, I could even win a Pulitzer Prize.  Or maybe the Nobel Prize
for Literature.  And the Peace Prize ALL in the SAME YEAR!

And then, then, after all of that, I might even be named People Magazine's
Best Dressed.....


Sigh!  Oh, I WannaBe Like Mike!



'Saw

    >> Right this very minute I am wearing Hanes Underwear.  
    
       Number one on the list of things I didn't need to know.
    
    >> Wny?
    
       That's number two.
    

8^)

    Has anyone seen Pete Rose and Sir Nike at the tracks together?

    
    Oh, and I'm not even goint to mention Micke's gambling and the
    speci��al treatment he'll get.   I was right,once again, on this issue,
    though the Mike "Master Baiters" didn't agree.
    
    JD

    'sawmain,
    
    Yabbut about the Haynes you're wearing,
    
    
    
    are they the ones WITH or WITHOUT the skid marks?
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    particularly fond of the dark_brown colored ones (for obvious reasons)!
    Kev for Doctah_midracing_striped_shorts
    

    	Nothing wrong with placing a wager every now and then.  Makes
    a main out of you...
    
    				/Don

    Yeah Slashmain,
    I bets you quaff mo' RW&B's on Sunday than the Patriots point
    total!!
    
    8^),
    MikeL
    

   
    >> I was right,once again, on this issue, though the Mike "Master Baiters"
    >> didn't agree.
    
    >> JD
    
       Folks won't give you credit for being right and you never admit to
       being wrong. Kind of all evens out, don't it ?

    
     JD, my good friend, do not be thrown by my steadfast refusal to
     use smiley faces. I *know* you've been wrong lots of times.
    
    

    Jordan testified in court yesterday.  He wasn't on trial, but the guy
    he gave all that money to was.  Under oath Mike admitted that the money
    paid was the result of gambling debts.  He said the reason that he
    didn't admit this earlier was to avoid embarrassment. 

   I've said this before but I know you guys get a kick out seeing me
  drone on and on about the same stupid little thing ad nauseum until 
  the mindnumbing boredom of it all is enough to reduce you to a bundle 
  of raw nerves and almost cause your little brains to snap like an 
  overstretched rubberband in the hands of an 8 year old and send you
  running amok in the office, each of you, like little tasmanian devils.
  So...



     The only thing that bothers me about Jordan's gambling, being a degen-
    erate gambler myself, is that, although its his money, he could put it
    to better use. Like give it to charity. Like so many people who come upon 
    fame and fortune quickly he seems to have lost his perspective. I don't 
    doubt that he already does a lot for charity but pissing away that kind
    of dough still seems foolish to me. Never mind the role model issue and 
    the watching the company you keep issue.
  
    

He coulda bought a lotta Cheez Whiz wif dat money!

    
    
    This was in the Detroit sports section.  A tongue in cheek commentary
    about the proceedings.
    
    P = prosecutor,  W = witness J = Judge D = defense attorney.
    
    P: State your name and occupation, please
    
    W:  Michael Jeffrey Jordan, professional basketball player and innocent
    dupe of golf hustlers.
    
    P;  Your honor!  will you caution the witness to simply answer the
    question without trying to be cute?
    
    J:  Counselor, I don't believe Mr. Jordan was being out of line here.
    And by the way, I want to thank you, Mr. Jordan for the autograph.  It
    was very considerate.
    
    W:  think nothing of it, you honor; I'm just that kind of guy -
    thoughtful, considerate ...
    
    P:  Your Honor!  Mr. Jordan is trying to make us believe he's a Boy
    Scout.
    
    W:  That's why the whole world wants to be like Mike.
    
    It goes on like this for another couple of paragraphs.
    
    \pjb
    
    

    Just curious, how much money do people spend on lets see
    
    Bingo/Lottory/Las Vegas nights/Friendly Card Games/Football cards
    Friendly Wagers with Friends etc etc etc
    
    And then compare that to what you give to charity, and I dont mean
    can food drives, or bags of cloths, money, cash.
    
    I have no doubt in my mind that jordan gives more money to charity
    then he loses in gambling (I mean he has to win once in awile :-). )
    
    Of course some people dont do any of the above things but some of us
    do.  I play $2 every day on the lottery and occasionaly a little more.
    My wife goes to bingo about once a week.  We go to 2 Las Vegas nights
    a year, plus any misc $$$ spent on football cards (oh for fun only)
    football pools, superbowl pools, World series pools etc... And then
    maybe once a year take a trip to Connecticut or Atlantic city.
    
    Well guess what STRING ME UP BY MY TOENAILS, I could/should be giving
    this to a charity instead of pissing it away.  I guess me and jordan
    do have something in common.
    
    Of course of you want to get stupid (which many people in this
    notesfile do) A statement could be made like Instead of Poluting the
    air and commiting slow suicide, smokers could give there $$$ to charity
    instead of buying Butts... :-)
    
    I spend less on my VICE (gambling) then most people spend on Smoking

Article 5530 of clari.sports.basketball:
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Path: nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!news.crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!uunet!looking!clarinews
From: [email protected] (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball,clari.local.illinois,clari.news.law.investigation
Subject: Jordan takes the stand
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 92 7:37:04 PDT
Lines: 79

	CHARLOTTE, N.C. (UPI) -- Chicago Bulls basketball star Michael Jordan
admitted that a $57,000 check he sent to a Charlotte drug and money-
laundering defendant was a payoff for a gambling debt.
	Jordan sat for barely five minutes on the witness stand Thursday in
Charlotte's federal courthouse in the trial of Monroe professional
golfer James L. ``Slim'' Bouler, but the basketball star's brief
appearance turned the front yard and halls of the staid building into a
media circus reminiscent of the Jim Bakker trial.
	Cameras, reporters and a scattering of young and old fans preceded
Jordan's silent entry into the courthouse and impeded his exit.
	In the less than 30 minutes Jordan's appearance took, he told the U.
S. District Court jury the $57,000 he paid Bouler last year ``was what I
lost in golf match play, gambling and later in poker.''
	Jordan said his initial response that the check was a loan to Bouler
came ``to save embarrassment and pain and the connection to gambling.''
	He was investigated by the NBA, which doesn't prohibit the kind of 
``stakes golf'' Jordan played in Hilton Head, S.C., with Bouler,
Gastonia bail bondsman Eddie Dow and others.
	The league found no wrongdoing on Jordan's part, and he has not been
linked in any way to the investigation of Bouler.
	Jordan said he met the defendant ``through a third-party
introduction'' four years ago, played golf with Bouler in Charlotte,
Pinehurst and Monroe ``eight or 10 times'' before the 1991 Hilton Head
trip and set up the high-stakes, $1,000-a-hole Nassau tournament through
an unnamed third party.
	Jordan admitted he has played stakes golf for $20 to $1,000 a hole
before, and that on the Hilton Head trip Bouler had also loaned him
money that was repaid with part of the $57,000 check.
	A Monroe bank account containing the Jordan check was seized by
federal agents last October as a ``substitute asset'' in the Bouler drug
and money-laundering case.
	Earlier this year, a federal judge ordered the money returned to
Bouler after defense attorney James Wyatt petitioned the court.
	But U.S. District Judge Robert Potter, presiding in this week's
trial, allowed agents to freeze the account again after Bouler was
indicted.
	Outside the courthouse after Jordan's testimony, his father, James
Jordan, said his son ``is just like every other guy who walks on the
street.
	``The only perfect one I know of is God,'' the elder Jordan told
reporters. ``He's not God, he's just Michael Jordan.''
	Jordan's appearance came in the middle of Bouler's own defense
testimony Thursday, during which he offered the jury his own versions of
the various events for which he has been charged.
	Bouler, 41, said he helped convicted Charlotte drug kingpin James
Edward ``Ned'' Johnson buy a $41,000 Mercedes in 1989 to help him hide
the purchase from a girlfriend.
	The car was paid for with cash, which Bouler and other defense
witnesses said ``wasn't unusual'' in the black community.
	Bouler denied knowing that Johnson and convicted drug dealer William
Hill ``Pee Wee'' Givens were involved in the drug trade. He said he
thought the men were in the construction business.
	But Johnson testified earlier this week that Bouler was a cocaine
supplier for him and Givens, and that when Bouler was apprehended at the
Charlotte airport in 1990 carrying more than $153,000 in cash, the money
had been intended for a Houston, Texas, drug buy that didn't
materialize.
	Bouler countered $25,000 of the money was his, and the rest came from
Givens to stake him in a golf match that never panned out.
	The defendant appeared relaxed and affable during his 90 minutes on
the witness stand Thursday. He talked about his charity golf
tournaments, which he said were to benefit a scholarship fund, senior
citizens and the Optimist Club.
	He read letters he had received thanking him for contributions to
Wingate College, Barber-Scotia College and a ``Kids Against Drugs''
campaign he supported.
	Regarding his 1986 and 1987 convictions for cocaine possession,
Bouler said he got the 1986 cocaine from a golfer in Atlanta as payment
for a debt, then sold it for $45 to a Union County undercover officer.
	Cocaine found in his house in 1987 actually belonged to the sister of
a friend, Bouler said.
	He pleaded guilty in each of those cases and received probationary
sentences.
	Probation officers and Bouler himself testified that he never used
drugs himself, didn't gamble except to bet on golf and had never seen
some of those who testified against him until they walked into the
Charlotte courtroom.
	At one point during his testimony, Wyatt asked Bouler how the past
year had affected him, and the defendant covered his eyes and cried.

>    Well guess what STRING ME UP BY MY TOENAILS, I could/should be giving
>    this to a charity instead of pissing it away.  I guess me and jordan
>    do have something in common.
    
Wow, after reading this whole note, I can only offer the following
advice:

	Call

		Charter Hospital of Las Vegas for
		specialize gambling treatment

			1-800-362-7711

		That's 
		
			1-800-362-two-pair-seven-high



Sounds like you got the gamblin' jones really bad!


As to Mikey, well, hell, if I had the money he's pissed away gambling
on "friendly" drug-dealer-wagers, why, I'd be able to run for 
President.


that number again,

	1-8700-362-7111


[many 8^)]

'Saw

    
      M_Air, Mike gets hustled by some druggie to the tune of 57 large
     ones and gets his ass hauled into court to testify in front of the
     whole world and you think that's just hunky dory. 
    

	Tommy, 57K to His Airness is like a sawbuck to you or I.  And
    why should Jordan be held to standards than we can't maintain
    ourselves?  He should be entitled to make mistakes every now and
    then.
    
    				/Don

I've got a Big One.  Does that mean that if I can find 56 other
Big Ones I can be like Mike?

I mean, I already wear Hanes.....


I wonder if Mike is gonna do any Cheez Whiz ads in the future?



'Saw

�      M_Air, Mike gets hustled by some druggie 
                                          ^
    Umm, Tommy, that's yet to be proven   |

|�      M_Air, Mike gets hustled by some druggie 
|                                          ^
|    Umm, Tommy, that's yet to be proven   |


M_Air, Mike gets hustled by some alleged druggie....



'Saw_for_Tommy

    
    I don't know if I'm a "Mike Master Baiter" (do buttons and stickers 
    come with the membership?), because I have defended Jordan against 
    gratuitous hero-bashing, but I'm flattered in any case.  This is all 
    very old news, unless you were one of the three people in captivity 
    known to have believed Jordan's original story that this payment was 
    a "loan".  I detailed it six months ago in .343 and .405 from SI and 
    Chicago Tribune stories.  Not only did Jordan gamble and lose to a 
    drug peddler and then lie about it, but he misled federal prosecutors
    during their investigation.  I said I thought he should have been 
    given a minimum 10-game suspension.  But I guess this is the cross 
    you've got to bear for being "wrong" when you're a prospective MMB 
    and proud of it.
    
    glenn
    

    
>|�      M_Air, Mike gets hustled by some druggie 
>|                                          ^
>|    Umm, Tommy, that's yet to be proven   |
>
>
> M_Air, Mike gets hustled by some alleged druggie....
    
    'Saw, M_Air, for Mac, via Tommy, Mike gets hustled by some *convicted*
    druggie and alleged tax cheat...
    
    glenn
    
    

�    during their investigation.  I said I thought he should have been 
�    given a minimum 10-game suspension.  But I guess this is the cross 
  
Gee, the fact the NBA cleared him of any wrong doing had nothing to do 
with the fact that it was "His Airness", did it?

�Gee, the fact the NBA cleared him of any wrong doing had nothing to do 
�with the fact that it was "His Airness", did it?
    
    Does the NBA have the same policy on gambling as MLB?  Should it?
    
    

    MLB's policy is that a player may not gamble on baseball, nothing else.
    
    Jordan did not gamble on an NBA game. 
    
    The Crazy Met
    

Mike better watch it. Nike is pretty upset at his Haynes ad. They
claim that it detracts from their use of his personna as a serious
basketball player to sell serious basketball shoes...

I guess those gang members buy the $150 pair of air because they
play serious basketball, not as fashion symbols....right...I guess
Nike will tell shoe stores only to sell their shoes to serious 
basketball players...anyone buying a pair of Air Nike must demonstrate
the ability to sink 3 consecutive foul shots before being able to buy a
pair of his airness's shoes...


Metz
 

    Hypothetically - suppose Charles Barkley was found to have gambled with
    a drug dealer?
    
    Suppose Stern would be Mr. No Comment?
    
    JOrdan could molest children and folks would find out a 'good' side to
    it.
    
    AMazing.  He's the teflon athlete.
    
    JD

>    Hypothetically - suppose Charles Barkley was found to have gambled with
>    a drug dealer?
    
    He has.  Sir Charles has played golf with Jordan lots of times ;-)

JD, better TM that "teflon athlete".  That's a classic.....

    
     There are some folks for whom Jordan can do no wrong and others for
    whom he can do no right. Some folks see nothing wrong with Mike's play-
    ing golf with drug dealers and others try to convince us that skipping 
    out on meeting the prez is a capital offense. Such is the nature of
    superstardom.

    > MLB's policy is that a player may not gamble on baseball, nothing else.
    > 
    > Jordan did not gamble on an NBA game. 
    
    That's MLB's only explicit policy, but players can and have been
    suspended for other gambling-related offenses.  Officially, that's what
    Pete Rose is banned for, although in reality he was suspended for
    betting on baseball without the agreement specifically saying so.
    
    I doubt that a suspension of Jordan for this offense is outside of the
    powers of the NBA commissioner. 
    
    As for Barkley; who you kidding JD, he's been coddled too.  This is the
    way it is with superstars, and Barkley also qualifies...
    
    glenn
    

Anybody read the 'sob' Alan Alda story on po' po' Air in Life magazine.

Heart wrenching, as Mike's spin doctors try to deflect any criticism
for his hanging with druggies by revealing thangs like po' air couldn't 
get no dates while in high school....

I was so teary eyed that I gotsta buy a nother magazine, the one I had
fell apart from all the tear stains.

Oh, po' po' Mikey.

and Air being the good company spokesman that he is, suggested that Charles
Barkley was the perfect guy to help carry on the NBA image with him now
that Larry and Magic are gone....

Didn't Barkley get fined by the league before for gambling???

;^)

    Hey, you leave Charles alone!  He's a fine young man that's just a
    little misunderstood.

    
    re: .560
    
    Were you saying that when Charles was still playing for the 76er's??
    Amazing what happens when a player changes teams :-)
    
    The Crazy Met
    

 I'll say one thing for Charles, he doesn't seem to be as full of himself as
 Po' Po' is......

 One thing I noticed over the weekend is that the NBA is business as usual.
 To breath on Air is to foul him.....

 and traveling and palming are still the most uncalled violations in the game.
 Check out Kenny Anderson's dribble when you get a chance. ...

 mike

    I've always been a Barkley fan!

 >>  -< ask any of my friends >-
    
     If I were a mean-spirited type...

    and I like Kenny Anderson, doncha know!
    
    

    
    >>and I like Kenny Anderson, doncha know!
    
    I thought he retired from the Bungholes a few years back!!
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Nope, differnt guy.
    
    However, after watching 3/4 of the game between da Nets and the Heat,
    all i gotta say is
    Kenny An erson!
    
    hth,
    Kev
    

    Boy some things never change.
    
    Bulls Beat Cleveland in there opener and then drop a 1 pointer to 
    the Hawks.  They rebounded last night by dropping Indiana, almost
    looked like they were going to lose but the refs and NBA commish
    made all the Pacers play with 1 hand behind there back so po po could
    score 10 of the last 12 to come from 7 down in the last 3 mins of the
    game.
    
    Bulls 2-1 on the season
    							M.Air.B

    
    	The Bulls will not make it a threepete!
    
    		Cavs are number 1 this year!
    
    
             o
    	Go CaVs!

       Think the Cavs will win 13 like the Browns?
                                    Denny

    
    
    Lets see..  last year I predicted no more than 50 and they won 57...  
    I think they have a shot at 60 this year, however, they'll have to 
    have a minimal amount of injuries, and do well on their western 
    swings.  
    
    /Jeff

    Well Being a Bulls Fan I have to root against Cleveland (In all sports)
    Im not to keen on a Three-Peat, I dont want another Lakers/Celtics in
    the Bulls/Trailblazers Id like to see some new blood in there, but if
    the Bulls play the Cavs I have to root for the bulls.
    
    How about those expansion teams !!!!! Id like to see all 3 Eastern
    Expansion teams in the Playoffs...  I hope Alonzo signs and starts
    playing, charlotte, Miami and Orlando could all be very competative
    teams this year.  Parity at its finist, too bad the West has all the
    teams that really SIP big time.  New York will take the East, Chicago
    the Central but An expansion team will upset New York and get into the
    eastern finals... I wonder who they will play ??? :-)
    								MaB

Well, Air Jordan missed last night's game with an injury.  It may be serious,
and it may not be.  He supposedly tore his plantar fascia in his left foot.
Celts fan may remember this happened to Havlicek once.

If it is, this may affect the rest of this season, and possibly beyond.  I've
known a few folks with it, and it is plain painful.  ONly 'cure' is rest,
followed by more rest.  The one person I knew who refused to rest ended
up being down and out on a regular basis...

Suffice to say, wifout Air, da Bulls have two chances for three-peat.  
Mr.
Whitman's first name and a woman wearing a habit.

JD

    Slim and None.

    Well if this be the Truth there's alot of safe records in the
    books the MJ wont be breaking(Tie).  He was on course to tie
    Wilts Record of 7 scoring titles, even though he leads in this
    catagory now I think you need a MINimum amount of games to win
    the scoring title (yes).  2 Rings is enough for MJ and if this
    is a possible career ending injury I hope he just Retires and 
    doesnt attempt to prolong it like Bird and Magic.  It just wouldnt
    be the same watching JOrdan if he was just average, this injury 
    could put him down at the same level as Drexler, wilkins and LJ.
    
    Oh well it looks like its wait and see time.  He can spend the next
    60 games resting and come back for the Playoffs, I doesnt matter
    where they place as long as they make the playoffs if they have MJ
    back healthy they will make a run at a Three-Peat, although I will
    repeat once again Id still prefer to see someone new at the top. 
    Was hoping the Heat would improve, but I guess not.  Maybe Atlanta
    will have a good year.
    
    							M.Air.B

>>Was hoping the Heat would improve, but I guess not.

  They're only 13 games into an 82-game season & those games have been played
  around injuries, illness & a contract holdout.  I figure the Heat are getting
  the losses out of the way early :^)  

  For crying out loud, M_Air - it's a long time between now & the end of April!
  Do you think the Orlando Magic will still be leading the Atlantic Division
  too?

  Kath

    How'd I get dragged into this?

    Aint you related to our late Poet Laureate?
    
    
    I remain,
    soiten he's yer uncle! ;^)
    Kev
    

    Sorry Kath, I didnt mean to Spit on your team so to speak but
    I really thought they would come out of the gates smoking, Hopefully
    your right and there getting the loses out early.
    
    I know its not likely but all 3 Eastern Expansion teams could make
    the Playoffs.  Orlando is coming out on fire and have a very solid
    team.  Miami and Charlotte have come out slowly but have the talant
    to keep in pace with the playoff teams in the east.  Should be a very
    intresting season.  The question is which Expansion team will finish
    higher in the standings, I think at LEAST 2 will be in the playoffs.
    
    Now for Chicago, theyll be in it, but I expect an Expansion team to
    give them a run for there money, and you heard it here first, if the
    bulls get knocked out of the playoffs before the finals it will be at
    the hands of an Expansion Team (OUCH)...
    
    							M-Air-B
    							(GO HEAT :-)

    Does anyone out there know what team Bill Cartwright played for before
    he joined the Bulls?
    
    Many Thanks.
     
    Ted.

    Wasn't he a Knickerbocker?

Yes he was but Ewing made him expensable. Hubie Brown used to try and play
the both of them together with Ewing playing the wing and Mr. Bill in the
hole. What a mistake that was......

mike

Cartwright was traded to the Bulls in the deal that brough Oakley to the Knicks.

The Crazy Met

    Cartwright popped Price upside the head last night with an elbow. 
    Price required 3 stitches to close the cut.