Conference 7.286::sports_91

    re-1,  Football also?
    
    	Five teams from the ACC made there way to a bowl game..Six counting
    Fla.St.  Results...
    
    	4 wins 
        1 loss
        1 tie...
    
    	not too bad for a basketball conference! Everybody I've talked to
    has really been impressed with the ACC this year. Seems like the ACC
    panzie schedule isn't all that bad.
    
    B.A. Go Pack!
    

    B-ball results...
    
    	State over C.U. 74-70
    	Wake over Terps 74-62
    
    	The ACC season is underway!
    
    Others...Tech beat Howard 84-77, Ya-hoos beat Marquette 94-88, Duke
    over Boston U. 109-55.
    
    B.A.

    Virginia 81, Duke 64
    
    Wahoos spank 8th-ranked Duke in the conference opener for both squads. 
    A nice 17-point win in front of the home folks.
    
    Bob Hunt

    re-1,
    	Jeff Jones C/O/Y ?  Don't expect the same out-come in Durham...
    
    	Clemson lost to the twerps...
    
    	State lost to Kansas...again!
    
    B.A.

    North Carolina 89, Virginia 86 in double overtime.
    
    Have I mentioned lately how much I hate those guys ???   This game was
    very simple to analyze ... the team with the last shot won it.  King
    Rice hit a prayer in the lane and the Hoos had no time left to respond.
    
    Eric Montross *almost* blew it at the close of regulation.  Carolina
    had the ball out of bounds with :01 second left and he inbounded it
    clear across court and into the stands.   No time elapsed and the ball
    went over to Virginia at the same spot Montross was.   Their
    last-second shot hit iron but didn't drop.
    
    Bob Hunt

>    North Carolina 89, Virginia 86 in double overtime.

I saw the last five minutes plus the two overtimes.   You don't have to
guess who I was pulling for.
    
>King Rice hit a prayer in the lane and the Hoos had no time left to respond.

Prayer isn't the word.   Divine Intervention is more like it.   This after Rice
almost single-handedly gave away the game by committing a stupid foul and also
holding the ball out by midcourt while being guarded long enough to get a five
second call.    Did you see how Rice was taunting the crowd after the game?
VERY un-Tar Heel like...  I'm still waiting to hear from ACC Chris as to how
Rice was punished for his assault.   Maybe Dean forced King to get that
haircut?
    
>    Eric Montross *almost* blew it at the close of regulation.

He also tanked two free throws at the end didn't he?   But I think Carolina
got the rebound on the second miss.   I'm still waiting to see this guy live
up to his supposed potential.   Oh yeah, another thing he did was turn his 
back to the ball while running back up court and effectively set a screen
for Crotty to drive to the hoop.    Montross has journeyman center written
all over him.

But you gotta give Dean credit.   Road wins, especially road wins against  the
top teams, are not easy to come by in the ACC.   He seems to have fallen back to
his veterans - Fox, Chilcutt, Davis, Lynch,Rice to carry the team.  Montross
gets the most PT of the freshman; Rozier, Phelps, Reese, and Sullivan all 
seem to be buried now.

---

On another note, NC State beat Ga Tech yesterday.  Anyone have Kenny Anderson's
stats?   It seemed like he missed his first ten shots.

The ACC definitely has the best group of point guards of any league...
Anderson, Corchiani, Crotty are top-notch;  Walt Williams, Rice and Hurley are
a level below; Haven't seen the Wake Forest or Clemson guards yet.

Rodney Rogers {the Wake Forest freshman} scored 25 with 9 boards in the win
over Clemson Saturday.  He's got a lock on the ACC Rookie title, especially
since Grant Hill of Duke has been out for a couple games with a broken nose.

>On another note, NC State beat Ga Tech yesterday.  Anyone have Kenny Anderson's
>stats?   It seemed like he missed his first ten shots.

Answering my own question, Anderson was 8 for 21 against NC State with less
than 7 assists {Jon Barry led team with 7}.   Rodney Monroe scored 48 for the
Wolfpack.

>    North Carolina 89, Virginia 86 in double overtime.
    
>    Have I mentioned lately how much I hate those guys ???   
    
    
    Heh heh heh!!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

C'mon Chris.. tell us what King Rice's punishment was for his brutal assault.
Besides apologizing to his teammates for getting caught...

Are you satisfied with the performance of the greatest recruiting class of 
all time?    What are they averaging, about a combined 12 points, 6 boards
a game?  

    13-1 baby.  THIRTEEN -AND- ONE.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

The answer is :  13-1 

The question: What are the odds that Dean Smith will win a big tournament game?

or          : How many times did King Rice squeeze his date's throat and how
	      many officers did he assault?

or          : What's a typical points/rebound line for a UNC forward?

or          : What's an unlucky number and what's the number of titles won
	      by the coach who's had the most talented players?

or          : What's the best record UNC will have this year?

    Chris,
    
    What's the status with the NC/Kentucky total win race?
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach
    
    P.S.
    
    Ky should have beaten N.C.

NoTY police alert. Change of status. ACCCCChris has spoken. 

TTom

    Chip I can assure that I speak for the entire Tar Heel community when
    I tell you we simply don't give a pimple_on_a_rats_butt who's leading in
    this "All-Time W's" race.  
    
    On the other hand rumor has it that the Kaintuckians are clinging to
    their record like a momma to her child whilst riding the NY subways. 
    They even went back and did more "research" which uncovered a few more
    wins!  (The NCAA accepted these, thereby allowing the 'Cats to cling to
    their deteriorating lead for a little while longer.)
    
    Clearly if Dean had an indefinite life span we'd own this record
    until time itself came to an end. 
    
    
    - ACC Chris

   � Clearly if Dean had an indefinite life span we'd own this record
   � until time itself came to an end. 
    
    And if it hadn't been for Fred Brown ...
    
    Okay, Soup, a hypothetical for ya, you ex-RON you ...
    
    If Dean Smith were truly immortal and if he were to continue coaching
    the Tar Heels forever until the end of time itself and if he still
    would have only 1982 to remember, would he *then* be considered a choke
    artist and a talent waster ???
    
    Man, 1-for-Infinity would surely be hard to swallow.   Except for
    someone used to swallowing, of course ...
    
    Bob Hunt

    Still havin' trouble getting over that double OT thriller, eh Ketch?
    Heh heh. 
    
    Speaking of long spans of time though, Woody mentioned during the Heels
    @ UVa game the other night that if Virginia had won it would've been
    the first time since (gulp!) 1948 that the Cavs had beaten the Tar
    Heels 3 times in a row.
    
    Let's hope it's another 43 years before *that* streak comes into
    jeopardy again!
    
    Haw haw!!!!!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Soup dodges question.  Soup brings up old history.  Soup accuses Hunt
    of holding grudges.
    
    Yep, I think I've seen this movie a few times before.
    
    Bob Hunt

    >What about Xcellent losses!?
    
    Damned good question.  Well, if you wanna talk choking with sytle
    here's my list:
    
    1. Dean Smif'
    2. "coach" John Stompshim
    3. Dale Brown
    4. Jim BayWhine
    5. CoachK (he's young yet)
    
    Everytime I go to a good strip bar I look up and this list flashed in
    my mind and I take a slug a my Heineken and promise myself that if *I*
    ever get that kinda talent in my hands I'm not gonna squander it!
    
    Big10 Tom

Geez, T, look harder next time.. bet you'll see Digger Phelps in there, too.

    
    O.K. Chris...Give me a few details of Wednesday night game with
    State! Will the Tar-baby's KILL them or will they lose their cool and
    just play well enough to choke?  I hope that State can play some tough
    defense on these guys...It's going to be tough!
    
    Go Pack!
    
    BTW, the game is at the Dumb Dome
    
    B.A.

I went out on a limb late late last year and said that NC State would
beat NC once this year.   Hope that this is the week, but it will probably
be at home.

    Now holed on a minute thair BobHunt.  I ain't never, ever brought up
    the fact that Virginia hasn't beaten the Tar Heels 3 times in a row since
    1948 before.  Never!  (Fact is, I didn't know about the fact until last
    Saturday night.  So there!)
    
    (BTW, we were 6-4 against UVa during the Sampson "glory" years, when
    Virginia's talent level closely resembled the New York Knickerbockers,
    or some such professional franchise ...)
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

   � (BTW, we were 6-4 against UVa during the Sampson "glory" years, when
   � Virginia's talent level closely resembled the New York Knickerbockers,
   � or some such professional franchise ...)
    
    Oh, really ???    There is *one* player left from those teams still in
    the NBA.  Ralph Sampson is the 12th man on the Sacramento Kings.   He'd
    be 13th if they allowed 13 players on the rosters.  His knees are shot
    and he'll probably be waived any day now after he and the Kings work
    out a contract buyout.   No one else from those teams had any impact in
    the NBA whatsoever.   Jeff Lamp hung around on numerous benches for
    about 8 or 9 years and Othell Wilson lasted 2 or 3 years tops.
    
    The North Carolina teams from that time period have produced three NBA
    stars.   Michael Jordan is the finest basketball player alive today. 
    James Worthy, when he's got his clothes on, is perhaps the premier
    small forward in the game and Sam Perkins is as solid and as steady a
    big man as there ever was.
    
    Tell me again how Virginia out-talented the Heels back then.  I need
    another laugh.
    
    Bob Hunt

    You cannot deny, BobHunt, that the ushering in of the "Sampson Era" at
    UVa was supposed to, finally, allow the Cavs to dominate their
    southern neighbor.  Ralph was a franchise player in college, so I beg
    you to avoid the propaganda campaign which would suggest that the shell
    of the player we see now at the end of the bench of the 2nd worst team
    in the league was the same one that played outstanding basketball for
    Virginia for 4 years.  
    
    Without a doubt though there was tremendous parity between the 2
    programs, and at several points they were ranked 1/2 or 2/1 in the
    country.  
    
    My point is simply that at the *peak* of Virginia hoops history they
    still could not beat the Tar Heels more times than they lost to them. 
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Chris, what was King Rice's punishment for his brutal assault?  Speculation
is welcomed!

    Soup,
    
    You were the one who likened the 1980-84 Cavs to a professional NBA
    team, not me.
    
    I simply pointed out that your Carolina teams of the same era were
    much better stocked with NBA material.
    
    It's ludicrous to debate it even further.   Jordan, Perkins, and Worthy
    against Sampson, Lamp, and Raker.   Uh, lemme see now, which team had
    more pro potential on it ???    Geez, this is a toughie.
    
    At this point, after analyzing all the different players and coaches
    involved, I ought to feel damn proud of the fact that my Hoos won 4 out
    of 10 games against the Star Heels.
    
    And perpetual shame on Dean Smith for ruining the ACC Tournament Final
    game of 1982 with his ridiculous slowdown.   If ever two teams deserved
    to play it full out with no holds barred, mano a mano, it was those two
    teams.
    
    And if hadn't been for Fred Brown ...
    
    Bob Hunt

    I'm resting quite comfortably Ketch, thank you.  (Although that clearly
    will NOT be the case when the Heels do battle with State tonight at the
    DD!)
    
    Gotta laugh over your statement that you "ought to" be proud of the
    franchise-led Cavs going 4-6 against the Heels.  The Freudian slip 
    sez alot!
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

>    Oh, really ???    There is *one* player left from those teams still in
>    the NBA.  Ralph Sampson is the 12th man on the Sacramento Kings.   He'd
>    be 13th if they allowed 13 players on the rosters.  His knees are shot
>    and he'll probably be waived any day now after he and the Kings work
>    out a contract buyout.   No one else from those teams had any impact in
    
    Ralph went thru an intense rehab program in Phoenix last summer.  Many
    teams are still interested in him, but not at his current $2M/yr
    contract.  He's in Motta's doghouse and will stay there until they
    waive him or his contract expires (anyone know when that is?).
    
    Both Jerry Colangelo (Suns President) and Jerry West (Lakers GM) have
    expressed interest in him and say he's in the best shape of his career
    at this time (due to the rehab).  My source is right from them via
    radio interviews.
    
    Mike

    Ralph's contract with the Kings has three more years left at $2,000,000
    per year.  Nobody will take him off the Kings' hands for that kind of a
    risk.  What's more is that few teams, if any, have that kind of room
    underneath their salary cap anyway.
    
    I have read about his summer rehab in Phoenix, also.   What I've also
    read is recent quotes from the Hornets' GM, Alan Bristow, who's also
    interested in a healthy Sampson.  Bristow thought he was laboring to
    get up and down the court and concluded that his knees are toast.  
    Bristow could be wrong or he could be downplaying speculation that he's
    interested in the first place.  I don't know.
    
    Whatever happens, first Sampson and the Kings will have to part ways
    with a contract buyout settlement.  Then he can negotiate elsewhere.
    
    What I don't understand is why he's in Motta's doghouse.  If he is
    healthy, what does Motta have to lose ???   The Kings lost by 42 points
    to the Hornets last week.  Sampson played all of 9 minutes of garbage
    time.   If he is healthy, couldn't he have helped out a bit more ??? 
    Maybe not enough to win *that* game but enough to keep it respectable
    maybe ???
    
    Strange ...
    
    Bob Hunt

I know Chris must be so embarrassed by Dean's utter lack of disciplinary 
action against King Rice for his assault on a girl that he cannot even
fathom to guess what punishment Rice received.

Can't wait til UNC plays at Duke... I imagine the students might have something 
planned to congratulate King on his gal-beating techniques.

>Can't wait til UNC plays at Duke... I imagine the students might have something 
>planned to congratulate King on his gal-beating techniques.
    
    Oh, good point!  I hope this one's on TV.  When is it?
    
    Anyone speculate a guess on what the best fans in the NCAA will do?
    
    	- boxing gloves?
    	- hangman's nooses?
    	- rice?
    

    Re: Sampson
    
    It could be that he just isn't in "playing shape".  You need minutes to
    achieve that in the NBA.
    
    I'd bet the Kings will hang on to him in hopes of getting something for
    him.
    
    Did you hear about the fight he and Wennington got into during the
    Kings' PR Day?  They had a Saturday practice open to the public and
    Ralph and Wennington got into a fight during it.  After it was broken
    up, Ralph stormed off spewing expletives for all to enjoy ;-)
    
    Mike

    Carolina @ Duke this Saturday (1/19) @8:00pm.  (ESPN)
    
    I'm sure the students will have something cooked up that will be
    typically unsporting and distasteful.  Who knows, maybe it'll even 
    be racist (again).
    
    But the good guys in baby blue can ill afford to look ahead to the trip
    down the road to Cameroon (where, by the way, we've won 8 out of the
    last 11 times) with the Pack invading the DD tonight.  I'm seriously
    concerned about this game, primarily because my wife just called and
    sez she's on the brink of going into labor for our newest arrival!
    
    This adds extra pressure, cause I can't stand the thought of having a
    child born on the night the Heels lose.  Only thing I can do is stay
    glued to the set (they've got TV's in the Labor/Deliver Rooms) and, if
    a loss is imminent, pray that she hangs on until 1/17!
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

>    Whatever happened to that college hoops conference that *someone*
>    proposed in the dying days of ::OURGNG? 

I set it up... with all the base notes and everything, but based on the number
of college hoop entries in here since Jan 1, decided that the added overhead of
an extra  conference probably wasn't  worth it.    If there's a demand for it,
I will open it up to the world, no problem.

> Maybe that question about
>    Rice's punishment can be asked IN THERE a million times, and maybe
>    ANSWERED FINALLY........

next/unseen

    � Only thing I can do is stay glued to the set (they've got TV's in the
    � Labor/Deliver Rooms) and, if a loss is imminent, pray that she hangs on
    � until 1/17!
    
    Ha-ha, does that bring back the memories ...
    
    My first daughter was born during the Phillies' Opening Day ballgame,
    my second daughter was born during the Major League Baseball All-Star
    Game and I watched the Eagles play the Giants at the Meadowlands while
    holding daughter no. 3 in my arms in the recovery room.
    
    But my wife had real long labors so we got to watch all kinds of nifty
    neat things.  You ain't lived until you've seen both the afternoon
    *and* evening Wheel Of Fortune shows in a hospital labor room.
    
    And I think that was the Oprah with the nude lesbian Episcopalian
    priests or was it the rape victims falling in love with their attackers
    or was it ...
    
    Good luck to Mrs. Soup and you, too.   Here's hoping you go 1-1 that
    night.  Bring it on home, Soup.
    
    Bob Hunt

The Duke fans generally come up with some good stuff.

I predict it'll be something along the line of:
                                   
              THAT LOVABLE, SLAP-HAPPY GUY... KINK RICE!
                           HEY! DON'T CHOKE!

Mike JN

    ACC Chris...
    
    	When you do over-excite yourself tonight..and your wife does too. If
    it's a girl name her Val...for Valvano! If it's a boy name him
    Dave...for David Thompson!
    
    Good luck!
    
    B.A.

    re Wennington vs. Sampson
    
    Classic case of one self-made player making a career out of minimal
    talent and another fashioning a sow's ear out of a silk purse...
    
    Hey Bob, I've got a solution to their problem if Ralph is brooding
    for revenge: Fly in King Lice to beat up Bill's wife, and then maybe
    if James is in town they cain truck her over to the ho-tel for some
    get-down partying!  Does this make sense?!
    
    MrT 

   � Hey Bob, I've got a solution to their problem if Ralph is brooding
   � for revenge: Fly in King Lice to beat up Bill's wife, and then maybe
   � if James is in town they cain truck her over to the ho-tel for some
   � get-down partying!  Does this make sense?!
    
    Clear as a bell, T.
    
    Bob Hunt

    re Bob H.
    
    Bob, Motta has been showing definite signs of senilty all year. He
    constantly downgrades his team (granted, when you score 59 points in a
    game, you deserve it), and even management said that he has not helped
    matters for his team. Rookies are afraid to go to him.
    
    As for Ralph, Motta started him for 5 games. I guess he expected Ralph
    to fall on his face. Instead, Ralph had 16 boards and a few blocks in
    one game, and played well in a couple others. Then Motta buried him
    again.
    
    Word has it that Ralph will be cut loose/traded if/when his contract is
    restructured, and that the Suns, Lakers, and Cavs are interested.
    
    Good luck Ralph.
    
    Doc

Virginia beat Maryland last night.
Duke beat The Citadel.
Clemson beat Western Carolina.
NC State versus UNC was postponed... 

Duke beat UNC Saturday night... It was close for awhile, but Laettner and
Thomas Hill took control.

George Lynch did an un-Tar Heel like thing late in the game... After Lynch 
committed a foul, Thomas Hill flipped the ball backward toward him in a 
semi-taunting manner, and Lynch responded by firing the ball back at Hill.
Technical on Lynch...  

Dean is still afraid to play his greatest recruiting class ever for any
significant minutes.   The five {Montross, Rozier, Phelps, Reese, and
Sullivan} shot 1 for 8 combined from the field with little impact.  On
offense, Montross is soooo slow establishing his shot.  

Dean also didn't start his second best player - George Lynch, preferring
instead to play that super talent Henrik R�dl.   

On the Duke side, Bobby Hurley nearly reached double figures in turnovers
and is quickly becoming the sixth best player on the team.   It wouldn't
surprise me to see Coach K go outand recruit a real point guard... Otherwise
Hurley will turn into a monster by his senior year.

--

A Kenny "God" Anderson update.. Another woeful shooting performance this
weekend   6-19 with 7 assists in a win over NC State {or was it UVa?}.  

 Doug Tech beat Virgina over the weekend. Kenny needs help. Small guys
 got to have teammates. Big guys like Shack, it don't matter.

 Speaking of Shack, Bob Hunt I was thinking how you mentioned the Heat
 maybe not taking him with the number 1 pick and I admit I originally 
 thought it made good sense but after watching him again the other night
 against 'bama , no way, I'd trade Sikely. The only teams I can think
 of that wouldn't takw Shack numero uno are Knicks, Rockets, Spurs.

 If he declares I'd love to see the Warriors package their 3 #1 picks
 in the upcoming draft and get him. Instant Contenders I'd say...

 mike

>Kenny needs help. Small guys got to have teammates. 

Right.  That's why I wonder, why so much hype?   Calling him the greatest
point guard ever right now is so much hot air.   What happens if he ends
up with a team like Minnesota?  or Orlando?   or  Sacramento?   Is he going
to add 15 wins to those teams?   I don't think so.  

He has some decent teammates... They aren't stiffs.  Malcom Mackey and Matt
Geiger are good players and I've been really impressed by Rick Barry's kid,
Jon.  

How about if the Lakers offer up either Worthy or a package of A.C. Green
and Byron Scott to draft Kenny?  Move Magic into a forward spot for the next
five years.

>Big guys like Shack,  it don't matter.                                    

You said it... I saw that Alabama game, too and he was awesome at times.
I'd go pro if I were him, mostly to get away from Dale Brown.... but
according to SI this week, he's staying in school.

    I'd like to know if anyone knows what the Duke students chanted at King
    Rice when he came onto the Cameron court Saturday night.  The paper
    mentioned it, but wouldn't print it.
    
    Probably something racial, right Knorr?  Uh huh.
    
    UVA fell to Tech big time, while NCSU ran into a big loss at Wake
    Forest.
    
    	--dan'l

    ACC Chris is being vewy vewy quiet today after the Cartwheels loss to
    DUKE.  I must have bit off every single fingernail watching the game.
    The Dream Team from NC was not impressive.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

 Chris is probably at home with the wife and newborn. He'll be in later
 to remind us it's not a long season but that UNC is a long way from
 being a good team... ;^)

 mike

    Congrats to the Nerds for the "W" Saturday night.  I thought their
    defense was outstanding - really took us out of our offense.  There
    were simply no easy shots for the men in baby blue.  Course we
    contributed to the ease of the win with several unforced turnovers. 
    (None by King Rice, BTW.)  Duke is now 4-8 against Carolina at Cameron
    over the last 12 years, so I ain't feeling too badly ...
    
    Easily the highlight of the night for me though was the film
    (broadcast by ESPN) showing Coach K talking to the Duke fans a couple
    days prior to the game.  Basically he urged them to avoid their usual
    tastelessness, even going so far as to mention that Pete Chilcutt's
    brother is fighting in the Persian Gulf.
    
    Now for all you folks who insist that Duke fans are real nice,
    sporting, classy, etc., ask yourselves the question why Coach K felt
    the necessity to make that speech.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    

Do you mean Shack-Keel, the LSU Houseboat?  

There's a photo in SI that has him flying towards the camera butt first.
I was clearly able to identify a serving platter, a gravy boat,
cups, saucers, dinner platers, dessert plates, and a candelabra before
turning the page.....

'Saw

    DUKE fans do sometimes go overboard, and I think Coach K. did the right
    thing. He probably told them to calm done and keep things simple; it
    seemed that the NC players did not understand what the "nerds" were
    saying. :)
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

 Chris,
 
 Nobody ever said the Duke fans were classy.  Just uproariously funny,
 that's all.   I still think their best moment was yelling "Where's our
 gold ???" at John Thompson at the East Regionals in 1989.
 
 To all ...
 
 A moment please, if you will, for me to brag about the finest school on
 the planet ...
 
 It was reported that this year's ultimate bowl sluts, my beloved Virginia
 Cavaliers, have sliced off close to a half a million dollars of their
 total take from the Sugar Bowl and flat out given it with no strings
 attached to, are you ready for this, the University's academic funding.   
 Am I proud or what ???   Keep in mind that this is half a mill *after*
 they had already split the booty with the rest of the conference schools.
 
 Oh, and Tennessee, the Hoos' bowl opponent, gave all their coaches pay
 raises instead.
 
 Way to go, Hoos.  Now about the Georgia Tech game ...
 
 Bob Hunt

    Re: Duke Fans
    
    Remember when they were all jingling keys when Shackelford came to
    Cameron.  He was apparently caught stealing a car.
    
    Or when they have the Vitale impressions....
    
    Good academics but no babes...
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

>   Basically he urged them to avoid their usual
>    tastelessness, even going so far as to mention that Pete Chilcutt's
>     brother is fighting in the Persian Gulf.
    
>    Now for all you folks who insist that Duke fans are real nice,
>    sporting, classy, etc., ask yourselves the question why Coach K felt
>    the necessity to make that speech.
    
    You not only wear baby blue glasses, you've got some baby blue cotton
    in your ears.   If Coach K didn't want the best fans in the land to be
    just that, he'd have to make that speach before every game.  K was
    specifically referring to Chilcutt's situation and nothing else.  Do
    you honestly think the Duke fans would have crossed that line in light
    of the whole situation, speach or not?  They might be tasteless, but
    they are not ignorant.
    
    	--dan'l

Duke fans are tasteless and inconsiderate. They are not ignorant as their
"theme" is usually very pointed. They are also mostly funny. In fact, I
like them better than the geeks on the court or the weasel on the bench.

Some great moments at Duke would have to include 2 at State's expense.
The first was a few years back when Tiny Pender got caught shoplifing
underwear and everyone had a pair of BVDs on their head. The second was
when '83 Championship-winning-dunker Lorenzo Charles got caught stealing
pizza and everyone came with Domino's costumes and pizza boxes.

The only think that makes me question the intelligence of Duke is that
"Cameron Indoor" part of the name of the arena. Don't they know the game
is indoors?

TTom

 > It was reported that this year's ultimate bowl sluts, my beloved Virginia
 > Cavaliers, have sliced off close to a half a million dollars of their
 > total take from the Sugar Bowl and flat out given it with no strings
 > attached to, are you ready for this, the University's academic funding.   
 > Am I proud or what ???   Keep in mind that this is half a mill *after*
 > they had already split the booty with the rest of the conference schools.
    
    Noble, but I wouldn't get carried away.  Notre Dame announced they were
    doing the same thing with the money from their new TV contract, which
    was roundly met in here with cynicism as strictly a publicity measure.
    There's some merit to that argument, too, because like with US
    Government budget accounting practices, you don't know what money is
    going where when it all comes out of a total university operating 
    budget.  But, I'd agree, Virginia probably could afford to stick some
    extra dollars into their football program (starting with a new field
    after those school-spirited kids torched it on the eve of the big
    game with Georgia Tech), whereas Notre Dame football has never wanted 
    for anything...
    
    glenn
      

    > K was specifically referring to Chilcutt's situation and nothing 
    > else.  Do you honestly think the Duke fans would have crossed that 
    > line in light of the whole situation, speach or not?  
    
    That's the beauty of it dan'l - it doesn't matter whether *I* think
    they could've been that tasteless.  Obviously CoachK thought they
    *could*, otherwise why the speech?!
    
    > They might be tasteless, but they are not ignorant.
    
    I've never said the Nerds were stupid.  I *have* said they're unsporting,
    rude, and, at least on one occasion, racist.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Glenn,
    
    I would have thought you might have been able to see through some of
    the faux chest-beating I was doing.
    
    Having dished it out, I'm well aware of the heat Notre Dame takes when
    they do the same kinds of things.   
    
    I'm sure my Wahoos are quickly learning just how powerfully effective a
    hype machine (a la the Irish) can be.   After all, the public didn't
    necessarily have to know what they did with the loot but the good folks
    in Hoo-ville must have thought it would be nice if we knew they ain't
    *total* sluts.
    
    I wanted to feel good about them after their dismal performance against
    Georgia Tech this past weekend.
    
    Bob Hunt

    I have a hard time seeing their fans as racist considering that they
    have several black players on their team and a fairly large minority
    population (granted overseas students mostly).
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

One more thnig about Duke fans: they definitely lose their humor when the
game goes sour. At last year's ACC Tournament, I had the privilege of
sitting in the Duke section while they lost to Ga Tech in the semis. They
started strong with all their cuteness and ended with nothing to say. Of
course, being the only Tech rooter helped me savor the moment.

TTom

    Chris,
    
    Which of their acts was racist.  I'm unfamiliar with it or maybe just
    not seeing it as racist.
    
    Didn't they also throw condoms at someone accused of sexual assault?
    
    	--dan'l

I believe Chris is referring to an incident several years ago when Duke
fans held up signs that said something like "J.R. Kan U Rede This?".

The flap was apparently that making fun of someone's intelligence is
obviously a racially motivated act.   

I've seen and heard much worse down here in Dixie.  

    The documented evidence of racism (and, BTW, Dean came down *hard* on
    'em for this) occured during JR's playing days at Carolina.  The
    students were all over him with posters that read
    
    "JR CAN'T REID"
    
    As it turns out, JR *can* read and in fact was a solid student with a
    solid SAT score.  But the inescapable reaility is that there would've
    been no signs if JR were white.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 He's probably referring to their "JR Can't Read" posters.    I didn't see
 the humor in that one but I also missed the racist content as well.
 
 They used to jingle their car keys at State's Clyde Austin, too.  Clyde
 was apparently seen driving some really rad wheels and they let him know
 he'd been noticed.
 
 Bob Hunt

> But the inescapable reaility is that there would've
>    been no signs if JR were white.

Based on what?   Admission by Duke students?  or posturing by Dean Smith?

The fact that J.R. looks like Baby Huey had nothing to do with it?

If that's racism, then we've come a long way, baby.

    Ask yourself the question "If JR Reid were white, would there have been
    posters?"  I think not.  The only defense I can offer the nerds is
    perhaps racism is too strong a word, and that they're only (!) guilty of
    gross and malicious stereotyping.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Yeah, State has given Duke a lot of material.

Duke really got into giving JR a hard time. I don't think that it was
motivated by racism but it certainly was perceived by many people to be
that. While Duke may not be racist, they certainly are elitist.  And in a
state that has almost conitunously experienced racial tensions, it looked
a whole lot like a bunch of white kids laying into a black athlete.

So Dean went on the record and claimed the JR's SAT was better than Danny
Ferry's.

Actually, I think that some of the Tar Heel motivation comes from not
wanting anyone to be more elitist than they are and being mocked for
inferiority by Duke was more than they could handle.

TTom

    My impression of the JR poster was that it was a play on his last name
    and not a racist remark.  
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    re-2,
    	
    	Speaking of Ferry, When I was at the tournament in Greensboro, ALL
    the fans were giving Ferry a hard time..i.e. Feerrryy, while moving
    there wrist to a traditional "Fag" motion..last time I looked Ferry was
    white.
    
    	State has taken alot of hits from all over the ACC...Stereo's being
    thrown, Domino's pizza boxes, watches,along with the chantings.
    
    	I think the Duke fans do not pick on the prey because of a
    color...just a name or action to help them irratate the subject.
    
    .02
    
    
    B.A.

I guess pizzas, car keys and underwear are colorless slurs but there's
another sensitivity to claiming a black guy can't read. Of course, the
Tar Heels thought the former were all funny.

Just goes to show...

TTom

 Interesting point there TTom, care to counter Chris? ;^)

 mike

    TTom's subjective theory on the nature of UNC vs. Duke elitism may very
    well be correct, but does nothing to justify the behavior of their
    students in regards to JR.  Now, if he had some specifics on
    racism/stereotyping performed by Carolina fans, we might be on to
    something.  It's highly unlikely though, cause Dean simply wouldn't
    tolerate this kind of thing, just like he doesn't tolerate fan waving
    while opponents shoot free throws.
    
    Without question though, Duke fans are incredibly elitist.  One of
    their favorite chants used to be "STATE SCHOOL!, STATE SCHOOL!, STATE
    SCHOOL!".  I've heard 'em use it against Carolina.  Presumably they'd
    use it against everybody in the ACC 'sept Wake.
    
    The horrible linear logic used by the nerds is of course that a private
    school's academics are better than a state school.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Sounds like a play on words and nothing else to me.  But Dean said it
    was racist so...well it must be true.
    
    Thanks for explaining, though, Chris.  Keep pulling for the green and
    you might find something credible.
    
    	--dan'l

>    The horrible linear logic used by the nerds is of course that a private
>    school's academics are better than a state school.
    
    In this case and many, many, many, many other cases I'd say this is
    very, very, very, very true.  
    
    Are you saying that Duke is not a superior school (academically) to
    NCSU and UNC?  
    
    I'm a Carnegie Mellon elitist and proud of it.  No way anyone from Pitt
    gets a better education than what's available across the ravine.  I
    thought Ohio University was a great institution, but when I got to grad
    school and saw what these Tartans were studying in undergrad...hey,
    private schools are where it's at academically.
    
    	--dan'l

    North Carolina may be a state school but you'll get a superb education
    there, too.
    
    Same with Virginia, too.   A lot of it has to with the size of the
    school's investments and endowments.   In both Virginia and North
    Carolina's cases, they were private schools long before they accepted
    state funding (I don't know when they made the switch).    But thus,
    they have huge and still growing privately-financed endowment funds
    and, in reality, should more correctly be called "state-subsidized"
    schools.
    
    It takes big money, more than a state can provide, to attract and hold
    top academic talent and these two attract quite a bit of it.
    
    Bob Hunt

    
    I think there's very definitely a racial insinuation in joking that a
    black athlete can't read, but hey, it's up to the individual to decide
    for himself, I guess...
    
    glenn
      

    
    	What would you say if I find this matter racist to the Duke
    students? Cause they come up with some good put-downs..doesn't mean
    they're racist.
    
    .03
    
    B.A.

That UNC-Chapel Hill has a problem with race is a matter of public
record. But like Chris says, that's not the issue, at least not the one
that I raised. I proposed that Duke is eliter than No Carolina and that
this is one of the problems that No Carolina might have in appreciating
Duke's taunting of JR. 

I have expressed the opinion that Tar Heels are definitely elitist and
for evidence I suggest one spend some time in Charlotte and savor this
from the banks, the press and other news media, etc. I ain't making this
up. I think that Duke's elitism is obvious.

TTom

re Private Schools:

	In many, many cases, it's true.  Private schools often times
	have a much larger pot of money to play with.  

	State schools are great if you can't really afford an education
	but chose to go to college (i.e. me).  If I could do it all over
	again, there's several other places I'd have gone (if money was
	no object)....

re Reading/Racism:

	Maybe I'm awfully naive, but I've known some white jocks who
	had a hard time reading, writing papers, and doing regular
	academic stuff.  Why is it racist?  Just because JR is black?
	Would it be racist if they were making fun of John Doe who
	couldn't read and he was white?  Same principle, no?

'Saw

Chris Corchianni became the ACC career leader in assists and steals. He
had 10 assists and 4 steals as State beat Marquette, 89-76. That puts him
6th on the NCAA career list. I don't know how far down he is at this
point, but at the beginning of the season he needed slightly more than
200 down. His current total of 861 puts him in range of 1000, which no
one has acheived.

TTom

    >	Maybe I'm awfully naive, but I've known some white jocks who
    >	had a hard time reading, writing papers, and doing regular
    >	academic stuff.  Why is it racist?  Just because JR is black?
    >	Would it be racist if they were making fun of John Doe who
    >	couldn't read and he was white?  Same principle, no?
    
    It's not racist that someone can't read, it's racist (in my opinion) 
    to wave a placard around insinuating such because the athlete in
    question in black, especially as that particular athlete has 
    demonstrated in no way that he is illiterate.  You haven't asked the 
    proper question.  It's not whether there are indeed dumb white 
    athletes, because there are, but whether you've ever seen an open 
    demonstration at a sporting event claiming such.  Have you?
    
    Lemme put it another, less accusatory, way.  If someone handed me that 
    sign and asked me wave it around in front of JR Reid, I'd immediately
    recognize what conclusions could be drawn from its tastelessness and 
    refuse.  Why didn't these wonderfully intelligent Duke students (which 
    was Chris' point, I believe)?
    
    Extending your arguments, I hope that if this is not just a case to 
    hammer on Dean Smith and protect the Duke students at Carolina's 
    expense (which is my suspicion), that to be consistent none of you 
    guys inferred anything from George Bush's or Jesse Helms' campaign
    commercials.  After all, there was nothing overt or untruthful that 
    can be proved in either case, right?  I mean, Willie Horton really 
    did do those awful things that Bush said he did...
    
    glenn
       

>    Extending your arguments, I hope that if this is not just a case to 
>    hammer on Dean Smith and protect the Duke students at Carolina's 
>    expense (which is my suspicion), that to be consistent none of you 
>    guys inferred anything from George Bush's or Jesse Helms' campaign
>    commercials.  After all, there was nothing overt or untruthful that 
>    can be proved in either case, right?  I mean, Willie Horton really 
>    did do those awful things that Bush said he did...

I wasn't making any arguments, really.  I was just wondering why
everyone thought it was racist.  I don't know a lot about the schools
involved, other than the fact that LT is from UNC, ACC Chris bleeds baby blue,
and Duke turns out great doctors ;^).

It's been my experience that some of the jocks I've come across who were
white couldn't read, and that it seemed to me that it was more of an
indictment against jocks than against a black JR Reid...       

Like I said, perhaps I'm just really naive...

Wasn't their a bunch of controversy surrounding Patrick Ewing when he
was at Georgetown?  I don't know why that comes to mind...was it something
similar?

'Saw

    If a black student raised the sign in front of a white athlete whose
    last name is Reid would that be also be racism ?
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    Sorry, Frank.  That reply wasn't directed at you personally.  I know
    you have had little to do with the UNC/ACC ratholes...
    
    > If a black student raised the sign in front of a white athlete whose
    > last name is Reid would that be also be racism ?
    
    Sure, if that was the intent.  Did it happen?  The Duke/Reid thing did.
    
    glenn
    

>    Sorry, Frank.  That reply wasn't directed at you personally.  I know
>    you have had little to do with the UNC/ACC ratholes...


Ok, no sweat...8^)

    Re: .90
    
    Is not hypothetical to assume that the sign was a racial slur without
    asking the student that actually drew it up ?  The perception that
    everything directed towards minorities is racial often causes problems
    in the assimilation of societies.
    
    I can see how the sign could be deemed as offensive to blacks, but I do
    believe blacks were the target as much as JR, the person. That is just
    my opinion and not based on fact.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    Well the self-serving sports media is at it again, this time ranking on
    a group of NBA stars for participating in a promotion to encourage kids
    to stay in school.  In a move they no doubt think will point out the
    tewible hypocrisy of these pros, Sports Illustrated ran a piece in the
    Scorecard section which points out that many of these players "dropped
    out" of college.  Sadly but unsurprisingly I pick up my Atlanta
    Constitution today and find they've basically reprinted the article.
    
    Never mind that several of these players have gone back to get their
    degrees (Michael and Isiah) and one is within 1 class of getting his
    diploma.  (JR)  Never mind that each of the mentioned players is
    earning gobs more money than he could ever hope to achieve in any other
    profession.  Never mind that a single injury sustained during their
    college career could've wiped out a lifetime of financial security.
    Never mind any of it.
    
    The fact of the matter is the media doesn't want star college basketball or
    football players to head to the pros early (it's okay if you're a
    baseball player) cause it takes away high profile athletes from the
    immensely popular college games.
    
    One thing's for sure though - the media *did* point out the hypocrisy. 
    Unfortunately it's their own.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

   � Never mind that several of these players have gone back to get their
   � degrees (Michael and Isiah) and one is within 1 class of getting his
   � diploma.  (JR)  
    
 Minor nit:  JR Reid is a full SIX credit hours short of his degree.  In
 most schools, that means he needs two complete 3 hour courses.    The
 source ???   JR himself on his day-of-game radio talk show here in the
 Queen City.
 
 I'm not sure I understand what you're complaining about.  Hot shot college
 hoopsters leave school early for the big bucks and then come back to tell
 younger kids to stay in school.
    
 Sure it seems hypocritical at first glance but there's a subtle 
 "read-between-the-lines" message here, too.   That is, that high-flying
 talent along the lines of a Michael Jordan or Isiah Thomas is extremely
 rare (in Jordan's case, like, 1 in 5 and a half billion people on the
 entire planet, if you get my drift) and that kids instead ought to
 consider the odds against them making it in the NBA and set their sights
 on a high school diploma and a college degree as their primary goals.
 
 Nothing wrong with that in my book.   Michael Jordan would have been
 declared certifiably insane if he'd stayed another year at Carolina.  
 Then again, there's only one of him.   There are a few million of the
 not-so-talented who are wearing his shoes but that's about it.
 
 Let's call this the "Doogie Howser Syndrome".  I mean what's the superstar
 kid supposed to do ???  He was obviously sharp enough to tackle med school
 when he just getting his first zits so why not go for it ???   The others
 ought to be encouraged to stay the "course", pun intended, because it
 ain't realistic to shoot for that goal.
 
 Where's the beef, Soup ???
 
 Bob Hunt

    I think you two are in agreement.  ACChris is criticizing the
    media, not the players, for implying that there's some hypocrisy 
    present in college-dropout superstar basketball players telling 
    kids to stay in school.
    
    I don't think there's any hypocrisy on the part of the players, but I
    do question the use of athletes in these type of community service
    spots.  While the athletes may indeed hold the kids' attention, to me 
    it only reinforces the notion that sports are the best way out for 
    these kids, which is probably the worst possible conclusion.  The 
    message gets lost in the medium.  Why no commercials showing minority 
    doctors and businessmen telling kids to stay in school instead of
    always long-shot successful athletes and TV stars?  Is the public 
    really too numb to get it or do the television networks just 
    automatically see us that way?
    
    glenn
       

    My personal impression of the ads in question (I've seen a couple
    of them), are that they are aimed at the potential high-school
    drop-out.  As such, they seem to be pretty effective.  All of the
    players involved completed high school and went on to further higher
    education, whether they completed that post-secondary school work
    in the "normal" four years or not.
    
    A&W

    As Glenn points out my problem is with the *media*.  They're trying to
    tell us that these players are being hypocritical.  (If that's not
    their angle, what is?!)
    
    These players clearly are not being hypocritical.  In addition to all
    the reasons I mentioned, we have A&W's firsted-hand account that the
    ads aren't even aimed at college kids!
    
    Talk about a non-story ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

State beat Duke for the fifth straight time in Reynolds, 95-89. Duke tied
the score twice in the second half but K couldn't weasel a win. Rodney
Monroe scored 35. IMHO, the highlight of the game had to be a shot
Laettner attempted in the closing minutes. This shot hit the backboard
structure behind the backboard. An embarassed ref pretended that it was
tipped by the Pack so Duke got the ball out and they still didn't win.

Meanwhile, in Winston-Salem, No Carolina beat Wake, 91-81. Rodney Rogers
was held scoreless in the second half. Rick Fox had 20 and King Rice had
22. Ya gotta feel good with the talent that Dean recruited, the Heels are
being led by King Rice and Pete Chilcutt. Rozier continues to sit on the
pine bewildered by The System and evidently not too enthusiastic about
defense. Eric Monstross (tm) continues to amaze fans and foes with his
incredible lack of foot speed. This man shoulda played for Bobby Knight.

In non-confernce play Virginia drubbed Va Tech, 86-61 (in Blacksburg).

TTom

>Ya gotta feel good with the talent that Dean recruited, the Heels are
>being led by King Rice and Pete Chilcutt. Rozier continues to sit on the
>pine bewildered by The System and evidently not too enthusiastic about
>defense. 

Is my boxscore correct... Usually they list the starters first and then
the subs in order of entering the game.  For UNC, it's:

	Chilcutt, Rodl, Montross, Reese, Fox starting 
then
	Sullivan, Harris, Cherry, Salvadori, Lynch, Davis, Fox, Rozier,
	Wenstrom

I don't understand.  Shouldn't Dean play his best players?   Was there
some reason Fox and Lynch did not appear to start or enter the game
early?   It should be simple - Chilcutt,Fox,Lynch, Davis,Rice... Then
rotate in a freshman or two every couple minutes.

>Eric Monstross (tm) continues to amaze fans and foes with his
>incredible lack of foot speed. This man shoulda played for Bobby Knight.

He did grab 12 boards... season high.  But he's got journeyman written
all over him.   He's not just slow of foot, he's slow in all aspects.
His post moves look like a guy trying to count his steps while dancing.

    Funny thing, but whenever the conversation turns to King Lice's
    wanton woman-beating he's a load, a non-factor, a_overrated player
    who 'Snuffy keeps around and plays outta the goodness a his heart.
    But this is no so when one reads the game articles or the boxes.
    
    What gives?
    
    re: public service
    
    Wake up and smell the hoses: These "public service" spots are self-
    serving devices that the leagues and sports celebrities take part in
    strictly for free PR.  I nearly puked a while back when somebody in
    here wrote a heart rending piece about James Worthy visiting a hospital
    ward on a road trip.  (This was before James' notion of pre-game 
    sandwiches were revealed.)  C'mon willya.  If sexpot James cares so
    much about poor sick kids then why the cameras and reporters?  Why
    don't he just slip on down to the ward and do his altruism in private
    for its own sake?  
    
    And *another* question: Given Worthy's peculiar sexual appetite, is
    it wise to turn him loose in a room full of children lying in beds?!
    
    Star Heels, ya gotta luv 'em...
    
    Big10 Tom

    Solid and impressive win for Carolina on the road last night at Wake. 
    Remember, this is the same Wake team that pounded State by 20+ points.
    There have been only 6 victories for visiting teams in the ACC this
    year and we've got 1/3 of 'em.
    
    Montross had his best outing of the year last night, but it should be
    pointed out we zoned for a good deal of the 2nd half.  The most
    disapointing aspect of his game so far may be his horrid free throw
    shooting.  Two (2) games in a row he's gone to the line for 2 and
    missed both.  His percentage is below 60%.  
    
    King Rice apparently enjoyed the football taunts of the Wake crowd (they 
    were chanting 'Hit her again, HARDER, HARDER', etc.) as he tied career
    high numbers in points.  The difference in the game was Carolina
    shooting 8/11 from 3-pt land in the 2nd half, while Wake couldn't hit
    crap against our packed-in zone.
    
    Dean picks his 5 starters based on practice and who's played the best
    'D'.  Has little to do with who's in the game at the end, which is where
    the important PT takes place.  What I wanna know is why Derrick Phelps
    didn't play.  Anything in the Charlotte papers on this? 
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Chris,

Phelps has an injur - his hand I think - and didn't dress.

Poor King Rice. It seems that the only one who likes him is Dean. The Tar
Heels booed him at the Dean Dome. Wake booed him last night.  At the Duke
game, when they introduced the team it went like:

	Announcer:	At center, Pete Chilcutt
	Crowd:		Hi, Pete
	Announder:	... Rick Fox
	Crowd:		Hi, Rick
	Announcer:	... King Rice
	Crowd:		BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
	Announcer:	... Dean Smith
	Crowd:		Hi, Dean

TTom

    And another thing:
    
    Even ACC Chris booed him (from his living room) during the UConn game!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    How long have the ACC officials been wearing T-shirts instead of black
    and white stripes?  Is this the first season?  Are any other conference
    officials doing this?
    
    	--dan'l

Ga Tech crushed Clemson, 89-68. Kenny Anderson had 32.

TTom

    goodbye N.C. hello Kentucky...
    
    Chip_PITINOVILLE_Bach

    re-shirts...
    
    	The Shirts have been around for a while...at least 2 years.
    
    B.A.

North Carolina was beaten at the DeanDome by Georgia Tech yesterday, 88-86.
The Tar Heels blew a 16 point lead.

This was a game that Dean Smith lost.  By failing to play his best players
together long enough, UNC was unable to sustain the rhythm they developed.
Dean played 14 guys, GA Tech played 7.   This game should have been in the
bank before the second half started.

Eric Monstrosity scored a single point on 0-4 shooting to lead the greatest
recuriting class ever to a combined 2-9, 8 point total...  Bob Knight deserves
the coach of the year award for getting the Indiana schoolboy press to hype
up Montross enough to make Dean think he was a great center.  Attaboy, Bob!

For the Techsters, Kenny Anderson was woeful again from the field - 6 for 19,
but did have 13 assists {twice his per game average}.   Malcolm Mackey was
dominating with 24 points and 17 boards.

    Actually, not taking anything away from Smith's poor coaching, but I
    think the officials had a big part in that Tech victory by allowing
    that last second inbounds in the first half.  That call could have gone
    either way and I was surprised at the way it went considering they were
    in CH, NC.
    
    Oh and did anyone catch Pat O'Brian's little ditty between the
    Pitt/Georgetown game and the UNC/GT game?  He was in UNC's trophey room
    and said, "When you think of UNC, you think of champions."  You do?
    
    	--dan'l

    Wild and wacky weekend in the ACC.  Consider:
    
    o State lost at Maryland, a team playing without Walt Williams
    
    o Virginia was down by EIGHT (8) points with 1:40 to play at Notre
      Dame, and won in regulation!  (If there was ever any doubt Digger
      should get fired, this sealed any doubt for me.)
    
    o Carolina was upset at home, blowing a 16-point second half lead.
    
    There are now 5 teams (Tech, Duke, State, Carolina, and Virginia)
    tied in the loss column for first place.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Nice job by 'Snuff.  I missed the end, flipping off the set figuring
    "no way cain even the redoubtable Smif' blow this one, what with a
    bench deeper than the San Juan Trench, a 16 point lead, and a Tech
    team huffing and puffing with exhaustion."
    
    Wrong.
    
    Cain it be ol' Preacher Main is tuning up for his annual NCAA tourney
    display?  Btw, is my Trinitron going bad or is Dean's face covered 
    with spots?
    
    Big10 Tom 

    Briant Stith scored Virginia's final 19 points to overcome the Notre
    Dame eight-point cushion.   Go Hoos.
    
    I was very much surprised at State's loss to Maryland.  I had Maryland
    dead and buried after losing Walt Williams.   Looks like the only ACC
    team with a foot in the grave is defending champ Clemson.  Breaks my
    heart.
    
    Duke goes as Bobby Hurley goes.   Has anyone noticed that Duke loses on
    the road to teams with better point guards ???   They lost to Virginia
    with John Crotty and State with Chris Corchiani.   Look for them to get
    singed, burned, and torched when they visit Georgia Tech.
    
    Dean Smith never ceases to amaze.  Now he's even blowing them at home
    in his very own personal building.  I almost want the guy to stick
    around as long as he wants to.
    
    Bob Hunt

Is Kenny Anderson playing himself out of a lottery pick?   Would you 
agree that his stock has dropped since the end of last year?  

Anyone else see Matt Geiger literally throw Kenny into a UNC player who
was shooting a layup while Anderson had his back to the play?  Kenny
gave Geiger a look like "you will never see the ball again!"    

    Funny how I didn't hear any Dean-bashing after our double OT "W" on the
    road at Virginia.
    
    In any case Deano did pull a blunder.  We desperately needed a TO
    during Tech's 20-3 run, but he's philosophically against this.  (Sez he
    should be able to teach his players well enough so they don't need a
    time out.)  In any case we ended up calling a time out anyway, but not
    until we were losing the game.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>         -< Needed a time out *BADLY*, but pride got in the way. :^( >-
    
    Pride doesn't win games.  
    
    I love how this is a loss because of pride and not poor coaching,
    though.  Ever think of running for office, Chris?  You're spewing 
    opinion-altering propaganda just like our own government. 8-)
    
    	--dan'l

   � Funny how I didn't hear any Dean-bashing after our double OT "W" on the
   � road at Virginia.
    
    Every so often the happy-faced clown does indeed pop out of the back
    seat of the jalopy, Soup.
    
    Dean did everything he could to blow that game, too.  He sat his
    hot hand, George Lynch, out for critical moments.   He let Rick Fox
    play way too long with four fouls and it eventually burned him.
    
    And then he must have used that "pride" thing to tell Eric Montross to
    heave that inbounds pass clear on up to the peanut vendor thus
    allowing Virginia a final shot instead.
    
    The players won that one in spite of everything Dean could possibly
    think of to let it slip away.   It's catching up with him now.
    
    Bob Hunt

Let me ask which of the following more closely resembles propaganda:

1. Dean made a mistake in yesterdays game because his pride got in the
   way of calling a TO during Tech's 20-3 run.

2. Dean Smith is a poor coach.

(Let me give you a hint: it's not number 1.  By definition propaganda
 is an attempt to win people over to their position.  I wasn't offering
 a position, just an objective analysis.)

HTH,

- ACC Chris
    

    > Dean did everything he could to blow that game, too.  
    
    Nothing like some good old-fashioned objectivity I say!  (As opposed to
    the 'propaganda' dan'l accuses me of.)
    
    > hot hand, George Lynch, out for critical moments.   
    
    Lynch played almost the entire 2nd half as well as both the overtimes. 
    Apparently you don't understand what 'critical moments' are.
    
    > He let Rick Fox play way too long with four fouls and it eventually 
    > burned him.
    
    Nice try, but Fox fouled out with barely any time left in the game. 
    I suppose you would've saved him for overtime, huh.
    
    > And then he must have used that "pride" thing to tell Eric Montross to
    > heave that inbounds pass clear on up to the peanut vendor thus
    > allowing Virginia a final shot instead.
    
    Yup, Dean 'bad coached' that pass, just like he 'bad coaches' every
    missed shot and turnover.  There's a difference between physical
    mistakes that a coach has no control over and coaching blunders.
    
    If you want to see an example of good coaching, take a look at the end 
    of the Tech game.  With 3 seconds left and the entire court to traverse, 
    we got a layup.  If not for an unfriendly home clock-keeper the game
    woulda gone into OT.  There's not a coach in the country who prepares
    his team better for end-of-game situations than Dean.
    
    > It's catching up with him now.
    
    Just like it's caught up with him for all 702 wins Ketch.  (That's an
    *average* of 25 a year for 30 years, in case you're interested ...)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Let me re- ask which of the following more closely resembles propaganda:

1. Dean made a mistake in yesterdays game because his pride got in the
   way of calling a TO during Tech's 20-3 run.

2. Dean Smith is a good coach.


 both if you ask me. Pride is subjective. That Dean is a bad coach is a 
 given, good is the belief of a fanatical right wing group located in NC.     

 ;^)

mike

    I'll grant you number 1 is subjective Mike, but keep in mind I'm
    offering *criticism* here!  If I'm spewing propaganda I sure have
    strange tactics.
    
    Also keep in mind that just because a statement is subjective does not
    mean it's propaganda.  My comments were made in light of an analysis of
    the game, based on my knowledge of Dean.  Saying that 'Dean is a poor
    coach.' is intellectually dishonest, but par for the course around
    here.
    
    :^(
    
    - ACC Chris

    And saying that Deam Smith didn't call a time out because he was too
    damn proud to admit his team needed one is 100% pure blinded devotion.  
    Like a lamb to slaughter.
    
    And he calls *me* a bigot ...
    
    Geez, Soup, give it a rest one time, willya ???
    
    Smif' flubbed the time out non-call for any number of perfectly
    legitimate reasons.  Number one, of course, being that he's a human
    being and like everyone else is prone to making mistakes.   Hell, maybe
    the lights got in his eyes or something.   Or maybe he was having Jimmy
    Carter-style lustful visions of the cheerleaders or something.
    
    But to say that he was too proud of his philosophy to call one is just
    plain silly and doesn't advance your "Dean is God" cause one inch.   I
    admire your tenacity and determination to grunt-heave-push this giant
    rock of yours on top of all of us but, after a while, the admiration
    turns to laughter.   Beaucoup buckets of tears.
    
    Bob Hunt

    From .121:
    
>    Also keep in mind that just because a statement is subjective does not
>    mean it's propaganda.  My comments were made in light of an analysis of
>    the game, based on my knowledge of Dean.  
    
    From .119:
    
>    If not for an unfriendly home clock-keeper the game
>    woulda gone into OT.  There's not a coach in the country who prepares
>    his team better for end-of-game situations than Dean.
    
    So based on your knowledge of Dean, how come they lost yesterday?  Oh,
    must have been that clock keeper pressing the "SPEED UP" button.  Keep
    it coming.  Maybe you and Dean can be on at halftime next Super Bowl.
    
    8-)
    
    	--dan'l

    I'm having a hard time understanding why or how you two aren't
    interpreting my analysis of Dean's non-call on the TO yesterday as
    criticism.  It *IS* criticism!  I said he shoulda called it.  In
    hindsight he knows he shoulda called it.  His motivations for *not*
    calling it were based on pride, IMO, but so what?  It was a bad
    non-move, plain and simple.  Same thing happened in the '81 finals.  IU
    got off to a quick run in the 2nd half.  Dean waited for the TV timeout
    and by then it was too late.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    

    BTW, we did NOT lose yesterdays game because of the clock-keeper or
    the refs.  When you're up 16 in the 2nd half at home you've gotta win
    the game.  Reasons for the loss were three-fold, IMO:
    
    1. Failure to call TO during Tech's 20-3 run.  The team on the floor
       at the time was young.  We needed the TO either to insert fresh
       personnel or calm the kids down.
    
    2. Lousy to horrendous defense in the 2nd half.  Breakdowns were
       everywhere.  Tech continually got easy shots inside which were
       often accompanied by Carolina fouls.  In addition Geiger and
       Mackey were out-muscling us, and that simply shouldn't happen.
    
    3. Poor offensive execution.  Not a single Georgia Tech player fouled
       out, which is a sign we weren't going inside.  This was a very
       bad mistake, especially in light of the fact that we weren't shooting
       the ball well from the outside.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

re: .124

>    ... I said he shoulda called it.  In
>    hindsight he knows he shoulda called it.  His motivations for *not*
>    calling it were based on pride, IMO, but so what?  It was a bad
>    non-move, plain and simple.  Same thing happened in the '81 finals.  IU
>    got off to a quick run in the 2nd half.  Dean waited for the TV timeout
>    and by then it was too late.

What we have here is no longer a debate of whether Dean chokes or not,
but rather an analysis of *HOW* he chokes.

TTOM

�	Maybe you and Dean can be on at halftime next Super Bowl.

Why??

Are they going to have a `BUTT' Bowl!!!!!!


HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Sorry.... couldn't resist
Mike JN
    

    >2.  Dean Smith is a poor coach.
    
    Hear hear !!  It's gratifying to see you maturing, coming of age as
    a_analyst, Chris.  Kudos, babes.  At last we cain agree on something,
    cuz 'Snuffy Smif' *is* a poor coach, by Pantheon standards, at least.
    
    And how 'bout the part about the "unfriendly home timekeeper."  That
    was funny!  Btw, if a_active sports persona is inducted into a HoF,
    cain he play or coach his way right on out the door with wretched 
    performances?
    
    Big10 Tom

    
    Too facks to add to the fire.....
    
    1)  Dean Smith's record in 1 point games is 22-24.
    
    2)  First words out of Dean Smith's mouth after winning the NCAA
        championship after a gift from Fred Brown were:
    
    		" I was outcoached tonight...... "
    
    Outcoached by John Thompson????
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :-)

    HAA HA HA HO TOOFUNNYHOHO HAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!
    
    Big10 Tom

    There is another perspective in the UNC loss that hasn't yet been
    mentioned with all the "Dean choked" garbage. Tech played a helluva
    game in the second half. They put their green but talented front court
    to good use for a change. Tech controlled the boards in the second half
    and got their offense clicking. They came back from 16 down in the
    second half on the road against the #7 team in the country, so let's
    give the athletes that won the game on the floor a little credit,
    instead of bashing the coaches.
    
    Besides, the worst coaching move of the night was Cremins calling timeout
    with 3 seconds left and a 2 pt lead. That allowed UNC to save their final
    timeout to move the ball to halfcourt and set a higher percentage play
    than they could possibly have gotten from full court.
    
    The call at the end of the first half was proper. The replay clearly
    showed the ball bouncing on the floor out of bounds and the refs
    whistle blew with :01 on the clock. Again, let's give credit to Tech
    for running an excellent play to get an easy layup in :01.
    
    Road wins in the ACC are tough to come by and often result in winning
    the regular season title. Tech took a huge step with this win. They
    have gotten better progressively (Duke was an Aberration) and are in
    good shape for the sprint to the end.
    
    Re Kenny Anderson- last I looked he was averaging 29 ppg, 7 assists,
    and about 4 rebounds per game. Not too shabby considering that he is
    generally doubled as soon as he toches the ball. Tech really got their
    offense in gear against UNC when Jon Barry began bringing the ball
    upcourt, freeing Kenny to roam.
    
    GT(National Champions) Chris

    Agreed Chris, Tech should get proper credit for an outstanding "W".  
    
    But I gotta ask ya a hypothetical question:
    
    If the refs incorrectly allow the final shot by Fox and Carolina goes
    on to win in OT, how loud do you bellyache, given Tech's gift of a year
    ago against MSU?!
    
    (I asked this hypothetical question to my TechHaid brother and all's I
    got were mumbles and obfuscation!)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 Look for Ga Tech to crush Duke this Wednesday night.   
 
 There's the revenge factor for the 40-point blowout earlier this year at
 Cameron but there's also the Hurley Factor, that is, Duke sips big time
 when they play a conference team on the road with a better point guard.
 
 Kenny Anderson may not be God but he's light years ahead of Hurley.
 
 Bob Hunt

    If all goes according to plan I'll be courtside for the Tech-Duke game
    tomorrow night.  My TechHaid brother has promised to deliver 
    tickets for us ...
    
    I disagree with your Hurley analysis Ketch, and I think Duke could very
    well come away with a "W", although I hope not.  Hurley is capable of
    doing too many good things (along with his usual long list of bad
    things) to make such a categoric generalization.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re .132
    
    The buzzer nonbeater against MSU was a gift from on high and I've never
    said otherwise. However, Tech went on to dominate the OT and won
    easily. Had UNC done the same, I would have been distraught, but not
    raving. Actually, Tech deserved to have the shot by Fox count for
    stupidly calling the TO and for not cutting off the baseline.
    
    Officiating was an important factor in this game because it was
    lopsided by 2-1 in UNC's favor, when they normally get about a 4-1
    lopsided advantage in the Dean Dong ;^)
    
    Does the fact that there was a bad call almost a year ago have any
    bearing on the fact that there were no bad calls in this game?
    
    GT(#1) Chris

   � I disagree with your Hurley analysis Ketch, and I think Duke could very
   � well come away with a "W", although I hope not.  Hurley is capable of
   � doing too many good things (along with his usual long list of bad
   � things) to make such a categoric generalization.
    
 Categoric what ???  Read it in the papers, Soup.   Hurley and Duke go to
 Charlottesville and John Crotty blows his doors off.   Hurley and Duke go
 to Raleigh and Chris Corchiani scorches him.
    
 Now they travel to Atlanta to meet up with Kenny Anderson.
    
 So what's wrong with the analysis ???   Bobby Hurley plays poorly on the
 road against better point guards and Duke loses.   Prove it otherwise.  
 So far this year it holds true.
    
 Duke very well may win and I'm sure you'll be in here the very next day to
 tell me all about it if they do.  But I do not expect Bobby Hurley to
 outplay Kenny Anderson *in* Atlanta.   He hasn't outplayed the other top
 point guards on the road so I don't expect him to start doing so now,
 especially against Anderson.
    
 Bob Hunt

    Your analysis is like a blind date that's a 100% fox when you meet
    her but then picks her nose and belches during dinner.  In other
    words, looks great at first, but leaves much to be desired upon closer
    examination.  (Actually I stole that analogy from last nights Murphy
    Brown - truly one of the funnier shows on the tube at the moment ...)
    
    Anyways I don't see enough evidence to support your claim.  True, Duke
    lost both games, but drawing your conclusion seems a bit preliminary to
    me.  (I don't have the stats, but I recall Corchiani only had 12 points
    in the Duke/State game.)
    
    You can count on Hurley to play pretty solid defense.  His offense is
    spastic and his turnovers come in droves, but as long as he's holding
    up his end defensively Duke can win on the road against anybody.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    You can count on Hurley to play pretty solid defense.  

His defense consists entirely of the classic "fall down and the refs
think you drew the charge" and attempting to slap the ball out of the
opponents hands before they go up and over him. If these two gestures
don't work, which is most of the time, his defense is anything but solid.
Nor is he "holding up his end".

No problems with the assessment on offense and turnovers.

But as point guards go, you have to rate him below Anderson, Corchianni,
and Crotty. He's on the same level as King Rice, who played him even at
Duke and you heard it hear first, will outplay him at the Dean Dome.

TTom

    re: .-1
    
    You then concur with the results of BobHunt's tightly wound algorithm,
    which states that Duke *cannot* win on the road against a team with a
    quality PG?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

It seems a scandal has been uncovered at Virginia. Like it's sister 
schools, Notre Dame and No Carolina, UVa has usually managed to supress  
information that may not reflect favorably on the university. Lou Holtz 
is doing some serious broken field running with the questions of his 
acitivities at Big 10 member Minnesota. No ones talking about King Rice's 
assault and subsequent secret wrist slap. And now, the Virginia pep band 
stands accused of killing Elvis at half time of the Sugar Bowl!

Seriously folks, we've got trouble. Right here in Charlottesville, we've 
got trouble. Apparently many found their half time routine which climaxed 
with the band making a flesh pile on top of an Elvis impersonator. The 
announcer declared Elvis officially dead.

I guess Tennessee, down 16-0 at half, probably weren't sporting much of a
sense of humor.

TTom

   � You then concur with the results of BobHunt's tightly wound algorithm,
   � which states that Duke *cannot* win on the road against a team with a
   � quality PG?
    
 Not "*cannot*", Soup, but "*has not*".   There is a *HUGE* difference
 between the two.   I'm using documented past performance as a predictor of
 future results.  This is a time-honored forecasting technique and has been
 proven to be extremely accurate especially when March rolls around and one
 considers the Tar Heels' annual shortage of title hardware.
 
 However, like all predictors, it is flawed and may not reflect the actual
 result yet to be determined.
    
 If you wish to take some sort of twisted pleasure at my expense out of a
 Duke win tonight, then, please, by all means, go right ahead.  I'll still
 sleep just fine.
 
 Whatever pulls your little red wagon ...
 
 Bob Hunt

� And now, the Virginia pep band ...
 
 Ah, the University of Virginia Pep Band.  Guaranteed instant smile every
 time I recall their antics.   For those who have never seen them, they are
 an "anti-band" based on the same model as most of the Ivy League bands and
 Stanford, too.
 
 That is, no regimented uniforms, no tight precision marching, no flag or
 baton bimbos, lots of bitter and outrageous satire, sub-par (but who
 cares) musical talent, and a notorious reputation.
 
 When the football team annually went 1-10, the Pep Band was one of the
 only two reasons to go to a game.  The other, of course, was your hip
 flask.   We enjoyed halftime much more than the actual football on the
 field.   And we always laughed our drunken butts off at the other teams'
 traditional precision bands especially the ridiculous "Hightie-Tighties"
 of Virginia Tech.
 
 Their most notorious moment back in the late 70s was when they went to
 Maryland one year and came out on the field with everyone wearing fake
 prison ball and chains on their ankles.  This was right after the governer
 of Maryland (I forget his name) had been tossed in the slammer for some
 white-collar ethics corruption crime.   Oooh boy, were the Twerps ever
 pissed about that one ...
 
 Another time Bob Hope was on the field with them and had a ball.  He was
 in town for a show and the band convinced him to join them on the field.
 
 The Pep Band is dear to every Wahoo heart and the Sugar Bowl-Elvis thing
 is pure Pep Band.  Nice to see some traditions lasting.   No doubt Soup
 thinks they're as irritating as the Duke students which makes me smile
 even more.
 
 Bob Hunt

    re: .-1
    
    I have no problem using your 'past performance as predictor of
    future results' in regards to Duke having troubles on the road.
    Course that could be said for any team in the ACC right now, so it's
    hardly significant or interesting.
    
    My objection stems from laying it on Hurley.  There's hardly precedent
    for this - in fact, I'd say quite the opposite is true.  (Corchiani
    only scored 12 on him @ State; he led Duke to the Final 4 last year,
    beating, among others, a UConn team *loaded* at the guard position.)
    
    BTW, UVa laid a *terrible* beating on State last night, trouncing them
    by 30+ points.  (Must be State's backcourt - cain't play on da road
    ...)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
>    My objection stems from laying it on Hurley.  There's hardly precedent
>    for this - in fact, I'd say quite the opposite is true.  (Corchiani
>    only scored 12 on him @ State; he led Duke to the Final 4 last year,
>    beating, among others, a UConn team *loaded* at the guard position.)


 When your point guard averages less than 2-1 on his assists/turnover
 ratio then he should receive a big deal of the blame. It could also
 be said that Duke made it to the final 4 last year inspite of Hurley.

 mike

    >When your point guard averages less than 2-1 on his assists/turnover
    >ratio then he should receive... blame.
    
    Sorry Mike.  Dan disallowed this concept some time ago (Kenny Smif').
    Said it made too much sense.
    
    Big10 Tom

    Here's some objective information on Bob Hurley, courtesy of this weeks
    Poop Sheet.
    
    First and foremost, he's *leading* the ACC in Assists, with 8.2 a game.
    Mike claims he has a 2/1 assist/turnover ratio.  I find that difficult
    to believe, but I don't have his current turnover number.  If it's
    more than 4, I'll be AMAZED.
    
    Now for some commentary.  (BTW, the Poop Sheet is extremely sluggish in
    its compliments of players, and it's extremely non-biased.  Can't
    afford to be, what with each subscriber loathing at least a couple of
    the teams covered!)
    
    "At Maryland, Hurley exploded for a career-high 26 points, on 10-of-15
    (5-for-8 3-pointers) shooting and 10 assists.  The 6-0 sophomore had
    played stellar defense on Kenny Anderson in the Tech game, while adding
    13 points and nine assists."
    
    (FYI, the Maryland game was on the road, and the Terps PG is Walt
    Williams, who I'll guarantee will be in the NBA someday.)
    
    More ...
    
    "Hurley had 14 points, eight assists, and one turnover in Duke's 89-67
    win over Wake Forest.  The point guard has clearly answered the
    challenge of playing the ACC's top guards after a dismal showing in
    Charlottesville.  Hurley shot one of eight in that game with six
    assists and 8 turnovers -- one of the worst games of his career."
    
    (Clearly, BobHunt has taken *one* bad game by Hurley and translated
    that into a_ill-advised algorithm of doom for the kid.)
    
    Here's more ...
    
    "Nonetheless, Hurley now hits nearly 40% of his threes and leads Duke
    in 3-point field goals.  He has become an inspirational floor leader
    and has stepped up his offensive production from a year ago.  He's the
    team's third-leading scorer, averaging around 13 points per game."
    
    Nuf said.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Yeah, State got spanked on the raod. They stink on the road and
Corchianni is sometimes the leading stinkee. 

However, when citing the Corchianni-Hurley matchup, the 12 pts hardly
reflects how much Hurley was outplayed. First of all, his 18 points were
all from 3-points: no points taking it to the hole, no free throws, etc.

TTom

    I just love it when you guys fight like that, it msure makes SPORTS
    enjoyable to read.  Duke will win tonight and Hurley will play like an
    MVP.  Biased opinion naturally.
    
    GO DUKE!!!!
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.
    

    re: .-1
    
    Clearly, D-boy, the ACC note is consistently the most intewesting and fun
    in SPORTS.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Let see it was probably the Duke/GT game that I was watching when they
said that on the year Hurley had 93 assists and 58 turnovers for a less
than 2-1 ratio. Given that that was probably around game 10 to 15 for
Duke it would put his assist totals at around 8 a game or so, and turnovers
at 4 to 5 a game...For once I'm using stats and not my own POPB....

My own POPB says he stinks and you are holding up as a becon because he's
the one point guard in the conference that Rice compares to as an equal.
Ok by me cause they both bite....

Did Walt Williams play in that Maryland game? Isn't he hurt?

mike

And I know Hurley was at or near ten turnovers against UNC... with about
an equal number of assists.

2 to 1 would be average.   1 to 1 would be terrible.   

I think it's Jamaal Meeks of Indiana was near 4 to 1 not too long ago.
And Muggsy Bogues of the Hornets must be near that too.

Which brings up another question:

	Where can I get individual player stats for college teams?  

    I don't pay much attention but would guess either USA Today or the
    National have the stats for the leading players, but I don't know on
    what day.  Unlike with baseball, there's no comprehensive listing on a
    regular basis that I know of for all players nationwide.  I would
    suggest (seriously) that you write to the NCAA to see if there's any
    sort of weekly newsletter they put out that's available to the public. 
    Since there doesn't seem to be an overwhelming demand for it, I would
    doubt there is one.
    
    One of the end results of fantasy/rotisserie sports is the wider-spread
    dissemination of individual player stats and since college basketball
    doesn't have fantasy leagues (at least that I know of) the numbers
    aren't really widely published.
    
    John

re: Walt Williams.

He is out a couple of weeks. Leg or ankle injury, I think. He missed the
State game that Maryland won.

FWIW, Muggsy Bogues led the NBA in the assist to turnover ratio. He was
the only one (some minimum number of assists, I guess) over 5. His real
numbers are almost always right at 10 and 2.

I have no idea where to get every college stats. Local news has the
league leaders for ACC.

One more thing. Knorr mentioned the Poop Sheet. Well guess where it's
published. Right: Chapel Hill, NC. Now tell us again about how non-biased
it is. With the zealotry of the Tar Heels, anybody who wants to make
money peddling ACC news has got to be pro Tar Heels. They have a
veritable stranglehold on sports media around here.

TTom

    You are correct TTom, Poop Sheet is published in Chapel Hill.  In fact,
    former Tar Heel Dennis Wuycik, is the publisher.  That's the good news.
    
    The bad news is the Poop Sheet is without question rough on Carolina. 
    This week they pick 'em apart in both the cover story detailing the
    league race and the in-depth column covering the team.  
    
    And I will repeat:  The Poop Sheet is fair and objective, although,
    IMHO, it's overly negative on Carolina.  (Let's remember though that
    the current issue at hand is Bobby Hurley, *NOT* UNC!)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

The Poop Sheet being rough on the current Tar Heels is about like the Tar
Heels booing King Rice. You gotta love that the so called faithful are
already uneasy with the performance of this team and the Fab Five
Freshmen. And it's typical that the Tar Heels ascribe the problems to the
players and not to Dean.

I'll reread the Poop Sheet article mentioned.

TTom

Chris,

Assessment time:

	Are you happy with the performance of what was considered the
	number one recruiting class in the country last year, and {by some}
	of the last decade?   How about Montross specifically?  I believe
	you pegged him at around 10 points/5 boards a game pre-season... 
	{I may be wrong}

	Do you think George Lynch and Hubert Davis get enough PT?

	Do you like to see Henrik Rodl on the floor?   

	Where does top recruit Henry Williams fit into the system next
	year?

> FWIW, Muggsy Bogues led the NBA in the assist to turnover ratio. He was
> the only one (some minimum number of assists, I guess) over 5. His real
> numbers are almost always right at 10 and 2.
    
    A pure assist-to-turnover ratio isn't going to tell you the whole
    story on a point guard.  The first thing you've got to know is what the
    break-even ratio is (where the net gain from an assist cancels the net
    loss from a turnover).  Then you've got to look at the gross stats to
    determine the total net gain/loss for the player.
    
    Let's say the break-even is 1.5, where an assist counts for a point and
    a turnover for a loss of a point and a half.  The player who makes 12 
    assists a game and commits 4 turnovers (3:1) nets his team six points 
    where the player who makes 8 assists and 2 turnovers (4:1) nets only 
    five.  Add to this the fact that the player with the higher numbers 
    is probably more aggressive and is depended on to make more (and more
    difficult) plays where he's not permitted to pick his spots at the
    expense of the team, and the high-volume guy is probably the better
    player, in spite of the higher turnover ratio.
    
    Once you've also factored in points scored (why should a good shooter 
    be penalized for cutting out the middleman and a possible turnover or
    missed shot by scoring himself?) and the number of opportunities 
    (accounting for offensive inflation at the expense of defense a la 
    Denver/LMU), and it becomes evident that it's pretty difficult to take 
    a good measure of a player with a single, simple stat.
    
    glenn
      

    It ain't Henry Williams Ross, it's Donald Williams, and he's widely
    considered the #1 WG prospect in the USA.
    
    Speaking of which, Donald Williams himself writes an article in this 
    weeks Poop Sheet detailing his decision-making process and all the 
    recruiting that went on.  (If I were you TTom, I'd skip that article. 
    Might be a tad painful!  Heh heh!!)
    
    I think it's way too premature to evaluate our freshmen.  After all,
    they *are* freshmen.  In years gone by, they wouldn't even be eligible
    yet.  I will say that I see tremendous potential in each-and-every one
    of 'em.  
    
    Dean has been caught between a rock and a hard place this year.  The
    youngsters haven't come around quickly - Deano himself said on his TV
    show he keeps waiting for one of them to really step forward.  So far,
    nada.  
    
    All of which should highlights what a terrific year Pete Chilcutt and
    King Rice are having.  Chilcutt has been terrific - 10rpg; 18.7ppg. 
    Plus some clutch play.  Rice has really pulled his game together. 
    After a horrid start he's only commited 13 turnovers in 10 games.  His
    scoring is up; his assists are up.  
    
    Biggest disapointment so far hasn't been the frosh though - it's been
    Rick Fox.  This guy's supposed to be our scoring leader.  In sum, he
    hasn't delivered the goods!  
    
    Still a long way to go in this season though.  Fox could turn it around
    and one of the Fab Five could step forward.  It's gonna have to happen
    for UNC to challenge for the ACC Title.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

 The Poop Sheet is aptly named in my opinion.
    
   � I think it's way too premature to evaluate our freshmen.  After all,
   � they *are* freshmen.  In years gone by, they wouldn't even be eligible
   � yet.  I will say that I see tremendous potential in each-and-every one
   � of 'em.  
    
 Yet it was not "too premature" (nice redundancy, by the way ...) for the
 Tar Heel faithful to call them the Fab Five or the greatest recruiting
 class in history or any of about four or five other hyper-accolades.  
 Now, of course, as they are sipping big time under "The System", it
 becomes "too premature" to judge them.   I say that *TO DATE* they have
 been judged incorrectly.
    
   � Dean has been caught between a rock and a hard place this year.  The
   � youngsters haven't come around quickly - Deano himself said on his TV
   � show he keeps waiting for one of them to really step forward.  So far,
   � nada.  
    
 Oh, please.  "Rock and a hard place" indeed.  The guy recruits gobs of
 talent and then shamelessly wastes it by forcing it to play according to
 some ancient and ultimately ineffectual choreography while at the same
 time being too *proud* to call timeouts.   The "rock" is his left brain
 and the "hard place" is his right brain.
    
 A good coach would find a way, somehow and in some way, to let his players
 "step forward".   Smif', on the other hand, squashes them flat and then
 spoon-feeds the adoring faithful with this tripe about "waiting for one of
 them to step forward".   And the faithful just slurp it right up. 
 
 Dean Smith -- Still the only man to ever hold Michael Jordan to less than
 20 points a game.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Kenny Anderson had 32 points, 7 rebounds, and set a new school record
    with 8 steals.
    
    Bobby Hurley had 5 points on 2 of 11 shooting from the field.
    
    Yet Duke won 77-75 on a buzzer beater layup.  Hurley had the winning
    assist.  Duke is 6-2 in conference and Tech is 5-3.
    
    Good night, time to hit the sack.
    
    Bob Hunt

    No victory for me Ketch - I was pulling for Tech.  Anderson was unreal
    last night, and yet his missed free throw at the end was utterly
    devastating.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    Biggest disapointment so far hasn't been the frosh though - it's been
>    Rick Fox.  This guy's supposed to be our scoring leader.  In sum, he
>    hasn't delivered the goods!  

Gosh, I've never seen this happen at Chapel Hill! 

I mean every time the guy shoots he looks at the bench to see if he's
being headed to the pine. See, it's another "rock and hard place": Dean
may yank Fox if he misses it or makes it. At No Carolina, Dean benches
players who hit shots that are not part of the system. Even if you make
them often. Even if it's your shot. It's that way or you don't play.

TTom

That was the best game I've seen Kenny Anderson play in a long time.... He
looked all-world last night.   {shot 12-21}

This Tech team may be a tough one later in the season.   Malcom Mackey is
coming into his own... Geiger as well.  And Jon Barry is a heady player.

UNC plays Clemson tonight.  Clemson is the worst team in the ACC.  A 20
point spread should be in order.

>    Bobby Hurley had 5 points on 2 of 11 shooting from the field.
    
    And looked godawful in the process (though the last pass was a great
    one).  Anderson ate him alive, chewed him up, and spit on him.  Two
    classics that stick with me are:
    
    	- Anderson drives around Hurley.  While Hurley is still looking 
    	  at where Anderson was, Kenny is five feet around him and 
    	  Laettner picks up his 4th (which was a terrible call)
    	
    	- Hurley is guarding Anderson to the point of being toe to toe
    	  and grabbing his jersey.  Anderson just dribbles right around
    	  him.  
    
    Were you there, Chris?  Thought I saw you.  Yellow and black suit...big
    grin...antanae? 8-)
    
    The officiating was terrible.  Worse than Big East officiating for a
    change.  My basic complaint is that they called a lot of crucial touch
    fouls and totally went whistleless on some slammers.
    
    RE: Dean's Coaches Show
    
    WBTV in Charlotte pre-empted the first half hour of the Georgetown Pitt
    game Saturday to show it.  All the more reason to hate Smith and the
    Tarholes.
    
    	--dan'l
    
    

    re: TTom  (part of the system)
    
    Okay, I'll fight this battle on your turf.  
    
    Assuming it's true that 'The System' is forcing Fox to miss all those
    open J's, isn't also true that 'The System' dictates that seniors are
    gonna get the majority of the PT?  (Given that Fox is averaging over 30
    minutes per game, I'd say this is true, System or no System.)
    
    Fox knows he's gonna play - there's no looking over the shoulder on his
    part.  He's just not shooting the ball well right now.  Hopefully he'll
    turn things around before the NBA Draft, or it's gonna hurt him,
    bucks-wise.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    No, I wadn't thare.  (Many :^('s)
    
    My brother calls me yesterday afternoon and tells me he's taking a
    client to the game.  I think he felt bad though when he heard sobs and
    sniffles on the other end of the line.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>I think he felt bad though when he heard sobs and
>    sniffles on the other end of the line.

Doing your "Dean Smith post-NCAA Tournament" impression again, Chris?

>   <<< Note 17.166 by RHETT::KNORR "Anderson wins battle;Hurley wins war" >>>
    
    I think you need to modify that P_Name to 
    	
    	'Duke's bench wins war; Hurley missing in action'
    

    I tuned in to see what all the fuss was about concerning Kenny
    Anderson's demise and he was *fantastic*.  I think Vitale might have
    wet his pants when Kenny went between the legs and behind the back on
    Hurley (who pretty much stuck with him anyway in spite of all the 
    excess motion) before hitting the short jumper.
    
    What was that little diatribe on Hurley from Vitale about "My dad's a
    great coach and he taught me defense but he didn't prepare me to
    defense a Kenny Anderson (babieeee!)..."?  He all but flat out called 
    Hurley a whiner judging by the intonation in his voice.  Has Vitale 
    shown this particular disposition towards Hurley before?
    
    glenn
       

    Vitale goes nuts like that whenever he gets a chance.  Everyone says
    he's got the best insight, knows the recruiting scene better than
    anyone, and injects the most enthusiasm into the game.   To me he's the
    reason to reach for the mute button.
    
    He epitomizes, to me, the adage that those who can't play become
    coaches.   And those that can't coach become announcers.   Those that
    can't announce sell insurance.   Vitale is a step away from a State
    Farm office.
    
    He loves Kenny Anderson and concerning the move you mentioned that he
    went especially ga-ga over, I thought it was rather ho-hum routine for
    the "greatest point guard ever".   Between the legs, around the back,
    stop and pop.    Big deal.  I'll bet he's done that one about six or
    seven thousand times on the playground against guys a *LOT* tougher
    than Babby Hurley.
    
    Hurley is a whiner.  He's a coach's kid so the whining comes naturally.  
    It's part of his game.
    
    Bob Hunt

 Glenn, in general Dicky goes ga-ga over Hurley except when he plays
 Dicky's number 1 player in the universe Kenny....Unlike Doug, myself
 and the just about the rest of the free world if all players were 
 available this draft, Dicky would pass on the Shack and take Kenny.

 Great analogy Bob, I hope the State Farm days start soon!!!!!!!!


 mike

    
 > and the just about the rest of the free world if all players were 
 > available this draft, Dicky would pass on the Shack and take Kenny.
    
    Well, I'm not sure of this one.  I heard Vitale have a serious "Shack
    Attack" earlier this year on ABC when Shaquille threw down a dunk in
    garbage time.  Combined with Keith Jackson (who somehow just doesn't
    seem to be able to keep up with the action out of his natural element 
    of the gridiron), I thought that coverage of college basketball on 
    the networks had just taken one giant step backwards.
    
    glenn
    

 Glenn, if a stiff like Eric Montross threw down a rimbreaker, Vitale would
 have tight shuddering experience. I base my belief that he would pass on
 the Shack because a. Dicky loves little guys who are players and the fact
 that he has proclaimed Kenny the greatest point guard ever when the kid hasn't
 even step on an NBA court. He also feed us the disclaimer that Magic isn't a
 point guard in this comparision cause he can play all five posistions but even
 still to claim that Kenny is already better thans say KJ, Stockton, Isiah,
 Tiny, The Big O etc is ludicrious. He has never claimed Shack to be better
 than Akeem, Pat, the Admiral etc. 

 mike   

    Hurley stunk last night, but he DID deliver the assist that won the
    game.  Great game.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    
    re .170
    
>    Vitale goes nuts like that whenever he gets a chance.  Everyone says
>    he's got the best insight, knows the recruiting scene better than
>    anyone, and injects the most enthusiasm into the game.   To me he's the
>    reason to reach for the mute button.
 
    I wasn't one of those "Everyone" people. I usually USE the mute button
    when gets on a spiel. And I'm sick of him raving about tams that have
    "cupcake" scheudles, especially G'Town. Hell, the Big East more than
    makes up for that .... I think his biggest orgasms come when either
    he's praising Kenny, Shaquille, or trashing the Hoyas.
       
>    He epitomizes, to me, the adage that those who can't play become
>    coaches.   And those that can't coach become announcers.   Those that
>    can't announce sell insurance.   Vitale is a step away from a State
>    Farm office.
 
    Funniest line of the year so far. I spit soda all over the place !
    
    Oh yeah, one other thang. Bobby Hurley is the most overhyped, overrated
    player since Steve Alford. Scott Skiles is up there, but he turned out
    to be a decent player in the NBA.
    
    Doc
       

>Bobby Hurley... Steve Alford... Scott Skiles...

Um... let me think... what do they have in common... um....  

    Just so we all don't get accused of ugly stereotyping, a-la the Duke
    student nerds, cain't we put King Rice in that group?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

re: way back to .165

Let's look at this System another way. Chris, what do you think Rodney
Monroe's average would be if he played for Dean? Fox for Cremins?

I'm not sure what point, if any, you're trying to make about seniors and
PT, but that too is part of the System to the extent that if you're a
designated starter, like Fox, your junior year, you're a starter your
senior year. Dean's been trying to back out of that this year because
he's having such a hard time finding a team.

But if you don't think that Dean supresses natural offensive talent then
one must assume that the likes of Worthy, Walter Davis and Michael
Jorndan musta got a lot better the summer after they left Chapel Hill. A
current classic, even a better example than Fox, is Rozier. Yeah, I've
heard all that nonsense about no D but even when he is on the court for
whatever little time, he never goes to the hole. How do you explain that?

TTom

    PPG is a poor singular metric of a ballplayer.  Better to ask the
    question 'Would (name your favorite ex-Carolina player) be as complete
    a player today if he'd played for (name your favorite non-Carolina
    coach'.
    
    I suspect not everyone will agree with me on the answer to this
    question, but at least we'll be debating the right thing.
    
    > I'm not sure what point, if any, you're trying to make about seniors
    > and PT ...
    
    Simply this.  You blamed 'The System' for Fox shooting poorly this
    year, stating that he's skeered of being benched if he takes a bad
    shot.  Yet according to your own definition of 'The System', seniors
    will play almost irregardless of their performance.
    
    Seems to be a contradiction in your logic ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Don't blame me if the system seems like a contradiction. I won't dispute
you on that one.

Fox plays because of the system. Any problem so far. See he was a starter
last year, therefore...

Fox does not shoot well because of the system. That's the first point.
Any problem with that opinion?

>    PPG is a poor singular metric of a ballplayer. 

Now where did I say anything about measuring ballplayers. I addressed
offensive performance.

If you want to measure overall playing, I've already stated that this
team's MVP is Chilcutt but I'd never say he was the "best" player on the
team. In fact, if you gave this same team to a lot of other coaches, Pete
might spend long periods of time on the bench and Rozier might spend long
periods of the court taking it very aggressively to the hole on almost
anyone. In fact, I'd venture a guess that almost every other coach would
add that into their system, if it weren't there already.

TTom

    >Just so we all don't get accused of ugly stereotyping, a-la the Duke
    >student nerds, cain't we put King Rice in that group?
    
    > ACC Chris
    
    No King Rice was rated by ALL the experts as the top ranked pt. guard
    coming out of H.S.  In fact he was one of the most heavily touted point
    guards to come out(up to that point in the 80's).  Everyone was after
    him.  Dean simply wasted that enormous talent and turned him into the
    typical NC point guard bogged down by the 'system'.  This is not a bash
    on Dean, it's the truth.
    
    Cap(who saw Rice play in H.S.)
    

 For every Michael Jordan, Walter Davis, James Worthy that came out of UNC
 a more rounded player there is a JR Reid, Brad Daugherty, Kenny Smith etc.
 So it's my belief that the first group took the best parts of the system
 and incorparated them into their game. The later group never learnt a thing
 from the system which doesn't speak highly for one who' s supposed to be 
 such a teacher of young men. Just like Video killed the radio star, the
 shot clock killed the Deano star....

 mike

    Sloppy win for Carolina last night.  Clemson is DOWN this year, with a
    capital "D".  Thoroughly outmanned.  Their guards are *scary*, they're
    so bad.  
    
    Rick Fox bounced back from a bad shooting spell and tied a career high. 
    Maybe he's pulled out of his shooting slump.  (Dean wasn't overly
    thrilled with his play though.  In the post-game press conference he
    sez he got on Rick for a turnover and then he went out and committed a
    couple more!)
    
    But the biggest encouragement to me was the play of the freshmen. 
    Rozier played, IMO, the best game of his career.  He scored, rebounded,
    blocked shots.  This kid can play.  Hopefully Dean will respond with
    more PT.  And while it won't show in the box score, Montross showed
    promise.  Much more aggressive and confident out there.  Took it to the
    hoop with authority.  Phelps played well also.
    
    The Fab Five may be disapointing to the press this year, but I'll tell
    ya there are some good years ahead for this group.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

From what I saw {first half only}, King Rice was playing some of his best
ball offensively... Taking it quick and hard to the hoop for some tough
layups.   Why he doesn't do that more often is beyond me, unless it has to
do with the quality of the Clemson guards {who were just slightly better than
Purdue's }.

I bet Dale Davis would've gone pro last year if he knew what was in store
for this season.   Davis must have the lowest % of body fat of any player 
I've seen.   Unfortunately, none of the Tiger guards can get him the ball.

Re: Montross showing good things...

C'mon, Chris... The highest rated frosh center in the country should be scoring
at least 10 ppg and grabbing 8 boards.     Damon Bailey's scoring 19, 21 
points in games lately.  Rodney Rogers at Wake is putting up big numbers.  
Eric Montross should not be a project.    Who's the problem, Dean or Eric?

A big Did Not Cover last night for the Tar Heels. Clemson had the right
game plan - bombs away from the outside. Dean won't adjust to that.
Unfortunately, to win doing this you have to be able to hit the shots.

Rice looked good taking it to the hole. I didn't know this was part of
the offense.

Chris, when's the Tar Heels next non-conference games? 

TTom

    Carolina only has one (1) non-conference game left.  It's at home
    against The Citadel, Monday, 2/18.  
    
    IMO Jim Valvano is the #1 college hoops color commentator.  He's truly 
    an entertaining man, and not-too-dumb hoops-wise either.
    
    As to Rice's hoops not being part of 'The System', you musta missed one
    of Jimmy V's 'Pieces of the Puzzle', one of which was TRANSITION.
    
    re: Ross
    
    First we have T-hypocrisy (tm) from TTom, now you.  Correct me if I'm 
    wrong, but weren't you the one who noted that Montross was slow, 
    cumbersome, and generally overrated?  Now you say he's playing poorly 
    because of bad coaching.
    
    Which one is it?
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    
    
    

Chris,

Re-read my note... I didn't say that it was Dean's fault that Montross
is not doing as well.  I ASKED you whether you thought it was Eric or
Dean - as in "Eric is not as talented as we had hoped" or "Dean is not
giving Montross enough playing time or involvement in the offense to let
him show his talent".

I really don't think Dean is a bad coach.... just like I don't think James
Worthy is a bad player.    But each is held in such high regard, that pointing
out what seem like flaws incur the wrath of the UNC/Laker faithful.  I think
Dean over-coaches at times.   He doesn't seem to try and build a team that 
will win THIS YEAR.   He's done an admirable job at creating a program that
achieves better-than-normal performance consistently... and seems to select
and nurture good people who also play well.   But when I read things like in
the recent SI article about having the freshmen tote the seniors bags, I 
wonder "what's the point?"  

One of my favorite players anywhere right now is George Lynch.  He could be
a 20 ppg man now, but seems like all he gets is leftovers on the offensive
end.   I'd love to see him on the floor for 36 minutes a game, but instead,
we see Henrik Rodl, Pat Sullivan, Salvadori, etc.  WHY?  WHY?  WHY?

Back to Montross... if he were at IU or Michigan, he'd probably be getting
twice the playing time and more involvement in the offense.   How else is
he going to develop into a top center without that competition.

Doug,

You gotta be careful with these guys, T and ACChris, who apparently have
quite a bit in common. 

Now we got a True Blue using info from Valvano. Who'd a thunkd it?

TTom

    re: TTom
    
    Hey, I never had anything against Jimmy V.  Always seemed like
    a nice guy.  Never had any reservations on his hoops knowledge either,
    and that dates back to his days at Iona.
    
    
    re: Ross
    
    Eric would be playing a ton at Michigan, no doubt.  He'd probably be
    playing more at IU also.  He knew coming to Chapel Hill that his PT
    would be lower than at other schools, especially his freshman year. 
    And yet he still came.  (This year he's playing essentially behind Pete
    Chilcutt, who some are now projecting as a first or second round NBA
    pick.)
    
    This is consistent with what post-Dean players say.  Both in his
    biography and on his coaches show ex-Heels invariably will say
    say they could've played more somewhere else, but the overall 
    basketball experience at Chapel Hill is second-to-none.
    
    Throw in the undying loyalty Dean has toward his players (both present
    and ex) and you've got people like Donald Williams committing to
    Carolina even though Les Robinson was guaranteeing him a starting job.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 And it's reading notes like this latest Soup tongue job on Dean Smith that
 make me continue to hit my knees every night and swear an ever-undying
 devotion to seeing them lose every single game they ever play.
 
 If the Tar Heels under Smif' were to ever put up a season slate like this
 one ...
 		... 0-14 conference, 0-25 overall
 
 I will immediately dial 1-800 to St. Peter at the Pearly Gates of Heaven
 and tell him it's okay, I'm ready to go.
 
 Bob Hunt

The Donald Williamson Story reminds me of Curtis Hunter Story. When
Hunter was being recruited, he chose Carolina and Dean over State,
Valvano and a promise to start. Hunter's career was highlighted by
several significant injuries and coincided with a 5 year span wherein No
Carolina failed to win even an ACC title.

Chris, as regards your appreciation for Jimmy V, I would never say that
Dean is lacking in hoops knowledge or any other aspect of coaching. This,
of course, makes his approach to the sport all the more inexplicible.

TTom

    > The Donald Williamson Story
    
    DONALD WILLIAMS.  WILLIAMS!!  What is it wif you and Ross that you
    cain't get this guys name right?!!!!!
    
    Anyways, ...
    
    I haven't read where Curtis had any regrets on going to Carolina. 
    Injuries hurt him, no question.  He was also a victim of unrealistic
    expectations.  (At the time he was bearing the cross of being 'The
    Next Michael Jordan'.  Brian Reese seems to be the current Tar Heel
    shouldering *that* unfair burden ...)  
    
    But speaking of promised playing time, what about Andy Kennedy?  Didn't
    Jimmy V promise that kid he'd play, and that welsh on the deal?!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

So, Chris, how is William Donaldson doing in H.S.?  Is he putting up big
numbers?

Yeah, I never did figure out what went wrong in the Andy Kennedy deal. He
was going to be the next Pack star with a shot that didn't quit. However,
in all the Wolfpackgate (tm), you never heard squat from Andy. He
transfered to UAB. At this point in time, I think Andy's been around 6
years: 1 at State, sit out 1 year, medical hardship 1 year, and 3 years
playing. He had a very serious knee injury.

I always felt bad for Curtis. He woulda done much better even playing for
Wake. His main problem was that he wasn't as good as he looked in high
school.

TTom

    re .176
    
    Steve Alford - Supposedly the 2nd coming of Pete Maravich or Danny
    Ainge, or Jerry West, depending on who I read that week.
    
    Turned out that Stevie is damned good coming off a pick, but is a
    mechanical man who would be a lot better in the NBA, if only the NBA
    had a 40 second shot clock. 
    
    Scott Skiles - Another Magic Johnson. Uh huh ... had a monster game
    against G'Town in the NCAA's, which doubled the hype (and his draft
    position). Couldn't stay out of trouble, then couldn't stay healthy.
    Now he's doing great things with the Magic.
    
    Bobby Hurley - Another 'legend' at point guard. I'll admit I don't
    watch a lot of ACC games. But the first time I saw him, he looked
    average. The second time, slightly better. Then against UNLV, their
    guards had him so screwed up, he was picking up his dribble at the
    mid-court line. Then Kenny Anderson reduces him to ash.
    
    You tell me Doug.
    
    Hurley reminds me of ???? Ware, who was a point guard at UNLV a few
    years back (with Freddie Banks and Armon Gilliam). Ware led the nation
    in assists, but his shooting range was worse than mine is now, and I
    have a busted finger and whiplash. Seriously one-dimensional (Doug
    Ross' type of player I suppose :-). Hurley ain't much better.
    
    re ACC Chris                                                 
    
    As for King Rice, I haven't see him or the Heels enough to make a
    judgement. From what Bob and Cap are saying - it's a good thing. :-)
    
    Doc

>    Steve Alford - Supposedly the 2nd coming of Pete Maravich or Danny
>    Ainge, or Jerry West, depending on who I read that week.

	Right.   I will bet my last dollar that noone has ever made any
	comparison between Steve Alford's basketball skills and any of the
	three players you named.  Ever.    
    
>    You tell me Doug.

	I'll tell you, DrM.   My comment was on how the group of players you	
	claimed were overrated all fit into a certain category.  I found it
	predictable that you would leave out players like Walter Berry,
	Pervis Ellison, Danny Manning, et al.  who belong to another group,
	and an even more overrated one as well.

    Sweet win @ the Thrillerdome for State yesterday.  Built up a nice lead
    and held on down the stretch.  Tech got solid performances from
    Anderson and Mackey ....  and that's it.  Nobody else stepped up their
    game yesterday, and when that happens Tech will always be on trouble,
    no matter how great their PG.
    
    BTW, the State delay game (i.e. 4 Corners) to run down the clock in the
    last minute was truly a thing of beauty, but me thinks Buzz is given
    away secrets!  :^(
    
    
    - ACC Chris  

>Tech got solid performances from Anderson and Mackey ....  and that's it.

You really thought Anderson was solid?   9 for 22 from the field, 5 assists,
10 boards.

That's mediocre to me {'cept the boards}.... and following the great game he
had against Duke, he shot 6 for 20 against Maryland... making hime 15/42 {36%}
for the past two games.    I asked before, if he shoots <45% in college, what
will he shoot in the pros?

And why doesn't the best point guard ever lead his team in assists most games?
Barry has led the past two.. with only 7 and 6.

> You really thought Anderson was solid?   9 for 22 from the field, 5 assists,
> 10 boards.

    Yes, I'd call that solid.  His poor shooting and low assist totals are,
    IMHO, a direct reflection of his poor supporting cast.  (At least in
    yesterdays game...)
    
> I asked before, if he shoots <45% in college, what will he shoot in the pros?

    Difficult question to answer because it depends where he ends up.  If
    the Lakers draft him I suspect he'll be 50% or better and probably win
    rookie-of-the-year honors.  If the Timberwolves git him, well ....
    
    
> And why doesn't the best point guard ever lead his team in assists most games?
    
    That's_a easy one.  Anderson passing the ball to Tech's spastic bunch
    doesn't generate a hoop as often as it should, whereas Barry's assists
    are probably a reflection of him passing it to Kenny.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re .197
    
    Nah Doug. Ellison was never expected to be the second coming except in
    the eyes of Bill Russell, and his GM career was rather short-lived.
    Manning had a serious Bernard King -type knee injury. Seeing that it
    took a dedicated vet like King, three years to return to his regal form
    (of which I will always been in respect and awe of), to expect a rookie
    like Manning to be at All-Star level within a 18 moths is silly.
    
    The jury is still out.
    
    As for Walter Berry ? Most scouts saw him as a basket case from day
    one. And I didn't see the media calling him the next Elgin Baylor,
    thank God.
    
    So gimme that last dollar of yours.
    
    Doc

    Strange as it may seem, DocZ(ero) seems to have hit on something here.
    Namely, the covert stereotyping by the mass media.
    
    Dean touched on this recently by blasting the media as proclaiming Eric
    Montross "the next Bill Walton".  Why Bill Walton?  Simple.  He's
    white.  Zillions of other examples could be raised (every white boxer
    is 'The Great White Hope', white hoopsters are 'heady', black ones
    'athletic', etc, etc.)
    
    A bad trend.  Very bad.  But hey, whadaya expect oughtof a media is
    wholey self-serving and barren of moral fiber?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    A bad trend.  Very bad.  But hey, whadaya expect oughtof a media is
>    wholey self-serving and barren of moral fiber?
    
    But if a Tarhole alum were in a position to hire, I'm sure Dean would
    do a 180 on that opinion "for the sake of a young man's future."
    
    Just a thought.
    

    What a week!
    
    	Last Sat.  Ga. Tech at Tech    a win...
    	2 games back to back with Tar heels...hopefully a split
    	Then another Sat game...
    
    Looking for a 3 win week!
    
    B.A.

    re: .203
    
    I fail to see the relevance of your observation ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Pretty simple, Soup ...
    
    You blast the media for calling Montross a Walton-clone but Dan'l
    surmises that you'd change your tune pretty darn fast if a paper or a
    tube station run by a UNC grad hired one of the ex-Heels.  Then it
    would all be so glorious and righteous and morally firm, right ???
    
    Actually, I would blast the media, too, for this one.  Montross can
    sniff Walton's jock if he feels so inclined but that's about as close
    as deserves to be compared to the deadhead redhead on the court.
    
    Oh, and by the way, JR Reid *IS* getting college credit towards his
    degree for his 10-minute pre-game morning radio show on WRFX in
    Charlotte.  Wish I had a such a cushy path to get those last few credit
    hours
    
    Bob Hunt

    Simple?  I suppose, but considering you're making *assumptions* about
    completely *non-related* issues, I'd say my confusion is justified.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    � I'd say my confusion is justified.
    
 Uh, yeah, that's your basic "ten-four" there, Soup.   We haven't doubted
 that for a l-o-n-g time.
    
 I have to admit ... sometimes it really is *embarassing* to drive these
 Mack truck replies through the giant, yawning, w i d e open, gaping holes
 you leave.   But we do get over it quickly enough, praise the Lord.  
 
 And pass the ammunition ...
 
 Bob Hunt

    >I'd say my confusion is justified.
    
    I'd say it's pathological, and that moral considerations such as 
    justice don't apply to this mental state afflicting you.
    
    And would you git off this media kick and quit tonguing Midnight's
    glistening feet long enough to realize that the media encourage 
    such mindless mistrust in them for the purpose of engendering the
    "central lie" about their alleged manipulation such that the REAL
    manipulation that they do actually gets done!  Capiche?
    
    Example: For the first time in the history of man a free people are
    angrily demanding more censorship.  In a like manner *you're* in 
    here trotting around conspiracy theories about how the Montross-
    Walton comparison is some racial conspiracy meant only to embarrass
    poor Smif'!
    
    What next?  And, no, your confusion is not justifiable at all.
    
    Big10 Tom

> I'd say it's pathological, and that moral considerations such as 
> justice don't apply to this mental state afflicting you.

George Orwell would shudder in disbelief if he read the last few notes
in here.  I offer an objective analysis which is dealt with by commentary
completely unrelated to the issue at hand.  Ultimately judgement is
issued against me by the vocal minority, with the implication being I'm
not mentally fit!  What's next, a rat cage over my haid?!

    
> Example: For the first time in the history of man a free people are
> angrily demanding more censorship.  

Typically, your 'Example' has absolutely nothing to do with the issue
at hand.  Course I suppose I'll be chastised for pointing this out.
:^(


> In a like manner *you're* in here trotting around conspiracy theories 
> about how the Montross-Walton comparison is some racial conspiracy meant 
> only to embarrass poor Smif'!

My objection to the Montross-Walton comparison has absolutely ZERO to
do with embarassment for Dean.  Heck, as Eric himself pointed out during
his decision-announcing press conference, the man's 10/17 in placing
big guys in the pros!  Nothing to be embarrased about there.

No, my objection stems for pure altruism.  I simply don't like seeing
this kind of ugly stereotyping go unchecked by the self-serving media.

    
> What next?  

More stick-to-the-facts, no-nonsense, objective SPORTS analysis, despite
the persecution I'll undoubtedly face.

Go Tar Heels,

- ACC Chris

    Tonight in the ACC:
    
    UNC @ NC State	In what's gotta be a first in ACC history,
    			2 teams will face each other on successive nights.
    			This has gotta be considered a MUST win for State,
    			since they figure to be more worn down than
    			Carolina tomorrow night and will be on the road
    			to boot.
    
    			State is coming off an impressive road win at Tech.
    			Meanwhile Carolina has had 6 days off.  
    
    			Keys to the game are pretty simple.  State
    			absolutely must have a hot Rodney Monroe.  This
    			might be a given the way he's playing right now.
    			Also they must steer clear of foul trouble.
    			
    			I'd look for Carolina to really concentrate on
    			pounding the ball inside tonight, something we
    			failed to do in the 2nd half against Tech.  We'll
    			throw everybody and the kitchen sink at Monroe,
    			including a possible junk defense.  (Used one
    			against Tech the other night.)
    
    Maryland @ Clemson	This may be the Tigers last chance for an ACC win.
    			It will certainly be the last time they'll be 
    			favored to win.  Both teams are out of the ACC
    			race.
    
    
    - ACC Chris	

Tar Heels went down to the lesser-talented Wolfpack at NC State last night.
Dean was in rare form last night... attempting to make every call for the
refs, coming out onto the floor, junping up and down, making all sorts of
pantomime hand gestures related to every infraction he thought he saw.

NC State's 1991 version of Lethal Weapon III {Corchiani, Monroe, and 
Gugliotta} took care of business.  If those three stay out of foul trouble, 
State can play with anyone....  It will be a crying shame when Kenny 
Anderson is named starting point guard on the all-ACC team... because
Corchiani comes to play every night, unlike Kenny.   Kenny may end up
a better NBA player, but I'll watch Corchiani play any time.

Montross was a non-entity again.   4 points and 4 boards.

    Congrats to State for an impressive win.  Carolina made a nice charge
    at the end but the Pack played with grit and hung on.
    
    I wonder if Dean is second guessing himself this morning for playing
    the Blue Team in the first half.  They really cost us.  I'll be
    surprised if they see action tonight.
    
    Speaking of tonight, Carolina has to view this as a must win.  State
    has the pressure off of them - they can play loose and relaxed,
    although it's hard to imagine them playing any better than they did
    last night.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 What da heil was that gold thingy on Dean's label? Why they didn't give
 him a T there at the end I'll never know? Only saw bits and pieces too
 bad I always enjoy a_excellent loss......

 mike

> What da heil was that gold thingy on Dean's label? 

Apparently Dean believes a large yellow ribbon on his lapel might draw
attention away from his nose.   :-)    It was oversized, wasn't it {the ribbon}

>Why they didn't give him a T there at the end I'll never know?

He was begging the refs to call a T on the NC State fans for throwing stuff
on the floor {done because they assumed the game was over}.   People can 
say what they will about Bob Knight, but Dean works the officials harder and
more often than Knight ever does... and he does it in a more whiny way.

> Only saw bits and pieces to  bad I always enjoy a_excellent loss......

Not just a_excellent loss, a_excellent game.   Rodney Monroe will be a great
NBA guard.  

    My guess is that gold thingy was war-related.  
    
    Dean works the officials hard, like any other coach.  Les Robinson was
    yaking away too, not to mention Corchiani.  ('Aw, Mister Refewee, dat
    bad guy is holding my shirt.  Sniff, sniff, sniff.')
    
    The refs probably wouldn't have called a T on the State crowd even if
    they threw a steel girder onto the floor, given the horror show at the
    Duke @ Tech game.  (In you missed it the ref made a horrendous call
    against Tech, causing 1 penny to be thrown onto the floor at the
    Thrillerdome, whereupon the ref issued a Technical on the crowd.  No
    warning, no nothing.  Heck, it was probably a Dukie who threw it!)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I was embarrassed for 'Snuffy last nite, all that untoward nonstop
    effeminate whiney moany woany action... he was just a bitch last 
    night.  If Michael Spinks ever makes a comeback I nominate Smif'
    to sign on in place of Butch Lewis as manager, of course ol' 'Snuff
    will have to drop a few pounds to pull off going shirtless with 
    erect nipples under the tight-cut gold lame jacket, but he cain do
    it.
    
    Also, what's with the overwrought crap about blue team blah blah
    blah.  He kept bringing in Montross stone-cold at big moments and
    the kid never seemed to find his rhythm.  Substituting a lot is ok
    but NEVER when it's unrelated to on-court performance.  Also evident
    after about the 5th straight successful foul shot that the Star Heels
    coulda won had they only exploited all those blue chip outside shooters
    on this so very very deep squad.
    
    Corchiani is one a the funnest players in the country to watch.  He 
    could indeed be better than Kenny right now.  But this Gugliotti is
    their most talented guy, IMNSHO.  Along with Monroe this is NOT a team
    devastated by Snaggletooth's scandal.  They may not be super deep like
    the always-loaded Star Heels, but those three are better than the top
    3 of, say, Ohio State or Indiana.  
    
    Whoever draws NC Skate in the tourney is unlucky.  
    
    Big10 Tom  

    > this is NOT a team devastated by Snaggletooth's scandel
    
    Correct for this year.  But picture for a moment this same NC State
    squad next year minus both Monroe and Corchiani.  They got zip for
    recruits last year and this year.
    
    Gugliotta might wanna consider heading to NBA land a little early ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>  But picture for a moment this same NC State
>    squad next year minus both Monroe and Corchiani.  They got zip for
>    recruits last year and this year.
    
    You mean like UNC this year?  I'd venture to say that the nobodies NC
    State gets for next year would be able to post similar numbers as
    Dean's Fab Five...if they don't run. 8-)
    
    	--dan'l
    

Good game, but I have to admit, I think Snuffy Smif is losing it.
It's like any more he is trying his darnedest to find a way to lose
(sometimes the team wins in spite of his efforts).
Same with John `ah cain coach de O-lympics' Thompson.

If you combined the two of them, I don't think you could come up with
one competent coach anymore.

Mike JN

    	YES! YES! YES!  What a win! The Pac going away! :*)

    	Now they cain go into the Dumb dome and play decent ball, not have
    to worry about getting a (2nd) win in a week's time!

    	As far as the recruit's are concerned, State may not have a top 20
    year, but it's what you do with what you got that counts! ASK DEAN!

    Go Pack!

    B.A.

    If anybody's tired tonight it *better* be the Pack.
    
    And furthermore, if UNC drops this game tonight my wife better hide the
    rope, sharp objects, strong medicine, and ladders, cause I will clearly
    not be a happy fan.
    
    :^(
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    .226�    If anybody's tired tonight it *better* be the Pack.
    
    	Guess you were right Chris...the heels put it on the Pack tonight!
    
    	I think the score was 92-70..or something along those lines..Hey!
    I'll take a split with them!
    
    B.A.

    That sound you may have heard around 9pm EST was the collective sigh of
    relief from me and Dean.  It wasn't pretty, but it was a win we simply
    had to have.
    
    No rest for the weary though, as Virginia eyes revenge tomorrow in
    Chapel Hill.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>                                   -< Whew. >-
>
>    That sound you may have heard around 9pm EST was the collective sigh of
>    relief from me and Dean. 
    
    Who was on top?
    

    re: .-1
    
    Ew!  Joggles my mind from last nights LA Law though, where dem 2 female
    lawyers, well ... never mind.  (This is the ACC note, the equivalent of
    the Family Hour during TV's Prime Time.)
    
    
    > I think the score was 92-70..or something along those lines..Hey!
    > I'll take a split with them!
    
    Thanks for the compliment BA.  It is true that Carolina opponents are
    downright gleeful to gain a split from the Heels.  (This has been the
    case for roughly 30 years or so, BTW.)
    
    Anybody notice how quiet the DD was compared to Reynolds?  Place is
    practically a tomb.  And don't blame the good Carolina fans either. 
    Back in the Carmichael days we had as loud a building as anybody.  Now,
    thanks to the fat cat alum who've bought their way in, we barely get any
    kind of homecourt edge.  The students are up in the cheap seats, which
    is kinda backwards IMNSHO.
    
    :^(
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 �   Back in the Carmichael days we had as loud a building as anybody.  
 
 And hot, too.  I still think Dean had the thermostat turned way up in that
 little hellhole before the games.   I saw a double OT Heels-Hoos game in
 that building in January 1979 and it was a furnace.  Outside it was the
 worst blizzard in 20 years.  Inside you were sweating rivers.
 
    � Now, thanks to the fat cat alum who've bought their way in, we barely
    � get any kind of homecourt edge.  The students are up in the cheap
    � seats, which is kinda backwards IMNSHO.
 
 Yet you get all torqued over the Duke students and this is exactly how the
 seating is laid out in Cameron.   Conflict of interest, Soup ???
 
 Speaking of the Duke students, I didn't catch any clever cheers during
 last night's game but I saw them do something to distract a foul shooter
 that was absolutely incredible.
 
 You know how fans behind the basket wave and yell and hold up posters of
 naked women and all that ... not the Dukies.   I don't know how they were
 doing it but they had the alternate rows bobbing up and down real fast. 
 It was like rows 1, 3, and 5 stand up and 2, 4, and 6 sit down.  Then
 switch, then switch again, and again and again and again ...   And they
 were doing this as fast as you can imagine.  They were in perfect synch
 and they looked like a machine was doing this to them.
 
 I could not imagine any way to take a foul shot without being totally
 discombulated by that.  You almost got dizzy watching the tube.  It was
 really amazing.
 
 They truly define what a home court advantage is all about.
 
 Bob Hunt

>    Anybody notice how quiet the DD was compared to Reynolds?  Place is
>    practically a tomb.  
    
    I thought they were pretty loud for the first 10 minutes.  Took State
    right out of the game.
    
    What I did notice was that half of the seats were empty at the start of
    the game.  Was there a misprint on the tickets or is traffic that bad
    around Snuffy Center?
    
    	--dan'l

    > half of the seats were empty
    
    No misprint on the start of the game dan'l.  These fat cat alums just
    don't show up on time, and sometimes they don't show up at all!
    
    A Tar Heel alum (and season-ticket holder) wrote an editorial to this
    weeks Poop Sheet describing this.  He complains that they sit on their
    fat butts the whole game (applauding politely, perhaps), leave early,
    arrive late, and sometimes don't show up at all (and don't even bother
    to give their unused tickets away)!
    
    I think the tickets should be redistributed, and I also think it would
    serve us well to play a game or 2 a year in Carmichael.  Heck, the
    building's still there - why not?  I'd put Duke in there for sure, and
    maybe State.  (When they get good again.  They ain't gonna be good or
    even mediocre for a few years after this one ...)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    	Hey Caught how many more years before you qualify as a fat
    cat alum?     

A further example of the stranglehold the ACC has in the NC, SC region:

	Saturday's NBA All Star game will not be shown in
Greenville/Spartanburg so that local residents can see Clemson play.

    > Hey Caught how many more years before you qualify as a fat
    > cat alum?
    
    Frankly /Don I don't ever see that happening.  One could argue that
    it's an impossibiliy, given that I'm not a alumnus, but the folks we're
    talking about might not be as well.  (The only criterion that went into
    seat selection was the amount of $$$ donated. :^(  )
    
    Given your concern though, I'll be sure to watch for the signs that
    might put me on the road to 'fat cat' status:
    
    o Current salary increases by X10 (or more ...)
    o Cancel subscriptions to Carolina Blue and The Poop Sheet
    o Take the wife out to dinner instead of watching a UNC game on TV
    o Passively sit through a UNC game, showing little or no emotion
    o Pick up the newspaper and discover that (surprise!) UNC is in
      the Final 4
    
    I'm sure there are many more signs to watch for but, as I said, it's
    unlikely to ever happen, at least while Dean's still coaching.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    >The place was practically a tomb.
    
    With all the burials Reverend Smif' has supervised, I think that's
    the proper ambience.
    
    Big10 Tom

 �   o Pick up the newspaper and discover that (surprise!) UNC is in
 �     the Final 4
 
 I think we'd all collapse in shock if that happened.  Regardless of alumni
 status.
 
 The move to the Dean Dome is yet another example of where the push for the
 bucks hurts the golden goose who laid the egg in the first place.  Very
 reminiscent of the Minnesota Vikings move indoors and out of the cold. 
 They've never been the same since.
 
 And although the Heels still rack up the wins, they've lost a significant
 chunk of the mystique they had when they ruled Carmichael.
 
 As will the Celtics and Bruins whenever they move from their rat trap.
 
 Bob Hunt

Hey, Chris, maybe if you gave a large endowment to UNC, they'd make you an
honorary alum... or is there a problem with you being not well endowed?  :-)

    re: .238
    
    Agreed.  Which is why I think playing a few games a year in Carmichael
    would be a great idea.
    
    
    re: .239
    
    I couldn't give a hoot about being made a_honorary alum.  It's those
    season tix I want!  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    .235�A further example of the stranglehold the ACC has in the NC, SC region:
    .235�	Saturday's NBA All Star game will not be shown in
    .235�Greenville/Spartanburg so that local residents can see Clemson play.
    
    	You're real funny!:*)  Seems to me that the NBA All-Star game is
    Sunday, not Sat. if you have cable that is...
    
    	But, I figure with it being sold out, they will lift the blackout
    fot the norm-people with no cable. :*)
    
    	*Chris* How about the heel faithful *getting* a split with the
    Pack? They should feel so lucky that the Pack doesn't have a bench.
    
    B.A.

Isn't Saturday's game the old-timers, the 3-point contest, Jammin & Dunkin',
and Nazz'z lap sitting contest?

    One has to question the wisdom of Virginia's schedule-makers, given the
    devastation that went on in North Carolina the last 4 days.  (In
    case you missed it, the Cavs were tied for first before losing 3 games
    @ Duke, @ UNC, and @ Wake.  Seems they set this disasterous road swing
    up themselves by scheduling Notre Dame in the midst of the conference
    season.)
    
    The Cavs are now completely out of the ACC race, and you could question
    if they'll ever recover this year.  (John Crotty was hooked up to_a IV
    before the Carolina game, suffering from dehydration.)
    
    BTW, for those of you who think BobHunt is too hard on the Tar Heels,
    consider the stat Bucky Waters was kind enough to pass on Saturday. 
    Virginia has been to Chapel Hill SEVENTY times (SEVENTY-ONE now) and
    has won (hang onto yer coffee) *TWICE*.  That's 2-69 folks.
    
    (Kinda makes me feel bad for pickin' on him so much.  :^( )
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    

>    BTW, for those of you who think BobHunt is too hard on the Tar Heels,
>    consider the stat Bucky Waters was kind enough to pass on Saturday. 
>    Virginia has been to Chapel Hill SEVENTY times (SEVENTY-ONE now) and
>    has won (hang onto yer coffee) *TWICE*.  That's 2-69 folks.
    
    And Dean Smith has been to the NCAA tourny how many times?  And they've
    won once.  That's 1-gazillion folks.
    
    Of course this won't have rellevance to ACChris, or else he won't see
    the connection.
    
    	--dan'l
    

>    Of course this won't have rellevance to ACChris, or else he won't see
>    the connection.
    
    You're right on both counts actually.  It has no relevance, and there
    is no connection.
    
    But it doesn't surprise me in the least that you'd try and equate a
    battle between two (2) teams where only one win is required to the NCAA
    Tournament, where upwards of six (6) are.
    
    :^(
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re: .-1
    
    BTW, even if I *DID* use dan'l's incredibly bogus metric, Dean's still
    better!
    
    Haw haw haw!!!!!!!!111111
    
    					W	L	PCT
    				       ---     ---      ---
    UNC vs. NCAA Tournament             1       29      .033
    UVa vs. UNC				2       69	.028
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 It just makes each Wahoo win against the Heels that much sweeter and it
 makes each and every Heels loss that much tastier.
    
 You ought to know better, Soup.  Taunting guarantees revenge, a dish which
 tastes so much better with age.
    
 Maybe the Heels and the Hoos will meet again in the ACC Tournament in the
 Charlotte Coliseum where North Carolina is a whopping 0-1 lifetime against
 Virginia.
    
 Bob Hunt

    Slow down thare Ketch.  I am NOT, repeat, NOT, doing any taunting. 
    That would be unsporting, and Dean clearly would not be pleased.
    (Plus it's none-to-smart, given the potential scenario you point out.)
    
    No, my point (before being side-tracked by dan'l's bad comments) were
    simply that I think UVa blew it schedule-wise, and I hope it doesn't
    take the steam completely out of this team.  They've got a nice bunch,
    but when you know ahead of time you've got a thin bench I just can't
    see the logic behind knowingly scheduling 3 *TOUGH* ACC road games in 4
    days.
    
    Maybe a sign of Jones' inexperience?  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

�    Virginia has been to Chapel Hill SEVENTY times (SEVENTY-ONE now) and
�    has won (hang onto yer coffee) *TWICE*.  That's 2-69 folks.
�    
�    (Kinda makes me feel bad for pickin' on him so much.  :^( )
�    
�    BTW, even if I *DID* use dan'l's incredibly bogus metric, Dean's still
�    better!
�    
�    Haw haw haw!!!!!!!!111111
�    
�    					W	L	PCT
�    				       ---     ---      ---
�    UNC vs. NCAA Tournament             1       29      .033
�    UVa vs. UNC			 2       69	 .028
�    
�    Slow down thare Ketch.  I am NOT, repeat, NOT, doing any taunting. 
�    That would be unsporting, and Dean clearly would not be pleased.
�    (Plus it's none-to-smart, given the potential scenario you point out.)
 
 You know, Soup, I have to admit, the depths to which you insist on
 plunging yourself are truly astonishing.   Unbelievable.
 
 You don't even have the stones to admit you were rubbing it in.  That you
 would entertain even for a nanosecond that there is actually something of
 value in ol' Snuff's miserable NCAA tournament performance is enough to
 make me think you could benefit from some professional help in one of
 those de-culting centers.
 
 Incredible.  You come up with some juicy 2-69 stat, you stick out your
 baby blue tongue, you let loose with your best raspberry and then you
 claim you weren't taunting me because you would never do something the Rev
 wouldn't approve of.   Whatta riot.
 
 At least be man enough to admit that you took some glee out of rubbing
 whatever it was you wanted to rub.  And then go clean yourself up.  
 Either that or lock the bathroom door behind you nexted time you want to
 enjoy yourself like this.
 
 As I said before, Mr. Knorr, revenge is a dish best saved for later.   You
 will rue the day you took this plunge.  The bigger they are, the harder
 they fall.  This is especially true for "flagships".
 
 Bob Hunt

> You come up with some juicy 2-69 stat, you stick out your baby blue tongue, 
> you let loose with your best raspberry and then you claim you weren't 
> taunting me because you would never do something the Rev
> wouldn't approve of.

You may have a point here Ketch.  Maybe I *was* rubbing it in.  Course
nobody ever picks on poor ACC Chris when the Heels drop one.  Oh no!

Nevertheless this is a feeble excuse at best and Dean would not
condone such behavior.  Please forget that I ever brought up that 
ugly 2-69 stat in the first place.

(Also delete those unsporting ACC Chris belly laughs we all here in 
 the background!)


- ACC Chris

    The other night the baby blue sportscasters referred to the Heels' win
    over Virginia as "another win for Dean-O" ...
    
    My wife said to me ... "Who the hell is Dean-O ???"
    
    I said ... "He's Fred Flintstone's pet but you wouldn't know it around
    		here, would you ???
    
    Bob Hunt
    

Bob --

That was "stooooooopid"!

Too funny.  

Actually, Dean-O is the younger brother of that guy who picks the sports
winners, Bean-O.

Hope this helps,
'Saw

    No, Dean-O is Dean Martin...
    
    
    
    
    ...played by Ned Beatty in Rodney Dangerfield's 'Back to School' which
    is on HBO this month.  One classic flick.
    
    "Now that's what I call marine biology!"
    
    	--dan'l

    GT recruit and Kenny Anderson's replacement Travis Best of Springfield
    (Mass.) Central High had an awesome game a few days ago. He hit 8 3pt
    shots in a row in the first 4 minutes of the game enroute to a 81pt, 11
    assist, 9 rebound, 9 steal game and victory over Putnam. His coach said
    "He could have had more than 100 points, except he passed off too damn
    much". Most of his points came early as he had 48 on 17-for-21 shooting
    in the first half.
    
    I hope he can carry it over to the ACC since Anderson will be gone next
    year (even Cremins says so).
    
    Chris

    From this morning's "Charlotte Observer" ...
    
       "Senior forward Sean Tyson has been kicked off the Clemson
       basketball team after being charged with assaulting a female
       student, the university said Tuesday.
    
       Tyson allegedly grabbed Angela Celeste McAbee and repeatedly threw
       her against a brick wall at Calhoun Courts on the campus, said
       reports filed at the Clemson University Police Department.
    
       Tyson was charged with assault and battery of a high and aggravated
       nature.
    
       Tyson, a 6-7, 215-pound Baltimore native, was also charged with
       possessing a .32-caliber pistol on campus, the school said. 
       Spokeswoman Cathy Sims said the two charges were not related."
       
    Good thing this didn't happen in Chapel Hill.  Tyson might have
    *really* been punished then.  He might have gotten (horrors!) suspended
    for a whole game maybe.  Or maybe (oh, sweet Jeezus, have mercy!) the
    rest of the seniors might have given him a swirlie.
    
    Obviously, Tyson didn't purchase the King Rice "How To Slap Her Around"
    home video.   Bad move, Sean, bad move.
    
    Bob Hunt

    re-1,
    
    	The reason King got off so easy is that he didn't hit a *female*!
    
    Plus, Clemson is trying to clean up it's image...ho hum!
    
    B.A.

    Last night in the ACC:
    
    o Carolina survived Wake Forest 85-70.  (Wake has beaten UNC once since
      1982, something I can say now that we're done with them this year.)
    
      Interesting how Dean's adjusted to this team.  In the loss to State
      I reported the Blue Team really hurt us, getting outscored 9-0. 
      Since that game there's been no more Blue Team.  In the loss at home
      to Tech we needed a TO during the Jackets run from 16 down.  Dean
      opted against calling one.  Last night Wake started an identical run
      at the identical time of the game and Dean quickly went for the TO.
      
    o Unbelievably, State *almost* got beat last night by (who?) Robert
      Morris at home.  They squeezed by them by 2 points, 90-88.
    
    o Virginia downed (who?) Fairfield 84-52.  At one point the score was 
      45-15.  Me thinks there was some serious wound-licking going on
      in this one.
    
    o Finally, in a mild upset, Maryland topped Georgia Tech 96-93, putting
      Tech's NCAA bid seriously in question. Tech is now 13-9.  They now 
      face Arizona on the road and then Virginia on the road.  Hello 13-11.
      
    
    - ACC Chris

    		-------------------------------------
    		Team			Conf	All
    		-------------------------------------
    		DUKE			8-2	22-4
    		UNC			7-3	18-4
    		NC STATE		6-4	14-7
    		VIRGINIA		5-5	18-7
    		WAKE FOREST		5-5	14-8
    		GEORGIA TECH		5-6	13-9
    		MARYLAND		3-7	13-10
    		CLEMSON			1-8	10-12
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

>    o Unbelievably, State *almost* got beat last night by (who?) Robert
>      Morris at home.  They squeezed by them by 2 points, 90-88.

Chris, this is typical for State. They usually can beat almost anyone and
lose to almost anyone.

TTom

    Robert Morris is a small business college in Coraopolis, PA (near the
    Greater Pittsburgh International Airport).  I almost went there to get
    an MBA, but then got accepted to CMU.
    
    They play in the ECAC Metro Conference (which I think has been renamed
    recently) which includes teams such as Marist and St. Francis (PA). 
    These teams have been giant killers in the past and have a
    non-too-shabby track record in the NCAAs, if I do recall, as far as
    small colleges go.
    
    	--dan'l
    
    PS: Robert Morris named its new basketball facility after its current
    president...or should I say, the current president named it after
    himself...the Charles L. Sewell Center.  Maybe they'd be better off
    playing some other self-righteous-minded ACC school, eh?

    Only diff dan'l is dat Dean didn't want da DD named Dean.  
    
    In fact, he fought it tooth and nail before finally resigning himself to
    the fact that they (rich and powerful fat-cat alum's) were gonna
    do it anyways ...
    
    BTW, another classic example of our great season-ticket holding fans
    lasted night.  Fox makes steal in 2nd half and goes in for a dyn-o-mite
    slam-bam-jam breakaway dunk.  ESPN flashes to the lower-level crowd,
    where all the doners sit, and they're firmly planted in their seats
    whilst clapping somewhat enthusiastically.  Ugh.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

I was  in a big hurry this morning, but I thought I saw something about
a team beating Davidson(?) 80something to 39?!?!?

What was that all about?

Mike JN

Does Wesleyan play hoops?????

    Any stats on Kenny Anderson last night?   

�    Only diff dan'l is dat Dean didn't want da DD named Dean.  
    
 Yet it still happened.  Why is that everything bad that happens to the guy
 is either someone else's fault or unfair or misunderstood ???
    
 And everything good is cloaked in an aura of "Awshucks, not lil' ol' me"
 humility ???
    
 Dean Smith gets stopped for speeding in C'ville and it was the cop's
 fault.  Dean Smith wins one title in 30 years and it's the refs'fault or
 the other team was better but Dean's a better coach blah blah blah ...
    
 But the guy gets his own building named after him and it's not idol
 worship.  Heaven forbid.  No, it's "he really didn't want them to do that
 so it's not his fault".
 
 Yeah, I know you're going to tell me he really really really didn't want
 them to do it but the fact is they did it.  He could have threatened to
 resign if they insisted but he knew he'd never find fans who would worship
 him so much in return for relatively so little.
 
 I've never seen a sports figure command so much adoration in return for so
 much disappointment.  Masochism doesn't even begin to describe what Heels'
 fan go through to fall all over themselves kissing his underachieving
 feet.
   
 Bob Hunt

Georgia Tech beat Arizona yesterday 62-56 despite a (another?) terrible
shooting game by Kenny Anderson, who was 6-21 from the floor.   

Over the weekend, Duke lost at Wake Forest, thus setting up a tie between 
the Blue Devils and the Tar Heels for first place.

Also, State beat UConn, 60-59, over the weekend as Rodney Monroe passed
David Thompson as the all-time State scorer. 

Bob Hunt, someone ought to help your fellow Wahoo Dan Bonner (I think
that's his name; I'm sure he's an ex-Hoo). He broadcast the Wake game and
said how important it was for the winner of the Duke-No Carolina game
because they would win the league championship and get the tournament
bye. How about oh-for-2, Dan. First of all, in an issue that seems to
come up every year, the winner of the tournament is the league
championship. Secondly, there are 8 teams. Now how does that bye work
again?

Wake, State and Ga Tech all helped themselves out for the NCAA
tournament. Getting 6 teams into the tourney now seems a real
possibility.

TTom

UConn shot HORRIFICALLY from the floor. I didn't watch the game, but
I saw highlights on the news at 6pm....

Oh well.....8^)

'Saw

    Wake Forest looked great Saturday.  They never let Duke get up although
    it was close the whole way.  If they get hot for a weekend in March,
    they could...gasp...win the ACC tourney.  However, they do seem to be
    nothing more than homers at this point.  We shall see.
    
    	--dan'l

    re: .270 (TTom)
    
    Maryland is ineligible for the ACC Tournament this year, so the winner
    of the regular season will receive a bye in the 1st round of the
    tourney.
    
    As to his other point, all the coaches will concede that the regular
    season championship is far more meaningful than winning the ACC
    Tournament.  The league recognizes *both* the league champion and
    tournament champion.  (A proposal I believe Jimmy V championed.)
    The fact that the league still choses to name the tourney winner the
    league champion is more a reflection of nostalgia.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    *HUGE* weekend in the ACC - absolutely **HUGE**.
    
    o Carolina breezes past Maryland, closing within 1/2 game of the Nerds
    
    o Wake comes up BIG against the Devils, thus forcing a tie for the
      league lead.  A showdown on the last day of the season @ Chapel
      Hill looms!
    
    o Virginia overcomes a Clemson slow-down game to escape with a "W".
      Clemson's gonna be downright no fun to play again this year if
      Cliff Ellis keeps this up.  (He will.)
    
    o Tech came away with an unlikely yet crucial non-conference win,
      keeping their NCAA Tournament hopes solidly in tact.  Techies all
      across Atlanta who couldn't stand to watch the punishment were
      shocked and amazed when they flipped on their 6 o'clock news, I'll
      tell ya...
    
    o NC State solidified their NCAA Tourney bid, knocking off UConn @
      Connecticut.  This is a game I simply cannot figure.  State shot
      absolutely horribly from the floor.  We're talking 4/24 from 3-point
      territory; 22/72 for the game!  Connecticut should feel thoroughly
      embarassed by this one ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    o NC State solidified their NCAA Tourney bid, knocking off UConn @
>      Connecticut.  This is a game I simply cannot figure.  State shot
>      absolutely horribly from the floor.  We're talking 4/24 from 3-point
>      territory; 22/72 for the game!  Connecticut should feel thoroughly
>      embarassed by this one ...

Nah!
    
It was a seesaw affair, from what I heard on the news.  I didn't see the
game, but from what I understand UCONN could simply not put them away.
The last second shot bounced out (CLANG!).... UCONN shot terribly also!
Chris Smith shot as badly as I do....

Nobody was listening to me when early on I said this is a rebuilding
year for Connecticut - a reality check after the Dream Season....

Oh well,
'Saw

>    o NC State solidified their NCAA Tourney bid, knocking off UConn @
>      Connecticut.  This is a game I simply cannot figure.  State shot
>      absolutely horribly from the floor.  We're talking 4/24 from 3-point
>      territory; 22/72 for the game!  Connecticut should feel thoroughly
>      embarassed by this one ...
    
    Are you kidding, Chris?  Thoroughly embarassed because a last second
    shot or tip in didn't fall?  Would you be saying the same thing if it
    were UNC in the same scenario...UNC in the DeanDome and the ball rolls
    around the rim and just doesn't go down?  
    
    Thoroughly embarassed.  If anyone knows the meaning of that phrase, it
    should be you after Mr. Hunt raked you over the coals about your looks-
    like-a-smells-like-a-must-be-a hired gun philosphy.
    
    You are consistently entertaining, however. 8-)
    
    	--dan'l

    Sorry dan'l but I cain't agree.  If State's proven anything this year
    it's that:
    
    a) They can beat *ANYBODY* when they shoot well
    
    and
    
    b) They can lose to *ANYBODY* when they don't shoot well
    
    If you're a good team (Top 30, say) and you're at home and you're
    playing State and they shoot lousy and you lose, ...
    
    you should be embarrassed.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Congrats to the Wolfpack on a giant road win against Connecticut.
    Corch, Rodney, Gugliotti... this is a_easy-to-like squad, a team
    with oodles of character.  Could it be that they found themselves
    in overcoming the Star Heels last week? 
    
    The Wolfpack is a bad draw for whomever gets them in the Tourney.
    Best pair of guards in the country, and in the Tourney floor leadership,
    ball handling, and outside shooting are *tres* important.
    
    Too bad the Almost Close doesn't have a conference championship season.
    If they did, it'd be interesting to see who'd win it.
    
    Big10 Tom
                                                         

   � Too bad the Almost Close doesn't have a conference championship season.
   � If they did, it'd be interesting to see who'd win it.
    
    Yep, now that the Buckeyes have essentially ended the Big Ten's season,
    it's no small wonder you're a_scannin' the dial a_lookin' for sumpthin'
    else to cheer for.
    
    Big Ten	:== Is That All There Is ???
    ACC 	:== Mmm, Mmm, Good To The Last Drop
    
    Bob Hunt

    The Pack could be a horrible draw in the NCAA's, or a lucky one.
    If I were a good team I wouldn't want to face them.  But if I
    were a so-so one, State is solid upset material.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    	I think Robinson should get C/O/Y award(of course I'm partial)for
    getting the Wolfpack back into the swing of things in the ACC. He's
    taken what many have tab a two man team and positioned themselves a
    chance to win the regular season. At least they're doing it
    legitimately!  Way to go Les!

    B.A.

ACC Coach of Year ratings (IMO):

	1. Odoms, Wake Forest - at least State had 2 stars.
	2. Robinson, State - agree with .281.
	3. Jeff Jones, Va - only problem was they got too good too soon.

TTOM

    re: .-1
    
    Jeff Jones, COY?  You gotta be kidding.  He's got talent, and plenty of
    it.  Right now the Cav's are barely hanging over .500 in the league. 
    No way, Jose.  
    
    Robinson inherited talent to be sure, but to have them contending for
    the league race at this late stage of the year with no bench whatsoever
    is a fine accomplishment.  If they hang in and finish 3rd, he'd get my
    vote.  Dave Odom should get alot of votes too, and if Wake continues
    there strong showing, could even win it.
    
    
    Right now the regular season battle shapes up as follows:
    
    UNC		8 - 3 (Clemson,@Tech,Duke)
    DUKE	8 - 3 (State,Clemson,@UNC)
    STATE	6 - 4 (@Duke,UVa,Maryland,Wake Forest)
    
    Outlook:
    
    State	They must come away with a win Wednesday @ Durham, and
    		I can't say I'm optimistic.  If they win that one they're
    		looking at 3 straight home games, but is this team
    		consistent enough to win 'em all?  (no)
    
    		Prediction:	8-6
    
    Duke	The Nerds control their own destiny, with games remaining
    		against State and Carolina.  Win 'em both and they've got
    		the Title.  Winning @ Chapel Hill will be no easy chore
    		however.
    
    		Prediction:	10-4
    
    UNC		Carolina's trip to Atlanta has all the earmarks of a
    		disaster.  Tech will be playing for an NCAA berth; UNC
    		will be looking ahead to Duke; winning in the Thrillerdome
    		is very tough.  Hopefully they'll recover to beat the
    		Nerds in the biggest game of the year at home.
    
    		Prediction:	10-4
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    

Chris, I agree with some of your predictions. If State goes 2-2 down the
stretch, I'll be glad. I can't see them winning at Duke. Beating both UVa
and Wake at home would be a lot to be thankful for. Watch them win all 3
and lose to Maryland :-(.

I notice that you buried your prediction of No Carolina over Duke in the
Dome. The Heels should win this one, as Duke hasn't showed that much on
the road.

I don't remember Va being top 15 in the preseason. But they've been there
during the season, hence the rating for Jones. They came in with Stith
and a bunch of other players. When they're on, they can go very far.
(e.g., early Duke blowout). Biggest disappointment has to be losing to
King Rice and No Carolina at home.

TTom

 I'm very pleased with Jones and the Wahoos so far.  They've got 19 wins
 now and they're still more than 2 weeks away from the ACC tournament. 
 Holland used to go into the tournament needing 1 or 2 wins to get to 20
 and then sweat out an at-large berth to the dance.
 
 Biggest disappointment was losing in double overtime to Carolina in
 Charlottesville.  Second disappointment was not even bothering to show up
 to play Ga Tech in Atlanta.   The Hoos finish with Ga Tech and Maryland at
 home and NC State on the road.  They should finish 9-5 if they play well
 in Raleigh.  8-6 otherwise.
 
 Of course, Soup will now jump in and tell us that Jones goofed in
 scheduling three straight losing road games along Tobacco Road.  This, of
 course, from the man whose team postponed its game the night the war broke
 out and then rescheduled it for back-to-back meetings.  Another brilliant
 move by Snuff ... how to take a most probable sweep of NC State and turn
 it into a guaranteed split.   All of which I'm sure sent the Baby Blue
 faithful into orgasmic hysterics.
 
 No doubt Les Robinson was grateful for the gift.
 
 Bob Hunt

    re: scheduling
    
    Deano had no control over either the cancellation or the rescheduling. 
    I don't know if Jones made the decision to schedule Notre Dame (that
    late decision is what necessitated the 'North Carolina Nightmare' trip)
    or not, but whoeever did oughta think that strategy over carefully next
    time around.
    
    I think Jones has done a solid job with the 19 wins. Realistically 
    though I'd look for an 8-6 finish (Tech,@State,Maryland) and, with 
    their high talent level, I don't think that's CoY material.  Of course
    his real mark won't be felt for several years, when his impact on
    recruiting is felt.  So far in the campaign, Virginia has one of *the*
    top recruiting classes in the USA, which is a far better sign for
    UVa hoops than their current solid record, IMO.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

Found this great satire of Nostradamus and his predictions in SOAPBOX 
(reprinted by permission). The third anti-christ is supposed to be
wearing a Blue Turban. Have you ever seen Dean Smith and Saddam
together.... 

TTom

                <<< PEAR::DUA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SOAPBOX.NOTE;3 >>>
                                  -< Soapbox >-
================================================================================
Note 62.4052                       Iraq/Kuwait                      4052 of 4055
UECKER::CHAKMAKJIAN "Shadow Nakahar of Erebouni"     21 lines  18-FEB-1991 15:41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the year 2 mill and 3
The eagle and the BEER side by side will be
and the eagle will have a cold one you see
so that all can live in peace and drink one round free

The Blue Turbaned one will lie in the sand
His soul bombed out out 8 years before to never never land.
His tanks in a shambles, his cannons unmanned
his delusions of granduers, all of them canned

So Saddam be nimble, Gorby be quick
The trickery you design just makes nosty sick
On Fahd On Assad On Bush, Major and Mubarak
Get rid of this menace before another oil slick

Armendamus

    
    Who's responsible for North Carolina scheduling The Citadel this late
    in the season?  I'm outraged!  Have they no decency?  Have they no
    concern for quality?
    
    Hey, guys, if we're resorting to scheduling arguments now, I'd say some
    serious over-analysis is taking place.  I mean, schedules may not be
    ideal, but you've still got to play 'em all to win.  This is
    basketball, not football...
    
    glenn
     

    What Glenn is ranting about is UNC's humiliation of The Citadel last
    night, 118-50.  At one point, the score was 100-37.
    
    Real class act.  Give new meaning to the Tarhole knickname.
    
    Some credit to UNC, though: this thrashing marked their 21st straight
    20-win season...an NCAA record.  Mighty impressive regardless of how
    often they choke in the tourney.  
    
    	--dan'l

    118-50!  Heh heh.  
    
    Hey, The Citadel probablee got a nice cash bonus for this thrashing, so
    they've got nothing to complain about.
    
    Dean played the scrubs for most of this one.  The last 5 guys on our
    bench could've beaten this team, so there wasn't much else that
    could've been done, short of going 4C at the 2 minute mark of this
    ugly, ugly affair.
    
    For the record though, there were only 2 guaranteed wins on our
    schedule (Cornell & Citadel), which is an infinitesimally small number
    compared to most of our Division 1 bretheren.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    .289�    Some credit to UNC, though: this thrashing marked their 21st straight
    .289�    20-win season...an NCAA record.  Mighty impressive regardless of how
    
    	That's why they scheduled the Bulldogs! A fer Sere win!
    
    B.A.

    Add this one to your 'UVa 90-91 Lowlights' film Ketch.  The Cavs are
    just not shooting the basketball well right now.  They missed a slew of
    shots they normally make.  
    
    Credit Tech with a solid performance (Kenny Anderson had 33 (14-26) and
    numerous rebounds and steals), but I think Virginia is really lacking
    confidence right now.
    
    On the bright side though, Anthony Oliver returned and played quite a
    bit (he looked a tad on the heavy side to me) if not very well, and
    there's still time to recover that confidence that was lost somewhere
    around Durham, Chapel Hill, and Winston-Salem.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

FWIW, Ga Tech won 73-60.

In the USA Today power ratings, the ACC has 6 schools in the top 25: 
No Carolina (2), Duke (6), Virginia (16), Ga Tech (17), Wake (22) and
State (25).

If only they would quit beating themselves I'd feel better about our
chances of getting all 6 into the NCAAs.

TTom

>                -< We'll have 6 TTom.  Take it to the bank... >-

We had a chance; but now, it looks real shaky ;-)


TTom

    Blech.  *I* could shoot better than that.
    
    The Hoos just do not match up well against Ga Tech.   No excuses for a
    13-point loss at home in late February.
    
    I sincerely hope the Hoos have seen the last of Georgia Tech this
    school year.  After their football team popped the Hoos fantasy bubble
    and following this hoops sweep, I ain't sending no Christmas cards down
    to Hot Lanta.
    
    Bob Hunt

    Big win for Tech, should insure another NCAA berth. I think Tech has
    proven in the last couple of games that they can not only play in the
    tournament, but go far. Unfortunately, they showed in Maryland that
    they are capable of losing in the first round. It was nice to get a
    decent game from Geiger. His performance is pivotal to Tech's success.
    
    Mr Hunt- Don't forget the ACC tournament game between Tech and UVa last
    year as you commiserate UVa's fate at Tech's good fortune :^)
    
    Chris
    

 Shut up, Reeve.  Just shut up.
 
 Actually, now that Ga Tech holds both the ACC grid and hoops titles, they
 have a very legitimate claim to the ACC's "flagship program" honor.
 
 Of course, Carolina fans will have a collective stroke contemplating just
 how far they've fallen compared to this upstart program from The Peachtree
 State.
 
 Bob Hunt

    
    	NCAA> State and Tech on the bubble...State could really help
    themselves tonight with a win against Duke! Hope for the best, fear the
    worst..
    
    B.A.

    Tech's baseball team was #1 in one of the polls last week (now #5), and
    the golf team was #1 in the country in the last poll I saw (2-3 weeks
    ago). Take heart Mr Hunt, Virginia's women's hoop team is #1!
    
    Chris

Duke beat State last night, 72-65. The game was a series of Duke getting
ahead by 8 or so points and State catching up.

Duke has a 1/2 game lead on No Carolina for the current league standings.

TTom

    *If* Tech were to win the ACC Championship (long odds, but they're
    capable) they'd wear the crown of hoops and football champion in the
    same season.  Anybody know the last time that happened?
    
    Carolina has snuck up to #6 in the country and should advance a spot
    given the Syracuse loss and assuming they can beat Clemson Saturday.
    It's conceivable they could get a #1 seed in a regional, but I'd say
    the odds are against it.  It would probably require winning the rest
    of our regular season games *and* the ACC Tourney.  We might pull of
    one or the other, but both would be asking an awful lot.
    
    
    - ACC Chris 

In yesterday's USA Today they had 3 writers predict the seedings.
Unanimously, they chose UNLV for the West, Ohio St for the Midwest,
Arkansas for the Southeast and by a majority of 2-1 No Carolina for the
East (Indiana got 1 vote).

Personally, I'd like to see the Heels seeded #1 so it'll be very clear
when they choke.

TTom

    re: .-1
    
    Last I checked TTom the writers don't seed the teams.  And until
    that Duke AD gets off the NCAA selection committee Carolina will
    continue to get the short end of the seeding stick.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    The last team to win the ACC football and basketball championships in the
    same season was Georgia Tech last year (1990). They beat Duke for the
    hoops title in March and clinched the football title with a win over
    Maryland in November. The last team to do it BEFORE Tech was Maryland
    in 1982 (I think). Incidentally, Bobby Ross coached both football
    teams.
    
    How quickly they forget! And you an Atlanta resident to boot!
    
    Chris

    Uh uh Chris.  I'm talking about during the same *academic* season, not
    the same calendar season.
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Weekend schedule:

	Saturday:
		Wake at Maryland
		Virginia at State
		Clemson at No Carolina

	Sunday:
		Louisville at Ga Tech
		Duke at Arizona

TTom

    With the Huckster (tm) loss Carolina *could* move up to #4 in the polls
    next week *if* they can beat Clemson Saturday.
    
    I'm not gonna say Clemson has never won a game in Chapel Hill.  Not
    gonna say it ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Great comeback win for the Pack on Saturday against the 'Hoos. Rodney
Monroe had 30 of his 32 points in the second half: he outscored the
entire Virginia team for the half. Chris Corchianni had 8 assists to move
within 1 of tying Sherman Doulgas' career assist mark. Final score was
83-76. They're listed at 27th in the USA Today-CNN poll.

No Carolina also beat Clemson at home and moved to #4.

Duke lost in 2 OTs at Arizona and were voted to #8.

Ga Tech beat up on Louisville, 82-69. They're listed at 29th.

Meanwhile Wake lost at Maryland and won at home against the woeful
Clemson Tigers. The loss may jeopardize Wake's invitation to the NCAAs.

TTom

 Yes, the Lady Hoos are 26-1, top-ranked, and have just completed the ACC's
 first ever perfect record in conference play.  They finished 14-0 in
 conference play.   This included what a lot of people are calling the
 greatest women's college basketball game ever played ... a triple overtime
 thriller over NC State about 4 or 5 weeks ago.
 
 Their only loss was to 2nd ranked Penn State by a point on a three-point
 prayer shot at the buzzer.  This was in early January and Penn State then
 lost their only game of the year a few weeks later.  That's why Penn State
 dropped back down to No. 2.
 
 The Lady Hoos are loaded.  They've got twin sisters Heather and Heidi
 Burge and Dawn Staley.   Staley may very well be the national player of
 the year.
 
 The mens' team is a having a late-season slide in conference play.   They
 play Towson State tonight and should pick up their 20th win.  A week ago,
 people had the Hoos as a lock for the NCAA tournament.   Now they're 6-7
 in conference and they had better see next weekend's season finale against
 Maryland as a *MUST* game if they want to keep that "lock" status.
 
 Bob Hunt

Forgot to mention that Virginia is still in the Top 25 - #24. Usually,
when you're in the Top 25 at this late in the season, you're a "lock". Of
course beating Maryland and maybe winning a game in the tournament
wouldn't hurt.

Right now, IMHO, No Carolina, Duke, Virginia, State and Ga Tech are
absolutely in. Wake has the problem of being the 6th team from the
conference as well as losing on the road. Winning at State would lock
them in as would a win or 2 in the conference tourney.

TTom

    The state of North Carolina has been very, very, very, very, Very,
    VERY, **VERY** unkind of Virginia basketball this year.  Very unkind.
    A 20-point lead in the 2nd half went for naught as Rodney Monroe
    absolutely caught fire.  The man was simply unstoppable.  Truly one of
    the best individual efforts in a half of basketball in ACC history.
    
    As TTom points out the most significant game over the weekend as far as
    NCAA Tournament impact was Wake's loss @ Maryland.  They've got
    16 wins and will pick up #17 tonight against New Hampshire.  A loss
    @ State brings them to 17-10 - definite bubble material.  I'd say
    they need a 1st round win in the ACC Tourney, otherwise it's 'Hello,
    NIT.'  (First round opponent will be either State, Tech, or UVa.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    ACChris,
    
    What's with these numbers?????
    
    		Pts	Reb	Position
    JR Reid 	13.1	6.6	Center
    JR Reid	 9.5	6.4	Power Forward
    
    Didn't you claim we'd start to see the real JR when he switched to his
    natural position(power forward)?  What's the cause?  Didn't Dean teach
    him enough fundamentals to survive in the NBA?
    
    Cap

    Anybody catch halftime of the Duke @ Arizona game where they
    interviewed Harold "Baby Jordan" Miner, the USC guard.  The interview
    went something like this:
    
    Q: Harold, do you think people would know you if you played for
       a school that gets more publicity?
    
    A: Yes.  If I went to North Carolina or ... [pause] ... [pause]
       one of them other schools I'd probablee_be gettin' alot more
       attention.
    
    Commentary:		North Carolina: THE #1 college basketball program
    			in the USA.
    
    Nuf said.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

What happened inside Harold's CPU during this interview:

    
>    Q: Harold, do you think people would know you if you played for
>       a school that gets more publicity?

Init:	Call up recognition routine.  Define terms.
	Make judgement based on interrogative statement as parsed....

>    A: Yes.  If I went to North Carolina or ... [pause] ... [pause]
>       one of them other schools I'd probablee_be gettin' alot more
>       attention.

Handle_Answer:
	Read in from Schools_List first item.
	Read in from Schools_LIst second...[ALARM, ALARM - HARDWARD INTERRUPT!]

	CPU IN DANGER OF POWER SHORTAGE - LOSS OF ELECTROLYTE.  
	REPLENISH, REPLENISH.

	(Brain calls up reserve electrolytes)

	Draw conclusion.
	Finish sentence.

    

>    Commentary: North Carolina: THE #1 college basketball program
>    			in the USA.
    
    .....up until the NCAA tournament.  Actually it is a sad commentary if
    compared to the number of championship teams the Tarheels have
    produced.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.
   

    Has nothing to do with championships D-boy.  Has to do with the *first*
    program to pop into a kids brain when he thinks of big-time college
    basketball.
    
    I take this as_a compliment of the highest order.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    Three hundred plus ring-less Dean alums cain't be wrong!
    
    glenn
    

I suspect he was thinking of NC State, anyway.

That Duke game was kind of goofy, wasn't it?  Some fairly excellent
hoops, interspersed with some of the sloppiest crap I've seen in awhile.
At the end, Arizona was just pitiful from the line, and as the first
overtime was winding down, I thought Duke had it for sure. Then they
came out for the 2nd overtime, and it looked like Duke had decided to
call it a day and catch the plane. No spark whatsoever.

Mike JN

    That's only because Kentucky's on probation.  8-)
    
    And he probably didn't mention Duke because it and "them" other
    schools prefer that you have good grammar when entering.  
    
    Commentary: UNC will take anybody.
    
    	--dan'l

    >Commentary: UNC will take anybody.
    
    That especially rings true when taking into account Dean's 'whoring'
    pursuit of academic deficient Kenny Williams.
    
    Cap

    I saw the Baby Miner interview and here is how it REALLY went:
    
    
    TV Person: "Harold, do you feel that if you'd gone to one of the
    		established programs that's on television a lot, a
    		program like, say, North Carolina, that you would get
    		more publicity?"
    
    Baby:      "Sure.  But I'm happy here at SC and feel that I made 
    		the right decision."
    
    
    Commentary: 
    
    1) Television will seize every opportunity to further overhype the 
       Star Heels.
    
    2) ACCrook will, too, and he won't let the facts stand in his way.
    
    Big10 Tom	

    I have a problem.  I've been all ready and set to go and leap onto
    the North Carolina State Wolfpack bandwagon.  I like this team alot.
    But, every time I git real turned on watching Corch and Guges and
    Rod the camera pans over to that new coach and I go limp.  Main!  
    The guy's a daid ringer for 'Snuffy Smif' - minus the jiggling jowls
    and liver spots and lizard-like slitty eyes and 15 years or so, of 
    course.  But, I'm sorry, *this* hoops fan ain't gonna hop onto ANY
    bandwagon with a guy who looks like he was cloned down at the idolatry
    factory....
    
    Big10 Tom

    Liar!  
    
    FACT.  Baby Miner initiated the North Carolina comment.
    
    FACT.  Baby Miner couldn't think of any other schools to mention.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

>    Rod the camera pans over to that new coach and I go limp.  Main!  
>    The guy's a daid ringer for 'Snuffy Smif' - minus the jiggling jowls
>    and liver spots and lizard-like slitty eyes and 15 years or so, of 

This is sheer poetry.  I read this and almost lost my soda all over
my keyboard.  The immediate picture this prose created in ma brain
was too funny.....

'Saw

    The only reason N. Carolina was even mentioned in that interview 
    was due to the comparisons to Michael Jordan(i.e Baby Jordan which
    was his nickname).  If Jordan had gone to Duke than Duke would
    have been used as the Glamor school example.
    
    This embarrassing stooping and groveling for compliments about the 
    North Carolina program is embarrassing.  You'd think that someone
    who talks about how great and honorable the program was wouldn't 
    put on such an embarrassing display of groveling for compliments at
    every mention of North Carolina.
    
    Trying to extract compliments from that trivial interview is really 
    reaching.....
    
    Cap	
    

 �   Trying to extract compliments from that trivial interview is really 
 �   reaching.....
 
 But it's what we've come to know and love from our boy, the Baby Blue
 Soupster.  Face it, guys, if Soup wasn't in here doing this stuff and
 carrying on like this, we'd have to invent him.
 
 He's priceless.  I, for one, am eternally grateful for the hours of mirth
 and merriment that he's brought to our screens.
 
 Bob Hunt

    
    	T...
    
    	Do you like teams because of their coach's looks? or the way a team
    performs on the court?
    
    	I'll take Coach Robinson any day over Smith...even though they do
    look alike.
    
    B.A.
    

Chris Corchianni is now the NCAA career assist leader. He had 13 in
State's road victory at Tennessee, 90-82.

TTom

    Since there's no longer any doubt who is going to win the NCAA
    Championship this year the best you can hope to do is reach the Final
    4.  In other words, you simply MUST stay out of the West bracket to
    have a prayer.
    
    Right now it looks like Ohio State and Arkansas will get #1 seeds
    and thus guarantee avoidance of the West.  The remaining #1 seed
    seems to be between Carolina, Duke, and Syracuse.  Should be
    interesting, but trust me on one point:  If Duke fails to win the ACC
    Championship and the regular season crown (and thereby not get the East
    #1 seed) they ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT be sent out West.  I'll guarantee it. 
    The Duke AD on the selection committee will see to that.  If the same
    fate befalls Carolina though, I'll bet dollars to donuts we'll be sent
    West.
    
    One final thought.  The best Duke or Carolina could hope for is to get
    the #1 seed in the East, yet the Southeast regionals are in Atlanta and
    Charlotte.  Given the higher power ratings of both of these clubs I
    believe Arkansas should go to the East and Carolina/Duke to the
    Southeast.  If Syracuse gets the #1 seed I'd leave them in the East and
    Arkansas in the Southeast.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Chris, interesting observations.  I disagree with you about Duke not
    being sent west if they don't win the ACC.  The selection committee
    would be drooling over the TV revenue generated by a UNLV Duke rematch
    in the regionals.  Money will dictate that move, not the Duke honcho on the
    committee.
    
    For a change, Hurley had a good game on the road...or anywhere for that
    matter...against Arizona.  The rest of the team let him down.  If
    Hurley plays like that against UNC, Duke might win.  Otherwise, Rice
    will dictate the game and the win for the heels.
    
    I've got tickets for the regionals in Charlotte.  I hope to be watching
    Duke and not UNC and it has nothing to do with the teams.  Rather, I
    would want to be surrounded by intelligent, sophisticated Duke fans
    than the rednecked, pickup-driving, low life that come out to support
    UNC.  
    
    	--dan'l

First of all, I totally disagree with "the party's over" thesis about
UNLV having it locked up. Have you heard the term upset?

Secondly, Knorr's prediction is dependent upon his disdain for Duke at
how he perceives they did No Carolina in.

Thirdly, in reply to Dan'l, the Dukesters have 2 modes of operation. When
things are going well for them they are cute, witty, urbane and all them
good things. When things start going bad, they are none of the above. In
fact, a losing Duke crowd is a lot like a losing No Carolina crowd: they
are mostly interested in getting out of the arena. I had the distinct
pleasure of sitting amongst the Duke students for last year's semifinal
in which Virginia beat No Carolina and Ga Tech beat Duke. At the ends of
the games, they looked a whole lot alike.

TTom

    > the selection committee would be drooling over the TV revenue
    > generated by a UNLV Duke rematch
    
    If I were a marketing person for Budweiser or somebody I'd demand my
    commercials get air-time in the first 10 minutes of this rematch, cause
    that's about as long as it would be a contest worth watching.
    
    Vegas blasted them by 30 last year and they're significantly stronger
    this time around.  Duke's about the same, maybe a little weaker.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Duke will get the No. 2 seed in the East Region.  That's where they've
    been the last 3 years and have beaten the No. 1 seed each year to
    advance to the Final Four.  In 1988 they beat Temple, 1989 Georgetown,
    and 1990 UConn.
    
    Carolina will be in the Southeast Region.  Take it to the bank.  The
    NCAA won't be able to resist giving the baby bluesters an edge in both
    Atlanta *and* Charlotte.
    
    TTom, you going to the ACC tournament this year, too ???   A buddy of
    mine called me the other night with the good news that he's got a pair.
    
    Bob Hunt

    > A buddy of mine called me the other night with the good news 
    > that he's got a pair.
    
    So who_ya gonna take with ya, BobHunt?  (Hint: I'm available!)
    
    [Picture in your mind, ACC fans, BobHunt & ACC Chris sitting
     side-by-side, mano-a-mano, catching the ACC Tourney! Ooooo ....]
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Yeah, Bob, I'll be there. It's a grand total of across the street from
the office. Last year, I didn't try for a ticket to the first sessions on
Friday but managed good seats to the semis and finals. 

See ya there.
TTom

 > A buddy of mine called me the other night with the good news 
 > that he's got a pair.
    
     Is there a James Worthy joke in this ?  
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

Gee, what with ACC Chris talking about UNLV having it locked, and
what a "victory" it would be to get to the Final Four, it sounds
like he's setting us up for another North Carolina EXCELLENT LOSS(tm)...

Couldn't resist 8^)
'Saw

    Believe me, Soup, I'd love to go with you to the ACC tourney.  We'd
    have a ball.   I'd like to sit right in the middle of the UNC rooting
    section and start singing the "Na Na Na Na Hey Hey Hey ..." song
    immediately following the Heels' inevitable early exit.
    
    Alas, my college fratre's offer was for he and I to attend.   Perhaps
    another day ...
    
    Bob Hunt

    Players of the week-
    
    	Rodney Monroe, State- 30 points in 2nd half to out score the enitre
    Va team.
    
    	Rodney Rogers,Wake- 23 points, 8 rebounds, 6 steals, 4 assist in
    the game against Clemson was named rookie of the week.
    
    B.A.

    We'd have a good time, no doubt, but me_thinks it would be a whole lot
    better if the state of North Carolina stopped treating the Cavs so rough!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>               <<< Note 17.342 by RHETT::KNORR "Carolina Blue" >>>
>                -< Friday, 3/8 == Vacation Day for ACC Chris! >-
    
    Does this imply that you are coming to Charlotte!?!  Or are you just
    going home to watch the games on TV?
    
    	--dan'l
    

    re: .-1
    
    No Ticket == No Get Together.  Now, if you Charlotte types could strike
    a deal for me it might be a different story!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Yeah, I've got a deal. You come to Charlotte, you  go to the Coliseum,
and you scaclp a ticket.

We provide directions to the Coliseum. 

Anyway, it'll be easy to get a ticket when No Carolin loses. You know how
them Heels is Heels fans and not sports fans, anyway.

TTom

    this year 'Crook, yosure you don't rob a_entire notesfile of
    innocent contest entrants of their human dignity.
    
    And Bob, of *course* the Star Heels will git a_all ACC venue, as
    they do every year.  This is cuz the selection committee knows how
    much your average ACC main luvs to see the good Reverend choke.
    just make sure that this year you don't go off and rob a_entire
    not10 Tom

Yo T,

Where's the decoder ring for .346? You usual eloquent self has been
transmitted as a_incoherency. And I think I know what you're saying, at
least the part about luving to see the Rev choke, which I do.

TTom

    Somebodies usin' MrT's terminal!  (Maybe Spud ...)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 Time for a little serious discussion here ...  Next year when the Florida
 State Seminoles reject the Big Ten and join the ACC, the conference needs
 to modify the ACC tournament format.  So far the ADs have come up with a
 proposed new format that I think stinks.  Here it is ...
 
 Teams are seeded 1 through 9, as you would expect.
 
 Team 1, the regular season champion gets an automatic bye all the way into
 the semifinal round.  To win the title, the top seed needs to win just 2
 games on the final two days of play.
 
 Teams 2, 3, 4, and 5 receive a bye into the round of 8.  Each of these
 teams would have to win 3 straight games in three days to take it all. 
 This is the "standard" Friday, Saturday, Sunday format.
 
 Teams 6, 7, 8, and 9 play each other to decide the 7th and 8th seeds. 
 These two games (6 vs 9 and 7 vs 8) take place on Thursday.   These teams
 need then to win four straight games on 4 straight days to win it all.
 
 After the Thursday games, on Friday, 2 pairs off against the winner of 6
 vs 9, 3 pairs off against 7 or 8 and then 4 and 5 square off.   These
 three winners then join No. 1 for the final four team square off on
 Saturday and Sunday.
 
 Personally, I think this is a ridiculous format.  No team will ever win 4
 games in a row against the higher and better rested seeds.  If I were the
 coach of one of those teams, I'd blow off the tournament and start getting
 the kids ready for whatever postseason play might be next.
 
 And to give No. 1 a free ride into the semis is just as absurd.  The
 conference winner should have to win three games.  Period.  {Note: This
 year is an exception since Maryland is on probation.}
 
 Two alternatives come to mind ... First, send No. 9 home for the summer
 and we'll see you next fall.  Hey, you don't like it, don't finish last. 
 This gets us back to an 8-4-2-1 format.
 
 Second is make 8 play 9 to see who gets the eighth seed but make them play
 it on Tuesday (maybe Wednesday) night so that the winner has a chance to
 catch a breath before Friday.   Play it at No. 8's home court.  The winner
 would still have to win 4 games but they'd be spread out over a period of
 6 days instead of 4 days.
 
 Either of these two alternatives is better than the plan they're kicking
 around now.   The one they've got now is designed purely to make this a
 4-day event at the expense of the kids and it gives no chance to anybody
 but the top 5 seeds.  Not to mention higher ticket package prices and more
 tube dollars.
 
 With all the ACC hot air at the NCAA convention about not forcing the
 athletes to devote too much time to their sport, this is completely
 two-faced and hypocritical.
 
 Bob Hunt

    .349� Second is make 8 play 9 to see who gets the eighth seed but make them play
    .349� it on Tuesday (maybe Wednesday) night so that the winner has a chance to
    .349� catch a breath before Friday.   Play it at No. 8's home court.  The winner
    .349� would still have to win 4 games but they'd be spread out over a period of
    .349� 6 days instead of 4 days.
    
    	I have heard that the ACC is already taking this format into
    consideration.  A Tuesday night game at the 8 home court. 
    
    	BTW, this year there will be no 12:00 game on Thursday...they will
    do the 3:00 the the afternoon session.
    
    B.A.

ACC looking good in the ratings:

Conference power ratings:

	ACC		86.30
	Big 8		85.97
	Big East	83.63
	Big 10		82.81
	SEC		82.37

6 ACC teams are in the top 25:

	No Carolina #3, Duke #5, Ga Tech #13, NC State #19,
	Virginia #21, Wake Forest #22.

TTom

    Good points Ketch.  I don't like the new format either, but I can tell
    you the motivation behind rejecting your 2nd alternative:  $$$$.  The
    Big East does this - the 2 last place teams play each other with the
    winner going on to the tournament and the loser going home.  Trouble is
    NOBODY goes to this game.  It's a Loser Bowl, if you were.
    
    Still better than the format they come up with though.  I'd personally
    opt for the last place team just not getting an invite.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 � The Big East does this - the 2 last place teams play each other with the
 � winner going on to the tournament and the loser going home.  Trouble is
 � NOBODY goes to this game.  It's a Loser Bowl, if you were.
 
 That's because the Big East plays this pre-tournament 8 vs 9 game in
 Madison Square Garden.   People in New York City have much better things
 to do than watch this game, you are correct.   The game might draw more if
 Seton Hall or St. John's were involved (since they're closest to New York
 City) but not much more.
 
 But I wasn't proposing that this game be played in Charlotte or Greensboro
 or Landover or wherever the ACC tournament is played.  It should be played
 on the campus of the 8th place seed.  If so, I can't see why it wouldn't
 be packed.  Can you ???
 
 By the way, next year's ACC tournament is also here in Charlotte.  I
 believe this year is the 2nd year of a three-year deal with the ACC to
 host the event here.
 
 Bob Hunt

    
    re- tournament format:
    
    Boot Clemson out of the ACC and into the SEC where they belong. Then
    there would be only 8 teams to worry about. 
    
    re- GT #13 rating:
    
    Whose rating is that? Much as I like it, Tech is not the 13th best team
    in the country and certainly doesn't deserve to be rated above NC
    State, who has kicked Tech's butt twice.
    
    Chris
    

The ratings are in USA Today and done by Jeff Sagarin.

TTom

    Chris,
    
    Ya beat me to the keyboard.....
    
    GT is (until Kenny leaps) my #2 choice but when I saw that #13
    
    I shook my haid and said "How the 'ell did they get THERE??"
    
    Ah agree totally with your statement!
    
    Kev
    

 More on the future format of the tournament ...
 
 Seems as though it's the ACC coaches themselves who are hottest for this
 new format wherein the top seed plays two games to win it all, the second,
 third, fourth, and fifth seeds play 3 games, and the bottom four seeds
 have to win 4 straight in 4 days to take it all.
 
 Dean Smith was quoted as saying ...
 
    "Anything we can do that gives more meaning to the regular season is
    good for the game.  Teams will be playing for position in the
    tournament as they do in the NBA playoffs.  There's always a lot of
    interest in who's going to make the playoffs and who's going to have
    the home-court advantage."
 
 If anyone can figure out what Smith is talking about here, please let me
 know.   The teams now fight for tournament position and this doesn't
 change for next year, either.  What is at question here is the tournament
 format itself, Dean, and there is no home-court advantage in the
 tournament.
 
 Interestingly enough, both ESPN and Raycom Sports are opposed to the new
 format.  ESPN wants the full four-game Friday schedule with the top eight
 teams involved.  In fact, they've already got that air time scheduled for
 next year.  Raycom Sports feels that it won't be able to sell the Thursday
 package to the affiliate stations in the ACC broadcast areas.
 
 So, the ACC might lose money instead.   And the ACC brass is insisting
 that it's the coaches who want this new format.
 
 Very strange.
 
 Bob Hunt

> If anyone can figure out what Smith is talking about here, please let me
> know.   

"Remember the regular season. Forget the post season tournaments."


TTom

"Remember the regular season. Forget the post season tournaments."


 "Because I usually choke in post season play, without my hometown refs"..

 -- Dean Smith

� > If anyone can figure out what Smith is talking about here, please let me
� > know.   
� 
� "Remember the regular season. Forget the post season tournaments."
    
    Which proves once again that the Charlotte writers worship the water
    Dean Smith walks on.  Because the article I quoted from had to do with
    the new tournament format.
    
    Bob Hunt

Big win for the Pack last night! Gee, it's fun saying that! 
NC State 114, Maryland 91.

Chris Corchianni moved with 8 of the magic 1000 mark for assists with a
20 assist performance. That total set a school record and tied the ACC
record. Most of these went not to Rodney Monroe who had foul problems and
24 points but to sophomore Migjen Bakalli who had 27 points including 8 3
pointers in a row.

Let me stop an instant rathole here and say that Bakalli is not a hired
gun. He's local talent from Belmont, NC, (home of Belmont Abbey). Lives
there. We're not talking Rodl here.

In other action, Duke beat Clemson, 79-62, and Wake Forest beat New
Hampshire, 65-49.

Tonight, No Carolina tries to get back the 1/2 game lead Duke has on the
league. Here's how it looks:

	Duke		10-3
	No Carolina	 9-3
	State		 8-5
	Wake Forest	 7-6
	Ga Tech		 6-7
	Virginia	 6-7
	Maryland	 4-9 (ineligible)
	Clemson		 1-12

TTom

    Big one tonight in Atlanta and I can't say I'm overly optimistic.  Tech
    will be pumped sky-high for this one, what with it being Kenny's last
    home game and all.  Cremins will start his two (2) seniors, Domalik and
    Munlyn, and they'll play the first five (5) minutes of the game. 
    Domalik has promised to make North Carolina 'know he was out there',
    which I hope means clanging jumpers and turning the ball over.  Munlyn
    notes the irony of his last game (he'll be back to the pine after this
    one) being against Carolina, a school he almost signed with.  (Does he
    have reservations?  He should.  Cremins has completely buried a kid
    who's got some ability that Dean coulda brought out.  Bobby hates to
    use his bench though ...)
    
    Four of the last seven Tech-Carolina games have been decided by 1 or 2
    points.  UNC is listed as a 1� point favorite tonight.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    James Munlyn is clueless. Cremins has babied him for five years and the
    guy has just never produced. He was the starting center for the first
    4-5 games a few years back and was a total bust. He has had spot starts
    at other times due to various injuries. His total ineptitude forced
    Cremins to play Tom Hammonds at center, screwing up team chemistry and
    costing Hammonds a setback in his development. I wish Munlyn HAD gone
    to UNC, because he's basically a wasted scholarship.
    
    I think what Domalick was referring to is that he will light it up from
    3pt land tonight. If he comes out hot-WATCH OUT. 
    
    Chris

    >Where's the decoder ring for .346?  You usual eloquents self has
    >been transmitted as a_incoherency...
    
    Sorry, but when I peeled that one off I was halfway throught a 
    family-size bottle of Robitussin DM (tm) and wasn't thinking too
    clearly.  I'm better now.
    
    Btw, congrats to the Almost Close for setting new standards last
    weekend at the Almost Close to sportsmanship exhibited at the
    conference track meet where one sprinter taunted another after 
    breaking his record, only to be bludgeoned in the haid with the
    2nd place trophy on the podium afterwards.  After a trip to the
    the hospital they were able to, er, patch things up.
    
    Big10 Tom

T,

Better watch out for that synthetic narco-type cough syrup. Lord knows
what that might lead to.

I'm glad you're feeling better, at least good enough to appreciate the
track meet bludgeoning. I'm sure Cap will keep us straight on the
charges and convictions.

TTom

�    conference track meet where one sprinter taunted another after 
�    breaking his record, only to be bludgeoned in the haid with the
�    2nd place trophy on the podium afterwards.

Is this the troof!?!?!?

I am properly rollward!

Mike JN

  <<< Note 17.366 by QUASER::JOHNSTON "LegitimateSportingPurpose?E.S.A.D.!" >>>

�    conference track meet where one sprinter taunted another after 
�    breaking his record, only to be bludgeoned in the haid with the
�    2nd place trophy on the podium afterwards.

Is this the troof!?!?!?


 It's true what makes it even worst was it was the first place finisher who
 was doing the taunting and the swinging of the trophy according to the report
 I read....

 mike

    re-few,
    
    	The two runners were from State and Clemson..The player from State
    hit the tiger on the haid(tm) with the trophy he had just won. The two
    had been at each others throats all day long.
    
    B.A.

    I love it, what a great, classic story - who said track wasn't a
    contact sport ;-)
    
    JD

    Basketball is a very strange game.  Who woulda thought Tech would come
    out and play one of the worst halves in Bobby Cremins career when
    Carolina is in town and they're saying 'bye bye' to their seniors and
    one of their greatest talent ever?!  
    
    For the record Tech took 40 first half shots and made [gulp!] NINE of 
    'em.  Barry was OH-FOR-NINE.  Kenny Anderson stunk up the joint big-time, 
    lending credence to recent noters leaving him off they're All-America 
    squads.  
    
    Credit Carolina with solid defense and very good offensive execution. 
    I was particularly impressed with our 2nd half performance.  Just when
    things were starting to go flat we ran the offense and invariably got
    good shots.  Lynch was big on the boards; Hubie Davis hit some outside
    shots to make up for a bad shooting night for Fox.
    
    Bottom line of course is that there WILL BE NO TIE for the Regular
    Season ACC Champeen.  It'll be either Duke or UNC, and it'll be decided
    in the Dean Dome.  :^)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    <set mode == silly statement>
    
    But ACC Chris, if you disregard the fact that Tech threw up more bricks
    than you'll find in the Empire State Building and that they musta been
    shooting (chucking?) with their eyes closed, you gotta admit they
    played one heck of a game!  In fact, IMO, they outplayed the
    baby-blues!
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev

    re: .-1
    
    To say that Tech outplayed Carolina last night in every phase
    except for shooting is roughly equivalent to Saddam's hilarious claims
    of victory in the Persian Gulf War!
    
    ;^)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    	Man, the networks are going to love Sat's game..No 1 on the line,
    Duke vs U.N.C. what a matchup! One problem.....Dean has already paid
    the refs! There's no way in Iraq that N.C will lose this game! Take the
    heels and the points...
    
    B.A.

    > networks are going to love Sat's game..
    
    No doubt that the networks will love this one, but the game's on
    Sunday, not Saturday.
    
    The stakes don't get much higher.  The winner is the regular season
    champ and gets a bye in the 1st round of the tourney.
    
    
    GO
    
    TAR
    
    HEELS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    (insert sound of Carolina pep band breaking into fight song)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Tough weekend:

State came out thinking they would beat Wake and lost. Too much Rodney 
Rogers and too much perimeter accuracy.

Virginia lost at home to Maryland. If that's not bad enough, the Women 
Wahoos (is that what they're called, Bob?) lost to *CLEMSON*. That's 
right, folks. They'll play the Women Pack for the championship.

Kenny Anderson successfully kept his stock falling as he and Ga Tech lost 
at Clemson.

No Carolina played at about the pace of Eric Montross and lost at home to 
Duke, 83-77. The Heels didn't look that good.

Make it 4-0 for the dogs. Good way to lead into the tournament. Oh yeah, 
Duke wins the regular season trophy (not championship), the top seed in 
the tournament and the first round bye.

TTom

    FOUR (4) ACC games over the weekend; FOUR (4) upsets.  Only one of the
    upsets was pulled by a home team.  Is it safe to say this was one of
    the wackiest weekends in ACC history?
    
    [insert ACC Chris griting teeth]
    
    Congrats to the Nerds.  They were clearly the better team yesterday.  I
    congratulate our players though for making a gritty comeback.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>             -< The ultimate whiney nerd Hurley *keeled* us  :^( >-

Ample testimony to how bad the Heels looked yesterday.

I guess it was an appropriate last home game and last regular season ACC
game for King Rice. A somehow fitting send off this latest overrated Chap
from Chapel Hill. He should thank Dean for his degree and choose a new
profession.

TTom

Hurley was at his whiney best yesterday, wasn't he?   I can't even
think of having to watch him for two more years.
Grant Hill was smooth... Laettner looks more solid every time I see him
play;  although I hope he's not a Danny Ferry-type.   

Georgia Tech loses to Clemson.   Kenny A. scored 25 with a single assist.
He's got to have the lowest assist/game average of any superstar point
guard ever... About 6/game.   I saw Mister Jennings of ETSU last night,
and he's a better player than Kenny.  Better shooter, better defender,
better at controlling the flow; all that Kenny has over him is the flash
and the athletic moves;  Anderson will be a big bust in the NBA when he
has to hit the jumper better than 40% and drive against the big boys. 
A lottery pick - no way;

You know what bugs me {#37 of 354} about the Tar Heels?  It's the way
all the players on the bench "officiate" the game.  They spend more time
making traveling and foul calls than cheering on the team.   That's a
function of Dean, who does more grandstanding than Bob Knight ever did.
Knight explodes in short bursts... Dean whines, dances, and stomps the
whole game when he's losing.

    > You know what bugs me {#37 of 354} about the Tar Heels?  It's the way
    > all the players on the bench "officiate" the game.  They spend more time
    > making traveling and foul calls than cheering on the team.   
    
    Well if it bugs you that much Doug I can only hope we keep doing it!
    
    ;^)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>You know what bugs me {#37 of 354} about the Tar Heels?  It's the way
>all the players on the bench "officiate" the game.  They spend more time
>making traveling and foul calls than cheering on the team.   That's a
>function of Dean, who does more grandstanding than Bob Knight ever did.
>Knight explodes in short bursts... Dean whines, dances, and stomps the
>whole game when he's losing.
    
    Boy, Doug, you got that right!  Did you notice the blond kid at the end
    of UNC's bench?  He was on the court a couple times.  During that one
    series where Laitner made several great attempts and then finally
    committed a foul, this kid was all over the place.  He was worse than
    Hurley!
    
    Didn't see much from the "future NBA center" what's his
    name...Cutshilts, Shitclutz, Kiltshits, something like that. ;-)
    Except for the 3-point gift from Hurley, he was shut down in the second
    half.  The same can be said for Laitner, but he seemed to be much more
    of a presence on the court.
    
    Quote from Deano: "I probably should have gone to a zone but I'm too
    stubborn.  I can't do that in Chapel Hill."  Huh?
    
    Wake Forest is truely in ACC champ in my book.  What a year for the
    Deacons.  And they prove they can win on the road right before the
    tournament.  They're either going to fold big time or make an
    impressive run in the NCAAs...no in between.
    
    	--dan'l
    

    I had a_orgasmic revelatory out-of-body experience Sunday morning
    watching Dick Schaat's roundtable show.  They did a fawning piece
    on Dean Smif' as a warm-up to the Duke game, with Schaat saying that
    his Master's thesis eventually sold to a New York newspaper called
    the "Underground Railroad" was on Smif'.  Schaat then said, "only
    thing that's changed is that now they get down there on jets instead
    of one planes.
    
    Referring to 'Snuffy's NYC recruiting supremacy, appropriately enough.
    
    Then CoachK comes up on the screen, with him saying that he "respected"
    'Snuff cuz, "he's consitently excellent."
    
    Yeah, no lie: "consistently excellent."  
    
    Now I understand why they named a_arena after a_active coach with only
    one paltry Title after three decades: He's "consistently excellent"
    (i.e., a recruiting) and given the paucity of Titles they needed to
    breaks the barriers of good taste by naming the building after him in
    order to shor up the image a his flagging program (i.e., having been
    precluded by NC State in Titles and Duke in consistent excellence in
    the form of excellent tournament losses.
    
    People in Hoosierland are praying that IU gets the Star Heels in the
    tourney so that poor Montross cain have reinforced in his face what a
    tragic decision he made.  In retrospect, IU not recruiting him was a
    blessing in disguise, although it certainly cost Eric, who looks the
    same at this point this year as he did last year playing for Lawrence
    Central.
    
    Big10 Tom 

Helping officiate the game is a time honored Tar Heel tradition. Its
personification was Jeff Lebo. A critical point is to notice that as the
game goes worse, this helping increases. 

The Dean quote about not in Chapel Hill refers to one of the theories of
Deandom is that you don't alter your game plan even if it goes sour.
Interesting contrast to how most people try to win and adjust
accordingly. Well Dean's game plan is mostly man-to-man. In fact, most of
his zones are traps, etc. I've only ever seen him change once and that
was a year - or so - ago when he threw a junk defense - box and 1 - on
Tommy Hammond from Ga Tech, who was abusing any type of straight up
defense. Also, it should be noted, that State had been successful
assigning Corchianni to guard him. So Dean let's King try to hang with
him. It should be noted that during the David Thompson era, Dean would
never put up a special defense for him. State, with Thompson, would stand
in line to play the Heels.

In reply to MrT's comments about Eric Montross, a lot of people inside
the Dean system peak in their freshman year. Mostly, the better you are,
the less you improve at Chapel Hill. Not all, just most. In effect,
you're seeing him at about as good as he'll be under Dean. Unless it
turns out that he truly was overrated, in which case he might improve to
Pete Chilcutt. God what an insult! And, of course, he's better off than
Cliff Rozier, who looks like he made an incredibly stupid decision to go
to Dean.

TTom

> The Dean quote about not in Chapel Hill refers to one of the theories of
> Deandom is that you don't alter your game plan even if it goes sour.

Wrong.  It refers to Dean's theory that you play more zone on the road
and more man-to-man at home.


> Well Dean's game plan is mostly man-to-man. In fact, most of
> his zones are traps, etc. 

Wrong, wrong, wrong.  Our traps are invariably run as part of 
The Scramble (formerly known as the 'Run and Jump') which consists of
the ball being double teamed, 2 people playing the passing lanes, and
the 3rd playing free safety underneath.  If this fails to generate
either a turnover or basket we resume playing man-to-man.  When we play
zone it's a 2-3 and there's no trapping involved.

I agree with Dean though - we should've played more zone yesterday.  Duke
is much quicker than us and we payed the price repeatedly.  


> I've only ever seen him change once 

Then you haven't been watching much.  Dean constantly makes defensive
adjustments, and if you don't believe it watch the 2nd half of yesterdays
game again.  Carolina defense is one of the most complex in
the college game.  Sounds to me like you're really saying you've only
seen him go to a junk defense once, in which case you still haven't
been watching much.  We boxed on Kenny Anderson in the Tech game this
year.


> It should be noted that during the David Thompson era, Dean would
> never put up a special defense for him. State, with Thompson, would stand
> in line to play the Heels.

I doubt too many teams playing against a talented 7-footer (Burleson)
and unparalleled outside shooter (Towe) would play much junk defense
against State.  Seeing's how they didn't lose too many games in '73/'74 
(which one of those years were they on probation?) and only played
Carolina a couple of times, it would seem a few other coaches were
hopelessly outcoached as well, eh?


> In reply to MrT's comments about Eric Montross, a lot of people inside
> the Dean system peak in their freshman year. 

This is utterly false.  One of our primary recruiting tools is that 
you may not get as much PT at Carolina but you *will* become the best
you can be.  Witness our outrageous success at turning out pros if you
disagree.  (Last I checked we had more than anybody.)  Also note that
Rick Fox, who'll be on somebody's NBA bench next year, was NOT a McDonald's
All-American, nor was starter Hubert Davis.


> In effect, you're seeing him at about as good as he'll be under Dean. Unless 
> it turns out that he truly was overrated, in which case he might improve to
> Pete Chilcutt. God what an insult! 

I'm not gonna complain about the kid Billy Packer called the best offensive
rebounder in the ACC.  But Eric will be much, much better than Pete
before he's finished.  He's only getting 10 minutes or so a game now, and if
you multiply his stats by 3 (the minutes he'll get next year) I think you'd
find him in the running for ACC Rookie honors.


> And, of course, he's better off than Cliff Rozier, who looks like he 
> made an incredibly stupid decision to go to Dean.

Huh?  Mighty quick to make this observation I'll say.  Clifford has shown
tremendous improvement and looks to be a staple on the front lines for
the next three (3) years along with Montross.  


- ACC Chris
    

�I agree with Dean though - we should've played more zone yesterday.  Duke

Well, I guess ol' Dean-o will be sleeping better tonight, knowing that....


[many wry 8^)]
'Saw

    .385�       -< Like clockwork: UNC loses  >-
    
                                             	
    	Yep! Like clockwork! They lose...
    
    B.A.

ACC Chris' bible - The PooP {sic} Sheet {try asking for that one at your local
newstand and you may be directed to the coprophiliacs section} has used a 
very scientific formula to determine that Kenny Anderson is the best point
guard in the ACC.   The formula?  

	Point/game + (2 * assists/game) - (.75 * turnovers/game)

Let's forget that FG% and FT% and steals and general defense are not considered
in this category... the numbers come out to {league games only}:

	Anderson    GA Tech	33.1
	Corchiani   NC State	28.8
	Crotty      UVa 	25.6
	Hurley	    Duke	25.4
	Rice	    UNC         22.7
	Burks       Clemson     18.2
	McQueen     Wake        16.8
	McLinton    Maryland    15.4


Based on my own subjective system and the 3,000,000 ACC games I've seen 
this year, I'd rank them:

	Corchiani, Anderson, Crotty, Rice/Hurley/McQueen, Burks/McLinton

    Not to beat a dead Tarheel, but yesterday's game contained perhaps the
    most obvious, gracious, blatant, brown-snuff-nosing, homecourt call I
    have ever seen in college basketball.  
    
    I'm talking about the foul called on ?Hurley? and the three-step
    continuation/walk/jump/bump and shoot they gave to Rice.  Homecourt
    calls are, sadly, part of the game, but that one was a bit too
    ridiculous to ignore.  If you call that "in the act" then you have to
    let Hill carry the ball "NBA-style" a couple times, no?
    
    	--dan'l

    The Tar Heels might have quite a few players in the NBA, but most of
    them would have gotten to the NBA anyway.  To put it simply they made
    it to the NBA *DESPITE* Dean Smith.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    
    Rick Fox was a H.S. All-American and very highly rated.  Many teams
    were after his services after one year of H.S. ball in Indiana.
    
    You're slipping Chris......
    
    

    Let me repeat:
    
    RICK FOX WAS *NOT* A MCDONALD'S ALL-AMERICAN.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    All-ACC 1st team:
    
    Kenny Anderson
    Christian Laettner
    Rodney Monroe
    Bryant Stith
    Rick Fox
    
    
    All-ACC 2nd team:
    
    Chris Corchiani
    Dale Davis
    Malcolm Mackey
    Rodney Rogers
    Tom Gulgliotta
    
    
    All-ACC 3rd team:
    
    John Crotty
    Pete Chilcutt
    Bobby Hurley
    Matt Roe
    Thomas Hill
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Chris,

Any word on rookies? 

IMHO, I'd replace Fox with Rodney Rogers, who should be a lock on ROY.

TTom

    
    Wow, ACChris uses only one of the measuring sticks available to measure
    Dean's supposed success with Rick Fox?  He'll do anything but use the
    real facts in a situation to support his cause.  Fox was one of the best 
    H.S. prospects available at the forward position and was heavily recruited.
    He was an extremely talented basketball player to begin with and not
    some nobody that Dean found and shaped into this terrific ballplayer,
    like you'd like us all to think.
    
    What are the stipulations required to be a McDonald's H.S. All-American
    and isn't it a small team?
    
    Plus speaking of Dean's success with Big Men, what ever happened to 
    highly touted big-man recruits Matt Wenstrom and Kevin Salvadori???
    
    They've been tearing up the court this year.  Do you think they'll
    make the NBA?
    
    Cap
    

�       <<< Note 17.395 by STRATA::CAPPEL "Smelts are a wonderful fish" >>>

Yes, they are. I can eat 87 smelt.
    
�    What are the stipulations required to be a McDonald's H.S. All-American
�    and isn't it a small team?

You must look like Ronald McDonald, and smell like rancid hamburger.
As you can imagine, the team is extremely small.

Mike JN

    
>Yes, they are. I can eat 87 smelt.
    
    Makes me remember my days in Birmingham when the had smelt night at the
    local ballpark.  By about the 5th inning, you'd smell the smelts being
    fried in the pits and you're stomach would start grumbling.  The
    ballplayers would purposely get themselves out, just so they could get
    the game over and join in the feast. 
    
    Makes my mouth water just thinking about it......
    
    Cap :-)
    
    P.S.  Smelts are a wonderful fish is taken from that great SNL bit by
    Billy Crystal and Christopher Guest on Negro League players.  Featured
    a cameo from Yogi Berra talking about the virtues of Smelt night.

�>Yes, they are. I can eat 87 smelt.
�    Makes my mouth water just thinking about it......

First had them in Newcastle PA.  Phenomenal eating.  Never had them
since, but it's something I'll never forget.

�    P.S.  Smelts are a wonderful fish is taken from that great SNL bit by
�    Billy Crystal and Christopher Guest on Negro League players.  Featured
�    a cameo from Yogi Berra talking about the virtues of Smelt night.

That was one of my all-time favorite sketches.  The characterizations
by Crystal and Guest were superb.  Smelt night always made me laugh.
I wish I had that bit on tape!

'Saw

    re: TTom
    
    No word on rookies.  I can symphathize with a vote for Rogers, but he
    was inconsistent, symptomatic of a frosh.  Fox was more consistent
    and, IMO, more deserving.
    
    Rogers will be 1st team until he decides to leave for NBA-land.
    
    Oh and, BTW, 44 players are chosen as McDonald's All-Americans.  Also
    Rick Fox appears to be the only non-McDonald's AA to make first team
    ACC.  Good goin' Dean!  (And special kudo's to Rick himself for working
    hard to improve his game ...)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    How in the hail you cain keep Corch off 1st team all-conference is
    beyond explanation.  He's better than Kenny, he's the best point
    guard in the country.
    
    Big10 Tom

Speaking of Corch, he's passed 1000 assists now. The first to attain that
plateau. This is a pretty good record. It's about 9 or so a game for a
4 year career. State was in the post season his first 2 years. I believe
they lost the first game one year (1988) to Murray St and lost in the
regional semis to Georgetown the next year on a disputed no call as Corch
missed a shot but looked like he was fouled by Mourning. State was banned
last year which didn't add any games and look like they're headed to the
tourney this year but based on the rankings they'll be lucky to advance
to the sweet 16.

A couple of questions:

Does anyone know what the NCAA record is for games played? Just curious.

Does anyone know how close Keith Jennings is to Corch? I noticed that
ETSU beat 4 teams last week - 1 regular, and 3 conference tourney games,
including winning the championship. The clips I saw showed him scoring a
bunch himself.

TTom

    Rich Fox not being a MacDonalds ALL-American.  It's true.  Some folks
    said he had trouble flipping burgers, he kept clanging them off the
    front end of the grill.  Others said his problem was at the drive-up
    window - he never seemed to be able to pick out the open car.   Still
    others thought he spent too much time fiddling and diddling near the
    fry-o-later.  Personally, I think his real problems were in beverages -
    his shakes were too slow, his pops didn't fizzle - they were kinda
    flat,  his coffee was week and without pizzazz.  He had trouble setting
    the table and cleaning the glass.  
    
    HE almost made the Domino's all-american team, but he trouble
    delivering on time and driving the lane.
    
    JD

JD --

You slay me!!!!!

'Saw

> ACC Chris' bible - The PooP {sic} Sheet {try asking for that one at your local
> newstand and you may be directed to the coprophiliacs section}

Rong Ross.  See my p-name for my college hoops bible.  The PooP Sheet
is just a pleasant diversion to help me sharpen my knowledge of the
other ACC schools.  (Not to mention uncover ammunition for our well
known family feuds.)

;^)


> The Tar Heels might have quite a few players in the NBA, but most of
> them would have gotten to the NBA anyway.  To put it simply they made
> it to the NBA *DESPITE* Dean Smith.

Interesting hypothesis D-boy, but seeing's how there's virtually
unanimous agreement among NBA scouts that Carolina players are_a
notch above the rest, combined with the raw numbers of pros we've
turned out, I'd say the burden of proof is on *you*!

Haw!!11


- ACC Chris
    

 Awesome.  I go away for a couple of days and come back to 25 or 30 notes
 full of Dean-bashing.  Music to my ears.
 
 Saw another quote by Dean following the Duke loss ... Dean felt that Duke
 had the pyschological edge going into the game because Carolina was at
 home and *HAD* to win.
 
 Let's see now, let's say that together a few times ... 
 
 	Had to win and didn't ...
 	Had to win and didn't ...
 	Had to win and didn't ...
 
 Yep, if it looks like a choke job, acts like a choke job, and sounds like
 a choke job, then it's probably a choke job.
 
 'Nuf said.
 
 Bob Hunt	

    re: .-1
    
    "Everytime UNC loses it's a choke."  Is that a statement we can all 
    agree with?
    
    Yours in intellectual dishonesty,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Chris, you only wish it was that simple.

No. Everytime UNC loses it ain't a choke. In the Wooden era, when No
Carolina lost in the Final Four to UCLA, no one talked about a choke.
They weren't supposed to win and didn't. (I must admit that I still
enjoyed the losses, though.)

But the Duke game is another matter. First of all, it was a home game for
the Heels, a decided edge. To the general populace this establishes that
No Carolina was the favorite. Even the line showed the Heels to be
favored. 

Now we have a quote from Dean hisself about the had to win but didn't.

No, Chris, you can't dismiss this as 

	>    "Everytime UNC loses it's a choke." 

BTW, Bob Hunt, it smelled like a choke, too.

TTom

    re: .-1
    
    Fair enough TTom.  In that case let me revise my statement:
    
    "Everytime a college basketball team loses when they were favored to
    win, they choked."
    
    Still yours in intellectual dishonesy,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    It's not a poop sheet.  Actually, having seen a copy it's better
    described as a *sheet* sheet!  In fack, when ACCrisp mailed me 
    a_unsolicited copy it became a sheet sheet in the LITERAL sense.
    
    I enjoyed the Duke vs. Star Heels game.  I enjoyed seeing 'Snuff
    sitting there refusing to make a strategy change after it'd become
    apparent to everybody that his plan wasn't working and letting the
    Dukies steal one.  I enjoyed seeing Rick Fox and the other seniors
    playing their last game at home in perfect style: losing, vicitimized
    by horrid game coaching, featuring underdeveloped starting H.S. All
    Americas on the bench or flubbing on the court, outplayed by a visiting
    team representing the *new* top Almost Close hoops program.
    
    This was exspecially pleasurable after witnessing in Madison another
    brilliant Bob-move, where after watching his team held to a paltry 23
    first half points he went to a 1-3-1 offense that left the poor Badgers
    helplessly standing by as IU's star alone scored 24 points in the 2nd
    stanza.
    
    Two games, one conclusion: The Great, the Good, and the Ugly Underachiever.
    
    Big10 Tom

    It tweren't a PooP Sheet I sent you MorT.  Rather it was_a 'Carolina
    Blue', clearly a superior publication.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Here's another statement I think we can both agree on MorT:
    
    "When Carolina loses it's cause of bad coaching.  When IU loses it's
    cause they've got no talent."
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    For the record MorT, both IU and UNC finished 2nd in their respective
    conferences.  Both lost to the team that beat them on their home floor.
    Both have similar records (Carolina with 1 more loss but a more
    difficult schedule) and similar rankings.  Both have had #1 ranked
    recruiting classes, although IU's is more seasoned.  (i.e. #1 rank in
    '89; we were #1 in '90)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 �   "When Carolina loses it's cause of bad coaching.  When IU loses it's
 �   cause they've got no talent."
 
 Notice that you cannot, under any circumstances, flip this around.  Like
 so ...
 
 ==>   "When Indiana loses it's cause of bad coaching.  When Carolina loses
 ==>    it's cause they've got no talent."
 
 Excuse me now while I wipe my glasses.  Too much laughter once again.
 
 Bob Hunt

re .409

	I'm not supporting Dean, and I do recognize Duke as the best ACC
	hoops program today.  However, it seems rather ridiculous to compare
	UNC's loss to Duke and IU's victory vs Wisconsin to point out what
	a great coach BK is.  Wisconsin shouldn't have been able to keep
	IU down in the first half, if there had been some decent coaching
	in that part of the game.  UW just is not a good program, Duke is one
	of the nation's premier programs.

    The first quote is just as funny Ketch.  Trouble is you're apparently
    naive enough to believe MorT when he moans and groans about having no
    talent, despite their #1 ranked recruiting class and plethora of quick,
    explosive, and multi-talented backcourt players.  (Note that UNC is
    none-too-loaded in this department, a fact which hurts us dearly
    against quicker teams like Duke.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 Nobody here is foolish enough to swallow any tripe from anybody about
 Indiana lacking talent.   Last time I looked those weren't computer
 science nerds wearing the IU red and white.
 
 However, I do believe it is common knowledge that, on an annual basis, Mr.
 Knight does indeed manage to direct and manage his collections of talent
 to their appropriate level and, in some spectacular cases, even above
 their expected level.   His 1989 Big Ten championship was a masterpiece of
 overachievement seeing as how rival foe Michigan blitzed through the
 NCAAs.  And his 1976 national champions were an equivalent masterpiece,
 only this time, because they met their own expectations.
 
 Contrast that with Mr. Smith.  The next time he overachieves will be his
 lifetime first.   And the next time he comes even close to meeting his
 expectations, you'll need a case of smelling salts to wake up all the
 fainted noters in here.   No doubt if he ever does that again he'll piss
 off the Tar Heel faithful who, by now, have become oh-so-content with
 worshipping each excellent loss the Rev racks up.
 
 He's really losing it.   So far this year he didn't call a time out in the
 middle of a Ga Tech run because he was too proud to, he wouldn't go to a
 zone defense against Duke because they were playing at home, and he
 conceded the psychological edge to the same Duke team because the pressure
 was on his team to win at home.  Not to mention that he made pine jockeys
 out of the greatest recruiting class ever.
 
 Oh, yeah, and he looked dazed and confused in losing the overhyped grand
 rematch to a South Carolina team that looks incredibly mediocre right now.  
 I could have come up with a better substitution pattern for *that* game if
 I had rolled dice behind the bench and whispered the results in his ear.
 
 Bob Hunt

re: .408
    
>    "Everytime a college basketball team loses when they were favored to
>    win, they choked."
    
Chris, when did anyone say this? 

Let's put this "choke" in perspective. First of all there's all this
"greatest coach", "greatest program", "greatest recruiting", etc.,
superlatives that you apply to the Tar Heels program. Well one
immediately wonders why they'd ever lose except through underachieving.
But that's not the question here.

In simplest terms, whoever gets the credit for the winning and gets the
credit for the losing. If Dean is a cause of the "winning tradition"
then he's the cause of the "choking tradition".

TTom

    Past history aside, it is my personal opinion that both Indiana
    and Ohio State are heavily overrated.  Based on their records
    both should be a #1 or #2 seed, and I believe neither will make
    it through the opening weekend.  I do however think North Carolina
    has the horses to make it through the opening weekend.  I think the
    big ten is going to go into the sweet sixteen with zero
    representatives.  
    
    Jimbo

    Who's got the starting times for tomorrow's ACC first round?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    NC State vs GT	2:00
    UNC	vs Clemson	7:00
    Wake vs UVA		9:30
    
    Saturday games at 1:30  and 4:00.
    Championship game Sunday at 2:30

    Yee Haw!  I'm Charlotte-bound for the ACC Tourney!!  
    
    Yup folks, my Techhaid neighbor scoffed two (2) tix and will be taking
    me along for a hoops-filled weekend in the Queen City.
    
    Who else is goin'?  Perhaps we can meet at some point and root the
    Heels on.  (Or at least just meet!)
    
    I'm up for almost anything.  We're leaving tomorrow am and will be
    staying at a Holiday Inn ~ 8 miles from the Coliseum.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    That's great news, Chris.
    
    One of my fraternity brothers from Virginia got a pair for us a few
    weeks ago.  He's coming down to Charlotte tonight from the Tidewater
    area.
    
    Send me mail and we'll arrange to meet.
    
    I think TTom will be there, too.  The DEC District office is right
    across the street from the Coliseum and he was successful last year in
    just walking over and scooping up a disappointed fan's remaining tix. 
    You gonna do that again, TTom ???
    
    See you there, Soup.
    
    Bob Hunt

    Chris, coincidetnly this is the weekend for The 3rd Annual Great
    Charlotte Male Bonding Weekend.  If you can make it to the Paper Doll
    Saturday night, I will be there with a host of my northern buddies
    partying like wild animals.  I owe you a couple beers for all the past
    Carolina bashing I've done so I hope you can make it.  Just ask one of
    the ushers for the Medvid table.
    
    Holiday Inn eight miles from the colesium?  I can't figure that one
    out.  There's one about two miles away.  Maybe it's the one right
    across the border into SC.
    
    Send me mail if you need any info.
    
    	--dan'l

    > I owe you a couple beers for all the past Carolina bashing I've done 
    > so I hope you can make it.  
    
    Boy if you owe me a couple imagine how many Hunt & Haas owe me!  
    
    This Paper Doll thing sounds intewesting, and I just so happen to have
    Saturday night free.  (Last game starts @4:00.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 None.  Zip.  Zilch.   Nada.  Zero.   Montross's uniform number.
    
 Medvid is a candy-ass girly mon wimpoid who feels compelled to feel guilty
 about bashing Carolina.
    
 I, of course, have no such guilt and, in fact, revel in bashing the Baby
 Bluesters.  You will get no suds from me.
 
 See you in Charlotte, Soup ...
 
 Bob Hunt

    Bob, you should know that I'm just trying to get Chris to the Paper
    Doll so he can be "part of the floor show."  It might be worth your
    while to show up too.
    
    	--dan'l

    Now just HOLD on a gosh-darned sec here.  Just what kinda place *is*
    this Paper Doll anyhow?  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Trust us ... you'll *love* it.   Would I lie to you ???
    
    Bob Hunt

    This sounds like_a place Helms tried to shut down!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    	Back to B-Ball..Duke to win the whole thing with U.N.C second.
    
    B.A. 

In summary:

1. I may or may not be at the games today.

2. I will most certainly attend the gala festivities of the Evening at
the Paper Doll.

3. If I had a nickle for everytime I bashed the Tar Heels, I'd be a rich
man. I'll avoid the issues of guilt, compensation, or any linkage to any
girly mon issues.

Meanwhile, the headlines of the paper are blaring notice that Kenny
Anderson is on the way out of the ACC and hopefully headed to the NBA.

Go Pack.
TTom

�       <<< Note 17.407 by HBAHBA::HAAS "Big Smile at the Drivethrough" >>>
�                            -< a choke and a smile >-

�    But the Duke game is another matter. First of all, it was a home
�    game for the Heels, a decided edge. To the general populace this
�    establishes that No Carolina was the favorite. Even the line showed
�    the Heels to be favored. 

    You're right. It wasn't just the general populace. The line was NC
    by 6.5 points. How I know is: I took Duke and made $50.00

    Mike JN

	Final score in the ACC tournament:
	North Carolina State 82, Georgia Tech 68
	Tech was very sloppy with the ball, may have sent themselves to
	the NIT.

    Well North Carolina got the gift of the year.  No way do they deserve a
    #1 seed.  #1 seeds should come from conference champions not a team
    that wins a tourney(Jim Delaney and the selection committee have stated
    this on many occasions).
    
    A couple of quotes
    
    "I think you have to be a champion of some kind to be a No. 1 seed.  I
    think both N.C. and us are solid No. 2s.  Indiana by tying for the
    Big10 championship deserved the No. 1 seed."  Mike K. Duke
    
    'Indiana didn't get the No. 1 seed, probably because Dean Smith has
    whined so much about his draw the past few years and the committee
    decided to quiet for at least a few minutes by giving him a No. 1 seed
    and a draw that will leave him with no excuses should Carolina fail to
    reach Indianapolis."  John Feinstein.
    
    'With perhaps the greatest recruiting class EVER this season, Smith is
    expected to get to the Final Four at least twice and win it all at
    least once.'  The National
    
    So not only did NC get an undeserving #1 seed but they also got the
    easiest draw in the entire field.  If they don't get to the Final Four
    this year, than it will go down as one of Smith's greatest choke jobs
    to date.
    
    Cap

    re -1
    
    This is exactly the kind of hypocritical note I love.....
    
    Here we have Hawk, who enters brainless drivel(junk notes) into 80
    different notes during the day and then comes into a note demanding
    that a subject stay in one topic.
    
    Classic, simply classic
    
    Cap

    Congrats to UNC on the tourny championship.  Total destruction of Duke.
    
    Dean Smith is by far the best recruiter in the history of college
    basketball.  Somehow he got Duke to recruit Bobby Hurley; Hurley was
    the Tarheel's MVP yesterday by a long shot.
    
    Wake Forest might just show up at the Final Four if Inidana loses to
    Coastal Carolina...nah!
    
    	--dan'l

    Like I said, Hurley is waaaaayyy overrated .....
    
    

	Probably Indiana would have been a #1 seed if the Big Ten had
	been more competitive this year.  They were unusually weak this
	year, I thought, and I believe that had an effect on their seeding
	relative to UNC's.

    Congrats to the Heels for what had to be their best game of the year
    yesterday.  The defense was cranked up to levels I didn't think
    possible early on, and that set the tone for the game.  (i.e. early
    frustration by Hurley leading to an absolutely horrendous game; 2 early
    fouls on Laettner - he later got whistled for a Technical)  Our offense
    executed well and, just as importantly, we shot the ball very, very
    well.  
    
    As to UNC getting the #1 seed in the East, there were several factors
    in their favor and none of them had anything to do with the ridiculous
    and uncalled for comments made by Feinstein.  [And echoed almost
    verbatim this morning on NPR by Bill Littlefield :^(]
    
    Consider:
    
    o UNC had a better record over the last 10 games (a stat the selection
      committee looks at)
    o UNC was the ACC Champion  (IU only co-champ)
    o UNC had a better power rating (#6 for IU; #4 for UNC, the way the
      selection committee calculates it)
    
    I doubt it was a factor but the fact that we beat Duke so convincingly
    on a neutral court didn't hurt.
    
    Special thanks go to Mr. Medvid and BobHunt for a most excellent time
    Saturday night.  Witnessing Carolina win an ACC Championship is 
    certainly an experience neither I nor Ketch will forget!  (As hard as
    he might try ...)  Imagine if you will folks being in the same building 
    as BobHunt whilst UNC disposes of UVa in a thriller, and then gettin' 
    to gloat about it in the poor guys own living room!!!!1111
    
    ;^)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re -1
    
    I have absolutely no problem with what you put in this file and I've
    found that your notes are entertaining, but alot of the notes have
    absolutely nothing to do with sports.  That's why I find exception with
    the high and mighty, 'Don't you dare put a Dean Smith bash note in
    such and such note.'  The note was extremely hypocritical and was
    rightly pointed out. 
    
      -< We should all be as intelligent, sophisticated, & humorless... >-
    
    Intelligent:  Yes
    Sophisticated:  Nah(belch....)
    Humorless:  On the contrary, my sense of humor is as good as anyone's.
    
    Never said junk notes aren't fun and entertaining but if you are going
    to complain about a subject straying from it's note than you should 
    practice what you preach......
    
    Cap
    

    Re:  Mr. Rollins
    
    I agree that the Big10 had a down year this year, but I don't see the
    ACC being that superior this year.  They only had one more entry this
    year than the Big10.  Indiana finished #3 overall in the national
    polls and with a conference championship deserved a #1 seed.
    
    Cap

    GO HUSKIES!!!!!!!! BEAT THE TARHELLS (TM)!!!!!!
    
    
    JD

    re .442
    
    Of late Cap, you've been acting like some stuck a hornet in you pants.
    Somebody makes a comment, and you go off the deep end - reading a lot o
    nothing into a note.
    
    Maybe it's that time of the month for you :-), in which case we'll make
    an extra effort to be considerate.
    
    But you should take a chill pill - or five.
    
    Really.
    
    I'd hate to see your reaction when Indiana gets waxed in the tourny ...

    Re Hawk...
    
    That's cool, I see your point.  Didn't mean to say your notes were 
    brainless drivel, I quite enjoy the junk notes.  Alot of times they
    are the perfect stress releasers....  Smith bashing wouldn't take place
    in this notes file if a certain noter would not place a god-like
    persona on him and admit to some of his frailities.  
    
    Re Doc.
    
    With as many people as you've pissed off in your everyday appearances
    in any notesfile, rotis leagues, etc., taking advice from you would 
    be akin to allowing a spurned ex-girlfriend/wife to perform a
    circumcision on you shortly after your break-up.
    
    You just get mad when someone whips your a$$ in an argument and exposes
    you as a fraud in other areas(i.e athletic talent).  Resorting to personal 
    attacks doesn't improve your stature but it might help that enormous ego 
    of yours that is in constant need of massaging.....
    
    If you'd like to discuss this further, send mail, as I won't do it in
    this notesfile.....
    
    Cap

    
    I wonder what Bob Hunt's reaction is to the screw-job that Virginia
    got....
    
    First they get sent to the West, the toughest bracket in the tourney
    this year, receive a decent #7 seed and are rewarded with playing
    BYU in Salt Lake City.  Virginia is in for a tough one since they are
    basically a very small team, Shawn Bradley should have a field day...
    
    Cap

    Thanks, Cap, for getting back to the point.  Yes, let's not get into a
    Dean Bashing rathole but we'll spend 10 notes on each others merrits. 
    Cripes!  On with the Dean Bashing and Hurley Downing!  8-)
    
    BYU gets to play at home because their religion forbids them from
    playing on Sunday.  So they get their little nitch close to home with
    the Salt Palace filled with Mormons.  What a load of crap!  Go Wahoos!
    
    	--dan'l

    
    I agree Dan'l, basically BYU was rewarded because of their religion.
    
    What a crock.....
    
    There should be no prejudices within this tourney.  If BYU can't play
    on Sunday, than they should forfeit their spot in the tourney.  No
    special arrangements should be made for a team....
    
    Cap

 Well, that certainly was an intense weekend.  I have to admit that the
 last thing I want to do right now is go see a college basketball game.  
 Three games on Friday, two more on Saturday, and one on Sunday.   That's a
 *lot* of hoops and I've had my fill for a while.
 
 Random thoughts and observations ...
 
 I was convinced Georgia Tech was NIT bound.  NC State took them apart and
 Tech didn't even seem to care.  Kenny Anderson is way overrated.  He's got
 some nice moves but the NBA widebodies will beat on him like a drum.   No
 doubt the NCAA gave them a bid to get just a few more hours of Anderson on
 the tube.   They won't last long.
 
 Rodney Monroe is a bonafide silky smooth pure shooting guard.  He should
 stick in the pros for 10 years or more.   Gugliotta and Corchiani are
 tough hard-nosed players and they're fun to watch but Monroe is a dream
 player.
 
 Clemson almost took out Carolina.   Carolina left the middle w-i-d-e open
 in the first half and the Clemson guards just waltzed right down the lane
 for easy layups.  Second half started with Carolina in a 2-3 zone to clog
 up the middle (guess it was because Dean looked at a map and realized he
 wasn't in Chapel Hill anymore) and Carolina then immediately went on 10-2
 run to take the lead.  So what did Dean do ???  You got it, he shitcanned
 the zone and Clemson got right back into it.   Unfortunately, after that,
 Clemson's shooting touch went back to the Palmetto State before the team
 bus did.   They couldn't buy a bucket and Carolina killed them softly at
 the free throw line.
 
 Oh, and Dean was nattily attired in a dark blue double-breasted pin
 striper with matching pocket square and black wing tips.   I was shocked. 
 I thought for sure he'd be wearing one of his trademark milk chocolate
 puke brown suits with the wing-sized lapels.
 
 The Wahoos then pulled off the only upset of the day taking out the
 third-seeded Demon Deacons of Wake Forest.  This was an experience win. 
 Wake was too young to win this game but let me tell you something ... oh,
 my heavens, is Rodney Rogers a stud widebody.  He's got it all ... a
 physique chiseled out of stone, long-range three point accuracy, inside
 moves, jams galore, and, gulp, three more years of eligibility.  Wake is
 the up-and-coming team in the ACC.   Rogers has future ACC Player Of The
 Year written all over him.
 
 The Wahoos win was HUGE.  H-U-G-E.   After we got home and got some more
 scores and saw that teams like Syracuse, Mississippi State, and so on had
 been bounced and that suddenly hot teams with poor or losing records like
 Louisville, Villanova and Tennessee were all still alive, we looked at the
 Hoos win as the saving grace for the Big Dance.
 
 On Saturday, Duke blitzed NC State.  This was somewhat predictable because
 the entire NC State starting five had all played in excess of 38 or 39
 minutes the night before.  They had to be tired and Duke was as fresh as
 could be.   Hurley played a great game on Saturday and Grant Hill was
 awesome. He'll be All-ACC someday, too.   After this performance, I didn't
 think Duke would lose again this year until they ran into Vegas again
 sometime deep into The Show.
 
 Carolina blew by the Hoos in the first half with a huge rebounding
 advantage.  They had a 30-11 rebound advantage at the break and they had
 more offensive boards than the Hoos has boards total.   Carolina led by 14
 at the half but the Hoos scored the first 9 points of the 2nd half to get
 right back in it.  Ultimately, they were tied at 61-61 and Stith had a
 free throw to finish off a three-point play for the lead.  He missed the
 charity striper and Rick Fox hit a three and it was over.   The Hoos' run
 to tie it took all the effort they had and Carolina hung on to win.   The
 Hoos did hit two late treys and when King Rice missed the front end of a
 1-and-1, the Hoos had the ball with 9 seconds left and a chance to tie. 
 But Rice stripped the ball from Crotty at half court and Fox laid it in at
 the buzzer.   I thought Rice fouled him but even if he did it was a smart
 foul since Virginia was down by 3 at the time.
 
 My first words to Soup after the game were ... "You don't expect me to
 start liking them *now*, do you ???"   Soup supplied the right answer to
 prove he does have some brains, after all.   More on the rest of the
 evening a bit later.
 
 The final game on Sunday was a shock to me.  Carolina basically had
 struggled through its first 2 games and Duke looked unbeatable in its only
 contest.  Plus Duke seemed to have Carolina's number this year having
 abused them twice already.  But Carolina came out smoking and grabbed an
 11-2 lead.  Hurley was horrid.  He tossed away a couple of ill-advised
 passes right off the bat and K benched him real quick.   Carolina just
 kept pouring it on and this one was over before halftime.  Greg Koubek hit
 a bunch of threes in the 2nd half and Laettner had some inside buckets but
 the whole 2nd half was basically garbage time.  Laettner must have said
 the magic word to one of the refs because he got a T and then a seat on
 the bench.   
 
 Duke should be embarassed by this one.  Oh, and Soup, this was a talent
 win.  Dean could have slept through this one and probably did.
 
 Okay, now for the highlight of the weekend ... the Paper Doll Lounge.  
 The four of us, me and my buddy and Soup and his neighbor pal, got to the
 PDL at about 9:30pm and got ourselves a table.  The place was already
 boppin' and Dan'l Medvid came over and told us that the Luke and Smiley
 Award contest was already over and that "Pepper" had won it.  
 
 Shortly thereafter, Pepper herself came on over to our table with Dan'l in
 hot pursuit.   Well it wasn't long before the Soupster was up on stage
 dancing his fool buns off with Miss Pepper, the ultimate shaker.    Soup
 was obviously in a sagging zone defense because Pepper attacked his weak
 spots with a vengeance.   First his shirt was out of his jeans and then
 she had it halfway off his back.   You could see him shaking his head "No,
 No!" but pretty soon she had his belt off and was swinging it around like
 a lasso.  I have to admit ... Soup's got some good moves on the dance
 floor ... especially the ones where he's holding on to his shirt with one
 hand and his pants with the other trying to figure out if she's going to
 keep stripping him.
 
 Yep, she sure was.  Nexted thing you know, Soup's BVDs are there for all
 the world to ponder and Pepper is vigorously ... [CENSORED].    Sorry,
 folks, this is a family conference and Dean would be most disappointed in
 his loyal subject's wanton behavior.  You'll just have to use your
 imagination here.  Suffice to say that calling him "ACCaught" would be
 *MOST* accurate today.
 
 You can also assume that the evil twins, Dan'l and I, were exchanging
 numerous grins, hoots and guffaws and high fives.  Oh, if I only had a
 camera ...
 
 A truly wonderful weekend and I'm glad it only comes along once a year. 
 Carolina deserved their wins but I hate 'em even more.  Big surprise.
 
 Back to reality ...
 
 Bob Hunt

    Geez ACC Chris, did the wifey get a full report of the proceedings that
    went on at the Paper Doll. ;-)  
    
    Dean Smith and Jesse Helms would have been embarrassed at that display
    of wanton lust.....
    
    Cap(Many smilies)

>    Virginia is in for a tough one since they are
>    basically a very small team, Shawn Bradley should have a field day...
   
    Bradley isn't very physical and is prone to foul trouble.  But his size
    is definitely hard to overcome, especially if you don't have anyone to
    match up who matches up with him well.  As for BYU playing in Salt
    Lake, it is only about 50 miles from the BYU campus, but BYU is *not*
    well-liked by the Utah fans or anyone else around the WAC.  Friday
    night against Hawaii in the WAC semis, it was like a home game for
    Hawaii, and there weren't any true Hawaii fans at the game.  But any
    Utah fans who don't follow the Utes to Tucson and decide to attend the
    games in Salt Lake, they definitely won't be pulling for conference
    neighbor BYU.
    
    Ohio State is another school who is playing close to home, in Dayton.
    
    Joe 
 

    
    Sounds like some serious hard-core blackmail material to me, Bob.  What
    was that you were telling ACChris about revenge being sweet a couple of 
    weeks ago?  And he thought you were talking about Virginia-Carolina
    basketball...
    
    The only ACC action I saw all weekend was the second half of the
    UVa-UNC game, and Carolina looked terrible.  Obviously I saw them at
    their lowest point since they did win it all, but you talk about flat!
    The Baby Blues were standing around, Dean was looking frenzied, and
    when a couple of generous calls went Virginia's way and Carolina 
    picked up the T, well, I thought maybe the Cavs were gonna blow right 
    by them.  They didn't, but Carolina certainly can't expect to take 10
    minutes off in the NCAAs like that, at least not after the first round.
    What'd Dean put in the water at halftime, anyway?
    
    glenn
     

    FWIW, Chris's underwear are not baby blue.  
    
    Chris, never believe a stripper when they promise not to pull your
    pants down.  Like dogs and bees, they can smell fear a mile away. 
    Sorry you had to learn the "hard" way.
    
    	--dan'l

    re .447
    
    Like I said, see how personally you're taking stuff ?
    
    I'd laugh at you, but it's really sad to watch you in action now ...

    re .451
                                                            
    Jeff, what makes you think that NC will get by Northeastern ?
    
    :-)
    
    Doc

    re . 453
    
    Pepper was probably the reason why Dean stayed seated for the entire
    Duke game ... if ya know what I mean .... :-)

    So Doc, re .458 - you jumping on my alma mater's bandwagon???
    
    JD

>>                                                            
>>    Jeff, what makes you think that NC will get by Northeastern ?
>>    

I don't ;-).  But I couldn't very well say that Princeton would beat
Northeastern in the ACC note.  Cap would be all over my sh*t ;-).

    JD, it isn't a matter of wagon-jumping. As I've said from DAy 1, I
    expect a Arkansas/UNLV title game.
    
    I just get incredibly rooooowaaard thinking about the heat that ACC
    Caught will, uh, catch if the Huskies apply the hammer in the opening
    round.
    
    Besides, if I start grad school next quarter, it may become my alma
    mater too .....
    
    Doc

What does Coach K do with Hurley next year?   Does he show any sign of
improving?  

 Other random thoughts and observations from the ACC Tournament ...
 
 We've all listened to MrT moan and wail over the years about how the ACC
 Tournament is just an exercise in raking in huge financial profits.  Well,
 after seeing this tournament up close and personal, if you will, I say BFD
 if it is ...  
 
 Trust me, the wealthy blue bloods who annually attend this tournament can
 afford the luxuries of life.   I've never seen more BMWs, Mercedes, and
 Jags in one parking lot in my life.  And each one with yet another cutesy
 vanity license plate like ... "GO DUKE" or "HEELS 1" or "WOLFPAK".   This
 was *not* a WWF crowd ... this was very old, very much of it, Southern
 white money.  100% Grey Poupon, for sure.
 
 Believe me, if this was a ripoff, *NOBODY* was complaining.
 
 Tickets were almost impossible to come by on Friday and Saturday but they
 were in abundance on Sunday for the final.  Everybody wanted a pair the
 first two days but people were practically giving them away yesterday.  
 The crowd yesterday was solid blue ... Carolina and Duke.  All the NC
 State red, Clemson orange, Wahoo orange and blue, and Wake and Tech black
 and gold were gone.
 
 NC State had the most acrobatic cheerleaders ... Geez, these girls were
 testing some new aerodynamic theories or something.   The guy cheerleaders
 (sigh, how do you get one of *those* jobs ???) would fling them way way
 way up in the air, they'd spin, flip, tumble and twirl and then land
 gently in the guys' arms.  The Duke students had a funny cheer for them,
 though, on Saturday ... "Cir-cus Re-jects, Cir-cus Re-jects, ..."
 
 The Duke girls were pathetic.   Looked like they were ready for a
 50s' style sock hop after the big game.   Not much rhythm and not much
 "talent", either.
 
 The Carolina girls looked a bit on the scrawny side to me but they were
 very energetic.   They did hold up signs for their fans to use in spelling
 C-A-R-O-L-I-N-A and U-N-C.  Made me wonder if they teach English in Chapel
 Hill.
 
 The Georgia Tech girls looked great but they didn't have much to cheer
 about.  Same goes for the Clemson babes.   The Wake cheerleaders wore
 black with gold trim.  I dunno, to me, black just doesn't look good on
 cheerleaders.   Don't know whether to cheer or mourn.   
 
 My Wahoo-ettes looked mighty tasty in their bright orange and blue getups
 but, to be honest, they haven't changed their cheers in years.  They need
 some new material.  PLus they also held up big cardboard letters for us to
 use to help spell U-V-A.  Only they held up two of each like this ...
 U-U-V-V-A-A.    My intelligence was insulted.  :-)
 
 I can see now why NCAA and conference probation is such a bitter pill to
 swallow.  Maryland missed out on this year's tourney and I can imagine
 that their fans and players were pissed.  It's a very exciting atmosphere
 and the crowd really gets into it.
 
 The Charlotte Coliseum is a gorgeous facility.   Traffic in and out was a
 dream compared to the messes I was used to in Philly.   
 
 During the national anthem, they showed film footage of US troops coming
 home to Fort Bragg in Fayetteville, NC.  Not a dry eye in the house.   I
 like the shots where the little kids squirm outta mom's arms and go racing
 across the tarmac where dad scoops 'em up.   Whoooo, that's nice to see. 
 All politics aside, I love seeing this stuff.
 
 Bob Hunt

    >Indiana finished #3 overall in the national
    >polls and with a conference championship deserved a #1 seed.
    
    If they had wrested away one it should have been Ohio State's who has
    been doing some major gagging down the stretch.  But even still, IU
    doesn't have much to complain about.  I think they're in the easiest
    bracket and should be prohibitive favorites to reach the round of 8.
    
    Cap, now that you've gotten the obligatory UNC and Smith bashing out of
    the way, isn't it about time you guys start praising the living
    daylights out of Coastal Carolina just in case they remind Bob of the
    California Golden Bears?
    
    Dan

    Re. Dan
    
    Agree on the Ohio St. issue as well........
    
    As far as this year's team goes, I won't be worried or upset when they
    bow out.  I don't expect a title run this year.  They are too weak in 
    the middle to put up a serious run.  The next two years I expect title
    runs, when Henderson arrives.... The Hoosiers are still young, all but
    Lyndon Jones are sophomores or freshman in their 9 man rotation.  Young
    teams are prone to upsets, but we'll see how they do.....
    
    I was very surprised with a Big10 title this year, I figured IU would
    finish 3rd behind Michigan St. and Ohio State.  Knight definately has
    this team playing past my expectations.  The game with Ohio St. was the
    best game of the year and probably the best game of the last 5
    years....
    
    However, I do hope for a meeting with UNLV.  I think Indiana and Knight
    would present serious problems for Tark and the Rebels.  IU plays a
    very deliberate and patient offense and would not get burned on the 
    break-away fast breaks that UNLV scores so often on.  
    
    It should be a good tourney this year, I expect alot of surprising upsets. 
    I believe parity has reached the college ranks....
    
    Cap

    I wonder how Mr. Feinstein and Bill Littlefield feel now that Carolina
    finished in the top 4 in the country.  Their senseless and uncalled for
    remarks about Carolina's #1 seed coming solely because of Dean's
    whining were completely without backing fact or logic.
    
    Me thinks they're taking some justified heat right now.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    > I wonder how Mr. Feinstein and Bill Littlefield feel now that Carolina
    > finished in the top 4 in the country.  Their senseless and uncalled for
    > remarks about Carolina's #1 seed coming solely because of Dean's
    > whining were completely without backing fact or logic.
    
    Chris, haven't you been the one complaining for years now about Duke's
    inside man giving them favorable treatment in the NCAA seedings? 
    Considering that Duke beat Carolina 2 out of 3 and won the more
    important regular-season ACC championship, I'd say you've got some egg
    on your face, too.
    
    glenn
    

 Carolina got the top seed simply because they blew out Duke by 22 points
 in the ACC final.   Duke's No. 2 seed in the Midwest and Carolina's No. 1
 seed in the East had to have been pre-slotted by the selection committee.
 
 My opinion ... if the final game had been a tight one, regardless of
 outcome, the East top seed would have gone to Duke.   
 
 They probably could have ignored a UNC buzzer-beater win and still given
 the East nod to Duke because of their regular season sweep over the Dirty
 Feet.  The selection committee just couldn't ignore the fresh romp and,
 thus, gave the East top seed to Carolina.
 
 It's all pretty academic anyway.  Dean will make the Sweet Sixteen for the
 11th year in a row and then they'll catch a return flight back to Chapel
 Hill shortly thereafter.
 
 Bob Hunt

    
    	WF's Odem got Coach of the Year with Robinson second!
    
    	Congrat's...
    
    B.A.

    The Almost Close is almost close to having a Champ: If you like round
    robin even-steven competition Duke's the Champ.  If you like rubber
    match 2-out-of-3 jobs Duke's the Champ.  If you like, as Bob Hunt does,
    meaningless money-grubbing spectacles, then nobody's the Champ.
    
    Whatever the case, pointing to prior 10 games or recent performances
    or total number of wins penalizes honest competition and favors the
    gratuitous kind.  Bob Hunt seems amazed that a tourney is exciting.  Is
    he just as surprised, then, that his regular season is yet again proved
    to be void of import and even symbolic weight?
    
    re: Cap
    
    Small nit, but Eric and Matt-the-Stiff are both juniors.  Coastal
    Carolina is IU's worst nightmare: A very big, very quick, highly athletic
    front-line.  If they beat CC they're looking at more of the same in FSU.
    
    But the Hoosiers are running Bob's offense at 100% (the first time one
    of his teams has attained Mantra in years), doesn't turn the ball over,
    and plays tough D.  On the downside, they're too small to rebound well
    or intimidate inside shots, and as a guard-dominated squad shoot poorly
    from the outside.  Indiana has a deep but deeply flawed squad that lacks
    a middlemain, a quality back-up forward, and a 3-point ace.  But they're
    highly optimized.
    
    If Indiana shoots well from the outside they'll make the Final 8 and
    then get mainhandled by Arkansas' superior physical talent.  If they
    shoot poorly they could lose any game, including CC.
    
    Don't bother falsely charging me with Doug Ross-style poor-mouthing,
    for Dick Vitale, Rick Pitino, Billy Packer, and Jim Valvano all have said
    the same.
    
    A small, poor outside shooting team Big10 Champ and #3 in the nation?  
    Bob is a lock for CoTY IMNSHO.  Kudos, Robert!
    
    Big10 Tom

    
    Dear AP Team Selection Committee,
    
    	I would like to preface my comments with a caveat that I am not a
    religious fanatic or a card carrying member of either Jihad(tm).
    
    	I strongly disagree with your decision to put Kenny Anderson on the
    1st Team All-American this year.  Last year, maybe.  I feel that this
    year, Kenny hasn't consistently demonstrated that the is the best in
    the country in that position.  True, he's shown some incredible and
    occasionally superhuman moves (i.e. the Bobby Hurley
    spin-around-and-score moves), but the several times I've seen him play,
    he hasn't shown the down 'n dirty hustle wanna abuse my body style of
    play.  This is what I watch NCAA BBall for - the competitiveness and
    spirit of this noble game.
    	I am an admirer of Kenny, and I'm very proud to identify with him
    through our common High School but, in trying to be objective and not a
    homer, I believe you made the wrong choice.  Had Kenny clearly shown
    that he was the best, in all his games, at his position, I'd be
    inclined to agree with your selection.  
    	In my opinion, based solely on the BBall games I have watched this
    year and cognicent of the fact that I am subject to East Coast Biases
    Based On Broadcast Media (ECBBOBM) and have see few non-EC games, I
    have formed the following opinion which I'd like to share with you.
    	Kenny Anderson has all the skills to be a great draw with the
    professionals which is why I believe you were hoodwinked by all the "Kenny
    Anderson is god" stuff and were not able to see who the best college
    player was.  In my opinion, the player who most consistently seemed to
    be the best player to epitomize what the College game (and not the Pro
    game) was Chris Corchianni.
    	Please rescind your announcement, revise it, and re-publish it.
    
    
    Thanks in advance,
    Kev_sometimes_a_purest
    
    

    >regular season is yet again proved
    >to be void of import and even symbolic weight?
    
    Proved??  How?  All I've seen is jealous nonsense.  Did the players
    feel the regular season void of import?  Did the coaches?  Did the
    attending fans?  Did the viewing fans?  Did the students at the
    respective universities?  The professors?  The guy who scrubs dishes in
    the cafeteria?  The librarian?  The rent-a-cops?  
    
    Did anyone in any way connected with the conference find themselves
    saying "gee, the regular season just isn't important."  who otherwise
    would find it important if they abandoned the conference tournement?
    
    >Coastal                                                                    
    >Carolina is IU's worst nightmare: A very big, very quick, highly athletic
    >front-line.  If they beat CC they're looking at more of the same in FSU.
    
    Whooooosh!  Thanks, MrT.  Cap let me down and I've been holding my
    breath ever since I asked for the whiney, pandering, poor-mouth
    special.  BTW, IU has been installed as 20+ point favorites against the
    might Chanticleers.  Do you recall how much they were favored against
    the Golden Bears last year?  I ask, not to rub it in but to provide
    further poor-mouth material just in case.
    
    >Bob is a lock for CoTY IMNSHO.  Kudos, Robert!
    
    Hold the Kudos.  Patino coached rings around him.
    
    Dan

    ACChris,
    
    Pick up a National today....  On pg. 6 it has an article by Mr.
    Feinstein on Dean Smith.  The Title of the Story is.....
    
    Dean Smith a Winner and a WHINER....
    
    The story goes on to talk about Dean's childish mind games, his
    incredible pettiness, his prejudices towards anyone who is not from
    North Carolina and his vindictiveness towards those he does not agree
    with.....
    
    The best quote in the article is from Lefty Driesell....
    
    "Dean Smith is the only man in history to win 700 games and be the 
     underdog in every one of them."
    
    Cap

    News of Feinstein's apparent hatchet job on Dean goes a *long* way
    toward explaining his silly, uncalled for, and wholly ridiculous
    comments about Carolina getting the #1 seed in the East only because of
    Dean's "whining".
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Sounds like The Gospel to me ..... :-)

    
    >           -< So Cap, is Feinstein now a credible writer ? >-
    
    Touche', but I hope that the ACC crew is consistent with their opinion
    of Mr. Feinstein's past works, too...
    
    glenn
    

    
    In response to Dan's question, yes, I personally feel that the ACC
    regular season was cheapened this year when a team with the best record
    and the best record against their chief competitor (2-1) goes home as
    Number 2.  If UNC-Duke had split home-and-away, that'd been another
    story, but not even a blowout in a single game at a neutral site should
    erase a season sweep, including a near-blowout on the opponents' court
    not two weeks earlier.
    
    It can also be argued (and has) that with the *real* tournament right
    around the corner, those major conference post-season tournaments are 
    less meaningful and less contested than even the regular-season matches.
    Comparing Duke's NCAA performance with their ACC tournament performance 
    in the recent past would give some credence to that theory.
    
    glenn
    

    If BobHunt or TTom had_a ounce of intellectual honesty they'd pipe in
    now 'bout how the ACC determines its Champion (capital 'C') based on
    the tournament, not the regular season.
    
    Somehow I doubt they will, but rest assured that if fortunes were
    reversed (UNC wins regular season; anybody_else wins tourney) we'd 
    be indoctrinated a_plenty.  (BTW, this scenario has played itself
    out many times.  We've been far more successful winning regular season
    titles than ACC Tournament titles.)
    
    For the record though, Dean and I agree with you Glenn.  The regular
    season *should* be more difficult to win and have more credibility.
    However that's simply not the way the ACC choses to select its
    champion.  Keep in mind however that it's entirely possible for a
    scenario to develop that has a team get swept and *still* win the
    regular season title.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Reasons for the continued existence of a post-season tournament:
    
    1.  Tradition, which is really only true for the ACC
    2.  Pre-NCAA tuneup
    3.  Giving teams with a poor regular-season record a chance for
    redemption.
    4.  In the case of a "weaker" conference, providing impetus for its
    champion to get in.
    5.  Publicity
    6.  Fund raising.  Tickets are generally available only to the alumni
    who give lots of money to the Athletic Department and it's an important
    incentive for money giving.  I had been giving money to Syracuse during
    Coach MacPherson's tenure there and I'm not where close to having given
    enough money to have a prayer of getting tickets to either the Big East
    or NCAA tournament.
    
    In the early days of the ECAC in hockey, before teams played a truly
    balanced schedule, they started a post-season tournament to, in part,
    even out the scheduling inequities.  Those don't exist anymore in any
    college hockey league so there's really no reason to continue it.
    
    John

    > If BobHunt or TTom had_a ounce of intellectual honesty they'd pipe in
    > now 'bout how the ACC determines its Champion (capital 'C') based on
    > the tournament, not the regular season.
    
    I don't care so much about who the ACC says is their champion, but was
    referring more to the seeding.  In spite of what the NCAA guidelines 
    might be, it didn't make much sense to me.  Bob pointed out that the 
    NCAA likes the "hot" team, but even there I don't see how with 
    Carolina struggling against Clemson and Virginia in the tourney and 
    with Duke beating Carolina on the weekend before *at Carolina* that 
    really holds up in their favor either.
    
    Again, no big deal because I don't think that Duke is at any disadantage
    at #2 in the Midwest, but I can see where an argument can be made that
    Carolina shouldn't have got #1.  The stuff about Dean being a whiner
    and all is another story entirely...
    
    glenn
       

    Keep in mind glenn that Carolina is ranked higher than Duke in 
    all the polls.  We also had a higher Power Rating.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    In the interests of intellectual honesty as well, if the Tournament
    Champion of the ACC is the ACC's champion for that year, then the
    regular season title means *NOTHING* and then no school has the right
    to hang a banner from its rafters declaring itself the regular season
    champion.  Means as much as finishing 8th does.
    
    John

    
    ACChris,
    
    Is anything that Feinstein wrote about Dean true?  Is he really like
    that?  Why does Feinstein all of a sudden have something against Smith?
    
    I've heard similar comments about Smith in articles and interviews
    before.....
    
    If you want I'll photocopy the article for you and send it to you?
    
    Cap

    re: .484
    
    Not true John.  Several years ago Jim Valvano got the league to finally
    recognize the regular season champion.  They now receive recognition
    and a trophy.
    
    Anyways a school can pretty much hang anything it wants in the rafters.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

	I just read the article and see nothing wrong with it.  If the 
instances Feinstein refers to are false then he's about as low as a snake's 
belly.  But if the instances are true and he interprets paranoid actions as 
being paranoid, then what's the problem?  You said it yourself Chris, if it 
smells like a duck and it walks like a duck, and it quacks...

				/Don

    Sorry, Chris, can't agree with you.  Using the "duck" logic - if the
    automatic bid, and the notoriety, and the trophy and the nets being cut
    down all happen in a conference tournament and not in a regular season
    then a regular season title is meaningless and doesn't really deserve
    to be recognized.  The regular season is merely a jockeying for
    position for the post season.
    
    I personally prefer a system where the regular season really means
    something, rather than just setting ones self up for a post season
    tournament.
    
    This isn't a bash at the ACC, either.  I applaud the Celtics for not
    hanging divisional championship banners, either, because they don't
    mean much.  I disagree with the Bruins for hanging so many divisional
    championship banners because in the ultimate scheme of things, the
    Adams Division doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot.
    
    John

    I must commend MrT on his abscence. He is staying true to his
    convictions about Mr Feinstein, and avoiding the debate.
    
    frankly T, I didn't think you had it in you - congrats !

If you had 30 to 40 teams in a Conference, and they were in different
`brackets', I could see having a tournament between bracket winners and
runnerups to find a season champ. But with so few teams, and everybody
playing every other team twice, the tournament is a joke. The regular
season should provide the Champ.

What might make more sense:

Since the highlight of the year is the NCAA Tourney, why not have the
first and second place teams for the season get an automatic to the
NCAA, and have the rest of the pack play the end of season tourney for
ranking in case of extra slots in the NCAA, if warranted by overall
record, strength of schedule, etc.

???????
Mike JN

Chris, cut the intellectual honesty crap.

The ACC basketball champion is the winner of the ACC basketball
tournament.  This year, No Carolina is the ACC basketball champion
because they won that tournament. Is that clear?

On the issue of "regular season best record", that's much more of a Tar
Heel issue than anything else. True, Valvano started a conference trophy
for this honor but it has no relationship to who becomes the conference
championship. Chris, you yourself have defended the value of that trophy.

Now, we can all argue on why the ACC does it this way - determine the
conference basketball championship by its tournament - and even if they
will ever change it, should change it, etc. But this is the way it has
always been for the ACC. Is money involved? Sure as hell. Always has
been. But all you get for having the best regular season record is your
name on some trophy and the #1 seed in the tournament.

Because of the way the NCAAs are invited, it matters little outside the
conference who its champion is anyway. Indiana and Ohio State tied. Ohio
State lost its last couple and their a #1. Indiana is a #2. Duke had the
best regular season record, beat No Carolina 2-1 overall and their a #2
while No Carolina is a #1.

TTom

 Yawn.  Yet another classic SPORTS rathole rises from the ashes.
    
 There's very little meat left on this horse's bones, boys ...
 
 The ACC's annual hoops champion is the tournament winner, period.  End of
 story.  Back when the NCAA invited one and only one team from each
 conference, the ACC Tournament was a blood and nails, three-day *WAR* with
 only one army left standing at the end.   The regular season meant
 absolutely nothing except for seeds in the tournament.   The 1970 South
 Carolina Gamecocks were ranked No. 2 in the nation and lost in the
 tournament and went to the NIT.   So much for their regular season,
 wouldn't you say ???
 
 When the NCAA invited two teams from each conference, the regular season
 became slightly more important because it de facto guaranteed a berth to
 the regular season winner in addition to the tournament champ should they
 turn out to be different teams.   In 1976, top seed UNC lost in the
 tournament finale to sixth seeded Virginia and they both went to the Big
 Dance.   The regular season was important to UNC and the tournament was
 important to the Hoos.
 
 Now, with unlimited conference representation, the regular season actually
 assumes even more importance than ever before since most of the so-called
 experts can look at a team and figure out who's in the Big Dance and who's
 not well before the ACC Tournament begins.   
 
 We all knew that Duke, Carolina, State, and Wake were in, that Ga Tech and
 Virginia were on the bubble, that Clemson would have to win the
 tournament, and that Maryland was going home to think about lacrosse
 season.   Simple enough.
 
 So, in retrospect, despite MrT's broken record pissing and moaning about
 the tournament, the ACC's regular season has gone from ... 1) no
 importance whatsoever ... to 2) medium importance ... to 3) life-and-death
 importance.  
 
 Meanwhile, the ACC tournament has gone the opposite direction ... 1) from
 an all-out war ... to 2) one for sure and somebody else ... to 3) nobody
 cares except the bottom seeds.   So where's the beef, T ???  I thought an
 important regular season was what you wanted anyway ???
 
 As for the money-grubbing aspects of the tournament, once again, I say
 BFD.   Nobody was putting a gun to nobody's haid to force them to pay to
 see this thang.   It's a free market, supply and demand society and the
 Southern blue bloods are more than happy to pay for their hoops weekends.
 
 Next rathole ...
 
 Bob Hunt
 
 P.S.  Better be careful, Soup, or we'll send a Paper Doll postcard from
 Pepper to your house begging you to come back and shake some more of your
 baby blue booty.

    
    So the ACC is effectively caught in an identity crisis.  While they
    recognize the tournament winner as The Champ, everyone concedes that
    it's not as big a deal what with the watered-down NCAA field.  That
    leads to less inspired play, leaving the regular-season champ 
    scratching its head as to what the heck the tourney's there for 
    anyway.
    
    Sure, none of this makes a bit of difference as concerns the NCAA
    tournament.  In that game, it's the regular season that matters most.
    But certainly the ACC flag should mean something, right?  While at one
    time a brawl for it all had real meaning as the goal was both the ACC
    championship *and* NCAA represention, that's by the boards now.  The
    ACC is now left with the worst of both worlds: a tournament with little
    meaning as far as the NCAAs go *and* the absence of a clear-cut 
    conference champ in the minds of many.
    
    The fact that the regular season has more meaning now has nothing to do
    with the ACC, but rather the NCAA structure.  The ACC regular season
    now has some importance, up from *no* importance, but only because of
    field expansion.  The PAC-10 and Big-10 regular seasons are obviously
    still *all-important*.  I'd say the post-season tournament formula has 
    become dated, if anything.
    
    glenn
      
    

    
    ACC player of the year..Rodney Monroe N.C.State!
    
    
    B.A._go_pack!

    >I must commend MrT on his abscence [sic].  He is staying true to 
    >his convictions about Mr Feinstein, and avoiding the debate.
    >
    >frankly T, I didn't think you had it in you - congrats !
    
    Frankly, Midnight, congrat's on your betrothal!  Personally, I think
    your [sic] too young to be getting engaged, but aim THRILLED that you
    were able to hook up with your fiancee in a notesfile, this shows a
    certain resiliency on your part given your slippery repugnant noter
    personage.  Seriously, congrat's and may you have a happy marriage and
    many strong healthy children, and may your sons have the moral fiber to
    one day play point guard for Bob.  
    
    Will you invite me to the wedding?
    
    On your other point, I have NO idea what Feinstein wrote about Reverend
    Underachievement, and have no particular convictions about Feinstein.
    He used his contact with CoachK to cajole a handshake agreement out of
    Bob, broke it, and ground out a classic hatchet sensationalist job of
    yellow (pseudo) journalism and becamae a_overnight millionaire.  
    
    Does this impugn this PubicHareBrainedScumBucket's remaining credibility
    in the Smif' matter?  Yes.  Does it mean whatever he wrote ain't true?
    No.  One must isolate what, if any, corroborate substantive meaty stuff
    is in it, and then decide.  Objectively.
    
    re: Almost Close to having a Champ
    
    I get it: The Almost Close has *two* Chimps: A regular season champ,
    and post-season money-grubbing spectacle champ.  Vewy good.  Two champs
    based on two entirely different forms of selection.
    
    One thing, in either case, is fer sure: The Almost Close regular season
    is nothing more than a warm up, a_exhibition season, so to speak.
    
    The effect of the PSMGS has on the NCAA selection committee is without
    significance in this matter.
    
    Big10 Tom

    Cap, I just read the article by Feinstein.  Aside from the tabloidal
    headline, there's not much meat in there.  Feinstein goes as far back
    as the press conference after Dean's only title in relating about 5
    different stories where he (JF) perceived that Dean thought the media
    wasn't being friendly enough.
    
    It rates a big So What?
    
    Dan

   � One thing, in either case, is fer sure: The Almost Close regular season
   � is nothing more than a warm up, a_exhibition season, so to speak.
    
 Seeing as how you're the chief advocate of the "Title Is Everything"
 theory, you'll have to insist then that *ALL* the conferences, including
 the Big Ten, also play warm up exhibition seasons leading up to the Big
 Dance.   Somehow, I'm confident you'll avoid the truth once again.  You've
 never let us down before.   You see, sports fans, once again we have a
 T-theory searching vainly for someone to counterpoint it.   
 
 He insists that the ACC Tournament is competitively meaningless and we all
 agree with him.  Notice that he didn't say it wasn't exciting or that it
 wasn't good hoops.
 
 He insists that it's just for the big bucks and we agree and say BFD. 
 Notice that he ignores the fact that supply and demand economics are
 working at their finest here.
 
 Now he insists that the regular season is just a warm up and so we'll just
 we agree with him one mo' time.  
 
 Let's sit back now and watch how he'll argue some more with himself. 
 Ain't this fun ???
 
 Bob Hunt

    >That
    >leads to less inspired play, leaving the regular-season champ 
    >scratching its head as to what the heck the tourney's there for 
    >anyway.                                                        
    
    Less inspired play?  Pardon me, but I didn't notice any in recent
    years.  I've watched parts of the ACC tourney in the past, and it's
    always been highly competitive action.  I had the pleasure of watching
    the Big East tourney live this year, and there was plenty of
    inspiration to pass around.  Do you really perceive that the players
    aren't trying as hard?  If so, I'd blame the coaches, and not the
    format.  Granted the growth of the importance of the NCAAs has dwarfed
    almost everything else in college hoops, but if a league wants to hold
    further competition, I'm not going to bellyache about my opportunity to
    watch it.
    
    >...a tournament with little
    >meaning as far as the NCAAs go *and* the absence of a clear-cut 
    >conference champ in the minds of many.         
    
    But everyone has agreed that 1) the tourney has a great deal of meaning
    to the teams on the cusp, and as much meaning as a conference champion
    banner to the league as a whole, and 2) the minds of the ACC noters in
    here (Bob, Chris and TTom) all seem to be unified in that the tourney
    produced the clear-cut conference champ - North Carolina.
    
    I fail to see your point.
    
    Dan

>    ... this PubicHareBrainedScumBucket's ...

Gee MrT. I'm glad you don't have any particular convictions about
Feinstein.

TTom

                                              
    > I fail to see your point.
    
    It wasn't clear?  By way of analogy, I'd hate to see baseball go to a
    16-team postseason, where the top three (or four) teams in each 
    division plus the winner of a short, open divisional playoff are
    represented.  To add insult to injury, the winner of the redundant 
    divisional playoff, regardless of its standing in the 162-game regular 
    season, would be granted the privilege of flying the divisional title 
    flag.  
    
    You don't understand my point?  It's a matter of personal preference,
    stating: if teams play each other enough times in a balanced, 
    exhaustive and fair system there is no purpose in duplicating the
    effort with an unbalanced, incomplete, and unfair system for the 
    purpose of producing the same result, no matter how exciting the 
    process may be perceived.  Disagree if you will, but you still don't 
    read me?
    
    And let's face it, since the NCAAs are the big prize and the tourneys
    are secondary, do you really think that Syracuse was putting forth the
    effort that Villanova was?  How about LSU?  You think the Shack would
    have been sitting out if the conference championship *and* a postseason
    berth were at stake?  I could go on and on...
    
    glenn
     

    
    Dan,
    
    I did not put this in as a bash on Smith but rather was astonished that
    Feinstein did a hatchet job on him.  You obviously didn't read the same
    article I did.  Feinstein directly calls Smith extremely paranoid, says
    that at age 60, he plays childish mind games and infers that he is
    extremely prejudiced towards anyone who is not associated or from
    Carolina.  He also infers that Smith is extremely paranoid and
    vindictive.  I'm not saying that Feinstein is right or wrong in this
    matter but he definately was out to paint a bad picture of Smith.  You
    were a big Feinstein supporter from his book about Knight.  Do you
    agree with his assumptions about Dean?
    
    Show me one area in this 1500 word write up where Feinstein is not
    trying to cut Smith down.
    
    If I get a chance, I'll type the article up
    
    Cap

    � ... that at age 60, he plays childish mind games and infers that he
    � is extremely prejudiced towards anyone who is not associated or from
    � Carolina.  
    
 Carolina *basketball*, that is.  Smif' doesn't give a hoot and a half
 about any other aspect of the University Of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
 or the entire Tar Heel State for that matter.
 
 If you recall last year when his loyal subject reported to us that the Rev
 told the alums that, above all else, they should give jobs to his players,
 one could quickly conclude that Smif's alledged prejudiced favoritism
 towards North Carolina stops at *exactly* the last seat on his player's
 bench.
    
 I'd *love* to read Feinstein's article.  We don't get "The National" in
 Charlotte just yet.
 
 Bob Hunt
 
 P.S. One thing Feinstein can't bash Dean on is his tournament threads. 
 Dean was one sharp dressed man in the Queen City last weekend.
 
 Oh, and another thing, after their win over Clemson last Friday when he
 started the 2nd half in a 2-3 zone, Dean denied he had called for a zone. 
 It was a "sagging man-to-man".   The man's exact words.

 I almost forgot one other little juicy tidbit reported in the papers last
 weekend during the tournament ...
 
 Carolina is getting new uniforms and warmups next year.   I read two
 conflicting accounts, however.   The new designer is either Alexander
 Julian *or* Florence Griffith-Joyner.
 
 Juilan is the dude who designed the Hornets' uniforms.   He did a good job
 with those, in my opinion.   He also decked out the Charlotte Knights, our
 AA Cubs minor league team, in all-black with 13 different multi-colored
 pin stripes.  Brutal.   Sports Illustrated did a short piece on them last
 year and ripped them apart.   They were actually worse than any factory
 league softball team's outrageous getups.
 
 Flo-Jo, of course, designed some great women's track suits.   It remains
 to be seen if she can handle hoops fashion.   If we see the Baby Bluesters
 come out next year in one-legged leather and lace, we'll know why to start
 laughing.
 
 Bob Hunt

Cap,

Thanks for the offer to type this in. I'd like to read it. (I'll even
settle for a xerox sent interoffice mail to CEO).

I think it's wonderful irony that Feinstein has successfully united the
Bobby Knight camp with the Dean Smith camp in their assessment of the
author. Didn't he write something about Duke? Personally, having seen him
a number of times on the ESPN reporters show, and he appears to be the
standard editorial-journalist type who is much more interested in his
opinions that anything else.

The talk of Dean's "paranoia" or whatever about us vs them is considered
a virtue among his fans. From the first day in camp (maybe before) it's
all team and nothing but the team, so help them, Dean. However, on his
takl show, it's pretty obvious who he likes (e.g., Jim Valvano) and who
he doesn't (e.g, Duke's K).

TTom

    >By way of analogy, I'd hate to see baseball go to a
    >16-team postseason, where the top three (or four) teams in each 
    >division plus the winner of a short, open divisional playoff are
    >represented.
    
    I'd hate that too, but I recognize that it has nothing to do with a
    conference tournement and the NCAAs.  I see them as separate events
    which stand by themselves.  Sure the tourney results have weight in the
    NCAA selection committee's decisions, but I beleive the mistake you
    make is believing the the NCAA tourney is the only object of college
    basketball in comparing it to baseball's quest for the WS.  It isn't
    and it shouldn't be.
    
    >...there is no purpose in duplicating the
    >effort with an unbalanced, incomplete, and unfair system for the 
    >purpose of producing the same result
    
    I fail to see how the conference tourneys are unbalanced, incomplete
    and unfair.  And the fact is, they often produce a different result.
    
    Having seen Syracuse fail many times in similar situations, regardless
    of whether they occur in tournements or not, I won't hold the format
    against them as you do.  Likewise, the information on Shaq's injury
    necessitated he miss time.  You could go on and on, but just admit it's
    speculation and nothing more.
    
    Dan

    >You obviously didn't read the same
    >article I did.  Feinstein directly calls Smith extremely paranoid, says
    >that at age 60, he plays childish mind games and infers that he is
    >extremely prejudiced towards anyone who is not associated or from
    >Carolina.
    
    Yep, that's the one I read.  To support his assertions, Feinstein chose
    an odd set of data points where Smith was less than gracious with some
    particular member of the media.  I find that Feinstein's evidence does
    not support his opinions and therefore I give it the "So What?".  
    
    For example, Feinstein's first story was how Smith reminded everyone
    that a certain writer claimed that the System would never produce a
    title.  Feinstein placed particular emphasis that these were Smith's
    first workds at the postgame press conference.  He calls it "The most
    obvious example of his behavior".  
    
    Well, if that's the most obvious example, and he's correct that few
    others are weaker, I can only conclude that Feinstein should have just
    editorialized, and left out the weak examples, obvious or not.
    
    And if it's all true that Dean's relationship with the media isn't a
    bed of roses, and that he prefer the friendly Carolina media, well
    knock me over with a feather and hold the New York Times front page...
    
    Dan

  One thing that really kinda boggles my brain cells in this annual 
  hoo-hah over the ACC Tournament is who the hell cares anyway ???
  
  I mean if the ACC schools like it, if the ACC students like it, if the 
  ACC players and coaches like it, and if the ACC fans like it, then why 
  on earth should it not be held ???
  
  Methinks sometimes the Big Ten bigots doth protesteth too much.   
  Everytime an anti-Celtic or anti-Yankee potboil gets a_brewin' in here, 
  their faithful claim that the angry mob is jealous of their success.   
  
  Well, it would certainly seem to this ACC fan that the Big Tenners feel 
  a little green with envy each time this year.   After all, they had 
  *NO* clear cut champion this year, did they ???  Nope, just two schools 
  deep throating each other's sisters.   How exciting ... Big Ten 
  *CO*-Champs.   Ooooh, the shivers.
  
  Bob Hunt

    >You were a big Feinstein supporter from his book about Knight. 
    
    Not really accurate.  At this point in time, Feinstein strikes me as a
    writer who yearns to be a major player (as in mover, shaker, not guard,
    forward) in college basketball circles and has an overinflated opinion
    of himself and his views.  I only know him from his appearances on ESPN
    and his National articles.  The only book I've read is Season on the
    Brink, having passed over his other two (?) for now.
    
    If I'm correct, Season... was his first noteriety, and I found the
    story to be quite believable.  Its been a few years since I read it, so
    that may change.  He was basically an open mike, which at times proved
    embarassing for Knight and at times was compimentary.  It was an honest
    appraisal which basically painted the same picture that many other
    accounts have done (such as SI).
    
    Dan

    .507�  Methinks sometimes the Big Ten bigots doth protesteth too much.   
    
    	Do you remember Wayyyy back when all those *other* schools said "We
    don't need no stinkin' tournament!"." We know who wins our conference!"
    
    	Well, wouldn't you know that all of those *other* conference now
    have their own tournament!
    
    	It's all based on $$$$$...the ACC had the first tournament, and the
    first BIG bucks that came with it!
    
    	Methinks somtimes the Big Ten Bigots arth just Jealous!
    
    B.A.

    
    
    
    
    
    Dan you hit the nail on the head, Feinstein's article was an opinion
    on Dean the man backed by a few mere facts(your claim).  The exact
    same thing can be said about his book on Knight.  It was his opinions
    on what behind the scenes with Knight is all about.  I have never
    denied what was in the book, I have only said that in order to burst
    onto the national scene Feinstein exaggerated what life with Knight was
    like.  In every article that I've ever read by Feinstein on Knight
    since then has been quite complimentary.  As far at the SI
    confirmations, this is not true(p.s I have the article....).  Not once 
    did the SI article confirm anything negative that Feinstein wrote,
    unless you say that he loses his temper and yells at his players(which
    98% of all coaches do anyway).
    
    His write-up on Smith was once again an opinion that was far from being
    complimentary.  Me thinks that if he spent a full season with Smith
    that you would find that he could make Smith look as bad as he made
    Knight look on occasion.  In fact I have no doubt he could.
    
    I'll enter in Feinstein's article on Smith and everyone else can judge
    for themselves.
    
    Cap                           

> Carolina *basketball*, that is.  Smif' doesn't give a hoot and a half
> about any other aspect of the University Of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
> or the entire Tar Heel State for that matter.
 
> If you recall last year when his loyal subject reported to us that the Rev
> told the alums that, above all else, they should give jobs to his players,
> one could quickly conclude that Smif's alledged prejudiced favoritism
> towards North Carolina stops at *exactly* the last seat on his player's
> bench.

The singular evidence you present to "prove" that Dean doesn't give a
hoot about UNC-CH (namely, that he tries to find jobs for his ex-players)
is laughable Ketch.  You gotta do better than this.  Just *gotta*...

    
> I'd *love* to read Feinstein's article.  We don't get "The National" in
> Charlotte just yet.

Oh, I'm sure you would.  And it sounds like Cap is gonna make that possible.
And from the sound of things it's gonna be a real knockout blow for Dean.
Imagine him not bein' nice to the *media*, of all people!  Imagine him
actually offering a counter-blow to the idiot who made the comment his
'System' would never win a Title.  Imagine!

Don't they lock people up for these kinds of things?

 
> Oh, and another thing, after their win over Clemson last Friday when he
> started the 2nd half in a 2-3 zone, Dean denied he had called for a zone. 
> It was a "sagging man-to-man".   The man's exact words.

False.  We played *both* zone and sagging man-to-man in the second half.
Dean's never been afraid to call a spade a spade, and a zone a zone.
The 2-3 we were playing against Clemson could never be confused with any
kind of man-to-man, although Dean did switch off some to confuse the
opposition.  (The key to winning the game, BTW.)


> Carolina is getting new uniforms and warmups next year.   I read two
> conflicting accounts, however.   The new designer is either Alexander
> Julian *or* Florence Griffith-Joyner.

The last I heard on this was that Julian, a Carolina man, was designing
the new uniforms.  The only requirement Dean made was that our traditional
'V' neck be kept.  Also Michael Jordan will be modeling the new uniforms.
(Could choice Dean!)


- ACC Chris
    

                                                         
    > I'd hate that too, but I recognize that it has nothing to do with a
    > conference tournement and the NCAAs.  I see them as separate events
    > which stand by themselves.  Sure the tourney results have weight in the
    > NCAA selection committee's decisions, but I beleive the mistake you
    > make is believing the the NCAA tourney is the only object of college
    > basketball in comparing it to baseball's quest for the WS.  It isn't
    > and it shouldn't be.
    
    Forget the quest for the World Series or NCAA title.  I specifically
    mentioned the divisional (or conference) flag, which you omitted from 
    your extraction and are now pretending that I neglected.  Would you or
    would you not feel cheated if baseball declared divisional (or even
    league) champions via an open tournament, regardless of eventual
    representation in the World Series playoff?  I would.
    
    I ain't a Big 10 bigot, and am certainly not jealous of the ACC or any
    other conference or its tournament.  I don't watch them, really.  I'm
    chomping at the bit for the NCAAs, and I sense that many of the teams,
    players, and coaches are doing the same by the time the regular season 
    ends.  However, I don't begrudge any conference that wants to decide 
    their championship with a post-season tournament.  I just gave my
    opinion on the basis of *quality*, plain and simple...
    
    At least ACChris gave "his and Dean's" (do these two ever disagree on
    anything?) honest opinion on the matter, which was that the regular 
    season should be emphasized even more...
    
    glenn
    

   � At least ACChris gave "his and Dean's" (do these two ever disagree on
   � anything?) honest opinion on the matter, which was that the regular 
   � season should be emphasized even more...
    
 This is what I don't understand.  How is the ACC's regular season ignored
 or de-emphasized now ???   Duke won the regular season title and got the
 No. 1 seed in the conference tournament.  Was there every any doubt
 whatsoever that they would also go to the NCAAs ???
 
 What *more* emphasis could you put on the ACC's regular season that isn't
 there now that would have made any difference at all in the conference's
 representation in the Big Dance ???
 
 Everyone agrees that the tournament doesn't matter as much as it used to. 
 That's fine.   But now folks seem to want to put even more importance on
 the regular season.   How ???   For what purpose ???
 
 Bob Hunt

    
 > What *more* emphasis could you put on the ACC's regular season that isn't
 > there now that would have made any difference at all in the conference's
 > representation in the Big Dance ???
    
    None.  But as Dan pointed out (and I agree with him), there's more to
    college basketball than the NCAAs.  The NCAAs are the biggest thing,
    just like the National Championship is tops in football, but conference
    bragging rights are important too.  In my opinion, those bragging
    rights mean much more in college football than basketball, simply
    because college football conferences make their decision based on 
    season-long preformance, not a post-season tournament that even 
    you've admitted has become de-emphasized. 
    
    Again, you don't have to agree, but what is so difficult about
    understanding this point of view?  No "evidence" from individual
    seasons is required to support this preference; the comparison 
    between regular-season and post-season is intrinsic... 
    
    glenn
    

    Before the article on Dean goes in, the National ranked the best and
    worst NCAA game coaches.... I pretty much agree but I would put Rollie
    ahead of Dean based on the coaching lesson he gave Deano in 85'.
    
    Here it is:
    
    Best
    ----
    
    1. Bob Knight:
       Yes the Mentor himself.  The fact is, if his team contends for the
       Big10 title in the regular season, it almost always does well in the 
       NCAA tourney.  Sure he's lost to underdogs - Cleveland St., Richmond
       - but never with one of his good teams.  One thing worth noting, his
       major outbursts always come in the first half.  During the last five
       minutes of a tight game, no one has a cooler head than Knight.  
    
    2. Dick Tarrant
    3. Pete Carril
    4. Mike Krzyzewski
    5. Dean Smith:
    6. Rollie Massimino
    7. Tom Penders
    8. Nolan Richardson
    
    The worst:
    
    1. Jim Boeheim                                                  
    2. Bill Frieder
    3. Bobby Cremins
    4. John Chaney
    5. Jim Harrick
    6. M.K Turk
    7. Dale Brown
    8. Jud Heathecoate
    
    	

                            DEAN SMITH A WINNER -
                                AND A WHINER

                              by John Feinstein

                         Reprinted without permission


"Dean Smith is the only man in history to win 700 games and be the underdog
in every one of them." - Lefty Driesell

	Actually Dean Smith has won 713 games at North Carolina - and been
the underdog in every one of them.

	His most recent victory, a 96-74 shellacking of duke in Sunday's ACC
tournament final, was a perfect example of why he has won so many games. 
Unfortunately, the tournament weekend was an equally good example of what his
old nemesis Driesell was talking about.

	Perhaps never in basketball history has a person so good at what he
does been so petty about so many things.  Always, he is seeking an edge, and at
the same time he always assumes that everyone else is doing the same thing.  He
categorically refuses to enjoy what he has wrought in 30 years in Chapel Hill. 
He can't resist taking swipes at people even in moment when he should be
reveling in an accomplishment.

	The most obvious example of this behavior came nine years ago, when the
TarHeels finally won the national title in Smith's SEVENTH trip to the Final
Four.  His first comment in the postgame press conference - FIRST COMMENT -
was, "Well, I guess we proved a very bright writer from Charlotte wrong
tonight."  The reference was to a story that had been written FIVE years
earlier, in which the writer had said the same things that made Carolina good 
every year kept the team from being great enough to win a national title.  Five
years later, in the hour of his greatest victory, that was the first thing Dean
Smith could think of to say.

	Always, it is this way.  Smith always has to label people.  If you
aren't from Carolina, then you are from Duke or Virginia or NC State or from 
the Big East or the Big Ten.  Last weekend, Smith kept turning down
Raycom/Jefferson-Pilot, the ACC TV syndicator, in its requests for one of those
brief pregame TV interviews.  On Sunday, the Raycom/JP people, assuming Smith
was turning them down because of time constraints, offered to mike him during
his pre-game radio show. 

	Smith still refused.  Baffled, the Raycom/JP people asked why.  Because
Raycom/JP "doesn't have anyone from North Carolina" among its commentators,
Smith said.  Is he serious?  You bet.  Forget that Billy Packer, a Wake Forest
grad, and Dan bonner, a Virginia grad, are probably the best color commentators
on the planet.  Forget that Len Elmore(Maryland), Tim Brant(Maryland) and Terry
Gannon(NC State) bend over backwards to praise Smith.  That's not good enough. 
Smith wants someone he can control on the air.

	That's Smith.  Everyone has to have a label.  Several years ago, when
Duke beat North Carolina in the ACC Tournament, Smith approached Keith Drum,
then the sports editor of the Durham Morning Herald and now the chief scout of
the Portland Trailblazers, and said, "Congratulations, Great win."

	Smith was implying that Drum, who gets along well with Coach Mike
Krzyzewski, was a Duke guy.  Forget the fact that Drum went to college at UNC.
He liked Krzyzewski.  That made him a Duke guy.

	Smith is particularly paranoid about Duke because it is eight miles
from Chapel Hill and because of its academic reputation.  When Duke is good,
Smith can't use the line about, "Well, we couldn't recruit a lot of their
players," as he has done in talking about other schools in the past.

	Over the years, he often has said to me, "Well, considering the fact
that you went to Duke, you've been very fair to us."  Why wouldn't someone -
regardless of where they went to school - be fair to one of the best programs
in America?  Smith has won consistently with good kids, most of whom graduate,
without any hint of scandal for 30 years.  Why can't he allow that record to
speak for itself.

	Why, at 60, can't he let go of his childish mind games?  On Saturday
after Carolina had beaten Virginia to reach the tournament final, Smith was
asked about a technical foul that had been called on assistant Dave Hanners.
	
	"Who asked that question?", Smith said, peering into the room.  It had
been asked by Jerry Lindquist of the Richmond Times-Dispatch.

	Seeing Lindquist, Smith smiled, "Oh, it's you Jerry.  That figured."

	To Smith it figured because Lindquist covers Virginia.  That makes him
a Virginia guy.  Do reporters have biases?  Of course.  But Smith ASSUMES BIAS,
regardless of the facts. ALWAYS.  The little putdowns and shots never cease.
That same day, standing in the tunnel during the last few minutes of Duke's
victory of NC State.  Smith told several people that Duke got away with more
fouls than any team in the country.  Then when someone asked him what would be
the key to the next day's game against Duke.  Smith answered, "Who's
refereeing?"

	As it turned out, Krzyzewski's mother, wife and oldest daughter could
have officiated and UNC would have won by 20.  But Smith had to get in his
shots.  Even after the rout, after a victory that should have been one of his
most gratifying in recent years.  Smith had his needle poised.  When someone
asked a softball question about where he expected to go in the NCAA Tournament,
Smith said, "Well, I talked to Mike(Krzyzewski) before the game and asked if he
had talked to Tom Butters and he said he hadn't."

	Tom Butters, Duke's athletic director, is on the NCAA selection
committee.  Smith's implication - CLEAR AS DAY TO ANYONE THAT HAS BEEN AROUND
HIM - was that Kzyzewski had a pipeline to the committee through Butters.  The
past two years, Smith has WHINED long and loud about where he has been sent in
the NCAA tournament, telling people with a smile on his face that Butters has
sure done a good job for his school.   Think he's joking?

	Not likely.  Two years ago, when Carolina beat Duke in the ACC Final,
the Tarheels were sent the the Southeast Regional and Duke to the East.  Both
were #2 seeds.  The thinking was that Carolina deserved to be in a region with
Oklahoma as the #1 seed rather than in one with Georgetown, the top-ranked team
in the country.  Smith didn't see it that way.  When Stanford, the third seed
in the East, was upset in the first round by Seina, giving Duke an eventual
round of 16 game against Minnesota, Smith was incensed.  And obsessed.  The Tar
Heels drew eventual national champion Michigan in the Round of 16.

	After they had lost a superb game, several reporters who had covered
the team all season tracked down Smith to thank him for his help.

	"It was a great year for your team," one of them said to Smith.

	"I just wish," Dean Smith said, "that we could have played Minnesota."

	No doubt if he had played Minnesota, Smith would have been the underdog
in that game, too.
    

    All I've ever said is this:
    
    For any league where the champion is determined by a tournament -
    
    	If the tournament champion and not the regular season champion is
    	determined to be the true "champion"
    
    	If the automatic NCAA bid goes to the tournament champion and not
    	the regular season champion
    
    	If the true excitement, cutting down the nets, trophies and so on
    	are awarded/happen based on what happens in the tournament and not
    	in the regular season
    
    Then -
    
    	The regular season championship is, in and of itself, meaningless
    	since the regular season therefore becomes a mere jockeying for
    	position in the tournament rather than something to be truly
    	cherished in and of itself and therefore shouldn't even be
    	recognized as something meaningful
    
    For the record:
    
    I don't feel this way just about the ACC.  I feel this way about
    every NCAA Division 1 hoops conference other than the Big 10, Ivy
    League and Pac 10.  I feel this way about every college hockey league. 
    I feel this way about every professional sport other than major league
    baseball because only in baseball is a divisional title really
    meaningful.
    
    I neither agree nor disagree with the concept of a conference
    post-season tournament but do feel it should not be used as a means of
    redemption from the season past.  In other words, I feel a team should
    get into a national tournament largely based on its regular season
    performance since the regular season to me is a more reliable indicator
    of a team's true ability.
    
    I also believe that the most useful purpose of a postseason tournament
    is to make money, from TV, from ticket sales and above all, as a fund
    raising tie-in.
    
    John

  �  None.  But as Dan pointed out (and I agree with him), there's more to
  �  college basketball than the NCAAs.  The NCAAs are the biggest thing,
  �  just like the National Championship is tops in football, but conference
  �  bragging rights are important too.  
    
 Not according to T they ain't.   If I can paraphrase him, "If the title
 ain't the most important thing, why do they play it then ???"   Throughout
 all the endless Smith-Knight debates and the vicious "Best Conference of
 the Eighties" debate and so on, T stood firm in his belief that what
 happens on the final night of the NCAA Tournament is *ALL* that matters.  
 Period.
    
 And, except for the path taken through the NCAAs, the ACC Tournament has
 almost *no* effect on what happens in the NCAA Titanic Two game.
 
  �  Again, you don't have to agree, but what is so difficult about
  �  understanding this point of view?  
 
 You're right, we don't have to agree and there's nothing at all difficult
 in accepting your view.   There's no doubt that the ACC Tournament is not
 as important as it used to be.   Nobody in the ACC denies this.   What
 very few have neglected to answer is the "So what ???" question.   We like
 it.  It's got tradition, color, sound, excitement, great play, lots of
 hype, cutting down the nets, MVP awards, and so on and so on.   
 
 T's only real beef is that it takes money somehow unfairly from the
 Southern population of the country.   And, based on what I saw last
 weekend, that's an extremely moot point since there wasn't a single soul
 there who was complaining about their financial "loss".
 
 Bob Hunt

    Thanks for entering the article Cap.
    
    My reaction after reading it is simply that I can't believe The
    National would even print such a piece of drivel.  I mean, a
    whole article on a coaches dealing with the media?!  There's gotta be
    something more interesting to write about.  (Like, maybe, UNLV's 0%
    graduation rate for black athletes.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 � In other words, I feel a team should get into a national tournament
 � largely based on its regular season performance since the regular season
 � to me is a more reliable indicator of a team's true ability.
 
 And this is *EXACTLY* what happens in the ACC.
    
 �   I also believe that the most useful purpose of a postseason tournament
 �   is to make money, from TV, from ticket sales and above all, as a fund
 �   raising tie-in.
  
 Agreed.  And it sure was fun.
 
 Bob Hunt  

RE: .517

>    	If the tournament champion and not the regular season champion is
>    	determined to be the true "champion"

This is true of the ACC. I don't think any other conference has its
tournament winner as the conference champion.
    
>    	If the automatic NCAA bid goes to the tournament champion and not
>    	the regular season champion

This is true of the ACC. It's also true of many of the Play-in
tournaments.
    
>    	If the true excitement, cutting down the nets, trophies and so on
>    	are awarded/happen based on what happens in the tournament and not
>    	in the regular season

This is a little gray. If Carolina had beaten Duke in its last regular
season game, I think you might have seen some festivities since the would
have finished with the best regular season record and the #1 tourney seed
and bye. I guess it comes down to a situation like that before people
party like they won something.
    
TTom

 Re: "The National" article ...
 
 For the most part it's much ado about nothing.  But ... the Baby Blue
 faithful cain't deny the Rev's quotes.   What the Rev means is very much
 open to interpretation and Feinstein has simply given his.   Feinstein's
 opinions are no more or no less qualified than any other set of beliefs
 about Smif'.
 
 Believe it if you need it.  If you don't, just pass it on ...
 
 Personally, I don't believe Smif' is paranoid to a fault.  However, he is
 an acknowledged master of whining and pissing and moaning about the gods
 and the fates they have allegedly bestowed upon him.   We all do this to
 some extent, however, very few of us would continue to do so after 30
 years of spectacular success like the Rev has achieved.
 
 Bob Hunt

    50% of the ACC schools will see actions today:
    
    N.C. STATE vs. SOUTHERN MISS.	(N.C. State +4)
    
    If I were a betting man I'd keep my money in my pocket anytime either
    State or Tech are playing.  *Way* too unpredictable.  
    
    Conventional wisdom says S. Miss is on a loosing trend and therefore
    will go out quickly and gracefully.  I don't buy it.  Like Dean [and
    me] say, 'You build momentum during a tournament, not before it.'
    
    Prediction:		State, but this one could be an early upset.
    
    
    DUKE vs. NORTHEAST LOUSIANA 	(Duke + 18)
    
    Tough to be an 18 point favorite, but pity poor UNLV, which goes
    into the Montana game giving up a whopping 36 big ones before the
    opening tap!  Unreal.
    
    Anyway I don't know squat about NE Lousiana but from the looks of it
    they're small and quick, which gives them practically no advantage
    against the very quick and athletic Nerds, er, Blue Devils.
    
    Prediction:	Duke.  (Pretty bold of me, eh?)
    
    
    VIRGINIA @ BYU		(Virginia by 2�)
    
    Yes, that's right folks, Virginia *AT* BYU.  Lousy break for the Cavs
    having to play a road game in a neutral tournament, but hey, they
    don't have an inside main on the selection committee like Duke does
    so you gotta take yer chances.
    
    Everybody knows BYU revolves around 'dust the top of the backboard
    whilst standing on your tiptoes' Shawn Bradley.  Dean recruited this
    kid pretty hard - apparently intrigued by trying to beef up somebody
    who you cain't see if he stands sideways.  Ted Jeffries has been
    thru 2 ACC seasons and played against some of the best big men in
    the USA.  If he's not ready for this kid he never will be.
    
    Prediction:	Virginia to cover.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    
    

    
    I agree, I've not formed an opinion on Dean Smith the man, regardless
    of the article because I have nothing to base my opinions on....
    
    I thought that while the article may or may not be true, that Feinstein
    inferred some heavy critiscisms about Smith as a person.  While he
    didn't come out and directly say what he was thinking, it was easy to
    see what path he wanted the reader to take....
    
    As I told ACChris in a mail message, I think Feinstein is a shock
    writer who's into these types of personal attacks on 'star'
    individuals.
    
    The question that I have is why would he go after Smith in such a way,
    which I unbiasely read as a direct attack on the man's persona.  It was
    not a very attractive article......
    
    Anyone have any guesses.......
    
    Cap

    >As far at the SI
    >confirmations, this is not true(p.s I have the article....).  Not once 
    >did the SI article confirm anything negative that Feinstein wrote,
    >unless you say that he loses his temper and yells at his players(which
    >98% of all coaches do anyway).                                        
    
    What the Feinstein book on Knight left me with is a feeling of what
    it's like to be a player for or other wise associated with Knight.  I
    believe what I read, and I state again that SI articleS on Knight have
    left a similar impression of the man.  I was not referring to one
    particular article, nor did I mean to imply SI was confirming
    Feinstein's book.
    
    I find your analogy that Feinstein's article on Smith is the same as
    his book on Knight.  The depth and goals were quite different, as were
    the methods.
    
    Dan

    > Anyone have any guesses
    
    Here's three (3), just for starters:
    
    1. As part of the fraternity of sports media, Feinstein feels Dean
       doesn't treat them with appropriate respect.  Hence, Dean Smith,
       HoF inductee, needed to be 'put in his place'.  The believer of
       this theory would feel that the media thinks they're bigger than
       the stars and should never be embarassed by someone trying to
       manipulate them into reporting the truth.
    
    2. Feinstein went to Duke and tried his darndest to bring down a
       B10 program.  No doubt in my mind that 'The Book' cost Knight
       a recruit or 12.  Coach K is a Knight disciple.  Doesn't Feinstein
       kinda owe Coach K one at this point?  
    
    3. Money.  Nobody wants to read yet another article about what a great
       person Dean is.  Feinstein will not further his own cause by writing
       an article about what a great person Dean is.  So he goes off and
       writes a bunch of speculative rubbish that will get him notoriety,
       keep him in the limelight, and, ipso-facto, put more green backs
       into his wallet.
    
    I find all 3 theories entirely credible.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
       

    
    One thing that surprised me were the number of direct quotes from Dean
    in the article.  In most of these quotes, it's hard to see how Dean was
    taken out of context and intentionally distorted to make him look
    unflattering.  On the other hand, there wasn't anything all too
    shocking there either.  The quotes and the actions pretty much fit in
    with my impressions of the man, none of which serve to indict Smith or 
    in any way prove him to be without character, but do reveal him to be 
    far from humble and perfect.  I'd say in the entire scheme of things
    Smith resides where most of us have always said he does: he's a 
    basketball coach, no more, no less. 
    
    On the whole, and consistent with Bob Hunt's newfound existentialism, 
    I guess I'd have to agree:  So what?
    
    glenn
    

    >I specifically
    >mentioned the divisional (or conference) flag, which you omitted from 
    >your extraction and are now pretending that I neglected.  
    
    Not quite.  I don't accept the analogy, given the consequences of the
    division title relative to the reason for the conference tournement. 
    You've forcibly equated them.
    
    >Would you or
    >would you not feel cheated if baseball declared divisional (or even
    >league) champions via an open tournament, regardless of eventual
    >representation in the World Series playoff?  I would.
    
    If baseball did that, I'd be upset.  If an amatuer, collegiate athletic
    conference wants to do that, giving me another weekend of exciting
    action which otherwise doesn't exist, I'm happy.  Two different
    situations; two different reactions.
    
    Dan

    Dean Smith Proven Human - Film @ 11!!!

                                  
    > If baseball did that, I'd be upset.  If an amatuer, collegiate athletic
    > conference wants to do that, giving me another weekend of exciting
    > action which otherwise doesn't exist, I'm happy.  Two different
    > situations; two different reactions.
    
    I don't read you: far as I can tell, if the ACC holds the tournament
    for bucks, babes, and FAN-tastic-style basketball action, they can do 
    it without declaring a conference champion.  It doesn't appear that 
    the ACC is hurting any now that its tournament doesn't mean as much as 
    it used to.  Would it be any different if they went all the way, 
    removed the pretense, and just made the thing just one big pre-NCAA 
    blowout?
    
    I don't see the connection between professionalism and amateurism once
    the players take the field, either.  If anything, the amateur ranks
    should be making an effort to cut back on redundant competition that 
    only comes at the expense of the student.  But a championship is a
    championship; I don't think it means anything less to these kids 
    because they're not professionals.
    
    I also don't recall *anyone* saying that conference titles mean
    nothing, only that they mean little in comparing teams/coaches from
    *different conferences*.  How can Bob Knight and Dean Smith be directly
    compared based on conference titles won, when neither has ever coached 
    in the same conference?
    
    I'll also be consistent and state that the ACC post-season tournament
    serves to rob a team like Carolina of the recognition for consistent 
    excellence they've earned within the conference.  Yes, I do think it
    means something to the players and coaches who worked hard all year to
    maintain the best record.
    
    glenn
    

�    1. As part of the fraternity of sports media, Feinstein feels Dean
�       doesn't treat them with appropriate respect.  Hence, Dean Smith,
�       HoF inductee, needed to be 'put in his place'.  The believer of
�       this theory would feel that the media thinks they're bigger than
�       the stars and should never be embarassed by someone trying to
�       manipulate them into reporting the truth.
 
 Maybe, perhaps, could be.  What most, if not all, of the media *and* the
 competitors forget is that both sides exist because of the other.   The
 media needs something to write about and the players need someone to tell
 others about their exploits.    Smith would be nothing without media
 coverage and Feinstein would be nothing without coaches like Smith.   Deny
 access to either side and the whole cheap house of cards comes tumbling
 down.
 
 Aside: That's why I found it astonishing that the Philly media ran Buddy
 Ryan out of town.  They'll be begging to get him to come back next season.
       
�    2. Feinstein went to Duke and tried his darndest to bring down a
�       B10 program.  No doubt in my mind that 'The Book' cost Knight
�       a recruit or 12.  Coach K is a Knight disciple.  Doesn't Feinstein
�       kinda owe Coach K one at this point?  
 
 Doubtful.  This is the most suspect of your three theories.  What does
 Feinstein have to gain by making K look good at Smif's expense ???  And
 through Bob Knight, no less ...   I don't believe Feinstein feels he owes
 anybody anything except next week's story to, most likely, his managing
 editors at "The National".
    
�    3. Money.  Nobody wants to read yet another article about what a great
�       person Dean is.  Feinstein will not further his own cause by writing
�       an article about what a great person Dean is.  So he goes off and
�       writes a bunch of speculative rubbish that will get him notoriety,
�       keep him in the limelight, and, ipso-facto, put more green backs
�       into his wallet.
    
 Really ???   Then you better fire off yet another letter to the editor and
 send it to "The Charlotte Observer" tout suite.  Because they sure as hell
 believe that *everyone* wants to read still more and more glorifying and
 lordifying drivel about the God Of Chapel Hill.   Borders on the outright
 pornographic at times, too ...
 
 Makes great bird cage liner, by the way ...   About as good as that
 blue-colored rag I saw you carry everywhere you went last weekend.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Re: theories on Feinstein...
    
    He really came across as a stuffed shirt when I saw him on TV and he's
    been fairly invisible writing for the National, usually writing easily
    forgotten articles.  On the eve of the NCAAs the National must have
    their college hoops writer author some provocative articles, and I
    think that's what's happening.  One day tear down Dean, the next day
    make it up to him by calling him one of the 8 best game coaches (sort
    of a different opinion than what I read in Sports notes, eh?) but then
    identify the 8 worst coaches in basketball.
    
    You wanna bet that he'll try to keep grabbing headlines for the next
    few weeks, regardless of the progress of the tourney?
    
    Dan

    > Aside:
    
    No big surprise Ketch.  Just look at what the Syracuse paper did to
    Baywhine's (tm) program.  Tell me they wouldn't regret things *big
    time* if he leaves, SU gets probation, and they go through what the
    Kaintuck's did.
    
    The thing is this.  The media is like an alcoholic.  Once they start
    they just don't know when to quit.  They're no doubt trained at an
    early age to print what sells, and when it's sellin' like hot cakes
    it's only time to *pour it on*.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    
    I just want to know what happens to ACChris when they commit ol' Dean
    to the insane asylum for baiting his pet parakeet over a bogus charging
    foul... ;-)
    
    glenn
    

    >Would it be any different if they went all the way, 
    >removed the pretense, and just made the thing just one big pre-NCAA 
    >blowout?     
    
    Probably not.  But even without removing the "pretense" of deciding the
    conference champ, the rendered "exhibition" regular season hasn't lost
    a thing in regards to how the individual games are played or perceived
    from my viewpoint.  Which is why I stress the difference between
    college hoops and major league baseball or professional sports.  If the
    players aren't into the game and regard it lightly (because it's
    perceived as an exhibition, which is what's being bandied about), then
    there's room for complaint.  Is that the case?
    
    Dan

State and Duke won big and Virginia got whooped by a big guy.


NC State 114, Southern Mississippi 85.

Chris Corchianni had 25 pts and 11 assists, Rodney Monroe had 25 pts, and 
Migjen Bakalli came off the bench to go 6 for 6 from 3 pt land, tying an 
NCAA record. Speaking of NCAA records, Corchianni now stands at 1032 with 
at least another game to play - against #3 seed Oklahoma St who blasted 
New Mexico behing Byron Houston's 21 pts and 17 boards. Mr. Keith
Jennings of E Tenn St is finished. They lost to in a good game against
Iowa. So Chris will get to keep this record for a while.

Duke 102-73, NE Louisiana 73.

Duke simply outmanned NE La. Laettner had a ho-hum 22 pts while a couple 
of lesser famed Dukeronis shined: Thomas Hill had 18 pts on 8-14, and 
Brian Davis had 15 pts and 9 rbs. For those that don't follow Duke too 
closely and only know about Hurley, Laettner, Coach K, and their whining, 
might want to catch a glimpse of Davis and Thomas Hill. Duke shot 60% for 
the game. They play Iowa next.

BYU 61, Virginia 48.

Shawn Bradley dominated this game. Pure and simple. 10 block shots. 
Stopped everything in the middle. 

ACC stands at 2-1.

TTom

    Final League Records (all games)
    --------------------------------
    UNC  =  12-4
    Duke =  11-4
    
    UNC beats Duke by 22 in final game season. ACC Champion = UNC.
    
    Chris

    Ammended
    
    UNC  = 13-4
    Duke = 12-4

  �  Final League Records (all games)
  �  --------------------------------
  �  UNC  =  12-4
  �  Duke =  11-4
    
 Are you including the ACC Tournament in this breakdown ???   If so, your
 numbers are off ...
 
 Duke finished the regular season at 11-3 with losses to Virginia, NC
 State, and Wake.  Carolina finished at 10-4 with two losses to Duke, and
 one each to Ga Tech and NC State.
 
 Duke went 1-1 in the tournament and Carolina went 3-0.   That puts Duke at
 12-4 and Carolina at 13-4.   However, that's not a true picture, either,
 since Duke got a first-round bye in the tournament.  Duke actually has a
 "virtual" 13-4 record, too.   None of this proves anything anyway. 
 Carolina is the champion regardless of how many wins Duke has.
 
 In other matters ... Last night's Virginia loss to Brigham Young was pure
 torture.   Ten years ago to the month, Virginia, with shot-terrorist 7-4
 Ralph Sampson, beat BYU in the East Region Finals to earn a trip to the
 Final Four.  Now here it is 1991 and BYU now has the geeky 7-6, Richie
 Cunningham with an overactive pituitary gland, skyscraper and the Wahoos
 spin down in flames.   Comes around goes around, I guess.
 
 Yes, sigh, Shawn Bradley was the major impact player in the game. 
 However, if the stupid damn Wahoos could have just hit maybe a few of
 their outside shots, then young Mr Opie On Stilts would have been a
 non-factor.   Miserable shooting.   Horrid.
 
 The Hoos had the shots.  They had a five-point lead and the ball and then
 swirled themselves right down the bowl hole.   Goodbye, later, sayonara.  
 BYU won't last much longer.   They've gotten their one gift.
 
 See ya next year, Hoos.   Hope you practice your shooting over the summer.
 Especially you, Bryant Stith.   Goodbye, John Crotty, Kenny Turner, Matt
 Blundin, and Dirk Katstra, it's been nice.
 
 Year I of the Jones Regime is in the books.  21 wins, beating Wake in the 
 conference tilt, and an NCAA berth all look good on paper but the truth is
 they underachieved.   Somewhat badly, I might add ...   Life as a Wahoo
 fan is never easy.
 
 Let's go Lady Hoo-ettes.   I want a *NATIONAL* title, ladies.  Nothing
 less.
 
 Bob Hunt

Re: Bob Hunt

I'm glad I'm not a UVa alum... both the football and basketball teams were
terrible disappointments after strong starts.


To ACC Chris:

	Who would you rather have now on the Tar Heels - Bradley or
	Montross?    Isn't it obvious that playing time is the big 
	factor in the development of players?

� Re: Bob Hunt
�
� I'm glad I'm not a UVa alum... both the football and basketball teams were
� terrible disappointments after strong starts.
    
 It's not just *this* year.  It takes a very very strong heart, my friend,
 a very strong heart.  The Hoos have broken mine I don't know how many
 times over the years.   Now I'm all set to see the lacrosse team do its
 usual late season el foldo.
 
 Bob Hunt

    > Who would you rather have on the Tar Heels - Bradley or Montross?
    
    Interestingly enough we were right in there pitching for the services
    of Mr. Bradley, along with the Dukies.  We were in the final 4, along
    with Utah and Duke, even though everybody knew it was an uphill battle
    cause the kid's a Mormon.
    
    Bradley and Montross were ranked #1 and #2 among big men, respectively.  
    As to who I'd rather have, well, I wouldn't have complained about
    getting either of 'em a year ago, so I'm quite happy.  Ultimately Eric
    will develop much more playing for Dean, even though he's not getting
    the minutes this year.  I say this based on Dean's track record and
    also Carolina's style of play, which will force Eric to get out and
    play defense against quicker kids, put the ball on the floor more,
    catch and pass the ball several times each time down the floor, and
    learn to hit the jumper on the secondary break.
    
    Bradley will make a college career out of playing zone and swatting 
    shots and getting the ball in the low post.  In sum, BYU will build its
    team around him, while at Carolina Montross will plug in as a major
    cog in Dean's system.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 I'd rather have Montross than Bradley, too, if truth be known.   I don't
 think Smif' handles Montross correctly but he did play well during the
 minutes he was given in the tournament.   He got a couple of crucial
 baords and he got of couple of tough garbage buckets.   He may not excel
 but he'll be a factor.
 
 Montross has quite a bit more muscle than Bradley and he's got a better
 offensive game.  Bradley is maybe just a little more than a white Manute
 Bol.   Bol has no offensive game whatsoever but Bradley does have a
 baby turnaround jumper.
 
 All comparisons are moot, however, if Bradley comes back from his two-year
 Mormon mission with a lot more muscle and a lot more toughness.   Plus a
 few less freckles ...
 
 Bob Hunt

    
    Bradley has announced his intention to go on his two-year mission
    starting this summer.  With that body, he'll be lucky to come back
    alive.  By default, Dean's probably happy with what he's got.
    
    Any complaints from Dean this morning on his relegation to the East
    Regional, with its number two seed already gone?
    
    glenn
      

Getting to play in College Park is very favorable to State. Considering
the crown that Rodney Monroe is drawing. He's from Maryland and from the
looks and sounds of the crowd, it's almost a home game. It's also
Maryland's home court.

I wonder if Beyheim is going to be in the crowd tonight to watch the Tar
Heels in their mismatch against Northeastern.

TTom

� Getting to play in College Park is very favorable to State. Considering
� the crown that Rodney Monroe is drawing. He's from Maryland and from the
� looks and sounds of the crowd, it's almost a home game. It's also
� Maryland's home court.
    
    Hmmm, yes, I see what you mean.  Similar to, oh, let's say, Virginia
    playing Brigham Young in Salt Lake City.
    
    Some schools get the breaks, some got broken by them ...
    
    Bob Hunt

State didn't quite have the advantage that BYU had, but it's definitely
not just a neutral court. Hopefully, State won't have a letdown, like
against Duke in the ACCs, and the NC State-Oklahoma St will be a good
matchup of the perimeter game of the Pack against Byron Houston and the
very good D of the Cowboys.

TTom

    I'm watching the local sports last night with The Linda and they had
    this reporter up in Syracuse logging a report as the Tarheels boarded
    the bus.  As each and every one of them went by, she would say
    something lik, "Yuck" or "Ew" "Gross."  She was referring, of course,
    to their physical appearance.  
    
    The entire team went by and I started to notice the same thing.  Is
    this, perhaps, the ugliest team ever assembled in NCAA history.  I
    think she was ready to barf when Rick Fox walked by.
    	
    	--dan'l

    Nah ...
    
    Put Patrick Ewing at center and add four of those Chippendales guys and
    you'd *still* have the All-Ugly Team.
    
    Bob Hunt

re: .550

And that's from a guy who went to the same school as Ralph Sampson.

TTom

 Slight correction, TTom ...
    
 Ralph Sampson is the guy who went to the same school as *me*.
    
 Actually, Ralph had kind of a baby face there for a few years.  Then he
 grew a Russell-esque goatee and it was all downhill from that point on.
    
 Ewing has been proof of Darwin's theory since the day he was born. 
 (Footnote: Medvid, Dan'l)
 
 Bob Hunt

    Congrats to Dean Smith and North Carolina basketball for reaching the
    Sweet 16 for the ELEVENTH (11) straight year.  Not bad for a guy who
    supposedly chokes in the NCAA Tournament.  
    
    George Lynch took former prep teammate Aaron Bain to school, then ate
    him for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.  Terrific game by George - his
    best ever as a Tar Heel.  Bain was overmatched, despite being just as
    highly recruited as Lynch was out of high school.
    
    Duke's the only other ACC team to advance to the Sweet 16.  This can't
    really be considered a surprise.  Duke & UNC were the only ACC schools
    in the Top 20 at year-end.  State and Tech are prime examples of the
    'Live by the Jump Shot; Die by the Jump Shot' rule of thumb.  Very 
    difficult to put together a long winning streak when you depend so 
    heavily on the outside shot.  (Last years Tech team was an exception to 
    this normally reliable rule...)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    The last time UNC beat Villanova in a regional final was 81-82. May be a
    good omen. My question is why wasn't rollie able to play at a slower
    tempo,especially with an early lead?
    
    Chris,do you think the Tarheels will have a lot of fans in New Jersey
    next weekend? 

    Yes, I was surprised 'Nova let us score 84 points.  Clearly for them to
    win the game needed to be in the 60's.  Keep in mind that they're young
    and may have gotten caught up with the fast pace despite Rollie's
    pleading.
    
    I'd guess we'll have a good number of fans at the Meadowlands.  NY is
    typically pro-Carolina, given our long history of recruiting in the
    area.  Dean says that he'll play a game in the NY/NJ *every* year from
    now on, strictly for recruiting purposes.  I'd expect E. Michigan to be
    the sentimental favorite for neutral observers.  Same for Temple.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

11 straight years with the best talent money can buy and he hasn't been
to final four in 9 YEARS!!! Now that's pitful!!!!

You're as bas the announcers who waxed over and over again about the
11 straight never mind THAT FOR 9 STAIGHT YEARS HE HASN"T GOTTEN ANY
FARTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!

Despite great seeds, great talent, refs help etc...

mike 

>               <<< Note 17.555 by RHETT::KNORR "Carolina Blue" >>>
>
>    Yes, I was surprised 'Nova let us score 84 points. 
                                    ^^


Was that you I say playing point guard, Chris?   How many did you
score?


8^) 8^) 8^) 8^)
'Saw

    No, with Knorr's legs, they wouldn't let him wear shorts in public. 
    Just ask about 600 ACC fans at the Paper Doll 3/9/91.
    
    8-)
    
    	--dan'l

    Well, ACC Chris, of all the teams I saw this weekend, the Starheels
    (tm) are the deepest, best team around.  UNLV may have a better
    starting 5 - buy no one has a bench like UNC.  And yet to Dean, their
    underdogs...
    
    11 straight years in the sweet 16 - and the only champeenship is from a
    gift mistake by a freshman.  Not a very good record.  With the talent
    Dean gets, he should be guarenteed a sweet 16 berth every year - the
    real coaching comes in him being able to get that talent into the final
    four.  And he doesn't do that consistently.  He's been handed a Final
    Four berth in the East, with early upsets making the road simple for
    him. Beat Eastern Michigan, then either Oklahoma Stat or Temple.  The
    Tarhells have the easiest road to the Final Four.  Let's see if Dean
    coaches with his hands around his neck this year.
    
    JD

    
    re: .558
    
The thing I cain't figure out is who the heck the dan'l medvid is that
keeps puttin' notes in, cause it sure ain't the dan'l medvid *I* met
at The Paper Doll a couple of weekends ago.  

No siree, the dan'l in this notes file clearly would *NOT* give scantily
clad women horsee back rides in front of hundreds of ACC Fans.

No way.  Uh-uh.  


- ACC Chris
    

    Good timing, changing that 'Northeastern will pound the Tarhells'
    p-name JD, seeing's how we obliterated them by 30+!  Heh heh!!11
    
    You know what's funny though is that you comment how Carolina is the
    deepest, best team around, giving Dean 0% of the credit for this.  If
    you saw us at the beginning of the year you wouldn't have been so
    generous.  This team, which is composed of 11 freshmen and sophomores,
    had no chemistry whatsoever.  Dean's managed to mold them into a fine
    playing unit, one that plays excellent team defense, and one that is
    playings its best basketball of the season at the end of the season.
    
    Thankfully we've finally gotten a break from the selection committee
    and haven't had one of our starters go down with an injury (yet).  Both
    of these items are non-trivial when evaluating why we've been out of
    the Final 4 for so long ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Help...
    
    	How many points did Fox have in each of the first two games?
    
    Thx...
    
    B.A.

>    You know what's funny though is that you comment how Carolina is the
>    deepest, best team around, giving Dean 0% of the credit for this.  If
>    you saw us at the beginning of the year you wouldn't have been so
>    generous.  This team, which is composed of 11 freshmen and sophomores,
>    had no chemistry whatsoever.  Dean's managed to mold them into a fine
>    playing unit, one that plays excellent team defense, and one that is
>    playings its best basketball of the season at the end of the season.
    
re ACC Chris:

	He's a Deano Doodle Dandy, a real live Deano Doodle Boy.
	A real live nephew of his Uncle Dean, born where the Dome meets
		the sky
	He's got a Deano Doodle Sweetheart, a real live Deano Doodle gal
	Deano Doodle went to Chapel Hill just to see the DeanDome, Chris
		is a Deano Doodle Boy....



(sung to the tune of Cohan's Yankee Doodle Boy)

'Saw

�	Deano Doodle went to Chapel Hill just to see the DeanDome, Chris
�		is a Deano Doodle Boy....
    
    Deano Doodle went to Charlotte just to see The Pepper, 
    	Soon he was a butt naked Doodle boy.
    
    Bum bum ...
    
    Bob Hunt

Seemed like an awful lot of Seniors playing, though.

Rice, Chilcutt, etc.

Also. Having Freshmen isn't that big of a detriment when they are
considered one of the top recruiting classes. I think we all have to
face up to the fact that Dean either bought or blew his way to the
easiest schedule to the Final Four that was statistically possible.
Let's just pray he has the sense, now, to keep all foreign objects away
from his mouth.... or we could be witness to the `Mother of All Chokes,'
as performed by `Deano and the Dirty Feet'.

Mike JN

    I have to admit that Deano has done a very good job bringing this
    year's Tarheels together. They improved more by far than any other ACC
    team this year, and peaked at the right time. He's done a good job
    blending the talent and developing the young guys at a resonable pace.
    
    Sayonara to my Yellow Jackets for another year. They made a pretty
    decent run at Ohio State, but couldn't get over the hump. Not too bad
    for the ACC's #5 team against the Big 10's #1 though. I'm gonna miss
    Kenny Anderson next year. Despite the acrimony aimed at him in these
    notes of late, Kenny is a real class act and the ACC will miss him next
    year. He IS better than Corciani, just surrounded by two average ACC
    players (Mackey and Barry), a mediocre, one dimensional center
    (Geiger), and a bunch of stiffs and inexperienced players all of whom
    were incapable of catching or anticipating his passes. Even with
    constant double and triple teams, he was second in the league in
    scoring, the leading rebounding guard in the league, and in the top
    five in several other categories. The "man-to-man" defenses in the NBA
    and the fact that he will be surrounded by players with at least some
    talent will probably make him a better pro than college player.
    
    What a difference Dennis Scott would have made this year if he hadn't
    gone hardship! What a difference Anderson would make next year with
    Best and Forrest coming in and another year of experience for the
    entire team. The only seniors this year are insignificant to the team.
    Maybe Kenny will feel that he has unfinished business and come back.
    Not very likely though, he really is a hardship case financially.
    
    Here's hoping for UNC vs. Duke for all the marbles in April.
    
    Chris 

    As the title to my previous note implies, I don't buy the propaganda
    line being waged by the media (which SPORTS_91 noters are lining up
    behind, I'm sorry to say ...) that says Carolina has a cakewalk to the
    Final 4.  
    
    E. Michigan blew out the SEC champs by 20, so I'm certainly not
    expecting a blowout.  I'll grant you that we should be a slight
    favorite to win.  Assuming victory (an assumption I sincerely hope
    we *don't* do) it'll be on to play #3 seed OSU.  Most would agree
    the difference between a #2 and #3 seed is not that great.
    
    Bottom line is the *only* game where UNC will benefit from all the
    upsets is against E. Michigan, assuming OSU beats off Temple.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I thought Bobby Cremins made a very bad coaching move in the Tech - OSU
    game.  Anderson's having a horrible game shooting and he's on the line
    for 2 free throws which could narrow the gap to 1 point.  He makes the
    first (boings around the rim a half-dozen times or so) and then, ...
    
    Cremins calls TIME OUT!!  As soon as he did I said "Bobby, that's what
    you're supposed to do when you want the guy to *miss*!"  Which he did.
    
    For the life of me I can't figure out the need for the TO.  Everybody
    in the universe knew the ONLY sensible game plan at that point was to
    foul ASAP if you couldn't force a turnover on the inbounds.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>No siree, the dan'l in this notes file clearly would *NOT* give scantily
>clad women horsee back rides in front of hundreds of ACC Fans.
    
    Hey Chris, I readily gave old Candice that horsey back ride across the
    stage.  No problem, especially when she leaned down low like a jockey
    and pressed her breasticles in my back.
    
    You, on the other hand, went to the classic UNC four corner delay to
    keep Pepper from your loins.  And you lost anyway.  When you say Dean
    is your idol, you mean it, emulating him in all facets of life
    including womens. 8-)
    
    And did you see me work that pole?  I was better than Orlando Magic
    Johnson!  The Tarheel fans were cheering because they only get that
    kind of action from their sisters.  
    
    I even found a dollar bill in my underwear when I got home!
    
    	--dan'l

    Chris,
    
    I must admit that I find your "Media is to BLAM" crusade extremely
    funny.  I've been rollward for over a week now.   Keep it up.  it's
    F-U-N !!!!!
    
    You're even beginning to sound like the paranoid Dean Smith clone...
    
    JD

    > UNC four corners delay
    
    In retrospect I shoulda gone uptempo and gotten it over with.  But at
    the time I gotta say I had no idea she was gonna institute such
    full-court aggressive pressure!
    
    I think she went to the BobKnight school of sportsmanship too, given
    her blatant lying and treachery ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    > I must admit that I find your "Media is to BLAM" crusade extremely
    > funny.  I've been rollward for over a week now.   Keep it up.  it's
    > F-U-N !!!!!
    
    It's too funny, JD.  The best part is this is the same guy who along 
    with Dean has been pissing and moaning about Duke's seeding and route 
    to the Final Four for the last five years now.  Bottom line is that 
    Duke justified their seeding by reaching the dance four out of those 
    five years.  If Carolina doesn't, it's we SPORTS noters who've been 
    taken in like lambs to the slaughter, though.  Loyal Dean followers
    have learned better...
    
    glenn
    

    Chris R,
    
    	I'm behind you in wishing/hoping Kenny A stays and I don't think
    anybody here has BLAMMed(tm) Kenny for anything.  Rather, it is the
    Dick V's, the papers, et al who have made him into a demigod!
    
    I do question your thoughts behind the statement that " he really
    is a hardship..." comment.  While I have absolutely no datistical
    (tm) information about his/his family financial situation, I can
    tell you that he was paying ~$2,200.00 per year tuition at Archbishop
    Molloy.  They don't do scholarships.  At GT. he's on a full ride,
    right?
    
    My bet is he's not really a hardship but he's certainly interested in a
    $3million - $5 million multi-year contract.  
    
    Hey, I'd like that kind of $$$ too!
    
    Kev
    

    My inside contact at Tech reports that Kenny A is going *bald* due to
    tremendous stress.  His mother is very sick and, combined with being
    very poor, is not getting the best medical care money-can-buy.  Throw
    in the pressure of carrying a Division I basketball team (in the brutal
    ACC - a conference loaded with top-quality talent at his position),
    approaching final exams, and the microscope that's been on him all year
    and it's not difficult to figure why he hasn't been playing
    particularly well.
    
    I think Kenny is far better than what he's shown and, given the right
    situation (*always* the key for a kid coming into the NBA) will be a
    great one.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    ACChris,
    
    NC should only be favored slightly over E. Michigan????  That's the
    funniest line I've heard all year.  Presently the Heels are favored
    by 13 and no other game is even close to that.  If the Heels don't make
    the final four this year, it will go down as Dean's 2nd biggest failure
    (of course losing to IU in 1984 was his #1 failure but he was going up
    against a superior coach....)
    
    Cap

I'm not sure how much of this Dean bashing is to ride ACChris and how
much is serious.  However, 11 straight years in the sweet 16 is a very
impressive accomplishment and something NC should be proud of.  Its very
difficult to avoid the occasional early slip-up, just ask Indiana, Syracuse,
etc.  Now if you want to bash Dean for underachiving and never making it
to the final four with top quality teams, that fine.   

NC really has had a cake walk so far and to the final 8.  The Okla St.
game isn't a cake walk but still should be a easy victory.  Although, this
is probaby one of the easiest paths to the final four in memory, they still
would have to win 4 the games.