Conference 7.286::sports_91

    
    
    Mario skated yesterday for the first time since the 
    preseason.  He even took a few shots.  He says he felt
    great!
    
    
    Charlie

    
News on Pens/Minnesota trade:
    
Since the Taglianetti/Murphy for Johnson/Dahlquist trade,
Pgh. is 4 wins & 1 loss, Minn. is 0 wins & 4 losses.
Taglianetti(paired with Coffey) is +5 w/ 3 assists.
Murphy is +7 w/ 1 goal, 2 assists.
Johnson & Dahlquist are scoreless; JJ is +1, CD even.
 
Matt Wrbican, Special Project Archivist, University Archives, CMU
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA  15213 USA>>>>>>>>
    
    I saw Murphy play for the first time in a Pens uniform last week
    when the Pens destroyed Detroit.  He pairs up *very* nicely
    with Coffey, especially on the power play.  He and Coffey appear
    to trade off running the power play.
    
    Charlie
    

    I was just reading in the paper how Rick Ley is now blaming the
    clubs inconsistency on too many unsigned players.  (Francis,
    Cote, Crossman, Krygier, [maybe Boston can pick him up, ha ha!]
    Shaw, Tomlak, Wilson and Babych).  Can't wait to see what he
    blames it on next.
    
    BTW, Does anyone know what station the All-Star game is going to
    be one?  I know Sportschannel will air it the day after.

�    I was just reading in the paper how Rick Ley is now blaming the
�    clubs inconsistency on too many unsigned players.  (Francis,
�    Cote, Crossman, Krygier, [maybe Boston can pick him up, ha ha!]
�    Shaw, Tomlak, Wilson and Babych).  Can't wait to see what he
�    blames it on next.
    
As usual Joann, your paper only reports half the story 8^)

Let's go back to the Scott Young trade.  Prior to that point the contract
business had been very hush-hush, with no one daring to mention it.

Then the Whalers trade Young to Pittsburgh for Brown, which IMO was
a very good move.  Brown has fit in very well...

Now, after getting traded Young decides to tell the reporters what's
really going on.  He says that the team is very upset over the 
Francis Captain thing, and that the contract problems are causing a
great deal of unrest, and uncomfortable feelings in the clubhouse.
He said something like you can't concentrate because you know you're
not under contract.  Other players since have mentioned fearing having
an off night because you feel as if your value goes down.

Anyway, after Young spoke out, it was pretty quiet for a week.  Then,
after getting their asses kicked to the Arctic Circle and back on their
swing through Alberta, Ley comes out and says that the problems are
contracts.

Then, a couple of days later, Eddie Johnston comes out and says that's
not a big problem.  The players are afraid to say much of anything,
considering they have to practice with Adolf Ley everyday, and
the few comments that do come out are along the lines of what I mentioned
above.

After EJ makes his statement, Ley says (in today's paper I think) that
contracts aren't the whole problem.  Of course, Richard Gordon, the
owner is saying the same thing.

So, what I see is Ley trying to keep all the brass happy while this
hockey team goes to Hell in a Bucket....


Did have a good win last night over Vancouver though....

'Saw

    'Saw,
    
    What do you expect from a Boston paper?  8^)
    
    Okay, so if your job is in jeopardy you play like sh!t?  Nah, I don't
    think so.  I would think that you would go out and play your hardest,
    to make pretty damn sure that you still HAD a job.  Besides, maybe
    the Whaler players should look at it from this perspective....Johnston
    lets their contracts lapse and what happens:  free agency.
    You think a team wouldn't mind picking-up Ron Francis?  Doug
    Crossman?  Dave Babych?   A case in point:  Glen Wesley from the Bruins
    is playing out his option year because he wasn't satisfied with the
    money that was offered him.  He thinks that maybe the end of the year
    another team will offer him big bucks....but the worst part is that
    he's been playing like a stiff!  Now does he really think some NHL
    team is going to pay him a large sum of money????  Besides, he couldn't
    put the puck in the Atlantic Ocean.
    
    What also amazed me was Ley coming out and saying he told Johnston
    *DON'T* sign the players!!!!!  Talk about a slap in the face.  
    
    And how is Ulf Samuelsson?  I was watching the Edmonton game and they
    said he had a groin pull.

�    
�    Okay, so if your job is in jeopardy you play like sh!t?  Nah, I don't
�    think so.  I would think that you would go out and play your hardest,
�    to make pretty damn sure that you still HAD a job.  Besides, maybe
�    the Whaler players should look at it from this perspective....Johnston
�    lets their contracts lapse and what happens:  free agency.

OK, I didnt' mean to imply this.  What I meant, and what the players
have said is that in this situation you feel as if you're under a 
microscope.  You have a bad game and you're conscious of your value
"dropping"....

If I had my boss looking at me through a microscope in here, I couldn't
function.  I'm sure it's like that for some of the players....


�    You think a team wouldn't mind picking-up Ron Francis?  Doug
�    Crossman?  Dave Babych?   A case in point:  Glen Wesley from the Bruins

I think Francis, despite losing his C is the franchise player on the
Whalers.  He's always been a very classy act, both on and off the ice.

Crossman is a band-aid.  He's 30 years old, and a defensive liability.
The Whalers desperately need a big defenseman to go with him, and
to fill in the gap that Ulf is leaving since he's not been 100% this
year.  (Until lately, healthy yes, but playing up to 100% no).

Babych is getting older, and he's hurt know.  When he's on though
he's on.
    
�    What also amazed me was Ley coming out and saying he told Johnston
�    *DON'T* sign the players!!!!!  Talk about a slap in the face.  

Ley is an asshole.  I know that Gordon was not really impressed with
Ley in the coaching interviews, but that pressure from within the
organization got him the job.  I have a feeling that if this team
doesn't finish is 2nd place or higher, we'll see a new coach for the
Whalers -- one who has never been associated with the organization --
next year.
    
BTW - where's Terry Crisp these days???????


�    And how is Ulf Samuelsson?  I was watching the Edmonton game and they
�    said he had a groin pull.

Yeah, but haven't heard about his condition much.  They didn't say much
last night except that he's day to day.....

'Saw

    And I quote, "There's no way I'm running 'round a track in April...
    Too damn cold."  From the one who never goes back on a bet, Dinz.

My mom was telling me about a story she heard yesterday.  I've forgotten
the player's name, but I'm sure some of you must know it.

A player in the NHL recently lost the tip of his finger due to a hockey
injury.  (Not sure of the details).

Well, it seems that a radio station in the team's city decided they
were gonna have a lottery to see who'd get the tip of the guy's finger.

Needless to say the player was very upset, and when I heard it I was
too.

That's really disgusting and immature, and I just wondered if anyone
else out there had heard of this travesty?

'Saw

    
    Dins you better get your wimpy butt out there on that track! 
    I WILL SEE THIS! You can take that to the bank!
    
    
    Steve

Even though I'm a Whaler fan I've got to agree with everyone else.

I heard ya make the bet Dinz, and I know that Jeff Riggen hasn't
blown away the old file yet ;^)

I'll have my camera ready too 8^)

'Saw

    
    Re: .8
    
    Now how the hell did a radio station manage to get the tip of some
    hockey players finger you ask?
    
    "Pssssst.....Hey buddy.....wanna make a few bucks??  Ya see, I wuz
    at this here hockey game last night and I picked up this tip...."
    
    Sickstah
    

    'Saw,
    	I think it was Paul Cavallini. I guess his agent happened to be
    listening to the talk show and called up Cavallini to let him know.
    Gee,pretty sick.I can see the possibilities if a few teeth go
    flying,that is if any hockey players have any left.
    
    Nothin' amazes me anymore.
    
    MikeL
    

    
    If the guy lost the tip of his finger, it's his fault.  He should keep
    better track of it.  I can't blame the guy 100% though, I've done it
    myself.  Just the other day I left one in my jeans and they went
    through the washer.  Took me all day to find it.  I hate when that
    happens.

    
    Mike Swillbury in his infinite wisdom has selected of all player's
    to select to the All-Star team, Chris"my home adress is the penalty
    box" Nilan. I think I am going to be sick. 
    
    
    
    
    Steve

    re -.1
    	Add this one and you should puke: Garry Galley on defense.
    5 Bruins.
    
    Andy

Nothing like a real homer, eh?


I've been doing a lot of thinking about this method of choosing All-Stars.
Personally, I'm against fan balloting in any sport.  

But there is one thing that is really evident here in hockey.  A couple
of Bruins fans have told me how the ballots are really pushed at the
Garden.  Conversely, quite a few people who I know attend the Civic
Center regularly say they coulnd't find an All-Star ballot to save
their lives.

I think that voting shows this also.  *NOT* that any one of the
Whalers has had an all Star season (excepting Verbeek I think, whom
Millbury had the smarts to pick), but it's the who concept.

What you're really ending up with is a popularity contest.  I've never
been a fan of that.  Personally, I'd rather see the players vote for
each other, with the exclusion that you can't vote for anyone on your
own team.  That would produce a much better mix in my opinion....

JMHO,
'Saw

    RE: last few
    
    Well 'Saw the last time I was at the Hartford Civic Center there were
    two fans there who must've had a STACK of ballots about 3 inches thick.
    I don't think they were voting for Bruins.  Besides how can you say
    Milbury's a homer when Muckler picks Ranford over Belfour??  And what
    about Chicago who MAILS out ballots to their fans?  Talk about pushing
    people to vote. And lastly; Milbury is required to have one player
    from each team.
    
    Milbury used an analagy last night on the new on why he picked the
    way he did:  you don't send all running backs to the Pro Bowl.  He
    didn't use criteria such as points, +/-.  He also took into
    consideration off-ice leadership, courage, etc.
    
    In regards to Paul Cavallini losing his finger, that was incurred
    December 22, against Chicago, when he was hit with a slapshot by
    Doug Wilson.  I don't think that the finger was lost because Cavallini
    was quoted in THN as saying he pulled his glove off and put his finger
    back on, and then freaked out.  Surgery to re-attach the finger was
    unsuccessful.
    
    Hope this helps.

    All Star Games, Halls of Fame, fan voted awards and to a certain
    extent, post season awards are popularity contests.  If you look at
    these things and remember that, you'll save yourself many an ulcer.
    
    John

>    Well 'Saw the last time I was at the Hartford Civic Center there were
>    two fans there who must've had a STACK of ballots about 3 inches thick.
>    I don't think they were voting for Bruins.  Besides how can you say
>    Milbury's a homer when Muckler picks Ranford over Belfour??  And what
>    about Chicago who MAILS out ballots to their fans?  Talk about pushing
>    people to vote. And lastly; Milbury is required to have one player
>    from each team.
 
Yes, I know he's required to do that.  And just becuase Muckler's a 
homer, doesn't Milbury less of one 8^)

Regarding that stack of ballots, that's why I abhor this system.  But
even a stack three inches thick isn't going to sway the votes much with
the sheer volume of ballots received.  Nevertheless, the disparity of
Chicago mailing ballots, Boston pushing them, and the Whalers organization,
as usual having there clueless heads firmly inserted in rectum, shows
just how hokey this whole thing is....
   

>    In regards to Paul Cavallini losing his finger, that was incurred
>    December 22, against Chicago, when he was hit with a slapshot by
>    Doug Wilson.  I don't think that the finger was lost because Cavallini
>    was quoted in THN as saying he pulled his glove off and put his finger
>    back on, and then freaked out.  Surgery to re-attach the finger was
>    unsuccessful.

Yeah, that's it.  I know the finger wasn't lost (it'd be easy to find
on the ice 8^)) but the whole radio thing was in wicked poor taste.
    


As to the All Star game, I'd much rather see the players vote for two
full squads, and have the results form the All Stars.  Then let the
homer coaches pick to fill like now 8^)

'Saw

	Chris Nilan an All-Star...who would have thunk it.  It's a weird pick 
for sure.  Milbury did give some good reason for picking the likes of Nilan
and Skrudland for that matter.  A quote form the Hearld, "I felt last years
12-7 deal was an inaccuare showing of our game.  The league basically has 
avoided looking at a physical player and that's a gross oversight."  He has
a point and it is good to see someone not pander to the wimpy, hockeys 
too violent, group who'd rather watch a Sunday men's no check league then 
real hockey.  He also said he took into account "qualities such as leadership,
courage, and commitment" which would certainly include Nilan.  

Mc

    
    Could this also be Millbury's way of thumbing his nose at the
    establishment for the blatant snub they gave him for Coach of the year?
    
    Dickstah
    

I know a guy who lost the first joint of his left forefinger to a
hedgeclipper, and before he could grab it... the dog ate it! True.

Also know a cowboy who does team roping whose thumb got caught in the
rope when the rope was stretched between the horse and the steer. Sliced
it right off. It was successfully reattached, however.

So there
Mike JN

    	One coach shouldn't pick the remaining players.  Each coach
    should vote for the remaining team with the stipulation he can't pick
    his own players.  But since the NHL All Star game ranks right up
    there with the NFL Pro Bowl for excitement, who cares.  Personally
    I think that either last year's Stanley Cup champion or this year's
    points leader should play the Commies.  The league could have a
    Glasnost Cup or something to reward the victor.
    
    				/Don

    
    Re:  Dog eats finger
    
    Dog musta been a "pointer."
    

Slasher,

While the All-Star game ranks up there with the Pro Bowl in terms of
excitement, I think you've got to keep it in perspective.

The Pro Bowl suffers from two problems:

	a) it is played after the Super Bowl, so it's inherently anticlimactic
	   and people say "who cares"

	b) because of the variety of 'systems' the teams come from, there
	   tends to be a vanilla offense and a vanilla defense, thus no
	   excitement.

However, the Pro Bowl players are chosen by their peers, and as such,
I feel it's the "proper" mix of players.


The NHL All-Star game comes in the middle of the season, so it shouldn't
suffer from a) but unfortunately, the fans choose the teams, and thus
it degenerates into a heinous parody of the game, a popularity contest.
The game itself should be a fairly good game because the variety of
"systems" isn't as broad as football.


The fans will not, inherently, pick a great defensive defenseman, one
who excels at defense in his own zone, who is good in the corners, and
can muscle an opposing center out of the way.  While there may be
astute fans out there who appreciate and would vote that way, they
are vastly overwhelmed by the multitude of uninformed morons who 
think player A is cute, or player B is fast etc etc etc...

On the other hand, it's my contention that a player who was had to
go up against another "unsung" competitor will be in a better position
to make that judgement....

'Saw

    re: .19
    
    'Saw, I guess you missed my point: No matter who the Coach is;
    they're both going to be biased and pick more of their own players
    so arguing about it is a moot point.  Besides, its not like they
    pick the whole team.  And, if I'm not mistaken, each club is supplied
    with the same number of ballots, as Chicago ran out of them before
    the voting deadline.  As an item of interest this is the first year
    that a Chicago player has been voted to start on the All-Star team
    since the fans started voted five years ago. (Chris Chelios)
    
    re: .21
    
    Dickstah,
    
    I don't think its a snub as the Sportswriters pick the winners
    for all the Awards. 

    It's an All-STAR game.  Operative word being STAR.

    	At least with Nilan in there we might see a couple of good scraps.

    
    HAHAHAHAHAHHAWKHAWKHAWK (tm)
    
    Dat one was da Laugh of the Day (LOTD) for me!
    
    Dickstah
    

    re: .27
    
    The operative word may be star, but each individual has his own
    criteria for what a star is.  Some coaches look strictly at
    goals, assists, +/-; others look in different areas.  There are
    plenty of things that a player in any sport does that might
    not be reflected through stats.  If you look only at numbers
    you miss the 'big' picture.

    My point about All-STAR games is that they are basically an exhibition
    for the fans.  Why not let the fans see who they want to see.  STARdom
    is associated mainly with name recognition.  How they got that
    recognition is basically irrelevant.

    I like the idea of having the coaches vote without voting for their
    own players....

    Muckler shoulda picked Jay Miller. :-)
    
    I heard the news about the Bruins selections while I was in the pro
    shop after the game last night.  When I showed surprise at Nilan's
    selection, the guy says to me, "I guess Milbury wanted the best fighter
    in the Wales Conference."  I had to quickly remind him he wasn't even the
    best fighter on the Broons.  I can't argue with Milbury's other
    selections though.  All coaches do it don't they?
                            
    					Steve

    Caught glimpses of the B's-Nordicks game last night. Interesting to
    see the Broons in their home white and the Nords in their
    road blues in Quebec. Anybody know why?
    Kind of amusing to hear the Quebec fans substituting "Bleep
    you,Millbury" instead of "let's go Nordique or whatever the French
    equivalent is" to the accompinament(sp) of the organ. Geez, the
    Anglais' inflection of the Quebec fans sounded pretty good.
    
    MikeL
      

�    Caught glimpses of the B's-Nordicks game last night. Interesting to
�    see the Broons in their home white and the Nords in their
�    road blues in Quebec. Anybody know why?
    
    According to a radio report this morning, the Nordiques requested it. 
    The B's will be in black when they face the Nords at the Garden.

    
    Yup, glad to see those Quebec fans reacted "with more class" than they
    said Milbury had by not picking LaFleur.  Mike didn't seem too phased
    by it.
    
    Now, about this all-star thing.  If I were a big mucky-muck with the
    NHL, the bottom line for me would be exposure to a HUGE, potential
    market.  Why not include some of the lesser known but more typical
    players?  I have to applaud Mike for doing things differently.  I love
    it when people buck the system!!  :-)  Although Nilan???  I dunno about
    that one.
    
    Just my $.25 (inflation)
    
    Cath

    re: .35
    
    Its commonly referred to as "reverse jersey night"  They do it more
    often in the AHL; and the Nords/Habs do it occassionally too as they
    did this past Saturday night.
    
    

 SAY IT SLOWLY: Chris Nilan an All-star?
 by Russ Conway

Chris Nilan a NHL all-star? That's like giving Sadam Hussien the 
Nobel peace prize.

A reward for being a bully? Come on. Just what hockey needs for 
it one showcase game of the year, a wildman who's made a career 
for himself beating up opponents.

The only purpose Nilan will serve will be for a pressbox pool, 
guessing the minute and period the 1st NHL All-Star game fight in 
25 years will break out.

An all star game is just that, an exhibition for stars of the 
game who have earned special recognition based on talent. Nilan's 
one and only talent, as his 6 goals and 15 pts and 190 minutes 
reflect this season, is thuggery.

Wonder how former Bruin Rick Middleton would feel about Nilan 
being an all-star?

Middleton was a bona-fide high scoring NHL All-star known for his 
good sportsmanship. A flash and dash player who if you'll also 
recall, had the butt end of Nilan's stick force-fed into his 
mouth a few year back.

Nilan's sudden oral surgery extracted several od Middleton's 
front teeth.

We're not talking about the addition of a O'Reilly or a Stan 
Jonathan or Wayne Cashman to the all-star team. For openers, all 
3 could play hockey. They had skill, knew how to skate, pass and 
score. They weren't cheap-shot artists.

5 right wingers including Nilan are on Millbury's all-star team, 
just 2 left wingers.

So what left wingers were snubbed? Rangers' John Ogrodnick is 
one. He's scored 20 goals and has 31 pts. Devils' Kirk Muller 
with 13 goals and 31 pts? Or Buffalo's Dave Andreychuk with 17 
goals and 31 points?

Given the chance, would Sinden trade Nilan straight up for any of 
the three? In an instant, that's how fast. Any one of them.
Better yet would the Rangers' deal Ogradnick for Nilan? Or NJ 
trade Muller for Nilan, or Buffalo part with Andreychuk for 
Nilan? Sinden has a better chance of getting hit by lightning.

Nilan belongs in the NHL all-star game no more than Rosanne Barr 
should sing it's national anthem.

�Nilan belongs in the NHL all-star game no more than Rosanne Barr 
�should sing it's national anthem.


Yeah, but Roseanne sure is good a live call-in phone sex.

Or better yet, sitting on Hawk's face.  Or maybe Nilan should
sit on Hawk's face....

Or maybe I should stop noting until the 'shrooms wear off and reality
re-asserts itself....


'Saw

From: [email protected] (tom wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Organization: Univ. of Central Florida, Orlando
 
Some stats through 1/6.
 
Patrick Division       TOTAL                 HOME              AWAY
TEAM                    W  L  T PTS  GF  GA   W  L  T  GF  GA   W  L  T  GF  GA
---------------------- --------------------  ----------------  ----------------
New York Rangers       24 13  7  55 168 134  12  5  4  87  60  12  8  3  81  74
Philadelphia Flyers    21 19  6  48 151 147  10  8  4  73  70  11 11  2  78  77
New Jersey Devils      19 16  9  47 164 147  13  3  5  90  63   6 13  4  74  84
Pittsburgh Penguins    22 20  3  47 189 169  13 11  1 106  89   9  9  2  83  80
Washington Capitals    20 22  2  42 145 144  10 10  1  76  75  10 12  1  69  69
New York Islanders     15 21  5  35 118 144   9 11  2  61  72   6 10  3  57  72
 
Adams Division         TOTAL                 HOME              AWAY
TEAM                    W  L  T PTS  GF  GA   W  L  T  GF  GA   W  L  T  GF  GA
---------------------- --------------------  ----------------  ----------------
Boston Bruins          21 13  8  50 147 138  11  5  3  79  49  10  8  5  68  89
Montreal Canadiens     22 17  5  49 143 136  12  6  2  72  51  10 11  3  71  85
Buffalo Sabres         16 16  9  41 140 132   9  6  6  84  59   7 10  3  56  73
Hartford Whalers       18 20  4  40 120 140   9 10  3  64  68   9 10  1  56  72
Quebec Nordiques        9 27  7  25 120 192   4 12  4  53  87   5 15  3  67 105
 
Norris Division        TOTAL                 HOME              AWAY
TEAM                    W  L  T PTS  GF  GA   W  L  T  GF  GA   W  L  T  GF  GA
---------------------- --------------------  ----------------  ----------------
Chicago Blackhawks     28 14  3  59 147 118  15  6  2  81  61  13  8  1  66  57
St. Louis Blues        22 13  6  50 148 122  11  5  5  74  58  11  8  1  74  64
Detroit Red Wings      20 19  4  44 146 151  16  6  0  92  68   4 13  4  54  83
Minnesota North Stars  11 25  8  30 131 157   7 12  4  75  73   4 13  4  56  84
Toronto Maple Leafs    12 27  3  27 120 167   7 15  1  72  98   5 12  2  48  69
 
Smythe Division        TOTAL                 HOME              AWAY
TEAM                    W  L  T PTS  GF  GA   W  L  T  GF  GA   W  L  T  GF  GA
---------------------- --------------------  ----------------  ----------------
Calgary Flames         23 14  5  51 176 130  12  7  1  90  56  11  7  4  86  74
Los Angeles Kings      22 14  5  49 165 135  12  6  3  92  68  10  8  2  73  67
Edmonton Oilers        19 18  2  40 128 122  13  8  1  65  56   6 10  1  63  66
Vancouver Canucks      18 23  3  39 140 163  10  9  1  65  65   8 14  2  75  98
Winnipeg Jets          13 24  8  34 144 162   9 10  3  77  76   4 14  5  67  86
 
Overall Standings
 # TEAM                   GP   W  L  T  PTS   PCT   GF  GA  +/-  GFPG GAPG
-- ---------------------- --  -- -- --  --- -----  --- --- ----  ---- ----
 1 Chicago Blackhawks     45  28 14  3   59  .656  147 118   29  3.26 2.62
 2 New York Rangers       44  24 13  7   55  .625  168 134   34  3.81 3.04
 3 St. Louis Blues        41  22 13  6   50  .610  148 122   26  3.60 2.97
 4 Calgary Flames         42  23 14  5   51  .607  176 130   46  4.19 3.09
 5 Los Angeles Kings      41  22 14  5   49  .598  165 135   30  4.02 3.29
 6 Boston Bruins          42  21 13  8   50  .595  147 138    9  3.50 3.28
 7 Montreal Canadiens     44  22 17  5   49  .557  143 136    7  3.25 3.09
 8 New Jersey Devils      44  19 16  9   47  .534  164 147   17  3.72 3.34
 9 Pittsburgh Penguins    45  22 20  3   47  .522  189 169   20  4.19 3.75
10 Philadelphia Flyers    46  21 19  6   48  .522  151 147    4  3.28 3.19
11 Edmonton Oilers        39  19 18  2   40  .513  128 122    6  3.28 3.12
12 Detroit Red Wings      43  20 19  4   44  .512  146 151   -5  3.39 3.51
13 Buffalo Sabres         41  16 16  9   41  .500  140 132    8  3.41 3.21
14 Washington Capitals    44  20 22  2   42  .477  145 144    1  3.29 3.27
15 Hartford Whalers       42  18 20  4   40  .476  120 140  -20  2.85 3.33
16 Vancouver Canucks      44  18 23  3   39  .443  140 163  -23  3.18 3.70
17 New York Islanders     41  15 21  5   35  .427  118 144  -26  2.87 3.51
18 Winnipeg Jets          45  13 24  8   34  .378  144 162  -18  3.19 3.60
19 Minnesota North Stars  44  11 25  8   30  .341  131 157  -26  2.97 3.56
20 Toronto Maple Leafs    42  12 27  3   27  .321  120 167  -47  2.85 3.97
21 Quebec Nordiques       43   9 27  7   25  .291  120 192  -72  2.79 4.46
 
Record in Games with Shutouts
 # TEAM                   GP   W  L  T  PTS   PCT
-- ---------------------- --  -- -- --  --- -----
 1 Minnesota North Stars   3   3  0  0    6 1.000
 2 New York Rangers        3   3  0  0    6 1.000
 3 Washington Capitals     2   2  0  0    4 1.000
 4 Winnipeg Jets           2   2  0  0    4 1.000
 5 Calgary Flames          1   1  0  0    2 1.000
 6 Los Angeles Kings       1   1  0  0    2 1.000
 7 Pittsburgh Penguins     1   1  0  0    2 1.000
 8 Boston Bruins           3   2  1  0    4  .667
 9 Buffalo Sabres          3   2  1  0    4  .667
10 St. Louis Blues         3   2  1  0    4  .667
11 Chicago Blackhawks      5   2  3  0    4  .400
12 Montreal Canadiens      5   2  3  0    4  .400
13 Hartford Whalers        3   1  2  0    2  .333
14 Philadelphia Flyers     3   1  2  0    2  .333
15 Vancouver Canucks       3   1  2  0    2  .333
16 Detroit Red Wings       4   1  3  0    2  .250
17 New York Islanders      0   0  0  0    0  .000
18 New Jersey Devils       1   0  1  0    0  .000
19 Toronto Maple Leafs     1   0  1  0    0  .000
20 Edmonton Oilers         3   0  3  0    0  .000
21 Quebec Nordiques        4   0  4  0    0  .000
 
Record in OT Games
 # TEAM                   GP   W  L  T  PTS   PCT
-- ---------------------- --  -- -- --  --- -----
 1 Chicago Blackhawks      5   2  0  3    7  .700
 2 Toronto Maple Leafs     5   2  0  3    7  .700
 3 Los Angeles Kings       7   2  0  5    9  .643
 4 New York Islanders      7   2  0  5    9  .643
 5 Boston Bruins          11   3  0  8   14  .636
 6 Hartford Whalers        7   2  1  4    8  .571
 7 Winnipeg Jets           9   1  0  8   10  .556
 8 Buffalo Sabres         12   2  1  9   13  .542
 9 Philadelphia Flyers     6   0  0  6    6  .500
10 Montreal Canadiens      7   1  1  5    7  .500
11 New York Rangers        9   1  1  7    9  .500
12 Quebec Nordiques        9   1  1  7    9  .500
13 New Jersey Devils       9   0  0  9    9  .500
14 Detroit Red Wings       7   1  2  4    6  .429
15 Pittsburgh Penguins     6   1  2  3    5  .417
16 Vancouver Canucks       6   1  2  3    5  .417
17 Washington Capitals     5   1  2  2    4  .400
18 Minnesota North Stars  10   0  2  8    8  .400
19 Calgary Flames          9   1  3  5    7  .389
20 St. Louis Blues         9   0  3  6    6  .333
21 Edmonton Oilers         5   0  3  2    2  .200
 
    

	Some friends and I were discussing this last night and the more I 
thought of it the more it stunk.  I'd agree with Milburry that players
such as Nilan and many others who give to their teams things that don't 
show up in the stats are often overlooked, but the bottom line is Chris Nilan 
is not a STAR.  Important to his team? Sure.  A great competitor? Sure.  A
leader off the ice?  Sure.  A star?  NO WAY.  

	The people in Chicago and the people who will watch the All Star game
are not watching it to see the Chris Nilan's of the league.  I'm sure
the majority would have rather seen Lefluer, a real star, take the ice.  Or
one of many others over Nilan.

	It also seems that having one quater of the team Bruins a bit much.
I'm sure Milburry (with Harry's bessing and support) is doing it to get back
at the league but thats no excuse.  They're hurting the fans, the hand that
feeds them.  At least this time Mike ins't climbing over the boards to do
it.


Mc
	

    I agree Mike, I find it hard to believe a team that doesn't have the
    most points in its conference has 1/4 of the all-stars.   Ogrodnick
    or Muller or Lafleur should have got the spot.

    Re. .39
    
    From the lawrence Eagle Tribune?
    Stan Jonathan?
    Jonathan=John Wensink=Gilles Lupien=John Kordic=Dave Brown=King Kong
    Korab=Hanson Brothers
    
    Just ask Pierre Bouchard.
    
    MikeL
    

re: .46

So aside from naming Jonathan, no other issues with the article?

Prosecution rests.

daryll

    Nope,no other issues. 
    

    The Vancouver Canucks make 2 trades over the weekend:
    
    acquired Gerald Diduck from Montreal for a 4th round draft pick;
    and acquired Tom Kurvers from Toronto for Brian Bradley.

I guess the General Managers meeting voted to have instant replay
on disputed goals.

In an interesting sidelight, instant replay showed that the three 
goals allowed by the ref (forget his name) in the Whalers-Minnesota
game a while back were clear goals.

Rick Ley has made a case that this ref (want to say Lawson, but I don't
think that's his name) has a thing against Ley dating back to his earlier
coaching years.  At first when he said this I was somewhat skeptical,
but it seems there might be some merit to it after all...

Whalers stunk up the Garden last night with a pretty poor performance.

Actually, I'd like to see the Whalers finish 4th again, and then
bow out to the Bruins in 4 straight.  That way, we might get rid of
Ley and get a good coach (Where *is* Terry Crisp anyway????) in there.

Krygier lost a tooth last night after a high stick and will need 
root canal surgery and a cap.

Brown bunted in his 13th goal.  Great play, should make some highlights
films...

'Saw

    'Saw,
    
    Perfect case for instant replay was last nights Flyers/Oilers game.
    I thought Hextall was gonna kill the goal judge.  Thank goodness that
    Koharski disallowed the goal.
    
    FYI-the league still has to vote on Instant replay; so its not a
    definite just yet; although I do expect it to go through.  ('bout
    time!)

>    
>    FYI-the league still has to vote on Instant replay; so its not a
>    definite just yet; although I do expect it to go through.  ('bout
>    time!)

Last night the interviewee between the first and second periods was
John Davidson, former Ranger goalie and color commentator on the
Ranger Radio broadcasts.  He felt that the board of governors would
pretty much rubber stamp it.

Concerns (of mine):

	a) that it doesn't emasculate the referees like it has in the
	   NFL
	b) that it doesn't hold up the game like it does in the NFL
	c) that the refs are smart enough to know when and when not
	   to use it....


It is about time.

'Saw

    'Saw,
    
    Well, at least it will be used only for disputed goals (no offsides,
    penalties, etc.).  It shouldn't slow the game down like it has to
    football.
    
    I know I've read somewhere that it might be used like a time out
    (only so many per game) or it might be used in a manner so that if
    it isn't a goal the team requesting a replay will be penalized for
    2 minutes.  Should be interesting to see just how the Board of
    Govs institute it.

I'd like to see it be used in conjunction with the ref, but not limited
like timeouts.

I mean, if you get jobbed by the ref on three goals, you should have the
ability to overturn the ref on three goals.

I think some criteria should be set up (the 2nd Whalers goal on Ing the
other night would be a good example) and then followed....

Knowing the NHL, they'll probably come up with some bonehaided way
to do it....

'Saw

� I mean, if you get jobbed by the ref on three goals, you should have the
� ability to overturn the ref on three goals.

I thought the puck had to hit the back of the net, which set off a
buzzer or something. How can the ref job you on goals (accept by
claiming a penalty prior to the goal)?

Mike JN

    
    The puck has to cross the goal line, which runs through the pipes at
    the front of the net.  There is no electronic device that indicates a
    goal, but some dude sitting behind the glass flicks the red light on
    when he sees the puck go in.  Also, the whole puck has to "break the
    plane" as they say, and is a goal even if the puck is being juggled in
    the air by the goalie and the puck crosses over.  This I think would be
    the most difficult call for the goal judge.  Another common difficult
    call is when the puck hits inside the posts or under the crossbar and
    for some reason pops back out.  Cameras above the net and along the
    goal line would certainly help.  I think it's a good idea.
    
    Dickstah
    

    
    Oh, and if other sports can spend all kind of money on stuff like
    dancing scoreboards and exploding cheerleaders, why can't the NHL add a
    little technology that actually pertains to the game itself?
    
    Dickstah
    

The NHL tried a laser beam running along the crease a few years 
ago and it failed miserably.

daryll

Then change the rules.
Make it hit the back of the net (they moved the goal posts in football
back ten yards.... no  big deal). That's be easier to judge. Or, they
could set the net so that when a puck touches it, the puck is
automatically teleported into the ref's hind pocket.

Mike JN

Yeah, even if the puck is under the goalie's control, in his mitt, and
his mitt crosses the line, then it's a goal.  

But, as Dickster pointed out, the goal judge has to turn on the light.

I think the replay would be most helpful on the cross bar shots, etc....

'Saw

    Yea,but 'Saw, the ref is the final judge of goal or no goal,not
    the goal judge unless I am sadly mistaken.
    	I'm not so sure that this will work. The game is so fast that I
    can envision numerous goals(??)being questioned. Criteria has to be
    determined. I believe that half the bitches about goals occur during
    pile-up time at the crease. If the NHL would enforce the sanctity of
    the crease, the ref could see the damn goal line. Bring back the iron
    posts, that will stop the runs at goalies and the free for all around
    the net.  On legit disputed goals,maybe a relay would be ok. I'm
    just undecided at this point.
      MikeL
    

>    Yea,but 'Saw, the ref is the final judge of goal or no goal,not
>    the goal judge unless I am sadly mistaken.

Correct.  I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

>    	I'm not so sure that this will work. The game is so fast that I
>    can envision numerous goals(??)being questioned. Criteria has to be
>    determined. I believe that half the bitches about goals occur during
>    pile-up time at the crease. 


I'm thinking more of goals like the one the Whale scored against Ing
the other night.  The goal judge didn't turn on the light, the
ref said Goal so it was.  It was very obvious from the replay the
puck was over the line under Ing's elbow.  Had the ref not call it,
I'm sure the replay would have overturned it...

But, they shouldn't question EVERY goal...or at least I hope they don't!!!

'Saw
    

	I think instant replay for disputed gaols is a good idea.  They don't
happen all that often and many times a replay clearly shows that an error 
was made.  

	Also one of the talk shows last night mentioned that John Zeigler (yes 
he's alive) had the GM's vote on a new All-Star provision that would let 
Zeigler appoint one 'senior player' to the all star game a year.  This was
supposedly approved and no doubt was put in so Lefluer could be named this
year.  Another good move IMO.  Has anyone seen anything on this in the papers
this morning?

Mc

    
    In last night's Broons game the Detroit Dead Things got screwed out of
    a goal as Moog, sprawled on the ice, miraculously gloved a shot in
    close.  Replay showed that the puck was indeed in his glove, but he was
    over the goal line up to his wrist.
    
    Didn't make any difference anyway with the B's winning 6-1, while
    Detriot spent half the game shorthanded due to high-sticks, elbows, and
    firearms violations.
    
    Dickstah
    

    
    I too think that instant replay on disputed goals is a good idea. 
    The only problem is, where to mount the camera's, and the cost to 
    do so. Using the television camera's is not a good idea because of
    the different structure of the arena's sometimes the camera's are
    linited. Some buildings show great coverage other's do not. 
    
    This also brings up the issue of "How much will this cost?" and 
    "How much more do we charge for tickets?". Not to mention that
    some arena's may have to give up prime seats to mount the camera's.
    
    I did read an article in the Glob this morning about Heil Zeigler(tm)
    and his Lafleur/Milbury/Nilan/Quebec fans? rule. He thinks it's just 
    another way to show case the senior players. Good idea, gee John
    why didn't you think of this earlier? 
    
    
    
    Steve

    Detriot (tm): - It's no place for wimps!

    Great move by Ziegler. (The man makes me ill beyond words!)
    
    So now whenever there's a 'senior player' the All-Star Roster will
    be expanded to 21.  Big deal.  It doesn't mean that the coach of
    the respective Conference has to let him play a whole heck of a
    lot.
    
    If Ziegler had wanted to make a contribution to the game of hockey
    he would look at some more burning issues and put them in place
    asap -- like instant replay, running goaltenders, etc.

    I can hear it now:
    
    "After further review, the goal stands."
    
    
    JaKe
    

    So the NHL added a senior player to the All Star team to make up for
    Milbury's bush league choices, eh?
    
    Dan

    I hear Wayne Gretzky has asked the NHL to cancel the All-Star game
    Saturday.  The NHL has said, in effect, "Hit the Bricks, Bozo, the game
    is on."
    
    
    JaKe
    

    If Wayne Gretzky did asked the NHL to cancel the game would it be
    possible for you to also say why he did so? 
    
    Ted.

    Ted,
    
    Thats easy -- cuz he thinks he's GOD!  8^) 8^) 8^) 8^)  From a serious
    vantage point, though I think probably cuz he feels he would have more
    pull than say, Chris Nilan! ;-)
    
    I think just because there is a war in Iraq that we shouldn't
    stop living our lives over here...that would probably be something that
    SoDamn Insane would thrive on.

    In other news that near-deity, Cam Neely, scored a hat trick last
    night against the Kings.  Not too shabby after missing a couple
    games.

    If he feels that way about it, he can always refuse to play himself.
    
    Ted.

    "Only in Boston"?  C'mon Dan, surely you can do better than that.
    
    Who has been named to replace Nilan on the All Star squad?
    
    Moog will be backing up Roy.

    Dave christian has been named to replace Nilan, With Janney being
    menchoned in the running also.  He should have been picked in the 
    1st place.
    -TH

    Wales conference lost, 11-5.  Best part of the whole show was the
    National anthem.  

    What was that that Milbury said about this year not being a repeat of
    the previous years' offensive showings?  That this year there would be
    "real" hockey?

    I guess Mike showed them by not bringing all the shooter, huh?
    
    What a crock...

    
    Nice game by Da Broons lasted night.  Leading 3-0 in the second period,
    they managed to hang on for a 6-4 loss (giving up six straight goals).
    
    Looks like Buffalo teams can do no wrong this week.
    
    Dickstah
    

Well, the Whalers beat the Flames last night in a barnburner
at the Civic Center.

Up 2-0 going into the 3rd, the Whalers weren't content to let the
fans off easy, so they gave Calgary 4 unanswered goals.

The Whalers clawed back to 4-3, and scored with :01 remaining on
a two man advantage last in the period.  Brown took the puck at
the side of the net, jinked one guy and made a really nice pass to
Ronnie Francis (give they guy back his C, you Dorkwad Ley!) who
put it home.

A few minutes later Paul Cyr managed to get a goal off a Calgary
defenseman who was covering the net for Wamsley, who decided to
wander for the first time all night.

With a power play in the final minute, Calgary looked to tie it.
Ron Francis again made the game save, with :10 left, MacInnes has
the puck at th blue line, dead center and was about to wind up for
a blistering shot.  It looked like Francis went down too early
to block it, but kept sliding and poke checked the puck to center
ice, saving the Whalers win (Give Francis back his C you Cheesedick(tm)
Ley!).

But the best part was when I stopped to get my morning bagel this morning.
The guy who works in the shop was at the game last night, sitting right
behind Whalers owner Richard Gordon.  Evidently a lot of the fans who
were imbibing and sitting in that area were abusing the sh*t out of
Gordon, telling him to do something with the &^%&ing team etc etc etc...


You heard it here first...
'Saw

    
    It's Da Broons - Whale shoot-em-up again tonight.  Anyone know how the
    season series stands thus far?  DiNz?
    
    Dickstah
    

    >	It's Da Broons - Whale shoot-em-up again tonight.  Anyone know how the
    >	season series stands thus far?
    
    Two of the three ringside judges have the Whale slightly ahead on
    points. :-)
    

With three games left in the 8 game series, the Bruins lead it
3-2.

Thanks for reminding me, I'd forgotten this was on tonight.  Guess I'll
go buy the new VCR *tomorrow* night...8^)

'Saw

    
    
    The B's have also won the last three against the Whale...Outscoring
    them 17-6.....
    
    
    Jim

    
    Thanks, Paul, for the LOTD.
    
    Dickstah
    

    Would someone be able to post the Penguins remaining games (dates and
    times) with both the Rangers and the Flyers.
    
    Thanks.
    
    	--dan'l

    
Jan 31   Pens at Phil
Mar 17   Pens at NYR
    21   NYR at Pens
    26   Pens at Phil
    30   Phil at Pens
    31   Pens at NYR
    
    

    
    Three reasons why Da Broons beat the Whale lasted night:
    
           1.  Andy Moog
    
           2.  Andy Moog
    
           3.  Da Broons scored some goals, while referee George Jetson had
               to keep tossin' those dirty Whales in the sin-bin for their
               low-down cheatin' ways.  Cheat cheat never beat. Nyah nyah.
    
    Dickstah
    

Yeah, Moog was unconscious.....

I watched all of the game until LA Law came on, and it was evident that
the Whale wasn't going to score.

I enjoyed the game.  I thought it was a good hockey game, hard hitting,
but clean.  The Bruins checking line did a good job against the 
Whalers hottest line (Francis, Brown, Verbeek) and the Whalers just
didn't have a little luck getting the puck in the net.

I didn't like the way the Whalers backed up at the blue line.  They
should have beena little more physical there, I think.

I was not thrilled with the refereeing.  While some of Hartford's
penalties were deserved, several were questionable calls, especially
in light of some of the same types of things being done by the
Bruins, which resulted in non-calls.  Then again, Fraser sucks as
a ref, and was probably playing to the home crowd 8^)

Up until the 3rd period, the score was pretty respectable.


Now, some typical Chainsaw observations on the Bruins:

	- Cam, cut your hair.  You look like a pansy.  Long hair
	  like that is out unless you're a rock star.

	- Craig Janney, stop doing drugs.  Just say no.  That glassy
	  look in your eyes doesn't lie.

	- Glenn Wesley...dude, you were better off when you were playing
	  the banjo in Deliverance.

	- Hodge...truly the fleshy headed mutant that Bob and Doug McKenzie
	  were fighting in Strange Brew

	

8^)

'Saw

    'saw,
    	Gotta agree wif ya on Wesley. He never impressed me,showed
    coccasional flashes of semi-competence, but in general never
    improved enough from his rookie year. He's a free agent I believe
    next year,and if the Broons can't trade him for something earlier,
    than good luck to the team that end up with Pumpkin'Haid. his brother
    Blake was better.
    
    MikeL
    

    re: .93
    
    'Saw,
    
    Cam is only waiting for his hair to be as long as Rob Browns before
    he cuts it! ;-)
    
    Great game....crowd was pumped when Skriko got his goal.  Don't know
    if the people in t.v. land got to see the banner that some fan had
    done for the Whalers.....the logo in black and gold with the message
    'This scuds for you'  The crowd enjoyed it.  The crowing point of
    the evening was leaving the game and two Hartford fans were walking
    in front of us covering up the "Hartford" emblazoned on their
    sweatshirts; yeah, if I was from there and they were my hockey team
    I'd be embarrassed too!  ;-) x 1,000,000.
    
    Good job by the Bruins; they've yet to lose a game this season that
    I've gone to.  Just the opposite in Hartford...everytime I go the
    Whale lose!!!  Hahahahahahaha.....strange, but TRUE!
    

�    Cam is only waiting for his hair to be as long as Rob Browns before
�    he cuts it! ;-)

I don't like Rob Brown's hair either.
    
�    Great game....crowd was pumped when Skriko got his goal.  

Skriko.  Reminds me of Greico, who used to play Booker on Fox TV.
All I could think of everytime they said his name was that commercial
on Fox that went:  'Greico....Depp.....Depp....Greico..."


�Don't know if the people in t.v. land got to see the banner that some fan had
�    done for the Whalers.....the logo in black and gold with the message
�    'This scuds for you'  The crowd enjoyed it.  

Figures a Boston fan would write that.  Didn't see it on TV.  Saw
the folks with flags, which I thought was cool.  Saw a banner that
threatened to send Nilan over to Iraq.  Also thought that was cool.

The guys singing the National Anthem should take some voice lessons.

Also, where did they import the tie-wearing, Perrier-sipping, Brie
eating, Preppie/Yuppies that were sitting behind the Boston bench.
What're the Bruins trying to clean up their image for TV?  8^)



>The crowing point of
>    the evening was leaving the game and two Hartford fans were walking
>    in front of us covering up the "Hartford" emblazoned on their
>   sweatshirts; yeah, if I was from there and they were my hockey team
>    I'd be embarrassed too!  ;-) x 1,000,000.

The Whalers had nothing to be ashamed of last night.  except for backing
in a the blue line, and failing to score (how many times did they hit
the post? two?)  they played a good game.
    
'Saw

�Also, where did they import the tie-wearing, Perrier-sipping, Brie
�eating, Preppie/Yuppies that were sitting behind the Boston bench.
�What're the Bruins trying to clean up their image for TV?  8^)

Didn't you know??  They're imports from the Insurance City! 8^)
Either that its just a bunch of Celtics fan finally coming to
their senses.

�The Whalers had nothing to be ashamed of last night.  except for backing
�in a the blue line, and failing to score (how many times did they hit
�the post? two?)  they played a good game.
    
Yeah, and how many times can you say Mooooooooooooooooooooooog!? ;-)
For some reason the 'Dork' didn't look up to par. It was, however,
nice of the B's to score all their goals at the end of the ice I
was sitting at.  I would loved to have heard Derek last night...
a friend told me that after Moog stopped Brown a couple of times
Sanderson was saying Brown was going over to tell Ley he was going
home.  Too funny.....

>on Fox that went:  'Greico....Depp.....Depp....Greico..."

	Richard Greico.  Oh, baby...  absolutely delish.

>Didn't you know??  They're imports from the Insurance City! 8^)
>Either that its just a bunch of Celtics fan finally coming to
>their senses.


Musta been Celtics fans.  Folks from the Insurance City who dress
like that would never subject their beemers to (shudder) the North
Station area of Boston!

�Yeah, and how many times can you say Mooooooooooooooooooooooog!? ;-)

I said that earlier.  He was absolutely unconscious last night.
Of course, after looking like a sieve in the All-Star game he had
to bounce back....


�For some reason the 'Dork' didn't look up to par. It was, however,
�nice of the B's to score all their goals at the end of the ice I
�was sitting at.  

That's because he has his head firmly implanted between his buttcheeks.

I'd have rather seen Reaugh....



�I would loved to have heard Derek last night...
�a friend told me that after Moog stopped Brown a couple of times
�Sanderson was saying Brown was going over to tell Ley he was going
�home.  Too funny.....

Derek is one neuron short of having enough to make a synapse in his
brain.  Plus, with the exception of Johnny Most, he's the biggest
homer I've ever heard.  

I'll bet he was creaming himself every time that flamer Fraser called
a Whaler's penalty....


'Saw

�>on Fox that went:  'Greico....Depp.....Depp....Greico..."
�
�	Richard Greico.  Oh, baby...  absolutely delish.


Dennis Miller did a funny skit on SNL about that ad.  I can't remember
how it went, but it was no Weekend Report...

'Saw

'Saw,

Afree with ya on Sanderson. Horrible. His drug-laden mind 
doesn't belong behind a mike.

Any truth to the rumor that he still gets the shakes when they 
run a beer commercial between periods?

daryll

    Come on guys! There is a Bruins notesfile and a good one at that.
    
    Ted.

    What's the latest on Roy?  Is he out for more than a month?

    MARIO returns, 3 assists.  Pens Win.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    I heard 4-6 weeks Karen.
    
    Dennis Miller was "Greico...Depp..Greico..Depp...HOT.... Right...."
    
    No mention of Brett Hull getting 50 in 49 and 52 in 50?  Ironic
    it was against Detroit and he was set up by Adam Oates...

    In the Blues' 6-5 OT victory over the Wings on Saturday, Adam Oates
    assisted on every St. Louis goal.  Anyone know his point total for the
    season?
    
    /Ed

    Ed,
    
    The National will have all the stats through Sunday's game tomorrow.
    Oates doesn't have a lot of goals; but lots of assists, take into
    consideration that he was out earlier this year...
    
    Speaking of St. Louis, remember the Paul Cavallini incident? (with
    the finger?)  Seems that the people who thought up the idea to
    auction off the tip of his finger have been fired. (One from the
    hospital and one from the radio station.)
    
    AND, since Walt didn't mention it:  Hull became only the 5th NHL
    player to reach 50 goals in 50 games and its only the 8th time that
    its been done.

    Don't know all his stats, but Oates was named NHL Pro Set player
    of the week.  It also mentioned he has 44 assists in 31 games...

    re: .106
    
    Adam Oates stats: (through Sunday)
    
    GP     G    A     PTS    +/-    PIM    PP   SH   Wi  Gt   S   PCT
    
    31     11   44    55      +8     25    1     1    1   0   63  17.5

Well, the Whalers actually sucked s__t through a straw last night,
being UTTERLY BLOWN AWAY by the Islanders, 8-1, for the WORST loss
of the season.

I watched parts of the game, spending the rest of the time fooling
around with my new VCR while trying to copy some tapes.  

At any rate, SiDORKiewicz really has that head of his so far up between
his buttcheeks that he can't see anything.  He sucked last night.

But Ley keeps playing him.  There's two reasons for this.  First, he
doesn't want to have to name a #1 goalie, so he waffles all the time,
and second, because the fans have been screaming for Reaugh lately,
he's refusing to play him, because the fans aren't going to run the
club.

I'll make the predicition right now.  IF the Whalers finish in 4th place,
Ley's job is in jeopardy.  IF the Whalers finish in 4th place AND
bow out in the first round of the playoffs, Ley is GONE....

No one would be happier than I.....

later,
'Saw

    	IF the Whale finish in fourth place Jim Dinsmore will need a
    powerful bun warmer to defrost his backside.

    I hear Davey Poulin might return to the B's lineup Thurs night
    against Habs. Nilan still a couple of weeks away.
    Anyone know if John Carter has made any progress in curing his
    "swelled head" syndrome up in Maine? Would gladly applaude 
    having him trade places with Messr. Bob sweeney at this point.
    
    MikeL
    
    

    I started watching some of that game -- what a disgrace!  I could't
    believe that Ley didn't pull the Dork out of the game, especially
    after the 2nd period.  Even Cheevers couldn't believe it.  I think
    they said it was his 5th or 6th consecutive start.  Ley should give
    the guy some rest.  Too bad, because if the Whale had won this game
    they would have at least reached the .500 plateau AND set a new
    record from most consecutive wins on home ice.   CHOKE.......

    
    
    re. .113
    
    
       Believe it or not, Bob Sweeney has been playing some real good
    hockey lately...He may not be putting up great numbers, but he has
    turned into one of the best defensive forwards on the team....Now
    that Poulin is back and will be centering him, his numbers should rise!
    
    
    Jim

Big article in the Hartford Courant this morning.  If I have time
later I'll type it in.

At any rate, Rick Ley was blasting the fans for gettting on the team
the other night when they got their butts booted 8-1...

Boy, talk about nerve.  

My feeling is that this team would be fun to support if they were either:

		- Really stinking lousy inept (like worse than
		  Quebec)

		- Really great, like Calgary, Boston, Edmonton


A team that is constantly and hopelessly mired in the apathy of mediocrity
is tough to root for.....


I hope Rick Ley is history by season's end....

'Saw

    re .116
    It seems that a team would be fun to support if, even if they were
    mired in mediocrity, they gave it their best and were a hard-working
    team. Even a few years back, before the Bruins were among the NHL's
    elite, they always had that workman's attitude of making the best out
    of sometimes limited talent. I think this has a lot to do with their
    popularity with the fans. Even still, durig that time they were much 
    better than mediocre, but not realistic contenders for the Cup. 
    
    Tom

    
    Re Bob sweeney' numbers
    
    I'll believe it when I see it. Too often in past years he has played
    okay in the beginning and middle part of the season,only to fall off
    to totally inept by playoff time. I'd like to see a comparison of
    his numbers,comparing the first 2/3 of a year with the last 1/3. I
    think you will see quite a dropoff. What do you expect from a guy
    who Fred Cusick adores and tags along behind Neely at the local 
    meat markets.
    
    MikeL
     
    
    
    
    

    'Saw,
    
    I, too, agree that even a mediocre team can be supported -- as long
    as the fans get what they want.  You said yourself that Ley won't
    put in Reaugh because thats what the fans want...to me this appears
    more of a hindrance to the team than a help.  I mean, if I'm paying
    $30-$36 a ticket and the goaltender is being a sieve, put the other
    one in....no one wants to see their team get shelled, especially
    on home ice.

    Glad to see the Bs finally woke up and decided to win the Adams
    division.  2 consecutive victories over Montreal in the last week
    certainly helped.  Here's hoping they keep this concentration and don't
    start letting inferior teams come back from a 3 goal deficit again.

Whalers played a terrible game last night against St Louis.

As usual, they were ahead 2-1, gave up two goals to be losing 3-2.
Then, on a really pretty goal by Andersson, they tied it.

Into overtime, and one of the Flounders blows his assignment (he was
probably suffering from DORK Disease -- head firmly impacted between
butt cheeks) and let Brind'amour run rampant around the net.

Reaugh didn't have a chance on the back hander.....


	Dear Rick Ley,

	That's why the fans boo your team.  You, and the team,
	suck.


Have a happy,
'Saw

    
    
    A friend from Pittsburgh wrote me this morning reminding me that
    all the Flyers and all their fans ( :-) ), bar none, were [censored:
    basically, NOT fine examples of humanity] and that Fraser is the
    worst ref in any sport at any time.
    
    Well, I knew all that, but since my friend failed to supply any
    details, I was wondering if anything specific happened in the game 
    to provoke my friend's outburst, or was this nothing more than the 
    standard reaction.  
    
    help?
    
    Charlie
    

Charlie.

I don't know anything specific, but I do agree about Fraser....

'Saw

    I disagree.  I believe Kerry Fraser is a fine referee, although he seems
    inconsistent at times.  He does carry an attitude onto the ice, which I
    think is what people object to about him, but I think there's a good
    reason.  He's small, and he's young-looking, both of which are problems
    that I face.
    
    When people like us want to be taken seriously, we have to carry
    ourselves with almost a Napoleonic bearing.  We have to dress 100%
    properly, we have to carry ourselves confidently and almost arrogantly,
    we can't take any s*it from anyone and we have to act the part of
    someone who *DEMANDS* to be taken seriously.  Lets face it - the people
    who carry respect are taller and look older.  I believe Fraser does
    that and I believe the perfectly coiffed hair is part of that - it's a
    job requirement for him, perhaps moreso than any other official.
    
    I have to act that way in my job with the Patriots, too.  Moreso than a
    lot of people, I have to know what I'm doing *COLD*, perform my job
    with confidence and be able to mean what I say and back it up (with
    knowledge and confidence, not with fists).  I get into trouble when
    there's a situation that I don't see very often and I act like I'm
    unsure of how to interpret it.  My predecessor was an older man who'd
    been doing the job for a long time but he didn't have to have the
    demeanor that I sometimes have to have.
    
    John
                                                                    

John Hendry, The Napolean of Sports!


[lots and lots of smilies their buddy!]

'Saw

    JH,
    	Being a young, attractive looking guy  myself,
    I can really identify wif yu.
    
    rememb those immortal words when things go wrong;
    
    
    
    
    		U R TU BLAM !!!!!!
    
    Sincerely though, I really admire you and what you do and know.
    {really from the heart!}
    
    Kev
    

    
    OK, now I have much more insight into WHY Fraser is such 
    a lousy ref.
    
    Charlie
    

    NEWS FLASH:
    
    Glen Wesley and a 1st rounder draft pick to Edmonton for:
    
    
    Jari Kurri....available March 1, 1991 after he fulfills his
    committment to the Italian team he's currently playing for.

    
    
    Sure, call her to let her know and she scoops me in SPORTS!!!!
    
    Definitely a great move.  Kurri will be a huge asset to the B's, with
    his skating and scoring ability.  And no great loss saying goodbye to
    Glen "How many have I kicked into the net this season??" Wesley.
    
    Harry, Harry, Harry!  You never cease to amaze me!
    
    Cath

    Thats what roomies are for!!!!!!!!!!! 8^)
    
    

    WOW! Not a bad move... You'd think there would be a LOT of teams
    looking to get a player of Kurri's calibre. I had heard any deal would 
    hinge on 1) whether the Milan team would let him out of the second year
    of the 2-year contact he signed with them, and 2) that Kurri wants to
    play for Finland in the world championships. Even still, that would
    still give him a few regular season games and have Kurri for the
    playoffs.
    
    Tom  

    
    It was just posted in the BRUINS notesfile that 'BCN rescinded their
    earlier announcement about the trade.
    
    Looks like they were duped, and passed on bum info to the rest of us.
    
    Damn.  I was psyched to have Kurri as a member of the B's.  Oh, well.
    
    Cath

    Gee you mean they actually fooled "Tank", the resident genius of sports
    on 'BCN?? The man whose sports reports are verbatim from that morning's
    Globe and Herald? I'm SHOCKED!
    
    It did sound a little too good to be true. The obstacles I mentioned
    before (contract buyout, Finland team) seemed like they could be
    overcome, but usually these kind of negotiations take a little time.
    The Sunday Globe mentioned Sinden talking to Edmonton Kingpin Glen
    Sather about this to "keep me in mind" if he ever decides to trade
    Kurri's rights. The article said that just about every other team
    "expressed interest" as well. I was also thinking that a player like
    Kurri could be the difference between the Bs making it to the finals
    and winning the Cup. I don't know if the Oilers would be this willing
    to accommodate the Bruins, especially since they *could* see each other
    in the finals....
    
    Tom 

    Tank/Sports == MacDonalds/Food
    
    Tank makes Bob Lobell sound like he knows hsi stuff.

    If it was posted as having come from Tank in the first place, I never
    would have believed it.  This is an example of why Tank can't be
    believed - any reporter who's worth a damn would have checked such a
    rumor out with the Bruins before reporting it.  To do otherwise is
    completely irresponsible.
    
    John

Boy oh boy, all of the fuss and fervor a technoweenie can do with the
right net address, some official looking "telex" traffic, and a lot
of wanna_believe broons fans!


hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha(tm),

;^)

'Saw

    'Saw,
    
    One who lives in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.  'Twasn't
    too long ago that the WHALERS radio announcers were duped into
    believing Kevin Dineen had been traded and announced it on the
    air!  Hahahahha......at least this misinformation didn't come
    directly from the B's organization.

    
    
    Mario is expected to play on Friday.
    
    
    Charlie
    

    Wesley was on Channel 4 last night before the game ans was pissed-off
    about the trade flap....

    Bs come back from a 3 goal deficit behind Ken Hodge's hat trick with an
    OT win over the Oilers.
    
    In the "what goes around comes around" dept:  Remember the flap about
    the Bs "getting screwed" by the goal judge?  Well, last night the Bs
    were awarded a goal on a shot that might not have beat the end of the
    period buzzer.

	Whew...glad the rumor was just that...

	Heard an interview with Wesley this morning and he said Milbury 
came to him before last nights game and siad the rumors wern't true and
that he would quit if they traded Glen.

Mc

    Well Wesley wasn't p.o.'d, at least not on the news I saw. He was
    actually joking about it saying its nice that everyone wants him.
    And conversations/interviews with Sather and Sinden confirm that
    they ARE talking about a Kurri trade.  Sinden was concerned with
    the fact that Kurri is hurt at the moment.

    
    
    From the replay with the clock clicking down.....
    
    It looked like a goal to me.
    
    
    Lou

    
    Sinden said this morning that WBCN was now persona non grata around
    the Garden. Wonder if that applies to Celts games to since the Bruins
    own the building?
    
    

    Does this mean that he can still go out back and stuff his fat face
    with pretzles, hotdogs, and sausages ?, while trying to get the
    "scoop"?
    
    They ought to put the slug in net and let the Walrus shoot at him,
    w/out pads. That would make for a good story.
    
    -TH 

    Ed Kastelic got a 5 game suspension/10,000.00 fine for his part
    in instigating a fight in Sunday's game against the Blackhawks.

>    Ed Kastelic got a 5 game suspension/10,000.00 fine for his part
>    in instigating a fight in Sunday's game against the Blackhawks.

Wrong.  It was ten games, I forget the fine figure.

While it can't be contested, the Whalers management is livid, because
the following is what happened:

Two players were fighting.  Ley changed lines (this btw, is the action
that exonerates him from being suspended too) in a legal line change.
Prior to the faceoff, Kastelic and the Blackhawk next to him got into
a fight.  In fact, one second had ticked off the clock.

The linesman went over and kept grabbing at Morrell while Morrell was
trying to make the call....next thing you know, Ed's gone.

Now, Ed would have been suspended for two games anyway, because it
was his fourth gamer, but that two games isn't counted now because
he's already suspended.


Personally, while I acknowledge that Ed is a Goon in the first degree,
I think he's getting jobbed.  Clearly, the intent of the rule is to
prevent bench clearing brawls and the like.  Kastelick was out
for a legal line change, and got into a fight on the faceoff.

I've never seen this rule called before in this situation, and I'm 
sure it's occured before. 


btw, this isn't the longest suspension for Ed.  In the AHL he was
suspended for 20 games one time because he bit a linesman's finger.
He was at the bottom of a pile of players, and someone kept gouging
at his eye.  When the finger made its way into his mouth, he bit.
Unfortunately, it was the linesman's finger ;^)

'Saw

    Wiener, from this mornings glob, it says that Ley still may get a 5
    games suspension...

    Here is what the Worcester Telegraph says..

    Hartford Wailers enforcer Ed Kastelic was suspended 10 games and fined
    $10,000 by the NHL for coming off the bench to take part in a fight
    against the Chicago Blackhawks. Kastelic, who had 2 goals, 2 assists
    and 181 minutes in penalties was sent out on Sunday after the Wailers
    Jim Mckenzie fought with the Blackhawks Adam Creighton 15:28 into the 
    first period. Before the puck was drooped for the face-off, Kastelic
    got into a fight with Mike Peluso, who had been on the ice for an
    earlier fight.

    The above is copied from the Worcester Telegraph and posted with-out
    permission.... Doesn't say anything about a 5 game suspension hanging
    over Ley....

    REK

�    Wiener, from this mornings glob, it says that Ley still may get a 5
�    games suspension...

The Hartford Courant says that that point is already moot since it had
been decided.

�    Here is what the Worcester Telegraph says..

Basically the Courant said the same thing only it went into more detail.
I don't think I'll have a chance, otherwise I'd post the entire article.
It was quite long...

Without a doubt Kastelik is purely an enforcer, a goon, and while I don't
particularly care for goons, I would like to see the rules consistently
applied.  Consistent application of rules (be it a tripping penalty,
a hooking penalty or this leaving the bench rule) has never been a 
strong point within the NHL.....

'Saw

    Sheesh!  First it was Tank reporting inaccuracies; now ya can't
    even trust SPORTSCHANNEL to give ya da correct information.
    
    BTW, why is the Failers management always so 'livid' over these
    decisions?  Do they think they're exempt from the rules?

    
    Jo,
    
    They don't want to lose Kastelic's awesome, potent offensive abilities.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Hahahaha?  Sorry, 'Saw.  Had to do it, especially sine you called Cam
    "I am god" Neely a goon Sunday night.   :-)
    
    Cath

�    Hahahaha?  Sorry, 'Saw.  Had to do it, especially sine you called Cam
�    "I am god" Neely a goon Sunday night.   :-)
    
No, Cath, you're right, he is a goon.  I don't like goons.

I think in this case you have to look at the application of the rule,
and the consistency.  

If Kastelic had come over the boards, skated out and bonked someone
right away, then send him, and suspend him.  The guy comes out,
lines up for the face off, and gets in a fight.  That's a little bit
different.  

The suspension now is incontestable, but I think that the consistency
of officiating and how the calls are applied are questionable in this
case....

'Saw

    'Saw,
    
    *MY* understanding from the Sportschannel report last night was
    something to the effect(affect?) about starting a fight BEFORE
    the puck was dropped.  SC showed the replay and you could definitely
    see Kastelic jawing away and starting in on Peluso.
    
    Since no one else brought it up, what are the thoughts of the
    Caps/Flyers game which had 294 penalty minutes?  You don't often
    see a goaltender (Pete Peeters, that GOON! :-)) leave his crease
    and skate to the other end of the building and start in on the
    opposing goaltender! (Don Beaupre)  Dale Hunters elbow looked
    like it could have (and maybe I'm being dramatic here) killed
    the Flyer who took it.  It was nasty and if Hunter doesn't get
    himself a suspension for that then something is seriously wrong
    with the NHL rules.
    
    BTW, Cam Neely is NOT a goon.  Get a grip will ya?  Do goons score
    hat tricks? Have 50+ goal seasons?  I think not.  Goons are more
    typified by the likes of Mick Vukota, Ken Baumgartner, Shayne Churla,
    Ed Kastelic, Todd Ewen, Chris Nilan, et al.  The ones who's stats
    refelct large numbers in penalty minutes, and few in the goals/assists
    columns.  If Cam is a goon then you have to start calling Rick Tocchet,
    Pat Verbeek goons too!  I don't think any of them are goons.

Well, the official record shows that the original fighting penalty was
at xx:x8 and the gamer to Kastelic was at xx:x9, so a second had elapsed.
Therefore one could assume that play had resumed.

Also, I'm sure this is not the first incident like this in the annals of
hockey.  I've seen it happen many times, yet I've never seen this penalty
called.

It goes back to the inconsistency of NHL officiating.  

'Saw

    'Saw,
    
    Stop getting so hung up on the clock....the fact of the matter is that
    the puck had yet to be dropped; play had not resumed.

    
    Fact of the matter is, inconsistency or no, that incidents like this
    continue to plague pro hockey in its quest to become "sport".  Arguments
    over an elapsed second and the exact technical definition of rules
    which have nothing to do with play of the game but rather the policing
    of aberrant behavior in between whistles are nice, but to the average 
    dweeb (like me) who sees the films on the 11 o'clock news, they make 
    little difference...
    
    glenn
    

Oh, I think that matter is bigger than that.  It's the overall
inconsistency of officiating.

I've noticed a lot lately that some officials BARELY are in control
of the game.

I don't like goons.  I'd much rather see fights in hockey administered
like they are in rugby -- you fight, you're out.  If one ref can
manage 30 guys on a pitch, why can't one ref and two linesman manage
12 men (with sticks no less) on the ice?

However, in Kastelic's case (and I'd feel this way no matter who it
was) the rule is being imposed in a way which if first inconsistent,
and second, outside of the intended application.

The rule is designed to prevent bench clearing brawls.  There have
been other cases in hockey where a player has come out on a line
change after a fight and gotten into a fight on the ensuing faceoff,
and NOT been suspended.  Call the penalty everytime and enforce the
very letter of the law, or enforce the law in the spirit in which
it was intended.

This inconsistency goes beyond just the fact that I'm a Whaler fan, 
and all you Bruins fans are creaming yourselves because your player
got booted a few months ago because of Kastelic, and now justice
has been done..  I've seen it in lots of hockey games that involve 
neither team.

Why, late in third period of a tied game will the referee NOT call any
penalties?  Why when blatant penalties occur right in front of him
will he play See-No-Evil?

Has hockey sunk to the level of Sports Entertainment a la WWF?  
If it is trying to elevate it's stature to that of true sport, why
aren't these issues being addressed?

These are very crucial issues for the game of hockey, and personally,
I don't have a lot of faith in the league office to reasonably handle
them.....

JMHO,
'Saw

    
    'Saw, I'm not a Bruins fan or even a hockey fan, so my knowledge of the
    rules and what's going on with the sport are based on news telecasts,
    which leaves me with a little bit of action and the best fights and
    riots that occurred around the league on that particular night.
    
    What I'm referring to per my comments on the complaining over the strict
    adherence to the rules comes from the same sources.  I saw the films of
    Cam Neely putting a stick over some guy's head and then heard quotes
    from both Neely and Harry Sinden that based on past precedence, the
    punishment was too strict.  That's ridiculous.  Neely had the balls to 
    state that while he didn't deny what he did, that if you knew him 
    personally you knew that it wasn't intentional.  (C'mon, Cam, I saw the 
    films!  You think that excuse would hold up in court?)  Now we have a 
    guy, who was apparently inserted into a game for the explicit purpose 
    of perpetuating a brawl and can't even wait for the puck to drop, 
    claiming that he didn't break the letter of the law...
    
    I think the NHL is damned if they do and damned if they don't if these
    are the type of responses elicited when they *do* take action against
    obvious blatant offenses.  Everyone wants to put an end to it, but of
    course at the expense of someone else's team.  If the teams don't look 
    within and take any individual responsibility for themselves and their 
    sport, yeah, you're always going to be able to cite inconsistencies 
    while the fighting rages on... 
    
    I won't speak for the officiating of actual game action; that's another
    issue entirely.
    
    glenn
    

    Small nit:
    
    I don't think it was Kastelic that Neely slashed; I believe it was
    Ladoceur.
    
    Why the refs won't call a penalty in the 3rd when the game is tied:
    They don't want to be the one who decides the game.
    
    Inconsistency has been part of the sport for years; if you're just
    now noticing it then you obviously haven't watched much hockey.  All
    teams have their turns so it probably evens out in the end.
    
    Wailers sip....any team (Ley & Evason) that criticizes their FANS has
    got to have a few loose screws.  Loved the article when Evason said
    he wished the Wailer fans were more like Bruin fans......they should
    stop trying to be like everyone else and be themselves.

    This game was our "Hockey Night in Hartford" (and I, at least, had
    a great time).  As a result, I saw the mess.  This was one of those
    games where "I was at the fights and a hockey game broke out" --
    at least during the period when the incident of the fight before
    the face-off occurred.  The "coming off the bench to start a fight"
    rule *doesn't* seem to apply here.  The original fight had ended,
    the miscreants had been sent to their rooms, a legitimate line change
    had occurred.  Then as the two players were noodging/jockeying for
    position on the face-off circle (lots of shoulder to knee body
    contact), the Hartford guy started a fight.  He definitely deserved
    what he got at the game, but a 15-game suspension seems to be overkill.
    
    There *is* a lot of inconsistency in hockey officiating.  Even more
    inconsistency in the League office.  Certainly that problem *also*
    needs to be addressed.
    
    A&W

I've been watching hockey for more than 20 years.  I remember the CBS
Sunday afternoon shows with Dan Kelly and Jim Gordon...

Not calling a penalty in the third period of a tied game becuase they
don't want to decide the game is pansy-ass.  The player who comitted
the infraction just decided the game.

Personally, my feeling is that if you start a fight your gone.  Send
them both.  If someone comes off the bench to fight, suspend them.

There's too much discretionary power given to those denizens of the
lower end of the evolutionary scale -- the NHL Referee....

'Saw

	You want inconsistency 'Saw?  Mike Millbury gets a 5 game 
suspension while trying to stop Lyndon Byers from fighting, essentially 
playing the role of a peacemaker.  Ley gets nothing for sending a goon off 
the bench to start a fight.

				/Don

>	You want inconsistency 'Saw?  Mike Millbury gets a 5 game 
>suspension while trying to stop Lyndon Byers from fighting, essentially 
>playing the role of a peacemaker.  Ley gets nothing for sending a goon off 
>the bench to start a fight.


Well, according to the rules (which again I feel need to be revamped)
Ley was exonerated because of the legal line change.

I don't feel that Millbury should have been suspended either.  They
should reserve that for when a coach goes into the crowd or something.

Ley didn't send him out to start a fight.  Well, let me rephrase that.
He had him out there because several of the better players were out there
and he didn't want anything to happen to them.  That's what he was 
quoted as saying.

I think Millbury does the same thing with Nilan, the Washington coach
does the same thing with Hunter etc etc etc ad nauseum....

If they started handing out gamers for fights, fighting would soon
be a thing of the past...(I think)....

'Saw

    
    Yup, Jo.  It was Ladouceur that Neely leveled.
    
    IMO, the officiating in the NHL is the worst, most pitiful excuse of
    officiating in any of the 4 major sports.  
    
    Football is a major-league contact sport, like hockey, but you don't
    see fights.  Sure, an occasional scuffle might break out, but I have
    never seen two guys pounding the shit out of each other on a football
    field.  Why is this?  Why the difference?  Could/should the NHL look
    towards the NFL to see where they've been successful, why they've been
    successful, what works, what doesn't, etc?  I'm by no means implying
    that the officiating in the NFL is perfect, but it seems to be a much
    better (by better I mean more consistent, less "bendable",
    a-rule-is-a-rule) type of system than professional hockey.
    
    And glenn, hockey *is* a sport, son.  Just like football, baseball,
    etc, etc, etc.  Unfortunately, you're right in that what you see on the
    news shows only one part of hockey, which tends to portray it as a
    sport of goons and fighters.  Believe me, for a hockey fan, this is
    infuriating.  Not only does hockey get relegated to the bottom of the
    sportscasters' priority list, but then they only show 30 seconds of
    clips and those tend to show only the fights.  But for this hockey fan,
    the true art of the sport is Rosie Ruzicka's end-to-end rush against
    Buffalo, or Bourque giving Espo his #7 and taking a new number, or
    Gretzky passing Gordie Howe's scoring record and looking for his
    nearest teammate to hug.  (sniff, sniff)  That's what hockey is all
    about.  
    
    Sorry to have gotten a bit soggy there, but I try to convert all
    non-hockey fans!   ;-)
    
    Cath

    
    
    	I'll tell ya why the NFL is *successful* isn the fighting
    department.......you can't punch through a facemask without
    mangling your hands!  ;^)
    
    Claybroon

    
    Until you have actually have played the game of hockey at some 
    organized level it is very difficult to understand why players 
    fight. It is played at a blood boiling pitch and at anytime you
    can get yer butt flattened. Just like in life there are your 
    assh*les who like to give you the stick. It's very hard to turn
    the other cheek, ecspecially when you got a hockey stick up
    your a*s. Anyway, it's easy for people to sit and watch and critisize,
    but take a two haner across your back, or a cross check to your
    face and then tell me what you'd do?
    
    
    
    
    Steve

Nothing wrong w/ 2 players going at it toe to toe. Fans love it, most
players don't mind it because it's a better way to let out his frustration
rather than spearing or slashing. Referees in football can't be 
considered better than the NHL's because there ain't as many squirmishes
or cheap shots to look out for (ie. they've got it easier in the NFL).

I for one find the NHL referees to be pretty good, it's the leagues
'rules and regulations' committee that's causing all the inconsistencies.



Andy

I have to disagree with Cath. I think most Hockey fans LIKE the fights.
I can't really consider myself a fan, but I catch a game now and then.
It seems to be part of the mystique, the tradition, and the excitement.

Whenever I listen to Baseball fans talk about a game, it's great
fielding plays, great hits, crucial fast balls, etc.

When Basketball fans talk hoops, it's in yo face stuffs, awesome
rejections, steals, pressure shots, etc.

Football fans talk about great hits, critical blocks, interceptions,
perfect passes, etc.

This is not to say that Hockey fans don't discuss and appreciate the
fine points of the game... but when I listen to Hockey fans talk, it's
mostly about fights, who's a goon, who high sticks, who's the enforcer, 
etc.

I have a sneaking suspicion that if the refs were to `read your lips'
and start running things so that you never had equipment all over the
ice and players rolling around fighting, attendance would drop off quite
a bit.

Mike JN

    Some better officiating in the NFL might be possbile due to the (yawn)
    snail's pace at which the game is played.  One has to admit that
    hockey is fast-paced.
    
    Another major indescrepancy: a player gets a 10-game suspension (ala
    Lyndon Byers) for coming off the bench, Milbury gets 5 games.  These
    are the rules and I can live with that, but why isn't there a rule 
    if a player on the ice comes by and bops someone on the bench?  And
    now back to that Flyers/Caps game: What about Paul Holmgrem trying
    to grab a Cap player going by?  These players/coaches get away with
    nothing.....if I'm sitting there minding my own p's and q's I'd
    get more than a little miffed at someone taking liberties.

>    Until you have actually have played the game of hockey at some 
>    organized level it is very difficult to understand why players 
>    fight. It is played at a blood boiling pitch and at anytime you
>    can get yer butt flattened. Just like in life there are your 
>    assh*les who like to give you the stick. It's very hard to turn
>    the other cheek, ecspecially when you got a hockey stick up
>    your a*s. Anyway, it's easy for people to sit and watch and critisize,
>    but take a two haner across your back, or a cross check to your
>    face and then tell me what you'd do?
    
At the risk of bringing up rugby and upsetting Bob Hunt [many 8^)],
if you substitute rugby in a couple of place up there, you've
got a very similar situation.

Fights don't break out that much in football because of all the protective
equipment.  

In rugby, there's a lot of stuff that can go on which would result in
fights.  Stomping is one thing.  Most refs I've seen will toss you for
that if they see it.  It's hard to see.

But in rugby, if you fight, you're out.  One ref controls 30 players, 
and most I've seen do a fairly good job.  The general rule of thumb
on HWRFC is that if an opponentn wants to fight, be sure you take one in the
face for the team.  If the ref sees it, the guy is gone, and you're
up a man.  If you take a second one in the face, and the ref hasn't
tossed him, beat the guy like a redheaded stepchild.... You'll both
go but you've got some satisfaction....

Hockey has fights because they've never had the guts to outlaw it.
Instead of taking a stand and potentially losing some fans, they'd
rather wallow around in the muddy murky waters they create with
all these little rules which dance around the edge of fighting...

JMHO,
'Saw

    
    Claybroon, you are sooooo right.  Fists making contact with metal face
    masks can't feel too good....unless you happen to enjoy pain.  And then
    I suppose you'd enjoy that.  Oh, well.
    
    But I want to clarify something else I said.  I mentioned football (as
    opposed to rugby, 'Saw)  :-) because the contact is similar.  In hockey
    you *do* have cheap shots, like a slash or an elbow.  I'm sure that
    this happens in football, too.  Not slashing or elbows, but similar
    types of cheap shots.  But in hockey, sometimes these penalties are
    called and sometimes they're not.  Sometimes they're seen and sometimes
    they're not (another rathole in and of itself).  What's a player to do? 
    He wants the player who nailed him to pay.  (POINT OF THIS DISSERTATION
    FORTHCOMING)  If NHL refs called these penalties consistently, then
    wouldn't the need for fighting be theoretically lessened?  A player who
    just got slashed, like Janney in the Quebec game, wouldn't have to
    retaliate if he knew that the other guy would be gone for 2 or 5
    minutes.  In football, cheap shots like roughing the passer or clipping
    tend to be called consistently, therefore letting the players know that
    the offender won't get away with it, most of the time.
    
    So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that in the NHL, a call needs to
    be made for all slashes, all elbows, all tripping, etc.  Linesmen
    should be able to make calls, therefore allowing for a more complete
    view of the action.  That would theoretically eliminate that "need to
    get even" mentality when something happens behind the play and a player
    gets miffed because a call wasn't made.  This "I called one on this
    team, now I'll call one on the other team" bullsh!t has to go; call
    them as you see them.  
    
    Just my opinion, of course.  But as an aside, relevant to this
    discussion, Denny Morel was the ref for Sunday's Chicago/Hartford game,
    which I believe was the game behind this debate.  And in classic Morel
    fashion, he let the chippy, cheap stuff go until it blew up in his
    face, resulting in a lot of fighting and ugliness.  If those
    infractions/dirty plays/penalties had been called early and
    consistently, we may have seen a really decent game, as opposed to what
    happened.
    
    Cath, who is really psyched for this topic.  NHL refs are one of my
    biggest pet peeves (as if you hadn't noticed)  :-)
    

    As I've discovered after playing 4 years of football and 9 years of
    rugby, there are plenty of clean ways to get even for a cheapshot - and
    if you have to resort to being cheap there are subtle ways of doing it.

>    As I've discovered after playing 4 years of football and 9 years of
>    rugby, there are plenty of clean ways to get even for a cheapshot - and
>    if you have to resort to being cheap there are subtle ways of doing it.

Amen.

My first and foremost goal is just to hit 'em so hard the next time
I get the chance that they kinda crunch.  Usually they get the picture.



Cath, 

I used the rugby comparison because a) there is hard contact (if you
doubt it, go to a few games) and b) the officiating crew is similar:
a ref, two line judges.  However, line judges have much less power
that linesman in hockey.  Football has a plethoria of officials for
an essentially finite state game.

Rugby has 30 players on the pitch, and I've yet to see a ref lose
control.  Sometimes they go the other way ( and call a game *way* to
tight) but never as bad as an NHL ref.


And who reffed the Whalers game last night?  He almost lost control
in that one too.....

'Saw

    
    Well, the "dead things" road woes continued last night.  They go
    into Hartford and get mugged by the Whalers 6-2.  Francis has the
    hat trick.  What really irked me about this game is Verbeek mugging
    Garpenlov.  Garpenlov has not had a fight in his entire pro career,
    wears a face shield and Verbeek jumps him.  Yzerman comes in to break
    up the mis-match and gets ejected for being the 3rd man in.
    
    Also, Bryan Murray took a puck in the side of the face.  He had to be
    taken to the dressing room to be patched up.
    
    \pjb   Hope your happy 'saw

Well, I've stated it in here many times.  I don't like fighting in the
NHL, or in sport in general.

Aside from all the fighting, Detroit played like shit, and their goalie
was a seive...;^)

I didn't see the fight in question, but I do know that Probert was not
an angle last night either.

I still feel that anyone who fights (both agressor and agressee) should
be tossed.  If that starts happening, then fighting will quickly cease.

And I agree with Cath, the stupid zebras should start calling stuff
consistently.....

'Saw

>>I still feel that anyone who fights (both agressor and agressee) should
>>be tossed.  If that starts happening, then fighting will quickly cease.

Saw,

No way, man.  All this 3rd man in crap, off the bench, etc. has only come into
the game since fighting really got out of hand.  Instead of attacking the
symptoms, they should attack the problem, which is the Professional Goons.
They should have a way of rating them so that once a player becomes a goon,
he's out of the league - period.  This would only leave fights that start
naturally when you're bumping around at +25 miles an hour, and that is as much
a part of the game as anything else.  

>>And I agree with Cath, the stupid zebras should start calling stuff
>>consistently.....

Come off it - obviously the refs. call different games as so much of it is
judgment.  But, hey, every player knows whos on the lineup card before the
game including the refs. and they should adjust their styles to suit the ref
or pay the consequences.  It's pretty tough to cover action that quick 
basically alone in a rink so large.  Hell, compare it to football where there
are 7 or 8 officials on the field and they STILL regularly screw up.

rick

    
    Hockey has had goons and problems with fighting absolutely forever.
    They've changed names over the years, and tried different ways of
    reducing the number of fights.  So far, nothing has worked.  I'm
    not sure that anything will work completely.  Played well, hockey
    is a beautiful game.  Played with chippiness and inconsistent ref
    calls, you get fights.
    
    'Saw's analogy to rugby is pretty apt.  Emotional content, force
    of hits, and number of officials are very similar between the two
    sports.  The difference is that rugby does not tolerate fights,
    period, full stop.  That's probably what it will take to get fighting
    stopped in the NHL.  There will be times when that means that an
    innocent star gets tossed (especially while players are adjusting
    to the new rules).  But somewhere along the line, when neither team
    can do line changes 'cause everyone else is in the dressing room,
    or the game has been called 'cause the only folks left on the ice
    are the goalies, players and managers will start to realize that
    fighting is counter-productive.
    
    I don't expect to ever see it happen.
    
    A&W

I totally disagree.

Why allow fighting?  It's the only sport outside of boxing where you
can hit an opponent, do physical damage with your fists, and get
sent to the sin bin for five minutes.

If you do it in baseball, they toss you and most likely suspend you.

If you could do it in basketball (hoopsters don't fight, they slap
and scalp massage) you get tossed and suspended.

If you do it in rugby you're out.

If you do it in soccer you're out.

If you do it in football, you are likely to get tossed out.

If you do it in World Championship Chess you get tossed out.

If you do it in Full-Contact Pictionnary you get tossed out.

Why allow it in hockey?  Tradition?  bull-hooey.  Goalies not wearing
masks was tradition until guys like Bobby Hull came along, and that
tradition went down the tubes.  Now everyone wears a helmet.
Why not bring the rest of the sport into the 20th century too.

A ref isn't going to make every call.  They're human.  But to let
blatant calls that happen right in front of them go is unconscionable....

'Saw

    The ref for last night's Whailers/Dead Wings game was Mark Faucette;
    another schmuck!  I've always observed that if a ref calls a penalty
    in the opening minutes (on both teams) that the game can go on with
    relatively few incidences.  This sends a clear message that if you
    commit a penalty you're going to the box.  Like a child with a parent,
    they push to see just how far they can go.
    
    Now on the other hand; I have to say that Bill McCreary called a
    really good game last night at the Forum.
    
    On a completely different note:
    
    Did anyone else see the story on last night's Channel 4 news about
    that young NH boy who was hit in the head with a puck? (Wasn't wearing
    a helmet!)  Apparently a couple hours later his parents ended up
    bringing him to the hospital.  The poor kid is now paralyzed on one
    side and can't talk.  Excellent story on his sheer determination to
    get better and return to the game.

    The Montreal Canadiens were 25-0 this season in games in which they led
    in the 2nd period.
    
    
    Until last night, that is.

    Ya but they didn't lead after the second period...  They were tied
    3-3....

    WAD MATER WID U GUYZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOCKY IS FOR MEN WHO NOW THEY
    MAN!!!  NO DRESS LIKE SAW WIF FRILS!! !TINI EASYOFF BE HOOKEY PLIER
    BEFU LEDING PATS AND JESTZ!!!! FIFTING B GUD FER HOKEY??  MEMBER BO
    DEREK SANDPAPERSEN????? HE FIGH SCORE 50 60 20 GULS A NEGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!
    HE NO WIMP LUK ASW!   BROOOONS FOGHT MUR WEN TEY WON STANLEES CUP TEN
    KNOW N NO FOUGHT NO ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    

Jo --

Was the kid playing?  Or was he a spectator at a game?


Head injuries are never NOT serious, and are almost always unpredictable.
I got wanged in the head once in a game, but becuase it was a blindside
head to head collision in a ruck, I was more suprised.

When I looked at the guy who did it, his eyes were rolling back in 
his haid, and I just reached out and pushed him, and he fell over like
a sack of potatoes.

Heh, heh, heh, says the Saw to himself, I got the better of that one.

Two minutes later my head felt like I'd been hit wif a sledgehammer,
and I got wicked nauseous and lightheaded.  I played through it, 
but didn't feel like myself for the rest of the day.


Head injuries should always be looked at....

'Saw

    Trying to organize a Pens-by-Satelite party and it seems that the
    Bahstahn games come in regularly off the feeds.  Can someone post the
    Bruins' remaining games with Pittsburgh.
    
    Many thanks!
    
    	--dan'l

    Bruins vs the Penguins series is over for this season unless they
    happen to meet in the conference finals.  Tie game 3-3 in Boston on
    November 10, Pens win 6-2 on February 2 and Da Broons won 6-3 in Boston
    on February 3.  Total goals - Pittsburgh 12, Boston 11.
    
    Ninj

    'Saw,
    
    The kid was playing..
    
    I guess the story was so touching because they showed him going
    through therapy and you could clearly see the pain in his face.
    Since he can't talk they were interviewing his father.  The
    reporter asked if he was going to play hockey again and the father
    made a wry face and said "We'll see".  However, since he was sitting
    on the hospital bed with his son you could clearly see the little
    guys head nod up and down to signify yes.....followed by a huge
    smile.

Saw,

It depends on *how* you can get your revenge as well.  In football, a nice
little knee to the groin or clothesline will do it, in baseball the pitchers
just wing one at a guys head at 100 mph, etc..  That's oddly one of the things
I've always liked about hockey:  it's not a cheapshot for a cheapshot.  If you
get fed up with a guy bothering you, just whap him in the haid!

In fact, professional goonism is a new problem that has arisen since expansion,
remember?  People wanted that as part of the entertainment, especially since
many of them couldn't follow the play because it was so fast!!  Now they show
the highlights of the fights on TV along with the highlights of the game!

Before expansion, the Goons were also pretty good hockey players.  In fact,
their roles were to protect the little guys when they were picked on.  What's
different these days is that the Goons can't play hockey, never could play
hockey, and are just good fighters on skates.

So that's why I'm saying that if there was a way to determine a pro Goon and
kick him out, that would solve the problem.  Things would then revert to the
pre 70s situation with respect to fighting.

To say that it should be stopped completely is exactly like saying no more
field goals in football or no more foul shots in basketball.  Fighting in 
hockey, unlike the other sports, is *part of the game*.  I'm not sure if you
understand the connection between some good clean body checking which flares
up the tempers and turns into a scrap - it's normal that it happens.

In football or rugby, you can vent your anger by going in a bit harder on the
next play or by a cheapshot, but in hockey the hitting keeps increasing until 
it explodes sometimes.  

Finally, some of the fights have been amazing over the years.  Hell, I 
remember "standing room only in the penalty box", Tim Horton winning the 
wrestling matches, the goalies getting in it (especially Giacomin), John
Ferguson clobbering Bobby Hull, fighting *behind* the penalty benches, etc.
It's part of the game, we should leave it as it is, but limit the Goons.

rick

    I agree about the pre-expansion NHL. Guys like Stan Mikita, for
    example, would get into some scraps, but were able to play the game! It
    might have been Dave Schultz who was the first pure goon, but ever
    since then, just about every team has at least one guy who can do
    nothing but fight. 
    
    Maybe the best solution is to reduce the roster size by one, since this
    gut is the LEAST skilled player on the team he would go. Also, if they
    did not allow teams to replace *suspended* players, the game would
    clean up pretty fast.
    
    Tom

    Stan Mikita was one great cnter who got into a lot of fights early in
    his career. He evolved quickly into one of the most feared and loathed
    hatchet men during the mid/late 60's to early 70's. Not commenting
    on his greatness, tho, as he was a great passer and scorer. 
    In the stick dept.he equalled or surpassed other hatchet men like
    Bobby Clarke or Kenny Linseman.
    
    
    JMHO,
    MikeL
    

    Mikita developed the art of "needling". He'd just keep at it until the
    guy lost the head and attacked him for what looked like no apparent
    reason usually drawing a major or double minor thus giving Chicago a
    good long time with the man advantage. If he got the penalty himself
    then he could usually drag the other guy in with him nullifying the
    advantage. I think he was the first guy to really develop the "tip in"
    as an art form. He could knock a puck out of the air and deflect it
    into the net better than any one I ever saw, with the exception of Phil
    Esposito.
    
    Ted.
    
    

I know a guy who used to play against Gordie Howe in the old WHA.

He has always said that Gordie was the master of the hidden elbow.
If you got within range, Howe would get ya, but he'd get ya when the
ref wasn't looking, or when it wasn't really blatant.  He said Howe could
hit you as hard with a short stroke elbow as most guys who had to 
wind up.

To add some fodder to the "Who's Better Gretzky or Howe" debate,
he said that Howe was a better all around player than Gretzky, while
Gretzky is primarily an offensive powerhouse...

fwiw,
'Saw

    
    If you start tossing guys for fighting in the NHL then I believe
    you are crossing a dangerous line. I feel this is what will happen.
    Player A is the leading scorer on his team, Player B who is on the
    opposite team couldn't score a goal with a bazooka. The coach of
    Player B's team say's to himself....Hmmmmmmm wouldn't it be nice
    to play this team without Player A on the ice? YES IT WOULD!!!!
    Hey Player B, sharpen up those double runners and get into a fight
    with that steenkin Player A over there, he's scoring to many goals.
    Now Player A may re-strain himself from a various number of cheap
    shots, but for how long? How much do you take? Player A inevitably
    fights with Player B and there both tossed for the game. Well now
    Player A's team is so furious at this, that all hell breaks loose
    and everyone's tossed except for the goalies who have a game of
    one on one. Just kidding, but you can see what would happen if you
    started an automatic ejection rule for fighting. And don't think
    for one minute that a NHL coach wouldn't try and take advantage
    of a rule like that. And when was any call in any sport a good call
    when left up to the referee's discretion. The game is too fast to
    keep a watchful eye on everyone, and the lineman could help but
    thier #1 priority is watching the lines. It's a tough situation
    and a bad one for the sport of hockey. It is a great game to play
    and to watch ecspecially when the cheap stuff and the fighting is
    not abound.
    
    
    
    
    Steve
    
    

Just take it farther.

Eventually it evolves into something similar to the unwritten goalie
rule.

Team A's goalie is behind the net outta the crease to clear the puck.
According to the rules he's legitimately eligible to be checked.
999 time out of 1000 he isn't.  Why?  Because the other team would feel
the need to even the score.

So, if Team A's enforcer "removes" Team B's leading scorer, then Team
B feels compelled to do the same.  Ultimately, like two superpowers with
their fingers on the Button, the two will learn that it's a stalemate.


'Saw

    
    Perhaps Saw, perhaps. It may work but you forget some of the IQ's
    these guy's posses!! 
    
    
    
    Steve

That's absolutely how the things started to go down the drain in the first
place, after expansion when talent was watered down from it's previous state:

- Player A, who couldn't score with a bazooka (we'll call him Dave Schultz,
  and I agree Ted he was the first real goon:  couldn't skate, shoot, talk,
  think) takes a run at Player B, one of the guys I mentioned who were hockey
  players but also could fight.  You mentioned Howe, 'Saw, for example.

- Player A and B get sent off for 10 minutes each, and there you go.  Even
  when the extra two minutes for the instigator was added, it hasn't helped
  all that much as it's difficult to be sure of who did what.

That's why I suggested some sort of Goon rating that could be applied to a
whole season - for example 250 or 300 penalty minutes comes out to 4-5
games in the box.  That's overduing it by any standards.  If players who got
a certain number of minutes in a *certain number of games* over the season
they become ineligible for the next season.  None of this 5 games BS - that
doesn't really deter very much.

Also, you mentioned Howe and Gretzky, 'Saw.  It's a tough one because you had
to be a better all-around player in those days to survive - the game was just
different than today.  Secondly, I think the evolution in equipment - sticks,
skates, etc.. adds to Gretzky's advantage.  I guess in the end I'd pick Gretzky
because of the anticipation.  Unreal.

rick

    In soccer in England, if a player gets a YELLOW card (warning) he gets
    1 point added to his badboy total. A RED card means your thrown out of
    the game with 2 points to your total. If you get 2 YELLOW cards in the
    same game that equals a RED and you're thrown out.
    
    If your badboy points total 20, you get suspended for 1 or 2 games, I'm
    not sure about the number. But this isn't wiped out at the end of the
    year, each player carries his badboys points over into the next season.
    I like that.
    
    Ted.

    Anyone watch the Flyers/Devils game Saturday?  The reason I ask is
    there were two major fights at the same time a New Jersey and
    Philadelphia player were sticking each other (slashing, spearing).
    The color commentator, Peter McNab made a very good point:  You
    ban fighting and the stickwork will probably take its place.  When
    it comes down to the two, I'd rather see the stickwork out of the
    game.
    
    Oh, and for those DEVILS FANS, THEY WON!!!! 3-2!
    
    Bruins become the first team to clinch a playoff berth after beating
    L.A. 5-4 in overtime.
    
    Wailers get whooped by the Rangers Friday, come back to beat
    Montr�al 2-1 Saturday.
    
    Pat LaFontaine has requested to be traded....wonder what lucky
    team will get him.
    
    Minnesota shuts out Detroit Saturday, 3-0.
    
    Grant Fuhr returns tonight.
    

>Also, you mentioned Howe and Gretzky, 'Saw.  It's a tough one because you had
>to be a better all-around player in those days to survive - the game was just
>different than today.  Secondly, I think the evolution in equipment - sticks,
>skates, etc.. adds to Gretzky's advantage.  I guess in the end I'd pick Gretzky
>because of the anticipation.  Unreal.

Which is one of the prime reasons why I try to avoid comparing greats
from different eras.  The times change, the game changes, and I try to
enjoy Howe for the marvel of his longevity and scoring prowess, and Gretzky
for his ballet like approach to the game (and his bitchin' cool wife).....


Whalers played a helluva hockey game against Montreal on Saturday.  They
won 2-1, but were extremely good in the checking department, and in getting
in on the net.

Ladouceur schooled one of the Habs who decided to go a round or two.

If the Flounders could be consistent, they might do well the rest of
this year.  Who knows.

Still hearing trade rumors around Francis.  If he goes, I'll start rooting
for the Broons again (like I used to prior to 1979) because you don't trade
the Franchise just because the coach has an ego problem....(which is what
I think this whole Francis thing is with Ley....)

Ley s_cks!

'Saw

    Would love to see LaFontaine in Detroit, but they're too busy trading
    for guys like Brad Marsh.  Not sure if we need him though, really.
    
    I remember when everyone in Detroit was upset because they past the
    local boy (LaFontaine) up in the draft for some guy they hadn't heard
    of named Yzerman.  I'll still take that one.
    
    Fuhr came back by shutting out the Debils...

    St. Louis Blues clinched a playoff spot lasted night. (Second team to
    do so!)
    
    

    Da Broons have been holding closed practice sessions in nearby Tempe
    the past few days.  Andy Moog said in yesterday's paper that da Broons
    are really enjoying Phoenix's golf courses.
    
    Mike

    GOSH!!!!!  I'm really pleased that the Bruins are getting in a round of
    golf or two. (Sarcasm intended) 
    
    Ted.

    	Come on Ted, after this little soujourn the Broons will not
    be able to play golf until late May early June...

Hartford traded Doug Crossman yesterday for Doug Houda of Detroit.

Houda had 2 goals, 9 assists last year for 11 points, and about 127 pm
if I remember correctly.

Cheevers said on Sports Channel last night that EJ must be taking 
lessons from Esposito, because he's made so many trades lately.

I guess Crossman was the vaunted offensive defensemen the team
wanted but didn't produce.  With Adam Burt out for the season,
they needed someone else.

Anyone know anything else about this Houda guy?


Also, saw Tancill(sp) get his first NHL goal last night - shorthanded
against the Habs.  Pretty, pretty play.....

'Saw

    The Broons may be in first place now, but I belive that St Louis has
    played 3 less games and are only 1pt back.....If they win 1 of the 3
    they pass the Broons....Id like to see the broons take overall best
    recorad (home ice thruout playoffs and stanly CUP) but ST Louis may
    have something to say about that....(I guess for now Boston has to
    just worry about beating chicago).
    								MaB
    

    Oopps thats 2 games, Boston is at Chicago tonight and the Blues have
    the NY Islanders at home....The bruins are in a must win....and who
    knows maybe the Islanders have one good game in them somewhere....

    Last night, the Minnesota Northstars held the Edmonton Oilers SHOTLESS
    in the second period and won the game 5-1!  Would anyone happen to know
    who the goalie was?  (Fuhr, Ranford, or Takko?)
    
    Any news on Reaugh??  I hate to see goaltenders leave games....

�    Any news on Reaugh??  I hate to see goaltenders leave games....

Early in the first period there was a tangle up of skates.  As he was
trying to free himself, and get into a position to block a shot,
he strained his back!  Bummer.

To his credit, the DORK did play a helluva game in relief.

Tancill scored his first NHL goal.  He was one very happy player.....

'Saw

    Thanks for the news....I saw Tancill score his goal.  I always *love*
    to see rookies get their first NHL goal.  Scoring a shorthanded one
    against Les Habs must've also been special.  The one I think I recall
    best was Bob Beers' last year in the first round of the playoffs.
    That one and everytime Don Sweeney scores one....he's gotta be the
    only player who has a huge smile everytime!!!

    RE:212
    
      Ranford played for Edmonton last night. I think that one of the big
    reasons for the low shot count for Edmonton was the fact that Messier
    did not play. I heard that he has an injured thumb but I haven't heard
    how bad it is.
    
    Dennis

    Re: Bruins
    
    Speaking of Beers, what's the scoop with him?  Is he hurt or just still
    playing up in Maine?  I can't imagine he's any worse than Jim (knuckle 
    sandwich taste beddy good) Wiemer.  For that matter, Pederson should be
    out there as well.
    
    					Steve

    I just wish the Broons held open practices while here.  I haven't seen
    them in years.
    
    Mike

       The practices weren't open? They showed dozens of people watching
    them on the news earlier in the week. According to the Sports guy they
    were open.
                                          Denny

I guess they didn't help.  They lost to Chicago lasted night.....

    	Hey it was all those stink bombs the Chicago fans threw behind
    the Broons bench.  After a while they started playing like it. 
    The effects of this mini-vacation will reap the dividends in April
    when the hockey season really starts.
    
    				/Don

    If it weren't for Lemelin, the score would have hit double digits.  It 
    was obvious that the layoff affected their timing, added to the fact
    that Chicago played an outstanding game.
    
    SOunds like the Chicago fans had a spitting contest last night, with
    Milbury being the target.  On to St. Louis tomorrow night.
    
    					Steve

    Steve,
    
    The B's/Hawks games didn't reach double digits, but the Leafs/Penguins
    game did:  11-4.

    Wheels, I could have sworn I saw Toronto leading 3-0 in the 2nd.  You
    mean the Pens scored 11 goals in 30 minutes?
    
    Mark

    Mark,
    
    I didn't see the game ('twas too busy watching the Broons get
    embarrassed).
    
    The game was definitely that high with Mario Lemieux getting
    a hat trick.
    
    

    
    
    The Leafs were up 3-0 after 30 minutes...
    
    The Penguins outs scored the 11-1 in the last 30 minutes!!!!!!!!
    The Penguins scored 6 goals in just over 7 minutes in the second
    period! The scored 4 more in 2:41 in the third...
    
    
    Lemieux....1 goal...3 assists
    
    
    
    Jim

According to rec.sport.hockey and friends in Pgh, there's some interesting 
rumours flying (ha. get it?) about the Penguins.  The owner, DeBartolo (also 
owner of the 49ers), has suffered considerable losses lately due to the
downturn in real estate.  Some suggest that DeBartolo made Campeau, 
the guy who bought Jordan Marsh etc with junk bonds, a mega-buck
personal loan.  Campeau is in bankruptcy court.  Mall development is an
incestuous business and Campeau and DeBartolo were probably in bed together
there too.

With the Pens expected to have one of the highest salary rolls soon,
DeBartolo may be trying to get out.  Mario and Coffey are signed at 
$2M and $500K, but Cullen (in top 10 in scoring) and Recchi (in top 
10 in scoring) and Stevens (in top 10 in scoring...familiar refrain 
yet?) are all in their option years and looking for megabucks themselves.

Thus, the Pens may be for sale.  There are also rumors that the '9ers
may be for sale!  

DeBartolo won't get whole lot of sympathy in Pittsburgh.  His indifference 
towards the Pens is part of the reason they have done so poorly for so 
long as he hired ludicrously inexperienced people (in hockey) to run the
organization.  Pittsburgh, which has a long history of disliking millionaire
sports figures, was squarely on the side of Mario in his contract discussion.
I attended one of the games in which we chanted for 10+ minutes, "Sign 
Lemieux!"  This chant was only dropped for an almost equally popular chant,
"DeBartolo sucks!".  Lemieux said later that "He was really happy the fans 
were on his side."  But in his typical gracious fashion, he did ask that 
the fans refrain from attacking DeBartolo.

The supposed buyer is Compuware in Detroit.  On one hand, this seems like
a positive ownership change.  Compuware has a long-term interest in hockey.
They were behind the (failed) St Petersburg expansion bid.  They own a team
in the OMJHL.

On the other hand, DeBartolo has shown more interest in the team lately.
He's been attending games, he's said he wants a Stanley Cup to go with his
Lombardi trophies, and he's paid big bucks for Mario and Paul.  Even more
impressively, he's paying an over-the-hill Trottier $400k (something like
that) just to bring more playoff experience to the team.

On the other hand (this is the third hand now), due to an amazing
bit of luck and providence, the Penguins FINALLY have a world-class
management team.  Craig Patrick, Scotty Bowman, and Badger Bob
Johnson make up a team that is commonly regarded as one of the best in
the NHL.  If Compuware buys the team, Craig Patrick is out.  Jim 
Rutherford desperately wants to become a GM, and he will almost 
certainly be given that job by Karmanos.  And then?  Why, Bob Johnson 
hits the road.  He's only here because of Patrick.  And then we're 
right back where we started from.  Supposedly Rutherford was on a
local radio station, and when asked what would happen to current 
management, he hemmed and hawed and said "well, you have to decide who 
has a role and who doesn't, and see who fits in and who doesn't". 
Bad news for the Pens.

As far as I know the purchase hasn't happened, but it's not looking
good.

In brighter news, Mario is gradually rounding into form.  Although he
only has 7 goals and 13 assists in 10 games, he's had consecutive 4
point games.


Charlie
    

    re: -1
    
    Charlie,
    
    Last weeks's THN said that several NHL teams could be for sale!  The
    ones that were listed are: Edmonton, Quebec, Winnipeg, New Jersey (to
    which owner John McMullen denies) Hartford and possibly St. Louis.
    
    This weeks issue says that the Penguins owner is denying that the
    team is for sale.
    
    And just a minor nit:  Coffey is making 900k, not 500k.
    
    Top 10:
    
    1. Gretzky		$3,300,000
    2. Lemieux		$2,330,000
    3. Hull		$1,360,000
    4. Yzerman		$1,300,000
    5. Bourque		$1,190,000
    6. Savard		$1,087,500
    7. Stevens		$1,058,000
    8. Roy		$1,044,000
    9. Coffey		$  900,000
    10.Chelios		$  865,000

Whalers sucked up big time this weekend.

After sweeping a series with Montreal, they only managed to pick up
1 of a possible 4 points with Buffalo.

Saturday's games was the most frustrating. They outshot the Sabres
40-16, but still lost 5-4.  Last night in the 3rd they went up by 
a goal twice, but still managed only a tie....

Bummer...

'Saw

    In a move that was somewhat expected, Michael Thelvin of the Bruins
    retired from NHL after 2.5 years of attempted knee rehabilitation.
    I had been holding out hope he'd make it back, at least for this year's
    playoffs.  I'm not sure what the Swedishman's future plans are.
    
    					Steve  

��        <<< Note 7.229 by BUILD::MORGAN "The Mother of All Retreats" >>>


Steve...I love that personal name string!  


The Whalers stunk up the joint last night.  I guess that rarefied air
in 3rd place must have them reeling.  They are a mere point ahead
of Buffalo, since Buffalo tied with the Islanders.

The way I see it, the Whalers don't have what it takes to get past the
first round again this year.  

The Whalers goaltending is shaky.  Reaugh is good, I like him, and with
experience, he'd be okay, but neither of the Whalers' goalies approach
the caliber of a Fuhr, a Roy, or the SynthesizerMan in Boston.

Added to that you've got the defense problems.  The Whalers wasted a 
trade for Crossman.  At least we recouped a bit with Houda.  We still
need a good (will never have a GREAT) offensive defenseman.

We've got three good goal scorers.  Verbeek, Francis and Brown.  If we
split up that line, I think productio would go down.  We're already 
18th in offense!

Holik, the vaunted Messiah, is learning the game.  He ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYs
hold the *@!*&^ing puck TOO LONG.  I'm not impressed.

Dineen is not at 100% and who knows if he ever will be....


Bottom line what I think this organization should do is tell the fans,
"Look we've got a three year rebuilding plan going here.  Don't expect
anything in that time"  and then go do it.  All this hype, all these
promises are just leaving a real bad taste in the fans mouths....


'Saw

    What HAVE they been telling the fans in WhaleLand? Realistically, a 3rd
    place finish, I would think, is prety good. Face it, they really aren't
    at the same level as the Bs and Habs ...(yet?) Personallly I would have
    picked them for 4th, but I didn't realize Buffalo would miss Housley
    that much. Granted, it's been a mess this year, and it seems to me they
    should get rid of Ley before anything, but even in the best of
    circumstances, the team ain't THAT good....
    
    I realize there's a lot of promotion by the front office to get people
    interested to buy tix, but if they were purporting the charade that the
    Whale were legit contendahs with the top teams, and if people actually 
    expected this..... Maybe there IS truth to the rumour that all Whale 
    fans are claims adjusaters for the 4th largest insurance company in the 
    country, and know all about actuarial torts and commercial premiums (and 
    brie), but know NOTHING about hockey. 
    
    
    What's that again about fooling all the poeple some of the time, etc.?
    
    Tom  

Well, Tom, it's like this.

The Whalers fans have been clamoring for a good team for a while.
It's a well known fact that Emile Francis has a superb knack for bringing
the most atrocious teams to a level of mediocrity and then stopping there.

So, they brought in EJ, and the expectation level raised by the front
office was that this team was going to take off.  It didn't.
Okay, we played the Bruins in an exciting series last spring, but lost.

So, then they bring in Holik.  The radio ads would have made you puke.
The all but brought him into the city on a burro spreading palm fronds
in front of him.

The hype has been there, bigtime.  And the ticket prices have again
gone up.  Quite honestly, the people in this town who know about hockey
can't always afford to go.  The suits who can afford it, wouldn't know
a puck from a duck from a.....    I can't afford too many nights at
$15 bucks a pop to sit in the rafters.

The attitude down here is that the Whalers made a big deal about overhauling
the organization.  They kept saying we're getting the best minds in here to
make the decisions, we're gonna get a no-nonsense coach, we're gonna go places.

Well, for all of that the team is still a whisker below .500, a point about
their regular slot in 4th, and not showing all that many signs of 
improvement from last year.   That, coupled with a first round bow out
in the playoffs should spell big trouble for Rick Ley and the rest of
the front office.

The fans are restless.  All we've seen is a ticket price increase, so
that we're paying more money to see the same mediocre brand of hockey
that we've been plagues with since 1979.  It certainly ain't the Decade
of the Fan as we've been led to believe.


A third place finish might help, but not bowing out in the first
round of the playoffs would surely go a long way towards building 
credibility....

Personally, I think we finish fourth, and lose to Boston in the first
round 4-1.

I'd be willing to take that disappointment if they'd get a GOOD coach
in here....

'saw

    re .232:
    
    All that being said 'Saw, I still think that Buffalo has disappointed
    this year moreso than the Whale...at least a couple publications picked
    the Sabres to win the Adams Division.
    
    
    py

>    All that being said 'Saw, I still think that Buffalo has disappointed
>    this year moreso than the Whale...at least a couple publications picked
>    the Sabres to win the Adams Division.

Oh, without a doubt.

The Hartford "phenomenon" is a highly localized thing.  The rest of the
NHL sees Hartford as a C team at best.   It's just the Hartford front
office, and behind the bench personnel who have expanded the fans
expectations over the last two years.

I'll go on record with this:  If Hartford bows out in the first round (again)
Rick Ley is history.

'Saw

    re: .231 (Tom)
    
    What's that again about fooling....
    
    
    You can fool SOME of the people ALL of the time,
    You can fool ALL of the people SOME of the time,
    But you can't fool ALL of the people ALL of the time.
    
    'Saw,
    
    Hartford at least only lost by *1* in overtime.  How about Pittsburgh
    getting shelled by the Kings 8-2??  OUCH!!!
    
    re: Micheal Thelven
    
    Wah! 8^(  It was either another operation or retirement.  The paper
    said if he was younger (he's 30) he would have had another operation.
    Too bad, because I loved to watch him play; and was crushed as I (not
    knowing at the time) watched him leave the ice in the last game he
    played.

Well, about a week ago, the Whalers Flight went up above 30,000 feet,
into third place.

Wouldn't you know that a seal blew out, and the cabin lost pressure.

The Oxygen masks dropped down and the team had to use them.

Last night, the stewardess announced the plane was below 14,000 feet,
back in fourth, and they could take off the masks.


I cannot believe it.  They SUCKED last night.  In the last four games
the Whalers have let in 5, 5, 5, and 6 goals.  NOT good.  They beat
Montreal home and home, sucked home and home against Buffalo, and
then stunk up the joint against Winnipeg and Chicago.

The only consolation for me is that I can see the Wicked Witch's Hourglass
running out on Rick Ley.  Nothing could make me happier than seeing
him get the axe.....

'Saw

      Was Whitemore in the nets for their lasted(tm) game? I read
    that the Whale had called him up to fill in for the injured Raugh(sp?)
      He's been hotter than hot for Springfield. Maybe he can stay hot
    and re-seal the cabin leak.
    
    Bull~
    

Nope, it was THE DORK.

I know he's been hot for Springfield.  Hope he could stay hot for us.....

Oh well....

'Saw

    
    'Saw, what the hell happened to Skidorkawitz? He was a hot goaler
    lasted season. I don't think that Kay Skidmore is the answer either.
    Reagh has looked good at times but he is not ready to be an everyday
    goalie. Maybe the Whale should consider a trade? They have alot
    of muscle players, maybe they could package one with a foward? 
    
    On an aside, I feel alot of the Whalers' problems stem from them
    trying to mold thier team to the Bruins. They should seek out thier
    own identity. By this I mean, find a coach who doesn't coach like
    a Bruins coach would. Dump and grind, chippy, show the other team
    that your tough, that kind of a game. I really thought the Whalers
    were coming into thier own last season. They were playing a skating
    style that really suited them, it kind of dissapeared. The Bruins
    have seemed to have gotten away from the "tough" game and tried
    to play a more disciplined "defensive" style which suitsd the current
    squad. This is unbelievable, being that Mike"I'll fight anyone on
    skates" Swillbury is the coach. He is actually doing a great job.
    Sinden was lucky choosing ex-players as coaches. It just doesn't
    seem to be working out in Ley's case. 
    
    
    Steve

    Some goalie last night (?) did a split to black a shot.....
    He never got up.. Ripped his hamstring right off the bone...
    
    REK

�    'Saw, what the hell happened to Skidorkawitz? He was a hot goaler
�    lasted season. I don't think that Kay Skidmore is the answer either.
�    Reagh has looked good at times but he is not ready to be an everyday
�    goalie. Maybe the Whale should consider a trade? They have alot
�    of muscle players, maybe they could package one with a foward? 


Every year, in the Spring, Sid has a slump then comes back for the
playoffs.  It's like clockwork.  Whitmore has done well in the AHL,
then sucks up the joint in the NHL.  Reaugh needs a lot of playing
time to be good, and Ley won't give it to him.

The trade was talked of a lot, but I believe yesterday was the
trading deadline.


�    On an aside, I feel alot of the Whalers' problems stem from them
�    trying to mold thier team to the Bruins. They should seek out thier
�    own identity. By this I mean, find a coach who doesn't coach like
�    a Bruins coach would. Dump and grind, chippy, show the other team
�    that your tough, that kind of a game. I really thought the Whalers
�    were coming into thier own last season. They were playing a skating
�    style that really suited them, it kind of dissapeared. The Bruins
�    have seemed to have gotten away from the "tough" game and tried
�    to play a more disciplined "defensive" style which suitsd the current
�    squad. This is unbelievable, being that Mike"I'll fight anyone on
�    skates" Swillbury is the coach. He is actually doing a great job.
�    Sinden was lucky choosing ex-players as coaches. It just doesn't
�    seem to be working out in Ley's case. 
�    


The Whalers are not a finesse squad at the moment.  They have a couple
of speed players (Krygier, Andersson, perhaps Cunneyworth) but don't
have a lot of finesse.

I agree, whatever mold Ley is trying to make them into (an image of
himself perhaps?  Gawd I HOPE NOT) ain't working.

I would seriously accept a first round playoff loss after a fourth
place finish if it would get Rick Ley the hell outta Dodge.

The "Whaler Old Boy Network" has to be broken up for this team EVER to
have a chance....

Terry Crisp, where ARE you!!!!!


'Saw    
    Steve

Well, Gang Green(tm) finally stunk up the place so bad this weekend
that *I* even got disgusted.

With an opportunity at 4 badly needed points (especially since Buffalo
got hot) they went into Quebec City.

The Quebec fans reached new lows Sat nite, but that's a different story.

Up 3-2 with scants seconds left, the Whalers got excited about the
empty net, completely forgetting Kip Miller.  Miller snuck behind the
snoozing defense, and Whammo....3-3.

Last night with the struggling Leafs coming into the GangGreenDome,
they were leading 4-3 late in the 3rd, when Whammo....4-4.

In short, the Whalers screwed the pooch, bit the bag and stepped
out the door.....

That 4th place finish looks stronger and stronger now, and a chance
to get shellacked by the Broons.

I hope Ley gets fired.

'Saw 

    'Saw,
    
    re: -1
    
    In regards to the Quebec fans reaching a new low; I have to agree
    with ya 110% in that one.  I was watching the game and couldn't
    believe the stunts the Quebec fans were pulling.  Disgusting in
    every sense of the word.

I was disgusted with their treatment of Francis.

He got crunched on the boards by a cheap shot from Gillis, taking
the rail in the lower back.  He skated two strides and went down in 
a heap.

The PA played a baby crying while they worked on him.

First off, it's always been poor sportsmanship, I think, to cheer
when someone gets injured.  This is even worse.

Second, I've been hit in the back in a similar fashion, and exactly
what happened to Francis happens: you take about two steps and
everything goes numb.  It's not only impossible to walk, but you're
damn scared too!

No wonder one of Quebec's AHL players refused the call to come up!

'Saw

I was also disgusted with that referree Trottier.

Where did they find this guy?  The Mansfield Training School for the
Neurologically Impaired???

He lost total control of the game in the 3rd period.  Totally....

The officiating in the NHL has hit new lows lately....

'Saw

    re -.2
    	Can you name the AHL player from Halifax that refused to
    come up?
    
    Andy

    
    I have to agree with you on NHL officiating, really sad.
    Quebec fans are a**Holes.
    
    The B's got used by Buffalo Saturday afternoon. They don't play
    well in the afternoon! They bouinced back against THE DEVILS 
    lasted night with a 3-1 victory. Bourque, Carter(short-handed),
    and Neely scored for the B's, while Brendan Shannahan had the 
    lone tally for THE DEVILS.
    
    
    Steve
    
    

Andy, 

I forget his name.  He refused to come up.

Players hate Quebec, both for the fans and the tax situation.  Evidently
52% of a player's salary in Quebec goes to taxes, and mortgages are
not deductible.  The players say that makes it very tough to plan for
retirement and such.

After watching the game on Saturday night, I'm not suprised...

'Saw

    Tax laws are the same for players on the Canadiens andthe Nordiques.
    Canadian taxes are higher, and perhaps the Quebec provincial government 
    takes a higher chunk than the Ontario, Alberta, Manatoba & BC
    governments do. 
    
    The real reason players don't like Quebec (besides the lousy team) is 
    language. Even when the Nords were a GOOD team (5-7 years ago), no one 
    wanted to play for them. Montreal is bi-lingual enough so that there are 
    numerous English-speaking areas. Quebec has 98% of its population speaking 
    French as its native language. Anglo players (and especially wives, when 
    the team is away) oftem have a difficult time with day to day life. There
    are no English TV stations or newspapers in Quebec either. Considering the
    Quebec seperatism issue and language-based turmoil in Canada, Quebec
    can be a very unnerving place for someone who doesn't speak French.
    
    Of course, the other side of the coin is French-speaking players
    adjusting to life in English Canada or the US.  
    
    Tom

Actually it's more like 47% goes to taxes. Quebec is the most
taxed province/state n North America. Ontario isn't far behind.
Quebec fans are great as long as a player puts out. Claude Loiselle
hated the Quebec tax system so much that he was quoted as saying:
"I'd rather make $150K playing hockey in Toledo than in Quebec".
Well the fans didn't take it too lightly and he's been since
booed out of Quebec (to Calgary). He's not the first and won't be
the last that's openly complained about this (I don't blame him
either, it's just that there's other ways). As far as the fans are
concerned, they haven't made the playoffs in 4 years and they
still pack it in the Colisee.
	BTW, what's this horrible thing the fans have done?
I'm out of town for the week so I don't have the latest.
	As far as the English stations is concerned; theWHOLE province
of Quebec has the 3 major American stations and the 2 local english
stations from Mtl can also be capted by most Quebeckers. A lot of
players tTRIED to learn the language and the fans loved 'em; Stastny,
Gainey, McPhee... but it's the ones that only complain/bitch that
give most Quebeckers a headache.


Andy _in_cloudy_Atlanta

�Actually it's more like 47% goes to taxes. Quebec is the most
�taxed province/state n North America. Ontario isn't far behind.

Okay, the article I read said 52%....


�	BTW, what's this horrible thing the fans have done?
�I'm out of town for the week so I don't have the latest.

See the reply on Francis earlier.  That and their behavior in the
rest of the game was just, oh, I don't know, kind of mocking I guess.
Jo, you saw the game, help me out...

'Saw

    re taxes
    
    A lot of hockey players have clauses in their contracts saying they
    can't be traded to ANY Canadian team (and many of them are Canadians).
    This has to do with taxes more than anything else. SI did an
    interesting article about this, and it also dealt with the unique
    difficulties the Expos & Blue Jays have in signing top free agents.
    
    Tom 

    Here goes!!  Yes taxation in Canada is high and pretty high where I am
    at the moment (i.e. Ireland). Seems like most countries pay much higher
    rates of tax than people in the States. But from what I've heard, the
    U.S is not the place to get sick and have to be hospitalized. I don't
    know how often I've heard that if you don't have the right medical
    policy and you go into hospital you might as well sign away everything
    you own because you're going to lose it. Please don't ask me to feel
    sorry for a bunch over overpaid athletes who have to pay taxes at
    45%-52% for playing what boils down to a GAME. If they have any semblance 
    of a brain they will still have plenty of money left over to live quite 
    comfortably, thank you very much.
    
    As far as taxation, I READ that if Americans paid an extra 10 cents on
    each bottle of booze and each packet of cigarettes they could wipe out
    their budget deficit in a year. I don't know how true it is but I read
    it in the Economist if I remember rightly.
    
    Imagine all those poor baseball, and hockey players who might leave
    Quebec scarred by the experience of learning a new language. What 
    GARBAGE but typical for spoiled professional athletes.
    
    Ted.

re the 10� on booze.

	That could be, but it would probably be misspent anyway 8^)
	Hell, we already pay so much here in Connecticut that I brew
	my own beer.......

    John Cullen and Zarley Zalapski along with Jeff Parker 
    for Ron Francis, Ulf Samuelsson and Grant Jennings?
    
    Is this trade true?  If so, what a cement-headed trade.  Zalapski has 
    been playing better every year.  Cullen has evidently developed a bit
    of an attitude lately, but it's nothing that a coach shouldn't be
    able to slap down.  They gave up a ton of talent and didn't get much
    back.  I've never thought Francis was in the top 20, check that, top
    40 players in the league.  We'll see how it turns out; I haven't
    seen the Pens enough this year to identify their needs (other than
    the traditional need for a consistent and competent goalie).
    
    Charlie
    
    Article        11707
Path: engage!shlump.nac.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!hollie.rdg.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!sei!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!o.gp.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!wn0e+
From: [email protected] (William Nichols)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: BIG Pens trade!
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 5 Mar 91 04:57:52 GMT
Organization: Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 23
 
 
How big? how about John Cullen and Zarley Zalapski along with 
Jeff Parker to Hartford for Ron Francis, Ulf Samuelsson and  
Grant Jennings.
 
It is going to take a while for me to digest all the implications of
this trade, but my first impressions are that the Pens got tired of
waiting for Z to develope into a good defenseman (and now Murphy is
around anyway) and traded some offense for some size.  Francis and
Jennings are both pretty big.  Cullen has been slumping a bit lately,
but is still 5th in the league in scoring.  
 
EJ got back another one of his draft picks (Z), and added some scoring
punch with Zalapski and Cullen.
 
The Penguin work ethic has been pretty sad lately, there may be a bit of
"let's shake up the troops" here.  It was clear that the team was not
going anywhere as it stood.
 
What ever else comes from this trade, Patrick has certainly changed the
chemistry of his team.
 
--Bill Nichols
    

Well, I'm in here this morning with a vast internal conflict brewing
inside me.  Imagine my suprise, utter disbelief, total shock, and
mind numbness as I picked up this morning's paper and saw that the
Whaler's traded the franchise to Pittsburgh.

Last night, Ron Francis, Ulf Samuelsson and Grant Jennings were traded
to Pittsburgh for Zalepsky, Cullen, and a right winger (forget his name).

I am totally shocked.  Many, many Hartford fans believed, and still believe
that Francis was the franchise.  Granted, he wasn't a Gretsky or a Lemieux,
but I don't know many hockey teams that would have refused to have him.
In Hartford, he WAS the franchise.


This morning I am faced with a difficult decision.  I had always said to
my friends that if Francis goes, I go.  I have never Vaned(tm) in my
life.  Before the Whalers came into the NHL I was a Bruins fans, and I
supported the Whalers in the WHA.  In 1979, I decided to stick with the
Whalers.  My second favorite team has always been Calgary.

I'm sorely tempted to jump ship.  Rick Ley is incompetant, EJ has
sorely tempted the fans to leave, and Richard Gordon is spewing stuff
about how this is a great, great trade.

Well, folks, I haven't decided 100% that I'm leaving the Hartford
BandWheelBarrow (not big enough to be a wagon), but I will entertain
pleas, advertising etc from fans of other teams as to why I should perhaps
jump onto their wagon.


And to Jake -- enjoy him, he works hard, he can score, and he's one helluva
nice guy....

To Rick Ley, EJ and Richard Gordon:  ESADA!

'Saw

Charlie --

Just read your note!  I feel it's a cement-headed trade too, only 
the other way ;^)

Watch Francis, he's a digger and works his a__ off, really....  You'll
be pleasantly surprised...


'Saw

    
    
    
    Can someone please give me the status of Dominik Hasek (sp?)?
    What kind of contract does he have?
    
    The reason I'm asking is rumor has it that he might play here
    (Kaufbeuren) next year.
    
    Thanks,
    Dell-Roy

    'Saw,
    
    In support of Francis, the Quebec fans treated him like dirt when he
    got hurt.  The hit was legal, but a really nasty one, nonetheless.
    A player of his caliber shoudn't be booed or mocked when down on the
    ice....its not like Francis has a reputation for being a cheapshot
    artist.  The Quebec fans were unduly tasteless in the matter.  From
    watching the game I think that they have grown to love the physical
    aspect of the game because it seemed to me they cheered more when
    there were hits on players than pucks going into the nets.
    
    Also, in regards to lobbying for you to pick a new team....didn't
    you write a note not that long ago that if Francis was traded you'd
    start rooting for the B's again?  Yeah, I thought so too! 8^)
    
    Cullen in a Whaler uniform....this I gotta see!  Zalapski, however
    is a much better defensman than Samuelsson; at least statistically.
    
    The other player is Jeff Parker, RW.
    
    Jo

�    Also, in regards to lobbying for you to pick a new team....didn't
�    you write a note not that long ago that if Francis was traded you'd
�    start rooting for the B's again?  Yeah, I thought so too! 8^)
    
Yeah, I probably did.

Oooh, wouldn't that be the ULTIMATE VANE!!!!

I still cannot believe this, but in retrospect, we all saw it coming.
The article in the paper shows just how shabbily they treated Ronnie.
He was stripped of his C, and still worked his ass off.  Just the
other evening, the Whaler organization contacted Francis' agent and
told him they were ready to negotiate Francis' contract!  They all but
said a trade was out of the question....

There's only two reasons to root for the Whalers now -- Verbeek and Brown...

I'll have to do some thinking!

'Saw

In the immortal words of the crowd gathered on the sidewalk looking up:

Jump, 'Saw, JUMP!

I did it three years ago and haven't looked back.  I used to be a CAPS and
GoWhaLe fan; now I'm a CAPS and Blues fan.  My life hasn't been the same 
since.  Why, I have peace and harmony now, not to mention bigger muscles,
more money and less male pattern baldness.  I also don't sleep on the couch 
as often as I used to during hockey season (my wife's from St. Louis).

;-)

Dave W.

Wow!

The Bruins, the Blues.....more muscles....

Gee, I feel like a kid in a candy store!!!!


Pardon me folks, but I'd like to say one thing:


		Rick Ley is a cheesedick


thanks,
'Saw

Yeah, your `Sawness....

Why don't you blow off that Eastern mentality, and pick a team from the
heartland. I vote Blackhawks or Blues. Any team within 500 miles of the
ocean is eliminated. Buy American!

Re: 10� per pack of cigarettes. This wouldn't even be a billion dollars
a year.

I'm tired of everybody dumping on beer and cigarettes every time they
want to raise money for something. Let's start taxing oat bran, and
tofu, and dockers, and another 25% on any yuppie import.... and if the
Japanese renege on their commitment in paying off Desert Storm.... we
raise THEIR imports 100%... money applied 1/2 and 1/2 to the war and the
debt. Tell `em we'll make our own damned VCR's.

Mike JN

    Sorry, 'Saw, the ULIMATE VANE has already been pulled.  It occurred
    when Jim Dinsmore went from being a Red Sox fan to being a Yankee fan
    (I think he also went from the B's to GoWhale).

>    Sorry, 'Saw, the ULIMATE VANE has already been pulled.  It occurred
>    when Jim Dinsmore went from being a Red Sox fan to being a Yankee fan
>    (I think he also went from the B's to GoWhale).


Geez, you know, you're right.  I'd forgotten about that.  I mean,
that's the WORST VANE imaginable.  

I guess I'll just sit here calmly and do some cogitatin'.  Perhaps
I'll watch the Whale for the rest of the season and their early
exit in the playoffs.  I can't see how these fellows they've traded
for will prevent THAT debacle from occuring.

If Ley goes, then perhaps I'll remain on the gOwHAle BandWheelBarrow(tm)
for a while longer.  I hate to Vane(tm)....

'Course, I could probably just jump off now and get on that Gold and
Black Bandwagon....

Oh well....gots to do some thinkin.....

'Saw

    'Saw,
    
    You already stated that if Francis was traded you'd go back to the
    Bruins.  Now if ya didn't stay true to your word then that would be
    right up there with BetWelching!  8^)
    
    Not to mention that I'd probably get the biggest kick out of reading
    a reply of yours in regards to a Whailers/Bruins game from the opposite
    perspective.

    Saw, the Bruins are a fine example of a team that has always worked as
    hard as it could, and often played well beyond their collective talent
    level. C'mon, jump! You'll have a Stanley Cup to enjoy in May.....
    
    re .253
    
    Ted, I agree with you completely. I was going to put in a lengthy
    tirade about how Americans pay the lowest taxes in the developed world
    and still think it's too much, but... South Africa and the US are the only 
    (non-3rd world) countries in the world that don't have a comprehensive
    health and medical program for everyone. About the 10 cents figure, the
    Economist loves those kind of stats, but I dunno if it's true. Those
    kind of "sin taxes" have been tried in the past and haven't worked. I 
    used to subscribe to the Economist, since they are probably the best news 
    magazine in the world with a global perspective, but I got a little tired 
    of their Maggie worshiping.  
    
    Tom

Yeah, I probably said that (i.e. I'm not denying it).

But what I'll probably do is see how this works out the rest of the
season.  I've always been one of those who hates to leave the ship
too early etc etc etc.

The Whalers whaler is definitely taking on water fast, and with 
Captain Ahab Ley at the helm, we could be going down mighty fast,
mighty soon.  We'll see if Queequeg Cullen's aim is true....

I'll probably wait and see.  If the bit the big one, screw the pooch
and step out the door this spring in the playoffs, and Rick Ley doesn't
go, I'll probably leave without letting the door hit me on the way out.

This would be a BIG step for me.....

'Saw

    Another major trade:
    
    St Louis sends Geoff Courtnall, Cliff Ronning, Sergio Momesso and
    Robert Dirk to Vancouver for Dan Quinn and Garth Butcher.
    
    Toronto sends Allan Bester to Detroit for future considerations.

At the deadline Hartford sends Carey Wilson to Calgary for Mark Hunter.

Nothing impressive last night.  My brother went to the game.  The crowd
was chanting "Ronnie, Ronnie".  When Ley was introduced everyone booed.

I'll tell ya there's trouble here in Harfaa, folks.  Should be interesting
to see.

The newspaper articles were SCATHING this morning.  One said that Ley
and EJ's jobs are on the line.  Another said that the way Francis was
treated was appalling.  (Ley didn't like Francis for some reason...)

Anyway, that's the story.

Oh yeah, in the Game Hull and Oates tore the place up.  In fact, they
schooled the Whalers defense...

'Saw

>    > ...in the Game Hull and Oates tore the place up.
>                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>    
>    Was this their reunion tour?  Since when did they take their show on
>    ice?  I bet they wore figure skates...  :-)


Hawk, Hawk, Hawk, Kwak, Kwak, Kwak....

You're confusing Brent Hull and Adam Oates, two very fine hockey players,
with JoJ's second favorite group.  

I will admit to liking their original "hit" Sarah, but after they YUKKO!

Now, Brent Hull and Adam Oates, schooled the Whalers last night....big time.


'Saw    

    With his goals vs. the Whale last night, Brett Hull has now scored at
    least one goal against every NHL team this season.
    
    
    py

Okay 'Saw, now take a look at the scores of the Bruins and the Blues games.
Now, which of these teams would YOU root for, hmmmmm?

On another note, I think trading Courtnall for an assassin is not a good
idea.  I think the Blue Notes are gonna regret this one.

Dave W.

    Normally I would attribute last night's shellacing of the Bs by the
    Maple Leafs to looking past them to St. Louis, but with all of the
    goals they have given up in the games played since their Arizona
    mini-vacation it looks like they have some serious problems.  What's
    going on with these guys?  Defense normally hasn't been a problem in
    Boston, goal scoring has.

    B's played DISGUSTING last night.  I don't usually get so aggravated
    with their play because it is nearly impossible to be 'up' for a every
    game, but the Bruins last night played an all around effortless game.
    No skating, no hitting, no checking!   Toronto, on the other hand,
    played a great game and deserved to win.
    
    By the third period I had all I could take....I flipped the station
    just in enough time to see the Whailers lose to St. Louis, 4-1.

    Hi Boston,
    	Your Bruins are a damn good team, and it will be a shame when they
    lose in the division final to Montreal ( a team I despize ).Why? their
    goaltending is very inconsistant, they should have tried to trade for
    Ken Wregget a money goalie who is underated. I know most of you will
    disagree with me, please dont be upset , but the facts are there with
    Moog and Lemelin playing the way they are the only team playing in the
    Garden come May will be the Celtics.

    
    I don't think you can fault the goaltending during the Bruins 
    recent slump. In watching these contests I'd have to blame 
    the high goals against count on team defense. Lot's of give-aways
    ans absolutely no checking. I'd take Moog or Lemelin over Wregget
    anyday.
    
    
    
    Steve

Wregget is a stiff.  Moog is infinitely better, as are a half dozen 
others in the league.  And I'm not even a Booins fan (and I am still 
hacked off that Malarchuk left the CAPS).

Dave W.

    Ok, I agree the Bruins defense has been shabby of late but when the
    other team scores a shabby goal it deflates the team confidence in
    their goaly.And in my own defence, I feel that the Bruins have no
    confidence in Moog not to mention Lemlin who's G.A.A.	 is close to his
    age.I used Wregget as an example seeing as he was one of the fiew		
    goalies that was mentioned as trade material.
    	      Thnx Bruno.

    I think the problem with the B's is that they're playing well enough
    just to stay in first in their division.  They may have the mentality 
    that they burned themselves out last year going for the league-wide
    #1 position, and then got stung by the Oilers, a team that had a
    mediocre season by their standards.
    
    It's probably safe to say that teams that try to turn it on for the
    playoffs, more often that not, hit the skids.  My biggest fear is them
    not making it out of the Adams division playoffs (hello Montreal).
    
    They could use Poulin and Burridge back no doubt, and it'd be nice for
    the team defense to turn it up a notch as well.
    
    					Steve

    	Boy did that old guy with the jowls who sung the national anthem
    at the Garden last night stink or what?  Hull has one helluva wrist
    shot don't he?
    
    				/Don
    
    	P.S. The game stunk!

    
    Hull is simply amazing. What a release he's got. If you can get
    the puck on his stick it's in the net. Bruins didn't have a clue
    on how to stop him last night. They had to work thier collective
    butts off just to scrape out a tie. St. Louis had 18 shots and 5
    goals, the Blues were wide open on all thier goals. Hull for MVP!
    
    
    Steve

    San Looey looks like they are rounding into form for a serious run
    at the Cup. The addition of Butcher and Quinn( I don't understand
    Vancouver, are they giving up on playoffs this year for the future?
    If so, this might be the last year of the Pat Quinn-Brian Burke show in
    B.C.) adds greatly to their depth. I think Scott Stevens looks real
    solid. I only question their goaltending. Who backs up Riendeau in
    net?
    
    IMO, it looks like seven teams are in the top tier for making a
    serious run for the Cup. They are by order of who I think will win
    at this point!
    
                 1 St. Louis(got the team,but the experience?)
    
                 2.Calgary ( could be strongest)
                 3. Chicago (if they play for 60 minutes,could win it all)
                 4. Boston  (need to get back to form,and get balanced
                             scoring
                 5. LA kings ( will have to play out of their skulls)
                 6. Edmonton ( never underestimate Messier and Co)
                 7. Montreal (longshot but Roy could provide boost)
    
    Two other teams who could go a long way; Sabres and Rangers.
    
    
    The fun begins soon!
    
    MikeL
    

    RE: - few
    
    Bruins are expecting Dave Poulin back for the game against Montr�al this
    Thursday.  Nilan (in an interview Saturday) is hoping to be back within
    a week.  The forechecking of Poulin and toughness of Nilan should give
    them a boost. (I hope)  To me the Bruins (including Cam Neely) have 
    been playing as though they are afraid of getting hurt and thus are
    not hitting and are letting other teams take advantage of them with
    all the cheap stuff.  I look for either Boston or Montr�al to take
    the Wales Conference.  I expect (read: hope) that either St. Louis
    or Chicago take the Campbell Conference.  I felt last year Chicago
    blew it due to lousy goaltending....Millen would be outstanding one
    night and absolutely cold the next.  Belfour has been giving up a
    lot more goals recently, making me begin to wonder if he's finally
    getting tired.
    
    RE: .284
    
    Vincent Riendeau is backed up by Curtis Joseph. (Just as a little
    bit of trivia, Riendeau was traded as part of a 5-player deal to
    the Blues from Montr�al in '88)

    
    Since the ba*t**d didn't pay me a visit when he was in MRO, I paid
    a surprise call on ol' DiNz yesterday while I had a meeting in LTN.
    
    It is now official, as that cellar-dwelling-Yankee-lover and GoWHAle
    symphesizer told me unequivocally that he has no intention of paying
    off his bet with the honest, upstanding, Karen Derry.  No jock strap,
    no black and gold, no shouting of praises for the mighty Broons.  The
    admirable virtues of integrity and trust have taken a serious beating
    here in the ::SPORTS file, and I hope any new readers are not driven
    away over this.  My heart breaketh, and my tongue cleaveth to the roof
    of my mouth for some reason (maybe it's just the peanut butter and
    crackers I brought for a snack.)  I hear the rending of my garments is
    helpful, but I don't know what to ask for rent.
    
    By the way, I noticed he was sipping discreetely his favorite soft
    drink:
    
            WELCHERS GRIPE JUICE
    
    
    Hahahahahahah!!!  Sorry, dInz, I couldn't resist!
    
    Dickstah
    

Looks like another case of Possession by the Debil.

I thought we had flushed that sucker out when we abandoned Ourgng for
Cam.

Maybe Frankwa can use some Holy Whiskey (a hell of a lot more potent
than Holy Water), to drive that Satanic Slut from our midst. If it's
infected DiNz, who knows how many others it might have got it's claws
into? We may be in for the MOTHER of all Pea Soup encounters!

Mike JN

I thought the bet was with Joann Barrows.

At any rate, I'm appalled, and ashamed that I count the WelcherDinz(tm)
amongst my friends.

Welching is something that is horrendously repugnant to me, as my
daddy always taught me not to bet something that I'm not willing to
lose.

I say we form a lynch mob, go and find that no good welcher, and
make him pay up.....

It's a sad, sad day in SPORTS.....  We should make him wear a
Scarlet W on his shirt until he pays up.....

'Saw

    
    As the one who offered the wager, I am totally upset. It's not 
    everyday when you can get a man to run around a highschool track
    wearing nothing but a black and gold jockstrap and chanting..
    "Here we go Bruins! Here we go!" I am saddened..and I too call
    this welcher a friend.............sniff..sniff..
    
    
    
    Steve

I mean, it's not like we asked him to nude up or anything.....


In fact, as one of the Founders of SPORTS_91 on CAM, I proclaim that
should ever the WelcherDinz(tm) enter into this forum again, that
all replies addressed to him, will, by this mandate, started with
the appellation:

	WelcherDinz,Lowest_Of_Low,Welcher_of_Welchers, grovel before us...

As long as this file remains here on CAM, and until Dinz pays off his
bet, so shall we call him.....


Chainsaw

    Why is everyone so surprised?  Has Dinz ever made good on a bet?

    Well, in the Dinz's own words,  "Send me mail".  :*)
    
    I'm gonna, and right now.
    
    lEe

Good for you, lEe.....  Be sure to start it of with Dear WelcherDinz(tm)....


Anyway, I caught part of the Whalers game last night.  The second 
goal of the game was a goal by Cullen from Verbeek and Brown.  It was
a really pretty goal.

Ley and EJ have been taking a lot of heat here in the Hartford area.
People are incensed, not so much because of the trade, but at the
way Ron Francis was treated.  Personally, I think we gained with this
trade, but I'm appalled at the way this player was treated.

In Hartford, Ronnie Francis was more than a player, he was a fixture.
He did just as much off the ice as he did on the ice, and he helped out
the players a lot -- when they were injured or sick, he took up collections
etc etc etc.

Through it all he maintained an air of class.  Last December 7th, when
Rick Ley stripped him of his C, Francis just shut his mouth and worked
all the harder.  But it's generally figured that for some reason, perhaps
his own bruised ego, Ley had it in for Francis.  For Ron Francis was
far more "Mr Whaler" than Rick Ley could ever have hoped to be.

Francis never spoke his mind until after the trade, and then he told
how he'd been treated.

In Hartford, fans are ashamed.  In the Courant last week, a political
cartoon by Bob Englehart shows a two headed hockey player (the heads
are EJ and Ley) tripping #10 Ron Francis.  EJ is saying "Have a nice
Trip" and Ley is going "Har Har".  The picture is entitled "GOONS".
Many people thought it very fitting.

Last Saturday night, my brother went to the Pittsburgh game, and my
folks watched on TV.  Scattered throughout the sellout crowd were 
fans wearing new jersies -- Pittsburgh jersies, with a #9 and the 
name Francis on the back.  Many banners were in evidence that
were pro-Francis.  More proclaimed "Wanted:  Major League Management".

Francis got an ovation when he came out, and the people pretty much
openly rooted for Pittsburgh.

At home, the TV cameras would not pan the crowd, like they usually
do, probably because of all the banners....

Until last night, in the period after the trade, Hartford was 0-4, and
Pittsburgh was 4-0.


Rick Ley has blamed three things for the Whalers 1-6-3 record in their
last ten starts:  media distractions, fans, and unlucky bounces.
Perhaps Rick Ley should realize that he ain't coached worth a damn....

Attendance is down, fans are disgusted, and the papers are reporting
that Ley's job is on the line.  For that reason, I'm hoping for
a nice secure 4th place finish, and a five game playoff loss to the
Bruins....


'Saw

    
    I think everyone is being a little tough on Dins.  I'm sure there is a
    reason why he hasn't come through on his part of the bet (no the reason
    ain't cause he's a YAnkee fan).  I'm pretty sure it's cause he doesn't
    have a jock to wear.  Maybe we could ALL send him one...

    
    > when they were injured or sick, he took up collections
    
    You gotta be kidding.
    
                                 Note these are BIG X's
                                /
    You mean a player making $ XX,000.00 or $XXX,000.00 needs someone to
    help buy bread and cough medicine and maybe some Flintstone vitamins 
    for the family?
    
    
    
    
    If it means losing his florida condo, or that he may get his Porshe
    repossessed, well *that* I can see.        
    
    Dickstah
    
    

    re: .294
    
    Part of the bet was if Dinz won (hahahahahahahaha) he'd have to buy
    me the Whalers shirt I would be required to wear and I'd have to buy
    him the jock.  If you all sent him a jock that you paid for with your
    hard-earned money it would be a waste.....Dinz isn't gonna hold up to
    his part so therefore he has no other use for a jock.  8^)

    
    Oh, sorry to mix up the bettors, Wheel.  I thought KD was the winner of
    this one.
    
    I always get you two foxes mixed up.
    
    Dickstah
    

Dickstah,

Hockey players don't make as much as most other athlete's but that's
not the point.  The point is that a team should send flowers or a
fruit basket or something like that, and Francis always made sure this
was done.  Plus he was VERY active in area charities...


re WelcherDinz(tm),

I don't care who it is, a welcher is lower than low.  If you don't intend
to come through with the payment of the bet, don't make it in the first
place.  

It's bad enough he welched, it's worse that he's a Whalers fan.  We have
enough problems and don't need to be labelled Welchers too....

And again, it's not like it's a really embarassing bet or anything....

'Saw

    Yo Dickstah... I stopped making bets with Dinz, he still owes me from
    way back when the Pats were a decent team.

    'Saw
    I'm sure there are going to be alot of Pens fans sending thank you
    cards to the Whalers if the Pens make the playoffs, which appears
    almost in hand now.  Working nights I don't get to follow the team the
    way I would like to and mainly, I only hear scores and news reports on
    the radio.  But I do know that since the trade, the Pens are 4-0-1 and
    only 3 points away from a share of the division lead.  At the time of
    the trade, the Pens were on a 0-9-1 skid.  They tied Montreal, 4-4 last
    night.
    
    
    JaKe
    

Hey Frank,

re the Ron Francis thing.

Sounds like good ol' fashioned jealousy on the part of Rickey boy to me.

If so, it's coming from a pretty strange place since when Ley was younger he
was the kind of guy that you're describing Francis as.  Or, on second thought,
maybe that's all the more reason for Ley to be green now.

Anyway, stripping the C from the captain and all that was zactly what happened
to the Sittler/McDonald combo in Toronto.  Took me ages to realize that that
old fart Ballard was for the most part jealous.  I think Sittler never really
recovered from falling from grace as he is a real gentlemen and exemplary 
athlete, but Lanny went to Calgary and became a real superstar.  As for Ballard,
we all know where HE is now.

Like any other business, Hockey makes many emotional business decisions.

rick

re Pittsburgh:

	There are many, many people who are pulling for Pittsburgh now.
	They'd like nothing better than to see Ronnie Francis' name on
	the Stanley Cup, even with someone other than the Whalers.

re Ley:

	Yes.  It's become evident now that it's all over that there
	are many factors at work here.  First, in the Francis situation
	when Ley took away the C it was like the beginning of the end.
	It was sort of a public shaming.  The thing I like was the
	way Francis answered that: not with quotes in the press but with
	stepped up play.

	Mike Luit was quoted yesterday as being flabbergasted by the
	trade, saying that Francis is the kind of player you retire
	from a team, and that you don't build a dynasty by trading off
	six players including your best.  Luit said he understood his
	trade (for younger blood) but not the Francis trade.

	Which leads me to a certain conclusion.  Since EJ got here he
	has been trading away every player that was "Whalers".  Every
	player that you could identify with the Whalers is now on 
	another team, except Dineen.

	Also, these guys are so high on Holik, and they want him exclusively
	at center.  So they got rid of Francis.  Personally, I don't see
	where Holik is all that great.  He should have been sent to
	Springfield where he could have been seasoned.  He fails to see
	the pass opportunity early enough, and has totally blown many great
	scoring chances by hanging onto the puck so long....

	I don't doubt that EJ and Ley have a plan, but I think what they've
	been feeding the fans is bull and not related to their plan, which
	is totally remaking the Whalers, I guess.....


'Saw

    
    'Saw, EJ had the sme problem when he was with Pittsburgh. 
    A trading maniac ala Phil Esposito. What is it with all these 
    ex-Bruins trading lunatics! 8^)
    
    
    
    Steve

Well, personally, I think that EJ made a couple of good trades.

First, he got Verbeek from New Jersey.  That was a gold mine of a trade.
Then he picked up Rob Brown.

Cullen, Zalapsky remains to be seen in my opinion.

The Luit trade has proven to be no good, as was the Crossman trade.

Getting rid of Crossman for Houda may work out.


I really feel he's trying to totally change the face of the team,
into something completely different.  Might work, but might not.

Look for Dineen to be the next trade, if he starts performing a 
little better.....

'Saw

Un-believable....

The Whalers win two in a row, dispatching Detroit last night 4-2.

I like the Krygier-Hunter-Yake line.  Krygier and Yake seem to almost
have ESP or something....

On a sad note, Steve Barr, a former Whaler playing for the Red Wings broke
an ankle colliding with the boards last night, and was taken off on 
a stretcher...

But we win, and Kay Whitmore looked really good too.....

'Saw

    
    And Da Broons banged the final nail in the Habs coffin lasted night and
    have just about sewed up the division.  That and $ .50 will get them a
    cup of coffee.  They're still a solid club, but I don't see that they
    have enough firepower to take the cup.
    
    They led 3-zip in the third, and it took Moog stuffing a breakaway in
    the final seconds to end it.  If we only had a Brett Hull, I'd feel a
    lot better if/when we get into those playoff shootouts with the West.
    
    Dickstah
    

By the way, there's a_excellent article on Brett Hull in this week's
SI.  It's the cover story in fact.

I only read part of it, cause I was done takin' care of business, but
what I read was pretty good....

'Saw

    
    >I only read part of it, cause I was done takin' care of business, but
    >what I read was pretty good....
    
    Have a prune juice and a cup of coffee, then let us know how the
    article ends.  Thanx.
    
    Dickstah
    

>    Have a prune juice and a cup of coffee, then let us know how the
>    article ends.  Thanx.
    
Could always go back to the Bahamas mon, that would do the same thing
too 8^)

'Saw    

Has anyone heard anything from the WelcherDinz(tm)?

Hockey fans that I have talked with are appalled.  First because he
made the bet in the first place (hahahaha), second because he
welched....

All reports are welcome.....

'Saw

    re .311:
    
    Someone in the Yankees' notesfile talked to Dinz last week...he's still
    out there doing well, but hasn't had much time for notesfiles lately.
    
    
    py

Gee, ain't it funny how if he don't have much time for NOTES files,
SPORTS ain't one of the ones he's picking....


Oh WelcherDinz....Oh WelcherDinz....we got yer jockstrap ready....
Nude up, put it on and start running.....;^)


'Saw

    �Gee, ain't it funny how if he don't have much time for NOTES files,
    �SPORTS ain't one of the ones he's picking....
    
    Ahhhh, he's welched far too many times in here -- he's probably taking
    his bag of tricks to other unsuspecting Noters! ;-)

    In case any of you did not catch it, last night there was a wild one
    between #1 & 2 in the league.  The Blackhawks came into the LA Forum
    and just took it to the Kings 6-3.  The Hawks had three shorthanded 
    goals to tie a club record.  The Kings scored one of their own. 
    
    The Hawks made it real tough on themselves by being shorthanded almost 
    the entire 1st period (three Hawks, one King thrown out of the game).  The
    score at the end of the 1st only 1-1, both teams scoring a shorthanded
    goal!  The second period was all Hawks, 5-2 after 2 periods.  The Kings
    had another chance in the 3rd having another 5 minute major powerplay
    but, as in the whole game, the Hawk forecheckers were all over them and
    the Kings only got a few shots off the whole time.  
    
    The Great One added another NHL record to his already long list,
    getting an assist in his 17th consecutive game.  It came late in the
    game, at 6-2 so there was'nt much fanfare.  Lots and lots and lots of
    penalty minutes.  The King goalie, Daniel Bertheiume (sp?), had two
    shutout this year against the Hawks but did not have much help last
    night.  This looked like a playoff game.
    
    ...JK

About the SI article on Brett Hull. Someone that read it was appalled
by the bullshit in the article. It says that Hull is an 'American 
playing in an american city'. Well Brett Hull was born in 1964 in 
Belleville Ont and played his Jr B in Penticton BC. He applied for
American Citizenship in '86 because he wasn't picked on the Cdn 
Olympic team by the GM Dave King. Last time I read a hockey article
in SI was about Pat Burns (ex-Cop) and the Habs. They tried taking
pictures of Burns w/ a billy-club (sp?) and handcuffs but Burns wouldn't
go for that 'amateurism' so they drew a cartoon of Burns throwing 
things at his players.			

Andy

    
    Pens beat the Rangers 4-2 at MSG today.  Mario had 2 goals.
    This win puts the Pens in first place.  However, their remaining 
    7 games are pretty nasty.
    
march   17   Pens at NYR
	19   Pens at NJ
	21   NYR at Pens
	23   Chi at Pens
	26   Pens at Phil
	27   Pens at Det
	30   Phil at Pens
	31   Pens at NYR
    
    Charlie
    

Whalers had a good Saturday night, beating DA DEBILS(tm) by a score
of 6-2.  It looked like everything was clicking....

Last night they must have had chicken for a pre-game meal, because
they choked big time on the bones.....

'Saw

    
    Anyone have les score on the Hawk's-Blues calsh lasted night?
    I watched the 2nd period before dozing off, what a chippy, ugly
    game. It was 4-3 Hawks the last I knew.
    
    
    
    Steve

    re -.1
    	Like old Hab vs B's games right?
    
    Hawks won 6-4.
    
    Andy

    I'm sure that this must have been thought of befor, but why don't they
    make a power play a real man advantage, and not one that changes the
    rules for that situation. Meaning, the short handed team gets to ice
    the puck. A real man advantage situation would be more effective if
    they made the short handed team get to at least the red line befor
    dumping it down the ice. This would increase the power play
    effectiveness to a higher percentage, the league leading power play has
    around a 23% efficiency rating, not too impressive. It may even
    decrease stupid penalties. Comments?

    re -.1
    	It would create more stoppage of play, which is what the 
    NHL is trying to avoid (ie. looonng games; like football). This
    is why they came up w/ the 'delayed' offside a couple of years
    ago.
    
    	Andy

    
    Ya Andy, if that had been the Bruins and some other team, I'm 
    sure there would've been a good ration of sh*t in here! 8^)
    But seeing as it's those two angelic clubs, the Hawks and the Blues...
    Well there you have it!
    
    
    
    Steve

    
    What?  No comments on the Broons-Whale sister kissing of Tuesday?  Both
    teams played like they could have used a prune juice and a cup of
    coffee.
    
    The season is too long.  The teams and the fans are both yawning
    through the final weeks, waiting for the real season to start.  Then
    we'll be able to watch a real Broons-Whale game.
    
    Isn't that right, dInz?
    
    Dickstah
    

Well, it wasn't flashy, but there was a lot of hitting going on.

I mean, I lost track of how many guys had their helmets knocked off.

It wasn't pretty, but hey, at least the Whale didn't LOSE.


And it's time for a PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT.

	UNLIKE some OTHER Whalers fans in this file (WelcherDinz)
	I'm hereby announcing that I LOST my bet with Karen Derry.

	Every season Karen and I bet a CD (if I win) or two tapes
	(if she wins) on the Bruins-Whalers season series.  

	With the tie the other night, the series stands at 4-2-1,
	meaning that the best the Whale could hope for is a 4-3-1
	record in favor of Boston.  Therefore, I have LOST my
	bet, and am publicly annoucing it unlike other Whalers
	fans in here (WelcherDinz) who have lost, not announced it,
	and taken a powder.

	Therefore, sometime in the near future, when Karen decides
	what she wants, I'll either get her the tapes (God, I hope
	she doesn't want the New Pam Smart Avoid a Murder Rap tapes)
	or send her the monetary equivalent.

	I, The Chainsaw, would never make a bet I couldn't keep, or
	welch on a bet I made.......


'Saw

    re last
    
    Well, the Bruins, Oilers, Kurri and the Milan club had all come to an 
    agreement, and all the paperwork was ready, but Tank from WBCN was at 
    the press conference and mistook it for a sausage, and....   

    re .326
    
    Frank, its sounds like a sucker bet to me!  CONGRATS to Karen.
    
    Are you going to make the same bet next season (Another run to the
    sea)? 8^)
    
    Tom
    

    
    .328
    
    Seriously rollward!!
    
    
    
    Steve

>    
>    Frank, its sounds like a sucker bet to me!  CONGRATS to Karen.
>    
>    Are you going to make the same bet next season (Another run to the
>    sea)? 8^)
    
Actually, it's not a sucker bet.  It's probably the one bet the 
Whalers would have a chance to win.

Last season it went down to the last minutes of the last game. If
not for a late goal in the 3rd (on a breakaway), the series record
would have been 3-3-2 (assuming no score in OT).  As it was it was
4-3-1.

This year would necessarily be a little tougher to get 4-3-1, but
it's been close the last two times.

Next year, same bet, if she's up for it ;^)


And hey, at least I didn't bet that I'd nude up with only a jock
strap and run around a track chanting, and then WELCH on the 
bet, like some people, who shall remain nameless......


8^)
'Saw    

    Can anyone shed some light on when the first 2 games of the
    Broons/Whale (or Buffalo) will be?  I have tickets to the first 2
    games, but the dates haven't been announced yet.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Mark.

>MCIS1::DHAMEL "Choc. bunnies yes;M'mallow chicks no" 13 lines  21-MAR-1991 11:51
>    The season is too long.  The teams and the fans are both yawning
>    through the final weeks, waiting for the real season to start.  Then
    
    Not me, Dickstahstirmeister.  Big big rematch in the Patrick tonight 
    between the Pens and Rangers for first place.
    
    I wish the hockey season were 162 games long.  I wish it went from 
    October to September.  I wish that teams which are eliminated in
    the playoffs would play exhibition games.  And as long as I'm 
    wishing, I wish I had a satellite dish so I could see the Pens 
    play once in a while.
    
    In my case, it's the great moves and plays I like to see, not just
    "meaningful" victories (although those make the great plays all 
    the better!).
    
    Charlie

    Ron Francis got his first goal as a Penguin tonite, it tied the game at
    4-4 in the 3rd playoff and forced the game into OT.
    
    Pens won the game 13 seconds into the overtime when Kevin Stevens shot
    from 45 feet, it went wide, bounced back out and went off of the ranger
    goalie's glove into the goal.  
    
    The Pens captured a playoff spot with the Flyers losing tonite.
    They also are in excellent position to take the division title.
    
    
    
    G O      P E N S  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
    
    
    
    
    JaKe
    

    I tuned in the B's when the score was 3-3, late in the 3rd.  They 
    flash the shots on net total, Tugnutt faced 61 shots to this point.
    I say "what? and the score is 3-3?"  Ended up tied and he stopped
    70 of 73 shots.  Unbelievable.

Pet Peeve:

	*&^&^%@!ing Sports Announcers who announce tie games as
	such:

		And the Bruins and Nordiques played to a 3-3 tie
		in an overtime game.

NO SHIT SHERLOCK.

Any hockey fans knows that if the games ends in a tie, it musta been
in overtime.  Duh!

Peronsally, I hate OT.

'Saw

    Not only did Tugnutt stop 70 shots, but I'd say that at least half of
    those were absolutely *unconscious* saves.  He was really
    unbelievable.  The game ended with he making a great save on a
    screened shot, followed by a save on a point blank rebound.
    
    Cam Neely asked him to take a bow after the game.  The score could have
    easily been 15 to 3.
    
    Mark.

    
    Tugnutt did have himself a carrer night! The Garden faithful gave
    hima standing O, well deserved. That save he made on Bourque with 
    8 seconds left in o.t. was immaculate! 8^) 
    
    
    
    Steve

    
    Yes, KD, ordinarily a 3-3 tie between the mighty Broons and the lowly
    No-diques is nothing to write about, but that was one of the best games
    I've seen all year. (And just a few notes away from where I said the
    late-season games were getting boring.)
    
    73 shots on goal is an astounding number.  Why, Ray Bourque had 19
    alone.  In the OT when the B's continued to pound away with Desert
    Storm intensity, I was actually rooting for Tugnutt to get at least the
    tie.
    
    Dickstah
    

    What's with ESPN and Tugnutt?  The guys on at 11 have been talking
    about him the last couple of weeks, so they were ready to make
    him King Tugnutt... Seems to be a running joke, do they have a
    hockey rotisserie going or something?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Tugnutt has been the only thing
keeping Quebec in the NHL the last couple of weeks.

'Saw

    Amazing! While Tugnutt was stopping everything in sight,do did you see
    the winning goal in the Pittsburgh-New York game last night?

    Tugnutt has 70 or 73 saves last night against the Bruins. Ray Bourque
    has 19 shots on goal last night and scored once...
    
    REK
    
    a 3-3 tie....

>    Tugnutt has 70 or 73 saves last night against the Bruins. Ray Bourque
>    has 19 shots on goal last night and scored once...


Their were 73 Boston shots-on-goal, and Tugnutt stopped 70.
I believe that's like 3 short of the all-time record, set over
50 years ago...

Amazing!

'Saw

    According to this morning's news report, this is the second time
    that a goalie has faced this many shots with this kind of an outcome.
    The record involves 83 shots on goal, with 80 saves, by a Blackhawks
    goalie in the nether reaches of past time.  (Hawks lost the game
    3-2.)
    
    Tugnutt did simply an incredible job.  Wish I had watched the game.
     I'm glad the Boston fans had enough class to give the guy the standing
    O.  He certainly deserved it.
    
    Were there any other Nordiques even out on the ice???????
    
    A&W

    Last nights's game was awesome!!!  Tugnutt was incredible; and Quebec,
    despite the number of shots allowed on their goalie, played excellent.
    When the shots reached 50 I thought if they got to 60 it would be
    amazing.  Had someone said then that it would reach 73 I would've
    laughed.
    
    On the news this morning they were interviewing Tugnutt and he said
    he couldn't look at the Bruins players cause if he did he would've
    laughed.  It was truly an unbelievable display of how one player can
    make a big difference.  (And to think that Quebec was crowding the
    slot up to stop Boston from scoring...I found it amazing that the
    puck didn't go in due to Tugnutt being screened!)
    
    News on the St. Louis/Chicago brawl: Scott Stevens gets a 2 game
    suspension, Kelly Chase (STL) and either Hudson/Peluso for the
    Hawks got 10 games each.  Keenan was fined 5,000 and Sutter was
    fined 2,500.  A total of $28,000+ in fines were handed out.  The
    suspensions will be carried into the playoffs.

    
    That is such crap by the ball-less NHL office. Why didn't both of
    the coaches get suspensions? I thought it was mandatory that if 
    one of your player's leave's the bench to join an altercation the
    player as well as th coach are suspended. Milbury was. What gives?
    This is major bullsh*t.
    
    
    Steve

I thought the guys on ESPN were great. I love it when they get excited about a
performance. One guy said they should change the word from "save" to "tugnutt".

Then they went and showed some more highlights and said...."so and so shoots and
Burke tugnutts"...

It was great....

Quite the highlight show....

Metz

Not to take anything away from Tugnutt but he's not the ONLY player
that's kept the Nords in the NHL over the last couple of weeks. Joe
Sakic had a 5 pt night against the Oilers Tuesday and has be involved
in almost 1/2 the goals by the Nords. His linemates are a 39 yr old
over the hill RW and a nobody named Hough. He sometimes plays on 
another line w/ Stephane Morin and Owen Nolan (1 or 2 goals this year).
Also, he assisted on 2 of the 3 Nord goals.

Did you guys know that Tugnutt was cut from the team at the start of
the season? He came back when 1 of the 2 goalies got hurt (actually,
neither of these 2 goalies are in Quebec now).

The 83 shots on goal against the Hawks some 50 years ago was by
the B's. Imagine that, 73 shots and not even a team record :*).

Andy

    
    Ironically, Quebec's great effort clinched the worst record
    in the league; their reverse-magic number was 1.  They get Lindros.
    
    Incidentally, IMHO, Lindros is not the next Gretzky, Lemieux,
    or Messier.  He's the next Tim Kerr.  Which is still pretty 
    good.
    
    Charlie
    
    

Oh boy, did the Nords spank the Flounders on Saturday night.

I still have very mixed feelings about the Whalers.  As a loyal fan,
I still root for them, but I couldn't help being elated about their
loss, because it's one more nail (I hope) in Rick Ley's coffin.

The more I watch Ley, the more I'm convinced he's incapable of
motivating a winning team at the NHL level.  These guys are just
not hustling, not working, not doing much of anything.  The talent
is there.  I mean this Zalapski kid looks good.  He got his first
two goals with the Whalers on Saturday -- however, he's -8 since
joining the team.  Cullen is -9!


Just gets more and more interesting.  Looks like we'll be playing
the Bruins.  I hope we get swept.  Then, I hope the next time
I'm in Hartford, they have Rick Ley's head on a pole outside
the Civic Center....

'Saw

�                      -< Bs Kiss their sisters - Again! >-

Vice is nice, but incest is best ;^)    

Marcel Aubut, President/Owner of the Nords, has put aside $500K
in his budget to sign Lindros next year. The following rumours
won't help him sign the young star:

- Dave King and the Cdn Olympic Team say they have sponsors to lure
  Lindros away from the NHL and into the '92 Olympics.

- Lindros' Mom says that her son may not be ready yet for the NHL.
  (Feel free to read between the line on this one).

- The on again, off again NAHL may have a team in Hamilton and Lindros
  may go there. This would give Hamilton instant NHL credibility and
  in case of a 'merger' Hamilton would be a shoe-in (ie. same thing
  happenned in Edmonton w/ GreAtzky in '79).

- If Lindros doesn't sign for the team that drafted him w/in 2 years,
  he can then become a free agent and get drafted again.

He finished the OHL season w/ 150+ pts and 190+ PIMs. In his
only OHL season, Wayne GreAtzky had 190pts, he was 16. Lemieux had
252pts in his last QMJHL season, he was 18. Also, the Nords had
92% of their seats sold this year. Therefore Lindros won't be 'saving'
the franchise like 66 and 99 did in their NHL cities.

Andy

    
    Interesting comment Andy, but do you really think Lindros
    will play Olympic hockey over NHL hockey?  I think the money
    he will make in the NHL and the prestige will overcome him, 
    and he will play in the NHL.
    
    One point you have though is that if he did play for the 
    Olympic team for 2 years, he could then play for anyone??
    I thought the rule was you have to sit out one year totally
    after leaving the olympic team to become a free agent?
    If you are right, maybe he should go this route.  Personally,
    I have seen him play, and I think that he will have a tough	
    in the NHL, not that he can't play there, but I don't think 
    he will make as big as an impression as everyone wants/thinks
    he will.  The pressure is going to be high, can he live up
    to it?
    
    
    
    
    Jim
    

    Tugnutt's performance was awesome. His play reminded me of two other
    goalies who stood on their heads to thwart the B's:
    
    Ken Dryden of the Habs in '71 playoffs
    Tony O of the Hawks in the '75 playoffs
    
    MikeL
    

    The Broons are playing Quebec again tonight.  I haven't heard whether
    or not Tugnutt will be between the pipes again.  The game is on TV38.
    
    Mark.

    Mark, according to Sunday's Worcester T&G, Tugnutt is scheduled to play
    against the Bs tonight.  Lemelin will be between the pipes for Boston.
    
    The Bruins continued their shot barrage against Buffalo on Wednesday
    night by firing the puck something like 45 times to Buffalo's 11. 
    Buffalo was more efficient on their chances, but the Bs outscored them
    6-3.  I don't know how many shots the Bs got off in their last game
    (which ended up a tie).

    Mac, the B's were pretty much outplayed for the entire game against the
    Caps Sunday, save for the opening minutes of the 3rd.  If Boston had 25
    shots I'd be surprised.
    
    Mark.

    RE: -1
    
    Mark,
    
    Good guess!!  The B's shots on goal against the Caps was 5-8-11-2, for
    a total of 26.  Caps were 8-10-11-4 for a total of 33.

    Are 71 saves a record ? I'm not a big hockey fan, but that was
    incredible ....

    
    No Doc, the record is 83 or 84.  The 74 shots on net the B's had
    against Quebec got me thinking.  How many shots did they have on net
    against Edmonton in the triple overtime game last year?  Wasn't it 60+
    or am I dreaming?
    
    Neely bagged #'s 49 and 50 last night.  Congrats to Cam and JD!  
    
    I still think Weimer's a major league stiff.
    
    					Steve

    
    The record is held by the B's. They had 83 shots on net against 
    Chicago. Anyone have the date?  I think it was in the 50's or 40's
    I am not sure tho'. 
    
    
    Steve

        I thought that it was against Pete LoPresti and the Minnesota
    North Stars?
    
    Bull~
    

No, it was a long time ago.  Like maybe the 30's.  I could look
it up in my Hockey guide later tonight.

btw, that's a GREAT book if you're a hockey fan.  It's got all the
rosters, all the records, and player stats for active and retired
players.  I'll put the exact title in tomorrow....

'Saw

    Sam LoPresti (Pete's uncle or dad and I can't remember which) for the
    Chicago Blackhawks at Boston in either 1938 or 1939.  Bruins won the
    game 3-2.  Shots and saves were in the low eighties.
    
    John

    I thought I read something recently that the record is held by a Bruins
    goalie back in the 40's.  This goalie played for two seasons, then was
    drafted (or volunteered) by the Navy during WWII.  His ship was sunk
    and he spent something like a month at sea in a rubber raft before
    being rescued.  
    
    					Steve  

    And I thought it was in the early 40's!!!! (like 41 or 43)  Oh well!

    I remeber reading in the paper that it was in 1941 or 1942.
    
    -Paul (I wish I hadn't thrown that paper away)

 The record I heard was 83 shots by the B's in a 3-2 Bruins win in 1941.

Bob

    Oh, well.  What's a year or 2 among friends?  :-)
    
    John

    Tugnutt wasn't as spectacular last night as the Bs shot down Quebec 7-4
    (one was an empty netter by Cam Neely for his 50th of the season).
    
    I only saw the 3rd period.  How about that rookie referee!  He actually
    tossed two players (Twist & Nilan) for fighting.  He certainly made a
    statement on who was in control of the game.  He did whimp out a little
    later though, and only awarded a double minor to a Nordique for a high
    stick that drew blood.
    
    Is Guy Lefleur the only player in the NHL who isn't wearing a helmet? 
    The Nordiques are going to have a �-hr pregame show at their last home
    game of the season to honor Lafleur in his final game of his career.

    There are about 7 players in the NHL who still play without helmets -
    Guy Lafleur, Rod Langway, Harold Snepts, Brad Marsh, Randy Carlyle,
    Doug Wilson and Craig MacTavish are the ones that immediately come to
    mind.
    
    John

>    There are about 7 players in the NHL who still play without helmets -
>    Guy Lafleur, Rod Langway, Harold Snepts, Brad Marsh, Randy Carlyle,
>    Doug Wilson and Craig MacTavish are the ones that immediately come to
>    mind.

Yeah, I believe the deal is that if you were in the league in 1979, 
and were not wearing a helmet, you didn't have to wear one.  Anyone
who comesin since, MUST...


'Saw

    � Anyone who comesin since, MUST...
    
    Shouldn't that read "anyone with common sense SHOULD" ;^)

All we've heard this week in the province of Quebec on TV or
radio is talk about Lafleur. After Sunday's game he promised
never to wear another hockey equipment again, but may only
skate w/ his kids. He will be raffling off his equipment for
charity, some charity's going to get a whole lot a dough.
Lafleur's last 2 games this weekend are in Mtl at the Forum
on Saturday and Sunday at Le Colis�e in Quebec. 

Andy

�    � Anyone who comesin since, MUST...
�    
�    Shouldn't that read "anyone with common sense SHOULD" ;^)

Oh, I agree.  To me it's like riding a motorcycle.  In Connecticut
there's no helmet law, but I DON'T ever ride without one.

I don't know how there weren't more serious head injuries back then....

'Saw

       There were'nt more head  injuries because the game was quite  different
    20 years ago. I think that full cages have given a sense of security 
    and the stick work comes way up. I don't have stats, but play the game.
    
    The Kids today are brutal.....
    
    
       Helmet technology has come along was too, those things they used to
    call hockey helmets were basically garbage. They offer about the same 
    protection as the old pudding bowls the early roadracers wore. The only
    thing they would stop are mosquitoes.  
    
     Besides who would ride without a helmet anyway ? When I have on
    either a hockey helmet or riding helmet I feel invincible, however
    without them I feel naked.
    
    weird feeling...
    
    
    -Mike

    The Pittsburgh Penguins defeated the Detroit Red Wings tonite and, in
    doing so, have won the Patrick Division title.  It is the first time
    since the Pens entered the league in 1967 that the team has taken first
    place in their division.
    
    JaKe
    

Wow, did the Whale looked like Day Old Beached Fish Product last night!

They STUNK.

Holding a 3-2 lead going into the 3rd, they let the Devils tie it up.

Okay, so we go to overtime, where the Whalers have lost the last 4 straight.
NJ hadn't won an OT game since late 1989.

Well, the Whalers didn't disappoint!  About halfway through OT, Dork
tries to freeze the puck at the side of the net....He screws up,
Doug Brown grabs the puck and puts it home on the wrap-around....

Flounders lose 4-3.

I'm sure Ley is blaming Koharski in the paper this morning, just haven't
seen it yet.


Bottom line?

Well, the Whalers have clinched 4th place (YIPPPEEEE!) for the umpteenth
year in a row.  This year they should be easy pickin' for Boston in the
First Round.

The only bright spot will be that this is making Rick Ley look like
the day old moldy stiff that he is......

'Saw

    re: .381
    
    So I take it you won't be in line this morning purchasing tickets for
    the first 3 Whalers playoff games at 10:00??  ;^)

    Actually this year's Whalers playoff tickets might be a collector's
    item. It may be the last playoff series they're involved in for
    years to come since the Nords will be in the thick of things,
    if not next year DEFINITELY the next. 
    
    Andy

>    So I take it you won't be in line this morning purchasing tickets for
>    the first 3 Whalers playoff games at 10:00??  ;^)


hahahahahahaha......


Personally, here's how I feel.

First, for the WAY they treated Ron Francis (not for the trade, that's
alway possible) but for the way they demeaned him, I hope that so many
of the Whalers fans rejected their playoff ticket offers, that the
Civic Center turns into a sea of black and gold jersies rooting for
the Bruins.

Further, I hope that the seas of black and gold starts chanting 
Ley is a bum, ley is a bum...


I think my brother might go, but he's taken to wearing his Pittsburgh
jersey, with #9 and Francis on the back 8^)

'Saw

    Congrats to the Pens and Jake.  My rangers have gone through their
    annual spring fold.  Sigh.
    
    JD

    Ya know, as I was watching the game lasted (tm) night, I was thinking
    how it would be possible for Ley to keep his job.  The best reason I
    could think of was management would say Ley had too many personnel
    changes.  Therefore, lets give Ricky-boy another shot!
    
    DEVILS looked good, although I was really hoping that Terreri would
    be in the net.  And Lemieux (Claude) did an awesome job to get that
    first goal he assisted on.

    Re. a few back;Kweebek.
    
    The Nords SHOULD be competetive again with all the golddang draft picks
    they've gotten and will get because of their inspired play the last few
    years. They're lucky that Quebec is a great hockey town and put up with
    their bull for the last few years. 
    Educate me on the problems of playing in Quebec;the fact that a lot of
    players hate to play there. Is it the Anglo-French cultural thing,
    taxes, or something else?
    
    
    MikeL
    
    By the by; Nothing against LaFleur, he was a great player in his time,
    but who cares about him anymore. He should have kept his skates in the
    garage permanently 4 years ago. are the Nords planning a ceremony for
    him (again!) They should say, Thanks and stay away for sure this time,
    and if you get the itch, go join Jacques LeMaire in Switzerland,
    Germany, or wherever the hell he is.
    
    Old Habs should die and not fade away!
    
    

    A lot of the Quebec thing has to do with the "Frenchness" of the city
    and region. In Montreal, most people (70% ?) speak French as their
    first language, but a lot of people are bilingual. Also Montreal is a
    much larger city, so even if there were a smaller %, the total number
    would be larger.  
    
    Many English speaking players (and their families) have trouble, but
    really, a lot of it is due to the pampered nature of the job. If we all
    in this conference were forced to go to another job in a different 
    culture, I'd like to think that most would be open-minded enough to at 
    least try to make the best of it. Many players are accustomed to having
    it their own way. Also many English speakers, it seems, are so used to
    people speaking their language, they have trouble or never make the
    effort to learn another.
    
    Mario Lemieux hadn't lived outside of Quebec and could barely speak any
    English at all when he turned pro. However, he realized that he would
    have to for both hockey reasons (TV interviews, team mates, etc.) and
    just for living reasons. It would be nice if other players could think
    the same way about playing in Quebec. 
    
    Tom

The main reason players don't want to play in the province of Quebec
is that taxes are excessively high (approx 45%). This was talked about
in great length in this note a month or 2 ago. The 2nd reason is that
Quebec City is approx 95% french, Mtl is a bilingual city (w/
french only signs).

	Lafleur will be given a key to the Ex-Habs dressing room
in the Forum and a fat cheque for the charity of his choice on Saturday
night before his last game at the Forum. The following night in Quebec 
at Le Colisee will be his last hockey game. BTW, Jacques Lemaire only 
coach/played in Switzerland for 1 year, returned to coach Plattsburgh 
University of the NCAA for 1 year, move on to the QMJHL for 1 more year 
then onto the Habs where he coach for 2 years and moved to the chief 
of player development w/in the organization.



Andy

regarding learning another language:

	This is not an indictment of the french, and it only
	relates to my *personal* experiences, but here's what
	I've found.

	Any time I've been in a french culture and have attempted
	french, I've had people be really rude to me.  I don't speak
	french badly, in fact one lady in France told me I had hardly
	any trace of an American accent.  But there's something about
	the impatient, rude way they treat you.

	On the other hand, through Digital, and other places, I've
	had occasion to hear many people try and speak english.  I've
	been patient, helpful, and have seen the triumph in the other
	person's eyes when they finally got their point out in English.

	Hell, even the Germans helped me out when I made some small
	attempts at their language.

Just my experience....

'SAw

    One thing I should mention about LaFleur. I was in Burlington,VT on
    business in Feb of '89 ( heat wave, was only -2F) and I decided to
    head to Montreal for Saturday day and night. Arrived in Montreal (
    another heat wave, only -15F) and the town was abuzz because the Flower
    was back in Montreal for the first time with the Rangers. We stayed
    and watched the game at a local pub, and saw Guy put on an amazing
    performance against the Habs. I think he scored a hat trick but the
    Habs won 7-6. The Montreal fans shook the building every time LaFleur
    scored for New York. It sent shivers up me spine as the patrons in
    the bar were just as vociferous for the Flower. They all went home
    happy; LaFleur put on a show and the Habs won. What a night.
    
    MikeL
    

re .390
	Don't compare the French w/ the Quebecois. They may speak
the same language but they are otherwise TOTALLY dif'rnt. The French
from France are VERY snobbish. You wouldn't believe how Quebeckers
appreciate, and even love, it when an 'Anglais' at least tries to
speak the language. Case in point; Gary Carter and Mike McPhee. Others
like Chris Chelios weren't, how can I say...'as appreciated' because
they never tried. Lots of Nord players are taking private french lessons,
sponsored by the Nords management.
	
	Claude Loiselle could speak french but he wanted out. Why?
Money/Taxes. Jocelyn Lemieux said that when he got traded from Mtl
to Chicago last year, his salary went up $50K (currency+taxes). 


Andy

>	Don't compare the French w/ the Quebecois. They may speak
>the same language but they are otherwise TOTALLY dif'rnt. The French
>from France are VERY snobbish. You wouldn't believe how Quebeckers


Wasn't confining my observations just to France.  Have been in
Montreal several times and met with the same results.  Again, 
not from EVERYone, but it seemed to be more the norm.

(unless it's the third eye I have in the middle of my forehead 8^))

'Saw

    Last night, Jay Leno on the Tonight Show said:
    
    "They are almost finished with the new DisneyWorld outside of Paris. 
    And spokesmen say that it will be manned by polite, friendly French
    people who will be happy to assist you...
    
    
    
    
    ...in Fantasy Land!"
    

    Well, JaKe and Bob Hunt can attest to the fact that they ain't good and
    they ain't bad.  The French womens (le womens Francais) and the other
    touristy womens (der fraulinzes, e l'italianianoas, et. al.) really
    don't appreciate when you stare.  I wasn't staring most of the time; I
    was too busy wiping the sand off my tongue.
    
    Anyway, I was your basic ugly American in disguise, taking pictures
    through my legs (got several nice shots of my ankles and some good
    close ups of my leg hair) or pretending to take pictures of the sail
    boarders and dropping the camera angle down into range at the last
    minute and click.  I really don't think they suspected, but in turn, my
    pictures are mostly fuzzy and from afar.
    
    But they bring back some lovely St. Tropez memories.
    
    	--dan'l

    Dan'l:
    
    I don't recall seeing any "fuzz" in the pictures!!!  (8^0  (8^)
    
    JaKe
    

    Caps and Canucks both clinched playoff spots last night.
    
    
    py

    
    I LOVE Montreal! 8^)))) Just don't get totally bombed, close Club
    Supersex and tell some wierdo guy to F*ck off when he asks you 
    if you want to buy a credit card! It can cause quite a stir!!!!!
    
    
    
    
    Steve

The thing that impressed me the most about Montreal was how very
clean the city was.  The only city I've seen that can come
anywhere near close was Munich.

I'm not a city person.  I like to visit, have fun and go home.
Probably because I'm just a ol' country boy.  But in Munich
and Montreal I felt almost comfortable....

'Saw

    I was in Montreal in October of 1989 for the Barbershop Harmony
    Society's Northeastern District convention, and agree 100% with 'Saw's
    first paragraph.  VERY clean city!
    
    Montreal is bilingual enough so that one who speaks only English can
    get by (in a couple of restaurants, our waiter/waitress greeted us with
    "Bonjour, good day" and then noted how we responded), but French
    appeared to very much be the principal language.
    
    
    py

    I love Montreal too.  It is clean, but compared to the first time I was
    there (1974) and the last time (1990), it had gotten much dirtier and
    grimier. 
    
    Some great looking wimmins there, fer sure.
    
    Toronto is a very clean city, also.
    
    ANd Vancouver, B.C. is Yowza! City...
    
    JD

    I agree, you can get by in Montreal... we went up last summer.  One
    buddy still gets a kick from the way the Concierge (female) said
    "Bonjour..."
    
    Le Club Supersex, huh?  I think I remember stopping by there... near
    Paper Lady type stories... of course after drinking Labatt's at Le
    Stade Olympic into the 12th inning (what 7 inning cutoff) helped with
    that I'm sure...

    Montreal -- Definitely one of my favorite cities in the world! Been
    there a few times, since it's only 4-5 hours from the Boston area, and
    it makes an easy 3-day weekend trip. I'd love to live there, and almost
    did a few years ago. I got accepted to grad school at McGill, but by not 
    being a Canadian citizen, I couldn't get a working permit and I would 
    have had to work at some kind o job. Hey, I could pretend I was Canadian 
    by giving every third sentence a rhetorical "eh?", but they wouldn't go 
    for it.
    
    Tom

    JD,
    	Gotta agree with ya on Vancouver. Beautiful city,picturesque,ringed
    by mountains. Also many different ethnic enclaves in the area. Only
    one peculiarity that I don't know is Canadian-wide or limited to B.C.
    In driving around looking for beer,I went into the liquor store
    and found only warm beer. I asked the owner where I could get some
    cold beer. He said and I quote " In a cold beer store!" Say what!
    I couldn't believe it. His sarcastic comment was "Well, if we all
    sold cold beer, they'd be none left!"
    And of course he added the "Eh!"
    
    Too much
    
    MikeL

    Mike,
    
    They also have very few pubs - so you go into a restaurant for a beer,
    and sit at the bar - you order a beer, and the bartender hands you a
    menu and says "Do you have the intention of thinking about getting
    something to eat?  Say yes."  You say yes.  He serves you.  Pretty
    strange, eh?
    
    JD

    
    For me, the Pens' Patrick division champeenship wasn't won Wednesday 
    against Detroit, but rather in the Spectrum the night before.  Beating 
    the Flyers (the Pens' constant and consistent nemesis) in their own 
    building when a playoff berth was on the line for the Flyers was a
    big big win and the clincher.  Mario had all the goals (2 breakaways
    (1 full strength and 1 short-handed) and a PP goal) in a 3-1 victory.
    
    And it is nice to know that there ain't no way that the Pens'll 
    have to play the Flyers in the playoffs.
    
    Charlie
    

    I think we can definitely expect to see the same crap on Wednesday
    as lasted night.  gOWhaLE didn't disappoint me.  See that hit that
    Neely took?  He got nailed.

From: [email protected]
    
                               W   L   T   Pts.  GF   GA
x-Pittsburgh                   41  33   6   88   342  305
y-NY Rangers                   36  31  13   85   297  265
y-Washington                   37  36   7   81   258  258
y-New Jersey                   32  33  15   79   272  264
Philadelphia                   33  37  10   76   252  267
NY Islanders                   25  45  10   60   223  290
    
x-Boston                       44  24  12  100   299  264
y-Montreal                     39  30  11   89   273  249
y-Buffalo                      31  30  19   81   292  278
y-Hartford                     31  38  11   73   238  276
Quebec                         16  50  14   46   236  355
    
                               W   L   T   Pts.  GF   GA
x-Chicago                      49  23   8  106   284  211
y-St. Louis                    47  22  11  105   309  250
y-Detroit                      34  38   8   76   273  298
y-Minnesota                    27  39  14   68   256  266
Toronto                        23  46  11   57   241  318
    
x-L. Angeles                   46  24  10  102   340  254
y-Calgary                      46  26   8  100   344  263
y-Edmonton                     37  37   6   80   272  272
y-Vancouver                    28  43   9   65   243  315
Winnipeg                       26  43  11   63   260  288

    RE:.408
    
    I don't think so Karen.  I looked at lasted nights game, as an attempt
    on the goWhaLe part, to pay back the B's.  The game was meaningless. 
    The Whale looked to hit a few guys, and stir up the sh*t.  Once
    Wednesday comes around, I expect to see hard played games, with a B's
    sweep!
    
    I expecially loved watching Hodgy netting #30, after getting mauled. 
    Bourque just told him to get in front of the net, and wait for the
    shot.  Text book play to say the least.
    
    RTG

Yeah, but it was being dished out by both sides Karen.

McKenzie kicked Nilan's sorry a__.


I still figure the Bruins to sweep, and if the Whalers get 10 goals
I'll be surprised.  I was hoping to see the Bruins put in 8 last night.
It takes 8 nails to close a coffin, right?   RIP Rick Ley you stiff....

This team is in dire straits.  Right now they could go either way, but
I'd bet next year they have a worse year....

'Saw

A piece of trivia for ya:

	On this date in 1947, Gordie Howe drew his first even
	misconduct penalty during an altercation with Gus Mortson
	in a playoff game....


'Saw

    Anyone have an update on the Pens' injuries going into the playoffs?  I
    heard they lost a key player the other night.  Is Lemeiux back after
    taking that puck to the face.
    
    	--dan'l

    
    
    Mario is back, he assisted on a goal against the Flyers Saturday.
    Mark Recchi injured his knee.  My mom called this morning to tell me
    that the papers say it's just a strain.  He should be back.
    
    Charlie
    
    

    What a race between Chicago and ST. Louis, and between LA and Calgary!
    When was the last time that 5 teams finished with 100 points or better?
    
    Mark.

    Bob Murdoch, last year's winner of the Coach of the Year,
    was fired by the Winnipeg management yesterday. Just goes to
    show that the jinx of the 'Coach of the Year' award continues.
    
    If Tom Webster gets 4 games for taking a swipe at Doug Gilmour,
    Mike Milbury gets 5 for pulling Byers off the ice to avoid
    a brawl then WHY doesn't Keenan get anything for PUSHING and
    TELLING his players to 'GET OUT THERE' to start a brawl in
    St.Louis?
    
    Andy

    -1
    
    Correct me if I'm worry but wasn't the President of the NHL in the
    stands that night?
    
    John Davidson said the same thing after seeing the highlights of that
    game.
    
    

    RE: last few
    
    According to the rules, since both Peluso and Chase got a 10-game
    suspension for leaving the bench, both Keenan *AND* Sutter should
    have been gone for 5 games.
    
    Yes, Zeigler was there.

    
    This is a prime example of why the NHL has very little credibility.
    Keenan should've been gone for 5 games.< thats a period folks!
    It is total bullsh*t.
    
    
    Steve

    Just some comments about the NHL. 
    
    For those of you that have ESPN on Sunday mornings around 11:00 they
    have a talk show call "The Reporters".  It was a week after the
    Blackhawks Blues game and they all said that that game set hockey back
    10 years and they continued to really put down the league.  They all
    laughed at expansion, the fights, the lost ESPN contract, that the NHL
    has problems marketing their product, why wasn't Zeigler invited to the
    commissioners meeting. 
    
    I have to say that the reporters that are on the show have very limited
    hockey knowledge( ie Bob Ryan of the Boston Globe). 
    
    Some of the same thoughts were echoed by the Boston sports writers on
    the show Sports Beat after the B's Isles game.
    
    My father works for Raytheon and they had a QC meeting last week and
    they had an outside firm do the class and he was told  that the worse run
    business in the US is the NHL franchises.
    
    
    Hey what do the sports writers know?
    

    The problem with the NHL is the inconsistency in which they apply the
    rules.
    
    You not only have the Keenan/Sutter issue; but also the drug policy
    of the NHL.  Supposedly, if you do drugs you're out.  All one has to
    do is look at the likes of Probert and Fuhr and know its a joke.
    
    In regards to the NHL franchises being the worst, I have to agree.
    The league took the Sportschannel America contract due to the amount
    of money.  Unfortunately for the fans who can't get cable, and the
    sporadic way SC shows games, the league ended up selling themselves
    short.
    
    Apparently the League is looking into having several networks cover
    the league so as to spread out the coverage of the games and make
    the games more accessible to view.  I guess that NBC still wants to
    carry the All-Star game and possibly pick up some regular season
    games, as does ABC.

    I have to a gree about .421's comment on Bob Ryan. The man has little
    knowledge of hockey, and has time and tiem again stated his preference
    for basketball. Nothing necessarily worng with that, but why have him
    speak out on hockey issues when he is NOT an "expert opinion"? Why not
    get someone who knows hockey, like Francis Rosa, or even noters from the 
    Bruins notes file :-)
    
    Tom

Well, tonight's the night the Whalers take on the Broons. (yawn).

Probably the biggest statement about the series was in the
Hartford Courant this morning.

The two predominant hockey columnists Viv Bernstein, and Jeff Jacobs,
made their picks for all the series and eventual finalists.
The part that stuck out in my mind was at the bottom of the Pittsburgh
blurb.  It said:

		See you, Ron and Ulfie, in Boston


I still figure the Bruins to sweep, and sincerely hope they do.
If they do, then the onus will be on EJ to get rid of Ley.  He
probably won't, but the friction in the organization will be
incredible.....

'Saw

    Who is carrying the Bs' playoff games in the Boston area, 38, NESN, or
    both?

    I know NESN has tonight's game.  I would say that they'll carry the
    home games and TV38 will have the away games....  maybe.

    Mac, what Karen said.
    
    BTW, Janney is questionable tonight while nursing a sprained ankle.
    Moog and El Sid will be between the pipes.  Yours truly will be in
    section 49 :^).
    
    Anyone else heading in?
    
    Mark.

    I was wondering about Janney.  I thought he was gone for the rest of
    the year.  The reports I heard said that he broke the ankle.

So the DORK is in net, eh?

Whooopeee.

Bruins win tonights game 4-1.  You heard it here first....

'Saw

    Mac, the Broons' brass is keeping mum on Janney for some strange reason.
    They pulled the same stunt with Bourque last year, right up until his
    dramatic appearance in Game 7 against Hartford last year.  In fact,
    Janney left the dressing room with ice on both ankles after the injury
    in NY on Saturday to try and trip the press up, I guess.
    
    Anyway, I'd bet a week's pay that he'll be in the lineup. Look for
    Poulin to move up to the 1st line in between Neely and Lazaro,
    and Skriko-Hodge-Sweeney as the number 2 line, if Janney doesn't play.
    Otherwise it'll be Neely-Janney-Lazaro, Burridge-Poulin-Christian, and
    then Skriko-Hodge-Sweeney.  
    
    Mark.

If *I* were Millbury, what *I'd* do is let Janney sit.

The Bruins are gonna calkwalk all over the Whalers.  No shit.  I'm 
serious.  The only excitement is gonna be McKenzie kickin' Nilan's
butt, if you a Whaler fan.

So you sit Janney for the first series, and heal up those ankles. That
way he's fresh for Montreal or Buffalo.

Bruins in 4....Get the brooms, it's a done deal.


'Saw

    Read in the B's file that Janney will sit tonights game out.  Hey
    Mark you betta cough up that weeks pay! ;-)
    
    I won't be at tonights game, but I'll be there Friday!!
    
    Regarding the schedules it will be just like Karen said, home games
    on NESN, away games on 38.  The only time it will change is if for
    the Conference title the game is at home and the B's have the
    possibility of clinching TV38 will pick up coverage....something to
    do with contracts between the two networks.

    Pens .vs. Debbils tonite at the Civic Arena here in Pgh.
    
    My prediction for the 1st round, Pens in 5.
    
    JaKe
    

    Well frankwa, the DORK and the rest of the whalers skate away with game
    one, i missed first period when the whalers killed off the 5 minute
    
    major, good team effort , cullen and dineen stood out.. Bruins were
    buzzing all around net early in 3rd  when score was 3-2, then the fluke
    
    goal ona  moog screen put the game away, so much for a sweep, im sure
    
    the bruins got their wake up call, but hope they stay in their slumber
    a little longer
    
    
    dinz
    

>    Well frankwa, the DORK and the rest of the whalers skate away with game
>    one, i missed first period when the whalers killed off the 5 minute
    
So Dinz, ya gonna double or nothin' yer bet with Jo?  8^)

Yeah, the boys in green made a liar outta me last night.  When the
game started with a B's goal at :23 and then the major to Hunter (was
it *that* bad? -- not compared to the rest of the game ;^)) I thought
"it figures".

I think the key was the containment of Neely.  Cyr did a good job on
him.  

Think the Whalers were extremely lucky to hold the one-goal lead in the
third until Cullen's goal on Moog.  You can't pull into your shell
at the ten-minute mark on a regular basis and expect to win....

Revised prediction:

	Whalers take one in Harfaa, Bruins win it all 4-2....

'Saw

    If Hartford is successful in goading Neely into stupid penalties then
    they could win the series.  Neely is too important to the Bruins to be
    spending his time in the "sin bin" and it remains his biggest fault on
    the ice.
    
    John

>    If Hartford is successful in goading Neely into stupid penalties then
>    they could win the series.  Neely is too important to the Bruins to be
>    spending his time in the "sin bin" and it remains his biggest fault on
>    the ice.

yeah, but that was his downfall in the first period.  the other two
periods, I thought the containment of Neely was much more of an influence.

There's two ways to play Neely.  Really in tight (like last night) or
else let him carry the puck from his blue line up.  He's a great player, 
but not a great play-maker (compared to others on the B's).

Personally, I say play him just like they played him last night.....

'Saw

    First of all, the Whale outplayed the Bruins in every facet of the game
    and deserved the W.  Sid made some key saves with the score 3-2, which
    kept Hartford's intensity up.  Hartford also put on a forchecking
    clinic.
    
    Having said that, Kahorski called a terrible game.  I doubt that it
    would have made a difference, as the B's power play stunk up the joint.
    However, he blew several calls (2 interferences in particular) that
    were directly in his field of view.  And the tripping call on Christian
    was beyond belief.
    
    Anyway, before JD chimes in with his inevitable note about B's fans
    crying about the refs, the Whale would have beaten Boston regardless of
    the officiating.  They clearly took Boston out of their game.  And
    Ninja hit the nail on the head.  Neely has to stay out the box.  And
    I'll add that Nilan has to stay on the bench.  He's a liability.
    
    Mark.

    I can understand that most of you work in the Mass. area and the
    Bruins-Whalers series is of prime interest to you. But some of us are
    from outside this particular area and don't have up-to-date access to
    hockey scores. Any chance of somebody giving me the scores to the
    ohther games played last night, especially the Montreal-Buffalo game?
    
    Many thanks,
    
    Ted.

Ted,

Montreal 7 Buffalo 5


Lufay --

I agree about the officiating, but he blew some calls on both sides.

The late tripping call on Zalapski was about as weak as you could
get, compared to some other stuff.  About halfway into the third,
when the B's had the Whale bottled up, he was blowing about a
call every ten seconds.  Whalers were holding like hell, the B's
were interfering...

Koharski has got to be the 3rd worst ref in the league.  And none
of the NHL refs would win a prize for accuracy anyway.

I think the Whalers win was a fluke....

'Saw

    Other games last night
    
    NJ 3 Pitt 1
    NYR 2 Wash 1
    
    pete

    FRANKWA,
    
    How was it a fluke? The whalers granted held on for dear life
    
    and if the bruins had  any kind of good shots early in 3rd  outcome
    
    would have been different, but thats a mute point because they
    
    didnt get the big shots on, due to blocks by whaler defense
    
    and is this a good word to use? :)  lack of cohesion on bruins forwards
    
    Bruins may take next 4, which will make this a fluke  but my HEART
    says this may go seven again..
    
    Just my opinion
    
    dinz
    

    Hawk, I'll get you for this.
    
    Mark.

    
       "There's no tomorrow" <--- How original! 
    
        Bull~

No, I still think that the Whalers win was a fluke (anyone get the 
pun there?)

The Bruins forwards were somewhat in disarray, but Janney was out,
and Neely was contained.  If Janney comes back, and if the containment
on Neely should break, then it's lights out for the Whale.

the Whale was EXTREMELY lucky in the 3rd period.  They reverted when
the pressure was on, to watching the puck, letting Bruins go anywhere
they wanted virtually unseen.  They had no plan for getting out of the
zone.  The first time they had a plan, they scored.  A team can't keep
backing in, and playing defense like that.  One game it'll work, but
over a series, it won't.

Look for the Bruins to take Friday's game, and split the first two
in Hartford.   They'll own the rest.  The Whalers were playing
so far over their heads last night, it wasn't funny.  Further, 
they won't be able to keep it up.

One interesting point comes to mind, however.  Hypothetically, 
*if* the Whalers could get by the Bruins, they stand a better
chance against the Habs (assuming they beat Buffalo).  If they
were to get out of the Adams Division, then their task is easier
still, since they played well against Patrick division clubs...


Question:  Has a 4th place finisher ever won the Cup?  I don't have
my hockey guide here......


'Saw

    good points frankwa, regarding  flukes... yes, want bruins file
    
    on flukes?
    
    dinz
    

    typo  surprise, surprise.. meant to say wasnt..
    
                   

    1971 Canadiens were 4th in their division and beat the Bruins in 7
    games in the first round.  Habs went on to capture the Cup, beating
    Chicago (sorry, A&W) in 7 games in the final.  That was the series in
    which Ken Dryden absolutely stoned the Bruins.  
    
    John

Thanks John.

I remember that series very well.  I was in 8th grade I think, and
there was a penalty shot in the final series too.  I was rooting for
the Habs...

'Saw

    Rangers played well last night.  The Vancouver, BC station showed the
    Habs-Sabres.   3rd period was real ugly, a bunch of misconduct
    penalties.  Sabres jumped to a 2 goal lead early, but Montreal answered
    with 4 first period goals.
    
    Wish RIchter could have had the goose egg for the Rangers, but it
    wasn't to be.  Bernie Nichols finally scored - maybe the benching
    helped.
    
    JD

    
    Neely can shoot a puck through a mail slot from 50 feet, but he
    couldn't carry the puck in a sap bucket.  Without Janney, he's
    like a rifle without a firing pin.
    
    All night long the B's appeared to be bringing up the puck in slow
    motion, even on the PP.
    
    'Saw, with all the doomin' and gloomin' you've been doing about this
    series, should the Whale continue to play as well as they did lasted
    night, you might be the first *winner* to ever enter the Crow Cafe.
    
    Dickstah
    

>    'Saw, with all the doomin' and gloomin' you've been doing about this
>    series, should the Whale continue to play as well as they did lasted
>    night, you might be the first *winner* to ever enter the Crow Cafe.
    
Yeah, but Dickstah, a few Whaler excellent_losses will spell the
end (hopefully) for Rick Ley.

To paraphrase the Bible:

		What gaineth a fan if he should gain the
		Stanley cup, yet retaineth his suckless coach?


8^)

'Saw    

    
    I'm sure the Whalers surprised even themselves lasted night.  If they
    take the first round, they just won't know what to think.  Or what to
    do, for that matter.
    
    And using your Biblical analogy, it would be like telling David that
    Goliath was only a first-rounder, and not a top seed at that.  "What, I
    gotta fight again?!?!!  Oh, great!  Who ya got lined up next, frikken
    Godzilla??  Oh, and ya say I get a pointed stick instead of this lousy
    slingshot??  How 'bout a fricken howitzer for a change fer cripes
    sake!  Sheeesh, how do I get myself into these things anyway..."
    
    Dickstah
    

    RE: .448
    
================================================================================
�COBRA::DINSMORE "Hartford will still show up for gam" 3 lines   4-APR-1991 11:01
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ah, yes.  Hartford may show up, but the question of the hour is will
Dinz show up to fulfill a bet he made last summer?

If you think the Whalers beating the Bruins was a fluke, what about
Detroit beating St. Louis, Minny beating Chicago and last but not 
least Vancouver beating LA! I don't feel so bad now! 

As for the B's Whalers game. The Whalers totally out played Boston
in every facet of the game. True they let down when they got up 3-1
but they still played aggresive defense and did not allow the Bruins
alot of quality shots. THis is exactly how the Whale played Boston lasted
season and they were quite successful to say the least. 

It has become quite appearant that with out Janney, the Bruins power play
sucks eggs.


Steve

re .455:

Jo, you hit the nail on the head....

Will the Dinz pay off his debt?  Next on Geraldo....

Actually, I think you should double up the bet, and see if you 
can't get the Dinz to run a nude relay 8^)

'Saw

    Re Habs-B's, 1971
    
    The Habs actually finished 3rd that year, behind the Rangers. That was
    the last year of the 1 v 3, 2 v 4 playoff setup. From '67 until 1970,
    they had 1-3, 2-4, then the winners of each division (expansion St
    Louis in the finals every year). In '71 they put Chicago in the West
    (but Vancouver was in the east!) and played a crossover semifinal.
    Chicago beat the Rangers and the Habs beat Minn. or St Loo, with the
    Canadiens beating the Blackhawks in the finals. 
    
    They kept this system for only a couple of years until yet another
    expansion brought the 4 division format and seeding the teams 1-8 (with
    byes for the division champs).
                                           

    �Actually, I think you should double up the bet, and see if you
    �can't get the Dinz to run a nude relay 8^)
    
    Nah.  I only want him to fulfill his end of the bet, I don't wanna
    get sick!!!!  ;-)
    
    Jo

>    Nah.  I only want him to fulfill his end of the bet, I don't wanna
>    get sick!!!!  ;-)
>    
>    Jo


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I think we should take a road trip to the Dinz's house.  I've got
a two friends named Vinnie and Guido who are experts at getting 
welchers to pay up....

Then, I think we should have the cameras rolling!

8^)

'Saw

    Juts thought that I'd share with each and everyone of you that
    the dInz called me on Friday and told me to meet him at the
    Littleton High School Track.
    
    Alone.
    
    
    What does he think I am?  Meet him alone???????  I'm not that crazy!
    8^)  Sorry dInz!!!!

Jo, you could allway's bring a Cam Corder! Then we can have a sports
get together and all have a good laugh!



Steve

Well, as Dinzdale's biggest critic for his bet welching, I have to at least
applaud his half effort.  

He will, in time, learn that if he fulfills his commitment, then all
will once again be peace and harmony in SPORTS....

'Saw

    
    Results from last nights Campbell Conference games.
    
    Vancouver vs LA Kings  2 - 1 Vancouver in OT.
       Vancouver leads the series 2 - 1.
    Edmonton vs Calgary    4 - 3 Edmonton
       Edmonton leads the series 2 - 1.  Murphy game winner with 14 seconds
       left in regulation time.
    Chicago vs North Stars 6 - 5 Chicago
       Chicago leads the series 2 - 1.  North Stars had a 5 - 2 lead
       after the 1st period.
    Detroit vs St Louis    5 - 2 Detroit.
       Detroit leads the series 2 - 1.  St Louis 0/8 on the power play
       Detroit completely shut down Hull & Oates.
    
    \pjb

I can't believe the success Detroit and Vancouver are having in the playoffs.
Both these teams looked like doormats all year! St. Louis and L.A. are 
showing that they are vulnerable when you shut down Hull and Gretzky.
Do we have a major upset in the works?


Steve

    
    I live in the Detroit area and we have the luxury of getting
    the Canadian broadcast of the playoffs.  Montreal vs Buffalo when
    the Wales conference is playing.  Edmonton vs Calgary when the
    Campbell conference is playing.  Along with the Detroit vs St Louis
    series by our local station.  The Edmonton Calgary series is the
    most physical series I have ever seen.  In game 2 Messier hit Natress
    from Calgary so hard that he had to stagger back to his bench.  Natress had
    to go past the Edmonton bench to get to his bench and the Edmonton
    players were chuckling as he staggered past.
    
    With the Canadian broadcast we also get Don Cherry and his coaches
    corner.  Don was really giving it to the Buffalo fans for not showing
    up for a playoff game.  He mentioned that if Buffalo can't fill the
    arena for a playoff game against Montreal then they should move the
    franchise up the road to Hamilton.  Hamilton was vying for an expansion
    team but they lost to Ottawa.
    
    \pjb

    	That Chicago/Minnesota game was one helluva good one.  How about
    Probert punching the St. Louis goalie last Saturday night?  I went
    to Haafaa Sunday night and about halfway through the 3rd period
    the stands looked like a WWF production.  8^)
    
    				/Don

What I liked about the Harfaa game was when the Dork lost his mask.
(Some Bruin guy wanged him in the haid, and it flew off.)

Anyway, it looked like the good old days when goalies didn't wear masks.
Sure looked strange...  bet he felt really naked.

Too bad the Bruins scored almost right away.....

'Saw

    
    'Saw,
    
    	I thought we were supposed to refer to *that welcher* as:
    
    		"the_lowest_of_low_welcher_dinz"
    
    	or something like that until he pays up.  What happened? ;*)
    
    Claybroon

>    'Saw,
>    
>    	I thought we were supposed to refer to *that welcher* as:
>    
>    		"the_lowest_of_low_welcher_dinz"
>    
>    	or something like that until he pays up.  What happened? ;*)
    

Well, like the good thief who was just hanging around with Jesus,
the Dinz appeared to have made an attempt to pay off his bet.
That counts for something.

Now, on the other hand, if it was just a SCAM, then we will have to
call him

	The lowest of lowest America's Most Wanted Con Man Welcher Dinz

or LLAMWCMWD for short!

'Saw

    Re Coaches Corner:
    
    I love that bit!  Don Cherry is absolutely a riot!!! From his outfit
    (man, that guy caint match a tie, shirt and jacket to save his life!)
    
    He was ranking on the officials last week - too funny!  You know Don -
    let the boys play....
    
    JD

    Say it ain't so, Dinz, say it ain't so!  
    
    Up until now, I thought it was just a joke.  But, it is now apparent
    that you, ole buddy, haven't paid off a bet you lost.  I can't believe
    it, but it must be true!
    
    Woe is me, woe is me.  My buddy is holdin' out.  For shame, for shame,
    Dinsmore.  
    
    Have you no decency, James?  Have you not one shred of decency?
    
    lEe  :*(

       Were does Cherry still get those shirts?!!
                                       Denny

    	I met Don Cherry last year before the first Edmonton game in
    Boston.  The guy is a character, but he must use a box of starch
    to get his shirt collars to stand up like that.
    
    				/Don

       HE must lacquer 'em up pretty good if you ask me!
                                    Denny

    Detroit has one of the best home records in the NHL, so it's not
    that surprising (to me, who's at least followed some of what they're
    doing) that they're up.  They've been overshadowed in that division
    by the top 2...
    
    -Walt

   Re: Don Cherry

   I catch his act every once in awhile, when I am somewhere with a
   satellite feed. Cherry used to coach the Colorado Rockies, and was
   always a character... but from what I've seen recently, the man has
   been watching WAY too much Wrestling.

   Mike JN

    I thought they couldn't touch that?  Oh well, that's why we pray...
    

    Pens lose to Debbils tonite, 3-1.  Series is even at 2.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    All of the Wales Conference series are tied 2 - 2.
    Buffalo vs Montreal  6 - 4 Buffalo.
    Hartford vs Boston   4 - 3 Whalers.
    Washington vs NYR    3 - 2 Capitals  not sure of this score.
    
    

    
    Tonights Wings Blues game will be minus Probert.  The league
    suspended him 1 game and fined him $500 for punching the Blues
    goalie on Saturday.  You will probably see a lot of stick work
    by the Blues on the Wings. 
    
    The Blues strategy is the same as the Blackhawks, get Probert to
    take unnecessary penalties by everyone working him over with
    their stick when they get the chance.  Saturdays game, Probert reached
    his boiling point in the 3rd period.  I am suprised he didn't explode
    earlier after Butcher almost broke his arm with a cross check.
    
    The Red Wings coach Bryan Murray was asked about the stick work in
    the league.  He attributed it to one thing the players don't respect
    each other.  If the players realized that they can end someone career
    or their career can be ended maybe the stick work will decrease.
    
    \pjb

    PROBIE IZ NOTT TOO BLAM!!! HE IZ MOORE BETTUR THAN CAM SHAFTEE!  HE IZ
    NOTT A GOON!  THIS HERE SUSPENSION IZ A JOAK!!! GO YZERMAN, YSEBAERT
    AND FEDEROV!!! 

    Did they ever finish the game in Minny last night?  Gawd, what a slug-
    fest.
    
    Mark.

It was still going when I turned over to watch CBS 48 Hours on Spring Break.


How bout Detroit?  I'm surprised by that series, lemme tell ya!


'Saw

Minny won the game, but I don't have the final score. They were up 3-0
when I went beddy bye @11:00. What a bunch a goons these two teams are.
The announcers were pissed, everytime the whistle would blow the sticks
went up, and the goon tactics began. It was pretty lame to say the least.
Chicago resorted to trying to break Northstars limbs because they couldn't
keep up with the 'Stars who were flying. I don't remeber which Blackhawk it
was but he kicked a Minny player in the ankle with the side of his skate!
He got a five minute major for intent to injure. This series has been a 
war.



Steve 

Is that series tied at 2 now?

'Saw

NHL Playoffs

Chicago-Minny tied 2-2
Detroit-St. Louis, Det leads series 3-1
L.A.-Vancouver tied 2-2
Edmonton-Calgary, Edmonton leads series 3-1

All WALES conference playoffs are tied at 2 games apiece.



Steve

    Just feel like stirring the pot a little today:
    
    What is the probability of Cullen getting a suspension for spearing
    Lazaro in Game 3?????  Heard on the news this morning that the NHL
    still hasn't made a ruling on it.
    
    Jo

>    What is the probability of Cullen getting a suspension for spearing
>    Lazaro in Game 3?????  Heard on the news this morning that the NHL
>    still hasn't made a ruling on it.
    
This is the first I'd heard of it.  Must have happened before I turned
the game on.  I think I started watching this one late in the second....


'Saw

    I watched the 'Hawks - Stars mess last night, too.
    
    Those totally disgusted announcers were the *Chicago* guys.  I can only
    imagine what the Minnesota announcers must be saying.  I don't
    blame them for being disgusted.  Watching this series had almost made
    me hope that the North Stars win, 'cause I really, really dislike the
    fighting, and Chicago is instigating most of it.  (This from a woman
    who's first ever interest and attendance at a pro sports event was a 
    Blackhawks game.)
    
    So far, none of the hockey I've watched in the playoffs has impressed
    me with being good quality hockey.  Nobody seems to have any focus or
    intensity that carries over from game to game, sometimes not from
    period to period.  Occasionally looks like everyone is milling about
    aimlessly out on the ice, waiting for someone to do something.
    
    Blecch.
    
    A&W

    'Saw,
    
    Apparently, the T.V. cameras didn't pick it up, but I guess the
    tape clearly shows Lazaro getting speared (in the throat, no less).
    The tape wasn't shown on the newscast; so I can only relay the
    information that was given.
    
    When confronted by reporters what he thought of it, Cullen was
    surprised (what the sportscaster called a "uh-oh, I've been caught"
    look).  He knew nothing of the submission of the tape, but he
    didn't deny it either.
    

    
    I understand that the league is looking into suspending Fetisov from
    NJ for the high sticking of Coffey.  From what I read Fetisov's stick
    scratched Coffey's cornea.
    
    Well tonight Detroit goes for the series win at St. Louis.  Probert
    is going to be back in the lineup.
    
    \pjb
    

    Watched the Habs-Sabres game lasted night.  Great game.  Roy and
    Malarchuk were great in goal.  Habs almost blew it as Cote' took a dumb
    penalty with 4:50 left and the Habs up by 1.  Sabres scored to tie it.
    Habs put em away in OT on a Russ Courtnall breakaway set up by a
    beautiful pass by Guy Car-bo-no.
    
    As an aside, the Mtl Forum simply does the bested job with National
    Anthems in sports.  Awesome "Oh Canada"
    
    JD

    I disagree about the Forum doing the bested job.  The guy who sings
    the National Anthem(s) at the Hartford Civic Center wins, hands down.

    Sorry Wheel - No one, I mean *NO ONE* sings Oh Canada better than the
    guy at the forum.  Sends goosebumps down my spine.   THe guy at harfod
    might sing hte Star Spangled Banner better..
    
    JD

    	Nobody sings the National Anthem better than Rosanne Barr!

Oh Canada is a great anthem.  My friends and I have a annoying habit
of belting it out just about anywhere.  Bars, sister's wedding, you 
name it.

Just have to learn the French verse,
Mike 

    What about that Lounge Lizzard at the Boston GaHden? Reminds me of the
    lounge singer Bill Murray used to do on Saturday Night Live. Teamed up
    with John "Java the Hut" Kiley on the cheesebox organ (who plays the
    Greatful Dead's "Touch of Grey", "Bad, Bad, Leroy Brown", and "La Bamba" 
    between periods),and you've got an unbvelievable pair :-)
    
    The Forum used ot have this guy, Roger Doucet, who sang all the
    anthems. he even learned the words to the Swedish, Russian, Czech,
    Finnish (W)German anthems for Canada Cup games played in the Forum. he
    was definitely the best. Unfortunately, I think he died a couple of 
    years ago.
    
    Tom

    Rene Rancourt a lounge lizard?!  Tsk Tsk.
    
    /Don, you forgot an "r" in Sinata.
                                     

    Roger Doucet died in 1979.  He was always my favorite until then.
    
    Rene Rancourt isn't bad except that he looks like a lounge lizard.  He
    has a band that plays at a lot of weddings and I read once that the
    most frequently requested song, other than the usual wedding
    "standards" is his rendition of "O, Canada" - apparently he performs at
    a lot of weddings for Bruins fans.
    
    I like the guy down in Haafaa but Wayne Messmer from Chicago gets my
    vote as tops in the NHL today.
    
    John

    re .500
    
    Mike -
    
    HMMM, do we have the same friends?  We used to belt out "Oh Canada"
    just
    about anywhere.  Got into the habit at Northeastern when I lived in the 
    athlete's dorm on a floor with a bunch of Canadien Hockey Players -
    we'd
    party and start into the anthem.  I don't htink they knew the french
    part either....
    
    JD

    Karen, Greatful, Grateful, Schmateful...they still sip.
    
    Mark.

    JD, nah your friends probably do it better... Mike's friends don't
    even sing all the lines, they skip the "from far and wide, wee see
    the rise, the true North strong and free..." part or whatever it is 
    and skip to "God keep our land...."  And it's psuedo-French at best,
    although I think that's a plus...

    PENS PENS PENS PENS PENS PENS PENS PENS PENS PENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Pens beat the Debbils 4-0 last night and move on.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Mario had to leave the game w/ back spasms.
    
    Coffey returned, wearing a visor.
    
    Andy

Okay --

Here's a special annoucement concerning The Dinz.

As you all know, the Dinz welched on his bet with Jo about the Broons-Whalers
regular season.  As you all know, we were to call him The WelcherDinz(tm)
forever after in here.

Well, yesterday, the Dinz payed his debt to SportsNoting.  At the Rat
before the game, he was presented with a shirt in honor of his welching, 
and we gave him an opportunity to redeem himself.

The shirt, a Cam Neely Boston Bruins shirt (btw, the picture of Cam on the
shirt had the nose in the center of his face) had some custom lettering
on the back, which read:

		Cam Neely is GOD(tm)

The Dinz put this on in the Rat, and wore it for the ENTIRE 13 inning
Red Sox game....


From here onward, unless he should welch on another bet he makes, we
shall call him, Dinz and NOT WelcherDinz....


You heard it here first,
'Saw

Regarding belting out O Canada just about anywhere...

	The very best, for me, was the night I met my friend Nick,
	in the Hofbrau Haus in Munich.  He's from North Carolina
	originally, and after a bunch of beers, he, I and another
	guy from back home, belted out Dixie.  Then, properly teary
	eyed at missing home, we sand the Star Spangled Banner.

	Then, we got some French guys to sing La Marseillese... too
	funny.  It was almost like that scene from Casablanca....


'Saw

    'Scuse my ignorance, but what or where is the Rat?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Ted.

The Rat is this bodacious club in Kenmore Square, near Fenway Park.

It's a great place (I think so) but perhaps Needle or Lufay, or other
who frequent the place far more than I have could give you all the
ins and out...

Two of the upcoming bands there are called:

		The Queers

		Death in Venice....


I'm going to form a band called 

		Sex Me with a Garden Hose

and hope to play there soon 


many 8^),
'Saw

�   'Scuse my ignorance, but what or where is the Rat?
 
   Kwak tole me that was what REK got for a pet instead of a dog.

   Mike JN   

   Talk about choke jobs... the Blackhawks are pathetic! The best record
   in Hockey all year, then they start sipping through a six foot diameter
   storm sewer!

   Mike JN

    I don't care how good the Black Hawks are.  No one, I repeat, no one
    would have denied the North Stars during this series.  With a few ex-
    ceptions, they played nearly flawless hockey throughout the series.
    
    I've never seen a team go through a metamorphasis like Minnie did
    during this series.  It just goes to show ya that any team that gets
    hot during the playoffs can do some serious damage.
    
    Besides, it's great to see Chelios golfing so early.
    
    Mark.

>    I've never seen a team go through a metamorphasis like Minnie did
>    during this series.  It just goes to show ya that any team that gets
>    hot during the playoffs can do some serious damage.
    
Plus, Chicago went through one the other way.  I saw some stats on 
SPORTS Channel last night that compared the Hawks regular season to
the playoff series...  Atrocious.

Plus, they took lots of stupid penalties.....

'Saw

 So is Mike Keenan to Hockey what Dean Smith is to basketball???

 ;^)

mike

    Mike, I think so.  Lookee what Keenan did in Philly.
    
    BTW, yer awfully quiet about Clemens' fast start :^).
    
    Mark.

    Yea, I like that
    Mike Keenan = Smif
    I never liked that ice-chewin'Blinky. His eyelids are the most
    overworked part of his waste of oxygen body.
    
    BTW 'Saw, I saw (see saw soo) That Cam Neely is God T shirt at a
    beer line in Fenway. So that was Dinz. Cripe, I tried to find you
    guys at the Rat after the game but was almost seeing double at that
    point. I was in the bleachers right next to the CF camera. Sorry I
    missed you all, I had intended to try to find you guys in the bleachers
    but spent most of the time in the beer or beer-passing lines. Next
    time.
    
    MikeL
    

Msrkie, he usuallly starts hot then either slumps or get injuried. Check
that he has an unexplained injury that cause the slump...much better...

Besides it has  become painfully apparent to me that he just a poor
misunderstood soul just like myself. Why he's never done a bad thing
in his life....

mike

    hi milel,
    
    SORRY, if it was a beer line, it wasnt me, /don  wouldnt let
    
    me  get out of those stands all day, i heard him  humming OH canada
    
    throught out the game, guess hes on the  canadian bandwagon
    
    dinz
    

    Dinz, dontcha think it's time to change that "P" name?
    
    lEe

    Dinz,
    
    Maybe it was the at the gate into Fenway. I only had uno brew B4 the game
    so I know I saw ya.
    
    MikeL
    

    Dinz, 
    
    notes>set prof/pers="New York will show up for the gam"
    
    Mark.

    
    Redwings lose to the Blues 3 - 2.  Blues win the series 4 - 3.
    Flames lose to the Oilers 5 - 4 in OT.  Oilers win the series 4 - 3.
    
    Wings showed up for this game not like the last two.  A goal by
    Hull with 21 seconds left in the 2nd period really hurt the wings.
    
    A defenseman was following Hull toward the net.  The announcers said
    that he should have just tackled Hull as opposed to letting him get
    off a shot on goal.
    
    11 players for the Wings had never played in an NHL playoff game before
    this series started.  Go chance to build for the future.
    
    \pjb

    What's the status of Mario?  The Pens can win without him...because the
    refs will help out...THE REFFUREEZ R TO BLAM...but he certainly does
    help.
    
    	--dan'l

    The Oilers came back from a 3-0 deficit lasted night to beat Calgary
    5-4 in overtime.  Without a doubt the best Hockey game I've seen all
    year (intensity - wise).  
    
    Calgary went up 3-0 in the first, as Reichel, Nieuwendyk and Fleury all
    scored in the first 16 minutes.  ANd then the turning point.  The
    Oilers calleed time out.  Esa Tikkanen was seen urging, cajoling and
    yelling at the Oilers during the timeout - he basically said "Follow me
    boys"
    
    So what does Esa do?  He scores about a minute later on a 75 foot slap
    shot that beat Vernon through the pads.  Momentum had shifted. 
    Edmonton's second line was all over the Flames - and gave them a fore
    checking clinic they won't soon forget.  Edmonton took the play to the
    Flames in the second period, as Anderson and Tikkanen scored. 
    Meanwhile, something perturbing to other Stanley Cup hopefuls was
    happening in the Edmonton end.  Grant Fuhr was becoming Grant Fuhr
    again.  HE was simply amazing.  Vernon was also playing well.
    
    In the third, the intensity was amazing, and Edmonton went up 4-3 on
    Semenov's first goal of the playoffs - ending a sequence where Semenov,
    Graves and Gelinas kept the puck around Vernon for what seemed like
    forever.
    
    Calgary then fought back, scoring their 4th goal at the 17:50 mark on a
    goal by Stern.  The third period ended with Fuhr stopping Neiwendyck on
    a great rush.  Earlier in the period, the Oilers killed a penalty where
    the defense and Fuhr were amazing.  THe goalies were superb, as Vernon
    stopped a 2-1 breakaway in the third.
    
    IN overtime, the Flames really took the play to the Oilers early,
    buzzing around Fuhr, but the Edmonton defense stopped most shots before
    reaching Grant.
    
    Finally, at the 6:58 mark, Esa Tikkanen completed the hat trick to cap
    the victory.
    
    A great game.  What hockey is all about.  BOth teams were totally spent
    - Fuhr and Vernon looked like they were going to pass out during the
    hand shake ritual.   
    
    On a side note, Mark Messier was shaken up in overtime - he took a
    Macginnis blast in the knee, plus got simply rocked on a check.  He
    looked totally dazed, confused, and OLD after the game.
    
    
    JD

I'm so bummed!

I was hoping, now that the Flounders were out, that the Flames would
do it.

Looks like another (yawn) Edmonton cup.....

Well, maybe the Penguins will kick some butt....

Oh well.....

'Saw

    Saw,
    
    The Oilers still can be scary.  The other thing they did after the time
    out was protect the goalie.  I mean they simple *leveled* any Flame
    with the gonads to try to get near Fuhr.  IN one play, A flame got in
    Fuhrs face - Beckenboop (or whatever his name is) came over and
    flattened the guy - sent the message.    The Oilers also hit Darren
    Fluery hard and ofthen -  the guy is a gamer (5'7', 150 lbs) - but he
    took a beating.
    
    Tikannen was awesome.  He had an open cut on his lip, blood dripping
    down onto his jersey, rallying the troops.  Charlie Huddy was a stud
    last night.  And old friend Craig MacTavish played a whale of a game.
    
    JD

    Hey, hey, hey!
    
    The Cathmeister's and mines buddy, Esa, gets a hat-trick and scores
    the gwg.  What a hot ticket!!!
    
    RE: Dinz & the Cam Neely is God (tm) shirt:
    
    DAMN!  I go to the game yesterday (BTW, Cammyhoney was there in the
    flesh yesterday; doing some announcing during the 9th inning) and
    missed the dInz paying off his bet with me!  Oh well, at least I
    had a nice day and saw 3 home runs!!!! 8^)  My attendance record is
    still intact!!!  (all wins, 0 losses when I go)
    
    RE: --dan'l
    
    Mario is listed as day-to-day.

    Mario is day to day with the back spasms.  Ulf Samuelsson has a broken
    knuckle but they are trying to fit him with a cast that will allow him
    to shoot (the puck, that is for you out there with sick minds).
    Paul Coffey is wearing a visor and says he will wear it for the rest of
    his career.
    
    JaKe
    

    Damn.  I wish I saw the Oiler/Flames game.
    
    Great recap, JD.  Sounds like a thriller.
    
    Mark.

    	JD, sounds like Edmonton won by playing "goon hockey".  I thought
    you were opposed to that kind of thing.  What gives?  Any takers
    to the bet that the North Stars will beat the Blues?
    
    	       			/Don

    Slasher, the North Stars will beat the Blues.
    
    My predictions:
    
    Boston over Montreal in 7.
    Pitt over Washington in 6.
    Minnesota over St. Louis in 7.
    LA stunning Edmonton in 7.
    
    Mark.

    	North Stars over Blues in 6
    	Kings over Oilers in 6
    	Capitals over Penguins in 5
    	Bruins over Canadiens in 6
    
    			/Don

    /Don,
    
    Nah - it wasn't goon hockey - most of the hits were legit.  The worst
    hit (non-call) was by Doug Gilmour in OT - he grabbed Smith, spun him
    around, and threw him head first into the boards - Smith was crumpled
    on the ice as play continued.  Gilmour was getting even for getting
    leveled by Smith earlier - Gilmour was in the crease (behind Fuhr) -
    Smith hit him into tomorrow - almost knocked him through the net.
    
    Koharski let the boys play (Don Cherry was very happy in between
    periods)_ but he did call a pretty good game.
    
    Some of the saves Fuhr made still have me felling buzzed.  
    
    JD

    Anyone see the end of the Blues-Wings game?  I guess it was offsides
    with 26 seconds to go in the game, but no way you could see it on the
    replay.  (For those who didn't see it, the Wings had an extra attacker
    and the puck went outside the zone, the ref blew his whistle, no one
    heard it, Yzerman put it in and then the call came out...) 
    
    I'm more curious about the play after that.  They line up outside the
    zone, and the Wings shoot it in with 25 seconds go to... they fight for
    it, the Blues clear it, Wings can't hold it in offsides another face
    off.  The clock now says 9 seconds.  No way that took 16 seconds.  So
    they show the replay.  Somehow the scoreboard "misfunctioned" and went
    from 20 to 9 just as the whistle blew.  They wound up putting back at
    19, but that would have been the ultimate slime move ever.  Don't they
    have neutral scoreboard people and goal judges for the playoffs? 
    Anything going to happen from that?  Good thing they time that off the
    ice....
    
    -Walt

    Pens drop first game of series to Caps, 4-2.
    
    JaKe
    

Bruins beat Les Habs 2-1. CAMNEELYISGOD scored both for the Bruins.
Keane scored for the C's. A defensive struggle to say the least.
Very few skirmishes and NO fights! Amazin'


Steve

    With Chicago gone, two remaining teams still concern me as a B's fan.
    One is Edmonton, no need to elaborate why.  The other is the Caps;
    methinks Beaupre could be getting hot at the right time.
    
    As for the other division I look for a Minnesota letdown after their
    big upset; St. Louis in 5.
    
    
    py

    /DON,
    that neeley shirt is in the mail to you. UNWASHED
    
    HTH
    
    Dinz
    

    Bruins in 5
    Caps in 5
    Edm in 7
    Stl in 6
    
    REK

    	Anybody in here take a L size t-shirt and do not mind Dinz's
    cooties all over it?

    JD wears an extra-small.
    
    Mark.

    Mark.
    
    
    
    Perch and Twirl.
    
    
    
    
    JD

    	Not a condom Mark, a t-shirt!

    
    Mail the shirt to Jill.  She can always wear it as a nightshirt,
    assuming DInz didn't pit it out too badly under the arms.
    
    Dickstah
    

    Who is Jill?
    
    Mark.

    
    > Who is Jill?
    
    Didn't she make the bet with the FormerWelcherDinz, or am I getting my
    foxes mixed up again?  Damn, I gotta meet these girls so I can remember
    'em better.
    
    Dickstah
    

    You mean Joann Barrows TWEED::JBARROWS... She made the
    bet with Dinz...........
    
    REK

    
    Yeah, that's the one.

    Dickster,
    
    Jill was the one who went up the hill with Jack under the guise of
    "fetching water.  Jill later charged Jack with rape and now Jack is
    doing 6-10 in federal prison, though he claims innocence.
    
    JaKe
    

    re -.1
    	Wasn't that from the movie Porky's. They called her
    Lassie. aaaoooooooooooooooooooooohhh!
    
    Andy
    
    

    re the last couple:
    
    It was definitely Porky's, saw it on USA Network when they aired
    Porky's and all the sequels back in January.
    
    
    py

    re .557
    
    Played by Kriste Alley, 10 years, and a few pounds and inches ago  ....

    Wrong.....It was the girl from Manaquin (sp).  Can't think of her name.
    
    RTG

    Certainly wasn't Karen Allen.  Hawk, what you been smokin'?
    
    Mark.

    Hawk, Karen Allen was in Animal House.  Anyway, this belongs in the
    Junk Note.
    
    Mark.

Kim catrell was the one in mannequin...


Metz

    Itw as defintely Kristie Alley .... no way that was Kim Cattrell
    ...BTW, I lovd Manniquin ...

�    ...BTW, I love Manniquins ...

	Gee Doc, if you're that hard up I got a couple of cousins I can 
introduce you to.

				/Don

    
    Results from last night Campbell conference games.
    
    Northstars 2  Blues 1
    Kings 4  Oilers 3 OT.  Game winner Luc Robataille
    
    \pjb

    Wow.  Two stunners.
    
    Mark.

    Mark, we don't want to hear about a women that just walked by your
    office, we want to know what you think about last night's hockey games.
    
    REK
    
    :-}

    Garry galley out for two-three games with a hamstring for the B's.
    That'll hurt the D. Either Bob Beers or Kim hammond (?) will take his
    place. That leaves Bourque, Wesley, Don Sweeney, Pederson and Weimer.
    Habs will put plenty of pressure on Bourque (what else is new) and 
    Wesley to tire them out to take advantage of the rest of the D. Should
    be more hitting in this game. Habs get Odelin back on D
    Anyone hear the status of Svoboda ?
    
    Broons in 7
    
    MikeL
    

Not a big deal.

Millbury will just stall and stall and stall, to give Bourque and Wesley
time to rest.

I couldn't believe how long some of the games in the Whalers series were taking.
Normally a 7:35 start is over at around 10:15.  But these games were moving
past 10:35......

'Saw

    RE: -1 
    
    Wow!
    
    I've seen the same p-name, in two different files, by two different
    people in one day.
    
    Dickstah,
    
    I'll forgive ya for calling me "Jill".  It coulda been something
    far worse! 8^)
    
    Joann (with no "e" on the end, Jo for short!)

    Man oh man.
    
    Saturday night, the Oilers beat the Kings 4-3 in double overtime, as
    Petr Klima scored the game winner 4:48 into the second OT session.
    
    What a simply astounding game.  Both goalies, Hrudy and Fuhr, was
    phenominal.  Methinks Bill Ranford will not see action again (Ranford
    lost Game 1, 4-3 in OT)
    
    Esa Tikkanen is doing a fantastic job on the Great One - Wayne probably
    wakes up in the morning and rolls over to give Janet a peck on the
    cheek, and Esa is there instead!
    
    The Oilers are really playing like gutsy champeens.  Everytime they
    look like they are history, they pull themselves back up.  And it seems
    that whenever they need a lift, Fuhr provides.
    
    Luc Robatialle is having a great series for the Kings.
    
    JD
    

Note 7.578              The National Hockey League (NHL)              578 of 578
AKOCOA::PETERSON                                       1 line  22-APR-1991 16:08
                                 -< Buffoons! >-
                                  **************

Mel, are you talking 'bout yourself again?????  8^)

    

    
    Mario had a magnificent game last night.  Awesome head-fake, no-look
    pass to a flying Stevens for the game-winner.  Excellent defense, esp 
    during penalties.  Mario's been suffering from painful and debilitating 
    back spasms, but has evidently felt good for the last two games.  His 
    skating looks to be 100%, his passing is about 80%, and his shot is 
    around 50% of his 1990 form (groan...he got *stopped* on a breakaway...
    by Liut!  I can count the number of times I've seen that on one hand...)
    
    I didn't SEE ALL THE NJ GAMES due to school/work, and in particular
    I missed the final 4-0 victory by the Pens (although it is recorded
    for frequent replay this summer!), but IN THE GAMES I SAW, THE Pens 
    WERE CONSISTENTLY OUTPLAYED BY THE DEVILS.  THEY WON THAT SERIES 
    BY SHEER INDIVidual talent coming to the fore at the right times.
    LUCKY.
    
    But they should beat the Caps.  They historically play them tough.
    And they have as good a record in the Caps Centre as they do in
    the Pittsburgh Civic Arena.
    
    bring on dah broons!
    
    
    Charlie
    

    
    Another double overtime game between the Kings and the Oilers.
    Oilers win this one 4 - 3.  I think all 3 games in this series
    have gone into overtime.
    
    North Stars beat the Blues 5 - 1 at the met last night.  It looks
    like the North Stars are for real.
    
    \pjb