Conference 7.286::macintosh

    Does anyone know whether the Nomai 540 is able to read/write Syquest
    135Mb cartridges?  I'm wondering as Nomai claims that it can operate
    with SQ 270 Mb, and I've read somewhere that SQ 135 Mb are no more than
    single sided SQ 270 Mb, refurbished because of some quality problem on
    the other side...  If it was the case, I'd give my Syquest to my
    parents (bw, this device worked great, so far), buy a Nomai 540 and be
    able to mail data to them :-)
    
    Thanks,
    
    	-- Olivier.
    

This week's Macweek "Mac the Knife" column addresses the Iomega Jaz problem.
Seems there are "an unusual number of failures in the field" being handled
directly by Iomega,  having been escalated from distributors.

Why would anyone want a fixed drive?
Hey, I wouldn't operate my system from a floppy any more, why should I trust
a removable intended for intermittent use as my main drive?

- tom]

    Problems with Iomega, problems of various sorts that I have seen
    continually since I was designing disk controllers in the '70s, have
    long since ensured that I'll find something other than a Jaz when it's
    time to buy a big cartridge drive.
    
    With the SyQuest SyJet now showing up in the mail-order catalogs, and
    giving more storage and better performance for the same money, and with
    my long experience of much goodness from SyQuest, I think I know what
    that next drive will be, unless there's a technology jump before I need
    to buy.
    
    > a removable intended for intermittent use
    
    In general, SyQuest removables are designed and built for intensive
    use.  (Although I haven't been as impressed with the ruggedness of the
    EZflyer 230.)  They are more than serviceable as a main drive.  If I
    had some reason for wanting to have an earlier version of the system
    for something special, it would be on a SyQuest.

    I recently purchased a Zip drive to use for backups.  I've been unable
    to get it to work.  Perhaps someone could make some suggestions.  Here
    is a complete list of my experiences trying to get it to work:

    I have a Macintosh IIsi running Mac OS 7.5.  I purchased the external
    SCSI Zip drive.  It comes with a Zip disk that supposedly dual boots
    on Macintosh and PC's, and then erases the opposing partition after
    you use it to install software on your computer the first time.
    The problem I am experiencing is that I cannot get the Zip drive icon
    to appear on my screen.

    I followed the instructions that came with the drive and then followed 
    the troubleshooting instructions.  There are several places that say 
    "refer to the document that says 'Start Here'".  Nothing came with my
    Zip Drive that says "Start Here".  I'm really not impressed with the 
    quality of the documentation and certainly not interested in paying for
    phone support.

    Regardless, I tried looking at the SCSI bus with Norton Utilities.
    It sees the Zip Drive but says there are "No Partitions on drive".
    This is the same answer I get no matter what I do.  Here are the things
    I've tried.  I have shutdown the Macintosh and unplugged the drive
    between each try.  I always plug in the drive before rebooting the 
    computer.

    I tried both SCSI ID 5 and 6 which are the two options with a switch
    on the back of the Zip drive.  Neither are used by anything on my SCSI
    bus.  Norton Utilities could see the drive at either address.

    I tried using the internal termination on the Zip drive via a switch on
    the back of the drive, an external terminator with no daisy-chained
    devices, and also a second drive set to SCSI ID 2 and a SCSI terminator
    daisy-chained off the back of the Zip drive.  The second hard drive 
    didn't show up on my desktop either.  But Norton Utilities saw it and 
    allowed me to select it saying that it had valid Macintosh partitions.
    I have been using the second drive only as a target for my backups.
    It still wouldn't allow me to select the Zip drive due to the "No 
    Partitions on drive" message.  I figured the backup software I used
    (Fastback) didn't provide the necessary directory files on the drive
    to allow its icon to appear.  Does this make sense?

    I tried starting with the disk in the Zip drive (as per instructions),
    and I tried inserting the disk after everything is started up.  No change.

    Every single attempt yielded the same results.  No icon ever shows up.
    Norton Utilities can see the drive on the SCSI bus, but says there are 
    no valid partitions.  The green light on the Zip drive is on which 
    means it is getting power.  The amber light blinks a couple times when
    the tools disk is inserted.  I have never used this drive or tools disk
    on any other computer.  I just unwrapped it and immediately tried it on
    the Macintosh, so the Macintosh partition on the tools disk should still
    be valid.  It just seems that the tools disk that came with the drive
    does not have a Macintosh partition.

    There did not seem to be anything useful on the floppy disk that came 
    with this for a Macintosh other than electronic versions of what came 
    in hardcopy pamphlets with the drive.  I visited the Iomega web site and
    tried their automated email tech support, neither of which yielded
    anything useful.  I'll be damned if I'll pay for phone support.  I'm 
    about ready to pack the whole thing up and return it.  It just seemed the
    the cheapest option for my backups, whole cost being $160 including
    shipping and all the media I need.

    Any help much appreciated,
    --Dave

>      <<< Note 42.426 by CADSYS::SHEPARD "Overwhelmed by trivialities" >>>
>                   -< Can't get Zip drive to work, help... >-

    For about $100 you could have bought an EZ135...I'm amazed the price
    of the ZIP has not come down.

    Do you have SCSI Probe?  I think it has a 'mount' option, and you
    could put the cartridge in the drive and then try to mount it.

    It sounds like it is not mounting on startup...I would definitely
    make sure the cartridge is in the drive and the drive is powered
    up and 'ready' before powering up the Mac...it should then mount
    the drive and then grab the driver from the cartridge.

    Did the drive come with any softare?  or is it on the cartridge?
    let us know what it turns out to be.
    bob

    >For about $100 you could have bought an EZ135...I'm amazed the price
    >of the ZIP has not come down.

    The Zip drive itself was $119.  I had never heard of the EZ135 prior
    to reading this conference.  I'll keep that in mind in case I end up
    returning the Zip drive.

    >Do you have SCSI Probe?  I think it has a 'mount' option, and you
    >could put the cartridge in the drive and then try to mount it.

    Yes I have SCSI Probe.  It would not let me mount it.  As I recall, it
    didn't even tell me the drive was out there.  Norton utilities actually
    saw the drive, but gave me the "No valid partitions" message.

    >It sounds like it is not mounting on startup...I would definitely
    >make sure the cartridge is in the drive and the drive is powered
    >up and 'ready' before powering up the Mac...it should then mount
    >the drive and then grab the driver from the cartridge.

    I agree this is what should happen.  This is what the directions say
    should happen.  This is not what is happening.

    >Did the drive come with any softare?  or is it on the cartridge?

    The software is on the cartridge.  That's why I'm dead in the water.
    Other ideas?

    Cheers,
    --Dave

Dave,

Go back to the Iomega web page and download the latest version of the Zip Tools
software: <http://www.iomega.com/cgi-bin/mac353.cgi> is the file you need. 
Install this on your Mac.  If all goes well, you should be able to insert the
Zip Tools disk at this point and have it recognize it.

What's likely, though, is that somehow the Zip Tools disk is corrupted.  Maybe
it went through a strong magnetic field.  Maybe someone tried this unit out on
a PC (thereby erasing the Mac side) and then returned it.  Once you have the
driver software, you should be able to reformat it.  If the disk is indeed
defective, you should be able to get a replacement from Iomega directly, or
from the place you bought the drive.

Your other option is to bring in your Zip Tools disk and give it to me.  I'll
duplicate my known-good Zip Tools disk onto it, and give you the latest
software at the same time.

-Doug

    I would agree with Doug's diagnosis.  The symtoms indicate that your
    Zip disk has no recognizable Mac SCSI driver.
    
    If all were as it should have been, you would have seen an Iomega
    install icon on the Mac desktop.  Double-clicking install would have
    placed the Iomega driver in your System Extensions folder to recognize
    Zip disks thereafter.  If you never installed, then there is no driver.
    Doug's solution is best.
    
    An alternative is to use a disk formatting tool to initialize your Zip
    disk.  The tool would partition your disk and install a driver.  However,
    without the Iomega driver extension, you'd have to initialize every Zip
    disk you use.
    
    Do what Doug says. :-)
    
    /Wayne

My Zip drive (although I bought it over a year ago) came with the Zip Tools
cartridge and a floppy disk.  I had to run the Guest program on the floppy
which loads a driver prior to being able to see the Zip cartridge.  Once
you do that, you can get into the cartridge and run the installer which
installs the Iomega init into the extensions folder so that the drive is
always available.

Interesting, things must've changed in their docs...I got Zip dr5ive home and 
had it fully operational in a few minutes...very easy.

John

    The Guest program on the floppy essentially does what I offered as an
    alternative.  I was speaking from the perspective of a Jaz owner.  The
    Jaz Tools Disk has a pre-installed driver.  Does the Zip come with a
    floppy?
    
    /Wayne
    
    P.S.  Included with the Iomega Tools installation from the Jaz Tools
    Disk is the Guest program.  Just as John says, the Guest program enables
    you to use Jaz cartridges without having to keep the Iomega driver
    extension hanging around, in case you're tight on hard disk space or
    encounter conflicts.

    There is no need to use the Zip tools at all if you have FWB Hard Disk
    Toolkit 2.0 or later - HDT can format, read, and write Zip Drives just
    fine.

For that matter, so can Silverlining...

John

    And about once a week or so, HDT or some combination of HDT/Norton
    Filesaver erases a Zip cartridge without me telling it to. Very disconcerting. I think 
    I'm going to go back to the Zip driver.
    
       erik