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Conference ulysse::rdb_vms_competition

Title:DEC Rdb against the World
Moderator:HERON::GODFRIND
Created:Fri Jun 12 1987
Last Modified:Thu Feb 23 1995
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1348
Total number of notes:5438

747.0. "Macintosh SQL services against RdB and IMS" by MUSKIE::JAMES () Wed Sep 26 1990 02:42

    My database questions has to do with access to a large IBM/IMS database
    (100+Gb) running on a 3090 under MVS from a Macintosh PC with a VAX 
    data and file server in the middle.  Assume that the proper network 
    interfaces (ie SNA) exist between us and the 3090 and that we will be 
    running LANworks on the VAX and Mac to support the internet routines 
    between them.
    
    Question is can a Mac user "mine" the IMS database using our SQL within
    LANworks to go over to the VAX, issue a RDB call against the IMS
    database and through some process wind up with the ability to extract
    data from the IMS database.  
    
    Assume that what I want to do is allow the user on the Mac
    to position their cursor on the IMS data file row by row and extract
    the data accordingly under an SQL call and insert it into RdB running
    on a VAX fileserver so I can run query and report tools against it like
    Teamdata, Rally, DTR, etc.  
    
    Can this be done and if so how?
    
    Word has it that Ingres and Sybase will have this capability or do have
    it already.
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name		DateLines
747.1VAXlinkMUNICH::KONOPIKIt's all magic ...Wed Sep 26 1990 10:259
	The only way I'm aware of to copy data from IMS into Rdb/VMS is to
	use VAXlink, but it works in batch mode only. You can select certain
	tables, rows from a menudriven interface on the VAX and send this 
	request to the IBM side where it will processed in batch mode. The 
	result will be send on the users request on the VAX into a Rdb/VMS 
	database.

	Georg
747.2Try Sterling SoftwareTRCA03::MCMULLENKen McMullenWed Sep 26 1990 15:103
    I do not believe that Ingres or Sybase can do this.  Sterling Software
    also sells software that may be able to assist in this, but it will not
    be "real time" and they are not cheap.
747.3Try this...HAN01::DOERINGAndreas Doering, SWAS Hannover @HAOWed Sep 26 1990 16:3110
Another possibility might be a piece of software that provides on-line access
to IMS under CICS from the VAX/VMS. 
This is (just becoming) an asset and is (to my knowledge) written and 
supported by MATHIAS SCHMITZ @HBF, called IMH.

A local customer uses this s/w and is quite happy with it! 

Cheers,
Andreas
747.4sounds like custom to meMAIL::DUNCANGgood 'O' boys make me throw upSat Sep 29 1990 02:0314
    Seems like to me you could/should/would use SQL services to access the
    VAX resident database.  Then use the same program (or a separate
    program) to to access the IMS databases and extract the record(s) and
    place them in the Rdb tables and/or global memory/sections for the
    Mac based application to retrieve.  You didn't mention how you planned
    to enter the IBM host, eg CICS, IMS/DC, or VTAM.  This is important to
    know to determine what API's and LU protocols can be used.  
    
    Further, it seems you would like a VIDA for IMS but this doesn't seem
    to make much sense due to IMS's structure.  Sorry, but this sounds like
    customer code on the VAX to talk to the Mac and the IMS database no
    matter what entry point or IBM protocol you select.
    
    -- gerry
747.5Try a third partyBROKE::THOMASFri Dec 14 1990 20:4844
    We don't have, and don't plan to build, a "VIDA" for IMS product.
    After all, IBM has been struggling for years to build a SQL interface
    to IMS.  If they can't do it, I doubt we would be particularly more
    proficient.  
    
    Ingres claims to have a read-only gateway to IMS.  I'm not sure how
    it works, but they claim to be able to support VAX-based SQL requests
    to IMS.  I don't believe that they have the ability to access IMS 
    from the Macintosh.
    
    Sybase provides a client/server programming environment allowing 
    MAC-based applications to access a Sybase Server.  As far as I know,
    they don't have the ability to access IMS.
    
    As for the IMH product.  I checked with Mathias Schmitz to get some 
    more information.  IMH does not provide a gateway to IMS databases.  
    IMH (IMS Message Handler) is a program-to-program application
    interface, like the APPC/LU6.2 PI, 3270 DSPI or FPI.  IMS APPC 
    communications requires the use of a proprietary communications protocol, 
    called SLU-P.  FPI is our programming interface which supports SLU-P.
    IMH is written using the FLASH programming interface (FPI), providing a 
    transaction monitor environment connecting VAX/VMS applications with 
    IMS/DC applications.  IMH reduces the complexity of VAX to IMS/DC 
    application communications to the simplicity of communications between 
    two VAX/VMS applications on the same system.
    
    Note:  There's a difference between IMS/DB and IMS/DC.  IMS/DB is the
           heirarchical database environment.  IMS/DC is a message-based
           teleprocessing environment, similar to CICS.
    
    SQL/Services could conceivably be used to interface with an IMH
    application, but it would definitely not a trivial task.  Even if you 
    did modify the SQL/Services server in Rdb to allow you to call an IMH
    application, we still don't have any code which would convert SQL 
    commands to IMS DL/I commands.  So I'm not convinced that IMH would be 
    the right answer for this situation.  You might want to investigate 
    third party connectivity products.  Perhaps TechGnosis's SequeLink 
    provides access to IMS from the MAC.  You wouldn't route all commands 
    through the VAX server, but at least you could get the required
    connections.  SequeLink can also be used to access Rdb.
    
    Regards,
    Anne