Conference hips::uk_audioo

    I missed this, care to post details?
    
    Mikef

Yes, I heard it, and recorded it, and spent a couple of happy hours trying to
work out why it sounded so awful.  It was very phasey, things kept wandering
around to left and right, there was no apparent height or depth (I use SL600s
which are very good at this) and every time things got loud or any bass
appeared there was the most awful distortion, of a type I'm not familiar with -
sounded a bit like my tape was overdriven but it wasn't - listening to either
left or right channel on its own sounded fine apart from the varying levels.  I
don't know what summed mono would be like since I haven't got a mono button. 
Oh, it also sounded crap on headphones.

I was beginning to think there was something wrong with my system, but then the
DJ switched back to a track using normal stereo, and all was fine!  I can't
understand why this sort of processing should sound so bad.

I don't have any details on what the actual processing is.  The programme said
it involved varying the level and delay applied to each channel for each track
of a multitrack master tape, and (helpfully) said it was 'more complicated than
that'.  They called it 3D stereo; I wonder if it's this Q-sound thing the hi-fi
magazines have mentioned?

Nick

     Q-Sound is employed on the new Sting Album - The Soul Cages.
     
     The imaging seems quite good, but just the normal, good standard one 
     always finds on his material.  Mind you my amp and speakers in the home 
     are not exactly studio monitor reference standard (unlike most 
     contributors to this conference)!
     
     It woudn't get my money!
     
     Robbie.

    
    I don't think it's Q-sound, as they implied that it had yet to be used
    on a released album, whereas Q-sound has already been used
    commercially.
    
    I thought the video game demo was quite impressive. I wouldn't want to
    listen to anything as overblown as that on *any* music, though.
    
    I could see radio stations using it in jingles, and adverts, in order
    to grab people's attention.
    
    Trevor

	I listened in courtesy of NICAM. The spacial effects were
	very effective but it didn't do much for musicality.

	It will probably score well, as full quadrophonic does, on
	film soundtracks, and for Discos.

	The effect was achieved by changing the phase as well as the
	sound level on the channels. Quite clever really, since	no
	special equipment is needed. I think you'll find certain types
	of recordings will use it, mainly for atmosphere.

	-John

	I have now listened to a recording that I made of the demonstration 
severaL times and am very impressed with the effects but like one or two of the
previous replies I wasn't quite so sure about the musical applications. 

	The system involves applying a different delay to a sound from each
speaker. I found that sounds definitely filled the room extending beyond the
normal speaker positions and even appeared to go around and behind me. However
the listening position seemed pretty critical, exactly midway between the
speakers and the same distance in front for optimal effect. 

	I have always been pretty impressed with 'Hafler' setups that take the
out of phase information and push it out through rear loudspeakers. Stereo
is after all a psycho-acoustic effect and this is just an extension of it. All 
of our reproductions of performances are just that _reproductions_. No setup I 
have ever heard fully recreates a live performance and any kind of studio
trickery that adds to the stereo 'trick' seems valid to me. 

	I think that I have Mark Jeffery to thank for the story of the guy 
sitting down at an orchestral concert and saying 'You know with your eyes shut 
you can just imagine a speaker either side of the stage'

Nigel

And I have Dave Sallitt to thank originally for the saying!

    I listened to Sting's The Soul Cages last night for the first time, and
    the effect(?) claimed do seem to be present. Some of the instruments
    did seem to be located beyond the speakers (eg Northumbrian pipes to
    the right of the right-hand speaker).
    
    All in all I enjoyed the album, but I'm not sure if this Q-sound is
    that important - marginal improvement to a good album, and who cares if
    you don't like the music?

 It may have been just because I was using a fairly cheap tuner, but the sound
didn't seem to come from outside my speakers, and the instuments seemed to be 
wandering around to a certain extent, and always behind/between the speakers, 
they didn't seem to come forward at all.

 I cannot say that I was impressed, but I will reserve judgement till I have
heard it using a better front end.


		 Alan
		~~~~~~

    I heard the demo on a poor quality tape, recorded from a poor quality
    tuner, and played through poor quality speakers.
    
    When sitting in the correct position, there was a very definite effect. 
    It was easy to hear sounds coming from a semi circle which extended
    outside the speakers:
    
                        _S_---_S_      Imagine this as a view from above
                       /         \     with speakers at S and me at M.
                      /           \    Sound could be heard inside the area
                      |_____M_____|    shown.
    
    At times, instruments sounded as though they were at distinct places,
    at other times there was a general sense of the sound being around you.
    
    On most of the material demonstrated, the sound kept panning from left
    to right and back, around the edge of the 'semi-circle' shown above. 
    I'm not sure if all of this panning was intentional, or just a
    byproduct of the technique.
    
    Perhaps this works best with low quality equipment!  The effect was
    very different from the normal imaging that I've come across, which (on
    the systems I've heard) builds a soundstage behind the speakers instead
    of in front.
    
    Mat.
    *:o)

    I listened to this demo in NICAM Stereo from my Panasonic NV-F65B
    through my HiFi and I think it was GREAT BUT, played through my Tuner
    it did not sound so good, Although that maybe due to my Video Recorder
    costing 3 times as much as my tuner.
    
    Grant

	I recorded the demo on metal tape on my Pioneer midi system. I do have 
an external aerial and get very good reception.

	If anybody wants to listen then send me a blank tape and I'll dub a 
copy. There were actually some other recordings played on Radio 1 that weren't 
part of the TW demo. There's probably 10 or 15 minutes in all.

	I recorded the visuals on my Panasonic NVF70B VCR but unfortunately we 
don't yet have NICAM stereo on BBC1/2 in Axford. NICAM on ITV/C4 is 
mega-wondeful q.v all my other ramblings about how wondeful it is.

Nigel

BTW If you look in the TV/Radio Times there are some ITV/C4 programmes that are 
marked as being in stereo. There are actually many more than are indicated e.g. 
Inspector Morse is not stated to be in stereo but definitely is, also Poirot. 
In fact it seems to me that the majority of filmed drama is now broadcast in 
NICAM stereo.

    All broardcasts from BBC1/2 & Thames/LWT/Ch4 from London are in NICAM
    digital Stereo (That includes all Adverts aswell).
    
    Grant

     Methinks this is a little too close to the beginning of the fourth month 
     to believe such a statement, Grant!
     
     Never trust a Marantz owner, that's what I say.
     
     Robert.

re .13,.14

>    All broardcasts from BBC1/2 & Thames/LWT/Ch4 from London are in NICAM
>    digital Stereo (That includes all Adverts aswell).

	I think that the correct statement would be that all broadcasts are in 
NICAM digital sound although not necessarily stereo.

Nigel

    Well the Stereo light on my Panasonic NV-F65B is on all the time.
    
    Grant

re .16

>    Well the Stereo light on my Panasonic NV-F65B is on all the time.

This light shows when it's receiving a NICAM encoded transmission. It may well 
be in mono not stereo i.e. the same signal is coming out of both left & right 
speakers. Even when it is in mono the sound quality in terms of frequency & 
dynamic range etc. is far superior to the normal FM sound.

Nigel

 That is what I thought, ie. everything is transmitted in both NICAM and 
ordinary, but only a limited number of things are recorded in NICAM (or even any
other form of stereo) 

		 Alan
		~~~~~~

	The TW demo was apparently of the new Roland RSS sound processor
although it wasn't advertised as such. I've no idea of the cost but would guess 
that it will be beyond the reach of home recordists although not pro studios.

	As it's a Roland box available of the shelf to do this I suspect that 
we'll be hearing a lot more of this in the future.

Nigel

    This might be getting of the subject somewhat, but if there is
    sufficient interest I can enter some info on how 4 channel audio is
    encoded down to 2 for cinema soundtracks, what it means to a TV
    broadcast environment etc etc.
    
    Referring to an earlier comment, if the Soul Cages is listened to off
    of CD then the apparent 3D placement will seem much more precise than
    if off Cassette, for the simple reason of much better phase coherence;
    the crux of much of the quality of 3D argument.
    
    On an artistic note, for wizzy 3D effects I personally think less is
    more!
    
    Russell.
    

 I am interested also.



		 Alan
		~~~~~~

    I'm taking some people from HHL over to Dolby Labs soon to meet some of
    my ex-colleagues from the studio (film & music) division, and to let
    them see the Dolby A/SR/HX Pro demos. While I'm there I'll pick up some
    of their excellent glossies (no bull***t in these ones!) and mail them
    to you. That way I avoid hours of typing badly :-)
    
    Send me your mailstop, and I'll drop this stuff in the post ina few
    weeks time.
    
    Russell.