Conference hips::uk_audioo

    Yes, I know the Beeb have dropped NICAM for now, not for another
    standard but because Checkland said if he was going for it, it would
    have to be nationwide, not just the London area where tests have
    been going on for some time. This was a ploy to get more money from
    HMG, not an admission of desire to upgrade broadcasting in the UK
    at large - otherwise why have Radio 1 on FM only in the London area?
    Radio 1/FM would be much cheaper to go nationwide with, although
    that particular moan of mine is out of date as of tomorrow.
    
    But apparently the IBA is very interested in NICAM and it's easier
    for them to raise the brass than the Beeb. Also many satellite
    broadcasts now have sound in stereo using NICAM. And it's very simple
    to include the Dolby Surround soundtrack from movies onto video
    in NICAM decodable format, in fact I *think* satellite broadcasters
    include it along with a "normal" soundtrack. With a NICAM-ready
    video/TV, a Dolby decoder and appropriate amplifier and speakers,
    "putting on the video" could take on a whole new meaning....
    
    dave
    
    

    Help!
    
    I am (or was) just about to rent a Nicam video. Are the BBC abandoning
    Nicam or is the story that was in the Hi-Fi mags a few months back
    about it being put on ice for a year due to the Government not putting
    up the licence fee to what the BBC wanted.
    
    Mike.

    This is unclear. Try asking the Beeb and let us know their response...

    I rang BBC engineering and they said that they were still continuing
    with Nicam and still performing test transmissions from the Crystal
    Palace transmitter. The guy also said that Nicam would be the system
    that the ITV companies would adopt. However he was not too forthcoming
    about whether they would transmit things such as feature films which
    already have stereo soundtracks in stereo. Does anyone know whether
    they do so at the minute or do they just run music as a soundtrack
    to the moving pictures?
    
    Mike.

    Would some kind soul please enter some technical details on Nicam?
    Needless to say, it doesn't get much coverage in the US press.
    
    Australia has adopted a TV stereo standard that is probably some
    variation of Nicam.
    
    I don't think any of the European satellite services use the Nicam
    format. I will check my most recent list of the services (at home)
    and confirm or correct this.
    
    Some use one of the Wegner stereo formats, which are all based on
    discrete carriers for L & R along with some form of companding.
    
    FWIW, most US stations running stereo simply propagate the optical
    sound tracks from the movie print. Between the limitations of he
    original print and the fact that the sound chain in many TV stations is
    little more than an afterthought, the stereo is often not as good as it
    should be. 
    
    gary

    The following satellite services are listed as using Wegener stereo:
    
    MTV Europe, Premiere/Children's Channel, Lifestyle/Screensport,
    Sky Channel, Super CHannel
    
    Filmnet is listed as using the Panda system, another Wegener format.
    
    Quite a number of audio only services use the Wegener scheme as
    well.
    
    gary

    I finally got a Nicam video from Radio Rentals (no jokes please)
    and have been playing about with for a few days. I found so far
    that all BBC1 and BBC2 programmes are broadcast in Nicam but in
    mono except for the odd programme and tests which are run during the
    day when music is played over the pictures. Example today was the
    Labour party conference with some synth type musak. The 'best'
    discovery so far was the Lionel Ritchie concert shown last night which
    was broadcast with a stereo soundtrack. I can live without Lionel but
    it has made me look forward to Sunday night because 'The Last Waltz'
    with the Band is on BBC2. I am hoping for a stereo soundtrack for that one!
                                                   
    Mike O'

    The little red light in the top right hand corner of my video tells
    me that the ITV channels are now being broadcast in stereo. However
    they are currently using background muzak over the pictures. Mind
    you I was watching 'Big World Cafe' and it took me 15 minutes to
    realise this!
    
    Mike O'

    Does anyone know if Nicam decoders are available as a separate box, and
    if so how much such a beast would cost?

    Also, .8, was that ITV London broadcasting in stereo, or one of the
    locals (I can recieve both London and TVS).

    -Les.

    .9
    
    It was ITV London - Thames/LWT region.
    
    Mike O'

    Anyone seen a NICAM decoder sold seperately?
    
    - Andy ��� Leslie
    

Maplin are doing an article on NICAM and are/have produced a kit. I have no
other details as yet but I can give you their phone number & address, if
needed, from home, later.

John

    There is a company who advertise a NICAM TV tuner in HFN/RR mag.
    I'll look it out and post the details.
    
    Re the MAPLIN decoder .. I suspect it will need to be fed with a
    signal from somewhere in the depths of your existing TV or Video
    - could be tricky. We will have to wait till the next issue or
    Electronics to see!
    
    Dave

    >                  <<< Note 37.13 by SEDOAS::KORMAN >>>
>                           -< Yes, I'll look it up >-
>
>    There is a company who advertise a NICAM TV tuner in HFN/RR mag.
>    I'll look it out and post the details.
    
    thanks!
    
    - Andy ��� Leslie
    

    As promised, address for NICAMTV tuner:
    
    	Motion Electronics, 622 Tonbridge Road, Wateringbury, Maidstone,
    Kent ME18 5 PU
    
    Tel: 0622 812814.
    
    Perhaps you would post brief details when you get them?
    
    Rgds, Dave
    

    Yassah! I'll phone 'em tomorrow (Monday)

    �175, audio only. Requires seperate aerial feed and is used to connect
    either up to a video's "simulcast" port or direct to speakers. 7-8
    weeks delivery.
    
    The guy was most helpful and has promised me a leaflet (which I'll
    xerox for anyone who mails me)
    
    - Andy ��� Leslie
      VMS CSSE Newbury

    	My ancient V2000 video recorder passed away recently. Setting
    out to buy a replacement is proving to be a difficult business since
    there are now so many new features to consider. I bought a mag and
    read up on what I could find particularly with regard to Nicam Stereo.
    
    Fortunately the mag that came to hand, what video, happened to be
    doing an issue with lots of Nicam stuff in it so here's some info
    for you.
    
    By the end of 1990 pretty well the whole of britain will have had
    its transmitters modified for stereo and then stereo broadcasts
    can be expected to pick up markedly. 
    
    You can get a basic VCR for a little over �200 and this would be
    quite acceptable for many purposes. Adding more money up into the
    �300 region gets lots of extra features.
    
    At �400 there are models that handle Nicam but only record it in
    its analogue form - apparetnly not a very good idea or so they say.
                                         
    �500 is necessary to get a true Nicam, digitally recording, VCR.
    These models range up to �650 or so according to features etc. Most
    record long play too giving 8hr tapes.
    
    If you want your pictures improved then maybe Super VHS is the thing
    though it doesn't appear to make any difference to the audio aspects.
    These machines come at around the round �1000 though!.
    
    One model that might be of particular interest to audio enthusiasts
    is an Akai model that comes complete with Dolby surround sound decoder
    and two built in amplifiers. This allows it to be used with a mono
    ie. non Nicam television or if you've got the stereo TV in full
    4 speaker mode. I wonder how many transmissions will feature this
    though, only major films I speculate.
    
    As can be seen there's a lot of money at stake here. It seems to
    me that not to get Nicam at this time would be a mistake. I'm not
    in the habit of buying this sort of thing often ie. once in 10years
    so like to get it right so to speak. Has anyone out there
    opinions/experience on these matters particularly -
    
    1. How good is Nicam, is it worth the money?.
    
    2. How good is S-VHS, is it worth the money?.
    
    3. How good is Dolby surround sound?.
    
    4. How many transmissions are currently sent out in Nicam.
    
    -John
    
    PS. I'm also getting a new box, and these too are more expensive
    with the stereo add-ons.

    	Oh forgot, I don't know of a TV/Video technical conference to
    try. Is there one?.
    
    -John

	Last year I also had to change my video when my old V2000 died. I 
decided then that anything other than a Hi-Fi video was a mistake. I was 
undecided about Nicam as it seemed that it was some years in the future. The 
model I eventually bought (Panasonic NV70B) had Nicam by default though.

	There are at present no Nicam broadcasts where I live near Basingstoke. 
TVS will be transmitting from Southampton in September, the BBC some years in 
the future. Until my TV aerial got blown down in the last Great Storm I could 
pick up Nicam broadcasts from London. On ITV the picture was crap but the 
stereo sound was brilliant especially on movies, on BBC the sound was poor but 
the picture great! Of course if I lived in the right area I would expect both 
picture and sound to be good. The BBC just seem to be doing test transmissions 
but most ITV programmes seem to be in stereo or at least made the little red 
light on my video come on. I'm not sure about Channel 4/BBC2.

	The specs for Nicam are technically very, very good. At best the sound 
quality is equivalent to CD (apologies to vinyl fanatics). One of the 
advantages of the TV companies going digital with Nicam is that they have had 
to upgrade the transmission chain all the way from the microphones to the 
transmitters.

	I wasn't aware that you could buy non Hi-Fi Nicam videos, this sounds
like a dreadful idea. The Hi-Fi soundtrack even on ordinary timeshifting videos
is far better than the normal linear VHS sound. Pre-recorded tapes especially
music videos have absolutely fantastic sound. I am certainly looking forward to
Nicam but Hi-Fi would be a first priority. 

Nigel

Hi,.

I am about 66% through building the Maplin Nicam kit - I have built the tuner
and decoder, and am waiting for the control bits and hardware. The point is, 
I have enough of it to be able to use it (spread out on the lounge floor!)

I watched/listened to "THE WALL" from Berlin last week - terrific sound!

Both BBC and ITV transmit sound o NICAM in the London region all the time!
The ITV service is official, and some programmes ares advertised in TVT as being
in "Digital Stereo Sound". However, I have found that many programmes not so
andvertised are also in stereo. Aunty Beeb does not have an official service, 
but so far every film and music program I have looked at has been in stereo!

Incidentally, the stereo image from Nicam seems uncanny - maybe it's due to some
film racks being Dolby Surround encoded, even tho' I don't have a decoder.

TTFN,

Dave

    re: .18	

    John,

    I think I went through a similar thought process when I decided to replace
    a rented portable TV and VCR last year. Too many options and significant
    cost if you make a poor choice - I read a few magazines until I was totally
    confused and then just thought about it for a few months. It's like buying
    a computer...

    There is a video conference in the US at PAGODA::VIDEO it discusses TVs,
    VCRs and Camcorders. Few models seem to be common to both US and European
    markets, but it is interesting for discussion of S-VHS, surround sound etc.

    The AKAI VCR you describe is the A-77 and having had one for 7 months or so
    I would recommend it. Just to clarify, it has one amplifier that can be
    switched (from the rear of the machine) to drive the front two speakers (if
    you just want stereo) or to drive the rear two speakers (for surround
    mode). In the latter case, you need a seperate amplifier to drive the front
    two. There is a variable line out from the VCR for these front channels, so
    that the remote control can balance all four speakers L-R and Front-Rear.

    So, to answer -

>    3. How good is Dolby surround sound?.
    
    Very good indeed! I have only tried it with pre-recorded tapes, as I am
    waiting for the TVS transmitter to start its NICAM service. The results
    vary from good to astounding. Nearly all recent (up to say 5 years ago)
    video film releases are Dolby surround encoded even if they don't say so on
    the box. It certainly isn't confined to the 'blockbusters'. It is hard to
    describe the difference - it just sounds much more realistic. To quantify
    it though, I would have to say that the difference between the normal VHS
    mono audio track and the Hi-Fi stereo is a MUCH greater leap. To appreciate
    either stereo or surround I would recommend using a seperate amp and
    speakers sited a few feet on either side of the TV. Stereo TVs are a poor
    compromise (and expensive). Just using the AKAI with the front speakers
    is very effective - and has the advantage over other VCRs of not requiring
    additional amplification or connections. 

    There is a development of this called PRO-LOGIC Dolby, which is supposedly
    much better, but requires at least an additional centre-front speaker and
    is only available in expensive A/V amplifiers or in seperate decoders
    (requiring 3 or more additional amps and speakers. You'd need a big budget
    and living room to make this worthwhile. The advantage of the AKAI is that
    it keeps the number of wires and boxes cluttering up the living room to
    manageable proportions. In fact the rear speakers can be very small, and
    the effect is just as good.

    It is significant to note that with NICAM stereo you will get either
    Dolby or Pro-Logic surround sound, provided the film was recorded using
    them - it would be difficult for them to be removed for TV
    transmission. 
    
    >2. How good is S-VHS, is it worth the money?.

    My personal view is that unless you want to edit video or have a
    significant need for the taping of broadcast material to be higher than VHS
    quality then it is not worth the money. Availability of pre-recorded
    material is scarce and expensive and looks likely to remain so. Given the
    level of take up of S-VHS in the US and Europe I don't see it being the
    successor to VHS - more an alternative suited to specific applications.
    However, an S-VHS connector on a TV may be a good idea, as along with SCART
    it appears to be becoming popular as a high-quality connector for other
    equipment. 

        - Scott 
    

	I just noticed that the litle red NICAM stereo light was on all evening 
on Channel 4 last night.

	Very impressive for 'A TV Dante' certainly adding to the psychedelic
kaleidoscope of images. Also fairly impressive with 'Dont Quote Me' a
Celeb-filled game show (Barry Cryer in my left speaker, Sue Arnold in the right
and the audience all over the place). This was excellent crisp, hiss free
sound. 

	I don't know whether this was a test transmission or whether this is 
now permanent. There was no trace of stereo on normal ITV and that is from the 
same transmitter.

Nigel

BTW	It's a shame that they didn't do it last week before I recorded 'The 
Wall' in glorious living mono.

What transmitter are you receiving from?

Hannington is the nearest to Basingstoke and its not supposed to broadcast
NICAM until 1993!

-Mike-

re .24

>What transmitter are you receiving from?
>
>Hannington is the nearest to Basingstoke and its not supposed to broadcast
>NICAM until 1993!

I live about 7 miles south of Basingstoke and my aerial is pointed south so I 
think that I'm receiving from Southampton. Where I live is in a poor reception
area and I have to use an aerial amplifier to get any sort of picture at all. 
Most of the time it is very good but we do have occasional bad evenings when 
French TV overlays our domestic channels.

Channel 4 was in stereo again last night so maybe it's a permanent feature now.

Nigel

BTW Where is Hannington?

Hannington is easily seen from the 339 Basingstoke to Newbury road.

The nearest village is Kinsclere, if you know that area, and the transmitter
is on top of White Hill, by far the highest point in the area. Adjacent
to White Hill is Watership Down which I'm sure you've heard of, even if you 
don't know where it was.

I leave in Chineham, just off the A33 on the Reading side of Basingstoke, and
it was an obvious choice to pick up the signal from Hannington, though now I'm
wondering. Some people have a second aerial for the London transmitter at
Crystal Palace. The signal is not brilliant but varies a lot from place to place

-Mike- (who would love to see the NICAM light come on on his VCR)

    Well I've got one. Had some demos of various models. The surround
    sound on the Akai is interesting and at it's best for sound effects
    on feature films, rather than for music.
    
    However I got a Panasonic NVF-65B, chosen because it does what I
    want and has a 4 head system which I observed gives noticeably
    better pictures. All in all it works very well. I get Nicam
    indicators on the London staions and also perhaps C4 on southern.
    
    I'm not terribly sure whats coming down though because it's not
    actually hooked up to a stereo output when connected to the TV.
    
    Most times I've been experimenting with it's alternate use as a
    super Hi-Fi tape recorder. You can record at slow speed (8 Hrs)
    for audio only with this model. Recording straight off the CD
    player shows very little degradation of sound quality at all.
    Indeed in trying to discover by listening tests what the difference
    is all I've really found is how much 'noise' there is even on
    digitally recorded CDs. So if anyone fancies lending me their
    expensively obtained CD's I'd be happy to give em a spin, just
    by way of testing you understand!.
    
    A pretty smart piece of equipment. These things will be catching
    on pretty quickly I reckon.
   
    -John

    Re -1
    
    I also have just got a Panasonic NVF-65B and must agree with you.
    Sound quality is superb from either Nicam broadcasted tv progs or Hi-Fi
    stereo videos. I've also recorded a few of my CD's onto video-cassettes
    and have found the sound quality to be equal to that of my CD player.
    I have the video connected to my stereo system and watched "THE
    PREDATOR" last night ; the sound was AWESOME !!!!!!
    If anyone is thinking of buying a new VCR and has a budget of �500 then
    I would advise you check this one out.
    
                                                   Geo.
    							

	I noticed that the little red NICAM light is now on for ITV as well as 
channel 4. So TVS seems to have converted a month early. 

	As I mentioned previously I think that I'm receiving from Southampton
although there is a small local transmitter at Alton that I might be receiving
from. 

	There are quite a lot of programmes (& the advertisments) that are not 
transmitted in stereo but because of the vastly superior frequency response etc 
of NICAM the sound even in mono is much much better than previously.

Nigel

        Living in Thatcham (3 miles east of Newbury) I have my ariel 
        pointed at Hannington. As has been mentioned recently, Hannington 
        is not due for NICAM until some distant point in the future.
        
        I've just bought a new TV (Panasonic TX24A1) and would really 
        like to get the NICAM light on!
        
        Before I invest in a new ariel and ariel amplifiers (not to 
        mention clambouring onto the roof), has anyone else living in the 
        area tried pointing at Southampton or London with success?
        
        cheers
        alf

    I phoned BBC engineering today to try to find out about a timescale for
    national NICAM-isation, and was told 'Autumn 1991'.  Oh well...
    
    atp

    According to ORACLE P 297, Hannington is due for NICAM in 1991.
    
    P 698 of CEEFAX (during the daytime) says that BBC will be beginning
    official NICAM broadcasts from Autumn of 1991.  They list a set
    of transmitters which look like the same ones as are already on
    line with ITV  (eg Mendip, Crystal Palace...)
    
    nick

    TVS from Hannington this morning was transmitting a NICAM signal.
    
    not that I watch Breakfast TV of course.

	The BBC seems to be making a big song & dance about climbing  belatedly 
onto the NICAM bandwagon.

	Unfortunately all their autumn series 'broadcast in stereo where 
available' doesn't seem to include the Southampton transmitter which has been 
broadcasting ITV & Channel 4 in NICAM for over a year.

	Does anyone know when this is supposed to happen?

Nigel