T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
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4535.1 | | tennis.ivo.dec.com::KAM | Kam WWSE 714/261.4133 DTN/535.4133 IVO | Tue Apr 09 1996 22:13 | 4 |
| Was Palmer shrewd enough to negotiate a royality for our technologies?
If so, then the total migration to Microsoft products benefits Digital.
If not, then it's only a matter of time before we migrate our install
base to Microsoft.
|
4535.2 | Hmmmm... | CHEFS::RICKETTSK | Rebelwithoutapause | Wed Apr 10 1996 07:05 | 24 |
| >> "Make your numbers or I'm sure your successor will"
So what numbers is Bernhard Auer's successor making then? And will
*his* successor do any better if the numbers (or the underlying
strategy, if there is one) are unrealistic?
It is all very well saying things like that, and good to see that
even members of the SLT pay for mistakes. However, implemented wrongly
that approach will force short-term decision-making that will undermine
long-term success, or even survival. If your job depends upon making
your numbers for the current quarter, and the only way you can do that
is to cut costs by getting rid of people that you will need to support
the continuing operation, what do you do? Almost any idiot can make
numbers in the short term by 'mining' the installed base without regard
for customer satisfaction, closing R&D and generally minimising the
current costs. But those current costs are the seed corn for future
revenue. If you eat all the seed corn now, you may not be hungry for a
while longer; but you'll be starving come next harvest time.
Maybe BP's strategy is correct; I don't know. But I don't feel any
happier about his grasp of what is actually going on at the lower
levels in this corporation after reading this.
Ken
|
4535.3 | You CAN Make a Difference | NCMAIL::YANUSC | | Wed Apr 10 1996 09:12 | 25 |
| RE: .2
Ken, Your points are very valid, and likely reflect what many in the
field fear, and more than likely understand, is happening day in and
day out at Digital. The only point I would like to make is that Bob
Palmer is somehow out of touch with what is happening at the lower
levels of the company. With his work schedule, which is probably
frenetic, his understanding of what is happening in the trenches is
only as good as what is filtered through management and his staff.
Therein may lie the problem, if those layers filter out anything but
the positives, which many suspect has been happening for a long time.
If anyone feels that something of importance to the company's survival
needs to be raised to Bob's level (and doesn't want their message to
be filtered as above), raise it yourself. Don't wait for others to do
it for us. My understanding is that Bob makes use of the e-mail
systems and other tools available to all of us. I personally have been
responded to on previous messages, and have been pleased with the
responses. Sure, the replies were likely penned by a subordinate, but
also likely reflected Bob's personal views.
The bottom line is that many employees agree with your points. But now
let's do something about the situation.
Chuck
|
4535.4 | | MKTCRV::KMANNERINGS | | Wed Apr 10 1996 13:26 | 40 |
| >If anyone feels that something of importance to the company's survival
>needs to be raised to Bob's level (and doesn't want their message
>tobe filtered as above), raise it yourself.
The point about the top management not knowing what is going on in the
trenches is an old one, indeed, it comes from the first world war.
The thing is, just sending an e-mail to Bob is not the whole solution.
The important thing is to correct what is going wrong and to
communicate the feeling within the organisation that those at the top
are concerned to stop things going wrong at the bottom and take
initiatives themselves to ensure that this is the case.
Let me give an example. One day I was standing waiting for a high
speed train at Frankfurt railway station. It was 5 minutes late and the
whole country was talking about how the new high-speed trains were
late. Suddenly a friend who was with me tapped me on the arm and said,
"look at that, there is the chief of the entire German Railway company
talking to the driver. He wants to know exactly why it is late, and you
can be sure he won't be asking his executives what the problem is,
he'll be telling them."
From the little bit of the company I can see it seems like there are
many things going on which are a hugh improvement on say 5 years ago,
but I wonder if there is that attention to detail at the bottom which
is so crucial, and which has such an effect on employees. Imagine what
the train driver felt like and what he told his pals. There have been
many examples raised in this conference, but I would pick just one.
Digital lives from selling. Top salesmen are like diamonds. You look
after them, treasure them, the top performers bring in the bucks year
after year, so whatever else you do, look after them. So why was a top
salesman like the Greyhawk let go, just a few months after being
selected and rewarded as a top performer?
Just firing a VP down the line who doesn't make his numbers is not the
answer. We have to have the mindset that we get it right as a team all
the time, whatever it takes.
Then we can all have a payrise, please, that'll do nicely...
Kevin
|
4535.5 | We have to play the game | STOWOA::tavo.ogo.dec.com::ODIAZ | Octavio Diaz | Wed Apr 10 1996 18:21 | 17 |
|
I agree that Palmer and all senior management are putting more focus on the short
term than the long term, but unfortunately if they don't do that there may be no
long term to worry about.
We are in many ways at the mercy of external influences, be it investors, the stock
market, financial institutions, etc. and in Digital's situation, still
somewhat fragile and trying to establish ourselves again as a viable system vendor,
if we don't show short term results, our long terms prospects don't look very good
in their eyes.
Unless you have a commanding position in the market and tons of cash, you kind of
have to play their game.
|
4535.6 | .5 formatted for 80 columns | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Wed Apr 10 1996 21:42 | 20 |
| <<< HUMANE::DISK$SCSI:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DIGITAL.NOTE;1 >>>
-< The Digital way of working >-
================================================================================
Note 4535.5 Digital's New Attitude Puts It Back In Game 5 of 5
STOWOA::tavo.ogo.dec.com::ODIAZ "Octavio Diaz" 17 lines 10-APR-1996 17:21
-< We have to play the game >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree that Palmer and all senior management are putting more focus on the
short term than the long term, but unfortunately if they don't do that there
may be no long term to worry about.
We are in many ways at the mercy of external influences, be it investors, the
stock market, financial institutions, etc. and in Digital's situation, still
somewhat fragile and trying to establish ourselves again as a viable system
vendor, if we don't show short term results, our long terms prospects don't
look very good in their eyes.
Unless you have a commanding position in the market and tons of cash, you kind
of have to play their game.
|
4535.7 | These lastest announcements will make it hard to hit the TeamLinks quotas. | XANADU::16.29.16.85::STJEAN | Bob St.Jean | Thu Apr 11 1996 01:15 | 39 |
| I hope that Mr. Palmer doesn't go and start firing account teams
for not making their TeamLinks, ALL-IN-1 and MailWorks quotas.
Remember that these are often tied into Alpha and PC sales. It
seems that every 3 to 6 months Digital's management pulls off
some kind of stunt that freaks out the existing customers or potential
customers. At best it only causes delays in closing sales. At
worst it causes us to lose the sale altogether.
I'm referring to the ill conceived or poorly executed mail strategy
announcements that cause great concern to our customers. It makes
the sales, product management and engineers involved with TeamLinks
and related products go into damage control mode. First it was
with the original MS/DEC alliance and the statements about DEC
implementing Exchange in house. We managed to deal with that. Then
it happened again with the cancellation of the NT OfficeServer,
something that was announced and was generating great interest from
our customers.
Now we have to contend with the lastest announcement in the media
that Digital is deploying Exchange to 50,000 desktops (or is the
40,000 figure the one to believe). There was no mention of Digital's
own groupware systems (TeamLinks, ALL-IN-1, MailWorks and OfficeServer),
if they will still exist within our company, what level of investment,
etc... This last announcement will also confuse the UNIX and OpenVMS
base, since these platforms were not mentioned at all.
The customers and account teams are very concerned. Eventually our
damage control will not work anymore. Who will buy a mail system
from Digital if we don't even use it widely within our company? What
other company in the email business uses its competitor's mail system
inhouse, brags about it, and expects to get away with it? Mail
solutions are complex to sell, and customers look for a company's
commitment. All the talk in the world will not help, since Digital
cannot seem to get its story straight.
Too bad...
Bob
|
4535.8 | We have to play the game well to win | MKTCRV::KMANNERINGS | | Thu Apr 11 1996 07:13 | 13 |
| re .6
>We are in many ways at the mercy of external influences
This is no excuse for poor quality. Sure we have been given a tough
time by the market, but so have others. Some have gone bust and some
will go bust in the future. If the market gets bad, then you have to
retreat and conserve resources so you are in shape to go forward again
when the tide changes. Doing that with quality is the challenge,
probably more of a challenge than expanding and going forward. Just
having the resolve to take tough decisions is not enough.
Kevin
|
4535.9 | Why we don't get the results. | ACISS1::ROCUSH | | Tue Apr 16 1996 12:57 | 14 |
| The comment about having a successful sales force and retaining
successful reps raises a very fundamental question about how we
organize the sales force. I am presntly in one of the most competitive
markets, and making some progress in selling Alpha products. I am no
where satisfied with the results so far. There may be a few factors
mitigating agains tthe wild success we should be having. In the past
18 months I have had 6 different managers, none of which had experience
in the market or product. I have also had the geography, accounts and
measument system changed three times in the last 18 months. So judging
success is a lot more than just looking at the numbers.
BTW, I knew Greyhawk quite well and reality is much different than
perception.
|
4535.10 | | MAIL2::RICCIARDI | Be a graceful Parvenu... | Tue Apr 16 1996 13:31 | 1 |
| What reality is that?
|
4535.11 | Your answer | ACISS1::ROCUSH | | Tue Apr 16 1996 20:08 | 4 |
| .10
The reality of whether someone is a successful rep or not.
|
4535.12 | Perceptions can differ | CHEFS::RICKETTSK | Rebelwithoutapause | Wed Apr 17 1996 06:39 | 9 |
| Re. .9, .11
Are you saying that he was perceived (or perceived himself) to be a
successful rep., but wasn't (IYHO)? Or that he was (again IYHO) successful,
but not seen as such by some others (management? peers?)? The former case
seems to me to be implied by your remark in .9. If I am misinterpreting
you, please correct me.
Ken
|
4535.13 | Hope this helps. | ACISS1::ROCUSH | | Wed Apr 17 1996 10:41 | 6 |
| .12
Having worked very close with him I have a unique ability to evaluate
performance. As my mother used to say, "If you can't say anything nice
about someone say nothing."
|
4535.14 | | MAIL2::RICCIARDI | Be a graceful Parvenu... | Wed Apr 17 1996 12:09 | 1 |
| Hmmm. I'm not surprised.
|
4535.15 | lets keep to the point ... | ESSC::KMANNERINGS | | Wed Apr 17 1996 12:55 | 36 |
| Re the last few:
I was basing my comment on the following in the Goodbye Greyhawk note
> So Digital is now laying off one of its most successful
> salesmen? One of the select few who as recently as October
> was sent to the exclusive DECathlon retreat in Bali as a
> reward for great work and inspiration for more?
That makes it clear that the company thought he was a top notcher,
whatever anyone else thinks, and my discussion is with the policy of
the company not looking after good salesmen. So the question of whether
Greyhawk was or was not top rep is irrelevant, and not really fair, as
he cannot reply. The company thought he was good, but the company let
him go, that is my point.
My general point is that it is very important to look after the sales
force carefully. If you DO want to change things radically, then you
should have the alternative up and running before you cut things.
Otherwise your quarterly results will suffer and you get into a tailspin.
Also, I think there is something like Esprit de Corps in all
organisations which is an intangible but precious asset. When things
happen which are percieved as nonsense by some of the company, it is
important to deal with those perceptions or you damage the
organisation.
So can we concentrate on the questions of quality and performance
raised here, so we can grow the company again, keep everyone on board,
and get some payrises together :-)
There was plenty of opportunity to knock the Greyhawk when he was
around ...
Kevin
|
4535.16 | DECathalon not always a good indication | WHOS01::ELKIND | Steve Elkind, Digital Consulting @WHO | Wed Apr 17 1996 22:16 | 14 |
| I didn't know the Greyhawk, this is not in reference to HIS abilities
as a sales rep.
Although many of those who go to DECathalon are successful for both
themselves and the company, you can't automatically assume it's so.
And I'm sure their managers know which is which (although some may not
care, since they are measured the same way).
While in Sales Support I saw sales reps blow their numbers away by
taking actions that helped them exceed their numbers or which resulted
in per-unit-sold bonuses, but which were bad for Digital on a net
revenue basis. They were considered successful, since they would get
to DEC 100 or DECathalon - but they sure didn't help the company's
bottom line.
|
4535.17 | | ACISS1::ROCUSH | | Wed Apr 17 1996 22:55 | 7 |
| DECathalon is not necessarily an indicator of successful performance.
I do not think that everything we have done so far has been correct,
but we are headed in the right direction. We will need to make
adjustments along the way, but I would rather see us heading the right
way.
|
4535.18 | | ESSC::KMANNERINGS | | Thu Apr 18 1996 05:34 | 16 |
| > DECathalon is not necessarily an indicator of successful performance.
okay, that may be true but it IS an indication that the company think
that the winners are good sales reps, I mean, they are not deliberately
rewarding dodos are they? And IF the company think xyz is a good
sales rep, then they should treasure him or her, and the same goes for
all good employees. That should be part of the new attitude. Of course
it is a good idea if the sales effort is organised on a sane,
team-based, customer oriented way and not for short term gain at the
cost of damage to intangible assets.
For those who say we still have a certain amount of hard things to do
because of mistakes made in the past I would say, the way we do those
things will determine how we go forward in the right direction.
Kevin
|
4535.19 | | PLAYER::BROWNL | Cyclops | Thu Apr 18 1996 07:29 | 7 |
| Hmmm. I have no idea of Greyhawk's sales abilities, successes or
otherwise. What I do know is that much of what he said in here made
sense, struck a chord, and seemed to be worthy of more audience than it
got. For that reason alone, I think he was a sad loss to the Company.
IMO, we need more people like that.
Laurie.
|
4535.20 | | MAIL1::RICCIARDI | Be a graceful Parvenu... | Thu Apr 18 1996 13:50 | 5 |
| I think it has to do with your performance report/rating. Greybird
could have blown his numbers away, yet for some reason (read: data not
available) his manager rated him a 3. This 3, or even a 2 now a days,
can result in your being layed off if you go up against a 1 performer.
|
4535.21 | the rating system is probably at fault | NASEAM::READIO | A Smith & Wesson beats four aces, Tow trucks beat Chapman Locks | Thu Apr 18 1996 19:02 | 16 |
| Let me say that I do not know the Greyhawk. This does not relate to him.
It does, however, illustrate that things are not always as they appear.
When I was in CSSE I had to deal with a "top performer" that everyone
called "Plan-o-matic". Our jobs entailed writing service plans. His were
not worth the disk space they took up. However, he was measured on
quantity, not quality. Those in a position to rate his performance were
NOT in a position to measure the effectiveness of his service plans.
We spent years cleaning up after him...even before he was tfso'd. Thank
God he went with one of the first waves. If he hadn't have been in the
wrong place at the wrong time we'd STILL be dealing with his hot-air service
plans.
Sometimes those in a position to "rate" someone aren't qualified to do the
rating in the first place.
|
4535.22 | | ARCANA::CONNELLY | Don't try this at home, kids! | Thu Apr 18 1996 19:34 | 21 |
|
re: .17
> I do not think that everything we have done so far has been correct,
> but we are headed in the right direction. We will need to make
> adjustments along the way, but I would rather see us heading the right
> way.
The only constants to our direction that i can see are (since 1992) are
downsizing and disinvestment. We've blown away more than half of our
employees, cut services (MCS and SI) and direct sales, sold off various
technologies and their engineering groups, pretty much gotten out of
software, jumped into and then backed out of the retail consumer market,
and along the way cut benefits and brought in variable compensation.
It's difficult to say where this direction is taking us. Maybe we're
trying to become a Sun-like hot UNIX and NT box maker? Is that your
take? I'm wondering if we have a picture of whatever the next major
"milestone state" is that our current direction is aimed at.
- paul
|
4535.23 | My Prognostication | SHRCTR::PJOHNSON | aut disce, aut discede | Fri Apr 19 1996 07:20 | 5 |
| FWIW, I see Microsoft providing the O/S (whatever the union of NT and
95 will be called) and applications, Digital providing the hottest box
in the business, and MCI servicing the lot.
Pete
|
4535.24 | there are two sides to it | ESSC::KMANNERINGS | | Fri Apr 19 1996 09:24 | 29 |
| re .22
>The only constants to our direction that i can see are (since 1992) are
>downsizing and disinvestment. We've blown away more than half of our
>employees, cut services (MCS and SI) and direct sales, sold off various
>technologies and their engineering groups, pretty much gotten out of
>software, jumped into and then backed out of the retail consumer market,
>and along the way cut benefits and brought in variable compensation.
I would disagree with the word only in the above, and I think it needs
to be given context. The fact is that we, and many others in the market
needed to retreat and shorten the lines in 1990-92. IMO, we unfortunately
did not have a management capable of doing that, and instead of
retreating, went off on various adventures. We then panicked and
instead of withdrawing slowly and carefully, watching every dollar,
there was the rout you describe above.
On the other hand there have been positive things which you leave out.
We have obtained a lead in 64-bit computing, we have got a good unix
operating system on the shelf, and we have some nice bets running with
the alliance strategy. Some new management has come on board which
knows something about management, and it shows. This HAS put us back in
the game. It would be nice to get back to the mindset we had in the
1980's: "We are not the biggest, but we are the best." In those days
there was also a different attitude towards the employees. I think we
should recover some of that too.
Kevin
|
4535.25 | Perspective | MUNDIS::SSHERMAN | Clean living and a fast outfield | Fri Apr 19 1996 09:59 | 16 |
| I also did not know the Greyhawk personally, though we have corresponded
electronically (mainly about hockey).
I observe that the noter who started this subthread is located on node
ACISS1, which was the Greyhawk's node during his brief (and apparently
ill-starred) sojourn in Florida. Whatever may have happened there, it
was one short chapter in a long career. It is likely that there are
different perspectives, and as noted earlier, the Greyhawk is not here
to tell his side. Sometimes it is simply a matter of the chemistry not
being right.
For my part, I continue to hold him in high esteem for the role he
played in this notesfile and for the pleasure of corresponding with him.
He was a true original and we are poorer without him.
Steve
|
4535.26 | | ACISS1::BATTIS | Chicago Bulls-1996 world champs | Fri Apr 19 1996 10:29 | 5 |
|
Steve, you are correct. Mr. Rocush and the Greyhawk worked in the
same building. I happen to know both of them personally.
Mark
|