Conference 7.286::digital

    
    I know this is not the PC support Notes file, but I agree with your
    feeling.
    
    I am having similar probs with my Ultra High Note. In fact if I was a
    paying customer I would send it back.
    
    I too have spent hours on mine and I still I have problems; 2
    outstanding are:
    
    1) Under File Manager it sees drive A. Install a diskette and click and
    it comes back "Error: No Drive A" (or something to that effect)
    
    2) Power Mngt; reboot the machine and it hangs with the Workgroups
    logo, after an unspecified and inconsistent time period it times out to
    tell me that it I may have an incompatible 32 bit driver and go into
    386 mode to change it .. then it hangs again.
    
    The PC didn't come with diskette's so if it hangs, how do I get into
    386 mode ?.  I have played with almost every option in the SETUP for
    Power - disabled, Advanced etc ... all to no avail.
    
    Its a frustrating way to waste hours of time.
    I have played

This up-front work used to be done by CSSE (remember them?) and should
now be done by the PBU. What piece is broken? Feedback? Testing?

Pete

    My DECpc MULTIMEDIA 5100 (a Venturis 5100 with a sound card sold here
    in Europe) would not run Windows 95 right away.
    
    Sure, MCS was quick telling me I have to drop the CPU frequency to
    90Mhz first and then came up with another solution tackling the bus
    speed somehow and restore the CPU clock to 100Mhz. It works fine now
    ... but yes, our products tend to leve manufacturing in a somewhat 
    unfinished condition. This for both HW and SW by the way. 
    
    It sure would save MCS a whole lot of money if things were just a
    little better but I saving away a whole group is (was?) probably 
    a good idea to save a quick buck. 
    
    But then it's also a 'Time to Market' problem: if our products get 
    trapped in quality assurance programs/labs for too long, we might 
    loose precious time to sell the exact products. 
    
    It's a matter of balance; but the scale has become very unbalanced!!
    
    Regards, 
    
    Arnold

>
>This up-front work used to be done by CSSE (remember them?) and should
>now be done by the PBU. 

Couldn't agree more.  "Should be", but is ANYONE doing it now?  It would 
appear that the answer is NO.

Can you say DILBERT?

    The answer is simple. If the Digital products are found to be inferior
    we need to start using non-Digital products. We are MCS and we should
    use - as well as sell and support - non Digital products. The clearest
    message we can send to product engineering is to stop subsidizing them
    by our almost exclusive use of Digital products. 
    	

>    The answer is simple. If the Digital products are found to be inferior
>    we need to start using non-Digital products. We are MCS and we should
>    use - as well as sell and support - non Digital products. The clearest
>    message we can send to product engineering is to stop subsidizing them
>    by our almost exclusive use of Digital products. 
    	
I don't think I'd say our products are necessarily inferior, I'd say they're
not engineered to be supportable/serviceable.  I *love* my HiNote, but I've had
it for around 3 weeks now and have spend numerous hours in notes conferences
and still have yet to be able to connect it to a network!

I know this is possible because I've seen *lots* of people doing so.  My problem
is that when I ordered a ethernet card there was no help at all in how to 
connect it and I blame DIGITAL because they sold it to me.  My guess is that
this type of multi-vendor interoperability is only going to get worse.

Would the CSSE organization have caught this?  I don't think so, but I *know*
something like CSSE should be an absolute minimum on which to build additional
capabilities (like qualifying 3rd party products we sell) because they *would*
have caught a number of the other problems I've had.

-mark

    re: .last
    
<I don't think I'd say our products are necessarily inferior, I'd say they're
<not engineered to be supportable/serviceable.  I *love* my HiNote, but I've had
<it for around 3 weeks now and have spend numerous hours in notes conferences
<and still have yet to be able to connect it to a network!
    
    So, for three weeks you've LOVED something which refuses to do what you
    want it to do... and may I assume, something that probably impacts your
    ability to use it effectively.
    
    How come you *LOVE* something that does that to you?
    
    
    tony
    (who's being only partly facetious)

    Hey, I also doubt that I'd have gotten as far as I have with "my" Ultra
    were it not for DECnotes (and a supportive LJO Help Staff who also
    rely heavily on DECnotes).
    
    Wouldn't it be cool if our EXTERNAL CUSTOMERS could get support like
    that... via their unmodified web browsers... connecting to an external
    web server... running Workgroup Web Forum... staffed by trained CS
    folk...
    
    The phones would still have their place, because web-based support
    would not be able to handle ALL cases of trouble ("I can't boot!") but
    it would help ("How can I upgrade?"), and I bet it'd benefit us in Cust
    Sat & revenue.
    
    
    
    

    re:6
    
    	That sort of thing (checking installation/use instructions) used to
    be done in SIE (as part of POM) and by Human Factors testing as well.
    The idea was to NOT be an expert on whatever it is you were testing. A
    non-expert should be able to follow the installation and set-up
    instructions to successful completion.
    
    	It makes no sense to design intructions for someone that already knows 
    how to do the task at hand. You would not believe how many times I had
    provided feedback, only to have someone come back and say, "Well an
    experienced so-and-so would have no problem understanding this". Hence,
    these sorts of things were labeled as "not a problem" many times.
    
    	The situation sounds even worse now, as I know POM is not done by
    SIE, CSSE doesn't seem to do this, and Human Factors (as far as I know)
    is optional, if they even exist at all anymore. 
    
    	At one point in time, there was a push to make Digital products
    easier to install and use. Apple seems to have done quite well for
    itself with a fair amount of it's stretegy based around ease of use.
    With all the layoffs and reorgs, this seems to have gotten lost in the
    shuffle. I'm not even sure who does what regarding ease of use testing
    anymore.
    
    	Ray

    Just a guess... but, isn't one reason Apple is successful at
    implementing "easy" to install peripherals, etc. is that they adopted a
    single strategy/architecture years and years ago, and have learned how
    to use it?
    
    (this comment provided free of charge by a non-apple user)
    
    tony
    ;*)

re .8:

>    Wouldn't it be cool if our EXTERNAL CUSTOMERS could get support like
>    that... via their unmodified web browsers... connecting to an external
>    web server... running Workgroup Web Forum... staffed by trained CS
>    folk...

Wouldn't it be cool if our customers didn't need support like that?

John

    
    RE: SIE & POM
    
    Can somebody tell me what and who SIE and POM are, please?
                                                             

In Note 4294.11 dated 95/Nov/28-10:44:35, DRIFT::alfant.ljo.dec.com::Wood said ...
 
> re .8:
> 
> >    Wouldn't it be cool if our EXTERNAL CUSTOMERS could get support like
> >    that... via their unmodified web browsers... connecting to an external
> >    web server... running Workgroup Web Forum... staffed by trained CS
> >    folk...
> 
> Wouldn't it be cool if our customers didn't need support like that?

Of course it would. You ought to be able to take the HiNote out of the box 
and connect it to the network and use it within an hour or so and not
much technical savvy. But there's more than a grain of truth in what
Dan writes -- as easy as we make the "vanilla" use of our products, there
will always be less-than-vanilla things people want to do and those won't
be so easy. I just bought a PowerMac. It booted right away, but getting
AppleShare to work, getting an Ethernet connection to work via TCP/IP, 
and even getting it to work with my HP Deskwriter C, was not so easy --
it took me several days to get everything straightened out, and only after
several calls to knowledgable friends and a call to the HP technical
hotline.

So I, for one, would have loved to have had a publically available
workgroup web forum, which contained some answers to my questions and
was monitored by trained folks from Apple and/or HP to answer those
questions that weren't already in the discussion set.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
Meyer A. Billmers                      Digital Equipment Corporation
[email protected]                    Multivendor Customer Service
(603) 884-0350                             Applied Engineering Group
            

    
    
    Yes, it would be nice to write PC documentation that any novice could
    understand.  But it won't happen when we write user manuals from
    styrofoam models and non-existant (or out of rev) engineering specs
    like we were forced to do for the Ultra Notebooks.  In the last four
    years we have never had a "working" system when writing the user
    manuals.  Today's PC tech writers have to "envision" a virtual
    machine running perfectly out of the box, then fictionalize customer
    interaction with the machine.... 
    
    Not a pretty picture.
    
    Gary Beaudreau
    PCBU Doc Mgr
     

>    So, for three weeks you've LOVED something which refuses to do what you
>    want it to do... and may I assume, something that probably impacts your
>    ability to use it effectively.
>    
>    How come you *LOVE* something that does that to you?
    
Good question.  Maybe it's that same kind of thing that happens when you get a
new toy - this was my first laptop.

I'm finding myself using the laptop a LOT more than I thought I would and can't
tell how much is caused by it being my first one OR because of it's superior
design, features, etc.  Clearly my opinion of the latter is diminishing quite
quickly.

Alas, I *still* can't connect to my environment at work from home other than
logging into a terminal server and using a terminal emulator to run VMS mail
and the novelty is starting to wear thin.  I can't use windows 95 dial-in
networking features and in the office I can't get the ethernet card to work. 
I'm expecting that over time, particularly through the use of NOTES I'll get it
working, but if I was a paying customer I'm not sure I'd be handling it this
calmly... 

-mark

    Re: .16
    
    There was a reader's choice msg this morning about a no-cost
    swap of some PCMCIA Ethernet cards because of a problem -- I'm
    not sure if it's the problem you're describing.  It involves:
    
    Digital PCMCIA Ethernet Combo Adapter FR-PCP78-AD   (co-ax jack)
    Digital PCMCIA Ethernet 10BaseT Adapter FR-PCP78-AC   (telephone jack)
    
    In the US call (800) 225-5385.
    

    So what's the difference (in concept) between WorkGroup Web Forum,
    which we don't have, and may not have for the foreseeable future, and
    the DECPCI (and various other) forums on CompuServe, which we do
    _already_ use for support ?
    
    Both cost money - either to CompuServe or to your favourite Internet
    Service Provider.
    
    Both have to be resourced properly or they do more harm than good - the
    DEC4WNT forum has declined to that state at the moment, although the NT
    Program folks tell me that "it will be fixed" (hopefully, soon), and a
    few individuals (Digital and ex-Digital) are doing their best to keep
    it alive. 
    
    And finally: PCs are PCs. Many things in the hardware architecture are
    crap (e.g. IRQs), most of the software is crap, and they'll always be
    hassle. Sometimes they'll be so much hassle you'll wonder why you
    bother. But they're "open". There aren't many people these days
    prepared to pay the extra money for the "added value" (=
    "proprietariness"????) which a Mac (or any other non-IBM-clone)
    allegedly offers.
    
    Digital employees should be grateful there are still _some_ people left
    willing to pay a little extra for quality, and Digital management
    should note that as we reduce our product and service quality to that
    of "the opposition", we better make sure we win on cost. (Ooops, quick,
    lose a few VPs then).
    
    regards
    john

>    Yes, it would be nice to write PC documentation that any novice could
>    understand.  But it won't happen when we write user manuals from
>    styrofoam models and non-existant (or out of rev) engineering specs
>    like we were forced to do for the Ultra Notebooks.  In the last four
>    years we have never had a "working" system when writing the user
>    manuals.  Today's PC tech writers have to "envision" a virtual
>    machine running perfectly out of the box, then fictionalize customer
>    interaction with the machine.... 
    
I hope I won't get beaten up too heavily on this one, but...

PC users don't read manuals.  period.  full stop!

I know this is a difficult message to hear when you're a doc writer, but it's
the truth!  Now that doesn't mean documentation is going to go away, it just
means it will be different!  Today's documents are on-line help files and 
hyper linked together so someone can quickly find what they want.  Netscape (and
others) have taken it the extreme and even made them remote web pages.

I remember in the old days doing development and not worrying about how 
difficult it was to run a program I wrote because the documentation will take
care of it.  Talk about a cop-out!

How many people here still have their shrink wrap on their microsoft office
manuals?  I freely admit to it and am proud of it. That doesn't mean I don't
use HELP.  I'm in there all the time and think it's EXCELLENT documentation.

btw - it's a lot easier to update "manuals" when they're in the form of help
files that can be more easily modified at the last minute or even offered in
down-loadable format for those users who want up-to-the-minute information.

-mark

    .13
    POM=Point of Manufactur.
    
    SIE=not a clue

    
    
    RE: .19    
    
    95% of all of our PC documentation complaints are about online
    information.  Most of these customers are still screaming for
    printed manuals.  I do agree that online .hlp files are great
    for software apps and make it easy to update at the last minute.
    All of the sw apps loaded on our Starion line comes with only
    online info, you should hear the complaints.
    
    gb
    

>    95% of all of our PC documentation complaints are about online
>    information.

I guess I stand corrected, but I would also be curious to know exactly what type
of printed matter people would be interested in.  

-mark

>            But they're "open". There aren't many people these days
>   prepared to pay the extra money for the "added value" (=
>   "proprietariness"????) which a Mac (or any other non-IBM-clone)
>   allegedly offers.

  Actually, there are lots of people.  Apple sells over 1 million Macs
  a quarter and is the leading supplier of personal computers in
  the U.S. and 2nd largest world wide (after Compaq).

  Mac's only appear more expensive to people who don't understand
  enough about how computers are used to judge what they really cost.  
  A Gartner study reported Mac's cost $5000 less per seat than Windows
  over the useful life of the machine.  Windows 95 has not closed
  the gap.  On the contrary, it has exposed more people to the
  technology and spurred Mac sales.

  It's unclear what "open" means when you consider Microsoft and Intel's
  market hegemony.

I don't mean to start a big debate, just challenge some comfortable
assumptions.  What's the *real* reason the Mac leads in ease-of-use
and the PC industry hasn't been able to catch-up?

I don't think there's any simple pat answer, but important factors
include:

  1) Stronger vision and commitment to making technology easy to use.

  2) Stronger integration that comes from "controlling" more of the
     system (hardware and software).  It's harder to innovate when
     you don't control large parts of the system.

     Apple believes hardware capabilities drive OS development.
     Microsoft believes applications drive OS development.

  3) Different approaches to solving the fundamental problem:
       How to get software to run on the user's hardware?

     Apple: design the hardware and software to work together
       by retaining control of key pieces while opening others.
       Do it well enough and use market strength to get others to follow.

     Microsoft: make the software configurable enough to support
       a vast array of hardware options.  Do it well enough and
       use market strength to get others to follow.

No one system is best for everything, but in general, Mac's will be
more expensive to buy, but easier and less expensive to use for the
forseeable future.

But markets don't always favor the best technology as narrowly defined.
Perception, uncertainty, incomplete information, and resistance to change,
can all be critical factors.  Microsoft and Intel have learned their
marketing lessons well:  If you build a better path to your door,
the world will beat it down to get your mouse trap.

The "open" strategy is to support customers to use the best 
combination of technology from their perspective.  PCs, Macs,
Alpha, NT, UNIX, VMS, etc...  Not either/or but both/and.

- Peter

    
    	Peter has a real good point there. Macs are easier to use. Period.
    I consider myself fairly proficient in both technologies, and the
    Windoze/Intel environment is a real pain in the butt. Macs are
    virtually idiot profgf. Which is why they are so popular in elementary
    schools and with kids in general. Mine fight over the Mac, while the
    "open" PC sits there unused.
    
    	Apple's problem is not proprietariness, but manufacturing to
    demand. In our business having a three-month order backlog is *not*
    goodness in your hottest models.
    
    	Now if we could put an Alpha at $2,100 with WNT&plug/play
    capabilities, our stock would look like Netscape's...
    
    		the Greyhawk

Yet another hinote lover checking in. It has some problems but
is great to use.

To Dan, we are already in internal fT with a web access for dsnlink.
This doesn't inlcude internal notesfiles for external customers but 
that's a marketing/business issue not a technical one. Internal users
have had notes access via STARS for years. And customers can read
the santized for your protection databases.

Any product that MCS uses for support out of the CSCs has to talk
to the call handling systems. That is how customer's enter 'problems'
(we have to call them service requests) and talk to MCS engineers
electronically. That is also how all calls are logged no matter how
they come in. 

The EOD segment manager for this is Michele Bonessa and the program
manager is Pierre Cortes both @VBO. If anyone wants to lobby for 
change. liesl

    Then, on the other hand, on-line documentation is of no use if
    you can't get on-line to read it; e.g., try reading an on-line
    troubleshooting manual about booting problems when the system
    where the manual resides on, is the one that doesn't boot. ;-)
    
    ...petri

    
    
    
    	SIE = System Integration Evaluation.
    
    	Used to be (should be) done by Engineering to evaluate a product
    using every/all options and configurations, especially in a systems
    environment.
    
    	POM is still a requirement, but I don't know if it done in PCBU
    land. POM is takes a product straight from manufacturing and acts like
    a customer who just received it. They (should) go through from delivery
    to installing and feed back to the relevant groups anything impacting
    customer satisfaction at each stage.
    
    CSSE (who were part of what's now MCS) used to be represented on the 5x5's 
    during the product development cycle to ensure servicability and 
    reliability goals were achieved. As far as I'm aware (but I may be wrong)  
    MCS representatives still attend 5x5's, but I've no idea how the PCBU 
    operates product development, maybe they threw out the phase review
    process along with the rest of the baggage when they split. 
    
    
    Cheers,
    
    		Tom

    what's a 5 x 5? 

    
    
    RE:  .28
    
    Q:  what's a 5 x 5......      
    
    A:  a waste of time
    
    
    RE: .23, .24
    
    Before joining the PCBU (back in '87) I worked for an IBM PC VAR and
    and Apple/Mac authorized developer.   The Mac compatible products
    were much more difficult to design due to ther TIGHT design
    specification requirement.... but they worked.   IBM  PC's on the
    otherhand being "open" left too much for interpretation of the
    spec and alternative implementation allowances.  This openness
    allowed much leeway in the design to get the device or software
    to operate in a standalone "empty" system.  Now add several thirdparty
    products in the same box and good luck trying to make it all work
    "together".   Things have gotten better in 9 years.... but they got
    a long way to go to top a Mac design.
    
    

    I got the general idea that they may be a waste of time, but what were
    (are?) they supposed to achieve ?

    	I disagree about PC users not reading manuals. I would say that
    most only read them if they have to. The point about on-line help
    helping someone through a boot problem is just one case in point.
    
    	Trying to get a complete, easy to use manual for any product has
    always been a problem. From the tech writers point of view, they
    rarely ever get to see a finished product before the manual is cast in
    concrete. I've seen a manual have as many as 100 people that supposedly
    reviewed it, but you're lucky if you have more than 2 people that can
    be held accountable for accurate contents. So guess how well the manual
    actually got reviewed ?
    
    	The point in all of this is that whatever process you use, you have
    to want to get better at it, and you have to do the types of things
    that actually improve the process. One thing that has always been a
    sore spot is the feedback mechanism.
    
    	You follow a process, you build and ship a product, you get feedback 
    as to what was right, wrong, or missing. You keep the things that went 
    right and you try to fix the things that went wrong. So, if the group 
    responsible for the process doesn't get real customer feedback as to what 
    went right or wrong, there's little to no chance the process will improve. 
    
    	Of course the other problem is finding someone actually responsible to 
    fix a problem. If someone buys one of our PC's, it's probably a safe bet
    that some % will want to access the internet with it. So why is the person 
    with the HiNote PC having such a hard time ? 
    
    	Simply having the feedback is not enough either. In the HiNote case, 
    a problem has been identified. Who is responsible to correct this 
    oversight ? Who pays for it ?
    
    	Continous improvement is not a hard concept to understand. It is 
    apparently a bit harder to implement though :-(
    
    	Ray

Now for the straight answer:

5 x 5 is term from Digital's past that referred to a committee 
for any particular product that had as its members a representative
from Manufacturing, Engineering, Field Service (was usually CSSE),
Product Mgmt, and Sales (I think).

The 5x5's job was to take care of business for a particular proudct 
related to all of the above disciplines.


Joe

Well I'm livid!  I just got off the phone with Megahertz - that's the company
whose ethernet card DIGITAL sent me to use with my laptop.  After over a week
of trying to get my network connection going I finally called their support
line only to find out it doesn't work over 10BASE2 cable. 

I hold DIGITAL 100% responsible for this.  I wonder how much this one is gonna
cost us in support, not to mention in loss of customer satifaction.

-mark

    If so few people read PC manuals, why are there so many pseudo-manuals
    in all the bookstores (the SYBEX line for example)? I would assume the
    publishers are making a profit.
    
    \dave (who just shelled out around $20 to get usable Win95 docs)

    -2 
    
    A memo just came out from PCBU regarding certain NIC's in the notebooks. 
    Apparently digital is replacing qualifying cards free of charge. Don't 
    know if this applies to your model or covers your sympton but check it 
    out. I've attached the memo.
    
    regards,
    
    Pete
    
    Moderator: If it's not appropriate to post the message then please
               delete this reply. I did not see any distribution restrictions 
               on the memo.
    


                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date:     27-Nov-1995 02:12pm EST
                                        From:     PCBU Marketing
                                                  PCBU@A1@SALES@AKO
                                        Dept:      
                                        Tel No:    

TO: See Below
 
Subject: Voluntary Swap Program, Laptop Ethernet PC Card FR-PCP78-AC/A          

From:  Rich Liguori @AKO, DTN 244-6531
       Richard Glantz @AKO, DTN 244-7478


                            VOLUNTARY SWAP PROGRAM
                    LAPTOP ETHERNET PC CARD FR-PCP78-AC/AD

Based on Digital's continual testing of PC (PCMCIA) Cards, we have uncovered a
reliability problem with these Digital-branded Ethernet cards:

     	Digital PCMCIA Ethernet Combo Adapter	FR-PCP78-AD   (co-ax jack)
	Digital PCMCIA Ethernet 10BaseT Adapter FR-PCP78-AC   (telephone jack)

The typical symptoms of the problem on the combo card are intermittent bursts
of CRC's, high collision rates, and misaligned frames, which could eventually
result in a crashed network.

In keeping with its strict quality standards, Digital has instituted a no-
charge "swap" program for these cards; and it has implemented an easy process
for customers to accomplish this swap.  When this process is followed, Digital 
will absorb shipping charges as well.  Both card and cable must be returned.

Digital will replace defective cards with the customer's choice from a
specified list of cards that pass our compatibility and reliability test suite
for Windows for Workgroups, Windows 95, and Windows NT. 


At present, the customer can choose as replacement for the combo card either:

	Digital EtherWORKS PCMCIA Turbo Plus	DEPCM-BA
	TDK	PCMCIA Ethernet Adapter		LAC-CD023U

At present, the customer can choose as replacement for the 10BaseT card either:

	Digital	EtherWORKS PCMCIA Turbo		DEPCM-AA
	TDK	PCMCIA Ethernet Adapter		LAC-CD021U

Please be aware that the Digital EtherWORKS cards are presently not suitable
as a WNT client on the Ultra.  We believe this to be a driver problem; and as
soon as we have qualified the new software, we will reissue this notice
accordingly. 

Please also be aware that the TDK card will not be available until the first
week of December in the States, later in Europe.  The Digital EtherWORKS card,
however, is readily available. 

Additional cards from several other well-known vendors will be added to the
list as their products go from beta stage into production units and pass our
test suites.  Customers who believe they have an immediate reliability problem
should act now, however.

The replacement process is through the Customer Return Centers worldwide.  
Customers may contact their local CRC's at the numbers listed below.  Re-
sellers should follow their normal return process for full credit. 

	Austria		0222-86630-2000		Italy		039-2026024
     	Asia		provided upon purchase	Israel		052-593300
	Belgium		02-7297744		Netherlands	030-2832888
     	Canada					Norway		02-256300
          English	(800) 267-5251		Portugal
     	  French	(800) 267-2603		  Lisbon	01-3877051
	Denmark		80301005		  Oporto	02-6068805
	Finland		98002870		Spain
	France		1-69874123		  Madrid	91-5834257
	Germany		01307702		  Barcelona	93-4012222
	Ireland					Sweden		08-988835
	  Rep. of Ire	01-381216		Switzerland	15552161
	  No. Ireland	0232-381381		United Kingdom	01256-59200
     						United States 	(800) 225-5385

No other Digital PC Cards are involved in this action.

Thank you.		 


 Distribution:
 This message was delivered to you utilizing the Readers Choice delivery 
 services.  If you have questions regarding this message, please contact 
 the authors.




Distribution:
 
TO:  JERRY LOWE@ALF
TO:  ROBERT LOWE@ALF
TO:  JAMES LOWERY@ALF
TO:  LALLAAISHA LUCAS@ALF
TO:  RICHARD LUX@ALF
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Actually I've seen that memo on the PCMCIA problems several times, and no, it's
not the card I have. 

The good news is I called someone in IEG and she explained that they don't have
access to as many models as are sold to our external customers, so with a little
luck, none of them will be exposed to this.  However, I don't know if anything
in the system prevents this.  To anyone in customer interface land who may be
listening: 

	Megahertz PCMCIA ethernet cards do NOT run over 10BASE2 (thinwire)
	under windows 95!  They are working on the drivers and will be posted on
	their web site when available.  There are no symptoms other than they
	don't work.  Windows 95 reports the hardware has no conflicts and is
	configured correctly.

This raises another interesting question, though.  If DIGITAL makes a PCMCIA
modem, how come when I bought something internally I was sold one made by
Megaherz?  I thought the default was always if it was made by Digital you had
to buy that one?

-mark

    Digital doesn't make modems, nor PCMCIA Ethernet adapters.  We relabel
    products made by other companies (including IBM and US Robotics).
    
    					Steve

	Sorry to call you on that one Steve but Digital does have a line
	of PCMCIA Ethernet cards made by the EtherWORKS folks; DEPCM-**...
	they were over a year late to market, thus forcing the PCBU
	to come up with some of there own to resell with their notebooks...
	the lateness has also affected their "popularity"...

	re: why did I get a non-Digital PCMCIA card with my IEG order?
	simple: some customer bought it through Digital and then returned
	it...IEG liberally uses returned goods vs. new stuff to fill
	internal orders....

	_kelley

Just as a dumb question.  Does this mean that the modems mentioned in an earlier
note:

>     	Digital PCMCIA Ethernet Combo Adapter	FR-PCP78-AD   (co-ax jack)
>	Digital PCMCIA Ethernet 10BaseT Adapter FR-PCP78-AC   (telephone jack)

are NOT digital's?  If not whose are they?  Why aren't the vendor's names and
model numbers mentioned for easy reference?  I just assumed that since they said
Digital on them (and not someone else's name) this couldn't possibly be the 
modem I have.  Also, I looked up the internal number mine was ordered by and
they WERE different.

-mark

RE: .39

	Those aren't modems. They are ethernet cards. They were/are
	rebadged IBM ethernet cards that don't work. They are replaced
	by the DEPCM which does work. (nicely I might add)

	The "DEC" modem (28.8) is a rebadged USRobotics modem. It's not
	too bad at all.

								mike

>	Those aren't modems. They are ethernet cards. They were/are
>	rebadged IBM ethernet cards that don't work. They are replaced
>	by the DEPCM which does work. (nicely I might add)
>
>	The "DEC" modem (28.8) is a rebadged USRobotics modem. It's not
>	too bad at all.

Actually I knew they were ethernet cards, it's just my fingers that didn't.

Could you elaborate on the term 'rebadged'?  What I'm trying to understand is
whether or not the card actually says DIGITAL on it or US Robotics/IBM?

    A US Robotics card rebadged by Digital says "Digital" on it, but
    it's manufactured by US Robotics.

Just like the monitor I'm viewing now says "Digital" on it (a VRC21) but it's
made by Mitsubishi.

					Steve

    I recall that also the DEPCM-** cards that we're shipping are made 
    by someone else (Accton Technology Corp)? I understand the original
    DEPCM, that never actually shipped, was internal development.
    
    ...petri

The plot continues to thicken...

I just got off the phone with someone in IEG who checked and found out that 
there are NO pcmcia cards that work with windows 95.  When I told her I just saw
a memo outlining an exchange policy for one that did, she asked me to get her
the part number.  I went back to .35 of this note which had the memo published
and I noticed that it called out the following:

>At present, the customer can choose as replacement for the 10BaseT card either:
>
>	Digital	EtherWORKS PCMCIA Turbo		DEPCM-AA
>	TDK	PCMCIA Ethernet Adapter		LAC-CD021U

but then I noticed it didn't mention 10Base2.  Does this mean I am indeed out of
luck or will this card also work with thinwire?

It seems to me that simply specifying what the card works with as part of the
name or model (as Megahertz does) could go a long way at reducing unnecessary
problems.

-mark

    The DEPCM comes in two varieties:
    
       DEPCM-BA  -  supports Thinwire and Twisted-pair
    
       DEPCM-AA  -  supports Twisted-pair only
    
    There are Windows 95 drivers available for both cards from
    ftp.digital.com, C-serve, and KALI::PCDRIVERS.
    
    -Brent

There are many cards which work with Windows 95.  See AKOCOA::DECPC_PORTABLES
note 1546.

				Steve