Conference 7.286::digital

    You _might_ find some answers in HELIX::CTNOTES.
    

    Can't help you with the manufacturing questions, but the PRO380
    supports 1MB of memory. There is 512KB on the motherboard and there
    is (was) a 512KB daughtercard that took it to a full meg.
    
    Charlie

    And sorry, didn't see the second frame of your note. The 380
    uses a 10MHz J-11 CPU. That CPU (although faster) is being made
    today and is the CPU for the 11/93 (at least). I think one of the current
    J-11 CPUs would work (he says) just fine on the 380, it would
    be clocked at a slower speed.
    
    Charlie

>    We have a (?)customer suing us around the Pro380.
 
      Do you mean that they are taking legal action, which is the normal
    meaning of the term 'sue' in modern English; it does also mean to
    follow, or pursue.
       
>>    1) Is the PRO380 (512KBytes) buyable today ? (probably not !)
    
      A look at VTX CEO shows that PC380 models are generally classed as
    'Obsolete, but can still be custom built'. However, the dates on the
    entries that I looked at were from 1986-88, so I doubt if the bit about
    'can still be custom built' applies, except for a very large amount of
    money.
      You should still be able to get some from secondhand suppliers.
    Additionally, I saw today a list of surplus equipment from the repair
    centre at Evry, France, which included several PC380s. Contact Hans
    Candel @JGO, he is administering the distribution/disposal of the
    equipment.
    
>    3) When as the production been stopped ?
>    4) When have the last orders been taken ? 
>    5) When have the last machines been shipped ?
 
      To judge from the VTX CEO entries, about 10 years ago.
    
    Ken

    I really liked the base noters opening sentence indicating that
    s(he) is the product manager of France.
    
    I just can't help wondering that when FCS finally arrives just
    exactly where do they intend to ship the product to...

  re: .0

  Heck, I've got one I'll sell you!  (Only 1/2 meg of memory, though).

    
    Re: .5 
    
    Just who would buy France? :-)
    
    Some possible buyers...
    Quebec?
    Belgium?  
    Francophone Africa?
    
    jc
    

    
    re .7
    
    
    
    oh oh........
    
    

    Belgium would be a good idea since they wouldn't actually
    have to move it (obviously the shipping costs would be
    horrendous...you could, come to think of it, also break it
    up into pieces and have it trucked out).

    
    
    Re. .5, .7 et al
    
    Come to think of it, the Product Manager's portfolio could well
    increase soon...to include Quebec...they too have not as yet determined
    where the FRS will take them.

    I guess we could do some country bundling but where does Franbec
    get put?
    
    We could have them both shipped so they meet up in the middle of 
    the North Atlantic but this has two definite disadvanatages
    that I can think of straight off:
    
    (1) It plays havoc with the North Atlantic shipping lanes but
    you could literally get around this or alternatively figuratively
    by offloading on each side and having a superhighway running
    right through the middle.
    
    (2) The other point is more worrisome: the subzero North Atlantic
    temperatures will positively ruin the Cote d'Azur's tourist industry.
    
    All is not lost however, if we rotate France so that the Alps are
    facing Greenland then this could support all-year round skiing
    which could bring in major tourist dollars from the North American
    seaboard states.
    

��    7) Is this processor always built ?

    This depends on your view of 'creation science'...

    bout the only place you can get the memory boards now would be from
    Field Service Stock room 17. As one noter indicated, there is 512kb
    built on the mother board. You can then add the MSC11-B(54-16234-LA)
    as the daughter card. You can also fill the empty slots in the
    backplane with 256KB memory options, MSC11-CK(54-15488). These should
    all still be available thru FIELD SERVICE stock rooms, but I would
    suggest you contact them first. I don't think they are meant to be
    sold to customers as add on options from Field Service stock rooms.
    
    You might also check on DIAL. These used to be readily available there
    for the old die hards.
    
    The processor is the J11, and Field Service would be the only one left
    with any stock of these I believe.
    
    The people that handle support calls on these products are as follows;
    
    	Lynn Grettum	STOWOA::GRETTUM
    	Dave Carrol
    	Dana Safford	MSE1::SAFFORD
    	Pam Ellis	MSE1::ELLIS
    
    good Luck
    John Leeds

    If my memory serves me right, official EOL (End Of Life) for
    the PRO350/380, Rainbow, DECmate and VAXmate (the youngest
    one in the crowd) was around summer 1989 (I believe it also
    meant that any maintenance contracts for said equipment
    should not have been renewed after that point; i.e., when
    they expired, they expired).
    
    ...petri

    .5.7.9.10.11  Grow up..
    
    JC
    

    .5.7.9.10.11  thanks for the laugh
    
    DL

    One generally uses notes to form a counterpoint but here
    .5.7.9.10.11.15.16.17 form a wonderful little counterpoint
    to this note...

    I'm sure field service can supply you parts for the pro3xx series, bu t
    not at a price you could swollow. But if you still want to buy them I
    think I could get many  at MLP.
    
    As a field engineer, my best suggestion is to tie a chain to it and use
    it as an anchor!!

    
    	And the only tool you need to attach the anchor is a pen!
    
    					Bill

    Re. .14
    
      I looked in TIMA, there is an entry for the PC500 (Vaxmate) giving an
    EOSL (end of service life) date of 31-DEC-1995. I found no entries for
    the PC380. This may be because it was used as the system console for
    the Nautilus, so it can't be EOSL'd without the Nautilus (Vax 8800) going
    too. There was an entry from four years ago telling FS engineers to
    swap modules in the console in the event of a console failure, rather
    than swapping the complete console, as doing the latter was causing a
    serious shortage of spares. 
    
      If we *are* being sued by a customer, I bet it is because a Nautilus
    is down with a console problem, and we have no spares for it.
    
    Ken

    Over the last year or so we must have sent loads of pro380 consoles to
    be scrapped as the Vax 8500/8700/8800's were replaced by Vax 4000/6000
    and 7000's and sent to IMM/TREG. Maybe that might be a place to start
    looking for bits.
    
    
    
    					Dave.

    It was considered here to be pokeing fun at a French colleague
    and anything but a counterpoint to the base noters request for help.
    
    
    JC

    Well, I certainly didn't interpret it to be poking fun at .0, but
    rather just an amusing play on words, a form of humor I particularly
    enjoy (puns, clever twists of meanings, etc). 
    
    I would say that people were having fun with a "word picture" that
    .0 happenned to have inadvertantly triggerred, not that they were
    making fun of .0s command of English (which I would _never_ do). I
    admire/respect folk who expend the effort to communicate with me in 
    _my_ native language, and always strive to focus on the meaning of
    their words rather than their form. I'd love to reciprocate (ie learn
    another language), but unfortunately there doesn't seem to _be_ a
    language that is as broadly spoken/useful as English.
    
    Lighten up folk...
    
    	Dave

Could the base noter describe what the customer is upset about
which caused them to sue us?

If it is possible to describe it here (maybe not if there is a court case
pending), maybe we could: 
* More accurately offer the assistance that is needed (I don't recall it        
    actually saying anything about spares, we're just guessing)
* Avoid a similar situation with other customers in the future.

Thanks,
Kevin

Re .23 et al

The French are absolute masters at word games, by the way.  In the 
FRENCH notesfile there are a couple of "jeux de mots" (word games)
notes in which some of the entries are mind-boggling in their 
sophistication.  Even the titles (ex. "Jeux de mots laids"--"Ugly 
word games") may be word-plays in themselves.

Where word games are concerned, the French could have us all for 
lunch and still be hungry.

Mac

	re. .23

	Well said ...

	73,

	Tero (OH2KWF) sleeping ...

    Part Number 54-16234-LA is available in Nijmegen Field service
    stockroom. They are reporting to the corporation that they have
    3 units in stock. There are another 29 units in Andover Mass
    SR 17 field service stock room.
    
    

    If you need a spare console for an 8000 we ship
    them to salvage weekly. We have several on hand now.
    
    milpnd::jsullivan

    
    As the author of .7, and speaking for myself, no disrespect was 
    intended the author of .0 
    
    The idea of France as a product was just too amusing to pass up. 
    
    While cleaning in anticipation for a move back to the Mill I have 
    uncovered this oldie but goodie on a many-times photocopied copy.
    Enjoy,
    jc 
      
    =================================================================

                              That Old-Time PDP

       ( Sung to the tune of "That Old-Time Rock'n'Roll" by Bob Seger )
    
             Just take that PRO down off the shelf,  
             I'll sit here and program it by myself. 
             Half a meg is just fine for me,         
             I love that old-time PDP.               

  Refrain:   I love that old-time PDP                 
             The kinda CPU that set you free.         
             Instruction set sure looks good to me.   
             I love that old-time PDP.                
                                                
             Don't try to take me to ZK.
             I won't make it, I won't last a day.
             32 bits is twice what I need.
             I love that old-time PDP.                
       
                 Refrain
 
             Say I'm old fashioned, Say I'm over the hill,
             say I'm out of touch, say what you will.
             Those new CPUs ain't got the same thrill,
             I love that old-time PDP.                
           
                 Refrain 
             
             You gotta balance complexity 
             against function and quality
             32 bits is twice what I need,
             I love that old-time PDP.                

                 Refrain
             

             Author: Anon.

    I believe "That Old-Time PDP" is due to one Gordon Ledgard, noted wit
    of the old Laboratory Data Products group. Same guy who did "Cycles
    for Nothing (and Your MIPS for Free)".
    
    Trusting that few remaining DECcies are in a position to dispute me,
    Chuck

    OK PRO fans, another question.
    
    I working with a customer that collects old computers. He found a PRO
    somewhere and has 2 questions.
    
    1) It seems to still have software loaded, but it wants a password to
    get in. Obviously he doesnt know it. Is there a way in?
    
    2) He heard we had a UNIX for it- called VENIX. True? any chance
    someone still has a copy around?
    
    This fellow is a very good customer, and a true hacker of the highest
    order. Id like to help him if I can.
    
    thanks,
    
    

    
    1. Yes. But he will need bootable TCL.
     
    2. Venix it is. 
    
    jc
    

    Venix is/was a third party product, not a Digital developed product.
    
    so somehow you'll need to buy a license properly.
    
    John
    

there was also a dec version of unix edition 7 that ran on the pro.
called prov7m, it was killed in field test due to politics or performance.
i still use it on a pro 350 i have at home.

there was also at least one version rumored to be available on the
internet.  a pro is a pdp-11, so it seems likely.

if you get venix, be aware the file system is edition 6.
if you get the dec version, be aware it only supported the 5M and 10M disks,
RD50 and RD51, but it should be relatively easy to extend if you can find
the source code.

    I seem to remember that we built a few with an RT-11 O/S on it
    also.  Would this also need a password?
    
    

>>   I seem to remember that we built a few with an RT-11 O/S on it
>>    also.  Would this also need a password?
    
    RT-11 will run on any of the PROs (350 or 380).  It doesn't need any
    specific hardware -- or software for that matter.  If you have a
    distribution kit on the right media, then you can install it on a PRO.
    The only restriction is you need the minimum version level to get PRO
    support (can't remember what it is but I think it was V5+ something or
    other).
    
    True, RT-11 does not require any passwords.
    
    
    Larry

    The first version of RT-11 to run on a PRO was V5.1C circa 1983/84
    
    Version 5.5 or 5.6 took full advantage of the J-11 CPU on the 380
    (5.6 was the last version of RT-11).
    
    Charlie

    
    Well, well, well! 
    
    Perhaps there is more to the 'France for sale story'
    than previously believed....  
    
    This small gem was carried today in the Vogon News service.
    ( US: 2/8/95  France: 8/2/95 )
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
    
  PAINTERS, MOUNTAINEERS LAUNCH EIFFEL TOWER REVAMP
   
   PARIS - Painters, guarded by mountain climbers, gave the Eiffel Tower
   its first brush-strokes in a seven-yearly revamp.
   
   Strapped into harnesses and suspended to cables under the watchful
   eyes of the mountaineers, the painters will take 14 months to restore
   the 320-metre (1,049-ft) high Paris landmark erected as part of the
   International Exhibition of 1889.
   
   "It's a pretty acrobatic and vertiginous operation. It's all going to
   be done by hand which isn't easy given that the tower is exposed to
   wind and rain," said Christian Marestier, head of the company which
   runs the monument.
   
   "We've reinforced security with special lifelines, or cables, but it's
   still a craftsman's job. The aim is to protect tourists so that pots
   of paint don't fall on their heads."

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------