Conference 7.286::digital

    There's a $20 rebate on the 520ic as well - don't miss out on it.
    I saw the forms at Office Max.
    
    The PC magazines have reviewed the 520ic.  I've seen it in at least
    three "printer roundups".
    
    				Steve

    My wife went to SAM's last week and returned with a brochure
    it had a Digital pentium multimedia PC at a pretty impressive Price.
    Maybe this will be a Merry Christmass and hopefully a happy
    New Year!
    
    Lee
    

    
    The DECcolorwriter 520ic is a great printer. It also comes with a
    certificate good for a free copy of Corel Draw V4. Good choice John!
    
    It was the number 1 printer in its class in a recent Byte magazine
    review beating out the HP 540 soundly. We are in the process of
    switching a number of HP 540 customers over to this printer at the
    moment through our distribution partners - even some real HP printer
    bigots who have tried the 520ic are convinced of its superiority and
    are now buying our printer rather than HP's.
    
    We do advertise it in the computer shopper where a very large percentage of
    all the desktop printers in the market are sold from.
    
    Thanks for the feedback (both good and bad), I'm passing it back to the
    retail printer folks in C&P.
    
    -Joe
    

    
    my only ? is......how do i get a printer and pc into the christmas
    stocking hanging on the fireplace???
    
    hornet
    

    Someone better get to lechmere, because I was there saturday and the
    salesdroid trashed the 520 and said he used it to show how much better
    the HP540 was. Not knowing much about this printer I could not contest
    what he said. On a better note I was there to buy a dot matrix color
    printer and asked about the epson and one other and he recommended
    the LA65 as the best value, which I bought as a gift for someone.
    Now that I know about the pricing on the 520 I may buy that if the
    LA65 is to slow.
    
    Saul

    What about ink cartridges and replacement parts.  I also am interested
    in buying a printer but am worried about the incremental costs.  You
    can HP stuff everyware and on sale.  I have also been told that we
    change the parts and cartridges every couple of years so I may be
    paying premium prices in a couple of years.
    
    Dan

    While this isn't the place to pick on the printer, I didn't get a
    Digital printer since it has only composite black.  Is that true
    or was I confused?
    
    				-John

    RE: compUSA price
    
    actually, if you go to the "corporate Sales Desk" (aka the service
    desk) with your purchases, and show them your badge, they will give you
    a price with is 12% abouve their cost. I was there with friends a week
    ago. Software sale priced at $40+ was $31 after the discount. A western
    Digital disk was almost $100 less after the discount (and I might add,
    the shelf price was just slightly higher then the mailorder price)
    
    Deb

        re: .6  Composite Black

    The printer can be run with a black only cartridge which is both
    efficient and cheap!  (Most folks who want color, end up doing mostly
    black so this model lets you use a color cartridge or a black one.)  

    Our employee special printers are pretty good.  I'd ask you to look at
    Note 3561.4 for a list of their features as well as a comparison of
    what we have against the competition.

    As far as expense goes, the 520 only requires an ink replacement.  The
    HP requires a new print head each time the ink runs out!!  I highly
    recommend you read 3561.4 before dismissing our products...

Note that if you want black with "spot of color" you end up with composite
black - just like on the HP 540.  Other printers, such as the Canon BJC-4000
or BJC-600E, have "CMYK" - color and true black at the same time.

				Steve

  Are some of the Digital color inkjet  series actually made by Olivetti ?
  I think some of these same  Olivetti models are also sold by 
  Texas Instruments as  their  'microMarc' color printer series ?

  

    All of our current inkjet printers are based on Olivetti models. This
    arrangement with Olivetti has been successful for C&P in several ways.
    We do a great Accessories and Supplies business with Olivetti
    manufactured supplies.

Well, I'm glad to see a Digital color inkjet doing well, at a good price. I
bought an Epson Stylus several months ago for considerably more. I saw the DEC
printers, but I was specifically in the market for one that can connect to both
PC and Mac at the same time, which the Epson does (now that they finally got
their Mac drivers out!). So my addition to the color PC wishlist for
engineering: Mac compatibility as well (make it an option if you think it's too
expensive).

    
    my only question is, why do we have EPP if its cheaper on the street?

    
    Not sure if it was the same printer, but some DEC Colorwriter was
    being sold on QVC last week.
    
    (QVC for those outside the US, is the upscale cable-tv shopping
    channel)
    
    

    
      Just picked up a 520ic @ Office Max, $299 , no rebate offer on this 
    model (although there is on the 110, 65 & laser1150). I've had a
    rain-check in for it at Lechemere's @ $319.50 for over a week.
    Will print on black or color cartridge remove/replace required.
    Color cartridge replacment ~$25, black much cheaper.
    Definite good deal. They had 1 left in Nashua....Lechmere wont
    predict when shipments will arrive.
    
    mike
    
    
    

    This is really upsetting, I just bought this printer from EPP for
    $319, and now find out I could get it at OfficeMax or CompUSA for
    $279?  I guess I shouldn't have assumed EPP was a good deal!!!

    EPP needs a serious upgrade... like to 50% off at a minimum.  
    
    With salaries frozen for awhile and raises coming only every few 
    years, it would be nice to see some other benefits of working for 
    a computer company come our way.  EPP could consider giving us a deal
    on diskettes, print cartridges, other supplies, etc., too.  
    
    Does anyone know how to get to EPP decision-makers?
    
    I was very pleased to see this note as I'm considering buying 
    a color printer and I was thinking about the really expensive Epson 
    (for the color quality).  But for $299... I can get interested in 
    this one!
    
    -j
                                                    

You get a general 20% discount on anything in the PC catalog.  (Unfortunately,
I found that they make up for this by double-billing my credit card when
I bought my PC last month.  I went for a week without use of my card and
had several merchants very upset with me because of this avoidable bungle.)

					Steve

    20% isn't good enough.  I can beat DEC-minus-20% almost anywhere
    and not have to pay shipping and wait for it.  Not to mention the
    screw-ups like getting double-billed or (when I bought my PC) no
    at-the-factory integration of options (because I'm an employee, they
    wouldn't do the integration for me; I guess being an employee makes me 
    automatically soooo much more capable of installing CDs and QIC tapes
    than the rest of the world); I tell you... if I have to take out those 
    little screws one more time, I'm going to...)
    
    50%.  Or more.  That's what we need to make it a real benefit.
    
    
                  

Janet, you just don't have the right frame of mind.  The EPP is not a benefit,
it's a training program to show employees what kind of hassle "real" 
customers get put through trying to buy from Digital.

				Steve

                .21 -- a true classic.  Thanks, Steve!! :-) :-)

    
    
    OfficeMax in S. Bruno near SFO has the 520ic for $299.99,
    but I am disappointed to be told that it does not support 
    Apple Macs... what a bummer!  
    
    Is this true??? If yes, I wish the Printer Div/Seg will simply
    make ANY Digital printer work with ANY PC (Intel/Apple/IBM PS's
    whatever) - how much more 'engineering', packaging, marketing
    cost would it be? Will this strategy not be profitable for Digital?
    
    
    

    Along the same lines, I saw 2 of the new Digital PC's rolling out the
    door of Sam's Club in Irvine, CA, yesterday, and the clerk in that
    department said they were selling rather briskly.  Also said that the
    customers seem to love our very friendly demo on the shelf units.
    
    M.
    

    [Having huffily and incorrectly asserted that all Digital printers were
     Macintosh compatible in a note a while back, I suppose I should
     acknowledge my red face before replying. At the time of that topic, I
     was thinking of laser printers. It was very politely pointed out to me
     by the person I was replying to that one of our most competitive products
     (the '520ic) was not able to be directly connected to a Macintosh.]
                        
    The "personal" (a.k.a. "quick-and-dirty", but in the *good* sense) side
    of the business concentrates on the largest target markets for good and
    necessary reasons. Often, it is what our vendor supplies us with and
    how much they will charge us for it that makes the most difference.
    
    C&P has known for years about how much cost adding just a little thing
    like another communications port can burden a commodity product. Would
    the '520ic be as great a deal if it were say $30-$50 more for a
    LocalTalk option? Or how about $75 more with a discounted GDT
    PowerPrint product for Macintosh users? It is very likely it would end
    up *not* being profitable, or even break-even-make-it-up-on-cartridges.
    Maintaining two separate models (a la HP Deskwriter vs. Deskjet lines)
    has its own costs when your volumes are low. And we've done enough loss
    leaders for now. :-}
    
    I don't like it, either. I believe we can and have the technology to
    make bigger inroads into the Macintosh space. But I also am coming
    around to agreeing that Hardcopy needs to get bigger overall before we
    can be really successful marketing *personal* (i.e. "small") products
    to the Macintosh space. 

    
    Well, I was one of the test cases, that actually bought the DEC520ic
    through EPP. I'm having trouble getting it to work. I got my parallel
    interface cable from Radio Shack (on the way home). I've now tried it
    on my DECpcLPx (personal) and on my DECpc320P (company owned), and 
    have not been able to print to it. Have tried the hints from the
    manual and the test files to print. Am taking it into work, tomorrow
    to try it on one of our PC's there. Don't know if it the cable or
    what.
    
    Hope regular buyers aren't having problems.
    
    Randy
    
    

    
    Printer works fine in the office, of course !!
    
    

    does this printer work off a macintosh/newton?
    
    /los

    
    Well, messed around alittle more with the 520ic here at home.
    
    Problem fixed,  Problem was "Loose nut controlling the keyboard".
    
    Randy
    
    

    Re.-.1 > Problem was "Loose nut controlling the keyboard".

Was this a 'hardware' problem or an 'android' type problem ?

;> ;> ;>
    

    In reponse to the pricing of the DECcolorwriter 520ic in the Employee
    Purchase Program:

    When the printer offer was put together for EPP, the list price was
    $425 and the street price was $399 -- so the EPP price was a good deal.
    Since then, the street price dropped to about $299.  This price drop
    was the direct result of an incentive promotion Digital is offering
    retailers to stock up on the 520ic.  This pricing change has made the
    EPP price of $319 uncompetitive and as a result, we will be lowering the
    EPP price to $289, effective 12/27/94.  You can verify the change has
    been made in the system by typing VTX price and entering LJ520-EP.  

    Several comments were made about the EPP 20% off discount not being
    attractive -- the 4 four printers that are offered in the Holiday
    Special are all well below 20% off list price.

    CorelDraw is not currently offered with the purchase of the 520 as
    mentioned in a previous note.  The CorelDraw 3.0 is free with the
    purchase of a DECwriter 500i (a distribution only product).  Business 
    Builders software is being bundled with both the DECwriter 100 and the
    DECcolorwriter 520ic.  The software is a sampler (limited functionality)
    Desktop publishing package and is included right in the box with the 
    printer.


    Kate Gardner
    Marketing Manager
    Desktop Printers

And for those people like me who bought a 520ic during the last few weeks at 
$319, from the VTX DESKTOP (EPP) infobase comes:

 > PRICE PROTECTION

 > Repricing requests for price decreases which occur within 30 days of
 > the shipment/invoice date must be made in writing to AIMHI::EPP or
 > EPP @MKO.  Requests for price protection must reference your badge
 > number/DEC#, and be made within 60 days of the price decrease.

- Jim

    Sorry for the dots (..) this keyboard at a field office won't shift the
    period or comma keys for some reason. :-(
    
    ..Several comments were made about the EPP 20% off discount not being
    ..attractive -- the 4 four printers that are offered in the Holiday
    ..Special are all well below 20% off list price.
    
    Come on, list price is a farce. Take a look at HP's "list prices" some
    time. I've NEVER seen an HP product for sale at ANY dealer at, or even
    near, "list price". Street price is ALL that counts. Why would I want
    to put up with trying to place (and track!) an order via the Digital
    maze of crosslinked phone systems to try to save $10? (BUT, says
    Digital, you saved over $100 off of "list" price. Who cares?) I could
    just as easily stop in at CompUSA and have it *today* for an extra $10.
    (It might even cost less in total, does Digital charge shipping on EPP
    items?)
    
    I tried to buy a laser printer from Digital in January. Got the run
    around. One phone call to Sunshine Computers in Florida got me a HP
    LaserJet4 for $1350 (Best price in Houston at the time was $1480). It
    arrived 5 days later. No hassle, no run around, no endless
    "when-will-it-ship" phone calls. (BTW, HP's "list price at the time was
    around $2,000 for this printer).
    
    ..CorelDraw is not currently offered with the purchase of the 520 as
    ..mentioned in a previous note.  The CorelDraw 3.0 is free with the
    ..purchase of a DECwriter 500i (a distribution only product).  Business 
    
    Since CorelDraw is currently shipping at version 5 (or perhaps higher)
    we certainly aren't giving away anything awesome. :-(
    
    Harry
    

    
    I just bought a 520ic for $287, including taxes.  CorelDraw was
    included in the deal.  Had I not been able to get that deal, I'd have
    bought an HP.
    
    Bruce
               

     re - tim lasko (hardcopy engineering) and
    	  kate gardner (desktop printer marketing)
    
     Topic: APPLE SUPPOST as STANDARD offering
    
    	I fully appreciate that "nothing is free or easy" in offering
        multiple i/f for printers as Tim as written a few replies past.
    	I am curious if in fact there has been a meaningful and thorough
    	market research (facts based) to evaluate whether it'd make sense
    	(broadening limited offering of LOWCOST printers for Apples, market
    	penetration, profits, Apple buyers demographics etc ?) for all 
    	desktop Digital printers (especially the new ones) to support 
        at least Apple and Intel/DOS by default? 
    
    	In the Apple market, it would appear to me the printer offerings
    	are quite monopolistic, and buyers tend to be penalized (more $$) 
     	buying one for MacOS. So maybe armed with good factual market data, 
    	the Printer BU can determine whether with correct products and 
    	savvy marketing, Digital can be a 'big fish in the Apple pond' or 
    	remains another 'little fish in the DOS pond'. 
    
    	My gut feel (sorry no market data) is Digital is missing out by
    	not offering both options. BTW from my casual observation of Apple 
        vs DOS purchasers, the Apple ones tend to be more affluent [except
    	myself, of course :-(], computer literate and serious business users 
    	(have no tolerant to wasting time configuring and fiddling with 
    	 HW, DOS or Windows!).
    		
    
    	Personally I am VERY disappointed [in fact feel a bit discriminated
    	against :-)] that I cannot purchase this product from my own
        company simply because I have Apple Macs, and not DOS systems.
    
    	I sincerely would like to propose that the desktop printer
    	group revisit their decision.
                                     
    	- Ashikin
    	    
    	 

    Re: .36                         
    
    Digital expects one thing from the Hardcopy LOB: continue making money.
    
    The LOB has decided not to just milk the cash cows until they dry and
    instead aggressively pursue several areas. (It would be presumptive of
    me to go into details here.) There has been and continues to be
    business analysis, market research, customer focus interviews, and more
    to keep track of the trends in the hardcopy business. In some of the
    areas being pursued, support for Apple platforms will be important. In
    others, it just won't make business sense. 
    
    The ability for Hardcopy to provide support for all platforms on all
    products, with technical excellence to challenge existing market
    leaders and provide superior support, and make money while doing so, is
    doubtful at this stage.
    
    Those products we sell that work across Windows-based and MacOS
    platforms (and networks) do very well. Our ability to satisfy
    cross-network and cross-platform printing requirements is one of our
    undercredited strengths. It's safe to say that we can build on that.
    LocalTalk-based color inkjets for the personal or SOHO user (which is
    where this discussion started)?  Maybe--if we can OEM one cheaply
    enough so that it can make a profit, too. If not, we don't.

                                <<< Note 3587.33 by DPDMAI::HARDMAN >>>
                                                            -< Realitycheck! >-
    
       >Sorry for the dots (..) this keyboard at a field office won't shift
      >the period or comma keys for some reason. :-(
    
    	Harry - don't ya just love PC keyboards!  I find that holding
    down "Alt" with the shift-, or shift-. gets you the "<" or ">"...
    
    		Dick
    

re: .33 - Coreldraw 3.0

Coreldraw V3.0 may be a bit old now - but it's the most stable version of
the product in the past 3 years, and it is a simpler version than V4 or V5.
Its a great product and if it's free it's a real bargain.

	Al

    RE: .22... Steve, I haven't been in the notesfile for a few days and
    must saw your comments; they are, indeed, classic.
    
    You know, thinking back a year or so to when I got my PC and the
    conversations I had with tech support to figure out how to install all
    my gizmos (and complaining about the difficulty of it), I remember them 
    saying "We don't build these PCs for the home market; people in the 
    business environment are used to the small screws, less-than-useful 
    documentation, etc."  And I wondered at the time if maybe, just maybe, 
    *the business folks* might like something a whole lot easier to work 
    with, too.  
    
    I know this isn't the topic of this note, but it seems we forget on a
    regular basis that "Digital" isn't some entity that has nothing to
    do with us as individuals.  WE ARE IT and IT IS US.  Every product,
    every feature, every problem happens because of something we did or 
    didn't do, not something "Digital" did or didn't do.  And the
    individuals out there buying our stuff (or not buying it) are remarkably 
    like us and want the same things we want, generally.    
    
    And I'm going to check out the $299 printer but... from what everyone
    tells me, the HP printers hook up and run on our PCs with absolutely no
    problems.  And that's really what is going to matter to me and,
    apparently, to lots and lots of others.
    
    Happy Holidays!
    
    -j
    
    

RE .38 - Hey, thanks!!!! I haven't been able to get ><><><'s in a DECterm since
we upgraded eXcursion! I've had to use the LSE SpecIns (insert special
character) sequence to do them in C source code. This is despite the fact that
the keyboard mappings I can find say that Shift-. is ">" (notice that I *can*
get <'s and >'s in the DEC Notes window interface).

RE Mac support for printers: I must say that I find the Apple's printer
interface hideously proprietary. I don't know the details of their print
protocols, but would it be possible to build a little black box that would
connect to the Mac printer port on one side and output to a PC-style parallel or
serial interface on the other? Is it simply a matter of electrical/connector
conversion, or are there print commands that have to be translated inside the
box, or in a driver? Such a box might instantly make all PC printers
Mac-compatible. Digital might be able to sell quite a few of them!

    Re: .41
    
    Short answer: GDT SoftWorks makes a product called PowerPrint which 
    consists of a Macintosh printer driver that produces PCL, ESC/P2, or
    whatever is needed and a LocalTalk to Parallel cable. Some details are
    in the MACINTOSH conference. It is relatively popular for people who
    need that capability.

Thanks, Atlant sent me some mail explaining what was going on. Like I said to
him, my definition here of "proprietary/open" is the consumer definition: if
you're the only one who builds something, it's proprietary, no matter how open
it is! I think a lot of people feel this way, which is why we can talk ourselves
blue in the face about open vs. proprietary and people completely ignore it. Get
hundreds of vendors to join you, and voila, your proprietary system/software is
now magically "open".

    Okay, I can understand that definition, but I'm trying to think of what
    relevant piece that only one person builds in the subject at hand. I
    can think of about twelve vendors of Macintosh-compatible printers off
    the top of my head--I don't know how many cable vendors there are, but
    I can get cheap cables at any store. If you've got a parallel only
    printer, there's at least one company that provides the doohickey to
    connect the two. Um, what's non-open? (Ah, it's a perception thing...
    that I can understand, too.)
    
    I can't hook up my steam powered calliope to my Macintosh either, but I
    think that's not an issue of openness, either. :-)

    No, the DECcolorwriter 120ic is slower (~180cps draft) and only has one
    fixed tray. It has a 128KB print buffer, not 8KB. The two inkjet
    DECcolorwriter models share the same ink cartridges.