| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 3416.1 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Wed Sep 28 1994 13:51 | 9 |
| Yes, we do it. We've been at it longer than any of the companies
mentioned. I don't know if we have specific people assigned to
follow newsgroups, but we do have people who do it on their own
(me, for example) and who try to make sure that issues get resolved.
We also have a very good Internet server (WWW and FTP) with more
product information than Dell, IBM and Microsoft put together.
Steve
|
| 3416.2 | just look at our Inet number | CGOOA::BARNABE | Guy Barnabe - Digital Canada | Thu Sep 29 1994 01:31 | 6 |
| and someone can correct me but we have a class "A" network address
which I believe is "16".... all I can say is "eat your heart out".
-- cheers,
Guy
|
| 3416.3 | Need to talk to customers | EEMELI::SIREN | | Thu Sep 29 1994 04:01 | 11 |
|
But do customers really know about it? We can be good internally,
but it doesn't help, if people who make purchase decisions, don't know.
How about preparing a broschure 'Digital & Internet' or something like
that. Or perhaps there is one, but we in the field just don't know....
I looked our video presentation 'Glimpse of the future'. It's good, but
we need something to leave to customers as well.
--Ritva
|
| 3416.4 | How bout a positive note! | MPGS::CWHITE | Parrot_Trooper | Thu Sep 29 1994 07:50 | 28 |
| Previous note by Rivta (Nice to see you in notes, did Ron get in
touch?) about sharing information. There probably is information
such as the stuff Rivta asked for. But where is it? Maybe the problem
is not information sharing....maybe the problem is information release
from ONE LOCATION????????
What about establishing TWO Home pages.......one for INFORMATION *.*
and the other cor COMMUNICATION *.* (you know, all the not secret
stuff)!
We need to eliminate all the "I didn't know thats" or the time wasted
in securing that information.
I believe if we tackled this chore, we'd immediately find out
just how much information there was in this company, and if we
got our arms around coolating and sorting and presenting it, then
we probably could lead the market in the process....??
All I know is that with the products that are being designed in SHR
for Interactive Information Servers.....the toughest part of the
customer's job is to sort/manipulate and present the information.
P.S. Stay tuned for our home page....coming soon, it will have
a narative avout the product with video clips of the seminars
that were given. And it will start to really 'WALK THE TALK' of
what digital and specifically VIIS is all about!
chet
|
| 3416.5 | | PERLE::glantz | Mike, Paris Research Lab, 776-2836 | Thu Sep 29 1994 08:20 | 5 |
| The problems discussed here aren't new. There's work underway to
improve our external WWW pages. Given the track record of the people
doing the work, I'm very optimistic. These folks are very receptive to
constructive suggestions, and have acted quickly on quite a few of
them. See SOFBAS::INTERNET_TOOLS for more discussion.
|
| 3416.6 | Essential, accurate, now... | EEMELI::SIREN | | Thu Sep 29 1994 09:02 | 16 |
| Re. .4
Yes, Ron sent a mail. I'll return with more questions, when I have gone
through all of the material I have now.
What comes to the rest of your reply, I totally agree with you. A
huge part of the sales cost in this company is coming from the time we
need to search/get information to be able to sell. My translation to
reasons is, that we have partly trusted too much on electronic mail and
notes type deliveries, partly we have too many people, who believe,
that they can build a global business while building their own small
secret empires. Information channels must be as direct as possible with
ACCURATE, UP TO DATE facts material to be read by busy people, who
need to follow lots of fast changing business material.
--Ritva
|
| 3416.7 | | MROA::SRINIVASAN | | Fri Sep 30 1994 11:28 | 20 |
|
DECies buy Gateway ? Sure-- I have one and I am happy about it. From
the notes file IBMPC-94, you will many DECies own Gateway PCs and they
all seems to be happy about it.
The reason I bought the gateway :
1. Price ( Gateway was cheaper ) inspite of 20% employee discount.
2. They had the P5/60 available in Octber 93. DEC P5/60 was
announced several months later ( Market timing !! )
I have owned a Gateway PC for nearly a year now and I have not had
any major problems.
Their Hotline support is not all that great, but it is another rat
hole..
|
| 3416.8 | | PCBUOA::LEFEBVRE | PCBU Asia/Pacific Marketing | Fri Sep 30 1994 13:32 | 10 |
| <<< Note 3416.7 by MROA::SRINIVASAN >>>
> 2. They had the P5/60 available in Octber 93. DEC P5/60 was
> announced several months later ( Market timing !! )
The DECpc XL 560 was announced November 8, 1993.
Mark.
|
| 3416.9 | | MROA::SRINIVASAN | | Fri Sep 30 1994 14:08 | 10 |
| > The DECpc XL 560 was announced November 8, 1993.
What was the delivery date ? Immediate availability or program
announcement ?
Talking about market timing, Can you please tell me when DEC PCs will
be available with 740MB and 1GB IDE drives ? It is available through
other vendors for sometime ( 3+ months ) now.
|
| 3416.10 | aside... | SPECXN::LEITZ | butch leitz | Fri Sep 30 1994 16:38 | 10 |
| I had somebody mention to me (upon reading the blurb that VNS posted
about a DECcie buying Gateway) that if we had a decent employee purchase
program where we *really* discounted for employee purchases, you'd
probably have *alot* of customers, not just digits, but those who digits
sold (the idea of them) to. If we sold our own people on them, maybe
we'd sell even more of them externally too.
But alas, I fear this is yet another {black,rat} hole.
I'm a Gateway owner too.
|
| 3416.11 | what if | CSC32::D_RODRIGUEZ | Midnight Falcon ... | Mon Oct 03 1994 00:40 | 17 |
| re. -.10
Seeing that one of our VPs is on the internet and has already
stated that he was happy with his non-DEC pc...
I wonder what effect it would have on Digital if all the deccies
who bought a non-DEC pc went on the internet saying "Yes, I
bought a <3rd_party_pc> instead of one from Digital." Even
employees who have bought our PCs could say why they went with
Digital's line (although the Digital vs. the non-Digital ratio
may be a telling story in itself).
Then, see if anyone from Digital (including our value-conscious
VP) reacts to the postings with better pc discounting for its
employees.
(Probably wouldn't be the "Digital" thing to do, though ...)
|
| 3416.12 | Digatal's Home Page | BXCPST::FINLY::kaminsky | | Wed Oct 05 1994 17:38 | 39 |
| I believe that Digital was one of the first companies to have a home
page on the Internet. Yesterday I did some comparison shopping with
some co-workers.
I would recommend that Digital Marketing people do likewise.
Sun: http://www.sun.com
IBM: http://www.ibm.com
HP: http://www.hp.com
While we may have been first, we have not brought our home page up to
the current standards of the industry, at least with regard to product
information.
We have a product catalog dated February 1994 (this is probably
where most people would tend to look for product information). The
trick is that we also have a section called product update or something
like that. This is where most of the current products are located, i.e.
you can't find Sable in our catalog, it is only in the update.
It seems a rather confusing structure, especially when compared to the
competition.
The internet could be a tremendous method of communicating
product information to customers as well as our own sales force. When
looking for specific data on a product, by going on-line you should be
assured of getting the latest info. If hardcopy is needed, simply
print out the portion of the data you need.
This will only work if it is easy to manuever around our catalog.
There is tremendous opportunity here if we harness the technology.
|
| 3416.13 | Don't lose momentum | KOALA::HAMNQVIST | | Wed Oct 05 1994 19:36 | 10 |
| While in VTX engineering we used to receive endless beating regarding
information always being out of date. Many blamed this on the product
itself. And here we are, 10 years later, with a new implementation of
the same technology .. now we can even get color pictures out of date :-)
I guess those who learned the VTX lesson must have left. I definitely
agree with the previous author: if we do not capitalize on this
opportunity we'll lose credibility as The Internet Company.
>Per
|
| 3416.14 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Wed Oct 05 1994 20:24 | 13 |
| The characterization in .12 is completely baseless. The information
on the Internet server is up to date - it gets added to every few
days. I've looked at Sun and IBM's servers - they may be prettier
but they don't have the depth of information.
The organization and presentation of our server definitely needs work,
and I'm told that's happening.
If you are looking for a specific topic, use the search capability.
Just using the keyword "2100", I came up with over a dozen
relevant articles.
Steve
|
| 3416.15 | It should be simple for us simple users | EEMELI::SIREN | | Thu Oct 06 1994 04:00 | 10 |
| Re .14
You shouldn't say, that .12 is baseless. That's probably, how many of
our customers experience it. It's that, what counts, not only how much
information you can find, when you are a capable enough user.
We do have a risk in Internet to build our information there the same
way it's available internally ... and that's messy and expensive.
--Ritva
|
| 3416.16 | unimaginative | ANNECY::HUMAN | I came, I saw, I conked out | Thu Oct 06 1994 06:25 | 9 |
| to say the elast our home page is dull, lifeless and lacking "flair".
It may be functional however.
It always strikes me as written by engineers for engineers (sound
familiar?).
I don't doubt there may be someone somewhere "looking at the problem"
martin-who-is-trying-to-promote-more-use-of-www-here
|
| 3416.17 | Marketing, marketing, marketing...... | MPGS::CWHITE | Parrot_Trooper | Thu Oct 06 1994 07:58 | 16 |
| maybe here's a spot that could use a little 'marketing' influence?
And I hope that the new 'Internet Group' is doing some up front
customer engagement to get an idea as to what is acceptable in
the way of presentation. If this is the way that many people will
first be exposed to Digital, it shold be splashy, yet functional
to meet the needs/requirements of the majority if the internet user
community. For the folks that just aquired the skillset to even
get out on the wire, (you would be amazed at what it takes to get
there sometimes) it would be disappointing to fine something less
than spectacular.
And the final say so as to whether it meets the eye, should come from
External people, not internal people.
chet
|
| 3416.18 | | CFSCTC::SMITH | Tom Smith TAY2-1/L7 dtn 227-3236 | Thu Oct 06 1994 09:33 | 16 |
| re: .14
Yes, Steve, it does get added to. But it doesn't seem to get "deleted
from" and it doesn't get "revised" uniformly. There are product/program
announcements and papers for things that never were and never will be
products; whitepapers, etc., on outdated versions of products; SPDs
that are a few months out-of-date; etc.
It needs maintenance that I suspect Russ & Co. are not staffed to
provide. If there were an easy way for those of us who discover these
things to flag them to Russ, maybe that would help him out? Or maybe it
would just leave him with the problem of trying to find out who's
authorized to make the change, if anyone.
-Tom
|
| 3416.19 | work is indeed being done... | NRSTAR::HORGAN | Tim Horgan | Thu Oct 06 1994 10:00 | 27 |
| re: our front page and contents
Work is underway to improve both. We have several proposed page designs
that are being evaluated (and which should be online next week for
folks to comment on). The goal is to have a new interface by the end of
this month.
We are also working on the contents. Today this is a partially manual
process (if you can imagine given the volume), and work is being done
to tie it into (initially) the Integrated Repository. This was funded
just recently, but is now well underway.
We are also working on other tools to make it easier to provide
information, to create "Web information centers" for specific markets,
better search tools, getting started guides and other tools needed to
get more folks onto the Web/Internet.
Stay tuned! Let me know if you have questions, we'd be glad to answer
them. (The supporting engineering plan is online at
http://nrsta2.mro.dec.com/web/web_services.html (via lynx or mosaic) or
at nrsta2::user05:[horgan.public]web_994.ps). The overall strategy was
presented and discussed at the recent WWW Conference in LJO. We are
also holding a series of Technical Seminars on Web technologies which
will be announced soon.)
Tim Horgan
|
| 3416.20 | Take a Look at These... | HLDE01::VUURBOOM_R | Roelof Vuurboom @ APD, DTN 829 4066 | Thu Oct 06 1994 10:26 | 13 |
| To me functional in this context almost equates with ease of
use and simple to follow.
Three web servers which have struck me as being particularly well
thought out in terms of ease of use and understandibility are
those of cisco, hp and novell. My suggestion would be to go
steal some ideas from these (after all its public :-).
If you combine the best ideas from just these 3 you'll have a
real smasher.
re roelof
|
| 3416.22 | there now | NRSTAR::HORGAN | Tim Horgan | Thu Oct 06 1994 10:54 | 9 |
| re: .-1
The file nrsta2::user05:[horgan.public]web_994.ps is now there and
available.
The system nrsta2 is having problems today. The system managers are
well aware of the problem and are trying to fix it.
Tim
|
| 3416.23 | Plz change privilege | GLDOA::RAO | R. V. Rao | Thu Oct 06 1994 11:02 | 8 |
|
re -.1
Tim,
I get insufficient privilege message when I attempt to copy.
RV
|
| 3416.24 | Stuck in first gear | FILTON::WHITE_I | In need of a haircut | Thu Oct 06 1994 17:09 | 9 |
|
With more interest in the NET we'll get our own VP. Will his contract
specify surfboard or simply a mailbox at a swish bank. His first task,
better access, bouncing round an increasingly slower easynet before I
get out to the web, well........
Ian #: )
|
| 3416.25 | re: .14 | BXCSRV::FINLY::kaminsky | | Fri Oct 07 1994 12:18 | 29 |
| I was not really addressing the fact that our information is or is not
up to date in my note. This is not really the question. I do believe
that more than likely the current information is there.
I was more talking about the structure of the home page.
For example:
Say I am interested in buying a nice workstation. It is not easy
to go into our home page and quickly get to our workstation offerings
arranged in a logical, easy to access manner. My earlier point,
that some of the offerings would be found in the catalog, and some would
be found in the update is a confusing structure. Compare that now to our
competition. By pressing one button, you can quickly see the range of
workstation offerings (even pictures of them). All offerings are right
there for you to look at.
This home page must be designed such that someone that has never bought
anything from Digital can go in there and at least find out what we're
offering.
It is too easy to say that it is all there when you stop to realize that
internal people understand our complicated method of presenting products
and can therefore find the information. I would be willing to bet we
don't sell a lot of volume to Digital employees (the ones that tend to
understand the way we work).
|
| 3416.26 | details need some work | WRKSYS::SCHUMANN | UHF computers | Fri Oct 07 1994 13:18 | 6 |
| I just tried the www sys-and-options-catalogue (why isn't it just "Catalog"?).
Actually I tried the supplement. I looked at the Digital 2100 Server A500M
document. It's postscript, takes a looong time to come up, and then (on
a VAX!) displays with the right edge of each page cut off. Sigh...
--RS
|
| 3416.27 | Seems to be working for Microsoft! :-) | DPDMAI::HARDMAN | Sucker for what the cowgirls do... | Fri Oct 07 1994 13:48 | 10 |
| So why can't Digital bring in a few "Joe and Jane Average" type users
and set up a useability lab? I know, we could offer them a few cookies
and monitor their frustrations as they try to access our home page.
With that info in hand, we can make our stuff easier for the average
person to use.
Nah! Makes too much sense. ;-)
Harry
|
| 3416.28 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Fri Oct 07 1994 16:30 | 9 |
| How many times do people have to say that the usability *IS* being worked
on?
I easily found several articles about the 2100 series just by searching
for "2100". The SOC is fine when you want to learn about all the
configurations possible, but the Infosheets are the most useful product
introduction.
Steve
|
| 3416.29 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Fri Oct 07 1994 16:31 | 5 |
| Oh, the DECdirect catalog is probably the most "accessible" source of
information on the 2100. A pilot is online now, but it's last spring's
edition - it's in the process of being updated.
Steve
|
| 3416.30 | RE: .28 | BXCPST::FINLY::kaminsky | | Fri Oct 07 1994 17:30 | 14 |
| A might touchy aren't we?
I am glad that you find it so easy to find all of the information you
are looking for on Digital's home page.
BTW, How were we supposed to know that all of this great improvement
in useability is being worked on?
The fact still remains that at this time, IMHO, it it not AS useable as our
competitions.
|
| 3416.31 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Fri Oct 07 1994 22:08 | 3 |
| I guess you didn't read .19.
Steve
|
| 3416.32 | Web overview seminar | NRSTA2::HORGAN | Tim Horgan | Sat Oct 08 1994 18:42 | 81 |
| fyi, Web seminar referenced in .19:
/\
/ /\
/ / \
/ / TECHNICAL COMPETENCY
\ \ DEVELOPMENT GROUP
\ \ /
\ \/
\/
TCDG Technical Seminar Program Description
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title Introduction to the World Wide Web
________________________________________________________________________________
Speaker Tim Horgan
Date 27-OCT-94 - 27-OCT-94
Time 09:00 - 11:00
Location Harbor Conf. Room, LKG2-1
Course Number TSTWW-01
Registration Although there is no charge for this seminar,
we request that you regitster. Please log into
COURSES software on MILRAT. Username is COURSES
and password is TRAINING.
Cancellation Please withdraw if you cannot attend so that
someone else may attend in your place.
DESCRIPTION
You have heard a lot in the press recently about the Internet and
the World Wide Web, and you have been wondering what it is and if
Digital is involved. This seminar will help answer those questions,
and will get you started using these valuable resources yourself!
This seminar is an introduction to the World Wide Web and how
Digital uses it. We will provide an overview of the basic concepts
and technology that makes the Web possible, and will show you some
of the Web-based services that are available today. We will also
provide you with information on how to get online to the Web
within Digital.
This is an introductory seminar intended for people who have heard
about the World Wide Web and the Internet and want to learn more
about how these services might help them do their work.
OBJECTIVES
* present a brief overview of the Internet
* provide an overview of the World Wide Web
* present an overview of World Wide Web technology and concepts
* introduce you to some of the information available on the Web
* provide information on how to get online
PREREQUISITES
This seminar is geared for the novice. Some knowledge of the
Internet is helpful, but not critical.
INTENDED AUDIENCE
Technical audience (engineers, managers and consultants) with
no prior Web experience.
SPEAKER
Tim Horgan is a Software Engineering Manager with Digital's Web
Services Group. He has been involved in several large-scale
information access projects for use at several of our
largest customers as well as for internal use. Prior to joining
the Web Services Group he was a Senior Consultant to GM's C4
Integration Program. Prior to that he was a member of Digital's
CALS/Concurrent Engineering program, ESG Systems Engineering and
the High Performance Systems CAE group. Tim has over sixteen years
experience in distributed systems development.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technical Competency Development Group
|
| 3416.33 | Here's a customer suggesting we have someone formally following newsgroups | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Fri Oct 21 1994 12:34 | 77 |
| Article 45992 of comp.os.vms:
Path: jac.zko.dec.com!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!caen!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au!jonathan
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,vmsnet.misc
Subject: "Digital, are you listening?!" ... Some thoughts.
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 21 Oct 94 12:32:32 +1000
Organization: The University of Melbourne
Lines: 64
Xref: jac.zko.dec.com comp.os.vms:45992 vmsnet.misc:2196
It is not uncommon in groups such as comp.os.vms and vmsnet.* to hear the
passionate plea: "Digital, are you listening??!!!", most particularly with
respect to some aspect of VMS or associated products.
The real problem too often seems to be one of corporate, rather than individual
employee "deafness". The fact that particular Digital employees listen on these
Internet channels is to be applauded and their responses acknowledged with much
gratitude! However, it should be possible for Digital to do much better.
I would like to suggest that Digital *officially* charge one or (preferably)
several employees with the task of scrutinizing these groups for gems of insight
(they _are_ there) and for the very obvious common mind, at times, of the user
community. There is *immense* business advantage for Digital in doing this!!!
Such employees, I think, necessarily would need a strong background in Digital
product development and product management. They must have or be given direct
access to engineering _and_ management. The current UNofficial Digital
contributions from such people as Steve Lionel and Hein van den Heuvel (to name
two of the most respected) are indicative of the knowledge and position required
as well as (importantly) the respect and appreciation Digital needs to have of
the user community - *we ARE Digital's future*! Some of us even know what we're
talking about and have eminently sensible contributions to make to VMS, etc..
All too often, VMS programmers (usually on the Internet) provide solutions to
problems that "bug" users the world over. Often, functionality that users have
_begged_ Digital to provide for *years* (and which Digital in true ostrich
fashion seems determined to ignore) is provided by full-time employees of other
organisations who cut the code "out of hours". These individuals even provide
support for their code that makes Digital look (at best) flat-footed.
The crucial point for many organisations though, is that users see solutions
from the user community which work, but which are *UNsupported by Digital*!
I am not suggesting here that such "non-Digital" code _should_ be supported by
Digital, but rather that if one person _outside_ Digital can provide a solution
to a deeply-felt need or problem of the VMS user community, *why can't
Digital*?!
A good example of this is the DCLCOMPLETE code - it is perhaps unwise to use
this code in a crucial production environment, BUT, *the basic functionality can
be achieved*. Requests for such functionality as command and filename
completion, generic re-direction and piping, and multiple commands per line are
made long and loud and _very_ frequently! This is just ONE (prominent and
currently discussed) example. Many others could be cited.
What, for instance, of VMS as a workstation (as opposed to a server) OS? Long
and loud are the cries for equal emphasis on the desktop and for application
development in *VMS* as well as OSF/1. Please, Digital, listen to those at the
coal face!
I occasionally get the feeling that Digital responds to particular user
community input with "that is not the VMS way". Yet, "the VMS way" is surely
one of excellence and functionality?
Digital, _are_ you listening? ...officially ...responsively ...responsibly ...
Very simply: You can't afford not to!
Jonathan.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jonathan Ridler, Telephone: +61 3 344 7994
Information Technology Services, Fax: +61 3 347 4803
The University of Melbourne, Internet: [email protected]
Parkville, Vic., AUSTRALIA, 3052. X.121: 050523343000305::jonathan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| 3416.34 | boy from Oz has a point | DPDMAI::EYSTER | Fluoride&Prozac/NoCavities/No prob! | Fri Oct 21 1994 13:40 | 20 |
| Don't you just HATE it when the customer is right? :^]
I'd say Johnathon hit the nail on the head clear across the board.
Unfortunately, he's probably whizzing into a high wind because:
1. What he's purporting, ie: 'official listening' is a non-rev
activity, which is a no-no.
2. Digital hasn't listened to its own developers and sales staff in
many cases...why listen to customers?
I *do* agree. The net is a good way to get public input (since I've
heard Decus attendance is dropping and the majority of us can't get
funded to go). If we could identify who to route specific issues to,
it wouldn't take much to have one person weed through and route to the
appropriate department...or for each engineering department to host a
conference or participate in one officially as Digital.
I'm not talkin' problem solving for free, but discussions on features
and development direction. Concept?
|
| 3416.35 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Fri Oct 21 1994 14:17 | 17 |
| Well, a lot of us DO do this sort of thing on an informal basis. I know that
if I see something that looks like trouble, I try to get in touch with
appropriate people to handle the problem. But I've got other work to do and
am not familiar with every product and every possible problem.
My take on it is that it's no good to just designate a couple of people to
watch newsgroups; EVERY product should have a designated person to watch
relevant newsgroups and, where appropriate, respond to inquiries. My
experience is that you don't want to get dragged into long discussions about
product features and futures, but an acknowledgement that an idea has been
"put on the list", and perhaps some indication of probability, would go a
long way.
I'd love to talk to someone in upper management about this, but the couple
of times I've put feelers out I've gotten no response.
Steve
|
| 3416.36 | ... Burn yourself or get Burnt? ... | CPDW::CIUFFINI | God must be a Gemini... | Fri Oct 21 1994 14:58 | 8 |
|
Steve,
Does this mean you're not doing "Whatever It Takes?"
Set smile/compressed: [|]
jc
|
| 3416.37 | | MSE1::PCOTE | Herculean efforts in progress | Fri Oct 21 1994 15:31 | 27 |
|
Interesting discussion and perhaps deserves it's own topic. I also
wondered what the 'official strategy' should be concerning news
groups. I too monitor a couple and quite often see Digital
(unofficial) represenstation via Steve and others. Kudos BTW
to those who do take an active interest.
I asked other individuals who are more privy to such matters
and the overwhelming response is that we do employ an official
Digital channel to the internet - called CompuServe.
Now, I never used CompuServe (probably will soon) but I hear
customers can downline load patches, firmwares, documents, etc.
for a nominal fee. (DEC4...)
So, if this structure is already in place, shouldn't we promote it?
Yeah, the newsgroups are conveninet, but like everything else,
there are official channels already in place. That's not saying
we can't do more with News Groups but we shouldn't overlook what
we already have established.
Paul
|
| 3416.38 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Fri Oct 21 1994 16:37 | 25 |
| Re: CompuServe
From what I know, all we offer on CompuServe is support for our PC products.
While there is a "VAX forum" there, there's no official support channel for
non-PC lines.
Nobody's asking for newsgroups to be an official support channel. What is
being asked is that there be Digital folks whose job it is to follow
relevant newsgroups, communicate with customers and feed back what they've
learned to the corporation. This is actually part of my job description,
but it's limited to our Fortran products. We need others in other areas to
do the same thing.
We also need some visibility higher up in the company. Unfortunately,
"Corporate Customer Relations" was gutted earlier this year - the folks who
are left at the US level are swamped as it is.
So far, the majority of those who participate in the newsgroups are
"individual contributors". There are a handful of product managers who
read the groups, a couple of them actually write from time to time. Brian
Breton used to do a superb job of this for VMS, but he's gone and nobody has
taken his place.
Steve
|
| 3416.39 | "[email protected]" a step in the right directions | OASS::HIBBERT_P | Somebody STOP! me. | Fri Oct 21 1994 19:49 | 11 |
| There is movement towards additional support. One step in this
direction is that developers on alpha platforms can send messages to:
[email protected]
Before anyone flames, understand that I am not in charge of any
official process or program. I'm just a grunt who wants to spread
any good news that I know of. The fact that a developer can send a
message directly and officially to Digital is good news.
Phil
|
| 3416.40 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Fri Oct 21 1994 21:36 | 5 |
| Phil, could you elaborate on this? What kind of user is supposed
to use this address, what should they use it for and who is on the
other end?
Steve
|
| 3416.41 | DELL does this | HLDE01::VUURBOOM_R | Roelof Vuurboom @ APD, DTN 829 4066 | Sat Oct 22 1994 04:18 | 4 |
| I read somewhere (can't remember where) last month that DELL allocates
around 5-10 people full time to scour the news conferences for any
reference to DELL and of course provide answers/solutions. DELL's position
is that the Usenet provides a second to none customer input channel.
|
| 3416.42 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Sat Oct 22 1994 10:19 | 8 |
| You read it in .0 (or in VNS).
Dell is small enough (in terms of scope of product offering) that they
can do this with just one or two people. We (at least until we sell
off everything except chips) would need more than that. But that's
not a reason to not make a formal effort to get there.
Steve
|
| 3416.43 | axp-developers aka AXP partner/Porting Support | JANIX::jmh | Voodoo System Management | Sat Oct 22 1994 14:20 | 22 |
| >>Notefile: HUMANE::DIGITAL
>>Note: 3416.40
>>Author: QUARK::LIONEL "Free advice is worth every cent"
>>Topic: Internet marketing? DECies buy Gateway?
>> Phil, could you elaborate on this? What kind of user is supposed
>> to use this address, what should they use it for and who is on the
>> other end?
I'm not Phil but anyway,
[email protected] is the mail address to the people
at the 4 SDSC (aka Alpha Porting Centers, located in PA, MRO,
BST and UFH) and it should be used by our partners and ISVs
who require support/help with our Software/Hardware .
All mail is X-posted to a notes conference and members of the
SDSC are reading these entries on a regular basis .
Hth,
Jan
|
| 3416.44 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Sat Oct 22 1994 17:23 | 4 |
| Ok - that makes it appear to not be a channel one would want to
offer to the "average" customer.
Steve
|
| 3416.45 | | PLUGH::needle | Money talks. Mine says "Good-Bye!" | Sat Oct 22 1994 23:09 | 22 |
| I also set up [email protected] and [email protected] for questions
about those products. Gives us a location to include in our advertising
and such. And if we can convince the right people, I'd like it on a tag
on every printer and terminal we sell! At least it can go in the .sig
when we start answering all our customer questions (and future customer
questions) on Usenet and the larger on-line services. Again, a grassroots
effort, but at least it's somewhat in my job description, at least for
C&P products.
+----------------------------------+--------------------------------+
|Jeff Needle |Internet: [email protected] |
|Digital Equipment Corporation |DECnet: PLUGH::NEEDLE |
|2 Results Way, |C&P Hotline: 1-800-777-4343 |
|Marlboro, MA 01752-3011 |DTN: 297-4629 |
|Mailstop: MRO2-2/D6 |Phone: (508) 467-4629 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Components and Peripherals Headquarters Technical Support |
|Questions? Send mail to [email protected] or |
| [email protected] |
+----------------------------------+--------------------------------+
|
| 3416.46 | | PLAYER::BROWNL | Coito ergo sum | Mon Oct 24 1994 06:31 | 6 |
| You're all forgetting that Newsgroups are like notes conferences: full
of whiners without enough work to do. Therefore anything said in them
can be safely ignored because it, and the forum it appears in, are
completely valueless. Real Digits "don't do Notes". Do they.
Laurie.
|
| 3416.47 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Mon Oct 24 1994 08:59 | 3 |
| I guess you're not a 'real Digit", then, eh? :-)
Steve
|
| 3416.48 | | PLAYER::BROWNL | The InfoHighway has too many side-roads. | Mon Oct 24 1994 11:08 | 3 |
| It appears not!
Laurie.
|
| 3416.49 | | CAPNET::PJOHNSON | aut disce, aut discede | Tue Oct 25 1994 07:30 | 3 |
| re: .46
Is there an implied smiley-face in there somewhere?
|
| 3416.50 | | SUBURB::FRENCHS | Semper in excernere | Tue Oct 25 1994 08:33 | 6 |
| Our Laurie is a very valuable contractor without whom we would have
been is some very embaressing situations.
He is more of a 'real Digit' than some permies I know of.
Simon
|
| 3416.51 | The importance of notesfiles and newsgroups | XSTACY::JLUNDON | <A HREF="http://xagony.ilo.dec.com/personal/james/home.html"> | Wed Oct 26 1994 07:15 | 117 |
| Re .46
> You're all forgetting that Newsgroups are like notes conferences: full
> of whiners without enough work to do.
*REALLY* pal? I read quite a few notesfiles and newsgroups and I
consider that this effort adds real value to what I do for Digital. I
find out about new technologies and research new ways to doing my job
more efficiently. I meet people that can help me with problems I'm
having; people that sometimes have a breath of knowledge that astounds
me and what's more, I'm honoured that they are willing to help me with
my measly problems. I return this compliment by helping as many
people as I can, and also advance the reputation of Digital and its
employees on the same newsgroups that are read by literally millions
of people around the world. In fact, if all is said and done, I don't
think there are enough of people in Digital reading and writing to
these forums and I think that Digital is the poorer for it. We've
missed out on a lot of opportunities and taken it on the chin too many
times for our lack of attention to these forums. We've been closeted
too long behind our internal notesfiles and lack a presence on these
external electronic forums is probably starting to hurt us financially
now.
Many (most?) internal projects exist primarily through notesfiles, as
all project documentation is to be found in these crucial information
sinks. So you keep all your work related information/documentation in
your head, do you? I extrapolate slightly, since you seem not to like
notesfiles (and associated technology) as you consider that it gets
in the way of doing the "job". What happens when you leave Digital?
Does all this knowledge go with you when you leave? Where does your
successor go for information on projects that you've worked on? He
can't, as you didn't have the foresight of depositing it someplace
where it could be searched for and retrieved -- a notesfile. A large
part of my job is making sure that my successor has an audit trail of
all the work I've done and the most convenient store for all this
information is a notesfile.
And as for your remark about all noter/Useneters being whiners: what
are you doing in here whining, for that is all you are doing at the
moment? Your remark isn't very constructive is it? It's always
easier to be critical than to be constructive in situations like this!
When I read a notesfile/Usenet group about IBM products and see that
most of the notes/articles are negative in nature, I build up a
mental image that IBM products are problematic or difficult to use.
These products will not be worth buying, since I believe (and still do
no matter what you say) that people are genuine and wouldn't write to
these forums unless there were convinced enough that other people
should know about their problems too. Most of these people are not
whiners, and what matter if they were, they still deserve to be
treated with a certain respect, as every whiner is a potential
customer in the future. If you alienate people like this now, you
reap the rewards 10 or 20 years down the line!
It's exactly same with Digital products -- I would be less likely to
buy a Digital product if I read negative comments about them in such a
forum. Usenet newsgroups and notesfiles are coming much more into the
public consciousness and they have to be treated with the extreme
respect they deserve, something that hasn't been the case in the past
around here, IMHO. We haven't stopped/counteracted a lot of the
negative comment that has gone on in some of the Digital related
Usenet newsgroups in the past. I'm convinced that this state of
affairs has caused many customers -- and potential customers -- to go
elsewhere with their business.
I completely agree with some previous comments that people should be
positioned full time to monitor activity on Digital related Usenet
newsgroup gleaning information/comments/criticisms that should then be
fed back into the system. Without people like Steve Lionel (and many
others, on a personal basis) battling on the front line we'd be in a
much poorer position than we are right now (if that is possible :-]).
We have to get out there and be pro-active, creating opportunities to
show that our technology is the best and not be completely overlooked,
as we are in many different market segments today. In many of these
markets we have technology that is as good, if not better than the
opposition, but if we don't tell people about it... We cannot
underestimate the importance of these external electronic forums.
It's reported than only only 1 to 5 percent of the potential
readerships of some of these forums actually post notes to them. The
other 99% soaks up all this negative comment of Digital and will
remember it when it comes to making a decision between buying from
Digital and some other supplier. Be convinced that this is the case,
my friends!
Why does Dell position full time employees on Usenet then? They
realise that negative publicity of any kind has to be acted upon, for
if it isn't it will hit where it hurts most -- the bottom line!
> Therefore anything said in them can be safely ignored because it, and
> the forum it appears in, are completely valueless. Real Digits "don't
> do Notes". Do they.
Since no smilies are enclosed I can only assume that you are serious.
What you have said is a crock IMO! "Real digits don't do notes" --
ha-ha-ha! I think we exist in an environment where notesfiles and
newsgroups are becoming indispensable to most of our jobs. You seem to
be going in the opposite direction? So all those poor souls typing to
their hearts contents had better stop and find real lives to live --
like you I suppose?
Notesfiles -- in particular -- are the distillation of many peoples
experiences and are critical to the continued wellbeing of the
company. Every time I hear of a notesfile being lost -- especially a
technically oriented -- I become a little sad as it is like the loss
of a most valuable book of which there is no replacement. Usenet
newsgroups, on the other hand, are the pulse of the customer out
there. The symptoms are there for all to see...someday we will go in
and find that the customer has no pulse and then what? Disaster
indeed!
I am a real digit and I've made reading notesfiles and Usenet
conferences an integral part of my Digital existence, as other people
have I'm sure. Most of this work is for the good of the company and
not for any personal gratification. We can't all be wrong, can we?
James.
|
| 3416.52 | Calm Down | ROWLET::AINSLEY | Less than 150 kts. is TOO slow! | Wed Oct 26 1994 08:26 | 5 |
| re: .51
The reason no one else has flamed .46 is because we know Laurie is kidding.
Bob
|
| 3416.53 | Yep, I was only kidding | PLAYER::BROWNL | The InfoHighway has too many side-roads. | Wed Oct 26 1994 08:29 | 14 |
| RE: .51
Sigh.
James, it appears that the sarcasm in my reply went over your head.
Believe me, my note was bitterly sarcastic. Aside from the swipes at me
;^), I agree with all you say, and have been a "believer" for years.
Only this week I heard a manager pronounce that if it were up to him,
he would ban all notes conferences, but would be prepared to listen to
a case for technical ones. Believe me, our biggest impediment to using
Internet is ourselves.
Cheers, Laurie.
|
| 3416.54 | Red faced | XSTACY::JLUNDON | <A HREF="http://xagony.ilo.dec.com/personal/james/home.html"> | Wed Oct 26 1994 11:04 | 7 |
| Laurie,
re .52
Oops :-}.
James.
|
| 3416.55 | How to send? | NEMAIL::MCDONALDJ | | Thu Oct 27 1994 15:46 | 6 |
| Can someone point me to some directions for sending mail to someone
at a college? If I have "their" internet address, it seems to me that
I still need a missing piece. I tried to send, but got a returned
failure.
Just curious
|
| 3416.56 | Example from VAXmail. | SFC01::GREENE | CASE: No Pain, No Gain! | Thu Oct 27 1994 15:56 | 8 |
|
Use this format: US3RMC::"the.internet.address"
Note the double quote marks are required. For example to send email
to President Clinton from the VAXmail 'TO:' prompt:
TO: US3RMC::"[email protected]"
|
| 3416.57 | | NITMOI::ARMSTRONG | | Thu Oct 27 1994 16:34 | 11 |
| My nephew goes to Northwestern university....
If I went there my address might be
US1RMC::"[email protected]"
all colleges end with .edu
before that is the 'college name'...like .nwu for northestern, etc.
before that is the 'path' inside the college, and before
the @ would be the name...
|
| 3416.58 | Don't you need????? | MSDOA::SCRIVEN | | Thu Oct 27 1994 16:50 | 9 |
| re: last few
Call me a dummy, but don't you have to have some sort of "software" or
something that will "send" it like X.400? Like I said, I don't know
nothin about this stuff except that I had to have it to send stuff to
my customers....
Toodles.....JP
|
| 3416.59 | | REGENT::BLOCHER | | Thu Oct 27 1994 16:58 | 6 |
| RE: .55
There are directions on pages 315 & 316 of the Digital Telephone Directory
for sending to Internet from any of our mail systems.
Marie
|
| 3416.60 | Oh, no! Collision on the info on-ramp! | DPDMAI::EYSTER | Fluoride&Prozac/NoCavities/No prob! | Thu Oct 27 1994 16:59 | 19 |
| Nope, you're not a dummy, you just have a question. Big difference.
If you have someone's internet address, you only have to go into MAIL
and send them a love letter. You need to use one of the gateways a
previous noter described. So if I wanted to send YOU mail, I'd:
$ MAIL
MAIL> SEND
MAIL> who: US2RMC::"[email protected]"
(bunch of text about that money you owe me :^]
<ctrl>Z
...and off it goes! SOFBAS::INTERNET_TOOLS has more info on the
gateways, etc. but this should get you started. Use US(1,2, or 3)RMC
as your gateway.
Hope this helps.
Tex
|
| 3416.61 | It would be a different picture now. | DV780::VIGIL | Williams VIGIL, y que mas? | Thu Oct 27 1994 17:01 | 21 |
| > Call me a dummy, but don't you have to have some sort of "software" or
> something that will "send" it like X.400? Like I said, I don't know
> nothin about this stuff except that I had to have it to send stuff to
> my customers....
From VMS MAIL:
MAIL> SEND
To: SMTP%"[email protected]"
CC:
etc, etc
The above assumes that you have an IP product, such as UCX or Multinet,
on your system.
If only Digital had bundled the TCP/IP stack with VMS back in '88 like
I suggested... Sigh!
Ws
|
| 3416.62 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Thu Oct 27 1994 17:43 | 12 |
| UPSAR::GATEWAYS is the right place for this sort of question, not
INTERNET_TOOLS.
As for "the software" - we have it.
For complete details, do this:
$ COPY DECWRL::"GATEWAY.DOC" gateway.doc
and read the file. (The quotes in the COPY command are required.)
Steve
|
| 3416.64 | | AXEL::FOLEY | Rebel without a Clue | Wed Nov 23 1994 15:17 | 8 |
|
RE: .63
Be careful when you cut and paste that URL. You have to delete
the trailing period (.).
mike
|
| 3416.65 | review/vote on new Web Home Page | NRSTA1::HORGAN | Tim Horgan | Wed Nov 23 1994 15:37 | 41 |
| corrected version of .63 to correct URL (thanks, Mike):
re: previous notes about Digital's external Web Home Page....
A review of three proposed external Web pages is now available online at
http://www-iu.mro.dec.com/public/voting/intro.html
This will be available through December 5. Attached is the IR accouncement
of this service:
/Tim
===========
Invitation to Review and Vote for the New Digital Home Page Design
You are invited to participate in selecting the final design for Digital's
new-look Home Page on our public World-Wide Web server.
Design Goals:
Our goal in redesigning the Digital Home Page was to find a style that presents
Digital in a more interesting way, using graphics, icons and colors consistent
with the Digital Branding effort, while maintaining a reasonable user access
time.
We believe the overall design optimizes the use of graphics and colors, and
would like to hear your comments and suggestions about these pages.
You can review and vote on the three different designs by accessing the
following URL with your Web browser:
http://www-iu.mro.dec.com/public/voting/intro.html
Thanks in advance for your help and feedback.
Corporate Communications' Internet Program Team
|
| 3416.66 | Digital and the Internet | SUOSWS::BODENSTEDT | Martin Bodenstedt SWAS-IIS @SUO | Mon Nov 28 1994 09:16 | 20 |
| Hi,
that's a great idea, but our presence on the Internet should not stop there:
we also need to monitor the news groups more closely (even if it means to commit
a pro fulltime to do it as apparently DELL is doing) !
I've just skimmed the DEC - related news groups during the weekend and found such
a wealth of information and ideas that would seem to be a shame to ignore !
News - as our internal notes files - are definitely NOT something for people who
have nothing else to do (as has been suggested elsewhere in this conference) but
for people with either a pressing problem or a good idea we should be grateful for
hearing about...
While I'm at it:
what about a News <-> notes gateway ?
ciao, martin
|
| 3416.67 | .66> "What about a News <-> notes gateway ?" | LJSRV2::KALIKOW | No Federal Tacks on the Info Hwy! | Mon Nov 28 1994 10:16 | 4 |
| These already exist; several notesfiles are gatewayed to corresponding
internally-only-visible newsgroups, and vice-versa. I don't have
pointers easily to hand, but perhaps others will supply same...
|
| 3416.69 | lgp30::dka400:[news-notes]jobs (purged periodically) | LGP30::FLEISCHER | without vision the people perish (DTN 297-5780, MRO3-3/L16) | Mon Nov 28 1994 12:18 | 11 |
| re Note 3416.68 by GNPIKE::SMITH:
> For a while, ne.jobs was shadowed in a NOTES conference, but it went
> away... guess they guy who set it up found what he was looking for :-)
misc.jobs.offered, biz.jobs.offered, and ne.jobs are all
shadowed (read only) in:
lgp30::dka400:[news-notes]jobs
Bob
|