Conference 7.286::digital

Do we really need another "I've got a new idea!  Let's all take a pay cut!"
note?  It's been raised and shot down before.

A noble gesture, perhaps, but I imagine the attitude
you would find is: "I can't afford to give up $4k,
I'll need that for when I get laid off!!". People
are thinking contingency and backup plans for 
dealing with catastrophe, not ways of preventing
it.

    The problem is sales, not costs.  We've been nickle and diming the cost
    side of it to DEATH.  What next, pay cuts?  Or maybe cut back on the AC or
    have the lawn cut half as often?  The tree is dying cuz it ain't
    getting any water.  OK, prune away the dead wood but trimming the leaves 
    off in an effort to save water is not wise.
                                                                 
    IMO

    
    I still am in favor of an "optional" 4 day work week.  By optional,
    it would not be mandated, but at the option of the manager and
    employee.  This would work very well for some of the employee 
    population.
    
    Linda
    

>    No, no, no, it's not a new idea.

Then why does it need a new note?  Use one of the old ones.  Or better yet
read one of the old ones.  The vast majority of the replies have been
negative when this has been raised before.  Why should they be different now?

>					I'm a lot more down to earth than
>    you could possibily imagine, so please, spare me of your pedestrian
>    cynicism & just tell me if you're willing to take a pay cut or not. 

I'm willing for Bob Palmer to take a pay cut.

    
    re: .-1 nickle and diming the cost side
    
    Digital has been worrying about cost cutting for at least the last 4
    years and has neglected the revenue side.  Our strategy is always "we
    will cut costs"; never does it have something to do with increasing
    revenue.  I have watched and read about reports indicating how Digital
    is cutting costs and how new ideas to cut costs are announced (e.g.,
    make printouts two sided, change payroll to bi-weekly, salary freeze,
    no more post-its, etc.).  Where is the announcement that is supposed to
    increase revenues and make us more competitive?
    
    From Palmer's DVN:
    
    " ... Traditionally, we worried about revenue, occasionally we worried
       about the cost, and the profit that ensued thereof after that."
    
    Really?  We worried about revenue?  Prove it.  We are indeed making
    revenue albiet flat or decreasing; but, we have got to get into the
    mode of making serious revenue (large increases) if we are going to
    survive.  Today, 65K employees given current revenues makes us appear
    "competitive".  Next year, revenues will continue to shrink -- does
    this mean we need to lower the employee population again to remain
    "competitive"?
    
    Personally, we need to gut the leadership in this company and get some
    people interested in AND motivated to make us profitable.  Cut
    executive salaries by 25-50% and give them stock options; if the stock
    doesn't go up, they don't get paid that 25-50%; if they don't perform
    (make Digital profitable), they don't get paid.  Stop paying for non-
    performance at once and start demanding good leadership.
    
    Dennis (who wants Digital to thrive)
    

    I guess I'd rather risk a pay cut by going to another company than
    taking one here. However, if such a plan were implemented here, I would
    recommend a percentage rather than a lump sum, so that moderately paid
    secretaries would not have to give up the same amount as handsomely
    paid senior executives.
    
    My $.02,

Some of us already took $4K (or higher) pay cuts when they cut out standby.

In manufacturing people are working non-optional 6 and 7 day weeks, 4 day
weeks won't meet the customer demand

dave

By freezing salaries, we are already taking a pay cut.  The longer you stay,
the bigger the cut, in real cost-of-living terms.

	Steve

    
    
    
    
    
    "Then why does it need a new note?  Use one of the old ones"  
    
    Maybe I'm a busy guy, & I don't have time to scan old notes.
    In fact I think most people check what's new, read only & "exit".
    Maybe it's time to bring an old question to the fore since time
    is something this company might have little of. The reason I put
    it here is that I feel more people would see it, and as you can
    plainly see there are quite a few replies already.
    
    
     As for Mr. Palmer taking a pay cut, well that's his decision, but
     what's yours?  I still don't know...
    
     
    To many chiefs, to many indians & to many cynics....  
    
    As for Mr. Palmer taking a cut that's his decision, I still
    don't know what yours is??? 
    
     

RE: .11

	Mine is "No". It's a temporary fix to a larger problem. We have
	to stop cutting and start growing revenue and PROFIT. If we can't
	do that then the only thing cutting $4k out of my pay will do is
	piss me off and postpone the inevitable.

							mike

I was originally thinking about posting this, but didn't.  I sent this
"up the management chain".  I don't know how far it finally made it.

----------------------------------------
(June 7)

...
The basic idea is a "progressive" pay reduction, trading the pay for stock
that can't be redeemed for an extended period of time, combined with some
statements about job security in order to try to provide "revenue-side
incentive" rather than having continuous cutting (this was prompted
in part by the "20,000 next quarter" rumor) and keeping morale low
(which is likely to lower revenue per employee rather than raise it,
and which doesn't seem to me like a path to long-term success.)

Kent
--------------------
Is it time to stop "the infinite retreat" and stand or die as a unit?

If payroll cost is the big short-term problem, what about a sliding
decrease from the top, as was mentioned that HP did - something like
25% at the top down to 5% at the bottom, with the balance being offered
somehow in "captive" stock that couldn't be sold for a year (or some
other long time period), and with 1/5 of the "forced investment" pay
reverting back to normal pay in each profitable quarter (which might well
mean 2 years to get back to current raw salary levels, even in an
optimistic situation.)  In addition:

    - The announced stock option plan would be available to all employees,
      regardless of level (is it?)

    - Any raises during this period would start out in the form of stock,
      and 1/2 of the raise amount would convert to cash in after each
      profitable quarter.  (This is effectively a "continuing stock option".)

    - A 1 year moratorium on layoffs (but not spin-offs or sales of units),
      and from the end of that period on, the "package" would be defined
      to be at least 4wk+1wk/year.  In addition, people would have their
      "captive" stock available for immediate sale (which would not be
      "termination pay", but back pay, and thus wouldn't be something that
      prevented unemployment benefits from kicking in.)

This would presumably require approval from stockholders, since it would
dilute their ownership.  However, if they believe that employees are more
committed to turning the company around, that should improve the price
of the shares they own.  (Obviously, if they are of the "cut, cut, cut"
school, they probably won't like it...)

Yes, it would be an effective short-term pay cut for employees (and it
probably has all sorts of legal problems...)  The idea is:

    - Provides a lot more indication that "we're in this together",
      which might go a long way toward restoring morale and trying
      to get people to work together (since their compensation that
      can't be sold for a year will depend on the stock price.)
      This might even shift the focus to revenue generation from
      constant "retreat" (cost reduction regardles of revenue impact...)
      (Digital's persistent problem has been revenue per employee -
      it isn't clear that ANY amount of cutting, rather than focusing
      employees on how to work more effectively, will do anything but
      continue to lock us in a "death spiral", that has been mentioned
      before.)

    - It gives the company a temporary reduction in salary cost,
      which would help alleviate dwindling cash.

    - It doesn't force potentially unpaid leave on employees at short
      notice, and means that the company would actually get *work* done
      toward making us profitable again, instead of sitting idle for
      a week (at a point when we cannot afford it...)

This is only part of the fix, however (i.e. the short term).  We still
need a believable, viable long-term plan that's more believable than
the current "cut costs" "plan", and that gets a lot more commitment
on follow-through than "strategy of the quarter".

(One anology - imagine a spindly railroad tresle from the late 1800s.
Then imagine "cost reducing" the support structure one log at a time...)

    My preferences:
    
    Actually I would take a minor paycut in return for a 4-day workweek -
    I hate Mondays!!! 
    
    However the cut will be an equal-%-cut across ALL levels,
    CEO to the chimney sweep  --- no exceptions!! Hey, does the BOD get
    paid or are these honorary positions? If BOD gets paid, they too get
    a cut!
    
    I would expect the cut to a TEMPORARY measure, but really, having
    a pay cut is NOT going to solve any of the FUNDAMENTAL problems
    this company has.
    
    
    

    Don't forget one of the barometers:
    
    REVENUE PER EMPLOYEE
    
    Does not matter what the EMPLOYEE earns.
    
    greg_t (who still pissed about the wage freeze in the early 80's so we
    could R&D a PC line. Remember Rainbows?, fantastic product but we just
    could not make it a profitable business).

    
    
       The company IS already turning around and the "right" things are being
       done now. Don't expect to see overnight results. Things may look bad
       now, but I am optimistic that we will all notice that Digital is a 
       profitable/focused company in about six months. Maybe this means
       DC is bought by CSC etc., but the end result will be a better
       Digital and a better DC etc.
    
       Pay cuts aren't needed.

       >Pay cuts aren't needed.

	My thoughts exactly.  A pay cut would just add cash to the company
	balance sheet.  It wouldn't help reengineer our ways of doing 
	things.  The problem is NOT that we don't have enough money.  We
	still have a decent balance sheet.  The problem is that we are not
	making money.  I'm sure there are a whole barrel of problems in fact,
	but lack of cash is not one of them.  An extra 500 million injected
	into Digital in a years time frame from such a pay cut would only
	help our short term value.  It wouldn't mean squat in the long run.
	Either we fix the company and recover, or we go down the tubes.
	Some extra cash wouldn't mean anything unless at some point we become
	cash constrained.

	We need better ideas and methods, not pay cuts.

	Cheers,
	--Dave

    
    	Any suggestions of Pay cuts MUST start at the top with leadership
    from the CEO and the BOD, VP etc.  If it didn't, morale would drop even
    faster than it has so far!
    
    	The biggest single drop in morale (in my observations) came when BP
    gave himself (approved by the BOD) a 20% pay rise when everyone else
    was having a pay freeze (official or otherwise).  I (and my colleagues
    similarly) haven't had a pay rise since February 1991!  That is an
    effective pay cut of around 20% due to the increase in the cost of
    living in that time.
    
    	So let us not waste any more time on these sort of issues and get
    on with the job!  We are already having a pay cut and it is getting
    bigger all the time!!!!!!
    
    				Malcolm.

Germany hadn't a pay rise since October 1992 (last pay rise). Due to our
contract with the union, made in July 1993 we received a 2% payrise in
July 1994. I think, we as the employees of this company have done already
a lot to "save" money: Lay offs after lay offs, no payrises etc. Top 
management not if BP received a 20% payrise.

2% payrise on top of my salary is a joke compared to 20% on top of
BP salary...

So, stop that junk question about pay cuts etc. Nobody can guarantee me
a job in this company, with or without a pay cut.

Digitals aim seems to be 65000 employees and not how it could 
employ 90000.

Volkswagen's (VW) intention was to save jobs for 30000 employees, out
of about 100000. VW did it for at least 2 years with a pay cut and working 
hour reduction. Employees at VW seem to accept this because VW's intention
was it to save jobs.

I have not the feeling, that Digital has the same intention as VW has.

Under these circumstances I say NO!

Stefan�

    If the base noter is willing to take my pay cut, I'm all for it.

    
    
    	how much would be saved if the "field" gave up stand-by/call-in
    	pay? 
    
    
    	rth

    Re .21
    
    A lot. But why let people who work their butt of on odd ours to satisfy
    customers suffer for something which isn't their fault to begin with?
    
    Charles

    RE: .9
    
    Could some TFSO candidates be retrained to work in Manufacturing to
    relieve those who do not want to work 6 and 7 day weeks?
    
    Linda

    
    RE .23
    
    Its a good idea Linda but I don't think anyone would move without some
    sort of relocation allowance.
    
    And to answer the main question about the 4K cut, my answer is a 
    definate NO, 4K is a massive chunk out of my salary - even if I wanted
    to I just couldn't afford it! 
    
    Stew.

There is no way on this earth that I could take a pay cut.  I'd 
starve.  RE: .13 -- I can't pay the rent with stock options.  'Nuff 
said?

I agree completely with the various noters who have stated here that 
the need is not to cut more heads or pay levels, but to streamline our 
business methods to save us time and expense, and to *increase* our 
productivity (REVENUE!!).  The real answer is effective marketing and 
advertising, not expense reduction.

Until the SLT comes up with a plan that will show us to our best 
advantage to our consumers (existing customers and new), we will 
continue to slide down the "how do we cut costs?" rathole.

M.

    Pay cut, "smay cut".  I agree with those that responded to pay freeze
    IS a pay cut--especially those of us with over 10+ years that have
    lived through the other pay freezes.
    
    In reference to a voluntary 4 day work week??  Yeah, that'd be great
    but a 4 X 8 work week is closer to 20% cut.  If you worked longer hours
    during that 4 days, your hourly rate would decrease at an increasing
    rate.  NOT a great idea as most of us are already working our tired and
    over-travelled butts off.
    
    Finally, if companies outside of DEC are willing to hire exDECies at up
    to a 50% increase, what does that tell us?  Number 1 it tells us that
    DEC already pays under the market (contrary to the our corporate
    rethoric to the contrary), number 2, that those companies out there are
    thinking that we're worth it.
    
    Keep the faith,
    
    Jesse
    
    P.S.  Aim high, any fool can hit the ground

Instead of a pay cut, how about...(drum roll)...

A PI CUT!!!

See, everybody, top to bottom, takes 3.14% cut...

      8^} (insane giggle...)

    A pay cut is a terrible idea.
    
    We will end up keeping the least marketable people in the company,
    probably not the best people.
    
    We will give Digital another 2 years to flounder.
    
    We are already paid well below the national average.
    
    Fix Digital, don't take from us.

    Further pay cut thought...
    
    Of the 65,000 (soon-to-be) remaining employees, the vast majority are
    work-a-day "dweebs" who follow direction given by the SLT-types...this
    mess isn't our fault, and we aren't being *allowed* to do any of the
    really creative things we'd like to in order to fix it, so why should
    we be punished for it?
    
    I'd say an across-the-board pay cut would be rather like spanking your
    son for something *you* broke!
    
    M.
    

>    I'd say an across-the-board pay cut would be rather like spanking your
>    son for something *you* broke!

How about the parallel of asking your son to help bear a reduced
family budget because you lost a job?

    
    >work-a-day "dweebs" who follow direction given by the SLT-types
    
    this attitude sounds to me like part of the problem. SLT is not
    supposed to knowall/doall. 
    
    we all have to look out for the health of the enterprise, and to
    effect changes when we can or sound alarms when necessary.
    

    We must all be terribly bored sittin' round waiting for the next piece
    of bad news. Why else would we be wasting time beating the tombstone of
    the horse we buried quite a while ago? If you like the idea of a pay
    cut, mail BP a personal check for the appropriate amount. If you don't
    like the idea of a pay cut, spend your cycles on your resume and not in
    this note.
    
    Sheesh. Reading this string you'd think we'd all turned into SLT members.

Don't forget, most Sales Reps (I am not a Sales Rep) took a 10-40% pay 
cut last year with the new pay system. The only way they earn the 
10-40% back is to make whatever arbitrary goals they were handed for 
the year. In addition, we don't seem to be able to track what they sold 
or what was shipped, so they often don't even get credit for what they 
sold. If you make a conservative guess for Sales Reps salaries, you'll 
see that many of them took close to a $20K cut for the year, often 
with no way to recover the lost pay due to unrealistic goals or 
inadequate sales tracking systems. This cut didn't seem to save 
Digital big $$$ in FY94....

Arlan

    re: .30 -- we're already doing that -- we get no pay raises, we can't
    buy a post it note, and finding a clean file folder is like the needle
    in the haystack bit.  I can't get a printer to go with the laptop I was
    assigned, so I use my own printer at home, ink cartridges and paper, to
    print out customer presentations.  We have no real EAC anymore (lack of 
    funding), no employee discounts tickets, etc., and so on and so 
    forth, etc., etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseum.  Besides, it has been 
    so long since Digital treated us like a benevolent parent that I 
    don't really feel the need to behave like a dutiful child anymore -:)...
    
    re: .31 -- SLT isn't supposed to be perfect, but they *are* supposed to
    provide strong leadership.  Personally, I would say that our 
    financial condition, the attitude on Wall Street, and the discouraged
    feelings of the majority of noter, they are not succeeding.  
    
    I didn't fail Digital -- I made my annual goals 2 years running, as
    long as I've held a revenue-producing position.  My product makes
    Digital-traditional margin, between 20 and 45% (or so Corporate 
    tells me).  I have developed and implemented several creative ways to
    expand my little business, and work in as entreprenurial a way as any
    major corporation can stand.  For this, I receive a munificent salary
    just about the same as the department secretary's, no bonuses,
    commissions, or other incentives - ye olde salary continuation plan.
    
    Digital is failing itself, its employees and its customers.  
    So, to expand on my original statement, I didn't break it,
    they won't let me fix it, and I don't think I should have to pay for
    it.
    
    M.
    

    
    	Than that folks is the answer in a nutshell. We di not break this
    Digital, we are not allowed to "fix" it, and management wants to
    "punish" us for their failures. 
    	Personally I'd cut management compensation 40% today, and then put
    them on a 60/40 plan. Bet those heads would come out of them butts real
    quick.
    
    		the Greyhawk
    

    
    I would NOT be in favour of a pay cut in that there is NO DOUBT in my 
    mind that it would just end up in the form of another LARGE and
    very UNdeserved pay raise in the pockets of the good ole boys. 
    
    Sounds like a voluntary tax increase......give us more of your income
    so we can pay medical benefits for more illegal aliens and put
    hot tubs in the prisons....
    
    I don't trust the people running this company to do the right thing
    with my 'contributions' any more than I do the government. 

    re . 35
    
    Love your imagery.