Conference 7.286::digital

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                           The Digital way of working
Created: 14-FEB-1986 20:02         2889 topics        Updated:  8-FEB-1994 13:54
     -< DIGITAL INTERNAL USE ONLY � Policy 1 Directory 1042 Extract 2209 >-
 Topic  Author               Date         Repl  Title
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   256   KIRIN::R_MISKOWITCH 19-JAN-1987    15  Plan B rumours
   347   SWAPS::CZARNECKI    14-JUL-1987    14  Is Plan B going up??
   395  NCVAX1::JAMES        30-SEP-1987     4  2B or Plan B that is the question
  2253    MORO::BEELER_JE     1-DEC-1992    33  The New DEC Sales Representative
    

    Thanks - but the last reply to these are now 5 years old!! - I was looking
    for rumors a little more current (like maybe in the past month or so??)
    

    It's been announced in my group that Plan B is history effective some
    date I don't recall. Existing participants will stay that way but can't
    replace with another Plan B when the time comes. 
    
    Joan McKenzie is responsible for Plan A.

    Its also been announced that fleet is history. I got a packet a few
    weeks ago with all the new numbers and policies about who to call for
    what kinds of service. We have 'outsourced' all fleet admin to GE.
    

    FWIW: Fleet met their maximum "trial" for the Dodge yesterday (150
    units) for Plan A with requests so far submitted.
    
    There is a single POC within Digital for questions (I've posted
    earlier) from what I've learned. The GE people I've talked to at their
    800 number though have been pretty much helpful with my questions.
    
    I'm patient in that my current vehicle is 4 years old with 94K miles
    with a shimmy and a window crank that falls off in my hand and a
    sideview mirrow stuffed  with a candy wrapper to keep it in
    place...etc... If Ed  comes to town, I'll rent a stretch :^)

    Re: .0-
    
    >    I looked up "fleet" in the Digital phone book and they are no longer
    >listed???  Wonder if they're trying to tell us something.??
    
    	Look under "Business Transportation". Intuitive, no?
    
    Phil

    Re: .5-
    
    >    FWIW: Fleet met their maximum "trial" for the Dodge yesterday (150
    >units) for Plan A with requests so far submitted.
    
    	Please explain this.
    
    Phil

    Fleet (or leasing agency?) is testing I suppose some additional model
    vehicles so they decided to acquire up to 150 Dodge Intrepids during
    the current fleet replacement effort. It didn't take them much more
    than a week to receive that many orders.

    Re: .8-
    
    	I thought Intrepids when I saw Dodge in your .6. Amazed to see
    ChryCo back on the list.
    
    Phil_who_quit_Plan_A_when_Chrysler_products_disappeared. 

    Oh the good old days! That was when Chrysler was giving away all sorts
    of goodies just to get their cars put on the various car plans. Like my
    '82 Valiant,it had horrible oxidizing paint but had so many free
    options it was worth it.
    
    Ken

    It was dark blue,the color Chrysler said was the worst for
    oxidation.(*after* i got it)
  Everything turned out great though,was able to buy it from the leasing
    co. for peanuts then re-sold it for a profit of 2K.
    
    Ken

    The rumor I have heard is:
    
    Plan B will continue at some lower rate ($200.00?) for those with over
    500 business miles/month.
    
    Plan A will continue for those with over 800 business miles/month.
    
    
    Mark

    Just wondering -- follow this logic.  Plan B offers $300.00/month plus
    $0.08/mile, if I drive 600 miles/month (100 miles over minimum required 
    for Plan B) then Digital is reimbursing me 58 cents/mile.  This is
    over twice what the IRS and AAA provide as figures for cost/mile for a
    car. Its is no wonder that Digital can not afford to havve people on
    Plan B.
    
    Meanwhile those who drive less than 500 miles/month get 22 cents/mile
    7 cents less than the 29 that the IRS allows for cost/mile.  If I drive
    my personal car on Digital business up to 499 miles/month it can cost
    me up to $35/month.
    
    Just wondering -- seems like some one needs a sharper pencil in Maynard.

re: .14

Remember, those figures are averages.  I think DEC actually did something right
by going to a variable plan B payment which acknowleges that car operating costs
differ by geography.

Bob

    re. -2
    
    The monthly payment in NOT a reimbursement.  If it was you wouldn't be
    taxed on the payment.
    
    My feelings are very disjointed on this Plan A/B/C problem.  I drove
    22000 business miles last year.  In my geography that would be
    considered slightly higher than the average number of miles a person
    would drive in a year.  I also put on 18000 personal miles.  That would
    be considered average use for a vehicle in my area.  I am only looking
    for an equitable agreement between Digital and myself.  Heck, I would
    gladly take the 28 cents per mile the IRS allows.  I am also happy with
    the current arangement.  But, if they drasticly cut the B plan, then
    they are guilty of the old Bait and Switch tactic.  
    
    Jon

>    Just wondering -- follow this logic.  Plan B offers $300.00/month plus
>    $0.08/mile, if I drive 600 miles/month (100 miles over minimum required 
>    for Plan B) then Digital is reimbursing me 58 cents/mile. 
    
    The way that I read it, the $300 (+/-) per month is payment for having
    a car available and insured to Digital's satisfaction.  The $0.08 is
    the per-mile payment for the use of the car.  You can not necessarily
    combine the two figures.
    
>    Meanwhile those who drive less than 500 miles/month get 22 cents/mile
>    7 cents less than the 29 that the IRS allows for cost/mile.  If I drive
>    my personal car on Digital business up to 499 miles/month it can cost
>    me up to $35/month.
    
    Not really.  You can deduct the $0.07/mile that Digital doesn't
    reimburse you.  
    
    Also, unlike the B plan where you are paid a monthly fee to have a car
    available, there's nothing in the casual car use arrangement that says
    you have to have a car available.  For example, if you took a bus to
    work, you would have no car available, therefore, you would not incur
    the $0.07/mile "loss".  If you're required to travel as part of your
    job, then Digital should provide the transportation.
    
    	Stu
    
    

    You may also deduct the difference between what Digital re-imburses you
    and what the Fed allows:
    
    ie  You receive $0.08 and the Fed allows $0.28 then you may claim $0.20
    for as many business miles as you have records for.
    
    cw

>>>    You may also deduct the difference between what Digital re-imburses you
>>>    and what the Fed allows:
    
>>>    ie  You receive $0.08 and the Fed allows $0.28 then you may claim $0.20
>>>    for as many business miles as you have records for.
    
There are restrictions:

    1) You must itemize your tax return
    2) The total amount that you deduction claim [($0.28-$0.20) * miles] must 
       be *greater* than a certain percentage of your gross income (2%?)

    Unless you drive *alot* of miles, you probably won't be able to take a
    deduction!  This was discussed extensively in the INVESTING notesfile.




    							-Paul

    re: duducting the $.20 difference. I have driven a personel vehicle for
    many years for business use. Previous employer of 10 years did not have 
    company car option. The flat monthly fee MUST be included in
    re-imbursed amount. Total cost of auto is divided by business
    percentage of use then you subtract 2% of AGI. I have been through an 
    audit on auto expenses.

    re -.1
      The flat monthly fee is taxed already so it is not included.
    
                                 Steve J.

Hot off the presses:
    
From:	NAME: U.S. TEAM                     
	FUNC: U.S. Communications             
	TEL:                                  <U.S. TEAM AT A1 at SALES at MRO>
Date:	18-Aug-1994
Posted-date: 18-Aug-1994
Precedence: 0
Subject: Fleet Plan Announcement                                                2
To:     See Below

 The U.S. Management Team recently initiated a review of our Business 
 Transportation Plan to ensure that our practices are competitive with those 
 of similar companies.  This review was conducted by a cross-organizational 
 team of individual contributors and managers from Sales, Services, Logistics, 
 Sales Operations, Finance, and Business Transportation.  The process included 
 external and internal benchmarks, sample surveys of our driver population, 
 vehicle life-cycle modeling, and a detailed assessment of business 
 transportation economics.
 
 Following are the major conclusions from this review:
 
   o   Digital's Plan A (company provided vehicle) is generally quite 
       competitive and approaching "best-in-class" with the exception of the 
       Personal Use Charge (PUC).

   o   Plan A PUC is benchmarked higher than the competition.

   o   Digital's costs for Plan B (employee-provided vehicle reimbursed by 
       the company) are higher than costs for similar plans at benchmarked 
       companies and higher than Digital's costs for Plan A.

   o   Employees prefer a more extensive selection of vehicles and are 
       willing to pay the premium for more expensive choices.

 As a result of these findings, the U.S. Management Team has reviewed and 
 endorsed the recommendation of the review team. Accordingly, the following 
 changes are hereby announced and will become effective October 3, 1994.
 
                         U.S. BUSINESS TRANSPORTATION
                             FLEET PLAN REVISIONS
 
   o   Plan A Personal Use Charge (PUC) is revised from $0.225 per personal 
       mile to a flat rate of $30 per week for a base vehicle, e.g., Ford 
       Taurus.  Benchmark studies indicate that most other companies 
       providing similar plans charge a flat rate that averages $30 per week. 
       The employee continues to be responsible for the cost of incidentals 
       (gas, oil, parking, tolls, etc.) associated with extraordinary 
       personal travel, e.g., vacation.

   o   A broader selection of vehicles will be made available to participants 
       under Plan A during the replacement process.  The preliminary list of 
       Plan A vehicles is expected to be available in October. 
       
   o   The flat personal use charge will vary according to the vehicle on the 
       selector list.  The base charge will be $30 per week, with more 
       expensive cars having a proportionately higher personal use charge.

   o   Vehicles placed on the selector list will vary from time to time, 
       based on basic equipment offerings and manufacturers' discounts to 
       Digital.


   o   Plan B in its current form is costing the company significantly more 
       than Plan A and equivalent plans of similar companies. Digital's drive 
       to profitability requires that we move swiftly to bring our Plan B 
       rate into line. Therefore, the Plan B rates will be revised for new 
       participants, to achieve cost parity with Plan A.  Current Plan B 
       participants will be "grandfathered" for a period of time to ease the 
       transition to either the new Plan B rates or Plan A.

       The new Plan B rate will be $210/month + $.08/Business mile.  This 
       flat rate will apply to all geographies across the U.S., because the 
       cost of setting and administering a geosensitive rate structure is 
       high and the validity of such rates is questionable. 

   o   Plan B "Grandfather" Policy:

       Plan B participants who enrolled in Plan B after January 1, 1994 will 
       be reimbursed at the new rate ($210/month + $.08/business mile) as 
       notified by Business Transportation at the time of enrollment.

       Plan B participants who enrolled in Plan B before January 1, 1994 will 
       be "grandfathered" (reimbursed at the rate in effect prior to this 
       announcement) as follows:

       	   Purchased vehicle:  purchase date + 24 months
       	   Leased vehicles:  lease date + 36 months
       
       Plan B participants who purchase, lease or renew a lease for a vehicle 
       after the date of this announcement (August 17, 1994) will be 
       reimbursed at the new Plan B rate ($210/month + $.08/business mile).

       To avail themselves of the "grandfather" period, eligible employees 
       must send a photocopy of either the Bill of Sale or Lease Agreement 
       (No Substitutes) to Business Transportation via internal mail (Paul 
       Coute @ MSO2-3/G20), external mail (Digital Equipment Corp, 111 
       Powdermill Road, Maynard, MA 01754, Attn: Business Transportation, or 
       FAX (DTN 223-9818 or 508-493-9818) by October 3, 1994.

   o   The minimum monthly business mileage criterion for eligibility will be 
       increased from 500 miles to 600 miles, consistent with the practices 
       of benchmarked companies. Exceptions must be approved by a Vice 
       President.

 The overall objective of our Business Transportation Plan is to provide 
 company-sponsored transportation to support the business travel requirements 
 of eligible U.S. Field employees that is safe, cost-effective, and presents 
 a positive and professional image to our customers and the community.  We, 
 the U.S. Management Team, feel that these changes are consistent with that 
 objective and with the best practices of similar companies.
 

 See the following Question and Answer section for further clarification.  
 Any additional questions regarding this policy should be directed to 
 Business Transportation, DTN 223-9500, OR Fleet Administration @MSO.
 
 
 
                            Questions and Answers
 
 
   Q1  Why is the Plan B "grandfather" period different for purchased vs 
       leased vehicles?

   A1  The economics between purchased and leased vehicles are different.  
       Typically, the point at which the residual value of the vehicle 
       exceeds the remaining debt is earlier in the case of a loan than a 
       lease.


   Q2  Why is the Plan B "grandfather" period 24 months from the purchase 
       date for a purchased vehicle, 36 months from the lease date for a 
       leased vehicle?

   A2  In the case of a typical consumer loan (48 month term), the point at 
       which the residual value of the vehicle exceeds the remaining debt is 
       between 20 and 24 months from the original purchase date.  

       The typical consumer lease has a term of 36 months and is closed end 
       (term, rate, and buy-out price are fixed).  This typical lease carries 
       substantial penalties for premature termination and, as a result, we 
       decided to protect the entire 36 month term.


   Q3  If I signed up for a loan with a longer term than 48 months, what is 
       the Plan B "grandfather" period?

   A3  You are still "grandfathered" for 24 months from the purchase date.  
       Loans with longer terms obviously carry lower payments.  If you signed 
       up for a 60 month loan, for example, your payments have been lower 
       than those of a 48 month loan, affording you a more advantageous cash 
       flow over the period that you were/will be reimbursed at the original 
       Plan B rate.

   Q4  If I signed up for a lease with a term of greater than 36 months, what 
       is the "grandfather" period?

   A4  You are still "grandfathered" for 36 months from the lease date.  
       Leases with longer terms obviously carry lower payments.  If you 
       signed up for a 60 month lease, for example, your payments have been 
       lower than those of a 36 month lease, affording you an advantageous 
       cash flow over the period that you were/will be reimbursed at the 
       original Plan B rate.


   Q5  If I purchased a vehicle but did not take out a loan, am I 
       "grandfathered" under Plan B?

   A5  If you enrolled in Plan B prior to January 1, 1994 and you do not 
       purchase, lease, or renew a lease after the date of this announcement 
       (August 17, 1994), you will be "grandfathered" for 24 months from the 
       purchase date.  It is not necessary to show proof of a loan.  You need 
       only provide a copy of the Bill of Sale for your vehicle in order to 
       be "grandfathered".

Distribution:
This message was delivered to you utilizing the Readers Choice delivery 
services.  You received this message because you are part of the U.S. 
organization.  If you have questions regarding this message, please contact 
the author of the memo.






To Distribution List:

MICHAEL           SCHNEIDER         @GGO,
JAMES             SCOTT             @GGO,
BARRY             SHIELDS           @GGO,
CHRISTOPHER       SMIGA             @GGO,
JAMES             STEWART           @GGO,
LEH               SUEN              @GGO,
KEITH             SWEAT             @GGO,
MELVIN            TRAYNUM           @GGO,
SHIRLEY           TYLDESLEY         @GGO,
GLORIA            WILLIAMS          @GGO,
KELLY             BOELEMA           @GJO,
EDWARD            COKE              @GJO,
ROBERT            COOK              @GJO,
FRANCIS           FELLO             @GJO,
MICHAEL           GAYNOR            @GJO,
MICHAEL           LANINGA           @GJO,
JAMES             SEAY              @GJO,
WILLIAM           SEVIC             @GJO,
KATHLEEN          SHROYER           @GJO,
HANS              VANBAAL           @GJO,
GLORIA            WRIGHT            @GJO,
DAVID             ZUHL              @GJO,
ROY               BOULANGER         @GNO,
CLARE             BUSH              @GNO,
RONALD            DAVIS             @GNO,
RICHARD           DESCHENES         @GNO,
WILLIAM           FISHER            @GNO,
WILLIAM           HUGHES            @GNO,
STAN              JAMESON           @GNO,
RONALD            MCKNIGHT          @GNO,
RICHARD           NELSON            @GNO,
SHANE             ONEAL             @GNO,
CHARLES           PACKARD           @GNO,
GEORGE            PENDERGRASS       @GNO,
JUSTINE           PORELL            @GNO,
THOMAS            SLUDER            @GNO,
JAMES             SNOW              @GNO,
WAYNE             STAFFORD          @GNO,
PADGETT           STYLES            @GNO,
JAMES             WENTLING          @GNO,
LEON              WOOD              @GNO,
SAMUEL            GUSHURST          @GTO,
JOHN              MURAWSKI          @GTO,
ARTHUR            JEFFERIES         @GVH,
TERRI             SMITH             @GVH,
CHARLES           WALDEN            @GVH,
VERA              ALCOTT            @HEO,
LAWRENCE          AUBRY             @HEO,
RANDALL           BUSHEN            @HEO,
DOROTHY           CARSON            @HEO,
DEMETRIOUS        COLEMAN           @HEO,
TERRIE            DAVIS             @HEO,
ROBERT            HECKER            @HEO,
LEVI              KINCHEN           @HEO,
JEANINE           KULLMAN           @HEO,
DANIEL            PHALEN            @HEO,
SHERMAN           RATHER            @HEO,
DAVID             ROHLFS            @HEO,
GREGG             SMITH             @HEO,
VANITA            STEVENSON         @HEO,
DANIEL            TRAFICANTE        @HEO,
JOSEPH            ULBER             @HEO,
DENNIS            WHITE             @HEO,
GERALD            ERLANDSON         @HLO,
JOHN              MYLOTT            @HLO,
JEFFREY           RODRIGUEZ         @HLO,
MARK              VASAPOLLI         @HLO,
JEFFREY           ANNANDALE         @HSO,
JEANNINE          BARDSLEY          @HSO,
RUTH              BONNEY            @HSO,
DON               BULLARD           @HSO,
WOODROW           CAMPBELL          @HSO,
MIKE              FRAHLMAN          @HSO,
GARY              FRIZZELL          @HSO,
LAVERNE           FUENTES           @HSO,
KAREN             GARRETT           @HSO,
HARRY             HARDMAN           @HSO,
DENISE            HERDMAN           @HSO,
GISELE            JOHNSON           @HSO,
IRVIN             JOHNSON           @HSO,
JUNE              LAWRENCE          @HSO,
JANET             LEE               @HSO,
GARY              LITMAN            @HSO,
LINDA             MACFARLAND        @HSO,
P                 MCCREARY          @HSO,
ANN               MCLAUGHLIN        @HSO,
JAMES             MOBLEY            @HSO,
EDWIN             MOORHEAD          @HSO,
STEVEN            MUELLER           @HSO,
MICHAEL           PARKER            @HSO,
JOANNE            POOLE             @HSO,
JANICE            POSA              @HSO,
ELIO              RONCHINI          @HSO,
JULIE             RUSSELL           @HSO,
JOSE              SALAS             @HSO,
CATHY             SHANEYFELT        @HSO,
ADLINE            TATUM             @HSO,
BRUCE             TAYLOR            @HSO,
DONALD            THOMAS            @HSO,
PATRICIA          THOMPSON          @HSO

    
    > o   Plan A Personal Use Charge (PUC) is revised from $0.225 per personal 
    >     mile to a flat rate of $30 per week for a base vehicle, e.g., Ford 

    Looks like Plan A people will go back to using their company cars for
    everything, instead of just business mileage. Gotta use up that $130 a
    month somehow. 

    I've read through this note several times and see nothing on the dates
    of implementation of this new plan.  i.e., when will the 120/month for
    plan B start (assuming no "grandfathering") as well, when will the
    30.00/month take effect for plan A??
    
    

from .22:

> As a result of these findings, the U.S. Management Team has reviewed and 
> endorsed the recommendation of the review team. Accordingly, the following 
> changes are hereby announced and will become effective October 3, 1994.

    
    	What was the Plan B monthly rate previously, if it is coming down
    to $210.00?
    
    				Malcolm.

Geography sensitive.  At SYO it was $325.

Bob

    This is kind of funny really....
    
    In Canada company owned vehicles were found to be too expensive
    and now all employees (accept terminal techs) have to provide their
    own vehicle.
    
    
    Brian V
    

    re: new car plan
    
    Gee, the new plan looks oddly similar to the plan abandoned about three
    years ago (Plan A: $30/wk, you pay for vacations; Plan B: $200(?)/mo +
    $.08/mi) with the major exception of eligibility (no business mile
    requirements).
    
    I also find it interesting that Plan B is now more expensive than Plan A,
    when, at the end of the old system with similar numbers, someone issued
    the finding that Plan A was more expensive than Plan B.
    
    Not that it makes too much difference to many folks, since most people
    I know couldn't hack the 500 business mile/month requirement anyway,
    let alone 600.
    
    -- Russ

    After 16 years, I lost my Plan A vehicle since my major delivery
    site was only five miles from the office (under 100 business
    miles/month).  So I took out a five-year car loan and went Plan C
    - $0.225/mile.  I'm on a new assignment that is putting an average
    of over 400 business miles per *week* on that car (over 900 last
    week).  In the first of five years I have put nearly 30,000 miles
    on the car.  I am stuck with the payments so I won't be returning
    to Plan A and I've been told there is no way to get on Plan B.  Of
    course, when this project is over (Xmas time), I might be back
    down to 10-20 business miles/week (but I doubt it with the way
    Digital Consulting is stretching its coverage).

	Mike

Plan A is too expensive.    Move to plan B

Plan B is too expensive.    Move to plan A

We're management.   We know how to fix Digital's problems.

Really.

Honest.

    Re: Note 2888.30 by WLW::KIER
    
�    I've been told there is no way to get on Plan B.
    
    This is not my understanding, Mike. Perhaps you should further
    investigate getting on Plan B. Have you talked directly with your PSC
    manager and/or Fleet Admin?
    
    	BD�

At 400 miles per week, Plan C is better than the new, improved,
more flexible Plan B.  You get more money, and it isn't subject to
witholding.

We come in under their radar from the north...oh, sorry, wrong note!

8^)

    How come the gov. says you can have .28 cents a mile and Digital says
    22.5?

RE: .37 

>>    How come the gov. says you can have .28 cents a mile and Digital says
>>    22.5?

You can deduct the difference on your taxes.....

    In the US, IRS Form 2016 "Unreimbursed Employee Expense" is used.  You
    would take the 28-22.5 * # of miles, etc. , etc. for your "deduction". 
    However if you're in the, say, 25% bracket, and you have $1000 of
    unreimbursed mileage, your savings is NOT that $1000--you still lose,
    but not everything.  Your bottom line reimbursement (after the hassle
    of filing those forms, etc) would be closer to 25 cents per mile.
    
    Consult you tax adviser on this--I'm sure they'd love your money.

    re: .39
    
    >  <<< Note 2888.39 by GENRAL::KILGORE "One Sky, One Earth, One People" >>>
    >                         -< A small compensation.... >-
    >
    >RE: .37
    >
    >>>    How come the gov. says you can have .28 cents a mile and Digital says
    >>>    22.5?
    >
    >You can deduct the difference on your taxes.....
    
    I believe that's true IFF the total is sufficiently horrendous (like
    greater than 2% of income or somesuch).
    
    Most folks I know never approach that figure...
    
    -- Russ

> The U.S. Management Team recently initiated a review of our Business 
> Transportation Plan to ensure that our practices are competitive with those 
> of similar companies.  

Notice how conveniently they use this tag line when its to their benefit.

Notice how it doesn't apply to the mileage rate for "Plan C" where the 
rest of the country pays $.28.

Isn't that special!   8^)

Ref: -2

You can deduct car expenses at .28/mile!  You merely subtract the amount
reimbursed by the company at .225/mile.  The diffeence is deductable.

The limiting factor in that of the Schedule-A.  Its a bummer, but I've
always got a deduction out of it.

But then again, your mileage may vary.  :^)

I find their not mentioning how well the 500->600 mile/month requirement 
benchmarks against the rest of the industry rather conspicuous.

Bruce

>      >RE: .37
>       >
>       >>>    How come the gov. says you can have .28 cents a mile and Digital
>       >>>    says 22.5?
>       >
>       >You can deduct the difference on your taxes.....
>     
>       I believe that's true IFF the total is sufficiently horrendous (like
>       greater than 2% of income or somesuch).
     
>       Most folks I know never approach that figure...
    
    Obviously you're confusing the "new" Digital with the "old" DEC. DEC
    used to pay tuition and book costs when you took a class on your own
    time. Unfortunately, this was not much help to those of you who are
    "mostly" reimbursed for mileage. Now, so long as a class is
    job-related, you can deduct the cost of the class on your Sched A. This
    is actually a new benefit provided you by Digital. The "new" Digital is
    obviously more restrained in publicising the benefits it extends you
    than was the "old" DEC.
    

    I was talking to some of the Field Application Engineers for some of
    the semiconductor vendors and they're getting $450 per month, and I
    believe that one indicated that they covered their car insurance.  
    
    I believe these Companies made a profit.  I guess DEC surveyed the
    non-profit making companies to determine their car policy.

    Re: .46-
    
    	Digital doesn't have the equivalent of Field Application Engineers
    to my knowledge, and it's a shame! Why should we- customers can read
    catalogs...but I digress.
    
    	Setting Plan B to $210 per month is ludicrous IMHO. You cannot run
    a late model vehicle and insure it for this amount. 
    
    Phil
    
    
    
    
    

    yes you can .....a SKODA..

    I think most people agree that the new $210 Plan B rate makes it
    unfeasible. This leaves those of us who acquired new vehicles, as the
    Company encouraged us to do, with a problem. Namely, how to get out
    from under the debt incurred for this vehicle. The 24 month
    "Grandfather" provision will have little effect for many people since
    we are nearing the second anniversary of the previous car plan changes.
    
    This brings me to my biggest gripe with the implementation of this new
    plan. Why are those who chose to lease being given preferrential
    treatment over those who purchased their vehicles? Using this logic,
    anyone with an adjustable rate mortgage should not be subject to the
    current wage freeze. My point is that some us who purchased vehicles
    felt we could subsidize the monthly payment with the understanding that
    we would have some equity in the vehicle near the end of the loan.
    Buying the vehicle on these assumptions was a gamble. Fine, I lost.
    I just feel everyone should have the same grace period whether it be 24
    or 36 months.
    
    just my .02
    Russ 
    

    
    Does anyone else get the impression that the reason that Plan A would
    be so much more cost effective is that we may have a glut of leased
    vehicles that we've committed to and not enough Plan A participants
    left?
    
    For me personally, this is not good news.  I put 14,000+ BUSINESS miles
    on my Plan B car last year because the company can no longer afford to
    fly me to remote customer sites.  I can't lease a car because of the
    mileage restrictions on leases.  Now becuase I've done what was best,
    I'm penalized.
    
    Let's see...  20% pay cut under the new comp plan as my customers don't
    purchase (and have no need to purchase) the products on the product
    incentive list.  Cut in the car plan.  I seriously don't know how much
    longer I can afford to work for Digital.  
    
    I would like to stay here but the banks may not let me.
    

    re .50
    
    If your right then just about the time that everyone switches to 
    a company supplied vehicle Digital will run out and reverse its
    position.
    
    
    			......
    
    
    That doesn't sound feasible now ; does it ?
    
    
    Brian V
    

    I was a Plan A participant for twelve years and only made the
    transition to Plan B as a result of the emphasis placed on the
    last Fleet Plan restructing and how it fit with the corporations
    future plans to return to profitability.
    
    Like many of you, I had been through all of the changes to Plan 
    A, but I was still comfortable with the company car plan and had
    no desire to incur the headaches and expense of maintaining a car.
    I felt compelled to move to Plan B, not because of some "advantageous
    cash flow" or other personal benefit, but because I believed the
    company had determined that Plan A was not cost effective and the
    company was phasing out Plan A for the more affordable and efficient
    Plan B or C.  I reluctantly moved to Plan B, not in my best interests,
    but what I thought was the best interests of the company.  Now I feel
    like the consumer who has been taken.
    
    I would like to challenge the statement made within the announcement,
    that a vehicles "residual value exceeds the remaining debt is earlier
    in the case of a loan".  On the contrary, with regard to the mileage
    accumulated by the service organization during a two year period, the
    residual value of a vehicle is actually less than the remaining debt.
    Unless one is on accelerated payment schedule, a trip to car
    dealership, or a bank should substantiate this comment.
    
    I agree with an earlier comment.  We are all in this together.  
    Everyone should be on the same schedule.  Not all sacrifices will
    be the same, but whether some of us bought vehicles or made the
    decision to lease, we should be on the same schedule.
    
    We have attempted to work this issue through our HR representative,
    but were told that this is a closed issue.  It would seem that as a
    dynamic company, we recognize that our plans must also remain dynamic,
    we must see that nothing is etched in stone, (ie., no issued is
    closed.)
    
    Steve

    RE: -1
    
    Amen
    
    In my case we're talking 20K miles per year in BUSINESS MILES ALONE. As
    engineers in my office go, this would be no more than average. The
    excess mileage charges associated with a lease left no alternative but
    to purchase the vehicle. However, with these accelerated mileage
    levels, I suspect it would take closer to three years to reach the
    break even point on a four year loan.
    
    Given, the economics of lease vs. purchase, I think we can make two
    assumptions.
    
    1) Those who drive relatively little (less than 12K miles per year)
    would be more inclined to lease.
    
    2) Those who drive more miles (over 12K miles per year) would have
    almost certainly purchased their vehicle.
    
    Given these assumptions, the "Grandfather" policy would have the net
    effect of penalizing those who used the vehicle more. 
    
    I understand that the Company needs to reduce its expenditures. 
    If I have to sacrifice a little then so be it. As I have said before
    however, I just believe everyone should be asked no more or no less.
    The method that the employee used to acquire the vehicle is completely
    immaterial to determining what the length of the Granfather period
    should be.
    
    Just another .02
    Russ
    

     Personally, I'm getting a bit tired of the powers that be doing the
    "this plan cost more so let's dump it" dance. (Or should I say, make
    them users pay for it.)
    
    Show me some numbers. I don't think they can. I fail to see how paying
    out $325 + 8cents cost MORE than a full maintenance lease, even with
    the "lease a bazillion vehicles, get a discount" idea. They last I
    heard (rumour only) was a $450/month/vehicle rate. Is this verifiable?
    
    Why not just make the same flat-rate payment for the "b" plan the same
    as they are paying for "a" plan? Comments? 
    
    .mike.

    Can't provide the names but the number are consistent when I talk to
    the field people for the following, a small list below.  I should
    mention that most of these companies also provide a per diem per pay
    period to offset insurance.  I believe this is true since you have to
    take added insurance because you drive customers around.
    
    grunt, sales & support: 325
    grunt's manager, DM level: 425
    grunt's grunt's manager, Senior postitions: 625
    
    Toshiba
    Motorola
    Intel
    Nec
    Mitsubushi
    Avnet
    Wyle
    etc.
    etc.
    etc.
    
    DEC 210.  But remember the allowance is comparable to the rest of the
    industry.  I'll get back to you.  I've sent a message to field reps in
    the third world countries to see if this is the consist data they're
    talking about.  Maybe we're suppose to be using water buffalos to get
    to work.
    

    heres one bean counter figure we have to use corp doesn't. INSURANCE!!
    Remember they insist that we have $500k liability. Dec is self insured
    read no immediate cost to Dec. We all know that they spend money to
    cover claims. They don't apply this when figuring their direct cost.

    Has anyone seen the new list of cars for plan A that we could pick
    from?