Conference 7.286::digital

I thought the OPT-out was only available to couplesm who were BOTH
DIGITAL employees ?

    re.1 If your wife's plan is a managed care plan what does the coverage
    look like out of network? Is there a cap on benefits? The comparison
    maybe should be against our HMO Elects instead of plan B because the 
    Elects give you the best of both the Hancock Plan as well as an HMO.
    

    re.1 No, you can opt-out if you have coverage elsewhere.

re .1 

>>I thought the OPT-out was only available to couplesm who were BOTH
>>DIGITAL employees ?


No, I have been on OPT-out since it started and my spouse has never worked
for Digital. 


Greg

    re .2
    
    HMO elect is not offered in the Atlanta area.  I could compare the
    Aetna plan to the HMO plan, but our HMO plan requires us to use the
    Kaiser Permanente physicians, and I do not want to have to change our
    physicians or hospitals.
    
    The banks plan has no cap on benefits.  It compares very favorably to
    plan B, and it has not deductible.  I will be getting the details on
    plans from AT & T and GE (through my contacts) and I will post them
    here.
    
    And, yes, the previous replies are correct.  You can opt out as long as
    you have coverage elsewhere.  Your spouse does not have to work at
    Digital.  You can also opt back in if the other source of your benefits
    dries up, e.g., your spouse gets terminated.  This is considered a
    change in family status and you do not have to wait for open enrollment
    to opt back in.

    re.5 I know the company is expanding the Elect area this year, but I'm
    not sure if Atlanta is a place it is being done. I will find out and I
    will post it.
    
    What does "managed care" mean in regards to your plan? 
                            

    HMO elect is not expanding to Atlanta this year.  Managed Care simply
    means that you must use the physicians on the approved list, which
    includes dozens of different physicians in my area.  Each member of the
    family can select a different primary care physician.  A Primary care
    physician can be a general practitioner or an internist.
    
    The term "manage" refers to the fact that Aetna is managing what the
    plan physicians can charge for services.  The costs are managed.
    
    What I HATE about HMO's is that you don't have the same freedom of
    choice of physicians and hospitals.  

    .7, "freedom of choice" in HMOs.
    
    Depends on the HMO.  My HMO here in Mass., Harvard Community Health
    Plan, serves close to 2 million people, maybe more.  The choice of doctors/
    hospitals is very wide, IMHO.  On the other hand, one of my sisters
    lives in Tulsa and works for the Social Security Administration.
    She's paying $90 a week for PruCare, Prudential's HMO, and she
    says it's crap -- very limited in its choice of doctors, etc., etc.
    So I think a lot depends on where you live and what your HMO offers.
    
    Good luck in whatever you decide to do.  Not to start a rathole, but
    how is it that other countries can provide for their citizens, but
    the U.S. can't/won't?  NO FLAMES, NO RATHOLES, JUST A COMMENT.

    	To institute a national health care plan modeled after Canada,
    Germany, the Netherlands, etc., would mean we would do away with insurance 
    companies in the area of health care. State-wide and state run agencies
    would be put in place. NO UNDERWRITING OR ADDITIONAL CHARGES WOULD BE
    ALLOWED for basic comprehensive health care. ANY CHARGE for basic care
    can restrict some from access.
    
    	The insurance industry is second only to the U.S. government in real 
    estate holdings. They, as an industry, have a lot of money and power. This 
    is one of the problems. 
    
    
    	This is simplistic, but gets the point across. We are currently in a 
    relentless circle that looks something like this -
    
    	Health Care --> Insurance --> More uninsured ------
    	costs rise	costs rise    & More bad debt.	   |	
    	    ^						   |
    	    |						   |
    	     ----------------------------------------------
    
    	Ray

    Unless you've been out in the job market in the past year or so, you'd
    be VERY surprised at what percentage of health care coverage companies
    DON'T pay.  100% medical coverage used to be a given, now you're lucky
    if you can get 75% coverage and the smaller (200 or so people)
    companies are considerably less.  It's just too cost prohibitive.  I've
    managed to luck out with the Tufts Affiliated HMO.... at 20$ per week
    including dental for the family plan I feel like ive got the best deal
    in town.  No hastles, no deductibles, a 3$ co pay, $3 per visit at the
    YMCA's, $3 co pay for diet workshop.  They are a very proactive,
    propeople health plan.  Maybe you need to "shop around" a bit more and
    see if there are any other "people oriented" HMO's.
    
    Lucky Lolly

    re:.8 etc.
    
    Different plans vary place to place.  In greater Boston, HCHP doesn't
    offer a choice of doctors -- it's a classic clinic plan, modeled after
    Kaiser, offering NP coverage with rare MD (staff) backup.  You can only
    choose a staff doctor from those with openings at a clinic with
    openings.  No family doctors or anything like that.  It's a great plan
    for Healthy Members Only!  But in the exurbs, they purchased a PPO a
    few years ago (Multigroup), and offer it as "HCHP".  That allows a
    wider choice of primary and specialist doctors, with normal office and
    hospital settings.
    
    Tufts and Bay State are PPOs.  Bay State went bankrupt, was bought by
    Blue Cross, and will cost a LOT more.  Tufts is reported by providers
    to be notoriously slow to pay up.  That's no way to keep offering a
    large list of providers.
    
    I can't wait to see how much insurance will cost next year! :-(
    No doubt it'll go up more than most raises.

    I don't like the HMO I was financially forced to join, at all!  I did
    manage to join one that all the doctors I normally visit (not many
    since I am a healthy sort anyhow - my gynecologist and eye doctor are
    members) are members of.  Every time you DO need medical services,
    which you had better hope is not very often, for example a routine
    follow-up visit to your gyn., you have to call up a very haughty,
    snippy bureaucratic office person and beg her to make out the right red
    tape paper so you can do so.  And you have to show up at the
    bureaucrat's office in person to get your redtape, and receive your
    lecture about how if you don't get it all filled out correctly, they
    won't pay a cent!  Now, I don't normally have the use of a car, so I
    don't like this extra errand, which is a half hour drive away, at all. 
    And I don't like the lecture one bit either - I have been taking care
    of my own medical needs, which are few and far between, myself for many
    years, and I don't need some snippy redtape pusher lecturing me about
    it.
    
    The other annoying thing they do is that you can only get one
    month's worth of a prescription at a time.  No matter what.  Even if
    you are going to be out of town for a month, or if making the extra
    errand every month instead of every six months is a pain because of
    transportation problems.  My husband takes a thyroid medication, and he
    will be on it the rest of his life.  It was much more convenient to
    either pick the stuff up one every six months, or, better yet, use the
    mail-order prescription service for it.  The John Hancock run plan,
    back when you could afford to belong to it, was much easier - you made
    your medical appointments, picked up the right redtape from the drawer
    over in the personnel department, filled it out and mailed it in -
    granted they were real slow in processing it, but I usually did not
    have to argue with anyone, listen to stupid lectures, borrow a car
    every few weeks to run extra pointless errands, or otherwise waste my time!
    The HMO is far from cheap, too.  Makes me wonder where all the money is
    going - probably to pay the snippy bureaucrat...
    
    There was NO WAY I was was going to join one of the assembly-line
    medicine places where you never see the same doctor twice.  I like to
    have a good working relationship with the professional people whose
    services I use, even if I only see them once or twice a year.  I've
    been going to the same gyn. for almost twenty years, for example.
    
    /Charlotte (feeling disgruntled this morning!)

    RE: .12
    
    I, too, have to take "maintenance" medications -- thyroid and premarin; 
    I'm with Tufts, and they have a prescription plan which has expanded to
    incorporate long-term medication needs -- 
    
    Ordinary meds are approved for a 1-month period; maintenance meds can
    be issued for a three-month period, at a somewhat reduced rate over
    three individual monthly 'scrips.
    
    Additionally, I like Tufts because I can choose from a lot of
    independent physicians, picked my PCP, but can switch when I need to.  
    
    The price ain't bad -- $3 a visit, usually $8 a 'scrip (monthly), $18
    for a 3-month-er.  (Tho I've received a notice that the visit price
    will increase to $5/visit on 1 January 1993.)
    
    And ... I've found their patient administration office/hotline folks to
    be extremely pleasant, knowledgeable, and helpful.
    
    The only thing I don't like is the limitation on psychotherapy; for me,
    that was a tough one to convert from Hancock, as I had been working
    with the same therapist 2x/week for the past several years, and had to
    scale way down before she and I felt it was time --- but now I'm going
    once a month and paying for it myself, outside the HMO coverage ---
    it's my recovery, and if the HMO won't pay, well then I'll just have to
    recover a little more slowly, and on my terms.
    
    Otherwise, I'm very pleased with the rates, the service, and the rest.

    re: 12
    
    These are exactly the reasons I didn't join the HMO plan.  At least
    with Aetna's Managed Health Care Plan, I can keep all of my doctors.

    Maybe there is a light at the end of the tunnel for other areas, in
    regards to HMO services.
    
    I believe HMOs originated here in Minnesota.  There are enough of them
    here to provide a very competitive environment.  The one I belong to is
    the largest in the area (and also happen to run *all* their operations
    on a large VAX system).  They have very competitive rates ($8.95/week
    for family coverage), clinics located all over the metro area,
    contracts with all the major hospitals, and a wide variety of
    specialists on their staffs.  When you join, you are allowed to visit
    any clinic, you can have a personal doctor (though for emergency visits
    you might end up with a different doctor).  We have been using this one
    for the 9 years I have lived in Minnesota, and I have to say that,
    overall, we have been happy.
    
    My point?  As HMOs become more common, competition will drive them,
    just as it does any service organization, to provide better service for
    lower dollars.  But recognize too, that not all people will be happy
    with HMOs, no matter how good they are.  Some people are just too
    picky.
    
    tgc

    re.12 What HMO are you talking about?

    re .16 - I replied by mail as I don't want to get specific about
    negative comments in a public forum, especially since your mileage may
    vary: one person's unnecessary hand-holding is the next person's
    warm-and-fuzzy, etc.
    
    /Charlotte

I'm surprised that the ratio of DMP2 to DMP1 enrollees has stayed pretty
consistent over the last three years (according to the October Benefits
Bulletin).  When the rates skyrocketed, I switched from DMP2 to DMP1.
I think most people do better with DMP1.  Having 100% hospital-surgical
coverage may give you the warm fuzzies, but there's a good chance you'll
hit the out-of-pocket maximum for non-hospital stuff if you have serious
medical needs.

BTW, I don't eschew HMOs because I'm picky.  None of the HMOs in my area
offer the services I need.  Even with HMO Elect, I'd end up paying more.

    PCS may have improved its prescription policy recently.  Last year they
    instituted something that was a total pain, namely only one month of a
    prescription at a time, and it couldn't be renewed more then ten days before
    they'd calculated that you'd used up the last refill.  Try coordinating
    2 or 3 "maintenance" prescriptions that way, especially when the doctor's
    said "take 1 or 2 pills a day, depending on what you think you need",
    and the paper pushers at PCS only see the "one a day" on the
    prescription, and then figure out how many trips you make to the
    pharmacy each month.
    
    Currently they seem to be allowing three month refills with no hassle.
    

    re .19
    
    There is another service, called Express Pharmacy Services that has a
    deal with DIGITAL that allows 3 months of medecine for $2.  I have
    occassionally been able to get refills early when I wanted to batch my
    orders together.
    
    They are mailorder and actually quite good for maintainence meds.
    
    I don't remember how to get enrolled

    re:.15
    Competition?  A benefit?  When the sky turns chartreuse...
    
    There is plenty of "competition" here in MA.  It means that each plan
    tries to quietly make its terms more screwy than the next, and then the
    next one ratches down its quality to match, while they both up the
    prices!  So long as they treat medicine as an industry for profit
    maximization, rather than for taking care of people, they'll continue
    to find ways to collectively make matters worse.
    
    The bargains in MN are because costs in general are lower there, and
    Digital's contribution (a constant) covers a much larger portion of
    local costs there than it covers here in Eastern MA.

    .12 we must have the same HMO.
    
    I, too, am hypothyroidic and have to take a thyroid stimulator
    mediciation for the rest of my life.  For the past six years I used to
    be able to get 3-6 mnth supply at reasonable cost as the prices
    increased from $2 to $5 per pprescription.  Now I can only get 1 month
    at a time and why?  I pushed this to the max and the answer I recieved
    from 4 different people from the pharmacy to as high as I could find at
    the HMO was that the insurance won't pay for any more than 1 month
    supplies becasue TOO MANY people are sharing/selling their prescript
    drugs to friends, etc.  Sooo, because of the failings of a few the
    majority must pay- even when I asked them to look at my track record of 
    orders/refills, they said too bad.  Not to mention, now the insurance
    company handling my HMO will only pay for generic drugs and if one
    wants name brand, one will have to pay full price or a discounted price
    that is substantially higher than the $5.
    
    In regards mail order? did anyone see the 20/20-60-minute-48-hour-type
    show that dealt with pharmacies selling old outdated discarded
    medications for big time profit; profit because the pharmacist was able
    to pocket the money because there was no way to track these outdated
    drugs.  Some drugs were sold for certain ailments and were just sugar
    pills or even a drug that was totally wrong for the diagnosis. Granted
    my pharmacists may be doing the sdame thing, but at least I get to see
    the bottle the pills come out of before I buy them and not sight
    unseen. (we all know what word[s] I could use here for mail order
    subscribers, but I will refrain from actually using it and just
    reminding all what I could say)
    
    Ogre.

    re .22
    Yes, I got the same answer when I asked how come I have to show up in
    person at the pharmacy once a month to get Paul's thyroid pills instead
    of once every six months like I used to, or better yet get them by
    mail.  I can't imagine who who would be taking someone else's thyroid
    pills - I expect that the extra hormone would be real unhealthy for
    anyone with normal thyroid function.  (Maybe they have seen some abuse
    of some other sort of medications, maybe tranquilizers or something.)
    
    I just find the extra redtape, phone calls to argue with bureaucrats,
    and extra errand runs where I need a car to be a big nuisance, but I
    can't afford the DMP plans anymore so I'm stuck.  I don't like being
    stuck.
    
    /Charlotte

    What PCS told my pharmacist was that the one month limit was to 
    prevent people from "stocking up" if they thought they were going
    to be laid off.
    

        Re: .12

>    I don't like the HMO I was financially forced to join, at all!  I did
>    manage to join one that all the doctors I normally visit (not many
>    since I am a healthy sort anyhow - my gynecologist and eye doctor are
>    members) are members of.  Every time you DO need medical services,
>    which you had better hope is not very often, for example a routine
>    follow-up visit to your gyn., you have to call up a very haughty,
>    snippy bureaucratic office person and beg her to make out the right red
>    tape paper so you can do so.  And you have to show up at the
>    bureaucrat's office in person to get your redtape, and receive your
>    lecture about how if you don't get it all filled out correctly, they
>    won't pay a cent!

        That doesn't sound like either of the HMOs I've been a member of. 
        One of the reasons for joining an HMO is that HMOs don't have
        the paperwork associated with traditional health insurance. 
        When I have had outside referrals I just make an appointment and
        go and the HMO calls and arranges payment.

        When you choose between that HMO and a Digital plan for next
        year, be sure to calculate the cost (in time and mileage) of
        those useless trips.  You may find that the Digital plan is
        cheaper than wasting your time with that HMO.

        Be sure to locate the Digital representative for your HMO and
        describe the problems you have been having.  Digital does have
        some clout to make HMOs change.

        					B.J.

    Please don't let this note start a rat hole, please, please please.
    
    Have you seen the new benefits bulletin?  PCS perscription co-payment
    is now $8.  Beware, quite a lot of medications don't cost $8.  Before
    using your PCS card ask how much the perscription costs, you could
    save yourself a few couple of bucks.
    
    Here's hoping the recession dosn't last much longer.

I have not had a problem with my pharmacy charging me
the current $6 copay if the prescription cost less. I
pay what the presecription costs up to $6.00  If it
costs over $6.00 I just pay $6.00  I am assuming that
this will continue when the copay amount increases to
$8.00   I am sure that all of this depends on the
pharmacy you are using

    My experience has been the same as the last noter.  If a prescription
    does not total $6.00; my pharmacy just charges me the actual cost.
    
    Karen
    

    re .26
    
    We have not seen the new benefits bulletin.  Please post details here.

re .29:

If you haven't seen the BB, complain to personnel.

Open enrollment runs from Nov 16 thru Dec 11.  HMO Elect is expanding
to several new areas.  There are some minor changes to DMP and Dental
Plan coverage.

    So I repeat my request, if someone has seen an advance bulletin on the
    93 benefits, please post the contents here.

To clarify, the only dollar figure in the Benefits Bulletin is the
PCS copayment increase from $6 to $8.  The rest of the numbers won't
be released on VTX until Nov 16.  According to the BB, "Early in November,
you will receive your enrollment kit through interoffice mail.  The
enrollment kit explains your benefit choices in detail and provides
rate information."

    ...Just got this from my PSA....
    
    SUBJECT: MEDICAL RATES FOR 1993
    
    
    
    This is for family coverage
    
    PLAN		1992 wkly 	1993 wkly	% increase
    --------------	---------	---------	----------
    
    DEC Med. Plan #1	9.79		15.39		+ 57 %
    
    DEC Med. Plan #2	23.92		29.73		+ 24 %
    
    
    
    
    
    
    HMO Elect Service 
    area
    -----------------
    DEC Med. Plan # 1		44.35		68.39		+ 54 %
    
    DEC Med. Plan # 2		59.00		83.03		+ 41 %
    
    
    
    
    Outragious !!!!!!!!
    
    Dave Z.

    re: .34
    
    Please remember that the rates you posted are for your location only. 
    Other people in other locations may/will pay a different amount.
    
    Bob

    Under the COBRA laws, you are allowed to continue your medical coverage
    for up to 18 monthes past your termination date, by paying the full
    cost of the coverage (not just the partial contribution you pay as an
    employee). As such, with more pending lay-offs, it might behoove those
    concerned about being TFSOd to inquire as to the COBRA cost of the
    various plans before making a selection during this open enrollment.
    
    Dave

    re .34
    
    What about the HMO rates for 1993 (not the HMO elect)?
    What about the weekly opt out payment rate for 1993?

    Oh, and re: COBRA costs...
    
    If you think what you pay now is bad, be sure you are sitting down when
    they tell you the actual cost for the coverage.
    
    Dave

    
    
    
    As .35 says, these are our area's rates...
    
    
    
    OPT-OUT		1992 = $21.85
    
    			1993 = $24.25
    
    
    
    CYO HMO		1992 = $6.04
			
    			1993 = $15.37           + 154 %
    
    
    DYO HMO		1992 = $8.53
    
    			1993 = $13.47		+ 60 %
    
    
    
    
    Dave Z.

    What is the Opt out rate and HMO rate for ALF?

                             HMO-Elect area:     Outside   Inside
    Digital Medical Plan #1 (1992 - single)	 9.79	   44.35
    Digital Medical Plan #2 (1992 - family)	23.92	   59.00
      
       (These are the numbers from a previous reply,
       VTX US Health Care Choices by Zip Code doesn't show
       anything right at the moment.)

    The thing I find most appalling about these rates, is the
    difference in cost depending on whether you are inside or
    outside of an HMO-Elect area.  For instance, a single
    employee purchasing DMP #1, could pay either $9.72 or $44.35
    depending on where one has the misfortune to live.

    I could understand this disparity if it were related to
    Digital's cost of providing the insurance (an urban area
    like New York city could be higher than a rural area);
    but these prices are set capriciously, at Digital's whim.

    Clearly, Digital sets the higher rates in HMO-elect areas in
    a malevolent manner, to encourage people to choose the
    'competitive' HMOs available.  It reflects quite poorly on
    Digital's HMO choices, and their costs, that Digital needs to
    use such a large stick to force employees out of the Digital
    medical plans.

    A vindictive employee might engage an attorney to encourage
    Digital to use a more reasonable pricing method.

Sounds to me like Digital is contributing less to our medical insurance
expenses than before (no surprise I guess).

I wonder if DEC will come out and actually say how much is due increased
medical costs and how much is due to decreased Digital contribution.

154% increase (cited above) is a little hard to believe.

Lee

    It would be interesting to know how much the *total* cost is. Over here
    in Germany, the cost is split in half (by law) between the employer and
    the employee - the total cost is on the order of magnitude US$
    350/month (i.e. the employee contribution amounts to well over
    $40/week).
    
    On the other hand, at least (Clinton's) statistics say that in total,
    US health care costs per capita are higher than germany's.
    

	In case anyone is interested. I am a contractor with Blue Cross and Blue
Shield HMO. It covers 100% and I never see a bill or fill ANYTHING out ! It is
a family plan and I pay about $1200 every 3 months. I live in Lunenburg Mass and
the rates are much higher the closer you go to Boston. My bill does go up on 
every one I get.

	-Steve-

    re.35 The only different amounts with the Digital Plans (1 and 2) are
    as they were stated earlier in this note (rates outside elect area or
    rates inside elect area). The HMO's all have their own rates, but the
    costs for employees with a particular HMO is the same. Opt out is the
    same rate for everyone also. 
    
    re.36 If you are TFSO'd it is a qualified family status change. You can
    change coverage at that time an elect a different HMO or the DEC plan
    if you wish.
    
    re.41 In Elect area rate vs Outside Elect area rate. -
    I think if you do some actual figures you will understand the
    difference in rates. Even though the rates for the Digital Plans
    outside an Elect area are cheeper - the Elect feature, if you choose it
    and use it properly, could actually be cheeper in the long run with the
    same benefits as the Digital plans - best of both plans if you will.
                

    Wow.  My family DMP2 is going from 23+/wk to 83+/wk 1/1/93.
    Man, I'm gonna need that 100% Outpatient psychiatrist's service
    coverage now!  
    
    Pow!

    re.46  It sounds like a HMO Elect choice was added to your area. You
    might want to do some figures to determine if an Elect choice would be
    better for you than the DMP2. 
                           

    Here in Westchester NY we just received our open enrollment booklet
    I'm still seeing red and fumeing after 10 hours.
    
                        1992        1992
   digital medical 1     9.79        27.27
   digital medical 2    23.92        83.03
    us healthcare       10.07        14.46
    
    I can't see how OUR DEAR COMPANY CAN JUSTIFY STICKING IT TO THEIR
    EMPLOYEES THIS WAY.  WE HAVE NO INFORMATION ABOUT THE (GREAT HMO) THAT
    IS BEING SHOVED DOWN OUR THROAT. I CAN'T SEE A 300+ % INCREASE CAN BE
    JUSTIFED.  YES I AM BITTER AND UPSET. 
    
    For me to keep my existing plan plus being hit the with having more
    flexibility in the company car ( i'm a Services Engineer) it could cost
    me more than $ 120 a week. that is way more than a 10 to 20 percent cut in
    pay.  
    
    I won't go on as much as I would love too
    
    Scott
    

    in -1 the second column is for 1993
    

    Scott,
    
    "Our Dear Company" lost 260 MILLION DOLLARS in the last quarter.  Do
    you expect the Board and Bob Palmer will let that happen again?
    
    We're talking SURVIVAL here, don't you get it?

    RE: last few
    
    	You are lucky, yes lucky! Many of us have been paying these higher
    costs for a year or two. Check the notes for the last 2 years at this
    time of year. To force every on into an HMO the cost of the DEC plan
    went up 400%-600%. I was forced to sign up with HMO elect. I almost
    never go to the HMO. I would rather see my own doctor out of my own
    pocket.
    Jeff Filer

>    "Our Dear Company" lost 260 MILLION DOLLARS in the last quarter.  Do
>    you expect the Board and Bob Palmer will let that happen again?
>    
>    We're talking SURVIVAL here, don't you get it?

Yes, but what about all the talk of being "customer focused"?  I thought we
were supposed to be getting more money from our CUSTOMERS, not our EMPLOYEES!

I guess I was just confused...

I've got customer problems to work out, I don't need financial ones also!

What Pisses me off more than anything is that we have such little time
to evaluate the switch to an HMO!  This is a big decision that most of us must
make.  Besides losing Company "Benefits" i.e. 350% increase in DMP2, an increase
in cost for using a company car.

Mr. Palmer How do you expect us to do our job done when there is so much
more to worry about. I'd rather you say that due to the current financial
problems EVERYONE is taking a pay cut..  Your nickel and diming me to death.. 

I could do without the stress  (Maybe I'll really need DMP2)

Can you say Heart attack!

Oh, by the way I'm on a coffee brake for those who want to say ahhh shudup
and get back to work! :-)

- Mike

    .53

    Mike, I am worried about you man, I see signs of stresses building up.
    this need to be checked out, you should cool down, I suggest you go
    go down right away to the the wiliness center and do some push up and
    20 flips around the place, this will vent off the stress that is trapped 
    in you.

    boy, do we too much stress out there or what?

    /nasser

    
    
    All stressed out and no place to go!!!

    
    Re: .48
    
    FWIW....

    Our high standard of living is catching up with us.  Insurance
    traditionally has been only to keep you from getting wiped out
    financially from a single incident or illness NOT to let you
    continue worry free, insulated from the rigors of life.  Over
    the last several decades we have come to expect everything taken
    care of for us and it is literally sinking us.  The huge increases
    in medical insurance premiums are the evidence that companies,
    not just Digital, are under the same kind of stress that we are
    and are trying to survive and maintain as many jobs as they believe
    they can.

    As bad as it is we are better off than the guy whose company reduced
    his medical benefits from $1M limit to $5K limit because he has
    AIDS and his suit was rejected by the U.S. Supreme Court.   *THAT*
    poor guy has a problem.  I'm not saying that it's easy for any of
    us but only that within the context of what is going on in the US
    right now, DEC is far from the worst case on this subject.

    Steve

    

>    As bad as it is we are better off than the guy whose company reduced
>    his medical benefits from $1M limit to $5K limit because he has
>    AIDS and his suit was rejected by the U.S. Supreme Court.   *THAT*
>    poor guy has a problem.  

No, *THAT* poor guy does not have a problem any longer.

He's dead.

It could be argued that his companies actions had a part in that, but the
US Supreme court didn't want to hear about it.

It is *WE* who have a problem now.  The Court's inaction on this matter has had
the effect of affirming, legally, the lower court's finding that the actions
of the company were legal. That in turn means that any company who self-insures
the medical benefits, as Digital does in the case of DMP1 and DMP2 can change
the terms of the coverage (i.e. limits, restrictions, etc.) AT ANY TIME,
regardless of what agreements were entered into between employee and employer.

Kevin Farlee

re: 
>> As bad as it is we are better off than the guy whose company reduced
>> his medical benefits from $1M limit to $5K limit because he has
>> AIDS and his suit was rejected by the U.S. Supreme Court.   *THAT*
>> poor guy has a problem.

You're right, because that guy is already dead.  Actually, I don't know 
whether that means he has a serious problem, or his troubles are over.

Where's Ross when you need him?  I'm getting pretty disgusted by the whole
system, and that means everything. In the past week I've found out my real
estate taxes are going up about 15%, retroactive to the first of the year,
my health insurance is going up about 8 bucks a week, and if I or a family
member develop a serious illness, they can reduce my coverage to $5K at any
time.  On top of that, we've all got December 7th to worry about. 

It's no wonder Americans are afraid to spend a nickel for non-essentials,
and the Japanese are still kicking the crap out of us.  Apparently this
December 7th will be no different.

It's time to get the house in order.

Nasser,

I've been working in NYC for the last five months, normally I work on 
Long Island.  A combination of no extra pay for the 15 hours extra a week 
that I put in traveling, LIRR Trains, inconsiderate commuters, possible loss 
of comapny car (no money to buy a car), Increase in Health costs, no time to
research HMO's, dead tired from getting home late getting up early, and a
7 month old baby that want's to play at 3:30 am in the morning.  Yes, I guess
you can say I'm stressed out.  Luckily next week I am taking 3 days off
for opening day of hunting season.  I don't care if I don't see a thing.
I'm there to relax and forget about it all!  But thanks for being concerned!

- Mike

>>> Where's Ross when you need him?

Well, Ross Perot's company has been accused of firing people when their medical
expenses became too great.

Some TV show did a piece supposedly showing that a woman recently hired by his
company was fired when it became known that she had a child with an expensive
disability.

    The situation outlined by Kevin a few back could hit us big time.
    Saw on the a.m. TV show that the insurance commission in the state
    of Florida is basically backing up "self-insured" companies on
    changing their benefits without notice...this could go as far as
    dropping coverage altogether.  The insurance commission was backed up
    by Florida's judicial system.  There is quite a bit of interest here
    in Georgia because our laws are identical....and because Georgia has
    a rather high number of companies that are self-insured.  The reporter
    was basically telling folks "better start talking to your legislators
    and hope they can influence our insurance commissioner".
    
    I don't understand all the finer points, but I gather at this point
    that some states have stricter laws regarding what self-insured com-
    panies can or cannot do; hope Massachusetts is one of them.
    
    I don't mind paying for my DMP2; heck DEC covered me free of charge
    the first 10 years I worked here.  I don't have any dependents, but
    I can emphatize with the impact on those folks who do not feel that the
    HMO or HMO Elect offerings will provide their families the "quality"
    of medical coverage required to meet their basic needs.
    
    I've sensed for quite some time that there are certain areas of the
    country to *do* have very high quality HMOs; my one and only "taste" of
    one here in Georgia a few years ago leaves me cold......and they al-
    most left me with a permanent respiratory condition because they ig-
    nored early symptoms that led to me walking around with pneumonia.
    I did what another noter mentioned; I went to my own doctor and paid for
    the antibiotics I needed totally out of pocket.  It still cost DEC
    though, because the pneumonia kept me out of work for 3 weeks.  Had
    the HMO treated me when I went in initially instead of suggesting "over
    the counter" meds, the pneumonia could have been avoided.
    
    Should my geography be forced into the HMO Elect (I assume this will
    happen); I'll probably stay with DMP2 unless that option is removed.
    As a single person, the 300% increase in medical coverage would basi-
    cally put me back into the salary range of what I was making in the
    1986-87 time frame.
    
    I'm still having a difficult time with the argument that DEC is just
    doing what other companies have been doing.....  A friend who was
    cut from DEC last summer and is now working for an new ATD is getting
    a *very* generous amount to pay for her own medical coverage.
    
    Maybe being part of such a large group isn't an advantage any longer??
    
    Of course, if the AMA doesn't want a national health plan shoved down
    their throats, they'd better start working on a solution rather than
    being a big part of the problem.
    
    K
    
    
    

	It's becoming increasingly obvious that this country
	needs Bill Clinton in a big way.  Let's hope he delivers
	on his promise to solve the health care problem, pronto.

	What kind of insurance is it that doesn't guarantee you a thing?
	Now we need insurance insurance.

    
    
    In any case, don't place the blame on the Supreme Court or
    the local courts.  They are simply telling us what the law
    says.  In the area of self-insurance, companies seem to be
    able to do just about whatever they like.  If we want that
    changed then phoning our state and federal legislators is
    the next step.  It won't help to blame the courts when there
    is simply no law for them to enforce.
    
    Steve
    

    Mikey,
    
    PLEASE...watch where you're shooting!!!
    
    Marc

Marc,

The stress is gone, but I still have the gun! :-)

- Mike 

    Mikey-
    
    Stay out of the office for a while, OK Buddy???
    
    Marc