Conference 7.286::digital

    re .0
    
    >Chiropractors don't cure anything.  
    
    I think we need more than your opinion.
    
    Dick

    FYI - 
    
    1- CMHC does not cover chiropractic care
    
    2- after a car accident, where i was rear ended, after initial
    treatment by a back doctor, i was referred to a chiropractor that 
    helped me immensely.  I know quite a few people who have opted for
    this type of help.
    
    3- before you start making strong statements against a profession that
    has helped many people, please take the time to do some research.  
    Blind statements such as yours could defer someone from some much
    needed help.
    
    

    e: .0
    
    
    I agree with .1,  if anything, I'd say the abuse was in the opposite
    direction.  I know of many people that spen thousands of dollars on
    "therapy", repeatedly, when a visit or two to the local bone-cracker
    may have taken car of their problem.  
    
    I use chiro maybe once or twice a year, and don't put in for it. 
    Didn't 
    	event realize it was covered...
    
    But after havien gone the "medical route" years ago, I find this to be
    a much better alternative.  It works for me.
    
    
    Jim
    

    Fallon Community Health Plan doesn't cover chiropratic care.
    

I will try to be calm and not attack the person who wrote the base note.

Now:

My wife could barely walk for quite some time UNTIL she started seeing
a chiropractor. Now she can walk, although not for long distances.
Now she can take care of our daughter and herself. 

This is after getting a MRI scan (about $700-800, plus another $700-800
for interpretation) and being told that there was nothing that could
be done.

Now, if she can't walk and take care of herself and our daugter, I
would have to take time off from work to do that. (Taking care of
sick family members is covered by sick time.) That would cost MORE
than the chiropractor.

There, I managed not to flame.

    re .0
    
    Please be open to the idea that chiropractors DO help some
    people.  Perhaps you had a bad experience with one, but that
    shouldn't preclude someone else from choosing to use a 
    chiropractor.  
    
    For example, I fell down the stairs and did some damage to my 
    knee.  Xrays and other tests didn't show anything specifically
    wrong or 'broken'.  The next step the medical doctor wanted to
    take was arthroscopic surgery and then most likely a program
    of physical therapy!  I said I had to think about it (my knee 
    was sore but I was still mobile).
    
    I've used a chiropractor in the past with success so I tried it 
    again to get a different perspective.  I had a couple of office 
    visits and was given a program of physical therapy to do at home 
    (lots of exercises) for a few weeks.  The result is a functioning 
    knee with no further problems.  Yes, it took a while with lots
    of discipline to do my exercises every day, but I'd choose a
    few weeks of exercise over surgery any day.
    
    I'd bet if you looked around, you'd probably find dentists that 
    don't help some people, and some that probably aren't the most 
    honest when filing claims - so should we eliminate dental coverage 
    too?
    
    /cms/

    RE: Base note
    
    Get a life!  I had back problems since high school. I went to Dr after
    Dr, X-ray's, exercises, tests! All told me "there's nothing wrong with
    your back!"  Then why couldn't I get out of bed for 4-5 days at
    atime?!  And then spending another 2 weeks trying to walk straight!
    
    I finally was convinced to go to a Chiropractor about 9 years ago.
    
    Since he "fixed" me my problems have been greatly reduced (85-90%)
    and the frequency of the problems also reduced. Now when it acts up
    I visit once or twice and my 3-4 week problem spent in agony now
    is better in 3-4 days with only a slight level of discomfort,
    relatively speaking!
    
    Look at your $3.00 aspirin for a hospital visit before you go shooting 
    off at the mouth on something you know nothing about!
    
    Mike 

    "TAKE CARE Colorado" doesn't in Colorado Springs...

    I wish they would.... I personally am getting tired of the OTHER
    medical care having the "drug pusher mentality" when it comes to health
    care..... Lately, everything can/will be fixed by popping a pill, or
    taking an elixir.... 
    
    Chiropratic care might just help cure some problems... BUT, it would
    also help to expose some of the fraud going on in the medical
    community, amongst doctors.....
    
    PLEASE, don't give me this..... if you don't like your doctor, change
    stuff... In the past 11 years I have had many doctors.., and the same
    issues with "pill for this, tonic for that"..
    
    Presently, my son is (and has for a long time) been going to the doctor
    for stomach problems.... The solution is always some type of drug.. I
    suggested to the doctor, that maybe some change in diet (my son eats
    nothing, "because the girls won't like him")... The doctor down played
    the diet thing, suggesting to my son that malox or mylanta would
    help... then saying... "oh ya... you might think about eating more
    veggies or something like that."
    
    I'm not saying that my son's problem could be solved by a chiroprator,
    but rather that there are alternatives to the present medical norms. We
    as "healthcare resipients" should demand these areas be explored and
    utilized. Who knows, it may help to bring medical costs under control.
    
    Just my opinion.!
    
    Bob G.
    

    
    I think the author of the base note might be evidence of a case
    of sour grapes.
    
    Steve
    

    
    
    My wife is a registered nurse who has worked in a number of different
    units in a community hospital.  She has a number of criticisms of 
    the current health care system, but in its defense she also is quick
    to point out that the 'take a pill' emphasis of many doctors is
    directly attributable to what their patients are asking for.  There
    are many doctors who prescribe exercise, dietary changes, etc. but
    whose patients refuse to take responsibility for their health.  Many
    patients want to go and have some painless, cheap, and easy solution
    to a health problem of their own creation and then when the doctor
    can't perform a miracle, sue him/her for not 'fixing' it for them.
    
    Steve
    

	CMHC does not cover chiropractic care, but they do cover
	care given by a `Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine' with a
	CRF from your PCP.

	<Dr. Denise Cantin, Shrewsbury MA., tell her I sent you~>

					Dan

    RE .10

    You may be right..., BUT why should Chiropractic care not be made an
    option..... Your issues don't cover Chiropractic at all... That is the
    topic...

    My mention of "take a pill" was one example used to bring out a point.
    That point is.... the reason Chiropractic isn't excepted is due to the
    pharmaceutical companies and other medical related businesses lobbying
    to keep Chiropractors out of the "official health care system"... Thus
    these businesses are able to sell their products...

    The health care providers such as HMOs, should be able to separate
    themselves from this type of practice.... But, I;m mighty afraid they
    possibly are getting $$s from the same businesses.

    Just my opinion!

    Bob G.

    For a good discussion of a variety of medical practices including
    chiropractic, osteopathic, allopathic, homeopathic, accupuncture,
    Christian science, and a bunch of others, take a look at the book 
    "Health and Healing," by Dr. Andrew Weil, MD.  
    
    In brief, he concludes: all of them work, at least part of the
    time.  All of them can claim truly legitimite cures of real problems.
    Furthermore, all of them (including Official Medical Establishment
    Allopathic) do *not* work, at least part of the time.
    
    I'm sure all of them have their charlatans.  But all practices
    also have their qualified, legitimate practitioners, too, who
    truly help their patients.

    Many of the HMO's do not cover Chiropractic care, and since I'm
    enrolled in one (Tufts) I pay the cost of Chiropractic out of
    pocket without reimbursement. Considering that a once per month
    visit costs me $30.00 it's far cheaper to me to pay the man who
    can keep me walking without pain and working without sick days
    to stay on a maintenance schedule with him than go without that
    service whether or not it's 'covered'.
    
    The base noter should read a little bit more on the subject before
    asserting that it does no good. Those of us with chronic back problems
    who use Chiropractor's mostly swear by these folks. The alternatives
    usually start off with getting some surgeon who'll charge you a
    bazillion dollars to remove a disc from your back, and who starts
    his speech with "there is a chance that you could end up worse off
    than you are now". The last time I visited one of these people the
    odds he cited me were 60-40! On the other hand, the Chiropractor
    gave me far better odds, like 100% able to remove the pain and
    with normal maintenence keep it in check. To date, he's still doing
    it and we're talking 10 plus years now. Several friends who opted
    for the disc removal route, now have had to do that twice or three
    times as the whole process encourages even more need to have it done
    in some cases, not all, but some. So, given a choice between 40%
    chance of a wheelchair, and 100% chance that the problem can be 
    fixed and maintained, I'll opt for the 100% every time.
    
    Chiropractic might not work for everyone but it certainly works for
    some. 
    
    As far as costs goes, like I said, my once per month office visit costs
    me $30.00. Trot into a Back Surgeon for an office visit to just talk
    about your back problem, and then pay (last price I paid) 20% of $180.
    Financially it's cheaper to see the Chiropractor. Heck it's even 
    cheaper to see the Chiropractor, then to drag myself into any emergency
    room (Upwards of $50.00 because you crossed their threshold) and have
    them tell me there's nothing they can do about it except prescribe
    bed-rest (usually one week or more) and here take this pill which will
    treat the pain but won't cure the problem underneath it all anyways.
    
    With a wife who's a Registered Nurse, and who also sees a Chiropractor
    I figure I've got some pretty good information on whether these folks
    do any good or not. Given that I think the basenote is so far offbase
    it can't even see the ballpark.
    
    
    
    

    I'll only bite in that the basenoter has a goood tactic to spark up
    "conversattion".  In a world of optionizing everything and privatizing
    even more, maybe certain medical treatments that one would never use
    should be made an option and deductions adjusted accordingly.  After
    all, I can't get pregnant and was never given 8 weeks maternity to
    stay home with my wife and newborn(s)- why do I have to pay for that.
    
    It's an old story and I believe (IMO) one would find that that pakage
    deal is probably cheaper than buying only the options one wants.
    Someone in the know want to fill this in: Is it cheaper for the whole
    shmoo, or can options be bought for a few dollars more?
    
    Ogre.

    oops! last line .16 should be ...dollars LESS.

    Basically, this topic is addressing Hancock plan vs HMO's (Hancock
    covers this expense and HMO's don't). Most HMO's are much cheeper in
    cost, but your are giving up certain things. 
    
    This company has been trying to control benefit costs by "moving"
    people into managed care (HMO's). Because of cost restrictions the
    HMO's are forced to identify areas not to cover (this topic talks about
    one of them) to save on operating expenses. 

    As the author of the base note, I wish to thank you all for your
    replies.  Actually, I'm sitting here with what I think is a ruptured
    disc in my lower spine and wondering if I can safely go to a
    chiropractor (I have an appt with the M.D. tomorrow and I know what he
    will say).  I thought I could spark some favorable comments about
    chiropractic care, and boy, did I!  I was surprised that no one spoke
    in support of my .0 note.
    
    I still have a fear of them that is very basic, and I have had some bad
    billing experiences with more than one.  My daughter uses a
    chiropractor, as it is the only relief she can get for a curved spine.
    
    And, I'm not sure that optional coverage for several specific medical
    coverages, as has been discussed, is not in order. 
    
    Thanks again.  I still can't decide on going- thought I'd ask the M.D.
    tomorrow and try to read between the lines after he throws up on me.
    
    CW

       You may find that a Chiro. won't touch a rupured disk. 
       A lot of the 'fears' of them around here (Mass) stems from the fact
    that they were illegal in the state until recently. People assumed that
    since the state thought they were evil, they had to be. We've all
    become very much more wary of the state when they try and 'watch out for
    us'. I remember when every road leading into N.H. had a chiropractic
    office at the state line. Right next to the beer and cigarette store
    and the Justice of the Peace.
                                  Dneny

re: .19

Be glad to share my experience in this area.

1. Lot's of lower back, hip, and right leg pain (4th and 5th lumbar herniated).

2. Orthopedist says; "Exercise".... (but it hurts...!)

3. Chiropractor (after 8 visits) did wonders for my tension headaches, nothing for
	my lower back.

4. Neuro-surgery unit at Lahey Clinic does a laminectomy (70-80% of 5th and 40% of
	4th lumbar disks removed).  Ahhhhh, relief!

5. 9 years later, when I get lazy (lack of exercise) or do dumb things like NOT
	lift with my legs, I pay......   but, still better than it was 9 years ago. 


	Bruce

    The author of .0 might have had a bad experience, or might never have
    been in an environment where someone had benefited from an alternative
    modality, like Chiropractic.  There also exists a lot of
    misunderstanding and mistrust of traditional and more esoteric forms of
    osteopathic medicince, like Upledger Cranial Sacral Therapy, as well as
    homeopathy and massage therapy.  After several thousand years of
    successful use, acupunture is still listed as experimental by the U.S.
    government, and, because of that rating, most health insurance will not
    cover acupuncture treatments.
    
    For skin problems I had the choice of taking tetracyclene every day
    indefinitely (Rx was 10 years ago at Lahey Clinic).  Back then, being
    completely shy of trying alternative care, my common sense was good
    enough not to go for the tetracyclene approach.  Even now, dry skin
    problems are treated with steroid creams, instead of a referal to an
    alternative practicioner.  I am very happy with acupuncuture
    treatments.      
    
    I attended a course this summer with a gynecologist.  She practicies in
    a hospital in western Mass.  She said she is feeling more and more
    comfortable with referring her patients with fertility problems to an
    acupuncturist, and according to her story, with great success.  The
    doctor keeps the referals quiet, because her hospital just would not go
    for something "like that".
    
    As more "traditional doctors" continue these referals, that will be one
    of many paths to acceptance of alternative forms of health care.
    
    Charles Norton

    Using the base noter's logic, Digital should abandon EAP, medical
    coverage for chemical dependency, or coverage for psychiatric
    counseling because these benefits cover afflictions that have no cure.
    
    Mark.

>    	Chiropractors don't cure anything.  They only make you feel better
>    for the time being.  If weporvide coverage on that basis, then why not
>    cover my aspirin, beer, and golf??
    
    There is quite a lot that is "covered on that basis": insulin for
    diabetics, chemotherapy to prolong life for incurable cancers,
    AZT for HIV positives, etc.
    
    These are all treatments for incurable illnesses that make you feel
    better for the time-being.
    
    While the ultimate achievement in medicine is a "cure", you must
    realize that helping (or "allowing") us to live with our problems is 
    a large part of medical care.
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    
    I feel compelled to relate my "chiropratic story".
    
    At the age of about 24, the day after a grueling tennis match, my back
    "gave out" getting into a car.
    
    I managed to get home and flop into bed.  That was the worst day of my
    life.  I could not get out of bed to feed or relieve myself, nor could 
    I even reach the phone. 
    
    Fortunately the next day, I was able to reach a phone.  Eventually,
    after some rest, my back got better.
    
    The next four years had a repeating story: every time I partook of any
    form of exercise (and I do mean "any"), my back would "give out".  I
    had to give up exercise and I am very sports oriented.  I also missed
    a LOT of days of work.
    
    The various doctors I visited all said "standard lower lumbar pain,
    lots of people have it, you have to learn to live with it".
    
    I was gaining weight, feeling horribly out of shape and then I came
    across an ad in the yellow pages that said "Back Pain: YOU DO NOT NEED
    TO SUFFER!".  
    
    I had always regarded chiropracters as modern day witch doctors but
    I was so desperate that I made an appointment.  What did I have to
    lose?
    
    When I got into the Chiro's office, they handed me a pamphlet on the
    "Theory of Chiropractic".  I read it and nearly ran out of the office
    right there.
    
    It basically said that all of life's problems boil down to spinal
    problems - oh my god!  They really ARE witch doctors.  At the moment I
    was ready to leave, they called me into the treatment room and like
    a fool I went into the room.
    
    OK let's make a long story short.  After the first adjustment I felt
    like my spine was a rusty hinge that finally got some oil.  I mean I
    could instantly twist about 15 degrees more than when I had walked in
    and felt better doing it.
    
    Today, I play volleyball at a pretty competitive level (USVBA tournaments)
    several times a week in addition to working out, playing golf (don't
    kid yourself, golf can be tough on the back), tennis, jog,  everything
    and have had basically negligable problems with my back.  Most of the
    times I have problems it's because I just don't warm up properly.
    
    Chiropractic care made my life MUCH better when conventional medicine
    offered no hope. 
    
    END OF TESTIMONIAL
    
    

    FYI, Harvard Community Health Plan (my HMO) doesn't cover
    chiropractic, either.  I didn't know John Hancock did...
    
    This is a bit off the subject, but I would like an opinion:
    The muscles in my shoulders and upper back are always in knots,
    probably from scrunching up at the terminal all day long.  Exercise
    keeps them reasonably loose, but I can hear them creaking and
    crunching all day.  Is this a condition that chiropractic might
    help?  I'm sore!

    When we with MTHP, my wife had a bad back during her pregnancy. The
    doctors conceeded that the only things that they could do involved
    drugs etc, which they didn't wan't to do because of her pregnancy. We
    ended up paying for our own Chiropractor, who did remedy the
    problems...
    
    q
    

    
    re: .25 I don't know if chiropractic will help, but massage therapy
    certainly will.  I'm tense in the same place, for the same reason.
    Of course, regular physical exercise/activity will help, too.
    
    If you (or anyone else) would like a recommendation in the Andover, 
    Mass., area, send mail.
    
    Cq

    
    For the past 2 years I have had pain in my lung/shoulder blade area.
    Because my HMO DOES NOT cover chiropractic care I went the conventional
    medicine way. My Primary care physician prescibed pain medication, said
    it could be stress, sent me to a lung specialist(x-rays proved
    negative). Together these doctors could not help me. I knew all along
    that based on previous visits to the chiro(pre-1990 when I had John
    Hancock Ins) that my back needed some adjustment but I did not want to
    pay for the care that my INSURANCE would NOT provide.
    
    I bit the bullet and went to the chiro and after 2 visits the pain
    was gone. I went for a third visit as well within a 2 week time frame.
    Did it work? YES? But due to scoliosis(sp) of the spine and a fairly
    active lifestyle(excersise/chasing young children) I sometimes get
    reoccuring pain. Will I go back? I would love to but I CAN'T afford
    to pay $$ for every visit because CMHC will not pay for it. 
    
    Nobody wins in this case except the Insurance companies who continue to
    make exhorbitant amounts of money while not providing the "cheapest"
    possible medical care(chiropractic). 

    re. 28   Its true that your HMO (CMHC) or any of the HMO's don't cover
    chiropractic, but you can still get some coverage if you elect the HMO
    Elect plan (in this area they are Harvard, Fallon and Mathew Thorton).
    
    The major drawbacks with HMO Elect are deductibles ($300 single and
    $900 family (3 or more) per year). After your deductible you pay 30% of 
    reasonable and customary expenses for out of network services.
    
    If you are planning ongoing chiropractic care HMO Elect could be a good
    way to help with your expenses, but every individual should look at the
    numbers (dollars) carefully. 
    
    For example; If your a member of CMHC and you have single coverage
    ($7.73 per week) and you know you will be needing chiropractic care on
    a bi-weekly or bi-monthly basis (say $50. per visit). 
    If the person in this example signed on with Harvard HMO Elect (4.53
    per week) (I use Harvard because its more expensive than Fallon) on
    weekly premiums alone this person would save $166.40 per year.
    Therefore, using this example after the third chiropractic visit your
    HMO Elect deductible will be satisfied and every visit after the third
    will be covered at 70% (if visits are $50 each).
    
    Now, I put this information in here because I know a lot of people
    don't understand this feature. I really don't want to get into a
    contest about our health plans. I simply put this information in here
    because people were talking about "carve out plans" and how 
    Digital should find a way to cover or not cover certain services. Thats
    what HMO Elect is about. Some of the other features of this Elect
    option are being able to go where you want when you want out of your
    HMO area (it will cost you 30% though). 
    
    One other thing, most HMO's do not cover *long term* therapy (check with
    member services at your HMO to find out). If your in a HMO that does
    not cover long term therapy this HMO Elect feature could be invaluable.
    
                                                                           

    re: .29
    If Digital would expand HMO Elect to include Tufts HMO I'd gladly
    sign up.  As it is, I can't get HMO Elect unless I want to drive over
    1/2 hour to a doctor who is in one of the few plans participating
    in the HMO Elect program.  My doctor, a member of Tufts, is a 
    5-minute drive.  With a kid who has the usual ongoing array of kid
    diseases, it's just not sensible to swap a 5-minute drive for a
    half-hour drive.

    re.30  The company tries to offer HMO's within a half hour of where
    employees reside, HMO Elects are figured the same way. Some employees
    do not have an option of joining an HMO Elect at all because there
    isn't one in their service area. Not all HMO's want
    to be a Digital HMO Elect offering (I'm not sure about Tufts).  
    
    Again, HMO Elect isn't for everyone. Every individual should carefully
    consider their own circumstances and figure out whats best for them and
    their families.
                                          

    My chiropractor is the reason I'm not crawling around on all fours.
    Like many others, I started out with orthopedic surgeons, the tests,
    the estimates, the percentages of total relief and didn't like the
    results.  I can only imagine the cost to DEC if I had let these guys
    operate (the estimated time off work and in a partial body cast was
    unbelievable...but so was the pain)!!  My problems are complicated by
    arthritis setting into the area so I knew the pain was something I
    would have to deal with from here on out - I found a chiropractor.
    
    Just a few suggestions:
    
    1.	I personally didn't depend on the yellow pages; I found other
    	co-workers who used one particular group close to my old facility.
    	They were well pleased and it was a good referral for me.  My
    	current chiropractor came out of that group to start his own
    	practice.
    
    2.	Initially it did take frequent visits to sort out several areas of
    	discomfort; but now I'm in a "maintenance mode".  Unless I really
    	do something stupid, 1 visit a month keeps me fairly comfortable
    	and my chiropractor has shown me methods of alleviating minor
    	problems so that a visit is not always required.  This eliminates
    	the need for strong pain killers (I'm beyond the aspirin stage);
    	and hopefully will prevent other problems brought on by long-term
    	use of such drugs, i.e. ulcers, kidney and/or liver damager <---
    	quite common when using anti-inflammatories steadily.
    
    3.  My chiropractor told me up front that he was not a miracle worker,
    	nor could he cure all; but considering the "no guarantees" from
    	the orthopedist either, I decided to give it a shot.
    
    4.	I've personally witnessed my chiropractor telling a few other
    	people who were coming in new that their particular problems could
    	not be fixed by chiropractic.  One Sunday afternoon I was there while he
    	applied hot & cold compresses and tried to help someone who was
    	in extreme pain; but I heard him urging her to see a qualified MD
    	because his attempting an adjustment for her type of problem could
    	possibly do further damage.  (Yes, my chiro HAS opened his office
    	for me on a Sunday when I was having a particularly severe problem;
    	not too many MDs will do that any longer.....if it's a weekend or
    	holiday you are usually relegated to an emergency room)!! <---more
    	expensive for DEC I would imagine.
    
    There are good and bad in all professions; we do need doctors to assist
    in keeping us well, I just believe there is room for some alternatives
    too....alternatives that may just allow folks to decrease sick time and
    be more productive.
    
    Karen
    
    PS:  For the person who asked; an adjustment does wonders in getting
    	 out stiffness between shoulder blades and headaches brought on by
    	 stress and tight neck muscles.  Massage therapy didn't help me
    	 much with these problems and was fairly expensive in my geography.
    

    Another way of paying for non-conventional or non-covered medical
    expenses is the Health Care Reimbursement Account. It allows payment
    of such expenses in pre-tax dollars.
    
    Linda

    is chiropractor the same as the one they stick these very small needles
    on top of nervous Venus ? if so, then *this* is a medical procedure and
    it should be covered by your insurance. 

    /nasser
    whO_still_would_like_to_become_a_brain_surgon_one_day

    re: .34 No, chiropractor is where they fix you by pushing around on
    your back to move things into place. Acupuncture is where they stick
    little needles in you. It's also what finally fixed my fathers back
    trouble after "regular" doctors said nothing could be done and 
    chiropractors failed.

    		Alfred

    Since our Chiropractor sees a lot of Digital employees, she found she
    had lost a lot of business when many employees dropped John Hancock.
    We spoke to her about this and she said she was really feeling the pinch.
    She also mentioned that she can and will make special arrangements for
    those no longer covered by insurance.  Most Chiropractors are small
    offices and pretty flexible. They often will set a monthly payment that
    covers up to X amount of visits per month. The price she quoted us was
    very reasonable (can't remember exactly what it was though).
    
    If you need Chiropractics and no longer have coverage, check out these
    special arrangements.  Chiros need to eat too, and would welcome the
    extra business, I'm sure. 
    
    Jodi-

�             <<< Note 2155.34 by STAR::ABBASI "I love DECspell" >>>
�    /nasser
�    whO_still_would_like_to_become_a_brain_surgon_one_day

	Nasser,

	The road to becoming a "surgon" is long and hard.  I suggest you have 
	an introductory brain surgery first, to see if you really like it.  
	Couldn't hurt.

	--Mike

    Nasser, don't listen to this guy.  You need a brain transplant like I
    need a wool overcoat!
    
    Dick, who will continue to live in the Caribbean where the temperature
    never gets below 65F.

    
    I will take the wool overcoat and the brain transplant please!!!

    
    .33 made an excellent suggestion. I have used the Health Care
    Reimbursement account for these types of expenses, and one really
    nice feature is that all the money you plan to put into the account 
    is made available to you at the start of the calendar year. 
    
    It's one option that made my switch from JH to and HMO easier. 
    The things the HMO does not cover get covered by this fund. 

    The reimbursement accounts are a very nice feature, but make sure you
    don't over estimate your weekly deductions (money you will pay out
    during the year). Money in the reimbursement accounts that isn't used
    does not get returned to employees..

    .41:
    
    I, and others, have wondered what is done with unused monies in such
    reimbursement accounts.  Could you settle this question?
    
    Dick

    The tax law that makes these accounts "tax free" requires that
    the unused monies *not* be returned to you.
    
    I think Digital is allowed to use them for other health related
    benefits.  Can anyone confirm this part?
    
    Elaine  

	I recall seeing wording in a descriptions of these plans to 
	the effect that unspent funds are used to defray the cost
	of administering the plan.

					Tom_K

    
    Re: .12
    
    > You may be right..., BUT why should Chiropractic care not be made an
    > option..... Your issues don't cover Chiropractic at all... That is the
    > topic...
    
    I'm not disagreeing with this point.  I was simply responding to the
    complaint about doctor's who are too quick to prescribe drugs.  It
    isn't all their fault.
    
    Steve
    

   re .13
    
    > .. the book "Health and Healing," by Dr. Andrew Weil, MD.  
    
    This well-known as a flake in his hometown.. he pushes 'toning' (using
    the voice to cure medical situations) and 'chakra tuneups'.
    
    However, just because he's a loss doesn't mean that chiropractic isn't
    great, and that .0 is way off.  .0 is missing the boat on not condemning 
    the EAP program and insurance supported counseling services.
    
    karl moeller
    tucson arizona
    "Dr. Andy"'s hometown

    re: .46
    
    Have you read the book?  I think you may be rushing to judgement on
    insufficient evidence.  Although Weil certainly proposes some 
    unconventional ideas, for the most part I've found all his books
    (I think I've read most, if not all of them) to be basically sound
    and logical.  

.46>    karl moeller
.46>    tucson arizona
.46>    "Dr. Andy"'s hometown
    
    Gee, is Dr. Ron Fease stil advertising on radio there?

  >Gee, is Dr. Ron Fease stil advertising on radio there?
    
    sure !  In fact, he's my chiropractor !
    
    NOT

    Has anyone heard of or used a home massaging machine known as "The Back
    Machine"  manufactured and sold by Back Technology company??
    
    Several years ago I was an unwilling participant in a rear end
    collision, in which I was stopped and a Ford Bronco moving at about
    50mph rear ended me.  After many months and over 150 physical therapy
    treatments, I had reached maximum medical improvement meaning that I
    was going to be disabled and in pain for the rest of my life.  This
     was based on opinions of several doctors including orthopedic and
    neurological disciplines.  After the traditional therapy I underwent
    a series of treatments with my local chiropractors office and he was
    able to obtain a percentage of decrease in pain and increase in
    mobility within a matter of months.  He went on to explain that in
    a violent physical manuver such as a involved in a collision, one
    of the many problems that develop is that the back  muscles spasm to
    protect themselves from damage due to over stretching and tend to 
    remain in that cramped, spasmed condition.  Massage, movement of
    muscles, actually beating on muscles ( in a very controlled manner)
    plus application of heat, traction and extension all contribute to
    loosening up the muscle and retraining them to let go.  These were the
    results that he was able to obtain and they were beneficial.  Problem is 
    I had to go 3 times per week and spend about an hour in his office PLUS
    the time spent in commuting. 
    
    	 Anyway, to make a long story longer, I recently noticed in the
    local newspaper an advertisment for the BACK MACHINE and called the
    company asking for sales literature and a video which was available.
    
    It seems that the design of this machine is based on rollers which
    not only massage the area of the back as you roll over them but also
    provide support for your head as you extend the cervical portion of 
    the spine.  The purpose is to loosen the back muscles so that they
    are not cramped or spasmed and also to restore a normal range of
    motion.  I have sent similar principles utilized by a machine in 
    my chiropractors office that would move a roller upon and down the
    spine several times a minutes for 10-15 minute periods.  Based upon
    statements made in the advertising package, this machine has been
    developed by orthopedic doctors and has several endorsements from
    doctors and professional in multiple health fields ie sports medicine,
    chiropractic, therapists etc. 
    
    Has anyone  heard of, used or know someone who has used this machine??
    If it works as advertised, it may be a viable alternative to periodic
    chiropractor visits.  The cost is $1200.00 which if you have back
    problems may be considered cheap depending upon the results that you
    obtain.
                                 
    And can this contraption qualify for the HCRA program?? Would a
    prescription be required or could I just send the paid invoice through
    the system.
    
    

    >>               <<< Note 2155.50 by GRANPA::BPALUS >>>
    >>                -< Is this a viable alternative?? >-
    
    Simple answer, yes.  My roommate has had chronic back problems most of
    his life.  He's gone though "traditional" treatments, and sees a
    chiropractor regularly.  He bought one of those machines two months
    ago.  After two weeks he was ready to send it back, claiming it didn't
    help.  He called the company, they urged him to keep trying it for two
    more weeks.  He did, and his back started feeling better.  These days
    he claims he hasn't felt this good in years.
    
    ... Bob
    

    Bob:
    
    Glad to hear your roommate is doing so well with the machine; but I've
    seen ads for it and it is exactly like the one in my chiropractor's
    office.  I like laying on the table myself after an adjustment; but
    the tables are meant to be a supplement to the chiropractic adjustment,
    they'll never be able to replace the chiropractor.  On Tuesday, my
    chiropractor mentioned that he had paid approx $1,200 for his table.
    
    My guess is your friend is feeling better because the table helps with
    muscle spasms, but if you get some disks out of alignment the table
    isn't going to put those disks back into their proper alignment.  Per-
    haps folks who are experiencing some back pain because of sports
    activity or the like might find the table will fill the bill; but I'd
    hate to think that anyone with serious back problems would count on
    the table removing all their pain.
    
    Personally, IF I ever find myself with $1,200 to spare I'd like to
    get one of the tables for myself; but I know better than to think it
    will replace my chiropractor :-)
    
    Karen
    

    Karen ...
    
    I never said it was a cure-all ... my roommate has been seeing a
    chiropractor on a regular basis for years ... and still does.  The back
    machine is a supplement to his regular treatments.  What it provides is
    daily treatment ... most folks who see chiropractors don't do so every
    day.  As you say, it's a supplement to treatment, not a replacement.
    
    Nor do I want to sound like a commercial for the machine.  But he
    thinks it was well worth the investment.  How much would you be willing
    to pay to live your life without being in pain every waking hour?  Only
    you can answer that question.
    
    ... Bob
    

    Bob:
    
    No problemo.....if you mentioned the table was to be a supplement
    to the chiropractic care, I missed it....sorry.
    
    As you can see from my note, if I had the $$$$$ I would definitely
    purchase one of the tables for home.  When I think of the times I've
    fallen asleep on the table in the doc's office; if I could afford
    one of the tables, I probably could get rid of my bed :-)
    
    Karen
    

    Reading this note has been very interesting.  I'm glad to see so many
    people who have been helped by chiropractic.  My grandfather is a
    doctor of chiropractic, so I was raised around this type of natural
    health care.  I see a chiropractor now also (my grandfather is retired
    now - 82 and still going strong).  
    
    I was involved in a minor car accident, and got a pretty bad whiplash.
    My doctor of chiropractic helped me immensely, and I healed very quickly.
    
    I don't even have a regular medical doctor, because I go to one so
    infrequently.  I take the responsibility upon myself to learn about
    health care, and all the alternative treatments available to me for
    whatever ailments may come up.  I have found alot of excellent
    treatments and alternatives to "regular" medical care that work BETTER
    and are less dangerous to the patient.
    
    Anyone interested in learning more might want to read the books titled
    "Confessions of a Medical Heretic" and "Raising a Healthy Child In
    Spite of Your Doctor".  They are written by an M.D. who decides to break 
    the unwritten law of protecting other doctors no matter what they do to 
    patients.  He is very knowledgeable, and a little humorous with his 
    approach (he feels very strongly about what he has written in the book).
    
    Renee