T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
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1781.1 | Expert info on soldering | PIPPER::HOHMAN | | Thu Feb 27 1992 12:13 | 6 |
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Contact Leo Lambert at GIAMEM::LAMBERT. Leo is Digital's expert on
soldering, has worked in this area for many years and can probably give
you the best info on low CFC soldering.
Roger
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1781.2 | soldering/CFC clarification | SMOOT::ROTH | Networks of the Rich and Famous | Thu Feb 27 1992 12:42 | 5 |
|
Just to point out what may not be obvious...
Soldering itself does not involve CFC's, but the removal of traditional
solder flux (rosin) residues from circuit boards does.
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1781.3 | Thanks! | ZYDECO::PEACOCK | Shakin' the bush, Boss | Thu Feb 27 1992 13:45 | 7 |
| Thanks folks, I am in touch with the appropriate person now! I realize
that soldering itself involves no CFC's, the solvents which were (are)
used to clean up afterwards, however, are a different story. So thanks
for the information and mail messages!
Tim
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1781.4 | Can we learn more? (Here?) | 16BITS::DELBALSO | I (spade) my (dog face) | Thu Feb 27 1992 14:14 | 12 |
| For those of us not technically into how are products are manufactured,
would it be appropriate to follow-up on this subject a little bit here?
I recently heard on a news report that it was found that plain lemon
juice is as effective a flux remover as freon solvent. Has DEC done any
studies to verify this? Do we attempt to make use of more environmentally
sound materials, such as this, when possible? What type of criteria do
we use to determine the feasibility/applicability of such alternatives
in our processes?
Thanks,
-Jack
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1781.5 | Much more to be learned. | ELMAGO::TTOMBAUGH | Naked in a cave in the Jemez | Thu Feb 27 1992 14:58 | 25 |
| DEC mfg. has been using water soluble soldering flux for some time.
It washes off cleanly in plain water. Lemon juice, being mainly water,
would perform similarly I suppose. The acidic content in lemon juice
would seem a rather poor substance to be placing on the PCB lands
however.
Unfortunately, certain surface mount components require a non-water
soluble flux be used in order to get proper wetting (solder flow)
between the component and the board. These boards then require cleaning
with CFC. This problem is still being worked, without resolution,
as far as I know.
Another possible solution is to use an available flux which has a lower
residue content and doesn't require as much, or any, washing to look
good.
However this process is at present un acceptable to certain Japanese
customers, actually the DEC-Japan predelivery inspection people,
making our boards unacceptable by them unless they have had the full
CFC wash.
So, there is still much political/environmental wrangling going on over
this issue and I've heard of no final solution that's acceptable to
all.
Terry
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1781.6 | Also Contact Bill Bennett DTN 232-2439 | DOBRA::MCGOVERN | | Fri Feb 28 1992 10:35 | 17 |
|
Digital Augusta developed a water-based process for cleaning
solder flux and other residues from electronic components.
I wrote up the characterization and user documentation for
it. I believe I have copies of the documents available,
if you need more data, contact me or folks up at Augusta
(I can't do better than that because I have no idea who
is still up there.)
I'm sure the EHS people will know about this process as we
released it to the world on Earth Day 1990. It works and
is (was then) world-class state-of-the-art.
Michael McGovern
Technical Senior Writer, CUIP
MRO1-3/T2
DTN 297-9884
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1781.7 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Fri Feb 28 1992 11:41 | 3 |
| re .5:
Does this mean that flux is removed only for cosmetic reasons?
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1781.8 | required for quality reasons | MAYES::ZELISKO | | Fri Feb 28 1992 11:56 | 5 |
|
RE: .7
No, over time it can degrade circuit connections and cause failures.
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1781.9 | Cleaning is expensive!
| FIVER::BARTLETT | | Fri Feb 28 1992 13:54 | 39 |
|
I am a member of the Corporate No-Clean Team (team leader: Pete Lison/TME),
and I have some information on this subject.
It is my understanding that the vast majority of our module cleaning operations
use saponified aqueous cleaners to remove residual flux. Residual flux can
limit the operational life of modules by accelerating corrosion mechanisms
which act between adjacent conductors. In addition, probe testing is very
difficult on pads which have this sticky residue. While our cleaners do not
involve the use of ozone-damaging chemicals, they do create problems with
respect to water treatment. Also, the entire cleaning process really does not
add value to the finished product.
I haven't read anything specific about lemon juice, but there is an entire class
of cleaners known as "terpenes". They come from citrus fruits and woods, so
they're organic, plentiful, non-toxic, and have a host of other good attributes.
It's not nearly as simple as dumping them into the aqueous cleaner, though. An
entirely different process known as "semi-aqueous" cleaning is used. There
are two loops in this process: the modules go through a terpene loop where the
residual fluxes are removed from the modules, then they go through an aqueous
loop where the terpenes are washed from the board. This really saves a lot of
the waste water treatment, as terpenes are a lot easier to clean from the water
than residual flux. There are drawbacks, though. It requires much more capital
equipment (fairly significant cost), and I've heard that terpenes have a low
flash point (posing a potential safety hazard).
No-Clean materials (also called Low Residue Fluxes) are a different story.
There has been a lot of work on these materials within the industry in the past
couple of years, and there are some good products that we'll be implementing.
These materials contain a large amount of volatiles which evaporate during the
high temperature reflow operation. They leave a small, hard (non-tacky)
residue. We've done a lot of testing during the past year and identified
several materials which are non-corrosive and solder just as well as our
conventional materials. Implementation has begun, and it's estimated that
successful completion of this project will result in multi-million dollar
cost savings (cleaning is expensive!)
Greg Bartlett
TDA/Materials Science and Engineering
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1781.10 | Expensive and time consuming. | ELMAGO::TTOMBAUGH | Naked in a cave in the Jemez | Fri Feb 28 1992 14:20 | 21 |
| re .9
>>they leave a small hard non-tacky residue<<
This is what causes us problems with the DEC-Japan inspection folks.
They won't accept modules with that residue.
At ABO Mfg. we're still using CFC to clean modules in those cases where
soldering requirements demand non-aqueous flux. I don't know what
the % of total modules shipped this represents, but in our dept. (
field return repair) we would be forced to ship quite a few
flux-encrusted modules if it weren't for CFC cleaning.
And this does not address the situation where a field repair has been
attempted using non-aqueous flux, which is usually not cleaned at all
until we receive the module. We then clean it with CFC, do the required
repair, and clean again appropriately depending on the type of flux
dictated by the components involved.
Terry
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1781.11 | You can learn a lot here | 16BITS::DELBALSO | I (spade) my (dog face) | Fri Feb 28 1992 21:10 | 7 |
| re: .5 through .10
Thanks to all of you for the information. I always like to be able to learn
something about aspects of our business which I have no connection with.
I appreciate the enlightenment.
-Jack, software recluse
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1781.12 | What Hughes Aircraft is doing.. | SUBWAY::ROTHMAN | Dr. Daystrom did NOT design Alpha! | Sat Feb 29 1992 16:10 | 9 |
| The 17 Feb 1992 issue of Aviation Week and Space technology has an
article on pg.45 which states: "Hughes Aircraft Co. has achieved a
manufacturing breakthrough with a new solder flux that could
eliminate.. CFCs.. in electronic manufacturing." It goes on to
discuss a water soluable flux with a citric acid base called HF1189
that Hughes will use instead of rosin in existing wave solder
machines..
-Andy
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1781.13 | xDWacth | CTOAVX::BRAVERMAN | Sounds like assonance to me... | Sun Mar 01 1992 11:53 | 7 |
|
Even if there is an elimination of CFC's and a citric acid base is
used, there is still the residue that must be captured. It must still
be controlled and carefully disposed and documented. Its stuff you
can't just rinse down the drain.
hy
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1781.14 | | MLTVAX::DELBALSO | I (spade) my (dog face) | Mon Mar 02 1992 09:12 | 6 |
| re: .13
So - the flux is also a hazardous material?
-Jack
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1781.15 | Have to change some entrenched ideas!
| FIVER::BARTLETT | | Mon Mar 02 1992 12:21 | 15 |
| Re. 10 (Terry)
Thanks for the information as to what you folks are doing in ABO. Part of the
problem with this project that each module assy plant is doing something
different, and change will have to be slow.
Excellent point with the issue of "customer satisfaction" with respect to
residual flux. Even though there is considerable data to show that certain
materials may be left on the boards with no degradation in life there will be
stubborn people/companies. We've asked other companies how they've handled
this issue, and they've said that they simply compiled all of their
reliability data and showed it to their customers. Maybe we should talk about
doing this with your customer.
Greg B.
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1781.16 | | SMOOT::ROTH | Networks of the Rich and Famous | Mon Mar 02 1992 12:35 | 6 |
| Re: .14
The flux may not be the problem but the resultant wash, due to acidic
presence, may be tainted with tin and lead (of which the solder is made).
Lee
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1781.17 | An info source in the front lines. | ELMAGO::TTOMBAUGH | Naked in a cave in the Jemez | Mon Mar 02 1992 12:39 | 6 |
| re .15
To get the latest straight scoop on CFC/flux/solder issues at ABO
contact Anne Chiasson, process engineer at: ELMAGO::ACHIASSON.
Terry
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1781.19 | Suddenly no-more replies on this? | JGODCL::KWIKKEL | The dance music library 1969-20.. | Mon Mar 09 1992 04:11 | 1 |
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1781.20 | I think you just gave'em the definitive answer, Jan...;-) | JGODCL::APETERS | Time files | Tue Mar 10 1992 08:17 | 1 |
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