Conference 7.286::digital

    
    Just attend the RISC/ULTRIX sales support symposium sometime....
    
    -Ed
    

    Do you have some idea of what the presenter should have said in
    place of what was actually said?

    It's hard to second-guess without details, obviously; the issues
    seem to revolve around

    - Honesty - it's better to say we don't know something than to lie
    and say we do

    - Completeness - it's [sometimes] better to say we don't know
    something than to keep quiet and *hope* it doesn't come up

    - Professionalism - if there's a known problem with respect to a
    product, it's best to give as much information about avoiding or
    coping with the problem as possible, than to make a joke about it

    But suppose the case is basically the way the presenter presented
    it: nobody's come up with a good way of dealing with XYZ in the
    software, and XYZ is something that the audience is aware can
    happen (as you were). Do you think it would be better to have said
    nothing and try to stonewall the issue? How should he have
    responded if he ignored it, and it then came up in the Q&A?

    You may not have liked his style - but did you have a better
    answer? 

    Clearly, no one can know all of the details based on what you've said
    in .0 but this sounds very typical of the sort of Digital arrogance
    that still pervades.   Just read many of the topics in this very
    negative conference where we KNOW how stupid people are who don't like
    electronic mail or, even worse, like ALL-IN-1.

    My suggestion would be that you should have immediately talked with as
    many customers as you could in the room at the end of the presentation
    to gain an understanding of their views.  You would would have wanted
    to be very careful relative to the 'joke' given by the speaker but I
    suggest that talking with the customers about that feature of your
    product would have been enlightening.  You should have then found the
    'clever speaker' and asked him/her/it about what the point of the
    'joke' was and give your concerns.

    I would hope that you did talk with as many customers as you could
    while at the symposium.  It seems all too common that Digital people
    attend DECUS symposia just to talk with other Digital people about all
    sorts of clever things while looking down their arrogant architecturally
    pure noses at the 'dumb propeller head customers'.  The quoted phrase
    is a direct quote from a marketing 'person', by the way.

    Our future is in giving customers solutions that meet their needs and
    not in impressing ourselves with clever architecture.   DECUS symposia
    offer an excellent opportunity to learn customer needs but, all too
    often, DECUS symposia are approached just like Bush, Iacocca, et al.
    are doing in Japan this week.  Many Digital people go there to talk at
    customers and not ever listen and, of course, never learn from a mere
    customer.

    don

    I wasn't there either.
    
    Is it possible that the man was trying to defuse a difficult situation
    by making light of it?  That method can work well.  It has the
    advantage of cutting off a series of questions which may just prolong
    the agony.

    Hmmm.  I was presenting at this past DECUS - hope I'm not the
    culprit...
    
    Anyway, a joke can be a good way to START dealing with a difficult
    situation.  Of course, if said situation is causing real pain to the
    customers, their humor appreciation level may not be up to the level of
    the presenter's wit...  And the joke needs to be done well and
    tastefully, a whole other set of problems in perception.
    
    To be properly professional, while you may start with a joke, it IS a
    good idea to use it to move into a real explanation (or admission). 
    And if you don't have an answer, a straight statement to that effect,
    while bad for the ego, is probably the best course.  It can also be
    turned into an opportunity to collect feedback, as in:  "We'd like to
    talk to people about this, so if anybody would like to catch me after
    the session...".
    
    /Dave

	It takes experience, seasoning, to deal with this sort of thing.

	Re 0.: The next time this happens, instead of fleeing before you
	can be caught by customers, you'll be ready to follow the advice
	in earlier replies to talk to the customers.

	A joke's ok, if it doesn't create the false impression that the
	company doesn't care.  If in fact we do not care about the problem,
	bye bye DEC.  Look what's happening to American car companies.

	Regards, Robert.

    Customers especially now in these times respect and appreciate HONESTY.
    It may hurt in the outset but once MR. CUSTOMER thinks about it, the
    rewards later on will justify. I have ALWAYS been truthful with
    CUSTOMERS and I have been in this business for 24 years once you gained
    rapport and integrity with a Customer it can NEVER be challenged. There
    is nothing wrong in saying- NO it will not work with your application,
    or there may be another solution maybe it is our package or someone
    else's. I can't believe the criticism when ONE tells it like it is. I
    will not LIE to a Customer and sometimes "Doing the right thing" is
    telling the truth.
    
    	IMHO
    	John
    

    
    re: .7 - you are quite correct, especially at DECUS, where many
    companys send folks from their technical staff's to gain insight
    and knowledge beyond the sales crapola.   Face it, there are some
    tough problems, espcially in the network area, where we have a
    leadership position - and sometimes that position is, we don't yet
    know the answer. Leadership often means wandering into uncharted
    water - so many of our customers realize that, and value honest
    opinions from our engineering staff.   It is far better to maintain
    a position of honesty and integrity instead of baiting customers into
    a trap and then bullsh*ting them once their caught!  That is how you
    LOSE customers.
    
    	bob
    

    Two points to make:
    
    	1. Yes, I slipped out of the room, but did find the customers I
    knew later and provided to them some ideas to work with the problems
    that had been raised in the session. But I hate feeling that I had
    to "clean up" after another employee.
    
    	2. The problem involved keeping up with changes to application
    programming syntax in one of our layered products. I feel that there
    are many good things that should have been suggested (such as the use
    of CASE) to alleviate the problem, even though it would not have
    cured it. I don't think "lying" (i.e., oh, no problems here...) was
    the solution, either. I deal with this frequently on customer sites,
    where there is an admitted problem with a product, but someone
    else from DEC has chosen to bad-mouth the product, instead
    of telling the customer what the problem is and how best to fix it.
    Humor in such a delicate situation can be helpful, but I use
    it only when I know the customer. To "joke" to 300 people who
    one didn't know about an issue I consider critical made me angry.
    I felt the presenter was conveying a callousness toward customer
    concerns that DEC can't afford right now. 

  
  Re .9 (Ellen)
  
  >  But I hate feeling that I had to "clean up" after another employee.
  
  You should try working in [post-sales] support ...
  
  From the information presented in this note it sounds like the presenter
  did exactly the right thing : let the audience know that DEC recognised
  the problem and updated them that DEC hadn't got a fix yet whilst using
  humour to keep their knives in their pockets.
  
  Frank

I once gave in slightly to the childish temptation to vent my anger when 
dealing with a customer on a conference call. It was a tough situation and the
guy was really asking too much. I gave him a flip answer to the effect 
that "we have to sleep sometime". At that point he blew his top. What followed
was a steady stream of expletives for about five minutes. My boss, in the room
with me, took the much more tactful approach of saying "yes, ok, I understand"
and managed to soothe things over.

I deeply regretted triggering this outburst. While it had no lasting effects
(I still work for Digital 8^), and the guy and I were able to work together 
just as before), it left me with the opinion that, when in a pinch, absolute
professionalism is required. If the situation has any chance of being 
sensitive, the customer is probably not going to appreciate any humor, 
especially the smart-ass type. They want you to help them with their problems,
not be a cavalier snot. Save the humor for when things are going well
and you can all be happy buddies.

Steve

    
    Re: .11
    
    > I once gave in slightly to the childish temptation to vent my
    > anger when dealing with a customer on a conference call. It was a
    > tough situation and the guy was really asking too much.  I gave
    > him a flip answer to the effect that "we have to sleep sometime".
    > At that point he blew his top. 
    
    I agree with you 100%.  It doesn't pay to make what we think might
    be a humorous remark to "lighten up" a tense situation.  Clearly the
    customer didn't think he was "asking too much".  We have GOT, I mean
    GOT, to finally get it through our heads that in the 90s with the
    competitive situation the way it is, that the old maxim "the customer
    is always right" is the one and only way to stay alive.
    
    We can't afford to make light of what to our customers might be a very
    painful issue.
    
    Steve
    

  
  Re .12 (Steve)
  
  > We have GOT, I mean  
  > GOT, to finally get it through our heads that in the 90s with the     
  > competitive situation the way it is, that the old maxim "the customer 
  > is always right" is the one and only way to stay alive.               
  >                                                                      
  > We can't afford to make light of what to our customers might be a very
  > painful issue.                                                        
  
  How about GETTING, I mean GETTING, into our heads the old maxim that if
  you make fewer mistakes, you make fewer apologies ?  By the time that the
  customer is in the state where a humourous remark has the potential to
  blow up it is FAR TOO LATE. 
  
  If the original lack of product quality had been detected/fixed/avoided
  *before* taking large amounts of money off said customer for a product that
  should have delivered, then there would be no need for the thought police
  to worry about an informal remark.  If the customer has suffered from
  DEC's gouging, lying and lack of committment then he'll be [justifiably]
  quick to bite your head off.  If, on the other hand, he has benefited
  from timely delivery of quality products that match his expectations then
  he will recognise that the human side of customer handling is every bit
  as important as the sterile, unfeeling and process-bound mechanism that
  "should" always apply.  From the replies in this note, the response has
  mainly been to show how to handle the first case as the default. What's
  wrong with this picture ?
  
  No, we can't afford to make light of a customer situation but neither can
  we adopt a sensitive fa�ade without correcting the root of the problem,
  the bug(s) or whatever failing which provoked the customer in the first
  place. 
  
  Frank

    
    Re: .13
    
  >How about GETTING, I mean GETTING, into our heads the old maxim that if
  >you make fewer mistakes, you make fewer apologies ?  By the time that the
  >customer is in the state where a humourous remark has the potential to
  >blow up it is FAR TOO LATE. 
    
    Whoa.  Slow down a little.  You are right but that is another
    discussion.  We are discussing how to interact with customers here,
    not how to prevent defects.  I agree that the thing the customer is
    upset about should be prevented not fixed, but what we surely don't
    want is to upset the customer by making humorous, cavalier, remarks
    about an issue the customer is sensitive to.  That, in itself, is
    a defect leaving us with TWO instead of one.
      
    Now if you want to discuss preventing defects, join us in the
    SIX_SIGMA notes file.
    
    Steve_who_is_a_certified_Six_Sigma_instructor
    

In many situations we are put in the position of being the implementors of 
someone else's commitments. So by the time we get into the act, the customer
may already be upset. This tends to make us view the customer as being
unreasonable, while in the context of the expectations someone else has
set for him, he might be perfectly reasonable. Given the complex web of 
communications that goes on between the different parties, who are all coming
from different bases of experience (implying different perspectives and
interpretations), this type of problem seems insurmountable. The best you
can hope for is that it does not occur too often. Communication is the key,
but we don't always have the luxury of having all the right participants with
the right preparation available at the right time.

...and then there are the customers who think that if they blow up,
act nasty, and generally threaten to call Ken and raise h%ll, they
may get more out of us than if they were reasonable.  
There's a real tightrope, and that is where the front-line folks
really earn their bucks!  You have to be able to ferret out what the real
issues are and what the right thing to do is on the spot.  You can't always do
what the customer is asking for, or some of them will walk on you and you 
don't earn any money.  You also can't blow them off, or they go elsewhere
and you earn no money.

What is always called for is professionalism.  That doesn't mean being cold.
That means being pleasant and rational when someone is yelling in your face.
If - and I would say only if - you have built up a personal relationship
with someone, then humor may be appropriate.  You will know by then what will
and won't be regarded as "funny".  

    This probably doesn't belong here, but I hate starting new notes.  The
    MODperson has my permission to move this if they find a better home.

    I stopped in at NETWORLD 92 today, which is a major networking,
    telecommunication and computing trade show being held at the Hynes
    auditorium.  It just happened that four of the vendors/products I am
    currently working with were there.  Digital was also there, as well as
    IBM, HP, Novel, etc, etc, etc.

    To keep this brief, I stopped into the Digital display just to see what
    was going on.  First of all, we had quite a piece of real estate (Trump
    would have been proud), plenty of equipment, and plenty of staffers. 

    Unfortunately, what I encountered was a number of "bored" looking
    people, mostly talking with each other, and generally not paying much
    attention to passers-by.  I was actually in the booth, about six or
    eight inches from two DEC people, looking at a display and was able to
    walk away without either of them stopping their conversation long
    enough to say 'hello'.  I came back a few minutes later and one of them
    finally asked me if I had any questions (he didn't notice my badge
    indicating I was from DEC).  I said I wasn't quite sure what they were
    selling and asked what the displays were.  He didn't have an answer,
    fumbled, and then asked if I had any specific area of interest.  When I
    told him I was from DEC, and just wanted to see what we were marketing,
    he said "just pathworks and pc's", then he walked away.  This wasn't
    just low key.  This could only be described as comatose.

    Now this was lunch time, but I had just come from IBM's booth, as well
    as a number of companies that probably had fewer total employees than the
    contingent in the DEC booth.  At each of these booths I was greeted
    aggressively, and was made to feel welcome. In some cases, I was greeted
    in the aisle just for making eye contact.

    Maybe the DEC engineers could have described in bit rendering detail
    the intricacies of ISA, or the senior level managers could break 80 at
    pebble beach, but I didn't see a really good reason for a customer to
    try hard enough to find out.

    Maybe I am just being too hard on us, and maybe I stopped by at a bad
    time.  Maybe.  The show will be open until Thursday at 4:00.  Maybe
    someone else should stop by and see.

    Sorry, I don't mean to hurt anyone.  I'm sure it's not an easy job.

    Yes, I was there also.  I did see the number of DEC personell standing
    around mumbling to themselves.  There did not seem to be a big turnout
    in the DEC booth compared to some others.  But did anyone see that 
    presentation that we gave with that guy dressed up as Columbus or 
    whoever????  I did not stay to see it, but did anyone see the whole
    thing?  Was it effective?  I was dissapointed at some of the answers 
    that I got from some of our people.  Their enthusiasm was nill and very
    few of them were aggressive.  I aggree with .-1 in that maybe my 
    expectations are too high, but compared to some of the other vendors
    we did not look so hot.
    
    
      

    Too high expectations? Don't think so. I've done booth duty at a DEC
    World, and the impression that is gotten from the booth staff IS
    critical. Would you want to buy something from a company whose own
    staff has a "yawn" attitude about the products?
    
    Eric

    If the authors of .17 & .18 would cross-post their notes in the
    GERBIL::US_SALES_SERVICE conference, I'm sure this issue will get the
    corporate kind of attention it deserves.
    
    

    The note touches something that has been irritating me for a while,
    "an honest Digital person". 

    And 0. describes a typical situation, somebody honestly describes
    a problem for customers and it stops there.

    "An honest Digital" person thinks it is enough to be honest, and
    actually expects respect for that .

    Another variation is an honest person that thinks it is enough to
    have good reason for a failure. Presenting these good reasons is 
    as good as actually accomplishing what was called for in the first
    place. ( our internal functions often work this way)

    In 0., it is not acceptable to describe something that looks as a
    serious problem without any further action plan.
    Presenter knew about the problem in advance and should have learned
    about any attempt to solve the problem or start such process.
    Or it was not a serious problem and then he should have explained why.

    						wlodek

    re .20
    
    You have my permission........

Not to make a mountain out of a mole hill, but I often hear customers
complain to me "Its like trying to pull teeth to get Digital to 
sell me some thing?".

Just another field persons view!

- Mike