Conference 7.286::digital

    The appropriate DEC jargon is not "retaliation", it's "payback".

    Just out of curiosity, I wonder how "payback" could be proved in any
    case?  Gimme' a break, it's a nice idea but how could it really carry
    any weight? As I said, just wonderin'

Re: .0


> * Finally, each major geography within the U.S. has identified senior level


Does this new ODP apply only to the US or has the rest of the DEC World been
remembered this time ?


I really do wish that DEC could behave in it's attitude towards it's employees
as if it was *ONE* company and not DEC US and some other "small-fry" out 
there who don't really count...because more and more, this is the feeling I get
about DEC and I'm positive I'm not alone in this.

><<< Note 1688.3 by CURRNT::ALFORD "An elephant is a mouse with an operating system" >>>
>                       -< International in name only ? >-

> really do wish that DEC could behave in it's attitude towards it's employees
>as if it was *ONE* company and not DEC US and some other "small-fry" out 
>there who don't really count...because more and more, this is the feeling I get
>about DEC and I'm positive I'm not alone in this.

You're right there. This conference is supposedly an international forum,
but it virtually closed down last week when the US had a holiday. Maybe
all the rest of the world has been put off reading this conference because
it's too US specific. Maybe the same could be said about listening to
management messages from Maynard.

Why is it necessary for a supposed worldwide company to have such a 
concentration of employees in New England anyway?

Craig

    The old/new ODP left out a letter ie;
    	1. DEC's version ODP "Open Door Policy"
    	2. Real World OTDP "Open To Dubious Persecution"
    IMHO
    John

    re .4
    
    Because the company was founded some 30+ years ago in Maynard 
    MASSACHUSETTS. If it had been established in Geneva would anyone
    be wondering why we had so many employees in Switzerland ? I don't
    think so. (Flame off)

Re:<<< Note 1688.0 by RIPPLE::FARLEE_KE "Insufficient Virtual...um...er..." >>>

>* Finally, each major geography within the U.S. has identified senior level
>managers to serve as Open Door Resources.  These individuals can provide
>independant review.  The list of the New Open Door Managers is attached."
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Of course, they forgot to attach the list!  The list itself can be found in 
LIVE WIRE with a note which says they forgot to attach it...  :-)

-  David

    
>>> You're right there. This conference is supposedly an international forum,
>>> but it virtually closed down last week when the US had a holiday. Maybe
>>> all the rest of the world has been put off reading this conference because
>>> it's too US specific. 
    
    Or maybe it's because this conference is so full of gloom 'n doom 'n
    nonsense. There was a time when this conference was the Oracle of DEC
    information. Nowadays it is rare to find a worthwhile contribution (my
    replies excepted of course :-;) [hope that's the smile symbol].
    
    I reckon most of us have two choices, we can either work for ourselves
    or work for somebody else. In Digital we choose to work for somebody
    else. I reckon Digital is one of the best "somebody elses" you could
    work for. Most of the problems we complain about are industry wide as
    many of my friends who work for other computer companies will testify.
    
    Remember when you point a finger at middle-management you have three
    fingers pointing back at yourself. A manager is only as good as his/her
    team and should take some credit for developing that team and creating
    an environment where ICs can do excellent work.
    
    Digital folks have traditionally been winners not whingers. Outside of
    this (and some other) conferences, I still see winners everywhere. If
    you are a whinger you might want to read "A better way to live" by Og
    Mandino. (This isn't a plug for anything - just a damn good small book).
    
    Ian
    

    What is a "whinger"?  Or does he mean "whiner"?

    I think this new policy is just another sign that the recovery is
    starting!!  I was one of the nay-sayers...but now, by God, I think
    we're going to pull it off!!

re: .10,

>    I think this new policy is just another sign that the recovery is
>    starting!!  I was one of the nay-sayers...but now, by God, I think
>    we're going to pull it off!!

    	What, no more "death spirals"???	;^)

				   -davo

    Yup, you got it!!!  Every day I become just a bit more impressed with
    the battle management has fought for the past 12-14 months to get
    us on a new path to success.
    
    I'm particularly impressed that they were able to pull it off with
    ---holes like me yapping at their heels all the while.

    OK, with the new open door policy there is a chance that "upper
    Management" will actually listen and then actually act upon and
    implement some of the great ideas that individual contributors
    have.  The best part of the new ODP is that now our local Managers
    cannot snuff out a great idea because it does not fit into their
    personal power plan.
    

RE: .9

According to my British friends, a "whinger" is much like a "whiner", only more
so.

--PSW

    Hmmm.  My OED says it is a dagger or sword.  Your British friends
    seem to know a more avant-garde definition.

    Whinger (pronounced win-ger with a soft "g") is Australian slang
    for a whiner as in "wingen pom".
    Max

Ahhh Gi'day...�

    We aren't  based  in  Switzerland, and we DO wonder why we have so many
    employees there.

    Reminds of  a  story of a dearly departed VP (Bruno D'Avanzo).  He came
    to  DECpark  in  Munich  to  give a talk (about 2 years ago) on getting
    people  out of overhead positions, out of the office, and closer to the
    customer.   One  of  the  (inevitable) questions said "Well, what about
    Geneva, why are we opening a new facility there?".

    His answer  was along the lines of "Well, people have moved there, made
    their lives there, have their careers there ..." We smiled.

	From the Little Oxford Dictionary

	whine   long-drawn cpmlianing cry (as) of dog or child; querulous
	        tone; feeble complaint

	whinge  complain peevishly


	Heather

Call Security!  Somebody's broken into COOKIE::LENNARD's account!

    NO breakin!!! I've just seen the light, HALLELUJAH!!!  I'm forming
    a local chapter of Former DEC-Whiners Anonymus (:^).........

He's been brainwashed by some cult!  Or maybe the pod people have taken over!

    Oh, NO!  They've killed my hero!  The pod people have taken
    Dick Lennard, one of the last surviving voices of sanity in
    the company, my choice for new CEO, and all-around articulate
    and fearless resident curmudgeon!  They have his brain - can
    the rest of us feel safe?!...
    
    And even worse, now I'm going to have to come in here and write
    all of the stuff he used to say better than I ever could!  Argh...
    
    A fine and courageous man, he was... this is truly a sad day
    for Digital...
    
    Chris

    RE: .22
    
    Mega dittos
    
    

    ...your choice for new CEO......hmmmmmmmmm.  Well, on second thought,
    maybe they aren't doing THAT good a job.

    	Now now, Dick has been courageous enough to take the first step
    and admit that he has a whining [whinging?] problem, so enough with
    the whining enablers out there.

    	Ok, where were we Dick, let's see...whinging is an addictive
    personality disorder which not only effects the whinger, but also
    their friends and families.  EAP has sponsored this 12-step program
    to help habitual whingers to kick the habit...

    				    -davo
     				 (ex-whinger)

    Wire his teeth shut.
    
    Jamie.

    I felt it was a ray of sunshine, a positive in a negative environment.
    I have something I can hold in my hot little hand to back up my right
    to go the 'open door' route.  And better still, a name of a person who
    has been identified to handle open door issues, rather that some
    person/manager who may or may not be capable of handling something delicate.
    
    It's a start!
    

Yes, a "ray of sunshine"... allow me to tiptoe through the tulips back
in time to an incident that should enlighten all of you as to what *really*
happens when you use "Open Door" in Digital.


I was an innocent little guy, doing a pretty good job and keeping my nose
clean, not offending anyone, not "politically active".  One day I was
walking down the hall with two external vendors, who were all dressed up
and wearing obvious "Visitor" badges.  Suddenly, from out of a doorway
jumped one of the other managers in my organization (not my own manager). 
He went into a tirade, cursing and swearing at me, berating me for
something which he knew that someone else in my group had done along with
my supervisor, on a project which he knew I had absolutely nothing to do
with.  I was apparently a convenient target, whom he felt he could abuse
to get his message across to the culprit and our supervisor, without
incurring any real risk on his part.  He didn't dare do this directly to
the intended recipients of his "message".

At the end of this outburst, he stepped back, and as if realizing he'd
done something wrong, he said "But I'm not mad at you!", and disappeared.
Yeah, right.  My guests were mortified, as was I, and we went off to our
meeting together, where I was so humiliated, I could barely speak.

Using the Open Door Policy, I went to my supervisor and informed him of
the manager's abusive treatment; then, together we went to the other
guy's manager (who was in our chain as well), who said he'd deal with
it.  The abusive manager got a verbal slap on the wrist, and said that
it wouldn't happen again.  And we all lived happily ever after.

Well, not quite.  After that, strange things began happening.  A minor
re-org brought in a new manager above my supervisor, and the new manager
essentially formed an alliance with the manager who'd been abusive.  All
of the "good projects" in the group began going to others.  Management
was treating me differently.  The new manager brought in a new supervisor,
and it didn't take long for the blacklisting to filter down and for the
retribution to begin anew.

Even though I'd just been an apolitical "poor slob" just doing a good job
and minding my own business, now all of a sudden management was referring
to me as a "malcontent", having an "attitude problem", with "waves and
waves of hostility emanating" from me, affecting the entire group. 
Meanwhile, all I wanted was to be left alone!

This sort of thing kept up for months, until the last straw came when
the new supervisor attempted to reprimand me for doing something which
I "had no authority to do", even though our project plan clearly specified
that I indeed should have done it.

At that point, I decided to go to the new manager (who wasn't so new
by this time), and requested a discussion with him about the matter,
in accordance with the Open Door Policy.  He refused, saying that I had to
work it out with the supervisor.  I again told him that I was attempting to
use the Open Door Policy here, and he replied "Well, this isn't exactly Open
Door Policy, but it's how I work things in my group."

After hitting that brick wall, I went back and tried reasoning with the
supervisor again, to no avail.  Then I returned to the manager and asked
for the meeting, saying that I'd at least tried it his way.  He reluctantly
agreed, but added that even though he knew none of the particulars of this
matter, he would "almost always side with the supervisor, because he's the
supervisor and he works for me", and so on.

The meeting was a kangaroo court, and I was "convicted".  Knowing that
the manager above this one (and so on, and so on) was pretty much of
the same inclination, I could see that it was useless to pursue this
any further.  I could also see that it was pointless to remain in this
group any longer, so I left and went to another group doing the same kind
of work.  And we all lived happily ever after.

Well, not quite.  My "reputation" followed me into my new group.  At first
I was unaware of this, but was later informed by a third party, and then
confirmed by a fourth party.  This was followed by a performance review
from the old group that was straight out of fantasy land (and I had
witnesses that I offered to bring on to refute it).  The new supervisor
claimed to "disregard" this performance review input from the old group.

Yeah, right.  Strange things were happening again.  Statements that I'd
made regarding matters such as projects that I wanted to work on, and
career goals began to be conveniently forgotten, twisted, or rearranged
in time sequence.  Good projects went to others, even when I'd specifically
requested them and it had been earlier agreed upon ("Ohhh, I thought you said
that you *didn't* want to work on that...").  Career and professional goals
evaporated.  Then, when I expressed concern about the assignments, lack of
promotional opportunities, and general environment, again I became the
"discontented" one, the guy with a "bad attitude".  Management prefers
silent victims who don't cry out when struck.  So things got worse again.

I'd been down this road before.  It was hopeless.  You can't erase your
name once it's been put on their blacklist.  So, in desperation and
frustration, I left this group, and went into a completely different kind
of work.  The above events had encompassed roughly four years of time. 
Perhaps there was a way to escape this unearned check mark next to my
name, a hiding place...

But my career in my chosen field had been ruined.  Before this, I wouldn't
have believed that it was possible to destroy a person's spirit, to kill
the fire, to make a person give up trying even when receiving another fair
chance. It's taken years for this to even begin to heal.  And things come
up once in a while to re-open the old wounds.  Like the new-and-improved
ODP.

THIS is the damned "Open Door Policy" in action, in the REAL world. Here
is Digital, "submitted for your approval".  Call me a whiner (or even a
"whinger"!), tell me how I handled this all wrong, say that you're only
hearing one side of the story, and break out the DEC pom-poms, but I know
that my situation is by no means an isolated one.  Do you REALLY believe
that there will be "no retribution" for you?

For all of you who believe things are "getting better", consider this:
the management responsible for my experience is STILL THERE, and have the
responsibility for effectively and fairly implementing this NEW "Open
Door Policy".

I'm laughing.  It's easy to laugh, now.  But remember, use ODP at
your own peril.  Perhaps my story will warn others away from this
ODP fairy tale that attempts to lull you into believing in a Corporate
Benevolence that evaporates when exposed to the light of day.

Chris

I've never used DEC's ODP, because I've seen ODPs at too many other companies
that work as follows:

They hold the Door Open for you, you walk out.  That's the Policy.

I've had little reason to expect otherwise from DEC, and .28 pretty much
summarizes my expectations on the matter.

While I've never used the ODP, I can well appreciate .28's feelings of having
your spirit broken and your career ruined.  You're right:  It takes a long time
and a lot of fair second and third chances to put it all back together.

Personally, I can't wait...

I too, learned very early in my career that when a company's management
encourages you to 'vent your spleen', they really don't want to hear it.
I'm reminded of a comic strip "The king of Id", one day the strip had this
scenario:

. first frame -  King's attendant roaming thru the kingdom proclaiming
   "Tell it to the King, vent your spleen!"

. second frame - Some poor peasant in front of the King, telling the
                 King about something the peasant didn't like.

. third frame  - The King pointing at the peasant screams "Vent his spleen".


Color me cynical, I am!


- George

    Jack is apparently saying and doing the right things regarding ODP.
    If he is truly committed, and I have every reason to believe that he is
    given the feedback from Paul Kinzelman and others who I've spoken with
    and who have spoken directly with Jack, then it means that there is at
    least one person high up in the ODP chain that is will enforce this new
    policy.  Because it has not worked as it is now supposed to work in the
    past does not mean that it will not work.  And, assuming that it does not 
    work like it's supposed to, it sounds to me like the mechanism is in place 
    to bring such instances all the way to the top.  Let's empower Jack with 
    the opportunity to make it work.  If it's not working, let's use ODP to 
    fix the problem.  And, if that doesn't work, then let's gripe about it
    not working.
    
    Steve

    So tell us, exactly how does one prove retribution?
    
    And even if you win, in the end you'll still lose.
    
    
    Chris

    	The way I see it enhancing the policy is the same as admitting
    it had flaws. With a company as large and wide spred as digital
    developing a policy to cover every scenario is impossible.
    
    only time will tell.
    
    you are pigmallion to yourself and the pepole around you.

    I suppose that proving retaliation is similar to proving harassment.  
    If I'm ever harassed (which has never happened) I'll kick my way to the
    top if I have to.  Similarly, if I ever have to use ODP to resolve
    disputes, I WILL go up as high as I need to to get things resolved.
    You're reading this from a guy that has sat across the desk from John
    Simms over an issue of concern.  Just make sure, very sure, that you
    are in the right.
    
    Steve

    And here is another person who is willing to prove that right makes
    might.  I have been to KO three times, and have achieved the result I
    thought was right 2 out of the 3 times.  There have been no
    repercussions.

    And if anybody wants to go read VMSZOO::FLYING, topic 157, you can get
    all the gory details of my current battle in progress with a non-DEC
    organization.
    
    One of the things to learn is when NOT to make a stand.  You do have
    to learn when to retreat or never engage.

    I agree that Jack is trying to do the right thing. The problem is that
    there are a lot of folks in between who are not.
    
    The only thing that will ever fix this is for the top exec's to go back
    to management by walking around.
    
    It has been a long time since I looked up from my desk and saw Ken or
    Jack standing there. 
    
    I know for a fact that they listen, but they don't get around much
    anymore...
    
    

    This is imho DEFINITELY a strategy for success.  All organizations with
    good morale with which I have ever been associated had management that
    lived this precept.  All sickly organizations in my experience shared,
    among other doleful attributes, a Management that was isolated and
    above normal contact with footsoldiers.  It doesn't have to be Ken or
    Jack, it just has to be a tradition that THEY maintain with THEIR
    reports, and so on down the line, part of a culture.  Let's have more
    of this, not less.  Time spent doing this pays off in more than morale;
    it pays off in serendipity, too...
    
    Your mileage may vary, but mine comes up this way every time. 

re: .36,

>    It has been a long time since I looked up from my desk and saw Ken or
>    Jack standing there. 

    	I've been with DEC almost 8 years now, and during that time I
    have worked in the following four corporate facilities: OGO, MRO1,
    PKO3, and now LKG2.  Never once, during this entire 8 year period
    of employment have I ever looked up to see Ken or Jack standing there.
    In fact, I have yet to ever even meet either of these two gentlemen.
    The closest I came to even seeing either of them in person was once
    in 1988 at a state of the company address up in Merrimack NH, when
    I saw Ken Olsen's speech from my TPS demo booth at the far end of
    the cafeteria.

    	In contrast to this situation, I have listened to, met with,
    and/or conversed with the company presidents of both Data General
    and Stratus more often than I have ever been able to do with my
    company president.  I was especially struck by how accessible
    "Captain Eddie" (Edson de Castro - formerly president of Data General)
    was to his employees and their families as I had an uncanny nack
    of running into him in the hallways and company events ("Captain
    Eddie" once asked me my opinions on his new "DG One" personal laptop
    computer during it's Worcester debut at the company meeting, and I
    also talked with him briefly in the hallways of the DG corporate
    headquarters - once at a DG open house, and another time during a
    normal work day when I was there to meet my wife for lunch at one
    of the three cafeterias they have there).  I have since come to
    assume that this is something that only happens at smaller companies.

    	I suppose it is probably a little unrealistic to expect Ken
    or Jack to personally meet with every employee (at least formally),
    but it would be an enormous morale booster to be able to say "Oh,
    I ran into Ken/Jack/etc. the other day in the hallway and talked
    with them briefly about the work I am doing..."  Ironically, in
    this day and age of computer conferencing such as this, a manager
    wouldn't even need to actually "walk around", instead, they might
    simply enter an occasional note in a notesfile now and then to let
    people know that they are listening and care enough to contribute
    to the various discussions underway.

    				   -davo

I've met Ken twice.  Once I opened the conversation and once he did.  I was not
carrying any burning issues around with me, but we had a pleasant chat each
time.  Once was in the men's room at TWO (I can confirm that Ken puts his
pants on one leg at a time) and we talked about steam trains.  The other time
was a few months back at ZKO.  I was wearing a pink rock'n'roll t-shirt.  He
asked me who Doug and the Slugs were.  I told him.  He said they'd used the
name Doug the Slug for one of the vice presidents.  

The only point to mentioning these minor encounters is to say that neither 
time was he looking over my shoulder at the door or sending out signals 
that I shouldn't be in his lofty presence or anything of the kind.  He paid
attention and responded intelligently.  He listened much better than the 
windbag who taught a one-day how-to-listen course here at ZK last year.

Damn few big shots are going to flag down someone in a pink Doug and the Slugs 
t-shirt to ask them about it.  

>Damn few big shots are going to flag down someone in a pink Doug and the Slugs 
>t-shirt to ask them about it.  

Damn few big shots are going to ever *see* someone in a pink Doug and the Slugs 
t-shirt.

    Just last year I participated in the desktop announcement in NYC.  I
    was on stage acting as a "Carol Merrell" demo dolly because I was the
    only one on the East Coast that knew anything about the obscure
    application they were showing.
    
    Ken walked up to me and very pleasantly asked me what I was showing, 
    and just as I opened my mouth a big PR man grabbed my arm and literally 
    pulled me away from my computer so that they could get a shot of Ken in 
    front of the PC.  RUDE!  I have never been so disgusted in my life.  
    I guess the PR dink couln't wait 10 seconds for me to finish my 
    sentance, he must have had time sensitive film that would self 
    distruct if not used immediately!
    
    I wonder how many other times Ken and others have not been given the
    opportunity to talk with us worker bees....  

Ahhh Gi'day...�

    Ahhh, The  Handlers! They precede him to make sure what he's to hear is
    properly  prepared,  they  clean  up after him ("What the Pres MEANT to
    say"),  and  guide  him  in  the  right directions, let him see what is
    prepared  etc  etc.   Trouble  seems to be that Ken KNOWS what they are
    trying  to  do.   You  should  see them scatter in panic when Ken "gets
    loose".

re: .39,

> Once was in the men's room at TWO (I can confirm that Ken puts his
> pants on one leg at a time) and we talked about steam trains.

    	Ah yes, the advantages of being male in a world of male-dominated 
    CEOs.  When I used to work at OGO, I would frequently happen to be
    changing into my jogging clothes in the men's locker room at the same
    time as Jack Shields (among others).  Jack used to go running fairly
    regularly (usually by himself) along the obscure little New England
    roadways behind OGO where most all the OGO runners used to run.

    	There is definitely something very democratic about corporate
    locker rooms (at least for those of the same sex).

    				  -davo

   Maybe this is a gender-based statement, am I thick or what?
    
     "Ken puts his pants on one leg at a time"
    
    I have no idea what you meant by that, and was almost afraid to ask....
    but this is notes.... why not?
    
    huh?

>     "Ken puts his pants on one leg at a time"

This expression is used to emphasize that the subject is really human in
spite of a larger-than-life public image.  Usually intended to develop
courage in the listener.

Dick

    Besides, I DON'T put my pants on one leg at a time.  I sit on the bed
    or on a chair and jump into them with both legs ...
    
    Steve  ;^)

Note for British readers: US "pants" .eq. UK "trousers".

�                   -< and my wife does it the same way ... >-

	You must wear _very_ large trousers....			--Mike

    Dare I ask what 'pants' are in the UK?

    The garment which one wears under ones trousers.