Conference 7.286::digital

    	I'd venture to guess your previous experience was with one or more
    small companies. Corporate politics at a large company like Digital is
    a funny thing (funny in a sick, perverted sense). What you described
    happens to a certain extent at every level in many different functions.
    I've seen it engineering. I've seen multiple groups competing to build
    very similar products with back-stabbing, bad mouthing, hiding
    information, starting rumors about the other groups and their products,
    etc. You see people rise to powerful positions because of seniority who
    have mastered the art of hiding information and controlling people
    behind closed doors, justifying their existence and gaining more power
    at the expense of other people. However, none if this is uncommon in
    large companies, and Digital is no exception...although 10 years ago it
    wasn't like this.

    
    Right you are!  DEC is the largest company I've ever worked for.  I guess
    I have to live with large company politics, but do I have to succumb to it
    in order to advance my career?  Is there any way to inject a little ethics
    into the situation?  
    
    -Ed
    

    My favorite was one of the corporate marketing types ("here to help")
    who came out to our field office.  At one point in the presentation, he
    asked the salesreps and sales support folks to excuse themselves
    because he had to discuss future products with the customer....and
    sales wasn't cleared for this non-disclosure material...
    
    We excused ourselves from the customer, took this guy out in the hall,
    and re-shaped his thinking process.
    
    Gil (Who has worked in the field *AND* the puzzle palace)
    

    re: .2    
    
    Ed,
    
    � [...D]o I have to succumb to [large company politics] in order to
    � advance my career?  Is there any way to inject a little ethics into the
    � situation?
    
    I took this 3-day management course once. It prooposed that you could
    do one of four things:
    
    1) Leave it
    2) Stay and hate it
    3) Try to change it
    4) Learn to love it
    
    1) "it" ain't necessarily Digital. In The U.S. Field, though, the
    situation that you describe is pervasive. It seems to be entrenched as
    culture. There are exceptions, of course, usually the result of one
    Level 2-3 manager who has a vision. When that person goes (and they
    always do, usually in 1-2 years), a startling devolution to corporate
    norms occurs immediately. 9 out of 10 places you'd end up are esentially
    the same anyway.
        
    2) You (and many others, including, frequently, me) already know how to
    do this. Clearly not satisfactory.
    
    3) Bad idea. I don't believe that what exists is KO's or Jack Smith's or
    anybody else's idea of how it ought to be. On the contrary, they've
    tried to fix it, and probably they're still trying. But if you threaten
    the petty tyrants, they'll do their level best to make you wish you'd
    never been born. 
    
    4) This is the "beat them at their own game" strategy. Decide what you
    want to wring out of the system, and make it work for you. Suffer fools
    gladly. Allow them feed at the trough of successes that you create in
    spite of them (they will anyway). And so on. Maybe you'll become the
    visionary mentioned in 2). To every customer you meet, you *are*
    Digital - do the right thing for them. And, hey, if you get fired in
    the process, big deal - it's Digital's loss, not yours. A Unix weenie
    can get paid twice what Digital pays 'em about 15 minutes after their
    butts hit the sidewalk. And "Digital" looks good on your resume. 
    
    So don't worry. The turmoil ain't over in the U.S. Field yet, by a long
    shot. The non-nutritive filler is scared to death and is acting like
    it. They might all be gone in three months. Or they might be all that's
    left. Who knows? Who really cares? Do as many right things as you can,
    get what you can for yourself and don't do anything you'll be sorry for
    in five years. Work to live, not the other way around.
    
    - Larry.

 ��   Let me get what I disagree with out of the way.  You show a prejudice
    against me in suits.  Suits, or proper business attire is what's
    expected of the people who sell computers to them.  Perhaps there are
    some places so informal that they explicitly want their sales people to
    wear jeans, but they are few.

    Two years, eh?  you haven't learned the jargon: You've encountered
    information gatekeepers.

    The PID process was supposed to fix the process of making sure that a
    consistent message was delivered and that the field was involved.  That
    is not so cleverly evaded by claiming that there are strategies,
    overheads, and a script that are "in the process" of becoming a PID.

    There are things that have been "in the process" for two years.  The
    most common reasons aren't the ones you cited (love of airports and
    regional cuisine), but the desire to limit internal discussion and
    conflict over what are the plans and what are the priorities.

    The sincere reason for customer contact can't be overlooked either,
    they want to hear what customers want without the filter of the folks
    in the field, and they want to hear details that will support their own
    worldview and arguments back in headquarters: "Well, Joe Corporate over
    at Acme Manufacturing Inc. said that that UNIX is more of a factor than
    their VMS investment..."  You get the picture.

    Tactics I have used: Insist that you get the overheads and text in
    advance to review what will be discussed.  If they are "unavailable",
    then your customer can become "unavailable".  You are also protecting
    your customer from an unprepared presenter by the way.  Make sure the
    presenter knows what account strategy is.

    A lot of PIDs and trans-PIDs are delivered to customers who don't
    understand the current product set.  How many RDB follow-on
    presentations have been delivered to people who don't have a clue
    what's in RDB right now.  (ID before PID)

    Establish the ground rules for follow-up.  Will the person mention
    dates, suggest a course of action that binds you or Digital?  Will the
    person ask that he or she be contacted directly cutting you out of the
    loop?

    After the presentation document (a) all dates mentioned orally, (b)
    all action items and who suggested them.  Thank people who do a good
    job.

    And finally, here's a phrase that I'll be updating in a few weeks: 
    "OK, we have nothing to tell that about what we have available in 1991
    or 1992, so let's talk about what we may have in 1993."  I try to
    influence Sales Teams not to waste everyone's time if the buying
    horizon of the customer is within a few months, and the anticipated
    solution from Digital is years away.

   

PIDs.

Been selling for MotherDEC for 15 years.  Use PIDs only under  the  most
extenuating of circumstances ...  used 'em maybe 4 times in 15 years.

When I *do* use 'em ..  if *I'm* not "cleared for the  information"  you
can damned well bet that my customer is NOT going to hear it.

My advice is to use PIDs  only  when  *absolutely*  necessary.   There's
something  about  selling  the  future  that  really  bothers me, not to
mention the fact that if you don't use 'em carefully you can get BURNED,
and, BAD.

I remember one time when I could have used a disclosure and won a  sale.
A strategic decision was made to NOT use a disclosure - I lost the sale.
Best sale I ever lost.  I was against Prime and they won.

Turns out that the system performance was so bad ...   their  reputation
went  to  hell  in  a  hand  basket.  I never had to fight Prime in that
territory again - not once.  Had I won the sale I would  have  continued
to  use  resources  to fight Prime at every turn - they were damned near
giving away hardware.  After they "won" that  sale  they  couldn't  GIVE
their  hardware  away  (and  believe  me,  they tried - literally - they
offered some systems FREE to some schools).

It's  called  "strategic"  selling.   From  a  military  perspective   a
strategic  strike is one that denies the enemy the ability to wage war -
same in selling - a strategic sale (or non-sale) is one that  will  deny
your  competition the ability to sell into your account or territory.  I
suckered 'em, they took the bait, they won the battle and lost the  war.
They didn't know the meaning of "strategic" and I knew that they didn't.
It was purely a "tactical" sale to them.  Wrong.

I sure wish more DECsales people knew the meaning, the real meaning,  of
strategic selling.

I've often had delusions of trying to put together a Special Weapons and
Tactics selling team - a small select team of "fighters", hand picked by
*me* - each with their own  speciality  ...   no  company  politics,  no
"personalities"  ...   no prima donna ...  no "BS" ...  when we hit, the
competition would know that we've hit - the competition will be  talking
about  their "day that will live in infamy" ...  the day when Beeler and
his team touched down on the runway.

God.  How I love selling.  The sweet smell of a purchase order  and  the
competition high-tailing it with their tail between their legs, never to
return.

I just wish to hell DEC would put that star on my collar and turn me the
hell  'lose  ...  or let me at least TEACH at the 'war college', my God,
I've certainly seen enough war (sales) in my time.

Yours truly,
General Beeler

Re: .0

>    Is it all determined by who you play golf with?
    
It's always been that way.   

You either elect to play the politics game and have the option to climb high
and fast if you win, or you can opt out of the politics game, stay low in the
company, on a comparitively low salary, but at least you are at less of a risk
of having knives stuck in your back, and being used as a stepping stone by some
other player. 

It's the same almost everywhere.  It's called life.

    
    .re strategic
    
    Recently heard at an account team meeting.
    
    The "strategic" account manager, "You mean there is business out
    there.."
    
    sigh...
    Mike Z.

    	I don't think it's as cut and dry as (.7) says. I don't think you
    have to play the political game to get ahead. You'll find people at
    various levels who don't play the game (OK...maybe a little) but got to
    where they are through hard work and competence. These are the people I
    respect and whose opinions I value. I try to align myself with them. If
    these people feel you are doing good work, then there is some reward in
    that. Sometimes this also results in career advancement although not
    necessarily as quickly as those that play the game...but at least you
    can live with yourself. Once in a while, you encounter a group or
    situation where even this is difficult and you see no chance for career
    advancement. Then you must decide whether or not to leave or if there
    are other benefits making it worth staying...I'm sure there are a lot
    of people who don't have the stomach for politics, and I'm one of them.

    re: .6---``The sweet smell of a purchase order and the competition
    high-tailing it with their tail between their legs, never to return.''
    
    	Good imagery.
    
    I don't have any field experience to speak of, but even from my limited
    perspective I know that the replies in this topic are correct.  I don't
    have any patience (or skill) at the political games that appear to be
    necessary to get the "big bucks" jobs, so I remain an individual
    contributor.  
    
    The skills I do have cause my management to occasionally ask me to bail
    them out of a sticky situation, but they don't do that often because my
    price is high: I won't be a project leader in name only, taking the
    responsibility but not the authority.  If I'm going to get the blame if
    a project fails then I insist on control over what the project commits
    to deliver.  If someone else is going to make those decisions then I
    won't be the project leader.
    
    My description is of a product development environment, because that's
    what I do.  I'm sure there are parallel examples elsewhere in Digital.
    My point is that you can refuse to play the game and retain your self
    respect and the respect of your peers, but to do it you have to be
    valuable to your organization and you have to be content never to
    "rise" in the Corporate heirarchy.  From my perspective, that's a
    reasonable tradeoff.
        John Sauter

    Corporate ought to create a group of "hatchet men" to send around to
    the different offices. Have them interview people   to find out who the
    backstabbers and nonperformers are, then fire the worst of them. Do it
    sort of like the old Medieval heads on the wall gambit. Let the word
    get around as to what they did wrong. You'll never get rid of corporate
    politics, but set some basic standards about harming other people in
    the company. If you also make it policy to reward team players, it
    shouldn't be too hard too clean most of this BS up.
    
    General Beeler has my "vote". I see very little evidence of strategic
    selling around here. If a deal looks like its less than 6 figures sales
    won't even get out of bed for it. If a company has no DEC hardware and
     doesn't know us, how are we going to sell them on completely changing
     direction? There is a large regional medical center near here that was
    an IBM shop for years. The clinic portion had some small DEC systems.
    The account grew over the years. Finally the main Hospital had to give
    bids to DEC. I remember rolling the 1st Microvax II into a computer
    room full typically massive IBM gear. Someone made the comment that it
    looked like a pet dog as we rolled it along. I said it looked more like
    a trojan horse to me. The upshot is that if software suppliers can get
    their act together, this site  may soon be a completely DEC shop. 
    	We should target small companies in industries that are likely to
    grow. We should use terminals and PC's to build market share and open
    doors. Sell them at cost it we have to just to build market share. Pick
    out the best field service peolple to maintain them. In short impress
    the hell out of'em. Why not use soem of our cash reserves to lease system? 
    Offer select customers one time offers they can't turn down to Get IN
    THE DOOR! 
    
    johN
       
    
    johN

    I've observed at least two ways that people as a whole are managed or 
    manipulated at Digital (and probably elsewhere).  One way is to carefully 
    discover and embrace truth, to convince people of this truth and to 
    empower them to make correct decisions based on truth.  Another is to 
    introduce or to promote confusion and to situate yourself as the only hope 
    for compromise or resolution.  This empowers you to make the decisions.  
    Both methods seem to work.
    
    Steve

    
    	re.  Info hoarding and politics...
    
    	Take this real life example:
    
    	Persons A and B are put on the same team, to co-develop and to
    	deliver a training course. This effort will take approximately
    	one year.
    
    	Person A develops the entire course. He keeps person B informed
    	of all his progress, asking for but rarely receiving feedback.
    	Person A also shares all information with person B. Person A
    	does all the things necessary to get the course ready, including
    	developing labs, booklists, etc. Person A also makes sure that
    	the hardware lab is stocked and ready for the classes. 
    
    	Person B, meanwhile, has spent his entire year "making contacts"
    	in CSSE and engineering. He gets on distribution lists and gets
    	invited to meetings, and never mentions these or invites Person A.
    	Person B is attracted to anyone with a title like a moth to a lamp.
        The final, hectic week before the course is delivered finds Person
    	B in Marlboro taking a crash course from his CSSE contacts...
    
    	When the course is finally delivered, it is successfully delivered
    	by both Persons A and B. Person B merely has to follow the outline
    	and use the materials developed by Person A.
    
    	Take a guess who got the Instructor Excellence Award (which is not
    	totally objective by a long shot)?
    
    	Politics and info hoarding have been around as long as I can remem-
    	ber. Info hoarding is a sign of insecurity, in my opinion. It gives
    	a mediocre person a sense of power and a real or perceived compet-
    	tetive edge over his teammates and fellow workers. The sad part is
    	that everyone loses with attitudes like that...the REAL competition
    	is outside our doors, not within our ranks. 
    

    re: .13
    
    While I have never experienced a situation like this, I suspect it
    happens a lot.  While it may be unfair to single out person B as
    deserving of an award, person B did contribute to the success of
    the course.  The "making contacts" and so on is sometimes vital to
    keeping the funding for such a long-term project.
        John Sauter

    
    	re .14
    
    	I agree with you that having contacts in other groups is vital
    	to a project's overall success. Contacts made should be intro-
    	duced to other team members, and information should be shared.
    	That is how a team functions most efficiently.
    
    	This was not the case in the situation that I cited. The work-
    	load was shifted onto person A. Person B used his contacts only
    	for his own personal gain.
    
    	I am not exaggerating the instance. Person B did practically *no*
    	work on the course, yet received the excellence award. He reaped
    	the fruits of Person A's labor. The real test of the issue is 
    	whether the project would have better survived the loss of Person
    	A or Person B. The answer is obvious. 
    
    	Enough of this, however..I'm starting to sound like sour grapes. 
    

But aggressive, scheming, backstabbing, selfish, information-hoarding wolves in
3 piece suits are the types that succeed in competing with outside vendors
for marketshare.  It's too bad they don't know how to mopdify many of these
almost innate modes of behavior when it starts to become cannibalistic from
the standpoint of the corporation.  

I'm just an engineer who has been fotunate enough not to have to deal with
anything as petty as information-hoarding and power mongers.  The people
I've worked with are all pulling to build a better product, hopefully to
make DEC more profitable.  And we're all mature enough to share
information, experiences, the glories and sometimes the blames.  But then
again, as I said, I'm in an engineering group.

If I was in the situation described in .0, I would hope that I would be
able to face the problem a little more responsibly than some of the
suggestions made hence.... "Give-In"  "Give-Up"  "Live-With-It".  Even
though it may impare one's chances for advancement, having the courage to
expose unethical behavior and/or pointing a finger now and then might be 
just what the system needs to help clean itself up.  At least it's a
positive action and seems better than rolling over or checking out. 
Using Personnel to examine and/or act on problems might be useful.  That's 
part of why they're there.

Again, I realize that these are high sounding words coming from a contented 
engineer who's understanding of success is very different from that of power 
struggling executives. 

                    
Dave

RE:              <<< Note 1687.14 by SAUTER::SAUTER "John Sauter" >>>

In some organizations this is a normal occurance.  I have never seen
stuff like .12 described, except in movies, until I came to DEC.  In
another organization I worked for I frequently had others take personal
credit for work that I had done.  A humorous incident occured once where
I was working on a customer site for a project.  Most of the people
on the project were working in the DEC office.  Several people told me
that the manager was claiming personal credit for work I had been doing.

I did not believe them until one day the customer's manager burst into
my cubicle laughing. The DEC manager had just told the customer that HE
had personally fixed a problem which I had fixed on-site working
side-by-side with this very same person. 

Anyhow this is not the only incident I have had and I know of other
organizations where this is common.  In places where the management does
any amount of walking around this cannot occur.  Only in places where
the managers do the politics thing do managers believe that person who
can't spell C does programming in C.

It is my observation that a**-hole* gravitate together and that good
people do the same.  I think it is no accident that the organization I
work with has the absolutely highest caliber of people I have ever been
associated with while others in Digital are cess pools.

John

    Re: .16
    
>> I'm just an engineer who has been fotunate enough not to have to deal with
>> anything as petty as information-hoarding and power mongers.  The people
>> I've worked with are all pulling to build a better product, hopefully to
>> make DEC more profitable.  And we're all mature enough to share
>> information, experiences, the glories and sometimes the blames.  But then
>> again, as I said, I'm in an engineering group.
    
    Having previously worked in engineering and now working in the field, 
    I can see a world of difference between the two.  While information
    hoarding and power brokering aren't unknown in the engineering and
    manufacturing world, it is a way of life out here.  Be thankful that
    this behavior hasn't been institutionalized (yet) where you are.
    
    Re: .13
    
    Again, the situation with Instructor A and Instructor B and who gets
    the gold mine and who gets the shaft isn't an isolated incident in my
    mind.  I've seen similiar situations more than once.
    
    While having "contacts" is valuable in any organization, I've seen very
    little of this that isn't related to personal gain.
    

re last few

Manager takes credit

   I had a manager who was very up-front about it.  I quote him, "When
   things go sour, I take the heat.  When they go well, I get the credit."
   I still think that's fair.  What steams me is bosses who blame their
   people for problems.
   
Team (?) member takes credit

   There's an old adage that comes to mind, "It's amazing what you can
   achieve if you don't care who gets the credit."  I recommend it.
   
Company Politics in general

   Middle management is the tax that individual contributors pay to avoid
   the politics.  For the past seven years I have avoided promotions to
   management ranks like the plague, except for a three week period about
   two months ago when I was insane.  Luckily I recovered in time for
   someone else to get the job.
   
   I don't get upset by it any more, guess that means I'm getting old...
   
fwiw,

Dick

 >>    I don't get upset by it any more, guess that means I'm getting old...
                                                                       ^
                                                               wise ___|

There's a lot of truth in what -.2 had to say about working for something
other than personal gain.  A quality rapidly fading in the American work
ethic I'm afraid.


    

I think given the structure of things, it's a no win situation.  Expecting
managers to perceive objectively the relative accomplishments or lack
thereof of a dozen (for argument's sake) employees under them requires 
God-like abilities, unless the manager spends all their time monitoring 
everybody. Assuming that the manager wants to make an objective
rating, then the primary source of information for managers in the
field seems to be second-hand information. The quality of information
about one's performance appears to me to be directly proportional to the 
amount of time spent propagating it, which leads to the sad conclusion
that a person who spends much of their time in self-promotion will
most likely have a better image than the person whose singular goal
is furthering the company's goals through sharing knowledge, or
honest, hard work. 

Another perspective on things is revealed by an article in December's
Scientific American on Bellcore's re-orienting their research labs
around making products, rather than pure knowledge. The article
points out that before they had always looked for a stable of star (self-
directed) performers, now they want a mixture of people, more
team-oriented. 

I see yet another interpretation on .0's statement: I suspect that
many VMS-oriented specialists have felt threatened by the recent
emphasis on UNIX, and the gradual shift in the marketplace
away from  proprietary operating systems. It's like seeing your
hard-won knowledge of the northern night sky made obsolete
by a move to the southern hemisphere.  

Not that I like information gatekeepers. Take the issue of pictures
of our products. Say you work in the field and need an illustration
that you see in a manual. I've made my position clear in other
notesfiles that the way drawings of our products are maintained,
a long gauntlet of seemingly undocumented links stands between
you and an online copy of a drawing that you need. While each
illustration does have a part number, it's taken me years to discover
the meaning of these part numbers. Even now that I know what
they mean, I can't just look up the drawing in any kind of standard
way without negotiating with all the parties involved. This kind of 
important data should be shared throughout the company rather 
than hoarded. The only thing I can add to what I've already said on 
this is that people who don't share their information,  will see
the similar information propagated to the network independantly
by others who value sharing, and thereby lose any degree of
originality, sourcing or control over their "hoard".

	erik

    ... to be
                           "Idiots in Explosive Suits"
    
    
    Hey I can dream, can't I?  :-)

Odious experts chew up expensive suites?

	naw, not a hammerhead.

    re .13
    
    If person B recognizes and appreciates person A's contribution to his
    "success", which consisted in allowing him the leisure to pursue a political
    career, He will return the favor. Unfortunately, more than likely he
    will realize A knows the truth and will likely distance himself. 
    	I still think  that a team of executioners given the job of
    investigating such complaints would go a long way toward preventing
    such abuses. I can see it now, "hey B, the Men in Black are asking
    about you"...
    
    johN

re .25

   Self-promotion need not be quite so blatant or unprofessional.
   
   Most people are asked to provide regular (monthly?) reports on their
   activities.  Even if you aren't, start writing and submitting them
   anyway.  Monthly reports aren't just self-promotion but an attempt to put
   all your activities, those that went well and those that didn't into
   perspective.  Here is where you have a change to identify problems that
   repeatedly affect your performance.
   
   Try it, you'll like it.
   
Dick

re:                     <<< Note 1687.25 by XCUSME::MACINTYRE >>>

>      Glitz and press clippings.  I think it stinks.
    
Well Marv, I can understand your reluctance but, on the otherhand how do
you propose that your manager keep up with the kudos you get?
I have gotten some and have always asked the sender to copy my manager when 
they send it.

You may not like it but, "Thats life".
If you don't promote yourself to your manager, nobody else will.....

- George

    Keep a mail folder called "job".  Whenever you get anything that
    remotely resembles a kudo, put it in the folder.  When your performance
    review comes around, forward the entire folder to your manager.
    
    It's simple and reasonably low key for the self-promotionally
    challenged.

Re: .6
    
>I remember one time when I could have used a disclosure and won a  sale.
>A strategic decision was made to NOT use a disclosure - I lost the sale.
>Best sale I ever lost.  I was against Prime and they won.

>Turns out that the system performance was so bad ...   their  reputation
>went  to  hell  in  a  hand  basket.  

General Beeler - Are you trying to say that the strategic decision was made 
because you knew that their system performance was going to be so bad ... and
our system performance would have done the job?

What would have happened if the system performance was SO GOOD, that the 
customer decided to sole source everything through Prime?  

After their reputation went to hell in a hand basket, did you go in and sell
them exactly what would have won the sale in the first place?

Why make the customer suffer?  Aren't we selling our products to help our
customers solve their problems?  If I were the customer, and I found out you
let me suffer, when you could have solved my problem in the first place, I'd 
probably never buy from you again.
    

	"I LOVE the smell of sales in the morning;
	 it smells like VICTORY!"

			-- Gen'l Bubba



	MM

    re: .29

    Long story ... basically we knew that we were taking a chance, but,
    decided to NOT go the non-disclosure and take the risk.  AS IT TURNED
    OUT it just happened to work in our favor ... no ... I damned sure
    wanted the sale but fate smiled upon us in somewhat of a perverse way.

    This was 10 years ago ... a VERY complicated sale ... the guy *really*
    wanted Prime and the handwriting was on the wall ... the personalities
    and politics were absolutely PHENOMENAL ... don't run onto many of
    those as of late ...

    Jerry

    Re: .31
    
    Thanks for the clarification.
    
    You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em.....or
    something like that.

    re: .1
    "it wasn't like this 10 years ago"
    
    Mmmmm... read "The Ultimate Entrepreneur" by Rifkin and Harrar to get
    another view of that statement.
    
    It is the way of big communities (some of which are business
    corporations).  Digital is no better and no worse than most other major
    high-tech corporations; in the last 29 years I have worked for IBM,
    RCA, Aerospace and Digital.  The only difference is between big
    companies and small companies; in small companies, there is more of a
    team approach and thus less motivation/opportunity to qirrel away
    information from your peers.
    
    Sad isn't it ?
    
    John

    re -1
    
    "squirrel" = "qirrel"
    
    Oops
    
    John
    

Ahhh Gi'day...�

    I saw   a  nice  note  in  the  Guardian  the  last  week  about  IBM's
    restructuring.   After  talking  about  DEC mumble mumble in a previous
    small article the next article started off:

	IBM, a computer company...

    Anent .30: Your apologies are owed to John Milus, who wrote the
    screenplay.

Re .18: I don't know what part of Upstate NY you work in, but my experience of 
the last two years is that there is a wealth of information held by any number 
of people ALL of whom are pretty open to sharing that information. In my 14 
years at Digital, I've seen very rare cases of the kind of positive sharing and 
teamwork I see here in this part of the field. And from what I can see, we 
don;t have time or energy to waste it on playing politics or stabbing anyone 
in the back.

Regards,

Jim

    For those of you who genuinely have trouble keeing your managers
    informed of kudos, please remember:
    
    	IF YOU DON'T BLOW YOUR OWN HORN, SOMEONE ELSE WILL USE IT FOR A
    	SPITOON!!
    
    Karen
    
    PS:  The quote is from "The 59 Second Employee, or How To Stay One
    	 Second Ahead Of Your One-Minute Manager"
    

    The LAST thing i need is another thank-you from two VPs getting to
    my management.  I am grateful that i could prove i earned the kudo
    on my own time late at night AFTER i had put in more than 8 hours
    on the work they get credit for!  If i ever do anything to help
    anyone out, PLEASE keep it to yourself!!!   mwr