Conference 7.286::digital

    I don't know about Tony Robbins, but I know that on one Excellence
    cruise I was on a few years back, DEC brought in one of these
    "motivational speakers".  This gentleman, though, wasn't simply talking
    about "personal power" or whatever TR hypes on TV; he was dealing in
    full-fledged New Age theology.  I was not surprised to see that he was
    hawking tapes and books on "past life regression" and other things.
    
    [Personally, I object to having a company-hired speaker who tries to
    "reorient" you to his religious viewpoints (yes, I consider
    reincarnation to be a religious issue).]
    
    Anyway, I could easily see some function within Digital which called on
    Tony Robbins to do some one-day seminar for some special meeting
    somewhere.  Did it happen for certain?  I can't say.
    
    -- Russ

    
    RE "full-fledged New Age theology"...
    
    If we're thinking of the same guy (marketed as Anthony Robbins here
    in the UK) I'd also be interested to know if DEC have employed him.
    
    My understanding is that he specialises in NLP (neuro-linguistic
    programming) which I have seen embraced under the New Age banner
    before now, but I haven't seen anything linking him to other
    New Age branches. In fact, what I've read of his includes a
    discussion of NLP .v. psychotherapy/psychiatry and he seemed
    to suggest that spending time and energy delving into your past
    (this life or any others) wasn't particularly productive 
    especially as NLP could fix current problems pretty quickly,
    whatever their origin.
    
    Or am I just thinking of the wrong guy?
    'gail

    RE: .2 
    	That seems to be the guy.  In the article, his technique is called
    "Neuro-Associative Conditioning" which is a registered trademark.  He
    has a couple of books out, the newest being, "Awaken the Giant Within".
    He tries to associate pain with those things you want to change/remove
    from your life. Here's one of the things he suggest doing if you are
    concerned about being overweight taken from a quote from the article,
    "Next time you find yourself in a restaurant overeating, jump up in the
    middle of the room, point at your own chair and scream at the top of
    your lungs, 'PIG!'".  
    
    	Seems a little strange to me.  One of the things he does and tries
    to get you to do during his one week seminar in Hawaii is to walk on
    coals!  Supposedly, if you can do that you can do anything.  At least
    that is the attitude he says it is supposed to create.
    
    	I was wondering if what he did for DEC was available in a
    'self-help' type course or if it was a one time only course that he was
    brought in for.
    
    Rod.
    

    
    This would explain the behavior of some of the brain-dead management 
    I've seen at DEC.  I've noticed a *LOT* of ego exceeding intelligence
    lately.
    
    Tony Robbins philosophy is what gave us Michael Milken, The Donald and
    the rest of the selfish-yuppie-success-nik slime that are the *TRUE* 
    cause of the current recession.
    
    This is immoral and if it represents the new DEC I think it's time 
    I leave.
    
    -Ed
    

    I too purchased the "Personal Power" tapes, but returned them for two
    reasons:
    
    1) I wasn't impressed with them.
    
    2) I read an article in the LA Times about Tony Robbins.  Seems he is
    involved in quite a few lawsuits brought against him by people who
    purchased exclusing distributorship rights (or something along those
    lines).  If I recall correctly, the lawsuits were for unfair business
    practices.
    
    BTW - Tony Robbins lives in Del Mar, California, in a lavish
    multi-million dollar estate.  And get this, I'm not sure if he's turned
    30 yet.

re: .3,

>    "Next time you find yourself in a restaurant overeating, jump up in the
>    middle of the room, point at your own chair and scream at the top of
>    your lungs, 'PIG!'".  

    	I might try that, except I'd be afraid that I might later decide
    to file harrassment charges against myself if I did.

    				    -davo

Does anyone remember the movie _Putney Swope_?  Most of these high-priced
consultants remind me of the guy flown in by helicopter at the start of
the movie (to address the BOD).
								paul

    If being able to walk on hot coals is "proof" of Robbins's
    claims they must be weak claims indeed.  He sounds like
    a charlatan.
    
    You don't need "positive" thinking to be able to walk on coals.
    You need the right kind of coals at about the right temperature
    and moist feet.  Nature does the rest, whether you feel 
    "positive" about it or not.
    
    When it is raining and I use an umbrella my positive thinking
    keeps my head a bit dryer...
    
    This is not to say that Positive Thinking has no benefit.  Only
    that those who take perfectly natural phenomena as "proof"
    of some claim (if you aren't thinking positively your feet
    might get burned) aren't exactly being straight with you.
    And if they're hosing you about this, how much credibility
    is left?
    
    Robbins sounds like another one of those guys who gets rich
    telling everyone how to get rich.  The secret: sell people
    your ideas on getting rich.
    
    Joel
    

    Re: .-1
    
    The technical comments in .-1 about walking on coals are correct. I
    suspect, however, that what Tony Robbins would say is actually doing it
    is a measure of self confidence and that is the substantive issue.
    
    I'm neither endorsing or condemming the program.  (I don't know
    anything about it except the bits I've seen on TV.) Instead of walking
    on coals, there are probably a lot of other things that would have the
    same psychological result, like parachute jumping for instance.
    
    Fran Tarkenton is also part of the program, and I know he has spoken at
    DEC.

    I hope everyone realizes that when they buy a self-help type tape or
    book,they are helping to sustain somebody's lavish lifestyle. If
    you think I'm knocking these motivational type guys,you're 100% right.
    I personally believe that if you can't motivate yourself,listening to
    one of thesse quacks won't help you.
    
    Ken

    Oh, i dunno.  I recently bought Ron Zemke's "Working with Jerks".
    It was real helpful.  The bad news is, he identifies at least
    eight different types of 'jerks'.  The good news is, i only fit
    three of the profiles!!   8^)   mwr

    
    RE: age.
    Yes - as I understand it this guy is only 26-28ish...
    
    And yes re: walking on coals - in the preface to "Unlimited Power"
    (his only book released here, I think) he discusses this and explains
    that it's an easy and spectacular demonstration of the fact that
    most limitations to what you can do are in your mind....umm...
    Obviously it can be done (for sound physical reasons) but many
    people tell themselves that *they* "can't" do it and it's
    the mindset that he claims to adjust.
    
    If you've got self-motivation and self-esteem that's great, but
    many people don't have those things (for a variety of reasons)
    and if by any chance this guy can help build those qualities in
    individuals I wouldn't call him a charlatan for it.
    (of course *proving* that he can do this is another issue).
    
    He does, however, drop in my opinion if he really is fighting lawsuits.
    Surely messy business practice would be unnecessary if he has a
    genuinely good "product"?
    Or maybe I'm just being naive about this.
    
              

    If you fall for Tony Robbins crap (sarcasm on high) then you would
    really love Jim and Tammy Baker, Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Jones. As
    mentioned previously he is there for one reason only, to SUCKER
    everyone he can and to support his life style which he has come
    accustomed to. If one has a half a brain then you get HIGH on yourself
    and just do it. One doesn't need a pencil nosed GEEK to get your
    motivatioal goals stirring do you???
    	regards
    	IMHO
    	John

    To follow a rathole - I recall reading somewhere that the trick
    with fire-walking is to do it boldy (and confidently, I suppose
    that implies).  Too much hesitation and you get sizzled.
    Like grasping nettles!

    There is a H lot to recommend NLP, based O as it is on work T by Milton
    Erickson.  NLP iS an amalgam of activE listening on the part X of the
    counselor, Hypnosis, subliminals, and 'anchOring' of healThy behavior.
    Tony RobbinS may or may not bE a charlatan, and DEC at this X point may
    or may not H benefit from exposure tO these concepts.  However, The real
    point to me iS whether the company should E sponsor personal growth X at
    ALL.
    
    karl

    re: .17
    
    not sure i understand the significance of Your embEdded phraSe.
    Perhaps an aLlusion to subliminal mEssAgeS of somE sort?
    
    D:a-v)e

    ... dumb ol' me, I thought it was the weirdest sort of line noise I
    ever saw...  guess i'm not the suspicious sort, like _you_ must be! :-)

    	He has a bunch of law suits against him and his eight companies.
    According to the article, he had 7 suits filed against him and one of
    his companies with the common theme being "alleged breach of contract
    and deceptive trade practices.  The problem is the Robbins
    distributorship program." One guy, Charles Chandler Davis, who is a
    Dallas lawyer had filed 4 suits saying "there was no real product to
    sell." There is another suit filed in Atlanta about Robbins making claims
    of potential profits that didn't turn out.  
    
    	As to his age, he is now 31 and is worth $50 million. He says he
    has helped (besides DEC) the Army, CIA, Martin-marietta and others to
    become more efficient.
    
    	As to the people that endorse him, there are a lot of well known
    people who do such as, Tarkenton, Pat Schroeder, Peter Guber (head of
    Sony entertainment), Pat Riley (coach of NY Knicks), and a lot of the
    other self help promoters.
    
    	I have listened to a couple of his tape from the library and so far
    I am not overly impressed.  It seems like the whole side of the tape
    was taken up by a lot of unnecessary talk to present just one item of
    real concern.  I will have to listen to a couple more to decide for
    myself if he really is on to something other than milking people for
    their money.
    
    Rod.
    

    So far I haven't seen a response from anyone who's actually gone
    through one of his courses -- I haven't either.  But I do know that
    there are many people within Digital who have.  In fact, the former
    Central Region was reportedly planning to send every sales rep in that
    area through his training (heard from a very good source).
    
    I have my own personal reasons for being suspicious of NLP, having been
    subjected to NLP experimentation by a very manipulative ex-boyfriend. 
    I have also found others who are drawn to it to be on the manipulative
    side.  NLP started out as a tool for therapists (with the assumption
    that the therapist was more clear and wise than the patient and could
    help the patient through a bit of therapeutic manipulation).  I do
    believe, having read up on some of it and having taken an introductory
    course, that good things can be done with it.  Like any other power
    (nuclear or personal) it can be used constructively or destructively,
    ethically or not.  Sometimes it's just not so clear.
    
    Anyone who has been through one of Robbins' courses care to comment?  I
    know someone who went to a short course based on Robbins' stuff where
    they broke boards with their bare hands (vs. walking on coals).  He was
    very impressed.  Sometimes it takes a physical demonstration of going
    beyond one's preconceived limits to really recognize that we do put
    limits on ourselves (could be done through Outward Bound, jumping out
    of planes, etc. -- used to be you could do that through drugs, no? ;'} )
    
    Leslee

    Just FYI, but I saw an advert for this guy on one of the local (MA)
    cable channels this weekend. Don't remember much of it but DEC was
    clearly mentioned.

    Since when was a law suit filed a sign of much? An awful  are filed
    out of envy. Most of the rest out of greed... In the last decade 250,000
    additional  lawyers have joined the fray, so its a wonder everybody
    with money doesn't get sued just so the lawyers can keep busy.
    	I don't think much of Tony Robbins or NLP(do you know what kind a
    creep created it?), but Barnum will always have successors.
                                                                   
    johN

Re: .16 and a couple of others on firewalking

To continue the rathole... having been to a firewalk and participated in
one several times (unconnected to Tony Robbins), I can tell you that
the scientific explanations I've heard do not explain the phenominon.
And *I* can't explain it using a scientific paradigm.

During the walk, the coals from hardwood felt unpleasantly hot standing
several feet away.

I have walked myself, but did not pause in the walk. However,
I have watched a bare foot (not mine 8*) step on a red hot coal, remain
there for a full second, and be lifted up, and the coal was still glowing
red. Any moisture sufficient to protect the foot would have dimmed the coal.
I suggest you look at your watch and contemplate your foot on a large red
hot coal for a complete second.

I recommend personally observing or participating before putting
faith in scientific explanations, especially from scientists who haven't
been to a firewalk.

I've heard an Einstein quote that said "I did not arrive at the fundamental
theory of the universe through my rational mind."

    re: Tony Robbins info
    
    For those of you in the viewing area for the syndicated TV tabloid
    "Hardcopy", I just saw a commercial saying something like:
    
    	Why has Tony Robbins' family and home-town newspaper turned against
    	him?  Find out Wednesday on Hardcopy!
    
    Trash info-mercials come to trash TV!  (The ratings should go through
    the roof!  8^)
    
    -- Russ

    Re: .22
    
    Are we paying Tony to mention DEC or vice-versa.  Also, I'd love to see
    how much we paid him for his "consulting".  No doubt the fee exceeds
    our yearly salaries by a big sum.
    
    _Ed_who's_totaly_disgusted
    

RE: .26
    
>    Are we paying Tony to mention DEC or vice-versa.

I doubt any money changes hands.  He is merely giving us as a reference -- it
helps to promote his image as a "master" of his craft.

We play the same game when we drop names about some of our big sales wins.

-- Russ

    RE: .25
    
    	If anyone is interested in Tony's problems with his home town
    newspaper, the hardcopy story is on Boston channel 7 today at 5PM.

    Time magazine did a short piece on Tony in the *California* issue...
    
    "DOING WELL BY FEELING GOOD"
    
    Anthony Robbins, 31, is the latest California guru to get rich by
    helping people feel good.  Raised is a struggling family from Glendora,
    Calif., the 6-ft. 7-in. Robbins went to work for a human development
    lecturer after high-school.  By 1983 he was running his own Date with
    Destiny seminars, but was also overweight and "totally depressed".  He
    decided his life needed an overhaul and soon was urging others to
    change theirs.  To glean his secrets, customers pay $170 for a one-day
    seminar and $5000 for a two week Hawaiian program.  Sample message:
    "The meeting of preparation with opportunity generates the offspring
    we call luck."
       Last year Robbins grossed $50 million, enough for a Del Mar castle
    and helicopter.  "I'm proud of my abundant life-style," he boasts.  "I
    work 22 hours a day, but to me it isn't work."
    

    
    FYI..
    
    The Salem and Merrimack libraries carry both sets of Tony Robbins
    tapes.
    
    Listen to them yourself and form your own opinion. Mine is that 
    some of his ideas are worthwhile and some I don't agree with.
    
    Take what information makes sense to you and discard what doesn't.
    
    -Doug

    
    Re: -1
    
    It makes me sick to think DEC spent money on dreck like this!!
    
    -Ed
    

Returning to the far more interesting topic of firewalking ...
"red hot coals" radiate a great amount of heat, but they don't conduct
heat well, nor do they contain a great amount of heat: it is generated
continuously by combustion.  Consider a hot sauna: you can sit there
on a wooden bench without fear, but would be badly injured by sitting
on a metal bench.

Martin.

    Still doesn't make me want to try it!!

>I recommend personally observing or participating before putting
>faith in scientific explanations, especially from scientists who haven't
>been to a firewalk.

		As a firewalker, I second this suggestion, before
	dismissing it so easily - know of what you speak.

		Angeline

Or a fire shampoo.

I'd assume self-confidence works under all conditions.

    Actually I saw an investigation into fire walking on TV. It seems to be
    the speed at which you do it is critical. Walking across at a slow rate
    causes burnt feet. They had this guy who was convinced that he could
    walk across at any speed but found a lot of good excuses for not doing
    it slowly.

    Jamie.

    Well, I did take one of the seminars on NLP.  Mine was called "New
    Choices - A NLP Introductory Workshop" offered by Consultants for
    Change out of San Diego.  Think this was in 1985 or so.  I just pulled
    out the handouts and I don't see Tony Robbins mentioned anywhere!  Not
    as a founder or a co-founder (which most of the people listed are
    referred to as)  From what I can remember, I thought some of the
    material was interesting and useful (for me, not as part of my job in
    counseling employees) and that the rest was a bit far out for my taste. 
    And, no, we did not have to walk on anything other than industrial
    strength carpeting in MKO1.
    

    I heard that Tony Robbins will be in Waltham live soon (January?) and
    on video in Marlboro in January as well. I wonder if this competition
    explains the lawsuits his franchisees generated.
    	He took off on NLP as originally developed by Bandler and Grinder
    at Stanford. It's good stuff. John Bradshaw uses it, as well as Silva
    and others. I was a little put of by the tone of Robbins book
    "unlimited Power" but it could be just my style. I'm not up to walking
    on hot coals.         Ron Hill
    

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